Armchair Anonymous: Stuck

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[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair at Anonymous.

[4] I'm Dan Rather.

[5] I'm joined by Burt Baccarat.

[6] Hi, I'm Bert.

[7] Hi.

[8] I'm Bert.

[9] Did you see?

[10] I posted a video for last week's race to 35 and I did a voice.

[11] I did a character.

[12] I was being my follicles.

[13] Oh my God.

[14] Can I hear the character?

[15] What did the follicles sound like?

[16] I can show you the video.

[17] I'm not going to do it.

[18] You won't do it on demand.

[19] No, no. I don't remember how to do it.

[20] Okay, well, I'll go watch it is what I'll do.

[21] But do we think we're moving in a direction of, like, if you now posted a video of you doing a character, do you think we're making steps towards more character work?

[22] No. I was on so many hormones that I see.

[23] think I was out of my mind.

[24] Okay.

[25] All right.

[26] Well, I'll tell you what people weren't out of anything in this episode.

[27] They were stuck.

[28] In fact, desiring to be out of something.

[29] Yes.

[30] Really good segue.

[31] This episode is about the worst place you've been stuck.

[32] And I don't recommend this one.

[33] I think everyone would do themselves a favor to just move along to the next episode.

[34] No, you have to listen.

[35] It's a good one.

[36] No, it's not a good episode.

[37] Yes, it is.

[38] This first story is about a guy stuck in a cave, and I thought I couldn't breathe at some point.

[39] It was very uncomfortable, and I didn't like it.

[40] I don't think anyone should listen to this one.

[41] Oh, my God.

[42] We also have a friend stop by and tell us a really fun story at the end.

[43] Well, not a fun, harrowing.

[44] Very, very special surprise guest.

[45] Yeah.

[46] Someone we talk about nonstop.

[47] I'm just going to say it.

[48] Eric is here, Eric Richardson.

[49] Yeah.

[50] With this crazy story.

[51] Oh, what a delight.

[52] Okay, so I take that back.

[53] Listen to this episode.

[54] Exactly.

[55] Okay.

[56] You were right, as always.

[57] Please enjoy the worst places people have been stuck.

[58] All times.

[59] Come and go.

[60] Take them slow.

[61] You got to know, I'm going to keep on shining.

[62] Tell us about the worst place you've been stuck.

[63] I hope there's some good stuck.

[64] I hope there's some good stuck in this episode.

[65] Hi.

[66] Hello.

[67] Oh, can you hear me?

[68] Oh, yeah, perfectly.

[69] Beautifully.

[70] Very good headset.

[71] Excellent, excellent.

[72] Are we calling you by your name, John?

[73] Yeah, that's great.

[74] I do have something that needs to be kept secret, but I'll get to that.

[75] Okay, wonderful.

[76] We love secrets.

[77] Yeah, we really love secrets, more than other information.

[78] Are you still stuck where you were stuck?

[79] Because you could still be stuck.

[80] This could be a call for help some of these.

[81] What if we talk to someone who's currently stuck?

[82] Currently stuck.

[83] Fortunately not.

[84] Okay.

[85] Oh, I'm so excited to you guys.

[86] John, tell us where you were stuck.

[87] Okay.

[88] It's the early 90s, and I'm going to go explore a limestone cave with a couple of friends, co -workers.

[89] And I'm not talking about like a commercial cave with a gift shop where you buy trinkets and polished rocks.

[90] I'm talking about a completely wild cave off the beaten path, no stairs, no handrails, no signage, nothing.

[91] Local cavers aren't going to.

[92] tell people where these places are.

[93] They want to keep them secret.

[94] They don't want people to go do stupid stuff.

[95] You know, deface the cave, get themselves stuck, you know, stuff like that.

[96] Yeah, yeah.

[97] John stuff.

[98] Right, right.

[99] Well, they don't want to get it closed off because some rando came ruined.

[100] They don't want to get labeled as dangerous and shut down.

[101] Right.

[102] So this is where my friend Charlie comes in.

[103] So he is really an expert caver, accomplished, experience.

[104] he's basically kind of a smart -ass tree -hugging Yosemite Sam.

[105] Like, think huge, bushy, red, old -timey mustache.

[106] That's this guy.

[107] We're on the western foothills of the Sierra Nevada, you know, kind of somewhere between Yosemite and Tahoe area.

[108] We've brought along our friend Pam.

[109] We work together.

[110] She's actually our boss.

[111] Do you work with Yosemite, Sam?

[112] All three of you are co -workers.

[113] Exactly, yeah.

[114] Three of us are co -workers and she's our boss.

[115] And can I ask one other question, John?

[116] Because I know so little about cave exploration, but spielunking, this isn't what you guys are endeavoring upon, is it?

[117] Yes, we're going to go spalunking, but people who are really into spalunking just don't really call it spalunking.

[118] They are cavers.

[119] They go caving.

[120] I got you.

[121] We drive way out into the country, nondescript, middle of nowhere, and we just pull off on a turnout.

[122] We get our gear, and we hike like another 20, 30 minutes, just off into the woods and the wildlands.

[123] and there's an outcrop of rocks.

[124] There's an opening that looks barely big enough to fit a person.

[125] So we sit down and we start to gear up.

[126] And, you know, I am like anxious, nervous, excited.

[127] But, you know, I got my friend Charlie who's done this.

[128] He knows this cave.

[129] He's been in this cave.

[130] So we've got coveralls.

[131] We've got helmets.

[132] We've got headlamps.

[133] Little food, little water.

[134] We're good to go.

[135] What's Pam's appetite?

[136] She's down to party as well?

[137] Are she nervous?

[138] She's into it.

[139] So, yeah, we do all kinds of hiking together.

[140] and we're totally into the outdoors.

[141] I don't know if you can call caving outdoors.

[142] Indoor outdoor living at its best, yeah.

[143] And so Charlie disappears.

[144] Earth swallows him.

[145] There goes Pam, gone, and then I go in.

[146] As caves go, it's not like a super showy cave with all kinds of stalactites and stalagmites, and it's also pretty tight fit.

[147] I mean, it's mostly like crawling and scrambling and squeaking through.

[148] I can barely.

[149] I know, me too.

[150] This is really making me in.

[151] The only phobia I think I legitimately have, yes, is claustrophobia.

[152] I mean, are you up for this?

[153] You want to keep going?

[154] Of course.

[155] Yes.

[156] Yes.

[157] Make us uncomfortable.

[158] Punish us.

[159] Okay.

[160] So we're going down maybe, I don't know, 45 minutes to an hour.

[161] And, you know, we're not going super fast.

[162] You can't go fast.

[163] We stop, take a break.

[164] I kind of notice a passage.

[165] And I asked Charlie, I says, you know, is that the way?

[166] And he's like, why don't you find out?

[167] Oh, Charlie.

[168] I'm all over it.

[169] So I keep going.

[170] We go down, down.

[171] No. We get to a spot where it looks really tight.

[172] We stop, take a breath.

[173] Charlie says, hey, I've got a surprise for you guys.

[174] I wasn't quite sure we'd make it this far, but since we have, you know, on the other end of that passage right there is the biggest room in the cave.

[175] it's got like stalactites and stalagmites and draperies and it's beautiful immediately i've got cave fever like i am so into it charlie consents it and so he says yeah go ahead so the other thing here is certain passages sometimes the best move in terms of your physical body is to go in on your back head first because it leaves your hands kind of free so that's what i do i inch further in And I'm just, all I can think of is this giant room in there.

[176] I go further and it's getting pretty tight.

[177] Oh, God.

[178] Oh, my God.

[179] I think this might be the very first time I can identify when people say triggered.

[180] I don't know if I've actually ever been triggered in my life until now.

[181] Have you ever been stuck?

[182] Just hearing this, I'm like, I'm hyperventy.

[183] Look at John.

[184] He's giggling.

[185] He's here.

[186] But I'm going to the moment where he realizes he can't move his arms.

[187] I know.

[188] I don't.

[189] Okay, John, you're on your back.

[190] God.

[191] Oh, no. Real quick.

[192] Like, my hobbies, they're accompanied by adrenaline in motion and acceleration and this visceral feeling.

[193] And that obviously is some people's scary.

[194] What is the kink about this?

[195] Is it that you're somewhere no one's been?

[196] Is it that you're going to see something no one's seen?

[197] Is it you could die?

[198] Like, yeah, can you walk us through the appeal of it for you?

[199] It's really kind of a combination of all of those things.

[200] have been in caves, you know, some commercial caves, but also I had been in one or two wild caves with Charlie.

[201] And, you know, sometimes you see just amazing cave features, beautiful stalactites, stalagmites.

[202] One time, legitimately, we found a jawbone.

[203] We didn't touch it.

[204] We left it there.

[205] But ostensibly from some time way back, like it was a human jawbone.

[206] Charlie, you know, as a caver, He later was on a survey team for a cave called Lechigia, which is near Carlsbad.

[207] And he actually went underground and saw places no human had ever been.

[208] Wow.

[209] Okay.

[210] So it's a sense of exploring, an explorer.

[211] Okay, okay.

[212] Seeing something brand new.

[213] All right, I'm with you.

[214] Okay, so you're on your back.

[215] I mentioned farther.

[216] And, you know, all I can think of is this big room.

[217] I hear Charlie says, hey, John, hold up for a second.

[218] I'm just messing with you.

[219] There's no big room through there.

[220] You know, come on out.

[221] Oh, Charlie.

[222] I am not into Charlie.

[223] You were.

[224] I was fine with him, and now.

[225] I'm trying to process what I'm hearing.

[226] And instinctively, I go to back out.

[227] I can't move.

[228] No. I go again to back out.

[229] I can't move.

[230] I descend into this panic of paralytic fear.

[231] My heart rate and my respiration are up.

[232] my breathing is shallow, like tears are starting to come out of my eyes.

[233] I am trying to fight the panic with every fiber of my being, and panic is winning.

[234] Yeah.

[235] This is like the worst part of the whole thing is I am in so tight.

[236] As I try to breathe in, I can feel the walls of the cave pressing back against me. No. It is like a limestone sarcophagus.

[237] What follows is like this blur.

[238] I don't know if I talk to them.

[239] I didn't want them to touch me. People have asked me, well, didn't they just try to pull you out?

[240] Don't fucking touch me. I'm like descend into my own world, and I'm going through scenario after scenario.

[241] None of them end with me getting out.

[242] Really?

[243] You were like, this is where it ends.

[244] It's maybe, I don't know, hour and a half to get out.

[245] It's 20, 30 minutes to the car.

[246] We're out in the middle of nowhere.

[247] who is set up to rescue me. By the way, that is what panic is.

[248] So it's totally not equivalent in its danger.

[249] But the time I had a panic attack stuck on that rock formation in Joshua Tree, the second you go, okay, I need to be airlifted.

[250] Oh, what time is it?

[251] By the time they call, it's going to be dark.

[252] Oh, they don't airlift.

[253] You know, like once you start doing all those competitions really quick, you are going to, well, this is it.

[254] Oh, yeah.

[255] So I'm in there stuck, immobilized for 30.

[256] minutes.

[257] Which is like 400 hours in your brain.

[258] Oh, yeah.

[259] Is it an identity -shattering experience in some way?

[260] You classically take stock of everything and wonder why you did some things and why you didn't do other things.

[261] Slowly, slowly, the panic shifts to resignation.

[262] Whatever's going to happen is going to happen.

[263] And then slowly, slowly, this resignation kind of shifts to like, I've got to figure this out.

[264] Okay.

[265] So I start to experiment, you know, with some motion.

[266] I mean, I'm not 100 % immobilized.

[267] And what I finally figure out is that if I barely arch up on my elbows, so I get most of my body to the extent possible off the rock, and I scrape backward with my heels, I can move like a millimeter.

[268] Oh, God.

[269] I do that, and I'm exhausted after moving my body like an inch.

[270] And I just keep at it.

[271] And, you know, eventually it opens up a little bit.

[272] I can move maybe like an inch at a time now.

[273] Finally, I get to the point where my friends are and I'm able to sit up.

[274] Oh, God.

[275] I don't say anything to them.

[276] I'm still in my own little world.

[277] I'm breathing a little bit better.

[278] And at this point, Pam, you know, who's our boss, she senses that we're at least somewhat out of the woods and she hauls off and she slugs Charlie.

[279] She says, you asshole.

[280] Yeah, she should have fired them.

[281] You're fired, Charlie.

[282] I know.

[283] That is so dangerous.

[284] Not a good job.

[285] Not a good joke.

[286] Jokes can kill.

[287] Bit on bad.

[288] I'm not ready to communicate with people.

[289] I'm sure I must have said something, but it wasn't all like a party.

[290] You know, I'm spent.

[291] I just start to head toward the top.

[292] I just want to get out, you know, and I'm just crawling, pulling anything to get me out.

[293] And there's that point whenever you're caving that, you can see the very first glint of light.

[294] I'm like, oh, my God, there it is.

[295] And I just pulling and crawling.

[296] And finally, I get to the point where my head's out and then my shoulders.

[297] And finally, I'm able to stand up and take a breath.

[298] This is like the most relieved I've ever been in my entire life.

[299] Oh, wow.

[300] How long from being able to sit up to getting to the outside of the cave?

[301] Time is a little bit lost, but an hour plus, no dawdling, no doing anything.

[302] I was at the farthest bottom of the cave that any caver could go.

[303] Oh, did it change your desire to go caving?

[304] I have been since.

[305] I'm trying to think if I've been in a completely wild cave.

[306] You know, it took me a while to bring Charlie back into my semi -good graces.

[307] That's Charlie.

[308] He's kind of a prankster.

[309] Oh, my God.

[310] He's like a wabi -wob.

[311] He's a rascal.

[312] I'm telling this story to my 16 year old And she's like Dad, you're like putting all the blame on Charlie Nobody forced you to go in there It's all about choices, dad Wow, she's wise She flipped the script That's like what you tell your kids The world's full of Charlie's Who are you?

[313] You know, you only got control over you Not the Charlie's in the world Fuck the Charlies Well, well Not our Charlie perfect 10 Charlie Well he actually I feel like he might do that so yeah him well you can see where this guy's an adrenaline junkie he might have thought it was funny so he wrongly projected how he would take this joke which would be you son of a bitch almost killed me ha ha ha ha but john didn't feel that way so he misdiagnosed that made me tight of breath tight of chest i've been to mammoth cave as a kid they got a bow and arrow with some torches on the end they fired up into the corner of the cave it's pretty cool that's about the extent of which i think i will try any of this yeah i was chuckling earlier as I'm setting the thing up.

[314] But I start to tell that story when I'm in it and I can feel that it brings it back.

[315] Oh, yeah.

[316] Do you not have like rope tied to your ankle or anything?

[317] There's no safety protocol with this?

[318] To Charlie, it's such a mundane, fairly small cave.

[319] It's not super complex with 20 different passages.

[320] So yeah, that wasn't part of our protocol.

[321] Okay.

[322] Well, John, thanks for telling that story.

[323] If I were allowed to take Xanax, I would take one right now, but I'm not.

[324] But thank you so much for that story.

[325] That was harrowing.

[326] Good to meet the both of you.

[327] You guys take care.

[328] Bye.

[329] I kind of not going to be able to get through these.

[330] I think when I read the tell us about the worst place you've been stuck, I didn't mean literally.

[331] I didn't mean, no. I meant like you're having sex with your boss's wife.

[332] The boss comes home you're stuck in a closet.

[333] You wake up at Spencer's gifts.

[334] You're stuck in the store.

[335] We already had that.

[336] Well, okay, but I guess I underestimate that people be physically stuck.

[337] This is my worst nightmare.

[338] I would have never agreed to this prompt.

[339] That was definitely what it always was, because we talked about Ryan being stuck on the mountain.

[340] But even that one's not claustophobia.

[341] That one's better for me. Well, a little, though.

[342] I mean, it's not claustrophobia, but he was stuck there.

[343] The notion that you couldn't move your limbs is, just panic inducing for me. Yeah.

[344] Okay.

[345] Okay.

[346] Let's do Geneva.

[347] Hello.

[348] Can you hear us?

[349] Yes, I can hear you.

[350] Can you hear me?

[351] A plus student in her closet.

[352] I know.

[353] I love it.

[354] It's a beautiful closet too.

[355] Well organized.

[356] Thank you.

[357] You know, you didn't see before I had to literally remove all my sweatshirts and jeans from the shelf.

[358] It's great.

[359] You put these beautiful wicker baskets in and you know I don't like wicker, but these ones are quite appealing.

[360] Yeah, they're beautiful.

[361] Thank you so much.

[362] Is it Geneva?

[363] Geneva, yes, exactly.

[364] Just wonderful.

[365] Just like the convention.

[366] Sadly, that's not what I was named after.

[367] Okay, great.

[368] Where were you stuck?

[369] So this happened about five years ago in Costa Rica.

[370] I was invited to a family trip.

[371] It was my friend's extended family.

[372] So I was joining them, the grandmother, the aunt, uncles, siblings, parents, the whole gang, plus me. When we arrived there, you know, it was a beautiful house.

[373] pool overlooking the ocean.

[374] So excited.

[375] And when we arrived, my friend basically immediately became ill. She did not leave this rental for about three days.

[376] Gastrointestinal issue?

[377] Yes.

[378] Okay.

[379] Yeah.

[380] Well, dysentery.

[381] Yes.

[382] But the first day, she started to feel well.

[383] It was about four days into the trip.

[384] And we were like, you know what?

[385] We haven't spent much time together.

[386] let's take the paddle boards, which, you know, from last armchair anonymous episodes, we know paddle boards do not equal good scenario.

[387] True, true.

[388] So we carry these paddle boards that are part of the rental down to the beach.

[389] And we notice as we're walking down that there are a lot fewer boats on the water.

[390] There are a lot fewer swimmers than we've seen in previous days.

[391] You know, we haven't gone to the ocean much.

[392] We've been enjoying the pool.

[393] but when we arrive, it's pretty deserted almost.

[394] But we go, you know what?

[395] This is best case scenario, fewer people to run into.

[396] We step on these paddle boards, and I wish I was kidding when I tell you that in about 10 seconds flat, it feels like we're in the center of the ocean.

[397] Oh, my.

[398] Do either of you have any previous paddleboard experience?

[399] Somewhat.

[400] Okay.

[401] On a placid lake?

[402] Exactly.

[403] Ocean, different scenario.

[404] Yeah, different animal.

[405] We're in a little bit of a cove.

[406] So really our plan was to kind of explore the cove, come back, return.

[407] There's only two paddle boards.

[408] We want to give other people the opportunity to.

[409] Well, we are swept away to see so quickly that there is no returning.

[410] We start to panic a little bit.

[411] We get to the stage of, okay, what are we going to do?

[412] We're a fair distance about when we start to wave.

[413] our paddles around and try to signal to the people on the shore.

[414] This is not what we want.

[415] We don't want to be in the middle of the ocean.

[416] We're not in control.

[417] Yeah.

[418] So we're trying to paddle.

[419] We're on our knees.

[420] There's less for the wind to grab onto.

[421] Do you think that the wind primarily is what's driven you out there?

[422] Or is there a tide somehow?

[423] It's the wind.

[424] It is so windy.

[425] The force just carried us so far.

[426] Our paddle boards were in the direction of the sea, and we could not physically turn them around to start making your way back.

[427] Oh, my God.

[428] Oh, my God.

[429] Now, where are you?

[430] Yeah, I hate this.

[431] Yeah.

[432] We just talked to a guy trapped in a cave.

[433] I almost passed out.

[434] No. That's too much for me. I can't be trapped in a cave.

[435] This right now, I'm like, I'm at a two.

[436] I'm on a quotation device.

[437] Maybe I would swim back.

[438] I was about to say, were you considering swimming?

[439] Okay, well, this is the thing.

[440] We debated this, and we started to try, but we're still attached to the paddle boards that will not turn around.

[441] So even to try to swim and drag them behind us, it was just working against us.

[442] Even with us in the water was not working.

[443] And at this point, we can't see the shore.

[444] And we also start to think of what's in the water.

[445] Oh, my God.

[446] As we're dragging the paddle boards behind us, we start to think of the shark thing.

[447] I think honestly at that point, even if we had seen a dolphin, we would have been equally as freaked out because it just means there's things down there.

[448] So we went full disassociation.

[449] They might have wanted to have sex with you, too.

[450] While it may not have eaten you, it may have tried to make love to you, as you know.

[451] But then maybe you would have fallen in love and then you could have lived a life there.

[452] He could have told you into shore.

[453] You could have ridden him.

[454] We should have thought of us.

[455] This took me longer than normal, but are you Canadian?

[456] I am Canadian.

[457] Is it obvious?

[458] I caught you.

[459] A little bit.

[460] Well, also because you're so nice and organized.

[461] That wasn't my clue.

[462] Thank you, Monica.

[463] Just a hint of a note.

[464] Oh, no. We love our Canadian neighbors.

[465] Yeah, we love.

[466] Okay, let's get back to the horrible story.

[467] Okay, so you can't see shore at this point?

[468] No, we cannot see shore.

[469] So we also know at that point they cannot see us.

[470] And again, because this cove was primarily deserted, there was nobody else in the water to see us.

[471] There were no sailboats out there.

[472] that day.

[473] Because it was so windy, probably.

[474] Exactly.

[475] No other paddle boarders come rescue us.

[476] You know, at this point, we don't know what to do.

[477] We're trying the paddle thing.

[478] We're on our stomachs, trying with our hands.

[479] You know, you get to the point of we're just going to shrivel up here.

[480] This one probably been about 20 to 30 minutes, but it feels like it's been lifetimes.

[481] Yeah.

[482] Yeah.

[483] Your adrenaline's through the roof.

[484] Is anyone crying?

[485] We didn't get to the crying stage.

[486] But I would say we were very, very close.

[487] But of course I'm here.

[488] So the story, thankfully, has a happy ending.

[489] Yeah, that's the good news about these stories.

[490] Yeah, exactly.

[491] But eventually we see a boat coming toward us.

[492] And we also start to get a bit nervous for like, okay, this boat's coming toward us.

[493] How do people even know that we're out here?

[494] You know, what could this be?

[495] This boat starts coming toward us.

[496] And we see on the side of it, Costa Rica Coast Guard.

[497] Oh, thank heavens.

[498] Thank goodness.

[499] God, are you guys lucky?

[500] Then you just wave your paddles.

[501] Yeah, so we're waving our paddles and they load us into this boat and, you know, drag the paddle boards on top.

[502] And we're anxious to get back to shore at this point.

[503] We're like, start this boat.

[504] This show is over.

[505] We are just ready to touch the sand.

[506] But they ask us for our passport information.

[507] Wow.

[508] Wow.

[509] And you're like, well.

[510] Yeah, sorry, I don't have that.

[511] And they seem surprised we didn't have the number memorized.

[512] Isn't it like 40 digits, as I recall?

[513] I mean, it's a long number.

[514] Yeah, it's not one to memorize.

[515] It's longer than my credit card number.

[516] I'm like, here we are two 20 -somethings and bikinis.

[517] But, yeah, sorry, I don't have my pass first.

[518] So finally, they drop us to shore and we're walking back.

[519] And we're just so relieved at this point.

[520] But it ended up that it was all luck.

[521] They were actually going past us to, rescue somebody else and kind of saw us on the way by oh my god yeah we hit shore we got a good talking to from my friend's older sister and uh her parents yeah that's what you needed yeah exactly i love when people tell you after you've just experienced the worst possible consequence they then tell you what could go wrong do you know you could have been swept out yeah motherfucker that's exactly what i just experienced did i have a choice no yeah oh god Yeah.

[522] So let's just say there was a lot of Costa Rican beer had after that.

[523] Okay, deserved.

[524] Yeah.

[525] Well, Geneva, I'm so glad that Coast Guard happened by.

[526] I wonder.

[527] You need to find out who called in the first emergency to thank them.

[528] I mean, really, without the people who first got.

[529] They didn't make it insane.

[530] Oh, my God.

[531] Maybe they'll be next.

[532] Yeah, maybe they're the next on our list.

[533] That's happened before.

[534] Yeah.

[535] Oh, that'd be great.

[536] Wow.

[537] I'm glad you're alive.

[538] That's really scary.

[539] I would have, well, I never would have been out there in a paddle boat anyway, a paddleboard anyway.

[540] You don't even know what the paddleboard is.

[541] But that is my worst nightmare.

[542] Worse than being stuck in the cave?

[543] What's worse?

[544] That's really bad too, but water adds a different element to it.

[545] That's like I can't swim probably animals.

[546] Animals.

[547] Yeah, there's so much.

[548] Yeah.

[549] At any point were you thinking like, well, I should just drown.

[550] everything gets brought to shore eventually like did you have that thought i don't even know that that's true you know we were just worried though what shore would that be yeah where would you even be wow and how old would you be shut out i'm serious how old would you be what if it was 10 years later that you watched up like yilling's island oh my god i'm sorry that monica's made light of it was a very traumatic experience.

[551] I know that this was not an episode of Gilligan's Island.

[552] I'm serious.

[553] This is my nightmare.

[554] But we are this close to it being not.

[555] Who knows?

[556] Oh my God.

[557] Well, I'm glad you made it.

[558] Thank you.

[559] Do you think you'd ever paddleboard in the ocean again?

[560] Or is that a wrap for you?

[561] I think that's a wrap for me. We actually had to Mexico this week and I was thinking about this.

[562] I think I'll stick to paddleboarding in the pool if that's an option.

[563] But otherwise, yeah, I won't be going in the ocean.

[564] I think that's smart.

[565] This is what I don't understand about a lot of these stories we've had on Armchair Anonymous.

[566] People are in a very harrowing, like the campers who almost got eaten by the wolf and then even this cave guy.

[567] Like then they're back at it.

[568] I'm like, you guys.

[569] I can't really sling mud because I've had crashes at the track.

[570] Well, I had a crash at the track and I'm including you in that.

[571] Yeah, I know.

[572] I know.

[573] Geneva, thank you so much for sharing that story.

[574] Thank you both so much.

[575] It's such an honor to chat with you.

[576] Oh, thank you so much.

[577] Right back at you.

[578] Bye.

[579] Bye.

[580] What's up, guys?

[581] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[582] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[583] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[584] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[585] And I don't mean just friends.

[586] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[587] The list goes on.

[588] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[589] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[590] We've all been there.

[591] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[592] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[593] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[594] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[595] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[596] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[597] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[598] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[599] Oh, that was scary.

[600] Listen, we should call Eric.

[601] Oh my God, yeah.

[602] Yeah.

[603] Hey, Kama, are you around at like 2 .40 for us to interview you, question mark?

[604] Here comes Monica.

[605] Oh, no. You were going to do a song.

[606] Oh, I was going to do a song.

[607] Thank God you're here.

[608] You just saved Monica.

[609] Monica.

[610] I was about to sing a little bit of Tina Turner.

[611] Do you want to hear it?

[612] I'm dying to hear it.

[613] I have to go like this so Monica can't see me. You can see me, though, right?

[614] Other Monica?

[615] I can see you.

[616] Okay.

[617] I'm your private dancer.

[618] I'll dance out for money.

[619] I do what you want me to do.

[620] That's powerful.

[621] Thank you.

[622] Thank you.

[623] I don't have any of the notes, but I think I have the motionality.

[624] Do you have the words, right?

[625] Yeah.

[626] Don't I?

[627] I don't know.

[628] Oh, yeah.

[629] I'm your private dancer.

[630] I do what you want me to do.

[631] I don't know the words either, so that was perfect to me. Okay, so Monica, you found yourself stuck in a spot, in a space, in a place.

[632] Can you share with us what happened?

[633] I would be delighted.

[634] to share.

[635] Yeah.

[636] So this was in June of last year.

[637] I had just started a new new job.

[638] Things were starting to open up COVID -wise, but work was still remote.

[639] And so they kind of made it clear on the onboarding process that they didn't want to be remote for too long.

[640] And so when they said this, I was kind of like, you know what?

[641] I think this might be my last opportunity to be a nomad.

[642] And so I was like, great.

[643] I'm just going to set off on the road.

[644] Because I have to work simultaneously, I was like, I don't think I can drive.

[645] So I decided to do a cross -country by train trip.

[646] Oh, wow.

[647] Oh, okay.

[648] Romantic.

[649] Very romantic, very exciting.

[650] But the thing is, is I can't sleep on any kind of public transit, like planes, trains, cars, nothing.

[651] It's a lot of, like, overnight trains, especially Denver out to California.

[652] Are you ponying up for the sleeper car or you're trying to get the sleep done in a chair?

[653] That's the other thing.

[654] I'm doing this, like, as cheaply as possible.

[655] So I'm just in a chair.

[656] Also, masks are still required.

[657] So trying to sleep with a mask on.

[658] You can't breathe.

[659] Lucky you didn't die.

[660] What if your story was you were stuck in a mask?

[661] Stuck in your mask.

[662] Yeah.

[663] That could go this way.

[664] That night when I'm like traveling out to California, I don't sleep awake, I'm exhausted.

[665] I'm thinking by the time I hit California, I'm going to get a nice hotel and I'm going to like take a hot bath, hot shower.

[666] We are like way behind schedule.

[667] I only have one night in Sacramento.

[668] And I've been there a few times before, but I kind of wanted to like explore.

[669] So I love Redwoods.

[670] I think this is really cool.

[671] It turns out it's like a two hour drive from where my hotel is.

[672] I was going to say quite a hike from Sacramento.

[673] I drive a lot.

[674] Like I have a two hour commute to work.

[675] That's nothing to me. Okay.

[676] That's baby shit.

[677] Baby something.

[678] Yeah, okay.

[679] Exactly.

[680] So I'm like, oh, you know, I end work at three because I'm on East Coast time.

[681] Two hour drive.

[682] I can be there at five.

[683] The park closes at six.

[684] And so I can be back at the hotel by 8 p .m. It's going to be amazing.

[685] Then I'll have a wonderful night.

[686] Everything starts working kind of perfectly.

[687] You know, I look up how to get to the mirror once.

[688] You need a parking pass.

[689] And there's only one opening, one parking spot for the exact time that I would need to go.

[690] I'm like perfect.

[691] I end up downloading like a zip car app.

[692] They approve me right away.

[693] You just upload your license.

[694] I'm literally on the phone with my sister on the drive -over, and I'm just raving about how perfectly this is all going.

[695] I'm like a commercial for Zipcar.

[696] Yeah, sure.

[697] So I finally get to the woods.

[698] Let's take half a second to say.

[699] Mirror Woods is one of the most epic places you could ever go in your life, right?

[700] It's incredible, incredible.

[701] And the timing was amazing because the sun was starting to set.

[702] And so the light rays were like piercing.

[703] It's almost like godlike.

[704] It's like incredible.

[705] They've bisected some of the trees, and they have them on display, right?

[706] This is my favorite part of Muir Woods.

[707] And then they put on the timeline, Monica, on pieces of paper on the rings, it'll say Declaration Independence.

[708] Oh, that's cool.

[709] Mayflower.

[710] Jesus.

[711] Wow.

[712] I mean, these trees are so old.

[713] It's like looking at ancestors.

[714] It's incredible.

[715] I end up staying a little later than I wanted to.

[716] And so as I'm leaving, kind of everything is closed.

[717] The parking lots are empty.

[718] The visitor center is closed.

[719] I'm passing park rangers as they're all.

[720] on their way home.

[721] And I'm down at like an overflow lot all the way in the back of the parking lot.

[722] And so I'm walking down there and of course the car won't start.

[723] There's no cell service.

[724] This is like a very remote area.

[725] And I also have no battery left.

[726] So I start kind of making my way up to the visitor center.

[727] I'm walking around the park.

[728] I'm just like holding my phone in all these kind of weird positions trying to get like one single bar of service.

[729] Finally get one up near the entrance.

[730] I call Zipcar and they're like, oh yeah, you can't start the car if you don't have cell phone service.

[731] What?

[732] And I was like, what?

[733] So they're like, okay, we're going to need to get a tow truck out there.

[734] So they're like, we'll call you back in like 20 minutes.

[735] I'm like, great, except my phone's about to die.

[736] So I'm sitting there and I'm like, I don't know what to do.

[737] All of a sudden, everything turns sinister.

[738] The sun goes down, clouds roll in, a storm comes, the fog rolls in.

[739] It's like pitch black all of a sudden.

[740] And so my heart starts pounding and I end up getting one last call.

[741] And they're like, yeah, we can't get a tow truck.

[742] Oh, my God.

[743] He just kind of like hung up.

[744] And I was just like sitting there.

[745] And I think I had a lot of two minutes to just like crying as hard as I could.

[746] And then I was like, okay, I need to buckle up.

[747] I need to do something.

[748] Yeah.

[749] Time for grieving's over.

[750] Time for actions now.

[751] Oh, my God.

[752] I'm from the Appalachian Trail area.

[753] But even I am like the one out of all my, like I was always the one that was like on edge.

[754] I used to have nightmares about my headlights going out or my flashlight going out.

[755] you have the wrong disposition for this exactly and so at that point i'm like oh that's why i was having all those nightmares as a kid that was eventually how i was going to die premonition exactly so i finally get out of the car and i just start making a run for it where very hilly there too everyone should know very hilly it is very hilly and so i just start running down the road at one point i mean i can't even tell you how scared i was like it was pitch black it was pouring rain.

[756] I couldn't see anything because it was so foggy too at this point.

[757] Under different circumstances would be like the most enchanted visual ever, this beautiful majestic forest and fog and mist and rain, but not now.

[758] Exactly.

[759] And it's about three miles down the road that I finally, in the distance, see this like warm, glowing kind of street lamp.

[760] And so I get there and it looks kind of like it could be like a restaurant or like a little bed and breakfast.

[761] So I go over there and I knock on the door.

[762] And of course, no one answers.

[763] The door's locked.

[764] So I just like sat down on the steps and I'm just sitting there and I'm shivering and I'm just like crying again.

[765] Then I hear maybe like an hour later a car pull in from the back driveway and so I sprint around to the back.

[766] They had just gone inside.

[767] So I start pounding at the door and they turn around and it's like a couple about my age that had just gone into the building and they turned around and the look on their face made me like very aware all of a sudden of how I looked, which was insane.

[768] They kind of hesitate for like a second but then they end up letting me in.

[769] I explain the story and they're like, why don't you stay in the lobby or something and we'll vouch for you if anyone comes back.

[770] And so I get into this building and this is another one of those things where in a normal situation, this would be so quaint and so cute.

[771] But in the mindset I was in right now, it was like the worst place to me because it turns out this was like an old guest house.

[772] It felt haunted.

[773] It felt terrifying.

[774] I start looking for any way to get home at this point.

[775] I finally get Uber to work.

[776] I don't even have like a picture.

[777] I have no reviews.

[778] And I'm like a little dot in the middle of the woods asking to be driven two hours away in the middle of the night.

[779] Like, I look like the murderer here.

[780] So how'd you get out of here?

[781] So at around 5am, I found like a car company.

[782] It was kind of like an elite car company.

[783] They were 24 -7 and they had a messaging up on their website, thank God.

[784] So I was able to like talk to them.

[785] They told me if you have an iPhone, you can change your settings and you can make calls via Wi -Fi.

[786] Oh, sure.

[787] Oh, God.

[788] What have been nice to know.

[789] Well, Monica, I'm so glad you made.

[790] out of the scary forest alive it's a little bit reminiscent of red riding hood and some of the other fables about young blonde gales in the woods you're yeah a little reminiscent short suffice to say you got back to sacramento obviously in one piece i will say the car costs more than getting a cross -country altogether i imagine a two -hour trip in the bay area in a town car has got to be in the several hundreds of dollars yeah many many several hundred Oh my God.

[791] Well, Monica, I'm glad you're safe.

[792] You made it out alive.

[793] Thank you so much for sharing that story with us.

[794] I hope this doesn't curb your appetite to travel an adventure.

[795] Not at all.

[796] I've done it many times since.

[797] Oh, wonderful.

[798] Wonderful.

[799] Well, nice meeting you, Monica.

[800] Nice meeting you.

[801] Take care.

[802] You're always trying to get me to cut those trees down and that's why I don't want to.

[803] Because your zip car won't work.

[804] No, because like Jesus times.

[805] Oh, because of the history.

[806] Yeah.

[807] You feel like it's disrespectful to the years.

[808] Okay.

[809] Well, then keep them.

[810] All right.

[811] All right.

[812] Oh.

[813] Oh.

[814] Solid gold.

[815] So, yes, the call -in topic was places you found yourself stuck.

[816] Right.

[817] And so one of them that gave me enormous anxiety was a dude spilunking.

[818] Yeah.

[819] Getting in a fucking tunnel and couldn't move is claustophobic.

[820] Oh, it was the worst.

[821] And then Monica remembered...

[822] Yeah, because there was another person who had a water experience.

[823] Paddleboard mix up.

[824] Got sucked out to the ocean on paddle boards.

[825] Oh, yeah, with that rip current?

[826] Oh, it was the wind in this case, it turns out.

[827] How long was the Splunker guy stuck?

[828] He said he thinks only like 30 minutes of actual stuck, but he was down there for a long time.

[829] He said he was in a panic attack for 30 minutes where he couldn't even talk to the other people that were deeper in the cave.

[830] Oh, right, right, right.

[831] And then calm down finally.

[832] and then started...

[833] Being able to, like, one millimeter scoches.

[834] Scratching his back.

[835] Like in a coffin.

[836] Okay, so what year did yours?

[837] This was like 32 years ago because I was 20 years old.

[838] This is my first year of junior college.

[839] Wait, we have to set up Eric a little.

[840] I feel like we haven't.

[841] Well, I was going to, in the intro, I'll go, you know, Eric, who we talk about nonstop, who loves Monica's feet, will be joining us.

[842] But you're taunting Eric right now.

[843] You had shoes on when Eric.

[844] Oh, my God.

[845] See, the perfect, perfect little feet.

[846] I took my shoes off for air.

[847] They're nice and brown.

[848] Did you hear that I was, has it gotten back to you that I've.

[849] Want you to lick them?

[850] I haven't, I said.

[851] I told them.

[852] Okay, yeah, I said that.

[853] Yeah, I'm excited.

[854] So this story involves one of your buddies.

[855] Can we use his name?

[856] Would he give a shit?

[857] His name's Kevin, Kevin Brown.

[858] Okay.

[859] He was the same guy I almost got killed with in the paragliding accident, but that's a a story for another day.

[860] Right.

[861] We'll do a paragliding debacle episode and we'll get you back.

[862] He was kind of adventurous and I'm not as adventurous so I would just kind of do what he came up with.

[863] Yeah.

[864] He had bought a Hobie Cat Catamaran which is like two pontoons and there's like a trampoline in the middle, right?

[865] Yeah, it's not like a sailboat with a hole.

[866] It's two little outriggers and a trampoline in the middle.

[867] And they're meant for lakes, I think, like little lakes.

[868] And they're very fast, right?

[869] That's their appeal.

[870] They're quick.

[871] Yeah, well, some of them are racing ones.

[872] But this was kind of a junker one.

[873] So he told me to get to the Oxnard Harbor at 4 in the morning.

[874] So I got there at 4 in the morning.

[875] And my parents didn't know where we were.

[876] And he said, just bring some beer.

[877] So we just brought two cases of beer.

[878] Okay.

[879] And showed up and put all the beer in the catamaran.

[880] We didn't bring any food.

[881] We didn't bring any water.

[882] We didn't bring any clothes.

[883] We didn't bring a radio.

[884] And he said, we're going to sail out to Antipa Island.

[885] How far is that?

[886] Yeah.

[887] Like 14 miles out.

[888] Through the Pacific Ocean.

[889] Right.

[890] Right, right, right, through a shipping lane.

[891] It's part of the Channel Islands.

[892] So we go out, you know, we started drinking probably at sunrise.

[893] It took most of the day to get out there.

[894] I think most people would have just figured out we know each other through sobriety.

[895] Right.

[896] Yeah, 100%.

[897] If they didn't know before, now they definitely do.

[898] Did he have any sailing experience or what was the extent?

[899] He had bought the catamaran probably a couple months before.

[900] And he was new to sailing at that point.

[901] He was new to sailing at this time.

[902] But believe it or not, at the end of the story, He ends up buying a full -on sailboat and going sailing around the world for four years.

[903] Wow.

[904] I just never wanted to get on a sailboat.

[905] Oh, my God.

[906] Yeah.

[907] So it's funny how it's different.

[908] But we were cruising around drinking and kind of zigzagging back and forth.

[909] And when we were, I don't know, probably a quarter mile off of Anacapa at probably like two or three in the afternoon, it flipped over.

[910] And usually when it flips over with a camera and you're supposed to like lean back with ropes and it flips.

[911] back over.

[912] But one of the pontoons had a leak, and so we couldn't get it right size.

[913] How did it flip?

[914] They normally flip.

[915] Like, you turn too fast or something.

[916] Big gust of wind.

[917] They don't have a keel.

[918] They don't have anything at the bottom.

[919] There's no counterweight.

[920] So it's like it just goes up on the pontoon.

[921] And the whole time you're sailing it, the pontoons are coming out of the water.

[922] Right.

[923] You get used to it, and then you just go past the point another time.

[924] And you kind of want to see how far you can get it out of the water.

[925] And then if you go too far, That's what I'm asking.

[926] Are you guys pushing the limits?

[927] Okay, hot dogging.

[928] Maybe a little bit of hot dogging, especially we're probably on the second case of beer by now.

[929] Exactly.

[930] Okay.

[931] So it's flipped over.

[932] So we spend, I don't know, two or three hours trying to get it right size.

[933] And Kevin was getting super frustrated because you're supposed to be able to right size it fairly easy.

[934] And so we tried, we kept trying, we kept trying.

[935] Hours are going by.

[936] We're in the water.

[937] Now it starts to get towards sunset.

[938] Oh.

[939] And so I decide.

[940] I'm going to swim to Anna Kappa because we're all between like a quarter of a mile and a half a mile away.

[941] I'm a pretty good swimmer.

[942] I'm 20 years old.

[943] I surf.

[944] Pretty drunk.

[945] We're a little bit of restimating your billies by at least three eggs.

[946] Right, right, right, right.

[947] For three hours, you had just been treading water?

[948] No, because the catamaran was there and it was floating.

[949] You know, we were trying to get it back.

[950] Sometimes we'd be treading water, but we could also hold on to the cadmaran when we were trying to get it right -sized.

[951] The boat didn't sink.

[952] Right, but so you're just holding on to the boat sometimes.

[953] Right.

[954] trying to get it right side.

[955] Kevin says, no, dude, you can't swim back.

[956] It's like a great white feeding ground because you have all the seals off of anacapa.

[957] So it's well known as a feeding place for great white starts.

[958] And he's like, you're also going against the current.

[959] And I came really close to just saying, I can swim there.

[960] I know I can swim there.

[961] I'm shocked, in fact, you didn't.

[962] Knowing you?

[963] Yeah.

[964] And then deducting 32 years of wisdom, it's shocking you didn't.

[965] Right.

[966] I'm not sure why I listened.

[967] But now it's dark.

[968] Yeah.

[969] And we're on an, a upside -down catamaran.

[970] So it was really cold.

[971] It just kept getting colder and colder.

[972] And my pontoon that I'm on is the leaky one for some reason.

[973] So it's like more in the water than his.

[974] And, you know, the first couple hours, we kept convincing ourselves that there were helicopters in the distance.

[975] And we convinced ourselves those helicopters were looking for us.

[976] But unfortunately, I didn't tell my parents I was going anywhere.

[977] Yeah.

[978] They didn't even know where I was.

[979] And he told his parents he was going out in Orange County.

[980] So they didn't know where we were.

[981] Was all the beer lost when the boat flipped over?

[982] No, we still had some.

[983] We weren't drinking at night because now we're pretty scared.

[984] So there's a partial moon and there's stars out.

[985] We were both looking straight down into the water.

[986] At like 2 o 'clock, a seal started barking, which was interesting.

[987] Because now we're pretty far off of Anna Kappa.

[988] We're like drifting away.

[989] There's like a lighthouse on Anacab, but you can see.

[990] So there's a seal that would start barking, and then we would bark back at it.

[991] And that was kind of like fun for a little bit.

[992] Past the time a little bit.

[993] Took your mind off the reality.

[994] And we were pretty sure it was trying to save us.

[995] But then at some point, the seal stopped barking.

[996] And just a huge white thing that had to be 20 or 30 feet long, just went right under the boat.

[997] No. I didn't know this part.

[998] And I said, Kevin, did you see that?

[999] And he's like, yeah, dude, I saw it.

[1000] Just stay still.

[1001] Kevin sounds cool under fire.

[1002] Yeah, he's definitely.

[1003] Kevin's built for this.

[1004] Kevin made this whole plan.

[1005] He fucked up.

[1006] He fucked up.

[1007] But he also sounds cool under fire.

[1008] He's definitely cool under fire.

[1009] Eric's sitting here because he talks about him out of.

[1010] Yeah, you're right.

[1011] At this point, I'm like, God, if you get me out of this, I will become a better person.

[1012] I will be nicer to girls.

[1013] friends, and I was my first year of junior college, so I'm like, I will get good grades because I was at the bottom of my class in high school, and I just didn't care.

[1014] But I'm like, I will try to do something with my life if I can get out of this, please.

[1015] That makes me sad.

[1016] Because he did.

[1017] Oh, yeah.

[1018] So I guess it makes me happy.

[1019] Yeah, you go.

[1020] Well, that's why Kevin was probably a blessing in my life, right?

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] Yeah.

[1023] Well, he got you in two pretty perilous situations, but go ahead.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] And so it was so helpless.

[1026] There's nothing you could do no matter how smart you are, no matter how creative you are, you're just stuck sitting hour after hour after hour, thinking about how you got in this situation.

[1027] And it was so cold and uncomfortable.

[1028] Here's what I'm going to add for color, too.

[1029] You have a pretty high tolerance for discomfort.

[1030] Like you and I cold plunge together.

[1031] I'm always shocked with how willing you are to be uncomfortable.

[1032] You have a good makeup for this.

[1033] The only thing I can remember that was as bad maybe as opiate withdrawal, you know, where you're just sitting there and it's like itchy and you can't do anything, sweating.

[1034] Trapped in your own body.

[1035] You're trapped.

[1036] The night went and came and then the sun came up.

[1037] Did you fall asleep at any time?

[1038] No, no, no, never fell asleep.

[1039] Not even close.

[1040] Whoa.

[1041] And we're just so happy when you had to pee, you know, because you like pee all over yourself.

[1042] Be warm for a second.

[1043] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1044] And so the next morning comes, the sun comes up.

[1045] And then we got a little bit more optimistic, like, okay, well, somebody.

[1046] is going to find us.

[1047] There's helicopters out in the distance.

[1048] And we're in us like a shipping lane off the coast.

[1049] So one of those big shipping container boats will see us like the guy gone castaway got saved, remember?

[1050] So then our tongues started getting kind of big because we were so thirsty and we didn't have any water and we kept getting salt water in our mouth.

[1051] And that's when around noon I started to get that panic feeling like, oh, this is a good chance we were going to die.

[1052] Why would anybody be looking here?

[1053] I mean, this is 30 hours into it.

[1054] Wow.

[1055] So the day goes by, and then it starts getting dark again.

[1056] It starts getting to sunset.

[1057] This is making me, I don't think I've heard you tell it this way.

[1058] I'm trying to see if there's an analogy you can make.

[1059] Like, that 36 hours has to feel like 190 hours or something, right?

[1060] It must just...

[1061] Because each minute.

[1062] Maybe when you're, like, you're working out really hard and you're like, okay, one more minute or one more minute.

[1063] I mean, in my head, it was like two years, you know?

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] And it was only a night and a day and a day.

[1066] But it just took forever.

[1067] And it was just that feeling of why did I get myself into this position?

[1068] I'm such a idiot.

[1069] You read about this in the newspaper, but you don't understand how they feel, you know, of that panic feeling.

[1070] How did I get myself here?

[1071] And I probably thought I deserved it.

[1072] I go through stuff that I did, you know, and then beat myself up.

[1073] Were you talking to your friend?

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] Were you guys chatting?

[1076] Did you guys have any of those like moments you have in movies where it's like super bonding?

[1077] Well, yeah.

[1078] Are you saying you love each other and stuff?

[1079] No. Internally, I think we had one feeling, but I think we were both trying to keep each other positive.

[1080] Right.

[1081] Like, oh, we'll try to figure this out.

[1082] At some point on the second day, as it started to get darker, I think we both felt we couldn't survive another night.

[1083] And we were really, really thirsty because we were in the sun all day.

[1084] And we were kind of like, oh, boy, we may be fucked.

[1085] Oh, and this is the other thing, is we were just drifting farther and farther out to sea.

[1086] We're now miles and miles from Anacapa.

[1087] The entire time, we were trying to paddle back to shore back to the mainland because there's these two buildings in Oxnard, taller buildings.

[1088] You could just see, like, the very pinprick of them.

[1089] And so we would be paddling the whole time.

[1090] And that kind of kept this occupied.

[1091] But we weren't going.

[1092] We kept going farther to farther and farther out.

[1093] You're just getting more and more dehydrated.

[1094] Exactly.

[1095] Didn't do any good.

[1096] And then we heard a motor.

[1097] Kevin looks up and he says, look, there's a helicopter.

[1098] And lo and behold, it's one of those Navy two -propped helicopter.

[1099] Yeah.

[1100] And it went pretty close to us.

[1101] And we were both waving, waving, waving.

[1102] Then it went by.

[1103] and it kept going straight, and then it looped.

[1104] So we're like, oh, my God.

[1105] Oh, my God.

[1106] It loops, and then it takes a couple loops around us, and one of those frog guys got on a ladder and he lowered down and jumped in the water.

[1107] Look the fuck out.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] From the military helicopter.

[1110] From the military helicopter.

[1111] Wow.

[1112] And I guess they're authorized to save people who are dying or something.

[1113] Who are their last minute?

[1114] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because there wasn't a whole lot of time before it got dark, dark, and pulled us up, and we went back to the naval base, and they checked us all out, and you were fine, technically.

[1115] Yeah, it was just, like, dehydrated, and I remember we went to the in -and -out hamburger on, off the 101 freeway.

[1116] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like four in and out.

[1117] Did your parents pick you up from the naval spot?

[1118] No, I think they just drove us back to the harbor.

[1119] I mean, my parents didn't.

[1120] even though I was gone yet.

[1121] Oh, the army drove you back to the harbor.

[1122] The Navy.

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] Oh.

[1125] And they did like a whole interview with us and then we were in the newspaper.

[1126] Oh.

[1127] They did a thing like how people survive in those situations.

[1128] Kind of worth it then.

[1129] What you say?

[1130] I don't think we did anything to survive.

[1131] I mean, we drank a couple of extra beers maybe the next day.

[1132] I mean, I don't, I guess the good thing is we didn't panic, I guess.

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] We didn't eat each other or kill each other.

[1135] Sounds like you were started to panic when you were going to swim to shore, but he wrangled you in.

[1136] Yeah.

[1137] Think how he would feel if he was returning in that helicopter.

[1138] They were like, are you alone?

[1139] And he would be like, no. Oh, God.

[1140] Oh, my God.

[1141] Situations like that, like, I definitely wouldn't do it differently because it totally changed the path of my life.

[1142] And I totally got more motivated.

[1143] I got good grades in junior college after that.

[1144] And they went to college and then went to law school.

[1145] And I don't think I would have gotten.

[1146] a fire under my ass.

[1147] Really?

[1148] That really did.

[1149] It definitely did.

[1150] I don't have the feeling as much anymore, but for a few years afterwards, I remembered how scared I was, and I was like, I told some kind of God up there that I would make my life worthwhile if I live, so I better do something or he's going to get me and kill me in a car crash or something.

[1151] Okay, so that was the motivation, because I could see waking up from the whole thing and going, oh, my God, I almost lost my life.

[1152] I still have it.

[1153] now I want to make something of it.

[1154] But yours was much more the obligation to the spirits that you'd made.

[1155] Yeah, I had a debt now.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] How did it change Kevin?

[1158] Well, it didn't.

[1159] I mean, like I said, he bought a boat and went like four years.

[1160] He was doing crazy stuff.

[1161] He'd be in like New Zealand working as a migrant farmer picking lettuce or something.

[1162] I mean, he would do like all kinds of interesting things for years and years.

[1163] Is he handsome?

[1164] He wasn't bad.

[1165] Yeah, okay.

[1166] Yeah, he had long brown hair, pretty brown hair.

[1167] Envious brown hair.

[1168] Straight, pin straight.

[1169] A little wavy.

[1170] Oh, okay.

[1171] Just the right amount of body.

[1172] Right, right, right.

[1173] Oh, my God.

[1174] And then I had a relationship with him all the way through meeting Molly.

[1175] And then some other kind of bad things happened.

[1176] But I do talk to him on Instagram sometimes.

[1177] And he's the type of guy like I know we'll be friends again at some point.

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] I know we'll be close again at some point.

[1180] Now, did the paragliding happen before or after the shipwreck?

[1181] Way after, because it was with Molly.

[1182] Oh, yeah.

[1183] It's like your guys' second date or something, right?

[1184] Right.

[1185] Yeah, that was years.

[1186] That was probably 12 years later.

[1187] I guess we're talking about it so much.

[1188] We just have to say minimally you crashed a paraglider on your date.

[1189] Right.

[1190] But she wasn't in it.

[1191] She wasn't in it.

[1192] She didn't go.

[1193] She was there, though.

[1194] She was, she was paragliding with somebody else.

[1195] Tandum.

[1196] Right, right.

[1197] And then I crashed like 300 feet in the air and then, twirled into a Manzania tree and crashed through the Manzania tree.

[1198] Like Rambo.

[1199] Yeah, and then crashed into another bush below that.

[1200] And somehow I didn't die.

[1201] Not to mention, basically your first -ish date was you got hit by a bus.

[1202] I mean, a taxi.

[1203] You got hit by a taxi in New York.

[1204] And so Molly was just wheeling.

[1205] Me around in a wheelchair.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] My goodness, we're so lucky to have you.

[1208] And for the record, I mean, I guess if I was a. in the audience.

[1209] I was like, what's this Molly Gale like that she was willing to put up with this?

[1210] You know, Molly's a stone cold 10.

[1211] A hundred percent.

[1212] Master's degree.

[1213] Brilliant, smart, generous, and a knockout.

[1214] What the hell was she willing?

[1215] It's insane.

[1216] We call her AI because she's so perfect.

[1217] Well, it was kind of fun, though, in your wheelchair.

[1218] Like, let's go out to dinner and, you know, go to a play in the wheelchair.

[1219] Watch me fall through a tree.

[1220] You're so fun.

[1221] You get to stay in the wheelchair.

[1222] section.

[1223] You're the fun.

[1224] You're the most fun.

[1225] You are.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] Do you think in any way I've replaced Kevin in that?

[1228] Like, I take you off -roading.

[1229] I was thinking that.

[1230] And yeah, I feel very safe when I'm with you.

[1231] You're much more keeping everybody safe all the time.

[1232] But you do do things like go to Glamis and go in a sand cart, which I would never do.

[1233] I think I probably look for friends who will take me out of my comfort zone because I'll just stay home and play video games and play with the kids.

[1234] Oh, yeah, such a bad life, playing with your kids.

[1235] Well, I love you, Eric.

[1236] I don't think anyone's talked about quite as much on this show other than probably best friend Aaron Weekly.

[1237] So I'm so glad you got to come in and tell a story.

[1238] And your relationship with Aaron has actually made me think I got to rekindle my relationship with Kevin at some point because we have so much history and background.

[1239] And he's got kids now and I'm sure he's not jumping off of tall shit anymore.

[1240] No, I'm sure he's doing fun stuff.

[1241] And plus, I think I'm older now where I just would not.

[1242] get myself into yeah i mean i do need to think for myself at some point yeah right right so i don't think kevin was like at fault for any of this yeah he just made it look so cool with that long brown hair right and he had good ideas like let's cheat on the paragliding test and could get the teacher's answers so yeah great ideas oh my gosh i love you i love you guys Thank you so much.

[1243] I'm going to go take Lily to Universal City Walk.

[1244] Have fun.

[1245] Bye.

[1246] Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[1247] We want to sing a tune or something?

[1248] Oh.

[1249] Okay, great.

[1250] We don't have a thing song for this new show.

[1251] So here I go, go, go.

[1252] We're going to ask some random questions.

[1253] And with the help of our Jerry's book, it's new suggestion.

[1254] On the fly, Ryan Fish.

[1255] on the fire rindish enjoy Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts You can listen to every episode of Armchair expert early And ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app Or on Apple Podcasts.

[1256] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey