Armchair Anonymous: Scams

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[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchaired Anonymous.

[4] We're still on the fence of whether it's armchair anonymous or armchared anonymous.

[5] Oh.

[6] We definitely spell it armchair.

[7] I think it's armchair anonymous.

[8] It is.

[9] It sounds like you're saying armchair anonymous.

[10] Well, yeah, but that's just a mistake.

[11] Yeah.

[12] It's like attic.

[13] It was a way of me telling you, you made a mistake.

[14] It was so fun, you put it out there, like maybe that, maybe we should go with that.

[15] That was so kind.

[16] Thank you.

[17] I'm not triggered at all or defensive.

[18] Good.

[19] Okay, good.

[20] Yeah.

[21] At this point, you know, I just mangle a lot of words.

[22] It's fine.

[23] We all do.

[24] I'm not even defensive anymore.

[25] You're saying a lot of words.

[26] So, you know, your percentage.

[27] I can only spell like 12 % of the words I say.

[28] And then I can only pronounce like 75 % of the ones I know.

[29] It's pretty good.

[30] It's weird.

[31] That reminds me. what a trigger that is for me. When someone gives himself a compliment and then they say, isn't that, that's weird?

[32] They try to mitigate it.

[33] Like, I always score touchdowns.

[34] It's so weird.

[35] You know what I'm saying?

[36] It's a humble braggy.

[37] It's a humble braggy.

[38] It's so weird.

[39] And I just kind of did that.

[40] I was like, I know so many words I can't pronounce her a spell.

[41] It's so weird.

[42] I was just saying I know a lot of words.

[43] What a piece of shit.

[44] Okay.

[45] This is where fellow piece of shit come to air it out and learn that, you know what?

[46] We're all.

[47] We're all just POS.

[48] Yay, the diggles.

[49] Okay.

[50] Okay, today's episode, the prompt was, have you ever been scanned?

[51] Yeah.

[52] This gets juicy because it's hard to come forward because it can feel a little humiliating.

[53] It's, I would argue it's way more humiliating than like a poop your pants story.

[54] Which, by the way, when are we going to get to a poop your pants?

[55] Next month.

[56] Well, prompts are out there.

[57] They're already out there for July.

[58] But for August, maybe we'll add a poop your pants.

[59] People in the comments, please let us know.

[60] I'd argue for like once a month we need a poop.

[61] It's not like we should do one poop your pants.

[62] There's a million brilliant poop your pants I think we can do multiple poop your pants I don't think we need to do every month okay Well could they just be maybe they'll be specific Like you ever poop your pants you lost your job Ever poop your pants you crush your car Ever poop your pants you won the lottery You could just do like a poop in like once a month We'll have a poop story pop in Yeah I think people like it Monica Also these were of course so fun We've yet to not enjoy every single time we reach out and chat with some chairs.

[63] Talk it to our cherries.

[64] Some chair chairs.

[65] What do I?

[66] Some chaired.

[67] What do I add?

[68] So I guess my thing is I add S's or E .D. Now, that's a new one.

[69] Okay.

[70] Please enjoy this episode of Armchair Anonymous.

[71] Hard times.

[72] Come and go.

[73] Take them slow.

[74] You got to know.

[75] I'm going to keep on shiny.

[76] Hi, Ben.

[77] How you doing?

[78] Doing great.

[79] Okay, we love this.

[80] because you said, hey, y 'all, and you're wearing a Detroit shirt.

[81] So you're mixing both of us together.

[82] Cover my bases here, yeah.

[83] Originally from Michigan, so I thought it was appropriate.

[84] Love it.

[85] Oh, wonderful.

[86] Are you in the South now, though?

[87] No, I'm in Minneapolis.

[88] I'm just a y 'all person.

[89] Okay, good for you.

[90] Okay, I got to start by saying, I'm blown away with anyone that responded to the scam prompt because half the reason scams go unreported is everyone's kind of embarrassed that it happened to them.

[91] It takes bravery to talk about it.

[92] Yeah, and this one's a juicy one because it was a bit innovative, I thought.

[93] And I usually am not the kind of person that falls for this stuff, but they had a good strategy and it got me. Oh my gosh.

[94] Please tell us.

[95] What year was this?

[96] Where did this happen?

[97] This was summer of 2016 in downtown Detroit, actually.

[98] I was teaching creative writing workshop for high school students at the time.

[99] And we had a Saturday morning workshop at the Detroit Public Library right there across from the DIA Institute of Art. And I'm sitting there waiting for my kids to show up and I get an unlisted call, which I normally never answer.

[100] But, you know, I've been late for the bus or something like that, and I just wanted to be available to them.

[101] So I pick it up, and immediately I hear this sort of disgruntled voice on the other end, who starts hitting me with all these really intense questions about, are you related to so -and -so, and since my mom's full name?

[102] And so immediately, I'm just like, hold on.

[103] Are you trying to get a hold of her?

[104] What's the situation?

[105] And they start adding on more little context clues saying, I'm with her on this street, on Stadium Boulevard, in Ann Arbor, where she lived, and does she drive this kind of car?

[106] So I'm like, yeah, is something wrong?

[107] what's not, you know, I'm concerned she's in a car accident or something immediately.

[108] Of course.

[109] Yeah.

[110] There's clearly chaos going on in the background too.

[111] So it's just a little jarring.

[112] I didn't know how to respond to it.

[113] But eventually they finally come to say, no, here's what happened.

[114] Your mom was driving down the street and hit my son, my little child in the street.

[115] And now my son is an emergency surgery at the hospital.

[116] Oh my God.

[117] We confronted your mom about it when it happened.

[118] And she tried to leave.

[119] She tried to flee the scene in her car.

[120] And so we chased.

[121] her down and we have her and we're holding her for ransom.

[122] Oh, my God.

[123] My immediate instinct is to call bullshit on this because if something like that happened, my mom would be in the street trying to resuscitate the kid.

[124] You know, that's the last thing she would ever do is.

[125] She's not a hit and runner by nature.

[126] I wouldn't describe it as such.

[127] It's not her brand.

[128] And so on the call, I try to call bullshit on it and say, I don't believe you.

[129] I'm going to hang up and call her just to confirm.

[130] And then the guy starts getting a little bit more.

[131] more aggressive.

[132] And he says, no, no, you don't understand.

[133] We have her right now.

[134] And I can hear this and you're scuffling going on in the background.

[135] And if you don't pay us right now, we're going to kill her.

[136] Oh my God.

[137] Were you like, let me hear her.

[138] So I was like, yeah, put her on the phone then, put her on the phone then.

[139] And sure enough, what I hear on the phone is my mom's voice, honest to God, saying, Ben, just do whatever they say, please.

[140] No. That's all she says.

[141] And then they said, yeah, you heard us.

[142] You heard us.

[143] Right.

[144] Like, we're not playing around.

[145] And so my heart sinks immediately.

[146] meanwhile, my students are starting to walk in.

[147] This is like five minutes before my thing.

[148] It's the worst time for this scam to happen.

[149] I had to point to the phone and be like, family emergency, classes canceled.

[150] But meanwhile, I'm like trying to not freak out or let anyone on.

[151] And so I was like, okay, what do you need me to do?

[152] How do I get her back?

[153] And they're like, we need you to get in your car right now.

[154] Don't talk to anybody.

[155] Drive to this very specific proger grocery store in Dearborn, which was about 10, 15 minutes away from where I was.

[156] On Michigan Avenue?

[157] Yep, that's the one.

[158] And then they said, we'll give you your next.

[159] instructions when you're there.

[160] But don't hang up the phone.

[161] If you hang up the phone, we'll kill her.

[162] And I already heard her voice at this time.

[163] They're starting to get more aggressive.

[164] Oh, my God.

[165] Starting to cuss at me. But I only heard that one snippet for my mom, right?

[166] Trying to sort of wrestle with them a little bit.

[167] Then I hear my mom again on the phone saying, please be careful.

[168] It's her voice.

[169] There's no doubting.

[170] It's her voice.

[171] Oh, my God.

[172] I tunnel vision drive, speed all the way to the program.

[173] And I'm on the phone the whole time, which is important also because it was 2016.

[174] And you couldn't text while you were in a call at the or at least my phone couldn't.

[175] Right.

[176] Normally I would try to corroborate the story in some way, but they were really adamant about it.

[177] You hang up.

[178] This is over.

[179] So I get to the Kroger.

[180] I say, okay, I'm here.

[181] I'm parking for the Kroger.

[182] What do you want to do?

[183] And they said, we want you to go inside Western Union us, all the money that you have, which was not the time at the time.

[184] It was a couple hundred bucks probably in my bank account.

[185] You're a creative writing teacher doing the Lord's work.

[186] Give us all $65.

[187] Right.

[188] That was what it was.

[189] I was bartering with them.

[190] They said, give us $1 ,000.

[191] I said, how about $3 .25?

[192] I very calmly go into the Kroger.

[193] They gave me this PL box in Puerto Rico and I Western Union all this money that I had to that PL box.

[194] And no one really bats an eye.

[195] I tried to keep my cool.

[196] I didn't want to blow my cover.

[197] I'm on the phone the whole time too.

[198] Yeah.

[199] And so I say, okay, it's done.

[200] I go back in my car and I can hear them ruffling around on their end.

[201] And then I think trying to confirm that the check went through.

[202] And once they're like, okay, it's cleared.

[203] Then their story starts to unravel a little bit more because then they say, okay, the money cleared, we'll bring you your mom, stay where you are.

[204] Don't hang the phone.

[205] We still have her.

[206] She's in the band.

[207] We'll come drop her off with you now.

[208] And 10 minutes goes by, 15 minutes goes by.

[209] They handed me off to like the little brother of the group.

[210] It was just like, they're coming.

[211] Don't worry.

[212] They're coming.

[213] Hold on.

[214] Now, wow.

[215] My first fear that was triggers like that my mom would be in danger.

[216] That's horrifying.

[217] Your adrenaline's up.

[218] You're thinking with your midbrain.

[219] Everything's a disaster.

[220] But now an awkward hold with a stranger.

[221] That's its own cruelty.

[222] It was such a tell that the whole thing ultimately was a scam.

[223] too, because this guy, I don't think, was briefed on the whole game plan on their end.

[224] So he was starting to give little details and comments that didn't line up with the previous stories.

[225] 10 minutes becomes 20, becomes 30.

[226] Finally, I'm like, you guys, what is going on?

[227] You said you're five minutes away.

[228] Finally, I just sort of get the gumption to say, you know what?

[229] I got to hang up and make a move on this.

[230] Before I do that, though, I thought this was clever at the time.

[231] I'm in my car and I pulled up near a little coffee shop that is there.

[232] And I try to steal their Wi -Fi and see if I could email somebody to get through it.

[233] but that wasn't working.

[234] There was just too much going on at once to really have a clear head, obviously.

[235] Yeah, of course.

[236] Again, you're scared.

[237] Your adrenaline's high.

[238] Your heart rates up.

[239] And so finally I say, fuck it.

[240] I hang up the call and immediately call my mom's cell phone.

[241] And she answers the phone, just cheery, like nothing's wrong.

[242] And I say, Mom, I've been on a hostage call for six hours.

[243] Oh, my God.

[244] They've gone to like 10 a .m. to 3, 4, 5 in the evening at that point.

[245] Oh, my God.

[246] And I've been in this call the whole time.

[247] And she's like, oh, are you talking about the extortion?

[248] thing.

[249] They got me too.

[250] I said, what are you talking about?

[251] Oh.

[252] And so what had happened in hindsight was they had simultaneous calls going on with me and my mom and whatever information they got, they had enough to make it believable.

[253] And they were feeding us specific prompts to say things.

[254] So they would say, hey, tell your mom just to calm down and be still.

[255] And I would say, mom, just calm down, be still.

[256] And then they would take that snippet and say, we've got your son held hostage.

[257] Mom, just do what they say, be still or whatever.

[258] And so they were doing the two -way street.

[259] Oh my God.

[260] I hate to compare it to this, but it's like on Howard Stern when they have the two different restaurants call each other.

[261] 100%.

[262] Oh, my gosh.

[263] So you guys were actually talking to each other in those moments, weirdly.

[264] Just in these strange ransom note moments.

[265] And ultimately, they had gotten my mom for, I think, $1 ,200 or something like that.

[266] So all told, I think they got us for about $2 ,000.

[267] And the police were like, yeah, there's nothing we can do about that.

[268] But the running joke now is that every scammer in the world has my mom on speed dial.

[269] They added her to a database.

[270] Exactly.

[271] That's good, but I immediately wanted to share the story because I thought it was ingenious.

[272] Honestly, I'm there.

[273] There's some technical savvy.

[274] That's impressive.

[275] And it wasn't like a choppy job.

[276] It sounded like she had the phone to her ear and they had gun claps going off in the background, all sorts of stuff to really build the scene.

[277] Boy, you got to wonder how they stumbled upon you and your mom to begin with like a Facebook thing maybe.

[278] She was probably already on that speed dial, honestly.

[279] Okay.

[280] She falls for everything.

[281] And that's why I think at the beginning of the story, knowing that she wouldn't have done something crazy like that is because she's always just an abundance of love and nurturing and care that she's gotten scammed on that in the past.

[282] Yeah, people take advantage of that.

[283] She's trusting.

[284] It's like Monica, the gullible wasn't in the dictionary.

[285] I'm gullible, but yeah, God, what would I do?

[286] I would feel so conflicted.

[287] It was tough.

[288] And I was like visibly shaken for, I mean, I just immediately drove my mom's house.

[289] Well, by the way, whatever plan you think you have in your head right now, you then have to make your heart rate 175.

[290] Now I'm sure you have all kinds of clever things you could have done, but at that time, it's impossible.

[291] Yeah, well, and that's the thing.

[292] I've relived it in my head a million times since then.

[293] I mean, this is what, six years ago.

[294] Yeah, I want to believe that I would have the courage to be like, oh, you know, you're pulling my leg and hung up or something.

[295] But it was so sudden and so expected.

[296] Yeah, oh, my, the fact that you can hear your mom, that's the clincher.

[297] She's under the impression that I'm in danger, so she's got this very scared voice, too.

[298] Wait, so, okay, I'm kind of confused about that.

[299] So literally they're doing the two at the exact same time, the two scams.

[300] And they're recording both on a computer so they can kind of clip the audio and play it back on your end, probably.

[301] They were really specific around, tell your mom to be quiet and do what we say.

[302] Just say that exactly.

[303] Tell her to be quiet and do what we said.

[304] And then that would be the snippet that they signed.

[305] Oh, my God.

[306] I want to get it up there because it's one of those where it's just like you never know what the next thing is going to be the next hook to catch somebody off guard well Ben that was thrilling I felt like I was watching a movie there the fact that you were stuck on the phone and it was kind of like you can't go under 55 in the bus it had elements of speed speed yeah well thanks so much for responding and thanks for talking to us and telling us that story and hopefully saving someone yeah I hope you're neutering the scam by broadcasting that that would be nice I would hope that happens Well, Ben, thanks so much.

[307] Appreciate you, giving us your time and nice to meet you.

[308] You too.

[309] Take care, y 'all.

[310] Hello.

[311] Hello.

[312] It's so awesome to be able to talk to you guys in person.

[313] I feel like I've listened to so many hours of you.

[314] Nice to meet you.

[315] You were a part of a scam.

[316] I want to thank you for being willing to tell us.

[317] Tell us when and where and what happened.

[318] Okay.

[319] I was a Girl Scout growing up and obviously you sell cookies when you're a Girl Scout.

[320] And so in seventh grade, Dax's favorite year, you're trying to raise money.

[321] to go to a trip in Cape Cod.

[322] They were celebrating the 100th anniversary of Girl Scouts.

[323] And so we were outside of Walmart and we were selling cookies.

[324] And a woman came up to us and she had kind of an interesting request.

[325] She said, can I buy a box of cookies with this $20?

[326] This is my money.

[327] But then I'd also like to buy another box of cookies, but I have money from my daughter.

[328] So would it be okay if I purchased cookies with that money?

[329] And so two separate purchases, gave them change for each of those.

[330] At that point, cookies cost $4.

[331] And we gave $16 change for the first box and then $16 change for the second box.

[332] But then after that, another person came with us and they had the exact same request.

[333] So you're like, oh, interesting.

[334] There were always paying in 20s for this.

[335] Yeah, always 20s.

[336] I was in poor detail.

[337] Then always buying one box.

[338] So, yeah, we kept selling.

[339] And then we went home, my mom, who was also the leader, she went to deposit the money in the bank.

[340] The teller was counting the money.

[341] and then left to go to the back room.

[342] And I was like, hmm, something's going on here, I guess.

[343] And then she came out and she said that there was $80 of counterfeit money and that they needed to report it, basically.

[344] Oh, she caught it.

[345] Yeah, yeah.

[346] She knew that it was fake money.

[347] And so my mom was really surprised, obviously, but then thought about those two people that had that weird request because it was $420s in counterfeit money.

[348] They got $64 bucks of real cash for their $80.

[349] or fake money, investment.

[350] They didn't have to use any identification to make these purchases.

[351] It's actually really smart.

[352] I don't know how long it would last.

[353] Like, how many cookie books can you go to?

[354] But like little kids are never going to be like, this doesn't look like real money.

[355] Yeah, exactly.

[356] We handle my vote.

[357] We wouldn't know.

[358] We're like, oh, yeah, it's a 20.

[359] We're good.

[360] It's both smart.

[361] And then, of course, I always go to a place of, at the end of the day, it was 64 bucks.

[362] It took them a few trips to go there.

[363] I bet if they broke it down, I might have been $28.

[364] hour what it averaged out to and they're so clever and they're willing to break the law it's not great you know but they probably went to lots of cookie stands we might have been the only girl scouts that they targeted i don't know that seems like a strong word but like there were cases of the forgery like around what did the people look like oh dangerous i'm just curious i'm just curious i remember the first person middle -aged woman if i remember incorrectly she's like oh yeah for my daughter, which I was like, okay, a grown daughter has their own money.

[365] Yeah.

[366] I'm a dick.

[367] So I'd probably been like, you guys can't settle up at home?

[368] Like, just settle up at home.

[369] You owe your daughter four bucks.

[370] Again, like you said, it might be too strong to say targeted.

[371] And this may be too strong too.

[372] But did it at all change your worldview?

[373] Like, oh, some people are criminals.

[374] I need to be aware of that.

[375] Well, after my mom reported the money, it sort of took off in a crazy way because the police, they came to our house and had suspects.

[376] already of who they thought it was.

[377] And then I think just because it's Girl Scouts is such a crazy story and people really felt for like young girls being deceived that it starts spreading in all the newspapers, like our local paper and the Boston Globe and the Huckington Post.

[378] They all ran this stories about Girl Scouts had counterfeit money.

[379] Like who would do such a thing?

[380] Girl Scouts defrauded.

[381] Oh my God.

[382] The Globe.

[383] Isn't the Globe what took down the Catholic priests?

[384] Exactly.

[385] They're also working on the Girl Scouts.

[386] case.

[387] Well, it is the proverbial stealing candies from babies.

[388] I mean, it's as shitty of a scam as you could do as like target little girls trying to make money to go to the 100th anniversary.

[389] What shitheads.

[390] Yeah.

[391] So many people reached out to donate the money we had lost that we ended up getting a lot more donations from those strangers than we even lost to the counterfeiter.

[392] And there was a car dealership owner who was like, I'm going to buy a thousand dollars worth of cookies from you guys.

[393] So we drove down to the dealership and delivered all the cookies, took some pictures.

[394] So it ended up being like a very fun story to like share with our friends.

[395] And in my worldview, I'm like, oh, people are actually good.

[396] They wanted to write this thing.

[397] Well, you were lucky.

[398] You were unfortunate and you were lucky.

[399] Yeah, exactly.

[400] Mixed messages.

[401] We love that.

[402] I'm glad it didn't break your spirit.

[403] And I'm glad you forged ahead.

[404] Thank you so much for that story.

[405] It was kind of cute.

[406] And it was sad.

[407] And it was fun.

[408] Yeah, I love everything.

[409] It was the full gamut.

[410] It's cool that you guys are doing this as a podcast to interact with fans of the show.

[411] We love it.

[412] It's been nothing but fun.

[413] We've yet to meet a bad arm cherry.

[414] I'm sure one's coming, but thus far, it hasn't happened.

[415] So far, so good.

[416] Someone will slide us a bogus 20.

[417] It's just inevitable.

[418] You guys will be the next scam.

[419] Yeah, exactly.

[420] Well, great to meet you and good luck with everything.

[421] Take care.

[422] That owner, that car dealership.

[423] Do you know the end of that story?

[424] No, you know?

[425] Yeah, that guy drove around in a van offering little girl's Girl Scout cookies to get him in the van.

[426] Nah.

[427] Yeah.

[428] No, you're lying.

[429] No. Tacks.

[430] I'm sick.

[431] What's up, guys?

[432] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[433] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[434] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[435] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[436] And I don't mean just friends.

[437] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[438] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[439] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[440] We've all been there.

[441] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[442] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[443] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[444] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[445] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[446] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[447] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[448] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[449] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[450] You guys, this is so exciting.

[451] We're so excited.

[452] Just look at your beautiful faces.

[453] Oh, I thought the same right when your mug came up.

[454] You have a warmth.

[455] Oh, stop it.

[456] Do you use a standing desk?

[457] I do.

[458] Oh, that says so much about you.

[459] I'm technically in my wife's office, but I bought this for her for work.

[460] And I can't be at my work right now because of it.

[461] of my NDA and stuff, but I am in her office for this fantastic moment.

[462] Oh, my God.

[463] You just piqued our interest with NDA.

[464] Yeah, as soon as you said NDA, we want all of the information, obviously.

[465] We live in Santa Barbara, which I know is one of your favorite places.

[466] Yeah, my dad loves it.

[467] Okay, you guys, I was just talking to a coworker about the fact that I think we've been in his simulation because the story I'm going to tell you was like 10 years ago.

[468] And I was like, I think he was having a bad dream or something.

[469] It was maybe one of those, like, he fell back asleep and had a bad nap or something.

[470] Or maybe he didn't pay all his dues.

[471] So true.

[472] Here's what I think.

[473] His Sims about Monica, right?

[474] Because it's so rewarding to have a daughter like her.

[475] So 10 years ago, we weren't in her orbit, so we weren't taken care of.

[476] Oh.

[477] Yes.

[478] That's kind of true.

[479] Yeah, now we're players in her plot, so we're getting taken care of.

[480] Oh, my God.

[481] The rest of your life is going to be so perfect.

[482] My life started when I met you.

[483] I received.

[484] Oh, my God.

[485] So already I'm shocked you got scammed.

[486] It was kind of one of those epic level kind of scams.

[487] And when I heard on the podcast that you guys were doing this, I thought, this is really embarrassing.

[488] And yet, I feel like it is armed to expert worthies.

[489] Yes.

[490] Take us there.

[491] All right.

[492] This story begins in Fiji.

[493] We had just landed, my wife and I, 10 years ago.

[494] We flew Fijian Airways over to Byron Bay for our friend's wedding.

[495] and on the way back, they kind of have you wait for a few hours.

[496] You can extend your layover if you want.

[497] So we were like, hey, let's extend for like five days.

[498] And on the way there, I know, I know.

[499] I thought hours was coming for sure after five.

[500] All the resorts had people to kind of sell you on their resort.

[501] You know, if you wanted to extend, I guess it's part of the Finchian government's deal with the airline.

[502] You know, they want to bring people.

[503] So they're like, hey, we need you to stay on this layover and you can extend if you want for like a great deal.

[504] So we meet these two nice women who kind of sell us on this beautiful little resort with a little cabana over the ocean, that classic deck that you walk out on, the nice bed, the air conditioning, like the linens that are like blowing.

[505] Overwater bungalows, right?

[506] Yes, yes.

[507] And who doesn't dream of that, right?

[508] Yeah.

[509] So we pay all the money up front.

[510] They say, okay, so tonight you have to stay in this hotel.

[511] Tomorrow we'll have someone pick you up.

[512] They'll take you to this spot.

[513] You get on this boat.

[514] It's a two -hour boat ride.

[515] you'll get off on this island and there's a couple of different places but they'll read your name and then you go to your various resort.

[516] So we stay the first night on the main island and they pick us up and we get on this boat and the thing I knew right from the gecko was there were people getting on with backpacks who look a little bit more like, you know, you're traveling the world for a couple of months.

[517] You're willing to sleep in a hammock.

[518] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[519] A hostile vibe.

[520] Yes, Monica, yes.

[521] E -L, yeah.

[522] We're kind of like checking these people out on the boat as we're going across the ocean for two hours.

[523] And we pulled up to this little island.

[524] And to my surprise, there's a nice little resort in front of us.

[525] And we're waiting for our names to be called.

[526] And they don't call our names.

[527] Like, the rest of you, like, walk down the beach.

[528] Okay, maybe our place is nicer.

[529] So we're dragging our suitcases down the sand.

[530] And I know, it's so tragic.

[531] This sounds like Fire Island or a fire vest.

[532] Yes.

[533] So we walk up to this little, I don't even know what?

[534] to call it like a camp.

[535] And there's this larger shed, I will say.

[536] And they're welcoming people.

[537] We sit on these wooden benches.

[538] And they're saying, hey, they read our names.

[539] And I'm like, okay, we're just going to go with it.

[540] Maybe they're going to walk us out to our wonderful area.

[541] And this is just some in between something.

[542] But they're like, you need to give us all of your valuables, your passports, all of your money, everything to keep in this safe because this island isn't really safe.

[543] And because of your housing, we don't actually have locks on the doors.

[544] And I'm thinking, okay, that vibes with, like, the picture that they showed us.

[545] I'd rather see my space first because maybe we just aren't going to leave.

[546] Our food, everything is supposed to be included in this package.

[547] Oh, and they ask us if we want this punch.

[548] Oh.

[549] You guys.

[550] It's like, Isla Dr. Moreau all of a sudden.

[551] Okay.

[552] Yeah.

[553] So we're like, I don't know.

[554] We have a little bag of pretzels from the airport and our bottles of water.

[555] And we're like, we're just going to hold on to our Evian for right now.

[556] And so, yeah, we walk back.

[557] And, I mean, there is burning garbage.

[558] There's chickens running around.

[559] we're like, something's not right.

[560] And they walk us up to literally like a tin shed.

[561] And like the front part is like dilapidated.

[562] They pull up in the screen door.

[563] We walk in.

[564] And there's just a double mattress with just a fitted sheet laying on the floor.

[565] Oh.

[566] And I'm like, oh God, no. We like turn over to the side and there's an area for a bathroom that's sort of tiled.

[567] But there's just like a pipe coming out of the wall, no running water.

[568] Oh, my God.

[569] And the guy's like, okay, great.

[570] We'll see you guys in a little bit.

[571] And my wife and I look at each other, we're like, we have to get off this island.

[572] Something is really wrong.

[573] So we start walking back and I say to the guy, I'm like, hey, this is what we were sold on.

[574] This is the pamphlet.

[575] He's like, that's not here.

[576] And I'm like, yep, clearly.

[577] We agree.

[578] How do I get here?

[579] And he's like, there's one boat a day.

[580] And you were on it.

[581] And it left already.

[582] We're in the middle of the ocean, you guys.

[583] There's no cell phone reception.

[584] There's no Wi -Fi.

[585] There's nothing.

[586] So I went back to the guy and I said, hey, how much does it cost?

[587] to get a boat.

[588] He's like, there aren't people with boats.

[589] I'm like, literally just tell me what we need to pay to get off this island.

[590] So he comes back three hours later.

[591] Meanwhile, we're just sitting in the shed just like sweating to death.

[592] Oh, boy.

[593] Trying to ration our water because I'm like, if this needs to last me, I'm not eating a single thing here.

[594] And people just look off.

[595] There's just something not right about literally everyone that we're seeing kind of like lying around.

[596] And the guy comes back and he says, I have a boat for you.

[597] Bring your belongings.

[598] up to the beach.

[599] So we're like, oh my God, thank God.

[600] And you guys know the tin rowboats.

[601] Yeah, yeah.

[602] Motor on the back, literally that just four feet longer, painted blue with like a wooden bottom.

[603] And this 14 year old kid saying they're like, let's go.

[604] Oh my God.

[605] Time to cross the ocean.

[606] Yes.

[607] So we put our luggage kind of in the front of the boat.

[608] We're both just sitting on this little wooden floor in this boat.

[609] And here we go.

[610] Like across the ocean.

[611] We're thinking we have some American money.

[612] We have some Fijian money.

[613] We have some Australian dollars.

[614] We can pay this guy, but we did agree to more than we actually had.

[615] So we said, when we get back, we can go to the ATM and we'll give you more money.

[616] And it wasn't that much.

[617] I think in the exchange rate, the American dollars would have definitely sufficed for the Fijian dollars.

[618] But we are just hauling slowly across the ocean.

[619] And all of a sudden, the boat starts slowing down and slowing down.

[620] And then the motor cuts out.

[621] I look into the water and there's just floating trash everywhere.

[622] And I'm like, this is where they kill us.

[623] Yeah.

[624] And we're like kind of sizing this kid up like, we got this.

[625] We're tough.

[626] Midwest, New York.

[627] Like, we got this kid, right?

[628] Sure.

[629] And he opens up this little hatch and he like goes to reach for something.

[630] I'm like, is he going to pull a gun on us?

[631] What is about to happen?

[632] And he pulls up this little tank of gasoline and he starts siphoning it out into like the other tank.

[633] I look at my eye.

[634] I'm like, okay, we're good.

[635] We're back on track.

[636] We were back on track.

[637] We start busting across the ocean again.

[638] We finally pull up to the kind of like the same area that we got into the boat earlier that morning.

[639] And we had to get cash earlier that day out of this ATM.

[640] And so I walk up there and I'm ready to put the card in.

[641] It just doesn't work.

[642] There's no more money in it.

[643] So I come back on telling the guy.

[644] And meanwhile, my wife had taken our luggage up to the place where we were sitting earlier and is talking to this older woman.

[645] So I'm trying to negotiate with this guy.

[646] I'm like, listen, here's the money, like the exchange rate.

[647] And he's furious.

[648] You owe me. You have to come.

[649] with me and this woman and my wife Liz like come walking down and this woman just starts cussing him out and I'm like oh my god who is this woman and she's like don't worry I told him basically go fuck off and you're going to come with me and I'm like who are you she's like I'm mama you come tell mama everything oh but now you trust nobody right at this point I'm like everyone here is out to get me I'm mama come to find out mama is a native virgin what's been living with her kiwi husband in New Zealand.

[650] But she wanted to input some of their financial success back into Fiji.

[651] So she built this little bed and breakfast.

[652] And she's like, people here are so corrupt.

[653] You can't trust anybody.

[654] I've been watching people leave on that boat and not come back.

[655] Oh, my God.

[656] What?

[657] So we start telling her everything.

[658] She's like, you have to report this.

[659] Okay, first off, do you have any food or like water?

[660] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[661] You know, she makes us dinner and everything.

[662] Well, she throws us in her little minibus or whatever and drives us into what is the international police, I guess, at the airport.

[663] And we start telling these cops what's going on.

[664] And I guess per the Fijian way of conflict, you go and actually address the person who just scammed you or hurt you or wronged you.

[665] We tell them our whole thing and they walk us over to this woman.

[666] Oh my God.

[667] She was still there.

[668] She's still there.

[669] And we're literally face to face with this woman.

[670] I'm like, you were so friendly to us.

[671] You sent us to this island.

[672] Something wasn't right.

[673] Coming to find out, she's married to one of the police officers.

[674] And they're like all in this scamming ring together.

[675] So we go back to Mamas because we have four more days before we leave.

[676] Yeah.

[677] She says, you know, she'll host us and everything.

[678] And I guess they arrested her and the police officer.

[679] And then they come back to Mamas and they said, we're going to give you your money back.

[680] Well, person after person, of this ring are brought to us to start telling us.

[681] They were drugging people and stealing all their money and keeping them on this island.

[682] And people had been there for God knows how long.

[683] Oh, my God.

[684] So from the boat drivers to the guy who ran the whole circle, then these police officers were like, we'll leave people posted outside of Mamas, but like you can't leave.

[685] There are people who are literally hunting you because you just exposed.

[686] You just blew up a whole industry.

[687] Oh, my.

[688] Yes.

[689] Isn't that insane?

[690] So thank God, Mama was there and took care of us because I said to Liz, I was like, I was ready to just sleep on the floor in the airport until we could get on another flight to get out of there.

[691] But you were going to terminal it.

[692] Remember Terminal the guy who lived in the airport?

[693] Wow.

[694] Wow, wow, wow, wow.

[695] So you really just kind of were under house arrest at Mamas for the next four.

[696] Yeah.

[697] All told you're happy it went that way?

[698] Because what a story.

[699] Truth be told, I'm a little more nervous to internationally travel now.

[700] but also I'm a little wiser.

[701] God, you are lucky that that guy brought you back.

[702] I don't know if he was actually a human or some angels sent from...

[703] But I was like, there is a god.

[704] Bradley, that was incredible.

[705] I'm glad you guys made it out alive.

[706] And you busted a whole long -term scheme.

[707] Yeah, you're kind of like a Interpol agent.

[708] I mean, maybe I work for the CIA.

[709] We don't know.

[710] I mean, there is an NDA involved, and maybe you proved yourself on this and now...

[711] Maybe they got word.

[712] They got word.

[713] This motherfucker knows what to do and the shit hits the fan.

[714] He'll get off the island.

[715] Thank you so much for telling us that story.

[716] Oh, my gosh.

[717] Thanks for making this happen and allowing me to share my story.

[718] If for nothing else, it was great for this moment.

[719] To me. Oh, thank you.

[720] So fun to meet you.

[721] All right, brother, be well.

[722] Thank you for that story.

[723] Hi, Erica.

[724] Hi.

[725] You are surrounded by computers.

[726] I sure am.

[727] Are you at a college?

[728] I am.

[729] I'm at the University of Houston.

[730] Oh.

[731] Yeah, I'm a PhD student here.

[732] Brenay teaches there, yeah?

[733] That's right, yeah.

[734] We're in different departments.

[735] I've never met her, but it's cool that she's here.

[736] I got transported as soon as I saw it.

[737] I miss college so much.

[738] And when I saw your background, I was like, oh, my God, I love college.

[739] I can't stay away.

[740] Yeah.

[741] Yeah.

[742] Okay, so, Erica, you found yourself the victim of a scam.

[743] Yes.

[744] So when I wrote in, I said I'm using the term scam a little bit loosely because I don't think that it was an intentional scam to like scam me out of money.

[745] But that's what ended up happening.

[746] And a lot of other weird stuff.

[747] So I was 20.

[748] And I had a friend whose grandfather had passed away.

[749] And her grandmother came into all this money whenever he died.

[750] She wasn't close with her grandparents very much.

[751] and all of her family was not very close with her.

[752] The grandma started reaching out and was saying, like, I want to help you.

[753] I have all this money now.

[754] Maybe I can help you pursue your dreams.

[755] She wanted to go to culinary school.

[756] So the grandmother ended up offering my friend and me a place to stay to come and move to Dallas.

[757] She said, I'll let you stay here.

[758] She was going to pay for her granddaughter to go to culinary school.

[759] She was going to let me stay there for free so I could go to school in Dallas.

[760] We were like, well, this sounds pretty cool.

[761] She started giving my friend all of these gifts.

[762] She gave her a car.

[763] And then when we went up there to move there, then she gave me a car.

[764] What?

[765] It was ridiculous.

[766] Like, she made me pay for it, but it was like $2 ,000 for an almost new Mustang.

[767] Oh, my God.

[768] Oh, my God.

[769] I wish she had taken me under her wing.

[770] Well, hang out.

[771] Okay, buckle up.

[772] So she was luring you in.

[773] I guess as we were moving up there, she ended up opening up.

[774] bank accounts for both of us.

[775] And she opened up these accounts.

[776] She gave us both $10 ,000 in addition to all of these other things, like the cars and everything.

[777] You must feel like at the time, like, oh, my God, we've hit the lottery.

[778] This doesn't happen to anyone.

[779] Yeah, exactly.

[780] And so I was kind of like, I don't think I can accept all of this stuff.

[781] I was really hesitant.

[782] But she was a Christian.

[783] My parents are Christians and they're very involved in their communities.

[784] They've always given a lot to other people.

[785] They're like the best humans in the world.

[786] And so she gave me this.

[787] story.

[788] Your parents have sacrificed so much.

[789] They can't afford to pay for you to go to college.

[790] This is like God's way of giving back to them.

[791] Yeah.

[792] And it was the exact weak spot for me because I was like, once you tell me, it's not for me. It's for my parents.

[793] Yeah.

[794] I'm in.

[795] Can I ask really quickly how old this grandma was?

[796] Probably in her 70s.

[797] She wasn't like a foxy young 59 -year -old grandma.

[798] Okay, okay, okay.

[799] But it was really strange because whenever we actually moved up there, and we had all this money.

[800] I closed my other bank accounts.

[801] I merged all of my existing money into this bank account.

[802] This woman had given me. And then some weird things started to happen.

[803] She started coming into our rooms really late at night.

[804] She would come in and then she would wake us up.

[805] And she would ask us to take communion with her, which was just drinking glasses of wine.

[806] But it was like in the middle of the night.

[807] Oh, my God.

[808] This is scary.

[809] I know.

[810] It couldn't be a horror maybe.

[811] At the time, it was just bonkers.

[812] just didn't make sense.

[813] So I was starting to think maybe she's just like a little wackadoo, you know, but she's giving you all this stuff.

[814] So you just go with it.

[815] I also noticed she was coming into my room a lot, especially when I was showering.

[816] I would just hear her like come in, hang out.

[817] And then I would get out and then she would leave.

[818] I was like, okay, I'm going to get a lock from my door, just really low key.

[819] I'm an adult.

[820] She really didn't like that.

[821] And she accused me of trying to be sinful or something in my room.

[822] Like you needed some kind of privacy to do illicit, sinful, devil's workshop with a locked door, yeah.

[823] I mean, maybe it was, but it wasn't.

[824] She kept on coming into our rooms earlier and earlier to just hang out with us and do this community thing.

[825] I also forgot to mention sometimes she would just wake us up in the middle of the night to just pray.

[826] So then this one time she came into my friend's room and we were just hanging out in there.

[827] Monica, you know, whenever you're a young girl and you have friends, you just hang out on their bed.

[828] Yeah, chit -chat, hairplay and massages.

[829] Exactly.

[830] So we were just in our underwear hanging out on her bed, and then the grandmother comes in, and she freaks out.

[831] She freaks out.

[832] This is not okay.

[833] It's totally inappropriate.

[834] She orders me out, go put some clothes on.

[835] So then a few days later, we went to have a visit back in Houston where our families were in our friends.

[836] And while we were there about to head back to Dallas, my friend noticed that all the money was gone.

[837] she had over this weekend when we were gone completely drained both of our accounts like we had no idea that these accounts that she had any authority over them we were under the impression they were independent and they were not so she drains all our accounts including our existing money and so she takes everything she says we can't come back on the phone she won't even let us come back in the house she says you are just being sinners and she accuses us of being secret lesbians and And she just, like, can't have that in her house.

[838] This reminds me of so many of these stories where the person themselves is a lesbian, so they're really the most shocked by it.

[839] Like, the fact that she was coming in nonstop while you're in the shower.

[840] While you're showering.

[841] I'm sure she had her own issues about this.

[842] Yeah, as I've gotten older, that's become my interpretation.

[843] At the time, I was just like, this woman, I don't know, either she's evil or she just bonkers.

[844] Did you ever see Foxcatcher, the story of the DuPont guy who killed the wrestler?

[845] He paid for all these wrestlers to train at his house.

[846] He was rich DuPont family.

[847] He ended up murdering one of them.

[848] It's a true story.

[849] But he clearly had some, he always wanted to wrestle these guys at night and stuff.

[850] But I guarantee, yeah, if he had found them doing something he thought was that, he would have lost his mind because that was like his agenda.

[851] Yeah.

[852] We had to stay in Houston and we ended up losing all of this stuff.

[853] We had lost all of this time.

[854] My friend had already started going to culinary school there, so she had to drop out.

[855] And we had quit our jobs.

[856] Like I said, she took all of our money and took the cars back.

[857] And I started to protest and say, I mean, okay, fine.

[858] I don't need to live with you.

[859] Good riddance, but also give me my money back.

[860] Yeah.

[861] Her daughter, so my friend's aunt got involved.

[862] She was threatening us with a lawsuit that we were taking advantage of the elderly, which was apparently a huge thing.

[863] And she was like, you'll never win.

[864] You're taking all this money from her.

[865] You'll never be able to fight it.

[866] They ended up giving me like a couple hundred bucks, but it wasn't the amount that I lost.

[867] And it was all your money.

[868] All my money.

[869] And also just the fact that I had completely uprooted my life.

[870] Yeah.

[871] And kind of put my trust in this woman.

[872] And so it ended up being that for just years afterwards.

[873] I was so messed up with like trust toward other people because she said all of the things to make me feel that it was a comfortable situation and that she was going to be looking out for it.

[874] It's like finally someone's investing in you, looking out for you.

[875] And in the end, minimally, she was just off her rocker.

[876] Yeah.

[877] Okay, so I bring my baggage to this story, which is I go, yeah, anytime something's too good to be true, it always is.

[878] But, of course, I come from a lot of that experience.

[879] Like, I shouldn't have trust this person.

[880] So I know that feeling like, oh, my God, could this possibly be happening?

[881] Like, something this is fortunate.

[882] This is so wonderful.

[883] And then part of you is going like, no, this isn't, right?

[884] And yeah, now I'm like, come on, if something's too good to be true, it's too good to be true.

[885] I mean, that's also just the wise way of looking at the world that comes with time.

[886] But it's also sad because some things are amazing and you should be able to feel them fully and not be skeptical of them.

[887] Well, if I ever walk in, Monica, and you and your girlfriend are on the bed and your underwear, I'm going to try to take that car back.

[888] That's going to be my first move.

[889] Yeah, I could see you being really upset by that.

[890] I would be so upset.

[891] Yeah, I'd be disgusted.

[892] How many years ago was this?

[893] That was about 10 years ago.

[894] And have you followed it at all?

[895] Is she still with us?

[896] Did she leave all this money to someone else?

[897] Okay.

[898] I don't know exactly what she is doing now.

[899] And it's sad because my friend ended up losing all touch with her family.

[900] They all believed the grandmother.

[901] They were so mad at her and was really sad.

[902] Then she kind of slowly got back into relationship with them.

[903] And she found out that her grandmother had married some random man on the internet.

[904] that she found and was now, they were doing the whole thing again.

[905] She was giving all her money to this guy.

[906] It's definitely intentional.

[907] Definitely.

[908] There's no way.

[909] But I don't know if it's intentional that she's trying to end up scamming people out of money.

[910] Or it's just intentional in that she feels like she needs to do this being needed, taking care of other people.

[911] I guess, but why wouldn't she just give you back your money, though?

[912] My conclusion about this person is what you're saying, that she wanted to be a savior.

[913] then you guys really violated her.

[914] It's almost like borderline personality where people fall in love with someone and then they decide that person's out to get them.

[915] She was saving you.

[916] You guys were supposed to worship her and be so grateful for her and follow her rules and pray with her and do all these things.

[917] And also I think she had her own issues, the fact that she was trying to come in when you were in the shower all the time.

[918] Add that in there.

[919] That once she felt betrayed by you, she just wanted to punish and hurt you.

[920] Not that she wanted your money.

[921] She wanted to go, I was so generous and I was doing this.

[922] So now you can't have anything.

[923] I think it's like a reaction, like a punitive reaction, more than a long -term scam she was running.

[924] I think so too.

[925] And just because also she reacted so much to the locks on the doors, it was so strange.

[926] It was clearly so much of a violation of the relationship she thought she had with us.

[927] But by the way, in her story, so she's like, why would they have put locks on their door?

[928] This is crazy.

[929] And then when she sees you on your underwear, now she has an explanation.

[930] Oh, because they're doing secret stuff.

[931] Right.

[932] Sinner stuff.

[933] Oh, boy, boy, boy, boy.

[934] Wow, that's a wild one.

[935] That's pretty creepy.

[936] Ultimately, are you glad this happened to you?

[937] I mean, it's a pretty unique experience.

[938] I mean, I guess so.

[939] I kind of tend to look at life that way.

[940] In Zavara's life is just this collection of experiences.

[941] I'm kind of glad that I have this one.

[942] You have a memorable one.

[943] My fear in life would be like I can't separate one year from the last because they were all the same.

[944] I mean, I kind of stoked about the weirder things that have happened to me. So I guess in grand scheme of things, yeah, it's pretty funny.

[945] and I wasn't hurt too much by it.

[946] That's a good one.

[947] Thank you, Erica.

[948] Thank you so much for hearing my story.

[949] This is really cool.

[950] So fun.

[951] All right.

[952] Good luck with everything.

[953] Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[954] We don't have a thing song for this new show.

[955] So here I go, go.

[956] We're going to ask some random questions.

[957] And with the help of our Jerry's book, it's own suggestions.

[958] Bye a rhyme dish.

[959] I love by a rhyme dish.

[960] Enjoy.

[961] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[962] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[963] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.