Tim Grover

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] We have a very interesting guest today, and we get to take a peek behind the curtain of the Michael Jordans and the Kobe Bryant's and the Dwayne Wade's of the world and see what kind of mental and physical performance they've enacted through the guidance of our guest, Tim Grover.

[3] Tim Grover is a mental and physical performance coach, and he's worked with the best of the best and was featured in our favorite documentary, The Last Dance.

[4] So please enjoy Tim Grover.

[5] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

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[8] Tim, how are you?

[9] Where are we talking to you at?

[10] From Chicago.

[11] Oh, yeah.

[12] Now, you're from Chicago.

[13] parents do there?

[14] Both my parents were actually in the medical field.

[15] My mom was a nurse practitioner, and my dad was a professor at Northwestern University.

[16] Oh, really?

[17] He taught medicine.

[18] Correct.

[19] And were you guys tight?

[20] Very close.

[21] Monica knows Indian families are extremely tight.

[22] Both my parents are Indian also.

[23] Oh.

[24] Yes.

[25] Would I be right to guess that you're northern Indian?

[26] Yes.

[27] Okay.

[28] How long had your parents been here?

[29] Or are they themselves second generation or?

[30] No, there was first generation here.

[31] We actually went from India to England and then from England to here.

[32] So all of us moved from India to England and then my mom came over to the States because there was a huge nursing shortage in the States and she was able to find work a lot easier than my dad was.

[33] So basically my brother and myself, we, stayed back in England.

[34] That's where I was born.

[35] So we were there for four years.

[36] And then when my mom got settled over here, my dad brought my brother and myself over here.

[37] Well, and you have a very obvious Chicago accent that maybe you're aware of or not aware of.

[38] Well, thank you so much, because everyone always says it's a New York accent.

[39] I was like, no, it's not a New York accent.

[40] It's a Chicago accent.

[41] I recently interviewed Monica's dad.

[42] And I said, was it so weird for you to have this daughter who was so prototypically American, like a cheerleader, all the stereotypical ways you would think of an American teenage girl.

[43] And I wonder if your dad, yeah, gets a kick out of you having this Chicago accent.

[44] I feel like if I moved somewhere, my kids had that, I would be amused by it.

[45] It was funny.

[46] Both my parents speak like the broken English.

[47] Like they communicate with us half English, half Punjabi.

[48] And when they were really upset, it was all Indian, all Punjabi.

[49] And I don't speak the language, but boy, did I understand everything.

[50] That was my mom, too.

[51] Same.

[52] She can't speak it, but she can understand everything.

[53] Yeah.

[54] Situation.

[55] She knows how to get yelled at in it.

[56] Mm -hmm.

[57] Oh, yeah.

[58] So what was your career path?

[59] I know you played basketball competitively and you even got recruited to play in college.

[60] What did you major in at college?

[61] I'm sure you are probably pressured into going into medicine.

[62] Oh, of course.

[63] Listen, I don't know how it is now, but I always say that if you're a son or daughter of Indian parents, you have two options as a career.

[64] A doctor is one and a doctor is second.

[65] That's it.

[66] Every now and then, they'll be like, yeah, if you want to be a lawyer, you can be a lawyer.

[67] I was just going to say, it got expanded to lawyer and Monica's generation.

[68] Yes.

[69] With each generation, it got expanded.

[70] Then after the lawyer, there was engineering.

[71] tech, yeah.

[72] Yes, yeah.

[73] But when I was growing up, it's one of those two.

[74] So it's funny, I have a master's degree in exercise science and a bachelor's degree in kinesiology, which is the movement of muscles and what happens to the body when you exercise and work out.

[75] So when I told my parents that I didn't want to go to medical school, they were not happy about it.

[76] They said, well, what are you going to do?

[77] I said, I'm going to train professional athletes.

[78] And my dad was like interesting.

[79] They did not know what that meant.

[80] And their defense in that era, it wasn't a known thing.

[81] Like, now people are very accustomed to the idea of an elite performance coach.

[82] But back then, that wasn't in the zeitgeist.

[83] Not at all.

[84] The only thing they could equate it to was being a gym teacher.

[85] And no offense to gym teachers, but that's all they had.

[86] My dad said, well, listen, we still want you to take the entrance exam for med school, which is the Amcat.

[87] And I took it the first time, and I totally bombed on purpose.

[88] And when we got the results, my dad goes, nice try.

[89] He was, I was already ready for this.

[90] He had already registered for me to take it over.

[91] And I took it over.

[92] I did fairly well.

[93] I got accepted.

[94] And then I finally had to tell them, I'm not going.

[95] And it was funny, even to this day, even though my dad is no longer with us, to them, a real job is where you have set hours, where you get a paycheck every two weeks, you get paid vacation, and you have a retirement plan.

[96] And what I do is the complete opposite.

[97] It's go out, find the business, find the clientele, don't know where your next paycheck is coming from.

[98] But when I finally realized who I was working with and what my clientele were, they forgave me briefly.

[99] Monica, should you speak?

[100] Well, I actually just had a question.

[101] Is that your given last name?

[102] Grover is my given last name, yes.

[103] Was it shortened at any point?

[104] It was not shortened at any point.

[105] My first name has been shortened.

[106] So it's actually Tim Deep.

[107] So it's T -I -M -D -E -E -P -Sing Grover.

[108] Got it.

[109] My last name is shortened.

[110] That my grandfather shortened it.

[111] So I just wondered.

[112] My dad wore the turban, but he told his mother that he was the first one that said, I want my family to have a different path.

[113] I will respect your wishes.

[114] I will not cut my hair.

[115] I will wear a turban, but I am not going to raise my children that way.

[116] He was the first rebel, and then I took it even farther.

[117] Well, it's probably in your genetics on some level that he was that way, and then you carried on.

[118] But Monica, I thought you were going to pipe up because Monica's stories so darn similar in that.

[119] She went to Hollywood, and then she'll call her parents occasionally and be like, we're interviewing Bill Gates tomorrow, and they're like, oh, this is kind of cool.

[120] And then we're interviewing Hillary.

[121] Oh, all right, this career past seems to be not so shabby.

[122] And then the father handers the finances, and he's like, by God, this worked out.

[123] Yeah.

[124] As often as I tried to get both my parents to go to a Chicago Bulls game during that era and see everything, they were like, no, we just want to watch it on TV.

[125] They just want to watch it on TV.

[126] They missed out.

[127] They missed out on a lot.

[128] So Indian of them, though.

[129] Monica and I get to all these debates where I'm like, there's no way your family doesn't want to come and see everyone clap for you.

[130] and stuff.

[131] And she's like, you don't understand how it works.

[132] I'll say, I'll say, call your dad and tell him you love him today, and she'll go, he'll think I'm dying.

[133] He won't enjoy that.

[134] And I'm like, okay, yeah.

[135] The first thing, what's wrong?

[136] Yes.

[137] So how did you find your way to working with Jordan on the Bulls?

[138] So I graduated with my master's degree, and the only job that was available was working at a local health club.

[139] So back then, the minimum wage was $3 .00.

[140] and 35 cents.

[141] Remember, I had a master's degree, but I had all this knowledge in my head, but I didn't get a chance to actually practice it.

[142] So I started to work in a local health club and just started out, like, watching different trainers do their thing and kind of put my own spin on things and really built a reputation as being a trainer at that health club that really got results.

[143] Back then, there was no social media.

[144] There wasn't any social media.

[145] So your word of mouth was your advertisement.

[146] So how do you get more business?

[147] You have to show results on somebody else, not yourself.

[148] You have to show results on somebody else.

[149] So I would take the interests not only in their workouts, their nutrition part of it, their lifestyles, all the things they had to do and didn't do when they weren't working out with me, everything.

[150] So I paid attention to a lot of details because I was like, okay, if I can show results on majority of my clients, everybody else is going to see what's going on with them.

[151] And they're going to ask, who are you working out with?

[152] And I ended up being one of the highest grossing trainers in that club.

[153] And I worked with these were individuals that just wanted to lose weight, get better.

[154] There was a lot of post -pregnancy.

[155] It was a tennis club, so people wanted to get ready for tennis.

[156] I was an individual that really paid attention to the details.

[157] So you built up a reputation, and then how does that open the door?

[158] So what happened was I saw a small article in a newspaper about different athletes working out and so forth.

[159] I said, you know what?

[160] This is what I'm going to do.

[161] I'm going to send out 14 letters.

[162] There's 15 players on a NBA basketball roster.

[163] I said, you know what?

[164] I'm in Chicago.

[165] I'm going to send out 14 letters to each player on the Chicago Bulls saying, hey, this is what I do.

[166] These are the results I can get, how I'm unique to the training industry.

[167] So back then, again, no emails, no cell phones, none of that stuff.

[168] So I literally wrote the letters and I addressed it to the Bulls practice facilities, put everybody's name on the letter, stamped it.

[169] The only person I did not send a letter to was Michael Jordan because I was like, okay, this guy is so talented, he's so good, he already has somebody working with him.

[170] So those letters actually made it to the lockers of the different players.

[171] Can I quickly ask what year this was?

[172] This was 1988 or 89.

[173] Okay, and then I think it's relevant for context.

[174] This kind of predates the era where athletes of that variety weight trained and stuff.

[175] That was just kind of starting, correct?

[176] Like, now you look at sports and Formula One drivers work out all day long.

[177] Like, motocross riders, everyone has recognized the value of it.

[178] But back then, they believed they got playing.

[179] of exercise on the court, right?

[180] They weren't trying to amp up anything.

[181] Yeah, you're just like, okay, if you run and in practice, that's basically your workout.

[182] And especially in basketball, there was just like, no, weight training and conditioning, it's actually going to hinder your shot, it's going to slow you down.

[183] And that was some of the stuff that I had to kind of overcome.

[184] And I said, no, there's actually a way to do this where it enhances your ability.

[185] It enhances the way you jump, the way you run, the way you shoot a basketball.

[186] So I didn't get any of the way.

[187] replied back.

[188] So Michael reached into a locker of somebody else's and pulled the letter out and read it and gave it to the team's athletic trainer and said, hey, find out what this guy's about.

[189] Wow.

[190] I'm sorry.

[191] First of all, that's the most improbable story ever.

[192] And then secondly, here's where I will say you're welcome, because he only wanted to wait train because of the Detroit Pistons.

[193] So here's a funny thing.

[194] So one of the reasons.

[195] So one of the reasons, because Michael wanted to get stronger is because of physical abuse he was taking for the Detroit Pistons.

[196] So during the Olympics time, I got a chance to meet Chuck Daly because Chuck Daly was the coach of the dream team.

[197] And I went up to him and I thanked him.

[198] And he goes, who is this guy?

[199] I said, because of you.

[200] I said, I have my career because of you.

[201] But you're absolutely right.

[202] That's why Michael was like, hey, I need an edge.

[203] I'm taking this physical abuse from this team, and I want to get stronger.

[204] So basically, the athletic trainer and the team physician at that time, for three months, they just hammered me with questions about my philosophy.

[205] If I knew what I was talking about, they'd give me tests to take and every kind of thing when they was like, okay, and I didn't know who they were interviewing me for.

[206] I did not have a clue.

[207] Also, I can't imagine someone that's been employed as the athletic trainer is welcoming of some outside opinion.

[208] And like, that would feel a little bit undermining if I were in that position.

[209] So you're uphill battle for sure.

[210] I did.

[211] But back then, the athletic trainer was not the individual that did the strength and conditioning part, did not do the sports performance.

[212] There was somebody else that did the sports performance.

[213] And the athletic trainer back then job was just to handle injuries.

[214] Keep them limber, get a massage.

[215] Yes.

[216] It was that kind of things.

[217] So after about three months through this.

[218] going through this grueling back and forth, they tell me, hey, we want you to meet the client at, like, it was 1 .30, and here's the address.

[219] I still don't know who they were talking to.

[220] So I get to the address.

[221] I lived in the city.

[222] This was out in one of the suburbs.

[223] So I ring the doorbell, and Michael Jordan opens the door.

[224] Okay, back up.

[225] As you're pulling up to this house, you're definitely thinking, well, it wasn't that house back then.

[226] The later house has got the big gate.

[227] It's got a 23 on me, he'd be like, okay.

[228] You know, I'm kind of, no one.

[229] This one, I mean, like I said, I didn't have to go through security or anything.

[230] I just, like, walked up to the door.

[231] That might be the last time Michael Jordan actually answered the doorbell.

[232] Yeah.

[233] And here's a crazy part about it.

[234] Everybody knows how Michael is a Nike guy, you know, with the brand Jordan.

[235] I had a pair of converse on.

[236] Uh -oh.

[237] Uh -oh.

[238] I think we learned in last dance.

[239] That was initially, though, the deal they were going to sign.

[240] Wasn't it with Converse, I think?

[241] Well, he wanted to go with Adidas first.

[242] And Adidas said no. And then Converse also said no. And then Nike finally said yes.

[243] $25 billion later.

[244] Yeah.

[245] And I was like, all right, I better take off the shoes.

[246] I take off the shoes before I go in the house.

[247] And of course, I got two big holes in my socks.

[248] So I'm like, okay, this interview is going really, really well.

[249] So I left the shoes at the door.

[250] We went downstairs.

[251] We spoke for about an hour.

[252] I told him what my philosophy was, what I could do, how this would be advantageous to him.

[253] And his comment was, and I talked about this in a book winning, he says, this don't sound right.

[254] And I said, give me 30 days.

[255] What were a couple of the components of that that stood out as being wrong to him?

[256] What were some of your ideas?

[257] Well, I told like how he'll be able to jump higher, how he'll be able to run faster, how he'll be able to reduce his injury, the stress on his joints, the stress on his ligaments.

[258] And he just wanted to get stronger.

[259] And I said, back that was like, Mr. Jordan, before we get stronger, let's address all the little nagging injuries that happened to you all the time.

[260] Because nobody had seen an athlete do the things that he did.

[261] And he had constant little pulls here, a groin pill, a hamstring strain, a calf pull here and there.

[262] I said, Let's address those things.

[263] If we address to those things alone, you're automatically going to be a better player.

[264] You're automatically going to be a better athlete because now your body is functioning at a higher percentage.

[265] Can I guess that's something that I would imagine most of his injuries were the result of working these same muscle groups and there being some imbalance and that the weaker ones that weren't conditioned would have to give way.

[266] Was that part of the thought you had?

[267] Dax, that's absolutely right.

[268] And some muscles were being overworked, some muscles were being underworked.

[269] And so I put a plan together and I said, give me 30 days.

[270] 30 days turned into 15 years.

[271] Wow.

[272] And six championships later, gold medals, everything.

[273] I mean, you want to talk about a client to put you on the map.

[274] My God.

[275] I mean, I imagine from the success of that onward, most people would want to work with you that are in that line of work.

[276] Yes, but here's a crazy thing.

[277] So Michael always has this saying, they had to get his permission.

[278] So when they would ask him whether they could work with me, he was like, listen, I don't pay him to train me. I pay him not to train anybody else.

[279] That's smart.

[280] Yeah.

[281] So for many years up to that point, he didn't allow me to work out with other individuals.

[282] And then he finally loosened up a little bit and said during the offseason, I could have clients.

[283] And then we had this thing called the Breakfast Club where he would invite him.

[284] other teammates to come work out with him.

[285] So Scotty Pippen became a member of the breakfast club and Ron Harper became a member of the breakfast club.

[286] So every morning those three individuals would work out together and they would do a lot of the similar things and then I would address different issues that each one of those have.

[287] But they held each other accountable and they knew that Michael said, I need these individuals to be playing at the highest level in order to achieve these championships.

[288] Boy, I'm reminded of the other doc I love this year, which was the Tiger Woods doc, and that his caddy, when Tiger took some time off, his caddy asked him if he could caddy for someone else.

[289] He said yes, and then he never called him again.

[290] It's so heartbreaking.

[291] It is these individuals.

[292] They're not leaving anything up for question, right?

[293] They're going to do every conceivable thing to have an advantage.

[294] Everyone says, when you're that good, when you're that talented, and this is in sports, business, whatever it is, you're not trying to get one percent better.

[295] You're trying to get 0 .0001 percent better.

[296] And people used to say to me, they was like, well, you were working with Michael Jordan, how much improvement is there?

[297] I was like, when there's an individual that that's talented to show just a small percentage of improvement, you really, really have to know what you're doing.

[298] I'm a very competitive individual myself.

[299] People would be like, oh, you did it for Michael.

[300] Well, go do it for somebody.

[301] else.

[302] All right, well, I went and did it for Kobe.

[303] Well, you did it for Michael and Kobe.

[304] Go do it for somebody else.

[305] I did it for Dwayne Wade.

[306] I wanted to prove to everybody that this just was not a one -off.

[307] I was not a one -hit wonder, similar to what you two do.

[308] Each podcast, you set a standard for yourselves, and you want to not meet that standard.

[309] You want to exceed that standard every opportunity you get.

[310] Well, I'm hoping to just hit around the mark sometimes.

[311] But that's why I'm not a champion.

[312] He doesn't have a winner's heart.

[313] I don't.

[314] But I do.

[315] Yeah, Monica is a two -time state champion.

[316] So she and I have a much different mindset that comes up very often, more than you would guess, I think.

[317] It's just day -to -day life.

[318] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

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[337] Well, I just got to say one thing.

[338] I was reminded of you had the opportunity to go out and prove that you could do it with other people, which is fantastic.

[339] But it did remind me of that great moment in Last Dance when they asked Steve Kerr what makes the bull so special and he starts to concoct an answer and then he just goes, we have Michael.

[340] It was just so great.

[341] But here was one of my first thoughts.

[342] So I was watching that documentary.

[343] Monica and I loved it.

[344] It's our favorite doc ever, yeah, and you play such a big role in it.

[345] Now, I wonder, and you would be good at explain this to me, if you look at the NBA and you look at the fitness level of the players in the NBA, there's not really a big standard deviation between them physically.

[346] They're all phenoms to some degree.

[347] So I'm wondering if you had to assign a percentage.

[348] to how important the physical is versus the mental.

[349] Because to me, it seems like you could be many standard deviations above your teammates or your competitors mentally, but that physically, at best, you would be one above them.

[350] Does that make any sense?

[351] It makes all the sense in the world.

[352] Listen, you can't play at that level and not be in physical condition.

[353] Obviously, there's going to be some athletes that are going to be able to jump higher, move better, move laterally faster, do those different things.

[354] and a lot of that has to do with a genetic makeup or what position you're playing in.

[355] But Michael always said it.

[356] He goes, it's the mental component.

[357] It's the mental component that gives me the edge.

[358] It's a mental component that allows me to win on a regular basis.

[359] It called it the last dance, and I was just like, when I looked at that year, to me, it was like an unforgiving race to winning.

[360] Everything was set up for that team.

[361] team not to win.

[362] I said, imagine going into a season knowing whether you won the championship or you didn't win, the team was going to be dismantled, the coach was going to be gone, this player wasn't going to be here, this wasn't going to be here.

[363] You as Michael as an individual, he knew he wasn't coming back.

[364] How many people would have just thrown it in?

[365] Right.

[366] For most people, that becomes a built -in excuse.

[367] Yes.

[368] You know, what's interesting, too, is back to the physical component.

[369] Certainly in the last year of his playing, if you were to have given his body a 10 at some point, it wasn't the last year.

[370] I mean, the guy at that point is wearing enormous icebags around his knees every time he sits down.

[371] It's not like his physical trajectory was going up and up.

[372] And I'd imagine even more his mental fitness had to make up that margin from what he was prior to that.

[373] You can maintain a certain level of physical fitness.

[374] and being able to move a certain way.

[375] But we know the body has limitations, but the mind doesn't.

[376] So being able to see things a little faster, understand the game a little better, and also to have better understanding of the mindset of your opponent, know where their strengths are, know where their weaknesses are, and be able to take that and know this is what I need now.

[377] I'm not going to be able to jump as high.

[378] I have a lot of miles on my knees.

[379] But remember, the reason for those ice bags was to allow him to play longer.

[380] Yeah, but they hadn't been required for whatever reason the first five years.

[381] I mean, clearly, you talk about repetitive injury.

[382] I mean, yes.

[383] People at the young age, they think they're indestructible.

[384] And as you get older, you start to, hey, I got to take better care of my body.

[385] I got to do different things.

[386] So each year, we made sure that, especially that last year, from a mental standpoint, And also knowing going into the season that Scotty was not going to be available.

[387] He decided to have back surgery.

[388] So now you're like, okay, we can either use what you said is use it as an excuse or how do we get even mentally stronger and continue to produce these results in order to win.

[389] One thing I found interesting about the Tiger documentary is that right out of the gates he was interviewed and he had won his first championship and his goal always was I want to be the greatest golfer to ever play not I want to win the PGA tour this year and for me again as someone who's not like Monaco or you or Michael Jordan I can't even conceptualize thinking that way like entering some not just I want to be the best among my peers but I want to be the best in history and it seems to me that Jordan was really active in writing his own story in that he would find villains and he would establish an enemy and he was good at creating a story and so I would imagine Scotty being out for him in some way is almost like oh even better I'm gonna fucking do this and I'm gonna do it without that like the story just got better because he's already won all the championship so almost in ways you're looking for the story to get it's got to top itself so this is a way for it to top itself wow now I'm gonna do it without Scotty I always say this I said motivation is entry level.

[390] When you're that talented and you've already won five championships and you're going down in history as possibly the greatest athlete to ever play this game, motivation is entry level.

[391] You don't need the external people cheering for you.

[392] You don't need that stuff.

[393] Everything is internal.

[394] This is all about elevation.

[395] This is all about elevating yourself.

[396] What burns inside of you that other people can't see, that other people can't touch?

[397] And it's those little things that you said about this can't be done.

[398] You can't do this.

[399] You can't do that.

[400] And it's not about proving those individuals wrong.

[401] It's about proving yourself right.

[402] It's like, yes, I can do this.

[403] Right.

[404] So in your book, Winning the Unforgiving Race to Greatness, we get to learn about some of the things that Jordan did, Colby did.

[405] What can an average person take from that?

[406] What possibly did they do that you could apply to yourself?

[407] First of all, the ability to win is in all of us.

[408] There's wins every single day.

[409] You've got to go out and capture those wins.

[410] You've got to understand where they are and use it to get you a step closer to whatever your ultimate win is.

[411] And you've got to know what you're chasing.

[412] People don't know what they're chasing.

[413] They don't know if they're chasing money.

[414] They don't know if they're chasing success.

[415] They don't know if they're chasing health.

[416] They don't know what they're chasing.

[417] You have to have a clear definition of figure out the small wins that will get you closer and closer to that end result.

[418] Reminds me of a conversation I had recently with a friend of ours who is an investor for a living and he'll lament about having sold something at 2x and it went to 4x and blah, blah, blah.

[419] And I said, well, you know, if you don't enter it with the definition of what a win is, you're going to forever be in the state of mind, right?

[420] If you enter into a stock and you don't say, well, for me, 2x is a big victory or 1 .5x is a big victory, then of course you'll always have dissatisfaction because you never ever identified what the win was.

[421] It's funny.

[422] We just had the Kentucky Derby just recently happened.

[423] Here's the interesting thing about when animals race.

[424] They don't know there's a finish line.

[425] And they'll just keep going and keep going and keep going.

[426] You as an individual, you have to know the beginning of your chase, the end of it.

[427] what the win is.

[428] Otherwise, you're just going to keep going.

[429] You're just going to keep going.

[430] You're going to keep going.

[431] And you maybe end up going to a place you don't want to be.

[432] Why is selfishness misunderstood and why is it required for greatness?

[433] So here's the thing.

[434] We're all selfish in our own way.

[435] We just give it different names.

[436] It's like me time.

[437] All right.

[438] Or here we go, man cave.

[439] or night out with the boys, night out with the girls.

[440] Those things are things you do for yourself.

[441] Nobody considers those selfish.

[442] If you take time to work out, people don't consider that selfish.

[443] If you take time out to meditate, people don't take care of that self.

[444] Those are all things you do for yourself.

[445] Now, when somebody asks you to do something and you give them the answer, no, now all of a sudden, you're selfish because it doesn't benefit them.

[446] you have to take care of yourself.

[447] If you don't invest in yourself, how are you going to invest in anybody else?

[448] And usually when people say you're selfish, what they notice is they see you separating yourself from that individual or from the pack because everybody likes to stay in the middle because that's where the comfort is.

[449] There's no selfishness in the middle of a pack.

[450] But once you start separating yourself, all of a sudden it's like, oh, did you see what they did?

[451] What are they doing?

[452] I can't believe they're acting.

[453] that way and you get this labeled stigma as he or she is being selfish.

[454] When you do become selfish, the end goal is not to be about you.

[455] The time you spent being selfish, it's so they can give back to others, so they can give more to others.

[456] But in order to do that, there has to be a time for themselves.

[457] Okay, tell me the value of being different and how that plays into succeeding or winning.

[458] requires you to be different.

[459] But different scares people.

[460] Here's what really separated me and my training business early.

[461] All the books and studies and everything I read told me what to think.

[462] This is how you train an individual.

[463] This is what you do.

[464] I had the ability how to think.

[465] And when individuals have the ability of how to think, that makes them different because they're not following the same footprint that everybody else is doing.

[466] I'll give you.

[467] you a great example.

[468] Michael was low on energy.

[469] There wasn't a book back out there that said, okay, you need to increase his protein intake.

[470] During the late 80s and 90s, everything was about carbs, carbs, carbs.

[471] I was like, no, you know what, in order to slow the digestive process, so I added a steak to his pregame meal.

[472] And everybody said, you're crazy.

[473] That wasn't what to think, that was how to think.

[474] One of the big things that if you've ever seen Michael do this, if you go back to your school days, this may still happen now.

[475] When you're really winded and you're breathing heavily, what are the coaches always tell you?

[476] Put your arms in your air, put them over your head.

[477] It opens up the lungs more.

[478] I'm like, I'm already breathing heavily.

[479] My lungs are pretty much open.

[480] So I always used to tell Michael, grab your shorts, because when you sprint real hard and you're running up and down the court, if you get an opportunity to lean on something, your body recovers so much quicker.

[481] Well, he's not going to lean against the table.

[482] So I just said, grab your shorts.

[483] When you're in that position, you have something to balance your weight off of now, so it's going to allow you to recover faster.

[484] Again, that's how to think, not what to think.

[485] Not always thinking about what's the right way, what's your way of doing it.

[486] Kobe used to come up to me all the time.

[487] He goes, he used to say, knowledge is power.

[488] And I would say, only if you use it for yourself.

[489] The way you gather knowledge and the way you perceive something may be totally, different than the way anybody else is.

[490] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[491] Now, one thing in your book I can't wait to hear the answer to is that waking up at 4 a .m. to exercise is bogus.

[492] So at some point, I must have been sleeping during this time, where sleep deprivation became a sign of success.

[493] And people always ask me, when is the best time to work out?

[494] whenever you can work out.

[495] Plain and simple.

[496] Now, are there advantages of working out real, real early?

[497] Yes, but they're so small.

[498] And for the average individual, it does not make a difference.

[499] Workout what's best for you where you can get the most results.

[500] Now, with Michael and my athletes, we had a particular time.

[501] We would either work out at 5 a .m., 6 a .m. or 7 a .m., because we wanted him to get it in early before practice and get it out of the day in case we had something to do late at night.

[502] And the reason we chose the three different times is because not all his games were played at the same time.

[503] Sometimes you'd play a game in New York and then you'd have to fly to L .A. So if you constantly work out at the same time, and this was another thing about being different, it's just like, all right, well, I need Michael's muscles from a physical standpoint and from a mental standpoint to be able to work at all these different time zones.

[504] So we would literally make the adjustments in our workout depending on the different game and whether it was a West Coast trip, an East Coast trip, whether he was going Pacific time, Central Time.

[505] So that way his body was ready at all these different times.

[506] But for the average individual, if you can't go to the gym and give you maximum effort at 4 a .m., then don't do a 4 a .m. workout.

[507] Well, I think people focus in on these things and they ignore the bigger issues, right?

[508] Like consistency.

[509] First of all, if you have maximized consistency, then you can start focusing on, oh, do you have higher HGH levels in the morning, blah, blah, blah.

[510] But people are generally leaping to this extraneous detail before they've even got the basics down, I think.

[511] It's fair to say, right?

[512] Oh, that's a great thing.

[513] It's just like the New Year's resolution thing.

[514] Everybody like, okay, I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to stop drinking, I'm going to stop smoking, I'm going to eat better, I'm going to do paleo, or I'm going to do keto, or I'm going to do no carbs.

[515] And they haven't been in the gym in nine months, and they go in and they try to do all these things at once, and they never master one thing.

[516] They never get consistent with one thing before they add something else, before they add something else, and they always fail.

[517] When I did the training early in my stages, I would never give my clients a nutrition plan in the beginning.

[518] I would say, all right, let's get into the workouts.

[519] Let's get you consistent here.

[520] Let's make sure everything is working correctly.

[521] Then from there, we would add a nutrition plan.

[522] Then from the nutrition plan, we would add a hydration plan, which is annoying big.

[523] And I'm very impressed that you haven't had to go to the bathroom yet either.

[524] I have to.

[525] I just haven't gone.

[526] so you said it great you need to get consistent and master i always say everybody wants to go to great well you got a master average first then you have to master good and once you've mastered that then you can start chasing greatness okay so now i'm going to ask some kind of theoretical questions because I am not a winner like you and Monica.

[527] Do you ever ask yourself, what is the value of winning?

[528] Why is it a pursuit?

[529] Is the pursuit to winning, a pursuit to happiness or contentment or fulfillment?

[530] Well, in the book, I asked all my athletes, and I've asked numerous people, I said, describe winning in one word.

[531] Kobe answer was, winning is everything.

[532] And what he meant by that is the feeling you get from winning.

[533] When you've won at something, there's this euphoric feeling.

[534] When your kids win at something, you have that feeling.

[535] When the people you care about, your teammates, other individuals, you have that feeling.

[536] To me, that's what they're chasing.

[537] It's that winning is everything sensation.

[538] It's that high they get that they can't get from anywhere else.

[539] That's their addiction.

[540] We're all addicted to something.

[541] That's their drug.

[542] Well, it's funny you bring up Kobe because this is the first time I really question myself about this.

[543] So there's that great documentary about him, Muse, and I want to be delicate with me saying all this because he died.

[544] I loved watching him.

[545] What he did for the city of L .A. is amazing.

[546] I have great admiration for him.

[547] But his dedication to winning, from my perspective, took a huge.

[548] price.

[549] There was a lot of fallout from his dedication to winning.

[550] Yes.

[551] If you listen to his teammates when they're interviewed, they'd just straight up say he's an asshole, but we won.

[552] Now, if you ask Shaquille O 'Neal's teammates about him, they'll say, greatest three years of my life being on a team with Shaquille.

[553] Now, Shaquille didn't have what Kobe had.

[554] He didn't have that psychotic obsession with winning.

[555] And as a result, he didn't win as much.

[556] He won, but he didn't win as much as Kobe and they'll have a different place in history.

[557] That documentary concluded and I thought, wow, what's the price to be able to lie on your deathbed and say, I won versus I'm on my deathbed and here's all my teammates who love me and I made their lives better and we all made each other's lives better.

[558] What are you going to value?

[559] Now, I have a best friend who watched it.

[560] We watched it on the same night next morning at work.

[561] We're talking about it.

[562] He was like, that's my new Bible.

[563] I'm Black Mamba.

[564] I'm going to be Kobe.

[565] I want to win.

[566] I'm like, I took the opposite, which is winning can cost a lot more than some people want to admit.

[567] It does, but only you can determine that price.

[568] Now, did all the teammates that were with Kobe that won with him, did they benefit?

[569] They definitely did benefit.

[570] They have a place in history.

[571] They won championships.

[572] They probably, if they went to another team because they had a championship predigree, they probably made more money.

[573] So it's just how you look at it.

[574] In the book, again, winning, I talk about.

[575] about there is no balance.

[576] I've not known one highly successful person that's fully balanced.

[577] People love to talk about balance after they become successful.

[578] They tell all the other individuals, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.

[579] And to me, balance is not about adding.

[580] And everybody try, when you tell them they need more balance in their life, everybody wants to add more stuff.

[581] Kobe deleted.

[582] And so him to get closer to balance, it wasn't about the addition it was about the deletion because winning was the greatest thing on that scale i always asked this question who wants zero happiness obviously nobody raises their hand so who wants zero success nobody raises their hands who wants zero love nobody raises their hand and then i'll say what's the number on a perfectly balanced scale it's a zero now what i'm saying is you have to know what's important to you.

[583] Well, I imagine if I could guess at what you're really saying is, look, winning's not for everyone, but if you want to win, there are some hard fucking facts about it.

[584] So it's all up to you.

[585] I'm not saying everyone in this world has to be a winner, but if you want to be like Michael Jordan, so the last dance has been this great bridge of interviewing people because everyone watched it.

[586] We talked to Bill Gates, and I say, you must have felt some connection to him.

[587] him, despite doing drastically different things, that you both were just singularly focused and hellbent.

[588] And that there was probably a lot of personal casualties associated with that.

[589] And that seems to be consistent.

[590] I wish we talked to the Bill Gates or the Steve Jobs or somebody that took the shack route and also became those things.

[591] So it's just very interesting.

[592] I guess people ultimately have to decide who they want to be and what story they want to tell about themselves.

[593] I have one for me and you have one and Monica has one.

[594] And I don't think I'm saying no one should try to be a winner.

[595] But from my perspective, I often look at the pursuit of winning is a results -oriented life.

[596] And I don't believe that a results -oriented life is the most fulfilling.

[597] But that's my story.

[598] But see, here's the thing that that's your win.

[599] That's your definition of a win.

[600] Your definition of winning could be completely different than somebody else's.

[601] Michael's definition of winning is different.

[602] Colby's definition of winning was different.

[603] Dwayne's, Serena Williams, Bill Gates, all these individuals, their definition of winning is different.

[604] And that's why in the book, I don't tell you what to do because your whole life people are telling you what to do.

[605] This book is about you deciding what you want to do and what your wins are in life.

[606] Yeah.

[607] And not to mention, you did win by so many.

[608] standards.

[609] Now you're at the point where you're saying, like, process is the goal, but you have a lot of results under your belt that you chased for a long time and got.

[610] And now you can say, oh, it's process.

[611] But you did go through that same thing.

[612] You're right.

[613] I wanted to be funniest on stage at the groundlings.

[614] I didn't want to be middle funniest.

[615] I certainly wanted to be funniest.

[616] Right.

[617] Yeah.

[618] And I agree with you.

[619] You get to define what winning is.

[620] And yeah, currently at 46, winning for me is enjoying process, regardless of outcome.

[621] At certain stages, earlier in the stages of you said, just what Monica said, when you got on state, hey, damn, I'm going to win this thing.

[622] I'm going to be the funniest person on this stage.

[623] Now, you won that.

[624] Now you see and perceive winning, and the race that you're in to win now is different than what somebody else's race may be.

[625] Now, you go back to an individual who's 20 years younger than you are who's trying to get to where you're at, their perspective of winning back then maybe is totally different than what it is now.

[626] Yeah, it evolves for sure.

[627] I just have a quick curiosity question.

[628] You also got to observe Rodman a lot.

[629] I did.

[630] And this is going to be just a total guess.

[631] First of all, what a physical phenom.

[632] I mean, of all the bodies that ever existed in the NBA, his is my favorite.

[633] And his conditioning was off the charts.

[634] Unbelievable.

[635] And if I told you, Dennis's pre -game meal before every single game, a bucket of KFC.

[636] Oh, wow.

[637] Right, right.

[638] So this is where I want to play armchair therapist for one second.

[639] Because Michael had a very prominent father figure and he had a great relationship with him, I think taking instruction from you and listening was easy for him.

[640] And I imagine for Rodman who did not have a male presence.

[641] in his life, like myself, I find it absolutely insufferable to receive instruction from a male.

[642] And I look at Rodman and I look what he did on his own and I just try to imagine.

[643] Can you imagine if he had been working with you what you could have done with that canvas?

[644] So Michael actually asked me, he goes, hey, Dennis would work out on the road all the time.

[645] He goes, I want you to, after you get done working out with me, find out when Dennis works on.

[646] I just want you to observe him.

[647] So I would watch Dennis work out, and honestly, there was no structure, no plan, no nothing.

[648] One day, he just said, I'm going to ride the bike.

[649] Other day, he's going to lift.

[650] He just did whatever he, what he wanted.

[651] And I tried to kind of talk to him.

[652] But one thing you had to understand with Dennis is structure was not in his winning vocabulary.

[653] If you tried to structure him, it was actually going to go the other way.

[654] So his language of winning is completely different.

[655] than Michael's language of winning, but the result of winning was the same.

[656] Yeah, it's almost like he craved chaos.

[657] Like, he excelled in chaos, which weirdly is something I think I too have.

[658] It's like I like I like it gets chaotic.

[659] That's when I feel like I shine.

[660] So, yeah, I've loved watching the difference between those two, both of them incredible executors at all times.

[661] You remember that story where Dennis disappeared to Vegas.

[662] I can't remember if it was for, it was just supposed to.

[663] for a day pass and he didn't come back until like 48 hours.

[664] Yeah, yeah.

[665] So they run this drill in practice where everybody runs around the court.

[666] And when the coach blows the whistle, the person at the end of the line sprints to the front.

[667] And they just keep going until the coach said.

[668] So they had all said, okay, hey, let's teach Dennis a lesson for being gone for 48 hours.

[669] So what happened was when it was Dennis's turn, when they blew the whistle, and Dennis was at the end of the line, and he ran to the front.

[670] Everybody else that was in the back of the line couldn't catch Dennis.

[671] He was just so far ahead of everybody, and they was just like, this is, well, maybe we should send him to Vegas more often.

[672] Yeah, MJ says, like, don't let him get at the front.

[673] And he had probably been awake for four days and somehow still outpaced all those folks.

[674] Yeah.

[675] Yeah.

[676] Yeah, so you just try to imagine what he could have done if he could accept guidance.

[677] It's a little heartbreaking.

[678] That's what made Kobe so frustrated with Shaq because he was just like, man, if Shaq, if you had the same discipline and the work ethic that I had, we wouldn't be talking about winning three championships in a row.

[679] We'd be talking about 10, 11, 12.

[680] Yeah.

[681] Yeah.

[682] But that was a different thing.

[683] They had the ingredients to definitely make history.

[684] Right.

[685] And that was one of the things that they would always butt heads about.

[686] Mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

[687] And I guess I'm Shaquille in this story, and you guys are Kobe, so.

[688] And all winners.

[689] Yeah, Shaquille wanted to be a personality, and he continues to be one.

[690] And his, like, his kind of, you're right, his singular focus was not rings.

[691] It was Shaquille.

[692] Right, exactly.

[693] That's a great way to put it in.

[694] He's a phenomenal business person.

[695] Obviously, on TNT, he's one of the main.

[696] guys over there.

[697] Shaquille does what Shaquille wants to do, and that's winning to him.

[698] He wants to wrestle.

[699] He wants to be part of WWE.

[700] He goes, does that.

[701] He wants to be a cop.

[702] He was a fucking Long Beach Port Authority police officer while he was a Laker.

[703] He wants to star in all of his commercials.

[704] He does that.

[705] He DJs at some of the biggest events out there.

[706] So being able to win in all those different things, that was important to him.

[707] Kobe was, this is what I want to win at right now.

[708] It was so fun to watch.

[709] Holy smokes.

[710] You know, living in L .A. What a show all the time.

[711] Yeah, just incredible.

[712] Well, Tim, it's been such a pleasure talking to you.

[713] And people who want to win at whatever the thing is they want to win should read winning the unforgiving race to greatness.

[714] Next time we talk, I want to know how on earth the rock looks the way he looks.

[715] But that'll probably take another two hours.

[716] I can give you some insight into that.

[717] Yeah.

[718] I've heard from people who have shot with him and done movies with him that virtually the whole schedule operates around his workouts.

[719] Like the workouts are number one.

[720] And to your point, priority number one, without this, all other things don't exist.

[721] Exactly.

[722] And I applaud him for being able to identify that and just say, hey, this is what it takes.

[723] We have a saying in AA that whatever you put in front of your sobriety will be the first thing you lose.

[724] When you relapse.

[725] Like, there has to be step one that you build everything else off of.

[726] Listen, Dax, I know that's an area that you've been very public with, and that's awesome that you're willing to share your story with it.

[727] But this kind of goes to what I was talking about, your wins every single day.

[728] You literally chased it and caught it for 16 years.

[729] Yeah.

[730] For 16 years.

[731] And then, like I said, briefly, and one day.

[732] Winning decided not to take your call.

[733] Now you've got to start it all over again.

[734] Yeah.

[735] And then you wake up and you've been traded to the Buccaneers and you just hope you can Tom Brady.

[736] That's a great example.

[737] Was he trained to the Buccaneers?

[738] No, he wasn't traded.

[739] But I woke up on a different team.

[740] Let's just say that.

[741] Okay, yeah, exactly.

[742] But see, being able to laugh at it and admit it, that's winning.

[743] Thank you, Tim.

[744] I appreciate that.

[745] So everyone, please buy and read, winning the unforgiving race to greatness.

[746] It's been awesome talking to you, and I can only imagine how many great off -the -record stories you have at a dinner party.

[747] I hope I find myself at one someday.

[748] Thank you so much.

[749] All right.

[750] Take care of everyone.

[751] Thank you so much.

[752] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate, Monica Badman.

[753] Welcome.

[754] So you're back from your trip.

[755] Yes, despite many, many tire challenges we've returned.

[756] We blew six spare, well, not spares, regular tires on the trailer.

[757] We blew a tire on the way up, didn't have a jack, had to drive up on a bunch of garbage to get one of the tires of the trailer up in the air so that we could take it off.

[758] I had a spare, spare got us to Jackson Hole, replaced a spare on the way.

[759] home from Montana, blue one, put the spare on, blew the next one, drove on one wheel to a Walmart parking lot, went to sleep in Idaho, got up in the morning, got two new tires, that puts us at four, then on the way back, one blue again in California, then had to go into Victorville, get two new tires for that side of the trailer.

[760] So all in six, well, I still 01, there's still a rim that's destroyed with no tire on it that I've got to replace before I return the trailer to Clay Cohen.

[761] We left Sunday at about 11 a .m. I thought we'd get home that night.

[762] Instead, we were at a Walmart parking lot.

[763] Then we left there at 9 in the morning.

[764] I thought, oh, we'll be home at, I don't know, 4 p .m., home at 8 p .m. barely made it.

[765] That's a long one.

[766] I saw you saw Adam Grant.

[767] He sent me a picture.

[768] Oh, he did.

[769] Yeah.

[770] Yeah.

[771] Adam was sweet.

[772] We went to, I guess we're not allowed to even talk about it, but we went to a meeting of folks left and right.

[773] some major players from the right and the left to chat about topics in Montana.

[774] It felt very illuminate, but at the same time, everyone there was kind of normal.

[775] You know who I got to see and really chat with?

[776] Who?

[777] Eric Lander.

[778] Oh, cool.

[779] Oh, he's just, he's even more fun in person than we thought he would be from that.

[780] That's awesome.

[781] Zoom call.

[782] Yeah, he's so smart.

[783] And playful.

[784] He was really playful in real life and very tall.

[785] You know who else is really tall in real life?

[786] Atul Gwandae.

[787] Really?

[788] Yes.

[789] Like, you see him from across the room.

[790] Tall, lean, handsome.

[791] Cool.

[792] Kind of like a reunion of all our guests.

[793] There were many of our past guests there.

[794] How fun.

[795] And probably some future ones.

[796] I think I got us, Sid Arthur.

[797] Oh, wow.

[798] From Emperor of All Malady's.

[799] Yeah, that's amazing.

[800] Can I describe what he look like?

[801] Sure.

[802] Okay.

[803] I don't know if I'm allowed to be talking about this.

[804] They did say don't talk about it.

[805] At any rate, there was one scientist there or doctor.

[806] I couldn't tell.

[807] Every time this person spoke, they were very knowledgeable on biology.

[808] Also looked like a rock star.

[809] Leather jacket, kind of scruffy beard, Indian, long hair.

[810] I immediately was like, this is Jeff Goldblum from Jurassic Park, rock star biologist.

[811] And I was mesmerized by him for two days.

[812] And then I found out on the third day, that was Sid Arthur.

[813] Wow, cool.

[814] Yeah.

[815] Yeah, I was very excited about that.

[816] Oh, Ashton Amila, that episode, we didn't do a fact check.

[817] And one thing I wanted to add was you can call NFT's art. Okay.

[818] According to Ashton.

[819] Okay, you can call him art. And also, I want to say that he told me after the fact, and we were supposed to put it in there, that the NFT is going to cost about $800.

[820] Oh, great.

[821] Yeah.

[822] We didn't know the real number at the time we recorded, but now we know.

[823] Okay.

[824] So stoner cats, if you're in.

[825] Well, this is Tim Grover, and very cool because he got to spend so much time with the big dog, who we love.

[826] Mike Jordan.

[827] Yep.

[828] Okay.

[829] So I'm going to get into some facts.

[830] I mean, he pretty much knows this stuff.

[831] He said 15 players on an NBA basketball team.

[832] Okay.

[833] That is true.

[834] Turns out to be true.

[835] That is true.

[836] That story was crazy.

[837] he gave 14 letters and skipped Michael.

[838] That is insane.

[839] It almost feels apocryphal.

[840] It almost seems, but I...

[841] Am I saying it right now?

[842] Apocryphal.

[843] Yeah, that's right.

[844] And I was accidentally saying hypocrisful sometimes?

[845] Yes, I think so.

[846] Yeah, a little bit.

[847] That's all right.

[848] That's okay.

[849] It happens.

[850] You learned.

[851] It feels too convenient.

[852] I mean, I think it's a true story, but it's almost like the end of race of 270, where it just feels a little improbable.

[853] Right.

[854] Well, it is the sim.

[855] Yeah, it is the sim.

[856] That's true.

[857] So anything's possible.

[858] Good point.

[859] Speaking of the sim and race to 270, Charlie, his wife, Erica, broke her knee really badly.

[860] She tore her ACL, her MCL, and her meniscus.

[861] It's really bad.

[862] Oof.

[863] Poor thing.

[864] And she's an athlete, so it's really a lot for her.

[865] She's having surgery tomorrow.

[866] So sending her a lot of well wishes But she heard it on a bird scooter Uh -huh She fell off of one And apparently it happens a lot Like they, you know, I don't want to get in trouble But people get hurt on it Many people have gotten hurt on bird scooters And she was leaving a restaurant Called the Red Bird Oh wow And then yesterday I was with her And this crazy bird flew onto her head and like jostled her and it kind of hurt the knee it was all it was really scary Hold on what was the setting Were you guys at a zoo or an aviary?

[867] No we were in her house In the backyard yes you were in the backyard In a bird landed on her head Well a hawk was chasing This colorful bird And then the bird flew into the fence It was really scary and sad and then and then it was just kind of on the ground like moving a little bit and we thought well maybe it's just stunned which it was because all of a sudden it just flew over and flew onto Erica's head oh my goodness so the next stop was Erica's head yeah so if anyone's missing because it did seem domesticated oh so in the and they've they've captured it they did well we had to yeah because we don't want it to fly on somebody's head so we captured it I think they actually did let it free yesterday night once they knew the hawk was not around.

[868] It was a big day.

[869] Hold on.

[870] How were they containing the colorful bird?

[871] We just put a, like a box over it that had holes in it.

[872] Oh, okay.

[873] All right.

[874] And anyway, that was a weird simulation, like too many bird things.

[875] Right.

[876] Is there any kind of a lottery called like Bird Hunter or like she should be.

[877] looking into the positive side of this.

[878] That's true.

[879] Let us know in the comments.

[880] Yeah, if there's any, maybe a company to invest in with a bird in the title.

[881] Maybe she should invest in bird scooters.

[882] No. I don't think so.

[883] Was that enough of the bird scooters?

[884] For Erica.

[885] Okay.

[886] What was the initial shoe deal that Jordan was going to sign?

[887] In 1984, he was 21.

[888] He signed a five -year deal with Nike, worth $500 ,000 per year.

[889] $500 ,000 a year.

[890] It was a struggling company back then.

[891] Jordan preferred either Adidas or Converse.

[892] But Nike agreed to give Jordan a signature line, which earned $3 .14 billion in 2019.

[893] Just that year alone.

[894] Oh, my God.

[895] That means over the last 20 years that things created like $50 to $100 billion.

[896] It's amazing.

[897] Wow.

[898] Because of a dude.

[899] Well, they are the best style, too, as we know.

[900] We love them.

[901] Yeah, we love them.

[902] Animal Instinct 2 .0, that's our preferred model.

[903] I get lots of compliments on that.

[904] Oh, Husson was there.

[905] Oh.

[906] I roomed with Husson.

[907] Oh, my gosh.

[908] Yeah.

[909] And he's a doctor when it comes to shoes because he had a nice pair of threes on.

[910] I said, oh, do you only roll with threes?

[911] He's like, no, I, you know, I dance all over the spectrum.

[912] and I attempted to brag to him and I showed him a picture of those crazy ones I bought.

[913] I've only worn him once at the airport when we went to Hawaii.

[914] They're like sea through bottom.

[915] They're incredible.

[916] Oh.

[917] And I showed him a picture and he immediately said the name.

[918] He's like, oh, yeah, I got those.

[919] And then I showed him a pair.

[920] I had ordered and he said, you're going to regret that.

[921] They're not as good.

[922] Yeah, when they get to you in person, you're not going to like it.

[923] Well, at least you have a person now to consult.

[924] Now I do, yeah.

[925] That's great.

[926] Okay.

[927] Is shack a cop?

[928] Port Authority.

[929] Oh, okay.

[930] Well, he was named an honorary U .S. Deputy Marshall in 2005.

[931] Oh, wow.

[932] And is an honorary deputy for the Broward County, Florida Sheriff's Department.

[933] Uh -huh.

[934] And I think he was Los Angeles Port Authority.

[935] Let's see.

[936] Which gave him the right to carry a gun with him at all times, I believe.

[937] There's not that much stuff on here about it.

[938] People seem to not be as interested.

[939] in as I was.

[940] I mean, the notion that while playing for the Lakers and winning championships, he was also a port authority?

[941] That's bizarre.

[942] Port of Los Angeles police officer Shaquille O 'Neal stars in new public service announcement aimed at attracting new port police recruits.

[943] Interesting.

[944] Very interesting.

[945] Maybe he did it to help recruit.

[946] Well, I think he really wanted to carry a gun and a badge, too.

[947] That's just what I think.

[948] I feel like I talked to him about it.

[949] on your weekend?

[950] No, no, no, no, years ago, years ago, when he used to live across the street from Tom Arnold.

[951] Sure.

[952] And he'd be in his driveway a lot.

[953] And I think he had a Crown Victoria.

[954] Now, I could be imagining that part, but I think he had a Port Authority car, which is why I know all this.

[955] Oh, could you just have the car, though?

[956] No, I talked to him, and he's like, no, I'm a police officer.

[957] I'm a Port Authority, as you just read, I'm a Port Authority police officer.

[958] Wow.

[959] Yeah.

[960] All right.

[961] How would they get a costume for him?

[962] Well, it's not called a costume.

[963] and a work outfit.

[964] Oh, I mean.

[965] Like when they send them into the locker room to pick out your Port Authority outfit, there couldn't have been anything that.

[966] He had, I wonder if he paid for that or are the city of Los Angeles.

[967] They probably had to cut a couple and sew them together.

[968] Okay, patchwork.

[969] They have a seamstress on staff.

[970] Oh, they do at the Port Authority?

[971] Yeah.

[972] We talked a little bit about morning exercise versus other parts of the day.

[973] And he said, you know, just do it when you can.

[974] on this five benefits of morning exercise helps you avoid distractions you'll reap the mental benefits all day to make healthier choices oh it says you'll sleep better and boost your metabolism I like all those I like better sleep in higher metabolism but I agree with him if you can't do it in the morning don't be like well I couldn't do it yeah any version that includes not doing it isn't isn't better than any version including doing it.

[975] Just do it.

[976] I suppose unless you woke up, you set your alarm for 2 a .m. got up and worked out and then went back to sleep.

[977] That'd probably be disruptive and bad for you overall.

[978] Yeah.

[979] If you can get a nice pump in.

[980] We can ask Charlie, ding, ding, ding.

[981] Let's see.

[982] We talk a little bit about Kobe, just to make very clear that we have a lot of reverence for Kobe.

[983] Oh my God, I love Kobe Bryant.

[984] Yeah.

[985] Yeah, I guess I sound a little critical when I talk about him.

[986] I'm just pointing out personality.

[987] types like I want to want to win at all costs right you know and there are people that do want to win at all cost and I love watching them perform but me personally I don't it's not worth it yeah I think I may have already told this story but during Monica and Jess season one I had to go on a date with someone that just recommended and we went to breakfast and it was fun it was like a totally fine nice little breakfast date we said bye and we walked to our cars and then like one second later he texted me he said oh my god Kobe died oh wow and and it kind of like weirdly like we just like kept texting kind of all day like weirdly bonding yeah in some bizarre way like while we were eating our breakfast this crazy event so sad so tragic i think i was shooting you know i was that date?

[988] It was.

[989] Oh, yeah.

[990] It happened right before I was trying to rent a helicopter to fly to sat in the middle of the desert.

[991] It was January 26th, 2020.

[992] January 26th, 2020?

[993] It was right before COVID, yeah.

[994] Oh, wow.

[995] His birthday's only a day before mine.

[996] It's so sad his daughter was on the plane.

[997] The whole thing is unimaginable.

[998] Yeah.

[999] Anyway, that's sort of a sad way to end it, but that's That's it.

[1000] We love Kobe Bryant.

[1001] We do.

[1002] Don't ever, don't ever borrow a friend's trailer and not inspect the tires really thoroughly to make sure that they're, from a normal main brand of tire, no dry rod on the tires.

[1003] Okay.

[1004] And if you're going to travel through the hot desert, you know, at 80 miles an hour, you get, you just say, it'll save you time to get new tires on it before you leave.

[1005] That's my big takeaway.

[1006] That's a good lesson.

[1007] Yeah, I think it's good, it's good solid advice to live by.

[1008] It's good to end on some lessons of the day.

[1009] A ounce of pre, ounce of preparation, no. Prevention's worth a pound of cure.

[1010] Yeah, I would have never, if you told me like, oh, you got to go put four new tires on that before you leave, I'm like, no way, two hours, might.

[1011] But it cost us like maybe 20 hours.

[1012] Eish.

[1013] All said.

[1014] That's, that's okay.

[1015] Still a great trip.

[1016] Still a great trip.

[1017] Still a success.

[1018] Great.

[1019] All right.

[1020] Love you.

[1021] Love you.

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