Robin Thicke

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepardam, joined by Major Mouse.

[2] Major Mouse.

[3] Yeah, how you doing, Major Mouse?

[4] Welcome home, Major Mouse.

[5] I'm home.

[6] I missed home.

[7] We missed you terribly.

[8] It was bullshit.

[9] It was really nice to be home.

[10] I felt guilty about leaving my parents this morning.

[11] Oh, you did?

[12] So good.

[13] You felt guilty for being away from us and then guilty.

[14] Yeah.

[15] That's the dream.

[16] It's a lose -lose.

[17] That's the goal.

[18] I've got to tell you something.

[19] I've loved Robin Thick's music.

[20] Big time.

[21] Yeah.

[22] But I also think I had an opinion of him, and I don't know what it was really based on, but I found him to be incredibly humble and honest.

[23] Yeah.

[24] And I really enjoyed this.

[25] I did too.

[26] And I thought the exact same thing.

[27] I kind of had some preconceived notions that were not right.

[28] Previously conceived notions.

[29] And I'm really glad we got to talk to him, and those were shattered.

[30] Yes, yes.

[31] And of course, Robin Thick is a singer, a songwriter, record producer, dancer, musician, and an actor.

[32] He has collaborated with numerous artists such as Nick Minaj, Christina Aguilera, Pharrell, Usher, Jennifer Hudson, Brandy, Mary J. Blydez, and more.

[33] He's also on Masked Singer.

[34] That's right.

[35] Yeah.

[36] But most importantly, he's here because he has a new album out called On Earth and in Heaven.

[37] So please enjoy Robin Thick.

[38] Wonderie Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free.

[39] right now.

[40] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[41] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[42] Oh, there we go.

[43] I'm glad you're going without buds and going proper cans.

[44] Well, you know, I'm in my studio, so this works out.

[45] Yeah.

[46] You might be shocked, though.

[47] Some of the musicians we interview and they've got the shittiest setup imaginable for this.

[48] That happens.

[49] That happens.

[50] Where are you at?

[51] Are you in L .A.?

[52] I'm at home.

[53] I'm in Malibu at our rental.

[54] We lost our house in the fires, so we're still renting and rebuilding.

[55] I read that.

[56] Yeah, so awful.

[57] Were you, like, away at a hotel?

[58] No, no. We were there that morning.

[59] You know, my son was getting ready for school, and my lady was keeping track of it through the night.

[60] And in the morning, the smoke was so bad.

[61] In the I was like, we're not going to school.

[62] We're going to go to your parents' house or something.

[63] So we started packing anyway.

[64] About an hour later, we were told that it was a mandatory evacuation.

[65] So that's when we started to pack everything we could fit into two cars.

[66] Oh my gosh.

[67] I had a false alarm once where my neighborhood was evacuated.

[68] Yeah, it's a weird question to ask yourself.

[69] Like, what am I going to take out of here?

[70] Well, I was lucky because my father, having passed away, I had gathered a many of his photo albums.

[71] So it was on my mind.

[72] And so I made sure I got my computer, which has all my music.

[73] Right.

[74] Packed the computer, packed a few guitars, got my dad's photo albums.

[75] I told my son, I was like, back up as much stuff as you can.

[76] He got like a pair of underwear.

[77] His favorite pair.

[78] He's a minimalist.

[79] Yeah.

[80] He was like a weekend getaway is what he planned for.

[81] But no, but, you know, it was tragic.

[82] in its forms.

[83] As you were driving away, did you had a sense like it was going to happen, or what would you have given the odds at that point?

[84] At that point, I was still 80, 20, that it wasn't going to happen.

[85] I mean, I'm an optimist by nature.

[86] So I just believe, no, this can't be happening.

[87] It's not going to come all the way over here to us, you know.

[88] But when we saw from the satellite image, it was literally a beeline.

[89] From where it started, the wind just took it straight to our neighborhood and crushed our neighborhood.

[90] Oh, how long had you lived there?

[91] We had lived there three years, you know, but I mean, we had just had our daughter, Mia.

[92] I had moved from the Hollywood Hills with a third of an acre with a great view, you know, The Bachelor Pad, and I moved out to an acre and a half in Malibu overlooking the ocean.

[93] So it was like, this is our dream family home.

[94] Yeah.

[95] But, you know, luckily, the property is in good shape and we're just broke ground finally after years of planning.

[96] We just broke ground.

[97] And so there's a new positive, hopeful energy that we'll have a home again someday.

[98] And I'm sure people listening in like the Midwest are going, why would you rebuild there?

[99] Like there's a fire every half hour in Malibu.

[100] It is a rather questionable judgment.

[101] But I guess just like anything, when you have the memories that we started there, and my fiance and I fell in love there.

[102] It was our home.

[103] It was our home.

[104] And it's just great for kids.

[105] Like it's just a beautiful property for kids.

[106] So we're going to rebuild and build fire safety codes and just hope for the best, man. I'm two years older than you.

[107] So we're roughly in all the same stuff.

[108] But I don't know.

[109] Do you remember when Madonna and Sean Penn's house burnt down?

[110] Roughly.

[111] And then he just put an air stream on the property and just lived in an airstream going forward.

[112] Whoa.

[113] Way to pivot.

[114] Very Penn. That would be.

[115] great and we would save a lot of money but it's I have four kids that's just not we don't think you can do it in a airstream not by choice was there anything you wish you had taken that you didn't the irony of it was that we have a carport sitting out where we put our cars under carport was untouched I could have put every everything everything in the house I could have put under the carport and it would have survived But no, the one thing that obviously I missed was my piano.

[116] I had had this piano for 20 years.

[117] I'd written all of my songs on that piano, so that hurt.

[118] Yeah, did you have like a superstitious panic?

[119] Like, oh, I will never create again because I don't have that.

[120] Oh, no, I need the money, so I have to create it.

[121] You don't have the luxury to not create?

[122] No, there's no luxury to pout.

[123] That's pretty good.

[124] I think when we meet people out here that are from L .A., It's always interesting to us because we obviously looked at it from the outside, Monica and Atlanta and me in Detroit, and it was such a mythical kind of place.

[125] And then so to have grown up here, not just grown up here, but as close to you could as being a character on 90210 .1.

[126] I was on the set.

[127] Were you?

[128] Oh, yeah.

[129] I was close friends with Brian Austin Green.

[130] You guys had a hip -hop group for a minute, right?

[131] Well, for like, yeah, a month, you know, a summer.

[132] we had a hip -hop group.

[133] He was going to be a rapper.

[134] I was going to be Michael Jackson.

[135] And so we did a song together in a Growing Pains episode.

[136] And that was the end of our career together.

[137] Yeah.

[138] So obviously, most people know your dad was Alan Thick.

[139] I think you and I share a lot of things that we're going to ultimately cover.

[140] Definitely.

[141] One is I lost my dad as well.

[142] From what little I know about your dad, it sounds like they were a little bit similar in that my dad, he was a player he was 300 pounds and bald but he he had he had charm he drove a corvette and he had charm and he spent most of his waking hours dedicated to uh cohabitating with gales but uh and then they were divorced at seven i guess yes my mother and father were divorced at seven yes when i was seven who did you live with it was uh 50 50 split down the middle yep i would go luckily both my parents lived about 15 minutes away from each other and school was in between.

[143] So it was rather convenient to be able to go back and forth per week.

[144] Did you prefer to be at one or the other?

[145] Well, my dad's house, of course, was looser, and he was gone on the weekends.

[146] So once I hit 13, 14, yeah, that was the place to be.

[147] Now, is this, I've been missing this word.

[148] I want to get it right this time.

[149] Is it apocryphal that there was a hot tub in your father's bedroom?

[150] There was a hot tub in a few rooms.

[151] Oh.

[152] Wow.

[153] Oh, that's great.

[154] There was a gym.

[155] He had a gym that also had a sunken in tub with the fountain in the gym.

[156] So, Dad, you know, he was a family man in every sense, but he did have a few years there when Growing Pains was at its height.

[157] And after he got divorced, there was a window there.

[158] There's such tasty irony, who he was playing on Growing Pains.

[159] Yeah, yeah.

[160] It makes me kind of think of...

[161] Full house?

[162] Yes, exactly.

[163] Yeah, the Bob Saggett situation.

[164] The Bob Sagget of it all, yeah.

[165] But I wouldn't want to distort it.

[166] It was a period, not a lifestyle that was forever.

[167] You know, he just was handsome and charming, and he loved going out to all of the golf tournaments, tennis tournaments, every hockey game, every basketball.

[168] He just loved Hollywood and everything it had to offer.

[169] He had come from Canada, so he's like me. This place was like Land of Unicorns, probably.

[170] Yeah, it was like John Wayne, and that's what he was.

[171] wanted to be.

[172] I realized after he passed, I started watching John Wayne movies for some reason, and I realized that that's what my father was doing the whole time.

[173] Hey, how you doing, Dax?

[174] Good to see you.

[175] I'm going to head on down to the okay corral and have a little two -step.

[176] I realized my dad was just doing this version of John Wayne the whole time.

[177] Well, aren't we all doing, we're trying to do a version of somebody, and then it just goes through our filter, and it ends up being something novel and unique.

[178] Exactly.

[179] Then we find ourselves through mimicking others that we admire.

[180] Yeah, yeah.

[181] Like you're giving it your best shot to be that thing, but then you cannot help but infect it with your fingerprint, which becomes your thing.

[182] Exactly.

[183] Now, growing up around all that, I know you acted a bit in that you were on Wonder Years, which is so exciting.

[184] If I was a kid who got to be on Wonder Years.

[185] It was the best job.

[186] It gave me the feeling.

[187] What did?

[188] Wonder Years.

[189] Wonder Years?

[190] What feeling?

[191] Like very nostalgic.

[192] Uh -huh.

[193] Was that one of your favorites, Monica?

[194] Wait, I'm trying to see.

[195] I feel like you're hinting around that this was your sexual awakening.

[196] No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, it wasn't.

[197] There was something about the Wonder Years.

[198] It was a little before my time, so it would pop up, and it made me feel like kind of yucky.

[199] Oh, wow.

[200] This is exciting.

[201] This is a horrible time to bring it up since you were on it.

[202] But there was something about it that gave me a feeling that I've now named the feeling.

[203] And it's not a very good feeling.

[204] Ah.

[205] Do you think it's that it was too mature?

[206] Yes, like there was something about it that was at that time for me to earnest or something.

[207] Oh, okay.

[208] Who did you play on Wonder Years?

[209] I asked a girl to go steady in the hallway.

[210] And that made Fred Savage's character want to ask another girl to go steady.

[211] You're a catalyst.

[212] Yeah, it was the kid.

[213] catalyst.

[214] And obviously, I assume you would go see your dad on set and your mom on set.

[215] I lived on the growing pain set.

[216] Yeah.

[217] Luckily, my father lived five minutes from there.

[218] I'd come home from school, hop on my bike, ride my bike to set.

[219] And then I would ride my bike around the set.

[220] I'd ride in the old Westtown.

[221] Like, you know, the security, the security would come and, like, tell me to stop.

[222] I'd be going through past the Chevy Chase Christmas vacation house.

[223] Uh -huh.

[224] Past the karate kids' house, the Pat Marita's house was on the lot.

[225] So I did live a very interesting childhood being on those sets.

[226] Well, and the best part is, it sounds like you had the presence of mine to enjoy it.

[227] Oh, man, I was having a blast.

[228] Well, that's the thing.

[229] It's like my brother and I were a little different that way.

[230] My brother shied away from my father's success.

[231] It made him uncomfortable maybe in some way, where me, I embraced it as an opportunity to do stuff.

[232] You know you know what I mean?

[233] Yeah.

[234] Be around fun people.

[235] So when you would do these acting roles at that point where you set on becoming an actor?

[236] No, I just got some opportunities, but it wasn't my home.

[237] Music was what I wanted to do for sure.

[238] Like, from what age?

[239] From around 10, 11 years old.

[240] When I was 11, I taught myself to play piano, and I started writing my own songs.

[241] And by the time I was 16, I had a recording contract.

[242] I was placing songs as a writer and a producer.

[243] I got off and running pretty early.

[244] Yeah.

[245] And so the high school experience, what was it like, you know, having your dad be in the hit show of the day and?

[246] Well, in Hollywood, if you're at a private school, you're probably some other kids there too.

[247] So, yeah, Slice Stallone's kid is there or, you know, whatever it is.

[248] Like, or Dionne Warwick's son, I remember.

[249] was at the Campbell Hall, you know, so, yeah, it's just part of the culture in Los Angeles that you're going to end up around some of that.

[250] Sly's kid, was he jacked?

[251] He kind of was.

[252] He had the hair, he had the slick bag hair, and he was kind of, you know, he was in shape.

[253] Good, good, good.

[254] He was a cool kid.

[255] I liked him.

[256] All right, so I probably became aware of you musically from cocaine.

[257] I don't know what year that was, but.

[258] That was like the evolution album.

[259] It came out in 2006, and then it was a success in 2007.

[260] It took some time to get going.

[261] Yeah.

[262] So it was 2007 when it hit.

[263] Well, and I really loved it.

[264] But at the same time, I'm so distracted by the notion that you're Alan Thick's son.

[265] And I just wonder, like, I bet in some ways it was helpful.

[266] And then in other ways, it was probably really a bit of a burden.

[267] Yeah, because as a musician, especially you want that mystery.

[268] You know, you want to come from nowhere and it all be about the music.

[269] You don't want my dad's smiling face hovering.

[270] above my music when it's playing, you know?

[271] And obviously I had to contend with some of those challenges.

[272] But in hindsight, you realize that it's all BS and stuff that's in your head.

[273] It really doesn't matter.

[274] It doesn't change the catalog of music you create.

[275] And you should embrace those things more than shy away from it.

[276] Yeah.

[277] Ultimately, the music does the talking, which is great, right?

[278] It is a meritocracy in that way.

[279] I just think in your business in particular, the story's so intriguing.

[280] Yeah.

[281] Especially in R &B, you know, where you come from and it being maybe hard scrabble or these different things.

[282] They add to the story.

[283] Yeah.

[284] And not only was your dad famous, but he was also playing like the squarest dad on TV.

[285] Yeah, yeah.

[286] So you're kind of like, well, how's this guy got all this rhythm?

[287] Why is he so high on the soul spectrum?

[288] And his dad's like the whitest guy ever to live.

[289] But you know what's what's funny about that, if you go through my DNA, I come from.

[290] six generations of musicians of jazz trumpet players.

[291] My mother is a soul pop singer.

[292] So we've been trying to make black music for six generations.

[293] Yeah, yeah.

[294] I read, I thought, was funny about you, as you early on worked with Brian McKnight.

[295] And they called you Brian McWhite.

[296] Yeah.

[297] There was something that just for me, you know, soul music, soul singers, gospel, take six.

[298] That just touched me. And I wanted to sing like them.

[299] Do you know what I mean?

[300] I wanted to sing with that kind of passion, with that kind of feeling, with that kind of soul.

[301] And so it was really the singers that I just fell in love with it I wanted to be like them.

[302] This has nothing to do with anything, but do you love Daryl Hall?

[303] I love Daryl Hall.

[304] I love Michael McDonald, Kenny Loggins.

[305] I mean, when I got to meet Kenny Loggins, I didn't even recognize him.

[306] At first, he came, we were doing some morning show together and he came in and said, hi, and told me he really liked my music.

[307] And I was like, that's a nice guy who is at there.

[308] They were like, it's Kenny Loggins.

[309] They were going, holy, get him back here.

[310] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[311] I ran into his dress, and I was like, oh, my God, I didn't even recognize you.

[312] Oh, my God.

[313] But, yeah, man, you know, it's all a lineage.

[314] Even the Bee Gees.

[315] Did you see the recent documentary?

[316] Phenomenal.

[317] So great to have them admit that the reason they were singing in falsetto was because of all of the soul singers they were emulating.

[318] Yeah.

[319] And so I think that's just natural.

[320] Yeah, I brought up Darrell Hall because he was named in Philadelphia, a blue -eyed soul.

[321] Yeah.

[322] And was winning all these acapella contests as one of the only.

[323] only white entrance.

[324] Yeah.

[325] And yeah, I find him incredible.

[326] Now, one thing that's just juicy for me, because I absolutely love him, your first demo was paid for by Al Jaro, which again, only in Hollywood.

[327] Is this somehow?

[328] Only in Hollywood.

[329] I went to a Boys to Men Jodice concert at the Hollywood Palladium.

[330] I end up meeting a table full of 18 -year -old black guys.

[331] I sing for them in the club at the Hollywood Palladium, we make friends, we start a band together when I'm like 14, and two of the members of our group, their godfather is Al Jaro.

[332] So I end up at their house sometimes.

[333] I'm hanging out with Al a little bit, and my dad does not want to pay for a demo at 14, right?

[334] My dad's like, it's too soon, it's too soon.

[335] We're not going, I'm not giving you $1 ,500 to record music, no. So Al Jero gave us the $1 ,500.

[336] We cut the three songs, Tricky Stewart, who ended up producing for a bee, Beyonce and Rion, and one of the biggest producers, he was just getting started at the time.

[337] I cut a couple more songs with him because he heard those songs.

[338] And next door, Brian McKnight was recording at the same studio.

[339] Brian heard those songs.

[340] Yeah.

[341] And thus it all began.

[342] Okay.

[343] So there's so many elements how your childhood set you up to be where you're at because the notion you're out at 14 clubs singing for people.

[344] Also, not everyone's allowed to tool around town.

[345] Yeah, like I said, dad was gone on the weakest.

[346] I have a question that maybe's dicey.

[347] We can cut it.

[348] We'll cut anything out.

[349] I'm here open kimono.

[350] But now that we live in a very scrutinizing time and cultural appropriation is a big thing, is it hard to be a white musician who's between.

[351] doing soul music for this long, and now it feels like, uh -oh, am I going to get called out for cultural appropriation?

[352] Even though, I mean, I think music is all about pulling influences from other people and other things, but it's just so heightened right now.

[353] I feel like it'd be scary.

[354] Yeah, but you know what?

[355] There's just something about music and especially this generation, because we've all grown up on hip -hop, it's just different now, you know what I mean?

[356] And like, I've been on BET for 20 years.

[357] You know what I mean?

[358] Beet was the first to play my video.

[359] I had a Sprite commercial on BET is the only place I play.

[360] Yeah.

[361] So I was on The Real Husbands of Hollywood with Kevin Hart on BET.

[362] So for me, that is my family, that is my home.

[363] My new video that just came out, BET premiered it.

[364] Even 20 years later, it's still BET is the place that I get the most love and that is home to me. I think it's going to be other white people maybe that are still trying to be to figure out where they fit.

[365] Again, I think the music does the talking, right?

[366] If you're Eminem, no one gives a fuck.

[367] And if you're Mac Miller, no one gives a fuck.

[368] Like, if you're good and you're adding something to it and not just ripping.

[369] Yeah, and Justin Timberlake and Justin Bieber, I think this generation, it's a collaboration.

[370] It's different from what one it was.

[371] It used to be Elvis with a band of white guys on stage doing black music.

[372] Now it's a collaborative.

[373] Now there's black directors doing our videos.

[374] There's black songwriters.

[375] There's black producers.

[376] We're on stage.

[377] We're in the videos together.

[378] It's all a collaborative, positive life force, you know, now.

[379] And I don't think it's anyone on the inside saying anything.

[380] It's only on the outside.

[381] Yeah, and those are the people that are still trying to figure out where they fit into this American culture.

[382] But really, if you treat everybody with respect and you give everybody the same kind of love and equality, then you won't have these questions in your head.

[383] You just treat people the way you're supposed to treat people.

[384] And it won't matter.

[385] It usually takes us an hour to discover this, but you have zero chips on your shoulder.

[386] Would you agree, Monica?

[387] Yeah.

[388] Just like a positive takeaway of nearly everything.

[389] Have you strove for that or have you always been that way?

[390] No, no. I mean, I've always been very positive, but I just went through my darkest days.

[391] My father, my house, my mentor, my addictions, just everything at the same time all hit the wall.

[392] And I don't want to be that person ever again.

[393] Yeah.

[394] When you carry those chips, you're suffering.

[395] None of the people you have a chip on your shoulder about are suffering.

[396] Now I have to remind myself to go easy on myself.

[397] Oh, God.

[398] Yeah.

[399] The biggest chip now is against me. Oh, yeah.

[400] So I think I was listening to Stern, you on Stern, and then I had found out that you had been sober for some period of time, right?

[401] Mm -hmm.

[402] I guess you hadn't, like, at a young age, identified that you were an addict or anything.

[403] No, no, it wasn't until my 30s.

[404] I was in good control of my faculties.

[405] You know, I was a beer and a glass of wine kind of guy, but it wasn't until the touring and the partying and the lifestyle.

[406] And you just think you can manage it all.

[407] You think you can keep going at that pace.

[408] And then your habits catch up with you.

[409] Yeah.

[410] Opiates have the illusion of being manageable, don't they?

[411] Yes.

[412] And the illusion of normalcy, of some form of normalcy, you know, you don't have to hide in the bathroom.

[413] You're not falling down or slurring your words.

[414] It's not on your breath.

[415] It's not on your breath.

[416] Yeah, you can't necessarily see it in the eyes.

[417] Yeah.

[418] But at least for me, personally, even though you're doing all those things, you're not actually present for them.

[419] In my recent brush with it, I was doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing.

[420] I'm putting the kids to bed.

[421] I'm washing dishes.

[422] I'm interviewing people.

[423] I'm telling myself, wow, this is so manageable.

[424] And yet now, obviously, I have the clarity to say, well, it wasn't really present for any of it.

[425] Because all I'm actually thinking about is like, where are we at?

[426] When am I taking another one?

[427] Where am I going to take another one?

[428] It actually is playing in the foreground.

[429] And my life is playing in the background.

[430] Yes.

[431] And I just wondered if that was your experience.

[432] Well, yeah, I mean, I want to be considerate.

[433] I don't want to be reckless with my statements.

[434] I want to be careful.

[435] Just to to be honest and careful about the timeline, because I think it was when I moved out to Malibu and April and I were having our honeymoon, because the blurred line stuff, that was a pill thing.

[436] That was like pill drinking.

[437] My back was hurting.

[438] It started from traveling on long flights and back pain, and then it just became a bad habit.

[439] But once all the blurred lines madness stopped and I moved to Malibu, I had a really nice honeymoon with April for a while.

[440] And then the honeymoon slowed down and the drinking increased and then my father passed.

[441] And now I'm out, kind of out of the business.

[442] I put on 50 pounds.

[443] I just kind of lost myself.

[444] I was making music that wasn't even like from my heart anymore.

[445] And that's where I kind of lost myself for a while.

[446] And it wasn't really until COVID hit and my mentor passed away that it all became very clear.

[447] Uh -huh.

[448] That was kind of the bottom.

[449] I was functioning.

[450] I was doing, like you said, but I wasn't high all day.

[451] It was more like take care of the kids and once they're asleep, I'm going to drink myself to sleep.

[452] Sure, sure.

[453] But then you're cranky in the mornings.

[454] Then you're arguing with your lady and you don't remember what you said.

[455] And then it's just like, this isn't a life for a family.

[456] And I can't be the dad.

[457] I want to be like this.

[458] Yeah.

[459] What was the experience?

[460] Because you were successful for decades, right?

[461] Yeah.

[462] And then Blurred, lines is to launch out of a fucking cannon, right?

[463] I mean, I can't remember a song that was more ubiquitous and, I mean, it was just, yeah, it was an avalanche of everything, right?

[464] Yeah.

[465] That can be hard to manage, no?

[466] Knowing what I know now, I could have managed it all better.

[467] It turns out that I still had a child inside of me that needed unrealistic things.

[468] I had unrealistic desires.

[469] And then they got more selfish.

[470] The more successful I became, the more selfish my desires became.

[471] And with a little therapy and some self -realization and just some reality slapping you in the face, I have finally woken up and now I can be myself, love myself, I can be the butt of the joke and be okay with it finally.

[472] That was hard for me. I held on so tight to my music in my art that I couldn't laugh at myself.

[473] And being able to laugh at myself has become my new superpower.

[474] That's what gets me through.

[475] It's one of the greatest qualities someone can have.

[476] Absolutely.

[477] But, you know, the experiences that you've been lucky enough to have that I've been lucky enough to have, they are so heightened.

[478] And they are very unique and most people don't really experience those.

[479] Like, you know, if you walk on stage and you're playing to 30 ,000 people, that's just such a heightened experience.

[480] Yeah.

[481] And I almost feel like to avoid some crash, you just start trying to amplify every other pocket of your life because it's so stark in contrast to what you're experiencing.

[482] Yeah, and I think that some people can manage it.

[483] If you don't have those drugs and alcohol to try to balance yourself out, then you won't have those issues.

[484] My father's lifelong mantra was always balance, balance.

[485] And then, of course, when I lost balance, everything went out of whack.

[486] And now that I focus on my balance, I focus on getting enough rest, being present with the kids, being present in my work, even on the mass singer, making sure that I'm enjoying it, instead of being up there like, man, I never thought I'd have to do something like this.

[487] Sure.

[488] Yeah, because when I started, I, you know, I still thought, hey, man, what am I doing here?

[489] Yeah.

[490] I'm a singer, and then now I've totally embraced it.

[491] And I'm having more fun than ever.

[492] The producers are happier than never.

[493] So you realize you are standing in your way.

[494] Yeah.

[495] And that's what my issue has been.

[496] I've been in my way for too long.

[497] I imagine there's a layer for you.

[498] you that say I didn't have like my dad hadn't navigated and managed that kind of attention perfectly and then I came along and did it bad I guess if I were you I'd probably feel like I had really disappointed him on top of whatever I've done to myself right but with all due respect to my father and through some therapy I realized that he was gone a lot by choice and as a son that hurts Like, why do you have to keep going to another cool person's party?

[499] Why can't you hang out with me?

[500] Why can't you take me places?

[501] So through therapy, I realized that I was still searching for his attention, for his approval.

[502] And here I am trying to be a rock star to make him proud of me. And because maybe if I'm a rock style, he'll hang out with me. Yeah, yeah.

[503] Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

[504] What's up, guys, this is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[505] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[506] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[507] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[508] And I don't mean just friends.

[509] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[510] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[511] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[512] We've all been there.

[513] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[514] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[515] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[516] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[517] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[518] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[519] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[520] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[521] Oh my God, so this is fascinating because I imagine when blurred lines happens, you have created this fantasy where if that ever has, happened.

[522] You were going to feel like this.

[523] Yeah.

[524] I'll be the coolest to my dad, finally.

[525] Yeah.

[526] And none of these fantasies ever are what you think they're going to be, right?

[527] No, no. Of course, no. Can I ask what he died of?

[528] A heart attack.

[529] Oh, a heart attack.

[530] Yeah, it was very sudden.

[531] I'm very sorry about that.

[532] Luckily, right before he passed, even though I was drinking a lot, I was going through a gratitude period for my parents because I was having a tough time.

[533] I really appreciated how they had kept it together for so long.

[534] And I had some great talks with my dad leading up right before he passed about how much I appreciated him and looked up to him and how I don't know how he made it that long, keeping it all together.

[535] Yeah.

[536] And I got to let him know how much I appreciated him.

[537] So that felt good.

[538] Have you found that, like, for me, having kids has also provided this opportunity to forgive him in all these ways.

[539] I don't think I could have if I hadn't had kids.

[540] Even more so, my mom, who had a very difficult childhood, isn't the type to deal in too much emotion.

[541] Because it's overwhelming for her if she has to deal in emotion.

[542] So I always wanted more from my mom.

[543] Come on, Mom, give me a little more.

[544] And now that I have kids, and I've been through the ringer and been in the same business that she's been, and I have so much love and respect for my mom's grace and her dignity and her keeping her head on her shoulders and not becoming an addict and not losing her cool.

[545] You know, just I have so much admiration from my mother that I don't know I had until I had children.

[546] Yeah, it was so helpful.

[547] Let's talk about Farrell.

[548] I'm kind of obsessed with Farrell, not knowing a ton about music, but there's just something about him that seems, I feel like we've got like a Picasso among us or something.

[549] Yeah, yeah.

[550] How did you meet him?

[551] How was that friendship and working partnership?

[552] My first album was critically received.

[553] very well.

[554] It didn't sell a lot, but on the inside circles, I had a lot of respect in the soul music community.

[555] So Farrell was a fan of the first album, and then he was signing his new deal with Interscope Records for Star Trek and Jimmy Iveen, who owns Interscope Records, he was always great at pairing people together.

[556] He would put Eminem with Dre.

[557] He would put 50 cent with Eminem.

[558] So he put me with Farrell to have Farrell put his arm around my shoulder and present me. me to the public that way.

[559] So his co -sign opened up doors from me and then blurred lines, you know, we got lucky with that years later.

[560] But it was really just him ushering me into the world saying, you got to check this guy out.

[561] You got to listen to this guy.

[562] What happened?

[563] He just helped me out in every single way.

[564] That's interesting because we just interviewed Timberlake and he has the exact same story that between Pharrell and Timbalin, that kind of gave him the pass or at least gave him a neutral like, you know, we're going to listen.

[565] Well, the great thing about Justin was that Pharrell produced that first album, and they just had great record after, because I remember hearing also that weren't some of those records supposed to be from Michael Jackson?

[566] Yeah, Michael turned him down, and then he did them all on Justin, and then Justin has a $10 million selling album.

[567] So, I mean, those are still today those records play in their badass.

[568] So they just knocked it out of the park with Justin's first album.

[569] I remember watching Justin because I was like, oh, let's see what this guy does.

[570] But then when I heard the records, I was like, damn, this is good records.

[571] If I were you, I would have been real positioned to hate him.

[572] Like, oh, okay, he's leaving this boy band.

[573] I've been doing this for 15 years.

[574] Well, the good thing was is that I had the long hair at the time.

[575] I saw myself as some other thing.

[576] My first album, I even went by the name Thick.

[577] You know, I didn't even go by Robin Thick.

[578] Because I thought I was like Beck.

[579] Sure, sure, sure.

[580] I thought I was the artist artist.

[581] I thought, okay, Justin, he's a superstar, pop star.

[582] I'm the artist, and we're two different worlds.

[583] Yeah.

[584] Of course, then years later, here we are the synergy of, you know, and everything that you want to accomplish, you realize that your paths are more intertwined than they're not.

[585] Was there someone's career that you wanted or that you thought you were emulating?

[586] Oh, you know, not really.

[587] I think there was somewhere in between Michael Jackson and Bruce Springsteen.

[588] Okay.

[589] Because my dad's favorite was Bruce Springsteen.

[590] That feels very on brand for your dad, yeah.

[591] Yeah, Bruce Springsteen was everything, a poet, a man's man, a man of the people.

[592] And so that was very much a part of who I am.

[593] But then I wanted to be the superstar of the showman that Michael Jackson was.

[594] What about Prince?

[595] I feel like you were going more after Prince because he was a little sexier.

[596] And, yeah, the musician side of Prince.

[597] Also a pill addict.

[598] Yeah.

[599] So many connections.

[600] We're so similar.

[601] Oh, man. Okay.

[602] Okay, so as you said, the last run you've been on is just every conceivable thing that could happen.

[603] By the way, I did not know you gained 50 pounds.

[604] Was that done pleasurably or slowly, immediate?

[605] It was slowly.

[606] Okay.

[607] Yeah, I mean, I just procrastinating, like, I'll get back to it, I'll get back to it, and then all of a sudden five years went by.

[608] And the mass singer was so great for me because it made me get out of my butt, put a suit on, go to work, have to see myself in the mirror and go, gosh, what happened to you, buddy?

[609] Yeah.

[610] And so then the self -hate, the self -loathing, that kicks in.

[611] And so like I said, it really wasn't until a year ago when COVID struck and my dad was gone.

[612] And then my mentor, my executive producer, my best buddy, godfather to my son was gone.

[613] And that was just like, I have to change my life and I got to live more.

[614] Can you tell me how he was a mentor to you?

[615] I've not had one.

[616] And I'm curious, like, musically or spiritually?

[617] or just in every way.

[618] He showed up and he owned uptown records, which was Jodacy, Father MC, Heavy D, Guy, all these great music from the 90s.

[619] Then he ran Bad Boy Records with Puffy.

[620] He gave Puffy his first job and he mentored Puffy.

[621] He signed Mary J. Blyde.

[622] So he was a sole godfather and a music godfather to so many.

[623] So he meets me when he's moving to L .A. to start his L .A. move.

[624] He had been in New York for 20 years.

[625] Puffy is at the height of Puffy fame.

[626] and Andre comes to me, hears me sing.

[627] He sees something special.

[628] He makes me feel like finally somebody gets me, right?

[629] This is before I've released any of my own solo music.

[630] Can I ask what age you are then?

[631] About 22, 23.

[632] I think we met in 99 or 2000.

[633] It was right around then.

[634] And so I was just starting to dedicate my time to my own solo music.

[635] And I met him, and he taught me how to walk, how to talk, how to dress.

[636] He took the photos.

[637] He helped me with every song.

[638] what it was missing, what I was trying to accomplish with my music, because I was all over the place.

[639] And he actually said, okay, well, what are you trying to accomplish?

[640] Then you want to go here with it.

[641] And then all of his connections.

[642] So I throw a Halloween party.

[643] I've got Naomi Campbell, Mariah Carey, Ted Demi, Paul Thomas Anderson, seal.

[644] Seal!

[645] At the height of seal.

[646] These are the people in my studio before my album comes out, okay, at my Halloween party.

[647] So Andre's friends are.

[648] are everyone.

[649] And now I'm got long hair and I'm fabulous and I got all, and I'm thinking they're my friends too.

[650] Everybody's loving the music and then the album drops and we don't sell anything.

[651] And Jimmy Ivan spent $5 million and the album's a total commercial flop.

[652] And then that's where the evolution of Robin Thick songs came.

[653] And that's when I finally started writing my best material.

[654] It was when I fell on my face.

[655] Man, you've been humbled a bunch, huh?

[656] Yeah, man. It's good for you.

[657] It's an art form to, honestly, I know it's cliche and everyone says it, but it's so much more admirable to watch someone repeatedly get up.

[658] Thank you.

[659] Thank you.

[660] Well, you know, what's funny is that, like you were saying, you know, growing up in a semi -privileged life and wanting to be a soul singer, I probably needed these things to happen to justify my music.

[661] Yeah, yeah.

[662] Now my life has justified my music finally.

[663] Not to harp on blurred lines, but again, it was just such a spectacular thing.

[664] It was so spectacular.

[665] In those moments where you like, okay, this is it.

[666] Like, I'm Jay -Z from going forward.

[667] Yeah, yeah, you get a little cocky and you start thinking everything you touch is gold.

[668] And then you stop focusing on the details.

[669] And then you just start saying yes to everything because the check is big.

[670] I will make an excuse for you, which is you had spent 20.

[671] years getting by.

[672] It's like, you don't know that that's ever going to happen again.

[673] It's very fucking tempting.

[674] Yeah, yeah.

[675] But more than that, I think I just wanted it for so long.

[676] And then when it came, I was already in a crumbling marriage.

[677] You know, we were already at our end of the road.

[678] And then this hit when we were just struggling to hold on to our marriage.

[679] And then they drinking and everything magnifies.

[680] And then I just wasn't the person that I set out to be anymore.

[681] I had such great intentions, you know, when I got started.

[682] I was a hippie.

[683] I was all about love and equality and positivity and hope.

[684] And then all of a sudden, it just, I lost the message.

[685] I lost it.

[686] It can happen.

[687] I doubt you want to talk about, Paula, but I did not have any idea that you guys had been together for 21 years.

[688] That is, that's crazy.

[689] Yeah.

[690] And you were, what, 14 and she was 16 when you met?

[691] Yeah, well, when we met, yeah, 14 and 15.

[692] Again, out at a nightclub at 14.

[693] At a nightclub owned by David Faustino I mean, come on, it was called ballistics.

[694] It was a summer club for teenagers.

[695] That was my spot when I was 14.

[696] Oh my God.

[697] I was with a girl for nine years.

[698] She met me. I was a fucking loser.

[699] I then became successful while I was with her.

[700] And one of the things that really broke my heart about that not working out is I cherished the idea that this person knew me from the get and was along for the ride and knew the real me. And I hated losing that.

[701] Yeah.

[702] Well, you know, what's funny is that because we both were in the business, we both changed.

[703] The business does change your outlook, your desires.

[704] It changes the way you think about yourself.

[705] It just changes things.

[706] And her and I had so much love and positivity in the quintessential Hollywood romance.

[707] I helped her with her lines before auditions.

[708] She helped me with my choruses.

[709] I got stuck.

[710] I mean, we lived the dream.

[711] Then it didn't work anymore.

[712] The great thing is that I've been lucky enough to find somebody in April who could care less about that stuff.

[713] She likes the father in me. She likes all the other things of my purse, my sense of humor and what a dad I am.

[714] She could care less if I ever hit a stage again.

[715] Well, the thing that you just kind of said, which is so true, is it's a business that actually requires you to think about yourself.

[716] and too fucking much.

[717] Way too much.

[718] But it is almost a requirement of the job.

[719] Like, you can't just show up on stage and have not thought about what you're going to look like, not thought about what you're crafting, all that stuff.

[720] Yeah, vanity is an ugly, ugly thing.

[721] Yeah.

[722] Have you started to do Embrace getting older yet?

[723] It just happened to me. I saw gray in the side of my hair, and I was like, oh, I think I'm going to keep it now.

[724] I'm ready.

[725] I'm still working on my self -image.

[726] Yeah.

[727] I'm too extreme with my...

[728] I either love it or I hate it.

[729] I gotta find a steady horse in the middle.

[730] A neutral ground?

[731] Yeah, I'm getting to a neutral ground.

[732] Well, I finally have shed it off a lot of the weight this last year because of the not drinking and just taking better care of myself.

[733] But really, the best thing, like I said, has just been able to laugh at my imperfections.

[734] And that's been the biggest change, that I just wanted to be so cool and so perfect and so fly that I didn't want him to know I had a limp in my knee.

[735] I didn't want anyone to know.

[736] That now I'm like, you know what?

[737] I'm a dad.

[738] I'm just letting it all wash off.

[739] And I'm holding on to whatever bit of cool I have left.

[740] Or dear life.

[741] But that's what's cool.

[742] That's the irony, right?

[743] It is.

[744] And then that becomes cool.

[745] And that's what I realize is that when I was trying to be cool, I was actually turning people off.

[746] Yeah.

[747] I didn't realize it if I just would have been myself and I would have slowed everything down.

[748] but I had to be something all the time.

[749] There's freedom in letting it all go, man. Yeah, yeah.

[750] You're kind of sending a signal like, I love me, so I'm worthy of love, and you're probably going to love me too.

[751] Yeah, I'm not so bad.

[752] Yeah, yeah.

[753] There's worse.

[754] There's worse out there.

[755] Okay, so you have a new album for the first time in six years on Earth and in Heaven.

[756] Yes, sir.

[757] And you collaborate again with Farrell.

[758] It's first time since, blurred line?

[759] Yeah, well, actually, we do.

[760] started this record in the same sessions as Blurred Lines back in the day.

[761] We did three days and we wrote three songs.

[762] This was one of them.

[763] And then we got together four years ago, went back in the studio, added horns, some guitar, added a cooler intro, and just made the record come alive.

[764] And then I just put it in my pocket and I was holding it until I finished the album, which I finally did.

[765] And what was it like this process?

[766] Because life's so different now.

[767] It's all very different and I'm just still adjusting to it.

[768] First time I put an album, out and there's no celebration.

[769] There's no party.

[770] There's no friends around.

[771] There's no Andre, you know, no dad.

[772] So it's all very new.

[773] And sometimes it's a little sad, but I keep putting my energy into my kids and into my friendships.

[774] And the time that I miss with Andre and the times that I miss with my dad because I was drunk or I was hungover, I didn't like the way I looked.

[775] And I didn't spend time with them.

[776] Yeah, yeah.

[777] Now I don't want to ever be like that again and missed an opportunity to spend quality time with people I love.

[778] Yeah.

[779] So really quick, the mask singer.

[780] So here's what I know about the mask singer.

[781] When I go on, that was it.

[782] That's the old me, the mass singer.

[783] When I, I'd say once a week I go on Twitter and most of the questions are, are you this week's mass singer?

[784] I can't tell you how often people, and I'm the worst singer in the world.

[785] You'll know if I'm ever on it.

[786] I'll start guessing you more often, man. It's a real phenomenon on that show, right?

[787] People just, they have to know who it is.

[788] Yeah, it's fun.

[789] Who's been the funest masked singer thus far?

[790] Well, I mean, we just actually wrapped last night.

[791] Oh, you did?

[792] Yeah, season five.

[793] Do you have an audience?

[794] No, the audience is filmed from previous shows.

[795] Oh, that's cool.

[796] And virtually set in.

[797] So we're just there, the panel, we have our social distance, and we get tested every day on set and everything.

[798] So we feel safe and I'm so lucky to have a job right now.

[799] It's just nice to have a job.

[800] Oh, we feel the exact same way.

[801] Yeah, the fact that we were able to pivot and do this over Zoom has been so lucky.

[802] So who was the biggest mass singer?

[803] The biggest, well, I can't talk about anybody from this season, of course, but Little Wayne was great for me. I didn't guess Little Wayne, and he's one of my favorite artists of all time.

[804] We've done six records together.

[805] I was gonna say you guys have worked together.

[806] This is amazing.

[807] Yeah, and I did not recognize Little Wayne.

[808] Get out of here.

[809] That was pretty funny, yeah.

[810] But, you know, just having like Patty LaBelle and Gladys Knight and, you know, being able to see these people in person sing for us in a bee costume, you know.

[811] It's so outrageous and fun.

[812] And the reason that I think it's been a great success, too, is because the panel, we're so goofy and silly.

[813] We're not taking it serious, except for the journeys and the motions that are coming from the stories.

[814] We're up there just laughing our butts off.

[815] Who are you proudest of yourself for guessing?

[816] Bob Saggett.

[817] Oh, sure.

[818] Because Bob's been a family friend for many years, so I got Bob.

[819] Is it because he said fuck and cock sucker three times in a song or?

[820] God.

[821] I love Bob.

[822] He's such a great guy.

[823] Oh, it's the dreamiest gig ever.

[824] It's awesome.

[825] I mean, just laughing with Ken and wearing a suit and trying to guess who's under the mask.

[826] It's the best job I've ever had.

[827] Yeah.

[828] I hope you get 100 seasons out of it.

[829] Yeah.

[830] We've got to put the girls through college now, you know?

[831] Yeah, that's right.

[832] Seasons 8 through 12 will be for that.

[833] You can circle that.

[834] All right, well, everyone should check out on Earth and in heaven.

[835] No chips on your shoulder.

[836] Just a nice positive, yeah.

[837] It's very impressive.

[838] It is.

[839] I'm impressed that you're talking to us after the few years you had there, man. It's really impressive.

[840] Well, you know, I got some great advice from Jay -Z to name drop, because I signed with his management company when my manager passed away.

[841] And he just gave me some great advice.

[842] It's like, whatever you've been through, you need to let people know.

[843] If you want to be embraced, if you want to get back out there and you want to put your music and put yourself back out there, be willing to tell the truth.

[844] Yeah.

[845] And that was good advice.

[846] Did the note rhyme?

[847] He's my number one.

[848] Oh, my God.

[849] He is Picasso walking around.

[850] Yeah, because also he sees the world with such consideration.

[851] He is so considerate and thoughtful, just like Barack Obama or Michelle Obama, like that kind of every room they walk into, they know who they are, they don't change who they are, they give you positive energy and some form of good advice, you know, five minutes, ten minutes from Jay -Z is lifetime advice, you know.

[852] We're dying to have him on you.

[853] Yeah, please, please call him when we hang up and tell him that work.

[854] You know, he needs the exposure, you know.

[855] He really does.

[856] I think he's just about to make it.

[857] He's at a tipping point.

[858] I think this show, this show, take him right over the top.

[859] That's right.

[860] Yeah.

[861] He would have $1 .4 billion if they did our show instead of $1 .3.

[862] Well, listen, Robin, huge pleasure talking to you.

[863] I wanted to say to you, too, you know, that when I heard about your story of last year and turning it into this and being able to tell your truth, what my album and what I've been doing is taking everything life is, throwing at me or that I've thrown it myself and turning it into something positive.

[864] You know, now you're helping people.

[865] You're turning what you've been through into something positive.

[866] And I want to, you know, say thank you and give you a lot of credit for that.

[867] That's hard to do.

[868] Thank you, brother.

[869] Yeah, because you growing up with Austin Green and a band and your dad's on TV, I can't relate at all.

[870] But the fucking shitty three years and your dad, your mentor, now you have something to help me with, you know?

[871] Yeah, yeah.

[872] Now my records will make sense to you now.

[873] Well, cocaine made a lot of sense to me. You know, it was funny about that.

[874] At that time, I had never even tried it.

[875] Never even tried it when I wrote the song.

[876] It was about the dangers and the luring possibilities because I had started to see it around me. And I saw it as a very dangerous thing.

[877] And that's what that song is about.

[878] It is indeed dangerous.

[879] As most fun things are.

[880] Well, thank you so much, Monica.

[881] Thank you.

[882] That's great.

[883] Yeah.

[884] Take care, brother.

[885] I appreciate you guys.

[886] Lots of love.

[887] Bye.

[888] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[889] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[890] Editor's note about this fact check, we were doing it as if it were for another guess, but we still enjoyed so much of the stuff that was talked about during it, that we're going to leave it in.

[891] But if you're hearing the ding, ding, ding, ding, things and going, those are not ding, ding, ding for Robin Thick.

[892] You're right.

[893] And now I give you the wrong fact check.

[894] She's so fine.

[895] There's no telling where the money went.

[896] Simper irresistible.

[897] Hi.

[898] We decided diarrhea can really be described as irresistible.

[899] You can't resist when it's there.

[900] It's undeniable that it's irresistible.

[901] And I don't think many people have previously labeled.

[902] diarrhea is irresistible.

[903] So I feel like we're on to something novel and proprietary perhaps.

[904] Oh, my God.

[905] N &P.

[906] As we always, always strive to do.

[907] N &P is N &P.

[908] Yes.

[909] It's yet another notch in our NNP bedpost.

[910] So we're still far away from each other.

[911] Two thousand miles as the crow flies.

[912] You went to the mall.

[913] Outdoor.

[914] Went to an outdoor mall to just walk around.

[915] sure you know get back to basics really yeah remember who brought you to the that's right and i wore a double mask and i went into a store and i bought a mug that has two hedgehogs hugging and it says hedge hugs yeah i would well first of all you are the perfect person to have that but i was also trying to think who else like if you had to gift that to anyone we know who would you gift it to Kristen she likes animals a lot yeah she does she does she does But I want someone with more of a childlike flare.

[916] Oh, okay.

[917] Like maybe Molly would be the perfect recipient of that.

[918] She would like hedge hugs.

[919] Yeah, it's very innocent.

[920] Now I'm feeling guilty like I should give it to her.

[921] Yeah.

[922] Because she's picking me up from the airport.

[923] Oh, my God, she is.

[924] Well, you should definitely present her with that then.

[925] Shit, but I want to drink out of it right now.

[926] Well, drink out of it, then wrap it up and send it.

[927] It'll be like the left -handed mugs we sell.

[928] Oh, I'm so torn.

[929] I'm so torn.

[930] My love of gift giving is really conflicted with my desire to keep that adorable mug.

[931] The unstoppable force is meeting the immovable object.

[932] So your number one calling card is your gift giving.

[933] And then you're also a brat, a spoiled brat.

[934] So that's the immovable object.

[935] So what will give?

[936] Is it a brat to want to keep the thing you bought for yourself with your own money?

[937] No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, but you're a little mouse that's like, I want that lamp.

[938] I'm going to get that lamp.

[939] Yes, I am, but I'm not a little mouse that says, I want that lamp.

[940] Buy me that lamp.

[941] No, you don't want anyone to buy it for you.

[942] That's not what you're asking for.

[943] No. That to me is Braddy.

[944] That's spoiled.

[945] Well, okay, braddy is also just a tiny bit where you go, like, that's way too expensive.

[946] Who cares?

[947] I want it.

[948] That's a little braddy, right?

[949] Interesting.

[950] We have different, we have different definitions.

[951] We are deferential to braddiness.

[952] We have different definitions of braddy, yeah.

[953] Well, okay, let's take a few steps back.

[954] Do you want to dance?

[955] Oh, sure, of course, yes.

[956] Okay, I can break this up.

[957] So one is you were spoiled.

[958] Now you're not because you're a woman of means, but you were spoiled as a kid.

[959] Your mom would run upstairs and make you milkshakes and you screamed at her.

[960] You got a bunch of money.

[961] from your grandma for no reason.

[962] Oh, my God.

[963] Oh, my God.

[964] You're pretty spoiled by my recollection.

[965] You got cars given to you.

[966] You didn't have to buy them.

[967] Yeah.

[968] Those things are all true that you just said.

[969] Okay.

[970] Are you offended yet?

[971] No. I'm just repeating some stuff I know about you.

[972] I'm not offended.

[973] Okay.

[974] It's all relative.

[975] My mom and I were actually just having this conversation because she even said, like, remember when you were younger, you'd always want stuff.

[976] and I'd say no. Like, she acknowledges that about herself.

[977] Yeah, like, like designer clothes and stuff?

[978] Not designer, limited to.

[979] Well, that's, that's nice.

[980] I'm sure when you were in junior high in high school, that was the shit, no?

[981] Was it not?

[982] Yeah, it was.

[983] It was.

[984] But I don't know that I could, I could ethically qualify it as designer now that I'm an adult and I know what that means.

[985] Right.

[986] Like you weren't a secondhand store.

[987] No. Kmart or big lots.

[988] I had some pants from Sam's Goody, Sam Goodies.

[989] Did you have any pants from Big Lots?

[990] I don't think so.

[991] But all my furniture for college came from Big Lots.

[992] Okay, great.

[993] Yeah.

[994] Really trusted name in college furnishings.

[995] Oh, yeah.

[996] So, the point is, I was very privileged.

[997] I was.

[998] Okay.

[999] I don't know that I would say spoiled.

[1000] Well, I know what's tricky.

[1001] I know why.

[1002] You know why you, you just said it relative, because there were other people in your school that were more spoiled.

[1003] There were kids that probably had sports cars.

[1004] Oh, I mean, the reason my mom is acknowledging that she didn't do that is because my friends got those things.

[1005] So relative to them, you know, she'd buy me like a shirt and they would get 40 shirts.

[1006] And so I did not feel spoiled.

[1007] I'm now having like a real -time realization.

[1008] Okay.

[1009] I have the problem, which is I don't think I deserve things.

[1010] Like, I have to really wrestle with buying it.

[1011] Well, you know, my Mercedes station wagon, I wanted it for six years.

[1012] I could have afforded it for 15 years, and I wouldn't buy it for myself.

[1013] For some reason, I was like, you don't deserve a fucking Mercedes AMG.

[1014] So eventually, Kristen bought it with money she and I had both made on these commercials.

[1015] But I don't know that I would have ever bought it.

[1016] And I realize that's my baggage.

[1017] I don't think I feel worthy of a lot of things.

[1018] And so I think your baseline is healthier.

[1019] Like the lamp is a funny one because you go like, oh, I saw this lamp, but it's way too expensive.

[1020] I'm going to get it.

[1021] I just think of myself in that situation and it's just so foreign to me. I would go like, oh, my God, I really want that lamp.

[1022] But there's no way.

[1023] I can't buy a lamp that's expensive.

[1024] You know what I'm saying?

[1025] Like, I go through this whole thing.

[1026] Sure.

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] Yeah, I don't have much of that.

[1029] I do.

[1030] I have.

[1031] a, oh my God, this lamp is so expensive.

[1032] I can't afford it if I can't afford it.

[1033] Right.

[1034] And that's like practical.

[1035] It's like, oh, I want that.

[1036] That's so expensive, but I can't afford it.

[1037] It's not, oh my God, I want that.

[1038] It's so expensive.

[1039] So I shouldn't buy it.

[1040] I shouldn't buy it because it's so expensive.

[1041] I don't have that.

[1042] I have like, I can buy it or I can't buy it.

[1043] Right.

[1044] Right.

[1045] Well, Well, and tied to some of that is you don't have the same fear of financial insecurity as I do, because you've had much security.

[1046] So if you can afford it, you don't go, I can afford this today, but what about in four months?

[1047] What if I don't work as much?

[1048] Will I be regretful?

[1049] I spent the money on this expensive lamp, and I didn't prepare for the future.

[1050] Like, I guess that's in my calculus at all times, too.

[1051] I was only acting, I would feel a lot more scared to make big purchases like that.

[1052] But since I have a consistent job, I feel much more willing to.

[1053] And getting deeper than that, I guess what I really don't have a fear of is finding employment.

[1054] Right.

[1055] Like I really, really don't have a fear at all.

[1056] that I'll be someone who can't get a job.

[1057] And that is probably arrogant.

[1058] I'm sure it is.

[1059] And I'm not saying I'll have the best job.

[1060] But I know tomorrow I can get a job somewhere, even if it's like...

[1061] To feed yourself.

[1062] Exactly.

[1063] I know that I'm capable of doing that.

[1064] So I'm not really super scared.

[1065] Sure.

[1066] Sure.

[1067] That'd be great.

[1068] It's close.

[1069] Is it close?

[1070] Where is it?

[1071] There's a pier one so close.

[1072] By the way, the place is almost invisible.

[1073] That pier one is in not a great area.

[1074] Doesn't look like a pier one, right?

[1075] Every time I pass it, I'm like, how long has that place been closed?

[1076] When are they going to take the sign down?

[1077] There's never been a car in the parking lot.

[1078] It has looked closed for the 16 years I've lived in Los Angeles.

[1079] Yes, but it's not.

[1080] It's still kicking.

[1081] And it's in the shadow of my 7 -Eleven, which is a very dicey place.

[1082] Yes, it's not.

[1083] As you know, I've had some physical.

[1084] altercations there i've had a lot of stuff happen at that 7 -11 yeah which is kind of why i like it i told you right when aaron and i retire we're gonna we're gonna work at 7 -11 oh that would be fun because we figured out that's where you see the shit like stuff is going down at 7 -11 like every 45 minutes in l .a at least i can't speak for other places but there's much activity i tend to avoid it yeah there's like people people are passed out in some of the aisles there's a fist -fi there's like sex acts going on there's people showering in the commode there's i mean it is just there's so much a fervor of activity at all times speaking of ding ding ding sort of uh i was watching with my parents the dock on the hotel cecil in los angeles oh my god i mean i knew the story about the girl who who gets put in the water tank yeah but there's just so much that goes on in that hotel Hell, yes, because it's right off Skid Row and a lot of, a lot of stuff.

[1085] Of action.

[1086] A lot of action.

[1087] You might want to consider retiring there instead.

[1088] We might take a night shift there and a day shift at 7 -11.

[1089] Or just keep it light and do three and three.

[1090] Oh, wow.

[1091] Okay.

[1092] I have so many ideas about my retirement.

[1093] Another one is what you know about is I've long fantasized about when I retire volunteering to mow the lawn at the veterans' cemetery.

[1094] on Wilshire and the 405 there because I love mowing grass so much and it is the biggest plot of grass in Los Angeles and every time I drive over that pass I'd be like, man, when I like to ride a lawnmower there for a few hours a day.

[1095] This is a ding, ding, ding, and I'll tell you why.

[1096] Because you tend to think much more about work, about whether you're going to, about retirement like I've I've literally and you're older than me so um considerably no thanks for reminding everyone I'm saying you're older than me so maybe that's why I have I'm about to say I've literally never ever ever ever thought about what I will do in my retirement right and maybe that comes with age I'm saying I don't think it's that I think it's back to the the obsession of like having enough so that I can make it to that period where then I don't have to worry like retirement symbolizes a period where you don't have to worry.

[1097] Security, yes.

[1098] Yeah, yeah.

[1099] False security, yeah.

[1100] And in that time, I'd like to mow the grass work at 7 -Eleven.

[1101] I also want to drive a cab and not an Uber.

[1102] Okay.

[1103] A cab.

[1104] Because, again, people are, like, people plan to get in an Uber.

[1105] Sometimes people are jumping in a cab because they just committed a crime.

[1106] They're trying to get away from somebody.

[1107] There's, like, again, it's just a hotbed for action, a cab.

[1108] Hmm.

[1109] It's weird to you, right, that I desire.

[1110] Well, I'm a little sad that those are your plans because I don't know that we're going to be that close anymore if those are your plans.

[1111] Because I can't be there for any of that.

[1112] I'm not interested in any of the things you just said.

[1113] It is not for you.

[1114] But I'll only work like four hours a day.

[1115] It's my retirement.

[1116] So there'll be all kinds of social time.

[1117] It sounds like it will probably lead to your demise pretty quickly.

[1118] Oh, no. If there's anyone that was born to navigate.

[1119] stressful, violent situations, it's Aaron and I. Would it make you feel better if we were together at all times?

[1120] Like, that'd also be interesting.

[1121] You get in a cab, and the cab driver always has his friend with him.

[1122] Yeah, that would make me feel better.

[1123] Yeah, that would.

[1124] Maybe it is that he has a job at 7 -Eleven.

[1125] I have a job at the base motel.

[1126] And, like, we just hang with each other during each other's shifts.

[1127] You know, like, we're not even officially both employed there.

[1128] We're just together.

[1129] Like, he's got his 7 -Eleven vest on.

[1130] And I don't.

[1131] I'm in like a flannel.

[1132] Sure.

[1133] Oh, man. This is a fun life.

[1134] I really hope you enjoy it.

[1135] Why do you think you're not going to be a part of it?

[1136] That's just four hours a day.

[1137] That'd be like if I took up golfing.

[1138] Most seniors take up golfing, which takes like five and a half hours a day.

[1139] I just have a feeling it's going to change you.

[1140] Oh, really?

[1141] Yeah, I do.

[1142] I do.

[1143] Oh, okay.

[1144] So I just got to, I guess, like, enjoy the time we have together.

[1145] But you think for the worst.

[1146] I think it's a way for me to be of service.

[1147] Yeah, I think it will be of service.

[1148] I think it's going to harden you a little bit in a way that might make it less enjoyable to have social time.

[1149] I might bring the job home with me. I do think that.

[1150] Okay, okay.

[1151] The things I've seen, the horrors I saw at 7 -Eleven and in my cab.

[1152] Yeah, that's right.

[1153] Circling back, you are, oh, my God, this is a ding -ding -ding.

[1154] Because this is kind of, there's so many.

[1155] dingles.

[1156] There's so many dingles.

[1157] Ting, ting, tingles.

[1158] This is a chatter.

[1159] This is something that goes on in your head.

[1160] There's a nonstop chatter happening about this.

[1161] I've had more conversations with myself in my head about this retirement plan than I've had in real life about my children's upbringing.

[1162] Like I can tell you like probably three to one.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] And just in your feeling of money and work and all that.

[1165] That's a chatter.

[1166] Oh, it's the ultimate chatter.

[1167] I will say, though, great, great strides for me personally over the last few years.

[1168] I'm all but over that.

[1169] That's great.

[1170] As you've seen me spend recently, I mean, I bought a beautiful motorhome I've been wanting for a decade that I never would let myself get.

[1171] And I don't look at it and go like, oh, that wasn't safe, which is great.

[1172] In the past, I would have looked at that and said, like, oh, that makes me feel unsafe.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] Can I ask, you love my lamp.

[1175] It's fucking beautiful.

[1176] It is worth every penny.

[1177] It really was.

[1178] It's a great purchase, and I think it might even be gaining value.

[1179] Exactly.

[1180] Thank you for saying that.

[1181] It's a great investment, that, Liam.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] You know, it's also, you know, you know your whole theory about, which comes, oh, my God, I'm almost embarrassed to say it.

[1184] But this is a ding -d -d -d -d -game.

[1185] Okay, okay.

[1186] This came up in this episode where you're talking about being tall and, like, if someone says you're short, you just, like, it just rolls off your back because you could care less because, you know, it's not true.

[1187] Yeah.

[1188] And it's interesting.

[1189] Interesting because knowing myself, I should be getting a little more agitated by you saying I'm spoiled or a brat.

[1190] Oh.

[1191] I do get a little.

[1192] Like there's a little something that peaks.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] But I think for me, it's that tall analogy.

[1195] Maybe you're not going to like this, but I'm just like, I'm not.

[1196] I'm not.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] That's great.

[1199] I love that.

[1200] Because I don't want at all.

[1201] I'm not trying to make you feel bad at all.

[1202] Yeah.

[1203] I just hear these what I think are adorable stories about you.

[1204] shouting at your mother that you need milkshakes and that's just a funny to me and braddy but in a very cute way that is of course braddy yes like make me a milkshake yes but that's like a funny story or also like what were we watching and we found out there wasn't another episode and you had a tantrum last dance that was deserved right but to have a tantrum is uh you know it's it's it's one of the hallmarks of braddingness is a tantrum but sometimes i wonder if it's it's You're leaning into it.

[1205] Yeah, it was also making everyone laugh, and I was joking.

[1206] It was a performance.

[1207] Really?

[1208] It was a performance.

[1209] Well, I was, let's be honest.

[1210] Was it 30 % real and 70 % performance?

[1211] The emotion there was real, but the physical tantrum was all a performance.

[1212] Right.

[1213] In a great one.

[1214] I thought it was kind of like doing a character, which you always want me to do.

[1215] It was a great one.

[1216] The character was brave.

[1217] It's your braddy character.

[1218] It was too good of acting and you thought it was me. This happens, yeah.

[1219] Okay, do you want to know?

[1220] I feel like this is going to backfire, but I have one more example I could give about you being braddy.

[1221] Was you went on this family vacationed in New York and you guys were all sharing a hotel room and you just, you had enough and you just checked out, moved down the street.

[1222] I did.

[1223] It's funny.

[1224] I love it.

[1225] And it's a little braddy.

[1226] Right?

[1227] yeah it is but i think you would have done the exact same thing i'm braddy but you know you hear me i constantly am admitting my bradiness i bring it up all the time i'm like oh i was really braddy on set or i'm about i'm about to be braddy like i'm i'm on high alert for when i'm braddy and i am i am braddy yeah for sure i'm entitled i'm um you know i'm delusionally entitled i mean i don't think I have to do anything anyone else does.

[1228] Like, I do not have to wait in traffic.

[1229] I understand traffic is a real thing, but I don't have to wait in it.

[1230] I will ride a motorcycle, so I don't have to.

[1231] Right.

[1232] Like, I just, I am so entitled, and I'm so braddy about so many things.

[1233] Okay.

[1234] Then I'm definitely bratty, too, then if you are.

[1235] I think it's a cool club that we're in.

[1236] The brats.

[1237] Yeah.

[1238] Remember the brat pack?

[1239] Should we could be the brat pack?

[1240] Yes.

[1241] They didn't mind being in there, but there was no shame in being in the brat pack.

[1242] or you'll just have like you'll have like a long story that involve like a food item that wasn't warm enough or something and it'll be like a whole thing like i drove all the way over there and i was desiring this thing and then i got there and then the macho was blah blah blah you know there's there's oh i've never realized that um these are the things i always think are really adorable about you though and i always call it out i'll be like really revved up about a like a you know a dessert item that wasn't on the menu that day.

[1243] Oh, all time.

[1244] There'll be like, there'll be a thing about all time.

[1245] Oh, yeah, they didn't have the pudding for a while.

[1246] I was very upset by that.

[1247] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[1248] That's exactly.

[1249] Sure.

[1250] Yeah, that's all true.

[1251] No. But you'd hear me say it.

[1252] Sure.

[1253] I'm like furious that that fucking Kabooli salad is sometimes available at squirrel and other times not.

[1254] And there's no explanation.

[1255] The ingredients don't seem that scarce to me that this would not be a consistent item they offer.

[1256] It's very brady of me. I guess.

[1257] I guess it is.

[1258] I never have thought of it as braddy.

[1259] But if that's the definition we're going with, then I am.

[1260] Yes.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] Like, I'm like put out by this menu item.

[1263] Which I think is funny.

[1264] Yeah.

[1265] I think a lot of people just be like, oh, it's not on the, yeah, they didn't have it.

[1266] This is a bad thing to say, but I don't want to live like that.

[1267] Like, I don't, I don't want to not care about the pudding.

[1268] Like, I like that.

[1269] Yes.

[1270] Well, herein lies part of our reoccurring thing is so often I make observations that I do believe you think are character assessments.

[1271] Like, for me, being braddy isn't even a negative thing.

[1272] It's just like an observation about, we feel that there is injustice sometimes about very trivial things, which is funny and braddy.

[1273] But it's not a character assessment.

[1274] It's not like, oh, I think less of you because you're mad about the bread pudding.

[1275] I just observe it.

[1276] Butterscotch, but yeah.

[1277] I wouldn't have cared very much.

[1278] But braddiness is considered a negative trait.

[1279] Yeah, yeah.

[1280] But so is entitlement.

[1281] But again, I don't think I'm a bad person because I'm entitled.

[1282] I think I'm aware that I'm entitled.

[1283] Although I will say even entitlement is worse to me on the spectrum than braddiness.

[1284] For me, for sure it is.

[1285] I don't know that I think you are.

[1286] I wouldn't have said that.

[1287] That I'm entitled?

[1288] I mean, when you use the example of the cars, yes, but I don't think of you as an entitled person.

[1289] There are people I think of as entitled people that I know.

[1290] And I would not put you in that category at all.

[1291] Yeah, we almost need a third route because, yes, some people have done nothing and think they deserve a lot.

[1292] That to me is entitlement.

[1293] That's what the definition is to me. Right.

[1294] So here is my most recent bout with entitlement.

[1295] I drive all the way to Utah.

[1296] I check into the hotel for our stay while shooting in Utah.

[1297] And it's a dump.

[1298] It's a dump.

[1299] Here's the level of which it is a dump.

[1300] There's no Kleenex in the room.

[1301] Like, I need Kleenex.

[1302] I have allergies.

[1303] I'm constantly blowing my nose.

[1304] And I'm like, wow, this place doesn't even have Kleenex.

[1305] And then I go in my head, well, I know that SAG requires that they put you in at least like three or four star accommodations.

[1306] So now I'm starting going through the reasons that I deserve to be in a better hotel than this.

[1307] I'm building a case for why I am entitled to be somewhere else.

[1308] And I'm always trying to check my bradiness and entitlement.

[1309] So I want to compose a text message to the producer, Jamie, who I love and is so goddamn helpful and wonderful.

[1310] And so I'm trying to compose this text for, I don't know, 25 minutes where I can basically tell them, I hate this hotel.

[1311] I want to be in a much nicer hotel without sounding like an asshole.

[1312] And it's taking me so long to figure out a way to do that without sounding like an asshole that I just get the idea.

[1313] Maybe I should Google hotels near me to make sure that this isn't.

[1314] actually the best option.

[1315] I do that and it turns out it was the best option so they couldn't have put me anywhere else.

[1316] But I did have a good half hour where I felt like there was an injustice that they were trying to cheat me, that they were trying to save a dollar at my expense of not having Kleenex.

[1317] I went through this whole thing.

[1318] Like I've been working in this business for 20 years.

[1319] Yeah.

[1320] And then you know what?

[1321] Fuck it.

[1322] I'll just pay for my own hotels going forward.

[1323] Like I can afford to stay somewhere with Kleenex.

[1324] I'll just do it.

[1325] And they won't, you know, whatever.

[1326] I have that whole circus, the chatter.

[1327] You have the chatter.

[1328] I actually think that story is brady, but it's not entitled.

[1329] Okay.

[1330] I think, I mean, yeah, we're getting into the weeds, but I like, that's where we love to play around.

[1331] We do.

[1332] We love the weeds.

[1333] To me, entitled is when you expect something that you haven't earned.

[1334] Like, to me, there's just such a clear difference because, I mean, I just have people in my head who I'm like, oh, they're just so entitled.

[1335] and it's so different to me than being braddy.

[1336] Like, I don't even know that some of those people are braddy, but they're very entitled.

[1337] And I would, and maybe it's because I am braddy as we're discovering, but I would much, much prefer braddiness over entitlement.

[1338] Mm -hmm.

[1339] Okay, I'm going to start, because we got to start.

[1340] We got to start talking about.

[1341] Well, we kind of.

[1342] Oh, my God.

[1343] Oh, my God.

[1344] God.

[1345] What happened?

[1346] Oh, my goodness.

[1347] Something so exciting happens.

[1348] This isn't a fact check for Ethan.

[1349] This is a fact check for Robin Thick.

[1350] Oh, my God.

[1351] So all these ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1352] I think we should leave this.

[1353] We have to.

[1354] We have to.

[1355] Okay.

[1356] Okay.

[1357] Now to Robin Thick.

[1358] Which I guess the good news is we talked so much, but we didn't do any facts, which is how I realize.

[1359] I just pulled up my facts, and I'm like, uh -oh.

[1360] So how long was growing pains on the air?

[1361] Growing pains began in 1985, September, two years before my birth.

[1362] Two years before your birth.

[1363] That's right.

[1364] And final episode, April 1992.

[1365] Okay, seven years?

[1366] Yeah, good run.

[1367] It was very formative in my youth because that takes me from 10 years old to 17 years old.

[1368] And remember Leonardo DiCaprio was on it?

[1369] Yeah, he was a wayward homeless kid.

[1370] Oh, God.

[1371] So sexy.

[1372] So sexy.

[1373] I want to ask you a really weird, bizarre question.

[1374] This will be like a Jonathan Haidt thought experiment, moral thought experiment.

[1375] Oh.

[1376] You start dating, you start dating Leonardo DiCaprio.

[1377] You guys are even married.

[1378] We're having sex in the Tyrannosaurus rex skull.

[1379] Pretty regularly.

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] All right.

[1382] So you guys are married.

[1383] In addition to him collecting T. He wrecks skulls.

[1384] He also collects time machines.

[1385] Oh, wow.

[1386] You tell him, oh, my God, you were so cute on that episode of growing pains when you were 15.

[1387] Mm -hmm.

[1388] And he says, I give you permission to go on the time machine and go seduce him.

[1389] Me as my age?

[1390] Yeah.

[1391] Oh, no. I wouldn't do it.

[1392] Okay.

[1393] It's morally reprehensible.

[1394] Yes.

[1395] So the future.

[1396] Okay, good.

[1397] I'm fine with that answer.

[1398] I just want to see.

[1399] Can the future self give consent to a younger self?

[1400] Oh, well, here's the thing.

[1401] I think we've talked about this as far as, like, if you were married and your wife had taken nude pictures of herself at 17, what's the moral line there to look at those and enjoy them if she goes, go ahead and look at them.

[1402] Yeah, they're me and we're married.

[1403] Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people are going to have stuff to say about this.

[1404] I think it's fine.

[1405] There's something about going back in a time machine and actually doing it, like being.

[1406] Because it could harm them.

[1407] Exactly.

[1408] That's like, that's changing the.

[1409] Okay.

[1410] But, but knowing yourself, right?

[1411] So I know me at 15, you would not be harming me. I'm already fucking as often as I can.

[1412] I'm so into it.

[1413] And I would love the experience and I would by no means would I feel preyed upon.

[1414] I know.

[1415] But just ethically, you're interacting with a teenager.

[1416] Minor.

[1417] Yeah.

[1418] That's bad.

[1419] But the picture.

[1420] of your spouse.

[1421] Yeah.

[1422] I find that.

[1423] I think I would even lie.

[1424] I wish Kristen wanted to stare at the pictures of me in high school.

[1425] I think it's fine.

[1426] I mean, I feel like that's definitely the wrong answer.

[1427] But I think I think I would be okay with my husband being attracted to pictures of me at a young age.

[1428] Because here's where I would say from a moral debate.

[1429] stance that you could take is there's simply no victim.

[1430] There isn't a victim.

[1431] That person hasn't existed for 20 years.

[1432] And I think, I mean, really, you're already attracted to the person.

[1433] So part of it is just seeping in.

[1434] It's not like, oh my God, that random picture of a random 17 -year -old is hot.

[1435] It's like, oh, this person I know and love and turned out to be this.

[1436] I love that person.

[1437] And oh, my God, they're so cute as a, you know, I, I don't know.

[1438] I just think it's different.

[1439] Oh, I know.

[1440] We did have this conversation because my question to somebody we interviewed was, what if you as the owner of those pictures, wanted to release those pictures?

[1441] Those are technically child pornography.

[1442] Yeah, I don't think that's good.

[1443] Well, no, I don't.

[1444] Well, because you don't want to give fodder to the pervents.

[1445] Exactly.

[1446] Exactly.

[1447] But if it's your husband, you know they're not.

[1448] You know they're a safe person.

[1449] Like, that's, and they're not going to use them.

[1450] to do any become a weird out yeah exactly yeah okay all right although you never really know because the husband who killed the wife and the kids you never know you don't know okay who is the biggest celebrity who's been on mass singer there's been a lot of people on it so like leanne rhymes was on it nick carter aloe black also so brian austin green was on and oh he was Yes.

[1451] And their best friends.

[1452] I really wish I could play a clip of them rapping together.

[1453] You know, they were in that rap group.

[1454] Me too.

[1455] But I just can't find that.

[1456] And I don't know that they even recorded anything.

[1457] They might have just declared they were a group.

[1458] Perhaps, yeah.

[1459] Kind of like Cowbell.

[1460] Well, let's see.

[1461] Wait, Brian Austin Green rap song.

[1462] Well, he had his own little rap crew.

[1463] Oh, okay.

[1464] Then.

[1465] I think he even wrapped on 90210 at the Peach Pit.

[1466] This is sounding familiar.

[1467] Oh, I love.

[1468] loved him.

[1469] Oh, I bet you did.

[1470] I liked all the guys on that.

[1471] He looks like Ben Affleck.

[1472] A little bit, yeah.

[1473] I liked all the guys.

[1474] I liked Jason Priestley.

[1475] I liked Luke Perry.

[1476] He was the best for me. Yeah.

[1477] He was sexiest.

[1478] It's not unethical to talk about a person who's deceased, right?

[1479] No. Okay.

[1480] No, no, no, no, no, no. No. Oh, what historical figure would you most want to sleep with?

[1481] Oh, my gosh.

[1482] Let's see.

[1483] I got my mind.

[1484] already i i didn't think i was going to be able to think of one but i got mine i think oh i got i got three oh my god amelia airhart oh really that's not that's not what i would have expected okay joan of arc okay cleopatra i thought cleopatra would be in there tell me about amelia airhart she's a beast she's so confident she flew across the ocean no woman had done it or did she i don't know she made it she did disappear over the ocean she disappeared no one found her yeah But to me, that spells confidence, and confidence to me, smells a good time in the rack.

[1485] That's great.

[1486] Okay, I would pick the obvious, like, easy answer is JFK.

[1487] Yeah, okay, good.

[1488] Yeah, he's your guy.

[1489] Well, JFK Jr. is my guy, but I don't know.

[1490] We're counting him.

[1491] So, JFK would be up there.

[1492] I have two suggestions.

[1493] Julius Caesar.

[1494] Wait.

[1495] Didn't Julius Caesar stab or no, he got it.

[1496] Mark Anthony stabbed Julius Caesar on the eyes of March because he was fucking Cleopatra, I believe.

[1497] Ding, ding.

[1498] Oh, my God.

[1499] Okay.

[1500] And then my next one is Genghis Khan, or Jenghis Khan, as they said in the book.

[1501] And I'll tell you why.

[1502] Because he fucked so much.

[1503] I don't think anyone in history has fucked more than Genghis Khan.

[1504] I don't think I would like that.

[1505] Well, he would be so good at it is my assumption.

[1506] Yeah, but that, that, no. It's a turnoff for you.

[1507] I'm talking about just the experience, though.

[1508] Yeah, just the physical experience of sex.

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] I mean, I think I would, okay, if it's just sex, I'm going to stick with JFK on that.

[1511] Oh, or what about MLK?

[1512] I might be very interested in that.

[1513] Well, he fucked a ton too.

[1514] He fucked so much.

[1515] That's not why.

[1516] It's that, like, they, especially him, like, I would be so attracted to his goodness.

[1517] You know, like, oh, he's changing the world.

[1518] He's so good.

[1519] But that wouldn't extend to Gandhi, though.

[1520] Yeah, but that wouldn't extend to Gandhi.

[1521] Handsome and strong.

[1522] Handsome and strong.

[1523] Handsome and strong.

[1524] MLK.

[1525] Gandhi.

[1526] But Gandhi was arguably better than MLK even as far as how many people he helped.

[1527] He was 600 million people.

[1528] I just don't think he would want to have sex with me, Gandhi.

[1529] No, he seems like a terrible life.

[1530] Wait, no, don't say that.

[1531] Don't say that.

[1532] That's not nice.

[1533] Yes, he doesn't even look like he's emaciated.

[1534] He's unhung.

[1535] strike.

[1536] I doubt he can get a wrecked.

[1537] He's fragile.

[1538] He can't lift you up.

[1539] He would be a terrible leg.

[1540] I just think he has other priorities.

[1541] Yeah, he has other priorities.

[1542] I'm trying to think of like a brilliant scientist or like maybe Einstein, but he looks so crazy.

[1543] Like would I be scared of him?

[1544] I don't know.

[1545] But more like Isaac Newton maybe.

[1546] Yeah, or Edison.

[1547] Okay.

[1548] That's freaky.

[1549] Galileo.

[1550] The problem with a lot of the The Great Enlightened and rather the Renaissance people, Leonardo da Vinci, many of those guys are gay.

[1551] Oh, right.

[1552] He did have a beautiful body.

[1553] He posed for a lot of...

[1554] Who, Da Vinci?

[1555] Yeah.

[1556] What about, like, Hemingway, to Mancho?

[1557] He's not for me. Van Gogh is weird.

[1558] Yeah, the artists are odd.

[1559] I think I would be more attracted to one of the scientists.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] I think.

[1562] I think.

[1563] Let's just stick with Jay.

[1564] This is a fun game.

[1565] This should be like a board game.

[1566] I got to keep thinking on this because there's so many people I have.

[1567] I'm just not.

[1568] My brain isn't.

[1569] Yeah.

[1570] But I'm missing hold that case.

[1571] MLK and JFK.

[1572] Ooh, this is a very provocative one.

[1573] Uh -oh.

[1574] Yeah, this is dangerous.

[1575] Jesus.

[1576] Oh, no. Wow.

[1577] But you'd have to imagine if he truly was the son of God, he would be transcendent in the rack.

[1578] Especially if he's the son of God.

[1579] No. Why?

[1580] Why can't the Son of God have sex?

[1581] No, he can, but I don't want to have sex with him.

[1582] That's like a lot of pressure.

[1583] Like, if I did something a little wrong, he wouldn't like it.

[1584] He would banish you to hell.

[1585] But Jesus, the real, Jesus, the historical figure.

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] Yeah.

[1588] Maybe.

[1589] Well, it's a good one on your list.

[1590] He would have had a nice, Mediterranean look.

[1591] And I would have liked that probably, yeah.

[1592] Beautiful.

[1593] Olive skin, soft, beautiful hair.

[1594] Okay.

[1595] The reason I'm scared about JFK, well, a lot, because, you know, there's stuff that's come out about him that's not great.

[1596] But also on the crown, the depiction of him on the crown is not great.

[1597] Like, he was not nice to his wife.

[1598] Well, that's very well documented.

[1599] He was a shitty husband.

[1600] Well, yeah, the crown.

[1601] I doubt the crown should, yeah, go ahead.

[1602] Yeah, the crown does really good research.

[1603] I think everything on the crown is pretty much exactly correct.

[1604] I'm only saying they didn't break any new ground with that revelation.

[1605] Oh, yeah.

[1606] No, I don't think they were trying to.

[1607] And they never are trying to.

[1608] I think they're really just trying to show that.

[1609] But seeing it was not great.

[1610] Yeah.

[1611] JFK, his worst thing was probably not even how he treated his wife.

[1612] There was a 60 -man's piece on, that woman who lost her virginity to him in the pool of the White House.

[1613] okay well we've said it all well we really have said it all we've said two fact checks worth of stuff and uh in a great exploration both morally and um historically there's no more facts for robin i really really enjoyed him and i i guess i'll say maybe this isn't nice to say but i i had a different expectation of what the interview was going to be and who he is and i was really like oh my gosh I like this person.

[1614] Exact same experience.

[1615] It reversed a lot of preconceived notions I had about who he was.

[1616] Yeah, same, same, same.

[1617] Dingles.

[1618] Same dinghies.

[1619] All right.

[1620] All right.

[1621] I love you.

[1622] I love you.

[1623] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcast.

[1624] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcast.

[1625] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.