Jameela Jamil

[0] Hello, my name is Jamila Jamil, and I feel better about my hair for being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[1] Oh, my God.

[2] What a cruel blow.

[3] Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends, They'll never we are going to be friends Hey there Welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend Third season of the podcast This is my second take of the intro Because on the first take I just started making noises Yeah I went You sounded like a chipmunk Yeah I went Well anyway And then I just ran out of steam I don't know what happened there You guys giggled But it could easily have been Some sort of cerebral Cerebral occlusion if you do have really bad mental problems we'll never know I know that's why we were giggling people have often said to me if you had some kind of terrible degenerative brain issue we wouldn't know because Sona back this up half the things I say are nonsense nonsense absolute gibberish and I speak in gibberish and so if God forbid something happened And I got some kind of clot in my brain and started acting and speaking foolishly.

[4] Right.

[5] People would say, yay, here's a check for more money because that's what you do.

[6] And I'd be making gestures, no, no, no. And they'd be going, ha, ha, he, he.

[7] I would be worried if you started making sense.

[8] Yeah, I just assumed something like this happened years ago.

[9] Yeah, if you started making sense, I'd be like, we need to get them to a hospital immediately.

[10] Okay, I just thought of a story.

[11] I don't know.

[12] I hope I haven't told this that involves cerebral hemorrhage.

[13] Oh, okay.

[14] Let's hear it.

[15] Okay.

[16] Dad, tell us the one about cerebral hemorrhage.

[17] Okay, gather around, kids.

[18] Everyone gather around.

[19] You all have your cocoa?

[20] Okay, here we go.

[21] No, serious, this really happened.

[22] When my son was a little kid, his school had a what's called a wax museum day where all the kids dress up as a certain historic figure they have to pretend to be that figure and what happens is you go through like it's an exhibit and they put a little fake button next to each kid and the kid acts frozen so the kids are frozen and different and so my son of course wanted because he's such a techophile wanted to be he wanted to be Steve Jobs so he was holding a laptop and he had glasses on and a little black turtleneck and he was frozen and if you went up and pushed his button he'd go hello my name is steve jobs i was born may 5th whatever 1951 i pioneered the personal computer and he'd give this whole speech and then he'd stop and freeze and you'd push the button again and he'd go hi i'm steve jobs so that's how it worked so i was walking through and i was looking at some and then there was one that i stopped at it was a guy a kid who was frozen and he was wearing a suit and he's standing up and i pushed the button and he said, look out!

[23] Grenade!

[24] I made an explosion sound and then said, hi, I'm Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

[25] And I was like, what?

[26] And he went, I was the, whatever he was.

[27] I was the 30th president of the United States.

[28] And I was in the Great Depression and everything, blah, blah, blah.

[29] And I'm like, grenade.

[30] And he goes like, I saw the country through the Depression and then I saw us through World War II.

[31] And I was like, I guess that's what grenades all about and he said and eventually bringing us to victory in Europe I died April 15th, 1945 of a brain bleed and then he froze again and I'm like what the fuck?

[32] And I push the button again and he went look out grenade!

[33] Hi, I'm Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

[34] I was born in 19 and I couldn't I was so entranced that A he's standing, which Franklin Roosevelt could not do, Franklin Roosevelt's throwing a grenade.

[35] Why is Franklin Roosevelt?

[36] He led us in World War II, but he didn't fight World War II.

[37] What is you talking about?

[38] And I loved it.

[39] And so I stayed there and I just watched it for a while and parents would come up and they'd push the button.

[40] Look out!

[41] Grenade!

[42] Hi, I'm Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

[43] I grew up in Hyde Park, New York.

[44] I was the governor of it.

[45] I died April of 19, and he has this big smile on his face, leading the U .S. to victory.

[46] I died in April of 1945 of a brain bleed.

[47] And then he went back into the frozen position.

[48] And I thought, I'm never going to leave this place.

[49] How old was he?

[50] They must have been really young, right?

[51] I want to say he was seven, eight.

[52] I don't know.

[53] Seeing a seven -year -old saying, I died of a brain bleed.

[54] I died in April of 1945, of a brain bleed, and then freezing, going back to the throwing, and let me make it clear.

[55] Franklin Roosevelt is throwing the grenade.

[56] He's in World War II throwing a grenade, and he's also telling people, look out grenade, which you don't say to the enemy when you throw a grenade.

[57] You don't say, look out there, Nazis, here comes the grenade, and then toss it, and then say, by the way, I'll die in a year in April of a brain bleed.

[58] Uh, man, see, when I say I've got a story about a cerebral hemorrhage, I've got a story about a cerebral hemorrhage.

[59] Oh, that was an all -timer.

[60] I like that one, yeah.

[61] Um, well, anyway, we got a lot to talk about today.

[62] Uh, we're, I'm very excited about our guest.

[63] Thrilled about our guest.

[64] Uh, I'll just say it.

[65] I may be in love with this woman.

[66] Oh.

[67] But that's okay.

[68] I, you know, I will just keep that to myself.

[69] Well, you just said it.

[70] I just said it.

[71] It's true.

[72] it out loud.

[73] This is actually going out into the world, right?

[74] It is.

[75] Yeah.

[76] Yeah.

[77] And it's clear throughout the entire area too.

[78] I know.

[79] Yeah.

[80] You did not hide it well at all.

[81] I know.

[82] You're not good at playing it cool.

[83] No. And I, when this guest showed up, I was holding flowers that I had bought for her that had wilted.

[84] And I was wearing a seersucker suit that's too small.

[85] And I said, look out.

[86] Grenade.

[87] Hi, Jamila.

[88] I love you.

[89] And I'm going to die two years from now in Worm Springs, Georgia.

[90] of a brain bleed.

[91] Well, I've given, you know, you all know who it is, but I adore this woman.

[92] My guest today played Tahani, Al Jameel, for four seasons on the hit NBC series, The Good Place, one of the better television shows to be crafted, I think, in the last decade.

[93] Now she hosts her own podcast, I Way, with new episodes available every Thursday.

[94] I'm thrilled to talk with her today and in studio.

[95] I'm usually, usually over Zoom, but I am thrilled that she's able to be here in person.

[96] Jamila Jamil, welcome.

[97] Now, let's explain to the people listening that my hair is out of control during COVID.

[98] I have not had it cut.

[99] It is out of control, and I have said this, I look like the bully on Karate Kid.

[100] I look like I've got a weird headband.

[101] I've got a lot of hair.

[102] Is that a head?

[103] I thought you'd had an injury.

[104] Well, I'm trying to pass it off as a headband.

[105] I was in a tricycle accident on the way over here.

[106] Yeah, it does.

[107] You know what I should do is I should get a white headband and I should put a big red stain on it.

[108] And then I'll get all kinds of incredible attention from people.

[109] No, I went with headband a while ago because I thought it just gets the hair out of the way.

[110] If you're stuck without a mask, it can be a mask.

[111] It's a really bad look.

[112] Your hair is spectacular.

[113] I've had the same haircut for 32 years, so I'm a hair coward.

[114] You know what I mean?

[115] It's easy.

[116] And also, it's quite.

[117] created a great global mystery around what is under my bangs.

[118] And I have obviously told people, it's a little dick, or a very big clip.

[119] Good Lord.

[120] Good.

[121] This is just where I wanted the conversation to go.

[122] Hi, how are you?

[123] I'm doing great.

[124] I told my mother, she's never listened to the podcast.

[125] I said, tune into this one.

[126] Jamila Jamil.

[127] And she was like, okay.

[128] And so we're off to the races.

[129] I adore you.

[130] I think you know that.

[131] Because I think we heard some, someone took a picture of us at some event and I think I posted, oh, here, you know, here I am with my TV crush.

[132] And it was, you know, it was nice is that it was sanctioned by my wife.

[133] My wife was like, yes, that is someone you should have a crush on and I sanctioned this crush.

[134] I then started asking other questions and she shut it down real fast.

[135] My boyfriend is outside right now sanctioning my crush.

[136] You know, a simp.

[137] I want to say something else.

[138] I want to say something else.

[139] this is in all of COVID throughout this whole crisis I've been talking to people in the podcast through Zoom you and I are in the same room if we die we die together we die together and I it's amazing we're sitting we're socially distant and I'm also emotionally distant he is on my lap I hope that I thought this is what you wanted I misunderstood yeah I were in the same room It's so nice to be in a room with you.

[140] I'm a big fan and I am very happy right now because I don't know about you.

[141] I'm just so missing human beings, especially delightful human beings.

[142] I feel like I'm in a crisis mode because I just am not with people.

[143] I'm with some people, but it's the same people every day.

[144] And I can't take it anymore.

[145] My family's got to go.

[146] I'm getting a new family.

[147] I'm starting another one outside of my existing family.

[148] Amazing.

[149] Yeah.

[150] And now this is the part where you say, and it's, you know, it's great to be with you, Conan, and all that stuff.

[151] I was paid to be here.

[152] Can I have my money now?

[153] 10 minutes.

[154] Well, now, how much?

[155] How much did they have to pay you to get you in here?

[156] $25 ,000.

[157] Good God.

[158] Wow.

[159] And yes, now someone's coming in.

[160] They're bringing a suitcase of cash.

[161] It looks like a drug deal is going down.

[162] No, I love being here with you.

[163] I have to say as a massive introvert, I have loved not seeing anyone else.

[164] I'm okay if you're the only person I see this year.

[165] This is enough.

[166] This is my cup runneth over.

[167] So I'm good.

[168] Now, let's talk about that because you say you're an introvert.

[169] What are we talking about here?

[170] I mean, you really dislike being around other people, or does it make you up tight?

[171] My best year of my life was when I broke my back and I stayed in bed completely by myself, didn't see another person and was on morphine eating ice cream, watching television.

[172] Greatest year of my life.

[173] People are like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.

[174] It was the best year of my life, still unmatched.

[175] Sorry, Ted Danson.

[176] Okay, we'll get to Ted Danson in a second.

[177] But morphine and ice cream, I'm told, is an insane combination.

[178] Really fat and really thrilled and having an amazing time.

[179] How did you break your back?

[180] I was running away from a bee that wasn't chasing me. So I just saw the bee, thought the smartest thing to do would be to run into the road to get away from it, which would make me much safer.

[181] and in fairness I did not end up getting stung but I did get hit by one car into another car and broke my back and irony of ironies the car was driven by another B yeah and so stupid you just told me you were horribly injured by a car and I went for a joke and I said it was the best year of my life you're safe it was the greatest time ever and it's where I got to discover like I really got into comedy I really got into film and TV and music.

[182] I'll never forget that, but just no people around.

[183] No people, and you liked it.

[184] I loved it.

[185] So this year, like, I've been training for this.

[186] I didn't really have friends until I was late into my teens.

[187] I've been training for this my whole life.

[188] It's my Olympics.

[189] This is, you are ready for this.

[190] You are ready to go, let me ask you something about, did this change your life and that you thought, I'm going to die?

[191] Or did you not think that?

[192] Did you always know I'll be okay?

[193] As a teenager, I didn't think that.

[194] I mean, to be honest, when it first happened, I got right back up and walked home because I had so much adrenaline right through me that I thought I was fine.

[195] I was reassuring.

[196] I was worried about the drive -ax who was a very old man who was really fucking traumatised and it was totally my fault.

[197] And then I ran home and decided not to tell my mum.

[198] And it wasn't until I passed out randomly an hour later and then worked up unable to move that I realized something was wrong.

[199] But I was so stoned that I really just didn't think it was that serious throughout.

[200] Right.

[201] I loved it.

[202] I was lying down.

[203] Who doesn't want to lie down?

[204] This isn't what anyone wants to hear but I had a great time it's nice I mean again a lot of this is the morphine talking which I'm told is an amazing I've never had morphine I'm told it's amazing it's like being kissed by virgins on the inside of your veins my lord by virgins who are good kisses which is very unusual you know that's the thing I was going to say is that virgins are terrible kissers by porn stars yes well they don't do a lot of kissing well it depends where they're kissing yeah okay all right Let's stick with that, yes.

[205] Virgins who aren't kissing you on the...

[206] I mean, porn stars who are...

[207] On the inside.

[208] Oh, God.

[209] Those can be quite violent.

[210] Not that I've seen a lot of porn.

[211] I mean, I've watched my share.

[212] You mean, you have shares in?

[213] I have a lot of shares in pornography.

[214] I have invested very, very wisely in pornography.

[215] I've made a veritable fortune, and it's going to put my children through college.

[216] So it's all worthwhile.

[217] Great.

[218] This is, so I've never had that.

[219] What I did have once is I was...

[220] I've made you go redder.

[221] Yes, I have.

[222] I know.

[223] I know you always...

[224] But I like it.

[225] It's, I am, I'm very titillated and humiliated at the same time.

[226] And I love the word titillated.

[227] I was mugged once and it was a bunch of guys around my age, but one of them hit me really hard in the face.

[228] Shit.

[229] and shattered my nose and I went to the hospital and they gave me, I think it was like a mixture of cocaine and laudanum to like just put me out.

[230] It's the happiest I've been in my entire childhood.

[231] I just, when doctors give you the good stuff, it's fantastic.

[232] And I don't use drugs.

[233] Yeah.

[234] I'm not like you.

[235] I'm not constantly using.

[236] I've never taken any hard drugs and I've never drunk alcohol.

[237] Okay.

[238] I was just putting that out there to see what I'd get.

[239] I think we have a lot of things.

[240] things in common.

[241] We haven't used drugs.

[242] We're both very tall and very attractive.

[243] And we both grew up watching TV lying down.

[244] You had an excuse, your back was broken.

[245] Yeah, I did that before the car accident.

[246] I was a lazy, I was just a lazy shit who watched TV and pretended my back was broken.

[247] But it was amazing to me that I, you know, I got the experience at 19.

[248] I really think all children should be hit by a car just once.

[249] Because it just, I have often thought the same thing.

[250] I really do.

[251] And, you know, if I were president, no, but I was able to gain this extraordinary level of perspective in my life because, you know, once you lose the ability to even piss by yourself, your value system completely shifts forever.

[252] So it's been super handy in this incredibly macuous, like bizarre competitive industry where everyone is always thinking about what they don't have rather than being grateful for what they do have.

[253] I mean, we're a whole generation that has obsessed with what we don't have.

[254] Right.

[255] been trained into that by commercialism and so and the internet now yeah and i've been happy to i've just always been happy to be able to piss by myself that's always been the bar it's never been like the benchmark has never changed so i'm always thrilled with everything that's fantastic what a wonderful uh no bar no but what a wonderful partner you would be i mean you're you just as long as you have access to your own bathroom yeah and can piss by yourself you're loving the the partner you're with.

[256] That's fantastic.

[257] Having a great time.

[258] I'm a very simple, chilled human being.

[259] I just don't like people who aren't funny.

[260] And so that's why I prefer to be in my house on my own or with my two funny housemates, one of whom is someone I am in a relationship with.

[261] Got it.

[262] Well, just give me a chance.

[263] Throughout this hour, I will convince you.

[264] Would your boyfriend be cool with me just hanging around the house?

[265] 100%.

[266] No, but let me go further.

[267] I'm really hanging around a lot.

[268] Yeah, no, that's fine.

[269] He would be totally down.

[270] He's also another overly tall ginger.

[271] So this is, he'll have a dad figure.

[272] Oh, why did you do that?

[273] Why did you do that?

[274] That was, we were, it was, it was so good.

[275] And then a dad figure.

[276] Okay, that's great.

[277] That's fantastic.

[278] Well, I would be a very, I guess I must have had him at a very inappropriately young age.

[279] I think it was fine.

[280] No, no, no. I clearly had him.

[281] So I had him when I was like eight.

[282] Is that the idea?

[283] I think you had him at a very normal sort of mid -30s.

[284] Okay.

[285] Okay.

[286] Well, we've established, thanks to Jamila.

[287] Oh, no, no, no, no. It was not late.

[288] So basically, I had to have, I was pretty much impotent when I had him.

[289] You were a child bride.

[290] I'm enraged now.

[291] I'm enraged.

[292] I'm enraged.

[293] I've been destroyed by you, someone I've put on a pedestal, and you've destroyed me. There's nothing left.

[294] That's what pedestals are forced.

[295] They're for kicking people down.

[296] And we're tearing statues down.

[297] And I think you just tore down the Confederate Conan statue and destroyed it.

[298] No. Yeah.

[299] It's gone now.

[300] There's so much that fascinates me about you.

[301] First thing is that you're fearlessly honest.

[302] And I do love that about you.

[303] Do you ever scare yourself?

[304] Several times a day, therefore.

[305] But yeah, I think I am scarily honest, but I just grew up around a lot of very dishonest people.

[306] And I grew up in England, which is just an inherent.

[307] dishonest place because everyone's lying fundamentally just about being happy oh let's talk about that let's talk about that people have said to me sometimes oh conan you should come over here and do some comedy over here and i'll think oh they'll just tear the shit out of me i've been i'm terrified of londoners they seem like they um judgmental pricks is that it is that is that what they are but but not actually towards americans we love an american we are just cruel to our own especially if they find success well that's the tall poppy syndrome yeah so we're very very strange about a successful.

[308] We love a successful American.

[309] We love a Julia Roberts, but we just don't want Hugh Grant to do very well.

[310] Does that make sense?

[311] Well, it all worked out.

[312] Yeah.

[313] So, you know, it's...

[314] What's...

[315] But that...

[316] Sorry, Hugh, come on.

[317] You and I are very good friends.

[318] He's my flatmate.

[319] I have noticed that.

[320] I mean, it's true about the Irish, too.

[321] Look at him over there with his success.

[322] Fekin.

[323] Thinks he's all of that in the bag.

[324] You know what I mean?

[325] It's just like, well, where is that German?

[326] that was me doing Portuguese you know it's so funny I'm an Irish guy who can't do an Irish accent and to really do an Irish accent I have to do a fake cartoon one of oh I've got stars and claws but the real one I could never do and it's really hurt me getting parts but it is like you know we are fundamentally dishonest about how we feel even our humility is fake I have like a big weird theory about why we're so faux -humble a while we're so self -deprecating.

[327] You ready?

[328] Colin?

[329] You ready?

[330] Okay.

[331] So I think that there is a forced humility in the British because the British went out and tried to colonise the world, essentially, and got sent packing right on their ass back to their tiny little aisle.

[332] So for a while there, they thought they had these vast continents that they had ownership over and were told to fuck the fuck off.

[333] And so I think the embarrassment, the mortification of having gone out there with such a big ambition and all the raping, all the pillaging, all the murdering, and to still be defeated and sent packing to now just live in this tiny little, tiny little aisle, I think means that they are trying to be self -deprecating in advance of anyone making fun of them for their tremendous fuck -up.

[334] Okay, a couple things I want to say about that.

[335] First of all, I think you might be on to something.

[336] You're neglecting that it worked for the British for a long period of time.

[337] Yeah.

[338] Now, they managed to...

[339] But do you think that they were self -deprecating back then?

[340] Because I just don't think you can be...

[341] What are you going to do?

[342] Like, go around raping everyone in, you know, all these Native Americans being like, sorry.

[343] I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, I think that they were bullshit motherfuckers.

[344] Yes, yes.

[345] I think at the time they probably, but now what you're talking about is they also lost their empire so fast.

[346] Yes, so I think they're very embarrassed.

[347] And I think that's where the like instant display of self -mortification comes from the failure.

[348] Now, here's my question then, because I brought up the Irish.

[349] The Irish act a similar way and we've never, we didn't conquer anybody.

[350] The Irish can't keep the road.

[351] It was very hungover.

[352] No, no, I know.

[353] It doesn't make sense.

[354] It doesn't make sense to me. We're very, you know, we're very, well, the self -deprecating, putting ourselves down, very mordant wit.

[355] And we never conquered the globe.

[356] We barely got up out of bed and got outside, you know, and moved a potato around with one hoe.

[357] I mean, I don't understand.

[358] I don't know where that came from.

[359] That's a mystery to me. That's fair.

[360] I don't know.

[361] And I also don't know enough about the history of Ireland, in particular.

[362] I just know that the British have a lot to be sorry and embarrassed about, so therefore I think that's where that comes from.

[363] But yeah, growing up around that feeling of like you can't tell people how you really feel, you can't tell people that you're sad, you have to like have the stiff upper lip, and also growing up around very manipulative, like, compulsive liars a lot of the time, you know, people within my school or people within my own household meant that I was just tired of the bullshit and I needed to just get the exact thought I have, which has been very much so to my detriment sometimes publicly but that's just that's how it is I would rather be honest than swallow my feelings and this also comes from an interesting place do you mind if I tell you the interesting place I forbid it it's not my vagina don't worry wait well also when I was 26 I had a fucking terrible nervous breakdown I had very very bad depression and my depression wasn't like lying on a couch crying to sad music it was very like numb high functioning depression.

[364] And so I didn't even know I had depression for so long because the representation in Hollywood is that you visibly look like you're falling apart, whereas I just didn't feel anything.

[365] Right.

[366] I didn't feel anything at all.

[367] And part of that is because I was being dishonest with myself.

[368] So in lying about how I felt, I wasn't just lying to other people.

[369] I was lying to myself that I could cope.

[370] And I think that that detachment from me is what caused my depression.

[371] And so I think part of like getting out of that nervous breakdown and that meltdown was for me to just be like, I can't hold anything in anymore.

[372] I have to, I have to, I have to re -attached to myself.

[373] So that's what happened.

[374] You didn't have a moment of basically became too unbearable and that's when you said, okay, screw it.

[375] I'm just going to call things as they are for the rest of my life.

[376] It wasn't, you went into a certain kind of therapy and how to break through.

[377] No, I mean, I did have therapy a couple of years after that, but no, it was truly a breakdown of just realizing why I'm so unhappy while I feel lonely even with myself.

[378] And it was because I wasn't a truth teller.

[379] I was just a fucking.

[380] fucking, I was insincere.

[381] I was the clown, you know.

[382] I, you know, I was, I had to be the life and soul of the party and the entertainer and I always came with like stupid fucking anecdotes.

[383] And I didn't tell anyone who I really was.

[384] And I think now, warts and all, I've just decided to make it my journey and my, my entire goal to show the world exactly who I am and risk not being accepted, but at least be fundamentally honest to myself.

[385] And true to myself.

[386] And I also think young people need that.

[387] We've grown up with so many people who are not at all transparent.

[388] They don't tell the truth about anything about how they look the way they do, about what's really going on in their head, about how they've achieved success.

[389] And so I think you have to show people the dark side of what you're like.

[390] Otherwise, they're comparing themselves to us.

[391] And they think that there's something wrong with them because we seem to be just high functioning and perfect and effortless all the time.

[392] Well, I've made it a life's mission to let any fan of mine know I am not high functioning.

[393] And that...

[394] I think that's why I love you so much.

[395] I've loved you for such a long time, even from the UK being able to watch your show on the internet is because it felt like you were one of few people who felt like there was some honesty.

[396] Well, that's nice.

[397] It's yet another thing that we have in common in addition to our height and stunning looks.

[398] And I'm going to just keep hitting that again and again until it becomes true.

[399] Fake it till you make it, mate.

[400] Incredible, incredible sexual prowess for both of us.

[401] But anyway, I don't think.

[402] Either of us are actually known for that.

[403] It's, what I'm trying to get out there is that it's, you know, don't be fooled, ladies.

[404] This guy's an animal.

[405] Anyway, because that's just what I. A lemur, yes.

[406] Yeah, yeah.

[407] I didn't say tiger.

[408] I am an old, I'm a very old lemur that's sleeping in a tree.

[409] And I've been injured.

[410] I've been injured in a brush fire and I may not make it.

[411] I'm a lemur in the sheets, ladies.

[412] I don't think you should be allowed to be called an adult until you're 30.

[413] I think 18 is preposterous to be called an adult because you don't know fuckall about shit all until you're about 30.

[414] You only start to figure out who you actually are around then because until your childhood trauma hasn't even surfaced until you're late 20s.

[415] You don't even know where all your isms and idiosyncrasies come from yet.

[416] And they all start to catch up with all of us just before we enter into what I think is actual adulthood.

[417] So I'm really only just starting to figure this stuff out.

[418] And I really passionately, I think I'm going to say hate.

[419] I'm going with hate.

[420] I hate people who complain about getting older.

[421] I hate people who go like, oh, I don't want to say how old I am on my birthday.

[422] You're so fucking lucky.

[423] And I think, again, that comes from the car accident of realizing that I could have lost my life at 19.

[424] Yes, I got to do a lot of basically medical heroin and it was great.

[425] But it could have been really bad.

[426] And I could have had no heroin and just been dead.

[427] And then I would never have got to meet.

[428] you, which would have been a tragedy.

[429] Yes.

[430] I am like a comedic morphine, if you will.

[431] But, you know, I'm so lucky to have lived.

[432] We're so lucky to survive.

[433] So many people die so young.

[434] And if ever there was a fucking year where you realize how lucky you are to have your life, it's this year.

[435] We have to stop this bullshit.

[436] Women have to stop trying to look younger.

[437] Men have to stop expecting women to look young forever.

[438] It's fucking ridiculous.

[439] I just think generally we need to develop some gratitude because life is infinitely better for me, morphine aside, than it was as a teenager.

[440] I was so confused and also we're so ill -prepared for life when we young.

[441] Schools fail us so much.

[442] It's so insane that I knew more about igneous rock than I knew about sexual consent or about depression or anxiety or how the world actually works.

[443] What's bullshit about the media?

[444] I was left like open to being completely blindsided by the world because parents of our generations like didn't talk to us about anything and schools didn't.

[445] No. No. Yeah.

[446] It was, you know, taboo.

[447] And I think that, you know, we came from generations in particular, and it probably still exists where you think that the ignorance and innocence have to be mutually exclusive.

[448] Whereas actually, I think it's the opposite.

[449] I think you can maintain someone's innocence for longer if you arm them with the information that will help them have the autonomy to avoid the things, the disasters that are going to leave them traumatized for decades.

[450] Does that make sense?

[451] Yes, it does.

[452] And in my family, if people, if we were watching a movie and two people held hands, everyone would turn away from the screen and pretend that they could look through the wall.

[453] I feel like that.

[454] Are you okay watching sex scenes?

[455] No!

[456] I can't bear it.

[457] Even on my own, I can't, I can't do it.

[458] I can't bear it.

[459] I've never seen 50 shades.

[460] If I hear that there's a sex scene in a film, I can't cope at all.

[461] I feel so intrusive.

[462] I think you and I should get over this together and your boyfriend.

[463] I want him there.

[464] But I think the three of us should watch 50 shades together.

[465] Can you imagine?

[466] Yes.

[467] We should all, we should film us watching 50 shades of great.

[468] Samra should just be on us watching, and I'm going to be wearing a robe.

[469] I'm just saying, and in honor of your boyfriend, it's going to say dad on it.

[470] You have acted.

[471] I'm not an actor.

[472] I'm always myself.

[473] When I see a sex scene, I'm not just embarrassed for myself.

[474] I'm often embarrassed for the actors because I'm thinking they become so graphic.

[475] And so literally there's a guy saying, okay, this is where you're giving her anal.

[476] And it's these two adults who have to pretend that this thing is happening.

[477] And it feels like such a humiliating way to earn a living.

[478] Sex in itself is so stupid.

[479] Like the thrusting?

[480] Like, what are we doing?

[481] I've never done, what is the thrusting?

[482] What's thrusting?

[483] Just the entrance.

[484] Oh, I don't, once I'm in, I stay very still.

[485] One push and then.

[486] What I do is I slowly, and this is very graphic.

[487] And I hope no one hears this.

[488] I go in very slowly.

[489] often they don't know I'm in then I tell them usually with a note I have a handwritten note that I hand them that says I am now in then I move as little as possible and I just try and stay there as long as I can cool well I don't know about everyone else but I'm a rouse yes yes I'm told as I said they call me the lemur I like to crawl into a small space and I like to curl up and just be there yeah I'm told it's a very unerotic experience.

[490] I've been told that by all three of the women I've had sex with in my life.

[491] And they all said that was shockingly and you know what?

[492] A lot of them were appreciative.

[493] They said I've had these crazy wild rides in sex and they, wow, I could just barely focus the next day at work.

[494] They often did good work on their laptops while I was with them and in full action.

[495] I'm not amazing being in bed, either.

[496] But I've got big boobs, so I don't have to be, really.

[497] What's that?

[498] Why does that mean you don't have to be?

[499] Some of the reviews I've had, I've had three separate lovers, and this is out of five?

[500] Five lovers ever?

[501] I'm writing this down.

[502] Five lovers ever?

[503] Five, maybe six, I think five, five and a half.

[504] Five and a half?

[505] Who's that guy?

[506] Let's not get into that.

[507] Okay.

[508] But let's feel sorry for him.

[509] No, but...

[510] When you said five and a half, I thought I didn't realize we had dated.

[511] Five and a quarter.

[512] So I, yeah, I've been told by three separate men that making love to me. And they meant this, I think as a compliment, felt like having sex with a memory foam mattress.

[513] A memory foam, which means that you would absorb the contour of their body.

[514] To any shape.

[515] You shift to any shape.

[516] That's a compliment.

[517] No, it's not just about being bendy, though it's also that I have no muscles anywhere in my body other than my heart.

[518] So I am really built like a human marshmallow with nipples.

[519] So, but the thing is you do provide great lower back support.

[520] Great lumber support.

[521] Yeah.

[522] When sex was over, they felt well rested.

[523] I'm a comfortable shag, but I'm not an athlete in the sheets.

[524] So I can't, like, I can give you three pumps of reverse cowgirl and then I'm out.

[525] I tap out.

[526] I tap out real early.

[527] I think anyone listening knows that you were being honest, but I was being self -deprecating, as is the Irish way.

[528] I'm a master.

[529] I'm a sexual master.

[530] You did open my water bottle from me very fast.

[531] So that means you have a massive cock.

[532] Thank you.

[533] I didn't use my hands to open it.

[534] I am a sexual athlete.

[535] I've been described in Sports Illustrated.

[536] Actually, I was on the cover.

[537] No one's got buying this.

[538] I'm just going to walk away from it.

[539] Literally walk away from it and move on.

[540] Yes, I think that the fact that you and I are comfortable talking about this, meaning, and when I say that, I mean you're comfortable talking about it, means that we are putting other people at ease.

[541] Because there are a lot of people, I was kidding around a lot, but you are a stunningly attractive woman.

[542] And so there would be all these expectations that I'm sure women of any age would project onto you that you're saying doesn't match reality.

[543] no and it's not even like because i've been unattractive more of my life as in like societally deemed unattractive more of my life than i have been deemed attractive so i'm not even shagging like a lazy girl who's just always had it come to me you know like my first kiss was 21 my first shag was 22 didn't have my first orgasm till i was 23 like i am a slow learner who is just not really chosen to make up for lost time uh i'm just sort of i'm just chilling you know just not learning much uh not over -exerting myself it's more of a just uh i'm just not an athlete, not an athletic guy, just bendy and soft, very soft.

[544] Too soft.

[545] It would appear.

[546] Cool.

[547] Yeah, but I know, I'm just thinking about, I'm thinking about things now.

[548] Can I ask a question this made, but I don't want to let this go.

[549] You said, I don't have to be good at sex.

[550] I have big breasts.

[551] Yeah.

[552] What does that mean?

[553] That was just a joke of like someone's so distracted by breasts.

[554] But it's true.

[555] It's like dangling keys in front of a cat.

[556] They just look at it.

[557] Not that dangling, but, you know, I mean, like, it's...

[558] No, no, I didn't mean that your breasts were like these.

[559] I don't, I mean, I don't think they could start a car.

[560] Also, if they are, that's fine.

[561] That's lovely.

[562] But the point is, is that I've just, like, it's...

[563] They are a distraction tactic, and mostly, if I can just stay silent, I think that's enough for other people, because it's my trying to insert comedy into the bedroom that goes down very badly.

[564] It doesn't go down well?

[565] No, no. I had a boyfriend who once accidentally stuck it in the wrong hole for a brief second and my exact words were within a millisecond of that happening was unexpected item in bagging area which was the angriest i've ever seen someone look with me for trying to tell this he was like i'm really thrilled you've decided to start your stand -up career while i'm inside you but there was just like a you know most girls just wiggle and shift do a wiggle and a giggle and shift but i had to turn it into a supermarket um my I think that's a very funny line to come up with under duress, under extreme duress.

[566] I'm not sure that I would come up with a good joke in that situation.

[567] It's just that that's, like, so mostly it's just been, like, being asked to be quiet.

[568] And then people are normally, like, thrilled.

[569] It's fine.

[570] Right.

[571] Who doesn't want a comfortable shag?

[572] Like, it's just like, some people just don't want the washing, the washboard abs and the, like, you know, the tone of statue.

[573] I am so glad you said that.

[574] Yeah.

[575] I am so glad you said that.

[576] I don't like it.

[577] I've never wanted to have sex of someone very skinny and no disrespect to them but like I like a cushion for all the pushing that they're going to do because I'm tired.

[578] I was really upset when I was in my 20s and women started talking about oh I like that guy he's got such a great ass and I was like we have to have asses we need asses because I have nothing.

[579] There's nothing there.

[580] Yeah, I'm the same.

[581] and pray for the butlers.

[582] I just don't know.

[583] We should start a hashtag.

[584] Yeah.

[585] No, it's, and I was visibly upset, and I was saying to my women friends, I didn't realize that, you know, I thought we had to have, like, wide shoulders, and it was good that I was tall, and, of course, other parts are important, but no one had ever mentioned that, that had never been on the list, and suddenly I'm being told by women, oh, no, that's something we think about and we look at guys' asses, and we object.

[586] It must be so awful to feel like you're being objectified and expected to live up to physical.

[587] Yes, that's the point I'm trying to make, is men, men to the exclusion of any other gender, in my opinion, have been put in this in ridiculous position of being objectified.

[588] Is that, am I going?

[589] What am I doing?

[590] It's what I campaign for all the time is just men's rights.

[591] I knew that you and I would see eye to eye on this.

[592] Yeah, what I weigh is about.

[593] My podcast is just about a man's right to be buttless.

[594] I think that I'm tired of it I'm tired of living up to this standard You should be, it's been too much You're targeted constantly online It's too much and it's gone on for too long Yeah And it's got to, it stops now It's very sexist Leave coming It's just specifically me Women have just been letting go For 2 ,000 years Now talk about IWay Because it's It is fascinating what you're doing And I love what you're doing But let's talk about it Let's talk about IWay Okay so IWay is a kind of online movement that I started that is just a movement against shame it's a mental health movement and we focus on every different type of marginalised group so just all of the shame and the mental health issues that they may carry because they've been otherwise by society so it started because I saw a picture of the Kardashians and they had numbers written across their body and so I clicked on that picture because I wanted to know if it was how much money they had so I was curious and it wasn't it wasn't how many awards they've won or how much money they have but it was their fucking weight.

[595] And once I clicked on that, because of the algorithms of Instagram, suddenly more and more pictures of more, only women were coming up with their weight written across their bodies.

[596] And so I tried really hard to find pictures of men, famous men or businessmen, and I couldn't find anything.

[597] And it hit me that, God, in 2018, I as someone who had an eating disorder as a child, 20 years later, we still don't care about what men look like and how much they weigh anywhere near as much as we obsess over those numbers with women.

[598] we estimate a woman's entire value and worth via the numbers on a scale.

[599] I just felt crazy to me. So I posted in a moment of rage and possibly some PMS that I had T PMS, I was very angry and I posted, well, I weigh my financial independence and my activism and my relationship and my friendships and the eating disorder I survived.

[600] I wear the sum of my motherfucking carts.

[601] And it just resonated with people I had a very small following, but it went completely viral.

[602] I received 10 ,000 responses from women sending me what they weigh.

[603] in all their attributes and contributions to society, started an Instagram account, thought it would be a very short phase.

[604] And two and a half years later, I have 1 .3 million followers on Instagram on this I -Way account.

[605] We are a movement that are changing bills in the United States.

[606] We have changed a global policy across all social media.

[607] And we have a podcast and a YouTube channel.

[608] And we are like a learning space for people about different groups.

[609] But we're also just somewhere where you can come to to feel represented and feel okay about the fact that you're not okay.

[610] Yeah.

[611] I have, first of all, I'm indebted to you because I have children, they're teenagers, I have a 14 -year -old son, I also have a 16 -year -old daughter, so I see what she's exposed to and I see.

[612] And also what he's exposed to.

[613] Right.

[614] Well, he's exposed to having a father who he thinks is an idiot.

[615] That's the thing.

[616] But no, both of them, but I have told them, I said, I think you're growing up in a mom.

[617] more perilous environment than the one I grew up in.

[618] And it's switching it because most parents love to tell their children why when I was your age, we didn't have cable TV.

[619] We didn't have, we didn't get to take the kind of trips you guys get to take.

[620] And we don't do that.

[621] I say to them, I'm looking at what you're dealing with.

[622] And I find it much more perilous and intimidating than anything I had to deal with.

[623] So how can we help?

[624] Yeah.

[625] Well, we had to pay for our peril when we were younger.

[626] That was much harder to access.

[627] You know, I had to buy the fashion magazines that would fuck me up and make me think I was fat and ugly.

[628] Whereas they, you know, they would, it finds them, it hunts them.

[629] It's like the John Krasinski film with Emily Blunt.

[630] Like, it hunts you down in the night.

[631] Right.

[632] So they've got no way of escaping it.

[633] And they're just being so fucking warped.

[634] And I guess that's why it's so important for me and people like me to do the work that we do just to educate kids.

[635] All we're trying to do, look, we can't change anything.

[636] We can't cancel anyone.

[637] We can't cancel anything.

[638] But we can educate you.

[639] And I think that we've entered this real, really odd moment of moral superiority where people make people feel dumb for trying to learn and for not arriving already fully informed about everything and I think that's fucking stupid and it also devalues progress and what is the point of activism if you're not open to the idea that people fucking change and so I started this whole platform as a chance to educate myself because I'm really ignorant I left school at the car accident and so therefore I never went back I'm super uneducated ignorant not very well read nowhere near as much as I would like to be and should be at my age and I don't think there's anything embarrassing about trying and learning.

[640] And so I've created this space so other people can try and learn with me and it's okay if you're stupid because so am I and let's be less stupid together.

[641] I think what you're talking about is this fear, this dreadful fear everyone has is no one wants to be caught in an imperfect moment because there's such a chance these days of getting shamed.

[642] We're the products of our fucking environments.

[643] So I think that that's also really important to take into account.

[644] Both sides need to shift.

[645] And I wasn't just talking about race.

[646] I'm talking about when it comes to trans issues or feminism or anything, disability rights.

[647] A, we have to become more comfortable with fucking up, but also when people make an innocent mistake, a clearly innocent mistake and don't have a record of harmful behavior, we need to start giving people the benefit of the doubt because we're stopping people from putting their hands up and asking the important questions.

[648] And I'm not talking about adults.

[649] I'm talking about the kids, the ones that we can most easily influence to be progressive.

[650] They are watching adults tear each other apart and they are ingesting this, thinking, oh shit, it's better to say nothing than to expose a hint of ignorance.

[651] Otherwise, people shame you as if you are.

[652] It's like we can't separate ignorance from evil.

[653] There is a difference and we have to learn how to separate the two.

[654] So we can understand that we don't also lump everyone together as harmful when some of those people have great potential to be allies.

[655] But therefore, then they're actually harmful people get to hide in a mass group.

[656] We need to learn how to separate those people off so we can find them and kill them.

[657] No. And really go to damage.

[658] Well, hunt them.

[659] making sure that hunt them and kill them.

[660] That they are safe to be around.

[661] You want them running for a while before they're killed.

[662] You know, talking to you about all of this, and I've been aware of how it's spoken you've been, only makes me more impressed with the performance you turned in as to Hani because you were playing someone that initially you might loathe.

[663] You don't know who.

[664] Did loathe.

[665] You did loathe.

[666] And you actually made her much less likable than she was originally written.

[667] Yeah, because I think that the British think that the English are very charming and we're not.

[668] We're utterly charmless.

[669] We're just posh.

[670] I think that we've been given too easy a ride over the United States.

[671] And so I think that it was important for, in order to make her like as funny and as frustrating as she could be, like to give her as many dimensions as possible, so she doesn't become the hot one on the show because that was my fear.

[672] Because that's, A, too much pressure for me to live up to, but also just, and that's not what my show was planning, but it was just, she felt so polished and I wanted her to be truly English.

[673] wanted true representation of how passive -aggressive and insincere and ridiculous we can be.

[674] And I love the English, but this is who we are.

[675] I love us for all of our faults.

[676] Yeah, and also what's cool about Mike Scher is the fact that he's not an egomaniac.

[677] The fact that he was always like, okay, you do your take and then we'll do mine, and then I'll figure out in the edit.

[678] And so I didn't know until season one came out that he'd shaped the character as I had wanted.

[679] He just edited and he used my takes, my choices.

[680] And I just thought that was very cool.

[681] I'm so spoiled for working with Mike Sher.

[682] Mike Schor, anyone who doesn't know, the creative mind, the showrunner for the good place.

[683] And the office and parks and recreation.

[684] And the office and parks from recreation.

[685] But he has a reputation in the business.

[686] This is behind the scene stuff.

[687] But he has the most stellar reputation as a showrunner of anybody.

[688] Everyone says he's not just incredibly gifted, but he's a very kind boss.

[689] And he cares about the people that work for him.

[690] he doesn't want them, they have families to go home too late.

[691] Everyone wants to work with him because he has that reputation.

[692] And he has a no -ass -hole policy, which doesn't mean you have to sew your asshole up before you start working with him.

[693] See, that's what I misunderstood when I applied is I actually, I used a cork.

[694] Like a eunuch.

[695] Yeah, yeah.

[696] He gives you, it's a one -strike rule of bad behavior.

[697] So that's it.

[698] You're out.

[699] You treat anyone like shit, you're out.

[700] It doesn't matter how high or low down the ladder you are.

[701] You're out.

[702] and you know that it's the very first thing he ever says to you before welcome you onto the show is that I have two policies number one the best joke wins and number two I have a no -asshole policy so that is that was great because it cultivated an atmosphere when nobody was a diva and I have been a showrunner and I'm betraying my age now I've been running a late night show for 27 years and I am the show You have a late night show oh god yes it's a it's a spinoff from the podcast.

[703] The podcast I've been doing for 35 years and then a couple of years Did you invent the podcast?

[704] I did.

[705] I did.

[706] When we first did them they were on television and then...

[707] He would just stand it was basically just a speech.

[708] It was a microphone and part of the face leaning in.

[709] But I've been running a show for very long time and my policy has always been you do as I say and I am an insane Roman emperor and I'm given 75 ,000.

[710] thousand chances to be an absolutely reprehensible asshole.

[711] Anyone who ever watches you, we definitely get alpha.

[712] You all get.

[713] You all see alpha.

[714] Yes, alpha, thank you.

[715] Alpha, um, radiate through this.

[716] Overly, too much testosterone, I think, has always been the issue for me as a showrunner.

[717] I like praying on people's worst fears, right, Sona?

[718] What do you think?

[719] Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[720] He rules with an iron fist.

[721] It's terrifying.

[722] She's crying.

[723] Yeah, I'm so scared of him.

[724] Yeah.

[725] He makes her sit on a pain mat while she's listening to it.

[726] Have you heard about these?

[727] What is it?

[728] It's the most fucking LA thing I've ever heard of.

[729] A bunch of very, like, big, fancy celebrities have gone and bought themselves pain mats so they can sort of feel pain and feel discomfort.

[730] A pain mat, I'm imagining...

[731] It's like pins.

[732] Like pins that you lie on.

[733] Yeah, you sit on or lie on.

[734] Wait, so that they can know what it's like to...

[735] I think so or, like, externalize their inner artist pain.

[736] And this is me just being like, famous people can't be in pain.

[737] apps they can and often are.

[738] In fact, they get into this industry normally because they're in pain.

[739] But I've not heard about the pain mat.

[740] Yeah, the pain mat.

[741] A bunch of fancy hippie celebs.

[742] Just sitting on a pain mat.

[743] Well, other people live a pain mat.

[744] Their whole lives is just one big pain mat.

[745] Other people are going to...

[746] Prick and calabasasas sitting on a pain mat and their giant mansion.

[747] So basically we live in a country where a lot of people are being, are not going to get $600 payments from the government.

[748] And other people are living on a six hundred.

[749] $600 pain map.

[750] Yes, exactly.

[751] They paid $600 for the privilege of trying to understand what pain is.

[752] Yeah.

[753] I've got to get one.

[754] But I want mine to be a really good one.

[755] I don't want the shit one.

[756] I want the really good one.

[757] The Bluetooth one?

[758] I want to shout insults at you.

[759] I want to do that thing where you look on Amazon and you're like, no, I don't want to see the cheapest.

[760] Show me the most expensive.

[761] I would go to the most expensive and you know who makes it?

[762] I'm sure.

[763] It's made in Sweden.

[764] Or it's Musk.

[765] Yes.

[766] Musk would make the best, the ultimate pain mat.

[767] Sorry, I don't know how I took you here.

[768] No, I know, but I'm thinking about getting one.

[769] Sona, get me a pain mat.

[770] Are you looking up, pain mat?

[771] I am actually.

[772] I saw, I saw, I know.

[773] Get the expensive version of what you're sitting there right now.

[774] I want the very best one.

[775] I'm looking at one that's $1 ,700.

[776] No, no, no. Is this a real thing?

[777] I'm not joking.

[778] Wait, so talk to me about it.

[779] What is it?

[780] Tell us about it.

[781] Well, some of them are like for acupressure and stuff, but I bet there's like a hidden celebrity connect that does the, does the, really intense stuff and that's probably really expensive.

[782] What a bunch of cunts.

[783] I know.

[784] You know what?

[785] I'm going to talk to you about your language.

[786] I've let it go.

[787] You've had so many fucks on this show and you've had so many shits and you don't give a fuck about shitting and you don't give a shit about fucking.

[788] I'm English.

[789] This is how we communicate.

[790] No, no, no. That is no excuse here.

[791] As I've said many times, this is a podcast primarily for children.

[792] It's by children for children and I don't appreciate what you're doing.

[793] You're taking us down a very bad road oh fuck off okay well i don't give about a shit about you telling me to fuck off this sounds great in my accent uh fuck you you um okay it's not working i can't do it i can't do it i just can't do it um let's say i do come over and i'm with you and your boyfriend so let's just follow this scenario so we're in our robes well i'm just hanging out and better not be hanging out of your robe no no no trust me that can't happen anymore there's been an accident but My point is, if I'm hanging around with you guys, what are you doing for fun?

[794] What do you like to do?

[795] Just around the house.

[796] Do you, what's your place of joy?

[797] Do you guys just watch TV together?

[798] It's snacking and TV.

[799] It's truly just the food and comedy combination for us is enough.

[800] We're very low -key people.

[801] And also, you know, we've indulged in an immense amount of privilege in the fact that we've been touring artists our whole lives.

[802] Right.

[803] We've seen so many things in the world.

[804] We've done all of these, you know, gone to.

[805] to all the places, gone to all the fancy parties that you're supposed to enjoy, but they're fucking horrible and the people are terrible, and you're wearing something uncomfortable.

[806] Have you ever been invited?

[807] I was not invited.

[808] It was so embarrassing when you said, we've all been to the parties with the beautiful people, and it's boring, right?

[809] I can't help you there.

[810] I've been to a few parties where there were some major celebrities, but I've been to shockingly few.

[811] Yeah, and so, you know, like we've kind of had a really amazing and diverse opportunity to find out what we like, and really what we like is the same shit that we like when we were 12, which is just comedy and chocolate.

[812] Yeah.

[813] And so we just watch stand -up or comedies together, series together, very low -key couple who really just spend our lives on aeroplanes and I'm just so thrilled to be at home with each other right now.

[814] So that's it.

[815] It's very dull.

[816] It's you.

[817] It's me and my horny ginger dog and my other horny ginger dog, Conan.

[818] Nice.

[819] My boyfriend, a third horny ginger dog.

[820] Oh, that's right.

[821] Your boyfriend is a redhead, a ginger, as you say.

[822] and it's interesting that you drew drawn to a redhead that's interesting yeah that one time well everyone knows that we are the most like a comet like haley's bop no you were drawn to him because you know that pubes you know about oh my god it's insane no it's true every day in the shower i look down and it looks like there's a fire a fire has broken out yeah it's like a fire around a Sort of a little igloon I'm sorry Fire broke out around an igloo There's been some malformation We're not going to talk about that This is It's really lovely talking to you This is my favorite time ever on a podcast I feel so comfortable and relaxed Well I'll come Maybe too relaxed Please please just no more swearing I can't handle it anymore Colin too relaxed Yes or no That's a yes that's a resounding yes Colin you're also from across the pond, are you not?

[823] Is there a way that Colin can speak to us?

[824] You have a microphone there, don't you?

[825] Hi there, yes.

[826] Colin, I just want your perspective.

[827] Were you from, Colin?

[828] Manchester.

[829] Manchester, yes, that's right.

[830] Did you agree with what Jamila has said about, does it ring true to you about the English?

[831] It's all poppy syndrome, for sure.

[832] I'm not as experienced with our colonial history.

[833] But yeah, it's all puppy syndrome.

[834] Absolutely.

[835] Everyone hates to see someone succeed.

[836] So do you hate Jamila right now because she's done so well?

[837] No, because we've risen together.

[838] He's my producer.

[839] Right.

[840] I know he's your producer, but you've, you know, risen, you've really risen, and there must be some hatred within you if you're a proud Englishman right now.

[841] There must be some home.

[842] I guess this should, but there isn't because Jamila just sort of turned up in L .A. and was like, we'll be friends, and so we were.

[843] And so it's difficult to resent that success.

[844] Okay.

[845] Well, that's no fun.

[846] I paid him.

[847] She should have elbowed me aside by now, and then I could resent her.

[848] Do you guys ever go to a pub together and get a pint?

[849] What do you do?

[850] Do you ever do anything?

[851] God, where would we even do that here?

[852] What are you talking about?

[853] They have fake pubs all over the place here down in Santa Monica.

[854] They're very distressing.

[855] I hate the fake pubs here.

[856] Yeah.

[857] English people like, it's just break bread.

[858] That's it.

[859] We break bread.

[860] That's fascinating.

[861] We talked a big talk and got sent home with our knickers down.

[862] But you had it.

[863] It works for so long.

[864] For a bit.

[865] No one cares about the journey.

[866] And then it all went away.

[867] It's not how you start.

[868] It's how you finish.

[869] Who the hell was that?

[870] I don't know.

[871] It's not how you go, it's all you land.

[872] Oh, my God.

[873] You just became Martha Ray.

[874] I don't know who are you.

[875] Yeah, and she's doing a dance.

[876] She's flailing her arms around and she's, I'm going to start and it's how you finish, baby.

[877] I didn't know that that person was in there.

[878] Yeah, but it's a lot about me. You don't know yet.

[879] You should talk in a very profane sexual way as that woman.

[880] That would be the way to go, you know?

[881] That character should then start.

[882] to morph that way.

[883] I'm telling you, that's the future for that character.

[884] Great.

[885] Absolutely a treat in talking to you and I look forward to hang out at your house with...

[886] Oh God, it's not finishing on the song, is it?

[887] Oh, God.

[888] Thank you so much for being so honest and so funny.

[889] I'd appreciate, you know, clean up the language a little bit, but I do adore, I really do adore you, and I think you're doing something very special.

[890] And as the father of a 16 -year -old girl, I'm very happy that you're doing this work.

[891] I really am.

[892] Very appreciative.

[893] So...

[894] Thank you.

[895] And she adores you.

[896] She's a huge, that my kids absolutely love the good place.

[897] So I get points for just knowing you.

[898] It's one of those things where they don't respect me, but when I can go home and say, I saw Jamil Jamil today, I'm suddenly cool for about six seconds.

[899] The Arnaut of cool.

[900] Yeah.

[901] Thank you.

[902] Thank you so much.

[903] Loads of love.

[904] It's hard for people to know because this is a podcast.

[905] But I have developed a radically different look in the last couple of weeks because I haven't had a haircut since quarantine.

[906] Yeah.

[907] And I look really different now.

[908] I mean, the old Conan pompadour, this is an engineering thing, but when it gets, the pompadour can only hold so much weight.

[909] Yeah.

[910] You can use various products to keep the pompadour going for a while to get that really the Conan shelf, the pump, the poof, whatever you want to call it.

[911] But what's happened.

[912] is about three weeks ago I had, the pompadour was crazy long and I had piled the hair up and it was just insane looking, right?

[913] It looked like I had a baguette on my head.

[914] And then I remember very clearly it was late in the afternoon and I heard a creaking sound and the pompadour collapsed.

[915] Oh no. It collapsed and little workmen that were working on it were killed.

[916] Is that how it stays up?

[917] Yeah, there are little workmen in there and I heard creaking and then screams and we tried to retrieve whoever was in there Oh, no. But they were all gone.

[918] We lost all souls.

[919] Oh, man. And the Pomadour collapsed and crashed, came crashing down.

[920] And, of course, we taped it off and we looked at it.

[921] And then I realized, I can't do this anymore.

[922] Screw it.

[923] So I went out and I got a headband.

[924] Now I walk around with this big crazy headband.

[925] And it's kind of like an 80s band.

[926] Dyer Strait.

[927] Mark Knopfler, you know, or Bruce Springsteen to that certain era.

[928] I've now, I'm a guy that wears a big head.

[929] headband that covers my whole forehead and shoves my hair up above me. And then I...

[930] Is it Terrycloth?

[931] It's made of actually a, it's a company called Buff, B -U -F.

[932] We're not getting any money for this.

[933] This is just a shout out to the good people at Buff.

[934] They're pretty inexpensive, but they're also a mask, too, because you wear them around your neck.

[935] So I've got one around my neck.

[936] Yeah.

[937] And I've got one around my head, and it pulls up, and it makes a mask.

[938] And I'm this different guy.

[939] I look kind of like...

[940] What do you think?

[941] A ninja?

[942] I was going to say the villain from the karate kid.

[943] What was his name?

[944] Oh, yeah.

[945] Johnny, Danny?

[946] Let me look it up.

[947] It was, I think it was Johnny.

[948] Sweep the leg, Johnny.

[949] Yeah.

[950] Sweep the leg.

[951] He's the incredible bully.

[952] Yeah, he's the bully because he had also a lot of like hair coming out from a headband that he wore.

[953] And that's what I'm.

[954] Yeah, he had a headband.

[955] And he also, you probably are thinking of him because he was incredibly cruel, heartless.

[956] And he had a mean, a mean, twisted up face all the time.

[957] He was always just, he and his friends always just wanted to chase Ralph Machio.

[958] When Ralph Montchio was on his bike, they made him crash off a hill, remember?

[959] And then he was like, hey, ha, ha.

[960] We mean, we showed you, who does that?

[961] I do that when I'm wearing a headband.

[962] When I'm wearing a headband, I become the villain from Karate Kid.

[963] Do you shove people in the street?

[964] Yeah, and I'm constantly, I'm constantly wanting to threaten other people in it.

[965] I go into dojos where I don't even belong and I don't know any karate and I just go in there and I wear my headband and I start mocking other people and trying to you know hurt their feelings or make them feel inadequate and a lot of times the guy the dojo master the sensei if you will I suppose says who are you oh you look like you're Conan O 'Brien but he would never come in here and your hair's too long but you look really you seem mean and dicky and you should probably go.

[966] You don't even seem like you fight.

[967] And I'd be like, I don't fight.

[968] I don't fight at all.

[969] But now that I'm wearing this headband, I am the mean kid from Karate Kid.

[970] I'm sure someone's looked up his name.

[971] What's his name?

[972] Johnny Lawrence.

[973] That's it.

[974] And didn't he come back to them?

[975] They bring that show back?

[976] Yeah.

[977] And actually, speaking of hair, I went to get my haircut a couple years ago, and he goes to the same place I get my haircut, and he was getting his haircut.

[978] Couldn't have been nicer.

[979] He was nice.

[980] I heard he's a nice guy.

[981] He's so nice.

[982] I've heard, yeah.

[983] I've heard cross -bord is incredibly nice.

[984] he must be trying to undo that reputation.

[985] Yeah, he spent his whole life since Karate Kid going out of his way to say, let me get that door for you.

[986] And people are like, you're still a prick.

[987] You made Ralph Machio crash on his bike.

[988] You're going to sweep my knee.

[989] Oh, played by William Zebka or Zabka?

[990] Zabka.

[991] Okay, played by William Zabka.

[992] It was in the chat.

[993] Oh, okay.

[994] And he's still just as good looking, that guy.

[995] He is.

[996] Yeah, some guys, some guys like us don't age.

[997] You know what it is?

[998] It's the headband.

[999] The headband pulls the skin taught.

[1000] What I have noticed is that instead of, you know, people in my business have to think about, you know, at some point, do we have some surgical procedure?

[1001] Do we not?

[1002] And I'm made of cheap Irish stock, so we're just, no, we just rot.

[1003] We just rot like pumpkins.

[1004] And I've decided that this headband, which I'm wearing, because my hair's too long, it literally is in my eyes now, so I'm wearing this headband.

[1005] And I'm liking it because one of the side effects is that it's pulling my skin.

[1006] Todd.

[1007] You do look good, though.

[1008] It does look good.

[1009] But I will say rather than like dire straits, you look more like you're in flock of seagulls.

[1010] Very beautiful.

[1011] Yes.

[1012] Yeah, flakas seagulls.

[1013] I've had a few people say flock of seagulls.

[1014] And I'm sticking with it.

[1015] Now, let's be honest, I could get a haircut at this point.

[1016] I could.

[1017] Yeah, I could.

[1018] I could get a haircut.

[1019] There are plenty of people who would be willing to cut my hair and meet me in a field somewhere.

[1020] And we could both be wearing respirators.

[1021] And they could cut my hair.

[1022] So it could be safe.

[1023] done.

[1024] At this point, it's not even about that.

[1025] I'm just going for it.

[1026] I'm going for it.

[1027] Because, you know, once I grew a beard and I was like, I'm just going to do it and I did it.

[1028] And now I'm thinking, I want this to grow so long that maybe I get a man bun.

[1029] Maybe I have to, yeah, maybe, maybe.

[1030] I would never do man bun.

[1031] I'm just kidding about that.

[1032] But I would like it tumbling, like Jesus length.

[1033] I want Jesus length hair.

[1034] Do you?

[1035] I want Jesus hair.

[1036] Are you worried without your hair?

[1037] hair and half your face covered, people probably don't recognize you anymore.

[1038] Well, you know, it's funny, even with a mask on, I walk around saying, I'm Conan, I'm Conan.

[1039] Oh, okay.

[1040] So I'll put my mask on right now.

[1041] So now my mask is on, I pulled it up from the bottom.

[1042] And this is the experience.

[1043] If you see a tall person who's pretty much all covered going, Conan, I'm Conan, I'm Conan.

[1044] I'm Conan.

[1045] I'm Conan.

[1046] Seems a little needy.

[1047] I'm Conan.

[1048] I do that.

[1049] I do.

[1050] Because I desperately need people to notice me. It's the only reason I got into show business is so that people would be excited to see me and go, oh my God, it's Conan.

[1051] I cannot live without that.

[1052] I sometimes wonder if you willed yourself to have red hair just so it would stick out.

[1053] I think there's a lot of things I willed myself to do.

[1054] I mean, I think that naturally I'm an amazing athlete, but I think I, listen to me, listen to hear me out.

[1055] I willed myself to be inept and physically awkward because that's funnier.

[1056] And when I was young, when I was very young, I was strikingly handsome, strikingly.

[1057] I mean, people used to say, good God, he's going to be a leading man. I was like, no, I'm interested in comedy.

[1058] And I remembered as I was growing, I willed myself.

[1059] I really do think through sheer force of will.

[1060] I shaped my eyes to be kind of beady and my lips to be sort of thin and creepy.

[1061] I knew that these, and my face to be kind of really big and wide and invasive.

[1062] And I did all that because I thought that's going to play better for a comedy.

[1063] I'm just saying that a lot of downsides to COVID.

[1064] I don't need to list them.

[1065] You know, I don't need to.

[1066] You said that.

[1067] You know, there are downsides to COVID.

[1068] But everyone's looking for the silver linings and I'm looking, I am exploring this new me, which is I'm beyond Borg, the tennis great, in 1978.

[1069] You're Martina never to order.

[1070] Or, you know what, I don't care.

[1071] I don't care.

[1072] I'm gender fluid.

[1073] It doesn't matter to me. I have no, I mean, I'm fine being either one.

[1074] And I'm sort of like Sean Cassidy.

[1075] I'm Chrissy Teigen.

[1076] Wait, what?

[1077] I just threw her in there.

[1078] I think she's very beautiful.

[1079] You can't just say you're her and then like, we'll be like, uh -huh, yeah.

[1080] Well, I almost got away with it.

[1081] No. I'm on board.

[1082] I'm on board, frankly.

[1083] Matt.

[1084] What I'm saying, I'm going for a headband and I'm wearing it all the time.

[1085] And I'm, you know, if you see a tall Dutch woman with a headband on the head, And then underneath, that's me. That's Conan O 'Brien.

[1086] And also, if you hear the person saying through their mask, I'm Conan, I'm Conan, I'm Conan, that's me. And make a big fuss.

[1087] Make a big fuss and really get excited.

[1088] And even if you're not a fan and you've never been a fan, do me a favor, how much would it cost you to go, oh my God, I grew up watching you, you're the best.

[1089] You define comedy.

[1090] Is that really going to hurt you to do that?

[1091] That's not going to hurt you.

[1092] So people should just say that stuff to you.

[1093] Yes.

[1094] Even if it's not true, maybe.

[1095] Yeah.

[1096] Okay.

[1097] And if you actively dislike me, why, that's a waste of time.

[1098] No good comes of that.

[1099] Come up to me and go like, you know what?

[1100] Your work means so much to me and you're so great and you've brought so much joy to my life.

[1101] Easy.

[1102] I don't want you.

[1103] I'm going to a fan.

[1104] Fuck you.

[1105] Oh, my God.

[1106] Just do it.

[1107] Goddammit.

[1108] You can't say fuck you to people who might not be your fan.

[1109] This headband guy's got an edge.

[1110] I'm sorry, it's the headband squeezing the vessels near my brain.

[1111] and it's creating microbursts of hostility.

[1112] Just fucking, just fucking say you like me. Just fucking praise me. Do you see me on the street?

[1113] I'm Conan, I'm Conan, I'm Conan, I'm Conan.

[1114] Praise me!

[1115] I'm Conan, I'm Conan.

[1116] Okay, this went very badly.

[1117] I did.

[1118] I like your long hair.

[1119] I'm going to stick with it.

[1120] I think it's really good look for you, and I actually like it.

[1121] Yeah, all right.

[1122] You know what we should do is keep going with it and check in throughout the season on how it's doing.

[1123] Yeah, and we can post photographs, so then you can put them on people, computers but yeah I'm liking I'm digging the new look and just check me out you know I'll be out there I'll be on the streets I walk the streets go up to him tell him you love him yeah feed his need don't forget to say catechai as God made her catacai as God made her Conan O 'Brien needs a friend with Sonam O'Sessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself produced by me Matt Goreley executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solitaroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf, theme song by The White Stripes.

[1124] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[1125] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[1126] The show is engineered by Will Beckton.

[1127] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

[1128] Got a question for Conan?

[1129] Call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -251 -2821 and leave a message.

[1130] too could be featured on a future episode.

[1131] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[1132] This has been a team Coco production in association with Earwolf.