Sara Gilbert

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome.

[1] Unarmchair expert, I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Minuture Mouse.

[3] Hello.

[4] And best friend here weekly.

[5] Whoa, whoa.

[6] Today, we have Sarah Gilbert on.

[7] We had a great conversation with Sarah.

[8] Of course, Sarah is an American actress director and producer, and you first met her on Roseanne, back when she was a wee child, and you've come to love her on the talk, the Big Bang Theory, and currently on the Conners, which returns October 21st.

[9] on ABC.

[10] So please enjoy Sarah Gilbert.

[11] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[12] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[13] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[14] He's an armchair expert.

[15] He's an option extra.

[16] Oh my gosh, I think I recognize where you're at.

[17] Are you at Radford?

[18] I know you're jealous of the couch.

[19] Yes, I'm at Radford.

[20] Yeah, there's something about the tiled ceiling and the junction with the column.

[21] Like, it's unmistakably Radford.

[22] It is.

[23] And, you know, it's funny.

[24] My dressing room I had here for years, I totally did because I was there for so many years.

[25] On the talk or on a show?

[26] On the talk.

[27] Uh -huh.

[28] And it was hard to leave.

[29] When you have a good dress room, it becomes like your little cocoon.

[30] I notice this as being a very consistent male -female difference on sets.

[31] Like I'll go into Lauren Graham's trailer and it's in Eden.

[32] It's like a spa in there.

[33] And then again, I go over to Monica Potter's.

[34] Same thing.

[35] Going to Peters, there's like a bag of peanuts on the table as his decoration and same.

[36] Maybe I have one picture of my daughters.

[37] For me, it's like anything I bring there, I'm going to have to cart out at some point and just knowing that keeps me from doing anything.

[38] No, I'm totally like that.

[39] And it's only because it was a job that was like 40 -something weeks a year for nine years.

[40] So you really start to go like, this is ridiculous after a few years.

[41] You're there all year, you know?

[42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[43] Did you go as so far as to paint the previous talk office?

[44] It was extreme.

[45] Seagrass wallpaper?

[46] There was like one wall that had wallpaper.

[47] and then there was painted dark, the rest of the walls.

[48] You know, the tiles in the ceiling, I made them wood.

[49] Oh, wow.

[50] I always think about that in terms of the White House.

[51] Like, how many coats of paint are on the walls there?

[52] Because every four years or eight years, you get a totally different aesthetic coming through.

[53] Right.

[54] I feel like they probably have, like, the paint deck you're allowed to use, and there's, like, four colors.

[55] Yeah.

[56] Well, this is kind of a roll reversal for us, which I really like.

[57] Yeah.

[58] Yeah.

[59] Yeah.

[60] Your history is way more interesting than I ever knew, which is not to say I was assuming it wasn't, but your grandfather created the honeymooners.

[61] That's so exciting, I guess.

[62] Is that common knowledge?

[63] I did not know that.

[64] I don't know if it's common knowledge.

[65] I mean, no, probably people aren't tracking that so much.

[66] But yeah, it is, I mean, it's cool.

[67] And it's the kind of thing when you're a kid and you hear it, you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool, whatever.

[68] And then as you get older, you really grow to appreciate how significant.

[69] It is.

[70] Well, yeah, and as you enter the business, I'm sure, too, you recognize like, well, it's really, I love Lucy, the honeymooners, cheers, you know, Seinfeld.

[71] I mean, it's literally one of five historic, you know, it's a citizen cane of sitcom.

[72] I guess I also feel like a special connection to it because it's a working class sitcom.

[73] I heard a story where he had done a segment with Jackie Gleason of it on Jackie Gleason's variety show, I think.

[74] And he had said to Jackie, we should make this a show.

[75] And Jackie was like, you know, no one will care about this.

[76] These are just the people from our neighborhood, you know.

[77] And he was like, no, that's why people will care about it.

[78] So I just feel proud of my grandfather in a way, I guess, that he was connected to this idea of tapping into the working class and representing them on television.

[79] He was also kind of flawed in a way that I don't think, until Roseanne came on when I was a kid, it was mostly like, you know, the Cosby Show, he was a perfect person, Silver Spoons, the dad was, everyone was perfect.

[80] So there's also some weird shared DNA there that the lead character was like, not evolved, we'll say.

[81] Yeah, it was just like that you got to be like real people and see real people.

[82] So that was nice.

[83] Yeah, I think the 80s was like we were coming out of a tradition of feel good television, which, you know, there's nothing wrong with it.

[84] I certainly watched my share of Silver Spoons.

[85] But I think then people were hungry for, okay, what's the next step in this evolution of television?

[86] Yeah, and here's another fun thing I learned about you.

[87] I was born exactly 27 days before you.

[88] Whoa.

[89] Oh, so you're like almost a New Year's baby.

[90] You're January 2nd?

[91] Yes, ma 'am.

[92] I missed it by an hour and a half.

[93] Is that frustrating for you or good?

[94] My father was furious because had I been born 36 hours before he would have been able to deduct me on his 1974 tax returns.

[95] And this is something he lamented about pretty often.

[96] But couldn't he deduct you on his 1975 tax returns?

[97] Yes.

[98] But again, he just, he would have loved that deduction the year before as well.

[99] Right.

[100] Yeah.

[101] In his mind, he lost out on a few grand by the 36 hours.

[102] Yeah.

[103] I see.

[104] I missed it.

[105] But when you turned 18, he got a few extra one or whatever.

[106] He got it on the back end.

[107] Yeah.

[108] That's a good way to look at it.

[109] Although he no longer was in a position to use me as a deductible.

[110] But yes, in theory, that would have come out in the wash had he not left at three.

[111] Yeah.

[112] I don't mean to laugh.

[113] No, you should.

[114] So I have a nosy question, but I'm just very curious.

[115] So you grew up in Santa Monica.

[116] I was born in Santa Monica, but I grew up in the Valley.

[117] Now, a show like the honeymooners that had been still syndicated, I assume.

[118] It's on somewhere.

[119] and one of probably the most syndicated shows of all time, was that kind of like a generational wealth?

[120] Like, were people able to just be economically independent because of that show?

[121] No. They weren't.

[122] Okay.

[123] No. I think it was, like, structured also really differently back then.

[124] I mean, my grandfather was certainly fine and he did all right and made his way through life.

[125] But, you know, I think, like, the studios really, like, got their...

[126] The lion share.

[127] Exactly, exactly.

[128] I mean, I think business people always seem to make out a little better than creative people, but back then it was probably more pronounced.

[129] Well, also, now that I'm thinking about it, there probably wasn't even a concept of syndication yet.

[130] So there's nothing to even, oh, you know what I want, should you ever resell this a thousand times, I want X amount, that wouldn't even be, it's kind of like the merchandising pre -Star Wars.

[131] No one would have even thought that there would be billions of dollars of toys coming out of movie.

[132] Right.

[133] So I think like the business people just own it all when it starts out.

[134] I mean, I'm not very informed on the subject, but that's kind of my guess.

[135] Yeah.

[136] Although I do believe that's why Lucy and Arnaz.

[137] Desi Arnaz.

[138] They owned that whole show, those two.

[139] They were ballbusters.

[140] They were.

[141] I mean, they started like the first independent studio.

[142] Yeah.

[143] Multi -cam.

[144] And I mean, they were really like forward thinkers.

[145] Yeah.

[146] Another fun thing, Everyone knows this but me because I said it to Monica.

[147] I said, do you know her brother and sister were like the stars of Little House in the Prairie?

[148] And she goes, yeah.

[149] Melissa?

[150] Yeah, yeah.

[151] Everyone knows that.

[152] But I am curious, they're older than you, I imagine, right?

[153] Yes.

[154] So were you kind of watching them do that?

[155] And did it appeal to you?

[156] And if so, what aspect of it appealed to you?

[157] Oh, it definitely appealed to me. And I mean, I've told this story before, so forgive me anybody who's heard it.

[158] But probably people aren't reading my press that closely.

[159] They did, like, a remake of the miracle worker in between filming Little House.

[160] And for Christmas, all these gifts came for my family, like, that was involved and not for me, obviously.

[161] And they also got wells because of, like, the well in, you know, that, like, so they were, like, mock -up recreations, but life -size.

[162] And I was just like, this is the coolest thing ever.

[163] and how do I get in on a well with a plaque with my name on it?

[164] Oh, yes.

[165] Obviously, I still don't have that because I haven't done my version of the miracle worker.

[166] Make space.

[167] We've got a great fabricator.

[168] It's going to be made out of styrofoam, but it'll look good.

[169] What you think is cool when you're a kid, whereas now, if I had a life -size well with a plaque, I'd be like, where do I put this thing?

[170] Yes, of course.

[171] You'd be so embarrassed when people came over and they're like, oh, cool, you still have your wealth.

[172] Oh, okay.

[173] That's great.

[174] Yeah, I guess when I was that age, if someone had sent my brother a free dirt bike, whatever thing he had been involved with, I would have sprinted towards to get that.

[175] So that would be my equivalent.

[176] Exactly.

[177] So I was like, I've got to get in on this show business thing.

[178] You got work in commercials and all kinds of stuff prior to getting cast on Roseanne when you were 13.

[179] Were you feeling like it was going well or were you measuring yourself against your brother and sister who were.

[180] on a hit show?

[181] No. I mean, I actually, I did it for a few years, and then I was realizing it was hard to do gymnastics or ice skating or all this other stuff that I wanted to do.

[182] So I quit for a couple of years, like around 11.

[183] I stopped.

[184] And then I was like, wait, I really missed that.

[185] And that is the most important thing to me. And I went back to it around 13.

[186] But at that age, I feel like the measuring and the low self -suffer, esteem comes later in life.

[187] That's probably true.

[188] It's starting around that, right?

[189] Like junior highs where you really start going, am I a terrible outcast or what?

[190] Yeah, that's true.

[191] But I had booked the show by the time I was in like eighth grade.

[192] So then I kind of felt like, okay, I'm doing okay at this.

[193] And I think also there's just the naivete that, you know, now if I was lucky enough to get a new show, I would be so scared that it was going to fail or will anybody like it and no one's going to watch this and all the negative tapes running.

[194] Whereas like a kid, I was like, this is great.

[195] This is going to be a huge hit.

[196] I've, you know, made it.

[197] It's a very misleading first experience, by the way.

[198] I constantly think of people who's like their first thing is like this smash hit.

[199] It's so rare and yet it had to be bad info to make all your.

[200] It's such bad Intel.

[201] Yeah.

[202] Usually people see nothing and it's impossible to book the thing you want to get.

[203] And, yeah, it's for sure bad intel.

[204] I am curious.

[205] Did you immediately do school on set?

[206] Yes.

[207] I did school on set.

[208] And it was great because I was better at school on set than not on set.

[209] I had a teacher that helped me focus and learn and figure out how to study, essentially.

[210] Yeah, like without that in your life, do you think your trajectory would have been Yale?

[211] No way, no way.

[212] It's my teacher, Sharon, and actually I got her to come on and teach the kids on these few seasons.

[213] Oh, really?

[214] Yeah, because she's just the best teacher ever.

[215] It's special, too, right, to have someone in your life that's known you since you're 13?

[216] Yeah.

[217] I mean, there's so many people here like that that I am connected to.

[218] Yeah.

[219] Yeah.

[220] And now I'm going to ask you a couple of questions that I know you can't answer, but I'm going to ask them anyways.

[221] And the reason I know you can't answer them is because what would you be comparing it to?

[222] But from our point of view, the notion of being on the number one show in America at 13 or 14, and clearly you go to malls and you go to Burger King or whatever you do, I'm going to ask what that was like.

[223] But of course, that was just your life.

[224] So I'm sure you don't have some crazy perspective.

[225] But I am just curious at that age.

[226] I'm trying to imagine if that amount of attention would have scared me or if I would have loved it.

[227] I'm inclined to think I would have probably loved it and exploited it.

[228] I know at the beginning I had this feeling like it would be successful and I felt like I was supposed to be on a successful show.

[229] It's all sort of like narcissistic, grandiose sort of young thinking, right?

[230] Yeah, sure.

[231] And so as it was happening, I was kind of like, okay, well, this is what I had planned, you know.

[232] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[233] absurd and like ridiculous and would never happen to me as an adult.

[234] So I think I took it in stride at the beginning and it's also what I knew from my siblings.

[235] Right.

[236] Yeah, that's helpful.

[237] Yeah.

[238] And then as I moved along in it, I would say like later teen years, 16, 17, then I think it was a little more challenging because you have a weird, I mean, this probably happens anyway, but I think when you're forming, it's a little more strange, your personal life versus your public life.

[239] And so I would feel very like do a show.

[240] Everyone's amped up.

[241] They're screaming.

[242] They're clapping.

[243] They're laughing.

[244] You're pumped.

[245] Cut the night's over.

[246] You get in your car.

[247] It's quiet.

[248] It's a little bit lonely feeling.

[249] You're just a teenager that's awkward, that's navigating.

[250] You drive home.

[251] So, I mean, that dichotomy, I think, is a little challenging for a teenager.

[252] Oh, okay.

[253] Two things.

[254] I love that you admitted what you just did because similarly, when people started recognizing me, I wasn't like, oh, this is crazy.

[255] I was like, finally.

[256] Well, look, if we didn't think we might succeed in it, this is for everybody.

[257] They wouldn't try to do it.

[258] So there's some part of everybody that's trying to do it that does believe it can happen.

[259] Yeah, you have to.

[260] I had never done a sitcom.

[261] I did a sitcom for the first time two years ago.

[262] I joined this show The Ranch, and I had not had that experience.

[263] The live audience, they go, they think you're Chris Rock.

[264] It's like the most surreal experience.

[265] Right.

[266] I know I'm not nearly as funny as that audience thought I was.

[267] And I was 43 at the time.

[268] I had to start walking home from Netflix because if I just drove home and got into my house...

[269] Too fast.

[270] Yeah, it was too fast.

[271] And so I started either walking home or riding my bike home so that I could kind of just lower back to earth before I walked in my door and acted crazy to me. my family.

[272] Totally.

[273] When we do live tapings, I mean, we're not doing them this year for obvious reasons, but getting home, like, well, first of all, I stay and, like, have a glass of wine or something with a couple of my friends on the show.

[274] So that's, like, an hour or two.

[275] And then I get home, and it's still, like, another hour to take a bath, like TV.

[276] I mean, even though I'm so tired, there's definitely not a normal night of sleep that night.

[277] Yeah.

[278] I mean, I imagine there's some people that don't have that.

[279] But look, I think that's why Broadway runs the way it does.

[280] Like, those actors are up all night sleeping through the day.

[281] Yeah.

[282] It's great if you're, like, predisposed to be kind of bipolar, which I think I am.

[283] Like, I'm either at a 20 or a two, you know.

[284] It's probably, like, funny because actors are, I imagine, pretty sensitive overall because they're people that, like, can or want to play in their emotions.

[285] And then you're putting them in this, like, heightened crazy situation.

[286] There's nothing like a sitcom experience.

[287] I mean, literally, I've never done it.

[288] I've done improv live.

[289] I've done.

[290] Well, plays.

[291] Yeah, but the laughter, the contagious laughter.

[292] And yeah, I guess a funny play, but if you're in a dramatic play, I can't even imagine you feel that crazy explosion.

[293] Right.

[294] Of approval.

[295] It's like vocal approval.

[296] They can't withhold it.

[297] Agree.

[298] Tasty, dangerous, and wonderful.

[299] Now, okay.

[300] And now there's another thing I found out.

[301] about you that I was very excited about, is that in the fourth season, you wrote an episode, and you would have only been 17 at that point, I imagine, 16, 17, 18.

[302] And I wonder, already at that moment, did you think, oh, I want to be involved in a lot more ways than just saying it?

[303] Yeah, I did feel that way, but I really can't take credit for writing that episode.

[304] I mean, it was like, I was really learning, and they were like, okay, what if the story's this?

[305] And, you know, I mean, I really didn't write the episode.

[306] Let's just be honest about it.

[307] And that's fine, because that's not even what's interesting to me about it.

[308] It's just that you are already deciding at that point that early on, oh, I'd like to be involved in other areas of this thing.

[309] For sure.

[310] I mean, I think that probably happens to most people, right?

[311] And especially, like, the longer you're doing it, I think it's also just like a survival mechanism in Hollywood because you can't bank on one thing because it's, like, hard.

[312] to stay alive out here sometimes.

[313] Well, great.

[314] So that's kind of my follow -up question because there's a lot of different reasons one would want to do that.

[315] I'm a control freak.

[316] And I kind of want as much control over every moment of my day as I can have.

[317] And I just saw all that as a road to like, oh, I could actually be saying the lines I already wanted to say.

[318] And I could be picking the shots I already want to, you know.

[319] I agree.

[320] I don't see it as control the creative expression, you know, like wanting to create or, but it's probably my more positive way of spinning control.

[321] But I actually find, like, I was motivated to, like, let's say, create or try new things and branch out.

[322] But now that I've had the opportunity and I've felt the amount of creative control you get, it's very hard to go on set and not have it.

[323] Oh, big time.

[324] Yeah.

[325] I spent four years just directing and writing and then went back to acting.

[326] And two things.

[327] One, I was like, oh, I have no say in any of this.

[328] but also, oh, none of this is my problem, which was very nice as a break.

[329] That part's nice, but you'll see a big mistake and you're like, oh, I did.

[330] I saw them all the time.

[331] I'm like, oh, they did not do a reverse of that.

[332] Oh, they're not like, they're going to be fucked in the edit for that.

[333] And then I was just like, oh, not my problem.

[334] Right.

[335] That kind of felt really nice to not have it all be your problem all the time.

[336] Like the actual job of standing on a mark and saying lines is quite easy.

[337] It's so easy compared to the other job.

[338] It is.

[339] It is.

[340] Now, how do you decide in the midst of all that to go to Yale?

[341] Because I imagine initially when you decided that you're like, well, I will have to leave the show to do this.

[342] Yeah.

[343] I mean, I ended up being able to do the show like part time.

[344] So I'd fly back and forth.

[345] But I'd give my mom a lot of credit because she probably just made it like a non -negotiable.

[346] And even though I graduated when I was 17, but I took a year off.

[347] So by the time I went to school, I would have been 18 and it really was just my choice.

[348] But I think, think at that age you really do listen to your parents a lot and she just she really did make it like okay which school are you going to wow because it would have been very tempting to go well these things in the best case scenario i'm going to go seven years so why don't you just get some damn money for the next three years then go to college what's the big deal you start at 21 instead of 18 that's a pragmatic argument it is i mean and look i took a year off because i felt like i wanted to just have a year where i worked and didn't have to work and go to school But my mom convinced me that if you take that many years off, you're never going to go back.

[349] And it's kind of like developmentally, you want to be somewhat in the same space.

[350] And I started school a year young.

[351] So by taking off a year, it just kind of put me at the same age as everybody else.

[352] And so, you know, it worked.

[353] I mean, I'm grateful for it.

[354] I'm wondering, like, is it helpful to show up at Yale and everyone sees you on TV?

[355] Or is it like you just feel so self -conscious?

[356] Well, I was a little bit, I guess, uncertain what it was going to be like, and I was aware, like, will this be different?

[357] And then I got there, and I just remember meeting people on the first day.

[358] And, you know, one kid would be like, well, I played Carnegie Mellon when I was 12.

[359] And, you know, like, these people were so phenomenal that I started to just even be like, oh, I'm just on this sitcom, you know.

[360] Right, right.

[361] Yeah, there's a grand chess master there.

[362] Yeah, exactly.

[363] It was kind of like I was such a small fry in the world of accomplishments there.

[364] You know, I would say the only time that really changed was when I was a senior.

[365] I think the freshmen, I could feel like some of the freshmen had watched the show.

[366] And maybe it was just because they weren't exactly my peers.

[367] They weren't shy about saying something.

[368] Yeah.

[369] But when it was my class, no. Well, there's something about it.

[370] If it's your peer and I have to recognize you, there's something about, that action that makes you vulnerable.

[371] It kind of gives you status, so people maybe would be inclined to not, whereas if you're four years younger, you already have the status, so there's nothing to lose, you know?

[372] Exactly, exactly.

[373] That's kind of how I took it as well.

[374] But definitely, I mean, I, you know, people were like curing diseases and building spaceships, you know, it was like, what was your major?

[375] Art. Art. And photography.

[376] Well, I was a fine art major, so photography was part of it.

[377] Okay, okay.

[378] Now, I'm friends with some of the people that were deeply involved in that whole show.

[379] Tom Warner did a movie I was in.

[380] I became friends with him.

[381] I love him.

[382] Tom Arnold, I know very well.

[383] Very chaotic set.

[384] Just historically, the first nine years, very, very chaotic.

[385] I wonder being in a kind of formative age, you know, 13 to 19 or 20, whatever it was, seeing that much conflict, did it make you more adverse to conflict or very comfortable with conflict?

[386] You know, I didn't see that much conflict because I would say we were pretty protected from it.

[387] It was really like with the writers, producers, you know, it wasn't something that I was so involved in.

[388] Uh -huh.

[389] I like to seek out conflict for unknown reasons, but it's not.

[390] Not that.

[391] Okay.

[392] I'm hardwired for conflict because there was a ton of it in my childhood and I'm just used to it.

[393] It doesn't bother me too much for better or worse.

[394] It bothers me and I try to avoid it and I find it I must subconsciously like, you know, create it sometimes in my life.

[395] Yeah.

[396] And can I ask just in that first run, who were you closest to?

[397] Like who did you have a real beautiful connection to?

[398] Well, Lisi and I were basically the same age, even though we were playing a couple years apart.

[399] And so we were best friends.

[400] And, you know, we obviously were the only people going through that exact experience.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Her and her mom stayed in my guest house when they first moved out and we would watch the show every week and get frozen yogurt.

[403] Like there was something wholesome about, yeah, there was something that we made wholesome about the whole thing.

[404] country's best yogurt?

[405] It was Humphreys, I think.

[406] Oh, damn it.

[407] No, yeah, we used to go to Pagliacci's for lunch.

[408] I think that's gone, and then it was Humphreys yogurt.

[409] Because I think TCBY was the, like, raining yogurt champion at that time.

[410] Well, Humphreys was cool because you could put your own toppings in it.

[411] So I would basically, I wasn't vegan at the time.

[412] I was vegetarian, so I'd basically pack as much cholesterol as I possibly could into one yogurt flavor.

[413] So it was like peanut butter, cream cheese, banana yogurt.

[414] cream cream cream you know whatever i'm not getting chocolate the nice slice of melted swiss on top yeah it was it was intense no and we'd watch wonder years was our lead -in so we'd watch that and then we'd watch our show it was cute it was like a sweet ritual yeah yeah yeah did you have like crushes on other actors and then get to see them at up fronts and stuff i did i mean i remember like having a crush on an actor as a kid i mean this is kind of like a wild story there was this actor, Corky Nemek.

[415] I don't know if you remember him, Corin Nemek.

[416] What show is it?

[417] I can't remember what show he was on.

[418] But I had a big crush on him.

[419] We were supposed to go to some like network part or some big Hollywood party and he was going to be there.

[420] And I mean, look, he was like a few years older than me and it's like liking the like prom king when you're the seventh grade dork, you know?

[421] But I was just excited about seeing him at this party.

[422] And I was doing a scene with Lisi and we had a pillow fight.

[423] and the crew, they let it go on after the scene was over, and they were cheering us on.

[424] And Lisi went to hit me with the pillow, and her elbow hit me in the mouth.

[425] And I felt my front teeth go back in my mouth, and my legs buckled.

[426] Like, you know, when your legs buckle and suddenly you're on the floor, and you're like, how did I make it to the floor?

[427] And why aren't my teeth in the right place?

[428] Like, something's wrong in my mouth, you know, just the pure shock.

[429] I went to my dressing room, and I was like, you know, had like a bloody mouth, not to be gross.

[430] And I could see that my teeth were sticking back.

[431] And it was like four or five o 'clock.

[432] And we had to shoot a show the next day.

[433] This was like either a rehearsal or pre -tape or whatever.

[434] And there were no dentists open, but there was like a periodontas, like a gum dentist, whatever.

[435] And I'm like, fine, let's just go there.

[436] And we went there and he was like, look, you got to like wear braces and slowly move these teeth back over like six months.

[437] if you want a chance for them to live.

[438] And I was like, I don't know about you, but I'm shooting a show tomorrow and I'm not going on TV with like teeth sticking straight back.

[439] Like there's no way.

[440] Yeah.

[441] Or conversely, a big set of braces you didn't have in the previous scene.

[442] Exactly, which is problematic, but probably not as problematic as like the grotesque.

[443] No front teeth, like sticking back crazy.

[444] I mean, crazy situation I had going on.

[445] So I said, no, you've got to, like, pull the teeth back, even if they die or whatever.

[446] So he pulled the teeth back into place.

[447] Oh, how did that feel?

[448] I'm sure he numbed the area, but I do remember that I had to wear, like, he's like, put this gauze behind your teeth and basically bite on it all night so that the teeth stay where they're supposed to stay.

[449] Oh, my goodness.

[450] This is like a story you would only hear from a hockey player.

[451] Yeah.

[452] And that's horrible.

[453] And then I went home.

[454] The long story short is I couldn't go find Korky Nemek.

[455] Oh, okay.

[456] I do wonder, and I'm going to tell Monica's thing, which she's told here, so I'm not talking out of school, but Monica had an interesting experience in high school where she didn't think any of the boys liked her.

[457] Well, they didn't.

[458] I disagree, but whatever.

[459] I'll tell you her story.

[460] No boys liked her.

[461] So her trick was to like people that were so blatantly out of.

[462] of her league, whether they were older or they were the football star.

[463] It was subconsciously, but intentionally, picking people that it could not ever be a possibility so that she wouldn't have to...

[464] So that couldn't really get rejected by them, really.

[465] Right, because if they don't like you, you're like, well, I pick Brad Pitt, so obviously.

[466] Right.

[467] Yeah.

[468] So I'm just curious, at this point, you're probably aware that you're a lesbian and are you maybe picking people so it seems like, oh, yeah, I like guys too.

[469] I like this guy that is never going to like me, so I don't have to ever confront it, but I'm expressing I like a guy.

[470] Do you think any of that was going on?

[471] No, I genuinely liked him.

[472] Yeah, I genuinely had a crush on him.

[473] Okay, great.

[474] I was wrong.

[475] He makes lots of theories here.

[476] I'm open.

[477] I'm open to any theories.

[478] I make theories based solely on her life experience or mine.

[479] I've now learned to project through her.

[480] I've always knew how to project through myself, but now I know how to try to do it through Monica.

[481] I love a good theory.

[482] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[483] What's up, guys?

[484] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[485] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[486] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[487] And I don't mean just friends.

[488] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kelle Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[489] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[490] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[491] We've all been there.

[492] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[493] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[494] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery, like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[495] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[496] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[497] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[498] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[499] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[500] Now, once college ended and the show ends, now you're old enough and you're savvy enough, is it occurred to you at that point, wow, I was on kind of a get hit by lightning, happens once a generation thing, or was it kind of a rude awakening when it ended?

[501] Well, it was a rude awakening not because of the success, but because my life changed so much.

[502] all at once.

[503] I finished the show.

[504] I finished college and I got out of a relationship all within two, three months and it would have been like a four -year relationship.

[505] So it was like my life looked one way and then my life looked like someone else's life.

[506] And so I was kind of freaked out and being in your 20s is hard enough, but like to have all your anchors go away and I was living in my own place.

[507] And then I had a roommate that I was like really close with And then at some point, he started getting successful and he moved into his own place.

[508] So then he was gone and his girlfriend and all that community.

[509] So I think it was just like very difficult to go from being connected to all these institutions, anchors, relationships and have that fall away.

[510] And you're like, wow, who am I?

[511] Yeah, all the pillars of your identity just vanish.

[512] Yeah, exactly.

[513] And I guess we don't realize how much the things we do and the people were attached to, find our identity until they disappear?

[514] Well, I would argue you only learn to anchor your identity in something substantive by learning the hard way that those other things just go away.

[515] I mean, I think that's how you learn to try to drill into, oh, I'm actually a good friend.

[516] I'm a great mom.

[517] That's true.

[518] That's true.

[519] Because, like, now when things fall away, it's a little different.

[520] Like, I feel like my identity's a little more established on its own.

[521] Oh, me too, me too.

[522] You know, if you asked me who I was 10 years ago, actor would have been the first thing I said.

[523] It would have been before a bunch of other things.

[524] No, totally.

[525] And then you get to a point where you're like, oh, I don't actually have to act to be a person.

[526] Like, it's so much of your identity.

[527] Like, this is what I must do.

[528] Yeah.

[529] Now, you certainly work.

[530] You work for the next 10 years.

[531] You're on ER.

[532] You're on a lot of stuff.

[533] But 10 years goes by before you're on Big Bang, which again, what are the odds that you'd end up on like two of the, five biggest shows of 20 years is just kind of statistically improbable.

[534] In that period, those 10 years were you ever like evaluating, oh, maybe I want to do something else?

[535] What were you going through in that period before you found then constant employment and creating shows and all this stuff?

[536] I was working a lot right at the beginning and doing a bunch like indie movies and then I did a pilot.

[537] And when that pilot didn't get picked up, I was super disappointed.

[538] I felt like I hit a bit of a lull.

[539] I felt like the industry.

[540] was like, oh, we gambled on the Sarah Gilbert series and that didn't get picked up and now she's had her shot.

[541] You know, that was kind of like the mentality.

[542] So I was working here or there, but I definitely have stretches where I wasn't working and I would start thinking like, should I do something else?

[543] And probably that led me to create opportunities for myself more.

[544] I think it's like, you know, if you're not the drop dead ingenue lead, it's a little bit more difficult sometimes.

[545] And even I'll read scripts now from a producer standpoint.

[546] And I'm like, yeah, I can see why sometimes I'm not their go -to pick because I'm quirkier and a little more offbeat.

[547] And people tend to classify to make things easier in their mind.

[548] And if you don't fall into a certain type, it's just like, okay, that's not right.

[549] Yeah.

[550] You're trying to build the architecture to be so clear and easy to understand that then you can spend your energy on whatever creative thing you want, you know, in another area almost.

[551] It's like, I'm almost sympathetic to it.

[552] I too had that same thing where it's like I got three big shots on movies and then that kind of was like, all right, well, those were your three up at bats.

[553] And I was like, okay, oh yeah, I write.

[554] I've been writing the whole time.

[555] I'm just going to start writing.

[556] And then writing led to another thing.

[557] And then all of a sudden I'm, you know, I'm in a meeting about something I've written and they're also putting together this show, parenthood.

[558] And they're like, you should do this.

[559] And I'm like, great.

[560] But I think from a lot of people, either they get to that point and you're so aware of the fact that you have no control over it.

[561] You're just waiting for someone to like you.

[562] And I think that either crushes people or it turns them into creators.

[563] Yeah, you have to find your way.

[564] Another ambition of mine is just like, okay, keep getting better so that you're undeniable.

[565] Sometimes I'll watch 10 auditions.

[566] And when you're watching the 10 best, they're pretty decent.

[567] You're not all that different.

[568] And then once in a while, you'll see one that's like, whoa, that is undeniable that we have to hire that person.

[569] You're so right.

[570] But it's like, how do I get myself to there?

[571] Yeah.

[572] Okay.

[573] Now, what gave you the idea to create the talk?

[574] You are a tremendous actor, but I don't think up until then I saw you as someone who was dying to be living out loud in public.

[575] Does that make sense?

[576] Yeah.

[577] I mean, I definitely wasn't.

[578] was such a weird departure.

[579] I was literally in the bathtub and I was like thinking and I was like, huh, why isn't there a talk show for women that are like moms or girlfriends or just talking to each other about normal everyday stuff that I talked to my friends about?

[580] So that's kind of where it came out of and it had started where everybody on the panel were moms, you know, because I'd been in this mom group and I saw how these friendships evolved.

[581] So it wasn't necessarily just supposed to be about parenting, but just about like friendship and community and connection, essentially.

[582] And when I brought it to sell, I was on the fence and I had said to them, look, you guys are probably going to buy this because I'm not sure I want to do it.

[583] You know, I was like so scared to be out there that I almost took it as like a spiritual test.

[584] Like can I put myself out there and talk and, you know, slowly found my comfort zone.

[585] But I was definitely never the one that was revealing the most.

[586] Right.

[587] It's the most ideal way to sell something when you almost hope it doesn't get bought, right?

[588] That's like the best position you can be in.

[589] Yeah, because you're not feeling desperate and they probably sense it, you know.

[590] Normally, I'm like, please take my firstborn.

[591] Oh, I can do it with that.

[592] Oh, you want an accent?

[593] Oh, you shaved head?

[594] Yeah.

[595] Right.

[596] Now, once you had the like major producerial duties on that show, I have to assume that it would only be smart to construct it in a way where you're going to have much different points of view from the host, different, hopefully contradictory points of views so that it can drive story and drama and that.

[597] Am I right to assume that that's got to be one of the ingredients?

[598] I think it wasn't so much about like varying points of view as it was about different personality types.

[599] You know, so like because it's, It's like the show is never political, so it wasn't like, oh, I need somebody who's very conservative and very liberal and moderate and blah, blah, but it was kind of like, oh, this person is really outgoing and funny and gregarious, whatever.

[600] And then this person is more thoughtful and, you know, depressed.

[601] When you're putting that group together, is it hard to manage the personalities?

[602] I felt like the show was pretty much mostly a dream.

[603] Like, I thought everybody got along really well and it was a very easy place to work.

[604] I think that made it hard to leave.

[605] Well, I've been on that show several times.

[606] I don't know how many, but yeah, I've always felt when I went there that there was no, like, tension in the air or anything.

[607] Right.

[608] And it's a good vibe, right?

[609] Like, you go and it's easy and.

[610] Very easy.

[611] I mean, you can tell the truth.

[612] I mean, I'm backing you into saying this, but.

[613] No, no, no. No, no. The only weird thing that ever happened on that show, which had nothing to do with you guys, it was like, I was on and then I'll not say who, but some other person was on.

[614] And that person had some skincare line or something.

[615] And then their representative came to my green room and dropped this huge basket of stuff.

[616] And I was just being polite.

[617] I don't want skincare stuff.

[618] I'm like, oh, yeah, that's great.

[619] I'll have that.

[620] And then, like, 15 minutes later, someone comes over and wants me to fill out like a tax form because they're going to write that off as some $3 ,000.

[621] gift to me of skin care.

[622] And I was like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is crazy.

[623] Now I got to be rude.

[624] I don't want the skin care.

[625] Just take that back.

[626] And this is all before I go out there, right?

[627] So I'm just like, how did I get myself in this pickle where I was afraid to say I don't want it?

[628] And now of a sudden they have a tax form for me to fill out.

[629] What just happened?

[630] But that had nothing to do with the show.

[631] Oh, yeah, that was probably, like, any time they do like a big TV giveaway, so probably the show was giving it to the long.

[632] whole audience.

[633] And so they probably were giving it to all the guests as well.

[634] And then everybody who gets over a certain amount gets a tax form.

[635] So it's kind of like standard.

[636] It didn't come from the other guests, I'm sure.

[637] I think it's like standard kind of like everybody who gets this.

[638] Yeah.

[639] I just was like, I got to now get this form to my accountant so that I now can declare this $3 ,000 worth of skin care for women.

[640] I don't want.

[641] It was great.

[642] That's funny.

[643] I've had that.

[644] No, I've had that before where I'm like, you can keep this like bullflex or what I mean.

[645] Look, we're so lucky, right, that people give us stuff.

[646] But then if they want to charge you and it's not something you can use, you know, it's like.

[647] Yeah, it's just one of those many times or it was like, you know, my instinct was to say, oh, thanks but no thanks, but I didn't want to be awkward.

[648] And then all of a sudden I had, then I had to get really awkward because I didn't just had it off at the past.

[649] But yeah, I know I never had any problem, never on the show.

[650] It's always, always fun.

[651] I love it.

[652] Good.

[653] How did you get the idea to bring Roseanne back?

[654] John Goodman came on the talk show and we did like a recreation of a little scene from the show, like a little parody.

[655] Uh -huh.

[656] And when we did it, it just felt so right.

[657] And I mean, I went back to my dressing room and I literally like was crying.

[658] Like it's so weird to say, but I was like, oh my God, I'm so moved by that.

[659] and I so miss doing it.

[660] And it felt like the right time in the country.

[661] Like it didn't feel like doing it just for the sake of doing it.

[662] It felt like it was synchronicity on a lot of levels.

[663] And I always thought that none of the cast wanted to do it.

[664] And then I first I talked to Tom Marcy and got their blessing.

[665] And then I started reaching out to the cast.

[666] And people were like, yeah, when?

[667] I'll be there.

[668] No kidding.

[669] Okay.

[670] So it comes back.

[671] It's enormous.

[672] I mean, even I've got to imagine.

[673] in your best case scenario.

[674] I mean, the ratings were, they had not been seen in like 20 years.

[675] It was just so enormous.

[676] I remember I went to work that day and just every set in Hollywood was talking about, oh my God, did you see how big that was?

[677] Like, it was just like a Super Bowl.

[678] Yeah.

[679] You have stick -toedness or something.

[680] You have fortitude.

[681] You figure out how to move through that and keep the thing you love alive.

[682] What made you not give up on?

[683] it.

[684] How do you see it through to become the Connors, which is also a hit show?

[685] We followed you all the last year and you were enormous.

[686] How did you just not quit or not give up on that?

[687] I think it just became the less painful option.

[688] I think everybody was so heartbroken and, you know, we felt like our audience wanted to see more stories and we wanted to tell more stories and wanted to keep our crew together and having a place to go to work.

[689] And so I don't think it was an easy decision for anybody, but I just think that it became the one that made the most sense.

[690] Is it at all rewarding self -esteem -wise to know that the little girl on the show is the one who grew up and kept it all together?

[691] I think you should feel really cool about that.

[692] I don't really take any credit for this show, honestly.

[693] I think it has a life of its.

[694] and I'm lucky to be a part of it and feel like I was sort of handed this like pot of gold of amazing people that came together, stories that came from Roseanne's life, the cast.

[695] You know, there are so many things that lined up that I don't know, it's very hard to like take any credit for or feel responsible if that makes sense.

[696] It makes total sense.

[697] I can see why you would say that, but I can also tell you that if I get a call from Savannah Pays, who was seven years old on parenthood and she ends up putting together this whole show and it's not Peter Krauser or Craig T. Nelson or Lauren Graham.

[698] That's something.

[699] It's very cool.

[700] I think it's fucking cool.

[701] So I'm glad you're modest, but the facts is the facts.

[702] You called everyone and you did it.

[703] What is it do you think that makes the show so successful?

[704] I think people probably connect to like a real life quality to it in terms of our economic struggle and these imperfect characters and no one's trying to win a beauty pageant.

[705] You know, it's kind of like hopefully people turn it on and they just see regular looking Americans that are trying to show what it's like to get by.

[706] And I think there's a lot of humor, obviously, and a lot of love in the family.

[707] I feel like people sense that we really love each other and that maybe is part of it too.

[708] And there's probably some nostalgia too, seeing where everybody is now.

[709] Yeah, well, there is an X factor in cast, which I'm sure you've experienced a bunch of times, which is like sometimes there's magic and sometimes there's not.

[710] Like, again, sorry to keep bringing it back to parenthood, but we just genuinely love the shit out of each other.

[711] Like so much.

[712] We're so happy to go to work and who am I going to be in a scene with today?

[713] Oh my God, it's great.

[714] I haven't seen May in forever.

[715] Yay, me and May get to play all day to day.

[716] Like, there was such joy in interacting with one another that it's palpable, I think.

[717] Yeah, it is.

[718] I mean, and I've had that also before, conversely, and then you think it's great, and you watch it, and you're like, oh, well, it didn't translate it on screen, you know?

[719] A thousand percent.

[720] But again, it's all kind of just magic.

[721] You can't really design it.

[722] You just got to hope something lucky happens in some way.

[723] Okay, I just want to spend a couple minutes because I've got to meet him several times, and I just have this enormous affinity for him.

[724] But is John Goodman the greatest guy on the planet?

[725] I mean, John's incredible.

[726] I just study John and Lori, too, for, like, how they take a scene apart, how they put it back together, what they're doing.

[727] You know, John's a serious guy.

[728] He's not probably what people picture.

[729] He's very serious, but very polite, very hard on himself, so he really wants to get it right.

[730] Yeah.

[731] But, yeah, an incredible person to the core, for sure.

[732] Yeah.

[733] And the life is fantastic, isn't it?

[734] The short two years I did a sitcom, I just was like, this is heaven.

[735] I get to go play and I get to go home and I get to be a parent.

[736] And it's just, it's pretty lovely, isn't it?

[737] But I guess because you're producing, you're probably there a lot longer than everyone else.

[738] No, it is a great schedule.

[739] And I have such an amazing team of people I work with that make my load lighter.

[740] And especially right now when people can.

[741] can't go anywhere or see anybody, you know, that we're in this opportunity where people are figuring out a way to do a lot of testing and make it as safe as possible to come someplace.

[742] I just am so grateful.

[743] And also just as you're watching the world, the older I get, I'm just grateful to be alive.

[744] Yeah.

[745] Would it be fair to say that one of the appeals of your show is that you have these characters on it that span the whole political spectrum and yet everyone loves each other, that that's a message that, like, we are all very much longing for.

[746] I hope that people feel that way.

[747] I mean, I definitely felt like when the show came back together, I was hoping that we would strike a chord with we don't have to be so divided because we believe different things.

[748] But can we find some common ground because we love each other?

[749] Yeah.

[750] I think that's part of the secret recipe that has made it so successful.

[751] I really do.

[752] I think it's like something a great deal of us wish for.

[753] I'll just speak for myself.

[754] I wish for it so much.

[755] I mean, I think almost everybody, no matter what you believe, no one wants to feel like we're in this relationship with the other side that feels bad.

[756] Yeah, my analogy is like, hey, guess what?

[757] We're married.

[758] No one's going to secede from the union.

[759] We're going to be married for life.

[760] So do we want to have a fucking terrible marriage?

[761] Yeah.

[762] We're in a strained marriage right now, you know, and it's like, what are the?

[763] paths to understand each other instead of just like, okay, here's my story that I'm sticking to.

[764] That I'm shouting at you.

[765] Yeah.

[766] How can I try to understand and get our stories more on the same page somehow?

[767] Did you watch Social Dilemma?

[768] About the internet and all that?

[769] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[770] I did.

[771] I watched like half of it.

[772] I need to finish the other half.

[773] You know, sometimes when it's in your house, you're like, oh, okay, I'm getting tired, but I'm coming back to it.

[774] And I was trying to make one of kids watch it, too.

[775] and just as a cautionary thing and they were like, you know, got to go do TikTok, see you later.

[776] Yeah, I think when we watched it and we're like, oh yeah, we think we're really smart and we have to admit we're not nearly as smart as an algorithm and they're just leading us down a path, man. They are.

[777] And every time I click something, I know it and I'm like, oh, but I just want to click it anyway.

[778] Yeah.

[779] Well, Sarah, I love you.

[780] I've always enjoyed coming on the talk and getting to hang out with you for a minute.

[781] You're a good egg.

[782] Oh, thank you.

[783] Yeah, really quick.

[784] What do you think post -Connor's?

[785] You'll just continue to probably create.

[786] Do you like that process?

[787] You'll create more things and produce more things?

[788] I'm excited to produce more things and working on it now and maybe time to start writing, maybe with a partner or I'm not sure or direct.

[789] I mean, there's like so much that I want to do.

[790] I want to act more for sure and more diverse.

[791] diverse projects, like try to find different things.

[792] And, you know, hopefully I'll get the opportunity to do that.

[793] Well, you'll make your opportunity.

[794] I hope so.

[795] But yeah, and I think you're so awesome.

[796] I love you too.

[797] And I really, this is such a great podcast.

[798] What a fun, fun hour.

[799] Thank you.

[800] All right.

[801] When is Connor's premiere?

[802] We premiere Wednesday, October 21st.

[803] It's a new night.

[804] So we were on Tuesdays.

[805] So get ready.

[806] Big change Wednesday night.

[807] Will you be debuting with a Halloween episode?

[808] We're not debuting with a Halloween episode, but the following week, it's so interesting because of COVID, nobody knew when they were going to air.

[809] So we didn't, and the networks were like, don't basically make holiday -specific episodes because we don't know what's going to happen or where things are going to be.

[810] Right.

[811] But now that we know we are putting together an episode that deals with Halloween, because It's a very different Halloween for most people.

[812] So we want to address that.

[813] And then also it'll be a few days before the election.

[814] It's October 28th, I believe that is this episode.

[815] So some tension, divisions in the family sort of related to the election.

[816] In your career, you must have filmed yours is much longer than mine.

[817] And I think I've been a part of like five Halloween episodes.

[818] And they're always the funnest episodes you can ever shoot, aren't they?

[819] Or maybe they're not for you.

[820] I mean, I'm not like a huge.

[821] huge look and it is like the legacy of the show to do these big Halloween episodes and stunts and whatever and I am sort of more in the like what's the saddest story we can tell like even though it's a comedy that's like my sensibility so whenever there's like a huge stunt with blood squirting and someone's head coming up it's not like right in my wheelhouse but I've learned to appreciate it if that makes sense but I'm kind of like yeah how can we we, like, deal with major tragedy.

[822] Right, right.

[823] I like it because I'm way too lazy to come up with a great costume.

[824] So the fact that there's a costume department that made me look like evil Knieve.

[825] I was like, I always wanted to put together the costume this good.

[826] That's my satisfaction with it.

[827] It's like, it's unbelievable.

[828] Like, we always laugh that, like, the Conners have spent, like, three years of paychecks on Halloween.

[829] It's the one time when we don't really try to stay in reality of what they could afford or, you know.

[830] I think I'm just not a costumes person.

[831] in my own life.

[832] I don't like attention in that particular way.

[833] So I feel, even if they make me a great costume, I feel embarrassed walking out, you know.

[834] Oh, that's good.

[835] All right.

[836] Well, Sarah, we love you.

[837] And October 21st, everyone watched the Conners and then prep yourself because there is a Halloween episode coming.

[838] So we all have something to look forward to.

[839] There is.

[840] All right.

[841] Talk to you later.

[842] Bye.

[843] Bye.

[844] chair expert, if you dare.

[845] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[846] Hi.

[847] Hi.

[848] Our boyfriend's back.

[849] Yes, he is.

[850] Back by popular demand.

[851] Thank you guys.

[852] Thank you guys.

[853] You two are the best in the biz.

[854] There was so many sweet comments about Aaron.

[855] People were pumped about JBJ, as you would expect.

[856] Sure.

[857] But a lot of people were even more excited about Best Friend Aaron Weekly.

[858] Someone trademarked it, which I like.

[859] What does that mean?

[860] Like they wrote Best Friend Aaron Weekly trademark.

[861] Oh.

[862] Like it's been copyrighted.

[863] People are fun.

[864] Our Armature is a real fun.

[865] They are.

[866] Speaking of them, many of them asked why there wasn't a fact check last week.

[867] Oh, right, right, right.

[868] There was when we recorded one.

[869] And we had a big debate.

[870] And it was about politics.

[871] I was of the opinion.

[872] The episode was political enough.

[873] and that not everything has to have politics in it.

[874] There should be places that you don't hear about that.

[875] If you've come for another reason and you have a very solid opinion, which is it's existential and you want to express your opinion.

[876] Yeah.

[877] Did I sum it up fairly?

[878] Sure.

[879] Okay.

[880] So we cut it.

[881] So there is no back check.

[882] Well, additionally, people were coming in and out of Monica's apartment with a fecundity I'd never seen.

[883] There was a lot of knocks at the door.

[884] There was a lot of grocery, drop -offs.

[885] Some food.

[886] Someone from L -A -D -W -P.

[887] That was the real pop -out because you opened the door expecting to see someone holding some chowder.

[888] That's right.

[889] And there was a man in full uniform.

[890] And I got immediately scared because I was thinking, what a great disguise.

[891] Who's not going to let the L -A -W -D -P, L -A -D -W -P into their house to check the meter?

[892] Do you want to hear a sad story?

[893] What?

[894] This is taking a dark turn for real, but it just reminded me because we had Sarah Borellis on, who did the music for Waitress.

[895] The writer of Waitress was murdered in her house by a situation like this.

[896] Like someone came to the door like the plumber.

[897] Okay.

[898] And they murdered her.

[899] I know.

[900] I know.

[901] Oh, yeah, y 'all.

[902] Well.

[903] It's really sad.

[904] Happy Halloween, everybody.

[905] Well, no. Something spelling?

[906] Yeah.

[907] Oh, thank goodness.

[908] Okay, I'm going to take that accidental Diet Coke spillage to just jump genres for one second.

[909] Great.

[910] Off topic.

[911] So Delta, who's now going to be a sponsor?

[912] Not your daughter.

[913] Not my daughter, although she's also a sponsor, the Water Fawcett Company.

[914] Yes.

[915] I think broadly you could call it more than that.

[916] Is that too limiting, Erin?

[917] You're in, you've done some maintenance in your life.

[918] Yeah, I've seen the Delta everything when it comes to fixtures.

[919] Sure.

[920] Okay, so I don't want to limit them to faucets But they sent a super cool faucet By the way, I've had this idea before I've grown so accustomed to my kitchen sink faucet That you can pull the handle You know, you can pull the spout off And then move it around It's got a hose inside And then you can get every corner of your sink Which is so helpful.

[921] Now, in my bathroom, I'm in there for an extra six minutes When I shave, there's little beard hairs All over the sink And I got to splash it with my hand like a caveman or like when you drop your toothpaste in there and you have to use your finger to get it I hate that yeah and so you're splashing and there's water going everywhere and some of the beard hairs are splashing out well they have this faucet the Cairo pull down faucet and you can pull it like the kitchen sink one that's awesome and I shaved the other day and I don't know six seconds I kept spraying just because it was fun it felt so novel to be doing it and my my bathroom I almost wanted to do some dishes in there Oh, my God.

[922] I'll be ordering one.

[923] That's lovely.

[924] We got to get you one at your house for sure because you're doing all kinds of things in your sink, right?

[925] Oh, God.

[926] Tons of stuff in there.

[927] Too much stuff, right?

[928] Wash the dog.

[929] That is good for washing the past.

[930] Yeah.

[931] Shave my chest.

[932] And I just want to add, too, that these use 20 % less water than industry's standards.

[933] So it saves you money without common.

[934] compromising performance.

[935] And again, it's the coolest thing ever.

[936] It's got a lifetime warranty, and I love it.

[937] And now I can't wait to shave and make a mess just so I can clean up the mess.

[938] Oh, wait.

[939] Well, you were saying that we just got back from a trip, I think is what you were about to say.

[940] I was.

[941] And they did not have those faucets, which was aggravating.

[942] They had some old fixtures.

[943] It was a haunted house.

[944] Definitely haunted.

[945] Aaron saw some spirits.

[946] You felt some spirits.

[947] Yeah, not as many as some people did.

[948] but uh we were going to buy a Ouija board and try to talk to them summons some spirits i wanted to actually bring a medium in i know and maybe talk with the spirits i'd be so scared almost every night i wish i almost went to monica's room because i was very scary in that room by yourself it was scary and i know monica's the only other one alone yeah that would be the greatest excuse to try try to get into bed with Monica.

[949] I think I saw a ghost.

[950] Aaron, you wouldn't have liked it.

[951] My bed was too short for me. True.

[952] No. Yes, my feet were hitting the back of the bed.

[953] And I was like, who could have ever slept in this bed?

[954] Oh, wow.

[955] Yeah.

[956] We thought of a really funny idea because can I tell people that you had a midnight poop?

[957] Sure.

[958] Yeah.

[959] You had a nocturnal evacuation.

[960] I did.

[961] And I was thinking how funny it would be if you had tiptoed into Aaron's room and you in his bed.

[962] In the toilet.

[963] Yeah, yeah.

[964] No, no, no, no. Okay, just making that clear.

[965] Yeah, yeah.

[966] No, it was in a toilet.

[967] But I was thinking how funny of you, if you had tiptoed into Aaron's room and did your nocturnal evacuation in his toilet and then didn't flush it.

[968] Yeah.

[969] So that when he woke up, he'd be so confused, like, oh, my God, I guess I took a dump in the middle of the night.

[970] I don't even remember.

[971] It doesn't smell nearly as bad as the normal ones I take it.

[972] Good news and bad news.

[973] I don't remember taking a dump and I'm much healthier than I thought I was.

[974] That would have been a really good prank.

[975] It would have, I wish you would have done it.

[976] Can you do that next time?

[977] No. I'm never going to do that.

[978] But it was a fun trip.

[979] We were on the lake, glistening water.

[980] Woo.

[981] Never had been to Lake Arrowhead.

[982] You really feel like you've astro traveled to Switzerland.

[983] I know.

[984] In a mere 85 miles from L .A. Again, they're not a sponsor, Lake Arrowhead.

[985] Just want to say.

[986] And either is L .A. Yeah.

[987] I was thinking when I was driving there that I'm so grateful to live in.

[988] California.

[989] Me too.

[990] It's such a great place.

[991] The taxes are insane, but it is a great place.

[992] You think you get what you pay for?

[993] Yeah.

[994] Mine is the mosquitoes, the new mosquitoes.

[995] That's unacceptable.

[996] Yeah, we don't like them.

[997] No, not with the bill you get at the end of the year.

[998] It'd be like eating at a very nice restaurant and there being fingernails in your food.

[999] You're just expecting.

[1000] But it might be worth it.

[1001] Like at Burger King, if I get a fingernail on something, I'm like, yeah, man, it was $3 .99.

[1002] What did I think was going to happen?

[1003] That's true.

[1004] Oh my gosh.

[1005] That reminds me. Remember, we were, We were in Fort Worth, Texas.

[1006] And we went to, was it a Burger King or a Wadner Burger?

[1007] No, it was a Jack in the Box?

[1008] Jack in the Box.

[1009] This is a real story, Monica.

[1010] Tell me. Apex of summer, right?

[1011] It's hot as Hades in Fort Worth, Texas.

[1012] And we're hungry.

[1013] It's like 11 at night.

[1014] We've been washing cars all day.

[1015] And we go into the Jack in the Box.

[1016] All the employees had their shirts off.

[1017] Okay.

[1018] This is for real.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Their shirts were off and they were cooking and taking orders.

[1021] Oh, wow.

[1022] I remember, now this was, we're in high school.

[1023] Yeah, yeah.

[1024] This is like 92.

[1025] It's a long time, yeah.

[1026] I remember a lot of, a lot of back and forth profanity.

[1027] Over the walkie.

[1028] Two guys had microphones.

[1029] So you had the guy at the counter at the cash register, and he's yelling back what people are ordering.

[1030] And then there's also a guy operating a drive -thru who's also yelling back.

[1031] And they are saying, fuck.

[1032] The whole shit bang.

[1033] It was fucking, they were angry.

[1034] It was amazing.

[1035] And it was hot.

[1036] In their defense, they had to have their shirts off.

[1037] They would have died.

[1038] Dex and I were the only ones who had shirts on.

[1039] That's true.

[1040] All the customers had their shirts up.

[1041] And the guys were going like, I got a whopper extra mayonnaise.

[1042] And the guy was like, wopper with cheese, heavy fucking mayonnaise.

[1043] I was like, oh my God, he just said heavy fucking mayonnaise.

[1044] over the thing.

[1045] It was incredible.

[1046] It reminds me one other quick one.

[1047] We had a car show in Padre Island during spring break.

[1048] And we were only like 19.

[1049] So we were jealous.

[1050] All these kids were on spring break and we were there working.

[1051] And we had to wear these khaki pants and purple shirts.

[1052] Oh.

[1053] And we went to Pizza Hut, I think.

[1054] It was.

[1055] And there's all these beautiful girls and bikinis and dudes like in board shorts.

[1056] And we're in there.

[1057] but there's like six of us.

[1058] Talk about.

[1059] With our collared shirts and we were 19.

[1060] Polyester.

[1061] Was right to my right.

[1062] 100 % polyester.

[1063] Purple colored shirts.

[1064] So we all took our shirts off at Pizza Hut.

[1065] We were like, well, that would be better to have our shirts off.

[1066] So then we just all had matching khaki pants and no shirts off at Pizza Hut.

[1067] And we were asked to put our shirts back on.

[1068] Oh, I respect Pizza Hut for telling you to do that.

[1069] Surprise.

[1070] Me too.

[1071] Spring break.

[1072] There's bigger fish to fry in spring break.

[1073] There's probably people I'm making love in the bathroom.

[1074] God knows what's happening.

[1075] Oh, spring break.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] I miss spring breaks.

[1078] We were not on spring break and it felt like it.

[1079] Waking up at like five in the morning to wash cars and you'd see people like staggering home off the beach, about to hook up.

[1080] Did you guys ever drink while you were working?

[1081] Yes.

[1082] But there was no drinking on.

[1083] on shows, drinking was like not allowed.

[1084] I discovered, like, people were drinking in their hotel rooms.

[1085] And I don't know, we were like 26 at this point.

[1086] And I said to my mom, I'm like, look, everyone's drinking in the room.

[1087] Like, this is crazy.

[1088] So I kind of spearheaded changing the policy, which was a big mistake.

[1089] Congratulations.

[1090] Ultimately, yeah.

[1091] Because then everyone we worked with wasn't drunk, including us.

[1092] And yeah, then it just went crazy.

[1093] Then everyone was drinking all the time yeah yeah till four in the morning then waking up at 5 30 yeah totally i remember on that show we all had to meet at whatever time 6 a .m in the parking garage in the parking garage and as i was hiking up it right at 5 to 6 i just fucking started puking and um and uh your mom was like i'm gonna hand it to you you're on time every day she said you're on time and in uniform but you can not drive a car.

[1094] Oh yeah, because I was still hammered.

[1095] So he had to hand out keys.

[1096] He just held all the keys for the cars.

[1097] You're lucky you had a mommy who was your boss.

[1098] Yeah.

[1099] Okay, Sarah, she wrote that episode and she couldn't remember how old she was.

[1100] Well, I said it though.

[1101] It was in the fourth season, so she was 17.

[1102] She started at 13 years old.

[1103] And so she was either 17 or 16, depending on It was 92.

[1104] 92.

[1105] And she and I are the exact same age.

[1106] So she was 17.

[1107] Okay.

[1108] There we go.

[1109] Well, I'm sorry.

[1110] I'm 27 days younger than her or older than her.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] But basically the exact same.

[1113] This is crazy because we interviewed her a week ago.

[1114] And I think I remember her birthday was the 29th of January.

[1115] And that she was 13 when she was, I'm feeling good.

[1116] Feeling good.

[1117] Yeah, your memory.

[1118] It's back.

[1119] That's good.

[1120] Yeah, sobriety brain.

[1121] Oh, do you feel good?

[1122] I absolutely do.

[1123] You said your hands don't feel clammy anymore.

[1124] That's finally, yeah, the seemingly last side effect of withdrawing.

[1125] Yeah, I had clammy hands for three weeks.

[1126] And I did not like it.

[1127] It reminded me of high school when I had too many hormones.

[1128] And my hands were always clammy.

[1129] I was always panicked.

[1130] A girl would touch my hands.

[1131] I did make the equivalence that it seems like your withdrawals were very similar to PMS.

[1132] Yeah, probably.

[1133] Yeah, I couldn't regulate my body temperature all.

[1134] Uh -huh.

[1135] That's a common thing.

[1136] Like night sweats.

[1137] I get night sweats sometimes during my flies.

[1138] Sure.

[1139] We had a real fun joke when we were watching the vice presidential debates.

[1140] When that fly came out and was on top of Mike Pence's head.

[1141] Oh, my God.

[1142] We theorized that maybe someone had their flies in the audience and that it attacked his hair.

[1143] Yeah.

[1144] That was a funny thought.

[1145] Someone was likely to have been on their period in the audience.

[1146] Sure, yeah.

[1147] An abundance of attack flies.

[1148] Oh, man. I wish I had control of my flies and I could sick them on people.

[1149] I think you could.

[1150] I'm going to try.

[1151] Yeah, you need to communicate better with them.

[1152] They're not there to harm you.

[1153] Maybe I'll do a Ouija board for my flies.

[1154] Oh, that's a good idea.

[1155] To summon them and communicate with them.

[1156] Also, I think you're thinking of your flies as an infestation or pest.

[1157] and as opposed to fairy godmothers.

[1158] Okay.

[1159] They're there to like whatever you would want, a pumpkin turned into a carriage, regular slipper turned into a glass slipper.

[1160] Oh, my.

[1161] But they're all like fairy tale fairy godmothers, so they're not caught up to 2020.

[1162] Oh, you're afraid that they're still like in another genre where they're sexist or something?

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] Oh, okay.

[1165] Okay, that makes sense.

[1166] Can I air a grievance about Cinderella story?

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] So at midnight, everything goes back to normal, right?

[1169] The carriages of pumpkin, the horses are donkeys or whatever the hell they were, dogs or mice.

[1170] The glass slipper is still a glass slipper the next day.

[1171] In fact, it's a glass slipper for a long time because he's walking around the village.

[1172] But it was a glass slipper.

[1173] No, they made her glass slippers.

[1174] She didn't own glass slippers.

[1175] The fairy godmother made her glass slippers.

[1176] Right.

[1177] And everything at midnight went back to its original state.

[1178] The horses turned into mice, and this glass slipper was still glass.

[1179] And he went all around the village, letting people try it on.

[1180] And it was still glass.

[1181] That's a big error.

[1182] It's a logic error.

[1183] Yeah, you're right.

[1184] Here's a tidbit that I know you know.

[1185] If there's a kid on set, they can only be on set for so long.

[1186] And once their time hits, it's called they pumpkin out.

[1187] Yep.

[1188] Or turn into a pumpkin.

[1189] Yeah.

[1190] No, is that just a coincidence?

[1191] We're talking about Cinderella.

[1192] It's a ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1193] It's Peter Meinhoff.

[1194] Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1195] Oh, okay, so Sarah had a crush on an actor when she was a kid.

[1196] His name was Corky Nemek.

[1197] Corrin Nemek was his name, but he went by Corky Nemek.

[1198] And what was the show he was on?

[1199] Let's see.

[1200] His first major film role was Tucker, the man and his dream.

[1201] That was in 1980s.

[1202] Oh, that's a great film.

[1203] You know it?

[1204] Yes, the man, Tucker.

[1205] He had his own car line, and it was a much better car than the big three were making at the time.

[1206] Jeff Bridges played Tucker in the film.

[1207] Wow.

[1208] I can't believe you know this.

[1209] And they ran him out of business.

[1210] Wow.

[1211] But I think he was the first person to have safety glass.

[1212] He had a tracking headlight that turned when you turn the steering wheel.

[1213] He had a lot of innovation that the big three were threatened by.

[1214] Oh, my God.

[1215] Was Corky played the song?

[1216] He played the big three.

[1217] Okay.

[1218] President of General Motors and Henry Ford Jr. The name Corky, there was a very famous Corky, who was an actor who had Downsendor, life goes on.

[1219] What year was that movie?

[1220] Show.

[1221] Oh, it was a TV show.

[1222] Does anyone know?

[1223] I can look it on.

[1224] I don't know.

[1225] I'd say.

[1226] Mid to late 80s.

[1227] What's it called?

[1228] Yeah.

[1229] Life goes on.

[1230] 1989.

[1231] Oh, there we go.

[1232] Best year of our life, yeah.

[1233] I have a friend named Corky as well.

[1234] Now, the actor, I remember, I had.

[1235] I guess it was a psychology class, and we were learning about Down syndrome, which is Trismy 21.

[1236] You have three chromosomes on your 21st pair.

[1237] And they were talking about the vast range of IQ in that many kids with Trismi 21 can have an IQ in the 90s.

[1238] And they used Korky as an example.

[1239] There was an interview in this documentary with him, the actor.

[1240] Okay.

[1241] So he, okay, so he was on lots of shows.

[1242] He earned an Emmy nomination.

[1243] Emmy nominated.

[1244] Oh, one of your peers.

[1245] Yeah, exactly.

[1246] For the show, I know my first name is Stephen.

[1247] Did anyone watch that?

[1248] You seen it?

[1249] No. Okay.

[1250] I got so excited that you saw it.

[1251] And then he was in Parker Lewis Can't Lose.

[1252] That's a show.

[1253] So I'm going to guess it was Parker Lewis Can't Lose at the time, because that was 90 to 93, and Roseanne was in that time.

[1254] Early Roseanne was.

[1255] So I'm going to guess that's the one.

[1256] Okay, how many times did you guest on the talk?

[1257] According to IMDB three, but I feel like maybe more, but on IMDB, it just has you as three.

[1258] Well, okay, A, I feel like I've been a guest more than three times, and I was a host one time.

[1259] Right.

[1260] So it says you and Pena.

[1261] Okay.

[1262] Then you co -hosted with Christy Brinkley.

[1263] That's who tried to give me the, all the make.

[1264] or all the um all the lotion that i didn't want oh my god you should have taken it she's like she's a huge model i bet this stuff was amazing what am i going to do with it though it was all give it to me it was feminine give it to a my skin is so dry um and then wayne brady i was on with wayne brady yes those are the three times it is listed man i well i know i've been there with christin that's what i said but i and i know that i've been there solo not hosting and not with Pena.

[1265] So, who knows?

[1266] Who knows?

[1267] The important thing is I didn't get taxed for any of that facial care product.

[1268] That's right.

[1269] Can I do a fact check from this episode?

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] Episode being the fact check we're doing.

[1272] Yeah.

[1273] A real -time fact check.

[1274] Oh, yeah, that's what we go.

[1275] When we were guessing what year life goes on was, and you said in 1989, Dax had the best year of our lives.

[1276] Fact check.

[1277] 1887.

[1278] The fact was the best year of our lives.

[1279] I know.

[1280] I know.

[1281] Thank you for saying that because I don't, I think you missed it.

[1282] But he said 1989 and I said no, 1987.

[1283] Then he said, oh yeah, that too.

[1284] I did completely miss it then.

[1285] but I'm glad you said that.

[1286] I got double fact checked on that one.

[1287] I just wanted to relate to 1989.

[1288] Because sometimes Dax just says things are the best all the time.

[1289] And I have a little bit of a quam with that.

[1290] And so I thought that was.

[1291] happening again no do you know why i said it and i wonder erin if we have the same thing like how do you remember what year we were in eighth grade because i know exactly the yearbook says end of the 80s yeah i literally go to oh end of the 80s 89 was the end of the 80s i just think of end of 80s in the yearbook so we i did too by the way errant we looked at the yearbook well we were uh we were at like Carol had the last five days, but prior to that, we had that yearbook out.

[1292] We've never, ever seen each other and not got the junior high yearbook out.

[1293] There's always a question that's driving us crazy.

[1294] And in this case, it was Charlie Noel.

[1295] Trying to figure out who was the tough kid in sixth grade.

[1296] And he was Melissa Cooper's half -brother.

[1297] And then we regaled about how much we loved Melissa Cooper.

[1298] Oh, in love.

[1299] I remember trying to have sex with her when I was like eight.

[1300] Oh, oh wow.

[1301] We dug a hole in the yard and tried.

[1302] Oh, boy.

[1303] I would love to know if she remembers this.

[1304] I remember looking at her belly butt.

[1305] You know, the whole confusion of where you put it.

[1306] The vagina.

[1307] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1308] Uh -huh.

[1309] And not.

[1310] at all thinking it's by the butt.

[1311] Yeah, of course.

[1312] So you already wanted to have sex at age eight.

[1313] He probably didn't want to.

[1314] Well, obviously, wanted to.

[1315] He's digging a hole and...

[1316] Tell me about the hole.

[1317] How does that come into play?

[1318] Okay.

[1319] Well, she didn't dig the hole.

[1320] I dug the hole.

[1321] Sounds like now you were going to kill her.

[1322] No, I dug the hole to put tree branches over it.

[1323] So it would be like a fort, like an underground fort.

[1324] Oh, my goodness.

[1325] Okay.

[1326] So I had like a deck of playing cards with naked girls on it.

[1327] Oh.

[1328] Romantic.

[1329] A couple torn pages out of penhouses, maybe.

[1330] Wait, so is that like your lair or were you making it for her?

[1331] I need more information.

[1332] No, I was making it, no, for me. Okay, yeah, that sounds more.

[1333] This wasn't how I plan on romantic, you know.

[1334] Yeah, seducing her.

[1335] Yeah, but I remember taking her then.

[1336] Oh, sure.

[1337] To your spot.

[1338] I loved you, Melissa, if you don't listen.

[1339] And I still do.

[1340] And I still always will, yes.

[1341] I will say, you're probably scared for Melissa, but can I tell you a little bit about Melissa?

[1342] Sure.

[1343] Toughest girl in town.

[1344] Toughest girl in town.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] She would have beaten Aaron's ass at eight years old.

[1347] Definitely.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] I think she did.

[1350] Sure.

[1351] I'm sure you guys wrestled.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] She got the upper hand.

[1354] And then you just prayed she didn't call her half her step brother.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] Join in.

[1357] That's all for Sarah Gilbert.

[1358] Well, I love you.

[1359] I love you.

[1360] I love you.

[1361] And we're leaving tomorrow.

[1362] We are leaving tomorrow.

[1363] And hopefully we'll have a cider mill update.

[1364] Can't wait.

[1365] We didn't have the full plan last time, which is, we're going to go for one day.

[1366] We're going to have breakfast, lunch, dinner, cider, and donuts.

[1367] And then we're going to have a snack.

[1368] Great.

[1369] So we'll update everyone.

[1370] Can't wait.

[1371] Okay.

[1372] Love you.

[1373] Love you.

[1374] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1375] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[1376] Before you go, tell us about it.

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