Armchair Anonymous: Dating App

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.

[4] I'm Dan Shepard.

[5] I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[6] We have a fun epi.

[7] Today we're talking to people who have had a terrible dating experience on a dating app.

[8] Yeah.

[9] There's some juicy ones in here.

[10] I think this was uniquely interesting for me because I've never been on a dating app.

[11] Yeah.

[12] Again, I misused MySpace as I admitted to before.

[13] You used it as a dating app.

[14] I used it as a dating app.

[15] But that's not what it was.

[16] That's not.

[17] Well, was it?

[18] You were not old enough for MySpace, no. I knew people who were on it, but Earl, I mean, not really.

[19] Yeah, what age were you?

[20] What if you had found one of my friends?

[21] You were old enough for MySpace.

[22] I was on MySpace.

[23] Rob was all over my space.

[24] Oh, not for, yeah, not for that.

[25] Did you ever get a date out of Myspace?

[26] It was very natural.

[27] You go to someone's page, you'd notice they like the same movies and books as you.

[28] No, we were like young.

[29] How old were you, Rob?

[30] It was like 16 or 17.

[31] I was heavily on it in 2005.

[32] Okay, yeah.

[33] That was my junior year.

[34] Yeah, that was my senior year.

[35] Yeah, I guess in high school you'd want to date somebody in your high school.

[36] You're not like looking outside of your...

[37] It was bigger in like the music scene.

[38] though.

[39] That makes sense.

[40] Who's the coolest person you met on Myspace?

[41] A girl Katie Moe who I dated for You met her on MySpace.

[42] Yeah, yeah.

[43] Went to her page.

[44] Her favorite movie was Fletch.

[45] Ding, ding, ding.

[46] I want to say her favorite book was The Fountainhead because you could list your favorite book, your favorite movie.

[47] The ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

[48] That is exactly what happens on dating.

[49] Yeah, and then super cute.

[50] Dingle ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

[51] Doing bong.

[52] Yeah.

[53] Yeah, and then some chit -chat and then some paddywack.

[54] This episode is really fun.

[55] Each story's great.

[56] The final story, though, it's a mystery that we tried to solve.

[57] That was tremendously fun, trying to figure out what really happened in this situation.

[58] It's forensics.

[59] That's right.

[60] Okay, please enjoy dating app fiascos.

[61] All times come and go.

[62] Take them slow.

[63] You got to know.

[64] shiny.

[65] Hello.

[66] Hello, Monique.

[67] Hi, can you guys hear me?

[68] Wonderful.

[69] And what's great is your hair is covering your earbuds.

[70] So it seems like magic that we're hearing you.

[71] So tell us, what happened to you, Monique?

[72] Unfortunately, I have multiple stories I could have shared with you today when it comes to dating apps.

[73] I'm going to share the most recent one and the craziest one that's happened to me. So there's a bit of background.

[74] Of course.

[75] We need to to know how frequently you're on these apps.

[76] How long had you been single?

[77] We need a little foundation.

[78] Okay.

[79] Well, I'm 28.

[80] So dating apps have been around since I was 18.

[81] So I've been on and off them a lot when I have not been on the dating apps for a couple of months now because of what I'm about to tell you.

[82] Oh, oh, no. I thought maybe because you were in a relationship.

[83] Oh, no, I wish.

[84] Okay.

[85] Here we go.

[86] So here's the background.

[87] So I was on dating apps, of course.

[88] I matched with this guy and decided to meet up for a first date.

[89] So we did.

[90] It was fine.

[91] First dates off dating apps are always kind of weird and awkward and you have to meet them.

[92] Yeah, meeting them is hard.

[93] The whole swiping thing.

[94] I would, I think, get slot machine addicted to that experience.

[95] I think guys do.

[96] Yes.

[97] I actually do not enjoy it at all.

[98] So I go on this first date with a guy from the dating app, never met him before that.

[99] I didn't know anybody that knew him.

[100] it goes okay and we start dating casually and I start to actually like him.

[101] I think he's a really good guy.

[102] We've been dating for probably about two months at this point and then he tells me something really tragic and sad that he wants to be honest with me and he just wants to let me know that his dad has cancer and unfortunately they've given him about six months to live.

[103] So then shortly after that he tells me that he's going to have to go away for the summer.

[104] I live in Florida and his dad was going to go spend some time in Newport, Rhode Island, to live out his last days.

[105] And so I was like, of course, you should go be with your family.

[106] That's the most important thing.

[107] We'll just see what happens and see where things go.

[108] So he leaves and he goes up to Newport and we continue to talk every single day.

[109] And he tells me the progression of his dad and how he's doing with his health and he's working while he's up there.

[110] And eventually I go up to visit just one time for a couple of days.

[111] He asked me to be his girlfriend while I'm up there.

[112] It was actually really sweet.

[113] We had a great time.

[114] And then I come back to Florida and we continue to do a long -distance relationship for about four months.

[115] A few months into that, his dad's health is getting worse.

[116] And so then he tells me, hospice is called, like, it's time, tells me that he holds his dad's hand until his last breath.

[117] It's really sad.

[118] And of course, I'm heartbroken.

[119] I can't be there with him.

[120] And he's going through this awful thing.

[121] I feel so terrible.

[122] And then after that, he has to do all of the arrangements for the service and sell his dad's house up there.

[123] So he doesn't come back until about three months after his dad passes away.

[124] But when he does come back down to Florida where I live, we're great.

[125] Everything's great.

[126] We're happy together.

[127] And we are together for about a year.

[128] Oh, wow.

[129] Okay.

[130] And then a year into the relationship, my friend comes over one day and she tells me, hey, I need to talk to you about something.

[131] And of course, that's never something you really want to hear.

[132] So she tells me that she had a conversation with her future sister -in -law who worked at a restaurant, which was under, I'm not going to use his role name, John.

[133] So John's dad, he had a job that was pretty high up in this resort restaurant that's here in Palm Beach.

[134] And she worked at one of the restaurants.

[135] So she, of course, knew him.

[136] And my friend is talking to her one day and saying, oh, my gosh, how sad is it, you know, about John's dad passing away.

[137] And the sister -in -law goes, what are you talking about?

[138] My friend is like, you know, because he passed away, he had cancer.

[139] And she was like, I just saw him the other week.

[140] He is not dead.

[141] Oh, my gosh.

[142] Oh, this is dark.

[143] So then my friend, obviously the good friend she is, she starts doing all this investigating.

[144] I'm not in this conversation yet.

[145] She's done this separate from me, not even knowing what she was falling into.

[146] She's presenting you her findings.

[147] Yes.

[148] So then she shows me his dad's LinkedIn.

[149] He was active commenting two days prior to her showing me this.

[150] I'm freaking out.

[151] I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

[152] From there, things start to unravel.

[153] I obviously believe her.

[154] He's obviously alive.

[155] He's told all of my friends, all of my family, me made me believe for this year that his dad was dead.

[156] But he's alive.

[157] Wait, what is going on?

[158] So things start to unravel from here.

[159] I confront him and I tell him, your dad is alive and he's denying it to me. I've got great news for you.

[160] So I confront him and he's still telling me and denying.

[161] No, he's not.

[162] He's not alive.

[163] He's dead.

[164] Eventually he breaks and he says, okay, I lied.

[165] My dad is alive.

[166] Wait.

[167] So from there, I'm just trying to process what is going on.

[168] I start thinking back to every conversation we've ever had.

[169] And I start to realize almost every single thing this guy had ever told.

[170] me and my family and my friends was a lie.

[171] He lied about his job.

[172] So he didn't live with me, but sometimes he would stay at my house.

[173] He would wake up at five in the morning, put on his suit, leave for the day.

[174] This is like dirty John stuff.

[175] Yeah.

[176] I have no idea where he was.

[177] He didn't really have a job.

[178] He may have had like little things that he picked up here and there, but we don't know where he went every single day.

[179] So then eventually I get in touch with his mom.

[180] His mom has no idea that he's been doing this.

[181] His family has no idea he's been doing this.

[182] His dad had no idea he was dead.

[183] So then I just start to figure out he's a pathological liar.

[184] Wow.

[185] And he was lying about every single thing that he ever told me. And telling his family completely different lies from what he was telling me and my friends and family.

[186] He was keeping us completely separate out of the loop from each other in order to keep up these lies.

[187] People are not going to like this.

[188] but this is Moon Chow's and adjacent.

[189] It is.

[190] Wanting sympathy.

[191] That's what it was.

[192] I figured out all these lies he would tell.

[193] A lot of people would pass away or his dog died or someone got in a car rack.

[194] Looking back, he really fed off the sympathy from people.

[195] Creepy.

[196] So was he shocked when you wanted to end it after all this was revealed?

[197] No. He actually pretty much knew exactly what was going to happen after I found.

[198] found out.

[199] He, of course, still tried to get sympathy from me and his family, but he has not tried to reach out to me. He pretty much knew, this is done.

[200] I'm never talking to you again.

[201] Have you seen him?

[202] Well, you haven't been back on the dating app since then?

[203] I wonder if he's right back out there perpetuating the same scam.

[204] Honestly, that's what I'm scared of.

[205] I don't want some other girl to have to go through what I went through.

[206] And when I did talk to his mom, that was a question I asked.

[207] I said, did he do this to other girlfriends?

[208] And basically she said, yes, not to this extent.

[209] And that I got the worst of it.

[210] So she knew about it.

[211] That's like the mom and the patient.

[212] I don't like her.

[213] Okay.

[214] Are you watching the patient?

[215] No, I'm not.

[216] Well, there's a mom who protects the sociopath or psychopath.

[217] So have you bumped into him?

[218] Have you heard anything?

[219] Any updates?

[220] Have you heard he's dating anyone?

[221] Is he still in your area?

[222] Yeah.

[223] He actually lives at his mom's house 10 minutes down the road.

[224] for me. His dad's house is 10 minutes down the road for me, which that reminded me. There was one time when we were dating, I was at my local public shopping around and I walked by this old man and I was like, that looks a lot like him.

[225] Now, I never met his dad because he was away, but I'd seen pictures.

[226] And I was literally internally freaking out because I was like, that looks like his dad.

[227] And I didn't want to walked by his dad in the grocery store.

[228] Wow.

[229] What was his racket up in Rhode Island?

[230] Like, who was he staying with there?

[231] I found out why he was really up there.

[232] His dad was never actually up there.

[233] He told me some things truthfully in the end.

[234] I still think there's a lot of things that he wasn't honest about.

[235] He was working.

[236] He got a job up there for the summer.

[237] Lifeguard.

[238] Oh, okay.

[239] What was he doing up there doing now?

[240] He works on boats, yachting.

[241] That lends itself really well, Because you're meeting new people all the time.

[242] You're spending like a month at a time with people, like these longshoremen and these crabbers, all these guys.

[243] So they could just tell you any story they wanted about their life because you're only going to be with them for a month.

[244] You're upset, Monica.

[245] Yeah, because are we just chalking this up to he has a mental disorder?

[246] Or is there a reason?

[247] Like, I can't find a rational reason for doing any of this other than he's mentally ill. Yeah.

[248] I mean, I had never met anybody.

[249] like this that had done this to somebody, I didn't know people were capable of this and did things like this.

[250] So of course, they were red flags along the way.

[251] But again, I didn't know people did this.

[252] And I didn't want to be the asshole questioning someone's dad dying.

[253] It's out of my control now.

[254] It happened.

[255] It probably gave you crazy trust issues.

[256] Yeah, you're telling me. Oh, God, that sucks.

[257] That was one thing his mom tried to tell me. She was like, I know It's going to be hard, but you can still trust people.

[258] And I was like, okay.

[259] Just none of my sons.

[260] Just look elsewhere outside of my family circle.

[261] I can't if he said he was holding the dad's hand.

[262] Oh, it's so dark.

[263] It's dork.

[264] Yeah.

[265] Well, Monique, I'm sorry that happened to you, but what a thrilling story.

[266] I mean, thank God it didn't end in any kind of homicide.

[267] I mean, it was so dirty John.

[268] Very dirty Johnny.

[269] Yeah, that's the scary part is he knows everything about my life, my family, my friends.

[270] and I know nothing about him.

[271] But also, you know, warning out there, ladies or anybody else, do your background checks and trust your gut.

[272] That's what I would say.

[273] Good tip, good tip.

[274] Well, Monique, thank you so much for sharing that story with us.

[275] Yeah, thank you for having me on.

[276] I appreciate it.

[277] All right, great meeting you.

[278] Thanks so much for sharing your story.

[279] Yeah, nice to meet you.

[280] Okay, bye -bye.

[281] Wow, scary.

[282] That's a spooky story for Halloween.

[283] Yeah.

[284] It's way past Halloween.

[285] Still, next Halloween.

[286] Hi, you're in the closet.

[287] I'm in the closet.

[288] I take directions well.

[289] So many of you do.

[290] You must be listening to the show for Monica then, because I'm such a rule breaker.

[291] I can't be the appeal for you, Josh.

[292] I mean, I feel like it's cliche at this point for every guy that calls in to be like, hey, Doc, you're great and everything, but I'm really here for Monica, but I'm absolutely am.

[293] I was listening last week And she had the encounter on the street with a cute guy named Josh.

[294] And I'm kind of crestfallen thinking, I can't live up to that now.

[295] Josh, we literally just said, we're just talking.

[296] We know we're calling a Josh.

[297] And we literally just said, I wonder if it's Josh from the gas station.

[298] So all of our minds were in the same spot.

[299] Are you disappointed already that I'm not gas station, Josh?

[300] No, you're great.

[301] But just know, that's where I hang out.

[302] The gas station on Hillhurst and Los Angeles.

[303] You want to find me. What part of the country are you in, Josh?

[304] Dallas.

[305] Okay.

[306] oil big hair rodeo all of that that's my life in a nutshell but now i listen to your buddy gordon every day on the radio that's kind of how i got introduced to your podcast when y 'all did the live show with him we love gordon he is the greatest isn't he's awesome everybody in dallas loves him okay so this is about dating apps and your experience on one so josh tell us what happened okay i'm going to try to keep it tight because it spans a long period of time in a couple of states Oh.

[307] So this started around the end of 2019.

[308] Met a lovely young lady on Hinge, and we started dating kind of right before the end of the year.

[309] Hey, because I've been off the market for 20 ,000 years, Hinge is what level of hookup?

[310] I don't know the ranking.

[311] Like, some are for S -time and some are for relationships.

[312] Yeah, the cliche is that Tinder is for hookups.

[313] Hinge and Bumble seem to be the top two that people prefer.

[314] and they seem to be largely legit.

[315] There's very few robots or scams going on.

[316] Okay.

[317] Okay, great.

[318] I just want to just curious what you were shopping for.

[319] This was a legit seeking a relationship thing.

[320] I wasn't just trying to bang it out and move on.

[321] So we date for about three great months, no red flags.

[322] And then one night, it's a Friday night, we're laying in bed.

[323] And at some point, she starts crying kind of randomly.

[324] I'm thinking, okay, hey, what's going on?

[325] Let's talk about it.

[326] She kind of says some story about, you know, I have this ex and he's been making my life difficult and all that.

[327] And so, you know, it's still early in the relationship stage.

[328] We haven't had really that talk about exes or anything like that.

[329] But I'm saying if you want to talk about it, if there's anything I can do, I'm here.

[330] Let's talk it out.

[331] And she says, no, no big deal.

[332] I'll deal with it.

[333] Don't worry about it.

[334] So, okay, we go to bed.

[335] And then the next night, Saturday night, we go see a movie.

[336] And she's kind of, you know, a little distant, a little quiet, you can tell.

[337] And on the way home from the movie, she's saying, you know, I'm not feeling great.

[338] I just want to stay at my place tonight.

[339] Okay, cool.

[340] So I drop her off, hope you're feeling better, and I go home.

[341] Sunday morning, I wake up, I send a quick text, hey, how you doing?

[342] Hope you're feeling better.

[343] Let me know.

[344] Very gentlemanly.

[345] I try to be.

[346] Good manners.

[347] So far, so good.

[348] Yeah, all day goes by, I don't hear anything.

[349] And then sometime in the evening I get a text from her, and all it says is, if you know him or if you're a part of this, I'm going to be really upset.

[350] I thought I could trust you.

[351] Oh, what?

[352] Okay.

[353] I think it's a reference to the ex -boyfriend.

[354] You know, I'm dumbfounded.

[355] I don't know who this person is.

[356] I'm definitely not part of any sort of conspiracy with him.

[357] So my response, again, is, hey, you know, I don't know who he is.

[358] I'm not involved in anything.

[359] Again, if you want to talk, whatever you're dealing with right now, let me know.

[360] And don't really get any kind of response.

[361] And over the next few days, you get just sort of sporadic messages that kind of allude back to the same whatever she's dealing with and kind of just drops off.

[362] And so after a couple of days of trying, it's kind of, okay, well, That was over.

[363] It was a nice three months.

[364] I wish you well.

[365] Back on the hinge, we go.

[366] There you go.

[367] Fire it back up.

[368] If we're on timeline now, we're March of 2020.

[369] So we're right when COVID's kind of peeking its head up and we're all really not sure what's going on with it.

[370] But I had been trying to make a move for a little while.

[371] I really wanted to get out of Dallas.

[372] I wanted to get out of Texas for at least a little part of my life.

[373] And so instead of trying to make that move right away because of COVID and everything, I took a job down in Austin.

[374] So I moved to Austin.

[375] By the way, were y 'all at Cota yesterday?

[376] Not this year.

[377] Not this year.

[378] You missed Brad Pitt.

[379] Sorry about that.

[380] Well, he was all over my telecast.

[381] Believe me, I got a lot of close -ups.

[382] I think he's got new highlights.

[383] They look great.

[384] Really?

[385] Was he wearing skirts?

[386] No skirts.

[387] Day one, practice one, crazy baggy pants.

[388] Like my harem pants.

[389] Yeah, he's into that.

[390] I thought I might be on top of this.

[391] Okay.

[392] So I make the plans to move to Austin.

[393] And about a week and a half before I'm moving, I get a text from her saying, hey, can I come by?

[394] I just want to apologize.

[395] Okay, fine.

[396] So she swings by and gives a story about, you know, I'm sorry, I do this.

[397] I freak out.

[398] I push people away.

[399] I don't even know if there was an ex -boyfriend.

[400] I don't know what she was actually dealing with, but she kind of just said, you know, I want to apologize for how things kind of blew up there.

[401] So I said, I appreciate the apology.

[402] She asked, is it too late?

[403] Do you want to give things a second chance here?

[404] And I'm saying, well, there's a huge trust issue here now.

[405] I don't really know what's going on with you.

[406] I tried to be there.

[407] I'm not really interested in that period besides the fact I'm moving to Austin next week.

[408] So no harm, no foul there.

[409] I moved to Austin.

[410] And again, this is right when COVID's really hitting.

[411] Everything is full lockdown.

[412] So you're basically just sitting inside doing nothing all day, every day.

[413] And like you did in COVID, you every once in a while reach out and check up on friends.

[414] I've always been able to stay friends with X's.

[415] Once a month or so, we would text and every once in a while she would bring up the subject of do you want to give it another chance?

[416] And again, I'm going back to a huge trust issue here that I don't think is recoverable.

[417] And besides that, I have no interest in a long distance relationship.

[418] And then a few months later, a firm that I had been talking to in Denver offered me a job.

[419] I'm making the plans to move out there.

[420] I talk with her a little bit one time and mentioned that I'm moving to Denver.

[421] At that point, she's kind of saying, well, if that's the way it is, I understand, but I don't think we should talk anymore.

[422] Don't even want to continue a friendship.

[423] Fantastic.

[424] Totally respect that.

[425] you the best.

[426] And so now it's September.

[427] And I moved to Denver.

[428] And I'm getting set up there.

[429] Everything's great.

[430] We got a fresh start.

[431] About a month or so after I move to Denver, I get a random text from her.

[432] And it starts off by saying, hey, don't think I'm stalking you, but I'm moving to Denver.

[433] Oh, okay.

[434] Well, it's going to be hard to not think that.

[435] Yeah, that's a weird way to start a sentence, especially, you know, just if you're not stalking somebody.

[436] So I'm a little weirded out.

[437] The whole time we did date, I talked about wanting to move to Colorado.

[438] She never mentioned wanting to move out there.

[439] She's got no family and friends that I know of out there.

[440] And besides that, she had just started her own business in our hometown.

[441] So there's no conceivable reason for you to be moving out here.

[442] I never told her where I'm living anything like that.

[443] I think the most I ever said was that I got a place near the ballpark.

[444] I was like, oh, cool, where did you get a place?

[445] And the only thing she sends back is near the ballpark with a little smiley face emoji thing on that.

[446] So it's a little creepier.

[447] And she sends some cross streets.

[448] I get on Google Maps to look at that because I don't know the city that well.

[449] And it's about two blocks away from my apartment.

[450] So now I'm very, very weirded out because I'm possibly going to run into this person at the grocery store.

[451] I walk right past that route when I'm going to work.

[452] My fresh start is suddenly a lot less fresh.

[453] And I don't really hear anything from her after that for a little while.

[454] And I'm thinking, okay, cool.

[455] It's a little bit weird when I'm walking around because everyone's all looking over your shoulder.

[456] But for the most part, I think maybe we're good.

[457] Cut to the Friday before the Super Bowl in February.

[458] And I'm walking back from work.

[459] I get to my building and I start walking in.

[460] And I see somebody in the office picking up a bunch of boxes.

[461] Kind of looks familiar.

[462] It's February in Denver.

[463] You've got a coat, a hat.

[464] You're still masked up from COVID, so you can't really be sure.

[465] I go inside, put my bags down, get my dog, bring him back outside and let him go pee.

[466] And as I'm walking back by the office, again, I kind of take another peek, and it really looks like her.

[467] I'm starting to get more and more freaked out.

[468] I go let the dog pee, come back inside.

[469] By now, this person is waiting on the elevator.

[470] And it's almost definitely her.

[471] I let her go up in the elevator.

[472] wait, then I go through there and go put my dog in the apartment.

[473] I come back down to the apartment office and I asked the lady working there, said, you know, hey, I've got a really weird question.

[474] I understand that you have to, you know, look out for the privacy of your tenants and all that, but I'm 99 % sure I just saw an ex of mine picking up boxes like she's moving in here.

[475] And I said, if I just tell you her name, can you confirm if she lives here or not?

[476] Lady says, sure.

[477] And so I tell the name and she goes, oh yeah, she was just here.

[478] And so now it's just Holy shit, this person has moved halfway across the country and is not two blocks away.

[479] Next stop is your apartment.

[480] She's one floor below me in my building.

[481] Oh, wow.

[482] The lady in the office said, yeah, it was really weird.

[483] She just called kind of back in November and said, I need an apartment in that building, didn't really tour the place or anything like that.

[484] Oh.

[485] And she basically kind of did a lease online, I guess, and she's just now moving in.

[486] So she kind of leased it for a couple of months before she moved in.

[487] Oh, weird.

[488] I have no idea how she found out where I live exactly.

[489] That's Friday.

[490] I don't hear anything from her all weekend.

[491] I'm still just kind of trying to lay low.

[492] And then I pulled up a screenshot today so I can have accuracy.

[493] I'm scared.

[494] Probably Wednesday.

[495] I wake up in the morning.

[496] I've got several missed calls around midnight from her.

[497] And a couple of text messages.

[498] The first one just says, come here like it's a booty call or something.

[499] Oh, my God.

[500] So she knows you know she lives there.

[501] Clearly.

[502] I think she probably had to see me see her at the elevator.

[503] Yeah.

[504] So, yeah, the first one says, come here.

[505] The second one says, are you married?

[506] And this person dated me less than a year ago.

[507] Yeah.

[508] She clearly knows I'm not married.

[509] By the way, I would have said yes.

[510] Yeah, right.

[511] I've got married since we last saw each other.

[512] And got married the next day.

[513] I watch enough dateline that I know you kind of got to get these things on record, which, by the way, the Friday I saw her.

[514] That night, I'm watching Dateline.

[515] And the episode is an ex -girlfriend murders her boyfriend in Denver.

[516] And so I'm taking this is way too sim, way too much of like Winston.

[517] I don't need that in my life.

[518] But anyway, so the text message I send her is, please stop.

[519] I moved out here for a fresh start.

[520] I don't know why you're here, but we broke up a year ago, and it's past time to move on.

[521] I wish you will, but I don't want any more contact.

[522] Direct.

[523] Yeah.

[524] Yeah.

[525] She sends back, I agree.

[526] I wish you well, too, which I'm dubious of because she's done the I don't want to talk any more thing before.

[527] Very next day, text message saying, hey, do you have Ryan's number by any chance?

[528] Also, are you stalking me, L -O -L?

[529] No. What?

[530] Okay, so this person's really unhinged.

[531] Ding, ding, ding, hinged.

[532] Oh, yeah, hinged.

[533] Wow.

[534] Did you not detect any of that prior to the first night she woke up crying?

[535] She acted completely normal prior to all this.

[536] Completely normal.

[537] Because she's got an alternate reality she's ducking in and out of, like an espionage film.

[538] At this point, I don't know who any of these people she's asking me if they're numbers for.

[539] But at the time we were dating, I didn't meet any of her friends.

[540] She didn't meet any of my friends.

[541] I don't know who Ryan is.

[542] Oh, my God.

[543] She says, do you have Ryan's number by any chance?

[544] If not, I'll ask Justin or James.

[545] I have no idea who any of these three people are right.

[546] Oh, my God.

[547] This is so, so fucked up.

[548] Oh, my God.

[549] Yeah.

[550] You know, at this point, I've got my part on record saying, hey, please leave me alone.

[551] I wish you the best.

[552] I don't want you to talk to me anymore.

[553] I don't need anything else.

[554] So at that point, I just block all numbers I have in contact and all that.

[555] But I'm still sitting here, stuck in Denver with this person living in my building and feeling very uncomfortable.

[556] At that point, a friend had already put me up for a job back home in Texas.

[557] and I just had a couple of interviews for it.

[558] So I got back home and there's really been no issue since.

[559] To your knowledge, she stayed in Denver, or we hope?

[560] No, no, that's a very good question because one day, after I had made arrangements, I talked to the people in the apartment office and they were very, very cool with the situation.

[561] One day I'm coming back home from work, go through the same door, throw a wave to the lady in the office and she comes up.

[562] The elevator opens, she gets on the elevator with me and she said, hey, have you told anybody you're moving back home?

[563] And I said, well, I told friends and family.

[564] And she's like, well, she's moving home too.

[565] Oh, boy.

[566] Are you serious?

[567] Oh my God.

[568] She was actually worried that that person was transferring to the same property of theirs in Dallas that I was.

[569] It wasn't.

[570] It was pretty far apart.

[571] But she definitely did move back to Dallas almost immediately after that little plan failed to reignite the flame.

[572] How long ago was this?

[573] How long have you been back in Dallas?

[574] February of 21 was.

[575] when it all really kind of started, I moved back around March, April of that year.

[576] So I've been back about 18 months.

[577] Okay.

[578] She's going to, I feel like she's going to pop up on the screen right now, but I'm really scared of her.

[579] No, like I said, I haven't really had any kind of issues since then.

[580] She at one point tried to add me on Instagram and again, blocked all that.

[581] But I think hopefully she finally got the message.

[582] The cardinal rule with Stalkers, right, is that you can't communicate with them at all.

[583] That no matter what you say to them, they can twist it into something encouraging and confirming to their story oh my god what a scary story i'm glad that you are with us to this day that would fucking scare the shit out of me yeah it was scary it is a full dateline episode minus the stabbing or the poisoning as unlucky as you were i hope you also feel lucky as weird as it was and as scary as it was i think i got out of it pretty unscathed if there is contact made again i hope you will reach out so we can do a follow -up yeah i don't anticipate that but I'll keep you posted.

[584] Okay, please do.

[585] Good luck.

[586] Great meeting you, Josh.

[587] I'm glad you're back home, safe.

[588] I'm going to get out of the closet now, but it was great meeting you both.

[589] Bye.

[590] All right.

[591] Take care, Josh.

[592] See y 'all.

[593] What's up, guys?

[594] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[595] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[596] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[597] Okay, every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[598] And I don't mean just friends.

[599] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica, Fox.

[600] The list goes on.

[601] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[602] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[603] We've all been there.

[604] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[605] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[606] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[607] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[608] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[609] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[610] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[611] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[612] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[613] Have you ever been stocked?

[614] Not like a random fan, but I've had girlfriends that, yeah, drove by my apartment.

[615] We did weird shit.

[616] All right, Molly, ready, if you guys are.

[617] Okay.

[618] Let me should have candies in here.

[619] You want candies?

[620] Yeah.

[621] We should get some worthers.

[622] I love a worthless.

[623] I do too.

[624] I have a hard time stop being eating them, though.

[625] Hello.

[626] Hi.

[627] Can you guys hear me okay?

[628] Oh, beautifully.

[629] Molly.

[630] Hi.

[631] Can I say something that I hope you'll like?

[632] Please.

[633] You look like the American girl doll Molly.

[634] Okay.

[635] That's the best thing I could possibly hear because you'll never believe what my Halloween costume is this year.

[636] And my best friend is being Samantha.

[637] I've got the glasses.

[638] I have the beret.

[639] I'm going to braid my hair.

[640] That's a great Halloween costume.

[641] Oh, my God.

[642] I want to do that.

[643] You guys are fun that you both knew what was going on.

[644] Oh, yes.

[645] Oh, yes, amazing.

[646] Okay, so you owned the Molly, I am saying?

[647] No, I had Samantha.

[648] You also look a little like Samantha.

[649] Now I'm getting confused.

[650] You look like a doll, basically.

[651] I think that is what I'm saying.

[652] Conventionally is a compliment, right?

[653] It's definitely a compliment.

[654] Samantha was definitely the cool one and, like, kind of the hot one that everyone wanted to be.

[655] Like, Molly was sort of the nerd, but obviously because it was my name, I got all the Molly stuff.

[656] Aren't they children?

[657] Yeah, they're girls.

[658] The stories were about.

[659] Like eight -year -olds, right?

[660] Yeah, like 10 or 11, probably.

[661] But one was hot and sexy.

[662] One was like a party animal.

[663] The other one was a bookworm.

[664] To me, as a fellow eight -year -old, I was kind of like, that's who you want to be.

[665] You want to be Samantha.

[666] So maybe popular more than hot.

[667] But like beautiful.

[668] All their faces were actually the same doll.

[669] Oh, they were just different hair.

[670] They just changed their hair and like gave Molly glasses.

[671] And they all had historical time period outfits.

[672] Like they're all from a different time period.

[673] And was she a flapper girl this eight -year -old?

[674] No, she was Victorian or something.

[675] Yeah, I think early 1900s had a very nice dress.

[676] There's a whole world I need to dive into American Doll.

[677] I'm really glad my daughters aren't into it because aren't they like $500 a pop?

[678] I got your daughter, both of them, an American Girl doll for Christmas a couple of years ago.

[679] I do remember that.

[680] Well, thanks for doing that.

[681] Somehow that didn't end up with me at the Mall.

[682] Oh, man, anyway.

[683] Okay.

[684] Molly, Molly, Molly.

[685] We're not here to talk about dolls.

[686] We're here to talk about you and your date.

[687] dating history as it applies to an app.

[688] Yeah, so I've had several interesting tender dates in my time.

[689] Are you in the South somewhere?

[690] Well, I'm originally from West Virginia, but I actually just a couple months ago moved to Austin, Texas.

[691] So I think that qualifies as the South.

[692] So you're down in Austin, and is that where most of this dating's happened?

[693] No, this tender dating I was doing was taking place in my college town.

[694] So this date was, I think, around 2015.

[695] I was in the summer between my sophomore and junior year of college, kind of in a Midwestern, super tiny college town.

[696] And I was living on my own for the first time.

[697] And in the summer, is there because it's just a college town, stuff like really clears out.

[698] There's not a lot going on.

[699] Feels long -laying.

[700] Yeah, my roommate was back with her family for the summer.

[701] But I just wanted to be in my new house.

[702] I was so excited.

[703] So to kill a lot of the free time, I did some swiping.

[704] Yeah, yeah.

[705] That's great.

[706] So eventually I matched with this guy, seemed cute.

[707] I was pretty sure we had a mutual friend in common.

[708] So we decided to meet up after chatting on the app for a little bit.

[709] We decided the first part of this date was going to be a hike, which I'm not much of a hiker.

[710] I'm like a real indoor girl, not really my thing.

[711] But he had gone on and on about how he was this like big outdoorsman and seemed really into it.

[712] It was really excited.

[713] So I was like, okay, let's go do this hike.

[714] So we do the hike.

[715] It's fine.

[716] we get to the top, and he is like, okay, I'm an Eagle Scout.

[717] I love the outdoors.

[718] I'm going to make a fire and we can watch the sunset.

[719] And I'm like, okay, that sounds nice.

[720] And he spends about 30 minutes trying to make a fire unsuccessfully and is progressively getting more and more kind of frustrated.

[721] I don't really care.

[722] It's summer.

[723] I'm not cold.

[724] I don't need a fire.

[725] I didn't ask for a fire.

[726] I think to make an analogy, like we have fire.

[727] We got heat.

[728] It'd be like him going like, I'm going to find us a fresh water well.

[729] We got a faucet.

[730] Yeah, it felt just kind of extra, not needed.

[731] So he eventually gives up and we go, okay, how about instead let's go to a bar, get some drinks.

[732] Yeah, that sounds a lot more normally.

[733] Let's just join the new, this current century.

[734] Yeah, what should we do?

[735] Should we build a fire and start it by hand or let's go get fucked up at a bar in town?

[736] He must have picked up on my historical American Girl doll vibes.

[737] And she's like, she wants old tiny.

[738] She needs me to build her fire.

[739] Yeah, okay, okay, that makes sense.

[740] So we move on and we go to the local, very authentic, very divey biker bar, which was an interesting choice because I don't really know if either of us, like, had biker energy.

[741] You're not giving off any.

[742] BBE, big biker energy.

[743] Yeah, it had none of that.

[744] And I am going to go ahead and say he didn't either really.

[745] So we really kind of stuck out in this place.

[746] And you're 20 years old, right?

[747] Right.

[748] So they're not carding there.

[749] You're currently 20.

[750] and you currently look about 20.

[751] So I can only backdate you and imagine you look 14 when you're in this bar and they were serving you.

[752] That's maybe a fair assessment.

[753] So the illegal vodka crayons are pretty free -flowing.

[754] I'm like starting to get pretty drunk and we're kind of doing the normal first date conversation type stuff.

[755] And I'm starting to get the feeling like, you know, I don't think this is really a connection.

[756] But I'm here.

[757] We're hanging out.

[758] I got drinks.

[759] we'll just wait and wrap up the night and then I'll head home.

[760] So the conversation's kind of starting to run out and I'm thinking it's about that time.

[761] And he goes, hey, actually, would you like to get out of here and see something really cool?

[762] Never go to a second location.

[763] I mean, in this case, it was already the second location.

[764] Yeah, we're going to a seventh or eighth location.

[765] Yeah, we're way too many locations too deep for sure.

[766] But I kind of try to press a little bit.

[767] I'm like, where are we going?

[768] Like, what's the cool thing?

[769] And he's basically like, it's a surprise.

[770] It's not far.

[771] Let's just head out of here and you'll see.

[772] This feels manipulative.

[773] I know.

[774] Yeah, I don't like it.

[775] So we walk outside of the bar.

[776] Streets are dead.

[777] Nobody's around.

[778] It's the summer.

[779] It's just us two out on the street.

[780] So we walk down a couple blocks and we stop at a street corner.

[781] And before I can really ask any questions, he bends down and he starts to remove the manhole cover.

[782] No. Off the ground and open up a hole into the ground.

[783] Okay, I'm back, just for the record.

[784] No, I'm into this guy.

[785] Yeah, now I'm starting to like him again.

[786] Okay.

[787] So the hole is open into the earth.

[788] This guy's fun.

[789] No. I am like drunk and confused, and I can't even like fully really put a sentence together about it.

[790] I think I've overstimulated.

[791] I'm overserved.

[792] I'm all of it.

[793] And I'm kind of like, what's happening here?

[794] He just sort of gestures for me to like get into the manhole.

[795] No. Go under the streets.

[796] So I'm like, what do you mean?

[797] Like, get in.

[798] And he goes, well, I have memorized all the city blueprints of the underground sewer and steam systems.

[799] And there's some really cool spots down here.

[800] And I'd like to show you around.

[801] If you're up for it, I'd love to murder you down here.

[802] Oh, my God.

[803] This is a Dahmer situation.

[804] But that's not even occurring to me in this moment.

[805] I wish I could explain the choice I'm about to make in this story.

[806] Oh, no. She's here, Monica.

[807] No, she's what those.

[808] You're dead.

[809] You're a ghost story.

[810] You should have been in the stuck episode, but continue.

[811] I know.

[812] I just start climbing down the ladder.

[813] And I don't feel scared like he's making me get in here.

[814] But I'm also not like excited.

[815] Like I want to check it out.

[816] I'm just sort of like the only logical choice is this guy opened up the manhole.

[817] And like now I have to get in it.

[818] Yeah, yeah.

[819] So we're climbing down and he climbs down after me. As I'm watching him close, the manhole cover over top of us, that's when it kind of clicked.

[820] If I were stuck down here for a minute, I don't know if underground is the first place people are going to come looking for me. This might have not been the best choice in the world.

[821] What's the lighting situation down there?

[822] Is it pitch black?

[823] It's not pitch black, but it's pretty dark.

[824] Now I'm in it.

[825] I'm along for the tour.

[826] And I'm guessing he's throwing off very PG vibes.

[827] So is that why you're kind of like, oh, this kid's just a nerd?

[828] Very much.

[829] There was like no sexual energy or chemistry happening.

[830] So we're walking through the tunnels of this underground manhole sewer system.

[831] And as we're walking, there are pipes on the sides of the walls.

[832] So, like, periodically, I'm getting shot in the face with hot steam.

[833] It's like going into my eyes and into my mouth.

[834] Ew.

[835] Rob's laughing so hard.

[836] I feel like it's Rob that did this.

[837] Yeah, was the guy's name Rob?

[838] Was the small Midwestern City, Chicago?

[839] If it was Rob, like, we could have still been down there.

[840] Who knows?

[841] But tragically, it wasn't.

[842] So, like, I'm drunk.

[843] I've got hot steam.

[844] in my mouth.

[845] It's really small.

[846] I'm starting to get kind of a little more panicked.

[847] And then suddenly one side of the wall sort of opens up into this little nook area.

[848] There's kind of like a cutout in the wall, sort of like cave scary breakfast nook vibes.

[849] And he stops.

[850] He says, will you marry me?

[851] Oh my God.

[852] He was like, this is, you know, my favorite spot down here.

[853] Sometimes I come down here to like relax and hang.

[854] And so I'm looking and it's dark.

[855] And he's, got his phone out.

[856] This is the guy with the cat girlfriend.

[857] David.

[858] Yeah.

[859] Oh, no. We're all making predictions about who we think this person is.

[860] People in our lives we thought this could be.

[861] Okay.

[862] So we're looking at the cave nook and I noticed that there's a blanket and like a camping lantern and like a stack of books on the ground.

[863] I now would imagine he's living here.

[864] It was very like this person is a teenage mutant ninja turtle.

[865] This is their home.

[866] A real life mutant ninja.

[867] You're a doll.

[868] He's a TMJ, whatever it is.

[869] Wow.

[870] Oh, my God.

[871] Okay.

[872] Okay.

[873] At that point, I kind of realized I need to extract myself from this situation.

[874] He's kind of seeming like he's wanting me to lay down on the blanket by the lamplight and stuff.

[875] He thinks is romantic.

[876] Yeah.

[877] And I am not feeling a similar way.

[878] No. I was like, you know, that's really cool.

[879] It looks like a fun place to hang.

[880] But I'm actually Feeling a little claustrophobic.

[881] I'm a little nauseous from all the hot steam.

[882] I think I need to maybe head back up above ground.

[883] To this guy's credit, he was totally chill immediately.

[884] Like, okay, no worries.

[885] We'll head back out.

[886] I know my way out of here.

[887] So we take off.

[888] Eventually, we come up on another ladder and it's like, okay, we're here.

[889] Like, I am going to make it out of here.

[890] And we climb back up.

[891] He goes first and moves the next manhole cover out of the way.

[892] I come up above ground and I realize we're on the complete opposite.

[893] end of town.

[894] We had walked underneath in these tunnels through all the bars in town, half the campus.

[895] I mean, it's a small town, but we've traveled a lot of it.

[896] So I come up feeling a little disoriented, a little confused about what's just happened.

[897] And I just go, thanks.

[898] That was interesting.

[899] And he was like, yeah, no problem.

[900] And then we walked off into the night.

[901] I never saw him again.

[902] I never spoke to him again.

[903] And then I found out after the fact, I'm pretty sure.

[904] I definitely could have been expelled from my university if we'd been caught down there.

[905] And I think it was also maybe felony trespassing because it was like city, municipal property down there.

[906] Oh.

[907] You're definitely not supposed to be down there.

[908] So glad I lived to tell the tale.

[909] I wonder if he still visits his little nook sometimes and gets nostalgic.

[910] I think he's dead.

[911] I wonder how many dates he took down there.

[912] And if ever, well, let's be the best case scenario.

[913] Someone needs to go check the no, because what if there's dead people down there?

[914] That's one option.

[915] That's worst case scenario i was going to go best case scenario okay i like to think he took some gal down there she looked at that nook and she was like oh my god i love it and excitedly jumped on the sleeping bag and grabbed an old book off the shelf let's just hope he ran into another subterranean file teenage teen brand yeah to a girl teenage mutant turtle i don't know if they have girl turtles or not wow i do i do have the feeling I wasn't the first person he'd shown it to.

[916] Basically, I think because of how he reacted to me being like I got to go.

[917] It seemed like that was something he had heard before.

[918] Right.

[919] He'd already been down this.

[920] He had found out that objecting was futile.

[921] When someone said that they were pretty serious.

[922] Yeah.

[923] But I agree.

[924] I hope he found somebody that liked it.

[925] Like I said, I didn't weirdly at any point ever feel that threatened, even though I certainly should have.

[926] It might have had something to do with the drinking.

[927] But again, it sounds like he had a real PG vibe.

[928] That doesn't mean, though.

[929] It doesn't mean that there aren't killers.

[930] You're right.

[931] That's usually the point I make.

[932] All these PG guys you trust, here I come X -rated, but I'm safe.

[933] True.

[934] Okay.

[935] I hope he's happy out there somewhere, wherever he is.

[936] Well, Molly, thanks so much you're telling us.

[937] That was an absolute treat.

[938] I'm glad you're alive.

[939] Yeah, me too.

[940] Thank you so much for letting me come talk to you guys.

[941] I just love every single show you guys put out.

[942] And Dax, I have to let you know you were one of my very first crushes.

[943] I saw you in without a paddle.

[944] And I was like, what am I feeling?

[945] Who's that big time?

[946] Oh, my God.

[947] You're making me so happy.

[948] No one ever says that to me. That may be the first time someone said that.

[949] No, it's so true.

[950] I remember, like, where I was when I watched that movie for the first time and feeling like, who is that guy?

[951] And it was like, pre -martphone.

[952] So it was like, how do I find out who that was?

[953] Oh, my God.

[954] That's so flattering.

[955] You know, I'm going to build you a little campfire.

[956] And I'm not going to bring a starter strip.

[957] I'm not going to have.

[958] I forgot about that part.

[959] Oh, my God.

[960] Yeah, I'm going to do it by hand, just like Jake did.

[961] What a day.

[962] No, I guess it was Leonardo.

[963] It was the guy's thing.

[964] God bless you.

[965] No wonder you ended up on a date under the city.

[966] Well, Molly, thank you so much.

[967] It was so fun talking to you.

[968] Thank you so much.

[969] Hope you guys have a great day.

[970] Bye.

[971] I can't believe she almost got murdered.

[972] There are bodies down there.

[973] There are bodies.

[974] I think he was like arrested development, I hope.

[975] He had a ton of like David.

[976] I don't think David's taken any girls into that I know of, although he is pretty secretive.

[977] He probably liked that.

[978] We just don't know what he's doing.

[979] He probably would like that.

[980] You're right, but I think he has the wherewithal to not.

[981] But he could never make a fire with no matches.

[982] He can't do it.

[983] He actually does sound like David.

[984] He can't make a fire with no match?

[985] No, he can't.

[986] That guy couldn't make a fire.

[987] Well, yeah, I guess you're right.

[988] That guy couldn't either.

[989] I guess they're identical.

[990] Okay, let's talk to Emily.

[991] Can you hear us?

[992] I can.

[993] Oh, wonderful.

[994] In the closet.

[995] I am in my closet.

[996] You know what?

[997] You're a taskmaster.

[998] Oh.

[999] You've got all these people in their closet.

[1000] We need it.

[1001] Okay.

[1002] Do you want to send every single person a kit?

[1003] No. I can't afford that.

[1004] Then you need them in the closet.

[1005] That's right.

[1006] Emily, where are you?

[1007] other than the obvious your closet or your mom's closet or some female's closet or some maybe non -female this is my closet my fiance has the closet in the office because it's so small so i claimed the master bedroom closet good for you should i am in minneapolis minnesota oh we love minneapolis we had a wonderful live show there nice people yeah all right so you said fiance so i'm presuming that this story doesn't involve him no so what happened Tell us about it.

[1008] Yeah, so I did get the green light from my fiance to tell this story.

[1009] I made sure he wouldn't be too embarrassed.

[1010] So we're good here.

[1011] I was on Bumble, the dating app.

[1012] This was right when I had moved to Minneapolis, so quite some years ago, and I matched with this guy.

[1013] And I had just gotten out of a serious relationship about six months prior, so I was dabbling in the dating app scene a little bit.

[1014] Was the Bumble novel approach that the women chose or something?

[1015] Do I have that right?

[1016] Yeah.

[1017] So the women actually get to say something first.

[1018] And Tinder, anybody can do anything, which I tried to stay off Tinder because sometimes you would get some unsolicited pictures.

[1019] So I was on Bumble.

[1020] I matched with this guy and I hadn't had very much luck quite yet.

[1021] Like I said, all my dates had been flops.

[1022] People were just kind of weird.

[1023] Just wasn't working out for me. So I matched with a guy, talked for a couple days on the app.

[1024] He seemed normal.

[1025] They always do.

[1026] Exactly.

[1027] I was working a waitressing job at the time.

[1028] So I was working a lot of nights and weekends.

[1029] So it was a a little difficult for me to get out on dates, but I made sure to do it if I was interested.

[1030] So when this guy and I were talking, I had actually had to work for the next like four nights.

[1031] So I just wasn't available to get together.

[1032] He seemed cool with it.

[1033] He was totally fine.

[1034] Kept chatting throughout the night.

[1035] I ended up going to work.

[1036] My coworkers knew everything about it and all about all of my fun dates just because that's what you do in the service industry.

[1037] You gossip, you chat.

[1038] So that night, I was chatting with him and he had brought up that he was going to make some dinner.

[1039] And I just threw out there, like, oh, man, I'm so hungry.

[1040] I would die for some Chipotle right now.

[1041] Well, he ended up messaging me like 20 minutes later and being like, what's your Chipotle order?

[1042] Amazing.

[1043] I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm getting some Chipotle.

[1044] Sents in my order.

[1045] Really quick, Emily, I didn't know if that was a red flag or encouraging.

[1046] For me, that's a red flag.

[1047] Oh, it's a red, I think it's sweet.

[1048] It is.

[1049] So that's one way you could go.

[1050] Yeah, okay, great.

[1051] I just, when you said that, I'm like, for me, I'd be like, oh, that's a big job.

[1052] gesture.

[1053] We haven't had a coffee yet.

[1054] Oh, you think it was too fast.

[1055] A little too quick.

[1056] Okay.

[1057] I think if we wouldn't have been chatting so much, I would have thought it was weird, but he seemed great and we were chatting.

[1058] So it was fine.

[1059] He ended up showing up to my work, bringing the Chipotle order.

[1060] This was the first time we were going to see each other in person.

[1061] And he was super nice.

[1062] Looked exactly like the pictures.

[1063] We had chemistry in person.

[1064] I was feeling it.

[1065] Great.

[1066] Great.

[1067] I ate the Chipotle, but I couldn't hang out with him too long because I am working.

[1068] So he got a drink at the bar I was working at and then went home.

[1069] It ended up slowing way down at the restaurant I was working, so I got cut a little bit earlier than usual.

[1070] Since he had brought me the Chipotle, I decided, hey, why not text him and see if he maybe wants to meet up for a drink or something like that tonight?

[1071] And then I remembered my roommate was going out of town that night and she would not be home.

[1072] Oh, wow.

[1073] Okay.

[1074] Yeah, I'm with you.

[1075] We like this.

[1076] This is where my head would be.

[1077] if I got cut early.

[1078] And I had just been out of the game for so long.

[1079] It had been six months since anything intimate happened to me at all, even a kiss.

[1080] So I was just kind of like...

[1081] You were DTF.

[1082] I was.

[1083] And I sent him that message.

[1084] And of course, being a boy in his 20s, he was like, sure.

[1085] Where and when?

[1086] Yep.

[1087] Send me your address.

[1088] So I did all the safe things.

[1089] I let my girlfriends know what was happening.

[1090] They were going to check on me in like a couple of hours.

[1091] I was being smart.

[1092] By the time I got back to my apartment, I decided, hey, I'm just going to take a couple shots of tequila to loosen up.

[1093] So I decided to really go for it and I lit a bunch of candles and I put on an outfit.

[1094] Okay.

[1095] This guy hit the lottery.

[1096] He bought Chipotle.

[1097] That's what it is barrier to entry.

[1098] That's all guys have to do.

[1099] That's what all women's looking for is a nice Chipotle delivery.

[1100] These postmates guys must be cleaning up then.

[1101] Okay, so you got an outfit on, you got candles, you're half in the bag from the shots of wild turkey yeah finally he shows up i open the door kind of give him like a little sneak of under the robe and he's like oh wow so we just start kissing it gets right that be kind of quick i'm just so jealous of the guy what a wonderful thing no i know this is great peeky boo look at this this is why you're alive this is what makes being on planet earth worth visiting yeah okay yeah so from there we just had into my apartment we're just hanging out still doing the same same thing, making out on the couch and decide to, you know, heat it up and go into the bedroom.

[1102] We're still kissing, get in my bed, not even two minutes in.

[1103] All of a sudden, he just goes, mom, mommy.

[1104] No. And I freeze.

[1105] Okay, okay.

[1106] I'm still kind of in.

[1107] No. I was like, am I mommy?

[1108] Who's mommy?

[1109] Right, right.

[1110] Are you a baby?

[1111] You a little getchy, gitch, gougoo.

[1112] He just looked so embarrassed, which I. I'm confused.

[1113] He's embarrassed.

[1114] So it kind of came out involuntarily.

[1115] It did.

[1116] And then I'm like, are you good?

[1117] Can we?

[1118] And he's like, yeah, yeah.

[1119] I'm so sorry.

[1120] I'm so so sorry.

[1121] Just keep kissing me. We're good.

[1122] No explanation.

[1123] Just whoa.

[1124] Sorry.

[1125] No explanation.

[1126] Mommy, mama.

[1127] Mama.

[1128] Oh, sorry.

[1129] Oopsies.

[1130] Mama.

[1131] Oh, sorry.

[1132] I'm bad.

[1133] I was good.

[1134] I was just fucking around.

[1135] Let's party.

[1136] Yeah, just kidding.

[1137] We start kissing again.

[1138] And again, not even 15 seconds.

[1139] later, I feel a palm on my forehead and he pushes me off.

[1140] And as I'm falling off the bed, all I hear him scream is, my mom would never approve of this.

[1141] I can't just do a one -night stand with you.

[1142] grabs his clothes and runs out.

[1143] Oh, my God.

[1144] Okay.

[1145] Oh, my God.

[1146] Again, this is the first time I've been intimate with anybody in stigmas.

[1147] Why is he of No. Well, hold on.

[1148] No. You hold on.

[1149] He can't push her off.

[1150] He can't do this.

[1151] No, well, clearly, no. No one's condoning his behavior.

[1152] This is insane.

[1153] Let's start with no one's condoning the behavior.

[1154] It's not good.

[1155] Ever.

[1156] You don't aim someone in the forehead and shove a woman.

[1157] Okay.

[1158] So I was just in shock.

[1159] I called one of my girlfriends right away and I was like, what's going on?

[1160] Am I the problem?

[1161] Is he the problem?

[1162] Break this down for me. She was just like, you're not it.

[1163] Just don't even think for a second.

[1164] and it was you.

[1165] He must have like some sort of mommy issue.

[1166] Clearly.

[1167] Well, not some sort of.

[1168] I mean, he has a very serious mommy issue.

[1169] Yeah, explicit.

[1170] Well, and we had only been talking on the app.

[1171] After the next day, I didn't even want to reach out to him.

[1172] I just deleted him.

[1173] Okay.

[1174] Good call.

[1175] And that was the only way you were communicating.

[1176] So he didn't have your phone number.

[1177] He knew where I lived.

[1178] Did he ever pop into your work?

[1179] No. I'm sure he was so embarrassed.

[1180] His mom loves Chipotle.

[1181] I have a few.

[1182] theories in no order of probability.

[1183] Okay.

[1184] I'm not seeing what I think is most likely.

[1185] I'm just saying some things.

[1186] He sprayed.

[1187] And he was really fucking embarrassed.

[1188] And he didn't know what the fuck to do after he came in his pants.

[1189] He's like so humiliated that he was happening fast.

[1190] You're getting under the bed.

[1191] And he's like, oh, the first mommy was him spraying.

[1192] Oh, my God.

[1193] Hold on.

[1194] Hold on.

[1195] This is absurd.

[1196] And now, listen, to you guys, this makes zero sense.

[1197] Rob, does this make any sense to you?

[1198] I don't know that I go to mommy, but...

[1199] Well, forget the mommy part, but the immediate ejection from the situation and an excuse.

[1200] That part I can buy into.

[1201] Yes, that part anyone can buy into.

[1202] It's the mommy part that makes it...

[1203] Well, we're tabling mommy for a second.

[1204] Oh, my God.

[1205] I don't know why we're tabling it.

[1206] Yeah, that's the whole point.

[1207] Well, but hold on.

[1208] So there's one version in this version where he sprayed in his undies.

[1209] Was he wearing undies?

[1210] He had already taken them off.

[1211] Yeah, so you would have seen.

[1212] He was nude.

[1213] He was nude.

[1214] Did you see any evidence of spray?

[1215] Not that I could tell.

[1216] Okay, so maybe that's not the greatest there.

[1217] Although that at least explains the abrupt, because you're going to ask yourself, if you have those hang -ups, why do you make it to the house without it stopping you?

[1218] Why do you make it into the house?

[1219] Why do you make it making out?

[1220] Why do you make it pants off, dick out?

[1221] Why do you make it do all of that?

[1222] And then immediately some flash happens where you're out of there.

[1223] Well, no, because probably the whole thing.

[1224] time he's like oh boy like I shouldn't be doing this like my mom would be so upset but no but I want to like he's like struggling and then as it's getting closer and closer it's just getting increasingly that's my point the moment you're going to have willpower the closer you get to coyness the willpower's eroding so it's weird to me that he found maximum willpower right at the moment he was going to get the thing he spent his whole night pursuing this sounds kind of religiously well it sounds very much like Psycho, the boy who was obsessed with his mother on the hotel the slasher pick.

[1225] Oh my gosh.

[1226] This sounds like someone who has a very weird relationship with their mom.

[1227] Yeah, well, yeah.

[1228] That's now number two.

[1229] Theory.

[1230] What is?

[1231] First one was spray, pump, pump, spray right, which we negated.

[1232] Who do we appreciate?

[1233] I don't know that you negated it.

[1234] You don't buy into it.

[1235] She didn't see any spray.

[1236] But was it bright enough in there?

[1237] Could you have missed some spray?

[1238] I mean, all we had was the candlelight.

[1239] So I guess maybe, but I feel like I would have saw something after.

[1240] Yes.

[1241] Did you go inspecting everywhere, the floor?

[1242] Can we just take that one off the table?

[1243] It's probably not true.

[1244] I think it's what completely fractured the momentum.

[1245] It's got to be extreme.

[1246] He was about to enter her.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] So I will say that at that age, my room always wasn't the cleanest.

[1249] So I'm sure I had like clothes on the floor.

[1250] So that could be probable.

[1251] Maybe it got on the clothes and then I washed them and I wasn't thinking.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] We're going to give him a maybe.

[1254] Okay, we'll give him maybe.

[1255] 5%.

[1256] Listen.

[1257] When I was a young man, you know what?

[1258] I'm projecting, I guess.

[1259] When I was a young man, I found myself spraying a couple times way earlier than I had hoped to.

[1260] Yeah.

[1261] And then I heard myself making excuses out loud that were just based in absolutely nothing and like spinning for why.

[1262] Really?

[1263] One case in particular I can share.

[1264] It's beautiful girl from my high school.

[1265] So unexpected.

[1266] That's why I say the pacing of these things can be really crucial.

[1267] I in no way thought this was ever going to happen.

[1268] And this girl pretty much just went after me on my buddy Newman's couch.

[1269] Next thing you know, bingo, bango, bongo.

[1270] And I have sprayed way earlier than I had hoped.

[1271] Okay.

[1272] Especially with this gal who I thought was so beautiful in my school.

[1273] And then I start telling her about this medication I'm on, which I am currently at that moment was on semi -proven for my back.

[1274] There's no impact on anything.

[1275] I go into this long thing about, oh, this goddamn medication amount.

[1276] I think, like, I'm just humiliated.

[1277] Rob, you've made some excuses, right?

[1278] Yeah, I think if you're caught off guard.

[1279] It happened to be in a movie theater once.

[1280] There we go.

[1281] No, I go.

[1282] With a manager on break.

[1283] But these, there you go.

[1284] These excuses, they're obviously excuses, but they're not.

[1285] Mommy, mommy.

[1286] Yeah, they're not so far out of left field.

[1287] Like, that is so specific.

[1288] I agree.

[1289] This is only one, I said.

[1290] This is just one.

[1291] I know.

[1292] No, you said you hit two, and I don't even know what the second.

[1293] second one is that you said.

[1294] Well, the second one is the mom's psycho, religious.

[1295] Yeah, okay.

[1296] Right.

[1297] That's, I think, the truth.

[1298] And you don't know where he is now.

[1299] No, I have done zero follow -up.

[1300] Are you willing to rejoin Bumble?

[1301] Just to find out some info for us?

[1302] Can your fiancé green light this?

[1303] I mean, he's pretty understanding.

[1304] Maybe.

[1305] So what's your takeaway?

[1306] Oh, my gosh.

[1307] I don't even know.

[1308] I was so humiliated and I had to go tell my coworkers, of course, because they wanted follow up.

[1309] And, I mean, my ego was pretty dead for a while.

[1310] Oh, I don't like that.

[1311] That's so much not about you.

[1312] I'm so sorry you took that personally.

[1313] Like, clearly that person.

[1314] Okay, I'm going to hear that this.

[1315] That person has so many problems.

[1316] This is my last run at it.

[1317] I now think of the order.

[1318] Okay.

[1319] It's both things.

[1320] He had an incredible, weird, psychosexual attraction to his mother.

[1321] And so the first time he said, mommy, he was exploring that fantasy, which caused the spray.

[1322] Okay.

[1323] And then he was in trouble.

[1324] He was post having explored something outside of this weird relationship with his mother, and then he got freaked out, and my mom's going to kill me, and he shoved her away.

[1325] But I still think climax was reached.

[1326] Wait, is he saying that my mom would never approve of this?

[1327] Like, my mom would never approve of me being in love with my mom, or my mom would never approve of me having sex.

[1328] If he had already made you his mom.

[1329] That's why he sprayed.

[1330] And then he sprayed.

[1331] Then he was filled with the shame that often follows your spray.

[1332] The harsh light of day was on the backside of spray.

[1333] And then he felt guilty and like he had betrayed his mom who he was having a love affair with.

[1334] Well, also, I am a little nervous that his mom was molesting him.

[1335] Well, sure.

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] Yes, definitely.

[1338] But I still think the spray is involved.

[1339] Only you can tell us, Emily.

[1340] The first mommy, did it sound like, oh, mommy?

[1341] Like sexual or was it like Mommy?

[1342] Like help bring me something I think it was kind of like a mix Like it wasn't like he was scared Like mommy but it wasn't like mommy You know Okay Was it like mommy?

[1343] Yeah yeah that was more A long long momca Do you hear what I just did?

[1344] What?

[1345] Do you hear what I just did?

[1346] That was my about to spray voice No that it shouldn't be about to spray On the first mommy Because that's that you said that's an exploration mommy yes he was having a sexual fantasy about his mommy his mother yes while they were hooking up right and it came out mommy right which Emily said sounded similar in delivery and then sprayed right and then thought oh fuck shit he's embarrassed he got caught I got to salvage this then the guilt and shame set in of he's betrayed his mom mom, he shouldn't be doing this with another girl.

[1347] Get off me. My mother's going to put me in my cage.

[1348] I don't.

[1349] Emily's shaking her head, yes.

[1350] No, she's not laughing.

[1351] Oh, God, I hope his mom doesn't put him in a cage.

[1352] That's the last thing I would want.

[1353] No, we don't want that at all.

[1354] We feel terrible for.

[1355] He's obsessed with his mother, as many men are, and made you his mom for the moment.

[1356] And then he's obsessed with her and made you her.

[1357] And then maybe, maybe did ejaculate also.

[1358] Okay.

[1359] It's in the mix still.

[1360] We'll never know.

[1361] Thanks for.

[1362] Meeting you halfway.

[1363] Yeah.

[1364] Thanks for having an open mind.

[1365] Emily, does that conclusion make you feel worse or better?

[1366] The mommy part makes me feel worse.

[1367] The possibility that maybe it was his embarrassment makes me feel a little bit better.

[1368] I mean, everything about this is him.

[1369] Souped and nuts.

[1370] I'm sad that you took that personally.

[1371] It's like, all you do.

[1372] is ask for a little Chipotle, and then you're thrown off and been screamed at as a mom.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] You're left feeling humiliated.

[1375] That's what's unfair.

[1376] It is.

[1377] I should have never asked for that extra guac.

[1378] Gwark.

[1379] Threw him over the edge.

[1380] It did.

[1381] I would bet a sizable amount of money that there was spray.

[1382] That's just going to be the last thing I'm going to say on it.

[1383] Okay.

[1384] And Emily, I think that bodes to your appeal.

[1385] It was actually the reverse of what you.

[1386] you took it as is like you were somehow repulsive at some point, Tim.

[1387] I disagree.

[1388] Oh, yeah.

[1389] I think he couldn't even get inside you.

[1390] He was so aroused.

[1391] Well, okay.

[1392] Connected is maybe he didn't spray, but he was going to.

[1393] He's about to spray.

[1394] Yeah.

[1395] And so he lives in a religious house.

[1396] And the mom is driving the ship on the religion.

[1397] So she's the face of that.

[1398] And then when he was getting really aroused by you, the mom just like appears in.

[1399] his head like don't do it and then he's like no what i want mom no let's just keep kissing let's just keep kissing because i don't want her in there anymore and then he couldn't and it's just like it was too much for him yeah you know pick your poison whatever one sounds better for you you know i haven't thought about this story in years so i think i'll lock it back up in the vault thanks for letting us do lots of armchair theories on it too well this one's a riddle yeah it's a mystery people are peculiar.

[1400] They are.

[1401] Well, Emily, this was wonderful.

[1402] It's a great story and you made it through.

[1403] And now you're engaged.

[1404] It's a war story.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] It's just an old war story.

[1407] I got a patch for it and that's about it.

[1408] Well, what a blast talking to you.

[1409] So fun meeting you and hearing your story.

[1410] So nice to meet you.

[1411] Bye.

[1412] Bye.

[1413] That was so fun.

[1414] That was really fun.

[1415] I loved that story.

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] I feel bad for her because I sense that it still makes her insecure.

[1418] Well, I hope after our two cents.

[1419] I don't think anything we added helped.

[1420] We were a mess.

[1421] Are you kidding?

[1422] I was saying he was so attracted to her.

[1423] I know, but Dax.

[1424] Her fear was that she was unattractive.

[1425] Yeah.

[1426] And that was not what was happening.

[1427] No, obviously not.

[1428] He was on fire for her.

[1429] Yeah, he had some, well, mommy issues.

[1430] What if I run into that?

[1431] Like, that person's still out there.

[1432] I think that guy is the same guy as the tunnel guy who's the same guy who's the same guy as someone.

[1433] we caught earlier who had a catgirlfriend.

[1434] You'll at least know now to investigate the floor to find out if there was any spray.

[1435] Okay.

[1436] All right.

[1437] Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[1438] We know a theme song.

[1439] Oh.

[1440] Okay, great.

[1441] We don't have a thing song for this new show.

[1442] So here I go, go.

[1443] We're going to ask some random questions and with the help of our Jerry's book it's suggestion on the flyer rhyme dish on the flyer rhyme dish enjoy follow armchair expert on the wondry app amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining wondry plus in the wondry app or on apple podcasts before you go tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondry .com slash survey