LIVE FROM BROOKLYN: Jason Biggs

[0] I just want to say you're the real fucking armcherry's 10 o 'clock show that's really something um you guys one of the arm cherries is drunk everybody keep your eyes on your six someone's a little rowdy back there I wasn't planning on doing this but it does remind me of a story um my father and I were one time in Florida on vacation I was 14, and we went and saw a Stephen Segal movie, like, yeah, Stephen, under siege or something.

[1] It was, you know, suffice to say, there was a lot of karate and stuff.

[2] We love the movie.

[3] That goes without saying.

[4] And we're walking out as a pretty packed movie, and I'm walking next to my dad, and he goes, stay alert.

[5] It was a kind of movie, a guy will kick you in the fucking back walking out of, And I go, what?

[6] He goes, there's kind of movies, I'm a karate kick you in the back.

[7] And it's like, in my dad's worldviews, sometimes you're leaving a movie and a stranger karate kicks you in the back.

[8] And for years, that never made sense to me. And then one time I was leaving the movies with my wife, we were leaving a parking garage, and there was like a long line to pay at the toll booth.

[9] And we were in a truck, and I go, yeah, I wonder if anyone's just ever just driven over that little parking curb and out the sidewalk there and left.

[10] And I said that out loud because I was considering driving over the parking thing and just leaving.

[11] And then I realized all of a sudden, oh, my God, my dad was thinking about kicking somebody in the back.

[12] And he thought, shit, I can't be the only one thinking about kicking someone in the back.

[13] Watch your six.

[14] Okay, from the bottom of my heart, Monica and I sit in a stuffy attic a couple times a week.

[15] and it's so hard for us to imagine that there are all of you real human beings that like us so much that you would leave your houses, get a babysitter, spend time with a strange Uber driver, all those things that you would come in and support us like this.

[16] It really blows our mind.

[17] We can't even believe it.

[18] It makes us so happy.

[19] It's so fun to be able to share this experience with all of you guys.

[20] Okay, so a little woodland creature snuck into my cat.

[21] carry -on bag.

[22] And when I opened it up at the hotel, it was the one and only Manika Padman.

[23] We're coming.

[24] We are so, we, this brings us such joy.

[25] You guys have no idea doing these live shows and seeing all of you in the flesh.

[26] You guys, um, a good friend of mine is joining us tonight.

[27] He is, uh, the sweetest guy.

[28] Uh, we are on a similar trajectory through life, uh, which we'll learn about.

[29] Uh, he is the one and only.

[30] the lovable Jason Biggs is here tonight I thought that might be the one time I could start a chant and it didn't work it's going for bigs, bigs, bigs, bigs hey before we launch into this this may blow your mind because of blue mine who here do we think came furthest you?

[31] From where?

[32] Thank you for calling Lucifer's pizza Oh no, no, no. For Romero's location Press 1 for our heel horse location for us to you.

[33] That's pretty damn far, Australia.

[34] Do I like pineapple?

[35] Oh, my pizza.

[36] If you're buying, I'll eat a dead rat.

[37] I don't care.

[38] It'll come with the cheese and the sauce still, right?

[39] Welcome from Australia.

[40] All right, without further ado, let me get my cheat sheet.

[41] I prepared a ton of questions for you.

[42] Six.

[43] I'm so curious what you dug up.

[44] Well, I was shocked to learn this about you.

[45] You're an Emmy nominee.

[46] Yeah.

[47] I don't say that in me. I was so surprised.

[48] You were nominated for something.

[49] Your work was recognized.

[50] This is weird.

[51] Would you like to explain?

[52] No. No. The only TV show I associate you with.

[53] is orange is the new black.

[54] Right, right.

[55] But I think I would have heard that you were nominated for an Emmy.

[56] So I was not, yeah, it's, there is an asterisk, I think, next to the, well, because, um, it was, it was a daytime Emmy.

[57] All due respect.

[58] If there's any daytime Emmy, all do respect.

[59] If there's any daytime Emmy nominees in the audience.

[60] No, it was for, uh, daytime Emmy winners got 50 % off tickets.

[61] Oh, wow.

[62] Yeah.

[63] That'd be great to offer deals that you knew no one.

[64] Like, Super Bowl champions, 90 % off.

[65] Totally.

[66] Totally.

[67] If you are above seven feet tall, free meal, free wings.

[68] Everest Summeters, 90 % off.

[69] Yeah, so it was, when was that?

[70] It was 94, and it was for, as the world turns.

[71] And I played, thank you.

[72] I played.

[73] I played Pete Wendell, a troubled teenager.

[74] Okay.

[75] And I...

[76] What kind of troubles?

[77] Well, let's see.

[78] He, you know, kind of regular teenage mischief, including finding $800 ,000 of stolen ransom money and then deciding to spend it on things like ice skates.

[79] Literally there was an episode where I had to like, like, yo, check out these new ice skates I got.

[80] And they're like built on this shitty set on 57th Street.

[81] They built like this fake it was like plastic that you could skate on kind of.

[82] There were real skates but it was like plastic.

[83] Spray painted white.

[84] Yeah, I mean it was horrible and like I fell every take and I was like, this is some bullshit.

[85] So I did it, I did the show for about a year and I was, yeah, I was 15 and I was called into, one day I was called into the executive producer's office, and he essentially fired me. Oh, right?

[86] And I was like, whoa, this is heavy.

[87] I'm 15, okay, you know, like, just kind of my first, like, oh, so that's how this shape goes.

[88] And he chalked it up to, it was storyline reasons, which I have to believe, I do believe, first of all, for my ego, but also I just really don't think there was any, I didn't do anything wrong that I remember.

[89] but it probably was a pretty boring storyline.

[90] Like, I don't really...

[91] I mean, I just bought ice skates with ransom money for...

[92] But it earned you an Emmy.

[93] What's that?

[94] So, so I get fired, and I'm like...

[95] And it, like, crushed me. You have to be devastated.

[96] I was devastated.

[97] Yeah.

[98] And right before...

[99] So right before I'd gotten that part, I'd been acting since I was a little kid, but I hadn't worked in a while, right?

[100] And, like, a year or two.

[101] It was really slow.

[102] Which was one -tenth of your life at that age.

[103] Just want to point that out.

[104] It's longer to him than it is to us.

[105] Even more than that, it was a pretty crucial year, or two years.

[106] It was the beginning of high school for me. Like eighth grade going into high school and that transition.

[107] Pubic hair.

[108] Pubicare.

[109] The whole thing.

[110] And I...

[111] Nocturnal emissions.

[112] You don't have to admit to that.

[113] Oh, coming.

[114] Nighttime coming.

[115] Lots of the missions.

[116] Sleepy time coming.

[117] Yes, yes.

[118] Totally.

[119] Humping the bed sheets.

[120] Like, what the fuck?

[121] I've got to wash these now.

[122] And I, so it was like weird.

[123] I was like acting.

[124] And so I couldn't, you know, play sports.

[125] And this is the violin playing portion of the story.

[126] And like I didn't have friends, basically.

[127] It was like a really weird, awkward time in my life.

[128] And I remember driving into that audition at 14.

[129] years old and telling my mom I gotta stop this acting thing like this is I like have no friends I'm not hanging out just in case I get an audition like I'm not playing sports I'm not doing anything and so she was like okay like whatever you want to do and so I was like yeah I think this is it I'm done and I auditioned and I got the part and I was like yeah I'm back and then less than a year later they're like you're not back you're actually fire and I was like fuck now another year has got gone by, we're like, I don't have any friends.

[130] And, um, but I remember I was crushed.

[131] And then two weeks later, the Emmy nominations come out and I was the only fucking guy nominated from the show.

[132] And I was like, yeah, and then I didn't win, and I wanted to kill myself again.

[133] Now, we're, I'm, we're joking about as the world turns, but I would have played the ice skates on that show.

[134] Like, I would be thrilled to have been on that show, especially at 14 years old.

[135] I was stoked.

[136] No, it was great.

[137] Yeah, but you, first of all, you're from around here.

[138] You're from New Jersey, right?

[139] Bergen County, New Jersey, yep.

[140] Garden State, I directed a movie after it.

[141] You guys saw it.

[142] Did you guys like that movie I made about your state, Garden State?

[143] Now, your mother was a nurse, or you guys, Or is, I don't know.

[144] She still is.

[145] Still is.

[146] Still is.

[147] Yep.

[148] This is just a weird side note.

[149] Do you know these people with Moonchausen by proxy?

[150] No. Well, it's where you make your kids sick so you can get attention.

[151] Right.

[152] It's dark.

[153] That's heavy.

[154] Almost all of them are nurses.

[155] This is the weirdest.

[156] Well, well, well.

[157] Almost all of them.

[158] Anything over 51 % is almost all.

[159] Okay.

[160] I stand by almost.

[161] all.

[162] I'll fact check this for real.

[163] Did you ever catch your mom like poisoning you or anything?

[164] No. Okay.

[165] All right.

[166] Well, that's...

[167] I didn't catch her, but now that I kicked about it.

[168] Yeah, it's not normal for a guy to have fatty liver at 12.

[169] But now your dad, and when I read this, I was so excited, your dad was a shipping company manager.

[170] Yep.

[171] That sounds so mafioso, doesn't it?

[172] Totally.

[173] It definitely does.

[174] I mean, it sounds like sanitation, management.

[175] Yeah, wink, wink.

[176] In your Italian, not to stereotype, and in Jersey with a shipping company manager, a lot of ships coming in, a lot of ships coming in, a lot of shit, some fall off.

[177] Did your dad ever come home?

[178] Like, 32 VCRs or anything?

[179] Yeah.

[180] Yeah, he did.

[181] He did.

[182] No, what did your dad do?

[183] That's so funny, because it's true.

[184] He definitely encountered that where he was.

[185] So he, it's to this day pretty nebulous what he did.

[186] And I, I, again, he only supports the, sure, exactly.

[187] All of his shipping company means were at Bada Bing.

[188] He always just wore leather jackets a lot.

[189] Drove an escalate.

[190] Was at the strip club, most of his, I, uh, so he, so he, He basically handled for this one shipping company at the Port of New York in New Jersey.

[191] It's a huge shipping port, and he would just sort of keep track of inventory that was coming in on certain trains and stuff.

[192] Still sounds mafia -like.

[193] The more I explained it, I think my dad was in the mob.

[194] Yeah.

[195] Fuck, it's kind of cool, actually.

[196] Yeah.

[197] I always thought he had the lamest job.

[198] Maybe he had the coolest job.

[199] Glass half full.

[200] You start poking around your backyard.

[201] Most time you're at the family houses Yeah Take a little poker and you Ooh, that felt like a rib That's funny That's funny There were always patches missing grass Right Like six feet by And would you go see dad at work?

[202] Yeah, I would in fact So yeah It was very cool for a kid It was a cool, yeah And I actually got to take Sid My oldest son there Just this past year So he was four And so I was like you know, I think he's like right at the age.

[203] And my dad's like, can I take him?

[204] And I was like, you know what, let's do it.

[205] Yeah.

[206] And we went down there and he had the best fucking time.

[207] Did he get to go up in a crane?

[208] He did not get to go up.

[209] I got to go up when I was a kid.

[210] But I think the rules have changed a little bit.

[211] Sure, sure.

[212] You know, a little bit more liability concerns.

[213] So he did not, but he still had a great time.

[214] And then my dad actually just lost his job recently.

[215] You're kidding.

[216] No, I swear to God.

[217] It's, um, he, uh, yeah, he was shot and killed by, his uh he's buried in my backyard he lost his job and uh yeah he's somewhere in the meadowlands underneath giant stadium no he um but he did he lost his job and it was like it was it um he was due to retire anyway but they were like downsizing and he was like eking it out eking it out he didn't want to but he knew he was going to but anyway kind of they forced his hand it was kind of annoying kind of sad this just happened well first of all sorry yeah right bummer what's his name I uh Uh, is it, what did you say, dad?

[218] Dad, dad, I thought.

[219] Dad bigs, dad, dad, dad, daddy.

[220] I mean, I stopped, he changed his name from daddy to dad when I was like 18, but I thought that was, uh, Gary, Gary.

[221] But was it a, was it, was it, was it, Gary Bumbats.

[222] Oh, good, good.

[223] Yeah.

[224] Uh, was it because automation has improved or, or, or ageism?

[225] Oh, that is.

[226] No, no, no, that's exactly right.

[227] Exactly.

[228] It was all, he was literally, you know, there was a whole office supporting this sort of tracking of the inventory.

[229] Which AI is now.

[230] And then by the end, it was just my dad.

[231] Oh, really?

[232] Just my dad in this office for like the last two years.

[233] So, I mean, the writing was on the wall, but it was still a bummer, you know?

[234] Yeah.

[235] But anyway, I'm glad the reason I thought of that was like, I'm glad Sid got to go down before he, yeah.

[236] Just the computer kids can go.

[237] Right, exactly.

[238] The computer doors.

[239] The offspring of computers are little tiny toaster ovens rolling around there.

[240] They stayed married, right?

[241] They did.

[242] Yeah, they're still married.

[243] It's a very matriarchal house.

[244] My mom sort of ran the show.

[245] Yeah, get it, girls.

[246] Time's up, motherfuckers.

[247] Any of your sister's hot?

[248] Hashtag me too, bro.

[249] Fuck, dude.

[250] Mait charcoal.

[251] So, um, I'm Sicilian.

[252] Yeah, her family was Sicilian.

[253] Yeah, her family's Sicilian.

[254] Tough, tough, tough, tough, tough broad.

[255] Yeah, she's no joke.

[256] Still.

[257] Gamora.

[258] Gamora, yeah, pretty much.

[259] Okay, good.

[260] And dad's only half tough, right?

[261] He's like half Irish.

[262] Yeah, English is, it bigs is English.

[263] 100 % alcoholic, you know.

[264] Pretty much.

[265] Well, no, his dad apparently was full on, yeah.

[266] Which was interesting because then growing up, my parents were very, like anti, super, super anti.

[267] To the point where like one drink equaled, well, you're going to die and, you know, you're going to, that's it.

[268] You're going to leave the house, you're going to have one beer, and you're going to wrap yourself around a tree.

[269] Goodbye, I guess.

[270] And I was like, oh, my God.

[271] Cheers.

[272] Fuck, yeah, saloon.

[273] Chantani.

[274] Yeah, but And they were Roman Catholic.

[275] The Roman Catholic grew up Catholic.

[276] I keep saying they, as if they've had some huge turnaround, but they're Roman Catholic.

[277] Yeah.

[278] Yes.

[279] Well, it's interesting.

[280] they, they, yeah, the ebbs and flows of religion in my house, it was always, you know, we were like Christmas Catholics, basically, but some, some years it was more extreme than others.

[281] Some years, it was more than just Christmas.

[282] Right.

[283] Um, we went to Sunday school.

[284] Oh, well, that's, because, yeah, we like got confirmed.

[285] We did all that stuff.

[286] I hated it, man. It's, hated it.

[287] It's not a blast for a kid.

[288] It's definitely not fun.

[289] Even if you still believe, that's great.

[290] It's just not fun.

[291] Yeah, it just was never fun.

[292] And also because I didn't see them, they sort of picked and chose when they were going to, you know, be it.

[293] Right?

[294] So for me, I had this early impression that it was just sort of, you know, either believe it or don't believe it.

[295] You know what I mean?

[296] But the sort of wishy -washy.

[297] Like, what's thick on dad's collar, all of a sudden and we're at church once a week.

[298] Exactly right.

[299] On our knees.

[300] Exactly right.

[301] So I guess if dad is a shipping logistics genius and mom is a nurse, how at five do you develop an interest in acting?

[302] So I have an older sister who is here.

[303] She's sitting in two different seats.

[304] She's, yeah, she threw her voice.

[305] She's always been good with impressions and throwing her voice.

[306] So when she was a kid, she was in this, this, like, dance group in New Jersey, just this sort of, as a hobby initially.

[307] But she was quite good.

[308] And then she got into this sort of touring group.

[309] And I don't know, they did quite well.

[310] They kind of toured around the East Coast and stuff.

[311] And then she, because of our proximity to New York, a lot of the other girls in the group started getting agents and managers and doing.

[312] the acting and Broadway thing, and Heather, my sister wanted to do it as well.

[313] And my parents are like, okay, I mean, you know, it'd be a good way to save money for college if you worked.

[314] And so she got an agent, she got an manager, and she started working.

[315] Yeah, she actually worked pretty consistently for a few years as a kid.

[316] And when I was five, I guess her manager asked if I would want to go on an audition or something.

[317] And what's the age gap between you?

[318] She's seven years, my senior.

[319] So kind of a big gap.

[320] And then I have a younger sister who's two and a half years younger.

[321] Okay.

[322] And at one point, all three of us were doing it.

[323] And then I just sort of, um, they both stopped when they got like middle school, high school.

[324] Um, and I just, I loved it and I, and I worked a ton.

[325] Yeah.

[326] So at five, what kind of stuff are you doing?

[327] Like commercials?

[328] Commercials.

[329] Commercials, modeling stuff, obviously.

[330] Um, but like, yeah, like kids.

[331] you know, like the J .C. Penny Cadillard.

[332] Sure.

[333] Kristen did those, too.

[334] Yeah.

[335] Yeah.

[336] So, uh...

[337] And were you aware of the fact that you were making money?

[338] I was aware of it at a certain point, surely.

[339] I mean, when I, um...

[340] That's a really good question.

[341] I mean, obviously at that age, I was.

[342] Because you want shit, right?

[343] You wanted a Nintendo and all the games.

[344] You wanted...

[345] Right, and that's why I'm thinking about it, because at a certain point, I remember being aware of it, because I would sort of say, like, well, I didn't I, you know, I would, you know, I would $90 ,000 last year.

[346] Why can't I have Lake Tyson's punch out?

[347] Exactly.

[348] I mean, $90 ,000.

[349] I want a fucking stomper.

[350] I'll buy you one too, Ma.

[351] I'll buy you a fucking car if you let me buy.

[352] But I do remember that sort of those conversations happening.

[353] But I just work.

[354] Can I get a thing?

[355] And their whole thing, and they stayed consistent through all of my childhood to their credit, which was you're doing this to put away money for college.

[356] If you turn 18 and you choose not to go to college, which I would advise against, but if that's what you choose, do whatever the fuck you want with your money.

[357] So high school, you alluded to the fact that you weren't crushing, for lack of a better term.

[358] Yep.

[359] Yep.

[360] So they all know this, but you don't know this about me, but seventh grade for me, I was Brad Pitt.

[361] I believe that.

[362] If I could live a single year in my life over and over again, it would be seventh grade.

[363] It never got better than that.

[364] You peaked.

[365] And eighth grade was pretty good.

[366] I retained about 90 % of the coolness.

[367] And then I switched and went to another high school, gained four inches, lost 20 pounds, terrible mullet, acne, fucking wake -up call dax.

[368] Yeah, I bet, man. Oh my God.

[369] So I had two years.

[370] of just I would look at a girl and I could see I was just dead invisible like she's maybe try to see past the mullet or whatever she would literally walk into you yes you're like what sorry my brother convinced me I should have a perm on top but keep it straight and back so I'd have sweet permanent upstairs and then just sheet of hair and back fucking huge nose acne wafer thin what a look that's amazing yeah at a certain point when you go through that everyone should go through that because at a certain point I said to myself going into 11th grade no one's going to turn their head and look at you.

[371] That's just that.

[372] So that ship sailed.

[373] Your currency is going to be your personality.

[374] You've got to up the game.

[375] You've got to learn to dance.

[376] You've got to tell some jokes.

[377] Be funny.

[378] Sure.

[379] Ride a motorcycle.

[380] All those things.

[381] Yeah.

[382] Did you have that moment where you're like, okay, I'm not the quarterback of the football team.

[383] That's your sister.

[384] Don't worry.

[385] That's a sibling thing.

[386] She knows that I, she remembers vividly when I came home and was like, fuck, I'm not the quarterback of the football team.

[387] Yeah, I always felt different because, because of the acting thing, really.

[388] It was always a little weird and no one else was doing what I was doing.

[389] And so it was very strange.

[390] And you know, back at the normal like, you know, you picked on and stuff, you know, for it.

[391] I was never, I never thought that I would, that I would be that.

[392] But I definitely realized, yeah, that it was going to be personality for sure.

[393] Which I knew that, which I also had already at At that point, I had sort of, I had also gotten the sort of, what's the word I'm looking for, the encouragement from doing the acting, right?

[394] So I'd already been, I would get parts that called for the funny, whatever.

[395] So like, I had had that sort of going for me and I felt confident in that world already.

[396] Yes.

[397] But then I would come back to my town and would feel other than and be like, oh, fuck, I'm a loser.

[398] but I know that I can do this, right?

[399] So as I got a little bit older in high school and girls and the whole thing, it was definitely my...

[400] And you had the advantage of being raised basically by a sister, right?

[401] That's a pretty big advantage, because you know how to talk to gals.

[402] Totally, yeah.

[403] Yeah, I mean, it was weird.

[404] It was a weird age gap.

[405] I definitely learned a lot from her, but, like, she was out of the house and in college, like, you know, I think before I hit middle school.

[406] Like, you know, I think I was seventh grade and she was in college.

[407] Right.

[408] So it was sort of a weird.

[409] I don't know.

[410] I kind of remember those sort of awkward years kind of being on my own a little bit.

[411] Now, what's crazy to me is that you were on Broadway at 12 years old, yeah?

[412] You did your first, was that your first play on Broadway?

[413] Yep, that was my first play.

[414] It was in 91.

[415] I think I saw it was 12.

[416] We did it actually in Seattle, at the Seattle rep, and then came back and did it on Broadway the following year.

[417] 13, and then I turned 14 during the Broadway run.

[418] We did it for about a year.

[419] This one, the pubic hair.

[420] And I was playing a 10 -year -old, yeah.

[421] And at that point, I was like...

[422] Oh, you were playing...

[423] Were there any girls in it your age?

[424] No. You were the only child.

[425] There was one other kid.

[426] You know Dave Kromholtz?

[427] Yeah.

[428] Yeah, I love him.

[429] So Dave, that was his first job.

[430] He was literally plucked from Forest Hills Middle School, like a production of Bye Bye Birdie.

[431] Uh -huh.

[432] So, like, open casting call.

[433] They were trying to find this kid.

[434] and they found crumholtz.

[435] You guys know Dave?

[436] He's like one of the funniest people in the world.

[437] He's like...

[438] That was Dave.

[439] That was Dave.

[440] Dave and my sister and his sister.

[441] But yeah, so the two of us.

[442] So you were in an adult world for two years.

[443] Yeah.

[444] And what is that experience like?

[445] Super weird.

[446] I mean, fun.

[447] So I would literally like, you know, I'd go to school during the day.

[448] And then I'd come home and I'd do a little bit of home.

[449] homework.

[450] My mother would drive me in to the city and I do the show and then...

[451] Because you're doing like eight shows a week?

[452] Are you in regular schedule?

[453] Yep.

[454] Oh my goodness.

[455] And it was a, it was not a short play.

[456] I was only in the first act and then my character was older in the second act, but I had a stay for curtain call.

[457] So I would use the second act to do more homework.

[458] And then curtain call was like 1045.

[459] Do that.

[460] Get in the car.

[461] My dad would pick me up.

[462] Drive back to Jersey.

[463] Hopefully no traffic.

[464] Get home 1130, 12, go to sleep, and then get up at six, and finish whatever homework I had, and then go to school again.

[465] Jesus.

[466] And it was like this weird, just, like, fucking groundhog day, crazy, except for Wednesdays I would leave school early to go do the matinee.

[467] And then the weekend, when all these kids, all my friends, well, I didn't have many friends, but my friend.

[468] Yeah.

[469] When friend would be playing.

[470] Yeah, yeah.

[471] But it was like, yay, weekend.

[472] And I'm like, yay, four shows.

[473] And I would go in and do, you know, crazy weekend of shows.

[474] And then all my, all of the theater people were like, yay, Monday, day off.

[475] And I'd be like, yay, back to school.

[476] Fuck you.

[477] Yeah.

[478] It was a really crazy year.

[479] Did you like it or did you quickly get disillusioned?

[480] I liked it.

[481] But I reckon, it was definitely, I'll tell you what I liked about it.

[482] I liked that when I came into New York and.

[483] I was at the theater and especially when I was performing there was nothing up to that point in my life that I enjoyed more, right?

[484] It was clear doing that play for me that it was the best thing ever.

[485] I was incredibly lucky and I would love to do it for the rest of my life.

[486] Like that was so that was obviously an amazing part of the experience but I was exhausted.

[487] I mean, I was definitely tired.

[488] You would have been six, too.

[489] I would have been what?

[490] Six foot two your parents' time.

[491] If you didn't have that period.

[492] It's so weird, man. I like yeah.

[493] And had pneumonia, almost the whole brought up.

[494] That your mom gave you?

[495] What's that?

[496] That my mom gave me. Mononucleosis.

[497] But do you think that you liked the control aspect of it?

[498] Of the theater specifically?

[499] Of performing.

[500] Yeah.

[501] Like you go into a high school scenario and there's all these variables and you have zero control over any of them, but you go on stage and then you know what that person's going to say and then I can control how I'm going to do this like...

[502] Yeah, absolutely.

[503] Yes, for sure.

[504] It felt safe.

[505] It definitely felt safe.

[506] Especially when you're that age, you don't really have too much autonomy over anything in life.

[507] And then all of a sudden, you're the boss of that 10 minutes or whatever the hell it is, right?

[508] Yeah, and...

[509] You're entrusted, too.

[510] It's a huge...

[511] Huge responsibility.

[512] Yes, that you're giving in a little kid.

[513] Totally.

[514] And I knew it and felt it and appreciated it.

[515] And also, like, you know, at home, I mean, my parents and I have a very good relationship at the moment.

[516] We do, at the moment.

[517] But there were some years in there where it was really hard.

[518] I mean, I'm sure a lot of it's just sort of normal.

[519] teenage stuff, but it was also very, I grew up in a very operatic household, right?

[520] Like, it was very loud, a lot of, big emotions, supercharged.

[521] For better or for worse, mostly for worse, at least at that age.

[522] It was not the healthiest place at times, right?

[523] And my parents were very strict, incredibly strict.

[524] Oh, really?

[525] Yeah.

[526] And so, um, I felt, you know, at times very out of control there and very, you know, the opposite of autonomous.

[527] I mean, just really...

[528] The victim of these.

[529] Yeah.

[530] Yeah.

[531] Whatever whimsy.

[532] The whims, exactly.

[533] And so, so for sure, it was a wonderful escape and great autonomy.

[534] Yeah.

[535] And that responsibility I really connected with.

[536] Like, oh, shit, okay.

[537] I'm trusted with this.

[538] I would imagine you learn to have a compartmentalized existence and you learn to have a secret existence where it's like, I'm, Jokes on you, motherfuckers.

[539] I'm a whole different person in the city.

[540] It was weird because they...

[541] That's a dodgy skill set to develop as we'll learn in a minute.

[542] Yeah.

[543] Yeah, I mean, it definitely...

[544] And they saw that.

[545] You end up having to lie to parents like that, right?

[546] You have to act like you're not doing anything or...

[547] Oh, yeah, for sure.

[548] Yeah, it was weird.

[549] I mean, I definitely...

[550] What I was going to say was...

[551] Because my parents were a part of that.

[552] like when the play was in it's sort of when it was really running you know they would just drop me off and then come and pick me up so i actually did have that sort of actually here's what it was there were three there was there was there was dave and i and then there was our understudy who understudy both of us so we were the three miners that had to be there every night and so there had to be a guardian with us and a catholic priest yeah exactly he was very gentle we still keep in touch they're not all gentle yeah I'm so sorry to any Catholic priests in the audience but next show 90 % off to all Catholic priests so we had to have so basically our parents would take turns so one week it would be my parents week So one of my parents would have to be there during the show, and we would trade off.

[553] But for, you know, two out of three weeks, I was dropped off and was allowed to sort of play in this adult world for three and a half hours.

[554] And it did become my sort of secret little world.

[555] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[556] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[557] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[558] Now, you graduate high school.

[559] You've accumulated some money.

[560] They told you it's for college.

[561] And then you did go to college for three weeks.

[562] Yeah, yeah.

[563] Yes.

[564] Great job.

[565] Good job.

[566] That's 15 school days.

[567] Listen, Mom, you said it was for college.

[568] I fucking went, all right?

[569] Give me my dough.

[570] So you go to college for three weeks.

[571] Yeah.

[572] And that's 18.

[573] And between 18 and 21, before we get to a big chapter in your life, are you working, are you supporting yourself?

[574] Are you living off that sweet, sweet as the world turns money?

[575] I, so what happens?

[576] So I left, I was at NYU, I left NYU after a couple weeks, and I took a semester off.

[577] I just didn't like NYU.

[578] And by the way, part of it, I'm sure, was that I knew I was paying for it with my money.

[579] And NYU was not cheap.

[580] And I was miserable.

[581] And I was commuting from home, from Jersey.

[582] Oh, fuck that.

[583] Which was the worst.

[584] Yeah.

[585] It was the worst.

[586] I did not get the experience.

[587] It was just, yeah, it just didn't, it was just not fun for me. Well, in fairness, you gave it three weeks, but...

[588] I did give it three weeks.

[589] Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah.

[590] I gave it the old college truck.

[591] I would say you gave it the college strike.

[592] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I really didn't give it the college truck.

[593] Oh, wait, no, no, no, hold on, wait, that's wrong.

[594] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, that's wrong.

[595] Okay, hold on.

[596] That was a different college.

[597] That was just a different college.

[598] Hold on, yes.

[599] So, so I went to NYU.

[600] I gave it a full semester.

[601] I gave NYU a full semester.

[602] Hated it.

[603] I, I remember taking, I took, economics.

[604] I took econ and like one one was like a required creative writing course and then two other courses I don't even remember but I took economics which was like I love how you say economics I'm supposed to economics?

[605] I say economics I could be wrong Monaco will find out.

[606] I think you're right if it's the subject the subject economics as opposed to the verb when you economic you can say it like that.

[607] These people do economics but I'm studying economics but I'm studying economics.

[608] That's the difference.

[609] Dude, I just economics the shit out of a six -inch sub at Subway.

[610] They all believe me. I have so much power here.

[611] It's crazy.

[612] It is crazy.

[613] I made it all.

[614] Fact check that fact check.

[615] Yeah, and I remember getting up in the middle of my econ final.

[616] I think I'd answered like one question.

[617] Wrong, I'm sure.

[618] But it was like a three -hour final.

[619] Oh, geez.

[620] And I had decided before I even went in that I was not coming back.

[621] And so, I, I answered, like, one question, or wrote, gave it the old college track.

[622] And I got up, you know, like pencil down, got up, like, walked with such confidence to the TA, handed in by everyone in the class was like, wow.

[623] How?

[624] I was like, it's done.

[625] It's done.

[626] I did it.

[627] Will hunting style.

[628] Yeah, I was like, you guys are still working on this?

[629] Yeah, and so failed it, of course, and failed the class.

[630] And I took a semester off, and I worked at, I was still auditioning, but wasn't working that much, and so, at all.

[631] And so I was working at Gap Kids, actually a Gap Kids Baby Gap combo store.

[632] Great, so all your infant needs, really, at one -stop shopping.

[633] But it's interesting because I can fold the shit out of a toddler onesie.

[634] I bet now you're happy Now I'm thrilled Yeah Yeah I bet Jenny's No folding board Nothing Just in the air Just boom Boom Brilliantly So I have to ask One purvey question Again It won't be the last You're working in a kid's shop And the gales are coming in You know New moms and stuff You seem fun and everything You know Were they asking you out or anything?

[635] It just seems like, you know.

[636] Not where I thought you were going with that question.

[637] Me either.

[638] Me either.

[639] I don't think anyone here thought that's where you were going, but I'm grateful that that's where you went.

[640] Well, like I had a buddy who worked in the produce department at a grocery store.

[641] Sounds exactly the same.

[642] Yes, please, go on.

[643] It's just an ideal job for a young man. Okay.

[644] Oh, whatever.

[645] I'm sorry I got us off course.

[646] I have a lot of Baby Gap fantasies.

[647] There were definitely a lot of young man. Sure, who doesn't?

[648] Who doesn't?

[649] Who doesn't?

[650] Who doesn't?

[651] Yeah, so anyways.

[652] You're not...

[653] You're folding the shit out of the onesies.

[654] No, I actually started folding.

[655] I started dating.

[656] I folded the shit out of this one girl.

[657] Dude, I don't even know.

[658] I started dating one of the other cashiers.

[659] Oh, perfect.

[660] So that was hot.

[661] Okay, great.

[662] That makes it happy.

[663] That's normal levels of hot.

[664] Yeah, yeah.

[665] Nothing hotter than talking shop.

[666] But I would think about the children's clothes when we hooked up.

[667] That's fair.

[668] Is that pervy enough?

[669] Yeah, that's good.

[670] Okay, cool.

[671] You never put your genitalia in the little socks.

[672] No, there it is.

[673] There it is.

[674] Now we did it.

[675] That's where I thought it was going to get there.

[676] I knew we'd get there.

[677] I took the long route.

[678] It took a while to get there.

[679] I knew you could do it.

[680] Yeah.

[681] Worth the wall.

[682] You never fail on that.

[683] I knew you could do it.

[684] Oh, boy.

[685] So.

[686] So we have kids.

[687] So, took that wonderful semester off and then decided, I was like, what am I doing?

[688] Still not where I was like, obviously auditioning for things and thinking, I'm going to get something.

[689] It's going to solve all.

[690] Because when I was at NYU, I think the biggest thing for me, it wasn't the money, it wasn't the commute, although those were certainly factors.

[691] It was, I wanted to be acting, right?

[692] And, like, in hindsight, what I probably should have done was applied to Tisch and actually gone to the drama school and because I was passionate about it and loved it and was decent at it.

[693] Might be married to Kristen Bell now.

[694] Maybe it would be married to Kristen Bell.

[695] Yeah, she was there.

[696] Yeah.

[697] Shit.

[698] You know what?

[699] You blew it.

[700] Well, she would apply to Tisch.

[701] Weird, huh?

[702] Yeah.

[703] So...

[704] I'd grab a job over at Baby Gap.

[705] I'd be doing just fine.

[706] What if we literally, those were our lives?

[707] And I'm sitting here, you're interviewing me because this is your side gig from Baby Gapner.

[708] And I'm like, anyway, my wife, Kristen Bell, super awesome.

[709] Oh, boring.

[710] I had my testicles in a cutest pair of little socks last night.

[711] Didn't think they were going to fit, but got the sock wet, and then it got...

[712] No, no, no, no. It was great.

[713] That's amazing.

[714] Yeah.

[715] So you're married to Princess Anna from Frozen?

[716] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[717] I have my testicles in Frozen socks.

[718] Amazing.

[719] Yeah, that's amazing.

[720] Cute little.

[721] Okay.

[722] That's amazing.

[723] What weird lives we have.

[724] I'm a parallel.

[725] Geez.

[726] So, yeah.

[727] So, so, so, so, um, took the semester off and then decided I, I needed to go back to college and applied and, uh, to a smaller liberal, liberal art school in Jersey, Montclair State University.

[728] And then.

[729] I was there for three weeks when I, but, oh, you know what, when I, when I, so when I applied to Montclair State, I went to transfer my credits.

[730] I'd spent, you know, a couple, $100 ,000.

[731] I mean, at least $25 or something, $30 ,000 for this semester at NYU.

[732] And I was like, okay, well, I'm going to transfer my credits.

[733] And Montclair State, along with most colleges, apparently, have a minimum requirement of 16 credits that you need to transfer.

[734] And because I failed Econ or E -Con, I had 12.

[735] And so the NYU stint was completely useless.

[736] It was a complete wash. Anyway, I went to Montclair State.

[737] I was there for three weeks, auditioned for a TV show, got the part, and went out to L .A. and then did that show, left college, obviously, and then went out to L .A. did the show.

[738] It was canceled after 13 episodes, but I decided to stay out in L .A. And you stayed in L .A. Yeah.

[739] So that was 97.

[740] Okay.

[741] You're 21 years old.

[742] I think I'm 19.

[743] 19, 21.

[744] Carry the one.

[745] I mean, whatever.

[746] It's close.

[747] Okay.

[748] A Canadian 19 or an American 21.

[749] It's a metric system.

[750] You can drink there at 19.

[751] Whatever.

[752] That's right.

[753] So at 19, you get an audition.

[754] Yep.

[755] And it's for American Pie.

[756] Yeah.

[757] Yeah.

[758] And you go in, it's a teen comedy, right?

[759] You're not, your expectations are probably average, right?

[760] Yeah, so that year was, there were so many teen, that was like the teen movie.

[761] Like, my timing was kind of perfect in terms of coming out to L .A. and getting an, now getting an L .A. agent and sort of doing the whole L .A. thing.

[762] because it was every teen movie I felt like there were so many great auditions and most of them were not great but I would have been thrilled obviously to be cast in any of them and I remember reading the script for American Pie and thinking oh shit this is actually did you think like I can't believe they're going to make this partly I couldn't believe that it was at a studio yeah yeah yeah and And, yeah, it was like, I wonder how much of this is going to be cut, basically.

[763] I remember reading it and thinking that.

[764] Flute in the pussy, you're like, that's gone.

[765] Yeah, I was like, that's gone.

[766] That's gone.

[767] No way.

[768] When they might let her say it once, but it ain't making me idea.

[769] Yeah, exactly.

[770] And then they'll give me the alt and.

[771] Yeah.

[772] So, but I remember thinking, oh, my God, this is really funny.

[773] This is really good.

[774] I would really love to get this one.

[775] But again, I'm, you know, any of those movies, I think it was like that year was, was she's all that.

[776] And there was a ton of, I mean, there was a ton of them.

[777] Ten things I hate about you.

[778] What's that?

[779] Ten things I hate about you?

[780] Ten things I hate about you.

[781] Same.

[782] I know.

[783] You're welcome.

[784] Yeah.

[785] Which I audition for.

[786] I mean, there were, there was so many of them.

[787] And, but I remember with American Pie, and it wasn't called American Pie at the time, but I remember thinking like, it was called Flute Pussy.

[788] It was called Flute Pussy.

[789] Yeah.

[790] But again, they had to change.

[791] Well, they had to change.

[792] Yeah.

[793] A distribution in Germany.

[794] Yeah, it was a little much.

[795] It means something completely different in Germany.

[796] It was a little much.

[797] Flute pussy.

[798] Yeah, it was actually pussy flute.

[799] They switch the...

[800] Yeah, they flip it and then it's disgusting.

[801] Because they do the verb or some before then.

[802] It's like weird.

[803] So...

[804] Or dear pussy flute, I think.

[805] Very good.

[806] Yeah.

[807] Pussy flute.

[808] I just want to do the...

[809] Yes, I'm looking at the parts catalog right now.

[810] I know this is going to shock you, but your engine actually has a flute pussy in it.

[811] I'm so sorry, Monica.

[812] I promised you I wouldn't do this.

[813] Here I am.

[814] I know.

[815] Can't help yourself.

[816] You can have one from Stuttgart to you in the three weeks.

[817] Okay.

[818] So you go shoot this movie and you meet these guys.

[819] Do you get a sense right away?

[820] Like, when you meet Sean William Scott, are you like oh, this dude's...

[821] Perfect.

[822] Yeah.

[823] Yeah.

[824] Kind of everyone was like...

[825] It's an incredibly well -cast movie.

[826] It's really...

[827] And that's what makes move...

[828] Like, if I can...

[829] ourselves on the back for a second.

[830] Like, without a paddle, tons of people turned that movie down, and it was just this...

[831] Whatever, script was good or bad.

[832] Who knows?

[833] But some weird magic happened between Seth and Matt and I. And that just is...

[834] You get lucky.

[835] And then we had the time of our life, and then it was kind of tangible on screen and people liked it.

[836] Yep.

[837] And so that thing, you kind of hit the jackpot, right?

[838] All those guys and those gales were fucking awesome.

[839] Yep.

[840] It was great.

[841] And the experience was great.

[842] I mean, yeah, we were so young.

[843] I mean, at that point, I had turned 20.

[844] And Eddie K. Thomas, he was the youngest.

[845] And he's remained my closest friend through all of it.

[846] The guy who plays Finch.

[847] Shipbreak.

[848] Yes, someone just said shipwreck.

[849] Exactly.

[850] He was, he got his drive.

[851] I remember he had like a week off during filming, and he went, he was from New York, and he came home to New York, and I guess he got his driver's license, because then he came back to set, and he was like, you guys, I got my driver's license.

[852] We were all like, holy shit, you got a driver's license.

[853] Like, that was the biggest fucking deal.

[854] Yeah.

[855] But yeah, that whole, those two months were pretty surreal.

[856] One, because we were all just thrilled to be working.

[857] No one had an ego yet, right?

[858] Zero, zero ego.

[859] It was just very, it was really fun.

[860] It was well cast.

[861] We all got along.

[862] But there was also this sort of energy underneath it all, like, oh, fuck, this is maybe going to be good.

[863] Like, we kind of could see, you know, I mean, you shoot some of these scenes, and you've got, you know, you've got the crew and people going, I've never seen anything like that before.

[864] Like that is fucking nuts.

[865] And, of course, you go, well, is that, that's good, right?

[866] Like, that's a good thing.

[867] Sure.

[868] And so there was just that kind of energy that we were maybe.

[869] Well, no one had seen anything like the human centipede ed either.

[870] Right, right.

[871] That's true.

[872] It can also go the other way.

[873] Also good.

[874] Those people on set were like, we've never seen anything like this.

[875] And they were like, you're like, sweet.

[876] That's good, right?

[877] Yeah, that's great.

[878] So the movie comes out is, it's an immediate hit, right?

[879] It wasn't like one of these slow building things.

[880] It just, it just, it's.

[881] It was a giant hit.

[882] Yeah, it opened number one.

[883] It was the red band trailers were still kind of a novelty.

[884] Because they did them in their...

[885] Your AOL dial -up.

[886] Wait, 40 minutes on AOL dial -up to download this trailer.

[887] Well, that was the thing.

[888] It was mostly in the movie theaters.

[889] I mean, yes, online was starting to become a thing.

[890] But now, I mean, every R -rated comedy has a red -band trailer.

[891] It's out online before.

[892] you and they're great and they go but like the red band trailer as a as a thing it was still like whoa sure like when you were in the movie theater and you saw all the trailers in the beginning it was like green following previews and you see the trailer you see it and then when the red one popped up it was jar it was like what the fuck is this yes and then you see the trailer and there's a dude with his dick and a pie yeah people were like talking about And when you shot that scene I just thought of like 80 hacky ways to bring that up because I'm sure you heard throughout the whole press but yeah your love scene I'm sure that was one that came up a lot at any point during that where you're like ooh this is either going to propel me to start or more it's over.

[893] Yeah.

[894] There's a high...

[895] That's swinging for the fences fucking an apple pie.

[896] A million percent.

[897] Yeah.

[898] Did you, like, confer with any, like...

[899] I called my manager that morning.

[900] Okay.

[901] We actually went in, so we, you know, we got to set.

[902] What's your manager's name?

[903] This was, at the time, Brian Metavoy.

[904] Okay, so I'm Brian.

[905] Yeah.

[906] What's up, Biggsie?

[907] What's going on?

[908] Hey, Brian.

[909] Hey, Guy.

[910] So, I just got to set.

[911] So we just rehearsed that scene.

[912] You know, the one...

[913] Refresh my memory?

[914] Yes, the one where Jim, he, uh, he fucks, the pie.

[915] Oh, sure.

[916] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[917] Oh, yeah.

[918] That's a great scene.

[919] Anyway, yeah.

[920] Is it, though?

[921] Yeah, it's a great scene.

[922] Is it?

[923] Because here's the thing.

[924] I'm supposed to go in there right now and actually fuck the pie.

[925] Uh -huh.

[926] And so I'm just wondering in terms of my career and sort of, you know, things seem good right now.

[927] But people don't know who I am.

[928] Well, they're going to know you after this.

[929] Yeah.

[930] They're going to know you after this.

[931] And so should I be worried about that.

[932] That won't be a baker in the city.

[933] That won't shudder when you walk to their pie shop.

[934] Yeah, that's what I'm worried about, Brian.

[935] Quick, well, hold on.

[936] Quick pro tip.

[937] You know, Mickey Rourke and Lisa Bonnet, they actually made love and Angel Heart.

[938] Okay, not a great example.

[939] That chemistry is undeniable.

[940] So I'm just saying, go for it.

[941] Well, if Mickey Rourke did it.

[942] Okay, thanks, Brian.

[943] Okay.

[944] And then I fired Brian the next day.

[945] Yeah, sounds about right.

[946] Yeah.

[947] Um, but I called him and I literally, so we first went in for rehearsal and we were like blocking it out and I, it was just, I was just like, is it, er, because I see your butt cheeks in that, don't I?

[948] Yeah.

[949] Yeah.

[950] And we shot it two different ways.

[951] So we shot it, uh, with me standing up.

[952] Okay.

[953] Um, and then we shot it with me on top of the, on top of the counter, yeah.

[954] Oh, wow.

[955] The island, the, the kitchen island.

[956] Uh -huh.

[957] Uh -huh.

[958] Which, I bet you were so sick of talking about this, like, eight years ago, but now we're into it again.

[959] Totally exactly right.

[960] Like, I can, if I'm you, we're anything to like.

[961] Like, I hated talking about puns.

[962] I can't stand it, and then now I'm back to, I love it.

[963] It's so funny.

[964] It's so true.

[965] It's so true.

[966] So anyways, you're nuts deep in this apple pie.

[967] Nuts deep.

[968] Well, so.

[969] So, but I called him.

[970] I called them, so we rehearsed, and I went back to the trailer, and I was, like, getting ready, and I called my manager, and I was like, dude, I'm, like, kind of freaking out.

[971] So we're about to do the pie scene, and I don't, like, am I, like, am I really doing this?

[972] And I will never forget this as long as I live.

[973] He was like, Big Z, you fuck the pie.

[974] You fuck the shit out of that pie.

[975] And don't you?

[976] Don't you look back, man. I was like, okay, great.

[977] Oh, my God.

[978] So it's virtually like I was pretending.

[979] It was pretty much exactly like you said.

[980] Minus the Mickey Roark.

[981] Sure, sure, sure.

[982] But he literally, you fuck the shit out of that pie.

[983] And I was like, okay.

[984] Fold the shit out of that pie.

[985] You fold the shit out of it.

[986] Origami that thing.

[987] And then we went in, and I did it, and again, the crew was such a, a big part of, like, because, again, you're, for a, you know, you're really, like, is the second AC, like, is he sitting there going, you know, going, you know what I mean, that's how you know, right?

[988] Like, because the director, you're kind of, they've drank the Kool -A.

[989] Yeah, and, and then also becomes very technical.

[990] And so the humor is always inevitably kind of sucked out of these situations at some point, right?

[991] Right.

[992] It got to a point where, you know, my pants needed to be adjusted.

[993] I was showing too much crack.

[994] Oh, there's my scrotum.

[995] Let's raise that.

[996] It was literally like a whole thing.

[997] They know this, you don't know this, but I had a director come raise a bit of sheet because you could see my anus.

[998] Like the actual hole.

[999] Yeah, my biggest fear in life.

[1000] And you just know there was like nine people behind the monitors going like, ooh, am I seeing?

[1001] Yeah, that's Dax's anus hole.

[1002] So who wants to go adjust the sheet?

[1003] Oh, Jesus, man. It's a humbling experience.

[1004] You go back to the monitors.

[1005] There's literally sheets over the monitors.

[1006] They were like, you're not going to fix it on.

[1007] No one's looking you in the eye after.

[1008] He was like, hey, what's up, Dex?

[1009] I saw your asshole.

[1010] Hey, yay.

[1011] Good, great job.

[1012] Yeah, and so we did it.

[1013] And then, you know, but then it was a year, right?

[1014] A year of like, what is going to happen with this thing that we shot?

[1015] And it's a big old touchdown.

[1016] It was a big old.

[1017] touchdown.

[1018] So awesome.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] So you're 21.

[1021] How quickly after it comes out do they start saying you're 20?

[1022] Okay.

[1023] No, no. I want you to be 21 so bad.

[1024] Okay.

[1025] I can't wait for you to be 21 in your life story.

[1026] I'll do it right now.

[1027] So I shot it.

[1028] I was 20.

[1029] And then it came out in July of 99.

[1030] I turned 21 in May, right before?

[1031] Perfect timing.

[1032] Oh, what a perfect time to be 21.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] Number one movie in America.

[1035] Yeah.

[1036] How quickly are they talking about a sequel from when it comes out?

[1037] Huh.

[1038] So I'm imagining you made $5 in the first one.

[1039] $5.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] How quickly?

[1042] That's a good question.

[1043] Well, you can lie.

[1044] Sure.

[1045] It was like two months.

[1046] Okay, two months, great.

[1047] I guess I'm wondering at what point do you go like, ooh, I'm going to get paid?

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] And then you started adjusting, you're like, oh, maybe I can move into that apartment, or maybe I can buy this thing.

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] It was, I think it was even before they started talking the sequel.

[1052] It was because I got off of that, I got more work.

[1053] Sure, sure, right?

[1054] I was like, I got other movies.

[1055] Yeah, I guess you weren't even probably thinking about that as much as like, oh, my God, I'm going to get the star in movies now.

[1056] It wasn't that long after.

[1057] But, yeah, but at first it was just like, oh, my God, I'm getting, I can get other jobs.

[1058] Because that year was really a weird sort of time for me. but again credit to my manager who told me to fuck the shit out of my pie because he was like this is lightning in a bottle that was his another quote I had to keep remembering because I was like I was still auditioning and I remember auditioning for you probably got offered something that he probably was like you can't do this which is the hardest thing in the world to do right?

[1059] I've never turned down a job no yeah an acting job I spent you know I spent at that point 16 years trying to get any fucking job.

[1060] Yeah, 21 minus 5.

[1061] Carrying the one.

[1062] And the idea of like passing on something was preposterous.

[1063] And then you're also, you're telling yourself like, oh my God, I've already gotten too big.

[1064] If I do this, I've gotten too big for my britches is all going to be taken away from me. Right, exactly.

[1065] It's like, how can I?

[1066] So it was a real struggle for me. I remember getting, in fact, specifically it was that pilot season, sort of the pilot season and that happened in the middle there, you know, I was like, I'm going to do a pilot, right?

[1067] Like, I'm going to do a pilot.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] Let's get a pilot.

[1070] And I audition for saying, he was like, okay, let's put you out there, let's see.

[1071] But, and I got offered one.

[1072] He was like, I don't know that you should do this.

[1073] It was friends.

[1074] I don't think.

[1075] He should have done it.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] Yeah, no, but he was like, you're going to pass on it.

[1078] You're going to pass.

[1079] I think you should pass.

[1080] So I guess then you're answering my next question, which is, did you're, at 21, does your ego go berserk at all?

[1081] When that first movie comes out and just slays, are you like, oh, fuck, uh, okay.

[1082] I mean, I...

[1083] My shit doesn't stink.

[1084] Good question.

[1085] I mean, sure, there's...

[1086] I mean, I recognize now after years of doing this that I definitely have a healthy ego, right?

[1087] Well, you kind of enjoyed one.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] But I, but at that point, I had also, I was very cautious with the whole thing.

[1090] I was very I just always was waiting for the other shoe to fall, I think.

[1091] Right?

[1092] And I had already seen the ups and downs.

[1093] Like, prior to that, all of my good news sort of came with a, but this, right?

[1094] Like, you're nominated for an Emmy, but you're fired, and you're never doing that role again.

[1095] Right, right?

[1096] Like, it was always kind of, like, the reality of the business.

[1097] I had seen since I was so little, right?

[1098] And I had gone years without working during that time.

[1099] I mean, when I was a kid, it's fine, right?

[1100] I could just go to school and be a kid.

[1101] I wasn't, you know.

[1102] So I always had a sense of like, okay, this could definitely all go away.

[1103] That being said, I definitely had fun.

[1104] I mean, I definitely didn't let myself, you know, I wasn't like, well, you know, I didn't allow myself, I didn't not allow myself to enjoy it.

[1105] Right, okay.

[1106] I definitely was like, this is fucking amazing.

[1107] Like, this is unbelievable.

[1108] I mean, but.

[1109] Every young person in America within a week, knows who you are, right?

[1110] It happened that weekend.

[1111] I mean, I literally remember walking with my roommate to go get, you know, breakfast in Santa Monica and crossing the street.

[1112] A car, it was a Saturday morning, so the movie came out the night before.

[1113] And a car stopped and screamed at me through the window, and they were like, do the dance, do the dance!

[1114] And we were just like, my buddy and I just, like, looked at each other.

[1115] We were like, holy shit.

[1116] Yeah.

[1117] Like, that's crazy.

[1118] overnight right i mean do you start when do you start loving booze so i start loving booze probably right i mean before i left new jersey um i was late to it but but um wasted no time catching yeah i didn't really but i but again because my parents were so strict i was definitely i i was i was afraid right like i definitely like thought it out I didn't allow myself to go bananas, even though I wanted to.

[1119] Could you, though, feel, like, when you got drunk for those first times, did you have that feeling that I had where I was like, oh, I was born to feel this way?

[1120] Yeah, a million percent.

[1121] Yeah, where it's like, ooh, I like this jacket.

[1122] I've been wearing, yep, totally.

[1123] I'm handsome, the future's positive.

[1124] Yeah, and when I first came to it, it was sort of that I had just, the acting stuff wasn't really happening, it was slow, it was, you know, it was like my last year of high school, beginning of NYU, essentially.

[1125] But at that point, I had finally, like, caught up socially and had some good friends, and that's, of course, who I was partaking with.

[1126] So I just, for the first time, really started to feel comfortable.

[1127] and then that, the booze just sort of, I was like, this is it.

[1128] Now, I'm finally, finally.

[1129] Our friend Gordon Keith says, we're all born two beers away from feeling happy.

[1130] Yeah, two beers away from happiness.

[1131] We're just born two beers away.

[1132] Wow.

[1133] Which for me is kind of profound.

[1134] Yeah.

[1135] Yeah, but it was when I went to L .A. So now when I moved to L .A., that was, I mean, that was my first taste of independence, right?

[1136] I had gotten it in small doses when I would go in and do the play at night, but I would always come back to the reality of, you know, I'm really not that guy.

[1137] I have to be this guy.

[1138] And so moving to L .A. for me was...

[1139] Like going to college, basically, for most people.

[1140] And then American Pie, literally that set, those friends, the subject matter.

[1141] I mean, it was my college experience.

[1142] and then the years that followed that, I was college age, you know, give or take, you know.

[1143] I was always 21 for you.

[1144] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1145] Right.

[1146] Yeah.

[1147] From 96 to 2003, you're 21.

[1148] I'm 21.

[1149] Yeah, exactly.

[1150] And, yeah, and then that's where it took off.

[1151] Right.

[1152] That's where drugs came in for the first time.

[1153] Yeah, what age do you start powder in your nose?

[1154] Yeah, so, why I done ecstasy?

[1155] first in New Jersey.

[1156] I think I'd done E was the first hard drug I had done, but only like once or twice.

[1157] And then I went out to L .A. And, of course, found the drug friends.

[1158] And we did lots of E. We would do E nightly.

[1159] Okay.

[1160] And then...

[1161] That's great for your mental health.

[1162] Great.

[1163] And then at some point, Coke happened.

[1164] And that was probably...

[1165] It was...

[1166] I know when it was.

[1167] It was the year between shooting American Pie and it coming out.

[1168] Oh, really?

[1169] Yeah, which was that...

[1170] Perfect timing.

[1171] Now you're going to have some money.

[1172] Exactly.

[1173] Yeah, it's great.

[1174] Yeah.

[1175] At that point, it was still just kind of like a...

[1176] I mean, I loved it.

[1177] There's a sweet spot.

[1178] You can run with a sweet spot for quite a while, right?

[1179] I ran with a sweet spot for a while.

[1180] That's a great way to put it.

[1181] Yeah.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] I mean, I was in...

[1184] At that point, I was an everyday drinker.

[1185] I was an everyday something, right?

[1186] Whether I was sitting around getting stoned or drinking or, you know...

[1187] Another way to say is you were a good time.

[1188] That was great fun.

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] Yeah, that's right.

[1191] A good hang.

[1192] A good hang.

[1193] A good hang.

[1194] And would you work, would you ever work fucked up?

[1195] I wouldn't.

[1196] So I was also, you know, I felt like I was had it under control and I would never work fucked up.

[1197] And I remember, you know, entertaining the thought, but I would always come back to that feeling like I had when I lived at home, which was, oh God, if mom and dad catch me, I'm so fucked.

[1198] And so, at that point, it was like, I cannot, I had enough of a sort of sense to not want to jeopardize any of that.

[1199] Like, I knew how sort of lucky I was.

[1200] And I, and I, and I wouldn't, but that being said, I would still, especially in hindsight, I mean, I would, I was very careless in so many other regards.

[1201] Sure.

[1202] You know?

[1203] Um, where I could have, you know, I jeopardized all of my job.

[1204] Sure, sure.

[1205] Just because I wasn't drinking or partying on set.

[1206] Uh, lucky for me, the only thing I was more addicted to was working in movies.

[1207] Right.

[1208] So it's like this other addiction, thank God, trumped the, the other one.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] The, the best feeling in the world, the best high, and I've realized the high that I'm always chasing more than any is, um, is approval.

[1211] It worked Approval, right?

[1212] Like, that is, for me, like, the high of being on a set, cracking a joke, even just getting that feedback for me is, you know, but the problem is this doesn't always happen, right?

[1213] They're not coming home with you tonight.

[1214] Right.

[1215] I mean, some of them are.

[1216] Some.

[1217] Yeah.

[1218] Some are already folding themselves just to.

[1219] In anticipation.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] So they don't fold too quickly once it happens.

[1222] Exactly.

[1223] That's sure.

[1224] Yeah, you're right.

[1225] I was able to keep the sort of work thing.

[1226] I was like, work is the ultimate for me. I mean, I just loved it so much.

[1227] But the rest of my life was a fucking quickly became a shit show.

[1228] Right.

[1229] Good for you.

[1230] Yeah, I would be mad if you didn't capitalize on that juicy opportunity.

[1231] So with the sequels comes money.

[1232] Yep.

[1233] And that then can also facilitate the other stuff, right?

[1234] nicely and at any point do you start getting scared of like oh no I'm going to be defined by this movie only or are you like who gives a fuck I'm on a freight train and I'm happy to have it yeah I didn't think because at this point we would both be able to recognize that to get in something like that happens to one in a trillion working actors yeah and yet we think oh we need to get another one not even thinking like oh you already got the that's won in a trillion, a franchise that's successful.

[1235] Yeah, I, I, um, I, I, I didn't.

[1236] I mean, I, I was aware that it could be a thing, but I also was, like, I knew that the reason I was doing the other jobs I was getting was because I played gym in American Pie, right?

[1237] And, um, you were in the Rolling Stones and they entertained your side projects.

[1238] Exactly.

[1239] Exactly.

[1240] Yeah.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] So that's exactly right.

[1244] And so I wasn't, I mean, I always wanted to do other things.

[1245] I always felt confident in my abilities to do other things.

[1246] I had done more drama when I was younger.

[1247] But I also was like, Carpe Diem.

[1248] I mean, you want to cast me as this sort of awkward teenager, unlucky and love guy next door.

[1249] Great.

[1250] See, I think this is very cool about you.

[1251] And I had met you, you know, we met 10 years ago for the first time, basically.

[1252] No, not 10 years ago, eight years ago.

[1253] No, 10.

[1254] No, because I had three years.

[1255] Oh, you're right.

[1256] 11.

[1257] 11 years.

[1258] Quick math, 14 minus 3.

[1259] You were 21.

[1260] Yeah, 10 years away from 21.

[1261] But yeah, you had zero chip on your shoulder.

[1262] You're not a chip on your shoulder type of person, which is awesome.

[1263] Thanks, dude.

[1264] I mean, I like to say that with envy.

[1265] I'm kind of a chip on my shoulder.

[1266] I mean, I think, I'll be honest, I think I've gotten more of one.

[1267] Oh, good, good.

[1268] I do feel like, I mean, thank you.

[1269] It's lonely over here, bro.

[1270] I know, I know.

[1271] I feel icky.

[1272] Yeah, but we'll prove them right.

[1273] Yeah, wrong.

[1274] I, no, I really, I also kind of, you know, there's also something to being sort of young and dumb, I think.

[1275] I was like, okay, whatever, I do these movies.

[1276] Now, I'll always have my opportunity.

[1277] I could do that and later and da -da -da -da.

[1278] I'll be honest, it's only in the last couple of years am I finding that it's become a thing, or at least I'm more aware of it being a thing, right?

[1279] And by the way, I still wouldn't trade it for the fucking world.

[1280] I don't even know that I need to say that, but I mean, it's the kind of thing that I feel like I do need to qualify it because I, yeah, it was the best thing that's ever happened to me, for sure, career was.

[1281] And so, and all the work that I've gotten since then has had some connection to that film and its success.

[1282] But more in recent years, I found that the American Pie thing kind of, which is crazy, because you would think it's so long ago and I've done other things.

[1283] And, you know, I like to think that Orange is the New Black in particular was something, that is certainly a different sort of thing.

[1284] It's Bateman's Arrested Development.

[1285] Right, but I'm still, I still kind of hear it a little bit, and I wonder if that's, you know, I think I'm at like this weird age as well, 21, where I'm, I'm 40, right?

[1286] And like, I'm a dad and I, you know, the kinds of roles that I want to be playing and think I should be playing.

[1287] are starting to catch up with me, I think, but it was a few years there where I was kind of, people still kind of saw me as that.

[1288] And so it was hard to, I don't know.

[1289] Well, you and I, we have a mutual friend, Don, Roos, who said the most liberating thing to me, which is he said, I stopped thinking of my job as a career and just started thinking of it as a job, because a career is your ego.

[1290] And the job is you show up and work and you're not in the results business.

[1291] And that's what someone with humility just does.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] It's so true.

[1294] And, you know, I feel like, I'm sure you and I are both like this where we've always thought that, but, you know, you kind of get, I kind of got caught up a little bit in like, you know, also you have people around you that, you know, are advising you certain ways, and maybe I shouldn't speak for you, but for me I definitely had a period where you know, I was reluctant to do certain things.

[1295] The biggest example is TV, right?

[1296] So TV, right?

[1297] You know, those first couple years after American Pie, I was very lucky, had a lot of movie opportunities, but the early aughts right around there, mid -2000s, you know, some TV opportunities were coming my way.

[1298] And my instinct was, that sounds like a good job.

[1299] That's like a fucking great job.

[1300] Yeah, let's do, I used to do TV.

[1301] It's been a few years.

[1302] I would love to do, and, but.

[1303] The agents are like, oh, if you do TV, you'll never be in movies again, right?

[1304] You know, and it's not their fault.

[1305] I mean, I was like, yeah, no, I should not, I should wait, I should do it.

[1306] And then, you know, and then I was always behind playing catch up, you know what I mean?

[1307] I was, instead of being the guy that's like, fuck yeah, I'll do TV.

[1308] I needed to wait until everyone else said that it was okay that, you know, all the other actors.

[1309] But De Niro's doing a TV.

[1310] Yeah, exactly.

[1311] But then by the time, so then I'm like, okay, I'll do TV.

[1312] And they're like, we don't want you.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] Guess what everyone is doing it now.

[1315] Fuck off, bro.

[1316] And you're like, oh, shit.

[1317] Sean Penn, I just saw an ad that he's got a TV show.

[1318] Yep.

[1319] I mean, come on.

[1320] So anyway, I mean, well, now especially the whole thing has changed.

[1321] But, yeah, like we were talking about, I mean, there's no. it's the word almost sounds like so it's such a funny word now but content right it's all about content it is and how and people consume it in in different ways and and there's no right or wrong way and people don't judge and you know i i mean social media is the best example of the way sort of people watch well you are particularly brilliant on social media i find Like, I don't watch The Bachelor, but I could read you writing about The Bachelor all day long.

[1322] I appreciate that.

[1323] Or this week, go on to his Instagram, this last week, his wife was out of town, and he was in charge of making the kids lunch.

[1324] And every day the lunch got shittier and shittier and shittier and shittier.

[1325] And at one point, the lunch was just a fucking medicine.

[1326] It was like just all this medicine and a spoiled avocado.

[1327] And I was like, this is some of the most brilliant work being done.

[1328] is on your Instagram I like ran into the kitchen to show Kristen I'm like oh yeah have you seen Biggs's fucking lunch story I like that more than the last movie I went and saw but it's funny but like I looked at the numbers of the like people who watch this you know you could go to the analytics on Instagram and I'm like there's way more people have seen that than the last four movies I've done sure sure but yeah but Jenny, I would like to preface that Jenny, my wife, makes these crazy lunches for Sid and posts them every night with her own brand of humor, but the lunches themselves are very earnest and really, she puts in a lot of effort.

[1329] And so she was out of town this whole week, and I was like, fuck, what am I?

[1330] I was like, there's really only one way to go with this, and that is the complete opposite.

[1331] Yeah, you're not going to over sure.

[1332] Fuck, no, I can't compete.

[1333] at what point do you go like okay I gotta stop powdering my nose right yeah I feel like you told me a story about being on a golf course or something just getting real gacked out of your mind the middle of the day yeah sure playing in a foursome on like a Tuesday afternoon the other guys are like maybe a beer you know the cart girl comes around you're like I'll have a beer and I'm like I'll have a beer and I'm going to go to the bathroom real quick I'll be right back and I would go and do blow in the bathroom and I remember thinking at that point like hmm.

[1334] This is a thing.

[1335] This is a thing.

[1336] But I think even before that, I mean, that's one story, but like my life had started to have a lot of those stories.

[1337] Consequences.

[1338] Yeah, and I was just like, what am I doing, you know?

[1339] And then when I really started to sort of take inventory of my past, too, like I think about, you know, that first time after American Pie, the first time, the first movie that I did, right, got paid a little bit, went up to Vancouver.

[1340] It's my first actual, it's my first location shoot, because American Pie was in L .A. and I was living there.

[1341] So it's my first time on location, and I have this apartment, and I had a roommate in L .A., so I was like, I had my own place, and it was just all of these things.

[1342] And the first thing I did when I got up to Vancouver, and I wasn't 21 yet.

[1343] Oh, no, I was.

[1344] I was 21.

[1345] Yeah, you're exactly 21.

[1346] Thank you.

[1347] Thanks for reminding me that I was 21st.

[1348] But the first thing I did was went to the liquor store.

[1349] And I remember having a cart.

[1350] Because it wasn't just a six -pack and a bottle.

[1351] I mean, I had a cart.

[1352] I was like, I'm stocking my apartment.

[1353] Yeah.

[1354] Swinging Bachelor.

[1355] And I remember, that was the first time I was aware of drinking alone.

[1356] That was the first time I was like, huh, I'm drinking alone.

[1357] But I didn't think of it as a, it wasn't a red flag.

[1358] It was like, huh, it's fucking cool.

[1359] Sure.

[1360] I could just, I'm home from work, home from set.

[1361] Yeah.

[1362] kick off the shoes, you know, get a highball glass fucking, you know, but the, but, but, but very quickly, it was like, pour the glass and one extra for daddy, put it away, you know?

[1363] Sure, sure.

[1364] So, it is really funny when you blow by these markers that in your mind were, oh, that's what an alcoholic does.

[1365] And then how when you do them, you, all of a sudden, your situation is unique.

[1366] Yeah, right.

[1367] Like, my thing was like, if you drink in the morning, you've got a real problem.

[1368] But if you drink Sunday morning after a rough Saturday night, not a problem.

[1369] And if that turns into like an all -day thing and you need to have a little drink on Monday just so you're not sick.

[1370] Yeah, you got to, you don't want to be sick.

[1371] Then you can curb it off by Thursday and then start that fucker right back up again.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] I did that for a year.

[1374] And at one point I was like, oh, you really drink in the morning three days a week.

[1375] That's for real.

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] But you can, it's crazy the power of things.

[1378] It's crazy.

[1379] Yeah.

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] Yeah.

[1382] And, and so when I first, so yeah, so I first, I would say, when, so, I mean, it had been, for about a year or two, I was in therapy, and I would like, I was so afraid to talk about, I, I remember wanting to bring it up for the longest time.

[1383] To your therapist.

[1384] To my therapist, that I was concerned about my drinking and drugging.

[1385] Yeah.

[1386] But I knew that once I brought it up...

[1387] You'd get a solution that you didn't want.

[1388] Exactly.

[1389] Yeah.

[1390] Then it was accountable, right?

[1391] Then the next session I would go in and she'd be like, so, how's your, you know, did you you have, you know, and it's like, fuck.

[1392] So I knew that once I did it, that was the beginning of the end for me. Yeah.

[1393] Or at least I thought it would be.

[1394] And so I kept not doing it.

[1395] I mean, I would go there hungover.

[1396] I would have this therapy session and I would literally, there was a, there was a liquor store around the corner.

[1397] I have like a tough therapy session and be like, fuck, I need a fucking drink.

[1398] I would go to the liquor store and buy a bottle of vodka, drink some of it, and then drive her home.

[1399] Yeah, it became a real testament to that therapy.

[1400] Yep.

[1401] Yeah, no shit.

[1402] Oh, she's a great therapist.

[1403] About a year into seeing her, I started cheating on my wife, and then I, uh, the next year I started drinking after the appointments.

[1404] Oh, yeah.

[1405] So, um, but then, uh, then I did bring it up with her.

[1406] And I'm trying to think if I, I remember sort of the big, the big moment for me was, um, was Jenny saying that she was pregnant, right?

[1407] That was sort of the, you know, the light bulb went off.

[1408] It was like, wait a minute, that were went on.

[1409] That was, that was, that was for me the moment where I was like, I have to say, well, it was the moment where I thought I had to say something to Jenny.

[1410] because I had it.

[1411] So you know what I did?

[1412] Because I had told my therapist first.

[1413] So it was probably in the months preceding Jenny getting pregnant that I was talking to my therapist about it.

[1414] And wouldn't you know it?

[1415] So I told my therapist.

[1416] And I was like, I think, I don't know, I might.

[1417] I'd like to talk about it.

[1418] I mean, and she was like, you know, I'm not sure.

[1419] I wasn't sure if I was going to tell you this or not, but I'm going to, I've been sober for 35 years.

[1420] Oh, my God.

[1421] And I was like, oh, my God.

[1422] Of course, I immediately go back and I'm, like, thinking about all these stories I've been telling her.

[1423] Oh, really?

[1424] She's like, yeah, you had, uh, insomnia.

[1425] Yeah, exactly.

[1426] So, yeah.

[1427] And a fucking random nosebleed on Tuesday afternoon after playing golf with three strangers.

[1428] Okay.

[1429] Yeah.

[1430] Fuck, the random nosebleeds.

[1431] Oh.

[1432] I just told a story about that last night.

[1433] We're the worst.

[1434] Cast a table read for, or not cast table read, a cast dinner for idiocry.

[1435] Uh -huh.

[1436] This mid -meal.

[1437] I always get nosebleeds.

[1438] No, I don't.

[1439] I had one, and this was actually, this, this was one of the times where I remember thinking, oh, shit, it's coming into the work world was actually a table read for a play, and started bleeding, and I had it, like, those.

[1440] And it was just like it wouldn't stop.

[1441] And I was like, oh, my God, and they kept coming and checking on me. Jason, are you, do we need to reschedule?

[1442] No, no, no, no, I just...

[1443] Fuck, I put the heat on in my apartment last night and it's super dry.

[1444] Spent the night in Santa Fe last night.

[1445] Very dry up there at elevation.

[1446] But anyway, I feel great.

[1447] Just give me another three hours.

[1448] I'll be right out.

[1449] I should be out of blood soon.

[1450] It's not an infinite amount in me, so sooner or later, this is going to fix itself.

[1451] great.

[1452] But the kid.

[1453] So is the kid, yeah.

[1454] But I see that go the opposite direction, by the way.

[1455] Well, so, well, where they go bananas?

[1456] Yeah, where it's like they're telling themselves, oh, there's a kid, there's a kid, I got to get it together.

[1457] And what people don't understand about when you're having a kid, and if you've not had one, is it actually, to me, I was nine years sober when we had our first, and I actually felt a compulsion to have my own secret life again.

[1458] Because it's like, oh, no, now I'm really accountable permanently.

[1459] Now I want to have my own little private life.

[1460] And I know what my private life is.

[1461] Totally.

[1462] Well, that's why for me, so I got, so that was, um, so it's okay, she found out she was pregnant on a Sunday.

[1463] I went on a two -day bender.

[1464] Good, good.

[1465] We got to celebrate.

[1466] And be a father.

[1467] You know.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] And by the way, that was like, oh, champagne!

[1470] Also cocaine and ecstasy and mushrooms.

[1471] But yeah, champagne all around.

[1472] So, anyway.

[1473] came out of that and was like, okay, I got to do something.

[1474] And so I told Jenny and, um, was she shocked or she was like, yeah.

[1475] I think she was like, okay.

[1476] I mean, could you hit it kind of well?

[1477] I hit it very well.

[1478] Yeah.

[1479] I was, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, she would, she would, she was, Jenny was kind of, not naive, just kind of, um, she's normal.

[1480] She's just kind of normal, yeah, right?

[1481] She can do stuff and not care.

[1482] It's so, True, yeah.

[1483] It's just like my wife.

[1484] So annoying.

[1485] So fucking annoying.

[1486] Watching her have a glass of wine at a restaurant is the most infuriating thing ever.

[1487] It's like there's a third left.

[1488] Jesus's not even thinking about it.

[1489] We'll get up and leave.

[1490] I'm like, you're a kid.

[1491] Get back to that table and finish that fucking wine.

[1492] You're embarrassing her family.

[1493] She's not normal.

[1494] She's better than normal.

[1495] Most people are, yeah.

[1496] Extra normal?

[1497] Yeah, Jenny, the same, doesn't have that.

[1498] What a bit.

[1499] I'm so sorry to...

[1500] So cunty, but also...

[1501] But also it gets buzzed so easily.

[1502] Same with Bell.

[1503] So it's like, it takes two sips and is like, I don't, I am, whoa.

[1504] I, jeez, I, can you drive?

[1505] And I'm like, yeah, I could fucking drive.

[1506] Off a cliff.

[1507] Yeah, fucking straight into the ocean.

[1508] Fucking bitch.

[1509] Yeah, the difference is, is my wife goes, ooh, like we got super into Piki Blonde.

[1510] We love Peaky Bliners.

[1511] So she started having like, hell yeah.

[1512] She started having like whiskey on the rocks, you know like a millimeter.

[1513] And she like, she calls it her Tom Shelby's.

[1514] And she gets a little buzz and she goes, oh, this feels great.

[1515] And then the next thought isn't like full panic, I must maintain this feeling over life or death.

[1516] That's, you know, that's where we would go.

[1517] Yeah.

[1518] Oh, for sure.

[1519] She's happy to, if it dissipates or whatever.

[1520] Oh, it became a huge math equation, right?

[1521] I mean, in the end, it was just like, I can drink this and then did it, but I'll have this first by myself because I need to, I can't, I don't want to be seen like, I don't want to chug a scotch at the event, but I will at home by myself so that I don't need to chug that scotch, because I've already chug the scotch.

[1522] And then it's like, then it's like, then you add coke into it.

[1523] It's like, if I do, now I'm too drunk, I've got to do a bump.

[1524] Oh, but if I do too many bumps, then I can't talk and da -da -da.

[1525] It's a whole fucking nightmare.

[1526] It's just a lot of algebra.

[1527] really it's too much yeah we know we know you can't do it I mean shit yeah I compare it to like on a road trip when I'm on a really long road trip I'm like I'm going 82 if I go 82 for the next 10 hours it's 820 miles we go 87 that's 870 miles will be there and literally that's my whole the whole drive 40 hours is I bump it up half a mile an hour yeah no so that was the that was sort of my you know come to Jesus moment and I and I you know Got in the program and then, but then I didn't, because I think what you just said about, you know, becoming a parent and sort of wanting that thing.

[1528] And also I, you know, there was that part of my brain that kept saying, you don't really, you could do it, you know, and then I would go a year and it'd be like, obviously I could do it.

[1529] I just want a fucking year.

[1530] Obviously, I'm good.

[1531] You know, and then I would fall off and then it would quickly.

[1532] So I've unfortunately had a lot of ups and downs, but not unfortunately.

[1533] It's my story.

[1534] It's what it is.

[1535] And I've, you know, And now I've been back for a while, so I'm feeling good.

[1536] But it's an amazing thing.

[1537] I love sharing that with you.

[1538] We've speaking at these Secret Society meetings, and I always enjoy your point of view.

[1539] Same.

[1540] And before you go, I just want to hear about just one of your Twitter fiascos.

[1541] You can pick the one.

[1542] Because it's, well, it's newsworthy.

[1543] apparently when I read your Twitter tell me if I'm crazy it seems I'm so jealous you'll write anything people must say terrible things back and you must not care I like I admire you're my high watermark of like being able to use that thing to go like fuck you this is my sense of humor take it or leave it you can unfollow me or whatever it seems very liberating well it was It was.

[1544] It was.

[1545] I'm not that anymore.

[1546] Oh, you're not?

[1547] Okay.

[1548] And for a long time I was.

[1549] For a long time I was, you know, I could say whatever the fuck I want.

[1550] It's a, you know, when I first kind of found Twitter, I, like, I have a dark side to my humor.

[1551] I kind of will say and do whatever.

[1552] And I found that it always sort of surprised people.

[1553] that people's perception of me did not match maybe because of the characters I played Yeah, I'm in that category.

[1554] Exactly.

[1555] I read your tweets and I was like, oh, he, yeah.

[1556] Oh, whoa.

[1557] And so I enjoyed that, right?

[1558] Like, I enjoyed surprising people and obviously I enjoyed getting a reaction and being a provocateur.

[1559] A provocative, exactly.

[1560] So, but then I got in trouble a lot.

[1561] Uh -huh.

[1562] And I took the stance for a long time, like, whatever, fuck it, I'm not doing anything wrong.

[1563] And mind you, a lot of this sort of coincided with my last years of drinking.

[1564] Oh, okay.

[1565] Right?

[1566] And for so long, I was like, my drinking, my drugging has nothing to do with this, right?

[1567] Because I would point to a tweet that I got in trouble for where I wasn't drunk at all or on drugs.

[1568] See?

[1569] but looking back, of course, it was a time in my life where I was very, you know, awash in...

[1570] Sure.

[1571] It's a roller coaster up.

[1572] Yeah, my brain was pickled for sure, and I'm not putting it on that, but I definitely had a sort of like, you know, combative side to me that I think the booze and drugs obviously helped.

[1573] Yeah.

[1574] But I, yeah, I really haven't tweeted I mean, Instagram has become sort of the newer thing.

[1575] And I have to be honest, like, there was the one, so I was let go from a job.

[1576] Oh, you were.

[1577] Oh, that's for real.

[1578] And it was for real.

[1579] And it wasn't, it was like, you know, something that, whatever, I'm fine with it now, but I think it really fucked me up.

[1580] And, you know, for a while initially, I was like, I did nothing.

[1581] I was just combative.

[1582] You know what I mean?

[1583] I was just like, what did I do wrong?

[1584] Blah -b -di -blah.

[1585] And by the way, if I get into it now, and I'd rather not, but if I were to get into the details of it now, I would still come back to, I would end up saying things like, but I meant this, this, this, because that's sort of the instinct is to do that.

[1586] But the truth of the matter is, I fucking did it, right?

[1587] And there was someone else that didn't like what they heard.

[1588] It had to do with, I could talk about the tweet if you'd like.

[1589] It You don't have to.

[1590] I'm not, I don't want to bring up anything that was.

[1591] But the fact that I...

[1592] I didn't realize you had been canned over it.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] Oh, wow.

[1595] Yeah.

[1596] Okay.

[1597] You really shit the bed.

[1598] I must...

[1599] Yeah.

[1600] Can't wait to read this tweet when I get home.

[1601] And I, I...

[1602] No, but it fucked me up, though.

[1603] Yeah.

[1604] It definitely fucked me up because that was a huge wake of home.

[1605] Weirdly, though, truth but told, it might have been a blessing because that was, what, two years ago?

[1606] Three years ago?

[1607] It was more now.

[1608] Yeah, maybe four years ago.

[1609] Well, I could tell you what I was doing.

[1610] I was doing the, because your buddy's with Seth, right?

[1611] Green?

[1612] Yes, love Seth.

[1613] Because he came in and replaced me. I was doing the voice of Leonardo on the...

[1614] Well, I don't feel so bad because I love Seth and he got a job.

[1615] That's great.

[1616] And by the way, I don't feel...

[1617] It's kind of got a happy ending.

[1618] We love Seth.

[1619] Yeah.

[1620] It was for the...

[1621] I was doing the voice of Leonardo in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle series.

[1622] Okay.

[1623] But I had done a...

[1624] It was basically a series of tweets.

[1625] Okay.

[1626] Right?

[1627] Whether there was one about the Pope that I made a joke.

[1628] There was one about Malaysia Airlines.

[1629] All right.

[1630] Here people going, what the fuck?

[1631] I fucking made a joke about Malaysia Airlines?

[1632] What a fucking douchevats?

[1633] Oh, my God.

[1634] Anyway, it was a fucking funny tweet.

[1635] Fuck you guys.

[1636] But it was enough.

[1637] It was enough to get people calling Nickelodeon.

[1638] Like, hey, my kid watched, whatever.

[1639] Again, I could get into like, Your kid shouldn't be on my Twitter feed, and he's not, but whatever.

[1640] Anyway, I made the tweets, right?

[1641] And I knew that they weren't thrilled with them.

[1642] That's all I needed to know.

[1643] That should have been enough.

[1644] It wasn't.

[1645] Yeah.

[1646] I tweeted more.

[1647] Oh, boy.

[1648] What I thought were innocuous.

[1649] Double down.

[1650] Textbook, double down.

[1651] Double down.

[1652] Yeah.

[1653] And they were like, uh, we can't do this anymore.

[1654] Like, we're getting, our phone is literally ringing off the hook.

[1655] What had happened was like sort of super right wing group sort of just made it their mission to come after me and boycott the sponsors of the show and and um and it sort of went from there and and i think it really traumatized me in a way that i see now is like a really good thing i mean so you know my thing is i i struggle with this too because i'm like no i have a comedic persona and i have a comedic point of view and i'm entitled to make these observations and i'm supposed that's my role in society i can get real lofty about it yeah but then i have to admit to myself, yeah, you can do that, but then you also can't sell Samsung refrigerators.

[1656] Yep.

[1657] Yeah.

[1658] Exactly.

[1659] And guess what?

[1660] I want to sell Samsung refrigerators.

[1661] And then you have to go, you know what, that's someone else's lane.

[1662] There's another comedian who will do that.

[1663] Or I'll get like, I think I need to be making Sam Harris's point.

[1664] And I'll think I need to get in on some topic.

[1665] And I'll go, no, that's his lane.

[1666] Yeah.

[1667] You sell those goddamn refrigerators.

[1668] They're not going to sell themselves.

[1669] Yep.

[1670] Yep.

[1671] Okay.

[1672] And they are a great product, though, by the way.

[1673] I know, I know.

[1674] The whole line.

[1675] The washers.

[1676] All of it.

[1677] All of it.

[1678] Those Koreans know how to...

[1679] I didn't think they were, but now that you said it, coming from Dax Shepard now?

[1680] You should hear my wife say it.

[1681] You'll be run into a Best Buy.

[1682] All right, well, you guys, thank you so much for coming to the 10 o 'clock show.

[1683] You really showed your true colors tonight.

[1684] Please, Jason begs.

[1685] Thank you, Jason, for coming.

[1686] Thank you.

[1687] Thank you.

[1688] That was awesome.

[1689] Monica Padman, my partner in crime, the greatest lady, other than my wife and two girls.

[1690] Thank you guys so much, Brooklyn.

[1691] We've all been there.

[1692] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[1693] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[1694] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terror medical mystery.

[1695] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[1696] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[1697] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[1698] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[1699] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[1700] can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[1701] Who can it be knocking at my door?

[1702] Monica, come to check my facts some more.

[1703] I want to see if it got my facts right.

[1704] If I was wrong, I won't put up a fight.

[1705] All I wish for is to atone.

[1706] I spoke wrong from my armchair thrown.

[1707] Check facts for me now.

[1708] Check facts for me now.

[1709] Cool.

[1710] That was good.

[1711] That was from Sean Grindle.

[1712] Good job, Sean Grindle.

[1713] That was great.

[1714] Well, thanks for singing that song.

[1715] That was nice.

[1716] But we're here to talk about Bigsy.

[1717] Uh -huh.

[1718] What a sweetheart.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] Wasn't he a sweetheart?

[1721] Really nice person.

[1722] I really like him.

[1723] Yeah, I enjoyed meeting him, yeah.

[1724] Man, he's cute and he's funny.

[1725] Uh -huh.

[1726] You know?

[1727] It's the whole package.

[1728] He's really got it all.

[1729] No wonder he landed that babe, Jenny.

[1730] Mm -hmm.

[1731] He was also super funny.

[1732] and witty.

[1733] Yeah.

[1734] Attractive.

[1735] Yeah, they're a good pair.

[1736] Enfertil.

[1737] Sure.

[1738] They've had two kids.

[1739] Yeah.

[1740] She got it all.

[1741] Well, we don't want people to think who are infertled that they don't have at all.

[1742] There's nothing bad in the world?

[1743] Hmm?

[1744] Well, we don't even want to feel bad.

[1745] Of course not, but we can't say being fertile's good.

[1746] Sure, we can say whatever we want.

[1747] Yes.

[1748] Okay.

[1749] All right.

[1750] Well, you said that.

[1751] almost all of people who suffer from Munchausen's by proxy are nurses.

[1752] So Munchausen by proxy abusers are usually very knowledgeable about medical treatment options through experience as a patient, through training as a child care provider, or health care provider, or through library and internet research, it says.

[1753] Could be you.

[1754] Yeah, definitely.

[1755] It was reported that in 85 % of their 41 video documented cases, of Munchausen's by proxy, one or both parents had training in a field related to health care or in daycare.

[1756] Now, I don't really understand what that means.

[1757] Do they mean daycare, like a child care daycare?

[1758] I believe so.

[1759] They've cast a wide net in that definition.

[1760] Yeah, that was really the only number I could find.

[1761] Mine came from stuff you should know, which is a fun podcast, and they have an episode on Moon Chausen that you, you know.

[1762] should listen to.

[1763] And then it gives you the history of why it's even called Munchausen, which is a pretty fascinating story.

[1764] You know what it's called Munchausen?

[1765] No. There was a, I want to say, there was a German general Munchausen who had gone on some type of crusade.

[1766] And when he came back, he held all these tall tales, like he encountered monsters and stuff.

[1767] And he just embellished the hell out of what had happened on this crusade.

[1768] Yeah.

[1769] So just, I think it's synonymous with liar.

[1770] Yeah.

[1771] Wow.

[1772] Or exaggerate.

[1773] Yeah.

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] Someone trying to get attention for themselves.

[1776] I don't think, they're not lying, though.

[1777] Yeah, they are.

[1778] They're 100 % lying.

[1779] Well, no, they're giving themselves often the issue.

[1780] So they are experiencing the issue.

[1781] They're not like lying and saying their foot is broken.

[1782] They're breaking their foot.

[1783] Well, they're doing things, but the whole thing is a con. It's a lie.

[1784] They know they don't have cancer.

[1785] So they're shaving the little girl's hair.

[1786] And remember the one we watch, but yeah.

[1787] And even the people who have just moonshilds and not bioproxy, they are figuring out ways to fake symptoms and they're trying to get a false diagnosis.

[1788] So that's a lie.

[1789] Yeah, but yes and no. Like with Munchausen by proxy, often like, yeah, the mother, which is common that it's the female, like will poison the child and stuff.

[1790] And so those children are sick.

[1791] Oh, yeah, but the children aren't even who are assessing whether or not they're liars.

[1792] It's the person perpetuating the moonshous and whether it's by proxy or not, right?

[1793] Well, yeah, but if it's not by proxy, it's the same thing where like the poison element is still real.

[1794] But they are lying about it just happening to them or them getting them like going.

[1795] And they go to the hospital, yeah, they're lying, I guess.

[1796] Yeah.

[1797] I'm saying this just happened.

[1798] And they somehow are smart enough to know that if they use a certain kind of poison, it'll kind of trick a different diagnosis that they're going for.

[1799] Mm -hmm.

[1800] You know, people white blood cell count up or something.

[1801] Yeah, I was really scared of it because in the movie The Sixth Sense, Misha Barton, it has it.

[1802] She has Munchausen by proxy.

[1803] She's a ghost.

[1804] Oh, okay.

[1805] Sorry if this is a spoiler.

[1806] Well, that's not the big spoiler of the movie, so as long as you keep the big.

[1807] That's true.

[1808] So, yeah, she, like, comes out from under the bed, and she's all puky.

[1809] Oh.

[1810] Because she had Munchausen's bioproxie.

[1811] Her mom killed her.

[1812] Yeah.

[1813] Mm -hmm.

[1814] What a weird psychological situation there.

[1815] Yes.

[1816] Yeah.

[1817] I was very scared of that afterwards.

[1818] We're still allowed to say that's bad, right?

[1819] I think so.

[1820] Yeah.

[1821] Yeah.

[1822] Oh, it's how annoying I always say that as if everyone's under attack.

[1823] It must get old me saying that.

[1824] Do we still say that?

[1825] Right.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] Like, I feel like they're taking away everything from me. Yeah.

[1828] Anyway, so that's a scary disease.

[1829] I hope none of our armcherrys have it.

[1830] It's weird that we can even call it a disease.

[1831] It's a psychological disorder, for sure.

[1832] I guess if we're allowing people to say alcoholism is a disease.

[1833] and I guess we got to include Moonschausen.

[1834] Yeah, I don't think they want to be the type of person that wants to do that.

[1835] Right, no, probably not.

[1836] No one aspires, I doubt, to be that.

[1837] Yeah, yeah.

[1838] But if I weren't an alcoholic, I could imagine going like, it's not a fucking disease.

[1839] I know, but they're wrong.

[1840] You'd be wrong.

[1841] They're wrong.

[1842] Yeah.

[1843] But I can see it.

[1844] I'd be sympathetic to someone who's calling BS on it being a disease.

[1845] She'd go like, no, you catch a disease.

[1846] You can't catch alcoholism, although you do kind of catch it from your parents.

[1847] Well, you don't catch cancer.

[1848] Well, you catch your genes from them.

[1849] Huh?

[1850] Oh, yeah, you don't catch cancer, that's right.

[1851] You don't catch a lot of diseases.

[1852] That's true.

[1853] They just happen to your body.

[1854] Good point.

[1855] And I hope I don't catch cancer.

[1856] I hope you don't catch cancer either.

[1857] I don't want to catch Moonshausen either.

[1858] I don't want you to, because I feel like you're going to, but you're going to do it to me. Do you think you could get Moonshausens out from a salad bar?

[1859] You know, a lot of those things are transferred at a salad bar.

[1860] And I love salad bars.

[1861] They're my favorite.

[1862] I like them, too.

[1863] Oh, they're the greatest.

[1864] I never really thought.

[1865] You know, it's weird because I have, I think I'm kind of germophobic.

[1866] But I don't ever think about that when I'm at like a salad bar.

[1867] Well, that's the great jokes.

[1868] If you love something, you don't care, you don't give a shit.

[1869] I guess that's true.

[1870] People have sexual economists and stuff.

[1871] They're worried about SDDs, but in that moment they don't give it.

[1872] shit yeah you're right that's true what kind of salad do you make at a salad bar heavy on the iceberg always some grated cheese me too mushrooms chickpeas oh okay i always mixed dressings i always with at least three dressings on there oh if they've got a turkey option i'll throw that on there oh wow i'd say the bulk of my cellar experience those from from my big boys in michigan it was elias brother's big boys out here it's bob's what was it in jose what was it Georgia.

[1873] I don't know.

[1874] I don't think we have it.

[1875] Well, I think they all turned into shonies by the time you were.

[1876] Shonies, yes.

[1877] Yeah, most of the big boys in the South converted to shonies.

[1878] But anyways, they have that beautiful Bob's Big Boys, Blue Cheese, which is the star of the show.

[1879] So I like to try to, I won't overload a salad at Big Boys because I don't want anything to steal the blue cheese is thunder.

[1880] Oh, I see.

[1881] And I know you don't like blue cheese, crumble blue cheese, but a lot of people who don't like blue cheese dressing do like Bob's big boy oh wait no I've had it you have it at your house yes of course I do and I do like it yeah it's really good there's no blue cheese it transcends blue cheese even though there are chunks of blue cheese in there oh yeah wow it is great great a great dressing I make um I don't know what lettuce I don't think I have normally at those things you don't have lettuce options Unless we're at like whole foods or something.

[1882] Right.

[1883] Which we're not talking about that kind of salad bar.

[1884] Although Sizzler does have spinach on the bar.

[1885] Oh, really?

[1886] Oh, spinach is the one thing that I'm sort of a little bit weary of in an environment like that.

[1887] Because my mom told me to be scared of that and I am.

[1888] Yeah, I have no doubt to back this up.

[1889] But I feel like when I hear about some kind of Listeria outbreak, it's generally on a darker.

[1890] I can't remember a time where they said, don't eat iceberg.

[1891] Can't remember it.

[1892] Wait, didn't it just happen?

[1893] No, that was Romaine.

[1894] Another dark, dense green.

[1895] Romaine is not that dark.

[1896] It's much darker than iceberg.

[1897] Yeah, well, iceberg's white.

[1898] While we're on the topic of salads, my very favorite salad, as you probably already know, is a blue cheese wedge.

[1899] I know.

[1900] I think everyone knows.

[1901] They do?

[1902] I think we've talked about that.

[1903] Oh, I love a wedge.

[1904] Yeah.

[1905] Okay.

[1906] So, oh, I just wanted to clarify.

[1907] Because you say that, or he is talking about his dad's work and how he got to take his son there.

[1908] Well, it was in shipping, right?

[1909] Like where they were on the cranes and the shipping, yes.

[1910] And now that's moving towards automation.

[1911] And so he said he and his dad lost his job and he said he felt really lucky that he got to take his kid before that happened.

[1912] And you said, yeah, until it's only the computer kids who get to do it.

[1913] And it kind of sounded like you were saying, like, children of people who work in computers, but you meant little baby computers, tiny computers walking around with tiny computer legs.

[1914] That's right.

[1915] When AI hits its peak, I can only assume that they'll want to procreate.

[1916] Sure.

[1917] And then they'll, of course, be little tiny little computers with legs.

[1918] Sounds cute.

[1919] It sure does.

[1920] Milling about the docks.

[1921] But these little computers will be so smart that they won't, like, hurt themselves like kids' babies do.

[1922] That's true.

[1923] So it's nice.

[1924] The kids can do whatever they want.

[1925] They're not going to, like, jump off or fall into the water.

[1926] I can see them losing their balance because I'm picturing very cube -like little beans with little tiny legs.

[1927] But they're smart enough.

[1928] There's some sense that will go off before they get too close to the edge because they're made of computer.

[1929] I mean, you make a great point, but these drones do crash.

[1930] But humans are programming that.

[1931] Well, I guess you're right.

[1932] You always got to restart everything.

[1933] I don't care how good it gets.

[1934] You know, even the best now phone and computer in the world, you got to reboot those things all the time.

[1935] Yeah.

[1936] So maybe you lose one computer baby every 10 years, but for the most part, those babies are doing good.

[1937] Yeah, they're going to be, they're going to be with us.

[1938] Yeah.

[1939] It's a cute thought.

[1940] Oh, okay, when he was on Broadway as a kid, he said he did a play with Dave Krumholtz.

[1941] Yes, and we just saw Krumholtz and something.

[1942] Yes, but I didn't know that's who it was.

[1943] I didn't know him by name.

[1944] So me and you recently watched a little bit of the Ballad of Buster Scruggs on Netflix.

[1945] Which Krumholtz was in?

[1946] He's in, but I didn't know that, and we didn't say that, but he popped on the screen and I said, is that the guy from 10 Things I Hate About You?

[1947] And you said, I don't know.

[1948] And then today, when I was doing my fact check, and I was like, who's this Dave Krumholtz?

[1949] I pulled him up, and it was that guy.

[1950] Yeah.

[1951] And then I looked it up, and it was the guy from 10 Things I Hate About you.

[1952] Yeah.

[1953] Well, that's great.

[1954] I was introduced to him through slums of Beverly Hills, which was a fun movie with Natasha Leone.

[1955] Oh, cool.

[1956] Yeah.

[1957] I also thought it was interesting because I guess, you know, They started together in this play, and then they were working at the same time because Jason did American Pie and Crumholtz.

[1958] Did 10 Things I Hate About You, and that's all right around the same time.

[1959] They kept at it.

[1960] And they were both in these popular teen movies.

[1961] Yeah.

[1962] That's cool.

[1963] Crumholtz has a very distinct voice.

[1964] Yes.

[1965] I hope if you don't know who he is, you should Google him right now because you'll immediately know who he is.

[1966] If you see him.

[1967] Google him.

[1968] Yeah.

[1969] Do it.

[1970] Okay.

[1971] Oh, we talk about the pronunciation of economics versus economics.

[1972] And I gave a reasoning that I made up.

[1973] Okay.

[1974] And I just want to tell people that I made that up.

[1975] So that's not real.

[1976] Okay.

[1977] That went during the interview.

[1978] During the interview, I made up an explanation.

[1979] That doesn't hold water.

[1980] And I made it up.

[1981] Completely.

[1982] And everyone believed me. Oh, right.

[1983] I remember that moment.

[1984] Yeah.

[1985] And I gotten a little bit nervous about your powers.

[1986] Yeah.

[1987] And they need to be, there needs to be some kind of mechanism that checks your superpowers.

[1988] Yeah.

[1989] Cross the line a little bit.

[1990] Yeah.

[1991] That's okay.

[1992] Welcome back.

[1993] Thanks.

[1994] And then I looked it up and on the YouTube pronunciation.

[1995] It's economics?

[1996] No, it's economics.

[1997] Economics?

[1998] Yeah.

[1999] Still don't like it.

[2000] You wish it was economic.

[2001] Yeah.

[2002] Because you don't like that hard E. That long E. Yeah.

[2003] I like a short E. You do?

[2004] Yeah, economics.

[2005] I bet it's because you think economics sounds.

[2006] Hoity tooty.

[2007] Blue Blood, East Coast, Connecticut, trust fund, old money.

[2008] Does anyone know what the economics of this situation are?

[2009] Yeah.

[2010] Economics.

[2011] But that's what it is.

[2012] All right.

[2013] Well, they're often.

[2014] right those rich people they are yeah yeah it's probably why they got so rich i mean we should have been able to guess that because you you shorten it as econ you would never shorten it as accon no that would be strange eccon tole the power of now that's a book echart tole that sounds familiar yeah erin ecart aran at cart elkhart lake indiana um um ebb Ebony and Ivory.

[2015] Ebb and flow.

[2016] All right.

[2017] So I looked into what the first movie was that had a red band trailer.

[2018] And I could not find info on that.

[2019] It was crazy.

[2020] I mean, I found a lot on like red band trailers, but not the first movie.

[2021] And then I was suspic.

[2022] Okay.

[2023] Because I felt like that should have come up quick.

[2024] But he made a claim.

[2025] that it was the first one?

[2026] No, he didn't.

[2027] Oh, okay.

[2028] Just it was new.

[2029] The whole thing was new.

[2030] It was new, and that made me curious, like, what was the first one?

[2031] Yeah.

[2032] And I couldn't find it.

[2033] So if anyone knows and wants to tell us...

[2034] You'd appreciate it.

[2035] I'd really appreciate it, yeah.

[2036] All right.

[2037] So you said that Mickey Roark and Lisa Bonnet made real love in Angel Heart.

[2038] I hope I said they're rumored to have.

[2039] I wasn't there.

[2040] I didn't.

[2041] Oh.

[2042] Oh.

[2043] It was in like a joke.

[2044] Oh, okay.

[2045] That is the rumor I've heard many times.

[2046] I saw that there was some rumors, and then I saw a lot of people saying, no, that rumor is not true.

[2047] Oh, really?

[2048] Yeah.

[2049] Did you watch the scene in Angel Heart?

[2050] I didn't watch it, but I want to, based on what I was reading.

[2051] I, yeah, y 'i.

[2052] Because the controversy is like, it was given an X rating because of that scene, and then they had to cut a lot of that out to give it the R rating.

[2053] I don't think you could find a prettier human being ever to be on screen than her in that movie.

[2054] That is that that is the top of Everest, in my opinion.

[2055] Yeah.

[2056] She doesn't even look like a human being.

[2057] Yeah.

[2058] She looks like she's from the Avatar films or something.

[2059] Right.

[2060] Like a different, like Navi, like too good for us, you know?

[2061] Yeah.

[2062] Yeah.

[2063] At least a bonnet.

[2064] Yeah.

[2065] What a beauty.

[2066] She is, yeah.

[2067] And then she got with a beauty, a real big beauty, Lenny Kravitz.

[2068] Uh -huh.

[2069] It made another beauty.

[2070] And then, just when you thought she couldn't top that, she marries Jason Mamoa.

[2071] Wait, Zoe Kravitz.

[2072] No, Lisa Bonnet is married to Jason Mamo.

[2073] Zoe Kravitz is Lisa Bonnet's daughter?

[2074] I did not know that.

[2075] I did not know that.

[2076] Makes sense, right?

[2077] It does.

[2078] Yeah.

[2079] It definitely does.

[2080] It really holds.

[2081] told this story publicly, so I don't mind telling it here.

[2082] I don't think I'm breaking anyone's confidence.

[2083] But, you know, Lisa Bonnet, all -time number one.

[2084] I know I say that about, there's a couple people I say that about, I've got to be a little more careful.

[2085] Because, of course, Neff Campbell, I was so in love with from Party of Five.

[2086] But just aesthetically, for me, Lisa Bonnet, number one.

[2087] Met her at a party, and they were together.

[2088] Who?

[2089] Zoe and Lisa.

[2090] Yes, which her name now is Lilacoy, moon.

[2091] which of course I know because I'm a bit super fan well anyways Kristen said oh my gosh there's Lisa Bonnet you got to go dance with her and I spent the evening dancing with her it was so wonderful oh wow yeah that's a dream come true yeah yeah yeah and then the the part of the story that then turns is that was that happened I danced with her I think I made a good impression then we ran into her at the Game of Thrones premiere yeah and that's when we went in tank tops that said, stark in the streets, wildling in the sheets.

[2092] And we put tattoos all over ourselves.

[2093] But I got separated from Kristen.

[2094] And it was kind of a premiere.

[2095] Everyone was dressed up in like suits and dress, beautiful dresses.

[2096] And I kind of went up to Lisa and I was so excited to see her again.

[2097] And I started talking to her and I all of a sudden felt very insecure about my outfit.

[2098] And all these tattoos I had all over myself.

[2099] So then I quickly said, Kristen did it too.

[2100] And then I had to find Kristen to back up the fact that we both look stupid.

[2101] That's funny.

[2102] I'm sure she thought it was cute.

[2103] I hope so.

[2104] It looked pretty awkward by myself.

[2105] If I was the only one there like that, it's one thing to go as a team with Kristen, but it's another thing to just show up by yourself in a tank top at a red carpet event with tattoos all over.

[2106] That's true.

[2107] Yeah.

[2108] How old is Lisa Bonnet?

[2109] Well, I don't know.

[2110] But she was on the Cosby show, and that's what.

[2111] where I discovered her beauty.

[2112] Yeah, I guess she was on the Cosby show.

[2113] Yeah, and then there's also some famous riff -ref about Bill Cosby because she did that movie and she was naked in it and he was very disapproving and he shamed her about it.

[2114] And look who's the fucking hypocrite.

[2115] Oh, my God.

[2116] I know, there's many things to be offended about his story, but the one thing to me that really, really gets me angry is the hypocrisy.

[2117] Yeah.

[2118] The moral high ground, he was always on preaching to people, telling Pryor and Eddie Murphy not to swear in their routines, you know, about that.

[2119] He's trying to shame Lisa Bonnet for being nude.

[2120] Wow.

[2121] And here this piece of shit is drugging people.

[2122] Yeah.

[2123] Next time someone's standing in their ivory tower telling you about all your moral indiscretion.

[2124] It's a big red flag for me. Yeah.

[2125] When someone, yeah.

[2126] When someone feels like - Do you think they'll change the name to that's a Cowsby flag?

[2127] Sure.

[2128] We can start that if you want.

[2129] Okay, we'll try.

[2130] Yeah, when someone appears to have all the answers, they normally don't have any.

[2131] Yeah.

[2132] Yeah.

[2133] Interesting.

[2134] Well, that is all.

[2135] That's it?

[2136] There was not very many facts.

[2137] Yeah, I love them.

[2138] I also love you.

[2139] I love you.

[2140] What color would you say you're wearing?

[2141] Because I would say red and then you would disagree.

[2142] I'll say red.

[2143] I'll be you at red.

[2144] Okay, a little orange in there.

[2145] It's an orange red.

[2146] Yeah.

[2147] It's really making that brown skin pop.

[2148] Yeah.

[2149] Nice pop.

[2150] My shit skin.

[2151] Oh, no, don't say that.

[2152] But we should recommend those two documentaries we watched.

[2153] Yeah.

[2154] We watched two documentaries, one called White Right?

[2155] I think so.

[2156] Yep, about a British female of Pakistani descent and her experience with racism.

[2157] I mean, she goes and sits down with a bunch of white nationals.

[2158] That's fascinating.

[2159] And then hit me with the name of the second one.

[2160] Accidental courtesy.

[2161] Accidental courtesy.

[2162] Also amazing about Daryl Davis, jazz musician, who similarly befriended a lot of clan members and convinced many to leave.

[2163] Yeah.

[2164] We watched them in very close proximity to each other.

[2165] And it was a lot of feel bad and feel goodness.

[2166] I agree.

[2167] Feel badness and feel good.

[2168] goodness.

[2169] Yeah, and I, and I, um, I was able to see my own hypocrisy a little bit.

[2170] What way?

[2171] Well, if you recall, I was able to sympathize with some of these white nationalists because I could just see that they were really lonely, rejected human beings that were willing to accept any ideology to have some friends.

[2172] Like I could, I was able to see it through those stories.

[2173] And I realized that I would not be as keen to observe that in an ISIS member.

[2174] And I realized it was just a failing of my own empathy because they don't look like me. Yeah.

[2175] And I need to remember that.

[2176] Yeah.

[2177] That's great.

[2178] Yeah.

[2179] And you were having a little more, a little bit harder of a time than I was being sympathetic to them.

[2180] Well, no, I wasn't.

[2181] I was sympathetic.

[2182] But I guess sometimes I get worried that the sympathy for them will shadow the sympathy for the victim.

[2183] That's what I get worried about in those conversations.

[2184] But I was very, very.

[2185] Well, I don't think, yeah, I would imagine your fear is that through sympathy, there somehow would be tolerance for their behavior.

[2186] So I have zero tolerance for their behavior.

[2187] Yeah.

[2188] But I have a ton of sympathy for what would lead you to that bizarre.

[2189] Yeah, yeah, I do too.

[2190] And none of the people in this documentaries were like crushing it their whole life and decided to, you know, start marching around with teaky torches.

[2191] Yeah, and there was all these moments where like when they were face to face with her in the white nationalist one, they like felt so uncomfortable.

[2192] Like she'd asked them straight up, like she'd read tweets and that would say something.

[2193] They called her shit skin, which is what started this conversation.

[2194] Yeah, exactly.

[2195] And they asked her like, stop, stop saying that.

[2196] I don't want you to call yourself that.

[2197] It was so weird.

[2198] Yeah.

[2199] And then for me, I was just like, oh, my God, just the answer to all of this is just diversity, just having, exposing young people to all the kinds of people.

[2200] I always say that, but I really, like, this was such a good indication of where it can go if you don't do that.

[2201] Well, some of the people in this documentary are talking to her, and she is the first Muslim they've ever spoken to.

[2202] And in Daryl Davis's case, a lot of the people, that he's the first black person they've ever talked to.

[2203] But regardless, I did recognize my own failings, my own empathy failings.

[2204] Interesting.

[2205] It's harder for me to find that sympathy and forgiveness when the people don't look like me. Yeah.

[2206] Can't imagine I'm alone.

[2207] I can't either.

[2208] I think that's why we have problems.

[2209] But, yeah, but that's, yeah.

[2210] You have a good on you, mate.

[2211] All right, love you.

[2212] Bye, I love you.

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[2216] What's up, guys?

[2217] your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest okay every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation and I don't mean just friends I mean the likes of Amy Polar Kell Mitchell Vivica Fox the list goes on so follow watch and listen to baby this is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast