Shaquille O'Neal

[0] Hi, my name is Shaquille O 'Neill.

[1] I feel enigmatic about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[2] Back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens.

[3] I can tell that we are going to be friends, are going to be friends.

[4] Hello and welcome to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[5] We have a good show lined up for you today.

[6] In fact, I'm going to upgrade it.

[7] to an excellent show.

[8] That's good.

[9] Excellent show today.

[10] I'm joined, as always, by the lovely and talented assistant to Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian.

[11] That is so nice.

[12] Wow.

[13] Feeling generous.

[14] And I also, I think I'm more protective of you now that you are carrying twins.

[15] Yeah.

[16] And you have this human life in you.

[17] I'm less, I don't want to lash out at you.

[18] I want to be nice to you.

[19] Well, how come you didn't want to just be nice to me just to be like a decent person, you know?

[20] I don't know.

[21] And then when I give birth, are you going to go back?

[22] Yes.

[23] The minute those children are out of your body, I'm going to come after you like a Rottweiler.

[24] Come on.

[25] I'm sorry, that's the way it works.

[26] Once those children have exited your sacred womb, you are back in my sight.

[27] Listen, there was the potential.

[28] But now the children are there.

[29] And so I just feel like, you know, I'm protective of you now.

[30] Have you noticed that?

[31] I'm always saying, when we go someplace, you'll say, I'll go up and get the, you, your, you know, your soda or whatever, and I'll be like, I'll go, I'll go.

[32] And then you say no, and I'll go good.

[33] And I'll sit and you'll go get it.

[34] And you'll say it loud enough so people here, and that way you could say, I offered to stand there for her, but I actually like standing and walking, so I don't mind it.

[35] Soda and I were done with the taping of the show.

[36] And we went to an outdoor cafe here in L .A. It's a chain called Lemonade.

[37] And there's a bunch of people sitting around and people are wearing their masks and, you know, taking him off when they sip or eat.

[38] But everyone was being very good.

[39] Sonan, you know, knew what I wanted.

[40] And she said, I'll go get the food.

[41] And she started to go up.

[42] And I said, let me go.

[43] I'll go get the food.

[44] And you sit.

[45] And you said, no, I like standing.

[46] And I'm good.

[47] You just sit here.

[48] And then I waited until Sona got almost to the door to go inside and get the order of the food.

[49] And I shouted, Sona, I really think because you're pregnant, you should sit.

[50] And I should go.

[51] And you said, everyone looked around and looked at me. And then you said, really, it's okay.

[52] And you went in.

[53] And then I shouted, I offered to everybody.

[54] I would just love the story that comes out in the, like, tabloids.

[55] Like Conan makes pregnant, assistant grab him food.

[56] And so I think that you were like, I offered it.

[57] And I was like, yeah, I think everybody, everyone heard.

[58] Yes.

[59] Yes, and I said I offered it in this very fake way.

[60] Yeah.

[61] Like, I was just covering my legal basis.

[62] But.

[63] Yeah, I didn't mind.

[64] I actually wanted to.

[65] I did.

[66] No, you like to stand.

[67] That's what I keep telling people.

[68] Yeah, because I like, if I go home, I just sleep all day.

[69] So it's good to not do that sometimes.

[70] Yeah, I do that and I'm not carrying two human beings inside me. That we know of.

[71] I'm just clinically depressed.

[72] Yeah.

[73] Or that we know of, yeah.

[74] Well, Gorley, what about you?

[75] You know, do you think that you've treated, you treat Sona any differently?

[76] She's carrying human life?

[77] No, I love and adore Sona regardless of what state she's in.

[78] I respect her as a woman and a human being and lift her up at all times.

[79] And I'm covering my legal basis, too.

[80] Who writes your stuff, Gourley?

[81] My lawyer.

[82] Oh, God.

[83] He's great.

[84] He's great.

[85] You two are awful in very different ways.

[86] Yes.

[87] Yes, that's the thing I'm always trying to get out there, is that I'm awful in an obvious way.

[88] Gourley is truly terrible in insidious quiet ways.

[89] No. You know?

[90] No. Yeah.

[91] I'm awful just down the middle, and you're awful on both extremes.

[92] God, that's hard to do.

[93] I think I'm the devil who's got horns and a red body, and I'm laughing maniacly, and flames are licking.

[94] up around me. And you're the devil that's more like the blonde candidate, you know, that everyone really likes and you win the election and then someone notices there's a 6 -66.

[95] I wish I had that kind of charisma.

[96] Oh my God.

[97] Are you kidding?

[98] I'll take it.

[99] I just think as long as we've agreed that you and I are both the quintessence of evil in different ways.

[100] I will not say that I'm the golden boy or Mr. Great or anything like that, but I'm not at your level.

[101] Mr. Great's a terrible See what I mean?

[102] I know.

[103] I wouldn't call myself Mr. Great.

[104] Well, guess what?

[105] Nobody would.

[106] It's an awful nickname.

[107] That's why I'll never be at your level because I don't have the kind of machinations to get where I need to be with that stuff where you're ready to go with that stuff.

[108] I'm not.

[109] Yeah, I suppose.

[110] You have a gift.

[111] A true artist.

[112] Some work in paints, others in clay.

[113] I work in hostile cruelties that are flung out at all.

[114] Odd angles like shards of shrapnel.

[115] Yeah, you're like the Jackson Pollock of cruelty.

[116] You just spurt it out into splatter paintings.

[117] But it's not my fault because I'm a troubled alcoholic.

[118] Oh.

[119] Yeah, see, you didn't see that coming.

[120] No. And my work is going to be worth so much more once I'm gone.

[121] Yeah.

[122] These podcasts will sell at auction for hundreds of millions of dollars.

[123] Well, they could, do you know about, are they FNTs?

[124] Is that right?

[125] NFT.

[126] Do you know about NFTs?

[127] Well, apparently you don't know anything about it.

[128] You've said it three different ways.

[129] Hey, lay off.

[130] Do you know about a WD die?

[131] About how to hear about it, about it, about it be, bed a bo?

[132] NFTs are non -fungible tokens where we could do a special recorded episode of this podcast that only one person can buy.

[133] And it would be a collectible, a digital collectible.

[134] Let's do that.

[135] Okay.

[136] Let's do that.

[137] Let's, we have to get Jeff Bezos hooked on this podcast, right?

[138] That's step number one.

[139] Don't know how we do that.

[140] I hope someone's writing this down.

[141] Step two, we make an episode that's not available to anybody.

[142] Then we contact Jeff Bezos through back channels.

[143] Still don't know what that means.

[144] And we tell him the podcast, and it's pocket change for him.

[145] It's a paltry $300 million.

[146] And he goes like, huh, I do kind of like that podcast.

[147] I wonder what's in that secret one.

[148] And we go, oh, wait to you here.

[149] Jeff Bezos and he goes, all right, here's $300 million.

[150] I take my cut and you guys split $50 ,000.

[151] What's a huge?

[152] No. Wait, what?

[153] No. Oh, my God.

[154] Well, we'll figure out the details of how you get screwed later on.

[155] We figure it out before this thing even gets produced.

[156] We split it?

[157] Wait a minute.

[158] Let's stick with this plan.

[159] Please stick with this plan.

[160] Okay.

[161] This is the cell, an exclusive episode of Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[162] And we get a bidding war going between Bezos and Gates.

[163] That guy loves to laugh.

[164] And we get them just battling it out for the secret, unheard episode of corner by needs a friend.

[165] It could be theirs for the, I mean, they have this in their couch.

[166] This is couch change.

[167] What do we even talk about?

[168] $300 million.

[169] We just shit talk Amazon the whole time.

[170] Yeah, exactly.

[171] Exactly.

[172] We shit talk.

[173] And then, no, they finally get it and it's mostly ads.

[174] That we've sold ads on the episode or something.

[175] Yeah.

[176] Missing and Maine.

[177] If you want to be able to move.

[178] move and stretch.

[179] Magoosh.

[180] You can walk.

[181] Magoosh.

[182] Be great for it was mostly ads.

[183] But Bezos was like, eh, that kind of sucked, but it was only 300 million.

[184] There'll be ads for like a falcon, a gold robot that will do your bidding made of solid gold, you know, stuff that Bezos won.

[185] Anyway, I love this idea.

[186] Can you look into this idea?

[187] What's it called?

[188] An NF.

[189] NFT.

[190] I think I got it right the first time.

[191] Non -fungible token.

[192] All right.

[193] A non -fungible.

[194] token podcast that will be sold at a private auction to billionaires.

[195] Highest bid takes it.

[196] I think we're on to something.

[197] But before we do that and make a fortune, we have to get to our guest today.

[198] We're very excited about this.

[199] My guest today is a basketball legend.

[200] Now, a lot of people, you throw around the term legend.

[201] I know people throw it at me all the time, whatever.

[202] This really is a legend, this gentleman, in his 19 seasons in the NBA, he was a 15 -time All -Star, three -time NBA Finals MVP, and four -time.

[203] World Champion.

[204] Now he's an analyst on the Emmy Award -winning sports show inside the NBA alongside Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Ernie Johnson.

[205] I am legitimately really thrilled to talk to this gentleman today.

[206] Shaquille O 'Neal is here.

[207] Welcome, Shaq.

[208] You feel enigmatic.

[209] Yes.

[210] So you're not sure how you feel.

[211] Because you're three different people.

[212] Okay.

[213] How am I three different people?

[214] Let's explain keep in mind all the conans that i meet are fabulous yes there's the conan that i'm dealing with now professional 20 30 years in this business top of the food chain when it comes to this style of show oh you're the best yes then there's the funniest guy in the world colan where you just come and we all have a script and you just say forget the script and you steal the show oh that's we've had some good times doing that no you you've had some good time because i couldn't even get my choice And then there's the third Conan, the family conan that I used to see at the Beverly Hills Hotel at the diner.

[215] And then when I tried to talk to you while you're with your kids, you'd be like, hey, Conan, you just give me this growl.

[216] I never remember growling at you.

[217] I think I was...

[218] You growled at me one time.

[219] I was like, hey, Colin.

[220] I think you tried to take my bacon.

[221] I had bacon on my plate.

[222] And I saw the largest hand I've ever seen in the world come into view and try and take my bacon.

[223] And you got really upset.

[224] As a fellow Irishman, you know what bacon.

[225] means to us.

[226] And in a formal life, I can tell that you are a werewolf.

[227] I'm a vampire, but you're a war wolf.

[228] Okay, let's talk about that.

[229] What makes you think I was a werewolf?

[230] Because when I try to grab your bacon, you try to...

[231] Oh, yes.

[232] That's true.

[233] That's true.

[234] The bacon incident.

[235] But also, I have a sexuality, almost, uh, I don't know, wild animal, ferocious sexuality.

[236] Don't you think, Shaquille?

[237] I wouldn't know nothing about that.

[238] Oh.

[239] Well, okay, you shut that down really fast and I appreciate that.

[240] I'm really glad.

[241] You know, So it's so funny because you've had so many great nicknames in your career.

[242] The great chactus for a while.

[243] Yes.

[244] Wasn't you the giant shamrock when you were with the Celtics?

[245] Everything starts with the big.

[246] So it's big cactus, the big shamrock, the big Aristotle.

[247] Yep, the big Aristotle, which makes sense to me because, you know, I get to talk to all these people.

[248] So far, you have been the most philosophical and interesting in terms of the way you look at the world.

[249] You said, well, I talked to three different Conans, which one do you?

[250] you what we're talking about.

[251] They call you the big Aristotle because you really do have an interesting worldview.

[252] You really do think about things in a fascinating way.

[253] And this is one thing that I really thought about because I'm in Atlanta, right?

[254] So it says that I can go outside right now and I know that L .A. is on the West Coast, right?

[255] Yep.

[256] And I can't see L .A. So how come when I go outside and look at the moon when I can see the moon?

[257] So is the moon closer than L .A. is?

[258] Think about that, Conan.

[259] If I go stand outside right now and face west, I cannot see L .A., California.

[260] But if I go outside and look up and see the moon, the moon is right there.

[261] It's right there, Conan.

[262] So is the moon, the distance from where I'm standing to the moon, is it closer than the distance from here to the L .A.?

[263] We'll never know.

[264] We'll never know.

[265] Well, wait a minute.

[266] Just because you leaned into the mic and said, we'll never know, doesn't mean we'll never know.

[267] I could go on and on about the mass of the moon.

[268] and how, you know, versus the mass relative of the coastline.

[269] But you're right.

[270] That's what they say.

[271] But I don't know because I've never been there.

[272] And then my second thing is I take a lot of cross -country trips, right?

[273] You know how they say the world is like this?

[274] When I'm driving in my car, I don't suddenly go like this.

[275] Oh, wait.

[276] Are you going to start to say that the world?

[277] So you think the earth is flat.

[278] I'm not saying anything.

[279] I'm just saying I drove from here to California, here to Montana, here in New York.

[280] And not at one time did I did this.

[281] or when I fly to China and I one time did the plane go, oh!

[282] We'll never know.

[283] Yes, no, no, no. Okay, is this going to be the new podcast?

[284] Yes, we'll never know.

[285] We'll never know.

[286] Yes.

[287] I'm just saying.

[288] Well, no, I know you're, you can just say I'm just saying, but you are not for real a flat earther.

[289] I know you're not, because I am not.

[290] I just like to talk about theories and discuss them with intelligent people such as yourself, Ms. Sona, Moveshian, and my good friend, Mad Gawley.

[291] I'd just like to, you know, discuss, you know, certain days.

[292] God, you're, well, first of all, let me tell you something, Shack.

[293] You will never talk to a bigger Lakers fan than Sona Monsasian.

[294] Isn't that true, Sona?

[295] The Lakers are very important, not just to me, but to my whole family.

[296] And so thank you for everything that you gave us.

[297] I mean, it was unbelievable watching you play.

[298] and, you know, the championships, the third was just the best.

[299] So this is huge for me, for sure.

[300] Well, thank you.

[301] I appreciate it.

[302] Is that name, Chukoslovakian?

[303] No, it's Armenian.

[304] Armenian.

[305] I guess, we'll never know.

[306] I knew it.

[307] I knew it.

[308] Damn.

[309] I knew and I knew it.

[310] Oh, man. We're changing the title of this podcast.

[311] This podcast, you, the force of your past personality, Shack is such that this podcast we've done, you know, whatever, 120 episodes you can come on and in 10 minutes into the first episode, you have changed the title of the podcast and the whole theme of the podcast, which is we'll never know, a mystery show.

[312] You know, what I love about you, Mr. O 'Brien, is that you always make people laugh.

[313] I've, I told you this before.

[314] Like, you're one of the best on the fly people I've ever seen in my life.

[315] Oh, thank you very much.

[316] Like, I've been around you three or four times and you just, when I say you had me, cracking.

[317] Like, a lot of people don't, I laugh a lot of people, but a lot of people don't have me cracking them.

[318] You can just, and like, it's like a rare talent, so I just want to appreciate you.

[319] Well, wow, I, you are a hilarious guy and obviously one of the most talented people ever, so having you say that is so nice.

[320] We've done, I'll just explain to people, because I work at Turner and you work at Turner, many times you and I have been at events and they've asked the both of us to go out there, sometimes with Anderson Cooper, they always have like a script, and then you and I decide, No, no, no. We say it as we're, we say it to each other as we're going out to hell with the script.

[321] We're not going with the script.

[322] So Anderson Cooper will start trying to ask his questions and you and I will just start doing whatever we want to do.

[323] And it's really fun.

[324] And I think Anderson Cooper's hair when we met him was black.

[325] And it went, it went white because we freaked him out so many times over the years.

[326] It's so much fun.

[327] Have you ever bombed doing improv comedy?

[328] Because I get a lot of offers to do.

[329] to stand up, but I am terrified.

[330] I've been in a lot of comedy clubs.

[331] If that first joke don't go off, you're done for the rest of the night.

[332] It's so interesting you said that because you have been, if I think about holding a basketball and being on national television and a championship is on the line, I immediately soil myself the way a baby would.

[333] That very idea of that horrifies me. And so it's so interesting when someone like you, it's like I'm talking to a NASA space pilot who's had to reenter the atmosphere at just the right angle 35 times or he'll burn up and he does it and he tells me oh my god I'm so scared of speaking in public or I'm so scared my joke won't work so I find that fascinating I would think you would fear nothing so you said a NASA guy had to reenter space 35 times I made that up okay because I was going to say we'll never know okay all right that's the last time I promise I'm taking away I have a referee's whistle here, and you just used up all year we'll never know.

[334] No, you'll get one more.

[335] You get one more, but you really do.

[336] You get, because I've seen you in so many situations.

[337] I've seen how people act around you.

[338] You can't blend in.

[339] You are 35 feet tall, and you can't just blend into the crowd.

[340] You could not find a person in China, in all of China in the most rural section who doesn't know who you are.

[341] You couldn't find anybody on this earth who doesn't know Shaquille O 'Neal.

[342] does that I see sometimes how people react around you and I think that's got to be tough one I don't consider it tough I consider it lucky because from zero to 16 well forget zero to 16 from 10 to 16 when I really started playing basketball nobody knows who I was so then at 16 when I got my first article and said Coles Odeal best in the U .S so I went from being a nobody to being the best player I went through my little arrogant face and my high school teammates this is what they did to me which is very brilliant I went to a high school nine through 12 was 289 students graduation class was 39 so you know when I thought I was better than I'd walk on one side of the hall the whole school would move to the other side of the hall I go to the lunchroom and sit down everybody would leave the cafeteria I go to practice and I go shoot at one end all the guys are shooting so then I was like okay it's funny ha ha and then my guys said hey man you didn't get here by yourself.

[343] So that stopped me from being arrogant.

[344] So really the whole school was in on it.

[345] They taught you a lesson.

[346] Yes, the whole school was on it.

[347] Two, I realize that I am lucky.

[348] And three, I like people.

[349] I like meeting people.

[350] My childhood is very unorthodox.

[351] I'm from Newark, New Jersey.

[352] I moved to Hinesville, Georgia, then I moved to Germany, then I moved to San Antonio, Texas.

[353] I went to college in Louisiana.

[354] So I think I was programmed to be, uh, a person that speaks the language of people.

[355] I don't see color, but just see people.

[356] So when I'm out, I just have to be myself.

[357] I remember coming out and meeting all these marketing firms, and the guy would have to say, hey, we have to create an image, and my father just slammed this down on the table.

[358] We don't create no image.

[359] Image is reality.

[360] And I was like, Dad, what does that mean?

[361] He said, brother, you can't sell the people something that you're not.

[362] So he said, what are you?

[363] I said, well, I'm funny.

[364] He said, you got to sell that.

[365] I'm nice, I'm curious, I'm respectful, you got to sell that.

[366] You say, because if you try to sell yourself as holier than thou, it will catch up with you one day.

[367] So ever since day one, I just, you know, been who I am.

[368] And if it ever gets to a time where I don't feel like being bothered, I'll just stay in the house and watch Netflix.

[369] But most of the time when I'm out, I can never be mean to kids.

[370] Like even now with the COVID thing, like when kids come up, it's hard for me to say, no. It really is.

[371] Yeah.

[372] So I love children.

[373] I love people And then I also realize that it's lucky Because I haven't played in 11 years And people still know who I am I'm amazed when I go to the store Little kids grab their mom and go Mom, that's him, that's him So I just consider myself lucky I've had a long run I got my first article in 1989 And people still know me to this day Hopefully it doesn't end It'll probably end when I purchased This old folks home that I'm looking at And I check myself in Is there room for me too?

[374] Can I check it with you?

[375] Yes.

[376] You know, I would like to live in a retirement home with you.

[377] And I think we'd have a really good time.

[378] We would.

[379] How's the food?

[380] How's the food at Shaq's Retirement Village?

[381] The food would be great.

[382] We can leave whenever we want.

[383] Oh, I like that.

[384] Yes, we can leave whenever we want.

[385] Right, right.

[386] It'll be a lot of amenities there.

[387] Yeah.

[388] I am ready to go right now.

[389] I am ready to go.

[390] I don't want to wait until retirement age.

[391] I want to go right now.

[392] I'm going probably check in when I'm 70.

[393] Okay.

[394] Well, I'm going now.

[395] I'll go ahead.

[396] and you can call me and I'll let you know how it's going because I'm very fascinated by this idea right now.

[397] That'll be a hell of a show.

[398] Me and you had the old folks home for a week.

[399] Yeah, let's pitch that now.

[400] Let's pitch that to Netflix.

[401] You know, I can tell because I have seen you so many times and you are, you'll sign every autograph.

[402] You're such a lovely person.

[403] And I was reading up on you and I get the sense that so much came from, there's your mom and then your stepdad who was very, very, good at laying down the law.

[404] Is that fair to say?

[405] Very good at laying down the law.

[406] He did it in a very unorthodox way.

[407] He did it in a tough discipline way.

[408] He would probably, if he lived in these times, he'd probably get in trouble for that.

[409] But I don't fault him for that.

[410] I praise him for that.

[411] He passed away about nine years ago.

[412] I praise him for that.

[413] Every time I ride around, I look up and I say, thank you.

[414] Thank you for being hard on me. Thank you for being tough on me. Thank you for making me a leader and not a follower.

[415] He had a high school education.

[416] but he wanted me to have a college education.

[417] And every time a professional athlete made a mistake, I would get in trouble.

[418] You remember Lindbys?

[419] Yeah, sure.

[420] So when Lindbis passed away, that was probably my...

[421] He was a prospect for the Celtics, and it was a huge deal.

[422] I'm from Boston.

[423] It was a huge deal.

[424] Everyone was excited about such a tragedy, very talented, and I think he was celebrating that he was going to go to the Celtics and be probably the best, you know, one of the best players of the decade.

[425] And I think he tried cocaine and it killed him.

[426] So that was my love.

[427] last ass weapon.

[428] I hope I could say that on the show.

[429] So my father came in tears everywhere, enrage.

[430] If you ever do drugs, I'll kill you.

[431] And I'm like, I don't do that, sir.

[432] And you just start grabbing and push me around.

[433] He's like, I can't believe he did Coke.

[434] And my young, dumb self, I was like, well, we don't drink Coke, Daddy.

[435] We drink Pepsi.

[436] Oh, my God.

[437] Yeah.

[438] He was not serious.

[439] He was just going to cook so then after he roughed me up, he sat me now.

[440] And that's why I never did drugs.

[441] I was like, man, this kid come from the same area I had.

[442] He could been the number one pick.

[443] He's going to make a difference for his family and one mistake.

[444] Got him that.

[445] And then, you know, the fear I had from my father, I never did that.

[446] Every time an athlete did something, every time an athlete went broke, he'd come in, you mother, la, la, la, la. Oh, my God.

[447] Yes.

[448] So anytime any athlete, any athlete in the world did anything your dad would get mad at you.

[449] Yes.

[450] And he would always start.

[451] So if you ever, if you ever disrespect a little kid, if you ever talk back to your coach, if you ever do drugs, if you ever drink and drunk?

[452] Like, he would, it was just, so that's why, as a kid, I never did any of that, ever.

[453] Like, I'm 48.

[454] I'm probably only drunk four times in my life.

[455] Well, actually, didn't your dad catch you, uh, you drank a beer once?

[456] And your dad caught you, right?

[457] He called me and he made me drink a 12 pack to the head.

[458] He said, oh, you want to be a soldier?

[459] Wow.

[460] He made me stand up.

[461] You know, and that's, this is why I hate beer.

[462] Hate it.

[463] Because you had that one 12 pack, and you're like, that's it.

[464] I don't want it.

[465] I think it was maybe 12 or 13, but.

[466] You'll never know.

[467] Okay.

[468] That's your last one.

[469] That's your last one.

[470] That is your last one, sir.

[471] All right.

[472] Yes, okay.

[473] No more.

[474] Do you, how did the influence of your stepdad, has it had an effect on how you've raised your kids?

[475] Yes and no. One, I've never had to discipline my children.

[476] I was disciplined because I grew up in a certain area, and I was always a follower.

[477] Like, I could remember one time.

[478] I was watching the Hulk.

[479] True story, I was watching the Hulk.

[480] And I was outside, I just felt, I felt strong.

[481] And I saw these kids messing with a car.

[482] So what did I do?

[483] Ripped the door off, ripped the windshield wipers off, bust the window.

[484] I just used to do juvenile delinquent stuff.

[485] And my father was like, man, you're going to be a follower.

[486] Somebody tell you go rob, somebody going to do it.

[487] Somebody tell you jump up bridge, you're going to do it.

[488] So I got punished and discipline because he was trying to stop me from being a follower and wanted me to be a liar.

[489] My kids grow different.

[490] The only thing I stress to my kids is education, respect to other people, have fun, work hard, and play hard.

[491] The motto in my house is, in order to touch daddy's cheese, you have to have three degrees.

[492] That's the model in my house.

[493] We have that rule in my house, but it's about actual cheese.

[494] I'm just very, I really have a thing about my Parmesan.

[495] I don't want anyone touch it.

[496] But I've been lucky.

[497] I have six perfect children that understood Daddy got to go to work.

[498] Like I had a rule in my house on game day.

[499] And it was a game we played with the kids.

[500] And I always just tell them, okay, Daddy going to take a nap from 12 or 3.

[501] And whoever makes noise, Daddy's going to bite them.

[502] So, you know, when they were young, Daddy would turn into Dogman.

[503] So I'd open and go, and go, Dogman is hearing the kids start running.

[504] Then I take them and I act like I'm going to bite them.

[505] But I want, I just go, and they would love that.

[506] I would tell them, hey, Daddy, going to take a nap from 12 to 3.

[507] If I hear any noise from anybody, dog man will bite you.

[508] They'll go, okay, Dad, and they were perfect.

[509] They wouldn't make a noise.

[510] They wouldn't make a sound, and they understood.

[511] And I have perfect children.

[512] So, you know, when people ask me, do I use the tactics that my father use for me or my children, the answer is no, because I don't have to.

[513] I mean, it's got to be such a rush to have the phenomenal success.

[514] When you think about what's bigger than the NBA, and for you to come in and have that kind of success at such a young age.

[515] And I don't see how people don't lose their minds.

[516] And how old were you when you started playing?

[517] I started playing at 13.

[518] Right, but in the NBA, how old were you?

[519] Oh, 19, 20.

[520] Yeah, Jesus.

[521] I mean...

[522] So to overcome that, I would always picture my mother sitting watching me on TV.

[523] So I said to myself, okay, I got to do everything positive.

[524] So when she sees it, she smiles.

[525] I'm a mama's boy, and I can tell you you're a mama's boy, too.

[526] So I'm able to stop time and say, okay, before I say this, I do this, will it upset my mother?

[527] So that's the first thing that kept me out of trouble.

[528] And then every now and then when I don't think and I do something crazy, she'll call me and correct me. Like, for example, I was, we've always been broke.

[529] So I've never, ever had a lot of toys for Christmas.

[530] So even now, Jeff Bezos loves me because I'm Amazon's biggest purchase.

[531] Whenever I see something on Amazon, I'll just buy it.

[532] So at one point I had like 65 cars.

[533] So one day she saw MTV cribs and she didn't like it.

[534] She's like, baby, there's a lot of people out there that don't have jobs and, you know, this and that.

[535] I don't like you showing your stuff off.

[536] So I try not to do that as much anymore.

[537] Right, right.

[538] So, you know, she's like baby, a lot of people can't have a 70 down square foot house with a pool and a full court gym and all that stuff.

[539] So I don't think it's classy for you to be showing off like that.

[540] So like I said, I try not to do that.

[541] I just tried to stay out of trouble because I really have a lot of respect for my mother and I never want to let her down.

[542] Because when I was coming up, my dream was to make, true story, $8 million for 10 years.

[543] That's how the money was.

[544] And I had it.

[545] I was going to have a little house.

[546] I was going to buy my mom my house.

[547] I was going to buy myself a Jimmy Blazer and one black Mercedes -Benz.

[548] Then when I was coming in college and, you know, learning about inflation and this and that and learning about business and the numbers were different.

[549] So when I first came in, it was $40 million.

[550] I was like, oh, my God.

[551] First thing I got to do, buy my parents' house and pay it off in case I'm one of these knucklehead athletes that go broke.

[552] You know, I get my mom a house.

[553] So my mom didn't want a house.

[554] So I said, hey, mom, let's go, let's go house shopping.

[555] So I get to this house and Orlando's a beautiful house.

[556] So you like this house?

[557] And she was, oh, yeah, I like it.

[558] You should do this.

[559] You should do that.

[560] I was like, cool.

[561] Now I took the keys and I gave it to her.

[562] And the tears that, you know, were on her and my father's face.

[563] And my father, he didn't cry like, he just, thank you, man. Thank you for listening.

[564] So I just always wanted to, you know, make them proud.

[565] And, you know, they always kept it real with me. I would say mission accomplished, Chuck, I would think you.

[566] You can check that off.

[567] I heard us, I don't know if it's true, but I heard that you, when you were very young, you went into, was it a Rolls -Royce dealership?

[568] Yes.

[569] And you were interested in buying a Rolls -Royce.

[570] And I don't know if it was, I mean, you tell me if this was a racial incident or what.

[571] I mean, I don't, look, I don't, I've, I've, I've lived in South Georgia.

[572] I've lived in Texas.

[573] I know what that looks like.

[574] I'm not sensitive whatsoever.

[575] You know what I mean?

[576] I don't always go there.

[577] He was an older gentleman, and I went in there.

[578] See, I like spending money, but I try to be smart about it.

[579] Like, for example, I don't need a car for $600 ,000, right?

[580] I don't.

[581] I can afford it, but I don't need it.

[582] So I was just looking at every car.

[583] How much is this one?

[584] $3 .40.

[585] How much is that one?

[586] $4 .75.

[587] How much this is $5?

[588] So the last one I asked is this.

[589] I guess he got frustrated because, one, I had some sweatpants and some flip flops.

[590] I was looking like, wasn't looking like a guy that just signed a $120 million contract.

[591] So then I said, how much is this one?

[592] I mean, he just looks at, you, you sure ask a lot of questions.

[593] Can you afford it, Sonny boy?

[594] He was older.

[595] I just said, excuse me?

[596] He said, no, you just ask him a lot quick.

[597] Can you afford it?

[598] And I just said, okay, no problem.

[599] Give me that one and that one.

[600] You bought two?

[601] Yes, my account called me. You spend a million?

[602] I was like, shut the hell up.

[603] He just disrespected me. I'm buying these cars.

[604] You don't need to.

[605] Yes, I said, no, I'm getting it.

[606] Here's the problem, Shaq.

[607] Any car dealer listening to this podcast right now is going to be like, that's it.

[608] He's going to buy 15 cars.

[609] You know, you asked a question about race.

[610] Listen, I'm not sensitive.

[611] I had a high school coach who I know loved me, but he was from Texas.

[612] And I told this story during my Hall of Fame speech.

[613] He used to call me Big Son Bitch all the time.

[614] Hey, Big Some bitch.

[615] Great game.

[616] Big Son, but that's just how people in Texas.

[617] talk.

[618] But the way he treated me, I know he loved me. So again, listen, I was raised by military drill sergeant, lived in Georgia, we're in school in Louisiana.

[619] I didn't seem it all hurt at all.

[620] So nothing you can say or do bring my feelings.

[621] And then if my feelings do get hurt, prepare to get your ass whooped.

[622] Okay.

[623] Well, I just, I just got scared.

[624] YNK.

[625] You're getting loopholes.

[626] There's so many loopholes.

[627] I feel like I'm in the Matrix with you.

[628] How old are you, Sala?

[629] I'm 38.

[630] 38.

[631] I need a list of your products.

[632] I thought you were like in your 20s or something.

[633] Wow.

[634] Oh, thank you very much.

[635] That's awesome.

[636] Well, I'm pregnant.

[637] So maybe it's like a glow.

[638] Well, congratulations.

[639] Shack, she's pregnant with twins.

[640] She's carrying two twin boys right now.

[641] I'm jealous.

[642] You want to be pregnant, Shaq?

[643] No, I want twins.

[644] Oh.

[645] I got names for you.

[646] Marco and Marcus.

[647] Marco and Marcus.

[648] Okay.

[649] That would get confusing.

[650] No. Wouldn't it?

[651] No, Marco and Marcus.

[652] I think if you had a Marco and a Marcus, the kid wouldn't know for 10 minutes which one was in trouble.

[653] Okay, what about Mark and Marco?

[654] Why do they have to...

[655] Why?

[656] Because...

[657] Why not chip and chop or flip and flop?

[658] No, because their nickname would be the M &M boys.

[659] The M and the M and the M boys, yes.

[660] Do you say why not chip and chip and chop?

[661] chop or flippet and flop.

[662] I don't know.

[663] Then they're, okay, I didn't know he was going.

[664] Mark and Marco.

[665] You know what?

[666] Mark and Mark.

[667] You know what?

[668] Sona, I've never known a bigger Lakers fan in my life.

[669] This is one of the great Lakers of all time.

[670] This is the man. When he tells you the names of your twins, those are the names of your twins.

[671] Yes, I know.

[672] I agree.

[673] They're Mark and Marco.

[674] That would be nice.

[675] It works for me. Absolutely.

[676] You, I don't know if it was your mom or someone's mom intervened because you always conducted yourself very well on the court.

[677] And we're going to get into the subject now of a certain Mr. Charles Barkley.

[678] But you and Mr. Barkley had an altercation on the court and you got into it.

[679] Maybe a scuffle started, a little bit of a little bit of a dust up between you two.

[680] And right after the game, you get a phone call.

[681] And who's the phone call from?

[682] Phone call is from my mother and his mother on threeway.

[683] I was like, hello?

[684] She's like, this mama Barkley, y 'all cut that shit out.

[685] I was like, hello?

[686] And then my mom was going to go, she killed.

[687] Me and Charles 'am on the phone, y 'all need to stop that.

[688] You need to go in the hallway.

[689] I was like, yes, ma 'am.

[690] And then after I shook Charles Hang, I called my mom by and I was like, how do you know his mom?

[691] She said, oh, we've been best friend for 20 years.

[692] Never knew that.

[693] Yeah, Charles Barkley and my mom were best friends for 20 years, and I never knew that.

[694] You didn't know it, so you will only find out when you get into a fight on TV with Charles Barkley, the phone rings after the game and it's Charles's mom and your mom on three way on three way yes and they're saying you need to stop that out boys look up to y 'all you definitely don't need to be fighting cut it out I don't want to hear nothing I don't want to see nothing don't say nothing in the paper go in the hallway shake his hand and it's over so you know I love that I never disrespect anybody's mom so when his mom called and said it I was like yes ma 'am yes mom will barker And then, you know, a lot of people, especially when me and Charles have heated conversations, they think we don't really like each other.

[695] But I finally saw his mom and my mom together and they're playing cards and it was the same thing.

[696] You don't know how I play no spades.

[697] They're just, you know, talking trash and having fun.

[698] That's hilarious.

[699] You saw them actually.

[700] They talk trash to each other.

[701] And then they start to fight and then you guys have to call them up and say you go out there and you shake hands with Mama Barkley and you just, no more fighting.

[702] They had a great.

[703] a great, you know, relationship.

[704] Now, Charles likes to go after you.

[705] I don't know why.

[706] Maybe it's jealousy.

[707] He says, I had him on this podcast.

[708] I talked to him.

[709] And he was saying, yeah, well, Shaq has a thin skin.

[710] And whenever, you know, we're on the air.

[711] And I disagree with him, he gets frustrated and says, you don't have any rings.

[712] You don't have any championship rings.

[713] That that's his defense, that's what he goes to.

[714] Do you think that's because?

[715] It's true.

[716] I mean, how can you?

[717] that's like a guy that's like a guy that's just a regular guy that's funny and has a podcast thinking he's the great Conan on Brian.

[718] Oh my God.

[719] You know what?

[720] I agree with you.

[721] I agree with you.

[722] I'm just saying.

[723] It's like, okay, we do similar stuff, but when it comes to being the top of the top, Conan and Brian is top three, as always has been.

[724] So he's an expert in this space.

[725] Yes, yes.

[726] Because if I have to ask you, how do you know?

[727] Yes.

[728] I don't believe you.

[729] So, you know, he's a great player won a good top 50, but he really doesn't know what it takes to get to that next level.

[730] And that's why I tell him, I'm like, hey, you're over there yelling and screaming and this and that and you know, you think your word is the law.

[731] But no, no, no, no, no. You didn't get to the mountain top.

[732] Not only did I get to the mountain top, I was the king of the mountaintop.

[733] Three times in a row.

[734] Three generations in a row.

[735] I was the king.

[736] Shakilicus O 'Nilicus.

[737] I ruled.

[738] I ruled the last.

[739] of Los Angeles with an iron fists.

[740] Do you ever put all the rings on and just show them to him?

[741] Do you ever do that?

[742] No, I don't.

[743] I don't.

[744] But, you know, again, so, but, you know, we all just look at the game from a different angle.

[745] But I think people, hopefully they know and understand, I have G -14 classification.

[746] I've done it all.

[747] I've, you know, I've been what everybody's trying to be.

[748] I've been in all those positions.

[749] So, you know, a lot of times when I speak, I just try to speak from facts.

[750] And Barclay, I'm just going to be honest with you when he was on this podcast, he said, uh, Shaq doesn't use icy hot.

[751] Shack, Shaq doesn't know the general.

[752] He doesn't, he doesn't go to the general.

[753] That's not where he gets his insurance.

[754] That's the kind of, that's the kind of shit that this man's talking about when he's on, uh, behind your back.

[755] And I thought as a friend to you, I would tell you what this man is saying.

[756] Now, first of all, icy hot.

[757] Put your, uh, thing on mute, Miss, Miss Movis in.

[758] Yeah, just cover your ears.

[759] Just cover your ears.

[760] Just cover your ear.

[761] I trust me, she's heard it all.

[762] She was in the Navy for, Tell up to about a year ago.

[763] Okay, got it.

[764] Okay, so.

[765] Don't worry about it.

[766] Yeah.

[767] We always used to see icy hot in the locker room.

[768] And one day I kind of had like a fire bruise and the guy rubbed it, but he rubbed it too high.

[769] So during the game, my little guy started getting hot, like really hot.

[770] Like, I thought something was wrong.

[771] And he got to the point where I was like, hey, man, I think I need to go to, I need a doctor.

[772] Like, you know, my little guys were on fire.

[773] So he said, oh, I think I put the icy hot too high.

[774] Oh, my God.

[775] So then he said, all right, you don't have to play the rest of the game.

[776] So now I'm going to take a shower.

[777] Boy, I thought I was in hell.

[778] It gets worse, right?

[779] It gets worse.

[780] Yes, it gets worse.

[781] So then I'm in there screaming, ah, ha, and there was a Spanish janitor in there.

[782] And he said, compadre, you got to use milk.

[783] I'm like, what?

[784] So you got to use milk.

[785] I said, what are you talking about?

[786] He said, cap station is hot pepper.

[787] So we Spanish people, when we eat hot pepper, the milk calms it down.

[788] Yes, yes.

[789] So I said, okay, I gave him some of it.

[790] money, to go to the thing in milk.

[791] So now I'm in the shower, pour milk on my boys.

[792] And the guys coming in there looking at me like, what the, what the hell are you doing?

[793] But the milk actually worked.

[794] So then when I meet with icy hot, I was like, you know what?

[795] It's hot.

[796] You guys, this company works.

[797] Wait a minute.

[798] That is your testimonial for icy hot?

[799] Yes, it is.

[800] It set your testicles on fire?

[801] Yes, it did.

[802] Oh, boy.

[803] I've never felt a pain like that in my mind.

[804] life.

[805] You know what they should do?

[806] At the end of the commercial, they should put a quick little circle of your head, right?

[807] At the end, it's a disclaimer.

[808] And it should say, just don't put it on your, you know, just don't put it on your junk.

[809] And, you know what I mean?

[810] It's got to have like a little, you know what I mean?

[811] Just don't put it, you know where.

[812] And that just pops up, right?

[813] It did.

[814] So then with the general, it was this, it was this Brongo tour I always used to see in college outside the campus with a for sale sign, $1 ,400.

[815] It was raggedy.

[816] So I get the Pell Grant.

[817] The Pell Grant is $2 ,000.

[818] So now I'm like, I'm about to go get this car.

[819] Everybody else on the team got a car.

[820] I need this car.

[821] So I go get the car and the guy says, hey, you got some insurance?

[822] I'm like, what the hell is insurance?

[823] He says, Shack, I can't let you take this car without insurance.

[824] So now I go to all these places, 300 a month, 200 a month.

[825] I'm like, I ain't a way I'm going to be able to afford this.

[826] I may have to go tell this guy I can't afford a car.

[827] So then I see this little thing that says, it's a general.

[828] And I go in the general and they give me a policy, something I could afford.

[829] I think it was like $40 a month.

[830] I have full coverage.

[831] So the reason why I decided to go with the general is because before I became the figure, the character known in the shack, it was just a regular guy who didn't have anything.

[832] And they gave me insurance.

[833] So it's a lot more people that are not as big time as we are.

[834] And, you know, they have houses, they have kids, they have bills.

[835] they really can't afford the $400, $500 insurance, so they need affordable insurance.

[836] So this is why I want to tell them about the general.

[837] And this is why I'm with the general.

[838] So, you know, a lot of people think I just take these deals just to be taken.

[839] If I have no affiliation with your company, I will not take your money ever.

[840] I believe you.

[841] And I do think I should get some money from the general now and from Icy Hot because I brought it up on my podcast.

[842] Well, I can hook you up.

[843] Well, I'd like you to hook me up with someone because I get paid for ads.

[844] we get paid for ads on this podcast.

[845] That's what's going to be feeding Sona's children, right, Sona?

[846] Mark and Marco, Mark and Marco, or Marco and Marcai.

[847] Oh, I like that one, too.

[848] That's what's going to...

[849] I like that one, too.

[850] Mortimer and Mortimus.

[851] I like that one, too.

[852] Okay, man, you're easy.

[853] Maximiliano and Maximiliano Lo.

[854] I went too far.

[855] It was one too far.

[856] I did.

[857] I apologize.

[858] But, yeah, I think I should get some money because I talked about the general, the general and I see hot.

[859] They were both discussed in a very flattering way on this podcast that goes out to a lot, a lot of people.

[860] Speaking of the hookup, I tried to hook Charles up with a commercial.

[861] I got Ernie and Kennedy a commercial, but Charles was too big time for us.

[862] Oh, is that true?

[863] Yeah, you know, so, you know, we still had a fabulous commercial.

[864] Maybe he just, they saw some tape of him and they didn't, maybe they saw his golf swing and they were like, nah.

[865] No, his, his theory is he doesn't want to be on TV more than twice a year.

[866] That's what he says.

[867] Yeah, he doesn't like overexposure.

[868] You know, you guys are so good together.

[869] You know, I've had the pleasure of being around you guys because we all work for the same company.

[870] And I've been around you guys.

[871] I'm a huge fan of your show, the personality, mix of personalities between, you know, you, Kenny Smith, Sir Charles, Ernie Johnson.

[872] something happening there that I see other shows trying to copy and they can't get it right because what you guys have is real.

[873] It's hilarious to watch and also incredibly informative, but it's just great entertainment.

[874] I really do think you guys have one of the best group chemistries I've seen on television.

[875] And it's not rehearsed.

[876] You realize that if we're going to keep you up after 12 o 'clock, you don't want to hear boring stats, so we've got to make you laugh.

[877] Charles is real quick, just like me and you, can say something.

[878] And he doesn't care what you.

[879] he says, that's also an advantage he has.

[880] I'm quick.

[881] Kenny's not that quick.

[882] And Ernie is quicker than Charles and myself.

[883] And Ernie is the gatekeeper.

[884] He'll keep it professional and then he'll let us go out of bound for a couple of seconds and then he'll reel us back in.

[885] Okay, well, I have to be, you know, I know you're an honest guy.

[886] Charles was not nice to me on this podcast.

[887] I'm not going to say that.

[888] It's not that he wasn't nice to me. He was very honest.

[889] Some would say brutally honest.

[890] I said, hey, you know, Sir Charles, I'm 6 '4, you know, about 200 pounds.

[891] You know, I work out.

[892] I got quick hands.

[893] Couldn't I have made it?

[894] I started to say, couldn't I have made it in the NBA?

[895] And he shut me down so fast and so brutally.

[896] You can play in this era, not my era.

[897] This era, you can play it.

[898] Could not, because.

[899] Tell me about this.

[900] What's different about this era?

[901] I could play.

[902] And by the way, quick message to everyone out there.

[903] You're holding a, what is that?

[904] You're tearing a piece of tissue paper.

[905] You're tearing a piece of tissue paper.

[906] What does that signify?

[907] This area is softest tissue paper.

[908] Oh.

[909] Yes.

[910] Yes.

[911] What?

[912] Well, first of all, I'm going to make it clear to everyone.

[913] I said it, email it, tweet it out.

[914] I said it.

[915] So, all right.

[916] So what is it about this era?

[917] Because I do think.

[918] I don't know.

[919] I just, it's just different.

[920] I don't know.

[921] Well, first of all, I mean, I've seen you guys, that was a brutal physical game that you were playing in the 90s.

[922] 80s, 90s, a brutal physical game.

[923] Not the same today.

[924] And this is all I know.

[925] So you want me to watch what we're watching now and praise guys like they're great players?

[926] I can't do it.

[927] Steph Curry's great.

[928] KD's great.

[929] LeBron, of course.

[930] Harding and all that But I just can't do it I don't know I've seen I've seen and looked at the eyes of Michael Jordan Coming at you I've seen Dominique Wilkins I've as a kid I've seen Larry Bird and Karene And you know I've seen the bad boys of Detroit What they did to the Lakers What they did to Mike when you know A young Michael Jordan This is all I know And my father did a good job of making stuff hard He never told me how great I was He didn't tell me, he used to take all my trophies and put him in his house.

[931] Like, he let me, he let me celebrate him for a while and he'd be, all right, bring me the trophy.

[932] So now that, you know, he's passed away, I have all my trophies and they're sitting up there.

[933] Oh, wow, look at that.

[934] Look at that.

[935] Yeah, they're all up there.

[936] But his mission was to, bro, you're not that great.

[937] Okay, you won one championship, but Corrine won six.

[938] Let me see, go get six, tough guy.

[939] All right, you got two.

[940] You got the little back -to -back.

[941] You get the golf clap.

[942] Wow.

[943] Get three.

[944] Oh, you got three.

[945] Okay, you think you're big man. Get four.

[946] Oh, you got traded.

[947] No, you got traded.

[948] You know, people think you're done.

[949] Let's see what you got, big man. And after I got my fourth, and then when I retired, he came in and again said, thank you for listening.

[950] And he kind of said, I didn't want to be hard on you, but I knew that you could be something special, and I knew that you weren't soft.

[951] Because he said when he met me at two years old, he had to discipline me and I didn't cry.

[952] and he knew I wasn't one of those soft babies.

[953] So he didn't want me to follow down some of the things that he did growing up in Newark, New Jersey.

[954] So he was always going to be hard on me. And I thank him for it.

[955] And, you know, I also got to give Kareem credit because they used to always throw in Kareem's face.

[956] Oh, Shaq's one of the best big man ever.

[957] And Kareem would say he hasn't won a championship yet.

[958] And then with Kareem having that G -14 classification, I can't whine and cry about the great Kareem speaking of truth.

[959] Yeah.

[960] So now when I say similar stuff to these kids today, they get all bidden out of shape.

[961] But before I change, I'll go to Matt Gawley's house and steal all his guitars.

[962] He won't get much for him.

[963] I'll tell you that much right now.

[964] I have a question.

[965] Yeah.

[966] Lady Gaga's dog handler, they said it was a dog ring.

[967] Is that true?

[968] I mean, is there a such thing where people steal, like, those dogs?

[969] Those dogs?

[970] It's a French bulldog, and I think people can get a lot of money for them.

[971] It's sad, but yeah, I think there are people that.

[972] I never knew that.

[973] that target well we'll never know wow it's not how you do it man wow now Matt you don't how dare you well we'll never know if I did it right first of all Matt you gotta lower your voice and you have to say it slow you'll never know you'll never know and then Matt if you want to be really sexy you got to add the HB you know what the HB is no the homeboy echo you'll never know no That's the homeboy echo.

[974] You know, it's funny because you talk about people that you're indebted to.

[975] It's hard to believe that it's been now a little over a year since Kobe passed.

[976] And I know that's a very, very painful subject.

[977] But I've always been struck by you guys didn't always get along, but you have been very honest always about how much you think.

[978] He helped you, that his presence on the Lakers helped you and pushed you.

[979] Wasn't it that we didn't get along?

[980] It's just that we didn't agree on everything.

[981] But not agreeing on everything and not getting along is two totally different things.

[982] Yeah, yeah.

[983] I was probably our fault for letting people think we didn't like each other.

[984] As you know, I'm the master of marketing.

[985] So he would say something to his guy, I would respond.

[986] I would say something to my guy, he would respond.

[987] And what that did was put all eyes on us, right?

[988] Everybody wanted to know, oh, what's yak and Kobe doing?

[989] What's yak and Kobe doing?

[990] But if you look at it, on the court, he's looking for me and I'm looking for him.

[991] Yeah.

[992] We were competing against each other so much that it didn't matter what the other earthlings were doing.

[993] I look at the statute of the house and be like, damn, he got 15, I only got seven.

[994] Forget that.

[995] I'm shooting the next thing.

[996] It was just, you know, it was like an internal thing.

[997] But I always tell people, if you think we had beef, after we win the first championship and I raised my arms up, so 30 ,000 people in that arena.

[998] Who's the first got to jump in my arms?

[999] Kobe Bryant.

[1000] And I have a little brother.

[1001] I have cousins.

[1002] I have Charles Barkley.

[1003] We don't agree all the time, but we respect each other.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] People say, well, if you had it all over to do again, what would you do different?

[1006] Nothing.

[1007] We went three out of four.

[1008] I think the story would be better or more compelling if we didn't win.

[1009] It'll be like, man, they had so much talent, only if they can get along.

[1010] We won three in a row.

[1011] And we went to the final four out of five years.

[1012] I'm good with that.

[1013] And then I do regret not.

[1014] being more communicative because I've always been like that and I kind of say that the guys think the same way that I do like I wake up I only see my kids 30 minutes I got to go to work I come home I play with them for a hour I'm tired they got to do their homework then they got to go to bed so when I'm done playing I got to get home I'm a married man I got I got the husband duties I got to take care of kids I don't I've seen you guys two three hours a day I don't want to talk to you I don't want to see you guys anymore.

[1015] I don't know if that's the right mentality, but this is all I had.

[1016] So we did the special for TNT.

[1017] It was a great special.

[1018] You know, we talked about it.

[1019] It was actually great.

[1020] After that, we should have communicated more.

[1021] But again, I know he was, you know, spending time with his daughter, coaching her team, and his lovely wife and the other kids.

[1022] I don't like to bother people.

[1023] I don't.

[1024] But I thought about them all the time.

[1025] And then the day that happened, I'm downstairs working my son out, and my other son comes in.

[1026] He's crying.

[1027] I'm bawling crying.

[1028] And I'm at, I'm at a shot because I'm like, why are you crying?

[1029] Grandma, okay, my mother, okay, your mom, like, what's going on?

[1030] And I said, hey, man, what's wrong?

[1031] And then he kind of just gave me a hug and he showed me the phone, and I saw it.

[1032] So I just lose it.

[1033] And it takes a lot for me to lose it because I'm like, now I'm like, oh my God, I didn't, like, I didn't get to say nothing to him.

[1034] I didn't get to see him, when's the last time I seen him, boom, boom, boom.

[1035] So now I say, you know what, hold on, let me make sure it's credible.

[1036] So as soon as I walk up steps, ex -wife called crying, daughter called crying, mom called crying.

[1037] I called right away.

[1038] I talked to his sisters.

[1039] They were crying.

[1040] And then it just hit me then.

[1041] It was like the two days where I'm like, I should have reached out.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] I should have reached out.

[1044] So that's the only game.

[1045] But I do think, I think we all have some of that feeling in that situation.

[1046] I really do.

[1047] I think that's a very normal reaction.

[1048] because we're all so busy in life, we're all, you know, and that when something like this happens, which it's not supposed, that just wasn't supposed to happen.

[1049] It was just a terrible crazy tragedy, but I don't think you can put that on yourself.

[1050] Because it was already on me because my sister had passed away a couple months before that.

[1051] Yeah, I know.

[1052] And I only got to see her four times that year because I'm working so hard.

[1053] And then my family is the type not to tell me when stuff is gone all the way wrong.

[1054] So she had cancer twice previous and beat it.

[1055] So when she got it this time, I'm like, she'll beat it.

[1056] We got the best doctor.

[1057] She'll beat it, but nobody told me it was stage four.

[1058] Yeah.

[1059] So that really killed me, and it still kills me to this day.

[1060] I don't really get a lot of sleep.

[1061] Just thinking about that.

[1062] I have a picture collage of her.

[1063] It's like 40 different pictures.

[1064] And every day before I go to bed, I'll just look at one picture and then just go back.

[1065] So I was already having that feeling of I should, I should, I shoulda, and then it happened again.

[1066] It's like, damn.

[1067] I'm sorry.

[1068] I have to say that I live in Los Angeles, as does, you know, Matt's son -of -wee, all live in Los Angeles, and you drive around L .A. and you can't drive five feet without seeing a, you know, giant mural of Kobe or Kobe in his daughter, and, you know, he's got a halo or he's, you know, it's very like he's a saint here, but it's very different for you because you knew him as a person and someone you worked with and someone who was your friend and someone you You guys went through a lot of intense stuff together, and for everyone else, it's a different relationship.

[1069] You know, for you, it's this very personal connection.

[1070] And I think for 99 .999 % of the planet, it was someone who they just experienced through their fame.

[1071] So they have grief, but it's different than your grief, you know?

[1072] Yep.

[1073] And I try to talk to his mom, dad, and sisters at least once a month.

[1074] Yeah.

[1075] Just to say hi, just to let them know.

[1076] because I'm going through pain, their pain is a million times way more.

[1077] And Vanessa, their pain is way more than the pain I'm going through.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] Well, when I think about this last year, I think about it almost starting with hearing about Kobe's death and then almost immediately into COVID and it's been one thing after another and I've come out, now we're almost over a year later.

[1080] It just keeps reminding me that life is something we're so lucky to have that I'm trying to take that away from this last year is that it's what we started with which is we're so lucky we're just lucky people and we have to try and share that with with everyone around us and be grateful that it's a year later and we're still here are you guys in a guitar club or something you can see all right this is what i'm going to point out you know it just feels like it feels like when you're logging into something and like the security thing how many guitars do you see yeah I'm like, yeah, you know, I forgot that.

[1081] Three, four, five.

[1082] She has one.

[1083] I think it's six.

[1084] Look at this.

[1085] I got one, two.

[1086] Oh, see, seven.

[1087] Oh, geez.

[1088] Oh, my God.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] Mine's not a real guitar.

[1091] It's just a shelf.

[1092] Okay, got it.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] So I'm not as cool as these guys.

[1095] Well, actually, maybe you're cooler because it's cooler to have a guitar shelf, you know, in my opinion.

[1096] Listen, I know that you are, I don't want to keep you any longer shack, but I have to say you have been nothing but delightful and kind to me since the first time I met you, all the time you were playing basketball, and any time you've been a guest or I've shared a stage with you, you put on a show.

[1097] It's amazing.

[1098] I think almost more than anybody I know, you get the attention of everybody watching and you give them what they want to see in a way that's a real play.

[1099] Why?

[1100] Because I got to make you look good, con that.

[1101] No, seriously.

[1102] No, no. That's true.

[1103] That's true.

[1104] Like thinking about it, so let's just say you booked me and I was a terrible guest.

[1105] That's going to have, that's going to have effect on you and your ratings and not on my watch.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] The great Conan O 'Brien invites me to his show, we both got to put on the show so people can continue to say, man, Kodan's podcast, Kodan show is the top show.

[1108] It's my job and my duty to help you stay at that level.

[1109] Because guess what?

[1110] When I used to watch you, you used to make me laugh.

[1111] You helped me stay at that level.

[1112] So I always try to reciprocate to my favorite.

[1113] people what they've done for me. So you're saying I'm responsible for your four championships in some way?

[1114] Yes, every superstar in L .A. has a piece of that corporation that made Shack Dominant.

[1115] You, Jack, Adam, Denzel, his lovely wife, Diane Carroll, Penny Marshall.

[1116] Like when I sit out and I'm not thinking about basketball and I'm watching TV, you guys have done so much for me. You help keep me at a joyous place.

[1117] When I was on the court, I had to reciprocate the favor.

[1118] So how can I be on the show with the Great Conan O 'Brien and not deliver?

[1119] That's not on my watch.

[1120] Not on your watch.

[1121] Wow.

[1122] I didn't realize this coming on this podcast was such a huge responsibility and strained for you.

[1123] Of course it is.

[1124] Well, you were sweating this one today, weren't you?

[1125] I was, because if we had a bad show, you'll never know.

[1126] Okay.

[1127] Shaquille O 'Neal, seriously, I am blessed to know you.

[1128] and to experience your just delight firsthand.

[1129] So thank you so much.

[1130] You are a class act and a great guy.

[1131] Anytime.

[1132] No problem.

[1133] And I will talk to you soon.

[1134] All right.

[1135] You let me know any time.

[1136] Bye, Aaron, by Adam, by Jan, by Chuck.

[1137] Bye, by Matt Gourley.

[1138] Finally a shout out for Matt Gourley.

[1139] Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.

[1140] Every now and then, Son and I'll be talking, and there's a lot of joking around back and forth, but I sense that I really got her mad.

[1141] And I don't even mean to do it.

[1142] And last week, I was talking to Sona about my favorite pen.

[1143] Now, my favorite pen is, and this is not an ad.

[1144] I'm not getting paid.

[1145] It's the pilot, precise grip rolling ball.

[1146] Black pen.

[1147] I have them right here.

[1148] My blood is boiling.

[1149] And so just before the pandemic hit, I said to Sona, and I sent over the specs, I know I did, and I think Sona said, I think Sona said, I'm not sure.

[1150] I think she was said, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the same pen we always get.

[1151] I got it.

[1152] So I think you fobbed it off on someone.

[1153] The next thing I knew, you remembered you handed me a bag of pens.

[1154] This was just before the pandemic hit, and I put them up in my...

[1155] A year ago.

[1156] A year ago.

[1157] A year.

[1158] One year ago.

[1159] But there's a reason for this.

[1160] So then the pandemic hits.

[1161] And for a while, there's real lockdown.

[1162] And we're there, and I'm, and I run out of my trusty pens, but I go, I don't worry, Sona took good care of me. Oh, God.

[1163] She got me just what I need.

[1164] They're in that bag upstairs.

[1165] And I go upstairs and I take him out.

[1166] and I start writing on him.

[1167] And it's a pilot, precise grip, rolling ball, fine.

[1168] Oh, God.

[1169] Not bold.

[1170] Oh, my God.

[1171] Yes, and I knew that Gorley would take my sight on this because you're a persnickety, you're just a persnickety little Simon.

[1172] I know you are.

[1173] And I, about pens, I doodle, I draw, I'm constantly writing, it has to be the right pen, and I hate a fine point pen.

[1174] I hate a fine, I hate a pen that's stingy with ink.

[1175] And boy, that pilot pen was so stingy would think.

[1176] The pen was looking up at me. The pen was looking up at me every time I went to use it and was going like, I'll never run out.

[1177] I'm inadequate, but I'll last forever.

[1178] And it would scitch, scrit, scrit, scrit, scitch.

[1179] And it would scritch, scritch up the paper.

[1180] Look at this asshole.

[1181] Scratch, scritch, scritch, scritch, scritch, scritch, scritch, scritch, scratch, scritch.

[1182] And I thought, oh my God, this pencil, so I opened the next box.

[1183] Same kind, same kind, same kind.

[1184] The house was flooded.

[1185] You cornered the market on this shitty fine miserly pen, so miserly.

[1186] Can I talk now?

[1187] Can I please talk?

[1188] And I was like, what is this?

[1189] Hold on.

[1190] So then I go on the internet and I decide, I don't have to, I must take action myself.

[1191] I must leave my.

[1192] Oh, God forbid you buy your own pens.

[1193] Oh.

[1194] Do you realize how terrifying this is for a celebrity?

[1195] You have no idea, Sona.

[1196] This was a horrifying experience for me. I opened my laptop by myself, which I've never done.

[1197] and I went on this thing called Amazon and I found what I wanted and they said do you want it in fine or would you like it in bold?

[1198] And I said I'd like it in bold and they said you can have as many as you want how many do you want?

[1199] I'd like three boxes please it'll be there in five minutes bang!

[1200] So all I did was come into work and go see this pen sona and I drew with it and I went it's so much better than the pen you got me a year ago remember bold, not fine.

[1201] You blew a fuse.

[1202] Oh my God.

[1203] Okay, can I speak now?

[1204] You blew a fuse.

[1205] I'm going to speak now.

[1206] First of all, you're making it seem as though you were like, ah, and I just like, I was like, oh, I wanted a bold and you gave me fine.

[1207] You texted me on a Sunday in the middle of the week.

[1208] Yeah, and on a weekend.

[1209] And you started basically being like, uh, I don't know who got me fine tip pens, but I use bold.

[1210] And I, it was so long ago that we got you these pens and it wasn't right before the pandemic it was like i want to say at least a year and a half ago and we gave you the pens and also whose fault is it that you didn't look at them to make sure that they were the ones that you like oh no no no you can't say oh yeah yeah it's your fault sir that you were sir you tolerated the bad medical care it's your fault order order it's your fault you want it bold you should see if we got you bold bro order i won't have this in my courtroom.

[1211] Listen, go on, Sonny.

[1212] Thank you, Matt.

[1213] Matt was holding up his pens.

[1214] Because just like you, he has his own pens.

[1215] I'll use anything that writes.

[1216] But I'm not a monster.

[1217] I wouldn't expect anybody else to recognize that, like, the pen persnicketyness.

[1218] Can I read you the exchange?

[1219] Uh -oh, here we go.

[1220] This is how long this goes on.

[1221] Quick, unimportant note.

[1222] I said unimportant.

[1223] Yeah.

[1224] I just ordered more pens for myself and remembered that the last big batch that someone ordered was incorrect.

[1225] I like Pilot Precise Script Hold.

[1226] Oh, my God.

[1227] It's the fact that you said it's unimportant that makes it scarier because you're not joking around.

[1228] You're so serious.

[1229] Hold it.

[1230] And then you should see the size of this paragraph.

[1231] I say, unimportant note.

[1232] And then this paragraph looks like at least three sections of the U .S. Constitution.

[1233] I like precise script, bold.

[1234] And the last batch was fine point.

[1235] Sounds irrelevant, but it makes a big difference.

[1236] So I've been giving them away.

[1237] We won't need to get more for a long time because I just ordered a lot.

[1238] But given the pandemic and my mental state, this felt like a worthwhile use of my time.

[1239] Oh, my God.

[1240] And then, oh my God.

[1241] I got that.

[1242] Hold it, hold it.

[1243] This is good.

[1244] Listen up.

[1245] Then Sona says, okay, are you keeping the pens at home?

[1246] You're going to bring them to the theater?

[1247] And I said, I'm going to keep them at home.

[1248] And then my next text says, they're mine, all mine.

[1249] And then Sona writes back, yes, they are yours, no one else's.

[1250] Then I sent her the link.

[1251] I sent her the link to the actual correct pen on Amazon.

[1252] And I write, bold, baby.

[1253] And then in all caps, bold.

[1254] And then I say, then I blame it on some young people.

[1255] people.

[1256] No, and then there's a part where I give it to you like crushed it.

[1257] Don't forget that part because that's what, oh, that's what pissed me off.

[1258] Listen to this.

[1259] So I go bold, baby, bold.

[1260] And then I say, this is the worst thing to happen to anyone in the last year.

[1261] To Sona.

[1262] Oh, God.

[1263] I bought you pens like once a million years ago and I don't think we got more.

[1264] This sounds like a Conan mistake.

[1265] If you're going to be honest here.

[1266] It's branded.

[1267] And then she said, I know you like playing the blame game, but maybe you bought the wrong ones off Amazon.

[1268] Maybe we look inward.

[1269] That's what Sona wrote.

[1270] Oh, yes.

[1271] Maybe we look inward, says Sona.

[1272] And then I can't let it go.

[1273] And I said, yes, this is a Sunday.

[1274] And I think my kids were upstairs going, Father, can you come say good night now?

[1275] I'm not done working yet.

[1276] Then I said, I remember well, Sona.

[1277] I asked for more.

[1278] And you gave the task to someone else and they brought the wrong ones.

[1279] You gave them to me. They were in a bag.

[1280] You acted like, nailed it.

[1281] I looked in the bag and assumed they were the right ones.

[1282] Then I tried to write with one and it was like scratching with a nail.

[1283] So that's why today, for the first time I ordered them off Amazon, and then I wrote mic drop.

[1284] And then I said, and then I said, not your mic drop, my mic drop.

[1285] And then she goes, if I go into your Amazon orders history and see you ordered pens a long time ago that were fine, and will never let you forget it.

[1286] And then I can't let it go.

[1287] I go, I remember, you gave them to me in a, bag.

[1288] So what would I order them to the office?

[1289] Answer.

[1290] I wouldn't.

[1291] Check if you like, but you won't like what you find.

[1292] It goes on from there.

[1293] It gets a little dark.

[1294] It went on way too long.

[1295] Well, like all their exchanges, here's the one thing.

[1296] There's a weird madness at work here, which is yes, I do care about the tip of the pen.

[1297] But once I get started with Sona and she gets started with me, I can't stop and she can't stop.

[1298] And it's an out of control nuclear arms race where I can't be the, I can't let her be the last one to write about the pens and she can't let me be the last one to write about the pens.

[1299] And the truth is, I didn't care about the pens anymore.

[1300] You can, I think I used up four screens of texting space to make these wild, insane accusations about the pens.

[1301] Sona's telling me I need to do serious work looking inside myself.

[1302] Inward.

[1303] I think we look inward.

[1304] I was resting.

[1305] I think I was watching the Great British baking show, and I was just relaxing on the couch.

[1306] And then when you texted me, there was a level of fury that just came out of me. And I remember Tack was like, hey, what are we going to do for dinner?

[1307] I'm like, no, no, I'm busy.

[1308] And you know what's crazy?

[1309] You're carrying life.

[1310] You're carrying twins.

[1311] And I'm getting your blood pressure up about the precise grip rolling ball.

[1312] I know.

[1313] Think of Mark and Marco.

[1314] Oh, no one presses my buttons, like Conan O 'Brien.

[1315] No, and that's the thing, too, is I knew that I had gotten to you with the pens.

[1316] Once Sona turns, goes full, mad bull, I have to, I just have to go for it.

[1317] And I did look in your Amazon history.

[1318] And?

[1319] They were not there.

[1320] Meaning I didn't make the mistake.

[1321] Yes.

[1322] I probably, a lot, but it was so long ago that I forgot about it.

[1323] Yeah, if someone makes a mistake a long time ago, I guess it's not a mistake.

[1324] I think there's a statute of limitations.

[1325] I don't think you can bring up something that someone purchased like a year and a half later.

[1326] Yeah.

[1327] It's the wrong kind.

[1328] Yeah.

[1329] Yeah, like Booth shot Lincoln like 150 years ago.

[1330] Okay.

[1331] Did he really do anything wrong?

[1332] It was a long time ago.

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] A president getting assassinated is the same as you getting fine pens instead of bold pens.

[1335] Matt, I know you're a persnickety.

[1336] Do you like a fine -tipped pen?

[1337] I'm a medium guy.

[1338] I'm a Unibal vision.

[1339] but I have to say, I didn't even know the name of these.

[1340] I just know I like them.

[1341] I don't think I'm quite at your level.

[1342] See, I'm constantly drawing these little people, you know?

[1343] Yeah, I'm drawing, too.

[1344] Look what I drew during the office ladies.

[1345] Oh, wow, look at that.

[1346] Why am I here?

[1347] Why am I here?

[1348] All right.

[1349] Well, I think we should move on.

[1350] Let's drop this.

[1351] And let's move boldly into the future.

[1352] All right, fine.

[1353] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend, with Sonam Obsessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself.

[1354] Produced by me, Matt Goreley.

[1355] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solitaroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

[1356] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[1357] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[1358] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[1359] The show is engineered by Will Beckton.

[1360] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

[1361] Got a question for Conan?

[1362] Call the Team Coco hotline at 3234.

[1363] 451, 2821, and leave a message.

[1364] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[1365] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[1366] This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.