Tilly Remembers Her Grandfather, Three Months On

[0] Hey there, it's Michael.

[1] This week, we're revisiting people we met in the early weeks of the pandemic, listening back, and hearing what's happened to them since our original conversations.

[2] Today, Tilly Brimhorst.

[3] It's Friday, July 17th.

[4] I am recording, and it is working.

[5] Hey, Tilly.

[6] Hi.

[7] Hey, how are you?

[8] I'm doing okay.

[9] Tilly, what is?

[10] that in your hand?

[11] It looks like a leather a blanket or a stuffed animal?

[12] It's a blanket.

[13] Oh, what does it say on it?

[14] It says powered by pizza.

[15] And does it look like it has an image of pepperoni pizza on it?

[16] Is that what I'm glimpsing?

[17] Yeah.

[18] That's pretty great.

[19] Well, Tilly, I really want to thank you for getting on the phone with us, or I guess this Google Hangout with us.

[20] And I wonder if you could tell me your full name, and how old you are?

[21] Matilda Rose Brimhorst, and then I am 12.

[22] Mm -hmm.

[23] And I just want to start with a very simple question.

[24] How have you been feeling this past week?

[25] I'm kind of in and out of mood.

[26] Usually, the two moods that I'm mostly in are sad and angry.

[27] And why do you think that you're sad and angry?

[28] What about?

[29] I don't know.

[30] I feel like we're sad and angry because I think angry more that it's not fair that he's gone and I feel like sad is really we're sad that he's gone and sad that we're being sad.

[31] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Babarro.

[32] This is the Daily.

[33] Tens of thousands of Americans have died from the coronavirus.

[34] One of them was Craig Brimhorst.

[35] Today, his granddaughter remembers him.

[36] It's Friday, May 1st.

[37] I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about your grandfather.

[38] How would you describe your grandfather physically?

[39] What did he look like?

[40] What would he wear?

[41] Those kinds of things.

[42] Well, he'd wear pastor clothes and stuff.

[43] Was he a pastor?

[44] Yes, he was a pastor.

[45] He used to be a male man, and then he didn't really like that job.

[46] Hmm.

[47] And he had, like, white hair, and then the mustache that goes right into the beard.

[48] Mm -hmm.

[49] And when I was little, I play with his beard, because it just felt so interesting touching it with my hands.

[50] What do you mean?

[51] It felt all rough and sprappy, but, like, Like, not too scrappy.

[52] He'd wear glasses.

[53] And sometimes I stole his glasses.

[54] And he's like, Joey, he ran back.

[55] And, like, whenever I walked into the house, he'd just be like, hoody ho.

[56] I don't know where that came from, but it's just huge.

[57] It's always something he said.

[58] Hooty ho.

[59] Ho.

[60] It's more interesting than, hello.

[61] Yeah.

[62] Did he have any kind of nickname for you?

[63] Tilly B was my one.

[64] Tilly B. Yeah, because for Rhyme Horse, they just called me Tilly B, and it kind of just rhymes.

[65] Wait, which part rhymes?

[66] Tilly and then B. It's just kind of like, it just goes together.

[67] Tilly B. Tilly B. Yeah.

[68] And then he'd always make me happy.

[69] I'd never, like, really get upset around him unless I was hurt.

[70] Unless you were hurt, you said.

[71] Yeah, because we did all sorts of crazy things.

[72] Wait, now I need to understand Some of the crazy things you did with him Um, well, you'd take me out on the roof Once we brought sleeping bags on the roof The roof of your house?

[73] No, my grandpa's house But we didn't tell my dad about it until afterwards Wow It sounds like he has a slightly mischievous quality to him Yeah Can you tell me about that?

[74] What was that like?

[75] Well, it would usually be like the middle of summer and we grab the step ladder and open the window, pull up the screen, climb up onto the edge of the roof, up to our special spot.

[76] Just laid there on the roof.

[77] And we just looked at the stars and talked for a while.

[78] What kinds of things would your grandfather say?

[79] Um, here, Tilly, let's look for the big dipper, maybe the Milky Way for Lucky and Mars might be like wait but isn't Mars a planet not a star you would just be like but we can see it as a red star kind of the stars were really bright and it was really warm outside and it was beautiful how often would you see your grandfather we wouldn't see him like every single weekend but like we'd do him a lot he'd be I'd come to my school, and he'd sit in the lunchroom with me. Wow.

[80] He would just show up.

[81] Did he announce himself?

[82] Was it unexpected?

[83] He would never tell me that he was coming.

[84] And he'd just be waiting for me right next to the lunchroom door, just waiting for me. And then I just look around for him every time.

[85] He'd sit right next to me. And I'd have my lunchbox, and he kind of just pick out things from it.

[86] Sometimes he'd take my chips, and I'd be like, Papa!

[87] He talked to my friends.

[88] He'd talk about, like, all these fun things, like, all his stories about, like, going to Tanzania, and all sorts of things.

[89] And what would you think when you saw him?

[90] I'd be proud.

[91] I'd be proud that my grandpa comes to this, to my school a lot to just eat lunch with me and tell my friends all these stories.

[92] Mm -hmm.

[93] He was just there.

[94] Right when I needed it, which made me feel really nice.

[95] Yeah, I don't know a lot of grandpas or grandmas who do that.

[96] It's really special.

[97] Yeah.

[98] So I want you to tell me, if you're willing, the story of the last few weeks and what happened with your grandfather.

[99] Yeah.

[100] And I wonder, I don't know where you think we should start.

[101] I think we should, like, start from the beginning.

[102] So Papa and my grandma went to the Holy Lamb's He wanted to take his church group there So they went to the Middle East?

[103] Yeah, where baby Jesus was like born And like that's sort of the place And then they got like this morning there An outbreak has started here of the coronavirus And so when they come back They were straight into quarantine But right when they came back Papa started getting like really ill. He had high fever, really high fever.

[104] And in my mind at Braceman was home, I was like, oh, he's fine.

[105] He'll get through this.

[106] He's strong.

[107] But then he got worse and worse.

[108] And I was like, oh, no, it's going to happen.

[109] I was just kind of in a worried state.

[110] But like not like a, oh my gosh, really, really sad.

[111] That's what I say.

[112] Until like a couple weeks later, he just.

[113] Couldn't do it, and he got lifted to the hospital here.

[114] And Tilly, were you talking to him during this time?

[115] No, I didn't get to talk to him at all.

[116] I mean, he didn't have been, like, letters, but I don't know if he even got to read those.

[117] I remember, so when I heard about that he was put in the hospital, because it got worse.

[118] Mom was like, do you want to sleep with one of his shirts?

[119] I was like, yeah.

[120] Yeah.

[121] So she brought me the shirt.

[122] It was just like a greenish -brown t -shirt.

[123] Were you wearing it or was it just beside you?

[124] I was wearing it.

[125] Hmm.

[126] It felt like really, really big on me. It was kind of like cold, but it felt really soothing to wear it, though.

[127] I wanted to feel like I was close to him.

[128] I was giving him a hug.

[129] I thought about him the whole night.

[130] I prayed that he would make it through, that he wouldn't have to go.

[131] My prayer really didn't come true because he had a stroke during the night from a heart disease that he had.

[132] And that made it super worse.

[133] And even if we did get him back, he wouldn't actually, like, his body would be there, but he wouldn't be there.

[134] He couldn't do anything.

[135] Like, he couldn't talk.

[136] into the things that made him him.

[137] And how did you learn the news?

[138] Mom got a call.

[139] And then I looked at her and I saw worry, so I kind of just did stuff.

[140] And then Mommy told me what happened.

[141] And what did she tell you?

[142] She told me about the living will that my grandma, my dad, and my uncles read it, well, the doctor read it to them, that it said that if something happened, And he wanted to go.

[143] He didn't want to, like, have to suffer in this state.

[144] So your grandfather had written a will that made clear that if he got very sick and he'd reached a condition where things weren't working out, that he wanted to be allowed to die.

[145] Yeah.

[146] And he just wanted to go to heaven and be with God.

[147] Like he says, he wanted to fall.

[148] in the arms of God.

[149] That's what he wrote.

[150] Yeah, he wants to fall in the arms of God.

[151] He's like a trust fall, really.

[152] Hmm.

[153] And I couldn't handle, like, knowing that.

[154] I knew that he wouldn't be coming back.

[155] He wouldn't be with me anymore.

[156] Mm -hmm.

[157] And that was hard to know.

[158] Mm -hmm.

[159] How are you holding up over there?

[160] Um, I'm okay.

[161] Um, it's hard talking about it, but it's also, It also makes me happy to talk about how great he was and what happened.

[162] You know, I've lost my grandparents, too.

[163] It's one of the kind of sad, inevitable things that it means to be alive is that the people before you die, and it's just really hard.

[164] Yeah.

[165] It is really hard.

[166] Mm -hmm.

[167] I want you to know you're being very brave and telling you, the story, I know how difficult it must be.

[168] Thank you.

[169] We'll be right back.

[170] Can I ask you to describe sadness to me?

[171] What that feels like?

[172] I feel like it's hard.

[173] Sadness is probably like a hard one for me. Happiness I could do easily, but like sadness is kind of hard.

[174] Why is happiness easy and why is sadness hard, do you think?

[175] I don't know.

[176] Sadness is an emotion that is kind of like more, like, deeper, and it's kind of like a big, big emotion, happiness can be big, but not as much as sadness.

[177] Mm -hmm.

[178] There's a depth to it that makes it hard to describe.

[179] Yeah.

[180] I kind of feel like sadness is like just an ocean filled with nothing.

[181] Mm -hmm.

[182] Have you noticed that the people around you, your parents, that they are sad to?

[183] Yeah.

[184] So my dad will go outside a lot You can tell that he's getting angry And he's really short -tempered At that point Mom will kind of just stay her in her office Not really doing anything But she'll just sit around Like I've seen mom try to keep crying to herself And dad too But I can see it I mean they're trying to shield it from you Yeah But I can still feel it Do you wish that they would just do it in front of you?

[185] And why do you think they should do it more out in the open?

[186] I kind of feel like it helps me understand my emotions as well.

[187] Like, how they feel.

[188] Do I feel that?

[189] It kind of gives you permission to feel the way you feel.

[190] Yeah.

[191] Like when I was talking to my dad about Papa, he started crying, and I started crying.

[192] And then we just hugged and it was nice.

[193] Mm -hmm.

[194] You know, a lot of kids are going through what you're going through right now because of this virus.

[195] And a lot of adults are going through this.

[196] I wonder how that makes you feel.

[197] It makes me feel like I'm not alone, and it also kind of makes me feel a bit angry about how they still haven't figured out how this started.

[198] I want to know so I could figure out like how it wouldn't happen again.

[199] Was it a cause of a human that did it?

[200] Was it the cause of an animal?

[201] Was it kind of both?

[202] And if it turns out, this is just something that nature and the universe gave us, and it wasn't somebody who did something, how would you feel about that?

[203] I'd be mad at the universe.

[204] I know that a lot of people, when someone they care about or they love passes away, they end up looking for that person in the world, or they end up thinking about that person unexpectedly.

[205] Yeah.

[206] Thinking that maybe they're there or standing by you, that sort of thing.

[207] Mm -hmm.

[208] Yeah, I feel like Papa was like by me a lot.

[209] But sometimes I feel like he's out there, like, with other people and helping them through their bad moments.

[210] You know, I have a very specific.

[211] sense of my grandmother whenever this song comes on because when I was around your age, she died and a song was playing on the radio, and it was a song that made me feel sad, even though it was a love song.

[212] I don't know if you've ever heard this song.

[213] It's by Richard Varks, and it goes, wherever you go, whatever you do, I will be right there waiting for you.

[214] And it always makes me think of my grandmother and her death whenever it comes on.

[215] And I wonder if you were having moments like that yet.

[216] Yeah, I do have those type of moments, but like kind of different than just a song.

[217] It's more of when I saw my grandma in her backyard, because we went over just to the backyard.

[218] We weren't allowed to get close to anyone, though.

[219] I felt like he, I felt like sad, but I also felt kind of a kind of a little.

[220] He is in peace now.

[221] He didn't have to deal with this bad virus.

[222] He doesn't have to feel pain or sadness or anything.

[223] Tilly, have you gone outside and looked up at the stars since your grandfather died?

[224] Only a little bit, but not much.

[225] It's not the same without being at my grandma's house.

[226] Do you think that you will do that?

[227] Do you think there'll be a point when you'll want to do that?

[228] Yeah, we said when we're going to go over to Grandma's house, me, Daddy, and my big sister are going to go up onto the roof and just sit there looking at the stars.

[229] Well, Tilly, I really want to thank you for spending time with us.

[230] And I want to tell you I'm sorry I am about the loss of your grandfather.

[231] Thank you.

[232] It was really good to talk to you.

[233] Yeah.

[234] It feels good to talk to someone about it.

[235] It's good to talk.

[236] After this episode aired, Tilly began receiving letters from people across the country.

[237] Some knew her grandfather and wanted to share stories of their time with him.

[238] Others wanted to tell her about their own treasured relationship with a grandparent.

[239] One listener, Lee Goldman, wrote, quote, For those lucky people, like you and me, we were blessed with enough time to know our grandparents and for them to have an impact on us that will never go away.

[240] Tilly says it's been a while since her grandfather has appeared in her dreams and that she's recently stopped wearing his shirt when she goes to bed.

[241] Tilly is spending her summer playing with her cousins and visiting places she used to go with her grandfather, like the nature center near his house.

[242] She's also been running through sprinklers, going to the pool, and playing lots of Minecraft with her friends.

[243] We'll be right back.

[244] Here's what else you need, to know today.

[245] On Thursday, the U .S. and Canada said that Russian hackers are trying to steal coronavirus vaccine research from Western health organizations.

[246] The National Security Agency said that a hacking group associated with Russian intelligence is behind the attacks, which have employed fishing and malware scams.

[247] The hacking group, known as Cozy Bear, is well known to the U .S., because it was implicated in the 2016 hacking of the Democratic National Committee.

[248] and requirements to wear masks from state governments and private industry are spreading across the country.

[249] The bottom line is that like all colorans, I want to be able to enjoy life and go to a restaurant and get a haircut and keep our businesses open and protect our economy and protect lives.

[250] And the data increasingly shows that one of the powerful tools that we as a state have done well on but can do better on is wearing masks.

[251] And that's why today I'm signing an executive order that's effective at midnight tonight that requires that every Colorado in age 10 and up wear a mask or face covering.

[252] On Thursday, the governors of Colorado and Arkansas issued statewide mask requirements for public indoor spaces.

[253] At the same time, Target and CVS issued their own mask requirements for customers, joining Walmart, Kroger, and Coles.

[254] As of Thursday night, there have been 3 .5 million infections in the U .S. The Daily is made by Theo Balcom, Andy Mills, Lisa Tobin, Rachel Quester, Lindsay Garrison, Annie Brown, Claire Tennisketter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Larissa Anderson, Wendy Doer, Chris Wood, Jessica Chung, Stella Tan, Alexander Lee Young, Jonathan Wolfe, Lisa Chow, Eric Kruppke, Mark George, Luke Vanderplug, Adisa Egan, Kelly Prime, Julia Longoria, Sindhu Yana Sumbendun, M .J. Davis Lynn, Austin Mitchell, Sayer Cavado, Nina Pawtuck, Dan Powell, Dave Shaw, Sydney Harper, Daniel Gimet, Hans Bute, Robert Jimmison, Mike Benoit, Bianca Gaver, Astha Chatharvedi, and Rochelle Bonja.

[255] Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

[256] Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Michaela Bouchard, Lauren Jackson, Julia Simon, Mahima Chablani, Nora Keller, and Caitlin Dickerson.

[257] That's it for the daily.

[258] I'm Michael Babaro.

[259] See you on Monday.