David Copperfield

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert, experts on expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Padman.

[3] Hello.

[4] Hello.

[5] This is an exciting one for me. As you love magic.

[6] So much.

[7] I had no idea the scope of our guests.

[8] No, I was pretty aware of that.

[9] I remember you going to New York and you were inconsolable.

[10] You were bawling during one of them.

[11] I cried so much.

[12] No, but I had no idea the scope of success.

[13] Our guest, David Copperfield, had.

[14] I did not realize.

[15] He is the number one live solo entertainer ever.

[16] Yeah, it's bonkers.

[17] Amazing.

[18] David Copperfield is an Emmy Award -winning illusionist with 11 Guinness World Records.

[19] He has a new book called The History of Magic, which profiles 28 of the world's most groundbreaking magic while also pulling back the curtain on his longtime secret project, a museum preserving the history and art of magic.

[20] Where he was at during the interview.

[21] Yeah, so we got to take a little peek.

[22] pink in the background.

[23] Very interesting.

[24] Please enjoy David Copperfield.

[25] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[26] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[27] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[28] Okay, so you're envious of my chair, which is quite a compliment.

[29] So my question is, why don't you own one?

[30] Well, I probably should.

[31] Send me the link.

[32] Okay, yeah, I'll fire it over.

[33] Are you seated in your museum?

[34] Is that where you're at?

[35] I'm in the entryway, which is the replica of the magic shop where I started my career at.

[36] We actually recreated it.

[37] You know, the whole brick -and -mortar magic shop is kind of becoming less and less because of the internet, for better or for worse.

[38] So recreated this here.

[39] And, you know, magicians come here and they cry when the lights come up and they see, oh, the lost world of actually going to a place to see magic demonstrated and, learning in that way.

[40] It does exist, by the way, but we kind of recreated the old school version that I had when I was a kid.

[41] Monica is, I guess I don't even know what word would describe best her.

[42] I love magic.

[43] Like on a cellular and celestial level.

[44] Yeah.

[45] Yeah.

[46] I love a magic show.

[47] Well, you've got to come to Vegas.

[48] When you come to Vegas, you'll see the show and the museum, which is what this book is about.

[49] You know, the book is kind of a tour of a museum that a few people get to see because of all the secrets.

[50] So scholars get to see it and co -hosts of podcast, famous podcasts.

[51] Most importantly.

[52] How far out of Vegas is it?

[53] Is it a hike for you?

[54] No, it's about 10 minutes.

[55] The MGM where I perform.

[56] It's about a half hour from my house.

[57] Okay, I had some fantasy of you being at like Area 51 or something because of the secret nature.

[58] But okay, that's good.

[59] You didn't drive three hours to be where.

[60] No, but it's disguised, though.

[61] It's disguised as a men's clothing store.

[62] My parents passed away.

[63] I'm kind of recreating stores, this magic shop, but also the front of the place is a men's clothing store.

[64] So that's my secret entrance.

[65] Well, I was going to say, yeah, your father was a haberdasher, which is, I don't get to say that often.

[66] In fact, I don't think I've ever got to say someone's father was a haberdasher.

[67] I don't think he ever said he was a habitusory.

[68] He owned a store.

[69] The internet says he's a haberdashery.

[70] So I guess in that way.

[71] A men's clothing store, town and country for Corby's Men Shop.

[72] And that was in New Jersey?

[73] Yeah, and it was in Matachi, New Jersey, where I was born.

[74] I grew up there, and then the mall came in, the Menlo Park Mall.

[75] Menlo Park was where Thomas Edison invented the light bulb.

[76] But it was good.

[77] That was about a half hour away from where we lived.

[78] And how far away from New York was that, or New York City specifically?

[79] I was about 45 minutes to an hour away from New York, so I had the best of both worlds.

[80] I grew up in Mayberry, basically.

[81] Yeah.

[82] The town was a really small town, just very, very homie.

[83] everybody knew each other, but I could get on the bus and go to New York City, and there was Broadway and the magic shops and all that there.

[84] So I had really the best of both worlds, you know, and my parents let me go to New York City.

[85] I was 12 years old, and this is the time where there were commercials on TV.

[86] It's 10 p .m. Do you know where your children are?

[87] But my parents let me go there for some reason.

[88] I don't know.

[89] I guess they wanted to get rid of me or something.

[90] This was like what, 1966 -ish or something or 68?

[91] Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, in that time period.

[92] Yeah, much different vibe.

[93] Big, different.

[94] It was deep throat and behind the green door.

[95] Yeah.

[96] You'd walk away from the buildings for fear of being sucked into the buildings by somebody.

[97] You'd walk right on the edge right by the street, and you'd walk fast, look down, look around.

[98] And you kind of learned how to keep your defenses up.

[99] But it was really awesome because the Broadway was amazing.

[100] So were you going there at 12 because you had gotten admitted to this Magic Academy?

[101] Is that why you were going into the city or was that elsewhere?

[102] Well, going to the city early wasn't because you're talking about the Society of American Magicians had meetings in New York, the parent assembly in New York, which was really cool, a bunch of old dudes.

[103] And they let me in when I was 12 years old.

[104] But going in the city, I would do two things.

[105] I would second act Broadway shows.

[106] Greece was playing.

[107] And Adrian Barbeau was Rizzo.

[108] And Jeff Conaway was Danny Zucco.

[109] Oh, wow.

[110] Yeah, yeah.

[111] And Travolta was like a small part.

[112] So they kind of switched when the movie thing came along.

[113] They kind of switched drools.

[114] But this is the time where I wouldn't see the first half ever because I didn't want to pay.

[115] So people would come out of the theater to smoke their cigarettes when smoking was healthy back then.

[116] Yeah, yeah.

[117] They smoked their cigarettes, and I'd sneak in with them and I'd see the second half of every show that had a second act.

[118] A little night music, a show called Over Here with the Andrews sisters.

[119] And I used to, I loved it so much.

[120] I loved theater.

[121] And I started to hang out with Bob Fossey, believe it or not, when I was a kid.

[122] Got to spend time with Bob Fossy and Ben Vareen because it was a show called Pippin that really inspired me because they had a whole opening scene called Magic to Do, which I kind of helped them a little bit with the magic in it.

[123] That's how you met Bob?

[124] I was going to say, how do you get introduced to Bob Fawsey?

[125] Well, I kind of go backstage and I hung out with Ben Vereen who befriended me. And through that, I made some suggestions on the magic in the show.

[126] And Jules Fisher, the brilliant, brilliant lighting designer, did a whole number, this magic to do number.

[127] And so it was kind of my way in to kind of hang out with those guys and watch.

[128] studying.

[129] And you were 12?

[130] Well, hold on.

[131] No, the story's so bonkers.

[132] It almost feels apocryphal.

[133] Because this is hard to believe, but at 16, you taught a course at NYU in Magic?

[134] Is that possible?

[135] How does that come about?

[136] It was possible.

[137] Actually, the owners of this shop that has been recreated here, Irv Tanin, suggested that I teach it.

[138] NYU, they get the calls in the magic shop.

[139] We need somebody to teach a course in magic.

[140] And they recommended me, you know, I was 16 at the time.

[141] And all the kids were older than me. and I called the course the art in magic that was very ooh the art in magic not of magic yeah yeah yeah oh I wish I could have taken that yeah there's imagine though I got imagine being like a 19, 20 year old and you walk into your college class and here we got a 16 year old guy he's going to run this thing that's got I literally just said the other day because we were watching the 60 minutes thing about this random college and there was a little kid and it looked like she was a professor and I was like oh you can't trust any institution where there's a kid as a professor.

[142] But not true.

[143] Not true.

[144] Well, let me ask you, I have a stereotype in my head about a lot of artists, particularly guitar soloists, guys who get incredibly good at guitar solos or women who do, that's going to require untold hours in a bedroom by yourself.

[145] You can't acquire that skill without that.

[146] And magic, I would say, is the same.

[147] You really got to put the time in in your bedroom by yourself.

[148] And so I have a bit of an idea of...

[149] Why in the bedroom?

[150] Why are we going to the bedroom with this?

[151] Well, because you shan't want anyone to see you as you're learning and you don't want to be embarrassed.

[152] You want to get great and you don't want anyone to see you.

[153] So would you find that that personality type is kind of consistent through magic?

[154] I also have had some magician friends in my life and they were pretty introverted as kids.

[155] They spent a lot of time in their room and I was wondering if that is true for you.

[156] Yeah, I think so.

[157] I found I wasn't good at anything else and magic was my way of being accepted.

[158] I was a pretty good inventor of magic.

[159] I went to the public library and I'd get the magic book.

[160] And on the first page, it would show the effect what the audience gets to see.

[161] You know, the ball will disappear this way.

[162] And I wouldn't turn the page to see the method.

[163] Yeah.

[164] And I would try to make my own method, figure out what to do to accomplish that goal.

[165] And a lot of times I invented my own thing.

[166] When I turned the page, it was something new.

[167] I liked that process.

[168] That was good.

[169] When I was 12 years old, I invented a piece of magic called Mentopo.

[170] pen, because it was a mind -reading pen.

[171] All the pen.

[172] And it was in the Tarbell course in magic, which is a very, from the 1920s on, the esteemed kind of encyclopedia of how to learn magic by Dr. Harlan Tarbell.

[173] And my effect, my creation, got accepted.

[174] So I was a published magic event when I was 12.

[175] Again, my baseball sucked and my hockey sucked.

[176] I had no other skill.

[177] But that, for some reason, I was good at that.

[178] I'm interested in your life, you were good at, you know, your personality and theater and so forth.

[179] When you found your way, both of you, I mean, you both are so good at what you do, did you suck at everything else, too?

[180] What's the deal?

[181] Well, I think what we're doing here, the skill set is people, getting to know people, being able to connect with people.

[182] And so that allows you to be good at a lot of things, I think, because in life, that's kind of the whole trick, right?

[183] Well, I would say Monica's a master assimilator.

[184] So she was not among many brown kids in Georgia, and so you become a master assimilator.

[185] You start to read people and see what they want from you and need from you, and you can be that.

[186] Yeah.

[187] For me, I found that magic was my way of communicating, my way of getting accepted.

[188] The sport thing wasn't so easy for me. I did it, but I wasn't great at it.

[189] But we're all trying to find our way, right?

[190] In life, we're all trying to find that way of communicating from a magician, a great magician has to be curious, like a scientist or a physicist.

[191] You have to be curious about things.

[192] I'd rather be interviewing you, honestly, than this.

[193] But it's really true, because I really like to learn things like the sponge.

[194] But I think in your description of being an assimilator, magic was my tool.

[195] Monica, what was your tool to assimilate?

[196] Hold on.

[197] Before we move on for that, I do have to inquire, is it that I don't really feel comfortable selling myself, David.

[198] And I don't really want you paying too much attention to David, but I have all this happening in front of me. And that is the thing that you're going to pay attention to.

[199] And that's the thing I can control.

[200] I mean, was there any sense of that?

[201] I think that's pretty, wow, I should be on a couch lying down.

[202] That's the goal.

[203] Maybe, yeah, maybe I think we find our crutches.

[204] We all have our crutches.

[205] For you, it was comedy and being funny.

[206] For me, when I started as a ventriloquist, I was a crappy ventriloquist, but the kids liked me when I did it.

[207] And I wasn't very, very good at it, but I knew it wasn't good, but I found maybe there's a way of having people accept me. And when I did ventriloquism, the kids liked it.

[208] It was like bizarre.

[209] And I suddenly went, wow, you can get in front of people and they'll accept you by having prepared something.

[210] I got a reaction out of preparing something.

[211] And I think I said, okay, that was a system or formula that made me feel that I wasn't just some idiot with nothing to give.

[212] Okay, no, I do want to hear Monica's answer, but I just didn't want to leave that.

[213] Because I find also musician, we talk to musicians sometimes that, too, the guitar becomes that thing.

[214] So the guitar is between them and everyone else.

[215] And so, and I'm going to do something so exceptional on this intermediate between us that that's what you're going to focus on.

[216] And without it, they feel naked.

[217] So it's like if you don't have your props and your things that you're doing your gag with, then it's just you.

[218] And I think so much of great art comes from the insecurity of like, I need something other than me to present.

[219] That can be why you want to act.

[220] That can be why you want to be funny.

[221] Fascinating.

[222] Monica, you're up.

[223] Hmm.

[224] Uh -oh.

[225] How did you manipulate all these people into liking me?

[226] I mean, I guess weirdly there's some parallels like curiosity.

[227] I think directing energy towards that person as opposed to making it about me, asking them questions, falling into their world a little bit.

[228] I didn't want them to know too much about me because that was the part I was trying to escape from.

[229] Yeah, I think that's it.

[230] Well, yeah, if you start and say what's your favorite band and they say, flock of seagulls, it's really easy to go like, oh, yeah, they're fantastic.

[231] You make a mental note.

[232] Like, yeah, I got to check out Flokicca's.

[233] But if they ask you first and you say, Whale and Jennings.

[234] I mean, it wasn't manipulative.

[235] It wasn't like it was lying to people.

[236] Like, yeah, I like what you like.

[237] It was all happening very naturally, but I think I just made it about the other person.

[238] Listening is good.

[239] Listening is good.

[240] I think listening and hearing what people have to say makes them feel like you care about them.

[241] And actually, if you really do care about them, that you're really winning then.

[242] If you really do care about that flock of seagulls, and this is before you had the Google machine to really turn your back and figure what the hell you're talking about.

[243] You really had to go to the library.

[244] Remember libraries?

[245] Wow.

[246] I think for me as a artist, I listen.

[247] One of my good things is I listen to the audience.

[248] I really listen to them.

[249] I feel, well, what they want to hear.

[250] It's not about fooling them or amazing them.

[251] It's about listening to them.

[252] What are they really?

[253] And all my magic is really rooted in life experience and relatable stories and all that.

[254] It's not unlike what you do listening.

[255] And that doesn't exist in magic very much, by the way.

[256] It's the guy with the props.

[257] You know, they just lead with that.

[258] I don't feel naked without the props.

[259] I don't.

[260] Well, how about originally, though?

[261] Like now, I mean, my goodness, there's never been a more successful magician.

[262] So now I would imagine there's a level of confidence.

[263] But from the get, and this dovetails into one of my questions, which is we've had many performers that we've interviewed that went to camp as kids and had they not had that experience where they went somewhere and everyone was kind of similar and they got to really be confident and learn how to be confident and learn how to feel it included and I wondered knowing you had gone to camp like, is that a brick in David?

[264] I went to a camp called Camp Harmony.

[265] It was a day camp and they did something that was really impactful to me. When a counselor would have to go on a two -week vacation, Indians would come out of the forest.

[266] You can't say this today.

[267] Back in the day when that was unfortunately okay.

[268] We've learned from our history, right?

[269] But at the time, Native Americans came out of the forest and kidnapped the person.

[270] And we'd spend the next two weeks trying to find that counseling.

[271] Oh, wow.

[272] Aside from the unacceptable learning experience that we learned today, but the story element of it, having that story, was a really amazing thing.

[273] Being immersive theater, basically, changed my entire path, and it stuck with me. So those little anchors that you have in your life that inform your work and your art, that's one, I could tell you.

[274] Learning how to swim, okay, that was pretty good, but not as fun as finding the kidnapped counselor.

[275] You know, that was more immersive.

[276] The island experience now is informed by my Camp Harmony thing.

[277] I do James Bond events there, helicopters appear on the beach.

[278] We do laser tag like that.

[279] It's immersive.

[280] If people want that, it's all elective, there's a mad nurse.

[281] There was an old story about the mad nurse where she would eat people's flesh.

[282] And if people like that, we have a mad nurse that comes around.

[283] We've got yeties that come out of the thing.

[284] It snows on the beach.

[285] So it's taking...

[286] This is an acid trip without the acid.

[287] This is like...

[288] No drugs.

[289] Don't do drugs.

[290] No. Right.

[291] But you don't need that.

[292] Every single thing in my childhood, I've used it.

[293] I'm not certainly not alone in that.

[294] You find what made your draw drop as a child or made you want to get up in the morning and say, okay, that was good.

[295] How do I use that in what I'm doing today?

[296] And you have all these moments.

[297] On the Ed Sullivan show, there was Topo Gijo.

[298] You guys are too young.

[299] Topo Gigi, anything?

[300] Google me. No, no. Don't know to -Obo.

[301] America was captivated by this.

[302] It was an Italian mouse that would be his little tiny character.

[303] And Ed Sullivan, you know, Ed Sullivan, right?

[304] Ed Sullivan's...

[305] Oh, yes, yes, the Beatles.

[306] Right.

[307] So right before the Beatles would come on, Topo Jijo would come on, a magician of Tobu Jeejo.

[308] And you watch this, and it's amazing how it moves and how amazing.

[309] Ed Sullivan, who's kind of a stoic, not a lot of personality there, but he came to life with his little Italian mouse.

[310] Oh, wow.

[311] And it moved with about six people behind him, making this maybe an eight -inch tall mouse move in an amazing way.

[312] ways.

[313] And you would like watch the screen.

[314] And Life magazine would show how it worked.

[315] America was like wrapped with this thing.

[316] So that was something as a child.

[317] Whoa.

[318] And some of your older listeners will remember this Italian mouse.

[319] It still exists actually.

[320] So with that in for my show, I do a little thing in my show that sort of based on that, based on that memory of that.

[321] You know, you search for what's going to be good.

[322] What can I really invest my time in to really make something special out of?

[323] And that was the seed of a thing I do in my show.

[324] it occurred to me how does a kid learn magic because the magicians never give you the secrets so I guess now I kind of got a little bit of an answer there were some books available to you in the library but in general how does one learn something that's kept secret because if you want to do something you can do it if you can dream it you can do it as corny as it is it kind of is true if you search now we have the internet you search in the internet you can find all kinds of things back in early 60s it would be going to the library or then discovering that this magical magic stores.

[325] When I walking to this place that I'm in now, I thought I was in heaven.

[326] It was like, wow.

[327] And when I take magicians in here, they get really wrapped up in that because that memory of opening a door that you believe that if you were able to afford to buy this proper or that property, you could be on the Ed Sullivan show too.

[328] It's not true.

[329] It not exactly happened, but it was kind of a false comfort.

[330] So many magicians actually are cover bands.

[331] They kind of do what other people have done before.

[332] I made an effort since I was a child, to be different and invent new things.

[333] And unfortunately, people don't know the difference.

[334] Laman public doesn't know the difference if it's something you've invented, something that you've created, or something that you just bought in a store because it has an element of fooling you.

[335] Comedians have the same radar.

[336] And a lot of great comedians have taken material.

[337] A lot of great ones have.

[338] And they get called out in and they pay off people and so forth.

[339] But in comedy, you kind of start to know about it.

[340] There's words and so forth.

[341] You're not misdirected by being amazed.

[342] Yeah.

[343] I guess the person's the product more.

[344] In comedy, right?

[345] Yeah, yeah.

[346] It's not about props and so forth.

[347] And I try to not make it about props.

[348] I try to make about me or the story or really, truly about them, the audience.

[349] They're the most important thing.

[350] I've lasted so long because of that.

[351] I really do care about what their dreams are.

[352] And I try to replicate their dreams as part of the show.

[353] But being amazed is a very powerful thing.

[354] is a great gift that magic gives.

[355] And the famous Arthur C. Clark quote, I'll get it wrong, but basically it's saying that every piece of new technology is magic.

[356] Any new technology that looks amazing is indistinguishable from magic.

[357] And I think that's a great, amazing thing that gets abused by magicians, but also used by magicians properly.

[358] Okay, so I would imagine, again, back to my really over -generalized stereotype, that going from the room, To me, I can't imagine the scariest part is the illusion you're going to perform, but it's having a stage presence.

[359] So I'm curious, what was harder for you?

[360] Because at 18, you go and you do The Magic Man, and you're singing, you're dancing, you're doing magic.

[361] And of those three things, what is the scariest, and how did you bolster yourself or find your confidence to be on a stage as the lead?

[362] Well, Doug Henning came before me. You know the name, Doug Henning?

[363] No. Okay, there you go.

[364] He was a gigantic star on Broadway.

[365] He did the show called The Magic Show.

[366] Ivan Reitman, you know Ivan Reitman for Ghostbressers and so forth.

[367] They were kind of college friends, and they did a show in Canada called Spellbound, and that got brought to Broadway.

[368] And it was called The Magic Show.

[369] And The Magic Show, music by Stephen Schwartz, who wrote Pippin and wrote Godspell and wrote A Million Incredible Movies.

[370] did the music for it.

[371] He was living my dream, because my dream was to be an actor, magician.

[372] I wanted to be Gene Kelly.

[373] I wanted to be Fred Astaire.

[374] I wanted to be Frank Sinatra.

[375] I was good at magic, but I wanted to tell stories with my magic.

[376] I wanted to move people, like Sinatra move people.

[377] I wanted to transport people like Gene Kelly, Orson Welles, who did magic, by the way, but Citizen Kane.

[378] This is what I focused on.

[379] This is my dream, but I was good at magic.

[380] Well, this Doug Henning guy comes down here, who can't sing, Can't really act, but did decent magic.

[381] Some of it's store bought, but very good magic.

[382] And they did a whole Broadway show about him.

[383] And I hung out with him backstage.

[384] He was around during the Pippin' time.

[385] And he told me I was going to be his understudy.

[386] And he's my buddy and so forth.

[387] Behind my back, he went to the producer, who was Edgar Lansbury, who is Angela Lansbury's brother, and said, don't hire David Copperfield because he's too tall for this stuff.

[388] I'm not as tall as Dax Shepherd, but I'm...

[389] You know, I'm six feet and he was too tall.

[390] I'm so too tall.

[391] Anyway, that kind of backstabbing thing that happened really fueled me. It was a very positive thing.

[392] I really respect him for doing that in a strange way because hearing that, finding out about that really lit my fire and I found my own path to do it.

[393] So the good thing he did was he opened a big door for me in another way.

[394] He had big success on TV.

[395] He had a special, his first special, had a 50 share.

[396] A 50 share.

[397] Oh, that's unimaginable.

[398] That means that half of everybody watching TV watched that show.

[399] That's crazy.

[400] And years later, the two hosts of the show don't know who the fuck he is.

[401] Amazing how it is.

[402] We're going to tell you really quick.

[403] We had Leno on.

[404] We had Leno on.

[405] And he was telling a story about doing a stand -up in Vegas.

[406] And he saw three workers carrying this Elvis statue.

[407] And he goes, what's going on?

[408] You're going to repair that or something?

[409] And the guys said, oh, no, no one really knows who Elvis is.

[410] So they're having us to take it down.

[411] And he was like, well, that should tell you everything you should know about your own celebrity.

[412] Like, if Elvis's statue's coming down, no one's going to fucking remember me at all.

[413] There was a big film director went to inner city schools and asked about who Muhammad Ali was to kids in inner city schools.

[414] They didn't know.

[415] You know, how is that possible?

[416] The point is, really, what makes you last?

[417] I don't know what makes your legacy last.

[418] To me, at the end of the day, it's got to be good work is all that matters.

[419] Anyway, just do good work and what happens, happens.

[420] Do you care about a legacy real quick?

[421] Because I don't at all.

[422] I won't be here to enjoy people relishing in my accomplishment.

[423] So why do I even care?

[424] I'm not going to observe it.

[425] So if I can't enjoy it, then why do I care?

[426] I think that's very healthy.

[427] Okay.

[428] Well, it's just selfish.

[429] I'm just saying it would be one thing if I could sit about it.

[430] and watch them like me, but I won't be able to watch it, so why do I care?

[431] I think that's good math.

[432] I think it's well -crafted logic.

[433] I can't say that I don't care about it.

[434] I do care about it.

[435] I'd like to make some kind of a mark that moves things forward.

[436] I do.

[437] I'm motivated by it.

[438] I like that.

[439] I can argue a reason for you that I wouldn't argue for me. Why?

[440] Well, A, you've written this book, The History of Magic, right?

[441] Houdini.

[442] Like, Houdini represents something to some people that set them on a path for life.

[443] And so probably the benevolent notion that you might be one of those people that younger generations learn about and excites them to a path, that has a utility.

[444] I don't think I was ever a big enough comedian or a big enough podcast or anything that I'm going to inspire people in 50 years.

[445] But Houdini did.

[446] So there is some notion that you could achieve Houdini -ness.

[447] And that's relevant.

[448] Well, you have, I think.

[449] I mean.

[450] Well, time will tell.

[451] But yes, he's certainly very well positioned to.

[452] Who knows?

[453] I think when you're good at something, you try to find a way to use it to make a difference in some way.

[454] Maybe that's a false hope, but I've tried to use magic in therapy.

[455] There's a project magic program.

[456] Use magic in therapy.

[457] So how do you make a difference there?

[458] So I work with doctors.

[459] And it does work, and it really is a real thing that could actually help people with motivation, coordination, and fine motor skills and gross motor skills.

[460] and with communication skills I've been talking about with socialization skills.

[461] Magic is a great device to transfer into learning how to get dressed again, for example.

[462] If you've had a stroke, a rope trick on motivate a patient to tie their shoes again.

[463] In a head trauma, a patient that has been a motorcycle accident can get to know their family better because they have something to share.

[464] That was a thing and it does work.

[465] I'm working with scientists now to find ways of taking a lot of the prototyping of humanity's future that I do.

[466] I'm faking what the future will be on stage every night and trying to make it real.

[467] And a lot of magic history has made a lot of technology real.

[468] The things that you use today were magic effects to begin with.

[469] The first smart home that existed was a magic trick.

[470] When doors opened by themselves for the grocery store, that was a magic effect that Robert Houdan did.

[471] Automatic horse feeders was a magic effect.

[472] There would be no chips movie if there was not.

[473] a magician doing the thing.

[474] David did his homework.

[475] You're right.

[476] When I look at those early Edison things, it's a carousel moving with some light, and it gives the illusion that this horse is running in front of them, and that's like one step away from film.

[477] Yeah, and that is an illusion.

[478] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[479] We've all been there.

[480] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[481] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[482] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[483] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[484] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[485] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[486] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[487] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[488] What's up, guys?

[489] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good, and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[490] Every episode, I bring on a full.

[491] friend and have a real conversation.

[492] And I don't mean just friends.

[493] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[494] The list goes on.

[495] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[496] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[497] When Guillermo del Toro came to this museum, he got very emotional when he saw the Melias stuff I have.

[498] If you saw the movie Hugo, which he did not direct, Scorsese directed it, it's about George Melias.

[499] And movie was a magic trick in a show, a magic effect.

[500] You go into a magic show and you see a train come at you.

[501] And they always go, whoa, like this.

[502] In fact, Coppola used it in the Dracula movie, where the Dracula goes to a magic show and the train comes at you or horses will put them.

[503] That's all movies were, movies were, was a magic effect.

[504] And George May -Liaz did a lot of special effects, stop motion and all this stopping the camera and all kinds of layered optical things that he started.

[505] But his real contribution to me was he said, we're going to tell stories with this magic effect and do Cinderella.

[506] We're going to do a trip to the moon.

[507] We're going to do those things.

[508] So movies became movies from a magic effect, which was the cinema.

[509] So that's for real.

[510] That's a big contribution that magicians made to the cinema.

[511] Yeah, they have kind of a parallel role with science fiction writers.

[512] Science fiction writers are crazy on the surface.

[513] And then they become a strange angel.

[514] They start JPL.

[515] So it is.

[516] It's interesting for the creative visionaries to think of a concept previously unthought of that then later engineers figure out how to execute.

[517] It's like a pivotal role in it.

[518] 100%.

[519] But you go back to Da Vinci.

[520] DeVinci drew airplanes, the helicopters.

[521] They didn't work.

[522] They didn't work.

[523] Right, right.

[524] But you have to credit him for starting it.

[525] It took 400 years to make the airplane to get off the ground for a few seconds, like the rep was it.

[526] Four hundred years later.

[527] But if you didn't do that original drawing, where would do it?

[528] would be.

[529] Who knows?

[530] And I think I'm certainly not comparing myself to Da Vinci, but a lot of things that I can do on stage might plant a seed to be real.

[531] And it's happened over and over in my business, my art. And I think whether it's myself or like you said, a science fiction writer who creates all these impossible things, we do make them real.

[532] They eventually become real.

[533] A young person reads it and it becomes obsessed with making that a reality.

[534] It just gets really heady about like what is real, right?

[535] Like when you are doing an illusion and people are perceiving that it's real.

[536] Like it's not, you know it's not, but I don't know.

[537] It just gets very.

[538] It's real except for one part.

[539] It's the one illusion part.

[540] I'm very, very lucky that people bring me technology very early on.

[541] Before most people see it, I get to see it early.

[542] And I get to use it.

[543] I get to hide it and disguise that technology.

[544] the new technology in my show.

[545] And five years from now, I can't use that stuff anymore because it'll be in your house.

[546] But for five years or so, I get a window of time where I could use that to be really amazing.

[547] In the process, I've also invented with my team new technology that I like to keep for myself for a while because I can have people enjoy it and hopefully be inspired by it.

[548] And then eventually that new technology that we're creating is real.

[549] It'll be in people's homes.

[550] In music, you compose a song on a piano, right?

[551] They use that piano or guitar or keyboard to create that thing.

[552] In magic, I have to create the piano each time.

[553] I have to build the piano first.

[554] It's really hard.

[555] It takes a long, long time.

[556] On that, I have to imagine you would have been an incredible engineer.

[557] Because that's really what you're doing, right?

[558] At the end of the day, every single one of the illusions has a mechanical component.

[559] Sometimes mechanical, sometimes mathematics, sometimes physics, sometimes psychology, sometimes sound.

[560] Everything's important, and you take those things, and you have something that's amazing, and it's not enough.

[561] It's like Pixar.

[562] They can make amazing clouds.

[563] They'll spend years about a bunch of things making clouds or water, be amazing.

[564] But then you can't stop there.

[565] You have to make the music right.

[566] You have to make the story right.

[567] Yeah, really quick.

[568] It's overwhelming once it occurred to me. Do people often tell you you look like Andrew Garfield?

[569] Oh.

[570] Now that I've said it, you're not going to be able to not see it, Monica.

[571] I've just pulled an illusion.

[572] I've planted a see, but do people tell you you look like Andrew, Andrew Garfield?

[573] I've gotten it.

[574] He's going to play me in the movie, you know.

[575] Oh, he is?

[576] No, no, no, I'm joking.

[577] I'm joking.

[578] Let's start that rumor and then it'll all happen.

[579] He'll be grateful for that.

[580] Yeah, it's not bad.

[581] It's uncanny, yes, I'd take that any day.

[582] Oh, yeah.

[583] So I want to kind of try to just speed through in an economical manner your career, which is really, really unparalleled, And just to give some context of that, you would hate me saying this stuff, but I'm going to say it.

[584] Oh, I want you to say it.

[585] I want you to say it.

[586] He's trying to build a legacy here.

[587] David has won 21 Emmys.

[588] He has 11 Guinness Book of World Records.

[589] He's sold 33 million tickets, totally $4 billion.

[590] It's the most of any solo entertainer in the history of entertainment.

[591] Wow.

[592] Wow.

[593] So I think it's worth touchstoneing a couple of these moments that led to that.

[594] because that's the most rarefied error, if you're number one.

[595] Television played a role in that that maybe previously, obviously couldn't have played a role in Houdini.

[596] And I also would hope for you to tell me comparatively how big was Houdini in his day?

[597] Like, who would we compare him to?

[598] Is his legacy bigger than he was?

[599] Was he the biggest thing in the world?

[600] How big was Houdini?

[601] And then what role did this medium play in your success, television?

[602] Okay.

[603] Houdini, I think, was extremely vital in the sense that he knew about publicity really well.

[604] Everything he did was based on publicity.

[605] He would always show up for everything.

[606] He'd be there on top of it.

[607] Was he the greatest magician ever?

[608] No, but he was probably the greatest publicist ever.

[609] He was a magician that he did fine, but what he did find out, he started escaping from things.

[610] And escaping things was a very relatable thing.

[611] To escape, people can really go, wow, I wish I could get out of a jail.

[612] I wish I could get out of handcuffs.

[613] It's wish fulfillment.

[614] I don't actually wish I can trick you with a card.

[615] But God knows I'd love to get out of handcuffs someday.

[616] That's right.

[617] Yeah.

[618] And you may need to, you know.

[619] The thing is that he found that avenues will captivate attention.

[620] When he produced flowers or an elephant, meaningless.

[621] Nobody cares.

[622] Nobody wakes up in the morning and dreams of that.

[623] People do dream about escape of things.

[624] So he really did that, and it was very copied.

[625] and was a great publicist.

[626] He was a P .T. Barnum publicist, for sure.

[627] And, I mean, he died on Halloween.

[628] Give me a break.

[629] He's going to die.

[630] You're going to die on Halloween.

[631] That's great publicity, right?

[632] Pretty perfect.

[633] I think in my museum and also in the book, we talk about him a lot.

[634] And I think he discovered that thing.

[635] I think Thurston was a better magician.

[636] Keller was a better magician.

[637] I've done lots of escapes.

[638] All the stuff he didn't do, I did.

[639] I went over in Niagara Falls in a raft.

[640] He wanted to do that.

[641] I escaped from an imploding building.

[642] building.

[643] And it's at a time, remember, remember that's a time where everything was hidden.

[644] Except the straitjacket escape, he would escape in front of thousands of people on the street for free from a stray jacket upside down.

[645] That's an escape you can actually see.

[646] If you want to see my version of that, again, his is really great.

[647] But our version was, you can Google fires a passion.

[648] It was kind of making it very filmic and make it so they see every single detail.

[649] I was hanging from ropes that burn, for example.

[650] And one by one by one, one.

[651] the ropes would burn away.

[652] Did you cut your finger off?

[653] No, it's a different, different.

[654] Okay.

[655] I knew it involved ropes.

[656] These are giant ropes.

[657] Fires a passion.

[658] Check it out.

[659] It's pretty good.

[660] It's very cinematic.

[661] So Houdini lived in a time where the audience would be very patient.

[662] It wasn't an audience waiting to, what's the next piece of sugar going to come at us?

[663] And people would stare at a curtain with him escaping behind the curtain for an hour.

[664] Oh, wow.

[665] Really?

[666] That wouldn't work today, right?

[667] But we still remember the name Houdini, which is pretty amazing because of his ability to kind of capture the iconic imagination of people.

[668] And it's got to, you have to give him a lot of respect for that.

[669] Like would we compare him to the Beatles to, I mean, was he enormously in his time?

[670] I think in his time.

[671] You remember his time was chaplain time.

[672] Chaplain had been around, Sarah Bernhardt would be there.

[673] When he got a picture of Sarah Bernhardt, that was a big deal for him.

[674] But we still know him because of the mystery of it all, I think.

[675] I think that is the mystery of it, and the name is a good name, right?

[676] Even if he would have grown old, maybe, that diminishes how much we remember him in some bizarre way, had he not died tragically.

[677] Well, that plays a part of it.

[678] I'd rather go for the old age thing myself.

[679] Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too.

[680] I just want to quickly go through.

[681] So at 18, you have got the lead role in Chicago and the Magic Man, and then 19, you start headlining your own show down in Honolulu.

[682] Well, let's go back to that.

[683] The show I did where I sang and danced and acted.

[684] when Doug Henning had this giant show in New York and it was answered by these producers who produced Greece on Broadway did the show with me called The Magic Man in Chicago.

[685] I had about 12 songs at the opening of the eight -month run and by the end of the run I had a half of a song.

[686] They gave all my songs to the other people who could actually sing.

[687] That is not the direction I thought you were going with the story.

[688] That was wonderful.

[689] I can't sing well.

[690] I did okay, but they kept giving the professional singers and actors, other stuff.

[691] My magic was good, and the show ran, and I thought my career was going to be great.

[692] I thought, okay, I'm set.

[693] I'm a big star in Chicago.

[694] Gray, I come to New York, starved for a year.

[695] And I started doing industrial shows, corporate events, as you call it today.

[696] And they paid for my illusions, and they paid for to build all the props to tell the stories I wanted to tell at the time.

[697] kind of an MGM musical world at the time I would cut a girl in three pieces as a date with a magician.

[698] There was a series of movies at the time called That's Entertainment.

[699] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[700] That's Entertainment was this giant success and it was all the clips of the MGM musicals, totally inspiring to me. So I did a date with a magician.

[701] I did the Keystone Kopp number with an escape.

[702] I would float my assistants up in the air to American and Paris.

[703] I would do my salute to Gene Kelly.

[704] So it was all very kind of story -based magic that kind of had context because my idols weren't magicians.

[705] My idols were all the people did everything else but magic.

[706] That's what got me discovered, I guess, by a guy named Joe Cates, Phoebe Cates' father.

[707] Oh, wow.

[708] He gave me my big break.

[709] He was producing specials for Johnny Cash specials and Robert Klein specials and circus specials.

[710] He put me on TV on ABC.

[711] And Fred Silverman put me on the show, introducing all the fall season.

[712] And it was me and Hal Lyndon and Cindy Williams and the Kate Jackson, all the Charlie's Angels people, and I didn't know what to do with my hands.

[713] I really was on, and Donnie Marie would walk on there, and they knew exactly what to do with their hands and their bodies.

[714] They knew exactly how to control the camera, and at the time, they'd look at a camera lens.

[715] They would know when a camera was on close -up for them because the camera lens would move closer or farther.

[716] But at the time, they would know exactly how big their movement should be.

[717] You'd go, oh, my God, these people are so talented.

[718] And I knew nothing.

[719] I was 19 years old.

[720] Again, it's a very mechanical format, more than people would get.

[721] It was at the time.

[722] Now it's another thing, but I learned a lot.

[723] I learned a lot by failing.

[724] If you watch that special, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.

[725] And they didn't know what to do with me. And I learned to direct really quick.

[726] I learned to light really quick because I didn't want to look stupid for the next one.

[727] Well, and I'd imagine your illusions have to be filmed in a very specific manner, and you're aware of that.

[728] Yeah, well, we've developed lots of camera technology, and that's why the Emmy Awards come from that.

[729] We really had a crew that won a lot of awards for their cinematography and their camera work and all that stuff because we cared so much.

[730] And I put my money into it.

[731] I didn't make any money from this stuff just to get it right.

[732] So it would last with something that was decent.

[733] Looking stupid is a really great lesson.

[734] Oh, yeah.

[735] It's a big motivator.

[736] And you're talking about how people are motivated on stuff.

[737] I got it to fear is a real, motivator.

[738] It's amazing.

[739] The fear of looking dumb or getting it wrong, and I've gotten it wrong a lot, and I've learned a lot, and I continue to learn every single day.

[740] Yeah, I say the path of a director is basically you go into it, understanding it, and then the only way to truly learn is to fuck yourself over in the edit, to get into the edit and go, oh my God, I shot them against a wall.

[741] Oh, my God, I didn't do a close.

[742] Oh, my, that's when you really learn directing this.

[743] When you can't solve the problem, Right, right, right.

[744] And you know, Mel Brooks says, shoot the clock, shoot the clock.

[745] Roll camera on the clock so you can cut away.

[746] Why?

[747] Cut away to the clock.

[748] Do you get you out of trouble?

[749] It's like, oh, my God.

[750] And for me, I spent lots of time in the editing room also to make sure, even though the magic itself has to be in one shot without cutting away.

[751] And the shots have to move.

[752] We developed lots of stuff as far as making sure that the audience at home feels like they're in the theater.

[753] In the theater, you can move your head to the side.

[754] It's the old Polanski shot with Ruth Gordon, where she's halfway off the screen.

[755] And the cinematographer saying to Roman Polanski, well, she's not centered.

[756] She's behind the wall.

[757] And he says, don't worry about it.

[758] Just shoot it.

[759] And then at the screening, first screening, they play that scene in Rosemary's baby, and the whole audience cranes their head around kind of like that.

[760] And they say, oh, okay.

[761] And now I see what you're talking about.

[762] So it's like thinking like that and like learning that, how do you make the magic work at home?

[763] Yeah, it's much harder than people would probably imagine.

[764] Of course, I know it coming from comedies.

[765] So if you have a written bit of material and you're doing stand -up, That has a certain expectation.

[766] But when you see improv, when you go to see improvisers take a suggestion, everyone feels the stakes of it.

[767] They feel the impending failure of it.

[768] So that when it's even if they landed at a seven, it feels like a 12 because you've broken the tension of this imminent failure in front of you.

[769] And I have to imagine magic has the exact same appeal.

[770] But on television, you're removed from it.

[771] And so to recreate that feeling must be hard.

[772] You have to make up for that.

[773] You're totally right.

[774] Magic is a live medium, in essence, because people, at home, no, you can do anything.

[775] And today, really anything.

[776] So how do you make them really believable and get invested in the reality of it?

[777] Well, you kind of show mistakes.

[778] You show the mistakes.

[779] Yeah, and also just you kind of have live people there.

[780] It's a real interesting exercise.

[781] And we did a good job of it on TV.

[782] It communicated the idea.

[783] People really felt like they were there as best as you could.

[784] Certainly a live medium.

[785] There's nothing like it.

[786] Like your analogy with improv.

[787] Improv, certainly the stakes and a live theater, the skakes you know that somebody.

[788] we could drop dead on stage any minute.

[789] And on TV, well, guess what?

[790] We would probably leave it in if that happened.

[791] You know what I'm saying?

[792] Today we'd leave it in.

[793] And I'm doing impossible things.

[794] So every effort, every chance to humanize it is better.

[795] To not look like the eyebrow raised perfect picture to make it so it's human.

[796] And show your flaws and show that you're like them makes the magic even stronger.

[797] Yeah, because I guess as a viewer on television, you actually go, oh, my God, let's say you're in water and you're in a straight jacket.

[798] The wiser part of my brain goes, well, he doesn't die or it wouldn't be on television.

[799] They're not going to air this guy dying, but when it's live, this guy might die.

[800] It's just a totally different mindset.

[801] People do suspend their disbelief on TV.

[802] They really do.

[803] They do get invested, even though cerebroly, you do know that there is a positive conclusion usually.

[804] But in a movie, certainly, you know, you've seen people on TikTok, so you know that that actor made it out of the helicopter crash.

[805] But you're still invested in the movie, aren't you?

[806] You still go with it.

[807] You know, you suspect.

[808] Yeah, well, but I would argue that big element of why Game of Thrones was so successful is they killed this, our lead immediately.

[809] And then when they did that, they told us anything's possible in this show.

[810] It was so profound, and it carried out through all the seasons.

[811] You go, I don't know who they'll kill.

[812] They'll kill John Snow.

[813] Yeah, that's possible.

[814] I just want to talk about one of your specials, which was the Statue of Liberty.

[815] And not so much about the illusion itself.

[816] but I kind of dug what I learned the impetus was.

[817] The message you were actually trying to send, I think, is kind of cool, and that had blown over my head in the day.

[818] But we'll need to know what the illusion is to have that.

[819] He made the Statue of Liberty disappear.

[820] In a nutshell.

[821] Not to jump to the punchline, but...

[822] To go backwards, what happened was I was doing all the story magic and theater -based magic, trying to make that work.

[823] I was my contribution.

[824] and make it personal and make it a soul or reason for being and on one special a pretty good special I vanished an airplane so I did all the story stuff and I vanished an airplane and it was a good really good piece of magic but I had no reasons for being and the next day the vanishing airplane was viral before viral he went around the world people were talking about this thing and Johnny Carson never booked me on the Johnny Carson Joe he didn't like me for some reason I don't know why but he talked about that he was like oh my god how so it was like it really was an amazing thing, the impact of the big idea.

[825] And I didn't expect it.

[826] And I was kind of mad about it.

[827] I didn't like it.

[828] I said, you like that?

[829] I worked so hard in this other stuff.

[830] And you like this big thing that had no personal investment in it.

[831] There was no soul to it.

[832] Most magic is that.

[833] Most magic is that you vanish somebody, but to me, magic shouldn't be that.

[834] It should be much more than that.

[835] Anyway, that got ignored.

[836] I was taught a lesson that just having a piece of magic, if it's really strong and really big, would have an impact.

[837] And I said, I've got to fix this somehow.

[838] And the next special, I want to do a big thing that had meaning.

[839] Therefore, the Statue of Liberty.

[840] My mother told me about the Statue of Liberty when I was a kid.

[841] When she was a kid, she came on the boat, passed a Statue Liberty.

[842] Oh, there's a statue over there.

[843] Here's what it means, young lady.

[844] She's from Russia?

[845] From Israel.

[846] Oh.

[847] The father is from Russia.

[848] But the same, like, got to leave.

[849] Life's going to be bad here.

[850] There's going to be problems.

[851] let's come to this place called America where streets are actually paved with gold.

[852] They really believe streets were going to have gold on them.

[853] And of course, they had cigarettes instead and gun.

[854] And horse shit, probably.

[855] And some of that too.

[856] But anyway, she comes by in the boat and she's statually, oh my God, there it is.

[857] And the new life happens.

[858] And the new life includes something that didn't exist where she came from, which is this freedom stuff.

[859] So I went to Frank Capra.

[860] Frank Capra was one of my idols.

[861] also.

[862] Frank Capra.

[863] Mr. Smith goes to Washington.

[864] It's a wonderful life.

[865] All the movies we watch in Christmas and so forth are.

[866] Uniquely American kind of staples.

[867] He was that.

[868] Really, really that.

[869] And I went to Frank Capra and I said, your company is called Liberty Films back in the day.

[870] I'm going to vanish the Statue of Liberty.

[871] I say, will you help me?

[872] He said, yes, I will help you on one condition that you fail when you try.

[873] You will try and fail.

[874] Oh, wow.

[875] And the point is, yeah.

[876] And he says, the point is, liberty can't disappear.

[877] It's too strong.

[878] It cannot disappear.

[879] And I said, well, I don't think CBS will want me to do a, you know, spend an hour or stuff.

[880] They can hire tax to pull that trick off.

[881] Because what I wanted was to talk about my experience in a compelling way, my experience, my mom's experience, showing that liberty is a fragile thing, that if we can make it disappear, how we take it for granted.

[882] Imagine if we didn't have it.

[883] Imagine if the Statue of Liberty wasn't there.

[884] But it was more than that.

[885] It was like, imagine if our freedom didn't exist and how our future of our kids would change if we lived like some countries right now live.

[886] And so that was the point.

[887] The illusion was okay.

[888] I think the airplane was better, honestly.

[889] But people really remembered that Statue Liberty thing.

[890] They remembered it as an idea, probably because of that underlying subtext of it.

[891] And it was really flattering that shows like the Americans, fantastic show.

[892] great.

[893] It's incredible.

[894] Incredible.

[895] So they did a whole episode with the Statue of Liberty.

[896] The idea was that takes place.

[897] In fact, these two Russian spies in America during that time, during the 80s, during that time.

[898] And it's the family watching this, Russian spies and their kids watching me vanishing the statue and talking about freedom.

[899] So they use that as a kind of iconic moment of that time.

[900] Yeah.

[901] That's flattering.

[902] Very flattering.

[903] Yeah.

[904] So it's cool.

[905] I have a technical question.

[906] So I know your techniques are well guarded, as they should be.

[907] I know that you have some nickel inscribed disc that's going to the moon or is already on the moon with the revelations of how you did all this stuff.

[908] So my question is, knowing just to establish how important it is to you, how on earth do you have a crew of presumably 150 people to make the special that are getting privileged access, three can keep a secret if two are dead, how on earth?

[909] earth does that not get out of the bag?

[910] They all sign NDAs.

[911] You hope you have a relationship with them to be part of this team that's creating this because I'm not a one -man band.

[912] Yeah.

[913] You want to give them ownership so they want to protect it as well, I'd imagine.

[914] That's a really good way of doing this.

[915] They feel part of that team.

[916] So 20 years later, 30 years later, they go, you know, I was part of that and we haven't talked.

[917] They take pride and not talking about it.

[918] But there's a couple assholes out of course.

[919] Guys down on their luck.

[920] Yeah.

[921] So what do you do?

[922] I do is, you know, I'll reveal a secret here today.

[923] On the internet, we have exposure videos that people are exposing my magic.

[924] And you can go look and how does David Koppel do this?

[925] What you'll find, the top rated ones are the ones that I created.

[926] So is this like I heard recently that, I think it was Rayban discovered that there was some billion dollar market of knockoff Raybans and they had been fighting for years to try to conquer that.

[927] And eventually they just surrendered to it and said, you know what, it's going to happen.

[928] We should make the billion dollars.

[929] And they're making the knockoffs.

[930] I mean, I could have some of the details of that wrong, but in general, that's...

[931] I didn't know that.

[932] And that's an interesting decision in the retail business.

[933] That's an interesting decision.

[934] But you have to really weigh, how do you balance out how it hurts your brand?

[935] You know what I'm saying?

[936] Yes, of course.

[937] But for me, I guess it is similar in a way.

[938] Before they do it, I mean, Houdini, go back to Houdini for a second.

[939] When people started copying him.

[940] So many people copied him doing handcuffs things.

[941] He came up with books of how to escape from handcuffs to try to destroy it.

[942] And here's how I do it to kind of quash it down a bit.

[943] So I would imagine for me it would be like, okay, yeah, if you guys are going to unveil this, I would like to be kind of at least in control of how it's unveiled.

[944] Like I'm going to be violated.

[945] So let me at least come up with the best version of this thing I don't want to do.

[946] My thing is a bit different because what you see on the internet is my explanations that aren't real.

[947] Oh.

[948] Oh, wow.

[949] Okay, okay.

[950] So disinformation?

[951] 100%.

[952] And really well done.

[953] Okay.

[954] Okay.

[955] So another plausible way.

[956] And I take them down.

[957] David Copperfield takes down the fake stuff, and then it comes back again.

[958] They redo it.

[959] And I was the culprit to begin with.

[960] So there you go.

[961] Oh, okay.

[962] Okay.

[963] What's your favorite magic movie?

[964] My fingers are crossed that we have the same one.

[965] because I think there's one of my top five movies of all time is a magic movie.

[966] Huh.

[967] This has been some really good, you know, Christopher Nolan did research here for The Prestige.

[968] The Prestige.

[969] Yeah, it was really good.

[970] The Illusionist, I think, is really well done with Edward Norton.

[971] There's been a lot of movies that I helped with.

[972] Now You See Me Movies, I was the co -producer of the second one, and the first one was inspired by one of my illusions.

[973] The author came to my show and saw me transporting myself.

[974] and someone to a deserted island or, you know, and said, okay, we can make a movie out of that idea.

[975] Magic is that, as opposed to sleight of hand, we can make a movie out of that.

[976] So he wrote Ed Reichort is his name, and he saw my show.

[977] And I used to transport people, again, trying to push the envelope.

[978] I used to reunite people by transporting them to other countries during my show.

[979] Oh, wow.

[980] And make it credible, believe it or not.

[981] That was the start of the Now You See Me Movies.

[982] Monica's about to explode.

[983] I don't know if you're checking in with her, like, her body.

[984] her physical cues here, but she is literally on the verge of exploit.

[985] You transport like your assistant.

[986] No, audience.

[987] No. You should go see.

[988] You can look on YouTube.

[989] You can see Portal, an illusion called Portal.

[990] It's me and a young man go to a boy.

[991] Yeah, with proof and signatures and Polaroids and all that stuff.

[992] It was amazing live.

[993] But on TV, it's not so bad, actually.

[994] Yeah, Portal.

[995] Oh, wow.

[996] This is crazy.

[997] So what you're telling us is you do have the technology to teleport.

[998] And you should go ahead and release that because I want to teleport.

[999] It would collapse every known industry we have.

[1000] It's fine.

[1001] Real estate.

[1002] Fuel, transportation.

[1003] We would get that, and then the entire world economy would be gone.

[1004] Why the fuck you need to live in Manhattan?

[1005] If you can work in Manhattan, eating Manhattan, walk around Manhattan, and then sleep in your house in the country.

[1006] Manhattan real estate worth nothing tomorrow.

[1007] Boom.

[1008] I had a script idea about a guy who discovered teleporting and all these titans of industries conspired to kill him.

[1009] because it would ruin everything.

[1010] Well, it's fake.

[1011] Let me live.

[1012] Let me live.

[1013] How?

[1014] Oh, wow.

[1015] But I'm not sure that's correct.

[1016] I'm working on stuff with very smart people that is real stuff that is based on making the future better.

[1017] We'll see what happens.

[1018] But I think the job of that, the real win of that illusion is if some kid in the audience to watch me do that, and that motivates them to really take our atoms and be able to reform them.

[1019] When you're watching the prestige...

[1020] Yeah, what is your favorite magic movie that you like to say?

[1021] Yeah, the prestige.

[1022] I think that is a masterpiece on so many levels.

[1023] Cinematically, it's so gorgeous when he goes to visit Tesla and he puts that light bulb in the ground.

[1024] I mean, there's so much beauty in that.

[1025] And then the darker side, to me, the fascination I have is kind of the macabre aspect of magic.

[1026] Of course, there's the dark arts, and there's people trying to harness the powers of sacred, to perform magic.

[1027] Like, I'm more interested in maybe the occult version of magic.

[1028] The bail character to me represents, like, what one could possibly do in pursuit of this thing.

[1029] And I don't know, I just loved it.

[1030] But I do wonder, so here's my bad example.

[1031] I'm watching Outbreak.

[1032] Well, I majored in primatology.

[1033] So right away, I see this monkey leaving Africa, but it's got a prehensile tail.

[1034] And I go, well, that can't be there.

[1035] That's a capuchin.

[1036] It's supposed to be in South America.

[1037] And I can't even enjoy now the scene.

[1038] So when you're watching the prestige, Are you able to enjoy it?

[1039] Are you so conscious of the sausage?

[1040] Like, what's happening?

[1041] Well, I think being taken out of any piece of theater is definitely a thing.

[1042] All of us were content creators.

[1043] And for that content to really communicate and to really resonate with people, few things to take people out, right?

[1044] Joel Gray, I did the Mike Douglas show.

[1045] This is years and years ago.

[1046] John Lennon did it one week, and I did it the next week, believe it or not.

[1047] I don't know why.

[1048] I didn't know what I was doing and I was a kid.

[1049] But Joel Gray, just after Cabaret was on the show, He was a gigantic star, won the Academy Award for Cabaret, and he's rehearsing.

[1050] And he said, he's watching the monitors, he's rehearsing.

[1051] And he said, don't take that back shot of my head because I'm losing some hair back there.

[1052] And it's going to be about that.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] It's going to be about that.

[1055] Yeah, I agree.

[1056] And the point is, you have to get as much right as physically possible can do, whether it's on stage by rehearsing and doing it or the editing room.

[1057] For me, that movie was just beautiful.

[1058] Both those movies came out at the same time.

[1059] And both of them respected magic.

[1060] They didn't make it hokey or cheesy.

[1061] They both respected magic.

[1062] So I love that.

[1063] Christopher Nolan came here to do research to this museum.

[1064] And a lot of things that you see in that movie are based in pictures that he shot with his camera, his research team did.

[1065] And of course, we welcome this genius of a guy.

[1066] He's amazing to the museum.

[1067] And I think he got it really right as far as the storytelling and all that stuff.

[1068] Of course, you take a sideways path to make the story go forward.

[1069] You're not going to be exactly accurate for things.

[1070] If you're accurate, you're going to be expensive what the audience experience is.

[1071] I think he went for the supernatural thing.

[1072] Yeah, as he does, yeah.

[1073] As he does.

[1074] And that as a person who's thinking logic, logic, logic, to find mechanical and psychological things, that is a much harder path to get right, as opposed to saying it's a supernatural thing, even though I think the movie is great.

[1075] Although supernatural grounded in a theoretical science, that, as you just said, perhaps isn't on the horizon.

[1076] If we, I mean, ultimately, right, that's what Tesla's machine was doing, is it was teleporting.

[1077] That was his ultimate illusion, right?

[1078] Spoiler alert.

[1079] We're going to find out.

[1080] You know, I'm going to find out.

[1081] But I think that we are in a world of taking possibilities that a magician could do or a filmmaker can do.

[1082] Anybody is creating illusions, illusion in the cinema, or illusion on stage with a magic show, and hopefully it becomes real in the distant future.

[1083] in the not too distant future.

[1084] A magician, George Malias, we talked about him before, did a trip to the moon.

[1085] We saw a rocket land on the moon.

[1086] Less than 70 years later, we actually landed on the moon.

[1087] So the time between dreaming and reality is getting shorter and shorter.

[1088] I mean, Elon Musk is taking rockets and landing them straight down on a pad.

[1089] Holy shit.

[1090] That's really, really amazing.

[1091] Going into a Tesla and having just, sensing what's around you and all that stuff, it's not quite there yet.

[1092] We can't really be hands -free yet, totally.

[1093] It's getting close, really close.

[1094] And all the scary robot stuff, I've got a robot in my show that's pretty amazing.

[1095] Oh, really?

[1096] But all the robots were watching, the Boston Dynamics and all that stuff that's kind of a little bit, kind of scary.

[1097] Oh, God, yeah, there's just like a torso with legs.

[1098] But if it's used correctly and monitored, so it's not used incorrectly, it's going to change our world.

[1099] We're watching things that are amazing right now.

[1100] I'm really inspired.

[1101] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1102] Is there anyone you watch as a magician and you're amazed?

[1103] You have moments of it.

[1104] There's moments.

[1105] And then your brain starts going and then, you know, if you can get that one moment, even for 10 seconds, it was a coin trick that a guy did where a coin appeared in my hand.

[1106] And for that one moment, it was like, oh, my God.

[1107] And then, of course, my brain did the horrible thing of destroying that thing.

[1108] But that moment of wonder is a really important moment.

[1109] And that's what I do is my job is to do that with people to give them that kind of that reason to live for that one moment to realize there.

[1110] Einstein talks about it, how if you can't be amazed at something, you might as well be dead.

[1111] It's like that.

[1112] I'm saying all these quotes very badly.

[1113] But it's the importance, the importance of dreaming and the importance of future reality that's really something that is beyond what we know right now is very, very important.

[1114] Okay, my last question has the potential to be a depressing one, but I'm going to ask it nevertheless.

[1115] You've written this book, The History of Magic.

[1116] I think you have great, great passion and true love for the history of it, the people that have progressed it.

[1117] And I think you've brought, obviously, to minimally 33 million ticket buyers, the thing you just described, which is like, is there more to this world than I know?

[1118] and that's so thrilling.

[1119] It's basically you're giving them optimism.

[1120] There might be more to this world than I know.

[1121] As I've had my own experience in life, and I'm looking at your museum, I am curious if your sense of nostalgia in recreating all these things is at all because the funnest part of this ride was the boy dreaming of this ride.

[1122] No, I think that there is obviously more to life than we know.

[1123] there is.

[1124] We're discovering this every day.

[1125] I salute all these men and women, amazing women magicians, Adelaide, Herman, people that really inspired other women to do things that they're not supposed to do in quotes.

[1126] And there's amazing women magicians today, which are really inspiring to me. I really focus my time on taking all this knowledge, these giants on whose shoulders I stand upon and figure, what do we do to inspire people to really show that, future in a unique way so they can really move us forward.

[1127] And magic has that power to prototype humanity's future to kind of do it for real, except for one little part, which is the illusion part that I have to do.

[1128] And then that hopefully will inspire people to go forward.

[1129] This museum will be endowed by me at the end of the day.

[1130] You know, I'm working hard to save all my money to keep this alive and to have it as a living, breathing thing after my time is gone.

[1131] But hopefully the real message.

[1132] It's not to make people go, wow, it's to make people go, wow, what if, what if this could be real?

[1133] What if we can make that happen?

[1134] As Da Vinci did, as Melias did, as all these people who loved magic did.

[1135] And so in my humble way, I'm trying to find a way to take this ability to dream and to think about possibilities as Disney did.

[1136] A lot of things that Disney kind of brought forth to look towards the future and that have now become real.

[1137] And I think magic can do that.

[1138] And the world I live in, this art that I live in can accomplish that.

[1139] And that's what I'm working on it.

[1140] Okay, I guess my positive spin on it would be this.

[1141] I've been working now consistently for 20 years.

[1142] The apex of the experience was while I was at the Groundlings Theater in L .A., and there really wasn't going to be an outcome to it.

[1143] I wasn't getting paid, but people weren't recognizing me. That pursuit at that time, the pursuit that was the thing that was going to take me to the place, the reason it's worth pointing out, and you might not agree on it, and this would be fine.

[1144] But I guess my message would be, if you're listening and you're young and you have a beautiful goal, please know that this ride is the sweet spot and it's not about the goal.

[1145] Is that true for you?

[1146] Yes.

[1147] I mean, we do say that, enjoy the ride, enjoy the journey.

[1148] For me, it was like, it wasn't, the journey wasn't that much fun.

[1149] It's like the fun was the result of each step.

[1150] Okay.

[1151] In improv and in theater, the interaction with talented people is a joy there.

[1152] You're getting so much feeling from interacting people who are as good as you and better than you, right?

[1153] You're learning and you're growing.

[1154] In my world, it's not like that.

[1155] My world, I'm having to solve problems.

[1156] I'm coming up against walls each time.

[1157] So the joy moment is when I finally get it right and the audience goes, yeah, that's pretty good.

[1158] That's my joy moment.

[1159] So it's a process of torture and then finally getting it right.

[1160] And then you think, all right, next.

[1161] time I do this, it's going to be easy because it was so hard the last time.

[1162] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1163] And then that's wrong because the next time it's just as hard and you keep doing it.

[1164] But there is the joy of the next thing.

[1165] So I think the analogy, the differences in theater, in improv, you're getting the joy of the interaction of the duet.

[1166] I think my analogy with you is making a movie.

[1167] Well, I was just going to say that.

[1168] But I am of the opinion that you will never control the outcome of.

[1169] the movie so it should be about the experience of making the movie because i've had movies that came out and tripled what they cost and i've had come out and just be stagnant and so what i have to do while making is like oh no i love making movies i'm not doing this for the result on friday and it doesn't sound like though when you're making these elaborate illusions that it's such it's a joyful experience maybe because it's more solitary or something not solitary i'm working with people and we hit our head against the wall and you go home really upset but then finally it works finally you get it to work that joy has got to cover up all the other stuff yeah in movies though when you make a movie the sun's going down you're gonna lose your light yeah my god and then did you get this shot oh my god you go to bed and i don't know how you get a joy certain directors i think jj abrams told me that i'm sorry dropping names it's a joy for him to shoot the stuff somehow he's able to handle it when i'm doing a TV special.

[1170] I was in China, in the middle of the streets in China, and we were shooting a scene with an old man who crashes his bicycle.

[1171] Bicycles wrecked, and I've got to magically restore the bicycle.

[1172] So it's me and this old man, this little young boy in the scene.

[1173] And behind the barriers is 10 ,000 people watching us because there's movie lights.

[1174] They've never seen this.

[1175] This is many years ago.

[1176] And they're showing up, I mean, climbing on top of each out and the trees watching a shoot the solitary scene.

[1177] And it's a night.

[1178] scene.

[1179] And I'm looking at the clock, and there's not enough time to shoot it.

[1180] There's not enough time.

[1181] And I was co -director of the show, and this older director said, what are you worried about?

[1182] Why are you like so nervous?

[1183] And he says, well, but the sun's going to come up.

[1184] We haven't got the shot.

[1185] We're losing our light.

[1186] The camera's moving the thing.

[1187] Where the lights are going to work, it's going to ruin the illusion.

[1188] He says, you're in China.

[1189] You wrote this.

[1190] This is your dream.

[1191] You've got a staff of 100 people who are paying you to do this.

[1192] You should be enjoying this.

[1193] He was right, but I couldn't understand it.

[1194] I didn't understand it.

[1195] You obviously can understand it.

[1196] I haven't figured it out.

[1197] Well, let me just say, I think my particular kink is I actually like solving problems.

[1198] That's what I love.

[1199] I love the challenge of fuck, we're losing the light here.

[1200] Oh, the sun was supposed to be on this side of the street, so now we got to shoot on this side.

[1201] We don't have a permit for that.

[1202] Like, that's actually what I love.

[1203] Can I take this seemingly impossible situation and execute?

[1204] And then when I do the burst of self -esteem that I have played my hand the best I can is the joy that I get.

[1205] Now I would say as a writer it's more that.

[1206] I sit in a fucking hotel room.

[1207] I'm lonely.

[1208] I'm miserable.

[1209] It's impossible to crack the third act.

[1210] And then it's finally done and that's it.

[1211] When it's done, I'm happy, but not during the writing.

[1212] But you're saying on the street when you're solving the problem, look, I should know that I'm going to solve it because I eventually do solve it.

[1213] I should know that, right?

[1214] But in the process, not being able to solve it, I'm not capable of thinking back saying it will get solved because my history is of solving.

[1215] I think maybe this is the one time where I'm not going to solve it.

[1216] And I've got this 100 people, 200 people there waiting to shoot this thing and I can't solve this thing.

[1217] So you'll have to teach me. I like that.

[1218] That means you're not arrogant.

[1219] Well, but you already said too, you find fear to be a great motivator.

[1220] So if you've identified it, then I would not argue you should eradicate that from your process.

[1221] But I have the benefit of having journaled for the last 17 years.

[1222] So when I'm about to start something, three days out, I'm like, they hired the wrong person.

[1223] I'm incompetent.

[1224] How the fuck do I get myself in this position?

[1225] But then I read day one of filming of everything, whether I'm acting, whether I'm directing.

[1226] The day was perfect.

[1227] Like, I can just go back and look, oh, I have a pattern.

[1228] I will learn from you.

[1229] No, I think it's really important for people coming up in any field to be like, the very best is still scared and not all that confident.

[1230] Like, that's important because people feel like, oh, if I'm here, I should.

[1231] feel like this and you don't you still have insecurity i think that's great well it's good to know that and a positive note it does finally work yeah i mean i'm proof it does work it does but it's not easy and i'm really not alone in this a lot of great directors who are storied famous people that go to their room after shooting putting in terms that you live in and they go to the room crying every night and they've got a coppola yeah me i'm sure you've watched hearts of darkness like to know that he was coming home after these scenes in Apocalypse Now and saying, I don't know what movie I'm making is encouraging, weirdly.

[1232] Francis did my Broadway show.

[1233] Francis and I did a Broadway show together.

[1234] And Coppola, Spielberg, you just talk to these guys and they go, it's like all the same.

[1235] It's the same thing.

[1236] But at the end of the day, it's worth it.

[1237] It is worth it.

[1238] And you have to find the strength somewhere.

[1239] And for me, again, the difference is I'm starting with a blank, real, truly a blank page, unless I copy where everybody else is done, that's no fun.

[1240] Well, David, this has been incredibly interesting.

[1241] Monica's going to have to take a couple cool -down laps to get her heart rate back under 140.

[1242] I want to come see your show.

[1243] I can't wait.

[1244] It's fine.

[1245] I'm doing magic in a really different way.

[1246] It's not card tricks and girls coming out of boxes.

[1247] It's dinosaurs and spaceships and family and aliens.

[1248] And it's really trying to change the language of magic.

[1249] So it's not what you expect at all.

[1250] Wait, I have a question about bringing the person to Hawaii.

[1251] So does that person think he went to Hawaii?

[1252] Like, if that's a real -life person walking around now, does he say to his wife, like, yeah?

[1253] He can't answer that.

[1254] I will answer one part.

[1255] People that you bring up from the audience usually are totally amazed by something.

[1256] Usually are totally amazed.

[1257] Certain times I've broken the rule, and they've been partially amazed to get an effect for the audience.

[1258] So they kind of learn something on stage.

[1259] but still would go home with amazement.

[1260] They'll know part of it, but they'll still be able to tell their friends, I have no idea how he did that.

[1261] So I do take a lot of pride in making sure that when they've become part of the show in a way, that they still have amazement and they still have a value of the experience.

[1262] So cool.

[1263] This was really interesting.

[1264] So for anyone that is interested, I can't imagine someone more qualified to write the history of magic.

[1265] David Copperfield's History of Magic is a book you should buy, read, and tell your friends about.

[1266] So grateful to have you on.

[1267] It was great.

[1268] We are definitely going to come see you in Vegas.

[1269] I'm going to say that this is something we will do.

[1270] And I would love to snoop around this museum.

[1271] And you will.

[1272] I'll get a tour.

[1273] And I love both your work, just so you know, I did do my research.

[1274] And the book is an amazingly valuable Christmas gift, I must tell you.

[1275] It's a beautiful book.

[1276] And it's really, really a great thing on your coffee table that you can last for generations.

[1277] They're really great for that.

[1278] And do you think what would be the youngest age who could maybe comprehend it?

[1279] Is that a tough question?

[1280] The whole thing is just a beautiful book showing beautiful pictures, beautiful stories of people that did famous and infamous things from Houdini to Keller to Thurston, to Alexander, to David Kotkin from a touch in New Jersey.

[1281] That's me. Davino, the boy magician.

[1282] And it's a beautiful coffee table book.

[1283] It's fun to read in little sections.

[1284] It's not like a big off -putting thing.

[1285] It's not homework.

[1286] It's fun.

[1287] And the stories are really accessible.

[1288] And it's just a great thing to have.

[1289] Awesome.

[1290] David Copperfield's History of Magic.

[1291] David, thanks so much for being on the show.

[1292] And you'll see us in the audience.

[1293] Let me know.

[1294] Okay.

[1295] Thank you.

[1296] I will do.

[1297] All right.

[1298] Thanks so much.

[1299] Thank you.

[1300] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate, Monica Padman.

[1301] This is our first on unedited fact check.

[1302] Oh, my gosh.

[1303] Down to the wire.

[1304] No safety net.

[1305] So scary.

[1306] Well.

[1307] What if people found out that we were only clever, like one minute out of every 40?

[1308] It might happen.

[1309] Okay.

[1310] It's okay.

[1311] If that happens, I will edit it still.

[1312] Let's start by saying I've really missed doing fact checks because we haven't done one for a minute.

[1313] I know.

[1314] We've been out of town.

[1315] On the vacation of our life.

[1316] Well, my, I'm going to speak for me. Vacation of my life.

[1317] You had so much fun.

[1318] There were so many variables.

[1319] There were so many events.

[1320] Generally, when we vacation, which is lovely.

[1321] We go to a house and we sit there, which is great.

[1322] We play cards.

[1323] We go swimming.

[1324] This one was action -packed.

[1325] It was.

[1326] Soup to nuts, a barn burner of activity.

[1327] We were in Austin for the F -1 race.

[1328] Oh, man. Very limited edition, very exclusive.

[1329] And there were events.

[1330] Boom, boom.

[1331] Got to be here at this time.

[1332] Got to be there at that time.

[1333] And just the notion that we bookended the trip was Salt Lake.

[1334] Salt Lake out in Driftwood.

[1335] Yeah.

[1336] We got off the airplane, we went to the rental houses, straight to Salt Lake, first meal in Austin.

[1337] Your favorite restaurant there.

[1338] And it's not, look, I'm not picking any barbecue fights.

[1339] I'm not saying it's the best barbecue in Texas, but I'm saying when you add up the atmosphere, the vibe, the smoke pit right in front of you, all that stuff together, it's my favorite restaurant.

[1340] It's really fun.

[1341] We had so much fun there.

[1342] And it's a great place to be with 23 people, nine of them kids, because chaos is welcomed.

[1343] That's true.

[1344] They handled us really well.

[1345] In fact, the whole city handled us really well, except.

[1346] Well, okay.

[1347] Let's, do you want to put a pin in our grievance?

[1348] Okay.

[1349] Okay.

[1350] We'll keep a positive at the beginning here.

[1351] Okay.

[1352] Okay.

[1353] So first day, so first day we land, you know, we go to Salt Lake.

[1354] Fantastic.

[1355] Next day, let's go to Barton Springs.

[1356] Favorite place to swim, right in town.

[1357] If you've not been, it's incredible.

[1358] Big grassy slopes into like, I don't know, half mile long pool.

[1359] It's not even a pool.

[1360] It's the sides of cement, but the bottom's a river.

[1361] it's a creek yeah go there it's clothes for cleaning and we've got a big oops and we got 23 people showing up so think on your feet go and swim on the other side uh where the dogs are welcome the riffraff the misfits just called it acid springs and i think that was that's a great yeah a lot of people were um having experiences down there which is great the whole thing was great because my oldest daughter, when we walked to the car, she was like, I kind of feel like I was in fight or flight for that last two hours.

[1362] And I said, well, good.

[1363] That's an appropriate response to that many people that are doing that many weird things that you've never seen before.

[1364] It's like, that's not a wrong response.

[1365] It's like, who's legitimate crazy and who's just like eclectic and colorful?

[1366] We were joking that, because Charlie was there too, and we were saying he was in fight or fight.

[1367] Fight or fight mode.

[1368] And then there was so much pressure on Eric Because listen, some guys were swimming in their jeans This one dude, God bless him I hope he finds his way back to recovery But he came up to us and he was saying He is a friend of Bill Meaning he's also sober And then, but I could see immediately This guy is fucking pinned Out of his mind, yes.

[1369] Out of his mind, hi And so I'm nice and kind And blah, blah, blah.

[1370] And then he pulls air into a side He knows him and he says You know, how do you feel about weed and pills in AA and he's got a tremendous amount of weed and pills.

[1371] Again, I'm the last person to be judgmental of this.

[1372] I just don't really want to interact with someone who's pretending they're sober when they're fucking to the gills.

[1373] And really won't stop talking to us.

[1374] Won't stop.

[1375] This is kind of a funny story, actually.

[1376] So I was, I would say very, very generous and nice to him about five interactions.

[1377] But I could tell our whole day was going to be talking to this guy and it was so scatterbrain.

[1378] He was, you know, he's got a five -pitcher deal at Amazon.

[1379] He inherited a a cotrillion dollar car collection.

[1380] He, you know, just one thing after another.

[1381] And finally I said to him really nice.

[1382] I'm like, brother, it was great meeting you, but I flew here to hang out with my family and my friends.

[1383] So have a good one.

[1384] You know, I was very, I was very nice.

[1385] Then he came back.

[1386] Yeah, so sorry.

[1387] You know, you know, after that.

[1388] Then I thought, finally I said, brother, I'm not hanging out with you.

[1389] I'm hanging out with my friends.

[1390] And then then it flipped.

[1391] So then he went over to Aaron and he said, this guy's a fucking asshole.

[1392] He thinks he's too famous.

[1393] Well, I've been in front of the camera and behind.

[1394] the camera.

[1395] And I got a podcast.

[1396] That's not the punchline.

[1397] He then spent the rest of the two hours we were there going up to groups of people pointing over at us, explaining to them, Dak Shepard was around, and that he's a fucking asshole.

[1398] He swam across the creek, went to the other bank of the river.

[1399] And we just watched him.

[1400] He was just going through every group of people.

[1401] We'd see him point over at us for a minute, and we knew what was coming.

[1402] So I think he was trying to like rally maybe a, you know, some kind of a rabble against me. A coup?

[1403] Yeah, sure, sure.

[1404] Just, yeah, put together a troop and take us on.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] And unfortunately, he was like one of the least, God, what's the word?

[1407] Because I can't cut anything out.

[1408] That's right.

[1409] You don't want to offend anyone here.

[1410] You know, hair raising characters.

[1411] Sure, sure, sure.

[1412] He was, yeah.

[1413] What would you give him out of ten for fight or flight?

[1414] I would give him, I would give him a three.

[1415] Because I wasn't, I wasn't actually scared of him.

[1416] Right.

[1417] There were, there were some people there that I was, I was nervous.

[1418] What's going to happen right now?

[1419] One guy's swinging a golf club randomly.

[1420] Is that one of your guys?

[1421] Yes.

[1422] And he was particularly strange because he seemed kind of.

[1423] Athletic?

[1424] No. Well, well, I don't want to take away his athleticism.

[1425] I don't want, yeah, yeah, maybe he was an ex -golfer.

[1426] But he seemed at face value normal, not on drugs.

[1427] Right.

[1428] But then he clearly was on drugs by the way he was swinging that golf club.

[1429] And I was like, oh, okay, this is making me nervous because where is that aggression going to go?

[1430] Well, it was going to that golf ball, luckily.

[1431] Yeah, but what if he decided we were the golf ball?

[1432] Well, that's true.

[1433] That's true.

[1434] I will say, though, all in all, it had a similar vibe of many of the.

[1435] street corners I would be on in Detroit when I lived there.

[1436] Yeah, so you have some experience.

[1437] But I will say, it was way more peaceful.

[1438] So it was like, yeah, people were blown out, man. Some people were having some like 60s level acid trips where they were seeing huge insects and stuff.

[1439] One guy was just like kind of touching his nose repeatedly.

[1440] I think to make sure it was like still there.

[1441] Of course.

[1442] Yeah, yeah.

[1443] Well, you can get nervous that it went away.

[1444] Anyways, the long story short, it was actually a great time.

[1445] All those little speed bumps.

[1446] taken into consideration, like the girls were going down the little waterfall that was coming off the dam, and they were getting real adventurous, and it was really fun.

[1447] We left, we go to Guero's, that's a party.

[1448] Yeah, best cheese dip.

[1449] I love a cheese dip.

[1450] As soon as we landed, well, I'm going to, I'm going to call it a cheese dip.

[1451] Okay.

[1452] Because I don't know that it's fair to the people of Mexico to call it queso, because it's Tex -Mex, obviously.

[1453] I don't even know if they do queso in Mexico.

[1454] No, they do, but it's like a hard, it's like almost this like hardish cheese.

[1455] Like the cheese on top gets hard.

[1456] Like a French onion soup.

[1457] It's delicious.

[1458] Yeah, yeah.

[1459] Oh, wow.

[1460] But Tex -Mex, which is what I also grew up on.

[1461] Yeah.

[1462] I love the cheese dip.

[1463] Yeah, it's fantastic.

[1464] So good time there.

[1465] Go home, blah, blah, blah.

[1466] Next day.

[1467] Now we're going to go to Barton Springs proper.

[1468] And here's where's where.

[1469] the grievances start.

[1470] So if you don't like to hear people complain, you might want to skip ahead 30 seconds at a time.

[1471] No, you need to hear this.

[1472] Okay.

[1473] I want to preface this by saying it's literally my favorite place to swim on planet Earth.

[1474] And I'm a big swimmer.

[1475] And when I go places, I always search out local swim holes.

[1476] I mean, this is my spot.

[1477] It's my Macca.

[1478] I look forward to it so much.

[1479] And I've been there 40, 50 times and had the best time always.

[1480] Okay.

[1481] We go.

[1482] Yeah.

[1483] Again, 23 people.

[1484] 23 people.

[1485] Let's own our, you know.

[1486] Well, no, it's a huge, huge place.

[1487] Like, this is the place to go with 23 people.

[1488] Yes, absolutely.

[1489] It's a huge grassy knoll.

[1490] But, you know, it's kind of hard to get in.

[1491] Like, you have to pay, but those machines weren't working all that well.

[1492] So that was kind of hard when we all figured that out finally.

[1493] And they told us to put masks on as we walked in, which was really interesting because everyone else walking in didn't have a mask and everyone walking out didn't have a mess and not one human being there had a mask but it was very important that all 23 of us find a mask and they said you can take it off when you cross into the grass which was six feet away so we're like okay that was a little on barton springs from my memory like everyone's got to dig out and it took a minute to get nine kids masks and shit yeah okay so then we go we go we get that off we're shaking that off it's great putting out our towels, getting out, our coolers, and you guys, some of the guys go down.

[1494] They start getting wet.

[1495] Yeah, get wet.

[1496] Get it wet.

[1497] Get it wet.

[1498] And we're there for, I would say, six minutes.

[1499] Oh, it happened that because I read.

[1500] Immediately.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] News reached me probably 45 minutes later because I had swam to the far end.

[1503] Yeah.

[1504] Okay.

[1505] So six minutes in.

[1506] Six minutes in, what I now know was the head guard.

[1507] Wait, how do you now know that?

[1508] Oh, because she told, okay, you don't know some of this thing.

[1509] Oh, okay.

[1510] Okay, so this woman comes up.

[1511] She's in charge.

[1512] She has an English accent?

[1513] She does.

[1514] Okay.

[1515] And she said, is that alcohol?

[1516] And she looked at Erica, who had a beer, but she hadn't drank it yet.

[1517] It was out.

[1518] Okay.

[1519] And she was like, oh, yeah, it is.

[1520] Being very forthcoming.

[1521] Sure.

[1522] Nothing to hide.

[1523] No. And she said, okay, we don't, we have a very strict policy.

[1524] We don't allow alcohol.

[1525] We don't allow food.

[1526] And if I see it, you got to go.

[1527] So I'll give you guys a few minutes to pack up.

[1528] And we all, mind you, it's really important to say nothing was opened, correct?

[1529] Right.

[1530] Uh -oh, are we fibbing?

[1531] Well, the beer was open?

[1532] I don't know.

[1533] because I don't really know that much about the beer.

[1534] I think maybe the beer was open, but wasn't drank.

[1535] And then there was wine that was not open that she saw in a friend's bag.

[1536] She said, and I see your wine.

[1537] I already saw it.

[1538] You got to go.

[1539] Got to go.

[1540] And we were like, what?

[1541] Well, everyone was quickly like, oh, my God, so sorry.

[1542] That makes sense.

[1543] We'll just go put it in the car.

[1544] We'll throw it away.

[1545] We don't need this.

[1546] No, already saw it.

[1547] Already saw it.

[1548] If I saw it, you got to go.

[1549] Yep.

[1550] And we were like, well, is there anything we can do?

[1551] We just got here.

[1552] We have all these kids.

[1553] You know, we don't need this stuff.

[1554] Nope.

[1555] Nope.

[1556] Nope.

[1557] I can lose my job?

[1558] And then, okay.

[1559] So then Erica was like, well, can I just go then?

[1560] I'm the one with the beer.

[1561] Yes.

[1562] And then that's when she saw Laura's and she said, well, I saw yours too.

[1563] And then they were like, well, we'll just go.

[1564] And she said, okay, that's fine.

[1565] And then.

[1566] I also had an open bag of cheese it, so I was a culprit as well.

[1567] Sure, sure.

[1568] A mouse with cheese.

[1569] I can't put too fine a point on that.

[1570] You're sitting on a grass football field.

[1571] Yes.

[1572] Okay, just.

[1573] And there's no, you know, we were really.

[1574] It's clearly a picnic area, but go ahead.

[1575] Oh, yeah.

[1576] And we were really picking this apart because we were like, why, how can you not allow food at a place like this?

[1577] Like, unless they had their own food service.

[1578] That would make sense.

[1579] Absolutely.

[1580] No outside food.

[1581] Got to buy the food here.

[1582] We'd love to.

[1583] But if you're taking children to a public pool for the day, are you kidding?

[1584] We have to have Jess come on at some point and do his impression of her because it was so amazing.

[1585] He kept saying, yeah, kids starve here.

[1586] Anyway, so we thought, okay, you know, we'll let her cool off.

[1587] We'll pack up, we'll go.

[1588] I went with them and we'll try to convince her again.

[1589] On our way out So we go up We see another woman Professor Yeah Yes And we said you know Hi And she she knew immediately What was going to happen She kind of rolled her eyes Not at us Right okay And she said Yeah You know That's the head guard She's really strict And I said well You know Nothing was really open Can we just throw it away Or put it in the car And she said Well, that should be fine.

[1590] Just go talk to her.

[1591] Oh, boy.

[1592] Yep.

[1593] I go back up to her.

[1594] You know, we're so sorry.

[1595] We did not know.

[1596] She said it was on all the signs, which it was on the sign of the machine that was impossible to use.

[1597] So obviously, no one is reading that machine because everyone's too busy trying to make the machine work.

[1598] Well, I also want to add, you know, it smells like weed everywhere.

[1599] People are smoking weed.

[1600] People are also nude.

[1601] Yeah, people are new, people are drinking.

[1602] Like, there's a lot going out, which, by the way, awesome.

[1603] Well, they shouldn't be drinking and they should have been, she should have saw it.

[1604] Well, that'll get into my, I have a chapter two of this.

[1605] Okay.

[1606] Okay.

[1607] So then, yeah, so, and she was just not budging.

[1608] She just kept saying, I'll lose my job, I already saw it, already saw it.

[1609] And then, so we left.

[1610] So we had to leave.

[1611] We went into downtown Austin, walked around a bit, went to a jewelry store, I almost bought really expensive earrings, but I didn't.

[1612] Oh, right, right.

[1613] You shook it off.

[1614] You shook it off.

[1615] Uh -huh.

[1616] So now I'm left there.

[1617] I find this out.

[1618] Oh, my God, they booted them.

[1619] I'm like, oh, that's so weird.

[1620] That's not the people I remember.

[1621] I now get to our encampment, and there are two people now just stationed, staring at us.

[1622] Yes.

[1623] And this is going on for 10 minutes, 15 minutes.

[1624] And finally, I'm like, this is bullshit.

[1625] Yeah.

[1626] I go up to them and I said, listen, you cannot stand here and stare at my group.

[1627] the entire time we're here.

[1628] I love this place.

[1629] It's my favorite.

[1630] You're making this a very unfortunate experience for all of us.

[1631] If you're going to patrol, at least go make it seem equal.

[1632] Exactly.

[1633] I don't know what you're talking about.

[1634] We're not posted up here.

[1635] And I go, well, you've been standing here staring at us for 15 minutes.

[1636] What would you call that?

[1637] I'm just doing my job.

[1638] I said, oh, your job is a single out of group and then it escalated, right?

[1639] Yep, sure, sure.

[1640] And then, yeah, this bo's...

[1641] Bozo James was his name.

[1642] So he bounces.

[1643] They bounce finally.

[1644] Like it was, thank God.

[1645] It was like, obviously he's uncomfortable for all three of us.

[1646] They were like, we're not going anywhere.

[1647] I'm all right.

[1648] And I left and then they did leave.

[1649] And then they didn't come back.

[1650] So I kind of thought, okay, good.

[1651] We pushed back a bit.

[1652] They know like, stop fucking with us.

[1653] Yeah, leave us alone.

[1654] And then, oh my God.

[1655] Cut to a plain closed detective now.

[1656] Oh.

[1657] This 19 -year -old.

[1658] She was in.

[1659] And she was a spy?

[1660] Yeah, she was undercover.

[1661] All of a sudden there's just this plain -closed gale, 19, I would come to find out, leaning next to my backpack out of nowhere.

[1662] I'm like, who's this person?

[1663] And she goes, you have broken glass and blood all over this place.

[1664] And I go, what are you talking about?

[1665] You have broken glass and blood right here at your bag.

[1666] Blood?

[1667] I go, broken glass and blood.

[1668] look, she's spying deep into my backpack where she sees a jar of jam that I have in my backpack because I have fucking kids and I have food in case we need to bang out a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

[1669] I go, that is jelly.

[1670] Nothing's broken.

[1671] She's like, you got to throw all that away.

[1672] You got to take that to the car.

[1673] Then she starts repeating, this is a federally protected area.

[1674] This is a federally protected area.

[1675] On the ninth time she said it, I said, listen, I heard.

[1676] heard you.

[1677] It is federally protected.

[1678] You don't need to repeat that again.

[1679] She goes, you're going to give me a 19 year old a bunch of attitude when I'm doing my job.

[1680] And I was like, this is madness.

[1681] I started wondering, like, did they have some team meeting prior to the weekend going like, gang, Formula One's in town.

[1682] You know those people are crazy.

[1683] We got to run a tight ship or we're going to lose complete control of this place.

[1684] So she's now going absolutely.

[1685] Apple.

[1686] She has lost her mind entirely.

[1687] She can barely talk when she keeps repeating federally protected area fairly.

[1688] Now I'm like, you know what?

[1689] And now everyone in the group's like, well, just leave.

[1690] I'm like, no one's leaving.

[1691] I'm taking this food out to, I'm going to take this fucking jam out to my car, put it in there, and we're going to continue to swim because it's been a big hurdle to get in there.

[1692] So I'm taking it out and on the walk, she says federally protected like seven more times.

[1693] I can't, I mean, wow, what an experience.

[1694] get to the, and then she decides on the walk, she's throwing me out.

[1695] Actually, you got to go.

[1696] Oh, wow.

[1697] Okay.

[1698] And when we get to the front of it, there's this taller dude that worked there that I had already interacted with on my swim, like, good time, Charlie.

[1699] Like, I was chatting him up and he was friendly.

[1700] Yeah.

[1701] And she's like, I'm taking that.

[1702] He's out of here.

[1703] And he goes, oh, what happened?

[1704] He has food.

[1705] Okay.

[1706] Was they, they were eating food?

[1707] No, yeah, but he has it.

[1708] And I go, I go, hey, brother, yeah, I had some.

[1709] jam in my backpack, but I was just going to throw it in the car and then come back and goes, yeah, totally, that's cool.

[1710] Well, that made her, of course.

[1711] Now she got undermined it in front of me. I got to tell you, I was like, I've never seen anything like this.

[1712] Is this the thing?

[1713] I know that person's not even a millennial at this point, but like the level, we can't do any of that?

[1714] No, no, no, we can.

[1715] But I don't think that can be because of her age.

[1716] Like, I felt like she was saying And you, like, I felt like I was in one of those college campus things where she's like, you're triggering me. And in fact, when I stepped towards the tall dude to tell him I was going to take the food out, I stepped towards her.

[1717] She jumped back.

[1718] She said, sir, don't you come, don't you come near me?

[1719] And I was like, oh, my God.

[1720] She's pretending I'm assaulting her.

[1721] Oh, Jesus.

[1722] Oh, is it maddening.

[1723] I go through the food in the car.

[1724] I come back.

[1725] She's there.

[1726] I walk back in and now the whole group's leaving.

[1727] I've lost it.

[1728] but no one wants to deal with this anymore.

[1729] So our whole group is packed up.

[1730] And I'm like, I'm still going to go for a swim because I love it there.

[1731] Okay.

[1732] So me, Charlie.

[1733] Yeah, well, now I'm in a for real power struggle clearly.

[1734] And I, you know, I regrettably and embarrassingly am the perfect person to get in one of those struggles with.

[1735] I would have stayed there the entire day and talk to them if I could have because I just couldn't surrender this insane policy.

[1736] So anyways, we swam for another 10 minutes and then we left.

[1737] And then I did stop on the way out.

[1738] And I said to her, hey, I was curious, is this area federally protected?

[1739] Oh, my God.

[1740] And she goes, yes, it's federally protected.

[1741] And I go, it's federally protected.

[1742] And she goes, it's on the sign over there.

[1743] And I said that it's federally protected.

[1744] And I said then, I must have said federally protected 20 times.

[1745] I just wanted to experience what I had experienced.

[1746] It reminded me a lot of these cell phone calls.

[1747] I've told you about them on Stern where they call people in the South because their theory is people in the South will talk to you on the phone forever by just saying hello.

[1748] So they're like, they just go, hey, hey, they call a stranger, hey, and this woman answers, hi, hey, how are you doing?

[1749] Oh, good, good, good.

[1750] So you're doing good?

[1751] Yeah, good, good.

[1752] That's great.

[1753] So you're doing good.

[1754] And this can go on forever.

[1755] So at any rate, I was kind of doing that.

[1756] And then finally, I said, well, that's, well, great.

[1757] It's federally protected.

[1758] Thank you.

[1759] And then I split.

[1760] But yeah, what a bummer of a trip to Burton Springs.

[1761] It was rough.

[1762] I will say when it was happening the first iteration of that, that my part, I said out loud, I'm just, just don't go down there.

[1763] Don't tell Dax what happened.

[1764] I don't want this to become a thing.

[1765] He's going to get really upset.

[1766] It's going to become a thing.

[1767] So just, let's just not.

[1768] I'm glad he wasn't up here.

[1769] Then part two.

[1770] Yeah.

[1771] Yeah, it was meant to be.

[1772] Yeah, I let him.

[1773] You know, that one where they were denying staring at us for 15 minutes, that one I lost my goal.

[1774] It's so weird.

[1775] I mean, you think I'm fucking absolutely stupid?

[1776] Is that what you think?

[1777] Yeah.

[1778] That I don't recognize or are the only people that you are posted up in front of them?

[1779] Okay, fuck that.

[1780] So that we just said to hell of that.

[1781] We're going to wipe that clean from our slate.

[1782] That was Friday.

[1783] Yeah.

[1784] Saturday was qualifying.

[1785] Mm -hmm.

[1786] Went to qualifying.

[1787] It was so much fun.

[1788] And then Sunday.

[1789] Big race day.

[1790] The big race.

[1791] And Moni had a great time.

[1792] It was so fun.

[1793] We got to stay in the Red Bull lounge.

[1794] Yeah.

[1795] Which was so nice.

[1796] I felt guilty.

[1797] Why?

[1798] Because we were in the Red Bull lounge and I was wearing a McLaren.

[1799] I was wearing a Danny shirt.

[1800] I was very proud to wear a Danny shirt.

[1801] But I also felt a little like, oh, they're being really nice.

[1802] And I'm obviously betraying them.

[1803] To be honest, I think it would have been more of an issue if you were in there wearing all Mercedes stuff.

[1804] Oh, God.

[1805] I never would go.

[1806] That's who they're battling.

[1807] in the Constructors Championship.

[1808] So it does, you know, I don't think they're all that worried, you know, that you were, and I had worn a Daniel shirt the day before in there.

[1809] Yeah.

[1810] And also, Danny, like, really early on, I think, like passed someone or something.

[1811] And everyone in the Red Bull section cheered.

[1812] Oh, right.

[1813] Yes, yes.

[1814] He passed signs.

[1815] Yeah, and everyone was really happy.

[1816] And then I was like, oh, everyone loves Danny here.

[1817] This is great.

[1818] Everyone loves Danny, period.

[1819] I know.

[1820] So likable.

[1821] But I got up, we got, okay, so this is going to be the first of many shout -outs that we give.

[1822] So Jeremy and Dan, holy fucking smokes.

[1823] They made that experience.

[1824] Incredible.

[1825] 20 times better than it could have ever been on our own.

[1826] It was, they were so helpful and wonderful.

[1827] And I am so in debt to them for that weekend they gave us.

[1828] And you tell you got to go down in the whole, in the pit.

[1829] Right.

[1830] Now that's shout out number two.

[1831] Blake friend, Blakey, I love you.

[1832] You are just the sweetest human being.

[1833] And yes, he got us a few grid paths is from McLaren.

[1834] So we got to go in the McLaren garage.

[1835] We got to watch them pull out of the garage.

[1836] And we had the headsets and we were listening to what they were talking about.

[1837] You and Aaron and Kristen and I, yeah.

[1838] And it was incredible.

[1839] And we were on the grid row and there was Shaquille O 'Neal.

[1840] And I thought, poor Shaquille O 'Neal.

[1841] That guy could wear a hat and a face mask and sunglasses.

[1842] That's Shaquille O 'Neal.

[1843] I mean, you don't even really need to see anything other than just the height.

[1844] Yeah, exactly.

[1845] It's so impressive.

[1846] Yeah.

[1847] So anyways, he was getting a lot of heat, which I was grateful for because everyone was really focused on him.

[1848] By the way, can't hide when you're him.

[1849] You see him from a quarter mile away.

[1850] Yeah, of course.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] Anyways, that's neither here nor there.

[1853] But that whole experience was incredible.

[1854] I was geeking out so much.

[1855] It was so fun.

[1856] I was having so much nostalgia for college football.

[1857] Oh, right.

[1858] Sports events like that where everyone's just so excited and everyone's rooting for the same thing.

[1859] Yes.

[1860] It's really lovely.

[1861] And then Verstappen won.

[1862] So we always want Danny to win.

[1863] Of course.

[1864] But in the event Danny can't win, for me, it has to be Verstappen.

[1865] Yes.

[1866] And it was an incredible race because right at the end, the two people that we were rooting for the most were experiencing major challenges.

[1867] Verstappen with making an early second pit stop and his tires running out of grip and Hamilton catching him.

[1868] So tons of anxiety there.

[1869] And then Carlos Sines catching Danny.

[1870] having a little more pace and then they had a full -on dog fight and Danny was victorious.

[1871] There was some contact.

[1872] There was a broken arrow.

[1873] And then Carlos started dropping down.

[1874] He started slower laps.

[1875] So Danny was in the clear.

[1876] Switch it over to Max.

[1877] It got so intense at the end.

[1878] But Max held on.

[1879] So we got everything we wanted.

[1880] So fun.

[1881] And since he won and he's on the Red Bull team, champagne exploded everywhere.

[1882] We were in a shower of champagne, which was really fun.

[1883] It was great.

[1884] It was great.

[1885] I can't even believe.

[1886] The whole trip, I just thought.

[1887] We are the most spoiled human beings on the planet.

[1888] And I'm going to take it.

[1889] Yeah.

[1890] I'm going to take it.

[1891] Then, just to cap off a perfect, perfect weekend, Danny and Blake, you're like, what should we do on Monday?

[1892] We have the day off after the race?

[1893] I said, have you ever been tubing?

[1894] I suggest tubing on the San Marcos River.

[1895] So I don't know.

[1896] How many of us were there?

[1897] 30 people?

[1898] We had 12.

[1899] Maybe he had 12.

[1900] Maybe it's like 24 people.

[1901] Yeah, something.

[1902] Oh, yeah.

[1903] Get on the river with 24 people and float down the river.

[1904] Everyone's drinking and having a blast.

[1905] I'm jumping off bridges.

[1906] Everything's heavenly.

[1907] It's so enjoyable.

[1908] Even you are having a wonderful time.

[1909] Oh, I had so much fun.

[1910] Why even me?

[1911] Definitely me. Well, because it's kind of out of your country.

[1912] You're not like one that's going to look up tubing somewhere.

[1913] You're right.

[1914] Because you don't like to me in the water per se.

[1915] Exactly.

[1916] But I was getting, I'm setting up that you were actually having a really great time, which made me happy.

[1917] I was checking in and you were loving, floating around.

[1918] It was great.

[1919] It was great.

[1920] And then, and this is, this is my fault.

[1921] I've been on the San Marcos River a couple times and I thought we were on a section that has this very gentle little spillway.

[1922] Cement, smooth, you just coast over in your tube, not a fucking deal.

[1923] That's what I believe we were coming up to.

[1924] So I've got Delta on my lap and we're first to go through.

[1925] And right as we crest this this kind of drop off oh this is these are just big rocks it all's funneling into this rapid it's a shoot yeah it's a yeah there's a natural shoot so we go through first we come off the tube i'm holding her above my head so that she won't go underwater but there's a point where i'm now getting sucked underwater so if i don't let go of her i'm going to pull her underwater so i let go over and then shoot back up it's like a river rafting movie i see her paddling i swim over and grab her and then I get her to the shore.

[1926] She's not super stoked at what just happened.

[1927] She's crying loudly.

[1928] She's crying loudly.

[1929] I'm bleeding excessively.

[1930] Knee, whatever.

[1931] It doesn't matter.

[1932] And then my, of course, my very next thought when I've got her on the rock is I'm Monica.

[1933] Right?

[1934] Yeah.

[1935] As we've talked about in here, we're not sure that you can swim anymore.

[1936] We just don't know.

[1937] We just don't know.

[1938] We just don't know.

[1939] Yeah.

[1940] So when we're in these tubes and we're coming, we see, you know, from a distance still, the little, the drop -off, the easy drop -off.

[1941] Kristen says, well, we should go that way because we can't go down those rapids.

[1942] And our fearless leader says, says, of course we can.

[1943] And so we're like, all right.

[1944] And then, but also this whole time, I'm Molly.

[1945] and I, our tubes, we're holding ourselves together by our legs.

[1946] And it's really fun.

[1947] And, but I'm backwards then.

[1948] So then I was like, all of a sudden.

[1949] She also has Lily at that point?

[1950] We have Dahlia and Lily.

[1951] Okay, great.

[1952] Right.

[1953] And, uh, two kids with us.

[1954] And, um.

[1955] On their own tubes.

[1956] Four tubes.

[1957] Okay.

[1958] And I'm also holding on to Kristen as well.

[1959] So we're all like in this thing.

[1960] Flotilla.

[1961] Exactly.

[1962] And, uh, all of a sudden, we're getting closer to the area.

[1963] And and's like, Delta's crying.

[1964] Uh -oh, Delta's crying.

[1965] And then Molly's like, oh, Delta's crying.

[1966] And then Kristen leaves and starts paddling very quickly to pass it.

[1967] Uh -huh.

[1968] To go to the shore.

[1969] To go to the shore.

[1970] Exactly.

[1971] So she would miss the rapids.

[1972] And I was like, wait, I want to do that.

[1973] I want to do that.

[1974] I do not want to do this.

[1975] I was really panicking.

[1976] And I was also backwards.

[1977] I was like, wait, should I focus on now moving or should I try to get out?

[1978] And then I'm just got to add, I'm on the rock.

[1979] staring at you because I know there might be problem.

[1980] And I see before you've gone over the rapids, all hell's already broken.

[1981] You were off, as I recall.

[1982] You were off your tube before you even went over.

[1983] I was.

[1984] Yeah.

[1985] Because one of the kids was like, no, I do want to go.

[1986] And I was like, get out of the way.

[1987] Everyone get out.

[1988] I have to be, oh my God, I can't.

[1989] And then I was like, I'll just swim.

[1990] I'll get out of the tube.

[1991] So I got out of the tube and I was already there.

[1992] Then you just went over the falls.

[1993] pulled in immediately in no tube.

[1994] I thought, I was like, but I don't know if I can swim.

[1995] Yes, and I'm like, I'm, I'm just watching the whole thing.

[1996] And I'm thinking like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to need to jump in, like, for sure.

[1997] And you make it pretty quickly to a station of rocks.

[1998] And you go immediately, I didn't like that.

[1999] And I was like, oh, my God.

[2000] I felt, I mean, it was like you and your soulmate Delta, you had both had the exact same experience.

[2001] I just felt so heartbroken the baby.

[2002] I didn't like that.

[2003] I don't even remember saying that.

[2004] So I guess that was just a guttural reaction.

[2005] Also, not to mention my boob was out.

[2006] It came out?

[2007] My boob came out.

[2008] Oh, jeez.

[2009] Everything was completely scatty -wompid.

[2010] I hated it so much.

[2011] And I really was like, I knew it.

[2012] I know myself.

[2013] I know it.

[2014] Like, I, this is why I can't be peer pressure, because I know when I can do something and when I can't.

[2015] And when I can push the limit and when I can't.

[2016] Were you mad at me?

[2017] No, not at all.

[2018] But I should have been way more clear.

[2019] I don't want to do that.

[2020] Yeah, you don't want any adventure on the water.

[2021] I didn't.

[2022] No. I barely want.

[2023] To float.

[2024] Right.

[2025] But then that was so fun.

[2026] So I was like, yeah, it just was, I was, it was so.

[2027] scary.

[2028] But here's where I want to applaud you.

[2029] You turned it around.

[2030] Yeah.

[2031] You got back and I thought, based on what, you know, the situation when you got to the rocks, I thought, fuck, she's done.

[2032] Like, and understandably so she's, this is a wrap for her and we're not really to the pickup point yet.

[2033] So I was starting to compute how I'm going to do that.

[2034] Then Delta went and go down the rest of them, which were gentler.

[2035] So I had to figure out how to, I had to swim back up.

[2036] around that fence to walk her to the end blah blah blah blah blah it was a whole thing then just randomly they're doing some kind of civil works project and they've kind of got these inflatable catchers that are crossing the whole river which we then have to lift everyone's tube over that to continue on anyways it was spectacular day it was I I still look at it as a net positive okay good good good good good I didn't die you didn't die but I almost died and then I and you didn't get any cuts No, I did.

[2037] Oh, you did.

[2038] I got some cuts in a lot of, like, a lot of soreness.

[2039] Okay.

[2040] Like, you had had a seizure at night.

[2041] Perhaps, I don't know.

[2042] But then I felt, if it was felt so embarrassed.

[2043] Yeah, but no one had saw, no one saw except for Molly and I. Yeah, but it was just really embarrassed.

[2044] I just was like, why can't I just, like, do anything?

[2045] And, but then when we met back up with Danny, I was like, did you, how was, did, were you fine on the rapids he said no i almost died i said oh oh okay yeah all right i felt a little better knowing i wasn't the only one and he's very accomplished yes he's a daredevil you know i was thinking after the trip um you know one of the other times he hung out with me i took him motorcycle riding and people were crashing off the side of this mountain and he was coming and i thought you know McLaren would be smart to put it in his contract he's not allowed to hang out with me like they should really consider that they've got quite an investment into him and it might be time for them to exclude me from his life i i i don't disagree then went to salt lick again again at another incredible meal in fact this time the brisket was even better so good oh what a trip it was it was like i kept just getting overwhelmed with like the the amount of oh one other shout out there's really two other shouts we have a lot of shout out is um matt okay matt collins Matt Collins Matt Collins Was that his Instagram?

[2046] Stylus.

[2047] Stylus.

[2048] Matthew Colin Stylus.

[2049] Matthew Colin Styles.

[2050] So prior to this, my full extent of Matt's driving prowess was he had come to the sand dunes once and I put him in a razor and he did well.

[2051] Yeah.

[2052] But I also knew from you that he drives kind of slow generally if he's just cruising around town.

[2053] So before we left.

[2054] He's going to be so mad.

[2055] No, he's not.

[2056] This whole thing, I'm going to blow his pants off right now.

[2057] So right before we left the house and it's, you know, going to the track on race day with the 150 ,000 people also going to the track.

[2058] I asked him before we pulled out, because we were in two cars, what is your, what level of aggression are you comfortable with?

[2059] One out of 10.

[2060] And he said, whatever one's required.

[2061] And I was like, wow, okay?

[2062] And it started slow with some lane changes, this and that, some dancing, some disco.

[2063] And he was never got more than three feet behind the bumper.

[2064] And then it just escalated from there.

[2065] And he was over curbs and in residential neighborhoods.

[2066] And he was an assassin.

[2067] I would compare his performance to Steve McQueen and Bullitt.

[2068] It was amazing.

[2069] I was very impressed.

[2070] I was very scared for him.

[2071] Uh -huh.

[2072] And he rose.

[2073] He rose to the occasion and dominated, and it was mind -blowing.

[2074] Everyone was very, very happy and impressed.

[2075] Okay, that's one shout -out.

[2076] Another shout -out is from the beginning of the trip.

[2077] So what we realized a little too late is that, obviously, it's F -1 Weekend in Austin.

[2078] Obviously, you cannot get a car.

[2079] Cannot rent a car.

[2080] rent a car can't book a car can't do anything no ubers are available out by where we're staying exactly there's so there's some panic of what are we going to do we have we have one vehicle chrysler god bless you chrisler another shout out vince i love you vince yep vince had some pacifica's down there for the race because of alpha rameo he said are you going to need one i said oh my god if i could be black on black on black yes please so so we had 22 people in a seven passenger vehicle Yes.

[2081] And then Laura, thank goodness.

[2082] Shout out number 20.

[2083] She talked to her friend who lives in Austin who knows someone who has a dealership or like a car rental car.

[2084] I don't even know what he has.

[2085] He used car garage.

[2086] I don't know.

[2087] He had cars.

[2088] He did.

[2089] And he, we don't know this guy.

[2090] We don't know anything about this guy.

[2091] No. He's in Laura's phone as Danny car guy.

[2092] Okay.

[2093] Yeah.

[2094] And this beautiful person, he dropped off four cars at the airport.

[2095] This is unreal.

[2096] I know.

[2097] So when we landed, we walked into the parking garage.

[2098] There were four cars for us with the keys in the cars.

[2099] He wanted, he like refused money.

[2100] Right.

[2101] We're like, definitely we're paying.

[2102] We want to pay three.

[2103] Three times what it would have costed a rented cars because he bailed us out and we're happy to pay.

[2104] And his name is Danny Gomez.

[2105] Danny Gomez.

[2106] And do you know the name of his business?

[2107] Unfortunately not.

[2108] Fuck.

[2109] But if anyone in Austin walks around and meets this Danny Gomez, please buy him a drink on us.

[2110] Yeah, and we'll pay you back.

[2111] We'll pay you back.

[2112] We'll Venmo you if you can put a receipt on Instagram.

[2113] To prove it.

[2114] But I got to say, Danny Gomez single -handedly saved our trip.

[2115] It was going to be a fucking disaster.

[2116] I don't even know how anyone was getting to these houses.

[2117] They were 30 miles in the airport.

[2118] We had two houses, too, that weren't next to each other.

[2119] No, they're out in the country.

[2120] People would have been so miserable.

[2121] Like, okay, well, everyone pull a number.

[2122] What six people get to go in the Pacifica out of this house.

[2123] What a short, I'm embarrassed, too, because I rented those houses six months ago.

[2124] Like, I was, I was ahead of it.

[2125] You were.

[2126] I had already secured tickets.

[2127] I, like, I was so ready for this trip.

[2128] I had the van.

[2129] And then it just occurred to me, like, I should look into other rentals just for everyone else.

[2130] Gone, gone, gone, gone.

[2131] What oversight.

[2132] I hadn't, I was not thinking about that at all.

[2133] I never would have thought about it.

[2134] We just got there, but fuck.

[2135] Oh, my God.

[2136] Anyway, so that is the major shoutout of the trip.

[2137] Danny Gomez, for real, like, wow.

[2138] And then I have one more shout out.

[2139] Okay.

[2140] So, you and Kristen had to go.

[2141] to Waco, from Austin to do press for Halebello.

[2142] We opened a factory.

[2143] Do you see pictures?

[2144] They're gorgeous.

[2145] So fun.

[2146] We're pulling up, it's like an industrial complex in Waco.

[2147] There's a bunch of humongous buildings, and we see a quarter mile long diaper, virtually.

[2148] Yeah.

[2149] In the distance.

[2150] And I'm like, could they have possibly decorated a 300 ,000 square foot building, which they did?

[2151] Yeah.

[2152] It's all of our patterns.

[2153] It's amazing.

[2154] So cute.

[2155] Oh, my God.

[2156] I can't believe it's a factory.

[2157] So, so cool.

[2158] Okay, so yeah, we went there for that.

[2159] Okay, so you guys did that.

[2160] Jess and I traveled with the girls back, the kids, and they were great.

[2161] Everything was fine.

[2162] Except, you know, the airport was a little crazy.

[2163] Again, I was like Tuesday.

[2164] That should be fine.

[2165] But it was, it was hectic.

[2166] And then we get through, we get through security.

[2167] Everything's great.

[2168] They've done such a good job.

[2169] and Lincoln says, there's Starbucks there.

[2170] Lincoln says, can I get a cake pop?

[2171] And I said, of course.

[2172] Of course.

[2173] Well, they had just, you know, done a really good job.

[2174] They deserved a reward.

[2175] So I said, of course.

[2176] And Delta was like, me too.

[2177] I was like, yeah.

[2178] And you needed a mug?

[2179] You already had a mug.

[2180] I needed a mug.

[2181] They didn't have them.

[2182] Ugh.

[2183] So then we walk up, we see the Starbucks line is incredibly long.

[2184] And I said, well, let's just look and see if they have them.

[2185] So we walk up.

[2186] And we're like, you know, kind of talking about it.

[2187] Like, oh, do they have them?

[2188] Do they have the cake pops?

[2189] Oh, and Lincoln's like, yeah, I see one.

[2190] I see a cake pop.

[2191] So we get up and there's one.

[2192] Oh, boy.

[2193] And I was like, okay, well, if there's only one, we can see if they have any in the back.

[2194] But if there's only one, like, we'll have to split it.

[2195] And then Delta, of course, is like, she can have it.

[2196] And I was like, okay, great.

[2197] So we almost died yesterday.

[2198] I have a new gratitude for life.

[2199] So we get in at the end of this really long line.

[2200] But it was fine.

[2201] It was like, we'll wait in it.

[2202] We'll get the cake.

[2203] But there was a little fear of like, well, if that someone else in this line gets.

[2204] Has a hankering for a cake pot.

[2205] Yeah.

[2206] We're standing there for like 10 seconds.

[2207] And this incredibly nice man comes up, hands me a bag and says, I was just really worried that somebody would get the cake pot before they got there.

[2208] And I was like, oh, my, what?

[2209] Yeah.

[2210] People are so nice.

[2211] Austin in particular, we keep getting these impossible miracles.

[2212] Last time it was Houston Street with a pontoon boat.

[2213] This time it was Danny Gomez with these cars.

[2214] I don't know how many signs of the universe has got to send us to tell us to get down there permanently.

[2215] It was really sweet.

[2216] I thought that was just the nicest thing ever.

[2217] That is.

[2218] So that was the trip.

[2219] So nice man, if you bought a little girl, a cake pop.

[2220] Okay, if you guys see that nice man, please buy him a drink on us.

[2221] We'll memo you.

[2222] Well, cash app you.

[2223] yeah so that was the trip trip was great um and and we're home now and this was David copperfield's episode which is so fun because I love magic I just love magic and I do have some facts okay so let's just blow through those okay yeah okay so you said his dad was a habadashor and he said his dad never said that and it uh reminded me that my first line in my fifth grade play ever was Here is the hat your worship ordered and I was the Habedasher and Taming of the Shrew.

[2224] I remember that.

[2225] Yeah, yeah.

[2226] But technically...

[2227] People are still talking about that role, that performance.

[2228] Yeah, it's kind of legendary.

[2229] It was small, but I made a big, like, big impact.

[2230] There's no small roles, only small actors.

[2231] I was both.

[2232] The small role and small.

[2233] Okay, Habedasher, in British English, a Habedasher is a business or person who sells small articles for sewing, dressmaking, and knitting, such as buttons, ribbons, and zips.

[2234] In the United States, the term refers instead to a retailer who sells men's clothing, including suits, shirts, and neckties.

[2235] His father did do that.

[2236] Exactly that, yeah.

[2237] His father was a habit, or whether he wants to acknowledge that or not.

[2238] Is Menelow Park where Thomas Edison invented the light bulb?

[2239] Yes.

[2240] Great.

[2241] The Arthur C. Clark quote, he said every new piece of technology is magic.

[2242] He said he messed it up.

[2243] What's the real quote?

[2244] Real quote is, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

[2245] There we go.

[2246] It's a long word indistinguishable.

[2247] But a good one.

[2248] Yeah, really good.

[2249] Good, good, good.

[2250] There's a game that we'll tell people about, but not today.

[2251] Next time.

[2252] Okay.

[2253] We would call that a verbal dump, like a photo dump on Instagram.

[2254] That was our verbal dump of Austin.

[2255] Yeah, you're right.

[2256] One thing I just have to say Our friend Anna Her dad got disappeared by David Copperfield No Yes When did you find that out on the trip Well I forgot that she actually did tell me that a long time ago But then she brought it up again obviously When I said we interviewed him And I said well What does he say And he'll never say he never says That's right He says he disappeared That's right He vanished I couldn't find the Ray ban knock off Ray Band story because obviously when I'm Googling it it's just trying to sell you some that's right yeah um and that's all well I love you and I hope you enjoyed this live performance of a fact check without any editing see you next time bite us in the buns bye follow armchair expert on the Wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcast you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts.

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