My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark XX
[0] This is exactly right.
[1] And welcome to my favorite murderer.
[2] That is Georgia Hartstark.
[3] And that is Karen Kilgareff.
[4] And this is podcasting.
[5] Hey.
[6] Whoa.
[7] It's this.
[8] Yes, it's this interesting.
[9] Is this the first time you ever listen to a podcast?
[10] Yes.
[11] Doesn't get better.
[12] This is it.
[13] Welcome to the wonderful older podcasting.
[14] Hey.
[15] Listen, we're the pros.
[16] So take it from us.
[17] Listen is the first word in that sentence and could have been the last because that's all you got to do.
[18] It's all you got to do.
[19] Yeah.
[20] Pay attention to the road.
[21] Yeah.
[22] You're driving on.
[23] Keep your eyes open, please.
[24] Oh, yeah.
[25] Which is a part of paying attention.
[26] Right.
[27] But not listening.
[28] Yeah.
[29] No, you can listen to us, but keep your eyes on the road.
[30] Yeah.
[31] And then if you get the shadow of a large, like a big ram truck coming toward the side of your car.
[32] Mm -hmm.
[33] Gas it.
[34] Yeah.
[35] Gas it.
[36] Go and then keep listening.
[37] Like, you know that is the thing that makes me the angriest.
[38] Top two in a movie is surprise car accidents, which is like, it's so infuriating where it's like that does not need to be realistic.
[39] Car accidents are the worst thing to happen to people.
[40] Yes.
[41] And then when they go in like slow motion and you're watching the person turn upside down and the shattering of the, oh my God.
[42] Surprise car act.
[43] Yeah.
[44] They're very jarring to a. point where whenever you see someone driving in a movie now, you're like, when's a surprise?
[45] Even if it's like a romance, you're like, when's this Hallmark movie surprise car accident?
[46] I'm braced.
[47] The second I see somebody, an actor going back and forth real fast with the steering wheel, unrealistically, I'm like something's going to happen.
[48] The first time it was a very strange Julianne Moore movie in the late 90s or early 2000s.
[49] I think she was running after a specter or There was a book that was haunted.
[50] I can't remember, but it was the first time I had experienced it.
[51] And it was so shocking, I kind of couldn't breathe.
[52] I was like, you're not allowed to put me in a car accident.
[53] Yeah, yeah, because you're witnessing it as if it's happening to you.
[54] Yeah, they're trying to make it happen to you.
[55] Can you guess my number one above surprise car accidents?
[56] That you hate in a movie?
[57] Is it a surprise thing?
[58] Yeah.
[59] Also, or just something you hate.
[60] A surprise thing you hate.
[61] in movies.
[62] It's not tornadoes.
[63] I don't know why suddenly I'm thinking about the movie Twister.
[64] Don't ask me why.
[65] Go inward instead of outward.
[66] Because the number two is outward in.
[67] Something happens inside of you?
[68] Heart attack.
[69] I was trying to give you a clue.
[70] I didn't get it.
[71] What is it?
[72] Surprise throwing up.
[73] When people just turn and throw up and then all of a sudden you're like, well, that's a can of Campbell's chunky soup or like you immediately start, I immediately start thinking of the prop people having to make fake puke.
[74] And clean it up time and time.
[75] I get it.
[76] Next take.
[77] Next take.
[78] You have to clean it up and do it again.
[79] You don't mind it like when they're retching and it's clearly going to throw up, but you don't want like surprise throwing up.
[80] Right.
[81] There's for a little while, I guess this was more on TV shows.
[82] People would just turn and barf, like surprise style.
[83] And it bummed me out every time because I couldn't look away fast enough.
[84] It's so gross.
[85] It's so gross.
[86] What do you hate in movies besides the length and being there?
[87] I don't like the crazy camera.
[88] Shakiness.
[89] Like I get car sick from a movie so quickly that's like trying to be like actual point of view.
[90] So they're like of a person.
[91] So they're making it all like the wobbly and shit.
[92] Like Cloverfield.
[93] Yes.
[94] Like I'm watching this because it's a movie.
[95] So please get the fucking camera on a tripod and leave it there.
[96] You know?
[97] If you can't do that with the dialogue and the fucking action and everything like that, quit it.
[98] quit yeah you know i also don't like when they use a really like a dolby deep bass sound as a scare tactic in like um in the movie theaters when you're yes when like will smith was the in the vampire world and it was like just the zombie fast zombie vampire type people and him left in the world and he like turns a corner and there's just a pack of them standing there and it goes like that but like it literally feels like a car crashed into the building or something like it's the craziest anyway like that doesn't happen in real life maybe it's like the sound of him like shitting his pants or something like that inside it inside yeah but god forbid something happens to you where a Dolby atmus level base hits you that's when you know yeah and that's when you know it's peak podcasting and that's when you know the best podcast is playing.
[99] What do you got?
[100] What's going on with you?
[101] That's why I just talk for 20 minutes.
[102] That's all I got.
[103] That's all I got.
[104] That's all I got.
[105] I keep trying to watch Shogun and being put asleep by the subtitles and then going into a Shogun dream state that I don't have a problem with at all, but it isn't, I have no idea where I am in the show.
[106] I'm not, I get that.
[107] I'm not ready to recommend Manhunt yet because I need to give it a little more time, the one about, you know, John Wilkes Booth and Lincoln.
[108] Although I love that they're showing John Wilkes Booth like a little bitch.
[109] Like he's such a little like fuck boy bitch in it.
[110] He's so dislikable.
[111] Congrats to the actor.
[112] He's like playing it so like such a little bitch.
[113] Like a true actor.
[114] Like a true.
[115] He's like playing an actor playing an actor.
[116] He is.
[117] And it's going well.
[118] That time period usually bores me civil war, but Vince wanted to watch it.
[119] But I actually am interested in it.
[120] So that's a good thing.
[121] They're bringing it to life.
[122] That's the one.
[123] I know Patton's in that.
[124] Patent Hustle is in that, yes, playing himself essentially in the civil war, which is a good thing.
[125] Because he's so hilarious.
[126] But that's funny.
[127] Yeah.
[128] Yeah.
[129] That's good.
[130] I think a midpoint recommendation is kind of very reflective of the times we live in.
[131] Don't you?
[132] Because we don't trust anything anymore?
[133] Yeah.
[134] And because like, It's so hard to only look at one thing.
[135] So you have to be absolutely unbelievable in a very perfectly for me way to keep my eyes off of the phone while I'm watching TV.
[136] It's that kind of thing.
[137] Right.
[138] I heard something that was like they now dumb down TV shows so that for the people who are on their phones while they're watching so they can follow along.
[139] Like it can't be that complicated now because it's like you're people, it's for like people on multiple screens or something like that at the same time.
[140] I get that theory, although do you think they did that with like succession?
[141] I don't.
[142] Like I think maybe some people are doing that.
[143] But it's like people who are actually good at making TV are like, that's okay.
[144] We'll lose those people.
[145] Yeah.
[146] That's fine.
[147] I mean, those are people that can say to the executives.
[148] No notes, please.
[149] No, we're not taking notes today from you.
[150] No notes.
[151] Or if you're in a relationship like me and you see.
[152] your spouse or your partner or whatever on their phone while we're watching something.
[153] And you go, what's wrong?
[154] Because you're like, get off your phone.
[155] We're supposed to be watching this together.
[156] Like you're not allowed to be on your phone when you're watching something together.
[157] It's like a forced shared experience that you have to stay in.
[158] I thought we were doing this.
[159] Otherwise, I'd go up and read by myself.
[160] You know, like, I'm here with you.
[161] We're fucking in this TV show together.
[162] I'm going to need you to like pay attention for both of us.
[163] Or he'll be like, do you want me to pause it?
[164] So you can text wherever you're texting and then get fucking back in there.
[165] But that is codependency.
[166] Well, I don't know, though, because I think that's, I think a lot of people go through that same thing because the fun of, like there's not, I think there's nothing more fun than when you are watching something with your significant other and you're both into it.
[167] I will never forget when we binged Battlestar Galactica literally for a weekend and like weren't sleeping and stuff.
[168] because we're like, just keep going, just keep watching.
[169] And it was the best.
[170] I love that.
[171] So we're all trying to get that Battlestar Galactic high back, I think.
[172] Yeah, get me to the point in a relationship where we're fucking watching series on a couch.
[173] Like that, for me, fuck dating for me. That's like peak relationship.
[174] Who is going to find the trick, like it's past dating apps, dating anything?
[175] Bring in the AI where you just get matched to share a couch with someone.
[176] Like you get a spooning, it's a spooning match.
[177] It's much harder.
[178] It's harder.
[179] I'm not saying this is going to be easy.
[180] Yeah.
[181] But when it gets done, that person that figures it out is going to make a billion dollars.
[182] You have to enjoy spooning.
[183] You have to like have this right temperature, body temperature that matches because if one person runs hot and they run cold, then it's like a mess, you know, that kind of thing.
[184] Oh, yep.
[185] And you have to like almost exactly the same kind of entertainment because if someone goes AWOL and just.
[186] is suddenly watching like whatever.
[187] I don't want to name something that people love, but.
[188] The me going, you can watch that on your own.
[189] That's what happens.
[190] You're, it's a any sports channel and you're like, okay, that's my, you're asking me to leave silently, so I will.
[191] Roadhouse, goodbye.
[192] The new roadhouse, not interested.
[193] I want to see it, though.
[194] I want to see.
[195] This watched it.
[196] Apparently Jake Gyllenhaal is cut.
[197] Yeah.
[198] And I don't know.
[199] It's not really roadhouse in his mind, something like that.
[200] Oh, he's doing something.
[201] else?
[202] I don't know.
[203] It's violent.
[204] I said, I'm going to go read.
[205] Enjoy that.
[206] Goodbye.
[207] I feel like Jake Jillen Hall's been very cut for a while and not really getting the credit that I think he maybe wants or deserves.
[208] But did you ever watch the movie Nightcrawler?
[209] Yes, because he's all, it's scary cut.
[210] You know what I mean?
[211] Yes.
[212] It's like intensely, it's aggressive.
[213] Why are you so cut?
[214] It's scaring people.
[215] You're sharp.
[216] You're too sharp.
[217] Sharp faced, sharp, chested, sharp, yes.
[218] And he's going to do something bad.
[219] It's aggressive.
[220] I don't know why.
[221] I like it.
[222] Something about it is you do.
[223] Bring it on.
[224] Yes.
[225] I'm not into it, not into it.
[226] Here's the thing you can imagine.
[227] This is a person that's going to get things taken care of.
[228] That's all.
[229] Why is that so bad to want that all the time?
[230] I guess, I guess.
[231] But they're also going to want to hike on the weekend, you know?
[232] Yeah, and like hit the gym with you.
[233] That's when I go read.
[234] That's true.
[235] You take what we call now a reading dip and just leave.
[236] This is where we practice being independent.
[237] Bye.
[238] No, I can't do it.
[239] I need to be near you all the time.
[240] What if something happens?
[241] All right.
[242] Well, we did that.
[243] Should we do it?
[244] Guys, if you're listening for the first time to any podcast, we just did a thing roughly 10 minutes longer than anyone normally does it.
[245] They get upset.
[246] We don't care.
[247] That's part of the thing.
[248] Welcome.
[249] If you didn't like how long that was, most of them are much shorter.
[250] Yeah.
[251] And you can skip it.
[252] You can go skip, skip, skip.
[253] Yeah.
[254] We won't be offended.
[255] No big deal.
[256] We want you to have agency over your own podcasting experience in whatever.
[257] way and however that means to you that's right that's right we're all about that agency over yourself can you fucking imagine can you imagine in this country with women having agency over their own fucking body uh the thought it's just too happy and exciting to even it's it's too 2006 yeah there and we also make it a little political and then we're done here we yeah yeah okay hey we have a podcast network it's called exactly right here are some highlights that's right we're going to start this off with a quick announcement.
[258] For those of you who listen on Apple Podcasts, they're now on Apple Podcasts releasing transcripts.
[259] So if you're using the latest iOS, you can tap on the quotation mark icon at the bottom of your player, and you can follow along with every word of your favorite podcast in transcript form.
[260] How awesome is that?
[261] That's so cool.
[262] And in podcast news, musician Nora Jones is Michelle and Jordan's guest on Adelting, the live show.
[263] It's not incredible.
[264] That's so cool.
[265] Speaking of live shows, I recently joined Raz Hernandez on her live show of Ghosted by Raz Hernandez.
[266] I was joined by the brilliant comedian Chris Fleming and also Oscar Montoya, who's a hilarious comedian actor, he was on The Minks.
[267] He plays the haunted doll the entire time and he was so funny that he deserves credit to because he was like another guest on the show, but on stage it was just a doll.
[268] I love it.
[269] Pretty hilarious.
[270] Then on I saw what you did.
[271] Millian Danielle bring us a vintage Christian Slater double feature of heathers from 1988, a classic and Untamed Heart from 1993.
[272] Oh my God, Christian Slater was so cute.
[273] He was a big deal.
[274] He was a very big deal.
[275] Also, the third episode of The Butterfly King is now available.
[276] So if you haven't started listening to our newest limited series, The Butterfly King, a World War II murder mystery, please go start now and you can listen all the way up to episode three and don't forget to follow Butterfly King on all of the social media and follow it of course on your podcast app so you don't miss an episode if you if this is your first podcast you have to follow the shows you're listening to so that you they come back in your machine and the Butterfly King is actually charting which is so freaking cool so thank you guys for doing that subscribe rate review that is like the coolest yes And lastly, in February, we told you the fuck you.
[277] I married joggers were back in stock, but you bought all of them.
[278] So they were sold out.
[279] Oh, I know.
[280] Hey.
[281] Well, this time, we restocked the store with plenty.
[282] So if you missed out, head to exactly right store .com and grab a pair now.
[283] And if you're single or your, if you don't want to talk about your status or whatever, there's other joggers for you too, where you can still say fuck you to people, but then talk about other parts of your life.
[284] Yeah.
[285] You'd contain multitudes.
[286] Yeah, you do.
[287] Karen, you know.
[288] know I'm all about vintage shopping.
[289] Absolutely.
[290] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.
[291] Exactly.
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[307] Goodbye.
[308] All right.
[309] I'm going to tell you a story now.
[310] Are you ready for this part to begin?
[311] Let's do it.
[312] Okay.
[313] Well, this, strangely enough, and this is how our researchers have story ideas, usually from us, sometimes found by our producers but they're months in advance so we have a whole system it's really beautiful so much better than the system we used to have which is I would write mine the day of or just not finish it so this research starts by saying that I found this story over on Twitter we'll call it Twitter and it was a tweet that was posted by at History in Memes on Twitter and basically it told the story of this event, and I had never heard of this event, and I was like, is this real?
[314] Could this be real?
[315] So I sent it to Marin, and she's like, it is in fact real life.
[316] I know about this.
[317] And so we decided to do this story.
[318] So today I'm going to tell you about a disaster that took place at the end of World War II in the heart of New York City and the resilient woman who miraculously survived it.
[319] So you may not know this, Georgia, but when they finish the Empire State Building in 1931, it is the world's tallest building.
[320] It had 102 floors of Art Deco grandeur standing in Midtown Manhattan at a record -breaking 1 ,250 feet.
[321] That doesn't sound high enough for me for how big that building is.
[322] Yeah.
[323] It is.
[324] Back then, it was, wow, would you look at that?
[325] It was, come on, that's more than three.
[326] Hey, say, would you look at that?
[327] That's more than three.
[328] So this architectural feat becomes New York City's newest source of pride.
[329] Here's a little quote I pulled directly from the Empire State Building Wikipedia page, which is a hoot if you want to go over there while Vince is watching something you don't want to watch.
[330] The building has been named one of the Seven Wonders of the Modern World by the American Society of Civil Engineers, and it was ranked first on the American Institute of Architects list of America's favorite architecture in 2007.
[331] So Empire State Building has been a hit from the day it was built all the way through.
[332] But on the day it was opened, a New York Fire Department captain at the time named Patrick Walsh has his concerns.
[333] Whoa.
[334] We have a friend of a friend of Patrick Walsh.
[335] Yeah.
[336] We know some Patrick Walsh's in our lives.
[337] So the Empire State Building's offices can hold up to 35 ,000 people.
[338] Wow.
[339] Which is a logistical nightmare in the event of an emergency situation.
[340] And because Pilots at that time and now are permitted to fly as low as 1 ,100 feet over New York City.
[341] Uh -oh.
[342] I see the math.
[343] The math doesn't add up.
[344] Are you bringing it all together?
[345] So the building's unprecedented height poses a new sort of threat to air traffic in the area.
[346] Yet, despite these concerns, the building passes the fire department's inspection, and it opens on May 1, 1931.
[347] Thousands of New Yorkers file into this building make themselves at home in their new specter.
[348] workplace, and among them is 20 -year -old elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver.
[349] She has taken a job for some extra cash, but by summertime, her fiance has returned home from the war, so just a few months on the job, Betty Lou puts in her notice.
[350] But as fate would have it, Betty Lou's last day at work is very nearly her last day alive.
[351] This is the story of the 1945 Empire State Building, plane crash.
[352] The main source is used in today's story are an article from history collection entitled which pretty much lays this story out for you kind of clearly.
[353] That's what I've stopped reading the titles of the articles that we use in our show notes.
[354] You know what I mean?
[355] Yeah, maybe I should leave that one out.
[356] Can we bleep that whole thing out, Alejandra?
[357] Yes.
[358] Entitled, beep.
[359] That mystery history collection article was written.
[360] by a writer named Patrick Lynch.
[361] Also, the Division 7 Training and Safety Newsletter for July of August 2020 talks about this from the website FDNY's Bravest .com.
[362] There's a bunch of pictures that they have on that website that are amazing.
[363] And the person that I think put those pictures together, I don't think he took them, I think he put them together, somebody named Michael Dick.
[364] Okay, the rest of the sources are in our show notes if you want to know more about this.
[365] So I take you now to Saturday, July 28th, 1945.
[366] It's Betty Oliver's last day as an elevator operator at the Empire State Building.
[367] World War II is inching toward its final moments overseas, and there's a celebratory feeling in and around basically the entire country.
[368] But I bet you kind of being in and around Manhattan was pretty unbelievable.
[369] Totally.
[370] Although on this day, you wouldn't actually be thinking about anything celebratory.
[371] it's dreary and it's humid outside, and there's a heavy fog that gives the city a quiet, kind of sleepy feeling.
[372] But despite the weather and the fact that it's the weekend, for many, it's business as usual that day.
[373] That's the case for 27 -year -old lieutenant colonel William Smith Jr. He's an experienced pilot.
[374] He's flown many combat missions during the war in both France and Germany.
[375] Today his assignment is stateside.
[376] He will be flying a converted North American B -25 Mitchell Bomber nicknamed Old John Feather Merchant the fucking longest worst nickname of all time is that old John feather merchant that's elitism in our military that's the rich guys getting to fly the planes in my opinion or something else that I just don't know about so basically the old John Feather merchant was used to transfer military VIPs from an Army airfield in Massachusetts down to the Newark Airport in good old New Jersey.
[377] Dirty Jurs.
[378] This is a medium -sized bomber plane with two propeller engines.
[379] It has all of its guns removed, obviously, and it weighs around 12 tons.
[380] So it's like an old -timey plane like you'd see in World War II?
[381] Yeah, I think it's like, you know those ones that can turn on their back?
[382] Yeah.
[383] And they pivot around because there's two things in the front.
[384] It's like, it's one of those.
[385] Okay.
[386] So on board is 31 -year -old staff sergeant Christer Dmitrovich.
[387] He's an experienced pilot in his own right.
[388] He is actually the guy who converted this specific aircraft from a warplane to one used in civilian airspace.
[389] And although Sergeant Dmitrovich is not the co -pilot on today's flight, he is sitting in the co -pilot seat.
[390] Also on the flight is 19 -year -old Albert Perna.
[391] He is an aviation machinist's mate for the Navy.
[392] He recently lost his brother Anthony in the war, so he is catching this flight home.
[393] to see his bereaved parents who live in Brooklyn.
[394] Albert isn't actually supposed to be on this flight.
[395] He asked to hop on just before takeoff.
[396] And Lieutenant Colonel Smith, who, of course, didn't want any more passengers, felt sorry for Albert understood that he needed to be with his family and let him on board.
[397] Damn it.
[398] Then on the return trip to Massachusetts, they're planning to pick up one Colonel Harris -Rogner who will join them from Newark.
[399] So at 8 .52 a .m., with Lieutenant Colonel Smith at the House, Helm, Flight 0577 takes off from Bedford, Massachusetts, heading to Newark, New Jersey.
[400] So up and down the East Coast, now there's heavy cloud coverage, there's fog, and there's rain.
[401] But even though the weather's bad, Smith is flying by what are called visual flight rules.
[402] He's relying on his own eyesight and visual cues like buildings, the placement of the sun, specific terrain, to navigate the plane.
[403] Usually in that low of visibility, a pilot would fly by instrument, which means they're relying on the equipment in the flight deck like GPS or altimeters.
[404] But according to a write -up by the FDNY, this is not an option because Lieutenant Smith's superiors think that the instruments will be bombarded with civilian air traffic correspondence once they get close to Manhattan.
[405] So they're basically saying, don't do any of that and keep it all clear and just do it by sight.
[406] Which is, you know, strange, in a bunch of fog and rain.
[407] Yeah, yeah.
[408] So as Lieutenant Colonel Smith flies over Long Island, he starts losing visibility, but he presses on until he reaches LaGuardia airspace in Queens.
[409] But the scene at LaGuardia is kind of chaotic.
[410] It's very crowded, and Smith's flight isn't actually scheduled to land there.
[411] And it so happens that another radio plane is buzzing around in the airspace, and it's lost contact with the controllers.
[412] So understandably, the LaGuardia flight controllers aren't happy about having to coordinate with this unexpected flight 0577.
[413] So they assigned Lieutenant Colonel Smith a holding pattern over the Bronx, and after some time passes, they give him the green light to head into Newark.
[414] But he's given a warning, because of all the fog, the top of the Empire State Building is not currently visible.
[415] Oh, dear.
[416] So it is not totally clear what happens next, But most onlookers think that Smith, as he was flying from LaGuardia toward Newark, he gets confused about where he is.
[417] Because the plan was to cut across Manhattan, then head south when he passes over the Hudson River into New Jersey.
[418] But according to one PBS correspondent, Smith isn't familiar with the geography of New York City.
[419] He seems to mistake the East River, which is east of Manhattan, for the Hudson River, which is west of Manhattan.
[420] So basically he didn't realize there were two bodies of water on either side of the island.
[421] Oh, dear.
[422] You think you'd know that.
[423] Yeah.
[424] You're flying.
[425] I mean, or that's just, I think that's a theory, though, because no one really knows what happened.
[426] Yeah.
[427] So that causes him to turn the plane south before he cuts across.
[428] So then either to get underneath the fog or because he thinks it's time to descend into Newark's airport's airspace, Lieutenant Colonel Smith drops down to an elevation of around 650 feet.
[429] But then once they get underneath the fog, he suddenly realizes his miscalculation.
[430] He can see that he is flying a B -25 bomber at 250 miles an hour right down the heart of Manhattan.
[431] So according to FDNY's Bravest, the website, they say, quote, Lieutenant Colonel Smith narrowly missed the Grand Central Office building near Park Avenue at the 22nd floor.
[432] Flight 057Banked and narrowly missed the building and then narrowly missed 500 Fifth Avenue.
[433] The B -25 Mitchell Bomber was flying so close to the buildings that occupants in the buildings surrounding the plane could see the faces of the people in the cockpit.
[434] The loud roar and the vibration shook items off of shelves and tables.
[435] Holy shit.
[436] Shit, how terrifying.
[437] Yeah.
[438] So they were in it.
[439] Suddenly in it.
[440] Suddenly in it.
[441] Oh, my God.
[442] Lieutenant Colonel Smith tries his best to retract the landing gear and steer the aircraft upwards, but as old John Feather Merchant sharply ascends back upwards toward the clouds, an unmistakable sight appears ahead rushing toward them fast, the Empire State Building.
[443] Lieutenant Colonel Smith tries to clear the building as he steers Old John Feather Merchant sharply toward the sky, but it is too late.
[444] At 9 .40 a .m., the old war plane crashes into the 79th floor of the Empire State Building.
[445] Holy shit.
[446] Have you ever heard of this disaster?
[447] I've seen photos of it.
[448] Have you?
[449] Okay.
[450] Sorry, yes.
[451] I never had.
[452] I was like...
[453] It's crazy.
[454] I mean, it's not a story that's told very often.
[455] I just feel like if I lived in New York City, I would tell everybody the second I saw or met them.
[456] Yeah.
[457] Like, did you know this?
[458] You point up and be like, see that building?
[459] Okay, so because the plane is loaded with around 800 gallons of fuel, a huge fireball erupts on impact reaching nearly 100 feet high.
[460] Windows explode, including a few all the way up on the observation deck, which is 30 floors up.
[461] Smoke envelops the entire top of the building as it rocks back and forth like it's being hit with extreme winds.
[462] If there's one bright spot in this story is that it is a Saturday.
[463] So fewer people than normal are inside of the Empire State building on this day, but it is not a quiet morning.
[464] There are office workers.
[465] There's a handful of elevator operators.
[466] And even though it's foggy outside, there's multiple people on the observation deck, including a U .S. Army lieutenant named Alan Aman, who is there with his wife.
[467] He is one of the first people to see the plane emerge from the clouds.
[468] Can you imagine?
[469] Oh, my God, the terror.
[470] You're 102 stories in the air And all of a sudden, I'm sure they heard it first But then you see - He probably thought he was having like a flashback or something If he was in the fucking war Yeah, that's right So he sees this plane He immediately throws his wife to the ground And like jumps on top of her trying to protect her And from the ground They feel the impact of course And then they feel the heat from the explosion And then they feel the building sway beneath them And they described it as like a tree in a tropical storm kind of feeling like crazy but somehow they're kept safe up on the observation deck so it doesn't like the explosion doesn't just go upward and take off the top of the building or anything yeah lieutenant colonel william smith junior sergeant demitrovitch and albert perna die instantly on the 79th floor 18 people are working at the offices of catholic war relief services, and 10 of them are killed.
[471] Whoa.
[472] One man is actually shot out of the building and lands on a sort of overhang a few four floors below and dies on impact.
[473] Oh, my God.
[474] Which must have been just shocking.
[475] But those who aren't killed are, of course, absolutely panic.
[476] The scene is horrifying.
[477] There's people who are injured, who are burned.
[478] They're desperately trying to find the safest route down to the ground level.
[479] As they do, debris from the plane blasts.
[480] through the opposite exterior wall of the floor it crashed into the 79th floor.
[481] So basically, it's obviously big enough where it took a second it hit and then it all had to push through and came out the other side and crashes down onto 33rd Street and onto the nearby buildings.
[482] Okay, yeah, the people on the ground, I'm like, what's happening to them?
[483] Oh, yeah.
[484] Hopefully they're running.
[485] Yeah.
[486] Horrifically, the plane's nose an engine continue moving throughout the floor.
[487] So pieces of the nose smashed through a nearby elevator bank and a reception area, killing more people, throwing several elevator operators out of their elevators.
[488] And there's Betty Lou Oliver in her elevator.
[489] She is thrown from her post on the 80th floor.
[490] So she's above it.
[491] She's the floor above.
[492] And this violent action breaks her back, her neck, and her pelvis, and she's burnt in the floor.
[493] Oh, my God.
[494] But she actually survives.
[495] The blast is so loud that several nearby fire stations dispatch to the Empire State Building before alarms even come in for them to do so.
[496] They're like, yep, we got, we got to go.
[497] So at least two fires are raging simultaneously, one on the 78th and 79th floors, and then another, so that's just one big fire.
[498] And then another in the Astoria building next door on the 33rd Street side where the plane blasted through.
[499] So the Astoria Building caught on fire.
[500] And inside the Empire State Building, firefighters use the few operational service elevators they can to get up to the 67th floor.
[501] That's as high as they can go.
[502] So from there, they have to get off the elevator, take all their gear, and walk up 11 floors to get to where the fire is on the 78th floor.
[503] As they put that out, dozens of doctors, nurses, and EMTs begin to filter in and rescue as many people as they can.
[504] So people just started going up there.
[505] Yeah.
[506] Which is so New York City.
[507] So beautiful New York City.
[508] I love that place.
[509] So people moving around and going like, you get out of the way.
[510] Are you okay?
[511] Are you okay?
[512] I heard a lady say that on the street one time this girl dropped her mirror.
[513] She clearly just bought this huge mirror at Home Goods.
[514] And it's a super busy, we're at 7th Avenue walking up like a human highway.
[515] And she drops this mirror.
[516] And everybody is just like and like backs up and freezes and then she looks around and everyone goes oh my god are you okay and this old lady busts through the crowd and then like throws her arm forward pointing at the girl and goes no are you okay oh my god i want that woman around in an emergency right that's like she's actually going to get shit taken care of yeah so let's pretend that she also went up to the 78th floor okay So the first responders are able to find Betty Oliver among the rubble.
[517] They put her on a stretcher.
[518] They're like, if she's going to survive all of this, I mean, she's horribly, horribly harmed.
[519] She has to get to the hospital immediately.
[520] Yeah.
[521] They take her down to the 75th floor and take her on the one elevator that they can still use, elevator six, and they load her up onto it.
[522] What they don't realize is that there's a third fire raging.
[523] inside of the building in the subseller, in the Empire State building.
[524] So one of the plane's engines went into an elevator shaft and fell downward and spread flames as it went.
[525] What?
[526] That's like a movie.
[527] Yes.
[528] So in the process, the cables connecting some of the elevator cars to the shaft are frayed.
[529] And as soon as EMTs slide Betty's stretcher onto the elevator, the cable snap and an already badly wounded Betty plummets a staggering 75 floors down to the bottom of the Empire State Building.
[530] It is a 1 ,000 foot drop.
[531] Holy shit.
[532] Horrifying.
[533] So meanwhile, down at street level, there's a 17 -year -old pharmacist mate from the Coast Guard named Donald Maloney.
[534] And he runs into a Walgreens, which is like, this is 1945.
[535] And Walgreens were such a part of my life.
[536] when I lived in New York City.
[537] And the idea that it's like, oh, yeah, they've always been.
[538] That is like third star of the show is Walgreens in Manhattan.
[539] Okay, so he's, Donald is visiting New York.
[540] He planned actually on going up to the Empire State Building observation deck that morning.
[541] He's changing his plan now.
[542] He goes into triage mode.
[543] He runs into the pharmacy.
[544] He has them give him morphine, syringes, needles, first aid kits, bandages, rubbing alcohol, any other supplies that he can hold and he runs into the Empire State Building and just tries to, his plan is he's just going to go wherever anybody needs him and thinking that he's going to maybe take an elevator and go up.
[545] But now none of the elevators are operational.
[546] But then Donald notices a downed elevator, elevator six, and he convinces a team of firefighters to come with him and help him check it out.
[547] So he was just kind of like a do -gooder from the street who, it was like luckily all of these mills, military men who had all this training and women, I'm sure, were just like they're on hand.
[548] Yeah.
[549] And not scared of a horrifying thing because they've just been living through horrifying things.
[550] I mean, the idea of running into a disaster is so heroic.
[551] And, like, it's how I'd hope I would react in a situation.
[552] I know.
[553] I know.
[554] I know I wouldn't.
[555] Okay.
[556] So the impact from the 75 -floor drop has jammed the elevator door.
[557] So the fireman cut a hole in the side of the elevator to try to access the car.
[558] And when they do, they find Betty trapped under fallen debris.
[559] And so now on top of all of her other horrible injuries, she's got two broken legs.
[560] But by some miracle, she is alive.
[561] So Maloney is the only one small enough who can fit through the opening that they cut.
[562] So he climbs inside the elevator and helps get Betty out.
[563] Whoa.
[564] And because of her injuries and because of how small the opening was that they cut in the elevator, it takes them an hour to get her out of this elevator car.
[565] No. Yeah.
[566] And then she's rushed in an ambulance to the hospital.
[567] So 24 people are hurt in the crash of flight, 0577, but the injuries Betty sustains are by far the worst of anyone.
[568] Oh, my God.
[569] But in just eight months' time, she makes a full recovery.
[570] Whoa.
[571] Of course, our whole flight crew that we said already and 11 other people die inside the Empire State Building that day, bringing the death toll to 14.
[572] And along with 14 lives lost, about a million dollars in damage is done to the building, which would be the equivalent of...
[573] A million dollars in 1945 is 6 .8 million.
[574] 17 million.
[575] Whoa.
[576] I know.
[577] I thought I was going too high.
[578] You have to go high, high.
[579] But on Monday, July 30th, 1945, less than 48 hours after the crash, most of the offices in the building are open for business again.
[580] What?
[581] No, thank you.
[582] I'll work from home.
[583] Did they have that back then?
[584] I'll work from home.
[585] They're like, nope.
[586] That was back when they were really against work from home.
[587] It takes them three months for all of the repairs to be completed.
[588] And all that remains of the crash afterwards is a piece of charred limestone, which has been kept in memory of the lives lost in the disaster.
[589] So in very Manhattan business style, they were like, okay, and now we fix it, and now we keep going.
[590] Yeah.
[591] One of the reasons most of us do not know about this shocking disaster is because one week after it, the U .S. bombs Hiroshima, bringing World War II to.
[592] to an end.
[593] That makes sense.
[594] Yeah.
[595] As for the miracle of Betty Lou Oliver's survival, inspection of elevator six's crash site leads experts to believe that two things helped protect her from meeting an untimely end in that elevator.
[596] First of all, I have had so many dreams of a snapped elevator cable and just like falling in an elevator.
[597] Have you ever had that dream?
[598] No, but it's a nightmare.
[599] Yeah.
[600] It's such a horrible idea.
[601] It's such a scary.
[602] It's such a scary, scary thing.
[603] But here's the upside to think about it.
[604] The snapped elevator cable fell and then coiled at the bottom of the elevator shaft.
[605] So it actually ended up providing a little bit of a cushion.
[606] Okay.
[607] That makes sense.
[608] Yeah.
[609] Then the rapid drop of the elevator in a space as tightly enclosed as the elevator shaft created a pillar of compressed air that actually slowed the elevators drop just enough to prevent total devastation.
[610] So it wasn't the free fall that you would think it would be.
[611] Some kind of high hydraulic thing happened.
[612] Some sort of science happened that we don't need to worry about.
[613] Hey, engineers, let us know what that's called.
[614] Hey, engineers, can you just make it so that when that happens in the future, that pillar of air is stronger than the force of gravity?
[615] And it just gets sent back up to the floor it needs to go to.
[616] It's a big request.
[617] We'll work on it later after the fascists are gone.
[618] While it takes Betty eight months to make a full recovery, she returns to the Empire State Building just five months later on a pair of crutches.
[619] Why, honey, no. Because she wants to ride the elevator to the top of the building.
[620] That's right.
[621] Betty Oliver gets into an elevator and goes to the top.
[622] Bad luck Betty is brave, it turns out.
[623] She is like, I will make my own luck.
[624] Thank you.
[625] I will take this whole story back.
[626] Also, I remember the elevator ride in the Empire State Building.
[627] It's a pretty smallish elevator.
[628] Feels small like many things do in New York City.
[629] And I started getting a little panicky in that elevator.
[630] So the idea that that woman went through what she went through and was like, I'm doing it anyway, is so badass.
[631] Like, I love her so much for that.
[632] Like, I can't.
[633] She's like, I can't be afraid of this my whole life.
[634] I'm going to do it again.
[635] She must have, right?
[636] because that would be so, so scary.
[637] I know, I know.
[638] Amazing, amazing.
[639] The good news is Betty Oliver, she heals completely.
[640] She moves to Fort Smith, Arizona with her husband.
[641] She has three kids.
[642] She has seven grandkids.
[643] She has a healthy, fulfilling life for the next 54 years.
[644] And she passes away on November 24, 1999, at the age of 74.
[645] and to this day, she is still in the Guinness Book of World Records for tallest elevator crash survival.
[646] Wow.
[647] And that is the story of the 1945 Empire State Building plane crash.
[648] Damn.
[649] Betty.
[650] That's great.
[651] I didn't know the story.
[652] I'd seen the photo's a vague description, but that is terrifying.
[653] Horrifying.
[654] Terrifying.
[655] Horrifying.
[656] She broke her back, her hip, her both legs.
[657] Her pelvis.
[658] Her pelvis.
[659] Man, did anyone else survive in the elevator?
[660] Do you know?
[661] They put her stretcher on and the elevator broke.
[662] She was alone.
[663] Oh, I didn't know that.
[664] I thought she was like with other people.
[665] Oh, what a bummer.
[666] Isn't that crazy?
[667] Yeah.
[668] Oh, man. Fuck that.
[669] Fuck that.
[670] Yes, for sure.
[671] For sure.
[672] Yeah, her original horrible injuries were from the explosion.
[673] Yeah.
[674] So, and then it's like, okay, we got you.
[675] We're going to get you to the hospital.
[676] She's like, finally, I'm on a stretcher.
[677] We're going.
[678] Let's do this.
[679] Let's get this going.
[680] And bye.
[681] Oh, my God.
[682] Five months later, she's like, hi.
[683] I'm on backb bitches.
[684] I'm back bitches for real.
[685] Her and the moth man walk in.
[686] Oh, falling alone.
[687] Her shitty job that she didn't even want to be at anymore.
[688] Her last day.
[689] She's about to.
[690] That's like a, from lethal weapon where it's, Like, I'm about to retire, but here's one more call.
[691] Oh, my God.
[692] Also, I was just saying to Alejandra, I was like, I'm doing this story, but I'm like, what's coming up next if that's the first story?
[693] Right.
[694] Well, what's interesting about my story, so you don't have to use too much brainpower and imagination, we're staying in Manhattan.
[695] Yes.
[696] I love it there.
[697] We're going to stay there.
[698] We're going to go to when the Empire State Building was being built in the 30s.
[699] So, like, don't even, like, don't worry about it.
[700] it.
[701] Don't even get up from the couch right now.
[702] Close your eyes.
[703] Now I wouldn't let you close your eyes and listen to this podcast.
[704] Yeah.
[705] This is great.
[706] And you can just tell we have great producers and everything on the podcast because these stories go together.
[707] Yes.
[708] Nice.
[709] So today I'm covering a story about an attorney who led a massive prostitution racketeering investigation.
[710] And I'm going to be using the word prostitution as it is in the legal sense a few times in the story.
[711] All right.
[712] To take down mafioso kingpin, everyone's favorite, Charles Lucky Luciano.
[713] Oh, shit.
[714] In the 1930s.
[715] By showing compassion to the city's sex worker community, this attorney is able to set herself, yes, herself, apart from her colleagues as a person these women could trust enough to talk to openly.
[716] At the same time, she fended off corrupt police to build her case against the notorious mobster, and she did it all as one of New York's first female African -American lawyers.
[717] Whoa.
[718] This is the story of New York assistant district attorney Eunice Carter.
[719] Eunice.
[720] Eunice, great name.
[721] This is one of those stories where like, why don't we have like a national holiday every year for this woman?
[722] She's incredible.
[723] We should talk about her more.
[724] What a badass.
[725] Here we go.
[726] The main sources used in today's story include an essay from the Mob Museum website with no author listed.
[727] And an article on Medium provided by the National.
[728] District Attorney's Association, all other sources are listed in the show notes.
[729] And there's a book I'm going to tell you to read at the end.
[730] So get your pencils ready.
[731] Do people use pencils anymore?
[732] I mean, you know me and my number two, Dixon, Dikson, Ticconderoga.
[733] That's right.
[734] And I have a vintage pencil sharpener on my wall, but I don't use it.
[735] It just looks cool.
[736] Did you mount it?
[737] Mm -hmm.
[738] Nice.
[739] I'm going to send you some unsharpened pencils.
[740] Okay.
[741] So the first one to tell you about Eunice Carter.
[742] She's born.
[743] in Atlanta, Georgia on July 16th, 1899.
[744] She comes from a prominent, accomplished black family.
[745] Before the Civil War, her paternal grandfather, Stanton, convinced his plantation owner to let him buy his own freedom.
[746] He managed to purchase his brother, Ben's Freedom from a plantation in Mississippi, and the two fled to Chatham, Ontario, Canada, where Stanton helped abolitionist John Brown organize the 1859 slave revolt on Harper's Ferry.
[747] So this is all manhunt time.
[748] Stanton's son, Eunice's father, William Alpheus Hunton, got a college education while living in Canada and went on to found the black division of the YMCA.
[749] Eunice's mother, Addy Waits -Hunton, is impressive in her own right, having been the first black graduate at Spencerian College of Commerce in Philadelphia.
[750] So, like, I'm lazy.
[751] That's it.
[752] Look, compare and despair.
[753] We can't be looking at people that we are reading stories about and be like I should be like them.
[754] It's not over for us yet.
[755] That's true.
[756] Her mother works as a teacher, a social worker, and even sales to France to serve in World War I in 1918 as one of just three black women in an all -black American unit.
[757] Wow.
[758] I wonder if Bessie Coleman was over there with her.
[759] Oh, my God.
[760] Being the daughter of two prominent college -educated black parents in the early 1900s, of course, puts Eunice in a truly unique.
[761] elite family.
[762] Even as they thrive, the family is still no stranger to racism and are vocal against bigotry in both their work lives and their personal lives.
[763] But when the Atlanta race massacre up September 1906 leaves dozens of innocent black people injured or dead, the Hutton family decides to leave Atlanta and move up north to Brooklyn, New York.
[764] Eunice is a product of her tough ancestry, and so she never lets the threat of hate get in her way.
[765] excels in school and earns two degrees from Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts.
[766] She earns the two degrees at the same time.
[767] So she's just like, you know what, I'm here.
[768] I might as well make the most of it.
[769] So she earns a bachelor's and a master's of social work in 1921 at the same time.
[770] Wow.
[771] I literally couldn't go to class and half of my classes were theater classes.
[772] And I couldn't bother.
[773] Ooh.
[774] Uh -huh.
[775] Don't compare.
[776] Nope.
[777] Comparing despair.
[778] We're not Eunice.
[779] We're not.
[780] Her husband Lyle Carter, Eunice and Lyle, can you even?
[781] Like, that's the best.
[782] The best grandparents' name ever.
[783] So who she marries in 1924, he's no slouch either.
[784] He's one of the most prominent dentists in New York working in Harlem.
[785] They have a son together named Lyle Carter Jr. in November of 1925.
[786] Okay, so here we are.
[787] Eunice follows in her mother's footsteps and serves as a social worker.
[788] in New York and New Jersey for 11 years.
[789] She also serves alongside her mother in the 1927 Pan -African Congress, one of a series of eight meetings where black leaders and thinkers joined together for the cause of peace and decolonization in Africa and the West Indies.
[790] And as rewarding as the Pan -African Congress experience is for Eunice, she doesn't find social work that stimulating.
[791] She thought it would be a lot more interesting.
[792] So she starts taking night classes at Fordham, Lod.
[793] law school.
[794] She's the first African -American woman to graduate from Fordham, and she does it in just two years graduating in 1932.
[795] Like, come on.
[796] Graduating from law school in two years?
[797] While still working full -time as a supervisor in the Harlem Division of the Emergency Unemployment Relief Committee.
[798] Wow.
[799] Yeah.
[800] Incredible.
[801] Yeah.
[802] She passes the New York bar exam, of course she does, in 1933 and immediately starts making a name for herself in both legal and political circles.
[803] She's hand -selected to join what's called the National Council of Negro Women, which is a nonprofit that helps improve the lives of African -American women.
[804] She's chosen by the organization's founder, Mary McLeod Bethune.
[805] But it's the recognition she gets from New York Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia.
[806] What's up?
[807] Hey.
[808] And the state special prosecutor, Thomas E. Dewey that will come to define her career as she's named New York's first black female assistant district attorney in 1935.
[809] Wow.
[810] I know.
[811] Great.
[812] Like fucking, that's historic.
[813] That's historic.
[814] It's huge and it's 30 years before people started fighting for their civil rights.
[815] Right.
[816] Right.
[817] Just like an accomplishment in an era and a time where the racism was just like, coming from every direction, a given, like, ugh, God.
[818] So with organized crime on the rise, special prosecutor Dewey has been instructed to build a team of lawyers to try and dismantle these crime syndicates.
[819] So organized crime is like a big fucking deal at the time.
[820] Prohibition had just ended in 1933, but at that point, I mean, the mobsters had taken over everything, you know, in the city.
[821] Yeah.
[822] And so Dewey wants to dismantle the crime syndicates.
[823] 20 lawyers are picked for this job, a team nicknamed the 20 against the underworld.
[824] And all of them, save for Eunice, are white men.
[825] Wow.
[826] Yeah.
[827] Although I feel like if she was a lawyer, that probably was how everything was anyway for her.
[828] Yeah, totally.
[829] She's like, yep, it's just another day.
[830] Yeah, this is what I expected.
[831] So as impressive as Eunice is, her brilliance, talent, and hard work.
[832] are still undervalued because she's a black woman, of course.
[833] So while the rest of her colleagues are focused on dismantling organized crime syndicates, Eunice is left fielding general complaints from New York residents about organized crime issues.
[834] So it's thankless work, but Eunice rolls up her sleeves and handedly does her job.
[835] Among the cheap complaints she hears from citizens is about the uptick and the number of sex workers around the city.
[836] They seem to be present on almost every street corner.
[837] there's tons of brothels.
[838] And because sex work carried even more stigma at this time than it does now, the outcry on supposed, quote, moral grounds is too much for Eunice to ignore.
[839] So she has to go after it.
[840] So she unfortunately prosecutes many women for the crime of prostitution.
[841] And for a while, these trials make up the bulk of her caseload.
[842] But in interviewing and cross -examining dozens of sex workers, as well as other witnesses for her cases, Eunice quickly realizes something no one else sees.
[843] These women aren't working independently.
[844] They're being trafficked.
[845] And the man at the top of the trafficking scheme is none other than mob boss, Charles Lucky Luciano.
[846] So she's like in it.
[847] Still in the fucking mob scene.
[848] Yeah.
[849] So let's talk about Charles Lucky Luciano for a minute.
[850] After immigrating from Sicily to the Lowery site of Manhattan at eight years old in 1906, Charles Lucky Luciano quickly found gambled.
[851] and learn that he could make more money for his family on the streets than he could by any legal means.
[852] At just 14 years old, he drops out of school and starts his own gang.
[853] Yeah.
[854] Hey, you know what I'm going to do?
[855] He's an entrepreneur.
[856] And his gang gets looped in with the infamous Five Points Gang, which is comprised mostly of Irish American immigrants.
[857] And so Luciano and his gang make their money by charging local Jewish kids 10 cents per week for protection from the other Irish and Italian things.
[858] She's like, it's like, it's just mind -boggling.
[859] It's always about oppressing the lesser, the people who have less, the people who are socially seen as less.
[860] Right.
[861] Making a dime off of some oppression is the name of the game in this country.
[862] That's right.
[863] By 1920 at the age of 22, Luciano is recruited as a gunman and bootleggar by the Genovesi family, which is, of course, one of the biggest Italian mobs in New York.
[864] You know, Karen, you love...
[865] I love to talk about the Genovese crime family.
[866] Mm -hmm.
[867] And he's recruited by their leader at the time, Joe Masaria.
[868] So when another one of Maseria's recruits leaves to work for another crime family, I'm going to say this name wrong, the Castile Marseille.
[869] Castile Marisse.
[870] There you go.
[871] Castile Maris.
[872] Yeah, you had to get your hand way up in the air.
[873] I really did it.
[874] Castelomarese clan.
[875] Masaria has Luciano arrange the revenge kill.
[876] So this triggers a mafia war that lasts from February 1930 through April 1931 and the war leaves several mob bosses dead, which gives the now 33 -year -old Luciano the opportunity he needs to take over as what's called the boss of bosses in New York's Organized Crime Network.
[877] Hey, hey, it's me, the boss of bosses.
[878] That was from my one -woman show.
[879] Lucky Luciano.
[880] He's finally home.
[881] Mama, I'm coming home.
[882] Luciano uses newfound power to establish a central governing body that all American crime families must answer to, which he calls the commission in 1931.
[883] So this really is like the height of the mafia takeover.
[884] They take over every facet of businesses, you know, that they can, and essentially drug running and prostitution and what other ones, I don't know.
[885] Being rude on the street, spitting.
[886] Spitting, yeah.
[887] Spitting, littering.
[888] As the head of the commission, he sets up streamlined operations for crimes ranging from, oh, here it is, drug dealing to illegal gambling.
[889] Forget about that one.
[890] Oh, yeah, gambling.
[891] To loan sharking, there's another good one, extortion, that's another one, and much more.
[892] Today he's considered the father of modern American organized crime.
[893] Yeah.
[894] So, like, he kind of took it to the next level, you know?
[895] Yeah, well, he was so organized that lucky.
[896] He was.
[897] And he was lucky.
[898] And he was so lucky.
[899] And he was just fun.
[900] Yeah.
[901] Everyone loved lucky.
[902] Everyone loved him and was not scared of him at all.
[903] So between 1960 to 1936, Luciano is arrested a total of 25 times for various charges, including insult.
[904] Insult?
[905] Nope, not insult.
[906] No. Assault.
[907] That other one.
[908] Yeah.
[909] blackmail robbery but none of them ever sick he always walks free but thanks to the diligent work and keen observations of assistant district attorney eunice carter that's all about to change okay so as unis works the small -time prostitution cases that have been shoved on to her you know like without a second thought she's already thinking beyond you know yeah and she notices some similarities between the defendants first their defenses all seem to be the same even if the cases are unrelated.
[910] She thinks it's as if these women, whether they know each other or not, have been coached by the same person on what to say.
[911] Second, many of the sex workers arrested in brothels, raids or on street corners have the same lawyer.
[912] And whenever this lawyer is involved, none of their charges seem to stick and they're released quickly.
[913] So the pimps, or as they're called bookers, they use the same lawyer as well.
[914] And they too seem to always evade serving any jail time.
[915] So she's like putting it together.
[916] And third, many of these sex workers use the same bondsmen for their prompt releases.
[917] So it's like kind of obvious to her.
[918] But the most remarkable thing Eunice does is something no one else was willing to do or even thought about doing.
[919] She talks to the sex workers like their people.
[920] Huh.
[921] Interesting.
[922] Imagine that.
[923] Where everyone else looks down on these women as discardable sinners, Eunice listens intently to their stories about being forced and, to sex work and needing to pay their mobster bosses 50 % of their earnings if they want to be quote protected.
[924] She sympathizes with their struggles and she earns their trust.
[925] And as the women divulge more information regarding who they work for, the easier it is for Eunice to put together a clear picture of what has really been going on.
[926] These aren't just women trying to earn a buck.
[927] This is a prostitution racket run amok.
[928] There's enough evidence to warrant a raid on dozens of brothels across Manhattan, Brooklyn, thanks to Eunice.
[929] But before they execute the warrant, Eunice is like, hold on a second.
[930] Here's one other problem that we face.
[931] That is that many of the vice cops who are the cops who typically handle crime related to sex work, they've been corrupted and paid off by the mobsters.
[932] Huh.
[933] So she's like, you can't trust those guys.
[934] Don't send those guys in.
[935] Like she fucking basically plans the whole outing.
[936] Probably because she always had to be.
[937] is always 10 steps ahead.
[938] Right.
[939] So it just benefits her because she's super smart, but she's also a black woman in a white man's world and being like, all right, well, I have to think this through about 16 different ways.
[940] So here we go.
[941] Watch this.
[942] It's not enough to be good like everyone else is.
[943] You have to be extraordinary.
[944] Yeah.
[945] So Dewey Heeds Eunice's advice, which is rad.
[946] And on February 2nd, 1936, he has 160 police officers outside of the Vice Squad.
[947] conduct raids on somewhere between 80 to 200 brothels.
[948] The numbers are conflicting.
[949] That's still a lot of brothels.
[950] This leads to the arrest of more than 100 sex workers and madams.
[951] Unfortunately, these women have all been coached so well by their bookers and bosses that most of them refuse to talk.
[952] Like, the point is to arrest them to get after the higher -ups, you know.
[953] But Eunice, having earned the trust of many of these women already, manages to get three of them to talk more openly on the record.
[954] by mid -March of 1936.
[955] And so these three women all point to the Italian mafia as the ones being responsible for the prostitution racket, and they all name Luciano as the head of operations.
[956] But even more importantly, because of Eunice, they all agree to testify against Luciano in court.
[957] I mean, that really is, she must have been so good, because how scary.
[958] It's like, would you like to testify against essentially the devil?
[959] The head of the devil?
[960] The Sicilian devil that lives in the Bronx or wherever you said, God.
[961] Yeah, who knows who you are?
[962] Oh, my God, seriously.
[963] So all that Eunice Dewey and the prosecution team need now is Luciano in custody.
[964] But essentially, in late March of 1936, just days after Eunice secures her critical witness testimonies, Luciano gets tipped off about his impending arrest.
[965] He flees to Hot Springs, Arkansas.
[966] Oh.
[967] Have you been there?
[968] No, is that the place where during the pandemic, all those people went and got into that pool there was like a picture going around of like i'm almost positive oh my god but i could be i'm so sorry arkansas if i'm if i'm wrong but i think that was like no we're doing it we don't care we're hanging out in the pool which is gross enough when there's not a fucking pandemic going on so he stays successfully hidden for about a week but then and this is where i think he needs to stop going by the moniker lucky because it's like not true okay because Because a New York detective with no relation to the case is in hot springs working a case of his own.
[969] And he sees Luciano and just like hanging out.
[970] Just by chance.
[971] Yeah, just by chance.
[972] So he notifies Dewey.
[973] They issue a criminal warrant.
[974] And on April 3rd, 1936, Arkansas police find an arrest, Charles.
[975] Not so lucky Luciano.
[976] And he's extradited back to New York where he's arraigned on 90 counts of compulsory prostitution, basically meaning.
[977] forcing people into sex work.
[978] So his trial begins in May 1936, and even though Dewey is wildly impressed with Eunice's investigation work, he still passes her over for the job of actually trying Luciano in court.
[979] Instead, he selects three white men from his team to take the case.
[980] He does, however, appoint Eunice as a handler of sorts for the witnesses, since the women testifying only trust her.
[981] While Luciano has skilled lawyers and an endless well of confidence, he's ultimately no match for the evidence laid out against him.
[982] Dewey and his team grill the mob boss about phone calls and other monetary ties between him and the sex work operation he built, tripping him up and catching him in lies on the stand.
[983] They also expose him as a criminal by pointing out the fact that he manages to wear expensive clothes, eat at fancy restaurants, and have all the trappings of wealth while only claiming $22 ,000 of yearly income on his taxes.
[984] Aw.
[985] He's just these spend threats.
[986] He's just been through it.
[987] Yeah, he's saving.
[988] He's like fast fashion, you guys.
[989] It's just fast fashion.
[990] All of this, coupled with the damning testimonies delivered by the key witnesses, Eunice secured, leads to Luciano's conviction.
[991] So on June 7, 1936, he's found guilty on 62 of the 90 counts of compulsory prostitution against him, and he's sentenced to 30 to 50 years in prison.
[992] However, when World War II breaks out in 1942, Luciano, does get a lucky break.
[993] The U .S. Navy intelligence team has a growing concern that Italian and or German troops might try and attack America by entering New York's waterfront, and that area is largely controlled by the Italian mob.
[994] So in exchange for providing information to the U .S. Navy about the inner workings of that waterfront, Luciano gets the sentence commuted, like for the good of America, I guess.
[995] And he's released on January 3rd, 146 after serving about 10 years in prison, but they're like, you can get out, you can help us, but you don't get a stay in America.
[996] And so a judge rules for Luciano to be deported.
[997] And so in 1946, he boards a ship back to Naples, Italy.
[998] Huh.
[999] That's that.
[1000] Back to Eunice, Luciano's conviction propels Dewey's popularity enough to win him the governorship of New York from 1943 to 1954.
[1001] So even though Eunice is the one who made the conviction of reality.
[1002] But despite never getting quite the credit she deserves, she continues on to have an illustrious career of her own.
[1003] Dewey does thank her by appointing her as the Chief of the Special Sessions Bureau of the New York County Criminal Justice System in 1937, a job that tasks her with overseeing more than 14 ,000 misdemeanor cases a year and makes her one of the highest paid black lawyers in the country during this time.
[1004] Good.
[1005] Yes.
[1006] In 1945, Eunice expands her talents to the global stage as she participates in the founding meetings of the United Nations.
[1007] Wow.
[1008] I know.
[1009] She takes on even media roles as the UN gains traction, serving as chair for several committees that promoted advancements for women internationally through the 1950s and 60s.
[1010] She's huge champion of black women and women in general.
[1011] That's not enough.
[1012] She also serves on the International Council of Women, the National Association of Women, the New York Women's Bar Association, the YWCA, and the Harlem Lawyers Association.
[1013] Wow.
[1014] She's busy.
[1015] She's doing it.
[1016] She spends the rest of her life upholding her family's fierce tenacity for black progress and success before passing away on January 25th, 1970 in New York at just 70 years old.
[1017] Today her legacy is kept alive by her grandson, Yale professor Stephen L. Carter.
[1018] He's written a book detailing Eunice's triumphs called Invisible, The Forgotten Story of the Black Woman Lawyer who took down America's Most Powerful Mobster, which was published in 2018.
[1019] And that is the story of New York Assistant District Attorney, Eunice Carter.
[1020] Incredible.
[1021] Okay, so I am now remembering someone sent me that book, Stephen L. Carter's book, Invisible.
[1022] Uh -huh.
[1023] Because I have talked about, I don't know if I talked about Eunice in relation to a different case.
[1024] Right.
[1025] Now, yes.
[1026] From one of the cases that we did maybe at a live show in New York.
[1027] Yeah.
[1028] Yeah.
[1029] I'm remembering this now.
[1030] But it's truly like pre -COVID.
[1031] Please forgive me. Somebody sent me this book with a letter in it talking about they were related to Eunice.
[1032] Yeah.
[1033] I totally remember this.
[1034] I don't think it was Stephen Carter, though.
[1035] At first, I was like, I think the person that wrote the book or the relative or whatever, but I don't think it was.
[1036] But, and also, I feel like if I looked around my house, I could find the book because I think it's in my front room.
[1037] I'm looking on my bookshelf right now.
[1038] I bet I have it too.
[1039] Yes.
[1040] We've talked about Eunice on this show before.
[1041] For sure.
[1042] For sure.
[1043] But I love the focus being on her entirely.
[1044] How incredible is that?
[1045] Like, mobsters.
[1046] Like, no one fucks with the mob.
[1047] That's like, you don't do that.
[1048] And she was like, hold my purse.
[1049] She's like, I'm smarter than everybody.
[1050] I'm going to do something.
[1051] And why not go up against the people?
[1052] Because there's part of it where it's like, well, I better do it because there's so many of these people on the take that it won't work.
[1053] If like I'm on the outside, I'm using being on the outside to make this happen.
[1054] Right.
[1055] Amazing.
[1056] That felt like a short episode, but it wasn't, it turns out.
[1057] It just went by so fast.
[1058] Well, great job.
[1059] That was a great story.
[1060] Thank you.
[1061] And thank you guys for listening and for listening to your first podcast.
[1062] You're so brave.
[1063] We're proud of you.
[1064] How was it?
[1065] Most of them are not this long.
[1066] No, or this good.
[1067] Or this like swear based.
[1068] But, you know, there's a bunch of other ones.
[1069] So you should listen to those too.
[1070] Absolutely.
[1071] Get on it.
[1072] Yeah.
[1073] Do it.
[1074] Download.
[1075] Rate review, subscribe.
[1076] And also, oh, this is really important.
[1077] Stay sexy.
[1078] Don't get murdered.
[1079] Good.
[1080] Yay.
[1081] Elvis, do you want a cookie?
[1082] This has been an exactly right production.
[1083] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.
[1084] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Creighton.
[1085] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
[1086] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachie.
[1087] Our researchers are Marin McClashin and Ali Elkin.
[1088] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.
[1089] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at MyFave Murder.
[1090] Goodbye.
[1091] Thank you.