Joy Bryant Returns

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Monsoon.

[3] You know, it's so cute.

[4] The other day, your daughter, she was playing a guessing game with me. At one point, I said, I don't know.

[5] You'll have to tell me. And she said, do you quit?

[6] And I said, yeah.

[7] And she said, but you're a shepherd.

[8] Oh, I didn't know that.

[9] Because shepherds don't quit.

[10] Yeah.

[11] Oh, boy.

[12] Monica Monsoon Shepard Your favorite meteorologist That's me Well today we have your other favorite meteorologist Joy Bryant returning Oh my television wife My good good friend And someone I like to have lots of debates with Sure I should say someone I like to lose lots of debates too You know her from parenthood Get Rich or Die trying Antoine Fisher about last night And she has a new show We're network siblings now On ABC Tuesdays at 10 p .m. 9th Central for Life.

[13] Very cool show, doing very well.

[14] I urge everyone to check out for Life on Tuesdays at 10 p .m. 9 Central on ABC.

[15] Please enjoy Joy Bryant.

[16] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[17] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[18] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[19] Get comfy Oh yeah, I'm gonna get comfy Get real comfy There it is I forgot my socks Okay good The nails are done too The toenails Oh yeah I said I have to step my shit up Living in New York Wait you live in New York I mean Sort of kind of She's shooting there on a show Oh Thank you That's fun Yeah Oh Monica bought the house across the street No way She's gonna live 12 feet away.

[20] Stop it.

[21] I did.

[22] It's not just white people money.

[23] I represent.

[24] That's right.

[25] Bring in some diversity to the neighborhood.

[26] Well, Joy just looked at the house and she said, mm, that white people money is good.

[27] Damn, damn.

[28] Damn, damn, damn.

[29] By the way, to Ken Whittingham tell you that I work with the lady from 227.

[30] I mean, she was the oldest member of 227 then.

[31] No. Yes.

[32] No. He told me that.

[33] Oh, Delta.

[34] That she wanted him to be her dad and you to be the granddad.

[35] Yes.

[36] And she sent him a video saying, I love you, Ken, and I want you to be my dad.

[37] Oh, my God.

[38] Oh, my God.

[39] That is the best.

[40] Wait, you're going to be her granddad.

[41] I'm going to be Ken's dad, which is exciting.

[42] Monica, Joy lives in New York.

[43] Well, first, welcome back Joy.

[44] I mean, like, I'm kind of technically my coastal, I guess, you know what I'm saying?

[45] I'm not really mad at that.

[46] Yeah, how much time are you spending there very?

[47] is here.

[48] I was there since like late August.

[49] I mean, I came back a couple of times.

[50] I got a place here.

[51] I got a place here.

[52] Wait, was that so hard fucking concept.

[53] You got my house.

[54] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[55] Listen, listen, listen.

[56] I don't got white people money, but I got three, I got two houses and shit too.

[57] Okay.

[58] You understand?

[59] Here's what I'm wondering, though, because I thought you had gone there to work.

[60] I did.

[61] What's becoming apparent to me is that you're just there.

[62] Because I'm working.

[63] And my husband, Dave, Dave works there too.

[64] So he flies in and out.

[65] So I don't really got to jet back all the time.

[66] You know what I'm saying?

[67] I'm there.

[68] In the weather, you're fine.

[69] You're loving.

[70] No, I hate the weather.

[71] So what are you doing there?

[72] I'm working.

[73] Okay, I saw you on some show with a bunch of women talking about drumming.

[74] One of the the shows, the real.

[75] And you were talking about drumming.

[76] Did you play for them?

[77] No. You didn't.

[78] So I have a drum set downstairs, by the way.

[79] So we should definitely jam before you go.

[80] Yes, please.

[81] But I was thinking, if you put me on TV and said, go, I would panic.

[82] No, I mean, I played on Colbert.

[83] Oh, that's right.

[84] And that was high stress because they threw me in as the, I thought it was like, if anything, like, I'd like, all right, I'm going to start a groove and like, you know.

[85] Sure, sure.

[86] They'll join it because they're professional musicians.

[87] They can do shit like that.

[88] But they threw me in as the band was playing and just like, like, I'm just going to.

[89] Mid song.

[90] That was hell of stressful.

[91] But I did it.

[92] You did it.

[93] You did it because my teachers like don't even trip.

[94] Like you can play any song that pops up.

[95] I'm like, I can't.

[96] you can do anything.

[97] I was like, oh, my God, okay.

[98] But you mostly also play an electric kit, right?

[99] No, I have a real kit.

[100] I know you got a real kit.

[101] I'm asking what percentage of the time are you playing the real kit versus the electric kit?

[102] Well, now that I'm in New York...

[103] You're very defensive.

[104] I'm just trying to figure out where you live and how often you play your electric drum set.

[105] I had like a travel electronic kick.

[106] Right.

[107] But I have like a real drum set at home in L .A. I've seen that.

[108] Paris drums is really dope.

[109] Five custom shit.

[110] Very boutique.

[111] Yes, exactly.

[112] Yeah, very unbrand for you.

[113] In New York, I have a roll in, not the portable one, but not the full -on massive electronics.

[114] I kind of got the one in the middle.

[115] I forgot which one it is.

[116] But I put it together myself, and it was leaning.

[117] Okay.

[118] And so I was leaning when I was playing until Dave came and fixed it.

[119] And then it just, you know, he just turned one thing.

[120] I'm like, that tight.

[121] Can I ask how frequently you're playing?

[122] I mean, at least a couple times a week.

[123] Do you like doing it after you smoke dope?

[124] Yeah.

[125] Are you better or worse, if you're stuck?

[126] Just different.

[127] Just different.

[128] Like, I'm not smoking that much weed in New York.

[129] Oh, really?

[130] Why?

[131] I'm black and I'm renting.

[132] Yeah.

[133] Red flags.

[134] It's a big red flag.

[135] I can go, I do go outside and smoke a joint, but I don't want to go out, you know, like.

[136] Yeah, but I want the truth.

[137] So when you go to rent something, is black an issue?

[138] I think it could be.

[139] I think my quote unquote celebrity status helps in many ways.

[140] Yeah.

[141] But I'm a black person renting.

[142] Uh -huh.

[143] So I'm not trying to fuck.

[144] it up.

[145] So point is, when I'm home in L .A., I do what I want.

[146] So, yes, I do smoke.

[147] Uh -huh.

[148] Here at home.

[149] And I do like to play, but I have to also learn how to play Knottstone, right?

[150] In case you're ever on Colbert and they just pop you in.

[151] Exactly.

[152] Right.

[153] A little wine.

[154] A little bit of red wine.

[155] Red wine and a little toky -toke is always a good combination for a lot of things.

[156] A real one -two punch.

[157] For a lot of things.

[158] Oh, what other things?

[159] Is that your lovemaking cocktail?

[160] No. Oh, wait a minute.

[161] Yeah, actually.

[162] It's a kind of an, it's a kind of an, like serve the gods because I can write to it but I can't write too stoned or too drunk but like a little bit of this a little bit of that just right there sweet spot bam and then at night in the daytime it's coffee right but you're a very moderate person I would say if I had I would describe you as moderate because let me just say two beers makes you a better pool player and then it's kind of neutral to about four or five beers then beyond five beers the pool playing ability goes down like you need it's great to get a little loose and not overthink it and then you you get sloppy.

[163] Yeah.

[164] There's a sweet spot.

[165] And what I've observed with you is that you kind of live in the sweet spot.

[166] It's because I'm older.

[167] I'm trying to think the most stone I've ever seen you.

[168] We went to a movie one time and you were hanging on by a thread.

[169] I went to sleep.

[170] I don't like being stoned with too many people who are not stoned.

[171] You know what I'm saying?

[172] I don't want to be around crowds.

[173] Yeah.

[174] I like to be in a space that's like a controlled environment, chill.

[175] It's just don't want to be around mad people.

[176] Makes me like paranoid.

[177] Well, and now that brings me to the last time we saw each other in real life, which was at that enormous event for ABC, both promoting our shows, your show for life.

[178] Y 'all.

[179] My show, Bless This Mass. Yes.

[180] I asked at one point, but there was like a thousand people there or something.

[181] There's some astronomical amount of people.

[182] And then we found each other.

[183] And what a fucking life raft, right?

[184] I mean.

[185] Oh.

[186] Okay, so I wrote down fun things that I want to talk to you about.

[187] The first thing I wrote, so before Joy got here, I ordered a couple of bison meatloaf sandwiches.

[188] You turn me on to, like, one of the greatest sandwiches a whole time.

[189] I'll give a shout out to Stamp Proper Foods on Hillhurst.

[190] Thank you, Stamp.

[191] Beautiful, beautiful.

[192] Maybe the moistest, I know that's a triggering word for a lot of people, but a damp, damp, damp meatloaf sandwich.

[193] Well, don't say damp.

[194] Yeah, damp is way worse.

[195] Juicy.

[196] Juicy.

[197] Juicy.

[198] Juicy.

[199] Juicy, that's such a good word.

[200] Stay juicy, my friends.

[201] Yeah, so I introduced you to it.

[202] Then you hit me up about, I don't know, two months later, and you said, hey, just by the way, I've eaten that place like 20 times now.

[203] Every single time I cross.

[204] I'm not moderate.

[205] See, I, like, I get something and then I OD on it and then I get normal, but I have to, I go like full crack steps.

[206] But you don't eat four of them.

[207] You eat one.

[208] You just eat frequently.

[209] Yes, I'm saying you do eat it frequently, but not, but not, you don't eat two of them, right?

[210] You just have one.

[211] In fact, you just had half of one.

[212] You're saving one for later tonight when you probably have a little wine and some puff up.

[213] So I found out through our mutual friend Ken Whittingham that you are real hot for duck over the last year.

[214] And that you're eating duck.

[215] It's all about that duck life.

[216] And you're eating duck like six to seven times?

[217] No, I'm not eating duck six or seven times.

[218] Although, the first time I had duck was last year.

[219] It was at the Beatrice Inn in New York.

[220] And I'd never had it before.

[221] I was vegetarian since 94.

[222] And before that, I'd never had duck.

[223] And so there was beef on the table and duck.

[224] And I was like, all right, cool, I could do the beef.

[225] And then my friend was like, I was like, I'm never had duck before.

[226] Should I try it?

[227] He's like, yeah.

[228] And he gave me his piece.

[229] And I put it in my mouth.

[230] It was a mouth orgasm.

[231] It was fatty, but it tastes like warm bacon, warm sauce more bacon.

[232] I don't know.

[233] I mean, maybe it didn't taste like, but it was just like one of the greatest things I've ever put in my mouth.

[234] It was so fucking good.

[235] And I'm still chasing that same duck high.

[236] Sure.

[237] Ken said when he went out to eat with you to get duck, which you had requested.

[238] Yes.

[239] You guys went on a double date, right?

[240] Yes.

[241] He noticed that you had a real, real affinity for the duck in a way he had not observed.

[242] Well, he's never seen me eat duck.

[243] Are you licking your fingers and stuff?

[244] Oh, yeah.

[245] He never seen you with that duck.

[246] It's so fucking good.

[247] We went to a French restaurant.

[248] I think that's kind of new in New York called Franchette or Frenchette.

[249] Oh, I had the duck there too.

[250] It's supposed to be so good.

[251] It's really good.

[252] Okay, we didn't get the duck.

[253] We didn't get it.

[254] But I wanted it.

[255] I guarantee there's not a spot that serves duck that Joy hasn't tried it.

[256] I'm glad you had it.

[257] No, but also like around.

[258] the corner from my place in New York.

[259] You know, actor Josh Lucas, right?

[260] He owns part of this restaurant La Mondeboem.

[261] I call it a font, fa, fa, fa, fa, fa.

[262] And Tuesday nights are one of my favorite nights of the week, is Steak Fritz Night.

[263] And they fry this fries in duck fat.

[264] Oh, yeah.

[265] So I go there, I get all dressed up.

[266] It's my date night that I take myself out from date because I'm using by myself.

[267] And I put on some fly boots or something.

[268] I walk around the corner.

[269] And I don't have to cross your yet.

[270] Go right and right.

[271] and then I order the steak first with the duck fries, extra duck fat, depending on the chef.

[272] One chef hates giving me extra duck fat, and the other one really likes giving me that extra duck fat.

[273] Sure, sure.

[274] Have you had a cholesterol panel done since you started doing on this?

[275] No, but I'm going back to the doctor, for sure.

[276] Yeah, I know.

[277] Now, Monica just had an experience where she got to basically test what you're talking about.

[278] Well, we had this out -of -body experience in Brooklyn at a place called Emily's.

[279] Have you been, Emily's?

[280] The burger.

[281] Yes.

[282] I haven't had that yet.

[283] And we've been thinking about it, talking about it, at least every other day for a year.

[284] She went back, she just got home.

[285] A couple days ago.

[286] And she had it twice.

[287] And it held up, maybe even better than what I remembered it to be.

[288] Yes.

[289] So you went from being a vegetarian.

[290] To eating exclusively exotic meat.

[291] So before I became a vegetarian, I did eat me, but I didn't really like it.

[292] I was really picky.

[293] I wasn't like a full -on carnivore.

[294] I ate it because, like, that's what it was given.

[295] to me, but I always preferred vegetables, right?

[296] Got it.

[297] Became a vegetarian because it was really easy to not eat meat.

[298] So under Dr. Zora, it's like, you really should start eating meat.

[299] But once I started, now, I've become more of a carnivore than I was before.

[300] Yeah.

[301] Like, you could have never given me duck.

[302] But my cholesterol, I need to be, like, watching my cholesterol for sure.

[303] Well, let's take a peek.

[304] No, it's not.

[305] It's not.

[306] It's not.

[307] It's not ideal.

[308] It's not ideal.

[309] It's not ideal.

[310] Even when I was vegan, it's not ideal.

[311] I had to go on a statin.

[312] Yeah.

[313] I was vegetarian.

[314] my was not great.

[315] Yeah.

[316] It's largely genetic, I believe.

[317] Really?

[318] Yeah, a lot of it.

[319] People are just kind of predestined for high cholesterol and not.

[320] But then there's all this conflicting evidence that maybe cholesterol's not an issue at all.

[321] Well, it depends on the LDL or the HDL.

[322] Yeah, but even now, it's a little misleading.

[323] Okay, so for people who don't know or don't remember from the previous interview, Joy and I created a thing, and it makes her nervous to talk about it, but the soul spectrum.

[324] Oh, we've talked about it since.

[325] Yeah.

[326] I got a pretty low score, and I was Pretty pissed about it.

[327] Wait, I know.

[328] She did not get a low score.

[329] She got a moderate score.

[330] But how did she get a low score?

[331] How did you quantify that?

[332] Thank you.

[333] Because she's whiter than me. She was a cheerleader in Georgia.

[334] She'll tell you.

[335] She was a cheerleader.

[336] She, what else?

[337] I still should have a high soul score.

[338] On a mat.

[339] Yeah.

[340] No, I'm going to, we need to like, what else?

[341] I'm so glad I roping you into this.

[342] On a scale.

[343] So what was a skier?

[344] What was your number?

[345] What did you give me like a five?

[346] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I gave you a six.

[347] Okay, six.

[348] But he gave himself, like, an eight.

[349] I can't.

[350] Yeah, what would you get, what would you give me, Joy, out of ten?

[351] I mean, be dead, be brutal, be honest.

[352] I can give you an eight, but she cannot be a five or a six.

[353] Well, first of all, she's not a five.

[354] She's a six, okay.

[355] Okay.

[356] I'm going to knock you down to seven, make her eight.

[357] Oh, my, oh, wow, okay.

[358] Listen, listen.

[359] You have the tie -breaking vote at all times.

[360] Listen.

[361] You have more authority in this department.

[362] I've never been happier.

[363] But just to refresh people's memory, the Soul Spectrum, it's not exactly what you would immediately think.

[364] First and foremost, Samuel Jackson is the high watermark.

[365] He's a 10.

[366] Wait, when did we decide that?

[367] We decided that.

[368] That Sam Jackson was sort of.

[369] I don't remember that conversation about Sam Jackson being 10.

[370] I mean, I guess he is sort of.

[371] Okay.

[372] Okay.

[373] So we also said, we said Bill Murray is a 10.

[374] We did?

[375] Oh, my God.

[376] Why did I even invent this with you?

[377] This is what happens when you don't smoke a lot of weed.

[378] that I remember.

[379] My memory is like, you're going to have to jog my memory here.

[380] So I was trying to really articulate it to Monica as we thought about it.

[381] And it was this deep, deep comfort in one's own skin.

[382] That to me is what embodies the soul spectrum.

[383] Someone who's got rhythm, who is so confident in their own skin, comfortable, relaxed, chill, and has rhythm.

[384] And the rhythm could mean any number of things, right?

[385] So I've got a couple of inductees.

[386] under the soul spectrum.

[387] I just want to get your opinion now.

[388] First, and this person might be an 11.

[389] Anderson Pack.

[390] My new obsession, Anderson Pack.

[391] Oh, he's amazing.

[392] Have you seen the comfort in his skin?

[393] Yes.

[394] If he's not an 11, I don't know who is.

[395] But this thing doesn't go to 11, but yes.

[396] I would say a 10.

[397] Okay.

[398] I'm going to nominate Danny McBride as a 10 as well.

[399] I love him so.

[400] I know.

[401] Me too.

[402] But a soul spectrum?

[403] Oh, this motherfucker.

[404] Him strutton in Righteous Jamson.

[405] The comfort, the rhythm, the flow.

[406] What do you think about this?

[407] What if there was no numerical ranking?

[408] But it's like this person is high on the soul spectrum.

[409] This person is low on a cell spectrum.

[410] Okay.

[411] Because like everyone can't be a 10.

[412] I like this.

[413] Well, I'm only bringing, I'm only nominating tens today.

[414] There's plenty.

[415] I could give me plenty of age.

[416] Who else?

[417] That's it.

[418] I brought two.

[419] It's not every day you see someone who's like, a 10 on the soul spectrum.

[420] We haven't talked about it in a decade, and I've got two people that I want to add as tens.

[421] So for me, it's Bill Murray, Samuel Jackson, Anderson, Pack, and Danny McBride.

[422] I think they would all test high on the soul spectrum.

[423] What a lady's that?

[424] Yeah, exactly.

[425] Well, I thought of that.

[426] Obviously, you're a 10 on the soul spectrum.

[427] What females can you think of?

[428] I mean, I'll just watch her perform with her daughter, Erica.

[429] Oh, I was just kidding.

[430] You just told the words out of my mouth.

[431] It's her birthday coming up.

[432] Remember we went to the show at House of Blues?

[433] That was scheduled for her birthday, but she didn't arrive to the day after her birthday.

[434] Amazing.

[435] Monica Joe was kind of trying to gently remind me, like, we don't need to rush.

[436] And I was like, we had to head over there.

[437] The show starts at 9, and it was like 11.

[438] She's like, we don't need to get over there.

[439] We went over there at 11.

[440] I was panicked.

[441] We were missing it.

[442] Then we waited another two hours.

[443] This bitch came on at 1 a .m. That damn thing.

[444] Oh, wow.

[445] Erica Badu, yes.

[446] That's a slam dunk.

[447] Aretha's probably an 11.

[448] She's the original comfort, ease, rhythm, the whole thing.

[449] Okay, let's talk about for life.

[450] Oh, my show.

[451] I'm like, yes, ding bad.

[452] For life.

[453] Let's talk about for life.

[454] 50 sentence producer?

[455] Yes, he is.

[456] And so you did get rich or die trying.

[457] I did.

[458] And you were his girlfriend?

[459] I was his baby mama.

[460] That was my first, like, Hollywood kid.

[461] Basically.

[462] That was the first time.

[463] Oh, that you played someone with a child.

[464] Yeah.

[465] Uh -huh.

[466] And that just started me on this glorious path.

[467] Do you have a child in your new show?

[468] Not only do I have a child.

[469] She's 17, and she's about to have a child.

[470] Oh.

[471] I'm taking shit to the next level.

[472] You're a grandma.

[473] I'm a grandma.

[474] Oh, my goodness.

[475] Or as NeNeely Leaks would say, a glam mama.

[476] Or, as I would say, hot nana.

[477] Wow, so you're going to be a grandmother.

[478] Yes.

[479] Oh, this is so exciting.

[480] Somehow I missed that part.

[481] In the pilot, our daughter, who's 17, is pregnant.

[482] And I knew when I read it, I'm like, okay, yeah, she's pregnant.

[483] Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[484] It was until after I'd done the pilot, and I was like, maybe a couple weeks later, I was like, wait a minute, my grandmother was only a couple years older than I am right now when I was born.

[485] Your grandma wasn't younger than that?

[486] No, my grandmother was like 46 when I was born.

[487] Your mom was, what, 16?

[488] 15.

[489] My grandmother had six kids total, so my mother was the second youngest.

[490] Oh, okay.

[491] No, third youngest or some shit like that.

[492] Okay.

[493] So, yes, clearly the math holds.

[494] You could be a grandma in real life.

[495] But isn't it, like, I would have already spun out about having a 17 -year -old kid.

[496] Like, just reading that going like, hmm, yeah.

[497] It's just a part of my, I mean, what have I played more mom roles than I've not?

[498] And I don't even want a fucking kid.

[499] I got mad to be kids.

[500] Yeah.

[501] So Goodrich did I try was the first time I wore a baby bump.

[502] Uh -huh.

[503] And then my first birthing scene.

[504] the first of many.

[505] Yeah, and you did one on Parenthood, a birthing scene.

[506] Oh, yeah, yes.

[507] I did a birthing scene for a life, sort of like a flashback to when I gave Burt.

[508] Oh, really?

[509] When you did get rich or die trying, that was the apex of 50s.

[510] Yeah, I mean, he was...

[511] It was the bulletproof vest era.

[512] Mm -hmm.

[513] What was that experience like?

[514] What kind of guy is he?

[515] I've never met him.

[516] He wore a bulletproof vest.

[517] He's jacked.

[518] He's an amazing emcee.

[519] You know, he's been shot seven times.

[520] what was he like as a co -star?

[521] He was wonderful as a co -star.

[522] Yeah.

[523] But my experience with him was amazing.

[524] Is the first time he's acting?

[525] I mean, you know, too, sometimes, like, when it's your first time at the gate, you just go on instinct because you don't really know, you know?

[526] Well, a lot of things can happen.

[527] You can be terrified, and that can make you act like a fucking asshole.

[528] I've been terrified and acted not nice.

[529] Yeah.

[530] And I've been terrified and been humble enough to ask for guidance.

[531] Fair enough.

[532] You know, there's all kinds of versions of being scared.

[533] Well, also, like, I mean, I would think.

[534] And it's not he ever said anything.

[535] But, like, I think it was really hard to not just act for the first time, but to basically play a version of yourself.

[536] Yes.

[537] That's harder than even being a first -time actor, I think.

[538] I think because he's a rapper and already an entertainer in a way, there's something that he was able to lock into and relate to and then give that performance, which, I mean, again, like to play yourself, a version of yourself is fucking really hard for anybody.

[539] So then to work with him as a producer.

[540] Yeah.

[541] I mean, he's on the show, too.

[542] Oh, he is.

[543] Oh, yeah, he's got a dope part, like a dope recurring part on the show.

[544] I didn't have any scenes with him because the show is like basically like three dramas.

[545] It's a family drama, prison drama, and a courtroom drama, all wrapped up with one drama.

[546] And so so many characters do never intersect.

[547] Am I right in that it is the story of a guy who got sent to prison and then became a lawyer in prison and then fought and got his way out?

[548] Yeah.

[549] So our show is inspired by Isaac Wright, Jr., who was convicted under, like, the drug kingpin law, whatever, in Jersey.

[550] I think it was Jersey, yeah, Jersey.

[551] And so he was wrongfully accused and convicted to life plus 70.

[552] So for drug charges.

[553] Right.

[554] And he's innocent.

[555] Yeah.

[556] Plenty of people, you know, like, sadly, it's not uncommon for people to be wrongfully convicted, even sentenced to death.

[557] We know that, right?

[558] Yeah.

[559] So while he was in prison, he studied the law.

[560] and started to help other prisoners in their appeals.

[561] And, I mean, he helped a bunch of prisoners.

[562] I forgot the number, but get acquittals.

[563] No shit.

[564] So he's incarcerated, but it becomes these people's lawyers.

[565] So then I assume he's joining them at their appeal trial or whatever.

[566] I'm not sure how that worked.

[567] Okay.

[568] But he's studying the law enough to give them the information that they need to then, you know.

[569] So all along building his case.

[570] and he was able to represent himself in court, appealed his case, and knocked down each sentence.

[571] Like, it wasn't like at one swoop.

[572] First he had to go in and knock down a life sentence.

[573] Wow.

[574] Then go back and knock down the 70.

[575] Oh, my God.

[576] And then got out and became a practicing attorney.

[577] Because on our show, you meet Aaron, who's inspired by Isaac.

[578] You meet him nine years in.

[579] And he's trying his first case.

[580] So, yeah, so it's inspired by him.

[581] I mean, it's pretty incredible.

[582] It actually really happened.

[583] It's like, what do you say?

[584] The truth is stranger than fiction?

[585] Yeah.

[586] I just interviewed a dude that I had gone to college with, who's now a professor of archaeology at UCLA.

[587] That's so cool.

[588] My friend Jason Delion, he reminded me of the story where we ran from the cops on my motorcycle, and then he thought he knew where we were at.

[589] He was telling me where to turn.

[590] He thought we were in Long Beach, but we were in Marina del Rey.

[591] And then we crashed into a bush, and then we hid behind a bush.

[592] And then the cops came and they shined the light on the bush.

[593] And they're like, we can see you guys behind the bush come out.

[594] And so then the cops were like, what the fuck are you guys doing?

[595] It's like three in the morning.

[596] And it was the night the Lakers had won the championship in 2000.

[597] And we're like, you know, we're celebrating the Lakers and we got a little carried away.

[598] But I'm like, I drive for a living.

[599] My life will be over.

[600] Told the story.

[601] I saw on Instagram because it aired.

[602] Someone was like, I can't believe you got out of that.

[603] And I was like, yeah, because I'm white.

[604] Like I got out because I'm white.

[605] And also the amount of drugs I did.

[606] and bought and carried and everything, I'm a thousand percent would be in prison if I were black.

[607] Yeah.

[608] I'm like, I would have been stopped so many times and asked what I was doing.

[609] But even if you ain't have nothing.

[610] No, no, totally.

[611] But then if you're like, but I was always doing something.

[612] Exactly.

[613] And then.

[614] And you was always in some shit.

[615] Then the cop wouldn't have thought it was cute that I was celebrating the Lakers.

[616] Like there would have been no goodwill towards me. And I would have gone to jail.

[617] And that would have been one of a million, times and you evading oh yeah yeah yeah resisting or whatever the fuck all of that shit yeah you're like celebrating the lakers okay in my mind i'm like oh yeah this is just how the world works i have no reason to think that it doesn't work that way like oh sometimes they let you off sometimes you get fucked right and that's your experience and you experience the world differently till you're like oh shit yeah well i hear stories of other guys who have gone to prison you know serially like keep going and quite often the things that they were sent over and over again for, or especially parole violations.

[618] I'm like, yeah, I did all those things.

[619] Yeah, definitely.

[620] Because you and I had a fun text exchange either day.

[621] Yes.

[622] It's TI.

[623] So we interviewed TI, and then after we interviewed TI, he said stuff that I just flat out disagree with, okay?

[624] He said he goes with his 18 -year -old daughter, the gynecologist, to make sure she's a virgin.

[625] But he said, he didn't sit there on your show?

[626] Not on my show.

[627] No, because I would have been like, hold on, hold on.

[628] So I didn't like what he said.

[629] it's not great.

[630] I don't have that opinion.

[631] But on the ivory tower, condemnation of him, I started going, oh, some other layers happening here.

[632] And the thing that ended up irritating me a lot was if you're born into a household with two college -educated parents who are already liberal and raised you that way, and you left the house at an eight out of ten on the woke scale, and then you got yourself to ten, You know, okay, you went up 20 % from how you were raised.

[633] And TI, as he said on the show, supported his mom from the time he was like 10 years old.

[634] He watched his mother get abducted in an apartment and duct taped and held at gunpoint for four hours.

[635] He basically lived through and endured a tremendous amount of trauma that most people will never experience.

[636] And then the culture, he had to be uber masculine to survive, this heightened mass. masculinity.

[637] So the fact that he is out and raises a family and generates money and is a good dude, his level of growth is tenfold of what's someone who went from an eight to a ten.

[638] He far exceeded what he was brought up in.

[639] And there seems to be no appreciation for that.

[640] There's just, you need to be this.

[641] Well, I don't understand that connection to what he said about taking his daughter to get Tester Hyman.

[642] Well, the people that were furious at him were so righteous about how wrong he was and were so judgmental of his that error he made and on that topic and I just felt like it was a lot of people who were already grew up in a house that was eights and now they've reached 10 status well I think it's fair game for people to be like yo homie what the fuck are you talking about testing you know like I think that's legit yeah like I can be critical of that while understanding the struggles and strides that he made in his life that's yeah okay uh -huh But with him saying that about his daughter is very handmaiden's tail.

[643] It is.

[644] Okay?

[645] And he can be called out for that, but that doesn't negate his struggle.

[646] It doesn't negate the things that he's done.

[647] But I can be pissed at you for saying, I mean, I'm not pissed.

[648] I'm not pissed.

[649] I'm just saying.

[650] Like, one can be pissed at him for saying that, but also be like, yeah, he also does what he does and he's cool, whatever.

[651] Yeah, I just think there's, like, a willful ignoring of all contexts.

[652] Like, that's treating it as, like, all things are.

[653] I mean, I do think that where we are right now, people definitely will call your ass out for shit.

[654] And you're like, okay, really, you don't call people out for that, but you're not calling out.

[655] You know, like.

[656] Yeah, I don't know.

[657] I just felt like.

[658] Everyone has an opinion.

[659] I feel like it's a little hypocritical to have grown up with every single opportunity.

[660] And you're holding this.

[661] But that's assuming that everyone who was critical of him came from that.

[662] There are people who are critical of him who also grew up the way he did.

[663] Sure, sure, sure.

[664] Sure.

[665] So I just think that, like, it just gets annoying with everyone's like, but when you say shit and like, you know, listen, everyone has a fucking opinion because of, which is great because of social media, everyone has a voice and ever has opinion.

[666] The flip side is that everyone has a voice and every opinion.

[667] And you can be on the receiving end of that shit in a great way and quickly they turn on your ass the next day and then they forget about it a week later and then it's good again.

[668] I don't know.

[669] Yeah.

[670] But I just don't see the connection of like people.

[671] People calling him out for that, how that relates to how he grew up.

[672] Or like, that you should be like, okay, well, damn, he grew up real fucked up.

[673] So we should give him a pass for saying that even joking about his daughter, his body, is just problematic.

[674] Just regardless of whether it's a joke or not, that's the problem.

[675] That's problem.

[676] But I'm not going to call you about because I don't care.

[677] You're probably right.

[678] You're always right when we argue.

[679] No, no, it's just, that's my opinion.

[680] But I also think if you grew up in a way where you watched women get used a certain way, And yes, that then affects the rest of your view on life.

[681] And you think, I got to fucking protect this person.

[682] Now, I think the way he's, quote, protecting her is absolutely backwards and wrong.

[683] I don't agree with it.

[684] But I also recognize that he probably sees a much greater threat than someone else might see.

[685] I think it's okay to challenge people, even if we like them and like the things that they do, the art they create.

[686] We're all like trying to do better here.

[687] And we're all learning how to, you know, deprogram ourselves from racism.

[688] sexism and all these things.

[689] And sometimes there's an intersection of the two or three or four.

[690] And all of us are learning how to use the right language, not in an overly PC kind of way or whatever, but all of us are trying to figure out like how to use correct language and also how sometimes some thoughts and some ideas we have are fucking problematic.

[691] Even as a woman, I can have views that are internalized sexism.

[692] You know what I'm saying?

[693] We're all learning about how to evolve.

[694] So you don't get a pass because I had a fucked up life too.

[695] Yeah.

[696] You don't get a pass for that.

[697] But do better.

[698] Yeah.

[699] That's cool.

[700] Uh -huh.

[701] Yeah.

[702] You know?

[703] I think you might have 180'd me. I like that.

[704] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[705] If you dare.

[706] What's up, guys?

[707] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[708] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[709] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[710] Okay?

[711] Every episode, I bring on a friend.

[712] and have a real conversation.

[713] And I don't mean just friends.

[714] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[715] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[716] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[717] We've all been there.

[718] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

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[720] these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

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[725] Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[726] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon music.

[727] Internal sexism.

[728] I'll tell you when it happened to me the other day where I was like, I'm like more and more becoming aware of like, yeah, layers of misogyny that I have.

[729] They shock me because I don't think I'm a misogynist.

[730] But I think there's all kinds of just things I think are objective that are not objective.

[731] Like Chris and I were, we were watching some movie with some.

[732] older actors and I was abnormally conscious of how old the female actress looked I was just like it was really on my mind like in scenes I'm like yeah she's really aged right yeah and I said to Kristen I'm like I feel like an asshole but I'm like I'm super aware of how that this woman is aged and not that the men have like I see that they've aged but I'm not I see it in the women way more than I see it in the men yeah doesn't make you know misogynist it just you're just realizing how much sexism and the patriarchy has affected.

[733] The software I'm running is misogynistic.

[734] Right.

[735] Because we live in this society.

[736] Yeah.

[737] But I mean, I think it's the same way also too.

[738] It's like white people recognizing that like, okay, acknowledging certain privileges or certain injustices doesn't make you racist.

[739] We just want to be acknowledged that like, again, we're all been conditioned.

[740] All of us.

[741] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[742] Marginalized people, people, all of us.

[743] And we're all trying to figure out how to fucking break that program.

[744] And I think that's the problem with people like coming at people or, you know, it's like the pendulum was here for so long and now it just swung all to the other side where people were like being free to express themselves and call shit out because shit wasn't getting called out.

[745] The problem is that too much shit might be getting called out.

[746] Yeah.

[747] So we just haven't gotten back to the middle yet.

[748] But this is like a major consciousness ship.

[749] I mean like everything that we thought we were being challenged.

[750] Yeah.

[751] And sexuality, race, everything.

[752] And it's a lot.

[753] Oh, it's a lot.

[754] So it's going to be messy.

[755] But part of it is all of us acknowledging that, like, okay, you know what?

[756] I thought I knew shit and I don't.

[757] Or like you're saying that.

[758] Wow, I didn't realize things.

[759] And that's the thing that moves things forward for all of us.

[760] But all of us are conditioned.

[761] I actually did it the same way too.

[762] Like I was watching.

[763] I don't even know what it was where I was like, oh, well, she looks.

[764] I'm like, oh, that's so fucked up.

[765] Why am I calling out her neck right now?

[766] Uh -huh.

[767] Right?

[768] Yeah.

[769] Well, first of all, it triggers your own fear.

[770] Like, we all have fear of losing our power.

[771] right or potency like you know what the the signature tells are of like I'm aging so when you see it in other people you're like oh but it's always been different for women than men oh it's much more brutal it's no it's not even it's not brutal for men there's a physiological component right there's a natural evolution component which is guys can get girls pregnant at 90 years old so in that way they don't literally lose their potency and I think we've built this whole thing on top of that one fact that they are still have prowess.

[772] It's a patriarchy too.

[773] Yes.

[774] So like that's dismantle.

[775] It's always going to skew towards men.

[776] But for women in general and then also on screen, shelf life has always been, you had a ceiling at 40.

[777] Now, you know, there's more women who are not 20 something or whatever.

[778] But it's the same thing like, you know, you'd have like Harrison Ford's like, why is his love interest like 30 years younger?

[779] And then like, you know, and so judging sexiness and fuckability in men versus women as a age has always been completely lopsided.

[780] Yeah.

[781] It's changing -ish.

[782] Realizing how, like, you don't realize you're looking through a layer of culture.

[783] Like, none of us real, we're not aware at all times that we're looking through a layer of culture.

[784] And so the example I would give is as we watch these 80s movies, like, we'll show our kids movies we loved when we are younger.

[785] They certainly haven't fixed the age gap on TV between men and women.

[786] but it has gotten dramatically different to the point that we'll be watching these 80s movies and Kristen's like the 50 year old man's wife is 23 it's in every movie now when we were growing up you weren't aware of that I was not aware of that in any way whatsoever I mean I was kind of you know it's Woody Allen but I just watched Manhattan the other day and what's the I can't I can't remember how that one goes the it's like he's 42 and she's 17 oh my goodness yes It's really on brand friends.

[787] I mean, totally.

[788] But like, did anyone blink an eye back then?

[789] No, well, America and Beauty, which I love.

[790] It's a fantastic movie.

[791] It won the best picture.

[792] But that's the premise.

[793] It is the premise.

[794] At least it's baked in.

[795] It's not like this is normal.

[796] It's showing that this is warped a bit.

[797] Yes, but it is plain on this stereotype that his wife is older and she's shrill.

[798] And this one is young and vibrant.

[799] And again, it validates.

[800] His manhood and his virility, because a male ego is so fucking fragile.

[801] And Annette Betting, who's perfect in it, she's so brilliant in that movie, but she's so controlling and she can't let go of the fucking couch.

[802] And there's just a lot of generic archetypes about an older woman.

[803] And then there's a younger woman.

[804] Interesting to watch that again.

[805] Right.

[806] I guarantee.

[807] Through this lens of course.

[808] Yes.

[809] Now, the one though that I even knew at the time, I was like, hmm, this feels dicey, was so much.

[810] I try to explain the younger I try to explain the younger people that I work with that there was a movie when you and I were adults we would this would that movie wasn't we weren't seven right now dude Thomas C. Howell wants to get into a college and he can only get in through affirmative action so he discovers these pills these tanning pills that will make him black so he is actually in blackface the whole movie and we were adults and although I No, we were like, were we adults?

[811] I think we were like 16, 17, no. That's not adult.

[812] Okay, well, you didn't meet me when I was 16 or 17.

[813] You was grown.

[814] I was holding shit down.

[815] I was grown.

[816] You were grown.

[817] I was a grown ass.

[818] I could tell I was like, this feels dicey, but not to the level where I was like, this is insane.

[819] Whereas now, of course, I would be like, that's insane.

[820] It's insane.

[821] Well, it's a lot of stuff that you can't, yeah, like, look, we are constantly evolving in consciousness and understanding and awareness.

[822] And that's what's happening.

[823] This is great.

[824] Okay, so our next viewing party is Soul Man and American Beauty.

[825] What a tasty night.

[826] I don't know which one's first.

[827] And maybe Manhattan, too.

[828] Which I really like that movie.

[829] Even though it's problematic.

[830] You know what I'm saying?

[831] Like, the shots are beautiful.

[832] Like, the frames.

[833] I mean.

[834] But it's like the TI think.

[835] There can be things about it that are good that you can take away.

[836] We're also learning about, you know, things are non -binary.

[837] Like, listen, there's complexities to everyone.

[838] There's so many shades of gray.

[839] You can hold opposing thoughts and fuse in your mind.

[840] Yeah.

[841] I think the thing that where I've come out on the other side, mostly through Monica's help, is I can concede that.

[842] Who's an eight on the sole scale?

[843] Sorry.

[844] You haven't seen her dance.

[845] That's part of it.

[846] It does.

[847] Have you even seen Bill Murray dance?

[848] Exactly.

[849] We all haven't seen it, so no. So basically, I'm like, it's cool to say it about your own group.

[850] I'm free to talk about the white trash that I. I grew up around, and there's tons of funny stuff about that, and I can make fun of that.

[851] Yeah.

[852] And I'm kind of, I'm getting at peace with that, then I'm happy with that because, and part of it is, is because now there are so many voices that have been empowered, like, Hussein Minaj has a voice.

[853] Yeah.

[854] There's a lot of people that have voices now that didn't, and there was all this funny stuff that, like, anyone could have observed that these are funny things.

[855] Right, right, right.

[856] But now there's the right people to observe those funny things.

[857] Right, right, right.

[858] But now Chappelle's going, he's observing some shit that's not his own stuff.

[859] Right.

[860] But I also love that because, I mean, he's got a joke in the special where he's like, he's talking about the opioid crisis.

[861] And he's like, white people are going down.

[862] He's like, I kind of know how they fell about the crack epidemic now.

[863] I don't really care too much.

[864] And I was like, oh my God, what a fucking thing to say.

[865] Like, yeah, all the white people are dying of opioid.

[866] No, I don't care too much.

[867] And I was like, this is brilliant.

[868] And he's calling out the other thing.

[869] Well, I mean, I think as a person of color, you can comment on white people because like we've had to know.

[870] so much about white people and they never have to know about us so if anyone's a fucking expert by talking about shit like that we can talk about it we actually can that joke is not about white people it's about white people's reaction right right no I think it's a joke about in -group out -group personally uh yeah nah you guys disagree it's good no I think it's a joke about like oh yeah you're worried about your people people are worried about their group their population and people are not worried about other populations and groups that's just human nature okay i see that and it was also what she said it actually's both i think it's both yeah remember non -binary thinking here right many many options yeah yeah both true actually mm -hmm what else oh well i mean our debate about car notes house note it's still ongoing because i sent you that screenshot yeah of one of the comments on Instagram.

[871] Yeah, it was one white guy said we called it a car note too.

[872] I don't know if he was white or black, but it was somebody who works in financial shit who said, but that's not really the debate.

[873] The debate is black folks say car no and white folks say car payment.

[874] That's just a fact.

[875] Certainly there are some white people who say car note and there are certainly black people who say car payment.

[876] But I'm looking, I'm talking about, I'm talking about majorities here.

[877] I'm saying that 70 % of white people say car payment.

[878] But you're going to do an informal survey and you're going to see all the white people who say it's a car, they say car no house no or what's the other thing?

[879] They don't say payment.

[880] Payment.

[881] Car payment.

[882] I'm laying on my car payment.

[883] You can't even remember the name of it.

[884] First of all, House no carno sounds better than fucking payment anyway.

[885] So you know what y 'all can have, white people, y 'all can have the payment.

[886] Black people are going to say car no because that's more creative and funky and soulful.

[887] On the soul meter, house note and car note is a fucking 10, and your fucking lame -ass payment shit is a two.

[888] I completely agree with you that the word note is higher on the soul spectrum.

[889] It's so much higher on the soul.

[890] You know what?

[891] There's no right and wrong, though.

[892] This observation isn't like you guys are saying it wrong.

[893] I don't know the goddamn origin of payment or no. I just certainly know that my black friends were laid on their car note and they weren't laid on their car payment.

[894] My wife friends were laid on their car payment.

[895] It's so much higher on the solar spectrum Let me ask you a real question You get the sides for the day You get the script You get the scene And it's you going to the bank I can't make this house payment Do you say to the writers She wouldn't say house payment She'd say house note Hypothetically speaking of that I would be like Can I just say house no Oh I would just say it Right We try to keep real as possible I mean you know One thing Yeah tell me And this is amongst All the black people on the show mainly the black women black woman characters yeah when we're going to sleep we're not wearing our headscarves black women do wear their head scarves to protect our hair keep it nice and soft and and also like you know a silk scarf or a satin scarf you know it's just good keeps the you know yeah yeah our first sex scene i was like let's have a boundaries conversation tell me your boundaries and you're like i don't give a shit just don't touch my hair and then i was like oh good to know that's not running your fingers through somebody hair like that without fucking asking okay so then i learned don't fuck with a black woman's hair just don't ever yeah well and you know why people don't don't be walking up just putting your fingers in people's hair either because that's that's the other thing too you know what i'm saying oh your hair's so pretty why are you touching me yeah yeah stop that yeah but i was saying about keeping it real right real accurate we were like oh you know we're not wearing headscarves in these scenes because you're not really gonna do that on tv but in real life all of us are wearing our freaking headscarves I mean you can do it on TV but we didn't but we recognize that like if we're going to bed I wear my head scarf I mean unless I'm you know going to bed sure with a couple puffs on a doo being when we glass of wine and it's quite his time does Dave the Pope is he ever laying in bed and he's like feeling frisky and he looks over and he's like gives you a look your husband we should tell you yeah Yeah.

[896] And he's like, he kind of just looks at you a little longer than he normally would.

[897] And then you just grab that headscarf.

[898] Does he know like, ooh, not happening?

[899] Wait.

[900] Oh.

[901] Or conversely, as he get in bed and he like goes, shut off his light.

[902] But then he looks over and he's like, damn, she don't have her head scarf on.

[903] It's party time.

[904] Is that become a big signal for when it's party time?

[905] No, but.

[906] Because you fuck with your head scarf.

[907] fun, right?

[908] No, I don't actually.

[909] You never fuck with your headscarf on.

[910] No, but this is what I've done.

[911] If I'm in bed with the scarf and things go in a certain direction and its shit is going down, I'm taking that fucking scarf off because, like, I'm trying to give you a whole look, boo.

[912] And also, I don't want to be, if I catch a glimpse in the mirror, I don't want to see you fucking me with a headscarf.

[913] It doesn't work.

[914] It's not sexy for me either.

[915] It's not sexy for me either.

[916] I want to, you know, I'm trying to get turned on, turn you on, like.

[917] Sure, sure, sure.

[918] I'm not trying to fucking a headscar.

[919] Okay, so there is a real good indicator for him when it's time to look alive.

[920] I mean, I wish Kristen wore a headscarf because it would save us so much of me like, you know, like a couple gentle, like touches on the shoulder.

[921] I got to read because she's white.

[922] I got to figure out like this.

[923] Should I move my hand off the shoulder under the breasts?

[924] But if she had her headscarf on it, I'd be like, don't even come knocking at the door.

[925] You should maybe bring it up to her.

[926] Listen, a silk headscarf is great for everyone's hair and also a silk pillowcase for your face.

[927] She does use a silk pillowcase.

[928] Yeah, she does.

[929] But that is not a green light for coitus, just to let you know.

[930] That's true.

[931] I'm not even trying to get a head in a headscarf.

[932] I guess my wife, yeah.

[933] I'm not even trying to do that.

[934] What, get head or give head?

[935] Oh, I'm not going to give him head with a fucking headscarf.

[936] Oh, my God.

[937] Don't you have sexy headscarves, though?

[938] I wouldn't mind looking down I can't speak for anyone else I just know that I can speak for other black women we say that we sleep in head scarves to protect our hair that's about as far as I'm going for me I'm not trying to fuck or suck with a fucking head scar okay good it just doesn't this is wonderful you know there's a look there's a thing going on yes now the only indicator I have from Kristen is if that bite guards in oh that's a wrap I might as well go to another room no but There's always room for, you know, listen, you just, you have to be, you have to stay flexible.

[939] I don't think that bike arts ever come up.

[940] Y 'all got kids.

[941] Y 'all got to get shit done closets and like five minutes over here, but they're like, in secret and silence.

[942] So that's my last topic, actually, for you.

[943] So I brought this up last time and I had many times on set when I had a kid.

[944] I was so excited about it.

[945] And I was very encouraging of you to have a kid.

[946] And then you wrote this amazing.

[947] amazing essay on Stop asking me if I'm going to have a kid or something It was worded something Right Hey, Dax, stop telling me I should have kids I had to write this fucking article This op -ed to get me to stop And then so I read it and I was like Oh my God, I'm a part of that problem And you knew which one too You're like, there's so much fun There's so much fun That was you.

[948] Well, I also said you guys would have a beautiful kid Yeah, no, but I was I was specifically talking about you Uh -huh Because you were the only person who said There's so much fun Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've changed my tune on that I know.

[949] I totally know that.

[950] Because if you didn't, you're a fucking liar.

[951] Like I said in the thing, you fucking liar.

[952] Dax.

[953] It is interesting.

[954] It is interesting because, you know, ultimately it's still a big win.

[955] Like, it's still a huge win for me with kids.

[956] Oh, yeah, for you.

[957] For me, it's still a huge one.

[958] But, I mean, they really, really throw a wrench in it.

[959] They fuck up your money.

[960] Yeah.

[961] They fuck up your money.

[962] They fuck up your...

[963] Just lately, I've been like...

[964] Stress levels.

[965] I've had the strongest desire to just go sit somewhere for like six days with nobody asking me anything.

[966] Like that's my dream vacation right now is just to go sit in a hotel room by myself.

[967] That's like that seems ideal.

[968] So now I've come a little bit more towards your side over this almost seven years and you've not wavered at all.

[969] Oh, I am so rigid and firm.

[970] You're so, okay.

[971] In my decision.

[972] I reaffirm every single day.

[973] I think even more, though, it was much deeper than just like, oh, you should have kids.

[974] I also found it to be very cathartic for my own childhood.

[975] Yeah.

[976] Weirdly.

[977] So there was like a therapeutic aspect to it that I really wanted for you.

[978] Let's assuming that what, yeah, it's assuming a lot, but I can see that.

[979] Well, it's assuming a lot, but also I know a lot about you.

[980] Yeah.

[981] I'm at a place where I think that.

[982] that I would be a good enough parent.

[983] So I don't think, like, I'd be a terrible parent.

[984] Like, because that was something that I probably, like, in the past was like, oh, my God, I don't want to be like, you know, her or whatever.

[985] Yeah.

[986] But I know that I would be a good enough parent.

[987] Still make me want to fucking do it.

[988] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[989] I'm not urging you.

[990] Oh, no, I know.

[991] I'm over that.

[992] I learned my lesson.

[993] Oh, yeah.

[994] See, evolution, you evolved.

[995] Mm -hmm.

[996] But I do wonder, I'm still curious about it because we're different ages now.

[997] Like, as shocking as it is, you and I don't.

[998] we're like 32 on Parenthood, 33?

[999] Nah, uh.

[1000] So 2010, it first aired, and we had shot the pilot like nine months before that.

[1001] So 11 years ago, and you're 45, and I'm 45.

[1002] So we were 34.

[1003] Shit.

[1004] I know it's disturbing, right?

[1005] Wow, it's all a blur.

[1006] I prefer to be older.

[1007] You do.

[1008] Do you think about mortality?

[1009] Yeah.

[1010] I feel like I think about it more so now being at the age I'm at than ever in my 20s or 30s.

[1011] And how could we not?

[1012] I'm going to add to this, my dad died at 62 and your mom died at what?

[1013] 50 -something.

[1014] 50 -something.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] So you and I in particular would be wise to just consider, okay, well, worst -case scenario, we follow in our parents' footsteps.

[1017] Well, I mean, I'm in therapy about that, okay?

[1018] My grandmother died at 65.

[1019] My mother died at not even 55.

[1020] Right.

[1021] So I had this thing in that I was going to die at 45, actually.

[1022] Uh -huh.

[1023] And I'm going to be 46 this year, so I made it.

[1024] Yay.

[1025] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1026] Sort of.

[1027] I still got, like, how many more months until October?

[1028] I find it to be a little discomforting that, yeah, my dad died so young.

[1029] I'm definitely thinking about mortality, my own, and then dealing with others' mortality then reminds me of my own, which then kind of feels like, fuck, we're at that age now.

[1030] Because, like, you know, while our parents died relatively young.

[1031] Yes, yes, yes.

[1032] And my grandmother died when she was 65, I was 19, so I've dealt with that dynamic for a long time.

[1033] but you know friends loved ones parents are getting older even if they're okay they're still getting older right yeah yeah some have health issues people are thinking about how i'm going to care for my parent right and it's a trip to then see your you know now you're stepping into this role right oh yeah of possible caretaker or or having to like it just blows my fucking mind yeah and then It's like, oh, yeah, because I'm not, I mean, I don't know who knows how long you're going to live, but, like, you're like, oh, wow, like death.

[1034] Seems very real.

[1035] It's closer than the beginning was.

[1036] Not so -and -so who OD or whatever when we're in 20s or whatever, or maybe the grandparent or great -grandparent.

[1037] No, but, like, it's only going to accelerate from here.

[1038] It's never going to slow down.

[1039] No. More people are going to die, get older, including us.

[1040] Like, it's just so I don't think about it that much.

[1041] Okay.

[1042] I even know I think about it all the time.

[1043] Well, because here was, this is my question is the only band -aid I have for it is my kids.

[1044] Right.

[1045] Because there is something weird about the notion.

[1046] I think it was, someone said it in a movie, and I was like, oh, my God, that is my main desire.

[1047] It's like, the only wish I have now on planet Earth is that when I die, I'll be able to look at my kids while I'm dying.

[1048] Because I find great peace in that.

[1049] And I never had that.

[1050] and so I was just genuinely curious that we're the same age and I know we're thinking about it and we have parents that died young and I was wondering what - But we both had parents who died and we were there, you know, like...

[1051] Oh, we were there.

[1052] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1053] And so they looked at us.

[1054] Even though we had such complicated.

[1055] Yes.

[1056] Yeah, I have that little bit of cushion that helps me deal with that thought.

[1057] So for me, because I don't have children, how do I...

[1058] I guess you're more spiritual than I am.

[1059] I mean, I think everyone, listen, we got to all find our reasons to live.

[1060] I think that for me, if I can create things that matter, that I leave behind, and I have such great relationships in my life, you know, if I can accomplish the things that I want, most of the things I want to accomplish in my life and have a quality of life that I have and continue to have, and that's enough.

[1061] Yeah.

[1062] Joy, Brian, I love you so much.

[1063] I love you too, Jack.

[1064] I don't like that you live in New York.

[1065] I know you're having a blast.

[1066] Okay, you guys, I don't really live there.

[1067] I'm just there.

[1068] You've been there since August.

[1069] When's For Life On?

[1070] It's on ABC.

[1071] Great network.

[1072] It's Tuesday nights at 10 o 'clock on ABC.

[1073] But you can also watch it on the app and also on Hulu.

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] The timing is right for the show.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] It's the right show at the right time.

[1078] If it's five years ago or two years ago, not on air.

[1079] Yeah.

[1080] So all of those things, I think, are good indicators that we could have another season.

[1081] Yeah.

[1082] Yeah.

[1083] So another year in New York.

[1084] Because I told you, I can only imagine if I was making a show in Michigan and I was back where I came from where I was poor and I was a baller, I would love it.

[1085] I've spent enough time there.

[1086] But it is the first time that I've stayed there, whatever, longer than a month.

[1087] I know the mailman.

[1088] Like, I'm a regular at this rest.

[1089] They're like, the usual.

[1090] I'm like norm and shit.

[1091] Yeah, yeah.

[1092] Like, you know what I mean?

[1093] Like.

[1094] But let's just say, I have this beautiful station wagon downstairs.

[1095] You just saw it.

[1096] Beautiful gold wheels.

[1097] I drive around L .A., whatever.

[1098] But if I was driving that wagon through Milford, where I'm from, my town, I'd feel like, ooh, damn, I'm back.

[1099] First of all, right, but first of all, you driving that shit around Hollywood, I don't care what nobody say, you're fucking killing it.

[1100] Because those rooms are so fucking dope.

[1101] Well, you recognize, but, you know, in January.

[1102] But we recognize real, this.

[1103] Other people are like, what?

[1104] Who is that with those ribs?

[1105] Dad Shepard roll like that.

[1106] And people who don't like it, fuck them because they don't even know what's hot because they're bland on the solst meter.

[1107] Oh, yeah, they're twos.

[1108] Because if you're like a two, you'll never know what an eight or a ten is.

[1109] You don't know that because your ass is a two.

[1110] You can't see what you can't see?

[1111] So for those people who are seven and up, they're like, yeah, that's hot.

[1112] That's the stuff.

[1113] I mean.

[1114] But I'm a six now.

[1115] You demoted me. No, no, no. We're doing away with the numerical rankings.

[1116] Yeah, yeah.

[1117] Because I think it's just, because it's going to be hard, like, who's really an eight.

[1118] She's not an eight.

[1119] You're not a seven.

[1120] Come on, I'm out of ten.

[1121] Like, come on.

[1122] Yeah, it's too hard.

[1123] It's too hard to be in uniform with that.

[1124] It's going to start more fights than it's going to solve.

[1125] Joy, I love you.

[1126] I love you, too.

[1127] And I will see you in New York, I guess, because that's where you live.

[1128] And watch for life.

[1129] I didn't even say that, you guys.

[1130] I live here in California.

[1131] I just spend time.

[1132] ABC 10 p .m. On by Coastal.

[1133] For life.

[1134] Watch my show.

[1135] I love you.

[1136] Bye.

[1137] I love you, too.

[1138] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1139] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1140] Your friend is back.

[1141] My friend is back.

[1142] Yes, it's so nice to see her.

[1143] It had been a while since I lost an argument to her.

[1144] What are your thoughts on that?

[1145] Like, do you enjoy seeing someone who, almost every argument I've gotten in with her, I lose?

[1146] and I acknowledge I've lost.

[1147] You acknowledge.

[1148] Yeah.

[1149] Which that's the most interesting part to me. I thought that might be your reaction.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] I rarely see you concede in the way you do with her.

[1152] Uh -huh.

[1153] I mean, I think she's so smart and interesting, and I love that you guys debate, and I love that she's not going to let you get away with anything.

[1154] Uh -huh.

[1155] I think I also serve that purpose, but I don't know that I get the same reaction.

[1156] well she and I tend to argue about something so specific which is black white stuff yeah so if she's pointing on a blind spot I have about being white yeah she is an authority for sure and then the stuff you and I usually argue about neither of us are an authority like I had to concede that your parents didn't want to hug you and look into your eyes and say I love you well they do because ultimately as much as I think I know all humans want their kids to do that I don't know what the Indian experience is.

[1157] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1158] And then when I hear you and Hussein say the same thing, I go, I'm clearly wrong.

[1159] I don't know what happens there.

[1160] Right.

[1161] Like if she and I argue about what tastes better on the Burger King menu, I won't never relant.

[1162] Well, sure.

[1163] I also think I sometimes put her in a position where she lets me in on some stuff privately, but then I'm putting her on blast in public, which is not fair.

[1164] But I could see if I were her being cognizant of the fact of like the black community is going to be like what are you talking to this white devil about that for you can't you can't let him help define the soul spectrum yeah like she might personally feel fine with it between her and i maybe but that out in public it might be like what what the fuck are you letting cracker ass cracker yeah be a part of a soul she said i was higher than you on the soul spectrum so i'm going to take that to heart sure as is as one half creator and owner of the soul spectrum it does it carries a lot of weight okay so you talk about cholesterol and you said mainly genetic.

[1165] If you have a close relative, such as a parent -siblings or grandparent who has high levels of cholesterol, you are more likely to have it yourself.

[1166] This is largely due to the passing on of genes from parents to children that increase levels of cholesterol in the blood, such as a gene that codes for a defective receptor.

[1167] This is known as familial cholesterolemia.

[1168] Familial hypercholemia is a form of inherited high cholesterol.

[1169] People with this condition generally have a higher cholesterol levels than people without this condition.

[1170] despite lifestyle choices.

[1171] That's because people with this condition aren't able to regulate cholesterol levels as efficiently as other people.

[1172] People with familial hyper -collesterolemia can't control their cholesterol through diet and exercise alone and may instead need to also use medication.

[1173] Yeah, a statin.

[1174] Sure, which you're on.

[1175] Well, I don't know why.

[1176] Do you know I just stopped taking it like a year and a half ago?

[1177] I don't think that's advisable.

[1178] It's totally stupid.

[1179] I don't know why I did.

[1180] What was the emphasis?

[1181] Because I just was like I don't want to be on a medicine if I don't have to be, you know, people do that.

[1182] That's a lot of people, which I, look, I get that because it's chemicals.

[1183] You're adding chemicals to your body.

[1184] You don't know what they're doing.

[1185] They're affecting you somehow.

[1186] I have some faith that my body knows how to get into homeostasis, you know.

[1187] I don't have like a defective body, although I do in some ways.

[1188] Well, we, yeah.

[1189] But I guess the truth is, if you're someone who needs medication, you need medication.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] That's just, and you should take it.

[1192] I need to take it.

[1193] I'm going to start today.

[1194] You are?

[1195] I'm going to resume taking it.

[1196] Why don't you just check in with your doc before you get on and off and on and off?

[1197] Well, I mean, the doc wants me on it.

[1198] Okay.

[1199] He already told me his position.

[1200] Okay.

[1201] Although he has retired since I got the prescription.

[1202] He's been replaced and I saw the person once.

[1203] And how did you feel about him?

[1204] Fine.

[1205] I wouldn't be able to pick him out of a lineup.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] I'll get there with him.

[1208] No, you won't because you're not going to really have to go.

[1209] to the doctor.

[1210] Right.

[1211] I should go more.

[1212] I got to get a colonoscopy.

[1213] You can't do that anytime soon.

[1214] We can't be going into hospitals or medical facilities for a lab.

[1215] Unless I find out I have the antibody, which would be awesome.

[1216] It'd be helpful to know.

[1217] Do you want to do a sidebed about whether or not I have the antibody?

[1218] Um, because you don't think I do, right?

[1219] I don't know if you do.

[1220] Okay.

[1221] But if you had to guess one or another.

[1222] Can you only get it?

[1223] You would only have the antibody if you would have the path to a thousand percent.

[1224] Because your body makes a specific.

[1225] unique antibody to attack that specific virus.

[1226] You can only have immunity if you've had it.

[1227] That's right.

[1228] But what about incontagion?

[1229] Matt Damon, he had immunity.

[1230] Sure.

[1231] Well, some percentage of the population will have immunity to every single virus.

[1232] Right.

[1233] So that's what I mean.

[1234] You could be an anomaly, but he didn't have the antibody.

[1235] Just for whatever reason, the chemical makeup of his body did not allow that virus to grow inside of him.

[1236] Exactly.

[1237] Exactly.

[1238] Which is different from having an antibody.

[1239] it's killing it.

[1240] Right.

[1241] But I think the test that they're coming up with right now is an immunity test, but I don't know if it's an antibody check.

[1242] It is.

[1243] That's what it's checking.

[1244] Are you sure?

[1245] A thousand percent.

[1246] Just read it this morning in the New York Times.

[1247] Another fun thing I read in the New York Times.

[1248] There was an article about restoring your cells to their youthful state, which there was a little bit of a story on this 60 minutes that we've talked a little bit about reversing aging and mice, which they've done.

[1249] So what's really interesting, I didn't understand this about aging until reading it.

[1250] But what happens is your body is born with DNA, right?

[1251] And then RNA is made off of that.

[1252] But then also your epigenome, which sits on top of that, and is in charge of turning off certain cells that don't need some of that information.

[1253] There are errors along the way of reproduction when the cells divide and make more cells mitosis.

[1254] So the epigenome over time has all these flaws in it.

[1255] It's telling the body not to read certain genes that it should read.

[1256] Okay.

[1257] And what this thing does actually is it just gets rid of that epigenome so it can reset to basically when you were young and there's no errors in it and your body can read all the code on it.

[1258] Your DNA stays the same.

[1259] It's just how it's being read deteriorates over time.

[1260] Interesting.

[1261] But what's interesting is they can take it too far back.

[1262] If they take it too far back and you have no epigenome or no RNA already on there, it can cause your organs to grow explosively.

[1263] It wants your epigenome to have the memory that it's already grown the heart for the first time.

[1264] So it doesn't have to have this like newborn explosive organ growth.

[1265] So they don't want explosive organ growth, but they do want it to read all your DNA.

[1266] Wow.

[1267] And they've figured out ways, at least in mice, how to give the right amount of clearing, of the epigenome.

[1268] Isn't that fascinating?

[1269] That is fascinating.

[1270] More proof for the simulation.

[1271] So I was like, oh, according to this article, I'm like 10 years out from being fucking returned to 23.

[1272] Wow.

[1273] 10 years was the timeline?

[1274] No, I just was what I, yeah, I was.

[1275] Wow.

[1276] Yeah, projecting.

[1277] That's amazing.

[1278] Mm -hmm.

[1279] Exciting.

[1280] Isn't it also amazing that like we heard on 60 minutes, in three hours they had a vaccine?

[1281] The composition for the vaccine.

[1282] Yeah, they had the genome.

[1283] mapped.

[1284] But it just takes so a lot.

[1285] The process is so long.

[1286] But they even had, I want to say they had the vaccine in a tube in 42 days ready to put into a person.

[1287] Now they've got to do the trials.

[1288] That's what's going to take forever.

[1289] You just can't speed up that part.

[1290] You've got to test it on people and make sure something huge doesn't happen.

[1291] But they had a fucking vaccine in their hand within days.

[1292] I know.

[1293] That's awesome.

[1294] It is.

[1295] Humans are amazing.

[1296] We are.

[1297] But this whole genome thing in the epigenome, that kind of answers my weird question about why has an animal evolved to just not die?

[1298] Since it can replace each cell with a perfect copy, why do we have to die?

[1299] And it's because this epigenome has filled with flaws over time.

[1300] It accumulates more and more flaws.

[1301] So it makes me think that trees must not fuck up their epigenome as much.

[1302] What causes the epigenome to deteriorate, though, or to get flaws?

[1303] Well, as it's replicating itself, it's prone to having flaws in it.

[1304] And then it's rare, but over the course of your lifetime and mitosis happening billions and billions of times, those flaws start adding up.

[1305] So maybe the tree also has a much simpler genome and simpler epigenome, so that there's not that much room in there for all that error.

[1306] It just seems like if this was only this at play, there would have to be at least one person to have lived whose epigenome was not flawed and then...

[1307] It sounds like it's just a numbers game.

[1308] Like there's just a probability to error that's going to happen one in every million copies and just over time because there's so many billions of copies being made.

[1309] I guess.

[1310] I'm probably not perfectly representing the article.

[1311] I'm sure if they heard this, they'd be like, you got 65 % of it.

[1312] Whatever.

[1313] You guys can look it up.

[1314] Yeah, look it up.

[1315] Okay, so Isaac Wright, the man who Joy's show is based off.

[1316] Oh, right.

[1317] And I was curious how long he had been in prison.

[1318] Yeah, seven years.

[1319] He was in prison for seven years.

[1320] So after his 1991 conviction, Wright was sent to a maximum security New Jersey State Prison in Trenton, where he began working as a paralegal on other prisoners cases.

[1321] I got over 20 people out of prison.

[1322] some with life sentences and others based on getting their sentences reduced.

[1323] Wow.

[1324] Good for him.

[1325] I would just be selfishly trying to get myself out.

[1326] Well, I think he was building his own case as well, but like why not help others?

[1327] You'd help if you had the tools and you could see in other people's cases like ways.

[1328] I did.

[1329] I would.

[1330] I would.

[1331] I would.

[1332] I would.

[1333] I've gotten 20 people out of prison.

[1334] I'm the goodest.

[1335] Okay.

[1336] Uh -oh.

[1337] You said you guys were adults.

[1338] When Soul Man came out.

[1339] And then she said, no. And then you said, yeah, we were like 16, 17.

[1340] And then she was like, well, that's not an adult.

[1341] But it came out in 1986.

[1342] You were 11.

[1343] So you weren't even close to an adult.

[1344] Right.

[1345] Right, right, right, right.

[1346] Sixth grade, pretty adult life.

[1347] I had a mopad.

[1348] I was mobile.

[1349] Staying out after dark.

[1350] My goodness.

[1351] That's still pretty recent.

[1352] To have that movie in the marketplace.

[1353] 1886 before I was born Yeah one year Well you were in your mommy's belly Yeah I don't know what Definitely a summer release If it was a summer release And I wasn't in her belly yet You entered in December Yeah Got in there and right around Christmas time Yeah A choke one It was feeling well I don't want to We don't need to go down that Actually I bet it was normal I was feeling frisky Oh don't talk about them like that Why?

[1354] They're sexual creatures You don't like talking about your mom's sex sexual career.

[1355] I don't mind.

[1356] It's not my favorite topic, but my mother talks to me a ton about her sexuality.

[1357] Oh, yeah.

[1358] So it was 32 years old.

[1359] Oh, 33.

[1360] I'm 32.

[1361] For another few months.

[1362] Do you think we'll still be in quarantine by the time it's my birthday?

[1363] Maybe.

[1364] It's only three months away.

[1365] No, we're in three.

[1366] It's five months away.

[1367] So that would be not great if we were.

[1368] We're not going to be.

[1369] I'm going to have a party where everyone stands one foot away from each other.

[1370] That's how we'll celebrate.

[1371] Oh, my God.

[1372] And a scrum.

[1373] What's a scrum?

[1374] The scrum is in rugby when they all gather around the ball and they're all touching each other and they're in a scrum.

[1375] Yeah.

[1376] You should have a birthday scrum.

[1377] I will.

[1378] Oh, my God.

[1379] That's so fun right now.

[1380] Monica's 33 birthday scrum.

[1381] All right.

[1382] That's all.

[1383] There weren't very many facts.

[1384] Just a lot of debate and chatting and fun.

[1385] I really lost that TI debate pretty bad.

[1386] I'll blame half.

[1387] as I didn't roll out my case nearly as eloquently as I was hoping to.

[1388] The next day I thought of a way I should have phrased it.

[1389] Like I was really smarten from that defeat.

[1390] I didn't roll it out very well.

[1391] Because black masculinity was taken from them, their autonomy.

[1392] Because of that, there is a hyper -masculinity in the black community that I think you have to be understanding of.

[1393] You don't have to accept and you don't have to like say carry on, but you should at least acknowledge there's different stakes in the black community and there is some hypermasculane that's pretty toxic and my only point is people should only be so commensurately proud of themselves with how much they actually evolved out of where they came from and if you could quantify and say your average white person evolved like 20 % out of above what they were raised to be and then here's a guy who's probably evolved 40 % above.

[1394] He's actually covered more ground than a white person yet the white person is very much on a white pedestal saying like you're trash for yeah i mean i i think there can be both there can be understanding of why this person believes what they believe right additionally you can't give it a pass you you have to say but that's kind of how i felt i was acting like i totally disagree with everything he's saying and doing right but i'm not going what a fucking misogynist piece of shit as so many people were doing I guess.

[1395] I mean, I think in general, maybe that wasn't the reaction.

[1396] No, maybe it was.

[1397] I don't know.

[1398] I didn't follow that that closely.

[1399] But if you're going to have like an opinion like that on someone that you don't know, just don't have an opinion like that on somebody you don't know.

[1400] Like you can have an opinion on what's morally and ethically right and wrong without saying this person's a piece of shit or fuck this person.

[1401] Yeah.

[1402] Anyhow, so, and I wouldn't say you lost.

[1403] I think you sort of quantitative.

[1404] identify these conversations a lot as winning and losing.

[1405] And I don't know that that's appropriate.

[1406] Or productive.

[1407] It's just talking things out.

[1408] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1409] There's no winners or losers.

[1410] No. But if I can get someone to acknowledge that the way I'm framing it is more logical, I feel like that's a victory.

[1411] And then conversely, when they do that to me, I feel like, well, it's a victory.

[1412] I'm going to adopt actually the way they're thinking about it.

[1413] Sure.

[1414] But you're right.

[1415] It's a stupid way to try to evaluate.

[1416] I don't know.

[1417] I don't know either.

[1418] I love you.

[1419] Love you.

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