We are supported by... Abby Wambach

[0] We are supported by is brought to by Chevrolet.

[1] Find New Roads.

[2] One of your friends is here today.

[3] Oh, man. I mean, I don't know if I can call her my friend.

[4] We're just sort of like DM friends, but I do know her wife.

[5] Yes.

[6] And the two of them are beacons of light for me. I love how they communicate.

[7] I love how open they are.

[8] Today we have Abby Wambach.

[9] Dude, guys, she's an Olympian.

[10] Yeah.

[11] No big deal.

[12] No big D. I'm very interested in Olympians.

[13] Well, because they're special a dish.

[14] You don't get an Olympian every time you walk out of the hospital with a baby.

[15] That's right.

[16] Limited a dish.

[17] They're very limited a dish.

[18] It also takes so much dedication, which we talked about a lot.

[19] And Abby is an American retired soccer player.

[20] She's also a coach, two -time Olympic gold medalist, a FIFA women's World Cup champion, and a member of the No Big Deal National Soccer Hall of Fame.

[21] She's a six -time winner of the U .S. Soccer Athlete of the Year Award.

[22] It's incredible.

[23] What's so fun about the national female soccer team?

[24] I'm not that into soccer or anything.

[25] But when you watch them, you really see everyone collectively doing their part.

[26] Yes.

[27] There's something amazing about watching that very specific team of women.

[28] Just like bosses, but letting people have their moment.

[29] Like, oh, it's just great.

[30] What's weird is in every other sport, you can hold onto the ball.

[31] Like in baseball, you got your catchers, you can hold it.

[32] Like in basketball, you can just hold it with your hands for like a minute if you're dribbling it.

[33] From what I understand, there's like all these different sports where you can hang on to something where you get it and you feel great.

[34] But literally in soccer, the goal is to get it and find the next move.

[35] And so you have to be assessing your teammates at all times.

[36] And what I loved is how Abby described that of like knowing your strength.

[37] but also knowing you don't have to be good at everything.

[38] Find the strengths and the people around you and that's your team.

[39] That's your family.

[40] That was the back tattoo.

[41] Sorry to blow it now.

[42] That was this week's back tattoo.

[43] Yeah.

[44] You got to know what your teammates are good at.

[45] Yeah.

[46] And not feel like you have to do all the things.

[47] Yeah.

[48] You're not alone out there.

[49] And that's one of the beautiful things about soccer.

[50] And she talks about soccer being this like global unifier of love.

[51] And she's also just like very open and honest.

[52] And, you know, Glennon, her wife is a writer and she wrote a book about reuniting with her husband and then like a couple weeks later met Abby and was just like, I think I have to make a different choice.

[53] And then wrote a book untamed about meeting Abby.

[54] And it's just a crazy and beautiful love story.

[55] And they're so honest and open.

[56] And I love how much they've taught me. Awesome.

[57] We got to share it with our audience.

[58] Yeah.

[59] To peek into her.

[60] insight, and here it is.

[61] We are supported by Abby Wambach.

[62] Hello.

[63] How are you?

[64] I feel like I know you all.

[65] It's so weird that we've never actually met in person.

[66] I know.

[67] I kind of feel like that, too, when I was researching and watching videos, I was like, I feel like I already know.

[68] It is strange, though, right?

[69] Because you and Glennon do the same thing that Dax and I do, and that Moni does, like, when we do our friendship stuff, you just sort of put it all out there.

[70] And it does create this, I don't want to say false, but it's definitely a sense of intimacy.

[71] So when you meet people, but I couldn't agree more.

[72] I fully feel like I've been in that bed with you guys when you've been giggling about something or like the toothpaste, anything.

[73] One time Kristen was like, I wish I could be part of their marriage.

[74] Like you really were like.

[75] I did.

[76] You two have this sense of joy and love and ping pong about learning experiences and communication that is just one of the purest forms of love anyone could have with another human being.

[77] It is such a joy to watch because that's one thing, Daxon, I made a commitment about like probably seven or eight years ago.

[78] We were like, maybe if we just show everything, people might learn something, feel something, and isn't that the goal?

[79] Like rather than being like, oh, my personal life is none of your business.

[80] So it was a very deliberate choice to say, yeah, we fight just like everyone else.

[81] Did you and Glennon find that that was the same?

[82] Yeah, actually, I don't know if you've ever heard of a woman named Martha Beck, but she's kind of a spiritual life coach.

[83] And early days when Glenn and I first got together, we were trying to sort it out.

[84] At the time, I was a little bit more public than Glennon was.

[85] And over time, it's kind of flip -flop, which is super cool.

[86] But this woman, she just said to us, look, you don't have to do anything except just love each other.

[87] And the way that Glennon is with her community, I knew coming into my marriage with her that that's what I was getting.

[88] Our love is special for sure, but the biggest form of activism we can do, and it's kind of like what Ellen did 15 to 20 years ago for her talk show, is just to be a gay person in the public world.

[89] Yeah.

[90] And to be a married, yeah, and to be a married gay.

[91] person in the public world.

[92] Like, team Glennon, team Abby, it's hilarious that that's even a thing.

[93] But like, there's so many things that are false about the way that we think about gayness in this culture and the world.

[94] I was actually just asking Chase because he's like the real intellectual in our family.

[95] No offense, Glennon.

[96] But I was like, why has it been such a bad thing to be gay through all of humanity?

[97] And I think that it's like an interesting question.

[98] Like, why?

[99] It's so bizarre.

[100] because there have been gay people from the beginning of time.

[101] Oh, absolutely.

[102] And trans and non -binary.

[103] That's been going on since day one.

[104] I'm always a big fan of citing evolution.

[105] And when we started humans' brains, couldn't get abstract concepts.

[106] And it's so important for your brain to file it in a blink decision.

[107] And I think that any time you went outside the box a long time ago, it felt scary.

[108] And so let's stay inside the box.

[109] it feels safer.

[110] And then it just squashed the spirits of millions and millions and billions of people throughout history that weren't able to be who they were because of completely arbitrary rules.

[111] Incredibly sad.

[112] It's societal boxes.

[113] It's not inherent boxes.

[114] It's ones that we created to feel safe or to feel - Social contracts for sure.

[115] Exactly.

[116] To feel like in the in -group.

[117] And, you know, I think there's a kind of a sense.

[118] scary thing that I hope we're breaking, but that in order to be in the in -group, there has to be an out -group.

[119] And so I think that's how some of this started to form.

[120] It's like, well, I need to be normal.

[121] So that makes that person abnormal.

[122] And it's the thing we just like, you know, have to break.

[123] We are broken inside with this archaic software that tells us to find an out -group and an in -group.

[124] And it just doesn't matter anymore.

[125] It's like we were reading this book with the girls last night, the history of underwear.

[126] And it was fully like King Tutte believed in reincarnation, so he was buried with 145 pairs of panties.

[127] So like, we're over that.

[128] We don't need to put panties 100 % in everybody's graves.

[129] Also, like, people didn't wash their underwear.

[130] They did not, they thought it was like a sign of disrespect.

[131] And so people just went years and years with the same undies.

[132] That's the thing.

[133] That's broken, right?

[134] And we can now admit, I mean, it's a silly example, but we're like, we definitely wash our panties now.

[135] It's like way big.

[136] better for everybody.

[137] We don't stink.

[138] But there are all these higher concepts, like letting someone love.

[139] How the hell does that affect you?

[140] And Abby, I want you to talk a little bit about like your road with this because I come from a community that loves church.

[141] I went to Catholic school.

[142] I love that community.

[143] But I will tell you, the minute the rules started getting specific about who you could love, I was like, fuck, this feels wrong.

[144] This just doesn't feel right.

[145] There was a time in which the Catholic Church joined up with politicians.

[146] And I think probably even beyond just the Catholic Church, but I think predominantly it's the Catholic Church behind this.

[147] And they decided, okay, what are two ways we could mobilize a group of people to get behind certain policies?

[148] And gayness and abortion, where they're top two things, that Christian leaders were talking with government politicians around how can we get and keep getting voted into office.

[149] What happened was basically they were just like, look, we're going to take these two huge issues.

[150] Obviously, we all know about these issues now.

[151] And we're going to make sure that the world knows about them.

[152] And we're going to make sure that we keep getting voted into office.

[153] Right.

[154] So at the end of the day, for me, I have an understanding.

[155] of gayness, and I believe that the church is inherently good.

[156] I deeply believe that people who go to church are good.

[157] I believe that the idea and the concepts around it are inherently good.

[158] Like, I think that what church is trying to get across is goodness, right, for the most part.

[159] But I do think that when you mix church and money, things just get bad.

[160] And I grew up, like you, Kristen, and the Catholic church.

[161] And nobody ever said to me, hey, look, you can't be gay.

[162] Otherwise, you're going to go to hell.

[163] I just knew it, like inside of my bones.

[164] That's even worse.

[165] Yeah.

[166] That's worse.

[167] And it's because they're like insidious gay jokes or insidious comments or seeing somebody else be othered, whether it be inside my family unit at my school or whatever it might be.

[168] So I just knew from an early age that I had a choice to be made and I had to kind of save myself.

[169] So I became a militant atheist.

[170] When there is inclusion, that is also exclusion.

[171] So like when you're in one group, you're out of another.

[172] And when you're out of one group, you're in another.

[173] So I was like, all right, well, that means then I am for sure an atheist.

[174] And I'm going to be the best atheist there is.

[175] And so when Glennon and I actually first met, I was still in this world.

[176] And She just said one thing to me once, and it still pisses me off.

[177] She goes, you know, honey, you're fighting really hard against something that you don't believe in.

[178] And I was like, hmm, why am I fighting so hard?

[179] Because I think, like, deep down, I have a sense that there's something that I don't understand that is a little bit magic about this world, that I will never understand.

[180] And I think my pride was just getting the better of me because I just wanted to be a part of the correct group.

[181] You know, I wanted to be a part of the group that knew the truth.

[182] You were acting in opposition to the box you were put in.

[183] You are not mutually exclusive to your own ideas.

[184] Like, you can be a couple different things.

[185] And you don't have to seek the answer all the time.

[186] Like, I've recently come to terms of that.

[187] I'm like, oh, I'm never going to know.

[188] Because it was when my kids asked me, like, what happens when we die?

[189] And I was like, real talk?

[190] Nobody knows.

[191] You might become a flower.

[192] You might fly up in the sky.

[193] You might just lay there in the ground.

[194] You might become a bug.

[195] I mean, I don't know.

[196] But the cool thing about not knowing is we can sort of wonder together.

[197] And you just believe something that comforts you.

[198] You know, think of a story in your head that comforts you as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

[199] But so many people are allergic to not knowing.

[200] And I'm just kind of cool with not knowing.

[201] But it's control.

[202] It's control.

[203] The reason we're allergic.

[204] to not knowing is because we need to know.

[205] Because if we don't know, then the world is chaos.

[206] Like, it's very human to seek answers for that reason.

[207] But what you said about just no one told you being gay was bad.

[208] You just knew it in your bones.

[209] You knew it because society was telling you.

[210] That's similar to being a woman.

[211] There are things you know that we can't do or we shouldn't do.

[212] But no one's saying it explicitly, but you know because of the cues of society.

[213] is giving.

[214] And what's funny is that we are the ones that pick up on the cues, you know?

[215] Like, the dog can only hear the whistle at the high pitch.

[216] Men are like, well, but no one ever told you to stay small, but it's like, but are you joking me?

[217] Every single social cue I've ever gotten in my life was stay small.

[218] Oh my God.

[219] And that's like, and not to throw them under the bus, of course, but Dax, at one point when we first started the podcast, he would say stuff.

[220] Like, I think it's actually like women, they're in charge of the magazine.

[221] So they're the ones telling you to be small.

[222] I'm like, but what are they being told from who?

[223] Like, you have to climb the ladder.

[224] Yes.

[225] And it's a long ladder because, listen, I have grown so much just by being married to Glennon Doyle.

[226] It feels like her brain and heart is like five years down the road from the rest of us.

[227] So I'm always playing catch up.

[228] Like, I feel like I am the biggest racist and the biggest misogynist and the biggest homophobic person in the world.

[229] Just sitting next to her.

[230] Yeah, she's like, always correcting me. She's like, I don't know about that.

[231] And, you know, I grew up in a male dominated sports world where signing a contract is saying, yes, I'm taking this less than contract, is accepting and agreeing with my own demise on some level.

[232] I just think it's really important to know that we are all on a journey.

[233] If you don't or haven't examined your own internalized barometer of what race is to you and where it falls in the importance line and where sexism falls and where you and what you're responsible for.

[234] Like we all have to go into our own selves and evaluate where we're at.

[235] I have more patience for people because I am that person.

[236] I see Glennon being so much more further ahead of me and having done so much more personal work.

[237] But I see her do the work and I see the payoff.

[238] So it gives me that confidence to want to do more personal work to become less sexist.

[239] Like, I still have it in me because of the Catholic Church.

[240] Those are really hard talons to like pull out over the years with my own thoughts on homosexuality.

[241] I mean, we were at the bank recently and Glenn and I were signing paperwork and of course say Hannah's papers and it says husband and wife, 2021.

[242] And Glennon doesn't have any kind of chill in her.

[243] Like, she will never let something just, like, go.

[244] She just doesn't have that in her DNA.

[245] So she just, like, pushes the paper back to the middle of the table.

[246] And she's like, these are incorrect.

[247] Yeah.

[248] And making everybody at that table uncomfortable, including me, the wife.

[249] Yeah.

[250] Well, it was not a woke bank.

[251] Right.

[252] Exactly.

[253] As opposed to all the woke banks.

[254] Yeah.

[255] That's right.

[256] That's right, Monica.

[257] They are now, though.

[258] But, like, we got back into the car and I, I just said to her.

[259] I said, you know, it's so interesting.

[260] People probably out in the world would think that I would be one of the people that would speak up.

[261] But I have been so conditioned as a gay person and having been a gay person longer than Glennon, I have been so conditioned to just like take those kind of insidious moments and just like swallow them.

[262] Whereas Glennon grew up with straight privilege, right?

[263] And so she just like, boom, no, this is.

[264] is not happening here, you know?

[265] And I think for me, I think that some of us gay folks need to like unlearn some of the things that we've been swallowing and like take on some of the straight privilege so that we can actually make and say the thing when we need to say the thing.

[266] In your defense, the reason that you are more willing to like let it go is because it's self -protective.

[267] You've learned over time, as you said, you've been gay for much longer.

[268] So you learned over time, if you fight every single.

[269] battle, you'll get injured at least once or twice.

[270] And so sometimes your brain is like, you know, always doing this dance.

[271] And I feel that as a minority, I've had to do the same thing.

[272] Like, which battles do I fight?

[273] When this person says, where are you from?

[274] Do I do the thing?

[275] Do I say, what do you mean?

[276] Where are my parents from?

[277] Or do I just give them the answer they, I know they're looking for?

[278] You know, it's always this battle in your head.

[279] And it's unfair that you have to be the one to sort of fight it.

[280] And it's great that Glennon is willing to always be the person that's like, no, this is wrong.

[281] This is wrong.

[282] Because we need people like that.

[283] Because sometimes you just kind don't have the fight in you in that moment.

[284] That's right.

[285] A woman that I know, Dr. Yaba Blay, she's an incredible activist and a black woman who has taught me so much about race and my own stuff inside of that.

[286] And she says, we laugh so we don't cry.

[287] And I think that that is so true for so many minorities, any kind of marginalized person in this world.

[288] Come on, if this is our experience and history has told us that change happens, but it's slow, might as well, like, enjoy the time that we're here and try not to take everything so personally, I guess.

[289] But it is.

[290] I mean, it is offensive.

[291] All of it is offensive.

[292] It's like, you're right, though, Monica, like, what battles should I fight?

[293] Yeah.

[294] It's also interesting because Because as a gay person, as a minority, as a woman, we're a part of the water, too.

[295] So it's not like we're necessarily, like, standing outside the river.

[296] Like, we're in it, too.

[297] And we're susceptible to getting those same ideas placed inside our brain.

[298] So, you know, we can't just keep pointing the finger out.

[299] It's also within us to change as well.

[300] That's right.

[301] Guys, I love this conversation.

[302] I'm just going to tell you that right now.

[303] Okay, Abby.

[304] You're an insane superstar.

[305] Everyone already knows that.

[306] So it's probably an icon.

[307] Yes, you're an icon.

[308] Sports fiend.

[309] I mean, it's unbelievable.

[310] And what I love so much is when you are described, it's always with the caveat, regardless of gender, you have the highest scoring.

[311] Second high scoring?

[312] Second.

[313] Yeah.

[314] So I was the world record holder for most goals scored in international soccer.

[315] And then two years ago, a woman from Canada, her name is Christine Sinclair, she overtook my record, which is great because records are meant to be broken.

[316] And although my kids did say, like, well, what am I going to say now?

[317] Like, my mom is the number two world record holder.

[318] Yeah.

[319] Yeah, that is what you're going to say.

[320] And it's still going to be wildly impressive moving on.

[321] Yeah.

[322] Yeah.

[323] I mean, it's cool.

[324] I had a really good career.

[325] I loved what I did.

[326] But there are some things about my career that, I mean, Kristen and Monica, I'm sure you both know, like, when you do something very well.

[327] And it's just strange to be out of the billions of people around planet Earth, to be like, like, they literally handed me a word that you are the number one player.

[328] And I'm like, come on.

[329] Like, this is, this is not.

[330] Who chose this?

[331] You know, like, out of all of the people, they gave me the one award.

[332] And it's a weird thing.

[333] So I feel grateful of the time that I played.

[334] I loved every second of it.

[335] And also I have really loved my retirement because I am a person and I've been able to enter back into humanity.

[336] I think that as a pro athlete, there's a sense that I had to be a kind of a person that lived into the best in the world.

[337] So I was very good at not quitting, right?

[338] I was very good at, like, being fit.

[339] I was very good at scoring goals.

[340] I was very good at playing hard.

[341] And it very much contributed to so much of the problems of my life because of that attitude and mentality.

[342] So it was very good at drinking, right?

[343] I was very good at partying with my friends.

[344] And that life just doesn't serve someone for long periods of time, right, for forever.

[345] So since I've gotten my retirement, I've gotten sober, I'm five years sober.

[346] I literally met Glenn in a month after my sobriety birthday, my number one day without drinking.

[347] And everything in my life has changed because of that.

[348] Everything positive.

[349] And playing was good, but retirement's better.

[350] Where do you keep your gold medals?

[351] Do you hang them on the wall of the bathroom?

[352] Are they, like, in a safe or like, do you wear them around the house?

[353] Like, what's the deal?

[354] Where do they get placed?

[355] Well, back to King Tut in the panties.

[356] They're in my underwear drawer.

[357] Yes.

[358] Yes.

[359] I mean, where else can you put it.

[360] Like, people will steal it.

[361] And why would you put it in a safety deposit box to never be seen again?

[362] So, anytime, like, a little kid comes over who might have any interest in sports, my kids are like, do you want to see my mom's gold medal?

[363] I'm like, yes.

[364] That's awesome.

[365] So cute.

[366] Yeah, it's sweet.

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[425] You in your very well -known Barnard speech, you talked a lot about something that is incredibly important, which is pay gap, that women are earning 80 cents for every dollar.

[426] One of the things you specified in it that I don't think people know is you were getting this fancy award with Peyton Manning and Kobe Bryant and you, and you were talking about walking off stage.

[427] Can you explain what you said there?

[428] Yeah, so ESPN called, and they have an award show every year called the SB's.

[429] It's like Oscars or Emmys for sports.

[430] And they decided they were going to give me and two other athletes, what's called the ICON SB Award.

[431] And so Kobe Bryant, may he rest in peace.

[432] And Peyton Manning and myself were getting this award.

[433] It was in 2016.

[434] So, you know, I had lines and I'm not good at memorizing.

[435] I would love for you to teach me how to memorize lines better.

[436] She's just a savant at it.

[437] It's so weird.

[438] When she helps me with my audition, she'll read it once and then she can do everyone's lines.

[439] It's insane.

[440] It's a muscle.

[441] It's just like a bicep.

[442] You just got to use it every day.

[443] Oh, my gosh.

[444] Okay.

[445] Well, that's good to know that I might be able to get better at it.

[446] But anyways, we're on stage.

[447] have some lines.

[448] I'm nervous as hell about saying the line.

[449] I have anxiety about memorizing.

[450] I have like a deep fear that I'm stupid.

[451] So I nail the lines.

[452] And the three of us turned to walk off stage and something entirely different happened.

[453] I was like so grateful to be there.

[454] I was so like, this is Kobe and Peyton.

[455] Like some of the most legendary athletes that have ever played sports.

[456] And here I am.

[457] Right.

[458] And then when the three of us walked off stage, something else happened.

[459] And I started to develop a kind of anger that I had never let myself feel before for some reason.

[460] And I was supposed to go out and party with the friends that I had there, some of my former teammates and some of the other celebrity athletes.

[461] But I told the driver, I was like, just take me back to the hotel.

[462] I just want to go lay down.

[463] And I realized that night that I had spent my whole career like I did on that stage, just feeling grateful.

[464] And I think many women could understand that.

[465] You know, I thought on some level, because I was only comparing myself to other women, I thought I had it good.

[466] Comparing myself to other women in other industries, comparing myself to even other teammates.

[467] Like, I was one of the highest paid players on my team.

[468] I have nothing to complain about, right?

[469] But this experience of walking off stage next to these two men who had both collectively earned over hundreds of millions of dollars in their career.

[470] And by the way, nobody's trying to take their money.

[471] They earned their money.

[472] Yeah.

[473] And I was like trying to figure out what kind of job I was going to get so that I could pay my mortgage at the end of that month.

[474] Like, that's true.

[475] And you had all worked the same amount, like physically, mentally, you're getting the same award.

[476] You're getting the same award.

[477] You had dedicated yourself to your specific type of sport, yet they walk off basically holding luggage full of cash.

[478] Yeah.

[479] Their life is set.

[480] Yeah.

[481] All they need to worry about is where they're going to invest their money.

[482] And my worry is like mortgage bills.

[483] And so I understood deeply that this was not just a problem that I was insulated from.

[484] Like, I was a part of the problem too.

[485] So I promised myself two things at night.

[486] Number one, the Alex Morgan's, the Crystal Duns and the Megan Rapinos of the world, the next national team players would not share this experience with me. And that more importantly, number two, I understood that if this is happening to me, this is happening to every woman on the planet in every industry, like no matter what.

[487] And that it wasn't okay.

[488] And I think that we have to switch our mindsets because the world teaches us to compare ourselves to each other.

[489] It is the reason why only two seats at every boardroom table are dedicated to women.

[490] It's because, Because the world has taught us women to fight against each other, not to look at this table of 10 seats and go, why don't we have five of these chairs?

[491] Yeah, exactly.

[492] Right?

[493] And then I'm going to take it another step because I have evolved this thought.

[494] I'm tired of needing to require these chairs at these tables.

[495] We women, Kristen, and you, Monica, we need to start owning the fucking tables.

[496] We need to stop renting the chairs.

[497] We need to own shit.

[498] Yeah.

[499] Right?

[500] That is where the real power is.

[501] That night was so profound for me because, you know, I was retiring and I didn't know what it was going to do next.

[502] And like life threw a brick in my face.

[503] And so I've just been dedicating the rest of my time to making sure that all women everywhere have a voice, that all women in every industry understand that they need to compare themselves to their male counterparts to the people who not just are around that table, but the people in their communities, the people in their jobs, the people in their homes.

[504] Women have been dropping out of work for the last 18 months to 24 months.

[505] People are like, why do you think women are stopped working during the pandemic?

[506] Because they don't earn as much as their husbands.

[507] Yeah, exactly.

[508] It's easy.

[509] Glennon taught me this beautiful thing early on in our relationship.

[510] She was like, look, I can't be a single parent.

[511] And when you come in and you ask me, what can I do?

[512] It means that you are not a 50 % share in this marriage.

[513] It means I am carrying the.

[514] entire mental load for our family.

[515] We call it the ticker.

[516] She said, I am constantly tickering for our whole family.

[517] And you aren't.

[518] I am carrying all of the mental load for our family.

[519] I got it.

[520] I was like, you're totally right.

[521] I'm an assistant.

[522] I'm walking into the room saying, what can I do?

[523] She's like, I want you to walk into the room and be like, hey, I'm doing this thing, X, Y, and Z. I know that that thing is taking care of.

[524] We both have to be tickering at the same time.

[525] So now I just have tickering sessions.

[526] I'd be like, hey, do you want to ticker with me?

[527] And we just talk through the day.

[528] What are we going to do today?

[529] Who's going to do what?

[530] And it was an invitation for me to step into a role.

[531] And by the way, I'm a woman.

[532] They classify me as a nurturer.

[533] I should have stepped into this role like the history books have taught us.

[534] But no, though there are gendered roles in relationships and marriages, somebody's got to do it when you're in a homogenous relationship, in a homosexual relationship, you know?

[535] So, I don't know.

[536] I got off tangent there.

[537] I love that tangent, though, so much.

[538] Like, my hands were in the air, half of your tangent, because I was just, like, trying to take in every word.

[539] Dax and I went through a similar thing.

[540] Like, when we had kids, you know, we had read this book, Brain Rules for Baby, and it talked about sharing the workload.

[541] And he is in commitment, everything I want him to be.

[542] In practice, sometimes society influences him.

[543] But he's very open to hearing a critique about that.

[544] So, like, when we had kids and like, you know, the one -year -old is screaming and the three -year -old is up and it's midnight or something, there would be times where he made such a comfortable space that when his nurturing or his tickering didn't kick in automatically, I would turn over and I'd go, you're up.

[545] This is the practice of, this is on you.

[546] I did a bunch of stuff earlier and I don't want this mental load right now.

[547] I'm not going to pick up this mental load.

[548] And it was like a polite reminder that we had really agreed to do it 50 -50.

[549] And it was just through a little bit of practice and sort of untraining that he became an incredible, incredible father.

[550] I can't emphasize enough how important it is for the relationship between both parents to have this mentality, to have this practice in place, especially me coming in late to the party.

[551] I came in, I was like, Insta Parent.

[552] And had I not taken on this tickering as a true value of our family's, ethics and how we roll as a group and a unit, I wouldn't be as close to our children.

[553] Because guess who sees the tickering?

[554] Guess who sees the impact of the time and the thought that goes into running a whole family, the children.

[555] Right?

[556] So like the kids, they know that I'm like the money person in our family.

[557] So when they need something, which I love.

[558] A budget.

[559] Yeah.

[560] They come to me. They're like, hey, can I have this?

[561] Hey, can I have that?

[562] They don't bother Glenn in with that.

[563] And they don't come to me when they need to, like, have their essays edited for school.

[564] Like, they go to Glenn.

[565] There can still be lanes.

[566] Yes.

[567] No matter what your gender is or what kind of relationship you're in, there is nothing sexier you can do for your partner than to pick up some slack.

[568] I mean, it is the sexiest thing ever.

[569] And my, you know, one of my old roommates, Katie, had taken this class one time and it was like, understanding men celebrating women or something crazy.

[570] that was like a relationships class.

[571] And one of the things she came home, she was like, do you know if you can drop the word protect into a conversation with a man, he will be nicer to you for five days?

[572] And I was like, wait, what?

[573] And so full disclosure started using it fully.

[574] We were walking the kids to preschool and we'd be holding our hands across the street.

[575] And I go, see how daddy's standing in between us in the car.

[576] He's such a good protector.

[577] And I would see his eyes light up.

[578] And it was like a wind up toy.

[579] Because there are moments where, and I'm not going to simplify this to men, every human on this earth can be very simple.

[580] Even the smartest ones, they can be simple as hell.

[581] That's right.

[582] Absolutely.

[583] We actually just recorded a podcast a couple weeks ago.

[584] And Glennon's sister said something like that.

[585] She's just like, I am more inclined to have sex with you.

[586] If you have taken something off of my to -do list without me having to tell you anything.

[587] 100%.

[588] I think sometimes this can sound manipulative or it can sound superficial.

[589] And it's not because what it's at the root of is saying, I see you.

[590] I see you, I know your needs, and I'm going to fill in the gaps.

[591] It's not a gross thing to be like, this is a protector because you're saying, I see that he is protecting, and I'm calling it out and making it known.

[592] And knowing that, and if I say it out loud, why wouldn't I do as his wife everything in my power to make him be in a good, happy mood?

[593] Feel good.

[594] I'll say it in every other sentence.

[595] And he should do the same, by the way.

[596] It just has to be an equal.

[597] Well, and newsflash, like in any marriage that's over five years old, some of this stuff is required, right?

[598] It's like the cost of entry of a day in order to create, because we are firm believers in creating the life that you want and being capable of creating and being in power of having the life that you want.

[599] And so some of these things, though they might seem superficial, like, I mean, Kristen, when you said that, that, I was like, wow, if Glennon ever said to me that I protect her, I have more masculinity in me in that way, like my brain lit up.

[600] I was like, oh, that's a drug.

[601] Yep.

[602] Yeah, you just got to drop that word in.

[603] I guess the seminar was great.

[604] Well, what's it true?

[605] I think it was called like celebrating women, understanding men or something.

[606] That should have been the name of this podcast.

[607] I do want to go back to real quick to something he said about the pay gap.

[608] What kind of because I do think this is all so, so important, and I don't want to skip over it, that part of the reason it's so hard is because currently at this stage, men are the ones that are hiring the women.

[609] That's right.

[610] So there is this inherent power dynamic, and there is this inherent feeling of, you have to be grateful.

[611] This person gave you a job.

[612] This person gave you a job.

[613] You should be grateful for that.

[614] You shouldn't be the one to try to usurp it or take a seat at the table next to them because they gave you the job.

[615] How dare you?

[616] So I do think there's right now this, it's a stumbling block.

[617] And it's what you said.

[618] That's why we need more women in charge of bringing other women up.

[619] So this isn't an issue anymore.

[620] Yeah.

[621] And listen, I have a really interesting way I think that breaks this down very simply.

[622] So big business doesn't give a shit.

[623] They don't care about feelings, right?

[624] They care about money.

[625] They care about shareholders.

[626] They But here is what I think is starting to turn.

[627] Most Gen Ziers, millennials, they want to be a part of brands that have impact.

[628] That's not just about the product they're selling, that the brand that they're attaching themselves to and they're spending their money on makes them also feel something, right?

[629] And one of the things that big businesses starting to wrap its mind around is hiring more women to get to some sort of 50 -50.

[630] It is happening.

[631] Most businesses are hiring same amount of men as women from the ground up.

[632] But when you start to get into the C -suite level positions, that's when you see the huge discrepancies.

[633] Now, something has to give because a lot of these big companies are saying, well, there just aren't that many good women.

[634] And I'm just saying, I'm here, I'm telling you that that's bullshit.

[635] It's bullshit.

[636] It's because of the system that's in place doesn't allow women the space or the network to be seen.

[637] How many business deals are happening in cigar bars, in golf courses, whatever, and women aren't given privilege in those certain spaces.

[638] And then when you think about it from like a macro perspective, all these big businesses have to understand that every single idea that gets created by that business, if this little idea hasn't been filtered through the mind of every person that is going to consume the idea, then that specific idea is now going to be false on some level in some way.

[639] It's not going to ring true to every single person who's going to consume it.

[640] So from like a brand and consumer perspective, you're missing people who are going to buy up that product.

[641] Well, it's a bad business move.

[642] It's like as evidenced by the Ambien stuff.

[643] They only tested them on guys because, I don't know, it was like something about our periods or something.

[644] We didn't want to be involved in the study.

[645] Too messy.

[646] So they were, they played blood everywhere.

[647] So they just tested it on men.

[648] And then guess what?

[649] Find out a couple years later that it was like, oh, shit.

[650] This type of drug affects women because of hormone levels way, way different.

[651] And that needed to be in the equation.

[652] I mean, I will say this, just to play devil's advocate for one second, like, I know there are qualified women out there.

[653] but I think what we're missing is the middle zone, the zone that takes women from an undergrad degree to the mentorship and the graduate degree needed or, look, I don't know anything about college.

[654] I didn't even graduate, but I'm thinking that these are smart words to use to get them to that CEO position because if that middle isn't strengthened, there is going to be a time when the data supports them of like, yeah, but I tried to find all these qualified women and then they didn't have the degree I needed.

[655] Well, okay.

[656] No, that's bullshit.

[657] That's bullshit, though, Kristen.

[658] And I'm going to push back a little because what you're saying is that they have never given a man a job without being qualified.

[659] They keep giving men jobs.

[660] They keep giving men promotions, especially white men, jobs, promotions, CEO seats before they're qualified.

[661] And so this is one thing that Glennon always tells me to do.

[662] She just always says switch it.

[663] When I have an idea or I'm feeling like a certain way, she'll go switch it.

[664] And so I put it in the male's perspective.

[665] And men have been given opportunities before they were ready since the beginning of time.

[666] So why not actually implement those same practices with women?

[667] You just took this to me work I need to do.

[668] I'm an ambassador for the Women's Peace and Humanitarian Fund leg of the U .N. And all of the data is that if you have women in your business, it does better, financially.

[669] Financially.

[670] So the bottom line improves.

[671] Believe me, I wrote a book called Wolfpack about this whole.

[672] concept of creating networks for women that support other women.

[673] Listen, you're right and that so many of us are like, well, we need to make sure that the women are qualified because let's say that they get there and they're not going to be good enough.

[674] That's our own fear.

[675] That's our own internalized misogyny coming out in certain ways.

[676] And I have been totally the worst at this.

[677] I mean, I had mostly male coaches my whole life.

[678] And then the second a woman coach came in on, I was like, no, she's going to suck because she just hasn't had the training.

[679] She hasn't had the same experience.

[680] And that is what the world keeps teaching us.

[681] She was the best coach I ever had.

[682] And I had to buy into her at some point.

[683] But at first, I was not sold.

[684] I was like, this is going to go very badly.

[685] And nobody's going to listen to her like they would a man. She doesn't know as much as a man knows, right?

[686] And so it's like we can't talk out both sides of her.

[687] our mouths, we can't be like, well, the women are required.

[688] What we do need to do is support women, supporting women, and find those networks and create those packs of women.

[689] Because it's the only reason I was able to succeed on the field.

[690] It wasn't because I was damn good at soccer, is because I was damn good and had damn good teammates, you know?

[691] And if we could do that all over in every industry and every woman creates her own kind of wolf pack to make her better, stronger, faster in whatever industry we're talking about, the world would absolutely be better, and the world would have more women leaders, for sure.

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