242 - Spoilerama

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hardstark.

[3] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[4] And this is a true crime podcast with some other talking in it.

[5] Lots of other talking.

[6] Mostly other talking.

[7] I mean, I don't know.

[8] I think we're about half and half depending on the week, depending on globally what's happening nationally and then, of course, locally.

[9] Mm -hmm.

[10] Right?

[11] Internally.

[12] Internally.

[13] you know, spiritually, how is your hair?

[14] Kippur.

[15] Oh, thank you for asking.

[16] It was lovely.

[17] We, we lightly celebrated, you know.

[18] May I ask and I do apologize?

[19] Oh, you know I'm not going to be able to answer whatever it is.

[20] Well, no, no, it's a light one.

[21] But is this the atonement week?

[22] Is this the atonement a holiday?

[23] Or is that?

[24] So we just had Rosh Hashanah, which is the new year.

[25] That's the new year.

[26] Yeah.

[27] And then I'm going to tell you all about what Yom Kippur.

[28] is off the top of my head.

[29] Okay, it's weird because you're speaking kind of in a stilted way, but...

[30] Because it means a lot to me, spiritually.

[31] Oh, I see.

[32] And so you're getting emotional?

[33] You are correct, Karen.

[34] It is known as the Day of Atonement, and it's actually caring.

[35] You might not know this, but it's the holiest of the day of the year in Judaism.

[36] That's why I'm trying to keep my voice down.

[37] Right.

[38] But I thank you for, I appreciate you, you know, respecting my hardcore religion.

[39] Right.

[40] And I have nothing to atone for, so I'm not.

[41] not as familiar with it.

[42] Oh, that must feel good.

[43] Did you know that?

[44] I'm the only one.

[45] You're just that one person that's kind of sin -free.

[46] Not unlike my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[47] You don't know anything about him.

[48] That's a different.

[49] We'll talk about him on a different holiday weekend.

[50] Okay.

[51] Is it rude to call it a holiday weekend instead of a religious holiday?

[52] Not in America.

[53] It's not.

[54] I'm so, I'm so not Jewish that I never even took the days off of when I had a like desktop.

[55] I wouldn't even take them off.

[56] because I'd be like, they know I'm faking it.

[57] It's like faking being sick.

[58] You're faking being a Jew.

[59] You're not going to be able to accuse me of faking being a Jew when I'm doing that privately.

[60] Right.

[61] Exactly.

[62] That's my personal life to fake.

[63] Looking back, I wish I had because, you know, I then later learned that like even reform Jews, it's like you take the day off work to, um, to honor that holiday as you see fit.

[64] It doesn't have to be you in temple praying and shit.

[65] Hell yes.

[66] It can be like, I fucking take national popcorn.

[67] day off if they let me whatever it takes to get out of that building you do it cash it in it doesn't matter amen your lord and savior overrun boxing day i like maple syrup i'll see you on tuesday canadians love us so we're basically canadian we're very similar get that holiday girl well thanks for asking absolutely hi did you find your skeleton what hut did you find your skeleton what you find your giant skeleton conversation hike uh no i first of all if we i were to get that skeleton i would absolutely give it to katrina first because she wanted it first okay our lawyer is fucking like a wicken badass witch or she or she just has great taste in decor home decor and loves Halloween yes but i sent most people saw this happen and we've already talked about it on at least one of our podcasts but they sell not anymore on at home because they sold out but for $300 they had a 20 foot skeleton you could put in your front yard and somebody retweeted it on Twitter the second I put my eyes on it something changed inside me you could liken it to a religious experience you could liken it to love at first sight yeah but I was overcome with a sense of security and a sense of that someone was going to defend me from all the terrible things in this world.

[68] And that was that 20 foot skeleton with light up blue eyes.

[69] I would like to talk to and congratulate Sue in the buying department who was like, hey, guys, I have this great idea.

[70] I found these like 10 foot fucking glow in the dark eyeball skeletons.

[71] And I thought it would be great for Halloween.

[72] And everyone was like, that's stupid.

[73] So they sold out immediately.

[74] And she was like, what the fuck did I tell you guys?

[75] In August, I was like, buy more.

[76] Yes.

[77] Sue has been pitching this at like the Home Depot staff.

[78] meetings and everyone's like oh my gosh she's going to talk about the skeleton again she's like we I think we need to get ready and this year's Halloween because it's from the scariest year we've ever had it needs to be the scariest Halloween over the top we need to go we go big over the roof line we have to go we need skeleton everyone drives a mini Cooper how are they even going to get at home well they are smart people they will figure it out they have the passion if you're driving a mini Cooper you have the passion of Jason Bourne you're going to figure out a way to get that motherfucking skeleton back to your house.

[79] And they did.

[80] And they did.

[81] And now people are taking pictures of people who did and sending them to me on social media.

[82] Sue is getting a raise and we're really happy for her.

[83] Or she quit.

[84] She was like, oh, guess what weekend it is, everybody?

[85] Yom Kippur, where you guys have to fucking atone from not believing in my skeleton idea.

[86] I got a call from Amazon and like, how about you come work here where you get fucking respected?

[87] I don't know.

[88] And I said, no thank you because there's no workers' rights or any kind of insurance.

[89] And they're evil and they actually would never treat me well.

[90] You know, I'm going to Lowe's.

[91] It's black owned.

[92] It is they paid generously.

[93] We always have to put politics into it.

[94] Always.

[95] We are just a broken.

[96] No, we're not.

[97] We're the only.

[98] There are the only record that's playing.

[99] That's right.

[100] What's important is, what have you been watching on TV lately?

[101] Okay, here we go.

[102] Well, do we first talk about the new season of Fargo?

[103] Yes.

[104] Let's do it.

[105] Season 4 of Fargo, we watched, there's like two eight -hour episodes just to like kick off with.

[106] And the whole time I was like, wow, holy shit, holy shit.

[107] I love it.

[108] Do you love it?

[109] Or you?

[110] Love it so much.

[111] It's beautifully constructed.

[112] The directing gets better every year.

[113] There was a couple moves they did at the beginning not to be this much of a nerd, but I was just, I turned to my friend Charlie who was staying with me who also works in, he actually works in movies.

[114] And I I was like, is it here this is the director like, that's good.

[115] And he's like, oh, yeah.

[116] It's so good.

[117] And everyone was worried about, I think from what I heard, Chris Rock was worrisome because he's not an actor.

[118] But I was like, they don't put people in this.

[119] Every time they put someone in it, you go, wow, I didn't know that they could act like that, you know, or they were that good of an actor.

[120] Or Ian McGregor could play that character.

[121] So I kind of was hoping that Chris Rock would be good.

[122] Well, yeah.

[123] And obviously, he knows he has the will to succeed.

[124] but but he's also been in a lot of like what he's not good in grownups three like that's okay totally so I think something like this where he goes I had the nervousness too because he overplays things like every stand -up comic that ever does anything it's like watch me he got all lies on me to me it really felt like he was in it to win an Emmy or two because this the seriousness and the like he's doing something and it's cool do you know who I am I'm going to say that I have not seen a movie that I have not liked this person in.

[125] And I'm going to fucking say that he's like, maybe one of the greats is Jason Schwartzman.

[126] I swear to God, name a movie that wasn't entertaining that he's been in.

[127] As much as I can't.

[128] I think people get annoyed by him because he plays kind of an annoying character sometimes.

[129] But he's always in really good movies.

[130] And it can't just be a coincidence, you know.

[131] No, no, no. He has good taste.

[132] And he's, well, because he's been like an it boy type.

[133] Right.

[134] Since, because he's been in, since he's a teen.

[135] And he's a Coppola.

[136] Yeah, yeah.

[137] He's Hollywood stock.

[138] He's like low key Hollywood royalty.

[139] He's always been a little bit of a comedy guy, but also a hipster guy.

[140] No, he has, he makes good decisions.

[141] And also I have to say, when I first saw him kind of acting, he had his hair forward, but a hat on.

[142] And I was like, what's happening with this hair?

[143] Because I didn't get what his part was.

[144] And then when his hair, when that hat was off and he has like the 50.

[145] gangster hair.

[146] It worked for me. The whole situation was working.

[147] Like a goofball.

[148] You can't.

[149] I like, I like it.

[150] And then Jesse Buckley, she, I'm suddenly intrigued with her ever since I saw her like a month ago in, um, I'm thinking of ending things, which she basically plays a similar, unlikable character and she, you have to see her in the, and I recommend this to everybody all the time, but very few people listen to me on this one.

[151] But the Tom Hardy FX series taboo.

[152] or tattoo?

[153] Taboo.

[154] Taboo.

[155] Taboo.

[156] Taboo.

[157] She plays a woman in it.

[158] And so it's the 1700s England or early 1800s England.

[159] I can't remember.

[160] But it's so good.

[161] And she is great.

[162] It's very serious.

[163] Is she?

[164] No. I'm thinking of a different show.

[165] I don't think there's a bar.

[166] You're thinking of Cheers.

[167] That's Diane from Cheers.

[168] That's Shelley Long.

[169] Very different actress.

[170] Very different era.

[171] But anyway, it's just a good thing if you're looking for something to watch and you like if you like period pieces if you like that good old snack tom hardy it has everything really love it love her names mary crutchfield who is like the narrator and main characters just i just want all her clothes and i just want to watch her and i'm yes she's it's so it's what a great entertaining role she's got that's like i can't it's so badass it's so good also that ending oh my now i can't remember it's if it was the ending of the first episode or the second.

[172] When the door gets kicked in with the pie?

[173] Wait a second.

[174] When the girl, the actress who are just talking about the nurse is just standing in the window going, there's another episode on that's up.

[175] They put two episodes up.

[176] Shit.

[177] So I'm excited for you.

[178] Yay, that's great.

[179] That's what I'm doing after this.

[180] You have a two hours after this.

[181] The ending of episode one has such a scary, weird detail thing that's one of my.

[182] my specific fears that's very very random.

[183] Fast talking.

[184] That thing of like when the villain or the bad guy is like demonic fast talks.

[185] Almost like speaking in tongues, but she's clearly talking to the house or.

[186] And did you catch that there was a guy standing in the street as the camera pan?

[187] I did.

[188] But okay, I'm going to just, this is a little bit of a spoiler, but we know he's in it.

[189] At the end of the next episode, surprise Timothy Oliphant.

[190] Fucking fade to.

[191] black.

[192] That's it.

[193] Okay.

[194] Can I tell my Timothy Olfant story?

[195] Yeah.

[196] Do I know it?

[197] Wait.

[198] Yes.

[199] It was at a party, a fancy party everybody goes to every year that I'm friends with.

[200] And my friend, Tracy Gatsky, was there with him because they worked on the Santa Clarita diet together.

[201] Okay.

[202] So he showed up and was with my friend and me and a casual Timothy Olifant plus one.

[203] No big fucking deal.

[204] They just walked up into our circle of talking.

[205] And And me and my friend Kevin, who used to watch Deadwood and like drink whiskey together and we have a whole history just turned to each other and he's like, oh my God, he's coming over here right now.

[206] We like we were freaking out.

[207] And then we basically were pretending to talk to each other while we eavesdropped on what he was saying to everybody else.

[208] And eventually, you know, five minutes passed.

[209] And that conversation wound down.

[210] And then we kind of very casually turned to the group like we were going to join it again.

[211] And then he looked, Timothy Olfant looked at.

[212] Kevin and I went, what are the, what are you two doing over there?

[213] And it was, because you were not being casual, probably.

[214] No, no, not at all.

[215] But also so exciting to have direct focused attention from that man who has played some of the sexiest, yet scariest, yet scariest most sociopathic characters in movies and then some of the greatest heroes.

[216] That's cool that he like, didn't have to pretend to ignore him in the conversation.

[217] He just immediately was like, let's, I'm talking at you.

[218] Let's do this.

[219] What are you guys doing?

[220] Yeah, exactly.

[221] It was just like, yes, thank you, sir.

[222] And then conceptually, I can remember the names of actors or like in this, in private conversation, which is public, which is our job.

[223] This is private?

[224] This is private?

[225] Is this the one that goes out or the other one?

[226] But in reality, in that situation where it's someone of his level, because I think he is a brilliant actor, I think he has nuts range.

[227] And then all the time sexy.

[228] like no matter what he's doing.

[229] And to have, I just immediately go kind of 2D flat and just have nothing to say and can't think of anything.

[230] Oh, I love it.

[231] I love it.

[232] I love when friends change.

[233] I love when friends change and I'm with them around dudes and I just want to fuck with them so hard.

[234] Like, Karen, tell him about that time you.

[235] No, that's all it.

[236] Then it's just that.

[237] Because what, then what are you going to do?

[238] All my brain will let me do in that situation and say, what the fuck are you going to say in this moment that's going to make you seem anything more interesting than the average person at fucking the container store.

[239] But we want to know.

[240] Was he to all?

[241] How tall?

[242] Was he tall?

[243] He was same height as everyone else in the circle.

[244] Okay.

[245] Okay.

[246] Yeah, he was regular like all actors are, it's like you turn the size down three.

[247] So they're not six, two.

[248] They're actually five, nine or ten, which is five, nine, or ten.

[249] And that's what this guy was.

[250] It was just like regular.

[251] Whatever.

[252] Manly height.

[253] An age range.

[254] Kind of reedy.

[255] He was definitely wearing like a henley from what I remember, but that could also be what his costume was on Deadwood.

[256] Just borrow something from the trailer.

[257] A wardrobe table.

[258] Everyone was attracted to this man in our talking circle.

[259] That's all I have to say.

[260] I wasn't alone.

[261] Well, Fargo reminds me of Boardwalk Empire a lot, and I'm really excited about it.

[262] Hated to see all those Jews.

[263] people get fucking mowed down as a Jewish person.

[264] That was not my favorite thing to see.

[265] How about a wilderness of error on FX?

[266] Did you watch that?

[267] I haven't watched it yet.

[268] Did you watch it?

[269] Yes.

[270] And I was really nervous.

[271] So it's about, it's like a documentary.

[272] I don't know if Arrow Morris made it, but he's definitely interviewed in it.

[273] Who is like, he wrote the book.

[274] Yes.

[275] And he's like obsessed with this case.

[276] I am so obsessed with him.

[277] He is a fucking treasure.

[278] Yeah.

[279] I adore him.

[280] And the Jeffrey McDonald case I've, I covered for the show one.

[281] in some episode.

[282] For the show, my favorite murder.

[283] For the show, I might have heard of it.

[284] And so I felt like I know everything about it already.

[285] There's nothing you can tell me. There's no new details that they've uncovered maybe.

[286] And so I was a little worried, but it's fucking good.

[287] It is fucking good.

[288] And it is like, I just forgot how crazy it is.

[289] The father -in -law, so the Colette, the wife, who was murdered, the father -in -law is the one who goes fucking nuts.

[290] And originally was supporting Jeffrey McDonald saying, my son -in -law would never do this.

[291] And then, And he fucking, and it's her stepdad.

[292] It's not even like, so you're like, what's happening?

[293] But he's so passionate.

[294] He's like, I'm going to, he devotes his life to getting this fucking guy who killed his daughter and grandchildren.

[295] And it's like, hardcore, man. It's good.

[296] I can't wait to watch it.

[297] I just, it's the kind of thing.

[298] It almost feels like end of a semester final kind of thing where it's like, here's the true crime case.

[299] What do you know about it?

[300] Well, what you know is wrong.

[301] And then you, that's wrong.

[302] too.

[303] It's like one of those things where yeah, it's just kind of the deepest of dives into how these cases get fucked up, how the system doesn't work.

[304] To me, it's not about as he innocent or guilty because the physical evidence, he's guilty as fuck.

[305] What it is is the trials and them trying to get justice afterwards.

[306] That is does Aaron Morris think he's guilty or innocent?

[307] I don't know.

[308] He hasn't said if he doesn't, there's no way Aaron Morris thinks he's fucking innocent.

[309] I have no, I'm just guessing that.

[310] But like, you know, there's fibers underneath the wife's body that are clothing that the pajamas that Jeffrey McDonnell was wear like there's those things and there's that you know everyone had a different blood type so they know that the blood type B was in this room and it shouldn't fucking be there because he and the children are laying on their sides and he said he gave them fucking mouth to mouth and why are they on their sides if that's the case you know it's like shit like that's just like I fucking think he did it but who knows yeah I'm I want to see it and also just because I everything else Errol Morris makes is innovative it's fascinating it's all about the study of human personality the stuff that makes us feel like weirdos he's just like but let's get into it yes no he's he's very good at what he does I can't wait to watch okay that goes on my list you definitely you guys love it and then Fargo episode two God what else really missed that one so wait a second they released two at the beginning to get you kind of going on your binge I think so.

[311] You know how they do that where they're like, the first two episodes on cut or or on whatever the fuck.

[312] I don't know.

[313] Unsensored.

[314] It's triple X Fargo.

[315] I finally watched the final episode of love fraud.

[316] Oh, yeah.

[317] Dude.

[318] The last half hour.

[319] Spoiler.

[320] Oh, Rama, obviously, this entire section.

[321] But fucking Twitchy McGee over here.

[322] What the shit?

[323] He only, he, now look, this is the thing that we do.

[324] I'm going to say this.

[325] the beginning of this.

[326] This is the thing that we do where we are we are armchair quarterbacks about true crime things we watch.

[327] Our opinion is not based in science.

[328] It's not based in it's based in things I overheard my mom say around the kitchen table.

[329] Pure passionate fucking spewing out of our faces.

[330] That's all it is.

[331] And pure opinion.

[332] Yeah.

[333] And I will say this.

[334] Okay.

[335] That man talking to camera and only blinking with a one eye like a Gila monster.

[336] And calling her the wrong name multiple fucking times.

[337] Did you notice that?

[338] I thought he was calling her Rachel.

[339] He calls her Heidi a couple times.

[340] He calls her the wrong name a couple fucking times.

[341] And that like weird.

[342] Could there have been two there, two documentary filmmakers present?

[343] Okay, but why would they?

[344] Maybe.

[345] Okay.

[346] Go on.

[347] Just saying.

[348] Just saying.

[349] Maybe, maybe.

[350] But the amount, but you're right in what I did notice, the amount of times he used the name.

[351] Talk about a red flag.

[352] Do we ever talk about that as a red flag?

[353] If someone uses your name.

[354] to convince you of something and they repeat your name over they start in an unnecessary way yeah i never say okay karen let me tell you about this thing i saw like i don't need to i'm fucking addressing you you know i'm talking to you can feel the connection we have while we're speaking to each other to each other and you know when we are disengaged right i think people like that don't and also they're trying they're looping you back in to georgia the thing I'm convincing you of Georgia, like pinning you down like an insect on a piece of paper is what he's picturing it as.

[355] Meanwhile, he's got this.

[356] He basically looked like a ghoul.

[357] He looked like he was doing an impression of a cartoon of Dracula with his hands kind of wrapped around and under his chin.

[358] Remember when he did this with his like his fingers under his chin like weave together?

[359] Like he's a fucking baby doll taken.

[360] Like a baby getting his baby picture taken as a 60 year old man. It was just one of the weirdest.

[361] And then at the very end, how do you see this ending?

[362] He said to the interviewers.

[363] Oh, God.

[364] How did you guys see this ending?

[365] Oh, he says that?

[366] Yes, that's.

[367] And then when he gets out of jail.

[368] And they have footage of him with a new lady.

[369] Oh, it's so hard to watch that because you're like, how does anyone believe in love?

[370] Believe in love ever again and trust anyone ever.

[371] How do you ever have an experience?

[372] I'll say this if you're having an experience like that where someone wants to get married and start a crab restaurant with you within three weeks run for the fucking hills because what's about to hit you you've never seen the likes of the problem is that you see shows like that and then you're in something with a person three months in really having a good time and going when is the other shoe going to drop Vince moved in with me three months into our relationship so like is that true?

[373] Yeah and I got engaged once three months into the relationship.

[374] I shouldn't, looking back, I should have questioned that one.

[375] Luckily, you ended up doing it because you didn't marry that guy.

[376] Right.

[377] And that was a bad thing to do.

[378] And he ended up being someone I wouldn't have married once I knew him for a couple years.

[379] You know what I mean?

[380] But Vince not.

[381] So, and Vince didn't have a, it wasn't like Vince moved out of his.

[382] Okay.

[383] So it's just hard to tell when you're younger and you fall in love immediately and it's passion, exciting.

[384] Just, you know, just don't let that cloud your future judgment so like just don't let your checking account get involved that's all and if they suggest it say no and if and then you can see what that reaction even after vinson i got married our fucking checking accounts weren't i just don't need to do that you know it's not crucial and also it's nice that someone believes in your dreams and wants your dreams to come true your crab shack but but a crab restaurant 3 ,000 miles inland yeah if they really loved you they would have said we're not going to open that crap shack.

[385] Shows what you know, because it's fucking doing well.

[386] It's doing well.

[387] Or is it?

[388] If we looked it up, it could be COVID could have really.

[389] In the body of the documentary, it did great.

[390] So the whole thing could have been fake.

[391] I will say to that Vince and I we moved it.

[392] We moved quickly.

[393] We moved in three months into it.

[394] And then we didn't get married.

[395] We got married like three years in.

[396] So it wasn't like look.

[397] Look, none of us think it's going to work.

[398] Yeah.

[399] And it's really expensive to live in a wait.

[400] What?

[401] I did not catch I love that you're just, you had to come back around and make your excuse of why it was an okay idea for you guys to get I think whatever you did work I think you're okay you're in the clear yes thank you finally six years in I can take a deep breath you're waiting for me what if we're after this podcast is episodes up right go upstairs in the whole fucking living rooms and cleared out and Vince is gone and it was like oh my god he was ready this whole time there's just one light bulb just like in the in the fucking bridge and Elvis is like I tried to stop him dude I tried to getting to take me with him he even took the what's the Mimi he took me me the roast beast he took the roast beast The what he took Mimi I'm just equating it to the Grinch Yeah I get it I got it Happy Yom Kippur to me Am I right?

[402] This is the worst Yom Kippur This Yom Kippur vacation weekend It's Tuesday guys What did I want to Our good friend Skip Hollingsworth Who is a true crime writer whose stories we have used and featured and who has been on live shows with us, a live show.

[403] Well, your girls are just the greatest.

[404] Okay, so he started a new podcast called Tom Brown's Body.

[405] The people from Texas Monthly are putting out this podcast, which is so smart of them.

[406] They have so much amazing true crime content.

[407] They have had such, they've been paying great true crime writers for years and years and years, and they're having them tell their own stories.

[408] It's so cool.

[409] listen to Tom Brown's body, which is, I guess, the Texas Monthly Network.

[410] If it's his story, you know it's going to be worth your time.

[411] And we've met him.

[412] He's a gem.

[413] His daughter's a gem.

[414] We met them backstage in Texas, right?

[415] Yeah, that's right.

[416] Outside Dallas, maybe?

[417] I can't remember which one either.

[418] I miss traveling.

[419] Okay.

[420] I had some news, which was pretty exciting to be informed by a listener named Zara Sheldrake, who let us know.

[421] she sent us a picture that our book is number one on Amazon in the pornography biography section What?

[422] How?

[423] What are you?

[424] Where?

[425] What?

[426] I don't know.

[427] Zara just tweeted a picture and said, I was thinking about buying this book, but now I'm not so sure.

[428] Oh my God.

[429] Pornography biography?

[430] Pornography biography section.

[431] So clearly we're either getting trolled.

[432] People are being funny.

[433] Who knows.

[434] I did talk about my nipples getting pierced in it.

[435] There's definitely a lot of smut in that book for sure.

[436] But I feel like, I'm sure Stormy Daniels has a book out that should be number one.

[437] Absolutely.

[438] I don't want to be going up against any of our sisters out there who are just trying to write their story and get the good word out.

[439] So put us back in, wasn't it like anxiety?

[440] We were in the like self -help and anxiety section.

[441] Self -help anxiety and complaining.

[442] I think we'll eat.

[443] And celery juicing originally.

[444] Oh, that's right.

[445] So our paperback is Paperback as Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered, is coming out in May and I think you can pre -order it now, which I guess, that's so far away.

[446] I don't understand books.

[447] Do you know when it's coming out in May?

[448] 20, I think your birthday.

[449] It's on my birthday.

[450] May 11th, 2021.

[451] Happy bucket birthday.

[452] And it's going to have bonus content in it.

[453] And you're like, what is that?

[454] You're like, well, when you find out, you're going to be stoked.

[455] You're going to...

[456] We can't see.

[457] I can't tell you.

[458] We're putting out a mini CD of songs like this.

[459] Timothy Olivan is going to come hang with us.

[460] What are you two talking about?

[461] And we're like, what are you two talking about?

[462] I don't even know.

[463] Timothy Oliven.

[464] Looking at me eye to eye because you're not particularly tall or short.

[465] But you sure are fast.

[466] But we don't even.

[467] I think Georgia I don't mean to I see that character as your backup singer character Because the way you're kind of like doing some shoulder shimmies But then you're also It's a lead part Because what you're singing is really telling a story I don't know who that was just now That was Georgia two small white wine Italian white wine sparkling cans in And I like her Hey!

[468] Hey, Italian wife, I'm Jason Trozman's wife in a movie.

[469] Can I please be?

[470] Do you know that the reason, one of the reasons I was late to our recording this evening is because I had to update my phone because there's a new set of emojis that are available now and one of them is the Italian, oh my God, fingers, the Italian.

[471] You're doing it right now.

[472] It's like you make your hand into a little tight little.

[473] The Italian, I think they call them the kiss fingers when you're like, oh, oh, hey.

[474] You can have those now.

[475] Thank God.

[476] Just an FYI.

[477] Wait.

[478] The fact that I didn't lead with this is hilarious, but it's because it's a corrections corner.

[479] Oh, my God.

[480] I have never seen more corrections on anything than this one.

[481] On this one.

[482] And I'm so mad.

[483] I heard it wrong.

[484] I heard what you meant to say.

[485] Thank you.

[486] Which is why we're the same frame.

[487] Zoom works if you work it.

[488] I was and I and I'll tell you this that I absolutely accept people tweeting at me letting me know when I make mistakes but I want you to know it's a funny mistake it's a really this one's a funny mistake but I just want you to know that if you're the first person who lets me know if I find out from you personally that that I made this mistake any mistake I hate you just so you know so you can absolutely tell me and you can be you can try to hedge it and whatever but I will absolutely look at your name I will look at the the avatar or whatever they call it the icon that you use.

[489] Block.

[490] And I will emotionally block you forever.

[491] So you know who you were the first person.

[492] It was a guy who did it first.

[493] So Kathy with the guy.

[494] That's Robbie.

[495] Kathy and Robbie.

[496] The guy who let me know this first, I was positive.

[497] He was wrong.

[498] Because I was yes, of course.

[499] Because I was so, I remember doing that little speech and being so proud about running that string of words together.

[500] Tell everyone what it is because I think I was trying to when I was explaining the terrible Ilan school story last week to Georgia you were just like so the kids are in charge and I was like yes it was like a private for -profit Lord of the Rings situation.

[501] But I knew you met Lord of the Flies and that's what I heard that's not for you.

[502] Apparently that's not we use it that's it's not what i said and it's not what a bunch of people who love to look for mistakes heard because they were just like i thought i'd simply die when i heard you say lord of the ring which is so stupid but the visuals everyone was explaining was so fucking hilarious though like it got very funny when it was all kids for profit lord of the rings you don't want to see that shit that's magical over there that's not fucking gruesome and smelly well it's a little smelly That's pretty smelly.

[503] I will say this.

[504] Anytime when we haven't pre -agreed that we're only going to do one story and my story is nine pages long, I try to go as fast as I humanly can.

[505] I should have stopped you and been like, we're only doing this one.

[506] So it was just like, I was just like, no time.

[507] I'm sure you have something to say.

[508] No time.

[509] I have to keep going.

[510] And yeah.

[511] Anyway, thanks everybody for reminding me that two different things.

[512] My brain is slowly turning into Swiss cheese For comedy Okay, wait, there's a new show Okay That I have to tell you about Okay It's called pottery throwdown Oh And it's only on HBO Max Which is really hard to access And infuriating that they don't Just make it a regular streaming channel There's a pottery throwing competition show Yeah, and it's British Oh So it's just like the great British Bakeoff Breaking Contest But in a good way in such a good way.

[513] But also, have you ever considered making pottery?

[514] Yes, I've never thought.

[515] Did you really?

[516] Yeah, in high school, I had fucking obviously lived in an affluent town.

[517] In Irvine, shockingly, there was a pottery class with this hippie fucking clearly stoner teacher.

[518] Did you get to work the wheel?

[519] Yeah, once you were like a junior, they let you use the wheel.

[520] And it is exactly what you think it's going to be like on ghost.

[521] it's fucking awesome and there's places now around town that before COVID that you can go and learn how to throw pottery it's really funny pretty easy it looks amazing it doesn't seem easy at all with the stuff they were doing it's not easy to make basic shit to make complicated beautiful stuff it's hard but like just to make I have my mom cleaned out her storage recently and was like here's all your pottery from high school and I was like I don't want it I know I threw a lot of it away, which I felt sad about, but I kept one thing.

[522] It's really ugly, but...

[523] Is it an ashtray made of coiled up snakes?

[524] That's my favorite pottery.

[525] That's what I can do.

[526] You can do that.

[527] I can roll out some clay into like eight snakes and then you coil them all up and you smoke right into them.

[528] I think we need to get you a pottery wheel for your garage just so like Karen can like go live her best life, put on a moo -moo, go out there.

[529] Hey, fuck you.

[530] You know what?

[531] Fuck you for the last three words that you just said.

[532] You said you wanted one, not a moo -moo.

[533] A caftan.

[534] I meant a caftan.

[535] And then a caftan.

[536] Too late.

[537] You fucked that up really badly.

[538] But you, so me living my best life is me going alone into my garage in a moo -mo.

[539] Absolutely not.

[540] I'm picturing you living in Eugene, Oregon.

[541] And like.

[542] A tone.

[543] A tone for what you've done.

[544] I will atone by telling you, again, that Kevin Bacon follows us on Instagram.

[545] I just want to bring some light and love, some light and love into your life.

[546] And you can get mad when Kevin Bacon.

[547] Left turn.

[548] Thank you.

[549] You know what?

[550] There's nothing more satisfying to a person like myself who's lived in Hollywood for so long, who's dreamed of Hollywood for so long, who's been, who was a child of the 80s, then to have a podcast that someone the likes of the great Kevin Bacon listens to.

[551] Or at least follows us on social media.

[552] Maybe he doesn't listen to the podcast.

[553] You don't know.

[554] He follows my favorite murder, which is like, I don't think you follow, podcast unless you listen to them.

[555] Maybe you follow whatever.

[556] What if he is weird?

[557] But he's married to, he probably is, but he's married to Kira Sedgwick.

[558] That's right.

[559] Who seems like a sweet baby angel.

[560] Like, how could you be weird?

[561] I mean, look, it wasn't a sincere question.

[562] Well, listen, I'm glad we moved past that.

[563] When you said I was we're going to wear a moo -moo?

[564] Yeah.

[565] I am too.

[566] I see that there's a dog grooming contest show now too.

[567] Is it top dog?

[568] And friend of the podcast, Jess Rona from Jess Rona grooming is one of the hosts, judges.

[569] Oh, cool.

[570] And she's awesome and she's really, really good at her job.

[571] She's a judge probably because the host is Matt Rogers, who's a comic.

[572] And then there's two judges and she's one of them.

[573] And she's definitely a friend of the family.

[574] Nice.

[575] What a family we're starting to build here.

[576] Are you supposed to like your family?

[577] Because what a magical assortment of family members that I'm not used to.

[578] This is a new sensation completely for me. It's like I like my family.

[579] No, I love my family.

[580] Really quickly, have you watched, or did we already talk about, stop me if we talked about this.

[581] Have you watched P Valley?

[582] P Valley.

[583] Down in the valley where the girls are naked.

[584] Have you, it's a show on stars, I believe.

[585] It stands for Pussy Valley.

[586] And it's about strippers in a fictional town in Mississippi.

[587] That sounds fun.

[588] It's so good.

[589] It's so good.

[590] You have to see it.

[591] And because you're such a fan, no, but because you're such a fan of, is it called pole dancing or is it, like, is there's some unbelievable pole dancing in it?

[592] I love that shit.

[593] The shit where one climbs up and they stand on the girl in the middle and then the girl underneath is pretending like she's standing on upside down.

[594] Have you ever seen that shit?

[595] That is acrobatics.

[596] That's not, it's amazing.

[597] Circtosolation.

[598] It's so crazy.

[599] Time and effort it takes and fucking, what's it called when you have muscles on your stomach?

[600] CORE.

[601] The core it takes to be able to do that is incredible.

[602] It's nuts.

[603] Yeah.

[604] I love that.

[605] And the show itself is fascinating and it's like, it's really good.

[606] Hardcore respect.

[607] Pea Valley if you're looking for.

[608] Pea Valley.

[609] I'm so hardcore respect to this.

[610] Like that's just, it's unbelievable.

[611] Yeah.

[612] Oh, can we do a merch corner real quick?

[613] Please.

[614] Jeez.

[615] We now have it for like a Halloween or if you're just year -round goth or metal.

[616] Spooky Halloween.

[617] We have spooky Elvis March.

[618] It's this glow -in -the -dark design of Elvis as like a zombie cat, right?

[619] Would you say?

[620] Yeah.

[621] Or he, it is a little bit like black metal.

[622] Yeah.

[623] I make up.

[624] Oh, we talked about that last.

[625] Either black, death, death, dark, black.

[626] Gauthie, hot topic.

[627] Metal.

[628] Hot topic.

[629] The t -shirt, there's a three -quarter -length sleeve fucking a zip -up hoodie that Karen was like, I don't want, I want a hoodie with nothing on the back.

[630] Can I have a fucking for once in my life?

[631] Ladies, okay, here's the logic that I use because everyone's like, no, we like a hoodie with a design on the back.

[632] And I was like, great.

[633] And we do those.

[634] But every once in a while, a gal like me wants to wear a black sweatshirt that doesn't have a big sign that says stare at my big wide back.

[635] on it.

[636] And instead, what I would like is plain black on the back, which they let me have on this sweatshirt.

[637] And then on the front, there is a glow in the dark Elvis with death metal eye makeup on.

[638] And then it is, it says my favorite murder.

[639] The best.

[640] It's a subtle goth death metal hoodie.

[641] You know.

[642] It's a hoodie for when you, you're just running to the store, but you also have a lot of heavy feelings.

[643] Right.

[644] And you don't have to compromise on that just because you're going to the store.

[645] Get this sweatshirt.

[646] Express yourself.

[647] And also back me up that we don't always want some big old like Shenzano ad on the back of a sweatshirt.

[648] Like, look at this thing instead of my butt or whatever.

[649] Enough.

[650] Look at this thing instead of my butt.

[651] Also, while you're there, we have the My Favorite Murder Black and White logo pin and the My Favorite Murder Stay Sexy face mask and both of the proceeds for both of those.

[652] go to really good places.

[653] So check those out as well.

[654] But, you can, you can spend money on yourself and have it be going to great charities.

[655] Remember when your big sister said you were a selfish bitch that one time in eighth grade?

[656] Prove her wrong.

[657] Honey.

[658] And hold on to it even tighter afterwards.

[659] Shove it in her face.

[660] Buy her a fucking pin and a mask, that bitch.

[661] Yeah.

[662] Look who's selfish now.

[663] Bitch, you just got a pin and a mask.

[664] Proceeds of which.

[665] Hate you.

[666] All right.

[667] So it's my turn this week.

[668] It's your turn this week.

[669] I'm excited about this one thing.

[670] Okay.

[671] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[672] Absolutely.

[673] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[674] Exactly.

[675] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[676] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[677] That's right.

[678] Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere.

[679] Online in store on social media and beyond.

[680] Give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[681] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in person.

[682] So give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[683] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[684] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can too.

[685] Connect with customers in -line and online.

[686] Do retail right with Shopify.

[687] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[688] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[689] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[690] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[691] Goodbye.

[692] Georgia, do you feel ready to deliver the solo story of this week?

[693] I'm ready.

[694] It's a heavy hitter.

[695] I think for me and it'll be for you too.

[696] and a lot of people our age who I want to be like, I can't believe we haven't done this, but we haven't because it's hard because this is a case that I think for a lot of us kind of made us into murderinos and like made us obsessed with true crime and really affected our childhood, our lives, our parents' lives.

[697] But there's a lot of twist and turns that I kind of haven't been following because it's so hard to talk about.

[698] But this is the story of Adam.

[699] Walsh.

[700] Have you not done this before?

[701] I haven't.

[702] Or have I not done this before?

[703] I checked it.

[704] Did you?

[705] There was a hometown.

[706] No, no, no. There's, but I may have done it at a live show and then it just never aired.

[707] Shit.

[708] Wait, Stephen, you let us know.

[709] There was a listener, there was a listener mail.

[710] I know that happened in the, in like, early on.

[711] But did you do it in Florida when we were in Florida?

[712] I don't think so.

[713] I don't think you guys did it at a live show.

[714] I feel like would stick out in episode four you guys talk about it as part of a listener story so that's maybe what you're thinking of because we definitely didn't do it in florida because we put out all the florida episodes oh okay leave that maybe it's the oddest tool it might be the oddest tool i bet i bet that's what it is okay good leave that all in amazing this is the back this is this is this is the behind the scenes of my favorite murder because oh my god i think i did that one and i have a panic attack here let me do that again.

[715] Here's my reaction.

[716] Oh, yeah, a classic.

[717] That's what I was helping.

[718] We're like, oh, I can't believe you're going there, whatever.

[719] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[720] Okay.

[721] That's a big one.

[722] Thank you.

[723] Obviously, so much information to be gathered from this.

[724] I got information from a time article by Olivia B. Waxman, Investigation Discovery article by Catherine Townsend, Miami Herald article by David Smiley, and then Bizarapedia, Wikipedia, an Uprocks article by Daniel Figueroa, Beach Post by David Smiley and Arthur J. Harris.

[725] There's a podcast called True Murder with a really interesting interview in it that I listened to.

[726] Before we get into how much this changed our entire fucking way of lives as people, right?

[727] Yeah.

[728] Let's talk about Adam Walsh himself.

[729] So he was born on November 14th in 1974.

[730] He's six years old at this point we're talking about.

[731] He's an only child and lives in Hollywood, Florida with his parents, John and Ravei Walsh.

[732] He's a typical kid in the early 80s, obsessed with baseball and Star Wars.

[733] He's described as sweet and happy, you know, at the time, I'm younger than him, so I always thought of him as this big kid, but now that I have nephews, he's just a little kid, you know?

[734] He's a baby, six years old.

[735] He's a little baby.

[736] That's a baby.

[737] That's a baby.

[738] So July 27th, 1981, it's a typical summer day for Adam.

[739] He's on summer break before starting second grade.

[740] He's accompanying his mom on some errands.

[741] And around noon, they end up at the Hollywood, Florida in a mall.

[742] And Ravei wants to check out some lamps that were for sale on at Sears.

[743] So they go into Sears and Adams spots a display in the toy department where the new Atari 2 ,600 video games are set up for kids to try.

[744] Remember all that?

[745] Like kiosk?

[746] Oh yeah.

[747] Like fucking do this.

[748] Also, Atari, when Atari came out, so I'm basically, I'm older than you guys and, you know, he's older than you and so he's younger than me, but you don't understand before video games and then when video games came out.

[749] It was the strangest, most exciting thing.

[750] And then the fact that it was like Atari at home and then, and then Atari basically, it was like Pong at home and then Atari and then it's hard like it just kept going up and getting better by huge stride like between pong and Atari is a fucking it should be 50 years but it's not yeah so usually you can only play those games at like pizza arcades and shit pizza rates it's like the idea that they had a thing set up at Sears would be so exciting to a little kid free it's not that many people have them yeah it's a big and also this is just at the dawn of them realizing they should be marketing things to kids.

[751] Exactly.

[752] So it was everywhere in our culture.

[753] Yeah.

[754] And like any normal little boy, he sees this display and he's like, I want to, I want to try or I want to watch.

[755] Like I just doesn't matter.

[756] Like my brother would hang out at the fucking arcade all day who's basically the same age as Adam and would just watch other kids play video games.

[757] Like that was enough for them, you know.

[758] Hell yeah.

[759] So there's a few older boys taking turns playing the game and Adam wants to watch.

[760] So Raveh told him to stay there while she, it was like a couple aisles down.

[761] She's going to hop over a few departments over to check out the lamp.

[762] And that's a totally normal thing back then.

[763] And it doesn't seem that weird to me even now.

[764] You know, it's like, stay here, watch this video game, watch these kids.

[765] There's other kids alone playing.

[766] I'm literally three aisles over.

[767] I'll be back in 10 minutes.

[768] It's not, you can't judge her for that, you know, especially back not at all not especially not back then yeah not back then at all in these days because of this boy what happens to this boy literally because it would never happen if you asked my sister when nora was six if she ever would go stay here i'll be right back that would have never happened primarily like you say because of this case right while i was studying this i text my sister and i was like can you just do me a favor and never let the kids out of your fucking site ever again.

[769] Please, like, she's like, I'm not letting him out of my side till he's 20, period.

[770] She's like, got it.

[771] Yeah, she's like, no shit, Georgia.

[772] I love my child.

[773] Parent, my children, okay, sounds good.

[774] So Adam watches these older kids.

[775] Rave goes to shop.

[776] And around 1230 or so, Raveh finishes her shopping and goes back over to the Atari display.

[777] And when she gets there, Adam and the other boys are all gone.

[778] And this is according to one story, if you have, ask other witnesses, there's a whole other story of what actually happened.

[779] She grabs a store manager and they find the security guard on duty.

[780] And the security guard tells her that an argument had broken out with the older boys over her, whose turn it was.

[781] So the security guard just kicked everyone out.

[782] It was like, is your mom here?

[783] And they were like, no. And maybe Adam was too young to speak up and a little scared.

[784] So they all got kicked out of the store under the sidewalk where the parking lot is.

[785] Yeah.

[786] And he's six years old.

[787] He's six years old.

[788] I, I, I think, think in my mind I've always been like, what the fuck is wrong with that security guard?

[789] That's so screwed up.

[790] I can't believe that happened.

[791] And that never happened.

[792] Then while researching this, I find out that the security guard is a 17 year old girl.

[793] Right?

[794] It's like, that's the reality of it.

[795] Yes.

[796] And it almost sounds like she was a, like a shot, one of the secret shoppers looking for people stealing shit.

[797] It's not even like she's a security guard.

[798] So that person must have some huge guilt.

[799] and it's clearly not her fault.

[800] Well, yeah.

[801] And also that's, I doubt they're training 17 -year -old security guards of any kind in any way to be handling like any kind of bullshit like this.

[802] Like, that's, you know.

[803] And they are.

[804] The way to handle it is if their parents aren't there and they can't get in trouble, kick them out.

[805] Like, that's what you did.

[806] Right.

[807] So by now the kids are all outside and the Sears parking lot.

[808] And that's when they believe the older boys whose parents weren't there must have, you know, wandered off leaving Adam outside by himself.

[809] And so Raveh begins searching the store for Adam.

[810] She's freaking out, of course.

[811] She hasn't paged over the public address system multiple times.

[812] But after more than 90 minutes searching for him and in the mall, attached mall, she turns up nothing.

[813] So she has them called the Hollywood police at 155 p .m. Eventually helicopter and ground searches ensue and the whole town.

[814] I mean, you know, and Florida, it's, I think back then these kinds of things were local.

[815] They weren't national yet.

[816] So in Hollywood and around the surrounding area, they're all freaking out.

[817] But just after four days, the two dozen police officers assigned to the case had basically, quote, hit a wall.

[818] There was just nothing.

[819] But then on August 11th, the Walshs, who are frustrated at this point with the lack of progress in the case and hoping for any leads, they decide to go on Good Morning America, which is a national.

[820] show to appeal for help.

[821] And the photo that they use of Adam, which we all fucking remember and is seared in our heads, he's this adorable freckle face kid.

[822] He's missing two front teeth.

[823] He's holding his baseball bat and his little league pick.

[824] It's like the most, John says it's the most recent photo of him, so they use it.

[825] And they, and the photo becomes known across the country at this point.

[826] And they announce a $100 ,000 reward for the return of safe return.

[827] of Adam.

[828] But meanwhile, and I hadn't known this, that morning, John and Raveh had gotten a call while they're getting ready to go on Good Morning America at their New York hotel from investigators, letting them know that just the night before, a child's severed head had been found by fishermen floating in a drainage canal off the floor at a turnpike.

[829] Horrifying.

[830] I know.

[831] So, like, they had to decide if they were going to come home to ID this.

[832] Or are they going to go on Good Morning America and try to get more traction because they were already unhappy with how the Hollywood Police Department was handling the case.

[833] So they, you know, I think we're like hoping it wasn't him.

[834] Let's go on anyways because even if it is him, then we're still going to need any tips we can get.

[835] And also, so the canal was about 120 to 130 miles from Hollywood.

[836] So they were, I think, hoping it wasn't him.

[837] So they go on the show.

[838] And meanwhile, send a family friend to I. ID the remains who's traumatized to this day.

[839] So sadly, the recovered remains are identified as Adams and the coroner rules that the cause of death is exfixiation.

[840] And the state of the remains suggests Adam had died several days before the discovery of the head, most likely pretty close to when he disappeared, which we now know is pretty common for child abductions by strangers.

[841] The rest of his body is never recovered.

[842] The mobilization to find Adam Walsh, followed by the discovery of his murder creates this massive fucking panic and alarm in the U .S. about stranger danger.

[843] You know, as I said, normally it was like, if something happened in your county, you knew about it.

[844] Everyone panicked in the county.

[845] But outside of it, no one had ever fucking heard about this kid who went missing.

[846] It wasn't a thing.

[847] But so because, you know, John and Raveh were so determined and had these connections, they were able to make it a national story.

[848] But Adam isn't the first kid to disappear and cause.

[849] panic in the American public, two years before, another six -year -old named Eton Pats had disappeared while walking the two blocks to his school bus stop in the Soho neighborhood of Manhattan.

[850] And it was the first time his mother had ever let him walk to the school bus stop on his own.

[851] That story is the set.

[852] Didn't you do Eton Pats or did I?

[853] I think he's been in a bunch of stories we've done.

[854] But I don't think we've done him.

[855] I mean, I definitely know that one because it's so, again, it's another one of these very early missing child cases that went national.

[856] And then the details of it are so incredibly tragic and just so difficult.

[857] Unbearable sadness to them.

[858] And I'll tell you what happened.

[859] I have him later in the story as well.

[860] But I think I wonder if like the fact that he was in Manhattan, which in the late 70s wasn't the safest place to be made.

[861] people nationally be like, well, I live in a small town.

[862] I don't have to worry about stuff like that.

[863] So when Adam Walsh was missing from what was known, it's kind of a small town feel of Hollywood, people kind of paid more attention to it, which is super sad.

[864] You know what I mean?

[865] Well, but is that true?

[866] Because I think it was John Walsh's connections that got him on national television.

[867] I think if the Patsas could have, I'm sure they were on local TV, but it's like, that's an incredible connection to have that basically puts, you right to the front of the line.

[868] Right.

[869] In terms of crimes like that.

[870] Absolutely.

[871] So Eton became one of the first children to be profiled on the photo, the photo on a milk carton campaign of the early 80s, which is another cause for everyone freaking out about child abductions.

[872] And the concept of stranger danger became all the rage with the idea that all adults not known to the child must be regarded as dangerous.

[873] And I watched some videos from back then of like stranger danger and like they do these fake, you know hey kid want to come play ball and it's just like absurd and weird and like not at all what really fucking happens to children for the most part yeah except for the differences in the 70s there was no regard for children staying away from adults in any way yeah so basically they had to make a flip and make it be like hey can you stop trusting just anyone that has a puppy that is asking for your help that like all that shit can be or wants to befriend you i i understand but i don't think this is the same as like satanic panic right because this was basically like we could be protecting our kids way better and people should be because you shouldn't other adults shouldn't be able to like hit your kids or or discipline your kids and it's all that kind of thing of people starting to really go oh yeah no how about i'll take care of my own kids and you don't worry about it's almost like there was an overcorrection, which was okay because there was a lack of correction to begin with.

[874] Yeah, yeah.

[875] The overcorrection was then projecting this idea that the danger was everywhere and your children should never leave the house.

[876] Right.

[877] Right.

[878] And like even, not to say women can't be predators as well, but just like, you know, the life, don't trust the librarian or, you know, that kind of thing of like an overcorrection.

[879] Yeah.

[880] So kids were being taken to the police station to be fingerprinted.

[881] I know Vince told me when he was a kid and they went, which was like the early 80s and they went trick or treating, they, every kid in town then had to take their candy to the police department to be, what's it called?

[882] X -ray.

[883] To make sure, you know, there was no drugs or whatever.

[884] And it was just like this panic for sure.

[885] And also I was thinking about the fact that in 1979 and 1980, the Ted Bundy's trials were going on.

[886] And those were like national and huge.

[887] So people were realizing that the charming, attractive person who could easily lure women away was not, you know, was existed.

[888] He was a psychopath too.

[889] It wasn't just the fucking lurchy, creepy dudes, you know.

[890] Right.

[891] Yes, exactly.

[892] There's the wolf and sheep's clothing everywhere.

[893] So I think people were just like suddenly stunned.

[894] So Eton's case would remain cold for decades.

[895] And meanwhile, Adam became the new poster child for activists that had started a movement in the 1970s to stop, quote, child snatchers.

[896] But those activists had focused their efforts on kids who were taken by a family member in a custody dispute or children who would run away from home, which is the main cause of kids going missing.

[897] In fact, a 1990 study of child abductions found that 99 % of them were family related.

[898] But either way, they were frustrated by police department's sluggish responses to the case.

[899] You know, at the time, as we've talked about, there was a 72 -hour waiting period before they do anything to help find the kid like an eight year old a 10 year old he's a runaway we can't do anything for 72 fucking hours and once they did something they wouldn't notify police even one town over have any coordinated search going on and of course we now know that if a child is actually taken by a predator the first three to four hours are the most crucial or 24 hours to the kid's safety so john and ravey did personally believe that the hollywood police department botched the treatment of Adam's disappearance at first.

[900] They were fucking unhappy.

[901] And then the investigation into his murder, they thought was botched as well.

[902] And John refers to them as Keystone cops in his book, Tears of Rage, his like first book about it.

[903] And actually, in August 27th, after the discovery of the head, Hollywood police said they are, quote, stumped.

[904] And they scaled back the investigation to two detectives saying, quote, it can't go on forever.

[905] So, like, clearly they're inexperienced or they're insensitive or they're not good or they just don't want to ask for the help of the FBI, which is how they'd get involved.

[906] Then in October of 1983, about a year and a half after Adam's disappearance, this fucking creepy drifter named Otis Tool, who we've talked about, who was by then an inmate in Florida in a Florida prison for two unrelated murders.

[907] He starts confessing to the kidnapping and murder of Adam Walsh.

[908] Otis Tool was born in 1947 and raised in Jacksonville, Florida.

[909] He reportedly had an IQ of 75, and by the time he confesses, Otis Tool had already been suspected of various murders along with his accomplice, Henry Lee Lucas.

[910] I highly recommend the confession killer on Netflix because it'll show you what a fucking farce and what a complete fuck up, this entire, these two criminals, you know, it's just, it's horrifying.

[911] How many cases they were able to confess to and got away with, even though it was false confessions.

[912] So according to Tools Confession, which was made, by the way, the day after the made -for -TV movie about Adam Walsh came out.

[913] So basically, he in prison probably saw that movie, found out any details he could about the movie.

[914] And the next day, it was like, oh, I did that one too.

[915] Yeah.

[916] starring Daniel J. Trevante and Joe Beth Williams based on Adam's kidnapping and murder.

[917] He said he lured Adam away from the mall parking lot into his white 1971 Cadillac by offering him candy and toys, blah, blah, blah.

[918] He says Adam came willingly, which you and I have seen fucking photos of Otis Tool.

[919] That guy's terrifying.

[920] Yeah.

[921] No, there's no way.

[922] It wouldn't have happened.

[923] And so he says more about it, but I'm not going to repeat it because I don't fucking believe it at all, you know.

[924] Right.

[925] It's very opportunistic and it was that kind of thing where when he started talking, the cops that were trying to clear cases got so excited about clearing those cases that they were giving information.

[926] Yeah.

[927] Yeah.

[928] It's all in that.

[929] It's confession killers.

[930] The confession killer.

[931] It's that confession killer is mostly about Henry Lee Lucas, but it also talks about Otis Tool and they are pretty similar.

[932] Okay.

[933] I haven't seen that, but I know that that's be, yeah.

[934] It's maddening.

[935] It's maddening.

[936] Yeah, they want to clear cases.

[937] And this is the, like, this is, once everyone, all the other, uh, police departments had realized that they were being lied to and these cases were not actually done by these criminals.

[938] Like Hollywood, the Hollywood Florida police department were like the last ones to keep believing it.

[939] Yeah.

[940] So while both Tool and his sometimes lover and accomplice, Henry Lee Lucas, they were notorious.

[941] claiming guilt for murders they could not feasibly even have committed.

[942] And this is like hundreds of murders they'd confessed to.

[943] They would both make corroborating statements for each other or try to outdo each other or maybe they were trying to get into a mental institution instead of being in prison or just, you know, they'd get favors if they confessed to things.

[944] So that's why they did it.

[945] Toole had originally said that both he and Henry Lee Lucas were responsible for Adam's murder, that they had committed it together until suddenly the investigators realized that Henry Lee Lucas had been locked up during the time that Adam disappeared.

[946] It was literally impossible for him to be part of it.

[947] So then Tool changed his story, said that Henry Leelukis wasn't involved.

[948] They accepted it.

[949] Okay.

[950] And while investigators said that he knew details only the killer could have known, we all know.

[951] now how easy it is to inadvertently feed that info for the confession.

[952] We all now know how easy it is to inadvertently feed that information so someone can confess to it.

[953] It's like, it's the same thing as like in serial when they're feeding fucking J details of the murder and rewarding him for getting it right.

[954] So going back to the interrogation transcripts tool doesn't actually give any details.

[955] He So let's fucking clear it all up with DNA testing and the blood that was actually found in Otis Tool's car.

[956] There is blood on the fucking ground in the car.

[957] Let's DNA test it.

[958] Not possible because a few weeks after Tools confession, police announced that they had lost his car that had been confiscated along with the bloodstained carpet that had been cut out from the car and the machete that Otis Tool said he used to decapitate Adam.

[959] It's all missing.

[960] It's gone.

[961] There's no DNA testing to be done.

[962] So police still spent months trying to connect him somehow with the murder and they couldn't.

[963] And a year later, after they'd already announced that they had found the killer at a press conference, they drop the tool as a suspect completely.

[964] Wow.

[965] So he eventually retracts his confession, saying he had no involvement.

[966] He goes back and forth a few times.

[967] It's utter bullshit.

[968] It changes the story constantly.

[969] He's convicted of three counts of murder that are unrelated to Adam Walsh's murder.

[970] and he sentenced to death, which was later commuted to life in prison.

[971] There are witnesses placing him in the Hollywood area the days before Adam's disappearance.

[972] And supposedly his car was spotted at the mall around the time, although that's not corroborated until way after, you know, years later.

[973] And after his death in prison in 1996 from cirrhosis, his niece said that he had confessed to Adam's, murder on his deathbed.

[974] Well, I think a lot of people believe that he did it.

[975] I'm not one of them.

[976] I don't think so.

[977] I'm not either.

[978] The police are.

[979] So there's another person who's become a suspect in a lot of people's minds in recent years, which is Jeffrey Dahmer.

[980] At first, I was like, what the fuck are you talking?

[981] Like, Jeffrey Dahmer, that's bananas.

[982] But even though I'm still, I'm not totally convinced of this, the facts are really interesting.

[983] So a journalist named Arthur J. Harris discovered that Dahmer had been living in Miami in March of 1981.

[984] He had been discharged from the army due to alcoholism, and that puts him just 20 miles from Hollywood at the time of Adam's disappearance.

[985] And it turns out that Dahmer had actually been questioned for Adam's murder way back when, which is like fucking crazy, right?

[986] So when Dahmer's picture, so what happened was when Dommer's picture was in the newspapers in 1991 when he had been arrested, you know, finally.

[987] caught for all these fucking sick murders he had committed.

[988] Several witnesses who saw the photo, his photo in the newspaper, who had been at the mall the day Adam had disappeared, contacted authorities and were like, that's the fucking guy I saw.

[989] They were like, remember the statement I gave you?

[990] Remember how I told you was this person?

[991] That's fucking him.

[992] Which is hard, you know, eyewitness statements we know isn't totally reliable, but there were multiple people who did that.

[993] There's this dude named Willis Morgan and he wrote a book called Frustrated Witness so he was at the um he worked at a newspaper it was his day off the monday that adam disappeared he was at the hollywood mall in a radio shack and was approached by this creepy fucking dude you know who fit dommer's description and he and this guy uh lis morgan kind of tailed him to be like this guy's creeped out and he lost him when he went into the toy department at sears and then a couple days later he goes to the police to tell them like he had seen, you know, because he works at the newspaper, he saw Adam had been kidnapped and he wanted to tell them about this fucking creepy guy he saw.

[994] And they were like, yeah, great, whatever, we'll get back to you.

[995] They never contacted him again.

[996] And one man said that he saw a man fitting, um, Dahmer's description throw a struggling kid into a blue van and speed off.

[997] And the blue van just keeps coming up.

[998] The day after Adam's head had been found in the canal off the turnpike.

[999] So two long haul truckers, this guy, Dennis Bub, and another guy named Clifford Ramey, they called authorities to let them know that a few days before the head had been found in the canal, they had both seen a blue van parked off that exact turnpike in the middle of the night.

[1000] And the guy, Dennis Bubb drove by first in his trucker, what is it called?

[1001] A semi.

[1002] Yes.

[1003] Dennis Bubb drove by first in his semi.

[1004] And he saw a guy with a flashlight down near the canal.

[1005] And he radioed this guy Clifford Ramey, who was like a mile behind.

[1006] him to be like, hey, let me know if you, if you spot this van, because I think, you know, there's no cell phone.

[1007] So like if this person is stranded, we'll rate, we'll see B, the, you know, help or try to help him, whatever, you know, if he had mechanical problems.

[1008] So Ramey said that when he was driving by, he was focusing on the van to see if he needed help.

[1009] And he said he didn't notice a flat tire.

[1010] The hood wasn't up, you know, and the, and the lights weren't flashing indicating something was wrong with the van.

[1011] And instead, he said he saw a. white man leading through the opening the slide door on the on the side and fumbling around with a white bucket and both said that they had talked to Hollywood police they called days after the head had been found like knowing that this might be connected and their statements were dismissed they never they said it has nothing to do with the case they never got contacted again and i listened to interviews with one of them and i mean it sounds legitimate it sounds like your dad fucking telling you what you saw.

[1012] Yeah, but I mean, they didn't see anything that's actual like evidence.

[1013] I mean, they saw a person down by the canal, but that person could have been fishing.

[1014] I mean, it's not like they were like, and we saw this child or we saw thing.

[1015] I think that's the one problem.

[1016] The thing is like fishing, it was the middle of the night and it was also not a like fishing canal.

[1017] I think it was just like a, you know, waste area.

[1018] And the thing here to think about is the blue van, which is another through line with all of these people.

[1019] So I'll get to the blue van in a second.

[1020] When authorities questioned Dahmer, now that he's in custody in 1991, he denies everything, including any access to this kind of, you know, any vehicle back when he lived in Miami.

[1021] And so his involvement was ruled out by police.

[1022] But it turns out when this journalist named Arthur J. Harris does some digging later, he finds that Dahmer had been working in Miami at a sandwich shop and at the time he got this corroborated by a few employees who had worked there that there was a blue van like a store van for deliveries that employees were allowed to take so multiple people drove this blue van and one of the truck drivers also stated that he thought the van he saw by the side of the canal had no front passenger seat and the sandwich shop's blue van had a milk crate instead of a passenger seat Oh.

[1023] Remember those cars that had a fucking melt crate instead of a fucking passenger seat?

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] Remember those cars that your friends had in high school that had holes where you could see the ground passing underneath the car and you had to make sure that you didn't get your foot near that?

[1027] I mean, like, yep.

[1028] Here's the thing.

[1029] This is like there's so many things like this in true crime, I feel like.

[1030] And we've talked about a bunch of them too.

[1031] The theories that want to connect big murders to us.

[1032] other big murders and it's a it's a thing much in the same way that the human eye sees faces and wood grains it's that thing of like what if this is all connected what if it's one evil what if it's three evils as opposed to 500 ,000 evils I totally get that but also in the early 80s late 70s early 80s lots of dudes looked like how creepy and weird Jeffrey Dahmer looked in the 90s totally had transition fucking lenses and a part down the middle and I think and the mustache and the mustache it totally could have been him too I mean like who fucking know who knows um and when you don't have like good evidence and good police work because it's been lost yeah yeah I think the point I think I to me Dahmer is more it makes more sense as a suspect than tool but I don't think Dahmer actually did it I think that it's a much simpler explanation but I think for me what I've learned from all this is the point is oddest tool is so not the person and the case has been closed and they said it's oddest tool and I just don't think it is and I think this whole thing about look how much evidence there is against fucking Dommer it's more than fucking oddest tool if you want to clear it and actually have a little bit of a chain of evidence but yeah okay anyway and it's funny that you say that because about the about the what was not Roershock but the face it's basically confirmation bias it's when we can see faces pattern and things.

[1033] We want patterns.

[1034] So there's a photo of oddest tools like floor mat in his car, the one that got lost, where there's like a bloodstain and one of the, one of the detectives insists that in the bloodstain, you can see the imprint of Adam's face.

[1035] And it's fucking not.

[1036] It's not that.

[1037] You can see it if you want to, like I saw it.

[1038] It's not what that is.

[1039] And it's that confirmation bias of C. Otis Tool did it.

[1040] It's a fucking, you know, Virgin Mary and a piece of toast, such a taste.

[1041] Yes.

[1042] Right.

[1043] Exactly.

[1044] Where it's like, if it's serving your narrative, it's easier to see things like that and it's easier to, you know, it's this has happened before in true crime where it's like suddenly there's people that are within 200 miles of another bad thing.

[1045] Right.

[1046] Suddenly it's like, well, you know, so -and -so live there at that time.

[1047] I mean, is, okay, let me keep going.

[1048] Okay.

[1049] Okay.

[1050] Another witness, and there are a couple witnesses from that day at the mall who ID Dahmer is being at the scene of a, there's a similar child abduction attempt at a different Florida mall two weeks earlier.

[1051] And there's a police sketch of the suspect that it, you know, like you said, it fucking could look like him, but a lot of people looked like him back then.

[1052] But there are some similarities.

[1053] And it's a similar type of crime of trying to adopt abducted children.

[1054] So there's some fucking child abductor in the area at the time.

[1055] Yes.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] I'm sure there was a lot.

[1058] And also remember one of Dahmer's M .O. when he was caught, was decapitation.

[1059] He was found with 11 decapitated heads in his house.

[1060] So that to me is like more than circumstantial a little bit.

[1061] Well, right.

[1062] It goes to an M .O. It like lines things up a little more logically, but, um, yeah, it also doesn't.

[1063] I mean, like, it's, it's so general.

[1064] Totally.

[1065] What's frustrating about all of it is that, that like, basically citizen detectives have to sit home and try to piece, yeah, puzzle piece things together because they're just like, it's a six -year -old child's murder and they didn't they just didn't do it yeah and we want things to be right with the world like we don't want six -year -olds to be fucking kidnapped and murdered and if they are then we want the fucking monsters brought to justice but we don't believe it's happened i mean all i it drives me it i knowing this story and knowing how he got kicked out of a sears at yeah six all you want is that exterior video but it was like probably before the time where every store had that it's that kind of thing where like it's just so frustrating where how could this be but it's like this was back in the time where there was big old loopholes yeah well if you believe this domer theory there isn't revay never actually says she she came back he was gone and she found out they got kicked out that did happen but other there's like three witnesses who say they they saw a kid who fit adam's description being dragged out by a man who fit domer's description So it might actually not be what had happened, depending on what fucking theory you believe and what timeline you believe.

[1066] And if you believe the witnesses who all seem like they, and the security guard, the 17 year old security guard, didn't acknowledge that it or like admit that she thought it was Adam that she kicked out until 1996 the whole time she was like, I don't think Adam was with them.

[1067] It just, it might not eat that part might not even be true.

[1068] Some guy might have.

[1069] So sorry, what is this part of a man pulling him out?

[1070] You haven't talked about that.

[1071] Yeah, because it's just, it's like if you believe, it just depends on what you believe.

[1072] So there's a couple people who saw, you know, first there's the guy that we were talked about who saw him walk into the toy section of the Sears.

[1073] And then there's a mother who saw a creepy man trying to talk to her kids near the Atari thing.

[1074] There's another man who saw a man, you know, dragging a kid out of Sears.

[1075] And the kid was saying, you're not my dad, but the guy was like, maybe it's just his stepdad.

[1076] And, of course, he said that to your stepdad.

[1077] And, like, someone else saw, you know, him, a man like that throw a kid into a blue van that matched the description and never called and felt guilty about it.

[1078] And someone else had almost rear -ended a blue van in the parking lot that day.

[1079] And he was parked illegally.

[1080] Like, it almost feels like there's more evidence that says someone took him out of the store than the security guard kicking him out of the store.

[1081] store.

[1082] Oh, okay.

[1083] That's the, this is the like agreed upon story is that they all got kicked out.

[1084] And I have no fucking way of knowing if that's true or not.

[1085] It seems to not matter because all these statements were dismissed.

[1086] I think another thing.

[1087] So in the very beginning, so there was this young man in his 20s who had lived with the Walsh's as like a, you know, as like help, not help, but like took care of the kids, was like a contractor, was like a family friend and lived with the Walsh's.

[1088] And live with the Walsh's for four years.

[1089] And it came out that Rave had had an affair with him.

[1090] And he got kicked out like the week before.

[1091] He was really close with Adam.

[1092] And so they, they, you know, focused on him as the possible kidnapper and killer, which I highly doubt he is.

[1093] He passed lie detector tests.

[1094] He had alibis.

[1095] He was not the kind of person.

[1096] So anything, any kind of evidence of like someone at the all that day being like, dude, I saw some creepy guy.

[1097] I think back in 1981, the investigators were like, we don't fucking care.

[1098] It's not him.

[1099] We don't care about the van parked on the side of the fucking road and on the turnpike.

[1100] That has nothing to do with this family friend having done it.

[1101] Right.

[1102] So there's a lot of uncooperated witnesses and statements that now just sound like hearsay because they were never checked back then.

[1103] Right.

[1104] So the thing is that Dahmer was known for confessing to everything.

[1105] So he repeatedly denied involvement in Adam's case, which the law enforcement are like, why would he lie about this one?

[1106] And not the other ones.

[1107] He said, quote, I've told you everything, how I killed them, how I cooked them, who I ate.

[1108] Why wouldn't I tell you if I did someone else?

[1109] But of course, everyone knows that having killed a very young child of, you know, six years old, would have gotten probably a ton of shit from both the inmates and the guards when he went to prison.

[1110] I think that's really, there's a lot to that, though.

[1111] It's him basically being like, I've made these terrible confessions.

[1112] Clearly, if I'm going to get it out, I'll just get it all out now.

[1113] Why wouldn't I tell you?

[1114] I didn't do that.

[1115] But it doesn't mean, I mean, again, I'm saying it doesn't mean someone who didn't look a lot like that guy.

[1116] Totally.

[1117] Because it's just like, just because we recognize one person as being this really bad person, doesn't mean there's not another person somewhere else in the country.

[1118] There probably is.

[1119] That's really bad.

[1120] that look like that, you know, that also gives off like intense creep vibes where many people were like, who was that guy in Sears that day?

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] That's really telling.

[1123] Another conspiracy with the case that you and I have talked about is that a lot of people don't think the head that was found belonged to Adam because, well, it is that of a young boy doesn't fit the description of Adam's teeth at the time.

[1124] You know, he was missing both teeth.

[1125] The photo of the head that they found has a tooth.

[1126] I do think it is Adam.

[1127] I think that maybe some decomposition had gone on and the tooth, adult tooth had ruptured.

[1128] I don't think it's, I don't think it's anyone else.

[1129] It was so close.

[1130] There was a child his age missing and that was found within a month.

[1131] You know, it just, I can't imagine it's fucking not him, which is so sad.

[1132] But at the same time, it doesn't help that Arthur J. Harris, that journalist found that the head was identified as ad as being Adam only by a single dental filling that Adam had in the back of his mouth in the same place where a lot of kids get a filling because they chew candy or whatever.

[1133] Back right molar, baby.

[1134] Exactly.

[1135] Go early.

[1136] Yep.

[1137] So they use that.

[1138] And no one ever consulted a forensic dentist.

[1139] And his dental records are now also missing.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] So there's no way to tell.

[1142] So let's fast forward to the future a little bit on December 16.

[1143] 2008, Hollywood Police Chief Chad Wagner, who when he became police chief, had conducted an external review of the case.

[1144] Well, he held a news conference with the Walsh's present, and he apologized to the Walsh's for, quote, investigative mistakes that had transpired during the early years of the investigation, so he apologized to them.

[1145] And in fact, the Walsh's, this is so fucked up, they weren't allowed to have custody of their son's skull for 27 years because it was an open capital murder case.

[1146] So they had to have an empty casket funeral.

[1147] It's just horrific.

[1148] But also at the conference, Wagner announced that they were satisfied that with the evidence, which is all circumstantial at this point, and according to Willis Morgan, based only on retired Miami Beach Detective Sergeant Joe Matthews, allegedly biased research in which he doesn't contact any of the witnesses from the Hollywood Mall.

[1149] He does this huge research.

[1150] He does this huge project, but doesn't talk to any witnesses.

[1151] And that's what they used to confirm that they think that Otis tool is the murderer.

[1152] Period.

[1153] And the case is fucking closed.

[1154] That's it.

[1155] Yeah.

[1156] So basically, the easiest way possible.

[1157] Right.

[1158] Not to do the actual footwork.

[1159] Yeah.

[1160] There's no DNA to test.

[1161] Okay.

[1162] Both Walsh parents, though, believe that Otis tool is the murder of their son, which I think does lend a lot of, like, they can't just want to close the case.

[1163] I mean, I'm sure they do.

[1164] but they wouldn't just fucking, who the fuck knows?

[1165] You know, it's hard to question these two grieving parents.

[1166] Well, also, they might have learned or known something that never got out.

[1167] They might be insight.

[1168] They might have insight that we don't have, like, especially after all this time, who knows, who knows.

[1169] Yeah.

[1170] I feel like to me, that's the biggest, like, the thing that convinces me most, if anything, that he did it is that they believe it more than anything else.

[1171] So, of course, this case being so highly publicized, changed the way parents kept track of their kids.

[1172] This guy Richard Moran, who's a criminologist at Mount Holyoke College, said that Adam's case, quote, created a nation of petrified kids and paranoid parents.

[1173] But meanwhile, the Walsh's channeled their incredible grief into a lifetime of child advocacy.

[1174] There's the thought of how much grief they went through and how much grief they go through every time they choose to show up and discuss their son's murder.

[1175] It's not like they were like, we don't want to talk about this anymore.

[1176] move on.

[1177] They're like, let's fucking keep this here for almost 40 years.

[1178] So just four days after their son's funeral, Adam's parents started the Adam Walsh Outreach Center for Missing Children.

[1179] They also lobbied for the Missing Children's Act, which enacted in 1982 required entry of missing children into the FBI's National Crime Center database, the NCIC.

[1180] Like, there was no national fucking list of missing children at the time.

[1181] Right.

[1182] It's just fucking willy -nilly.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] In 1984, the Walsh has co -founded an organization to aid and comfort other families of missing children called the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which makes so much sense you think of all the grief and horror, the fucking parents who are missing their kid is going through.

[1185] They need someone to advocate for them.

[1186] And now they have a group to do that.

[1187] It's so important.

[1188] And in 1988, John Walsh began hosting the TV show America's Most Wanted, which the FBI credits for helping capture at least 17.

[1189] of their 10 most wanted fugitives, and which I wrote, turned an entire generation of kids into murderinos while scaring the ever -loving shit out of us and convincing us we were constantly about to be kidnapped.

[1190] And so we all memorized the hotline number.

[1191] So now in 1983, when that made -for -TV movie premiered, that oddest tool had probably seen, 38 million viewers watched it on its first airing.

[1192] And each time it aired, the show was followed by pictures and descriptions of Miss actual missing children.

[1193] And a hotline was created to take calls regarding those kids.

[1194] And ultimately, 13 of the 55 children shown in the original broadcast were located.

[1195] Wow.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] Including Bone Thugs and Harmony rapper, Busy Bone.

[1198] Busy Bone was missing?

[1199] Busy Bone in 1980 at four years old, he and his two sisters had been abducted by their mother's boyfriend.

[1200] And his missing photo was one of those shown.

[1201] And it was recognized by a neighbor, and they were reunited with their fucking mother.

[1202] Oh, my God.

[1203] And I wrote, thank God.

[1204] I know, I wrote, if pub quizzes ever exist again, you got to remember this fucking fact.

[1205] But also, that's so dark.

[1206] So dark.

[1207] Yeah, that would have been just like a, I mean, that's, that's the other thing to you.

[1208] And you said this in the beginning, but it's most kidnapped children, it's family related.

[1209] It's almost the entire majority.

[1210] that doesn't mean that the person that took that child just because they're blood related isn't a scary, threatening, awful person or vice versa where they're, they accuse the mother of kidnapping the children, but actually they are trying to get out of a domestic abuse situation.

[1211] So that's busybone.

[1212] You said 13 kids were recovered.

[1213] And how many had they shown?

[1214] So the first, there was three showings of the show.

[1215] And so in the first showing, they showed different children every time.

[1216] every showing.

[1217] And so the first one, they showed 55 children and 13 of them were recovered.

[1218] Oh, wow.

[1219] That's good.

[1220] Yeah.

[1221] That's good.

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] So in 1994, big box and department stores began implementing Code Adam, which was used to mobilize all store clerks when a child is reported missing in the store.

[1224] Because back then, when he went missing in Sears, they were like, what the fuck do you want us to do?

[1225] We can't do another, you know, they kept doing announcements over the PA system, but they were like, we can't keep doing, you know, nobody fucking cared or new.

[1226] There was no process set up where it's like the entire store goes on lock, which is what they do now.

[1227] Right.

[1228] So I looked up, of course, in our email and a murderer named Carrie sent a hometown in.

[1229] And she said, I started working at a retailer who adopted this code as a teenager.

[1230] And in our training, we learned that when Code Adam blasts over the intercom, all associates stop what they're doing and head to the nearest exit to stop any child from exiting the building or anyone.

[1231] leaving with a child.

[1232] She says, I still get teary -eyed thinking about why this was put into place, but I'm very grateful for it.

[1233] In the four years I worked there, it was Target, we stopped two, quote, almost abductions and countless little ones from walking right out the front automated doors to possibly be never seen again, which is amazing.

[1234] In 2003, Congress actually made it mandatory for all federal buildings to have Code Adam programs in effect.

[1235] In 2006, the U .S. Congress passed the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act, a bill which institutes a national database of convicted child molesters and increases penalties for sexual and violent offenses against children.

[1236] And as for Eton Pats, his disappearance in New York was cold for decades, but his case was reopened in 2010 and eventually his killer, who is a man named Pedro Hernandez, was found and he confessed.

[1237] And on February 14th, 2017, a jury found him guilty of murdering kidnapping.

[1238] And at the time of Eton's disappearance, it turns out that Hernandez was an 18 -year -old convenience store worker in a neighborhood bodega where it's thought that Eton had stopped on his walk to the bus stop for a soda.

[1239] And Hernandez was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.

[1240] So next July, we'll mark 40 years since Adam Walsh was abducted.

[1241] I know it's 40 fucking years 40 years John and Ravei are still married They had three children after Adam's tragic murder So John is now in his 70s And he hosts along with his son Callahan Investigation Discoveries in pursuit with John Walsh So they're still trying to catch the bad guy And Callahan said Quote I watched my parents channel their emotion And their anger and their energy To make sure that there was a response mechanism from missing children because there was very little help at the time.

[1242] I watched my father go on to capture fugitive after fugitive on America's Most Wanted.

[1243] They never gave up hope.

[1244] They never gave up on the fight.

[1245] So I'm here following in their footsteps, huge shoes to fill, but trying to fight back in Adam's honor.

[1246] And that is the disappearance and murder of Adam Walsh.

[1247] God.

[1248] I know.

[1249] I know.

[1250] So old.

[1251] So old and deep.

[1252] Yeah.

[1253] Deep, deep.

[1254] And also just terribly, terribly mishandled and so incredibly kind of unsatisfying in terms of discussing it as a case.

[1255] Because it's just like, and now I'll talk you all the way up to this point and then we hit a wall.

[1256] And now this is theory and now this is, I mean, that idea where you're talking about there's witness statements saying a young child was being dragged out of the store that there were, it sounded like more than one person.

[1257] It didn't sound like a ton.

[1258] I saw a creepy guy that day.

[1259] There was a attempted abduction one town over.

[1260] Here's his sketch.

[1261] Like, do something.

[1262] All that, like, all of that should have been, you know.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] It's just so frustrating.

[1265] It's funny because I was going to say I have that same frustration when you're, when basically this feels like a cold case that isn't a cold case.

[1266] But it is a cold case knowing Otis Tool confess to hundreds and hundreds of murders he had nothing to do with.

[1267] like that I it's just so embarrassing it's just so um yeah yeah it's just frustrating and there's the question of like is the evidence missing because they wanted to pin it on him and so they just happen to not have it because it would prove otherwise or i mean in 1989 did you know some fucking rookie officer like steal the machete to show to his drinking buddies and did someone steal the like you know to I mean that's like the fun times right you know direction you could take it but all those big piece of evidence missing is is at the very least you're doing your job terribly and and then at the most like fucking conspiracy yeah the coroner not signing hard evidence right the coroner not signing off on having received the dental fucking exam and you know what's that like what and I told you about like uh he had, uh, Adam had been ID'd as this, the head that was found based on the dental exam, that's gone, you know, the like, coroner never actually signed off on a true autopsy.

[1268] It was like a visual autopsy, not an actual autopsy.

[1269] You know, it's just shit like that.

[1270] That just, you want to blame it on 1981, but that's, they're not fucking stupid people.

[1271] It's like they were a little.

[1272] Yeah, there were processes in place that you were supposed to be following.

[1273] And they're very similar to the ones we have now.

[1274] They're not that fucking different.

[1275] So.

[1276] yeah yeah it is it is it is just a big question mark and it's not you know like I yes I I understand the appeal of the Dalmer theory yeah yeah I bet if you're in Florida right now you could walk out on the sidewalk and see like two dudes that look like Jeffrey Dahmer I mean I think it's a look yeah I bet you could look at the chair right on the couch and fucking someone who looks like Jeffrey Dahmer like why are you got those How come your transition lenses are gray again?

[1277] I know you think those are in style now, but I know your member's only jacket, your tan members only jackets, like, cool, but...

[1278] I know you're all about convenience, but...

[1279] Like, question if your boyfriend thinks it's cool to dress like a fucking serial killer every time.

[1280] Should we do some, uh, a couple hometowns just to light a mood?

[1281] A couple fucking hoorays.

[1282] Oops, I'm sorry.

[1283] A couple fucking hoorays.

[1284] Okay, here's my first one.

[1285] This is from, oh, low, you didn't.

[1286] A former patient born extremely premature.

[1287] weighing only a pound just celebrated their first birthday fucking hooray for preemies the strongest and most resilient humans ever that's beautiful nice so beautiful um this funds on instagram from ah hn 84 my fucking hooray this week is that on sunday i got to help burke county rescue squad rescue a dog stranded in a 30 inch sinkhole in in pigs pisca national forest, western North Carolina.

[1288] We built a hall system and lowered a rescuer and a big bag of beef jerky down the hole.

[1289] And he calmed the dog and made a harness for him so we could haul him out of the hole.

[1290] We don't know how long he was down there, but as of today, he is healthy and doing well.

[1291] And then she writes, plug to support volunteer search and rescue organizations.

[1292] They work hard to get lost and injured folks and pups out of the wilderness safely.

[1293] Nice.

[1294] Oh, a dog in a hole.

[1295] I'm going to think, oh, they got them.

[1296] This one is from Amanda Christine Rose, and it just says, I'm staying in a tree house this weekend.

[1297] Yay.

[1298] That's the whole thing.

[1299] But it's, that kind of sounds fun.

[1300] It's because she's going to stay the whole weekend.

[1301] That's awesome.

[1302] That's needed.

[1303] Amanda, right back and let us know how your tree house is going.

[1304] I'd like to see some picks.

[1305] I realized, Vincent and I realized that we haven't spent one night away from our house in 2020.

[1306] and so we're staying in at like cabin next week and I'm so excited perfect that's good a little change of pace this is from Kelly Reichhart underscore art and it just says leaving hospital today after breast cancer surgery fucking hooray fucking hooray girl yeah Kelly congratulations you did it envision big shields in front of you of strength Throw some pottery.

[1307] Oritude.

[1308] Get a mo -mo and throw some pottery for relaxation.

[1309] Okay, my last one's from Tara loves tea.

[1310] And it says, I met my current boyfriend because I started going on walks around my neighborhood due to COVID.

[1311] And he is my neighbor.

[1312] We've never talked until I saw him leaving for work every morning.

[1313] We connected and are now moving into a house together next month.

[1314] Oh, my God, I'm your neighbor.

[1315] Tara loves tea.

[1316] What if in the hope out there?

[1317] What if in the beginning of this episode where we're like, don't move into with someone.

[1318] After only three months, she's like, shit.

[1319] Delete, delete, delete.

[1320] Oh, my God.

[1321] It's the perfect ending.

[1322] We're like, girl, you go for it.

[1323] He's probably the best.

[1324] He's definitely never been on love fraud.

[1325] But just in case, please watch that documentary.

[1326] Google his ass.

[1327] Oh, my God.

[1328] That's so cute.

[1329] She started going to walks.

[1330] I still believe.

[1331] I still believe in love.

[1332] I still believe.

[1333] I know.

[1334] That's the cutest.

[1335] What if you're like, your, your, You're out there and you're wearing your sweatshirt with the thumbholes that keeps it pulled down and you're doing your walks.

[1336] You're being very taken care of yourself.

[1337] And here comes a wonderful professional man leaving every morning for work during quarantine.

[1338] Where do you work, sir?

[1339] Hopefully you're a park.

[1340] You're a landscaper.

[1341] But she sees some hot guy leaving for work every day.

[1342] Now it's love.

[1343] And thank God.

[1344] She's like, thank God I wore my mask that says, ask me about.

[1345] how cool I am because he was like, hey, how cool are you?

[1346] And then he was like, ask me about I'm single.

[1347] And he was like, hey, are you single?

[1348] I'm sorry, your landscape company is called Ask Me If I'm Single.

[1349] Okay, I guess.

[1350] That's the way you get.

[1351] All right.

[1352] I mean, who are we to judge?

[1353] Who are we?

[1354] Who are we to judge?

[1355] Nobody.

[1356] I bought roller skates on a fucking whim today.

[1357] I mean, what?

[1358] Are they your fucking hooray?

[1359] Yeah, that's my fucking array.

[1360] I'm not roller skates as a 40 -year -old woman.

[1361] Who fucking cares?

[1362] Where are you going to, where do you, or might you skate?

[1363] I'm going to, I'm in a really awkwardly tight skate walk in front of my garage until I'm not terrified of skating, like an old lady.

[1364] And then you have to turn out like nine feet later you have to turn up, clomp, clomp, and I'm going to meet my neighbors and it's going to say, ask me about how cool I am.

[1365] And you're going to get, oh my God, all these marriage proposals, but here comes Vince.

[1366] comes in once again proving that's right letting him move in was a good idea turns out he didn't steal all our furniture and mimi he was just uh cleaning getting it all cleaned at the cleaners and now we have a lovely house it's all fine what's your fucking hooray everything's fine well my fucking ray is that my friend charlie just came to stay with me because he was he had to quarantine before he started a movie job and we had it was hilarious it was so fun and we were so lazy it was like we were justifying each other's first habits and and it was really relaxing and I realized like in COVID I'm having a lot of weird reactions to things that aren't that big that feel very big and it's hard to it's hard to keep things right sized where it's like it's just business nothing's gonna happen right now but like feels like oh this is it we're done for there's a lot of those kind of things and when there's one other person in the room to just go is it me or is this person a total asshole and they're like no no you're completely right that's all you need.

[1367] Are you talking about me?

[1368] Well, sometimes.

[1369] It just depended on what we were talking about.

[1370] Look, the topic changed night from night to night.

[1371] You know what I just decided?

[1372] You know what I decided?

[1373] He was here for what?

[1374] Vince and I are coming over on Sunday to a distance hanging with you.

[1375] Fucking to my house.

[1376] You don't even, if you're not there, we're coming on Sunday.

[1377] You and I have not spent enough FaceTime together and it's crappening.

[1378] No, you're right.

[1379] Please, I would love it.

[1380] It helps.

[1381] It's so nice.

[1382] Because look, I can, I'm very.

[1383] good at being with myself and I, you know, don't get, like, fraught.

[1384] But it really is, like, what you're saying.

[1385] Just sit, like, you and me and Vince standing in the pool, eight feet away from each other, gabbing it up.

[1386] Yeah.

[1387] It's, like, it's bomb for the soul.

[1388] It's, it's fucking asked me about how cool I am time.

[1389] And it's going to crack.

[1390] Look, you're both going to try to ask me to marry you.

[1391] I'm going to call the police on you because it's illegal.

[1392] What if it says ask us if we're single?

[1393] And it's like, hey, guys.

[1394] Hey, you guys.

[1395] This is uncomfortable.

[1396] First of all.

[1397] I don't need to ask you.

[1398] I know you're not.

[1399] Your mask doesn't make you not single.

[1400] Oh, no. Ask me if I'm single.

[1401] Guys, thanks for listening.

[1402] We hope you're fucking, we hope you're living your best quarantine life, whatever that means for you.

[1403] All right, guys, we were trying to say goodbye, but now we really are saying goodbye.

[1404] So stay healthy, stay indoors, wear a mask, and stay sexy.

[1405] And don't get murder.

[1406] Goodbye.

[1407] Elvis, do you want a cookie?