Hillary Clinton

[0] I got to get this one good.

[1] It's got to be the best one I ever did.

[2] Okay.

[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[4] I didn't pass the test.

[5] I wanted this to be the best intro I ever did.

[6] Yeah, and then you started off like, while I was trying to go extra low.

[7] Take two.

[8] Oh, my.

[9] Welcome, welcome, welcome.

[10] Why do you like it to be so deep?

[11] Because it's pleasing.

[12] Oh.

[13] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[14] I'm Dan Shepard.

[15] joined by Monaster Moused.

[16] Hi.

[17] What a good day today is.

[18] Yes.

[19] Oh, my gosh.

[20] This is one of the invites that came with an exclamation point when you sent me the email.

[21] Yeah.

[22] I said, can you believe it?

[23] And in the calendar, it always had an exclamation point.

[24] That's Wobby Wob, yeah.

[25] Yeah.

[26] He adds exclamation points to people he's excited about.

[27] Yes, and then we are excited about it.

[28] Very.

[29] Yeah, so I say it during this interview, but I heard.

[30] heard her on Howard Stern, and I just enjoyed it so darn much.

[31] And I immediately told you to listen to it.

[32] Such a fantastic interview.

[33] And I remember thinking, God, I wish I could talk to her as well, an interviewer.

[34] And here we are.

[35] Hillary Rodham Clinton is an American politician, a diplomat, a lawyer, a writer, a public speaker.

[36] She was Secretary of State.

[37] She was a first lady.

[38] She was a senator.

[39] By God, she was on the Nixon impeachment team.

[40] She's done everything.

[41] She's literally done everything.

[42] She was the first female presidential candidate.

[43] That's right.

[44] She somehow found time to write four books.

[45] There's an amazing documentary on Hulu.

[46] I really recommend everyone see it.

[47] And now she has a new podcast called You and Me Both with Hillary Clinton.

[48] And I've listened to it.

[49] She's fantastic.

[50] She has access to some of the most stimulating thinkers on the planet.

[51] And you should check that out as well.

[52] So that's you and me both with Hillary Clinton.

[53] You can find that on all the places you find podcasts.

[54] Please enjoy.

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[56] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[57] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[58] Here we are.

[59] Here we are.

[60] So I've been cleaning.

[61] My favorite COVID activity, I've been cleaning.

[62] Oh, what rooms did you tackle?

[63] Oh, my gosh.

[64] I've been working my way up from the basement.

[65] I'm now in the attic.

[66] Oh, my good.

[67] Goodness, so really soup to nuts.

[68] Making lots of progress.

[69] Are you doing a Michelle Condo approach?

[70] Is that her name on a bit?

[71] No. Marie Condo.

[72] Marie Condo.

[73] Are you like putting things out and seeing it, like, I love you, or I don't love you, that whole thing?

[74] Yeah, but unlike her, I end up loving most things.

[75] And I end up keeping it.

[76] Like, you know, what am I going to do with it?

[77] I just move it from one place to the next, it seems like.

[78] Is it at all related?

[79] And I don't want to project on behalf of my wife.

[80] But I notice when she starts really organizing some area of the house that, from my point of view, seems organized, I know, okay, this is a little bit of her depression.

[81] This is how she kind of satiates her depression.

[82] I have things I do.

[83] And that's the one that, to me, that's a little bit of a red flag.

[84] I think you have put your finger on a very important issue because speaking for myself and every woman friend I have, cleaning, organizing.

[85] and literally trying to make your life make sense by moving things physically around is exactly what I do.

[86] And my husband has said that I will be on my deathbed and I will say to him, Bill, just move that chair like six inches to the left, right?

[87] I don't know.

[88] I think it must be DNA or something.

[89] Yeah, and as the guy, you're kind of put in this position where all this work's been done.

[90] And of course, you deserve some praise for it.

[91] And so my wife will go like, look at the dog drawer.

[92] And now I have to fake it because I really can't delineate what's a really well -organized, you know, dog drawer or not.

[93] Right, right.

[94] But being the astute listener that I know you are, you will have heard that tone in her voice.

[95] And the correct answer is, that's amazing.

[96] It's just amazing.

[97] Wow.

[98] That is streamlined.

[99] How did you find time to do that?

[100] Now, I think she sounds a lot kinder than I am because what I do is take Bill stuff and dump it into boxes.

[101] Oh, no, that happens.

[102] That happens.

[103] Oh, okay, good.

[104] Just checking here.

[105] And then I kind of move it into his line of sight and sometimes into his path.

[106] And I'll say, okay, now you've got to sort all this out.

[107] I don't think I could say I have a prize possession.

[108] But if I had to say one that I have, it would be that I've journaled obsessively for the last 16 years.

[109] And I, at one point, was out next to the garage where there's an extra fridge and I was digging through some things.

[110] And I found all my journals just sitting on the ground in the damp corner of the little utility room.

[111] And I thought, wow, I wouldn't have put these here, maybe.

[112] Now, that I think is precious stuff.

[113] Okay.

[114] I'm talking, like, just this morning, for example, DVDs and CDs.

[115] Oh.

[116] Uh -huh.

[117] Going back 25, 35 years.

[118] people who set us their first recording ever.

[119] Dear Bill and Hillary, hope you love it.

[120] And, you know, here we are.

[121] We still have dozens and dozens and maybe as many as hundreds of them.

[122] And not any disrespect to anybody.

[123] But we got to figure out what to do with all that, don't you think?

[124] I want to go back to the journals because the journals are precious.

[125] And let's earmark the DVDs because I'm super guilty and it's such a male stupid thing we do.

[126] Like we're obsessed.

[127] My father had laser discs.

[128] There wasn't even a way to view them anymore.

[129] but he had to keep them.

[130] I mean, if you look behind me, I've got shells of them, which I'm trying to clear off so that I can use for more, I think, productive purposes.

[131] Yeah, okay, so journals.

[132] Yeah, look, I'm hugely impressed by your journaling.

[133] And I think those should be preserved.

[134] You don't want those to get wrecked.

[135] You want to be able to reflect back on them.

[136] You may want your kids someday, far away.

[137] You may want to write something using, them to acts.

[138] I mean, Journals are real -time reflections of who you are and what you're thinking and going through at a point in your life.

[139] You should figure out how to actually keep those in good shape.

[140] Yeah.

[141] And I think also, even though it's not a person, having one outlet of total honesty in your life for me is quite helpful.

[142] When I've gotten into trouble in my life is when I'm not even being honest with that journal because I'm so afraid someone will find it.

[143] Yeah, but I mean, I think you deserve a lot of credit for Being transparent, being honest, getting yourself on track, keep going.

[144] I mean, yeah, you deserve a lot of credit.

[145] It's not easy.

[146] Okay, so I want to get something that you will not like out of the way right away.

[147] I know you won't like it, and let's get it.

[148] It's our homework.

[149] Let's get it done so we can watch Netflix and chill.

[150] I've been just binging both the documentary.

[151] I re -listened to your Stern interview.

[152] I've been listening to a lot.

[153] And I think we share this in common.

[154] You hate compliments.

[155] Is that a fair assessment?

[156] Yeah, I don't know what to do.

[157] do with them.

[158] Me too!

[159] It makes me kind of cringe.

[160] Yeah, I'm not good at it, and I have tried to get better.

[161] You know, I used to be one of those people that would always parry them, and, oh, no, no, no, well, that was not that hard or this was not that, you know, like you see.

[162] And then people said to me, you know, come on, accept the compliment.

[163] I don't know, okay.

[164] Yes.

[165] But do you think that's a female thing?

[166] Like, where we're...

[167] Well, I have it, too.

[168] I was going to relate to her.

[169] Well, you're a female.

[170] I am.

[171] Okay, that's true.

[172] you know, you're trained to downplay.

[173] Right.

[174] I think, you know, deflect.

[175] You're supposed to be deflecting away from yourself all the time.

[176] We may have, all three of us have that in common.

[177] Well, what's weird is all I want is praise.

[178] I've had a very extroverted life and I was in search of great adulation.

[179] So it's very weird that when it then comes my way, I guess what I feel like is on Christmas morning when someone's staring at you as you open their present and you're just panicked, you're not going to give the right reaction to the present.

[180] I don't know what to say to sound gracious.

[181] Well, I've had to practice, though.

[182] I really recommend it to you.

[183] Yeah, please.

[184] Just practice because if you can get, oh, thank you, or thank you so much, you're done.

[185] You don't have to say anything else.

[186] And actually, it kind of releases some of the pent -up anxiety about, is the gift going to be received well?

[187] Is your performance going to be approved of?

[188] Whatever it is, you're angsting over.

[189] So, yeah, just practice.

[190] saying, oh, thank you.

[191] Yeah, yeah.

[192] I guess then I feel arrogant.

[193] Like, I agree with you.

[194] That's what it is.

[195] I'm like, by me saying thank you, it makes me feel like I'm saying, I agree with you.

[196] I am the shit.

[197] Yeah, but I think you're spending too much time ruminating on this.

[198] That's accurate.

[199] I think of all the worries that we have in our respective lives and the country and the world, I think, you know, there may be places and moments where, yeah, you do need to kick.

[200] yourself about being arrogant but giving a gift getting a compliment i think you can let that rest okay okay so i just want to get them out of the way okay okay okay first and foremost again i was reminded you have the most arresting blue eyes they're so fucking beautiful when i was watching the hulu thing i've got a really nice television so i was getting it in 4k and they're so unbelievably beautiful you have the most beautiful eyes sparkling monica would you agree with this assessment Yes.

[201] Oh, thank you.

[202] I bet you weren't expecting a physical compliment first.

[203] That's what he, yeah, specialty.

[204] I can take no credit for that.

[205] I mean, you know, there's my deflection.

[206] You know, I'll give my parents, my ancestors credit for however that happened.

[207] Yeah, people will go like, I love parenthood.

[208] And I go, great, that's Jason Kadam's compliment.

[209] I'll tell him when I see him.

[210] He didn't make a great show.

[211] Well, the worst is when they say, like, your mom is so pretty.

[212] Then it's like, okay.

[213] You don't even know how to say thank you to that because it's really not about you.

[214] Oh, that's me in public.

[215] I love your wife.

[216] Yes, I do too.

[217] We have that in common.

[218] Yeah.

[219] Look, I have had to deal with that, obviously.

[220] And so, yeah, that's another area where, you know, just say, oh, thanks.

[221] I mean, it makes no sense.

[222] They're complimenting your mother or your wife.

[223] But, oh, yeah.

[224] Oh, thanks.

[225] Yeah, you just take it and go.

[226] I think we're actually helping a lot of people who are going to listen to this because, you know, just, oh, thanks.

[227] I think you'd be shocked because I think a lot of us desire this approval.

[228] And then when we get it, you don't feel worthy.

[229] I mean, part of it is that sense of unworthiness.

[230] And then there's the imposter syndrome.

[231] Oh, yeah, right.

[232] If you really knew who I was, you would not be saying these nice things about me. And somebody asked me, so what do you want on your gravestone?

[233] I said, well, I don't know.

[234] maybe she wasn't as bad or as good as some people thought, you know, because you want to try to get to a sense of reality and authenticity.

[235] And it's hard when you're in the public eye because people are going to say positive and negative things about you that, frankly, have very little to do with you.

[236] Oh, isn't that the case?

[237] Yeah.

[238] Right.

[239] Yeah.

[240] So much of the blowback you've received over the years, I think was exactly that.

[241] Like some level of guilt of I think I could have maybe done more and I didn't.

[242] And now this person's telling me I chose wrong.

[243] You know, it's very personal.

[244] And I think all of this gets amplified by social media.

[245] I mean, as bad as this is because we're human beings and it's just part of who we are, I think it's really bad because of how it's everywhere.

[246] Yes.

[247] Did you watch the social dilemma?

[248] Yes.

[249] Oh, wasn't that terrifying?

[250] Yeah, yeah.

[251] You should have Tristan on your podcast.

[252] He was an incredible guest.

[253] Have you had him on?

[254] We just had him on.

[255] Oh, I'm going to listen.

[256] Okay, another thing I just want to say.

[257] I have two daughters, and it gives me so much gratitude to sit and watch with a five -year -old and a seven -year -old your documentary.

[258] And as a roadmap of where women have started, and of course, even worse than before your time, but their own grandmother, who's roughly your age, my mom, to where we're at today, I can't think of a better example to provide the whole context.

[259] of, you know, going to law school being one of 20 female law students, you know, getting heckled at the LSAT, stuff that people just wouldn't really imagine was happening just five minutes ago in our history.

[260] And to show them what someone with conviction and drive and ambition and intelligence and believe in themselves can do, you couldn't have shown your daughter that documentary.

[261] No, in fact, you know, Chelsea and I wrote a book together called The Book of women.

[262] And one of the reasons that we wrote it is our life experiences are so different.

[263] You're so right, Dax.

[264] When I was a little girl, there just weren't very many women in the history books that we read in my elementary school.

[265] You know, there might be Joan of Arc or Elizabeth the first, something like that.

[266] I didn't know any woman who worked outside the home other than my teachers and the public librarians and maybe somebody who would wait on me in a store.

[267] So Chelsea had this entirely different experience, or pediatrician was a woman, the mayor of our town was a woman, you know, and we talked about that how in just that one generation, there were more possibilities.

[268] And it gave us the incentive to sort of write about the women that we each had admired, both in history and in the present.

[269] And it was a fascinating exercise for us because, you know, there were women that I really admired that were not on Chelsea's wavelength at all.

[270] all.

[271] And same with her, right?

[272] And so I think the Hulu documentary, and they did an amazing job because they found footage that I'd never seen, didn't even know existed, to tell the story because they wanted it to do exactly, as you just said, to be the arc of modern women's history, not just my story, but my story as it connected to and maybe reflected what other women and girls had gone through.

[273] And so I think today, Kamala Harris's story, would be very different.

[274] And yet, she and I are good friends.

[275] We've talked about how she often was subjected to some of the same kind of sexist and misogynistic comments.

[276] But nevertheless, I mean, it keeps moving forward.

[277] And that's what we have to be really behind is this forward movement of progress.

[278] It's like our own lives.

[279] I mean, you know, you fall down, you get back up, you try to do better, you keep going.

[280] It's, you know, that's society, too.

[281] Yeah.

[282] Just to wrap up the compliments, I just love you to death.

[283] I don't think a more qualified human being has ever, ever run for a president.

[284] You're just incredible, and I love you.

[285] So that aside, have you happened to listen to the Malcolm Gladwell podcast episode called The Token?

[286] It's really about Sammy Davis Jr., but then it explores in a much broader way the weight of being the token.

[287] And I think that's something that people might not understand about your life, you know, your career.

[288] is that you were so often the token.

[289] You were almost a novelty at a law firm or in court.

[290] People come watch you, right?

[291] You know, I tell the story about trying a lawsuit in North Arkansas.

[292] This was a lot of years ago.

[293] And, you know, it was a small courthouse.

[294] The trial was, I think, about, I don't know, three days long.

[295] And on the second day, I come back from the lunch break.

[296] and there are a bunch of guys in camouflage who had been out in the deer woods and they'd come in to buy supplies.

[297] So said to the bailiff, who are they?

[298] And he told me, I said, why are they here?

[299] He said, they just wanted to come see the lady lawyer.

[300] And that's who I was, the lady lawyer.

[301] By the way, shocked, there wasn't a TV show in the 80s called Lady Lawyer.

[302] Yeah, let's do it.

[303] A science fiction show.

[304] So I had a question about, you just said you wrote a book with Chelsea and I have met her once.

[305] We both, I think we co -hosted a marriage equality rally back in the day in New York and I found her to be very lovely and you have to be crazy proud of her.

[306] What I'm curious about is I selfishly and egomanically looked forward to raising children because I wanted to give them the tools that I felt like I had so desperately needed as a kid.

[307] So very narcissistic.

[308] And I wondered, you had to have had similar feelings.

[309] I'm going to have this girl and now I'm going to be able to give her the support and the education that I would have just thrived on.

[310] And I wonder what fruit did that bear and then what mistakes were implicit in that?

[311] Because I fear that I'm on the verge of making them.

[312] Well, you have two daughters, right?

[313] Yes, yes.

[314] And how old are they now?

[315] Five and seven.

[316] Yeah.

[317] First of all, I think you just described what a lot of parents feel.

[318] I mean, you want, obviously, the best, but you also, you know, want to try to be aware enough so that you don't make what you think were mistakes made with you, right?

[319] We all do it, though.

[320] There's no escaping from it.

[321] I mean, we are the products of our own parents' efforts to raise us.

[322] And I was lucky because my mother was incredibly focused on education and on supporting me to be independent and outspoken.

[323] And my dad, who was a classic man of that generation, played football at Penn State, was a chief petty officer in the Navy during World War II.

[324] A boxer?

[325] A boxer.

[326] He did not have any idea how to raise a girl.

[327] So in effect, I was given more freedom to just explore.

[328] He cared a lot about school.

[329] He cared a lot about grades.

[330] If I'd bring home good grades, he'd say, that must be an easy school.

[331] So he was of the sort of tough love mode of parenting.

[332] The combination of the two of them really worked.

[333] And I think that's another way of thinking about it.

[334] You know, the combination of you and their mom brings different experiences and aspirations for them and kind of together it all works.

[335] You know, with Chelsea, she was an adventurous little girl.

[336] I mean, when she was five years old, she announced that she wanted to go to sleepaway camp because she wanted to start having adventures.

[337] So I said, you can't go away when you're five.

[338] So for me, it was constantly trying to find the right balance, not imposing on her what I wanted her to become, but trying the best I could to enable her to become whoever she was going to be.

[339] You know, it's hard.

[340] I mean, it's the hardest job I ever had.

[341] I mean, I had a lot of hard jobs.

[342] And it's the hardest one and you get them to adulthood and you go, whew, boy.

[343] And then, you know, adulthood poses new challenges.

[344] My poor mother, when I was in the Senate, my mother lived with us during the last years of her life and I'd come home and I'd see her watching Fox News and I'd say, Mom, you know, why?

[345] She said, I have to know what they're going to say about you.

[346] I said, well, that's got to be a little bit painful.

[347] And she goes, you know, you were a good girl growing up.

[348] And I just, I just, you know, I just don't know what happened.

[349] The things they say about you are so terrible.

[350] I said, well, then maybe you should turn it off and not pay attention.

[351] So even when you have an adult child, you know, you're still kind of, oh, your heart's beating hard.

[352] So now we have these three amazing grandchildren, and I'm going through it all again, because they're three totally different personalities.

[353] And that's the other thing, this whole nature, nurture kind of conflict that people talk about.

[354] you can see their personalities.

[355] Don't you think?

[356] Oh, my goodness.

[357] Yeah, it's crazy.

[358] From the earliest weeks and months of their life, and they're different.

[359] And you're trying to give them the same parenting, but how can you give the same parenting to three different little people who respond in different ways?

[360] And so it's a constant balancing act.

[361] But that's part of the joy as well as the challenge of being a parent.

[362] And, you know, with a five and a seven -year -old girl in your house, you know, it's going to get more complicated.

[363] I hate to tell you.

[364] you that.

[365] It's going to get more complicated.

[366] I look forward to it.

[367] I actually think raising kids today in some ways is a lot harder than it was for my parents raising us.

[368] I mean, it's a classic kind of thing growing up in the suburbs of Chicago.

[369] It was like, okay, go outside, come home for dinner.

[370] They never worried about us.

[371] They never really checked up on us.

[372] We were in and out of other people's houses as well as ours.

[373] It was such a different environment.

[374] Well, yeah, I'm sure you've read this, there was a New York Times article a couple years ago, or maybe just a year ago, we've referenced it a few times that working mothers currently spend more time with their children than 50s housewives did.

[375] It's not like one thing went down.

[376] In fact, it's increased as women have entered the workforce.

[377] Now there's just basically zero time for mom.

[378] Yeah.

[379] And I think also, it's not just because of the pandemic.

[380] People spend a lot of time inside.

[381] Kids spend more time inside because of screen time than we did.

[382] And in order to get kids outside, sometimes you have to put them in the car and drive them somewhere, as opposed to the way I grew up, where just get out.

[383] And we were on our own for half the day or most of the day.

[384] Well, we're from the same latitude.

[385] So I'm from Detroit.

[386] Come on when it's dark.

[387] Well, the summertime, that's damn near 10 o 'clock at night.

[388] It is.

[389] Yeah.

[390] I mean, you are feral, and I appreciated it.

[391] We used to play the most games in our neighborhood, and we would have mock courts to try people who have violated the norms of the neighborhood.

[392] Oh, yeah.

[393] I mean, it was a little bit like Lord of the Flies, not quite as bad.

[394] Slash the Stanford Prison Experiment.

[395] A lot of things going on up.

[396] You know, speaking of Detroit, I talked to your fabulous governor yesterday.

[397] I just was so happy to talk to her.

[398] Wow, what a incredible gutsy woman.

[399] She's a gangster.

[400] So I wanted to talk just vaguely about transitions.

[401] What is the experience like going from someone who admired people like RBG, Gloria Steinem, and then finding yourself as being one of those people?

[402] What's that experience like becoming a person that you know you held in your heart?

[403] I think that's a great question.

[404] And it is a big leap.

[405] When you go from not being on the global stage to all of a sudden being there and people are checking to see, are you for real or not, you know, and you do get that sense of lack of worthiness.

[406] Gosh, you know, you look at people from afar and the heroes that I had like Amelia Earhart and, you know, you mentioned RBG who, you know, I met in the 80s and obviously Gloria Steinem.

[407] I started reading Ms. Magazine when I, you know, was a young woman.

[408] And then you get to know them.

[409] And actually, in lots of ways, it's even better because you can connect with them over shared experiences.

[410] Yeah.

[411] And I find that very fulfilling and reassuring.

[412] Well, I was going to say, and this is no way complaining about the really privileged position you find yourself in, but it is also very isolating.

[413] It can be, 100%.

[414] Because your concerns, your problems, they could probably seem trivial to someone else.

[415] You're experiencing some things that are really complicated feelings.

[416] As you say, imposter syndrome, I'd imagine there's great value and being able to connect with people and feel seen and heard and understood.

[417] But I think that's true for everybody.

[418] You don't have to be kind of well -known globally.

[419] In your own community, you've got to have a circle of people you can be as open with.

[420] I've had girlfriends literally that go back to my elementary school years.

[421] I've had people that when it all got too much, you can pick up the phone or arrange to meet and just vent.

[422] and eat a lot of pizza and feel better about life.

[423] And, you know, you've got to have that too.

[424] I mean, and it's funny now because I'm really pondering and don't fully understand what social media is doing to us.

[425] But the lines between public and private are being so blurred.

[426] I don't quite know how you create the boundaries that we all need to live.

[427] I mean, you've got to have some boundaries.

[428] You can't be totally open to every sling and arrow that comes your way or every kind of, you know, compliment that may or may not be merited.

[429] And it's so much harder now because people think they know you in a way that you go, wait a minute, I don't know.

[430] I mean, the first experience I had about this long time ago when Bill was running for president the first time in 92, I was doing an interview, as I remember it, on a radio station in Connecticut.

[431] And the interviewer had a list of things in front of him.

[432] And he goes, oh, I hear you.

[433] you were a champion diver.

[434] I said, no, I wasn't.

[435] And he goes, well, it says right here, you were a champion diver.

[436] I said, but I wasn't.

[437] And I found myself having an argument about my own life with this stranger who was insisting because he'd been told I was something that I knew I wasn't.

[438] You know, you kind of stop and think, well, maybe it's just easier to say, okay, I was a champion diver.

[439] I mean, but, you know, it's such a strange phenomenon when you're, you know, in the public eye and when people are putting all sorts of assumptions about you and on you and you go, projecting a lot.

[440] Yeah.

[441] Yeah.

[442] Well, yeah, no, that's not me. I mean, that's not who I am.

[443] That's not what I said or that's not what I did.

[444] Well, I agree.

[445] I have a similar concern, but my thought is like it has to go in one of either two directions.

[446] Either the line between public and private life is getting so blurry that you no longer are left with a safe space to air thoughts that probably you don't want the world to hear, to be challenged, to have different opinions.

[447] You know, you need a playground to go, ah, I don't know if this is the greatest idea, but I feel this way.

[448] I'd love to be corrected.

[449] You know, that's a dicey experience to have in public.

[450] Yeah, it is.

[451] And I think we all need safe places.

[452] We all need a zone of privacy.

[453] And, you know, even the best manipulators of social media, and some are amazingly good at it, you know that they're in on the joke.

[454] It's like, okay, all right, here, we're going to show you this much, but, you know, we're still editing.

[455] We still have control over it.

[456] But a lot of people who are sucked in to the social media vortex, they don't have either that control or that understanding that they're giving up so much by not letting there be this zone of privacy where, yeah, you can make mistakes, you can say things that, you know, maybe you'll regret later and it'll take somebody who you trust to say, hey, you know, that wasn't the right way to do it.

[457] How do you grow if you have no safe space in which to try that?

[458] So when I'm feeling optimistic, I feel like, okay, well, maybe this is all going to lead to, it's impossible now to hide our skeletons.

[459] And what we're going to all realize is, oh, we're all equally fucked up.

[460] This is a really hard experience to get through flawlessly.

[461] And maybe people will feel less pressured to be perfect.

[462] Or when I'm feeling pessimistic, it's that there is no safe space.

[463] so I'm going to hide even more, and I'm going to feel even more shame because it appears everyone else has figured this out.

[464] But I think the data seems to show right now that particularly for young people, it's going in the negative direction that, you know, the constant comparisons, the falling short of what you see on Instagram or wherever else you're looking does inject a sense of unworthiness, even shame, which, as you know, is the worst of all feelings because it just can take you in a downward spiral.

[465] And when I talk to people who run colleges and universities, again, this is pre -pandemic, you know, they say the increase in anxiety and depression among young people is pretty dramatic.

[466] And when I ask them, why do you think that is?

[467] I mean, life is always hard, as you rightly say, and we all have our screw -ups.

[468] They say, social media is playing a role in that to some extent.

[469] We don't really understand it.

[470] And then when the American Academy of Pediatrics says keep your kids off screens completely till the age of two and really limit it.

[471] And then finally, I was talking with some cognitive scientists some months back.

[472] And they said that, you know, they've been trying to gauge what screen time does to the developing brain.

[473] And they were making, you know, some rounds in Silicon Valley among charities there to raise money to look at this.

[474] And one of the people they met with big tycoon in Silicon Valley said, Well, yeah, you probably are on to something because, you know, we put into our contracts with our caregivers that they can't allow kids to watch screens.

[475] Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.

[476] It's like, okay, you know, you're in the center of all this incredible change in human psychology and even human evolution.

[477] And you know that it's dangerous.

[478] Oh, and they'll be the first to admit they don't have any control over it as well, which is really, you know, if the people who designed it are powerless over it, that should be very telling.

[479] Yeah, yeah, the algorithms are running everything, it turns out.

[480] Yes.

[481] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[482] We've all been there.

[483] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[484] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[485] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[486] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[487] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[488] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[489] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[490] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[491] What's up, guys?

[492] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[493] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[494] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[495] And I don't mean just friends.

[496] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[497] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[498] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[499] Okay, you excelled in your own high school.

[500] Then you go to Wellesley and you are the speaker at the graduation.

[501] Now, if your community was 3 billion people on Facebook, well, you wouldn't have been elected to speak at your graduation.

[502] That's probably true.

[503] Because someone in 2 .5 billion people would have been better than you at it.

[504] Or at least on a better job marketing, you know.

[505] Yeah, absolutely.

[506] And so these little incremental pools that were in where we gained.

[507] confidence and we learn that we take a little baby step towards all these things.

[508] And then, of course, you then learn how to become Hillary Clinton and be the Secretary of State and go talk to Putin and have some level of confidence.

[509] But man, yeah, if you had just started out competing with two and a half billion people, you've been like, well, I'm kind of average.

[510] I think I might at best be average.

[511] Yeah.

[512] Well, you know, I think that's especially true in women's lives because, you know, too often we are programmed to compare ourselves against impossible standards.

[513] You just feel constantly like you're not good enough, you're not this enough, you're not that enough.

[514] And you're right about the confidence factor.

[515] I mean, it's in small groups, starting frankly in your family, but then increasing sized groups in school and community, where you discover who you are, where you create your identity, where you get the confidence to pursue your own interests and dreams.

[516] And if you short -circuit that because you get thrown into this gigantic pool of, as you say, like two and a half, three billion people, well, there's no way that you're ever going to be competitive.

[517] It's just a fact of, you know, the numbers, the mathematically, it's impossible.

[518] So we're not doing our kids any service by sort of tearing down all the boundaries and thrusting them into a social media world where they make friends with people they never meet.

[519] They try to develop relationships with people that they have no idea who they really are because they, too, are trying to put their best, you know, face forward.

[520] It's a complicated path to navigate right now.

[521] I just have a quick question.

[522] Going back to transitions and you, moving into the public stage, I've wondered this since the 2016 election.

[523] Like, you know, I'm wearing my nasty woman shirt right now.

[524] Kristen, me and Dax's sister Carly, on election day, we went out.

[525] We went to the polls.

[526] We brought donuts.

[527] Like, we were so excited.

[528] And for you, like, you're carrying around the weight of me, of the girl down the street.

[529] You're walking around with all of this pressure on your shoulders of all these little girls like, I'm dying for this to happen.

[530] I need this to happen.

[531] That's so much.

[532] Like, it's no unfair of all of us.

[533] I mean, we can't help it, but it's unfair of us to be projecting all of that energy onto you.

[534] But, you know, Monica, I felt that.

[535] I mean, you have described it to a T. I really felt the weight of history, the weight of expectation.

[536] I mean, the, you know, the thousands of, you know, girls and young women who showed up at my events and they'd be wearing the T -shirts.

[537] And it just had such a sense of possibility.

[538] And I think you've rightly pointed out one of the most difficult transitions I ever had to go through was unexpectedly, you know, not becoming president.

[539] because I thought I was.

[540] I thought I was on the path to being the president.

[541] I had a very clear idea of what I wanted to do to deal with a lot of the serious problems we face.

[542] And for at least two years, you know, very intensely at first and then beginning to taper off, people would come up and throw their arms around me and sob on my shoulder.

[543] They would be with tears streaming down their face.

[544] there were a lot of young women who came up and apologized to me because they said they didn't vote because they didn't think I needed them to vote.

[545] I'm so happy that voting has gone up in the last two elections, particularly this one.

[546] So I felt the burden on an almost daily basis that I feel like I let you down.

[547] I'm so sorry.

[548] I don't exactly understand what happened and we've learned more.

[549] And then I said, look, I got to write a book about this because I can't figure it out.

[550] And none of the quick takes on it made sense to me. And so I did.

[551] I wrote a book called What happened because it was a perfect storm of all sorts of forces at work.

[552] And thankfully, people learned, you know, about the Russians interfering.

[553] They learned about all of the disinformation on Facebook and everything that influenced voters.

[554] They had a chance to digest that, and it didn't have as big an impact, certainly in 2018 or in this 2020 election.

[555] But it was hard.

[556] That was a really tough transition.

[557] You know, I love going for long walks.

[558] It's my mental health exercise.

[559] Me too.

[560] I like to go in the woods.

[561] You're nasty women love your long walks.

[562] Yeah, we're nasty women.

[563] We love these long walks.

[564] And you know, where I live in New York, there's lots of places to walk that are, you know, pretty nice.

[565] And so, oh my gosh, like three days after the election, I was back in the woods.

[566] I wasn't sure I was ever coming out.

[567] And I walked on a trail past a young woman, who had a baby in her backpack and had a dog on a leash.

[568] And I kind of nodded at her.

[569] And she took like a step past, you know, just started to cry, said, you know, I've got to talk to you.

[570] I've got to see you.

[571] We took a picture.

[572] She posted it.

[573] And then, you know, all the walking in the woods memes started up.

[574] But incredibly emotional for me, too, because up until that point, I'd basically been just in my house, you know, feeling incredibly distressed.

[575] So getting out there and beginning to go back to stores, go to the theater, go out to restaurants with my friends, I began interacting with people who kind of oddly, I think we're also having a transition, if you will, transition from their hopes and expectations.

[576] And the level of grief, I mean, if you talk about the stages of grief that so many people went through, you know, I think it's one of the reasons why people are exhaling right now.

[577] You know, this election was closer than it should have been.

[578] it's hard to believe that millions more people than had voted for him the first time saw what he'd been doing and saying and wanted more of it.

[579] But nevertheless, the election repudiated him and elected an honorable and decent man and an incredible woman to be our leaders.

[580] So I think people are kind of almost saying, I want to get back to not having to worry about politics.

[581] I want to get back to normalcy.

[582] I want to, you know, sleep through the night.

[583] I don't want to be scrolling on Twitter, seeing what terrible thing is going to happen or be said.

[584] So a lot of transition is happening right now.

[585] That was a great question.

[586] I had a similar one, but it was on such a minuscule scale.

[587] I have made movies where I wrote them.

[588] I directed them.

[589] I was in them.

[590] Then I traveled the country.

[591] I got in front of every camera that would have me. And I said, please go see my movie.

[592] And then the movie failed.

[593] And then when I walked around L .A., I thought everyone had just read the box office totals and I was a complete failure.

[594] and even that is not very analogous because there is distance between me and the product.

[595] Like, you might not have liked the product, but you're saying, pick me. Yeah, exactly.

[596] I am the product.

[597] That's right.

[598] I am the product.

[599] I spent at least four months going, I give up.

[600] I tried my hardest, and this is when you quit.

[601] And I wonder how you decided I'm not going to quit and I'm going to focus on some other things.

[602] I'm going to have some different goals.

[603] and what was that process like?

[604] So I think that could be hugely helpful for everyone who's experiencing failure as we all do.

[605] Yeah, and a failure in public.

[606] So it's like what you were saying.

[607] You do feel like, oh, my gosh, you know, it's right out there.

[608] You can't escape it.

[609] I honestly think that for me, because I care deeply about what happens in the country and the world, and I worry a lot about everything, I thought, okay, I'm going to try to figure out what happened, and then I'm going to try to figure out what to do, that I can do about it.

[610] So I started an organization called Onward Together and funded a lot of young people's groups who were registering voters, who were recruiting people to run for office, who were training them, who were raising money for them, and we're dealing with problems of, you know, kids getting separated at the border and all the stuff that just keeps me up at night and puts a big, you know, hole in my stomach.

[611] Can I add it's been very successful that Onward Together, that 70 % of the folks you guys got behind won their election and then it's been really helpful?

[612] Well, and it's something I have been really devoted to.

[613] And, you know, then I, in addition to writing that book and writing the book with my daughter, I turned my attention to this 2020 campaign and did everything I could to support the Democrats running.

[614] I talked to practically all of them because remember when they started, they were about 22 or three of them and tried to provide help and advice and whatever they needed.

[615] and then, you know, got behind Joe Biden when it became clear he would be our nominee.

[616] And I've been very involved in his campaign as well as others.

[617] And then I started a podcast.

[618] I mean, that's where we all go, right, Dex?

[619] I mean, we all go to start a podcast.

[620] All roads lead back to podcasts.

[621] Well, you know, part of it, I don't know about you, but I loved listening to the radio when I was growing up.

[622] Oh, yeah.

[623] Garrison Keeler.

[624] Did you listen to, like, Prairie Home Companion?

[625] Oh, but I mean, I even predate that.

[626] I mean, I, you know, there used to be soap operas on the radio when I was a little girl, as well as interview shows.

[627] And of course, you know, WLS was our station in Chicago, listened to, you know, rock and roll and music till late at night.

[628] So radio for me has always been a terrific medium because I always feel like I can, you know, do something else while I'm listening.

[629] I'm not totally occupied.

[630] Anyway, they came to me with the idea of doing a podcast and I'm usually the one being asked the questions.

[631] and I thought, hey, this could be fun.

[632] So I started you and me both, and I've had the best time.

[633] I've really enjoyed it.

[634] I wanted to ask you, first of all, before we go to you and me both, I just want for people who would want to support Onward Together, where should they go?

[635] Onwardtogether .org.

[636] Onwardtogether .org.

[637] Okay.

[638] Yeah, yeah.

[639] Now, you and me both.

[640] So here was my own misguided ego.

[641] I thought, oh, I've done a trillion interviews.

[642] I'm going to be great at this.

[643] Uh -huh.

[644] And what I found very quickly is like, oh.

[645] I'm supposed to talk less in these, and that was hard for me. Yeah, I know.

[646] And also, when you are the interviewee instead of the interviewer, you have to have different skills.

[647] I mean, because part of what, and I see you prepared, you obviously thought about this as you do about all of your podcast.

[648] Not as much as you.

[649] I'll be honest.

[650] You and Bill Gates have gotten the platinum research package.

[651] I'll say that.

[652] But you've been amazingly successful.

[653] I mean, you have a great manner on air.

[654] I mean, I listen to your podcast.

[655] And I, I, I mean, you got, thank you.

[656] Yeah, no, but you've got the curiosity that a good interviewer needs to bring.

[657] But you also try to provide the opportunity for whoever your guest is to, you know, talk about something and to be kind of highlighted on that, on your platform.

[658] And so when I started, I did all the research and I would, you know, read the books.

[659] the people had written and tried to figure out what to ask them.

[660] And I found it a little bit, so I was a little self -conscious because when you want somebody to keep talking and you want to give them that opportunity, you know, there's only so many things you can say.

[661] And it's like, okay, fine, right.

[662] Oh, yeah.

[663] And then what happened?

[664] So I've had to figure out, you know, how to be a little less stilted in the conversation that you have on a podcast.

[665] I'm working on it.

[666] that's one of the reasons I like listening to both of you.

[667] I also think it's really a good technique for you two to be together.

[668] I like, you know, the way Monica will interject herself and ask a question.

[669] That's the Howard Stern model, which is so unbelievably successful.

[670] Yes, yes, yes.

[671] I mean, as you know, Howard Stern kept saying, if only you would be on my show, you would win.

[672] I mean, he may have been right.

[673] I don't know.

[674] Because when I finally did his, I was on for three and a half hours.

[675] I mean, imagine that, three and a half hours.

[676] And so when I would walk down the street, people would shout at me. I heard John Howard.

[677] I just listened to you on Howard Stern.

[678] The place I go to get my hair cut, I come out of it one day, like a week after I'd done the interview and it had played.

[679] And a guy throws open the door of his office and he goes, I heard John Howard Stern.

[680] You were great.

[681] I called my mom.

[682] I called my dad.

[683] I called my brother.

[684] I was like, wow.

[685] Okay, Howard.

[686] You are probably right.

[687] No, yeah.

[688] There is no experience like doing his show.

[689] And what he's great at and what happened when you were on is everyone is likable.

[690] There's something about him that makes everyone very human.

[691] And I think his audience more than any other audience you could have gone to, they're trust in him and their willingness to hear you out and give you your day in court.

[692] I don't think a good percentage of those folks were Hillary supporters.

[693] You think not?

[694] Yeah.

[695] Well, that's what I kind of always give him credit for.

[696] I think he's actually done more for gay rights than most people.

[697] Of all the activists, I think he's probably done more because his base doesn't think that way.

[698] And he has their ear, and that's incredibly important.

[699] And yes, people loved you.

[700] I hope you heard the feedback.

[701] Like, he just took call after call.

[702] These guys like, I fucking thought I hated her.

[703] And she's fucking awesome.

[704] Like, they were doing one 80s.

[705] They didn't know what to do with themselves.

[706] One of the things that I admire about him, which he's very open about, as you know, is how much he's worked on himself.

[707] You know, he went into therapy.

[708] He has really dug deep.

[709] And I think it shows in the quality of his interviews now, don't you?

[710] Look, my wife at the beginning of finding out I liked him was like, doesn't that guy throw bologna at women's asses?

[711] And I was like, yes, there was a period where he did that.

[712] But what I'll applaud him for is he did not succumb to fear that if I evolve in real time and I change, that I will lose my audience.

[713] Or rather he at least didn't value that.

[714] He at least didn't value that fear as much as he valued evolving in real time.

[715] And I think that's really admirable of him.

[716] I do too.

[717] We're almost out of time.

[718] I just got the text.

[719] Oh, you got to wrap it up.

[720] I have one more question that is, I think, important.

[721] Okay, I do two.

[722] Okay, so we'll do six or seven more.

[723] We have an hour left.

[724] If you gave Howard three hours, you give us five.

[725] Okay, go ahead, Monica.

[726] My question is about Kamala and how when you saw her kind of get all this, you know, like you said, it was an exhale for so many women and men this time around to see a woman up there.

[727] And I just wonder, like, it brings up all these feelings up.

[728] There's only one spot.

[729] There's only one space for a woman.

[730] And like, she got it.

[731] And you didn't get it.

[732] And did it bring up any of those feelings?

[733] No, no. It really didn't.

[734] No, because, you know, it's a funny thing to say, but it kind of goes way back to the beginning.

[735] I always believe that we're in a relay race, and if you care about human rights, human dignity, women's progress, whatever the positive side of the historic ledger is that you are focused on, you've got to applaud the progress that we make.

[736] Now, I would not be happy if any woman, you know, were in that position.

[737] How about Octumom?

[738] Well, you know, she's not somebody that I have followed politically, but there are some of these, you know, women in politics who you just feel like they want to slam the door on whoever comes next.

[739] But to have Kamala in this role, her sister, Maya, was one of my senior leaders on my 2016 campaign.

[740] So I'm very personally attached to her and invested in her success.

[741] And it made me feel really, really good.

[742] It made me feel like, okay, another barrier down.

[743] And let's keep opening up the pipeline.

[744] Let's keep bringing more people, and not just women, but, you know, people of color, you know, LGBTQ.

[745] Let's make sure that everybody truly does have a chance because we say that that's what we're standing for, but do we really mean it?

[746] Do we make it possible?

[747] Obviously not in every way that we should.

[748] So I was thrilled.

[749] And, you know, after a race was called for Joe and Kamala, I mean, she called me right away and, you know, it just lit me up.

[750] I just was so thrilled.

[751] And I can't wait to see her on the world stage because it's such a repudiation of everything that Donald Trump and his enablers were trying to do to our country.

[752] And we have a lot of work to do to repair the damage, but she'll be a great asset there.

[753] Okay, here's my last question.

[754] And it is now the only political one I'm going to ask you.

[755] And I'm asking you because this is a debate I will have probably for the next three months at dinner parties.

[756] And people will maybe accuse me of not challenging this idea with someone of your stature, knowledge, and everything.

[757] So I'm opening myself up to being wrong right now.

[758] So let me just say that.

[759] When I look at the numbers, the total numbers, yes, he won the popular vote, it is very scary to me that it was by that small of a margin.

[760] And when I try to make sense of it, the thing that I keep coming back to that I feel is happening is a very delicate thing to lay out.

[761] But here's what I think.

[762] I think our side on the left, progressives or Democrats, whatever you want to say, I think we have a lot of really ethical and noble objectives and I think those are dismantling systemic racism.

[763] I think it's securing rights for LGBT communities.

[764] But I also think that takes up most of the airtime on our side.

[765] And I think a huge, huge percentage of this country is poor or in poverty and white and straight.

[766] And if I were them, if I'm the woman in the trailer with two babies who are hungry and dirty diapers and I hear the left saying she's experiencing white privilege, I can imagine where those people don't think we have a plan for them.

[767] And I'm scared about that, our messaging.

[768] I want us to be more clear that we have a plan for everyone to join prosperity and everyone to be middle class and that it's not just these marginalized groups that we're putting all of our attention to you.

[769] That's a dangerous thing to say, but I'm curious what you think of that.

[770] You know, I don't believe it has to be either or, but I think you're right to ask the question because I recognize that it's really difficult to break through on economic plans, on creating new jobs, on revitalizing a lot, the country that, you know, feels left out and left behind.

[771] That's kind of boring, and the press doesn't, you know, really get it.

[772] Just as an aside in 2016, analysts did a word search of everything that I said in the entire campaign.

[773] And the most common thing I talked about was jobs.

[774] But I mean, you could take a lie detector test and never know that.

[775] I rolled out plans on everything from, you know, how we were going to enhance jobs and renewable energy to how we were going to invest in poor communities and all the rest of it.

[776] But because we live in this time where controversy, the algorithms favor it, drive it, and you think that's what is the only reality, we've got to figure out, and we're going to have to talk to people like Tristan Harris.

[777] How do we get the broader message across?

[778] You know, Joe Biden, a lot of the people who worked for me were in his campaign, either in the beginning or after he got the nomination.

[779] They talked to me about his policies.

[780] He has, fabulous policies.

[781] I mean, if we could snap our fingers and you could pass his jobs and economic policy and his climate policy and his health care policy, it would lift everybody up.

[782] Yeah.

[783] I mean, it goes without saying we both agree that although the right is saying that they care about that group I just detailed, they don't really have any plan to help lift them up.

[784] But I don't think that's what's relevant.

[785] They are total prisoners to very powerful special interests.

[786] And so we've got to make a clearer, sharper case, just as you said.

[787] And, you know, it's tough.

[788] I'm not giving up on it because I think it's absolutely essential.

[789] It's just really difficult when you're running against someone who sucks up all the oxygen, saying outrageous things, insulting people.

[790] You remember, in 2016, I'd be giving a speech about how we were going to, you know, break broadband to poor communities in rural areas that will get the, connected to the internet and get their kids and get themselves, you know, better economic opportunities, they wouldn't cover that.

[791] They would cover an empty podium because it was like they were unable to turn away from the car wreck.

[792] They had to see what he was going to do next.

[793] In an attention economy, they're incentivized to get attention.

[794] It's just that simple.

[795] Exactly.

[796] Get the clicks.

[797] Get the eyeballs.

[798] Get the likes, get whatever.

[799] And so I've had this conversation with some of the people around Biden.

[800] We've got to think differently about this because somehow he's got to break through the noise because Trump's not going away.

[801] He may, you know, have to finally leave the White House, but he's going to turn around the next day and say he's running for president again.

[802] And then he's going to be out there.

[803] He's going to be having rallies because it's like lifeblood to him.

[804] And he's going to be probably owning a, you know, some kind of an media outlet where he's going to be peddling his stuff every day.

[805] Trump steaks.

[806] They're good steaks.

[807] Don't bash Trump steaks.

[808] They're delicious.

[809] Good stakes.

[810] Yeah.

[811] all the rest of it that goes with it.

[812] But so I think your question is a really key one, is a really smart one.

[813] We're going to need a lot more help.

[814] Traditional politics, and Joe is a traditional politician, nothing wrong with that.

[815] He came up that way.

[816] He cares deeply about people, honest to God, he will give you the shirt off his back.

[817] He's the kind of human being that you want to be your leader.

[818] We've got to figure out how to translate that and everything he wants to do into a narrative that captures those eyeballs.

[819] And boy, I would well, you mean, you guys are the experts in this.

[820] I would welcome your thoughts.

[821] I know they would.

[822] Because we want that, you know, that woman in the trailer.

[823] And we want that, you know, farmer on the tractor.

[824] And we want that kid, you know, who has to drop out of school because his dad, you know, died in an industrial accident.

[825] And he's now the sole support.

[826] We want them to believe in the future.

[827] Yes.

[828] And we want them to believe that there is going to be opportunities that they will be given to make the most out of their own lives.

[829] Yeah, well, we're bad, bad marketers.

[830] I mean, white privilege, I absolutely agree with.

[831] Once it is detailed to me and I recognize what it means, but that took me five conversations to recognize my, oh, I would have been in jail as a drug addict if I were black.

[832] I would have been shot by a, like, I get it now.

[833] But on the surface, oh, I have privilege.

[834] It doesn't feel like it.

[835] So that's one for me that the message could be better.

[836] the country is being so divided.

[837] There's so much anger and rancor and deep, profound misunderstandings and differences.

[838] And there are ways to talk.

[839] But unfortunately, our media, particularly our social media, does not really support those ways of having, you said it took you five conversations.

[840] That's pretty impressive that, you know, you engaged in it, you listened, people responded.

[841] How do you do that on a national level.

[842] How do you do it in 140 characters?

[843] 140 characters where the algorithm is saying, you know, no, no, you want to go down this rabbit hole.

[844] You want to follow this conspiracy theory.

[845] We should check in on this going forward because I love the fact that you are focused on it and your podcast reaches so many people, invite people to kind of be part of the solution.

[846] How do we deal with it?

[847] How do we help ourselves?

[848] Because it comes down to not just the politicians, how do we help ourselves have a, you know, a more productive, more positive future?

[849] Well, we interviewed Yuval Harari recently, right leading up to the election day, and he said, if you're open to an outsider's perspective, I can tell you what it looks like from here in Israel.

[850] It looks to us like your number one enemy, America's number one enemy is each other.

[851] It's not Russia anymore.

[852] It's not China.

[853] It's not communism.

[854] It's not socialism.

[855] It's each other.

[856] And he said, that's a very dangerous position.

[857] And I couldn't agree more.

[858] And we got to be the first to say, here's a tiny little thing I've decided.

[859] Tell me if you think this is good or bad.

[860] I'm done saying I'm a Democrat.

[861] I vote often Democratic.

[862] I vote in liberal ways.

[863] I vote progressive.

[864] But I am not this thing.

[865] That cannot be an identity.

[866] I am a father.

[867] I'm a son.

[868] I'm a friend.

[869] I'm a many things before I am this label that we invented 180 years ago, you know?

[870] Well, but part of what you're saying is.

[871] is really important, which is we've now reached a point in our country where your partisan identity is more important to how you see the world and the decisions you make than anything else you just said.

[872] It's more important than making sure that there are good public colleges for your kid when he or she grows up and wants to go to school.

[873] It's more important than making sure everybody has health care because, you know, in the middle of a pandemic, that makes sense.

[874] So it's more important and then getting a preventable disease by wearing a mask like that.

[875] 100%.

[876] You would be in the outgroup of your party if you don't take that position.

[877] But that's what tribalism does.

[878] People are being forced to pick sides.

[879] You know, what group are you a part of?

[880] And I think you're right to say, we need to break that down.

[881] And everybody has a complex identity.

[882] Everybody leads a multifaceted life.

[883] And so let's be, you know, recognizing that in each other.

[884] and let's be, you know, trying to find some common ground, even if it just starts off as a postage stamp, that we can then build on so that we can find ways that, you know, try to lift us up instead of tear us further apart.

[885] Well, and you're just canceling your future.

[886] If I look at your own life, you were a lawyer.

[887] Okay, well, if you were only a lawyer, then you weren't going to be first lady.

[888] And if you weren't going to be a senator.

[889] And if you were only a senator, you wouldn't have been Secretary of State.

[890] Your life's over if your identities don't evolve and are flexible and continue.

[891] 100%.

[892] I love you.

[893] I love you.

[894] You're just going to have to take it.

[895] You're just going to have to take it on the chin.

[896] I love you.

[897] Your eyes are dazzling and electric and crystal blue.

[898] We'd love to talk to you again.

[899] We'd steal more time from you at another point.

[900] I would love that.

[901] From the bottom of my heart, I have listened to you and me both.

[902] And you're fantastic at it.

[903] I'm not surprised.

[904] But again, a lot of people give this a shot.

[905] It's not the biggest success rate.

[906] And you're crushing.

[907] I think you're wonderful at it.

[908] So I wish you a ton of luck with it.

[909] And I hope you have as much fun.

[910] I do doing it.

[911] Thank you.

[912] I do.

[913] Thank you.

[914] Thank you.

[915] Okay.

[916] When you're done with your house, come to ours and help organize ours.

[917] I will be on the road because this is what keeps me saying.

[918] Take care, everybody.

[919] Bye.

[920] Stay safe and healthy.

[921] Bye -bye.

[922] You too.

[923] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[924] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[925] action you're on go you're on candid camera oh you're on candid camera oh you're on candid camera say hi to your family they were just behind scene they were watching you say hi to a show because he was laughing hysterically when the shopping cart tipped over he laughed and the manager tried to throw you out of the store laughed and laughed and laughed can I let the listeners know what you're wearing sure i thought i was getting fucking invaded when you showed up it was like there was a paratrooper outside you're in all uh army green yep and you got combat boots on and i said did you intentionally look like a soldier today and you said you did not it didn't even occur to you oh i regret my shoes now why because you're right it's that combo that makes it very soldier -esque yeah but that's cute though for a little woman to wear soldier gear that's true that's a cool look it's also pangaya it's like if i wear a dress you're like oh look that big guy in a dress that's cute yeah i would think that was cute yeah i wasn't supposed to buy any more pangaya oh geez you did you bought one just this one oh could i mean look if you're i was done with it but then it popped up on my instagram oh is that what i was going to say if you really have the goal of not buying anymore then you must not let yourself go look at them because that would that's just that's like me hanging out in a bar trying to get sober no no i i'm i mean i should unfollow them i guess but yeah duh but there so many things have i mean it's been months and i've seen lots of stuff pop up and i'm like nah i don't even have the inclination because i just have so many but you don't have the room is what you don't have you don't have any more room then the green sure well it's our fake favorite color exactly it's not Bill Gates' favorite color.

[926] No, his is blue, but that was so reassuring because our real favorite color.

[927] Yours.

[928] Mine is blue.

[929] Mine is purple.

[930] But I say green so that people will think I'm a genius.

[931] I know.

[932] Yeah.

[933] What is it?

[934] I want to tell the world about my Bader -Mindhoff frequency illusion, but I can't do it safely.

[935] I'll just say this.

[936] I was pulling out of my driveway today.

[937] Uh -huh.

[938] And I realized my street, which I obviously know the name.

[939] I've just never put two and two together.

[940] My street is a word that's connected to the crown.

[941] It's such a long road.

[942] And you don't even live on it.

[943] Then what are you worried?

[944] Okay.

[945] Do what makes you feel comfy.

[946] Okay.

[947] The name is connected to the crown.

[948] Yes, it's very royal.

[949] It's a beta -mind -hop frequency illusion.

[950] There he is.

[951] Hello.

[952] Hello.

[953] Special delivery from my beautiful baby son.

[954] Aaron and I are watching Monica untank.

[955] What is it?

[956] Undoing.

[957] Undoing.

[958] Have you started that?

[959] No, but people are into it.

[960] Well, we're watching it.

[961] And it's a little off brand for us.

[962] Is this scary?

[963] Isn't it supposed to be scary?

[964] It revolves on a murder.

[965] And who done it.

[966] But it's pretty melodramatic.

[967] Okay.

[968] They have such good cliffhangers at the end of every episode.

[969] I think midway through each episode We're like, I don't know if this shows for us And then they get us with the cliffhanger Ending every single time I'm not gonna watch it Oh, you're not?

[970] No, because...

[971] We love Hugh Grant.

[972] Do you love Hugh Grant?

[973] Yeah, but I'll be by myself I'll be too scared.

[974] I don't think you'll be scared.

[975] Yeah.

[976] Right, Aaron?

[977] No, she won't be scared.

[978] Are you sure?

[979] Positive.

[980] Aaron thinks I'm much braver than I am.

[981] Well, he knows how brave you are, which is very brave.

[982] Come watch it again with you Okay, yeah I prefer that Aaron said he's gonna watch it with me Oh my God I'll be so jealous If you guys are watching TV without me Well why don't you come too Why didn't you guys just wait for me to watch?

[983] Because we were in the sand dunes And we wanted to watch a show We were heavily criticized In the sand dunes as I told you The guys that were camping across the road from us Thought we were Not masculine because we watched TV At night instead of drinking beer and listening into heavy metal.

[984] Yeah.

[985] And they tried to embarrass us or amasculate us because we watched TV.

[986] So then we had to take our TV watching inside the motorhome.

[987] Oh my God, it worked.

[988] No, not really.

[989] They tear pressure?

[990] We just, for some reason, we're more comfortable inside.

[991] So we watched.

[992] So we wanted to start a new show together.

[993] Did you watch it on your packs?

[994] No. Listen to this thing I did.

[995] I brought my Apple TV and then I used my packs as a hotspot and then hooked that up to the TV.

[996] Oh, I did watch my packs You promised the packs You were going to watch him in?

[997] Absolutely.

[998] I watched my packs every night in bed.

[999] Okay.

[1000] I was watching Westworld by myself.

[1001] Okay.

[1002] And I barely...

[1003] I saw you on your eye pony all day.

[1004] No, I didn't watch anything on my pony.

[1005] Your poor path.

[1006] Yeah, you were using FaceTime and stuff.

[1007] Oh.

[1008] Yeah, you were.

[1009] Oh, yeah.

[1010] And the packs saw.

[1011] Okay.

[1012] Well, I just did therapy on my packs.

[1013] So he knows the most intimate stuff.

[1014] So the Pax gets all your problems, but the iPony is like the one that's fun and you FaceTime.

[1015] Call friends, have a party, pony party.

[1016] Whatever.

[1017] I don't even know where the story went.

[1018] But I do want to add one thing about the Dunes, which was we were already being accused of being weak and cowardly for watching TV at night.

[1019] And then we pulled up from a ride, and I was listening to Michael Jackson quite loud in the razor so you can hear it.

[1020] And then the guys who were emasculating us immediately came over and the guy goes, you listen to Michael Jackson when you're in the dunes?

[1021] And I said, yeah.

[1022] And he said, I listened to speed metal.

[1023] And I was like, okay.

[1024] I listened to human nature by Michael Jackson.

[1025] Yikes.

[1026] All of this is, could be considered problematic.

[1027] This is a good story.

[1028] It has a silver lining.

[1029] You know what that silver lining is?

[1030] Aaron and I, 15 years ago, this would have been a real challenge to our manhood, and we would have fought those guys at some point in this trip.

[1031] But we felt so secure that we didn't mind at all.

[1032] They kept trying to point out what weaklings we were, and it didn't bother me. I'm glad you're not a teenager anymore.

[1033] Yeah, me too.

[1034] I spent too many years being a teenager.

[1035] Good job.

[1036] Speaking of bravery.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] Guess who's the most brave?

[1039] You?

[1040] Hillary!

[1041] Oh, my God, Hillary Clintock.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] Hillary Radman Clintock.

[1044] I loved her.

[1045] I thought she was playful like Bill Gates was.

[1046] I know.

[1047] She was so playful.

[1048] And I love that she was cleaning, organizing her house from the basement up to the attic.

[1049] Yeah, that was impressive.

[1050] That was, yes, yes.

[1051] I totally like her.

[1052] And I really think it will never happen.

[1053] How could it?

[1054] That we would be great dinner companions if we all.

[1055] I want to.

[1056] Yeah, if we all started having dinner together and we could talk about fun ideas.

[1057] What dinner would you make her?

[1058] My spaghetti.

[1059] Yeah, that's a good one.

[1060] Would you want to make it like courses?

[1061] No, no. You know when I make spaghetti, I don't even offer a salad.

[1062] I offer spaghetti and garlic bread.

[1063] I know.

[1064] I've put out a salad and no one touches it because you're not going to fuck with.

[1065] There's no space.

[1066] There's no space.

[1067] And you're not going to use up that valuable real estate with some lettuce.

[1068] No, I agree.

[1069] Yeah, because you don't even eat salad when I make the spaghetti.

[1070] No. I hate salad when you make spaghetti.

[1071] Right, but we love salad.

[1072] Yeah, otherwise I like salad.

[1073] We love it.

[1074] But I hate it on spaghetti night.

[1075] That's right.

[1076] And she would too.

[1077] Okay.

[1078] What would you make?

[1079] A soup?

[1080] I made such a good broccoli and cheese soup on Friday.

[1081] And you didn't bring me, Annie?

[1082] I thought about bringing it to the sand dunes, but I got nervous about heating.

[1083] God bless you.

[1084] Aaron, the baby boy, just brought his dad a coffee.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] And that is so nice.

[1087] It is so nice.

[1088] But can I tell you, it's just full circle because I woke airing up this morning with a hot coffee and a big plate of scramble egg whites.

[1089] And you didn't bring me any.

[1090] Well, you weren't sleeping at the house.

[1091] Exactly.

[1092] You weren't at my house when I made broccoli cheese soup.

[1093] You're all right.

[1094] You're right.

[1095] Ding, ding, ding.

[1096] You won.

[1097] Back to our number one, Hillary.

[1098] Yeah.

[1099] I would probably make courses for her.

[1100] I would make a soup course.

[1101] Would you start with nuts?

[1102] Oh, no. Oh, you're supposed to end with nuts, sorry, soup to nuts.

[1103] Oh, is that what it means?

[1104] Yeah, did you not know what that's what soup to nuts means?

[1105] You say that all the time and I had no idea what it meant.

[1106] It's one of my favorite sayings, yeah.

[1107] A traditional meal with many courses starts with soup and ends with nuts, so you're getting the whole shebang.

[1108] You're a fancier than you think.

[1109] You're a royal.

[1110] I'm very fancy.

[1111] I'm an aristocrat.

[1112] I'm an aristocrat.

[1113] When Kristen, Molly, Amy, and I were in Austria, we went to this one really fancy restaurant.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] Yeah.

[1116] I want you to add the one funny part about like figuring out how to get reservations and how many hoops you guys jumped through to secure these reservations.

[1117] And this is the place right you got to and you were the only people.

[1118] No, no, no. Oh.

[1119] I thought that was the place.

[1120] There was one place that it was a big deal to like get into and then we were the only people there and the food was mediocre at best.

[1121] But no, we went to this other place that has like a Michelin Star is really fancy and delicious.

[1122] there they eat the cheese last oh okay and we obviously don't do that so we were like stupid americans we love you Aaron we asked if we could have our cheese first oh you did oh my god so rude it was rude they could they did not like that we were asking that and they were like are you sure like yeah it's really arrogant that's something I would do but also we would you don't know better If they've put together this entire meal with like nine stops.

[1123] I know.

[1124] We just couldn't stomach the idea of eating that cheese last.

[1125] We wanted it first.

[1126] But I bet if you would have done it as prescribed, it would have been better.

[1127] I know.

[1128] Some of the cheeses were.

[1129] Oh, my God.

[1130] Tastes of like gasoline.

[1131] Oh, bad.

[1132] Oh, horrible.

[1133] Oh.

[1134] Like, they had this enormous cheese cart.

[1135] They bring it out.

[1136] There's like levels of cheese.

[1137] So many kinds.

[1138] And then we asked for some recommendations.

[1139] And then we picked some, but we didn't know really what we were doing.

[1140] Were they speaking German or Austrian or whatever?

[1141] They had accents, but they were speaking English.

[1142] Oh, okay.

[1143] Motor oil cheese.

[1144] Wow, I would have loved it.

[1145] I refused to eat because I can't be peer pressured.

[1146] Right.

[1147] Do you think this led to your seizure a few days later?

[1148] It's possible.

[1149] Don't know.

[1150] Oh, we haven't said the name, so we can't be sued.

[1151] Yeah, yeah, you haven't said the name.

[1152] Although there's probably only one restaurant there with a Michelin Star.

[1153] But anyways, continue it.

[1154] Don't look into it.

[1155] Yes, they gave me a seizure.

[1156] You should sue.

[1157] Okay, back to Hillary.

[1158] I'm so grateful that she chatted with us and gave us her time.

[1159] Yeah, and again, you know, this is just an ego thing, but she actually knew us, which is so helpful.

[1160] When you're intimidated to talk to someone you've looked up to for a long time and they actually know you a little, it's very helpful.

[1161] It takes the pressure off.

[1162] It is what it is.

[1163] She, like, took the time to figure that out so that she could.

[1164] This is partly...

[1165] Well, hold on back up now.

[1166] Do you think she took the time to learn or she already knew?

[1167] I was thinking she already knew.

[1168] Either way is kind.

[1169] Don't dissect it.

[1170] It is kind if she just was like, who am I talking to?

[1171] I better dedicate an hour to learning about who they are.

[1172] That's kind.

[1173] But I was allowing myself to believe that for a year or two now she's known of us and likes us.

[1174] I think I don't want to dive deep into that.

[1175] I don't know.

[1176] Either way is great news.

[1177] Yeah, it is.

[1178] It's a big win.

[1179] Take the win, they say.

[1180] Yeah, take the W. You know what I hate the most?

[1181] No, that's a bad way of phrasing it.

[1182] Do I hate the most about her?

[1183] Is that what you want to say?

[1184] No, no, no. This idea that she was so unlikable.

[1185] She's so likable.

[1186] She's a lovely person.

[1187] I think she's a lovely person.

[1188] I'm just trying to really think about what you just said.

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] Think about it.

[1191] it doesn't not make sense to me it doesn't make sense to you it i understand that and this is of course steeped in misogyny be that as it made that that's what it is so many people have not experienced someone as ambitious as um confident as worldly as all the many things she is very successful lawyer secretary of state a senator uh first lady there are lots of men who have not had a woman in their life like that and they're afraid of that yeah oh i know okay so you you understand i understand the reason is atrocious to me yeah i agree i just i was just clarifying whether or not you understood like i thought your first statement was that you don't understand how they didn't pick her i understand it well i understand and i it bums me out i understand that those people are misogynistic i am not giving anyone going to pass by saying like, like we sometimes do with Trump, where it's like, well, they feel left out or, you know, which is true.

[1192] And I actually do see that point of view a little more.

[1193] I have a little more compassion for that.

[1194] I do not have compassion for men who are threatened by confident women.

[1195] Well, sorry.

[1196] So I totally disagree with those feelings.

[1197] I think they're abhorrent.

[1198] and I also am sympathetic to it because those guys grew up in the exact same world that she grew up in, which she talks about, which is when she looks around, there was no women on the wall over elementary school.

[1199] There were no female leaders.

[1200] So those men also grew up in that world where they're not used to that either.

[1201] They didn't see that.

[1202] This is a new thing.

[1203] New things are scary.

[1204] It's not where we're going, thank God.

[1205] But I also think everyone here is a victim of this culture.

[1206] It's not like some person chose to be misogynistic that we got downloaded misogyny.

[1207] Yes, you don't choose to be misogynistic, but you can choose to not be.

[1208] And you should.

[1209] Yes, I agree with both those statements.

[1210] So the people who are can make better choices.

[1211] The problem I think that us progressives have is in our messaging, it sounds like we're blaming individuals.

[1212] And you can blame individuals.

[1213] That's fine.

[1214] But what is much more productive and much more realistic is that you, must blame systems.

[1215] Systems are flawed currently and the systems themselves are misogynistic and the systems and the culture is I on the left am not blaming individuals.

[1216] I think we're all products of this place we grew up in and I think we would benefit from changing the systems and the culture that yield these results.

[1217] These are the results.

[1218] It's just like that person we had on.

[1219] Yeah.

[1220] Upstream, right?

[1221] I agree with all of this.

[1222] I'm just saying this scapegoat of likeability is not true.

[1223] She's a very likable person.

[1224] We just chat with her for an hour and she's lovely and we wanted to talk to her longer.

[1225] I totally agree with that.

[1226] That's just not a thing.

[1227] I think they, I think, well, I do think those people genuinely we thought, she's just not likable.

[1228] I think they thought that they didn't think, wow, this is not how my mother acted and that's the woman I trusted.

[1229] And she doesn't seem nurturing.

[1230] And, you know, I don't think they dug deep.

[1231] I think to them what they thought they were experiencing was she's not likable.

[1232] It's not true.

[1233] She's likable.

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] And she was on Howard Stern and she was as likable as everyone.

[1236] I want to say that.

[1237] She is likable.

[1238] And I don't like that every other headline was she's not likable.

[1239] She's unlike.

[1240] But it's like that's so horrible to have to hear about yourself when it's not true.

[1241] It's not true.

[1242] I'm sure she's smart enough to know that it's not true.

[1243] But I just want to make that clear.

[1244] She is totally super likable.

[1245] And she has to walk a tightrope that no one else has to walk.

[1246] Either she's being weak because she doesn't turn around and tell Trump to stop fucking standing behind her.

[1247] And then that's its own thing that everyone, that scares everyone.

[1248] Or she's too emotional.

[1249] And we don't trust women to be in the White House because they're emotional and they'll hit the fucking new button.

[1250] But if she's not emotional, she's some sort of unlikeful robot.

[1251] Yes.

[1252] Yes.

[1253] She's in a lose -lose situation as most women are.

[1254] Mm -hmm.

[1255] Guys, watch the doc if you haven't.

[1256] Multiple men, I know who've watched it, had a huge response.

[1257] That's one of the first, like, quote, female -centric docs that I feel I've noticed that from.

[1258] Like, our friend Eric said he cried.

[1259] Yeah.

[1260] It's a heartbreaking story.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] She was the most competent from the class that she met Bill in.

[1264] Like, as a student, she spoke at their graduation on law teams.

[1265] she was the best she's one of the best secretary seats we ever had and all people cared about what her haircut was whether she took his last name or didn't the fact that she didn't have a child while they were in the governor's mansion you know all these things that have nothing to do with the job she was asked to execute and it's just completely unfair and hypocritical and heartbreaking it is a very sad sad documentary but her resilience i know it almost makes her you know that much more likable and admirable because it is heartbreaking and it never broke her it still hasn't broken her i know she had like the most humiliating experience that human being can have please pick me the whole country said no and she keeps being productive you know what i'm saying yeah but the country said yes but that she didn't get that position i would retire well oh that was one thing i kind of wanted to know is she decided to put her resources into the future into helping the problems that she faced.

[1266] And I thought that was so awesome.

[1267] And that did remind me of Stacey Abrams in Georgia, who did the same thing because she ran for governor, lost.

[1268] And then people were like, are you going to run for president?

[1269] Are you going to run for president?

[1270] She was like, no, I'm going to put all my efforts into registering voters.

[1271] Yeah, and voter suppression.

[1272] And she did that.

[1273] She registered over 800 ,000 voters.

[1274] And like, I just - And Georgia was decided by what, 6 ,000 voters Like, yeah, it's so, it is so admirable to see someone be like, I'm going to use this for good.

[1275] I'm going to pivot.

[1276] I'm going to do something else.

[1277] This is what Tristan said as well.

[1278] Like he's in Google hoping to move it three degrees or two degrees.

[1279] And at some point he goes, you know what?

[1280] I actually might be more effective on the outside trying to change this.

[1281] And he has been.

[1282] It also just shows their commitment to the country.

[1283] Like it's not that they want to be president.

[1284] Right.

[1285] Right.

[1286] Right.

[1287] want to be the person.

[1288] It's that they really do want to help and progress.

[1289] So that's where they're best suited to do so.

[1290] Anyway, I love women.

[1291] Yeah, but women.

[1292] Today I love women.

[1293] Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

[1294] It's fine.

[1295] You love women.

[1296] Oh, God.

[1297] So much, so, so much.

[1298] More than men.

[1299] I would never pick to be around all men.

[1300] Well, I do pick to be around all men.

[1301] What I like to do is spend like 80 % of my time with women.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] And then 20 % with just men.

[1304] Yeah.

[1305] So I can get it all out of my system.

[1306] Sure.

[1307] Talk about boobs and butts and butt holes.

[1308] You're talking about boobs and butts and butt holes with me. That's right.

[1309] Okay.

[1310] So you mentioned Malcolm Goddwell, the token.

[1311] I have said this before, but I'm happy to keep saying it.

[1312] That's not what it's called.

[1313] The episode is called the hug heard around the world.

[1314] The hug heard around the world.

[1315] Oh my God.

[1316] How about that dinner?

[1317] Hillary, Malcolm, Dr. Eric Topal.

[1318] Adam Grant and Charlie with his shirt off and you and I oh wow dingle dingle spray spray spray oh let me think who else I'd want there I know I don't want him to feel left out but there's only it's in a train car and there however I just listed oh bill of course we've got a bill there she's allowed to bring a plus one okay I actually don't think Bill would be a good dinner guest because he's so smart that I think everyone would go like, well, we should all just shut up and he should just talk out loud for an hour.

[1319] Oh, Bill Gates.

[1320] I thought you met Bill Clinton.

[1321] I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Bill Gates.

[1322] He actually might not be a great dinner guest because I think I would feel stupid taking up any of the minutes that he could be educating us all.

[1323] Interesting.

[1324] You know what I'm saying?

[1325] Do you agree a little bit?

[1326] I do.

[1327] I see where you're coming from, but.

[1328] Like, no one should talk with him if he's there.

[1329] Well, he's not.

[1330] He likes to.

[1331] He should mansplain to all of us.

[1332] No, he likes to.

[1333] He likes to.

[1334] He likes to talk about movies.

[1335] He'd want to know our opinion about.

[1336] Spy games.

[1337] He loves it.

[1338] It's so clever.

[1339] All right.

[1340] I think that's all for Hillary.

[1341] Okay.

[1342] Boy, do we like her?

[1343] Man, I really wanted to keep talking to her.

[1344] Oh, and you know what?

[1345] She kind of invited us to give tips, and I'm gonna.

[1346] On what?

[1347] Her podcast?

[1348] No, like just in general how to reach the public.

[1349] Oh, she did?

[1350] Yes, well, that's what I heard.

[1351] That's great.

[1352] I got to listen.

[1353] See if I can find that place.

[1354] And she said you're going to come back.

[1355] I know.

[1356] I hope Republicans could listen to it.

[1357] Do you hope so?

[1358] I hope so.

[1359] If they can't, then we have a problem.

[1360] Like I get...

[1361] Well, would you listen to Tucker Carlson on a...

[1362] We can't make that the same.

[1363] That's what I'm saying.

[1364] Like, one person is...

[1365] Well, you have to, you have to be generous and make a steel man thing.

[1366] You have to pick the person, like, the person that we hate the most.

[1367] you have to match it.

[1368] So they hated her, unfortunately.

[1369] It breaks my heart.

[1370] I don't like it.

[1371] But I got to steal me on this.

[1372] Although I got to say, if Stern had Tucker Carlson on, I'd listen in one second.

[1373] And I can't stand that guy.

[1374] I don't know what to say.

[1375] Okay.

[1376] Well, I lost all of our momentum.

[1377] We had great momentum.

[1378] We were like, yes.

[1379] And she was great.

[1380] Love you.

[1381] And then I ruined it.

[1382] I was about to land the plane, and then I pulled up on the yoke as hard as I could.

[1383] Because I thought I saw a bird on the runway.

[1384] You don't know how to land a plane.

[1385] Oh.

[1386] Remember?

[1387] I've landed some 260 planes.

[1388] What?

[1389] I know how to land the plane.

[1390] No, I mean, you don't know how to land a plane.

[1391] Well, first of all, I do know how to land a plane.

[1392] And I know how to land this plane.

[1393] This plane is different than a plane.

[1394] This doctor knows how to land this plane.

[1395] Bye.

[1396] Bye.

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