#1429 - Colin O'Brady

[0] Three, two, one.

[1] Boom.

[2] Hello, Colin.

[3] Welcome back.

[4] What's up, man?

[5] Good to see you.

[6] I brought a book.

[7] I wrote this book last time since I saw you last.

[8] The Impossible First?

[9] Indeed, indeed, yeah, about my solo journey across Antarctica and kind of diving deep through my whole life from kind of what brought me there and other expeditions and the ups and downs of it all.

[10] And you're coming back from another crazy trip, right?

[11] I am indeed.

[12] What is that nonsense that you did on a kayak?

[13] What did you do?

[14] So after I got back from The Impossible First, the Antarctica Crossing, right about the time I saw you last year, I got a funny phone call, actually, of all things.

[15] People were asking me, you know, what's the next expedition going to be?

[16] What are you going to do?

[17] And I said, you know, I just walk 54 days by myself across Antarctica.

[18] Give me a minute.

[19] Give me a minute to relax.

[20] And I get a phone call via buddy of mine from college connects me to this guy, this Icelandic guy.

[21] I've never met him before.

[22] His name's Fian Paul.

[23] I don't know his story I do now.

[24] He's an absolute legend.

[25] And he says, hey, man, you were just in Antarctica, right?

[26] And I was like, yeah.

[27] And he's like, I think we should go back to Antarctica.

[28] And I was like, all right, well, what are you thinking?

[29] He's like, in a rowboat.

[30] I think we should row a boat from the southern tip of South America to the peninsula of Antarctica across Drake Passage.

[31] How far is that?

[32] About 700 miles.

[33] Can I see what that looks like on the map?

[34] And I said, please delete my phone number.

[35] 700 miles rowing a boat.

[36] Yeah, so Drake Passage is known to be, you know, in seafaring, one of the most treacherous, if not the most treacherous kind of passageway in the world.

[37] You know, you've gotten, you know, the Atlantic and the Pacific and the Southern Ocean kind of all converging between the Antarctic Peninsula and the southern tip of South America.

[38] So you got 40 -foot swells.

[39] You got, you know, crazy waves, icebergs as you get close to Antarctica.

[40] And the mission or the goal was to see if we could, there it is right there.

[41] That whole area?

[42] That whole area.

[43] From there to there?

[44] From there to there.

[45] all the way down, yeah, the main peninsula there, Van Ordeco.

[46] So ultimately, it took us just less than two weeks to do the entire row, but it was a long journey in the planning from that phone call all the way through to that year, but it was a two -week or 12 -day crossing.

[47] So in the two weeks, you had to have two weeks worth of food, two weeks worth of drinking water, on the boat.

[48] Yes, so, well, water actually, we have a desalinator, so off of solar panels.

[49] Everything's, you know, solar, there's no engine, no safe.

[50] Ayl, nothing like that.

[51] It's just completely human -powered rowing.

[52] Do you have a portable desalinator?

[53] Yeah.

[54] How big is it?

[55] It fits inside one of the tiny.

[56] So the boat's tiny.

[57] The boat's like 25 feet long, three guys rowing at a time.

[58] So there's six of us total in the team ultimately, you know, barely anywhere to sleep in this tiny little compartments like the size of like, you know, sleeping in the back of a, you know, hatchback of a Honda Civic or something like that.

[59] But, yeah, so you've got this desalinator that's basically kind of in one of the central compartment.

[60] So it's probably like, I don't know, maybe two feet by.

[61] two feet square, something like that.

[62] And I mean, it doesn't make a water real fast.

[63] You can make 10 liters of water in like, you know, an hour or two, depending on this how the sun is.

[64] That's pretty good.

[65] But, I mean, it gets it done.

[66] Yeah, it gets it done.

[67] Does it taste like whale dicks?

[68] What does the water taste like?

[69] It was weird.

[70] As we got closer to Antarctica, I think it started messing up because it got real salty.

[71] Like, it wasn't doing quite as good of a job.

[72] The water near Antarctica was like 1 degree Celsius, so 33 Fahrenheit, I mean, practically frozen cold water.

[73] And I think that was kind of starting to tweak out the system.

[74] so you're drinking salt water as we got closer it was like it was still potable but it was like this isn't working as well but early on i mean it worked just fine like it was pretty much you know cold cold drinking water like bottle water yeah exactly but then does it only do it for a certain amount of time does the filter get filled up or anything um it worked for the entire uh 12 days that we were out there there's guys who've gone on longer you know rowing exhibitions across the pacific or the atlantic or longer stretches of ocean um that you know works the entire time um but it is one of the things that that breaks down so we had extra spare parts fortunately we don't have to use any of that but but yeah no it uh it worked and then yeah of course we had to bring food for the entire time as well um on on there so that was you know a key part of it how much food so there were six of us like i said pretty much all the compartments were full um you know there was in tiny little compartments but we basically ate two things so we uh we had free stride meals so like mountain house free stride meals and we this little jet boil that we were kind of as crazy as the waters like it's 40 you know 40 foot waves are bouncing around on this trying to hold a jet boil to try to boil some water.

[75] It was pretty tough, but some close calls with that.

[76] But we also had these bars.

[77] So last time, I think we talked about last time I was on here, had these kind of custom nutrition bars that were made.

[78] And so that worked really well for me in the Antarctica Crossing.

[79] We had done all this kind of blood work.

[80] Did you explain that again, like how you made, how those made?

[81] Yeah.

[82] So when I was doing my Antarctica crossing, one of the kind of challenges is basically, can you take enough food with you?

[83] Because what I was doing was called unsupported.

[84] So no resupplies of food or fuel crossing the landmass of Antarctica.

[85] 54 days.

[86] And so I wanted to get like the most optimized nutrition.

[87] And so I work with this company called Standard Process, who's all like a whole food supplement company.

[88] And they've got all these sort of doctors, food scientists and this.

[89] And I went in their lab for a year.

[90] And they did all this kind of custom blood work on my body, trying to figure out, you know, basically my exact sort of physiology.

[91] And they created these bars based on all of the research that they did that based were these really high calorie bars because it was the most high calories that I needed to optimize space, and they were kind of, they were all, they're all plant -based and ended up.

[92] And then I know there's, what's in them again?

[93] You know, coconut oil, nuts, seeds, you know, sort of different phytonutrients and a particular macronutrient blend that I needed.

[94] It was about 45 % fat, because I needed the high fat, about 40 % protein, and then 15 % with the math on that, 15 % carbs.

[95] And so, excuse me, sorry, I re -alternated the protein carb quotient there, but, but yeah, it worked really well for that.

[96] And so when I was doing the row, I called up standard process again.

[97] They've been an amazing partner mine.

[98] And they were like, hey, I'm doing this row.

[99] Those bars worked so good last time.

[100] And like I just said with, you know, trying to boil water and, you know, all this stuff is really challenging on the row.

[101] But the best would be to have this really kind of high optimized nutrition that we could use again for the project like this.

[102] But the parameters are different.

[103] You know, the humidity is different.

[104] The temperature is different.

[105] There's six of us now.

[106] There's not just one of me. You know, can we optimize it for that?

[107] So they kind of made a specialty blend of the bars again.

[108] But they've called the column bars.

[109] so they could probably come up with a better name.

[110] But it worked really well.

[111] Can people buy those online anywhere?

[112] They're not for sale.

[113] We've talked about doing that, so maybe in the future, but you can see online on their website, like all the different supplements and stuff that went into it, so you can kind of buy the component parts.

[114] But yeah, one day we might make them, but they've been kind of just custom for these two projects, but they've worked really, really well, particularly in the rowing.

[115] So, I mean, they worked amazing in the Antarctic Crossing as well, but in the rowing, it was 90 minutes of rowing on, 90 minutes of rowing off, continuous 24 hours a day.

[116] So we're kind of in two sets of three, six of us total three people rowing three people resting and in that 90 minutes that you're off that's also when you got to you know eat drink sleep it's your only time to rest basically and so as much time as you can kind of optimize eating and stuff meant more sleeping and so to have these bars get done with a 90 minute rowing shift be able to eat you know a thousand calorie bar highest you know quality nutrition in your body um I mean standard process nailed it again it was amazing to you know have these bars and have it work really well for all of us to kind of optimize not just the food but also the efficiency of sleep because the sleep got fucking crazy out there like i can imagine yeah yeah so you're you're basically sleeping every 90 minutes for you know one hour or so yeah exactly ish like if you can get it and like when once the swells start cranking up like you're in this tiny compartment like i don't know if you can pull up a picture of the boat for a visual or some on my instagram is it covered at all um not covered like really not covered at all like so well there's covered in the tiny compartment so the rowing part's not covered at all so when you're rowing waves are splashing up like over top of you I mean you're getting completely soaked like you're getting you know completely soaked the entire time and then the tiny compartment you know it's like it's like lower than this table like you'd be like kind of crouched down like in there um yeah this is the robot right here so that's us so that's the floor is that where all the food is stored underneath yeah underneath there's compartment so you can see that tiny little kind of compartment on either side one's smaller and one's bigger that's where you guys would sleep well the bigger one has the waves it's hard to believe that there's 12 people three no six people Six people.

[117] Oh, excuse me, six people.

[118] Yeah, yeah, yeah, but still.

[119] So you got, you know, three people in the, three people rowing and three people in the compartment sitting in time.

[120] I think if you kind of scroll up to the top, maybe there's one of just that shows like the whole boat, or like what it looks like maybe there.

[121] There's kind of a shot of it.

[122] So yeah, so you can see in there, like the back little compartment, that's where I was, that I was alternating with this guy, Fiona, who I mentioned, the Icelandic guy, who was the captain of the boat, and really experienced ocean rower.

[123] And we alternated inside this little cabin, and then the other four guys.

[124] they alternated two people because that one's a little bit bigger in the front, though it's the bow cabin in the front.

[125] But they're like, you're like head to toe in there or you're crouched into a little ball.

[126] It's not glamorous at all.

[127] Did you know these guys at all before he did this?

[128] So, not really.

[129] Not really.

[130] Yeah, it was a deep dive into the team.

[131] And after doing something solo, I was pretty excited to do something, you know, as a team and doing something and a completely, you know, exploring a completely different kind of avenue of exploration in the ocean, something I'd never done before.

[132] And I had actually, not only did I not know these guys, a couple of them went to college with but we like really loosely knew each other like I kind of like maybe like oh recognize their face a little bit but it didn't we weren't like good friends or anything like that three of them I had never met my entire life um and I had also have never rode a boat in my life ever before um and so when fion he called me up and told me about the project he's one of the world's most renowned ocean rowers he's got you know 30 world records or something like that um complete legend he's rode boats across every single ocean this was like the kind of the last you know big ocean that he'd never crossed.

[133] No one, you know, no one ever done it just like this before.

[134] And so he kind of said, hey, I wanted this idea, but the logistics are super complicated.

[135] Like going to Antarctica is all this sort of like treaties that you need, all this paperwork, getting a boat down to South America, importing it through the Panama Canal, etc. I mean, it's like a tough thing.

[136] And he'd been like kind of thinking about it for a year or so.

[137] And he said like, hey, I've seen you pull off some big projects together.

[138] Can we kind of team up?

[139] And I know, you know, your team has got really good at figuring out these logistics.

[140] Would you be interested?

[141] And I'd actually looked at ocean rowing.

[142] a couple years ago was something that I wanted to do one day.

[143] And so it was kind of a, after I kind of got that first phone call, like I said, like kind of like, dude, I just got back from an article.

[144] I don't want to go back there tomorrow.

[145] But, you know, of course, the curiosity inside of he got the best to me. And I called him back up and I said, hey, let's do this.

[146] What are you thinking?

[147] And kind of dove into it from there.

[148] Kind of my team kind of wrapped our arms around the sort of like logistic and building out the project.

[149] And he was definitely the visionary of something he dreamed up.

[150] And it was super cool to team up with him after doing something alone.

[151] Now, this thing that you did when you walked across Antarctica, very impressive, incredible, but I'm sure you've seen the National Geographic article that wrote about you.

[152] And they said that there was another man from, was it Norway, that had done it already.

[153] Yes.

[154] It wasn't the first time someone had gone across Antarctica.

[155] He had gone actually a further distance.

[156] Yeah.

[157] So something I've been talking about super openly, including in my book, which is, The Net -Geo article, you know, it's a little bit unfortunate.

[158] I actually just published a 16 -page letter asking Nat Geo to retract the entire article.

[159] And the reason it's 16 pages is unfortunately the entire article they wrote is just so riddled with inaccuracies and kind of misrepresentations and omissions that, you know, we had to kind of ask them say, hey, look, you know, you kind of got this wrong.

[160] I was never properly interviewed for it.

[161] But one of the things, you're talking about this guy, Borga Ausland, this Norwegian guy.

[162] Absolute freaking legend.

[163] So what this guy did in 1996, so 20 some years before that I attempted my crossing, is he crossed Antarctica from the edge of the coastline, cross the ice shelf, all the way across the landmass, across the other ice shelf, roughly 1 ,800 miles.

[164] And what he used to propel himself was he used a kite for a good portion of the time.

[165] And it's an absolute extraordinary project.

[166] And what's really weird about sort of this National Geographic article, a number of senses, is one of the premises of it was saying, you know, Nolan never talked about Borg Aouslin.

[167] Like, he never talked about him in his book, he never mentioned it, he never this.

[168] And in my book, which is really bizarre and why we're asking for a retraction, because it's just really ineffectual, is that, you know, here I am on page 49 of my book.

[169] Literally, it says, the Norwegian adventurer Borga Aouselan in many ways define the terrain of astonishing modern Antarctic feats, becoming the first person across Antarctica solo when you traveled 1 ,800 miles in 63 days from 1996, 1997.

[170] Not only did he cross the entire landmass of Antarctica, but he also crossed the full Ron and Ross ice shelves from the ocean's edge.

[171] Alson's expedition has deeply inspired me and was unsupported, and he hauled all of his food and fuels with no resupplies.

[172] So it was weird.

[173] It's like the journalist wrote this article, but didn't read my book.

[174] That's not surprising.

[175] And I had done, I don't know, a lot of, there's a lot of speculation.

[176] I had did this big project and the film project around the row was with Discovery.

[177] I don't know if Nat Geo was coming at Discovery or whatever, but it's really bizarre.

[178] I mean, we could talk about all the different kind of fine points of that.

[179] But the big distinction, and, like, I'll say it.

[180] I've said it, shout it from the rooftops, but I'll say it here again.

[181] Borga Ausland is absolutely incredible.

[182] Like, I am in awe of the guy.

[183] What he did in 96 is phenomenal.

[184] That's why I write about it in my book.

[185] That's why I've written about it on my social.

[186] The day after I finished my crossing, I wrote about it on there as well.

[187] And I said, wow, so many people have inspired me. I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, the only way I was able to do this.

[188] Right, but this says impossible first, right?

[189] So he did it first.

[190] Right.

[191] So the difference is, is there's kind of two really specific distinctions in the world of polar travel.

[192] There's unsupported, which means not using, not using, not getting resupply with food or fuel like I was talking about with the food.

[193] And then there's unassisted, which means not using anything to propel you other than your own body.

[194] So that's called human powered alone.

[195] So what he did is considered assisted in that he used a kite.

[196] But he was able to go twice the distance of me, which is amazing.

[197] So he crossed.

[198] How often did he use the kite?

[199] Because what I'd read that he had only used the kite in a few instances where the wind was right.

[200] Right.

[201] So that's another one of the things that the National Geographic article unfortunately got wrong.

[202] And in my 16 page letter that anyone can read, it's on my website, Colinabrated .com slash blog letter to NatGeo or it's linked to my Instagram.

[203] It's not like a he said, he said thing where I'm like, oh, hey, this got wrong.

[204] It's just actually a really kind of documented and sourced document that has links to everything.

[205] And one of the links that shows is actually his entire kind of project afterwards in the aftermath of him talking about it, including talking about with Parawing, which was the, one of his sponsors, the guys who actually built and manufactured the kite.

[206] And they're talking about how he used it for about at least a third of his journey, 600 or so miles, as well as, you know, he was able to use the kite going 125 miles in a single day, which is, like I said, it's amazing.

[207] It's really incredible what he did in the time that he did it.

[208] It's just really kind of an apples and oranges comparison when it comes to polar travel and the distinctions of that.

[209] So he traveled further, but he used some assistance.

[210] Yeah.

[211] So there's basically these different distinctions in the world of polar travel, and that's another one of the things.

[212] Again, I'm not sure how they got this wrong.

[213] And in the link on the 16 page thing, I show the text message when the journalist asked me, well, tell me about these definitions of unsupported and unassisted.

[214] And I sent him the link, and there's these links.

[215] It's a kind of published thing on this website called Antarctica Logistics and Expeditions, the main sort of expedition facilitator, the person who runs logistics down there.

[216] It's very clear.

[217] Unsupported means no use of resupplies.

[218] Unassisted means no use.

[219] use of kites or dogs.

[220] And so the thing that I did solo that people, I guess, have gotten somewhat confused about or at first, was I was the first person to cross the landmass of Antarctica, solo, unsupported, no resupplies, and unassisted, no kites.

[221] What Borga Aleslam did is he was the first person to cross Antarctica, not just the landmass, but also the ice shelves.

[222] So there's frozen ocean on this ice shelves.

[223] So from the coast, cross the ice shelf, across the landmass, and across the other ice shelf.

[224] And no one yet, including myself, has ever done a solo unsupported, unassisted crossing of both the landmass and the ice shelves.

[225] I hope someone does it, man. It would be amazing.

[226] I had 375 pounds sled, and I almost ran out of food at the end crossing the landmass, and if you'd need maybe a 600 pound sled or something like that or maybe a more optimized food solution that no one's thought of yet.

[227] But it hasn't been done yet.

[228] How big was Osslyn Sled?

[229] Similar size of me. So he was out there for, I think he was out there for 63 days, roughly.

[230] I was out there for 54 days.

[231] So we were not out there a lot difference in duration of time.

[232] Oh, okay.

[233] So the Sled really did make a big difference that if he's going that much further than you.

[234] Exactly.

[235] Okay.

[236] Yeah.

[237] So one more time, you were out there, how many days?

[238] I was out there 54 days.

[239] And he was out there 63 days.

[240] Okay, that's not that different.

[241] Right.

[242] And so he, like I said, on some of the days he talks about it, that he went, he does it in kilometers, but if you calculate back to miles, like 125 miles in a 15 -hour period of time.

[243] That's unfathomable just walking, pulling a sled.

[244] They're just two different things.

[245] It's like the difference between sailing across an ocean and rowing a boat across the ocean.

[246] Why do you think National Geographic got that wrong then?

[247] Because the way they wrote it, it was, you know, is they made it look like you're just a fame whore and that, you know, there was a bunch of other explorers and outdoors people that were in support of the fact that Aousselm was the only one, the first one to do it, they didn't make this distinction.

[248] And they actually made it seem as if the sled was an ingenious solution.

[249] But it seems like that was a planned thing and that was an engineered thing.

[250] And that it wasn't something that he built up on the fly.

[251] This was the method that they used to help him get across the snow.

[252] Totally.

[253] And like I said, if you look in the pet letter that I wrote, it's got links to actually the manufacturer.

[254] They kind of talk about it as being this elegant solutionist, like he put a kite up randomly.

[255] You figured it out, hey, I got an idea.

[256] But it's like a fully manufactured thing.

[257] It's a legit kite.

[258] And like I said, this is not me knocking on that.

[259] I actually think that project, it's one of the project that inspired me the most to do what I did.

[260] It is amazing.

[261] It sounds amazing.

[262] Can we see what Aousseland, does there any photograph of Aouselan's kite?

[263] I want to see what it looks like.

[264] Yeah, it's whenever someone does something extraordinary.

[265] Like, there's no doubt just what you did.

[266] 50, how many days again?

[267] Fifty four days?

[268] It was fucking crazy.

[269] It's crazy.

[270] And for anybody to shit on that is nuts.

[271] So, and you're the first one that's ever done it just pulling that thing.

[272] And you showed us what it was like last time you were here.

[273] Totally.

[274] And some of the areas where you had to pull it, it seems like an insane physical undertaking.

[275] Totally.

[276] I mean, so yeah, it definitely tested me to the edges of my potential.

[277] There was many times that it felt impossible.

[278] I think we talked about it last time, but the second chapter in my book is called Frozen Tears because on the first hour trying to pull my sled, 375 pounds fully loaded of food and fuel I started crying like I literally started crying the tears are freezing in my face is the all -type pathetic feeling I mean it was really really brutal and really challenging and you one of the things for sure in the National Geographic article they're not they're not disputing that I did this it's not like they're saying you didn't walk 932 miles by yourself across Antarctica they kind of like grudgingly gave you credit for doing something really freaky yeah they also didn't mention the difference between the time it took you to travel that and the time it took Owsland to travel a far greater distance or that he used that kite to go more than a hundred miles in a day.

[279] Those are pretty big, important things.

[280] Totally.

[281] And I think that, yeah, hopefully you can pull up a picture of the Owsling cut with the kite.

[282] It's linked in there.

[283] Not finding his specifically.

[284] I'm finding kites there, but not with him.

[285] Yeah.

[286] If it's out there, Jamie, you'll find it.

[287] Yeah, we'll find it in a second.

[288] But, you know, it's, like I said, it's unfortunate thing.

[289] You know, I wrote this letter, the editor of National Geographic, I actually responded instead they're reviewing it.

[290] You know, I think they're going to hopefully do the right thing.

[291] The facts are pretty clear on this one.

[292] Well, hopefully we can pressure them by just explaining it here.

[293] Here it is.

[294] Yeah, that's a big difference.

[295] That's a big -ass fucking kite.

[296] Yeah.

[297] I'm sure that has a lot of power behind it, too.

[298] And I bet that really helped him.

[299] Totally.

[300] And you can ski with those things.

[301] Like, the fact that he's got skis on and he's getting pulled by that kite, I mean, you're gliding.

[302] Yeah.

[303] You're not propelling yourself.

[304] They're both really cool.

[305] Oh, hold on.

[306] Go back to that, Jamie.

[307] Go back to that.

[308] Look, he doesn't have poles in his hands.

[309] No, he's just holding on to the kite being pulled along by it.

[310] So he's probably strapped to that kite.

[311] Yeah, it's like if you imagine like a kite board, like a kiteboarding on the water or something like that.

[312] So he's probably strapped at the waist.

[313] He's holding on to that kite, but it's pulling him while he's on skis.

[314] Yes.

[315] Whereas what you did was pull with trekking poles.

[316] Yeah, trekking poles and, you know, cross -country skis with skins, but just to give me traction so I didn't sink too deep in the snow but I'm just walking basically just pulling it with my own body fully he's not doing that it's a different thing they're just two different things I'm sure there was times where he had to walk right yeah yeah he manhalled for parts of it as well like a significant distance but a lot of it when the wind was with him you know he put up his kite and pulled along and the fact that he was able to go more than a hundred miles in a day makes me go wait a minute what yeah come on that's a different thing totally different thing that's a different thing national geographic to not recognize that that's a different thing that he can go on the snow pulling 300 pounds more than a hundred miles how how many he went 125 and one time in 15 hours fucking ridiculous yeah that's a totally different thing completely completely national geographic Jesus Christ yeah I mean they should they should have been really clear about that because they were trying to make it out like some elegant solution that he occasionally used not big deal but what he really did was amazing what he did was fucking amazing There's no doubt about it.

[317] No doubt.

[318] No doubt.

[319] What we just saw on that image of him getting pulled by that giant ass fucking kite on skis strapped to this harness with all the weight behind him also being pulled by that giant ass kite.

[320] That's a different thing.

[321] 124 miles in a day pulling 300 plus pounds.

[322] Get the fuck out of here.

[323] It's hard to walk 124 miles in a day.

[324] Let alone with nothing on your back.

[325] Zach Bitter, who holds the American World Record for the first.

[326] fastest 24 hours ever run ran it full clip at 11 hours he ran 100 miles wow so 124 miles in 15 minutes while dragging hundreds of pounds or 15 minutes i say 15 minutes 15 hours 1124 miles while dragging 10024 miles while dragging hundreds of pounds a gear all in 15 hours is insane that's insane yes if zack bitter can run a hundred miles in 11 hours and break a world record or an American record.

[327] Is it a world record or American record?

[328] American record.

[329] Yeah, that's a crazy record.

[330] Yeah.

[331] A hundred fucking miles in 11 hours is crazy running and that guy did 124 with hundreds of pounds of gear and a sled in 15 hours.

[332] Exactly.

[333] That's a different thing.

[334] Just two different things, man. It's two different things.

[335] And so.

[336] World record.

[337] Yeah, Zach won the, oh, we'll see.

[338] He had the American record first and then And he broke the world record in his latest attempt.

[339] Zach Vitter's a monster.

[340] Yeah.

[341] Shout out to Zach.

[342] But him being able to do that running is incredible.

[343] That guy being able to go further in just four hours longer, pulling hundreds of pounds of gear, come on National Teographic.

[344] They're just two different things.

[345] That's a different, and it's not unimpressive.

[346] It's incredibly impressive.

[347] That guy has fucking steel resolve to be able to do that and get all the way across the ice shelves and all that shit that he had to do.

[348] Absolutely.

[349] And I mean, the biggest thing for me is, unfortunately, that was, you know, portrayed in a certain way.

[350] I don't know if it wasn't fact checked or what that.

[351] But like, for me, the whole purpose of any of this, the whole purpose of writing the book and sharing it with the world and being on, you know, talking to people, you know, via your podcast or whatever, like, my whole goal is to inspire other people to step outside of their comfort zones, do things in their life, challenge themselves.

[352] Like, this is not about me. It's not about not not about not.

[353] It's got to be a little bit about you.

[354] You wrote a book.

[355] I like it.

[356] Have you written a book?

[357] No, have not.

[358] Really?

[359] No. That surprises me. I started writing a book at one point in time, but I had a deal with a book publisher, and the notes were so brutal.

[360] I gave them the money back.

[361] Really?

[362] They were like they didn't like it?

[363] They wanted me to write essentially the way I write stand -up.

[364] They wanted me to be like, set up punchline, set up punchline.

[365] I was like, this is not how you write things, guys.

[366] Like they wanted it.

[367] Different without the intonation of the voice and the...

[368] Yeah, they actually wanted to take my stand -up.

[369] They offered to just take my stand -up and transcribe it into.

[370] a book.

[371] And I said, I'd never do that.

[372] And they're like, well, George Carlin did it.

[373] I go, it's because he owed the fucking IRS a billion dollars.

[374] Come on, man. If you ask George, it was a good idea.

[375] I bet he would say no. He needed money.

[376] George Carlin was like deep in the hole with the IRS.

[377] He did a lot of things.

[378] I'm sure he didn't want to do.

[379] Yeah.

[380] But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to write a book that way.

[381] Well, I'll tell you, I have walked across the landmass of an article by myself.

[382] I've wrote a boat.

[383] I've done some other crazy shit in my life.

[384] But the hardest thing I've ever done us write a book really yes no shit is that hard it really was you know um i'm proud i'm proud of the outcome you know i really poured my heart and soul into it but it was challenged i been journaling since i was a little kid like since i was 12 years old so going back through all my journals and thinking about you know there's the antarctica piece of this but it's uh the subtitle's from fire to ice so i talk about you know being burning this fire in thailand being told i would never walk again normally going through all these pieces of my life but one of the things that happened when i was in arctica which it was interesting to me maybe you'll find it interesting is as i was by myself in this empty white landscape 24 hours of daylight endless white nothingness my mind started filling in with all of these memories so i deleted almost all my music i'm in silence i'm a full solitude like if i said to you hey joe remember the day you graduated from high school and like someone's going to pop in right now we're going to keep talking and you're going to move on from that but when i was walking out there by myself if someone would pop my head like hey colin remember that your first swim race when you were a little kid and all of a sudden like i'd be back there like i could like dive in and I could see my mom on the edge of the pool deck and the, you know, the wind's blowing across my face and I can see the kid next to me and I can taste the chlorine in my mouth.

[385] I mean, visceral memories like a lucid dream were coming back to me throughout for weeks and weeks and weeks at a time.

[386] So the book itself, it reads about Antarctica, but it intersperses the way my experience was in Antarctica, which was actually going back in through my life in this kind of tapestry of visual memories and flashbacks of other expeditions and childhood and the ups and downs in my personal life and kind of all of these things kind of conspiring into one but it was it was wild to go deep into the brain like that um sure we should probably point out we've had a podcast before in this podcast that we did before was right after you got back from this journey in Antarctica and you described the whole thing in Thailand you described getting burned and how you never thought you were going to walk again yeah all that stuff so we should tell people so stop right pause go back the other one come back here again um how did it upset you when the National Geographic article came out?

[387] Like, did you feel like, well, they just got it wrong?

[388] Let me straighten them out.

[389] You know, it's one of those things.

[390] I'd be curious to hear your perspective on kind of media and stuff like this.

[391] You've been around, you know, doing type of stuff like me more longer than me. But it, you know, it hurt my feelings, obviously, and I was kind of just, it was bizarre because it was so factually inaccurate.

[392] And National Geographic is, you know, a magazine or an outlet that I've looked up to throughout my entire life.

[393] It's just like a really beautiful, you know, platform.

[394] and so I was just surprised.

[395] I was surprised that I was never asked for a proper long -form interview of this.

[396] I was surprised that I was never contacted by a proper fact -checker.

[397] There was just some things that were just like weird and out of place.

[398] And, you know, I guess it was a freelancer.

[399] Again, I don't know the whole story behind it.

[400] That's probably what it is.

[401] If I had a guess, look, there's very little in, like, praising people.

[402] There's a whole lot in taking people down.

[403] Yeah.

[404] If they could find that you did something, that you did something incorrect or you lied about something, or exaggerated about something.

[405] I mean, they made you out to be a liar.

[406] Yeah.

[407] I mean, I read it and I was like, wow, like they're saying he's a liar.

[408] Yeah.

[409] They're saying how much of it is fiction.

[410] Yeah.

[411] They literally said fiction.

[412] But how much of it could be fiction if you fucking really did walk 54 goddamn days across Antarctica?

[413] Not only that, the kind of weird parts about it is, not only that, but I also had a GPS on me the entire time.

[414] It was completely transparent.

[415] Every 10 minutes, the entire journey were live for the see.

[416] The New York Times covered it.

[417] they had my GPS tracker up live.

[418] The map of my route is in the first page of my book, let alone online 24 -7.

[419] There's been hundreds of articles written about this by outlets who have fact -checked and researched or whatever.

[420] So for Nat Geo to make all those claims, it's like saying, like, Colin somehow tricked every person ever from every news outlet that's covered this and fact -checked it and reported on it and his editors is a book and there's some hacked his Jeep.

[421] I mean, it's like a crazy conspiracy weird kind of stance on it.

[422] Because everyone, how do you say his name, Ausland?

[423] Owsland, yeah.

[424] That Aousseland had done it.

[425] Everybody knew that Aouselan had done it.

[426] Maybe they just didn't understand the details of it.

[427] So they started complaining, hey, he didn't do it first.

[428] Aouselan did it first.

[429] And this guy's like, I got a story.

[430] So he goes to try to go after you, but then realizes, like, oh, it's kind of, he kind of did it first.

[431] But the other guy did it.

[432] Well, let's just say that the kite was cool.

[433] Right.

[434] He had a cool kite.

[435] But, I mean, he did even weirder things.

[436] Like in the first paragraph or second paragraph of the entire article, he takes a quote from page 50 of my book and a quote from page 214 of my book and puts them together as if they're a single statement and I'm like they're about two completely different things that I'm talking about and you're like dude that's what people do man you want to sell dirt you know or he says like Colin made up this thing about no rescue zones no one's ever written about the fact of in Antarctica and he talks about me getting picked up in Antarctica like I can call an Uber he literally says in there uses somebody else to quote he says I mean, getting picked up in an article is like calling an Uber, which is by itself just literally said that?

[437] He really says that in the article, which is just crazy.

[438] That's hilarious.

[439] Bitch, try getting an Uber in the woods in Montana.

[440] Okay?

[441] I'm like an Uber and then the craziest thing.

[442] And again, that is so crazy.

[443] My response to this is just factual.

[444] It's not, you know, it's, I just try to not be too defensive of anything about it.

[445] But it's just, well, the good news is this will reach way more people than that article.

[446] Yeah, it's, but I'll say one last thing about it, the irony of this is if you, Google Borgaslin in 2018 right after 2019 right after I finished my crossing he's interviewed about all this and in a quote and I linked to this in my you know my letter it him saying there are parts of Antarctica particularly in the large astroogie zones which is exactly what I was talking about where rescue is impossible like he the guy who's against me is also quoted saying the other thing but then he says it's like the whole thing is just you know it's crazy man there's so much money and shitting on someone that's that's what it is I'm sure and I'm sure this guy well I'm sure this guy who wrote that article is probably a little bit of a hater yeah you know probably saw you and like the fuck this guy you know it's the world we live in unfortunately i try to you know keep my head up like i said i wrote this book to inspire other people to step outside their comfort zones i'm sure they paid for it too right i got paid for it as well yeah it's also like is that is there so wrong no you definitely should get paid you should get paid for the whole thing but the fact that they're trying to diminish what you did and what you really did do was walk by yourself for 54 days through Antarctica.

[447] And one of the things he was even saying something about it was on a road.

[448] Yeah.

[449] And I'm like, hey, bitch, why don't you walk dragon 300 pounds on a road?

[450] Like, does that matter?

[451] Everything's covered in snow and ice.

[452] Like, what fucking road is this?

[453] Yeah, so there's basically this 300 mile stretch was the last third of my part of my journey, which by the way was on my GPS, which by the way I talk about in my book, which by the way I widely acknowledge.

[454] And it's called the South Pole Overland Traverse.

[455] And so the South Pole station, the U .S. research station that's at the South Pole was resupplied throughout the summer season from the coast.

[456] And they drive this kind of bunch of tractors, basically, up this area called the Leverett Glacier.

[457] And it's not like a paved road.

[458] This is them driving over ice and snow and, like, filling in crevasses along the way, et cetera.

[459] And there's some tire tracks and some flagging that are out there.

[460] So first of all, I've already traveled almost 600 miles without any of that.

[461] And then as I get there, and we know this is part of it, and I've talked about widely with all the polar experts, all of the people that make the classifications, and unassisted refers specifically to kites and dogs.

[462] And they're trying to make this claim that the road somehow, quote unquote, big air quotes, road, basically some rutted up tracks in the snow, you know, I'm out there.

[463] This is not a paved road.

[464] No, there's not a paved road out there.

[465] And the thing is Antarctica is so brutal.

[466] We showed some clips last time he's setting at my 10, 50, 60 mile per hour winds that it was like.

[467] Yeah.

[468] When that blows over, imagine driving a tractor over snow, and then 50, 60 -mile winds come in.

[469] What do you think happens?

[470] It's blown over immediately.

[471] So I never saw these tractors.

[472] I never saw these vehicles.

[473] I never saw it.

[474] I saw some flags, of course.

[475] I saw some rutted tracks, but I linked to it on my letter to this.

[476] So it's really not much difference in walking on flat ground.

[477] No, not at all.

[478] And still, there's still this is droogie.

[479] So there's still huge bumps of snow.

[480] And a lot of the time it was whited.

[481] I was completely whited out.

[482] I couldn't see five or ten feet in front of me. So it's not like I could, a lot of times these flags that were every 100 to 400 meter.

[483] It's not like I'd even see those.

[484] So it's just a shame.

[485] And I've been very transparent about the fact that I use that route.

[486] It was the safest route.

[487] It was the only route the logistic company wanted to support.

[488] And it fells completely in the distinctions of what is known as unassisted.

[489] And he kind of makes his claim about that's not true where people are rethinking that.

[490] And one of the weird things is...

[491] Rethinking it.

[492] Right.

[493] So they're now, because of some of this, the polar community have gotten together after my project.

[494] So my project squarely falls in the definitions as they...

[495] were followed all of the rules and all of this now now they're sitting together and they're saying you know maybe we should rewrite some of these rules or make certain definitions different which by the way if they want to change rules that's totally fine the problem is it would be like this this is like what them calling me sort of like a liar or something would be equivalent of this with major league baseball got together and said you know what all games in baseball are going to be 10 innings now instead of nine innings.

[496] And all of those guys over the last hundred years that played 200 and a thousand games or whatever who played nine innings, they cheated, they lied, they didn't play the full game.

[497] Like they, you know, they cheat.

[498] Just like, you know, they're, if they want to change whatever distinctions or classifications or stuff forward looking, great.

[499] And what would the distinctions be that they would change that you can't do it on a road?

[500] So I think they're trying to make it finer grained, which is like there would be like a kite distinction.

[501] There would be a no supported distinction.

[502] There would be a distinction for using, you know, partial of a, if there was a flagging or this like you know road which by the way is not a road to be clear it's snow and ice just like the rest of it um i don't i don't there's uh there might if you if you none of it at no point in time was it like flat ground no it's ice and snow where a tractor we might see like some wheels and in fact lou rudd who's the other guy who i was racing out there in arnica he wrote a whole blog post about that's linked to in my letter and you know of course he's he did the exact same thing as me by the way the exact same thing same distinction um and And, you know, I finished a couple days ahead of him, but what he did was absolutely incredible is this race, and we talk a lot about it in the book.

[503] And a ton of respect for that guy as well, a friend of mine.

[504] And, you know, he, you know, writes about this, you know, quote -unquote road or the South Pole Overland traverses.

[505] It's actually known.

[506] And he's like, it's rutted up tracks.

[507] Like, you couldn't, even in the parts where I saw tired tracks, it's, like, actually worse than actually...

[508] Because you don't slide across it.

[509] Because you don't slide across it.

[510] The snow is all rutted up.

[511] It's chunked up.

[512] It's actually like tripping you.

[513] It's, like, even worse.

[514] Like skiing on broken ice versus powder.

[515] Yeah.

[516] So this journal And there's other people who are saying this.

[517] This is not like they've, like, been out there before.

[518] It's an attractive thing to say.

[519] Part of his journey was actually on a road.

[520] You're like, oh, fuck that guy.

[521] There's a road in Antarctica?

[522] Yeah.

[523] But that's how it sounds.

[524] When you say part of it was on a road, it sounds like, like this is the road.

[525] Oh, Christ, that's it?

[526] That's the road.

[527] That ain't not really a fucking road, man. That's just flat snow.

[528] Exactly.

[529] And that would be, like, the best case.

[530] Most of the time, it's wind blowing across it.

[531] Like, that's on the perfect conditions, perfect sunny day.

[532] But look to the left and look to the right.

[533] Like, it doesn't make a difference.

[534] It's the same.

[535] It's the same.

[536] Yeah.

[537] That's really deceptive that they wrote that.

[538] Yeah.

[539] That's really deceptive.

[540] Because they made it seem like, oh, and then he gets to the highway and he's just walking.

[541] It's like, hit track, you put my thumb out.

[542] Like, you'll pick a bus.

[543] Come on, man. He still went 54 fucking days across Antarctica.

[544] And I know they acknowledged that in a small way in the article, but they really, like, just that.

[545] Just that.

[546] description calling that a road like that it's I mean sort of technically a road there's no fucking ground man it's just all ice and snow yeah exactly you don't see the ground exactly and like I said I was transparent about that was my route asked all the people they're like yep you're within the rules you're doing the right thing no one's ever done this before and then you know damn everybody's a fucking hater yeah that's the world we're having a bucket you know that no tell me that throw crabs in a bucket none of them ever get out because when they try to get out the other ones grab them and drag them oh yeah exactly exactly they're piling On top of each other, the other crabs, just get out in here with me. Fuck, I can't walk 54 days.

[547] You can't eat a bitch.

[548] Just drag you.

[549] Onward.

[550] Onward, onward.

[551] Onward is nice, but, man, it's really disturbing.

[552] Have you thought about suing them?

[553] You know.

[554] Drop the hammer, son.

[555] Call the Jews.

[556] Do you know any good Jews?

[557] They're attorneys.

[558] Is that racist to say?

[559] I don't think it is because they're positive.

[560] They're really good at it.

[561] Some would say they're not that it is racist.

[562] anti -Semitic.

[563] Yeah.

[564] Do you have a Jewish attorney?

[565] I do not have a Jewish attorney.

[566] Yeah, I should get one.

[567] All right.

[568] I'm sure there's some Irish attorneys that are awesome too.

[569] That's a weird one, right?

[570] Like, racism when it's positive, like if you say black guys have big dicks, people get mad at you.

[571] I'm just saying they're awesome.

[572] Like, you know?

[573] That's true.

[574] That's a weird one.

[575] Like, it's not really racist.

[576] Just saying someone's really distilled, like Italians make really good pizza.

[577] Is that racist?

[578] I love pizza.

[579] I do too.

[580] um sorry we got way off track so so put this stuff aside have you have you considered legal action or you know like i said i published this 16 page or this pitching page document that's on my website i sent it to the editor of national geographic um they have acknowledged that they've received it and like i said it's been a holiday weekend so they've had a few days to have it and hopefully they do the right thing you know it is you know ultimately it's defaming it's ultimately painting the wrong picture um is it on like i said it's online their version is in print as well as online or just online oh their article is just online yeah i hope they take it down yeah yeah but the problem is then but if not then someone's already seen it exactly then you know people i mean people like writing on my instagram like you lieer i fucking hate you i hope you dot and you're like whoa man like that you know and that hurts man i'm not gonna i'm a human being like it hurts my feelings to see that particularly when it's about something that's completely not true like people are saying like i heard you took a fucking Uber out there and you like just walked on this road and you're like like you know that's hilarious yeah but you know that is the problem with those kind of articles that right there in a nutshell is that especially people that sort of peripherally look at them exactly you don't really go through it extensively and examine what this guy's saying yeah so hopefully it doesn't come to legal action hopefully they do the right thing here they've reviewed the facts and we can move on dude yeah call a lawyer yeah make it happen um so now you get through this Right?

[581] You write your book and you get in this rowboat journey.

[582] Had the rowboat journey been done before?

[583] So the rowboat before, there's a storied history of ocean rowing.

[584] So ocean rowing, you know.

[585] Sure, the Polynesians.

[586] Yeah.

[587] I mean, it goes way back.

[588] But even kind of as a sport and, you know, maybe the polar community wants to do this more formally.

[589] But there's something called the Ocean Rowing Society that has, you know, the records of different rows going back over time.

[590] there's this race across the Atlantic that happens called the Talisker Ocean Talisker Whiskey Ocean Race across the Atlantic from the or is it go from from the Canary Islands to the Caribbean every winter that happened so ocean rowing it means a subculture it's a small subculture don't get me wrong but it happens like it's a thing you know there's there's boats there's races there's competitions but had anybody gone through that path yeah so Drake Passage had never been rowed fully and completely before there was a guy who's fucking legend as well I wish he was still alive because I'd love to sit down more than anything with this guy.

[591] His name's Ned Gillette, a true, true, like, exploratory.

[592] I mean, actually got killed in the late 90s, I believe, when he was climbing in the Himalayas or in Pakistan.

[593] He got shot by someone who came through the camp.

[594] I don't know the whole story.

[595] It was super sad story.

[596] But he's done all of these projects, you know, before social media and stuff like this, this guy was out there doing these badass things.

[597] And he made this boat called the Sea Tomato, and he took it down to chili to try to kind of do a, what was like kind of a hybrid row and sail and so he has a sailing mast on there he's got oars he's got four guys with him they try it the first season they actually can't even launch their boat off of Cape Horn's they wait a whole other year and then the second year they launched a sea tomato under sale why they have to wait a year because the weather Drake Passage is not we'll get to that but it is gnarly bro like it is like I mean people you say going around the horn people say that in sailing like Cape Horn is known to just be like just treacherous brutal water as the two oceans kind of collide and these huge standing waves come up.

[598] So a whole season, they sat down there with the rowboat and didn't even launch it.

[599] Then the next year came back, him and four guys.

[600] How small is the window where you can make it across?

[601] So basically the best time of year to do it would be December, January, because that's the Southern Hemisphere summer.

[602] And so the temperature is a little bit warmer.

[603] You've got longer days.

[604] We purposefully did it over the summer or the summer solstice.

[605] So December 21st, you know, that'd be June 21st for us in the northern hemisphere, the longest day of the year.

[606] We still had night, you know, a few days, a few hours of darkness every single night, but we at least had the longer days because once it gets dark and there's waves coming at you from every single direction, I mean, it is fucking scary, man. Yeah.

[607] This is it?

[608] This is Drake Passage, obviously, I've seen from a bigger boat than mine, but, you know.

[609] Oh, fuck that.

[610] Can I see what it was like in your boat?

[611] Yeah.

[612] If you pull up my Instagram, if you pull up my Instagram.

[613] How many people die out there?

[614] I mean, I don't know the numbers, but.

[615] A plane crash happened the day we were leaving and 38 people died in a plane crash in Drake Passage as we were out to depart on our rope and that's a whole other crazy story but you know there's that I mean there's shipwrecks out there there's boats that have gone down there was a a cruise ship I think that went down in the 2000s in Drake Passage yeah on a cruise ship I hope I don't get that story completely wrong but I'm pretty sure a big boat went down in the last 10 years or so What the fuck is a cruise ship doing there?

[616] They go to Antarctica They go to the Pennsylvania living in Arnica.

[617] So actually, there's quite a few cruise ships.

[618] Yeah, so here, here's me. So it's actually fairly calm sometimes.

[619] So, I mean, some of the times.

[620] Yeah, you got some swells, but I mean, you'll see this next part.

[621] So this is me in the tiny little cabin.

[622] I mean, waves coming over.

[623] They're crashing this.

[624] So where's the cabin and the, the, where, closest to us?

[625] Yeah, closest to us is the little cabin that I was in.

[626] There was just one of us in there.

[627] And this is, so this is us putting out something called the sea anchor.

[628] That's when the waves got so big or the wind and swell was against us so much that we couldn't row anymore and it's like throwing a parachute that basically like kind of tries to hold you in place.

[629] I mean, you look at the...

[630] How does the sea anchor work?

[631] What is it?

[632] So it's like a huge parachute, basically.

[633] It's in the water?

[634] And you put it in the water and it fills with water and it holds the boat into place.

[635] I mean, not very well.

[636] Even in this, if we had the volume up, it's me basically talking about how we're getting pushed back in the wrong direction, but we can't even, we don't have the strength to row against it anymore, just getting hammered.

[637] Um, but the sea anchor, how far did it push you back?

[638] I think that time it pushed us back like, uh, 15 or 20 miles.

[639] Um, whoa.

[640] Yeah.

[641] So you lose 15 or 20 miles of progress.

[642] Yeah.

[643] And that one, that was the longest anchor, I believe we were on it for 26 hours.

[644] And so what happens is, like, like, you saw on the boat, there's three people rowing.

[645] Three people in the cabins at any given time.

[646] And the cabins are tiny when you're even with the, you know, one person in one side like I was two and the other side, like you're like smash in there like a sardine.

[647] But then when you put the sea anchor out, no one's rowing anymore.

[648] And that, you know, open decking, it's like really dangerous to just be sitting out there.

[649] So we, all try to get in the cabins but like this Icelandic dude who's the captain fion paul i mean he's like amazing row you know six foot two broad shoulders whatever all of a sudden the two of us are jammed inside of like the smallest little compartment it's like two feet around three feet wide by three feet tall we're like spooning each other we're wet we're cold we're in there for 26 hours that time like how did you guys poop uh so if you look that's me yeah that this one shows kind of the wave the big swell i'm the i'm the one in the back there um and uh i'm i'm sitting sitting right next to a really fancy toilet, a little something called a five -gallon bucket.

[650] Oh, that's what you did.

[651] You pooped in a bucket?

[652] Poopped in a bucket.

[653] Not too fancy.

[654] Yeah.

[655] And then the fish can snack on that.

[656] But, you know, you obviously get, not only were we spooning under sea anchors smashing these little things.

[657] And oftentimes, those other guys in the other compartment, either three, three of them were inside the compartment at a time.

[658] And one would be sitting out and taking shifts or they sometimes smashed four in there.

[659] But, I mean, they're like literally on top of each other.

[660] So we got close.

[661] But then also, obviously, there's no space on the deck so it's like hey man just turn your head away i'm gonna be you know pooping of basically a foot away from you while you row into this bucket like don't mind me those mountain houses will create some horrible smells out of your body i've had those mountain houses while hunting they're rough especially for me because i don't need a lot of carbs yeah there's just it's all like you know it tastes good though they do taste good yeah especially when you're in the middle of the ocean i bet they're delicious i loved them yeah yeah they're really good that that and the bars i was happy with what the eating was good but uh when you're halfway out there was at any point in time where you're like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

[662] Why am I doing this?

[663] Yes, 100%.

[664] So one of the things, like, you know, people have asked me was, you know, solar Antarctica crossing harder in the row or whatever, and it's like they're very different.

[665] But one of the things that was so brutal about this, Antarctica and the crossing was a lot colder than the Drake Passage Row.

[666] It was about average temperature when we were out there was probably like in the low 30s, you know, dipped below a few times.

[667] But the ocean temperature, like I said, it's 32, you know, 33, you know, just above freezing.

[668] there's icebergs in the water and we're getting close to it and you're just getting splashed the entire time so from like minute one hour one leaving Cape Horn we are soaking wet and what kind of equipment are you wearing what kind of gear are you wearing that keeps you from getting really cold so we started out in just this gortex as this thick like sailing vortex basically and that worked pretty well for the first few days but one of the other cool innovations that fion thought of having done so much ocean rowing is he was like dude the only way this is going to work is if we have some sort of dry suit.

[669] It's just too cold, but you start looking at dry suits and you're like, you could never row.

[670] You couldn't be functional like wearing like this like crazy dry suit, right?

[671] And so he basically says he, he spends the year.

[672] One of the things that he did is he found this like Polish manufacturer and we all got our bodies measured, you know, 25, six different measurements and all this and basically created these custom dry suits that were a lot thinner than a typical dry suit, but kept us dry, but also allowed us to have the mobility on the ores and it was really actually built for the sitting position and the leg you know the leg press and the arm motion and all that of rowing um so it was awesome innovation and we got just i mean thank god we had those because we were getting soaked i mean we were getting so so soked out there and in the 90 minutes you would think like oh in the 90 minutes quote unquote rest phase you would get in there you know maybe change clothes or something like that no absolutely not like the we had these suits on we're soaking wet we'd get in the cabin we were all sharing like one sleeping back like I had just one sleeping bag that Fianna and I were alternating.

[673] It's soaking wet after the first day.

[674] It's just like, it's basically like, if I showed you what it looked like in the last day, you'd be like, I wouldn't sit in there for one minute, let alone like try to sleep.

[675] There's like no pill.

[676] There's like water, like the brown water on the bottom, like, and you're just like, you know, it's the smells from us living in and out of there for this.

[677] I mean, it was grimy and wet and cold, but these suits suited us pretty well.

[678] The one thing that was great, you know, obviously we were clipped in for safety.

[679] So we were clipped into basically these ropes that you saw on the edge of there.

[680] So if we were going to get knocked off the boat, hopefully we would be able to clip in or the boat itself actually fully self -right.

[681] So if it rolls over, it hypothetically rolls back over the top.

[682] We had some close calls, but we never fully rolled it, thank God.

[683] But we did test that.

[684] But one of the things about the suits is the suits basically have like neoprene booties.

[685] It's all like one kind of one piece, like you would have in a dry suit, which was awesome for keeping us safe and dry, but I didn't take the suit off for the last six or seven days at all.

[686] And so when I finally took the suit off, my feet, like, you think about your fingers getting, like, prune, maybe, like, you know, in a swimming pool for a couple hours or hot tub or something like that.

[687] Like, imagine seven days of wet and cold and sweat and, like, all the things.

[688] Like, when I took the suit off, like, I almost threw up on the ground because it was just, like, gnarly festering skin.

[689] And, like, skin was ripping off of my feet.

[690] Like, it was nasty.

[691] How long it took you to recover from that?

[692] Um, I don't know.

[693] exactly it's hard to put the point on like oh i'm recovered but definitely took a few weeks to just kind of get everything back you know that's the stability back in the body mind all of that so uh yeah yeah it was uh it was interesting for sure what are you gonna do next because i know you're one of those dudes you have to keep doing these things i don't know once you've done two of these things you're gonna keep doing these things yeah i did a couple before that too um but uh i think last time your advice to me was stop.

[694] Stop while your life.

[695] Yeah.

[696] But you didn't listen.

[697] Obviously, so don't listen to me anymore anyway.

[698] Just keep doing what you've got to do.

[699] You know, look, like, I'm passionate about these things.

[700] It's super fun.

[701] I do them because I like testing the edges of my potential.

[702] I like exploring different places.

[703] Like I'd never, like I said, I'd never rode a boat before and that kind of take this project on and say, you know, I've done expeditions before.

[704] I've pushed my body in, you know, deep and interesting ways.

[705] But one of my biggest curiosities is certainly about the mind but you know particularly like growth mindset can i say like i'm not a rower but in the course of a year of training i'm going to train myself up get on a team with some amazingly you know accomplished watermen and learn the skills required to you know make this crossing and it was cool to kind of prove that out this year because i think that that really applies across so many things and i'm just a generally curious person um and i think i'll keep pushing myself and pushing my body because that's one of the things that i love to do but i think that curiosity throughout my life is going to be, you know, a lifelong path of, of diving into sort of different things and taking them on.

[706] I think that to me, one of my biggest sadnesses is one of the things I like to say to people is like, you know, people come to a certain point in at their life and they're like, you know, I'm, I'm a lawyer or I'm good at math or I'm terrible at art or like, I could never do comedy because I'm not the funny one or I'm like, you know, these limiting beliefs inside of us.

[707] It's like, I could be like, dude, I've never rode ever in my life.

[708] I'm, you know, 34 years old, you know, I've never rode a boat, but actually like, But, like, doesn't mean I can't learn now to row a bow.

[709] Seems pretty straightforward.

[710] Yeah, exactly.

[711] How hard could it be?

[712] You get a little leg action, too.

[713] What did you do to prepare for physically?

[714] So, the physical prep was pretty cool.

[715] I don't know if you remember from last time, but I have this coach.

[716] His name is Mike McHastle, and he's just this legendary guy.

[717] He's, you know, done 5 ,800 pull -ups in 24 hours.

[718] He's pulled a truck across Death Valley nights.

[719] Yeah, I remember.

[720] Yeah, he's a total, total legend.

[721] And he trained me up for Antarctica.

[722] I mean, I came to him and I said, hey, look, like, I'm not the most experienced polar explorer.

[723] I got to pull this 375 pounds lead.

[724] Like, what do you think?

[725] How can you train me up?

[726] And he came up with such cool training methodologies for that.

[727] Like, he had one of the things he had me doing for Antarctica was he had me, you know, I was doing planks with my hands in ice buckets.

[728] And, you know, as my heart rate's getting jacked up, he's having me hold that.

[729] And all of a sudden, he's like, all right, get out.

[730] And I do in a wall sit.

[731] But now my feet are in the ice buckets.

[732] and he puts a weight plate on top of my legs, and he's like, okay, and then he hands me these Legos, and he's like, solve these Lego problems, until you don't solve this Lego and build this little, like, you know, aircraft, a Lego man or whatever, you know, you can't get your feet out of the ice bucket, like, what the hell is going on?

[733] But he's like, look, you're going to be in Antarctica, your life is going to depend on you securing your tent right or tying down the ropes properly or this and that, and the other thing.

[734] You're going to be cold.

[735] Your hands are going to be frozen.

[736] You're going to be tired, but you're going to need your mind and your dexterity to be there.

[737] Yeah, there's a picture of that, of Mike bringing me through that.

[738] And so with the row, it was super cool to come to him again and say like, hey, man, like, there's no blueprint for this.

[739] Like, there's no blueprint for this.

[740] There's no one that's done a fully human power crossing of Drake Passage before to the Antarctic Peninsula.

[741] Like, there's some ocean rowers, but this is different.

[742] Like, how should we prepare for this?

[743] And Mike, it's not like he's like, well, I know everything about ocean rowing, but that same curiosity, that same growth mindset, I trust his, you know, sort of ability to train me. I don't know, man. Like, let's start thinking through this.

[744] And so in the gym, I mean, we did all sorts of creative things.

[745] He brought the ice back.

[746] He started putting a rowing machine on bosu balls, like half bosu balls, basically.

[747] And I'd start rowing, you know, to the normal rowing motion.

[748] But he'd start shaking it around because basically the ocean is going to be moving me around so much.

[749] So just the rowing motion isn't going to prepare me for the lateral movements, you know, the, the, the lats, the obliques, you know, all the kind of side -to -side stability stuff.

[750] Then he took it one step further, which is he actually shows up in my house.

[751] knocks on my door at 2 o 'clock in the morning, I think he had prearranged it with my wife, knocks on the door, and he's like, get up, and I'm like, what, what's happening?

[752] He's like, we're going, we're training right now, and he gets me, he's got those Bosu balls, but now it's the middle of the night, so I'm sleep deprived, I'm kind of disoriented.

[753] Now he's got me on the Bosu balls, and he had brought these buckets of ice water.

[754] So I'm rowing this thing, it's shaking around.

[755] It's the middle of night, and he starts throwing ice water on me, and we're doing these laps.

[756] Yeah, here I am, you know, getting into this.

[757] the yeah you could check these out the discovery channel did back it says training for the Drake the Impossible Row episode 3 you could find it online Jamie it's on the Discovery channel YouTube page YouTube they have a whole playlist with all these videos yeah so there's 14 of these videos training all the way through the whole project discovery put them online they're actually doing a feature link documentary this spring but yeah what did you do for rowing for the specific muscles of rowing yourself did you lift weights did you do rows did you use a rowing machine would you use yeah so the rowing machine on the bosa ball that's like in the gym.

[758] Also a lot of deadlift was really useful.

[759] And then a lot of stability stuff.

[760] So Mike would have me do certain things like we'd have, you know, like a seated row or something like that or monathons.

[761] I thought that was the most interesting because it was going to be destable.

[762] So the waves are usually coming from, they change directions, but at any given time they're coming generally from one direction.

[763] So you're either leaning in really hard to your left side.

[764] You're leaning in really hard to your right side.

[765] That's a different to the ocean rowing than just like a pure river rowing.

[766] And, you know, he would have me basically like holding imagine like a like a like a deadlift bar and then I'd have my eyes closed I'd be holding it there in kind of an isometric motion and then he would pull the plate a light plate off one of the sides and so I'd have to stabilize and catch you know either my left side or my right side so a lot of stabilization and balance stuff and then the other piece that was huge you know Mike you know admittedly doesn't know a lot about rowing specifically in terms of the technique of rowing and the technique of rowing is actually very specific and so a friend of mine a guy named Chris Wojda from Portland.

[767] I called him up and he's like this champion rower, a collegiate rower rowing coach.

[768] And he took me out on the Willamette River in Portland in a single man like rowing skull.

[769] So very different than an ocean robot.

[770] You know, ocean robot's a lot bigger, different, different waves.

[771] But he taught me on the river the actual purity of the rowing motion.

[772] So a lot of the training and the physical aspects I'm getting stronger was with Mike and the mindset and the ice and all the things we did there.

[773] But certainly the stuff that we did on the river in the Willamette with Chris was huge for me to actually understand the motion because just like you when you were like, how hard can it be?

[774] You just kind of push your arms, you know, back and forth.

[775] It's a pretty complicated motion.

[776] It's a full -body thing.

[777] It's a very coordinated thing.

[778] You know, you're powering out of different things and certainly on river rowing, you're having to, you know, square, it's called squaring the blades and, you know, you've got to take some the blades out of the water and, you know, turning them so they just glide across the top and get back in and glide and all that kind of stuff.

[779] So there's a lot to the motion.

[780] And so it was a short period of time.

[781] I didn't take my first stroke in a rowboat until July in the river.

[782] And then August in the ocean robot when we came together as a team for the first time to train in Scotland.

[783] And then I was rowing across the Drake in December.

[784] So it was a pretty short period of time to kind of learn about rowing and get stronger.

[785] But it was a fun process to dive into something completely new.

[786] So all from August, September, October, November, into December.

[787] Did you train and row all the time?

[788] Um, you know, quite a lot, but there was other things going on.

[789] I was writing this, I was writing this, I was writing the book at the same time.

[790] Yeah, I ran the book at the same time.

[791] You know, I was traveling doing doing different things.

[792] Um, but, uh, it wasn't like I was like every day.

[793] I was always doing is rowing 10 hours a day or something like that.

[794] There was, uh, you know, other things going on.

[795] But I'd imagine you would need some pretty spectacular endurance to do that 90 minutes on the hour every 90 minutes.

[796] Yeah.

[797] So you got 90 minutes on, 90 minutes on, 90 minutes on, 90 minutes off.

[798] How did you guys devise that strategy for doing it that way?

[799] Just to do that.

[800] to not burn yourselves out too much but yeah so like i said fionn you know has you know a lot of ocean rowing experience and from his other expeditions we kind of collectively talked about it as a team and he was just like okay you know this is what he felt has worked the best for people to you know do a long stretch get enough rest but you know obviously maybe the first day or two you think oh i could row for four hours at a time or something like that and then you get longer stretch of rest but over time like your body really starts to wear it down and so he kind of you know felt that was the happy balance and it definitely like i mean i was delirious we were all delirious and sleep deprived and it got weird out there for sure but i think it was the best my body actually held up pretty well and i felt like it was yeah it was a wild like the things going on in my mind the the night time like the night shift was really crazy so at the night the light nights weren't super long you got about three hours of darkness every single night but that meant at least one 90 minute shift was complete darkness and so i know where you're going that that part is like, I mean, it's weird enough to be out in this tiny little boat bobbing around in the middle of the ocean, knocking back and forth.

[801] But all of a sudden, it gets completely dark and, like, you can see nothing.

[802] And so waves kind of come out out of nowhere.

[803] It's very, very disorienting.

[804] I was rowing.

[805] So on my shift, it was myself, a guy named Jamie, who's from Scotland, and a guy named Cam Bellamy, a South African guy who, I got a funny story about him.

[806] He's absolute legend.

[807] So there's a three of us out there rowing on our shift.

[808] And the other shift was Andrew, John, and Fion.

[809] And on our shift, in the middle of the night, I don't know how it started, but it was on the first nights that we were out there.

[810] It's kind of like, you've been rowing all day, and then all of a sudden, now you're wet and cold and it's dark.

[811] Like, it's just like, this sucks.

[812] Like, those moments when you're, like, having your lowest moments.

[813] And we, you know, you might make fun of me, but we started singing, man. We just started singing out there.

[814] I don't know.

[815] I didn't make funny you for rolling across the ocean.

[816] Yeah, there you go.

[817] You know, we started singing.

[818] Like, I think I just started belting out one day.

[819] You know, I was actually born on a hippie commune.

[820] My mom played Bob Marley Redemption song throughout my entire birth.

[821] There's like, you know, people watch my birth on my futon.

[822] So I started like, oh pirates, yes, they rabbi, sold I to the merchant shifts.

[823] We're just belted it out.

[824] I mean, my voice is terrible, but we're having fun.

[825] Did you hate these guys by the end of the trip?

[826] You know, no, it was intense.

[827] I mean, working.

[828] Did anybody hate you?

[829] I don't know.

[830] You have to ask them, I guess.

[831] No, no, we honestly, it was a crazy social experiment.

[832] We've got guys from four different countries, three different countries.

[833] continent no one knows each other super well few of them um had done a project before in the past so they they know each other a bit better but in general um we weren't you know it's not like it was six guys we're like oh we've done a bunch of stuff together we're bros we all hang out um and it really you know required some really diligent um kind of human dynamics to bring it all together one of the things we came together in scotland and august and we rode for the first time that's the first time we all met each other we came together that's where our robot was we were getting it custom and built and built out.

[834] And then that was the only time we saw each other in person.

[835] We got these Skype calls and stuff.

[836] And then we got down to Punta Rana, which is where we staged it out of in Chile, in Southern Chile there.

[837] That's kind of we got our robo.

[838] We imported it.

[839] We're getting everything going.

[840] And those 10 days in preparation were some of the absolute hardest of the entire project.

[841] Getting to the start line, right?

[842] And, you know, there's gear everywhere.

[843] We're trying to figure out how it all fits.

[844] Like, you know, how we're going to fit all this food in here?

[845] in our personal gear and there's nowhere this.

[846] We're trying to pack the boat and like, you know, tensions are elevated.

[847] Everyone's just kind of like nervous, like the reality of what we're about to do is setting in.

[848] And, um, you know, there was kind of some, some breaking points.

[849] And to credit where credits do, one of the guys named Andrew Town, absolute amazing guy.

[850] Um, he's actually a management consultant.

[851] So he's like a lawyer businessman management consultant.

[852] And, uh, he's like, he's like facilitates all these conversations in his work.

[853] And he sits us down.

[854] He goes, hey, guys, like, we need to have like a real conversation about like teamwork and what.

[855] are going on because there's six of us in this tiny little boat life on the lines we come from different cultures different backgrounds different things like let's set some intentions and you know at first I think we're maybe a little bit skeptical but he sits this down and we have this conversation about like you know let's talk let's talk real like what are our real fears going into this like what are our vulnerabilities what are our weaknesses how can we trust one another and you know we all were very honest with one another and I think it really set the tone for the entire thing one of the guys is the school principal he's got a two -year -old daughter at home and he's like hey guys like I want to do this like I want to be a part of this project but like here's some of my fears you know and for me I'm like look like we got to have a communication we got to be able to stay to each other for having a bad day we got to just be on it's like hey I'm not having a good day but it's not because like I'm a bad person you know we got to support one another and really having that facilitated conversation as a team early on before we were out in the water and the intensity I think carried us through and I'm so so so so grateful to Andrew facilitated that conversation because that was a really turning point in the group dynamics and so the Discovery Channel was their idea for this thing?

[856] Did they come to you guys?

[857] Yeah, so the whole discovery thing is really cool part of this.

[858] So basically what happens, Fionn had the idea for it, this legendary ocean rower, but the component parts of pulling it all together really complicated.

[859] One of the reasons is because the, so say you owned a yacht or something like that, and you're like, you know what, Colin, I want to take my yacht to Antarctica.

[860] like that's not really something that you can just do there's a whole bunch of environmental protections and laws and things like that there's like specific boats that have like permating that's called this called the iato treaty and it's basically what governs like tourism in Antarctica and the reason they do that is because of sort of environmental concerns in Antarctica and it's a really good thing but turns out like my ocean row boat is not like part of like the full treaty of Antarctica and so the only way to do it and be like well within the rules and like above board within everything that's going on in Antarctica all the environmental protection is to have one of the IATO certified boats there and a part of this.

[861] And so what we realized is we needed what was called a supervising vessel, not a vessel that would, you know, give us support in the middle and hang out with us and we could jump off and take a hot shower, but a boat that's basically overseeing the totality of the project and also has like us being like fully permitted throughout that.

[862] And so we're like, okay, like that's interesting.

[863] There's going to be this other boat out there.

[864] We got to figure out who this is.

[865] It's super expensive.

[866] We've got to raise the money to make sure we can have that, you know, all these types of things, the only way it can work.

[867] We kind of got set to work on doing that.

[868] Myself, my wife, Jenna, she builds these projects with me, Blake, who works with me and a bunch of people kind of working on kind of the details of it.

[869] And we quickly realized, like, wow, what an amazing opportunity.

[870] If we have this other boat out there, we can film this thing.

[871] And I've wanted to film some of my projects and share them really widely before.

[872] But when you're walking across Antarctica, dragging a 375 pound sled, and the whole purpose of the goal was to be sold.

[873] It's not like you can have like a cameraman just like hanging out there, like shooting you.

[874] You know, I mean, although there's just a road, so there's just people hanging out there.

[875] L .O .L. L .O .L. But basically, that's when we said, hey, like, let's see if someone will be interested in coming on as a media partner of this and really filming this and sharing this in a big way.

[876] And so we got to talking with Discovery.

[877] They got on board of it.

[878] And it was a really cool vision.

[879] It was kind of a combined vision of theirs and ours through all my other projects.

[880] I mentioned the GPS through my last, you know, Antarctica Crossing and my other previous.

[881] World Records before.

[882] I always carry this GPS and share it in real time.

[883] I have this nonprofit where you know, during the row there were 600 ,000 school kids and school curriculums.

[884] We built around like ocean and environmental learning and stuff like that all incorporated into the kind of daily following along with the science and curriculum.

[885] So I always wanted to share the projects in real time.

[886] And so we talked to Discover and they're like, this is super cool.

[887] Let's do three different things at once here.

[888] So we invest in all the satellite technology with Arridium, the Arridium satellites.

[889] And they were able to basically allow us to do social media during the time.

[890] So if you're, like, sitting at home on Christmas Day as we're arriving in Antarctica, like you watching me bouncing around on this, you know, a rowboat, you can follow the whole thing.

[891] And then who's doing this?

[892] The other boat?

[893] So, yeah, they have the satellites on the other boat, but we have, I'm shooting the social meeting and the content on my boat.

[894] And the other boat is powered how?

[895] It's a proper, it's like a normal, it's like a hundred and 20 foot, like, boat with, like, a proper engine and stuff like that.

[896] Well, that's nice that they were with you, too.

[897] So, yeah.

[898] So, yeah.

[899] So, yeah.

[900] So, um, definitely had that as the, they never, they never, didn't tell them to carry the food, too.

[901] because so the unsupported part of the project like means the second we launched like they couldn't touch it if they touched us in you know catastrophic it's over that's the end of the thing um and so uh my wife my wife was on board that she runs all the best projects for me in the background names that she was actually so she crossed the drake in this larger boat which by for drake passage standards is still a much smaller boat um there's six guys you know who were five guys who ran the boat and then five guys on the discovery film crew but they rigged our ocean row boat up with all these go pros and batteries and all this kind of stuff so we were completely self -sufficient on the boat itself and just had to like switch out memory cards and stuff for ourselves.

[902] But what ended up happening is there was a social media component happening live.

[903] And then what Jamie just pulled up in the video of me training, there's these 14 episodes on Discovery Go that are online right now and they're all like five to 10 minutes long that kind of tell the story in midform episodes, which is cool because that was coming out concurrently.

[904] So while we were out there, they were putting these piece of content sent up by the satellites that people could see.

[905] And then this spring, a couple months from now, they're going to have a long -form documentary that comes out about the entire thing.

[906] And there's definitely been some really cool footage of ocean rowing expeditions in the past, but to have a boat out there and to be able to shoot it from the perspective of not on the rowboat.

[907] Sometimes on the robot, it's weird.

[908] Like, you've seen boats in really big swells, but because the perspective on the rowboat, it's kind of moving with it.

[909] You can't kind of dwell how big it is.

[910] But I think there's a video of like, actually the last video, maybe I posted on my Instagram, where you can see the boat, or my boat just completely disappearing and going up and down and completely disappearing in the waves.

[911] And they're able to shoot back and get drone footage and all this sort of stuff.

[912] So the feature link documentaries to come out in a couple months will be really cool on Discovery.

[913] That's awesome.

[914] It's just a crazy thing that you've done and it begs the question.

[915] When you do crazy things, like does this change you as a person?

[916] Does like walk across Antarctica is one, rowing across the Drake stretch, as it was called?

[917] Drake Passage is another.

[918] Like, is this changing you as a person?

[919] person like what are these because these are experiences where you told someone hey you're going to sleep 90 minutes um at a clip and then you're going to row for 90 minutes and you're going to poop into a bucket and you're going to sleep like a sardine with a bunch of other dudes on this boat you're not going to sleep much you're probably going to hallucinate sometimes you're going to row in the dark sing songs yeah you'll get through it though a couple weeks later you'll be done yeah like these these are weird things that you're doing that sort of changing Your personal life experiences are so much more extreme than the average persons.

[920] Yeah, 100%.

[921] I mean, you know, one of my reasons for doing this, for sure, is to test the limits of my own potential and grow.

[922] I'm not doing them just to like, so that I can be the exact same person on the other side of Antarctica, the other side of Drake Passage.

[923] It's to take that learning.

[924] And, you know, I've been asked like a similar question, I guess, before.

[925] And my answer, or the way that I kind of think about it is I've started to think about life, like the, I mean, I've started thinking about life and the totality of life experience between, like, say, a numerical one and ten.

[926] Like, one being the worst day of your life and ten being the best day of your life.

[927] And, you know, one might be, you know, a day that a family member passes away.

[928] Or one might be being wet and cold and freezing in an ocean rowboats, you know, spooning with this other guy and, you know, been shit in a bucket and being exhausted and tired, you know, like just like rough moments in your life, right?

[929] And ten is this hedonistic joy, the most pleasure -filled day ever, just happy, joyful.

[930] maybe you've succeeded in something you've accomplished like all this kind of stuff and as i've kind of looked around at the world people say what are you afraid of you must not be afraid of being alone or you must not be afraid of you know these hard challenges or stuff like that i'm like mom maybe not but what i'm really afraid of is actually living a life range bound between four and six i think too often people you know the typical life experience unfortunately because we have some creaser comforts particularly in the western world where you know you can live a life and you're stuck between between four and six.

[931] So maybe the happiest day of your year or your week, it's like the Super Bowl and your team wins a Super Bowl and you crush a couple beers with your buddy and you high five and you're like, oh, that was awesome.

[932] Like that was cool.

[933] But it's not 10.

[934] I mean, it's a six.

[935] And then like maybe the worst day of your week, it's like a Monday and your boss yells at you or something like that.

[936] And you're just like, you're like, oh man, like that's kind of bummer.

[937] But you know what?

[938] I don't really give a shit about my job anyway.

[939] So like I'm not really that bummed about it.

[940] It just like is.

[941] I'm just kind of like in this like life of like quiet desperation in the middle.

[942] And I think a lot of that has to do it because we're hedging and we're afraid of.

[943] of the ones.

[944] We're just like, I don't want to experience a one.

[945] I don't want to experience discomfort.

[946] I don't want to experience pain.

[947] Like anything to do that.

[948] But what I've realized, I think of it like kind of a pendulum, like swinging the totality of life experience.

[949] Like, to get to the tens, you also need to embrace the ones.

[950] Like the totality of life in the experience, it's not, I'm not experiencing these high highs or these hedonistic joys or these beautiful flow states or things like that, you know, in spite of the ones, in spite of the challenge, but it's because of them.

[951] Yeah.

[952] By pulling my sled you know 53 days on my 53rd day of pulling my sled across san arctica i get there my hips are poking out my ribs are sticking out i'm exhausted i can barely pick my duffel bag up to put it in my sled my body's completely compromised i'm exhausted but then i tap into the deepest flow state of my entire life i find this place in my mind in my body and my soul and you know i pushed 32 hours without stopping to the finish line and i wouldn't have gotten there had i not pushed myself had i not gone through this difficulty.

[953] I like to say that, you know, pain is mandatory.

[954] These challenges are painful.

[955] Straight up.

[956] Pain is mandatory.

[957] Make no mistake about this.

[958] The obvious things I'm doing are painful.

[959] They're hard, whatever.

[960] But the suffering part is optional.

[961] Yeah.

[962] You know, you don't have to be in these moments so wanting to be like, oh my God, this is horrible.

[963] I'm in this.

[964] And why did I get myself out there?

[965] It's a terrible blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[966] And go down this path.

[967] You're like, I'm doing this because when I step outside of my comfort zone, I grow.

[968] And as I grow, I can share that with other people and hopefully have that ripple effect of positivity and inspiration that's lasting in the world for others as well.

[969] Yeah, you mentioned one of my favorite quotes ever, the Thoreau quote.

[970] Most men live lives of quiet desperation.

[971] I love that.

[972] Yeah.

[973] That's a great fucking quote.

[974] It's so damn true.

[975] I think you're right.

[976] I think you really need very difficult things in your life in order to appreciate real comfort and relaxation.

[977] Absolutely.

[978] I don't think you hit it if you just, if your whole life is just soft cushions and everything's made out of allure and people are feeding you grapes I think you live like an asshole yeah I think you know we don't like that because no one really suffering is hard it's hard it feels uncomfortable but you don't realize that unless you suffer you don't appreciate calm you don't appreciate peace I think there's just far too many people out there seeking comfort I agree with that and I think that it's funny because people are going towards that they're hedging against discomfort like okay how to make this as comfortable as possible and then they sit there and they're like why am I unsatisfied why Why am I not happy?

[979] And it's like because you're hedging against discomfort, because you're trying to make, like you said, it's poor education, really.

[980] People are not educated on what it takes in order to be fulfilled in life.

[981] The idea is that material possessions or some modicum of success is the goal.

[982] It's not.

[983] You know, difficult tasks is what make you do something that's hard to do.

[984] Do something that's interesting.

[985] Do something that's complicated and intricate.

[986] Do something that requires you to stretch your boundaries.

[987] Absolutely.

[988] So that's why I'm asking you, because you're doing, you're stretching your boundaries into some weird life, you know, death -defying sort of thing.

[989] You know, you've done two of these so far.

[990] Like, what is next?

[991] You're going to do ultramarathons.

[992] You're going to try to climb mountains.

[993] Like, what are you going to do?

[994] I know you got something going on.

[995] I, I did a big mountaineering project before any of this, for these last two projects.

[996] I did something called the Explorist Grand Slam.

[997] So I climbed the tallest mountain on each of the seven continents and went to the north and south pole for the last degree of latitude.

[998] than anyone's done that.

[999] So I was 139 days back in 2016.

[1000] So Everest, Denali, Kiliman Draw, et cetera, back to back.

[1001] The next actual physical project that I have, it's not some world record -breaking thing or anything, but my wife, so one of the things that we do, we have this nonprofit, as I mentioned, and love speaking to young people, kind of opening their minds of the outdoors and being stewards of the land and really inspiring young people to think about, you know, doing hard things and testing themselves and doesn't have to be in the outdoors at all.

[1002] It could be anything, music, art, culture, whatever it is, but to aim high in their life.

[1003] And one question we started asking young people was this question, which is, what's your Everest?

[1004] You know, it's a really obvious metaphor for kids.

[1005] It's like, you know, what's your big goal?

[1006] You know, what is your Everest?

[1007] And kids are amazing in a gymnasia.

[1008] You know, kids raise their hand going, you know, my Everest would be the first person of my family to graduate from college or, you know, whatever amazing things kids, you know, dream of and help facilitate them towards those goals.

[1009] But about a year ago now, my wife, who's not, you know, didn't grow up, you know, climbing mountains, didn't grow up as an avid athlete or anything.

[1010] She's been wildly supportive of the work we've done.

[1011] A lot of the book is really about our love story and building these projects together.

[1012] But she looks at me and she goes, Colin, my Mount Everest is now to climb Mount Everest.

[1013] And so we are going back in April.

[1014] I've climbed Mount Everest once before from the Nepal -E side, but we're going to go back and climb Everest will be there in April and May of this year.

[1015] So in a couple of months to climb Mount Everest from the north side.

[1016] And really for me, that's to be a support.

[1017] support a facilitator of her goal.

[1018] So the next thing I'm doing kind of in the athletic or outdoor space is actually to support Jenna in climbing, literally her Mount Everest being Mount Everest.

[1019] And it's really cool to see her, you know, just someone so close to me, commit to a goal.

[1020] It's an audacious goal for her.

[1021] For her back, I mean, she's amazing.

[1022] She's strong.

[1023] She's fit.

[1024] She's trained.

[1025] She's ready.

[1026] But like just like six months ago, I never rode a boat, you know, a year ago, yeah, she's climbed some big mountains.

[1027] But to say, hey, I want to climb Mount Everest was a massive goal for her.

[1028] Do you think you're going to do stuff together, like do some death -defying thing together?

[1029] Are you going to get her addicted to this shit now?

[1030] You know, I think we'll see.

[1031] I think for her, this, I don't want to say it's one and done, but I'm sure that, you know, I don't think she has the huge desire to keep doing these types of thing.

[1032] I think the next journey for both of us, probably after that, is a parenthood, having kids.

[1033] Yeah, that's a journey.

[1034] That's a whole other journey.

[1035] Ever seems very commercialized now, right?

[1036] I watched some of the footage of the...

[1037] From the pictures and stuff like that.

[1038] line of people trying to summit it's it's a weird thing now yeah so that's from the south side that's the side that i climbed in 2016 from Nepal that was that photograph was taken from that what a wild and bizarre thing that was um say the least um yeah so on the north side um there's less crowds what we be climbing from um but also that day i mean look that i don't have the answer to the problem that certainly was a problematic thing that happened up there it's kind of a weird perfect storm a little bit where it was actually really stormy for a while and then people got delayed and the ropes were delayed getting in and all of a sudden there's one good day and everyone goes at the same time so again I don't know what the solution is but everyone going up at the same time on the same day on one day in May it's obviously clearly based on that picture like not the answer yeah people did die that day I don't know the exact count but people did die that day because they got stuck out there and couldn't move one way or the other yeah when I was climbing in 2016 it was actually a somewhat crowded day nothing like that photo, but it was a more crowded day.

[1039] And I was climbing with a shirper by the name of Passang Bodie, an incredibly strong guy when we summited together.

[1040] It was his seventh time on the summit, just an absolute legend.

[1041] And him and I talked about it, and we were behind all these people.

[1042] And we actually made the decision, you know, we taught, he said, you know, we got a way that kind of pros and cons here.

[1043] If we stay behind people, you're moving as slow as the slowest person in this line.

[1044] And it's just like you've seen those photos.

[1045] It's just not a great situation.

[1046] It's cold.

[1047] You can get frostbite and all that kind of stuff.

[1048] And so we actually made the choice to, unclip from the ropes, the fixed rope there on the first half of the summit day all the way up to a section called the balcony.

[1049] We actually climbed unroped, but beside the people, because we actually made the call that we said, you know, actually climbing unroped of this section felt safer, you know, risking a slip or a bad fall with no ropes, felt safer than being stuck behind some other people.

[1050] And then eventually it did get too stap and two falling off.

[1051] Yeah, that's a photo that NIMS die took.

[1052] That's a crazy picture.

[1053] I never saw anything like that.

[1054] And that's, I mean, that's definitely the exception, not the rule on Everest, but the fact that that exists is just horrible.

[1055] I mean, there's horrible.

[1056] I mean, there's nothing good to say about that other than it's just, it's tragic for sure.

[1057] So, you know, I think that, again, I don't know what the solution is.

[1058] I'm proud of Jenna for setting this goal and, you know, I think that people should, you know, set that goal.

[1059] I think people, if that's what they want to do, great.

[1060] If they want to climb mountains, if they want to do anything, if I don't want to stop people from doing that.

[1061] But certainly a situation like that where people are stuck on ropes and dying.

[1062] in a situation where that shouldn't happen like that is a terrible thing so um this book the impossible first it's out now people can go get it right yeah it's out now it came out a month ago are you going to write a book about your rowboat experience as well do you think i should why not fuck it the book it's also an audio book so if you don't like reading and you like listening instead you got audiobook i narrated it myself yeah yeah i narrated it myself uh it's out it came out a month ago just hit the new york times best salaries list so um yeah yeah well congratulations um Um, don't die.

[1063] Come back again.

[1064] Next time you do something else, crazy.

[1065] Yeah, you've got it, man. You're happy to talk to you about?

[1066] Good?

[1067] No?

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] Jamie looked over at me like something's going on.

[1070] Uh, so the impossible first.

[1071] It's out right now.

[1072] Go get it, folks.

[1073] Thanks, Colin.

[1074] Yeah, appreciate it.

[1075] Thanks very much, man. Thank you.