Jonathan Van Ness

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Mrs. Mouse.

[3] Hello.

[4] Hello.

[5] We got to say something at the front of this episode.

[6] We do.

[7] I do want to also maybe put up a trigger warning because we talk about trans rights.

[8] Yep.

[9] In this episode and it could be triggering.

[10] For sure.

[11] You know, we want to warn.

[12] We end up, I would say inadvertently, we end up hashing out one of the debates, maybe two of the debates that are currently being had right now in the country.

[13] This is a very sensitive topic.

[14] Extremely, understandably, as it should be, a lot of people's rights are on the line.

[15] Yes, in many, many states.

[16] Yeah.

[17] So it's really important to have these types of conversations.

[18] It's my opinion that these conversations are happening a ton and that they're not happening in public as well.

[19] Right.

[20] Jonathan Van S. Yes.

[21] Who I want to say, I fucking love.

[22] I adore Jonathan, and I think that should be clear throughout this.

[23] but I fell in love with him on Queer Eye and I think started following him and reaching out to him.

[24] I think he's so funny.

[25] He is.

[26] He reminds me of all the great parts of just so playful and innately funny.

[27] He is.

[28] Yeah.

[29] It's also really important that we promote why Jonathan was here, which is he has new episodes of his podcast out every Wednesday, getting curious, which is fantastic.

[30] And he talks to a bunch of great experts.

[31] And he is so curious.

[32] And he's launching several other podcasts in the curious world, curious now and pretty curious.

[33] Curious now is where they are keeping up with the elections, with climate change, LGBTQIA plus, rights and other news stories.

[34] Pretty curious is where they're talking all things beauty.

[35] So please check those out.

[36] And also feel free to check out his books.

[37] Over the top, love that story.

[38] And peanut goes for the gold.

[39] So please enjoy this episode with Jonathan Vanness.

[40] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[41] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[42] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[43] I love your studio.

[44] It's so amazing.

[45] I'm recording mine in like my office, but it's not like, giving like podcast vibes.

[46] And then I started going to this cute studio in Austin that does get podcast vibes.

[47] And not that I don't love them, but I was like, I think I'm just gonna turn my content capture room into podcast vibes.

[48] So we just did that yesterday.

[49] The studio's not your space.

[50] Yeah.

[51] And it's like so nice just like come right over and we're like launching these like two new ones and it's like I actually like faster turnaround on them.

[52] You need to be right over there.

[53] Exposing all of your electrical.

[54] No, I love that.

[55] Easy access, you know.

[56] It's right there if you need to rewind or something.

[57] Feel free to take that idea and apply.

[58] No, it's really good.

[59] I like that.

[60] Also if you need a charge of fun.

[61] Don't throw up me with a good time because can I tell you because my husband is with me, not my assistant.

[62] My phone's almost dead.

[63] And how much does your husband love being treated as your assistant when he's in this situation?

[64] Oh, look, he has a portable.

[65] Mark, don't chime in on this, okay?

[66] I know you're going to be a fight.

[67] I love Mark's shoes.

[68] Cute, right?

[69] Yeah, really good.

[70] No, he's like so attractive.

[71] Yeah.

[72] And he's a ginger, which is exciting.

[73] I know, right.

[74] And if you learn probably from Mark, Ginger in England's a much different.

[75] different thing than it is here.

[76] Oh, God, yeah.

[77] You're like a full -on marginalized citizen in the UK.

[78] Oh, no. What was that?

[79] You know, like the ginger belt on the top of a Jerusalem batter.

[80] Oh, Duracel.

[81] That doesn't even work.

[82] It's very niche.

[83] That's gold.

[84] That's not red?

[85] Yeah.

[86] There's nothing more offensive than when someone's trying to slam you and they have it wrong.

[87] It's just like structurally not there.

[88] You can't fucking do it right.

[89] Right.

[90] It's like the foundations broke.

[91] I liked when you had one ear out was really giving me like singer songwriter, you know?

[92] Oh, sure.

[93] Do you long to be a singer?

[94] When asked what superpower I would want, I do want to feel what Adele feels like when she opens the whole cannon up and lets it blast.

[95] That has to feel euphoric.

[96] I want it so bad.

[97] The worst part is that sometimes I think I can.

[98] Sure.

[99] And the next thing I know, I'm really committed.

[100] And then when I end up listening to it, I'm like, wow, it's not going well.

[101] What I don't recommend to you, because I'm very similar, is to marry a professional singer because even in the moments you think...

[102] Okay, great.

[103] I made some assumptions.

[104] I did some thin slicing here.

[105] I did not think Mark was a professional.

[106] You're right, you're right.

[107] Assumption's making ass of music.

[108] He's actually like, I dreamed a dream of times on back.

[109] No. Well, you're not, okay.

[110] That's better than me. Yeah.

[111] Yeah, already.

[112] Okay, I just have to like name it.

[113] I have to get out of my system right now.

[114] I know that this is yours.

[115] I just have to name it or I'll never stop thinking it.

[116] And then I'm not going to be able to pay attention.

[117] I knew you were attractive, obviously.

[118] I have eyes.

[119] I exist on the earth.

[120] But IRL, the timbers are shivered.

[121] You are stunning.

[122] Do people often?

[123] Oh, my.

[124] How do you deal with being so, like, tall and gorgeous every day of your life?

[125] Oh, it's a beat down, you know?

[126] I definitely over indexed with men than I do with females.

[127] Well, because you are so in the arousal template of gay and queer and non -binary.

[128] It's the Adams Apple.

[129] It's the Scrib.

[130] It's also the asymmetrical tattoos.

[131] It's also, I mean, not to be discussed in so off the bat, but it's such shin you with fucking body, honey.

[132] Oh, wow.

[133] No, that hug, I was like, oh, God, dad, you know, it was like so safe.

[134] Mark, you come, hug me from the back.

[135] He's just, oh, my God, I'm so safe.

[136] You know what I'm saying?

[137] Never been safer.

[138] He's a really good huger.

[139] Oh, thank you, guys.

[140] Between the eyes, the hug, this double.

[141] I was like, I'm overwhelmed.

[142] And my therapist says that when you're feeling like that, you just have to name it.

[143] The alert.

[144] And then you're like, wait, everybody's just people.

[145] You don't have to sexualize everyone, you know?

[146] And then when you're saying, you're like, oh, my God.

[147] You two are the same.

[148] No, we're the same.

[149] Listen, in my research of you, I've discovered we're virtually the same person.

[150] Really?

[151] Yes, yes.

[152] And what's curious is I wonder if the same catalyst to become how we were.

[153] Maybe.

[154] I don't know.

[155] We'll get to that part.

[156] But fully relay.

[157] In fact, I was interviewing Jane Fonda, right?

[158] And the interview had gone beautifully.

[159] Casual.

[160] She's so wonderful, right?

[161] I actually not to also name drop.

[162] I did wash her hair thrice as an assistant.

[163] Yeah.

[164] An amazing salon where I got my start.

[165] Nicest, most amazing.

[166] Not to interrupt.

[167] No, you're the guest.

[168] Okay, so picture at 2009 or 10, Jane Fonda doesn't get dropped off at the salon.

[169] by a driver.

[170] She parked her fucking Prius.

[171] I could see from the windows, walked up, reads a paper.

[172] So classy.

[173] Tips really well.

[174] So fucking nice.

[175] Strong, right?

[176] Yes, but but kind.

[177] So nice.

[178] She called me Jesus.

[179] Oh my gosh.

[180] That's a really accurate description.

[181] I once greeted her with my hair blown out straight and she was like, oh Jesus, your hair is straight today because it was always curly.

[182] Right.

[183] She's really nice.

[184] She's really nice.

[185] Extraordinary hair.

[186] It's beautiful.

[187] Not to take away the comment, but it would be bad if it wasn't great, but it is great.

[188] Thank you.

[189] Be the equivalent of me not being in parallel park.

[190] You're like, well, your whole identity is in jeopardy now because this is what you're supposed to be able to do.

[191] Okay, Jane Fonda, interview's going great.

[192] And at the end of it, I say, I want to ask you a question.

[193] It's inappropriate, but I feel like you're not going to mind it.

[194] You have a hard time liking someone and not immediately assuming, well, then this should be romantic.

[195] Like, if I like you, then the next thing is romantic.

[196] And she goes, oh, my God, so much.

[197] I go, because I want to marry you.

[198] I don't know how to have the feeling of I respect you.

[199] I admire you.

[200] I'm impressed by you and not then go like and then I think I should be dating you.

[201] Okay, it's really funny.

[202] We're talking about that because I literally just did that with my social media manager.

[203] Sorry, my husband about it.

[204] We love Jared.

[205] His name is Jared and he's amazing.

[206] I was like, Mark, what is this feeling?

[207] Obviously, he's gorge.

[208] Four days later, I was like, it's admire.

[209] I admire him.

[210] I look up to him.

[211] But it's so rare that you think, or at least for me, because you're always just like, oh, that's fuck.

[212] But you don't have to do that because I'll add 26 me, not so much now, but I was like, what is this weird feeling?

[213] where it's not that I want you to split me in half.

[214] And I was like, admiration.

[215] I think if I'm being my most honest, what I think really happens in that moment is I admire her, I respect her.

[216] I want her to love me because I now want her approval because I've deemed her as really high status and wonderful.

[217] To me, the first thought of how to get her approval would be I know how to be romantic with this woman.

[218] I can do that better than I am a protester or an activist.

[219] These other things that might get her to like me, I don't know that I have that, but I know how to be romantic and loving with her.

[220] I kind of think that's why it's my first stop, is that's where I'm most confident to gain her love.

[221] I was struggling with an intrusive thought that entire time, at one, because I'm going to not respond to what you said and tell you what my intrusive thought was.

[222] Okay, wonderful.

[223] Which I thought it would go away if I needed it.

[224] I was talking about earlier, but it didn't.

[225] So far it's not working.

[226] Intrusive thoughts to me zero.

[227] Now I'm obsessed with you and Jane Fonda having fiery, hot, passionate sex.

[228] That's where my brain is, yeah.

[229] I mean, duh, the threesome of the ages.

[230] That is so fucking fucking gorgeous.

[231] You know what it's giving me?

[232] It's giving me fucking Emmanuel Macron and the First Lady of France.

[233] Wow.

[234] Because I just need more stories of older women getting their fucking cookies punched by like a hot, younger man. Yeah.

[235] Like, I want a real hot chemistry passion, older woman, younger man. It's time.

[236] Actually, do we just need the biopic of Emmanuel Macron?

[237] And I think was it his college teacher?

[238] The First Lady of France is college teacher.

[239] Obviously, there's a power imbalance, but at least it's not high school disgusting.

[240] You know, at least we're all fucking adults here.

[241] Yeah, yeah.

[242] But it's hot, right?

[243] I got to tell you a superpower you have.

[244] You're saying stuff that probably could get you in trouble, but you talk so fast.

[245] People are like, I think he just, wait, was that?

[246] But you're on to the next thing.

[247] Oh, I think you just fuck.

[248] No. Is that high of avoiding cancellation all these years?

[249] I think people are like trying to latch onto the thing they want to be mad at, but you're onto another thing.

[250] So quick.

[251] It's almost like Cedaris.

[252] He has that a little bit too where it's like, but then he's saying something else.

[253] And you're like, wait, but that's really interesting.

[254] And he lands the plane on the fifth thought.

[255] And you're like, oh, I guess none of that stuff mattered then.

[256] Because, wow, he wove that together.

[257] Well, I feel relieved.

[258] It's true.

[259] But I do think that you and Jane Fonda leading and a really hot coming of age.

[260] She was your, like, teacher in college.

[261] And you, like, moved back to, like, that college town because maybe you got, like, a job or something.

[262] Conventionally, there'd be a death of a friend.

[263] I was about to say.

[264] It's a tragedy.

[265] Because then I'm sad.

[266] Yes.

[267] I've been scripted.

[268] I don't fucking know.

[269] Obviously, yeah, tragic.

[270] I don't fucking know what I'm doing.

[271] We're not supposed to.

[272] To do this, it's a strike.

[273] We weren't allowed to crack this story.

[274] We just wrote.

[275] Strike it.

[276] It's like literally Watergate.

[277] We have to cut it out right now.

[278] Oh my God.

[279] So Jonathan, this is kind of a long time coming, wouldn't you agree?

[280] I've appreciated you on social media since queer eye first came out.

[281] No, I take that back.

[282] Gay of Thrones, of course, was the introduction to you.

[283] No, you didn't.

[284] Yeah, yeah.

[285] I'm not going to take too much credit.

[286] Kristen was obsessed with gay of Thrones.

[287] Do you got to pee again?

[288] No. My vagina is petrified.

[289] It's going to crack in half.

[290] It's going to fall out of my body.

[291] PQs?

[292] I'll do gay House of Dragons.

[293] just to do it because of, house of, well, house of drag, drag, house of fucking non -binary, bad bitch.

[294] It's too long.

[295] I think it needs work shopping.

[296] Yeah, we can't even do.

[297] We can't write up.

[298] We can't even do it.

[299] We can't come to us when the strikes over.

[300] Yeah, you're sorry.

[301] I'm hoping is soon.

[302] And then we'll come up with a great deal.

[303] It's like the nice thing anyone's ever said to me in my life.

[304] Okay, so first is Gay of Thrones.

[305] She watches it all the time.

[306] And then I'm in bed with her.

[307] So then I start watching it.

[308] And I think it's incredibly funny.

[309] Then comes queer eye.

[310] And I was so touched by that first episode.

[311] It was the guy that had a big beard and he had redness in his skin.

[312] I'm watching the episode with the unkempt beard in rosacea, not rosacea, but redness from psorias.

[313] Ding ding, ding, we also both have.

[314] Yeah.

[315] I have psoriotic arthritis.

[316] Oh my god.

[317] I just got diagnosed as psoriotic arthritis.

[318] I just got on my, whatever.

[319] Zell Jans or Humera?

[320] I'm not on Humera because of the fucking have.

[321] Oh, right, right, right, right.

[322] I'm on this other one.

[323] And I'm also on this other topical that's not a steroid and it's really giving me life.

[324] I've had the worst psoriasis for like three months.

[325] Temperature changes in stress and.

[326] Diet?

[327] I don't know if it's a diet.

[328] Mine is a hundred percent diet.

[329] Mine is so not.

[330] Because, like, I'll be eating clean forever.

[331] Bam.

[332] Then I'll eat a bunch of Taco Bell.

[333] But for me, it's not about clean or not clean.

[334] It's like garlic's clean.

[335] That's a whole food.

[336] I cannot eat garlic or I get a fucking rash immediately.

[337] And my joints hurt.

[338] And I love garlic.

[339] I can't have gluten.

[340] That's not dirty.

[341] I can't have peanut butter anymore.

[342] Peanuts, I found out.

[343] No, I'd rather just keep having psoriasis.

[344] Yeah.

[345] Those are, like, all my three favorite foods.

[346] I can't do that.

[347] Same.

[348] Just use whatever you're using.

[349] I'm just going to keep doing my Western topicles.

[350] Okay.

[351] Okay, okay.

[352] Yeah, and my injections.

[353] I'm just going to.

[354] My Western topicals.

[355] Well, you know what I'm saying?

[356] I'm not going to go to the root source, okay?

[357] Right.

[358] Don't hear the problem.

[359] Treat the symptom.

[360] Exactly.

[361] We're also both very well versed in 12 -step speak.

[362] Yes, very.

[363] And by the way, so my dad died in 2012, 22, 28 years sober.

[364] Mine did too.

[365] I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're step back.

[366] Two thousand 12, right?

[367] Yeah, it was July 6th.

[368] December 31st, 2012.

[369] Oh, my God.

[370] You guys are the same person.

[371] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[372] And in Michigan, it was actually the next year, but here, but here, when I got the call.

[373] It was 11 o 'clock at night.

[374] But 28 years sober, died in 2012.

[375] I think that's so wild.

[376] Yeah.

[377] Okay.

[378] 12 steps speak.

[379] The symptom, not the, right?

[380] Yes.

[381] I'm not taking any inventory of that.

[382] Okay, good.

[383] You don't want to find your part in any of this.

[384] No, it's working right now.

[385] And I just haven't hit my diet.

[386] Sorry, it says bottom.

[387] Which is crazy because the skin is just peeling off the soles of my feet.

[388] Is that where you'll get it?

[389] Well, no, it's because before I was using the steroid -based one, right?

[390] This flare -up, I was like, fuck me. I need a new dermatologist.

[391] I need help.

[392] The same stuff isn't working.

[393] He's a fierce queen.

[394] And he was like, girl, when did you last get this medicine?

[395] And I was like, 2018, isn't it the latest?

[396] And he was like, no. A lot has happened since 2018.

[397] And I was like, oh, really?

[398] I thought it just takes forever.

[399] And he was like, no, girl.

[400] But prior to that, I've been using the steroid.

[401] I was using it wrong the whole time.

[402] And so basically, maybe I'm using it wrong.

[403] No, but what's wrong?

[404] Did it thin all your skin?

[405] They say it thinned your skin.

[406] But then also, it was a thick foam.

[407] And when you would rub it in, I would wash my hands off.

[408] But then if you touch your leg again, I had it on my legs really bad.

[409] That's why I always, when I go to sleep.

[410] You don't have the bottom of my foot on my leg.

[411] And scratching until it's bleeding.

[412] No. It really didn't itch.

[413] It just looked ugly.

[414] It made me feel insecure.

[415] And I usually do not lose my confidence.

[416] But no, it was from putting the soles of my feet on the medication.

[417] I didn't have psoriasis on the soles of my feet or my hands, but just rubbing it in, peels your skin.

[418] So, like, my fingertips of my feet from just constantly being in steroid ointment.

[419] Yes.

[420] And you only use it two weeks at a time.

[421] So then I was two weeks on, and it wouldn't make it go all the way away.

[422] So I still had it.

[423] And I was waiting another couple.

[424] a week to, like, use it again, but then sometimes, let's be honest, I was just fucking...

[425] You just did it.

[426] Yeah, because I'll get rid of this.

[427] But, honey, all of a sudden, I feel, is this giving me, like, grandpa's skin?

[428] So I'm really excited.

[429] It just feels so much better.

[430] I mean, stuff, like, I feel so much better.

[431] If you two are struggling with the biases, like, I am, ask your local dermatologist because there are these new things.

[432] He was saying all these things up the aisle, and they're, like, more targeted.

[433] It used to be more of, like, a sledgehammer, but now it's just more targeted, so it's not so hard on you.

[434] Humara, like, carpet bombed your entire immune system.

[435] Do you get it on your penis and scrotum?

[436] Only my butt crack.

[437] You're yes, yes, buckwrecking.

[438] But not my dick, thank God.

[439] Well, I'm older than you, and guess what?

[440] That's where it migrated to.

[441] No. Do you find that it moves?

[442] Like, mine is moved.

[443] Like, when I get it under control in one spot for my top of all, it comes up somewhere else.

[444] That heat is going to express itself with our Eastern understanding, honey.

[445] It's like, it's going to express itself somewhere.

[446] Also, I didn't mean to weirdly point at you when I did that.

[447] Oh, that's all just thinking, like, I didn't.

[448] Like, I didn't.

[449] Like, I didn't.

[450] What if he pointed at me every time he said Western and then pointed at you.

[451] No, I was like, but you ever make.

[452] I contact with someone while you're saying something and you're like, that was, like, kind of weird.

[453] I didn't feel it until you sat down.

[454] I'm glad that I clarified that though.

[455] Just like trying the awkwardness all the way home.

[456] You know, because I felt it about that I just like really like nailed that triple axle like perfectly.

[457] I'm happy to embrace that part.

[458] Yes, that's a good stereotype that you have some kind of magical.

[459] Well, I would call magical, but it's literally science.

[460] A thousand -year -old tradition of a Vedic healing.

[461] I got to interview Dr. Jessica Hernandez, who I'm obsessed with.

[462] She's an indigenous scientist.

[463] She wrote this book called Fresh Banana Leaves.

[464] It's fucking incredible.

[465] And she became a Western quantitative researcher doctor to prove that her indigenous science is, in fact, science.

[466] Yes, yes.

[467] Because it is science, even if something is like an orally past tradition, just because it doesn't fit in the confines of what we've been taught, doesn't mean that it doesn't have value and doesn't have a really important place.

[468] So it's cool, I think.

[469] Yeah, I think all you're arguing about really in these cases, because I did an Arvetic cleanse to deal with the arthritis.

[470] Did it help?

[471] Yes, entirely.

[472] That's where I started realizing, like, oh, my diet's going to really change this.

[473] I focus on it.

[474] But I think really it's like they may explain the mechanism in a way that Western science doesn't agree with.

[475] The actual mechanism of what's happening in your body, but the results are the same.

[476] I also feel like non -binary bad bitch.

[477] I'm just like a both and.

[478] Exactly.

[479] No reason to pick.

[480] Cherry pick, whatever is working.

[481] Okay.

[482] So back to recovery.

[483] Queer Eye.

[484] Oh, queer eye.

[485] And we'll get to recovery.

[486] No, I love that.

[487] Queer Eye, I went and ordered the same green tinted moisturizer.

[488] you suggested.

[489] And then I got the beard oil.

[490] And then my wife was making fun of me in a very joyful way.

[491] Like, look at this cis poster boy for hetro everything.

[492] He saw this episode.

[493] He went and bought all these products, right?

[494] And then she tagged you and did a post.

[495] And then all of a sudden, I was following you.

[496] And then I want to say we've had some exchanges.

[497] I smashed that followback button so fucking hard.

[498] But you know, it's just interesting going through an experience where people who you've loved and watched and looked up to and just thought we're amazing.

[499] It's also funny when you're older than people who you've looked up to.

[500] And then they're like, wait, I'm like so much younger than you.

[501] Why are you talking to me like that?

[502] I'll be like asking Gigi Hadee for advice.

[503] And she's like, girl, I need to fucking ask you shit.

[504] Can I just point out you guys were born in the same year, 87?

[505] Oh, what a good year.

[506] Winter birthday.

[507] Today's her actual birthday.

[508] Yesterday was my husband's birthday.

[509] And today is his mom's birthday.

[510] Today is everyone's mom's birthday.

[511] It's a really popular birthday.

[512] This is the hottest week in all of birthdays is the late August.

[513] It's people going up to Christmas.

[514] And they're like, we want a family.

[515] We're going to fuck.

[516] Do you want a cute fact about us?

[517] You pointed to Mark just for the listener.

[518] My husband and I. My mom's birthday is the day after mine.

[519] And Mark's mom's birthday is the day after his.

[520] Oh, that's sweet.

[521] That's sad.

[522] Like one day apart from our mommy, which is interesting.

[523] That's perfectly time because I do want to walk through your life a little bit.

[524] Okay, let's do it.

[525] And what I would imagine, having never met your mother, although she was the vice president of this family media company.

[526] Yeah.

[527] She had a lot of role.

[528] before that, though.

[529] As family business people generally do, right, you end up doing everything at the place?

[530] Yes.

[531] So you're from Southern Illinois.

[532] Technically West Central, but yes.

[533] Think about how Illinois in like the west side of the state, are you into geography?

[534] Incredibly, and I've driven across the country a hundred times.

[535] If you're looking at Illinois, you know, look at me. So the west is, I need to close my eyes.

[536] I can't look at you.

[537] It's like, think about like how on the west side it bevels out.

[538] There's like a pregnant belly, if you will.

[539] So my hometown is right where the belly button would be of the pregnant ladies.

[540] So we're actually the very furthest bit west in Illinois that you can be.

[541] Okay.

[542] We're like all the way west.

[543] We are actually so far west that we are actually west of St. Louis.

[544] Oh, whoa.

[545] Which is in Missouri.

[546] That's unexpected.

[547] Exactly.

[548] So we really are right on the Mississippi River.

[549] We're right across from Hannibal, Missouri, which is Mark Twain, Huckleberry Finn.

[550] I lovingly refer to it as the armpit of America.

[551] So it's a pregnant lady profile.

[552] Exactly.

[553] She's profile.

[554] She's absolutely profile.

[555] Is facing the belly button is facing California.

[556] No, yeah.

[557] Yes, exactly.

[558] I'm so upset.

[559] with our knowledge.

[560] Should we just go through all the states and pretend like we're from each one for the rest of the podcast?

[561] And if you were explaining to someone where you were from a specific part of the state, I just think that'd be like really fun.

[562] Or is that a different podcast.

[563] Yeah.

[564] I'm from the easiest state to do that too, which is the mitten of Michigan.

[565] And of course, everyone from Michigan will point exactly to their hand to tell you where they live.

[566] Whereas the Upper Peninsula.

[567] Thirty -five people live there.

[568] So no one's ever pointing.

[569] My family had a cabin in this lake in the Upper Peninsula.

[570] And we still go up there.

[571] And this 18 or 1700s forever ago, my family went there.

[572] And there's this creepy letter because my family's really into genealogy.

[573] This lady named Lucy was so depressed.

[574] And she lived in the upper peninsula of Michigan.

[575] And she's like my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, auntie.

[576] And she fucking fell down the stairs and died.

[577] And I'm pretty sure that she was so missing Ireland.

[578] I think she fucking hurled herself down the goddamn stairs.

[579] That's what I think.

[580] You do?

[581] Yeah.

[582] Do you know if it was in the wintertime?

[583] Because up there, you have very minimal like that far north.

[584] I only went once in the winter there.

[585] I always went in the summer.

[586] I jumped off this stair into what I thought was a foot of snow and the snow was above my head.

[587] I was like 11.

[588] No, I got really scared for a minute.

[589] As my mom was like, don't.

[590] And I was like, they all had to dig me out as a whole thing.

[591] My grandpa actually backhanded me in the face after that.

[592] I would have punched a kid in the face for scaring me that bad too.

[593] I turned a really peaceful, idyllic moment into a nightmare for everyone.

[594] It's not right.

[595] But you can understand it in their mind.

[596] It's a tradeoff.

[597] It's like, well, I'm going to hurt them this way so they don't hurt themselves the forever way.

[598] Yes.

[599] Okay, but back to Mom.

[600] She was, I'm going to imagine a beast.

[601] Really, really passionate about her work.

[602] I love that about her.

[603] And she's amazing.

[604] And you lived in this small, what's the population?

[605] 40 ,000?

[606] Like 36 ,000 or something.

[607] Oh, my God.

[608] Nearly the same as Monica's Duluth.

[609] Yeah, we just did this earlier today where we were finding our hometown population.

[610] And I overestimated mine by 2x.

[611] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[612] I thought it was 10 ,000, it was 5 ,000.

[613] Oh.

[614] Yeah.

[615] It's right where the suburbs turn into hillbilly land in farmland.

[616] Michigan's having such a renaissance.

[617] You think so?

[618] Why?

[619] That's lovely.

[620] Gretchen Whitmer fucking flip the Senate.

[621] For sure.

[622] That's true.

[623] Honey, like marijuana legalization.

[624] We are getting in there.

[625] We are enshrining abortion rights in the fucking state constitute.

[626] They're doing it.

[627] I love that fucking Gretchen, honey.

[628] I adore her as well.

[629] I think she could be a real viable.

[630] Guys, I just saw a clip of Biden yesterday.

[631] He didn't trip ditty or something.

[632] It's way worse.

[633] No. He is addressing the victims of the Maui fire and he is comparing a small kitchen fire he and his wife had in their home to this devastating and he's all over the map.

[634] I'm a Democrat.

[635] The fake news media.

[636] But what if it was taken out of context?

[637] What if there is a video from right before that video where he's like, look, I'm about to get fucking crazy right now with this comparison?

[638] The only context that could have possibly explained this would be seconds before he walked out, they were like, have this 13 ounces of mushroom tea and go address which we like to call snake oil in our house because you think it's going to be all fun in games until yes until you meet God and she isn't exactly what you're expecting the American public will be able to understand the nuance here's what I refuse to do for any political stance I have I'm not going to be dishonest this is insane that this is our best option it's insane you can't force me to be untruthful because I want legalized abortion.

[639] I don't make those deals.

[640] That's the kind of deals you make with fucked up parents.

[641] Like, I'm going to lie because I love you.

[642] I'm going to join this lie to show my loyalty to you.

[643] That's fucking dysfunctional.

[644] This is not the best option for us.

[645] And it's so embarrassing.

[646] I'm not willing to lie about that.

[647] But it is the best option between the two options.

[648] It's the lesser of bad options you could argue.

[649] But fuck that.

[650] Like on our side of the street, we got to push forward the person.

[651] But you know what I think is really different about that, though?

[652] It's actually an interesting conversation to have because I love these.

[653] fucking chats, having lived in Texas for the last three years, it becomes very different.

[654] And so I do have a thing with people who live in liberal states.

[655] It's a lot easier for you to say that in a state where your health care isn't getting came for.

[656] Your kids can fucking be themselves.

[657] Department of Child and Family Services isn't investigating you if you have a fucking non -binary kid.

[658] And the abortion thing, Queen, I literally live in a state where women cannot, if they are getting these shit kicked out of them.

[659] Abuse of really, relationship, can't fucking afford it.

[660] Their uncle rapes them.

[661] You can't fucking get in a fucking, like, I guess before six weeks, but I mean, who fucking knows about six weeks?

[662] No one knows.

[663] I don't fucking know anything about six fucking weeks.

[664] To me, I will suck Joe Biden's dick to prevent.

[665] But let's be clear.

[666] As someone who I've heard now in all these interviews I watch hates any time you propose something as binary, you can't paint a picture where I have to lie about it.

[667] I can still vote for him.

[668] Absolutely.

[669] I will still vote Democratic, but I don't have to lie and say, I think this is anywhere close to the best person we have as an option to run the country.

[670] I'll still not vote for Trump over it.

[671] And I think this is what makes me an mayor I can is that I have so much love and compassion for even Trump's supporters.

[672] I do too.

[673] But because of the lack of access to education, the access to responsible journalism to actually make informed decisions, he is the fucking best choice we have.

[674] Not for you personally and not for me personally.

[675] Because we have brains.

[676] And those people also have brains.

[677] I don't love how you're framing it right now, which is if the right was educated, they would pick our side.

[678] I reject that.

[679] They are conservative.

[680] They don't like how quickly the country's changing.

[681] I understand that.

[682] I can sympathize with that.

[683] They have different fears than we do.

[684] It's not because they're dumb or uneducated.

[685] They have a difference of opinion.

[686] No, I think that misinformation and disinformation plays a huge role in that, especially when it comes to gender affirming care and access to abortion.

[687] And misinformation on the left is like...

[688] COVID.

[689] You can start with COVID.

[690] The most incredibly comprehensive study that looks at all of the journalism from the left -leaning papers during COVID reporting, the information as it rises, all over the rest of the world, it's about 50 -50.

[691] There's some good news or some bad news.

[692] New York Times, 78 % bad news.

[693] That's the left.

[694] The New York Times isn't a left -leaning...

[695] It absolutely is.

[696] They're anti -trans.

[697] They platform multiple anti -trans people.

[698] And if we want to get my phone out, I can look it up.

[699] so that I'm not misspeaking, to be against trans liberation and queer liberation in the year of our Lord and Savior, 2023, makes you absolutely not progressive left -leaning.

[700] Let's take one second.

[701] So it's a big spectrum.

[702] On the very far right, let's say you would say, my support of trans folks would include them competing in the Olympics.

[703] That's the far end of the spectrum.

[704] On the very far other end of the spectrum, you have people saying they're not entitled to these rights.

[705] they shouldn't be allowed to transition.

[706] There's this huge spectrum.

[707] I don't think that the entire news organization is no longer left leaning because they fall off on one area of this spectrum.

[708] How you do anything is how you do everything.

[709] So if you're willing to take that risk of platforming someone who is literally in your journalistic institution, I mean, I guess it's in an opinion column, but still...

[710] Is this the one article that was in support of J .K. Rowling?

[711] Is that what you're referencing?

[712] There's like that one and then there's several other ones, but especially around gender.

[713] affirming care, but also even J .K. Rowling, what she retweets as far as being in support of not trans inclusion in sports and non -trans inclusion in bathrooms and stuff, have really harmful, real misinformation.

[714] I interviewed the trans man who was paralyzed playing rugby that she was tweeting about, and she was saying that this man who weighs like this much is going to hurt all these women.

[715] And actually, this is a trans man who is paralyzed by a cis -hete woman.

[716] But hold on.

[717] A trans man would be competing against other men.

[718] He was competing with women because he was a woman.

[719] He was assigned female at birth.

[720] He was transitioning.

[721] As he was going through his transition, that was his last game.

[722] And he was transitioning to play with men after that.

[723] He hadn't taken hormones, but he was going to start hormones.

[724] He was not going to play with the women anymore.

[725] He was starting playing with the men.

[726] His name is Verity Smith.

[727] And I want to make sure I didn't mess that up.

[728] But I'm pretty sure that was the order and how that happened.

[729] But he ended up becoming paralyzed from the waist down in that last game.

[730] His face was used in a lot of articles that were saying, this guy wants to play with women.

[731] He wanted to play with men.

[732] Right, right, right.

[733] You know, or examples of studies where like biological men will be compared to biological women, and then that will be the basis for why trans women can't play sports, where it doesn't take into account any of the studies on what happens to trans women's bodies when they achieve and maintain certain hormonal levels, when you've been on estrogen for more than one, two, three, four years.

[734] I think what a lot of people and what that article in The Times was pointing out is anytime you have any questions of amusement or any pushback, I think to say that someone can't question without threatening to take someone's rights away to explore these things.

[735] Some people are very uncomfortable about teenagers transitioning.

[736] They're challenging that.

[737] How do we know that the person's not going to change your mind?

[738] Then there's another counter -on argument.

[739] Well, if they kill themselves, then that's really fucking permanent.

[740] That's a good counter -argument.

[741] This whole notion that to be critical or to question, you're seeing the whiplash reaction to that.

[742] That's what this fucking Texas shit's about.

[743] Because to even question it makes you an enemy.

[744] I don't think that's the way forward.

[745] Rebuttal.

[746] I feel like I'm talking to my dad.

[747] Okay.

[748] So you've practiced.

[749] Yeah.

[750] Which is good.

[751] Look, when JK Rowling in her platform retweets articles that say that if a 20 stone man plays rugby against a 10 stone woman, is she not going to be hurt?

[752] That's dangerous.

[753] We shouldn't have trans women playing sports because it's going to be too dangerous for women.

[754] There is so many things to unpack here about JK Rowling, her platform, and then also just the data that we're pulling.

[755] this hypothetical situation from.

[756] So, sports are inherently dangerous.

[757] When you're playing women's sports, men's sports, you can break your leg, you can break your fucking ankle.

[758] What I think about the Paris figure skating competition from 2002, the lady hit her head impaled by her skating partner and then had a traumatic brain injury and then it was like skating a few years later.

[759] They were rushing.

[760] Yeah, yeah.

[761] Sports are inherently dangerous.

[762] Sports are also inherently extremely unfair.

[763] You can't really talk about fairness in sport if you don't talk about economics.

[764] So let's talk about fairness in sport.

[765] If you come from a family who's living in poverty, if you come from a geographic place where there's no figure skating, there's no pools, there's no tennis court, there's no golf course, there's no pickleball, whatever, there's no basketball team.

[766] Is that fair when we talk about sport and people's ability to participate in those sports if their parents don't have money?

[767] So economics, geography, that's a really big deal in sport.

[768] Now we can talk about biology.

[769] Michael Phelps, cis -hap man, greatest swimmer of all times.

[770] He also has these double -jointed ankles.

[771] He also has webbing in his toes that comes up farther than other peoples.

[772] He has biological advantages.

[773] He has a wingspan that's like seven feet wide.

[774] He's biologically a fucking human torpedo.

[775] So his biological advantages are celebrated and lauded and are amazing.

[776] Now let's take a sprinter like Castor Semenya, who was the 2012, I think 1 ,500 and 800 -meter Olympic gold medalist, and as well, 2016.

[777] She was born with an intersex variation, which there are like six really well -known ones.

[778] And a lot of times they affect more people from the global south, more women from the global south.

[779] So all of her hormone levels were within the acceptable ranges.

[780] She was not born assigned male at birth.

[781] You know, she has an intersex trait.

[782] So even biologically, gender is not fixed in two binaries.

[783] It's on a spectrum.

[784] And most people reside in one of the two, male and female.

[785] That is true.

[786] But there are, according to Anne Foster Sterling's research, there's two.

[787] percent of people.

[788] Now, transphobes will say that's an overblown number, and it's actually more like 0 .02%.

[789] As someone who has a degree in anthropology, I also think that's very, very high.

[790] I know the incident rating of Kleinfelters.

[791] I know the incident rating of all these.

[792] And they're very well.

[793] Kleinfelters is X, X, X, Y. Okay.

[794] So there's six.

[795] Yeah, there are.

[796] But we don't test all babies for chromosomal abnormalities.

[797] And when you look at the levels of infertility and people throughout history and currently, who is to say and what's to say short of chromosonally testing every single baby that's born?

[798] Who's to say that it's not more common?

[799] But let's say it is 0 .2%.

[800] 330 million people live in the United States.

[801] So 10 % of 330 million is 33 million people.

[802] So 5 % of 33 million is what, 18?

[803] 5 % of 33 million would be 6 million.

[804] Okay, so I'm basically just trying to get to like what is 0 .2%.

[805] Right.

[806] Point 2 % would be take off 100, so 300 million would be 1 million, then divided by 5.

[807] So that's 200 ,000 people.

[808] 200 ,000 people in the United States.

[809] States and their families and their friends and their loved ones, what bathrooms do they use?

[810] Do they get to play sports?

[811] Do they get to be included?

[812] And also, when we're talking about transition, intersex babies, Alicia Rothweigel has an amazing book coming out.

[813] It's called Inverse Cowgirl.

[814] I had her on my podcast.

[815] I love her.

[816] She's an incredible intersex activist out of Texas who's been having these conversations for a lot longer than this has been a hot button cultural topic.

[817] But she was born with complete androgen sensitivity, which is an intersex variation.

[818] She was born with an external vagina and internal testes.

[819] When she was born, the doctors literally told her parents it's easier to dig a hole than build a pole.

[820] So they were like, you got to make your little girl a girl.

[821] We got to do this gender confirming surgery.

[822] She will have to wear Exander for the rest of her life, which is something so she could potentially have intercourse someday.

[823] So from the time she was like a little girl wearing expanders, having to be on estrogen, from the time she was like seven years old so that she could have like a normal puberty.

[824] Actually, I don't know seven, but from a very young age.

[825] So for intersex people, surgeries encouraged to enforce this idea of a gender binary.

[826] And what biologists will tell you is that it is not exactly one and two.

[827] That's an oversimplification of biology.

[828] Even if you look at the very limited number of trans people who have been allowed to play around elite sport or elite competition, if you take like Leah Thomas, for instance, none of her numbers were record setting.

[829] None of her height, weight measurements were out of portion in all of the pictures in the podium where they were like, look at how much bigger she is.

[830] If you take her and look at an Olympic level, she wasn't outside of the realm of possibility for someone who is assigned female at birth.

[831] Also in the United States, the last thing I think I saw was 1 .7 million people identify as trans, like adults over the age of 18 in the United States.

[832] And there's 330 million people.

[833] There's just so many things that are so much more important and we're over here being like, well, there's legitimate concerns that people have with what 1 .7%.

[834] And so all I'm saying is what we know about misinformation and disinformation is when you have an outsized reaction to something, there's a good chance that you're being exposed to misinformation and disinformation.

[835] And a lot of the rhetoric around anti -trans inclusion and just the anti -trans backlash does have a lot of misinformation and disinformation in it.

[836] When you look at historically the way that marginalized communities have been scapecoded in very much a similar fashion, when have we ended up better?

[837] I think if you aren't personally impacted by an issue for people who are, it just is a bit exhausting.

[838] Yeah.

[839] Stay tuned for more.

[840] expert if you dare What's up guys This your girl Kiki and my podcast is back With a new season and let me tell you It's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest Okay every episode I bring on a friend And I don't mean just friends I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox The list goes on So follow, watch and listen to baby This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app Or wherever you get your podcast We've all been there.

[841] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[842] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[843] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[844] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated.

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[846] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

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[850] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[851] There's a couple things I just want to point out.

[852] And the issue of it not being fair or lack of fairness, your explanation is, well, there's other things that are unfair.

[853] I would say, then let's fix those things that are unfair.

[854] Let's fix the socioeconomic problem that prevents certain people from having access to these things.

[855] Do I wish that the trans woman athlete had access and could play and follow her dreams?

[856] I do.

[857] Will I elevate her rights over women?

[858] We're pretending that women aren't the ultimate marginalized class throughout history.

[859] people who have written cervix have her and she goes no no no there's a name for us you can't steal my identity to help your cause you can't take away the defining characteristic that allows me to relate to all these other women who have been oppressed now there's hate mongers there's people that fucking don't like trans people we're not talking about people with kleinfelters we're not talking about people with chromosome what people are questioning which is could the captain of the water polo team that was male for 19 years next month, or in one year, compete against girls and women.

[860] Would that be fair to girls and women?

[861] That's a fair question.

[862] Sure.

[863] I appreciate what you said.

[864] There is a few things.

[865] Little girls who want to just be able to, like, join a dance team with their girlfriends in Iowa, or be able to play golf or figure skate.

[866] Without cheerleading, I probably would have killed myself in high school.

[867] And I sometimes really wrestle with my gender identity.

[868] I'm not sure that I am not.

[869] And there's been 500 bills this year alone in the United States that target trans kids, whether that's gender affirming care, whether that's bathrooms, whether that's sports.

[870] There isn't legitimate questioning going on.

[871] There is like a public targeted onslaught towards queer people.

[872] There are many people targeting queer people.

[873] Don't want them to have rights.

[874] I agree with you.

[875] I don't have those opinions.

[876] So then for me to sit here and watch Zach Shepard Parrott a lot of the same things.

[877] No, one of the issues.

[878] But also, I don't know how often it's happening.

[879] In the state of Iowa, there was zero trans athletes.

[880] And actually, I think in many of the states where trans athletes have been banned all the way through high school, there have been no trans athletes.

[881] It's a boogeyman to make us feel that our girls are being attacked, that their things are being taken away.

[882] With fairness and sport, when you look at what is awarded in advertising sports deals just to men and women on the whole, men get so.

[883] so much more money, so much more coverage, so much more accolades, so much more attention, so much better training opportunities.

[884] That's a way bigger threat to women's sports.

[885] And really what we're talking about here, the whole trans debate can really be boiled down to this.

[886] I think, at least for one faction of it.

[887] We're coming from a place of scarcity and not from a place of abundance.

[888] There is enough for everyone.

[889] We've been told by colonialism, by white supremacy, by the patriarchy, that there's not enough for everyone and that there is always a boogeyman.

[890] In the 50s, communism.

[891] In the 60s, it was fucking hippies.

[892] In the 70s and 80s, it was like Russians in the Cold War.

[893] The 90s was like a little bit Middle Eastern and then 2000s with definitely so much Islamophobia.

[894] And now we are really looking at queer people.

[895] And it does hurt my heart to see people who I respect taking up for positions.

[896] But really good.

[897] The thing that I'm bummed about right now is that if you wanted to lay out your points where you'd say this would make you supportive of the movement and you laid out 10.

[898] If I'm along for nine of them and not the 10th, You file me in this enemy category.

[899] I'm not filing you in an enemy category.

[900] Have whatever beliefs you want.

[901] Go for it.

[902] I'm just saying that it is disappointing when you realize the amount of people they think they're really fighting for something.

[903] A lot of people have a lot of concerns about kids, young people, making any sort of transition, anything.

[904] Whether that's a hormone blocker, whether that's a haircut, whether that's a pronoun change, whether that's a name change, whatever.

[905] But there's a lot of vitriol around hormone blockers.

[906] Right now, there's a lot of legislating That's what all of these anti -gender affirming care bills are that are like in Nebraska, Texas, Arkansas, Florida, North Dakota, South Dakota, they limit anyone's ability to access gender affirming care, which can be hormone blockers.

[907] So the International Skating Federation, who talks about sports and also, you know, even your argument earlier with trans inclusion in sports, is if you've lived as a man for 38 years and you've gone through a puberty of a biological male, no amount of estrogen is ever going to allow you to be able to fairly compete with women.

[908] First of all, 38 -year -olds aren't going to the Olympics to compete with 23 -year -olds and transition at 38 and then go try to make the Olympics.

[909] If it was, it'd be someone who's like a little bit younger who's still in their prime and whatever, but let me finish my point.

[910] On the one, it's like people are like, well, if you've gone through a puberty, then you definitely are never going to be able to compete with women because that's not fair.

[911] If you've been through an irreversal biological thing, well, you can't play sports because that wouldn't be fair.

[912] But then on the other hand, we have all these other people that are saying, well, even if you know you're trans, and even if you've been living as a little girl or a little boy and your family supports you and your mom and dad say that's okay and the doctors are agreeing with you and you didn't get on hormone blockers on the first time someone saw you've been having therapy for years, you've had an endocrinologist, you have a whole team of experts who are like, yes, this kid is fucking trans we need to get them on hormone blockers.

[913] Yeah, yeah.

[914] That little girl loves to run.

[915] That little girl loves to do figure skating.

[916] Maybe she's into sports.

[917] Yeah.

[918] She's been on hormone blockers forever.

[919] Well, in these states, she can't do that anymore.

[920] So like in Iowa, for instance, literally Kim Reynolds was like, if your kid is on hormone blockers or on hormones, either you've got to des transition or you've got to move because it's child abuse now.

[921] So get the fuck out of here.

[922] Oh, wow.

[923] That's what they said in Iowa.

[924] That passed?

[925] Oh, yeah.

[926] Oh, wow.

[927] And in Texas, they're investigating families of trans kids for child abuse.

[928] And I protest at the Capitol quite a bit.

[929] So I've had a lot of parents come and tell me like, you know, if these things pass, we have to move.

[930] Those things are happening.

[931] I've had several trans friends, one of whom was held down by police at the Austin State Capitol who has since moved to San Diego because they are so fearful to live in Austin.

[932] Those are people who I know, like, in my personal life.

[933] I'm not reading about it.

[934] like I live it because I live there.

[935] So do you see what I'm saying?

[936] If a little kid is trans and they want to play any fucking sport.

[937] Now, I also don't think that all sports are the same.

[938] Yeah.

[939] I agree.

[940] I don't think that tackle football is the same as figure skating.

[941] And I also think for certain sports like figure skating, being a man isn't really help, like anything that makes you bulkier, makes you spin less fast, you know, balance beam, for instance.

[942] Yeah, yeah, gymnasts.

[943] There are certain things that, well, floor routine, that's like a little more power.

[944] But the point is, there is a gigantic spectrum.

[945] of ability within women and men.

[946] Yeah, yeah, of course.

[947] And I once had someone say, if trans women were allowed to transition, we would have never had Serena Williams because the 10 ,000 best man could have transitioned and beat Serena Williams.

[948] I just like, think, how little do we think of women's athletes?

[949] I don't think that the 10 ,000 -ranked male tennis player could beat Serena Williams a week after she had a baby, which I think is just right now.

[950] So I just think that there's a lot of patriarchy, there's a lot of trans misogy, but back to trans people in sports.

[951] For adults, this door has already been slammed shut.

[952] The NCAA has completely changed your rules.

[953] There never will be another Leah Thomas.

[954] You have to, like, have never played on a sport as a man. You have to have been on hormones for three years.

[955] You've got to sit out your first year, so there'll never be another Leah Thomas in the NCAA.

[956] Recently, I think the swimming union and some other people who have included trans women in their ability to play for the last two decades have rescinded all of that.

[957] And how many trans people can we name that were major swimmers in the Olympics?

[958] Not one.

[959] Trans women were able to play tennis for the last 20 years.

[960] Can we think of one elite trans tennis player?

[961] I can't.

[962] Conservatives do need a boogeyman right now.

[963] They need a scapecoat.

[964] Well, I definitely think a lot of people who are anti -trans are using this as a Trojan horse.

[965] Oh, absolutely.

[966] Thousand percent.

[967] If you and I can't have a conversation about it, who I think are both well -intentioned.

[968] Well, we are, but we have to be careful.

[969] I'm a non -binary fucking trans person.

[970] You know, when I talk to my dad or people who say similar things, it's hard to be cool through that.

[971] Right.

[972] I think it is exhausting when you just have to constantly be the person to, I mean, we've talked about this a bunch.

[973] There's just a threshold of like, I just can't do it anymore, which I totally understand.

[974] And it's also just little kids want to play tennis or they want to play basketball or they want to play whatever.

[975] So can the kid play if they get on hormone blockers so they don't go through puberty?

[976] Because all of those studies really show that when kids go through hormone blockers, they don't grow.

[977] They don't develop the same ways.

[978] Like that seems like it would make it on a more even playing field.

[979] It's like two opposing things are happening.

[980] So you can't do hormone blockers, but then you can't play sports.

[981] And less you've done harm or more.

[982] And so all of these things are happening in different governing bodies in state legislatures and governing bodies for athletics.

[983] Should someone's rights be held over someone else's rights?

[984] No, but women aren't not being allowed to play.

[985] Trans women are not being allowed to play.

[986] Little kids don't get to join a non -competitive dance team.

[987] The punishment is so far outweighing the reality.

[988] And I just think that that is a problem.

[989] In L .A., like you said, we're in a major.

[990] major bubble here.

[991] Trans people can do sports if they're kids.

[992] We're not as aware of what's going on outside.

[993] I'm not calling you a transphobic.

[994] You cannot be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse transmasogyny and espouse transphobic ideologies or beliefs and not be transphobic.

[995] Just like how I have to challenge biases about white privilege and make sure that I'm not speaking over someone who is a person of color or like a black person if we're talking about racism or police brutality.

[996] I just get a lot of little kids who don't get allowed to like join groups.

[997] I I was really bullied for my gender expression as a little kid.

[998] Yeah.

[999] And there's a lot of little kids who aren't going to go be Olympic gold medalists.

[1000] They don't want to fucking go to the Olympics.

[1001] That's most kids.

[1002] 99 % of kids who want to play sports, like aren't trying to go to the Olympics.

[1003] Right.

[1004] Honestly, I just, I wanted to come, like, chat about my podcast.

[1005] Like, other shows going to be like, I'm going to do that.

[1006] We're going to do that.

[1007] I did not intend at all to get into a debate with you about this.

[1008] I didn't want that at all.

[1009] I adore you.

[1010] I think you're hysterical and talented and I love that you're an activist.

[1011] I could just, like, cry because I'm, like, so tired of having.

[1012] to, like, fight for little kids because they just want to be included.

[1013] I wish that people were as passionate about little kids being able to, like, be included or grow up as they were about fictitious women's fairness in sports.

[1014] I have to tell you, I am very tired.

[1015] And I'm really sorry.

[1016] But I would say it is an interesting schism within Democrats right now because a centrist Democrat, I mean, I once got canceled on Twitter for saying that all Republicans aren't racist.

[1017] Aren't?

[1018] Yes.

[1019] I once got canceled by progressives for saying all Republicans aren't racist.

[1020] But I have to say that relocating to a conservative state and doing a lot of work on this, I 100 % recant that because you can have racist beliefs and not know you're racist.

[1021] Just like you can have transphobic beliefs and not realize that you have transphobic beliefs.

[1022] That doesn't mean you're a bad person.

[1023] And actually I wrote a whole chapter about this.

[1024] In my second book, Love That Story, which is called, Sorry, Karen, White Privilege Looks Really Bad on You, where I am reckoning with my love for my family.

[1025] family and how proud I am of them, but also realizing that part of how they became so successful in broadcasting is because there was a literal whole group of people that weren't allowed to seat at the table.

[1026] But you can be proud of something and be like, that was wrong.

[1027] Yeah, I love a ton of flawed people.

[1028] But I do just think there's a lot of casual questioning of things where it's like, I'm not, because the result is not trans kids getting to play sports or not, even though that is a result.

[1029] It's also health care.

[1030] It's also gender -based violence.

[1031] It's also just out and out violence.

[1032] It's a really difficult time right now.

[1033] I'm sure my friend Alope could do like a synopsis on this for explaining academically why this was so fucking Trigger City.

[1034] I'm sorry it was Trigger City.

[1035] I do think we fell into it honestly talking about whether or not the New York Times was liberal or now.

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] Again, sincerely, I did not want you to come in here and then challenge your position on any of these things.

[1038] No, no, I understand.

[1039] It's kind of one of those things, like, whenever you have one of those, it doesn't even, like, really matter.

[1040] You're just like, I'm so emotionally exhausted.

[1041] I'm sure you're disappointed in me. I'm not disappointed in you.

[1042] I'm just, like, emotionally exhausted from, like, having people to do this.

[1043] Defend everything.

[1044] Your identity, kids, all of it.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] But also, I do think, and I know it's exhausting and it sucks so much to have to be the person where it's resting on your shoulders.

[1047] And I've done it for race stuff.

[1048] I do find it helpful for people.

[1049] Well, like Brunee Brown, who I know you love, she says it's not on black folks to have to set the table for this.

[1050] For racism.

[1051] And I think you're.

[1052] right to feel like it's not on my shoulders to set the table for you.

[1053] But there really is so much misinformation.

[1054] There's one thing I could leave.

[1055] Little kids are not getting gender reassignment surgery.

[1056] Three year olds are not going and getting hysterectomies.

[1057] We're not getting fucking breast implants.

[1058] No, there's a moral panic just like there was a satanic moral panic and there was a child molesting moral panic.

[1059] And yes, now we're in a trans moral panic.

[1060] And now because of the sports aspect of that, and that's why I'm so triggered by it because without cheerleading and gymnastics, I would not have made it.

[1061] Now, obviously, I didn't even think it was an option for me to try out for cheer as a trans girl.

[1062] But if I had an affirming family and hadn't been born in 1987, I honestly still struggle with this.

[1063] It's something I talk about my husband with, like, I also like didn't mean to talk about this now, but I still struggle with my gender expression.

[1064] I don't know that I don't live like this because I'm scared of the vitriol that trans people face every day.

[1065] And so like, for people they're like, you're so authentic and you're so brave.

[1066] I'm not.

[1067] Well, you are.

[1068] Well, I am and I'm I think you are.

[1069] Can I tell you that?

[1070] I think the way you live your life is much more brave than someone doing a backflip on a motorcycle.

[1071] That's nice.

[1072] Truly.

[1073] Because we're scared of people in the Olympics, now kid, marginal, terrible athletes who just want to learn about communication, team building, how to work together, they don't get that opportunity.

[1074] And also when you look at the rates of homelessness, suicide, lack of employment.

[1075] And I mean, suicide is something we talk about a lot.

[1076] But when you really look at employment, a life opportunity, when you've been getting made fun of, not a part of the group, you don't get the social skills that everyone else gets, that has social capital impact for the rest of your life, knowing how to, like, work a room, knowing how to talk to someone, knowing how to put someone at ease, knowing how to take direction, knowing how to be part of a team.

[1077] Sports have real -world implications for, like, just the people who suck at them, too, who are not a threat to the podium.

[1078] I agree.

[1079] The vast, vast majority of you play sports.

[1080] But that's why I'm crying, because those are the kids who are paying the price for this, and that is heartbreaking, which in program, false evidence appearing real.

[1081] Fear acronym.

[1082] Yeah, I love a good fear acronym.

[1083] Yeah, I love a good orderly direction.

[1084] What's that?

[1085] What's that one?

[1086] God.

[1087] Good.

[1088] Oh, yeah.

[1089] in the interaction.

[1090] But no, it's like, I think that you can have conversations, and I don't think everyone gets paid in a transphobic bucket, but I also think that the pervasiveness of transphobia and the depths to which transphobia has seeped into, even left -leaning institutions, which, you know, compared to Breitbart or Fox, is New York Times left -leaning?

[1091] Absolutely it is.

[1092] But as I've learned more about the history of scapegoating racism, transphobia, homophobia in the United States, and how the government and the press have worked really hand -in -hand to proliferate a lot of those ideas, I'm citing, like, the lavender scare here especially.

[1093] Well, and there's the Martin Luther King quote, which is really salient from your point of view, which is like, beware of the white liberal.

[1094] Yeah.

[1095] Who will tell you that the timetable you're on is plenty fast enough.

[1096] Yeah.

[1097] I think what we try to do here is question and get a little deeper into the nitty gritty of the debate.

[1098] And I'm sure it's completely exhausting.

[1099] And I did not intend for your time here to be that.

[1100] I didn't.

[1101] No, it's fine.

[1102] But also, sorry.

[1103] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1104] It breaks my heart to think I upset you.

[1105] I didn't want to.

[1106] Look, you didn't upset me. I just...

[1107] I get it.

[1108] Yeah, it is what it is.

[1109] Yeah, I get it.

[1110] Do you know you guys have this cheerleading thing in common?

[1111] Yeah, we do.

[1112] Monica's a two -time state champ.

[1113] Oh, my God.

[1114] Save my life, too.

[1115] From California?

[1116] No, Georgia.

[1117] But still a very aggressive.

[1118] Very aggressive.

[1119] Very strong cheer community in Georgia.

[1120] Thank you.

[1121] High Flyer.

[1122] Come on.

[1123] Home of Angel Rice, major power tumbler, and also major cheerleader.

[1124] We love Angel Rice.

[1125] Oh, oh, Angel.

[1126] She was on the U .S. power tumbling team.

[1127] She was, like, on top guns or whatever.

[1128] She was a major, like, competitive cheer queen.

[1129] Well, I wasn't an all -star cheerleader.

[1130] It was just high school competition.

[1131] But we did win state twice.

[1132] Good for you.

[1133] That's hard.

[1134] Thank you.

[1135] Yes.

[1136] The routine is very impressive.

[1137] I've watched it.

[1138] Yeah, it's on YouTube.

[1139] Oh, my God.

[1140] I need to see the link yesterday.

[1141] Yeah, we'll send you the link.

[1142] The pressure of having won and returning as champions.

[1143] Come on back in.

[1144] It wasn't a fluke.

[1145] This will be triggering because we just talked about the Olympics, but I'm going to try to do the Olympics in another thing because when I was reading about you, I put something together that I'm curious if that's similar.

[1146] So Monica's obsessed with the Olympics too all growing up, gymnastics, just like you, right?

[1147] 96 Olympics.

[1148] Oh my God, I'm so triggered.

[1149] I love the Magnificent 7th so much.

[1150] I love them so much.

[1151] I did to get to interview Shannon Miller on the pod.

[1152] Oh, my God.

[1153] What?

[1154] I did.

[1155] And then she unfollowed me on Instagram.

[1156] It's totally fine.

[1157] Yeah, she did.

[1158] She unfollowed the fuck out of me. I don't know why.

[1159] But she does her handstands on her thumb.

[1160] No, I know.

[1161] On the tips.

[1162] We did that together.

[1163] I saw it in real life and I was just like, wow, the ergonomics of your fingers are...

[1164] She can still do it?

[1165] Yeah, the handstand.

[1166] Yeah.

[1167] It was in the lobby of my old podcast network.

[1168] Did the damn thing.

[1169] Full pirouette, too, on our fucking fingertips.

[1170] Oh, my God.

[1171] She's hardcore.

[1172] Nerves of steel.

[1173] Now, this actually just came up on my YouTube shorts.

[1174] I was watching the beam final for 2000, 2004, 2008, and 12 on the plane this morning.

[1175] So I didn't have a very early flight.

[1176] And Sean Johnson, That 2008 gold medal beam winning, because Nostia had beat her in the all -around.

[1177] Then they also got silver and team that year because China was unbeatable.

[1178] And then she also got silver and floor because Nostia was relentless.

[1179] And then I think someone beat Sean in Vault, which her Aminar was major.

[1180] I got to look up what happened on that 2008 -Vault final because I don't understand what happened with Sean there.

[1181] But Sean's beam -go -metal.

[1182] That was her last chance to become an Olympic gold medalist.

[1183] I mean, she didn't know at the time because obviously she was gutting for 12 and it didn't work out.

[1184] It didn't work out.

[1185] That was Fierce Five was stiff competition, but she did come in 2011, and she was great in 2011.

[1186] I fucking love gymnastics so much.

[1187] It literally hurts my queer bones.

[1188] Can I ask the parallel that I wondered about both of you?

[1189] Is Monica's in Georgia?

[1190] She's feeling very other, and she has to be perfect at all times to fit in and not get excluded.

[1191] You're feeling obvious feelings being in rural Illinois.

[1192] To watch something where there is an objective score given based on ability and no other bullshit.

[1193] It doesn't matter if you have red hair or you have this or you have that.

[1194] If you do this series of things, you will get this score.

[1195] This is kind of an appealing.

[1196] Now are you seeing how we're so far apart on gender things?

[1197] Ducks.

[1198] No. It is not like that, though.

[1199] It's not.

[1200] No, oh no. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Because it's, it is subjective.

[1201] Gymnastics and figure skating is anything but objective.

[1202] And I love it anyway, but it is incredibly unfair.

[1203] Okay.

[1204] I thought maybe like watching someone exert ability and be judged on that and no other shit would be appealing.

[1205] I love that too, but everything is involved.

[1206] I mean, if your hair isn't right, if you gain too much weight.

[1207] But it's done in a different vein, right?

[1208] It'll be like, you know, her leaps aren't reaching 180 degrees.

[1209] Or she is more of a powerful gymnast than an interpretive gymnast.

[1210] They have to reverse engineer what they really like to make it sound legitimate.

[1211] That's actually really interesting, though, if you're in.

[1212] the Olympics and into gymnastics.

[1213] So the U .S. national championships are end of August, and then they'll select the world team for what's in October.

[1214] And every four years, there's like a new code of points.

[1215] The power players that make the rules were like, this was actually like thinly veiled at Simone.

[1216] And just the U .S. in general, but really Simone, because they were like, you know, all this power.

[1217] We're just doing tricks.

[1218] Real women's gymnastics is about artistry and grace, too, because men's is supposed to be more powerful.

[1219] So we don't want to incentivize all this power.

[1220] I'm trying to keep it, quote, feminine.

[1221] They want to make.

[1222] make it more graceful.

[1223] So now dance and artistry on balance beam and floor are as important.

[1224] If you fall, your form, they can deduct so much just for expression, artistry, especially for musical interpretation.

[1225] Like, that's a new thing now in gymnastics.

[1226] So they're like they used to make fun of, like, gymnastics, like being all robotic and stuff.

[1227] Yeah, yeah.

[1228] No, no, no. Now you will see they are giving you fucking ballet.

[1229] They're giving you fluid.

[1230] They're hitting every beat.

[1231] And the people who were winning kind of have a little bit more threat now.

[1232] And, you know, our girls that are a little bit more robotic, they got to get it together with all those dance.

[1233] They really do.

[1234] Which is a completely different skill.

[1235] It's a whole different thing.

[1236] Because, I mean, when you're doing that much twisting and flipping and punching, it's like, the dancing was in the 80s and 90s.

[1237] It was like when you catch your breath.

[1238] Exactly.

[1239] And now these girls got a fucking like, which in my opinion is way fucking harder than men's.

[1240] And not all of them, but some of the girls are doing tumbling passes that are very comparable to men.

[1241] For sure.

[1242] And also Simone's double your chinko.

[1243] That would outscore...

[1244] Can you tell me what double your chinko is?

[1245] That sounds great.

[1246] So it'll be the Biles when she does it at the Olympics because it'll be the first time that a woman has performed this ball in an international competition.

[1247] So you're doing a roundoff onto the board so that you're facing backwards from where you came.

[1248] Then you're doing a backhand spring onto the vault.

[1249] And then she does, it's really two and a half backflip.

[1250] So from where she's taking off, it's really three.

[1251] But because she's, you know, putting her hands on the ball, it's like two and a half.

[1252] Oh, my God.

[1253] But there's like one Russian guy named like Nikita Nagorni.

[1254] He's an Olympic team gold medalist.

[1255] and I think he got silver in the all -around in 2021.

[1256] He performs that vault as good as she does.

[1257] Another good example of that, not to keep bringing it back to gender, but Michaela Maroni, 2012, her Aminar, they literally put it, and this was like a really viral thing that they did on NBC all the fucking time, where her Aminar was literally two feet over Kenzo Shirai's, who was the men's all -around gold medal champion and ball champion.

[1258] Her whole torso was like a foot and a half, and they would superimpose them on each other.

[1259] So even with the gender thing, the idea that all, men are categorically stronger than all women just because they're men, that's also something that we need to challenge.

[1260] Oh, yeah, there's lots of women that are stronger than me. For sure.

[1261] But when we transpose that onto fairness in sports, a lot of the argument is men are always stronger than women, full stop.

[1262] But back to the lighthearted things, because I'm getting there again.

[1263] Gymnastics is going to be a really fun year.

[1264] Really quick.

[1265] Have you been asked to commentate or be involved in the Olympics?

[1266] I have.

[1267] I have.

[1268] I have.

[1269] What is stopping you?

[1270] You are an encyclopedia of gymnastics.

[1271] Money, money, money, money.

[1272] Well, it's also like I would almost have to pay to do it, you know?

[1273] And I'm once I'm running like a hair business over here.

[1274] I got like five fucking cats.

[1275] I got three dogs.

[1276] I got a husband.

[1277] Why don't you do your own thing?

[1278] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1279] Right?

[1280] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1281] Okay, actually, I'm going to commission you on that because that's really smart and that's so good.

[1282] And I actually have thought about this before.

[1283] But you already have a media empire.

[1284] No, but I was thinking like green screen stadium, you know, and then I just do my little commentator version.

[1285] Yes.

[1286] You know, to do like a little recap.

[1287] but obviously you can't use the stuff because the peacock will come for me. One more thing because when you were talking about why we were drawn to it as sort of outsiders, I think it's just the community where even within the community, if you're killing it, then there's an acceptance there that you can't get any other way.

[1288] It's so true, because I was a really good backspot.

[1289] So it didn't matter that I was like super fucking queer.

[1290] No, everyone wanted you.

[1291] No, and it's really interesting that people used to say to me in high school, like, you're the most popular kid in school, but no one likes you, but everyone knows you.

[1292] I would say that to the cheerleader to be like, thanks, girls.

[1293] Like, that was all you.

[1294] You guys got me socially accepted out here in this bitch.

[1295] You were the first male cheerleader in your high school's history.

[1296] Yeah.

[1297] I got scared.

[1298] I was like, a yell leader in the 40s or something, like when it was like a different time.

[1299] But definitely contemporary Quincy history.

[1300] I was the first one with the girls with the skirts.

[1301] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1302] You do a ton of gymnastics on your Instagram, which I follow.

[1303] I'm always blown away with your agility and your athleticism.

[1304] Thank you.

[1305] Because you're tall.

[1306] It's not like you're not a 4 -11 little gal.

[1307] People tell me that I'm taller than they thought I would be.

[1308] You're tall?

[1309] You're really tall.

[1310] I was also known in high school.

[1311] For being tall?

[1312] No, but the same thing you said.

[1313] Everyone knew me, but a lot of people didn't like me. But you were popular by knowing.

[1314] That's right.

[1315] That's right.

[1316] That's right.

[1317] I felt very familiar.

[1318] But wait, I have another intrusive thought, even through all of that other conversation, even when it got, like, as heated as it did.

[1319] Yeah, yeah.

[1320] And I think this guy is also extremely attractive with a past, like, would totally like that's in both just, like, rail me. Do people ever tell you that you kind of give them a little bit of, like, a hot Diplo vibe?

[1321] Ooh, I don't know what Diplow looks like.

[1322] Okay, this.

[1323] Yeah, I can see.

[1324] Do you see what I'm saying?

[1325] Just like, like, a similar, just, like, really hot, just like hot arms.

[1326] Well, you know what we have?

[1327] A couple things.

[1328] Like hot bodies and, like, cute faces.

[1329] I love you.

[1330] Can I talk to you every morning when I'm looking in the mirror?

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] It's not what I. But not his bleach in tone, not the bleach and tone.

[1333] I know, but right away, he's got kind of big features, right?

[1334] He's got big lips like I do.

[1335] He's got prominent nose.

[1336] This for me is the picture where he really gives me you.

[1337] Oh, wait, so he is fucking jacked.

[1338] But I think you're probably jacked like topless.

[1339] You're giving me like jacked topless.

[1340] I'm happy to finish this interview with my shirt off.

[1341] I think you've seen it.

[1342] Can I say another thing that's happening is I have black eyebrows, right?

[1343] And blonder hair and a red beard.

[1344] And he has very dark eyebrows for how white is.

[1345] hair is.

[1346] I think that's also in the mix.

[1347] I feel like your eyebrows are the color of a number two pencil.

[1348] Like they're a dark one.

[1349] I think black is like a little bit like.

[1350] Appropriating?

[1351] No, not appropriate.

[1352] It's like a little bit not a one end.

[1353] It's definitely more like a seven end on the hair color scale.

[1354] Okay.

[1355] Well, I'm fucking delighted that you think I look like that.

[1356] Which is kind of along the lines of pretty curious.

[1357] Our new support podcast to Getting Curious.

[1358] You guys, I'm launching a beauty podcast to support getting curious.

[1359] Yes.

[1360] Would you mind if I walk people through it?

[1361] Please right now.

[1362] I want to say getting curious.

[1363] You've been doing.

[1364] since 2015, long before we were.

[1365] We're posers.

[1366] You've been doing it for eight years.

[1367] It's really, really incredible.

[1368] And then now you are launching two news shows, or maybe more, but I know about Curious Now, which is kind of news related.

[1369] Yes.

[1370] Some of the debate we had maybe.

[1371] Yes.

[1372] I will say.

[1373] Here's some links.

[1374] You will like it.

[1375] Yes.

[1376] And then pretty curious, which is beauty.

[1377] Yes.

[1378] Yes.

[1379] Which is insane that it took you eight years to have a beauty podcast.

[1380] I realized, because like getting curious as my baby, I really started.

[1381] because, like, I love to learn, and I was like, I need to learn about history and things that I never learned about in school.

[1382] How do I keep doing that?

[1383] So, really, it starts, like, a passion project that I just wanted to keep learning about things.

[1384] But at the beginning, I was cold emailing, like, PhDs and professors from all over the country by myself.

[1385] When I was, like, also a hairdresser doing Gay of Thrones.

[1386] It was, like, a very different.

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] And then, obviously, queer, I made it really different.

[1389] But every week, I'm getting curious, you really can see my ADHD shine, not only in my interview style, but also in the topics that we cover.

[1390] Well, I listened to the episode about gossiping, which I love.

[1391] Oh, yeah, that was amazing.

[1392] With Melton, I loved.

[1393] That was really interesting.

[1394] We did orcas recently.

[1395] I liked so much about orcas.

[1396] Yes.

[1397] But in the last five weeks, we did whales.

[1398] Then we did the science of sleep.

[1399] I learned so much about sleep that I didn't know about.

[1400] They ended up being like a MythBusters episode because I was like, what about this Wives Tale?

[1401] What about that Wives Tale?

[1402] What about that?

[1403] Yeah.

[1404] What was the one that you were most blown away with wasn't true?

[1405] Which Wives Tale?

[1406] We're probably going to shelf that expression pretty soon too, right?

[1407] Most of them were kind of true.

[1408] You know, drinking much of alcohol or eating much of sugar.

[1409] So a lot of the things were pretty much true.

[1410] And it's also about really.

[1411] learning stuff.

[1412] Because if you don't get enough sleep, when you're presented with new information, you can't make space in your brain to, like, take on new stuff.

[1413] So if you're getting an adequate sleep.

[1414] Because you have processed yesterday's shit.

[1415] Yes.

[1416] Yeah.

[1417] Because she said basically, like, every day we're just like making a mess in our brain.

[1418] And then the sleep, you got to put everything back up on the bookshelves.

[1419] But it's also about making more space in the bookshelves to like retain.

[1420] But her research proved that because they used to say that for consolidation, it wasn't about making new space.

[1421] It was just consolidating what you already know.

[1422] But it's actually you have to sleep to like make new space.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] That's one of the criticisms of some of the sleep medication that is narcotic, is that your brain now isn't functioning.

[1425] It doesn't get the real cycles.

[1426] It's not processing all that information.

[1427] I was like, I was like, what do I like the weed?

[1428] It really affects the second stage of sleep.

[1429] So there's cycle one, two, three, and then the rim cycle.

[1430] And I always thought that that was a one time thing, but really you cycle through that five to six times at night.

[1431] But it goes like one, two, three rim, one, two, three rim.

[1432] Then it goes one, two rim, one, two, rim.

[1433] So you skip that third.

[1434] But what marijuana really affects is the second cycle.

[1435] And there's these things called sleep spindles that are supposed to be a couple seconds once a minute.

[1436] And I can't remember if she said it was like seven minutes or like 20 minutes.

[1437] But whatever the time is, it's supposed to be like a little and then it comes again.

[1438] And they can see that on the brainwaves when they do the sleep studies.

[1439] People on marijuana, their sleep spindles take five minutes.

[1440] So instead of being like a little, actually the second cycle is really important for consolidation.

[1441] So I was like, ugh.

[1442] I'm so smart and remember everything though, so that's weird.

[1443] But then we did one on the paparazzi, which was really interesting.

[1444] I thought the paparazzi were like the same people that are on the red carpet.

[1445] Honey, no. It's like a whole other thing.

[1446] And then what else?

[1447] Ooh, ooh, viruses.

[1448] That was a really long time ago.

[1449] And my ADHD just won there.

[1450] That's from my list of all time favorites.

[1451] But some of my ones that I loved the most or learned the most was Debrie Antonovich.

[1452] She's like an abortion expert.

[1453] Abortion expert is a weird thing to say.

[1454] She's really a historian who studies the intersection of medicine law in the American West.

[1455] She's like an extra on like Dr. Quinn and the medicine woman and all that stuff.

[1456] But her whole thing was Dobbs was reversed on.

[1457] John Robert said that abortion isn't deeply rooted in American history.

[1458] So he used that as a justification for overturning Roe.

[1459] And her whole fucking thing is that while abortion didn't look like it does now, Benjamin Franklin literally had an abortion recipe in his diary.

[1460] Abortions back then looked like a cocktail that a midwife would make you when you had an unwanted pregnancy.

[1461] It's just that back then, sometimes they would fucking kill a woman.

[1462] And that was actually the first abortion law was in 1830 in Connecticut to protect the mother.

[1463] That's why Roe v. Wait, one, because, yes, there were so many women dying of illegal abortions.

[1464] But it's like we have these Supreme Court justice who are using history to interpret these things in certain cases, but like they're not fucking historians.

[1465] And that's what her whole thing was, is that actually abortion is incredibly deeply rooted in this country's history when you fucking look at things like midwives and the history of abortion law.

[1466] And you will see that women have been trying to control their reproductive freedom for a fucking long time.

[1467] Really quick.

[1468] So we do something similar, right?

[1469] So Thursdays is experts.

[1470] Mondays is famous people like you, and then Thursdays is professors, scholars, inventors, you name it, right?

[1471] Lawyers.

[1472] They provide my whole social life.

[1473] Me too.

[1474] I always have shit.

[1475] Just like you're doing right now, this is me on a Friday or Monaco on a Saturday at dinner.

[1476] Oh, we had this owl expert in.

[1477] You wouldn't believe owls?

[1478] All of a sudden, I'm so obsessed with owls.

[1479] And I think my life would be so boring if we didn't get to talk to these people once a week.

[1480] I've gotten to learn so much of what I know from it.

[1481] Jake Newsom, he did the history of the queer victims of the Holocaust, which really, when it comes to transphobia and homophobia, learning that history, I was like, oh, my God.

[1482] Paragraph 175, Google that shit.

[1483] But anyway, what I've also learned from getting curious is not everyone wants to hear about that.

[1484] Sometimes I just want to hear about dry shampoo.

[1485] Sometimes I want to hear about fucking lip gloss.

[1486] Sometimes I want to hear about your favorite body care.

[1487] So you've siloed out these different interests of yours so that people know what they're going to get.

[1488] So now I'm doing pretty curious.

[1489] It's all beauty knowing me. probably will end up dipping my toe into something that I'm passionate about because I can't, you know, divorce myself?

[1490] Before we move on from Germany, can I recommend a book called Blitz?

[1491] Have you read Blitz?

[1492] No, it sounds amazing.

[1493] Drugs in the Third Reich.

[1494] They invented Crystal Math.

[1495] Yes.

[1496] In the 20s, they invented it.

[1497] And then all the soldiers were given rations of math.

[1498] And wasn't Hitler just high as fuck on it?

[1499] He was on speed.

[1500] He had a doctor with him at all times by the end.

[1501] Like when he's making those terrible decisions about Russia or not going into Dunkirk.

[1502] And you would love this as a fellow drug addict.

[1503] If you look at his bunkers, the walls kept.

[1504] getting thicker and thicker and thicker and the one he actually dies and ultimately the walls are 13 feet thick of cement and he's never leaving and he's just shooting up all day long.

[1505] Well, honey, when you're not sleeping and you're so high, I met that paranoia gets surreal.

[1506] I was so fucking paranoid.

[1507] Terrible piece of shit, but at some point had some acumen for war.

[1508] And then you just see that completely nosedive perfectly correlated with him becoming a junkie.

[1509] Well, thank God.

[1510] At least not been one good thing in history.

[1511] Truly.

[1512] Thank God, meth.

[1513] That's the first, the only time I'm never going to make meth.

[1514] Yes.

[1515] But it's true.

[1516] But it's.

[1517] really fascinating to see at that time they had perfectly pure cocaine for dental work and all this other stuff.

[1518] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1519] Methamphetamine, you could just go to the drugstore, no prescription, just buy them.

[1520] Thank you.

[1521] And the fact that when they invaded Poland, when you now know this, they were all on mess.

[1522] So yeah, they fucking marched for 36 hours because they were drugged out of their mind.

[1523] There's like fucking meth out of their goddamn mind.

[1524] It's so fascinating.

[1525] I actually have one more little tiny baby thing for getting curious world.

[1526] So then I was like, where do I get to really be a slutty horror?

[1527] Where am I really going to be canceled?

[1528] Yeah.

[1529] So ask JVN.

[1530] It's It's giving talk sex with Sue Johansson.

[1531] It's like after dark.

[1532] It's like, can I have a three -way safely with my ex?

[1533] You know, what's prep?

[1534] All the sex things.

[1535] It's like, how do I get ready for anal?

[1536] I did a great question the other day about how to gently get into butt plugs.

[1537] And I have to say that I got butt plugs with my friend, which I also talk about on this, they had not gotten Carmen San Diego on their ass.

[1538] And I was like, it's time for us to investigate down there.

[1539] You're grown up and you got to know what's going on down there.

[1540] But I was shocked at the price of these butt plugs.

[1541] High or low?

[1542] Hi.

[1543] We spent $220 on two.

[1544] You couldn't have gotten them cheaper than that?

[1545] I don't know.

[1546] $220.

[1547] I'm like, do you want me to finger you?

[1548] I mean, I know it doesn't feel quite the same and I don't really love to have my whole finger.

[1549] Like, I'd rather just put your dick in it.

[1550] But that's kind of what ASJVN is like, you know?

[1551] I mean, vibrators are expensive.

[1552] I didn't know.

[1553] But that doesn't be the game.

[1554] I never needed to get my ass ready in that way.

[1555] I was already ready.

[1556] Right.

[1557] So I didn't have to like really go that route.

[1558] I've never had to buy one.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] And I learned.

[1561] But the vibrators have at least some mechanical components.

[1562] Did this butt plug have any kind of?

[1563] Yeah.

[1564] One did have one that you could like, it did have like a. That's the one that.

[1565] broke the bank, probably.

[1566] Or like a rolling kind of sensation.

[1567] Oh, wow.

[1568] Sure.

[1569] That's banging into the prom state, I imagine.

[1570] We had like loose.

[1571] Got a loose.

[1572] Got a loose.

[1573] Yes.

[1574] Relax it.

[1575] Relax.

[1576] Because otherwise it's painful so you can just get it together.

[1577] Yes.

[1578] Yes.

[1579] Yes.

[1580] Yes.

[1581] Okay.

[1582] So that's a fourth S JVN.

[1583] Yeah.

[1584] So it's a sleeper.

[1585] Okay.

[1586] I love this for you.

[1587] So it's a network.

[1588] Yeah.

[1589] Yeah.

[1590] It's everything.

[1591] Getting curious.

[1592] I love it so much and our team loves it.

[1593] But it's like we've been doing it for eight years.

[1594] There's just more I wanted to talk about.

[1595] And especially founding JVN hair.

[1596] I just work with a lot of other cosmetic.

[1597] and founders.

[1598] I mean, I thought I was really knee -deep when I was in the salon.

[1599] I'm real fucking knee -deep now.

[1600] It's like I like talk shop.

[1601] I want to learn more.

[1602] The beauty industry is really interesting.

[1603] I'm using, what is your opinion on I have taken to?

[1604] And maybe you can see from there.

[1605] I'm wearing a tinted moisturizer with gold.

[1606] It looks great.

[1607] I thought your skin has looked great.

[1608] It's not great, but this tinted moisturizer from Victoria Beckham.

[1609] Oh, good for her.

[1610] She was aghast and she brought it.

[1611] Yeah.

[1612] She sent it.

[1613] Yeah.

[1614] And boy, am I addicted to it?

[1615] The British skincare, I got to say, I'm into that Trinny London, honey.

[1616] I like her skin care line.

[1617] I like Carolyn Hyrens, variant of Victoria Beckham.

[1618] She's great.

[1619] I have to say lately, though, here's who's really got my fucking goose right now in the skincare.

[1620] And this is not hashtag paid summer Fridays.

[1621] That's when I need summer Fridays.

[1622] That jet lag mask and their CC serum and their shade drops mineral sunscreen.

[1623] That shit is so non -chalky and just, ugh.

[1624] I met those girls a few weeks ago, the founders.

[1625] And it was also really funny, sidebar.

[1626] I hope they don't listen to this part.

[1627] We were doing this, like, Sephora Conference.

[1628] And basically, they're the founders, and their brand is called Summer Fridays.

[1629] And they were like, yeah, we just love that no one knows that we're the founder.

[1630] Because we just want the brand to be bigger than us.

[1631] We just love it when people don't name brands after themselves because it can just be like so much bigger than yourself.

[1632] It's like not about us.

[1633] We're in the panel and there's 500 Sephora people.

[1634] And then they're like, and Jonathan with JVN hair.

[1635] What is your?

[1636] And I was like, did anyone bet the order of these like sitting order?

[1637] Like, could I have just been sitting on the other?

[1638] The JVN, what does that stand for?

[1639] Like, this is such an awkward question to follow.

[1640] I took it on the fucking chin.

[1641] Okay.

[1642] But that goes to show how much I fucking like them because I still am into the products.

[1643] You know, the jet lag mask is everything.

[1644] Okay.

[1645] Well, listen, that was the last thing I was going to bring up.

[1646] Well, no, two things.

[1647] I'll jump to the last thing, which is Kristen is obsessed with JVN hair.

[1648] So we have a ton of it.

[1649] Stop saying that.

[1650] It's not, it's not dry shampoo, but a clay shampoo.

[1651] Don't tell her that we got to fucking fight about trans rights, okay?

[1652] Just fucking keep it cool.

[1653] Like, it's fine.

[1654] She'll expect that that happened.

[1655] She'll be fine.

[1656] There was a specific product she was talking.

[1657] She's obsessed with, yeah, she puts in the girls.

[1658] Pre -washed gout oil, air -dry cream.

[1659] It's like the best of waves.

[1660] Yes, air -dry cream.

[1661] She puts it on the girls.

[1662] She puts it on herself.

[1663] If you need me to send it to you because it's really sold out right now.

[1664] Let us buy it.

[1665] Well, I would love for YouTube, but it's been sold out for three months.

[1666] That makes you so happy that you use air dry cream.

[1667] That's really one of my most formulas.

[1668] I think it's just so amazing.

[1669] But I also have to say our pre -washed gout oil is super next level.

[1670] I'm a hairdresser and I'm a boogey bitch.

[1671] I like really luxurious things that aren't that much money, but I also like things that do cost a lot of money.

[1672] But here are stuff.

[1673] We got to keep buying it all the time.

[1674] So, like, how can I create something as, like, luxurious, but, like, not $8 million dollars for every single thing, but even for getting that, our new nurture mask, summer queenies, fall queens, when there's, like, seasonal changes, like, our hair just sheds its pants, this nurture mask is everything.

[1675] And if you have, like, finer hair or, like, hair that you're, like, oh, I'm scared of a mask, you're just going to use, like, a grape and sort of, like, your midlinks and ends, keep it off your scalp, or just put the leftovers on your scalp.

[1676] If you have thicker hair that, like, really need some hydration, you're just going to use a little more, you know, but I love it for fine -haired people to use a little less.

[1677] You should have pointed this would have been a time, eastern and western.

[1678] That's true.

[1679] That's true.

[1680] Thick hair and then thin hair.

[1681] Although we have a friend who's a hairstyles and he said something interesting about my hair.

[1682] He said you have a lot of it.

[1683] That's fine individually.

[1684] Not fine, but not thick.

[1685] Like you would because.

[1686] Not coarse.

[1687] I'm walking around being like I have such thick hair and he's like, you actually don't.

[1688] You just have a lot of it.

[1689] I feel like you have very dense hair.

[1690] A lot of hair per square inch.

[1691] Yes.

[1692] But I do think she's fine individually.

[1693] Yeah.

[1694] But there's so much hair per square inch.

[1695] Whereas I have not that.

[1696] many hairs and they're kind of medium to fine okay my edges are fine but then like some of the back where like I don't care about it it's thicker but your shit's so fucking dark lovely thick and full thank you I think that people get confused between density and individual strand size exactly so we might be doing the wrong thing you got so much fucking hair per square inch but it's like yeah strand size it's different yeah interest the gauge yeah you have to look at the individual strand yeah and I intend to under a microscope last tiny tiny, and then even tinier.

[1697] I watched the Letterman segment.

[1698] Ah, beautifully done.

[1699] We interviewed him recently, my anxiety leading up to that, how much therapy I did to make sure I didn't try to impress him or show him how smart I went, you know, all these things that I'm prone to do and to watch how wonderfully you, you were during that whole thing in front of a very intimidating guy that I would imagine, I don't know what he holds in your mind, but for me, just comedically, he's on the Mount Everest, you know.

[1700] So I just want to applaud that.

[1701] Thank you.

[1702] Lovely, that whole thing was, and how I think you and I got the same thing out of him, which is a very playful side, which was just really fun.

[1703] He got me on my toes, darling.

[1704] Yeah, yeah, it was great.

[1705] Yeah, I've never had someone try to bite my fingers.

[1706] It was, I was like, I was like, he really cut me on my toes.

[1707] That was great.

[1708] Great job.

[1709] And then this occurred to me while we were talking that I have long said, Monica's heard me say this.

[1710] And people don't agree with this, but I have a hunch you and I are the same on this, which is you can say anything about me. If you end it with, and I'd love to fuck him.

[1711] So, Dex is so arrogant and he's selfish and he's cheap and I totally love to fuck him.

[1712] It's a big win.

[1713] I don't really care what proceeds.

[1714] If you end it with and I totally want to fuck him, then I'm golden with that.

[1715] I mean, I want to do that anyway, no matter what.

[1716] Do you relate, though?

[1717] Yeah, I talk in my comedy there, like a secret shame -based crush on Mitt Romney.

[1718] I don't know what's wrong with me. No, I've wanted him to reel me since the 2002 Salt Lick City Games.

[1719] He's very, leave it to Beaver, Ward Cleaver.

[1720] No, it's the shoulder pads.

[1721] Actually, a journalist, a journalist that told me, or not journalist, a comedian I work with, I love I said journalist.

[1722] He was like, actually, I used to deal with that same affliction, but his office just posted a picture of him boxing, and it will take care of it.

[1723] You won't be feeling it anymore.

[1724] And then I went and looked and I was like, I got fucking Romney fever higher than ever before.

[1725] I have like rose -colored glasses on for him because he preserved Michelle Kwan's ability to secure her second Olympic medal.

[1726] Like come in me. You know what I'm saying?

[1727] Like, breed me right now.

[1728] I'll have your Mormon babies.

[1729] Like, I'm fucking like this divorce mark.

[1730] I'll fucking have your baby.

[1731] Bye Mark.

[1732] No, like, I'm like Latter -day Saints.

[1733] I know that you guys, like, have your things, but read me, you know what I'm saying?

[1734] And I also will tell you this, when they chased him down in the instruction, I was like, take Howley, take Callie, take Cruz, don't take Middy.

[1735] He's the only that middy.

[1736] And I got canceled for Twitter on that for saying that shit, too.

[1737] Sure.

[1738] No, Mitt, he does.

[1739] That's a problem with Twitter with you is you can't talk fast enough on Twitter.

[1740] They'll catch you.

[1741] I don't have enough characters.

[1742] I don't even on there anyway, because I don't support him.

[1743] The final thing I want to say, everyone should be listening to.

[1744] getting curious, curious now, pretty curious, ask JVN, which I just found out about.

[1745] But only after you listen to every current episode of fucking armchair experts.

[1746] Slowly, slowly what has happened post our rough patch is I do want to own one thing that I want to apologize for.

[1747] Oh my God, okay.

[1748] This is embarrassing that it took this for me to realize this.

[1749] But I remember at some point when I was in my mid -20s saying, well, I don't know why black folks are so mad when someone's offhanded in music, I loved Ice Cube and he was very against Whitey and I still enjoyed it.

[1750] And for some period of time, I was acting like those two things were comparable, that they were the same.

[1751] And later I realized, oh, of course it's not scary to me to hear Ice Cube hates white people or did in 1994.

[1752] Because Ice Cube's likely not going to be the judge I face.

[1753] He's not going to be the cop that pulls me over.

[1754] He's not going to be the employer that I seek a job from.

[1755] I'm embarrassed to say that took me a while to recognize.

[1756] Oh yeah, it's completely different if he voices that versus I do or someone else because I have the power.

[1757] We have the power.

[1758] So I just led in the notion that when you and I are talking, it's different.

[1759] We have different opinions, but also I have the power.

[1760] And it's very fucking scary to look at the people that have the power.

[1761] And I have this opinion.

[1762] And that's going to be a lot scarier to you than your opinion that differs from mine.

[1763] And I just want to acknowledge that.

[1764] Well, thank you.

[1765] That was really kind.

[1766] But also, you know what my therapist says?

[1767] Why?

[1768] She says that relationships grow through disruption.

[1769] I agree with that.

[1770] That's our whole life.

[1771] So basically, like, we probably are going to scissor now.

[1772] We're going to scissor into the sunset.

[1773] And, you know, my husband's here, your wife's here.

[1774] It's like everyone's important.

[1775] Now, it's going to be great.

[1776] It's like, oh, my God, should we start, like, a weird collab only fan?

[1777] First came the spirited debate about, like, trans inclusion in sports, and then came the fucking.

[1778] The ultimate touchdown would be that I end up transitioning after all of this.

[1779] And then I fight to compete in something.

[1780] And we go back to the beginning.

[1781] Honey, I love it.

[1782] We go and we learn.

[1783] Oh, I love you so much.

[1784] Thanks for having me, honey.

[1785] Yeah, I appreciate it so much.

[1786] I like you so much.

[1787] I like you too, honey.

[1788] And I'm rooting for every single thing you do.

[1789] You're so, so funny.

[1790] The vein on that left bicep, honey, I don't even know how I was able to talk about trans rights because, no, honestly.

[1791] It's like, look at the vein on that fucking bicep, you guys.

[1792] You should put that on your social.

[1793] It's all over his social.

[1794] I'm pretty modest.

[1795] No, for a camera roll dump, just when you're really like giving, like, bulging biceps, and you're, like, at a fresh pump.

[1796] I made sure I timed my pump for you today.

[1797] Like a vainy, like a close -up, like a this, that'd be pretty.

[1798] The goal is like...

[1799] Ooh, it's really hot, you guys.

[1800] The goal is like, it looks accidental, right?

[1801] Right, exactly.

[1802] You're like trying to make it.

[1803] It's really like, it's really giving me like an...

[1804] Well, let's go take some pictures together and I'll hold you with these biceps.

[1805] Okay, let's do it.

[1806] Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.

[1807] Today, I was trying to recall a name, Clarence Thomas, and I couldn't do it.

[1808] And then I wondered, I think not drinking is bad for my brain.

[1809] No, don't you think it's the, you wouldn't assume it's the estrogen you're now on?

[1810] No, it's the not drinking.

[1811] No, not drinking's good for your brain.

[1812] That's, there's very definitive.

[1813] It's been eight days?

[1814] This is day eight.

[1815] This is day eight.

[1816] I do miss it.

[1817] Yeah.

[1818] But I really, I really do have this weird back and forth in my head about whether it's good for me to be off of it or not.

[1819] Meaning, like, medically speaking, are you actually upping the odds of getting a big egg retrieval?

[1820] Oh, oh, oh, no. I feel very good to do this through the egg retrieval.

[1821] I got you're thinking more long term.

[1822] More long term.

[1823] What are the real benefits I'm feeling from this?

[1824] And it is murky because now I'm on the estrogen, so it is hard.

[1825] Clouded a little bit.

[1826] Yeah, you've thrown a lot of new variables at yourself.

[1827] I have.

[1828] I definitely was totally.

[1829] the side of your head, see what happens?

[1830] No, don't say that.

[1831] What if I get erratic because of the estrogen and do it?

[1832] And I might do it.

[1833] You're going to thank me once you try it.

[1834] I like my hair.

[1835] What's great?

[1836] And you'll still have, no, but you'll still have 80 % of it.

[1837] I'm just talking about the side.

[1838] Oh, God.

[1839] Okay.

[1840] Okay, now back to how you're feeling.

[1841] And when you're evaluating this, do you have a pros and cons list or just a cons list?

[1842] Well, no, I, I'm really trying to be positive about it.

[1843] it about the whole journey, but I'm really trying to be curious.

[1844] There we go.

[1845] About this experiment.

[1846] The sleep part is very interesting to me because that is the piece that I said many months ago.

[1847] I feel like this is my consequence for drinking.

[1848] That you can't sleep well?

[1849] That my sleep is fucked up.

[1850] Okay.

[1851] And so when I'm evaluating whether this is bad for me or not, what are the consequences?

[1852] I have to be honest with myself and say, I think sleep.

[1853] is a little erratic and but then being off of it your sleep hasn't changed i i would i would argue it's way too early i think your body's really adjusting still you know it's like finding homeostasis i mean look at i mean when i quit opiates a time it was a fucking month sure there was like the two weeks that were insufferable right it wasn't until a month that i think my body completely responded and not that you're drunk or anything but you do drink almost every Consistently.

[1854] It's like your body has adjusted to that biochemically for sure.

[1855] Yeah, it could be that.

[1856] And also there's all these little factors.

[1857] Like yesterday I did computer work.

[1858] Uh -huh.

[1859] Normally I would have wine with computer work.

[1860] And this was 3 .30.

[1861] Normally I would definitely have had a glass of mine.

[1862] But I didn't.

[1863] But I wanted something.

[1864] So I had coffee.

[1865] Okay.

[1866] Yeah.

[1867] This is what I did when I got sober.

[1868] I started banging that coffee.

[1869] I would go to Starbucks.

[1870] when I would normally drink and get a big fucking 30 ounce coffee.

[1871] Yes.

[1872] Because I wanted some.

[1873] Yes.

[1874] I want to be able to shift my feelings.

[1875] Something to mark the day.

[1876] Uh -huh.

[1877] Yes, for sure.

[1878] So I had a coffee.

[1879] That probably doesn't help the sleep evaluation.

[1880] Well, I didn't think about it.

[1881] But I didn't think it was going to be a problem because I was working till late.

[1882] And it was good.

[1883] I needed that to stay alert.

[1884] And I was tired at the end of work.

[1885] So I was like, oh, this was perfect.

[1886] Then I got into bed.

[1887] And then I didn't, I couldn't sleep until 1 .30.

[1888] Yeah, yeah, caffeine is.

[1889] But I drink caffeine normally, but is it because it's balanced by the alcohol?

[1890] Oh, because you then have a depressant.

[1891] Yes, yes, absolutely.

[1892] Okay.

[1893] Yeah.

[1894] Well, that's, now you're in my situation.

[1895] Like, the whole system gets way more sensitive.

[1896] Yeah.

[1897] Or it's like now, well, I wasn't at all sensitive to caffeine before.

[1898] Right.

[1899] Because I drank and I stupefied myself to go to sleep.

[1900] You had coffee, though?

[1901] I had ice coffee.

[1902] Ice latte.

[1903] Go to macha or tea instead.

[1904] That's true.

[1905] I could try that.

[1906] And you just probably got to set a time where you don't drink it beyond that.

[1907] I know, but that's the time.

[1908] I know.

[1909] That's the time I want it.

[1910] Yeah.

[1911] But you're feeling that enormous urge right now because it's so habitual, but you will stop feeling that urge.

[1912] Like, I don't feel the urge when the bread basket comes to eat bread anymore because it's been a year and a half.

[1913] And I don't even think about the bread basket now.

[1914] Yeah.

[1915] Well, I also thought immediately I would be in such a better mood.

[1916] and then I really wasn't at all.

[1917] Even before the estrogen, I was in sort of a bummer of a mood.

[1918] Yeah.

[1919] So.

[1920] Can you feel the estrogen at all?

[1921] I can't.

[1922] I don't know what's what.

[1923] I don't know.

[1924] I really don't.

[1925] It really is.

[1926] I don't feel crazy on it, though, which is good.

[1927] Great.

[1928] And have you been crying uncontrollably or anything?

[1929] I cried once.

[1930] Okay.

[1931] One cry.

[1932] But that's not.

[1933] Yeah, that's not uncontrollable.

[1934] That wasn't uncontrollable.

[1935] And I've been on that for three days.

[1936] Mm -hmm.

[1937] This will be my fourth day on it.

[1938] I think my skin might be responding well to it.

[1939] Liz and I both commented.

[1940] Yeah.

[1941] I think estrogen is actually good for your skin.

[1942] Testosterone, not so much.

[1943] Pimples, zits.

[1944] Yeah.

[1945] And progesterone.

[1946] And buttney.

[1947] Ew, yeah.

[1948] Yeah.

[1949] Asny, butney.

[1950] Yeah.

[1951] Do you ever when you lay down at night, do you ever just touch your butt to see what's going on?

[1952] Of course.

[1953] Yeah, and then This is butt cheeks or butt holes?

[1954] Cheeks, cheeks, cheeks.

[1955] Just to know because you'd ever see it.

[1956] Sometimes you did your butthole too, you know.

[1957] Yeah, well, I don't know.

[1958] Sometimes if I feel a little tiny pimple or like a little scab.

[1959] Yeah, a little dry bump.

[1960] Yeah, I get really fixated on it because I can't see it and I don't, I hate it.

[1961] in your mind about 800%.

[1962] And then I probably do make it worse because then I'm like kind of picking at it.

[1963] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1964] So that's been going on.

[1965] Yeah, that's one of the, I know it's always a balance beam of having a partner or not.

[1966] Right.

[1967] That is an area where, you know, you have your partner look at this thing on your ass.

[1968] Oh.

[1969] Oh, it's nothing.

[1970] You can barely see it.

[1971] I was going to say the opposite.

[1972] Well, it's those moments that I'm really grateful I'm by myself.

[1973] No, that's their job.

[1974] Your partner's job is to like either pop it if it needs popping or telling you now, this thing's not ready or this is nothing, move on.

[1975] No. And then if you trust them, then you can.

[1976] I don't want them to see it.

[1977] Okay.

[1978] And I don't want them to see me touching my butt.

[1979] So I like being alone for that.

[1980] Anyway, yeah.

[1981] So I didn't sleep that well.

[1982] And I haven't been sleeping that well.

[1983] Could be some coffee issues, but also maybe I am sleeping well during the actual sleep.

[1984] Right.

[1985] And I don't know.

[1986] Because that's really comment I've heard with people who, they passed right out.

[1987] And they're like, oh, I slept eight hours.

[1988] And then they look at, if they wear, you know, any one of these monitoring devices, they find out their sleep actually sucked.

[1989] Yes.

[1990] So maybe I'm sleeping well.

[1991] But in the morning, I am tired every morning, really tired.

[1992] It's not a dream result.

[1993] But maybe I'm just waking up in the middle of a weird cycle.

[1994] Yeah.

[1995] So it's a lot to balance.

[1996] It's a lot.

[1997] One day at a time.

[1998] This two shall change.

[1999] This two shall pass.

[2000] Yeah.

[2001] It's temporary.

[2002] Everybody will level out.

[2003] Yeah.

[2004] And I, I mean, I'm trying not to think too far ahead, but I do wonder how long I'll do it.

[2005] Well, what's your commitment?

[2006] Two weeks?

[2007] My commitment is through the freezing, which will be all in all, because I did five days before the estrogen.

[2008] The estrogen will be about seven days, and the shots will be 10 to 12.

[2009] Okay.

[2010] So it'll be about a month.

[2011] Almost a month.

[2012] Yeah.

[2013] But I'm adding all these other ingredients in during the freezing that makes me. me wonder if I should do some time after, nod on it.

[2014] Right, to evaluate it.

[2015] Yeah.

[2016] You know, you just, it's a bummer, but you got to, you just got to go to yourself, I'm on a ride.

[2017] I'm going to be on a ride for like six weeks.

[2018] Yeah.

[2019] And it'll be over in six weeks.

[2020] And six weeks goes pretty fast, even though it sounds insurmountable.

[2021] Yeah, it doesn't sound insurmountable.

[2022] I only question, I guess I have some feelings of anxiety around, do I need to do this for Forever.

[2023] Am I going to do that?

[2024] What if I decide to do this forever?

[2025] That feels scary.

[2026] And I just think I shouldn't do that.

[2027] That's why.

[2028] That's the entire basis of one day at a time.

[2029] I know.

[2030] Listen, I have sponsored dudes that they go, I mean, what am I not going to have a beer with my son on his 21st birthday?

[2031] Yeah.

[2032] And you go, maybe you will.

[2033] Yeah.

[2034] Today, though, you're not going to.

[2035] Right.

[2036] You can get through today.

[2037] Is your son turned 21 today?

[2038] That's literally how it works.

[2039] It's only today.

[2040] Have you noticed, I mean, okay, one major thing I have noticed I talk to my therapist about.

[2041] And I'm realizing a big component of alcohol is I like the way it plays with time where it slows down time when I want it to slow down time and it speeds up time when I want it to speed up time when I'm editing.

[2042] It speeds up time.

[2043] When I'm with friends, it slows down time.

[2044] Yeah.

[2045] And pretty cool.

[2046] Yeah, it's really cool.

[2047] I love that.

[2048] And I have noticed, even though it hasn't been that long, I feel done earlier.

[2049] I feel like done with the evening in a social engagement.

[2050] Oh, when you're sober.

[2051] Yeah.

[2052] Right.

[2053] So we all had dinner the other night.

[2054] We're just like, oh, this is, well, let's wrap this up.

[2055] No, no, no, no. No, it's not that extreme, right?

[2056] It's just, it's just I can spend five hours.

[2057] Yes.

[2058] And it goes so fast.

[2059] And I want more if I'm drinking.

[2060] Yes.

[2061] Yes.

[2062] Yes.

[2063] Yes.

[2064] But again, this is where we get back to me saying my favorite part of having gotten sober is that I learned how to be 12 again.

[2065] Yes.

[2066] So it's just like you're right.

[2067] It's not going to be fun to hang out at that place for five hours.

[2068] But you find the other things.

[2069] And for me, they feel more substantive that I have these little hobbies and things I do at this time.

[2070] And then that replaces it.

[2071] Yeah.

[2072] You know?

[2073] It makes sense.

[2074] And then in retrospect, I'm like, well, I'm happier that I spent all that energy getting myself to the motorcycle track or going out with friends to do this event thing.

[2075] You know, like, because to me, all the five -hour nights hanging in the same place, they're almost all the same night.

[2076] Yeah, but they're all fun.

[2077] They're all fun.

[2078] But it's just like for me, it's like I can't distinguish one from the other.

[2079] Yeah.

[2080] It's kind of like someone told me they liked that I said this to him.

[2081] I had totally forgotten.

[2082] I even said it to them.

[2083] But I saw them.

[2084] It was a woman who I had seen.

[2085] 11 years ago, Kristen was pregnant and I was saying what you tell yourself is I'm going to miss the novelty of meeting new people and having sex with them and having the experience with them and that that's a lot to give up because that's really fun.

[2086] But in fact, I've done that.

[2087] I did it a bunch of times.

[2088] It's actually not new.

[2089] There's a new person involved, but it's the same pattern.

[2090] What I've never done before is have a kid.

[2091] Right.

[2092] That's novel.

[2093] And then the kid changes so much every day that they make it inevitably, you know, endlessly novel.

[2094] Yeah.

[2095] But it feels like you're giving up novelty, but it's how you get novelty.

[2096] That's very interesting.

[2097] I do think me and you are different, though, and that I'm not looking for novelty.

[2098] I'm looking for consistency.

[2099] I'm looking for the opposite thing.

[2100] And I do know what I'm going to get when I have two glasses of wine.

[2101] with these people in this environment.

[2102] But I also have that because you've told me, I've been addicted to drugs that didn't make me feel better, but I knew how I was going to feel.

[2103] That's the appeal.

[2104] I don't really care if it's better or worse.

[2105] It's just I know what it'll be.

[2106] And that's very comforting because I have anxiety about the future.

[2107] Yeah.

[2108] And to know exactly how I'm going to feel is comforting, whether it's worse or better.

[2109] Yeah.

[2110] And I mean, for me, normally in that time, it's better.

[2111] It's not better or worse.

[2112] It's just fun.

[2113] Yeah.

[2114] So that's like, in my head, a positive thing I'm entering and I know it's going to be a positive thing.

[2115] Yes.

[2116] Yeah, because even when I'm with my favorite people, like the girls dinner, that was the first night.

[2117] That was night one.

[2118] Yeah.

[2119] So that's not necessarily fair.

[2120] We're going to throw out that data set.

[2121] And it was still great.

[2122] But I did realize, I like looked at the clock.

[2123] Yeah, let's get these gales out of here.

[2124] That was fun.

[2125] I did not want them to leave.

[2126] I did not.

[2127] But I did think, oh, it's going to be 9 .30 and it was like 7 .30.

[2128] Yeah.

[2129] Look, this isn't your case, but this is the case of many people who drink a ton.

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] Which is what you find out sober, actually, is that that group of people's not very fun.

[2132] Oh.

[2133] They're only fun if you're drunk with them and they're drunk.

[2134] And that's its own weird realizations.

[2135] Like, oh, hmm.

[2136] Yeah.

[2137] I thought they were a little more fun.

[2138] Yeah.

[2139] And then what you got to do is you've got to then actually go find the people that are really fun.

[2140] Right.

[2141] Whatever that means to you.

[2142] I don't know.

[2143] Yeah.

[2144] That's not my case.

[2145] No. Anyway, so that's sort of an update on that.

[2146] Oh, I have another update.

[2147] Oh, what is it?

[2148] My PR teacher reached back out after our episode.

[2149] Oh, really?

[2150] Yeah.

[2151] And what?

[2152] She confirmed it was her who gave me the B. Yeah.

[2153] Oh, she did.

[2154] Yeah.

[2155] Great.

[2156] You asked her and she said.

[2157] I didn't ask, but she heard.

[2158] Oh, because she had heard.

[2159] Okay.

[2160] And so.

[2161] Does she remember it differently, though, that it wasn't 89 .5%.

[2162] No, I'll read it.

[2163] It's pretty funny.

[2164] Okay.

[2165] I love this shout out on the most recent episode, and then she has bullets.

[2166] According to Google Scholar, our article has been cited 617 times by scholars in their published work.

[2167] That's actually huge.

[2168] Most research never breaks into the double digits, to be honest.

[2169] Well, congratulations.

[2170] That's pretty good.

[2171] exciting.

[2172] You're an academic all -star.

[2173] I guess.

[2174] And then she said, the second bullet, your memory of my grading scale and you're running with it is not wrong.

[2175] Oh, oh, good.

[2176] Oh, that's comforting.

[2177] And then the last one, she says, I still do not round up, but at least you know I'm consistent.

[2178] Well, and when you just said you like consistency.

[2179] I do.

[2180] Yeah.

[2181] Well, it would be really pissed if later she gave somebody else a round up.

[2182] Yeah.

[2183] That would be really bad.

[2184] Roundup.

[2185] That's a product.

[2186] Round up.

[2187] She's calling my age, right?

[2188] I'm sure your professor was 12 years older than you.

[2189] She's probably younger than me, actually.

[2190] She might be younger.

[2191] I could have been one of your professors.

[2192] Oh, my God.

[2193] Oh, my God.

[2194] I had stuck with schooling.

[2195] Yeah, because if I was 20 and you would have been 32, you would have been like Calvington.

[2196] Is that how old he was?

[2197] Who knows, right?

[2198] I think he was 10ish older.

[2199] We just don't know.

[2200] We just had an episode where we talked to teachers, and we all admitted that all teachers in our mind either 50 or 75.

[2201] They were just about to retire or they were 50.

[2202] And in reality, they were 28.

[2203] They were all 28 and some of them were 50.

[2204] He was young.

[2205] I think he might have been 28 or 30.

[2206] I mean, he was young enough.

[2207] That's why it was hot.

[2208] Yeah, but you also like him old as fuck.

[2209] I do, but he was old.

[2210] You like the dad, the black dad of the young black boy that you were mean to.

[2211] I mean, what was that age gap?

[2212] 20 plus years.

[2213] No, probably.

[2214] I was five.

[2215] Yeah, I guess maybe.

[2216] Yeah, 20 years, it's not that crazy.

[2217] I don't know how old the dad was, but he was hot.

[2218] Mustache, right?

[2219] Mustache.

[2220] It's funny that the details you remember about someone's story, because when you hear that you like someone with a mustache, the headline for me is like Monica likes dudes with mustache.

[2221] Right.

[2222] Yeah, I know, but I think that's counterintuitive for me. I think I'm wrong, though.

[2223] Maybe he's just so masculine.

[2224] You've painted a mustache on him.

[2225] I actually know he didn't have a mustache.

[2226] mustache, but I know why this is confusing.

[2227] And I think I've said this out loud, I'm a little worried I haven't.

[2228] I think I have.

[2229] About my dad?

[2230] That your dad had a mustache?

[2231] Well, my dad has a mustache a lot.

[2232] Yeah, and he shaved it.

[2233] He shaved it.

[2234] And then when he shaved it, he kind of looked like that dad.

[2235] Oh, and that was disturbing.

[2236] Yes.

[2237] I didn't know how to handle that because that dad was hot.

[2238] That's right.

[2239] And your dad is your dad.

[2240] Yeah.

[2241] Mm -hmm.

[2242] So, right.

[2243] It's a confusing place.

[2244] It really is.

[2245] Constantly get curveballs.

[2246] God.

[2247] So, okay, so this is for Jonathan.

[2248] Okay, right.

[2249] This is for Jonathan, and he is an encyclopedia.

[2250] He really does.

[2251] Oh, the Olympic stuff was insane.

[2252] Oh, my God.

[2253] He knows so much.

[2254] It's crazy how much he knew about the gymnastics.

[2255] Yeah, he has a very encyclopedia.

[2256] I think it's worth mentioning, for whatever reason.

[2257] We hung for quite a while after the episode, and it was very, very lovely and joyful and fun.

[2258] Yeah, and what we have mentioned on the intro, I guess I'll reiterate, which is, I personally think it's important to put out conversations where people aren't necessarily on the same page.

[2259] Yeah, and that's real life.

[2260] And so I think it's important to hear.

[2261] It's not performative.

[2262] That's not really what we're trying to do.

[2263] And I really liked that it ended up okay.

[2264] Yeah, what I care more about than my position is that we live in a space where we can, it doesn't always go well.

[2265] The expectation that it's going to go well or that you're going to be stoked by somebody's opinion.

[2266] Like he was brokenhearted by my opinion.

[2267] I recognize that.

[2268] That's a bummer.

[2269] Yeah.

[2270] But I do care more about.

[2271] the notion that despite all that, we still have to talk about everything.

[2272] You can't be like, I can't just air that opinion when he's not around.

[2273] That doesn't feel right either.

[2274] I fully agree.

[2275] Like, how do we meet in the middle anywhere on anything if we don't do this?

[2276] So, okay.

[2277] So Jonathan's husband, Mark, was here.

[2278] Yes.

[2279] And Mark has red hair.

[2280] Yes.

[2281] And Mark said that in England, they call him Duricel.

[2282] It's a pejorative because of the top of the battle.

[2283] is red, but really it's gold.

[2284] Yes.

[2285] But is it red over there?

[2286] Oh.

[2287] I thought that's what you're about to hit me with, is that in England, DuraCels are red.

[2288] But that can't be it either because DuraCell sponsors Williams the race team, and they have a big Duracel battery on the back behind their head because it's perfectly battery shaped.

[2289] It's a great little placement, and it's gold.

[2290] Yeah.

[2291] All I'm seeing is gold tops.

[2292] Okay.

[2293] They should call blonde.

[2294] One people do a cell.

[2295] I should be referred to.

[2296] Well, young me should be referred to.

[2297] Now I should be referred to as whatever silver is fuck.

[2298] Gray as hell.

[2299] No. You're not that gray.

[2300] Sides are really gray.

[2301] Okay.

[2302] The reason maybe English people are conflating red with the gold because it, like, look at this picture.

[2303] Like, you could see it as red.

[2304] There's a million other items that would be more of a bull's eye to compare a redhead too.

[2305] That's true.

[2306] A carrot.

[2307] I eat carrot top.

[2308] No, a carrot is orange.

[2309] Okay.

[2310] Well, some red hair does lean towards.

[2311] Actually, most red hair is orange.

[2312] It's a little bit orange, yeah.

[2313] It's never red like a fire engine.

[2314] No. That'd be cool.

[2315] Fucking great.

[2316] Yeah.

[2317] Have you ever liked any redheads?

[2318] Like, had any crushes on any redheads?

[2319] Jess.

[2320] I didn't have, I don't have a crush on Jess, but I don't know.

[2321] I had a redhead girlfriend.

[2322] He's the only redhead boy that I know.

[2323] Prince Harry?

[2324] Oh, Prince Prince Harry's hot.

[2325] Seth Green, Conan O 'Brien.

[2326] Oh, Seth is so cute.

[2327] Yeah, I love all these guys.

[2328] Even McGregor?

[2329] He is red hair?

[2330] I don't know if I'm going to know.

[2331] He's on this list of famous male redheads.

[2332] Well, is that on sentient beans .com?

[2333] Jesse and him.

[2334] Jesse does.

[2335] No, you and McGregor, no. I'm looking at a bunch of pictures of him.

[2336] I'm friends with him and he doesn't have red hair.

[2337] Maybe one time he died it.

[2338] Or maybe he's got, like, just a tint.

[2339] Okay.

[2340] Hey, the president of France, his wife, was his teacher.

[2341] It was at Lessee la Providence that she and Emmanuel, thank you.

[2342] She and Emmanuel Macron first met.

[2343] He attended her literature classes and she was in charge of the theater class he attended.

[2344] This is hot.

[2345] I know.

[2346] She's 25 years older than him.

[2347] 25 years older?

[2348] My mom should have tons of hope that she's going to marry a 50 years.

[2349] year old.

[2350] Oh, I mean, it could happen.

[2351] It could happen.

[2352] She's a, she's a catch.

[2353] Yeah, she is.

[2354] Um, okay, let's see.

[2355] We said late August is the biggest time of birthdays.

[2356] Yeah.

[2357] I stand by that without any, ever having looked up any data on it.

[2358] Well, that you're wrong.

[2359] Okay.

[2360] What's the hottest month?

[2361] September.

[2362] Close.

[2363] Yeah.

[2364] Yeah.

[2365] It's still.

[2366] Yeah.

[2367] It's still nine months from Christmas, I guess is the important thing.

[2368] Yeah, but we did.

[2369] We did.

[2370] But we sent August, so I have to check it.

[2371] You're right.

[2372] You're right.

[2373] Okay, September 9th.

[2374] I don't know barely anybody that has a September birthday.

[2375] Amy, Jess.

[2376] Okay.

[2377] September.

[2378] There are like seven August people.

[2379] I know.

[2380] But that's your own clouding.

[2381] I got Zendaya, Salma Hayek.

[2382] Beyonce.

[2383] This is all September?

[2384] Idrasalba, yep.

[2385] Martin Freeman.

[2386] I thought was August.

[2387] Cusp.

[2388] Beyonce September 4th.

[2389] fourth cusp she's a cusp her she's a cusper she's a september i'm a special virgo why is that because i'm in august virgo there are only a couple okay when's the start it starts on the 23rd and i'm the 24th or some people say the 22nd but then there's seven so there's seven 31 days in august so there's eight days yeah that you could not that many i thought you just said three though that's why i got confused oh like your birthday's not the 28th no no you're right Okay.

[2390] You're right.

[2391] We're back.

[2392] Yeah.

[2393] The 22nd or third is when it starts.

[2394] So there's like, yeah, like seven days, eight days or whatever, but still still the cooler version.

[2395] Okay.

[2396] Okay.

[2397] September 9th is first.

[2398] Then September 19th.

[2399] Then September 12th.

[2400] This is so weird.

[2401] Wouldn't you have imagined it patterned out to be like neighboring days?

[2402] Right.

[2403] But if you say it's the number one's the ninth, my guess.

[2404] is that then the 8th is number two and 10th is number three or some version of that.

[2405] Yeah, just because people were one day earlier later or whatever.

[2406] Yeah, that's where the mass peak is.

[2407] You would think it would kind of graph out.

[2408] It is kind of crazy.

[2409] It's September 9th, September 19th, September 12th, September 17th, September 10th.

[2410] The 6th is July 7th.

[2411] Wow, that's an outlier.

[2412] It is.

[2413] That's a left turn.

[2414] Because then 7th is September 20th, September 15th, September 16th, September 16th, September 18th are the top 10.

[2415] So they're all September.

[2416] And then Scattywompos.

[2417] That's the aunt that.

[2418] My favorite birthday in July is the second.

[2419] Because of Aaron.

[2420] Well, and the 18th.

[2421] Well, oopsie.

[2422] Oh shit, you got to raise that.

[2423] My first favorite birthday is the 18th of July and then second is July 2nd.

[2424] Sure, sure, sure.

[2425] I just never had a thing in common with Kristen like I do with Aaron, which is J2C, J2C.

[2426] He's your best friend.

[2427] People don't remember J2C.

[2428] Well, what's your favorite birthday in August?

[2429] January 2nd Capricorn and July 2nd Cancer.

[2430] J2C, very exclusive club.

[2431] It is.

[2432] There's no fucking way I'm answering that question because I have my mom, my sister, you, my grandma, There's just no way I will not walk into that lion's den That hurts When's your favorite birthday in August Rob?

[2433] Well, that's tough too because my dad's Oh God It's the 24th That's thank you My God Doesn't that feel obligatory Is that what you really want To bully someone into picking your birthday?

[2434] You have so many friends with birthdays In September just so you know I do Max Greenfield Okay.

[2435] There's more.

[2436] Oh, pink.

[2437] I'm not friends.

[2438] I mean, I'd love to be friends with pink, but I'm not.

[2439] I'm friends with Carrie, I would say, her husband.

[2440] Why don't you do Friends of the Pod?

[2441] Amy Rossum?

[2442] Okay, Friend of the Pod.

[2443] Lily Reinhart.

[2444] Friend of the Pot.

[2445] Prince Harry, Nick Jonas.

[2446] Wow.

[2447] Oh, fuck.

[2448] We're hitting hard in September.

[2449] Jimmy Phelan, Nicole Richie, Bill Murray.

[2450] Not Nicole Richie.

[2451] Or Bill Murray, though.

[2452] Oh, but you're saying I know her.

[2453] You know her from Plus as much.

[2454] I don't know.

[2455] I don't know Bill Murray, though.

[2456] Bruce Springsteen.

[2457] I knew her from being friends with A .M. is how I knew her.

[2458] Ben Platt.

[2459] Okay.

[2460] I think we're done with that.

[2461] Yeah, this is now is like Taylor's commencement speech.

[2462] Okay.

[2463] Now, one thing I do want to clarify, it is estimated that this is a dot org.

[2464] Okay.

[2465] It is estimated that up to one point.

[2466] 7 % of the population has an intersex trait, and that approximately 0 .5 % of people have clinically identifiable, sexual, or reproductive variations.

[2467] Kleinfelters, which you brought up, is 0 .1 to 0 .25 % of boys and men.

[2468] It says only 25 % to 50 % of patients with Kleinfelter syndrome are diagnosed during their lifetimes in autopsy.

[2469] No, just they would have had it genetically and never even.

[2470] known but how we know they'd have to have done it posthumously yeah how do they know they must it must be in my guess would be in a blood autopsy or something but who knows like instagram's tracking it could be they know everything those the gram or they also could have they could have deduced it by doing some section of genetic testing where they got this number but then they look at what medical records reflect that they're not identified in the delivery room as that, those two numbers could be off by 75 percent, right?

[2471] Yeah, maybe.

[2472] I mean, that's maybe how they could deduce it.

[2473] Okay.

[2474] Mitt Romney came up at the end because...

[2475] Jonathan's hot for him.

[2476] Yeah.

[2477] He retiring, right?

[2478] Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

[2479] It was a sim because a couple days after that, yeah, he announced that he will not run for re -election to the Senate and called for a, quote, new generation of leaders as he criticized both President Joe Biden and former president Donald Trump.

[2480] Well, he and I are on the same page.

[2481] I will ask this.

[2482] This hopefully doesn't come across as political, but many Democrats have publicly said they miss certain Republicans, that they would be like happy with a. Mitt Romney, right?

[2483] After Trump, a lot of people said that, yeah.

[2484] I wonder if they feel that way at all on the right about any of our presidents.

[2485] Like, are they going, well, we'd kill for a Bill Clinton at this point?

[2486] Like, do they think we have changed so much?

[2487] Because we're accusing them of changing quite a bit.

[2488] From my perspective, it seems like the party changed a lot.

[2489] Right.

[2490] I wonder if from their perspective, probably with all the different things that were talked about in this episode.

[2491] Well, I think they would say that if someone very far left got elected.

[2492] I don't think we've had anyone yet, and maybe never, who knows, who they would say that about.

[2493] If, like, AOC was the president, they might say that.

[2494] Or if Bernie Sanders had one, because he's kind of a socialist.

[2495] Yes.

[2496] If Bernie had one, they might have said, like, oh, we would, we would have.

[2497] We missed that capitalist, George Clinton.

[2498] Or, yeah.

[2499] George Clinton, my God.

[2500] Leadsinger of BFund.

[2501] I don't think, I don't think we have one of those.

[2502] Yeah.

[2503] They probably feel that way about some of the senators.

[2504] There's a bunch of people in the Senate.

[2505] in Congress and I'm sure.

[2506] They're much further left.

[2507] But they don't wish, like, they just wish it was a Republican.

[2508] Right.

[2509] Well, and I think we're all playing the same game, which is like, well, if it were a Republican, we'd be delighted that it was met Ryan.

[2510] And they might be saying, well, if it's got to be a Democrat, I prefer it's Ted Kennedy over AOC.

[2511] Yeah.

[2512] I did want to do just because I personally just got curious at how many people go to the Olympics in general of the entire.

[2513] higher world population.

[2514] Like attend the Olympics?

[2515] No, athletes.

[2516] Oh, how many athletes are in that opening ceremony?

[2517] They fill up a whole arena, right?

[2518] Well, the percentage of people in the world, how many are Olympic athletes at that time?

[2519] Oh, right.

[2520] So I get the calculator ready?

[2521] Okay.

[2522] Oh, you don't have to actually because it says it.

[2523] It says.

[2524] Okay.

[2525] Damn it.

[2526] I've been rendered useless.

[2527] I read, this is wild.

[2528] Yeah.

[2529] I read that your testosterone levels have positive effects on your math ability.

[2530] Isn't that bizarre?

[2531] Are you serious?

[2532] Yeah, that was part of the book.

[2533] Oh, it was?

[2534] Yeah.

[2535] But is that why they say men are better at math?

[2536] Well, great.

[2537] So what they did, they were better at math statistically, right?

[2538] But then someone had the good site to compare different countries.

[2539] The number was something like of perfect scores on math section of SATs that only one in 11.

[2540] were women.

[2541] Okay.

[2542] So they're like, well, what's going on?

[2543] Then they're looking in the brain for what area is responsible.

[2544] Is that different structurally than with women?

[2545] Anyways, someone else did a cross -cultural examination of this.

[2546] And what they found is that in countries where gender equality exists, like they say that Scandinavia, that it actually, they're there, that they have total gender equality.

[2547] And there, the numbers are dead equal.

[2548] but what's sad for boys is even though it's dead equal the reading portion is still dramatically better from girls but their testosterone in in scandinavia wouldn't be higher no but this that study is looking at men and their testosterone levels and their math aptitude just looking at men oh oh that something about testosterone increases the ability to do math which is fascinating Huh.

[2549] Yeah.

[2550] So it's just within the West, this, right?

[2551] The testosterone thing?

[2552] Yeah.

[2553] I don't know.

[2554] Okay.

[2555] Okay.

[2556] So the percentage in 2012, the Summer Olympics, there were 10 ,960 athletes.

[2557] At the time, the Earth's population was 7 billion and some other numbers.

[2558] So 11 ,000 divided by 7 billion.

[2559] Pretty much.

[2560] Okay.

[2561] Point zero zero zero zero one four.

[2562] Kind of close.

[2563] What is it?

[2564] Point.

[2565] Point.

[2566] 0 .0015 or 16.

[2567] I will round up because I'm not Dr. Sweetser.

[2568] But if you round up, then I'm further away from the guess.

[2569] So could you keep it just the unrounded number?

[2570] 0 .0 .0 .000.

[2571] Mind you I'm up like two factors of 10, though.

[2572] I miss two zeros.

[2573] Or one one millionth of one percent.

[2574] One one millionth of one percent.

[2575] Pretty hard to be one.

[2576] Right.

[2577] Anywho, that's all.

[2578] Okay, love you.

[2579] Love you.

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