155 - You Don’t Know What You Don’t Know

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] We start this with Air Guitar.

[2] Hello.

[3] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[4] This is your comedy true crime podcast that you check in with weekly.

[5] Yeah, just to see how you doing.

[6] Just see how we doing.

[7] Hey, hey, how are we doing?

[8] Here's one way we're doing.

[9] Right now I have an imported Australian cookie in my hand.

[10] Fuck yeah, you do.

[11] A good friend of ours, insert name here later, sent us a box of Australian candy and cookies.

[12] And to that person, named to be inserted later.

[13] It's the gal who made us those candy hearts.

[14] Stephen, what's her name?

[15] Jess.

[16] What's her?

[17] Something by vintage.

[18] Shit.

[19] Pod.

[20] No, wait.

[21] She sent us a bunch of Australian candies and cookies, and we're eating guys from in America.

[22] I didn't know this until we went to Australia.

[23] There's this thing that they fucking have called hundreds and thousands.

[24] It's just sprinkles on everything.

[25] It's amazing.

[26] It's kind of like a cookie, an Australian cookie version of a Pop -Tart.

[27] Yes.

[28] It's a Pop -Tart feel.

[29] No jam.

[30] No, no. Nothing in the middle.

[31] It's just kind of like dry and flaky with pink and sprinkles on top.

[32] But then for some reason, it's the best cookie.

[33] Yeah.

[34] For the love of vintage.

[35] Yes.

[36] We did an unboxing and she sent us a bunch of cute of her, what is it called?

[37] Crafts.

[38] And then a bunch of candy too, which is just the way to get our attention for sure.

[39] Yeah.

[40] So we've been eating.

[41] We're here in the office.

[42] We're at the exactly right offices right now.

[43] That's right.

[44] We unboxed that that unboxed box was sitting in the office kitchen.

[45] So we've just been slowly all day long eating Tim Tams and hundreds and thousands.

[46] You can see that unboxing video.

[47] Hey, we never plug the fan cult.

[48] Are we embarrassed to plug the fan call?

[49] Are we embarrassing?

[50] Yes.

[51] We have a fan call.

[52] If you go to My Favorite Murder .com, you can join.

[53] You get a fucking exclusive t -shirt and pen.

[54] We're about to, we're now going to do.

[55] for every live show, we're going to do a two -ticket giveaway now.

[56] But we put up unboxing videos of like gifts people fucking send us once a week, too.

[57] Yeah.

[58] And those, that ticket giveaway starts at the San Diego shows for this weekend.

[59] So if you're in the San Diego area, you belong to the fan cult or you want to join it.

[60] And you're fucking pissed that you didn't get tickets.

[61] Get on there and you can enter to win two tickets to one of the two shows that we're doing in San Diego.

[62] And we come out of this off stage and hug you right in the audience.

[63] I didn't tell you that.

[64] But that's part of it?

[65] That's written in the fine print.

[66] Yeah, Karen has to hug.

[67] Yeah.

[68] I'll fucking dive right into that.

[69] Remember that live show?

[70] It was the first tour.

[71] When I left the stage and went in to, went and yelled at the girl in the audience.

[72] Yes.

[73] Wagely.

[74] Was I drinking at shows then still?

[75] I don't know.

[76] All I know is that once I was out there, I was like, oh, I should not have just walked away and left her alone.

[77] That's right.

[78] I was like, huh.

[79] It was because we were giving someone shit for going to the bathroom.

[80] Like not being there when we called on them.

[81] Oh, you were going to go sit in her seat.

[82] Yes.

[83] And only when I got to her seat did I realize what a bad plan and how I didn't really think it through.

[84] Let's do it at every show this tour.

[85] Guys, what we're saying is these live shows are unpredictable.

[86] There'll be this.

[87] They'll be that.

[88] We're out there with you.

[89] We're up here with ourselves.

[90] We're here.

[91] We're there.

[92] We're everywhere.

[93] Oh, do you have a thing?

[94] Thanks for asking.

[95] I have a pressing corrections recorder.

[96] Here's what's cool about this part.

[97] I don't, let's not paint ourselves into intellectual corners where we start doubting every goddamn fucking word we say.

[98] Especially since we have listeners and friends out there, this person we met when we were at the Vancouver show, her name is Yukari, and she told us when we met her in the meet and greet that she translates this podcast for Japanese listeners.

[99] and people who only speak Japanese, which we were like, what?

[100] How?

[101] Are there enough people?

[102] Is this a thing?

[103] Really?

[104] It was really fun, exciting.

[105] She was super cool to talk to.

[106] And luckily, with all the kindness in her heart, I'm assuming, she checked in the morning after the last episode we did to let me know that I had mistermed something.

[107] It was her and like a bunch of anime dudes that were stoked.

[108] That's the correct.

[109] I were like, I was talking about the thing that there's a Japanese term for when your iris doesn't touch the bottom lid.

[110] Yeah.

[111] And I said it was called Sapuku.

[112] And you know what?

[113] And I went, yeah, because you said it, this just shows me what a follower I am.

[114] Not that I would have known either way, but you said it was such confidence.

[115] I was like, wow, I can't believe Karen knows that.

[116] That's so impressive.

[117] And you just like, you had it.

[118] You didn't even like pause.

[119] Yeah.

[120] It was amazing.

[121] And this is, thanks for pointing that out.

[122] this is the problem area because when I see mom my brain collects information like that and files it away you should see me play jeopardy at home my god I bet you're amazing mind -blowing but but when we record our conversations and every single thing needs to be right it's absolutely not does it well so supuka the thing that I called the whites of the eyes is actually another word for harakiri which is the way when you have an honor suicide in Japan and you run a sword through your own stomach while on your knees.

[123] And then I believe twisting it.

[124] No. I think that's where that twisting the knife saying comes from.

[125] But that absolutely.

[126] And Yukari, please let me know how wrong I am.

[127] That could be wrong.

[128] Now we're just fucking, we can't stop.

[129] We're saying that we shouldn't do it.

[130] And then we just won't fucking stop.

[131] I won't stop.

[132] The real term I should have used was Sampaku.

[133] This is the message The very lovely message Hi, Karen Kougarif, just listen to the latest MFM Sapuku is Japanese suicide ritual What you meant was Sampuku But she actually spelled that Sampuku Gan Which literally means three white eye Because that means there's three spaces Around your iris To the right to the left And on the bottom And there should only be the two this is the new five head nice exactly because we're my number you're two head I have a teeny tiny two head um she also said it's not good in physiognomogy I physiognomy physiognomy okay anyway Yukari thank you so much for kindly pointing that out um and everybody could we just please all start using correct terms Japanese terms all the time let's please we're offending the Japanese public Damn it.

[134] That are listening to this in Japanese.

[135] Oh, can I...

[136] It seems like I should probably ritually commit suicide because I have shamed my ancestors by being so wrong.

[137] Speaking of shame, can we have what will probably is the first and will probably be the only...

[138] I was fucking right.

[139] Georgia told you so.

[140] Sure.

[141] When we wrapped last week and we had recorded, we had recorded, we had recorded, we had recorded, what are they called?

[142] An episode.

[143] And ads.

[144] And I turned to you and see.

[145] And I said, Karen, I think you said penis instead of products.

[146] Was that it?

[147] I don't remember.

[148] Pieces of furniture.

[149] I swear you said penis is a furniture.

[150] And you're both like, no, I don't mean you hear that.

[151] Well, Stephen and I were like, yeah, we don't know what you're talking about.

[152] But now I said the word penis more times than anyone on this podcast.

[153] Required for the story.

[154] Yeah.

[155] Not your problem.

[156] But then we got tweets from people.

[157] And then Georgia was like, I fucking told you.

[158] But I honestly Of course I didn't hear it Because I'm the miss speaker I think I know what I said And then Stephen was just like No If you both agreed I was like well then I'm wrong You're outnumbered Yeah There's nothing you can do I thought it was like a Laurel and Yanny Situation I heard pieces of furniture Laurel and big tops What Well now we've said penis More times than necessary So that's the last So I hope you've all learned your lesson Georgia shouldn't do that what else do you want to hear a cool email this is rad we went on at length last week talking about Lucky Luciano the gangster and of course the beautiful actor that played him on Boardwalk Empire then we got this email subject line Lucky Luciano was brought down by a rad as fuck black female prosecutor yes did you ever know or hear anything about this of course not guys they don't teach this in fucking they don't public fucking school.

[159] This is the shit that like goes unspoken and then everyone's like, it's maddening to me. Okay.

[160] Love your podcast, you, the cats, dogs, the vents, etc. I was listening to your recent app that talked about Lucky Luciano and thought you'd love to know that the three piece suit motherfucker was brought down exclusively because of a rat as fuck woman.

[161] Eunice Carter was the granddaughter of slaves, a cum laude graduate of Smith College and Fordham University, and she is intensely not here for any bullshit.

[162] She was one of New York's first female African -American lawyers and one of the first prosecutors of color in the United States.

[163] She worked for Thomas Dewey, a special prosecutor in the 1930s, to take on the mob in New York City.

[164] He hired 20 lawyers, 19 white men, and Eunice Carter.

[165] As a team, they mostly focus on loan sharking and kidnapping and murder, but they toss Eunice the sex work stuff to cover because, you know, woman.

[166] Eunice, being the sharp tack she is, noticed that women arrested for prostitution from all over New York City were represented by the same lawyers and bail bondsmen, and those agents had relationships with Lucky.

[167] She established that the sex workers were required to kick back half their earnings to crime bosses in exchange for legal representation, and Lucky was profiting from the prostitution.

[168] She was the only assistant on Dewey's team who ever connected him with any crime and is the reason he was sent to prison.

[169] Holy shit.

[170] Her grandson wrote a book about her called Invisible, and I highly recommend it to every living person.

[171] Yes, that's our new fucking book club.

[172] Right?

[173] Yeah, let's all read Invisible.

[174] That's cool.

[175] Stay sexy and don't mess with women because they are smart as hell, Julia, in Seattle.

[176] Julia, thank you for fucking sending that.

[177] That is, I'm so happy to know that, and I love that.

[178] I love knowing that.

[179] Such a good little piece of info.

[180] Let's all get the book.

[181] invisible and give ourselves a couple weeks.

[182] Can I listen to it?

[183] I have to listen to it.

[184] Yeah.

[185] And then let's have a convo and you guys join us.

[186] Yeah.

[187] And buying the book Invisible.

[188] What that means is like with Sweet Audrina, we'll never talk about it again.

[189] No, we absolutely will.

[190] We bailed on Sweet Audrina because we were like, it was creeping us out.

[191] Remember?

[192] Yeah.

[193] We're like, oh, I was a kid in this turned me on.

[194] Yes.

[195] We should get out of here.

[196] I think we were having shame spiral feelings around that book.

[197] And we didn't want to like shit on you know the author we did it was like a whole thing where we was eye opening yeah you're like oh that's why I'm into that porn yeah that's why I'm into attic porn that explains everything yeah that's what you trip over the word addict addict addict um that's it that's it for me business wise I don't think I have anything no business whatsoever we're about to start our fucking tour tomorrow and San Diego unblooded did you Do you say San Diego?

[198] Yeah, my mom used to call it that.

[199] Did you say San Pinas?

[200] It's unbelievable because it honestly feels like the winter tour just ended two days ago.

[201] It says.

[202] And the, what they're calling the spring tour, which is like, it's fucking January 10th, friends.

[203] We had like our merch company draw us up the poster, like, whatever, and we approved it because we were like, it looks great and it was all snowy and shit.

[204] Yeah.

[205] And then we're like, wait a second, the people who get this in May are going to be like, what the fuck?

[206] They're going to be like, um, thanks for this.

[207] snow, the snow drift pines.

[208] Yeah, let's hold on to it till winter.

[209] What's happening with your spring tour, guys?

[210] Right.

[211] Way to go.

[212] But we're very excited to be out, um, at visiting you and seeing you again.

[213] It's very, it is exciting.

[214] We complain so much.

[215] Oh, we're great at it.

[216] And at the end of this tour, our fucking book comes out.

[217] Yeah.

[218] Of all things.

[219] Yes.

[220] It's very exciting.

[221] I'm really nervous.

[222] I've been giving, we've gotten some like advanced partial copies and I've been giving them to trusted, a couple trusted friends and saying, just tell me the truth, everything.

[223] And then one of them like, Crystal didn't, I thought she read it right away and just didn't text me about it.

[224] You know, that thing.

[225] Well, I'm just going to say nothing.

[226] It was like, oh, shit.

[227] Yeah.

[228] Turns out she's busy and has a life.

[229] Right.

[230] And I'm ready yet when she did.

[231] Yeah, she probably didn't take it and sit home immediately sit down.

[232] Well, that's what I was hoping for.

[233] I know.

[234] I know.

[235] It's very, listen, this is that thing.

[236] this is the thing of like this is why unless somebody I don't listen to criticism from anyone unless they have put their own ass on the line and put their actual creativity out there because it is the hardest thing to do to make something that is of your own and put it out and that's why like people can tell you I hate this I think whatever but it's your vulnerability that they're reading about which is so easy to criticize it well and also if they've never done the same I mean this is straight out of daring greatly by Bray Brown, but if they've never done the same, their opinion can't count because they don't know what it means.

[237] That's right.

[238] So like we wrote a double memoir where we drudge up every stupid fucking thing we've ever done and try to make it entertaining.

[239] And then we, like, I didn't even think about it until people started telling us, oh, I got the advance.

[240] Right.

[241] I like it or whatever where I was like, oh, fuck, I forgot that's public.

[242] Yeah.

[243] And so now we're just stuck in that feeling well that's a good point and i gave my you know cat solon who's designed some of our awesome merch and she also has a tv show on um adult swim called the shivering truth so she fucking puts herself out all the time yeah and she read it and said she started crying three times already so i'm like oh great god bless her yes god bless that's how we want is for you to fucking whimper and ball and into the book yeah exactly it's um yeah it's creepy i think when we did it we just i certainly was not thinking about the actual end result deadline So you poured it all out Here's your homework motherfucker And then you think you're going to walk away And never look, never see it again And then you're like, oh, this again Yeah, great Right Here we go That was vulnerability Corner Corner Corner Corner Corner Corner I'm first You're first Thank God I've only had a half a can of wine I'm going to buck it Bust right into another hundreds and thousands Get in there girl Because the big tour's coming up Yeah Because you know how much people love eating on microphone.

[244] This is the murder of Susan Tarascovitz.

[245] Okay.

[246] Great.

[247] She goes by Sue.

[248] That's what we're going to call her.

[249] Okay, great.

[250] Here she is.

[251] It's 1992.

[252] Sue is 27 years old.

[253] She works for the Northwest Airlines Boston Logan International Airport.

[254] So Northwest Airlines used to be an airline, I'm assuming.

[255] It was.

[256] I used to fly on it.

[257] Also, I believe Boston Logan Airport is pronounced.

[258] announce Worcester if I'm not incorrect with that.

[259] Thank you very much.

[260] So Sue is this lovely all -American gal.

[261] She graduates high school in Saugus, a Massachusetts, fucking downhome Massachusetts gal.

[262] She becomes a reserve firefighter.

[263] And then she gets a job at the airlines.

[264] And within five years, she worked her way up from cleaning airplane cabins to becoming the first woman in the history of the company to hold the position of a ramp supervisor.

[265] Wow.

[266] Yeah.

[267] And like me, you're like, what the fuck is a ramp supervisor?

[268] It sounds great.

[269] Is it those ramps, like she connects the plane to the walkway?

[270] I wrote it down.

[271] Okay.

[272] I wrote, what is that job?

[273] Supervise and coordinate the activities of ground crew in the loading.

[274] So she's fucking supervising everyone in the loading, unloading, securing, and staging of aircraft, cargo, or baggage.

[275] Whoa.

[276] And she, it also, like, has to do with, like, gravity like you i didn't know this you don't just fucking throw suitcases on it's like the heavy ones go here this goes here or else the plane's gonna fucking crash so she's the supervisor of all the people doing that yeah she must be great at tetris oh shit she's just like hold that one there oh right get that l -shaped one over here right the one full of chickens put it in the back that's just a plain square that's fine that can go anywhere so she's the she is the first fucking woman to hold this job so awesome amazing and she's also the own the second ever female ground service employee working for the airline ever.

[277] So she's already fucking breaking glass.

[278] It's so funny because it's also recent.

[279] We're not talking about the 70s.

[280] Yeah.

[281] So Sue, obviously, is super hardworking.

[282] She's like 27 when she fucking accomplishes this.

[283] She's super hard working.

[284] She's intelligent.

[285] She has a big heart.

[286] She's got a ton of chutzpah.

[287] She's a pretty brunette, tall and slim, but feisty.

[288] She once jumped in to break up a fight between two male colleagues.

[289] So she's like, not.

[290] fucking around no she's fine so one of the perks of her job uh just a little bit about her was meeting famous people because they were getting on the plane and she had an autograph book who she would have the famous people sign which is like the most pure hearted thing i've ever heard of in my life right we used to do that have autograph books yes because it's usually you had one as a kid i totally had one yeah um nobody signed it ever well who yeah in irvine look it's the mayor of irvine And you just start getting your friends to sign that.

[291] You're like, can we just fill this thing up?

[292] Yeah.

[293] And my dreams were crushed.

[294] So Sue's dream was to be a cartoonist, but everyone was like, it's really hard to do that.

[295] But she was obsessed with peanuts and had even met Charles Schultz once.

[296] All -American woman, tons of ambition.

[297] And by 27 years old, already paying off.

[298] But this is called the murder of Sue Teroutskowitz, so it doesn't go well.

[299] So on September 12th, 1992, Sue's working her graveyard shift 11 p .m. to 7 fucking a .m. You know, in the freezing cold Boston air.

[300] Around 1 a .m., she leaves the airport to pick up sandwiches at a nearby sandwich shop for the crew.

[301] This is an unsolved mysteries, by the way.

[302] Oh, wow.

[303] Yeah.

[304] She never comes back to work after she goes to get sandwiches and no one ever reports her missing.

[305] And in fact, the really weird thing is her time card reflects that she clocked out at the end of her shift that night and clocked in the next morning.

[306] Okay, so there's an inside element to this.

[307] Yep, but the reality is Sue was missing as of her sandwich run.

[308] So, because of this time card forging, she's not officially reported missing for 36 hours.

[309] When her parents finally realized that she's missing, they go to the police station on the morning of September 14th, it's Monday morning, only to be told that their daughter's body had just been found.

[310] Oh, no. I know, and her parents were like, her mom's amazing.

[311] Sue's blue Toyota Tresel had been found early that morning, Monday morning, parked at an auto body shop in Revere, which is about four miles from the airport.

[312] And the shop had been closed it on Sunday the day before.

[313] So when they got to work that morning, someone noticed that blood was dripping from the trunk of a car.

[314] I know.

[315] And call the police.

[316] It's so awful.

[317] When police arrived, they opened Sue's trunk and found her body inside.

[318] In her own car.

[319] In her own car.

[320] been badly beaten and then stab multiple times.

[321] Awful.

[322] Obviously, okay, so obviously your fucking one of our co -workers or someone had fudged her time card, but why?

[323] Like, I'm sure you did that the before, right?

[324] Your friend's like, I'm running late.

[325] I mean, can you, can you on blur or bleep the, yes, bleep the accusation.

[326] Bleep the place I just mentioned you worked at.

[327] Oh, yeah, like people covering for you or going like, yeah, I don't, can you make sure it doesn't look like I'm 10 minutes late.

[328] Right.

[329] Or I'm leaving three hours early.

[330] Can you clock me out when you leave?

[331] Right.

[332] But that's like for people like working menial jobs that you don't care about.

[333] Not for people who work their way up.

[334] And certainly not for the boss.

[335] I mean, she's in charge of everybody.

[336] Right.

[337] Yeah.

[338] Yeah.

[339] So it's not, doesn't seem like a request she would make or request, you know, whatever.

[340] So, but it wasn't her, her mother, her parents, her mother's name is Marlene.

[341] They weren't even thinking about that question because there was no sign of robbery or rape.

[342] So the family was just led to believe that Sue was the victim of a random crime.

[343] So they didn't even consider the time card.

[344] And her mother, Marlene, lovely fucking woman, she believes all that until late 1993.

[345] So a year later.

[346] So Sue's mother is going through her daughter's old room and discovers Sue's diary.

[347] Oh, oh shit.

[348] Marlene is fucking surprised to read Sue's detailed accounts of the rampant sexual harassment that she had been enduring at work leading up to her murder.

[349] Oh, no. Marlene reads how, and of course, Marlene, I mean, of course, Sue didn't want to worry her family and worry her parents about it, so she just wrote it in her diary.

[350] Her mom had no fucking clue about any of this.

[351] Right.

[352] Marlene reads how Sue's male co -workers and underlings had held a campaign of harassment against her.

[353] They spray -painted obscene graffiti about her on cargo holds and employee bathrooms, and they had vandalized her car.

[354] She frequently complained with the manager or like filed complaints with the management at Northwest Airlines and her union.

[355] But of course, it's fucking 92.

[356] And even now, very little is done.

[357] When Sue continues to launch complaints, she started getting anonymous threatening phone calls in the middle of the night.

[358] Yeah.

[359] And this is before she's promoted to ramp supervisor.

[360] The job originally went to another male employee.

[361] and it turned out that he had illegally bid on the position.

[362] So when she filed a grievance to her union about it, and one, and so this guy got fucking fired from the job, the harassment, of course, got worse.

[363] Yeah.

[364] And to the point where Sue discovered a drawing of a coffin with her name on it, scrawled inside her locker.

[365] Wow.

[366] Isn't this awful?

[367] Yeah.

[368] But also, I think it just goes to show people like to dismiss sexual harassment.

[369] Yeah.

[370] as like, oh, well, you can't hang with the boys or you can't this or that.

[371] But oftentimes, and I've said this to people, I read this, it was worded really well in an article I read once, but it's basically like trying to say to regular guys, you need to notice the dudes that incite this shit because those aren't normal brains.

[372] If there's a person who's like, let's go get her, there needs to be actioned by the dudes that are in the group, but don't feel that way.

[373] Right.

[374] Because they're under their own kind of peer pressure to go along and get along.

[375] Even if it's not like, let's get her, if a guy, you know, if he remarks on her ass or something, it's like even without her hearing, it's that I don't talk like that.

[376] And I don't, you know, that's not how you live.

[377] Or just, how about shut the fuck up every once in a while.

[378] Right.

[379] But sometimes if those pressures or those groups are too intense, then people start going along.

[380] It's making me think about that.

[381] Charlize they're on a coal mining movie.

[382] Oh, yeah.

[383] It's unbelievable.

[384] It's basically, it's similar.

[385] but it's not murder but yeah it's just that idea of like boys when you're in a boys club how those boys clubs can go insane if there's a woman in the mix they go insane they they yeah it's really horrible and it's just you know another example of how being a woman is a threat to your life and to your livelihood it's just being a woman nothing more than that and also having ambition and God forbid totally yeah fucking breaking up the boys club yeah and so in her diary Sue names names of who her harassers were.

[386] Okay.

[387] Thank God.

[388] I know.

[389] Yeah.

[390] So changing the fucking changing gears, switching gears.

[391] It turns out that the month before Sue's murder, several Northwest baggage handlers had been subpoenaed to testify before the federal grand jury because they were investing to theft of hundreds of credit cards that had been shipped on Northwest Airlines flights to Boston and then fucking stolen.

[392] So someone at Boston, when the credit cards got in there on the plane, had stolen those credit cards.

[393] And the credit cards were being used to buy jewelry and get cash advances in casinos and racetracks in Las Vegas, Atlantic City.

[394] Was it Donald Trump?

[395] Those are all his spots.

[396] Probably.

[397] Well, it says this is, I didn't notice this before.

[398] It says Las Vegas, Atlantic City, and Foxwoods in Connecticut.

[399] I don't know what that is.

[400] Foxwoods is a casino.

[401] Is it?

[402] A lot of comics do shows there.

[403] So if you live near, Foxwoods.

[404] Is it like dirty dancing?

[405] You know?

[406] I have no idea.

[407] All I know is that I hear comics going like, oh, I'm going to play Foxwoods.

[408] I'm doing Foxwoods.

[409] And it's apparently a cool gig.

[410] Oh, cool.

[411] Yeah.

[412] That's where I'm vacationing this summer.

[413] Get up there.

[414] They ended up netting, whoever stole it, ended up netting over $7 million.

[415] Jesus.

[416] Uh -huh.

[417] Wow.

[418] And that's 90s money.

[419] That's 90s money, which now we know is worth $31 million.

[420] 100.

[421] So the Secret Service, the FBI, and of course, you know, the fucking superheroes of the world, the U .S. Postal Inspection Service.

[422] Yes.

[423] We're involved in the investigation.

[424] And it turns out that some of the fucking very baggage handlers that Sue names as harassers in her diary are indicted on those stolen credit card charges.

[425] Okay.

[426] How does that connect?

[427] Let's find out.

[428] Right now.

[429] Right now.

[430] The ringleader, he's described in court as the initiator.

[431] at Northwest was a dude named Joseph.

[432] In 1989, before her murder, obviously, Sue had filed a complaint and got him fired for six months, which doesn't seem like a punishment.

[433] Well, that's not being fired if he came back to the job after six months.

[434] He was suspended.

[435] That's exactly right.

[436] Just like your mug says.

[437] That's.

[438] So he retaliated with some of the worst harassment against her.

[439] He's fired again when the subpoenas are handed down in the credit card theft cases in August 1992, and reported told people, he thought, listen, all of this is alleged.

[440] Can I, do I, can I just blanket that now?

[441] Oh, oh, I thought you were saying that's what he said.

[442] No, no, no, guys, this is alleged.

[443] Allegedly said.

[444] No, everything I'm saying about him, he hasn't been charged with any crimes.

[445] Okay.

[446] Well, that's important.

[447] That's important.

[448] But he was, the credit card stuff was real.

[449] Yes.

[450] Okay.

[451] If that's all real, but the, here we go.

[452] Okay.

[453] He told people he thought Sue was a snitch who ratted them out to the authorities.

[454] So he thought she was a snitch for the credit card shit.

[455] Oh.

[456] In reality, Sue actually had no involvement in this whole thing and had never been asked to assist the investigation, but of course, they didn't know that or didn't believe that.

[457] So over the next few years, 37 people, including 10 Northwest baggage handlers, are convicted on federal charges of participating in the stolen credit card ring.

[458] So 10 of those people that Sue was being harassed by are fucking part of this credit card ring that they think she's fucking snatching on.

[459] And then gets murdered.

[460] Okay.

[461] Another baggage handler mentioned in Sue's diary is Robert, who she had a brief affair with.

[462] And after that affair ended, Robert started getting super hostile towards Sue and threatening her new boyfriend and Sue.

[463] And when the subpoenas are handed down for the credit card theft, he gets the fuck out of there and transfers to an airport out of state.

[464] And then he just gets probation because he testifies.

[465] He got a three -year prison sentence for that credit card bullshit.

[466] Okay.

[467] So as for the night of Sue's murder, they're like, maybe this is connected.

[468] did the authorities think.

[469] So this dude, Robert, is questioned about his whereabouts that night.

[470] And he's like, yo, I was at that out of state airport that I work at, working at the airport.

[471] And I had no contact.

[472] Didn't talk to him at all.

[473] But years later, he's indicted on three counts of perjury and two counts of obstruction of justice after they found out that they find his time cards and phone records and prove that he's not working that night.

[474] And another point is before she left for the same.

[475] which ran around 1 a .m., Sue had received a telephone call at work from an unidentified person who wanted to meet her, supposedly.

[476] Uh -oh.

[477] So, like, someone luring her out.

[478] Right.

[479] So, Robert is convicted of obstruction of justice for lying to a federal grand jury that was investigating Sue's death.

[480] He admitted he lied to his whereabouts the weekend of her death, and he was sentenced to 18 months in prison.

[481] And then, of course, a federal appeals court ruling in Rob's case reveals that in 1998, the investigators had named Joe as a possible.

[482] suspect in Sue's murder, and evidence cited showing that he had blamed Sue for the disciplinary action against him years earlier.

[483] He had vandalized her car.

[484] All of this is allegedly vowed to get revenge against her and accused her of being a snitch in the credit card investigation.

[485] So all these fucking things.

[486] But since then, there has been no further action in Sue's case.

[487] Oh, yeah.

[488] It's fucking cold still.

[489] And still open.

[490] Sue's mother Marlene is tenacious as fuck, just like her daughter.

[491] And she's never backed down in the fight.

[492] She's like up front and center fighting for her daughter's justice.

[493] And she says she definitely thinks somebody set her daughter up and thinks that the anonymous call the night of her murder was from someone her daughter trusted, who lured her from the airport to kill her.

[494] And since Sue's murder, Marlene, every single year on the anniversary of Sue's murder, Marlene holds a vigil at Logan Airport.

[495] And you see her, she's carrying a sign with Sue's photo on it, reminding people that this woman who worked here and was last seen here was murdered and advertising a $250 ,000 reward for information leading to the killer's arrest.

[496] Wow.

[497] And I watched a video about it and she says, quote, she says, I'm a very healthy woman.

[498] She's getting older.

[499] She says, I'm a very healthy woman and I'm not going away.

[500] You're going to look over your shoulder until the day that I go, but I will get you and I will get justice for my Susan.

[501] And then, so here's a footnote, if you want to cry.

[502] Remember, Sue would want it to be a cartoonist and had it been a huge fan of Charles Schultz.

[503] Schultz, he drew a snoopy, especially for her that adorns her gravestone.

[504] No. He drew it for her to get on her gravestone.

[505] Oh, my God.

[506] So if you look it up, you can see it because she was such a huge fan of his.

[507] I know.

[508] That's awful.

[509] Sorry.

[510] No, I mean.

[511] But that's that.

[512] I mean, like, it was on an unsolved murder, unsolved mysteries because they, people want information still to this day.

[513] It's still fucking unsolved.

[514] It's one of those ones in the back of my mind that ever, you know, for the past three years that we've done this.

[515] I've always thought of it.

[516] Like, I need to do that one someday.

[517] So it's not okay.

[518] And that's, it's kind of nice that we have this podcast where we can like call attention to these insane cases like the one we did last week of Colin Pitchfork where it's like, how is this person spending less time in jail?

[519] than the person's life who he killed, you know.

[520] He killed a 15 -year -old, and he's getting less than that time that she was alive in jail.

[521] So it's nice to call attention to these fucking insane cases where the suspects are still alive, there's still time to fucking prosecute them, there's got to be more info on them, there's got to be people now willing to talk.

[522] It's a new fucking, it's a different era.

[523] And so that video of the mom with the sign and talking about the reward, that's still current.

[524] Yeah, as of the past like year or two, yeah.

[525] That's amazing.

[526] Yeah.

[527] That's great.

[528] Yeah.

[529] So that's the murder of Sue Tarascowitz.

[530] Wow.

[531] Yeah.

[532] I got this story from friend of the podcast, True Crime Reporter Billy Jensen.

[533] Fuck yeah.

[534] And he reminded me of it.

[535] And then I remembered.

[536] And also, we talk about Wikipedia a lot on this podcast.

[537] Please don't forget about MurderPedia.

[538] Oh, my God.

[539] Because MurderPedia is more dedicated, and they also need money, five, one, five, and ten dollars at a time.

[540] please support Murderpedia.

[541] I feel like I use them just as much.

[542] I use them a lot.

[543] And they do that thing where it'll just be like seven articles in a row.

[544] I love it.

[545] There's not a ton of like this, this, this, this fact.

[546] It's just article after article.

[547] Articles and chronological timelines, which helped me a lot.

[548] So anyway, I looked this up on Murderpedia to get the details.

[549] And one of the first things it listed on there was that this case was featured on the E -series Curse of the Lottery.

[550] and then I remembered seeing it and their own eyeballs with my eyeballs and then I was like oh this is such a sad fucked up story I gotta tell Georgia I didn't know that was a show and I don't know this story and I'm here for it okay thank you your presence is required it is basically the whole point of this podcast it's the podcast we talk to each other you have to pay attention to me yeah this I think this show the curse of the lottery is from a little while I bet.

[551] But, um, this story is crazy.

[552] So, so basically on November 15th, 2006, 41 year old Abraham Shakespeare was a food delivery driver, like a truck driver.

[553] So I think it was more like for the grocery store type of food.

[554] Um, he was making $8 an hour.

[555] And he had $5 in his wallet.

[556] Oh my God.

[557] Um, he and his co -worker Michael Ford were headed toward Miami.

[558] They stopped at a town star convenience store in, frost -proof Florida.

[559] Sure, where we all go for vacation for summer.

[560] For summer.

[561] After we go to the Fox Glove.

[562] A Fox Glove casino.

[563] Then we head down to Florida to frost -proof.

[564] To frost -proof.

[565] And we get some popsicles that don't have ice on them.

[566] So the two truck, they stop the truck.

[567] They go into the Town Star Convenience to buy drinks and cigarettes.

[568] Sure.

[569] And when Michael Ford gets out of the truck, I said they get out.

[570] But Ford gets out and he asks Shakespeare.

[571] if he wants a soda.

[572] And Shakespeare says, and don't buy me that, get me two lottery tickets.

[573] Hell yeah.

[574] Hands him that last $5 out of his wallet.

[575] So I just can picture him saying it in like a Shakespeare soliloquy.

[576] Forsooth.

[577] There's something like that.

[578] The look of the something, you know, that's all I got.

[579] The luck of the really wide pants.

[580] So that week, the Florida lotto jackpot was $30 million.

[581] And Abraham Shakespeare fucking won it.

[582] All of it?

[583] He won $30 million.

[584] He said $300.

[585] No, I said $30.

[586] I heard $300.

[587] Did I say penis or did I say $30?

[588] Holy shit.

[589] He fucking wins in Frostburg, Florida.

[590] $30 million.

[591] You know Vince and I play regularly.

[592] Regularly.

[593] You can't win if you don't play.

[594] That's exactly right.

[595] It's almost like they should use that as their quote.

[596] It's almost like we play regularly.

[597] My mom has played every week since I was a kid.

[598] My whole family plays.

[599] Same numbers every time?

[600] Yes, because there's, well, she does a couple different systems.

[601] Okay.

[602] But she's always got them stuck on her refrigerator.

[603] And it's like, there's one where it's everybody's birthday number.

[604] It's pretty sweet.

[605] She'll be like, this number, this number, the year da -da -da, and all three of your birthdays.

[606] I mean, because also it's going to be so sweet if that pays off that one time where it's like, so yes.

[607] Yes.

[608] I think that's, I mean, that's the fun of the lottery.

[609] Now, the other way to look at it, which is my favorite Craig Anton joke, is the lottery is like a tax for stupid people.

[610] But it does go, actually, in California, I don't know, because it goes to fixing the roads.

[611] Schools, I meant.

[612] Fixing the road on the way to school.

[613] That school road that's so bumpy.

[614] You know, that the kids all learn on.

[615] Right?

[616] They learn math on.

[617] Okay.

[618] So now he's a lottery winner.

[619] Everybody thinks that that's the dream come true.

[620] Yeah.

[621] But as we learn in the E, the E, the E, series, the curse of the lottery, it's rarely fucking true.

[622] See, this fake fucking HG TV show where this fucking dude takes these new lotto winners to their new home, like shows them homes to buy.

[623] I'm not explaining this well.

[624] Is this real?

[625] I swear to God.

[626] Stephen, will you look up with the fucking...

[627] There's a new show called, like, you won the lottery, now here's your new mansion?

[628] Yeah, buy a mansion with all that fucking lottery winnings, it's called.

[629] That's how aspirational and satisfying would it be to watch that show?

[630] It's great.

[631] this is this this my lottery dream home look at this guy say the name of the host he's fabulous oh my gosh he should be one of that jacket made of gold it probably is he he looks like one he should be one of the fab five of a queer i yeah david bramstad love you david and so he's just like this staircase leads to another safe he's fabulous wow but every house is in las Vegas probably and it's like they won and it's a number that you couldn't buy a house for in L .A. You know, you're like...

[632] All still too low.

[633] Sorry.

[634] No, no. Because, see, that's the thing, is that everybody's like, there's been a couple series, I think, about winning the lottery.

[635] Because then there's some people who they do fine with it.

[636] They're probably people who have a little bit of experience with money or at least have learned some lessons.

[637] The smart people, you can be anonymous, too.

[638] Exactly.

[639] But when you don't have anything your whole life and then suddenly you get $30 million, it's very, right?

[640] It's very easy to mismanage yourself.

[641] Yes.

[642] And to, like I did the first time I had a large sum of money paid to me when I first moved to Los Angeles.

[643] I got a holding deal.

[644] Your first entertainment industry job that was like stupid money jobs.

[645] To me, it was stupid money.

[646] Now it was zero money.

[647] And I was like, the rent's on me, everybody.

[648] Let's do this thing.

[649] It's cartons of cigarettes for all my friends and fake cigarettes for my other friends.

[650] So.

[651] Okay.

[652] For your fake friends.

[653] So Abraham.

[654] Shakespeare, the thing about him is he's a really good person.

[655] Great.

[656] So he immediately is like a party at my house.

[657] He buys a new house.

[658] Okay, so he does the thing.

[659] He has the choice between the one -time lump sum cash payment of $17 million.

[660] Take that.

[661] Or 30 annual payments of $30 million.

[662] So a million dollars a year.

[663] Take that one.

[664] Two or one.

[665] I would pick.

[666] Let's see, he clearly fucks up.

[667] So I'm going to say what I would pick.

[668] I'm going to do the lump sum.

[669] Yep.

[670] That's exactly right.

[671] Okay.

[672] He does it.

[673] Now that I, now that we've named our podcast network that, I hear myself saying it.

[674] I didn't realize I say it that much.

[675] We do.

[676] Okay.

[677] So he goes lump sum, 17 mil.

[678] And then here's what he buys.

[679] He moves out of his working class neighborhood in Lakeland, Florida.

[680] Yeah, you do.

[681] And he buys a $1 .1 million house in a gated community in North Lakeland.

[682] See, a Florida $1 .1 million, and there's the income tax thing.

[683] they don't have, which is why all these professional wrestlers live there.

[684] Is that right?

[685] Yeah.

[686] That's an insane amount of money for a house there, right?

[687] I'm sure.

[688] 1 .1.

[689] Yeah.

[690] For sure.

[691] The only other things he buys are a Rolex from a pawn shop and a Nissan Ultima.

[692] Oh, my God, I love him.

[693] And then he starts lending his friends.

[694] He pays for everything.

[695] He has people at his house.

[696] He lets people stay at his house.

[697] He lends money hand over fist.

[698] He pays for people's funerals.

[699] he he there's one guy like people are dying around him and he's just like I got this I got this you guys yeah it's not a round of drinks at a bar holy shit there's one guy you were going to say but a one guy owed him a million dollars what like he lent somebody a million dollars yeah so it was the kind of thing where I'm sure he had a lot of guilt about winning or like having that money or didn't want to become a monster yeah so he over did it right so he has this house where basically it's a nonstop party and there's these people all over the place.

[700] When after a while, of course, he starts confiding to, like, his close friends and family members that he is miserable.

[701] He was happier before, before he won the lottery, and that he just wants to get away.

[702] Yeah.

[703] So basically, April of 2007.

[704] It's like a year later.

[705] Well, yeah.

[706] It happened at the end of 2006, November.

[707] Holy shit.

[708] So it's like, yeah, it's basically five months later.

[709] That's a lot of money to spend in a very short amount of time.

[710] yes um he in four months later michael ford the guy that was with him the day he bought that winning lottery ticket tells him he wants at least a million dollars but of course abraham shakespeare's like yeah no i'm not giving you a million dollars because you were there and he goes fine i'll sue you and he takes him to court claiming that abraham actually stole those two tickets out of ford's wallet and that they were his tickets that were stolen yeah so um October 19th, 2007, they go to court.

[711] No. And it takes the jury a little over an hour to rule that Abraham Shakespeare did not steal that winning ticket and that he doesn't owe Michael Ford any money.

[712] Sure.

[713] But the money at this point is starting to run out, as it will, paying for funerals, lending money, all that stuff.

[714] Yeah, it goes.

[715] You spend it and it's gone.

[716] Oh, the guy that he gave a million dollars.

[717] $1 too was a known only as Big Man. There's no actual name.

[718] When I meet a guy named Big Man, I just want to give him money.

[719] You're like, buddy, I want to bankroll you as a human being.

[720] Okay, so in October of 2008, a 40 -year -old woman named Dede Moore reaches out to Abraham Shakespeare.

[721] Now, Abraham Shakespeare is basically, like, locked himself in his mansion.

[722] He's, like, he's had to kick out all these people.

[723] His generosity has gotten him nothing but more problems.

[724] Uh -huh.

[725] Well, then this woman named D .D. Moore shows up.

[726] says that she's writing a book about how people have been taking advantage of him as a lottery winner.

[727] So he starts telling his story.

[728] And she must have been an amazing psychopath because within she convinces him to let her be his financial advisor.

[729] No. And within three months, the ownership of Abraham Shakespeare's home had been transferred to a company called American Metal medical professionals.

[730] Fake.

[731] Right?

[732] And that turns out that's D .D. Moore's company.

[733] Shit.

[734] So she basically convinces him that he won't have to pay taxes if he puts his money into an LLC and it's called Abraham Shakespeare LLC.

[735] So it's basically she starts a corporation for him.

[736] Okay, but it's under her name?

[737] Well, no. It'd be, in the beginning it's under his name.

[738] She says, put your money here.

[739] You won't have to pay taxes.

[740] You won't have to pay child support.

[741] Uh -oh.

[742] You won't have to do.

[743] She's basically...

[744] Everyone, don't try to get out of paying child support, please.

[745] Or taxes.

[746] Oh, I'm sorry.

[747] I meant...

[748] I meant taxes or child.

[749] Well, you're...

[750] Fuck the government.

[751] Sorry.

[752] You're about kids first.

[753] But all of the...

[754] It's like, especially when you're up in this amount of money, they're paying attention to every dime that you spend.

[755] And eventually, she moves into his house.

[756] The title of his house is signed over to her.

[757] Nope.

[758] So, yeah.

[759] So we're having a problem.

[760] Well, it's not signed over to her, though.

[761] It's signed over to American.

[762] professional.

[763] They're professionals.

[764] Doctors everywhere.

[765] Okay.

[766] So Abraham Shakespeare is last seen in the Lakeland area in April of 2009.

[767] And later the police find that he last used his cell phone on April 6th, 2009.

[768] But even though no one knows where he is and he disappeared and he's not at home, his family's getting texts from him saying that he's just laying low, don't worry about me. Well, they think that's weird because Abraham never learned a reader right.

[769] He dropped out of school, like, in junior high.

[770] And so they're like, maybe he's getting someone to do it.

[771] Like, they're just like, what?

[772] Like he had never texts before, so then suddenly they're like.

[773] Yeah, they're just kind of like something's off because he just is gone.

[774] I was thinking about how you should go out more because if people get, if someone kills you and starts writing, hey, I'm just going to stay home tonight text.

[775] People, they'll believe it.

[776] Oh, yeah.

[777] They won't be like, thanks for laying that out in black and white.

[778] Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[779] No, I've actually made that joke before that in every.

[780] true crime show, they go, I knew something was wrong because that night she didn't call me back.

[781] I can tell she was home and she didn't answer the door.

[782] It's so unlike her where I'm like, oh my God, I can just picture my dad going, yeah, I simply don't hear from her for weeks at a time.

[783] I text her, she doesn't respond.

[784] I'm super funny.

[785] She won't say anything to me. She can't explain her whereabouts.

[786] So we didn't know anything was a mess.

[787] And I'm laying in a ditch like, God damn it, if I was only more polite.

[788] I should have been an extrovert.

[789] Why am I a hermit?

[790] I deserve what I'm getting.

[791] Okay, so that November, Abraham's cousin files a missing person's report because he's like, okay, it's been long enough.

[792] He would have either come back, connected, made an actual phone call or whatever.

[793] He explained to the police, they were hoping that he had gone to the Caribbean because he had been saying he wanted to do that basically since he won the money.

[794] Yeah, he was like, fuck, he wanted to fuck off.

[795] Yeah.

[796] And because they were getting those texts.

[797] It was almost that thing of like, well, this is weird, but at the same time, at least we're hearing from him.

[798] Yeah.

[799] So best case scenario.

[800] But then his cousin said they were just like, no, something's wrong.

[801] Right, yeah, yeah.

[802] So on November 12th, 2009, detectives go interview Dee Dee Moore because they find that she's right in the center of all of his business.

[803] She's everything signed over to her.

[804] She's living in his house.

[805] They're like, all right, we're going to have a chat with you.

[806] She explains to them that she started the corporate account for him and that she was paying him in cash out of that account basically because she was better at business and she was going to be the one.

[807] She was this financial manager.

[808] Look, I have a company that has a name professional in it.

[809] Right?

[810] That's how you can tell.

[811] It's me, the one who should be in charge of your money because of the name of a thing I made up.

[812] She denies having anything to do with his disappearance, but she explains she took over his assets, which at the time were like $3 .5 million, plus the mansion, plus all the money people owed him, which counted because it was their plan of getting people away from him asking him for money.

[813] Right.

[814] He's like, I don't even have control over it.

[815] Yeah, she's old.

[816] I put D .D. in charge.

[817] I met her three months ago.

[818] She also claimed that she set things up the way she did because Shakespeare didn't want to pay child support and because he had a drug problem and he would just use the money for drugs.

[819] So that's why she took all of his stuff and didn't pay him.

[820] There's no, all the money goes into her that account and then doesn't go back out.

[821] She takes his, she sets up Abraham Shakespeare LLC and then takes his name off and it's her account now.

[822] Fuck.

[823] And then when the cops are like, so anyway, let's walk this day.

[824] And then she's like, yeah, no, he wanted, that's what he wanted.

[825] Yeah.

[826] He wanted me to have everything.

[827] That leopard print couch I bought that's over there.

[828] He supported me in all of my choices.

[829] So this is where around the time is where our friends over at web sleuths come into the mix.

[830] You guys?

[831] And this is the Billy Jensen element because he's all about that.

[832] It's all the twists and turn.

[833] I forgot about Billy even.

[834] Oh my God.

[835] So on the web sleuths board, somebody posts a news article about a missing Florida man who named Abraham Shakespeare, who had won $30 million in the lottery, blew through most of the money and now had disappeared.

[836] so the citizen detectives of course dig in and they see that he's hired dd more as the financial advisor so then they start going into her financial and property records and posting them on the site um noting that her bank account reflects that she has come into a lot of money recently how do you find that this is that shit they do that they're so good at oh you like this is their jam i hope they only use our powers for good and not evil just want to put that out there um yeah please let's everybody stay above board stay off the dark web come on nothing good that can come out of it please you don't need to buy that arm you don't need more photos of feet you can get those anywhere go to uh wikyfeet dot com so google my name in there okay so february 21st 2009 they find dd more has bought a 2008 uh corvette uh -huh um for her boyfriend for $70 ,000.

[837] Jesus.

[838] She paid with a cashier's check from her American medical professionals business account.

[839] It's a right -off.

[840] Yeah, right.

[841] A month later, it's a tax break.

[842] A month later, she buys a 2009 Hummer for 90 grand.

[843] Holy!

[844] Hummer's more than a Corvette?

[845] Yeah, girl, yeah.

[846] I don't know anything about cars.

[847] 20 grand more.

[848] Once you get over two grand, that's the most I've ever paid for a car, like, at once is $1 ,600.

[849] I think because Hummers are like you can shoot an AK -47 into the side of them and be fine.

[850] They're talking to end -dazers who are like, yeah, we need to keep safe.

[851] Mad -Math shit.

[852] Yeah, yeah.

[853] Whereas in a Corvette, you're like, oh, the sunroofs off.

[854] I've been killed.

[855] Okay.

[856] So, this is amazing.

[857] So, and she buys a house.

[858] It's all the stuff and they're just like, well, this is interesting because here she is and here's all her shit.

[859] Uh -huh.

[860] And his money's gone.

[861] So once all these posts start going up, somebody logs on to WebSloose and begins to defend Dede Moore, offering up even more incriminating evidence against her as they're trying to defend her.

[862] So, of course, our citizen detectives track the IP address of the defender down.

[863] And lo and behold, it's D .D. Moore.

[864] It's so stupid what people think that people can't get away.

[865] Like, you can't get away with this shit, dude.

[866] No. Don't fucking try.

[867] Don't try.

[868] It's so dumb.

[869] And also, it's that thing of, which I think, especially in the internet age, we've more and more is people, you don't know what you don't know.

[870] Yeah.

[871] So you're going on to WebSloos like, I got this.

[872] I changed my IP address.

[873] Well, they can see who bought that IP address and it still leads back to you.

[874] D .D., unless you work at MIT in the computer lab, I wouldn't go up against the WebSloose.

[875] Let's not.

[876] Let's not.

[877] Okay, so the citizen detective sent all of this to the police, obviously.

[878] A couple days after Christmas of this year.

[879] This year?

[880] No, sorry.

[881] Of that year.

[882] Great.

[883] of this year I was talking about 10 minutes again Remember you told the whole story That current story?

[884] Yes, that was 12 years old I'll never forget it The bags of leaves in the living room I was like, yeah, we were both in the city But I'm the one that found this brand new breaking story They're like, Karen, we hate to inform you You fucking idiot Okay A couple days after Christmas, 2009 Got it D .D. Moore takes Abraham Shakespeare mother Elizabeth Walker out to eat.

[885] This is the devious shit.

[886] His mommy?

[887] Yes, his mommy.

[888] And during the meal, she receives a phone call from someone.

[889] No. Who says, it's me, Abraham Shakespeare, just calling to say I'm fine.

[890] So then she's like, oh, he called me. Everything's okay.

[891] The next day, the detectives, uh, interview Abraham Shakespeare's friend Gregory Smith, who, it turned out, was already an informant.

[892] yeah I mean he had a record and he was already kind of there and he they basically get out of him that he was paid by Dedy Moore to impersonate Abraham and call his mother to say he's fine so since he's already an informant they're like all right you did that you won't you won't get in trouble if you now wear a wire and we need to get this woman and we need to get some good information from her He's like, I want to help.

[893] He was my friend.

[894] He loaned, he loaned.

[895] Was this guy a big man?

[896] Gregory Smith, he wasn't big man, but he did loan him $60 ,000.

[897] Holy shit.

[898] So he said, like, I'd been a part of it, but I realized I needed to do the right thing and help.

[899] So basically, they say, you need to get close to her and get good information.

[900] And thank God they did.

[901] Because a month later, D .D. Moore asks Gregory Smith, if he knows anyone who'd admit to law enforcement, they were responsible for killing a. Abraham Shakespeare for money and Gregor Smith's like yeah I do let me get back to you with some names and hundreds and hundreds of people hundreds and thousands of people hundreds of thousands because she was like is there somebody that's like a prisoner that'll just do this right it'll take the fall I'll pay their I'll give their family money yeah you know free and clear hey so on January 21st 2010 an officer named Mike Smith um goes undercover as a guy who will admit to the murder for money.

[902] Fun.

[903] A .k .a. the dumbest man in the world.

[904] Not the actual officer.

[905] That's someone who would do that.

[906] You're not calling Mike.

[907] I'm not calling officer Mike Smith of the Lake Wales, Florida Police Department, the dumbest man in the world.

[908] Never would I do that.

[909] You're calling someone who would, whatever.

[910] Yes.

[911] We get it.

[912] Do we get it?

[913] Don't we?

[914] So, D .D. agrees to pay him 50 grand to confess to law enforcement that he is responsible.

[915] And Mike Smith, undercover, tells Deity, I'll do this if you just tell me where you put his body.

[916] At that moment that she didn't go, huh, why do you need to know that as a prisoner?

[917] I wonder, well, it's the, it's the cocky confidence of I'll never get caught so I never, I'm never suspicious.

[918] Because I'm so fucking cocky.

[919] I'm masterminding this because I'm a true psychopath.

[920] I'm not going to get caught for this shit.

[921] I'm a mastermind.

[922] I'm the smartest person on the planet.

[923] Look.

[924] So in January 25th, D .D. meets back up with Gregory Smith, who's working with undercover cop Mike Smith.

[925] And she shows him the concrete slab in the backyard of her ex -boyfriend's house.

[926] And she says he's buried underneath there.

[927] Oh, shit.

[928] Uh -huh.

[929] She also gives Gregory Smith the 38 Smith and Wesson, which she used to kill him.

[930] She did it.

[931] yeah I guess spoiler alert um so immediately the cops go to that location they excavate that concrete slab and uh they find underneath they find Abraham Shakespeare the body of Abraham Shakespeare is buried underneath his concrete slab he's been shot twice fucking concrete slabs man it's such a dumb idea so what happens is they get her uh Didy Moore's ex -boyfriend yeah um they interview him and he says the deedy called him during the first two weeks of April asking to dig a hole in the yard as you do as one would because she needs to bury concrete and trash in it uh -huh he digs the hole and he leaves she calls him no idea i thought it's gonna be a body in she she calls him back two hours later to fill the hole back in and he tells police because it was nighttime he didn't see what was in it so he just filled it in and walked away the end sounds about right yeah sounds on the level so on February 2nd, 2010, D .D. Moore is arrested.

[932] And the judge sets her bond at a million dollars.

[933] And then she's charged with first degree murder.

[934] She pleads not guilty.

[935] And December 10th, 2012 is when the trial starts.

[936] And at the beginning of the trial, the judge, Emmett Battles.

[937] Oh, my God.

[938] Amazing.

[939] Can you see him?

[940] In his, he looked, to me, he looks like Colonel Sanders.

[941] To me, he's a civil war reenactor.

[942] Yes.

[943] For sure.

[944] So we got mutton chops on all sides of the head.

[945] During the week, it's like, it's like having a mullet.

[946] It's like, and you're in a business suit.

[947] Yeah.

[948] But you have mutton chops and you're, I don't know where I'm going with this.

[949] It's just something.

[950] You were seeing a vision in your head of epic battles and you were talking through it.

[951] I like it.

[952] He tells the jury you can convict her on a lesser charge.

[953] Don't do it.

[954] Don't do it.

[955] So they start the trial.

[956] Dede's attorney tells us.

[957] the jury that she was just trying to help protect Abraham Shakespeare and his assets from a pending child support case when in the middle of all that he was killed by drug dealers who no one's looking for because they're attacking her.

[958] Unfortunately, detectives had found CCTV footage of her buying plastic sheeting and duct tape.

[959] I don't care what you're actually doing that's on the level.

[960] Don't ever buy that shit.

[961] No. You know?

[962] Leave your duffel bag at home.

[963] Like all of it.

[964] You certainly can't do it in combination.

[965] Zip ties, duct tape.

[966] You know, we have zip ties all over the house and it's making me really uncomfortable because we use them for the live show banner.

[967] Oh, I'm probably going to have to call the cops.

[968] I wish you would.

[969] I don't know why anyone hasn't yet.

[970] Quickly.

[971] Okay, so that's a bunch of bullshit.

[972] Everyone knows it immediately.

[973] Then they're just like, here's her doing all this crazy shit.

[974] And also, here's a detailed record of the, finances and where it went and how it went there and are you stupid and thanks web sleuths and thanks web sleuth at one point this is just a side fun fact at one point dd more is briefly banned from the courtroom over concerns that she may have threatened jurors oh dear diddy diddy don't double down at this point please she didn't give a shit um but she came back a short time later for closing she's like sorry sorry guys i i won't kill your family Pinky swear.

[975] The jury deliberates for three hours before D .D. Moore is found guilty of first -degree murder.

[976] She's sentenced to mandatory life without parole.

[977] Yes.

[978] That's that verdict you're always looking for.

[979] And following the verdict, the judge calls D .D., quote, the most manipulative person he's ever seen.

[980] And he describes her as, quote, cold, calculating, and cruel.

[981] Wow.

[982] That is the story of the murder of Abraham Shakespeare.

[983] and watch that curse of the lottery because it's really it actually goes into much more about how giving and kind he was and how except for to his kids for child support well we don't know do we we don't know the details of it because actually $5 ,000 was paid to Abraham's ex -wife in the name of his child okay so we don't I'm not we don't know we don't I'm not judging you're about to spill coffee on Stephen's quitman let's not take what what Didi tried to say.

[984] I actually also just love the name Didi as a villain from Florida.

[985] Well, it's fucking Didi Blanchard, too.

[986] That's right.

[987] Didi's are bad news, which is one of Doddy's nicknames.

[988] Yeah.

[989] She's a good girl.

[990] She does her best.

[991] She tries very hard.

[992] Twist and turns.

[993] Right?

[994] That goes to show you.

[995] Take the yearly payout.

[996] Take that yearly payout and make your own corporation disappear i love also the idea of just naming your corporation like karen kilgariff LLC it's like you can make up anything yeah or like just put the word professional in it just put how about professional professional professionals ink oh that's good why don't we name our podcast network professional professionals well we'll call some people fuck shit man twist and turns right that's a good one what's your fucking hooray for this Hundreds and thousands.

[997] Australian cookies of all kinds.

[998] Let me think.

[999] Actually, let me think.

[1000] You have one?

[1001] Yeah, you want me to do mine?

[1002] I would love you to do yours.

[1003] Well, I have two, but they're both the media ones that we like.

[1004] First of all, my friend told me to listen to a podcast.

[1005] It's from Wondry, and it's called Gladiator.

[1006] Oh, I'm listening to that.

[1007] Are you listening to it?

[1008] I am.

[1009] Is it because I told you to?

[1010] No. God damn it.

[1011] It is a, it's a. called Gladiator and it's about Aaron Hernandez who was one of the New England Patriots and he ended up going to jail for murder well just listen to it because I was just going to spoil the hell out of it but it's a really really beautifully done podcast at Wondry by a team of people and here's a thing and I maybe newspapers are onto this already but if they're not please tell them this is the way that newspapers can come back because like all those like from the Australian the teacher's pet series.

[1012] That's right.

[1013] Now you've got this one that's out of the Boston Globe.

[1014] There's the Bear Brook podcast that I love that's is from a newspaper too.

[1015] Is it?

[1016] Mm -hmm.

[1017] Yeah, this one is the Boston Globe, the spotlight department, which is the one that did the big expose on the molesting priests.

[1018] Oh, I listened to it.

[1019] There's a podcast about that.

[1020] No, nope.

[1021] That's something different.

[1022] Okay.

[1023] So basically it's the spotlight department where it's the investigative department, but now they're fucking making podcast.

[1024] Can we get Skip Hollinsworth on this fucking beat there?

[1025] Or Skip Hollinsworth from Texas Monthly?

[1026] Maybe.

[1027] But my thing is that kind of investigative journalism transferred directly to podcasting.

[1028] Totally.

[1029] It's beautiful.

[1030] And the person that hosted, I'm sorry I don't know his name offhand, but he is a reporter from the Boston Globe that is basically hosting his own research.

[1031] And it's a beautifully done thing.

[1032] There's a whole team of people.

[1033] It's great.

[1034] Listen, there are think pieces everywhere.

[1035] Right?

[1036] And then the other one is just, it was recommended to me on Twitter about two weeks ago.

[1037] It's a Netflix series called Dairy Girls.

[1038] Oh, yeah.

[1039] And it's about a group of high school girls in Belfast in the 90s.

[1040] And it's fucking hilarious and beautifully done.

[1041] And I love it so much.

[1042] And please watch it if you're in the mood for something fun.

[1043] Okay.

[1044] I'm going to do it.

[1045] Do it.

[1046] Let's see.

[1047] Oh, so you know how I told you back when we recorded in December about, the hashtag that I had gotten from Jen gotch that I stole her idea of showing your meds in your hand.

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] And then hashtag it.

[1050] Someone suggested my favorite meds.

[1051] And I was like, this is great.

[1052] And then people start that's stolen actually.

[1053] From us.

[1054] You're like, no, you're taking Jen Gosh's thing.

[1055] And like, now it's my thing.

[1056] My favorite meds.

[1057] She put the meds in.

[1058] And I was like, that's a great idea.

[1059] And I did it.

[1060] And I said, I got it from her.

[1061] And then let's hashtag it and show her fucking meds off.

[1062] And so people have been doing that.

[1063] And I've been reading all these beautiful like stories of becoming you know realizing you need help and all this stuff and it made me realize that my meds aren't working the way like reading all these people like their accounts of how much it's helped them make me made me realize my shit's not helping me yeah so I went back to my psychiatrist and I'm changing medications it's going to take months it's like a fucking long process um but I'm doing that and it's it's so funny that I was like that I copied Jen and was like this is a thing and then I'm like oh I like I got something out of it too yeah That's a big thing to get out of it.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] That's huge.

[1066] Everyone was like, my life has changed.

[1067] I do this, I do that.

[1068] And I'm like, I still feel pretty fucking shitty.

[1069] Yeah.

[1070] And I thought it was just like, that's what I get.

[1071] And it's not.

[1072] Well, and also I think so much has been going on in your life.

[1073] Yeah.

[1074] That this, it's normal to feel stressed.

[1075] It's normal to feel scared.

[1076] It's normal to be overwhelmed.

[1077] Right.

[1078] That then you can't, you don't, you don't have a normal stasis or whatever they would call that anymore.

[1079] Yeah.

[1080] And it's the thing of like, well, my my baseline of everything is fine is not other people's baselines of everything is good.

[1081] So it's like, yes, you're doing much better and you feel better than you wouldn't, if you wouldn't be on meds.

[1082] But that doesn't mean that that's where you need to settle.

[1083] Yes.

[1084] You know, it's like you can, you can strive for more than that.

[1085] So I'm striving for Zoloft to make better than FXOR.

[1086] That's awesome.

[1087] Are you going to get the zaps if you go off FXOR?

[1088] That's why it's taking a very long time to do it.

[1089] Because you have to Slowly.

[1090] So slowly.

[1091] That makes sense.

[1092] Well, good though.

[1093] Fuck it.

[1094] Great.

[1095] And also great that something like that, you don't have to feel weird about any of the shit anymore.

[1096] Never.

[1097] There's no need.

[1098] It's so funny that you don't, I didn't realize how many people were ashamed of it or didn't talk about it.

[1099] Or it's like so natural to me that I didn't even think to talk about it.

[1100] Right.

[1101] Because it's normal.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] Because who cares?

[1104] It gives a shit.

[1105] Make fucking strive for your best.

[1106] And also, I remember one time saying something out loud about my therapist at it, at my dad's house.

[1107] And my cousin who was there was like, what?

[1108] And the reaction you had was so weird.

[1109] And instead of like being offended or ashamed or anything, I just remember sitting there going, oh, no. You poor thing.

[1110] Well, like, it's not 1945.

[1111] Like, you don't, as scary as the idea of it might be to you.

[1112] Don't negate people or like, don't try to make people feel bad who.

[1113] are trying to make themselves feel better.

[1114] Shaming you.

[1115] I just in the beginning felt weird about being like, oh, well, mine invents his therapist, because it, you know, in the beginning it was like, oh, I'm telling people that we have a bad relationship, which is the opposite.

[1116] We're going so that we have a better relationship.

[1117] Right.

[1118] And starting from a good point instead of starting from the fucking bottom.

[1119] Everybody has to learn how to communicate.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] That's just how it is.

[1122] Oh, my God.

[1123] We've, it's looking back at how we communicated, which was just to not make the other person feel bad.

[1124] So we never said what we wanted because we just don't want to hurt each other.

[1125] Ew.

[1126] It just, yeah, it didn't work.

[1127] So that's horrible.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] So, yeah, when I, when I, when I, now I don't give a shit.

[1130] I say it all the time.

[1131] Like our therapist just to normalize it.

[1132] Well, and also, I think those, the standards by which people judge things are so stupid like what people post on Facebook about their family, which is like, yeah, there's no bigger red flag than when people are consistently like, we're having the best and we love each and the, where it's like, where it's Why?

[1133] Why are you doing that?

[1134] Where it's like, it doesn't, that doesn't make it happen.

[1135] We know your baby just had an explosive diarrhea out of its diaper.

[1136] That's a fucking reality.

[1137] The reality is half the time you hate the person that you're married to.

[1138] Oh, no. Sorry.

[1139] I mean, like, the reality is life is hard.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] You fuck up.

[1142] They fuck up.

[1143] And then you fix it.

[1144] It's all about fixing it and moving on and getting stronger because of the fix.

[1145] Totally.

[1146] Totally.

[1147] I didn't make that up.

[1148] That's why you and I go to therapy to guess.

[1149] Exactly.

[1150] No, seriously, because we, as much as we get along, we are absolutely opposite people.

[1151] Our therapist says we are the perfect triggers for each other.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] We absolutely are.

[1154] And there are things that like if we didn't have a person, it's not even like learning to go like, you need to be nice or you need to do this.

[1155] It's like the bigger lesson of your intent is not the same thing as the impact what you do has.

[1156] And that lesson is humongous.

[1157] And your reaction is coming from a place to fight or flight, not from conversation or from working shit out.

[1158] Or the present.

[1159] Because it's triggering.

[1160] Yes.

[1161] If you're triggered, you're in like 20 years ago.

[1162] You're doing a totally different thing.

[1163] And you need help.

[1164] We all need help with relationships.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] Yeah.

[1167] They're fucking hard, man. I mean, I'm the expert because I'm divorced.

[1168] So please.

[1169] listen to everything I said.

[1170] Did you guys go to therapy ever?

[1171] Together?

[1172] I can't talk about it.

[1173] Great.

[1174] She signed the non -disclosure agreement.

[1175] She got child's $5 ,000 in child support and piece the fuck out of it.

[1176] And he's buried in my backyard.

[1177] Stop it.

[1178] I always wonder what that concrete slab was.

[1179] No, that's decorative.

[1180] You told me you were putting your trash in there and it came over one night and filled it with concrete.

[1181] This is my dark.

[1182] Concrete slab that I have concrete buried underneath.

[1183] I couldn't see anything.

[1184] Yeah, because I only invite people over in the dark.

[1185] Damn it.

[1186] I feel had.

[1187] Listen, I understand.

[1188] We'll talk about it in therapy.

[1189] So I feel really angry at Georgia because she feels sad.

[1190] Barry a body.

[1191] And I just feel like it's triggering.

[1192] But was it a body or was it concrete?

[1193] I'll never know.

[1194] Dump your concrete under this concrete slab is what Dedy tried to tell.

[1195] Honey, please.

[1196] This is where I dump my concrete.

[1197] Lady.

[1198] Thanks for listening.

[1199] Thanks to Stephen Ray Morris for so many edits at fucking 11 o 'clock at night, the night before we're posting.

[1200] Stephen.

[1201] Thank you.

[1202] Stephen, do you know we love you?

[1203] We love you, Stephen.

[1204] I think we need to start thanking Stephen.

[1205] Because people do that at the end of podcast, this has been edited by so -and -so and brought to you by Voo -Bu -Bu.

[1206] And music by Karen Kilgareff.

[1207] Okay, do it, do it.

[1208] I just did it.

[1209] Oh.

[1210] Music by Karen Kilgarevarev.

[1211] Special thanks to Stephen Ray Morris for the fucking editing and shit.

[1212] For the amount of editing, it doesn't even make sense.

[1213] or like, can you please put that back together and we've just had to do some fixes.

[1214] Look, listen.

[1215] Stay sexy.

[1216] And don't get murdered.

[1217] Goodbye.

[1218] Elvis, you want a cookie?

[1219] That was great.