Constance Wu

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Jepard.

[2] I'm joined by Dan Mous.

[3] We have a really in -depth, wonderful conversation today with Constance Wu.

[4] Yes.

[5] She is an actor.

[6] She became enormous from crazy rich Asians.

[7] She's on the show fresh off the boat for years.

[8] Hustlers, Lail Liao Crocodile.

[9] And she has a new memoir out called Making a Scene.

[10] This was a great interview.

[11] And I feel like very vulnerable and open.

[12] I do too.

[13] I was really, really impressed.

[14] I came, as we'll be discussed, I came with a little chip on my shoulder, and I left with a lot of love in my heart.

[15] Yeah.

[16] Yeah, it was great.

[17] Please enjoy Constance Wu.

[18] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

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[20] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[21] He's an armchair expert.

[22] He's an armchair expert.

[23] there in a week.

[24] And a lot of days.

[25] More days than we're used to.

[26] You looked tan.

[27] I was on a boat yesterday.

[28] What were you doing on a boat?

[29] We bought property on a lake in Nashville.

[30] So you were in Nashville yesterday?

[31] Yes, ma 'am.

[32] Until late last night.

[33] This is a huge gamble.

[34] I have no fucking idea what the lake was like that we bought on.

[35] You just bought it off of a listing?

[36] You stood on the shore.

[37] I was like, this looks great.

[38] And then yesterday I got to actually go on the lake in a boat, but it could have gone any way.

[39] It could have been murky.

[40] It could have been shallow.

[41] It could have been rat infested.

[42] Who knows?

[43] Anything was on the table because I had only seen a smidgen of the lake.

[44] Yeah.

[45] Constance, rest assured, it's beautiful.

[46] It's a beautiful lake.

[47] Oh, did we get lucky?

[48] Because we were right now in the borderline, like, you know, we really just got lucky.

[49] This is a gorgeous lake and it's big, and the houses are nice.

[50] And we saw Johnny Cash's burnt -down house.

[51] Oh, my God.

[52] Very exciting landmark.

[53] Still got the char on it?

[54] Still got some char.

[55] There were a lot of people gathered.

[56] It was very confusing.

[57] Interesting.

[58] Welcome.

[59] Welcome, welcome.

[60] Okay.

[61] It's totally up to you.

[62] Tell me what you were thinking by having.

[63] Are you like a survivor and that you needed to hear any threads from outside as well?

[64] Well, I just thought it would be disorienting to see you there.

[65] And sometimes when I'm doing voiceover, I do this.

[66] So that's why I did that.

[67] But I'll try this.

[68] And that's like a thing.

[69] People do it or they don't, right?

[70] Voiceover?

[71] Yeah, people are really good at it And I actually don't think I'm that good at it Same But if you have a name, they'll put you in it anyway But it's a true art The people who can really do it It's like...

[72] Well, I happen to marry to someone who's one of the best in the world And we've often had to do ADR for movies And I go and it takes like 70 takes for me To match my words moving on the thing And she's like one and out And I think I've seen her take the headphones off And then put them back on and that's why I was curious what was happening.

[73] Yeah, I'm just trying to be like, Kristen.

[74] We all are.

[75] Who is it?

[76] Join the club.

[77] Wait, I have a question first.

[78] Do you have any nicknames?

[79] No. People try to give me nicknames.

[80] Yeah, I bet.

[81] Oh, Buck.

[82] You read my book.

[83] Enough of it.

[84] It was given to me. That's the first chapter.

[85] That's true.

[86] I had an ex -boyfriend and we'd call each other Buck.

[87] It started as Love Bug, which of course is one of my favorite of terms of Endearment.

[88] And then you just say bug, bug, bug, enough.

[89] It starts sounding like Buck.

[90] And then it just became Bob.

[91] That's very cute.

[92] Isn't that cute?

[93] It makes me think of our friends Eric and Molly.

[94] They call each other Mr. Yeah, which I love.

[95] We're all jealous of.

[96] Hey, Mr. Yeah, just like, Mr. Do you want this?

[97] I mean, mostly it's cute when he's calling her Mr. Yeah.

[98] No, I like it when she's calling him Mr. Because they're not the most, I would say, affectionate couple in our group.

[99] Right.

[100] So when they do that, it feels really sweet.

[101] It feels very like, oh, they're in their mold.

[102] It doesn't feel patriarchal that she's calling him Mr. Her husband.

[103] Like, Mr. that would be.

[104] Potentially triggering.

[105] What are your current pet names with your lover?

[106] Do you have any?

[107] Or do you have like 80 of them?

[108] Babe.

[109] So like Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson.

[110] Is that what they say?

[111] Is that what they say, babe?

[112] I'm embarrassed to say I watched that pornography tape when I was younger.

[113] I was back in Michigan when that thing hit the airwaves and someone had a copy and we all watched it.

[114] And I was overwhelmed with how frequently they called each other babe.

[115] Babe, babe, you want to go to a babe, babe, babe, babe.

[116] Look over here, babe, this babe, babe, babe, babe, babe.

[117] It was so much babe.

[118] Well, we were confused recently because my daughter, when she first started speaking, so my boyfriend always gets her in the morning.

[119] He's the morning guy, I do the nights.

[120] She knows that, so she would wake up and say, da -da.

[121] And then one morning she woke up, and she goes, Ryan!

[122] And we have video of this because we have the next camera, Ryan!

[123] And he was like, oh, what?

[124] And we were so confused because I was like, I don't even call you Ryan.

[125] Right, where'd she learn this?

[126] We realized it's because when he's on FaceTime with his mom, they do it together, Grandma, FaceTime.

[127] She calls him Ryan.

[128] That's in its own way peculiar.

[129] A little bit to me. Like, my mom almost never calls me by my name.

[130] She's here.

[131] Daxer.

[132] Well, she does call me Daxer.

[133] But she calls me like Honey and all these kind of things.

[134] Terms of Endearment.

[135] That's the right word for that, right?

[136] Yeah.

[137] Okay.

[138] It was a movie that was anything but sweet.

[139] So then I kind of conflate the two.

[140] And I think, I'm using that correctly, yeah?

[141] Yeah.

[142] I think you are.

[143] Okay.

[144] You have written a book.

[145] I want to immediately say that I was really enjoying it.

[146] And I think you're quite a good writer.

[147] And I was curious, had you written a lot before this book?

[148] No. Journal?

[149] No, I've always tried to be a journal person because, you know, they say that's good.

[150] It's been my newest resolution many times.

[151] Yeah, it's like a good thing to do.

[152] Yeah.

[153] And I could keep it up for maybe a week or two before I just get completely bored.

[154] It's a boring activity.

[155] Yeah, the people who do it I haven't missed a day in 18 years What?

[156] That's a lie though I had a two -year period After a movie I directed Where I wasn't writing in it regularly And my life went off the rails And so I haven't missed a day in years But I had uninterrupted probably 14 years Never missing one day Wow But that's because of sobriety I got superstitious that if I missed a day I would relapse It just became a rule I established early on So I think because it had that Weight and commitment behind it It really was no big deal And then lo and behold, when I stopped writing it, guess what I relapsed?

[157] Really?

[158] Yeah.

[159] Well, do you find now that you've done it so much that you actually enjoy it in a way?

[160] They say it takes three weeks to form a habit and then three months to form, not an addiction, but something like that that's a better word.

[161] Like even more than a habit.

[162] But like an attachment to it.

[163] And so whenever I was like, oh, this is my goal to do something, I would say you only have to do it for three weeks.

[164] Right.

[165] It should stick after three weeks.

[166] And if it doesn't stick after three weeks, then.

[167] You're not meant to do it.

[168] And so I was never able to journal for three weeks.

[169] But when I first started being a runner, I was like, you only have to do this for three weeks.

[170] And I did get hooked after three weeks, like an addiction.

[171] How long ago was that?

[172] Oh, that was probably when I was 19.

[173] So that's like 20 years ago.

[174] So you've been running for 21 years?

[175] Yeah, I mean, like I took breaks when I was super pregnant and stuff like that.

[176] But yeah, like a regular runner.

[177] It's now at the point where it doesn't feel laborious to me. It actually gives me a bit of a high.

[178] So that's what I mean by it's like an addiction.

[179] Sure.

[180] How long do you run?

[181] I mean, these days.

[182] Down the block and back.

[183] Down the driveway.

[184] To the postmates delivery guy.

[185] These days I run three to six miles, but you know, I have done a marathon.

[186] What marathon?

[187] I did the New Jersey Marathon.

[188] That's not one.

[189] I did it because I couldn't get into the New York one.

[190] Oh.

[191] Wait, because you have to audition to get into the New York one?

[192] Well, you have to either be elite or you enter a lottery.

[193] Oh, you do?

[194] Oh, my God.

[195] Because there's just too many people that want to run in that.

[196] Yeah, I did this back when I was waiting tables.

[197] What if you're just there and you start jogging?

[198] I mean, like, is there any kind of force?

[199] You just want to have a number on your chest, an official number?

[200] The whole reason you want to do is you want to get credit for it.

[201] Well, I do.

[202] You could live stream the entire thing and there'd be a record, I guess.

[203] I guess.

[204] Because there's thousands of people running.

[205] Who's to say who's officially there and who's not?

[206] That's true?

[207] Yeah.

[208] So I'm encouraging everyone to crash the New York.

[209] Crash the New York City Marathon.

[210] Well, the L .A. one any bozo can show up you know that right i don't know that one no we know this because our friend charlie who had never ran more than three miles in his life was like i'm gonna run this marathon tomorrow like tomorrow i'm gonna run this marathon did he get injured no he also owns a crossfit gym yeah he's a phenom he's a physical specimen what i say no that's right i said phenomenon which he still is absolutely yeah but yeah he did it and he walked like a few of the miles and he had some beers towards the end i think and he was doing a bit of live streaming.

[211] But by God, he did the 26th point, whatever it is.

[212] You know, there's a whole club that revolves around drinking beer and running.

[213] It's called like the Hash House Harriers.

[214] My sister did it.

[215] And it's serious, hardcore runners.

[216] But beer has electrolytes, which really helps you run.

[217] Oh my God.

[218] I love electrolytes.

[219] I should get back into beer.

[220] Yeah, I love them.

[221] That's Monica's great, great obsession is electrolytes.

[222] It is.

[223] Where's the New Jersey one take you through?

[224] Do Newark?

[225] I don't remember.

[226] It was so long ago.

[227] I did that one when I was like 20.

[228] I think I did that right before I met Buck.

[229] Buck.

[230] Rob, which also is not his name.

[231] Almost all the names in my book are changed.

[232] Oh, nice.

[233] So I'm currently writing something and I'm just going like, fuck it.

[234] I got to use the real names because I can't even think of the people unless I use the real names.

[235] Well, yeah, you reuse real names as you're writing.

[236] At the end, you go and change it all.

[237] Control, find, Peter, replace with Rob.

[238] Exactly.

[239] Slash buck.

[240] Yeah.

[241] Okay.

[242] So I already foresee having great anxiety.

[243] Like, when you come to know somebody, is it not like, oh, fuck, okay, I'm going to pick Rob, but that does not sum up who Rob was.

[244] Like, if I had to rename you Gloria right now, like, I'm writing about this, somehow this makes the book I'm writing, I interview this woman, Gloria.

[245] I'm like, God, that just doesn't sum up Constance.

[246] It doesn't.

[247] Because of the name change?

[248] People's name gets so embedded in my feeling about them that to just willy -nilly swap it.

[249] Now I would think, like, well, this story doesn't even make sense now that the guy is called Rob, do you know what I'm saying?

[250] Yeah, but I do think that there are some names that approximate it more.

[251] Like, a lot of people accidentally call me Candace.

[252] Oh.

[253] Okay, but you don't seem like a Candace at all.

[254] I don't seem like it, but like the sound -wise, there's the cut and the s. So Rob definitely does kind of approximate Buck's real name.

[255] I think I just figured out what his name is.

[256] Oh, God.

[257] Now he's made a mystery.

[258] I think it's Mark.

[259] No. Sorry.

[260] Wait, what would your name be?

[261] Dax is tricky because it's so unique.

[262] Yes.

[263] Zander.

[264] Maybe we call you Xander.

[265] Oh, no. Because then it sounds like I'm a blue blood leap.

[266] But it has an X. It does have an X. Okay.

[267] Zanthum gum?

[268] Oh, everyone would know it's you.

[269] Okay.

[270] Bazz?

[271] Oh, Bazz.

[272] These all still feel a little Euro to me. You know what I'm saying?

[273] Like either Euro or Connecticut rich people.

[274] I don't know.

[275] The Dax is German.

[276] So maybe we could pick a German name.

[277] Couldn't you just call me Dack?

[278] This is too much about me. Okay.

[279] You're from Virginia originally.

[280] Yes.

[281] And I was in Virginia two nights ago in Bristol.

[282] Did you ever go to Bristol?

[283] I don't think I did, no. Okay, Bristol's where there's a NASCAR race.

[284] Oh.

[285] Weirdly, the town of Bristol is in both Tennessee and in Virginia.

[286] Wait, is it in West Virginia?

[287] No, Virginia and Virginia.

[288] Interesting.

[289] Capital V. But you're in Richmond.

[290] I grew up outside Richmond.

[291] And is Richmond a suburb of D .C. in any way?

[292] No, it's like two hours south of there.

[293] It's very different.

[294] I feel like we considered northern Virginia its own thing.

[295] A joke?

[296] Because it's, no, we don't consider this joke.

[297] But it's like their D .C. area rather than Virginia, Virginia people.

[298] Right.

[299] Now, there's some great pride to be had if you're from Virginia.

[300] So many of our legendary folks through history came from Virginia.

[301] But I'm curious with two Taiwanese parents if all that blew right over your head or you gave a flying fuck.

[302] Like the fact that George Washington's house is there, any interest or no?

[303] Well, I mean, we had built in interest because I think our public school curriculum revolved around that.

[304] Yeah.

[305] My parents went along with whatever the schools did.

[306] How old were they when they moved here?

[307] To the States.

[308] He was a professor, right?

[309] Yeah, genetics.

[310] He came here to get his Ph .D., so however old you are when you get your Ph .D. Let's say 23?

[311] Yes.

[312] But my mom's 10 years younger, so she did not come when she was 13.

[313] I should hope not.

[314] Yeah, I think she was maybe 20.

[315] And they were married already.

[316] They came together?

[317] No. This is the last essay of my book.

[318] It's a very interesting, kind of heartbreaking.

[319] It's heartbreaking.

[320] I want to hear it.

[321] Aren't you allowed to tease some?

[322] Tease.

[323] My sisters and I never really knew how our parents met.

[324] It was kind of an unspoken thing that you weren't supposed to ask for some reason.

[325] And I didn't find out until after they had divorced.

[326] Hold on a second.

[327] Hold on a second.

[328] Quick guess.

[329] Well, oh, so many guesses.

[330] You're not going to guess it.

[331] He was her teacher.

[332] No. Oh, damn it.

[333] Oh, yeah, because he was a professor.

[334] Yeah, and he was probably doing some student teaching at that time.

[335] That's a fun story, not a hard one.

[336] basically what happened was my mom was working as like an intern at a lab and he was working at a lab across the way and he was so in love with her but my mom was like your dad he's total introvert like so quiet and he is he's a quiet guy hardly ever said a word to her and then she said one day he came to her dorm and was just like hey just so you know i'm going to america to get my phd and she was like cool good for you thanks for telling me you know this was back Back in Taiwan.

[337] Back in Taiwan.

[338] Okay, okay, okay.

[339] He was so quiet, you know.

[340] Yeah, yeah.

[341] He finally had something of interest to tell her.

[342] Yeah, and my dad was like, oh, I was so in love with her.

[343] She was like the most beautiful girl I'd ever seen.

[344] And then he left, and then he wrote her letters every day for a year, like love letters, and she never responded.

[345] Yeah, that's a lot.

[346] Yeah, but when they, he got a letter from her after like a year of letters saying, you know what?

[347] We should get married.

[348] Oh, right to there.

[349] Okay, nice stop marriage.

[350] So then later I heard.

[351] about the context of what was going on in my mom's life.

[352] And then for him, he was like, oh, my God, the most beautiful girl in the world.

[353] That he's been pining for a year.

[354] Yeah, he's fucking lonely in the States, right?

[355] Yeah, totally, doesn't know anybody.

[356] And then she comes promptly over to the States.

[357] Well, he went over there, and it was touchy to really gloss over a lot of it.

[358] But then she had to come, like, a month later, because they had to sort out visa logistics and everything.

[359] And she had a lot of second thoughts.

[360] I think she had written that letter rather impulsively, maybe even forgot she had written it.

[361] but then like felt a little guilty but then she got pregnant very soon oh wow so she was committed yeah and then they divorced when I turned 19 after I went off to college and I think that was on purpose because I'm really their only super emotional daughter so much to the point where it's hard for people to handle I mean I talk about this a lot in my book how emotional I get and my little sister is more like measured and calm and seems to handle things better so yeah A week after I left for college is when they split.

[362] What grade was she in?

[363] The younger sister.

[364] She's two years younger than me. So a junior or a sophomore or something like that.

[365] Okay.

[366] Are you a cancer or Pisces?

[367] I'm an Ares.

[368] What are you?

[369] I'm a Virgo.

[370] Okay.

[371] But I associate high emotion with cancer and Pisces.

[372] Newly, she does.

[373] Yeah, I'm learning a lot.

[374] I don't know any of this stuff either.

[375] None of us do.

[376] But she somehow found an Instagram account that is changing her life.

[377] Co -Star.

[378] And then slowly it's infecting us because she finds the ones that are really kind of crazy accurate.

[379] And then slowly we're like, oh, that's weird.

[380] Like, I certainly don't believe in it, but it's also certainly true.

[381] This is crazy egotistical, but so dead on that sometimes I'm like, oh, maybe the person listens to this show and is just taking pieces.

[382] They like, no Dax is a Capricorn, so they're going to write out a line very specific to him.

[383] What's crazy is they're coming in dead on for Monica, Kristen, and I. That's where it's really suspicious.

[384] Wow, I got to follow this account.

[385] Yeah, you do, co -star.

[386] Big shout out.

[387] Big shout out.

[388] No, wait, when you went to college and your parents got divorced, did you feel like, okay, it's fine, that they got divorced now, or did it break you?

[389] Some days, I felt like it's for the best.

[390] And some days it broke me, especially when my mom would call me crying on the phone.

[391] And being the only emotional kid in the family, I'm also the recipient of any time there are emotions.

[392] I'm the person that somebody calls.

[393] Because I guess if I could handle my own, I could handle everybody else.

[394] It's never one feeling.

[395] It waxes and wanes on different days.

[396] But, you know, also it was my first week of college.

[397] It's terrifying.

[398] You were far away.

[399] You were in New York.

[400] Yeah, it was in a different city, different state.

[401] I'd never lived away from home before.

[402] Yeah.

[403] And it was just very different.

[404] Now, I'm going to add really quick.

[405] So, Dad's a geneticist.

[406] Mom is a computer program.

[407] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[408] No way.

[409] Yeah, my mom is a programmer.

[410] And my grandpa came here for his Ph .D., also in biology, also genetics.

[411] Wow.

[412] That's crazy.

[413] Lots of crossover.

[414] Lots of sim.

[415] Did your older siblings take a more traditional route?

[416] Yeah, my oldest sister is a lawyer.

[417] My second oldest sister does health care policy analysis kind of something I don't really understand.

[418] But something to do with policy.

[419] You know, she has a doctoral degree in it.

[420] And my little sister has a PhD as well.

[421] Her PhD is in comparative literature.

[422] So it's...

[423] It's fake.

[424] Yeah, it's...

[425] She has a pretend PhD.

[426] No. We're teasing.

[427] We admire.

[428] and applaud anyone that gets a PhD in, truly anything.

[429] You majored in acting, and of course I'm curious.

[430] The reason I asked about your sisters is I wonder if they felt comforted by the fact that two gals were in route to some kind of safety before they found out you were going to go study acting.

[431] Maybe.

[432] And, you know, there's the stereotype of like Asian parents saying you have to succeed.

[433] And I always say, no, my parents never pressured me or worried about me in terms of having like a stable career.

[434] No. I'm wondering if it's because of the...

[435] they were just lax parents or if it's because by the time you get to the third, you're like, whatever, you know, because I had the two older sisters.

[436] I would argue that's exactly what it is.

[437] And you are on kid number one, and right now you're taking like a quadrillion pictures of your kid.

[438] Oh, my God, so many.

[439] I promise you, if you have a second one, there'll be 75 % less pictures.

[440] It's just how it is.

[441] The poor second kid.

[442] And then third, you know, they all have flat head and back.

[443] They can wear the helmets because no one's picking them out.

[444] No one cares anymore.

[445] They're like, oh, right, they just turn out over.

[446] Which is kind of great because then you get to have freedom to become an actor like I did, I guess.

[447] That's right.

[448] But my sister is reading the book, especially the chapter about my parents.

[449] It is interesting, they all have very different points of view of what was going on, even though the events remained the same.

[450] That right there proves that they had just different experiences than me. Yes.

[451] My brother and I will be having debates about where a very significant memorable thing happened in front of us, you know, violence.

[452] We weren't in that house.

[453] We were in the other house.

[454] I'm like, the fuck we weren't.

[455] We were on the third floor of the tri -level.

[456] And you're sure, right?

[457] Oh, we would both die over it.

[458] We're so certain.

[459] Oh, my God.

[460] I am so certain of some things on that that I will like fight my sisters.

[461] I'll like, no, I'll get my other sister to verify.

[462] It's your brother, older, or younger?

[463] He's older, five years older.

[464] Okay.

[465] But what I learned from that is I'm not quick to levy the verdict that he's wrong and I'm right.

[466] I mean, of course, that's what it feels like to me. All I really walk away from those situations, knowing for, sure is memory is so subjective.

[467] It's insane.

[468] You just have to conclude how subjective memory is.

[469] And it's even extended to things I see in political arenas or accusational arenas.

[470] I guess what I end up thinking is I think I believe both people.

[471] I have room to know that both people may believe that's the truth.

[472] And it's a wild thought.

[473] That's the cornerstone of our reality, but it's very, very subjective.

[474] Yeah.

[475] This is what I try to do in my book a lot.

[476] My mom's told me, she's said, well, the reason I told your dad that I thought this was a mistake and we shouldn't get married.

[477] And then she said that he said, okay, that's fine.

[478] I understand that.

[479] But if you don't, then I'm going to kill myself.

[480] Oh my God.

[481] And then when my dad read that, he was like, absolutely not true at all.

[482] He was like, I would never do that.

[483] That's like holding somebody hostage.

[484] So I wanted to include both of their points of view in it.

[485] And the thing I said was that I actually in a way believe both of them.

[486] I believe that I don't think my dad would ever say anything like that.

[487] You might have not verbalized that.

[488] Yeah, but I believe that my mom believed that.

[489] Exactly.

[490] Really, because she's always been a preemptive warrior and like worrying about the worst.

[491] And I truly think that she in her heart of hearts thought that would happen.

[492] Yes.

[493] So I think even the essay, I talk about being raped, but I take the time to consider the point of view of my rapist and how he would just.

[494] genuinely, sincerely think not only that he was innocent, but that I was the bad guy in that situation.

[495] And it's interesting because I think when you try to empathize or have curiosity for somebody's experience, people think that you're defending them.

[496] And I'm not.

[497] Actually, it was a good exercise for me to do that, to be like, hmm, I can see how he thought that.

[498] It was consensual.

[499] Yeah, even though I literally said the words I'm not ready for sex But then he did it anyway Even though I said literally twice to his face I'm not ready for sex And then afterwards I giggle to hide my discomfort He tells me to text him When I get home and I text him I'm home safe, thank you for a great night And I act polite I didn't fight back because we were in his apartment And he was being so kind when he did it And if I fight back maybe he'll turn violent So it's like why would you fight back somebody who's twice your size in their apartment when he's being nice and I rationalized like oh well I guess he's wearing a condom I guess it's okay making up these excuses but I did literally say the words I am not ready for sex and he just didn't hear it but then he got really mad at me because he kept trying to date me after that and I was ghosting him before ghosting was a thing sure pre ghosting ghosting yeah and then when he finally got a hold of me because he called me from like unknown number it was so weird because he was like hey i miss you and i was like you're so weird and so then i finally was like i have to put an end to this and so i sent him an email and i was like hey listen you're great i'm just not interested in dating you and then he became furious he was like you fucking horror i can't believe you would use me like this oh he felt used oh wow he was really really hurt but his hurt expressed itself as anger yeah well then you were right to think he might get violent.

[500] You probably protected yourself well in that situation.

[501] I hate to say that, but you have an instinct.

[502] I can see that in his mind, I'm the bitch who ghosted him.

[503] Right.

[504] And who was horrible to him.

[505] So I do that not for his sake, but A, it helps me forgive myself a little bit.

[506] And B, it's a gesture that I would like men to extend to women.

[507] Because if I'm taking the time to consider, this is why he probably thought it was consensual.

[508] The accused men who are like, no, it was definitely consensual.

[509] My version of the story is the story.

[510] I don't think it's too much to ask them to consider that their point of view is not the only valid one.

[511] And I think when you're solid in your point of view, it doesn't become a threat to think of somebody else's point of view.

[512] That's an incredibly salient point.

[513] I think that for me right there is the number one thing that people need to consider, is that when you're firm in your own position, you are open to hear any other one.

[514] I think it's people who feel most unsteady in their opinion that are the most defensive and unwilling to hear any criticism.

[515] Because it's a threat.

[516] I mean, it's just like religion.

[517] People who are very comfortable in their religion aren't threatened by somebody because they have a differing faith.

[518] If they're questioning it already.

[519] Or if they're scared of questioning it.

[520] Anything contrary is a threat, but it shouldn't be.

[521] And I think when you can hold both of those things and understand and appreciate that they both can be valid, I think that is a sign of maturity and it helps grow our empathy.

[522] And I think that's what we could all stand to do a little bit more of.

[523] I agree.

[524] I think we're at the pinnacle of complexity, this issue in particular.

[525] Yeah.

[526] There's also a legal blanket around everything, right?

[527] Mm -hmm.

[528] So I'm going to give a different example that doesn't result in jail time, which is I'm pretty comfortable saying I'm racist in that it's a spectrum and you can be a 10 and follow David Duke or Hitler and zero you're completely unaware that we are different populations of people I'm somewhere in there I'm aspiring to be as low as I can on it but I also grew up in Detroit in the 80s and I guarantee I have things like I have biases I have racism that completely are in me in a cellular level I have misogyny that's in me on a cellular level and Kristen has it right we'll be watching something and there'll be an aging actress and there's an aging actor and we hate how aware we are of the aging of the female actor and we'll even say it why are we so aware of it or conscious of it and so i didn't go to the grocery store and pick out fucking massageness off the shelf i didn't actively make a decision to be this way but knowing that it's baked into you that's how you have the consciousness to actually change and the people who completely deny Oh, I'm not racist.

[529] They think that racism is only, I don't know, using the N word or something.

[530] Well, that you hate, that you actively hate people.

[531] No, but being a benefactor of racial bias or systemic racism and thinking it is purely your own merit that has gotten you where you are, that's a type of racism.

[532] Yeah, I don't know anyone who thinks that they're my age and when they grew up, the only black people they saw on TV were literally people doing stickups or raping people.

[533] Like, if you're only image of black people for most.

[534] Most of your life was that, to think that that didn't somehow get into your body in a bad way.

[535] But anyways, I only bring up that example because I'm free to say I'm a three on the racist scale.

[536] The cops aren't coming for me. It's so complex and nuance for someone to say I'm a three on the rapist scale.

[537] That's really, you know what I'm saying?

[538] Yeah.

[539] Because I can admit to you that as the Me Too movement happened, and Chris and I were dealing with this together, luckily.

[540] We're from the same area of Michigan.

[541] We're roughly the same age.

[542] There was protocol and dating.

[543] the guy made the first move.

[544] Look, what happened to me is people said, I don't want to have sex tonight.

[545] Great.

[546] Do you still want to make out?

[547] Yes, we're making out.

[548] Maybe oral happens.

[549] Yeah, or maybe they say no at first.

[550] They might change their mind.

[551] Oh, let me turn her on enough that she changes her mind.

[552] And she does change her mind.

[553] What is that?

[554] There's this huge spectrum of what can happen between two people.

[555] And then also being wrongly informed by a previous experience you had.

[556] Watching the case of Spotted Pig, you know Spotted Pig in New York?

[557] It's a great restaurant.

[558] A manager and the owner.

[559] there was a lot of Me Too stuff that came out.

[560] Oh, we did there.

[561] But it was like a 60 minutes about it.

[562] And the owner, or I can't even remember who it was, leaned over and kissed an employee in her car.

[563] And hearing it from her point of view, she froze.

[564] And then you recognize, oh, yeah, animal's instinct is like we think fight or flight.

[565] But really, posture and submits the number one way we get out of things.

[566] The animal growls at you and you look down and get small and you're submitting.

[567] So for so many women, not what we saw in movies growing up, you would freeze.

[568] Especially if the tacker is larger than you, which usually is the case.

[569] Yes.

[570] So I actually had a lightball moment where I was like, oh, wow.

[571] Yeah, I guess if I kissed a girl and there was no movement, no objection, the last thing I would maybe have thought of in the past prior to learning this is like, oh, they might be frozen with terror.

[572] That's not something I was even aware of.

[573] And some people giggle when they're terrified too.

[574] Exactly.

[575] My therapist says that there's fight, flight, freeze, and fawn.

[576] which is actually acquiescing, but it's for your survival, but it's like kind of lifting the attacker up, making them feel good.

[577] Exactly.

[578] So he won't try to do more.

[579] Exactly.

[580] So it's all survival tactics, and one is not more legitimate than the other.

[581] It's you trying to get through the situation.

[582] Safely.

[583] Yeah, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm making excuses for rapists.

[584] It doesn't.

[585] It's such a complicated, nuanced, two humans interacting.

[586] It's a big deal that you can say, I'm a three on the racist scale.

[587] That's great because I think that's how change happens is when we all admit that we have some of this.

[588] If we can get people to admit, I might be a two on the rapist scale.

[589] Not of my own volition, not that I'm tying somebody down and beating them up, but there are awarenesses that I have now that I might not have had before.

[590] Oh, I can say both things to you with total conviction.

[591] One is I'm positive in my heart.

[592] I never raped anyone.

[593] Two, I'm positive in my heart.

[594] if I had my life to go and do over again, I would behave differently with what I know now.

[595] Like, both of those things are true for me. Yeah, and they can coexist.

[596] Yeah, yeah, you 100 % have never raped anyone.

[597] And I bet that guy thinks he 100 % has never, yeah.

[598] This is not me. No, no, no, no. I just want to, I know you haven't.

[599] No, but A equals B. But B equals C. No, no, no, no, I agree.

[600] I agree.

[601] This is tricky.

[602] I love it.

[603] Stay tuned for more armchair.

[604] expert, if you dare.

[605] We've all been there.

[606] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[607] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[608] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[609] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[610] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[611] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[612] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[613] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[614] What's up guys?

[615] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is.

[616] It's back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[617] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[618] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[619] And I don't mean just friends.

[620] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[621] The list goes on.

[622] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[623] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[624] Okay, memory.

[625] It's really...

[626] Memory.

[627] Well, I guess because I'm going through it right now as well, because I'm writing a lot about my childhood.

[628] In my mind, I'm like, God, what's my brother going to think of my version of our shared life?

[629] Are you going to show it to them before you publish it?

[630] Yeah.

[631] Yeah.

[632] I shared mine with my family.

[633] And what was the response?

[634] Well, the ones that had to do with them.

[635] Yeah, of course.

[636] They don't need to know about Bach.

[637] Yeah, they don't.

[638] They don't know.

[639] Fucking perverts.

[640] It's another business.

[641] You know, what was really lovely was I shared my essay about my little sister and our relationship, which had some drama growing up.

[642] And there was a point where we were super best friends when we were little.

[643] And then when I went off to middle school, we kind of.

[644] started growing apart and she started having her own friend group, which felt like a threat to me back then.

[645] Yeah, yeah.

[646] And so I kind of lashed out by being mean to her and pretending I didn't care.

[647] And I write about that, how awful I was and everything.

[648] And she read the essay and she wrote me back a response and she said, I think the thing that you're missing from your essay is how much I was your follower.

[649] And it's strange to hear that you missed me and we're pretending not to because I missed you too.

[650] And I was like, oh my God.

[651] she said, too.

[652] And the whole time, I was worried and I was scared and pretending because I thought she didn't need me anymore.

[653] And that's how writing my book was healing in a way.

[654] So you could send your brother some of the stuff and you could realize like, oh.

[655] Look, somebody's going to hate and somebody's going to love.

[656] I also think it's forced me to actually walk through his own story in a way to tell him as a character that I don't think I've ever really taken the time to recognize.

[657] Oh, yeah, of course, I only think of my experience in all these traumatic situations.

[658] but he was older, he had already known safety.

[659] All these things I start adding up, it's like, what a rough.

[660] I never even thought about how, with the divorce, I was always caught in my own issues with it.

[661] I never thought about what must it have been like for her in those last two years to have to go back and forth, to have to choose where she was going to live mostly, which she did have to choose between parents.

[662] And that must have been really fucking hard.

[663] And until I wrote the essay, I never thought about how hard it must.

[664] have been for her.

[665] Yeah.

[666] It's hard to look at your brothers and sisters and parents as independent from you.

[667] Or even humans.

[668] Yeah, exactly.

[669] They're all just characters in your story.

[670] But then when you're like, oh, wait, no, they have their own book.

[671] They have their own stories.

[672] They're almost like appendages.

[673] Like, you're stuck with them.

[674] If you think they're appendages, then you don't think they exist without you.

[675] Lo and behold.

[676] Yeah.

[677] Okay.

[678] So let's walk through a little bit, the rise up until when you wrote this book, Meteoric.

[679] I think you and I share something in common which is many years of nothing and then seemingly kind of overnight 10 years of auditioning in LA not getting shit get this one show and all of a sudden get a bunch of movies but you're semi similar right I mean you were steadily getting roles you graduate college I mean I really wasn't getting anything no Well you were on S for you I wasn't on SvU 2007 you graduated 2005 I had like two lines but that was my only thing but that had to get in the union and stuff yeah I guess yeah and I did commercials Like, I made a lot of money doing McDonald's commercials.

[680] Yeah, yeah.

[681] But.

[682] Like how many McDonald's commercials?

[683] I think I did about five.

[684] You did?

[685] Different campaigns or a runner?

[686] Different campaigns.

[687] Okay.

[688] I was really good at that.

[689] Do you think they know they kept hiring you?

[690] That's hard to do.

[691] Biting and smiling?

[692] Well, the McDonald's market is weird because it's not like there's one head of McDonald's who's like this commercial's okay and this one's not.

[693] Because it was like different production teams on every different one, different regions.

[694] Did you enjoy the irony that you had?

[695] had been not allowed to work at McDonald's in your youth.

[696] You applied and were rejected.

[697] Yes, I love that.

[698] And then you were representing the company in these commercials.

[699] I loved the irony of that.

[700] I applied for a job at McDonald's when I was 15.

[701] And I did not get the job.

[702] Wow.

[703] I applied for like, you know, a counter job.

[704] And what do you think was wrong with you?

[705] Because they'll let anyone work at the metals.

[706] Well, that's what they say, but obviously not.

[707] I don't know.

[708] There's been a great pool of talent in Richmond, Virginia.

[709] Maybe I just didn't have any.

[710] experience?

[711] I mean, I was 15.

[712] Yeah, yeah.

[713] I kind of like this because, you know, a lot of people are like, that person is so lazy, they could at least get a job at McDonald's, but maybe they can't.

[714] Yeah.

[715] And they got to go into acting.

[716] Yeah.

[717] That's where the lazy kids go.

[718] But the premise of the book is that basically you are from a town, an era, a family where being loud and emotional is not acceptable and that the stage became this place where you are totally not only allowed to do it, but encourage to do it and celebrate it for.

[719] for doing it.

[720] Yeah, I mean, having big feelings was unladylike.

[721] Also, it was kind of like, oh, you're intense.

[722] It wasn't necessarily frowned upon in that I was punished for it, but it was like, whoa, calm down.

[723] And that always makes you feel really bad.

[724] And once I found community theater, a place where feelings were not only accepted, but celebrated and used, sort of became my home.

[725] Right.

[726] You went to like a Lee Strasbourg six -month thing in high school.

[727] How on earth did you find Oh, it wasn't six months.

[728] I forgot how I found out about the program, but I do know that at that time, I started out doing community theater little kids plays.

[729] But as I got into high school, I wanted to get more serious about it.

[730] So I started reading Stanislavski and reading about all the great teachers.

[731] And I read about the Lee Strasbourg Theater Institute.

[732] And then I found this summer program that took high school students.

[733] And we stayed in the dorms at NYU and went to Lee Strasbourg.

[734] And did you feel like, oh my God, this is his real as it gets.

[735] Yes, I felt very fancy back then.

[736] Yeah.

[737] I would have too.

[738] Yeah.

[739] I mean, you feel like you're on fame.

[740] I guess that was based on Julia, but same thing, right?

[741] No, I think that was based on LaGuardia, the high school of performing arts.

[742] Your friend is shaking her head, yes.

[743] Wow, good job.

[744] It is.

[745] It was at a high school?

[746] Yeah.

[747] I thought fame was like a college thing.

[748] Fame, I want to live.

[749] Are we thinking of the same thing?

[750] Yeah.

[751] I haven't seen it.

[752] I've invested.

[753] Okay, LaGuardia.

[754] What's based on Juilliard?

[755] Anything?

[756] Nothing.

[757] I think, um...

[758] Save the Last Dance, maybe.

[759] Oh, that's one's great.

[760] Oh, great.

[761] That's the one with Julia Seiles, right?

[762] Where she does that amazing dance on to shoot.

[763] Oh, I loved that movie.

[764] What movies were you watching growing up that you were like, God, I don't want to be in that kind of movie?

[765] Well, I remember when I was in middle school, my favorite movie was clueless.

[766] And that movie still holds up.

[767] It's so good.

[768] It really holds up.

[769] Great movie.

[770] I mean, all the big box office hits.

[771] I was really into Clueless.

[772] I was really into Tlus.

[773] Titanic Magnolia came out when I was in high school.

[774] And I remember thinking, oh, this is so deep.

[775] This is so cool.

[776] And that and then Memento came out around the same time.

[777] And I thought that was really cool.

[778] What about election?

[779] Tracy Flick.

[780] Oh, yeah.

[781] I think I saw that later when I was in college.

[782] That's a great movie.

[783] Oh, incredible movie, yeah.

[784] We were just talking about this.

[785] I was saying there's certain movies where there's a single line in the movie early into the first act where you go, oh, wow, it's going to be that kind of movie.

[786] Election.

[787] It starts off as kind of like you think you're watching A movie about some teachers in a high school And it's upbeat and everything's great Alexander Payne It's fun And then all of a sudden that teacher's bawling And he goes Her pussy gets so wet And he has clearly been having an affair With Tracy Fleck And you're like whoa whoa whoa whoa I don't remember that line Oh yeah Is that really a line?

[788] Yeah yeah yeah And you go oh wow This movie's gonna go for it That's what movie we're watching I kind of watch this movie again It's phenomenal.

[789] I feel like American beauty is that way, too.

[790] Like, there's some minutes before you, like, whoa, what is this?

[791] Yeah.

[792] I remember I thought that plastic bag was so deep.

[793] You did.

[794] You were all over.

[795] Yes, I was definitely like, oh, my God.

[796] This is the deepest, most artistic thing.

[797] You could see where she was like, this guy, what an artist.

[798] He's filming this bag.

[799] You could buy into the romance a bit.

[800] This is the kind of guy you're looking for it.

[801] Yes, who can see the deeper beauty.

[802] You know, now I roll my eyes at it But I remember thinking it was the shit Yeah, I know I have two daughters And you have a daughter I'm already forcing myself to go like When these moments present themselves I'm like oh this guy Dan He's so cool Like makes these great movies About bags floating I'm gonna have to go Oh man he sounds awesome You know what I'm saying I gotta make sure I don't yuck their yum But I don't think that's gonna be That hard for you Because isn't it your instinct like my daughter now, she realizes anything she puts on her hand can be a puppet.

[803] And so she'll put like a sock on her hand or like a cup on her hand.

[804] And she'll go, puppet.

[805] And obviously, I don't think that's that cool.

[806] But I see through her eyes and I'm like, yeah, it's a puppet.

[807] And I'm not being sarcastic.

[808] I'm being sincere.

[809] So I do think one day if she's like, whatever her generation's Justin Bieber is, it's like, oh my God, he's the greatest thing.

[810] It will be a way that I look back on my own childhood with affection.

[811] Like, I don't think it will be that much of a struggle for you.

[812] I agree.

[813] But you also have this added layer of, okay, they're going to love this boy.

[814] You see, this kid's a hack, he's got no talent.

[815] He's not a director because he filmed this bag, right?

[816] There's part of you that's like, don't get duped.

[817] There's a protective part of you.

[818] What my knee jerk would be is, yeah, you know, maybe he'll go to film school and get good at this, but he's not one in an academy.

[819] Like, there would be a impulse to point out he's just a dude.

[820] I'm not going to do it.

[821] That's why I'm already prepping myself is I'm going to act like he is the next Alexander Payne but there will be a voice in my head that wants to point out to her he's not really done anything all that exceptional but that's a pessimistic answer in your own head because don't you think that Alexander Payne or P .T. Anderson when they were 16 we're like oh my god Bukowski is brilliant I love Bukowski oh no really so much yeah oh boy I know even as troubled and problematic as he is yeah but somebody who thinks like ironrand or something is brilliant I used to love the mountain head yeah I love I had an ex -boyfriend who gave me a highlighted copy the Fountainhead thought it was the deepest shit ever.

[822] For young men, Howard Rourke represents, like, their fantasy.

[823] Like, they'll just be proven to have been right over time.

[824] They'll never compromise.

[825] They'll never hear any...

[826] It's the worst.

[827] It is, it is.

[828] But you can see why it's so appealing to young men.

[829] 100%.

[830] But I'm just saying that you might say to your kid, this dude filming a plastic bag is going to amount to nothing.

[831] But you know what?

[832] Alexander Payne could have been filming plastic bags when he was 16.

[833] He most certainly was.

[834] Okay, so now I would label Pessonel.

[835] pessimism as being there's a 50 -50 chance and you choose to look at the 50 % that's not positive.

[836] Less half empty.

[837] Right.

[838] I would say me saying the kid has not yet developed his true talent is more a statistical statement.

[839] Yes, he might be Alexander Payne, but I would say it's a 0 .01 % of dudes who film bags floating in the air that are going to become Alexander Payne.

[840] You're the pessimist who calls his pessimism realism.

[841] No!

[842] If you're above 90%, that's not pessimism.

[843] But it's also choosing where you put your attention.

[844] Listen, you're right.

[845] There's no reason.

[846] No, you are.

[847] There's no reason for me to point out that someone might not be the thing they think they're going to be.

[848] You can absolutely believe that, but you can also be like, what is it about that plastic bag and his video of it that you'd like?

[849] That's not saying he's not going to amount to anything.

[850] That's saying, like, what is it about that thing that he made that moves you?

[851] I'm just having curiosity for your experience of it.

[852] Focusing on that rather than saying this is the final result, I think is also good for artists because you're focusing on process rather than product.

[853] I think the key to happiness is to focus on the journey, not the destination.

[854] I couldn't agree more.

[855] So I think just putting your attention on curiosity about somebody's experience rather than the possibility that will end up this way or that way is not blind optimism or pessimism.

[856] It's just a better way for you to exercise your heart in kind of a way.

[857] And I'll assure you that I'm going to really be supportive of the guy.

[858] It's already happening.

[859] Yeah, it's already happening.

[860] These little tests come up all the time.

[861] I'm being honest about the fact that always my impulses protect you.

[862] But then the greater part of my brain, my frontal lobe says, no, no, this is her time to get hurt.

[863] And this is her time to be heartbroken.

[864] But my first impulse is this bozo's not going anywhere.

[865] Okay?

[866] This guy's going to get three girls pregnant.

[867] He's a loser.

[868] He's got a schick.

[869] So he's himself as an artist, but he's lazy.

[870] Yes, but to protect somebody from pain.

[871] In one of my essays, I talk about this guy who didn't want to commit to me in a relationship because he said he wanted to protect myself from future pain.

[872] And I just don't think you can ever protect yourself from pain, but you can deprive yourself of the possibility of joy in the attempt to protect yourself from pain.

[873] So if pain's going to fucking happen anyway, you might as well let the good stuff happen too.

[874] I think what we're saying is the bill always comes due.

[875] Enjoy the meal.

[876] Yeah.

[877] Enjoy the shit out of the meal.

[878] It's going to be a great meal before that bill comes.

[879] But the bill does always come.

[880] You can't get away from it.

[881] I read a great tweet this morning.

[882] You know, because the queen recently died in England and there's that long queue.

[883] I love what you said in England.

[884] Not the one in America.

[885] But somebody said like, aren't we all just in a long queue waiting for a coffin?

[886] And I was like, that's an interesting place to put your attention.

[887] A friend of our sent us this incredible digital schematic about how to improve that line.

[888] And their ultimate goal is to get one of those Kawasaki robotic arms and the casket would be on there.

[889] It would spin arounds and then there would be conveyor belts and they were like, they think they'd get 60 people at a minute and see it or whatever.

[890] And then they did the math.

[891] Like throwing stuff at it.

[892] That's amazing.

[893] Now my daughter falls in love with that man or woman who made it.

[894] I'm like, that person's got some talent.

[895] Yeah.

[896] Buckle up.

[897] The next Elon Musk.

[898] Oh, God.

[899] You don't want your daughter to fall in love with Elon Musk.

[900] And see, that's why it's all tricky because on paper, this person seems like they have a really great future ahead of them.

[901] But then they could be whacked out.

[902] They sure could.

[903] There's just no talent.

[904] Okay.

[905] I learned a chapter of your life today that I didn't know about.

[906] First of all, I knew you were on fresh off the boat.

[907] And more so I knew, because I've been friends with John Chu for probably 15 years.

[908] Oh, really?

[909] Yeah, yeah.

[910] I met him when he was about to direct, like, step up two.

[911] And then I've watched his incredible journey to who he is today.

[912] It's very exciting when you meet people on the ground floor and you see them do well.

[913] So, of course, I knew a lot about crazy rich Asians.

[914] I then knew about your tweet.

[915] Of course, that got to me. Do you know about the tweet?

[916] I don't think so.

[917] Because it leads us to this book.

[918] Yeah.

[919] I did Crazy Rich Asians, and they had told me that my show, fresh off the boat, probably wasn't going to be renewed.

[920] And so they had said, you have our blessing to go seek other work.

[921] But then with the success of Crazy Rich Asians, it suddenly looked really bad to cancel the only Asian American sitcom and television.

[922] So then, even though they hadn't made any promises, they renewed it.

[923] And I was sort of having what I think of as a drunk in a bar kind of moment.

[924] But I had it on Twitter, which is not a bar.

[925] Which is also like your mom writing your dad, the thing, let's get married.

[926] Kind of, yeah, it was impulsive and it was a moment of heat where I was like, fucking hell.

[927] And I basically got canceled for being ungrateful.

[928] So can I read the tweet?

[929] Because I think Monica, she was, the tweet was, it was right when they announced that it was coming back for a sixth season.

[930] Okay.

[931] And Constance tweeted, so upset right now that I'm literally crying.

[932] Ugh, fuck.

[933] Yeah.

[934] So look, I'm going to be dead honest with you.

[935] I'm talking to you now and I totally like you and I would have liked you back then.

[936] But knowing very little about you, this made it to me, right?

[937] this tweet that this actor upon hearing their show got picked up and I had the reaction I think a lot of people had which was like oh fucking get over yourself it rang to me of total entitlement I think I can say I would have thought that about a man I would have thought that about a white boy I would have thought that about anyone who had gone through what we've gone through to get on a TV show and that's the last I knew about any of it so actually was quite interested to read what happened everything happened after that I guess I assumed there was backlash I didn't know that there was backlash from your peers.

[938] It was mostly from my peers.

[939] It was.

[940] Yeah.

[941] And Asian peers, which is really important.

[942] Yeah, that's what I mean.

[943] Not my peers like the people who actually knew me. Yeah, yeah.

[944] It was people who didn't know me. You say you think that you would have felt that way about a male who tweeted the same thing.

[945] I don't think you would have felt that way about a personal friend who you knew their experience.

[946] You just would have thought the tweet was like, whoops, don't do that.

[947] Whoops, but you wouldn't have thought, oh, get over it.

[948] Because in my book, I talk about, this makes you upset to talk about, but I talk about the beginning of that show, how on set I experienced a lot of sexual harassment and intimidation and how I kept my mouth shut about it for so many years because I was trying to sort of preserve the reputation of the show for Asian American representation, for everybody whose jobs were on the show.

[949] Because if I'd come out that first season and said, the Asian American male producer of this show sexually harassed me, threatened me, intimidated me. I have all these fucking receipts.

[950] The show would have been canceled and it would have sullied the one shining beacon of hope for Asian Americans.

[951] But you know what?

[952] After my show became a success, I quote unquote dealt with it.

[953] I swallowed all the harassment and I stopped it.

[954] It stopped after a couple years after I had the power and I wasn't afraid of being fired anymore.

[955] But the thing is with pain or feelings, they don't go away just because you will them.

[956] to go away.

[957] Or even if you've removed the initial, quote, threat, it doesn't mean that you're healed from that.

[958] It was really hard for me to be on that set, even though I loved everybody on that set, but whenever I saw somebody being buddy, buddy with this producer, it felt like a betrayal every single time.

[959] And so I was never able to be myself on set.

[960] I was never able to just relax and be constants on set because I was always on edge because of that.

[961] And it was also doubly painful because he treated other women with the utmost respect.

[962] He saved his misogyny and powerplace for Asian women, which was interesting because I have since heard stories from other Asian women because this was pre -Me -2 movement who have had the same experience with him, but then you would see him revere our white and black female directors with such respect.

[963] Yeah.

[964] Do you have an explanation for that?

[965] I think it has a lot to do with a lot of East Asian cultures are very patriarchal.

[966] And I think America really emasculates a lot of.

[967] Asian men.

[968] And so when you're emasculated and you want to feel masculine, you want to exercise your power.

[969] And the one place that you might feel comfortable exercising your power is amongst, I guess, your own women.

[970] This is why people get so up in arms about my dating history.

[971] There's a whole movement of Asian men who criticize me for dating one white guy.

[972] And they assume that I only date white men and that I'm a traitor to my race.

[973] And this is a reflection of a much bigger system that's causing these strange irrational emotions.

[974] But regardless of where it came from, I was the recipient of this abuse and I was the sole recipient of it and I swallowed it and held it in for six years.

[975] And so when I had these tweets and everything, it was very uncharacteristic of me. But I think it was, I had held my breath for so long.

[976] Yeah, yeah.

[977] I actually didn't even want to write that essay because I still didn't want to sully the reputation.

[978] My publisher encouraged me to write it and I said, okay, I'm just going to do it as an exercise, but I don't want to publish it.

[979] But then after I wrote it, I realized, you know, it's pretty important that we talk about this.

[980] So this doesn't happen to other women, even if it's scary for me to talk about.

[981] There's so much on your shoulders.

[982] You're trying to, it's so unfair that you're balancing.

[983] Yes, this representation piece.

[984] First Asian cast on TV and a sitcom.

[985] And I led also the first Asian movie at the first Asian TV show.

[986] Yeah, you get nominated for a Golden Globe.

[987] Only the fourth in the history.

[988] This all gets really muddled up in also the fallacy of the model minority.

[989] No one's really thinking, oh, yeah, there hasn't been many Asians up there because of this fallacy of the model minority.

[990] No one's even monitoring to see if Asians are represented because they're not thinking of them as downtrodden or whatever the thing is.

[991] Right.

[992] And it's less represented than maybe any other group.

[993] I think Latin people are, I would have to factor.

[994] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[995] It should be way more stark than it is.

[996] But of course, Asians know.

[997] You know you're not represented.

[998] Asian kids know they're not seeing movies for them at the Cineplex and TV shows.

[999] So you all know, and you know what weight is on your shoulder.

[1000] Society is like, oh my God, look at this.

[1001] Look at this beacon of representation.

[1002] And so you're hearing all this positive stuff while you're internally experiencing all this negative stuff.

[1003] And that juxtaposition is rough.

[1004] Yeah, I mean, it's how do you promote, representation and especially I think the Asian community always wants quote and quote positive representation which I think is actually a trap I don't think we should be striving for positive representation I think we should be striving for whole human which includes people who tweet fucking hell I'm crying literally crying which includes people who tweet their foot in their mouth includes all of the messiness totally yeah but it's hard to juggle that with also holding your fellow Asians accountable for their sexes for their misogyny because I'm just sort of like, do I call him out on this when he's done so much for the community?

[1005] Well, look, this is a kind of a well -documented stress on the black community, which is they're the last to say Michael Jackson was a pedophile, they had the hardest time accepting that.

[1006] R. Kelly is doing this.

[1007] And rightly so, every time they had a hero, the FBI cooked up a case against them, and they did besmirch all these people that didn't deserve it.

[1008] So, yeah, they're in a situation where it's like so few heroes, and you're going to hold on to them.

[1009] Yeah, and expect that people make mistakes.

[1010] Once we're allowed to make mistakes and still be successful, that's when I think we will have representation.

[1011] If I have to be the flawless picture of grace and gratitude in order to have a career, I just don't think that's where true art lies.

[1012] Yeah, yeah.

[1013] No, you're right.

[1014] And we have a long history of, we almost love the fucked up white dude.

[1015] Oh, we totally.

[1016] We romanticize it.

[1017] Yeah, always in jail.

[1018] Well, again, his next movie is going to be phenomenal.

[1019] Cottage industry of liking bad boys.

[1020] People are tormented by their soul and then create great art. There's a total industry for that.

[1021] Now, even as I tell you that I was reading that, being triggered in all those ways, totally contradicting who I think I am in general.

[1022] A, I bitch about stuff that people would die to have all the time.

[1023] This show is that.

[1024] It's like the premise of this show is, in general, on a Monday, the guest is now rich and famous.

[1025] What did it care?

[1026] Did it cure everything for you?

[1027] It didn't cure any of it for me. No. So in some level, I would be hearing me and going like, oh, fuck, well, I'll take that over whatever.

[1028] And it's true.

[1029] I get it.

[1030] I would feel the same way about me hearing me complain about this or that.

[1031] And then also with the awareness of it's all a fairy tale.

[1032] It doesn't mean you're going to enjoy it.

[1033] It doesn't mean it's pleasurable.

[1034] It doesn't mean it solved anything or healed anything.

[1035] It doesn't necessarily mean it's good just because you set out to get it.

[1036] And I make room for that all the time for people.

[1037] So I'm embarrassed that that was my immediate thought was just like...

[1038] But I think if you had known me personally and known what I had gone through, because my close friends knew, I think if I'd said it in a bar to my friends, it actually would have been kind of funny.

[1039] I was playing the role of braddy for laughs almost.

[1040] Like, oh my God, I'm really crying right now.

[1041] I was almost making fun of myself, but the thing is I wasn't in a bar around people I knew.

[1042] And so I think you should give yourself more credit because I think if it was your close friend, you would have gotten it.

[1043] But it was the wrong arena for that.

[1044] Well, as I now read A, your response, know what happened to you the following three years after this, which is true all the time.

[1045] I just watch this documentary about this football player, Manti.

[1046] He thought this girlfriend was real.

[1047] He was being catfish.

[1048] Oh, I read that.

[1049] He thought she died in his senior year of football.

[1050] He's saying, I dedicate this to my girlfriend.

[1051] Turns out it was a catfish.

[1052] He didn't know that.

[1053] America turns on him.

[1054] They loved him.

[1055] Then they turned on him.

[1056] And the kids did nothing wrong.

[1057] And I'm like, God, if you know everyone's story, there's very few people that you'd be like, well, that's a monster.

[1058] I think the more we show that we share those feelings rather than judging them, and we take those opportunities to engage in curiosity for somebody's experience rather than judgment.

[1059] That's how you erase the model minority.

[1060] It's, again, where you put your attention.

[1061] I mean, everybody loves to talk about the slap.

[1062] Regardless of what you think whether it's right or wrong, I think it's a good practice when something big happens like that.

[1063] Instead of saying, oh, that was wronger.

[1064] Oh, you know, I think that was good to say, oh, hmm, I wonder what was going on that led to this.

[1065] It's just where do we put our attention on curiosity for context and for people's experience or on judging it?

[1066] And the thing that I think is tricky is people think that engaging in curiosity is the same thing as defending.

[1067] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1068] And it's not.

[1069] I was the very next day on the show going, I reject all this, that it's being called assault.

[1070] I don't think if Dustin Hoffman slapped Robert De Niro that it would be labeled as salt.

[1071] What all is happening that you have no awareness of as the white viewer castigating a verdict?

[1072] That one I feel like I got right.

[1073] I was like, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[1074] Everyone's too excited to be mad about this.

[1075] Also, it's wrong.

[1076] Duh, don't fucking smack someone in public.

[1077] Also, I can say that.

[1078] But I had a lot of curiosity on if we would have had similar motivations for how that would end up happening.

[1079] But everybody does things that are wrong occasionally.

[1080] This is true.

[1081] If we didn't have fallibilities and we always did the things that were right, everybody in the world would have six -pack abs.

[1082] We know better, but sometimes we don't do things, you know?

[1083] I think what happened for some people, or maybe for myself, is I go to the worst, simplest explanation.

[1084] It's not that your work environment might be miserable.

[1085] It's that you just had a hit movie and now you think you're too big for TV.

[1086] That was so right there on a platter.

[1087] Yeah, it was an easy narrative.

[1088] Yes.

[1089] No crazy rich Asians.

[1090] Who knows what the reaction is?

[1091] Probably you get heat, but I think it's just because there was something so simple to explain that, counterintuitive reaction to another season that's also in the mix, which again is like the power of story, which we're all combating at all times.

[1092] I don't fault anyone.

[1093] I mentioned a few months ago how a fellow Asian actress, who was a former colleague of mine, told me that basically I didn't deserve to live anymore.

[1094] I don't even fault her.

[1095] I don't fault anybody for their criticism of me because I could understand where it comes from.

[1096] I just think it's an opportunity now that I've talked a little bit about the context to maybe think about where we direct our attention the next time something happens.

[1097] Yeah, yeah.

[1098] I'm embarrassed that I went right into the thing.

[1099] But you're human.

[1100] You shouldn't be embarrassed.

[1101] That happens.

[1102] It's okay to also be embarrassed when I could have done better.

[1103] It would have been great if I would have said, oh, I think she thinks she's hot shit because she had this movie, fuck her.

[1104] I should have then gone, but I do wonder if it's something else.

[1105] Like I owe myself.

[1106] I like to think I think I'm thorough enough to go.

[1107] I wonder if X, Y, or Z. You had the information you had.

[1108] And I didn't look too much further, to be honest with you.

[1109] It was like something I just scanned by.

[1110] Well, you wouldn't have found anything else because I kept my mouth shut on a lot of it.

[1111] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1112] So the reaction on your end was deeply painful, deeply destructive, and you had a suicide attempt in the wake of all this?

[1113] Yeah.

[1114] Does it feel weird to write about stuff and then you have to talk about it?

[1115] To turn that over and then to be sitting with another human, is it uncomfortable?

[1116] I don't think it's uncomfortable, but I worry about the clarity of it sometimes.

[1117] I feel like maybe it's an opportunity for me to talk about it a little more.

[1118] It's a difficult thing to talk about, but it was three years ago.

[1119] I've got through a lot of therapy since then.

[1120] And it's important to me to talk about it.

[1121] So I'm glad to have the opportunity.

[1122] I want to avoid being salacious.

[1123] My interest is let's just jump to the nadir, the bi.

[1124] bottom.

[1125] I'm interested in how you come out of that pit.

[1126] I'm actually not interested in what you did to do anything or the person who finds you and what that whole thing.

[1127] I'm interested in like, once you've bottomed out, how do you start climbing back?

[1128] I ended up in the emergency room and in the hospital and then I had to be under observation for a bit and I had to do therapy every single day.

[1129] Was that your first time in therapy?

[1130] No. But I had had a therapist for 10 years, But it was weird because she was my therapist back when I was in New York, but then I was so connected to her that when I moved to L .A., I stayed with her and it was just phone therapy.

[1131] But then it was really hard to do because, you know, when you're on a network show, your hours are weird, and you don't really have time for therapy.

[1132] So I would try, but I wasn't always able to.

[1133] And then when I had the suicide attempt, I was in New York, which is not my home anymore, because I just finished filming hustlers.

[1134] So I was paired with a psychiatrist who I'd never met before, but I saw him every day.

[1135] And then when I came back to L .A., I found a psychologist who does work with people in the industry and who I could see face -to -face.

[1136] And I saw her at least three times a week for a really long time.

[1137] And now I still go once a week.

[1138] Okay, so I've had some therapy, but I started therapy in January in a way that I've never.

[1139] This go -runs the very first time I've been 100 % honest with any human being in my entire life.

[1140] I hear you on that.

[1141] Like, this is the time.

[1142] It's now or never.

[1143] It's the whole goddamn story.

[1144] That's why I think often for the first several years you do it, it's helpful in the larger journey, but getting to the point where you could be completely honest, because I think so many people go into therapy, either looking to vent something, a breakup or whatever, or a defensiveness.

[1145] They tell the narrative of their own story saying like, oh, but this happened to me. I'm the good guy.

[1146] Instead of going into a session being like, I did these bad things.

[1147] I'm not always the good guy.

[1148] What does that say about me?

[1149] And when you can get to the point where you can talk about those things without shame, I think that's when you can start to actually heal them.

[1150] But I think so few people go into it that way.

[1151] Or it takes them a long time to get there.

[1152] It certainly shook me a lot.

[1153] Well, I also, like, I'm a human and I'm an approval junkie, and I want the person to like me, and I don't want them to be disappointed in me. And for me to report the times that I'm not very admirable is really, hard, especially if I come to like them.

[1154] But when you can get to the point where not only are you trying to hide the bad things you do, but also the bad things you think.

[1155] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1156] Because sometimes you don't do the bad thing, but you admit I thought this.

[1157] I wish I didn't think it.

[1158] That's where I try to be the good guys.

[1159] Like, listen, I know I shouldn't have thought this, but I do think this sometimes.

[1160] And I wish I didn't.

[1161] What does this say about me?

[1162] And I think that's where the real work begins.

[1163] But so many of us are defensive about our own.

[1164] thoughts.

[1165] No, I'm not that way.

[1166] I'm not racist.

[1167] Instead of just being like, oh yeah, that does happen sometimes.

[1168] And you have to be selective with who you share that with, because some people will weaponize it.

[1169] What's maddening to me is like, because I'm sober and I'm sponsored so many people over the years, I've heard, though, very worse shit.

[1170] I mean, you get someone day two after a 20 year addiction.

[1171] There's some bodies.

[1172] And I always have just total love and compassion and understanding.

[1173] What I really have to do as an exercise is force myself to recognize that this person I'm talking to, has that same love and understanding towards me and that they're not expecting me to make the right decision every fucking time.

[1174] And this is where true intimacy happens.

[1175] I mean, it's my favorite line from almost famous where Phillips Seymour Hoffman said, the only real things we share in this world are what we share with each other when we're being uncool.

[1176] So you think, oh, I can't share this horrible part of myself because then I won't be loved.

[1177] Often it's the exact opposite.

[1178] That's where true intimacy lies is where you're really, vulnerable and honest about your experience.

[1179] Yeah, and the part I'm embarrassed about is like, I've already been proven that.

[1180] But I still have a layer, right?

[1181] Yeah.

[1182] And it's always going to be there.

[1183] But I think the thing that therapy does, because some people think therapy is like a button, it's not that.

[1184] It's like you hit this mistake once and then you think you're cured.

[1185] And then it relapses a couple months later.

[1186] And then you have to do the work again.

[1187] Then it's 10 months.

[1188] And then it's 10 years.

[1189] And the fact that it happens with less frequency, that is sort of the goal.

[1190] I saw a great visual thing on Instagram about grief saying people think it's like, you know, a ball in a glass case that shrinks over time, but it doesn't.

[1191] It stays the same size.

[1192] It's just the container around it gets bigger.

[1193] The container around it is the time that it takes to relapse.

[1194] You get better and better.

[1195] But you're never completely cured.

[1196] We all have these things that's like a part of it.

[1197] I think my intellectual vanity and my ego have a hard time that I learned the same thing pretty frequently.

[1198] Yes, and you're like, didn't I learn that on the last thing?

[1199] Yes, here we are again learning this, really?

[1200] That actually happens to me in acting a lot.

[1201] It's funny because I learned the same lesson every single job I have where I'll be really emotionally connected one day.

[1202] And then the next day, for some reason, I just can't access.

[1203] I'm blocked off and I'm like, what the fuck?

[1204] What happened?

[1205] And I call my acting coach.

[1206] And it's always the same thing.

[1207] I had one good day of work and it made me really high on myself.

[1208] then I got caught in my ego and then I'm watching myself as I'm acting and if I'm watching myself I'm not in character and then my instrument shuts down I learn that lesson every time but the ego is such a tricky bitch that it like it creeps in there you know so true I don't know why this makes me think really quick I hope you like this two second story so my childhood best friend he was a phenom baseball player but he got kicked out high school ninth grade because he's also a fucking animal and he too eventually got sober he wanted to win this radio contest to get sent to Detroit Tigers fantasy camp in Florida.

[1209] He's in his 30s.

[1210] And so they got to get a famous person to call on their behalf, and then the sports show will send the people.

[1211] So Chris and I both call on behalf.

[1212] He goes down there, right?

[1213] So in some weird way, he's getting to find out if he really was as good as he thought.

[1214] First game, night game, he hits a grand slam.

[1215] He's so proud of himself.

[1216] He goes out and parties for like 19 hours.

[1217] He misses the morning game and then the next game.

[1218] And I was like, oh, that is me in a nutshell.

[1219] I just needed enough to start celebrating, and then I just blow every single thing else.

[1220] In order to stay, it's a different skill, you know?

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] Okay, so you kind of walked away from Twitter for three years?

[1223] Three years, yeah, from all social media.

[1224] Now, the decision to come back, what was the process?

[1225] Well, I was so resistant to it.

[1226] It was actually my publisher that was like, well, you know, you really got to.

[1227] And I was like, absolutely not.

[1228] I almost lost my life because of it.

[1229] No. And for months I was saying that, and I'm lucky I have a team, my agent and my manager.

[1230] and my publicist, they're like, you don't have to go back on.

[1231] But my publisher was really pushing for it.

[1232] And then I talked about it a lot in therapy and why I didn't want to go on and what scared me about it.

[1233] And it scared me because I almost lost my life because of it because I lost my sense of self.

[1234] It was painful to me. But then when I reflected on what happened, I recognized how I might help somebody with my story outweighed my fear of it.

[1235] Talk about meet people where they're at.

[1236] They're literally there on Twitter.

[1237] I want to get the message about mental health, particularly in the Asian communities out there, about the consequences of piling on and having these super positive Asian role models and why we need to start looking as people as human, not as heroes.

[1238] This is the forum to do it because these are the people who need to be reached.

[1239] And it's not about my book sales at all.

[1240] The statement that I came out with, I spent months working on that.

[1241] I bet.

[1242] There were so many iterations of it.

[1243] I deliberately wanted to make sure that I helped in the maximum way if I was going to rejoin this social media storm that I was so reluctant to.

[1244] And I still think that I'll probably leave again to be honest.

[1245] But for now, I think it's helping people.

[1246] And so I want to do that.

[1247] I can intellectually tell you why negativity on, say, Instagram, that's the one I'm on, angers me so much.

[1248] But I think the deepest base of it is, I know I've entered an agreement, which is I want to let the positive comments feed me and fuel me and make me feel good.

[1249] And so on some weird level I know that the flip side of that is if I'm going to allow the positive ones to make me feel good, the deal is I've got to let the negative ones make me feel bad.

[1250] Because if I'm just deciding that the negative ones don't mean anything, but the positive ones do, it's not truthful.

[1251] One of my favorite poems by Robert Frost, I can't even remember the title.

[1252] It's either take something like a star or choose something like a star.

[1253] And in the line, he says, when the mob is swayed to carry praise or blame too far, we should choose something like a star to stay our minds on and be stayed.

[1254] And the thing I love about that line is he doesn't just say blame.

[1255] He says praise too.

[1256] So I think the positive reviews can be just as harmful as the negative because they feed your ego in a way that makes you lose touch of your star, of that light within you.

[1257] Well, it's kind of like your acting example, which is like I did something.

[1258] pure, which is what I'm now getting praise for, but now it's all about the result of the thing I did pure.

[1259] And it's almost become impure because you've bought into the praise instead of like, no, it's not the result, it's the process of that purity that we are looking for.

[1260] Yeah, but it's so tasty.

[1261] That's why we keep learning the lesson over and over again.

[1262] Because it is tasty.

[1263] Oh my God.

[1264] It's quite bizarre that this happened in our lifetime and it's something that you have to consider whether you're going to engage in or not.

[1265] There's a business aspect and then there's a Dax's personal aspect.

[1266] And there's a, oh, if I'm agitated and irritable because I'm a little depressed, I find that I'm on it more.

[1267] Oh, okay, so I'm soothing with this thing.

[1268] Is it actually soothing, though?

[1269] Like comfort eating junk food.

[1270] Is it actually nourishing your body?

[1271] Long -term and is not soothing, for sure.

[1272] Yeah.

[1273] But in the moment, it is a big enough distraction that it's a break from the other thing.

[1274] I mean, there are real dopamine hits you get from it.

[1275] So your body's tricked into thinking it's happy and it's not.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] You need more, more, more, more, more, more.

[1278] And then you're in dopamine deficit cycle.

[1279] And I get it all, but the line of Coke works.

[1280] It works.

[1281] It works.

[1282] For the time.

[1283] It does.

[1284] It does.

[1285] I definitely notice that when I'm happiest, I'm not the least.

[1286] But then there are other things that can give you, not dopamine hits, but that can soothe you when you're feeling down, that cumulatively do produce better results.

[1287] One example, which I am guilty that I don't do enough of, is meditation.

[1288] meditation when you're feeling down can do for you what that little hit of scrolling social media can do for you and cumulatively it won't have the negative effects in fact it'll have a positive effect but we don't always choose it because it's not the easiest route because you have to let your mind to be still and there's no validation we don't choose that a lot of times yeah so I'm going to brag now so I wake up I meditate I do TM then I journal one page then I write prose two hours I leave that Then I'm allowed to look at my phone.

[1289] My very best moment of my whole day is when I finish those things.

[1290] And then I pick up my phone and then the whole day is just a coast downhill back in the shittiness.

[1291] This is great, though.

[1292] The fact that you start the day like that, that discipline of the meditation and the journaling, that's something you had to develop, right?

[1293] You didn't have that when you were 21.

[1294] No, no, no, no. This is like, again, for being in AA for 20 years and watching what works for other people.

[1295] Do you think 21 -year -old Dax would have been able to do that?

[1296] No, no, absolutely.

[1297] No, no. Even Dax with young children couldn't do it.

[1298] Chris and I learned it right before she had our first daughter.

[1299] And we were doing it pretty religiously.

[1300] And we're like, God damn, this is heavenly.

[1301] This is wonderful just to take two breaks a day.

[1302] Kids came that went right out the fucking window.

[1303] Everything goes out the window.

[1304] It goes all out the window.

[1305] They almost serve as the same thing, which is your ego's on pause because they're the priority.

[1306] You don't have the free time to sit there and ruminate on what can make you happier.

[1307] What status level you could attain that would cure everything.

[1308] There's just no time for that.

[1309] Well, people always say, like, oh, has a motherhood changed you?

[1310] And I always say, I actually think it's made me more myself than I've ever been.

[1311] Because like meditation, you truly have to be in the moment.

[1312] You're not thinking about my next career move or my regret of the ex -boyfriend.

[1313] You're just like, oh, my God, my kid just vomited in my hair.

[1314] Or my kid suddenly just said her first word or ate her first strawberry.

[1315] And it's beautiful.

[1316] And you are just right there.

[1317] So I do think that having kids is in a way a type of meditation in the, that it forces us to be present because you never know what the fuck's going to happen.

[1318] Yeah, totally.

[1319] I say they're on mushrooms at all times.

[1320] Like they don't know how one thing works.

[1321] And any moment of time they enter is the only moment of time.

[1322] Yeah.

[1323] There's like no memory from behind.

[1324] They have no plans.

[1325] Yeah.

[1326] They're truly just like observing what's in front of them.

[1327] Okay.

[1328] I think this is incredibly impressive that you went through this entire cycle and have now written a book and are now speaking about it.

[1329] I'd see minimally I'm really blown away with the bravery and the not being defeated by something.

[1330] I've been defeated, and I still have moments of that.

[1331] Again, if we go back to the relapses and the this and that, in my opinion, and I think this is one of the problems with sobriety is if over the course of 20 years I was sober, 19 and a half of those years, that's an insane miracle.

[1332] It's pretty damn good.

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] Now, did I relapse and I lost this amount of time?

[1335] Whatever, like globally, 50 ,000 foot view, if I can fucking manage the bulk of my time being sober, that's going to be a huge victory, just from what my predisposition would be.

[1336] And yes, many failures are getting knocked down, but the global view sitting here talking, I find it to be that, the bulk of the time being progress.

[1337] Yes, you know, I'm proud of myself.

[1338] You know, I shouldn't be embarrassed to say that, but I am because I know what I had to go through in the work I had to do to get where I am, and I feel not like I'm going to be perfect forever but I feel that I've developed tools to better handle things when they arise so I don't you know make a mistake like that and also I've found the space to forgive myself and understand the context of what was happening then that made me do that which also has extended my empathy towards other people who make mistakes that's the best thing about looking at your own is that it helps you extend it towards other people extend that grace yeah it's all contradictions Half of me can actually forgive other people way better than I can forget myself.

[1339] So that's like one weird dichotomy.

[1340] And yet I'm so judgmental and write other people off in a way that I also wouldn't do to myself.

[1341] So it's like all these things are happening at once.

[1342] Like I'm extra mean to myself on one side, but then I'm extra mean to strangers and another side.

[1343] But the fact that you have awareness that you are even being extra mean or judgmental in those moments, just like you have awareness that you were a three on the racism scale.

[1344] That is the first step.

[1345] I used to get so frustrated when I first started therapy because I remember I would say, oh, I did this thing and I was really reactive and I knew I shouldn't have done it, but I did it anyway.

[1346] And I said that actually makes me a worse person because somebody who doesn't know that something's wrong and does it, they're not that bad.

[1347] I knew it was wrong.

[1348] And yet I still chose to do it.

[1349] And I get so angry at myself for that and my shrink at the time.

[1350] She would be like, yeah, but it's not like a button you push.

[1351] the first step is that awareness and yet you're still going to do it even though you're aware and that step might last five 10 years but I do think that I have moved beyond that step from awareness to behavior change behavior change doesn't happen instantaneously with awareness it just takes time there's no substitute for time yeah so you have the awareness in some areas more than others as we all do and it'll get better It has.

[1352] I'm much easier to be around than I ever was for the people in my life who I love and love me. I mean, there's been improvement along the whole way, but definitely inordinately frustrated when I'm back learning the same fucking thing.

[1353] Yeah, believe it you're learning.

[1354] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1355] Can I ask, you had signed on to like two sequels to crazy rich Asians.

[1356] Are you doing any of those?

[1357] Yeah, I'm signed on to them.

[1358] And is Chu directing any of those?

[1359] Chew wants to direct.

[1360] Oh, good.

[1361] But we know how.

[1362] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1363] But, yes, that is the dream.

[1364] You guys had a kid similar timing?

[1365] He had his first kid not too long ago, right?

[1366] He had his first kid, actually a couple weeks after we wrapped Crazy Rich Asians, which was, I guess, 2017.

[1367] I had my kid in the middle of the pandemic 2020.

[1368] Was it crazy during pandemic, though?

[1369] It was good because I was able to keep it private because, you know, all my Zooms were neck up.

[1370] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1371] It was crazy in that there was a lot of fear.

[1372] We don't know what COVID did.

[1373] We still don't know to pregnant women and, you know, the fetus and stuff like that.

[1374] So that's why I kept pretty isolated, which was hard in and of itself.

[1375] But it was kind of nice also to be pregnant in this little bubble and not feel like you're missing out on anything because you're pregnant.

[1376] Because, you know, women in Hollywood, sometimes you can't work when you're pregnant.

[1377] Obviously, if you're not playing a pregnant person, I had to drop out of a few projects because I became pregnant.

[1378] But then the world shut down.

[1379] And so I didn't really have to.

[1380] So there was no fobo in terms of employment.

[1381] So in that sense, her arrival was kind of perfect timing.

[1382] I would love that because when we had our first kid, I didn't want anyone around for a while.

[1383] Which is a very hard thing to tell relatives and stuff.

[1384] But it's just too much.

[1385] I just wanted to be with our little subway sandwich and not think of other people's emotions or anything.

[1386] I just wanted to sit and stare at this baby for long enough that I could comprehend it's really ours for good.

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] There's a lot of politicking around family coming.

[1389] So be able to just have that little bubble of private time with just us and our baby.

[1390] Yeah.

[1391] It was great.

[1392] And we did not plan a pandemic.

[1393] But our pregnancy happened that way.

[1394] And I kept saying her timing couldn't have been better.

[1395] Yes.

[1396] I agree.

[1397] Well, Constance, I've really enjoyed talking to you.

[1398] And I hope everyone checks out making a scene.

[1399] I applaud your honesty.

[1400] It's been a pleasure.

[1401] Great meeting you.

[1402] Thank you so much.

[1403] Take care.

[1404] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1405] How's your weekend?

[1406] Oh, man. What a drive.

[1407] fun drive.

[1408] I got some good tips from Armcherry's about places to stop along the 10 in West Texas.

[1409] Oh, you did?

[1410] I was lamenting about the fact that it's not the most thrilling ride.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] A lot of good tips, swim holes.

[1413] Largest spring -fed pool in the country.

[1414] Oh, that's cool.

[1415] Yeah, so.

[1416] So I've been listening to those tips and I have a list.

[1417] You know what else I'm doing?

[1418] What?

[1419] I think.

[1420] After this, I'm not.

[1421] I'm going to actually chart it.

[1422] Stopping Sedona, maybe.

[1423] Oh, nice.

[1424] Yeah, stay in enchantment, maybe.

[1425] Maybe you have a hamburger.

[1426] We love enchantment.

[1427] How is the dogs game?

[1428] Go sick them.

[1429] No, I don't want to do this because it could get jinxy.

[1430] Okay.

[1431] Because obviously we're recording this before the weekends.

[1432] But I am so excited to go.

[1433] Oh, my God.

[1434] You know what I might do?

[1435] Oh, would this be incredible?

[1436] You're going to come?

[1437] No, I'm not going to come That'd be fun I'm going to try to view the game I might watch the game While I'm driving Oh, to look for me And see if they cut to you And put your name on the screen Oh my God Oh my God That would be I'd swerve Big Brown Off the road in excitement Listen, that's not a thing At college games Yeah it is Isn't it a thing at every game?

[1438] No, just Super Bowls No No no no no No, I was just watching.

[1439] Oh, whoa, the F -1 races.

[1440] They're popping on all those slabs.

[1441] F -1, okay, yes.

[1442] I've never watched a college game, and then they've, like, shown people in the suite.

[1443] Basketball games, they do.

[1444] When I've gone to...

[1445] College football, you're saying all you...

[1446] Let me roll out all my proof for...

[1447] They did show what Matthew McConaughey at that game when you left.

[1448] Super Bowl!

[1449] No, no, no, that was a UT game.

[1450] It was?

[1451] Yes, also, I've been on the telecast when I go to Dodgers.

[1452] games.

[1453] Dodgers is a national, yes, I'm talking about college football.

[1454] Yeah, they're all loyal to the same master, which is they got to fill time of that telecast.

[1455] So there's all this filler and they're popping around.

[1456] They're showing people in the stands, they're showing guys with they've painted themselves and their titties are out, their bumping chest with their other buddies.

[1457] You know, those dodoes make it on the telecast.

[1458] And then they're going to pop to you in your 12 guess I don't think they are but maybe well we'll find out you know what I'm going to add it to my DVR in case it happens I can show you you're going to watch the whole game you betcha well I'm so excited and we're going to tailgate oh I hope you're sloshed by the time you get in there you're wearing high heels yeah oh boots the tactical you have to question mark No, you have to.

[1459] Oh, my God.

[1460] I'm nervous when this new style you told us about takes off and people are going to those games and just they're panty -hows.

[1461] Yeah, panty -ho.

[1462] Fanny -ho.

[1463] And undies.

[1464] The South might be slow on that trend because they're a little more conservative.

[1465] Mm -hmm.

[1466] Are you wearing a conventionally conservative outfit?

[1467] Is it look like you're going to the Kentucky Derby?

[1468] No. I'm wearing...

[1469] Huge hat, though, right?

[1470] I'm not wearing a huge hat.

[1471] I'm wearing red velvet pan.

[1472] Oh, wow, okay.

[1473] A little flared.

[1474] Top Ford.

[1475] Oh, my God, T. Ford.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] And a black, you have to wear the colors, obvi.

[1478] Black, sheer.

[1479] That means see -through.

[1480] Okay.

[1481] Top.

[1482] So it has a little turtleneck.

[1483] The turtleneck part is not see -through, and then there's like a part on the sleeve that's not see -through, but it's all black.

[1484] Uh -huh.

[1485] I'll wear a body suit under it.

[1486] Okay.

[1487] And it's going to be chic.

[1488] Okay, great.

[1489] And boots, black boots.

[1490] Wow.

[1491] So what's the other color?

[1492] They're not all black.

[1493] Red.

[1494] Oh, the red pants.

[1495] Okay, they're red and black.

[1496] Yeah, red and black.

[1497] And red is...

[1498] Yeah.

[1499] Chef's kiss.

[1500] It is.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] Is red and black not the colors of Roll Tide?

[1503] What's their colors?

[1504] They're like maroon.

[1505] Oh.

[1506] They're like fake red.

[1507] Yeah, they're fake red.

[1508] I'm going to go to a Roll Tide game and see if I can get on the telecast.

[1509] Dax.

[1510] It's not funny.

[1511] It's very funny.

[1512] No, it's not.

[1513] It is because you care, which makes it very funny.

[1514] But what if I was like trying to jinx max?

[1515] You would be mad.

[1516] You try.

[1517] Other people have done all they can to stop him and he's unstoppable.

[1518] Well, they don't have powers like me. He just broke some records two weekends ago.

[1519] Broke all the records.

[1520] Most wins in a season, most points in a season.

[1521] Well, Georgia's number one.

[1522] That's great.

[1523] And Tennessee's number two, so it's one versus two.

[1524] I know.

[1525] That's what's funny.

[1526] You care about this Roll Tide business.

[1527] They're not even playing Roll Tide.

[1528] I know, but in general.

[1529] that they are rivals.

[1530] Okay.

[1531] Well, we have multiple rivals.

[1532] You guys pick a lot of fights.

[1533] It's the South.

[1534] That rebel spirit.

[1535] Our real rival is Georgia Tech.

[1536] Oh, my God.

[1537] How do you guys keep it straight?

[1538] So this is great.

[1539] You've eventized every single person you'll play is your most number one rival.

[1540] Georgia Tech is our rival because it's the other Georgia school, big Georgia school.

[1541] Okay.

[1542] But they're bad at football, so it's never a thing.

[1543] Yeah.

[1544] They're like, let's see, roll trig.

[1545] Exactly.

[1546] Roll trig.

[1547] Exactly.

[1548] You know my dad went to Georgia Tech.

[1549] Oh, he did?

[1550] For what?

[1551] His master's degree?

[1552] Oh, I thought he arrived with that.

[1553] So he arrived with a bachelor?

[1554] Mm -hmm.

[1555] And he got two master's degrees here.

[1556] One at Georgia Tech.

[1557] One at Georgia Tech.

[1558] Mm -mm.

[1559] No, really?

[1560] One at in Kansas.

[1561] Oh, no kidding.

[1562] Who's he root for when those two teams collide?

[1563] Does he watch college football?

[1564] Yeah, he's gotten more into it.

[1565] Oh, how adorable.

[1566] Well, he's a Georgia fan.

[1567] A dog's.

[1568] Because of me. Of course.

[1569] And Neil.

[1570] Right.

[1571] Oh, that's been a whole thing.

[1572] Uh -oh.

[1573] What happened now?

[1574] Neil.

[1575] Well, I feel bad.

[1576] Oh, because Neil's not coming.

[1577] Yeah.

[1578] But I bought him a one.

[1579] Oh.

[1580] You should be proud of me for that.

[1581] Hold on, no. Hold on.

[1582] So he's going to be somewhere else in the stadium.

[1583] Yeah, I had to buy him a ticket.

[1584] Just him.

[1585] You got to buy him two tickets.

[1586] Tax, it's $800.

[1587] No, I'm not doing that.

[1588] He's going to go sit by himself?

[1589] He's friends.

[1590] What are the odds that they're going to be able to secure seats directly next to him?

[1591] I don't.

[1592] I can't.

[1593] Neil.

[1594] Call me Neil.

[1595] Are you asking him to call you?

[1596] Yeah.

[1597] And I'm going to buy him a second ticket.

[1598] Absolutely not.

[1599] No. I'm going to buy him nine tickets.

[1600] Fuck.

[1601] You.

[1602] I'm going to break the bank on Neil.

[1603] Absolutely not.

[1604] him, you know what, I'm going to buy him 12 tickets, so he's one more friend than you have there.

[1605] Right at the 50 yard line.

[1606] I invited him to the tailgate and I'm buying him a fucking ticket.

[1607] Oh, good.

[1608] So he'll be at the tailgate, wonderful.

[1609] And you'll ride together, hopefully.

[1610] No, I'm staying old.

[1611] Okay, so you'll both leave your mom's house at the same time?

[1612] No, okay.

[1613] I'm staying at that.

[1614] I bought Airbnb for my friends and I. Okay.

[1615] And are you going to buy him a parking ticket, a parking pass?

[1616] He doesn't need that.

[1617] How's he going to get to this tailgate party?

[1618] He walks.

[1619] Neil?

[1620] He'll Uber.

[1621] Actually, we do have a parking spot that he could park in if he needs to.

[1622] Okay, great.

[1623] Are you renting a car or your friends will have cars?

[1624] I'm going to take my mom's car.

[1625] Okay.

[1626] What's Neil driving?

[1627] He has his own car.

[1628] He lives there.

[1629] Of course, of course, of course.

[1630] You're so worried about it.

[1631] No, here's what happened.

[1632] I stupidly was like, oh, he's still borrowing your parents' car.

[1633] But of course, he has his own car.

[1634] Of course, he has his own car.

[1635] That my parents gave them.

[1636] Well, listen, your parents gave you your car, too.

[1637] Yeah, they did.

[1638] Well, go get them.

[1639] Sick them, Neil.

[1640] Sick them in traffic.

[1641] Roll tied.

[1642] Now, when the notion, though, that you took your mom's car and then Neil drove your dad's car because you guys can't carpool there was funny that your parents would have no cars while you two are at this game separately.

[1643] But that's not the case.

[1644] No, that's not the case.

[1645] You're not going to lie.

[1646] I'm so afraid that you're going to really blow your gas gas at this.

[1647] But I got to say it.

[1648] You still have never bought a car in your life.

[1649] I know, but that's your fault.

[1650] I know.

[1651] I'm just saying.

[1652] I knew you were going to say that.

[1653] I'm just saying you live in a glass house.

[1654] You can't really say anything about Neil.

[1655] That's not fair.

[1656] I'm going to buy one today just to spite you.

[1657] Just so I can't, because I do feel guilty about that.

[1658] Well, about what?

[1659] I do.

[1660] You never bought a car?

[1661] Sometimes when I look at that car, I'm like, oh, no, that car gives you angst.

[1662] Well, a little that I didn't buy it.

[1663] No, well, gosh, I would hope that car would remind you that I love you.

[1664] Well, it does.

[1665] Both things happen.

[1666] Okay.

[1667] It's bittersweet.

[1668] I'm so I'm grateful and I'm like, this is such a beautiful gift.

[1669] And also, how can I be this age and not have a car?

[1670] It's just, it's not bad.

[1671] It's just a unique thing.

[1672] All my dads want to buy me cars.

[1673] Yes, your dad's buy you cars.

[1674] That's what we're here to do.

[1675] I'm paying it forward.

[1676] I'm lending out that bad Prius to everyone.

[1677] I know.

[1678] In fact, I think that thing needs new shocks.

[1679] No, no, I just took it in for service.

[1680] Oh.

[1681] Oh, okay.

[1682] Well, Amy arrived in it the other day.

[1683] Yeah.

[1684] And that's yours, right?

[1685] Yeah.

[1686] And that motherfucker was riding low.

[1687] Now, granted, they had about five kids in there, but still look, it looks suspiciously low.

[1688] It's also, how old's that car?

[1689] It's going to be 12 years old now, 10 years old?

[1690] 10, probably.

[1691] Yeah, it might be time for new shocks.

[1692] No, 15, then 15.

[1693] Oh.

[1694] Well, then it shouldn't need.

[1695] Well, at any rate, shocks are very cheap.

[1696] Shocks are about $100 a corner.

[1697] I'm having trouble, though, because, okay, my friend took it to get service.

[1698] and she's like, it's going to be $3 ,000.

[1699] No. And I was like, absolutely not.

[1700] That car is not worth that.

[1701] I'm so proud of myself because normally I would be like, yeah, whatever.

[1702] And I was like, no, no, no. I just want a regular service.

[1703] And then, of course, then it was $250.

[1704] Fuck those motherfuck.

[1705] What were they saying was on the list?

[1706] There's a huge list.

[1707] I need to send me that list.

[1708] And I'm going to call this fucking Toyota dealer.

[1709] No, they do this.

[1710] And they do this to women.

[1711] Pisses me off.

[1712] I can't tell you because I'm the resident person who knows about cars in a friendship group that maybe on the outer ring is like 60 people.

[1713] So you be shocked how frequently I get a text saying, hey, I just got this.

[1714] I'm not surprised.

[1715] It's weekly.

[1716] And honestly, when it's women, it's like it's 5, 6x what it should be.

[1717] And it makes me furious.

[1718] Yeah, that is bad.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] All this like, well, you're such and such.

[1721] What are you talking about?

[1722] Either it goes bad or it doesn't.

[1723] you don't preemptively change your transmission like what the fuck are they talking you know just crazy stuff I don't know about that so that's like maybe shocks were on the list you've got to send me that list I'm fucking chomping at the bit to call them don't no don't call them I'm gonna act like I'm a show when I call this is Monica's father oh good I thought you were I really expected an accent to come out there your dad doesn't even have that your dad has an accent but it's not the accent you see paraded I think because he's been here for so long.

[1724] It's like a pigeon.

[1725] It's like his own mix of it.

[1726] Yeah, because also he lives with a woman who doesn't have an accent.

[1727] Who has a hillbilly accent.

[1728] Right.

[1729] I can do hers all day long.

[1730] Yeah, you're allowed to do that.

[1731] But shocks.

[1732] Could you drive with Neil?

[1733] We're not going to have any cars when you guys take up.

[1734] No, mom, I can't ride with him.

[1735] Why?

[1736] I'm staying in two nights.

[1737] Do you have a lot of luggage?

[1738] I'm staying there for two nights.

[1739] Right.

[1740] Bring your brother Neil with you.

[1741] He's not allowed to stay.

[1742] We'd love to have the break.

[1743] Neil, call your Uncle Dax.

[1744] I'm getting you 12 tickets.

[1745] Stop.

[1746] He's not.

[1747] You're not his uncle.

[1748] Of course I am.

[1749] If I'm, well, no, that doesn't make.

[1750] You're his dad.

[1751] Oh, God.

[1752] I don't want to take on Neil's a son.

[1753] I'll take him on as a nephew.

[1754] This is an Indian thing.

[1755] Uncle, like anyone older is an uncle.

[1756] I'm willing to be Neil's uncle.

[1757] Here's your two options of people.

[1758] False dichotomy coming at you.

[1759] one person got a 4 .0, got out of school in three years.

[1760] Four.

[1761] Isn't it?

[1762] I'm not talking about you.

[1763] Oh.

[1764] No, no. You're not, unfortunately, in this equation, in this false dichotomy.

[1765] One person got a 4 .0.

[1766] You didn't get a 4 .0.

[1767] 3 .999.

[1768] I had one B. Okay.

[1769] And it was an 89 .9.

[1770] Okay.

[1771] She went and roll up.

[1772] You did so good.

[1773] You don't even need to push it.

[1774] But I, but I. This isn't about you.

[1775] This is another.

[1776] person so this person is type a they got a 4 .0 they graduated in three years and they're an entitled prick okay and then there's neal just gently ho -huming his way through the experience probably had more memories than anyone had a great time now who deserves free tickets to the game more the 4 .0 trick entitled prick that dude or neal who's donated to the school No, neither Neither Yeah They both took what they wanted Neil wanted a fun Extended experience The other guy wanted the credentials So he could get on with his Personal Injuries Lawyer practice I think he deserves it Because he's thriving Okay All right No no I don't I don't know This is silly Also I just remembered I do I think I graduate Graduated with a 4 .2 you mean high school you did not graduate college i didn't i didn't graduate high school with a four oh you can't get extra in college yeah because there's a this listen if they're running fucking university of georgia like a high school that's crazy there's no reason to adjust up above a 4 .0 unless you're in a high you know i can answer this for you there's no you can't answer i have to ask my mom they can't be giving out more than a 4 .0 for an a but there's a plus that doesn't mean anything.

[1777] And a minus.

[1778] Yeah, they're all different.

[1779] Okay, but the way you get above four point, oh, is if you've taken an AP class in high school.

[1780] It's a college accredited class, which makes sense that shouldn't be.

[1781] Because you get 10 extra points.

[1782] That's why.

[1783] Yes.

[1784] But college, we don't do, we don't go above four.

[1785] It says you can get up to a five point now in college.

[1786] See?

[1787] Oh my God.

[1788] Where fake college university?

[1789] No. There's multiple sources.

[1790] Yeah, this is adding We're now saying that an A is worth five points.

[1791] No, it's not.

[1792] It's an A, a regular A, it's like 90 to 92 was an A minus.

[1793] Those all need asterisks like the baseball home run records in the error of steroids.

[1794] Because you can't compare my grade point when the ceiling was 4 .0 to someone else's grade point today when the ceiling's five.

[1795] Okay, but we're not talking about yours.

[1796] I'm just saying it needs an asterisk.

[1797] Well, this is like the SATs.

[1798] The SATs score is completely different now than it was when we took it.

[1799] It is?

[1800] Yeah, they have a writing portion.

[1801] The score is like out of 8, like 20 something.

[1802] Oh, okay.

[1803] It's not 1 ,600 anymore.

[1804] Yeah, so if it's out of 2 ,400 and someone says, I got a 1 ,600, we need an asterisk.

[1805] Well, that's not the same.

[1806] When that was a perfect score.

[1807] Yes.

[1808] Yeah.

[1809] I wish I got a perfect score so bad.

[1810] You do.

[1811] So bad.

[1812] I didn't even get close.

[1813] I, do you know, I think I may have told you this story.

[1814] I did better in junior high than I did in my senior year.

[1815] The PSAT?

[1816] No. I was in these gifted classes in junior high when I was still a good student and on the math team and stuff.

[1817] So I was a part of a group of kids who had tested high enough on the Michigan aptitude test to be brought in to take my SATs, real SATs.

[1818] Really?

[1819] Yes.

[1820] But you hadn't even learned all that math yet.

[1821] I did it.

[1822] I don't know what the score.

[1823] I can't remember what the score was.

[1824] If it were sensational, of course, I would have committed it to memory.

[1825] Right.

[1826] It doesn't matter.

[1827] When I then took it again in my senior year, it was, I got less than I had in eighth grade.

[1828] That's weird.

[1829] Yeah.

[1830] To me, it just goes to show I really didn't give a fuck at that point.

[1831] Right.

[1832] I should have, by all, predictions, gotten better over the next four years.

[1833] And I got worse.

[1834] You'd think.

[1835] You'd think.

[1836] I got worse.

[1837] This is a ding, ding, ding, ding for Constance.

[1838] because you went to college.

[1839] Did she?

[1840] Can't remember.

[1841] Me either.

[1842] I really liked Constance.

[1843] Let me just say that.

[1844] I went into it with a chip on my shoulder, which I said in the thing.

[1845] Oh, about the...

[1846] Yeah, I was, like, kind of triggered.

[1847] I was one of the people kind of going like, fucking boo -hoo, you're going year six on a TV show.

[1848] But obviously, I didn't know the whole story.

[1849] Yeah.

[1850] And, yes, sometimes people are bummed with great fortune.

[1851] And I guess what's funny is I'm the one always trying to point out.

[1852] It's just a story and it's a fantasy while going through it.

[1853] It isn't necessarily what you thought you wanted.

[1854] Yeah.

[1855] So can you just show up to the L .A. Marathon?

[1856] No. You do have to register.

[1857] I asked Charlie.

[1858] He said, you have to register.

[1859] People do show up and crash it.

[1860] But if you don't have a registered bib on, they kick you out, especially near the finish line.

[1861] They're strict about it.

[1862] Mm. But I will say what's still relevant is you have to qualify.

[1863] qualify for other marathons.

[1864] You can't just register.

[1865] L .A. Marathon, you and I can just register.

[1866] Right, but you said you, yeah.

[1867] Anyone could just show up.

[1868] Yeah, yeah.

[1869] Additionally, just so happens.

[1870] Like Ashton will have just run in the New York Marathon.

[1871] Oh, wow.

[1872] And he had the goal for a while of if he runs a certain pace in that marathon, he can run the Boston Marathon.

[1873] Right.

[1874] But Boston Marathon is really exclusive.

[1875] You have to have a really good time.

[1876] I didn't know that.

[1877] I thought anyone could just register.

[1878] Right.

[1879] Go for a run.

[1880] And then I asked, did he drink beer?

[1881] He said there were two people from my old gym that brought me beer along the way that I chugged maybe at mile 14 and 18.

[1882] But there are also just random cheer stations that give out all kinds of stuff.

[1883] Hot dogs, pizza, beers, fruit.

[1884] And he said they aren't official, though.

[1885] It's just people from the community that are handing all those things out.

[1886] I want to register just to go on a fucking pizza hot dog crawl in the city.

[1887] I would love that.

[1888] They need a good pair of shoes that are scooters.

[1889] Oh, wow.

[1890] So there's the soul's pretty thick.

[1891] But mind you, a lot of these new Nikes, the sole is already three, four inches thick.

[1892] You could pack in the batteries and then you need little wheels.

[1893] Like little rollerblades.

[1894] Like the robot.

[1895] Oh.

[1896] Yeah, exactly like the robot.

[1897] So I would love to cheat, to register and then just kind of like act like I'm.

[1898] I've moved my shoulders and my arms a lot.

[1899] But then my feet would just have eight little wheels that were taking me along.

[1900] And then I'd stop.

[1901] Can I get my those hot dogs?

[1902] Could I get a mustard and ketchup and onions?

[1903] Oh, my God.

[1904] I don't know how I'm going to eat this.

[1905] And then as soon as I pull away on, and I know I'm not at all winded.

[1906] And I'm like, hmm, this is going to.

[1907] All that per free hot sauce.

[1908] I know.

[1909] It's weird.

[1910] I'm going to buy.

[1911] It sounds like 12 tickets I've promised, Neil.

[1912] That is $10 ,000 worth of tickets.

[1913] Yep.

[1914] And yet I'll go to any length for a free hunt on.

[1915] Yeah.

[1916] Do you guys have a gluten free bonds?

[1917] Oh, God.

[1918] It's going to be a whole show I put on.

[1919] Wow.

[1920] Okay, is Save the Last Dance based on Juilliard?

[1921] Yes.

[1922] It is.

[1923] Fame is based on LaGuardia High School.

[1924] Oh.

[1925] Oh, I wanted to play Quick Clip.

[1926] Oh, clips are fun.

[1927] It's going to happen fast, so.

[1928] You see.

[1929] Quick clip.

[1930] Her pussy gets so wet.

[1931] You can't believe it.

[1932] Her pussy gets so wet.

[1933] You can't believe it.

[1934] Her pussy gets so wet.

[1935] You can't believe it.

[1936] This is 10 minutes on repeat.

[1937] But also a little tiny fact, I felt like when you were describing it.

[1938] He was crying.

[1939] Yeah.

[1940] I remember him as crying.

[1941] I think the conversation starts with him a mess.

[1942] Oh.

[1943] Because his wife has found out.

[1944] Right.

[1945] And then now we're into what led him there, I guess.

[1946] Yeah, sure.

[1947] You can't believe it.

[1948] But again, that's a startling sentence to hear in a movie that's kind of homing along as a high school movie.

[1949] Yes.

[1950] I like those pop -outs.

[1951] Yeah, they're fun.

[1952] They take you out.

[1953] Okay.

[1954] Now, I looked up because we talked about representation in Hollywood, who's the least represented.

[1955] It says the most underrepresented groups in all job categories.

[1956] But this is from the 2021 Hollywood Diversity Report.

[1957] Okay.

[1958] Okay.

[1959] The most underrepresented groups in all job categories, relative to their presence in the U .S. are Latino, Asian, and Native actors, directors, and writers.

[1960] Okay.

[1961] Indians, not underrepresented.

[1962] Asians.

[1963] Well, come on, guys.

[1964] What are we talking about here?

[1965] Oh, my God.

[1966] And what we're talking about here?

[1967] Oh, you were, you was lumping, uh, you was lumping, uh, you was lumping Indians in with the Asians.

[1968] Okay.

[1969] All right.

[1970] Okay, yeah, you can do it that way.

[1971] Who are you being?

[1972] I'm like a guy from New York sitting in front of the corner store and I'm just telling like, hey, you guys check out this new 2021, uh, you guys, Hollywood Reporter, Inclusivity article.

[1973] It's good.

[1974] It's good.

[1975] I do have one objection, though.

[1976] They put Indians in with the Asians.

[1977] The Asians, that's what they did.

[1978] So they included the Indians and with that.

[1979] You know, there's a subcontinent.

[1980] They're like a different, you know.

[1981] Oh, God.

[1982] It's fine.

[1983] You know, it's good.

[1984] Wow.

[1985] Okay, you're back.

[1986] Did you like that?

[1987] I looked that way, though.

[1988] Didn't help.

[1989] I don't know.

[1990] It added a news.

[1991] Another area of embarrassment Because that's what it is Right, it's contagious embarrassment Because you You were imagining how you would feel doing what I'm doing You'd be Over your dead body Can I just go back to the robot?

[1992] No, I have to have other characters than just the robot Why?

[1993] Like this one Did you guys read the Hollywood Reporter 2021 inclusivity?

[1994] You know what I loved?

[1995] They put Indians in with A R!

[1996] They're Asian!

[1997] Oh my God.

[1998] I have been to Asia.

[1999] Not India.

[2000] Oh my God.

[2001] That's the thing.

[2002] No, whatever.

[2003] Someone would say, have you been to Asia?

[2004] And then if the person said, yeah, I went to India, they'd go, no, I would have asked if you've been to India.

[2005] No. Okay.

[2006] No. No, definitely not.

[2007] If I asked someone, have you been to Asia?

[2008] And they said, yeah, India.

[2009] I'd be like, no, I mean, have you been to China, Japan?

[2010] No, that's so stupid.

[2011] Then say, have you been to China?

[2012] Have you been to Japan?

[2013] If you say, have you been to Asia, that's the continent.

[2014] Yes, you have if you've been to India.

[2015] As have you been if you've been to Sri Lanka.

[2016] I want the Pacific Rim.

[2017] But then you have to say that.

[2018] You can't just make it all a general thing.

[2019] Great.

[2020] Lesson learned.

[2021] I'm growing.

[2022] I'll now ask you if you've ever been to the Pacific Rim.

[2023] But I also want to know if you've been into Interior China.

[2024] Ask that.

[2025] Okay.

[2026] Have you been to the Pacific Run slash Interior China slash Northern Mongolia?

[2027] Exactly.

[2028] Who was that guy?

[2029] The Hollywood reporter?

[2030] Yeah.

[2031] This is like a guy.

[2032] He is?

[2033] Yeah.

[2034] Where are you from?

[2035] Hollywood.

[2036] Oh.

[2037] Yeah.

[2038] I guess it's vali -ish.

[2039] It sounds gay.

[2040] Oh, okay.

[2041] You can't say people sound gay.

[2042] You're a homophob.

[2043] Did you read the 2020 Hollywood reporter, Homophobia report?

[2044] That said straight people are gay I don't include straight people in gay When I ask someone if you're gay I don't mean ask if you're straight Oh so it's not the Hollywood reporter You know I was trying to do When I found out my character was Thackeray And I said how does he talk?

[2045] I want to talk like him And they said old timey And I go oh someone he's like I'm a cat, Shane And they were like, no, no, no. It's more like, oh, I came over here.

[2046] Now I want to do this.

[2047] And then I was talking like him and I realized I sounded like CP3PO.

[2048] Is that the right thing?

[2049] C3PO.

[2050] C3PO.

[2051] And for a minute I could do C3PO.

[2052] Oh, what is going on here?

[2053] I'm a cat named Thackeray.

[2054] Oh, what child are D?

[2055] Oh, that's how he talked.

[2056] I guess.

[2057] It's not good now.

[2058] But at the time, I realized, oh, I've stumbled into C3PO.

[2059] Interesting.

[2060] Okay.

[2061] How do you know that you did, though, because you don't know C3Pia?

[2062] I do.

[2063] Oh, you do?

[2064] I don't know his name.

[2065] Oh.

[2066] It's the dyslexia.

[2067] There's numbers, there's letters.

[2068] Fuck that.

[2069] That one's crazy.

[2070] I can't get R2D2.

[2071] Yeah?

[2072] Yeah.

[2073] R2D2, right?

[2074] Yeah.

[2075] What'd you say?

[2076] RtD2.

[2077] Oh, this is fine.

[2078] But, yeah, if you make, if you throw numbers in.

[2079] No one, Star Wars fans won't care.

[2080] There are very many of them.

[2081] They're super casual about their love for Star Wars.

[2082] But if you mix numbers and letters, I'm going to have a row about that.

[2083] That's too much.

[2084] For most of us.

[2085] Okay All right On to the next thing That's pretty much it That was I'm going to see her boyfriend Play music tomorrow Who's her boyfriend?

[2086] He's in this band called Man Man Man that I like What do you think Man Man means Rob They're like a grunty Tribally type band God I wish you were gonna say It's four women That would have been a nice Switcheroo That would have been Switcherini It's like cavemanee I don't There's a band called Caveman also Oh, you can rest assured.

[2087] There's a name for every band.

[2088] Yeah.

[2089] My favorite, if you recall, this is probably season one that I said this.

[2090] Oh.

[2091] There was a Salt Lake City punk band called Athlete's Butt.

[2092] Wow.

[2093] Like Athlete's Foot.

[2094] Right.

[2095] What a clever name, Athlete's But.

[2096] Well, they're definitely doing Carolina moustaches.

[2097] Yeah.

[2098] Athletes' boys.

[2099] Well, no, I think they're doing sloppy Joe's.

[2100] Because to catch Athlete's butt, you'd have to rub your butt up against another.

[2101] Not unlike you have to get your feet touching the athlete's foot.

[2102] Wait, you don't think you could get it from...

[2103] Carolina mustache?

[2104] Yeah.

[2105] Well, how would it get to your own butt?

[2106] Well, you touch your mouth after you ate your poop.

[2107] No, hold on the side, always.

[2108] What are you talking about?

[2109] Sauce on the side.

[2110] It's optional.

[2111] Yeah, first of all, is optional.

[2112] Second of all, sauce on the side.

[2113] So was it just eating someone's ass?

[2114] Yeah, but with a big bushy mustache, so it tickle, on your crack.

[2115] Right.

[2116] From a specific region.

[2117] Wait, what do you mean?

[2118] There was a region that the mustache was from.

[2119] Oh, okay.

[2120] Monica.

[2121] Yeah.

[2122] What were we talking about?

[2123] Carolina Mustad.

[2124] Eating poop.

[2125] Man, man. No, yeah, athlete's butt.

[2126] Okay, great.

[2127] So athlete's foot is a fungus.

[2128] Of course.

[2129] I know this.

[2130] Yeah.

[2131] So it's not like you ingest the fungus and then it pops up on your feet.

[2132] It doesn't travel throughout your body.

[2133] It's contact -based.

[2134] Right.

[2135] So you'd have to make contact with your own butt to catch athletes' butt.

[2136] I know.

[2137] So you do a Carolina mustache.

[2138] You perform a Carolina mustache.

[2139] In a three -way with one gentleman performing both Carolina mustachees, yes, the athlete's butt could be transferred from one of the recipients to the other recipients.

[2140] But also, what if you just touch your mustache?

[2141] You're like wiping off your mustache and then you scratch your butt.

[2142] That could, I guess, could happen.

[2143] Yeah.

[2144] You hear about these three mooks?

[2145] all ended up with athletes butt they're having a threesome one guy's got athletes butt nobody knows okay he didn't tell nobody next thing you know two days later the one guy he starts scratching what the fuck is this goes to the doctor guys like well you got athletes butt how the fuck did this happen okay and that's what happened how much did I earn in this episode like how many tokens that I earned because you've done a lot A lot of voices today.

[2146] I have.

[2147] I'm in a voicing mood.

[2148] I know.

[2149] Oh, I know.

[2150] Anyone you haven't heard that you want to hear?

[2151] Anything in the dust off?

[2152] How about?

[2153] Is this a Carolina mustache party?

[2154] I cannot participate.

[2155] I have no butchings.

[2156] Is this a Carolina mustache party?

[2157] Oh, that's cute.

[2158] I can put on this fake mustache and perform Carolina moustaches for you.

[2159] Also, Carolina.

[2160] I am a pervious to athletes, but, so worry not.

[2161] Okay.

[2162] I know part of the reason I don't like it.

[2163] What part?

[2164] Are the voices or?

[2165] Yeah, voices.

[2166] Okay.

[2167] I love the robot.

[2168] But I just realized part of it is sometimes I try to talk in the middle and it gets.

[2169] I don't make room.

[2170] Correct.

[2171] Okay, great.

[2172] Let's try it.

[2173] Okay.

[2174] Oh, my God.

[2175] Did you hear Mike has athletes butt?

[2176] Oh.

[2177] He.

[2178] That was good That was a good practice That's your interruption Oh Well Yeah We got a workshop that a little bit right I was just practicing Interrupting you Okay Do you even know Where a Carolina mustache comes from It's like a Coal Miner's thing Turns out Are you dumb Is that it?

[2179] Dumb?

[2180] Yeah that was it The UMB Oh Oh, hold on.

[2181] The Sunset Tower Hotel's calling.

[2182] Can I have to answer?

[2183] Oh, my God.

[2184] For six people.

[2185] I'm gonna fucking eat at 6 o 'clock.

[2186] Okay, let me check.

[2187] And can I check with everyone and then I'll call you right back?

[2188] Okay.

[2189] Thank you.

[2190] Hey, Tom.

[2191] Donnie, you listen to this.

[2192] I just got off the phone with Sunset Tower.

[2193] They want us to come in like a bunch of Jibonis at 6 o 'clock.

[2194] Who's fucking hungry at 6 o 'clock?

[2195] Who my fucking have a lunch at 9 a .m.?

[2196] Good.

[2197] Oh, my God.

[2198] I told me, I'll take the reservation tomorrow while I'll fucking lunch at night.

[2199] You should bring a copy of that 2021 Hollywood Reporter.

[2200] It's not Hollywood Reporter.

[2201] What is it?

[2202] Hollywood Magazine.

[2203] 2021 Hollywood Diversity Report.

[2204] I guess they put out of...

[2205] Oh, report.

[2206] What are we bringing it to?

[2207] To dinner tonight at 6 o 'clock.

[2208] Oh, yeah.

[2209] You should get hard copies of it so you guys can cover your faces.

[2210] So no one sees you there at that early of a reservation.

[2211] Oh, I love it.

[2212] I wish it was at four.

[2213] I like to linger, but I like to be home by seven.

[2214] This is the problem, you know?

[2215] Okay, hold on.

[2216] One more I just realized.

[2217] She said it takes three weeks to form a habit and three months to form an attachment.

[2218] And that is a thing.

[2219] People call it the 2190 rule.

[2220] Commit to a personal or professional goal for 21 straight days.

[2221] After three weeks, the pursuit of that goal should have become a habit.

[2222] Once you've established that habit, you continue to do it for another 90 days.

[2223] additionally another night So really we're talking 111 days Or 21 was time served So now you you owe 69 more days You continue to do it for another 90 days Oh my God So this is really the 112 principle That's if it's a daily thing Because what if it's like once a week I want to not eat meat?

[2224] No it's 21 straight days So I think it's you can't do once a week It seems probably actually kind of makes sense It's probably why if you're doing, like, no meat once a week, why no one sticks to that.

[2225] Yeah.

[2226] Well, that's my thing, as you know.

[2227] It's way easier for me to abstain from something entirely than to moderate it.

[2228] Yeah.

[2229] Like, I can't have gluten once a week or I'll just, you know.

[2230] Then you'll just eat it.

[2231] Yeah, I'll eat it all the time.

[2232] Yeah.

[2233] I'll eat it on Sunday and go, oh, I'll eat it tomorrow, start of Monday, and I'll sacrifice next.

[2234] You know.

[2235] I know.

[2236] I'm just making deals with the D. Yeah, with my D. All right, love you.

[2237] Love you.

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