4 - Go Forth and Murder

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only murders in the building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[17] Welcome.

[18] That's Karen.

[19] I'm Georgia.

[20] That's Georgia.

[21] Two girls, one murder.

[22] Obsessed with true crime, both of us.

[23] With bad things.

[24] Bad things happening.

[25] We love it.

[26] We want to know all about it, so it'll never happen to us.

[27] And it turns out so to a lot of other people.

[28] Yeah.

[29] Because lots of people have been telling us about how much they like it.

[30] We got a lot of emails from the last episodes of people telling us their town murders, which I love and is like so exciting.

[31] And we haven't read them yet because we want to surprise each other with it.

[32] Yes.

[33] But so many, I would look at the first line in Gmail and it would say like these little things because I'm fucking curious and I want to know what they say.

[34] But so many people like, I didn't, I'm so, I was always so embarrassed that this is a thing that I was into, which I'm like, what?

[35] I'm trying to talk to everyone about it.

[36] I know.

[37] Well, that's how I felt when I was younger.

[38] Yeah.

[39] Like that I was like crazy.

[40] Or people would think that you wanted to murder people.

[41] Right, exactly.

[42] And then the second I started doing stand -up and every other stand -up comic knew every serial killer backwards and forwards.

[43] I was like, oh, I get it.

[44] wonder what it is.

[45] Anxious people?

[46] Yeah.

[47] Probably.

[48] And it's so fascinating.

[49] Yeah.

[50] It's like the worst of humanity.

[51] Yeah.

[52] I wonder if it's a little OCD -ish, too, where you're like, I need to know everything about this now.

[53] Yeah.

[54] And everything that's related to it.

[55] Yeah.

[56] Please help help me prepare for when I run face -to -face right into John Wayne Gasey.

[57] Because now you and I are going to be able to fucking beat up any serial killer murderer.

[58] I found a new podcast.

[59] Not new.

[60] It's really old.

[61] But they talk about murderers and stuff a lot.

[62] Maybe I shouldn't plug it because then it's like, go ahead.

[63] No, it's really good.

[64] It's called, have you thinking sideways podcast?

[65] No, I've never heard of that.

[66] It's like a girl and two dudes and they just talk about like weird shit and a lot of it is murder.

[67] It's great.

[68] I like it.

[69] I started listening to Joe DeRosa and Pat Walsh's podcast.

[70] I'll see you in hell.

[71] Oh my God.

[72] Which, because I had to drive home from San Francisco yesterday, six hours.

[73] So I listened to many.

[74] And it was really hilarious.

[75] I recommend that.

[76] What do they talk about?

[77] They talk about horror movies.

[78] They put on a horror movie, but then they just talk over it.

[79] You can't hear it or anything.

[80] They just tell you what movie it is and they talk about it incidentally as they have conversations.

[81] It sounds like it shouldn't work, but I bet it's fucking great.

[82] Well, it's so great because they both have these insane comprehensive encyclopedic humilage of movies.

[83] So any tangent they go on, they know exactly who and what they're talking about, which of course was a real sore spot for me. As I, anytime I bring up a subject, I'm like, you know, the thing that happened that time.

[84] Hold on, hold on.

[85] Well, you need, like, the right person to fill in the blanks.

[86] And you're just like, oh, this is why I'm friends with you is because you, like, I was just rambling and you were, and you filled it in and that's the best.

[87] That's what we do, right?

[88] It's totally what we do.

[89] Oh, I was going to make you say the last part.

[90] Didn't work.

[91] I guess I'm not good at that part.

[92] That's on this podcast.

[93] It's a do.

[94] Thank you.

[95] Thank you.

[96] I'm really excited audience because Georgia got no couches.

[97] And when I was listening to our first episode, there's a sound in the background at the entire time.

[98] It's me squeaking on my couch.

[99] Like, I'm just constantly moving around.

[100] Oh, it was a leather couch.

[101] It was making me laugh so hard.

[102] Oh, God, I didn't do it notice.

[103] So that's a, but no, it's all cleared up.

[104] I got these for podcasting.

[105] So they don't make background noise and podcasting.

[106] Perfect podcasting couch.

[107] You can write them off.

[108] Wait, not that I make any money on podcasting.

[109] This is not a money -making venture, everyone.

[110] Don't quit your job.

[111] You never know.

[112] You don't ever know.

[113] You don't ever know.

[114] Like getting murdered.

[115] Yep.

[116] Should we jump into it or should we talk about making a murderer?

[117] Have you been reading all the making a murderer theories?

[118] Well, the natural backlash has happened.

[119] Yeah.

[120] Pretty sure he's guilty now.

[121] Are you?

[122] I'm pretty sure he's guilty now.

[123] Are you really?

[124] Yes.

[125] I think that's very adult of you to be able to change positions.

[126] Yeah.

[127] Doesn't feel good.

[128] Well, look, here's the thing.

[129] And this is the one thing I agree with.

[130] In general, I think he's innocent and I think very bad things are happening in that state.

[131] I think people, there's a natural backlash when you get kind of spoon fed in ants, not an answer, but like a villain.

[132] And like, here's really what happened.

[133] And they're leaving just enough pieces free so you can put the mystery together yourself.

[134] And then everyone thinks they got it and they're on it.

[135] So there's always the hot take of like, no, actually.

[136] Right.

[137] Because everyone wants to know details.

[138] Right.

[139] Well, that's the problem is the people who are looking up details are like, oh, this documentary was really one -sided.

[140] And you guys left so much shit out, which makes me suspect of you.

[141] Yeah.

[142] And suspect of your conclusion.

[143] Yeah, but none of the details that I read, and I admittedly only read maybe two articles skimmed, half -skimmed while I was doing two other things.

[144] But the piece of evidence that, that they brought up didn't sway me toward him.

[145] They didn't, it was like that thing of like, I don't think it's proof.

[146] The things that they mention, that was evidence that got left out, was not stronger evidence than like bones in the fire pit or...

[147] Do you know what I think?

[148] I think that someone on that property, someone's, did it.

[149] But maybe it wasn't Steve every...

[150] And I think Brendan Dassey knows or participate.

[151] it in it.

[152] Really?

[153] Yeah.

[154] Because if you go back, which I've done now and read his whole 10 hours of transcript, there's shit they're not feeding him that are too, it's too much of a narrative.

[155] But he said it's from Kiss the Girls.

[156] I remember that part near the end.

[157] I know.

[158] I love that part.

[159] He's like, it's from Kiss the Girls.

[160] Yeah, no, he might have made that up.

[161] There's some shit that it's like, this really, this is a narrative you're telling and you're too stupid to like make up this story that sounds this much of a narrative right it's just that no zero blood anywhere i know which is why i'm like it probably happened somewhere else and it wasn't maybe it wasn't steven i just it's been three minutes i've already changed my mind the family well no i mean i think that's good you have to continually re -approach it uh like the district circuit court judge that you are and always stay neutral did you know i went to school yeah um But I don't know.

[162] I'm much more interested in, like, you can tell that there's a real systemic problem.

[163] Oh, that's not even.

[164] I'm not talking about that.

[165] Yeah.

[166] Those people do whatever they want.

[167] You can tell that that district attorney just does whatever he wants.

[168] I think the key was planted.

[169] I think that probably maybe the blood was planted.

[170] I don't think that he got a fair trial and everything.

[171] It's much interesting.

[172] One of the things that kind of led me down a rabbit hole is people are saying that the key that, They found, that's a spare key that's like maybe the brother, they're like, we know it's Stephen Avery and he gave him a spare key.

[173] The brother gave her spare key to him to like plant.

[174] And there's like a photo that they keep showing of her standing by her car with her camera and stuff and you can see her big old keychain for holding it in there.

[175] It's like, so that her purse wasn't found, nothing was found.

[176] And then the ex -boyfriend, there's the picture where he has a scratch on his hand.

[177] Right.

[178] Like a human fingernail scratch that's really long.

[179] Yeah.

[180] I don't think they had anything to do it.

[181] I think they probably found the car.

[182] But I bet they like trespassed onto the CV.

[183] This is all based on shit that I've read on Reddit too, by the way.

[184] I'm not taking any fucking credit for that.

[185] Found the car because they knew that she was going there.

[186] Called the cops up and it was an illegal fucking fine.

[187] And so they made that the woman who's in the search party go find the car.

[188] Right.

[189] Does it make any, nobody, anyone who's listening to who hasn't watched it.

[190] Everyone's watched it.

[191] Everyone's watched it in America and decided.

[192] It's going to be interesting to see if anything actually really.

[193] What happened with that?

[194] Were you reading these papers off of that anonymous, like, file dump?

[195] No. You know, Anonymous went in and, like, released all those files.

[196] I'm interested.

[197] I don't know.

[198] But then there was a thing today that, that was it today or yesterday that was, there's a serial killer that they think is good for her murder.

[199] Oh, I fucking totally.

[200] He's in the background of a, in the video.

[201] Yeah.

[202] And he was, there's a serial killer.

[203] He was known for going to the trials of the people he would frame.

[204] Yeah.

[205] But he's a big old fat unhealthy dude.

[206] Sorry, what's the problem?

[207] Well, how could he like a young Sprite woman?

[208] Although I guess if you're like, help me, I need help.

[209] And you just push her in the van.

[210] Yeah, it's a classic Buffalo Bill scenario.

[211] Yeah.

[212] Totally.

[213] Totally that guy.

[214] For a second.

[215] What are you size 14?

[216] A big old fat girl.

[217] Big old fat girl.

[218] Is she a big old fat person?

[219] Get me out of here, you bitch.

[220] Me and my sister just watched this that silence of lambs.

[221] And I was saying Clary Starling's lines two seconds before she would say them.

[222] And this is how I know my sister loves me. She never told me to shut up.

[223] Because we've been watching TV together for so long.

[224] She's just dused in my insanity.

[225] But I couldn't not do it.

[226] That's nice.

[227] I do that.

[228] And then I apologize the whole time, but I still keep doing it.

[229] Yeah.

[230] I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[231] But I'm like, just keep fucking doing it.

[232] Tell me his name, Dr. Lecter.

[233] How do you not do that when you know that that's what she's going to say and you can do it just like her?

[234] That is the best movie.

[235] It's really true.

[236] Did your niece watch it with you?

[237] No, no. Oh, God, I was like, she's going to have a nightmare for the rest of her life.

[238] She's only nine.

[239] No. I think I had seen it by that.

[240] I think I'm ruined.

[241] I think my...

[242] You saw it when you were nine?

[243] I think I saw it when I was very young.

[244] I don't know, whatever.

[245] I read the book in college and actually...

[246] I was home alone all day and began to think I was Clary Starling as I was reading the book.

[247] I was so into it.

[248] I went insane.

[249] You probably were.

[250] I kind of was.

[251] Did I already tell you that story?

[252] No. Well, it's true.

[253] Hey, this is exciting.

[254] An all -new season of Only Murders in the Building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[255] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[256] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[257] Who killed Saz?

[258] And were they really after Charles?

[259] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[260] This season, murder hits close to home.

[261] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[262] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[263] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[264] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[265] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Davey, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[266] Only murders in the building, premieres, August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[267] Goodbye.

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[287] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[288] Goodbye.

[289] Uh, hey, Karen.

[290] Hey.

[291] What's your favorite murder?

[292] Well, I thought it would be good that I would do a little damage control since on our last episode, I was so, like, sloppy and inaccurate talking about Cropsey.

[293] That was one of the ones we were literally guessing what the name.

[294] of the thing was I was trying to talk about.

[295] We let everyone know that this is not an official report of anything that's happened.

[296] We're not doctors.

[297] You're looking in the wrong place.

[298] We're not therapists.

[299] But the story has all of the elements of murder, you know, creeper, urban legend story.

[300] Everything I love, it's got a mental hospital.

[301] It's got the woods.

[302] It's almost like, that's too much if someone had written this thing.

[303] Yeah.

[304] It's like you can pick one or the, other, but you can't have a mental hospital in the woods.

[305] I haven't seen it in so long.

[306] Tell me everything.

[307] Okay, so this is, the story of Cropsey was an urban legend on Staten Island, and it was, there was a hospital named Willow Brook, and it is a hospital for mentally challenged children, and they built it in, say, like, the early 40s.

[308] And it is on Staten Island set in the woods.

[309] And it's already creepy as fuck.

[310] It was a state institution, and it was built for 4 ,000 patients, but by 1965, it had 6 ,000 children in it.

[311] It was built for how many?

[312] 4 ,000.

[313] So it was way over capacity, and this was back when people used to dump their children.

[314] So, and it didn't matter if they had Down syndrome or if they were very, very, you know, there was something really wrong with them.

[315] Or they had like cerebral palsy, and they would just be like later days.

[316] Tons of cerebral palsy kids were completely intelligent and 100 % there just dumped.

[317] And so what ended up happening was, of course, because it's like a state -funded hospital.

[318] So it's over, it's overflowing with patients.

[319] What's the order I'm looking for us?

[320] I got it.

[321] It's good.

[322] Go with it.

[323] Understaffed, overpopulated.

[324] And so they end up, a reporter finally goes in.

[325] When we talked about it on the last episode, I said something really grandiose.

[326] Like Robert Kennedy shut it down, but...

[327] Heralda Rivera.

[328] Heralda Rivera.

[329] But Kennedy saw it in the 68 and said, this is a snake pit.

[330] This is a disgrace.

[331] And then he started doing all these reviews.

[332] And what had happened was all these children being in this close proximity, they found out it was like they were just in rooms naked, being hosed down.

[333] Horrible.

[334] There's no lighting.

[335] It was crazy.

[336] And a bunch of them started getting hepatitis.

[337] So then they had medical studies where they were testing hepatitis on these children.

[338] Like, might as well do some fucking scientific testing.

[339] Exactly.

[340] And they were basically giving them all hepatitis.

[341] They were getting it.

[342] It was, so anyway, with all of this, these social workers finally went in there, saw the conditions.

[343] They got a reporter in there, and that's what led.

[344] So a woman started writing exposés for, like, local newspaper.

[345] And then that's how Geraldo got on the scene.

[346] He worked.

[347] as an investigative reporter for W .A .B .C. in New York.

[348] So he went there and they did an expose story that ended up winning a P -Body because it was so...

[349] And they just kind of, like, they went when their doctors were gone and stuff, right?

[350] Or the doctors let them in?

[351] So, I don't know about the Geraldo part.

[352] I don't know how he got in.

[353] But the, we talked about this before.

[354] When you see the videotape, and there is a documentary called Willowbrook, like it's something like the Great Shame or something like this, something.

[355] like that it's um it gets mentioned a lot in all the research but um he basically went in and like the only lighting was the light on the camera it's so creepy it looks like uh like a american horror story like asylum like totally just exactly what you think it's supposed to be like it would be like 30 kids in a room naked sitting on the floor a cement floor rocking back and forth and then they talked to one guy and he was like one of the patients and he's like I have cerebral palsy and I I'm completely mentally functioning on 100%.

[356] Yeah.

[357] And I'm trapped in here.

[358] Nightmare.

[359] Okay.

[360] So that alone is a nightmare.

[361] That's Willowbrook nightmare.

[362] Geraldo being in it isn't great.

[363] But it ends up, with all that in the exposé, they passed legislation, but, you know, about like the rights of civil rights thing for patients and stuff, all this stuff.

[364] Well, so then the urban legend pops up.

[365] So they ended up closing it in 1987, but they basically closed it in 72 or four.

[366] After this expose, they came out.

[367] They shipped all of the patients to all different hospitals around.

[368] And there was only like 200 patients left.

[369] So it was basically empty.

[370] And that's when the urban legends started where it was there's a mental patient that's still on the grounds because there's a tunnel system underneath the hospital.

[371] And he's living in the tunnels at night he comes out and steals children.

[372] And that was the big thing on Staten Island in the 80s.

[373] Oh my God.

[374] How fucking terrifying to live in Staten Island.

[375] Crazy, right?

[376] And so the high school kids, the big thing was go through the woods and get to the mental hospital and, like, touch the wall of it or whatever.

[377] Absolutely not.

[378] And Cropsey's out there with you.

[379] So, and there's a great documentary called Cropsey where they go into all this, they have all the information that you need if you're fascinated because it's really good and fascinating.

[380] So just imagine like parents in the 80s being like, you'd be good or Cropsey's going to come get you in Staten Island.

[381] And you're like, well, actually, that could happen.

[382] Actually, it's happening.

[383] My mom would say, you'd be good.

[384] I'm going to call the Indian Reservation.

[385] I'm having to come get you, which is like so racist.

[386] My grandmother used to say, don't put, like, if you were holding money.

[387] Yeah.

[388] She'd say, don't put it, don't put it in your mouth.

[389] It could have been in a Chinaman's ear.

[390] What is that?

[391] Like, A, you're going to put money in your fucking mouth.

[392] Oh, my God.

[393] Racist.

[394] Just in like a chipper grandma way.

[395] Right.

[396] So anyway, so now, now we're going to introduce a new character.

[397] in this story.

[398] Okay.

[399] And it's a man named Andre Rand.

[400] And he was, he's described in one of the pages that I read as a mentally incompetent, convicted sex offender.

[401] That's fun.

[402] So he's got it all.

[403] Yeah.

[404] And he was a janitor at Willowbrook from 1960, like six to 1960.

[405] I feel like anyone you're going to hire to be a janitor there, you have to be like, no, you're fired because why, like, you're crazy, clearly.

[406] Yes.

[407] Well, and you've got to think if these children were being how.

[408] housed like animals, like no better than animals, probably worse in some ways.

[409] The staff that were there letting this happen and looking at it every day, not the greatest people you're going to want.

[410] Let's say they're not around.

[411] We can, we can pretty.

[412] I'm sure there's a couple gems and they're like, I'm staying because they need me and I'm the only hope they have.

[413] But the majority probably, I mean, in life, there's probably one out of 100 people who even like that.

[414] Yeah.

[415] So you're going to get people who are real good with throwing a bucket of water on a bunch of mentally ill children and walking out of the room.

[416] You're good with that, Andre?

[417] Okay, great, you've got the job.

[418] Okay, go, good.

[419] So, in the, so this guy gets the job in 66.

[420] Well, in 69, he works there from 66 to 68.

[421] In 69, he attempts to rape a nine -year -old girl, and just by chance, a cop car is driving by.

[422] He takes a nine -year -old girl into his car and to an empty lot, and, uh, takes off his clothes, her clothes are off, a cop car drives by.

[423] Sometimes life works well, you know?

[424] I mean, yeah, go on.

[425] This is an upside.

[426] This is one upside and it's hideous story.

[427] He gets sentenced to four years.

[428] He only serves 10 months.

[429] You know, the classic scenario.

[430] I hate everything.

[431] This is why we have to do this podcast is because our fucking penal system blows.

[432] Because we got to talk about it.

[433] We're going to affect change.

[434] Oh, clearly.

[435] By laying on these couches.

[436] I would have gotten 11 months if it was today because of us.

[437] So he gets out and then that would be 69 .71.

[438] In 72, a 9 -year -old girl named Alice Brerer disappears off Staten Island.

[439] Then in 1981, nine years later, a 7 -year -old girl named Holly Ann Hughes goes missing.

[440] And the eyewitnesses saw her with Rand.

[441] No way.

[442] And she's never seen again.

[443] And then in 1983, this is a real highlight for me. He picks up 11 children from a YMCA in a school bus, takes them in a White Castle, and then drives them to Newark Airport for five hours.

[444] And when he gets back, he gets arrested for kidnapping.

[445] Who the fuck is letting a guy who's been in prison for attempted rape drive a fucking bus of children?

[446] A school bus.

[447] Come on, the 80s.

[448] He rapes a nine -year -old.

[449] tries to rape a nine -year -old and then goes ahead and gets some job driving as the 80s needs to go to prison for fucking so this was back before we realized children were constantly in danger so in 83 an 11 -year -old name Tahit Jackson disappears walking to the store and this is 12 days after rand is released for prison I bet he was buying cigarettes for his mom like I bet that's what you know yeah that's the 80s I think that's what all of it this is because statin island is not that big no and I think it's like run down to the store for mommy and I think it's like run down to the store for mommy and I mean.

[450] And it's probably one of the girls lived in a motel.

[451] It's bad news anyway.

[452] Okay.

[453] So that was 11 days after he got out of prison for the kidnapping?

[454] 12 days.

[455] Fuck.

[456] 12 days.

[457] He does that.

[458] And that's the same year he did the YMCA school bus trick and then gets out of prison 12 days later, this kid goes missing.

[459] It's a girl.

[460] And then in 84, a 22 -year -old guy who was a really low IQ goes missing.

[461] and then in 87, a girl named Jennifer Schweiger goes missing and she has Down syndrome.

[462] And several eyewitnesses saw this guy, Andre Rand, leading her by the hand toward the woods.

[463] I mean, that alone, there's your poster for the horror movie.

[464] So they start searching for her, and after 35 days, they find her nude body in a shallow grave on the wall.

[465] Willowbrook property.

[466] And then a couple feet, you know, several feet away, Andre Rand has a makeshift campsite.

[467] He's been living on the Willowbrook grounds.

[468] And the whole urban legend is true.

[469] And they eventually, they charge him with kidnapping in first degree murder, but they can't make the murder stick for Jennifer Swiglin.

[470] No, no, no. They get him for first degree kidnapping and then they bring back.

[471] And then once he's in jail for that, he gets like 20 years.

[472] Then in 2004, he put him on trial for the Holly Hughes disappearance and he's convicted of kidnapping and he gets, now he's set to get out in 2035 or something like that when he's 95.

[473] So he's in, he's in for good.

[474] They also linked him to the disappearance of Ethel Atwell and the rape murder of Shinley who were both Willowbrook AIDS.

[475] I bet.

[476] Oh my God, that sucks, man. He's a beast.

[477] And he's, and it's basically the most fascinating story of that it all was true.

[478] What a bummer to go to work And then you get killed Like don't go in the woods Don't walk to the store by yourself But you're like, I'm just going to work Just going to work Just trying to pay my rent Oh fuck So that's Cropsey That's a good murder I mean it's what's good about It's the worst thing I've ever heard in my life You know That's the stats on this show Is like what's the worst thing You've ever heard in your life I mean don't you want to Why hasn't anyone gone into the tunnels in that hospital and, like, dug around archaeologically and tried to find...

[479] Karen, 100th episode.

[480] Let's fucking do it.

[481] We get a school bus full of 11 children and drive them to Staten Island.

[482] Pay Pallus the money to get plane tickets to Staten Island and to not stay on Staten Island because fuck that.

[483] We're staying in Manhattan.

[484] We got to stay in Manhattan.

[485] We got to see Hamilton.

[486] Yeah.

[487] We got to go to the shoe stores.

[488] Yeah.

[489] Then Cropsey.

[490] Then Cropsey.

[491] Yeah.

[492] Oh, brother.

[493] Yeah, that was mine.

[494] What's yours, Georgia?

[495] Well, what's interesting about both of ours is that the murderer in question, still alive in prison.

[496] Oh.

[497] Still alive.

[498] How were these, it's like, isn't it weird that this person, it's like in your mind, they're like, oh, they did these awful things that long ago, they're dead.

[499] Nope.

[500] No. They had dinner tonight.

[501] They watched some TV.

[502] They watched some TV.

[503] Yeah.

[504] At a conversation with the guard.

[505] Perhaps they played some bones.

[506] Probably play bones.

[507] That what people do in prison.

[508] all bones is.

[509] It's Domino's.

[510] Oh.

[511] I bet the, yeah, what do you think he had for dinner?

[512] Something gross.

[513] Chicken nuggets?

[514] Yeah.

[515] He had dinner, you got.

[516] That's better than what I've had for dinner.

[517] And he's a monster.

[518] And he's a monster.

[519] He's a monster.

[520] Speaking of monsters.

[521] Okay.

[522] My favorite murder is that of Michelle Wallace, Michelle with 1 -L.

[523] And I remember seeing, I love cold cases.

[524] Like, that's, I love when murders get solved, of course.

[525] Yeah.

[526] But cold cases are my, like, passion.

[527] in my dream.

[528] I'm passionate for people getting away with shit.

[529] Because it's just so curious.

[530] I'm just so curious.

[531] Yeah.

[532] But I also like that the answer's never like satisfying.

[533] It's always like, that's just some fucking janitor asshole did this to all these people?

[534] That's such a bummer.

[535] I wanted to be like a monster or something.

[536] Okay.

[537] So, and I remember watching a cold hiss of this a long time ago.

[538] And two things that stuck out to me. Okay, she's a 25 year old photographer.

[539] This is 1974.

[540] She lives in Chicago.

[541] She's like this free spirit photographer and she travels the world and taking photos and taking odd jobs and stuff.

[542] And she goes to, in 1974, goes to Oregon, spends a couple days in the Rocky Mountains, just taking some photos.

[543] I think I've seen this one.

[544] Yeah.

[545] Is it a forensic files?

[546] I think there's a forensic files on it.

[547] She's leaving the Rocky Mountains and she does the classic 1970s, I want to get murdered move.

[548] Do you know what that is?

[549] Is it hitchhiking?

[550] fucking hitchhikers.

[551] She picks up hitchhikers.

[552] Oh, she picks them up.

[553] She picks up two dudes.

[554] Oh, no. What?

[555] One girl alone picks up two dudes.

[556] What the f -the -f?

[557] Seventies and 80s.

[558] They're going to fucking prison.

[559] Yeah.

[560] What did they look like?

[561] I wonder that she was like, this is fine.

[562] Yeah.

[563] I don't know.

[564] Was one really short or something?

[565] Listen, short guys are strong.

[566] Don't pick up anyone.

[567] And they're mad.

[568] And they're angry.

[569] Yeah.

[570] So we're going to get a lot of hate mail for this.

[571] No, no, it's fine.

[572] I'm short.

[573] It's fine.

[574] Okay.

[575] So she drops one of them off at the bar, this one dude.

[576] And then, of course, she has never seen again.

[577] Then the guy who she dropped off, like finds out this girl's missing.

[578] And he's like, wait a second.

[579] She dropped me off.

[580] And then the guy I was with who I barely knew said, I'm going to, can you take me to my car actually?

[581] And the guy was like, I didn't think he had a car.

[582] So I thought that was strange.

[583] So they start.

[584] looking, his name is Roy.

[585] Sorry, the guy that got dropped off of the bar is the one that says that.

[586] Yeah, he's like, I didn't think Roy, is his name, had a car.

[587] Okay.

[588] And he's like, yo, why did you let her leave with him?

[589] Fuck.

[590] You know, like right there.

[591] You could have fucking fixed it.

[592] Roy Mielsen, me, Melonson, Melonson.

[593] Should have looked that up before.

[594] Roy Melanson, he's a drifter and a convicted rapist.

[595] So, but he got out after very short time.

[596] Sure.

[597] Why keep him in?

[598] But, yeah, this time now he knows to kill the person so they can't ID him.

[599] You know, it's like, that's how you do that.

[600] That's how you progress.

[601] I'm having a panic attack.

[602] He's found with her driver's license, camping equipment, car keys, and pawn tickets for her camera.

[603] And this is one of my favorite parts of why it stuck with me. And I can't fucking find this online now.

[604] Some reason it's not up there anymore.

[605] They find the camera at the pawn shop.

[606] They develop the film.

[607] It's all her photos in the Rocky Mountains.

[608] the very last photo is Roy sitting on a bed behind him laying down as a naked woman and it's not her so he has her camera you know it's like that's the proof yeah she's missing and you robbed her and you took a photo of yourself you fucking idiot and I can't find that photo online I know it was in the forensic files or whatever I totally remember this episode because yeah because it's so freaky so freaky but and this guy never got caught No. Okay.

[609] Here's my other favorite part about this.

[610] Okay.

[611] Well, it's an awful story.

[612] Okay.

[613] Five weeks later, Michelle's mom just kills herself because she can't even do it.

[614] It's like, my daughter didn't come back.

[615] I know she's dead.

[616] Kills herself.

[617] And then in 79, so what is that, five, six years later, five years later, this is the other part that's really fucked up and it stuck with me. They find just a scalp with two brown -haired braids on it, like a scalp only.

[618] Some hiker found it near where she had picked up the hitchhikers.

[619] So just a fucking scalp.

[620] I'm going to keep saying because it's fucking off.

[621] Just picture it.

[622] Do you think it was like sitting on a log or hanging from a branch?

[623] They showed it.

[624] There's a photo which I, they're hanging from a branch.

[625] Sorry.

[626] Well, you've got to think like he didn't, he definitely didn't scalp her probably.

[627] This is animal work.

[628] Oh, you think so?

[629] well, I guess if it's that clean, maybe not, but I would think so.

[630] No, I don't, I mean, I have no idea.

[631] But my first guess is, doesn't it all decompose at the same time?

[632] Like, why would the scalp still be there if nothing else is there?

[633] Well, and maybe an animal pulled it all, like was chewing at the, maybe.

[634] Everyone is, who's listening right now and freaking out at us and hates that so much?

[635] And we've just lost half our listeners.

[636] Here's the thing, though.

[637] It's like, that's kind of part of what's interesting.

[638] about serial killers is when they do things.

[639] It's those markers.

[640] Mutilation.

[641] Yeah.

[642] Not a lot of them, I don't think that's a normal, like a, I don't know, what do you think?

[643] Well, sometimes it's like a calling card of like, oh, that's the thing is he wants to keep their hair or remove their hair or I don't know, whatever.

[644] It makes me think of that, of like a scalping serial killer.

[645] There's way, I've read way too much about cutting off nipples.

[646] I just can't read about cutting off nipples anymore.

[647] I know.

[648] Your face is telling, is it I'm just picturing it.

[649] It hurts to think about it.

[650] So the thought of someone doing it, you have to be just a complete sociopath.

[651] Yeah.

[652] Clearly you're a psychopathic.

[653] Anyways.

[654] Okay.

[655] Clearly have a problem with your mother.

[656] Sorry.

[657] That's fair.

[658] That's true.

[659] That's fair.

[660] Okay.

[661] I find the scalp.

[662] But that's, but, you know, it's 1977.

[663] And so they don't have a body.

[664] So they can't press.

[665] So they put in a brown cardboard box.

[666] They put it up on the shelf.

[667] Right.

[668] In a hot room.

[669] Yeah.

[670] But like, there's like, there's no body.

[671] And so they can't press.

[672] So they put in a brown cardboard box.

[673] They put it up on the shelf.

[674] Right.

[675] Right.

[676] But like, there's like, there's no body.

[677] But.

[678] so they can't prosecute, but it's like, well, I feel like nowadays you can prosecute without a body much more easily.

[679] Yeah.

[680] And then, so 12 years goes by, nobody, this woman Kathy Young, who becomes like the sheriff in town, or I'm sure I'm saying that incorrect.

[681] She's not.

[682] I'm sure she's much higher up.

[683] She hires this company called Necro Search, which I remember thinking at the time, that's what I want to do.

[684] I want to work there for a living.

[685] Like, I just want to, I want to, like, volunteer.

[686] Yeah.

[687] I just want to follow them, like, the Grateful Dead.

[688] I want to be the receptionist at Neckro Search.

[689] I can be like, Neckro Search, can help you.

[690] What's your, what's your emergency?

[691] It's going crossbones.

[692] But they, like, they have uncovered.

[693] What they do is they find, and they're really good at uncovering clandestine grave sites.

[694] So it's like, you badass motherfuckers.

[695] How?

[696] How?

[697] Do they have like a...

[698] They have like a farm.

[699] They have a farm where they like bury pigs, dead pigs and kind of understand the soil changes and like what, you know, what doesn't look right out in the nature?

[700] What is manmade?

[701] What is placed there?

[702] These sorts of things.

[703] And like what is the decomposition of this pile of soil or dirt or like, you know, these kinds of things?

[704] What has been dug up in the past 10 years even?

[705] different from the soil next to it.

[706] Do animals scalp people and keep the braids for themselves.

[707] Exactly.

[708] Stuff like that.

[709] Well, here's what happened is they took her braids and did some forensic analysis on them and found the leaves of a tree that was in a certain area of those mountains.

[710] So they went there.

[711] They spread out that area where the trees are day to fucking find her bones.

[712] What was left?

[713] of them.

[714] Wow.

[715] I know.

[716] These guys, they've uncovered over 200 and, or they've, they've taken on over 235 cases.

[717] I don't know how many they've found, but these are the good guys.

[718] Necro search.

[719] I love that.

[720] I know.

[721] I bet at a party we would corner these people and I bet they get kicked out of parties a lot, though.

[722] Oh my God.

[723] Yeah.

[724] I would never leave a necro searcher alone.

[725] No, can we get, can we have a request if anyone knows a necro searcher to, I think they're in San Francisco to please have them be on the podcast.

[726] I just think that's insanely fascinating.

[727] It's almost like having x -ray vision.

[728] Like you can look at a forest or a like what, you know, a ditch and know what's wrong and what, you know, what's off.

[729] Well, the woman who found the bones was like they were all, they were all searching for two days.

[730] She goes off the trail to take a piss in the woods, which she doesn't be allowed if you're looking for us.

[731] Hey, she's still human.

[732] Yeah.

[733] And she looks and And there's a ray of light flashing on a gold tooth.

[734] She finds the skull.

[735] Oh, that's the, that's the Lord's work.

[736] Yeah.

[737] And it was, sorry, this is where my Christian part comes in.

[738] This is it?

[739] I know, not before she dies.

[740] And she, when he, no, no, no, it doesn't belong there.

[741] Well, it's at the bottom of a ravine.

[742] So, like, someone straight tossed a person over.

[743] Like, didn't even, didn't even bury her.

[744] Just threw her in.

[745] Tossed her over.

[746] So, they.

[747] I take Roy Mielenson to trial.

[748] He is found guilty in 93.

[749] So she gets killed in 74, found guilty in 93.

[750] Since then, and I didn't know this until I started looking up to it, he's been convicted for another murder, which happened 50 days before Michelle's murder.

[751] In Napa, in 1974.

[752] Yeah.

[753] A woman who was stabbed to death at a bar she owned.

[754] And they found a cigarette butt that had his DNA.

[755] on it, put it through the fucking codest, the most amazing thing in the world found a DNA match.

[756] Another woman in Louisiana who fucking, ugh, it's gruesome.

[757] So he's done it multiple times.

[758] Yeah, at least twice that they know of through DNA.

[759] But they're not taking the third one to trial because it's too expensive to do all these things for it, which sucks for that family.

[760] Yes.

[761] You know.

[762] But they know it's him?

[763] Yeah, this Now they know it's him.

[764] But he's going to go to jail anyway, so their rationale is he's there.

[765] Right, which is why Napa took him to trial is because he can be eligible for parole, which I think is fucking hilarious for Michelle's murder in like the next 10 years, eligible for parole.

[766] So they convicted him to make sure that if that ever happens.

[767] Oh, that's good.

[768] He has to be extradited to California.

[769] Yeah, it's very strange the way the laws still work like that, where it's just kind of like, Oh, and then we let him out again.

[770] Right.

[771] And then, but you know what?

[772] He was real good inside.

[773] So we let him out again.

[774] We're like, well, at the trial, like one of this jurors sneezed wrong.

[775] So he's out.

[776] Yeah.

[777] And we don't have enough money to try him again and we think we're going to lose.

[778] And we'll probably won't warn anybody just to keep it interesting.

[779] Nope.

[780] The good thing about all of this is that hitchhiking pretty much doesn't exist anymore.

[781] Thank God.

[782] We've talked about this before.

[783] Like, I don't even understand, like, I know it's like an innocent time and shit.

[784] But, like, I don't think that's common sense any time in your life, like in any point in history.

[785] No. I mean, think of like, if you were at a party with your friend's friends, you probably wouldn't want to be in a car with any of those people.

[786] Yeah.

[787] And those are like cold.

[788] So imagine if it's just anybody driving down the street.

[789] Have you ever hitchhiked?

[790] Is that negative of me?

[791] No. No. You don't want to be a party with your friends?

[792] No, I've never hitchhiked.

[793] I've never done anything like that.

[794] I think I have when I was a kid, but like with a friend, and I think the person like, and it was like an Irvine where it's just like the safest place in there.

[795] But it was idiotic.

[796] And I think the person who picked us up, like, yelled at us.

[797] I did pick up to girls who were in junior high.

[798] We were driving home, we were driving up to Petaluma from L .A., me and my ex, and we stopped at a gas station.

[799] And there were two little girls that couldn't have been more than 14 years old sitting at this gas station.

[800] It was two in the morning.

[801] And they were trying to make phone calls.

[802] The whole time we were getting gas, I was watching them.

[803] And they were trying to make phone calls and they were doing this stuff.

[804] Two in the morning.

[805] And I was watching them.

[806] And the guy that worked there wasn't, seemed a little creepy.

[807] Yeah.

[808] And he was kind of like coming out and looking at them and going back in and people would pull in.

[809] And I was just the whole time staring at them.

[810] And finally, when we went to leave, I was like, drive over there.

[811] And we pulled up and I was like, do you guys need a ride home?

[812] And they were like, yep.

[813] And immediately got in the car.

[814] And I was like, first of all, never get into a car with people.

[815] And then secondly, did you go to Luce Sutton Grammar School?

[816] And they both went to my sister's grammar school.

[817] And I got names.

[818] And they kind of smelled.

[819] It was like, clearly they were from the bad side of town.

[820] And they got like, they probably snuck out.

[821] Right.

[822] And then got stuck somewhere and then ended up at this gas station out by the freeway where I was like.

[823] And it's not walkable.

[824] No. It was, it was, it's like five miles away from any neighborhood.

[825] And it's all farmland and shit.

[826] Yeah.

[827] So we dropped them off.

[828] And I was like, don't ever do this again.

[829] And they were like, ha -ha, and bring them in.

[830] And they will.

[831] Where are they now?

[832] I wonder if they remember you.

[833] No, they both own that gas station.

[834] Because of my setting them on their way correctly.

[835] Good job.

[836] Thank you.

[837] Well, I just want to take a second to brag about something good I did for the community.

[838] Do you mind?

[839] No, I love it.

[840] Thank you.

[841] What if they went home and killed their mom?

[842] Can I turn this into a bummer real quick?

[843] They were the ones that were all along.

[844] Yep.

[845] That's a good twisteroo.

[846] That's write a book.

[847] They went home and killed their mom.

[848] Oh, I'm dead inside.

[849] I want to read one of our...

[850] So at the end of the show, we like to do your favorite or your town...

[851] No, we do your town murder.

[852] Yeah.

[853] So either we'll have a guest tell us a story or we're asking you guys to send us your stories.

[854] Should we start my favorite...

[855] murder gmail i probably should sure let's do it my favorite murder gmail and then there's also um there's also a facebook group group so you can start facebook page we call it facebook page group page i don't know what i said last time you just called it plain old facebook page and it made me laugh really hard we have facebook page we have facebook page uh called my favorite murder and you can tell your story on the front page on the front like tell everyone your shit and like you guys should like bond over it and stuff.

[856] I feel like I should also start a Twitter account.

[857] Maybe this is business that you guys want to hear about, but I should because it seems like that's also a good way for people.

[858] You're really good at that and it stresses me out to start from zero, like from zero followers.

[859] I'm really good at starting Twitter account.

[860] No, you're good at Twitter.

[861] Oh, thanks.

[862] It's my passion.

[863] I'm really that.

[864] I started like a year ago because I hated it and I hate it now because I. It's a difficult exercise.

[865] Yeah.

[866] It's just, can you handle putting things out there and wanting something in return and not getting it?

[867] No. Well, or can you?

[868] Because you do it.

[869] And then you get stuff.

[870] It's true.

[871] I do get stuff out of it.

[872] Okay.

[873] Okay.

[874] Yeah, start one.

[875] Let's do that.

[876] Okay.

[877] By this point that people are listening, it's going to be up anyways.

[878] Okay.

[879] We, I've made a whole file.

[880] Should we, let's see.

[881] All right.

[882] I'm just going to close my eyes and scroll and pick one.

[883] Great.

[884] And if it sucks, then we'll delete it and start over.

[885] Okay.

[886] Okay.

[887] All right.

[888] This is from Todd Deck.

[889] Todd.

[890] You ready for this?

[891] Thanks, Todd.

[892] It starts the girl in the box.

[893] Hell yeah.

[894] Hello.

[895] Thank you both for sharing your love of true crime.

[896] Truth be told of I always enjoyed the genre and never really got the opportunity to chat about it with people.

[897] Blabty, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[898] It's now time for my true crime story.

[899] I am a new public librarian in a rural town.

[900] Already sounds awesome.

[901] Thank you.

[902] Dude.

[903] Thank you for your service.

[904] When I first heard it on the job, my first reference question was, where is the girl in the box?

[905] And my initial thought was, what the fuck?

[906] After some amateur sleuthing, I quickly learned that this patron was asking for a book called Perfect Victim.

[907] It's a true crime story detailing the story of a young female hitch.

[908] We fucking talked about this before on the podcast.

[909] This guy did not.

[910] Oh, no. Has it gone up yet, that one?

[911] Yeah.

[912] Well, we didn't.

[913] It wasn't one of our favorite murders.

[914] So it was a sidebar story.

[915] Okay.

[916] So I'm not going to get that.

[917] him.

[918] Okay, well, maybe you don't know what he knows about it.

[919] Is he just talking about the story itself, or does he have some personal connection?

[920] I think it happened in a small town he lives in.

[921] Oh, oh, yeah.

[922] Let's do another one.

[923] Okay.

[924] But Todd, thanks, because we love that story, too.

[925] Thanks, Todd.

[926] No, I really appreciate it.

[927] We, uh, you know, it's a, that's one of the earlier ones that I ever heard about.

[928] And I just couldn't picture, I remember being like 12 or 13 in hearing that story.

[929] And I couldn't picture what it meant.

[930] Like, yeah.

[931] How do you keep a person?

[932] in a box under your bed.

[933] Yeah.

[934] How did, how?

[935] Well, I had one of those IKEA bed that had drawers underneath it, so I totally get it.

[936] You got it.

[937] But they also put a box in her head.

[938] That was when they trapped her.

[939] Right.

[940] That's when they first had her in the car.

[941] They're all about boxes in that family.

[942] Weirdos.

[943] Very weird.

[944] Not that they also tortured a woman, but.

[945] Yeah.

[946] And with the boxes, man. All right.

[947] There was one that had something about John Walsh.

[948] So I really want to read that one to you.

[949] Oh, yes, because of my.

[950] series that I've been reading.

[951] Oh, my favorite murder, Adam Walsh case.

[952] Here we go.

[953] Oh, yeah.

[954] This is from E. Allen.

[955] It's very fucking long.

[956] Ethan Allen, the furniture maker?

[957] Ethan Allen.

[958] Hello, Georgia.

[959] Big fan.

[960] What a great podcast.

[961] My info relates to the Adam Walsh, who was abducted in 81 from a mall in Hollywood, Florida.

[962] In 1978, my dad had this great idea to move our family to Florida to get away from the brutal cold of Western Pennsylvania.

[963] His growing paranoia and black ice phobias that killed my social life.

[964] Oh, I thought he was going to say killed my...

[965] We're not allowed to leave the house.

[966] Can I skip over shit?

[967] Does that do?

[968] I think so.

[969] Okay.

[970] By 1980, I found my first job at the Hollywood Mall, uh -oh, in Woolworths working at the snack bar, free pretzels and ice cream.

[971] But sadly, the icing machine was always on the fritz.

[972] The mall was close enough to our house that I could ride my bike to it in about 15 minutes.

[973] And remember that it was an indoor mall with a lot of tropical plants, pastel colors, herds of seniors, and totally 80s vibe.

[974] The location of Adam Walsh's abduction was the Sears Department Store at the Hollywood Mall.

[975] Now, I wasn't working July 27, 1981, the day when six -year -old Adam was abducted.

[976] But the news coverage was non -stop beginning that evening.

[977] From what I remember, Adam's dad, John Walsh, was the police top suspect to begin with.

[978] There was lots of silent and not silent judgments from neighbors and community people being, about him and his wife, Reeve.

[979] By the way, they're still married with new replacement kids, he says.

[980] Oh, no. Jesus.

[981] That's the joke we made, though, right?

[982] Yeah.

[983] We made that about Jeanvenet.

[984] I think we opened the door on that, yeah.

[985] Right.

[986] Have some replacement kits.

[987] Oh, my, yeah.

[988] Oh, right.

[989] Don't have one.

[990] Sounds pretty harsh, though, when you read it back.

[991] Yeah.

[992] Okay, so here's the freaky part, he says.

[993] My mom worked locally and came home for lunch that day on her way back to work that afternoon when she had to drive right by the mall.

[994] She remembers being tailgated towards the freeway.

[995] The person eventually pulled around her to get by.

[996] It was to the point of her getting a good look at the vehicle.

[997] thinking the person was really in a big hurry.

[998] When the news of Adam's disappearance was on every local TV station, the police begged anyone with info to call.

[999] A tip reported by a witness that they saw Adam being pushed into a blue van by a blonde man when he was abducted.

[1000] When we heard the info about the blue van on news, my mom started screaming that the blue van had been tailgating her that day.

[1001] I can remember how crazy and gross and creepy it felt.

[1002] She ended up calling the police and giving them the information.

[1003] It's like a month later, they find Adam's head in a canal chopped off with a machete and another part of Florida somewhere.

[1004] A deviant felon, Otis Tool, too.

[1005] Have you fucking read about this motherfuckercker?

[1006] He's the guy that was him and Gary.

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] No, I was going to say Gary Ridgeway, but that's...

[1009] No, yeah, him and...

[1010] Him and the class, the guy that just murdered everybody and fucked everybody.

[1011] Yeah, we...

[1012] Someone's yelling at home.

[1013] We need a third person to be the person to tell us.

[1014] His name is, hold on.

[1015] I just saw it today.

[1016] He had a glass eye.

[1017] Hold on.

[1018] I just listened to the last podcast.

[1019] the left on the left did an episode of a really good one let me find it oh my god it's so irritating i know i know it's um but i also have a sidebar theory on this if this person doesn't talk about it okay i want to hear this hold on because odis is the one that says he did it you think the other guy did it or otis because he has two t's right henry lee lucas yes right yes yeah okay henry lee lucas another Sir, okay.

[1020] Tool says he drove around with Adam's head in his car for a few days before disposing of it.

[1021] Tool confesses to killing Adam, but he told the police he snatched him in his car, which was an old Cadillac.

[1022] Let's see here.

[1023] He totally checks every box in the know -your -s serial killer study.

[1024] He then recanted his confession, but in 96, while dying in prison again, admitted to killing Adam.

[1025] However, there's no actual evidence still linked Toll to Adam.

[1026] So what about the blue van?

[1027] Is this what you're going to say?

[1028] Yes, go ahead.

[1029] He says, so what was a blue van?

[1030] In 2007, there was another investigation and witnesses linking Jeffrey Dahmer to Adam Walsh's disappearance.

[1031] Is this what you're going to say?

[1032] He was in Florida at the time and drove a blue van for work.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] If he read that info on, he read info on Dahmer.

[1035] He didn't cut off victims' heads.

[1036] He did cut off victims heads.

[1037] Often boys, but none as young as Adam.

[1038] But Dahmer denied killing Adam.

[1039] Is Dahmer still alive?

[1040] No. They killed him in Joe.

[1041] Good.

[1042] The police and John Walsh believed that Toll was the killer of Adam.

[1043] Police close.

[1044] is the case.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] Here's another thing.

[1047] If he, is that done?

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] Because, wait, no, he says, Karen, you were hilarious on Twitter and I loved your mark there on an interview.

[1050] Oh, thanks.

[1051] This was Ethan Allen.

[1052] E. Allen.

[1053] Yeah, E. Allen.

[1054] And then he says, wait, Georgia, I don't really know your work.

[1055] I thought of the podcast.

[1056] I think you're cool.

[1057] Thanks, E. Thanks, E. Um, so I was reading all those, like, the Jeffrey Dahmer thing came out of the blue.

[1058] I was like, what?

[1059] which is kind of amazing.

[1060] But it didn't seem like that was his, he's not a kid.

[1061] Yeah, but cutting off the head and driving a blue van are so much closer than just to some guy being like, yeah, I totally did.

[1062] Yeah, absolutely.

[1063] And blonde and like young and blonde and they had a really clear description.

[1064] But here's the thing.

[1065] Adam Walsh, both of his front teeth were missing the day that he was there at the mall.

[1066] He's there, his picture, I think he says baseball picture, that they used of like, like, have you seen this boy, had only been taken, like, a week or two before, and he has no front teeth.

[1067] And the head that they found in the canal had one front two.

[1068] So there's...

[1069] My whole body is shivering.

[1070] A whole theory that the boy in the canal was not at a moment.

[1071] I'm like literally going to start crying right now.

[1072] Oh, no. Is it too...

[1073] That is the most...

[1074] Life is so crazy.

[1075] It's so crazy.

[1076] And like, the answers we're being given aren't necessarily the truth.

[1077] No, they're just used to placate us or the bad part of me telling you that is that in learning it and I was just this was me because I was home at my family so I spent tons of time just staring at my phone like in my room and I clicked on one too many links because I'm very good at avoiding upsetting things.

[1078] I never like you know never listen to 911 calls.

[1079] I try not to look at too many pictures but I clicked on this thing and they had the picture of the retrieved.

[1080] No they did not.

[1081] Decapitated head that they found in the canal.

[1082] Why is that public?

[1083] It's like a, you can tell it's a crime scene photo black and white.

[1084] I took a photo of it.

[1085] But I wish I hadn't seen it.

[1086] Did you see the tooth?

[1087] Yep.

[1088] Did it look like Adam?

[1089] I don't, I mean, you can only see part of the fit.

[1090] Here's the thing.

[1091] I truly only looked at it for like four seconds because you know the, you know how in a movie when there's a dick -capitated head and they look like they're kind of melting.

[1092] You said dick -capitated, by the way.

[1093] Dick capitated.

[1094] You've said it twice.

[1095] I thought it was just an accident, but then you just, I don't think I normally say this.

[1096] What if that's what you do?

[1097] I always try to get a little sexual with stuff like this.

[1098] I think it's appropriate.

[1099] Just to remind everybody to stay sexy.

[1100] And just like not to get too fucked up.

[1101] Yeah, don't get.

[1102] Don't remember Dicks.

[1103] Jesus.

[1104] It's such an upsetting looking picture that I only looked at first.

[1105] But there's one big like child's grown in front tooth absolutely in the front.

[1106] So there's no way.

[1107] in 12 days, that boy grew that tooth in.

[1108] And one of the most upsetting things I read when I was reading that story is he was standing at the, at like a PlayStation or an Atari stand in Sears with his mom.

[1109] And his mom went away to go get something.

[1110] And he was, he was 20 feet away, if not less.

[1111] And she just went to go over here to like return something.

[1112] And then there was a fight.

[1113] The kids started fighting about the video game.

[1114] and a security guard came and kicked them all out, pushed them out of the Sears, made them all leave.

[1115] So a six -year -old is standing out on the sidewalk alone, kicked out of the Sears and like too shy to go back inside or be like, no, my mom's in there.

[1116] I have to be in there.

[1117] He just goes where they tell him to go and he basically is standing out on the street alone.

[1118] I'm going to throw up.

[1119] Sorry.

[1120] No, it's incredible.

[1121] Like that to me is like, this is what it felt like to be in the 80s.

[1122] Like you just always felt like you were about to be fucking.

[1123] snatched off the goddamn street.

[1124] So this story specifically.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] People didn't know to tell their kids like if like a security guard is not a cop and you can tell an adult, no, my mom's over there.

[1127] You can do things.

[1128] But he was so little.

[1129] How old was he?

[1130] Six.

[1131] Oh, he's a baby.

[1132] He's a baby.

[1133] Oh, people are awful.

[1134] Super gross.

[1135] Why is life?

[1136] So.

[1137] But that was like that was a good one.

[1138] His mom potentially could be supportive.

[1139] the Dahmer theory of the Adam Walsh case.

[1140] Yeah, I wonder.

[1141] I mean, I wonder why John is sticking Toole.

[1142] O'Toole.

[1143] Tool?

[1144] Oh, tool.

[1145] Oh, tool.

[1146] Yeah.

[1147] I wonder why he like, he doesn't want to change it.

[1148] He'd probably.

[1149] They want us to be over.

[1150] He's got to be intense, right?

[1151] John Woll.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] Oh, do you mean like at dinner?

[1154] Yeah.

[1155] Yeah.

[1156] Like nobody wants to talk to him at a party.

[1157] No, I don't think.

[1158] How's your, how are you?

[1159] I honestly feel like the a couple times I've let my mind slightly wander into the possibility of that.

[1160] I'm like, I would just be on pills.

[1161] From the day it happened until the day I died.

[1162] Why would you ever?

[1163] Well, like this, like fucking Michelle's mom.

[1164] Just bye.

[1165] Check out.

[1166] Yep, can't.

[1167] I can't.

[1168] So much.

[1169] Fuck.

[1170] Please don't kill us, everyone.

[1171] How do we end this on a positive note?

[1172] Please don't kill us.

[1173] Everyone is as positive as one could get.

[1174] This gets.

[1175] By the way, this is a comedy podcast, right?

[1176] Like technically?

[1177] That's what they say.

[1178] I mean, it's more like a slumber party where things happen that are great and then things happen against your will.

[1179] And that's just junior high.

[1180] Too bad.

[1181] It's fucking life, man. That's too bad.

[1182] So is that counting as our hometown?

[1183] Yeah, unless you have one that you want to.

[1184] Well, I have my friend Audrey's from when I went home.

[1185] Oh my God, yes.

[1186] It's just that I recorded it at my niece's ninth birthday party.

[1187] So, that's so sick.

[1188] Yeah, we were in the other room.

[1189] We were far away from any child.

[1190] I just love that at a party.

[1191] He was mostly adults.

[1192] Yeah, let's go near the room.

[1193] And this is my friend Audrey, who I've been friends with since sixth grade.

[1194] Okay, I love it.

[1195] And it's about my hometown, too.

[1196] Equally exciting.

[1197] Okay, let me make this work.

[1198] All right.

[1199] So my favorite story, it's not really a murder, but it's something that happens here in Petaluma.

[1200] It was like 2003.

[1201] and the guy was known as the pedalinger prowler, a .k -a -to -the -local tickler.

[1202] So this guy put his sweatshirt, whole thing, you know, creeper in the summertime, would go around to a certain section of town and look for open doors and windows and he would sneak in at night and he would rope women or couples or whatever, tickle their feet.

[1203] And they would scream and then he would run away.

[1204] So it kept happening weekend night after a week and night, like Friday, Saturday, maybe he'd take a Saturday off, do a Sunday.

[1205] So everyone was getting so freaked out.

[1206] They had community center meetings about it.

[1207] When are we going to catch this guy?

[1208] So one night, my friend and I coming home from the bars were driving down her street and we see that there's this whole police line kind of coordinating off the area.

[1209] So we know that something big is going on.

[1210] And so we go, and we talk to the off of what's going on?

[1211] And he said, oh, I can't really tell you, but, you know, make sure you lock your door when you go inside.

[1212] So we thought for sure we were going to see him bust out of the bushes in any second.

[1213] They never caught him, but they think they knew who it was.

[1214] And they sent him off, like, shipped him out of town to Sacramento.

[1215] So it was the greatest thing that ever happened.

[1216] It was very exciting and terrifying at the same time because, you know, tonight could have been the night that he decided to murder somebody.

[1217] You don't know.

[1218] He had to keep doing it.

[1219] That's a great story.

[1220] I love that they just ran him out of town, like, Wild West style instead of...

[1221] It's like Sacramento's problem now.

[1222] Yep.

[1223] Go up there.

[1224] Gosh, that's...

[1225] I wonder, yeah, that's a good story.

[1226] Like, you wake up because someone's tickling your feet.

[1227] What the fuck?

[1228] You know what?

[1229] Here's the thing, though.

[1230] Don't hitchhike, as we've said.

[1231] But don't leave your windows and doors open at night.

[1232] I don't care how hot it is.

[1233] Yeah.

[1234] Sweat your fucking balls off.

[1235] Or move upstairs.

[1236] Literally, I would never live on the ground floor because of...

[1237] Because I have a terrified anxiety -filled human being.

[1238] I mean, it makes sense.

[1239] But also, there's...

[1240] It's like that thing.

[1241] people getting in, people wanting to get into your house.

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] They'll do it if they want to do it.

[1244] When I walk by, this is awful.

[1245] I shouldn't admit this.

[1246] When I walk by a house, I'm like, I could get into that house.

[1247] Like, I'm just like, this is what's wrong with this person?

[1248] I want to get into their house to be like, look it.

[1249] I'm in here.

[1250] Should I be in here?

[1251] No. No. Should you be?

[1252] And you live on a busy street and I snuck right in.

[1253] I had that feeling in New York all the time, but it's almost like the opposite where you can look into people's like apartment windows in the front.

[1254] But it almost feels like, because it's so common, it's not as inviting because it just happens all the time.

[1255] People are used to being able to see right into someone's life.

[1256] Yeah.

[1257] Don't do that.

[1258] Well, tickling is a much funnier thing to end on that a toothless stick capitating.

[1259] I mean, it's slightly up.

[1260] I think he was a little molestier than, you know, the tick.

[1261] The petal of a tickler is kind of a fun.

[1262] It's like the hand burglar where it's like, yeah, actually it was.

[1263] Did you say the hamburgler?

[1264] Yeah.

[1265] But I messed it up.

[1266] I love it.

[1267] I tried to put the word dick in there.

[1268] I was laughing over.

[1269] I'm decapitated.

[1270] Send us to my favorite murder.

[1271] Send us your hometown stories.

[1272] We fucking love them.

[1273] It doesn't have to be a murder even like crazy crimes.

[1274] Shit that happened.

[1275] Crime, something creepy, like a Cropsy story.

[1276] Fucked up.

[1277] Oh, and people who live near the woods, sort of creepy woods things.

[1278] And then go to iTunes and review us and subscribe and do those things that help us.

[1279] Please rate, review, subscribe.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] Please do that because, like, you know, two women hosting a podcast.

[1282] Let's please.

[1283] Let's beat the men.

[1284] I'm making this feminist out of nowhere.

[1285] Are you going to be like, you didn't believe in us, like two women hosting a podcast?

[1286] This thing's bullshit.

[1287] No, I mean, like, don't you guys want us to do well?

[1288] Because we're two women and we're like.

[1289] Yeah, Hillary, do you hear us?

[1290] Yeah, I'm making this feminist immediately.

[1291] Don't get women.

[1292] It really is ultimately.

[1293] Yeah.

[1294] It's a feminist movement.

[1295] It is.

[1296] I'm talking about murder.

[1297] We're feminist.

[1298] Is that all anything else?

[1299] Yeah, no. Any final thoughts?

[1300] Don't murder us.

[1301] This really seems like a concern of yours.

[1302] I was just thinking like, I don't want to talk about it because I'm just going to convince someone to kill me by telling them why I think it's possible.

[1303] Like, they should do it.

[1304] I have to say I feel ready.

[1305] I've been prepared for so long.

[1306] That was Karen, by the way.

[1307] So I want everyone who know that was Karen who said that.

[1308] Oh, my God.

[1309] I'm going to prepare my speech for what it happens, like, to the news.

[1310] Like, I just didn't, we didn't know.

[1311] Here's your speech.

[1312] She asked for it.

[1313] Straight up, intentionally recorded it, set it into a marketplace.

[1314] Oh.

[1315] All right.

[1316] Thanks for listening, guys.