#1571 - Emily Harrington

[0] Joe Rogan podcast, check it out.

[1] The Joe Rogan Experience.

[2] Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

[3] What's happening?

[4] You seem very normal, and that's what always stuns me about people who do insane things.

[5] Like, they're just, like Alex Honnold, I've met him a few times, had him on the show a couple times.

[6] Super normal guy, but does what you do.

[7] Yeah.

[8] I would argue Alex isn't as normal as me. Oh, really?

[9] How so?

[10] I don't know.

[11] You've met him.

[12] I think he's normal.

[13] He's pretty normal.

[14] He's very mellow.

[15] What he does is exponentially more dangerous than what I do, I would argue.

[16] Because there's no ropes at all.

[17] He doesn't use ropes.

[18] I do use ropes.

[19] Yeah.

[20] Listen, it's dangerous.

[21] What you do is dangerous.

[22] We'll get there.

[23] Yeah.

[24] Tell people what you did, because it's pretty crazy.

[25] So I did what's called free climbing.

[26] I free -climed a route on El Capitan, which is a 3 ,200 -foot cliff in Yosemite National Park, and I did it in under 24 hours.

[27] That is a long way to go.

[28] Yeah.

[29] 3 ,200 and...

[30] It's something.

[31] 3 ,200 feet is what I say.

[32] I think it might just be like a little more than that.

[33] When you're halfway there, Emily Harrington becomes the first woman to scale El Capiton via its notoriously difficult Golden Gate route.

[34] Why is that route more difficult?

[35] Well, okay, so...

[36] Is it route or root?

[37] I don't think really matters.

[38] I say route.

[39] Yeah, it should.

[40] So essentially, L -CAP is this giant cliff face.

[41] And there's hundreds of routes up L -CAP, different like pathways you can take.

[42] And right now there's currently only like 15 ways to get up it via free climbing.

[43] Free climbing being using only your hands and feet to ascend and a rope in case you fall.

[44] and I chose the route called Golden Gate, which is more difficult than the route free rider, which people are very familiar with because that's the route that Alex Honnold free soloed, meaning he climbed it without a rope.

[45] Yeah, that seems insane.

[46] So you're less insane than him.

[47] Oh, yeah.

[48] Definitely less insane than him.

[49] Alex is a dear friend of mine, but there are some things I don't understand about him.

[50] Yeah, I don't know if he understands those things about him.

[51] No, I mean, I have an enormous amount.

[52] of respect for him but um what he does is is truly remarkable.

[53] Um, um, you balked your head while you're doing it too, huh?

[54] I could see the, the mark in your forehead.

[55] Um, I, that, yeah, and that's actually the second time I hit my head, uh, trying to, trying to do this.

[56] Uh, last year I had a really bad fall, um, wound up in the hospital, full concussion, the whole thing.

[57] This time, it was slightly less, uh, less serious, but maybe more dramatic because it, it happened like way higher up on the wall.

[58] How high were you up?

[59] 2 ,800 feet, I'd say, like almost to the top.

[60] It was a whole, it was very dramatic.

[61] What happened?

[62] So the day was actually going really well.

[63] I've been trying to do this for a few years now.

[64] Probably, I would say, three years I've been working towards this goal.

[65] And I'd actually done the route in 2015 over the course of six days.

[66] and I really wanted to, like, do the same route in 24 hours.

[67] Can I stop you there?

[68] When you do it over six days, do you sleep on the route?

[69] Yeah, that's how most people climb L -CAP.

[70] They sleep on the wall.

[71] It takes, like, five to seven days or so.

[72] That seems more sketchy.

[73] It's different because there's a lot more logistics involved, right?

[74] Like, imagine you have to, like, live in the vertical world for days on end.

[75] So think about everything you do, like, from when you wake up to when you go to bed.

[76] Including pooing.

[77] Oh, yeah.

[78] You have to poo vertically?

[79] Yeah, we use, like, we use wag bags or, like, you know, little, like, plastic bags, and you, like, go in that bag, and then you put it in another bag and then you put it in another bag, so you carry it in another bag, and then you, like, hang it below everything, and you take it up with you.

[80] Oh, and then you, like, you take it, yeah, you don't leave it, obviously.

[81] I would imagine.

[82] Stuff it in the crack up there.

[83] Is that someone pooing?

[84] No, that's just someone hanging out.

[85] Oh.

[86] That's, like, how you do it when you're like.

[87] live on the wall so you have that ledge um like the michael jackson song what living on the wall know that song no no i'm not familiar it's a famous song um so you sleep in that thing i would get zero sleep i don't like sleep when i'm near the edge of my bed it's amazing how uh it's amazing how exhausted you are at the end of the day and how used to the whole Like, how used to it you get.

[88] You just adjust.

[89] The human body is, like, humans are really remarkable in their ability to, like, adapt to things.

[90] And so it's pretty cool how, yeah, it's really scary at first.

[91] But then the more you do it, the more you're just like, okay, well, this is kind of normal.

[92] Are you, when you're sleeping in that thing, are you fully harnessed in and strapped in?

[93] You sleep in a harness, and you just usually have, like, a loose, like, rope or sling or something attached to the anchor point.

[94] so like if you roll out of you know if you're one of those people that like rolls out of bed at night then yikes you don't fall to your death can you imagine up there just the feeling of like waking up swinging hanging from your harness he's so he has actually see how he has that sling around his waist no that's just like yeah that's like last resort like that's that's Tommy Caldwell he um Tommy Caldwell you're a psycho he uh he free climbed perhaps the hard the hardest big wall in the world, also on El Cap called the Donwall.

[95] And he was up there for 17 days.

[96] So you'd imagine 17 days, like...

[97] Look at all this stuff.

[98] That's like, he's like a homeless person up there.

[99] Yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

[100] You know, like the homeless people have those little camps?

[101] That is a, he's a maniac.

[102] That's a crazy person.

[103] Look at him.

[104] Checking his fingernails.

[105] Yeah.

[106] You see he's also actually missing a finger, which is pretty rare for an elite level rock climber.

[107] Oh, wow.

[108] What happened to his finger?

[109] I believe it was a table saw.

[110] accident home improvement accident oh and so he's using everything but his index yeah he kind of climbs um he kind of climbs like this and and uses the little the nub the nub he's yeah definitely Tommy's one of my true heroes ultimate climbing hero that you have a that is a very small click right yeah of savage psychos that are willing to climb yeah gigantic mountain faces yeah it's a relatively small group I mean, it's growing, climbing is definitely growing in popularity, but it definitely used to be like a little bit, like a small little community.

[111] And I think we still feel that way.

[112] Is there a danger in the climbing world or not a danger, a concern, I should say, of people who are seeing people like Alex Honnold and yourself become famous and get all this attention from these very dangerous climbs, and they want to perhaps accelerate their progress and jump right in and try to do some really risky things?

[113] I mean, I could see that being a danger, especially with like what Alex does, climb without a rope.

[114] I would still argue that what I do is a relatively safe form of climbing.

[115] I climb with the rope.

[116] When I fall, the rope catches me. It's super safe.

[117] When I fall, the rope catches me. Free climbing elk happen a day, what I just do?

[118] did.

[119] I definitely cut some corners and took more risk, but that's an achievement that not many people have done or really strive to do.

[120] And so I think, I think for the most part, climbing is actually a very controlled, very safe activity, and you can make it as dangerous as you want it to be.

[121] Does that make sense?

[122] Yes, I understand what you're saying.

[123] So if you're a person like Alex is deciding, you know, he maps these routes, he does them with ropes, and then he's like, I can do this.

[124] Yes.

[125] And Alex, Alex is so unique in a way.

[126] And I think anyone that watches the movie Free Solo, anyone that talks to Alex understands that what he does is, it's so well thought out and it's so well planned.

[127] And every single decision he makes is very calculated.

[128] And I think that that's just, and I think that that's a testament to what climbing is truly about like we're not like we're not out to go feel an adrenaline rush when we go climbing like if you're feeling adrenaline it essentially means like you messed up like something's wrong um climbing is very much more about like the movement and the challenge and the mental challenge of all of it than then then going out and like trying to get a thrill how did you get involved in this i started climbing when i was 10 years old um i was at i grew up in boulder colorado and my my parents used to take me to the Boulder Reservoir, this lake.

[129] Do you have a Subaru?

[130] I did have a Subaru.

[131] Everyone in Boulder is a Subaru.

[132] I got a Subaru for my 16th birthday.

[133] That's like 70 % of the cars out there.

[134] Yeah, green Subaru.

[135] Because they're so practical.

[136] They work in the snow.

[137] Yeah, I had it for years.

[138] So anyway, my parents took me to the lake, and they had this little festival there.

[139] And I grew up, I'm an only child.

[140] I grew up with my two cousins who were boys.

[141] And we were just like super competitive with each other.

[142] the time.

[143] Like, all I wanted to do was be better than them at, like, literally anything.

[144] It didn't matter what it was.

[145] So we were at this lake, and they had a little festival with one of those tower, rock towers, you know, the ones that they let the kids climb on.

[146] And we all tried to climb the wall.

[147] And I just remember it was like, well, I have to go to the top because they went to the top.

[148] And, you know, there was, like, no other option.

[149] But the interesting thing that happened when I was climbing was it was just this feeling of like, oh, this is what I'm, this is what I meant to do.

[150] Like, it was like, I just felt like I belonged up there.

[151] And I remember the feeling so vividly, even now, 23 years later.

[152] It was like I was scared, but I kind of liked it.

[153] And I just really, I got down and I was like, Dad, I want to go climbing.

[154] Like, that's what I want to do.

[155] I want to quit everything else.

[156] I was a gymnast.

[157] I played soccer.

[158] I was a ski racer.

[159] I was like, I don't want to do, I don't want to do any of that anymore.

[160] I just want to climb.

[161] Why?

[162] What, what about climbing, like, canceled all those other things out in your interests?

[163] I think I think part of it was because I was I was good at it and I like kind of knew that I was good at it.

[164] Like I could feel like I felt I was strong from gymnastics.

[165] I had a lot of body awareness.

[166] Like it just felt like something that I could be good at.

[167] And I really enjoyed just the like feeling of being up high, the feeling of the exposure.

[168] And I really enjoyed the process of like solving it.

[169] Like I loved that cerebral like how how am I going to get to the exposure?

[170] top like how am I going to solve this puzzle so what was the course of progression you started out did you start out just climbing small things with friends and then did you eventually get a coach like how did you get into like serious hardcore climbing I was among the first generation of kids climbers who started out in a climbing gym so like in an artificial setting a lot of people before me started, you know, in Yosemite, outdoors, like in the mountains.

[171] But I grew up like in the 90s and that was sort of like the beginning of climbing gyms.

[172] And so I started in a gym on plastic and my dad took me to the local climbing gym in Boulder.

[173] It's called the Boulder Rock Club.

[174] And he enrolled me in like a kid's class.

[175] And they sort of noticed a little bit of talent, I think, in me. And they invited me to join their junior climbing team.

[176] There's junior climbing teams.

[177] Now every gym in the country has a junior climbing team.

[178] Is there a benefit to learning on plastic first?

[179] I mean, I think access, for one, like if you live in a place where there's no rocks, it's pretty easy to still go climbing.

[180] You go to the gym.

[181] That said, it's very much become its own discipline, gym climbing.

[182] And I use gym climbing still for training.

[183] Like, I think it makes you strong.

[184] It's a really easy, it's a easy way to.

[185] to get a workout in like the body awareness factor you can kind of like distill down all the like the movements and in a really controlled setting it's also super safe when when you say training so like if you're going to practice for a big climb something like you just did do you do you have like a training schedule like do you try to peak like an athlete would for the Olympics or for some other kind of event like how do you how do you train yeah I do I do try to train to train I do try to train so that I am peaking at a certain time.

[186] It's a little bit experimental, though, honestly.

[187] I've been working towards this goal in particular for many years, really experimenting with how to train for it because it does require such a variety of skills.

[188] Like you need the strength and endurance of a technical rock climber in order to climb the pitches cleanly.

[189] But you also need logistical support.

[190] So it has to be like the right time.

[191] year.

[192] You need the right partner.

[193] You need a good weather.

[194] And then you need like the stamina to be climbing for 21 hours.

[195] And so a lot of it, a lot of it was just trial and error for me. But I did spend a lot of time in the gym training on plastic.

[196] And then I would supplement that with like really long trail runs and big days in the eastern Sierra like climbing bigger routes.

[197] And then also there's a mental component.

[198] So I had to sort of get my head back, especially after my accident last year.

[199] I had to get my head back in the game and, you know, feel comfortable leading on runout terrain with big fall potential again.

[200] So there was just like a lot.

[201] And I did, I think this year in particular, because of COVID, I was actually able to focus a lot more.

[202] Like, I think that was sort of the key for me. I stopped traveling.

[203] I was at home.

[204] I had like a routine.

[205] I had like a good sleep schedule going on.

[206] I had like my days that I was training and I was able to like have a really good routine and then when the season started I felt really well prepared.

[207] When you train, do you have someone who is a coach who sets aside a training schedule or do you just do it yourself?

[208] Is it an intuition?

[209] Like you just like have a sense of what you need to train.

[210] Like how do you decide what you do?

[211] I used to have a coach.

[212] Because when I first started climbing, I was basically just only doing climbing competition.

[213] So I just was a competition climber.

[214] So I have a really solid base in training and how to train.

[215] I no longer work with a coach.

[216] But I definitely like read a lot and I kind of like grab bits and pieces of information from my friends.

[217] And so yeah, I do I do have a set training schedule approach that I kind of like build out in my head and try to stick to it.

[218] That said, I'm like pretty, I'm pretty flexible.

[219] But I do not just climb, like, if that's what you're asking.

[220] I do a lot of specific, specific training.

[221] Mostly I try to train what I'm weakest at, which is like pure power, pure strength.

[222] So you're saying that you do trail runs too, and you find that that helps you?

[223] I do think running helps me. a lot of climbers would say that running is like not that good for climbing but because it it makes you tired essentially and it decreases your power and your ability to like really pull hard um like you're not really supposed to go running on your rest days but i do it anyway um and for me sanity wise like i just love running just good for the head yeah yeah what so they think that just exhausting your legs from running will mess you up when you're climbing yeah that the idea yeah i think so i think it just depletes your ability to like pure power you know like if you're doing like a i mean i don't know if you're doing like a weightlifting workout it doesn't see it seems like you're not supposed to go run a few miles before you try to like bench press your hardest weight yeah is there two schools of thought on that because it seems like another school of thought would be if you can condition your body to run and climb you'll you'll have a stronger body than one that just climbs well that's my philosophy yeah yeah and obviously you're out there kicking ass well i mean i'm I'm trying.

[224] I'm still, I'm a work in progress.

[225] Well, aren't we all?

[226] So you basically are self -trained in that sense where you don't have someone who sets a schedule aside for you like today, you're going to lift weights, today you're going to run today.

[227] And so how do you do that?

[228] Is it just based on how you feel?

[229] Do you write it out?

[230] Like what, like when Emily wakes up in the morning and decides today is a what day, how do you do that?

[231] I, it's a lot of how I feel.

[232] Sometimes I plan it out sometimes I write it out um I it depends on how much time I have like if I have a chunk of time to train then I'll build like a training schedule like if I have a month I'll I'll be like okay I'm going to climb two days on one day off for the next month um and then on the first day I'm going to do like more power style training so like shorter workouts high you know like shorter workouts It's higher reps or whatever you want to call it, like fingerboard, bouldering, stuff that really, like, increases my power.

[233] And then on the second day, I'll focus more on, like, power endurance or endurance.

[234] And that's sort of how I structure it.

[235] And I climb, I do hangboard workouts, was it essentially just like hanging on different grips?

[236] Yeah, I've seen those things.

[237] Yeah.

[238] It's a really effective way to train your fingers.

[239] You can't get manicures, can you?

[240] I mean, I do get, I actually do get manicures.

[241] They just don't turn out there well.

[242] you're digging into rocks all the time they chip off really at you really fast yeah i like it i like to feel girly sometimes just recognize that's very temporary in terms of manicure at least yeah it's temporary so when your training do you use heart rate monitors do you register or record your recovery like how do you do all that stuff i don't do that as much i've actually played around a little bit with heart rate monitors um a lot of times when i'm like rest on the wall, that's something I'm really focused on.

[243] Like a lot of times when you're climbing and you get really tired, a lot of times you'll feel it in your forearms, they'll get really like tight.

[244] We call it pumped.

[245] Like there's a lot of lactic acid build up and that causes you to like panic in a way, get a little bit of tunnel vision like and start to, um, essentially you'll just fall.

[246] And so a lot of times what I focus on when I'm like in that place is trying to lower my heart rate like very consciously.

[247] And I've used a heart rate monitor to do that.

[248] Um, but I don't do it while I'm climbing anymore.

[249] It's more just me recognizing that that's what needs to happen and putting effort into lowering my heart rate.

[250] Well, you know, we were talking before with your fiance and we're talking about whoop straps, you know, and like the idea of checking your recovery and making sure, like, do you do any of that where you wake up in the morning and you make sure that you're good to go?

[251] So does that in any way affect like how rigorous your training is going to be?

[252] Do you measure your heart rate when you wake up or anything?

[253] I don't do that.

[254] And it's been for a specific reason.

[255] I actually am, I'm planning on starting to do that.

[256] But because I had this project sort of looming the last few months, I didn't really want to like change my approach because I thought it might mess with me psychologically.

[257] Right.

[258] If you wake up and you say, oh my God, I'm not recovered.

[259] Oh, no, I'm not recovered.

[260] Right.

[261] Like, what do I do?

[262] I try to be really intuitive about it.

[263] I used to be very like data driven and very focused and very like obsessed with everything that I did.

[264] And I honestly, in some ways, I feel like it kind of hindered me. And so now I try to be a little more intuitive.

[265] But I think I think it's a balance.

[266] I'm kind of like going back into maybe I need to start tracking my sleep a little bit more because I'm notoriously bad sleeper.

[267] Because I would imagine, the reason why I'm asking all these questions about training is because I would imagine that when you're doing something that's literally, I know, know you're saying it's relatively safe but for a person like me it's a big chicken shit it's not relatively safe it seems quite insane and and i would imagine you would want every single edge so i would i would imagine that if i was going to do something like that i would want to know exactly how my workouts are affecting my body like okay i i lifted weights this day and then the next day i felt pretty beat up so i did this and then i recovered i check my heart rate all right i'm back.

[268] I'm good to go.

[269] So now this day I'm going to run or this day I'm going to do fingerboard exercises.

[270] I would imagine that there's so much mind -fuckery going on when you're going to do something that difficult that you want to put all these pieces in place the best way possible.

[271] Yeah.

[272] And see, I would argue that all of that is like, it's like too much.

[273] It's like too much data.

[274] And it's like that actually gives me a mind -fuck.

[275] Oh, I see.

[276] Versus me just waking it up and being like, oh, I feel good today.

[277] I'm going to listen to that.

[278] Like that little internal voice.

[279] I think I'm a little bit more.

[280] A lot of people are super data driven, especially in climbing and they write everything down.

[281] I'm a little bit more.

[282] And Adrian, my fiance, is very much like that as well.

[283] Like he loves the data.

[284] And for me, I find it to, I think it messes with me a little bit.

[285] And so to a certain extent, I'm a little more focused on, like, my own mental state and my own, like, psychology and sort of like, you know, trying to, trying to just figure out how to have confidence up there.

[286] Have you ever seen the movie DirtBag?

[287] No. No?

[288] Really?

[289] Oh, it's amazing.

[290] What's it about?

[291] It's about a climber about a guy who literally climbed his whole life.

[292] I forget the gentleman's name.

[293] Dirtbag?

[294] He's a famous climber.

[295] Fred Beck.

[296] Yeah, I know who Fred Becky is.

[297] Dirtbag, meaning that, you know, he would just camp out and sleep on people's couches and climb all across the world and was meticulous in his recording.

[298] It's an amazing documentary, even for someone like me, he has zero interest in doing that.

[299] But he climbed till he died.

[300] Yep, he did.

[301] He just kept going, and it shows it in the film.

[302] You know, you see footage of him when he was younger, whereas, I mean, there he is.

[303] overnight camping prohibited nope fuck you i'm sleeping here yeah he just slept everywhere and it just shows like how bizarre his obsession with hiking and camping and and climbing was i mean he was he just wanted to get out there and and climb all these different peaks and all these different mountains and all these different paths and recorded everything yeah like super meticulously had boxes and boxes of notes, and he would go over the notes and show people routes and all the different things that he learned while he was doing it.

[304] I mean, he was obsessed.

[305] I am just fascinated by people that have a singular obsession like that and carry it for their entire life.

[306] Yeah, I mean, I think climbing, for me, I personally think climbing is very easy to become obsessed with because there's so many different facets to experience it in.

[307] Like, you can go to the climbing gym and just play around on some plastic holds or you can work towards climbing something like Mount Everest and then like everything in the middle and so there's just a lot to do like I just feel like I don't even have I have like a lifetime's worth of things to do and climbing.

[308] That makes sense.

[309] I mean watching that guy watching the Fred Becky movie Becky right yeah watching that movie and seeing his lifelong obsession and seeing other climbers sort of talk about him and the experiences they had with him.

[310] Like, there's, there's more going on than just climbing, right?

[311] There's some sort of strange, it's a chase of a mental state.

[312] There seems to be a mental state of people that climb and want to reach the peaks of these things and navigate these difficult routes that it's, there's some sort of a game going on in your mind and there's rewards there's like this this good feeling that everyone is getting while they're doing this you're like filling yourself up with endorphins when you're accomplishing these things is that safe to say yeah i i could agree with that i mean i i think for me climbing is my passion and it is essentially like my vehicle for experiencing like like the all of the wide spectrum of emotions that we all have.

[313] You know, it's my vehicle for exploring fear.

[314] It's my vehicle for exploring achievement and success and ego and confidence.

[315] And, you know, I think you could really like use anything in order to explore those emotions.

[316] But everyone, I think, in some way is, is trying to find what their vehicle is to explore those emotions.

[317] And for me, it truly is climbing, like up there on El Cap.

[318] Like, I went through the whole spectrum of emotions, the whole day, just up and down in like the most extreme way as possible.

[319] When you have these moments where things don't go well, where you have a fall or when you had your concussion and you got really banged up, overcoming those things, what is that like?

[320] Because I would imagine that it's such a scary thing to do.

[321] Well, maybe for me, I know as much for you, but I'm watching pictures of you, my hand's wet.

[322] Like legitimately, like Alex Honnold freaks me out.

[323] Every time I see videos of him because he's got nothing saving him.

[324] My hands start sweating.

[325] Yeah.

[326] I can't handle it.

[327] No, I think all our hands sweat when we watch him, but, yeah.

[328] So for me, it's, I think, for example, when I hit my head this time, the time I got the scar, I was on one of, my day had gone so perfectly.

[329] Like, I was climbing super well.

[330] Everything was great.

[331] There's your word.

[332] There it is.

[333] Ouchy.

[334] Yeah, that was the rock bottom moment.

[335] So I was climbing and I was in the sun.

[336] I slipped off.

[337] I felt like I was just going to have a really normal fall.

[338] super safe like nothing bad was going to happen and then I hit my head and I instantly like just felt the blood pouring down my face and it was super dramatic and it was super scary and I lowered down and Adrienne sort of assessed me for concussion symptoms and tried to you know figure out if there was anything super serious and turns out that there wasn't really and so it it came time to decide like oh should I keep going or should I try to give up like what you know what what's the best course of action now and honestly in my head i was like part of me was like i don't want to keep climbing like i'm emotionally kind of destroyed and and drained and i don't think i can tell me how it happened like what what was the sequence of events i was so i was climbing this pitch and it's a pitch that i've never fallen on before um and the next pitch is the hard one which is where i think i went wrong because I was sort of thinking ahead like I wasn't focusing on what was happening in front of me I was thinking about the next pitch and I was like I need to get this one out of the way so that I can focus on the hard one and therefore I was climbing the sun when it's too hot like the friction's not as good it's more slippery all those things and I was rushing it I didn't rest enough the friction is not as good when it's hot yeah why is that?

[339] You want it to be cold because your skin sweats oh okay and like the rubber on your shoes isn't as sticky like it's just the heat the heat radiates off the rock it just gets more slippery like imagine like a a granite face just like baking in the sun like everything's more slippery and you're you're all sweaty and so it's just not ideal um and i could have waited but i didn't so i caught i was climbing and i was like kind of traversing and so i was trying to do this move and i rushed it and i slipped and i fell but i had like a piece of gear down into my right and I just didn't anticipate like the physics of how I was going to fall and I kind of fell sideways and I couldn't get my feet out in front of me in time and we watched the footage later it was just like it was kind of like my head just like bounces off the wall like a like a basketball and I must have just hit like a crystal or something with my forehead like some sort of something sticking out of the rock and there was just blood everywhere like head wounds they just you know they bleed they bleed a lot and so there was a lot of blood and I lowered down and I was super bummed.

[340] It was just like my confidence was sort of shattered.

[341] Like I could, I just kept thinking back to last year.

[342] I was like, oh no, my attempt's over.

[343] Everything was going so well.

[344] Like this sucks.

[345] And I was letting myself go to that place of doubt and that place of like, it's over.

[346] And last year when you hit your head, you hit your head much harder?

[347] Last year I fell on the first pitch of the route.

[348] So close to the ground.

[349] But I fell like 50 feet.

[350] and I hit a ledge and didn't, the rope, like, didn't catch me. I hit the ledge because I was, again, rushing and not placing enough protection.

[351] So you fell 50 feet without being caught?

[352] Uh -huh.

[353] Oh, my God.

[354] Yeah.

[355] It was pretty gnarly.

[356] How did you hit it?

[357] I don't remember because I got knocked out, yeah.

[358] But I had this crazy rope burn on my neck.

[359] Oh, my God.

[360] Yeah, it was pretty, I had, yeah, we had.

[361] I had to get rescued, like, full -on ambulance, the hospital, like, spinal injury worries, all that.

[362] It was pretty serious.

[363] It was definitely the worst accident I've ever had.

[364] And it was, I walked out of the hospital that day, which is incredible.

[365] Like, that just doesn't happen very often.

[366] There's me. Dressed up like a burrito.

[367] And what, so this is when they were carrying you to the hospital?

[368] Yeah, that's a roper.

[369] Oh, my God.

[370] I also don't know how that happened.

[371] Oh, wow.

[372] Wow.

[373] And there's no footage of this, right?

[374] You didn't review footage of it?

[375] Well, it was dark when I started climbing.

[376] So there actually is footage of Alex Honnell was belaying me. There's footage of him belaying me. What does belay mean?

[377] Blaying is the person who holds your rope at the bottom.

[378] Oh, okay.

[379] So he was like essentially holding my rope.

[380] But it's a little bit nuanced because the way we were climbing, we were doing something called simul climbing.

[381] we were so we were essentially I was tied onto the top of the rope he was tied on to the bottom of the rope and we were climbing together up the wall simultaneously in order to save time and it's actually it is a more dangerous form of climbing than just like one person climbing while the other person belays them and then they and then I would stop and bring him up and then we'd go on from there like instead we were climbing together whoa that makes me nervous just thinking about it so if someone falls you're kind of connected to them yeah we are always connected to somebody when you fall but if he had fallen it would it's it's kind of a complicated form of climbing that not many people do it's definitely like an advanced strategy and so was someone filming yeah I have a I have a filmer who's making like a movie about me and he was filming because he was there filming that attempt and he was filming Alex as Alex was like sitting on the ground getting ready and have you reviewed the footage yeah what is it like watching yourself it's pretty it's pretty like it's it's hard it was hard i didn't watch it for the first few months i was like i don't really how long does it take to fall 50 feet it would imagine that's a few seconds like a i don't know what's the how fast you fall isn't it like nine point yeah nine point eight meters per second Yeah.

[382] So it's a couple seconds at least.

[383] Yeah.

[384] At least it felt that way.

[385] Oh, God.

[386] So yeah.

[387] So that was something like a mental hurdle to get over for this year.

[388] And then this year, something similar happens.

[389] Only I was way higher on the wall.

[390] But I was really close to succeeding this time.

[391] And I had this part of me was like, well, I just want to give up.

[392] Like I don't want to do this anymore.

[393] I want to be.

[394] done.

[395] Like, I'm tired of this project.

[396] I'm over it.

[397] When you got over the first injury, the really bad one from last year, what was the process of recovery?

[398] Like, how long did it take before you felt comfortable enough to climb again?

[399] You know, I was super lucky.

[400] I think I definitely got away with one.

[401] It was one of those things where I got away with one.

[402] Like, I walked out of the hospital.

[403] I was back climbing.

[404] I took, I think I took a month off, but I went to I went to Ecuador and climbed a volcano with my dad and went skiing and just did a bunch of things.

[405] How long afterwards?

[406] We went to Ecuador like four days later.

[407] What?

[408] What kind of crazy father do you have?

[409] He's awesome.

[410] My dad loves all sports and activities and he's like super passionate about everything.

[411] And this was his dream was to like go climb this volcano in Ecuador and we've been planning it for months.

[412] And I actually felt that was one of the reasons I felt so bad that I got hurt.

[413] It was like, I was like, oh no, I'm supposed to go on this trip with my dad.

[414] And, like, we had, you know, we had this whole plan.

[415] He's been training.

[416] He trained, like, for months.

[417] He's 65 years old.

[418] Like, you know, it was one of those things.

[419] So we went and we climbed the mountain.

[420] And, like, thankfully, I was able to do that with him.

[421] It was really cool.

[422] What kind of, like, physical damage did you suffer in terms of, like, how long did it take for you to recover?

[423] I, honestly, I would say I felt pretty normal within a month.

[424] Real?

[425] Yeah, a little back.

[426] pain.

[427] But concussion.

[428] Yeah, the concussion symptoms were a little gnarly for a little while.

[429] But four days later, you're climbing a goddamn volcano.

[430] Yeah, well, we're headed there.

[431] Yeah.

[432] How long after that before you were actually climbing?

[433] I, I, uh, maybe like three weeks.

[434] So while you were suffering from some, at least concussion symptoms, you were climbing.

[435] Yeah, not recommended.

[436] We went to the doctor and she was like, you can't go to Ecuador.

[437] You shouldn't do that.

[438] And I was like, Yeah, that's nice.

[439] See ya.

[440] When you watch the footage of the fall and you see yourself hit the wall and just the impact and what happened to you, does that obviously didn't deter you from doing anything, but has it changed the way you approach climbing?

[441] Yes and no. I think the reason that it was a little bit easier for me to overcame.

[442] come that hurdle was because it was really obvious what had gone wrong.

[443] And it was really obvious that what had gone wrong was within my control.

[444] Like I simply had not placed enough protection for the difficulty of the route.

[445] It was an easy, easy climbing for me, but it was really dark.

[446] It was cold.

[447] It was slippery.

[448] And I was like, I was just going too fast and not placing enough gear.

[449] But can you explain that to people?

[450] So when you're doing a route or a route, when you're on your way up, you decide, okay, I need to place something here in case I fall.

[451] And do you do it more when it's more difficult?

[452] Exactly.

[453] And you gave yourself a lot of space.

[454] I did.

[455] I gave myself a lot of space because I'd done it so many times before.

[456] And I wanted to, so you only have like a certain number, like a certain amount of pieces of gear, right?

[457] And Alex and I were trying to go really fast and climb the first part of the route within, you know, within a couple hours.

[458] and so I was trying to conserve the gear so I was trying to not use it very often so we could cover more distance in one go because otherwise then you have to stop because he follows me and takes the gear out so I place it he takes it out on the way up and then we meet and he gives it back to me and then we start again and so I was essentially just trying to conserve gear I wasn't placing enough and so the next time around I was like well I just place more gear like I'll just be a little more conservative and so this season it was a lot of it was some baby steps of like going back to that route and just placing a lot of gear so I felt super safe and then you know climbing it in the same style that I was going to climb it with Alex simul climbing it but still placing more gear and then during my try this year I actually told Alex because he was he's definitely more comfortable than almost anyone I know on L cap most people at least feel a little bit of intimidation a little bit of fear like you know there's a little bit of anxiety around it and he's just it's so casual that he was like yeah you should just like you know just run it out like go go all the way like he was basically just wanting me to do it the same way that I was doing it before and I was like you know Alex I'm going to be a little slower this time like I just I think I need that for my head and he was like he felt like you should do it with the same amount of gear that you did before just don't fall just don't fall this time Emily yeah kind of a little bit yeah he was like You know, but Alex, one thing he always says is he's just like, okay, follow your heart.

[459] And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to go slower.

[460] Well, just so the audience knows, Alex told me that he did a route once and on his way up, realized that he hadn't brought any chalk.

[461] So he had to borrow it from someone else who was strapped to ropes.

[462] So he's free soloing.

[463] Yeah.

[464] No chalk.

[465] Yeah.

[466] Says, hey, I don't know.

[467] have any chalk and the guy gives him a bag and said he left the bag at the top so that when they got to the top they could retrieve the bag yeah that's the classic Alex situation yeah what like how do you not bring like if you lift weights you you like chalk it's like it's very important for me too I'm kind of obsessed with having chalk I don't have chalk I just won't go climbing I just can't imagine but I you know I think he's the type of person that um you know going back to like talking about heart rate like I bet I bet when he's in those types of situations like he's so relaxed and his heart rate is so low and he's just he's a different I think he's truly unique you know and I think I think that he just has a different like even brain chemistry than than a lot of us in terms of like how he feels fear and how he can maintain that composure in a very dangerous situation well he's remarkably calm all the time Yeah.

[468] Like he just seems always like on this one plane.

[469] Yeah.

[470] He's got like this like 55 beats per minute that he just stays at all the time.

[471] Yep.

[472] And it's great climbing with him actually because it kind of rubs off on me a little bit.

[473] Like when I climb with Alex, I feel more confident.

[474] I feel more capable.

[475] I tend to climb better.

[476] Even though he kind of gives me shit all the time for being nervous.

[477] He's always like, you're always nervous.

[478] Like you're always stressing out.

[479] But it's actually when I'm with him, I'm like, you know what?

[480] I can chill out a little bit.

[481] I can be on that wavelength a little bit more.

[482] So that's part of the reason why I like climbing with him up there and why I chose him for this project.

[483] Well, that makes sense.

[484] I mean, I guess when you're around people that are, if you're doing a thing and you're around people that are excellent at that thing, it's contagious or at least inspirational.

[485] Yeah.

[486] I mean, I think it's important to like do, yeah, to practice things that you want to be better at with people who are better than you.

[487] Yeah, for sure.

[488] What was it like?

[489] Do you remember vividly your first day climbing after the injury?

[490] Yeah, it was in Ecuador.

[491] I went to this little, like, crag, little climbing area after we climbed the volcano.

[492] And I remember climbing, but I had, like, back pain, you know, and it was...

[493] From the injury?

[494] Yeah, from the injury.

[495] And I just remember thinking, like, oh, I'm still not back.

[496] I'm going to have to, like, maybe I'm not ready yet, you know?

[497] It was one of those, for me, I've always been the person who I don't really give myself a break very easily, and I'm pretty hard on myself.

[498] But this time, I think I learned a pretty valuable lesson that was like, I do need to be a little bit more gentle with myself and be okay with, like, taking a step back.

[499] So I actually tried climbing and was like, nope, not today.

[500] I'm not going to do it today.

[501] And I just took photos for the rest of the day.

[502] And then I didn't climb again until maybe.

[503] three weeks later.

[504] What do you do to try to recover from something like that in terms of like physical recovery?

[505] Do you do take ice baths?

[506] Do you try to stretch?

[507] Do you get massaged?

[508] Like how do you when you feel like beat up or something like that?

[509] How do you bounce back?

[510] Yeah, massage I do as often as I can, not enough.

[511] And then really, really light stretching, like foam rolling.

[512] I have like a little travel lacrosse ball that I lay on sometimes but again I am not as as diligent with it as I probably should be but back but then after I got injured I was really diligent about it I think it's something that you kind of should maintain though and I definitely don't do that now do you do this professionally yeah this is all you do how long has that been the case um I well I guess I I should say that I became like a true professional rock climber when I joined the North Face team.

[513] And that was in 2008 right after I graduated from college.

[514] That's a long time.

[515] It's a really long time.

[516] Yeah.

[517] Yeah.

[518] So you've been a pro for 12 years?

[519] Yeah, 12 years.

[520] And before that, I was like doing a lot of competitions and, you know, had sponsors and stuff like that.

[521] But I was also in school and then I went to university.

[522] And I wanted to be a lawyer, actually.

[523] So I graduated from the University of Colorado in Boulder and I was going to like study for the LSAT and that's when the North Face approached me and I was like okay well I'll try this for a little while and see how it goes like it's a cool opportunity to travel and see the world and keep climbing and then I just didn't Were you hesitant to so like Not at all no But you went to school for something else and then you're doing something physical That's always weird right Because you're relying on your body which can break But you can always go back.

[524] My mindset, I think I was 20 years old.

[525] Like, I didn't really, you know, I didn't have like a super good, like, 10 -year plan or whatever.

[526] You know, I was like, I'll do this for a few years and then I can just go back to school.

[527] Right.

[528] Like, that's great.

[529] But now being a professional athlete, like, has sort of like morphed into this viable option to make a living.

[530] Well, for me at least.

[531] And when you're sponsored, like, how does that work?

[532] Are you required to do a certain amount of climbs per year?

[533] required to make social media posts like how do they how does it work yeah so i work with a bunch of companies but the north face is the main one and it's essentially i mean yeah it's essentially like kind of it's like a marketing job like we are expected i wouldn't say required but expected to um participate in social media um tell our stories like be you know be open about that and then we do a lot of photo shoots.

[534] We do a lot of expeditions, a lot of big trips, and then personal projects as well.

[535] And, yeah, kind of expected to tell the stories of those and to work with the brand to, you know, make it worth their while as well.

[536] So they just kind of want you to be cool and wear their stuff.

[537] Like, you're out there doing cool stuff and you're wearing the North space.

[538] And be active within the brand and like, yeah.

[539] Is that, how does that feel like to be like that's what you do for living.

[540] I would be lying if I said that I didn't feel sometimes a little bit of like imposter syndrome, you know?

[541] How so?

[542] Like, do I actually deserve this?

[543] Like, that happens with everybody though.

[544] Yeah, I think so.

[545] Yeah.

[546] Like, why am I, like, why am I here?

[547] Right.

[548] Like, I don't, I'm not special.

[549] Right.

[550] Well, that's probably why you're special.

[551] Maybe.

[552] Yeah, I don't know.

[553] I think people that, like, actually think they're special genuinely are they, that's a, that's a more of a hindrance.

[554] I think you're better off with, yeah, I think you're better off feeling like shit.

[555] Okay.

[556] I'm going to continue with that then.

[557] I do, because I think it makes you work harder.

[558] I really do.

[559] Yeah.

[560] I think the people that think they deserve success and the people that think they're awesome, I think you don't have as much nervousness or at least.

[561] doubt which forces you to work harder, you know, I think there's, there's a real value in feeling fake, like feeling like, how am I here?

[562] I feel like these other people are, they're really good.

[563] Like, I know so many successful people that think that way, whether it's athletes or comedians or so many people suffer from imposter syndrome.

[564] Yeah.

[565] Yeah.

[566] It's real.

[567] I've experienced it.

[568] Yeah.

[569] I think it's important.

[570] I think it makes you work harder because you just, I think if you just think you're the shit like you're not gonna yeah you're not gonna have that extra edge yeah and i guess like admitting to it it also like makes you more relatable to people i think sure like admitting that you struggle with self -confidence and like imposter syndrome and feeling like you're not good enough all the time is yes it helps other people be like oh yeah yeah cool i feel that way too yeah well it's i think it's valuable for all of us because we we want to know that you're human right yeah you're doing a superhuman thing right you're climbing the face of a giant goddamn mountain it's crazy when someone does something that everyone else is terrified of we want to know like what is that lady like like what is and you're like oh i feel like a fake yeah people like oh she's like me i'm terrified most of their time and i cry a lot that's what it's like yeah see people love to hear that they do they really do it's it's very valuable when you can relate like genuine and anxiety and fears and things to people because you are doing an extraordinary thing with your life.

[571] I mean, how many professional rock climbers are there?

[572] Yeah, I mean, there's a few.

[573] There's not many.

[574] There's more now.

[575] A lot more lawyers.

[576] Yeah, it's true.

[577] Yeah.

[578] It's a lot more now than when you first started.

[579] Yeah, for sure.

[580] I mean, climbing is kind of exploded in popularity in a way with the like the resurgence of climbing gyms.

[581] Like there's climbing gyms in every, every, every city now multiple really good way to get a workout like people don't realize how hard it is to do it's really hard yeah i mean yeah i love it i think it's so cool that people now have access to like experience climbing in in the inner city if they want to i think it's rad and it also now it's an olympic sport so or it will be in the olympics next year it was meant to be in Tokyo how do they do it as an olympic sport they have a particular path that you have to try to climb up and so it's three disciplines because it's a new it's a new sport they've essentially combined like the three main disciplines of competition climbing into one so there's one metal and they combine the scores and they have lead climbing which is with a rope but like the the roots are longer like say I don't know 50 feet or so it's sort of like an endurance challenge and it's like they set a path and that it's meant to be difficult and each person gets one try and whoever gets the highest wins that discipline and then there's bouldering which is like shorter no ropes the movements are like more powerful more explosive there's a little bit of a parkour element there's like a lot of jumping around yeah there you go whoa lots of like big features like volumes where's that guy going yeah exactly where's it's really confusing how do but but but super entertaining if you're hanging in that position what is your next viable option he's gonna throw his feet up to where his left hand is and then he's going to bring his left hand into his right hand Yeah Just that's my that's my estimate That's me reading it And then where's he go?

[582] And then he's going to go that next red one With a sticker on it That one?

[583] It's incredible like bouldering competitions are so cool Oh my God They're super entertaining And they all have that sort of Alex Honnold body Long, lean Very thin But not too thin Like a lot of the women are quite short like quite small.

[584] Really?

[585] It's kind of like climbing is so, climbing is unique because it's really complicated and it kind of caters to all different body types.

[586] In a lot of ways it's better to be taller, but in other ways it's like sometimes better to be shorter because it's always different.

[587] The roots are always different.

[588] I would imagine tall would be better because you have a longer reach.

[589] Yeah.

[590] You can reach up and grab a whole of stuff.

[591] But I can put my feet a lot higher than a lot of people and I'm a lot more flexible than most people.

[592] What do you mean why you can put your feet higher?

[593] Like I can put my foot like above my head if I want to.

[594] Because you're flexible from gymnastics.

[595] Yeah.

[596] Oh, interesting.

[597] And do you maintain that?

[598] Do you, like, work on your flexibility just specifically for that?

[599] I should.

[600] I don't.

[601] There's a lot of this with you.

[602] I know.

[603] Oh, I should get more massages.

[604] You can't do everything.

[605] Oh, I guess.

[606] So that's lead climbing.

[607] Okay.

[608] So that's with the rope.

[609] And you just get one try on the route.

[610] With the bouldering, you get, like, they call them problems.

[611] So you get maybe four or five of those problems.

[612] And you get five minutes on each one.

[613] and however you do on each one gives you a score and then you have speed which is right there same route everywhere all the time and it's just it's speed i've seen some of those speed ones we've watched them on the show yeah bananas yeah it's really fast they go flying super yeah yeah it's really really cool it doesn't seem real like how is a person get up a wall like that i don't know i mean and they also have a different like speed climbers actually have a different body type than a lot of the like sport climbers and boulders because a lot of it is like really lower body explosion yeah um so that's olympics whoops this music to the explosion oh look these guys going yeah so the rope is not helping them that's what's crazy because if you saw someone just make up their way up a wall like that no rope like that is insane yeah so that's speed climbing do you have to be so strong to do that i mean that is just bonkers wow yeah i've never i've actually never um never speed climbed really really not like that just because i've always focused so much on on technical difficult rock climbing and other things like mountains and all these other disciplines what is this person doing that's bouldering oh okay so this is trying to figure out how to she's trying to solve the problem of like she's not she has no rope so if she falls she's just just going to what she's just going to hit the pads the pads are super thick they're almost like a pole vaulting pads kind of oh maybe a little more firm than that okay wow that's wild to say yeah so that's the olympics yeah you're not interested in that i mean i i would have been if i was like 10 years younger you've passed there's no way i could qualify for the olympics really no way why why you say that because it's it's such a different it's a different it's almost like a different sport and you it takes like the dedication to only doing that for years and years and years and I did that throughout my teenage years and then I kind of moved on to other things I would imagine that hand strength is one of the most important things like the ability to hang on stuff yeah that's why I like travel with my hangboard and hang all the time and like do a lot of what do you put the hang board when you travel like door yeah I bring those pull -up bars that you like screw on between the door jam and then I hang it from there.

[614] Wow.

[615] And then you just hang.

[616] So if you're staying in a hotel, you just like hang in the bathroom wall on the door?

[617] Yeah.

[618] Wow.

[619] And do you do it for time?

[620] Do you do reps?

[621] Do you chin -ups?

[622] What do you do on that?

[623] Yeah.

[624] All of that.

[625] There's like little, there's exercises you can do.

[626] There's a lot of research now that's been done on finger strength.

[627] So that's one of the things you use like that?

[628] Yeah.

[629] The one I have is wood because the wood is actually a little bit friendly for your skin um but yeah similar you do different hand positions and sometimes you'll hang for like five seconds and then take 10 seconds off and do it again and then sometimes you put weight on your body one mono yeah mono someone can hang from one finger people can do crazy stuff people can do pull -ups from one finger what one hand one finger pull -ups people can do front levers from like one finger there's all climbers are amazing climbers are super when you like put your body to parallel to the ground.

[630] Oh, I bet you could find a video of that.

[631] I'm nervous now.

[632] So someone can...

[633] There it is.

[634] Oh my God.

[635] I can't do that.

[636] That is freaky.

[637] Jan Hoger is a beastie single finger plank man machine.

[638] I would agree with that statement.

[639] Look at that.

[640] That's crazy that he can do that.

[641] Yeah.

[642] That guy must have ridiculous fingers.

[643] He's one of the strongest climbers in the world.

[644] Yeah, I would imagine.

[645] That's bananas.

[646] Is this him climbing stuff with no feet?

[647] Uh -huh.

[648] Yeah, that's the tendons and all the stuff in your fingers and your hands, like, they must be ridiculous.

[649] But you could just pinkies.

[650] Oh, my God, that's crazy.

[651] I just heard something.

[652] If you lost your pinky, you lose 50 % of the strength in your hand.

[653] Really?

[654] Yeah.

[655] I didn't have confirmation on that.

[656] It's one of those like snapple.

[657] fact type facts i saw on internet recently how's that possible that's a bummer it doesn't seem right because when i draw my bow back i'm only using three fingers but maybe it's like the way it's all connected it doesn't feel weak at all i think it's like if you cut it off not like if you've done other work like to strengthen the rest of your hand or you're i guess i'm drawing my bow back i'm barely using i mean my hand is just kind of locked in place it's more my back and shoulders but i feel like that's not real well maybe maybe it's all like linked back and to hear you know right you're right in your forearms and everything yeah that's what makes sense yeah well you squeeze it your pinky provides half your hand strength wow stick your pinkies out and raise your glasses to toast your fifth finger without it your hand would be half as strong wow that's weird the things are connected in in that way yeah you know it's there's a sort of it's a unit it's not one thing there's a lot going on yeah it's all working together yeah so when you do your hand strength exercises do you have like a routine where you go one two three four you'll work all of them or yeah i do i tend to do um like hand grip positions like i'll hold on to something like this and i'll hold on to something like this and i'll hold on to something like this so you must have like ridiculous hands i mean my hands are strong but they're not like that's one of my weaknesses i think in climbing is my finger strength so i'm always working on it do you have to make sure that your body weight is very light when you do something like that too like do you diet down before you do something to make sure that you're as light as possible yeah it's an it's an interesting subject because climbing is like a strength to weight ratio sport it does benefit you to be lighter but at the same time um it's really easy to take it too far and i think right um and then once you take it too far it can be very bad like injuries yeah weaker um and eating disorders is like kind of a yeah it's definitely a thing in climbing yeah that's what i was going to get to that's and i suffered from it when i was younger when i was in comp heavily involved in competitions like and it's like once you start to experience a little bit of success from losing weight like there's so much more incentive to just like keep going down that road um and i think it's actually a pretty dangerous road and it's something that we're, climbers are starting to talk about more, which I think is super good and super healthy, especially like with the growth of climbing competitions and with the growth of youth, like becoming more interested in climbing.

[658] Right.

[659] That the edge that you get from doing that is not worth pursuing because there's a lot of negative drawbacks to it.

[660] It is and it's pretty temporary and it's not very sustainable.

[661] And, you know, in a lot of ways I feel lucky that I came out of that period and like kept climbing because it's hard.

[662] hard it's hard to to go through that phase and then sort of come out of it and have to deal with like not climbing as well for a while and what does that mean and you know it's it's it's kind of a mind fuck and so that's why that's why I talk about data the way I do because sometimes it's like I just can't I can't like emotionally handle it I need to like take a step back and just be intuitive yeah sometimes just too much data and not enough just being yeah and I was one of those I was one of those athletes when I was younger that I was, like, obsessed with the number on the scale.

[663] I was obsessed with how much I ate.

[664] I was obsessed with every little thing.

[665] And it got to the point where it just almost destroyed me, if that makes sense.

[666] That's a giant problem with people, right?

[667] Yeah.

[668] Just in general, being obsessed with the scale and the numbers.

[669] Yeah.

[670] And if you're in a sport where you're literally carrying your body weight up a mountain, it's not just like so many girls.

[671] girls are obsessed with the scale for whatever reason even if they look good they don't like the number like you look great but you weigh 145 pounds like shit i hate that i want to be 135 like but you don't like this is crazy like what are you doing yeah i think it's complicated because then i think yeah it's society especially as a woman you kind of tie yourself worth to it and then you tie like your yeah your value to society to it and then if you bring in the athletic side it's like a lot to handle yeah um so yeah that's something i've i mean i still struggle with it it's so interesting there's this woman who is on instagram i forget her name but she's a beast and i mean that in the best way she's just a fucking tank she's so strong and i don't know what she does some sort of fitness trainer or something like that but she got on a scale to show that she's 180 pounds yeah she's like i'm 180 pounds all right she looks fantastic like there's no doubt about it she's an amazing shape but she's a big gal but by getting on that scale and showing like hey like fuck your numbers yeah i was like that is that is great and very and saying sounds so crazy to say especially as a man that it's brave of her to show her way because men don't give a fuck like if you're 180 or if a man's 180 or 170 or one like no unless you're trying to get big you don't care or unless you're trying to lose weight like no guy says oh no woman's going to like me i'm you know 195 instead of uh 170 like that's nonsense no guy things like that like a number like you have to like no one want I don't want anybody to know my number but for a woman that's a big issue it's a big issue for sure and it's like I mean I don't weigh myself anymore because I'm just like right I don't I don't need to deal with that it's common for women that have had those issues yeah that just decide you know what I'm just going to be healthy yeah look good and not think about yeah yeah and I that's one of the things that's been there's a lot of things that I actually don't like about social media but that's one thing that I've really appreciated is like women like you're talking about like sharing those things and being like yeah this is who i am i think she gets enough likes yeah like she gets okay yeah she's hot you know she knows what she's doing like she's kind of being brave but also yeah she's she gets enough compliments but you know she's like six foot one or something like that but she's a tank yeah um but i just i admired that she put that number out there she showed it and she was like look this is who I am.

[672] And for a lot of people, that's important because there's probably people that are struggling with their own weight and they see her and they go, oh, okay, I'm going to, I'm to take a little of that.

[673] I'm going to adopt a little bit of that attitude and just don't worry about the number.

[674] But people can obsess with stuff like that.

[675] It's so interesting because it's so sad when you see people that are anorexic, like there was a woman that was anorexic in my yoga class and um I vividly remember being in class you know laying down the mat and looking over and just go like oh no like being looking at this girl who was like a skeleton like what do you say that she was only she was young right she's probably in her 20s and I'm looking at her and I'm thinking shit and then I asked the yoga instructor who was my friend I said do you know her like what is her deal she's like yeah she's you know she's struggling and she doesn't think she is and it's a real issue and I don't know what to do and like what you can't even say anything like what do you say yeah it's hard to I think it's hard to talk about because it's not really talked about it's not my place I don't know her yeah it's so personal it's super personal and I think it's it's a tricky subject for sure like I've had people come to me and be like what do I do like I have a friend who you know it seems like they're struggling and it's it's hard because going through it myself it was whenever people brought it up you get very defensive.

[676] And it's really easy to be like, well, I don't have a problem.

[677] I'm fine.

[678] You know, like, it's, you know, I'm doing this for my sport.

[679] This is what I need to do.

[680] This is how it needs to be.

[681] And so I think it's a struggle sort of like navigating how to deal with that, especially with, you know, friends and family or something like that.

[682] But I think, you know, I think just overall shifting the culture behind it is maybe a possible solution.

[683] when you're when you're training for something big like this do you alter your diet do you have specific foods that you eat when you train or do you just always maintain a healthy diet I'm pretty healthy I also because of my past like obsessiveness about food I try to not worry about it too much also because I travel so much and I love food and I love sharing food and cooking food and eating food it's just I don't like I don't necessarily worry too much about what I eat I'm very healthy eater I like everything I don't I try not to worry about it too much if I want to eat ice cream I eat ice cream good for you now when you go on a long climb like that do you carb load before you do it do you carry a lot of food with you yeah I carry a lot of food with me it's hard for me to eat on the wall it's hard for me to like because I'm I get nervous And when I get nervous, you lose your appetite and all those things.

[684] And so I try to bring like simple foods with me on the wall.

[685] And like a mix of fat, just a, you know, well balanced and easy.

[686] I don't usually bring like meals.

[687] Like I actually brought a burrito on the wall the day that I was going to climb and I didn't eat any of it.

[688] So you didn't eat it all while you were on the wall or you just didn't eat the burrito?

[689] I didn't eat the burrito.

[690] I ate like cereal and nuts and beef jerky and.

[691] candy because I love candy but it's probably good too to get some extra sugar yeah that exactly why yeah and replace the glycogen your muscles and so what is your diet like normally like what kind of foods do you eat when you say eat healthy do you yeah I eat super healthy I love um like I love like pancakes in the morning but like with protein and avocado toast and you know eggs whatever salad you're burning off an insane amount of calories doing that too sometimes it depends on you know it depends on what you're doing if you're free climbing all cap in a day then yes but if you're just going to the gym for an hour and a half or if you're just hanging on the hangboard like if you have a one of like i see you have some sort of a fitness watch on what do you what are you wearing oh i have this um it's new actually idrian got it for me it's a garment it's like a phoenix sapphire oh cool sweet looking thanks um does that measure um output calories heart rate it's meant to yeah it measures your heart rate it measures your heart heart rate.

[692] I use it for like my running and stuff.

[693] I'd be so curious to see how many calories you burn on a 21 hour trip up the side of a mountain.

[694] I'd imagine thousands.

[695] But that's the thing I don't wear it when I climb because you put your hands in the cracks.

[696] Of course.

[697] And they get all stuck.

[698] Right.

[699] That's right.

[700] I should have thought of that.

[701] Yeah.

[702] But the amount like it's also like a mental thing too, right?

[703] Your mind must be burning a shit ton of calories too.

[704] Yeah.

[705] I think there's a lot of mental fatigue that goes on.

[706] We were talking the other day about chess masters and that when chess masters playing these tournaments they burn 6 ,000 calories a day.

[707] Really?

[708] Yeah, they found out that these guys were losing incredible amounts of weight over a weekend.

[709] Because of stress.

[710] Just thinking.

[711] Just thinking.

[712] I could see that.

[713] Yeah, I mean, I guess it makes sense but your brain, when you're calculating, like all these different maneuvers and different places that your opponent can move, his pieces, you're just constantly and get all these r pms going even though you're sitting there your body just burning off fuel yeah that makes a lot of sense actually so i'd imagine some of that's going on too with you because you're physically climbing but you're also thinking you're calculating you're trying to stay calm there's a lot going on a lot going on yeah yeah do you meditate do you have any mental exercises that you participate in i i visualize um um So I'm one of those people, like, I can, I can almost remember every move of, like, the Golden Gate.

[714] Then I'll, like, go, I'll, like, lay in bed at night and, like, go through all the moves over and over again, almost to a fault, you know?

[715] Like, I can remember things really well, and I'll go over sequences, and I'll, I'll lay down, and I'll think about myself climbing, like, executing these sequences really perfectly.

[716] So, you know where all the handholds are, where the footholds are, where the footholds are?

[717] You know what freaks me out about that stuff?

[718] It's like, don't those break off sometimes?

[719] Yeah, it happens occasionally, yep.

[720] It depends on the type of rock.

[721] Like, some rock is more prone to breaking than other rocks.

[722] The way you said that, it's way too casual.

[723] But it doesn't happen.

[724] Yeah, it happens occasionally.

[725] Occasionally, not very often.

[726] Yeah, and especially like the well -traveled routes.

[727] Yeah.

[728] They don't have as much.

[729] What if some giant person was on it before you.

[730] And they put their heavy ass on that handhold.

[731] Yeah, sometimes I worry about that.

[732] I would imagine.

[733] Yeah.

[734] And then you go to grab it.

[735] I'm like breaking my, yeah.

[736] So I was looking at some of the things that Alex was holding on to when he was free soloing.

[737] And I'm like, what, what are you doing?

[738] That's not holding your body weight, man. Yeah, that's, you know, that, that rock is pretty solid, though.

[739] And a lot of people, like, climb that route.

[740] And it's been there for, you know, forever.

[741] And when you're, when you're imagining it in your head, do you like sit yourself down and go through the whole?

[742] Because, I mean, the path takes 21 hours.

[743] hours to do so you can't really go through the whole thing yeah i mean i skip over some of the easy parts but the hard parts i have like really ingrained in my brain um to the point where i think it's kind of hinders me sometimes because i'll go through all the i'll go through the moves and then i'll go through all the things that can go wrong um and then that kind of messes with me a little bit do you write it down i have written it down too yeah you know like draw the path i draw it out only i can understand it but i draw it out it sort of a emily code yeah it's like this I just like tried to draw the holds and then I write where my feet go and where my hands go.

[744] Do you think of this career that you are currently involved in as a life journey?

[745] Is this going to be something that you do your whole life?

[746] Yes.

[747] So you are a climber?

[748] Yes.

[749] Do you have any other ideas of things that you would like to do in this life or you just, this is your career no matter what?

[750] I mean, I think at this point this is my career.

[751] I'm pretty well established as a professional rock climber and I feel yeah I'm not bored I this is what I want I'm super excited for future opportunities for future objectives and goals and things like that and Adrian and I have sort of like built this life together um did you meet him climbing I did I met him on uh I met him on Mount Everest oh yeah both up there risking our lives yeah um yeah and he has a he has a guide he has a guiding business alongside his professional athlete career um and so yeah i feel like we've just built this we've built this life together and we're we're both super passionate and supportive of each other and um you know and i i want to have a fan i think we want to have a family someday it's really cool that you're involved with someone who has the same passion too like they'll understand understand you.

[752] Yeah, it's, it's super important.

[753] And it's important because, you know, both of us go away on, on separate trips sometimes.

[754] And, you know, instead of the other person just like sitting at home, kind of like worrying and stressing out, you know, we kind of understand what the other person is going through.

[755] Um, it just, it feels like we have a really like symbiotic relationship in that way, because we really do understand what the other person does.

[756] Beyond.

[757] I mean, no other person is ever, a person who doesn't climb at all, I would imagine...

[758] It'd be hard, I think.

[759] Yeah.

[760] my female friends that are comedians have the sort of same attitude about normies, what they call normies, like some normal person who doesn't do comedy.

[761] Okay.

[762] They're never going to understand them.

[763] Right.

[764] Like, just that thing.

[765] I have some female friends, like my friend Eliza Schlesinger, she has a husband who's a chef, and it works out great.

[766] But a lot of them, they'll try, like, regular people, and they wind up dating comedians because, like, no one's going to understand them.

[767] We have the same joke in climbing, I think.

[768] It's like, people always say, like, oh, I'd really like to not date a climber.

[769] But then it's like, well, then you got to, like, go do other things besides climbing.

[770] Right.

[771] What are you going to meet those people?

[772] And then when you meet them, what are you going to do with them?

[773] Exactly.

[774] Right?

[775] Like, where are you going to go out to eat, I guess.

[776] Hey, I'm going to go climb for 20 hours.

[777] What are you doing today, Bob?

[778] Yeah.

[779] I thought we could hang out.

[780] Yeah, exactly.

[781] Okay, well, come climb with me, bitch.

[782] Yeah.

[783] Yeah.

[784] Yeah.

[785] The Mount Everest thing is an odd one, right?

[786] Because it seems to be sort of, there's like a weird sort of bucket list thing that's also attached to like a social, there's like a social medal to, oh, it climbed Everest.

[787] Yeah.

[788] I have a very intense love -hate relationship with Mount Everest.

[789] It is like, I was very fortunate to be able to go on an expedition, to climb.

[790] Mount Everest and that's where I met Adrian and you know my life sort of changed directions after that but that said like he goes back to Everest every single year so to guide or for his own personal projects or whatever that may be because he he guides Everest every year and and so for me it's like Everest just became like a part of a part of my everyday life like it's always you're always planning for the next expedition or on the expedition or or thinking about the expedition and so it's like it it just kind of took over in a way for a few years there and i got really really tired of it how many times you've climbed everest i've only climbed it once adrian's climbed it eight times how many bodies did you see um that's a common question i get uh and it it's there are bodies on everest um i maybe saw like two or three um yeah that is one of the most wild things yeah it's about everest it's it's It is wild.

[791] It's something that I think people in that world are pretty accustomed to.

[792] That's a crazy thing to be accustomed to.

[793] Yeah.

[794] And the thing about it.

[795] If your buddy leaves, you're like, he's going to, we lost him.

[796] It's over.

[797] He's right there.

[798] He's right there.

[799] No, no, no, it's over.

[800] Leave him.

[801] You got to go.

[802] No, no, no. He's right there.

[803] I can touch him.

[804] Like, I'm going to reach down.

[805] I'm touching his head.

[806] He's gone, man. We've got to let him go.

[807] He's breathing.

[808] Yeah.

[809] And he's right there.

[810] He's dead.

[811] You got to let him go.

[812] Like, what are you talk?

[813] about there's more than a hundred bodies laying on mount Everest yeah but there's an open debate whether to remove them or leave them be fucking leave them yeah that's kind of what uh yeah it's it's actually super super dangerous is the thing to remove bodies from Mount Everest like you're putting other people in danger to get them down and what's the point and also I think there's something about like the guy the first guy ever climb Everest is still up there right uh what's that guy's potentially it's kind of like a great mystery Oh, really?

[814] Yeah.

[815] Because he vanished?

[816] No, there's a, so the mystery of whether or not Mallory and Irvine summited Mount Everest is still like, it's still out there.

[817] Oh, they might not have ever actually made it to the top?

[818] No, so, okay, so the first, the first, I don't want to mess this up.

[819] The first ascent of Mount Everest happened in like the 50s, I think.

[820] But there's this argument that maybe it happened way back in like the 1920s because there was an expedition to Everest, George Mallory and Sandy Irvine went out to go climb Mount Everest and they essentially disappeared and it's still a question as to whether or not they summited So this is someone who has to Is this people that have actually done it, Jamie?

[821] This is a list of people who are supposedly died climbing.

[822] George Mallory and Sandy Irvine set out to climb Mount Everest in 1924 and they essentially disappeared But nobody's sure if they summited and died on the way down or if they died on the way up.

[823] Because if they summoned it and died on the way down, then they're the first people to summit.

[824] Right.

[825] And so people are still looking.

[826] They actually found George Mallory's body in the 90s.

[827] And as the story goes, he was meant to leave a photo of his wife on the summit.

[828] So he carried a photo in his jacket.

[829] Possible ice axe injury following a fall, body found in 1999.

[830] Yikes.

[831] So people are still looking for Irvine because apparently he had a camera.

[832] oh wow yeah so if you find the can't do you think the footage would be fucked i don't know it's another question see if there's a photo of mallory's body jamie it's kind of it's kind of dark because you see his porcelain white frozen skin exposed by the sun and he's face down i believe i think that's the photo i'm thinking of and he's got these old -timey clothes on too so it's like that's it that's the photo right there that is rough man that photo that photo freaks me the fuck out every time I look at it because that guy is rock solid frozen there like like a piece of stone and he will be there unless climate change melts his ass right yeah I mean that is fucking crazy it's just it's look at his shoes have rotted off oh my god you can see his his the bones of his foot and everything yeah that is hardcore yeah yeah it was a long time ago oh yeah i mean the equipment they had back then was like nothing i know what kind of clothes were they wearing just probably wool yeah exactly yeah it's um i think it's there's a tradition to leaving the bodies there that i think there's something about people that are doing it that know they're risking their life like that's an affirmation like hey there's a guy that didn't make it like yeah what you're doing is crazy this is really hard so i think this it's one of the rare moments in life where i think it's probably there's some beauty to leaving a dead body yeah yeah yeah also yeah and also it just like makes sense it seems fitting yeah yeah well it's also everybody's doing that i mean there's not other than the few douchebags that are just doing it for social cred like there's a lot of people that are just what they're doing is they've decided to test themselves in one of the most extreme ways possible you're literally risking your life to reach the highest spot or not the highest but one of the highest spots on earth it's not the highest right ever's the highest yeah but is k2 the highest in terms of its relation to the ocean or sea level like no that's that's something different.

[833] It's different.

[834] K2 is the second highest, but K2 is considered significantly more technical and dangerous than Everest.

[835] Actually, there's a lot of mountains that are considered more difficult and dangerous than Mount Everest.

[836] And when a guy decides like, hey, you know, I want to show off and be the man who climbs Mount Everest in my neighborhood, do you, do they have a requirement, like how much they have to train for something like that?

[837] Because I know of rich people that are not really climbers that have climbed Everest.

[838] So Everest is really, it's a really interesting one because it's a very, it's, Everest has become very commercialized.

[839] So there's a lot of companies that guide Mount Everest, including Adrian's company.

[840] What's Adrian's company's company's name?

[841] His company is called Alpingglow Expeditions.

[842] Alpin glow.

[843] Alpin glow expeditions.

[844] It's going to be so psyched.

[845] Yes, they do.

[846] What is the website?

[847] Alpengloxpeditions.

[848] Okay.

[849] You can sign up.

[850] You can go to anywhere.

[851] in the world basically and go climb with Adrian yeah um so there's a bunch of companies that guide mount Everest from both sides there it is there's the website are you back country ready yeah back country ski season um and and the guiding guiding on mount Everest has become like very pretty lucrative um and there's guiding from the chinese side and from the nepal side and both of those governments obviously benefit from that um and And so from the Nepal side, it's a little bit less, essentially it's just up to the companies who they take and who they don't take.

[852] So for Alpenglo, for instance, you do need previous requirements in order to climb Mount Everest.

[853] You have to have climbed another 8 ,000 meter peak and have gone through some rock climbing skills schools.

[854] But then other companies will just take anyone if you have the money and if you pay for it.

[855] And that's where a lot of the issues on Mount Everest arise is because you have a lot of inexperienced people up there and you have a lot of inexperienced guiding going on.

[856] And it's not regulated by the government or anything like that.

[857] Like a lot of mountains in the world are regulated by the country that they're in, like Denali, for example.

[858] And so the companies have to abide by a certain set of regulations.

[859] But in Mount Everest, it's not really like that.

[860] So it's a little bit of a free -for -all.

[861] So that's why you hear about like the crowds and the lines and the dead bodies and the people dying.

[862] A lot of that is due to inexperience.

[863] Yeah, I can only imagine.

[864] Yeah.

[865] But experience people die too.

[866] Experience people do die, but less so.

[867] Like for example, like when Adrian goes to Everest, I do not worry about it.

[868] What?

[869] No. Not at all?

[870] Not even a little bit.

[871] Wow.

[872] Because he uses oxygen.

[873] That's another thing, like using oxygen versus not using oxygen.

[874] The one time I did worry about him, he climbed Everest without oxygen.

[875] which is infinitely more difficult and more dangerous.

[876] And so, yeah, experience people do die up there, but less, less so.

[877] Wimhoff climbed Mount Everest with sandals on and shorts.

[878] It's the guy that goes in the breathing guy.

[879] Yeah, I met him.

[880] He did a little clinic with him.

[881] He said, it's too easy.

[882] Yeah, he's a character.

[883] Oh, he's a freak.

[884] He's a real freak.

[885] Like a legitimate freak of nature and will.

[886] Like, he's, uh, he has the, is, does he have the world record for swimming under ice?

[887] He's got some crazy record for swimming under ice and there he is.

[888] Yeah.

[889] Fucking sandals on with an ice pick, no oxygen in shorts.

[890] Wait, is that really?

[891] Wow.

[892] That's crazy.

[893] I've never seen that photo.

[894] Dude, he's a freak.

[895] Like, he's a legit freak.

[896] Yeah, he's another one that's got some sort of different, different wavelength of.

[897] mental strength.

[898] Well, it is mental strength, but it's also breathing.

[899] Yeah, the breathing exercises.

[900] Breathing exercises are so strange because you think, well, I breathe.

[901] Everybody breathes, but you don't realize, here it is.

[902] Hoff has set the world record for the longest time and direct full body contact with ice, a total of 16 times, including one hour, 42 minutes and 22 seconds on 23rd of January, one hour 44 minutes.

[903] This is a different record.

[904] He did something where he swam under ice he swam in the ocean um they cut a hole in the ice and he swam under it to another place yeah 57 .5 meters he set the guinness world record for the farthest swim under ice 57 fucking meters under ice jesus that's long yeah have you ever done like those ice bath things no i've done cryotherapy which is but it's easy it's three minutes yeah but those ice bath It takes your breath away.

[905] It's really hard.

[906] I don't even like cold showers.

[907] No. When I lived in Boston, there was a guy at my Taekwendo gym.

[908] His name was Bob Caffarella.

[909] Everybody was scared of him because he was like an advanced black belt.

[910] And he would shower in the winter in Boston in cold water.

[911] So he'd get done training.

[912] Yeah, it's really good for you.

[913] But I didn't think it was good for you.

[914] I thought it was just a, for him, it was just like a mental strength thing.

[915] He would just get in the water.

[916] He lived in the gym, like literally lived in the gym and taught out of the gym.

[917] Like, he was super dedicated.

[918] but he would turn the cold water on and just get in that cold everybody was like what are you doing we're all scared of him because his mind was so strong because boston is cold as shit that water is barely not frozen and so he's in there with like 33 degree water just having it pour all over his body after training yeah that's pretty cool i mean i think that is there is a test there is something to learn there like the mind ever matter thing yeah and also learning that it's actually beneficial for you and that you really do get something out of it.

[919] Nor epinephrine gets jacked through the roof.

[920] When you get out of there, you feel amazing.

[921] Like cryotherapy.

[922] Like I had Dr. Ron DePatrick and I took her to a cryotherapy place in Woodland Hills back when we were in L .A. And she had never done it before, but she was aware of the hormetic effects.

[923] And so as a doctor, she was really interested in as a clinical research, researchers, interested in what it felt like for her body.

[924] And she got out of there.

[925] She was like, this is amazing.

[926] She starts rattling off all the things that are actually happening to your body.

[927] I'm like, wow, what a good person to bring to a cryotherapy place.

[928] Like someone actually understands the physiological benefits and is experiencing them and then relaying them to you as she's experiencing them.

[929] Wow.

[930] Yeah, it's pretty intense.

[931] Have you done those cryotherapy places?

[932] I've never been to one of those.

[933] The real good ones, I mean, they're all good for you.

[934] We have one here.

[935] We actually have a tank here.

[936] But it's one of these, like, below the neck.

[937] The really good ones is the whole body.

[938] Your whole, like even your head?

[939] Yes, everything.

[940] Because the ones below, what they're using is liquid nitrogen, you can't breathe it in.

[941] If you breathe it in, you'll black out, and people have actually died doing that, like where they've had no supervision and then set it up themselves.

[942] And the ones that they do at cryo -health care in Willand Hills and in L .A., those are all freezing the air.

[943] So they're using the liquid nitrogen to freeze the air and get the air down to 250 degrees below zero.

[944] And then they pump this freezing cold air in the room.

[945] and you could breathe it in.

[946] So you wear a mask, a surgical mask you would wear with COVID, you wear earmuffs, you wear mittens on your hands, and you have to wear underwear, and you wear socks and, like, rubber crocks.

[947] That's actually a big one.

[948] Oh, wow.

[949] Oh, that's interesting.

[950] I've never seen one that big.

[951] Is that out here?

[952] It may be.

[953] There's apparently one out here like that that does full body.

[954] Does it feel like unbearably cold?

[955] Oh, yeah.

[956] Oh, yeah.

[957] Yeah.

[958] You've done it.

[959] Yeah, it does it feel.

[960] It's fucking cold.

[961] How many times have you done it?

[962] Three times maybe.

[963] It's just you're listening.

[964] You can't wait for the song to end because you know you get the fuck out of there.

[965] Yeah.

[966] I have certain songs that I listen to like that I know I'm going to be freezing my ass off.

[967] And you just do three minutes.

[968] Three minutes.

[969] But I did.

[970] There's a guy who was working there that he was always trying to see how much I can endure.

[971] Because he's like, I think you can do more.

[972] I'm like, let's see.

[973] Just a glutton for punishment sort of thing.

[974] So I got to three minutes and 40 seconds.

[975] That's the most I've ever done.

[976] Wow.

[977] It's not enjoyable.

[978] And I do it twice, too.

[979] I do it, and then I take, like, 10 minutes off for my body to recharge, and then I go back in again.

[980] And supposedly, there's a significant benefit in doing it two times.

[981] Huh.

[982] Yeah.

[983] Do you do it, like, before training or after training?

[984] I do it after training, but you really should put a large buffer just for the, like, to, there's a great benefit in your body.

[985] being heated up and your body's natural healing and recovering.

[986] And there's a lot of Bennett, there's a lot of debate rather as to how much time you should spend like post -workout before you get in an ice bath.

[987] And that same applies, that same thought process applies to cryotherapy.

[988] Um, sauna on the other hand, they think you should do right after training.

[989] So if you go like, I'll train and then I'll get in a 185 degree sauna like right away.

[990] So I'll turn the sauna on before I work out and then when I'm done with working out I go right into the sauna and they think that that conveys an additional benefit that's similar to continuing a workout so increase in red blood cells and an increase that almost mimics a low level of blood doping so you get an increased benefit in your cardiovascular your capability and then you also get the heat shock proteins that reduce inflammation so you feel really good so you can do that right after training but they don't recommend ice baths or cryo they used to think you should do it right afterwards and now they don't think so they think should wait a couple hours especially strength training interesting yeah but it's colds fuck when you're yeah 250 degrees below zero you can't believe how cold it is you're like what is this so that's cold it in like an ice bath yeah but not I don't know if it's as uncomfortable Yeah, because the ice bath thing was really cold with Wimhoff.

[991] We had to get in it and like sing twinkle, twinkle little star or something.

[992] And then we were like allowed to get out.

[993] That's hilarious.

[994] Did you do a seminar with him or something?

[995] Yeah, it was like the North Face has these, they call them athlete summits.

[996] And so we all get together for a few days and do activities and like team building stuff.

[997] And Wimhoff came to one of them and he like did the whole, this whole seminar.

[998] And we had these kitty pools with ice in them.

[999] all had to get in and sing twinkle twinkle little star well there's a thing that you can get now that we're going to get here for the studio that is uh it's an ice bath but it's you don't have to add ice to it it's a machine and the machine chills the water right both right to the point where it would freeze and so you get to right about 33 34 degrees and then you climb in this ridiculously cold water and everybody says that that's a better uh option because it's you don't have to go to the gas station and buy a bunch of bags of ice every time you do it.

[1000] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1001] Because my friends that have just a tub when they just throw it.

[1002] Like every time you do that, you got to go to the gas station or wherever you get your ice from.

[1003] Yeah.

[1004] Buy a ton of ice.

[1005] Yeah.

[1006] Do you do any kind of like, do you wear like Norma Tech boots or anything like that?

[1007] Norma Tech boots.

[1008] What are those?

[1009] Those are those things that like are a lot of runners put on.

[1010] Oh, the things you just did it, right?

[1011] It's pretty dope, right?

[1012] Yeah, yeah.

[1013] No, I've seen that.

[1014] I don't do that.

[1015] No. Yeah, I have them.

[1016] I need to use them.

[1017] They sent them to me. I got to put them on.

[1018] But Jamie, you really liked it, right?

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] How long did you wear it for?

[1021] It recommends to do, what is it, like 20 to 60 minutes.

[1022] I think I just did 30 just to try it.

[1023] And then I did another 45 minute session the next day.

[1024] Did you feel better when you got out of them?

[1025] What does it feel like?

[1026] I just, I love the feeling of it.

[1027] Like a leg massaged.

[1028] If someone could massage my leg all day long, I'd pay an ungodly amount of money probably for it.

[1029] All day long?

[1030] I think I have restless leg syndrome, which may or may not.

[1031] be accurate or I looked up how I have it or why what is that I don't know have you know I've heard of it yeah I've heard of it but I don't think I have it's funny I just said reckless leg syndrome which is even more ridiculous but what it how it just the feeling of it bothers the shit it's really hard to explain that's why it's somebody I think people don't think it's real because it's uh like I just can't sit still I can't keep my legs still I feel like I have to kick them or they're still right now right now it's not bothering me but like sometimes at night if I'll be sitting to try to watch TV I can't keep my leg comfortable.

[1032] Is that why you like running?

[1033] I thought running helped it, which the most recent time I did, I ran, and it bothered me at night.

[1034] I was like, well, it doesn't fix it, but that's what it seems like it is.

[1035] It's like you're not moving enough during the day.

[1036] You have some buildup, and that's what it is, but I don't think that's what it is, and there's got to be studies that people have looked into that, but either way.

[1037] Have you ever tried bodyweight squats?

[1038] Yep.

[1039] It doesn't do it?

[1040] There is not a thing I've found to fix this.

[1041] And I've had it since I was like 12 and I told my dad he's like shut up you don't have that it's like commercials that would pop up on TV yeah some pills for it or something and I'm like dad can we try the thing and he's like no you're fine go you're a kid I mean idiot these things the Norma Tech boots I've always I've seen them like that's gonna be the most amazing fix for that feeling it was I mean I'm not saying like I'm a doctor everyone should get them but I love it so after you did it did it alleviate that feeling yeah yeah and every time I'm gonna have it for now on it's like time to put the boots on and lay down whatever and i'll be probably fine and what's dope is you can put the boots on and just watch tv right it's not that loud the machine's not loud it's battery powder things you probably i thought i had to leave it in the wall it's not you can take it anywhere oh pretty cool so you never mess with any of that no no we get something sent to you maybe i should yeah i get some sent to you um but you use a lacrosse ball i love that i use a lacrosse ball it's so phenomenal just travel with it love them it's awesome and you can really dig in with those suckers, especially if you've got a good hardwood floor.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] You can really lay on your back and just...

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] The one that gets me is like the hip flexor.

[1046] If you lay on that?

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] It's super painful.

[1049] Flexibility has got to be very important.

[1050] You said you were really flexible because you're a gymnast, right?

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] And you don't have a routine where you like a daily stretch routine?

[1053] No. No?

[1054] I do stretch.

[1055] I have like one of those yoga glow membership things and I'll...

[1056] What does that mean?

[1057] I have a yoga glow is like a website that you go to and it's like you can watch a video of like a yoga class basically and I'm really bad at going to yoga classes I actually don't like I'll go to the climbing gym but I don't like going to any other type of gym I don't know why I just like to do it alone yeah I'm like very much into doing it alone like I don't like to go lift weights in front of people I'm just like a little bit I guess shy about stuff like that so I just do it in my home I have like weights and I have I do yoga by myself in front of the screen but I also don't like going to classes because they're just too long and I don't think I have the attention span sometimes for a full class so in order to get myself to do it I'll log into this website and I'll be like I'm going to do 15 minutes of hip stretches and I'll just do that and that's how I get myself to do it because otherwise I just I'm just not good at sticking with it I'm so crazy for a person who went all the way up a mountain in a day well I can stick with certain things.

[1058] Well, you seem very self -motivated, obviously, if you're doing all you're training yourself and making your routines yourself.

[1059] So is that like a thing where you don't want other people motivating you or other people like guiding the exercise?

[1060] Because then you're not relying on intuition.

[1061] You're relying on someone to tell you what to do.

[1062] No, I actually love, I love training with other people and climbing with other people, especially other women.

[1063] And it's just so happens that, like, a lot of, like, they don't live in the same hometown as me. But this is a difference between training with other people and being led in a class.

[1064] Totally.

[1065] But you're weightlifting when you do it, you just decide.

[1066] I mean, I don't weight lift that much.

[1067] I do, like, opposition stuff.

[1068] What's that, like, you know, like, as a climber, you're, like, constantly pulling all the time.

[1069] And so I'll do, like, light weightlifting for, like, my shoulders to, like, opposition stuff.

[1070] I don't actually weight lift that much.

[1071] What does that mean, though?

[1072] but like you know like I lift up a dumbbell and just like lift them up like this eyes wise and T's oh yeah I do those yeah okay I do eyes wise and T's and I do them on the TRX too what eyes wise and T's explain to people what you mean it's when you basically make it make an eye a Y or T with your arms yeah so straight up straight up yeah and then the Y and then the T and it's supposed to it's supposed to help with like strengthen your shoulders and like the little stabilizer muscles because I just get nagging like my shoulder constantly feels like it's on the verge of getting injured and it never has well it's kind of amazing you think about what you're doing it's so much shoulder well and you're always putting them in like really compromising positions it's like one of the a common injury for climbers is a shoulder injury what is uh like what what does a climber do to strengthen the shoulder is a lot band work band work i was just going to say i so i travel with like in my climbing pack before i climb, I'll like pull out the band and do like a bunch of band exercises.

[1073] Have you ever seen there's a, there's these bands that are called a crossover symmetry.

[1074] That's what it's called.

[1075] And it comes with like a workout, like a chart that shows all the different various shoulder workouts.

[1076] But they, you, you do them.

[1077] So like if it's on a door or a wall, you like you would put one on one side of the doorway one on the other side so they cross this way and so you do your eyes wise and tease with that you do i do like these where i pull back and then lift up there's all these it's but it's really cool because it has a chart that comes with it that shows all the various exercises and what it targets and if you just make your way it's specifically designed to strengthen shoulders that sounds that sounds cool there it is right there that's um i bought it from rogue but it's really cool too because it has a bunch of different um tension bands like they go up to really like i mostly use like a 25 pound one but they go up high like 40 50 and they're ridiculously stiff to to move but if you can like force yourself that's how i have it set up i have it set it up on um on a sorenx rack but if you can force yourself to go through those routines that you'll see on the chart just make your way down the whole it's a phenomenal shoulder workout that's pretty cool yeah yeah and that's i guess that's the hook for like a doorway yeah so you can like travel with it yeah it's really dope i love it and it's and it's simple like they have it all set up so you just follow these routines and it shows you what part of your back and shoulders that it's targeting and i've noticed a a pretty significant and alleviation of shoulder instability and weakness from it.

[1078] Yeah, that's what I need.

[1079] Yeah, because I've got to imagine, like, that would, when I was asking you, what it's like being 30 -day shoulder fix, there you go, what I was asking about being a professional athlete, I mean, obviously, I know a lot of professional athletes from working in the UFC, but the instability of, or the, it's not instability, but the, uncertainty of making a living with your own tissue and bone.

[1080] I mean, this is your career is reliant upon you not being injured in a sport that's incredibly injury prone, right?

[1081] Yeah, I think it is.

[1082] And I think as I get older, like, I'm going to have to be a lot smarter about how I train.

[1083] And there is a lot of uncertainty.

[1084] Like, I remember when I was younger in my head, that's why I was going to go be a lawyer.

[1085] You know?

[1086] And then also I was like, oh, well, once I, you know, once I decide to have a kid, like, then I'll just be, I might just be done, you know.

[1087] But I think that the way that the job of professional athlete has sort of like morphed into so much more than just performing at your sport, if that makes sense.

[1088] Like, you know, if you're really actively engaged in social media and if you're a good storyteller and if you're a good speaker, there's a lot of other avenues.

[1089] you can take, for instance, like if you do get injured, it's also temporary, right?

[1090] And then with climbing, there's a lot of, you know, it doesn't just stop at like the Olympics, for example.

[1091] I can do what I'm doing now.

[1092] I can go climb big mountains.

[1093] There's a lot of other ways to be a climber.

[1094] And so I think it elongates that career in some way, in addition to the fact that we can essentially become our own brand.

[1095] that makes sense right so you can you can do all kinds of things with that right do you have any aspirations to like expand your brain i hate that that term i know it's like kind of i love what you've done with your brain yeah it's like such an la thing to say it is you're right it totally is but i don't know how else to say it no it's the best way to say it i i just have like a glorified marketing job is what i is what i have well in a way but but it's also sort of yeah but you've earned that position it's not marketing it's like you're you've you've done things that are pretty extraordinary that's not yeah it's not as simple as just a glorified marketing job it's true it's true but I guess that's the imposter syndrome speaking yeah um yeah and I think I do I have aspirations to like tell my story I think in an authentic way that people are inspired by and that people can relate to so are you thinking about writing a book or a documentary I mean, I'd love to write a book someday.

[1096] There is going to be a movie coming out about my whole process on L -CAP and sort of like my journey as a climber, I guess, in the spring.

[1097] Who's putting that together?

[1098] My friend John Glassberg, who owns a company called Louder Than Eleven, he's the one who's been with me the whole time.

[1099] He's been filming me ever since I started climbing in Yosemite, and he was there the day that I did this.

[1100] And he was also the day you fell and got a concussion?

[1101] Oh, so you have all that.

[1102] He has all of it.

[1103] Oh, wow.

[1104] Yeah, he's got everything from the beginning.

[1105] God, that's an editing job, huh?

[1106] Yeah, we actually, Adrian and I, he came to our house a few weeks ago and, like, showed us just, like, the storyline.

[1107] And it's just, like, four hours of, like, my life leading up to that moment.

[1108] So they're definitely...

[1109] Is that weird to you to see?

[1110] Yeah, it was pretty weird.

[1111] Because he got all this footage.

[1112] He, like, went to my parents' house and got all this old footage from my dad, you know, like, from the cassette tapes.

[1113] and just I don't know what they call when they like digitized it all and yeah so I was watching like all this stuff from when I was a baby to like when I my dad built a climbing wall in my garage and surprised me with it which I completely forgot that even happened and he just like showed it to me and I was like oh my gosh it was trippy for sure that's wild yeah so is he going to do that and try to sell it to Netflix or something along those lines I mean yeah I think that's I think that's like an idea at this point it's like his first documentary you know it's kind of like his his uh like his his baby at this at this point he's like pretty involved pretty invested in it so you have to see dirtbag then you have to watch that i can't believe you haven't watched it now that you now that i've i've seen like the cover of the film i've totally heard of it i know i know what you're talking about it's a sad story in a way in a lot of ways because the guys Because, like, the people that were around him sort of admired him at the same time pitied him.

[1114] It was like, there was, because he, you know, he would eat like old food and, you know, he never had any money.

[1115] Yeah.

[1116] And he's always just laying around.

[1117] And it's weird.

[1118] It's a weird.

[1119] But also, again, this dedication to this one singular obsession.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] You know, and that's kind of like a, that's kind of how the history of climbing in Yosemite began is with like the dirt bags.

[1122] The people who went there and all they did was that's all they wanted to do was climb.

[1123] And so they would just like go scrounge for food at the cafeteria and like sleep out in the forest and just go climbing and do whatever they could to climb.

[1124] That's such a weird thing.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] For the average person that wants stability in their life and wants security and wants a 401K plan and wants.

[1127] you know, a mortgage and all the things, the trappings of modern culture to see someone who's so completely rebellious that they literally want to sleep in the forest and climb mountains.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] In a way, you know, that's what made them happy.

[1130] They like figured out what made them happy.

[1131] But you just got a big smile thinking about that.

[1132] Yeah.

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] Because that's romantic to you, right?

[1135] Yeah.

[1136] I mean, I'm thinking about it in terms of like how far climbing has come as well, you know?

[1137] And I think a lot of those people from back in the day, they were just like, they saw themselves as like, outcasts of society in a way and I think you just as with everything everything changes right and like with the evolution of climbing like you now have people like me who are like making a living climbing and you know I do have a mortgage and I'm just like making it work you know and in a way I often wonder if those people like look at me and sort of like feel like I've like sold out or like I'm not like core you know if that makes sense oh because you have sponsors yeah because I've like I've made it work and I've like worked the system again imposter syndrome but I've like worked the system to get to a point where I'm like actually making a living and and managing you know and it's just an interesting it's an interesting thought there's like a little bit of like I don't know I feel a little bit sensitive to it like oh no why not like just stay offline I didn't sleep in the forest enough days I didn't sleep I didn't struggle eating fucking wood chips yeah yeah I I get it.

[1138] I would imagine, like any industry, it's filled with people who try to sort of malign and misrepresent who other people are and they get jealous and they get petty.

[1139] Yeah.

[1140] I mean, I think it's mostly like social media.

[1141] Like the one thing I learned through all of this, the last few weeks, were a little bit of a whirlwind.

[1142] Because just because this whole thing went a little bit bigger than I thought it would.

[1143] I would imagine.

[1144] So, yeah, I learned to, like, not ever log in to Twitter.

[1145] Twitter's, like, the worst one for some reason.

[1146] Yeah, because it's all just opinions.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] At least with Instagram, it's, you know, photographs.

[1149] And then people comment on the photographs.

[1150] But it just seems to be the tone of Instagram seems to be markedly more positive.

[1151] Yeah, that's what I've realized.

[1152] And that's mainly, that's the one I use the most is Instagram.

[1153] me too um but i logged into twitter for the first time in like three years or something and i was just like oh no i got to get out yeah you can't read it it's just there's so many people there that are just filled with hate yeah but at the same time i mean i guess it's it's a good way to get news i suppose yes it's a good way to get news it's not a good way to read anything about you though no the mentions you got to stay out of that one no i learned that one this should be a way to make that invisible.

[1154] Make that little thing invisible.

[1155] So you don't have to look at it.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] I don't even like, because like it's a little like a haunted house.

[1158] Like open the door.

[1159] With all these crazy people that are just angry.

[1160] And there's a thing also where it's almost like having a box of rocks next to a bunch of windows.

[1161] It's like people just want to throw a rock.

[1162] Like fuck Emily.

[1163] That bitch.

[1164] You know like there's people that just are like that.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] There's some people that.

[1167] And they're at work.

[1168] and they're bored or they're angry.

[1169] Yeah, people just want to be heard, I think, in a lot of ways.

[1170] Well, yeah, there's a lot of that.

[1171] That's what we all want in a way, I guess.

[1172] Yeah, sort of.

[1173] Be seen and heard.

[1174] Until you are.

[1175] Yeah, until you are.

[1176] And then you're like, okay.

[1177] And then you're like, this is not what I wanted.

[1178] I'm going to go hide.

[1179] Well, that is the peril of trying to be in the public eye.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] Like you're making an attempt at garnering and, enormous and unusual amount of attention yeah for sure yeah it's and it's it's scary honestly like it's almost scarier than like doing what i did it's or or climbing in a way because it's it i mean i'm just i'm like a sensitive person i think and so throughout all this i've had to just learn to be like well a little bit tougher as long as it it doesn't change you right it's like that's the the danger that you would be more averse to risk or you would be somehow or another you would change like you know we were talking before the show about Hollywood like moving out here has made me realize how tainted the entire city is by the desire that people have to be chosen to be on things to be chosen to be on a television show or chosen to be in a movie and so you become what people want you to be.

[1182] You pretend to be what people are looking for.

[1183] You shape your opinions and your look and your dress to what you think is going to be more likely to get you success in that world.

[1184] And that is a mind virus that infects the entire city.

[1185] The problem with any kind of interaction with people on social media is that you can kind of change how you behave so that you like mitigate the amount of hate you get or you mitigate the amount of jealousy or mitigate the amount of pettiness and you can it can sort of it can fuck up your own journey you know like your own there's there's there's pros and cons like don't get me wrong there's there's definitely some pros in reading criticism and because you can apply it to yourself and learn whether it's accurate and also realize like oh this is like a person that's like really sad and they're trying to hurt all these other people so you can sort of take pity on them and it gives you a better understanding of just human psychology in general but it can also it can also change the way you express yourself like you could be more guarded for sure and that that that can be a problem too because then you you're not as free and ultimately we all want to be free to express ourselves we all want to be free to show who we really are and I think the more you intertwine who you are with other people's ideas and other people's expectations and sort of try to be everything for every person, you kind of water who you are down.

[1186] Yeah, I would agree with that.

[1187] I mean, I think, yeah, and the more people have eyes on you, the more they're going to have their opinions about who you are or who you might be.

[1188] people misrepresenting what you did too.

[1189] Exactly, which was, which was hard for me because, so essentially, yeah, go ahead, explain that.

[1190] So essentially, uh, one news article, I think it was like, I don't know how it happened, but essentially like the domino effect of like someone changed the wording of the, of what I did, um, and said that I was the first woman to free climb El Cap in a day, which is a gross misunderstanding because the first person to free climb El Cap in a day was a woman.

[1191] And her name is Lynn Hill.

[1192] And she did it in 1994.

[1193] And in climbing, that is, like, one of the most historic, groundbreaking achievements in climbing's history.

[1194] Like, Lynn Hill is an absolute legend that everyone knows who she is.

[1195] And so, you know, in a way, like, I got accused of, like, erasing history by, like, claiming to be the first woman.

[1196] Do no fault of your own.

[1197] You did nothing.

[1198] I didn't do anything.

[1199] But I did.

[1200] I tried really hard to correct it.

[1201] But for me, it was a little bit mortifying because.

[1202] I grew up in the same town as Lynn.

[1203] Like I was brought it.

[1204] I knew her like growing up and she was an absolute hero of mine.

[1205] And I knew of her achievement as like this was, there's not that many sporting achievements that are that groundbreaking and that pioneering that are like owned by a woman.

[1206] Like she did this before any human thought it was possible.

[1207] And for me like coming into climbing as a 10 year old, I recognize that immediately and saw climbing as a space for women and a space where women could.

[1208] really excel.

[1209] And so I, you know, managing to free climb L cap in a day for me was personally very important, but also I just felt so much pride because like I got to kind of do something that Lynn did 26 years ago.

[1210] That's so rad.

[1211] And then all of these stories came out saying that I was the first woman.

[1212] So it was just kind of me being like, oh no, like I didn't, I didn't do that.

[1213] I didn't, I don't want it to be this way.

[1214] And thankfully I like know her and I got to call her and be like, I'm so sorry.

[1215] really care at all obviously well it's just we should be really clear it's nothing you said it's no i didn't say it's the way the editors decided to phrase it yeah and i think it's just like um yeah it's just the way that media works sometimes like they basically changed the heading of like that i was the first woman to free climb golden gate they just did a a shitty job of researching it yeah and so you were the first woman to free climb golden gate in a day in a day which is a really difficult path.

[1216] Yeah, it's a difficult path.

[1217] Lynn free climbed to the nose, which is a different route.

[1218] And then free climbing elk happen a day is just in a day is the important part because it's, it's an achievement that like, I think only maybe like 25 people have done in history and only four women.

[1219] And it's something, it's like the epitome of like big wall free climbing.

[1220] So the hate that you got was unfortunate.

[1221] and misguided.

[1222] Like, it's just, but people do that when someone achieves something remarkable.

[1223] And if there's any flaw in the way it's being represented, they're like, oh, this girl, she's a racing history, she's a fraud, she's a this, she's that.

[1224] But you didn't do anything.

[1225] All you did is just do what you did.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] You climbed the mountain.

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] And to be clear, like, I wasn't that bummed about it, but I was sort of like, oh, okay, this is how it goes.

[1230] Like, I'm getting a lot of attention and I'm going to have to deal with a little bit of negativity because that's just how the world works.

[1231] Has that been cleared up of people kind of understand that this wasn't you?

[1232] I think people have cleared that up for sure.

[1233] I mean, there's definitely a little bit of like, oh, you should have been more on top of things.

[1234] But, you know, that's just people not understanding how this stuff works.

[1235] Yeah, I mean, you don't even know how many articles are being written about you.

[1236] That's the problem.

[1237] There's so many articles.

[1238] Viral, yeah.

[1239] I put it up on my Instagram and when I did, I saw at least 10 different articles about it.

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] I was trying to see like what was right and what was wrong and it's just one of those things where someone does something extraordinary and it becomes clickbait.

[1242] Yeah, exactly.

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] So that was the big lesson about social media and hate for you.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] And I think, you know, I don't think it's really changed much.

[1247] It's definitely made me feel, I honestly, like, I feel like a little bit of responsibility in a way.

[1248] Like I feel like I represent climbing to a broader audience right now.

[1249] now, especially right now.

[1250] And so, like, I want to do a good job of that, and I want to present it in, like, an authentic and honest way.

[1251] Um, you know, but at the same time, like, I'm pretty aware that there's always going to be haters and like, that's just life.

[1252] That's how it goes.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] Just don't engage.

[1255] Don't read the comments.

[1256] Don't, don't read the comments and definitely don't respond to them.

[1257] Yeah.

[1258] Does North Face or any of these other companies that you work with, do they have like social media coaching or anything do they yeah yeah yeah we do some social media coaching um like at those athlete summits i was referring to um and you know now it's but that was back in the day now like a few years ago now i just feel like everyone is so accustomed to social media everyone knows how to like how to work it um the one thing that they're starting to get into that i'm still not quite there yet i feel like i'm a little old for it is tic talk good Good for you.

[1259] I don't.

[1260] My 12 year old, you met her.

[1261] She's a tick -talking fool.

[1262] Yeah, the dancing.

[1263] Stay away from that.

[1264] Yeah, they're all, they can't help themselves.

[1265] I just, like waiting in line at Starbucks, TikTok and.

[1266] I still don't, I can't.

[1267] It's just one too many things, I think.

[1268] You don't need it.

[1269] You don't need it.

[1270] It's odd.

[1271] But it's interesting, you know, I think it's interesting when things become viral.

[1272] I'm always fascinated by when something becomes, like some things are just so boring to me. They become viral.

[1273] Yeah.

[1274] I don't understand.

[1275] And some things are just like the guy on the skateboard drinking cranberry juice singing along to Flewwood Mac.

[1276] Like so simple.

[1277] So simple.

[1278] So simple.

[1279] I mean, I think that was, I feel like that was just like a moment.

[1280] He was, it was a moment in time that like people were really looking for something positive.

[1281] Yeah.

[1282] It was like so lighthearted.

[1283] People love that song.

[1284] It just went over really well.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] Weird, right?

[1287] Yeah.

[1288] But that to me is so fascinating that of all the things, that people are doing online all over the world that this guy just chilling on a skateboard with a bottle of cranberry juice, that's it.

[1289] I thought it was great.

[1290] I did too.

[1291] I was like, oh, it just made me smile.

[1292] You know, so you send it to your friend.

[1293] Yeah.

[1294] It makes them smile.

[1295] Yeah, I mean, I don't know how many millions of people saw it, though.

[1296] It's crazy.

[1297] That's fascinating to me. Like, what pops?

[1298] What catches people's attention?

[1299] What goes viral?

[1300] I think it's just like a combination of like where we are as a society, like what we're kind of like craving and if someone like provides that with or without knowing it.

[1301] Right.

[1302] Of course, because it was like right at the elections and everyone was like, ah, this guy's falling.

[1303] Yeah.

[1304] And I feel like that happened a little bit with my story too.

[1305] Like I climbed the day after the election.

[1306] Everyone was like, that's so crazy.

[1307] You climbed the day after the election.

[1308] Like, what was that like?

[1309] And I was like, well, I just didn't have to doomscroll all day.

[1310] Like I didn't want to look at my phone.

[1311] What are you talking about?

[1312] Like that's what everyone should have done.

[1313] That is the way to do it.

[1314] Yeah, everyone should have gone hiking.

[1315] Just do something.

[1316] Get out of the house.

[1317] Get out of there.

[1318] Do people ask your opinions on politics and do you sort of like avoid answering those questions?

[1319] Because there's no winner.

[1320] No. It's like no, like no matter, you're going to piss somebody off.

[1321] Totally.

[1322] Yes.

[1323] Yes, they do.

[1324] And I do, I do share my opinions about politics.

[1325] And I do try to do it in like a very diplomatic way that's not, you know, I, I do have, I have like, I have a political stand on things.

[1326] I care about the environment.

[1327] I care about climate change.

[1328] Like, I'm a part of an organization called Protect Our Winters.

[1329] Like, you know, I, that's like one of my causes that I care about.

[1330] And so I'm pretty vocal about that.

[1331] Especially because you're really into skiing.

[1332] Yeah, I love skiing.

[1333] Well, there's no skiing if everything gets warm.

[1334] Exactly.

[1335] You know, and that's sort of like our avenue for talking to people, you know, like if you love the outdoors, you should care about the environment.

[1336] And, you know, and so people do, but I'm also I'm one of those people that I really and Adrian and I talk about this all the time like we try to listen to all the different sides and we try to have I think that one of our problems is like being so divided and not being able to understand one another yeah and that's the part that worries me the most is like the hatred that we all have for the other side and that that us versus them type of thing and the inability to understand each other is hard or even want to understand each other yeah yeah yeah to just label each other the other side as the enemy no matter what and yeah and the weird thing to me is I know people personally that used to be like heavy -duty left wing and they would argue like vehemently and passionately and then they switched over and then they're arguing passionately against the left yeah And I'm like, you just might be a fucking complainer.

[1337] Yeah, that's fair.

[1338] There's good and bad in all people, in all ideas and in all ideologies and in all political bends.

[1339] But what gets me is that what you talked about, that the climate and the environment could in any way be political.

[1340] That is so bizarre to me that we would have a division left or right that wouldn't or would appreciate the environment.

[1341] Like, God, isn't that like a part of being a fucking human living on a planet?

[1342] Like, don't you want the rivers to be clean?

[1343] How is that political?

[1344] How is it political to not want the oceans to be filled with plastic?

[1345] How is it political to not be concerned about the death of animals because of oil spills?

[1346] Like, what is political about that?

[1347] That seems so nuts.

[1348] That seems like something like universally, as a human, we should say, hey, first, take care of the earth this is the only one we have this is where we live let's abandon left and right and all this nonsense independent libertarian stop earth take care of earth yeah and i mean i think a lot of it obviously a lot of it has to do with money a lot of it has to do with where we get our energy from and who's in charge there and i think i think one of the biggest things i think a lot of people don't appreciate the earth is what I'm saying like I think a lot of people don't have the opportunity to go outside they definitely don't like you do and and and and to appreciate the world in the same in the same way that I've been able to to do so or you have um so I think you know one of the important things is to is to show people what like nature has to offer like what being outside has to offer like the outdoors how much it can contribute to and benefit your life.

[1349] life.

[1350] And then once you show people that, then they'll start to care about it.

[1351] Because if they don't get to experience it, then they don't care about it.

[1352] And I think there are a lot of people out there that are pretty isolated from the outdoor experience.

[1353] You know, they live in inner cities.

[1354] They don't have access to the outdoors in the same way that we do.

[1355] They choose to just play video games in their spare time.

[1356] Whatever that may be.

[1357] I think, and that's one of my like goals in climbing, I guess, is to make it more accessible.

[1358] to people.

[1359] Let them experience it, experience what it does.

[1360] And then they'll start to care about the places that are outdoors and they'll want to protect them.

[1361] That's a great desire to educate people.

[1362] I think it's titantically bizarre that we have a term that we call outdoors.

[1363] What do you mean?

[1364] It's strange that we have a thing like outdoors.

[1365] That's outdoors.

[1366] like indoors is normal outdoors it's the earth yeah it's nature but in our our mind we're like oh outdoors like what do you mean out no it's nature the earth like we're so accustomed to being inside a building yeah that we think of everything outside of buildings as outdoors yeah like it's a weird term yeah indoors should be what's bizarre yeah agreed and outdoors is seen as like this really extreme.

[1367] I think we need to kind of like get away from like the idea that outdoors is like so extreme and it's like for people who like do what I do.

[1368] Like going outside is something that's super normal and we should all be doing it more.

[1369] It should be a yeah, you do do it a lot and it's amazing and it's great.

[1370] The expression outdoors is a weird expression.

[1371] Yeah, I agree.

[1372] It's just like it's assuming that everyone is constantly protected by a house and a shelter.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] And when you go outside of the shelter, like, oh, my goodness, you're outdoors.

[1375] You're out there.

[1376] No, that is the real life.

[1377] That is the real earth.

[1378] That's the real nature.

[1379] This is where everything else lives except us.

[1380] And we're like, going outdoors.

[1381] It's a strange.

[1382] Oh, I love the outdoors.

[1383] You mean you love nature?

[1384] No, the outdoors.

[1385] Nature.

[1386] You mean woods and wilderness?

[1387] That's what you mean.

[1388] well i like to call it outdoors it's a strange right it's a very strange expression you mention it it is weird it's one of those strange things you just get accustomed to and you forget how bizarre it is until someone brings it up it's like one of the things if you got high you'd think about it and you're like what yeah what a weird expression it's a strange expression that's commonplace yeah i could see that yeah it's that's actually nature that's what everything's supposed to be living in everything's supposed to be in the woods and the mountains and the wilderness and lakes and streams and the ocean and we call it outdoors I mean because I think a lot of people do just spend their time inside you know they go from their home to their work maybe not even go to their work anymore they're just at home yeah well and I think that's one of the reasons why people are so depressed I think it's I don't think it's a natural environment for any biological creature and not for us even though we've created these environments and we've made them really cool and made some nice houses and, you know, great big TVs and cool shit to do inside the house.

[1389] I don't think it resonates with our actual biology.

[1390] I think our bodies have evolved over millions of years to be experiencing all sorts of things that are a part of the wilderness and nature.

[1391] The sun and the wind and trees and visual, just these visual cues, seeing mountains.

[1392] there's something about like beautiful like landscapes in nature that make you feel really good right like if you if you're like on a trail and you you crest a hill and you see mountains and a lake a beauty like in the sun the rays of the sun are hitting the trees and it's all green and lush and you see birds flying around you're like wow it makes it's like a drug like it hits you because your body is evolved, human beings evolved to experience these things.

[1393] And when you see these beautiful, gorgeous, lush environments, generally speaking, it means like habitat where animals live and where you can find food and where there's going to be fresh, clean water.

[1394] That's that lake.

[1395] And all those things, there's like these cues that are biologically embedded in our DNA.

[1396] Yeah, agreed.

[1397] That's why we should care about that stuff.

[1398] Yes.

[1399] But the fact that that's political is we're nuts we're a crazy species we're a crazy animal yeah that that is uh that's odd to go there to those places is rare but that's how we evolved we're supposed to be in those places like that's i really firmly believe it's one of the reasons why people are so detached and they feel so disconnected and so unhappy yeah it's get if you're in a fucking subway and you take the subway to a building and you sit in front of a cubicle staring at a screen and then you get in the subway and you head home and you're in another building you're never around trees you're never around a river you're never around eagles and you never see a deer walking by you never see those things like I just think your body's deprived of it the same way you would get scurvy if you don't get vitamin C yeah but so but so what do you think the solution is get the fuck outside but what if you just like live in an inner city like in a park yeah a park Exactly.

[1400] And we need more spaces like that.

[1401] Wim Hof says we should literally hug trees.

[1402] Yeah.

[1403] He's like, you should hug a fucking tree man. Yeah.

[1404] That's what he's saying about.

[1405] He's like, it's good for you.

[1406] You really, you need it.

[1407] You really do.

[1408] Like, people that go to Central Park, you can see, like if you go to New York City, when you see them in Central Park, they're fucking relaxed.

[1409] Like, they're like, oh, like you just sit there and there's trees and there's grass.

[1410] And is there's at least some life, some actual natural.

[1411] true life.

[1412] Yeah.

[1413] Yeah.

[1414] I think and also I think that's one of the things that's come out of COVID a little bit.

[1415] I think people are actually going outdoors more.

[1416] Not in L .A. They won't even let you go to the fucking park.

[1417] They're crazy.

[1418] I mean, I've noticed the climbing areas and the trails and everything where I live in Tahoe, it's so busy.

[1419] Because people have gotten out of the city and they're coming up and they're getting outside and they're going hiking and like just even friends who own like gear shops.

[1420] They say that they're actually doing really well because people are.

[1421] buying bikes and buying hiking shoes and getting outside because they're not in school, they're not in work, they're not working, there's nothing else to do.

[1422] So that's maybe like one tiny little silver lining to everything.

[1423] People are discovering it.

[1424] Well, it's like you were saying that people do adapt, like you're saying about people sleeping on the side of cliffs.

[1425] People are very malleable.

[1426] They do adapt and it sucks that people are going through all this.

[1427] But the good thing about it is that there are people that are becoming more active.

[1428] There are people I mean it's not everybody and unfortunately some people can't do this but a lot of people are getting in shape a lot of people are even though they can't go to a gym they've gone on YouTube and looked up body weight exercises and started a routine and lost weight and got fitter and started you mean there's a ton of yoga videos you can just get off YouTube and they're free and you can just you don't need any money you just need a phone or an internet connection and you've got something to do and you know bike shops I know a bike shop that's near me that was saying that they literally have a hard time keeping bikes and stock now.

[1429] Yeah, that's what we're hearing in our town as well.

[1430] That's cool.

[1431] Yeah, it's really cool.

[1432] I think it's awesome.

[1433] Yeah, more people out there doing stuff.

[1434] Yeah.

[1435] I think it's great.

[1436] I hope that people also realize that they've been, you know, for a lot of people, they've been dedicated themselves to something that can be taken away from them.

[1437] And that to just recognize that this whole experience that we have, on this planet is very temporary and so many people are chasing material things and chasing a position in the company and then the company goes away and then you realize like oh well this was all fragile and i thought it was permanent and it's it gives you an opportunity even though it sucks it does give you an opportunity to sort of readdress how you interface with life and change what's important to you and change where your priorities are and change just maybe your path forward and recognize that, hey, this can happen again.

[1438] And maybe I should be more prepared, but also maybe I should reassess what I'm doing with my life.

[1439] Yeah, what's important to you, where your priorities are.

[1440] Yeah.

[1441] Do you anticipate doing this until you're like the dirtbag guy?

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] So you can't climb anymore?

[1444] Yeah, I'm going to climb forever, I think.

[1445] I'm going to climb forever.

[1446] I'm going to, yeah, for sure.

[1447] Beautiful.

[1448] I love it.

[1449] Listen, keep kicking out.

[1450] Thank you.

[1451] Thank you very much for being here.

[1452] And let everybody know what your social media is so they can say nice things.

[1453] Okay.

[1454] Do I just say it right now?

[1455] Yeah, yeah.

[1456] Just tell everybody.

[1457] I'm Emily A. Harrington at Emily A. Harrington.

[1458] And that's on Instagram.

[1459] It's on Instagram.

[1460] Yeah.

[1461] But if you just search it, you'd find it on all the other ones too.

[1462] Okay.

[1463] Well, thank you, Emily.

[1464] I really enjoy talking to.

[1465] It was a lot fun.

[1466] Thanks.

[1467] All right.

[1468] Bye, everybody.