226 - 50 Hour Days

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder, the podcast.

[2] Your Thursday podcast.

[3] That's right.

[4] That's Karen Kilgara.

[5] That's Georgia Hartstark.

[6] Hi.

[7] And she is, say it.

[8] One year older.

[9] Can I say it?

[10] Say it.

[11] 40 years old.

[12] That's fucking right.

[13] That's right, Dr. Don.

[14] How does it feel?

[15] It feels fine.

[16] I feel like your 20s are for figuring out who you want to be.

[17] Your 30s are for trying to achieve.

[18] achieve that and your 40s are for fucking enjoying it, you know?

[19] Are for pills.

[20] Oh, that's, that's my whole life.

[21] Or for, it's for uping your intake of pills.

[22] Right, right.

[23] My sister told me that I always, all I'm ever doing is accusing people of being on pills.

[24] Because I said something, I'm like, that person was clearly on pills.

[25] We're watching a lot of, you know, viral videos and stuff.

[26] I'm like, they're on pills.

[27] She's like, you say that about everybody.

[28] you're probably right half the time at least right i think i think i am though yeah a lot of people use a lot and i don't mean like meds that they need and standard stuff i mean like pills they probably shouldn't be on oh okay okay you know pills that make them think they should go up to other people in 7 -11 and tell them things that aren't true that kind of stuff oh there's then there's a fucking shit ton of people on pills you're right you're right they're on karen pills is what they're on also just so you know not to get off your birthday but just very quickly get off it i don't care that they call people karen people seem to feel the need to defend me it has nothing to do with me i mean it does sometimes i can Karen out for sure but yeah it's not um is it weird to like see to be scrolling on twitter and just like see people yelling at you yeah i just don't take it that way when i see like georgia is a red state and when i see like news from georgia that's always fucking negative.

[29] I'm like, sorry, it's not me. You have a serious voter suppression issue, Georgia.

[30] And I'm sick of it.

[31] I want everyone to vote twice.

[32] I'm so pro -voting.

[33] Wait, what?

[34] That's even another problem.

[35] I am problematic.

[36] I actually just started following this account on Twitter, Black Votes Matter, who were completely on that whole thing that happened.

[37] I believe it was in Atlanta, right?

[38] And they went out, a Aside from, of course, obviously, reporting it to everybody that needed to know about it and getting the word out, they also went and started giving those.

[39] There were people who waited in line for 12 hours to vote.

[40] 12 hours.

[41] They didn't get out of there to like 11 o 'clock at night.

[42] And Black Votes Matter went and we're handing out like pizza and water to people and stuff, like helping them stay in line to vote.

[43] Yeah.

[44] It's beautiful.

[45] Yeah.

[46] But it has to stop.

[47] It has to change.

[48] Yeah.

[49] And Georgia needs to do.

[50] And Georgia?

[51] Better.

[52] Get your shit together.

[53] Better Georgia.

[54] Do better Georgia, please.

[55] I'll do it my best, Karen.

[56] What did you, did you, um, hang on Zoom with the fam on your birthday?

[57] What did you do?

[58] Do you want, it doesn't matter.

[59] It was my 40th birthday in quarantine.

[60] Vince did a bunch of nice things.

[61] Um, I actually cried multiple times for real.

[62] It was like a very nice thoughtful birthday.

[63] Oh, cried in like a touched way.

[64] Or a, I guess, dump your feet way.

[65] One was like a, oh shit.

[66] having a 40 -year -old tantrum girl away, and the others were all touched ways.

[67] Oh, wait, did you get something like really nice?

[68] Is there anything you want to share with us that he got for you?

[69] Or was it like a...

[70] He did.

[71] Because he knew I didn't want like one of those drive -by and wave of Georgia birthday things.

[72] So is that a choice?

[73] Yeah, he's like, you don't want that.

[74] Right?

[75] The like wavy drive -by thing.

[76] And I'm like, absolutely not.

[77] So instead he reached out to just a couple long time close girlfriends and asked them to send to give him a name a title of a book that meant a lot to them and he'd get it he'd buy the book uh local bookstores everyone and then he so he gave it to me and read what the book meant to them and like why they thought i would like it and so it was just this like really sweet like you know i know you love this so uh this i got you this book that's beautiful it was really lovely and so i definitely cried there And just like a lot of, I have, I have lovely people in my life.

[78] I'm very lucky, including you.

[79] Thanks so much.

[80] Did you also cry because you can't read?

[81] And so you can't read anything.

[82] I tried to eat the book.

[83] I thought he was getting me cake.

[84] I have to ruin the moment, Georgia.

[85] What do you want?

[86] Pills.

[87] I have to bring the Karen element to the Georgia story.

[88] And thank you to everyone, of course, for the birthday wishes.

[89] No, it's nice.

[90] In the midst of a fucking, you know, train wreck happening in the world, people took the time to say happy birthday to me. And that was very nice of you.

[91] Thank you.

[92] Listen, it's, you know, what you had this year, your 40th in June of 2020 is like the most historical year kind of to date.

[93] This is big shit going down.

[94] This is the biggest thing that's ever happened in our lives, lifetime.

[95] Yeah.

[96] On the face, it feels negative.

[97] but there's this undercurrent, it's very stressful and difficult for a lot of people and really, you know, it's, and also there's a, there's a lot of people really scared and, you know, but then there's also, there's just this kind of epic change feel to it.

[98] Right.

[99] Like, it's nothing, I've never seen political action like this in my life.

[100] It's incredible.

[101] And I'm 50.

[102] No brag.

[103] I've seen some shit.

[104] I was there when MTV was invented.

[105] and this is bigger than that.

[106] Let's see.

[107] What do we have?

[108] Well, I would please like to talk about a woman named Janiqua Charles who wrote the song, You're going to lose your job that is now the number one hit of the summer.

[109] Look it up right now, if you haven't seen it yet, but you probably know what we're talking.

[110] You know what we're talking about.

[111] It's kind of like a protesters anthem now and amazing.

[112] Yesterday I read, there was a BuzzFeed article.

[113] They tracked her down.

[114] And it is the most beautiful story.

[115] of her family seeing this video go viral first of all the security guard that made the video the guy that's in it that's holding her hand her her arm in the video is the guy who originally posted it whoa and he and he posted it and said first of all I want to say I am not making fun of this person I honestly think this song is he smirks in it oh yeah he thinks it's great yeah and he's like, you know, so I love that that he's kind of in on, he's in on it a little bit.

[116] Yeah.

[117] And it was due respect of like, it's a jam.

[118] It's the hit of the summer.

[119] It's such a good song.

[120] And then they've set up a go fund me for her.

[121] Also, she has a Venmo that's at get this dance.

[122] Yeah.

[123] It's, it's just a beautiful story.

[124] And now she's reunited with her family.

[125] Oh, that's so beautiful.

[126] Read the BuzzFeed article.

[127] Okay.

[128] Read the BuzzFeed article.

[129] They did a great job.

[130] Give her name again.

[131] Geniqua Charles.

[132] Okay, perfect.

[133] I think that someone should do ringtones and she should get all the money for the ringtone.

[134] Oh, yeah.

[135] Right?

[136] Or she should just go straight to like YouTube with it.

[137] Yeah.

[138] Whatever's the best for her.

[139] Yeah.

[140] And then go on My Lottery Dream Home because I love that show.

[141] So good.

[142] Please show us your house.

[143] Oh my God.

[144] We found there's a channel.

[145] My sister watches a channel that's literally called like the wealth channel or something.

[146] I've ever seen that?

[147] No. I swear to God and it basically is like it's these it's basically rich people programming and so they show like houses that are for sale on them like the most exclusive Hawaiian islands that are like on the waterfront type that kind of stuff and is it all narrated and like slow mo like tours through houses that are like really oh my god but the satisfying thing is because of course everyone loves a nice aspirational TV show where you can just be like oh what if we lived in that house but it's so fun when you do get the tour of the house and it's super janky the furniture inside is trash central it makes you feel like it it's such a great like you're like I've so much better taste than that billionaire it's such a nice feeling yeah I'm sorry oh I don't have 800 fucking barn doors all over my house right or like a statue like there's a kind of a rando venus statue where it's just like no why is that in the hallway so I do have a corrections corner because last week when I was talking about the stonewall uprising and I kind of theorized and hopefully clearly enough that I was like well the mafia are the ones that owned it so they were trying to take advantage of blah blah blah I kind of theorized about why I thought the mafia was involved and got a couple um emails including denton who runs our website and is our he's our merch master and our website guy the the reason that that was owned by the genovese or genovese I don't know how you pronounce it.

[148] I think it's a crime family.

[149] Genevese.

[150] What was your guest?

[151] Genevise.

[152] Geneviz sounds right.

[153] Well, there's a woman named Anna Genevise who was married to a mob boss who was a lesbian.

[154] Oh, my God.

[155] And she bought those, I think because I can't, sorry, I scanned this email, but it was basically like she bought it so she could have a place to safely hang out.

[156] Oh, my gosh.

[157] And to spite her husband who she divorced is like a whole story.

[158] And so look into it.

[159] It's really cool.

[160] the things that I was afraid of, like, people being taken advantage of or whatever, it's like a different, it's a different reason.

[161] It's a totally different hang.

[162] So, um, look up Anna, Anna Genovese and learn the story of why all the gay bars were owned by the mafia.

[163] It's actually borderline heartwarming.

[164] It's really nice.

[165] Uh, it's probably best not to speculate about the mafia.

[166] I don't know why.

[167] I just seem to need to like poke the bear.

[168] Yeah, that's my, that was my one correction.

[169] Okay.

[170] Speaking of.

[171] whatever.

[172] Speaking of talking.

[173] So we're really excited because we have this My Favorite Murder logo, black and white pin.

[174] It's like a cool enamel pin that was in the shop and our merch store at my favorite murder .com.

[175] And all the proceeds of that was going to rain.

[176] And it completely sold out, which was so awesome.

[177] I think we gave about $10 ,000 to rain.

[178] Yeah.

[179] So it's back in stock.

[180] And so we get to pick a new charitable organization to, give 100 % of the proceeds to and so you want to announce them the black emotional and mental health collective which is basically this um it's a group of mental health professionals of all types so it's therapists but it's also like yoga teachers and um it's all kinds of people that are there to help black people and in any kind of like therapeutic whatever kind of support they might need especially at a time like this and I think that's that's the thing that I keep seeing on social media that's really it's really something and think about is the intense impact like in it's easy for me to talk about oh this is such a great time of political upheaval right it's also a very very trying um trigger a difficult time yeah it's weighing on people and people definitely feel like they're in peril and um they're at risk and they're exhausted and they're sick of this bullshit and that's when you need therapy the most so it's amazing that they have um this collective and we're really excited because that's, you know, obviously therapy is our thing.

[181] And so to have a dedicated place that has, that is basically a bunch of professionals together that are aiming toward really helping out black people get the help they need and the support they need in a time like this.

[182] Yeah.

[183] Do you have the website?

[184] The website is WWW.

[185] Do you have to say that anymore?

[186] No, you don't to say that anymore.

[187] I wanted to tell you, but I like don't want to be like, you don't have to do that anymore.

[188] well a lot of times i'm doing it to sound old and dumb i figured yeah um but then sometimes i'm worried because i used to also say h t tp colon but this is um the website is beam dot community so go on to that website and check out the services they that they have because they're it's very it's a really wide span yeah yeah oh and you know speaking of i wanted just to really quickly acknowledge something that's that has been you know really important to us for a long time which is making the exactly right podcasting network you know represent all people especially people of color that's been really important to us we have shows in the pipeline that we're really excited to have on the network but it's been a much slower process so it's in the works and we totally fucking agree and we since the beginning of the podcast network we have wanted to make sure that we have diverse voices.

[189] Please rest assured that we have great shows coming up that will be reflecting our awareness of that importance and like the importance of just having like a bunch of different people represented that you will see it.

[190] Yes, more to come in 2020, uh, 2021 at the latest depending.

[191] But they like this next slew, the next slate of shows, you will see the things we've been working on for.

[192] a year or a year and a half and you'll see that's right is that you have anything else do i have anything else are you watching anything did you well do you watch do you watch i think my sister and i we were planning on starting to watch ozark because every at dinner last night everyone is just like that's the that's the show to binge everyone loves it i have a suggestion on netflix there's a like little documentary called cripp camp did you see it no it's so touching if you need an uplifting story right now.

[193] It's a really great one.

[194] It's about a camp for people with disabilities.

[195] Yeah.

[196] And, you know, from the, I think it was the 80s and how they came together.

[197] And it's just really beautiful.

[198] Oh, cool.

[199] I think I saw that people are raving about how good it is.

[200] Crip camp, yeah.

[201] Oh, last night, everyone was giving recommendations.

[202] And basically everyone in my family is, we're all going to watch 13th.

[203] I've been hearing a ton of people talk about that.

[204] Yeah, I think that's the next book in our book club.

[205] Is everyone go watch that on Netflix?

[206] Because it's supposed to be incredible and it really lays out a lot of the stuff that like, you know, everyone's kind of getting a really fast education about how people have been, how Black America has been forced to live for so long.

[207] And we have been willfully, blissfully ignorant about it.

[208] And it's really nice because a lot of people are interested in not being that way anymore that I know that I don't know if they would normally have been that way totally um or acknowledge cool that we all have those tendencies and it's ingrained in our society so if none of us are infallible because you know we were raised in in the school system and in this fucking government and the justice system so all we can do is is uh get better yeah there's so many resources to do that you know, like the Criterion channel has taken the paywall off so you can go watch like black directors.

[209] They've done a whole thing now where that's just kind of open so that people go and specifically watch black film, which I was looking at that I'd heard of like two or three of these movies where it's like so I guess you would have to be specifically like a like a searching for it.

[210] Yeah.

[211] Yeah.

[212] You would have to be very specifically in the know about film to have stumbled on these movies and now they're just like putting it all in the front and go, hey, don't go rent the help and tell yourself you've done anything.

[213] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[214] Absolutely.

[215] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[216] Exactly.

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[229] But in the first, I don't know if you remember this, but in the first couple of days of the protests, there were those pictures of, you know, say it was like day two or three.

[230] And then there was the photo pictures of cops and videos, cops kneeling with protesters during the day.

[231] Yes.

[232] And people were retweeting that and being like, oh, look, good news kind of vibe.

[233] There's good cops out there too.

[234] And then a lot of people came back said basically that's copaganda and don't because those same cops that are kneeling during the day are beating the living shit out of protesters at night like it's it was really surprising and it was the kind of thing that I think is very much like when you just want the the uncomfortable bad part to be over you're like here look everyone's getting along again yeah and I think it's a natural human reaction it's you know it's basically saying it's all settled down don't worry about it right But that was not the case.

[235] And people then even started, like, brought back up and started retweeting the picture that was from the 2014 protests, which was a 14 -year -old black boy named Devante Hart, who was crying and hugging a cop in Portland, Oregon.

[236] And that was from the Michael Brown protests.

[237] And that got circulated a little bit.

[238] And then very quickly, people came in and said, if you don't know the background of this story, and this boy's life, you better look it up because this do not retweet this picture.

[239] Totally.

[240] And the first person that I saw do that, I was just like, oh, my God, because I had listened to lots of podcasts and read lots about it.

[241] And it is a devastating and horrible story.

[242] One of the more shocking true crime stories there is.

[243] And it's the story of Devante Hart and the murder suicide of the Hart family.

[244] And that's what I'm doing.

[245] That's what I'm doing this week.

[246] Wow.

[247] Yeah.

[248] heavy and I think it's like it's heavy it's that kind of thing like if people have to know totally um that those when these things happen it is that it's a fake band -aid that it's a momentary makes every momentarily makes everybody kind of feel better and it's on the today show and you know all the anchors can be like that's what a beautiful moment and then yeah in the old kind of pattern that we had when everybody worked and left their house in the morning and worked 40 50 hour days and you know, just we're always trying to distract themselves and we're exhausted and pre -quare, as I like to call it.

[249] Nobody wanted to take the time to kind of go any further than that.

[250] They just wanted things to be okay.

[251] Yeah.

[252] It's not okay.

[253] And we got a deal.

[254] And we can't go back.

[255] We can't go back to the way we were because it's just unacceptable.

[256] And we're literally teetering on the brink of authoritarianism.

[257] Like we're teetering on the brink of we've seen like military action on our own citizens of America.

[258] That's beyond most people's like the scope of our imagination.

[259] People like the propaganda that tells them that everything's okay because then they can blame, you know, the citizens and the protesters for the military action, even though, you know, it's bullshit.

[260] It's propaganda.

[261] I love the term copaganda.

[262] Carpaganda.

[263] It's so good.

[264] Yeah.

[265] It's trying it's trying to elicit an emotion from you so that you will, you know, not care.

[266] Not give a shit.

[267] Yeah.

[268] So like that happened the first day of a protest in L .A. I remember because I was watching it, I couldn't go down there.

[269] I was too, I'll be honest, I was too scared because of coronavirus.

[270] I was like, I can't, I'd been by myself for three months.

[271] I'm not going to go stand in a big group and then just like take my chances.

[272] As I watched it on.

[273] Twitter, people were going, okay, this is a complete, three hours of a completely quiet, peaceful protest that's actually really positive and beautiful.

[274] And then they come upon, after three hours, they come upon an old abandoned cop car in an intersection that with no cops anywhere.

[275] And it's like an old kind of tourist like 90s model cop car, really old.

[276] And it's just sitting there.

[277] And then all the sudden someone lights it on fire and it's like three people specific there's like video of the specific people yeah and so and everyone's kind of standing around like what's this and then now the nightly news has the helicopter shot of a protest with all these thousands of people and then a burning cop car right which when i saw that first of all the people it was people i knew and people that like they were just like hey we need to say this this is super weird this car just showed up yeah like we're on the ground reporters basically going people need to cite this this is not like and also like a burning cop car is what happens at the end of like like a hockey riot you know what I mean like a championship team when everyone shit faced already and it's a bunch of fucking dudes two a m yeah it's like somebody's got their shirt off and they're fucked up and scream we've seen it bringing their children to these protests and their dogs that's not fucking it's not they don't even have matches they all use vapes probably it's like yeah it's three o 'clock in the after fucking noon no one is lighting cop cars on fire but and the same thing happened in seattle it was daytime cop car on fire where you're like i don't buy it i don't i just don't buy it but then that's the thing of looters then they start talking about looters and the property damage the bricks that are randomly sitting out outside of properties out of fucking nowhere or did you see the video of the woman who some kids are driving around in a in a burgundy jeta and they're handing bricks to black kids out the window and this woman goes back walks it back this black woman comes up to the car and it's like what the fuck do you think you're doing that's so disrespectful don't go out don't go around here handing bricks out to people what are you trying to do and they're like going no no no it's fine and it's like that that whole thing of outside agitators it's fucking outside agitators so that your parents and so that your stepbrother and so that your stepbrother fucking David can sit in his fucking living room and feel justified about what his what our country's doing to our citizens because of this you know because of so -called like looters not to say there wasn't looting or property damage there absolutely was but that wasn't the that wasn't the story that wasn't that wasn't the majority of what was happening and then what about the thing in new York where they tried to say that there was $2 .1 million worth of stuff stolen out of a jewelry store.

[278] And then that owner of that jewelry store came forward and said, we don't display jewelry in the window at night.

[279] Nothing was stolen.

[280] And everyone's just like, whoa.

[281] Like that kind of shit where people are like, do you see what we've been saying this whole time about this kind of like the optics propaganda to make the average quote unquote person basically turn against.

[282] a movement like that that's real so it's in my story it's totally in my story too okay um it's yeah when when your government doesn't respect journalists then how can you trust any anything any information you're getting right unless it's from a trusted source the framework is all yeah it's it's it's we're in a very unprecedented time right now totally so this is one of the earliest versions of that and And as dark as it is on the face of it of just what it was, it's, it's much sadder and worse deep down.

[283] So majority of this information is from the New York Times, the Seattle Times, and the New York Times article is by a writer named Matt Stevens, specifically, the Oregonian, The Guardian, and Investigation Discovery .com.

[284] On August 9th, 2014, 18 -year -old Michael Brown is shot six times and killed by Ferguson, Missouri police officer.

[285] officer Darren Wilson.

[286] And this murder sparks outrage, obviously, in Ferguson.

[287] And it ignites over a week of protests against police brutality.

[288] Protesters chant the phrase hands up, don't shoot, Michael's final words.

[289] When reports of these protests are shown on the news, most Americans are shocked at the violence, the brutality, and the heavy militarization of the police force and their tactics.

[290] I shouldn't say most people are shocked.

[291] I should say white America is shocked.

[292] But I don't think a lot of us knew that they had fucking tanks and that they were willing to use them.

[293] Right.

[294] So this leads to an investigation into Darren Wilson's actions, but on November 24th, same year, when the St. Louis County grand jury does not indict Darren Wilson for Michael Brown's murder, people, of course, are outraged and the protests start again.

[295] But this time, it's all across the nation.

[296] So, of course, they do protest in Portland, Oregon.

[297] And during a November 25th protest, a 12 -year -old boy named Devante Hart, he's there and he's wearing a sign around his neck that says free hugs.

[298] A Portland police sergeant who's working the protest sees Devante's sign, calls him over, they talk, they shake hands, and at some point, Devante, who is clearly stressed and upset, begins to cry.

[299] And so this police sergeant points to DeVante's sign and says, hey, can I have one of those?

[300] And they hug.

[301] Freelance photographer Johnny Nguyen snaps a photo of this moment and then he sells it to the Oregonian and it immediately goes viral.

[302] It shared hundreds of thousands of times on social media.

[303] It's on ABC News, CBS News, The Today Show.

[304] It's even referenced in a sketch that week on Saturday Night Live.

[305] And when the Oregonian asked Devante why he was giving free hugs at the protest, he said that he was, quote, trying to show peace that there was a different way to handle it.

[306] Now, while Devante's intentions as a 12 -year -old boy are very noble, critics see the photo as propaganda that detracts from the real issue at hand, which is the constant and unprosecuted murder of unarmed black citizens by the police.

[307] Guardian writer Jonathan Jones explains it this way.

[308] He says A picture does not have to be staged to be a lie.

[309] It just has to be massively under -representative of the wider facts and enthusiastically promoted to iconic status in a way that obscures those facts.

[310] Wow.

[311] Yeah.

[312] So the popularity of Devante's photo draws both positive and negative attention to the family.

[313] One of Devante's mom's Jen Hart tells the Oregonian that their family has been receiving death threats because of it and they begin limiting their time in public and they do they do their best to keep a low profile but what's interesting is up until that point that's exactly the opposite of what jen and her wife sarah have been doing with their kids on social media so let's talk about the beginning of the heart family jen and sarah hart and sarah's maiden name was gangler are both originally from south dakota jens from huron and sarah is from Big Stone City, they meet in college after they both transfer to Northern State University in Aberdeen and they're both studying to become teachers.

[314] Only Jen graduates and both of their college careers are officially over in 2002.

[315] While they're dating at Northern State, they are met with a lot of bigotry.

[316] So in 2004, they decide to move to Alexandria, Minnesota.

[317] So since this is before same -sex marriage was legalized, Sarah goes to court in 2000.

[318] 2005 to have her last name legally changed to heart.

[319] And then that summer, Jen and Sarah decide to become foster parents, and they end up taking in a 16 -year -old girl.

[320] So when this girl would later be interviewed as an adult by the Seattle Times, she asked to remain anonymous.

[321] So we'll just refer to her as the 16 -year -old girl, basically.

[322] So she said that she'd been difficult to control.

[323] as a teen she skipped school she snuck out with friends in the middle of the night she sounds like every teenager i knew and was um she wasn't happy in her old foster home so when she's placed with the hearts she's totally ready to make a new start um and the first six months go well she notices sarah is the more quiet of the two and jen is more outgoing and also moodyer but overall things seem to be normal so they all live in a two -story house with like with a the dog and several cats, they take family camping trips, they go to concerts, they go to festivals, they go to sporting events together.

[324] But aside from that, doing stuff with her two moms, this girl is not allowed to go out with her friends.

[325] She can only go to school and go to her job at Subway, which is a little odd, a little strict, I would say.

[326] But then more things start happening that are making her kind of uncomfortable.

[327] For example, Jen and Sarah take her to the department store they both work at for her to get a makeover but she's this girl is a tomboy and she's not interested in it and she doesn't want it and she makes that very clear but they insist she gets it anyway so there's another time where they go to a Green Bay Packers game together and they bring footballs they each bring a football hoping that they'll get them signed by a player specifically by Jen's favorite player running back Amman Green and actually the girl gets Amun to sign her football, but only hers.

[328] And as she says, quote, it turns into a huge fiasco with Jen accusing her that she had done it to be a brat.

[329] And so then Jen gives her the silent treatment for several days.

[330] Wow.

[331] Yeah.

[332] So that's just the kind of thing where like, is it me?

[333] Is it you?

[334] The vibe is weird.

[335] Like what's going on?

[336] Because that's not parent behavior.

[337] Now.

[338] In early 2006, the hearts make a big decision.

[339] They decide they want to adopt children.

[340] And they include their foster daughter in the discussion.

[341] They tell her to get ready to be a big sister.

[342] And eventually, two sets of siblings come up that are available for adoption.

[343] So Jen and Sarah travel down to Colorado County, Texas to meet the kids.

[344] And everyone is excited.

[345] Then in late February, a week before the kids are to be placed in the heart's home, Jen and Sarah take their foster daughter to a therapy appointment.

[346] And while she's in this therapy appointment, she finds out from her therapist that she's being moved to a new foster family.

[347] What?

[348] That day.

[349] Holy shit.

[350] So she's driven to the new foster home.

[351] And when she gets there, all her stuff is already there.

[352] Holy crap.

[353] How traumatic.

[354] Yeah.

[355] And she never sees Jen or Sarah again.

[356] Oh my God.

[357] Yeah.

[358] When they're later asked why they gave their foster daughter up, Jen and Sarah would tell people that the teen had suicidal idealization and threats and that they did not want her, quote, negative energy to impact their children.

[359] Yikes.

[360] But according to the now adult foster child, she has no idea why they let her go because she says none of those things, those things were true.

[361] about her.

[362] Wow.

[363] Yeah.

[364] So that's our first big red flag that's about as big as a red flag could be just giving up a child because it's not because you want to basically start over with your new family.

[365] Just like abandoning them at the fucking therapist to deal with.

[366] And also it's a child that's already dealt with abandonment, a child that's already in crisis like that.

[367] It's horrible.

[368] Okay.

[369] So on March 4th, 2006, three children from Colorado County.

[370] Texas, Abigail, H. 3, Hannah, age 4, and Marcus, age 8, are placed in the heart's care.

[371] And six months later, their adoptions finalized.

[372] During that first year, Jen and Sarah complete 15 hours of training on topics like helping abused kids in care heal and something called racial diversity excitement, which basically trains people who are adopting children of different ethnicities to be proud of where they come from and who they are.

[373] The case worker assigned to the Hart family reports that Jen and Sarah are great parents and she recommends that she recommends them to then adopt a second set of siblings.

[374] So in June of 2008, they do just that.

[375] Devante age six, Jeremiah age four, and Sierra age three, all move from Houston, Texas to join the Hart family in Alexandria, Minnesota.

[376] Wow.

[377] So they have six children now.

[378] Six children.

[379] And these kids' mom, Devante and Jeremiah and Sierra's mom, addiction issues and they had been living with their aunt and their mom wasn't legally allowed to see them and then a caseworker finds out the aunt is letting the mother mother visit so all three children get taken away from the aunt oh god yeah which is horrible yeah I mean it's so it's it's so punitive and horrible totally so the next year 2009 same -sex marriage becomes legal in certain states so Jen and Sarah go to Connecticut and they get married and afterwards they announced that Sarah is trying to get pregnant via a donor.

[380] Yeah, so they already have six kids and now Sarah is trying to get pregnant.

[381] Unfortunately, the plan doesn't work.

[382] They never end up having biological children.

[383] So back in Minnesota, Sarah has a job as a manager in a department store and Jen is now a stay -at -home mom.

[384] And to their neighbors and their coworkers and their friends, the Hart family seems to have a really beautiful tight bond.

[385] They preach love and acceptance and unity they go camping together they go hiking together they grow their own food um and they're very at jen is very active on social media when facebook comes along she is all about it posting videos of the children constantly and all of their activities and all of the different things that they do and they basically are this beautiful example of this modern family two lesbian moms and six adopted black kids.

[386] But in September of 2008, a teacher at the kids' school notices that now six -year -old Hannah has bruises on her arm.

[387] So when the teacher asks her where they're from, Hannah says that her mom whipped her with a belt.

[388] Ultimately, no charges are filed, but Jen and Sarah pull all of the kids out of school and homeschool them for the next year.

[389] So the next school year, 2009, Jen and Sarah put the kids back into public school.

[390] But in November of 2010, the now seven -year -old Abigail tells her teachers about the owies that she has on her back and her stomach.

[391] She tells them that her mom, Jen, held her head underwater while punching and hitting her because Abigail had a penny and Jen thought she stole it.

[392] Oh, my God.

[393] Of course, the teachers report it.

[394] Authorities interview the kids.

[395] They all report having been spanked and having food withheld.

[396] from them as a punishment.

[397] When authorities interviewed Jen and Sarah, Sarah takes all the blame.

[398] And in 2011, she pleads guilty to misdemeanor domestic assault and she gets a year of community service.

[399] And this, despite the fact that the children basically say Jen is the one that's the most abusive.

[400] The one who doesn't take any responsibility for it.

[401] Ooh, that's fucked up.

[402] Yeah.

[403] So later that year, Hannah complains to a school nurse that she's hungry.

[404] She tells her she hasn't been fed all day.

[405] The nurse calls Sarah, who tells her, Hannah is, quote, playing the food card.

[406] Just give her water.

[407] So, yeah.

[408] So after this incident, Sarah and Jen pull all the kids out of school for a second time.

[409] And from then on, the Hart children are only homeschooled.

[410] They never go back to regular school again.

[411] Then in 2013, the hearts leave Minnesota and they move 1 ,500 miles away to the Portland suburb of West Lynn.

[412] Oregon and there they keep up their natural peace -loving appearances they raise goats and chickens in the yard of their rental house they go to music festivals and yoga retreats as a family again Jen documenting all of it on Facebook and there's one video I watched it and it was such a bummer there's this video that she posted and they were at um they were at this thing called the beloved festival um and it looks pretty hippie -ish it looks pretty you know kind of peace and love faux hippie shit which is sorry that's very negative but um so essentially this is like a video that kind of foreshadows the the viral photo that will be coming the next year essentially devante's wearing a zebra costume and he has the word love shaved into his head um and during a performer named exhibit he's on stage like sitting cross -legged and he's kind of chanting like archipela and it clearly it's like one of the yoga more yoga eve festivals I would assume yeah and as he's doing it you hear the audience start to go aw like that and here comes devante wearing his free hug sign in his little in zebra costume and he walks up and hugs this guy as he's chanting and the guy like smiles and hugs him back and Devante doesn't let go and this hug goes on for like two minutes and it's very upsetting like if you watch the video it looks like Devante is either crying or about to start crying and he won't let go this man holding on to the stranger yeah and it seems to me and this is purely editorial but that the singer is it starts out cute and then he can feel that this is like a child that needs a hug very badly that that this son like it just and maybe it's just because yeah knowing the whole story but it's a very um it's a very sad upsetting video but it also was it became like they became this family that was known at these festivals and known as at these you know these music events or whatever is like the two lesbian moms and their kids and so so that's the presentation of like that we're all here peace and love peace and love but it's like but kind of there is that element of you're parading your children around like you're there your props um because there there's another picture that I saw and it had it's Jen and she has Devante on her shoulder with his free hug sign and so it's just like look at my child and look at how I don't know give us attention give us um accolades yeah kind of a thing yeah so and which is like look that's fine but you know but then the idea that then behind the scenes it was like a fucking nightmare for those kids.

[413] It's horrifying.

[414] So the thing is that the heart's organ neighbors are skeptical.

[415] They, they are surprised at how small the children seem for their ages.

[416] They also notice that the kids, they never see the kids being like loud or boisterous or in any way, like even bratty, like anything you see a normal kid, like six kids piling out of a car.

[417] They say the kids all act like trained robots.

[418] And more disturbing, they're clearly afraid of Jen.

[419] So in 2013, someone like an anonymous caller calls the Oregon Department of Human Services and reports that the kids pose and are made to look like one big happy family, but right after the photo, they go back to looking lifeless.

[420] Jesus.

[421] Yeah.

[422] So when Child Services interviews the family, Sarah and Jen say that this is bigotry, that people don't understand their modern family dynamic, that they're being, it's prejudice, and they don't like the fact that they're lesbians are that they have a family and that's really what's happening.

[423] When the kids are interviewed and when they're asked how they feel about their home life, they all say, tell the social workers they're happy, but their expressions are lifeless and they don't seem happy at all.

[424] But because there's no overt evidence of abuse, child services closes the case.

[425] So two years later, when Devante becomes a viral sensation because of his free hugs photo.

[426] The Hart family now becomes the subject of national attention, and it's much more than Sarah and Jen want or are prepared for.

[427] Devante gets offers from TV shows to be a guest, but then they're also getting these death threats, according to Jen.

[428] So the family decides they've had enough of the spotlight.

[429] So in spring of 2017, they move again.

[430] And this time, it's to Woodland, Washington to basically get away from the commotion.

[431] Their new neighbors are a couple named Bruce and Dana DeKalb.

[432] And the DeKalbs are very excited to get to know their new neighbors and they're this big bustling family, but they soon find out it's not as easy as they thought it would be.

[433] The hearts and their children are usually inside the house with the blinds drawn most of the time.

[434] And when the neighbors do see them outside, they're not very social until a couple months later in August when the decalbs hear a knock on their door at 1 .30 in the morning.

[435] It's Hannah Hart.

[436] And she's saying that she just jumped out of her second story window.

[437] Her two front teeth are missing.

[438] They think she's like six or seven years old.

[439] She's 14 years old.

[440] Whoa.

[441] And she says to the decalbs, don't make me go back there.

[442] They're racist and they abuse us.

[443] She begs the couple to take her to Seattle.

[444] But before the decalbs can even figure out what's happening, Jen and Sarah show up at their front door.

[445] Oh, my God.

[446] Yeah.

[447] Jen asks us speak to Hannah privately upstairs, so they go into a separate room, and then pretty soon after, they come downstairs, and they all leave.

[448] And then the next day, the three of them come back, and they've made Hannah write an apology to the DeKalb's, and they explain that Hannah is bipolar, and that she was upset because her cat died and that she knocked her own teeth out in an accidental fall.

[449] And basically, that was a thing, apparently they would say, Jen would tell people, these are drug babies.

[450] And so they're difficult sometimes.

[451] Anytime people would be suspicious or anything, it would be she would use this drug baby excuse.

[452] Later, Dana DeKalb would tell the New York Times, she was just so convincing about Jen and Jen's excuses.

[453] And of course, the couple are left with a terrible feeling about their new neighbors, but after that strange night, anytime Dana DeKalb would try to speak to the heart children, they would not respond to her.

[454] Until six months later, the now 15 -year -old Devante shows up at the DeKalb's door asking for food.

[455] And as Bruce feeds him, Devante nervously asks him not to tell his parents.

[456] Bruce assures him he won't.

[457] And then DeVonte visits his neighbors for food like it's a weekly occurrence.

[458] He even leaves them a wish list of food he wishes, like, wants to have, and he asked them to leave groceries in a hidden box by the fence so his moms won't catch him.

[459] Oh, my God.

[460] So this goes on for a little while, but the decalbs are, of course, totally torn.

[461] They don't want to break their promise to Devante, but they know that these children need help.

[462] So finally on March 23rd, 2018, they call child protective services.

[463] Yeah.

[464] But do it.

[465] Right?

[466] But when a caseworker shows up at the heart's house, for a home check, no one answers the door.

[467] And then the next day, the DeKalbbs notice that the Hart family car, which is a Yukon SUV, is not in the driveway.

[468] And on that same day, Sarah's coworkers get a text from her saying that she's sick and she won't be able to come into work tomorrow.

[469] So two days later, on the morning of Sunday, March 25th, Jen Hart is captured on a Safeway security camera in Fort Bragg, California, buying groceries.

[470] And this is the last time anyone will see her alive.

[471] On Monday, May 26th, 2018, California police get a call at around 3 .38 p .m. from a German tourist who's passing through Mendocino County on Highway 1.

[472] It's kind of, it's just north of Fort Bragg near a town called Westport.

[473] And she reports seeing an upside down SUV at the bottom of a cliff.

[474] When officers arrive on the scene, they find the bodies of Jen Hart in the driver's seat and Sarah Hart wedged between the smashed roof and the rear seats.

[475] A search of the crash site continues for three weeks, and during that time, the remains of three of the kids, Marcus 19, Jeremiah 14, and Abigail 14 are all found near the SUV.

[476] The body of Sierra, who's now 12, is found on the beach north of the crash site.

[477] It takes them a year to find 15 -year -old Hannah's body.

[478] When they finally do find the skeletal remains in May of 2018, her biolary.

[479] mother comes to give DNA so that they can confirm that it is Hannah, which is just devastating.

[480] 15 -year -old Devonty's body is never recovered.

[481] The crash is initially thought to be an accident.

[482] And I remember when these reports came out and it was the accident.

[483] Because it's Northern California.

[484] So, you know, it kind of broke up there first.

[485] But then the investigators noticed there's no skid marks at the scene or any other indications that Jen tried to stop the car in any way.

[486] And then when the toxicology report comes back, it shows that Jen was drunk at the time of the crash.

[487] She'd had like the equivalent of about five beers and that Sarah and at least two of the kids had diphenhydramine in their system, which is the active ingredient in Benadryl that causes drowsiness.

[488] So when Sarah's phone records are recovered, this is when they know that it was not an accident.

[489] Because as Jen drove, Sarah Google searched the phrases, how easily can I overdose on over -the -counter medication?

[490] What?

[491] Can 500 milligrams of Benadryl kill a 125 -pound woman?

[492] And how long does it take to die from hypothermia while drowning in a car?

[493] What the fuck?

[494] So they realized they fully knew what they were doing.

[495] And when the cars, this type of car has like a, black box like computers thing and when they recover that and um get the information from it the car speed at the time of the accident it was going around 90 miles an hour and there was no use of the brakes whatsoever holy shit so basically jen basically probably got drunk to to work up the courage to do this and the and then sarah and the kids took a bunch of to Benadryl so they would be either asleep or drowsy and then she drove off a hundred foot high cliff and killed her family in a murder suicide.

[496] How could you fucking do that?

[497] How could you do it?

[498] Steer tort, how could you even bring your fucking self to do that?

[499] It's, it's I mean that I can't even wrap my head around that.

[500] It's so insanely bizarre but clearly the things that were happening in that family like i i talked to my sister about this because my sister's um got a phd in child development and she's been a teacher for 30 years and she knows all that stuff and she's saying that whole thing of them keeping like isolating those kids so they didn't have friends and the only connections they had were teachers and when that started going bad they cut that off too keeping those kids inside the house so no one could talk to them clearly the inside of that house really bad things were taking place and there was a podcast that came out like pretty soon after it happened uh i think it's called the broken hearts yeah it was like a whole it was a whole series about this right one of the things was they started they found all this evidence that jen was online like hours and hours a day playing a one of those communal games i can't remember what it was called, but she, so she's the stay -at -home mom, but she's literally on the computer, she ran a game.

[501] She was like, essentially, there's a whole part where a guy gets on there and is like, I can't, I had no idea she had a family.

[502] The amount of time she spent on this game, it like makes no sense.

[503] It's really, it's, but it's like a really horrible, bizarre mystery that, that like only the friends and family.

[504] And there's a lot of people who like knew them from those festivals that, you know, had met them and bought into that.

[505] They were like, there was nothing that made them think except for the fact that those kids were tiny and skinny.

[506] Yeah.

[507] But other than that, it was like these two very active involved moms.

[508] So it seemed that they just bought the whole presentation.

[509] And of course, it's that thing of optics.

[510] It's that it's the two -dimensional life you present on Facebook or you present in one picture.

[511] It makes everyone go, oh, good, that's what's happening.

[512] goodbye.

[513] I don't have to worry about that.

[514] That's it.

[515] And that's not the truth.

[516] And that is the awful reality of the life of Devante Hart, the crying boy hugging the cop in 2014, and the murder suicide of the Hart family.

[517] Oh my God.

[518] Jesus, that makes me want to cry.

[519] It's horrible.

[520] It's just so heartbreaking.

[521] Wow.

[522] Good job.

[523] Thank you.

[524] That's the reason it's so much easier to like, you want to just look at a picture for three seconds ago.

[525] Yeah, everything's been taken care of.

[526] But because Because this is sometimes what's on the other side.

[527] Right.

[528] But I think part of like why you and I and a lot of us love true crime is because it's that willingness to go, I do want to look at it.

[529] I do want to know the bad things that are happening.

[530] I do want to see what else there is and what can be done and what can be prevented and how we make sure this, it doesn't happen anymore.

[531] Yeah.

[532] And an acknowledgement that your life isn't the only story, that there's so many stories out there that deserve to be heard as well and a desire to hear them.

[533] It's a case I've wanted to cover for a long time, but I wanted to get it right.

[534] I'm going to tell you about an unprecedented case in British history, and it's this murder that completely overhauled the British law and leads to changes in policing and how people of color are treated by the system.

[535] It's an epic story, and this is the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

[536] I got information from Chatham house there's an article by brian kathcart um from the independent the guardian bbc news an article by dany shaw there's this little sweet baby angel on youtube who does true crime videos her name is georgia marie what yeah isn't that funny hi and she's british she's british so she kind of understand some of the nuances and she had you know known about this case all her life whereas i had never heard of it before you know so yeah i've never heard of it yeah tagged me in it But it's huge there.

[537] And then there's a documentary, Stephen Lawrence, Justice for a Murder.

[538] It's on the Real Crime UK YouTube.

[539] It's really good.

[540] Okay.

[541] I got a lot of info from that.

[542] So let me give you some background.

[543] Stephen Lawrence is born on September 13th, 1974, in southeast London, in a neighborhood called Plumstead, and it's in the Greenwich Borough.

[544] Stephen's parents are Neville and Doreen Lawrence.

[545] They're Jamaican born.

[546] They're totally religious, hardworking.

[547] people.

[548] Neville's a carpenter and a tailor and a plasterer.

[549] Hey, my grandpa was my grandpa was a plasterer.

[550] Really?

[551] My grandpa was the president of the plasterers union in San Francisco.

[552] That's right.

[553] Yeah.

[554] Sorry, I just had to know.

[555] Because I had to look it up to be like, what exactly is that?

[556] That's when the, when you put up the drywall and then you make the, you put the thing on that's top.

[557] So it's like an actual wall.

[558] Yeah.

[559] Yeah.

[560] And then it goes beyond that with like the decorative, like the decorative, what do they call them up there?

[561] Like Wayne's coding or the border?

[562] Yeah, yeah.

[563] They're like, they can get really good at that stuff like that.

[564] Yeah, that's what he did.

[565] Oh, my God.

[566] And Doreen is a special needs teacher.

[567] And Stephen is the oldest of three kids.

[568] He is super smart.

[569] He excels at school.

[570] His brother later says that no matter how well he did in life, Stephen was always just a little bit better than him.

[571] And, you know, one of those kids who like, get it easy, don't have to study.

[572] Yeah.

[573] So the vicar of his church who knew Stephen and his family, called Stephen and it's S -T -E -P -H -E -N so it's not Stephen like Stephen called it called him a delightful human being he'd love to listen to music especially soul and R &B and when he's just seven years old he decides he wants to be an architect and by 1993 at 18 he's studying for his A levels which is like the end of high school in England and planning to go to university for architecture so like this has been his passion since he was seven and he this is what he was going to do with his life and he's doing it yeah the greenwich borough in the 90s is consisted mostly of white people there's a lot of poverty and because of this the people of color who lived there experienced a lot of racist violence and I think you and I both read about a lot of um how it was there in the 90s and skinheads were rampant racism was the norm sorry I'm not saying it's not now either but it almost was like you know celebrated it seemed at the time.

[574] Yeah.

[575] Because that's how they do it.

[576] That's how the upper class keeps the working class down is they set, they pit people against each other.

[577] Right.

[578] So in Greenwich, the borough was actually one of the racist hotspots of the country at the time.

[579] And there are hundreds of incidents of racial harassment being reported to the lease every year.

[580] But this just fueled Stephen and his family, you know, they were determined to succeed in life.

[581] He was a really hard worker.

[582] He had a really supportive, strong family that helped him believe in himself.

[583] And, you know, he was going to make it.

[584] So, but on the night of April 22nd, 1993, about 10 .30 p .m. After Stephen and his best friend, Duane Brooks, by the way, they're both black, they'd spend the evening hanging out and they're on their way home attempting to catch a bus in the Eltham neighborhood.

[585] When they don't see the bus coming, Stephen goes out into the store.

[586] street to see if it's like, if you can see it heading down the road.

[587] So, um, Dwayne from the sidewalk notices that there's a group of five or six white teenagers on the opposite side of the street.

[588] And Dwayne calls out to Stephen to ask if the bus is coming.

[589] And then the teenagers notice the two Stephen and Dwayne and they start shouting racial slurs at the two boys calling them the N word.

[590] And then out of nowhere, the entire group of these white teenage hoodlums run towards Stephen and Dwayne.

[591] Duane, like, runs in the opposite direction, but he stops when he realizes that Stephen hadn't run, and he had been surrounded by the group.

[592] And it's, I know, it's terrifying.

[593] It's later described as if they were engulfing him.

[594] Yeah.

[595] And in the documentary that I watched Stephen Lawrence Justice for a murderer, they do reenactments that's just like, it's terrifying.

[596] So it lasts only like 10 seconds, the attack.

[597] But it's witnessed by three people who were also at the bus.

[598] up.

[599] Can you fucking imagine?

[600] And then the gang runs off and Duane comes back, grabs his friend off the ground and he's like, let's run in case they come back.

[601] And so they start running, but after about 130 yards, Duane like can tell that his friend has hurt worse than he thought.

[602] So he turns around.

[603] He's like, what's going on?

[604] And he sees his best friend Stephen Lawrence collapse onto the sidewalk.

[605] So Duane goes to a nearby phone booth calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that he thinks his friend had been hit in the head with what maybe what he thought was a crowbar he like couldn't tell so duane um said you know he says send ambulance and he tries in the meantime to flag down passing cars but there's not a lot of cars laid out late at night but a couple who are walking home from a prayer meeting at church do stop to help oh thank i know and meanwhile the bus arrives and the three witnesses get on and leave um 20 minutes after they leave yeah i know one of them was actually a friend of her or like lived in the neighborhood new stephen so he went home and told stephen's parents what had happened so and then 20 minutes after the attack full 20 minutes instead of an ambulance showing up a police car shows up and dwayne is like kind of loses a shit at this point because he's like my friend is seriously hurt he can tell he's yelling and asking why there isn't an ambulance and the police later report um that they describe them as aggressive and agitated which is like well no shit but Yeah.

[606] The officers who, of course, are trained in CPR, they test Steven's pulse, which is weak, but they don't find any other signs of head trauma, as Dwayne had reported.

[607] So they're like, well, that's not true.

[608] And then they do see that Stephen is bleeding, but they don't actually check for any other wounds.

[609] And it's cold.

[610] You know, it's in the middle of, it's in the middle of April.

[611] So it's cold.

[612] So he's all these layers on.

[613] So they don't take off his layers to see, you know, what injuries he has.

[614] Instead, They just leave him there.

[615] They don't administer any form of first aid and spend the time waiting for the ambulance questioning Dwayne, like as if he was involved in it.

[616] But it's obvious to even the bystanders who had stopped that Stephen is struggling to hold on to life.

[617] So this woman who had been part of the prayer couple, her name's Louise Taft, she puts her hand on Stephen's head and whispers in his ear, you are loved, you are loved over and over.

[618] And that's probably the last thing that Stephen ever heard.

[619] When the ambulance finally does arrive, paramedics examines Stephen.

[620] I mean, he's this sweet 18 -year -old kid who's going to be an architect.

[621] Like, it's just, it's so senseless.

[622] The paramedics examine Stephen, and they don't find any vital signs.

[623] And when they pick him up and load him into the stretcher, they're like, oh, shit, there's a huge pole of blood on the ground beneath him.

[624] they had to the hospital around 11 .05, 35 minutes after the attack and try to restart his heart, but ultimately are unsuccessful and Stephen is dead.

[625] Meanwhile, he had been stabbed twice.

[626] Once in his arm that hit a major artery and then once like through his collarbone that hit another major artery.

[627] It was just these like, I don't know.

[628] Who knows it was by chance or on purpose.

[629] You don't stab someone to not kill them.

[630] But it just nicked these two arteries perfectly.

[631] Meanwhile, the crime scene, the scene's not properly searched.

[632] It doesn't seem like anyone is in charge.

[633] Instead, the investigators focus their attention on Dwayne and his possible involvement in what happened.

[634] So instead of, like, searching for his attackers, which Dwayne is telling them had been a group of white teenagers yelling racial slurs, the police decide it's too late to wake people up by going door -to -door and they don't do anything.

[635] So as the investigation begins, the officers suspect, Dwayne had something to do with it.

[636] You know, they thought maybe they got in a fight and went too far, maybe it had something to do with drugs.

[637] Duane denies it.

[638] He insists that the attack was racially motivated and the attackers had been yelling the N -word and, you know, racial slurs.

[639] Police are able to track down all three witnesses who had been at the bus stop at the time of the attack.

[640] And they take their statements.

[641] It corroborates Joanne's account.

[642] So they can't keep fucking blaming him.

[643] Yeah.

[644] All of them say that it was a sudden and short, unprovoked attack.

[645] And then within 12 hours of the attack, police get a ton of tips from around the neighborhood, including a witness who gives a pseudonym.

[646] I think he's like a skinhead even.

[647] So like he's fucking ratting these people out.

[648] And there's an anonymous female who calls into the police and an anonymous note is left on a police car windshield, and there's another one in a phone booth, like naming these specific people.

[649] So over the next couple of days, detectives receive 26 different tips, many of which point the finger at the same suspects.

[650] All these tips point to local teens, Gary Dobson and David Norris, and they're gang.

[651] And they're known for racism.

[652] They're known for always carrying knives around with them.

[653] It's five boys altogether.

[654] they're all like 16 or 17 years old and they're well known in the community and their schools as troublemakers they call themselves nutters with knives is their like gang nickname guys yeah um one of the boys lives on the same street that the attack took place so two of the boys neal and jamie a court um they call themselves the eltham craze which is a nod to the notorious cray brothers So they're already, like, obsessed with, you know, just, like, organized crime and fucking violence.

[655] Yeah.

[656] And Dennis, the other kid, Dennis, had been charged with stabbing a girl 12 months before it, but had been acquitted.

[657] So they're like, they should be known.

[658] They should be the first people on the list to, like, bring in.

[659] And basically, in the days following Stephen's murder, all they really did is put surveillance on one of the houses of the boys.

[660] And they watched and photographed, and you could see.

[661] the photographs.

[662] One of the boys is leaving the house with a big black trash bag full of fucking, who knows what, bloody clothes, the weapon.

[663] We don't know because they never fucking stopped them to check what was in the bags.

[664] Just four days after the murder of Stephen Lawrence, Detective Superintendent Brian Whedon says that no arrest had taken place because there just wasn't enough evidence.

[665] But also, he later claims that he hadn't heard a thing about the boys, the gangs, the gang.

[666] And also he said that he didn't know that the law allowed arrest upon reasonable suspicion.

[667] He didn't know?

[668] He says he didn't know.

[669] He's the detective superintendent of the London Metropolitan fucking police.

[670] And he says, I didn't know that I could take people in on reasonable suspicion.

[671] Well, maybe you should do brush up classes once a year about the law that you're supposed to be enforcing as a suggestion.

[672] Right.

[673] And so this is just a the beginning of this incredible, I mean, epic breakdown of the investigation and the mishandling of information and evidence, this case becomes fucking huge in the UK.

[674] And what possibly could have been a swift response and maybe could have led to the arrest of these boys who had killed Stephen Lawrence, it goes nowhere.

[675] Meanwhile, police are insisting that the crime wasn't racially motivated, despite the attackers not knowing their victim and yelling racial slurs while they attacked.

[676] I know.

[677] When the police don't continue investigating Stephen's parents who are the fucking, like, heroes of this story, these incredible people, Neville and Doreen, they're so frustrated by the lack of progress and they're getting mistreated by their victim's liaisons, like they're clearly under suspicion, which is driving them crazy.

[678] So they hold a press conference and say that nothing has been done about their son's death.

[679] And they say if our son was white, police would have cared more and done more.

[680] Yeah.

[681] But you're so like fine.

[682] The police don't care about that.

[683] But guess who's in fucking town at this exact time?

[684] You're not going to guess.

[685] The craze?

[686] Oh.

[687] No, political superhero Nelson Mandela.

[688] What?

[689] Are you serious?

[690] He's fucking in town.

[691] And they have a connection to him.

[692] And so Neville and Doreen are able to meet with him with Nelson Mandela, explain their situation to him.

[693] And it's only when he speaks to the press.

[694] He goes out in front of his hotel to specifically speak about Stephen's case that the police are finally shamed into action.

[695] Shit.

[696] That's unbelievable.

[697] Unbelievable.

[698] So the very next day on May 7th, two weeks after Stephen had been murdered, police raid the suspect's home.

[699] They arrest brothers Neil and Jamie A court and Gary Dobson, which seemed like the core group or the core, you know, people.

[700] And in the raids, they find a number of weapons.

[701] including knives as well as some clothes that they seize, but they do, they do, they don't do a full search.

[702] They don't rip up the carpet.

[703] Someone had given a tip that the a courts had, uh, left their knives in a floorboard.

[704] They didn't look for them, you know, it seemed pretty half -ass.

[705] What year is this again?

[706] Okay.

[707] So currently we're in 1993.

[708] Oh shit.

[709] I thought it was like the 70s.

[710] Holy fuck.

[711] So they bring the boys in for questioning, hoping that one of them will slip up and say something incriminating but instead they get these boys who have clearly been coached and on how to say nothing and they just constantly say no comment or I don't remember and despite despite being traumatized and afraid for his life fucking Duane the sweet baby who was the best friend is able to come in and pick two of the boys out of a big lineup and in his interview I mean it's this kid is it's incredible that he was able to do this so in June of 1993, the Lawrencees are finally able to hold a funeral for Stephen and there's a funeral procession through the streets of town following the Hearst.

[712] And by this time, there's a ton of anger in the black community and, you know, throughout London and there's a huge crowd outside the church.

[713] And it said that Neville and Doreen's composure and like they had this incredible air of like strength.

[714] On June 26th, the crowns.

[715] prosecution service or CPS then drops all the charges against all the boys citing insufficient evidence.

[716] Uh -uh.

[717] Yeah.

[718] Which is a huge blow to Stephen's parents.

[719] And at this point, public criticism against the police is huge and growing.

[720] Marches are being held protesting the lack of police response to the murder and the violence that is perpetrated against the community.

[721] One interesting thing is that it's standard procedure for any.

[722] unsolved murder in Britain to have an internal review of the police handling of the case, which I think is really fucking cool.

[723] So having a cold case, it can't just sit.

[724] It has to be reviewed.

[725] So one is done for Stevens murder.

[726] It's called the Baker report.

[727] And it gave the investigation under Stevens murder basically a fucking all good here.

[728] Nothing to see here.

[729] No, really?

[730] Yeah.

[731] They're like, no, looks fine to us.

[732] So, of course, again, his parents are Delta Blow.

[733] and the family and the whole community and eventually Bill Mellish this dude becomes the new lead investigator and he orders surveillance on one of the kids, Gary Dobson in his flat hoping the gang will talk about murder.

[734] So it's so fucking crazy in December 94, they put a tiny hidden camera in a plug socket in this kid's flat.

[735] Oh shit.

[736] Yeah.

[737] And so the footage you can see it in this documentary like the legit footage.

[738] These kids are fucking they're crazy they they act out beating up people they take knives and pretend to stab you know into the wall and the the the way they speak about who they want to kill and how and it's all you know minorities is horrific it's fucking horrific it's terrifying i mean um the footage shows them with knives at all times racial slurs and um the same footage shows the kid Neil A. Court with a knife on him at all time.

[739] So, like, the pattern fits the murder.

[740] But since they don't actually admit to the murder, which is incredible that they didn't, there's still not enough evidence to take anyone to trial.

[741] The Lauren's family refuses to give up.

[742] Neville and Doreen, they want justice for their son.

[743] They'll do anything for it.

[744] And a year after the murder, the family initiates a private prosecution, which is another thing they have in the UK.

[745] What that the Crown Prosecuting Service, so instead of like it being with us, it would be like the state of California versus whatever.

[746] Instead of that, an individual is able to make charges privately.

[747] So it's really rare there, but in April 1994, one year after the murder of their son, the Lawrence's, they do this against the initial suspects, Jamie Acourt, Gary Dobson, and David Norris, who they had the most evidence against.

[748] So it's only three of the five, which sucks.

[749] but, you know, they want to see justice done.

[750] Yeah.

[751] The family isn't entitled to legal aid for this motion.

[752] So a fund is established to pay for the analysis of forensic evidence and the cost of tracking down and re -interviewing witnesses.

[753] And all of the counsel on the case work pro bono.

[754] And it's headed by Michael Mansfield, which is like really awesome.

[755] So in April 1996, now the case finally comes to court with Dwayne.

[756] So Dwayne is the main witness for the prosecution because he, was able to, you know, pick out people in a lineup and explain what happened that night.

[757] The case rests on the evidence given by him the night of the murder as well as the lineups.

[758] I just said that.

[759] And some of the surveillance video from the flat is going to be used as well.

[760] But by then, Duane is super emotionally fragile.

[761] It's, he's, I'm sure, suffering from PTSD.

[762] Absolutely.

[763] He had this enormous survivor's guilt.

[764] And so this young man, I think he's like 20 at the time has all this pressure like the case rests on his shoulders being the plus he's probably scared for his life because it's the same he was you know like it happened to him too and there they are in court right and horrifying and another thing that I haven't talked about yet is that one of the kids David Norris his father is like a kingpin fucking criminal in like high powered criminal drug dealer in town so he's scared for his fucking life for sure yeah for sure.

[765] So he falls apart on the witness stand and his evidence is ruled inadmissible.

[766] I know.

[767] And the jury never gets to see this surveillance footage.

[768] And so on April 25th, 1996, the three are acquitted.

[769] Which also under British law means they can't be tried again because of double fucking jeopardy.

[770] Even if they later confess to the murders, they can't be tried for them.

[771] And these fucking assholes are smirking and being cocky as they leave the courthouse, you know, people are like crowded around the courthouse.

[772] They throw shit at them.

[773] But at this point, the public is like, fuck this shit.

[774] And so another inquest in to Stevens murder finally concludes that this was an unlawful killing in a completely unprovoked racist attack by five white youths.

[775] So finally, they acknowledge what actually happened.

[776] And now here's the thing.

[777] Despite how long this had been going on for and everything that had happened legally in the media, no one knew the identities of the five suspects because they had been underage when it happened.

[778] So it just had been these like five faceless, faceless kids.

[779] But now, our frenemy daily mail steps in.

[780] Uh -oh.

[781] Yeah.

[782] And you know, I mean, now we know.

[783] And of course, Georgia Marie was like, everyone knows the daily mail.

[784] They're the worst.

[785] Yeah.

[786] But to their credit, this horrible tabloid paper, but to their credit, the editor, Paul Dacra, he knew Neville Lawrence personally because Neville had plastered Paul's house.

[787] Oh, shit.

[788] And Paul was quoted as saying, quote, he did a lot of plastering work.

[789] He was clearly a very decent, hardworking man. So they have connections to Nelson Mandela.

[790] They have connections to Paul Dachra.

[791] Amazing.

[792] And so on February 14, the 1997, the Daily Mail runs a huge front page story.

[793] It says, in huge writing, murderers.

[794] The male accuses these men of killing.

[795] If we are wrong, let them sue us.

[796] And they post every photo of the kids and every single, not kids, they're men, every photo of the killers and all of their names.

[797] Jesus.

[798] That's, this incites this crazy political debate and whether it's okay.

[799] have done this and eventually the prime minister john major comes forward and says the daily mail had broken no laws and no and i know and none of the five people none of the five teens ever come forward to sue and you know they probably daily mail probably wanted them to because then they could depose them yeah you know and get their fucking high -powered lawyers to crack them so i bet they were wanting at least one of them to sue and so they didn't sue because they probably knew that it's So, it's like the one time a tabloid does something decent.

[800] Yeah.

[801] Like, I didn't know there were stories like this.

[802] Yeah.

[803] About tabloids.

[804] And you know what it is?

[805] And it's kind of horror.

[806] It's kind of drives you crazy because it's because the editor had met Neville.

[807] Right.

[808] And probably had these preconceived notions of people of color and meets one.

[809] And he's like, oh, he was actually a hardworking man. This is wrong because of my.

[810] singular personal experience every other parent to any other fucking child is probably a hardworking person too and they don't get this opportunity but it is amazing that Lawrence has got the opportunity and used it and used it yes in this one circumstance also if it's gone which is how it normally happens with tabloids which is they don't have to write we decide we accuse because that's what they do when they just put pictures up and blatant lies and you know like the first thing I think of as Madel and McCann's parents where they tried and convicted those people.

[811] Totally.

[812] In the press, I mean, who are, it's just, it's such ugly business.

[813] But what a tiny, shining, you know, silver lining there.

[814] And it's because these men were guilty.

[815] It's not, you know.

[816] Yeah.

[817] All right.

[818] So the next day, the video evidence of the boys inside the flat is released.

[819] And so people, just the anger fucking grows, the racism and the knives and the reenacting the attacks.

[820] And so on the 31st of July in 1997, more than four years after Stephen Lawrence was murdered, Home Secretary Jack Straw announces yet another inquiry into the judicial part of this case.

[821] And it's led by retired high court judge, Sir William McPherson.

[822] And this would go on to be known as the McPherson inquiry or the McPherson Report.

[823] Eventually, it comes out in February 99, it's a 350 page report.

[824] It concludes that the investigation into the murder of Stephen Lawrence had been, quote, marred by a combination of professional incompetence, institutional racism, and a failure of leadership.

[825] And the officers in the Metropolitan Police specifically involved are named and the entire force is criticized.

[826] It's this huge sweeping declaration of law enforcement in the UK.

[827] And it's really negative.

[828] Pissive.

[829] This is a lot of people in the institution off.

[830] The term institutional racism was first coin and first used in 1967 in the book Black Power, the politics of liberation.

[831] And Sir William McPherson defines it as, quote, the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their color, culture, or ethnic origin.

[832] It could be seen or detected in processes, attitudes, and behavior, which amounted to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness, and racist stereotyping, which disadvantage minority ethnic people.

[833] So that whole definition becomes like, you know, a huge talking point.

[834] Yeah.

[835] He just puts it right on the paper there.

[836] Yeah.

[837] No bullshit.

[838] McPherson puts forward a total of 70 recommendations that are designed to show zero tolerance for racism and to improve practices within the Met.

[839] And they include measures that would transform, you know, the whole attitude of police towards race relations and also improve accountability.

[840] And the response of the government is like, oh shit, sorry about that.

[841] And the home secretary Jack Straw, who had called for this inquiry, he accepted the charge of institutional racism.

[842] And he's like, yeah, it's not just in the police.

[843] He says, quote, any long established white dominated organization is liable to have procedures, practices, and a culture, which tend to exclude non -white people.

[844] Yeah.

[845] He also said that some truths were uncomfortable, but they had to be confronted.

[846] Within two years, 67 of the report's recommendations led to specific changes in practice or in the law in UK, 67 of the 70.

[847] The recruitment, retention, and promotion of black and Asian officers and the creation of the Independent Police Complaints Commission that has the power to appoint its own investigators is created.

[848] And as a result of this report, the entire force enacted.

[849] huge change from the top down.

[850] The report even made recommendations to change in the national curriculum.

[851] So they wanted to change the curriculum of the UK that would prevent racial prejudices and foster a culture of diversity, as well as saying that racist incidents in schools should be reported to people's parents and a record should be published by each school every year.

[852] Like they should be held accountable for it.

[853] And it was noted that especially they needed to reestablish the trust between the the minority ethnic communities and the police.

[854] So this is all great, but still, no one is being held responsible for actually murdering Stephen.

[855] And all five men, you know, still walk free.

[856] And some of those crimes are racially motivated, just showing that they're continuing, you know, they're probably cocky about it now and flaunting.

[857] They fucking think they got away with this.

[858] Of course.

[859] Yes.

[860] They got away with it four times.

[861] Yeah.

[862] But in 2005, as part of the recommendation of the McPherson report, Here's, okay, ready for this?

[863] The rule of double jeopardy is repealed.

[864] What?

[865] Entirely?

[866] It's repealed in murder cases and it's decided that a person acquitted of murder could be brought to trial again on the basis that fresh and viable new evidence comes to light.

[867] So the Lawrence's are like, this is our fucking chance.

[868] A secret cold case review begins and they start to search for new evidence.

[869] And finally, in November 2005, This happened in 1993.

[870] It's November 2007.

[871] It shared finally that the investigators have found forensic evidence, including a microscopic stain of Stephen's blood on the collar of Gary Dobson's jacket.

[872] Whoa.

[873] They went through all the clothing that had been sealed up for so long, and they searched it.

[874] They found fibers from Stephen's clothing and hairs that had a 99 .9 % chance of having come from Stephen on both Dobson's jacket and David Norris's jacket.

[875] Wow.

[876] Sorry, David Norris's jeans.

[877] So finally, science is caught up and it's able to fucking bear witness to what happened.

[878] And yeah, okay.

[879] So Gary Dobson and David Norris are arrested and charged on September 8th, 2010.

[880] Unfortunately, they're the only ones that there's enough evidence against, you know, meaningfully bring them to trial.

[881] Dobson's original acquittal is thrown out.

[882] And Norris hadn't been previously acquitted, so it's announced that the two would face trial for the murder in light of the new and substantial evidence.

[883] On November 15th, 2011, David Norris and Gary Dobson go to trial.

[884] And knowing this was probably the last chance to get justice for her son, Doreen Lawrence, is in court every day.

[885] Oh.

[886] The forensic evidence on three different pieces of clothing is the main evidence.

[887] And Duane, instead of having to, you know, have to have.

[888] it all on his shoulders is just able to give testimony describing what happened on the night his best friend was murdered so the night before he was to testify Duane's father died no I know and he's like I'm coming to court anyways to testify and he fucking shows up for his best friend yeah he's got this second chance and all they want from him this time is to tell them what happened to him They don't need him to identify anyone.

[889] Science is doing that, you know?

[890] Yeah.

[891] Yeah.

[892] They just want his story.

[893] Exactly.

[894] Holy shit.

[895] Yeah.

[896] The surveillance video is shown and showing that they are capable of this crime, you know, which is what the video does.

[897] It's almost like the judge could have ruled it inadmissible, which I could totally see here in the U .S. But really, it shows character in a pattern.

[898] Yes.

[899] So after three days of jury deliberation, 19 years after the fact, on January 3rd, 2012, Dobson and Norris are found guilty of the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

[900] And they are sentenced to life with a minimum term of 15 years and two months for Dobson and 14 years and three months for Norris.

[901] Unfortunately, the judge says the sentences that seem kind of light reflect the fact that they were both juveniles at the time of the offense, which sucks.

[902] because otherwise they would have gotten 30 years minimum.

[903] Right.

[904] In June 2013, there's, okay, so there's an interview with a former undercover police officer named Peter Francis that comes out in June 2013 and The Guardian.

[905] And he is like fucking spilling it.

[906] He's like, I was working undercover within an anti -racist campaign in the mid -90s.

[907] He is like, I was constantly pressured by my superiors to hunt for disinformation and taint the credibility and reputation of the Lawrence's.

[908] That's what he was tasked to do, is to make them look bad somehow.

[909] You know, you always see these like, okay, yeah, but you know, he had COVID or he had an arrest record for like petty theft or his parents were drug addicts.

[910] It's like this thing of every time.

[911] Every fucking time.

[912] There are people whose job it is to do that so that you don't care anymore about them and about justice.

[913] Just remember that next time you hear like that information.

[914] I went to fucking...

[915] Say it.

[916] Say it.

[917] I went to rehab for meth.

[918] It doesn't mean I don't deserve a fucking good and happy life, you know?

[919] Yeah.

[920] That's right.

[921] I don't want to talk about me. Take that out.

[922] I don't want to talk about myself.

[923] No, no, no. I think that's a very good point, Georgia.

[924] Because that's also the disparity between white and black experience.

[925] Right.

[926] Because that's like the guy that came forward and said, George Floyd and I, when we were 18, we both got arrested for passing fake $20 bills.

[927] Now it's a story I tell at dinner parties that's cute and he's dead.

[928] That's right.

[929] And that's really, that's what this that's what the point you're making.

[930] I mean, thank you.

[931] I tell you.

[932] I will tell you the point.

[933] Okay, but not surprising to anyone.

[934] There's no dirt on the Lawrence's to be found.

[935] They're fucking good people.

[936] Nelson Mandela loves them.

[937] Nelson Mandela loves them.

[938] So, you know, that comes out.

[939] It's this huge scandal.

[940] It's really fascinating.

[941] There's a lot That's insane.

[942] I know.

[943] And there's a lot more It sounds like a conspiracy theory.

[944] Like if you found that out and told people, people would be like, you're insane.

[945] I mean, I was reading some of these accounts of other undercover cops that were talking about infiltrating, you know, anti -racist campaigns.

[946] They're infiltrating, you know, the animal cruelty organizations, anti -animal cruelty.

[947] They're infiltrating them and they're fucking shit up in that organization on purpose.

[948] I mean, like the people who lit the car on.

[949] fire.

[950] I don't fucking for a second believe that they weren't working for someone and under someone's orders.

[951] Absolutely.

[952] Well, at this point, I feel like nothing has passed that kind of right.

[953] It all, it all bears considering because who the fuck knows what's going on.

[954] I think what we're saying is it goes all the way to it.

[955] And always has.

[956] Always has.

[957] And that's because it's built on a fucked up foundation.

[958] Okay.

[959] Yeah.

[960] Um, okay.

[961] So since then, amazing Doreen has set up the Stephen Lawrence charitable trusts and they quote work with young people from disadvantaged backgrounds to inspire and enable them and we also they say we also influence others to create a fair society in which everyone regardless of their background can flourish there's also an annual architecture award and a Stephen Lawrence Research Center which Doreen is chancellor of the university appointed in 2016 that's D. D. Montfort University.

[962] Uh -huh.

[963] Doreen also receives a fucking lifetime achievement award at the 14th Pride of Britain Awards in October 2012.

[964] She's given the title of Baroness on September 6, 2013, which is a very rare honor, I think, for civilians that doesn't happen.

[965] Yeah, they don't usually do stuff.

[966] Wait, did the queen show up or one of the lesser royals?

[967] Yes.

[968] Or is that how it worked?

[969] Maybe.

[970] Or the chancellor?

[971] I don't know.

[972] She sits on the labor benches in the House of Lords as a working peer specializing in race and diversity.

[973] That's right.

[974] Yeah.

[975] So she's up in it now.

[976] And on April 23rd, 2018, there's a memorial service to mark the 25th anniversary of Stephen's death.

[977] And Prime Minister Teresa May announces that Stephen Lawrence Day would be an annual national commemoration.

[978] of his death on the 22nd of April every year, starting last year in 2019.

[979] So he has a day now.

[980] Wow.

[981] Meanwhile, it's been over 25 years since the murder of Stephen Lawrence, which is one of Britain's highest profile killings in history.

[982] It led to dramatic reforms in the way police handle racially motivated crime, which is thanks.

[983] And it's Stephen's legacy.

[984] But of course, it's like the U .S., it's there's deep -seated racism.

[985] And it's not perfect.

[986] It's not even close to perfect.

[987] And a lot of changes still need to be made in society and in the justice system.

[988] Doreen says that she would like Stevens to be remembered as a young man who had a future.

[989] And Doreen and Neville, Lawrence, they have Stephen's body buried in Jamaica saying that London didn't deserve him.

[990] And that is the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

[991] And I want to also say that his charitable trust is at Stephen and it's S -T -E -P -H -E -N -Lorence .org.

[992] So you can check that out too.

[993] Amazing.

[994] Wow.

[995] Isn't that wild?

[996] Yeah.

[997] And thanks to Lily for her research and then, I mean, that was a hard one.

[998] Great job.

[999] Thank you guys for listening and for being here with us and for participating.

[1000] Yeah.

[1001] Yeah, we appreciate you guys showing up.

[1002] Let's keep showing up.

[1003] Let's keep showing up and doing our best and getting in this fight and doing what we can.

[1004] I don't know.

[1005] Stay safe and stay fucking angry.

[1006] And stay sexy.

[1007] Oh, and don't get murdered.

[1008] Goodbye.

[1009] Elvis, do you want a cookie?