The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett XX
[0] Every day I wake up the first thing I think, am I going to be able to talk today?
[1] There's been a red card, but for who, Chris DeMara?
[2] I don't know, Jeff, has it?
[3] One of Britain's best -love football pundits.
[4] It's been a cracker, Jeff.
[5] You're a beauty!
[6] I'm unbelievable, Jeff, what a cracking game!
[7] There's a young black kid thinking that one day I'll play for Middlesford and for Leeds.
[8] and dream achieved.
[9] The story of your mother I found really difficult to read.
[10] It was difficult in those days.
[11] Men were physical towards women.
[12] I made the mistake of telling my dad on his deathbed that it was wrong.
[13] I should have kept it to myself.
[14] Why?
[15] For someone that has never experienced apraxia.
[16] What does it feel like for you in your head?
[17] I feel a fraud now in terms of broadcasting.
[18] You feel a fraud?
[19] Yeah.
[20] Hmm.
[21] Hmm.
[22] I was going to quit everything.
[23] Without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett, and this is the dire of a CEO.
[24] I hope nobody's listening.
[25] But if you are, then please keep this to yourself.
[26] Chris, what do I need to know about your earliest years to understand the man that you are today?
[27] Well, I don't know, really.
[28] My childhood is slightly clouded, so I wouldn't change anything because you can't change the course of history, but life was difficult growing up, very difficult.
[29] So, yeah.
[30] I wouldn't change anything, to be honest.
[31] When you say clouded?
[32] Well, good days, bad days.
[33] We had terrible racism at the time when I was growing up.
[34] I was born in 57.
[35] So in the 60s, it wasn't good.
[36] We were the only black family on our estate.
[37] So anything happened.
[38] The police would come knocking on our door, take our dad away, and you'd have to get cleared and come home.
[39] And the whole process would start again.
[40] It's that black family there who were causing all the problems.
[41] And occasionally, not all the time, my dad would like the better.
[42] So he would, on a Thursday, when he got paid, they got paid in cash.
[43] brown envelopes would occasionally go to the bookies and so we'd end up you know struggling for food so it's clouded in those ways um i'm looking through those clouds now but you know uh thinking it didn't do me any arm but it happened you know your mother and your father's relationship uh mom was the most loyal wife you could ever have.
[44] Absolutely.
[45] Even if her and dad and arguments or fights or whatever, she would vehemently stick up for him, you know, when anybody called him, you know, the N -word was vibrant back in those days.
[46] And, you know, I hear these stories now that it's impossible to understand racism if you're not black.
[47] It's not true.
[48] It's totally not true.
[49] My mom got called at Endlover throughout the 60s when I was aware of it.
[50] And she came through it.
[51] So she knew exactly what racism was about.
[52] Your father was from Sierra Leone And your mother was from Middlesbrough Yeah People don't always think about that They don't think about how the In that context Because my mother's from Nigeria And my dad's from Coventry So I'm You know And what my Dad went through as well Because his wife was black Is often not spoken about But often The partner Carries the weight and the insults all the same.
[53] I was reading through your story about how your mother would also, on Thursday, she would walk up to 10 miles to go and get your dad's pay packet through fear that he might spend it.
[54] Yeah, she had to.
[55] So it became a ritual in the end.
[56] She would do it all the time.
[57] In the end, when we were older as kids, She didn't have to carry us to the workplace, which was 10 miles away, a round journey.
[58] And so she, they ended up, she would walk to meet Dad and they would go off into town together, you know, and that became the norm.
[59] Did your dad ever show the impact or the consequences of the way he was being treated like an outside?
[60] in a country where he, people were telling him he didn't belong?
[61] To us as kids.
[62] Did you ever see the impact of him emotionally?
[63] Did it manifest itself in drinking?
[64] Was there ever a sign that it was impacting him?
[65] He told us often enough.
[66] He'd been involved in fights back then, fist fights, you know.
[67] That was the norm.
[68] You know, he had to stand up and be counted.
[69] but he was always the one arrested in those fighting situations.
[70] But he had this thing and he drove it into me and my brother, don't ever react.
[71] You know, I might be reacting, but whatever you do, don't react, you know.
[72] Take it on the chin and ride through it.
[73] You'll get through it that way.
[74] It's been harder for me And I'm doing this for you So you'll benefit And money You know The other thing that I read that I found I found really difficult to read was the story of your Your mother When your dad's gambling Problems Were very difficult Your mother would And you didn't have money Your mother would go around to other houses in the street And knock on the doors and ask for bread or anything or money.
[75] That's how it had to be.
[76] You know, if you've got Tuesday and Wednesday to come on a Monday and you haven't got food and milk until your dad gets paid on Thursday, she'd go and borrow money or milk or bread from the neighbours.
[77] She had to, she got turned away more often than not, but she persevered.
[78] She had to, she had to, look after her kids.
[79] How did you feel amongst that time?
[80] So what age are you at this point?
[81] Five, six, seven, eight?
[82] Well, yeah, it wasn't all the time, you know, it was occasional, so yeah, I would say from eight -year -old I became aware of it more.
[83] I know it's eight because I had to light a coal fire at eight years of age, can you imagine, you know, I can imagine asking my boys to get wood and paper and matches and then light the paper.
[84] And then once the wood gets going, put the call on top at eight years of age, yeah, spooky, you know.
[85] You were asked to do that to heat the home?
[86] Yeah.
[87] We didn't have central heating.
[88] You had a fire, coal fire.
[89] That was all, yeah.
[90] You had an oven in the back of the house, in the kitchen.
[91] So you'd put the gas on to heat the kitchen when it was really cold.
[92] But the main source of heat and the hot water was the fire.
[93] Was there a lot of love in your home?
[94] Yeah, I would say, intimately.
[95] Yeah, yeah.
[96] Yeah, you know, when I look back now, I wouldn't change anything, even though there are aspects that I'd like to change.
[97] Aspects?
[98] Yeah, one or two things.
[99] You know, the thing I don't want to do is destroy the person who my dad is, for my grandkids but it was difficult in those days you know men were physical towards women so yeah yeah difficult I sat here not so long ago with Alex Scott the football presenter broadcaster yeah I work with Alex at Sky yeah her book comes out in 10 days time in the book I was reading about how she's never spoken about it before publicly but she would come home and watch her father beating up her mother constantly and the mark that left on her as a young child having to witness that kind of violence in the home and it's not really talked about enough and it's funny the reason why I bring that up is because she's also grappling with the same fear of tarnishing her father's life yeah Yeah.
[100] But it was done.
[101] I presume my dad grew up with it.
[102] And so you thought it was okay for him to do it.
[103] But like I say, you know, my kids don't probably listen to this.
[104] And, you know, I don't want to say too much on it.
[105] Is there a mixture of emotions around it?
[106] Because that's what I observed in Alex as well was there's this like you look at someone in your life, whether it's a parent.
[107] or someone you love and you say that behavior was wrong but at the same time i i love you it was still my father and it's you know that that balancing act of like should i hate this person should you know it's it yeah i made the mistake of telling my dad on my death on his death bit uh that it was wrong and he he he he, sort of like, wouldn't accept that he'd done what he'd done.
[108] So, you know, Mm -hmm.
[109] Why does that make you emotional?
[110] Well, I should have kept it to myself.
[111] Why wait?
[112] Until he's nearly dead to say something.
[113] I'm a grown man in this time.
[114] Your mother?
[115] Mm -hmm.
[116] Yes.
[117] That's a smile on your face?
[118] Yeah, of course.
[119] What role has she played in making you the man you are today?
[120] She was everything you could want in a mum.
[121] She would do anything for me. She did.
[122] My dad never saw my school report from the age of five until I left school at 16.
[123] She protected me that way.
[124] So, yeah, but not only that, you know, moms are great, and she looked after the family as good as she possibly could, and, you know, she was my world.
[125] And at that age, what was your dreams?
[126] If I'd ask you the question, what do you want to be when you grow up?
[127] Yeah, footballer.
[128] Yeah.
[129] No danger.
[130] playing for Middlesbrough initially and then when i saw leads on back to the day around there mates house borough all leads you know ambition to play for borough dream to play for leads so footballer nothing else tunnel vision yeah why football what was it doing for you oh everything yeah i used to play on the field near our house with, again, strong men from the age of 12 and I wasn't bad, you know?
[131] And they would try to kick lumps out of this little kid who was embarrassing them.
[132] So, yeah, it stood me in good stead.
[133] When I played against men at 16, I couldn't look after myself.
[134] Eventually you end up going and doing a couple of months in the army How did that happen?
[135] Navy, actually, yeah No, Dave Richardson was our coach, Middlesbrough boys, came around my house and said to my dad there's a chance not guaranteed that Chris will be taken on as an apprentice in Middlesbrough and he went no no he's not going if he stays in Middlesbrough he'll become he'll be in trouble with police he'll end up rinking and stuff like that he's not staying in Middlesbrough he's going in the Navy he made my brother join the army and he made me join the Navy literally frog march me down to the recruitment office and the sign on the dotted line can you imagine you know well I can't imagine doing that to my kids you know and in a way I think that worked against me with my kids because I never fresherized my kids to do anything at all you know let them do whatever they wanted.
[136] Whereas I probably could have been a, you know, a little bit more in terms of football or, you know.
[137] But I want, whatever they wanted to do was my wish.
[138] And I think that came from my dad.
[139] When he marched you down there and you had a love for football at that time, he marched you down there and he wanted you to join the Navy.
[140] How did you feel?
[141] Not good, I have to say.
[142] Not good.
[143] It was one of those things.
[144] I left Middlesbrough boys were in a semi -final the week before I was going in the Navy.
[145] So I knew I had this final coming up when I signed, a semi -final coming up, when I signed for the Navy.
[146] So I was thinking hopefully the semi -final and final of the middle of boys will be over.
[147] But I played the semifinal, and then I didn't get in touch with Dave Richardson to tell him I wouldn't be there for the final because I was off to Tall Point in Devon.
[148] well, Colmore is across the water from Plymouth That's where I'm from Plymouth Yeah, Plymouth, yeah So you know it's Comal and not Devon But it's a stone's throw And that's where I got my Lucky Break, yeah Your lucky break Yeah When the Navy football team Were training there So I went down one day and I asked the coach if I could train with him and the team and he went no three reasons one you're on a trial so yeah what it did you were on a trial situation whereas you got to six weeks whether you liked the navy or they like you and if not you could leave so he said come back in six weeks uh if you want and the other thing he said number two he said is you're black and these lot or kick lumps out of you so to speak so and the third thing is you're too skinny you're not going to be strong enough to play in the Navy football team.
[149] So I said, okay.
[150] Anyway, got to six weeks, was fine, was okay.
[151] And then there's a six -month period then where you can decide if you want to stay in the Navy or not.
[152] So I went back to see him, and he kept saying, no, no, no. And then one day I was running around the track while the Navy football team.
[153] And he said, look, we're two players short.
[154] I'll play on one side.
[155] You play on the other.
[156] Just stay out on the wing and you'll be fine.
[157] So I said, okay.
[158] Anyway, I scored two goals from the wing and got drafted straight into the team straight away.
[159] and the rest is history.
[160] We played Portsmouth Reserves and Navy side.
[161] I scored another two goals against them.
[162] They asked how old I was and they bought me out for the magnificent sum of £200.
[163] And my dad, I phone my dad and I told him what was happening.
[164] And he wasn't happy.
[165] So I spoke to the Navy and said, look, would you do me a favour?
[166] Would you give me a letter saying, if it don't work out as a footballer, I can go back in the Navy and they said, yeah, fine.
[167] So I got that letter, sent it to Dad, and it sort of like made it, you know, a bit more settled.
[168] And then it happens your career at Portsmouth.
[169] A lot of people don't, a lot of people will never appreciate, especially in this, the modern era, even me, even me as a guy that has a black mother and a white father, what racism was like back in the 50s and 60s.
[170] You know, the first time I experienced racism was maybe 1990, eight no it would have been later it would have about 2000 roughly about when I was maybe eight or nine or ten but when I was reading through what you experienced at that in that time almost constantly yeah I just it's it makes it almost makes my experience feel like it was nothing and I mean that like I remember like once or twice or three times you know over the course of my whole childhood people being overtly racist but when was the first time someone was racist to you uh your first memory I know exactly what it all.
[171] I'll never forget it.
[172] I was eight years old, once again.
[173] That was the time where I could light the fire and go to the shops to get cigarettes.
[174] So you went with a note for the shopkeeper.
[175] So it was 10 woodbines for my mom and 20 capstan full strength for my dad.
[176] So I went to the shop.
[177] I gave the note to the shopkeeper, and he's getting in.
[178] This woman came in the shop.
[179] Anyway, she asked for a pint of milk or loaf of bread.
[180] I'm not sure of those details.
[181] And he said, I'm serving this young man here.
[182] She said, Islot should go back to where they came from.
[183] And I thought, I live five doors away from you, you know.
[184] I'm not, you know, from somewhere else.
[185] And he said, no, look, he stood his ground, the shopkeeper, and served me. And I went out with ringing in our ears, oh, them blacks and so -and -so shouldn't be here.
[186] It says it all that you can remember that day with such detail.
[187] I can, yeah.
[188] That's something I don't think people realise is the first time someone called me in the end at school i remember everything about that day i can't remember many other days but for some reason that was a it's a very traumatic experience and the first sort of signs that you're different and welcome um and that would go on to continue throughout your childhood your football career i read i read about the story when you were playing against millwall i believe it was and someone had thrown a banana on the pitch at you yeah no wall was uh Horrific, but not just for me as a black person, it was for any footballer that went there, you know, basically, but even harder for me, I can always remember, once again, if you ask me about my career and there's, you know, lots I forget, but the first time I took a throw in there, the ball went out and they kept the wall initially.
[189] It wouldn't give me it.
[190] and then eventually it got threw on to the pitch.
[191] And the fans are virtually there and you're taking a throwing from there.
[192] So I'm sort of like taking this throwing and all of a sudden spit is on the back of my head.
[193] The back of my...
[194] I never took a throwing ever there again.
[195] That's when I was taking it.
[196] Yeah, that lesson was truly learnt.
[197] And the other story which I found, it just sounded like something from a thousand years ago was when you went to the pub after a game with your team and the pub owner made a comment, a racist comment to you.
[198] Yeah, yeah, that was in Weatherby.
[199] I played for Portsmouth at Sunland in 19.
[200] 76 I think Sunnland needed to win to get promotion to the what is the Premier League now the old first division we needed a win to stay up in the old second division what is the championship now anyway Sunnland won that day always remember that game for two reasons not just the Weatherby incident.
[201] I drank champagne for the first time.
[202] Sondland sent a case of champagne into the dressing room because they got promoted that day.
[203] So we get on the coach.
[204] Virtually every team that played Sunnland on Newcastle would stop at Weatherby for fishing chips.
[205] So we stop So we all part in the pub Most of the players And the barman says We don't serve his kind In here And the last we're all going And I went no no no it's fine To be honest I was underage Anyway I was 17 But that didn't matter Back then I'd been going in the pubs since I was 14, you know.
[206] So I went, no, no, it's fine.
[207] Anyway, Mickey Mellow's one of my teammates said, I'll bring you a pint out.
[208] But that was the first time that my teammates realized, you know, do you get that often and stuff like that?
[209] And I said, yeah, occasionally, you know, but part of life, you know, you get on with it.
[210] it's one thing to shrug it off and I feel like in that situation there's a time in place to address some of these things or to confront them your father had taught you to kind of not react as you say but as you look back on that period of your life how did that racial abuse shape and change you as a man it made you wary of other people Obviously, you know, not happy, but I wouldn't say, oh, God, it's traumatized me or something like that.
[211] And then the black lives come out and people start telling their stories of racism and the way they've been treated.
[212] You think, oh, why can't I tell my story now?
[213] And I have them.
[214] Has that helped you telling your story, do you think?
[215] To be honest, I wouldn't say it's helped me or not help me. I think since I've had this, well, I've got two conditions, an underactive thyroid and apraxia, the underactive the thyroid plays with your emotions.
[216] So I get a lot more emotional now, whereas stuff I wouldn't even bat an eyelid in the past because of this little butterfly thyroid in my neck it now makes me more emotional when did you discover the underactive thyroid uh well it's funny you know it's really funny um it's i did going through lockdown initially the first lockdown in March uh when the weather was great and everyone, you know, quite, you know, I think they were gutted about the lockdown, but the fact you were at home and the sun was shining, things were slightly different.
[217] I did loads and loads of shows from home, you know, celeb juice and Steph's back lunch, ITV, Lorraine and stuff like that, Sky Sports, from the, you know, barn.
[218] at home you know so that was fine so uh all of a sudden i began to not feel well um too well but i always shrugged it off i'd take you know tablets and be fine the next day and all that sort of stuff but it wasn't going away and uh i thought what's going on but i ignored it ignored it which is the worst thing you can possibly do.
[219] So I would get away with it at home by hardly not being the person I was, not talking as much.
[220] When I'm broadcasting for Sky, I'm trying to keep minimalistic because some of the words are coming out slurred and stuff like that.
[221] So eventually I've got to go and see.
[222] someone because I literally went a whole year, if not 20 months before I actually got diagnosed with underactive thyroid.
[223] So it was all my prayers answered at once, you know, you've got an underactive thyroid, take level thyroid.
[224] Once you find your level of level thyroxin, you'll be fine.
[225] Great.
[226] Doctors great sorting out.
[227] So eventually you take 25 grams or whatever it is of level thyroxin.
[228] Eventually when you find your level, you're fine.
[229] So I get to 175 and my thyroid is stabilised.
[230] but my voice condition is still exactly the same so what's going on so my doctor then says go for a brain scan so i go for a MRI scan anyway go and see a brain specialist he looks at the x -rays the MRI scan fine not appropriate nothing wrong with your brain it's got to be something else that's going on So I go back to my GP and tell him what's going on.
[231] He's got the report from the brain scan.
[232] So he said he won't give up my GP.
[233] He says it's not obviously your thyroid.
[234] There's something else going on.
[235] Would you go and see this Dr. Lily in Leeds?
[236] He's a specialist.
[237] So I'll go and see Dr. Lily in Leeds and before I've only said hello to him and before I can even chat to him he says you've got a prexia of speech right how do you know I can tell straight away the difficulty between the brain and your mouth being able to speak you know it was probably slower than it is now at that time.
[238] So he said, look, you know, I wanted you to go and have a DAT scan, which is, which rules out Parkinson's or stroke and all that sort of stuff.
[239] I did, went back to see him with the result for the results, I should say, and he went, the good news is you haven't got Parkinson's or anything like, the bad news is you know we can't find anything else wrong with you so you know the apraxia you know will probably get worse and and you know that went on for quite a while I went to see a therapist and he kept saying to me look you need to tell people You know, you can't continue on TV and people are saying, is he drunk and what's the matter with him as he had a stroke?
[240] You need to come out and say something.
[241] I said, I can't.
[242] I can't.
[243] I'd rather quit than actually say something.
[244] Anyway, eventually I spoke to my mate, Ben Shepard, told him what was going on so he said look come on GMB we'll chat about it and let the world know what's going on how are things for your family during this period my boys had been saying to my wife there's something wrong with dad for a while and she saw like would broach it with me but I'd be quite snappy which I'm not anyway you know and say no I'm fine I'm fine don't worry about it I'm fine and I kept thinking like I said once I got the thyroid problem the level of tyrox I'll take it away and then it's still with me and yeah, it's harder for people close to it, I think, you know, because my two boys are saying, oh, yeah, I'm fine, I've just had a bad day, you know, don't worry, I'll be fine, but they know, you know, you can't pull them all over their eyes for too long.
[245] For someone that has never experienced what it's like to have a practice, what does it feel like for you in your head uh it feels like someone is taking over my voice books so the voice that used to come out would come out at 300 mile now you know you've seen me on the results and uh soccer saturday you know motor mouth talking uh not even waiting for a breath just keep going and going.
[246] Now when I hear myself or see myself on TV, it's someone else.
[247] It's strange.
[248] It's really strange.
[249] Some days, you know, their message from the brain to the mouth is really slow, yeah, makes it difficult.
[250] Or some days the words come out different that what you're trying to say, and that's even weirder.
[251] and so that's been hard to accept and still hard to accept I have to say you know I was going to quit everything you know literally every single bit of TV at the end of last season leave Sky quit BBC, quit ITV quit Channel 4 and 5 and all those companies BBC, I think it was the right time to leave Sky.
[252] I'd had a great innings, but BBC ITV, Channel 1, Channel 5, said, no, no, you're coming, it doesn't matter.
[253] You know, I said, well, it's the quality of the program.
[254] No, it doesn't matter.
[255] You're fine, we want you to do this.
[256] And would you believe I'm now, W .D .D. busy than what I was before.
[257] That period of uncertainty, you get the diagnosis, the specialist says to you it's only going to get worse.
[258] Your career is at that point in speaking.
[259] It's in presenting, broadcasting.
[260] Yeah.
[261] What was that period of uncertainty like on your mental health?
[262] It was an acceptance, really.
[263] because what I said to my wife is if I wasn't a broadcaster, it wouldn't matter, would it?
[264] And so she said, yeah.
[265] So I said, you know, now's the time.
[266] I've had a great time.
[267] I spoke to my agent, Simon Dent, said, look, I'm getting out of all this.
[268] And he said, yeah, you can.
[269] No, don't worry.
[270] I'll leave it up to you.
[271] And, yeah, I thought that's it.
[272] Quit, I've done my time.
[273] And I'd like to thank all the people that have been persistent and said, look, a 25 % came of years, you know, still better than some people, you know?
[274] And Sky saw you on that show forever.
[275] Yeah.
[276] presenting and bringing, you know, insights and wisdom and laughs and all of that to the show.
[277] I also watched the tribute that Jeff, Jeff did when you left.
[278] What was that like having to speak to Jeff and the rest of the lads and tell them that you're departing and for the reason?
[279] Well, Jeff's a really close, pal.
[280] And he knew there'd been something going on for a while.
[281] He kept saying to me, you all right?
[282] And I said, yeah, I'm fine, yeah.
[283] Don't worry, I'm fine.
[284] And you said, well, you know, yeah, what's going on?
[285] So I said, oh, I just had a couple of bad days and stuff, but I'll be fine on Saturday.
[286] Then he'd send me a text and say, you're not fine again.
[287] I said, I'll be all right next week or whatever.
[288] But you can't pull the wool over people who know you real well.
[289] he was great you know the tribute that sky gave me which like I said was the right time to leave there I cried when he cried on the show I've never seen him cry before it's a really beautiful powerful moment since then you've in your own words you've really thrown the kitchen sink I think is the quote at the apraxia.
[290] And can you talk to me about what you've done since to mitigate the impact of the condition on you and your life and your career?
[291] Yeah.
[292] The day I went on GMB and spoke to Ben Shepard and Kate, I got a phone.
[293] call immediately from a fellow that I knew -ish fellow called Winford Doors.
[294] And he said, I can cure you, you know, I know there's people out there that will help to get you right.
[295] So he said, I want you to come and meet a professor Nicholson down at.
[296] Sheffield University so I said okay so I met Winford and the professor anyway between them they were saying you need to kickstart your cerebellum which is in the back of the brain what's happened is it's shut down so we need to get the jump leads out started again and get your brain going get your spruce beach going and there are various ways to do that so so I said yeah what are those I'll do absolutely anything here to try and get it right so he got Zing performance which is really exercises for stroke victims but it's helped my balance ARC performance, which is microcurrents going through my body.
[297] I have a tag on my ankle now with those microcurrents going through.
[298] All the time?
[299] Yeah, all the time, yeah, for seven hours every day.
[300] And it's helped?
[301] Yeah, it's helped, you know.
[302] I wouldn't say more than 60 % the old me, but, you know, I was 20%, you know, so I've gone up 40 % for a hyperbaric tent, you know, with the Oxygen.
[303] He recommended I do that, and I see a therapist who helps with the speech and help my anxiety working for Sky became very difficult you know before I even came out and said I've got it my heart would be like mad before they came to me at Sky the anxiety was terrible because I was knowing I wasn't the old me so I went to see And he said, look, I can cure that.
[304] The other problem, the apraxia, is a biological condition.
[305] So I can't help with that.
[306] But we'll try, you know, and see if we can get you three things.
[307] So getting rid of the anxiety helped me finish work.
[308] Or the work I had stacked up, UK Strongest Man, the Games, Tri -TV, all those shows Cash in the Attic I present So they help me do that And all those Treatments You know I'm taking so many Vitamins these days And I've just been Introduced my Winford To the Best Neurologist Neurologist in America and he said because I have good days there's no reason why I can't be cured so I've sent off a load of blood tests and everything to America and I'm just waiting on the results how is life for you now you've been through a journey yeah strange where are you in that journey now strange Strange in terms of I feel a fraud now in terms of broadcasting I don't bring to the table what I used to so that's hard my life away from the screen couldn't be any better grandkids family it's you know it's perfect unique Yeah.
[309] You feel a fraud.
[310] Yeah.
[311] Mm. Mm. Because you, because you...
[312] I feel I'm doing these programs and they're not getting the best of me, but they're tolerating me, you know?
[313] That's how it feels.
[314] I mean, who am I to say?
[315] But, you know, I think what they told you about...
[316] as you said, 25 % of you is better than pretty much everyone else.
[317] You know, you brought so much joy to my life growing up.
[318] It made me love the game more, made me understand the game more.
[319] You've made it hilarious.
[320] I mean, you know that.
[321] You're loved more than anyone I've ever seen on the screen.
[322] So, and you've earned that.
[323] That's a skill.
[324] It's something I couldn't do.
[325] I wouldn't know how to do a slither of what you do.
[326] So I don't think that, I suspect that fear is not as logical as you think it is.
[327] And you're a fraud.
[328] I mean that as well I could never do what you do I couldn't do of 10 % of what you do so you know it's like anything else you take it for granted your old self you do things you know that tribute that Sky gave me that's reserved for someone who passes away isn't it you know so I've had the tribute while I'm still alive that people don't get when they go you always look back and think you read the obituaries and the comments and think why didn't people say that you know so I think maybe I should have bowed out and then you know and taking the accolades and said thank you you know am I tarnishing what I've got what I had but I think my rebuttal to that if I may is that you're serving the world in a very important way now still even by having this conversation and being vulnerable and open you are serving hundreds of thousands of people thousands and thousands of people in a completely an entirely different way that are suffering with various conditions whether it's, you know, as you've said, post -stroke victims or whether it's apraxia or other things and they're struggling with the same self -doubt.
[329] It's funny, like our missions just change over our lives, right?
[330] So your first missions was in football and then you became a manager, then you did broadcasting, and now this chapter of your life is just a different chapter.
[331] You're still, you know, a wondrous broadcaster, but you're serving people in a completely other way, probably maybe arguably even in a more important way.
[332] See what I mean?
[333] Yeah.
[334] Yeah, I do.
[335] Yeah It's funny I did the ITB games And a YouTuber Was called Young Philly I'd never met him before But he's on the first show And he sees me Before we go broadcasting And he comes And he starts doing that He went You're a god I went What You know I'm young Philly pleased to meet you or do you know what an icon you are for black people i went no don't be dark you're you're a trailblazer you know you did tv before diversity you know how did you get into tv when you you know on sky sports and there was no black people around and all that so stuff you're an icon and i went no i don't see myself And he went, well, you've been my inspiration.
[336] So it makes you feel good for a second.
[337] That's worth it, right?
[338] Yeah.
[339] And that alone, that thought that you're inspiring people just by having this conversation and by sharing your story and being honest and not running into the shadows, as you could have very easily done, is going to help that.
[340] And you probably never get to meet them like you got to meet young Philly.
[341] But that's got to be worth it, right?
[342] Yeah.
[343] yeah it was i didn't believe him but yeah he's got no reason to lie though is it you know i mean this next uh this next chapter what what what do you want it to be full of my life has changed uh in terms of grandkids you know material things don't matter anymore um uh the love you are for You know, your kids, kids is something else.
[344] So, you know, I'm one of those now.
[345] Even though I'm still working, my main priority is spending time with them.
[346] What advice would you give me?
[347] You know, I just turned 30 last week.
[348] What advice would you give me on?
[349] I say it to everyone, work hard and you'll succeed.
[350] Don't ever turn down.
[351] and work, don't ever say on a job or this is hard.
[352] I don't like it anymore, I can't do this, do it, do it and do it to the best of your ability and see where it takes you.
[353] You know, TV is one of those jobs, I think, where if you work hard enough, you'll succeed.
[354] In football, that's not the case, you know.
[355] grown up in football and sometimes a lucky break is better than working hard.
[356] You've still got a workout, but you need breaks.
[357] And of course you need breaks in TV, but if you work out, I think you get them.
[358] I started off at Sky and so people say, how did you get into Sky in 1998?
[359] Well, initially, I was a pundit forum.
[360] I was lucky, fortunate.
[361] The first broadcast of the football league was Sondland versus Sheffield United at Sheffield, and they rang me. I was manager of the month with Bradford.
[362] August, we won four games and drew one.
[363] And they call me and said, would you come and be the pundit?
[364] So I said, yeah, Sheffield down the road from me. And they said, no, you've got to come into Sky in West London.
[365] So I came all the way down.
[366] Marcus Buckland, the presenter, who was his first day.
[367] And it was a double -header.
[368] Six hours of TV, obviously, ads in between and all that sort of stuff.
[369] time and that and jerry francis was doing the second game so that's where fate took a hand uh i did the first game sunland won at sheffield and jerry francis got stuck on the m4 so i did the double header so from doing six hours at tv i became the go -to guy then for sky so a lot live game.
[370] Are you available?
[371] Yeah, I'll come down and do it.
[372] And I did that.
[373] And then when I got the sack from Bradford, they asked, would I like a contract?
[374] And I said no, but I'd like to keep my face in the shop window.
[375] So I did one broadcast.
[376] And then Stoke came along.
[377] And I got that job.
[378] And then that job turned sour.
[379] pretty quickly after three months and then I just fell straight into the sky the broadcasting and so eventually the 1999 the producer of Soccer Saturday said would you like to come and join the team so I said yeah so you went would you like to do some features for us?
[380] So I would actually go and train with teams, Premier League team.
[381] You know, you cannot imagine in a million years that they let you and train with the players these days.
[382] But I did that back in the day, 1990.
[383] So I'd go and train, joining the training with them, interview the manager, the players, shoot the...
[384] And then I went and edited those pieces because I didn't want someone saying, oh, yeah, it's fine.
[385] But, you know, the hard work is done by the editor.
[386] So I would sit myself in a studio.
[387] And sometimes it took six, seven hours for a four -minute piece to edit it down.
[388] But I thought, right, I don't want anyone.
[389] saying he's there by pro hard work and if you do that and people see that it'll help not in all cases but in most cases that was the very start of what would go on to be a legendary career in the media um i when you look so you're giving me one reason there as to why you're successful which is just the hard work and saying yes but the media business is also it's much more complex than that in the sense that hard work, as you say, it's like you definitely need to do it.
[390] But what was it about you, do you think, that set you apart as in the media industry, as a broadcaster?
[391] I don't know that.
[392] I'm still baffled by that.
[393] I went to Ian Condren's 40th anniversary with his wife.
[394] He was, Ian was the producer of Soccer Saturday, who gave me the job.
[395] And, uh, I said, why, you know, I'd seen you on doing other programs, pundit, three, and thought you'd be great for us, you know.
[396] He said, uh, you know, took a chance with you and, uh, and it works.
[397] But 20 years.
[398] You must, you must have a suspicion.
[399] No, no, no, no at all, you know.
[400] I'm, I was allowed to be just me. I didn't have to work at it, like I had to work at editing those pieces together.
[401] You know, the training, playing, interviewing the managers all came natural.
[402] Yeah, it was that hard work that I wanted to prove that I could do.
[403] But no, I was fortunate.
[404] It was just me. Anne, when did you meet Anne?
[405] we met when I was at Swindon I got transferred from Portsmouth to Swindon, my first ever transfer.
[406] And in 1978, 1978.
[407] Yeah, 19708.
[408] And we actually played Portsmouth.
[409] my first game for Swindon was at home to Portsmouth and yeah i had to have a police escort to the game the club had been informed by the intelligence that the national front because portsmouth had 200 National Front Supports National Front is this racist organization from a couple decades ago Yeah so they'd got wind that they were going to do me in you know so you know when I played for Pompey there was a small section of fans that booed you onto the pitch because of your colour booed you off you know but like I said back in those days I didn't care not one job you know and I didn't care when they said about this you know you're going to be done in and I said oh it's just a threat don't worry about it but the police intelligence said no we need to pick you up and take you to the game and drop you back home so I did and you scored went to the year after 10 minutes and not like today where people don't celebrate of course stupid me you know we had this death threat goes straight because I scored in the end where the Pompey fans were and gave it all that so so yeah no so the police escorts wanted to take me back to my dicks but I said no leave it now it's fine and one of my teammates Kenny Stroud his wife Linda was with this girl called Anne and I asked her out you know 40 years later or 43 years later we're still together what a journey it's been with Anne A long journey, yeah What does she mean to you?
[410] Everything, you know.
[411] You take wives from granted or I did, you know, I can't speak for everyone else.
[412] But it's only when you have a problem like this because, you know, I just live for today, you know.
[413] I'm fine, you know, no problems, don't worry about me. It's when you have a problem, they have to, you know, look at your closest one and see what they do for you and how they react to what you're going through, which is difficult.
[414] And then you feel sad about, you know, not sharing things before and keeping keeping things away from.
[415] How did she react to all of this?
[416] She said she thought for a while.
[417] She didn't say anything.
[418] She said she thought for a while that there was something not quite right, but she couldn't put her finger on it.
[419] And she's been my rock, you know, now, you know.
[420] I don't hardly you know this is the longest I've spoken to anybody for a long time you know and you'll probably see when you edit this tape sometimes it's slow sometimes it's coming out okay now it's coming out okay and it feels fine you know and that's all to do with the mind maybe I'm talking about a good thing now with it and so it's fine and it's free.
[421] So, yeah, she's, you know, she's taking the weight, a heavy weight off my shoulders and, you know, allowed me to do what I do, to continue doing what I'm doing if I want to do it.
[422] But she does say from time to time, you're allowed to say no to these jobs that Simon rings up and asks me to know but I don't like to let anyone down you know I think it's worth saying that I think this has been a really really great conversation and I'm actually quite surprised to hear that of how much you struggled previously based on the conversation we've had today because I don't I don't know if I'm speaking out of turn here but had I not known about the condition this would have been a perfectly normal conversation on this on this podcast so it's really really interesting and enlightening to to learn more about it and I yeah I can't imagine as from a family's perspective as well going through that journey with their father where you're trying to find answers you find answers and then there's that whole sort of therapy process to get you back to where you are and the mental health journey that takes us on which we've not really talked about in detail but there's the curing the condition but then there's like living with the cost of the shift, the tectonic shift in your life.
[423] It consumed your mind or it has done mine.
[424] So every day I wake up the first thing I think, am I going to be able to talk today, you know?
[425] So immediately I wake up, I'll go in the bathroom and I'll look in the mirror and say a few words and it's fine or I think it's fine.
[426] the perception is fine in my head.
[427] And then I'll go downstairs and talk to Anne and all of a sudden that pathway is restricted.
[428] And, oh, God, not again today, you know.
[429] And that's been hard to get my head around.
[430] And my therapist, Daniel, he says, you exaggerate it in your mind.
[431] You know, that's the problem.
[432] because you've never had to think about your speech now you're thinking and you're overthinking so even though like you said it seems fine to you in my head I know that it's slower than it would have been had we spoken three years ago and that the cognition part the thoughts they're still the same oh yeah they're lightning quick yeah they're fine So they're there in terms of speech, but I have days where if you're out and about or even indoors, there's nothing in the brain area.
[433] So, you know, whereas I could normally go into a room, did it all the time, speak to everyone, have a laugh.
[434] that was the first thing on my mind now that part of it is hard work and it feels hard work and it feels a struggle and it doesn't feel natural that's the worst thing so i tend not to do it very often you know unless i'm feeling good i've you know spoken to someone else and I can tell it's fluid the voice then I'll go in a room and be myself again Chris we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest they don't know who they're writing it for and they'll never find out although I have said their name earlier on so you might be able to figure it out but the question they've written for you is, I'm going to read it verbatim, what has been the most happiest moment of your life, full stop, brought you the most joy and why?
[435] Is that kids aside?
[436] Let's say kids aside because that's, yeah.
[437] Yeah, kids aside.
[438] Achieving my ambition and my dream.
[439] Yeah.
[440] I can, you know, as a young black kid, playing on the fields around where I live, thinking that one day I'll play an airsome park for Middlesbrough and Ellen Road for Leeds.
[441] It's blown my mind away, you know.
[442] Ambition and dream achieved.
[443] Chris, thank you.
[444] I have no doubt.
[445] that.
[446] Your ambitions and dreams are just getting started because you have all of the core, the minerals that are required to achieve pretty much anything.
[447] And you've shown that your life has been a testament to that, even in the face of great adversity.
[448] Thank you.
[449] I thank you, not just for myself and for you giving me your time today, but I don't think you've realized how many people you're going to help in a really important, profound way, how much pain you're going to alleviate from them, how you're going to make them feel seen and understood just by doing this today and just by not hiding in the shadows.
[450] Thank you.
[451] So thank you.
[452] And thank you for all the joy you brought me. You've made football fun.
[453] You've made it, it made me understand the game better over the course of pretty much my entire life.
[454] So I'm, for one, I'm so glad that I still get to see you on the screens and I hope to see you a lot more.
[455] I know you've got a show Ninja Warrior, UK, Race for Glory, which is airing on ITV, which I'm very excited about watching as well.
[456] Yeah, I'm so glad I did it.
[457] You know, I tried to pull out when they rang me and said, we've been commissioned for series seven.
[458] I went, oh, no. And they were, what do you mean?
[459] Oh, no. They went, oh, no, you're not getting the old coming.
[460] They said, oh, don't worry about it.
[461] And I've watched a bit of the first episode.
[462] And even though it don't sound like me, it's possible, you know.
[463] so yeah i hope people enjoy it well as you said 25 % of you is better than pretty much most anyone else so we'll take that thank you so much chris thanks and on now