Hasan Minhaj

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Minuture Mouse.

[3] I'm here.

[4] Manick a bad man. It's me. Today we have a really great guest, Hassan Minaj.

[5] Yes.

[6] You probably became familiar with him on The Daily Show.

[7] He had an incredible stand -up special on Netflix.

[8] Homecoming King.

[9] Homecoming King.

[10] It's incredible.

[11] And now he has Patriot Act on Netflix, which I'm genuinely a fan of prior to even chatting with him.

[12] He is just incredibly smart and funny and has a most interesting story.

[13] We really liked him.

[14] Yeah, we did.

[15] Now for some exciting news.

[16] Guys, we're coming for you in the Midwest.

[17] We're coming.

[18] Get ready.

[19] Chrysler Pacifica is going to present the armchair expert live in the Midwest.

[20] Tickets are going to go on sale Friday, May 10th at 10 a .m. local time.

[21] Are you seated?

[22] June 21st, Detroit, at the first.

[23] Fox Theater.

[24] June 23rd, Cleveland at the Key Bank State Theater.

[25] June 28, Chicago at the Chicago Theater.

[26] And rounding out the tour, June 29th in Minneapolis at the Orphium Theater.

[27] We are so excited.

[28] We're going to be driving to these locations in my pimped out Pacifica, which is going to add a real second layer of fun to the whole project.

[29] Everyone will get to see what you've been talking about.

[30] Summertime in the Midwest.

[31] I hope you'll want to sign up.

[32] up.

[33] Again, tickets go on sale Friday, May 10th at 10 a .m. You can go to our website and follow a link to buy those tickets.

[34] www.

[35] www .armchairexpertpod .com.

[36] Please enjoy Hassan Minaj.

[37] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[38] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[39] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[40] Oh, I might have fucked it up because I was recording with the girls yesterday.

[41] You're so loud in my ears.

[42] Oh, you did a podcast with the kids?

[43] Yeah, we were here yesterday.

[44] I have two little girls, and we were fucking around looking at what's new this week.

[45] What are the ages?

[46] Four and six.

[47] Oh, wow.

[48] You're two?

[49] I have a baby daughter.

[50] She'd just turn one.

[51] Just turned one.

[52] Yeah.

[53] It's awesome.

[54] Now, I did some fast math, as I like to do.

[55] Sure.

[56] And I noticed she got married in January.

[57] yet that child was born in April.

[58] No, so what I did.

[59] Oh, okay.

[60] Let's hear this.

[61] No, what, uh, I got married to January, but we've been married for years.

[62] Oh, yeah.

[63] Oh, I thought you got married in 18.

[64] I thought you were talking.

[65] I mean, I'll give you another real detail.

[66] According to Wikipedia, the date of my daughter is off, which is great.

[67] I love that.

[68] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[69] The internet doesn't need to know the birth certificate.

[70] I couldn't agree more.

[71] You know what I mean?

[72] Yeah, it's nice.

[73] Until they run for office and they have to prove their citizenship.

[74] You know how that is.

[75] When my wife gave birth to.

[76] our first daughter.

[77] We were at the hospital.

[78] And you know, you went through this.

[79] You at some point fill out the birth certificate, like you declare what the name's going to be.

[80] Yeah.

[81] And like two hours after we did that, we got an email from Kristen's publicist saying they just announced it.

[82] Oh, oh my God.

[83] Yeah.

[84] So how did it get out?

[85] Exactly.

[86] I don't know who they pay, but is that weird for you?

[87] Yeah, I hate it.

[88] Yeah.

[89] I'm like protective of my family.

[90] And yeah, I hate it.

[91] Yeah.

[92] And it's a great indicator of like what it's what you're up against it's like oh the baby's 12 hours old yeah and somehow they've already infiltrated and found out her name i mean dax you're a hashtag couple's goals it's very stressful for me it's a lot they're couples goals you guys are instagram sure uh fodder let me ask you would that stress you out yes 100 % yeah i'm i married i married my college sweetheart so it's one of those things where you know beena my wife is very polar opposite of what i i sort of do and all that stuff and in in a in a good way so yes and no right she's super smart she has her doctorate degree yeah uh but no no a phd phd okay she lets me know okay so she has a phd a phd in health management health management and she is currently working in some capacity on homelessness yeah right so she previously worked at the VA over here oh in Westwood yeah so they started and this is just for the record this is pre read all this insane sort of crazy stuff that was going on in the news.

[93] But she worked there.

[94] Lucky for me. I had no idea what happened.

[95] Was there like a sex trafficking ring going in there?

[96] But it's a sort of classic sort of like government bureaucracy.

[97] Not enough patients are being seen and all that sort of stuff.

[98] My mom also works at the VA over at Mather up in Sacramento.

[99] You know, they're dealing with the same sort of stuff.

[100] So you married your mom?

[101] I married mine.

[102] Almost exactly, yeah.

[103] Almost exactly, I guess.

[104] In terms of occupation, yeah, sure.

[105] Yeah.

[106] in their personality at all?

[107] They're different, but they're both Indian women.

[108] They're beautiful, brown women.

[109] They grew up in vastly different cultures, so naturally they're probably much different personality -wise.

[110] But those kind of core traits of a human, do they share any of those?

[111] I'll lead.

[112] Yeah, sure.

[113] So my mom was a workaholic.

[114] I adore her.

[115] She's my favorite human on the planet.

[116] Very loving, very generous, a capacity to nurture like you've never seen.

[117] Yeah.

[118] And that's my wife.

[119] She's a workaholic and is very generous and has a capacity to nurture.

[120] Unwittingly while it was happening.

[121] Do you think it says binary is, I know this is a running take that you have on the podcast.

[122] Do you think it's that binary that, you know, Freudian and all that sort of stuff?

[123] By all means, please push back, Monica.

[124] Thank you.

[125] I always do.

[126] That is my position here.

[127] But you generally push back in the after, the back end of the podcast.

[128] I want you coming in an act.

[129] Thank you for saying that.

[130] Look at him rising up.

[131] I know.

[132] I'm so glad you're here.

[133] We've been waiting for you for so long.

[134] She's been outnumbered.

[135] It'll always be at the end of the podcast and then I'll hear Monica and she'll go, Crystalia, how did I feel about it?

[136] And I'm like, fuck that.

[137] Come in and four and tell him what it is.

[138] I know, but I feel like I'm being rude if I do that.

[139] 1 ,000 % let him know what time it is.

[140] Why?

[141] You're right.

[142] Oh, my God.

[143] I didn't know he's coming in here to lead a mutiny.

[144] I feel powerful.

[145] But, I mean, look, if we're going to do a podcast, that's entirely driven by a take that has no data behind it.

[146] We're just going off the top of the down.

[147] So I don't know.

[148] So look, to answer your question, what I will say is that I don't think it's as binary.

[149] There are things that they have in common, but then there's things that they have that are completely not in common at all.

[150] But what I am attracted to and both of them, that's weird.

[151] What I love about both of them.

[152] It's even hotter in my mom, but I am attracted to both.

[153] Yeah.

[154] But what I love most, and I've always been attracted to in her, is that she genuinely, is like an empath she wants to make other people's lives better that's just like her biggest love language and if she sees someone struggling she will just go out of her way to help them right and one of the things i admire most about her and it's weird me being a performer people love my wife even at the office people love her more than they love me well i'm in the same club yeah yeah but that was really but okay so look i'm not i'm i am in no way positioning it as binary.

[155] Even a bigger overarching theme of this podcast is gray.

[156] I don't believe in black and white.

[157] I don't believe that the left's got it right or the right's got it right.

[158] You know, I do think the world is existing within the 80 percent between those shoulders, but it is fun to think about, I think people sometimes mistake love for familiarity, which I do think is pretty common.

[159] Like people will meet someone and it just feels right and it feels like love, but what it really feels like is some kind of familiarity.

[160] Yeah.

[161] And safety.

[162] Is that wrong if that's healthy?

[163] No, not at all.

[164] If it's unhealthy, I totally understand if it's wrong.

[165] Yeah.

[166] No, I don't think it's wrong at all.

[167] Like I now love listening to NPR in the morning because it reminds me of when my dad used to drop me off to school and he would listen to NPR.

[168] It's Monday, September 24th.

[169] Yeah, it's comforting.

[170] And it's just sort of this like white noise of.

[171] Yeah.

[172] I don't know.

[173] Mine is New Age jazz.

[174] My father love New Age jazz.

[175] And if I'm just like scanning through and I land on the wave for a minute, I'll go, yeah, yeah, let's just hang here for a moment.

[176] Yeah.

[177] It feels safe.

[178] Are you close with your parents then?

[179] Yes, I love my parents.

[180] You are.

[181] You're close with them.

[182] Yeah, yeah.

[183] I mean, we had some budding of heads as I, as, you know, Simba was trying to leave Pride Rock.

[184] Sure.

[185] But then, as I sort of solidify.

[186] Malica, you know it.

[187] I mean, you have Dacey parents, right?

[188] I mean, I think my parents are much cooler than a lot of other Indian parents.

[189] Oh, they're cool, auntie, uncle.

[190] I remember those.

[191] Well, my mom grew up here.

[192] Okay.

[193] Oh, wow.

[194] Yeah, that's wild.

[195] She came over when she was sick.

[196] So when we water.

[197] I, by the way, love Homecoming Kings so much.

[198] Thank you.

[199] It's her favorite thing in the world.

[200] Yes.

[201] Wow.

[202] And my wife's, my wife's head over heels in love with you.

[203] That's crazy.

[204] Yes.

[205] That's wild.

[206] I watched it and I immediately text it.

[207] I was like, you have to watch this immediately.

[208] You text to your mom?

[209] No, Kristen.

[210] Well, Kristen is my mom also.

[211] That's weird.

[212] Well, hold on, hold on.

[213] This is so bizarre.

[214] Kristen's also her baby.

[215] So don't think that there's any kind of power dynamic.

[216] That's true.

[217] Kristen's also her baby and her mom.

[218] So there's a lot of titles.

[219] I've shared a lot of roles.

[220] I haven't been in Hollywood for like five years.

[221] I've been gone for a long time.

[222] This is what you're missing.

[223] It's wild.

[224] Yeah, it's crazy.

[225] What a time to be alive.

[226] Go ahead.

[227] She's my wife and my baby and my mom.

[228] You guys really do live in the gray on this podcast.

[229] Anyway, so loved it.

[230] I thought it was so exactly spot on and beautifully done.

[231] It was really, really good.

[232] And my mom grew up here.

[233] So I feel like the story you were telling was a little bit more like her story as opposed to mine.

[234] Like I'm a little bit.

[235] A little bit more.

[236] So your mom was like, do improv.

[237] That's cool.

[238] UCB 101.

[239] Good for you.

[240] She was not.

[241] Let's sweep the scene.

[242] But they were like, just do.

[243] Just do what you're going to do.

[244] Do what you want to do.

[245] That's awesome.

[246] With a mix, with it was still a nice healthy.

[247] I mean, they were worried about me being far away.

[248] I think that was the main thing.

[249] And they wanted me to have like financial security.

[250] But they weren't like, you got to be a doctor.

[251] You got to be this.

[252] You got to be this.

[253] They were like, just make some money so that you're fine.

[254] Yeah.

[255] And I don't really care how you do that.

[256] But this looks like a hard way to do that.

[257] do it.

[258] So that scares us.

[259] Right.

[260] But now they're so happy.

[261] Yeah.

[262] Really?

[263] Yeah.

[264] That's great.

[265] Yeah.

[266] They came and saw our live show in Chicago.

[267] Oh my God.

[268] Chicago theater, 3 ,500 people.

[269] Yeah, it was special.

[270] And when Monica comes out, the place goes fucking bonkers.

[271] I mean, it's three minutes before I can calm everyone down and proceed with the show.

[272] Is this podcast the most like enriching fun thing that you've done?

[273] Oh, by a landslide.

[274] What got you to do it?

[275] Because you are the IMDB Pro, star meter, Dax Shepard.

[276] What made you go?

[277] What made, do you have shown?

[278] I don't know.

[279] Was that a burner or is that good?

[280] No. I mean that in a very, in a complimentary way.

[281] Oh, okay.

[282] Thank you.

[283] You and Kristen are tentpole pieces of Hollywood.

[284] Okay.

[285] Do you know what I'm saying?

[286] Well, yeah.

[287] Sure, sure.

[288] You're a commodity that trades on the market.

[289] I understand that there is a perception of that.

[290] Of course, in my life, I don't feel like I'm, I feel like a 12 -year -old from Michigan.

[291] Sure.

[292] That's what I feel like.

[293] So, no, I never looked in the mirror and been like, look at this fucking tent pole staring back at me. But that indicates what's on the wall here, to the listeners who can't see, this is a cutout, a manual cutout that our parents would do, People Magazine.

[294] Shitting on me. Do you know what I mean?

[295] Those of you guys who can't see this because this is a audio thing is Dak straight up just took off his shoe.

[296] I know.

[297] And just starts massaging his foot.

[298] And it's just holding his shoe up for no reason at all.

[299] That means I got really sucked in, by the way, because I don't even know why I'm holding this shoe.

[300] But let's go even deeper.

[301] I wore the shoes specifically to impress you.

[302] To impress me. Which I told you.

[303] It's an Air Jordan.

[304] Yeah, it's Air Jordan.

[305] And I noticed that you like shoes.

[306] I love sneakers, yeah.

[307] Yeah.

[308] So I was like, oh, I'm going to try to connect with Asan.

[309] You are connecting with it.

[310] And I even wore a color keyed watch.

[311] So, you know, I got a whole theme going.

[312] Anyways, back to this.

[313] Back to why I have a podcast.

[314] I found the long form experience so liberating because I'm so used to being on talk shows where I've got to be super.

[315] The seven minutes.

[316] And what are the three stories?

[317] Yes.

[318] And crush, fucking crush in seven minutes.

[319] You got to be funny, man. Yeah.

[320] And then the YouTube link will just say, Dax Shepherd has a nipple ring.

[321] And you're like, what is this?

[322] Yes, zero context.

[323] Just zero context.

[324] Anywho, I really liked the response of people who would listen to those.

[325] And I thought, oh, I would like to do this all the time.

[326] What's also beautiful about the medium is nuance, which I feel like has been lost in discourse.

[327] Oh, yeah.

[328] That a lot of the things that we define ourselves by are very, very complicated and wants in our own experiences and yeah a two -hour conversation will allow you to sort of see the complexities yeah someone's experience let's put it this way we've we've never had a guest on here where the feedback wasn't always um I like them so much more now oh really that's great and I think fundamentally if you get to actually learn about a human being yeah we like each other it's like encouraging that's been the most interesting thing is after everyone leaves no matter what you like came in with your preconceptions you leave and you're like everyone's nice like everyone's a real person and is nice everyone's scared and everyone's insecure and everyone's trying and everyone you know like it just gets i don't know like very yeah and the media portrays people in such a specific way with such hard boundaries and you come in and you're like oh you're just a regular person right like you i'm curious about this because monica and i have had a few conversations about this I'm a huge Mindy Kaling fan.

[329] And what, Mindy, Mindy, come on.

[330] Come on the show.

[331] Come on the show, Mindy.

[332] I know.

[333] So I heard her on Fresh Air one time.

[334] Yeah.

[335] And every time Terry Gross was trying to kind of steer a question into specifically it being about her ethnicity or her role in show business has that ethnicity.

[336] Sure.

[337] I perceived it.

[338] Maybe not for her.

[339] But for me, I was hearing someone who just wanted, like, I don't.

[340] I don't want the conversation to be about that.

[341] I want it to just be, I'm a good showrunner.

[342] Let's talk about that.

[343] I understand that desire.

[344] Like, I get it.

[345] Yes, I'm brown and you're white.

[346] Yeah.

[347] I can see what that's being, that's frustrating.

[348] But I also, as a listener, was like, no, that's a really relevant part of the story.

[349] That's one of the things that makes you very interesting is you did shatter a ceiling.

[350] And that's exciting.

[351] Yes.

[352] And yet I understand that she's probably fucking sick of talking about that aspect of her career.

[353] Yeah.

[354] So I wonder for you, because you're very defined as well.

[355] I mean, your stand -up special, which is brilliant, as Monica said, really drills down into the first -generation experience.

[356] So is there any point where you're like, cool, I liked that that brought me to the party.

[357] Now I'm sick of talking about it.

[358] And here we are talking about it.

[359] No, for me, look, man, I think what's great, I'm very lucky, first of all, that I get to do a show that sort of shows a lot of different aspects and sides of my personality.

[360] I can cover a topic from Saudi Arabia to sort of...

[361] Watch it this morning.

[362] Supreme.

[363] You know what I mean?

[364] And like sneaker reselling.

[365] It can run the gamut to Amazon and Facebook content moderation.

[366] So you see all these different things that I'm into or passionate about or stories that I want to tell.

[367] Right.

[368] Yeah.

[369] But like for me, like I don't shy away from talking about it.

[370] Yeah.

[371] I think we live in a time right now where that's great.

[372] I kind of came to terms for the longest time.

[373] I really did want to fit in at the party.

[374] Yeah.

[375] And I really wanted Chad, Corey, Cole, Adam, Brian.

[376] You know what I mean?

[377] All of them to just like me. Hey, hey, it's Hassan.

[378] I don't, I don't want to.

[379] I don't want to.

[380] say I'm Hassan Minaj.

[381] I don't want to talk about being Muslim.

[382] Yeah.

[383] And I really started to think about we're artists, right?

[384] I see myself as an artist.

[385] And to be a great artist, assimilation isn't the win.

[386] Authenticity is.

[387] And so whatever is authentically you do that.

[388] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[389] That's all I want from artists.

[390] I'm not asking anyone to carry some baton that they should or shouldn't carry.

[391] Right.

[392] But for me, I am very proud to be Desi.

[393] I am very proud that like, What did you say, Dacey?

[394] Dacey is like a person from the South Asian subcontinent.

[395] Oh, okay.

[396] I like that.

[397] India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, bungal.

[398] That's sort of brownish part of the world.

[399] Yes.

[400] And I'm very proud to be that.

[401] And I'm very proud to, hey, be this guy who, for the most part, through elementary school, middle school, junior high, had a mustache, sideburn's glasses, was on the sidelines of the conversation and to now be in the mainstream and say, you know what it is.

[402] I'm Hassan Menhage.

[403] This is new brown America.

[404] To me, I'm not trying to give you Diet Pepsi version of me. Right.

[405] Think about your favorite musician or artist, right?

[406] Can I just say that was a perfect?

[407] Because Diet Coke is a good soda.

[408] It's a really good soda.

[409] But give me that full calorie.

[410] One of my favorite authors is Eddie Wong.

[411] Eddie Wong says this great thing.

[412] And it's like it informs my choices in life.

[413] He goes, I don't buy off the sales rack and I don't wear Reeboks.

[414] What he's trying to say in his first book, fresh off the boat, I wear Jordans.

[415] I wear Nike.

[416] I wear the brand that I really fucking love.

[417] Right.

[418] And like, you know, now that I have a little bit of bread, I'm going to go into the store and I'm going to buy the jacket that I want.

[419] Like a first -class citizen.

[420] But it's not that.

[421] It's an uncompromised choice.

[422] Oh, okay.

[423] I'm wearing the Air Jordan 3 white cement.

[424] I'm not going to get the color way that's a little bit.

[425] I want this one.

[426] I've been eyeing it for a long time, so I'm getting it.

[427] And that's the same thing.

[428] That's the approach to Hassan Minaj.

[429] Right.

[430] It is what it is.

[431] And I don't care if...

[432] You're not to apologize.

[433] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[434] And I don't care if in the producer session, they go, Hansen Minaja, I'm just like, I don't give a fuck.

[435] Right.

[436] Because the internet is real and there's more people who look like me than you.

[437] Right.

[438] I'm sorry to get a little Farrakhan about it.

[439] No. It's like how I feel.

[440] I feel a certain way about it.

[441] Yeah.

[442] Well, hold on though.

[443] There's not everyone looks like you.

[444] You're a solid nine.

[445] So let's just let's let's let's let's let's, I'm six foot what?

[446] Let's just fucking.

[447] I'm six, one.

[448] Let's own your.

[449] Let's own your privilege.

[450] Let's own your privilege.

[451] Let's own your privilege.

[452] I don't know.

[453] Oh, oh.

[454] I'm an American citizen.

[455] I'm fucking with you.

[456] No, you're a babe.

[457] My wife's in love with you.

[458] So let's just not say everyone looks like you on the planet.

[459] Or that more people look like you.

[460] Monica, what do you think?

[461] I think you're a babe.

[462] No, what I mean by that is that you, did you not grow up with a lot of, don't you have a cousin named Verun who kind of looks like me?

[463] Poofy hair, lined up beard?

[464] A dude named Vakash who you kind of, like.

[465] Lined up a beard.

[466] How amazing is this, Dax?

[467] This wouldn't have been possible in 2011, 2012.

[468] These type of conversation.

[469] Yeah, that's awesome.

[470] In pop culture.

[471] It's awesome.

[472] Monica, you know, this sort of unbridled honesty where we're playing offense.

[473] Yeah.

[474] Not possible.

[475] No, I fully agree.

[476] There's been so much progression.

[477] I'm getting nervous.

[478] I didn't bring one of my guns with me. I mean, that's how much I...

[479] You should.

[480] You should.

[481] But I actually think it's really exciting.

[482] For us, again, artists and creatives, because we're all mutants.

[483] Now, for all of us to authentically see everybody's superpowers, your Cyclops and Jubilee shoots things out of her hands and that's Gambit and everyone is authentically showing...

[484] Yeah.

[485] I love it.

[486] Me too.

[487] Look it.

[488] I think it's fucking awesome.

[489] Yeah, next to my wife, this is the most exciting.

[490] human being of my life.

[491] I couldn't love Monica more.

[492] Yeah.

[493] I know her story inside now.

[494] I'm obsessed with her.

[495] But I know hers really well.

[496] I do want to go to elementary school, junior high, high school.

[497] But wait, I have one.

[498] Oh, so sorry.

[499] Sorry.

[500] Also, two things.

[501] One, I do think you're far more handsome than most people.

[502] So, no, I don't have a cousin that looks like you.

[503] I don't think.

[504] Two, the reason you feel so strongly about I'm not compromising, because you compromised for so long.

[505] I compromised a ton.

[506] There we go.

[507] That's where I was heading.

[508] And I compromised growing up.

[509] I compromised my first 10, 12 years in show biz.

[510] There's so many things I'm just embarrassed of.

[511] And I just did it because I was scared.

[512] Right.

[513] Straight up scared.

[514] I did some real rough shit too, even as a white guy.

[515] There's a lot of compromising when you're brand new.

[516] Yeah, but it's just like, why did I do that?

[517] I played a hot dog like a harmonica, an AMPM commercial.

[518] So embarrassed.

[519] But I actually think that just, I've just been public about just owning it.

[520] And being like, man, it was really humiliating and embarrassing, and I probably shouldn't have done it.

[521] I should have just been like, I'm not.

[522] Well, what did you, how did you feel about that Master of Nunn episode where he goes into doing the accent or not?

[523] Did you see that episode of Master of Nun?

[524] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

[525] It was great.

[526] Yeah, and it's a great sort of like philosophical choice.

[527] Yeah, yeah.

[528] Yeah, and the one actor, who's his name?

[529] Kristen's in business.

[530] Yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful nice guy.

[531] Rovey's amazing.

[532] I love Rovey.

[533] Yeah, and I'm watching and he's like, oh, I don't care.

[534] I'll do it.

[535] Like, whatever.

[536] And I'm like, I kind of get that.

[537] Like, I'm, you know, I could see myself going like, yeah, whatever, it's no skin off my back to do.

[538] And then also, obviously, I see Aziz's point really well.

[539] No, it's, here's the thing.

[540] Again, these are personal choices for everybody.

[541] It just depends on what does it rock with your personal compass?

[542] Yes.

[543] So, like, I'll give you, like, an example.

[544] I remember there was this pilot that I was auditioning for, and this was in, like, 2012, 2013.

[545] And it was an untitled sitcom where it took place at, like, essentially, like, an Office Max, Office Depot.

[546] There's a bunch of characters that work at the office depot, and there was an Indian character, and the way the Indian character is presented is they're in the back room, and then all of a sudden, out of the loading dock, this shipping crate comes in.

[547] And the shipping crate opens up, and, uh -oh, Bopender just got shipped from India.

[548] Oh, my God.

[549] And he's just like, what am I doing here?

[550] And so in my scene, you know what?

[551] So we're in page four.

[552] We're off to a rough start.

[553] We're in the producer session.

[554] We can record her, tripod, and I'm supposed to come out of the crate.

[555] Uh -oh, Bupender's here, right?

[556] Uh -oh.

[557] And the casting director goes, hey, get in the crate.

[558] Because I started out of the crate, and I'm then talking normally.

[559] You got to get in the crate and then just come out and just, you know.

[560] Do the thing.

[561] Do the thing.

[562] Yeah, yeah.

[563] And then I could hear, you know, I'm hunching over.

[564] And then I open the, uh -oh, way, I got, whoa, it's so far from Bangalore.

[565] You know what I mean?

[566] Coming out of the thing.

[567] And I just remember being, man, what am I doing?

[568] Sure.

[569] I knew this isn't something I'm proud of.

[570] You weren't pushing anything forward with this.

[571] Yeah, like the artistic discourse, all that's, I'm not moving anything forward.

[572] There was a rut.

[573] There's a period of time in my life here.

[574] It's why I don't like coming to LA too much.

[575] Uh -huh.

[576] Where everything that I did was really just defined by a desire to fit in and just try to get on.

[577] And that I don't like.

[578] Yeah, that's rough.

[579] Even with like driving here, I was getting a ton of anxiety going down sort of sunset.

[580] Uh -huh.

[581] And you just see all the billboards of everything.

[582] Yeah.

[583] So it's reminding you of how low you are in the, yeah.

[584] And you're just kind of like.

[585] Do you see any for Bless This Mass?

[586] Everybody is trying to get on.

[587] Yes.

[588] And none of it has to do with the actual work.

[589] Let's just start with, in general, the whole endeavor is humiliating.

[590] Now you add on to, again, it's what people seem to not understand about white privilege.

[591] It's a very triggering word.

[592] I get why it's triggering.

[593] Because it sounds like what you're saying is that my struggle was not hard and that my accomplishments mean less on its surface.

[594] when I very first hear the definition.

[595] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[596] But then when it's explained, like, no, no, your life's going to be very hard.

[597] You might have stepdad's a kick your ass.

[598] You might get molested.

[599] Sure.

[600] But your skin color will never be one of the things that's hard.

[601] Oh, interesting, yeah.

[602] And if you say it that way, I'm like, you're absolutely right.

[603] I can definitely see that.

[604] So the young actor experience in Hollywood is just demoralizing and humiliating.

[605] You're auditioning for a fucking TGIF Friday commercial, dancing with a fucking gazoo in your mouth.

[606] There's no music.

[607] It's just you get in your car, you feel like you just, got fucking gang rape.

[608] Yeah.

[609] Now, and on top of that, yes, there is a race component and you're just playing as an archetype that is fucking embarrassing and backwards and all that, then it's harder.

[610] Yeah.

[611] So it's like I can relate on one level to just the humiliation.

[612] Yeah.

[613] There is.

[614] As like performers, we can all relate to that.

[615] Yeah.

[616] I'm fucking so embarrassed.

[617] I'm praying my friends in Detroit don't see me in this AMPM commercial.

[618] And then didn't you feel like your life, you know, I don't know if you still feel this way.

[619] because now you're like writing and directing on all these things, but your life is just in the wind of destiny, whichever direction it blows you.

[620] And you're just like, I hope it blows me in the right direction.

[621] Yes.

[622] And this notion that you're choosing at that stage, you're not choosing, you're not navigating many decisions.

[623] You're like you go six months, you don't get anything.

[624] Then you're in an MTD lawnmower commercial.

[625] You're stoked.

[626] You can pay rent.

[627] Yeah.

[628] That's what's on the table.

[629] It's not like you're, you know, you get your fielding offers and trying to, you know.

[630] But that very primal idea of both emotional validation and then financial validation, I need to pay rent.

[631] And then hopefully this helps my IMDB Star Meter.

[632] And this leads to the next thing.

[633] Both of those things are mired in desperation.

[634] And that is not an emotion I like operating from.

[635] Nor is it attractive or appealing or does it make people want to work with you or all these things.

[636] And so if then everyone on that Sunset Boulevard drive from, you know, your lift driver to you to the person that you're getting a. a coffee with, everyone's trying to get on.

[637] That is a very shallow emotion.

[638] Uh -huh.

[639] Versus like, even someone showing you something in their notebook, look at what I drew, that's intrinsically tied to like a real creative commodity.

[640] Yes.

[641] Of like, hey, look at my drawing.

[642] It's really good.

[643] It's like, hey, this is something that I did.

[644] And Monica has a drawing or you have a joke and I have a joke.

[645] I like that.

[646] That's what I love.

[647] But that's why comedy is intrinsically more democratizing than anything.

[648] else, especially now with the technology being what it is.

[649] So you can be funny in 30 seconds, and you can put that out there.

[650] You don't have to wait for your phone to ring to go be funny.

[651] Okay, but I want to go back to Davis.

[652] Because your parents moved to Davis, California, and just out of the gates.

[653] Immigrated, yeah.

[654] That, I'm sorry, emigrated.

[655] Yeah.

[656] That's when you leave.

[657] I'm so nervous.

[658] I'm so nervous.

[659] I'm so nervous.

[660] I actually don't even know.

[661] They went from India.

[662] They immigrated here.

[663] Yeah.

[664] Yeah.

[665] But if they were in India, they would emigrate to the U .S. Oh, interesting.

[666] Okay.

[667] Yeah.

[668] So I would emigrate to Britain.

[669] I didn't know.

[670] But if I was in Britain, I'd be an immigrant who immigrated there.

[671] Got it.

[672] Got it.

[673] Okay.

[674] So I just want to start by saying a little bit hit the lottery just by going to Davis, California, right?

[675] Yes.

[676] I mean, if you ended up other places.

[677] By the way, you know, like when everyone talks about this triggering conversation of privilege, I think the thing that people don't like about it is they go, hey, man, you're telling me the things that I got in my life I didn't earn.

[678] exactly fuck you dude exactly yeah and here's the thing that i i've talked about preshant who's the co -creator and head writer of our show we we talked about this out and he's he's a deep like very spiritual guy and has advised me a lot as like a brother and a friend and he goes how much of your life do you think is your own volition and how much of your life is trends and forces and i think a lot of times we get it twisted we think that a lot of it is our own volition and not trends and forces oh sure and if we could just take a moment to understand that there are things called trends and forces, aka luck, privilege, whatever you want to call it.

[679] Trends and force is a little less triggering.

[680] That helped shape the way for you.

[681] Oh, 100%.

[682] I will be 100 % candid, right?

[683] Yeah.

[684] I have a lot of cousins back home in India that live in Delhi.

[685] Delhi is incredibly populated.

[686] There's a lot of like traffic and smog.

[687] I have cousins that are better looking than me that are more charming than me. I have a cousin named Sahil.

[688] Sahel is one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life.

[689] My wife confirms this.

[690] She's like Cahill's way funnier than you.

[691] Everyone that I know knows how funny Sahel is.

[692] Yeah.

[693] I have a cousin Saad who's like really tall, buff, just super good looking.

[694] Like, he could be an actor.

[695] He could be a Bollywood actor.

[696] He's so good looking.

[697] Saad is in Delhi.

[698] He has to be an engineer.

[699] He has to do what he has to do to survive.

[700] And Saad, if you're listening to this, I love you.

[701] I lucked out.

[702] Najmi came here to the States.

[703] His older sister helped get his visa so he could come here.

[704] He got a job working at the Cali.

[705] EPA in Sacramento.

[706] We moved to Davis.

[707] Davis has good schools.

[708] I lucked out.

[709] That is trends and forces working in Hussein Manhattan in favor.

[710] California is more multicultural.

[711] Also, additionally, yes.

[712] Yeah.

[713] Now I'll now, now I'll contextualize it for the people that didn't have the immigrant experience.

[714] I'll give you three trends and forces.

[715] Examples where I Hussein Minhaj lucked out.

[716] Hussein Monaj lucked out.

[717] I am I moved to to Hollywood in 2009, 2010.

[718] I call this era and all my friends call it the dark ages between 20, 2009 to 2014.

[719] Things were not really going too well for me here in Los Angeles.

[720] My dream was to always be on the Daily Show.

[721] But the Daily Show, they only have five correspondents.

[722] It's a small group.

[723] Someone has to leave.

[724] And just to give you perspective.

[725] Can I ask you a quick question on that?

[726] That's written in stone or just you did observe that they seem to have five.

[727] You just observe over the years.

[728] You go, look, it's Corell, Helms, Cordry, da, da, da, da, da, but Sanby.

[729] It's usually five or six tops, right?

[730] And it was a dream of mine to be there.

[731] Not SNL.

[732] Not SNL.

[733] Okay.

[734] I always wanted to do like...

[735] Because you majored in poli -sai.

[736] Yeah, and I was just like, oh, man, like, I can do this.

[737] I can't do voices, but I can, like, be funny, but be quick, but then also be pointed and have sort of biting commentary, but then also, like, write savage jokes.

[738] Like, this is my lane.

[739] Right.

[740] I can do this.

[741] And I just need a chance.

[742] But you need an opening.

[743] And the people who are on the show, stay on the show for quite a long time.

[744] Sam was there for, like, 10 plus years.

[745] Colbert was there for, like, eight something, you know, Oliver eight.

[746] Like, people are there for a long time.

[747] Michael Che happens to leave.

[748] He goes back to SNL to do weekend update.

[749] Now there's an opening.

[750] I lucked out.

[751] I happened to be doing comedy for 10 years, one month, and nine days at the point where I got my screen test.

[752] Right.

[753] So I had enough cuts and wounds and chops to get in and screen test and be ready for John.

[754] But that's a luck thing that on that day in 2014, I would have 10 years behind.

[755] That's a luck thing.

[756] Chee Leap has nothing to do with my ability.

[757] Right.

[758] To luck.

[759] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[760] We've all been there.

[761] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[762] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[763] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[764] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[765] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[766] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[767] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[768] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[769] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[770] What's up, guys?

[771] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[772] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[773] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[774] And I don't mean just friends.

[775] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[776] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[777] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[778] White House Correspondents in another sort of inflection point in my career.

[779] Donald Trump becomes president.

[780] Big deal.

[781] All of a sudden, the cultural zeitgeist of the country now shifts.

[782] Post -Obama America goes, oh, maybe this country is a lot more sexist and racist than we thought.

[783] First year for the presidency, Donald Trump decides to not show up to the White House Correspondence dinner.

[784] Also in his first year, he enacts the Muslim ban.

[785] Who does the WHCA look for?

[786] A Muslim comedian.

[787] That's me getting lucky, man. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[788] things the guy from the daily show who got that opportunity because of trends and forces who then got hired by john stewart trends and forces yeah who then had an opening because we're in a very racially charged Islamophobic America in that time people are like hey man this is like really fucked up the w hCA makes a move to then go hey maybe let's have him yeah yeah versus let's say it goes in the opposite direction let's say Hillary Clinton wins now you have the first year of the white house correspondent's dinner yes queen you're going to go with Samantha b you're going to go With Alana Glazer, you're going to go with the choice that represents the trends and the cultural forces of the time.

[789] Sure.

[790] It has nothing to do with my talent.

[791] Right.

[792] And I...

[793] Well, hold on.

[794] It doesn't have nothing to do with your talent.

[795] We cannot put a bozo up there just because he is...

[796] I'm not the funnier.

[797] I'm telling you there's a lot of funnier comedians than me. I'll tell you right now in my class, the comics that are funnier than me, there's a lot.

[798] Malaney's funnier.

[799] Michael Chase's funnier.

[800] Michelle Wolf is funny.

[801] There's...

[802] No, no, but I'm saying...

[803] I'm saying a Muslim comedian.

[804] As you point out, yes, the situation...

[805] calls for that and then now we're going to go to the pool of people who are funny and at that point now your talent is everything your talent got you in the pool yes and it's so the thing we're debating here the three of us we're debating is what's the percentage right what's the percentage of that's the debatable thing and by the way I'm not holding an absolute on that right yeah your humility I think is defined by how much you're willing to acknowledge the amount that trends and forces because there's a lot of people that are like, man, trends and forces is 10%, 90 % is me. And I go, yes and no. So I will say this, two things.

[806] There's two things that like really change my perspective on this.

[807] You know, right now what's happening in the world, there's a lot of xenophobia that's happening with Brexit and it's happening in Europe.

[808] There was this beautiful image that I saw that was posted.

[809] It was in regards to the migrant crisis of things that are happening where a lot of people, refugees were going into Greece and parts of Europe to try to escape.

[810] And there was a photo.

[811] And a really funny comedian friend of mine named Ammer Rahman, who's hilarious.

[812] He posted, you can say whatever you want about these people.

[813] And it was these young kids getting off the raft running to land.

[814] You can call them whatever you want.

[815] You can call them filthy, vermin, a disease.

[816] But just know this.

[817] The only difference between them and you is luck.

[818] Yeah.

[819] Made me look at that blue passport in a whole new way.

[820] Man, I lucked out having this.

[821] I don't disrespect this incredible privilege that was given to me. Right.

[822] By whatever, the universe, God, whatever you want to call it.

[823] And look, like with you living here in L .A., right?

[824] yeah did this aunt becky scandal for the love of god did it finally put the light could we not finally be fucking honest about this idea of meritocracy oh yeah well has been cast especially as like they're trying to like disassemble affirmative action and all these things that include other types of people can we finally acknowledge at every single juncture of your life there are a group of people yeah that had mommy and daddy walk them to the front of the nightclub of opportunity my tweet about it which I think was misunderstood by quite a few people was my mom paid my rent and my tuition at UCLA.

[825] Yeah.

[826] Also, I got hit by a car and she paid my medical expenses for that.

[827] Your mom's an amazing woman.

[828] Jeez, really incredible.

[829] What an incredible.

[830] But those three things wipe out someone else.

[831] I'm able to complete that due to that.

[832] Yeah.

[833] And a lot of other people that takes out of the mix.

[834] Yeah.

[835] So what I said about the Sam Becky thing was that it did not expose inequality in the system.

[836] it exposed the zenith of the inequality.

[837] Yeah, yeah.

[838] That's all it exposed.

[839] Oh, wow, it goes that far.

[840] Yeah.

[841] But to think that I am not somewhere on the ladder of opportunity and inequality, I was on it.

[842] Of course, I know, I'm not fancying myself.

[843] And I was on it too.

[844] The fact that Nodged me, my dad was willing to pay for Kaplan classes.

[845] I fucked up Kaplan and then he paid it.

[846] Is that like an SAT?

[847] Yeah, I took it too.

[848] Oh, you guys did.

[849] And I fucked around.

[850] And I did shitty in Kaplan.

[851] And then my dad re -upped.

[852] I mean, I mean, my immigrant parents.

[853] re -up and took my dumb ass to Princeton Review.

[854] That's a privilege.

[855] You know who was shocked by the Annie Maggie, whatever it is?

[856] Aunt Becky.

[857] Aunt Becky.

[858] Jesus, Annie Maggie.

[859] The people that were shocked by Aunt Becky were white people.

[860] If I'm black and I'm young, I'm not like, wait, the system's rigged.

[861] I'm like, no, motherfucker.

[862] The system's is clearly rigged.

[863] It's to what degree is it rigged.

[864] But it's what I love about it is the brightness of the light that was cast upon it.

[865] Now it's on the front page of Twitter.

[866] It's on the front page of the New York Times.

[867] Here it is.

[868] It's in print.

[869] But I want to get into it because to me, the headline, the conversation, the headline is spurring on is more about that issue.

[870] I want them to look below that and acknowledge that's just the tip.

[871] I love that too.

[872] You know what I'm saying?

[873] Like, let's go even deeper.

[874] Let's really compare the experience of going to college from a super low -income trailer or ghetto to many other people's.

[875] I want it to be more about like, oh, yeah, it's drag.

[876] drastically unfair in many, many ways.

[877] Yes.

[878] And to me, the issue behind the issue is this, is that, like, and I, now I'm starting to understand this as a parent, because I went through this as a kid.

[879] And I've talked about it, talked about very candidly on the show.

[880] Like, one of our first episodes was affirmative action.

[881] I've been candid about, like, my SAT score and how hard my parents were on me and all that stuff.

[882] But, like, as a dad now, I'm like, what are we teaching our kids?

[883] Mm -hmm.

[884] That the ends justify the means.

[885] 100%.

[886] And that's the problem that I have.

[887] that just like, hey, don't worry about it.

[888] As long as you get into good school, it'll be fine.

[889] And then that'll be the fast track to the next thing, the next thing.

[890] And then before you know it, that's how like this desire to get to that next monkey bar without any sort of, hey, morality, throw it out the window.

[891] Or how about process?

[892] Yeah.

[893] How about that it's not about the result?

[894] It's about the process.

[895] It's no wonder at 44 I'm still trying my hardest to enjoy process.

[896] For many years, it was all about the point of the movie was hopefully it would open and then I could do a bigger movie and make more money.

[897] and then the point of that movie would be, you know, no one said to me, hey, this is the end goal.

[898] Go away for three months with these creative people and enjoy the fuck out of this.

[899] On your deathbed, you'll think about the three -month experience of making it, not the Friday opening.

[900] Yeah, yeah.

[901] Those three months you were in Albuquerque shooting the bubble of life.

[902] Yeah, I did Albuquerque all nights in a Costco.

[903] Really?

[904] The process was a little rough.

[905] Uh -huh.

[906] But, yeah, no one's...

[907] Oh, is that for employee of the month?

[908] Yes, exactly.

[909] What a wild time.

[910] I remember watching that and just being like back home, being like, this is unbelievable.

[911] I'm not.

[912] But I could only imagine.

[913] In what way?

[914] Please tell me. Just Dane Cook took comedy to this stadium -level place.

[915] Right, right, yeah.

[916] The economy of it was booming.

[917] And then you were hanging off the shopping cart like this.

[918] Oh, my God, you really remember.

[919] You're hanging off like this.

[920] You're not taking a photo.

[921] He's hanging off with this.

[922] It's a big deal.

[923] Yeah.

[924] But explain it to the big deal to me. I want to really break it down.

[925] What I mean is that just I was just like...

[926] Because if I were, you're 11 years younger than me. Yes.

[927] If I was...

[928] That was 2007, 2008, right?

[929] I guess it came out in 06 or 07.

[930] Yeah.

[931] So how old are you then?

[932] 06 or 07, 85, 22, 23, something like that.

[933] If I'm 22 and I see the poster, that poster, as a comedian, I'm like, what a joke.

[934] Oh, my God, and he's hanging off of a grocery car?

[935] I would have been so cynical of that.

[936] No, no. The gloss of that movie poster really was like you can go from performing at the Laugh Factory to being the main person.

[937] Oh, okay.

[938] So it kind of seemed.

[939] Yeah, but to be a thousand percent real.

[940] That happened in 2004, walking past the holiday cinema in Davis, California, and seeing John Cho and Cal Penn on the cover of Koumar, White Castle.

[941] They were both the leads of that movie, and they were unapologetically themselves.

[942] Right.

[943] And it was fucking awesome.

[944] Yes.

[945] And I remember being like a freshman, and I was starting to do open mics at that time.

[946] And just the possibility of what it represented.

[947] Yeah.

[948] Palpable energy.

[949] I felt it in the movie theater most recently with Black Panther, and I felt it.

[950] with crazy rich Asians and it wasn't just representation matters it's not that it's anything's fucking possible sure dude there's a character who's from fucking Singapore and he's super Singaporean Ronnie Chang is like he's Chinese Malay and he's being authentic about being Chinese Malay I don't again I don't have to assimilate yes I can give you full calorie meat and that can inform my art and that art can be top shelf liquor yes it's not like on ZTV cable TV like our parents watch you know And it's like sort of this back end.

[951] It's, it is prime placement.

[952] And to me, dude, I'm like, I'm telling you, man, it's like a double shot of espresso of inspiration when I'm sitting in that theater.

[953] Well, I think people underestimate the power of seeing people like you in public media.

[954] I mean, you must have felt that when you would watch scrubs.

[955] You're like, anything is possible.

[956] No, you know who made me think I could be an actor?

[957] I've said this before.

[958] I was obsessed with Nicholas Cage, like early Nicholas Cage.

[959] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[960] Valley Girl.

[961] All these movies.

[962] or like late 80s?

[963] Late 80s, early 90s, you know, Wild at Heart, all these movies.

[964] Because I looked at him and I was like, well, is he good looking or not?

[965] I don't know.

[966] Sure.

[967] He's tall.

[968] He's embracing that he's weird.

[969] Yeah.

[970] I think that's a lane, like that lane exists in Hollywood.

[971] That was, because everyone else, like I wasn't cute like those other guys or in my head.

[972] You felt that way even though you dated Kate Hudson?

[973] Well, I dated her so I could not feel that way.

[974] Really?

[975] Yes.

[976] I really don't understand that.

[977] you know how like in comedy there's a there's a there's a premise sure not even following you on the premise right and a lot of people feel that way in a lot of the listeners listeners do you buy into this premise I'm not buying no a lot of people hate it he doesn't believe that he's good looking is that the premise yeah yeah like I had to date Kate Hudson to validate this and I don't oh yeah I dated any really yeah well she knows me very very well yeah yeah no I dated any girl that I thought would elevate my status.

[978] Oh boy.

[979] You know, who it can prove to me. Subconsciously.

[980] Let's be honest.

[981] Oh, 100 %.

[982] No. Who can I pick out?

[983] It's happening on a subconscious level, but you're noting that this person is high status and prettier and everyone wants to be with that girl.

[984] And if I can get that girl, I would think, oh, then I am worthy of that.

[985] And then I do that my whole life.

[986] Again, unconsciously.

[987] I do that all the time still.

[988] on a subconscious level like that choice validate you sure sure everyone does that yeah yeah yeah and it and it took me taking it to the zenith where like oh my god I'm dating a girl I saw in movies I was obsessed with that's crazy I was waiting to look into the mirror and see some handsome dude staring back and I look at me and I see the same crooked nose really the same this and the same that it had zero effect no no it's an inside job the things that give you self -esteem are esteemable acts, not, you know, absorbing someone else's status.

[989] It'd be great if it worked that way.

[990] It had to feel kind of cool, man. Oh, initially, yes.

[991] A thousand percent.

[992] It's so excited.

[993] Wow, that girl likes me. But I don't feel any different about Dak Shepard because I'm with her.

[994] I'm pumped that I'm with her, but I'm not feeling different.

[995] I feel different when I'm of service to people who need me. You know, when I work out, I feel different.

[996] When I do esteemable things, I feel different.

[997] Yeah.

[998] I like that.

[999] Esteemable things.

[1000] That's a cool thing.

[1001] Is that a running theme on the do you guys?

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] We talk about that a lot.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] Well, because the other answer to you why I have a podcast that I didn't say is that I go to AA meetings.

[1006] The dynamic in that room, the vulnerability and honesty, I've not obscene anywhere else on the planet.

[1007] And I thought, I think everyone could benefit from this.

[1008] Really?

[1009] Yeah.

[1010] People owning the thing I just owned.

[1011] I'm trying to get status from other people.

[1012] I like the 12 steps, like the apologizing to people that you've like done wrong to.

[1013] Yeah, the amends.

[1014] It's great, yeah.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] So I feel this, this is the way I feel right now, right?

[1017] I'm in this weird phase of my life where this past year launching a show where I'm the boss, you know, I'm the limiting factor on what the show is.

[1018] It's Patriot Act with Hassan Menhaj.

[1019] So it's like, it's not an ensemble thing.

[1020] I have to show up because it's just the whole thing.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] And then also I became a father.

[1023] Me, Bina, we have a baby daughter now and now I'm, you know, the co -creator and showrunner of that.

[1024] And a feeling that I have all the time is this feeling of there's a lot of loneliness that all my time is being sucked up either in the show or in taking care of what I got to hold it down at the house.

[1025] Yes.

[1026] And now my, you know, my mom and dad, my parents are getting older.

[1027] My mom recently had knee surgery.

[1028] I have to go back to Sacramento.

[1029] I got to be at the surgery.

[1030] I got to sign the paper.

[1031] I got to be this thing.

[1032] thing.

[1033] And this person, this Hassan from before that used to just be able to kick it for a long period of time and then go to the diner and hang out with friends and then chop it up.

[1034] That person is gone.

[1035] Yes.

[1036] And now I don't know what the fuck is going on.

[1037] Well, you're talking.

[1038] But there is this feeling of like loneliness.

[1039] Everything is great in, um, you know, Islamukhah, all praise is due to God.

[1040] like I'm like things are good and my life my baby's healthy my wife is healthy yes fortunately my mom and dad is healthy her surgery went well everything is good yeah but man like I can relate to this so much and I don't know what to do about that yourself you know what I was thinking I was like is this the loneliness of adulthood well I felt it firsthand six years ago when we had our daughter because I was as you say I was at a job I was trying to be a husband my dad was dying So I'm like, I need something for me. Right, right.

[1041] I can't just be here for everyone else.

[1042] I need to have my own thing.

[1043] Right.

[1044] You go, okay, well, I deserve that and I need that.

[1045] So I need to talk to my wife, like, I need a weekend every two months where I go with my bros and I do whatever the fuck I do for three days.

[1046] That's okay to ask as a need.

[1047] You need to carve out time for Hassan.

[1048] I want to say it right from.

[1049] Hassan.

[1050] Haasen, great.

[1051] You need time for Haasen.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] And you need to learn how to state your needs in a way that's not threatening to your wife.

[1054] Sure.

[1055] but I'll ask you this have you found though that your self -esteem has gone up despite all this feeling lonely do you feel like after you spend that morning getting baby ready and then feeding baby that that hour and a half of not thinking about what Hassan needs is liberating the coolest thing was watching her she walked for the first time she took her first steps yeah and I opened the door and I said ajja ajja adja and Hindi means like come come come and she walked towards me she's like and her mouth was open like this and then And then she started walking towards her.

[1056] I was like, Ajah, Ajah, Ajah.

[1057] And she was coming towards me. And I felt like my heart was exploding.

[1058] Uh -huh.

[1059] It was so cool.

[1060] I felt so lucky.

[1061] I just have Spikely tickets to her life.

[1062] Yeah.

[1063] I couldn't be happier.

[1064] Yes.

[1065] I could not be happier.

[1066] I just want to witness it.

[1067] Yes.

[1068] And do you have a lot of fear about work getting in the way of that?

[1069] Yeah.

[1070] Me too.

[1071] What is your schedule on your show?

[1072] Right.

[1073] It's brutal, right?

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] So, you know, like my daughter will get up at 630.

[1076] Mm -hmm.

[1077] And my wife.

[1078] This is actually, to her credit, she was like, if you don't take advantage of that time, you know, waking her up, taking that diaper off, wiping her butt, putting the new diaper on, taking her, feeding her breakfast, just washing her, playing her with their hair and all that stuff.

[1079] You don't do that.

[1080] It's going to go.

[1081] It's going to go by fast, and you're going to lose that.

[1082] She won't care.

[1083] Yeah.

[1084] She's not going to let you do that at 13.

[1085] You're going to lose that.

[1086] Yeah.

[1087] And it's going to be gone.

[1088] So she was like, you need to make that a priority.

[1089] And I did.

[1090] You know, and I have.

[1091] But then I go to at the office like nine, everybody at the office is, hey, Hussin, what do we want to talk about on the show?

[1092] We're talking about, you know, the elections that are happening here.

[1093] We talk about this.

[1094] But what you're, you have, the limiting factor is my passion and my drive to storytell.

[1095] What story do I want to tell?

[1096] Yes.

[1097] And that starts from the top down.

[1098] And that came from John, Stephen, Trevor, everybody, Sam, everyone's dealing with this, right?

[1099] And then she goes down.

[1100] Do you want to see her before she goes down?

[1101] But everybody at work is waiting for you.

[1102] So there's this balance to it.

[1103] Sometimes I run back and put her down.

[1104] sometimes I stay at the office till late, and then there's Bina, and I got to be a husband and get, you know, get your Barack and Michelle on.

[1105] Like, hey, we still love each other and we're both super driven and blah, blah, blah.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] There's all that.

[1108] And there's a little bit of sadness.

[1109] And it's not me wanting to be a man baby, but the days of me just kicking it and laughing with there's nothing assigned to it.

[1110] We love to as humans, I think, isolate something that's uncomfortable for us, and then just project it, you know, endlessly into the future, that I will feel this way forever, that this is going to carry on forever, that you're not.

[1111] never going to have the time you want with your daughter or the time at work whatever that's not true today you do today's rough yeah and it's challenging but that's not your life and if you just focus like if you keep it smaller it helps if you just take one morning at a time yes one thing at a time yeah and i'm going through it right now because i signed on to do a single cam show and i forgot how fucking long it takes to shoot a single cam show and while i'm there the first three weeks i'm so miserable to be around because i'm evaluating this is my next seven years I'm now going to miss from six years old to 13 years old.

[1112] I fucked up.

[1113] I got to get out of this.

[1114] I can't miss the next seven years.

[1115] And if the weight of everything is seven years, if the weight of them laying dolly track and they're not doing it quickly, and I'm thinking of that's it right there, seven years.

[1116] I'm not going to see my kids.

[1117] That now becomes insufferable.

[1118] Yes.

[1119] And I finally had to go like, I got to separate this big fear I have from what's going on immediately in front of me. So just take this.

[1120] Yes, just chill.

[1121] But family's like, There's certain feelings that I have when I'm with my family that I'm like, I want this to last forever.

[1122] And I'll do everything I can.

[1123] So Bina had this idea.

[1124] My daughter just turned one.

[1125] We got her Gmail, which was a big deal.

[1126] Sure, sure.

[1127] She can't get her, so it's her first name for last name at gmail .com.

[1128] And she goes, write her a letter because I used to write Bina letters, right, by hand.

[1129] But she goes, she's not going to know what letters are.

[1130] You write her an email.

[1131] So I write her this letter.

[1132] And then for the first time I wrote Love, Dad.

[1133] And then I had this realization that what's really cool is I'm the only person in the world that she calls dad.

[1134] It really is a one of one.

[1135] Until she dates our Kelly when you get that.

[1136] Oh, God.

[1137] Did you have to kill this moment?

[1138] It was just sitting too pretty for me. But love is in temporary.

[1139] You know where my brain went, Dax?

[1140] Where?

[1141] You know what my brain went?

[1142] Where?

[1143] My brain was I always loved rare Air Jordans.

[1144] This is the rarest of the rare.

[1145] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1146] This is a one of one.

[1147] It is.

[1148] You know, they're like, they only made 100 pair.

[1149] But for this, for her calling me dad, it is the one -on -one.

[1150] But there's two really valid things going on in your life, right?

[1151] Have you read this book essentialism?

[1152] Have you been recommended?

[1153] I haven't, but a bunch of people are book.

[1154] It's something really useful to read if you're someone in your situation who has a lot on their shoulders and learning to really figure out, when am I needed, what am I not media, what maybes are knows and what maybes are yeses, all these kind of things.

[1155] It's good.

[1156] You probably maybe already lived that way already.

[1157] I don't know.

[1158] Yeah.

[1159] I'm pretty bare bones.

[1160] Like I wish I had more time to be like, again, I love you and Chris.

[1161] I have not seen the good place.

[1162] Right.

[1163] Sure.

[1164] I have no idea what that is.

[1165] Like my life for the past, as I've been trying to set up Patriot Act for the past three to five years has really been.

[1166] Non -sap.

[1167] Political comedy.

[1168] This thing.

[1169] It's been on this track of this, right?

[1170] And again, it's me recognizing my privilege.

[1171] There's so many people.

[1172] And I'm talking about like the guys and gals that I came up with that are just fighting for a shot.

[1173] I know that I got lucky and I got to take advantage of that and do everything I can that will provide more opportunities to people that I love and people that I know and all that sort of stuff.

[1174] Yeah.

[1175] But at the same time, like, because of that, like, I haven't been able to, you know, experience those things.

[1176] And I do sometimes want to.

[1177] I'm like, I would love to see us.

[1178] I want to see.

[1179] Sure, sure.

[1180] Yeah, yeah.

[1181] Oh, yeah.

[1182] I'm not that movie.

[1183] I used to go see every single movie that came out.

[1184] That ended six years ago.

[1185] Yeah, but do you miss that time?

[1186] Fuck, yes.

[1187] The Arclight is my favorite place on the planet.

[1188] So how did you sit there by myself?

[1189] How did you say RIP to that thing or like?

[1190] I just know.

[1191] Maybe I should fucking just go to a movie alone tonight.

[1192] You should.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] You have to just make it a priority.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] Because here's the thing.

[1197] We read that book, Brain Rules for Babies when Kristen was expecting.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] The most important thing to me was like, what's it due to mom and dad?

[1200] Well, and we had this guy John Gottman on who runs Gottman Institute.

[1201] He's been studying marriage for 50 years.

[1202] Yeah.

[1203] It makes marriage worse for like 70 % of people.

[1204] Kids do.

[1205] kids oh my god yeah so i i like to know that i'm like oh great if we think this thing's just going to be additive to our life and our relationship we're wrong i have the statistics so what things are causing it to diminish yeah and there's a bunch of things one of them is like not sharing the workload evenly right and things that i at least pinpoint i was like okay good i need to watch out for these because i don't want to be one of the 70 percent but but there's a bunch of things going on one of them is there there is a little bit of an expectation nowadays fathers like us in this current culture who have young kids the expectation's a little untenable it's a little unrealistic it kind of assumes that like well who's gonna work somebody's got to work right there's this expectation now that the parents got to be there like 16 hours a day yeah and that a little i think that's untenable so i think there's one thing is like for both for both people yeah it's absolutely yeah mom's too yeah oh yeah it's like everybody's got to be every i don't I always feel like I don't have the answer.

[1206] I'm not, am I doing enough?

[1207] Am I good enough dad?

[1208] Am I good enough husband?

[1209] I always feel that.

[1210] I always feel like I'm chasing this thing.

[1211] Of course.

[1212] And I try to take it just day by day.

[1213] Like today is Sunday.

[1214] I'm just going to try to do the best I can this Sunday.

[1215] Yeah.

[1216] FaceTime at the right time.

[1217] You know, you know, because with the baby.

[1218] They're back in New York.

[1219] But like, yeah, I feel that guilt.

[1220] Maybe she should have came out with us for a couple days.

[1221] We'd have like a nice little.

[1222] I don't know.

[1223] Well, but it's always that feeling of like, all right.

[1224] You got to let yourself off the hook a little bit.

[1225] That's what I'm saying.

[1226] It sounds like maybe what could be beneficial to you is maybe right -sizing expectations of yourself.

[1227] Sure.

[1228] And they could apply to both work and to home.

[1229] You know, you're a human.

[1230] You know if you're lazy.

[1231] If you've been sitting around in a fucking hammock for four hours, not being with your daughter or your work, you need to do some self -evaluation and get better.

[1232] Yeah.

[1233] But if you're at fucking 100 % capacity all day long every day and you're unhappy with your performance, that tells me expectations are probably too high.

[1234] Sure, maybe.

[1235] You know?

[1236] Which are also imposed.

[1237] by society and everything.

[1238] It's not just you internally, but it's up to you to be like, okay, I have to take it easy on myself a little bit.

[1239] There's an article that just made a bunch of headlines, and it was about a study that just came out about how much time and money and resources people are dedicating to children now versus every other time in history.

[1240] Okay.

[1241] And what is it saying?

[1242] Even working mothers, single mother working mothers are spending more time and energy and resources on their kids than 50 stay -at -home housewife moms did.

[1243] This just came out.

[1244] So they're doing more than unemployed housewives did in the 50s, these single moms, and they're feeling like failures.

[1245] So I do think we just need to get a tiny bit realistic about what the expectation is and not succumb to the pressure, the kind of societal pressure of like, I see it way more on moms than dads.

[1246] You've got to say.

[1247] When I go on a red carpet line and I'm next to Kristen, she's two interviews up, I can hear every single question to her is, how do you do it?

[1248] How do you have two kids and have this career?

[1249] Oh, God.

[1250] They don't ask dad that, but there's always a subversive, you can't be a mom and work.

[1251] What grade do you give yourself?

[1252] An A. It's the thing I think I do the best in the world.

[1253] What do you, Monica?

[1254] I would give him an A. He's an A. He's an A plus, probably.

[1255] Oh, man, I agree.

[1256] Those kids have really, really good parents.

[1257] Yeah.

[1258] Man, I'm really afraid of, you know, my wife really wants to move back here.

[1259] I'm genuinely really afraid.

[1260] Tell me. Yeah.

[1261] Uh, Hollywood is a very, very, very, very.

[1262] Dicey.

[1263] Dicey and scary place.

[1264] Toxic.

[1265] Yeah.

[1266] Doesn't have to be though.

[1267] Well, let's go to your fears.

[1268] You're afraid that they'll be image obsessed.

[1269] Yes.

[1270] Status obsessed.

[1271] Weight obsessed.

[1272] Okay.

[1273] Okay.

[1274] Yes.

[1275] So.

[1276] And I'm not saying that like being in the suburbs of New Jersey or upstate New York is going to save that.

[1277] I will say that the thing that I've loved about living in New York for the past five years is just we're all on top of each other for better for worse.

[1278] And I love the substance of what everyone is.

[1279] link to do it is the the journalism empire of the world finance uh media all of all of those things but everyone's really like even the dude who's trying to sell you a bagel on the quarter of 42nd and 8th is like i'm trying to sell you the best most bagels yeah sure i love the soul of what that means uh -huh i don't look the grind is very toxic we're on this garbage eight mile garbage island trying to just like climb over each other but that idea of you know the halal guys at 53rd and 6 competing with the other halal guys across the street them saying ours is the best halal car there i love the essence of that and i want to show that to my daughter and it's also just to own this like to go back like it uh represents things to me so that's that's the other thing i was going to say is my last week of drinking was in kawai yeah i think kawai is a fucking toilet yeah quai is not a toilet yeah for me i almost yes but for me that's the only island i will never go back to what it represents yeah Yes, that was like my darkest week ever.

[1280] And I have Kristen's like, we got to go to choir.

[1281] You're going to?

[1282] Oh, I'll go.

[1283] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1284] She's running the show.

[1285] I, you know, I had my way long enough.

[1286] Got it.

[1287] But, or Santa Monica.

[1288] I despise Santa Monica.

[1289] Yeah.

[1290] But I have to acknowledge this because I was 10 years unemployed in Santa Monica.

[1291] So when I drive through there, I represent.

[1292] Yes, it really is my baggage.

[1293] But you don't feel like when I go drive by places, I feel so good.

[1294] I'm like, oh my God, I remember what it felt like when I lived there.

[1295] Now I'm here, and you can maybe reframe as, look how far I've come.

[1296] Oh, interesting.

[1297] And I'm going to be able to do this experience in the way I had always wanted to.

[1298] Sure.

[1299] You know, with like driving the train instead of the caboose.

[1300] Perhaps.

[1301] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1302] Do you have that fantasy?

[1303] I have the Dave Chappelle, fuck you Hollywood.

[1304] I have the farm in Ohio fantasy.

[1305] I tell Beena this all the time.

[1306] I'm like, we're going to Montana.

[1307] Sure.

[1308] Yeah, but then I'll ask myself, like, why?

[1309] Why is that appealing?

[1310] Uh -huh.

[1311] Is it, is it that place or is it, I just don't want to be accountable to anyone?

[1312] Do you know what it represents?

[1313] You know when you have your iPhone open and you do the swipe up to just get rid of the safari window and the Yelp window and the blah?

[1314] It represents the swipe up.

[1315] Get this out of here.

[1316] Get these fucking billboards out of my fucking face.

[1317] Uh -huh.

[1318] Get this nonsense out.

[1319] Just essentialism.

[1320] Let's clear it out.

[1321] Sure.

[1322] You know, it really is.

[1323] about our home, the yard, the blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1324] Also, have you done any experimentation?

[1325] Have you spent an extended period of time?

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] You have.

[1328] Where'd you go?

[1329] Like, we went upstate and I, like, loved it.

[1330] For how long?

[1331] I mean, it was only like four days.

[1332] Yeah, no. But I'm pretty simple, man. Pretty simple.

[1333] I'm like my dad.

[1334] Like, my dad is very, very simple.

[1335] Like, I could just sit in a living room, twiddling my toes.

[1336] And he is or was a chemist?

[1337] He retired?

[1338] He was a chemist?

[1339] Uh -huh.

[1340] And what kind of chemical engineering Did he do you?

[1341] Organic chemistry.

[1342] Organic chemistry.

[1343] Did he make a good living?

[1344] Civil engineering, right?

[1345] Your father?

[1346] Yeah.

[1347] He made a good living.

[1348] He knows his shit on Monica.

[1349] Well, I just wanted to hear more of you in the front end of the show, not the back end.

[1350] Thank you for saying that.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] That's nice to say.

[1353] I just don't want to interrupt.

[1354] No, no, no, no. Get C -Ced on this email.

[1355] Don't be CC your way through an interview.

[1356] Well, a lot of it boils down to, in all honesty.

[1357] If you've not listened to the show, you know me. You don't know Monica's a part of the show.

[1358] So it's kind of a surprise when you sit down.

[1359] So, you know, whereas if you go to Stern, everyone knows Stern.

[1360] You know Robin.

[1361] You're going to talk to Robin.

[1362] It's just a matter of like, yes.

[1363] I want to talk about your show, though, because I'm a big fan of it.

[1364] I really, really.

[1365] We've had other, should we let him in on one of our debates we had about his stand -up?

[1366] Okay, what's the debate?

[1367] What is it?

[1368] Yeah.

[1369] So she and I have tons.

[1370] And I have grown way more towards her than she's growing.

[1371] towards me which is the right thing okay because i i'm i'm older than you i'm 44 i grew up watching a certain kind of comedy i've been a part of a certain kind of comedy i think it's funny to point out funny things about different groups of people i still have enjoyed that right and like when we saw we watched your special together it was her ninth time watching it my first time i was like that fucking toyota corolla joke or camry the camry joke is so great yes and it's something i've a thousand percent noticed yes and i said demonica why is it fine for him to point it out and not me to point it out tell me why it's not still a good joke if i pointed out and we've had hours of debate loving friendly debate yeah sure about why it's it's funny if you say it not funny if i say it yeah right yeah it's an intro it's fertile ground for debate oh yeah i mean this is like a like a comedy philosophy long debate yeah and as a comic like and sometimes people look look to me they're just like you side with this right it's like look man i respect all these differences of opinion i totally understand it you know right i understand both sides of the argument i understand the side of the argument that's like hey let the authors of their own experience tell that story that's what makes it really funny that's what makes it really biting and cutting and authentic and i also understand the the perspective of just like hey we're comedians we're mining everything everyone's getting blasted i'm sorry everyone's getting blasted yeah that's where i come from i'm making fun Everyone's getting splattered.

[1372] Sure.

[1373] And I also recognize that I'm a part of the hegemonic fucking group in this country.

[1374] And it's different.

[1375] And also, look, these boundaries are defined by the first yard line, the first down, you know, where that stick is.

[1376] That's changing.

[1377] And that, by the way, that changes over time and it will continue to change over time.

[1378] These are like just socially accepted rules that will change.

[1379] They're going to change in 10 years when you're 54 and I'm 43.

[1380] It's going to change 20.

[1381] It's just going to keep changing.

[1382] I think it's a case -by -case scenario, and context does matter.

[1383] And that's the thing where, have you ever seen just comedians that are like 20 or 30 years older than us?

[1384] And you watch them and you go, eesh.

[1385] Yeah, 100%.

[1386] And, Dax, what makes you go, yish?

[1387] The eish is, bro, do you not acknowledge context?

[1388] Yes, I, yes.

[1389] And so to me, it's just like, hey, this is going to keep evolving and changing.

[1390] If I want to be a relevant artist, you got to keep evolving and changing.

[1391] Also, you're here now.

[1392] Yes.

[1393] Which is great.

[1394] Yes.

[1395] don't have to make the joke about the camera because you're going to make it right right right right right right it's true and there was no voice to make true true true but you're here now so a lot of a lot of the thoughts i have are things i think i would have normally tried to tackle in comedy i go oh no chapel's doing it there's a perspective that like it's getting out there it doesn't have to be me there's something comforting about knowing like it'll still get observed out loud yes and i don't i don't have to do it your fear that this is killing the art form It's comforting to know that you're here, you're making those observations.

[1396] I don't need to.

[1397] It's being said.

[1398] Somehow that's comforting to me. That's great.

[1399] Because everyone needs to get bull's -eyed a little bit.

[1400] A little bit.

[1401] Sure.

[1402] Why not?

[1403] Now, hip -hop, this could be another fun thing.

[1404] What's that?

[1405] Tell me, do you have a theory on why Indian kids are really drawn to hip -hap?

[1406] Do you have a theory?

[1407] So my theory is that the themes of it speak to what we went through growing up.

[1408] So the feeling of, like, number one, you're an outsider.

[1409] Number two, like the immigrant story is aspirational.

[1410] Hip hop is aspirational.

[1411] We started from this.

[1412] We're making it to this.

[1413] And then number three, like just the straight up bravado of it.

[1414] Yeah.

[1415] Just like you say I'm not shit.

[1416] I am the shit.

[1417] And I'm going to prove you wrong.

[1418] So that's, I agree.

[1419] Those three elements are so different than country or other genres of music.

[1420] There's also an implicit.

[1421] They're succeeding despite the system.

[1422] Which is really, again, aspirational.

[1423] Yes.

[1424] And so like I tapped into that big.

[1425] time.

[1426] Now, so I'm curious, the bravado thing, do you think it's a result at all of feeling emasculated by the hegemonic jock culture in high school, like the white hegemonic jock culture?

[1427] I don't know.

[1428] I mean, I don't know.

[1429] It just, it just spoke to me so much more than Blink 182.

[1430] Right, right, right.

[1431] Do you know what I mean?

[1432] Yeah.

[1433] There's the umph of it.

[1434] Who's your favorite rapper?

[1435] All time?

[1436] Yes.

[1437] So like my all time probably, in terms of hip hop icon is probably Tupac for what he like represented and then in terms of pure rapper and storyteller notorious b ig but my current like you know all time i'm a jehovah witness i'm a j z fan okay me too so okay great but what he had in terms of just body of work he has big radio records he has big mainstream records like you can go into a club and you hear girls going new york like he has songs like that empire state of mind and he has like real sort of like hip hop songs that hip hop heads love he has the full gamut.

[1438] But he also lived long enough to be great.

[1439] Yes, that's true.

[1440] Have you, have you guys heard of like the idea of like flow?

[1441] Oh yeah, yeah.

[1442] There's a certain, I'm really big on if you get into a creative flow, do not stop.

[1443] Yes, I'm with you.

[1444] Do not interrupt it for anything.

[1445] Ding dong, seamless is here.

[1446] Fuck seamless.

[1447] Yes.

[1448] Like we are in the zone.

[1449] I agree.

[1450] It's the most elusive.

[1451] Stay in the pocket.

[1452] Valuable.

[1453] And to me, like, I am constantly chasing that.

[1454] Whatever I can do to tap into that place.

[1455] Yes.

[1456] it's heaven do you have any hobbies that induce flow for you playing basketball okay yeah i love playing basketball you're playing what small forward generally uh or three guard i'm playing shooting guard okay okay okay oh number two okay all right okay because i'm not i'm at this point in my life where i'm not trying to get injured i'm here for high fives and butt slaps sure sure me on the perimeter okay i've been playing like like the warriors for years uh -huh you used to call it soft now you call it championship basketball that's right so i'm so glad they've indicated yeah yeah they really Yeah, yeah.

[1457] Me and my buddies all back home and Sacko have been like, hey man, we were doing this for a long time.

[1458] If we're really found something.

[1459] If we found something, I'm like, let's keep going and let's keep pushing on this.

[1460] And what I realized, the most important thing is, it's actually the take.

[1461] And if we're going and me and you are riffing on something, and I go, that take is fucking incredible.

[1462] I'll hit recording and then I go, let's go.

[1463] Let's start just doing, it's joke TK, joke to come.

[1464] Let's joke decay this right now.

[1465] And then tag it again, and tag it again, and tag it again, and then I'll hit and record.

[1466] That moment, I don't know what the moment.

[1467] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1468] That's magic, man. That's like what Jay -Z talks about in Fade of Black.

[1469] You leave the door open, Godwalks in the room.

[1470] I don't know what that is.

[1471] I'm chasing that.

[1472] Now, because I really want to drive home to your show because I really, really genuinely like it.

[1473] It does mean a lot.

[1474] I know that people have, like, fucking, they got kids, my boyfriend's girlfriend.

[1475] They have stuff to do.

[1476] Job.

[1477] How do I take esoteric topics and distill it into comedy espresso?

[1478] That was like a huge goal of the show.

[1479] And to make it visually beautiful and interesting.

[1480] Like the design, our graphics team and our news team, They're both top -notch.

[1481] Yes.

[1482] Our researchers are killing.

[1483] It's very well -produced.

[1484] Well, here's a compliment I'm going to give you that in our house, we call last week tonight church.

[1485] Wow.

[1486] As Monaco will confirm.

[1487] That's incredible.

[1488] On Sundays is we watch church.

[1489] That for us is the best show on the planet.

[1490] Do you watch last week tonight?

[1491] Of course, yeah.

[1492] It's incredible, right?

[1493] It's incredible.

[1494] I'm going to say your show is like knocking on the back door of that show.

[1495] It's that well done and it's that well.

[1496] You can tell the writing is there.

[1497] That means a lot.

[1498] Yeah.

[1499] Yeah.

[1500] Thank you.

[1501] And so it's in that realm.

[1502] And if people like last week tonight, I think they would really, really love your show.

[1503] I like it for that reason.

[1504] And now just tell me, because you guys both come from the John Stewart.

[1505] Daily.

[1506] What were they, what, what did they break or create that?

[1507] They taught you something there, huh?

[1508] Yes.

[1509] What is it?

[1510] Take is more important than joke.

[1511] It's the most.

[1512] So what I mean by that is what's the thesis statement of your piece?

[1513] And generally, that may or may not even be funny.

[1514] Right.

[1515] I'll give you the secret sauce.

[1516] right now okay can i take my pants off take it off okay um for example our amazon antitrust episode amazon has become so big i need the government to come in and save me from myself that's the whole piece right okay that's pretty good you don't need to go home i i saved you 26 minutes here it is it's a sentence take it for free right yeah supreme the take of the supreme piece is what is the intrinsic value of hype and the intrinsic value of hype is absolutely determined based on supply and demand that is it uh -huh yeah that's the we're building the whole episode around that right in whichever writer researcher newsperson whenever we're in the room i go yeah yeah that's great there's a joke here so -and -so did this gath this person has funny hair what's the take what is the one content summary of the whole thing our first episode affirmative action the Asians suing Harvard what's the take this one's funny really Asians this is the hill we're going to die on yes yes yes that's it that's it it was once yeah showrunner it's like yeah that's That's the episode.

[1517] Yeah.

[1518] Our entire lives we've gone chat on.

[1519] You have, you smell like Korean kimchi, you're small drives, you have small dicks.

[1520] Nothing.

[1521] The moment we can't get into Harvard.

[1522] I'll see you in court, motherfucker.

[1523] That's it.

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] You do that.

[1526] And if anyone is an aspiring writer or a person who wants to work in comedy, you do that.

[1527] You go into any room.

[1528] You will be one of the most successful people in this business, period.

[1529] Yeah.

[1530] Every person, whether you're at SNL, daily show, any of these shows, a writer's room for even like a sitcom or scripted show any person that brings that to the table in a writer's room of 15 people oh you're going to the fucking top because ideas are really the the and the best ideas are the things that give the showrunner and the creators of the show the show the most amount of ease they're dying yes they're dying to yo give me the take that we'll save this right this is what excites me is like the soccer ball of discourse usually gets passed back and forth laterally Trump bad bad Trump, bad Trump, Trump, bad, travol.

[1531] Okay, AOC cool.

[1532] AOC is cool.

[1533] Like, you just see it sort of being retweeted on Instagram and Twitter, just the same sort of talking points and gaffs and jokes.

[1534] Yes.

[1535] I love the thing that gets me excited is when you push that ball forward and you go, oh shit, we're going here.

[1536] Right.

[1537] No one has criticized the incumbent party in India.

[1538] Fuck it.

[1539] Let's go.

[1540] I love that shit.

[1541] You move the discourse forward.

[1542] You know, last Oliver's show is at its best when it does that and our show I think is at its best when it does that is the two things is number one oh my God thank you for saying that and since we're an international show there's so many people from around the world that go oh my God thank you for talking about the you know the elections in Thailand because there's hundreds of millions of people that are experiencing these things that in America our viewpoint is very myopic there's like three things that we're talking about it once and that's generally one yeah yeah oh my god thank you for talking about that or number two how have I been just living my life not knowing that yes that's how did i right how did i not know that i love giving that to people yes it's my greatest joy yeah and and i always want that emotional feeling to be in my work yeah you're right you you have gratitude like oh my god thanks for opening my eyes that yeah yeah oliver does that supreme yeah incredibly well and what they're going to tell me about fucking um uh clairvoyance yeah why do we need to talk about clairvoy and i'm like oh my god these people are bonkers They're out of their fucking mind.

[1543] And the funest part is when you push something in the world and it pushes you back.

[1544] That was fun.

[1545] Like when we did our Saudi Arabia episode, we pushed something and then the kingdom of Saudi Arabia takes it down.

[1546] Oh, I was wondering what the fallout from that was.

[1547] It's like, boom, boom, right?

[1548] Or you do something where like, hey, watch what happens when you control supply and demand.

[1549] So we did this thing on Supreme and we released these.

[1550] Fakes.

[1551] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1552] Sweatshirts and hoodies.

[1553] They all got sold out and then they immediately hit the resale market at a thousand percent.

[1554] Yes.

[1555] It's literally the thing that I'm like, watch what happens when you control supply and demand.

[1556] We're going to release this one.

[1557] Like, you push something in the world.

[1558] It pushes back.

[1559] I love that on the show.

[1560] And that's, again, another fun thing that happens on Oliver.

[1561] Yeah.

[1562] All the time is like, all of a sudden, you have these countries responding to him.

[1563] And it always, like, feels like, why are they even dignifying that show with a response?

[1564] But then they have to, that's fun.

[1565] It's really fun.

[1566] Absolutely.

[1567] That has to be so rewarding.

[1568] The thing that I'm going to try to lean more into as we continue to do the show is there's always been this dance between just like comedy and journalism like what what are what are we doing and and sort of the position has always been like hey we're just a comedy show right but there are these certain moments where it's like we're breaking news man we are the news yes and so we're starting to do on the show and we're leaning into this more it's like breaking news through primary source reporting and that to me is this new ocean where I'm just excited to dive into it man I don't know what's going to come from it we're probably going to get sued more but sure but I think it's really cool.

[1569] Yeah.

[1570] And how many episodes a year are you tasked to do?

[1571] We almost drop like a little podcast.

[1572] So like every cycle we'll do six or seven, then we'll take four to six weeks to write the next batch because I have to go into the field.

[1573] I got to interview and da -da -da -da.

[1574] And so we'll do about 20 to 24 per calendar year.

[1575] That's a lot.

[1576] It's a lot.

[1577] It's, it's the hardest.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] I've worked in my life.

[1580] And hopefully you'll somehow figure out how to, I think the hardest thing.

[1581] I don't know if it is hard for you, but to entrust people.

[1582] Yeah.

[1583] It took me like Monica.

[1584] And Monica is one of the first human beings where I'm like, yes, go edit the show.

[1585] I'm such a control freak, but I'm like, I believe that we have the same opinion on what this show should be.

[1586] Really?

[1587] Go do it.

[1588] But I couldn't have done that six years ago.

[1589] It comes with aid.

[1590] It took me till 43 to delegate something that's so important to me, but it can happen.

[1591] And it's like if you maybe, let's say you spend 60 hours a week doing this thing.

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] If you spent 30 hours for two weeks finding someone who you really could delegate certain things to, I think that's the kind of crack the code where you could have a hard job, but not an all -consuming job.

[1594] Yeah.

[1595] Because somehow these folks, the older folks, they figure out how to do it eventually.

[1596] Yeah, yeah, totally.

[1597] You know, and it works.

[1598] How do these moguls do it?

[1599] Or are they just running on a whole other?

[1600] Conventional wisdom is that they must be overseen every single thing.

[1601] That's why companies get great or are not great, right?

[1602] That's the kind of Apple Steve Jobs myth is that like he's got to be in every, but then I have to imagine that's just not true that some people are, the best book I could ever recommend to anyone to read, you should read, if you read, if you read Titan, the John D. Rockefeller Rockefeller biography.

[1603] Okay.

[1604] Best biography I've ever read in my life.

[1605] Titan.

[1606] This motherfucker took naps every single day.

[1607] There's never been a more successful human being than him.

[1608] Right.

[1609] And he had dudes he trusted.

[1610] They had a conference table where they had their meetings, but he had a. couch and he doze in and out he'd take his naps he'd wake up he'd like have a high level thought throw it on the table go back to sleep like he was not a control freak weirdly oh wow yeah and the things he thought of and did are incredible i think yeah you just have to find people that you feel like share your brain which is very hard to find how long did you guys know each other six years five six years yeah yeah yeah yeah our our friendship was forged in fighting about adon did you like cereal yeah of course yeah Yeah, we were obsessed with it and we got in big fights about it.

[1611] What is it about murder documentaries that we really like tapping into?

[1612] Why do we like this so much?

[1613] Because there's also this philosophical part of me that's just like, hey, there's real people here.

[1614] Yes, the characters in this story really have parents.

[1615] This isn't Game of Thrones.

[1616] Yeah.

[1617] Right.

[1618] You know, if the Lannisters die, no, this is a person who's in prison for life.

[1619] Like, I go through this weird thing and I go, what is it about us?

[1620] Well, we love this.

[1621] I read a book that I believe this theory.

[1622] The book's called On Killing, is written by a professor at Annapolis, who was also in Vietnam, really interesting guy, psychologist.

[1623] His theory is that we used to, 100 years ago, grandma and grandpa died in your house.

[1624] You buried grandma and grandpa in the backyard.

[1625] You also processed chickens.

[1626] You process cows.

[1627] You had all this intimate experience with death.

[1628] Yeah.

[1629] First hand, you watched everyone in your family die.

[1630] Yeah.

[1631] And as we've removed that experience from our lives, we have become obsessed with it because we have no personal understanding of it.

[1632] And that has led to a perverse obsession with it.

[1633] I think that, I buy that theory.

[1634] And then why that and then sex?

[1635] That's a big thing.

[1636] So he started by saying the history of sex, you know, we've been here 150 ,000 years.

[1637] We've only been living in separate bedrooms for the last 10 ,000.

[1638] So for 140 ,000 years, you lived in one room with mom and dad.

[1639] heard them fuck you saw them fuck you saw an aunt and uncle fuck you were around fucking all the time you had a very personal relationship with sex the noises the everything soon as people start living in multi -room homes and children are separated from that whole thing you start seeing a spike of all these weird proclivities you see sex crimes you see all these things documented where in the absence of firsthand knowledge we start filling in the blanks and that's where the perversions come from and i buy into that what do you think monica i i think all that holds water i think the murder stuff also could be that we feel a little bit better about our lives is when we hear horrible things about other people's lives, which is upsetting.

[1640] What I don't understand is totally hear you, but how is it a soothing thing that people are coming home to?

[1641] Whereas like when people go, hey, your show's pretty divisive, man. You're talking about politics.

[1642] And I go, no one's getting fucking murdered right in front of you.

[1643] Buddy of mine, his name is Romney.

[1644] He has a show coming out on Hulu called Rami.

[1645] I got to see it early.

[1646] It's going to be great, you guys.

[1647] Anybody who's listening, this show's amazing.

[1648] He told me something candidly.

[1649] He goes, every show that really pops has either fucking or killing in it.

[1650] Every show.

[1651] Any show that lowers those stakes, it's very difficult for...

[1652] To break through the noise.

[1653] It's why a thing like Seinfeld is such a unique and beautiful, like anomaly.

[1654] And I go, what is it about that?

[1655] And he goes, I think it's just the visceralness of it.

[1656] We want to feel something.

[1657] And like, when you talk about stakes, sex and murder are the two highest sort of physical stakes you can you can have yeah i think we just love to watch our fears get played out really i think to get our mirror neurons pop and you got to see someone fall and then you're like oh i don't want to fall in front of everyone like i just feel like it takes it you gotta we're pretty you know i know i know that works for i know that works for comedy when you're self -deprecating you make fun of yourself mm -hmm hey i'll pants myself yes you know we've all been afraid of being pants but all pants myself and it is a very i think endearing thing uh -huh and comforting yeah yeah attainable yeah we can all get pants i've seen that like only my friends would come to my open mics when i first started but i noticed that like if i told a story that i manipulated what something that happened to my other friend and i told that like oh this thing happened to me and blah blah blah and i owned it versus like my friend this happened yes the audience was like hey man we're with you yep like we get it i've been pants before in front of our my high school crush i get it you're a big fallible human being and i am too and now i'm with you yeah yeah yeah well Well, Hassan, I want to congratulate you.

[1658] You're the first guest that has succeeded in not letting me talk about his childhood.

[1659] So I just want to...

[1660] Are you serious?

[1661] Yes, all I talk about is childhood.

[1662] That's true.

[1663] I didn't even notice.

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] People should just watch the special if they had.

[1666] They really should.

[1667] They probably already have.

[1668] But you know what, Dax?

[1669] The reason why I wanted to do that is I didn't want to redo any other sort of like...

[1670] I'm fine.

[1671] Yeah.

[1672] I'm fine.

[1673] I just, there was something from your childhood that you wanted to talk about.

[1674] Well, there's something from your childhood that I find so unique and fascinating.

[1675] And it's not the...

[1676] immigrant stuff it's the mom disappeared for eight years sure i just find like that to me i just can't imagine that wouldn't have a lot of downstream things sure it's just a very unique thing yeah so my mom disappeared but was like work we need money that's number one then we can all have this and i imagine that's under the same like mom needs to become a doctor so yeah was that how it was pitched it was more of and i'm very lucky because my mom was very much in my life you know she did her residency in new york Then she moved to Stockton, then from Stockton, then we, you know, we, then we were all together in Davis.

[1677] So she was a great mom.

[1678] And I think I, my mom doesn't get enough credit for being the leader of our house.

[1679] She really was the leader.

[1680] And I think I've had conversation with my dad about this.

[1681] I'm like, dad, you got to give mom props.

[1682] And my sister has even told me this too.

[1683] She's like, do you know what mom did to make this all sort of happen?

[1684] Right.

[1685] Her vision to see stuff 10, 15, 20 years later is the reason why I don't have student loan debt.

[1686] You don't have student loan debt.

[1687] There's all these things that she laid out, like the mogul and titan that she was.

[1688] Yeah.

[1689] That I didn't fully understand until I was like 15, 16, 17.

[1690] I'm like, oh, right.

[1691] Like, mom's a gangster.

[1692] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1693] And I do kind of, you know, to go back to maybe your theory, I do kind of respect that about my wife.

[1694] She's like that.

[1695] Yeah.

[1696] Yeah, good.

[1697] We're better off.

[1698] We need someone to fucking run the show.

[1699] Right.

[1700] We're not to be, you know, someone's got to wield it over us a little bit.

[1701] Yeah.

[1702] Like, it's healthy.

[1703] Yeah.

[1704] Well, you're gorgeous and you're just a lovely human being.

[1705] I'm so glad this finally happened.

[1706] Thanks, man. You're so fun.

[1707] Please come back.

[1708] Thanks, Monica.

[1709] Bye.

[1710] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1711] I'm going to take my house down the old town road.

[1712] I'm going to ride till I can no more.

[1713] That song has nothing new with fact checks, but we were just, I just introduced that song to Monica.

[1714] And Wobbywob.

[1715] We've been infected by it, haven't we?

[1716] Yeah, it's a good one.

[1717] I like it.

[1718] How many times do you think you'll listen to it today?

[1719] Three?

[1720] Three times.

[1721] Yeah, I would say three times.

[1722] Okay, and if people haven't heard it, I think legally I can't play a lot of it.

[1723] That's the song.

[1724] And you know what I like about the video, Monica?

[1725] Tell me. Well, they cut to Will Smith in that beautiful white cowboy outfit, and he is dancing his ass off.

[1726] Yeah, he's a good dancing.

[1727] He looks really cool.

[1728] He's a cool dude in a loose mood.

[1729] He is swag.

[1730] Yeah, he does.

[1731] He does.

[1732] And he doesn't try to play it too.

[1733] cool because he's still goofy will smith now we've transitioned into will smith not billy ray cyrus or little maz little naws did i say it wrong will naws yeah um you just learned about the song you're already correcting me this is very typical i know about rappers okay i'm from the atl okay okay okay will smith goofy but that's part of it that swagger requires a little bit of that i guess what i'm saying is like elvis presley had swagger but he was never like cutting up you know he had to maintain the image or james dean right or james dean no he was very serious yeah denzel washington you know so what i'm saying is will keeps it pretty corny in a in the best way imaginable sure yet still pulling off sexiness and coolness yeah he's got that great frame it's that it's that it's his body yeah he's got a big body on him he does will smith if you're listening please bring that big beautiful body up to the attic i like to see it in person i i feel like he and I have the same frame.

[1734] Oh, interesting.

[1735] What do you think?

[1736] Not that mine is big and beautiful, but with that said, I think our endoskeleton is you would not be able to pick out the difference on.

[1737] If both of our skeletons were hanging on a hanger, you would have no idea which one was Bill Smith and which one was Dan Shepard.

[1738] I think they're probably similar, yeah, but I think they're different enough.

[1739] You know what's the difference?

[1740] His skin color?

[1741] Well, that's a different.

[1742] But on a skeleton, I wouldn't be able to tell that.

[1743] That's true unless some of it was left.

[1744] Actually, on a skeleton, I wouldn't really be able to tell this either.

[1745] But I do think that, okay, if you start at his shoulders, Mm -hmm.

[1746] Mm -hmm.

[1747] Okay, no. He's facing, he's in a profile.

[1748] Right.

[1749] Okay.

[1750] Right.

[1751] If you put your hands on the opposite side of his shoulder, one hand on each.

[1752] Does that make any sense?

[1753] Not really.

[1754] Yeah.

[1755] The width of his shoulders?

[1756] Like if I was standing here and I put one hand here and one hand here, if I was doing this.

[1757] Okay.

[1758] Uh -huh.

[1759] How do I describe that?

[1760] The depth of the shoulder.

[1761] Okay, sort of.

[1762] I'm just saying if I put my hands on his shoulders and I go all the way down with my hands, and he's at profile, I think he's the same.

[1763] I feel like he's like a box.

[1764] Right.

[1765] You know.

[1766] He'd be like a perfect rectangle.

[1767] Exactly.

[1768] Okay, thin.

[1769] Uniform depth.

[1770] Yeah.

[1771] And me, you think it would be what?

[1772] I think you're, you start a little wider.

[1773] A top heavy.

[1774] You get a little skinny.

[1775] I don't have the legs or ass.

[1776] Yeah.

[1777] But I don't know that our femurs are much different size or ilium or ischium.

[1778] Maybe.

[1779] Yeah.

[1780] I don't know about that.

[1781] We'll see when we're dead.

[1782] You'll be here.

[1783] Long after Will Smith and I are here.

[1784] Maybe you can exhum our skeletons.

[1785] Maybe when he comes, we'll kill you guys.

[1786] Ooh, can we get Dr. Toll.

[1787] couple to do a scan of us?

[1788] That'd be great.

[1789] And do a 3D imaging of our endos.

[1790] Anyways, Will Smith, boy, we're big fans.

[1791] We love Will Smith, Willie.

[1792] Big Willie.

[1793] I really liked him on the Magic Show documentary.

[1794] Oh, yes.

[1795] Billy, David Blaine.

[1796] Was he on David Blaine's?

[1797] Yes, he was.

[1798] He and Jada and the kids, right?

[1799] Yes, and it was so sweet.

[1800] They were all so cute as a little family.

[1801] Yeah, he seems like the funnest dad on the planet.

[1802] He's so supportive, too, of those kids.

[1803] Yeah.

[1804] Or he's great at just curating that image for me because it's working.

[1805] Yeah.

[1806] I mean, I'm sure, you know, he's a real person.

[1807] There's more too.

[1808] He's probably bipolar.

[1809] No. Yeah, they probably find, by the way, two things.

[1810] One, there was an article in this women's study journal I read yesterday.

[1811] They're looking into fecal transplants for bipolar.

[1812] Oh, that's amazing.

[1813] Yeah, they're finding that they have different microbes or not, they don't have the right microbes.

[1814] Wouldn't that be fascinating if we.

[1815] poop what had been the answer from day one.

[1816] I know.

[1817] That would justify my poop obsession.

[1818] Me and Aaron Weekly.

[1819] Did I show you, so when you do a talk show, you do a pre -interview like a day before, right?

[1820] And then when you get to the talk show, in this case, it was Conan.

[1821] They've printed out pretty much what you talked to the pre -interviewer on the phone about.

[1822] And so when they handed me the piece of paper so I could glance at what stories we were going to tell.

[1823] In her notes, she wrote this.

[1824] I was discussing the Ball Sack Cowboy painting that you have in your house.

[1825] Okay.

[1826] And this is a quote from me, my best friend Harry Winkley, and I became friends over drawing, Harry Winkley.

[1827] Yeah.

[1828] So I sent that to Aaron Winkley, and he said he's going to legally change his name tomorrow morning to Harry Winkley.

[1829] Your best friend, Harry Winkley.

[1830] Harry Winkley.

[1831] It's like a telephone game, you know.

[1832] The more people who hear it, the less it resembles the original thing.

[1833] That's exactly.

[1834] And then, okay, and then one other thing, you thought my invention was so silly.

[1835] No, I did not.

[1836] But also really quick, Aaron probably deserves this because of Terrence Posner.

[1837] It's all coming back around.

[1838] You're absolutely right.

[1839] And we used to call him Sharon Beakley a lot.

[1840] Like my group of friends called him Sharon Beakley all the time.

[1841] Okay, so your invention.

[1842] Okay, my invention that you scoffed at turns out already exists.

[1843] The birth control or the other one?

[1844] Nope.

[1845] Through high -frequency chest wall oscillation technology, the vest airway clearance system dislodges mucus from the brocule walls immobilizes secretions and mucus from the smaller to larger airways where it can be cleared by coughing or suctioning.

[1846] How does it suction?

[1847] Well, you'd probably have to put a tube down there if you're a position.

[1848] Sure.

[1849] That sounds intense.

[1850] There's already a vibration mucus dislodger.

[1851] That's great.

[1852] So I was on to something.

[1853] This is called The Vest.

[1854] Okay.

[1855] I guess my main, you know, you can't have an invention and then start an invention and then expect everyone to just say, oh, it's great.

[1856] Don't you want me to poke holes?

[1857] I mean, if I made an invention, you'd be just laundry listing things that I could better.

[1858] It depends.

[1859] If the invention was a great idea, I would first be excited for you for that breakthrough and thinking.

[1860] And then I might ask some follow -up, you know, research and design questions just to help you kind of refine your invention.

[1861] But I feel like if you invented something substantial, like I did last week, and it was already in the marketplace, you know.

[1862] Mm -hmm.

[1863] Mm -hmm.

[1864] Well, my point was how many people are going to be using this invention?

[1865] And I think I'm still on to something here because this is a real invention that we don't know about.

[1866] So it's not prevalent enough that people are using it.

[1867] You have this issue and you don't even know about it.

[1868] Well, now I do.

[1869] Are you going to get one?

[1870] But I just wanted you to be impressed that I had thought of a solution to this that actually was a solution.

[1871] I guess that's all I was looking for.

[1872] I think I'm going to buy this.

[1873] Assuming it's not like an $80 ,000 medical device.

[1874] Yeah.

[1875] Although the fact that it said suctioning makes me think this is from doctors offices.

[1876] Yeah.

[1877] But what a better solution than a bunch of medicine.

[1878] Yeah, I agree.

[1879] Just use good old Mother Nature sound waves.

[1880] Mm -hmm.

[1881] I wonder if it'd be hard to sleep.

[1882] I don't know that you, I don't think you sleep in it.

[1883] Oh, your invention was for sleeping.

[1884] No. You said it.

[1885] We'll go back.

[1886] We can check the tapes.

[1887] But I promise you said you sleep on it.

[1888] You sleep with it on your chest.

[1889] And then in the morning, then you're clear.

[1890] Oh, I can't rate to rewind the tapes.

[1891] Me either.

[1892] We might have to go back to the original tapes because I don't.

[1893] I don't remember what I cut.

[1894] Okay.

[1895] Hosson fact check.

[1896] Hosson fact check.

[1897] Yeah.

[1898] He was fantastic.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] Oh.

[1901] He was.

[1902] He really stuck up for me. Oh, he loved you.

[1903] I said stuck.

[1904] That's not a word.

[1905] No, but you can always change tenses here.

[1906] I'm a big fan of sacame.

[1907] Right.

[1908] Cicada.

[1909] Yeah.

[1910] What is it?

[1911] D .C. D .C. Wait, what?

[1912] The Southeast.

[1913] Oh, oh, Dezzi.

[1914] Yeah, he had a lot of Dezzi pride.

[1915] Yeah.

[1916] appropriately so with you.

[1917] He did.

[1918] And you were his Desi sister and he was looking out.

[1919] He was.

[1920] And I liked it.

[1921] Yeah, me too.

[1922] I almost punched him out a couple times and I was like, that's, I stick up for her.

[1923] Not you, partner.

[1924] Okay.

[1925] Yeah, you've just wandered into the wrong territory.

[1926] Oh, my goodness.

[1927] Okay.

[1928] He was like a big Savannah cat sniffing around here.

[1929] I was like, look at this Maine.

[1930] I'm 44.

[1931] You see the width of it?

[1932] Wow, wow, wow, wow.

[1933] You didn't know all that was happening?

[1934] There's a lot of stuff happening in your brain.

[1935] Okay.

[1936] I did not know.

[1937] You know, plenty of people can protect it.

[1938] once well all right i think the subtext was i wasn't doing a good job protecting you so he had to come in here from another pride oh this is so your brain i'm surprised he can kill wabiwob our offspring so that you'd become fertile again you know that's what the males do oh wow if they overthrow the alpha lion they quickly kill all the cubs so the female go into estrus again and he can have some of his own isn't that my goodness he didn't want a piece he just was Don't fool yourself.

[1939] He did not.

[1940] He just wanted me to speak up.

[1941] He loves that, Desi.

[1942] I'm so new to it.

[1943] No, I think that's right.

[1944] Okay, Desi.

[1945] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1946] I think, you know, to be honest, it's a new word for me, too.

[1947] And I don't know if it's a new word.

[1948] Yeah, it feels like a new word.

[1949] It feels new because I'm just now hearing it.

[1950] And it's short.

[1951] Carson said it.

[1952] Mindy has said it a couple times.

[1953] Speaking of that, that can be our first fact.

[1954] Because you mentioned that Mindy on Fresh Air, her interview, you wanted a little bit more her talking about her Indian culture.

[1955] Yeah.

[1956] And her background and stuff like that because you felt like she really broke a barrier and she should acknowledge that.

[1957] So Mindy is doing so much currently for the Indian community.

[1958] Yeah.

[1959] And is being really vocal about her connection to it.

[1960] And, you know, she has a show for Netflix.

[1961] And she put out like a cast.

[1962] Fifteen thousand people.

[1963] Isn't that exciting?

[1964] Yeah, it is.

[1965] Casting called all the Indian peeps.

[1966] And I'm so devastated that I cannot.

[1967] I'm ineligible for this.

[1968] Well, by choice.

[1969] No, no, no. Yeah.

[1970] You said you can't do the accent.

[1971] And I said, well, let me teach you.

[1972] And you said, no. Well, no. The part is for a little, a teenager.

[1973] You could play a teen.

[1974] That's what I thought.

[1975] Yeah, you'd have to duct tape your faties down.

[1976] No, they existed back then.

[1977] at what age Teenager for sure Oh Jesus Wow You think these came in an adult No they come at puberty Well they're very adult So yeah I assume they came in adulthood That's not how the female body works You're saying you were when you were 14 you had those When I hit puberty they came in yeah You're lucky you weren't up in Michigan You would have had to leave school in eighth grade Because you were pregnant Oh God Yeah some 30 year old man would have been hitting on you That's horrible cigarettes Sounds a little rapy.

[1978] I'm just saying a couple different girls left my eighth grade.

[1979] Because of their matchies?

[1980] Well, they were pregnant.

[1981] Not by 30 -year -olds.

[1982] No, but not by 12 -year -olds.

[1983] They were, you know, like 19 -year -old dudes.

[1984] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1985] Are they in jail?

[1986] No, you know, you know, I say this with love.

[1987] There was a good, there was a white trash contingency, and I was in and out of that contingency.

[1988] And it was not uncommon for an eighth -grade.

[1989] to become pregnant by an older white trash man. But still illegal.

[1990] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1991] Yeah.

[1992] So, and no one, but no one just cared, I guess.

[1993] Well, you know, there's things that are laws and then they're just unenforced, depending on the culture of that area.

[1994] That's true.

[1995] It's kind of like the whole, the feuds in Kentucky.

[1996] Those people would stand trial and they completely get off.

[1997] They're like, oh, yeah, if someone kills your brother, you could, like, there's a long history of them just going like, oh, we're going to interpret these laws how we want.

[1998] Do you think the dad's stuck around?

[1999] I do not, Monica.

[2000] Did they stook around?

[2001] I think half of them didn't even make it to their 30s and then, you know, but what do I know?

[2002] Maybe some of them are great dads.

[2003] This is a sad story.

[2004] Also, we were talking about Indians and I steered it right into white trash.

[2005] But anyway, so Mindy is really doing a lot.

[2006] And that's awesome.

[2007] Was I clear, though, that, like, I a million percent understand why she doesn't want that to be the topic.

[2008] Yeah.

[2009] I was just saying me personally, I was very interested in that aspect of the story.

[2010] Yeah, of course.

[2011] Yeah.

[2012] And I just, we just don't know what's happening in that interview.

[2013] Who knows?

[2014] It might not have been her actively trying to not bring it up or whatever.

[2015] But, oh, yeah, because also she's on Instagram.

[2016] She's like highlighting an Indian woman kind of every week or every couple weeks or something.

[2017] Okay.

[2018] So far, I've not been on there, but fingers crossed.

[2019] Yeah.

[2020] I do think it's sort of new -ish where she's really leaning in, which I really, really like.

[2021] But I was looking at this and I was like, she probably doesn't like me because I'm pretty vocal about how much I've been.

[2022] How vocal you are that you're white.

[2023] Well, how vocal I am that I've been avoiding that my whole life.

[2024] Mm -hmm.

[2025] I don't think so.

[2026] She probably doesn't love that.

[2027] I'm probably doing them a disservice.

[2028] I think you love her, you admire her, and you would want her very much to like you.

[2029] So you're, yeah, you're thinking of reasons she wouldn't, just because you do like her so much.

[2030] I think she would be, if any human being would be sympathetic to your journey, it would be her.

[2031] That's true.

[2032] But there is this a little bit of a mind fuck when you're a minority.

[2033] This happens like, this was the fascinating element of the OJ documentary, the six -parter, is that, you know, Remember, he said, I'm not black.

[2034] I'm O .J. Like, he wanted...

[2035] His own identity.

[2036] Yeah.

[2037] Which is, like, very understandable.

[2038] There's so many layers of mind fuck.

[2039] It is.

[2040] It is.

[2041] Because you also, especially if you're doing something where there's talent or intelligence involved, you know, you want to be in the pool with everybody.

[2042] Yeah.

[2043] Like, she's the funniest.

[2044] Not she's the funniest Indian person.

[2045] Well, both.

[2046] She's both the funniest and then by default makes her the funniest Indian person.

[2047] Well, right, but that's not like no one else is getting those distinctions where it almost feels like it's less.

[2048] It feels like that.

[2049] It's not, but it feels like that.

[2050] And again, I don't even know Mindy, so I would be totally speculating here.

[2051] But I couldn't at least imagine her story being exactly that.

[2052] I don't want to be the funny Indian girl.

[2053] I always want to be the funniest writer.

[2054] Exactly.

[2055] And then feeling a little insecure for a while about that.

[2056] And then coming to have real self -esteem and confidence in recognizing, no, I did make it.

[2057] And now I don't feel that pressure.

[2058] And now I'm going to open it up, which is all fine.

[2059] Oh, okay.

[2060] So he said that this cut out on the wall here is from People magazine.

[2061] But it's not, right?

[2062] It's from us weekly.

[2063] Yeah, they're the nicest.

[2064] Really?

[2065] I'm being ironic.

[2066] I mean, they do polls like this.

[2067] Sure, sure.

[2068] Like, do you hate Jack Shepherd?

[2069] Sure.

[2070] What a kind poll to.

[2071] Well, not what you have.

[2072] hate would you date.

[2073] Oh, I mixed up one letter.

[2074] You did a rhyming, yeah.

[2075] Yeah, you did a rhyming snafu.

[2076] Also do like, do you hate Amy Winehouse's style?

[2077] Like, what a nice...

[2078] Do you like Amy's style?

[2079] Yeah, it's the same thing.

[2080] It's the same.

[2081] Yeah.

[2082] Yeah, it's mean.

[2083] It's all mean.

[2084] I don't like any of it.

[2085] Okay, so Austin acted like he was not all that rare in being a tall Indian.

[2086] And he's wrong.

[2087] Yeah, and he was saying all of his cousins are hotter than him.

[2088] Yeah.

[2089] And I, look, they might be maybe their genes clearly are just attractive.

[2090] So maybe there's a bunch of them that are.

[2091] Yeah.

[2092] But I just don't know about that.

[2093] So the average height of an Indian woman is five feet.

[2094] You're above average.

[2095] I'm above average.

[2096] Yeah.

[2097] Extra half inch.

[2098] A half inch above average.

[2099] And average for a man, this is according to new research report from the Imperial College of London.

[2100] Five feet, four point nine inches.

[2101] So, Hassan is way above average.

[2102] He's in the 99 % time.

[2103] Also, I asked my mom, I was like, is it common for an Indian man to be over six feet?

[2104] And she said, the ones raised here tend to be taller.

[2105] Mm -hmm.

[2106] And then I said, why do you think that is?

[2107] Maybe food.

[2108] And she said, yeah, calcium.

[2109] And then I said, no, because they are taking in a lot of calcium there with all the yogurt.

[2110] The milk.

[2111] Milk.

[2112] Then my mom was like, well, it's not actually that much yogurt.

[2113] And then I stopped talking to her.

[2114] Okay.

[2115] Then I was like, I can't do this conversation anymore.

[2116] I'm going to make an observation.

[2117] I grew up in a suburb of Detroit.

[2118] Detroit for a while was the blackest city in the country.

[2119] I don't know if it still is.

[2120] It was 92 % black at one point.

[2121] The dudes in Detroit were big, big dudes.

[2122] They were bigger than us white dudes on average, for sure.

[2123] more muscular, taller, everything.

[2124] I went to Africa.

[2125] I was bigger than everybody.

[2126] Sure.

[2127] I couldn't.

[2128] It was, I was having such a crazy, like, oh, my God, I'm bigger than everyone.

[2129] I don't think I met someone in two and a half weeks that was my height or even weight.

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] And it became, like, glaringly obvious what the slave trade did to a group of people.

[2132] Exactly.

[2133] It's so startling.

[2134] Yeah.

[2135] Yeah.

[2136] That's really crazy.

[2137] Yeah.

[2138] And that might be part of this, too, but I feel like way less because I do think a lot of Indians marry other Indians, especially like a generation or two ago.

[2139] Right.

[2140] Maybe the new kids now that are babies will, they'll be, it's going to get a little bit more diluted.

[2141] Yeah.

[2142] In the traditional Indian culture, they just want to keep everyone Indian as much as possible.

[2143] Pure or they want to stay pure like you.

[2144] Yeah, like me. Yeah, pure.

[2145] 100 % pure.

[2146] 100 % pure.

[2147] Okay, so you said kids make 70 % of marriages worse.

[2148] For around 30 years, researchers have studied how having children affects a marriage and the results are conclusive.

[2149] The relationship between spouses suffers once kids come along.

[2150] Comparing couples with and without children, researchers found that the rate of the decline in relationship satisfaction is nearly twice as steep for couples who have children than for childless couples.

[2151] In the event that a pregnancy is unplanned, the parents experience even a greater negative impact on the relationship.

[2152] So, also according to the Washington Post, researchers followed 2016 Germans who were childless at the time the study began until at least two years after the birth of their first child.

[2153] Respondents were asked to rate their happiness from zero, completely dissatisfied to 10, completely satisfied in response to the question, how satisfied are you with your life all things considered?

[2154] They found that most couples in their study started out pretty happy when they set out to have their first child.

[2155] In the year prior to the birth, their life satisfaction ticked up even more, perhaps due to the pregnancy and anticipation of the baby.

[2156] It was only after birth that the parents' experiences diverged.

[2157] About 30 % remained at about the same state of happiness or better once they had a baby, according to self -reported measures of well -being.

[2158] The rest said their happiness decreased during the first and second year after the birth.

[2159] To put things in perspective, previous studies have quantified the impact of other major life events on the same happiness scale in this way.

[2160] Divorce, the equivalent of a 0 .6 happiness unit drop, unemployment, a one unit drop and the death of a partner, a one unit drop.

[2161] And what was the child, a one unit drop?

[2162] 37 % of those people reported a one unit drop.

[2163] 19 % a 2 unit drop and 17 % a 3 unit drop.

[2164] Oh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

[2165] So.

[2166] Rob, where are you at on your drive?

[2167] I think I'm I'm the same you're the same that's good for you on your drop it's really complicated and it seems like it's too simple of a question because in some ways it's worse in some ways it's better you know the the shared joy is unique you know it's it goes up the kind of pride in the team effort is up the time with each other goes down and that part goes down yeah so it's it's it's it goes up the kind of pride you know the team effort is up the time with each other goes down and that part goes down yeah so it's It would be hard.

[2168] You know, maybe it's a net zero, like up in some areas and down in others.

[2169] Yeah.

[2170] And I don't think this is necessarily specific about the couple.

[2171] It's just like general happiness levels, which is a big element of it, but also just like stress.

[2172] If you ask me, it'd have to be specific, not as one of my overall joy level with kids now.

[2173] If you ask that, you'd get a high number because the kids have made my life happier.

[2174] If you ask just specifically about my relationship, is it gone on?

[2175] up or down that I could see that being neutral or gone down in some areas and up in others.

[2176] Right.

[2177] You know, right before we had Lincoln, we went to Africa for two weeks.

[2178] Mm -hmm.

[2179] And you're just talking the whole time and connecting and interacting.

[2180] And of course, that's going to result in more happiness with each other, I think.

[2181] Yeah.

[2182] As soon as half your conversations are about two little assholes.

[2183] Right.

[2184] It's going to take a hit.

[2185] Right.

[2186] Esther said, you become an organization.

[2187] Mm -hmm.

[2188] Yeah.

[2189] That's true.

[2190] And, you know, the other part is when you're in a relationship, you're compromising on whatever shared task you're going to have, whether it's dinner or what vacation you're taking.

[2191] But such a big chunk of your life is just yours and you don't need to compromise about it.

[2192] But now that these kids are involved, you're going to have his opposite views on those kids as you would about dinner or a vacation or a movie, anything.

[2193] But now this thing is taking up 80 % of your day as the kids and that of itself is a compromise.

[2194] yeah most times yeah okay so employee of the month came out in 2006 oh yeah oh because he knew the poster yeah he knew the poster although for sure he was made he was gonna be embarrassed for me but he wasn't no he felt like he wanted to be on that shopping cart yeah he he liked the idea that a comedian dane and you could be in comedy clubs and then be on the poster of a big movie yeah And then he said the thing about Harold and Kumar, which was sweet.

[2195] Yeah.

[2196] But then I felt bad when I heard that because I, because when I saw the trailer for Bend at like Beckham, I was so embarrassed.

[2197] You were.

[2198] Yes.

[2199] I was so mad at it and so embarrassed.

[2200] That the topic would be on the table all the time now.

[2201] Yeah.

[2202] People want to talk to you about being Indian maybe.

[2203] It's just more now people are going to see that I'm also Indian.

[2204] It's so stupid.

[2205] Yeah.

[2206] That's really stupid.

[2207] I think it's very normal.

[2208] I don't.

[2209] I don't think it's normal.

[2210] I think what he's doing is normal where he's seeing something and he's like, hey, that's me. That's awesome.

[2211] I'm happy about this.

[2212] I'm prideful in this.

[2213] I don't think what I have is normal.

[2214] I hope it's not normal.

[2215] That's horrible.

[2216] I think it's all based on whether or not you are successful at assimilating or not.

[2217] Like if you're pulling it.

[2218] off this big ruse, then, yeah, you don't want anyone to blow your cover.

[2219] Yeah, but that's not good.

[2220] If you're not pulling off.

[2221] Yeah, I just think trying to label something good or bad is not productive or useful.

[2222] There's no good or bad.

[2223] You're a kid and that's how you felt.

[2224] I know, but it is not helpful to be obsessed with avoiding a big part of you.

[2225] Oh, most certainly.

[2226] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2227] I just think like good, bad.

[2228] I don't know.

[2229] That's a little bit of a judgment.

[2230] I don't think necessarily.

[2231] Okay.

[2232] You said there's a study about parents now spending more time with their kids than in the 50s.

[2233] Someone from the University of California, Irvine, found that modern mothers from 11 wealthy Western country spent close to an hour more taking care of their kids in 2012 than mothers did in 1965.

[2234] Dads now spent almost an hour partaking in child care activities compared to fathers in 1965, who just spent 16 minutes on average.

[2235] There we go.

[2236] That trend.

[2237] 16 minutes.

[2238] On average.

[2239] That's like just getting your coffee in the morning and acknowledging them.

[2240] Well, yeah.

[2241] The trend held true not only for parents who are highly educated, but also for those who are not.

[2242] It also rang true for caregivers in Britain, Canada, Germany, Denmark, Italy, Netherlands, Slovenia, Spain, and the U .S. The only country that saw slight declines in time spent parenting was France, where the ethos of natural motherhood meant French mothers were already steeped.

[2243] in demanding child wearing practices, like lengthy breastfeeding and the management of cloth diapers.

[2244] By the way, I need that vibrating vest.

[2245] Can you hear this morning?

[2246] I've had a couple of rude throat clears on the program and I apologize, but I need that vest.

[2247] Should I do a go fund me?

[2248] Maybe somebody will buy a $2 ,000 mug and donate the money to your fund.

[2249] To my chest vibrator?

[2250] Yeah.

[2251] Okay.

[2252] So you mentioned John D. Rockefeller and you said he wasn't a control free.

[2253] And then I was reading up on him.

[2254] I really didn't know much about him.

[2255] He's so interesting.

[2256] For me, for my money, he's the most fascinating American of all time.

[2257] Also, so philanthropic.

[2258] Oh, he changed this world, perhaps more than any other American.

[2259] Because in the late 1800s when he became wealthy, there was no bar for medical education.

[2260] There was no standard.

[2261] So what he did is he said, who?

[2262] who's training the best doctors?

[2263] And it was John Hopkins.

[2264] And he took their curriculum and he went to every medical school and said, I will give you an endowment if you adopt this.

[2265] Wow.

[2266] He did things like back then there was this pervasive stereotype about Southerners that they were lazy.

[2267] And what he discovered was there was something like 30 % or even higher of Southerners suffered from a hookworm.

[2268] So you get hookworm in your foot because a lot of Southerners didn't wear shoes.

[2269] Sure.

[2270] They get hookworm, and if you get hookworm, it does make you super lethargic.

[2271] And you can treat it really easy with like an iodine cycle or something.

[2272] So then he spent all this money having a group travel around the South and educate people.

[2273] First, he'd get rid of the hookworm.

[2274] And then he would educate people to wear shoes.

[2275] So any problem that could be solved, he did.

[2276] He was also super into integrating black folks into colleges.

[2277] He started a lot of colleges for black folks.

[2278] He started University of Chicago.

[2279] He didn't put his name on anything.

[2280] Unlike Carnegie, he was putting his name on everything.

[2281] Yeah, that's exciting.

[2282] I think there's also some bad stuff about him, too.

[2283] No, the only bad stuff is the antitrust stuff, that he had a monopoly, right?

[2284] But if you read Titan, here's what, here's his monopoly.

[2285] So a big baked in cost was railroad transportation, right?

[2286] So the, he started, standard started as a lamp fuel.

[2287] companies.

[2288] So they would refine crude oil in Cleveland.

[2289] And then most of it would end up on railroad cars going to New York.

[2290] And then that would get shipped across the Atlantic.

[2291] There were set prices for that.

[2292] But he went to the railroads and said, listen, I have figured out the reason it cost this much is because you have a train going out that's got train cars from 50 different companies.

[2293] So you're going to have to stop 26 places along the way to New York.

[2294] And that's why it's costing so much.

[2295] So what I'm going to do is I'll build my own railroad cars.

[2296] You don't even have to build them.

[2297] And then the entire train will be filled with my railroad cards.

[2298] I will promise you that I'm going to put 60 cars on that next train so you only have to make one stop, New York.

[2299] And I'm going to do that, but I want this rate.

[2300] And the railroad company was like, yes, we're going to make more money and you're going to make more money.

[2301] And that practice was frowned upon.

[2302] But when I'm looking at that, I'm like, yeah, that was a great idea.

[2303] Both parties won.

[2304] Okay, so he had an unfair advantage over other oil refineries in Cleveland.

[2305] But that was through his own genius.

[2306] Right.

[2307] And then instead of competing with companies, he bought them all.

[2308] Because here's another big thing.

[2309] Back then, there were these cyclical booms in oil production, right?

[2310] So it was all getting drilled in Pennsylvania.

[2311] And there would be, you know, one week lamp oil would be $10 a gallon.

[2312] The next week would be 50 cents a gallon.

[2313] And somebody needed to stabilize that market the government wasn't doing it and it was terrible for everyone involved the consumer the producers everything so he said i'm going to own all of the refinery so it doesn't really matter what happens to the boom and bust of the production line i will i will store some and then i'll have a consistent flow of output and that's going to stabilize the price which it did but again he created a monopoly in order to do that so yes monopolies are bad yes blah blah but he was by no means an evil dude he like all of his kind of aspirations were for the good of everything.

[2314] So the government ultimately broke up the standard oil empire.

[2315] And the way they did it was they just took his company and they made him create like 12 other companies.

[2316] And when they did that, that's what made him a billionaire.

[2317] At the time, he was only worth like $200 and some million.

[2318] And the punishment they gave him resulted in him overnight becoming a billionaire because all 12 of those companies now went up in huge value.

[2319] And they made him even richer.

[2320] but also backfired for them.

[2321] Do you wish you were a teacher ever?

[2322] No. You don't?

[2323] No, should I be one?

[2324] I feel like you'd like to do that.

[2325] I'm trying to decide if that was a compliment or if you were like, you're a no -it -all.

[2326] You should go -oh.

[2327] No. No, you're not a know -it -all, but you like sharing knowledge.

[2328] I do, yeah, things I find fascinating.

[2329] I play it out in my head.

[2330] And, yes, if I had 30 students like you, I would, love to be a teacher yeah no if i had 10 students like daks i would fucking shoot myself i don't know i think you'd also like the challenge of that um blocking horns with a young a young buck lava of young buck lava oh i hope they don't spread their buck lava all over the classroom oh geez yeah that's something to intimidate me yeah that's something to clean up no i just think in another life maybe you would like to do that.

[2331] It would be a good profession for you.

[2332] Maybe I'll do it.

[2333] Well, we're returning to college, you and I, so we'll start racking up like master's degrees and stuff.

[2334] And then maybe you'll just TA.

[2335] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2336] Anyway, that's all.

[2337] All right.

[2338] Well, that was great.

[2339] I love seeing you guys bond up and take me down.

[2340] We did not take you down.

[2341] All right.

[2342] Bye.

[2343] Bye.

[2344] Love you.

[2345] Love you.

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