Michael Peña

[0] Hello, everybody.

[1] Welcome to Armchair Expert.

[2] I'm Dan Shepard, and this is Manic Padman.

[3] Hello.

[4] Monica Radman.

[5] Today we have a buddy of mine on.

[6] He was my scene partner and ride or die brother and chips.

[7] Yeah.

[8] That's how he came to know one another.

[9] Michael Pena.

[10] He is an incredibly amazing actor.

[11] You've seen him in so many things, and you remember how good he is.

[12] He's perfect.

[13] know this about you.

[14] If you've seen Ant Man, he was the funniest part of that movie.

[15] He's generally the best thing of all the movies he's in.

[16] He was in Crash.

[17] Oh, hell yeah, he was.

[18] That was his big breakout was in Crash.

[19] He's in that Mars movie with my boyfriend, Matt Damon.

[20] Uh -huh.

[21] Yeah, yeah, Veronica Mars.

[22] And he is currently on Narcos Mexico on Netflix.

[23] Stealing all them scenes as well.

[24] God, is he good?

[25] And I can give you a real down the road shout out.

[26] He's doing Fantasy Island right now with our top dog Ryan Hanson.

[27] They're in Fiji.

[28] Fiji.

[29] Making us jealous.

[30] So please enjoy sweetheart Michael Pena.

[31] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[32] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[33] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your.

[34] podcasts.

[35] Hi, Michael Payne.

[36] Welcome to armchair expert.

[37] So we were just talking about communication before we got in here, and you were just pointing out something that's really interesting, which is acknowledging people and how crucial that is to communicating.

[38] Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[39] Like, I, it's a, you know, I took a course on communication, which was so amazing.

[40] It was like a 15, 15 things that you need.

[41] Like, you know, there's duplication.

[42] What's duplication?

[43] What's just like, just like really knowing what the other person is talking about, being able to see it.

[44] Oh, okay.

[45] You know what I mean?

[46] Uh -huh.

[47] And that way you understand it.

[48] And acknowledging is one of them, like half acknowledgements, for instance.

[49] Like when you want people to keep going and talking, you're like, uh -huh, right?

[50] What you're really good at, by the way.

[51] Well, you know what's funny is I actually have to police myself on here because sometimes when I'll hear one of these episodes, this is what I hear in my head.

[52] Uh -huh, uh -huh, yeah, sure, yeah, go on.

[53] And I'm like, oh, my God.

[54] shut the fuck up.

[55] So now I have this new thing where I'm trying to not do it auditorily.

[56] And I just want a look at my eyes.

[57] And my eyes are saying, uh -huh, I'm with you.

[58] Right, right, right.

[59] But so do you have to edit that out?

[60] I do.

[61] Oh, do you really?

[62] Do you cut some of them out?

[63] Oh, yeah, because it just slows it down.

[64] Well, that's terrifying to me because when I hear, now I know, edited, it's so overwhelming.

[65] I can't even stand it.

[66] Sometimes I'm like, oh, my, just shut up.

[67] I love this.

[68] They're like, I think we have to edit it.

[69] I do.

[70] It happens.

[71] I do it to me, too, because often this person is like looks, and so I just have to be like, uh -huh.

[72] But then listening is just sounds crazy because then it's just a random person saying, uh -huh.

[73] And so it has to go.

[74] A little mouse.

[75] And then what's weird is that now that we've put that out there, uh -huh.

[76] Uh -huh.

[77] You just gave me a...

[78] I know, we might have to start doing video just.

[79] so you can see that I am still dialed in.

[80] But you were saying when you're talking to somebody and they're not giving you any of those indicators.

[81] It's acknowledgements, basic acknowledgments, which are like your mom, like, you can tell that they're not interested or if they go, right, right, right.

[82] You can tell that they don't know what you're talking about.

[83] And so, like, there's not a real communication.

[84] And I took that course because I wanted to get better at communicating, especially in acting, because I do that, even in acting.

[85] Yeah.

[86] Because I want to be in the moment, you know, And, like, I want to have a real conversation as opposed to, like, me just, you know, memorizing something and then going off a memory.

[87] Will you have such a...

[88] Wabi, why, would you turn that off?

[89] I'm nervous, I'm going to get way too hot.

[90] It gets a little chilly up here.

[91] I love that you're not warm yet, but you're nervous that you might get warm later.

[92] I'm perpetually living about 12 minutes ahead of myself.

[93] Like, as I'm turning at the light on Western, as I'm turning at that light, I'm grabbing the clicker for my gate.

[94] I'm still a half mile from home, but do you got your, do you got your, so stupid.

[95] It is.

[96] I know.

[97] I like, how many minutes a year am I?

[98] Do you?

[99] Dude, I have my finger on the handle before I'm done peeing.

[100] Oh, me too.

[101] I flush while I'm still peeing.

[102] I'm trying to anticipate one.

[103] And I'm trying to make sure that like, that it, that I pee just as it's finishing fishing.

[104] Absolutely.

[105] Then I hit a sweet spot of pee.

[106] And why?

[107] Like, are we trying to shave off seven, eight minutes?

[108] of our day by being like dead efficient like German train conductors.

[109] Because I don't, because we don't have time for flushes.

[110] Well, but I've been doing it since I was a kid.

[111] In fact, my best friend here Weekly will always, if I'm peeing and he can hear, he'll yell flush is coming.

[112] Like he knows, there's the peas starting to wind down.

[113] He knows I'm about to start flushing.

[114] Yeah, yeah.

[115] I noticed that I almost just like my signature, like I made a conscious decision one day to like not wait for the flush.

[116] I remember I was like, why am I waiting around for the flush.

[117] Sometimes my discipline does kick in and it's almost like, what's that character from train spotting that like just quits drugs?

[118] Yeah.

[119] Like Johnny Boy or something like that.

[120] And he's like, you know what?

[121] I'm going to quit drugs and you're like, you know what?

[122] I'm not going to flush it this time.

[123] This time I'm just going to let it roll and see it.

[124] That's the new me as of right this minute.

[125] But I made these weird choices when I was a kid around the same time.

[126] like I started working at the bank and maybe that's what it was because our, you know, our breaks were so quick and I was working the year before that I was working at a factory I was working two full -time jobs as a 16 -year -old and because I needed to make money to go to prep school.

[127] Right.

[128] I bet your grades were spectacular to stay in that school.

[129] No, because I was so tired.

[130] I know, of course not.

[131] No, but that's during the summer and then I had another job during um actually no i didn't i just lied there for some for no reason um i was in sports i want to quickly derail into that because you and i did a full three months of press together yeah and you and i are similar we have all these similar overlaps i started noticing and doing combined interviews with you and it was it was weird because i was able to kind of hear myself through you and i was wondering if that happened to you so like one thing i think you and i are both proud of is that like we kind of grew up on like, well, where I'm from, like dirt road kid, like, you know, shitty single mother, like all these challenges.

[132] And I find myself, like, weaving that into a question that maybe didn't have anything to do with that.

[133] Like, you know, like, oh, this must be fun to play a cop.

[134] And oh, yeah, coming from where I'm from.

[135] Like, and then I'll, like, lay out my story.

[136] Yeah.

[137] And then I would notice you would do it too.

[138] And I'm like, oh, look at it.

[139] We both do this thing.

[140] Does anyone really even give a shit?

[141] Yeah.

[142] And you know what?

[143] Like I, when I watch, and I'm going to do it right now.

[144] No, but when I watch somebody being interviewed and they get asked a question, and you're like, question's kind of cool.

[145] But then it leads somewhere cool.

[146] I'm like, oh, wow.

[147] Then it's almost like they're tapping into the subconscious of what they really want to answer.

[148] Right.

[149] You know, and then so I go on that ride.

[150] Yeah.

[151] Because I remember I was, dude, the one with Seth, when you interviewed Seth.

[152] Rogan?

[153] Rogan.

[154] Uh -huh.

[155] Oh, I was like, wow, you guys were doing that left.

[156] right and it was fantastic.

[157] You know, I thought that that was so cool.

[158] And then that led, you started off one and, you know, talking about cans or something like that.

[159] I'm just making this up.

[160] Yeah.

[161] And then, you know, all of a sudden it was like, you're breaking down comedy.

[162] And that was really interesting to me. Well, that's why I like the podcast thing, because when you and I are on these, because this is phenomenal, you want to talk about like a loss in translation moment.

[163] You and I went to Miami specifically to do Latin speaking media.

[164] Yeah.

[165] And I would be on a couch.

[166] with an earpiece in, while Michael and the host would speak in Spanish.

[167] And I would just sit there with a super dumb look on my face.

[168] And I'm listening to the translation.

[169] It's quite delayed.

[170] I feel like I'm on an interview on Mount Everest.

[171] And there's like a satellite delay.

[172] And it was just a very surreal experience.

[173] Yeah.

[174] And you know what was cool?

[175] I saw like the, you know, the 10 -year -old Dax or like, who, like, it looked like you were very comfortable in the moment.

[176] And then after after I got through speaking Spanish, you're like, me, me, me. What am I going to do?

[177] Oh, totally.

[178] Oh, that's great because that's a great quality because not a lot of people are comfortable doing that because I've had to do that with, you know, other actors that maybe don't speak Spanish, don't even understand Spanish, and they're at anxiety.

[179] You are like, I'm loving this.

[180] Well, also I think it was compounded by the, do you remember, because I had Lincoln with me who at the time was maybe only three.

[181] So here she is, I don't think she'd even been to like a studio watching me get interviewed.

[182] And then put on top of that, that they're all speaking a different language than me and I'm sitting there like a dumb dumb.

[183] I just kept thinking what it looked like through her eyes as well.

[184] Yeah.

[185] But they had us do so many silly things when we were we raced remote control cars.

[186] Oh, yeah.

[187] This was the greatest press tour, Monica, because everywhere we went there was a challenge and I'm very competitive and I have very fragile ego.

[188] Yes, I know.

[189] As do I. Yeah, as you.

[190] In pain, you beat me at every single thing.

[191] Even things that I am objectively probably better at.

[192] For whatever, I know because clearly not.

[193] Well, like, on paper, I'm much better than you.

[194] I own remote control cars and I have raised them.

[195] Like, there's no question if you and I go, you know, that's just one thing I'm going to probably be better at than you.

[196] And there's a million things you're going to be.

[197] But for on that day, on that Latino speaking show, I can't drive that fucking remote control car on a straight line.

[198] Here's the thing.

[199] This is where, you know, growing up poor really came into play.

[200] We both had messed up cars.

[201] Yes, yes.

[202] And I was like, I tested out mine and it was like, okay, if I go, it always just goes left.

[203] So I'm just going to be your right all the time.

[204] And you were trying to make that thing go straight.

[205] And it didn't go straight.

[206] It didn't go straight.

[207] And I just rolled with the punches where you're like, this is insane.

[208] I actually do this.

[209] And you're telling people your resume about your remote control cars.

[210] And real life racing.

[211] I'm bragging left and right.

[212] I've also put myself into a position where I have to win this.

[213] Like, this is what I do.

[214] And if you beat me, it's going to be humiliating.

[215] And then, of course, I was in my head and you destroyed me. But then we went, I mean, also doing it so publicly.

[216] We were in Philadelphia, remember, we went to a 76ers game.

[217] And they made us compete shooting free throws.

[218] Free throws.

[219] Oh, my God, you guys.

[220] Oh, my God.

[221] Yeah.

[222] You destroyed me. Well, isn't this kind of like, with any little game, I thought to myself, I'm like, there's a couple successful actions that I always, that I always bring with me that, like, Like, I'm not a good basketball player at all.

[223] I have no handles or whatever.

[224] But I remember, I watched, like, a video, like, 20 years ago or somebody that's saying, someone said, when you bounce down the release of you bouncing the basketball down into the ground is the same release that you use towards the basket.

[225] So that's what I did, just on a whim.

[226] And I was making a bunch of free throws.

[227] I'm going to add this, though, you're actually, and I've gotten this info, not just from you, which I don't know that I would believe, but from many other people, that you're a great golfer.

[228] And golf is so fucking mental, right?

[229] It's just you versus you in the moment of impact is so paramount.

[230] It's got very precise, yeah.

[231] That I feel like you were able to block out the 50 ,000 fans, and you dialed into some kind of Zen.

[232] for your shooting.

[233] So you probably shot however good you can shoot.

[234] Or you were just calm.

[235] Yeah.

[236] And I'm like, I got to beat Michael.

[237] There's 50 ,000 people watching.

[238] I'm kind of good at basketball.

[239] And I'm fucking.

[240] Again, I'm like, on paper, I should definitely.

[241] Again, it'd be like if you and I went and did a golf, like some kind of golf contest.

[242] Right.

[243] You're going to go into that thinking, well, I'm going to destroy Shepard.

[244] This guy doesn't even golf.

[245] You know what's funny about golf.

[246] And, well, it's because I grew up, like, I was wrestling, you know, and I remember when I went down state, I wrestled.

[247] in front of like a full stadium like you know it was down uh champagne urbana um and it was at a state school college and the stadium was full so i was like wow this is how it is and i was i was a ham to be honest with you okay i didn't even know i was like a super quiet kid growing up like i wasn't shot necessarily but i was just quiet because i was always the new kid i went to 12 different schools.

[248] And so when that happened, I showed, I tried to show, I got beat, but I try to show off a little bit and like, oh like be slick with your moves and stuff.

[249] I mean like, or just look like an athlete, you know, and for some reason it affected the other guy.

[250] I did win a couple.

[251] Okay.

[252] And and when the crowd was like, come on, Mike, I really got into it and I fed off of that and I got an adrenaline rush, which made me stronger.

[253] Uh -huh.

[254] And concentrate better.

[255] So I think that, I mean, that happens like in golf tournaments.

[256] The worst thing right in golf is to try to fucking murder it.

[257] Yeah.

[258] Isn't it?

[259] Well, no, not really.

[260] I mean, I think the only thing that it does is that you know that you're going to be nervous, right?

[261] And then so you just let it be, whatever.

[262] Okay, I'm going to be nervous just like when you were acting.

[263] I don't know if you get nervous, but I'm like, I do feel nerves a lot.

[264] Especially when I, oddly enough, when I really do a lot of homework.

[265] And because at the end of the day, you want to entertain people.

[266] you want to, you know, you want to, you know, have a great performance, you know, or good or whatever as good as you could possibly can.

[267] And so there's a lot of pressure that I put on myself because I've studied so much, because I'm dreaming big of what possibly could be.

[268] I will add, though, to your case, which is semi -unique, well, it certainly differs for mine, is you are quite regularly in movies where you're with somebody you likely idolized or look up to as an actor.

[269] You know, you do kind of good movies with pretty darn big actors.

[270] So I'd imagine there's that extra layer of wanting to be good or nerves because of them.

[271] Is that in the mix or no?

[272] Yeah, no, for sure.

[273] Like, I just did a movie with Bradley Cooper.

[274] Okay.

[275] Right.

[276] And, you know, it even dates back.

[277] Like, I remember doing a movie with Rachel McAdams.

[278] And I think she's like really, I mean, she's been nominated.

[279] So I'm like, I think she's doing okay.

[280] But I thought I was like, wow, she's really underrated, man. Because there was a couple times where I'm like, I can't even, I don't even know if she's acting or not.

[281] This is really amazing.

[282] Yeah.

[283] Does she mean this?

[284] You know, and I thought, wow, how amazing it, you know, is that.

[285] And then I remember I did a movie with Don Chito.

[286] You know, he was talking to me and I was like, wait, what do he, what are he saying?

[287] Oh, oh, I'm sorry, because he was so natural.

[288] Oh, he is.

[289] So I do, I do tend to look at somebody's strengths and what they're doing well.

[290] Because anybody can be a critic.

[291] Anybody can, you know, can just totally, you know, tear a performance down.

[292] But what did they do right?

[293] Yeah.

[294] You know.

[295] Well, just even if you look at where you, I mean, I realize you didn't start here because it's 2004 and you've been doing little roles here and there since 96, I guess.

[296] Yeah.

[297] But Crash 2004, that's kind of the breakout performance for you, right?

[298] Right.

[299] Yeah.

[300] And in that movie, you have Cheetos in it.

[301] Yeah.

[302] A bunch of great people.

[303] And I literally...

[304] And virtually, you're the only other lead character that no one knows.

[305] So really, everyone knows everyone else.

[306] Yeah.

[307] I would...

[308] I mean, it was a lot of people.

[309] And I was living in a place smaller than this, you know, than this attic here.

[310] So I was like, yeah.

[311] And I was, I was super nervous, man. I was super nervous.

[312] But then I said, you know, this is what I want to do.

[313] I just want to do this.

[314] And I just want to...

[315] I planned everything out, you know.

[316] And at that point I didn't have any kids Right So I had to do research on how it is like to have a kid And so luckily for me My brother had just had his first kid Angelina Jolie No Is it His brother Named his daughter Angelina After Angelina Jolie Love it how like I'm giving such a heartfelt I'm really trying to give you something, and you're like, Angelina Jolie, with that smile, like, that's what I'm saying, like a 10 -year -old, that you're like, ooh.

[317] It's just so good.

[318] This is so good.

[319] But it wasn't, it wasn't Angelina Joel.

[320] No, it was Ariana.

[321] Okay.

[322] Yeah, so we'll talk about that later.

[323] But, like, so anyway, I went to go visit him, and he's, my brother's like a really good -looking dude, you know what I mean?

[324] He was like, always really nice to girls.

[325] Older brother.

[326] Yeah, girls loved him, you know, that guy.

[327] And he was like, one of those, like, you know, dudes were like, he always had.

[328] He had his hair done with gel, you know what I mean?

[329] Open shirt.

[330] Fuck yeah.

[331] Tell me more.

[332] That olive skin like yours?

[333] Go on.

[334] Oh, my God.

[335] You can see, you don't, he shaved his chest, maybe.

[336] Okay, sure, maybe.

[337] This is the image that I have of my brother, but you can see his chain, you know, with the tan.

[338] Well, I met him.

[339] He's still a handsome dude.

[340] He's still a handsome dude.

[341] And he's a cop.

[342] Yeah, he's a cop.

[343] And then when I got home, you know, I remember even just the first day, I said, you know, because I got to do some research.

[344] His hair is disheveled.

[345] He looks like his breath stinks.

[346] You know, he looks like he hasn't slept in four days.

[347] You know?

[348] And then he's like, hey, Mike, what's going on?

[349] I was like, oh, I was correct.

[350] His breath does smell.

[351] And then we sit down and he just holds that little baby for like an eternity.

[352] And she's sleeping.

[353] And he's like, oh, look, look, look, look, dude.

[354] So his attention completely went from.

[355] from him, looking in the mirror, looking, you know, how he is, whatever, to, to, you know, maybe plucking it, I don't know, to this kid.

[356] And I said, oh, I can play that, that I can do.

[357] Like just put all the attention on this other person.

[358] And then I had just read a book about, on Buddhism, and where, you know, they believe in past lives or whatnot.

[359] And then they spoke to a kid like they've been here for millions and millions of years or whatever it is.

[360] And I thought, wow, that's a really cool thing.

[361] And then so I, you know, when I went to the audition, I said, here's what I want to do, which is a little different.

[362] I'm not going to talk to him like a kid.

[363] I'm going to talk to him like somebody at a bar, you know.

[364] And then that's basically what I did.

[365] Well, do you remember about four months ago I text you?

[366] Because I just happened to be flipped.

[367] First and foremost, that movie was my introduction to you.

[368] And I loved that movie.

[369] I know it's a polarizing movie.

[370] It is?

[371] It is.

[372] A lot of people don't think it should have won best picture.

[373] Oh.

[374] Because there's too many coincidences.

[375] I think that's the critique of it.

[376] But I fucking love that movie.

[377] I don't care about the coincidences.

[378] Yeah, you sent me that.

[379] So I sent him a picture.

[380] Have you seen Crash, Monica?

[381] Yeah, I have.

[382] I don't say this lightly.

[383] I'm not that, I'm not an actor file.

[384] I'm not like blown away with great, whatever.

[385] People are saying lines in front of a camera.

[386] He's fucking beautiful.

[387] in that movie to the point where like I had chills as a 25 year old dude watching you interact with that little girl and then it had been years and then yeah it was on a few months ago I'm just flipping and then it's like you're walking into the room for that scene and I'm like oh I'm gonna well I remember this a good scene and then all over again I was like oh my god how the fuck did he do that what were you 25 four six yeah I mean I don't know it was like 15 years ago it was like 26 or something 27?

[388] Yeah, it is incredible.

[389] But you know what's crazy?

[390] It was one of those times where like, you know, you do research when you don't know how to do something.

[391] And everything came together for that part.

[392] And I'm really proud of it.

[393] I don't know if it's a great performance, but I'm like, it was one of my proudest performance, if that makes any sense.

[394] Because I live through that.

[395] Like, I lived through a lot of racism.

[396] I remember when I went from like the ghetto ghetto where I grew up, it's just north of Pilsen, which is really nice.

[397] In Chicago.

[398] Yeah, Mexican area.

[399] But I lived across the street from Douglas Park.

[400] which had literally it had four different opposing gangs that were always fighting.

[401] And like half of my, like people were getting stabbed.

[402] First day of kindergarten, like some, you know, some kid was trying to stab a crossing guard.

[403] You know, so it was one of those kind of places.

[404] And that would, but, you know, you don't know you're living in the ghetto until you leave it.

[405] Yeah, yeah, isn't that interesting?

[406] Yeah, because I was like, oh, this is just life.

[407] And people were actually happy.

[408] sure um and they just and then until a tragedy happened and then it was this kind of tragedy it wasn't like divorce tragedy even though it felt as bad you know to some of the kids you know crying or whatever it was like your friend died you know or you know your friend's not with us anymore uh they moved they always lie to the kids and then when i went to um this school um we moved to a nicer place which is lower lower middle class um i got called like spick like go back to your country And this was, I remember being really confused and thinking, wow, this is really like, I don't understand it.

[409] Yeah.

[410] Why are these kids being so mean to me?

[411] And I had to fight a couple times.

[412] And, you know, the seventh grader, it can really hurt your heart.

[413] Oh, God.

[414] You know what I mean?

[415] Well, being excluded, especially in junior high, that's where you start getting, for me, at least, really conscious of, am I included?

[416] Oh, there's cool groups, there's lame groups.

[417] Like, in elementary, it's not really that obvious.

[418] but junior high people are dating people are going to parties things are happening you're on the inside or the outside and you get painfully aware of that hurry so when i when i think of all the racism stuff that like that's going on in the country i don't really think about the adults that are suffering this stuff because they're setting their ways you know they mean they call me names i don't care like me what i'm worried about is the kids is the 10 year old kids that are just coming into their own and like they're at home at night crying because they think that they're not that different and then all of a sudden this big you know person say it black or white some honky oh no but it's going both ways though dude okay you know what i mean it's just not one there's like it's it's a double standard so the black kids aren't rolling out the red carpet either yeah no i mean i think it's i think it's a lot of well right now it's like obviously like a lot of white people doing that but my my wife who is white got it when she was a kid from all these Mexican girls.

[419] You know, and we...

[420] Because she grew up in L .A. Yeah, she grew up in L .A. And she's like, I'm going to kick your ass.

[421] She's like, what?

[422] And we were sharing these stories.

[423] So that's what I think of.

[424] I don't even know how we got here, by the way, but like...

[425] That's the fun.

[426] Yeah, yeah.

[427] I think about, like, the poor 10 -year -old kids who are just coming into their own that are suffering and crying in their rooms at night.

[428] That's what I think about.

[429] Well, what's interesting is when you did that role, like I can't imagine you were aware then, or maybe even aware now, that you were the beginning of kind of a wave because we've had many black stars.

[430] Right.

[431] Like, they've definitely been excluded, yet there have been many black stars.

[432] By the time you and I grow up, there are many black stars.

[433] Right.

[434] I did my first movie with Sidney Portier.

[435] Oh, really?

[436] Yeah, that's when I got into acting.

[437] Yeah, he'll get you into acting, huh?

[438] I was working at a bank at the time, and I was going to go to DePaul University of business school and my best friend's mom says you should be an actor because you're good at imitating and i used to do these imitations for 25 cents um i used to like imitate the nun um or the you know the the the priest or whatever and especially at the prep school they would pay me 25 cents for these things and i and i'm like oh great i can buy a turkey sandwich right they used to love those you do do really good impersonations um but more psychologically not exactly a real impersonation but more psychologically tap into Yeah, I was like this, they would say this thing, you know, in this scenario.

[439] And that's how I got, I went to an open call and seven auditions later, I was testing for, like, the lead kid.

[440] I, I was, apparently I was horrible at the audition.

[441] So they stuck me in as a featured extra.

[442] And I thought, ooh, I made it.

[443] Yeah, well, you did.

[444] How old were you?

[445] No, but I didn't.

[446] I know, but you still did.

[447] Oh, yeah.

[448] Just a be in something.

[449] How old were you?

[450] I was 18.

[451] Yeah.

[452] That's, to me, that would have been like.

[453] Yeah.

[454] Dude, if I, there was a couple times I was in the background on the news growing up.

[455] And I was, yeah, like, there was like a cherry.

[456] Like a bar fight.

[457] Well, there was a cherry seed spitting contest in Traverse City during the Cherry Festival.

[458] Yeah, I was like in the background.

[459] I was competed in it and won my age group.

[460] Yeah.

[461] I mean, that was like, I felt like I was Phil fucking Donahue, just being like visible on the news.

[462] Dude, I remember I was on the, I was in the paper because I took Second and City in Chicago for wrestling.

[463] Uh -huh.

[464] And I had a broken nose, a dislocated thumb, and I had a black eye.

[465] And I was so happy, you know, that I, like, I looked like beat up Sylvester Stallone in the picture.

[466] I was so happy to take second place.

[467] And then my mom says, I couldn't wrestle.

[468] And I was like, well, I thought.

[469] I was like, well, because you have a broken nose, a dislocated thumb.

[470] Yeah, because you're going to die doing this.

[471] You're going to die, yeah.

[472] Your mom, she was a social worker?

[473] She was a social worker, yeah.

[474] she was an immigrant she came to the united states um in her 20s uh she she i think she only went up to sixth grade in mexico and then she she um finished high school here all the way up to high school uh -huh and so i remember as a kid her you know like i'm going with her like after school and i'm just waiting um for her to finish high school all the times of complaining like a little bitch you know well your mom betters herself yeah well my mom betters herself It kills herself to feed you guys.

[475] Yeah, exactly.

[476] And then she got her diploma and she got a job as a social worker, which was really cool.

[477] And she would basically help a lot of people and try to better their living situations and sometimes you have to take the kids away if they were crackheads or whatnot.

[478] Yeah.

[479] And so we'd have to get into the car and just race off sometimes.

[480] She would get in the car, get in the car.

[481] I'm like, what, what?

[482] And then the kid was dirty as hell and like kind of bloody.

[483] Well, isn't that something?

[484] I mean, even when you grow up, that's the thing.

[485] Like, so there were moments where I lived in the really, you know, the welfare apartment.

[486] And you might, to your point about being a kid, you're like, oh, this is just life on planned earth.

[487] And there's always someone worse than you.

[488] So there's always, you know, you can always visibly see someone's like, oh, well, they're fucked up.

[489] They, they got it rough.

[490] And it can help you.

[491] It can get you through.

[492] You're like, at least I'm not like that kid.

[493] Yeah, yeah.

[494] We don't have the McMansion, but at the same time, you know.

[495] Exactly.

[496] But oddly enough, you know what's funny.

[497] I Dude, when I went to prep school Marist High School in Chicago Which was a great school Really taught me a lot of stuff The most depressed kids that I saw Were the rich kids Because their dad Like my dad Even though he was super tired Like I didn't see him all weeks Just like basically my mom And now I understand Like he wasn't really around Because he was working so much To like Pay for the bills Right And put us through prep school Me and my brother My brother was in Catholic school Would your dad do?

[498] He was, he worked at a place called Handy Button, which he used to make buttons in a factory.

[499] And I used to think it was so cool because they had these huge machines.

[500] And as a kid, you're like, wow, these are like transformers.

[501] And, you know, he, but he would come to a couple of, like, football games and, like, wrestling things.

[502] Trying to keep himself awake at those things.

[503] Yeah, exactly.

[504] Exactly.

[505] Not and off in the audience.

[506] Yeah, yeah.

[507] And then there were some rich kids where, like, the dads just never came around.

[508] Yeah.

[509] Yeah, they were MIA, and they were, like, in the freshman year, like, you could see that it was taking a toll by junior year.

[510] Like, they were like, fuck this.

[511] And then they started to make trouble.

[512] Yeah, yeah.

[513] Well, how many super rich people do we know here in L .A.?

[514] Where you're like, God, I just thought you'd be happier.

[515] Right, but there's no game, dude.

[516] There's, like, what are they doing in life?

[517] You know what I mean?

[518] They have everything that they need.

[519] They're not going out and struggling and, like, accomplishing something.

[520] Like, do you remember your first, like, good paycheck?

[521] Oh, God.

[522] Yeah.

[523] ragged about.

[524] I told people, I was so inappropriate.

[525] Like, you're not supposed to tell people what you made.

[526] And without a paddle, I remember.

[527] I was with Michael Rosenbaum.

[528] And I got the call.

[529] I'm like, so I got the offer?

[530] Yeah.

[531] And how much is it?

[532] I was like, oh, my God.

[533] Oh, my God, that much money.

[534] And I tell him immediately, I'm getting it.

[535] And I tell him one of us.

[536] Yeah, I couldn't keep a lid on it.

[537] Oh, yeah.

[538] I mean, with me, I only, I only was like that with my brother because we're so competitive.

[539] Right.

[540] But it was like, dude, I got $2 ,000, bro.

[541] I said, you did?

[542] Shut up.

[543] I'm like, yeah, bro.

[544] I was like, I got to go, dude.

[545] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[546] We've all been there.

[547] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[548] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[549] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[550] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[551] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[552] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[553] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[554] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[555] What's up, guys?

[556] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[557] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[558] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[559] And I don't mean just friends.

[560] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[561] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[562] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[563] So back to you and Crash.

[564] I doubt you would be aware of it, but, you know, as you pointed out when we were promoting chips, like Erica Strata was the first Latino lead on a TV show.

[565] Right, yeah.

[566] In your childhood, where you're like, wait a minute.

[567] A dude looks like me is on TV.

[568] Yeah.

[569] And that's in 79.

[570] That's in 79, which is kind of late, you know.

[571] But you still...

[572] And then you had, what, Edwards, James Elmo?

[573] But see, that was my guy.

[574] Edward James, almost, like, I was happy that, and that's why, like, I change any of the names into a Latin name, even if it doesn't start out that way.

[575] Characters that you get past as fun.

[576] Characters that I play, because I'm like, I think maybe it'll inspire some kids, inspire some people that are Latin.

[577] But I remember when I watched Stan and Deliver how inspired I was, you know, when he was teaching calculus to these inner city kids.

[578] Yeah.

[579] And I ended up in high school taking calculus.

[580] and, you know, I barely passed it or whatever because I, you know, I went to a school that was...

[581] Well, because it's fucking hard.

[582] Yeah, yeah.

[583] No, but you need to go to a good school.

[584] Like, you need to go to a good grammar school to prepare you for the kind of high school that I went to.

[585] Right.

[586] Yeah, did you feel underwater when you got there?

[587] Unbelievably, there was a huge learning curve and I was just playing catch up for like the first two years.

[588] What was your reaction to that?

[589] Because I could see it giving you either an inferiority complex or also making you, like, give you, like, you a good chip on your shoulder where you're like no fuck you i know i am it was the first one it was the first one you got an inferiority complex yeah because i you know especially when somebody has like such a great vocabulary i i i was like wow this person's much smarter than me even though like i'm i'm great at math um like it definitely like made me feel insecure and then when i got to hollywood i was like wow i was really insecure because i i i didn't have the vocabulary but i wanted to be a good actor.

[590] I wanted to be a good working actor, you know, in every different genre and be able to be effective in every different genre.

[591] And, and, and, and I had, I had to study a lot more than, than the other guys.

[592] Right.

[593] But when you did crash, um, up to that point, you had played like gangbanger number one, gangbanger number two, gangbanger number three, you working your way out there.

[594] I said that in a talk to, but it's totally true.

[595] Yeah, I guess you started probably at gang bang number five and we're working your way up to number one your goals change and then you're like fuck this man I want to that guy always gets a gang leader you know you get competitive at whatever level you're at right you're going to be a fucking gang leader dude I'm like I'm gonna start working out bro you know and I'm like I'm gonna fuck up that NYPD blue dude I'm like I'm gonna I'm gonna work on my New York accent dude I'm like and then I'd call my mom was like I got a gang leader she's like oh my yeah is that way well what I was when I was I was looking at your resume today.

[596] I did notice you were on NYPD Blue like eight years apart.

[597] A bunch of times, dude.

[598] Like, no, it was.

[599] Oh, it was more than that.

[600] Yeah, it was more than that.

[601] Always different characters.

[602] But always some kind of miscreant or something.

[603] Yeah, or something, like, whatever.

[604] And then I remember, I made up, I was like, you know what?

[605] If I'm going to play gangbangers, I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to be an actor.

[606] Right.

[607] So I started playing music.

[608] And then also, there was a couple of things.

[609] I'm like, and then if I'm going to play and a gangbanger, I'm going to, I'm going to apply all this, you know, all the, my teachings are studying that I was doing for like Sanford Meisner and all this acting technique, and I'm going to play him like a real person.

[610] Right.

[611] And the first time that I did that was Crash.

[612] Right.

[613] Well, I think Crash was kind of a real revelation for a lot of people.

[614] I think that, and it's a testament to both you and probably Paul Haggis, that it was, you took this really generic trope of the LA Gang Bang or the shaved head.

[615] And then you saw, oh, this guy has a kid and oh, this guy loves his kid like you.

[616] Like, it was really I thought it was really powerful.

[617] And I think up to that point, maybe I missed some movies along the way, but it seemed like Latino characters were largely filling the same role that black folks always had in the 60s and 70s like, oh, they're going to be the drug addict and the criminal and all these things.

[618] And that performance, even though starting with that premise of you being a gangbanger and stuff, like transcended that in a way that I think, I think shifted the whole thing.

[619] I think there's a lot of different roles being written now.

[620] And I think that's one of the first big starting points for all that.

[621] It did, it did change.

[622] I mean, it changed my career.

[623] And I think that right now, the generation that we're living in is awesome.

[624] Because I, yeah, I can name like five really talented Latino actors now that are getting big lead roles.

[625] Yeah.

[626] I don't think you could have.

[627] done that in 2004.

[628] No, and you know what?

[629] Do you remember the breakdowns?

[630] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[631] I couldn't even believe it.

[632] I still have some of them where...

[633] So just really quick, when they make a movie or a TV show, they send out a breakdown to all the casting directors and they're listing the characters and what they're looking for.

[634] Yeah, and a brief description of what they are.

[635] Yeah.

[636] So you're like, oh, I could play this guy.

[637] Basically, like the first, I'd say, eight would be Caucasian only.

[638] It'd be Caucasian.

[639] Caucasian.

[640] You're like, uh, uh, uh, uh, and then, and then oddly enough, like number nine would be like African American, name.

[641] But it had to be a name.

[642] Right.

[643] And then it wouldn't be until like 15 that it would say open to other ethnicities.

[644] So the best I could do is 15th place.

[645] Right.

[646] Back in the day.

[647] And so that way, that's why I was like, I don't know if this acting thing is going to work out.

[648] I'm still going to do it for the rest of my life.

[649] But I just not, I might not have the type of success that I want to have because I don't think it's out there for me. Yeah.

[650] And so.

[651] Well, what's interesting is I had, I had all these moments with you along your career that you were, of course, unaware of because you weren't with me. But of course, Crash was like my introduction to you.

[652] And I was like, I really, really like that guy.

[653] And he's really special.

[654] Then I saw, and this was part of my pitch to you when I tried to get you to do chips.

[655] Then I saw him to watch.

[656] And I was like, oh, dude.

[657] This guy's like a lead hero, like a franchise dude.

[658] This is like a Latino Eddie Murphy when I saw 48 hours.

[659] Like this guy's got charisma to burn.

[660] He's a movie star.

[661] That movie was just, you were so great in that.

[662] I had just assumed you were those people, I guess, as you would do.

[663] Right.

[664] And then as we come to get to know each other, I'm like, oh, I've never really seen Peña.

[665] Payne, Michael Payne, in a movie, really.

[666] Now that I know you, and I don't think I've had that experience too often, but when we first started working on chips, you and I are opposites, right?

[667] Like I almost, well, in this way, like, I weirdly think of myself as being at my best when I feel like I'm falling off a cliff and I'm trying to catch up, right?

[668] Like, so if I'm in a scene where I almost half know the dialogue, that somehow ends up, being my best.

[669] So I don't like to rehearse at all.

[670] And you love to rehearse.

[671] When we first started talking, you're like, I want to rehearse every day for a month leading up to it.

[672] Right.

[673] And I was like, oh, wow, how are we going to do that?

[674] What am I going to do in these rehearsals, blah, blah, blah.

[675] And one of the fascinating things I learned about you is we sit down for like the first time to rehearse.

[676] And you started asking me all these questions.

[677] And I guess I'm like, are you asking me as your scene partner or as the director and you go no no i'm talking to the writer i always meet with the writer yeah which is a very interesting thing that i never met an actor that does that so when you do a movie you're initially most interested in meeting the writer all the time because if i if i take a look at the anatomy of making a movie everyone agrees on a script and and you're like wow this is a great script i'm going to produce your script Producers go to director.

[678] Wow, this is a great script, great story.

[679] And it's got a couple of things, but whatever, blah, blah, blah, but I want to direct it.

[680] An actor looks at the team, reads a script, sees this, I mean, it's the story.

[681] I mean, it's basically ideas put together and structured, and structured, and say, you know what, I want to do this movie.

[682] So for me, I always go to the person that does, you know, like made up this story.

[683] The world.

[684] Created this story, right?

[685] And so to me, I want to know what they were thinking like, what they were, what they were thinking, what they wrote.

[686] And sometimes they don't think.

[687] It's like streamlined of consciousness.

[688] And I want to know what's behind it.

[689] Right.

[690] And if not, like, sometimes a story of mine might mirror that.

[691] And so I'm not afraid of rehearsing because rehearsing isn't to me, like, you know, doing the same lines over and over and over again.

[692] It's fortifying, like, the pictures stronger and stronger.

[693] So I know what I'm talking about.

[694] And then, but also while we rehearsing, you wrote some killer scenes.

[695] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[696] Because of our conversation.

[697] Yeah, like when we did end of watch, we rehearsed so much.

[698] Me and Jake, Jillenhall, who was fantastic, man. He was so great and really, like, you know, help me, especially with my confidence.

[699] It's like, dude, do it.

[700] It's awesome when you're doing that.

[701] So I really got to thank Jake for that, you know.

[702] But there was times where we would rehearse and we kept talking about the same thing.

[703] the same things.

[704] And then there would be a couple of improv scenes.

[705] Well, we talked about the same things.

[706] So it really didn't feel like improv.

[707] Right.

[708] Right.

[709] And it always felt fresh, especially we could rehearse it a hundred times.

[710] But then when you do it on camera, it changes.

[711] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[712] It's almost like when you rehearse for an audition, you rehearse and rehearse and rehearse and you go into an audition and it's completely different.

[713] Yes.

[714] And you've got to be ready for that.

[715] Yeah.

[716] But, but yeah, so what's funny is my, my strength is almost the opposite of yours, which is my strength is I can get to what I can do really quick.

[717] Like, I have a little zone that I stay in and then the only upside of it is I can get there really quick.

[718] I don't have to think much about it.

[719] Right.

[720] I can just do it.

[721] And then you are very much more building a house.

[722] And it was really fun to watch how you go through all that.

[723] And what you're, I agree, what we would just start shooting the shit.

[724] Then we're talking about whether, you know, people eat each other's asses and we're both laughing, like, very sincerely.

[725] And then you're like, now, this is the kind of thing they should talk about.

[726] And I'm like, yeah, let me try to write up an eating ass scene.

[727] Yeah.

[728] By the way, I can't believe, dude, it's so inappropriate.

[729] Like, when I'm with my kid and my wife and we're in an airport and they're like, dude, man, I just want to tell you that I eat ass too, man. I'm like, fuck, come on, dude.

[730] I'm with a family, man. He's like, no, no, but it's true.

[731] It's true.

[732] I'm like, I didn't even write that.

[733] Like, dude, Dax wrote that.

[734] Dax is the purve that would have eaten mass. I'm like, I'm like, Dax is talking about himself, man. You know?

[735] I'm like, you know, but you wrote my character like you.

[736] Yeah, of course.

[737] Yeah, yeah.

[738] Of course.

[739] Well, that's what's funny is like these two characters are opposites, but really they're just kind of all.

[740] I am all those things.

[741] I was drug addict, sex addict, everything.

[742] It was just kind of two sides.

[743] maybe.

[744] But you, first of all, that scene was the easiest one we shot in the whole movie, don't you think?

[745] Yeah, that was so cool, yeah.

[746] We did it one time and we were like, oh, well, that's this, we did that.

[747] On the very first time out of the gates.

[748] Yeah.

[749] Well, let's do it two more times for fun.

[750] Yeah.

[751] But it didn't get better.

[752] It just, we had a couple more different details in there.

[753] But that scene just happened just magically, I think, right out of the gates.

[754] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[755] And I mean, I think you wrote a great scene.

[756] Well, but we were both so sensitive.

[757] sincere about our points of view.

[758] Which I thought was, but that kid, see, that's what the kind of thing that comes out of rehearsal is become, it's become kind of a cult hit.

[759] Oh, uh, chips?

[760] Yeah, um, the biggest compliment that I think we both can get is there was a, uh, a gentleman that, like, was scrolling through and it was like, I think a, a flight to like Australia or something.

[761] He's looking, he's like, uh, put on chips.

[762] I was like, that's pretty cool.

[763] Oh, I remember shooting that part, blah, blah, blah.

[764] I'm sitting behind him.

[765] Oh, uh -huh.

[766] You know, and then he's done with it, laughing his ass off.

[767] I was like, oh, cringing, making sure my kid doesn't see it, whatever.

[768] And then it ends.

[769] He's scrolling again.

[770] Fuck it.

[771] I'm going to watch chips again.

[772] Get the fuck out of here.

[773] Oh, I would.

[774] All the way through and laughing.

[775] Oh, wow.

[776] Laughing again.

[777] Oh, I would have been doing cartwheels down the aisle if I would have seen that.

[778] You would not have been hiding.

[779] You would have stuck your head through.

[780] I would have tapped him on the.

[781] shoulder yeah i wrote that that's mine the 10 year like that that that was that that was me yeah but i don't know i would be curious about your experience if you had to sum it all up i had an experience recently that was allowed me to experience what you had experience in the movie that went way over my head oh explain well let me just start by saying that i think you and i had crazy chemistry like you just have it or you don't we had so much fun though didn't We did have fun, but I would say, from my point of view, I felt often while we were making the movie that I wasn't certain you ever truly trusted me. I felt like you were thinking, he's full of shit.

[782] He's not this nice or something.

[783] To me, where I felt like you and I fell in love was on that press tour.

[784] You know what's funny, dude?

[785] I'm like, I always, like, loved you.

[786] I think that you're like an awesome person.

[787] Okay.

[788] And the thing that you probably saw was just my nerves.

[789] Oh, okay.

[790] And, like, my anxiety of, that's why I need to prepare, like, the way that I do to be able to, you know, just push through the nerves.

[791] Yeah.

[792] And so, you're probably seeing that.

[793] And so when, and then, and then I'm also lenient when other actors are acting up, I ask myself, is it nerves?

[794] Oh.

[795] I mean, are they at anxiety?

[796] Are they scared?

[797] You're like, dude, I really, come on, man. I need this to happen.

[798] You know, you'll see actors like, dude, oh, my God, man. I just, I mean, you're like, oh, the guy's just a little nervous.

[799] I totally get it.

[800] Right.

[801] I totally get it.

[802] That's a very benevolent place to be viewing it from it.

[803] But it's also the reality of it.

[804] You know what I mean?

[805] The reality of it.

[806] And I'm like, because I was nervous a little bit every day.

[807] Well, there were things also that I would want you to do that were out of your comfort zone.

[808] Like, we had to be big pretty often.

[809] Like, overly big.

[810] Like, there were just broad.

[811] Broad.

[812] Yeah.

[813] Or, um.

[814] No, but see, that's, I'm like, but I did the movie.

[815] Right.

[816] And I remember thinking I was like, and I like being uncomfortable when I'm when I'm filming if that makes any sense because that was uncomfortable and then when I'm listening to you say things I don't think I've ever I didn't I never said I'm like no I'm not doing that I always process it I'm like okay how am I gonna make that real for me how am I gonna so you can tell me I want you to do this you know and scream at your brother I'm like okay why am I going to do it like how is how is that going to be real to me right you know what And then I get ideas about it.

[817] And then so I'm figuring it out how it's going to be real for me. Oh, okay.

[818] So I came to a very wrong conclusion.

[819] But this was my conclusion.

[820] So I recently was co -starred with somebody and they were directing.

[821] Oh, wow.

[822] For the whole project.

[823] Yeah.

[824] And what I started immediately feeling was, and I missed it really bad, which is one of the funest things of being an actor is it's you and your scene partner almost versed the director in a weird way.

[825] Even if you love the director and you want to do exactly what they're, you're trying with your scene partner to go, like, what are you and I going to do in here?

[826] What are we going to create?

[827] There's like this, there's a companionship in like this shared goal and you're going to agree upon it.

[828] You're going to like compromise.

[829] You're going to talk about it and then you're going to execute it together.

[830] Right.

[831] And it's this like partnership you have.

[832] And for the first time I experienced, where I was like, oh, no, this person already has an idea of what this is supposed to be, and it doesn't really include me and this person figuring that out.

[833] Right.

[834] Because it's the director.

[835] It's just the nature of a director.

[836] They have a global view of what the thing's supposed to be.

[837] That's their job.

[838] Yeah, yeah.

[839] And so it doesn't allow for you and I to have that experience where we decide what it's going to be as actors.

[840] I mean, the director is going to keep us in a box, right?

[841] But you and I as actors are going to decide what it's going to be.

[842] Right.

[843] But for you, you were kind of robbed of that because I, too, had this global thing of what it was going to be.

[844] I don't think I was robbed about it because we were rehearsing so much.

[845] But you didn't feel like that experience you and Jake had.

[846] You don't feel like I kind of didn't allow that to happen.

[847] I could see where I would be guilty of having not allowed it to be as much ours as two actors in the scene.

[848] Well, here's the thing.

[849] when we were rehearsing, you changed a lot of this stuff.

[850] Yeah, I guess that all happened in rehearsal.

[851] And then it all happened in rehearsal.

[852] Right.

[853] And then once you started directing, I gave you like, I guess kind of the attitude of like when I didn't want to do something that I would give a director.

[854] Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

[855] But if you're my co -star, so you're like, but I'm your co -star.

[856] I'm like, right now you're not.

[857] Right now you're the director, dude.

[858] And I don't know if I want to do that.

[859] And you're like, well, just do it for me, okay?

[860] Say it for me. And I'm like, okay.

[861] but I don't like there was one time there was one time in the ambulance where I was like that doesn't make sense to me you're like just say it and I'm like I need it to make sense you got bent out of shame and then we're so sensitive that you're like here's the thing that really hurt my feelings I'm like dude that hurt my feelings too bro yeah we matched it out after we matched it out of me so I went to children's L .A. Children's Hospital last weekend gave presents out right to kids in there.

[862] Oh, dude, next time you do that, call me, dude.

[863] Oh, it's so fun.

[864] It's so fun.

[865] It's great because you, they don't want to sit around and talk about how sad it is.

[866] They just want to have, like, fun.

[867] Like living in the ghetto, dude.

[868] I don't want to talk about how poor I am.

[869] I'm like, dude, let's have, let's, I want a distraction.

[870] Yes.

[871] So, I go in there, but the comical thing, of course, is none of these kids know who I am.

[872] I mean, they're kids.

[873] They don't watch anything I do.

[874] So it's like, you're being invited because you're famous, but then as you're walking down the hall, it starts occurring.

[875] You're like, well, this nine -year -old is not going to, It's just going to be a strange, tall, goofy white guy that walked in.

[876] But there was a really funny moment.

[877] So the nurse would kind of tell me before I went into each room like, oh, this is Kara.

[878] She's this year's old, blah, blah, blah.

[879] And we walk into one room.

[880] And before we get in, she goes like, oh, this is David.

[881] This is going to be hard.

[882] He's been here for three weeks.

[883] He said maybe three words to me. So you're going to have to do the heavy lifting.

[884] I go, okay, great.

[885] So I walk in the room.

[886] There's like a 14 -year -old kid in a wheelchair.

[887] he's like playing a game boy and he looks up and he goes oh chips no chips and i go oh my god you saw chips he goes i love chips the other guy's way better than you i promise you this just happened last week and i go oh yeah yeah michael pania yeah he's a much better actor than me and he goes yeah i love him when you tell him that i love him and i'm like actually i'm seeing him next week, I will tell him, you know.

[888] It was the greatest.

[889] He just went straight at, like, took my legs out.

[890] Oh, man. Dude, were you heartbroken going in?

[891] You know, um...

[892] Because now that you're a dad, right?

[893] Like, now I'm like, I get, I get, like, teary -eyed looking at a good Olympic commercial.

[894] Yeah, of course.

[895] You know what I mean?

[896] For the Olympics, I'm like, oh, somebody gave up so much.

[897] Oh, even like a Viaguer commercial with old people about to make love, I'm like, oh, one day maybe I'll do that wooden hot tub with Kristen.

[898] Um, you know, I went expecting to feel bad, right?

[899] And, and then when I get in there, of course, I'm like, I'm definitely cognizant of the fact like, oh, these, these parents are probably going to be spending Christmas in here.

[900] Right.

[901] But then I'm also hit with the fact that fear, fear is such a powerful thing.

[902] Like my fear of ending up there with my kid is a thousand, you know, it's as big as it could get.

[903] But then when you recognize in practice, which always happens with things you're afraid of, when you're walking through.

[904] life and you're experiencing these things that you're afraid of.

[905] When you're in them, you're just taking the next step and you're putting one foot in the front of the other and you're trying to smile through it and you're getting through it.

[906] And so I was kind of overwhelmed with like, you go into the room.

[907] Everyone's not sitting around feeling bad for themselves if they're sick.

[908] Like the parents are making jokes.

[909] The kids are making jokes.

[910] They're talking about fun stuff.

[911] And I was like, oh yeah, we are resilient motherfuckers.

[912] Like we were afraid of a lot of things.

[913] But when we get in them, you just keep marching.

[914] And I don't know.

[915] There's something about it that I found to be, it just gave me a ton of gratitude.

[916] And I weirdly, left me optimistic it was the opposite of what i thought yeah like i um my mom was sick growing up and so there was something that bad that happened to her and i was like by the time i'm like i think i was like it started when i was she was like i was like five years old from five to about the time that i moved out she would like two two times a month like you know the hot like calling the ambulance and blah blah and you know my my school work started suffering because we you know at first it was like oh i really want mom to be okay you know she'd ask attacks, diabetes, and all these different, you know, ailments.

[917] And she had like an autoimmune thing or?

[918] Well, you know, she got on some pills.

[919] Okay.

[920] Right.

[921] And she was suffering depressed.

[922] She got on some pills.

[923] But then, you know, I think she was on, I mean, she was on Prozac.

[924] And then, but she had a very bad doctor that was telling her, like, she was suffering through all these different kinds of side effects.

[925] And then we're giving more, more pills and more pills were soon enough that we had a daily regiment where it was a full drawer.

[926] Oh, boy.

[927] And it was like, you know, as a 12 -year -old kid, I was like, my mom's talking to the walls.

[928] I'm like, I don't, I don't know telling the...

[929] These don't seem to be helping.

[930] I was like, I don't think these are it.

[931] And they're like, no, you know what?

[932] She needs this.

[933] And then, right?

[934] Yeah.

[935] Anything for the insurance, right?

[936] Yeah.

[937] Anyway, so I was going to the hospital quite a bit.

[938] Mm -hmm.

[939] So in a bad way, I just kind of got used to it.

[940] Right, right.

[941] You know, you're like, okay, this is the life I'm going to lead.

[942] Okay, cool.

[943] So she was talking about when she was talking about different things in the wall or whatever, I was like, I'm going to roll with it, you know, which oddly enough kind of like, it's funny how like life helps you become, prepares you, to be an actor or to like, you know, a life of escape, you know, which is acting and pretending and, you know, trying to, you know, entertain people or whatnot is, is, you know, talking to my mom where she's, you know, talking about all these crazy things is I just decided to play with her and talk about these things.

[944] And then like, like, they were a real thing because that's real for her, right?

[945] And now I think, oddly enough, that that helped me. But at the end of the day, I was like, it was a story about hospitals.

[946] Right.

[947] And you just get used to them.

[948] And then you just try to, you know, try to do the best.

[949] Oh, yeah.

[950] Well, I've been on, you know, a couple different U .S .O tours.

[951] And I've been in Afghanistan where guys got killed and you sit on the flight line and they're bringing guys back in a helicopter.

[952] And you kind of look around at the other guys.

[953] And you go like, oh, yeah, you get used to anything.

[954] Right.

[955] You know, like you're kind of, you have this idea in a movie what that scene would look like and you're looking at the soldiers and you're like oh that's not they're not playing the part like you know this guy should be crying this guy should be leaning on this guy and then you're i don't know there's a certain reality to it that it doesn't play out that way yeah everyone's like yeah they've seen it a bunch of times exactly before we leave chips i know you want to but um but i just but i was in a scene with that's right yeah yeah you're you're nervous of course i did i was i was just trying to be nice and i was like hey you know you uh you know if you ever see a cat or anything like that.

[956] And then Dax comes in, he's like, oh, I like the rhythm.

[957] Oh, yes.

[958] There's a little rhythm.

[959] I'm like, what is that rhythm?

[960] Of course he picked up on any.

[961] You were giving her a little rhythm and I liked it.

[962] A little rhythm to me. I was trying to be nice.

[963] And I was like, is that rhythm?

[964] Well, he finds rhythm in most anything.

[965] I can see it.

[966] I can see rhythm.

[967] That's right.

[968] I've got like x -ray vision for rhythm.

[969] I saw a connection.

[970] That's somebody who's really thought about like whatever it is that you you were thinking about because you're like, ooh, I like that rhythm.

[971] I've never even heard that word towards that kind of dynamic.

[972] Well, you guys actually had so much rhythm that I remember I had to rain it in a little bit because the improv started, you guys were like making plans and it was all great.

[973] Yes, I don't remember that.

[974] He was like asking like what you're doing later and stuff.

[975] And then you were going to kind of swept up into his magic, his charm.

[976] And I was like, well, you're still pretty scared.

[977] You're shaking up.

[978] I know he's charming.

[979] Something else came online.

[980] There was some rhythm there.

[981] There was a rhythm nation going on.

[982] A lot of rhythm.

[983] And then my sister, too, she was a little intimidated working with you because you had a lot of scenes with my sister, too.

[984] She was so nice, by the way.

[985] She was really, really nice.

[986] I really liked working with her.

[987] Yeah, but you, it's funny because there's no way you ever go to yourself.

[988] Oh, I'm now the actor.

[989] People are nervous around.

[990] Exactly.

[991] I'm definitely not that guy.

[992] You definitely that guy.

[993] You were for me and Carly, I'm sure.

[994] 100%.

[995] That's so weird because I'm so, like, I'm not like, how can I say?

[996] I'm not like nervous, but I definitely have that performance energy.

[997] and so I have that going and I'm just trying to accomplish something so like I and and to me it's all about chemistry you know what I mean the back and forth and the real communication so I don't I guess I don't notice that well that's by the way I think this is where some people get in trouble with not knowing they're in a position of power because it's it's really weird you don't ever see yourself as being the person you used to look up to but you you are that person and you don't seem to have awareness of that way which is, again, how you could not even know what effect you're having on somebody.

[998] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[999] No, I definitely don't think of myself like that at all.

[1000] But it's a fact.

[1001] Well, the thing is that it's taking me like 17 years to like be a working actor.

[1002] You know, I've been at it for like over 20 years.

[1003] and so I know how hard it is and how hard it was to like even get to to be a working actor that I don't really focus I've never focused on like any of that kind of stuff and it's not real to me because right but you you've experienced it you've been on the other side of it though where it's like you you I mean let's fury well you know what this is crazy because um like you know remember I told you I worked with Bradley and I was like wow this is really cool what ignorance is bliss in the beginning because I was and I just needed some cash to live and I wanted to do good and I was like I had a checklist of things that I needed to do to to to be okay and it's the basics it's like talking listening substitution objective you know go blah blah did I hit it not quite as much and and I would grade myself on these things and so I was so busy into doing that that like oh this guy's famous cool cool cool cool, cool.

[1004] Oh, uh -huh.

[1005] Yeah, so I didn't, I was, I was too worried about my stuff so that I didn't notice this.

[1006] And now that I've been doing it for over 20 years, you know, I've seen somebody like Bradley, I was like, wow, he handles dialogue really well.

[1007] It comes so easy to him.

[1008] I'm like, you know, I ask him, he's like, it comes, he just reads it a couple times and he can, you know, say a bunch of dialogue and say it great.

[1009] Yeah.

[1010] Well, he has great diction.

[1011] Great diction.

[1012] The dude speaks French.

[1013] Yeah, he speaks French.

[1014] Fluently.

[1015] He just picked it up that guy.

[1016] Yeah, I know.

[1017] He's a savant.

[1018] He's, yeah.

[1019] Verbaly.

[1020] Yeah, verbal savant, yeah.

[1021] And then they fucking start singing out of nowhere and it's amazing.

[1022] Yeah, like, what can he not?

[1023] I know, yeah.

[1024] Probably a better question.

[1025] And so, I know.

[1026] If I boarded a flight to New York City at some point and I looked in the cockpit and he was flying, I go, yeah.

[1027] I'm sure he's like, he's filming a movie where he's going to be a pilot.

[1028] And I'd love it.

[1029] You wouldn't be surprised and you're like, hey, you know, Bradley, yeah, here again.

[1030] I'm sure you're going to land the shit out of this plane.

[1031] I guess I won't be nervous.

[1032] So now that I'm older, and I know how hard it is to make a good movie, now I appreciated tenfold.

[1033] You know what I mean?

[1034] Like, I did a movie with Kate Winslet, and she doesn't change anything, really.

[1035] She kind of plans it out.

[1036] She lives in the moment.

[1037] She makes some really strong choices, and that's what she does.

[1038] But she did it, and at the end of the day, I was like, wow, this is amazing.

[1039] Maybe I've been doing it wrong my entire life.

[1040] Uh -huh.

[1041] You know?

[1042] And so there's different people that, like, now, that's what, Now I'm starting to get a little bit nervous, oddly enough.

[1043] Well, I'm wondering.

[1044] Even though you're in that class, you have to have some recognition on that.

[1045] I disagree because I, you know, I get to star in some stuff, you know, but I'm just so eager to be in a good story, like in a good movie.

[1046] Yeah, but dude, when you're in American Hustle and you're like, Christian Bale's just, I mean, how can someone be as good as that guy is?

[1047] Everyone in that movie is just crushing Amy Adams is.

[1048] And if you walk in, by the way, what you do is harder, I think.

[1049] I'm way worse when I have very little to do.

[1050] Oh, when you're a A player, dude?

[1051] Oh, I was so, I used to be so nervous because, like you said, like, I would, I would have no rhythm.

[1052] Not rhythm like we had, but yeah, you got to get, you can't even get it going.

[1053] You can't even get into gear.

[1054] Yeah, and like your memory, like, you know, after, when you're doing a TV show, right, I asked you about it.

[1055] You're in your, like, after two months, you're like, you just wake up and, and, you're, You know, you memorize your lines and, you know, in the morning.

[1056] In the makeup trailer sometimes, yeah.

[1057] I'm like, no, not me. I memorize them three months before we even have to shoot.

[1058] Yeah, yeah.

[1059] You know?

[1060] Well, it shows in your acting.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] But, hey, look, we're all doing well.

[1063] There's a lot of different ways to skin this cat.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] But so you, you admit that you, you, well, there's a couple of things.

[1066] Not in the beginning, but now I do like, well, I'm like, wow, this person.

[1067] But you have a, you have a healthy, you have had at least in the past a healthy chip on your shoulder right a chip on my shoulder yeah you would you say you have a chip on you had a chip on my shoulder i think i did because it's um and it was all based on insecurity which is really weird it's because i'm like i never felt that was good enough you know what i mean i never felt like i was i was good looking enough i was charming enough and then and then now when i meet somebody that's really charming i was like oh man i can i know like i can't compete i'm like this person's obviously like a beautiful person you know i'm like i can't compete you know i'm like i can't compete like, oh, this person's funnier.

[1068] I'm like, man, okay, I'm just going to take second place and be fine with it.

[1069] And then it sucks when you're starting in something, and you're like...

[1070] You've got to be the dude.

[1071] And then you're like, oh, God, I'm going to take second place even though I'm starring in it.

[1072] But you and I have some parallels, which is we both love to party hard in our younger years here in Los Angeles.

[1073] And probably, I think, rooted in some of the same, like, just need to be.

[1074] relief from the frustration of what an uphill slog?

[1075] Yeah, well, my life was just not good.

[1076] So I battled boredom too, man, because when you're, it was so depressing to try, you know, I had roommates, Caucasian roommates, and they would go to me for acting advice, you know what I mean?

[1077] And they would run lines.

[1078] I'm like, what do you think I should do here or there?

[1079] And they're auditioning for like the, you know, starring roles and this.

[1080] and I would call my, you know, agent and manager and say, hey, is there, you know, is there any way that, no, they're not looking, they're looking for Caucasian now.

[1081] I'm like, oh, it was such a bummer that it was depressing.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] And I did it mainly out of boredom.

[1084] But you like drugs, right?

[1085] We both like drugs a lot.

[1086] Yeah, I mean, but it was mainly like, like, it was hard drugs, like early on.

[1087] Like what age?

[1088] I think I started when I was 13.

[1089] Oh, okay.

[1090] 13, something like that.

[1091] Like, you know, like all that.

[1092] ecstasy stuff, you know, doing hard drugs.

[1093] And again, it was like out of loneliness, you know, mainly like, I guess my biggest, my biggest thing was like, boredom, I think is the biggest evil for me, you know, and then smoking weed on my own and something that I really regret because I did it too much and then I, like, I got anxiety from it.

[1094] I never, I never had anxiety ever.

[1095] I never got nervous for anything in my life.

[1096] And then one day, it just showed up.

[1097] And it was like after smoking so much weed and drinking and frying my, you know, frying my nerves or whatnot.

[1098] Uh -huh.

[1099] And that's why I was like, you know what?

[1100] I'm done.

[1101] I'm okay.

[1102] Right.

[1103] I've done it enough.

[1104] That's fine.

[1105] How old's Roman now?

[1106] He's 10 years old.

[1107] He's 10 years old.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] And is it awesome?

[1110] It's the best, but now he's becoming his own person where, like, you know, normally they're, like, asking you, like, advice and, you know, and, you know, daddy, can you help me with this and help me with that.

[1111] And now he's just becoming his own person where, like, he's having play day.

[1112] with his friends where he doesn't need you very much and Minecraft and Fortnite and all this shit you know and but he's he's an avid reader yeah you said this about him which is so cute that he's a nerd by just innately right he fucking loves books because he reads like a thousand pages he can read a thousand pages a week oh that's bonker dude yeah and he's really I've been around him he's he's really cute and he's shy a little bit yeah a little bit of which I think is, I think is really cool.

[1113] And, you know, he's growing up a little bit differently than I was raised.

[1114] Like, I was trying, my dad was trying to make me to us a macho man. Yeah.

[1115] But we had to, like, fight in our neighborhood.

[1116] And if not, you'd get your ass kicked even more.

[1117] So it was out of necessity.

[1118] And him, I definitely want to keep that, that shyness, you know, like that, and well, you don't have to be a tough guy.

[1119] You don't have to prepare him for a shitty world.

[1120] Yeah, exactly.

[1121] But, I mean, you have to be real with them because it's hard out there.

[1122] Yeah.

[1123] It's not that easy.

[1124] But it is interesting because I think you and I are of the generation that we're in a transitional phase where we're going to not teach our kids some of the stuff we were taught, which is appropriate.

[1125] The world's gotten a lot safer.

[1126] He doesn't live where you did.

[1127] He doesn't live where I lived.

[1128] You know, it's...

[1129] I'm just trying to guide the kid, you know what I mean?

[1130] And talk to him like, I guess like the crash way, like the, you know, like a person.

[1131] You know what I mean?

[1132] And so it's a lot harder and it takes more time to talk to, like, talk to him and why things are not a great idea to do.

[1133] You know what I mean?

[1134] Really explain it to him and have a conversation.

[1135] It's much easier to be like, don't do that.

[1136] Right.

[1137] Just don't do it.

[1138] Yeah.

[1139] And, yeah.

[1140] And if he says something, you punch him in the fucking nose, guy who hits first is going to win.

[1141] That's what you do tomorrow Monday, all right?

[1142] You're going to punch him in the nose.

[1143] But I am a firm believer in that, like, especially when you're a guy.

[1144] kid growing up in the ghetto like my dad taught me to like if you're gonna even if you're gonna get your ass kicked make sure that you hit them in the nose as hard as you can right well it's great advice back then it really is even if you which i did get my ass kicked a couple times i'm like but if you don't like i lived in a shitty neighborhood if you didn't stick stick up for yourself it was like it's gonna happen every single they were like a were like a werewolf you know and you're like oh i can i can pick on this kid forever so i remember it was in third grade i moved to this new, it was like St. Casber.

[1145] And there was some dude that was like 13 years old in third grade.

[1146] I was like, come on, what's going on here?

[1147] And we got into a fight, and I just hit him in the nose as hard as I could.

[1148] And then he never picked on me again, even though he beat the shit out of me. Sometimes Monica and I argue about this, and I try to explain to her growing up that passivism was not an option for me. Well, no, not where we grew up, man. It's totally different.

[1149] either, you know, it's just going to happen every fucking day if you didn't do something.

[1150] What's that paper, dude?

[1151] This is the list of the many amazing things you've been in.

[1152] And I just want to touch down on a couple of them.

[1153] Okay.

[1154] This isn't going to flatter you a lot and you're going to be uncomfortable and it's going to be great for me. It's going to be great for you.

[1155] I love it.

[1156] All right.

[1157] So I'm just going to walk you through.

[1158] This is going to be the Reader's Digest version of the ride that Pena takes.

[1159] So he does crash.

[1160] We already talked about that.

[1161] He's amazing.

[1162] Then you do a million -dollar baby.

[1163] What was it like working with Clint?

[1164] Oh, man, it was awesome.

[1165] It was awesome.

[1166] But, again, I was so naive.

[1167] I got to imagine, though, knowing the way you work.

[1168] The last thing Clint Eastwood wants to do is answer questions.

[1169] He wants to fucking shoot that scene and get to lunch.

[1170] Right.

[1171] Does he want to talk for a long time about...

[1172] Well, he's not the writer.

[1173] He's a director.

[1174] Okay.

[1175] You know what I mean?

[1176] Okay.

[1177] And plus, I have a, you know, have like a small part in that movie.

[1178] Right.

[1179] So I, you know, but I don't always do.

[1180] that, by the way.

[1181] I don't always like rehearse, rehearse, rehearse.

[1182] There's some that you just want to, you know, get in there and start in there and start with your instincts or whatever.

[1183] And I keep those instincts, but then I think it's much cooler when you get into deeper.

[1184] It's weird.

[1185] You've not really been bad, which is frustrating.

[1186] Like, it was like, go through all these movies.

[1187] You're kind of fantastic in all of them.

[1188] You think you've shit the bed on a movie?

[1189] Is there one you can think of there?

[1190] You're like, I sucked in that.

[1191] Well, I remember I got Felicity.

[1192] I did Felicity.

[1193] The TV show.

[1194] Yeah, and that was in 2000, and it was one of the, like, this is when I started getting excited for acting, because before I just did it for the money.

[1195] I'm like, I just want to get paid, you know, especially a kid from the ghetto.

[1196] And I was like, oh, dude, I can make like five figures.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] This is sweet.

[1199] And so, yeah, exactly.

[1200] So in Felicity, I, you know, I had a great audition.

[1201] And it was, you know, my part was humorous, you know, had some comedy to it.

[1202] whatever.

[1203] I sucked so bad when we started filming it.

[1204] I remember the first day we, you know, we were filming.

[1205] We did like 60 takes on like a scene where like, oh man, we really needed to go going again.

[1206] I'm like, I don't even know what these people want because I didn't know what I was doing man. Comedy's so hard, dude.

[1207] And I did not know what I was doing.

[1208] And so I definitely sucked in that show.

[1209] Yeah, but you haven't had a movie where you're like, I just didn't.

[1210] I didn't pull it out um or maybe you tried something that maybe didn't translate do you ever gone down the wrong path no no i and i don't think i did like you know for instance like i wish that like um i wish i was better in some of them like in caesar chavez for instance i thought i thought i think i could have done more research and gotten a little bit more personal with with the feeling of because my parents were farmers in Mexico um i i thought maybe i could have done a little better on that one that's a i mean i can't really even think of the comparison of what role could get offered to me where i would just be like oh man i got to be perfect i mean for you to play caesar chavez it was tough because he was not like a you know i talked to diego luna about it who directed and he's like this is this guy is not like a charismatic guy he doesn't he's not really great a great speaker you know but he definitely was motivated and you know he got something accomplished and he had like the mass is speaking to i mean like listening to him and he was not a charismatic speaker i was like how the hell we're going to do that dude yeah who wants to watch a movie about a guy who's not a charismatic speaker i was like what the i was like oh man what am i going to do so i was kind of stuck with that idea so that's one of them yeah i god bless you for even taking that on Um, you do a shooter with Walberg.

[1211] Yeah, that was fun.

[1212] Was that intimidating?

[1213] No. No. Good for you.

[1214] I was, um, I don't know.

[1215] I guess it was just, you know.

[1216] Well, he likes you.

[1217] We ran into him at the Super Bowl and he seemed to really have a lot of hugs for you.

[1218] Yeah, he's a great guy.

[1219] Yeah.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] I, um, he's, I remember the, the one thing that I do remember from shooting that thing is that, like, he took me to a country club, golfing.

[1222] Oh, right.

[1223] Because I golfed like Griffith Park and all these shitty tracks.

[1224] and then I went to this place where it was like majestic like everything was perfect and I had never been to a golf course like that well this is one of your few indulgences because you live very modestly in fact when I was picking you up to do sometimes I'd pick you up to do rehearsal because I live by you and I pick you up in an apartment I'm like this guy's keeping it fucking real as hell he's up there living an apartment It's not my design baby I'm brown dude man I don't get paid as much as you know what I mean and that's a thing dude I remember I looked, I looked myself up on Google to see the net worth.

[1225] Oh, uh -huh.

[1226] They had me at like $12 million.

[1227] I was like, you got to be shit.

[1228] What is going on here?

[1229] They think that you're super rich.

[1230] Oh, I know.

[1231] Well, I had the similar experience where my mom, like, I don't know, seven Christmases ago was like explaining, you know, net worth the website, how she saw it on like the daily show.

[1232] And she keeps talking about it.

[1233] And all of a sudden it occurs to me, I'm like, did you put my name in there?

[1234] Like, of course, if she's that obsessed with it.

[1235] She goes, yeah.

[1236] And I go, what did say I was worth?

[1237] She's like, 10 million?

[1238] And I go, oh, really?

[1239] Do you put Kristen in there?

[1240] She's like, yeah.

[1241] What did it say?

[1242] She was worth 10 million.

[1243] I go, so you think we're worth 20 million and we haven't, like, bought you a brand new car?

[1244] Like, it just made me think like, oh, my, they must think I'm a fucking asshole.

[1245] I know, dude.

[1246] Yeah, exactly.

[1247] But, so you did observe and report, which is really the first kind of big comedy swing you take.

[1248] I think that was the only comedy swing that I took.

[1249] and I was so nervous.

[1250] Were you?

[1251] But it was so weird to be nervous but have fun at the same time.

[1252] And I auditioned for Jody Hill, who directed that movie and knowing that like Seth Rogen, you know, who I think is awesome.

[1253] I was going to be in that movie.

[1254] I was like, oh, man, this is really nerve -wracking.

[1255] And I came up with this character.

[1256] I don't know, but I, you know, I grew up like in Black Church.

[1257] Show Monica how your character talks.

[1258] I love it.

[1259] Yeah, so I'm like, I grew up, like, I was the only Mexican dude in a all black choir.

[1260] You know, not the only, but I was like one of very few.

[1261] And so, like, I, you know, I remember I saw this, the way I got these characters, I saw this documentary about pimps.

[1262] And basically, like, you know, the camera pans up and you see dress shoes, but it's a bed.

[1263] So the dress shoes are on a bed and they're dirty.

[1264] Okay.

[1265] And then, you know, it keeps panning up and it's this dude, like, wearing a red shoe.

[1266] suit with two prostitutes on the side of them you know one of them's doing their nails or whatever and the the documentaries is just totally I guess that's how you said he's totally like just setting this guy up and he's like hey brother man you got to tell me man what's the secret to pimp and the dude just looks at him he's like man you got to love your bitches and I remember it was on VHS and I'm like you got to love your bitch and I'm like and I'm like and I can't I was like, oh, man, and I, and I kept rehearsing that on my own, like a character like that.

[1267] Like, what would they, you know, how would this person sound or whatever?

[1268] And finally, that audition came up.

[1269] And they were wanting an Eminem kind of guy, so like a white guy who was acting street.

[1270] And I said, well, I'm like, I'm just going to try it, man. Yeah.

[1271] And I remember I purmed my hair, gained like 20 pounds.

[1272] People love you in that movie.

[1273] The whole time we were working together, people were constantly coming up to you.

[1274] College kids love that movie.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] It's a very polarizing movie because you either like it and really, really love it or you absolutely hate it.

[1277] Oh, some people hated it?

[1278] Some people would absolutely hate that movie.

[1279] What did they hate about it?

[1280] Because it's so dark.

[1281] Oh.

[1282] And I think maybe they had the expectation of like Seth Rogen being like that lovable guy, you know, so like...

[1283] It gets tricky.

[1284] Like you're...

[1285] Yeah, when you get so big, you can kind of trump the thing you're in.

[1286] And even if it's good, right?

[1287] Even if you go to, like, you know, like, I used to love McDonald's.

[1288] I can't eat McDonald's anymore.

[1289] But if you go to McDonald's and you want a filial fish, right?

[1290] And then they give you a Big Mac.

[1291] You know, instead you're like, it's big Macs are fantastic.

[1292] Yeah, on their own.

[1293] Or a whopper.

[1294] Or specifically a whopper, right?

[1295] Because it's from Burger King.

[1296] And then you're like, fuck this whopper.

[1297] I want a goddamn filial fish, dude.

[1298] Right.

[1299] I think that's the way, you know, some fans might think of it.

[1300] And you, so based on this.

[1301] Is that how you ended up on e -spown and down?

[1302] Yeah, I think so, yeah.

[1303] Because Jody directed a bunch of those, right?

[1304] Or if not all of them.

[1305] Yeah, but I always imitate somebody.

[1306] Yes, this is like your thing.

[1307] And you, in fact, were telling me you were imitating me. In chips.

[1308] Yeah.

[1309] I found that to be so bizarre and interesting, because I don't think I'm imitatable, but.

[1310] Yeah, but like, no, there's certain ways, the way that you set up certain phrases that I used, because I'm like, how am I going to say this?

[1311] And you're like, oh, oh, um, you do that.

[1312] Oh, oh, I know, I know.

[1313] Like that vibe, whatever that is.

[1314] Yeah.

[1315] And to me, like, for instance, like, in end of watch, I was imitating my brother.

[1316] Oh, uh -huh.

[1317] Because that's the way he is.

[1318] Like, he's a really charismatic dude, and he has his way of talking.

[1319] Yeah.

[1320] And then he's not afraid to get deep on you sometimes, you know, and I'm more reserved than that.

[1321] Yeah.

[1322] That one I...

[1323] He came to the screening.

[1324] of chips in Chicago, Monica, and he brought like 35 people or so.

[1325] And the questions they were asking in the Q &A were just to fuck with us.

[1326] They were like...

[1327] They were like a bunch of drunk cops.

[1328] Yeah.

[1329] I'm like, hey, hey, uh, a, uh, a, a Max, uh, you know what I'm gonna fucking like man?

[1330] I like Mike in the fucking movie.

[1331] What'd you think of Mike?

[1332] He was very good.

[1333] And like, you know, they would say shit like that.

[1334] There's a whole section all of a sudden I realized.

[1335] Oh, they're all together.

[1336] Oh, that's, that's pain your brother.

[1337] purpose they were just asking you questions to make you feel like an asshole I'm like these fucking dudes man your brother Mike Mike Mike Mike I gotta fucking tell you Mike I don't like it you don't like crash it's like Mike too much fucking talking like he liked yeah and I remember he liked chips which is a huge feather in our cap because he doesn't really like money of the movies you're in no no he's he's that guy and he's like quoting jokes that I forgot we told right yeah oh this is the one people would be so mad if I didn't bring it up which was Ant Man oh so good right which you I mean you really I hate using the word stolen movie but boy oh boy did you fucking did you just come on a left field well that one I was imitating this dude Pablo who had who has a weird way of talking and he's so positive and I remember I remember, this true story, I swear.

[1338] I'm like, I remember one time coming home and I was like, hey man, what did you do this week?

[1339] And he's like, I went to jail, dog.

[1340] A smile.

[1341] You know, I was like, for real?

[1342] And he's like, yeah, dog, I want to fuck a jail, honey.

[1343] And it's like, always grabbing the thing.

[1344] You know what I mean?

[1345] I went to jail, die, da, that's what I'm saying, you know what I'm saying?

[1346] That's what I'm saying?

[1347] You know what I'm like, what a weird way of talking?

[1348] He's like, hey, you know what, man?

[1349] I fuck with that, dog.

[1350] I fuck with that movie where you saw yourself.

[1351] I'm like, sold myself.

[1352] And he's like, yeah, nah, you were selling yourself.

[1353] And I'm like, what?

[1354] And he's like, star maps.

[1355] I'm like, apparently like, prostitution.

[1356] But dude, I didn't even know I was doing that, dude.

[1357] It was just a gig.

[1358] And they needed some scenes.

[1359] And I'm like, oh, I can do this.

[1360] I'm like, got into some dude's car.

[1361] I'm like, I didn't know I was doing it.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] He's like, yeah, I fuck with that.

[1364] I fuck with that.

[1365] You know, we go.

[1366] Yeah.

[1367] And so that's another one that I was just obsessed with.

[1368] that guy yeah because um i i just get obsessed with you kind of like collect people right just a thing that me and my brother do my brother's a fantastic mimic one of one of the first mimics uh that did and i think it was because of lack of vocabulary to be honest uh my brother would come in and and talk to me about stories of he's a great storyteller about high school oh sure the big time getting these big cookies and then like you know he has this white girlfriend i'm like what's her name, dude.

[1369] And he's like, Pam.

[1370] I'm like, dude, that's so exotic.

[1371] Wow.

[1372] It's so exotic.

[1373] To us, it was exotic, baby.

[1374] You know what I mean?

[1375] Oh, that was one of our many conversations during rehearsal is like, what's your type?

[1376] And you and I are like, my type is you and your type is me. You and the white girl with blonde hair.

[1377] Yeah.

[1378] I went like 4 -11 olive skin.

[1379] Yeah, 4 -11 olive skin.

[1380] Yeah, I remember like, you know, when I did say Pam, it was a, I went, this is when I first went to Marist High School, I was like, I still had an accent, and I don't know where that accent went, but I remember saying to my buddy, I'm like, hey, but what, what's that girl's name right there?

[1381] You know, the exotic one.

[1382] He's like, which one's that one?

[1383] Like, the one with the pink backpack, like, what's her name?

[1384] Who, Pam?

[1385] Wow.

[1386] I'm thinking to myself, what an exotic name.

[1387] Pam.

[1388] The name of a cooking spray.

[1389] But to me, I was like, I was like, that's like, that's like names, like, straight up from, like, from like TV you know what I mean like those does they use the names on TV and stuff like that like what is she a host was cheerleader you know what I mean that's like exactly Pam but but imagine like what the most bland name you could ever have right sorry to our Pam but to me but to me like Alejandra yeah you know Monica you're talking you know what he says it Diana I'm like hey Diana and then you know Diana would be like oh you know what she liked it you but you fucked up you know she liked it at you and I'm like oh well fuck that shit why he's like you with your fucking white girls you know that's never been sad but like if you've if you had a um a uh a uh a Latina girlfriend yeah uh Nikki Martino was half Mexican and then uh yeah I mean like there were there were like halfies okay I mean I'm married to like she's like she's as white as it gets her fucking name is Brie yeah yeah she's pretty white oh yeah she's very beautiful very smart yeah super smart she doesn't take much shit right no we need yeah exactly she's all around great girl man yeah my best friend yeah she's awesome um well i want to ask really quick um your dad your mom and they were married through most of all that right are they still they're not still married no my mom passed away when i was a kid i mean not when i was kid when i was like now i feel absolutely no don't worry about it man it was it was like in my early 20s right yeah then did your dad your dad lives in mexico my my dad goes back and forth like but he lives with his italian girlfriend oh is he pumped that you're a movie star um i'm not a movie star i'm a working actor okay well imagine if you're down in mexico in cicero you would you would label what you're doing as a movie star um i don't know it's it's That's so weird.

[1390] I definitely don't think of myself that way, but I appreciate it.

[1391] But the dad must.

[1392] No, the dad, the dad doesn't watch a lot of stuff of mine.

[1393] Okay, but is he, is like, what's his relationship with you doing this?

[1394] Is it mind -blown?

[1395] I mean, if he left Mexico as a farmer and went to Chicago in the 70s, and his son now is in a movie with Brad Pitt, is it not blow his mind or he doesn't get a shit?

[1396] Not really, because he, you know, because he had to work so much, we're not, like, super tight.

[1397] Okay.

[1398] So, you know, he's never been to Los Angeles to come visit me. He hasn't.

[1399] Never, dude, in 23 or 4 years.

[1400] Is that not heartbreaking?

[1401] That would make me sad.

[1402] It is, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles, man. You know what I mean?

[1403] I basically was, I mean, I was, you know, raising myself or whatever, like, you know, when I was a teenager.

[1404] Do you think there's different cultural expectations of, like, what relationship someone who was born in Mexico and came here?

[1405] You think there's like a different bar he feels like he has to hit?

[1406] Yeah, I mean, he was just meant to support.

[1407] Right.

[1408] You know, and.

[1409] Monika and I were just talking about this.

[1410] He thought that that was his job, which he did a great job.

[1411] In the 70s, it was kind of your job.

[1412] It was kind of your job.

[1413] Yeah, exactly.

[1414] And so he's supported.

[1415] And now I've kind of like, in a weird way, forgiven him for not being there, you know.

[1416] And now we're kind of becoming more friends.

[1417] And to be honest, it's a little forced.

[1418] Sure.

[1419] You know, because I got to call him up and whatever.

[1420] Like, he's seen my kid maybe three times or whatever.

[1421] But that's just, you know, like sometimes life just is like that.

[1422] And you just got to take it.

[1423] I'm like, and so I have a good friend, you know, that paid for me to be where I'm at right now.

[1424] That's a very healthy, evolved viewpoint.

[1425] I had a lot of dad issues and things that I was resentful at him about.

[1426] I was not that graceful.

[1427] Oh, really?

[1428] No. I was like, why can't you be the fucking guy and want you to be?

[1429] I deserve this But also I was such a loner And like acting like as you know Like you know like comedy or whatever Like you know like it's Well comedy both of you guys now You know doing this is it can be lonely And you have to like At the end of the day it's like You want to be good The only person that's like you can go to an acting class You can do whatever But literally you just have to work on yourself Yeah but you've had this incredible ride And don't you want your dad dad to say, oh, my God, I'm so proud of you and blown away by what you've accomplished.

[1430] I don't, I guess I don't really need it, you know?

[1431] Okay.

[1432] Like I, you know, when people like my work, I'm like, that's really cool.

[1433] More, for me, I'm like, how can I do something different?

[1434] How can I make the game for me exciting?

[1435] You know what I mean?

[1436] Like, I still, I'm still getting better, you know, like I'm like going to work with a vocal coach now to like work on my diction and that's going to take me a year or two right you love learning yeah that's the thing too like i do like you get obsessed with them and you just start going down a rabbit hole yeah i wouldn't say a rabbit hole but i do like learn well i'm gonna say a rabbit hole oh you are yeah okay narcos yeah that's what you're in right now yeah that's what i'm in right now and it's i was really nervous doing that um you know to do that project because In my mind, like the DEA wasn't like the, like the DEA portion of it, wasn't like the strongest portion for me. Well, that first season, the dude who played Pablo Estabar.

[1437] Took everybody by storm.

[1438] Oh, my God, was he amazing.

[1439] Oh, he was so good.

[1440] The pilot of the first season of Narcos is the, I think, the best pilot I've ever seen in my life.

[1441] It's mind -blown.

[1442] I remember watching it and thinking, wow, this is almost, they captured Latin America better than most movies.

[1443] movies.

[1444] Oh, 100%.

[1445] I could not believe how good this was.

[1446] The richness, the color.

[1447] You can feel the humidity.

[1448] The humidity, that stuff.

[1449] Because, you know, when you're doing movies, they don't want you to sweat or whatever, or they put on that fake sweat.

[1450] Right, right.

[1451] Heaven forbid you're actually sweating.

[1452] Yeah, exactly.

[1453] And then, like, you have the salt stain on your shirt.

[1454] You know what I mean?

[1455] Where you're like, oh, that's a real shirt.

[1456] And however they're doing it.

[1457] And I had met Eric Newman, who was a showrunner of that show.

[1458] And he's like, you know, we're thinking about it.

[1459] about Kiki Camarena.

[1460] And I read his, you know, his bio on Wikipedia.

[1461] Uh -huh, sure.

[1462] And then Time Magazine, and I thought, wow, this is really amazing.

[1463] So you're playing a real -life, D -E -A agent.

[1464] Yeah, exactly, who had a chip on a shoulder and was very stubborn in the way that he wrote.

[1465] And you know what?

[1466] Oddly enough, I thought I'm like, man, as an actor, I think innately, even if you're doing a drama or whatever, you're like, I hope people like what I'm doing.

[1467] I hope people like the character that I'm doing.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] And then while we were filming, I was like, you know what?

[1470] I'm going to play it like this guy who, if they don't like me, fine, as long as they respect me, which was a big thing for me. Because I, you know, you want to add some humor.

[1471] You want to have some things like some, you know, like pet the dog kind of thing.

[1472] Oh, yeah.

[1473] You know, you pet a dog in a movie?

[1474] Forget about it.

[1475] They fall in love.

[1476] Oh, I didn't know that trick.

[1477] I got to get some dogs in my shit.

[1478] Yeah, you got to get some dogs up with your shit, dude.

[1479] Yeah, first scene is just me scratching a dog's belly and then I can like hit.

[1480] You're like, oh, forget about it, dude.

[1481] Like, say you're playing an assassin, but you're giving your little poodle like a bath.

[1482] Oh, yeah.

[1483] Scrubbing it.

[1484] Oh, my God.

[1485] You're like, all the dog lovers are going to be like, I fucking love that.

[1486] Like, you're actually bathing the dog of the woman you're cheating on your wife with.

[1487] But it just all gets neutralized.

[1488] Yeah, and then you have to kill her, you know, right?

[1489] Watch the dog.

[1490] And you take the dog with you.

[1491] Oh, then you realize that you're washing the blood off the dog.

[1492] That's right.

[1493] That's what it occurs to you.

[1494] But Monica and I watched the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the dog.

[1495] the first episode of this season.

[1496] I haven't got it further yet.

[1497] And it's totally great.

[1498] It starts cooking in three because the first two are always establishing episodes.

[1499] But all I was going to say is it's totally good.

[1500] And then soon as Mike Pena gets on the screen, you're like, oh, oh, okay, now I'm fucking paying attention.

[1501] That's not a dig on anyone else.

[1502] But you are predictably as you always are like fucking electric.

[1503] You're so good.

[1504] I appreciate it.

[1505] It's pretty bonkers how good you are.

[1506] Dude, I kid in the wheelchair was dead right.

[1507] You were much better than me. I can't wait for you guys to watch it, like, and get into it.

[1508] Like, you got to get into, like, three is really amazing.

[1509] It's shot like a movie.

[1510] Yeah, I'm definitely, you know, I'm going the whole way.

[1511] But you shot in Mexico City?

[1512] Yeah, and you know what?

[1513] My parents were, oddly enough, my parents are Mexican, and I consider myself like a Mexican -American.

[1514] And when I got there, what's so funny is that they think you're like, you're an American.

[1515] Well, you've said, It was so funny because I just assumed, oh, you speak Spanish, you're Latino, they love you.

[1516] This was even when we went down and did those Latin TV shows.

[1517] You're like, no, I don't get a pass.

[1518] They think I'm a fucking American with a bad accent.

[1519] Yeah.

[1520] They can tell that I have an American accent, even though I spoke Spanish first.

[1521] Right.

[1522] Yeah, so they can tell when you're like born from a Latin country and because you speak Spanish so quickly.

[1523] Oh, the people who speak it, right.

[1524] You know, all the small words that, like, and you can fully express yourself.

[1525] And then as soon as I speak Spanish, and I think I did a pretty good job, they're like, you're American, no?

[1526] American.

[1527] Yeah, Americana.

[1528] Like the coffee?

[1529] Uh -huh.

[1530] Well, that, by the way, what a shit deal where you're not as a key, you're not fully accepted here.

[1531] Then you think, well, at least I got my, if I go to Mexico, that'll be embrac.

[1532] race with open arms and you're like a man without a country in a weird way there should there should be a movie about that like in limbo or something yeah right yeah yeah that i found that depressing that you weren't like i assumed you were celebrated by all mexicans no no not at all i'm like oddly enough you know you know what's really famous there is like all the soap opera actors yeah those guys crush they love their soaps there right they i mean here's the thing i remember growing up and and we at 6 o 'clock every day we would watch Cristal, you know, which was a telenovela, and we would get it into it so bad.

[1533] Like, we thought that was some of the best acting of all time.

[1534] It's just as good as good fellas.

[1535] On the waterfront.

[1536] On the waterfront, this guy needs to pump it up a little bit.

[1537] This is not what Cristal would do.

[1538] Is this guy mumbling?

[1539] What's he doing?

[1540] This guy mumbling, in other words, a passion, baby.

[1541] Grab that woman firmly by the shoulders and shake her while you're talking to it.

[1542] Dude, I remember, like, there was, like, some stupid, like, plot lines.

[1543] Like, you know, like, this woman was mad at this other woman.

[1544] And I remember that she threw, like, like, battery acid at her.

[1545] Okay.

[1546] And then there was, like, smoke.

[1547] Yeah.

[1548] There was smoke.

[1549] And I'm like, Mom, can that really happen?

[1550] She's like, uh -huh.

[1551] You know, and we're like, dude, you got to be aware of battery acid now.

[1552] And there was all these crazy things that happened in television novellas that we really believed can happen.

[1553] Sure, sure.

[1554] Were you nervous at all working in Mexico City?

[1555] I feel like I would be a little nervous.

[1556] I was.

[1557] I've succumbed to these like I have a fear of kidnapping or something.

[1558] I've bought into that.

[1559] Sequesteros.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] Well, it didn't help like that like the location manager got killed.

[1562] That is not helpful.

[1563] Oh, wow.

[1564] But that was in Columbia, right?

[1565] No, no, no. That was in Mexico.

[1566] Oh, it was?

[1567] Tragedy, man. And it's awful.

[1568] Yes.

[1569] They beefed up the security.

[1570] And so that was a good thing that they did that because um yeah like when you drove to set did you were you with security and stuff i was with a bodyguard and i was with an assistant and i was with a driver okay a specific driver uh -huh who could get out of shit yeah who can who can definitely weave in and out um and i would have loved to have been your driver down there yeah oh man dude remember the first time dude i think we did oh we did the promo for chips guy picks me up in like a station wagon i'm like what is this dude and it it was so fucking fast yeah and he wanted to make me make it known how fast this son of a bitch is and sounds familiar yeah he wanted to get a rise out of me and he got it he ran through a stop sign he's like no those are just suggestions roll -throughs yeah i've heard that many times those are merely suggestions i was like we got to fucking Santa Monica in 12 minutes.

[1571] I was like, how the hell did this happen?

[1572] He knows like the lights that you're allowed to drive through, like red lights you can drive through and not get arrested.

[1573] He knows all of them.

[1574] Yeah, he knows all of them, which maybe shouldn't be said.

[1575] But I was the inner monologue was like, this motherfucker.

[1576] He's trying to kill me. I'm like, white privilege.

[1577] White privilege.

[1578] Amen.

[1579] So Narcos Mexico is out now.

[1580] Yeah, Diego Luna crushes, man. He's a beast, right?

[1581] Dude, and, like, I didn't know how big of a star this guy was, but, like, women absolutely adore this guy.

[1582] Yeah, he's very sexy.

[1583] Do you think he's sexy, Monica?

[1584] I don't know.

[1585] Okay, you're not sure who he is.

[1586] Yeah, I'm unsure, but I'd like to see a picture so I can wait.

[1587] Well, he was in that famous, he was in that movie, E2 Mamatambien.

[1588] Is it?

[1589] he was one of the two young sexy boys but they're both good looking dudes let's confirm they're both good they're both hot as hell okay and sexy and they have great rhythm oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I do recognize him and yes of course god you know what I'm like I'm taking like I'm a little chubby right now and I'm taking pictures with this guy and then you can see you're like wow this guy's just clearly much better looking than I am you know what I mean no well let's just we I we could both agree that there's no way diega luna is on a podcast somewhere and he said no michael pania or dac shepherd then showed someone a picture and that person went oh yeah i would love that's not true that's not true that's not safe to assume that no one's ever held up a picture of either of us and someone like oh yeah oh well michael pania um i had such a fun life experience with you i mean we had a full year together and it was so fun that's right And I'm on the other side of all the heartbreak of the experience.

[1590] But there were just so many moments where, like, we went to that test.

[1591] We tested at 91 or whatever it was.

[1592] That was amazing.

[1593] What a night we had.

[1594] Yeah.

[1595] People were partying.

[1596] We opened up against Beauty and the Beast.

[1597] That was gross.

[1598] That's a great idea.

[1599] We're doing what?

[1600] Dude, I thought, by the way, people thought that that movie was going to make 40 million.

[1601] And then it makes 200 million.

[1602] Yeah.

[1603] And then it's literally, it's.

[1604] that movie got a little rapy on our movie.

[1605] Yeah, yeah.

[1606] Because it was...

[1607] Little handsy.

[1608] Little handsy because it was...

[1609] Dude, that movie took overperformed was the...

[1610] The, uh...

[1611] Not the meat and mutative...

[1612] Yeah, what was that show?

[1613] Power Rangers.

[1614] Came out swinging.

[1615] That one came out swinging like those...

[1616] So literally...

[1617] It was unbelievable, man. Like that, those movies made so much money.

[1618] Yeah.

[1619] And it took every demographic, and it was just tough to go against those guys.

[1620] But the life experience was really fantastic.

[1621] Oh, it was great.

[1622] I loved it, man. And if that had been a gigantic hit, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you.

[1623] I'd be in Mexico City with security detail directing something.

[1624] I'm grateful.

[1625] But you're crushing now.

[1626] I'm happy as hell.

[1627] Yeah, right on.

[1628] And I love you.

[1629] And I hope you'll come back in here when you promote one of the numerous movies that you're a part of.

[1630] And I adore you.

[1631] Awesome.

[1632] Same here, bro.

[1633] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1634] My name is fact, fact, fact, fact.

[1635] I want to check, check, check, and into facts, facts, facts, and go to heaven, heaven, heaven, heaven, go to 711, 11, 11, do bum, bum, bum, bum.

[1636] What's this silly patty cake?

[1637] That sounds like that.

[1638] What is that thing?

[1639] Go to heaven, heaven, heaven, heaven.

[1640] Yeah, it's Miss Mary Mac, Mac, Mac, Mac.

[1641] She checked the fact, fact, fact, fact.

[1642] I think it's really Miss Mary Mac, Mac, Mac all dressed in black, black, black, black.

[1643] The silver buttons, buttons, buttons all down her back, back, back.

[1644] She went to heaven, heaven, heaven.

[1645] Don't they say heaven at some point?

[1646] I think it's a very pro -heaven rhyme.

[1647] You really, really.

[1648] I think it's brought to you by the heaven ad council.

[1649] Wow, I don't remember, but that really brought me back to being a school girl.

[1650] Oh, good.

[1651] Yeah, on the playground.

[1652] And you were even smaller mouse?

[1653] Oh, very, very small.

[1654] What is the name of a baby mouse?

[1655] It should have a really cute name.

[1656] A meese.

[1657] A little stupid whiskers they have and the twitchy nose.

[1658] You think they're cute for real?

[1659] I do.

[1660] And I think it's preposterous that I think rats are disgusting and mice are adorable.

[1661] They're the same thing.

[1662] They're the same thing.

[1663] And if I'm being honest, I don't like either.

[1664] When I lived in Dearborn, Michigan with a bunch of roommates, you know, it wasn't the cleanest place.

[1665] It wasn't the nicest apartment.

[1666] It was above this Chochie store.

[1667] Uh -huh.

[1668] I'm Michigan Avenue and we had a little mouse that lived in our house.

[1669] A pet.

[1670] And it did the same thing every time we would be all watching TV and one else would go, it's here, it's here.

[1671] And it would just cross the living room and stand in this arch and stare at us until we would look and then it would run away really quick.

[1672] But if we wouldn't look forward, it would just watch us watch TV.

[1673] It was so cute.

[1674] It's kind of like Ralph, you know, the little mouse Ralph from the books who drove a car.

[1675] Yeah.

[1676] Yeah, it was much like having Ralph live with us rent free.

[1677] We had a tenant, basically.

[1678] Oh.

[1679] I had a cute little mouse roommate.

[1680] That's fun.

[1681] Yeah, maybe that's why I like him.

[1682] And no one was scared of him or her.

[1683] No, no, no, no. This mouse was the size of a two ping pong balls.

[1684] Oh.

[1685] Yeah.

[1686] I always had this thought that I was going to like open my eyes in the middle of the night.

[1687] It would be on my pillow just watching me sleep.

[1688] Yeah, and that didn't perturb you.

[1689] It didn't because, you know what's funny is I don't associate mice with biting me. What about droppings?

[1690] man if this thing was the size of a ping pong ball i don't even know i would have been able to see its droppings oh even scarier yeah oh but they were all so my roommates at the time too were all vegan there was a period where we hadn't embraced this occupant and we were trying to catch it of course and of course because they were all vegan like a mousetrap was completely out of the question for them so we had for months this bucket in our living room with a little ramp up to it and peanut butter at the bottom of the bucket and that was going to be the humane way to capture this thing But it was really funny when people have these ideas.

[1691] It's like, and then what?

[1692] So you've captured it, and then you toss it out on Michigan Avenue?

[1693] What do you think it's survival odds are there?

[1694] Yeah.

[1695] I'm very busy thoroughfare.

[1696] Wow.

[1697] Well, that's, I didn't know that you had pets.

[1698] You didn't know you had mice pets.

[1699] I had no idea.

[1700] Did you have other pets growing up?

[1701] We had, when my mom and dad were married and we lived in the country on a couple of acres, we had a German shepherd that just made himself our pet.

[1702] He was the neighbor's dog, but he always hung out at our house.

[1703] And eventually that neighbor just brought over his dog dish in a big bag of dog food.

[1704] And they were like, all right, he's yours.

[1705] And his name was dog.

[1706] That was his name.

[1707] He's a German shepherd.

[1708] And my mom's favorite story to tell about dog was that being a German shepherd, he's very protective, right?

[1709] You know, we lived in the country.

[1710] Do you think he picked you?

[1711] Because you're shepherds?

[1712] Perhaps.

[1713] Oh.

[1714] So my mom, her routine was she at that time was a stay -at -home mom.

[1715] And I played in the sandbox all day long, right?

[1716] I would always be outside with my tonka trucks playing.

[1717] And my mom would be cleaning the house and doing dishes and making meals.

[1718] And she would just probably every, I don't know, 20 minutes glance outside to see that I was still in the sandbox.

[1719] So she glanced outside at some point and I was not in the sandbox.

[1720] Oh, my God.

[1721] So then she went outside and then she's like running all over the yard looking for me. in this long driveway and then middle road was the road we lived on.

[1722] And eventually she heard beeping and stuff.

[1723] She went out to the road.

[1724] I am in the road at two years old with my tonka truck.

[1725] There's a line of traffic in both directions.

[1726] And dog is just circling me. And when people would get out to try to move me, his hair would stand up and he would bark and chase him to their car.

[1727] And then he'd run back and then just circle me. What a good boy, huh?

[1728] And what a bad mommy.

[1729] What a bad boy, Dax and a nice boy dog.

[1730] You can't be mad at a two -year -old for taking his tonkas out to the asphalt to see how they perform.

[1731] My God.

[1732] My God.

[1733] Oh, this is back to my, how many times I've avoided death?

[1734] Yes, you've just escaped death so often.

[1735] I can't even.

[1736] I don't think I have.

[1737] You've heard that theory of mine.

[1738] Yeah, you think you died all these times.

[1739] Yeah, yeah.

[1740] I think when you die for final and then you go to the.

[1741] pearly gates and you're like oh i guess i died it was a good life and here we are and then that person laughs oh you think this is the first time you died no no you died when you were two you died when you were six you died in your night and then they would flash and show you maybe not the actual death but just remind you of that time yeah oh really you think you live through that rollover accident the median of us 23 going 85 miles an hour yeah you think you lived through that huh yeah i like that theory it's fine i don't think is true, but I like it.

[1742] Of course, it's not true, but of course it's not.

[1743] Well, I mean, this conversation makes me feel scared and superstitious, but we can keep having it.

[1744] I don't feel like I've had any deaths yet.

[1745] Okay.

[1746] Well, good.

[1747] Then you've got a bunch like free lives in a video game.

[1748] You've probably got like 20 free lives.

[1749] I must be getting towards the end.

[1750] Yeah.

[1751] No. Well, hey, it's okay.

[1752] You know what I, I've decided about myself, is because I'm scared that something's going to happen all the time, that that's just, that's my burden.

[1753] Like, the thing is not going to be my burden.

[1754] It's the fear that I'm going to expire prematurely.

[1755] Yeah, just like living with that is the thing I'm tasked with, not the actually getting it.

[1756] I have to be honest, there's something about my theory that I find comfort in.

[1757] Like because you're doing all this worrying, you're going to be saved from something tragic.

[1758] Well, that's, but that's the whole point of it is like, yeah, I'm probably not going to have an aneurism.

[1759] No. Even though I'm constantly afraid of that.

[1760] Yeah.

[1761] And then that's the thing I have to struggle with is this constant fear.

[1762] That's the thing I have to overcome, not the aneurism.

[1763] But I kind of find some comfort in that because I'd rather, I think I'd rather have that than have the aneurism.

[1764] But here's what's crazy about worrying about an aneurism.

[1765] If we just really work this through.

[1766] But let's get on the chalkboard and work out the math.

[1767] Okay.

[1768] An aneurism.

[1769] Boom.

[1770] You're done, right?

[1771] So there's, you won't know you had an aneurysm.

[1772] So you're not going to know you had an aneurysm, nor are you going to feel sad that you had one.

[1773] But my parents are going to be so sad.

[1774] You won't know that.

[1775] But I know that now, me now.

[1776] I know that that suffering is going to be.

[1777] horrible.

[1778] I guess you won't care.

[1779] Not at all.

[1780] I'll be like, what a way to go.

[1781] I know.

[1782] God, I guess I can remove you from my docket.

[1783] Yeah.

[1784] But remove me from your fearless because I don't want to be a part of any of your fears.

[1785] While you ruminate on that, I do want to apologize publicly to people.

[1786] And it was quite ironic that we talked about misophonia for very long time on the Sarah Silverman episode.

[1787] And then one and or both of us got to chewing on some gum in the fact.

[1788] shack almost as if it had been planned to fuck with people.

[1789] I know.

[1790] People didn't like it.

[1791] It was just an oversight.

[1792] It was a complete oversight and we're very sorry.

[1793] And the problem is we're not afflicted by misophoning.

[1794] Yeah, if you're chewing gum in the mic, I don't mind one bit.

[1795] No. I am curious because people complained, which is their right in a free liberal democracy to do so.

[1796] Sure.

[1797] But I can be misleading.

[1798] I start thinking everyone has misophonia.

[1799] Me too.

[1800] But I actually enjoy the sounds of chewing.

[1801] Like, even when Sarah had brought up the guy from the fish sex movie, that he would chew those hard candies, that was literally my favorite part of the whole movie, the way he would manipulate those hard candies in his chompers.

[1802] Yeah.

[1803] It doesn't bother me at all.

[1804] I like it.

[1805] In fact, like it.

[1806] So I wonder if, you know, are we, is it that 90 % would enjoy hearing us eat a big Dagwood sandwich on here?

[1807] And then we're not doing that because of the one.

[1808] I don't know.

[1809] Wish we had some hard data.

[1810] It's okay.

[1811] We're going to steer clear of any food or gum in our mouth.

[1812] But we were thinking about doing a food podcast.

[1813] And we were thinking about the challenges of that because, you know, you'd want to be at the restaurants explaining what you're eating and all that stuff.

[1814] People have your mouth full and they'll be talking and everything.

[1815] And again, that would be fine with me. But I'm wondering, would 70 % of the population hate that?

[1816] Is this a waste of time?

[1817] I'm also self -conscious about my cold.

[1818] Like, my voice sounds weird and they may not like that.

[1819] Yeah.

[1820] It might trigger their misophonia.

[1821] Yeah.

[1822] My weird, weird voice.

[1823] Probably not, but.

[1824] But you never know.

[1825] You don't know.

[1826] Michael Pena we had on.

[1827] Oh, sweet, sweet Mike Pena.

[1828] Yeah.

[1829] He's currently working with Ryan Hanson right now in Fiji.

[1830] That's right.

[1831] Those lucky bastards.

[1832] I know.

[1833] They both have kids and they're not with their kids.

[1834] They're just swimming.

[1835] in the ocean is free human beings on planet Earth.

[1836] I see their pictures on Instagram.

[1837] It makes me hate them.

[1838] Oh, wow.

[1839] I hate them.

[1840] Okay.

[1841] I love both of them.

[1842] And I'm glad they're working together.

[1843] I know how fun.

[1844] Yeah, and it seems they're really getting along, too.

[1845] You know when you have two friends and you don't really know and you're hoping for the best.

[1846] Oh, but it could take a turn.

[1847] It could, and that would be heartbreaking.

[1848] But no, it seems like it's going like gangbusters down there in Fiji.

[1849] He was so likable.

[1850] I mean, I know.

[1851] I've met him before, obviously.

[1852] We did a scene together.

[1853] Yeah, you guys.

[1854] Well, first of all, you're seen partners.

[1855] We're seen partners.

[1856] First and foremost.

[1857] But I did notice, we were just talking about this the other day.

[1858] You know, like, I don't know, six or seven times throughout this, I will see that Monica has a certain opinion of someone when they arrive.

[1859] Or maybe it's just no opinion.

[1860] Yeah, no opinion.

[1861] And then visibly her whole body posture changes.

[1862] And she's looking in their direction and certain.

[1863] way and she has this smile on her face and I've seen it now seven or eight times and it's so fun for me to witness and this was definitely one of those times yeah you had just this really warm happy smile listening to his story and it made me so happy I feel like he exudes he just made me feel so comfortable yeah he is not a hoity tooty highfalut in anything even though he's such an esteemed actor and he could kind of carry himself like a fucking brat Oh, totally.

[1864] Totally.

[1865] And he genuinely seems to be completely unaware of his status.

[1866] That's one of my facts to check.

[1867] Great.

[1868] Great.

[1869] Is he thinks that he is not in the same tier as these people he's working with.

[1870] And he's so wrong.

[1871] He's completely on their level.

[1872] Yeah.

[1873] And he's a big movie star.

[1874] Yes.

[1875] And I've seen him in scenes with the best of the best.

[1876] I'm always drawn to looking at him.

[1877] I know.

[1878] I can't keep my eyes off of him.

[1879] He's so, well, it was also funny because he was saying that they used to like soap operas, Spanish soap operas, telenovelas.

[1880] And I was thinking, I was like, how ironic, because if that was his first foray into acting, into watching people act, like, he is so natural.

[1881] Oh, yeah.

[1882] He couldn't be more understated.

[1883] Yeah.

[1884] And just, yeah.

[1885] But what is crazy about that, too, is that I think if I, if I have any zone of acting I think I'm good at, is that I think I'm pretty natural.

[1886] You are, yeah.

[1887] And we have completely opposite approaches to get natural.

[1888] Yeah, that's true.

[1889] Which is fascinating.

[1890] Like, his naturalness is very, very complicated.

[1891] Oh, nuanced.

[1892] Yeah.

[1893] Well, what's really funny about him is he comes across very natural and easy and understanding.

[1894] but he he's always doing a character.

[1895] Yes, 100%.

[1896] So it's not like when I'm natural acting, it's because I'm just being me. Yep, me too.

[1897] And I'm just saying other words, but I'm me. Yep.

[1898] And he is never doing that.

[1899] So it's so impressive to be that natural while doing a character.

[1900] Yeah.

[1901] And it was a revelation to me midway through Chips when he said, I'm playing you.

[1902] I was like, that's bizarre.

[1903] And I guess now that you pointed out, some of the things you're doing, I guess you have picked up my cadence.

[1904] Do you think he was also doing some physical things you do?

[1905] Oh, I wonder.

[1906] Yeah.

[1907] I should know.

[1908] I've seen the movie 1100 times.

[1909] But it's hard to see yourself.

[1910] Like, it would be very hard to pick out.

[1911] This reminds me of one of the funniest experiences I ever had.

[1912] It was when Nate Tuck and I were in level one or two.

[1913] of the groundlings.

[1914] They had as an exercise, we got assigned people in the class.

[1915] And we had to go improv as if we were that person, right?

[1916] I have a similar story.

[1917] And Nate got me. And so Nate gets up and he starts improvving and he starts moving spastically around the stage.

[1918] Like his arms are flailing.

[1919] It looks ridiculous.

[1920] And everyone is laughing.

[1921] I mean, it was the most unanimous, oh, he nailed Dax.

[1922] of any of the people who were doing one another.

[1923] And I was like, for real, that's spot on for me?

[1924] I know.

[1925] Or it can be very...

[1926] It's hard.

[1927] Yes, it can be very revealing.

[1928] Eye opening, yes.

[1929] I think I already told this story on the podcast.

[1930] I had an almost exact similar situation in college.

[1931] The first week of my freshman year, first acting class, we all had to pick names out and then that Friday we were supposed to come in as that person.

[1932] Uh -huh.

[1933] And I was this girl, and it was so accurate that she cried.

[1934] Oh, but not with joy.

[1935] Oh.

[1936] Not with joy.

[1937] Did you feel terrible?

[1938] Well, I felt terrible and proud that I did a good job.

[1939] I like doing a good job, you know.

[1940] What were some of the things that you had latched on to?

[1941] Well, it was because, and because everyone knew it was.

[1942] her quickly.

[1943] And by the way, she's so special.

[1944] She's wonderful.

[1945] And there's nothing, there's not like, she didn't like have like a gimp or something.

[1946] Are you allowed to say that?

[1947] What?

[1948] Gimp?

[1949] Yeah, I think so.

[1950] Yeah.

[1951] No, so she didn't have that.

[1952] But she sort of carried herself in a kind of like don't notice me. Yeah.

[1953] Like a wallflowery type of.

[1954] Yeah.

[1955] Even just in the way she walked, it was just like her shoulders were little bit like turned in.

[1956] Her head was like always a little bit down.

[1957] Yeah.

[1958] And so I think it came off as sort of like a sad person.

[1959] Right.

[1960] And then it made her sad and she cried.

[1961] Oh my God.

[1962] That's a terrible story.

[1963] She ended up being one of my best friends.

[1964] Yeah.

[1965] Remember when I got Jess's walk down perfect?

[1966] Yes.

[1967] And he has a specific walk.

[1968] He has the most specific walk.

[1969] And I really nailed it that time.

[1970] You did.

[1971] You did.

[1972] He was like, He was laughing so hard because he was like, there's no way it's that preposterous.

[1973] And you were like that, it's, I wouldn't even know it was, if I was only looking from the waist down, I would think Jess entered the room.

[1974] It was good.

[1975] I think then you tried to do me, and I thought that was incorrect.

[1976] Oh, okay.

[1977] Remember?

[1978] Yeah, I know how you walk.

[1979] I told you, I can always tell who's walking down the hallway in the house.

[1980] Yeah.

[1981] The most specific pitter patter.

[1982] I know.

[1983] I wonder why.

[1984] I don't know.

[1985] It's almost like, you walk like you bounce side to side like a penguin a little bit.

[1986] Oh.

[1987] Cute.

[1988] Um, this, this fact check.

[1989] I mean, I already gave one.

[1990] That was only kind of a fact.

[1991] Um, is slim, slim, slim, slim facts, almost nothing.

[1992] Um, okay, so he, he mentioned a character in train spotting that quit drugs, but he couldn't remember his name.

[1993] He said maybe Johnny boy.

[1994] Um, I think it's sick boy.

[1995] Sick boy.

[1996] Super good looking actor.

[1997] that was dating Angelina Jolie after they did the weird roller skate movie or Hacker's movie.

[1998] Johnny Miller, Johnny Lee Miller.

[1999] Johnny Lee Miller.

[2000] Yeah, I think that's who played Sick Boy.

[2001] Now, Rob, here's your opportunity to get on that mic.

[2002] So you're going to notice something new.

[2003] I think I thought it was weird that you can hear Rob in the background.

[2004] You know he's here.

[2005] And now you're going to hear him in quadrophonic sound.

[2006] Quadrophonic stereo sound.

[2007] Maybe not.

[2008] I don't have an answer to this.

[2009] Did you find it, Monica?

[2010] Is Johnny Lee Miller, correct?

[2011] Great.

[2012] And I think he was romantically linked to Angelina Jolie at one time.

[2013] He's very attractive based on the picture I just saw.

[2014] So fucking hot.

[2015] It's crazy.

[2016] Okay, so Michael, do you think he goes, do you call Mike?

[2017] I do sometimes because his brother calls him Mike.

[2018] Yeah, he.

[2019] You know, that's the thing that you've noticed about me. It's like my friend Andrew Panay.

[2020] Everyone calls him Andrew Panet.

[2021] But when I found out his parents call him George or Jorge.

[2022] Well, Horggo, because he's Greek.

[2023] Oh.

[2024] You can call him George or Horgul.

[2025] So I have only called George George Sends because I want to be on that familial tier.

[2026] I get that.

[2027] I understand that.

[2028] Yeah.

[2029] If somebody calls me Mon and we're not close enough, I'm like, you shouldn't be doing that.

[2030] I've never called you Ma 'an.

[2031] Well, you're allowed.

[2032] Well, I appreciate it, but it doesn't feel right for me. Yeah, you never have done that, no. And my mom doesn't either.

[2033] She calls me Monnie.

[2034] I like Monty.

[2035] Yeah.

[2036] Well, Kristen, because her name is Kristen, a lot of different people have things that are inside for her.

[2037] So a lot of her friends from Veronica Mars will call her Kay Bell.

[2038] Like her early career, they call her Kay Bell.

[2039] I know.

[2040] And I don't.

[2041] I don't either.

[2042] And the funniest was my stepdad always called her Chris.

[2043] Right.

[2044] And the only other person that calls her Chris is Jason Doring from Veronica Mars.

[2045] Yeah, that's right.

[2046] It cracks me up when I hear people call her Chris.

[2047] Somebody else called her Chris the other day and I was like...

[2048] Maybe my mom?

[2049] No, wasn't your mom.

[2050] Wasn't Ryan?

[2051] It might have been Ryan Hanson.

[2052] Possibly.

[2053] He maybe did it because he's been spending a lot of time with Jason Doring.

[2054] Yeah, that's quite likely.

[2055] So that's part of it.

[2056] I'm the only one that calls her bell.

[2057] Yep.

[2058] But it seems, I've noticed, I've heard a couple people refer to her that.

[2059] Oh, Carly calls her bell too.

[2060] Oh, I call her mom.

[2061] Baby.

[2062] Mom, baby, wife.

[2063] When I'm typing about her, gossip, what I'm sending to the gossip columns.

[2064] Yeah, selling stories, too.

[2065] No, when I'm typing, I always type KB.

[2066] Yeah, it's the easiest.

[2067] But the other thing about Kristen Annie Bell is that everyone calls her Annie.

[2068] is not Kristen from her family everyone from michigan calls her annie yeah and uh aunt annie and in fact we went over when i was uh back in michigan in may with delta i stopped by her sister's house sarah and tom's house and tom and i were outside talking about christian and he was calling her christian and then sarah came on she goes why are you doing that stop calling her christian it's annie he goes i don't i just felt weird i don't know he knows her is Kristen.

[2069] Yeah, she is Annie.

[2070] Yeah, it's so funny.

[2071] I think they feel like I'm calling her a stage name.

[2072] I mean, it is her name, but no one called her Kristen.

[2073] It's definitely her name.

[2074] Yeah.

[2075] Yeah.

[2076] Okay.

[2077] Everyone just calls me Dax.

[2078] A lot of my friends in Detroit call me Dad or Shepard.

[2079] Your mom calls you Daxer.

[2080] Yeah, Daxer.

[2081] That was my nickname.

[2082] Sometimes I call you Daxie.

[2083] Sometimes Kristen calls you Daxie.

[2084] I've heard it.

[2085] I like both those.

[2086] But at home, it's Shepard.

[2087] I don't have a single friend that calls me Dax.

[2088] Ooh, you know, I kind of like it.

[2089] Some people call me Padman, and I like that.

[2090] Yes, going by the last name is very cool.

[2091] Nate Tuck does that.

[2092] Yeah, of course.

[2093] And I call Tuck quite often Tuck.

[2094] It's kind of like maybe a guy's sports thing, even though I didn't play team sports.

[2095] I think that's where it comes from.

[2096] Maybe.

[2097] Because the coach is always like, Smith, Bailey, Jenkins.

[2098] It's kind of a sexy move to call someone by their last name.

[2099] Yep, I agree.

[2100] There's something sexual about it.

[2101] Okay, so he mentioned.

[2102] Buddhist and past lives.

[2103] And I was like, do they believe in past lives?

[2104] But they do.

[2105] Because isn't the Dalai Lama, I don't know nothing about Buddhism other than the whole craving thing, which I like, and life is suffering.

[2106] Yeah.

[2107] Isn't the Dalai Lama always somehow the spirit of that, like, isn't he reincarnated?

[2108] Well, there's more, there's new Dalai Lamas.

[2109] But it's not the same spirit?

[2110] I don't think so.

[2111] But I don't know.

[2112] I don't know enough about it either.

[2113] I'd like to learn more about Buddhism, though.

[2114] Me too.

[2115] It seems like they've got some shit figured out.

[2116] Me too.

[2117] I mean, I agree.

[2118] You've all Harariah does the best job of explaining it to date for me. Do you want to share it?

[2119] I think I have on here before, but he said what's commonly known about Buddhism is life is suffering, right?

[2120] And he said, well, that's really incomplete.

[2121] That's not actually what Buddhists are saying.

[2122] They are saying that the humans desire to be in a. different state of mind at all times is the root of suffering.

[2123] So if you're uncomfortable and you want to be comfortable, it's actually the craving of comfort that is suffering.

[2124] Right.

[2125] And that even when you're happy, your mind naturally goes to, well, how long am I going to feel this happy?

[2126] How long will this last?

[2127] Will it get higher?

[2128] And it's that internal racket, that dialogue of wanting to either extend happiness and pleasure or or end discomfort is where the real source of suffering lies.

[2129] And then if you just accept all the state you're in and allow your body to experience them, that diminishes suffering.

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] Yeah.

[2132] I find that to be very true.

[2133] Yeah, I agree.

[2134] I thought that was an addict thing, but I think it's not, no, it's a human thing.

[2135] Yeah.

[2136] Rebirth is one of the foundational doctrines of Buddhism along with karma.

[2137] Nirvana and Mokshah.

[2138] Some Buddhist traditions assert that no self doctrine means that there's no self, but there is inexpressible self, which migrates from one life to another.

[2139] So that's more like the spirit, I guess, is like you said.

[2140] But I don't know about the Dalai Lama.

[2141] Should we invite the Dalai Lama on to explain this to us?

[2142] Oh, my God, I love it.

[2143] It's so funny.

[2144] I'm triggered by the Dalai Lama.

[2145] Why?

[2146] Because I'm, I don't believe that humans should be treated as deities or seen as deities or more special than any other person.

[2147] Yeah.

[2148] And probably the Dalai Lama doesn't see himself that way.

[2149] But so many other people do that I'm like, guys, there's no, you know, there isn't a God walking around a planet Earth.

[2150] Yeah, I agree.

[2151] It feels like, it just feels like, you know, hero worship of the worst variety.

[2152] So I'm just always like, and he's probably a lovely person.

[2153] And I probably would love everything he has to say, but I'm just like, you're not special.

[2154] I want to say you're not special.

[2155] Yeah, I understand that.

[2156] It feels a little uncomfortable to give like blind, yeah, worship to someone who maybe hasn't earned it.

[2157] Because aren't they just given?

[2158] You're born the Dalai Lama.

[2159] Yeah.

[2160] But I agree.

[2161] And you feel like that about the Pope, I assume, too.

[2162] Yeah, my big reservations about the Pope.

[2163] even more than the Dalai Lama because well also let me just say the cynical side of me as well as like well the Dalai Lama is so enlightened why is he always with like movie stars like they can't be the highest rung on the spiritual transcendent spectrum in Buddhism that would warrant his keeping them as company like it feels like oh he succumbs to the same thing everyone else is like he wants to be buddies like with Richard gear like I do that's not too self -actualized I know if he's always with celebrities.

[2164] The pictures I see, of course.

[2165] Yeah, the pictures that you're going to see are the ones of him with celebrity.

[2166] Or you could probably make the argument that, like, the Dalai Lama is trying to spread a certain message and that these people amplify that message.

[2167] That's true.

[2168] So it probably is a means to an end.

[2169] It just feels a little dicey.

[2170] Sure.

[2171] Yeah, you're right.

[2172] Yeah.

[2173] And the Pope's easier for me to dislike because, you know, they're a business, which bothers me. You know, the Roman Catholic Church, I think, is the biggest landowner in the world.

[2174] They, you know, there's so much money funneling up into that crazy ornate lifestyle they have.

[2175] And I don't know.

[2176] It's troubling to me. Although I dig the new Pope.

[2177] Yeah, I like him.

[2178] Yeah, he kind of got me. Yeah.

[2179] I just don't think humans should be elevated on that level.

[2180] You know what, you're right.

[2181] Anytime you have that, it's a fine line between cult worship.

[2182] Yes.

[2183] I don't understand why the Pope doesn't have sex and stuff.

[2184] I guess it's not pure.

[2185] But it is.

[2186] It's like the purest thing you can do.

[2187] Well, I mean.

[2188] Yeah, that's the problem.

[2189] It's all wound up in this.

[2190] Yeah, why is that pure?

[2191] That's bonkers.

[2192] I know, except that, I mean, sex does complicate things.

[2193] Well, between siblings for sure.

[2194] I don't think a person who's lonely and is not permitted to have a partner and experience life on planet Earth and a partnership should not be guiding the people on planet Earth.

[2195] It seems like, well, this person is living in this very artificial, arbitrary structure.

[2196] So that person doesn't even have a grasp on what people are doing.

[2197] I think what it's trying to say maybe is they're sacrificing this.

[2198] to be closer to this thing.

[2199] Yeah, and also that maybe they aren't tempted by the same human.

[2200] Which is utter bullshit because we've seen the results of all these priests who don't have normal relationships with other humans.

[2201] So, I mean, to me, it's the, that verdict's in.

[2202] Oh, yeah.

[2203] It is not a way for people to live.

[2204] It's not a great way to go.

[2205] Yeah.

[2206] Leads to some pathology.

[2207] Also, if the Pope makes you happy, that's awesome.

[2208] I'm genuinely happy if the Pope.

[2209] Pope makes you happy.

[2210] And if the Pope says things to you that resonate in your life and it makes your life better, then I'm all for that too.

[2211] Me too and the Dalai Lama.

[2212] Yeah.

[2213] You said it's never happened that someone held up a picture of either of you and thought like, oh my God, that's such a sexy person and got faint.

[2214] And that's not true.

[2215] You don't think that's true.

[2216] Did you find someone that said they looked at a picture?

[2217] No, but I know that that's not true.

[2218] Do you think anyone's had to changed meandies?

[2219] Yeah.

[2220] I do.

[2221] I think they've looked at pictures and needed a change.

[2222] Okay.

[2223] Well, thank you so much for having that opinion of me. You're welcome.

[2224] But my point is, I don't think anyone was ever, before I was famous ever was I walking down a street and a woman turned back 180 to check me out further.

[2225] I don't think that's ever happened.

[2226] I know, but you don't know that that's true.

[2227] Well, I do know because I'm turning 180 to look at them and I've never seen anyone Looking back.

[2228] You know, no. No. What are you talking about?

[2229] Maybe that's why I drive like a knucklehead.

[2230] You dated such pretty.

[2231] That's because I got a good personality.

[2232] And I can dance and I'm funny.

[2233] You can dance if you want to, you can leave your friends behind.

[2234] But if your friend's named Dax and if he does a dance and you might lay with him.

[2235] That's nice.

[2236] That's it.

[2237] That's all?

[2238] Yeah.

[2239] All right.

[2240] Let's just really, let's finish it up on just, again, you just loved him.

[2241] And it made me so happy because when I love someone and then miniature mouse meets that person and she loves him, I just feel great about the whole thing.

[2242] Yeah.

[2243] It was so exciting to do that scene with him.

[2244] I was just going to say he was very like kind to you as an actor, right?

[2245] Oh, yeah.

[2246] That's a thing about him.

[2247] Very, very.

[2248] Of course, I felt like in my head about.

[2249] Yeah, I'm sure you're doing all these stupid things.

[2250] Yeah, I was doing something.

[2251] Oh, he thinks I'm just here because I know Dax.

[2252] Right, right, right.

[2253] And I'm your babysitter.

[2254] But I wrote the role for you.

[2255] I know, which is so nice.

[2256] Yeah, like I wrote it specifically.

[2257] I knew, yeah, I wasn't like, oh, let me throw you a role in the movie.

[2258] I wrote it for you with you and mine the whole time.

[2259] Yeah.

[2260] But I still think, you know, he's a big movie star.

[2261] And he knew that I was your babysitter at that time.

[2262] At that time I was your babysitter.

[2263] And...

[2264] Not your babysitter.

[2265] Yeah, the movie was somehow inundated with ex -babysitters.

[2266] Really quick about that.

[2267] So you were in it.

[2268] Carly was in it.

[2269] Other people were in it.

[2270] Then also, I was watching Fargo.

[2271] And the music was unbelievable.

[2272] I'm like, whoever is choosing the music for Fargo is a genius.

[2273] Well, I look her up and it's Maggie, who, ironically, I'm, met doing the freebie because she was Mark Duploss's babysitter.

[2274] Yeah.

[2275] And had then gone on to, she's like the most recognized, talented music picker in the world now.

[2276] And so then she came in and did some music stuff on chips.

[2277] Yeah.

[2278] And then there was a third, there was another person that was somehow was like the rise of the babysitters, which I felt really good about.

[2279] Yeah.

[2280] Yeah.

[2281] No, it's so nice.

[2282] But yeah, he was kind.

[2283] I just, I think I always like when I work with actors who really go out of their way to make that person who's just got that one scene feel good and special.

[2284] Yeah.

[2285] Peter Krause is the king of that.

[2286] He is.

[2287] Oh, of course.

[2288] He makes those people feel so wonderful.

[2289] Oh, he's so nice.

[2290] I try because it's the hardest thing to do.

[2291] To come in and do a scene in a movie is way, way harder than being the lead of a movie.

[2292] It's hard.

[2293] It's really hard.

[2294] You can't get your rhythm and your momentum going.

[2295] Yeah.

[2296] But it was great.

[2297] Right.

[2298] And I was, I felt so lucky to get to do a scene with him.

[2299] And you guys were really flirting very heavily in that scene.

[2300] Yeah, that part's not true.

[2301] It is.

[2302] I could show you the footage that I cut out.

[2303] He was asking you on a date later that week.

[2304] Well, that's because I think you came in and you said, I'm sensing some rhythm.

[2305] Amped that up.

[2306] All right.

[2307] Well, Michael Payne, we love you to pieces.

[2308] I love you.

[2309] I love you, miniature mouse.

[2310] Love you.

[2311] And Rob, good first time on the mic.

[2312] We have some kinks to iron up, but all in all, not terrible.

[2313] Thanks.

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