Prince Harry

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] Expert, son, expert.

[2] I'm Dan Shepard.

[3] I'm joined by Monica Mouse.

[4] Hello.

[5] Special day.

[6] Very special, particularly for you as a royal file.

[7] I can't believe it.

[8] I still can't believe it and we did it.

[9] Refused to believe it.

[10] Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex.

[11] Of course, he's a member of the British Royal family, the younger son of Charles, Prince of Wales and Diana Princess of Wales.

[12] Radical dude.

[13] So cool.

[14] Had zero idea of what kind of guy he was.

[15] Yeah.

[16] I thought he was going to be a little more stiff, like a little bit royal.

[17] Yes.

[18] And he was very fun.

[19] He was just a rad dude.

[20] Before you enjoy Prince Harry, we have an enormous announcement.

[21] Yeah.

[22] We hear Rob, Monica and I at Armchair Expert are going to go to Spotify.

[23] That's right.

[24] In July, exclusively, and we will be doing the exact same show you've always loved, or hopefully you love.

[25] And we're going to be doing it on a platform with more fun features and more ways to get involved with the community.

[26] Yeah.

[27] And it's going to be wonderful.

[28] So if you haven't already, please download the Spotify app.

[29] Get on that.

[30] And listen to us there.

[31] Starting in July, it will be the only place you can listen to us.

[32] So get on it now.

[33] And, yeah, same show.

[34] And we hope you will all join us because we love doing this more than any other thing we do.

[35] Now, please enjoy Prince Harry.

[36] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[37] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[38] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[39] He's an armchair expert.

[40] What was your feeling about Joe Rogan's comments about vaccinating?

[41] Ridiculous, obviously.

[42] And I side with him.

[43] Get comfy, though.

[44] We want you to be relaxed.

[45] There is.

[46] Yeah, there it is.

[47] There we go.

[48] So I think what he said was ridiculous.

[49] And I also a little bit agree with him, like, I fucking call fights.

[50] I'm an MMA announcer.

[51] I'm not Fauci.

[52] No one should be listening to my opinion on medical shit.

[53] So I agree with both sides.

[54] Like, what he said was stupid.

[55] I think the issue is, like, in today's world with me. misinformation just like endemic yeah you've got to be careful about what comes out of your mouth when it comes to that because news doesn't exist in just news anymore yeah you're totally right so people like listen to joe rogan say oh if he says that yeah then maybe um and it's you're right there's a sort of like don't listen to me it's like well don't say that just stay out of it exactly and just acknowledge you are a person that people listen to you are and if you have a platform with a platform comes responsibility but like it has all very tricky.

[56] So, like, Oprah famously got sued by the meat industry for talking about mad cow disease.

[57] This is how her and Dr. Phil met.

[58] And part of me was like, yeah, she has a huge platform.

[59] And also she can have a fucking opinion about shit.

[60] And she's not, like, legally responsible if you decide to stop eating meat because of her opinion.

[61] How about this?

[62] What if I say when I was single, I didn't wear condoms as much as I should have?

[63] Like, is that become a thing that people, I'm not advising anyone not to.

[64] You didn't do as much as you should have.

[65] Oh, there we go, should have.

[66] Should have, yeah.

[67] So you can certainly share the opinion and say this is my opinion.

[68] Uh -huh.

[69] But.

[70] And I recognize it was stupid.

[71] Yeah, the implication is you should have done something different.

[72] That's true.

[73] Again, all comes down to being responsible.

[74] Yeah, remember when we had the guy on, we had someone on who wrote a book called Hooked about the food industry.

[75] And it was crazy.

[76] He was like, the same people who are selling you, whatever, the processed food, have an investment in the pill that will.

[77] He was saying specifically, like they create this huge problem with overly sugary foods.

[78] They also offer you the antidote, which is sugar -free food.

[79] It's a good business plan.

[80] Like, if I were an investor, and you brought it to me. It's smart.

[81] There's no denying that.

[82] But supply and demand, right?

[83] Mm -hmm.

[84] By the way, I have a libertarian bent to me. I have an individual rights bent to me. And I used to think that until I learned that if it were a fair competition, yes.

[85] So if it was just this food tastes delicious and it's on you to not eat a bunch of it.

[86] But once I find out they're employing the world's best chemists to not just design a good taste, but a taste that dissipates really quickly so that you desire another bite quickly.

[87] Like you're outmatched in that situation.

[88] It's not a fair fight.

[89] It's like the algorithms on the internet.

[90] You can't compete with that, a human.

[91] You can't.

[92] If you have the awareness of what it's doing to you and the fact that it's learning.

[93] Yes.

[94] Which is scary.

[95] And advertising has been going on for 100 years.

[96] Full -fledged for 100 years.

[97] Yeah, exactly.

[98] But done really responsibly.

[99] The difference here is targeted ads.

[100] If ads have always worked for companies, you put on the TV, you can walk away, you can come back.

[101] Your involvement is switching on, switching off, or changing the channel.

[102] Whereas now with algorithms, it's there.

[103] It's just feeding your habits.

[104] And it's also reading through your emails and everything else.

[105] So it's getting to know you, like, it gets to know the decisions that you're going to make before you make them.

[106] And then it creates this echo chamber of no pushback, of no. context of nothing is just perpetuating and feeding the bias and the habits that you already have inside of you which is terrible yeah and if you if you were asked what you were going to do next and then you asked the algorithm what you were going to do next the algorithm would be right like three to one yeah so that's why it's on a fair fight because you can't remember everything you've done in the last 12 years but google knows what you've done for the last 12 years in a nanosecond and i think they get to wash at the moment until it changes at the moment they get to wash their hands of responsibility because it's like oh it's not human error it's a computer it's like who wrote the algorithms you guys did yeah probably all male and all white yeah yeah yeah yeah and here we are you and I a couple white males a bunch of Katie and I are here first of all I'm so excited you're here it's very flattering that you came down from Santa Barbara like you had to fucking work to get here that's all right I just sat in the back did a little bit of work read my notes and perfected the algorithm gave them more down I didn't expect to come into a building site, though.

[107] Yeah.

[108] Most people don't.

[109] That wasn't in the brief.

[110] Let that part out.

[111] I expected better.

[112] I'm really excited to meet you because in full disclosure, I'm the most ill -informed person on the royal family, at least in my circle.

[113] You're the only one I ever knew.

[114] It's simply because you were in those awesome nude photos in Vegas.

[115] And I literally said to myself, this guy's a party.

[116] Yeah.

[117] He has said that many times.

[118] Yeah.

[119] I'm sure.

[120] looking for other people to go sort of balance out your own behavior, right?

[121] Exactly.

[122] Yes.

[123] It's relatable.

[124] Truthfully, truthfully.

[125] And then on top of that, I was like, God, this motherfucker's got a good body.

[126] You were in tremendous shake.

[127] Now it's getting weird.

[128] We haven't touched weird yet.

[129] That was a few weeks before I went to Afghanistan.

[130] This is the other reason I knew you is because I was there in 07 doing a USO tour in the big hubbub was that you were going to be arriving.

[131] And I remember thinking, Oh, wow, they send princes into battle?

[132] I did not realize, that was not what I thought happened.

[133] So much for keeping it quiet.

[134] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[135] No, of course everyone knew, right?

[136] At least I wasn't running down the strip, stripping, albeit all naked, right?

[137] Yeah.

[138] At least.

[139] You could have been one of the dancing boys of Afghanistan.

[140] We should show the prince, the calendar.

[141] Where is it?

[142] What calendar?

[143] You think that's going to make him feel more comfortable?

[144] Well, yeah, because I don't want him to think it's just him.

[145] Oh, yeah.

[146] It's not you who I'm just obsessive.

[147] Yes.

[148] Monica makes this for me every year, and it's a calendar of all my favorite bodies of my friends.

[149] They're all men.

[150] And they're all gorgeous bodies.

[151] Why am I not September?

[152] Exactly.

[153] Well, next year.

[154] Next year, yeah, we'll find that.

[155] And why is it on September?

[156] Can I tell you who that is?

[157] This is obviously a clear favorite.

[158] Oh, right, because you're born in September.

[159] Exactly.

[160] Who is this guy, though?

[161] That's Kumail Nanjiani.

[162] You know Kumal, don't you?

[163] You might not know.

[164] Silicon Valley.

[165] Did you ever watch Silicon Valley?

[166] Yeah, he's...

[167] No, of course I haven't.

[168] Oh.

[169] Of course, I recognize his abs.

[170] Very notable abs.

[171] Oh, so that's an inside joke.

[172] So my friend Tom Hanson, who I worship, he's 72, and he's my idol and my de facto father.

[173] He's got the most enviable hair of anyone I know.

[174] Look, that's a 72 -year -old head of hair right there.

[175] What's weird is everybody else is showing the abs and then he's just showing the top of his hair.

[176] It's kind of things I covet.

[177] Who's this?

[178] Oh, so that was an AD on a show I was on Nick, who just was inordinately jacked.

[179] and I was obsessed with it.

[180] And he accommodated Monica.

[181] I did a lot of very uncomfortable texting to get this calendar made.

[182] Like, hey, is there any way you could send me?

[183] A picture of your torso.

[184] A picture of your naked body.

[185] You can pick the part, whatever you feel looks best.

[186] And now that you're in our sphere.

[187] You're the one who else was the question.

[188] Well, it was a surprise gift.

[189] I don't ask for this.

[190] This is just a benevolent gesture by Monica.

[191] And now that you're in our sphere, you're fucked because she is going to ask you for something.

[192] That's right.

[193] No, wait.

[194] You can have the top of my hands.

[195] It's bold and it's ginger, but you can have the top of the head.

[196] Okay, so I want to know, are you nervous to do this interview?

[197] Well, I didn't know as an interview, so...

[198] It's not, it's a chat.

[199] Yeah.

[200] Was I nervous?

[201] No, not so much nervous, but I guess on this particular subject around mental health.

[202] Yeah.

[203] For me, it's always, unfortunately, today's world is quite a sensitive subject, not just for the people who are sharing, but ultimately the subject matter itself has to be handled with care.

[204] There can be humor, there can be everything else, but when it ends up getting weaponized by certain people.

[205] Headlines, yeah.

[206] Yeah, you can never predict it, though in this instance, you probably can.

[207] That doesn't worry me anymore.

[208] I used to be fearful of it.

[209] Yeah.

[210] But now it's almost like the same groups of people that come at it so negatively or try and turn it against your weaponize it and therefore affects so many other millions of people from doing so.

[211] Yeah.

[212] Actually encourages me to speak out more.

[213] Yeah, exactly.

[214] I guess that's probably the same with you guys and the same people the side in the same chair, which is like, look, I'm going to be vulnerable.

[215] If I get attacked for it, let's see who's actually attacking me. Yes.

[216] What's their story?

[217] What's their agenda?

[218] Right?

[219] Who do they work for?

[220] It actually says more about them than it does.

[221] But that's how I've always felt when it comes to the projection.

[222] I mean, hatred is a form of projection, right?

[223] Yeah.

[224] We're not born to hate people.

[225] Yeah.

[226] So it manifests itself over a period of time.

[227] And of course, it can come from unresolved pain or being hurt continually as a young kid or through adult life.

[228] But ultimately, there's a source to it.

[229] There's a reason why you want to hate somebody else.

[230] Yeah.

[231] And when it comes to trolling on social media, the best way that I look at it is like, okay, take a moment, be aware of what this is doing to me and how it's making me feel.

[232] Yeah.

[233] But then look at them and go, how's your day going?

[234] Yeah.

[235] And actually have some compassion for them, which is really hard when you're on the receiving end of this, like, just vile, toxic abuse.

[236] But the reality is, as you say, flip it.

[237] Yeah.

[238] Flip it and say, what happened to you?

[239] Yeah.

[240] What made you want to come me like that when clearly we've never met you don't know me like what's your goal what are you actually doing i know it might make you feel better in the moment but long term it's not going to help okay so where i come from in working class michigan i think my fear of sharing about like being molested or violent stepdads or all the stuff i went through my fear was like those people be like oh my god you need so much attention like that i'm mining it for sympathy or attention which I'm doing neither, but that was maybe the hurdle for me to get over is that that voice of my peers at home, what would they say that I'm just attention seeking?

[241] What are yours?

[242] Like, what is the thing you go to from your childhood or whatnot where you can hear people saying?

[243] Like, stop being a baby, stop?

[244] No, I think more like, oh, you need help.

[245] As a case of not so much weakness, but, oh, I don't know how to deal with this.

[246] You're unhinged or you're not particularly well.

[247] Go and seek help.

[248] And it's like, well, rule number one is when you actually want or feel as though someone needs help, telling them to their face, you need help, is probably the best way for them to go, no. No, I don't.

[249] No, I don't.

[250] Object, run away, delay, all these kind of things.

[251] Or go and drink or take drugs or whatever.

[252] You find a different way.

[253] Take your clothes off in Vegas.

[254] Maybe.

[255] Any single one of us, whoever we are, wherever we come from, they will always try and find some way to be able to mask the actual feeling and be able to try and make us feel different to how we are actually feeling perhaps having a feeling because so many people were just numb to it that was a huge part of the beginning of my life which was like I rejected it I said there's nothing wrong with me I'm fine yeah well there's a male component too don't you think like huge yeah I know for me where I grew up any emotion was weakness and weakness was cancer yeah true but look how much the world has changed now I think the worst the world gets or the harder it becomes and the more suffering that there is the more people feel as though they have something relatable within their community to their neighbors or perhaps online.

[256] Yeah, yeah.

[257] And that's creating a change of the conversation, certainly through this series that Oprah and I are doing, as far as I've viewed it for many, many years now, and we're very vocal about it on the series, which is speaking out, especially now in today's world, is a sign of strength rather than a sign of weakness.

[258] Yeah.

[259] So if you are making that conscious decision to say, you know what, it's not self -serving, but I want to share my story.

[260] I'm being asked to share my story to hopefully help someone or loads of other people.

[261] I'm probably going to get trolled.

[262] I'm probably going to get attacked by the same people that would do it anyway.

[263] If I'm willing to make that decision, surely that comes from a place of courage rather than weakness.

[264] Yeah, for sure, the easy thing to do is, yeah, is to stay quiet.

[265] You know, the fact that you guys are doing this series, the me you can't see, which you produce with Oprah and you guys conduct interviews, what I loved immediately is on the surface you two have, as polar opposite of childhood environments, that two people could have.

[266] I mean, literally, if you had to build a spectrum, Oprah would certainly be towards the tail of one end and you would certainly be towards the tail of the other.

[267] And yet what I love about it is trauma, loneliness, all these things, they transcend that whole spectrum.

[268] And if Oprah's at one end and I'm in the other based on my privilege and my upbringing, and Oprah's at the opposite end, then every single one of us is somewhere along there.

[269] And by the way, I truly believe that you can move along the spectrum as well, right?

[270] wherever you were born, you may start in one place, but that will change over time.

[271] Well, you guys are almost flipping maybe.

[272] Oprah's going to end the Queen of America.

[273] Whoopsie.

[274] Sharecropping farm.

[275] No, you'll meet in the middle somewhere.

[276] But I think that's exactly it.

[277] That is about meeting in the middle.

[278] One of the main reasons of the series is to be able to have these honest conversations with people around the world who have suffered and are continuing to suffer in some instances is about stripping away all of the, not so much the labeling, but our backgrounds and the privilege, because, again, within certain corners of the media, it's very much like, you're privileged.

[279] How could you possibly be suffering?

[280] And it's like, can I interject and just say that I have unique compassion for you?

[281] Because I feel like if I were you, I would feel not entitled to share my experience, that I would be judged as someone who was just not grateful or that had it made and was still complaining.

[282] Like, I think weirdly, it is easier for Oprah to come from where she came from and tell.

[283] you about her trauma than for you to say, you know what?

[284] It wasn't fucking great.

[285] Yeah, because people are like, what?

[286] You grew up in a palace.

[287] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[288] How bad can it be?

[289] You had like people like running around doing this, you had especially in today's world and believe me, look, all of us have seen suffering.

[290] And I've luckily, because it's been part of my own growth, have spent many, many years traveling around the world seeing other people suffer and being able to have that empathy for them, the ability to put myself in their shoes.

[291] That was the education that I had.

[292] So the weird thing is that, yeah, I was born into this privilege, but the privilege also gave me the most unbelievable front row seat.

[293] Front row seat and education, my education is not in school.

[294] My education is about meeting people across the Commonwealth, right?

[295] 52 countries, 2 .4 billion people.

[296] 60 % of that 2 .4 billion people under the age of 29.

[297] Like, everywhere I go, I ask questions.

[298] Everywhere I go, I try and listen.

[299] I don't want to come in and say, these are what I think my solutions are.

[300] Like, I already know, they're probably looking at me going, you're a prince, a palace where's your crown and where's your cape yeah yeah sorry kids yeah there is no crown when's the dance they're like when's the ball if you haven't got a crown bye and off they go but the reality is that you meet these kids and you go to these communities all over the world and it just puts it into context yeah and that's why i feel more comfortable now being able to talk about my own struggles because i do it to help other people yeah i don't see it as complaining and i don't think anyone should see talking about your own issues as complaining it's about sharing your story knowing that how relatable it is because you will, I guarantee you, by sharing the vulnerabilities and experiences that you've had growing up, there will be at least probably depending on what platform you're using, whether it's podcast or otherwise.

[301] As long as I keep it off Twitter, it's positive.

[302] But you're going to have a positive impact on someone's life.

[303] Yes.

[304] Someone feels seen.

[305] They don't feel alone.

[306] It all is wonderful.

[307] Now, I think you and I are also in a really unique situation as well.

[308] Like what you and I have had a really firsthand experience with is like, oh, the shit that's sustainable, the foundation for self -esteem, all those things, sadly, they don't really derive from all the status stuff that I bought into as a kid and that you were just inadvertently born into, which is like all these things, the kind of dream we've been sold, I just like saying out loud, like I had made the most amount of money I ever made, people recognized me at the airport, and I was on the verge of killing myself because I was such a bad addict.

[309] life was miserable.

[310] So, like, I had all the things that are supposed to make you happy and it just didn't fucking work.

[311] So you were chasing something.

[312] Yes, the thing I needed wasn't the things I thought I needed.

[313] Like, the things you need is, like, connection to community, being of service to other people, things that are actual self -esteem builders, not accomplishments or adoration.

[314] Those things, at least for me, didn't fill up or give me the esteem I needed.

[315] But being catapulted into fame was presumably a hell of a lot to deal with.

[316] And did you have anyone around you at the time guiding you or giving you advice?

[317] Oh, God, no, I had a bunch of my, me and my friend, a bunch of us.

[318] The bottom of the bag.

[319] All of us super excited to get into nightclubs and people knew us and hot girls liked me all of a sudden.

[320] Like the whole thing was really thrilling for about six months.

[321] But it's not sustainable.

[322] Yes.

[323] And then what really starts happening is like, I'm still looking in the mirror in the morning brushing my teeth going like, well, I'm not seeing the person they're seeing.

[324] These people who love me, I'm not that person.

[325] And now I just feel like a fraud.

[326] I feel like I don't deserve it.

[327] There's just a million feelings, none of them good.

[328] But do you remember or do you have awareness to what the reason for the drugs and the drinking was, apart from having a great time?

[329] And now knowing that you can afford it.

[330] Yeah, yeah.

[331] Touching on what we talked about at the beginning.

[332] Like, there's a reason for that.

[333] And for you, it was your upbringing and everything that happened to you, the trauma and the pain and the suffering.

[334] Yeah.

[335] All of a sudden you find yourselves doing a shitload of drugs and partying hard.

[336] Yeah.

[337] Look how many other people do that as well.

[338] They wouldn't necessarily have the awareness at the time.

[339] I certainly didn't have the awareness when I was going wild.

[340] Like, why am I actually doing this?

[341] In the moment, it's like, why not?

[342] It's fun.

[343] In my 20s, this is what you're supposed to do, isn't it?

[344] If asked, you would say, oh, it's fun.

[345] But now you read, I'm sure, Oprah's book, which is great.

[346] What happened to you?

[347] I haven't read it yet, but I know.

[348] Okay, you're going to love it.

[349] Listen to it on tape.

[350] That's what I did.

[351] I don't know why I told you that.

[352] Maybe enjoy reading.

[353] I assume they taught you how to read.

[354] There's so many layers to it.

[355] So, of course, I later came through sobriety, realized, like, oh, yeah, I was trying to regulate internal feelings with external stuff.

[356] So I had that awareness.

[357] But after reading her book, I realized, like, oh, no, when you grew up with six or seven aces, childhood traumas, there's like a questionnaire of 10 of them, I think three or more, your 70 % chance of being an addict or whatever.

[358] So now I realize, oh, aside from trying to regulate, I can't regulate, my body gets into a very agitated state quite easily because of all the stuff from child.

[359] And that's just my biochemistry now going forward.

[360] There's a physiological component to it that ends up happening.

[361] But now you know what's happening.

[362] You can recognize in your body and then you can regulate from there.

[363] Yeah.

[364] The awareness helps.

[365] The awareness helps massively to be able to listen to your body.

[366] Otherwise, you're just tearing around all the way that I described is basically having your head in the sand or with your fingers in your eyes going la, la, la, la, la, la, la. And you'd think you're cruising.

[367] Yeah.

[368] And then there's also cortisol that's playing a havoc as well.

[369] Yeah.

[370] And then the adrenaline part, which is just driving you and giving you this extra energy.

[371] And to some extent, I know I've been there, maybe been there as well, where you think so whatever this is inside of me is really helping.

[372] It's driving you.

[373] It's fuel.

[374] Yeah.

[375] That's where the sort of the burnout happens because it's like, this isn't normal, but it feels great because I can get shit done.

[376] Yeah, super power.

[377] I can work harder.

[378] And then eventually it suddenly hits you.

[379] It's like, that's not sustainable.

[380] Yes.

[381] There's no way.

[382] But it's fight or flight, right?

[383] Okay.

[384] Let's go back a step.

[385] Okay.

[386] Your parents.

[387] Generally, I provide therapy to the gas.

[388] I know.

[389] I feel like it's switched.

[390] All of a sudden, I just saw that.

[391] Like, oh, he's the therapist today.

[392] To me, it's always so fascinating to hear of someone's struggles and for them to be able to explain or articulate why.

[393] But then also tracing it back to, okay, back to the sort of what happened to you, not what's wrong with you.

[394] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[395] Yeah, so what happens my parents got divorced at three.

[396] My dad became pretty irregular and undependable.

[397] I didn't seem very often.

[398] My first Stepdad was a violent cocaine addict that beat my mother in front of me, and I desperately wanted to save her and couldn't, which then predicted my long career as a barfighter.

[399] Anytime I think someone needs to step in, that's my calling.

[400] Then another stepdad who was type A marathon running, engineer controlling, he and my brother fist fought.

[401] He knocked my brother out.

[402] I thought he was dead.

[403] My brother got sent to my dad's.

[404] My dad and my brother fought so bad.

[405] They broke the coffee table.

[406] My whole neighborhood was gathered at the end of my driveway.

[407] I walk in.

[408] Both my dad and my brother are bleeding profusely.

[409] My brother's telling me, pack your shit, we're leaving here.

[410] Like, this was just all the time.

[411] It sounds like the script of stepbrothers.

[412] Yes.

[413] The non -cometic version of stepbrothers.

[414] Go club over the head.

[415] That's, that's, and then molested, I'm molested along the way.

[416] And, you know, just throw that in there.

[417] Just a add, it's just a cherry on top.

[418] Yeah, a little icing on the cake.

[419] When we left my dad, my mom was a janitor on midnight.

[420] So my little sister was born.

[421] I was helping raise this kid at six years old.

[422] My mom was way stretched beyond what any human can handle.

[423] She has depression.

[424] You know, everything you can have, an addict in the home, mental health issue in the home, violence in the home, sexual abuse in the home.

[425] So, yeah, I think all those things added up to.

[426] I love Jack and diets and cocaine.

[427] That's a lot.

[428] I'm beautifully summarized.

[429] You don't might be saying.

[430] I feel like I really know you now.

[431] Okay, thank you.

[432] Like, what was the trigger for you to go, hang on a second?

[433] Well, it became obvious, A, I literally couldn't quit drinking.

[434] Like, I think a lot of people think like, oh, yeah, I could or I couldn't.

[435] But if you've tried several, several times and you literally get the point of me like, holy shit, I am incapable of this.

[436] I'm going to do this for the rest of my life.

[437] I'm going to disappear for four or five days at a time.

[438] I'm going to be in these dangerous situations.

[439] Drinking for breakfast as well.

[440] Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday.

[441] And then I'd level out Wednesday, Thursday, and then just start it all back up Friday.

[442] And then tons of drugs.

[443] every drug at all times.

[444] By yourself or with friends or both?

[445] It always started socially, and then it always took me to where I ultimately desired to be, which is completely alone doing drugs.

[446] Last man standing, well, everyone else is like, yes, yes, yes.

[447] And then he tricks himself into saying, like, I'm the one that can handle it.

[448] I have the Constitution to handle it.

[449] They don't.

[450] Not I have a problem and they don't.

[451] Right, right, right.

[452] But in that moment, were you doing it for fun or were you doing it to mask the pain?

[453] So what is now obvious is the reason I couldn't shut it down on other people could.

[454] Now I recognize the thought of returning to the other feelings, I'd rather be dead.

[455] Like now I recognize that.

[456] Like in the moment.

[457] No, you don't realize it.

[458] Like, like, we had a guest on who she and I kind of connected quickly.

[459] She didn't even articulate it, but she mentioned crack houses.

[460] And I'm like, oh yeah, I've been in some crack houses.

[461] And then after that interview, I was thinking, it is weird what danger you'd put yourself in, but then recognizing that all you've really done is prioritize your emotional safety over your physical safety, which then makes sense.

[462] Like, it's worth me being in a crack house, which is crazy dangerous, so that I feel emotionally the way I want to feel.

[463] And it makes sense then.

[464] Maybe also with it, presumably you were the group of people.

[465] Well, a group of strangers.

[466] Yes, the most desperate.

[467] Yeah.

[468] That must have made you feel.

[469] No. I was so judgmental of all them.

[470] I was like, oh, look at all these fucking addicts.

[471] All these crackheads are gross.

[472] I'm just here recreationally.

[473] I'm not like that.

[474] Of course.

[475] I'm dipping in.

[476] I'm out.

[477] Yeah.

[478] It's all in group out group.

[479] Yeah.

[480] I wasn't to the place where I could accept.

[481] I'm them too.

[482] But it proves that you can have everything you think you want.

[483] Yes.

[484] And actually need something very different.

[485] Yeah.

[486] And it's counter to the story we're born into.

[487] Yeah.

[488] Wait, I want to say something about privilege going back and turning the tables back on you.

[489] Now you're the patient.

[490] Buckle up.

[491] Yeah.

[492] Do I have to pay for this session or not?

[493] No, it's from.

[494] that's on us.

[495] Well, now it was reciprocal.

[496] I just had one.

[497] Exactly.

[498] Okay, cool.

[499] I'm going to say this because I don't think you can or people will maybe attack you for it, but it's really true.

[500] When you talk about going to the Commonwealth and you grew up like that and you had to empathize with all these people who are presumably in like much, quote, worse situations in you.

[501] And they were.

[502] They were walk around and be the person comforting.

[503] But in some ways, those people had more freedom than you did.

[504] And I think that is a hard thing to reconcile.

[505] Like, oh, I'm in a cage.

[506] Or maybe you didn't know that yet.

[507] But I'm supposed to be the smiley one and I'm supposed to be the one comforting.

[508] Yeah, it's the job, right?

[509] Grin and Barrett, get on with it.

[510] What was it in my early 20s?

[511] I was a case of like, I just, I don't want this job.

[512] I don't want to be here.

[513] I don't want to be doing this look what it did to my mom how am i ever going to settle down i have a wife and a family when i know that it's going to happen again because i know i've seen behind the curtain i've seen the business model i know how this operation runs and how it works yeah i don't want to be part of this and then once i started doing therapy suddenly it was like the bubble was burst yeah i plucked my head out of the sand gave a good shake off and i was like okay you're in this position of privilege stop complaining or stop thinking as though you want something different, make this different.

[514] Because you can't get out.

[515] Yeah.

[516] So how are you going to do this differently?

[517] How are you going to make your mum proud?

[518] How are you going to use this platform to really affect change and be able to give people that confidence to be able to change their own lives?

[519] It was interesting because now what I, looking back, and of course at the time, it was the lack of awareness, but there was just the glimmer of awareness.

[520] Now looking back at it, I realized that helping other people help me. Yeah.

[521] And when I created the Invictus Games, for instance, for wounded service, men and women from what now 20 different countries, when I started it was like, I'm just going to create this platform because I know that sport rehabilitates people, both physically and emotionally and mentally.

[522] But once I started doing it, once I started to see the progress and the impact, I suddenly was like, wow, healing other people heals me. And I think that's where the sort of compassion piece comes in for all of us, which is once you've suffered, you don't want anybody else to suffer.

[523] And it's an esteemable act.

[524] It's something you can actually be proud of yourself for.

[525] A human, that's what we're supposed to do.

[526] Right.

[527] Compassion.

[528] There's an element of selfishness there.

[529] I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[530] No. I think if you helping other people gets you the fix that you want or that you need, happy days.

[531] Yeah.

[532] Would that be a different world?

[533] If we're like, you know what?

[534] I wake up this morning.

[535] I'm feeling really shit.

[536] What am I going to do?

[537] I'm going to help my neighbor.

[538] Yeah.

[539] And I'm going to come back and then put my feet up and have a really good day.

[540] Yeah.

[541] It's part of AA.

[542] It's like built in.

[543] Yeah.

[544] It's like the cornerstone of AA is like service and acknowledging it's a very selfish endeavor.

[545] And that's okay.

[546] Okay.

[547] There's a lot of ways to be selfish, and some of them are quite productive.

[548] But I think some people think that you can only really have that element of compassion for friends or for people that you see on a day -to -day basis.

[549] But the reality is service is universal.

[550] Yeah, yeah.

[551] So wherever you go, you're going to find something that you can connect with somebody else with, and it's always quite surprising.

[552] You were born in a palace, you're a prince.

[553] Someone could have been of service to you.

[554] It doesn't have to be someone who has got a cup in their hand asking for change.

[555] Like everyone needs a hand.

[556] Everyone needs an ear.

[557] I feel way more connection to those free people that you talk about, emotionally free people and I guess systemic free people.

[558] I feel way more connection to people that I met and worked with in parts of Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, or whatever it is.

[559] Yeah.

[560] And I'm fortunate like that because the privilege does give you blinkers.

[561] Yeah.

[562] Mine would never particularly on straight.

[563] I have always felt different.

[564] Why do you think?

[565] Oh, God, there's, well, I got a whole.

[566] I might just open up another can of love.

[567] No, I was already laying out for you when I was trying to empathize with your life today in researching you.

[568] First of all, I need to know what was the moment for you that led to therapy?

[569] Like, what was your moment at the bar?

[570] It was a conversation that I had with my now wife.

[571] Okay.

[572] And she saw it.

[573] She saw it straight away.

[574] She could tell that I was hurting and that some of the stuff that was out.

[575] of my control was making me really angry.

[576] Uh -huh.

[577] And it would make my blood boil.

[578] Well, you're a redhead, so I know you've got a hell of a temper.

[579] You have that fire.

[580] No, it's not a temper.

[581] It's the fire.

[582] I've never screamed.

[583] I've never shouted.

[584] I've never, like for me, the best way of letting out any aggression is through boxing.

[585] Uh -huh.

[586] But for me, prior to meeting Megan, it was very much a case of certainly connected to the media, that anger and frustration of this is so unjust.

[587] Not, by the way, not just about me, but about all this stuff that I see.

[588] The level of powerlessness, you must feel.

[589] Helplessness.

[590] Yeah.

[591] That's my biggest sort of Achilles heel.

[592] The three major times I felt completely helpless.

[593] One, when I was a kid in the back of the car, my mom being chased by paparazzi.

[594] Two was in Afghanistan in an Apache helicopter.

[595] And then the third one was with my wife.

[596] And those are the moments in my life where, yeah, feeling helpless hurts.

[597] It really hurts.

[598] And that's when you think to yourself, shit.

[599] Like, I got the privilege.

[600] I've got the platform.

[601] I've got the influence.

[602] And even I can't fix this.

[603] Yeah.

[604] I can't change this.

[605] And when you start getting in your head about it, that's when it starts sort of taking a toll.

[606] Well, you probably get self -critical as well, I would imagine.

[607] Massively self -critical.

[608] Yeah, if it were me, it'd be like, what the fuck?

[609] I have all the weapons, and here I am, still can't alter the course of this at all.

[610] Yeah.

[611] I mean, the good thing is the course is being altered now.

[612] Yeah.

[613] And, like, everything is supply and demand.

[614] And in today's world, the way that hate has become so profitable, the system is set up so that whether you're for it or against it, you're still contributing to it.

[615] And I think it's really hard for people to understand, which is like, you see something hateful about someone or something, you then end up sharing it saying, oh, look what they've done now.

[616] Look what so -and -so said.

[617] But by sharing it, you're fueling the fire.

[618] So the best thing to do is to be able to be aware enough to go, I reject this, I'm going to push this out of my life, I'm not going to share it with somebody else.

[619] Why the hell would I share something that I hate with somebody else?

[620] I'm going to share the good stuff.

[621] Yeah.

[622] And then collectively we can flip the whole thing.

[623] and then suddenly compassion, love, and empathy becomes the driving force rather than hate.

[624] Yeah.

[625] Sorry, I got a little bit, a little bit deep there.

[626] Yeah, and I enjoyed it.

[627] I'm three quarters erect right now.

[628] Oh, God.

[629] But luckily my legs are crossed.

[630] This is part of his trauma.

[631] He can't go five minutes without making a sexual reference.

[632] So glad you're here to keep us safe.

[633] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[634] We've all been there.

[635] there.

[636] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[637] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[638] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated.

[639] Or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[640] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[641] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[642] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[643] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[644] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[645] What's up, guys, this is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[646] and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[647] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[648] And I don't mean just friends.

[649] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[650] The list goes on.

[651] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[652] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[653] Every, I don't know, I shouldn't say every.

[654] Every teenager I've ever met and myself included feels different.

[655] And you feel like everyone else has.

[656] is getting it and you're not and you're on the outside even if you're like seemingly accepted by the whole group i think it's very normal to feel different but then in your case it's so compounded you're in the tiniest in group of all time like there's the whole country and then there's you guys and you're standing in the other direction looking at you the whole world yeah the whole world i was liking it to truman show have you seen that movie yep it's between the truman show and being in a zoo yes that's funny you'd say that because a couple of the snaps i've had in public regrettably i've said that you're not at the fucking zoo and i'm not a bear i'm not the attraction yes aside from that you were kind of cast into a movie without being asked which is kind of a wild wild thought i don't know that anyone could actually comprehend yeah trueman show would have to be the closest think.

[657] I think the biggest issue for me was that being born into it, you inherit the risk.

[658] You inherit the risk that comes with it.

[659] You inherit every element of it without choice.

[660] And because of the way that the UK media are, they feel an ownership over you.

[661] Literally, like a full -on ownership.

[662] And then they give the impression to some of their, well, most of their readers, that that is the case.

[663] But I think it's a really dangerous place to be.

[664] If you don't have a choice, but then, of course, then people quite rightly will turn around and go, so what if you didn't have a choice?

[665] It was privilege.

[666] Yeah, no, I reject this, because this was an argument made to Kristen and I. We had this whole campaign for paparazzi and magazines here in the U .S. to not show kids anymore.

[667] It's called No Kids Policy, and most of the magazines adopted it.

[668] There's a couple of shitty places that still do that TMZ and fucking World Mail or whatever the shitty thing you have in London, daily mail.

[669] Yeah, page six of the New York Post.

[670] They took pictures of my son being picked up from school on his first day.

[671] Yeah, so they didn't.

[672] But the majority did.

[673] So when we first had our daughter Lincoln, the paparazzi lived across the street from our house endlessly, right?

[674] Since then, it's stopped and it's been great.

[675] But I reject, you chose this.

[676] Yes, Dax chose this and Kristen chose this, but my fucking children didn't choose shit.

[677] They're just born into this house.

[678] And I fucking reject that that goes with the territory for children.

[679] Yeah, well, first of all, the people that are taking photographs and making money off of your life and your misery, are probably the same people that really enjoy your movies.

[680] Hopefully.

[681] I'm a big fan of employee of the month, but I guess my point is the way that I look at it, especially now living here one hour outside L .A., like it's a feeding frenzy here.

[682] We spend the first three and a half months living at Tyler Perry's house.

[683] Okay.

[684] He let us stay.

[685] And the helicopters, the helicopters, the drones, the paparazzi cuts, cutting the fence, like it was madness.

[686] Yeah.

[687] And people out there, their response was, well, what do you expect if you live in L .A.?

[688] It's like, okay, well, first of all, we didn't mean to live in L .A. This is like a staging area before we try and find a house.

[689] Yeah.

[690] And secondly, how sad that if you live in L .A. and you're a well -known figure.

[691] You should not be able to.

[692] You just have to accept it.

[693] You have to live indoors.

[694] And the first lot of security we had said, I said, well, where's the safest place?

[695] I said, inside.

[696] And I said, sorry, so just because I'm a well -known person.

[697] You can't go outside anymore.

[698] You can't go outside anymore.

[699] That's what you wanted, Harry.

[700] You wanted to not go outside.

[701] You've always wanted that.

[702] But it's really, really sad.

[703] And of course, their argument is from the paparazzi and everybody else is like, oh, if you're in the public space, then it's absolutely fine for us to do it.

[704] So what is our human right as an individual and as a family?

[705] You're saying that the moment we step foot out of our house, that it's open season and free game.

[706] What, because of public interest?

[707] There's no public interest in you taking your kids for a walk down the beach.

[708] Right.

[709] Nothing.

[710] Yes.

[711] There's not news.

[712] No, there's not news.

[713] Yeah, yeah.

[714] This is my issue with it.

[715] It's like news should stay as news.

[716] What has happened in today's world is that news has been hijacked and used to commercially benefit a small group of people.

[717] So it's this sort of rabid feeding frenzy.

[718] And going back to the kids point, it's absolutely true.

[719] Like, these kids don't get a choice.

[720] They don't get a say in it.

[721] And if it becomes any worse, then what you're basically accepting is, okay, fine.

[722] So anyone with a talent.

[723] Yeah.

[724] Let's criminalize.

[725] Let's punish everyone.

[726] Let's punish people who've got a talent and have driven, and have literally worked their asses off to get to a point where, yes, they're making money and yes, their fans are contributing to that.

[727] Yeah, yeah.

[728] But they're bringing entertainment and value to society, whether it's through movies, whether it's through music, or whatever.

[729] Yeah.

[730] So if you continue to chase them and their kids, you're probably going to not just stop them from wanting to go to work.

[731] You're certainly going to put their kids off ever wanting to...

[732] So it's kind of is self -defeating.

[733] It's a weird one.

[734] So having moved, it got better there?

[735] Yeah, way better.

[736] Oh, good, good.

[737] But just what, two days ago, Orlando Bloom sent me a message because he's down the road and we sort of keep in contact because of the paparazzi.

[738] Yeah.

[739] He sent me a photograph, which is security got, of this long -head guy with a beanie on with his earpods in, with his massive camera lying in the back of his 4 -4 truck, backed out windows, a woman driving, who she likes the sort of the peace sign where she's sitting there is a distraction.

[740] And he's laid down in the back of this truck, taking forward.

[741] photographs of them out with their kid and whoever else is in that area.

[742] How is that normal?

[743] How is that acceptable?

[744] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[745] Well, when we took this on, I didn't try for a second to say legally this shouldn't be allowed.

[746] Because I know our First Amendment is such that it is going to protect the press as in some ways it should.

[747] It's the fourth estate.

[748] That wasn't my argument.

[749] My argument was, you know what else isn't illegal, shitting on your dining room table?

[750] It's not illegal.

[751] You could totally do it.

[752] You wouldn't do it because you're not a monster.

[753] Is it legal to run into the cinema and shout fire?

[754] Yes, that's true.

[755] But there's other reasons you wouldn't do something other than the law.

[756] You know what I'm saying?

[757] I would implore people to not evaluate.

[758] Well, anything that's legal I should be doing.

[759] So shitting on my kitchen table I should do because there's no law against it.

[760] That's not how one's brain should work.

[761] Well, that is, again, I don't want to start sort of going down the First Amendment route because that's a huge subject and one of which I don't understand because I've only been in for short period time.

[762] But you can find a loophole in anything.

[763] and you can capitalize or exploit what's not said rather than uphold what is said.

[764] Oh, sure, sure, sure.

[765] We can do that with anything we want.

[766] And if it's a commercial incentive, then great.

[767] Or if there's an ideology or you want to spread hate, laws were created to protect people.

[768] Right?

[769] Yeah.

[770] That's how I see it.

[771] Yeah.

[772] Well, increasingly companies as well, the citizens, United.

[773] But, you know, to put this one to bed for me, you guys can be caring talking about it, but I believe we live in an age now where you've got certain elements, of the media redefining to us what privacy means.

[774] There's a massive conflict of interest.

[775] And then you've got social media platforms trying to redefine what free speech means.

[776] Why?

[777] I wonder why you're doing that.

[778] And again, so this has been happening for 15 years now and we're living in this world where we've almost like, well, the laws have been completely flipped by the very people that need them flip so that they can make more money and they can capitalize off our pain, grief and this sort of general self -destructive mode that's happening at the moment.

[779] So there's conflict of interest is like the major piece here and yeah yeah you know as you say like you want to sit on the kitchen table like just because there's not a lot of yeah good oh good for you you're within the bounds of the law congratulations like powered back to the people like you go to sleep at night and you're like why didn't break the law you feel good but dad it does come back to supply and demand yeah right totally if we collectively became better at not clicking on and not spreading or sharing the things that we know are putting other people through hell yeah yeah then there's no market for it I totally The more depressed and the harder life becomes, we end up surrendering to the information parallel with our own feelings.

[780] Yeah.

[781] That's the information that we end up sort of being drawn into.

[782] Yeah.

[783] And the last stop is the pound and the dollar.

[784] I mean, it's literally that simple.

[785] To your point.

[786] If no one can profit on any of this stuff, it vanishes.

[787] Okay.

[788] That was fun.

[789] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[790] I got so much I want to say about the First Amendment.

[791] I still don't understand it, but it is bonkers.

[792] It is bonkers.

[793] So, having been born in the Truman Show, I'm curious.

[794] Did you watch television and movies?

[795] Did I make it to the edge?

[796] Did I find the far escape?

[797] Did you sail your little boat to the edge?

[798] Well, you did.

[799] Did you watch TV and movies as a kid with a kind of peculiar interest in non -royal life?

[800] Because how else would you observe it?

[801] I was thinking like you've probably never went to the grocery store with your mom or stood in line with her as she renewed her license or all these weird little mundane things.

[802] Did you like have an interest in those weird, things?

[803] No, I definitely went shopping with her.

[804] Oh, you did?

[805] A few times, yeah.

[806] Oh, okay.

[807] Only a handful of times because every time we came out, we got pounced on.

[808] I mean, there was very rarely a day that went by without at least one paparazzi jumping out from behind a car or something.

[809] Right.

[810] But also at the same time the beauty of it is like the first time that Megan and I met up for her to come and stay with me, we met up in a supermarket in London pretending that we didn't know each other.

[811] So we texted each other from the other side of the cloak and dagger.

[812] There were people looking at me give me all these weird looks and coming up and saying hi whatever and i was there texting it's like is this the right one she goes no you want parchment paper i'm like okay where's the parchment um so it was nice you're a baseball cap on like looking down the floor yeah yeah i don't know how many times you've done that when you're walking along the street trying to stay in cornetto it's like whoa signpost oh someone's dog oh hi it's amazing what you see how much chewing gum you see and how many people's a mess you see it's a mess so living here now i can actually like lift my head and actually I feel different my shoulders have dropped so's hers and you can walk around feeling a little bit more free I get to take Archie on the back of my bicycle now I've said that they're probably going to be but it's like I would never I would never have the chance to do that a thousand percent but did you watch movies and TV with a peculiar interest or you don't even recall no I just watch royal movies just to really make sure that my echo chamber was was absolutely solid.

[813] Impenetrable.

[814] Impenetrable.

[815] This is my life.

[816] This is what I'm going to learn about.

[817] This is everything.

[818] This is all I ever want to be.

[819] No, of course you watched it.

[820] But did you watch it with like the reverse curious?

[821] So here's what I'm no. Here's what I'm saying.

[822] Disney.

[823] Okay.

[824] Here's what I was thinking to my, I was talking to my wife this morning.

[825] I was like, what kind of curiosities do you have?

[826] When we got talking, I was like, oh my God, you know what's really bizarre about his life is that you learn all these fairy tales when you're growing up.

[827] Like, oh, and the prince gets the princess and all that.

[828] I think it be so bizarre for, you'd be told this story and that the ultimate prize would be to become royalty and you'd be sitting there just feeling like a normal person like well this doesn't feel all that euphoric like I feel like that would be a real cognitive dissonance moment like I do think that kind of old way of thinking of the prince the princess like all these little girls reading these wonderful fairy tales going well I want to be as a princess and I'm thinking it's not so rad yeah I forgot I'm not going to get it right so I'm not going to say it but my wife had the most amazing sort of explanation to that, which is almost like something like, I'm not going to get it right, but it's you don't need to be a princess.

[829] You can create the life that will be better than any princess.

[830] It's something.

[831] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[832] And that's coming from her own lived experience.

[833] Right.

[834] She did it.

[835] We got together and she's like, wow, this is very different to what my friends at the beginning said, like, what?

[836] Yeah.

[837] Yeah.

[838] So.

[839] I know, I think a lot of people feel like, well everyone knows what they're getting into when they marry a prince but how even i i'm like what could she have expected that she was going to go drive around town and everything would be normal like i had that thought of like she's super intelligent she couldn't have thought now mind you i learned she didn't leave the house for five months that's like solitary confinement so i recognize it's even way worse than you can imagine but i did think like oh you couldn't have thought oh i'm going to just travel freely no no of course not and she never thought that i think she said before, she expected it to be fair.

[840] Yeah, which I think anybody does.

[841] It's like, yeah, okay, I'm a public role model, or I'm a public figure, or I'm a celebrity, whatever it is, you expect a certain element of interest in your life.

[842] Sure.

[843] But at the same time, you still expect to be able to have a private life.

[844] Yeah.

[845] As opposed to this idea of every time you step foot outside, you get chased.

[846] Yeah.

[847] And even when you stay inside, because of the way that social media is now, you're everywhere while you're nowhere.

[848] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[849] So actually, and also, by the way, if it's not true, then that is unfair.

[850] Yeah, a thousand percent.

[851] Especially when you can't defend yourself.

[852] So, yes, I think when you marry into it, especially when it's one of Princess Diana's sons, there is a certain amount of, okay, what am I actually learning myself in for?

[853] But very few people actually know, apart from the Brits, how toxic that element of the UK presses.

[854] Well, and then the one thing that was undeniable, because of course I watched a good deal of the Oprah thing.

[855] My favorite part is you playing with chickens while they're talking, You know, they've all got feathers now.

[856] Oh, they do?

[857] Oh, good.

[858] They're all rehabilitated from a factory farm.

[859] What do you call in America?

[860] Yeah.

[861] Factory farm or what's the other word?

[862] I can't remember.

[863] Anyway, they all came butt naked with a couple of feathers out their chin and maybe one out their stomach.

[864] And now, after what, three or four weeks, well, they started laying eggs immediately, which made us quite proud as parents.

[865] Yeah.

[866] I'm like, oh, my God, we were told you went to late ages and you've already laid eggs.

[867] They feel so safe.

[868] Yeah, and now they're running around fully feathered.

[869] Yeah, anyway, back to the chickens.

[870] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[871] I was just like, oh, God, that would be me in this interview.

[872] My wife would be talking to Oprah and be like, oh, there's a lot of talking.

[873] I think I'm going to play with these chickens.

[874] The chickens need a test.

[875] Where the chickens?

[876] Where the chickens?

[877] Where the chickens.

[878] But you said the glasses were never on exactly right.

[879] The blinders, you guys called them.

[880] I called them blinkers.

[881] I think you guys call them blinders.

[882] Yeah, yeah.

[883] Got confusing when you said blinkers.

[884] I was thought you were a moped.

[885] That's your confusing face.

[886] That's what just derailed me. I was like, wait, he had fucking blinkers installed?

[887] Blinders, blinders, blinders, blinders.

[888] They weren't exactly installed correctly on you.

[889] And why do you think that's because of your mom?

[890] Yeah, definitely.

[891] The massive, immense impact that she had on us in the short time that she was around was huge.

[892] Because all she wanted to do was make sure that we had as normal life as possible.

[893] But it was interesting because going back to the whole sort of traveling around the Commonwealth, I thought I knew, right?

[894] Haven't being able to travel that much and meet.

[895] so many and such a diverse group of people, I thought I understood life.

[896] Yeah.

[897] Especially, bearing my, most of the countries I was going to were, and most of the communities I was going to were people of color.

[898] Yeah.

[899] But then I was really shocked.

[900] Once I started doing therapy and that bubble was burst and I started doing my own work, really like a lot of work, and started to uncover and understand more about unconscious bias.

[901] And I was like, wow, I thought, since I screwed up when I was younger and then did work.

[902] I thought I then knew, but I didn't.

[903] And I still don't fully know.

[904] No. It's a constant, like constant working progress.

[905] And every single one of us has it.

[906] Oh, a thousand percent.

[907] I've been saying that a lot on here is like there needs to be another word that doesn't relegate you to a member of the clan to be able to say, I'm unraveling it.

[908] There's shit I just, I literally couldn't see, was unaware of, didn't recognize.

[909] And that's not over.

[910] I know there's there's going to be other revelations for me where I'm like, oh yeah, and that.

[911] And you're right.

[912] And a lot of people do view it.

[913] It's like, you're either racist or you're not.

[914] Yeah, binary.

[915] And it's like the middle ground, not even the middle ground, the rest of it is where we all are.

[916] And it's not just black and white, right?

[917] Everyone has biases of all sorts.

[918] But I think it's a really important point, especially now after everything's happened in the last year and a half.

[919] Like the world is changing.

[920] The younger generation are driving it.

[921] And you've got a like a multiracial, cultural sort of movement happening, which has never happened before.

[922] But unconscious bias is the way that I understand it.

[923] is, again, it's not something that's wrong with you, right?

[924] And you don't have to be defensive about it.

[925] Yeah.

[926] That's the thing.

[927] No one's blaming you.

[928] But the moment that you acknowledge that you do have unconscious bias, what are you going to do about it?

[929] Exactly.

[930] Because if you choose to do nothing.

[931] Now we got a problem.

[932] Then you're continuing to fuel the problem, which means that you're then heading towards racism.

[933] Yes.

[934] Whereas unconscious bias is actually something that is inherent, unfortunately, in every single one of us, but that it is possible to educate yourself to be more aware of the problems and therefore be part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

[935] Totally.

[936] As we say, it's the water you grow up in.

[937] You can't see the water.

[938] You're swimming in.

[939] The water you're swimming.

[940] Just keep swimming.

[941] Okay.

[942] When I imagine your life, I spend a lot of time.

[943] I'm pretending that's you today.

[944] How often does that happen?

[945] It's a lot of projection.

[946] Now that I spend time with you, please remove me from your head.

[947] No, no, no. From your torso wanting photographs.

[948] It's only got worse, Sarah.

[949] Now he really wants it.

[950] Here's what I, here's what if I were you, I feel like I would have loved the military.

[951] Did you love going into the military?

[952] Well, you'd have been kicked out pretty quick.

[953] Oh, yeah.

[954] I have the biggest authority complex.

[955] Yeah, I would not be a good candidate for the military, but I imagine having grown up in the fish bowl that you were in and the in -out group being like just 10 of us in the rest of the world.

[956] Now you enter this brotherhood, this fraternity, and now you're in an in -group that's huge.

[957] Now you're living in a fucking, I don't, there's no royal treatment in the military, right?

[958] You're in the same shitty barracks and you're fucking doing all the stuff you have to do.

[959] I have to imagine you, did you love that?

[960] I loved it.

[961] I love wearing the same uniform as everybody else.

[962] I love being treated the same.

[963] I love the expectation of if you want to get that job or you want that promotion or you want to finish this race, it's all on you.

[964] Yeah, it's a meritocracy.

[965] There's no special treatment.

[966] You're not going to get any help.

[967] If anything, you're probably going to get treated the opposite because everyone thinks that you've had an easy life and everyone's always helped you get to where you are.

[968] Yes.

[969] And then suddenly like, well, school, I hated exams, and I promised myself I'd never do exams again.

[970] Then I joined the army, of which is full of exams.

[971] And I still promised myself, I'm never going to do this.

[972] And then I ended up flying Apache helicopters, of which is full of exams.

[973] I'm just like, what am I doing to my...

[974] Wait, well, hold on, you are a pilot?

[975] I was.

[976] Get the fuck out.

[977] You flew an Apache.

[978] Now I definitely need your torso shot.

[979] Way more than I needed it before.

[980] What we should do is we should go dune buggy together.

[981] Yes.

[982] You take me for a helicopter, right.

[983] I'll take you in the dune car.

[984] and oh my god about a 30 millimeter cannon on the top okay perfect perfect yeah we can have great fun it's a chrome molly tubing 4130 you could definitely support the weight but you have an RAF flag on the side of it which is shocking that's gonna be an issue for you I'm gonna paint over it it's really from Quadrophenia to be honest it's a reference to the who more than the RAF but okay well the army in the UK call the RF crabs oh they do RIF crabs something about tied I'm not sure well two things I thought wow you must have really loved that experience and what a great way to teleport into a different life that you had been kind of denied a normal life yes right as normal I was which was probably so fucking exotic to you I'm not entirely sure whether exotic would be the word bearing in mind some of the accommodation I had to live in but exotic in the sense that it was so a rare it was rare in I think it was that I certainly made me yeah without question this is just goes back to the trauma piece What I didn't realize was during those years, I was still functioning and being driven by adrenaline.

[985] Yeah.

[986] So actually, I was one of the best candidates for that role at that time.

[987] For sure, because you're good at living in chaos.

[988] Good at living in chaos.

[989] I could manage four radios at one time.

[990] If there was anything painful, whether it was my body or whatever, I would just push through it.

[991] And so, yeah, that expectation is that, oh, he's going to be tailing behind everybody else because he's a prince.

[992] Yeah.

[993] And the moment that I was towards the front, and by the way, the rule was, don't be at the back, don't be in the front, be in the middle.

[994] Because you don't want to draw attention.

[995] You do not want to be the first across the line because then the next week, if you're hungover, tired, you're just pissed off.

[996] And you're not at the front.

[997] You're underperforming.

[998] And the directing staff are like, you're underperforming.

[999] It's like, last week was a good week.

[1000] Don't pick on me. I had had electrolytes for breakfast.

[1001] Or worse, they turn around and say, right, because last week you're at the front, this week, you've got to carry his sturgent.

[1002] I'm like, what, 30 extra pounds?

[1003] Ew.

[1004] It was.

[1005] It was the most normalizing experience or job that I could have ever hoped for and then going to Afghanistan twice.

[1006] Yeah.

[1007] And I'm super lucky in that I got to go twice, 07 and 09, for a week so I could leave.

[1008] Right.

[1009] But yet it is a very, very unique thing to observe.

[1010] And I'm so grateful I got to see that in real life because it is one of the most unique experiences a human can go through.

[1011] You see people from all walks of life coming together wearing the same uniform for the same goal.

[1012] The same mission.

[1013] And you want to talk about a petri dish of trauma.

[1014] In AA, when one of us dies, we have a different relationship with it than other people on the outside.

[1015] Okay.

[1016] Like some of our famous members have died.

[1017] And for us, it sounds callous.

[1018] We're like, yeah, that's what happens.

[1019] Like, that's the expectation.

[1020] If you take it too far.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] And if you don't do this thing, yes, that's the outcome.

[1023] This isn't a surprise.

[1024] It's observed all the time.

[1025] That's one of the main key lessons within AA, presumably, which is, guys, if you're not here and you're not taking this seriously the end goal not the end goal for some people maybe it is the end results the consequence is death don't be surprised by that and so likewise when I was over there some guys got killed while I was there at a base some came back wounded we went into the hospital to cheer them up and I watched I observed the people and how they were dealing with it and what I immediately recognized was they've dealt with this a lot and similar to when things get violent for me I'm calm I've been there I've been there I've been there dozens of times from my childhood.

[1026] And so what you're recognizing is like, oh, everyone's dealing with trauma there.

[1027] Everyone has a method of dealing with trauma.

[1028] And I couldn't not see it because again, I was already sober and stuff.

[1029] So I was just pretty fascinated with the culture and what people become used to.

[1030] Like, first of all, everyone has a story, right?

[1031] And but when you are on the mission, when you're out on operations, there is a certain mentality of, okay, I'm here for five months or six months or seven months or in a lot of the US troops maybe 12 months or 14 months which still is mind -boggling to come back and meet your kid that might be eight or nine months old has never seen you before but I think there's a mindset that while I'm here doing this job I'm not going to think about the fact that one of my friends just got blown up and now kind of Kazavak back to the UK it's not an option you can't but then what happens at the end yes right because then you go back into society you go back to normal life you find yourself walking down the aisle in a supermarket by yourself with an empty shopping basket going um why was i here yeah what am i getting i wouldn't say you become addicted to the noise but there was a study that was done in the UK with some of the special forces guys where they were strapped up with the heart monitors and they were showing more stress walking back home with their kids running around and stepping on toys and stuff than they were kicking the door down and going in and doing the dirty on the bad guys and you can think about like when you've got the uniform on when you're with your mates when you're with the guys you know what the task at hand is it might not be nice it might not be pleasant but it's something you've got to do yes right and you have the illusion of control you have some power over your outcome but with the kids it's like oh yeah I'm vulnerable here vulnerable is completely out of my control I haven't been trained to do this yes exactly and when I'm wearing my uniform I've got this cloak that I put on an identity which basically gives me this mental strength to be able to adapt and overcome anything and be the very best that I am in that moment because it is life or death.

[1032] Yeah.

[1033] But the stress is there.

[1034] It's just going to get displaced.

[1035] Like it is building in your body.

[1036] And then when you're at home and your kids are stepping on toys, that's when you see it.

[1037] I was just going to say, and I do not want it to sound like I'm comparing myself to a soldier because I am not.

[1038] I didn't go through anything.

[1039] But I had to stand on the flight line and salute.

[1040] while they played the bagpipes and they brought back to guys that were dead and then go into like I said the surgery room and entertain these guys and during that whole process I was just invigorated like it was a very surreal unique experience and then when I got back I was telling my mother the story on the phone like 12 days after and I'm back in L .A. And as I'm trying to tell her about the bagpipes, I start crying.

[1041] And I was like oh I didn't think that affected me. Of course it does.

[1042] I watched two dead people come back And that's so sad and they were young And I just at the time I didn't acknowledge it Yeah, but also you didn't know them right Right So you're comparing your own experience To his or her mates Uh huh yeah They're comrades Yeah Like this is not my moment Right exactly They've died They're a team there together I'm an observer But the reality is What I've learned over the years Is people feel different stages And different effects From trauma throughout their lives To the point of where You can actually be driving down the highway, and notice I didn't say in motorway, I really am becoming American, drive down the highway and you see a road traffic accident on the other side, like that stuff can affect you, right?

[1043] Stuff you see on social media can affect you.

[1044] Stuff within your own family, within your own household can affect you.

[1045] We just brush this stuff off every single day.

[1046] And someone said to me very recently, from the moment that you're born into today's world, life is trauma.

[1047] Sure.

[1048] So the sooner that we actually acknowledge that, but it's that cape.

[1049] It's knowing when to take that cape off and being able to not so much vent but being able to release whatever it is that you've seen or experienced or just let yourself experience it exactly but as soon as possible as soon as you can do it the better because otherwise it manifests itself and as we always know the body holds the score so you may think that mentally I'm fine but your body's holding on to that and sooner or later the bill comes due and if you're not aware of it then you'll keep suppressing it and it will come out of you as forms of projection against the people that you love.

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] So far better to process it and continue to put in the work and continue to be aware of what your body is telling your head and your head's setting your body to be able to find that equilibrium.

[1052] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1053] For me, our mental health is as important, in fact, way more important than our physical health.

[1054] Yeah, oh yeah.

[1055] So if we're looking after our body and our body gets injured, what do we do when our mind gets injured.

[1056] And if you've seen your mate get blown up in Afghanistan or something, that's going to trigger you.

[1057] But then the last thing I'd say on this is, like, the Ministry of Defense back in the UK get a really hard time for the number, in fact, it was remarkably small in comparison to what the media said it was, but the guys that were coming back from operations that were suffering from mental health illnesses.

[1058] PTSD.

[1059] Yeah, PTSD.

[1060] I, I call it.

[1061] Because for me, the disorder is even smaller number to the overall PTSD group of people, because most of them suffer most of us suffer from post -traumatic stress injury, right?

[1062] It's an injury.

[1063] It's something that you could heal from.

[1064] You can heal from it.

[1065] Yeah, the language is important, yeah.

[1066] Otherwise, you're just saying someone, okay, I've been diagnosing you with PTSD.

[1067] You've got a disorder for the rest of your life.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] There's nothing you can do about it.

[1070] At best you'll manage it.

[1071] You won't heal it.

[1072] Exactly.

[1073] Whereas you've got post -traumatic stress injuries.

[1074] Like, well, that makes sense because I just saw my make get blown up.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] But the other piece to this is, what we need to remember is the lot of the recruiting that we do in the UK comes from certain cities and certain homes where there's childhood trauma.

[1077] So what we collectively have already got inside of us, the trigger of seeing something happen in Iraq, Afghanistan can be the trigger.

[1078] So everyone goes, oh, it's because they were on operations and because they saw their makeup blown up.

[1079] It's like, no. It's a chicken or egg.

[1080] That was the lid coming off of all the other unresolved grief, trauma and pain that they've been suffering from for so many years.

[1081] Which made them good at that job, too.

[1082] Precisely.

[1083] Yeah.

[1084] Yeah, so I think some of the trick, of course, is like, I want all the shit I got out of that trauma.

[1085] I want the spidey senses.

[1086] I want to be calm under fire.

[1087] I want when all hell's breaking loose.

[1088] I want to be the level -headed person.

[1089] So I want to keep the, like, upside of it.

[1090] And then I want to minimize the downside.

[1091] So that's what I've been working on for years, for the last five years, which is like, and it started in therapy of like, I don't want to lose this thing because I think I feel so connected to my mom.

[1092] A little did I know it's adrenaline.

[1093] Right.

[1094] But then once I was like, okay, the fear of losing that, whatever this space, you thing was inside of me that was helping me communicate with people, giving me this extra energy, despite the fact that after 45 minutes of meeting people, I'd get back in the car and feels I've just been in a boxing ring during 12 rounds.

[1095] I'm like, oh, I'm exhausted.

[1096] Once you find that balance of being able to switch it on and switch it off and being able to channel all of that energy into the moment or the task at hand, then you're talking about more of like a sort of like a consciousness, awareness, strength of mind, mental fitness piece.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] And having choice.

[1099] That's the ultimate goal.

[1100] And prevention, right?

[1101] Staying ahead of what you know is going to come.

[1102] For me, it's expectation.

[1103] So taking a minute to go, okay, we're about to go to the airport.

[1104] When I get to the airport, the TSA guy's going to make me do something that makes no sense.

[1105] It'll be absolutely illogical.

[1106] And I'm going to have no control over that.

[1107] And that's going to happen.

[1108] And then I'm going to get to the gate.

[1109] I'm going to see a lot of people sneaking pictures of my children.

[1110] That's coming.

[1111] Like when I can enter those situations, having already thought through like, here's all the things coming.

[1112] I'm so much better in those situations.

[1113] You have to, though, because we've all got the monkey brain, right?

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] And the same was you get caught in rush hour.

[1116] Every single day, you do the same thing, you jump in the car.

[1117] You know you're going to get caught in traffic, but then you still lose your mind like, ah, I'm going to be late.

[1118] Freddie what?

[1119] Why not just write a list saying, these things are going to happen?

[1120] And I'm just going to accept it and deal with it because it's out of my control.

[1121] There's nothing that I can do about it.

[1122] Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for failure every single day.

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] Wait, can we talk about parenting real quick?

[1125] because you were parented in such a specific way not just by your dad but by the whole family and it's so specific that I wonder and like you said like you were told oh you're just something's wrong with you, you're crazy I wonder are you trying to parent in the opposite direction?

[1126] Yeah what you'll see in the me you can't see that comes out on the 21st of May is very much a case of I verbalize it which is isn't life about breaking the cycle.

[1127] Yeah Right.

[1128] There's no blame.

[1129] I don't think we should be pointing the finger or blaming anybody.

[1130] But certainly when it comes to parenting, if I've experienced some form of pain or suffering because of the pain or suffering that perhaps my father or my parents had suffered, I'm going to make sure that I break that cycle so that I don't pass it on, basically.

[1131] There's a lot of genetic pain and suffering that gets passed on anyway.

[1132] As parents, we should be doing the most of what we can to try and say, you know what, that happened to me?

[1133] I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen to you.

[1134] Yeah.

[1135] It's hard to do because some of it's so just in your...

[1136] It's really hard to do, but for me it comes down to awareness.

[1137] Like, I never saw it.

[1138] I never knew about it.

[1139] And then suddenly I started to piece it all together and go, okay, so this is where he went to school.

[1140] This is what happened.

[1141] I know this bit about his life.

[1142] I also know that's connected to his parents.

[1143] Yeah.

[1144] So that means that he's treating me the way that he was treated.

[1145] Exactly.

[1146] Which means how can I change that for my own kids?

[1147] And, well, here I am.

[1148] I now move my whole family to the U .S. well that wasn't the plan do you know what I mean but sometimes you've got to make decisions and put your family first and put your mental health first and when I'm talking about mental health again on that spectrum piece like mental illness is at one end and then total joy and happiness is at the other and no one's there by the way no one's really there certain days and certain weeks of course you can be there Tom Hanks no he is ups and downs but life is a roller coaster ride and the way that I view it now and it gives me such peace of mind which is the bad stuff that happens, what can you learn from it?

[1149] If the universe is basically saying to you, right, I'm going to school you, what can I take from each of those moments that's going to make me better prepared for the next time around?

[1150] And if you go into life like that, certainly for me, it helps so much.

[1151] I just got so excited.

[1152] One of our big fascinations is the simulation.

[1153] How could Harry not have thought this is a simulation?

[1154] Because he would be going, oh, I was born a prince.

[1155] What are the odds?

[1156] And I'm the one person to leave.

[1157] Yes.

[1158] This is impossible.

[1159] We're pretty sure we're in a simulation.

[1160] Really?

[1161] What did you mean in the moment I opened that door?

[1162] It's going to be like, great.

[1163] Thank you so much.

[1164] Okay, we don't need you anymore in this role.

[1165] I was like, what do you mean?

[1166] What, you mean?

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] Yeah, you did your part.

[1169] You're cut.

[1170] Don't worry.

[1171] We're going to kill you off.

[1172] And yeah, down the elevator shelf, you could be that.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] Ours is the least egocentric version of this because we believe we're in her father's simulation.

[1175] So he came here from India.

[1176] So we think he's somewhere and he bought this amazing story.

[1177] He bought a package.

[1178] It's like, he's going to move and he's going to be very successful and then his daughter is going to do so well.

[1179] Okay.

[1180] This question is for you.

[1181] Okay.

[1182] What are you doing?

[1183] How long do we have left?

[1184] Three and a half hours.

[1185] Five minutes.

[1186] Yeah, five minutes.

[1187] That's an hour and a half gone.

[1188] Yeah.

[1189] I know.

[1190] Doesn't time stop?

[1191] That's called flow, the state of flow.

[1192] We get in it in this attic.

[1193] Well, the boring thing is you've got what two or three pages of questions there.

[1194] You've actually looked at it twice.

[1195] I can memorize this stuff.

[1196] And also, sometimes we don't.

[1197] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1198] We go with the flow.

[1199] We follow the rhythm.

[1200] Okay, this is questions for Monica.

[1201] Have you watched the Crown?

[1202] Questions for Monica?

[1203] He's asking you.

[1204] When I told you I don't know much about the Royals, we've had 35 arguments on this podcast because she loves the crown.

[1205] And she keeps trying to get me hooked into it.

[1206] And I'm like, why do you know the Crown?

[1207] I love the Crown because I am fascinated by the fact that everyone involved is living a life that looks very privileged and they are torporated.

[1208] They're all suffering so deeply.

[1209] And like, I have so much compassion for everyone when I'm watching it.

[1210] The show is so slow, quote, but there's so much emotional depth.

[1211] And I didn't know.

[1212] I didn't know about any of the stuff.

[1213] I also, like, wasn't super knowledgeable.

[1214] I just didn't know that everyone was so.

[1215] And this is what I'm saying when I said, like, I think when everyone says, you should know what you're getting yourself into.

[1216] There's no way to know.

[1217] that that life comes with such a sacrifice, a huge sacrifice for a country.

[1218] Like, I can't wrap my head around that.

[1219] Being born with the weight of the country on your shoulders?

[1220] Yeah, it's hard enough to sacrifice for someone you care about, let alone, like, people you don't know a whole country, and it's just being cast, a concept, exactly.

[1221] A mental construct.

[1222] You only know what you know, right?

[1223] So I think that there's a difference there between those of us and the family that have been born into it and those that have married into it coming from a relatively normal life.

[1224] Yeah.

[1225] Yeah.

[1226] Coming into that is a real shock.

[1227] Yeah.

[1228] Huge shock.

[1229] The you only know what you know is part of the fascination.

[1230] It's like, we all only know what we know.

[1231] We all are in our own fish bowls of some sort and are getting past information down that we just take, we take unless you force yourself to come out of it and like you did, which is so I have so much admiration because especially after watching that, even though I know it's a show.

[1232] What you did truly seems impossible and takes so much strength.

[1233] And I have tons of admiration for you doing that, for your family and for you.

[1234] And if things go sideways with you and Megan, just...

[1235] We have a house right over there.

[1236] We could be neighbors.

[1237] We go to the dudes all the time.

[1238] No, it's really amazing.

[1239] It really is.

[1240] That's sweet.

[1241] I think one of the points was like when you realize that you're damned if you're doing and damned if you don't, at that point, I guess I have to thank the UK press at this point.

[1242] because it got so bad, so quickly.

[1243] It liberated you.

[1244] Yeah, it was like.

[1245] Forced you into a corner.

[1246] The moment you're able to acknowledge that fear and go, actually, I'm no longer scared of you.

[1247] I'm no longer scared of doing or saying what you want me to do or say.

[1248] You've basically confronted an abuser, which is like the most scary idea in the world.

[1249] Exactly right.

[1250] And I think it takes a very special personality to do it.

[1251] I know you're saying you were kind of forced into it, but other people in your family are in this similar position.

[1252] I did wonder, do you think you could have done it if you were the oldest?

[1253] I don't know.

[1254] I don't know the answer to that question.

[1255] Okay, that's probably too dodgy of a question to even ask you.

[1256] So you've never seen it, I would imagine.

[1257] Or have you seen it, the crown?

[1258] I managed to get away with...

[1259] Not answering.

[1260] You should run out of answer.

[1261] James Gordon asked me the same question.

[1262] I've seen elements of that.

[1263] I'm sure everyone you talked to is going to ask you that, but it's a very good show.

[1264] It's a good show.

[1265] I hear it's very popular.

[1266] I'm trying to...

[1267] Well, knowing I was going to ask you that on Monica's behalf, I was, again, and trying to imagine, okay, so I was born in this thing, they make a move.

[1268] They make, you know, like seven seasons about my family.

[1269] I would certainly be curious, and then also I would feel very protective.

[1270] I would be like, I don't want an artist to interpret what my mother being killed was like.

[1271] I don't want people to indulge in that.

[1272] It's like, you know, it's a bad idea right from the get -go, but you're very drawn to find out as well.

[1273] I think we all are, right?

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] And social media really plays off those, weaknesses and that vulnerability to a certain extent.

[1276] But I don't think you ever get used to it.

[1277] But it is part of that life where you kind of have to, well, at least certainly I was told this for many years, it's just the way that it is.

[1278] You have to accept that they are going to write X, Y, Z about you.

[1279] It's like, but what if it's not true?

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] And it's like, well, just don't show them that you care.

[1282] Because if you show them that you care, then they're going to do it more and more and more.

[1283] So basically, you're screwed.

[1284] Like, there's absolutely no way out of this.

[1285] And so, yeah.

[1286] Well, there is a way out and you found it.

[1287] I mean, you did it.

[1288] Yeah, that's true.

[1289] You would have never gone to the sand dunes with me. That would have never happened.

[1290] You realize that?

[1291] Well, it still hasn't happened yet.

[1292] And it won't happen as long as you've got the RAF.

[1293] Flag on the side of your buggy, it ain't going to happen.

[1294] So I'll put, I don't know, what would you prefer?

[1295] Yeah, what do you want on there?

[1296] What do you want on there?

[1297] Oh, that's a good question.

[1298] KFC logo?

[1299] Because in an out logo.

[1300] In an out logo.

[1301] I can do that.

[1302] Yeah, I could have that stickered up, no problem.

[1303] Well, Harry, I've really, really liked talking to you.

[1304] You're very charming.

[1305] You're very intelligent.

[1306] You're handsome, and I can't wait to see your torso.

[1307] Back to the diary of torso.

[1308] Thank you so much for coming.

[1309] This is lovely.

[1310] If I'd known we were going to be in a small little room above your garage, I wouldn't have come.

[1311] Exactly.

[1312] We kept that part quiet.

[1313] Especially when there's a really nice RV part around the back.

[1314] Why are we not in there?

[1315] I came out, it's like, oh, this is nice.

[1316] It's like, no, no, no, we're over there.

[1317] It's like, what?

[1318] In the building site?

[1319] You'll understand this better than anyone, Harry.

[1320] That is for my private life and this is for my public life.

[1321] What's in the lobby there?

[1322] Sex layer for my wife.

[1323] You name it.

[1324] It's all in there.

[1325] Well, thanks a million for coming down and doing this in person.

[1326] It was really fun.

[1327] That's all.

[1328] Nice to see you guys.

[1329] And thanks for the laughs.

[1330] So I just want to remind everyone that May 21st on Apple Plus, you should check out Oprah and Prince Harry's The Me You Can't see.

[1331] I have to imagine it's similar to her book, which I just read, which is absolutely incredible.

[1332] What happened to you.

[1333] So everyone should check out The Me You Can't See on Apple Plus May 21st.

[1334] What a combo.

[1335] I think, look, for the Me, you can't see, encourage everybody to watch it really, because what it will do is it will prove that you are not alone.

[1336] And I think after the last for 16 months, maybe more now, people are feeling really lonely.

[1337] Well, now they're literally and figuratively alone.

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] And we're moving from the physical to the emotional.

[1340] right physically at the beginning of this pandemic people were panicking and there was that fight or flight like ah what do we do like lockdown scared yeah yeah and now that the vaccines have been sort of we're getting to the point of where more and more people are being vaccinated we're now in the emotional phase of what i read in the new york times article is called languishing which is really interesting it's like the it's the middle child between flourishing and depression yeah and you just feel flat and it's not depressed it's definitely not flourishing you lack the energy and the will to your motivation, all that kind of stuff, because you're kind of sitting there going, well, what happens next?

[1341] Yeah, you've lost momentum.

[1342] Yeah, and I think it's really important that we talk about languishing, and it was a coin by someone I can't remember who, but I think it was the journalist who wrote the story was Adam Grant.

[1343] Oh, we talked to him all the time.

[1344] Adam's our best friend.

[1345] I did not know he came up with that or...

[1346] No, yeah, he didn't come up with it.

[1347] Someone else came up with it, but he wrote the most amazing article about languishing and the fact that how important it is to be able to talk about it because, look, when it comes to mental health, when we need to realize and accept, every single one of us have mental health.

[1348] Yes, right?

[1349] And then there's a varying, the degrees, as we said, you've got the mental illness, and then you've got the awareness and the work that you can put in.

[1350] Like, where do you want to be there?

[1351] We shouldn't just sit there and go, oh, mental illness is once we are literally on the floor crawling around in the fetal position, needing help.

[1352] But for me, I don't think I need therapy anymore, but I want it.

[1353] And when I say therapy, I mean, actual therapy sitting down and having a discussion with someone but I also mean like nature like going for walks like throwing the ball for my dog down the beach and stuff like that there are certain things around the world that are free some you have to pay for but ultimately go searching for the things that make you feel good about yourself like that's the key to life get rid of the bad stuff get rid of the hate and just focus on the good and your whole life turns around from that well in this notion that there's a separation between mental health and your physical health is kind of comical because like I have psoriotic arthritis and I'll tell you when my head's not right lo and behold I have a flare -up if I have too much stress and I'm not dealing with it right I have a fucking flare -up so there's no division yeah there's no division it's your health but I also hate this idea and I was one of them I fell for it right I didn't acknowledge that clearly what happened to me when I was 12 years old losing my mom and all the other pieces that happened the traumatic experiences that happened to me since then I didn't acknowledge well perhaps maybe I need to deal with this.

[1354] I need to process this because if I don't, how the hell am I going to be a decent father to my son and my daughter?

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] Like that awareness I didn't have then.

[1357] But again, we've got 14 experts as part of this series.

[1358] And the Surgeon General, Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, who you probably know.

[1359] We've had her out.

[1360] She's absolutely fantastic.

[1361] And she was talking about this concept of mental health being sort of public health, right?

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] Because the services are so limited.

[1364] There's not enough money.

[1365] The problem is actually.

[1366] immense.

[1367] How can we all help each other rather than this oh once I'm broken or once I'm suffering I have to go here and there's not enough rooms or spaces for the amount of people or for the need when actually you can get ahead of it and work on the prevention by sharing and being more vulnerable with each other and being able to process this grief or this loss or this trauma that every single one of us have experienced and will experience.

[1368] So anyone who's sitting there going I don't have a problem and I never will have a problem well you probably are already contributing to the problem because you've probably got your blinkers on you've probably created your own echo chain blinders in the US So I think it's that That's certainly what I've experienced For my own process My own journey in my family And my friends and everybody else Is anyone who thinks Oh we're fine You're the one who's like willing to talk about it It's like yeah I'm willing to talk about it And talking about it has helped me heal.

[1369] Yeah.

[1370] Now I need to help you guys.

[1371] Yeah.

[1372] You know.

[1373] And we're incentivized to do it because not dealing with it, there's all these predictable outcomes.

[1374] There's health outcomes.

[1375] There's incarceration outcomes.

[1376] There's all these outcomes that we all pay for, all downriver if we don't confront this stuff.

[1377] And the financial element as well.

[1378] Yeah.

[1379] We're pouring money into all the downriver shit.

[1380] Downstream.

[1381] Yeah.

[1382] When it's like, can we just focus upstream?

[1383] Yeah.

[1384] If we focus on one thing, like to me, as I said to Oprah as well, one of the reasons that this whole thing started was two of the biggest issues that we're facing in today's world, I think, is the climate crisis and mental health.

[1385] And they're both intrinsically linked.

[1386] They are.

[1387] And it's basically if we neglect our collective well -being, then we're screwed, basically, because we can't look after ourselves.

[1388] We can't look after each other.

[1389] We can't look after this home that we all inhabit.

[1390] So it's all part of the same thing.

[1391] Prince Harry, I don't say this lightly.

[1392] I love you.

[1393] Thanks for coming.

[1394] This was great.

[1395] Thank you so much.

[1396] Thank you very much.

[1397] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1398] This is a really rare fun thing to do.

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] We're doing a fact check immediately after our guests left.

[1401] Yes, which means there are no facts.

[1402] But we just want to do a little debrief because how could we not after this guest?

[1403] You got a debrief.

[1404] Let's start with the obvious stuff.

[1405] Pretty fucking cute in person.

[1406] Oh, my God.

[1407] So cute.

[1408] Right?

[1409] Yes.

[1410] Were you on the ropes?

[1411] Very, very handsome and charming.

[1412] Very charming.

[1413] Very tall.

[1414] Very tall.

[1415] Very good with his words.

[1416] Lean.

[1417] Also lean.

[1418] That's not your thing as much as mine, but I liked it.

[1419] He was lovely.

[1420] For me, having not ever really consumed anything of his.

[1421] Yes.

[1422] Incredibly smart.

[1423] Very.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] I was pretty impressed.

[1426] And we have to.

[1427] to address the big elephant in the room, you're against the royals, generally.

[1428] And now, now how do you feel?

[1429] Now I love the royals.

[1430] Now I support the monarchy.

[1431] I think every country should be a monarchy.

[1432] And I think everyone should inherit power just by being born.

[1433] Okay, great.

[1434] Yeah.

[1435] No, I think the thing I wanted to say about this episode is I'm in a unique position right now where I'm surrounded by some Brits.

[1436] Yes.

[1437] And when the Oprah interview happened, I had missed it, but then I feel like I'm just making an excuse for myself.

[1438] I did watch it.

[1439] That's the bottom line.

[1440] All my friends had watched it and I wanted to talk to them about it and I watched it.

[1441] Yeah.

[1442] I don't have a huge interest in that.

[1443] Again, now I'm just making an excuse.

[1444] I watched it.

[1445] And so when I watched it and then I was talking to a friend of mine from England and he had such a different opinion on that Oprah interview.

[1446] Like really different from mine, how he interpreted everything.

[1447] And I found that confusing because this friend of mine is very, very intelligent and very thoughtful and very, he's just wonderful.

[1448] Yeah.

[1449] So it made me go like, huh, what else is at play here?

[1450] And what I feel like I've come to is, I think we underestimate our own patriotism quite often, or at least I underestimate mine quite often.

[1451] Like, I'm an American.

[1452] It's part of my identity.

[1453] And so the analogy I thought of is, I imagine that if a Chinese national had wooed one of the Obama daughters, be it Sasha or Malia, and then took them back to China to live forever, and then did interviews in China about inside workings of our evil capitalist system, I think I would be inclined to not like that guy.

[1454] I think I would, some patriotism in me would just be like, fuck that guy.

[1455] and fuck he know what does he know about the obamas or our country yeah so in that way i think i've come to peace or understand why there's these pretty different views of this whole situation over here versus in england yeah what is definitive that the real bad guy in my opinion of this whole story is the tabloids yeah they did side by side Megan and kate doing the same thing holding their belly in public well one was the sign of a a doting mother.

[1456] The other was an egotomaniac.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] Eating avocado, they both ate avocado.

[1459] One was poisoning her kid.

[1460] One was nourishing her kid.

[1461] Like, this is stark.

[1462] Clearly, the tabloids were either motivated out of xenophobia or racism because the handling of those two ladies was polar opposite.

[1463] That's kind of undeniable.

[1464] Oh, yeah.

[1465] And I think, I mean, that's in keeping with the ding, ding, ding with the whole episode.

[1466] The tabloids there are so extreme that, I mean, peek behind the curtain when we're, figuring out this interview and I'm talking to his people and stuff, like there's a big push to release this a little later.

[1467] By the way, it is getting released a little later than it normally is.

[1468] And that is because the British tabloids are going to have a frenzy.

[1469] And it was told us that that that was going to happen.

[1470] Like there's no like in the off chance that the tabloids might say something.

[1471] It's like, no, no, no, this is going to be a big thing.

[1472] They're going to write all kinds of crazy stuff.

[1473] They're going to write stuff about him and her and you.

[1474] I might get blasted.

[1475] Get used.

[1476] Like, that's going to happen.

[1477] And so we want to, like, hold the timing so that the American press can also have time as well.

[1478] And I was like, oh, my God, the fact that they have to consider that just goes to show how deep this whole thing runs.

[1479] I almost brought this up, but then I didn't.

[1480] When I was researching him and I typed his name in to get to.

[1481] some biography of him, the news part pops up, right?

[1482] And I was looking at some of the headlines.

[1483] And I saw one of the headlines said, like, Prince Harry thinks this about his brother.

[1484] So I clicked on it.

[1485] Yeah.

[1486] Come to find out, I read the fucking article.

[1487] He said nothing to that effect.

[1488] There is a royal expert that somehow knows how Harry feels.

[1489] Oh, my God.

[1490] And literally the headline says it as if Harry proclaimed it.

[1491] And I'm like, oh, my God, you have, how embarrassing.

[1492] First of all, if you're a royal expert who fucking gets into the psychology of the royals, I think that's insane.

[1493] That's your specialty is being clairvoyant on what the royals think.

[1494] Yeah.

[1495] But it was printed as if he had said it.

[1496] And you've got to read to find out, oh, no, an expert, a royal expert has figured this out about how he feels.

[1497] And I was like, oh, that level, you know, as much as you can complain about being an actor and that level is so different.

[1498] Oh, that's why I was talking to Callie before this interview, and, you know, she just lived in London for a year.

[1499] And she was like, when is that happening?

[1500] And I was like, oh, in the next few days.

[1501] And she was like, Monica, they're going to freak out in England.

[1502] You don't understand.

[1503] And I was like, really?

[1504] I can't equate it.

[1505] Like, it's not like any celebrity here.

[1506] It's a mix of the biggest celebrity and the biggest politician.

[1507] So you're mixing like a...

[1508] Perfect storm.

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] She's like, there's just no, there's nothing like it here.

[1511] Double whammy.

[1512] It's a double whammy.

[1513] It's a double entendre.

[1514] It's a satisfizer.

[1515] It is novel and proprietary.

[1516] But I was like, oh, wow, it's just so weird that it's on another level.

[1517] Yeah, the attention.

[1518] The attention.

[1519] Yeah, yeah.

[1520] But I'm really grateful that he took the time and he drove to our silly attic.

[1521] From fucking far.

[1522] From a few hours away.

[1523] Yeah.

[1524] And it was really fun, I thought.

[1525] It was.

[1526] I liked it a lot.

[1527] Me too.

[1528] We had had a previous argument about whether you had said to me, listen, you might have to call him the Duke of Sussex.

[1529] Yeah.

[1530] And I said, I won't do that.

[1531] Yeah.

[1532] And then you said, don't be a fucking idiot, which you're right to say.

[1533] And then I said, I can't not be me. I'm not going to call someone some fairy tale.

[1534] It never came up.

[1535] It never came up.

[1536] I asked his person, her name is Toy and she's lovely.

[1537] Well, she said, should he just call you guys Dax and Monica?

[1538] And I said, yeah, unless he wants to give us some sort of royal title.

[1539] I would like to be the Duke of Milford.

[1540] Well, exactly.

[1541] And I'm the Duchess of Duluth.

[1542] Duchess of Duluth.

[1543] Oh, that has a nice ring to it.

[1544] It really does.

[1545] I'm going to start introducing you as the Duchess of Duluth in our intros.

[1546] Okay.

[1547] Oh, fuck.

[1548] No, and it can build, like, you know how they have a lot of names.

[1549] So it can be Monica, Duchess of Duluth, miniature mouse of Peachtree Street.

[1550] Well, he also has, in addition to the title, he has six or seven names, by the way.

[1551] No, that's what I mean.

[1552] Oh, but I mean like normal names.

[1553] He's like, he's like Harold, Mike, David, Pete, Frank.

[1554] It's part of the, they get passed down names from the family, and then that.

[1555] I know.

[1556] He's got like seven first names.

[1557] None of them being Harry.

[1558] Well, that was his nickname.

[1559] Oh, you're right.

[1560] But Harold.

[1561] I don't think Harold was one of them.

[1562] Really?

[1563] No. Wait.

[1564] We have to look this up because, oh my God, you're right, Henry.

[1565] Henry.

[1566] They're using Harry from Henry.

[1567] That's cute.

[1568] But generally the nickname for Henry is Hank.

[1569] Yeah, I'm glad it's not Hank.

[1570] Yeah, that doesn't have a good ring to it.

[1571] It certainly doesn't.

[1572] But anyway, she asked if we wanted to be called Tex and Monica.

[1573] I said, yeah, how should we refer to him?

[1574] And I said, probably won't come up because we'll just be in person.

[1575] It'll just be you.

[1576] And she said, I always say just like Prince Harry or Duke of Sussex.

[1577] And he'll tell you immediately just to call him Harry.

[1578] But I let him do that.

[1579] But it never came up with the never came up.

[1580] Maybe you should have done it because then he could have shown that side of himself, his humility.

[1581] It seemed really obvious.

[1582] He was very humble.

[1583] So I didn't think I needed.

[1584] Wait, what's his name from?

[1585] Henry?

[1586] Uh -huh.

[1587] What have you said?

[1588] Call me Henry?

[1589] re.

[1590] We were like, oh, we were almost there.

[1591] So close.

[1592] Like, it was in between the full royal title and Harry.

[1593] Once we get closer, I like an incremental intimacy.

[1594] I wish he and Megan the longest happiest marriage.

[1595] And I'm glad that we got your foot in the door.

[1596] Okay.

[1597] I'm not going to disagree.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] I mean, you live right across the street.

[1600] I do.

[1601] You paint like a pretty nice picture of what life could be like.

[1602] I do.

[1603] Well, I love you.

[1604] I love you.

[1605] That was really fun.

[1606] Really fun.

[1607] Are you glad I asked him about the Crown?

[1608] Would you have asked him about the Crown?

[1609] No. Yeah.

[1610] I was decidedly not asking him about the Crown, but I'm glad you did.

[1611] Well, I felt like I had cover fire because it was in your honor.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] Yeah.

[1614] Like, if I loved it, I might not have asked about it.

[1615] I got to get into it.

[1616] You know, I have watched some episodes, and it's a great show.

[1617] It is so well done.

[1618] The acting is so good.

[1619] Olivia Coleman.

[1620] Ooh, I wanted to point out one other thing, but I didn't want to do in front of him.

[1621] I guess now I'm talking behind your back, Harry, but it's not my style, Henry.

[1622] You know, someone else has left before as well.

[1623] And do you know why they left?

[1624] The uncle, because of the marriage, yeah.

[1625] To an American.

[1626] I know.

[1627] I know all about this because they talk about it on, it's a big part of the crown.

[1628] But isn't it wild that the two times people left their service, it was for American ladies?

[1629] Yeah.

[1630] Hey, American ladies, way to be powerful.

[1631] That's why the English don't like American ladies.

[1632] But yeah, good for American ladies.

[1633] Yeah.

[1634] I was shocked by that.

[1635] I didn't know that history.

[1636] I mean, I knew that a king had abdicated the throne.

[1637] Yeah.

[1638] Oh, I said his uncle.

[1639] That's not right.

[1640] It is his uncle.

[1641] So his great -grandfather came in.

[1642] He was the one the king's speech.

[1643] Yeah, exactly.

[1644] And it was his brother who had abdicated.

[1645] Exactly.

[1646] So Charles's uncle.

[1647] Yeah.

[1648] So that's his...

[1649] Henry's great -great -uncle.

[1650] Great -great.

[1651] Or just great -uncle.

[1652] Okay, yeah.

[1653] Okay.

[1654] Really great -uncle.

[1655] He's a great -uncle.

[1656] All right.

[1657] Love you.

[1658] Love you.

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