Claire Danes

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dak Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Aminominated Monica Padman.

[3] Miniature Madman.

[4] Speaking of the miniaturist mouse and the most Maximus mouse, Monica has her own show coming out so exciting.

[5] It's such a good idea, and it's already so tasty and yummy.

[6] And I participate, and Mommy participates.

[7] That's right.

[8] So it's 10 episodes.

[9] It's still an armchair show, so don't worry.

[10] Don't worry.

[11] But it's called Monica and Jess love boys.

[12] That's right.

[13] There's more to it than us just loving boys.

[14] There is, there is.

[15] It's about relationships and dating because Jess is gay and he overdates sort of unequivocally.

[16] Sure, sure.

[17] Objectively, he's a heavy dater.

[18] He dates sometimes 10 to 15 a week.

[19] Sure.

[20] And I am straight and have the opposite issue.

[21] I, serially underdate.

[22] Yes.

[23] It would appear at least on the surface, although we may discover with all the experts that come in, that they're opposite problems.

[24] But again, we don't know.

[25] Exactly.

[26] That's what's been really interesting is, yeah, we're coming at it from sort of opposite points of view.

[27] But, you know, everything ends up being pretty universal.

[28] And there's challenges.

[29] Yes.

[30] Yeah.

[31] So we have experts on.

[32] We have the armchair expert himself on the first episode.

[33] and we have our mother Kristen Bell on.

[34] We have really, really fun experts like Dr. Drew and Dr. Alex who we had on this show and Millionaire Matchmakers coming on.

[35] Oh, my God, I can't wait for that.

[36] Yeah, it's really been fascinating.

[37] But, yeah, so at the end, we get a challenge from our expert or our guest, like an assignment for the next week so that we can break some of these patterns we're in.

[38] Yes, because the whole goal is, you know, Just like on this show, we talk about all of our shit, but the goal is to not just talk about it, but make changes.

[39] Get into action.

[40] Exactly.

[41] So they've been really scary and fun, and we're really learning.

[42] It's been great.

[43] And it comes out on very easy to remember on Valentine's Day, which will be our two -year anniversary.

[44] And it's also a day of lovers.

[45] And that's the topic that's being explored.

[46] So it'll come out on February 14th, which is Valentine's Day generally.

[47] Friday.

[48] And then it'll be every Wednesday for 10 weeks.

[49] Yeah.

[50] And if you subscribe to I'm your expert, you'll get it.

[51] Yes.

[52] Now, today's guest is one of the best actors on television.

[53] Hands down, three -time Emmy Award winner, to throw shade, four -time Golden Globe winner, and two -time SAG Award winner, Claire Daines.

[54] fell in love with her in Romeo and Juliet she blew my mind in Temple Grandin she was in Terminator 3 with the guy my so -called life started at all and of course now she's in the eighth and final season of Homeland which premieres February 9th on Showtime so please enjoy Claire Day's Oh and actually this is a good segue because at the very beginning of this episode I had just come off of a challenge and we're talking a little bit about it at the top of the episode so if you're a little confused we're talking about a Monica and Jess challenge yes so please enjoy Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[55] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[56] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[57] He's an armchair expert.

[58] So one of the challenges was to join a dating website?

[59] Yeah.

[60] Like an app.

[61] These all make me very uncomfortable.

[62] I know, but I'm really proud of you.

[63] Thank you, thank you.

[64] It makes me so uncomfortable, too, which is why I'm doing it.

[65] But it's so fun to vicariously live through all of them for Kristen and I. She's 32.

[66] And her age range was, what, 34 to 49?

[67] No, 50.

[68] Was it always 50?

[69] Yeah.

[70] I feel like I get that.

[71] Thank you.

[72] You had a big reaction.

[73] And someone that loves her, at 18 years older, I'm like, hon, you will be with this guy for five years and it'll get some kind of terminal disease.

[74] Yeah.

[75] I mean, I understand that logic as well, but I don't know.

[76] I would cast a broad net.

[77] So we were arguing over whether or not it should be younger or older.

[78] And she went and saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

[79] And she came back and she's like, I can't have an age bracket that excludes Brad Pitt.

[80] He's got to be in there.

[81] Fair point.

[82] So then I was like, I need to raise my limit.

[83] She went the other way.

[84] You don't know until you go exploring.

[85] Exactly.

[86] Now, you've been with your husband for a long, 11 years or something?

[87] something we've been married for 10 we've been together for 13 13 yeah okay so bell and I are roughly the exact same not the marriage part but the together part okay so we live in stagnation we have children yes we're 13 years in do you ever because technology has changed so much do you ever just play out in your head what life would be like if you were single and you actually were on one of those have you ever given that any energy occasionally I've been in relationships like from the moment puberty hit, basically.

[88] And I was even in way too intense relationships with my girlfriends before then, so I am a relationship creature.

[89] Me too.

[90] And when I had broken up with a boyfriend who I'd been with for three years, and when I first met Hugh, we met on a movie called Evening.

[91] We met at a rehearsal, and then we kind of disbanded, and we were going to regroup.

[92] And during that time, where we all went back home, this breakup happened, and I was determined to be single, where I was really excited about it and kind of bragging about it.

[93] And I went on a date.

[94] A date.

[95] With somebody who's actually kind of known, but not in the business, so I can't say it.

[96] And I thought, this is okay.

[97] Like, because I've auditioned my whole life.

[98] I've been on lots of talk shows.

[99] I feign intimacy for a living.

[100] So I could disassociate just enough and flirt.

[101] And, like, Like, I was so relieved, yeah, that it was kind of possible.

[102] Had one one -night stand and that was it.

[103] And that was the whole thing.

[104] That was it.

[105] My palate was cleansed and then went back and filmed the movie, realized, oh, shit, I think I'm going to marry this person.

[106] And the end of my, yeah, life as a single person was realized.

[107] How quickly into like?

[108] Actually, that's not quite true.

[109] I think I was in staunch denial for a while.

[110] Well, you had a whole new game plan.

[111] I had a new game plan.

[112] I was like, I already had a one -night stand, so I'm flying.

[113] Well, and I don't want any details, but was that in general a satisfying experience?

[114] Was it all you had?

[115] It was really fun.

[116] Great.

[117] But then he stopped emailing me. This is when people emailed.

[118] This is like even before texting.

[119] You got mailed.

[120] You've got faxing you.

[121] Yeah, and I was like, oh my God, that's a real thing.

[122] Like, they have sex with you and they stop being interested in you.

[123] Wow.

[124] Because there was a lot of energy until it happened.

[125] And then, it was a little disappointing, I got to say.

[126] But whatever, it's fine.

[127] Because I was like onto my husband.

[128] So we were good.

[129] But did you go into the encounter going, this is my one -night stand?

[130] So you're expecting, were your expectations that?

[131] That was the spirit that I was in, for sure.

[132] Right, right, right, right.

[133] But then after it happened, you're like, well, I could go another round.

[134] But as I said, I am a relationship person.

[135] So who was I kidding, really?

[136] But so Hugh was going to be like next stop.

[137] and then he was just wonderful.

[138] So next up forever more.

[139] I remember talking to you guys somewhere, but I can't place it.

[140] We were at the big fight.

[141] The fight of the century.

[142] It wasn't called the big fight.

[143] Hakey on Mayweather.

[144] Yes, that's right.

[145] That's so weird because this morning I'm going to give you more details than you need.

[146] I was on the can.

[147] I was talking to my wife who was in front of the mirror.

[148] And I said, hon, we have talked to Claire and her husband.

[149] And she goes, that sounds right.

[150] I also remember meeting Kristen at a showtime thing, and she was very sweet, and she was, like, a big fan of the show, and she said as much, and I was so, I don't know, I was very flattered, and I was, like, disarmed by her enthusiasm and her sincerity, and, you know, and, yeah, and I'm a big fan, too, so.

[151] Well, we loved, she probably didn't tell you, and you probably don't know this, but do you know you've acted with Kristen?

[152] What?

[153] What?

[154] Oh, new info.

[155] When Kristen was 13 years old, she played a friend of yours with no lines.

[156] In a play or something?

[157] No, no, in a TV show or a TV movie or something.

[158] Wow, I'm so flattered.

[159] That's so cool.

[160] Wow, that's exciting.

[161] Isn't that great?

[162] I thought her first movie was Pootie Tang.

[163] Well, that was one of her seminal first roles.

[164] That's like the new Porn Star game.

[165] Exactly.

[166] A porn star name game.

[167] So, but anyways, and eventually I said out loud, I said, God, maybe it was at that fight.

[168] And then we both concluded, that doesn't feel on brand for you.

[169] And then we moved on.

[170] I was like, that seems like maybe where it was, but then I was like, I can't imagine she was there.

[171] Yeah, no, I was there.

[172] We were excited.

[173] You are, okay.

[174] Yeah.

[175] And do you have a history of liking boxing?

[176] No, it was the event.

[177] Yeah.

[178] I'm really scared of boxing.

[179] Violence?

[180] Yeah, violence.

[181] I'm not particularly good at.

[182] Right.

[183] But, you know, it was the very excited it was a big deal at the time well and okay so what happened to was nevin's invited christin like i don't know a month or two before the fight yeah and she was like no i don't want to go to fight she was also filming something in Atlanta right and then later i found out like a month later this is the same thing that happened with hugh and i because he invited me and i was like and then i mentioned in passing to hugh very close to the day i was like you know we were invited to that and he was like what yes i almost divorced yeah yeah and i said oh that's something he would like to do yeah so i made some desperate calls like who do i know because we could get tickets but we couldn't get in we couldn't get a flight oh oh right the flights were booked yeah so we scrambled to locate a billionaire oh right i think we called put some feelers out yeah we called Matt Blank, and he said, no, my plane is full, but I do have a friend who could carry you over, who happened to be a neighbor from a place we lived in before our place now.

[184] And oddly, coincidentally, we did happen to know this billionaire person who was very nice.

[185] But yeah, so we hitched a ride.

[186] Well, in my case, I just couldn't believe it, that she would have turned down those tickets.

[187] And then I flew to see her in Atlanta where she was shooting.

[188] And right when I got there, I went into the house and she was like, I love you.

[189] So excited you're here.

[190] You got to go back to the airport in four hours.

[191] You have a flight back to Vegas.

[192] And I was like, oh my God.

[193] And she'd already planned like my friend Andrew Pernay is going to meet you there and we're going to have this evening.

[194] You know, whatever.

[195] It was right.

[196] Here's where I'm getting to the funny part of it for me was I had been once before as a guest of Showtime with Kristen.

[197] We went to a different fight.

[198] And we by God, we're in the first or second row.

[199] I mean, you know, you're.

[200] You know, you're were getting hit with sweat and whatnot.

[201] So my buddy who I brought, I was like, oh, wait to you see these showtime seats, right?

[202] Yeah.

[203] And then they're walking us there, and we passed the first few rows where all the actors are and everything.

[204] And I, oh, I guess we're going to be on the backside.

[205] I didn't know those were seats too.

[206] And oh, now we hang right up the stairs.

[207] And then I'm like, oh, we're really climbing these stairs for a while.

[208] And I promise this outrageous seating.

[209] We were pretty high up there.

[210] We were pretty high up there.

[211] And it was hard on the ego for a while.

[212] But then I noticed a Vanderholyfield was just one row behind us.

[213] And I was like, oh, a Vanderholyfield's one seat behind us.

[214] We're good.

[215] And then we celebrated all in on the joke that we were obviously.

[216] No, but it was a real, it was being at court kind of.

[217] Uh -huh.

[218] Like the status?

[219] It was.

[220] Oh, yeah.

[221] That was what it was almost all about.

[222] Yes.

[223] I mean, I think the Metball was also that same week.

[224] And it was a strange exercise and derangement.

[225] I mean, just that it was an ego.

[226] vomit fest and yeah and yeah and it's fun and it also leaves you feeling pretty twitchy it's comforting though right to know that other people there are having the same high school thought of like am I cool enough to be at this party is someone gonna pat me on the shoulder yeah and I've been so lucky to go to most of those things certainly the last 13 years with my best friend so that helps a lot yeah you know because you just have somebody to turn to and go, hey, yay.

[227] Yeah, share it with.

[228] And then occasionally you find an actual friend in the throng of beautiful people.

[229] Yeah.

[230] So, but it's a little mind bending.

[231] Yeah.

[232] And you do kind of float out of your body and look at it all from the outside in, which is not the most comfortable state to be in.

[233] Right.

[234] It really is all for me what my own mental state is.

[235] I can go and have the best time ever.

[236] Or I can go and just feel less than the whole time.

[237] And it's really, the experience is pretty static.

[238] It's also, it is a performance too.

[239] That's what's also confusing about it.

[240] And we don't have many, we don't have balls, really, anymore.

[241] Right.

[242] I think we probably had more of them once upon a time, but where you do parade yourself around and announce yourself in this formal, absurd way.

[243] And, I mean, I'm not necessarily critical of it because I do keep going back to them.

[244] Right, right.

[245] Because they're fascinating, and it is amazing to see so many extraordinary people in such a dense environment, concentrated space at their, you know, most elevated.

[246] Right.

[247] They've gone through hair and makeup.

[248] They've had a stylist, dress them.

[249] They didn't just wake up that way.

[250] And that is interesting.

[251] Do you get to the point, both of you, where you come home and you think, like, oh, none of that math?

[252] Oh, every time for me. Oh, yeah.

[253] None of it matters, exactly.

[254] The last one I went to was at the Metball, and I was pretty pregnant, and I also happened to be objectively unwell.

[255] I was, like, really sick.

[256] I had a fever, and it was, and the sickness was getting intensified over the course of the evening.

[257] It just becomes like an acid dream, right?

[258] But I was already altered in so many ways, you know, that weren't enjoyable.

[259] But I was sitting opposite Uma Thurman, who I kind of have known over the years, and she's quite warm and friendly.

[260] And I was saying, like, I'm really not feeling so well.

[261] And so after you have the big dinner, then the musical guest performs.

[262] You never know who it's going to be, but everybody kind of knows who it's going to be.

[263] In this case, it was Madonna.

[264] And we were all kind of ushered to another part of the museum, and I was feeling really faint.

[265] I just kind of groped my way to some stairs.

[266] and there, Uma was again, with J -Lo and A -Rod.

[267] And then the musical act was starting.

[268] And of course, Madonna was descending the stairs and was going to land exactly where I was sitting.

[269] And so, like, Uma grabbed me because she saw it was looking green.

[270] And she kind of, like, dragged me over to the wall with her and J -Lo and A -Rod.

[271] And then A -Rod got really excited because he loves homeland.

[272] And so then I was taking a selfie with Jalo and Arod as Madonna was, like, getting closer and closer.

[273] And I was just feeling like death.

[274] And, yeah, so that was my last experience of just like, what is going on?

[275] Well, the really fun part of it is for, like, Chris and I is we'll go in and we each have, like, three or four people we're currently obsessed with.

[276] Right.

[277] And then invariably, one or two of those people will be there.

[278] and then we help each other interact with that person.

[279] Yes.

[280] Like she was in love with Riz Ahmed for a while.

[281] So I started chatting him up on a red carpet solely to bring her into the full.

[282] That's very gracious of you.

[283] I went too far.

[284] Apparently it's been later this guy.

[285] I was telling her how attracted she was to him.

[286] Later, in retrospect, I'm like, he probably was wondering, like, are these two swingers?

[287] Like, is he trying to, like, lay the foundation for him to watch or something?

[288] Like, I do think I was a little too above board about it.

[289] you're right yeah but i was trying my hardest and then likewise she's done the same thing for me one time with lisa bonnay she knew growing up that was my yeah yeah i mean everyone obs yeah you guys yeah she made it happen she really i am impressed by your relationship it's a nod to her where did you just fly in from new york you did yes so home yes where do you shoot the show everywhere everywhere right but is there one primary location you're at the most no no no the first the first first three years, we were mostly in North Carolina.

[290] We were in Charlotte, which was serving as D .C. But even during those seasons, we were in Israel and we were Morocco, a fair amount, about a month, you know, a pop.

[291] And then it became this international show.

[292] So in the fourth season, after Brody died, there was a big reset, and the show was placed in Afghanistan, and we filmed in Cape Town for six months.

[293] And then the following year, we were in Berlin for six months.

[294] And then the next year, we were in New York, which was heaven for you probably.

[295] You know, I thought it would be heaven.

[296] And in some ways, it was harder because I suddenly had to do that job and also live my actual life to its fullest, which was really stressful.

[297] Yeah.

[298] I was much more easily able to compartmentalize up until that point.

[299] And then there was this integration, which I found really confronting.

[300] So surprise, surprise, yeah, that was a little harder than I expected.

[301] But we were shooting in Brooklyn, and most of my friends live in Brooklyn now.

[302] I'm still in Manhattan.

[303] I'm like the last Manhattan night standing.

[304] And it was so nice because they would come and, like, mooch off the craft service or, you know, just, you know, it was a pit stop on their way back home from work.

[305] But when you're playing her, it's not like when friends stop by and see me where I'm generally responsible for making some joke.

[306] the scene and so me shooting the shit and entertaining them and making them laugh and then stepping over here and doing that is like yeah no i got at that point i guess we were in our sixth season when have i not been making this show i was pretty facile with her and was quite comfortable with going in and out of her so it was a really a nice thing to find sarah or sunny you know in video village when i wasn't expecting you know like that was always welcome then the year after that we were in Richmond and then we were in Budapest for about a month and a half and then this last season the final season we were in Morocco for almost seven months and then we ended here in LA for two so this season went on forever I think because it could yeah in what would of all those places so I immediately have two thoughts which one was when I was younger and I did movies I loved going somewhere else and having like a whole life there that was fun and yeah almost to your point very compartmentalized you're in this little bubble and you're not super responsible for anything else now i would hate it because i have two little kids and i avoid that right but of all those places a has it evolved traveling and b which was your favorite of those so i had our two kids while we were filming you know over the course of the show they're five or six years apart yes that's right so cyrus our eldest turned seven in late december and December 17th oh we have a 19th really yeah So you know all about that.

[307] And then Rowan, our second son, is almost 18 months now.

[308] Yeah, so there's like five and a half years between the two of them.

[309] But we were figuring it all out.

[310] I mean, we had been married for a year when Homeland happened.

[311] So it was a very steep learning curve.

[312] And that South African season was incredible because it's outrageously beautiful there.

[313] Cape Town is honestly one of the most gorgeous places I've ever seen, been to.

[314] But Hugh took a job in Australia, and Cyrus was pretty little.

[315] Really quick.

[316] In your mind, were you like, oh, that's close.

[317] Yes.

[318] I totally was.

[319] Southern Hemisphere.

[320] No, no, 17 hours between the two.

[321] Oh, boy.

[322] No, it was crazy.

[323] Right.

[324] So, no, it was a nightmare.

[325] Cyrus was really little So we all went together He was there with us for about a week And then he left And was a very far away For five weeks Came back for two Then was a very far away For another five And that was rough That was rough That took us a long time To recover from And we learned that we can't do that again But I mean we learned the hard way That was just brutal I don't know If you watch the Bill Gates documentary On Netflix It's like three part It's amazing I bet it is.

[326] Can't recommend it enough.

[327] But they're interviewing Melinda at one point, and she said, you know, there just became this point where I'm sitting in this gigantic house by myself with our kid.

[328] Yeah.

[329] And I'm like, I can't do this.

[330] Like, I don't know what to tell you.

[331] I know you're running the biggest company in the world, but this is a deal breaker for me. Right, right.

[332] And you've got to figure this out.

[333] And to his credit, he did.

[334] He like completely changed his, you know, role in the company and everything else.

[335] I can't do it.

[336] Yeah.

[337] I mean, maybe some people can.

[338] It seems doubtful, but just for me, I can't.

[339] So actually, this last season, we really internalized that.

[340] And we were together the whole time.

[341] Rowan was five months when we arrived.

[342] Hugh ended up taking a role on the season.

[343] Oh, that's helpful.

[344] So that was really nice.

[345] It was kind of a coincidence.

[346] Yeah, I think that was probably the best one because we were together throughout.

[347] I also love Berlin.

[348] Berlin is rad.

[349] I've not been.

[350] I've not been to either of those places, I'm embarrassed to admit.

[351] How very dare you should feel deep shame.

[352] It's pretty great.

[353] It's funny because the first place that I had been to that I thought, yeah, I could live here.

[354] Oh, really?

[355] Like more than London, even where we share a language and where my husband is from.

[356] But it felt a lot like New York in the 80s, actually.

[357] Which is where I grew up.

[358] Yes.

[359] Which is where we're, which is where we're going.

[360] I was really curious.

[361] It's hard for me to imagine what a childhood in Manhattan is like.

[362] And my first thought is, are you ever turned loose in that city?

[363] Or can you be?

[364] Yeah, it was interesting.

[365] So my parents had been artists.

[366] They met at Rhode Island School Design.

[367] My mom was a textile designer out of school for 10 years.

[368] My dad was a photographer.

[369] And they moved to the Bowery at first.

[370] And then my dad's mom died.

[371] when he was very young.

[372] So he had this inheritance money that he came into in his early 20s and he used it to buy a building on Crosby Street with another couple and they still own it today.

[373] Oh, no kidding.

[374] And that's where we grew up.

[375] But, you know, you had to legally be an artist to live in Soho at the time.

[376] Oh, really?

[377] Yes.

[378] How would you prove that?

[379] A lot of people lied.

[380] I hope, yeah.

[381] I think it was fairly easy to cheat.

[382] But that, you know, it was the intention.

[383] That was the design and the factories were actively closing down and I remember our dining room chairs which my mom eventually spray painted were being kind of jettisoned from a factory on Crosby and we were rolling them down the street and I thought we were stealing them and I was so embarrassed I was so embarrassed but all of our furniture was found like that like our shelves were crates and my dad collected old signs.

[384] But, you know, my cousins who lived in New Jersey, I was so covetous of their, like, cul -de -sac and their carpet and their basement with their video getting.

[385] Like, that just seemed like...

[386] Riding bicycles in the street.

[387] Heaven.

[388] So, yeah, but then when I became ten, it started to turn and I thought, oh, I think this is cool.

[389] This might be cool.

[390] But, like, Boscow lived in a building and Kearing was around.

[391] I mean, yeah, it was really...

[392] Where, like, you had met him?

[393] Yeah, well, I remember him from the elevator when I was a little girl.

[394] Right.

[395] And he was very sweet.

[396] He was.

[397] He was very nice.

[398] We still have a hula hoop of it.

[399] You have Mascuia's hula hoop?

[400] Well, we did for a long time.

[401] I'll give you $1 ,100 for it.

[402] And we felt like a drawing that we sold for a refrigerator.

[403] Oh.

[404] But, yeah, I mean, it was.

[405] And I remember there were limos everywhere for a while, and you didn't know if they were, like, drug dealers in there or art dealers, probably both.

[406] The art scene in the 80s, and if that's what was populating all of the, you know, your neighbors and everything, I mean, this is a very like bohemian drug using, were you aware of that on any level or was just normal?

[407] This whole thing was normal.

[408] Well, it was pretty, New York was still raw at that point.

[409] I mean, we were still actively recovering from the 70s when I think it was at one of its like blackest points.

[410] Right.

[411] But yeah, I remember being really scared and seeing some just nasty, nasty.

[412] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[413] My mom used to take us there.

[414] But, yeah, we went in 82, 83, 84.

[415] And, yeah, as soon as it was like the sun went down and you were walking through Times Square.

[416] Like, my mom was like squeezing our hands.

[417] Yes.

[418] Yeah.

[419] Yeah, like really usuring us through to get back.

[420] It's such a different city.

[421] It's mind blowing from the one I used to visit as a kid.

[422] It's crazy.

[423] It's crazy.

[424] I mean, it's very pleasant.

[425] I love it.

[426] You can get a croissant anywhere at any time.

[427] Perfectly flaky.

[428] But like our parking lot is now.

[429] the Crosby Hotel.

[430] It's just really funny.

[431] Oh, wow.

[432] And so when you had friends, were you allowed at, what age were you allowed to, like, New York was not a residential area.

[433] It's still not.

[434] Okay.

[435] But there was no grocery store.

[436] There was no park.

[437] But I still have friends from the neighborhood whose parents were also artists.

[438] And then my dad ended up being a contractor, because then they had Asa, my older brother, was seven years older, and then they had me. And, you know, so he became a contractor.

[439] My mom ran a toddler school from our loft called Crosby Kids.

[440] So that was a very weird way to grow up.

[441] I mean, like Soho aside.

[442] Yeah.

[443] Were you jealous?

[444] Yeah.

[445] So here's the thing.

[446] So my mom was the eldest of five, and she was four and a half years older than all the other kids who were then born in very quick succession, like a year apart.

[447] And she kind of recreated that dynamic, right?

[448] Right.

[449] And obviously it was very different because I wasn't really responsible for these kids, but they were in my space.

[450] They were there before I left for school and they were there after I arrived back from school and I know a lot of nursery rhymes and I would tuck them all into their cots and my brother and I both learned recently that we both like would secretly drink apple juice from bottles because that was designated for the kids.

[451] Yeah.

[452] Yeah.

[453] Is that way to get even?

[454] Yeah.

[455] Or just to fuse with the kids that my mom was taking care of a little bit.

[456] Yeah, I would have been really really.

[457] jealous that my mother's attention was going to other kids it was hard yeah it'd be like having 30 younger brothers and sisters yeah so did she didn't start it when you were of that no I she started when I was four like the exact age that she was I mean look my mom is a truly an amazing mother and I just think it's really interesting that it's like to the number right so yeah I grew up in a oh I see she was more even trying to recreate what she had for you I think not herself I well both I think both I think both I think both I think That is fascinating.

[458] How long for, like, your whole life?

[459] Well, then I started acting.

[460] So I was 12 when I had an agent, but I got an agent, but I had been acting a little bit before then.

[461] And you did a Dudley Moore pilot at 13?

[462] That was my first.

[463] That's so great.

[464] I was 12.

[465] That was my first job.

[466] And now I'm a huge fan of Arthur.

[467] It's probably still in my top three comedies ever made.

[468] Did you have any awareness of who that man was?

[469] I had no idea who Dudley Moore was.

[470] Okay.

[471] I also had no idea what comedy was.

[472] Oh, sure.

[473] None.

[474] Yeah, were you guys watching a lot of TV in this house?

[475] Yes, we were watching a lot of TV, and my parents were really not that careful about what we were ingesting.

[476] I mean, they exposed us to everything, basically.

[477] I mean, they were careful in that they held art in obviously very high regard, and yeah, we were steeped in culture.

[478] We were living in New York, and we were surrounded by these really wonderfully talented.

[479] talented, eccentric characters and all that.

[480] But it's so funny.

[481] Because I was obsessed with all the John Hughes movies, obviously.

[482] Footloose was my favorite movie.

[483] I would watch that.

[484] That's not John Hughes, I know.

[485] But on a loop when I was five, like over and over and over and over again.

[486] I got to show my girls that movie.

[487] That's a great idea.

[488] Oh, it's so good.

[489] But my son, you know, he's seven.

[490] He can barely watch Spy Kids the cartoon.

[491] Yep.

[492] You know, it's just funny.

[493] Spy Kids, the cartoon is too provocative.

[494] for him.

[495] Oh, okay.

[496] Yeah, yeah.

[497] Oh, yeah.

[498] So my grandfather, who I was his movie watching buddy, he took me to Scarface when I was six years old.

[499] Right.

[500] I remember seeing Wall Street when I was seven in the theater, or eight or something.

[501] I remember seeing, like, Sophie's Choice when I was nine, and that was when I knew I needed to be an actor or accidental tourist or something when I was a little, or like.

[502] Last Tango in Paris.

[503] Yes, like, it just, and my parents were, I think it was a generational thing too.

[504] I think as my mom says, Claire, it was the 70s.

[505] Right.

[506] Right.

[507] And they grew up in the 50s, which was very repressive.

[508] Look, I'm really glad for it.

[509] I think ultimately I was much better for that approach than certainly the opposite one.

[510] But did you ever crave?

[511] Like, it feels like it always backfires, right?

[512] So if you've got like a very square household, the kids like just longing for some chaos and some color and some vibrance and eccentricity.

[513] But if you grow up in that, Do you crave like normalcy?

[514] I was a structure fiend.

[515] So you did kind of crave a little bit, maybe more traditional.

[516] Yes, yes, yes, but, you know.

[517] Where you didn't have a preschool in your living room.

[518] Yeah.

[519] Well, it wasn't dobsick in the elevator.

[520] I sure he left a Hulu behind, but there were other layers.

[521] Do you think that you sought out acting because it was a niche that was yours, whereas we're sharing so much?

[522] in your space with all these other kids.

[523] That's such an interesting question.

[524] That's a really interesting question.

[525] I don't think so.

[526] Okay, big miss. No, no. It was a good insight.

[527] But, no, I had danced, actually, with this woman, Ellen Robbins, who now teaches my son, which is pretty cool.

[528] And people would come to her class looking for young talent, and I was pretty hammy.

[529] and I would get their attention and would often get cast and these super like avant -garde productions on the Lower East Side.

[530] Sure.

[531] Dealing with hot topics like abortion.

[532] Sure.

[533] And so I did a bit of that, you know, with people on stilts around me and loved it.

[534] And I just knew I wanted to do this thing.

[535] Like from the age of five, I just knew, and I don't know why.

[536] I knew, but I did.

[537] When people asked me what I wanted to do, I said I wanted to be an actor.

[538] And then somebody told me, I guess around the age of, like, 10 or nine or something, that most actors actually didn't make that much money, which I found concerning.

[539] Yeah, well, sure, sure.

[540] Manhattan's a very expensive place to live.

[541] It's a competitive environment.

[542] So I thought, okay, well, maybe I should rethink this.

[543] I thought, okay, I'm going to be a therapist, and I'm going to do acting workshops on the side.

[544] Great.

[545] And I was going to live next door to my best friend, Ariel, and we were going to have a joint pool.

[546] And then we would have slides in our respective yards that would go into said pool.

[547] Oh, fun.

[548] So, yeah.

[549] Did you do that?

[550] It was going to be good.

[551] Can I add something?

[552] The odds of you making enough money as a psychologist are actually 1 ,000th as possible as an actor.

[553] But what's amazing is that Ariel is still my best friend.

[554] Sadly, we don't live that proximate to each other that we can share a pool.

[555] And she's a therapist.

[556] She is.

[557] Yes.

[558] Oh, wow.

[559] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[560] We've all been there.

[561] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[562] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an lucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[563] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[564] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[565] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[566] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[567] Follow Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[568] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[569] What's up, guys?

[570] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[571] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[572] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[573] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[574] And I don't mean just friends.

[575] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[576] The list goes on.

[577] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[578] This is Kiki Pong.

[579] on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[580] All right.

[581] So Dudley Moore, just really quick.

[582] Oh, right.

[583] Having not seen Arthur.

[584] Yeah.

[585] He just was a short English gentleman.

[586] Yes.

[587] And was he?

[588] He was very charming.

[589] He had a hard time remembering his lines.

[590] Sure, sure, sure.

[591] I don't know if it's because he was very drunk.

[592] He wore lifts.

[593] He had a grand piano in his dressing room.

[594] So cool.

[595] And he played it all the time.

[596] And he was very warm.

[597] And he was very warm.

[598] And, and And in bide?

[599] Yeah, probably.

[600] Yeah, yeah.

[601] I didn't know.

[602] But it was absurd.

[603] Okay, so my so -called life.

[604] You were 13 when you got it?

[605] I was 13 when I did the pilot.

[606] It did not get picked up.

[607] Oh.

[608] I went back to high school.

[609] I went to high school.

[610] Uh -huh.

[611] And then like a month in to my first semester, they said, oh, wait, no, we are going to pick it up.

[612] Oh, wow.

[613] And then we shot 19 episodes, and then it was canceled.

[614] So we didn't even get it to the end of that first season.

[615] Which is kind of crazy considering how, all known that show.

[616] Yeah, because it re -ran.

[617] It had a few afterlives on different networks, but it was the first freaks and weeks.

[618] It kind of was.

[619] It kind of was.

[620] But it was picked up by MTV, which played it on a loop.

[621] I think that's where I saw it probably.

[622] And so it seemed like it went on for longer than it did.

[623] So you were 14 when you shot the series.

[624] Yes.

[625] Okay, so you were 14 and you guys, who moved to Santa Monica?

[626] The whole gang?

[627] Well, my brother was, as I said, was seven years older.

[628] So he was in college at this point.

[629] Uh -huh.

[630] He was at Oberlin.

[631] And...

[632] He was 21, Monica.

[633] Uh -huh.

[634] And my dad's business happened to fold, and my mom was ready to do something else.

[635] So it kind of worked out well for our family.

[636] But we were so green.

[637] We didn't know what was going on.

[638] And we arrived literally the day after those massive earthquakes.

[639] Yeah, the Northridge.

[640] In The Northridge earthquakes, literally the day after, which was just too potent of a metaphor.

[641] So we've experienced all these aftershocks, and everybody was ashen.

[642] I mean, everybody was just traumatized.

[643] And we were like, hi!

[644] Yeah, so it was a strange way to arrive.

[645] That's really bizarre, because I, too, landed in Santa Barbara the day after.

[646] Oh, really?

[647] And even in Santa Barbara, I felt an after shock that was quite significant.

[648] Yeah, yeah.

[649] Yeah.

[650] I mean, not kind of, oh, well, this is a little bit like the subway rumbling.

[651] And I remember my dad was really defiant.

[652] He would, like, sprawl out on the couch, like he was going to take it on.

[653] And my mom and I were hovering under the, you know, in the doorway or whatever, like we were told to.

[654] Was there one of your two parents that you were more likely to bro out with?

[655] They both did.

[656] They both put in way too many hours driving around with their ma 'am.

[657] Thomas Guide.

[658] Thomas Guide.

[659] Yeah, yeah.

[660] My parents still are in Santa Monica.

[661] They never left.

[662] So my mom went back to art school, to grad school, a place called Otis in her 50s.

[663] And now it's amazing.

[664] They live in a little bungalow, but on a big plot of land.

[665] My dad built their two studios, and they make art in the backyard, and they show together.

[666] And so it's like, it's full circle.

[667] And they have a yurt in the backyard where we stay.

[668] It's really fun.

[669] Oh, fun.

[670] Oh, really?

[671] Is it comfortable in the yurt?

[672] It's great.

[673] Oh, good.

[674] It's so great.

[675] Is it?

[676] Yes.

[677] He doesn't stay in the yurt.

[678] We stay in there.

[679] Oh, okay.

[680] He stays right next to Nana and Grandpa and then crawls in the bed with him and gets to like do everything he's not supposed to do.

[681] Oh, isn't that the greatest part of grandma and grandpa?

[682] Just watch all the videos and everything.

[683] So that show being very young, did you feel confident doing that or did you feel overwhelmed or what was the like experience that young shooting?

[684] Kind of both.

[685] It helped in some ways that I was as clueless as I was.

[686] But I also felt like, you know, I had done a few movie of the weeks.

[687] I had done a lot of student films before that.

[688] You know, so there's part of me that was like, I got this.

[689] And then there was part of me that was like, I do not get this.

[690] Which is how I still feel to this day.

[691] And I was like being tutored on set.

[692] That was also really weird.

[693] Going back to high school and making sense of those two identities was stressful.

[694] I don't miss that.

[695] Right.

[696] Is it true that you had your first real -life kiss on that show, or is that not true?

[697] That's not true.

[698] Okay.

[699] But it is true that it was a more involved kiss than I'd ever had.

[700] And there were stage directions that said I was supposed to kiss Jordan Catalano's face, like a part, like not his lips.

[701] Okay.

[702] And I didn't understand that.

[703] I still don't as you say it.

[704] What does that mean?

[705] Like his chin?

[706] And so Jared had to explain.

[707] that to me and he was 21 which was very embarrassing well yeah I just want to just talk about the real life dynamic of you being 14 and 21 I just I think currently in the current climate is that even allowed a 21 year old to make out of the 14 year I think so it's still cool I guess okay I don't know I don't have a position on it in the land of make believe yes I'm just trying to imagine like my daughter's getting into acting and then like my first visit to sat I meet fucking mike who's 22 and has an apart He's like, really looking forward to making out with Delta today.

[708] I just, and I'm very pro -sex and all, but just the age gap would really, I mean, that's, you're talking seven years.

[709] Yeah.

[710] Did you think he was the cutest person alive?

[711] He was very attractive.

[712] Oh, he's objectively.

[713] He was in the Noxema commercials at that point.

[714] That was the high bar.

[715] Big deal.

[716] Oh, what's her name with the curly hair was in them?

[717] Oh, I know who you're talking.

[718] Rebecca Gayheart?

[719] Gayheart.

[720] Oh, wow.

[721] Nice.

[722] Boom.

[723] Yes, Rebecca Gayhart.

[724] Yes.

[725] I mean, I was in love with someone from a commercial.

[726] Those were very high -end commercials.

[727] They were high on commercials.

[728] Yeah.

[729] So if he was in a noxima, that's the pinnacle.

[730] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[731] So did you have a real -life crush on him or was he too old?

[732] No, he was way too old.

[733] I was way too terrified.

[734] Right.

[735] It was very fraternal.

[736] Like, and he was actually pretty protective of me. I think I made it clear to.

[737] Yeah.

[738] From the beginning.

[739] That this wasn't that kind of kind of 14 -year -old.

[740] Right, right, right.

[741] Yeah, but he took me to my first club.

[742] You were the kind of 14 -year -old that was 14.

[743] I was truly 14.

[744] He took you to a nightclub, though?

[745] He did.

[746] God, I wanted to be the, what do you call it, room?

[747] Whiskey, no. Viper room?

[748] Yes, the Vipar Room.

[749] Is it the Viper Room?

[750] It was something like that.

[751] Sure, sure.

[752] But I remember Leo was there and Stephen Dorff was there, and there was like a whole Leo Stephen thing.

[753] Oh, the whole gang.

[754] Oh, and they were not.

[755] There was a fight?

[756] Well, no. Okay.

[757] It was a, he's at that table, he's at that table.

[758] I remember that drama.

[759] That is so fun.

[760] Mm -hmm.

[761] I remember that drama.

[762] That is so great.

[763] So were you sad when it got canceled?

[764] Yeah, but I felt kind of jerked around by the show because it had not gotten picked up and then it did get picked up.

[765] And then we were canceled before we even finish.

[766] I just was like.

[767] And you have boundaries.

[768] You're like, look, I don't want to play this bullshit.

[769] I don't know.

[770] It was stressful.

[771] It was stressful.

[772] My heart had been broken a couple of times.

[773] So at that point, I was a bit calloused, I think.

[774] So did it help that you got nominated and?

[775] for an Emmy for that.

[776] Yeah, I mean, all of that was just very surprising.

[777] First job as a Lee, really?

[778] I was just so dizzy from it all.

[779] And did both parents take you to the Emmys or one or the other?

[780] Or did you, who was your date?

[781] I don't remember who my date was.

[782] I remember going to the Oscars with my dad when I presented when I was like 17 or something.

[783] And Mohamed Ali was sitting in front of us and he was.

[784] Losing a shit.

[785] Yeah, yeah.

[786] So I remember being pleased that I could give that to him, you know.

[787] Yeah.

[788] So you got nominated.

[789] Even though the show got canceled, then all kinds of things start opening up, right?

[790] So, was little women first after that?

[791] Yeah, that was first, yeah.

[792] So I did that straight after my so -called life.

[793] Yeah.

[794] Have you seen the new one?

[795] I haven't.

[796] I really want to.

[797] I heard it's great.

[798] I know.

[799] I'm a big Greta Gerwig fan.

[800] Me too.

[801] Yeah, I was trying to imagine how I would feel about having been in a movie that was remade.

[802] And I feel like probably good.

[803] You make little women, you assume.

[804] It's going to be remade.

[805] Yeah.

[806] I like if the Star Wars chaos was furious.

[807] I'm talking about a new star.

[808] You can't make a new one.

[809] I'm in my 50s.

[810] This is my classic, bitch.

[811] Yeah, yeah.

[812] Hands off, this century's old master piece.

[813] But the big thing, and certainly the first time I became abundantly aware of you because I had not watched that show when it aired was Romeo and Juliet.

[814] How do you end up getting that job?

[815] What were your thoughts as you were?

[816] I auditioned a lot.

[817] Did you know who Leonardo DiCaprio?

[818] She saw him at the viper room or whatever, yeah.

[819] No, no, I was a big Leo fan.

[820] Okay, great.

[821] Starting with what's eating Gilbert grape?

[822] Even, like, what was before?

[823] Oh, he was in the Tobias Wolf book.

[824] It was this boy's life.

[825] This boy's life.

[826] This boy's life, man. And like from that point on, basketball diaries?

[827] Oh!

[828] He was amazing in that.

[829] He was unreal.

[830] Unreal in that.

[831] Yeah, I was mad, mad impressed by his skills.

[832] with a Z. Yeah, I guess I just remember auditioning a lot.

[833] And then finally auditioned with him and it worked.

[834] You kept your shit together.

[835] Yeah.

[836] And Baz wanted to make as alive and fresh and accessible version of that story as he could tell.

[837] And my sensibility kind of suited that interpretation.

[838] And I think Leo and my acting styles were.

[839] Sympadico?

[840] Yeah.

[841] Yeah.

[842] And you were what?

[843] You're 17 and he was 21?

[844] Is that?

[845] I was 16 and he was 21.

[846] I turned 17 when we filmed.

[847] Did you, I'm having a memory that that was shot in Mexico City or something?

[848] Very good.

[849] It was.

[850] Yes.

[851] Okay.

[852] So to go to Mexico City and now you have like a hotel room and per diem and you're in a foreign city.

[853] Creatively, I was just in heaven.

[854] You could also drink when you're 17 in Mexico.

[855] I'm not asking if you did it.

[856] Yeah, I was not, I drank like twice on that movie.

[857] Oh really?

[858] Because I was a kid.

[859] I didn't really, I wasn't really practiced at this.

[860] Okay.

[861] Yeah, there was one time when I got too drunk.

[862] Uh -huh.

[863] That's the goal in Mexico.

[864] Then I didn't get drunk again.

[865] Okay.

[866] I was a child, really.

[867] Like I was not a drinker.

[868] But not to, I mean, a lot of people at that age are.

[869] Well, I went to Cancun on Spring Break at 16.

[870] Yeah.

[871] And I drink all the stuff.

[872] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[873] Yeah, no, I think I was too busy working and I didn't know how to be a drinker.

[874] I just want you to know, because I would hate for you to think that I only ask female guesses.

[875] Male guests, too, I want to know so bad if they fell in love with the person they worked with.

[876] I would have fallen in love with him.

[877] I was so smitten with him as an actor then.

[878] I think it was crushy for sure, but it was also a little bit like the Jared.

[879] Like, that was just never going to happen like I didn't like with the drinking like I didn't know how to go about that yeah and he was already in the business for like eight years so he was in the business and partying and having a good time and we're really different people right I mean I remember at one point he just was so frustrated and said how can you be so still and I said how can you be so active but like he is as a very kind of frenetic energy and I am not you know that I can be like really focused and I guess on set especially like very centered Do people read that as you being not friendly or not?

[880] I think they can.

[881] I think they can read it that way I've never mean to communicate that Right.

[882] And sometimes I worry about it being a lead actor and I think I should be setting the tone more performative or I mean I think I probably do set the tone by default that's just the tone I set yeah but I think there is real value in having the number one call sheet person be more gregarious and like a morale captain yeah yeah yeah and I don't know I don't like naturally excel at that but I really want to be in a healthy environment and I want to be decent and expect decency around me and stuff so i think that is a good thing that can radiate but yeah but yeah but i but i'm in some conflict about that like oh god i should be better at being the cheerleader yeah right and um when that movie you must have been delighted with how it turned out right it was yeah it was because what had boz lerman done before that that was certainly the most thing i'd ever seen he did strictly ballroom oh right right he is a real genius and an tour and has this kind of incredibly comprehensive fantastic understanding of not only the story but like the world the world yeah yeah he seems to be like a master of the world yeah yeah and he's very operatic in his temperament and in his style as you know as a filmmaker so had you mentally prepared for that movie the results of the movie not the process i no i had not it was tough because i then suddenly famous right right yeah yeah And I didn't know what to make of that.

[883] You can't really practice for it.

[884] No. No. And it's awfully young to be famous.

[885] Yeah, and I didn't have any reference point.

[886] I wasn't of it.

[887] You know, my family just kind of stumbled into this culture.

[888] And we were all trying to make sense of it in real time.

[889] And I kind of couldn't keep up with the pace of it.

[890] And I was given a lot of opportunity really quickly, but was just unformed as a human.

[891] Well, when I was that age, I would stare in the mirror before I went to high school.

[892] and I'd be having a full -fledged panic attack about how my hair looked and I wanted to cut it all off and then I was really wrestling with just leaving the house without any attention.

[893] Yeah, I think I was too.

[894] And I wasn't able to do a lot of socializing that you typically are forced to do no matter how miserable it is in high school.

[895] And I think that was to my detriment.

[896] So that was really why I went back to college.

[897] Well, really could we get your detriment in what way?

[898] You feel like you missed out like some social training or something?

[899] Yeah, and I had a really terrible.

[900] terrible time in middle school, which I think most girls do.

[901] But for whatever reason, I really struggled and was like really bullied by a certain kind of girl, archetypical girl, in three different schools.

[902] I think they were a little troubled, these girls.

[903] And I really don't know.

[904] I really don't know.

[905] But I really got smaller and smaller over the course of those years.

[906] And I developed a real phobia of girls honestly um and it was really good for me to go back to college and realize that we all mature and we move through that heinous stage yeah and we feel you know less wildly insecure and murderous about it so yeah i needed to to work through some of that now is it true that after that movie i hope this is true that you got offered titanic i think i did okay i'm not entirely clear on that sure but i was there was interesting there was there's strong interest but honestly like i just made this romantic epic with leo in mexico city which is where they were going to shoot titanic right and i i just didn't have it in me right and i remember leo and i shared a manager at the time and um we were there at the office and i was on a balcony which is funny with your arms spread wide open with wings on which is super weird um no And Leo had this, like, rental red convertible, some, like, hot roddy car.

[907] Sure, sure, sure.

[908] And he was kind of doing not, like, he was kind of going in circles or like in the parking lot.

[909] And I knew he was wrestling with the decision to do that movie or not.

[910] And he just looked up at me and he said, I'm doing it.

[911] I'm doing it.

[912] After some donuts, he figured out.

[913] Yeah, like, he did some donuts.

[914] To clear his head.

[915] And I could see he wasn't.

[916] Sure, you know, but he was like, fuck it, I got to do this thing.

[917] Yeah.

[918] And I looked down on him going, like, I totally understand why you are doing that.

[919] Yeah.

[920] And I'm not ready for that.

[921] And I think I really wasn't ready for it.

[922] And I remember after that movie came out, and he just went, oh, my God, into another stratosphere.

[923] And remember, I went to the premiere of The Man and the Iron Mask.

[924] And when he, like, walked into the room, like, the floor fell in his direction.

[925] Like, all, everybody in the room just went towards him.

[926] Yeah.

[927] And it was a little scary, you know?

[928] And I just thought, ee.

[929] I think I may have sensed that I was courting that, or I was proximate or, you know, and I just couldn't do it.

[930] So it was, yeah.

[931] I didn't want it.

[932] That's interesting.

[933] So, and now when the movie then gets made and it's.

[934] the biggest movie of all time.

[935] Do you have regret about it or you're like, no, no, no, I chose right.

[936] Zero regret.

[937] I envy that peace of mind.

[938] I was just really clear about it.

[939] I wasn't conflicted.

[940] I wasn't.

[941] But were the people in your life who are like managing your future going like, you know.

[942] But I was just feeling eager to have different creative experiences.

[943] That felt like a repeat.

[944] And as I said, I think it was going to propel me towards something that I knew I didn't have the resources to cope with and I knew I had to do like a lot of foundation building.

[945] That's crazy smart of you at 17 to have recognized that in yourself because if you're as you said imagining and dreaming about becoming an actor since you're five or six and it's like well that's the apex you're about to go right to the apex of that Jim Cameron in this outrageous movie and then to have the self -knowledge to go like that's not going to feel good is just kind of a crazy conviction for us 17 year old to have.

[946] I would have been Leo, man. I would have been fucking doing donuts in my red rental car.

[947] You would not have been doing donuts.

[948] You would have said yes so quickly immediately.

[949] You would never have had to think about it.

[950] I wouldn't have needed to even do the donuts.

[951] But also I would have been doing donuts in a red rental car.

[952] I also think that we kind of know what our line is.

[953] And I knew that this wasn't on my line.

[954] That's good.

[955] Yeah.

[956] It's really good.

[957] You didn't even go to high school, right?

[958] You were just that you were getting...

[959] I was enrolled technically at a place called Elisa Franca here in L .A., which was the only private school.

[960] that would accept kid actors.

[961] Someone who never showed up.

[962] Because in New York, it was sort of impressive and cool, but in L .A., we were a dime a dozen and we were only annoying and disruptive.

[963] So was getting into Yale at an issue, or was it easy?

[964] I didn't do that well.

[965] I did fine on my S &Ts.

[966] I didn't get a score that would justify me going to Yale, but my extracurriculars were pretty impressive, and I wrote some good essays.

[967] But also, my grandfather was Dean of Art and Architecture at Yale, and my dad grew up in New Haven, which was not why I got in, I don't think, but it was a nice thing for me. Did you talk about that in your interview?

[968] I didn't.

[969] I did not.

[970] You're so ethical.

[971] You're like the person whose dad's a cop and you get pulled over and you don't mention it.

[972] No, no, it wasn't ethical.

[973] But I always kind of knew I wanted to go there, actually, because of my grandfather.

[974] I would have worn your grandpa's old sweatshirt that said yell on it and been like, just wearing my grandpa's old sweatshirt.

[975] He was the dean of arts.

[976] You and I are so not alike.

[977] It's really fun for me, because even in my...

[978] I know, yeah, of course.

[979] I do too, but my projecting is just never...

[980] It's not landing anywhere.

[981] That's what I like.

[982] Did you also have some like crazy financial confidence?

[983] Because I would...

[984] Here's what I would have been.

[985] Because I'm sure you didn't pay shit for Romeo and Juliet.

[986] But I'm sure after that, they probably started throwing real money towards you when these offers came in.

[987] Did you not have a fear of financial insecurity?

[988] Like, I better just go grab.

[989] grab that money right now to be sad.

[990] I was a child and I had so much money.

[991] Like how much more money could I possibly imagine?

[992] Yeah, yeah.

[993] Never mind want, you know?

[994] Like, like, I mean, I remember Ariel and I when we were 10, we would like think about money strictly in terms like how much we could get from the gap with it.

[995] I was still closer to that mind frame than, you know.

[996] So you're like, yeah, I could buy the whole gap catalog several times.

[997] Exactly.

[998] Then you'd been told actors don't make money, but then you just did make money.

[999] Yeah, I made a lot.

[1000] You probably felt great.

[1001] You made more and a therapist did that year for sure.

[1002] Yes.

[1003] Yes.

[1004] Money was just stupid.

[1005] I mean, I was like fun house style.

[1006] Okay, so you didn't feel like, oh God, I'm going to be passing up all this money.

[1007] I didn't feel like I was.

[1008] It must feel so good to feel like you.

[1009] Oh my God.

[1010] I was.

[1011] No wonder you're not a crazy alcoholic like I was.

[1012] But I was really tiny.

[1013] I guess.

[1014] I didn't feel tiny at the time, but I was.

[1015] But it was awkward.

[1016] I mean, it was definitely awkward.

[1017] Like I had bought a loft on Worcester Street and was remodeling it.

[1018] There was nothing in it.

[1019] But my dad had been a contractor.

[1020] And so I had childhood friends, Joan and Harry, who have a firm together, an architectural firm.

[1021] And they had worked with my dad professionally.

[1022] And they had designed our loft.

[1023] They had converted it into like a nursery school home.

[1024] And so I was building this loft with my kind of surrogate mom, friend Joan, which all felt very natural, but was nutty.

[1025] Yeah, yeah.

[1026] Because I was 18.

[1027] So I would take, you know, like my Architecture 101 class and then go home on the weekends to like oversee my loft.

[1028] The building of my loft.

[1029] So it was, there were many shades of fucked up there too.

[1030] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1031] Were many, many guys trying to court you?

[1032] Well, I was very deeply involved with a guy called Ben Lee.

[1033] We were like, we were living together.

[1034] No, no, he's still Benley.

[1035] He lives in L .A. now.

[1036] You said called.

[1037] Oh, no, because he's, no, no, he's Australian.

[1038] And also my husband's English.

[1039] So you say he's not named Benley.

[1040] He's called Benley.

[1041] So I've appropriated that.

[1042] It's affected and annoying.

[1043] I got you.

[1044] But when you hear it from our.

[1045] American ears, forgive us.

[1046] It sounds weird.

[1047] It's like, you used to be called then.

[1048] Yeah, I know.

[1049] Anyway, so I was like not going to college for that reason.

[1050] I was there to learn.

[1051] I was nerdier than any kid in that school, which was ridiculous because there were a lot of nerds.

[1052] It really attracts nerds.

[1053] We love Yale.

[1054] My God, I'm so jealous.

[1055] We're unifiles.

[1056] Yeah, we're obsessed with fancy colleges.

[1057] I didn't finish.

[1058] I went for two years, and I, you know, so that's all I got.

[1059] But I feel like her two years at Yale's more impressive than our finishing college.

[1060] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1061] Did you graduate?

[1062] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1063] Well, you win.

[1064] No, I don't think so.

[1065] No. What did you major in?

[1066] Well, I didn't have to major because I only went for two years.

[1067] But you were going to get psychology.

[1068] Well, I thought I was, but then I realized that what I meant by psychology was, in fact, English because I was frustrated by psychology ultimately.

[1069] It's also like a baby field.

[1070] Sure, sure.

[1071] It's only like 150 years old or something.

[1072] It was asserting itself as...

[1073] Empirical in some way?

[1074] As scientifically driven and oriented.

[1075] And I didn't think that was true.

[1076] I remember I took some class where abnormal psych or something and we had to write an essay every week.

[1077] And there was some controversial subject that we had to say was either good or bad.

[1078] and every week I would say well the data is inconclusive I just don't think we can say and I would get penalized I'd get punished for it and I just thought this is no like we can manipulate these numbers any way we choose and do you know I would imagine you know a ton about psychology at this point first from having an interest in it as a kid and then also playing someone that's bipolar but you know the whole history of the DSM and how it came about no no tell me oh my god tell me tell me so there and I'll forget the name but what We'll say it in the fact check.

[1079] There was an English guy who came to America specifically to expose how bad the state of psychiatry was in the U .S. And what he did is he deployed like six or eight people and they had to go into a clinic and all they were allowed to say is I hear the sound thump in my head.

[1080] And then once they were admitted, they could only tell the truth.

[1081] So the only lie was I hear the sound thump in my head.

[1082] And these were generally the people participating where other students and whatnot.

[1083] And they got a myriad of diagnoses, right?

[1084] Like schizophrenic, just a huge barrage of different, very, very serious mental health ailments.

[1085] And then he published this and the whole community, the American Psychology Associates, they said, well, we need to do something about this, right?

[1086] So they decided to come up with a standardized test, which became the DSM.

[1087] Okay.

[1088] And the DSM is a questionnaire that a computer can read and tell you basically what you have.

[1089] but one of the fallouts of like, say, the first DSM is if you give it to people, what you find is that probably 80 % of the country has a mental illness.

[1090] So their conclusion was either, well, mental illness is pandemic or the DSM isn't really getting us what we want.

[1091] And there's now been several iterations of the DSM.

[1092] And I don't take a position on it.

[1093] But it's a fascinating history.

[1094] But there was one psychologist who really took umbrage with what this guy did.

[1095] And he said, and I want to say, but I always say this, that he worked at Johns Hopkins, but he said, send me somebody a fake to the clinic, and I will tell you who the fake is.

[1096] And he agreed to this, and they said at some point in the next month, I'll send one in.

[1097] And at the end of the month, John Hopkins guy said, it's this person.

[1098] And he said, I didn't send anybody.

[1099] So it was kind of like his double trick was to not even send anyone.

[1100] Yeah, there's a fascinating documentary about it.

[1101] But at any rate, so you were like, this might be.

[1102] We might be still early in this science before we...

[1103] I was also a sophomore in undergrad.

[1104] Yeah, I mean, as I said, I have a disproportionate number of therapists to friends as well.

[1105] And I strongly believe in therapy.

[1106] I love the therapy.

[1107] Yeah, yeah.

[1108] I love it.

[1109] You started young, yeah?

[1110] Yeah, what age?

[1111] Six.

[1112] Six.

[1113] I am a New Yorker, so...

[1114] Right.

[1115] It's kind of a birthright, yeah.

[1116] When there was a problem, we went to therapy.

[1117] I saw ghosts and...

[1118] And I think I was also, I was developing sort of OCD patterns, but there was a gargoyle who lived on our pipes in our loft and would make me do things, like maintain a contorted position for 20 minutes at a time.

[1119] And I couldn't take a shower alone because demons were coming out of the showerhead.

[1120] And it got pretty extreme.

[1121] That's a lot to juggle that age.

[1122] And so my mom took me to Gideon and he kind of helped me work through that.

[1123] Okay, so what's really interesting is when Monica suggested that you had maybe been drawn to acting because you wanted a thing of your own, I was wondering if you were drawn to acting because you have total control.

[1124] See, I don't know.

[1125] I think that it doesn't come from like a pathology.

[1126] You know, I don't think it comes from like meeting a need that should have been met in life and that wasn't being met or something.

[1127] I was just a really keen, close, avid, hungry observer.

[1128] And I just really always was deeply, deeply interested in human beings.

[1129] And I had no patience for cartoons when I was a kid.

[1130] I didn't want to waste my time with an abstracted image.

[1131] I wanted to look at actors in real space and time.

[1132] And I got really lost in those details.

[1133] honest to God, my first memory of acting was when I was about three.

[1134] I must have been three.

[1135] And I was at pre -nursary school.

[1136] And there was an Indian American woman Slow who was our teacher who I loved.

[1137] And it was nap time and I was always a really bad napper.

[1138] I'm still a bad napper.

[1139] But I was a very good girl.

[1140] I'm still a very good girl.

[1141] And so I was pretending to sleep.

[1142] And I had remembered that my mom twitched in her sleep.

[1143] And so I was doing that.

[1144] And I remember thinking like, ooh, that was really subtle.

[1145] That was really nuanced.

[1146] There is no way.

[1147] Slow is going to think I'm anything other than dead asleep.

[1148] You just found the perfect speed for that twitch.

[1149] So that's still the same exercise.

[1150] It's the same practice, the same impulse.

[1151] And it didn't come from a nervous place or a frightened place or a place of needing to assert control.

[1152] It was just a natural impulse to.

[1153] mimic.

[1154] And I took real pleasure in the game of that.

[1155] Sport isn't quite right because I think it's more expansive than that.

[1156] But yeah.

[1157] And beyond that, I don't know.

[1158] Now, was it a hard decision to leave Yale?

[1159] Kind of.

[1160] I mean, I was going to do a movie that Jody Foster was going to direct like this circus movie.

[1161] And I trained for a whole summer.

[1162] Doing circus tricks?

[1163] What type?

[1164] Flying trapeze and the Spanish web.

[1165] It was here in L .A. There was a, this Mexican -American family that had been did in the circus forever and it was wonderful and they had this whole set up in the backyard in the valley that was so hot.

[1166] And I got so into it and very strong which was, you know, not the point but especially from the Spanish web which was my favorite.

[1167] What's the Spanish web?

[1168] It's when you have these two pieces of cloth and you climb them and then you tie knots and then you kind of flip down.

[1169] One of Monica's best friend does this, Leandra?

[1170] That's like aerial.

[1171] Yes.

[1172] She does like aerial stuff.

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] It's really, really, really fun.

[1175] We did the, you know, the wheel thing.

[1176] We did.

[1177] I did.

[1178] It was pretty, pretty varied, very across the board.

[1179] And it didn't end up happening.

[1180] So I'd taken a semester off to do that and it fell apart.

[1181] And so I, like, raced back to school with these, like, guns, incredibly defined arms that just atrophied real fast.

[1182] Yeah.

[1183] So, and just kind of got more stuff.

[1184] I really thought that I would do a movie a summer, but I kind of failed to realize how much work goes into getting work.

[1185] And I just wasn't available to read scripts or take meetings.

[1186] And that was just very idealistic of me. And like, I sort of got what I needed from college.

[1187] I met my best friends who were then graduating, you know, because I'd taken time off.

[1188] And so I started to feel a little isolated.

[1189] Did you have any fear that the window was closing of your opportunity acting wise?

[1190] maybe a little bit at that point I mean I was like 22 but I think it was more that as I said I kind of did all that socializing that I had missed out on when I was younger I kind of learned the fundamentals of reading and writing I could you know I kind of learned enough how to think critically and I had the tools that I needed to go forward and I think I also I really went into school with the question of, am I acting out of habit or choice?

[1191] You know, because this was a decision I had made a very long time ago when I was a child.

[1192] And I just wanted to give myself an opportunity in a more neutral environment.

[1193] To recommit to Amish lifestyle.

[1194] It was your rumspringer.

[1195] It was a little bit.

[1196] And then you were able to just jump back in pretty easily?

[1197] It was kind of awkward.

[1198] The first job I did was The Hours.

[1199] I had a little role on that, which was kind of dreamy.

[1200] A couple scenes with Meryl Streep.

[1201] I did a movie that I actually still really like called Igby Goes Down.

[1202] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1203] And then I made a very bad movie with Joaquin Phoenix and Sean Penn in Denmark and Sweden.

[1204] An amazing director called Thomas Vinterberg, who had created Dogma with Lars von Trier.

[1205] Like, it was very exciting.

[1206] And it didn't work for various reasons.

[1207] But I also was, I had like, hadn't acted for three years.

[1208] I was like very schoolgirl at that point.

[1209] And I forgot that acting was primarily a visceral.

[1210] More of a punk rock experience.

[1211] You know?

[1212] And yes, you have to understand the story you're telling.

[1213] And it does involve some analysis.

[1214] But that's not the critical force at play.

[1215] And so I had to remember that.

[1216] And I had lost a lot of my confidence, which I had just had in abundance.

[1217] when I was a kid.

[1218] And I don't even know why to the extent that I did.

[1219] But I became self -conscious for the first time ever as an actor, which was weird.

[1220] I was thinking way too hard about it all of a sudden.

[1221] And how long before you got your groove back?

[1222] I think that sort of curse was broken when I did Terminator 3 of all things.

[1223] Well, good, because that's one I really wanted to talk to you about.

[1224] And I was like, she's not going to want to talk about T3 because I'm going to want to.

[1225] Another actress was hired, and that didn't work.

[1226] out for whatever reason I had auditioned didn't get it then suddenly they called me and said do you want to do it and I had a night to make the decision and I just thought okay and I really did love the other two Terminator movies and was a fan of the franchise I really was but it was so immediate and it was so out of my it was just not a genre I'd ever worked within but I remember thinking like, oh, I was there to do a job.

[1227] And I had to do the job well.

[1228] I was hired because I could do the job well.

[1229] And that released me from whatever overthinking I had fell victim to.

[1230] And that loosened me way up.

[1231] Do you think part of it might have been that the machinery is so large in a movie like that it's almost distracting enough in a good way?

[1232] It's like you've got to run here.

[1233] You got to do this.

[1234] That thing's going to blow up.

[1235] And there was no artistic pretense.

[1236] Right.

[1237] You know, and like, I wasn't doing the next dogma movie with the best actors of all time in Scandinavia.

[1238] I, like, which was crippling.

[1239] And I was so grateful to that movie for that.

[1240] I had a blast, literally and figuratively.

[1241] I had a very bad haircut, but I had fun.

[1242] At the time it was being shot, it was the most expensive movie that had ever been made.

[1243] Did you know that?

[1244] I did not know that.

[1245] Yes.

[1246] I did not know that.

[1247] That's incredible.

[1248] It was stupid.

[1249] It was like going to Universal Studios every day.

[1250] That's what I would imagine.

[1251] And also, you know, Arnold is in the cult of big, right?

[1252] Everything on him and around him is oversized to a comic degree.

[1253] Yeah, he's driving up in a Hummer.

[1254] Like he would have different cars.

[1255] He would bring different cars to set just to keep him company, you know.

[1256] And there was our Mercedes tank at one point, you know, with them or the Mercedes.

[1257] sign was the size of that window or something.

[1258] And he wore a watch that was that big.

[1259] And he, like, smoke these cigars that were the size of that table.

[1260] Like, it was just absurd.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] Now, I would imagine, and again, I've been wrong almost this whole time.

[1263] So, but I would imagine Temple Grandin is now like a seminal moment, right, in your career.

[1264] Yeah.

[1265] So my first thought in this, again is so shallow of me but I do you you probably don't you do you have any commitment anxiety in general in life I don't know so my first thought was like okay if I were to sign on to a movie like that I would I got to get to know this person and then I would already be at the I'm going to have to break up with this person at some point like I'm going to have to befriend this person and then I'm going to move on to another movie and I would already be fearing that breakup yeah that's really kind of how my brain works that's I like your brain yeah I'm trying to to head off any like hurting someone some point down the road wow wow that's so so interesting no that was not my fear but i had the faintest sense of who she was when it came my way i remember hugh and i we were in the second year of our relationship and neither of us had been working that much and we just thought you know what okay let's just have a summer let's go try traveling.

[1266] And we did.

[1267] And we had the best time.

[1268] And it started in Turkey and we wiggled our way throughout the Mediterranean.

[1269] And it just got like more and more lavish as it went along.

[1270] And, you know, and we ended up at a film festival in Iskia.

[1271] And it was just so bloated and much and excessive and amazing.

[1272] And we had no children, no thought of children.

[1273] We weren't even married.

[1274] You know, it was like, and I got this call about this project, which was a little sobering.

[1275] And it was just like so contradicted, this kind of insane chapter that I had kind of found myself in.

[1276] But yeah, so I read more about her and she's just fascinating.

[1277] And it was really scary, but she was just so much more interesting than I was terrified.

[1278] So like that tip the scales And I just thought oh fuck I have to do that And you had no fear Because another fear I would have had Oh I had plenty of fears Plenty of fears So I was going to say There were some pretty dramatic misfires With people taking on roles Oh my gosh So I did the whole movie I hadn't seen it But I remember I watched Tropic Thunder Yeah exactly And there was that parody Simple Jack That's right And I was like That's exactly where I'm going with this I remember saying to Justin Thoreau because I was kind of friends with him.

[1279] And I was like, oh my God, I think I just played simple track.

[1280] Exactly.

[1281] Exactly.

[1282] And I hadn't even occurred to me, like, you know, until I saw the worst -case scenario played out.

[1283] It's one of the best satirical, you know, comedies of the decade.

[1284] And, oh, God.

[1285] And my heart just sank.

[1286] I mean, of course, I didn't go into it with that, you know, You know, but you also just feel like she's such a vulnerable human being, right?

[1287] I mean, she could be misinterpreted in so many ways.

[1288] And you start to feel that anxiety and that vulnerability, you know, by extension.

[1289] Yeah.

[1290] And then you think, like, after the fact, like, does this look like I'm hunting for an award?

[1291] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1292] So, no, I definitely had a flicker of.

[1293] Okay, so you shot it and then saw Tropic Thunder.

[1294] Yes.

[1295] Okay, now had you seen Tropic Thunder prior to it, do you think you would have done it?

[1296] Oh, probably, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1297] I mean, I guess it helps that you, like, you met her and you.

[1298] I met her.

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] And I had two really good, well, the director was wonderful, too, and the writer was one.

[1301] I mean, the team was great.

[1302] But I also had Susan and Tamar, I mean, we worked really methodically towards breaking her down.

[1303] I had a dream when I was, I forget which came first, was it the physicality or the voice.

[1304] But anyway, I was more fluent in one part of her And I had yet to integrate the other part Like I think it was the vocal part And I had a dream where I was walking out onto a stage as her And as soon as I opened my mouth I was really literal like nothing came out Like there was this awkward period Where I had to fuse the two And I think I was like really reticent To even work through it in rehearsal And finally I just had to go for it On the first day of filming Yeah.

[1305] It felt right.

[1306] But I had a whole like check system.

[1307] Was she ever on set watching you play her?

[1308] A little bit.

[1309] Not all that often.

[1310] But yeah.

[1311] And what was her reaction to seeing you play her?

[1312] She recognized herself, which I was really, really grateful for.

[1313] And that was also very motivating, right?

[1314] Like, don't fuck this up.

[1315] Like the consequences would be pretty grave.

[1316] I wanted her to feel like it matched with her sense of self.

[1317] And I think, that was the case.

[1318] And also she seemed to have a ton of fun when you were winning awards and she was involved.

[1319] Yeah, although she's profoundly sensitive person and on a red carpet.

[1320] That's like a nightmare scenario with the flashing lights and people screaming and so I just remember thinking like get temple.

[1321] Get her inside.

[1322] Yeah, let's get her to the sea.

[1323] Yeah.

[1324] Some popcorn and then we'll but she has an amazing sense of humor and she's a scientist and she thinks of herself as material for people to break down and observe and she is you know giving of herself in that way right yeah you won you won everything for that right as i did i won all the things did you like did you like winning those things i did there was like a period where i won all the things for temple and then i won a lot of things for homeland which came pretty close after that so it was like oh my god this again which was very nice but the gift of that is that you learn that it doesn't really matter, right?

[1325] Well, you still have to brush your teeth the next morning.

[1326] Yeah, but those things are super confusing, those awards showy things.

[1327] They are validating, and it feels really good to be celebrated by your community.

[1328] But they're also this funny construct, and you made to feel like an athlete or something.

[1329] This is not why we are here doing this thing.

[1330] And there are so many of them now right like they had so many babies my wife's currently at one right yeah yeah and i don't know it's just a whole other industry now yeah and when i started like we didn't have stylists you pretty much did your own hair and makeup uh -huh like there it's put on your best blouse yes hit the runway you go to nordstrom and like and um you go to the gap yeah you get your your dream gap outfit The Kool -Ox.

[1331] You buy the marina wool sweater.

[1332] I don't mean to sound like an ingrate or anything or like a cranky old lady or something.

[1333] No, no, no. I would just imagine like that you loving, as you said, recognized for the work you did.

[1334] And then that's validating.

[1335] But then now there's this whole machinery of it that is going out, talking, doing interviews, being on a stage.

[1336] There's like the publicity machine of the whole experience.

[1337] Which I've never been that naturally gifted at.

[1338] But I had to say at that point, I had my partner Hugh.

[1339] And so to move through all of that with him was a massive gift.

[1340] Is it easy for Hugh to be married to an actor who has pretty limitless opportunities?

[1341] I don't know how limitless they are.

[1342] Well, they're pretty, you know.

[1343] I think maybe sometimes.

[1344] Here's an example.

[1345] You got to go do Homeland wherever you got to do it.

[1346] In my own life, there's been movies where, well, she can make this much or we can stay here and I can make this much.

[1347] So there's just a very, a very clean cut, clear financial yes or no, which is like, we would make more sense for this family to go to Atlanta and watch her work than to stay here and watch me work.

[1348] Right.

[1349] I think we were really lucky in that Hugh did two really great series while I did Homeland and that worked out pretty well because, you know, he did Hannibal for three years and I did a show called The Path.

[1350] So, you know, we would really take turns.

[1351] My hiatus was his, you know, work schedule.

[1352] You know, so we both were feeling.

[1353] creatively satisfied.

[1354] And really, we're not such actorly actors.

[1355] That sounds a little silly to put it that way, but those identities really aren't at the four when we're together.

[1356] We both love it.

[1357] We both take it really seriously, I guess.

[1358] I mean, enough.

[1359] We care deeply about it.

[1360] We've, like, committed our lives to it to a certain extent.

[1361] But our friends are not necessarily in the business.

[1362] I think sometimes my being American and his being English is like more of a thing that we kind of bump up against, you know, or kind of go, oh, wow, right.

[1363] Well, again, another fear of mine is I find the English accent so charming.

[1364] And then also I go like, would I wake up at year three?

[1365] You know, because when you fall in love with someone.

[1366] You stop hearing it.

[1367] You do.

[1368] It just becomes Hugh.

[1369] It stops being English.

[1370] And it's really funny when other people, he's very handsome.

[1371] He has a fancy version of English accent even.

[1372] But it's embarrassing how much we are willing to concede to that kind of human.

[1373] Like, he can get away with anything.

[1374] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1375] And it's kind of, like, it's tempting to exploit.

[1376] Sure.

[1377] But we're really pathetic.

[1378] It has a big power over us.

[1379] But I, like, remember that when I see him outside of the context of our relationship.

[1380] And I see him in the world just, like, melting all the human butter.

[1381] I'm like, oh, yeah, y 'all.

[1382] Although, you know, like, uh...

[1383] Way to the bay.

[1384] 13 years into a relationship, like, my wife can shut a cupboard.

[1385] And in my mind, I'm like, could she have possibly shut that cupboard more annoyingly?

[1386] Like, did she, like, workshop it when I was out of the room?

[1387] And then thought, oh, I'll really fuck with him while he's, watching that thing so i just imagine hearing like aluminum when i'm in that state of mind and being like oh just cut the fucking shit you live here it's fucking aluminum like that's where i go to in my head it's like something the other day that both was like you know it was just really not what he was supposed to send him his labs to the laboratory or something i forget what it was and um and he actually asked that question he was like how annoying is it to you that I am this weird English guy.

[1388] But I feel really bad because, you know, our kids are American.

[1389] American.

[1390] Yeah, yeah.

[1391] That would, that would be weird for me to have like English signs.

[1392] That is, that's got to be hard.

[1393] I feel for him almost daily.

[1394] Yeah.

[1395] So have you given thought to what's after Homeland?

[1396] Do you need like a four -year break?

[1397] Are you going to return to Yale?

[1398] Are we going to get that, finally get that psychology degree?

[1399] They may have made it way more empirical since you were last there.

[1400] I'm sure they have.

[1401] Yeah, they're doing brain imaging now.

[1402] It was all psychology's fault.

[1403] Let's be clear.

[1404] The whole field failed you.

[1405] Failed me. It was all wrong.

[1406] Because you've been on that show for nine years, right?

[1407] No, for eight.

[1408] But yes, like actually, in some, in total, it's more like a decade.

[1409] I feel like I'm supposed to know what I'm supposed to do next.

[1410] Right.

[1411] But I am still so immersed in it.

[1412] I haven't surfaced yet.

[1413] Like, I don't feel emancipated enough to sort of say, yeah, that's what I should do.

[1414] I have no idea.

[1415] But it's going to be awkward.

[1416] It's going to be a little uncomfortable, which actually I'm kind of looking forward to.

[1417] I mean, I'm not.

[1418] It makes me want to vomit, but I should be scared again.

[1419] It's hard not to work.

[1420] It is.

[1421] I feel like I'm in free fall a little bit.

[1422] Right.

[1423] I've had this alternate self that has.

[1424] helped define me actually and now she's gone so it's disorienting you kind of already said it but I just want to make sure I'm sure about it which is you had friends visit and you were able to do it you know year six or seven or whatever that was and I do remember because I had never been on a series and my wife had been on a series and I came home like season two and I was like I think I suck this year at this and she's like why and I'm like I just feel like I'm not trying or something And she's like, no, no, that's TV.

[1425] That's the beauty of it.

[1426] It just keeps getting easier and easier and easier.

[1427] Like, all of a sudden, it's just you.

[1428] Oh, it's the greatest.

[1429] I love that because you've already lived your backstory.

[1430] You don't have to, like, make it up.

[1431] You're not cheating.

[1432] You know, you've earned the chance to just do it.

[1433] I'm going to miss that.

[1434] And I'm really going to miss being part of a company.

[1435] Do you think, because you said earlier that you're a relationship person, this is a relationship, a 10 years.

[1436] year long one.

[1437] So that's heartbreaking a little bit.

[1438] And I've never had a shot at monogamy as an actor before.

[1439] That's the luxury that we're not typically afforded.

[1440] Yeah.

[1441] It is kind of amazing that you get to cycle through so many different realities and communities and selves.

[1442] That is a joy.

[1443] But there's also something like deeply grounding about working with a group of people who you have such a strong rapport with and a deep history with and a resilient trust with.

[1444] I mean, it's something that we do need, right?

[1445] The show definitely provided that for me and I'm sad to have to leave that.

[1446] I don't know if I'll ever do another run that long.

[1447] Right, right, right.

[1448] And the quality of the material and the people who were involved, it was just really, really excellent, you know?

[1449] And I was so spoiled.

[1450] And I never actually took that for granted.

[1451] I have to say, I think I was old enough to know that it was special.

[1452] But, yeah, that was cool.

[1453] And I would imagine over the years that people who have bipolar have reached out to you, I have to imagine.

[1454] They have.

[1455] They have.

[1456] I mean, look, we took a lot of liberties.

[1457] We had to.

[1458] It's TV.

[1459] And she's doing way too well.

[1460] I was always quite nervous about her condition being used when it was convenient for the plot's sake and I didn't want it to be just a gimmick.

[1461] I don't think it was ultimately, but there's always a risk of that when you're telling us a yarn of this kind.

[1462] But I do think that we tried to be as responsible as we could within, you know, the barriers of the format of the medium.

[1463] And there just aren't that many representations of that condition anywhere in pop culture.

[1464] And ultimately, she's a hero.

[1465] You know, so there is that positive association, which I think is really valuable.

[1466] Yeah.

[1467] The more I have learned about that condition, the more intrigued I am by it.

[1468] It's a hard one.

[1469] that if I had that condition, I know I would be one of the people that didn't take their medicine because I would want the wind -up.

[1470] I would live for that.

[1471] Right.

[1472] Well, you become addicted to the pathology.

[1473] That heightened state.

[1474] Because for a while, you really are performing at...

[1475] Four lines of coke, I'd say.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] Yeah.

[1478] That's right.

[1479] And you are truly productive and outpacing your peers.

[1480] And a common trajectory is that you then get rewarded for that and then you get promoted or you know you had this elevated status and more responsibility and then you kind of capsize you crash and then it just becomes intensely disorganized of how many people suffer from that in the country?

[1481] I think it's like 5%.

[1482] 5 %?

[1483] I think it's something like that.

[1484] I don't know.

[1485] I could be very wrong about that.

[1486] That's 15 million people.

[1487] I think it's...

[1488] I think it's right.

[1489] I have so much respect for people who struggle with this because, you know, you just have to be so diligent and so disciplined to do basic stuff to get through a day.

[1490] And we take so much for granted.

[1491] Yeah.

[1492] Well, Claire, I love you.

[1493] I'm in the group of people that is a gigantic fan of yours.

[1494] You're so tremendous on that show.

[1495] I'm very excited to see you.

[1496] When does it come out February?

[1497] When is it?

[1498] Ninth.

[1499] Thank you.

[1500] I love you too.

[1501] Thank you.

[1502] Thank you for inviting me to your attic.

[1503] Hopefully you'll come back with your whatever thing you end up choosing next.

[1504] Sure.

[1505] I would love to.

[1506] Okay.

[1507] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1508] Monica Padman.

[1509] Hi.

[1510] How you doing?

[1511] Oh, I thought there was going to be more.

[1512] It seemed like there was going to be a little more.

[1513] Yeah, of course.

[1514] It sounded like there was a statement that was going to follow, but there was.

[1515] But I was really just thinking about the fact that we rode to the attic today, which is always a great start for my day.

[1516] just want to throw that out there.

[1517] Oh, that's nice.

[1518] And I do worry when you live across the street.

[1519] I guess I could just walk over to your house and then walk you here.

[1520] Well, yeah, that might be a fun ritual.

[1521] Also, we won't ever have to travel.

[1522] That's true.

[1523] We'll live where we were.

[1524] Yeah, we can walk from your house to the attic three steps.

[1525] So exciting.

[1526] Yeah.

[1527] So, I mean, we should tell the arm cherries, because, I mean, not to like bring it down.

[1528] I know they're going to be sad about this, but eventually our attic that we're in right now is going to get demolished it's going to be dust and ash yeah but it's going to be a wild you know that part i hope we cannot get a permit for that thing i'm trying to build it's just not happening oh great so well yeah i mean great for the mojo of this attic yeah um but bad for like i need to exercise and that's where my exercise equipment is supposed to go this huge garage there's no designated place in our new house What about the gym?

[1529] I mean, the basement, right?

[1530] Well, that's kind of what I've been pushing bell for.

[1531] So in our current house, we have a basement.

[1532] That's where all my gear is, right?

[1533] Yeah, your gear.

[1534] My get ripped gear.

[1535] That's where the heavy things are that I lift up and set down.

[1536] Yeah.

[1537] So I said, look, I know the basement of the new house is a theater room.

[1538] Yeah.

[1539] But it's going to probably have to be a gym for a year.

[1540] She did not like that.

[1541] She was like, put it in my office.

[1542] I'm like, I can't fit all that crap in your office.

[1543] Oh, what about the gear?

[1544] Also, then you don't even have an office.

[1545] Oh, she's not thinking things through.

[1546] No, and I'm like, I can't go.

[1547] a year without working out commit suicide in the backyard oh my god don't say that oh my god by the way can we talk about suicide oh sure no this is gonna be a weirdly encouraging um take on suicide oh goodness okay for real um as i get deeper into gladwell's book i want you to read it so bad i will this motherfucker the things he tackles yeah he's so fearless so it's talking about oh the famous poet, she killed herself.

[1548] Emily Dickinson?

[1549] No, but you're in the right world.

[1550] Emily Plickinson.

[1551] Plath, why?

[1552] Oh, Plath.

[1553] Sylvia Plath.

[1554] So she killed herself in England and what she did was put her head in the oven and turned on the gas.

[1555] Oh my gosh.

[1556] And at that time, every single house in London burned a type of fuel called town gas, not natural gas that we now use.

[1557] so town gas was this kind of dirty mix of all these different gases but you could kill yourself quite easily with it so when all of london had town gas the number one killer of people was town gas was people committing suicide with town gas because it was very easy to do and so the traditional thinking on suicide was like well if you get rid of town gas people just find another way to kill themselves and that's what i thought going into this chapter and that's called the displacement theory that okay yeah if you took away guns then people would just use knives or whatever right but the work of a certain sociologist or psychologist started investigating and realized that there's a strong coupling aspect to suicide so it's not just that someone's on a war path to kill themselves it's that they have ideations they think about it and then the situation is right that's right and and um and so what happened was when they switched over to natural gas the suicide rate did dramatically drop it didn't just move over to another method yeah and then he goes into the folks who have jumped off the golden gate bridge which i think is like 1500 at this point it's the most of any structure in the world the most people have killed themselves and um there's always been these movements to put up barriers so people couldn't do it but then the argument was well no they'll just jump off something else we're going to spend all these millions on these barriers and they're just going to jump off something else so why not put it into health care or something or some prevention which again i would have probably bought into that theory right but what one of these people did is investigated of the i want to say it was like maybe 500 people who had been interrupted in their attempt to jump off the golden gate bridge over 70 years a person went and interviewed all those people that had been interrupted and only 25 of the 500 had ended up killing themselves.

[1558] Wow.

[1559] Yes.

[1560] Isn't that so interesting?

[1561] Suicide is one of the hardest topics for me. I get very anxious during that kind of conversation.

[1562] You know, I used to have, when I had a really bad anxiety, I used to feel like I was not suicidal, but I felt like all of a sudden I was going to have, I was just going to look down and I will have done it.

[1563] Like it will have happened to me. Yeah.

[1564] Which is not what happens.

[1565] But I, but I, but I, I was, yeah, so I had a lot of anxiety around suicide.

[1566] Yeah.

[1567] But I think that's really profound.

[1568] And sorry, I mean, not to be political, but this.

[1569] Well, 20 ,000 people a year killed themselves with a handgun in the U .S. Now, look, I'm a gun owner.

[1570] I just want to be dead honest about that.

[1571] I own guns.

[1572] I also, if there was a button on the wall, I could push, and there's no guns in America, I would push that button in one second.

[1573] So I have a very complicated relationship with it.

[1574] I don't like them enough.

[1575] Yeah.

[1576] that I would want one kid in a school getting shot over my loving of them.

[1577] Again, I know it's much deeper than that for people and it's a constitutional right and all this stuff.

[1578] So I'm not even going to get into the weeds on that.

[1579] I'm only going to say the data he gave is that it would appear that it would cut at least 10 ,000 deaths off a year off because this coupling mechanism is so strong.

[1580] It's amazing.

[1581] That's why I'm so drawn to everything he writes.

[1582] Because almost every chapter I enter with the exact mindset.

[1583] that most people have and then it's like some opposite way of thinking about it that's substantiated with data i love i love having my opinion change yeah it's so rare not for you in general in life it's it's hard for people to do that yeah but i'm giving you a compliment oh thank you uh but i find it very euphoria inducing yeah like as i was driving home from work yesterday listening to it and i was just like uh all a titter like a little baby you felt like a little baby A little baby boy in a toilet bowl of stew.

[1584] Should we tell people that we think we might be having a baby?

[1585] Oh, sure.

[1586] I don't want to start the rumor mill, but I used Monica's toilet at her new house, which is a non -functioning house.

[1587] And what I did is I flushed the toilet and it flushed properly.

[1588] And I was like, oh, the water's still on.

[1589] Great.

[1590] Then I whizzed.

[1591] Okay?

[1592] Yeah.

[1593] Then I hit the flusher again.

[1594] Oopsies.

[1595] No water in there.

[1596] So then I came to you and I was like, I've peached.

[1597] feed in your commode and I'm going to have to bring over a five gallon bucket of water and flush this thing.

[1598] You're like, yeah, yeah, we'll get to it.

[1599] And then you were there like a couple days after and you were going to pee your pants.

[1600] And so you peed on top of my...

[1601] I did.

[1602] I didn't want to put pee in another toilet because that would just be multiple things we'd have to figure out.

[1603] So I peed on top of your pee and it's all still there.

[1604] This is weeks ago.

[1605] Oh, Jesus.

[1606] I'm so embarrassed for us.

[1607] And we think that maybe the mixture of the pee, A life will grow out of that.

[1608] We don't know.

[1609] We just don't know.

[1610] Maybe Malcolm Gladwell could weigh in on how many broth babies there are.

[1611] Historically, how many broth babies there are.

[1612] I think this would be so exciting, though, if we went over there.

[1613] We went over there with the five -gallon water bucket, and then we heard, Mama, Dad, that.

[1614] And there is a little yellow baby down there.

[1615] I would really love it.

[1616] Me too.

[1617] Take care of it.

[1618] Of course we would.

[1619] Or a little urine baby?

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] It would probably need to like live in that toilet.

[1622] It might need to live in that toilet.

[1623] You're right.

[1624] And it would be jaundiced.

[1625] Well, for sure.

[1626] Okay.

[1627] Extremely jaundice.

[1628] Anywho.

[1629] Okay, Claire.

[1630] Claire.

[1631] So the TV movie that Kristen was in.

[1632] Oh, yes.

[1633] We got the name of it.

[1634] Yeah, I got the name of it.

[1635] The TV movie that Kristen was in with Claire was called Polish wedding and she had braces in it but in the still that she showed me her mouth is closed do you think that was a racist thing where they were like all polish people wear braces everyone in this movie has to have braces they have bad teeth they spend all their money on braces that's a stereotype so Kristen had braces in real life or she had like prosthetic braces oh good question no Claire didn't Kristen did.

[1636] She said I had braces.

[1637] Oh.

[1638] But maybe you're right.

[1639] Maybe that was the character had braces.

[1640] Because did Kristen have braces?

[1641] Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think she did.

[1642] I want to say she had them for like a week.

[1643] Okay, well, that does nothing.

[1644] No, like they were almost perfect.

[1645] No, I don't buy any of that.

[1646] No, no, no, no. Well, they went to the orthodontas and he goes, but I can have this fixed by Sunday.

[1647] I'm going to put these braces on.

[1648] You're going to take them off Sunday and you're going to have a beautiful smile.

[1649] I would ask Google, but instead I'm going to add.

[1650] ask Kristen's mom.

[1651] Okay.

[1652] We have a quick question.

[1653] Did Kristen have braces in life?

[1654] And for how long?

[1655] And if so, for how long?

[1656] Was it over a week?

[1657] We'll see if she responds.

[1658] I think she's at work, but.

[1659] We should open up an orthodontia clinic that's called one week orthodontia.

[1660] It would just be a huge scam.

[1661] I know, I know.

[1662] But think how much business we would do in that first few weeks before people got wise to it.

[1663] You're morals.

[1664] Oh, my God.

[1665] Like the thing you sent me last night.

[1666] Oh, my God.

[1667] I have the greatest idea.

[1668] You think I can't even say it?

[1669] You have to make it very clear.

[1670] You're kidding.

[1671] Okay, so I'm definitely joking.

[1672] I have no plans to really do this.

[1673] But we're watching the morning show.

[1674] Yep.

[1675] And, you know, it's loose.

[1676] I'm guessing it's loosely based on Matt Lauer.

[1677] Maybe they haven't said that explicitly, but I would say yes.

[1678] Okay.

[1679] So it appears to be kind of based on Matt Lauer.

[1680] And of all of his indiscretions, there's no arguing the guy was incredibly good at that job, right?

[1681] Yeah.

[1682] And Bill O 'Reilly, even though I can't, I never watched a show in my politics or opposite, tremendous at that job.

[1683] He was number one in the ratings every year he was on that network.

[1684] So anyways, I was starting about launching a network called canceled, canceled network or canceled TV.

[1685] And it's just all these guys that have been canceled.

[1686] and, you know, I think people in public would be like, I hate that person, but then at home they would probably watch it because they would think no one's looking at them.

[1687] It was really an exploration of the difference between your public and private life.

[1688] Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[1689] And that's a joke.

[1690] That's a big joke.

[1691] But I do think it would be very successful.

[1692] No. I'm not saying I want it to be successful.

[1693] I think it would be very successful.

[1694] I really don't.

[1695] You don't?

[1696] No, I don't.

[1697] I mean, I think they'd have a person.

[1698] percentage of people who would like it, but do I think it'd be popular?

[1699] No. And then you made a, you came over the top, really, because I was saying Lauer and Bill O 'Reilly, which I don't think either was accused ever of forcing anyone against their will.

[1700] Rampant abuses of power, but I don't think there's any rape allegations, right?

[1701] But then you came over the top and said, you could have Weinstein do like a movie of the week, too.

[1702] It'd probably be great.

[1703] I know, I said Weinstein.

[1704] But that one, he's a...

[1705] Well, I had a feeling, so actually that's why I said it.

[1706] I was wondering what you were going to say.

[1707] You didn't respond to me for the rest of the night.

[1708] Oh, no. Well, it's gone up in the show you've told me to watch.

[1709] But I wondered what your response is going to be because I thought maybe you were going to say something like that.

[1710] Like, that's not the same thing.

[1711] Uh -huh.

[1712] But it's close to the same.

[1713] It's the same thing.

[1714] It's the same thing.

[1715] It's the same thing.

[1716] It is.

[1717] You're right.

[1718] It's the same thing.

[1719] and there's a gradient.

[1720] Yeah, there is, but I always say, I know, because I'm always saying that, and the more I'm like watching some of this, actually, I finished the morning show last night.

[1721] Okay.

[1722] And, oh, Steve Carrell, God, I love him so much.

[1723] That's what, that's what Mom said about you last night.

[1724] She said, oh, my God, Monica had it change your pants five times over how good Steve Correll was.

[1725] Everyone's jealous of Steve Corral because I talk about him all the time.

[1726] He's the new Gene Cordell.

[1727] Yeah, but anyways, Steve Carl's so good.

[1728] But I'm watching this whole thing, and I'm just like, yeah, it's horrible.

[1729] These abuses of power and the chain of power.

[1730] Yeah.

[1731] And it's really bad.

[1732] And sure, so technically he didn't rape anyone.

[1733] I'm only drawing a distinction between consensual sex and non -consensual sex.

[1734] I know, but I think the line is a little more blurry than.

[1735] People have traditionally given it credit.

[1736] Yeah.

[1737] I think you're probably right.

[1738] Yeah.

[1739] I'm seeing this because I'm listening to Catch and Kill Ronan's podcast, which is really good.

[1740] And I'm reading his book as well, which is also really, really good.

[1741] And yeah, when you start hearing the accounts from a lot of the people, like Rose McGowan's account, all this, like she's being touched out of nowhere, right?

[1742] Right.

[1743] And so it's just like you're catching up.

[1744] Your brain is trying to catch up to what's going on.

[1745] and then it's evaluating all the ramifications, you know, career and or otherwise.

[1746] And so by the time you could even launch maybe a game plan, you're pretty deep into an assault.

[1747] Yeah, exactly.

[1748] And so I definitely underestimate how much of what could have appeared to look like consent.

[1749] Exactly.

[1750] It isn't.

[1751] Exactly.

[1752] Which is another great chapter of Malcolm's book is the complexities of consent.

[1753] He's like, number one, one of the biggest challenges is how can you even educate people in college about consent when there's no consensus on what consent is?

[1754] Is it nodding yes?

[1755] Is it removing your own club?

[1756] Like, he starts polling all these people on what thing constitutes consent.

[1757] And there's just no consensus around that.

[1758] Yeah.

[1759] So it's like you don't even really know what marching orders to give everyone.

[1760] It's true.

[1761] It's such a complicated topic.

[1762] Oh, yeah.

[1763] Oof.

[1764] Mm -hmm.

[1765] Mm -hmm.

[1766] P -baby, pee -baby, pee -baby.

[1767] What do we get to name her pee -baby?

[1768] Consent?

[1769] I think we should name him or her pee -baby.

[1770] Are you hungry, pee -baby?

[1771] She might not like that.

[1772] Well, she won't know that she'll assume every...

[1773] Likely not, but also she'll just assume that everyone was born in a toilet.

[1774] Oh, that's nice for her.

[1775] Although a pee -baby, you know, could have both parts.

[1776] Oh, maybe, which would be cute.

[1777] Yeah, a little dinger and a little doo -doo.

[1778] A little ditty and a little doo -do.

[1779] Hermaphrodite?

[1780] Yeah, hermaphrodite.

[1781] I learned in anthro.

[1782] There's really only been, I think, one or two in history.

[1783] Really?

[1784] Yeah, because part of the definition is that both sex organs have to function.

[1785] So quite often, like, you'll see, there's all kinds of things that could happen in the womb during the development where something was interrupted, but then it came back online.

[1786] so you can have women with a vagina that appears almost to have like a penis on top with the glitoris is, but it's not really, but, you know, there's been some cases that were filed as from Aphrodite, but they're not.

[1787] They don't have functioning sex organs.

[1788] There's approximately 700 worldwide.

[1789] I don't believe that.

[1790] Characterized by the presence of both ovarian and testicular tissues.

[1791] Tissues.

[1792] Or one or both gonads.

[1793] Okay, but all right, so I think at least in my anthro class, they had to be functioning, not just present.

[1794] Yeah, they call this true hermaphroditeism.

[1795] Okay.

[1796] Well, look at this.

[1797] I just claimed I love being my mind change.

[1798] So thank you, Rob.

[1799] It doesn't feel as fun when you do it as when Malcolm.

[1800] I'll put some music underneath it.

[1801] Please.

[1802] So she said.

[1803] Claire now we're talking about.

[1804] Yeah, back to Claire, not P -Baby.

[1805] Okay.

[1806] Okay, back to Claire.

[1807] So -ho at some point you were required to be an, artist.

[1808] Oh yeah, I didn't want to make her eat up her time explaining the history of that to me, but I was like, I didn't know that.

[1809] I know.

[1810] I had no idea.

[1811] It says the artist in resident zoning law was passed in 1971 to allow for the conversion of 200 commercial lofts to residential use on the condition that each lot contained a certified artist.

[1812] Soho and Noho were essentially zoned for quote, joint living working spaces so that these properties would be off limits to any non -certified artists.

[1813] For years, the law was widely ignored as agencies like the Department of Buildings concentrated their efforts on matters, more pressing than carving out affordable spaces for artists to live.

[1814] How does one become certified as an artist, I wonder?

[1815] And why aren't I certified?

[1816] Should we explore this?

[1817] Yeah, we should figure out the process.

[1818] Because I want to get some dirt cheap square footage in Manhattan.

[1819] Yeah, and Soho.

[1820] Soho's awesome.

[1821] Oh, yeah.

[1822] If I was living in New York, I'd probably want to live there.

[1823] You would.

[1824] I'd live in the way.

[1825] or the West Village.

[1826] Or the West Village, yeah.

[1827] It's hard to pick.

[1828] One or the other.

[1829] All the good burgers are over there in the West Villy.

[1830] I'm hungry.

[1831] Corner Bistro.

[1832] No, but Emily's is in Brooklyn.

[1833] Yeah, yeah.

[1834] Well, there's an Emily's.

[1835] In the West Village.

[1836] In the West Village.

[1837] But it's not our burger.

[1838] It's not our Emily's.

[1839] It's not.

[1840] It's beautiful.

[1841] It's beautiful.

[1842] It's beautiful.

[1843] And all the burgers are a little bit different in each location.

[1844] So ours was Brooklyn.

[1845] We'll eat there again.

[1846] Maybe we'll bring our pee baby there.

[1847] Traveling with her is going to be hard, I will say.

[1848] Is Kristen going to be her grandma or her mom?

[1849] Well, no, she won't be her mom because her pee is not in there.

[1850] I guess she'd be a stepmom.

[1851] That doesn't feel super complimentary though, does it?

[1852] Well, I mean, I don't know what to say.

[1853] That's just the truth of the world.

[1854] I know, I know.

[1855] Her pee is not in there.

[1856] But I'm not convinced that she won't go pee in there before our baby's made.

[1857] Well, if it can sing really well, we'll know.

[1858] Yeah.

[1859] Okay, so her mom, oh yeah, her mom had a daycare, and that just reminded me, you know, my hot grandma had a daycare.

[1860] Oh, God, what I have loved to have been one of the dads dropping the peepy baby off and then chatting up your grandma.

[1861] Unfortunately, there were no peepee babies there.

[1862] But I would spend summers, you know, with them, and so I was always around all these little kids, and I was really jealous.

[1863] You were?

[1864] Yeah.

[1865] Oh.

[1866] Yeah, I didn't like that.

[1867] Of your grandma's attention?

[1868] Yeah, and then like when my mom would, like, sometimes I'd spend the whole summer.

[1869] or my mom would be there for like a week or two.

[1870] Uh -huh.

[1871] And then my mom would play with some of these kids, and I did not like that.

[1872] You didn't.

[1873] No. And then my aunt would sometimes come in and also be nice, like, read us both a story.

[1874] And I was like, no. Uh -huh, uh -huh.

[1875] That's my aunt.

[1876] Yeah.

[1877] Do you think that's from being an only child for eight years?

[1878] Yeah.

[1879] Probably.

[1880] I wanted a sibling so bad.

[1881] Do you think you're going to have a strong streak of jealousy in your next relationship?

[1882] Hmm.

[1883] Yeah.

[1884] I hope not.

[1885] Maybe, though.

[1886] No, I mean, I'll try not to.

[1887] I'll work on it.

[1888] I'm serious.

[1889] I know.

[1890] I was just curious.

[1891] How do I know?

[1892] I can't predict that.

[1893] No, but you have like a hunch maybe based on the babies playing with grandma.

[1894] Well, okay, look, people evolve, okay?

[1895] I'm not.

[1896] I do just think, though, when you're born second, like, you're just, your whole worldview is you've got to share mom with this kid.

[1897] It's just you're forced to practice sharing.

[1898] Yeah.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] And in defining love, not including exclusivity.

[1901] Exactly.

[1902] That's true.

[1903] It's no one's fault if you're born.

[1904] I would say my brother is much more like you just because he too had five years without me. Yeah, that's true.

[1905] I mean, I guess if I feel safe by the person, I probably won't feel jealous.

[1906] Right.

[1907] But I probably didn't feel safe with my mom.

[1908] Or your beautiful Gaga.

[1909] I'm kidding.

[1910] I feel like it's off brand for your hot Gaga to have had a daycare.

[1911] Oh, really?

[1912] Yeah.

[1913] Well, why?

[1914] Because I'm going to all the stereotypical Indian immigrant stuff.

[1915] And I think like engineering, medical, all these different things.

[1916] Dairy queen.

[1917] No, oh, no. I never think child care.

[1918] Not my grandma's age.

[1919] Women were not doing that.

[1920] Women were housewives.

[1921] Right, or housewives.

[1922] Yeah, she was a housewife, but then also ran a daycare.

[1923] Oh, okay.

[1924] Was it profitable?

[1925] I don't know how much she charged.

[1926] They made a good living, though, right?

[1927] They saved a bunch of money.

[1928] They were very frugal.

[1929] They didn't spend any money.

[1930] Like she made all my mom and sister's clothes.

[1931] Uh -huh.

[1932] But yeah, my grandfather was a professor, so yeah, they had money.

[1933] Right.

[1934] And they gave me all of it.

[1935] Yeah.

[1936] Just kidding.

[1937] Just kidding.

[1938] Just kidding.

[1939] Okay.

[1940] So, oh, yeah.

[1941] So she was talking about the guy in my so -called life who was in a Noxema commercial.

[1942] So Jared Leto, who was in the Naxima commercial.

[1943] But he was actually in the commercial you like.

[1944] liked with Rebecca Gayheart, he was her love interest.

[1945] Oh my gosh.

[1946] I can't think of any accolade that would more prove that you were the most beautiful couple in the world than to have a Noxema campaign.

[1947] I agree.

[1948] Wow.

[1949] I know.

[1950] The skin of angels.

[1951] Oh, boy.

[1952] Was Titanic the biggest movie of all time when it came out?

[1953] It set the record for highest domestic grossing movie ever from its debut in December 1997 to close in October 1998, making more than $650 million.

[1954] just domestically Yeah You said Psychology is 150 years old The late 19th century marked the start of psychology As a Scientific Enterprise Psychology as a self -conscious field of experimental study began in 1879 Wow I almost nailed it to the dot Do you want to do exact math?

[1955] It's 141 years Wow, great job So it's nine years off Yeah, really close Hey, Google, what is 9 divided by 141?

[1956] The answer is approximately 0 .06383.

[1957] 0 .0 .0.

[1958] Yeah, so it's less than 1 % off.

[1959] By the way, there is nothing cuter than Google in your chair.

[1960] It makes me smile so much every time I walk in.

[1961] She has her own microphone, right?

[1962] She is really cute.

[1963] I feel like she has a...

[1964] She's cuter than the P -Baby, believe you.

[1965] Don't you think she's in love with that microphone?

[1966] Because they look almost the same.

[1967] Yeah.

[1968] They're like clearly of the same.

[1969] species.

[1970] Yeah, it's nice.

[1971] Oh, wow.

[1972] Okay, the DSM history that you give.

[1973] Yeah.

[1974] I can't find anything on that.

[1975] And then I checked with Wendy.

[1976] Mogle.

[1977] Yeah.

[1978] She said a lot of stuff about the DSM.

[1979] And you're right that it's like...

[1980] Controversy.

[1981] Correct.

[1982] But she doesn't know anything about the thump, although she was like, I kind of remember hearing something like that.

[1983] And I said, I think you may have heard it on our show.

[1984] No, no, no, no, there's a, I could bring it up on YouTube right now.

[1985] Bring it up, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1986] I've watched it three or four times.

[1987] Englishman who tricked psychologists.

[1988] Let me see if it pops up.

[1989] It doesn't pop up, I'm going to move on.

[1990] It didn't pop up, so let's move on.

[1991] Okay, so you'll find it, and we'll put it on the yearly fact check.

[1992] No, we'll talk about it next week.

[1993] We'll revisit it, yeah.

[1994] Okay, so the percentage of bipolar in the U .S., bipolar disorder is a neurobiological brain disorder that affects approximately 2 .3 million Americans today or almost 1 % of the population.

[1995] Her estimate was a little higher, but she said I don't really know for sure.

[1996] Right.

[1997] Then you get, we always get into this, you and I, it's always like, is that people who have already acknowledged they are?

[1998] Or it's hard to know in that figure.

[1999] Is it a speculation?

[2000] I think that this is people who are diagnosed, I would guess.

[2001] Yes, there's going to be a lot.

[2002] then you go like, oh, there must be a ton of undiagnosed.

[2003] Sure, but there's no way to do any statistics on that.

[2004] We just can't do it.

[2005] We don't have the tech.

[2006] We do have a good piece of tech in here.

[2007] We do.

[2008] But we don't have all the tech.

[2009] Hey, Google, how many pee babies exist in the world?

[2010] Oh, great question.

[2011] Sorry, I can't help with that yet.

[2012] Well, eventually she'll get to say one when ours is born.

[2013] We'll get back to you, Google.

[2014] Okay.

[2015] We'll tell you first if we have the first example.

[2016] example of one.

[2017] All right.

[2018] I love you.

[2019] Love you.

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