#1335 - Jim Gaffigan

[0] Ladies and gentlemen, one of the greats, Jim Gaffkin.

[1] How are you, sir?

[2] Thank you.

[3] Thank you.

[4] It's great to be here.

[5] Great to see you, man. I'm excited that you're doing a special on Amazon.

[6] Yeah.

[7] I think it's important that there's a bunch of other platforms for all of us to do specials on.

[8] And when a guy like you goes over to Amazon legitimizes it, makes it a big deal, it's exciting.

[9] Yeah, it's fascinating how the outlets for specials has changed so dramatic.

[10] because when we were when we were kids it was just HBO yeah and then Comedy Central when I released Beyond the Pale it was that perfect moment where uh in every dorm room in America Comedy Central was on yep you know it had shifted from MTV to Comedy Central probably because of Chappelle and and John Stewart and so but it shifts you know it's like the Netflix was big and and we see these other platforms coming out so it'll be it'll be interesting if i can convince people because everyone goes to amazon or someone in their family does so if i can convince them the next time they're buying paper towels and socks to just go over to prime because everyone has a prime membership that's a weird part about it right it's like it's shopping but it's also like the same as iTunes it yeah people have asked me, they're like, what if, you know, one person asked me, they're like, what if someone doesn't have a prime membership?

[11] And I'm like, then they're probably not on the internet.

[12] Yeah, who are you?

[13] Right.

[14] They probably can't afford even, you know, high speed internet.

[15] So it's like, but I don't know.

[16] It is going to be interesting.

[17] I've watched stuff on prime, but it's like, it's like every time you, you know, I think comedians, we like the, we like to explore and do things different.

[18] You know, even, you know, new rooms and stuff like that, we kind of are risk -averse, but there is always the possibility of, like, I don't know.

[19] I mean, it comes out Friday.

[20] There is some support, but I don't know, and I know that Amazon is this enormous company, but I don't know.

[21] I don't know.

[22] They could, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, you know my special is really not that big it's not as important as the toothpicks they sell on amazon so i don't know if they're going to get behind it or not it's so weird that it's an entertaining company and also a massive shopping outlet i mean it's huge it's two giant things but they they do support like mrs mazel i see that everywhere yeah so if they have a hit they will get behind it and make billboards and i've see a lot for uh flea bag as well I've seen a bunch of ads for that So I think they're really picking up their support But I haven't seen any support so far for How many specials are there that they've done besides yours?

[23] Yours comes out Friday Mine comes out Friday And then a week later There's four that come out And Alonzo Bowden has one coming out for sure And there's three other people with him And then I don't know There's also something of you know, the flow of information isn't as dynamic as you'd imagine.

[24] Because I'm like a nerd for, like, if people follow me on Instagram, they're probably like, yeah, we know you promote.

[25] So it's like, I'm not shy about saying, I'm coming to Atlantic City.

[26] And so I'm like, hey, when is this going?

[27] You know, how can I help in there to like, there's a little bit of an attitude of like, we've got it.

[28] You know what I mean?

[29] We know all the information there is, or they don't care.

[30] I'm not sure.

[31] Yeah, I think they're probably overwhelmed, right?

[32] It's probably a new thing.

[33] Or they just, you know, some of how it was explained to me was I released Nobelate, my special before this, independently, you know, through a lot of different platforms.

[34] Why did you decide to do that?

[35] Well, some of it was I got an offer that was attractive.

[36] I knew that I mean I I love Netflix I have five specials there but I kind of looked at Netflix I always describe it as it's a it's a swimming pool swimming pools are great you know a special having a special is kind of like a floaty but like Netflix there were just hundreds of floaties in this in this pool so how do you know people are going to watch yours you get like a week at Netflix for accessibility.

[37] And I also thought that it would have a greater impact internationally.

[38] I don't think it did for me personally.

[39] And it was something to try differently.

[40] You know what's weird to is you never really know what the numbers are.

[41] No, you don't know the numbers.

[42] They don't tell you.

[43] You don't know the numbers.

[44] And it also shifts.

[45] So like the great success that Segura and Ali Wong had.

[46] And, you know, like we're comedians.

[47] watch all of, uh, the specials on Netflix.

[48] I mean, whether we watch the whole thing is another thing, right?

[49] Yeah.

[50] That's like, with Ted Alexander and I, we're always like, I'm like, did you watch it?

[51] And he goes, I, 10 minutes.

[52] Did you watch the, it's like the best compliment is I watched the whole thing.

[53] I watched Chris Rock's whole special.

[54] Right.

[55] You know, and um, so I wanted to do something different.

[56] You know, I was offered, uh, and it's, it's, you know, it's a, you know, it's expanding your audience.

[57] And I also understood that a lot of people consume things on demand.

[58] Like, I have young kids, so I'm just, I'm still buying on iTunes.

[59] Like, it's 1981, you know, and people consume things on demand.

[60] I was convinced on that.

[61] And so it went, we did this kind of like everywhere but Netflix.

[62] And then there was a second window that was on Amazon Prime.

[63] And, It got a real, a lot of viewers.

[64] And so that prompted Amazon to approach for this special.

[65] So independently, when you released your last one, did it like a production company come to you and say, hey, Jim, this is what we wanted, yeah.

[66] It was comedy dynamics.

[67] And they were like, we're going to distribute it.

[68] We're going to sell it piecemeal different places.

[69] And so I was like, yeah, you know what I wanted on airplanes.

[70] Right, right.

[71] And I, you know, I have Netflix.

[72] but not everyone has Netflix.

[73] And also, you know, the swimming pool metaphor.

[74] It can get kind of lost in there.

[75] So yours was available on Apple TV.

[76] It was available on everything.

[77] It was available on everywhere.

[78] Yeah.

[79] It was even in theaters.

[80] Do you get a sense of the numbers from them?

[81] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[82] So Netflix is the only one that doesn't give you the numbers.

[83] Yeah.

[84] Supposedly, Amazon will give the numbers.

[85] Supposedly.

[86] I think they would.

[87] You got to get in a room with them.

[88] I think that they, um, You know, it's, it's going to be so interesting because I have no idea.

[89] But I also, you know, just as how we consume specials has changed, I think that, you know, getting, I think specials serve almost, they're very personal for us, right?

[90] By the way, your last one was great.

[91] Thanks.

[92] But it's very personal for us.

[93] But it also indirectly serves as like an infomercial for our sensibility.

[94] Yeah, for sure.

[95] So it's like you want other people to see it so that they can go, yeah, I like this kind of stuff.

[96] And so the appeal of it being in different places was appealing to me. Yeah, I like the idea of it too.

[97] I mean, I really do enjoy that Netflix has gotten so big in the stand -up specials because they've given so many people opportunities and exposed the world to so many great comics.

[98] I don't like the fact they don't give you the numbers.

[99] That's so long annoying.

[100] Yeah.

[101] But I do like the fact there's other options now.

[102] I think it's great.

[103] I think, look, HBO now has a streaming option, you know, and there's.

[104] trying to get really behind HBO Go, and hopefully more people will do that.

[105] So HBO specials will be what they used to be.

[106] It used to be if someone got an HBO special, like, holy shit.

[107] It would transform their lives.

[108] Oh, my God, like Kinnison and all these different people, we found out about them because of HBO.

[109] Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting.

[110] I think that, uh, you know, seeing what Disney Plus does and seeing, uh, you know, HBO Max and Apple, but it's, I had, I had approached, uh, um, Amazon back, I think, with my special obsessed, I wanted to do it on Amazon.

[111] They had Prime at that point.

[112] And I was like, you give me this amount of money and you guys own the special.

[113] And they're like, at that point, they weren't, you know, they were a packaged goods company.

[114] They're like, no, we'll give you six cents for every view.

[115] And I'm like, no, no, no, you don't understand.

[116] I'm going to drive people to Amazon .com.

[117] And they're like, nah, we're not interested.

[118] But so it'll take some time.

[119] So, you know, we might think that Apple and Disney will step up immediately for comedy specials.

[120] But we don't know.

[121] We don't know.

[122] I think in the future there's not going to be anything on live television except sports.

[123] I really do.

[124] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[125] TV, like the idea of, like, tuning in at 8 o 'clock on Tuesday night, that's the only time to see something.

[126] Oh, yeah.

[127] It's ridiculous.

[128] No, appointment television is absurd.

[129] That's a great way of putting it.

[130] Yeah.

[131] Appointment television.

[132] Yeah.

[133] It's just, it's insane.

[134] Yeah.

[135] At least date.

[136] And that's one of the other great things about Netflix.

[137] Like when Stranger Things comes out, you get the whole damn season.

[138] Yeah.

[139] Yeah, definitely.

[140] And so, like, the binging thing is really, it's absurd.

[141] Like, there's got to be some consequences of that.

[142] Oh, yeah.

[143] It's unhealthy.

[144] We're just not getting enough sleep.

[145] Now, this, my friend of mine, she told me that she was up watching Stranger Things till 6 o 'clock in the morning.

[146] She had to get up at 10 to take her kid to school.

[147] Yeah.

[148] Yeah, it's just, there's, and we binge it like, like there's some reason behind it.

[149] Yeah.

[150] There's, it's just convenience.

[151] You just get obsessed.

[152] I want to find out what's next.

[153] Oh, my God, they left me hanging.

[154] Yeah.

[155] What's next?

[156] And, like, one more, just one more.

[157] And those suckers that would wait, you know, like, we, my family, I don't want to sound too macho, but we watch Jane the Virgin, because my teenage daughter was really into it.

[158] So as a family, we watched Jane the Virgin.

[159] I don't even know what that is.

[160] It's a TV show.

[161] It's amazing.

[162] I mean, it's one of those things where my family would be watching it and I would come in and I would kind of criticize it.

[163] And then after like two episodes, I was like, move over.

[164] It's totally, it's a telenovela.

[165] It's about Hispanic culture.

[166] It's great.

[167] Name the Virgin?

[168] What's it on?

[169] Great performances.

[170] It was on the CW.

[171] I don't.

[172] Oh, that's hilarious.

[173] I feel like in my adult lifetime, the CW appeared.

[174] And I still have never watched the show on the CW.

[175] Like, have you ever watched the show on the CW?

[176] I don't believe so.

[177] Right.

[178] It's a real network.

[179] Yeah.

[180] But it's like...

[181] Remember the WB?

[182] Yeah.

[183] I think the WB was...

[184] I think the CW is the WB.

[185] Something like that, right?

[186] There was a few of those little fringe networks way back in the day.

[187] Like, I remember the Wayans brothers had a TV show on one of them.

[188] Yeah.

[189] There's...

[190] It's one of those weird networks that was...

[191] I think it was owned by CBS, but they're like...

[192] It's just kind of like...

[193] You know, like it would be teen shows.

[194] like teen romance shows and you like the show Jane the Virgin I liked it I liked it I'm not ashamed to say it You know like if I asked myself Six months ago Would I be on Joe Rogan's podcast Saying that I like Jane the Virgin I would say no of course not Well I remember when You know people used to think that Being on one of those networks Wouldn't do you any good One of those little small networks But then True TV put on in Practical Jokers, and those guys are selling out arenas.

[195] Amazing.

[196] That fucking show is so crazy popular.

[197] It's, you know, it's fascinating watching that show because I, you know, you're trying to understand it because, but I think it's the authenticity of those guys.

[198] They're pals.

[199] And it's not manufactured.

[200] Right.

[201] And I think people like that.

[202] Yes.

[203] It's very appealing.

[204] You're like, you know, and I think that's also like real guys.

[205] Yeah.

[206] I think there is so much beautiful people that we consume so, so much beautiful people that we're shocked when we see a regular looking person.

[207] We're like, wait a minute, what, what, did that person, that person must be a bad guy.

[208] I used to have a joke about that.

[209] They seem like you could hang out with them too.

[210] Yeah.

[211] They seem like regular guys that would be fun to hang out with.

[212] Yeah.

[213] It's like, oh, I want to be with them.

[214] No, like, when I first heard the premise, I was like, oh, this is, but by the way, it's been going on for a while.

[215] Quite a while.

[216] And I was doing shows in London, and we have the same agent, and they were doing an arena three nights in a row in London.

[217] That's crazy.

[218] Crazy.

[219] It's amazing.

[220] Like, who the fuck saw that coming?

[221] When I heard about it from Ari, Ari Shafir was telling me that these guys were selling out theaters.

[222] I was like, really?

[223] I'm like, that's incredible.

[224] I go, how big?

[225] They were like 5 ,000 people.

[226] I was like, what?

[227] Yeah.

[228] What?

[229] And that was years ago.

[230] Now they've moved to arenas.

[231] Yeah.

[232] And they just keep going.

[233] And they have, like, a whole multimedia show, right?

[234] They show videos and all kinds of crazy shit, and they interact with things.

[235] And they're also, like, they're still the same guys.

[236] Yes.

[237] So they were always those guys.

[238] Yeah.

[239] Yeah.

[240] It wasn't like some cute boy who's trying to act like he's, you know, one of the guys.

[241] Right.

[242] Like a record company produced boy band.

[243] Yeah.

[244] Yeah.

[245] No, that's who they are.

[246] Well, that's probably why it resonates with people because it is authentic.

[247] I think so.

[248] I think authenticity is really.

[249] important.

[250] I think that's what people like about.

[251] I think that's the success of this podcast is the authenticity, that it's not prepackaged.

[252] There isn't, um, like, I mean, people that you should understand.

[253] It's like even it's, it's a, it's a weird thing.

[254] I don't know.

[255] I don't know if you want to talk about this or not, so I won't talk about it.

[256] That's a weird thing to me. It's, and I do it.

[257] But like, did you, because I did this back when it was at, um the ice house and it's like it's amazing yeah it's pretty crazy it's pretty crazy yeah who the fuck saw that come in i didn't see it coming yeah it's like it's a perfect example of doing something on your terms and it working out yeah for sure and also zero promotion of it i never promoted it at all i never did any television shows to promote or took out any ads or did other people's podcast to let people know about it.

[258] I just kept doing it.

[259] I just felt like, let me just keep doing it.

[260] I enjoy doing it.

[261] And totally 100 % built by word of mouth.

[262] And so articles that are written about it, do you read those or no?

[263] No. Nothing.

[264] I don't think it's wise.

[265] Because also like generally when there are articles written about comedians, you're kind of, there's always like, all right, let's see what this half day of research.

[266] How they interpreted it.

[267] You know what I mean?

[268] I remember in the 90s, there would be like New York Magazine would be like, the end of stand up comedy.

[269] And you'd read the article and you're like, well, I guess, oh, they followed that person.

[270] They don't even really even do stand up.

[271] Yeah.

[272] So it is, there is no point behind it.

[273] But I'm just kind of a sucker for trying to understand where the zeitgeist is trying to steer things.

[274] But in the end, I think comedy, you know, Seinfeld describes it as like, it all comes down to butts and seats.

[275] Buts and seats.

[276] Like they can kind of promote, you know, like the new best thing.

[277] But, you know, those people show up to shows.

[278] They, you know, they're not told where to go.

[279] I think what's also important to note is that the narrative is no longer being controlled by media.

[280] Like you can't an article in Newsweek or on a website or some YouTube piece, it doesn't define things anymore.

[281] The landscape is too big.

[282] No media outlet has any sort of monopoly on how to define someone or something.

[283] The people decide now.

[284] It's really a meritocracy in that way.

[285] If you have something that's good, people find out about it and they like it.

[286] And you can write all your hit pieces that you want.

[287] They don't work anymore.

[288] It doesn't work.

[289] You'll change a few people's minds because they'll buy into it.

[290] But then if they investigate themselves, they're a piece of shit.

[291] journalist this is a terrible article about something it's you know but i sometimes think like i have two theories on this one i sometimes think was it always like this and i didn't see it or here's my other theory my other theory is that in the collapse of traditional media meaning the collapse of newspapers and and just you know television news bureaus that there because there's no money to pay someone to be, say, like a movie review.

[292] My father -in -law is he used to write movie reviews in Milwaukee, and he would review the movies, and that was his job.

[293] And that job is really only present in very rare situations.

[294] Otherwise, it's just the opportunity of someone that does it out of a passion thing, meaning someone who has a blog, or it's someone who is, doesn't need a financial incentive.

[295] So in other words, they're like, you got 50 bucks to write a review of this thing, or so it ends up not being close to objective.

[296] Does that make sense?

[297] Yeah, no, it does.

[298] And I think if you're going to really study something, like if you want to know about a person, you know, say if it's a politician or, you know, an action.

[299] or comic or whoever you're writing about.

[300] The idea that you're going to figure them out with just a few hours of Google searching is kind of crazy.

[301] It's absolutely crazy.

[302] And the rush is to define someone in either very flattering or very unflattering ways.

[303] That's really where most of the energy goes.

[304] Most of the stories are either hit pieces or they're fluff pieces that seem to be propped up by a publicist.

[305] Yeah, there is, I feel.

[306] feel as though like I did this movie that came out um it was just a small indie comedy where I was a guy uh who had two separate families and they didn't know about each other so it's like he's a good guy no but he had two families and it's a comedy it's set in the 90s and you know the the reviews that didn't like the movie that didn't surprise me you know or the criticisms but like a lot of the reviews were kind of there was a tone of like how dare this white male have two fans like they couldn't get beyond like it wasn't like they would insert like a social commentary onto a platform that was not for that yeah do you I mean like it was there was there was a portrayal of and there were great female actors that played my wives and there was some reviews they were like, they underserved them and it's like, you know, the movie was really about my character and his son, you know, but like people were frustrated about story, but because of the day we live in, it had to be kind of deciphered through this kind of social critique that is just absurd.

[307] And it wasn't here and there.

[308] It was a lot of reviews like that.

[309] Well, they feel like there's an obligation to discuss that now, too.

[310] If they feel like there's some sort of an imbalance sexually, like between genders on a television show or intersectionality, if it has something to do with race or gender or politics, they feel like this is something that must be discussed.

[311] And one of the things that I hear from friends that are very frustrated is that when they pitch shows, when they pitch shows to the network, if they have a story, an idea like this is what we're trying to this is the thing they're like okay where's the diversity yeah it's like one of the first questions they're like well it's about an irish family that lives in the box like i don't know what to tell you yeah you know it's this is what the story's about like well where's the diversity like you have to insert diversity to meet their criteria like you can't just have a you can have a story as long as the person's like you could have a story about a Haitian family and it'd just be all about the Haitian family no one's going to say well what about white guys we need to get some white guys on this show Because if you inserted the white guys, then it's the white saviour story, so you can't be the white guys.

[312] Yeah.

[313] I just can't wait until we're done with all this.

[314] I mean, maybe it'll be long after we're done, long after we're dead.

[315] But when there's no more racism, and this is no longer a viable storyline, and no one gives a fuck if you're Chinese or Indian or from Pakistan, we legitimately don't care.

[316] They're just different varieties of people, and there's no judgment whatsoever.

[317] I can't wait for that time.

[318] Until then, we just have to deal with these absurd people that peddle in this narrative that you have to have X amount of one.

[319] Like, I was reading something where someone was saying that I should run for, I should moderate the presidential debates.

[320] That would be amazing.

[321] And someone's, it's never going to happen.

[322] You'd make them all smoke pot before you said.

[323] For sure.

[324] It's never going to happen.

[325] But someone said, why do that when you can give it to a talented black woman?

[326] I'm like, okay, I'm out.

[327] We're out.

[328] We're not talking about that.

[329] And by the way, here's the thing.

[330] And I think you'd agree with me. I do think there's an imbalance.

[331] And we do have to correct it.

[332] Yes.

[333] And I do think that, like, you know, and it's great that we have the knowledge and the foresight.

[334] But humans, we're just clumsy.

[335] Yeah.

[336] We're just clumsy, you know, with, you know, we're just like, oh, let's just stick this here.

[337] When, you know, creativity is much more complex than that.

[338] Like, even any comedian, we could have keratop here.

[339] There's a nuance on every joke he does.

[340] Like, people can sit there and be dismissive.

[341] But, like, he's like, you know what?

[342] can't do that joke before I do this joke.

[343] Yeah.

[344] Whereas people just think it's like, no, just stick this in there.

[345] Stick a speech in there.

[346] But I almost feel is like when Green Book won, because I saw it after the fact, I was like, because you know, like there's this, this belief of, oh, you know, if you play a disabled person, you win.

[347] And but it's much more of like that movie winning was like, oh, yeah, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, the great crime of America and race.

[348] So it brings that up.

[349] It also deals with you know, homosexuality and like the struggle of that, which is profound.

[350] I can't even contemplate it.

[351] But it's like, that's why the movie won.

[352] And it was also, we love Italians.

[353] America loves it.

[354] Hey, you gotta talk like this.

[355] Who doesn't love that?

[356] America loves Italians.

[357] They love Boston.

[358] And, you know, that's, you know, that's there's certain things that America loves.

[359] So I was like, oh, that's why it won.

[360] I'm not saying it's a bad movie.

[361] I'm not saying Vigio wasn't great.

[362] I'm just saying that's why it won.

[363] Yeah.

[364] And it's weird.

[365] It is a little weird.

[366] But on the other hand, one way to look at it is that, like, the idea that there can be no darkness without light, right?

[367] There can be no, there can be no real appreciation of true diversity without an understanding of racism.

[368] Like, to have it around.

[369] In its ugliest form, makes you appreciate the people that don't express that, that aren't racist, that are just even keeled people that appreciate everybody.

[370] Well, you know, there's there's also this, too, is that, you know, I'm, I tend to lean left.

[371] I'm pretty liberal socially.

[372] And, but I, and, you know, when Trump was elected and like there was women's march and all this stuff, there was this, I'm.

[373] I have this thought process of like, how do I, how do I, you know, how can I contribute?

[374] How can I help make this country better, which just sounds grandiose, which it is.

[375] But the thing is, it's like, I'm not changing anyone's mind.

[376] I really believe that.

[377] It's like, and if anything, I think at my shows, it's like people are kind of like, a break from it.

[378] Yes.

[379] Do you know what I mean?

[380] Like it's, we're all thinking about it all the time.

[381] They're like, all right, there's a tariff, a Chinese tariff.

[382] What does that mean?

[383] I don't know what that means.

[384] Is that, are American farmers destroyed?

[385] What's going on?

[386] But, like, when they come to my show, they don't want me to rehash it.

[387] Yes.

[388] Yeah.

[389] No, I think that's one of the keys to your success is that you provide a vacation.

[390] A fun, silly, well -thought -out, comedically brilliant sort of vacation from the nonsense of the day.

[391] But also pointing out that humans are, we're absurd.

[392] We're stupid.

[393] Yes, yeah.

[394] We are so stupid.

[395] Like, we just think, humans think we have it, every generation we think we have it figured out.

[396] Yeah.

[397] That's, like, the, the shiridness of people makes me concerned.

[398] Like, you know, there were people at a time that were like, here's how we serve the, how we solve the flu is we're going to put these leeches on people.

[399] Trust me, it's working.

[400] Like, they, they were convinced that would work.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Yeah, it makes you wonder, like, what, how we're going to view this generation.

[403] a hundred years from now or 200 years from now.

[404] Oh, it's going to be fast.

[405] I mean, I've got a 15 -year -old who is so, my children are, they're so fascinating.

[406] And you live in New York City.

[407] I live in New York City.

[408] Yeah, which is great.

[409] We talked about this a long time ago.

[410] That's a wild place to raise kids.

[411] Is it?

[412] I don't know.

[413] You tell me. I feel like there is, there is socioeconomic.

[414] economic, cultural, more diversity, my kids walking to a subway station than if we lived in the suburbs.

[415] But sure.

[416] And yeah, you know, it's, you know, they don't have a yard.

[417] But like, I'm kind of like, I don't know, it seems like people that have yards, they're like paranoid about their kids getting snatched anyway.

[418] So, but I don't know.

[419] It's what I also, you know, I feel like there's a lot of convenience.

[420] in New York that I like.

[421] And I also, to be perfectly honest, it's like in L .A., I feel like, I feel kind of smothered by the entertainment industry.

[422] And maybe it's my insecurity, but it's like...

[423] No, I think you're right.

[424] There's like, you drive down the street.

[425] There's all these billboards, and each of those billboards is saying, you're a failure.

[426] Look at this person.

[427] This is their fifth show where they're going to get an Emmy nomination, and people don't even know your name.

[428] You know, so it's, I mean, obviously just fate had it where I stayed in New York because there's plenty of reasons to live in L .A. Well, first and foremost, you're a comic.

[429] You're always recognized as a comic, but you do a lot of other things as well.

[430] But like being, you do a lot of other movies and television shows and stuff, but being in New York City, I think in some ways you get the best of both worlds because you get many clubs to perform in, many clubs to practice in, but you also don't get that sort of scrutiny of the agents and the managers and the entertainment industry so you can work on your shit and then on top of that you're not surrounded by the business yeah you're you're around fucking regular folks just hustling and doing the thing i mean i'm traveling constantly too so it's but there is yeah i just like do it i mean here's where i think i'm doing the doing it wrong or doing it right it's like i just care about good stage time quality stage time where Whereas I think, you know, even, you know, like I don't work at the cellar in New York City and that's, you know, some of that goes back history.

[431] But like some of it is I just want stage time and I can eat dinner with my kids, put some of them to bed and decide to do a spot, go do the spot, come back and wrangle my two other kids to get to sleep.

[432] whereas if I went to the cellar or if I had to make the journey, the drive in L .A., it would be a different commitment.

[433] What's the thing about the seller that makes it more difficult?

[434] Well, you know, some of it is peers and friends.

[435] Like, I don't like the idea, you know, the hierarchy of, I always kind of get, you know, a little bit.

[436] Like, I'm just kind of like, I just want to do stand up.

[437] I just want to do it.

[438] I spent a lot of time hanging out in comedy clubs and some of it is like in at the cellar I don't want to bump some of my friends that I started with and I also don't want to get bumped by somebody else It's like I you know I'm not going to abuse doing a set But I'll go in and I'll do 15 minutes It won't disrupt anyone's night But I also know that at the cellar You know there's going to be people that show up Sometimes there's a pack of three or four people that are going to do sets and everyone's kind of off for that night.

[439] But also it's, you know, it goes back like 20 years ago.

[440] I'm a low energy kind of comedian and it used to, you know, I used to put in a veils at the cellar and it would kind of determine I would get, you know, like you get a spot Wednesday at 1 a .m. And so like I would be bummed for the week.

[441] So I don't want to, I don't want to give my power away in those situations i just want to do stand up so you'd rather just do good spots yeah and and also and i look i love the seller but i feel like that's also uh the the layout of the room is far more interactive whereas i want to try out material um but i don't know it's shift it's shifted because the seller is it's a great club with a great complex i mean there's three rooms so but some of it is i'm now at the point where I just want to do one set and I also don't want to like, I don't want a friend like Todd Barry looking at me like, you're bumping me?

[442] Do you know what I mean?

[443] Do you call in or do you just show up?

[444] I call in.

[445] So I'll call, but sometimes I'll decide at like 8 .10.

[446] I'll call Gotham and I'll go, is it okay if I come in?

[447] And they'll say yes.

[448] It's better if you come in at 8 .40 or 9 .10 Just so that I don't screw anyone up.

[449] Yeah.

[450] And then, you know, but like at Gotham, Seinfeld always goes there too.

[451] So it's like, I'm like, I got to get there before Jerry.

[452] Well, that's a beautiful thing about a big city like New York, particularly about New York.

[453] There's so many different options.

[454] Like in Los Angeles, we really only have the comedy store, the improv, the laugh factory, and then there's a few on the outskirts.

[455] But New York City has so many more options.

[456] It's amazing the transformation the comedy store has gone through.

[457] Yeah.

[458] Like, it is the, I would say it's probably one of the most important clubs in the country, beyond a doubt.

[459] Maybe, I'm thinking it's like up there, right, as like the sure fire thing.

[460] If you're an audience member, you go to the store, you're going to see a great show.

[461] But like 15 years ago, I don't know if that was the case.

[462] No. No, it wasn't the case in 2008.

[463] Yeah.

[464] Yeah, it was pretty down for a while.

[465] And who is responsible?

[466] Because that comes down to management.

[467] that has a lot to do with it also the internet a lot of us talking about how great the comedy stories also getting rid of the old management firing them right they found the old guy was running the place was stealing money and they fired him there's how many he's a piece of shit anyway there's so many stories where it's like and then it was revealed they were stealing you're like yeah they they did a sting operation and caught him stealing money oh yeah it was a bad guy but just running the place poorly too yeah and he was the reason why i wasn't there for seven years yeah Yeah, so I came back and, you know, all the talking about the store with comics on podcast, too, got people so excited about it.

[468] And then you'd look at the lineup, like, on a Tuesday night, it's just a murderer's row.

[469] And also those rooms are great, the layout of the rooms are, like, great for performing.

[470] They're not kind of like this, you know, like, I love Zanis in Chicago, but it's like, it's not like the stage is three feet higher than the audience.

[471] It's almost perfectly designed and laid out.

[472] Yes.

[473] Yeah.

[474] Yeah, you don't want to be above.

[475] Like, the store, like the original room is probably the best room in the world to figure out if your jokes are any good.

[476] Yeah.

[477] Because if you have any weird fat in your material or just extra words or fakeness or it just gets exposed in that room.

[478] Yeah, I love going to different places.

[479] And I call it purifying a joke.

[480] Are you doing a spot tonight anywhere?

[481] No, I'm probably not.

[482] Come on, I'm an old man. Get the fuck out of here.

[483] You're in town.

[484] Are you going there?

[485] Yeah, yeah.

[486] All right, maybe I'll go.

[487] I'm up at 9 .30.

[488] All right, I'll go.

[489] I'll hook it up.

[490] I'm going to hook it up.

[491] I'm going to go and bump you.

[492] I'll call in for you.

[493] I'll make you bump me. No, no. Yeah.

[494] I mean, it's just, I've been doing this, all this promotion for this Amazon Prime thing.

[495] There's so many shows.

[496] Like, there's shows that I'm like, and I've heard of them.

[497] But I'm like, how many?

[498] Like, it's getting to the point where people, like, we're doing individual shows for, just one person.

[499] Like, I feel like I'm like, I'll do these shows and I'll be like, all right, you know, and I don't want to name, but you're like, I think, like, I'll look at my publicist.

[500] I'm like, is there people that listen to this?

[501] And he's like, yeah, a million people.

[502] I'm like, really?

[503] There's so many people, Jim.

[504] That's what it is.

[505] It's just, it used to be the, but like, it's strange to do a show, have a great time, you know, you really kind of engaged in conversation and it drops and no one says anything on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook well there's if you really stop and think about how many television shows there are in terms of like shows you can binge watch it's impossible you would literally lose your entire day every day of the week just trying to keep up with the hits there's no way it's impossible and then you have how many people have talk shows how many And there's James Corden and there's The Tonight Show and there's Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel.

[506] When did you decide to not?

[507] Because you used to do those shows.

[508] Yeah.

[509] Was there was it's a time management thing?

[510] It's a time management thing and it's also I don't believe that they have a good format.

[511] I think that format is nonsense.

[512] I think the format of waiting for commercials and the audience being right there and playing to the audience.

[513] It's not it's not an effective way to have a conversation.

[514] It's definitely not an effective way to express ideas that are.

[515] complicated.

[516] You want to be able to like air them out in a long form way.

[517] And you can't do that on those shows.

[518] You just can't.

[519] It's in, it's out.

[520] And if anything weird or controversial comes up, you stick your foot in your mouth, you never have a chance to take it out.

[521] Nobody really gets a chance to see how your mind really works.

[522] Like what, what are you thinking?

[523] What, what, where is your head at?

[524] How do you come to these conclusions?

[525] What's your thought process?

[526] Who are you as a person?

[527] Are you a good person?

[528] Are you trying to do good?

[529] Are you flawed?

[530] Are you, what are you?

[531] And you find that out in a long -form conversation.

[532] It's like, when I had Bernie Sanders on, one of the things that people said was most interesting was like, this guy's not a cartoon.

[533] He's a really nice guy.

[534] I see him on these shows, and he seems like this fucking cartoonish character.

[535] Right.

[536] But now you see him here in this long -form conversation where there's no interruptions at all.

[537] He just has a chance to think and talk and express himself.

[538] And you go, oh, now I know the real Bernie, because I never knew him in these goddamn debates and he's screaming for 12 seconds about.

[539] about health care or about taxes or about whatever it is yeah it's fascinating like right here let me let me let me ask you this okay because give me one of them so let me try they're beautiful they're delicious i go original flavor and you used to used to do the chew right i used to dip and then i used to smoke cigarettes like there's my wife has uh thank you uh videos like you know we have all these old videos of us doing stand -up and she was transferring them to like DVDs at the time.

[540] Now we're going to have to get them off the DVD.

[541] And she would find these videos of me doing stand -up smoking on stage.

[542] Whoa, back in the day, son.

[543] And she was like, what are you doing?

[544] And I'm like, yeah, I used to smoke.

[545] I used to, you know, I had yellow fingers.

[546] I was changed to smoking.

[547] I smoked cigarettes before I go on stage, even recently.

[548] I smoked one of Chappelle's cigarettes last weekend.

[549] It gives you a crazy head rush.

[550] Before you go on stage, I like it.

[551] I mean, I don't want to smoke cigarettes.

[552] Sorry for the snobiles.

[553] Macking in the microphone, folks.

[554] It's a terrible thing to smoke cigarettes, but there's a weird rush that you get from the nicotine.

[555] It's like, uh, it's a head rush.

[556] It's like, you feel good.

[557] Yeah.

[558] It fires up your brain.

[559] You feel it the first couple times and then you're chasing it for the rest of your life.

[560] Well, if you only smoke it.

[561] As you just shovel money into a garbage can.

[562] Once a week.

[563] If you smoke a cigarette, once a week before you want to date.

[564] That's a real.

[565] That's, hey kids out there.

[566] Just listen.

[567] Just listen.

[568] Uncle Joe, just smoke one cigarette a week, and it'll be fun.

[569] Well, I'm thinking maybe your nicotine gum might be the substitute for that, because what I'm getting is the nicotine, right?

[570] I mean, that's what the rush is.

[571] Maybe I should start smoking cigars before I go on stage.

[572] I, the, the nicotine gum, it used to curb my hunger.

[573] It used to curb.

[574] Nothing does now.

[575] Nothing at all curbset.

[576] It's like, but we were talking about this outside.

[577] I'm like, there are times when I've been more in.

[578] than others, but I feel like at this point, I'm like, you know, maybe I'll just go all in and fat guy.

[579] I might just be like, you know what?

[580] I'm just, I'm just going to go all in, you know, like, you know, I'll just, you know, I'll take the place of Panette, you know, I'll just do that.

[581] You know what I mean?

[582] You seem thinner, though, than I've seen you before.

[583] I'm not.

[584] I'm not.

[585] I'm not at all.

[586] But it's just, I have low tea.

[587] I don't know what that even means.

[588] Like I see those commercials.

[589] Low testosterone.

[590] Yeah.

[591] Do you take testosterone?

[592] Yes, I take testosterone.

[593] You seem like you drink it every morning.

[594] Have you ever like, but like, I feel like I just need like energy.

[595] Yeah, that'll give you energy.

[596] Your body's dying.

[597] It is dying, right?

[598] Your endocrine system no longer produces the hormones.

[599] You lost me at an endocrine.

[600] I mean, when you see an older person when they have the diminished muscle and their mass is like shrinking, that's what's going on.

[601] Their body doesn't produce the hormones in order to keep the mass going.

[602] So what you have to do is two things.

[603] One, you have to lift weights.

[604] That's one thing.

[605] And two, you have to supplement your hormones.

[606] Too hard.

[607] Too hard?

[608] No, but some of it is, I'm so focused on eating.

[609] No, I'm so focused on, I sometimes listen to my set while I work out.

[610] It's like when you work out, you have to focus on working out.

[611] Yeah, but that's a good thing to do.

[612] I do that when I'm on the elliptical sometimes.

[613] I listen to comedy.

[614] I think listening to sets is one thing that not enough comics do.

[615] They record their sets, but they don't listen to them because it's gross.

[616] and you feel it's annoying, you don't want to hear it, but it's the way you learn.

[617] And I feel like, I mean, I don't know, I would like to know how you feel about this, but I feel like the amount of time that you spend concentrating on your material has a direct result and how good it is and how good it gets quick, especially when you're producing specials, so you abandon all your material and then you have to write new stuff.

[618] For me, the process is greatly accelerated by physically writing.

[619] Physically writing is very important.

[620] I devote a lot of time to sit in front of a computer, staring at it, smoking pot, writing things out, looking at notes, writing things out.

[621] Performing, those are critical, but also listening.

[622] Listening to those recordings and then writing notes on the recordings.

[623] For me, the process is, it shifts all the time, right?

[624] So there's sometimes you just give birth to a chunk.

[625] It just comes out.

[626] And you're like, oh, my gosh, thank God.

[627] And sometimes it's just like you're chiseling away at granite.

[628] And it's just bit by bit underneath.

[629] But for me, it's doing these longer sets, like doing an hour and 10 minutes, I will, and it's a shift from before.

[630] It used to be like I needed the sets in the city to like build piece by piece.

[631] But now I'm kind of, I'll talk about like something that happened when I was a kid.

[632] And then I'll polish it over a long period because in an hour show, it's, you know, I believe you have to do a material every time you do.

[633] a theater and it has to be new because you want people leaving going, I'm coming back when it comes back here.

[634] Yeah.

[635] And so, but the writing process, it's, it's always moving for me. Sometimes it is, it's a lot of times like something will bump me and I'll write it down on my phone and then sometimes I'll write around it or I will just go on stage and talk a little bit about it.

[636] Are you, when you are doing sets in the city, are you ever doing long sets, like an hour?

[637] not usually because it's i mean my when i'm in new york you know having five kids it's just just the commitment for like i'm looking at september and i'm like oh my gosh like the the curriculum nights alone oh yeah are going to be insane and there's going to be you know uh you know my daughters and soccer and there's going to be all these meetings and there's just innumerable things so like assemblies, school assemblies, you know, like chatting with the principal who talks about their philosophy.

[638] And so, like, there's a commitment.

[639] But, like, doing the hour, I don't really usually do it in New York.

[640] But what I do do is I will, I like to do, I don't know what they're called now, but all shows in Brooklyn, which is, it'll kind of like, I'll do material that would work in a comedy Club, but like in Brooklyn in front of like a more, I don't know how to describe, hipsters, hipsters or more precious audience.

[641] Precious.

[642] Do you know what I mean?

[643] Where, you know, like when I go on stage in New York City, in Manhattan, I'm a white guy who's like fat, when I go on stage in some of these rooms in Brooklyn, I'm a white man. You know what I mean?

[644] So it's a different experience.

[645] And it's very important to see that because.

[646] how I characterize things, you know, it's good to like be educated on like, oh, you know, all right, maybe that does sound a little piggy.

[647] So I'll pull back.

[648] Right, right.

[649] And then I'll go on the road.

[650] Like I used to, like a great example is I used to have back when USA, I'm sure USA Today is still there, but I used to have all this material that I developed in Brooklyn about the USA Today, how like it's just like a coloring book.

[651] You know what I mean?

[652] And how it's just kind of like, do you like news, but also pictures of news?

[653] And it was just great.

[654] And it would kill in Brooklyn and it would kill in New York.

[655] And then I would go on the road and people would be like, what the hell are you talking about?

[656] I like the USA Today.

[657] That's what I get when I travel.

[658] You know what I mean?

[659] Or it's got a great sports section.

[660] So it's like there's so much value in traveling around with material because you gain different perspectives.

[661] Oh, sure.

[662] The road is so critical for that.

[663] Yeah.

[664] You get a sense of how people, especially when you're doing clubs.

[665] I found that the road, when you're doing clubs, you really get a. a sense of like the feel of a city whether it's Cleveland or Columbus yeah yeah I mean I love the fact even you know how you know doing talking about you know I make a point of not doing too much material on having five kids but like I'll do like if I talk about having five kids in New York City in at a show in New York City people are like you're crazy and then if I talk about having five kids in Boston, and I'm generalizing.

[666] People in Boston might be like, you're crazy.

[667] I came from one of those families.

[668] And if I do it in Utah, people would be like, yeah, we are crazy for having five kids.

[669] So it is the same joke and it's the same point of view, but it's tweaked a little bit.

[670] And it's so fun kind of traveling around and learning that material and learning the impact and how it's digested.

[671] Well, comics have a unique perspective on America because of that, because we don't just go to these different places, but we also perform material in all these different places.

[672] So I think, like, we, I've been talking a lot with comics lately about, like, what was your reaction to Trump winning the election?

[673] Comics saw it coming more than most people who live in L .A. Because most people live in L .A., very liberal, very left wing, convinced that, you know, this is, even it didn't matter who you voted for.

[674] Hillary was going to win California no matter like we were this was a pro yeah democrat state and when trump won i i ran into people that were shell -shocked they couldn't fucking imagine i mean i think i mean i was surprised i was definitely surprised but that being said i wasn't surprised by um the uh the logic behind some of the people that voted for Trump last time that are sheepish to admit it now.

[675] Yes.

[676] I understood some of that logic.

[677] But I thought it was fascinating because there was a time for me because I tour with Ted Alexander a lot and he's like, he's like an Occupy Wall Street guy.

[678] Like he's like very progressive.

[679] And we would tour and he would have during the election, he would have some material on Hillary and some material on Trump, and it worked everywhere.

[680] Worked in Texas, worked in Tennessee, which I think is the most conservative place outside of Nashville.

[681] And so it would work everywhere.

[682] And then the election happened, and that same material, and it wasn't just the context of the post -election.

[683] It was, I describe it as people looking at the ceiling, is that people didn't want to hear it.

[684] And I think some of it is people.

[685] like we deal with this all day, we need a break from it, but it was both sides.

[686] So like Trump voters were more emboldened, kind of like, that's right.

[687] And then also the left, people were like, please, can I, I just want to hear Jim talk about horses for 10 minutes.

[688] Do you know what I mean?

[689] And so there is something fascinating that occurs.

[690] And there's also something fascinating about international shows because when Bush was, when W was president, there were much more people coming up to me going, how dare he, you know, start the Iraq war?

[691] And with Trump, they're like, yeah, you probably didn't have anything to do with that.

[692] Yeah, I would say that's my takeaway.

[693] Yeah, it's, people are definitely fatigued.

[694] I think we have political discourse fatigue.

[695] It's never ending.

[696] Never ending.

[697] And how much of is your life?

[698] If you really stop and think about it, if you're alive for 75, 85 years on this planet and most of your waking time interacting with people is discussing politics how much of it actually does affect your life other than those conversations those conversations it's a a giant part of a lot of people's anxiety a giant part of the argument but the real life like getting up in the morning fixing breakfast for your kids taking them to school how much does fucking trump play a part in any of that well yeah i did i did a cbs sunday commentary on how all conversations lead to Trump.

[699] Like, it's just every conversation eventually gets to.

[700] And then Trump did something like that.

[701] But it is, I was also thinking, like, because we live in this very precarious time and, you know, a very divided country on a lot of different levels.

[702] And there's so much drama and there's, you know, environmental disaster impending.

[703] and again to my point of like we finally figured it out this is the most dramatic period but compared to World War II no this is nothing nothing this is nothing I was in central Europe what the like human beings like we you know you know and we're going around this terrorism this place outside of Prague where they stuck all the Jewish people and with my children and my children who like just want to play on iPad were just mesmerized.

[704] They're like, what?

[705] And the takeaway was not, oh, the Germans are bad and Nazis are bad.

[706] The takeaway is, oh, humans are crazy.

[707] Like, it's just a matter of months that these same people that were your neighbors that you would go to their kids' birthday parties, you were waving goodbye to because you got their apartment.

[708] And I'm like, oh, like, it was terrifying.

[709] like human beings it's very easy for us to go yeah it was the germans it was the germans that did that you know it was lithuanians did it but it wasn't it was human beings that were like manipulated like that yeah yeah like right next to you that's that is a world war two helmet that's a legitimate world war two helmet and a bayonet wow that uh it's a good reminder it's filled with little holes and shit there's apparently places in europe where you can find thousands of those things just scattered out there you know there's areas in france that are impossible for people to go to because there's so many rounds that have been shot into the the ground there and so much toxic chemicals and stuff from world war two that to this day they they don't want people traveling to i mean it's an enormous size the size of paris it's in france yeah see if you can find that that's amazing To this day, from the 40s.

[710] So, like, when I was in Prague and, you know, you go on these tours and the punishment, like, they would just be like, and this, I also learned this in Greece, they'd be like, they'd be like, okay, so as punishment, we are going to murder an entire village.

[711] So we're going to, and you're like, what?

[712] And by the way, again, we can characterize this, this, because on the internet, everyone's going to be like, Gaffigan was defending Nazis.

[713] That's not my point at all.

[714] is just that human beings like it wasn't that long ago when like rape and pillage was the go -to tactic it's like all right we'll conquer then we'll rape and pillage you know there were some guys that were like you know can I just pillage I just you know I got a girlfriend now and I don't really feel like raping well we were talking about Kyrgyzstan the other day that to this day 20 % of all marriages begin in kidnapping what yes 20 % so one out of five marriages started with the groom kidnapping the bride like that's how they had to get married because he raped her so in order for her so it's romantic it's that's unbelievable it's fucking crazy here it is the red zone in france is so dangerous that a hundred years after world war two it's still a no -go area there's all sorts of rounds and munitions and and there's all sorts of i mean there's so many rockets were fired into this area that this shit is still in, in the soil and everyone.

[715] Why, you know, this also brings up a separate point.

[716] Why is this surprise?

[717] Like, humans also have a really, a real short -term memory problem.

[718] Like, we don't remember things.

[719] Right.

[720] Like, I don't think people really appreciate, you know, that World War II was like 70 years ago.

[721] Right.

[722] Like, it was not that long ago.

[723] Right.

[724] Right.

[725] Like even the, you know, like Serbia, I was in DeBrovnik and they're like, yeah, up there the Montenegrins used to shoot at us and all those guys.

[726] You know, now we go to their bar.

[727] And you're like, what?

[728] Like, that was the 90s.

[729] Yeah.

[730] It's just, it's just terrifying.

[731] It's hard to believe.

[732] But if you're in the wrong place in history at the wrong time, like right now, if you're in Libya.

[733] If you're in Libya right now.

[734] Or Syria.

[735] Yeah.

[736] Well, Libya is a failed state.

[737] I mean, Syria is horrible.

[738] You have a side.

[739] running it, but Libya is no one running it.

[740] Libya, they're selling slaves on YouTube.

[741] I mean, you can watch slave auctions in real time right now.

[742] It's a terrifying, terrifying place.

[743] And it's because they killed Omar Gaddafi, and then the rebels took over, and then it became a failed state.

[744] It's chaos.

[745] And this is right now, in 2019, if you were unfortunate enough to be born in Libya, you are stuck there right now, and you're living in hell.

[746] You're not living in Manhattan in 2019 where it's wonderful.

[747] Jim Gaffkin can and hop on over to Gotham and say hi to Jerry Seinfeld, do a set and have a meatball sub and, you know, do whatever the fuck you want.

[748] No, you're living in a chaos -filled environment where barbarians are running the show.

[749] And this can happen.

[750] This can happen.

[751] And this is one of the reasons why our democracy is so important.

[752] It's one of the reasons why compassion is so important and kindness and talking to people.

[753] And it's also important to look at things objectively and label things based on compassion and looking at things in an intelligent.

[754] non -biased way.

[755] So you could really get a sense of what the landscape really is.

[756] If you're, you know, everybody's a fucking Nazi and everybody's terrible and white privilege this, white privilege that.

[757] Everyone's a criminal.

[758] Everyone's bad.

[759] No, no, no. There's real crime in the world.

[760] There's real terror and real awful things.

[761] And we have more unity.

[762] We have more in common than we promote.

[763] You know what I think is, and I think this is also a reflection of the success of comedians' podcast is that what people don't realize is that comedians really appreciate a different point of view we actually like we have friends that like we don't agree with in fact we almost find it entertaining like let's talk to this friend because I know I disagree with him and we can have that banter and I think that particularly in this cancel culture there is, and so, like, you get these comedians, like you, hosting these podcasts, having these discussions, and comedians have kind of like the boldness to step in it and say, hey, I don't know about that.

[764] Tell me about that.

[765] Whereas, like, from a societal basis, there's like, don't question.

[766] Don't question why we're pursuing this.

[767] Because if you question it, that means you're not a true believer.

[768] And we're looking for true believers.

[769] Whereas, and by the one, it's just interesting because I think, you know, I have a friend, Tom Shaloo, who I love, who's, who has a show on, on Fox Nation.

[770] And it is weird because like six years ago, and I did this interview and I talked about it.

[771] And I could see the interviewer go, you're friends with someone that works at Fox?

[772] And I'm like, yeah, you know, it's like, it's okay.

[773] Yeah.

[774] It's okay.

[775] He's not a monster.

[776] Yeah.

[777] He's not killing, you know, he's not putting children in cages.

[778] I'm good friends with Steve Hilton.

[779] He has a show on Fox.

[780] He interviewed Trump.

[781] My family and his family go on vacations together.

[782] Nice guy.

[783] It's like, why?

[784] Like, it's, it's, it's this strange thing where I'm like, I can understand how important these beliefs are.

[785] And I can understand how threatened.

[786] um democracy is and i can understand how we have to face our history and and all these things but it's like the discourse has to remain doesn't it yes we have to be able to talk to each other and i think that's one of the things that kind of died with the trump election people were like you're with us or against us you're either for him or you're for the future and compassion and and caring about everyone or you're a monster and there's no there's no there's no discussion about finances or the best way to run the economy or international trade.

[787] No, no, no, no, no. You're with the good or the bad.

[788] You're binary.

[789] It's one or zero.

[790] You're black or white.

[791] You're one or zero.

[792] And that is the same thing that they criticized about W saying you're either with us or against us.

[793] Which, by the way, being a father of daughters, you know, is also a line from Beauty and the Beast.

[794] Yeah.

[795] Right.

[796] but it is true and appropriately so right it's like very childlike like that that perspective is very childlike there's a lot of people that are conservative that are very good people absolutely that's i you know here's another thing that i find very frustrating i feel as though i'm sometimes and sometimes i'll get messages on social media and they'll be like you know that some of the people that like your comedy are Trump supporters and I'm like I hope so I hope that I appeal to a lot of different people uh you know I it's it's a very strange like I remember the success I had and I'm so grateful for the success that I've had on beyond the pale I remember like I came back to New York after I had done this tour and you don't know with stand up you don't know how long it's going to last you don't know what's going on and I came back And I remember someone reading an article, maybe it was in Timeout, New York.

[797] And they're like, he's very mainstream, mainstream.

[798] And there was recently a New York Times article.

[799] He's very conventional.

[800] And I'm like, what is that?

[801] Do you mean like conventional in that people want to go and see me perform?

[802] Like a lot of people like you?

[803] Like that's a crime?

[804] Yeah.

[805] Like that's, he's, you know, it's like, it's so, we live in this age.

[806] like there used to be comedians and I think it's inhibited some people's success where like if it's like Bill Burr one of the best comedians today and I think people are sometimes people in the media are like you know the wrong people might like his material and you're like that doesn't do you know I'm saying yes I'm being paranoid but I'm like no I get that from this podcast it's it's a very strange, it's almost kind of a, you know, and I don't know if I've talked about this, but like, you know, like there's this cultural revolution that is occurring that is, it's well intended, but it's almost, it's almost puritanical.

[807] And by the way, I'm not somebody, I'm against any form of censorship, but I'm also somebody that believes that if we can articulate transgender terms that make people that are transgender feel comfortable.

[808] There's nothing wrong with that.

[809] We can adjust our language.

[810] We do it all the time.

[811] But I do think that there is kind of this almost puritanical thing that's ironically happening on the left.

[812] That is what we, you know, as comedians, we used to make fun of the right for.

[813] Does that make sense?

[814] Yes.

[815] It's a very strange kind of like, wait, you guys are doing what you, accuse these guys of doing forever they don't see it that way because they feel like they're right and if you're right then it doesn't matter and i do think it's well intended yeah i do think it's well intent i don't question someone's motives like i don't think that like i remember and i'm going to get blow back on this like i don't think that w uh had malicious intent i think he was well intended you know he failed at things but i think he was well intended i think that's probably a logical perspective and i think dick cheney's probably say You think so?

[816] I think Dick Cheney was running straight from hell That's why he had that bunker Deep, deep down Under the...

[817] But I think that bunker existed He was right next to hell It's not like he was like Yeah, I need a bunker He had a straight shot Straight to hell That's what it was It was an elevator It was down there That's how it was heated That's why it was so warm That's what he was Remember when he was in the bunker After 9 -11 There was like Dick Cheneer's in a bunker How come George Bush is playing golf W is out there Well because he was in D .C. He was in D .C. And there was a separation of of powers I don't know and then we all saw they Adam McKay movie you're like how much is that true I know right how much is that true imagine the power to because Dick Cheney like I you know I also doubt everything I always you know like everything I hear about I'm kind of like cut it in half which makes me kind of still think Trump is absolutely crazy but but like you know Dick Cheney is there, like, is he, is, and I don't think he cares, but like, there's no, like, the, the narrative has been set for him.

[818] Yeah.

[819] There's no kind of like, you're not going to believe this, but Dick Cheney is like one of the funniest storytellers.

[820] Like, that's, there's no, there's no changing the narrative of Dick Cheney.

[821] Right.

[822] Like George W. He's painting, and he does a lot of painting.

[823] And his painting is kind of lovely.

[824] It's like it's cute, sweet stuff.

[825] It's like it shows you where his mind is at.

[826] This is where he chooses to spend his time.

[827] But Katrina, he didn't go there right away.

[828] Well, he hates part of people, according to Kanye West.

[829] Right.

[830] But Dick Cheney is a completely different animal.

[831] Like, he shot his friend in the face and his friend apologized.

[832] Yeah, but he didn't do it.

[833] He obviously didn't do it on purpose.

[834] He's probably drunk.

[835] And then he disappeared for 24 hours.

[836] Do you know that?

[837] He didn't immediately turn himself in.

[838] they waited 20 yeah yeah he was most likely drinking they they were doing what's called a canned hunt where they open up these gates and they let these birds fly out and they just start blasting them and he shot his friend but it was it could have been a mistake it was a mistake but he was probably hammered i'm known as the dick cheney apologists oh nice so explain us halliburton so he was the CEO of halberton he leaves halberton and then he becomes a vice president and then he gives halberton these no -bid contracts to rebuild iraq after the They blew it up.

[839] So explain that as an apologist.

[840] You know, I would say one.

[841] No bid contracts happen often.

[842] That's what I've heard.

[843] How can you chew another one of those?

[844] My heart is pounded out on my chest.

[845] Because I'm a real man. I'm more manly than you.

[846] You know, like you're...

[847] How many of those you chopped down in a day?

[848] I'm a real, like, I get up.

[849] I do...

[850] What are those bells that you kind of sound?

[851] Cettle bells.

[852] You know what?

[853] I eat a bowl of those for cereal.

[854] Nice.

[855] When you're a man like me, that's what I do.

[856] I put CBD oil on my knees, and then I just lift, I lift bulldozers.

[857] That's what I do for breakfast.

[858] Then I jog up mountains and just yell.

[859] And then I just come home and I just eat elk meat.

[860] But, you know, unlike you, I don't cook it.

[861] I just eat the elk when it's alive.

[862] You can do it raw.

[863] Sometimes it's better to cook, though.

[864] What does elk meat taste like?

[865] You want some?

[866] Not really.

[867] I wish you're around here.

[868] Not really?

[869] You don't care?

[870] If I had a kitchen here and I cook some, would you eat some?

[871] We're at this compound.

[872] You have this huge place You've got a horse track in the back You don't have a kitchen here I'm going to open up a kitchen here Seriously I'm actually I'm thinking about putting together a restaurant So the elk thing What makes Maybe you've talked about this and I haven't heard the episode But elk meat is that good or it's just Yeah It's a wild animal But does it taste like deer It tastes better than deer Well venison you're like oh this is good You know if I have really strong mustard And I'm not hungry No, man, it's just prepared poorly.

[873] This is delicious.

[874] It's all of it is how the meat is taken care of after the animal dies, whether it's cooled quickly, and how it's processed.

[875] That's all it is.

[876] How it's cleaned, how it's cut up, how it's vacuum sealed and frozen almost immediately after the animal dies, how you don't let in the glands, like they have tarsal glands that they can get, they have hormones.

[877] Like a lot of times when you're shooting these animals, it's during the rut, so they're breeding, and this is when they get these hormones.

[878] and these tarsal glands they put these and it can get it on the meat.

[879] Why don't we eat more elk?

[880] Why don't we eat more elk?

[881] Because there's a wild animal.

[882] It's an illegal animal to sell.

[883] You have to go out and hunt them.

[884] Yeah, but why doesn't someone just start an elk farm?

[885] Because it's just, we look down on those, well, there's a lot of factors there.

[886] First of all, you can buy.

[887] It's the meat lobby.

[888] Yeah.

[889] No, no, no. You can buy it from New Zealand.

[890] New Zealand sells a lot of it.

[891] And I think there's some places where you can buy commercially raised elk in North America.

[892] I'm not exactly sure if that's the case, but it's illegal to sell wild game.

[893] And there's a difference between an animal that's been penned in and force -fed and just, you know, big bales of hay and whatever or a wild animal.

[894] Newspaper.

[895] Yeah.

[896] I'm interested in wild animals because I think wild animals are healthier.

[897] Also, I think the karma of what you're doing is very different.

[898] You're just going after a wild animal that's in the rut, and they wind up killing each other.

[899] They get killed by mountain lions and wolves and bears and what I'm doing is I'm dipping my toe into the natural world it's a circle of life I'm going after them the way a mountain lion would go after them just using a bow and arrow and I'm getting them and I'm bringing the back and then I eat that one animal a whole for a whole year I'll feed my family you know Tom Papa yeah Tom Papa is a and then he makes bread out of it Papa makes bread out of uh yeah it's like you and Papa like at your restaurant you have Papa do the bread for sure yeah he'll be the bread man Yeah.

[900] And then, like, Doug Benson could sell the weed.

[901] And then...

[902] Anybody could sell the weed today.

[903] Right.

[904] I guess anyone could today.

[905] Yeah.

[906] But, uh, but, like, you love elk.

[907] You wake up and you're like, you know what I want elk?

[908] I had it this morning for breakfast.

[909] Well, who doesn't have elk for breakfast?

[910] Do you have the elk cereal?

[911] I had sausage.

[912] You have elk sausage?

[913] You have elk sausage?

[914] And do you make your own elk sausage?

[915] No, I get that made.

[916] I get it made by a butcher that I know.

[917] And so do you think that when I come back, because I do this podcast every six years, Do you think when I come back?

[918] You can do it as much often as you want.

[919] Oh, thank you.

[920] You just didn't have the right phone numbers.

[921] Do you think that we will, that what is the, what is the, what is the, do you think that elk is the new kale that you are going to, that we're going to track it back?

[922] It's too hard to do.

[923] To go out and get it yourself, it's very difficult.

[924] You have to be like really committed to learning how to hunt and then to be fit enough to climb the mountains.

[925] And then what do you drag it back?

[926] You have to carry it out in chunks.

[927] You chop it up and then you carry it out in chunks.

[928] You quarter it, meaning you take the legs off and you take the backstrap.

[929] You know that there's like grocery stores, right?

[930] There's not to serve elk.

[931] And it's a different experience.

[932] I know what you're saying is just a joke.

[933] Why wouldn't someone listening to this start an elk ranch?

[934] And so they can sell...

[935] I don't think it's legal.

[936] It's not legal?

[937] No, it's not legal to sell wild game.

[938] And there's a reason for that.

[939] And also, when you have these farms, there are farms that raise deer and some other animals.

[940] there's a real problem with chronic wasting disease and certain diseases that get easily spread when all these animals are eating off of the same food source.

[941] So if they have like a bin where they're all eating out of them, they share saliva, it actually contributes to the contamination of certain diseases.

[942] And there's a real problem in this country with something called CWD, which is chronic wasting disease.

[943] And it's the same exact thing as mad cow disease.

[944] It just hasn't jumped over to other animals.

[945] It's jumped over to mice, but it hasn't jumped over.

[946] to humans but if it did jump over to humans it would be a gigantic fucking problem and part of that problem they believe stems from farms from farms that are raising deer it's very controversial really and so where do you where do you go to hunt elk because we're it maybe it's it might be different from where i hunt elk i go to utah every year go to colorado's a great place to hunt elk Montana is a great place to hunt that's a great elk hunting area just got to go into that you joke what you should come with me you freak out are you kidding are you kidding are you kidding Man, I would, unlike you, I wouldn't quarter it.

[947] I'd just drag it back because I'm strong enough.

[948] And I'd put some kettlebells on it.

[949] Just stick your dick in and just carry it out like a condom.

[950] You just sit.

[951] So they're big animals.

[952] So like if they, if you miss, will they charge you?

[953] Elk most of the time won't do that, but a moose certainly would.

[954] Moose are dangerous.

[955] Yeah, moose are nasty.

[956] They fuck you up.

[957] That's an elk right there.

[958] There you go.

[959] Yeah, I shot that one in Central California.

[960] And so how do you get that on an airplane?

[961] Well, you have to quarter it up, chop it up into portions, freeze it, and then stick it in like a Yeti cooler.

[962] And then I'll seal the Yeti cooler and you have to bring it through customs.

[963] And then they have to look at it, not customs, but TSA.

[964] They have to open it up and check it, inspect it, and make sure it's just frozen meat.

[965] Yes.

[966] Not a human.

[967] Yeah.

[968] And then they really wouldn't know if it wasn't human.

[969] As long as you package it, you could say it's wild pig.

[970] Idea.

[971] Holla.

[972] And so what is that?

[973] That thing there.

[974] That is for my friend Adam Green Tree.

[975] That is an Asiatic water buffalo that he shot in Australia.

[976] Wow.

[977] Yeah, he's a buddy mine.

[978] He gave it to me, so I decided to put it.

[979] And so how many elk have you shot?

[980] Like, you really, it takes you a year?

[981] To eat it?

[982] Yeah.

[983] About, no, I can eat one in about six months.

[984] My family eats a lot of it.

[985] I give a lot of it to my friends.

[986] And do people, like, are your daughter's like, elk again?

[987] Sometimes.

[988] Yeah, sometimes they get annoyed.

[989] We eat a lot of meat.

[990] And a lot of elk stew.

[991] And it's healthier than beef.

[992] Oh, yeah.

[993] Why is it healthier?

[994] It's got more protein per ounce.

[995] It's got more amino acids.

[996] It's a darker, richer color.

[997] Like, if you look at grass -fed beef versus grain -fed beef, one of the things is a lot of meat's a dark color.

[998] It's because it's a healthier animal.

[999] That's what beef is supposed to look like.

[1000] What don't you eat?

[1001] I eat a lot of things.

[1002] Do you eat fast food?

[1003] Occasionally, yeah.

[1004] Occasionally.

[1005] I mean, I'm not, I'm not rigid.

[1006] Like, I'll eat in an out burger.

[1007] I love it.

[1008] I'm not that rigid.

[1009] Like, when you're eating in an out burger, are you imagining that it's an elk burger?

[1010] No. No, I'm just enjoying it.

[1011] Do you consider yourself an elk meat, elk meat advocate?

[1012] Yes.

[1013] You are, I'm an elk meat kind of.

[1014] You want to convert people.

[1015] No. Why not buy a ranch?

[1016] No, no, no. I don't want people to buy it like that.

[1017] I think this, I'm not even saying that you should go out and hunt.

[1018] I'm not saying that people should.

[1019] do it.

[1020] What I'm saying is if you did do it, you'd have a completely different relationship with your food.

[1021] When I'm eating something, there's like a real good feeling that I know that I harvested that thing.

[1022] I was out in the woods.

[1023] I chased it for days.

[1024] I was trying to get the wind right so that the wind is on at my back, blowing towards the animal.

[1025] I got to sneak up on it slowly.

[1026] I have to figure my way to where I can get a clean shot on this animal.

[1027] Then once I kill it, then we have to drag it out of there.

[1028] We have to cut it up and carry it out.

[1029] And do you aim for the head?

[1030] Or do you aim for the heart?

[1031] You aim for the heart.

[1032] But if you have a high -powered rifle, there's a lot of people that are chefs that shoot them in the head.

[1033] They think that it's quicker.

[1034] If they die quicker, they taste better.

[1035] But they taste delicious.

[1036] I don't really think there's any need for that.

[1037] There's an idea that if the animal has too much adrenaline in it, like if it's spooked, that it will taint the flavor of the meat.

[1038] What is the universal?

[1039] I hijacked your show.

[1040] but what is the unifying thing that comedians, UFC fighters, and hunters all have in common?

[1041] It's difficult.

[1042] We're doing difficult things.

[1043] That's the unifying thing.

[1044] It's a difficult pursuit.

[1045] Self -appointed.

[1046] Comedy is an extremely difficult pursuit.

[1047] The idea of taking an idea, crafting it, and then distributing it, performing it in front of people who paid money to hear you talk when they can talk to.

[1048] You're not doing flips Yeah, you're not doing flips.

[1049] Yeah, you're not doing flips.

[1050] You don't have a fucking multimedia show.

[1051] There's no pyrotechnics, but you're just talking.

[1052] And people will pay money, get a babysitter.

[1053] And you got to make sure it's right, man, because they'll get fucking angry at you.

[1054] Yep.

[1055] There's a direct correlation between how happy people are when you make them laugh versus how angry they are if you don't make them laugh.

[1056] By the way, I believe that, you know, people talk, and my tickets are not high or anything, but I think people care more about their time than they do about the money.

[1057] It's like, because if you're a parent, you're like, this is my one night.

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] It better be good.

[1060] Yes.

[1061] It's like when you go to a restaurant and you're like, really, this is my entree?

[1062] You know what I mean, granted, I eat out every night.

[1063] But when I used to be healthy, when I used to be healthy and I'd have that burger like once a month, you'd be like, this is my burger?

[1064] Oh, you get angry.

[1065] And it's a shitty burger.

[1066] Now I have like two burgers a day.

[1067] Yeah.

[1068] And it's like I'm always happy.

[1069] Well, that's good.

[1070] That's good.

[1071] But the thing they have in common is that they're all difficult things.

[1072] All difficult things.

[1073] Martial arts are incredibly difficult.

[1074] There's no bullshit in martial arts.

[1075] You either hit someone or you don't.

[1076] Either hit you or they don't.

[1077] You either win or you don't.

[1078] It's like it's really cut and dry.

[1079] And it's just a matter of how much effort you put into it, how much you've learned your craft, how much you've recognized your weaknesses and short up your holes in your defense and your offense and then you execute when you have to, which is means like when it's time for a fight, you perform, you rise to the occasion or you don't.

[1080] Very similar to going on stage, not with the same consequences, but very similar in terms of like rising to the occasion.

[1081] Is it something you have to be, you have to, like stand up, you have to be doing it.

[1082] Like it's not, you know, Eddie Murphy is amazing.

[1083] But the reason he didn't just pop back into doing standup is he understands, I talk it like, like I'm friends with him.

[1084] But he understands.

[1085] you have to do it often to be i mean that's by the way chris rock amazing that he literally took like 10 years off and then got back into the ritual and the because it's a commitment yeah there's nothing really that fancy about it but like when it comes to ufc you have to you can't just pick it up right but hunting you can pick it up right well or no you can pick up some kinds of hunting, right?

[1086] Like, you could pick up rifle hunting for certain animals.

[1087] All you'd have to do is understand how to keep your breath under control, how to not flinch when you pull a trigger, how to aim, how to use a weapon properly, and have someone who puts you in a good position where, you know, you have a guide maybe that helps bring you along.

[1088] Bow hunting is another level of commitment.

[1089] That requires athleticism.

[1090] You're most likely going to have to be in really good shape because you're going to have to go into the mountains and just the altitude alone and then going climbing up hills you're going up several up and down several thousand feet of elevation in a day and there are grocery stores there's grocery stores there's grocery stores that serve wild up and you chop yourself fascinating fascinating i think because sometimes i'll look at you know the the the community of comedians which i truly enjoy i and you obviously do too yeah it's like you'll sometimes run into other communities that because there is this solitary nature to it and then there's this shared obsession like I sometimes feel like chefs or people that you know just even cooks that really get true enjoyment out of it are have that shared kind of you know like the prep time the kind of uh you're doing it for yourself like you know a chef will come to the table and say do you like your meal but they don't need someone to approve it they know so it's like with stand -up it's it's the respect of your peers too it's like it's gratifying the audience liking it but there is something about the creation of the material that is so profoundly uh approving and the also the feedback that you get from an audience that is separate from like The supposed fame.

[1091] How dare you put an alarm on it?

[1092] I know.

[1093] What are you trying to do?

[1094] That means it's time to eat elk.

[1095] Yeah, no. I mean, I think many communities that are like important communities have, are important to the people involved.

[1096] They have, they share a lot of common aspects, whether it's comedians or, I mean, I think anything that's difficult, right?

[1097] If you, there's not, like, when you think about comedians, there's not that many of us.

[1098] If you really stop to think about, there's 300 million.

[1099] people in this country how many professional comedians is there even a thousand i mean how many people are really making a living off of just doing stand -up i mean i would venture that might be about 250 which is amazing because by the way when i started and and uh and you're around the same period it was there was like nobody there was no and by the way and seinfeld's era there was even less nobody how about lenny bruce's era there was like him and mort saw like one other guy.

[1100] Insane.

[1101] Insane.

[1102] Insane.

[1103] And now there's like professors of stand -up comedy.

[1104] That's ridiculous.

[1105] They're all ridiculous.

[1106] I interviewed one guy and wrote a book on comedy.

[1107] Oh, yeah.

[1108] Well, that's ridiculous ideas.

[1109] Generally, I think that, I think that stand up when people, it's like when we try and figure out why a joke works so that we can figure out how to do another one, we lose it.

[1110] Like, there is some.

[1111] magic.

[1112] There's some magic.

[1113] Not to get to, there is something of like, there's a moment, you know, like sometimes singer -songwriters talk about this, that like a song just appears.

[1114] And some of it is we put in the time and we put in the work on ourselves and kind of like self -reflection and we're open to understanding who our point of view is and we're embracing our embarrassment that kind of opens us to material.

[1115] Yeah.

[1116] And there's also the more.

[1117] you do it and the more frequently you do it the more you kind of have a feel for it and when you take time off that's what it's really weird like for me i went on vacation recently to italy and then i went back on stage after like 12 days and i was like what do i know how to do this it's a weird feeling it's a weird feeling you got to be immersed in it all the time yeah but i also think it's great to take those little vacations oh you get a great perspective yeah it's like suddenly you come back and you find the piece to the puzzle to make it work.

[1118] You need like little breaks.

[1119] But I think that's the case with virtually everything, that we all need perspective and you need discipline and you need the work ethic to do all, to put all the time in and do all the work.

[1120] But you also need to think clearly and you need enthusiasm.

[1121] And sometimes that, like, it's intelligent and it's discipline to take a break.

[1122] Yeah.

[1123] it is it's i i find it hard i mean i also like i'm somebody like i always arrive in a market with an hour of new material but and i have there's plenty of people that they do a special and then they take a break and they uh hang out and they might kind of slowly develop more material and to me that is i don't know if that's i'm on both sides of it i understand that value of it, but I also, there's, I don't, I don't have control of when the stuff's going to come out.

[1124] So I kind of want, I want to be paying attention when the material comes out.

[1125] Because sometimes, you know, the comedians all have this.

[1126] It's like, you had a great idea, but you didn't reach over for your phone when you were falling asleep.

[1127] And it's gone.

[1128] It's gone.

[1129] Forever.

[1130] That's, I jump up.

[1131] I'll put, I'll plug my ears and run out of the room.

[1132] If my wife and kids are talking.

[1133] talking if I have an idea.

[1134] That's good.

[1135] I used to not.

[1136] Of course.

[1137] But my wife is awesome about it.

[1138] Like, I'll just go, I have an idea.

[1139] And I just have to say it to her.

[1140] So she doesn't think I'm just playing with my phone while we're at dinner.

[1141] I just go, I got an idea.

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] And she'll let me do that.

[1144] But you have to do that.

[1145] If you don't do that, those things slip away.

[1146] They're like a salmon in a river.

[1147] Like, grab it.

[1148] That's right.

[1149] And we are the bear.

[1150] Oh, we are the bear.

[1151] And then the elk is watching.

[1152] And then Joe shoots the elk.

[1153] And the idea dies.

[1154] What does an elk sound like?

[1155] Like that.

[1156] And they're just huge.

[1157] They're like 500 pounds.

[1158] And what do they eat?

[1159] Are they vegetarian?

[1160] Yes.

[1161] Yeah, they're vegetarians.

[1162] And what about a bear?

[1163] Have you ever shot a bear?

[1164] Have you been to a brown bear?

[1165] No, black bear.

[1166] They're very good.

[1167] They taste good.

[1168] And you have to shoot them.

[1169] Otherwise, they eat everything.

[1170] They eat each other.

[1171] They eat all the elk babies.

[1172] They eat all the deer babies.

[1173] 50 % of all elk calves and deer fawns are eaten by bears.

[1174] 50%.

[1175] Yeah, they devastate populations.

[1176] But it's a balance of life, you know what I mean?

[1177] It's the circle of life.

[1178] Yes, but it's a balance.

[1179] It's like you have to, there has to be some control of predators.

[1180] Yeah, it's so interesting.

[1181] So interesting.

[1182] It's a wild world, and I've been involved in it since like 2012.

[1183] That's when I really got into it.

[1184] And so when you were growing up, did you hunt when you were a kid?

[1185] I did a lot of fishing.

[1186] Yeah.

[1187] And where did you grow up?

[1188] Well, I was born in New Jersey, but I lived in a lot of places.

[1189] I lived in San Francisco for a while from age seven.

[1190] to 11.

[1191] I lived in Florida from 11 to 13, and then Boston from 13 to 24, then New York.

[1192] Is it nature or nurture?

[1193] Are you because of you because of life experience, or were you born like this?

[1194] I think there's a little bit of both for sure.

[1195] And also some of it is, you know, you've been on this self.

[1196] You know, I feel like characterizing this is an insult, but it's not.

[1197] but you are somebody who's like I'm going to self -improve myself Yeah I try to do that all the time Mentally physically everything Elking But I think You can always do better Right And so how do you find out If you can do better Was that your mentality Was that your mentality In your early 20s?

[1198] Yeah I think it came from martial arts Yeah because if you don't Try to get better You wind up getting fucked up Like it's dangerous Like you get hurt You know Because I grew up from from high school From the time I was 15 until I was 21, all I did was travel the country and fight.

[1199] I competed with Mr. Miyagi.

[1200] No, he wasn't around back then.

[1201] But that's really what I did.

[1202] That's all I did.

[1203] And so that, the mentality had to be constantly looking to improve, figuring out what you're doing wrong, figuring out how to do better, and being brutally honest about your strengths and weaknesses.

[1204] Wow.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] We'll be right back.

[1207] It's a weird transition from that in the stand -up.

[1208] comedy you know but I think there's some parallels there's some parallels because bombing on stage is one of I've lost fights but bombing on stage might feel worse it might be the worst feeling you could ever feel other than like physical pain yeah you know there is something about it's I always think it's weird when people will say I could never do that and and in some ways I think comedians we forget because there are particularly at the beginning there are dark days.

[1209] There are levels of humiliation that most normal people would go, don't ever do this again.

[1210] But comedians are such lunatics that they're like, that's fine.

[1211] That's fine.

[1212] And by the way, what they don't realize is there's some of us that break through and we kind of figure it out.

[1213] But there are some people that try stand up, fail miserably, have the perseverance and never get better.

[1214] That's true.

[1215] It's brutal.

[1216] There's a certain mindset that never improves.

[1217] And I don't know what that is.

[1218] I don't know if it's a genetic thing.

[1219] If it's a lack of brain horsepower, there's certain people that just never get it.

[1220] They never get it.

[1221] And they try and they don't.

[1222] And they just, they never figure their way through.

[1223] And there is also something about, I have a big belief, that comedy changes, just as we were talking about, you know, there's a difference between political correctness and, like, there is a cultural trend that's almost kind of looking for someone making a mistake, that it's shifted every, I call it decades.

[1224] So, like, there is a, in the 80s, the, you know, at the peak of kind of Seinfeld's stand -up, which transformed into his show, he didn't need to provide any autobiographical information.

[1225] It was just jokes.

[1226] And there was also, and it was, even Carlin at his peak, he wasn't, he would provide some, he was grounded in authenticity, but it wasn't like, you know, I struggle with whether I'm a good dad or not.

[1227] It was, but in this day and age, there is we're such an exhibitionist and voyeuristic culture that there is a requirement of that where I think that when I watch stand up and you know and by the way I also believe that when people go all my stories everything's true that's true it's like it's it's not true it's it's it's inspired by truth but but authenticity is so important so when you hear a comedian say my girlfriend or my father and it's not true like that could have worked in the 80s but i think now the authenticity is the audience is like oh that's a great joke but that's not your girlfriend or your dad or your brother or like do you know what i'm saying yeah you have to maybe if you're like a real absurdist and like it's obvious you're lying about everything and that's part of the joke oh yeah yeah other than that yeah if you just make up a story and by the way i also think that In 10 years, it might be all lies.

[1228] But like now in this Kardashian kind of reality show era, people want to see a little bit behind.

[1229] You know, I mean, I think that whether it's Bert or Segura, there's these stories that people relish in their lives, in seeing their lives and sharing the experience.

[1230] and that's something that wasn't necessarily prevalent.

[1231] Or maybe I'm just talking on my ass.

[1232] No, no, I think you're right.

[1233] I mean, I think we didn't really know much about comics back in the day.

[1234] We just know about their act.

[1235] I mean, Pryor did this 40 years ago.

[1236] But he was an anomaly.

[1237] He was, you know, so unique.

[1238] And wouldn't it be amazing to see Pryor back then on a podcast?

[1239] Like, see Pryor and Gene Wilder sitting down just shooting the shit.

[1240] it for hours.

[1241] It was incredible.

[1242] Unbelievable.

[1243] I remember when I saw, when I, you know, was deep into stand -up, maybe like eight years when I went and consumed prior stuff again after, you know, being in the business.

[1244] It was so shocking how much had been stolen from him.

[1245] Like entire acts.

[1246] You're like, oh my gosh.

[1247] Yeah.

[1248] You know, that's in so -and -so special.

[1249] That's in, you know, every comedian that comes from a certain area does these jokes.

[1250] And it was, like, he was really revolutionary on so many different levels.

[1251] Forget the true gift of, like, being funny and autobiographical and kind of vulnerable.

[1252] Like, people don't realize that, like, when he did that show in Long Beach, it's like, and he open for Patty LaBelle.

[1253] Like, and people were coming in at the beginning.

[1254] It's like, that's absurd.

[1255] absurd that someone that was someone special do you remember when he was doing that special in long beach and there was a guy who walked up right to the stage with a camera he's like get the fuck out of here man go sit out and he left that in there left that in there and by the way people have to understand that that wasn't you know half those people were not they were there to see patty lebel yeah like that's really amazing yeah like that's super talent that's like you know Like, and I think Chappelle has that.

[1256] Chappelle has like just, you know, I don't know.

[1257] It's like almost like a level of genius where he's almost kind of like, I'm going to set up a hurdle for myself.

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] It's absurd.

[1260] Well, Chappelle is also constantly working, man. Like he just popped into the belly room two nights ago.

[1261] Just showed up.

[1262] Does a set in the belly room.

[1263] Does a set in the main room.

[1264] Goes over to the improv.

[1265] Constantly hopping around.

[1266] You know?

[1267] I've told this story before.

[1268] but it's a crazy one I was in Denver I was doing the Comedy Works and it's Friday night at 10 o 'clock show I get done I go into the green room Dave's there I go what are you doing man he goes oh what's up Joe I was just I decided to come by like he decided to come by meaning he flew into Denver on a private jet with no show set because he knew that I was going to be there and wanted to do a set so he just does what he wants like he just shows up and I go do you want to go up he goes oh shoot I go fuck yeah hold on a second I run back on stage, I tell the audience, I go, come back, sit down, Dave Chappelle's here.

[1269] They're like, what?

[1270] And so everybody comes back in and sits down.

[1271] I go, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Dave Chappelle.

[1272] He goes up and does 40 minutes.

[1273] Just free, just does it, but he's just doing that all the time.

[1274] It's not all for money.

[1275] It's all for the craft.

[1276] It's all for performing and working out the material just travels around and does these things.

[1277] Yeah.

[1278] And just shows up.

[1279] In D .C. does like 18 shows at the Warner, like over two and a half a week.

[1280] just does just is always always on top of it you know and that is why it's not just his his obvious talent and his brilliance but also his work ethic all those things combine it's there's not one without the other you don't just get the guy who takes six months off and he's just brilliant always and you wake him up and he's got the best set ever no it's like he's constantly grinding constantly yeah and i think with our with this art form that we do it requires diligence it requires maintenance.

[1281] It is totally diligent.

[1282] Yeah.

[1283] Do you write on paper?

[1284] Do you write on a laptop?

[1285] I do.

[1286] I don't even have my stuff here, but I'm always putting stuff down.

[1287] But like I, uh, you know, some of its bits and nubs, you know, like these are notes from like Ireland.

[1288] I mean, I love being in other cultures because I, not only do you see the eccentric side of their culture, but it also exposes how absurd our culture is.

[1289] Yeah.

[1290] But yeah, no, some of it is just, and also, you know, it's just, uh, just absurd, you know, it's like also in another country as opposed to cities.

[1291] It's so different.

[1292] And I am an American.

[1293] So I, I can just kind of horse around for 10 minutes.

[1294] And sometimes I'm doing the equivalent of like the subway joke, you know, like when people would come to New York and they're like, I was on the subway.

[1295] and you're like, don't do that.

[1296] But when I'm like in Spain, I'm like, you know what?

[1297] I'm probably doing the equivalent of a subway joke, but they appreciate the research.

[1298] And I really do, I do, I am fascinated by other cultures.

[1299] And I am fascinated in, you know, and kind of observing different things and understanding the history.

[1300] It's kind of like, I think that like visiting other countries is kind of similar to talking to like a really drunk, angry guy.

[1301] Like, if you're talking to a drunk, angry guy and you're like, I understand you.

[1302] I understand that, like, for 400 years, the English didn't let you make cheese.

[1303] Like, the drunk, angry guy's like, yeah, thank you for understanding that.

[1304] Do you know, they're not asking for it, but it's fun.

[1305] So do you mostly just write down notes and then work those notes out on stage?

[1306] Yeah, some of it, it's, you know, like, when I was in Ireland, And I went to Donigal, which I love.

[1307] What is Donnie Gall?

[1308] It's a county in the northwestern part of the Republic that should be part of Northern Ireland, but it was so Catholic that the British were like, you know, you guys can keep that one.

[1309] Like it's way up there and it's kind of relatively isolated.

[1310] So there's not American tourists.

[1311] It's really kind of just people that live there.

[1312] And I spend a week and then I did a show.

[1313] show in Letterkenny and um and i kind of was like picking on them but it was not you know not the roasting form but it was just you know because it's all gale talk you know like they speak gaelic that's so weird what does that sound like it sounds nothing like english it's it's really weird because it's you know you does have some english sounds in it not really well there'll be an English word that they'll just, I think they add a sheen to the end of an English word.

[1314] They're like, oh, you have to go to the airport a sheen.

[1315] And you're like, but I can barely under, it's kind of like the Scottish.

[1316] I can barely understand when they're speaking English.

[1317] But I loved it.

[1318] Northern Ireland's very interesting in that regard.

[1319] I was in Northern Ireland.

[1320] I was in Belfast and listening to people that were drunk, talk.

[1321] Oh, yeah.

[1322] You might as well been on another planet.

[1323] Well, by the way, those, the British Isles, including the Republic of Ireland.

[1324] There is something so tribal there.

[1325] Like there's something really interesting as an American that, you know, we have this cute notion of like, I'm Irish.

[1326] I drink too much.

[1327] Whereas like the Irish and the English and the Scottish and the Welsh, there is something that there, it kind of comes out at 11 o 'clock at night.

[1328] Like, you'll see a different side.

[1329] Like, I was at this, I was at this house party in Donegal.

[1330] And the next day I ran into the guy, he goes, and there was probably 10 adults there.

[1331] He was like, yeah, Jim, we drank 29 glasses, 21, 9 bottles of wine.

[1332] I'm like, what?

[1333] And I know that I maybe drank one of them.

[1334] But, and not, I don't think all the adults drank.

[1335] You know, by the way, in Ireland, not everyone drinks.

[1336] It's just the people that do drink really do it.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] So there's like, I think someone told me that.

[1339] percentage of, you know, Irish that drink is smaller than the rest of Europe, but the percentage that do drink.

[1340] And I can't even remember what I was going to say.

[1341] But it's just, I could talk about Ireland forever because it's so fast, oh, but around 11 o 'clock at night, there's something that happens.

[1342] And by the way, this guy was not drunk, but I was at this cocktail, this dinner party, and the kids are, everyone has five kids.

[1343] So, There's like five kids.

[1344] There's 400 kids in the backyard.

[1345] And this guy's just railing into me. He's like, he's like, you know, the media has already decided that it's Kamala Harris.

[1346] How can you decide?

[1347] And I'm like, wait a minute.

[1348] I'm like, first of all, what are you talking about?

[1349] And he just consumes, he's doing all this research and this guy, you know.

[1350] But he's convinced.

[1351] He goes, it's Kamala Harris.

[1352] The media big brothers have decided it's Kamala Harris.

[1353] And I'm like, Whoa.

[1354] And it's just fascinating, but it's, how do they know?

[1355] We don't know a fucking goddamn thing about their people.

[1356] The, the, some of it is, and by the way, people were kind of, how do you know this?

[1357] And some of it, but I bring that up because there was, uh, behind it was this tribalism, kind of like this, um, you know, and obviously the Irish are very different than the English, but there was something about this that was, um, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you.

[1358] you see it a little bit, you know, with Southerners that are kind of like, we're going to give you hell kind of thing.

[1359] But like, and I've seen it, you see it in England all the time.

[1360] Like 11 o 'clock, you're like, what happened to like Hugh Grant?

[1361] You know, it's just like a different world.

[1362] Well, once they abandoned all the niceties, you get to see who they really are.

[1363] Yeah.

[1364] Yeah, with a couple of pints in them, too.

[1365] It's super authentic, but it's also, like, that culture, and I know that you're the, But, like, the whole, like, oh, you know what it would be fun is to go out and drink a bunch of pints and then we'll get in a fight.

[1366] Like, to me, that sounds horrible.

[1367] But you would like that, wouldn't you?

[1368] No, no, I'm not interested in bar fights.

[1369] I think it's a terrible idea.

[1370] It's how people die, people get crippled.

[1371] But people do that all the time.

[1372] Oh, yeah.

[1373] I saw Andy Dick got unconscious.

[1374] Did you see that?

[1375] Oh, man. Yeah, I just saw that.

[1376] He got really fucked up.

[1377] I'll send it to you.

[1378] I hope he's all right.

[1379] He's definitely not all right.

[1380] he's a frail little fella you gotta get out of here i do oh there's a car waiting for you i was wondering what i have a meeting what's going on what's going on you're a fucking moving around a shaker you're a player out here in hollywood no i'm not at all but like i have this meeting of uh you know for a tv show it's a producer meeting but it is you the last question do you do you is it hard for you to balance because i know you've done a lot of acting gigs but i know you love stand -up is it hard for you to find like the time balance it's it's different uh because i I love stand -up.

[1381] I am a stand -up.

[1382] It's something that I'll have to do.

[1383] I'm sure it's the same with you.

[1384] It's like, you're going to do it until you die.

[1385] Yes, I think so.

[1386] Like when people are like, I can't believe Seinfeld went back to stand -up.

[1387] I'm like, of course he did.

[1388] He's a comedian.

[1389] But the acting is something that I love, but I don't view it as an income source.

[1390] You view it as a life.

[1391] I view it as it's something that, and by the way, you're a good actor.

[1392] Thank you.

[1393] I love it.

[1394] I love playing a character.

[1395] I love playing a bad guy.

[1396] Yeah, that seems fun.

[1397] Justifying, you know, every actor wants to play someone flawed, but I love playing these people that you don't have any sense of doubt why you're doing something in a scene.

[1398] Like, you're like, this is all I can do.

[1399] And afterwards, I love the moment when you're at craft service and there's somebody that looks at you like the character.

[1400] They're like, huh.

[1401] You know, I mean, I usually, I used to play.

[1402] a lot of nerds so people would be like dismissive of me and I annoyed that.

[1403] I'm like, look, I'm not the character.

[1404] But I love it when I'm playing someone who's kind of doing something maniacal and people are like, why would you do that?

[1405] Like, I'm just playing a guy that would kidnap somebody.

[1406] I'm not going to kidnap you.

[1407] I enjoy that kind of stuff, but I just, I do too many things as it is.

[1408] So I've kind of sworn off all acting.

[1409] Really?

[1410] Yeah, I abandoned it a couple years ago.

[1411] What if it was the perfect role?

[1412] I mean, it's highly inefficient, but I just think it's so fun like i sent you that link to the movie and i want you to watch it because i think if you watch it you're going to go oh i get it oh i do get it i get it i just can't do it but it's like that was like by uh i remember that was like three weeks and ever you know in weekends i had shows it was really inefficient it was all night shoots it was utter insanity but you're happy with the result but that's one of those where it worked it worked i think also it's it's more experience in life in general that i think in enhances your stand -up.

[1413] I think it's difficult for us to look at it that way.

[1414] But I think the more different things you do, the more different experiences that you have, the more your perspective gets enhanced.

[1415] Yeah.

[1416] And there's moments that are almost parallel that, you know, obviously as a comedian, we love the laughs and we love kind of creating, changing someone's mood.

[1417] And similar to, you know, alleviating the tension and stand -up and acting, like sitting in that tension and just kind of twisting a knife in the audience.

[1418] It's kind of exhilarating.

[1419] And something unique that you're only going to get in acting.

[1420] Yes.

[1421] Yeah.

[1422] Jim Gaffigin, you're a bad motherfucker.

[1423] Please tell everybody when your new special drops.

[1424] Friday.

[1425] This Friday?

[1426] I think Friday.

[1427] Oh my goodness.

[1428] What is today?

[1429] Wednesday?

[1430] Yes.

[1431] You have two days, folks.

[1432] Two days.

[1433] But they can add it to their watch list.

[1434] But next time you go to Amazon to buy your paper towels, of your socks, just check it out.

[1435] Check it out, bitches.

[1436] Please.

[1437] Thank you, sir.

[1438] Thank you, buddy.

[1439] My pleasure.

[1440] Thank you.

[1441] Thanks for nicotine gum, too.

[1442] Now I'm addicted.

[1443] I totally...