Jonathan Tucker

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

[1] I'm Dax Randall Shepard.

[2] Monica Lilly Padman, our pride and joy here at the Armchair Expert podcast.

[3] Oh, my God.

[4] Before we talk about Jonathan Tucker, who I just love and who's our guest today, I just want to let everyone know that in light of our Spotify announcement, which we're so excited about, I just want to make it very, very clear.

[5] Yes.

[6] It is free, girls.

[7] Free, girl, girl, girl.

[8] It's free.

[9] It's free.

[10] price it has always been and it's going to be the same show and it's free and the interface is awesome there's no downside yeah and there's no change like it's still just us three in this attic doing literally the exact same thing and the ads that you'll hear are the same ads we always do in our show they'll be in our show they'll be us you'll be listening to extra ads it'll be our show so it's all gravy it's the matter of clicking one icon or another or another icon that's the difference we're really excited.

[11] We're really excited.

[12] And we're really excited about Jonathan Tucker.

[13] Jonathan Tucker is one of my bros. I love him.

[14] I adore him.

[15] He was on parenthood.

[16] He was a friend of Christians, and that's how I knew him.

[17] And then I liked him as a bro.

[18] But then I saw a kingdom.

[19] And he is just revolutionary in that role.

[20] He's so good.

[21] It's crazy.

[22] He plays a politician on parenthood, just so if people want to make that connection.

[23] He was also in Westworld, City on a Hill, Charlie's Angels, Texas.

[24] Chainsaw Massacre, and currently he's on the NBC sci -fi series Debris, spelt Debris, famously.

[25] I always say Debris, but it's actually debris.

[26] So check out Jonathan Tucker, my bro, and now Monica's bro.

[27] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair expert early and add free right now.

[28] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[29] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[30] Okay, there's so much going on.

[31] Are you shirtless under that vest?

[32] I guess I'm getting blown out a little bit.

[33] This is a bit of a mystery for you.

[34] Now I've got a shirt.

[35] It's just that I'm Irish and Jewish.

[36] I have very, very little melanin in my skin, particularly compared to my wife.

[37] And thankfully, compared to my children now, you know, there's a little bit more color in the lineage because your reaction to whether or not I'm wearing a white t -shirt or I'm shirtless, is frankly one of the grave problems of my life.

[38] If that's one of the bigger problems, then that's it.

[39] By the way, the headline is not whether or not you're wearing a shirt.

[40] The headline is you appear to be in what I'm going to guess, and you know, I'm a car buff based on what little I can see of the steering wheel.

[41] And the headliner, I'm going to say you are in a 79 Cadillac Fleetwood.

[42] God, you're good.

[43] You're good.

[44] Now, you're off by a little bit, but you're right on the mark.

[45] Tell me, what are you in?

[46] What are you in?

[47] I'm in a 1989 Cadillac DeVille.

[48] As you can see, it's a beautiful, rich, burgundy, plush interior with the nice console.

[49] And one of my favorite things about this for an Irish Catholic is that it's got the flip for the drink right in the middle console coming out, not in, but it comes out for it.

[50] And then the back, of course, has got double ashtrays.

[51] And it's not just the double ashtrays that I find extraordinarily sexy.

[52] is that each ashtray has its own punch and lighter.

[53] Did you say it's an 89?

[54] Correct.

[55] If you have the burgundy interior, you know I have a white exterior.

[56] Of course.

[57] Of course I know that.

[58] And also what I know is it's got a 4 .9 -liter V8 in it.

[59] Front -wheel drive.

[60] Am I right?

[61] You are correct.

[62] And the other thing that's important to note is that life is all about balance.

[63] You know, if you're going to drive a gas -guzzling American -made chariot of success, You also have to have solar panels on your house, which I do.

[64] Uh -huh.

[65] I got a limited rebate from the good state of California and from my friends in Washington, but I did it because it's the right thing.

[66] And I don't consume red meat.

[67] And I do put the environment over my wallet frequently.

[68] But I also think, like, hey, why go out and buy a new car when I can take a beautiful, used one, throw a little money into it, make people's lives aesthetically more dynamic and not contribute to creating new vehicles.

[69] Well, again, the amount you would reduce in carbon footprint by driving an electric car would be far outweighed by the manufacturing of said cars.

[70] So the fact that you're just staying in a car that was built in 89, you're way ahead of the game.

[71] So I applaud this effort.

[72] Thanks.

[73] Are you in L .A.?

[74] No, I'm up in Vancouver.

[75] Oh, and you have that vehicle up there?

[76] Well, I'll give you the full circle of how I got into this car to have this specific conversation with you.

[77] Before the pandemic, I shot this pilot, like right when things were starting to go haywire.

[78] I came back to L .A. They said, we're picking up the show.

[79] And I anticipated, well, I'm going to buy like one of these sprinter vans.

[80] I've always wanted to live in a van.

[81] My Instagram is like MMA acting and sprinter vans or like conversion vans.

[82] Van life.

[83] Hashtag van life.

[84] I am all about it.

[85] Yeah.

[86] And I own police interceptors.

[87] I'm a fleet owner operator.

[88] I have three of them.

[89] I have three P -71 police interceptors.

[90] And I've slept in them, and it's great.

[91] So I'm like, I'm going to get this sprinter van.

[92] I'm going to come to Vancouver.

[93] I'm going to shoot this show.

[94] I'm going to park it wherever.

[95] I'll join like a fancy gym, like an equinox, which I don't belong to.

[96] But they've got beautiful showers and stuff.

[97] And I'm going to shower there, and I'm going to live in.

[98] my van.

[99] It's going to be like the ultimate bachelor life.

[100] And then on the weekend, I'll drop it off at the Vancouver National, you know, International Airport, go right back to L .A., see the kids and my wife.

[101] Well, the pandemic, like, threw many things into havoc, including the van market.

[102] Well, not just the van market.

[103] I mean, the van market for me personally, because I can't go home.

[104] So what was going to be just me as a bachelor living on the side of a river, shooting a TV show, So then it became me, my mother -in -law, my wife, or two children, my dog, nannies, like, you know, children education equipment, double cribs, double strollers, double, you name it, bottles, and, I mean, just everything that comes with all the wonderful, wonderful things that come with your family.

[105] So that's my life here now versus the sprinter van.

[106] And so, of course, I had to get a car up here.

[107] I looked at the lease deal, was not great, went on Craigslist, always wanted to drive a Cadillac.

[108] I always wanted to go to Cadillac in another country.

[109] Exactly.

[110] Yeah, yeah.

[111] You've earned it.

[112] And the kids are in the apartment, and they're screaming and running around.

[113] And Dak Shepard, when he invites you on his podcast, you cannot have young children screaming and yelling.

[114] So I jumped in the old Cadillac.

[115] Oh, my God.

[116] So there's so much going on.

[117] Let me just brief everyone.

[118] We've uncovered.

[119] You're sitting in a car in Canada.

[120] It's an incredible car.

[121] It's an 89, Coopteville.

[122] And clearly, you're just in public right now.

[123] So if someone were to walk by, they would just see you chatting in your car, right?

[124] Correct.

[125] Yeah, and you already look crazy.

[126] You look like a crazy person.

[127] This is part of your charm.

[128] Yeah.

[129] You look like you're planning some kind of violent thing.

[130] I just want to say, you're in an old shitty car.

[131] This car looks spectacular.

[132] Okay, it looks spectacular.

[133] And I was nurse cradled and reared in a zip code, 0212 ,29, the People's Republic of Charlestown, right there in the city of Boston.

[134] It's one square mile by one square.

[135] square mile.

[136] I grew up going to the red store on the corner of my street there, a monument square, where up until the late 90s, they had to give a penny, take a penny for the Irish Freedom Fund.

[137] And when you made it in Charlestown, you drove a Cadill, DeVille, Fleetwood, whatever.

[138] And this is the apex for my neighborhood.

[139] And it's taken me many, many decades to get to where I've always wanted to be.

[140] I didn't anticipate it would feel this good day.

[141] Right.

[142] Or happen this quickly.

[143] Literally.

[144] I mean, look at the stitching on this thing.

[145] No, it's incredible.

[146] It's unparalleled.

[147] Oh, it's incredible.

[148] Luxury's been in a nosedive since the late 80s.

[149] Now, as I'm getting so excited just to see your face and hear your charm, I'm also saddened at the same time because as I see you in this car, I realize it's a crime we're not better friends.

[150] It's not even that we're not better friends is that we don't hang out because what a pair we would be with our fleet vehicles.

[151] Yeah, our wives would be none too thrilled.

[152] Or thrilled that you don't have to hear about this, that we had an outlet in each other.

[153] I first met your wife many, many years ago.

[154] I think it was for this horror movie that we shot in Romania.

[155] And she is such a absolute...

[156] You know, it's what you see is what you get.

[157] She is definitely the nicest person I have, one of the nicest people I have ever, ever encountered.

[158] And she has this incredible way in which to back.

[159] confidence and humility that I actually don't know if I've seen in other actors or actresses like her.

[160] She is so confident in who she is and also like where she's going.

[161] And at the same time, she's so genuinely grateful and also wants to be able to communicate her gratitude through professionalism.

[162] And you see it over and over.

[163] She's not the kind of person who treats people who...

[164] Losers.

[165] Other people might look...

[166] Well, other people might look them over.

[167] Okay, I'm not going to be baited by you You know, she doesn't just treat them well Because like she hopes somebody will find out about it You know, she does these like very kind things And private moments that people will never know And yet she's still like a movie star It's just so rare to see that And I've always respected her And always really liked her And then I got hip to you when you were doing all of your punk stuff early Well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on I want to interject here.

[168] Okay, so yes, you knew my wife.

[169] and because you knew my wife, you and I met each other for the first time in New York.

[170] We were doing one in Rome, Kristen and I. She said my buddy Jonathan Tucker's going to swing by.

[171] Yeah, on set.

[172] Yes, and I'm like, okay, you got a guy coming to your trailer, as I recall.

[173] And then we met, and I'll tell you why I remember this so profoundly is that I think about this compliment.

[174] Anytime I'm feeling low, I bet I tell myself this once a month.

[175] You and I met outside, and I was taking, off and then you then went and hung out with Kristen in her trailer and she told me after the fact that you said i didn't realize dax was such a fucking beast ha ha ha ha ha ha well dude you're a fucking beast what do you want me to say i call like i see it i mean look at the size of your chest it's barreling um wait you know that's really kind of funny because you guys weren't dating then that i knew of we were yeah you were coming in for the kill no no no no no No, look, one of the, like, keys to, I feel like my personal and maybe minimal professional success has simply been like, be professional with the women you work with.

[176] These people who end up hooking up with their co -stars, first of all, not that your wife would have ever hooked up with me. Let's be clear, okay?

[177] She would, she would.

[178] I'm not insinuating that.

[179] But what I am saying is that, like, you're jeopardizing your production.

[180] The benefit's never going to outweigh the potential negative of the production.

[181] And also, like, you want to.

[182] to be friends with these people.

[183] Usually they're successful for a reason because they're dynamic and exciting and interesting and authentic and risk -taking.

[184] And it's kind of hard to be friends with people long -term, really, if you've had some sort of relationship with them.

[185] And it can be so easy to have that happen on a production, not the production I had with your wife, again, but in general.

[186] Hold on, hold on.

[187] Let me interrupt you.

[188] It actually would have been incredibly easy because you're all in Romania, you're all fish out of water, everyone's lonely, the production isn't a high dollar one, people are uncomfortable, it'd be a great way to comfort yourself to get some validation from a co -star.

[189] Per chance.

[190] I guess I've been doing this for a long time, and your allegiance and the priority has to be to the production.

[191] And it's a long -term game.

[192] And there's a lot of people relying on the success of your work.

[193] beyond you and you should take that into account.

[194] It's so funny that you bring that one up because I remember being in New York.

[195] I think you were at the Met or at the Guggenheim.

[196] Yeah, Guggenheim.

[197] At the Guggenheim.

[198] And I remember coming in and she said something about that production that we had done together.

[199] She said to her hair makeup team, she was like, you know, I was so grateful to, I can't remember if it was Disney or funny enough.

[200] I think it was the Weinsteens at that time or Miramax or something.

[201] And she's like, I was so grateful that they gave.

[202] me that opportunity.

[203] And so I wanted to like honor the work as much as I possibly could because it was a horror film and it was not going to win an Oscar.

[204] But she said to them, like privately, she's just like, they gave me this shot and I wanted to honor it.

[205] Yeah.

[206] Well, we met there, but you mentioned earlier that you're from Charleston.

[207] Charlestown.

[208] Charlestown.

[209] And I had a really a unique experience in Charlestown.

[210] I had a driver when I was working in Boston.

[211] I became really friendly with him.

[212] He had just gotten out of prison for an armored car robbery.

[213] He had been there for a while.

[214] I went down there to buy a t -shirt.

[215] I'm on the phone with Kristen.

[216] I'm FaceTiming.

[217] What shirt do you want?

[218] A guy walks up with a super thick neck tattoos everywhere.

[219] He's like, oh, I fucking know you.

[220] I'm like, hey, he's like, let's get a picture.

[221] And I go, yeah, when you come out, I'm on the phone with my wife.

[222] But when you come out, let's get a picture.

[223] he walks in one second later he walks out fuck you and your fucking cunt wife now it's on now i'm fuck you motherfucker you go talk to my wife the dude operating the t -shirts shop johnny kelly yes yes it was it was johnny was it outside it's on the sidewalk yeah in front of the liquor store that by the way that's johnny kelly pay respect go on so johnny gets in between us immediately and the first thing he starts saying is nobody's stabbing nobody nobody nobody like that's it went straight to the next we go quick we go quick to the cutting i thought that was such a telling moment that he was screaming no one stabbing anyone anyways the point of that is that was sunday like 11 in the morning that happened yeah i get picked up monday by my driver and i tell him hey i went to your hometown i had this experience and he's like wait a minute what time was this what this guy look like and i go no no let me be very clear everything's golden the dude and I made up, life's good.

[224] You don't mess with the Charlestown Teamster, buddy.

[225] Keep going.

[226] He drops me off at work.

[227] The whole ride, he's saying, I'd be very interested to know who this guy was, right?

[228] And I keep repeating, no one needs to know who this guy was.

[229] So he then goes and picks Kristen and the baby up at the hotel, like four hours later, and he's still saying, I'd be really curious to know who this guy.

[230] I talked to Johnny, the guy who sells a T -shirt.

[231] He's already talked to him.

[232] By the time I get off work, I get in the van, he goes, okay, this fucking knucklehead's at the halfway house, two blocks up.

[233] He's not from fucking Charlestown.

[234] Of course.

[235] The first thing we'll do is be like, this guy's not from the fucking neighborhood.

[236] And he shouldn't be here.

[237] And he shouldn't have fucking said a thing.

[238] He should have mind his fucking business.

[239] We're going to go over there and we're not having a conversation.

[240] Dude, I can't believe how quickly I got to experience the whole Charlestown experience just by going to buy a t -shirt.

[241] And the fact that even my dude, like, looked out for me, found out who the guy was, now the guy's being watched.

[242] the whole thing.

[243] So when I know you're from there and you're born in the 80s, what was childhood like there?

[244] It's such a unique little world.

[245] Yeah, no, really.

[246] I mean, it really is.

[247] Like, it's so hypermasculine and you're like this artist who did ballet.

[248] I'm just dying to know where you were at in that.

[249] I was in two different worlds.

[250] My parents moved into Charlestown in the late 70s, 7778.

[251] They moved into a neighborhood that they could afford.

[252] My father got this job at UMass Boston, the only public university in the city.

[253] And he's an expert on Monet?

[254] On Monet, on French Impressionism, and moves into Charlestown.

[255] This is very highbrow.

[256] Well, it was a working class community that at that point, they were the first like tunis, the first yuppies, the first liberals to move in.

[257] Uh -huh.

[258] Liberals was a word that I bring up because that was what people sometimes would derogatorily refer to me as as I was being experiencing Charlestown.

[259] And Charlestown is one of the most important parts of who I am and how I see the world and there's nobody prouder of the neighborhood nobody prouder to be from the neighborhood than I am.

[260] But I can acknowledge that I'm not third generation Charlestown.

[261] So they moved there in the 70s because they could afford it.

[262] And we had a five -story townhouse that was a rooming house.

[263] My father did all the electrical work, a ton of the plumbing with Charlie Cassidy, a local Charlestown character, rest of peace.

[264] And people rented rooms.

[265] They bought the house with people living in the house.

[266] Oh my God.

[267] The stairway was a common area for me growing up.

[268] Hold on.

[269] Pause, pause.

[270] That's incredible.

[271] What a scenario for you to meet characters.

[272] Oh, yeah.

[273] And people who rent room in general, they're not like, they don't have roots down necessarily.

[274] No, I mean, some of them, do some of them, had lived in the house for decades before my parents.

[275] Okay.

[276] You know, there was a woman who lived in what became my parents' bedroom who had a bell by her door that like went down to like, at some point to somebody to like help or get food or whatever up to her apartment because she never got out of bed.

[277] She died in that bed.

[278] My mother discovered her dead in the bed because she hadn't paid her rent.

[279] Oh, my God.

[280] But then other people would be in for a year or six months or whatever.

[281] They lost tenants and then accumulated space when people came out literally their sexuality.

[282] They were like, I'm gay now, I'm out of here.

[283] I'm getting married.

[284] I'm out of here.

[285] I'm dead.

[286] I'm out of here.

[287] We're getting divorced.

[288] We're out of here.

[289] I'm dead.

[290] I'm out of here.

[291] They accumulated more and more of that house in Charlestown.

[292] So literally, like, my bedroom was, you know, there was a woman who was working, like, I think she was like a nurse at Mass General for a period of time.

[293] And then I went to school out in the suburbs in a very beautiful, very kind of posh area called Brookline.

[294] Can we use the word bucolic?

[295] I'm always dying to use that word.

[296] Bucolic, nice tony area.

[297] Okay.

[298] It's where the country club is.

[299] And it's literally the country club.

[300] It's the oldest country club in America.

[301] It's called the TCC.

[302] So it's the country club.

[303] It's not the Brookline country club.

[304] It's the country.

[305] We're very proud of ourselves.

[306] Yes, in Boston.

[307] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[308] Can I interrupt and cut straight to the chase?

[309] Yeah.

[310] Do you know Ben and Matt?

[311] I do not.

[312] I do not.

[313] Cut right to the chase.

[314] I thought we were in trouble.

[315] No. I have to ask everyone from Boston.

[316] But here's the reason why, because they're from Cambridge.

[317] And tell us what that means.

[318] We're very tribal in our neighbors.

[319] So if you're from, it's the first thing that they said to Dax.

[320] He's like, This guy's not from Charlestown.

[321] Right.

[322] He's not from Charlestown.

[323] Fuck this guy.

[324] We'll cut him.

[325] Oh, wow.

[326] And in the hierarchy of toughness, I always, from what I knew from movies, was like, Southie guys were the fucking roughest customers.

[327] But then once I spent some good amount of time there, I found out, no, no, the Charleston boys are above even the Southie boys.

[328] Is that accurate?

[329] We don't need to rank ourselves.

[330] Charleston.

[331] Sounds like you do.

[332] Sounds like you really do need to rank yourselves.

[333] I'm not coming on the podcast to start some sort of ball here.

[334] They've both changed, man. They've both changed so much.

[335] If you sent me a script and you wanted to show in the script that the town is yuppified, you would change Johnny's Foodmaster, the local supermarket, where they had no fresh produce and they didn't know what the word organic was when I was growing up, to Whole Foods, which is what happened in Charlestown.

[336] Uh -huh, uh -huh.

[337] It's a whole food, but that's what happened.

[338] Yeah.

[339] When my parents bought our house for $68 ,000.

[340] Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[341] It makes sense because they're row houses, right?

[342] That's what we call them row houses.

[343] Sure.

[344] They're all big houses.

[345] They're narrow, but they're multifloored, and you can see there was just great value sitting there in a very compact city, so it was only a matter of time, I suppose.

[346] The problem was in California, and I know it's a bit of a hot -button issue, but if you buy your house in California, you're going to pay essentially the same tax on it for the rest of your life.

[347] And that seems very unfair for a lot of people, but it's also very fair, because Because as the property value increases, you're not moving people out.

[348] And in Charlestown, as more and more people sort of buying homes there, they would then go and reassess the property.

[349] And people who had family homes who grew up in those homes and were going to live in them for the rest of their lives could no longer afford to live in Charlestown.

[350] Yeah, there's no argument against the California law, because I was a kid when this happened.

[351] And on 60 minutes every other week, you have all these older people who had retired.

[352] They own their home free and clear.

[353] And they're literally losing their home to tax liability.

[354] So you can't have a tax system that way that punishes retirees.

[355] Well, yeah, I mean, that's a retiree issue, but this was happening to people who were any age in Boston and reassess your property.

[356] Yeah.

[357] So then what are those people who have grown up and made the neighborhood, the lifeblood of the neighborhood, who do they blame for that?

[358] Well, they can blame the government, but they also blame the people who are coming in and invading the neighborhood and increasing the value of the property.

[359] So that's where you started getting this tuny, towny kind of by -for -refer.

[360] And I wasn't fully accepted into my school in Brookline.

[361] I mean, I was, but I wasn't fully because I was always the guy from Charlestown.

[362] And then in Charlestown, I was the guy who was getting out and going to this school in Brookline.

[363] Yeah.

[364] But I played Little League and the team I played for, they were the teamsters because the local teamsters, the guy who drove you, their membership, their union is right there at the bottom of the street in Charlestown, right across from the fire department.

[365] I remember like one of my first days out there playing this kid came up to me by the way I was super accepted had a great baseball experience there but one of the funny things is the guy in my team runs up to me stops played second base lifts up his leg his pant leg and shows me this knife in his sock and I'm 10 or 11 years old and he's like you're fucking liberal and I was like what does that even mean I had to go home to my old man and be like what is a liberal and he's on my team but it goes back to the busing Because essentially it was the liberals who were enforcing this busing issue on Charlestown.

[366] And all the Charlestown people knew were this is a working class Irish community that loves and cares for each other.

[367] And we want to send our kids to our schools where they can walk to school.

[368] And now we're being told my one son has to get on a bus and go eight miles away to another school where he doesn't know anybody's going to get beat up.

[369] And my other son is going to go to another school, a whole other side of the city, an hour drive away and have the same thing happen.

[370] And there was definitely racism involved as there was all over the state.

[371] Oh, so really quick, this is interesting.

[372] Because when I think of busing, I think of the opportunity for inner city kids to get on buses and go to a school that may be better performing.

[373] But you're saying in this case, they were also saying you had to leave if you didn't want to your school district and go elsewhere.

[374] Yeah, so busing in Boston, they moved every kid basically.

[375] It was like you put your number into.

[376] to a tumbling machine.

[377] Oh, my God.

[378] And you'd go to school all over the city.

[379] It was forced integration.

[380] In many ways, it was totally and utterly necessary and did a lot of good.

[381] In many ways, it was completely mishandled and did a lot of, and engendered a terrible amount of resentment and violence.

[382] But one thing to look at is where you start to understand there is a very conservative bent in Massachusetts.

[383] There were a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump in Massachusetts.

[384] Yeah.

[385] go to for Scott Brown for Senate.

[386] And that resentment and some of that political sentiment has been there since the 70s.

[387] And they just had so allied themselves with certain parties and those parties took them for granted and didn't realize that there was this undercurrent there.

[388] But the liberals came from the fact that it was the fucking liberals that were stuffing this down our throat.

[389] Uh -huh.

[390] Oh, wow.

[391] What a fascinating history.

[392] Big time.

[393] Yeah, there's a book called Common Ground by Jay Anthony Lucas.

[394] that I think it won the Pulitzer in 1989, 1990, 91, 82.

[395] The year of your Cadillac.

[396] The year of my Cadillac.

[397] Yeah, babe.

[398] Did you hear that?

[399] Huh?

[400] It uses Boston as a microcosm for other urban areas in America in the 70s, the turbulent decade.

[401] It's one of the best books I've ever read.

[402] I've read it two or three times.

[403] It's meaningful.

[404] It's weighty.

[405] But I think it's what gives one of the best lenses in which to view our current climate and current political situation now than any other book I know of of yesteryear.

[406] I'm adding it to Audible.

[407] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[408] What's up, guys?

[409] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[410] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[411] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[412] And I don't mean just friends, I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[413] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[414] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[415] We've all been there.

[416] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[417] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[418] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symbols.

[419] can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[420] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[421] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[422] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[423] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[424] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[425] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[426] Okay, so listen, you're a, I got to pick the word that's not offensive.

[427] A coward weakling who went away to this, a pretty boy school.

[428] And then when you were up there, you were this trashy kid from Charleston.

[429] A great opportunity there, right?

[430] Because you learned a code switch and it really probably is the beginning of acting, right?

[431] This is a good, this is fertile ground.

[432] Yeah, but Charlestown also was like, a lot more accepting than you'd think because they were supportive of the ballet.

[433] Oh, they were?

[434] That you did ballet.

[435] They were into that?

[436] I think the thing about growing up in a working class community is it's all about authenticity.

[437] They just can't be anything more than that.

[438] What they don't like and what people smell right away is bullshit.

[439] I grew up in Boston, but we had a little summer house in upstate New York in a town called Saratoga Springs, New York.

[440] Was there a little waterfall there?

[441] There's a racetrack, famous racetrack.

[442] Oh, okay.

[443] And it's the oldest racetrack in the country.

[444] Yeah, it's really fun.

[445] It's actually great.

[446] Your family would love it, Dex.

[447] You actually still have to get dressed up.

[448] It's old school.

[449] Oh, oh, oh, oh.

[450] This is where Rockefeller and everyone vacationed, am I right?

[451] They would have had a house there because they'd have horses and they'd go to the track.

[452] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[453] I think there's a scene in Ocean's 11 that takes place there.

[454] Oh.

[455] I'll fact check that.

[456] Well, let me tell you, we're no Rockefellers.

[457] We did not have an expensive house.

[458] It was a little very, very, very modest spot because my mother went to Skidmore College, which is there, and my grandmother lived up there because of it.

[459] There's a local bakery called Fryhoffers.

[460] They made cookies and bread and things like that.

[461] And they paid for anybody under the age of like 12 and any senior citizens.

[462] They paid their admission to sit on the lawn at the Performing Arts Center in Saratoga, which is home to the New York City Ballet and to the Philadelphia Philharmonic.

[463] So I'd sit in along with my grandmother and I fell in love with ballet.

[464] I went back to Boston and I was like, you know, I want to do ballet and I want to do real ballet.

[465] I don't want it to be like gymnastics.

[466] My parents got me into the Boston Ballet Company, which turned out to be like the professional track for the company.

[467] So I danced in every performance they did for about five years and changed my life.

[468] Oh, my God.

[469] Okay, so really quick story.

[470] So my mom could tell right out of the gates that I was going to be enormous.

[471] I was really tall for my age.

[472] A beast.

[473] Yeah, beast mode.

[474] And so someone told her, like, I think a doctor said, you know, he's going to be so big.

[475] A great way to get him in very good control of his body would be to get him into ballet.

[476] So my mom enrolled me in ballet when I was like six or seven.

[477] And I did it and I liked it.

[478] And then she invited my dad to the first recital.

[479] So my dad watched the whole recital.

[480] And then it was over and turned to my mom.

[481] mother, he's like, that was his last recital.

[482] Oh, we're done with this.

[483] Oh.

[484] Well, I mean, I hate the story.

[485] I am going to do, I do want my son to do ballet.

[486] Yes.

[487] You at least have the movie, Billy, whatever, to show your son.

[488] Billy Elliott.

[489] Billy Elliott.

[490] But I don't need that, bro, I don't need that movie to show him.

[491] Like, you know what?

[492] Like, running through a bit of a gauntlet like I did, my dad supported me for sure.

[493] And so did my mother.

[494] And Charlestown did, but like, funny enough, the fancy kids, a lot less so.

[495] My class, for sure, but the classes above did not.

[496] I don't know.

[497] I really do think it makes you stronger.

[498] I'm not talking about, like, I'm not a proponent of bullying, man, by any means.

[499] But you got to stand up for what you're doing and what you believe in.

[500] And if you can do that at a young age, again, it goes back to the sense of authenticity.

[501] The only thing we have different from one another is our creative source is our gut instinct.

[502] is who we are as individuals is the only thing so hone that and be that it's the thing that makes you attractive in a room when you're trying to get a job i agree and ultimately everybody has a story to tell everybody's a lot more interesting than they might think they are everybody has something to offer and the more authentic you are the more we're attracted to that because it there's no fear there but it is appealing right like when you're yeah you're hungry you want to be somewhere you have a fantasy and then you hear these things it's like oh you got to do this and it's it's quite tempting it's like the low hanging fruit for sure and people will just constantly tell you what the path prescribed path looks like and yet the things that we all want to see the interviews you all want to watch the actors who are going to bring butts to theaters are the people who are going to do things you don't expect you know we're going to push back against what the orthodoxy is and even in younger people like I don't know enough about a lot of these people maybe to be talking about them, but I've seen some of these interviews with Miley Cyrus.

[503] I know she's gone all over the kind of place, but like she's very authentic to who she is, it seems, in these interviews.

[504] I'm like, I want to watch the interview.

[505] Oh, I love her.

[506] I love her.

[507] Absolutely.

[508] I think she's like, yeah, this is me. But even like Jake Paul, I don't know this guy.

[509] He seems like kind of a jerk from all the YouTube stuff.

[510] But the dude clearly is getting it.

[511] Like, he's busting his ass with this boxing.

[512] and he knows the marketing and he's putting it out there and I don't know this guy from Adam.

[513] Do I've never met him?

[514] I don't know anybody who knows him.

[515] You've got to commend the fact that he is a substandard boxer who's going to get paid millions to box.

[516] That's pretty brilliant.

[517] But he knows, and he's working his ass off too.

[518] True, true, true.

[519] He really is working hard.

[520] I mean, I'm throwing people out.

[521] I really don't know all these people, but I'm looking for these examples of, like, people who are truly authentic in what they're doing.

[522] And sometimes you're going to face these periods where it doesn't feel like it's working, but that's just like this short -term period.

[523] If you stick with it, man, it'll end up working out in lots of different ways.

[524] And like a lot of friends of mine who've gone through sobriety issues, they have found the power of authenticity from the jump.

[525] And I've seen so much of their personal and professional lives change because of that.

[526] Yeah.

[527] Okay, I need to fan out for a bit.

[528] So did you get enough answers about ballet?

[529] I could always share more.

[530] I love the ballet.

[531] It's so impressive.

[532] So you were in a professional ballet company.

[533] Yeah, I was with the Boston Ballet.

[534] And I'll tell your old man, man. I'd look your old man. I'd be like, you know, there's six of us in the company as boys, four of whom are probably gay.

[535] Sure.

[536] And are not out.

[537] And 450 beautiful young women.

[538] I'm like, what?

[539] Where do you want me to go?

[540] To a football locker room, bro?

[541] I mean, what are you talking about?

[542] Oh, yeah.

[543] What world are you living in?

[544] I've said the same thing about all of Kristen's classmates in musical theater.

[545] I'm like, whoa, I missed the.

[546] And cheerleading.

[547] Cheerleading, yes.

[548] Monica is a state champion cheerleader twice, two times decorated.

[549] But a co -ed squad.

[550] And yeah, people would like kind of make fun of them.

[551] And they're like, dude, guys, I'm on the road.

[552] Catching girls' vaginas.

[553] And you're on the road with these ladies.

[554] Like out at tournaments and people are sneaking drinks.

[555] This is the dream.

[556] Okay, do you want to ask, like, any specific, like, could he do?

[557] Is there a move that's really hard?

[558] I don't know enough about it to add.

[559] What's the hardest move you can do?

[560] No, yeah, I mean, I think the reason why, like, I'm very adamant that my son do ballet.

[561] It instills a sense of discipline.

[562] You really got to slow down.

[563] You got to listen and take direction.

[564] You have to show up on time.

[565] The ballet world, I don't know how much it's really changed, but the sense of self -discipline and then just the strictness of it is fabulous for a young man. Well, but you had already been kind of preconditioned as a Catholic, maybe.

[566] Like, that wouldn't have worked for me. My father's a recovering Catholic.

[567] Okay.

[568] But you've got, like, relatives that were, like, famous Catholics.

[569] You're like an ambassador uncle or some shit or some grandparent?

[570] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[571] Ooh, that's good, yeah.

[572] Yeah, yeah.

[573] My great -grandfather was the ambassador to Spain.

[574] as like the first academic to be an ambassador for the U .S. government.

[575] And some of your family members brought religion to Yale as a discipline, some exploration of religion, no?

[576] Yeah, I've never talked about any of these sorts of things.

[577] My aunt and uncle started a world religion and ecology kind of conference at Harvard many, many years ago, and that became really their life work, ecology and world religions.

[578] And my uncle is an American indigenous scholar.

[579] and my aunt, pretty profound understanding of East Asian studies, and her understanding of Catholicism and Christianity is pretty profound as well, as is my uncles.

[580] But they were trying to look at how these different faiths viewed ecology, because all of their texts and all of their traditions speak to that.

[581] And yet we don't really talk about it, whether it's in the temples or the churches or the ceremonies, but also as not in a meaningful way and not bringing out to the forefront the connection between the two.

[582] So they really brought that conversation to Yale within the school of forestry, and they have their own school, their own religions and ecology.

[583] They have their own school at Yale.

[584] That's amazing.

[585] You know, we got to take care of the world, dude.

[586] I know.

[587] And if you have faith in your life, your faith is going to tell you how they believe we should look after the planet.

[588] So you can't just take some of this and not take the other.

[589] You know, if you're a Christian, you got to believe that Jesus, died and then came back it's part of the thing yeah it's the buy -in it's the buy -in and you got to buy into how to treat the planet that is true i hadn't even considered that but if you believe there's a god and god created this beautiful place for all of us and oh it's a real fuck you to god to destroy it but do they think it can't be destroyed because god won't oh good counterpoint well i mean my aunt and uncle definitely don't and they would suggest that the text doesn't say that in any way shape or form.

[590] My pushback with them is you got to hit people in their wallet and people have got to be incentivized.

[591] I agree.

[592] You got to make it easy.

[593] You got to make it easy for people.

[594] Totally.

[595] Okay.

[596] I got a fan out for you because we've been talking for an hour.

[597] I need to fan out for a minute.

[598] I met you there on the sidewalk in New York.

[599] I liked you.

[600] You're so goddamn personable.

[601] I then bumped into you several times.

[602] So fucking likable.

[603] Then you joined parenthood.

[604] Sadly, we never had anything together.

[605] but you were around all the time.

[606] So maybe I bump into you sometimes coming in and out of the trailer.

[607] Not enough for my liking.

[608] And then I discovered Kingdom this year, late to the party.

[609] And right when Parenthood wrapped, you were going to start that.

[610] And you were starting it with another member of the Parenthood cast.

[611] Matt Loria.

[612] So you boys were going to do this.

[613] And then I watched this show this year.

[614] And you are outrageously fucking good.

[615] It's, it's crazy.

[616] crazy how good you are on that show.

[617] I was like simultaneously just enjoying this performance and then like elated for you as a person who has pursued this and done it on the level you did it.

[618] You're fucking incredible on that show.

[619] So your acting's off the charts.

[620] You're so patient.

[621] You're so confident.

[622] You know it's going to come to you.

[623] You're relaxed as a motherfucker.

[624] You're doing things are happening that you didn't know we're going to happen.

[625] It's all obvious on the acting front.

[626] And then the body, it is maddening, your body in that, and that show is absolutely infuriating.

[627] How did you transform yourself?

[628] There's this Ira Glass quotation where he's talking about writing or storytelling, but it's applicable to any of the things that, like, we're doing or talking about, which is he's like, you know, you got into whatever the discipline is because you had a certain level of expectation of quality and of the work.

[629] And you're getting so frustrated, because the work you're producing isn't meeting those original goals, the goals that got you in, the expectations that sent you on this path.

[630] And sometimes it's a combination of your own skill set.

[631] And sometimes it's the material and sometimes it's both.

[632] His suggestion is you just keep on doing it.

[633] Because at a certain point, what got you into it, your expectations, the quality of the work and where you are as a creative person, will end up meeting each other.

[634] But most people quit.

[635] Ah.

[636] And I've been working as an actor for 11, or since I was like 11 years old.

[637] And I actually was just talking about parenthood because I got this call from Jason Katham.

[638] And he called me when I was in this period where I was testing for TV shows like once a week and not getting them.

[639] I think I tested for 30 -odd TV shows.

[640] Oh, wow.

[641] It's not really necessary to go into the depth of the challenge.

[642] Self -doubt.

[643] It changes hourly.

[644] It's like how you look one day, then it's how you act one day.

[645] Then it's...

[646] It's like a cancer, man. When you're unemployed, it kind of ties back to like my political philosophy, which is nobody wants to be given anything.

[647] They want expectations put on them.

[648] They want a job.

[649] They want their skill sets, their self -value to be determined by like what they do and how they contribute.

[650] I need you to show up tomorrow morning at 8 a .m. and be here and do this work.

[651] It creates self -value.

[652] Yeah.

[653] And when you can't work, and when you're not employed, separate things, you don't feel good about yourself.

[654] Yeah.

[655] It's brutal.

[656] It's brutal.

[657] And there's lots of different things one can establish, you know, as handrails and steps to get out of that and to deal with it.

[658] But when Jason called about this show, I was in such a profoundly hard place.

[659] I got on set and Dylan Masson was one of the producers.

[660] Greatest fucking guy ever.

[661] What a producer.

[662] Yeah.

[663] Yeah.

[664] He walks up to me, I mean, perfect layup for this or tee up.

[665] Like, he comes up and he's like, hey, just want to let you know, like really big fans of yours.

[666] Can't, you know, we're all so excited.

[667] You're doing this.

[668] And here on the show, we give the responsibility of the characters to the actors.

[669] And we want you to have a lot of fun.

[670] We shoot three cameras.

[671] Their dialogue is a guide for you.

[672] Try new things.

[673] Take risks.

[674] And I literally was like, I was like, on the inside, I'm fucking crying because I haven't gotten a job for.

[675] a long time and financially hurting and my representation that I thought was going to be there for me my agents weren't there for me and the friends you thought were your friends are not really your friends you know in success our friends know us and in adversity we know our friends and people don't call you back and so I was so grateful because it really gave me it really liberated me that show that shows a real confidence builder isn't it again like I just said about kingdom learning to relax and let things happen.

[676] I feel like that show was like the greatest place to learn that or practice that for me. What else are you going to do?

[677] Well, previous to that, I'm like, okay, I got these lines.

[678] I barely understand why they would have me say this.

[679] And then now I'm going to try to convince this other person the scene that this is a good thing to say.

[680] You're going to force it to happen.

[681] Yeah, yeah.

[682] You can't do that.

[683] Life isn't like that, man. Yeah.

[684] My friend got this pilot recently.

[685] He sent the tape and the casting director said, we're not going to pass along to producers and he calls up and he pleads this case says just pass it along they can pass but just give it to them to say no and he and he said to their credit they did and when they called and said the producers want you to kind of come in and they think you're kind of the guy he said that's right that's right that's right he hasn't worked for he hasn't been employed for years and he's a great actor i said i've been there because you're not saying oh thank you thank you or thank god God.

[686] You're saying, that's right, man. I've been doing the work.

[687] I'm ready.

[688] The expectations of my work when I got into this business, I'm ready to go.

[689] My skills are ready to match that and to meet that.

[690] That's right.

[691] They want me. Uh -huh.

[692] Because I'm the best person for that role.

[693] Yes.

[694] All right.

[695] We're off on a tangent.

[696] How did you fucking get in shape like that for Kingdom?

[697] When this airs, I'm going to definitely post a picture of you from Kingdom on the release because I made Monica look right before we talked to you.

[698] He's going to make everyone look.

[699] We're probably going to do a calendar of you.

[700] Yeah.

[701] I mean, I think almost everybody can get into commensurate shape for their body type if they are as self -disciplined as we were.

[702] And a friend of mine, she's actually a dietitian.

[703] And I think she has an Instagram account, Shira Barlow, short a book.

[704] And when she said, I was like, oh, that's kind of like kingdom.

[705] She said, you know, I never have problems with brides to be following a diet plan.

[706] Yeah.

[707] She was because they can see a goal.

[708] They see themselves at a certain point in time.

[709] And she was, actors can do that really well too because they're like, I'll be in that scene and I know I need to get to do these things to get there.

[710] There are systems you can put into place, like mental conditioning things, to help make those sorts of goals happen.

[711] And the goal isn't the body.

[712] The goal is tomorrow I am going to work on this part of, you know, this muscle group at this time.

[713] with these numbers I'm going to hit.

[714] That's the goal.

[715] And so there's simple things like you've got to know where your weakness is.

[716] So if you're not going to make the coffee to go to the gym, then you need to have the call.

[717] You need to know where you're going to go by it.

[718] And you need to walk through it mentally.

[719] And you're going to say tomorrow morning at this time, I'm going to get up.

[720] I'm not going to feel like I want to.

[721] I'm going to already have the music prepared.

[722] The music's going to go in the car, that one song that gets me going.

[723] And I'm going to fill the gas tank tonight.

[724] Like if I stop at the gas station, I'll get distracted.

[725] You know, all these things get in your way.

[726] these small things get in our way.

[727] Ah.

[728] What did you weigh during that?

[729] You must have been light, huh?

[730] I was 170 -something for one part of the show, and I was 137 or something for another part of the show.

[731] 137 to one -so?

[732] Whoa.

[733] Whoa, whoa.

[734] Somewhere around there, yeah.

[735] Oh, my gosh.

[736] But, you know, you can't fake that, Dax.

[737] Like, I can fake being an auto mechanic.

[738] I can't fake being an MMA fighter.

[739] right yeah oh you so looked apart and just your attitude was so fucking refreshing like the thing that would have drove me nuts is if you went in there and tried to play tough oh that would have been such a disaster you played like a smart ass which i knew many tough guys in my town that had the exact attitude that you had in that show it was just so authentic because when you're tough you can be a fucking smart ass because what's going to happen you know the fight world it's be humble or get humbled.

[740] The more you do it, the more you realize that Monica might be the one to, like, be a higher belt, you know, than I am and in Jiu -Jitsu.

[741] Not might, certainly would be.

[742] Again, two -time state champion, elite muscle mass from the 23 -Me test.

[743] This scale will fuck both of us up.

[744] You just learn to not, like, make assumptions, and you learn that some days, like, some days just aren't your days.

[745] And all those lessons that I learned on that show through MMA, which is still an important part of my life, you apply to your daily experience.

[746] And you just don't know what you don't know.

[747] And anybody can be better on a certain given day.

[748] And the only thing that I can really try to separate you is the hard work that you put in, the conditioning you put in before you get in there.

[749] Now, we're both friends with Ziegers, right?

[750] Kevin Ziegers.

[751] One of my favorite people.

[752] Yeah.

[753] Also gone through a similar experience where his back.

[754] got up against the wall.

[755] He was kind of, I don't want to speak for him, but the employment was not coming the way that he had hoped, the jobs that he had wanted, that he deserved, yeah.

[756] And he just kept getting deeper and deeper into being a better actor.

[757] And we did one tape, man, where I started crying.

[758] I was reading on this other side of the camera.

[759] And I was like, you know, this is really good work.

[760] Like, this is shockingly good work.

[761] Shockingly good work.

[762] That's a cool thing for two dudes to be sharing.

[763] I just want to.

[764] to say but anyways he was telling me that you're still like your diet is like you drink a half gallon of coffee and oil in the morning like you're you kept on it yeah i like systems and i'll abandon a system immediately if i can find a better one i like discipline i like being in touch with my body are you tough to be married to because your wife's like you're so fucking busy with all you got to do this at this time and this at this time there's no flexibility is it annoying for her I'm very actually flexible.

[765] I do this somewhat bulletproof sort of drink in the morning, and that's about it.

[766] And then I just don't eat till a lot later, and at that point I'll eat whatever we want.

[767] Okay.

[768] So she doesn't find your...

[769] By the way, I'm a control freak, and I am also a creature of habit, and it can get fucking cumbersome to be around me sometimes.

[770] Yeah, but you and I, we've done a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong, but I think the thing that you and I can agree on is that we married the right people.

[771] Yeah.

[772] It's so fun.

[773] Having the kids has been amazing, man. It's been so helpful to me as an actor and as a human being, obviously.

[774] But as an actor, the clarity is just overwhelming.

[775] Yeah, they've cured a lot of my existential crises for sure.

[776] They've been the most profound good thing that's happened to me as well.

[777] All right, let's talk about debris.

[778] You are on a show currently.

[779] That's why you're up there, right?

[780] Yeah.

[781] So I got this script and I was like, and I work with them.

[782] mental conditioning coach, like a sports coach.

[783] He does.

[784] He works with athletes.

[785] But I've also read like Tim Grover has a book called Relentless.

[786] I think he just came out with a new one.

[787] The Inner Game of Tennis, another mental conditioning book.

[788] I'm interested in performance on demand.

[789] And our business, there's a lot less analytics of success, i .e. for sports, like the ball goes in the basket or a dozen.

[790] So if I can glean from sports or combat, what is working for those athletes or soldiers, like, I want to be able to apply that to my life.

[791] And it's very helpful in the gym, by the way.

[792] If you're looking to lift weights, there's some, like, very simple mental things you can do that genuinely change the way you can lift.

[793] Oh, we should pump together when you get home in my basement.

[794] I've been waiting to hear you tell me that for decades.

[795] The first glistening shot of your torso, I was hoping you would say that to me. Yeah, we'll do a shirtless workout.

[796] No bench work.

[797] But I had a goal.

[798] I really wanted.

[799] wanted to set a tone on a set and be responsible for a production and a crew.

[800] And I didn't think it was going to be on a network primetime sci -fi show.

[801] But as I looked at it, I was like, well, why not?

[802] Like, I like this script a lot.

[803] I like this showrunner a ton.

[804] I love network TV.

[805] Like, it gets an audience.

[806] It reaches an audience.

[807] Like, they know how to do it, man. I was going to bring that up.

[808] Like, you were doing the best work of your entire life on Kingdom.

[809] And that 90 people are seeing it on direct TV.

[810] It's got to be heartbreaking a little bit.

[811] I mean, what you were going through to do that show and just, oh.

[812] But at that point, like, I was where I am now.

[813] It's like, you just got to keep moving forward, you know?

[814] So.

[815] Yeah.

[816] And people have found it.

[817] It's that good that it's broken out of that.

[818] I found it.

[819] And that's, to me, like, the most important part because, like, I hope I die on set.

[820] I'm not, like, I get my sag after a pension plan every year.

[821] They tell me how much money I'll get when I'm, like, 65 a month.

[822] And I'm like, that's awesome.

[823] And it is awesome.

[824] Like, it does make me feel.

[825] some like i'm not going to be homeless but i'm also thinking i'm never going to be collecting this i'm going to be on set for the rest of my life i love the process more now than i've ever loved it oh my god i'm so impressed do you know like when you go see shamoo now i know there's a hot button topic as well there shouldn't be a shamu no orcas should be in captivity but one thing i did learn on one of my trips to see shamoo 20 years ago was that you never see the same chamo routine more than once or twice because Shamu gets fucking bored so like they can teach the dolphins the routine and they'll just do it for years Shamu, an orca, it needs something new every day.

[826] The food's not enough for it and I just, I'm a little bit like an orca I need to do something different.

[827] I'm impressed with what you're up to.

[828] I feel like I get a lot of dolphin during the day and then my shamoo is when I'm shooting like the shammu is the action to cut.

[829] Okay, that's fair.

[830] So, yeah, dude, like, I love, like, the routine of, like, walking outside and there's the Teamster, and I pick up my newspaper, and I have a little thing at the trailer routine, and hair makeup, and read the obits and read the business section, and have all the works done, and go see the set and be like, oh, cool, it's like what I thought or what I didn't think like, and have, you know, I asked the prop guy for five special things, and there they all are, and cool, let's try this, and I love it, man. I love it.

[831] I think if I was as good as you, I would probably still think of it that way.

[832] Like, if I was out there being Jordan, yeah, it'd probably be more fun.

[833] But I'm out there like, I'm just giving them what they need, you know?

[834] I don't think that's true.

[835] I think you give, I think you're extraordinary that.

[836] I do.

[837] I love you.

[838] I really do.

[839] I love you.

[840] You don't have to say that.

[841] I think other people think that too.

[842] I think other people think that too.

[843] So I think when I learned quickly, like very quickly in the process, I was like, you know, this project is going to give you everything you wanted.

[844] and the people are great.

[845] Okay, so what is debris about?

[846] It's a really fun concept and it's been a really fun shoot.

[847] I think a lot of people end up binging it and when you get to the final episode I think people are going to be like, wait a wait a second, hold on, I got to go back and look at the whole season again because the first season is really an origin story.

[848] It's about space debris from an alien race, like a wreckage, a piece of an old spaceship that has somehow broken up and is coming towards Earth and parts of that spaceship have started falling into the Western Hemisphere and there's a joint operation between the U .S. and the U .S. and the U .K. called Orbital.

[849] And this team investigates where that space wreckage has landed and the people who have encountered it and what kind of happens to those folks.

[850] And that's part of your old NBC family, man. I'm going to stream it on Hulu or Peacock because they're a sponsor.

[851] I'm going to stream it on Peacock instead of Hulu because they're not sponsor but i need monica to see well monica's a big parenthood fan so she's seen you act but that's not you didn't have enough like you did a great job on that yeah but we need to see someone like you need to always be playing someone so i'm a little terrified they're gonna fucking die or kill someone in the next couple minutes well that character was really interesting because it was such a kind character but then there was some i mean i don't i guess it's i don't have to worry about 12 years ago, but like, there was some treacherous stuff happening, some lecherous stuff, I would say.

[852] Lissivius.

[853] I was in craft service on that show, and Sarah Watson, was one of the writers' producers.

[854] She was taking a gander at the crafty table, and she's like, she said something.

[855] I said something, and she's like, oh, well, Bob Little's been very divisive.

[856] He's a bit of a scumbag.

[857] And I was like, what?

[858] What I'm talking about?

[859] And she's like, yeah, like, he shouldn't be taking advantage of Amber.

[860] I was, like, taking advantage of Amber.

[861] Like, Amber's, like, nearly 20 -some -odd years old.

[862] He's, like, 27.

[863] Here we go.

[864] It was totally, I saw it differently.

[865] You had to see it differently because you were playing him.

[866] Yeah, that's what a good actor does.

[867] That's right, yeah.

[868] I would have tried to convince them to make me not gross, because my fragile ego would have been like, Wait, do I have to date someone?

[869] Can I date someone older?

[870] It was such a good storyline, though.

[871] That show, though, for people who were on it, I mean, my God, I had worked with that boom operator.

[872] You know the big boom operator?

[873] Dingles, I mimic him all the time.

[874] Ron, Big Ron, Big Ron.

[875] Big Ron.

[876] So I did a movie with Big Ron in Chicago in 2000.

[877] Always remembered him.

[878] Joy and I were obsessed with his outside the show life because he would go on vacation down to Mexico and he's a beautiful piano player.

[879] and he wears a speedo and he's a fucking beast and I'm like can you imagine walking on the sand the piano's on the sand where he stayed and seeing big Ron tickled the ivory in a speedo who's not knocked out cold by that he's such a great character and I have no comment on that image it's just it's exactly as exotic as you say it is I love Ron oh my God do I love dingles he's like 6 -6 African American great basketball players of just muscle yeah yeah and he used to have his monitor like on a harmonica like a holding device so he could watch the monitor in front of them and hold the boom but he would he told me he's like tuck he's like tuck i've had the same check every week every week to the dollar for six years from the show because the hours you were like in at like eight a m and out at three what a plush gig you guys had for that period of time it'll never get as good that's why i haven't wanted to act sense.

[880] I'm like, wait, this is way too long.

[881] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[882] I think a lot of good things are happening in your life.

[883] You've got a great wife.

[884] You got great kids.

[885] I feel very lucky.

[886] Killer podcast.

[887] Yeah.

[888] Monica, you got Monica.

[889] Monica, are you Indian?

[890] What's your ethnic background?

[891] Yes.

[892] You are because my wife is Indian.

[893] Oh.

[894] Oh, my.

[895] I'm Jewish and Irish Catholic.

[896] My wife, her mother is Punjabi, but in Hindu.

[897] And her father, father is Goudrati from Kenya, Muslim.

[898] So I've got my kids, have got all four religions pulsating through their bodies.

[899] Oh, that's awesome.

[900] We just wrote this letter to a friend of ours to help us apply to preschool.

[901] And one of the biggest parts about, you know, that we talked about was wanting to have our children be proud of their culture and to be in an environment where they were inspired to talk about their culture and to be curious and excited to learn about other people's culture.

[902] and I want them to be proud of being Indian and I want them to not be made fun of it My wife was like kind of made fun of like a little bit She did a lot of her education in the UK And are my kids only half They only have half of the right to claim Some of the victim kind of conversation that we're having Yeah, the marginalized part Yeah, are they half marginalized?

[903] Yeah I get what you mean.

[904] Do my kids have the same?

[905] same right to kind of speak up against marginalization.

[906] And they do.

[907] It's when you start getting into this, like, I'm more of a victim than this person or I'm more of a victim.

[908] Like, that's a problem.

[909] And that's also just not helping anything or anyone.

[910] That's right.

[911] The very truth is your children are Indian.

[912] And they get to speak on that experience.

[913] And also, I wonder, like, when did you guys get married or when did you meet her?

[914] We got married in 2020.

[915] 12, and we were dating for like two years before that.

[916] So have any of your ideas changed since meeting her, like about race or in general?

[917] Because Dax has had since meeting me, I think.

[918] I've changed a few major things after becoming really good friends with Monica.

[919] Really?

[920] Yeah.

[921] I used to make an argument that comedically, you can't section out who's allowed to make fun of who.

[922] That just comedically humans get to make fun of humans.

[923] And if I can do an Irish accent, I'm going to do that.

[924] And if I can do a German accent, I'm going to do that.

[925] And if I can do an Indian accent, I'm going to do that.

[926] That used to be my position.

[927] I have seen the light, and I do not hold that position anymore.

[928] For the realization that when I do the German accent, there isn't a German kid in suburban Georgia being pointed out and made fun of and alienated.

[929] Yeah, there's not enough representation of these marginalized groups.

[930] Yeah, if the country was half Indian, I probably could.

[931] Yeah, you absolutely could.

[932] Yeah.

[933] Well, when you know better, you do better.

[934] That's right.

[935] and making, you know, trying to sacrifice their feelings.

[936] That part I've seen ad nauseum, and I would blow my head off if I had to do that.

[937] Well, I think it's a country we've done a lot better in the past decade about these sorts of conversations, and I think we, I hope we've evolved a lot more.

[938] I also know that really good people can make certain what we now know of as mistakes.

[939] Oh, yeah.

[940] And should not be held.

[941] Like, I have somebody I've been working with who's been using Jew.

[942] as like a common thing.

[943] Can you give me an example?

[944] Well, hey, mom, why can't you sell the chairs?

[945] What kind of a Jew are you?

[946] Okay, okay, that's very specifically playing on the stereotype that Jewish people are cheap, yeah.

[947] I'm like, yo, that is a, I can't believe, and the person knows I'm Jewish.

[948] And I'm like, how I can't believe you could say this?

[949] Yeah, yeah.

[950] But they're not anti -Semites, they just don't know any better.

[951] And I'm not going to say that I wouldn't have a conversation.

[952] about it, try to help somebody get into it.

[953] But I just feel like we've gotten very cancel -y culture about this sort of stuff.

[954] I agree with you.

[955] We're on the same page with that.

[956] I agree that some people have never grown up around anybody else.

[957] Now, if I know and I keep doing it, you know better, you do better.

[958] Yes, it's about how you respond to it.

[959] But also, I just want to point out one other thing, and this is where I've been delusional too is, sure, you, Jonathan Tucker, can hear the guy say, Jew, and you have some response to that.

[960] You don't like it, but whatever.

[961] You're also not a disempowered person hearing it in that moment.

[962] So if you hear that and the guy's a cop and you're a fucking Haseed, there's all these dynamics.

[963] So like I've often been wrong because I forget that, yeah, I'm fucking six to.

[964] And if the shit hits the fan, I'm ready to go.

[965] Like, of course I'm not as threatened by this thing that should be offending me. So that's also relevant.

[966] So let me tell you, I can give you my wife's story in Boston when she met some friends of bars in Charlestown some townies.

[967] They said, so what's your last name?

[968] It's Ahmed.

[969] It's Ahmed.

[970] So what are the Ahmads do?

[971] Well, my father is, he's a writer and my mother's a journalist.

[972] He's like, no, no, no, like the Patel Cartel runs the corner stores.

[973] The sings run the taxi cabs.

[974] What are the Amazs do?

[975] No racism, by the way, at all.

[976] Just watch your game.

[977] But, like, totally crazy to be saying out loud in a community that definitely does not have a history, a positive history with people of color.

[978] But they're basically asking, like, what's your hustle, right?

[979] Like, what's the family hustle?

[980] Exactly right.

[981] I just think it's all a little bit more complicated.

[982] My biggest fear in the world is, like, being misinterpreted.

[983] That's my biggest.

[984] That's like my Achilles seal.

[985] It's like, if I say something and it offended you and I didn't mean it to offend you, like, it kills me. Sure.

[986] But then it gets pointed out and you go, oh my God, okay, I didn't even realize that.

[987] And then everyone's good.

[988] I don't think anyone's asking for something beyond that.

[989] Well, some people are.

[990] Some people want to destroy other humans.

[991] That's for sure.

[992] Like, I want to be sensitive.

[993] If you say I don't see color, I don't see skin, that's all of a sudden that's like a racist thing to say.

[994] Whereas that's what we were trying to teach everybody three years ago.

[995] Yeah.

[996] And I don't have any of the right answers.

[997] I just know that we have gone really far in one direction.

[998] Oh, by the way, the people who have the microphone right now, it's critical that they do.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] One last thing.

[1001] The idea that like three years ago we said don't see color and now it's like you can't be colorblind.

[1002] It's so true.

[1003] There's so many ups and downs.

[1004] A pendulum swings back and forth.

[1005] It's like, where are we?

[1006] What do we do?

[1007] But I would say to that, yeah, it's frustrating.

[1008] But like, maybe just understand that you got to be a little bit flexible because these minor minority groups have always had to be flexible, always, always, always from the get -go.

[1009] So, you know, let's just ride the wave a bit.

[1010] My point is, like, if you're not going to do an Indian accent, Dax now, good.

[1011] Don't do it when there's an Indian person in the room.

[1012] Don't do it when there's an Indian person.

[1013] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1014] That's where I'm saying, like, you know what your moral certitude is.

[1015] Stick to it regardless of who's around.

[1016] Yes.

[1017] In fact, the only way I would possibly do it would be.

[1018] be in front of Monica, actually.

[1019] I would feel worse if I did it.

[1020] Right, right, right.

[1021] Of course, it'd be racist.

[1022] It would be like, oh, is this the one time?

[1023] Like, I'm retelling the story and this is how it sounded.

[1024] And is that worth it?

[1025] And whatever.

[1026] I'd still have to think it through.

[1027] But, dude, these are conversations are really important to be having.

[1028] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1029] I agree.

[1030] I agree.

[1031] Jonathan, you're so radical.

[1032] I'm so glad you were in this Cadillac.

[1033] And really, when you get back, let's make a real episode.

[1034] effort.

[1035] The pomp.

[1036] I appreciate.

[1037] I can't tell you, man, it's like it's such a thrill to be on here with you.

[1038] And what I don't know if you know is just how much like your personal journey has been inspiring to so many people.

[1039] A lot of times, you know, when we're in these positions where our journeys are a little bit more public and you've been so honest about it, you're just never going to know the impact and the influence that you have on people.

[1040] I mean, you see it a bit on an Instagram like DMs where people will tell you how challenged they've been and what you've done for them positively.

[1041] but the extent of what you're doing, having these transparent conversations and sharing your story, you're just never going to fully appreciate what good it's doing in the world.

[1042] And from somebody who's heard it a lot from a lot of different people about you, I just wanted to share my gratitude.

[1043] Oh, thank you, Tucker.

[1044] Well, we love each other.

[1045] I think we both have major crushes on each other.

[1046] Is that fair to say?

[1047] Monica, I think it's fair to say.

[1048] Lots of love, guys.

[1049] All right, Tucker.

[1050] Thanks for having me. Be good, brother.

[1051] Thank you for us.

[1052] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1053] Johnny Appleseed.

[1054] Johnny Tucker Appleseed.

[1055] Isn't there a movie called Jonathan Tucker Must Die?

[1056] Yeah, so every time, I think I'm saying his name wrong because I keep thinking, oh, I'm getting it confused with the movie.

[1057] But I'm not.

[1058] His name's Jonathan Tucker, but I don't want him to die.

[1059] Also, I'm having a lot of confusion around that topic.

[1060] Jonathan Tucker must die.

[1061] Because I want to say it's based on a book written by a guy who might maybe turn out to be kind of crappy.

[1062] It's John Tucker Must Die.

[1063] Oh, John Tucker Must Die.

[1064] You're thinking of John Tucker Motherfucker, which is also a great movie.

[1065] No, I'm thinking of Jonathan Tucker Must Die, but it's called John Tucker Must Die.

[1066] Yeah.

[1067] But that's still short for Jonathan, so it's still right.

[1068] It's still a little confusing.

[1069] Are you thinking of I hope they serve beer in hell?

[1070] Yes.

[1071] Who's that?

[1072] Is that John Tucker?

[1073] That is...

[1074] Tucker Max is in it Oh, okay That was my confusion All right So just forget all that About Jonathan Tucker And Tucker Max And Pucker up Yeah Well that was confusing And we solved nothing I had a thought today Oh I love when you have thoughts I had a breakthrough revelation Oh my God An epiphany I would call it an epiphany Oh my God what happened I think most mugs are left -handed mugs.

[1075] I really do.

[1076] Well.

[1077] And I'm upset by it, but I think it's true because, you know, I have an mug obsession.

[1078] I love your mug obsession.

[1079] You just got a beautiful one from a certain hotel.

[1080] We're not allowed to say because you probably shouldn't have been there.

[1081] I didn't know that.

[1082] But I told you.

[1083] You told me after.

[1084] Yeah, I did.

[1085] After I already bought a mug from there.

[1086] Well, you should go return it.

[1087] I can't.

[1088] I've drank out of it, and I love it.

[1089] Oh, okay, great.

[1090] I guess there's a hotel in Los Angeles that I shouldn't be that.

[1091] I don't even know if he still owns it.

[1092] That's a good question.

[1093] I can tell the history of it, though.

[1094] Can you please look up if he still owns it?

[1095] Because then I can go there.

[1096] Guilt -free.

[1097] Yeah.

[1098] The point is there was a moment where the Sultan of Brunei, in addition to owning the Dorchester in London, he bought the Beverly Hills Hotel, a landmark.

[1099] Well, the most celebrated hotel in town.

[1100] Very iconic.

[1101] Incredibly iconic.

[1102] Very novel and proprietary.

[1103] Yes.

[1104] And then that wasn't a problem in and of itself.

[1105] But at some point, I want to say maybe in 2010 or something, he decreed Sharia law in Brunei.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] And then it became a very protested hotel.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] Understandably.

[1110] We don't know if it's owned still by the salt.

[1111] Well, can you look?

[1112] Google says it is.

[1113] Okay.

[1114] Well, it says the Dorchester Collection owns it.

[1115] which is his company owned by the Brunei Investment Agency Okay, it's a little dicey, yeah Have they gotten rid of Sharia law Because maybe they got rid of Sharia law And that clears up the whole thing Is Brunei still under Sharia law?

[1116] That would be my search.

[1117] Yeah, in May 2019, it says Brunei backs away from death penalty Oh, Brunei.

[1118] Okay.

[1119] Brunei is no longer under Sharia law Or they've backed away from the death penalty.

[1120] Still, it was bad that...

[1121] The Sultan of Brunay?

[1122] Oh, boy.

[1123] Okay, listen.

[1124] So you had this thought.

[1125] I went to the Beverly Hills Hotel.

[1126] I did not know it was a highly protested hotel.

[1127] I bought a mug there because it was so cute.

[1128] Pink.

[1129] Beautiful.

[1130] It says the Beverly Hills on it in white letters carved, carved in.

[1131] Diagnally, in cursive.

[1132] That's right.

[1133] It looks very much like Beverly Hills Cops font.

[1134] Yes.

[1135] Which we started thinking, did they use the font from Beverly Hills Hotel?

[1136] Exactly.

[1137] Then we thought, do we have to protest that movie?

[1138] Right.

[1139] I've never seen it, so it's fine.

[1140] Okay, you're already protesting.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] So I have that mug, and I've been realizing that anywhere I go, like, when we went to the four seasons in Hawaii, I bought a mug there, too.

[1143] Yeah.

[1144] And I got that Starbucks, but I just love mugs.

[1145] You love mugs so much.

[1146] They make me feel safe.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] And I'm realizing that so many.

[1149] any of them, if they only have writing on one side, it is a left -handed mug.

[1150] And I don't like it.

[1151] Well, hold on, though.

[1152] This is where you and I, we need to talk about this.

[1153] Okay.

[1154] So is it your opinion that the writing on the mug should be facing the drinker or out to the world?

[1155] We've discussed this and we can revisit.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] To the world.

[1158] Right.

[1159] I agree.

[1160] It should be to the world.

[1161] I agree.

[1162] Oh, okay.

[1163] Unless you live with by yourself and you don't.

[1164] I live by myself and I'm still to the world.

[1165] out to the world either.

[1166] I would want it to face me then.

[1167] No. I'd want to read the Beverly Hills every time.

[1168] But don't you want to read that Beverly Hills thing?

[1169] Why even who cares what it says then if you're not going to ever look at it?

[1170] You read it when you take it out of the cabinet and you're like, oh, it's cute.

[1171] I'm picking this out.

[1172] Okay.

[1173] And then it's for the world to see.

[1174] Do you know what's really funny is as you were talking about how much you love mugs, I immediately in my head was like, I got to buy her the most expensive mug that's in the world.

[1175] Which is one is our mug.

[1176] Exactly.

[1177] I was imagining myself Googling most expensive mug to get you on.

[1178] And I was thinking, ours has to be the most expensive mug in the world.

[1179] Unless there's like Fabrizier mugs, I don't know about.

[1180] Ooh.

[1181] Dingles.

[1182] Oh, my God.

[1183] Anyway, so this is heartbreaking.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] And I tried it with the other hand.

[1186] Yeah.

[1187] Like, I was like, oh, is there a world in which that's actually.

[1188] you're supposed to do that.

[1189] Like, if you're right -handed, you should have it in your left hand because your right hand can be free to, like, right, or draw.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] So, open a door, brush your teeth.

[1192] So I was like, okay, maybe they've thought this through.

[1193] So I held it in my left hand and I was driving.

[1194] Oh, I'm scared for this.

[1195] And it didn't go well.

[1196] Do you spill it all over your nice car?

[1197] No. Okay.

[1198] No. No. No. No. Tiny bit?

[1199] No. No. green macha slime all over your, no, your tan interior?

[1200] Nope.

[1201] And then I was like, this isn't easy still.

[1202] So then I moved it into my right hand where it belongs.

[1203] And that's where it belongs.

[1204] It was easy.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] No more spills.

[1207] And I had to look at it.

[1208] It wasn't facing the world.

[1209] And I was sad.

[1210] I would want to look at it, but we don't agree on that.

[1211] We have different opinions on that.

[1212] Are right handed people maybe supposed to be using their left hand to drink a mug if they're like writing that's exactly what he just Rob what are you doing over there looking of expensive months oh my god that I just said any who all right so that was my revelation this morning impressive impressive revelation thank you it came to me while I was organizing why did my revelations come while I'm organizing yeah those little menial tasks those repetitive menial tasks can be very fertile ground for creativity Yeah.

[1213] Mine was riding the riding lawnmower.

[1214] It requires just enough of your attention that it somehow lets your mind wander in a very special way.

[1215] What kind of attention does it require?

[1216] Because you have to turn it and stuff?

[1217] You have to stay on the line perfectly so that you're not just randomly cutting, you know, a path every time you turn.

[1218] So you've got to keep that front wheel on the previous wheel mark.

[1219] And then you're going to go wide and turn.

[1220] Yeah, so there's stuff happening.

[1221] You're listening.

[1222] You don't want to go drive over a golf ball.

[1223] or someone's sandals, you know.

[1224] There's just enough stuff going on.

[1225] I think that's why people, like, have great ideas.

[1226] You hear a lot of songwriters say they get great ideas either driving their cart on the road in the shower, very commonplace.

[1227] Because, again, you're doing this repetitive.

[1228] You don't really need to think about it, but you need to think about it enough.

[1229] Sure.

[1230] Yeah.

[1231] True.

[1232] You don't because you don't take showers much.

[1233] Do you want to tell people about that?

[1234] I mean, It's not the most important info I want out there.

[1235] Okay, we don't have to.

[1236] No, let's, let's.

[1237] So, but you have to do.

[1238] Well, I was going to say, if I lay it out, it'll sound like horseshit.

[1239] Okay.

[1240] So you take a shower like every couple days, right?

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] And you wash your hair like once every two months.

[1244] No, no. Every time I shower.

[1245] But I shower once every three days.

[1246] Okay, okay.

[1247] Oh, my God.

[1248] I can't believe I'm admitting this.

[1249] That's a, but I'm telling you, it's actually impressive.

[1250] because you never smell and you work out.

[1251] Thank you.

[1252] So what I wanted to say was like, I don't have to shower because I don't smell.

[1253] I'm not a sweater.

[1254] I don't sweat and I don't smell.

[1255] And my hair is dry.

[1256] It'll never get oily.

[1257] It would take me like 10 days of not washing my hair before it would be oily.

[1258] So it's kind of just ceremonial if I get in there and do it.

[1259] I don't really think there's - And you think it gives you dry skin.

[1260] I do.

[1261] I think soap dries out your skin.

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] And so I only wash my armpits and my dick bowl.

[1264] and anus.

[1265] I don't wash my chest and my arms and my legs.

[1266] Just for the sake of this, I'm cleaning all the areas that could be exposed to do this or extreme sweat.

[1267] And for that, for me, that's only my armpits and my penis, my testicles, my perineum, my anus, and my butt crack.

[1268] Okay.

[1269] So what's funny is on this.

[1270] In your armpits.

[1271] I said that.

[1272] I started there.

[1273] I started with armpits.

[1274] No one remember that.

[1275] Oh, okay.

[1276] Well, um, so I was just on the road and I bring with me my shampoo I like to use.

[1277] And every time I have the same experience.

[1278] So I, I shower twice on this trip that I was just gone, which is kind of abnormal for me. Normally I would have just showered in the middle of it.

[1279] Okay, yeah, because you were only gone a couple of days.

[1280] Yeah, four days.

[1281] I ended up showering twice.

[1282] And both times I thought, why do I think this is such a pain in the neck?

[1283] It's not.

[1284] But in my head, because I shower at night.

[1285] So I'm laying in bed, I'm always about to do something.

[1286] Like, oh, I finally get to watch that show.

[1287] It's always like, it's always impeding on my time, quote, my time when I get to turn on my iPax, my baby boy, and watch some good programming.

[1288] Yeah.

[1289] And I don't want to sacrifice that for some other thing.

[1290] But every time I do it, it's so much quicker than I think it's going to be.

[1291] And both times when I was getting in the shower, like, why don't I just do this more?

[1292] Well, also, have you tried a morning shower?

[1293] That's how I always showered in the past.

[1294] But what broke me of that is acting, having product in my hair and makeup on.

[1295] Now, if I'm filming, I generally shower every night.

[1296] Like I'm blessed this mess.

[1297] I showered every night because I had to get the like hairspraying shit out of my hair.

[1298] I couldn't sleep in hairspray.

[1299] So this, I just want to preface it by saying that.

[1300] Like when I have hair product in and shit, I shower every night.

[1301] But if I'm just living, you know, just taking it easy.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] Every couple days, every three days.

[1304] I don't know.

[1305] It's gross.

[1306] No, it's not because you don't smell and it's fine and you're right.

[1307] Maybe it'll dry out your skin.

[1308] Maybe you shouldn't.

[1309] But I just mean the, I don't think you should shower more, but the days you do shower, maybe you should shower in the morning so you don't feel like it's impeding on anything.

[1310] But the morning's always rushed too.

[1311] A morning shower is nice because you get your day, you feel fresh.

[1312] I like it.

[1313] I'm not against it.

[1314] My thing is when I wake up, I'm praying to wake up a half hour before I have to get involved with the kids so that I can journal that's like number one and then by the time you get the fucking kids on the computer and all that crap now I'm always like oh I got to start researching this person right now because we're about to whatever it doesn't see much number one why don't you just shower on the days we don't record well okay great since you only have to shower once or twice a week I'm not I'm not excited for the response to this I would only have said it if it wasn't a problem it's not a problem okay I promise I would tell you if I was like, I think...

[1315] Yeah, you smell like B -O.

[1316] We wouldn't mind saying that to each other, like your pits smell.

[1317] I can smell your pits.

[1318] Oh, I'm going to add something to this.

[1319] I do think is relevant because before I had this, I did shower way more because I'm pretty neurotic about my butthole.

[1320] So I have a toilet that has a tushy.

[1321] So I spray my asshole with water every morning after I crap, and it gets a thorough cleaning.

[1322] Yeah.

[1323] If I didn't have that, I would have to shower more because there's no way I could go without washing my butt with water.

[1324] That makes sense.

[1325] Or hello bellow wipes.

[1326] I use those too.

[1327] They're wonderful.

[1328] I love them.

[1329] Hello bellow.

[1330] Great, great wipes.

[1331] They really.

[1332] They are the best.

[1333] They're truly the best.

[1334] And I do use them.

[1335] And they're like 40 % cheaper than the competing brand.

[1336] You know what I do like a lot about hellabello wipes?

[1337] This isn't an ad, but it kind of is because I'm here.

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] But it's not.

[1340] The hello balo wipes.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] When you pull it out, it's not attached.

[1343] I love that.

[1344] Normally you pull out a wipe and there's like a hundred that come out and you have to like shove it back in.

[1345] It's so annoying.

[1346] Yeah, but hella be.

[1347] They come out, man. Boom, individual.

[1348] Wipe wipe, wipe.

[1349] Yeah, I guess that would be another option I would employ if I didn't have water access to my bottom.

[1350] Yeah.

[1351] Anywho, I just thought people might want to know about your routines.

[1352] How often do you shower?

[1353] I shower every day unless I would.

[1354] randomly skip a day.

[1355] It's not like I have a routine of every other day.

[1356] It's that I shower every day, but sometimes I skip.

[1357] Right.

[1358] I definitely feel like at least one day a week you skip, right?

[1359] I would say most weeks I don't skip.

[1360] Okay.

[1361] But some days I do, but I only wash my hair.

[1362] Once every three days?

[1363] Or more, like once a five days, probably.

[1364] Okay.

[1365] Because that is about stripping oils out.

[1366] Yeah.

[1367] I believe your skin's the same personally.

[1368] I do have.

[1369] Dry, dry skin.

[1370] I know.

[1371] That's what I'm telling you.

[1372] Also, you have, like, dry skin on your legs.

[1373] Bad.

[1374] It's because you wash your legs.

[1375] Of course I do.

[1376] Don't fucking wash your legs.

[1377] Rob, do you wash your legs?

[1378] I do.

[1379] Oh, my God, you guys, what's getting on your legs?

[1380] You wear pants.

[1381] Well, I also wear short sometimes.

[1382] But in general, let's take a winter month.

[1383] You wear pants.

[1384] Nothing's getting on your skin that water and then when you towel off won't handle.

[1385] Yeah, but it's just a matter of like, I wanted to, You just smell good?

[1386] Like, I don't know.

[1387] I need it to be clean.

[1388] I need it to be clean.

[1389] I haven't had soap on my legs in a decade, and they smell like skin.

[1390] I get lots of compliments on my smell.

[1391] Yeah, but that's your hair.

[1392] Well, no, it's because I have a very gorgeous soap.

[1393] Okay.

[1394] But does anyone smell your legs and said you smell gorgeous?

[1395] Not yet.

[1396] Right.

[1397] I just, as an experiment, what if you tried not washing your legs?

[1398] Just give me 30 days.

[1399] That's all I'm asking from you.

[1400] 30 fucking days.

[1401] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[1402] Wait, 30 days of not washing your legs.

[1403] That's all I'm asking.

[1404] And let's see where the moisture level is at the end of that 30 days.

[1405] What are you possibly risking?

[1406] Okay, can I tell you something?

[1407] Just relax.

[1408] I also have to shave my legs.

[1409] You don't.

[1410] So that is a difference.

[1411] I'm not going to shave and then not use soap.

[1412] You have to use a lather to shave.

[1413] So either you use soap or a shaving cream.

[1414] Put air conditioner on it.

[1415] Well, that's going to clean it.

[1416] It's still soap.

[1417] Conditioner's not soap.

[1418] What are you talking about?

[1419] Moisturizing conditioner.

[1420] It's still cleansing.

[1421] It's still cleansing.

[1422] Anyway, I...

[1423] You won't do it.

[1424] I'm not going to do it.

[1425] I care about cleaning my legs and my arms.

[1426] Yeah.

[1427] And my body.

[1428] And you deal with dry skin as a result of it.

[1429] I do.

[1430] Yeah.

[1431] Well, we don't know if it's as a result.

[1432] And we'll never know, because you won't go 30 days without.

[1433] I can't believe you're, now you're acting like I'm doing something wrong somehow by not, by cleaning my body every day.

[1434] Yes, what I'm telling you is that humans as an animal species were not designed to have soap applied to their epidermis once a day.

[1435] And the result of that is dry, chalky skin.

[1436] Well, and they also probably had rashes and gross stuff everywhere.

[1437] One time when I was little...

[1438] Oh, we're going to find out the trauma that caused this.

[1439] Okay, no trauma caused taking a shower with soap, okay?

[1440] That's normal.

[1441] We'll find out.

[1442] I don't want you to act like people are doing something wrong just because you shower once every three days.

[1443] They're doing normal stuff.

[1444] All I'm saying is that people could try as an experiment, risk -free, money -free, to try not soaping their bodies up for a month.

[1445] in evaluating if, A, they smelt differently, and B, if their skin wasn't much softer and less dry.

[1446] That's not a crazy request.

[1447] Well, it is a crazy request.

[1448] I don't think people need to feel like they need to do that for you.

[1449] It's not for me. It's for them.

[1450] I'm not the one that deals with their dry skin.

[1451] That's like what a cult leader says.

[1452] They turn the tables.

[1453] All of a sudden.

[1454] Anyway, I was younger, and my mom was like, what's on your neck?

[1455] Uh -oh.

[1456] And it was in my neck crease, which I still have, and I hate.

[1457] Okay.

[1458] I had it back then, too.

[1459] And she was like, it's black.

[1460] And she thought it was a bruise or something.

[1461] And turns out it was dirt.

[1462] Okay.

[1463] Okay?

[1464] So that's where it.

[1465] So you have to wash your neck.

[1466] With water.

[1467] You can wash it with water and the dirt would have been gone.

[1468] I was, I at least washed with water.

[1469] Apparently not, because you had a big clump of dirt in your neck.

[1470] You can't spray your neck with water and have a clump of dirt sitting there afterwards.

[1471] If you have a crease, you have to get in there.

[1472] Sorry you don't have a crease.

[1473] My head, mine removed when I was a child.

[1474] I wish I could get mine removed so bad.

[1475] Anyway, so it's covered in dirt, and now I'm very diligent about my neck.

[1476] But also, you have to take really good moisturizing care of that area, too.

[1477] Mm -hmm.

[1478] Just keeping your skin moist is really advised.

[1479] It is.

[1480] It is.

[1481] Okay.

[1482] Yeah.

[1483] J .T. Thomas.

[1484] Jonathan Taylor Thomas.

[1485] Jonathan Tucker Thomas?

[1486] Jonathan Tucker Thomas.

[1487] Oh, my God.

[1488] What if his middle name is Thomas?

[1489] Jonathan Thomas Tucker.

[1490] Oh, my God.

[1491] Simulation.

[1492] Okay.

[1493] The horror movie that he and Kristen shot in Romania was called Pulse.

[1494] Pulse.

[1495] And who produced that movie he thought maybe was the wines.

[1496] scenes.

[1497] The wine scene company was a producer on that with other ones too.

[1498] Is the TCC the oldest country club in America?

[1499] No. Oh.

[1500] The country club, TCC, located in Brookline, Massachusetts, is one of the oldest country clubs in the United States.

[1501] It holds an important place in golf history as it is one of the five charter clubs that founded the United States Golf Association.

[1502] And has hosted numerous USGA tournaments, including the 1913 U .S. Open.

[1503] Although the club has 1 ,300 members, it is known for its exclusivity.

[1504] Oh, I want to go there.

[1505] That's one place that's limited to dish that I could care less about.

[1506] Good, good, good, yeah.

[1507] I got a chip on my shoulder, of course.

[1508] Yeah, yeah.

[1509] But anyone who's having a good time there, God bless you.

[1510] Well, I think I have a trauma about it because, oh, maybe that's not a country club.

[1511] In Marina Del Rey, there's some sort of country club, and when I babysat for these kids who lived there, one time I had to take them there, and they had tennis lessons, and then my car was towed.

[1512] Oh, my God.

[1513] And I had to get to the tow place with no car seats.

[1514] We had to walk there.

[1515] It was a nightmare.

[1516] Oof.

[1517] Stressful day.

[1518] Very.

[1519] What kind of stress would you prefer?

[1520] Like, you've had entry -level job stress, and you've had, like, high -level job stress.

[1521] Because I think white -collar people kind of tell themselves, yeah, I don't swing a hammer all day long, but the amount of stress I'm under, and maybe they're right, I don't know.

[1522] But what would you say?

[1523] Hmm, that's a good question.

[1524] I mean, all the babysitting jobs have its own level of stress because you're caring for somebody else's children.

[1525] So it has, to me, a very high weight of stress more than something I'm doing on my own.

[1526] Yeah, I think it's more, I don't think this is answering it properly, but I am definitely more stressed in jobs where I'm serving somebody else.

[1527] If it's me, I'm definitely stressed because it's on me, but I don't have an emotional layer of like that person.

[1528] Failing somebody, yeah, you would just be failing yourself.

[1529] Yeah, which I do all day.

[1530] Every time there's dirt in my neck, it's a failure.

[1531] I once, I told Delta, of course, and Lincoln about my dirt neck.

[1532] Oh, okay.

[1533] And so I think I instilled in them that they got to wash their neck a lot.

[1534] Oh.

[1535] Yeah, I passed that on.

[1536] They're not listening to you because they are.

[1537] They don't wash. You think I'm bad.

[1538] They do.

[1539] I think Lincoln even brought it up again to me. We used to bathe them every single night as part of the bedtime routine.

[1540] Yeah.

[1541] And at some point that stopped.

[1542] And now there's quite often a conversation between Chris and I was like, shit, have you bathed the kids lately?

[1543] Because I'll just be going in my head, like, well, I haven't sat in on a bath in a week.

[1544] In a while.

[1545] And she'll go, oh, I thought you.

[1546] Well, I guess it's been.

[1547] Oh, yeah, sure, sure.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] It goes to show the power of habit.

[1550] Yeah.

[1551] Because when it was part of bedtime routine, it was unmissed.

[1552] It was signaling, here we go.

[1553] Yeah.

[1554] But when they are in the bath, I guarantee you the neck is addressed.

[1555] You think so?

[1556] Yes.

[1557] Okay.

[1558] Is the oldest racetrack in Saratoga Springs?

[1559] You had a lot of oldest claims, huh?

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] Huh.

[1562] Not true.

[1563] Okay.

[1564] All right.

[1565] These things happen.

[1566] Saratoga Racecourse opened in 1863.

[1567] It is often considered to be the oldest major sporting venue of any kind in the country.

[1568] But it is actually the fourth oldest racetrack in the United States.

[1569] Uh -oh.

[1570] after third oldest pleasant town fairgrounds racetrack second oldest fairgrounds race course and oldest freehold raceway all right so he's getting really close to these you know he's like in the top yeah he should just he can even say top five so easy to add just one of uh -huh yeah and then you're in the clear yeah and i thought maybe it was where they shot oceans 11 this scene in oceans 11 Mm -hmm.

[1571] That's a dog track, isn't it?

[1572] Yeah.

[1573] Saul is at the dog track.

[1574] But then later in the movie, they're in the heist part at this point.

[1575] Mm -hmm.

[1576] And he's walking in the hotel and someone recognizes him and says, Saul, Saul, but his name is something else.

[1577] Yeah.

[1578] And they says, Saul, it's blah, blah, blah, from Saratoga.

[1579] Uh -huh.

[1580] Full circle.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] I wonder if it has the oldest dog.

[1583] dog racing track in the world.

[1584] Saratoga?

[1585] I mean, I don't know where dog racing is popular other than Florida.

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] I've never been to one.

[1588] I have.

[1589] You have?

[1590] Is it fun?

[1591] Is it abuse?

[1592] I think what ends up, well, dogs love chasing shit.

[1593] So the race itself, I don't think, is abuse.

[1594] But I do think there might be some questionable practices to get the dogs ready to race.

[1595] I see.

[1596] There's always this rumor that they fed him gunpowder.

[1597] That was one as a kid.

[1598] That's got to be urban legend.

[1599] Anyways, they probably aren't, you know.

[1600] Treated real nice.

[1601] Right.

[1602] I don't know.

[1603] I don't know, ma 'am.

[1604] I don't know.

[1605] I don't either.

[1606] We're not saying because we don't know.

[1607] We don't have a position because we're ignorant on the whole sport.

[1608] We are.

[1609] If we can call a sport.

[1610] Yeah, I don't know.

[1611] Yeah, that might be taking a position.

[1612] All right.

[1613] All right.

[1614] Love you.

[1615] Love you.

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