83 - The MFM/Unqualified with Anna Faris Crossover Special Pt. 2

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Murders in the Building premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] You guys, we have some tour updates for you for the My Favorite Murder Live Show tour.

[17] Are you ready?

[18] Listen to this.

[19] Wednesday, September 6th, Auckland, New Zealand, we're going to see you soon.

[20] Come to the show.

[21] Sunday, September 10th, we'll be in Melbourne at the comedy theater.

[22] We added a third show to that.

[23] Thursday, September 12th, Sydney, Australia, at the freaking Sydney Opera House.

[24] That's the second Sydney show.

[25] We really want to sell the Opera House out.

[26] How cool would that be?

[27] Friday, September 29th, we're going to be at the Fillmore in Detroit, Michigan.

[28] That's the second night, second show that night.

[29] Saturday, September 30th, Toronto, Canada.

[30] and then we have a couple new tour dates to announce one day what come i'm sorry it's okay go you got it all right and then we have a couple new tour dates wednesday october 18th minneapolis uh we will be there does that say minneapolis michigan and that's why i didn't say it wait where's minneapolis oh shit Georgia and real hard Minneapolis, Michigan Minnesota Even I know that one Guess I'm going to Minnesota It's not just Okay, so we're going to be in Minneapolis on Michigan October 18th Yeah Saturday, November 11th Dallas, Texas There's a late show And also Saturday, December 9th We'll be in Kansas City We're adding a late show at the Midland Theater Fuck yeah, Kansas City.

[31] Oh, go to My Favorite Murder .com slash live.

[32] We also made a Facebook event page on our Facebook, My Favorite Murder .com slash MFM podcast with links to buy the correct non -scalped tickets.

[33] Yes, and then also once you get your tickets, those are the pages to go to to check.

[34] If there are any updates, if you hear rumors of cancellation, if you hear anything to change, just go to our MFM Facebook live show pages and you can get all the latest information there.

[35] Right.

[36] So a pre -sale is on now.

[37] Password for pre -sail is murderino in all lowercase.

[38] Bye.

[39] Sim, this is when you're supposed to talk.

[40] Well, this is part two.

[41] I'm excited that we're all back here.

[42] Thank you for showing up again.

[43] No problem.

[44] It's a long drive, but worth it.

[45] It's so crazy you're wearing the same.

[46] I know.

[47] Well, I love it, though.

[48] This is my Thursday shirt.

[49] All right, so we're going to start with Anna first.

[50] She's going to do her favorite murder.

[51] After that, we'll go to Georgia.

[52] You'll do yours.

[53] We have one more advice call, and then, we're done with the show.

[54] Are we calling this my favorite unqualified?

[55] My favorite unqualified.

[56] I love it.

[57] Did we already?

[58] Can I, I didn't mean to cut you off, Georgia.

[59] There was nothing else to say.

[60] I feel that way all the time.

[61] I wish you would just start.

[62] Okay, so I have to tell you though, I have to qualify this with, this is actually like a story that I remember very vividly and kind of has sort of haunted me throughout Hollywood and like and the idea of.

[63] sort of becoming well -known, shall we say famous.

[64] Oh, my God, my God.

[65] I think I might know.

[66] Do you?

[67] Maybe.

[68] I have two ideas of what it could be.

[69] It's like, as all of these stories are horribly tragic.

[70] Oh, I know it.

[71] You do?

[72] I bet I do.

[73] What?

[74] No, I'm excited.

[75] No. No, no. It's terrifying because, you know, I live here, like, whatever, like in a weird home.

[76] Give them your address.

[77] Yeah.

[78] And anytime there's a ding -dong in the back of my mind, um, this story comes up a little bit, um, which is, uh, Rebecca Schaefer.

[79] Oh, shit.

[80] Is that what you were going to guess?

[81] You were?

[82] Karen, you were going to guess it?

[83] It was either Rebecca Schaefer or Teresa Saldana is the other one.

[84] Yes.

[85] I was going to get Sharon Tate.

[86] So I was, oh.

[87] Oh, I couldn't go quite there.

[88] But this is, this is one of the most, well, they're all tragic stories, aren't they?

[89] It's so sad.

[90] Okay.

[91] So Rebecca was born November 6th, 1967 and raised in Portland, Oregon.

[92] And she wanted to grow up being a rabbi, but when she was 14 years old, her good looks caught the attention of a cattle call, which my good looks never caught the attention of a cattle call.

[93] My good looks caught the attention of a temple, of a rabbi.

[94] Hey.

[95] At a local modeling agency, less than two years later, in 1984, after appearing in a number of Portland area publications, she went to New York to pursue her modeling career.

[96] her modeling career didn't take off due to being only 5 '7, which, oh, poor thing.

[97] Gross.

[98] So she decided to focus on acting, quickly appearing in television commercials, 17 magazine, Woody Allen's film Radio Days in One Life to Live.

[99] So she became very successful.

[100] She was a stunningly...

[101] Who was she in Radio Days?

[102] It was cut.

[103] Oh, son of a bitch.

[104] That movie's so good.

[105] In 1986, at the age of 18, her work caught the attention of Los Angeles casting director.

[106] and she was cast in the CBS sitcom, My Sister Sam, playing the character of Patty.

[107] Sam's next door, Sam's girl next door sister?

[108] What the fuck?

[109] Who wrote this thing?

[110] Yeah.

[111] Okay, anyway, now she's living in L .A. Rebecca was on the fast track to stardom.

[112] Can I just say that my sister and I loved my sister Sam from the second it came out.

[113] We loved her so much.

[114] She was just one, she looks like one of those classic All -American girls.

[115] curly hair great face beautiful but also like sweet yeah you could feel her positive because i watched it too and you could feel like her i don't know i hate to say positive energy that sounds like a very l -a thing to say but but a warmth she had the sandra bullock feel to her where you're like oh i'm friends with her already yeah um so now we have the stalker the stalker the stocker comes into play that was a fucking stalker yep Robert john bardo so he was a 19 year old tucson resident Bardo repeatedly had a troubled childhood, an alcoholic mom and mentally ill father.

[116] He was abused by one of his siblings and placed in foster care after he threatened to commit suicide.

[117] He was diagnosed with manic depression and at one time institutionalized for a month for emotional problems.

[118] Don't put your fucking kid in foster care if he wants to kill himself.

[119] No kidding.

[120] So beyond that timeline, beyond that eight, you, it says here on my info.

[121] sheet.

[122] Beyond that Tim time, he received professional help.

[123] Beyond that Tim time, he received professional help.

[124] But, okay, back to my sweet Rebecca.

[125] At age 16, before stalking Rebecca, he stocked a child peace activist, which I always thought was an interesting detail.

[126] Is that her choice?

[127] How do you find the child peace activist?

[128] But anyway.

[129] This wonderful woman named Samantha Smith, who tragically died in a 1985 plane crash, which weirdly was a year of a lot of plane crashes.

[130] 85?

[131] Yeah, 1988.

[132] Is that John Denver?

[133] I don't know.

[134] I don't know.

[135] Probably.

[136] Don't ask me too many questions.

[137] I'm just got to read the Tim Time sheet, okay?

[138] Karen usually knows these weird obscure facts.

[139] I was scraping my brain.

[140] Was that the one where the rugby team ate each other?

[141] Yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah, could be.

[142] That counts for three, that one.

[143] Anyway, so this fellow, Bardo, he was lonely, and he spent a lot of time watching television, believe it or not.

[144] He discovered Rebecca's sitcom, my sister Sam, and he became pretty smitten.

[145] He saw her as beautiful and wholesome.

[146] Wholesome.

[147] God, can I even say that again?

[148] Wholesome?

[149] That's like how you describe oatmeal.

[150] but but innocent i think is is sort of the major point that we will get to later um and he collected her magazine covers and talked about her as if they were friends i don't know who you talked to her but because i don't think he had a lot of friends maybe he just the clerk the gross fake store clerk yeah he's like he bought the magazine from so over the course of three years he wrote you know a ton of letters to rebecca and one letter was answered by an employee of shafers rebecca shafers fan club and and He was encouraged by that.

[151] He came to Los Angeles, hoping to meet her on the set of her sitcom, My Sister Sam, but he was turned away by Warner Brothers Security.

[152] He was pissed.

[153] He returned a month later, armed with a knife.

[154] But security guards once again prevented him from gaining access to the actress.

[155] I don't know why.

[156] Yeah.

[157] You can't get on to that Warner Brothers lot.

[158] You can't.

[159] Not the first time.

[160] The second time, they're like, come on in.

[161] I would love it if somebody was like, I got a knife.

[162] I got a seer.

[163] Oh, well, then you should have said that the last time you were here.

[164] Sir.

[165] Okay, so he later said that he brought the knife because he thought Rebecca was becoming too arrogant.

[166] The security weirdly thought that he was just harmless and lovesick.

[167] And he was never reported to the police.

[168] No, no. So, once again, very upset.

[169] He returned to Tucson and lost focus on Schaefer for just a little while.

[170] His obsession shifted towards pop singers.

[171] Debbie Gibson and Tiffany.

[172] Oh, I mean, mine did too, but I was in a fucking psychopath.

[173] I mean, 85.

[174] What choice did we have?

[175] Right?

[176] They were on their mall tours.

[177] Yeah.

[178] So during this period, he was arrested three times on charges, including domestic violence and disorderly conduct.

[179] Okay, now we're getting to the actual tragic event.

[180] And I hope our listeners know and everybody knows that this, I'm simply like the scary movie, one, two, three, four actress, not five, too old.

[181] Wait, explain to me. I did not understand that.

[182] Well, she's been in all the scary movies.

[183] But, so I don't have a, I don't, I don't, but, but fame is an odd thing.

[184] And I don't think that, I hope, I hope nobody comes over and does a ding -dong.

[185] There's so, we could talk about this for a half an hour.

[186] Right.

[187] But I do, um, yes, but, but, but the obsession.

[188] with fame um is something that uh at times has freaked me out just a little bit not too much because you know i'm simply that that other one um not like a beautiful 21 year old who stars on a massive well honey it's okay you're not going to seem arrogant oh thank you are scared of psychopaths um so on june 3rd 1989 um our murderer turned his attention back to repeat Becca after watching her in the black comedy Class Struggle in Beverly Hills.

[189] You see that?

[190] Have you seen that?

[191] Yes.

[192] But is that the name of it?

[193] It's not class struggle on Beverly Hills.

[194] It's this, is it true Beverly Hills?

[195] No, no, no, that's right.

[196] Class struggle in Beverly Hills.

[197] Oh, do you guys want to fight?

[198] Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[199] That'd be amazing.

[200] Do it.

[201] What am I?

[202] I'm thinking of the one with Nick Nolte.

[203] Right, no, this was like a, I'm sure it was like a B movie.

[204] Oh, I'm sorry.

[205] No, no, no. So she had a scene in bed with a man and um yeah and bardo went into a jealous rage and decided that she should be punished for becoming another hollywood whore fucking arrogant piece of shit i know he believed that she had lost her innocence so he paid a detective agency 250 dollars to find schaefer's home address in california dmv records no and bardo's brother helped him get a handgun because he was only 19 i guess maybe in Tucson, you can't get a gun.

[206] I'm sure the laws have changed.

[207] You can get a gun now when you're nine.

[208] You actually get one automatically when you're eight years old.

[209] And automatic, automatically.

[210] Okay, so on July 18th, 1989, he traveled to Los Angeles a third time.

[211] I bet do you think he drove or did you?

[212] I think he took a bus, right?

[213] I remember watching like a reenactment thing and he's like do -de -do off a bus, like a greyhound.

[214] Oh, boy.

[215] I bet it smells.

[216] Wonderful.

[217] Okay, so we went to her apartment, which is in the Fairfax district, around 6 .30 a .m. Oh, no. Can you imagine?

[218] So, he rang the doorbell.

[219] The intercom was not working that day.

[220] Oh, that fucking manager.

[221] Oh, my God.

[222] Manager and detective need to go on an island.

[223] Yes.

[224] Stay there.

[225] So Schaefer was up preparing for an audition for the role in Godfather, Part 3.

[226] Oh, she was up so early.

[227] So she answered the door.

[228] door, Bardo showed Schaefer a letter and autograph that she had previously sent him, probably through the agency that sends that stuff out.

[229] Rebecca thanked him and said she was busy and had to go.

[230] So then Bardo went to a local diner and had breakfast and he was very disappointed.

[231] An hour later, 10 .15 a .m., he returned to Schaefer's apartment for the second time.

[232] Schaefer answered the door again.

[233] This is a weird detail.

[234] I know.

[235] It's weird.

[236] Wearing a black bathrobe, which maybe she looked, of course she looked incredibly hot and maybe that agitated him even more.

[237] She was about to get dressed for her audition.

[238] He pulled a gun from a brown paper bag and shot her in the chest at point blank range in the doorway of her apartment building.

[239] And Schaefer apparently became screaming, why, why?

[240] She collapsed in her doorway as Bartow fled.

[241] A neighbor phoned paramedics who arrived to transfer to Cedars Sinai Medical Center and she was pronounced dead 30 minutes after her arrival.

[242] And she was 21 when she died.

[243] And so anyway, he was arrested a day later in Tucson, Arizona, after motorist reported a man running through traffic on the 10, and he immediately confessed to the murder.

[244] So in 1991, he was brought to trial and prosecuted by Marsha Clark.

[245] Wow.

[246] That's weird.

[247] Yeah.

[248] And during the trial, Bartle claimed that the U -2 song, Exit was an influence in the murder the song played in the courtroom as evidence which one is that someone sing it to me i don't know every breath no i swear to god i feel like you two would know so much trivia and i'm sorry no um i don't yeah oh boy it's so this is a hard one for me to talk about yeah a little bit well they're all hard aren't they they're all awful yeah yeah um so bardo's attorneys argued that he was mentally ill. The schizophrenia had led him to commit the murder.

[249] So he was convicted of capital murder and he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

[250] But here's the good, sort of good news after all of this is that the driver's privacy protection act was enacted in 1994, which prevents the DMV from releasing private addresses.

[251] So there are now anti -stalking laws in every state.

[252] And in 1989, in the wake of the murder, L .A. police created the nation's first team specializing in stalking investigations.

[253] Also, California was the first date to criminalize stalking in the United States in 1990, following her murder and a string of other high -profile assaults.

[254] But that also came on the heels of Teresa Saldana.

[255] So that is something that I just resonates with me just because of the obsession, I guess, with fame and how scary sometimes it can be when people feel very familiar with you.

[256] Yeah, they know you.

[257] So it's not weird to them that they're coming to talk to you.

[258] And they don't ever flip it and see that it's like something out of the blue.

[259] Also, it just kills me because that idea of like, you move to L .A., you get a job.

[260] You get like a good apartment.

[261] And you're in that mode.

[262] I'm sure she didn't think I'm famous because she was like, it was like, you know, she's on that show.

[263] Maybe she's in one movie or whatever.

[264] And I feel like in L .A. you get people talk to you a lot less.

[265] Like they know that, you know.

[266] And I think that people maybe think that like I imagine now, like at the time she probably was making a nice chunk of change, but probably not enough.

[267] She was still living in an unsecured apartment.

[268] Right.

[269] And because why wouldn't she necessarily be?

[270] And I just want you two to know that I have a fucking ton of cameras around here.

[271] that's fucking right either of you try to take me out I've already spray painted over half of them I'm going to finish well listen like I want to reiterate I'm 40 you know it's not the sexiest of murders if somebody comes I'm not like I'll just to make you feel better it took me fucking forever to find this house so I think you're okay even if they could break into the...

[272] Give them the address and be like, I bet you can't find it.

[273] Go ahead.

[274] Challenge.

[275] It is...

[276] I mean, it's just super sad.

[277] Sometimes those are the only highlights of when we tell our stories is stuff like that where, you know, it's such a tragedy that Rebecca Schaefer had to die.

[278] But then they finally were like, oh, that's right.

[279] You shouldn't be able to know anyone's address.

[280] And you shouldn't be able to walk up to anybody's house.

[281] And you shouldn't, if you tell eight people that you're obsessed with somebody that should count against you, you know, stalking is a very serious thing.

[282] That's not, that wasn't, and it's probably still not taken seriously by a lot of law enforcement officials.

[283] No offense.

[284] It is now.

[285] Right.

[286] It is the point.

[287] Yeah.

[288] Yeah.

[289] Yeah, like you were saying that it hasn't been taken seriously because there's so much ego involved.

[290] Like, there's a dismissal of that, especially as a woman.

[291] Um, having said that, if anyone out there would like to stalk me. um no please submit your application no no let us know cancel cancel your history of violence edit that out edit that out wow that's I'm so sorry I know I know so sad but like you were saying Karen that thankfully it's changed some things well and also the Teresa Salada story is so insane I saw that as a kid on TV is she the sister from Poltergeist that's Dominic Dunn's daughter Dominique.

[292] No, it's, um, it was, uh, it was the woman who was the wife in raging bull.

[293] So she was just starting her acting career and getting kind of amazing parts.

[294] And she also had to stalk her.

[295] And she, and he did the exact same thing.

[296] He walked up to her apartment door and stabbed her.

[297] And actually the Colligan man was walking up delivering water to somebody else's apartment.

[298] And he got, I think he saved her.

[299] He either pulled the guy off of her or like got her.

[300] Like he, the Culligan man saved her life, and she, you know, went on to advocate for all those laws, too.

[301] That's like the end of so many of our stories are like, you know, the victim's family then went on to do great things.

[302] Amazing thing.

[303] That's, like, the only way I feel like you can personally survive these horrific things happening is if you try to make it worth, like, make their, make their, the tragedy worth, like, hopefully prevention of.

[304] right like we did that we've done the umber law amber alert girl we's amber um and we did um megan's law you know that's why i keep the guillotine though outside the house warning just as a kind of like a simple yeah warning yeah come fuck with me yeah i'll fuck with you dicks here's what i'm just like that x guy standing there like right i just have some packages for you you fucking with me yeah oh you're bringing me my clothes yeah all right Oh, okay, I'll take those.

[305] But don't fuck with me. But give me my fucking boots.

[306] Hey, this is exciting.

[307] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[308] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[309] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[310] Who killed Saz?

[311] And were they really after Charles?

[312] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[313] This season, murder hits close to home.

[314] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[315] Plus, the gang is going to go.

[316] Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[317] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[318] Who knows what'll happen once the cameras start to roll?

[319] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfinacus, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, Devine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[320] Only Martyrs in the building premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[321] Goodbye.

[322] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[323] Absolutely.

[324] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[325] Exactly.

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[341] That's shopify .com slash murder.

[342] Goodbye.

[343] Georgie, what do you have for us?

[344] Well, I have a serial killer I'd never ever heard of in one of those.

[345] Like there's just some, this BuzzFeed or some website that I found that like the craziest murderer in every state.

[346] And this guy was Florida.

[347] So you know he's fucking top notch.

[348] You know what I mean?

[349] I love it that we have like Washington crazy serial killers and then Florida.

[350] Like it's like, yeah, I love it.

[351] And we're doing three shows in.

[352] Florida.

[353] And Florida was like, when are you going to come to do a live show here?

[354] And we're like, oh, you have the best murders.

[355] We're coming there for three shows.

[356] Like no other state that we're doing three shows in.

[357] All right.

[358] September 15th, 2004.

[359] So friends of Michelle Jones, she's a pretty vivacious, 37 -year -old executive at the Golf Channel in Orlando, were worried because they couldn't reach her, which is like the beginning of every murder story, right?

[360] Michelle's aunt, and uncle Charlie Brandt and Terry Hellfrich were staying with her for a few days because they had been evacuated from their home in a seafront villa near Key West there was Hurricane Ivan was coming and they had to get the fuck out of there Michelle is like the niece and they're very...

[361] The least sexy name for a hurricane, sorry.

[362] Ivan.

[363] Did you hear the thing about how hurricanes named after women kill more people?

[364] Oh no. Because they don't take them seriously.

[365] People don't take them seriously when they're named after women.

[366] Anyway, she's close with her aunt and uncle.

[367] She invited them to stay with them.

[368] So Michelle's mother, who was Terry, the aunt's sister, called one of Michelle's friends and was like, can you go check on her?

[369] So the friend finds their mail overflowing, newspapers from days earlier on the lawn.

[370] No one's answering the door when she knocks.

[371] The door's locked.

[372] She walks around to the garage, sees lights on through the windows.

[373] There's cars parked in the driveway, so she calls the cops.

[374] They arrive.

[375] They enter the home and quickly run back out and vomit in the yard, horrified by what they had found inside.

[376] So inside, reclining on the couch is the body of Michelle's aunt, Charlie's wife, Aunt Terry.

[377] She's been stabbed seven times in the chest and then her clothes had been removed but she hadn't been sexually assaulted.

[378] In the bedroom is Michelle's body.

[379] She'd been stabbed only once.

[380] But then she had been disemboweled, her heart and organs had been removed, and she had also been decapitated, and her head was sitting next to her body.

[381] I can't believe you didn't lead with that part.

[382] There's a lot.

[383] She's walking us through the house.

[384] We're going room.

[385] We're going room.

[386] Karen was like, should we warn people about the murders first?

[387] And I was like, don't worry.

[388] Mine's way fucking worse.

[389] So we should warn this.

[390] So her head's next to her body.

[391] The weapons that have been used in the crime were the knives from her own.

[392] kitchen.

[393] Then in the garage, Uncle Charlie, we find in a state of decomposition because of the heat, Uncle Charlie's body is hanging from his neck by a sheet from the rafters.

[394] He's dead, and then the investigators determine that it was a suicide.

[395] So there's no...

[396] Like it?

[397] Right?

[398] I mean, there's no suicide note, and there's no way of knowing exactly what happened, but because of the lack of a break -in or any other explanation, they can include that Charlie was the murderer and it had been a murder suicide.

[399] So Uncle Charlie, I'm going to call him that because it's easier to remember him.

[400] He's described by all as a mild -mannered, loving husband, all -around good guy.

[401] Aren't they all?

[402] Aren't they always called that?

[403] But he was known as being a bit of an oddball and eccentric, but by all accounts, including Aunt Terry's best friend, Charlie loved her very deeply and the couple was inseparable.

[404] No one ever detected any problems or saw a fight in the relationship.

[405] or at anyone's temper.

[406] In fact, here's something annoying.

[407] They would make each other's lunches every morning because they said that food made by someone you love tastes better than when you make it yourself.

[408] Which can you imagine that couple?

[409] And you're like, can you guys shut the fuck up and just like eat your lunch?

[410] It sounds like a great way to make someone, like make your food for you.

[411] Exactly right.

[412] I want a peanut butter and jelly, but I love the way it tastes when you make it.

[413] It's so much better when you do it, all the chores.

[414] When you unfreeze my chicken nuggets.

[415] when the investigators began to look into the murder suicide uncle charlie's older sister angela is like hold up i got to tell you guys something this has been a secret uh family secret for 30 years here we go yep 1971 uncle charlie is just 13 his father had recently killed his dog during a hunting trip with charlie the dad says he did it on accident but he had shot the dog twice, and also Uncle Charlie has some difficulty with school assignments, struggling to maintain his grades, but he was reportedly a really bright kid.

[416] So on the evening of January 3rd, 1971, while his dad, so his dad's in the bathroom shaving, his mother, who's eight months pregnant, is soaking in the bathtub.

[417] Charlie gets up from his homework randomly, grabs a nine millimeter handgun from his father's nightstand, goes into the bathroom, and shoots his father in the back.

[418] Then he walks to his mother, who's in the bathtub.

[419] She says, no, Charlie, no, but he fires at her until there's no more bullets left.

[420] This is really fucked up.

[421] I should have started with that.

[422] I'm sorry.

[423] That this is it.

[424] It's it.

[425] After everything else it's up.

[426] Is this more or less fucked up than most of your murders that you do on your shows?

[427] It's exactly the same.

[428] Yeah.

[429] It's pretty right on.

[430] Yeah.

[431] Next, he goes to his 15 -year -old sister, Angela's room.

[432] Angela's the one telling the cops about this case.

[433] He goes to her room, points the gun at her, and tries to fire.

[434] He didn't even know that the gun was empty.

[435] And she said that he looked like he was in a trance.

[436] So he might not even have been aware that this was, like, going on.

[437] And his gun was empty.

[438] They start to wrestle.

[439] Angela tries to talk Charlie down.

[440] She tells him that she loves him and we run away with him.

[441] But as soon as she gets a chance, she runs to a neighbor's house screaming for help.

[442] Charlie's mom dies, but his father survives.

[443] And from the hospital bed says he has no idea why his son would ever commit such an act.

[444] When Charlie's evaluated by psychologists, they see no signs of a diagnosable mental illness.

[445] They can't pinpoint a motive for the shooting at all.

[446] By all accounts, he's like, I loved my family.

[447] I have no idea why I did this.

[448] So they said they weren't going to prosecute him because of that and his age, because he's not responsible for his actions, but instead they send him to a psychiatric clinic.

[449] His father visits him very often, and after a year, his dad is able to have him released to his custody, and the whole family moves to Florida to get away from the town's scrutiny.

[450] And the murder of his mother is not spoken of, again, to the point where his two younger sisters who were super young when the mom was murdered didn't even know about it.

[451] They thought their mom had died in a car accident until the murder suicide when Angela told the cops they didn't know a thing.

[452] Charlie gets excellent grades in school.

[453] He becomes a radar technician engineer.

[454] He finds the note from the BTK killer in the library.

[455] That was his favorite book.

[456] Referencing the old episode.

[457] Oh shit, I forgot that.

[458] It's a week later.

[459] Angela, his sister marries a dude named Jim, finds out about the brother Charlie murdering their mom, still becomes good friends with him.

[460] So once Jim, his brother -in -law and Angela, getting a divorce, on the topic of revenge, Uncle Charlie says, well, you know, the perfect revenge is you kill someone and you cut their heart out and then you eat it.

[461] That's the perfect revenge.

[462] But Jim, despite that, sets Uncle Charlie up with a friend of his new girlfriend.

[463] This friend is Aunt Terry after six months they get married.

[464] Can you imagine setting your fucking friend up with someone who said that?

[465] no no that's the correct answer um no um absolutely absolutely not um let's see then they're we don't know if terry knew or not about the murder of the mother um and okay so let's go back to 2004 post murder suicide the police find out about the fucked up stuff from charlie's past they begin to take a closer look at the murders of his wife and niece so can i really quick ask a question always I just don't understand as a kid he kills his own mother tries to kill his father and a sister and his sister but the sister lives yeah so then he just goes to a psychiatric hospital for a little while and then they're just like business as usual yeah less than business as usual like hiding stuff and the dad is like the way that this is speculation that could get me sued can I do this of course if I preemptively we have a lawyer in the room he must have been some shit must have been going on in that household that his dad was like nope I want my kid out of there everything's fine you know what I mean wink wink nudge molestation wait will you spell it out for me again she said the actual word I think that's wink this the word was wink uh he winked at his son a lot he nudged his kid a little too much too much too much winking and nudging I don't know man. It just seems a little too.

[466] So you think the dog thing was almost just like the straw that broke the camel's back, but really he was being molested.

[467] Yeah.

[468] And that's why the father wouldn't turn him in because that all would come out.

[469] Yeah.

[470] And then we have that thing about like if someone's molesting, if a, you know, like killing the mother as well is always like a really weird thing.

[471] Because if you have an issue with your dad, why would you, you know, the mother would never step in, that kind of thing.

[472] Speculation, your honor.

[473] Do you know what I mean?

[474] Mm -hmm.

[475] Okay.

[476] please approach the bench um all right okay so they begin to take a closer look they note that the amputations inflicted on michelle the niece were not amateur but were accomplished with skill and experience they searched the couple's house the couple's house is still boarded up from the hurricane um and they find a bunch of fucked up stuff they find the bedroom door so bedroom doors open I never close my bedroom door.

[477] When they open it on the back of the bedroom door is a really creepy illustration poster of the female muscular and skeletal system.

[478] And she was like a bun on her head and it's like a cartoon drawing.

[479] It's like so creepy.

[480] It's not just a skeleton.

[481] It's like a female skeleton with a face.

[482] And muscles.

[483] So it's like one of those weird, you know that weird?

[484] Oh, were you like a pop -up book kind of thing?

[485] Well, no, I was thinking of there was actually an art installation of a guy that was like, remember the thing?

[486] And I was just like, that person is a serial killer that made this.

[487] Who would want to go and, like, show what people look like with no skin?

[488] Like, embalming someone.

[489] Right.

[490] And then putting it up as art. But really just skinning them anyway.

[491] I got nauseous at that art installation, quote, unquote, and had to leave.

[492] It was so disturbing.

[493] Of that one of, like, the human body.

[494] The human anatomy.

[495] Bodies.

[496] Yeah.

[497] I saw it in New York.

[498] And I don't have too many regrets in life.

[499] I mean, I should.

[500] I should have more.

[501] But that one.

[502] is one of my regrets.

[503] Yeah, considering how much I can read and watch and I look at crime scene photos and shit, like that was really fucking, they still had like hair.

[504] Well, and there was all this, like, these ethical issues of how the bodies were retrieved.

[505] Who were they?

[506] Yeah, yeah, and apparently whatever.

[507] And it would do it.

[508] It's so weird.

[509] And who would go to it?

[510] Like, we don't need to know that.

[511] Well, apparently Charlie did.

[512] So, and also despite not being in the medical profession, of course, there were books on human, anatomy in a bookshelf and um one of them contained a newspaper clipping of a labeled illustration of the human heart he also subscribed here's what's fucking creepy to victoria's secret magazine and it was like or catalog it was like in his name that was to his wife and his nickname for his niece michelle who he killed was victoria secret he called her which is like don't it's not a nickname it says it's not shorter than her name yeah it takes longer yeah No, it's not even closed.

[513] They checked out his computer.

[514] There was a bunch of erotic websites related to sacrifice violence, necrophilia, containing photos of torture, rape, and violent deaths.

[515] Depicting female autopsies, they're all staged.

[516] Don't worry.

[517] Living models made to look dead.

[518] And they came to the conclusion that Charlie was obsessed with his niece, Michelle, had premeditated and had premeditated the murders, and that he was also obsessed with human anatomy, especially the female humanity, due to what they found in his house, as well as the observation that the murder of his wife and niece seemed to be the work of a skilled and practiced killer, police began to look into previously unsolved cold cases in the area.

[519] And also in the areas where he would travel for work, which he did a lot, because I guess engineers travel for work a lot.

[520] Train engineers.

[521] Come on.

[522] Toot, toot.

[523] What's the, you know.

[524] they sent out a description of the ammo disembowel decapitated clean cuts surgical precision and they quickly got a ton of hits from other police stations so his ties to an additional murder were uncovered by not investigators but by the producers of the show 48 hours which is like fuck yeah there's a really good episode of this on 48 hours they passed along the information of the authorities So in July 1989 of Big Pine Key, Florida, two fishermen found the body of Sherry Parisho.

[525] She was 38.

[526] She lived in a small boat and had been seen riding her bike earlier that day.

[527] She'd been in the water dead no longer than 12 hours, and the site her body was found at was a thousand feet away from Charlie Brant's Big Pine Key house, a thousand feet away.

[528] Her head had been severed and her heart had been removed.

[529] and Charlie resembled the sketch of a man seen crossing the U .S. 1 nearby on the night of the murder.

[530] And Jim, the fucking dude who set them up, who had set them up, said Terry told him that Charlie came home that night, wet and covered with blood around the time Sherry was killed, and she was like, what the fuck?

[531] And he was like, I was fishing and I killed some fish.

[532] And then in November 1995, along the Miami -Dade County Highway that Charlie would have had to use to get in and out of the keys, the mutilated body of Darlene Toller, she was 35, she was discovered in a plastic bag, and her head and heart were missing as well.

[533] So since then, 26 murders going back as far as 1973, which is when his dad checked him out of the insane asylum and took him to Florida.

[534] that so that means he was 15 years old they have had possible links to charlie but six murders have been positively identified and ascribed to charlie so charlie rant the fucking serial killer that i had never heard of a possibility of 26 murders going back from when he was 15 years old two years after he killed his fucking pregnant mother that's it the head in the heart huh The head in the heart.

[535] Fuck.

[536] I wonder if they named that band after it.

[537] I know.

[538] The head in the heart and the hunter?

[539] Oh, no, there's an actual.

[540] Yeah.

[541] Well.

[542] I've never heard of that guy.

[543] No, right?

[544] Yeah.

[545] That's crazy.

[546] Yeah.

[547] And he was like, he looks so much like my cousin.

[548] It creeps me out.

[549] Like, my cousin could play him in a movie.

[550] I also feel like that lesson of like, if somebody just gets up as a 13 -year -old and shoots a bunch of people in their family, you can pretty much assume that's not going to end there.

[551] No. And I think the psychologists were like, this is going to happen again.

[552] But his dad was like, nope, taking him into custody.

[553] Wow.

[554] It's crazy.

[555] Oh, man. And how could there not be one little thing that the psychologist found that we're like, well, here's, like, everything's fine.

[556] Nope.

[557] He just killed his parents once, but everything else is fine.

[558] That's impossible.

[559] Yeah, it does feel like, I think maybe now, I like to think that there's, like, people are much more aware of warning signs, but it's disturbing that even as recently as back in the 90s, like the warning signs are like, well, well, you know, people get better, I suppose.

[560] Let's have a positive attitude about this guy.

[561] Once he has his own apartment and he'll be fine.

[562] Great.

[563] Well, thank you for your latest favorite murder.

[564] There's no real way to transition to it.

[565] call from this.

[566] Believe me. How do we do?

[567] Our shows are so different.

[568] Should we talk about our size?

[569] So different.

[570] I'm a tourist.

[571] My son is stop.

[572] I'm a Gemini.

[573] I'm a Gemini.

[574] I'm a Saj.

[575] Oh, my God.

[576] I have no idea what the fuck's in is.

[577] Nor do I want to.

[578] I don't either.

[579] I have no idea.

[580] You know I'm a Gemini.

[581] Are you?

[582] Oh, we're so much fun.

[583] Because we're fucking bachelor.

[584] I saw, I actually saw a thing and I had a list of like the most well -known serial killer and most of them are Gemini's.

[585] It's Gemini or Virgo.

[586] Bergo.

[587] Gemini men are specifically, or particularly crazy.

[588] Gemini girls are just fun drunks.

[589] No. I love you.

[590] All right.

[591] Because I'm the, when someone says that to you, it's because you're crazy.

[592] Because you're a great person.

[593] I mean.

[594] Are we ready to call Leah?

[595] Leah.

[596] Let's call Leah.

[597] She's in Ohio and she's 28.

[598] Aren't we all?

[599] Do you see, aren't we all?

[600] Hello?

[601] Hey, Leah.

[602] How are you?

[603] It's Sim.

[604] It's for you.

[605] I'm going to introduce you to Anna right now.

[606] Hi, Leah.

[607] Thank you so much for, you know, being with us here tonight.

[608] So, Anna, can you introduce our special guests?

[609] We have Karen and Georgia from my favorite murder, which is an awesome fucking podcast.

[610] Hi.

[611] Hi.

[612] Hi.

[613] It is.

[614] Hi, Leah.

[615] Leah?

[616] Leah, you wrote us, you wrote us asking if it's okay to hook up with your cheating friend's ex -husband.

[617] Tell us your story.

[618] Your story is kind of, yeah, this is interesting.

[619] This is fun.

[620] Start from the beginning.

[621] Okay, so two years ago, I was training a new girl at the place where I worked then, and her name was Janie, and she had just moved to Ohio, and she had moved to be with her fiance.

[622] And we found out that her fiance was actually one of my old friends from high school.

[623] So Jamie and I, we became really close.

[624] I mean, we were doing everything together immediately.

[625] We just got along so well.

[626] And so it was really fun.

[627] It was so fun to hang out with her and her fiance because, you know, we had a past history too.

[628] Dustin, her fiancé, they started to have some problems.

[629] And I was the first person to give them advice about them.

[630] We kind of lost touch, Janie and I did.

[631] when I started a new job that was kind of farther away.

[632] But I would stop in every once in a while to my old job and just see her and see how she was doing.

[633] I stopped in and she told me that her and Dustin were getting a divorce and I told her, you know, whatever I can do to help.

[634] So the next time that I stopped in, she was there and she looked kind of nervous and it was a boyfriend that she met while she and Dustin were married.

[635] They were together.

[636] She had told me then that she had cheated on Dustin.

[637] She had cheated with two different guys and starting three months into their marriage.

[638] They got divorced about a year later.

[639] So Dustin had gotten a hold of me because I was going through some stuff, and he was going through some stuff, and we ended up starting to hook up.

[640] And I've been so torn about it because I want to be a good friend, and I guess I've never been in a situation like this before.

[641] So it's all kind of weird.

[642] Eventually, I thought, you know, I have to at least ask her if we can be friends.

[643] And so I did, and she actually, she hasn't talked to me since.

[644] She was so mad at me for even asking.

[645] Sorry, if you could be friends with Dustin.

[646] Exactly, right.

[647] Yeah, if it was okay for Dustin and I to be friends, yes, yeah, to hang out.

[648] She got really mad, yeah, and we haven't talked since.

[649] So I guess that's kind of where I'm at is number one.

[650] I don't know, is it okay for Dustin and I to be friends?

[651] hooking up.

[652] It's the best sex that I've ever had in my life.

[653] It's so nice to me. I mean, like, selfishly, that's, I, yeah, I can't, yeah.

[654] Honey.

[655] So there's that.

[656] I ever, ever do.

[657] I would never hook up with a friend's ex in different circumstances ever.

[658] I think we don't even, you know, should I tell her, I guess.

[659] We've got some answers for you.

[660] Yeah, we have them out already.

[661] There's such a sweet heart.

[662] You're not a bad person.

[663] No. And, you know what, a dude would never.

[664] be asking these questions.

[665] No fucking way.

[666] And women, we beat ourselves up so fucking much.

[667] Look, here's the thing.

[668] She cheated on him.

[669] It didn't even matter what she did because you already had a relationship with him.

[670] You already knew him before.

[671] So she was actually the new friend.

[672] And then she got rid of him.

[673] So that's like you, it doesn't matter what happens after that because if that relationship ends, you get to do whatever you want.

[674] And her being mad at you, after she cheated on him and then has someone else in her life to even want to be friends with him that is insane I think you're going by her rules and you're kind of like taking her framework of the situation then going is this okay because she said it isn't it's absolutely fucking lootly okay and it doesn't sound like someone that I would really want to be friends with anyways so you checking in with her and it's so sweet and generous but not necessary you don't you don't owe her anything and you know you guys are you're not going to get married maybe but you're getting your fucking sexual healing and like it has nothing to do with her in any way and cheating on someone's three months into a wedding you know that's probably not the marriage it's not the first time she did that probably it wasn't it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what she does it doesn't matter it's so true because it sounds like you know you might not value her friendship as much as you do like other friendships or relationships and life is fucking short and I don't I don't think you owe her anything I mean in this situation it's I think it's interesting the the idea that she they broke up I mean that was over right so it's not she wasn't she didn't get this girl didn't get cheated on by the guy that you're hooking up with so the idea that she's mad at you when she is absolutely not the victim in this situation she went and did exactly what she wanted so why don't you get to because you should get to and if you want to get together with that guy you should get to you get to know your fucking body with a man that you did who's nice to you and I think that you've happened so far I think that you wouldn't have called and asked this if you didn't know somewhere in your mind that something was really off about this and you should and I did yeah I felt like it was But I was surprised the few people that I kind of ran it by, I got really mixed answers.

[675] And I think that's what made me so confused about it.

[676] Well, people are answering based on their own history, not on the situation.

[677] Yeah, that's what everybody does.

[678] If any of my girlfriends who I cared about and loved wanted to hook up with my exes who are good people, I would be so happy for them.

[679] Me too.

[680] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[681] I would too.

[682] Yeah.

[683] I think that's adult reactions.

[684] So she might be having more of a high school weird.

[685] reaction.

[686] It's like when you get an awesome pair of boots and your friend is like, I really like this boots, would it be okay if I also bought those?

[687] And some people would be like, no, he's a mind.

[688] And other people are like, fuck yeah, I'm so glad you like these boots.

[689] They're so comfortable.

[690] Your feet are going to feel amazing.

[691] Yeah.

[692] And you celebrate the idea like, oh.

[693] But it's also the thing.

[694] I think it's also the thing of the, it's weird to think.

[695] It's weird to think.

[696] that you can make friends with say a narcissist it's weird to think that you could have a good time and have a good relationship with a person who's actually deep down incredibly selfish or incredibly self -serving so I think you you're having doubts because the two of you hit it off and had a good time but maybe a lot of the reason you had such a good time with her is because the boyfriend was there who you really liked and maybe have liked for a long time he evened it out the fact that she fucking kind of sucked that's hilarious yeah we had a lot of fun all together and I didn't I mean she and I got got really close in a different way um but yeah I I never even thought about that before you're not a bad person just like you know we've been telling you but um we have been talking about bad people but yeah you are not one of them you're nowhere near it no and the fact that even you even question if you're a bad person or not based on this I think proves to us that you're not you're a wonderful person yeah and no yeah yeah like enjoy yourself I don't know.

[697] Life is short.

[698] I don't think you have to, like, I would encourage you to distance yourself.

[699] I mean, you already have already from the friend, the gal.

[700] But also, you know, I don't know how much social media has to play in all of this.

[701] But I would also encourage, like, easing up on any of that because that always gets anybody into trouble.

[702] But I would just like, yeah, have, I don't know.

[703] I don't know.

[704] You're in your 20.

[705] 20s.

[706] Yep, get your nut.

[707] Get yours.

[708] Yeah.

[709] Well, Leah, I think this is pretty obvious here at this point.

[710] Leah, are you okay with this?

[711] Yeah, I am.

[712] I mean, thank you.

[713] Yeah, I do.

[714] I feel it a lot better.

[715] Yeah.

[716] Hey, Leah, thank you.

[717] Hey, we love you.

[718] Thank you.

[719] Thank you so much.

[720] I love you too.

[721] Bye.

[722] Bye.

[723] Bye.

[724] We love you.

[725] You love you.

[726] Can you say get late?

[727] Yeah.

[728] Bye.

[729] All right.

[730] This is, we're coming to the end here.

[731] I guess Sims doing the thing.

[732] Yeah.

[733] Wow, that's it.

[734] That's the wrap it up finger.

[735] He's giving us the finger.

[736] Yeah.

[737] This was amazing guys.

[738] You guys, thank you so much.

[739] Oh my God.

[740] It was so fun.

[741] Thanks for being in my creepy house in the creepy room talking about incredibly creepy things.

[742] It's such a creepy thing.

[743] And you gave amazing advice.

[744] This is a lot of fun.

[745] I mean, let's do this once a year if we can.

[746] you want to totally for sure once a week or once a year we're going to be here next week we're going to do it once a week perfect sounds good um anything do you want to tell people to follow you anywhere or anything i don't know sim is always telling me to do this part i don't know i don't know i'm not really i stopped doing it yeah we have like social media on instagram and stuff i'm sure you guys have it too follow stephen right okay your producer stephen ray morris our twitter is my fave murder some time i can't find it because i don't know i like that's the while i made it i don't remember why we are are at unqualified.

[747] I guess we're, because we're promoting on your show as well.

[748] Oh, yeah.

[749] Oh, where can everyone find you guys?

[750] They can find us.

[751] Yeah, unqualified, subscribe, leave a review.

[752] Thank you, thank you so much.

[753] Thank you.

[754] So much.

[755] Anna, stay sexy.

[756] Oh, no. Go on.

[757] And don't get murdered.

[758] That's how we always end.

[759] Now you go yours.

[760] I always say, fuck you, Sim.

[761] Oh, fuck you, Sim.

[762] Don't get murdered.

[763] Good night, everyone.

[764] Good night.

[765] We love you, listeners.