197 - Grandma Surprise

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome.

[2] To my favorite murder.

[3] That's Georgia Hard Stark.

[4] That's Karen Killed Kare.

[5] I forgot my lines.

[6] I forgot my lines.

[7] We had the whole show memorized.

[8] That's it.

[9] And I immediately drop lines in the first exchange.

[10] You had one job.

[11] You had one job to memorize your podcast lines.

[12] How's it going?

[13] Good.

[14] We're leaving for the UK tomorrow, which is Tuesdays.

[15] But this comes out on Thursday, so it's two days ahead.

[16] We're ahead.

[17] And then we're also early.

[18] because we just recorded a live one.

[19] So this one, we're definitely off our normal system.

[20] So it's going to be.

[21] Wait, we said we were going to put our headphones on.

[22] Oh, yeah, we're going to record the headphones on.

[23] Let's do it.

[24] We never have the headphones on.

[25] Just to shake things up a little.

[26] Oh, my God.

[27] Who's tiny head wore these last time?

[28] This is almost like now we're in our own separate, like, isolation tanks away from the podcast.

[29] Oh, hang on.

[30] I have to hear each other.

[31] Oh, no. Oh.

[32] Oh.

[33] Oh.

[34] Oh.

[35] Oh.

[36] Oh.

[37] Oh.

[38] Oh, hi.

[39] Yeah.

[40] Oh, they got turned on, Steven.

[41] That's exciting.

[42] So we're wearing a head button.

[43] No, this isn't very exciting at home for you listeners.

[44] Kick mine up just a hand.

[45] Which one's yours?

[46] The first one you touched?

[47] This one?

[48] No, that's mine now.

[49] You're where your right hand is.

[50] That one?

[51] Get away from their area.

[52] That one?

[53] Okay.

[54] Okay.

[55] That one?

[56] Yeah.

[57] Oh, it's perfect for you because you can't hear anything.

[58] Right.

[59] Oh, my God.

[60] You look like such a podcaster right now with your headphones on.

[61] Thank you.

[62] Oh, my God, I've always wanted to pet kissed.

[63] Oh, this is, now we're going to be able to hear all the intimate details of our voices.

[64] Oh, shit, and all the times we clonked on the fucking table on accident.

[65] And all the time my big fake teeth get in the way of me talking, which is often these days.

[66] It's like our third podcast host or your teeth.

[67] That's right.

[68] And they are, they will be heard.

[69] They will not be silenced in my mouth.

[70] I've been to hear myself drinking this can of wine.

[71] Yes.

[72] I love it.

[73] How come I didn't get any can, like, my favorite murder canned wine from the Santa Barbara weekend?

[74] I didn't get one, I wanted to save a can.

[75] You just drank it all too fast and crushed it against your head.

[76] That must have been it.

[77] And I just don't remember that.

[78] Because you remember that weekend.

[79] It was showoff time the entire time.

[80] I kept saying that to Georgia the entire weekend because, as I described to somebody yesterday, I said, it was a really fun weekend.

[81] But it was one of those things where every time we were in the room, we were in the center of the room.

[82] And there was a ring of people standing around us.

[83] just staring like talking us yeah you guys are the and i of course i can't resist that that's my nightmare it's well it's my it's my thank god biggest dreams since age five so i had to keep pulling myself back from really getting into it no do it i need it it's perfect for me it's my favorite i need someone else to talk because i otherwise i'll just like remember when we were on stage with i oh and i was like so tell us about your hat I'm just not good at shit like that.

[84] That is about your hat.

[85] That is about your hat.

[86] Yeah, I feel like I have been that it's showing off is really my passion.

[87] And there's nothing, you know, like this is the only thing that actually satisfies it.

[88] Having a podcast makes you a nonstop 24 -7 show off.

[89] That's why you have two.

[90] Yeah.

[91] I can't get enough attention.

[92] Speaking of attention and the UK and Ireland tour.

[93] there are tickets left and the only show we haven't sold out Dublin guys come on guys it's the 25th you said you liked us we added a second show for y 'all come on y 'all come on y 'all I mean I bet it's almost sold out yeah it's almost sold out there's a handful of tickets left that's right we'll just hand them out on the street if we don't sell them all in handfuls that's right to people who there's going to there would be nothing worse than forcing Irish people people to go to a show they don't want to.

[94] That's an audience you don't want.

[95] Just based on my American -Irish experience, they're already pretty judgmental of things they enjoy.

[96] You know what the most fun thing, though, about touring is, is when, like, we go to, like, a pub the night before, we go to a car rental the night before, and the person working there is like, oh, my God, I'm such a big fan, and we get to go, do you want to go to the show and give them tickets?

[97] Yes.

[98] So we can do it now for that night in Dublin.

[99] Okay, great.

[100] Then let's, you know what, cancel that announcement.

[101] Yeah.

[102] There's no more tickets left.

[103] You don't get to go.

[104] We're going to be driving up and down the countryside giving away tickets.

[105] Stopping at pubs.

[106] Whoever we see.

[107] Farmers pulling hay in carts, old -fashioned style.

[108] That happens still?

[109] That's the first time I ever visited Ireland.

[110] We landed, of course, in Dublin, but then we drove west to Dool -in, I think, was the first city we went to.

[111] And we got there, we were walking up the street to our hotel.

[112] and on the passing us was an old guy driving a cart that a cow was pulling with a bunch of hay in the back and he yelled top of the morning tea.

[113] Oh my God.

[114] I think it was sarcasm though.

[115] I think he was like, clearly you're a bunch of Americans.

[116] Here's the experience you want to be having.

[117] It's like when you drive past a truck driver and you're like, honk the horn!

[118] He was like, all right.

[119] It's the Irish version of that.

[120] But it was his idea, which is like another like the built -in sarcasm of that culture where it's just like, Top of the morning to you.

[121] He was probably from Scotland and the whole accent was fake, but, you know, that's what they're like.

[122] Speaking of selling our souls, there's going to be new holiday merch in the merch store.

[123] Great transition.

[124] Thank you.

[125] Beautiful, seamless segue.

[126] Thank you.

[127] And now we're boom into the place where you love to be.

[128] That's right.

[129] Merch, my favorite thing.

[130] We have some really fucking cool merch coming up.

[131] Yes, it's so exciting.

[132] We're so anal about what we allow.

[133] like to be merch is that right yes it's important to us that's what it meant it's really important to us we won't just throw anything up we have notes we have this we want this we have these bright ideas of like let's try this yes so everything that's going in on the 25th of november is like all stuff that we are really into and excited about including some stuff from murderino makers that's so exciting that we get to support and work with them yeah okay that's all i'm done oh okay that was I don't want to hear my The problem with these headphones I can hear myself talk Yeah is it going to impede Are you going to get too self -conscious I might maybe for my story I'll take them off Again over here I couldn't love it more I'm like wow I've never seen I've never experienced how great my fucking voice is Why do I sit in my house crying all the time I don't I don't This is a So we're always talking about corners There are different corners crushing corners or whatever we pretty much just this on this podcast george and i just kind of say the things that we think to say every week there's not a ton of planning there's definitely no prewriting except for the stories we're trying to get said not a lot of follow through not follow through not all the we don't have to explain it to you you know if you've been here for even a little while with that explanation for you look you know you're on your own this is more of a starter information starter kit right now you go look stuff up yeah but somebody's sentence so we've been calling things corners this whole time for three years just out of laziness.

[134] But someone wrote in a great suggestion.

[135] Her name's Brittany Aaron.

[136] It was on Twitter.

[137] And she wrote to us, she wrote to me and the podcast, I feel like your nude segment, quote, I need to tell you something should be announced by drunk Karen.

[138] So I guess last week I said that the new segment was going to be called I need to tell you something because it was so general that I was just telling you random shit.

[139] Okay, do it.

[140] Do it.

[141] So let me get, I need to tell you something.

[142] Oh, no. What does drunk caring need to tell you?

[143] It's not good.

[144] No, this is about a podcast.

[145] It sounds like you got your period on the back of your pants.

[146] I need to tell you something.

[147] It's like shameful.

[148] It's always bad news when it's coming from drunk caring.

[149] I need to tell you something.

[150] Can I have $20?

[151] I need it.

[152] I need to tell you something we have to go to jacking the box.

[153] Okay.

[154] Drunk Karen's always almost asleep.

[155] That's the other thing I realize about her She's so drunk That she's right on the verge of just passing out It's almost night night So that anyway Look for that future segment That's never going to happen I need to tell you something That was by drunk Karen And then let's both collectively Forget it Set it and forget it That's right This idea is the dump cakes of ideas It's the microwaveing for one cookbook Of the idea Of ideas It's the spoonula What's that?

[156] It's a spatula spoon.

[157] So you can flip it and scoop also?

[158] You can also, you know, like, stir.

[159] You know, spatulas are like the things.

[160] You don't fucking mansplain and spatulas to me, Georgia.

[161] I won't, thank you.

[162] How does a spoon happen, though, since spatulas, by definition, are kind of flat.

[163] It's lightly curved into a spoon.

[164] Okay.

[165] Got it?

[166] So you're not going to eat cereal with this, but you can get stuff out if you need to.

[167] In a pinch, you could eat cereal with it.

[168] It would kind of be more depressing than just eating cereal with like a wooden spoon.

[169] Which I think is, so I have a spoon that's bigger than all the other spoons and I intentionally use that to eat cereal.

[170] Sure.

[171] You have to cram as much in your fucking mouth as possible.

[172] Yes, it's, I have the, and it's to my detriment, but I definitely have the eating attitude.

[173] If I'm going to do it, I might as well fucking go for it.

[174] That's my plan for the two weeks we are in the UK and Ireland.

[175] It's happening.

[176] We had a little discussion before we started recording about how exciting it is that we get to have tea in the UK and Ireland.

[177] We're so excited about it and all the little things that in in my I will just make it personal in my childhood and growing up.

[178] Candy was not it was not it was it was it was I always had to sneak it and I wanted it all the time.

[179] Sure.

[180] I thought about it all the time candy and cookies and sweets.

[181] Yeah.

[182] Culturally in especially in London I we'll say, or England, sorry, London, England, in the whole country, they take an intentional break at three o 'clock every day and eat candy together.

[183] And I love that they call it cakes.

[184] There's like cakes and like little things and crumpets and...

[185] They're really into twicks.

[186] Yeah.

[187] Really into twits.

[188] All right.

[189] It's going to, it's happening so hard when we're there.

[190] We just get, we're going to get supported for our bad habits.

[191] Do you know what else we're doing that I'm really excited about?

[192] What?

[193] Because we're going to a football match.

[194] Oh, yes.

[195] And we have to sit in like a...

[196] an area for people who, like, don't usually go because it's so rowdy and, like, crazy.

[197] I love it.

[198] It's going to be the best.

[199] I'm going to be the one sober person in that entire stadium.

[200] You are.

[201] I'm going to be the only beer -free human being there.

[202] And Vince and I are going to like, we got to tell you something.

[203] You guys, that would be, that would actually be a good penance for me to pay, is I have to handle drunk Vince and drunk Georgia and get us out of a football stadium without getting punched in the face.

[204] Have you seen drunk Georgia?

[205] She's fun.

[206] She is fun, right?

[207] And she's exactly like regular Georgia.

[208] It just gets a little bit like giggilyer as it goes.

[209] And louder.

[210] Louder, gigglier and a little more like sloppy.

[211] A little meaner.

[212] Yeah, I like it.

[213] Or like talking shit on people, not like to you.

[214] But almost, yes, exactly.

[215] It's to someone else like almost in the bonding way.

[216] Yeah.

[217] But in the way where it becomes almost out of like you're, you clearly don't mean it because you're just saying whatever comes into your head.

[218] Yeah.

[219] It's really enjoyable.

[220] Thank you.

[221] Yeah.

[222] I'm honored.

[223] And a lot of arm grabbing, which I really enjoy.

[224] Oh, yeah, that's me. Yeah.

[225] There's a lot of touching when I'm drunk.

[226] It's fun.

[227] Okay, good.

[228] Yeah.

[229] Remember in Hawaii when we were in the bed with Lizzie?

[230] And you were like, it was fucking hilarious.

[231] I don't remember.

[232] We Vince ordered us room service.

[233] We had the weirdest array of room service food.

[234] And we were watching a movie.

[235] And whatever was happening, we were laughing so hard.

[236] And you just kept hitting me on the arm.

[237] And then eventually you got aware of it.

[238] like, I'm so sorry, and I'm like, no, I like it.

[239] Like hitting you on the art, like nudging you.

[240] Yeah, it was like, I would make a joke and then you would slap my arm.

[241] And then you got self -conscious about it.

[242] I'm like, no, no, this is what I'm looking for.

[243] This is what I like.

[244] Speaking of what you like, I'm going to tell you something I like.

[245] You feel beholden to do transitions like that?

[246] We got to pretend to be professional.

[247] No, we don't.

[248] That's just it.

[249] We never have.

[250] We simply don't.

[251] I just have a recommendation that Karen, I actually.

[252] I can't believe I'm recommending this to you because this is so you that this is a travesty.

[253] There's a show called Back to Life.

[254] Have you heard of it?

[255] No. It's from the BBC.

[256] It's a British drama and comedy series about this woman in her later 30s who returns home after 18 years in prison for a thing that you like slowly, there's like six episodes.

[257] Wait a second.

[258] I've seen the trailer for this.

[259] Yeah, like a red -headed.

[260] Yes.

[261] It looks amazing.

[262] It's on Showtime.

[263] We watched, we binge watched it in one night.

[264] You have to watch it I will I mean listen I'll just tell you She's back from prison for murder So it's right up our alley But then like slowly it starts to tell you What really happened And you find out all these crazy things And the acting is great And it's just like In the seaside town of Kent And it's just like Yes what news from Kent Yeah It's great You'll love it Back to life You should download it for the plane actually Oh okay Because it's so British It's such a British comedy But it's depressing Great Great Great Okay That sounds like our combo like right on the nose.

[265] And here will be my sister recommendation to that one.

[266] Okay.

[267] Is on stars the series Dublin Dublin murders.

[268] I wrote that down.

[269] Yeah.

[270] And it's great.

[271] Give the Irish some time on screen.

[272] I'll be there for it.

[273] Supporting them.

[274] Do whatever they want to do.

[275] Although I have to say the main investigator, her Irish accent is so strong and foreign sounding to me that it's bewildering.

[276] and she kind of everything is a little bit of slide from here and everything goes a little bit like this and dot and it's all a little out over the side of her mouth and I can't fucking understand what she's saying and I love it and it's so exciting but the guy in it is one hot piece he's a snack crazy that's what the kid say he's a snack is he a snack I don't know is he is he a bop remember that like over the summer people would call good songs it's a real bop and I was like what's happening we don't have to make up new words every three months It's not required.

[277] It's not.

[278] But this guy is definitely a bop snack for sure.

[279] There's something about...

[280] He's a real snacky bop.

[281] He's a...

[282] He does...

[283] He does...

[284] He has like...

[285] It's the beauty of men who have plain faces.

[286] No, I'm not following you.

[287] You got to get behind me right now.

[288] Okay.

[289] I'm standing behind you.

[290] There's something about...

[291] Maybe it's just all his shirts are super tight, and he's the lanky type.

[292] Okay.

[293] It's just...

[294] I do love a...

[295] I love a guy -girl combo in...

[296] It reminds me of the killing.

[297] Remember that old one?

[298] Totally.

[299] It's that feel where it's like she's all business and he's kind of like got his eye on her.

[300] And he's like a little ex -methy, like maybe undercover.

[301] No?

[302] Going the wrong way?

[303] But you're right for the killing.

[304] This guy, it's different where he's actually much more buttoned down, which is even more exciting.

[305] Yeah, button him up.

[306] Button it.

[307] You love...

[308] I love a guy with like a tailored shirt that...

[309] can't help himself because he likes the girl that he's working with.

[310] I mean, I'm all about that story.

[311] That's right.

[312] Come on.

[313] Love and shoes.

[314] It's because it's about respect.

[315] That's what it's about.

[316] It's about smart women getting some fucking love for, not for the shape of their ass, but for the diligence of them following up on DNA death.

[317] The brains.

[318] Georgia, what if I told you we could be transported to the 1920s to solve a murder?

[319] I'd say my entire life and wardrobe have led me to this point.

[320] If you want to escape to a bygone age of mystery, danger, and romance, then check out June's Journey, the Hidden Object mystery game that tests your detective skills.

[321] June's Journey is a mobile mystery game that follows June Parker and New York Socialite living in London.

[322] As June Parker, you'll investigate beautifully detailed scenes of the 1920s while uncovering the mystery of her sister's murder.

[323] There are twists, turns, and catchy tunes, all leading you deeper into the thrilling storyline.

[324] And if you play well enough, you could make it to the detective club where you can chat with other players and either team up with them or compete against them.

[325] June needs your help, but watch out you never know which character might be a villain.

[326] Find out as you escape this world and dive into June's world of mystery, murder, and romance.

[327] Can you crack the case?

[328] Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[329] Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for Free.

[330] today on iOS and Android.

[331] That's June's Journey, download the game for free on iOS and Android.

[332] Goodbye.

[333] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[334] Absolutely.

[335] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[336] Exactly.

[337] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[338] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[339] That's right.

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[341] Give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[342] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in person.

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[344] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[345] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can too.

[346] Connect with customers inline and online.

[347] Do retail right with Shopify.

[348] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[349] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[350] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[351] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[352] Goodbye.

[353] Am I first this week?

[354] Yes, you are.

[355] All right.

[356] So we're done with that section.

[357] Are we?

[358] No, yeah, we are.

[359] Oh, I thought it was a good sec. I'm segmented.

[360] No, no, you were right on.

[361] Okay.

[362] All right.

[363] Well, here we go.

[364] Let's do it.

[365] I'm going to start again with a paragraph before I say it.

[366] Okay.

[367] This is my new thing.

[368] I love it.

[369] Okay, hold on.

[370] I have to burp.

[371] Whoa.

[372] That reached out and tickled my earlobe.

[373] Steven, will you just mute that?

[374] But leave it in.

[375] But mute my burp.

[376] It was fucking baritone.

[377] It went all the way down to the basement.

[378] I'm pretty good at it.

[379] My mom says I rattle the walls.

[380] You're like an opera singer of bass.

[381] belching.

[382] That's like the most proud of my mom has ever been of me as my belching.

[383] For real?

[384] She brings it up all the time.

[385] She's like so like, I think she digs it.

[386] Well, Georgia can belch quite loudly.

[387] Oh, you should hear her.

[388] She's Barney from the Simpsons.

[389] She's, and I just proved it.

[390] Okay.

[391] Love it.

[392] She's still mad at me about the book.

[393] Oh, okay.

[394] That's okay.

[395] Well, I'm still mad at her about a couple things.

[396] So, fair's fair.

[397] Where there's always tension somewhere.

[398] Okay.

[399] So I'm going to start with this.

[400] Okay.

[401] Here we go.

[402] Okay.

[403] On the morning of August 23rd, 1973.

[404] Okay.

[405] And a newly escaped convict in Sweden's capital city of Stockholm entered a busy bank in the upscale normal store square.

[406] I know what you're about to do.

[407] Yeah, it is.

[408] Yes, girl.

[409] I know what this is.

[410] Don't say it.

[411] Jan Eric Olson walked into the bank wearing toy store glasses and a thick brown wig to conceal his identity and from underneath his coat, pulls a loaded submachine gun, and fires at the ceiling.

[412] Then in English with an American accent, even though I'm Swedish, she yells, the party has just begun.

[413] And so begins the origin story of Stockholm Syndrome.

[414] Yeah.

[415] Love it.

[416] I can't believe we haven't done this before.

[417] And I would love to thank my friend Carrie Selling better for me badgering her at a bar saying, Just give me an idea.

[418] I don't know what to do next week.

[419] And she was like, what about this?

[420] What about that?

[421] And then what about Stockholm syndrome?

[422] How did we not do this when we were in Stockholm?

[423] I don't know because it's not a murder.

[424] I think that it's only recently that we're doing stuff that's not murder.

[425] Yes, true.

[426] Yeah.

[427] We wanted to be more on her.

[428] Good job, Carrie.

[429] Nice one.

[430] So I got a bunch of it.

[431] And also I had just maybe like a few months ago listened to an episode of criminal about where they interview the one of the robbers.

[432] Yes.

[433] And it's so, of course, well done.

[434] And then they got a bunch of info from a podcast called Memory Motel where they interview one of the hostages.

[435] Yeah.

[436] So I listened to both of those and got most of the info from there.

[437] And then from the Smithsonian .com and history .com got the rest of the info.

[438] Can I just do a quick sidebar?

[439] Please.

[440] Phoebe Judge on Halloween tweeted, what do you do when a trick -or -treater comes to your door smoking a cigarette?

[441] And I retweeted it, but it made me laugh.

[442] So hard.

[443] I don't understand.

[444] She doesn't understand how funny she is.

[445] Or how I think how awesome she is.

[446] She's the coolest.

[447] Also, she's really young.

[448] I thought she was like older than me because of how much she handles shit on that podcast.

[449] She's so professional.

[450] And she's like, I think she's in her 30s.

[451] Fuck.

[452] I know.

[453] God bless her.

[454] Anyway, just to, because this is, if it's a, there's a criminal.

[455] source element that I just want to give props to now she's the best I'm Phoebe Judge I'm Phoebe Judge and this is criminal but this isn't this is my favorite that's right okay so we're not trying to steal her shit a little bit not plagiarizing the name of her podcast okay what Jan Eric didn't know when he fucking the parties just began was that a silent alarm had been triggered.

[456] And so when a policeman responded, Jan Eric shoots at him and hits him in the hand.

[457] So I don't know if this was just supposed to be a robbery that turned into a hostage situation because this was triggered or if that's what his plan was to begin with.

[458] So he shoots at the policeman and hits him in the hand.

[459] So then he freaks out and takes three female bank employees hostage while letting everyone else leave.

[460] So let's talk about him.

[461] He's a 32 year old career criminal and he had been a safe cracker and was serving, which is like such a necessary job, right?

[462] Yes.

[463] There's only handfuls in them out there and they have to be good at it.

[464] That's right.

[465] And he was serving a three -year sentence in prison for grand larceny.

[466] He had achieved like a little bit of fame when an elderly couple had caught him robbing their house, at which point the elderly man had collapsed and the man's wife was like, oh my God, grab his heart medicine.

[467] It's in the kitchen.

[468] And he did it.

[469] And many continued ransacking their house.

[470] Oh.

[471] So he was like known as like the bumbling.

[472] I don't know what he was known as, but like that got him some notoriety.

[473] He was the criminal with the heart of gold maybe?

[474] Yeah, who still then got caught.

[475] Yeah.

[476] You know?

[477] Maybe he wasn't that good at it.

[478] He was just kind of making his way.

[479] Right.

[480] It sounds like that.

[481] Okay.

[482] So he was in prison, but he was on furlough that day.

[483] I don't know, you know, at the shops and such.

[484] When he took the fuck off and went out to rob the bank.

[485] Okay.

[486] So in Sweden, you go to jail.

[487] jail, but you can also leave jail and do things you'd like to do with your life.

[488] I think that means like you're on your way to being let go, like let out soon.

[489] Got it.

[490] So they're like reintroducing you into society and shit.

[491] It's kind of a parole feel.

[492] Yeah.

[493] But he was like, I'm going to ruin this and fucking rob a bank.

[494] I have a passion for ruining thing.

[495] Yeah, I'm really good at it.

[496] So once the hostages are secured, Jan Eric announces his demands for the release of the hostages.

[497] He wants three million Swedish kroner.

[498] an honor.

[499] Me too.

[500] Which is about $700 ,000.

[501] A couple of guns and bulletproof vests and a getaway car.

[502] But do you know this story?

[503] Yes, but I mean, it's all, it's in the files with 18 ,000 other stories.

[504] You're not the only one listening.

[505] Stephen's listening to.

[506] Okay.

[507] And the other thing he insisted that he wanted was his old jailhouse buddy, Clark Olfson, to get out of the jail and help him in the situation.

[508] So he's like, calling in support?

[509] Yeah, from a guy in another buddy of his in jail.

[510] So Clark Oliveson, he's 26 years old.

[511] He's definitely a bobsnack.

[512] Okay, for sure.

[513] Great.

[514] He's serving time for armed robbery and acting as an accessory in a 1969 robbery that had gone wrong and a police officer had been killed.

[515] Okay.

[516] Yeah.

[517] So he's kind of a celebrity bank robber.

[518] And while he and Jan Eric, who Clark describes as a, quote, useful idiot.

[519] Wow.

[520] Yeah.

[521] When they were in prison, Jan would beg Clark to tell him all the wild stories of bank robbery.

[522] It was almost like, you know, storytelling time.

[523] Sure.

[524] And in his eyes, Clark was the best that there is at robbing banks.

[525] So knowing he was in a bad situation and needed help, he demanded that Clark joined him.

[526] Clark had been in solitary confinement.

[527] So, of course, he was like, fuck yeah.

[528] Get me over to that.

[529] that bank.

[530] Let's fucking do this.

[531] Where there are lights and sounds and human beings.

[532] Exactly.

[533] Jesus.

[534] So Clark has brought into the bank and he goes inside to join Eon.

[535] At this point, the unfolding bank robbery and hostage situation is fucking huge news all over, like, peaceful Sweden, right?

[536] Sure.

[537] It's the first televised crime in Sweden and it's being broadcast all over the country.

[538] The public is like obsessed with this crime and they fled the police stations with suggestions for ending the standoff.

[539] Some of those were.

[540] We're soaping the floor of the bank so the criminals would slip and be easy to capture.

[541] That happened to me in the bathroom the other day.

[542] Getting out of the shower and walking over to, yeah.

[543] You slipped?

[544] I had a weird slip where as I was falling down, I was like, this is very dangerous in this bathroom.

[545] It is.

[546] And I just kind of hit my knee.

[547] It wasn't that big of a deal.

[548] But I now have bathroom slippers so that when I get out of the shower, I immediately have rubber -sold shoes on.

[549] You don't need to get you life alert?

[550] Not yet.

[551] But that's, I think next year we'll do it.

[552] Oh, you way.

[553] That's so scary.

[554] Yeah.

[555] Be careful.

[556] Put towels down.

[557] Don't be afraid of bath mats.

[558] I'm a strict slipper person.

[559] My feet don't hit the ground.

[560] Yeah.

[561] And I bet it saved me from some slip and polish.

[562] I bet it has.

[563] So another suggestion was that they send a swarm of angry bees into the bank to sting everyone into submission.

[564] And then, of course, they'd run out being like, ah, you know, and hijinks.

[565] No, it's the perfect solution, bugs money.

[566] Thank you so much.

[567] for calling in or drunk Karen yeah yeah there's so many bees and jack in the box that goes meanwhile inside the bank the terrified hostages are are taken inside a cramped bank vault which is like don't go in there yeah the hostages are tied up but when Clark finally shows up from prison he takes command of the situation he's like we're all going to be okay everyone calm down he says it'll all be fine and they're like oh he's our savior yeah the three female hostages are Kristen and Mark she's 23 years old Brigita Lundblod I don't know her age and Elizabeth Olgren who's 21 and they're all bank employees so they're all young women Kristen later describes Clark as quote a mix between Che Guevara and Jesus hey hey what's up yeah how you doing what is going on are you at snack do you want a glass of wine I'm feeling it with you.

[568] And Kristen and Clark become close because he's 26.

[569] And she's 23.

[570] Also, they're in a situation that is the most heightened.

[571] Like, that's how people fall in love.

[572] Totally.

[573] Whether it's at your personal bank robbery or someone else's bank robbery.

[574] The problem is one of them has a gun to you.

[575] True.

[576] But isn't Clark the one that came in that got been called in?

[577] But he's now part of this.

[578] Did he get called in from jail?

[579] and then they gave him a gun?

[580] No, he got, I don't know.

[581] No, no. I can't be.

[582] I bet, I bet, uh, Yon had other guns and gave it to him.

[583] Yon's like, can you please take this on my hands?

[584] I don't want to hold this gun anymore.

[585] And so I think that, I think Clark just took over the role that we're robbing this bank.

[586] We have hostages.

[587] And I bet you what he brought into that situation is that feeling like you said, everything's going to be okay or whatever, where it's not some lunatic with wide eyes and shaky hands.

[588] It's someone that's like, look, we just.

[589] just want the money.

[590] We're trying to do this.

[591] No one's going to get killed.

[592] Or he's like, Jan is in charge.

[593] I'm doing what he does, but making sure that no one gets hurt.

[594] Yes.

[595] And that, I'm sure, was great, a great feeling for those people who are only freaked out.

[596] And he's like, Che Guevara and Jesus.

[597] So, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm just picturing a V, whatever the shirt he had on, there was a V -neck element to it.

[598] It was a 70s, so it was unbuttoned to the navel.

[599] And there was just all kind of hair.

[600] Everyone was a bear in the 70s.

[601] So Clark orders Jan to loosen the hostage's ropes to make them more comfortable.

[602] And this is when the tides turn.

[603] And instead of being afraid of their captors, the hostages appreciate being treated with respect, which they didn't feel that the cops were giving them at that moment.

[604] They thought that the cops would fucking blow down the doors and kill everyone.

[605] And they see Clark as their saving grace.

[606] Yeah.

[607] And Clark is the one who's interviewed in the criminal episode and he's just fucking, he's charming.

[608] He's great.

[609] He's great.

[610] He's kind of a dick, though.

[611] He's a cocky, charming dick.

[612] Well, he's the kind of a guy that would rob banks.

[613] He'd be like, let's do it.

[614] I can handle it.

[615] Totally.

[616] So, Clark also does a once -round -the -bank and finds an employee hiding in the closet, which is like, uh, wah -a -law.

[617] Yeah.

[618] His name's Sven Safstrom.

[619] He's collected and brought with everyone else making him the fourth hostage.

[620] Okay.

[621] So the hostages are allowed to call their families, to let them know they're okay.

[622] And by the second day, the hostages were on a first name basis with their captors.

[623] And they started to feel the police more than their abductors.

[624] When the police commissioner was allowed inside to inspect the hostages health, he noticed that the captives appeared to be hostile with him but they were relaxed and jovial with their captors.

[625] The police chief told the press that he doubted the gunmen would harm the hostages because they had developed a quote, rather relaxed relationship, which of course then the public was like, this is amazing, what the fuck is going on?

[626] What are they doing in there?

[627] Yeah, exactly.

[628] They even had a few phone calls with the prime minister Olaf Plom and they let Kristen talk to him.

[629] You mean that snowman from Frozen?

[630] Plame?

[631] Olaf Plame.

[632] How are you doing?

[633] I guess not good.

[634] I really enjoyed that show.

[635] I've never seen it.

[636] I'm sorry.

[637] No, no. It's my fault.

[638] The snowman's name is Olaf, right, Stephen?

[639] Okay.

[640] That's it.

[641] So then I like the imagine that a snowman has a last name and then eventually becomes the prime minister of Sweden.

[642] everything about that so sorry again show off time no I was embarrassed because I haven't seen it so I was like no I get that joke but I didn't get that joke at all it's pretty high level I have nephews not nieces they don't want to watch frozen yeah that's right you have a you have a whole other I should have made a car's joke Minecraft Minecraft so they let Kristen one of the the 23 year old hostage talk to him and she begs the prime minister to let her leave with the robbers in the car She says, I fully trust Clark and the robber.

[643] I am not desperate.

[644] They haven't done anything to us.

[645] On the contrary, they have been very nice.

[646] But what I'm scared of is the police will attack and cause us to die.

[647] Yeah.

[648] So even when threatened with physical harm, the hostages still were compassionate towards their abductors.

[649] So Olson suggested shooting Sven in the leg to shake up the police because it had been, it's like this one on six fucking days.

[650] Oh, shit.

[651] Yeah.

[652] And so, like, at one point, they're like, let's shoot him in the leg to show me me in business.

[653] And Sven said that he thought it was kind of them that they would shoot him just in the leg and not in his body.

[654] It is nice.

[655] Yeah.

[656] So Elizabeth Olgren complained of claustrophobia.

[657] This part is a little weird for me. Okay.

[658] They tied a rope around her neck because they were in the bank vault and let her walk outside the bank vault and just hang out, which is like a little degrading.

[659] But she was really grateful of it.

[660] that's like the one hint of these two are the like the hints of stockholm syndrome making sense to me yes that there's that they definitely had a sway over these people and that they were doing things that maybe weren't the coolest right but that the people were just grateful that they were having a not the worst I'm sure that that the shape of all this was this is a going to be a traumatic experience yeah within it it's not being a traumatic experience so it's like oh great or the little kindnesses in between that like making that assure you that everything's going to be okay which is all you're fucking grasping for is that something's going to be okay yes and so when people come along and give you those assurances yeah then you're kind of like well now I love you right because other than this I'm just I'm blind I'm in the dark entirely and I think I might die so whatever you say to me is going to start becoming very meaningful and make you look very powerful right totally um so it is in Hollywood I relate entirely.

[661] It's like being fucking held hostage.

[662] Ultimately to stand off last six days.

[663] That's fucking crazy.

[664] They're in a vault.

[665] They closed the door to the vault.

[666] They have no food and water and they have to poop and stuff in the corner.

[667] For real?

[668] I think so.

[669] I'm making that up.

[670] But they were locked in the vault, so they must have had to go to the bathroom in the corner.

[671] Right?

[672] This is not criminal.

[673] Here's your proof.

[674] how is that they I don't think so no I think so because I think Clark says that he appreciated them going through this disgusting filthy event with him and so I think they were shitting in a corner if they were shitting at all I'd just be like you know what here's the thing no I have I really have a claustrophobia around shit I could be out in an open field but I used to let me walk away from this area days.

[675] That's crazy.

[676] Maybe there's vault bathrooms.

[677] Maybe.

[678] Just one emergency vault bathroom.

[679] What if you like, okay, you know how they have safe deposit boxes?

[680] Yes.

[681] You just go in there.

[682] What if a lot of people got a nice surprise the next couple of years for your safety deposit boxes?

[683] And you're saying, how much is this shit worth?

[684] Fifteen million dollars?

[685] Guys, we can make all of these jokes because it's the Stockholm Syndrome story.

[686] Which inherently is about the violence, not affecting people in the normal.

[687] Right.

[688] Oh, yeah.

[689] It's basically our story.

[690] It's our origin story.

[691] We can put anything into it that we want.

[692] But, blah, blah, blah.

[693] Six days, convicts do no physical harm to the hostages.

[694] And on the night of it, except for the pooping thing.

[695] That's very harmful.

[696] Very harmful.

[697] August 28, after more than 130 hours, police, they start drilling holes in the vault, the cops were.

[698] And then they finally put in tear gas, which is like such a dick.

[699] move to the hostages, right?

[700] Right.

[701] But I mean, after, I think there's so much pressure if the whole country is watching, if not more people.

[702] And then it's like, well, what are these cops going to do?

[703] And they're like, it's going to suck for them, but this isn't like, we're not killing them.

[704] When it came down to the end, they were just like, okay, either we drill holes and put tear gas in or we go with the bees idea.

[705] Which I still don't think is a terrible idea.

[706] I'm still on board with drunk Karen's idea.

[707] But bees, there's a drunk Karen in Sweden.

[708] that called that in.

[709] She's like, she's just, I can't do a Swedish accent.

[710] But, um, the idea of, like, they had to, they had to move it forward.

[711] Yes.

[712] Basically.

[713] Yeah.

[714] It was stalling.

[715] And they knew, I think police at that time knew, they couldn't do anything truly violent because they couldn't.

[716] They were being watched.

[717] They were being watched and the whole thing became about police violence.

[718] And you know, Clark called the newspapers and everything and was letting them know that everything is fine in here and no one's being hurt just so that they couldn't spin the story and make him seem all violent and crazy to shit.

[719] Amazing.

[720] Yeah.

[721] Amazing.

[722] Yeah.

[723] So Yon and Clark quickly surrender and the police want the hostages to come out first.

[724] But the hostages are like, we fucking refuse.

[725] We know you're going to shoot them if they're last.

[726] So they're coming out with us.

[727] Wow.

[728] Which is like they're protecting their lives at that point.

[729] Yeah.

[730] And the doorway with the vault, the three women kiss Olson and Oliveson goodbye and Sven shakes hands with them.

[731] They're captors for six fucking days.

[732] And the police sees the gunmen.

[733] And while that happens, two of the hostages cry out, don't hurt them.

[734] They didn't harm us.

[735] While Kristen is wheeled away in a stretcher and there's photos of her sitting up in her stretcher, like watching to make sure they're okay.

[736] She says, Clark, I will see you soon.

[737] Oh, she liked Clark.

[738] I think they, and I think they ended up hooking up later.

[739] What?

[740] Yeah.

[741] Are you being serious?

[742] I swear to God, in the criminal, he mentions, said, yeah, we've got closer than friends.

[743] I swear.

[744] he's a real he's a dog he's a cat he's a real so -and -so he's a real that fella it later came out that during the standoff he had soothed Kristen when she had a bad dream and he gave her a bullet from his gun as a keepsake no I mean it's just that it's kind of hard because somebody it's like they're looking out for you and I'm like Jesus oh I'm scared like I'm also titillated.

[745] What if Jesus liked you personally?

[746] That's big.

[747] Jesus was like a bad guy.

[748] No, he wasn't.

[749] No, that is not from our Bible.

[750] I'm thinking of Rambo.

[751] I'm sorry.

[752] I'm sorry.

[753] But I think it is the there is a manipulation obviously because it's not normal feelings and it's not a normal situation.

[754] But I just keep thinking like after six days you've hung out with people where they're like, look I don't want to be a bank robber.

[755] I actually used to have a dream.

[756] Yeah, of becoming a great whatever things Swedish people like And it's like And my dreams were deferred Well it's like they have enough time To get the story straight So it's like you can empathize With why they do what they do And here's the thing because the vault door was locked They were also in the dark Except for the holes that were drilled into the Into it Wow So like that's they just went through some shit Yeah they went through some shit That really that kind of turns That spins it as well And the smell Okay.

[757] It was like a stinky podcast where they all became best friends.

[758] We know what that's like.

[759] Let's start it.

[760] Both the public and police were fucking totally perplexed by the hostages, seemingly irrational attachment to their captors.

[761] The police even began to investigate whether Kristen was part of the robbery plot to begin with.

[762] They were like, this is so impossible.

[763] She must be fucking part of this.

[764] The captives were confused too.

[765] The following day, one of the hostages asked a psychiatrist, is there something wrong with me?

[766] Why don't I hate them?

[767] Like, they were confused, too.

[768] Right.

[769] Psychiatrists were like, let's psychoanalyze this motherfucker and compared the behavior to the wartime shell shock exhibited by soldiers, you know, and explained that the hostages had become emotionally indebted to their abductors and not the police for being spared death.

[770] Yeah.

[771] Makes sense.

[772] Sweetest psychiatrist Niels Bergeraert later coined the term Stockholm Syndrome to describe the so -called captor bonding, which became part of the popular lexicon in 1974 when it was used as a defense for the kidnapped newspaper heiress, Patty Hurst, who assisted the radical Symbionese liberation army captors in a series of bank robberies.

[773] Her fucking, it didn't work, though, her defense.

[774] And I'm still horrified by this, that she was sentenced to 35 years in prison and later, it was later reduced to seven years.

[775] Like, that's so crazy, isn't it?

[776] Yeah.

[777] I still think it's a miscarriage of justice.

[778] That whole story is so beyond.

[779] It's like only in the 70s could that have happened because it was so.

[780] And, you know, it was in San Francisco.

[781] Right.

[782] So it's, yeah, it's just above and beyond everything.

[783] And all those like, she is so gorgeous.

[784] The pictures of her.

[785] The whole thing is like a weird movie plot.

[786] It is.

[787] But in real life.

[788] It's bonkers.

[789] The hostages were, so the hostages wouldn't testify against the bank robbers.

[790] Yeah.

[791] And Kirsten even lied on the stand saying that Clark had never had.

[792] held a gun during the six -day standoff.

[793] Oh, wow.

[794] She fucking lied.

[795] She was going down for her man. Yep.

[796] She said she didn't want him to be punished.

[797] In fact, she said she would have given him a medal if it were up to her.

[798] I mean, charm goes a long way.

[799] I don't think they have medals for that, though.

[800] No, I don't.

[801] For the lack of extreme violence.

[802] Number one, for not murdering.

[803] Yeah.

[804] But in that scenario, you work at a bank.

[805] You kind of fear this all the time.

[806] And you've already run through what could.

[807] happen and how bad it could be.

[808] So the thing is happening that you fear, but it's with people that are like, we don't want to hurt you.

[809] We just want this money.

[810] But there's still that little bit of like chance that they could and that things could go wrong and you could still be killed.

[811] And like, it's so terrifying.

[812] Yeah.

[813] And then you're shitting in a corner.

[814] That part.

[815] Yeah.

[816] Yon was sentenced to 10 years in prison for the robbery and Clark didn't go to prison at all for his crime because he was like, you guys made me go do this.

[817] He can't be.

[818] No. He was pulled into it.

[819] But he's been back in prison many times since then.

[820] No shit.

[821] Yeah.

[822] And so even after they returned to prison, the hostages made jailhouse visits to their former captors.

[823] Wow.

[824] I know.

[825] And Jan was released in 1980.

[826] And once freed, he married one of the many women who sent him admiring letters while incarcerated.

[827] Oh, nice.

[828] And they, like, had a kid together.

[829] They went fucking straight.

[830] They own, like, a mechanics place or something.

[831] Wow.

[832] And had like a normal life.

[833] So he has a normal life because of being involved in that?

[834] Maybe.

[835] Well, because she sent the letter.

[836] Yeah.

[837] That was the inciting incident.

[838] You got to hope.

[839] That's what the movie plot's got to be.

[840] Yeah.

[841] And since the robbery, Yon has not been convicted of any other crimes.

[842] Great.

[843] And has openly apologized for the hostage situation.

[844] Awesome.

[845] Yeah.

[846] And that's the story of the fucking Stockholm syndrome.

[847] God, I feel like that might be the best case scenario, any true crime story you could talk to it.

[848] Yeah.

[849] Yes, I hope yours isn't horrible.

[850] It is the worst.

[851] Are you ready?

[852] Hold on, let's be.

[853] Are we back?

[854] I'm ready to concentrate on you.

[855] These are fun.

[856] I know, I love them.

[857] I think they're really good.

[858] It was a good idea.

[859] George and I just took a break in between, just a quick bathroom break.

[860] Yeah.

[861] And I have to say, first of all, we have to make a rule.

[862] When we go to the bathroom during taping, I'm not allowed to use the tweet.

[863] in the bathroom.

[864] It's for before and after only.

[865] No plucking allowed.

[866] I just did a serious amount of plucking in the bathroom.

[867] You were gone for a while.

[868] I couldn't stop.

[869] But here's the thing.

[870] As I did it, it makes me incredibly proud and grateful because we run our own company now where we ask Danielle, who runs our network, can you please get a spare tweezers for this bathroom?

[871] Because every time I go in there, there's hairs where I'm like, why is no one telling me about Lightning is going to be like this fine, but we are going to need a solution for it.

[872] Yeah, we need to be able to not feel like victims of our own faces.

[873] Yeah, and we work amongst and around people, and we've gotten this crew with us that don't mind hearing about what a great plucking session we just had.

[874] Or maybe they just don't want to get fired and hired for less.

[875] I think Stephen would be expressing his true feelings if he didn't feel so threatened.

[876] No, I was going to say, I have a little deodorant in the bathroom.

[877] Like, I was trimming my mustache hairs a little bit today.

[878] He gets it.

[879] He lives here now.

[880] Oh, Stephen, you're not allowed to do that.

[881] I have a cot in the back room.

[882] Okay.

[883] That was just like a personal hygiene break that no one wanted.

[884] Corner.

[885] Okay.

[886] We're prepping to go on this big trip.

[887] And so, and we just recorded an episode.

[888] So this episode definitely snuck up on me. So when I was looking for a story, I first tried to think, what haven't I done that I really want to do?

[889] Didn't think of Stockholm syndrome.

[890] I'm so mad at myself.

[891] So what I did was I googled the phrase disappeared from the forest to see what would come up.

[892] That's brilliant.

[893] And which is a good way to do it because the first thing that came up was this amazing article from 2008 from the L .A. Weekly that was written by a writer named Christine Pellisack, was the guess, is how you pronounce her name.

[894] And that from, that was the story that basically gave me this story.

[895] That article from the LA Weekly from 11 years ago.

[896] And then the supporting articles were found on Murderpedia.

[897] And basically we, we've talked a ton about how L .A. in the 70s, there were all these freeway murderers.

[898] There were so many serial killers in the Southland in the 70s that there were actually subsets and types of serial killers that you could be in freeway killers were, one of them.

[899] Right.

[900] And this, this is a, this, so this hits on a bunch of my things, which is the disappeared from the forest thing, the freeway killer thing.

[901] And then, you know the thing I always talk about where, because of the way the news cycle is, because the way the country is right now and the politics and everything, that I always talk about, what are the things we're not hearing about?

[902] Because everything's getting eaten up all day by basically the crumbling of democracy and reality.

[903] Yeah.

[904] And this is what happened in the 70s.

[905] And that's why no one's ever heard of Mack Ray Edwards, the child serial killer.

[906] The serial killer of children in Los Angeles before the 70s.

[907] Holy shit.

[908] Yes.

[909] Okay.

[910] So I've never seen this guy's picture.

[911] I've never heard his name.

[912] I couldn't believe it.

[913] So it starts here.

[914] On March 23rd, 1957, 8 -year -old Tommy Bowman is on a short hike with his father, his brother, his sister, his uncle, and his two young cousins.

[915] and they're going along the Arroyo Seco Trail in Pasadena.

[916] They're from Mondo Beach, the Bowman family, and they're spending the day basically Altadena together.

[917] Essentially, I think the family from the beach wanted to go up into the mountains and hike around for the day.

[918] Isn't that crazy?

[919] Like, that would have been a trek for the day back then.

[920] And now it's like a fucking errand you run.

[921] Yes.

[922] And back then it was like, we're all going to get into the car without our cell phones and we're going to drive up into the mountains and walk around.

[923] Well, they left their cell phones at home?

[924] Yeah.

[925] They left their cell phones.

[926] cell phones in the future so and this is the that classic story toward the ends of the hike Tommy races he basically says to his cousins I'll race you to the car oh no and they're only a quarter of a mile away from the parking lot off the trail where they started yeah um so they all watch Tommy race ahead and turn a corner and they never see him again what the fuck yes so when the rest of the bowmen's get to the parking lot they don't see him anywhere they immediately call the police and then a week long How did that turn on?

[927] I didn't do anything.

[928] I think a ghost is here.

[929] The fan just fucking turned on by itself.

[930] That fan just turned on by itself.

[931] Stephen?

[932] If you invited a ghost, Bluetooth.

[933] It's like an old -timey fan.

[934] All right.

[935] If that happens again, I'm leaving.

[936] So they immediately called the police and a week -long search ensues.

[937] What the fuck?

[938] Helicopter scour the 11 -mine.

[939] stretch of the Arroyo Seco from Mount Wilson in the San Gabriel's to South Pasadena.

[940] They add more police officers.

[941] Even Tommy's father's named Eldon and his co -workers from the company he works for start showing up to help search for Tommy, all on foot, all in the area.

[942] Nothing's found.

[943] Tommy's basically disappeared without a trace.

[944] So there's no solid lead.

[945] So investigators, they're grasping for straws.

[946] And there's theories that Tommy may have been taken by a mountain lion, you know, or some, like a wild animal theory.

[947] There was also a theory that he'd somehow wandered to the, they were right near JPL, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

[948] Oh.

[949] Yeah.

[950] Which we got a tour of, Stephen and I, and Scotty Landis.

[951] That was kind of close by it.

[952] So they were thinking he wandered into that parking lot and someone from JPL kidnapped him.

[953] That's not the thing.

[954] They're just basically, yeah, we're like, those people are too smart, two together, and they're worried about space.

[955] Yeah.

[956] But basically they're trying to theorize of what the hell could have happened.

[957] There's no, of course, evidence to support either of these theories and nothing ever comes from that.

[958] So they kind of disappear.

[959] And then two different female eyewitnesses come forward to say that on the day of Tommy's disappearance, they had seen a little boy who looked like Tommy walking on the trail near Altadena Drive in Pasadena, crying.

[960] And they told police that just behind the boy was a deeply tanned, disheveled -looking man in khakis and a plaid shirt.

[961] One woman says he's wearing a plaid shirt.

[962] One woman says he's wearing a white t -shirt.

[963] So the investigators start questioning registered sex defenders in the area.

[964] while Tommy's father's employer, the Northrop Corporation, the one who people, his co -workers came to try to search, the Northrop Corporation puts up a cash reward for information leading to finding Tommy.

[965] But neither of those efforts brings any new leads.

[966] A few days after Tommy's disappearance, an unidentified man claims that he is holding Tommy Bowman and he demands a $2 ,500 ransom.

[967] So an exchange is set up at a gas station in Eagle Rock.

[968] Police, of course, are staking it out when the man arrives to get the cash.

[969] Police arrest him.

[970] They find out the whole thing's fake.

[971] He's just trying to get money.

[972] It's such a strangely unstable and weird thing to do where people couldn't be in a worse place and you're like, maybe I'll make money off.

[973] It's so gross.

[974] By 1960, the case of Tommy Bowman's disappearance goes cold.

[975] Okay.

[976] So, now we skipped a fall of 2005.

[977] No, what?

[978] Yeah.

[979] Nearly 50 years later in the fall of 2005, an author named Weston DeWalt.

[980] So this is the guy who this article that I found is about.

[981] It's about this author.

[982] So he is a successful author, and he's doing research on the jogging trails near his house in Pasadena when someone tells him about the long ago disappearance of Tommy Bowman.

[983] is like, I just want to know how the river flows in my area and you're like, well, guess what?

[984] Too bad, you're friends with the murder, you know, clearly.

[985] And someone's like, you want to know how the river flows?

[986] How about I tell you what shitty things are happening right behind your house?

[987] Oh, my God.

[988] So, but West Endowalt is intrigued.

[989] He's an author.

[990] He's, you know, so he starts looking into this case.

[991] He states that when he starts doing this digging, he realizes, quote, he made a decision that if he could find some of Tommy's relatives alive, I would write a book about what it meant to a family to wonder for 50 years, right?

[992] Heartbreaking.

[993] So he gets, he's basically he's in.

[994] He's like completely hooked by the fact that this boy basically just disappeared off the face of the earth.

[995] And nobody had any answers for 50 years.

[996] So Weston DeWalt makes contact with Tommy Bowman's father, Eldon.

[997] And Eldham actually invites him over to his house in Seamy Valley, where he now lives.

[998] And when he, when Weston gets there, Eldon is laid out all the investigative material.

[999] he's kept about his son's case for the past 50 years on the dining room table.

[1000] So there's letters and there's photographs and there's all the newspaper clippings.

[1001] And basically everything that Weston might want to know.

[1002] And after a lengthy lengthy discussion, Eldon agrees to let Weston DeWalt petition the L .A. County Sheriff's Department to reopen the case.

[1003] So basically DeWalt goes and he starts meeting with LAPD to talk about this and how this case needs to be reopened and over time he becomes friends with the cold gazed detective uh vivian flores um who had been working this case since that time and um she helps him sift through all the case file evidence and all the basically the available evidence and there when he's looking through it um weston finds an eyewitness sketch of the tanned disheveled man that was seen walking behind tommy by those two um eyewitnesses And immediately Weston recognizes the face in this sketch as being very similar to a photo he had seen while researching child abductions from the photo was from 1970 and it was of a man being led into a courtroom in handcuffs.

[1004] And that man was 51 year old, heavy equipment, at least at the time of the picture was taken, 51 year old heavy equipment operator named Mack Edwards.

[1005] Oh my God, chills.

[1006] Right?

[1007] So he sees it and is like, he's here and then in this, he's being arrested for child abduction.

[1008] So who is this guy?

[1009] Could it be the same guy?

[1010] We'll talk a little bit about Mack Edwards.

[1011] He moved.

[1012] He was an Arkansas native that moved to Silmar, California in the late 40s.

[1013] He had just been married in Arkansas.

[1014] So he's a newlywed.

[1015] He had been a combat engineer in World War II.

[1016] He and his wife in Silmar adopt two kids.

[1017] He joins the Union of Operating Engineers and gets a job building and repairing L .A.'s freeways.

[1018] He's basically just a heavy equipment operator.

[1019] And this is the time where they just start building all these freeways all around L .A. And so that's what he basically works on.

[1020] He operates the heavy machinery that Caltrans uses to build all these freeways and to grade, clear the land.

[1021] I know where this is going.

[1022] Yeah, you do.

[1023] Okay, so he is described as having a, quote, generally dorky demeanor.

[1024] So he wears glasses, he doesn't drink, he doesn't swear, he's very friendly, all the neighbors like him.

[1025] He actually owns horses that he lets the neighborhood kids ride.

[1026] He's also known for taking the neighborhood kids camping.

[1027] Oh, I bet he fucking is.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] So he's very well liked in the community because he's that great guy that's so nice.

[1030] One thousand red flags.

[1031] He loves children.

[1032] Get away.

[1033] Creep.

[1034] All those sentiments go away on March 5th, 1970.

[1035] When Mack Edwards walks into the foothill station of the Los Angeles Police Department, he puts a loaded gun on the front desk and tells the on -duty officer, I have a guilt complex.

[1036] What?

[1037] Uh -huh.

[1038] So he's taken into an interview room where he eventually confesses to the kidnapping of three young sisters from Silmar that had happened the day before.

[1039] Okay, so basically, according to Edwards, he tells police, that he and a teenage accomplice had broken in to the three girls' home during the early morning hours after their parents had left the house for the day.

[1040] They were robbing the house, and then they abducted the girls.

[1041] So they were sisters aged 12, 13, and 14.

[1042] I do not know why you'd want to fuck with three sisters in that age range.

[1043] That's dangerous.

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] These idiots didn't know it.

[1046] but they were about to find out they before they left the house they forced the girls to write notes to their parents saying they were running away from home which is fucking evil so evil so evil so if they get the girls in the car they drive to the Angeles National Forest which is just those words put strike fear into the heart at some point during this abduction though two of the three sisters get away and then the third sister is left there Edwards and his teenage accomplice of course panic, Edwards knows that these girls can identify him.

[1047] He's their old neighbor.

[1048] Oh, shit.

[1049] So they knew who he was.

[1050] He was like, oh, this is over.

[1051] So the Edwards and his accomplice just leave, and they leave the third sister in the forest.

[1052] Okay.

[1053] So Edwards knows that sooner or later he's going to get caught.

[1054] This situation's gone totally out of control.

[1055] So he decides, I'm just going to cut to the chase and turn myself in because it's going to happen anyway.

[1056] And why wait for it?

[1057] And it turns out the good news about all of that is that those girls were not attacked in any way or physically harmed by those men they basically scrambled the situation and got themselves out of it before anything bad could happen to them aside from the the kidnapping itself it's so awesome yeah i just think like there's you don't mess with sisters you don't mess with junior high level that's right sisters they will murder you yeah okay so um so mac Edwards, he basically, the police ask him why he decided to kidnap these girls.

[1058] And he tells them that he planned to rape and murder all three of them.

[1059] Holy shit.

[1060] And then Edward says to the police, now there's other matters to discuss.

[1061] And Mack Edwards goes on to confess that between the span of 1953 and 1969, he had kidnapped and murdered six children.

[1062] Oh my God.

[1063] So this is what he confesses to and what the police just have to, they can't write fast enough to say what is happening here.

[1064] First it was an eight -year -old girl named Stella Nolan.

[1065] So she disappeared from the flea market that her mom worked at in Norwalk on June 20th, 1953.

[1066] So the story was that her mom had to work.

[1067] She knew that her daughter would be bored.

[1068] She's an eight -year -old at this big flea market.

[1069] So she said you can walk around but you have to come back every hour on the hour and check in with me. So I know that you're here.

[1070] And so that's what they, that was the plan.

[1071] That's what they'd always done.

[1072] And this day, June 20th, when she was supposed to check in at 9 o 'clock, she never showed up.

[1073] So immediately the mother knew something was wrong because Stella was super responsible and really smart and would not have just blown it off.

[1074] So she called the police immediately.

[1075] But she was, again, it was a child who just disappeared without a trace.

[1076] No one saw anything.

[1077] and that case went cold for 16 years.

[1078] Next was 13 -year -old Don Baker and 11 -year -old Brenda Howell.

[1079] They'd gone bike riding together in San Gabriel Canyon on August 6, 1956, and they were never seen again.

[1080] Because the bodies could not be found.

[1081] This case, there was just no evidence.

[1082] So that case went cold.

[1083] This confession was especially shocking because Brenda Howell, the 11 -year -old, was actually Mack Edwards' sister -in -law.

[1084] He was his, it was his wife's little sister that he murdered.

[1085] Um, yeah.

[1086] So then he swears that he's, that he stopped murdering children for 12 years.

[1087] Oh, great.

[1088] He tried to get it all together.

[1089] Um, but that changed on November 26th, 1968, um, when he shot and killed a 16 year old Gary Rocha in Rocha's home in Granada Hills.

[1090] then his son's classmate was a 16 -year -old named Roger Madison and Roger had left his house for the evening never to be seen again.

[1091] It turns out that Edwards had lured him into an orange grove and were stabbed him repeatedly on December 14th, 1968.

[1092] So just killed him right there.

[1093] Finally, Edwards confesses to kidnapping 13 -year -old Donald Todd from his Pekoyama home on May 16th, 1969.

[1094] Donald's body was found under a footbridge.

[1095] He'd been sexually assaulted and shot to death.

[1096] So Edwards said that all these crimes were motivated by an urge for sex.

[1097] So he assaulted all of these victims.

[1098] And that was basically what was behind all of this.

[1099] So these investigators know that in this 12 -year period where he's saying I was basically, I was trying to be good eyed my family and all this bullshit.

[1100] They're just like, no. So he basically, he confesses to these six murders, pleads guilty to three counts of kidnapping and three counts of murder because those are the, they only have the bodies of three victims.

[1101] Right.

[1102] He's immediately found guilty in sentence to death.

[1103] And he's sent to San Quentin and he's put on death row.

[1104] The reason that we've never heard, or at least I've never heard of Macrae, Edwards is because right when he went to jail and when all this like this story broke, it was exactly at the same time as the Manson murders and when they arrested Charles Manson and the Manson family.

[1105] So it completely got obliterated by the Manson murder story.

[1106] Isn't that crazy?

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] And this is a child, this is a, I keep saying child serial killer.

[1109] Yeah.

[1110] Serial kill, a serial killer of children.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] Which is I think the worst.

[1113] I mean, it's also bad.

[1114] Yeah.

[1115] So basically he just disappears because of Manson.

[1116] When he goes to San Quentin, whose two cells down from him, Charles Manson.

[1117] Oh, yes.

[1118] Gross.

[1119] Can you imagine how boring that fucking idiot was?

[1120] The whole, the babbling that went on in that block.

[1121] And there is actually a teenage prisoner that was only identified as being named Roberto that was the person between the two cells.

[1122] Oh my God, he's like.

[1123] So he has Charles Manson on one side who he said he actually enjoyed talking to Mac Ray Edwards more because Charles Manson would be nice one second offering him cigarettes and then threatened to kill him the next second.

[1124] Meanwhile, Edwards was really friendly and normal the whole time but then starts telling him about all the other kids that he's killed.

[1125] No. Yes.

[1126] So he's doing that jailhouse confession slash brag thing to the poor guy in the cell next to him where he said he couldn't sleep at night because the guy was just talking and telling him all these other kids that he had murdered.

[1127] So that's all bad.

[1128] It's so horrible.

[1129] It's so horrible.

[1130] So basically when he's found guilty and he's sent to St. Quentin, he tells the court, I want to be electrocated in an electric chair.

[1131] Can you move me up to the front of the line?

[1132] There's some people that are there, they're waiting and they're sweating.

[1133] I want, I want to be in the electric chair.

[1134] It's all I've ever wanted.

[1135] Oh my God.

[1136] They're like, yeah, it doesn't work like that friend.

[1137] And because it is all you've ever wanted, now you'll never get it.

[1138] Right now we're fucking terrified of you.

[1139] Yeah.

[1140] So the request is denied.

[1141] He makes several suicide attempts.

[1142] And finally, in November of 1971, McRae Edwards hangs himself with a TV court in his prison cell at the age 52.

[1143] So August, we're now back to August of 2006, where Weston DeWalt has dinner with Mac Edwards' 76 -year -old widow and her family.

[1144] No way.

[1145] Yes.

[1146] So he's basically saying, I'm trying to investigate these murders.

[1147] I'm trying to get these victims, families, some kind of, it's never closure but some kind of answer.

[1148] Right.

[1149] And he, to that dinner brings Bill Gleason, who's a consultant for the California Department of Justice.

[1150] And so during that visit, Max Widow reveals he'd written a confession letter to her right before his suicide from jail.

[1151] And in the letter, Edward says this about his original confession.

[1152] I was going to add one more, but that was the Tommy Bowman boy that disappeared in Pasadena, but I felt like I would really make a mess of it of that one.

[1153] So I left him out of it.

[1154] So then DeWalt finds that Max employer in 1969 was a company called cursed construction.

[1155] And they had an equipment yard less than half a mile from where Tommy Bowman went missing.

[1156] And in this letter, Edwards also tells his wife that he'd only killed one of the six children that he'd admitted to.

[1157] And that the person responsible for the other five murders was his quote, crippled neighbor as the way he describes him.

[1158] He basically told his wife he's trying to cover for this neighbor who's the one who really did it.

[1159] What a hero.

[1160] But Weston DeWalt looks into this story.

[1161] There's no neighbor there never had been.

[1162] So then West Endewald, the author, he tracks down Edwards arresting officer to get more information.

[1163] Basically, he's trying to fill in these gaps.

[1164] And that guy points him to another guard that Edwards had kind of befriended before he was transferred to San Quentin.

[1165] So that guard, the second guard tells DeWalt that while in prison, Edwards confessed to him that he was actually responsible for 18 murders, not just six.

[1166] Jesus.

[1167] When the guard asked Edwards why he didn't confess to all of them, Edwards told him that it was because the cops had, quote, said bad things about me in court.

[1168] Okay, dude, they're allowed to.

[1169] I mean, you're a bad guy.

[1170] Yeah.

[1171] But also it's that weird kind of thinking where because they don't care about other.

[1172] human beings and they don't think about other human beings or whatever.

[1173] He doesn't see the difference between confessing to these six and letting all these other people off the hook for children that disappeared out of the blue for these poor families.

[1174] So then the guy that was in the cell between Manson and Edwards, Roberto, Roberto, he said that Edwards confessed to at least 20.

[1175] Jesus.

[1176] To him.

[1177] We may never know the true count of his victim.

[1178] authorities believe it's definitely safe to assume it's more than six.

[1179] So the bodies of three of Edwards' known victims, Don Baker, Brenda Howell, and Roger Madison were never found.

[1180] But Detective Flores had been focusing her efforts on finding Roger Madison's body.

[1181] She finally gets a break when she discovers there's a transcript of Mack Edwards' confession of the murder of Donald Todd.

[1182] And in that confession, Edward says that he stabbed Madison in a Silmar Orange Grove and buried him along the 23 freeway on Caltrans land in Moore Park.

[1183] But that freeway was still under construction at the time.

[1184] So Flores finds a retired Caltrans employee.

[1185] This is how hard she's working this case.

[1186] I'm on the edge of my seat.

[1187] She finds a retired CalTrans employee who had kept detailed logs of the work he had done over the years, like where and where.

[1188] and when.

[1189] So using his logs, they're able to pinpoint the exact location of where Caltrans had been working along the 23 Freeway on December 16th, 1969.

[1190] So three months later, Detective Flores has corpse -sniffing dogs sent to the area where they were supposed to have been working.

[1191] And those dogs all find the same spot.

[1192] Are you like 50 years later and under cement?

[1193] Right.

[1194] And so they, that's when they're like, okay, this is where we're going to start.

[1195] So on October 6th, 2008, Flores and her team start digging up the area next to the 23 freeway in Moore Park.

[1196] They do dig for five days.

[1197] And even though that there were DNA tests taken of the area that showed that Roger's DNA was there.

[1198] and ground penetrating radar said that there was something buried there and of course the logs showed they couldn't find anything and if they kept on digging they were going to have to shut down the freeway it could have been like you know five fucking feet off that's what's like such a bummer about it's so frustrating and because this guy essentially they're not going to shut down the freeway so the dig is called off and there's something so especially sinister the fact that he this is, this was the plan all along.

[1199] Yeah.

[1200] Because when he was working on these freeways, basically he would time his murders knowing that they were about to go do, basically be building these things.

[1201] So the night before he would go dig the hole and then put his murder victims in these graves.

[1202] And then the next day it would all get covered over by cement and freeways.

[1203] That's the creepiest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[1204] so it's like the the original freeway killer story where it's like just bad vibes like that's what this is all about down here that's what this fucking creepy road ragey aggro feeling it but it was all rural back then yes and like it was all families trying to come out here and and make a difference and you know make their way it wasn't it wasn't Hollywood and everything and it's just it's crazy it's it's so nuts um so as sad as that is and it's unsatisfying as that is it's basically yeah shut down the freeways who cares find those remains yeah it's basically red tape it's not going to happen right what's cool and lovely and small but still important is that roger's sister came and she got to leave flowers next to basically the excavation area where they were trying to find him and they um the police who were standing by and And the Caltrans employees, everybody, like, removed their hats and had a moment of silence for Roger Madison and his loss of life.

[1205] And then they basically had to cover it all over.

[1206] So despite his claims, no one believes that, of course, Mac Edwards went dormant for 12 years between Brenda Howell and Don Baker's double murder and Gary Roach's murder.

[1207] So Weston DeWalt, Vivian Flores, many LAPD, cold case detectives continue to this day to try linking Matt.

[1208] Mac Edwards' movements and personal timeline with all the cold cases of missing and murdered children in Southern California.

[1209] And that is the deeply disturbing and little -known story of Mack Ray Edwards, LA's least known serial killer of children.

[1210] Fuck, man. Who knew?

[1211] Isn't that fucked?

[1212] What a crazy story.

[1213] Yeah.

[1214] Good job.

[1215] Thank you.

[1216] It gets me in so many ways.

[1217] I know.

[1218] He's the, oh, he lets everybody ride the horses.

[1219] Yeah.

[1220] And he's so nice.

[1221] And let's go camping.

[1222] He's a molesting, murdering piece of shit.

[1223] He also, they eventually, you know, as they dug up all these files and everything, before he left Arkansas, he had molested a girl.

[1224] It was probably the reason that he left and came out.

[1225] So it's like he's just got the longest track record.

[1226] It's just so.

[1227] And what a perfect place to come to when you're like in a small town in Arkansas that you get run out of because you're molesting someone.

[1228] You go to L .A. where it's like it's a big sprawling, you know, anonymous city.

[1229] Yep.

[1230] That's a growing.

[1231] You've got to be, oh, the freeway aspect is so chilling.

[1232] And also the way he did it where somehow he was able to get in and out of these places unseen and unnoticed.

[1233] He's, you know, like just kind of the master of that thing where however he did it.

[1234] And the idea that Tommy Bowman was crying when he was walking up that street and the man was behind it.

[1235] And clearly he knew how to very quickly, like, win the favor of and then intimidate children.

[1236] Or is it a time and a place where you mind your own fucking business?

[1237] And so no one is noticing these things and it's just a kid crying and upset and you don't think twice about it.

[1238] A mean dad and it's none of your business.

[1239] You're right.

[1240] It was so long before.

[1241] Like, this is pre so much stuff.

[1242] Yeah, stranger danger.

[1243] It's pre everything where it's just like you could hit your kids.

[1244] You could hit your neighbors kids.

[1245] everybody gets hit yeah every teachers no one gets looked out for kids are out like hiking alone I mean he wasn't but you know is that it was the time where it was just like sure if you want to go off and wander around for a while sure do yeah yeah just we just didn't know we didn't know no one no polite just to adults and yeah and assume that if somebody you know whether it owns horses or goes to church or whatever is like everyone's buying everybody else's mask just a hundred percent outright and like sounds good if you're a man you have a job and you're blue color and then you're nice yeah no one will suspect these children camping great no good job thank you that I need a I'm going to put something in Google like similar and get a story like that because that was fucking yeah paid art yeah it really was horrible it was horrible it was the worst of all paydirt but also it's the thing where you're you, I always think I've heard everything.

[1246] And you're, of course not.

[1247] There's so much terrible shit out there, so much.

[1248] And we promise we'll bring it to you the second we find out about it.

[1249] We almost have 200 episodes.

[1250] Can you believe that?

[1251] We have to do a good one for our 200.

[1252] What are we going to do?

[1253] I don't know.

[1254] When?

[1255] Stephen, just do it.

[1256] Make it happen.

[1257] Just edit everything we've ever said together.

[1258] What was my idea the other day of a compilation of, the like one word from every episode you're like Stephen I know you're busy Stephen if we're going to do a 200th episode what if we just do like a great moment from every Georgia goes sorry how sorry sorry I'm from Canada how is he supposed to do that and I was like oh yeah I don't know I just I just want to try to figure something out he's kind of running exactly right audio engineering program he's kind of producing five other podcasts right now simultaneously as well several pilots but yeah no that's not going to work out what's your um and do you have a cigarette I just got a cigarette gesture to Georgia with the pen it was pretty fabulous this is like me all through grammar school another way to get a little attention pretend to smoke as a child it's pay dirt pay dirt it's so funny do you have a fucking hooray I'm sure I do Okay.

[1259] I guess my fucking array is like a future fucking array.

[1260] Is that like, I can't wait to step onto that plane tomorrow.

[1261] Hell yes, girl.

[1262] I can't wait.

[1263] And like, so my therapist is like, you have to do five positives every day.

[1264] I can't want people being cold.

[1265] UK and Ireland fucking air.

[1266] I can't wait.

[1267] It's going to be all Christmasy over there and shit, which I love.

[1268] Yeah.

[1269] We're going to eat the best fucking food.

[1270] We're going to have all this time on the airplane to work.

[1271] That's terrible.

[1272] And it's just going to be great.

[1273] I'm really looking forward to this trip.

[1274] And then the three of us are going to fucking Barcelona for the last three days just to have it.

[1275] We're calling it a work retreat.

[1276] It's a company retreat.

[1277] It's right.

[1278] That's right.

[1279] I can't wait.

[1280] It's going to be so warm.

[1281] We're going to eat so much.

[1282] I love it.

[1283] Do you know that the company retreat is me laying in your guys's bed in your hotel room?

[1284] With us over.

[1285] With us being drunk.

[1286] Karen, I want more top of.

[1287] get them for you just give me four hours um i'm so happy to hear you say that because you know by the end of our the fucking dude winter spring tour which really was just the entire first half of 2019 tour it really felt like neither of us ever wanted to do it ever again it was so you know it was long it was consistent it was whatever so i'm glad i'm glad that you know we took enough time off that this is actually like yay me too Because it is so fun and exciting.

[1288] I think mine is a, I definitely want to piggyback on that because I am truly so excited.

[1289] And, but also today, so I of course leave everything in the last minute.

[1290] So today in between six other things that I'm supposed to do, I ran to Macy's just to get some tights and what have you.

[1291] I get to get you some tights.

[1292] But as I was standing there in the line, which was very long and I started in my head, basically like as if I'm on the phone we're going can you please hire more people it's the holidays there's like it's one o 'clock in the afternoon and that we're eight deep here at the in the lingerie section at macy's right um but instead of doing that I was just kind of trying to uh my my thing that I'm working on now thank you Tara Brock is the just awareness of what you're thinking so that you can change your thought patterns so it's like if I'm just standing there And my habit is to mentally yell at people, maybe just put a pause on that and see what's actually happening around me that I could be enjoying instead of being in my thoughts negatively.

[1293] Okay.

[1294] And I'm standing, I realize I'm standing as to a huge display of pajamas.

[1295] And they look kind of cozy and they're like flannel red plaid pajamas.

[1296] Yeah.

[1297] So I start touching them like, I want flannel red plaid pajamas.

[1298] Out of nowhere, this lady comes around the corner and goes, I got pajamas just like that for my grandkids.

[1299] children.

[1300] They all matched.

[1301] We took a picture.

[1302] It was the greatest.

[1303] She starts telling me some goddamn story.

[1304] Surprise grandma.

[1305] Surprise grandma who had no, there was not even, it was as if I told her, could you meet me here at one o 'clock so we could talk about this?

[1306] I wish I had a story about these pajamas.

[1307] And then boom, around the corner.

[1308] And I realize when I'm not in my head, projecting and making problems or trying to work through problems, I'm the kind of person people walk up to and tell random shit too.

[1309] Yes.

[1310] Okay.

[1311] A hundred percent.

[1312] If I can keep myself present.

[1313] Okay.

[1314] And that is, I have to remind myself, I love that.

[1315] The way she told me that story and as if it was vital information I needed to know that was going to help me decide whether or not I was going to get these pajamas.

[1316] I was just like, yes.

[1317] And then she did you get them?

[1318] As she walked away.

[1319] Well, I wasn't thinking of them really for me. It was conceptual, but I was like, pajamas.

[1320] Christmas, my sister always gets me pajamas for Christmas.

[1321] are the best fucking gifts for people.

[1322] Everybody always needs and wants them.

[1323] Always the best.

[1324] Always.

[1325] But as she walked away, she goes, I don't know what I'm going to do this year.

[1326] And then I yell after her like, you can beat it.

[1327] You can do it.

[1328] If you did it last year, you can do it this year.

[1329] I'm having, it's a like, it was the funniest moment.

[1330] So anyway, it was just a little reminder to me. I think it's like, open yourself up to surprise grandmas.

[1331] Yes.

[1332] Because that's the, that is the stuff of life.

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] It's not the satisfaction.

[1335] you get yelling at people because there's not enough people working at the counter, that doesn't give me anything.

[1336] It depletes me entirely.

[1337] Even when it's just mental.

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] Where of like being mad or staying in anger.

[1340] Is it adrenal glands and shit?

[1341] They just are like, no. It doesn't do anything.

[1342] And also it's just like, and I'm lucky enough to be here shopping in the first place.

[1343] You're going to get to the front of the line at some point.

[1344] Yes.

[1345] You might as well talk to a surprise.

[1346] I'm really obsessed with the surprise grandma.

[1347] Surprise grandma is kind of the greatest because also they're all around us.

[1348] But if you're not, If I am not paying attention and if I need to feel like the way I control the world is pre -argue everything so the argument's ready, it's I'm ruining my own good time.

[1349] Okay.

[1350] And I think I'm getting okay at trying to keep it in mind, but like especially on this trip, that's when you need to do it the most because I have so many flights.

[1351] Yes, and you just anticipate this is going to be bad and this.

[1352] And it's like, no, no, no, these are all opportunities to have surprise grandma moments.

[1353] I love it.

[1354] Oh my god, that's it Right?

[1355] That's the answer to life So let's all keep our surprise grandma diary For our trip Then we can go back and tell these stories All right, I'll see you at LAX tomorrow And we'll do it Let's do it We'll have a go surprise grandma Surprise Grandma come out wherever you are Awesome Love it, love it, love it Um Fucking thanks for listening You guys, we appreciate you so much I was at a bar last night And this crying girl came up to me Freaking out and said I just got dumped but seeing I'm seeing I just ran into you and it made my night oh she was so sweet that's such a nice thing for such a shitty I know and I was like fuck him fuck everything yes I'm so happy to meet you and your friends are all around you yeah it's what I said too look up your murderina friends they're here yes it's just such a rad community you know as you say that sorry but I just had one where I walked into the Starbucks I was actually just walking out of the Starbucks and a girl was walking in and she had the moment as we were passing the doorway where she went and I stopped and I was like yep and then she didn't know what to do and I had I was on my of course I was already 10 minutes late but I had to stop me at Starbucks and she stood there for a moment and then I was like hi good to see you and I was trying to kind of like end it and then she just looked around and who started going oh my God to the rest of the Starbucks and so I just laughed so I apologize to her because her excitement was real I'm sorry that I don't like that I like the beginning and not the end so I bailed and I apologize I apologize so different you and I we really but this was a small quiet Starbucks that I just been super a part of and then it was like I caused yelling at the door tomorrow and shit and they like I need to be able to go back.

[1356] That's happened in my manicure place a couple times where I'm sure they're wondering who the fuck is this shit?

[1357] She must be some kind of lunatic.

[1358] That was the point of saying, thanks you guys for supporting us.

[1359] We're so lucky.

[1360] Supporting us, even when I don't make it seem like it's what I want, it is what I want, and thank you for doing it.

[1361] It means the world.

[1362] We're so grateful.

[1363] We're grateful we get to go to the UK and Ireland again.

[1364] We can't wait to tell you all about it.

[1365] So amazing.

[1366] It's going to be real good.

[1367] That's right.

[1368] So thanks for everything.

[1369] Stay sexy.

[1370] And don't get murdered.

[1371] Goodbye.

[1372] Elvis, you want a cookie?

[1373] Ah!