Impose Your Will on Your Money With a Budget!

[0] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Number one, bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co -host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz, my daughter is my co -host today.

[2] Open phones, the phone number is 3 ,825 -5 -225.

[3] The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

[4] Phil is with us to start this hour in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

[5] I got a problem with my deal on here.

[6] Just bring that.

[7] Bring it up.

[8] Bring it up, Phil for me. Can you turn that off?

[9] Hey, Phil.

[10] How are you?

[11] I'm fantastic.

[12] How are you guys?

[13] Can you hear me?

[14] Better than I deserve.

[15] What's up?

[16] Well, Dave, my wife and I are having what we believe.

[17] believe to be as a financial meltdown.

[18] We need some help.

[19] We need some advice.

[20] We're tired of owing people money.

[21] We want to get out of debt ASAP.

[22] And frankly, the arguments and the stress is making it hard to sleep at night.

[23] We're on the verge of divorce due to this.

[24] Wow.

[25] Okay.

[26] How much debt have you got?

[27] I can go through it quickly.

[28] I've got 38K and a personal loan that's rollover from credit card debt.

[29] 29 in the car loan.

[30] Of course, that's upside down.

[31] down, 28 student loan, 12 in consumer debt, and eight in another car loan, the daughter's car loan.

[32] And then we got the house.

[33] You know, we owe $150 on the house.

[34] If we sold it today, it'd be worth, $250, $2 .70, it would sell for.

[35] Have you got a beeping in the background at your place, or is that a technical thing on my end?

[36] That's us.

[37] That's us, Dave.

[38] Oh, it is?

[39] Yeah.

[40] All right.

[41] Thanks.

[42] My brain's about to be fried over this.

[43] Okay.

[44] sorry.

[45] So what's your household income?

[46] Oh no, do we lose him?

[47] Now we lost him.

[48] Okay.

[49] We're breaking down.

[50] Yeah, it's all falling apart.

[51] Okay, we'll hopefully we'll get him back up because that's it was a lot, a lot of numbers, and we're finding continually, it's a consistent issue of money becoming such a major part of people's marriage issues.

[52] I mean, this is a thing that has continued to be an issue.

[53] Can you concentrate?

[54] No, I can't, but that's okay.

[55] You're right.

[56] I think we're getting Phil back now.

[57] We're getting it.

[58] We're getting it.

[59] Okay.

[60] Phil, we will have you on, I promise.

[61] We're going to try to help you here, buddy.

[62] Okay, there, are you back, Phil?

[63] I'm here.

[64] Sorry about that.

[65] I'm sorry about that.

[66] No, that's okay.

[67] We blew a fuse over here somewhere.

[68] But anyway, so you guys are, how long you've been married?

[69] 18 years this year.

[70] Yeah, and what did you say your household income is, sir?

[71] Together, we're gross in 174.

[72] Okay.

[73] So why are you not able to pay these bills with 174?

[74] They look payable to me. And when we actually sit down and look at it, I agree 100%.

[75] But frankly, we have never sat down and truly have done a budget.

[76] Okay.

[77] And if we're fighting over money all the time, why would we not do that then?

[78] Just a communication issue.

[79] I mean, if you sat down with your wife tonight and said, honey, Look, we have to map our way through this in a way that we can agree to so we don't kill each other.

[80] And we make enough money to pay these bills.

[81] We just need to get aligned on how to do it.

[82] Would you sit down here and help me write this out and us be in agreement?

[83] And neither one of us raise our voice.

[84] Could you not do that?

[85] We're getting there.

[86] No, I'm talking about tonight.

[87] Why couldn't you do that tonight?

[88] Does she know about all these numbers, Phil?

[89] Does she know the amount of debt?

[90] She does.

[91] So what's the stick?

[92] What's the fly in the ointment?

[93] You're going to have to tell me. I think it's just a fear of buckling down and actually handling it.

[94] I think on both of our parts.

[95] Okay.

[96] And you said your daughter car.

[97] So you have a teenage daughter you don't want to tell no, too.

[98] That's difficult to do, yes.

[99] Yeah.

[100] The other part is she just got accepted to a local private college, both for academics and athletics.

[101] That's scaring me to death also because...

[102] Are you supposed to pay for it after she got accepted?

[103] That is a correct statement, yes.

[104] Well, I don't care.

[105] I can't afford it, honey, unless we figure this out.

[106] So one thing you figured out already, I figured out in 35 seconds talking to you is your teenage daughter has a vote in this and she shouldn't.

[107] It's not her money.

[108] She's causing...

[109] You're not saying no to her, either one of you?

[110] this kid needs to hear no is part of what's causing your problem.

[111] Now, I'm not saying you're going to have to say she can't go that college or you have to sell her car, but you might have to say both.

[112] You make $174 ,000 a year.

[113] You make plenty of money to pay these bills.

[114] I agree 100%.

[115] And we're not behind on anything by any means.

[116] I'm tired of making the minimum payments.

[117] I want to get these things paid all.

[118] Yeah, absolutely.

[119] And you're out of control.

[120] You all just spend and spend and spend and spend with no plan.

[121] and because nobody hears the word no in your place.

[122] And so the grown -ups in the place are going to have to circle the wagons, you and your wife and say, all right, as grown -ups, we're going to do what's best for this family in the long term, which means in the short term we're going to say no to some things to ourselves and to all the non -grown -ups in the family who don't get a vote.

[123] I understand.

[124] Is that old -school dinosaur stuff or what?

[125] I like it.

[126] I mean, that's really what you're going to have to do.

[127] It's, so one of the things I did, Sharon and I did, Sharon and I said this when we were fighting like crazy.

[128] We were going bankrupt, losing everything.

[129] Rachel was a brand new baby.

[130] And we said, all right, if we ran a business and it was our job to handle money for that business to be the CFO of that company, the chief financial officer of that company, we would get fired for incompetence.

[131] You would lose your job, Phil, if that was your job.

[132] Y 'all suck at this.

[133] Well, I agree.

[134] And so we said that to ourselves, too.

[135] So I can say that to you.

[136] So, I mean, I'm not picking on you.

[137] I'm agreeing with you on this stance.

[138] But we kind of said, we got to get above this and treat it like we want to keep our job because God gave us the job of running this household.

[139] And we're not doing it.

[140] We're incompetent.

[141] We're not doing a good job of that.

[142] And so we're now going to become professional money managers of this house.

[143] And we're going to tell our money what to do instead of wondering why we're sitting here stress making 174 grand and if you and your wife can get into agreement on that type then you can go anywhere you need to go from there does that make sense yes sir yeah well and i was going to say too phil that when you said earlier how we can't sit down and just have a conversation because we can't even like communicate about this because there is so much fear there is so much heightened emotion and i think what's going to start to come to the surface as you guys dig into these numbers is you're actually going to see a lot of oh my gosh we've broken down in communication on a lot of life not probably just this situation and what we do find which i i hope gives you hope is that for so many people that walk a journey that choose to really be intentional about a part of their life and we're in the we're in the world of money so this is what we hear all the time is we're going to we're going to work on this money problem together and then suddenly you start to realize oh my gosh a lot of our marriage problems it's not that they're being solved, but they're coming up to the surface.

[144] We're seeing them.

[145] And because we're able to communicate well and on a same plan on one area of our marriage, like money, all these other areas seem to start to have a commonality and that unity starts to be built.

[146] So it's kind of the chicken or the egg of like marriage stuff and money.

[147] But this money stuff, if you guys can choose to get on the same page, it actually can be the thing to help improve your marriage because you're going to work as a team for maybe the first time in a long time.

[148] Yeah.

[149] If you can get aligned on your spending, you've aligned yourself on your value system.

[150] Your fears, your dreams all come into line.

[151] The budget can actually be used to heal a marriage.

[152] It actually is used all the time.

[153] Marriage counselors do it.

[154] So I got great hope for you guys.

[155] Hang on.

[156] We'll get you into FPU.

[157] You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan.

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[170] Healthtrustfinancial .com.

[171] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[172] The Bible says no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness.

[173] The way we say it around here is if you'll live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else.

[174] I met a couple at the break.

[175] Rachel and I were out having pictures.

[176] So 14 years ago, we got out of debt.

[177] And I said, well, you have to be a baby steps millionaires.

[178] And he goes, oh, yeah, definitely.

[179] So that's what happens.

[180] There's a live like no one else.

[181] So later you can live and give like no one else.

[182] If you are on baby step four and beyond, which means you are out of debt, have your emergency fund in place, and you're now working on investing and paying off your house and your kids' college and that kind of stuff.

[183] Now you're in the investing phase of your financial plan and our baby steps.

[184] Now you can go on vacation.

[185] But until then, you should not be on vacation.

[186] You should be getting out of debt and you should be building your emergency.

[187] emergency fund.

[188] Baby steps one through three.

[189] But if you're four and beyond, we want to offer you the live like no one else.

[190] Cruise!

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[195] And it's all the Ramsey personalities, plus a bunch of country music and Christian music folk on there with us.

[196] We're going to be doing all kinds of special events.

[197] No one will be on the ship except Ramsey people.

[198] All of them will be living like no one else.

[199] So if you want to celebrate your milestone of reaching that, Turks and Kaco, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, and the Bahamas might be a good place to do that, March 22 through 29 of the year 2025.

[200] So about 10 months, 11 months from now, we'll be going.

[201] There are just a few cabins left.

[202] You can still go, though.

[203] We want you to go.

[204] You can put down only a $600 deposit, secure your cabin before they are gone.

[205] We are selling out rather rapidly, and you can get a cabin, though.

[206] You need to get on the phone.

[207] You need to get on the website and start talking about it right now.

[208] This is the ultimate debt -free celebration.

[209] It includes Stephen Curtis Chapman.

[210] And it's going to be fun.

[211] We planned out the itinerary and saw, you know, the speakers for the night and sessions we're all going to do.

[212] It's going to be fun.

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[214] We will all be on there the entire seven days with you.

[215] So come out, hang out, whether.

[216] It's going to be awesome.

[217] Ramsey Solutions .com slash cruise.

[218] You don't want to miss this.

[219] It's going to be incredible.

[220] All right, I want to circle back to Phil's call and the concept for a second.

[221] Families make $174 ,000.

[222] They've got the money to pay their bills, but they're out of control.

[223] So we have seen for years going through Financial Peace University, learning to be on a budget together.

[224] You mentioned it to him has healed many a marriage because it forces you to negotiate every part of your life.

[225] because money flows in and out of almost every part of your life.

[226] You know, are we going to give to church?

[227] Are we going to save for kids' college?

[228] Are we going to have the kids in a private school?

[229] Are we going to, all these questions have money attached to them, and they all represent something you care about, your values.

[230] And when you can get aligned on your values, when you can agree on your spending, you're agreeing on your fears, your dreams, you're agreeing on your problems, you're even agreeing eventually on the order on which to attack, the problems and decide if the kid goes to the private school the kid wants to the kid keeps the car there's an 8 ,000 on a loan on it or not now how do you get to Phil's place it's where most people are they're out of control and chaotic and any system including a family and the operation of a family is a system believe it or not it's it is science it more than it is art the any system left to itself, without an outside force holding in in place, deteriorates and becomes chaotic.

[231] Families that don't plan to do things ever, eventually it catches up with them.

[232] The chaos takes over, and that could be in the money section.

[233] It could be on, you know, we're not planning for college, we're not planning for retirement, we're not planning to buy the next car, we're not planning anything.

[234] and it always surprises you then when Christmas is here in December.

[235] And so what this does is it forces a family to impose its will.

[236] It forces the husband and wife together to agree on and impose their will on the chaos and force it into order.

[237] That's what budgeting does.

[238] And it forces you to discuss the things where you are not aligned.

[239] and that's why I give great hope for Phil because he was answering he's over it he's ready to fix this sure sure he's ready to say no to himself to his wife to his daughter yep and impose our will on this broken mess and so folks I want to tell you I don't care how broke you are I don't care out of control or stuck you feel you can impose your will with it on the system using a budget using just start writing it out Sharon I would just write out a list of debts that we had we had it out a list of goals that we have.

[240] And then we put those in order.

[241] Which thing would we do?

[242] If we had some money, what will we do first?

[243] We dreamed again after we went broke.

[244] And we had yellow pads full of dreams, yellow pads full of goals, yellow pads full of debts and problems, and yellow pads full of a budget.

[245] And those things eventually, as we imposed our will on that system, eventually became our life.

[246] And it's what we've been teaching you guys now for 30 years.

[247] that's how you run it yeah and i wonder to the caution when it comes to even making that first step of imposing your will and just doing a budget because i think it does it takes either a moment in time of a crisis kind of where he was at of we call it your i've had it moment i've had it i'm done it's either it's either that or it's just this big humility pill that you have to swallow to say what i've done obviously isn't working and i think that's hard for anyone to admit right they're like a part of your life that's falling apart, realizing that you've done that.

[248] Like, there's a level of self -acceptance there.

[249] Oh, yeah.

[250] That can be so hard.

[251] Oh, it's very hard.

[252] And I think those are the barriers.

[253] But when you push through those emotions and you actually sit down and do it, the change occurs.

[254] You know, you start to actually start walking it out.

[255] But even that first step for people emotionally can be very difficult.

[256] The weird thing is you change when you have a crisis, but you can create the crisis.

[257] Yeah.

[258] In his case, the car crisis is coming from the outside.

[259] It's a marriage problem and everything's blowing up.

[260] there's tension in the home.

[261] But I've had two debt -free screamers this week who I asked them what there.

[262] I've had it moment where you finally just go, that's it, I've had it.

[263] And in both of those two cases, they said, I was disgusted that we make this much and we're this broke.

[264] That's a created crisis.

[265] You're not in, you're not about to be foreclosed on, you know, but you look up and you go, we make too much money, we work too hard to have.

[266] freaking nothing.

[267] I've had it.

[268] And you can just reach that down inside.

[269] And when you do that, that's when the switch flips.

[270] That's when you say, okay, I don't care what the teenager thinks.

[271] I don't care what your mother -in -law thinks.

[272] I don't care what the neighbor thinks.

[273] I don't care what anybody thinks.

[274] We're fixing this crap.

[275] And when you do that, now you're imposing your will on the chaotic life and you will bring order to it and it's your only hope of not living your whole life broke so good it's so true it is it's and the other element of that that I think is difficult is that change it is it's it's embracing something new and that's one thing I just did a video on my show right before this um this show and just talking about just the simplicity of the baby steps that you can list out seven right there's seven but the order of that brings order to people's lives too.

[276] That's one reason I think that this plan, out a majority of financial people out there, is the most successful financially, because in order to have change, you need to have a plan that you have confidence in.

[277] And there's a level of submitting to that, that this works.

[278] So even if you're listening to this and you're new to it, just having confidence in, okay, I'm going to have change and submit to a plan, create order, everything that you're saying, but you're doing it to a system that works.

[279] And that's been proven, which is the confidence that we get to bring every day on the show, which is...

[280] that comes into almost anything.

[281] I mean, why would you push down on the accelerator if you didn't have confident that the car was going to go forward?

[282] And if it doesn't go forward, then people just stomp on it because you're surprised that it doesn't go forward, right?

[283] Why would you push down on the brake if you didn't think the car was going to stop?

[284] You have confidence in the system.

[285] And, you know, that's why a lot of people fail at something like a diet because they try it for a little bit and they don't get any result and so they lose confidence to your point in the system and they bail and so they stick with it like a whole 45 minutes or something and um you know i will freely admit that i have no confidence in kale for anything but just actually i read a thing that it's actually not that good for you if that i have a lot of confidence in donut avoidance donut avoidance has worked real well for me um although my life is lesser for you it.

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[288] Hey good folks, the back to school madness is upon us.

[289] It's hitting us right now.

[290] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[291] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[292] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

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[294] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[295] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[296] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[297] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

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[317] Open phones here at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[318] Logan is in Chicago.

[319] Hi, Logan.

[320] What's up?

[321] Hi, Dave.

[322] Thank you for taking my call.

[323] I'm in a big pickle right now.

[324] I just lost my job, and I have a lot of debt that I don't know how am I going to pay that debt off so that's scary yeah how old are you i'm 19 whoa you on your own no i still live with my parents but i made some pretty terrible decisions in last couple years so okay what kind of debt have you got sure i have a car loan about 24 grand and then i have about fifty five hundred dollars worth of credit card debt that I still, I don't know how I'm going to pay this stuff off.

[325] So what happened to lose the job?

[326] Tell me about it.

[327] So I came into work and then they told me that they didn't need me. They, and then he just, basically just relieved me from my job.

[328] And then that was on Tuesday.

[329] So what were you, what were you doing?

[330] I was a manager at a travel stop.

[331] I was in charge like supervising employees doing paperwork, things like that.

[332] So they do need the job done.

[333] They fired you.

[334] Why'd they fire you?

[335] They told me it was because of performance, and they found somebody better suited for the job.

[336] Anything about that that you learn?

[337] What's your takeaway from that?

[338] To be honest, I don't even know.

[339] Um, you, you, you felt like you were performing.

[340] Yeah.

[341] And I, I, I just don't know what happened.

[342] Um, it was just confusing to me. Yeah.

[343] What were you making?

[344] I was making around 40 grand a year.

[345] How are your parents doing with you being there and job loss and everything?

[346] How's your relationship?

[347] They're, they're good for the most part.

[348] Um, it's just trying to find a, another job before I lose my car or anything like that so so you owe 24 on the car have you looked up what it's worth yeah the car is worth 18 the last time I checked on Kelly Bullock and who do you owe the money to who's the 24 with that it's um Kia finance company um so it's a high interest rate yeah what's your interest rate actually I want to say it's high it's probably Like, I think it's 8 % less on my check.

[349] This is a local finance company?

[350] I don't know.

[351] They have a branch near you?

[352] They do not.

[353] Okay.

[354] So you just bought this from a dealer, and they stuck you in this grummy loan.

[355] Yeah.

[356] Okay.

[357] Because you're a 19 -year -old, and they screwed you.

[358] Okay.

[359] And you bought a car you're going to buy it, and you know that, right?

[360] Yeah.

[361] Yeah.

[362] Yeah, okay.

[363] All right.

[364] Okay.

[365] So how's the job hunting?

[366] hunt going.

[367] I'm really not getting anywhere that I would have hoped.

[368] I, it just isn't going anywhere for me. I just don't know what to do.

[369] Okay.

[370] All right.

[371] Does Uber have a 21 -year limit?

[372] Yeah, I know for sure Uber does.

[373] Does DoorDash?

[374] No. Okay.

[375] I'll be dash.

[376] doors as soon as you get off the phone, dude.

[377] Might as well run the wheels off of his $24 ,000 car and go make you some money.

[378] I want you, I don't, listen, and listen, come Friday night and Saturday night, your butt's working.

[379] You're not partying.

[380] Okay.

[381] And period.

[382] You haven't got, you haven't any money to socialize, and you don't have any time to socialize because you're broken, you're calling me afraid, so you can't go hide that fear in a party.

[383] You got to go, you got to go get her done.

[384] You got to go leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home.

[385] You can do it.

[386] I know you can.

[387] And your performance this time is going to directly cause your income to go up.

[388] So I'm going to dash doors and I'm going to talk to three pizza places before nightfall today, the three neighborhood pizza places, regardless if they're a chain, a known franchise, or a local, and ask them if you can deliver pizzas for them.

[389] Today, I want you standing in their lobby.

[390] I don't want you on the phone.

[391] I don't want you on their website.

[392] I certainly don't want you texting or some stupid but email.

[393] I want you standing in the lobby with your beautiful smile and your hair combed and you go get some jobs.

[394] Okay?

[395] You can do that, can't you?

[396] I know I can do it.

[397] Yeah, I mean, you got three or four hours before they, before dinner time.

[398] And Logan, we just talked about this in the last segment about how it takes humility to step into something new.

[399] And I'll say this, Logan, I would think as a 19 -year -old guy, you went and got a salary job, 40 grand a year.

[400] You're kind of like, this is awesome.

[401] And then you're like, no, door -dashing and pizza delivery was not what I'm supposed to do.

[402] My next step is supposed to be even better than where I was at.

[403] But I think during this time, you're back to like four or five side hustles put together throughout the week and working seven days a week.

[404] Until you land the good job.

[405] Until you land the good job.

[406] I'm not saying that's right good point yeah so just keep applying but Logan this is going to be it's kind of a hit to the ego to be like I'm you know I'm delivering pizzas when I thought I was going to be having some corporate job or whatever you were thinking you're going to be doing so again I want you doing anything that's honorable to make money till you get a good job yeah yeah here's what happens okay let me let me let me tell you why I'm telling you to do this because when you're broke and scared and terrified, I can hear it in your voice.

[407] And so can everyone listening right now.

[408] And when you go into a job interview, you sound desperate.

[409] You walk desperate.

[410] You scream desperation, and they're not going to hire you.

[411] But if you've got cash stacked from DoorDash and Pizza, your car payment is there and you got $2 ,000 in the bank until you get into the job, now you swagger into the interview and your confidence is good, not cocky, but you're not, you're not screaming desperation and terror in the interview because an interviewer can smell this.

[412] You follow me?

[413] Yeah.

[414] And I'm trying to get that stink off of you so you can go win.

[415] And the way you do that, you get a little bit of margin between you and the wolf that's barking up your butt right now.

[416] you're getting your butt chewed off by that car payment thinking you're thinking I'm going to get repoed trying to keep from losing the car I heard you say it and I don't blame you I appreciate that fear that but let that fear be a motivator your first step is stack some cash to change the way you walk and talk in an interview and then your next step I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book Proximity Principle and the get clear and the get clear assessment good Rachel and we'll do that and I want you to take all of that stuff for your long -term career goals and I want you to read everything on Ken Coleman .com on his website about how to get and land a job and go get that and solve this and then learn from this process to never be in this situation again.

[417] Oh, and by the way, when we get to the other side of this, you need to have $6 ,000 so you can sell a stupid buck car and pay it off and get rid of it and get you a $5 ,000 car like a 19 year old should be driving that's broke or that anybody should be driving that's broke.

[418] This is The Ramsey Show.

[419] Are you working the baby steps?

[420] One of the smartest and most impactful changes you can make is to ditch your cash value life insurance plan if you have one and replace it with a term life policy.

[421] Listen, the only thing a cash value policy is good for is overcharging you for the life insurance and then paying you a crappy rate of return on your overpayment.

[422] Stop wasting your money and really focus on getting out of debt and growing your savings.

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[427] Even if you don't have a cash value policy, if you're one of the 70 % of people who have no life insurance or not enough, it's even more important to get this done.

[428] 356, 4282, or Xander .com.

[429] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host.

[430] I have been in a position financially where I was terrified, and I did not know what the next thing to do was.

[431] And that's how we ended up doing this show, just to help people were in that situation, whether they're 19 or whether they're 59.

[432] I will tell you the thing that I was telling that last caller our 19 -year -old friend there and that when you encounter fear, not if you encounter fear, but when you encounter fear on something, I guess there's several possible reactions, but two come to mind right now.

[433] One is you go into fight or flight.

[434] Right?

[435] You either are going to attack and do something active or you're going to freeze like a deer in the headlights.

[436] And for those of you have heard the saying deer in the headlights, we live in Tennessee literally when a deer is caught in the headlights, they freeze.

[437] And the stupid animal will stand there and destroy your car.

[438] And their life.

[439] And their life in the process.

[440] Yeah.

[441] And so, by the way, Bambi will total a car.

[442] I'm just saying, because they freeze.

[443] So there's a three things.

[444] Fight, flight, and freeze.

[445] Well, flight is freeze.

[446] I mean, it's the same category.

[447] I mean, it's forward or back.

[448] So what I have discovered, though, especially on financial things, like losing your job as an example, or just waking up one day and going, oh, we're about to be repoed because we're so freaking out of control here, or we're about to lose our home, or we're going to retire and have to eat Alpo, or whatever it is you discover that's on your doorstep that's scary.

[449] There's the P. Watt, P. Wadden out of you.

[450] So if you're in that situation, I have always found that the best reaction is not flight and not freeze, it is attack.

[451] And everyone wants to get all analytical while you're in the middle of this.

[452] And that's a form of freezing.

[453] And George Patton said it beautifully.

[454] He said, a good plan violently executed now is better than a person.

[455] plan executed next week.

[456] So when you're in that situation, square your shoulders, lean into it, and get after it.

[457] Even if what you're doing is not perfect, like you're doing things you don't want to do in terms of I don't want to be in a career where I'm door dashing for the, you know, when I'm 35 years old, starting at 19, right?

[458] You know, that's something you don't want to do.

[459] But I've done a whole lot of things in the name of activity.

[460] Because activity solves these things more than the freeze does or the flight.

[461] You can't run away from it.

[462] It'll chase you down.

[463] And you can't freeze and stand in the road.

[464] You'll get run over.

[465] So you've got to go into attack mode, even if the plan is imperfect.

[466] And trust me, you're terrified.

[467] Your plan will be imperfect.

[468] But the other two are a death nail.

[469] You've got to get it.

[470] You've got to lean into it and get it.

[471] And when you look back later, that sheer.

[472] activity will change your neuro pathways.

[473] It will change your attitude.

[474] It will change your spirit.

[475] I'm feeling blue and depressed.

[476] One answer for that, not the answer.

[477] It's not a psychological Dr. John Deloney might not agree.

[478] But one answer for that is activity.

[479] Exercise is always a company with solving depression.

[480] Yeah, that's what I'm going to say.

[481] That's why they say, like, if there's major anxiety, go for a walk, like go out.

[482] So like move your body.

[483] No, I think that that is sunshine.

[484] Yeah.

[485] I mean, there's something to it.

[486] But from the financial aspect, that is just go get a job.

[487] The version of the 19 year old.

[488] Do something.

[489] Do something sitting and saying, oh, this is bad.

[490] I don't know what happened.

[491] You're just, you're standing like the deer in the headlights then.

[492] And so, and it's, it's not because someone has a lack of character.

[493] It's because we, we, we, uh, you're paralyzed.

[494] Well, fear, fear, you're going to deal with the fear.

[495] You just got to decide on purpose how to.

[496] to deal with is what I'm suggesting because it's going to come you're going to be in those situations Nick is with us in Knoxville hi Nick how are you hey good how are you Dave better than I deserve what's up well I'm wondering if it was the right time to purchase a home I am on baby step four currently debt free after being in almost $50 ,000 a debt so on the right track there but I'm not sure if it was the right decision to purchase the home right Right time in what regard, in the economy or in your life?

[497] In my life.

[498] And was it or is it?

[499] I mean, did you already purchase it?

[500] I did purchase it, yes.

[501] You did, okay.

[502] You're in Baby Step 4, so you're debt -free and you have your emergency fund in place.

[503] That is the time we would tell you to do it in terms of baby -step.

[504] Was it too much?

[505] Are you stressed about the payment?

[506] Is that why you're calling, or you're just curious?

[507] Um, I'm kind of wondering if it's, uh, the amount that I owe.

[508] Um, and it freaks me out a little bit.

[509] I've never been in this much of debt.

[510] Um, uh, the mortgage is $236 ,000.

[511] I make about 90 a year.

[512] Um, I'm based salary and commission.

[513] So that's roughly what I'll make this year.

[514] Uh, single?

[515] And I sold, I sold some land that worth about $120 ,000.

[516] Um, so I could use that as a down payment.

[517] So your mortgage is $2 .30 or your purchase price was $2 .30?

[518] Mortgage is $2 .30.

[519] I put down $60.

[520] $60.

[521] What did you do with the rest of it?

[522] I haven't saved away right now.

[523] I'll have to pay taxes on some of it because it was inheritance.

[524] And you have to have an emergency fund?

[525] Correct.

[526] Okay.

[527] And that used up the other $60.

[528] Correct.

[529] Okay.

[530] I got you.

[531] Okay.

[532] That makes sense.

[533] How old are you?

[534] And then $30 and save it.

[535] I'm 24.

[536] Okay.

[537] I don't hear a single thing in this that sounds bad.

[538] How much is your payments compared to your income?

[539] My payment is going to be 1660.

[540] I'm just wondering, I took out a 30 year.

[541] I know you guys recommend a 15 year, but I was...

[542] I would pay it off then as soon as you can pay it off.

[543] I wouldn't refinance it just to do that.

[544] But you're just...

[545] It's your 24.

[546] It's the first time you've done this to the first time you do anything of scale or size.

[547] You feel the weight of it.

[548] That's normal.

[549] You should.

[550] That means you're wise.

[551] If you didn't feel a little bit of pinch when you do something.

[552] The first time you pick up 300 pounds, you would feel it, right?

[553] You picked up 230 pounds.

[554] You feel it.

[555] 231 pounds, right?

[556] And you, you know, and so that just means you're wise.

[557] but the numbers that you're giving us are all fine and the order that you did everything are fine.

[558] We would have done a 15, you're right, but I would just challenge you to get to paying on it.

[559] Let's pay it off in seven or eight years.

[560] You can probably do that because you're that guy.

[561] Yes, sir.

[562] I'm also wondering, at least for a year, I'm going to have a friend rent off me who's looking for a spot.

[563] So I think that'll help out with the mortgage, but I wasn't sure if that'd be a good plan also moving forward to help pay it off faster.

[564] Yeah, I mean, if you're single.

[565] Anything you can tolerate.

[566] You want to.

[567] Yeah.

[568] But Nick, I think you're, you're, I mean, you're okay, though.

[569] What is it?

[570] I'm still not.

[571] If you called us and asked, should you do this, everything you said follows the guidelines and we would have said, Nick, by the house.

[572] Only we would have put you on a 15.

[573] But other than that, everything else lines up.

[574] I don't hear anything here to be concerned about.

[575] Is there something I'm missing?

[576] No, I'm just making.

[577] making sure that that follows with yeah no it's great and and Nick and honestly because we tell people if they're in a position go ahead and get in because housing pricing house prices continue to go up we have no clue what's going to happen with interest rates and everything but like it's to the point that if you have the money and you're able to buy now go ahead and get in now because it's going to be more expensive next year and the next year and the next year and there's not a bubble there's not a crash coming I mean none of that's happening so if you have the ability to to get in.

[578] Go ahead because it's terrible.

[579] I mean, like just, I mean, we were looking at numbers last week and just, I mean, from, you know, salary, you know, for your generation, Gen Z, this is the toughest time home buying has been in 50 or 60 years.

[580] I mean, it's tough right now.

[581] It's not going to be forever, but right the second is tough.

[582] High prices and pulled it off.

[583] Salaries are not, income is not kept up with it.

[584] So, it is.

[585] If you want to know more about this, folks, you can go to ramsysolutions .com slash real estate or if you need to get a good agent in your corner go to ramsysolutions .com slash agent to help you buy and they'll if you if they're ramsay trusted they'll make sure you're doing it the way we teach they're not going to assist you in doing something stupid if they're if they're ramsay trusted agents so go to ramsysolutions .com slash agent you did good nick live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[586] Rachel Cruz is Ramsey Personality, multiple number one bestselling author, co -host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, and my daughter is my co -host today.

[587] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[588] Samantha in Vegas starts this hour off.

[589] Hey, Samantha, what's up?

[590] hi how are you doing better than i deserve what's up in your world well i called in because i'm just tired of toiling in debt i have been a single mother of six and my youngest is now 21 you got them out you did it mom you did it i got them out did they all survive way to go into the next bedroom no they all just do really well they all just do really well very well.

[591] However, except for the youngest one, he's still finding his way.

[592] But, you know, during the course of this, I find myself in close to $100 ,000 in debt.

[593] I am still paying my youngest car note.

[594] I'm paying one of my children's college debt still.

[595] She graduated NYU.

[596] So I have a little bit of debt there.

[597] And I'm back in college.

[598] So I just don't even know where to start to attack.

[599] these bills with me already from paycheck to paycheck.

[600] Why is a 21 -year -old need his mommy to pay his car payment?

[601] Because it's in mommy's name, and he's not working yet.

[602] Well, he was working, but they just laid him off.

[603] So I bought it for him as a graduation gift.

[604] You bought him a car payment.

[605] Okay.

[606] How much do you owe on your car?

[607] I owe now about $12 ,000.

[608] What do you owe on his?

[609] Oh, on my car.

[610] owe nothing on his 12 ,000.

[611] Oh, I see.

[612] Okay.

[613] So what's the other $88 ,000 in debt?

[614] NYU?

[615] Yeah, it's NYU.

[616] And then, of course, credit cards.

[617] How much is credit cards?

[618] Oh, gosh.

[619] Credit cards is around three or $4 ,000.

[620] The rest is NYU.

[621] So you got $84 ,000 for one kid?

[622] Yes.

[623] Wow.

[624] Yeah.

[625] Was it a parent plus loan?

[626] Samantha, is it in your name or is in her name?

[627] It's a parent plus loan.

[628] And she does work for, I mean, she's in a situation where her loans can be forgiven, you know, after so long.

[629] I'm not.

[630] Parent Plus, you're on the hook for.

[631] Nope.

[632] You got to pay it.

[633] Yeah.

[634] So what do you make?

[635] Well, I make just under 100, but with bonuses, I make about 110, 115 a year.

[636] What do you do?

[637] I work in health care.

[638] What are you studying?

[639] I am studying to get a, my bachelor, so I can move into a, um, higher position in health care into a director's role.

[640] And what are you paying for that?

[641] You know, the company does reimbursement, and I'm doing Sophia credit, so that's really, I'm not really paying for that.

[642] Just taking up time.

[643] That's good.

[644] Just opportunity.

[645] Very wise.

[646] Good for you.

[647] How long is the program, Samantha?

[648] Oh, gosh, if I keep doing the Sophia credit, I'll be done by mid -next year.

[649] Okay.

[650] That's great.

[651] Excellent.

[652] Yeah, I'm trying to fast track that.

[653] And then what will you make if you're, You're at about 110 with bonuses for the new position.

[654] What are you expecting?

[655] Well, with this company, you know, it'll probably start around 1, 120 without bonus, probably 1, 130, 140 with.

[656] Okay.

[657] Good.

[658] Well, you're making progress.

[659] Good for you.

[660] How old are you?

[661] 55?

[662] You're good.

[663] I'm 53.

[664] I'll be 54.

[665] Well, I mean, you told me your story.

[666] Your story leads to that.

[667] Okay.

[668] Good.

[669] Good.

[670] Okay.

[671] Well, you're a warrior prince.

[672] I mean, you fought through raising six kids by yourself.

[673] You're amazing.

[674] You can fight through a lousy $100 grand in debt.

[675] You could do it.

[676] Okay.

[677] Are you ready?

[678] Are you ready to get after it?

[679] Because, you know, you're used to fighting battles, and I'm getting ready to put you on the front line again.

[680] Draw your sword.

[681] You're ready to go?

[682] I am so ready.

[683] I got my pin and pad, and I am so 100 % ready.

[684] I'm tired.

[685] I mean, the first thing I would do, Samantha, is I'd cut up your credit cards today.

[686] I'd get rid of them.

[687] And I would force yourself to live on less than you make with the income you have and that's going to include these debt payments staying current but it's going to force probably a different lifestyle to a degree i know you're i know you're not out there all boozy and glamorous and stuff but i mean it's going to be like hey i'm going to be eating in more i'm going to be cutting it out i'm going to be cutting subscriptions extras like it's going to be putting you on a tight budget living below your means without credit cards because the credit cards have become the slippery slope for you they're kind of your your safety net and I want Samantha to be my safety net.

[688] No life.

[689] And then I have, I mean, and then honestly, Samantha, the car loan for the sun.

[690] And that's going to be a really hard conversation, but it's, but it is a, hey, we're either transferring the loan in your name, son, or I don't even know, I wouldn't even do that.

[691] I think I would just sell it.

[692] I mean, I would get to a point where you're like.

[693] No, no, I say, listen, honey, you got, you got 90 days to get your button gear with this car and Uber eats and everything else and pay it off because otherwise I know.

[694] need to sell it because I'm getting out of debt.

[695] Okay, that was my question.

[696] Give him a little time to pay, come up with $12 ,000.

[697] And if he'll work 24 -7 for about, between now and Christmas, he can pay that car off and then keep it.

[698] How easy is it transferred the time?

[699] I mean, he'll have to pay it off, though.

[700] But if he gets behind on payments.

[701] If he gets behind on payments, he's done.

[702] It's done instantly.

[703] Right, right, right.

[704] He's either paying the payments starting today, ready, set go, or we're selling the car.

[705] And he's going to pay it off and get it out of your name because we're getting you out of debt because this is a this is a uh at best a contingent liability meaning you have to pay it if he doesn't uh at worst it's just straight up you owe the money on the car so rachel's right about that but what i want you do is get on the every dollar app we're going to put you into financial peace university i know you're already in class but i'm going to put you in another one and show you and teach you how to handle money properly i'm going to pay for it because i think you're cool oh i think a woman that can raise six kids as a single moms are freaking hero And so I want you to go win.

[706] It's time for you to go win for you.

[707] But that's no eating out, no vacations, no whining, no life until we get this stupid NYU thing off the books.

[708] We're not waiting around on her to work a stupid, horrible, backwoods job so she can maybe get forgiveness that doesn't come through most of the time on the loan.

[709] Instead, I want you just pay it off fast.

[710] I want this loan.

[711] All these loans gone in two years.

[712] Oh, wow.

[713] Okay.

[714] Oh, that would be great.

[715] Yeah.

[716] Well, I'm talking about $4 ,000 a month.

[717] Goop.

[718] Yeah.

[719] Okay.

[720] Yeah.

[721] That gets you out of debt in two years.

[722] And that means you have no life.

[723] You're working all the time.

[724] And you're eating tuna fish sandwiches at work.

[725] Hello?

[726] And if there's extra.

[727] By the way, I hate tuna fish.

[728] Yeah.

[729] Well, I'm in the doctor's lounge.

[730] I used to eat it when I was broke.

[731] And when I smell tuna fish, I smell broke.

[732] I can't stand it.

[733] Samantha, is there a lot of opportunity to pick up overtime, a lot of health care in that industry?

[734] We find a lot of people are able to get some great overtime opportunities, is there?

[735] Well, I'm salaried, and, you know, I'm a department head, and then the patient access care department.

[736] So it is a little different.

[737] Okay.

[738] Is there anything you can think of as a side hustle while you're going to school that is possible?

[739] I have truly thought that up, and I really don't.

[740] The only thing I have is, like, you know, a brief or something, and I can't really, you know, I can't do that.

[741] You've got to get through school.

[742] I want you to get through school.

[743] I think that's important because that's a better future play.

[744] But I don't know.

[745] I think you can do this if a boy child takes care of his own car and you lean into this and you chop up the credit cards like Rachel said and we get you on every dollar budget.

[746] I think you can do this in about two years.

[747] I really do.

[748] And then you're going to be up another 40 grand and salary that can be thrown to this next year when you get your new position.

[749] That's going to help.

[750] That's going to help you do it even faster.

[751] Hang on.

[752] Christian's going to pick up and we'll get you signed up for a financial.

[753] H .O. Peace University.

[754] We'll show you how to do this, kid.

[755] It's what we do.

[756] This is the Ramsey show.

[757] So here's a quick math refresher.

[758] There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money.

[759] So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system.

[760] NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform.

[761] So join the more than 37 ,000 smart businesses like Ramsey solutions that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite.

[762] And right now, you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[763] That's netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[764] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[765] Thank you for joining us.

[766] Chris is in Bozeman, Montana.

[767] Hi, Chris.

[768] How are you?

[769] Good, Dave.

[770] Thanks for taking my call.

[771] Sure, man. What's up?

[772] So I'm going through a job transition right now, and I'm hoping I'm not shooting myself in the foot.

[773] I work for a company down in California, and I live obviously remote.

[774] I'm taking a slightly lower paying position to try and improve my quality of life.

[775] You work remote.

[776] Well, I work remote, and if I'm not remote, I'm traveling all around the country.

[777] So where's your quality of life going?

[778] How often are you traveling?

[779] It depends.

[780] It's kind of sporadic.

[781] I never know when I'm traveling.

[782] The most recent request, they called me at 10 .30 p .m. on a Wednesday and wanted me to fly out the next morning.

[783] Wednesday night.

[784] Is that normal?

[785] No, that's not typical.

[786] Okay, so that's an exception.

[787] What's the average month that's killing you look like?

[788] well again it's fratic i had six months in a row where i was gone week like every other week i was gone for a week so i was home for a week traveling for a week home for a week traveling for a week okay and then now i've been sitting at home so what were you making probably three uh 70 salary plus benefits and what are you making now i'll be making 30 an hour with the opportunity for overtime but no benefits what's that translate to six i'm sorry 60 base.

[789] I think it's 60 base.

[790] 60?

[791] So you're going to take a $10 ,000 pay cut, but with OT possibility and loss of benefit.

[792] Yep.

[793] And you're at home, and it's a 40 -hour gig?

[794] When I'm home, it's 40 hours when I'm traveling.

[795] Oh, it's now travel?

[796] The new one's got travel?

[797] The new one's not traveling local, home every night with my life.

[798] Okay, that's what I said.

[799] Yeah, you're taking a 10 -K pay cut.

[800] You're coming off the road.

[801] Yeah, yeah, but my travel time, like if I'm traveling, that's a 60 -year.

[802] hour a week sometimes, or typically.

[803] Was?

[804] You know, yeah, but I don't get paid for that overtime.

[805] So this new overtime, if I have to work a 50, 55.

[806] I got you, you'll get paid for it.

[807] I see, I see what you're saying.

[808] Does the new job include travel?

[809] No. No, it will.

[810] I mean, I have to drive around my local town.

[811] No, yeah, he's saying with the 70s travel.

[812] I'm trying to get a handle on it.

[813] All right, so, um, I was just can, okay, anyway, um, so what's your question is, did you goof up taking that?

[814] yeah am i making a bad financial decision because i do have only if it doesn't take you where you want to be when you're 10 years older how old are you now 33 okay is the 43 year old mad at the 33 year old you not from what i can see okay all right then you're fine so i don't want you to take a permanent step back but taking a step back to get your life under control so that you can step forward in other words it does the new position and have some upward mobility, some things you can do with it over the next decade.

[815] Does it take you where you want to go?

[816] But if you're taking a job, you're just going to be stuck in, and you're spinning your wheels, and you're going to make less, and you're going to make less, and you're going to make less, then, yeah, I would have taken another job.

[817] I don't necessarily think you have to stay with that old job.

[818] It was a bad gig for you.

[819] But, you know, I don't hear anything here that's devastatingly bad.

[820] If you took a pay cut in half, I would say you really screwed up, but, you know.

[821] Yeah, and his point, too, was the 70K included weeks of travel and you don't get paid for those extra, you know, so like even if he picked up some OT to get it.

[822] If he worked the same number of hours at the new gig, it'd make 70.

[823] That's right, or more, yep, that's right, that's right.

[824] If they'll give him the OT, but I don't know if they will or not.

[825] Yeah.

[826] And especially if you're in a position where you guys can live on that and you're not putting your family in a financial dire straight, like I just know for our scenes in a life, like, Yeah, if you have the ability to not be gone for a week, if you're married with kids, that's real nice, real nice.

[827] You know, so that's fair for sure.

[828] Now, in general, for folks out there, sometimes when people say work -life balance, you mean all kinds of different things, all right?

[829] And sometimes people, I need to leave this job that's toxic or I need to leave this job that is horrible.

[830] I'm really not referring to Chris at all.

[831] I'm just referring to the subject.

[832] Then, you know, and the only way I can do that is to make less.

[833] Well, I would challenge that, okay?

[834] There's two times that people come to us in the last 30 years, and they come to us every week, every week with these two times.

[835] I want a better quality of life, and so I'm going to change jobs and make less, number one, which he's not really making any less, probably.

[836] but the other time they come to us is I lost a job and the new job I'm going to get that I don't even know what it is they assume is going to be less both of those are wrong answers if you have answer A a job that's miserable answer B a job that makes less you have not enough answers yet you need C none of the above remember taking multiple choice see none of the above and none of the above means i want a job that's not miserable or that is a new job because i lost my old job that pays more and guess what you won't find that if you don't believe it and aren't looking for it people have a negative assumption immediately that in order to be happy i have to make less well let me help you you're happier if you make more and in order to get a new job is terrible what hold on unless the new job is terrible you don't feel happier if you make more in your situation I know but this idea that the only way to be happy is equated with working for a non -profit and I make less money than I've ever made my life no no but I do think there's an assumption that if you've been in a company and you continue to get raises within internally and then you step outside that it could be harder to find the same equal opportunity.

[837] Not if you, not if you earned those raises because you're qualified to run that position that you're doing.

[838] Yes, yes.

[839] Well, and I would say, if you're overpaid because you got promoted beyond your competence, then that would be true.

[840] And I will say out in the marketplace to find the job that pays more is out there.

[841] Like, we see that a lot, you know, all the time.

[842] You're getting paid 20 grand more.

[843] I mean, like it's, it is wild.

[844] We see that even from internal.

[845] And we've had people leave here because they get paid 30 grand more.

[846] I'm like, hey, I'll help you back.

[847] That's great.

[848] That's awesome.

[849] Happy for you.

[850] So, yeah, there are, so to your point, though, you don't equate, okay, I'm going to have a better situation because of the toxic work environment I in or the schedule that I hate that I'm in, I can find a job that I love and enjoy, and I can make the same or more.

[851] And that I'm passionate about and good at, you know, all of those things, and make more.

[852] Right.

[853] So this, I, but, but the human nature is to assume the negative.

[854] Yeah, yeah.

[855] And I'm saying push back against that as an act of your will and assume the positive.

[856] Good stuff.

[857] All right, Renee is in St. Petersburg.

[858] Hi, Renee.

[859] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[860] Hi, Dave.

[861] Hi, Rachel.

[862] Thank you so much for taking a call.

[863] Sure.

[864] What's up?

[865] I just have a quick question.

[866] I was wondering, I'm on babysat to paying off my car, and now the engine needs to be replaced, and it's an $11 ,000 repair.

[867] So we have $1 ,000 in emergency funds.

[868] So I'm wondering what I should do.

[869] Like, should I take out a personal loan to get the car sick?

[870] That car is gone.

[871] How much is it worth?

[872] Well, with the engine needing to be replaced, it's worth $5 ,000, and I owe $20 ,000 on it.

[873] If it had a new engine, it would be worth $15 ,000.

[874] Wow.

[875] Oh, but if it was fixed, it'd be worth $15.

[876] Okay.

[877] Yeah.

[878] Are you single?

[879] No. I'm married.

[880] All right.

[881] The two of you need to sit down and understand that there's lots of places to buy car engines, and the car dealer is the worst one.

[882] $11 ,000 for an engine?

[883] What the flip are you doing?

[884] Buy a NASCAR?

[885] No, you're broke.

[886] You're going to a junkyard and get a used engine that has 20 ,000 miles on it.

[887] And the car got totaled.

[888] And you're going to have some guy under a tree put it in out back of his house.

[889] That's called a shade tree mechanic, by the way.

[890] And it's cheap.

[891] And that's how you do it.

[892] No, and that's going to cost you three or four grand, and you're going to save up money and do that real fast.

[893] You know, $11 ,000?

[894] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't think they don't even call them junkyards anymore.

[895] They call them salvage yards.

[896] So you call a salvage yard and just say I need an engine.

[897] I'm starting, and they've got, it's all computerized now.

[898] They'll shop all over the nation.

[899] There you go, really.

[900] They'll have you a nation.

[901] I'll have an engine for a guy under a tree.

[902] A little on that.

[903] Well, that's called, it's a shade tree.

[904] mechanic.

[905] It's an old saying.

[906] Did you all heard of it?

[907] Anyone out there?

[908] Oh, my gosh.

[909] Okay.

[910] Thank you.

[911] Thank you.

[912] This is the Ramsey Show.

[913] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality.

[914] My daughter is my co -host today.

[915] Our question of the day comes from Brandon in Maryland.

[916] He says, I've had several friends whose parents took out our parent plus loans and had them go sideways once they graduated.

[917] What's your stance on them?

[918] Obviously, they're a bad idea.

[919] but if they were taken out, whose responsibility should it be to pay them once they come due?

[920] Well, I mean, legally, it's the parents' name on the bill.

[921] And so, I mean, that's from like a legal perspective, it's the parents.

[922] I mean, what's frustrating about this whole thing, though, is that, and we've heard this multiple times, is that, you know, the student agrees with the parent that they'll pay it, you know, but the parent takes out the parent plus loan, and the student fails to tell their new fiance and then you get married and four years later doesn't get a job and dad go you remember that time you said you were going to pay this loan and they go now I didn't yeah that's what happened we hear that all the time don't we well that or the student didn't pay and then the parents like well I guess I have to pay it and then they're frustrated I mean like it's just it ends up being this like tangled mess relationally but whose responsibility once it comes due whoever promised to pay it morally If the kid promised to pay it, then they should go back and pay it.

[923] They're not legally liable.

[924] So if you said, mom and dad, if you take this loan out so I can go to the college of my dreams, and mom and dad are stupid enough to go do that, then they sign the note.

[925] They're legally liable, but you made a promise to them to pay it.

[926] That's you keeping your word.

[927] You go pay it.

[928] Okay.

[929] Mom and dad took out the loan and nobody else.

[930] ever said anything to nobody and then mom and dad come back later and go you need to pay for your college no i don't i didn't tell you i'd pay it and i'm not going to pay it so there's no moral contract and mom and dad are up a creek bottom line is you can avoid all this by staying away from the stupidity completely no student loans of any kind are good in no freaking circumstances parent plus loans are stupid.

[931] That'll help you.

[932] Yeah.

[933] There you go.

[934] It's hilarious to me that when people are stupid about education.

[935] That's an oxymoron, isn't it?

[936] We've lost our stupid minds on the subject of education.

[937] I will say, do you feel like in the most, in recent years, in the last two years or so since COVID?

[938] I feel like people have woken up to this though.

[939] I think that there are, students.

[940] Yes.

[941] I think that there has been a backlash against just collegiate in general.

[942] Like just I mean, I think people are seeing...

[943] Well, higher education has gotten a backlash in general.

[944] Yeah, I just think that there's just been a...

[945] And some of it was, as they wanted to charge you the same amount while they wouldn't let you come to campus.

[946] Yep.

[947] And made you work, made you study remote and they want to charge the same amount.

[948] And everybody went, well, listen, I was already getting ripped off.

[949] And this is really screwing me. I don't think so.

[950] So, but I mean, I think it's waking up.

[951] And I hope that borrowed future, you know, our documentary that was award winning and highly viewed, I had something to do with it.

[952] If you haven't watched that, you can watch it on YouTube.

[953] free and many other streaming services as well but it'll blow your mind how crooked and backward this whole student loan thing is and the politicians you guys you congresspeople somebody ought to just smack one of you y 'all are just it's unbelievable the student loans are horrible we need to forgive them while we continue to make them that's so intellectually dishonest if they suck and they hurt people why don't you stop it hello the poor little victims of the student loan is and you keep making them and you're the villain congress it's your fault if you just stop it nobody would have student loans that'd be an awesome thing and the universities would probably lower tuition because nobody's going to be getting it because people couldn't afford to pay it this the demand people would wake up and go wait a minute this is like real money in my hand that I earned I'm going to make value choices about what I study.

[954] I'm not going to study left -handed puppetry and pay somebody $85 ,000 a semester for that and call it an Ivy League education.

[955] And I'm furthering my thought patterns.

[956] Oh, bull crap.

[957] You're just shoveling money out.

[958] And by the way, it was my money because I'm the taxpayer and now you're not paying it because you've got a degree that's worthless and you're a barista.

[959] And so that's what happens.

[960] It's just the whole stupid thing.

[961] thing is a scam.

[962] And so higher education is to blame.

[963] The Congress is to blame weak parents that won't tell their spoiled freaking children know are to blame everybody in this thing.

[964] And you used to say it a thousand years ago before we had borrowed, before we had borrowed future and all of it out, you said, we don't have a student loan problem.

[965] We have a parenting problem.

[966] Because you talk to these college students, to your point that graduated at 21 years old with 120 grand in debt to not an Ivy League.

[967] I mean, they're charging insane money now, and they want to go and be a missionary or do something, you know, where they're not making a ton, but they got all of this debt.

[968] And I'm like, well, how did your parents direct you?

[969] Well, they didn't talk to me. And you're like, oh my gosh, like an 18 -year -old is sitting here making a decision that's going to affect them for the next decade of their life.

[970] And a parent didn't step in and at least have the conversation.

[971] Like, nothing is being said.

[972] So.

[973] Or we get a call like, my daughter told me she's going to this school that we can't afford so we're going to have to take out student loans see there's the problem because um i love rachel but when rachel was 18 and we were spending my money she didn't tell me nothing i told her some stuff but she didn't tell me anything that's not how this works that's backwards so uh there wasn't much dialogue no there wasn't it's like you're going to go to this school and i'll pay for it that's pretty much how it went all three of them went to the same school the dialogue was if you take all these classes you graduate in four years so take the freaking classes yeah that's fair because yeah and i did that was the dialogue and to be transparent you guys paid for our education but we had to stay in state yep we had to take in state tuition and we had to graduate in four years if you went four and a half you had to freaking behave and if you did yeah and if you went out of state you don't get to go off the reservation and get my money that's not how it works i'm not going to support your freaking insanity that somebody communist professor told you to engage it.

[974] I'm not going to do it, you know.

[975] I went partying in my head.

[976] I went partying in college if you went off the reservation.

[977] That meant partying, not.

[978] Well, I'm talking about losing your freaking mind and, you know, I'm going to, you're confused what you're there for.

[979] You're there to take these classes to get this degree.

[980] And if you take these classes and pass them, it's magical.

[981] You graduate in four years.

[982] And the, uh, we go, we're sitting in the orientation at the University of Freaking Tennessee, where the kids went and I went, and they said very proudly, we have a 57 % graduation rate.

[983] Of the people that are sitting in this room, 57 % are going to graduate.

[984] And I'm thinking to myself, I almost raised my hand and said, if they make a 57 in class, don't you give them an F?

[985] You wouldn't be bragging about that.

[986] That's called failure.

[987] Oh, and then they pipe up and say, and only 20 % of the ones that do graduate will do it in four years.

[988] And I wrote across my oldest daughter's little orientation packet.

[989] So have a freaking plan in Black Magic Marker while this idiot was on stage telling us this.

[990] I mean, how are you bragging about a 57 % graduation rate?

[991] That's failure.

[992] And this is another lesson that you take out loans and you may not even get the degree and you're paying money back for a degree you never received either.

[993] You never heard.

[994] It never hurts.

[995] It never hurts.

[996] Yeah.

[997] Apparently, you don't get the degree.

[998] Oh, well, Brandon from Maryland, question of the day.

[999] Hope that segment that was for you.

[1000] Well, I mean, really.

[1001] I know, I know.

[1002] It's hard.

[1003] You can go to college debt -free.

[1004] You choose a school that is reasonably priced.

[1005] It's typically in an in -state school.

[1006] Yeah, but honestly.

[1007] $12 ,000 a year.

[1008] I'll put your little butt in a state school right now.

[1009] 14.

[1010] I mean, community college, it's getting worse and worse.

[1011] It's worse and worse.

[1012] It is.

[1013] Okay, go, and you can go, it's not going to be the fun.

[1014] I mean, for free in most states, you can go to community college for two years.

[1015] Get your prereqs done.

[1016] Yes, I mean, there's a plan to go about it.

[1017] And you're not the most glamorous.

[1018] You're not studying anything that matters in the first two years anyway, usually.

[1019] Yep, yep.

[1020] So there is a plan, and it probably doesn't look like the shiny plan that you always thought of college.

[1021] And here's an idea.

[1022] Get a degree.

[1023] It'll help you get a job.

[1024] Whoa.

[1025] That was insightful.

[1026] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1027] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1028] Thank you for joining us, America.

[1029] The best way to make the most of your money is by telling it what to do, creating and sticking to a monthly plan known as a budget, the dreaded B word.

[1030] Every dollar needs a name.

[1031] Every dollar needs a mission.

[1032] Every dollar needs an assignment.

[1033] So we named the world's best budgeting app every dollar.

[1034] It's the every dollar budgeting app.

[1035] Tens of millions of people have downloaded.

[1036] and are using the app.

[1037] You can keep a pulse on your spending, make progress on your money goals, tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[1038] Pretty amazing, guys.

[1039] Download the Every Dollar app for free in the app store or Google Play or even at Everydollar .com.

[1040] Free.

[1041] Jarrett is in Indianapolis.

[1042] Hi, Jarrett.

[1043] How are you?

[1044] I'm doing good.

[1045] How about you, Dave?

[1046] Better than I deserve.

[1047] What's up?

[1048] I just want to give a quick shout out to Mr. Haney.

[1049] He put me on the Dave Rancy show seven years ago in high school, so I just want to give a quick shout to him.

[1050] He's been amazing, and he's the reason I know you, man. He's awesome.

[1051] Love it.

[1052] Love a good high school teacher.

[1053] Good stuff, man. How can we help today?

[1054] Yeah, so my question kind of comes more long -term than short -term.

[1055] So me and my wife were kind of thinking about buying the house, like whenever we kind of get settled in with the economy and everything, and we're just trying to think about.

[1056] about it long term because she wants to be a stay -at -home mom, which obviously would take away her income.

[1057] And we've talked about it.

[1058] She would be open to doing a part -time job, but probably not full -time, you know, with the kids and everything.

[1059] So we were just curious on, like, how do we save up for a down payment on the house whenever, like, that down payment, like, it would be saving with two incomes and then we'd go down to one once we move in.

[1060] So I'm just trying to avoid being house for, honestly.

[1061] Yeah, I mean, I would just do the math that, I would do the math on one income versus two.

[1062] You could save up the down payment pretty fast with two incomes, but once you guys move in and you want to go down to one, I would make sure the formula worked with that one income.

[1063] Do you guys have kids now?

[1064] No, no. It's like very long term.

[1065] We're just trying to plan ahead as much as we can so that when that moment comes, we're like, you know, we're ready for it.

[1066] Yeah, so Rachel's right.

[1067] Run your house payment on the remaining income after she comes home, being no more than a fourth of your take -home pay on a 15 -year.

[1068] you're fixed.

[1069] But I wouldn't do that now.

[1070] I mean, you guys don't do that today, but when you're doing the purchase.

[1071] But you don't have kids right now.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] And so, you know, and we don't know what you're going to be making.

[1074] Yeah, that's what I was going to say too.

[1075] So it's not what you make now.

[1076] So right now your job is stacked cash.

[1077] Because here's the other thing, the more down payment you put down, the bigger a house you can buy with that exact mortgage.

[1078] Let's say that at a fourth of your take -home pay, you can afford $250 ,000.

[1079] on a 15 year at your then income, whatever you're making at that time, and she comes home with and stays home, okay?

[1080] Then, you know, obviously $250 ,000 is the loan amount, but if you had $100 ,000 saved, that means you're at $350 ,000.

[1081] If you've got $200 ,000 saved, you're at $450 ,000.

[1082] And so the bigger the down payment, the bigger the house.

[1083] Or the bigger, you know, that you put down on the house, so the less the payment a month.

[1084] Or you take out less of a payment than the formula allows.

[1085] But Rachel's right.

[1086] you just need to be doing for today your job stack cash and then just be cognizant when the purchase time comes to run the formula based on the remaining income because if you run the formula based on a fourth of your take -home pay with her income and then she comes home you are going to be house poor that's going to strap you and that's not going to work for you Travis is in buffalo hey Travis what's up how you doing better than I deserve sir how can I help Well, I was calling basically because, you know, I've heard it, said, you know, a lot of times, basically, in summation, that your number one wealth -building tool is your income.

[1087] I'll say it all the time.

[1088] Right.

[1089] Now, for the person like myself, I'm on the lower end of the income ladder.

[1090] I'm bringing about $40 ,000 a year or so, and I've been paying attention to what you've been saying.

[1091] And, excuse me. and I was thinking like you talk about mutual funds in investing and I have limited to no knowledge so I was wondering how somebody maybe in my position could start to build towards retirement.

[1092] Okay.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] Well, I can say this first and foremost.

[1095] I think the phrase, and you correct me because you say it, but the idea that your income is your largest wealth -spending tool because your income, Travis, the reason we say that is because if you use your money for you, meaning for your investments, you're going to be earning interest for you versus if you have two car payments and a student loan payment and all these payments, debt, and your income is going to those things and then interest on top of that paying for the bank, you're making the bank wealthy versus making you wealthy, if that makes sense.

[1096] So I think it's less about the exact number of your income.

[1097] And it's more that philosophy of, hey, I'm going to use my money, regardless of income for me and making myself wealthy and not the bank.

[1098] Toyota Motor Credit being wealthy is not my concern.

[1099] My concern is my family building wealth.

[1100] And so I'm not going to give Toyota Motor Credit a car payment or whatever bank you want to name or a car company you want to name.

[1101] So how old are you, Travis?

[1102] I am 41.

[1103] Good.

[1104] Good for you.

[1105] What do you do?

[1106] I run, I manage a restaurant.

[1107] Good for you.

[1108] Okay.

[1109] And how long have you been in the restaurant business?

[1110] uh about 12 years good for you it's hard work man a lot of hard hours too and you put up with a serious amount of crap um the um all right so our goals what we teach you is a process called the baby steps which is to first have a thousand dollars saved as a starter emergency fund then second become debt free everything but the house using the debt snowball third build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then fourth, start investing 15 % of your income.

[1111] In your case, if you had no payments but a house payment and you save 15 % of your income, well, 15 % of 40 ,000 is 6 ,000.

[1112] That's $500 a month.

[1113] If you invest $500 a month from age 41 to age 61, you will be a millionaire.

[1114] Wow.

[1115] And that's if you never get a raise.

[1116] and I suspect you're probably going to get a raise.

[1117] I suspect if you can manage a restaurant in Buffalo, New York, you probably could manage a better restaurant in Buffalo, New York, that pays $75 ,000 instead of $41.

[1118] So some career goals are probably going to cause you to make more throughout your life.

[1119] I doubt you're stuck at 41 in perpetuation.

[1120] It's just where you are today.

[1121] Yes.

[1122] Yeah.

[1123] I appreciate that.

[1124] I mean, I should point out, though, I mean, I don't know if this wouldn't matter, but as of today, I have no outstanding debt.

[1125] Good, okay, then you're on your way.

[1126] How's it paid?

[1127] You have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses?

[1128] Oh, yeah, yes.

[1129] Good.

[1130] How much do you have saved?

[1131] Well, in the savings count, I got about $45 ,000 a little bit more.

[1132] Excellent.

[1133] Excellent.

[1134] You are on your way, man. Way to go.

[1135] Way to go.

[1136] Do you have a 401k at the restaurant?

[1137] Well, I didn't.

[1138] And see, when COVID came, I was with a financial advisor, and, no, the restaurant doesn't offer direct, unfortunately, but when the market collapse, she advised that we should postpone, maybe looking into investing, you know, the beginning of that.

[1139] Yeah, okay.

[1140] So let's get you somebody set up to do a Roth IRA for you and your wife, and let's get going.

[1141] And let's get 500 bucks a month going in, minimum.

[1142] And it's 15 % of your household income.

[1143] So if you're married and she makes money, that's part of the formula too, by the way.

[1144] And that accelerates things even more.

[1145] But if you want to know who we tell people to go to in your area, just go to ramsysolutions .com and click on SmartVestor.

[1146] And you'll find a SmartVestor pro there that has the heart of a teacher.

[1147] And they'll sit down and show you the numbers I was just talking about.

[1148] You already know how to live on less than you make.

[1149] You don't have any debt.

[1150] you already know how to save money you have $45 ,000 you're already a champion we've just now got to convert some of those habits into making you into an investor not just a saver and when you do that with your Roth IRA if you'll do that every stinking month for the next 20 years you'll be a millionaire promise you so folks the numbers are $100 a month saved from age 25 to age 65 is $1 ,176 ,000 he's 41 not 25 but he's at $500 a month not $100 a month you follow in my math here I hope you are I didn't just dream that number up it actually ran through my little brain this is the ramsie show live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[1151] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one, bestselling author multiple times over, and my daughter is my co -host today.

[1152] Open phones at AAA -825 -5 -225.

[1153] Sarah is in Fresno, California.

[1154] Hi, Sarah.

[1155] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[1156] Hi, Dave.

[1157] I'm so glad to speak with you.

[1158] You too.

[1159] I was hoping to help me with some situation.

[1160] I have so much It's just a mounting of Stress, death I don't know how I don't see a way How I'm going to get rid of this I've been listening to you for A couple weeks now And I'm getting familiar with your baby steps But I don't know how I'm going to be able to Climb out of this pit That I've dug my self into the last few tell me about what kind of debt have you got kiddo um I have over a hundred and sixty five thousand um and unsecured debt uh that includes cars personal loan credit cards I yeah yeah give me give me a little breakdown how much do you owe on your car I have three, three, three cars.

[1161] One is 45 ,000.

[1162] I currently owe, I have a $31 ,000 car, and a $14 ,000 car.

[1163] And a $14 ,000 or a $40?

[1164] $14 ,000.

[1165] So 45, 31, and 14 on cars.

[1166] So I take it you're married.

[1167] Yes, I am.

[1168] I have a $67 ,000 in personal loan.

[1169] I have $20 ,000 credit card.

[1170] I don't know what.

[1171] I must have just occurred in like two years.

[1172] After I had my baby, I just, I guess I went crazy.

[1173] Why do you have three cars?

[1174] Um, the first one, it was a very old car, I had about 20 years, so that one died.

[1175] It was over 200 ,000 miles, so I went and got a car, a van, that kid, and then I should have, had I found you earlier, maybe I would have not made all these decisions.

[1176] But, um, I mean, you're still owe money on the car.

[1177] I guess the dead one's sitting in the driveway?

[1178] I'm driving it.

[1179] That's my, that's my personal car from, you know, work.

[1180] The dead one is?

[1181] Yeah.

[1182] Oh, so it's running.

[1183] It didn't die.

[1184] It's really dead.

[1185] No, you drove it to work.

[1186] Oh, no, that's my new car.

[1187] No, I'm asking what happened to the dead car, the 14 ,000 one?

[1188] Where is it?

[1189] Oh, no, no, I'm so sorry.

[1190] The one I got to, the old one that I had over 200 ,000 miles, that one is still sitting in the driveway.

[1191] That's what I said.

[1192] You have a dead car sitting in the driveway that you're a little.

[1193] 14k on?

[1194] No, I don't owe anything on.

[1195] Okay, what's the third car you owe 14 on?

[1196] So you have four cars.

[1197] Yeah, one dad, three that I still owe loans on.

[1198] One is for my daughter and one is my husband and then the van is mine.

[1199] Okay.

[1200] How old is your daughter?

[1201] She is in college right now.

[1202] I see.

[1203] Okay.

[1204] And how much do you make, honey?

[1205] I'm going to, I make over a hundred.

[1206] What does your husband make?

[1207] My husband makes about 35, so our combined income last year was 156, I think.

[1208] And this year is probably maybe the same.

[1209] I'm not working as the like full crazy load.

[1210] So it's going to be roughly around there.

[1211] How do you think we can best help you, hon?

[1212] I don't know I'm listening to your show watching your show on YouTube and I've seen that you've helped out a lot of people and I don't know I'm thinking of maybe just following bankruptcy but you're not bankrupt you just got to stop some of this you just got to stop some of this I don't know if I should return a call or I don't know why slow down slow down slow down slow down slow down it's just so it's overwhelming it's overwhelming breathe a second okay take a breath take a breath so here's what we got to do are you guys ready to turn your life upside down to keep from feeling this way I am I feel what about him because I just need to get out of this I make him about around 8 around close to 9000 a month and all of those money goes goes to car payments it's everything and you guys just buy a car every time you change clothes you guys got to quit buying cars you need to sell some cars okay so the dead car in the driveway should be sold immediately and you need to sell the other two and get you two $5 ,000 cars that you pay cash for you got you got 2 ,500 bucks a month going out in car payments yes yeah yeah no wonder you're broke it's sitting in your driveway all your stress is your cars because the personal loan and the credit cards came from the fact that you didn't have any money because you gave it all the car company.

[1213] And so you went and used a credit card because you're broke.

[1214] Right?

[1215] Is that right?

[1216] Okay.

[1217] So you're going to have to sell some cars, Sarah.

[1218] Okay.

[1219] You have to get out of these stupid cars.

[1220] You cannot afford them.

[1221] They're killing you.

[1222] They're causing you to be on national radio crying.

[1223] You need to be rid of these cars.

[1224] Amputate the van.

[1225] it leaves you need to get rid of these cars and the one the driveway i mean you just can't keep collecting vehicles and be anything but broke and that's what you guys have been doing so and a conversation with her with your daughter that she's not she you guys can't afford a car so yeah yeah she can't either she's going to get a job while she's in college and start paying the payments on that 14 or we're going to sell her car okay yeah yeah Rich people give their kids cars, not broke people.

[1226] Okay.

[1227] And you're broke and stressed and telling me you think you're bankrupt.

[1228] You don't give a college kid a car when you think you're stressed and bankrupt.

[1229] So you're going to have to undo some of these, and it's going to be painful, but it's going to be less painful than the way you feel right now because you can't even breathe right now.

[1230] No. Yeah.

[1231] I'm sorry, honey.

[1232] I've been where you are.

[1233] It's no fun, but I will tell you this.

[1234] I can show you what to do, and your life is going to be.

[1235] hell for the next 18 months and then you're going to be free it's going to be very uncomfortable for the next year and a half and then you'll be free for the rest of your life but you're going to sell everything in sight people are going to be mad at you people aren't going to like you saying no so much and i don't care and you can't care anymore you've been trying to fix everything for everybody and you just run around and buy stuff.

[1236] You've got to stop it.

[1237] Yeah, and hold on the line Sarah Christian will pick up and we're going to get you FPU and nine lessons and you and your husband need to sit down this weekend and binge them.

[1238] Watch all of them.

[1239] Yes.

[1240] And do a budget and we'll give you every dollar, every dollar premium for that and sit down and control these expenses as well.

[1241] And that's going to be cutting your lifestyle.

[1242] Drastically.

[1243] You live in Fresna, one of the most expensive places to live.

[1244] Drastically cut your lifestyle.

[1245] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[1246] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[1247] So, apparently when I am out on vacation, you guys take calls and the people commenting and on YouTube don't think I would have given the same advice you give or something like that.

[1248] It will happen every now and then.

[1249] Which is usually wrong, by the way.

[1250] I mean, you guys, are very consistent, just like I am.

[1251] Yeah, I mean, yeah, some of it's a very black and white issue, right?

[1252] What do you do?

[1253] You sell the car, you know, all of it.

[1254] And then sometimes you get a call that you're like, oh, man, I mean, here's what I would do in your situation.

[1255] I don't know if Dave would do this, but this is what we would do.

[1256] You and George had one, you know, about an elderly lady a few days ago.

[1257] You went back to his call.

[1258] So I told Dave today, I was like, I want to go back to a call Ken and I had because it's gotten close to like 2 million views on Instagram.

[1259] We clipped some of it.

[1260] And in the comments, people were very opinionated that we gave the wrong advice.

[1261] And so I was like, well, and everyone's like, I wonder what Dave would say.

[1262] Because he says, you know, rice and beans, sell everything.

[1263] And the kids think they're next.

[1264] You know, he's on this, you know, rampage against debt.

[1265] And he would not have probably given this advice.

[1266] So I asked James, did you clip it, James?

[1267] Okay, we're going to play the clip.

[1268] And I'm just so curious if you agree with me or not.

[1269] my daughter is 22 and she just graduated from college with some student loan debt and about a year ago she was able to get on the pre -sale and buy three tickets for her, my older daughter and myself to go to a Taylor Swift concert in Indianapolis.

[1270] We got him for like $209 a piece.

[1271] So now I'm seeing these resale.

[1272] Oh, it's crazy.

[1273] Oh, it's crazy.

[1274] It's insane.

[1275] And so I told her like, why don't we sell those tickets and you can knock down so much of your student loan, but you'd be so far ahead.

[1276] She says, absolutely, it's non -negotiable.

[1277] It's a bucket list item.

[1278] She's like probably you, Rachel, a Swifty, and this is, you know.

[1279] And it's her money, right?

[1280] No, it was my money.

[1281] Oh, okay.

[1282] It was my money.

[1283] So I paid for them.

[1284] But, you know, I mean, this is, and for me, too, I'm looking at, like, you know, she's iconic.

[1285] I would love to go to her concert.

[1286] My daughter, of all the people that she could take, she wants to take her sister and me, you know, I mean, that's great.

[1287] It's going to be a fun thing.

[1288] What would your take be?

[1289] What Rachel now walk us through?

[1290] What do you think you could make on these tickets?

[1291] I'm thinking they would average out between three, four grand.

[1292] A ticket.

[1293] Yeah, per ticket.

[1294] So her student loan debt is 24 ,000?

[1295] And she could not have it.

[1296] And that's what you would want to put the money towards.

[1297] Absolutely, 100 % of it will go to there.

[1298] Would you be putting $9 ,000 plus dollars towards her student loan if you hadn't bought these tickets?

[1299] I would not I wouldn't resell these tickets here's the deal Jill you weren't planning to cut a check for $9 ,500 to put on your daughter student loan ever I was not so my whole point is if it's like a windfall right if $9 ,500 sell into my lap I might do that I get it but this is your daughters and it's a once -in -a -lifetime concert oh yeah I agree you go Jill go to the concert you weren't going to do this anyway and I think your daughter said absolutely no way and I think it creates an unnecessary tension she's 22 she needs to pay the thing off herself anyway there's a lot of reasons I want our audience to know I'm not just I just think when I will look at something like this this is about the emotional not to find Rachel I fully expected you to be a I'm very disappointed in Ken. Anything having to do with Disney or Taylor Swift, Rachel's completely on board.

[1300] I was shocked that Ken was like.

[1301] He just jumped in there as a Swifty.

[1302] I was so happy about it.

[1303] Listen, I got to tell you, I'm a huge admirer of what Taylor Swift has built.

[1304] I do not.

[1305] I'm not a consumer of her music, but that's just because I'm an old guy.

[1306] And, you know, but she's amazing.

[1307] performer business person yeah what she has built is iconic yes I mean she's it's it's you have to stand back and go wow regardless I mean just we're in the entertainment the broadcast world much smaller degree obviously and nobody's selling my tickets for 14k but the but but but yeah but that's uh okay so now now but and you know what I try to think about things like where it's hard for me because it would be hard for me personally.

[1308] Like if a guy calls up and he's got a ski boat, okay, which I love my Mastercraft ski boats, okay?

[1309] That MasterCraft is the best ski boat.

[1310] I love them.

[1311] And telling a guy to sell his MasterCraft to get out of debt is very hard for me. Yes.

[1312] So for you telling somebody to sell a Taylor Swift concert or avoid a Disney vacation is very hard.

[1313] Okay.

[1314] Disney, I can put out, this is like a once in a lifetime thing.

[1315] Oh, whoopty -dupty.

[1316] It's a concert.

[1317] If you had a, here's this.

[1318] By the way, it's a ski boat.

[1319] I'm putting it in perspective for you, though.

[1320] If you had a trip booked with Daniel and his son, Eli, because this is what it was for her, her daughter, right?

[1321] A trip booked, and you had planned it out.

[1322] Daniel had student loans.

[1323] We can go here for a second.

[1324] Daniel had student loans.

[1325] And you could sell the trip for three times from what you bought it for.

[1326] Would you do that and put it towards Daniel's loans?

[1327] The nuance and the call that does change the answer for me. Okay.

[1328] Is she gave her daughter a gift of some money, $600.

[1329] Of tickets.

[1330] No, she gave her daughter, $600 and the daughter bought the tickets with it.

[1331] Yeah, for the tickets, though.

[1332] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1333] So she gave her a gift.

[1334] So she's no longer in control of this.

[1335] Oh, I hear what you're saying.

[1336] Yes.

[1337] So the mom is not in control.

[1338] The daughter is in control of it.

[1339] Correct.

[1340] And she bought tickets.

[1341] Now, if the daughter called me and said, my mom gave me these tickets, gave me $600 to buy these tickets, and I can sell them for $12 ,000.

[1342] I would ask her, if you had $12 ,000 sitting in the middle of the table and you didn't have Taylor Swift tickets, would you put it on your student loans or would you put it on the things?

[1343] And I would tell the daughter to sell the tickets.

[1344] but I'm not going to tell the mom to renege on a gift.

[1345] Yes, yes.

[1346] Okay, that makes sense.

[1347] Okay.

[1348] That's kind of what our trade of thought was.

[1349] That's a control issue.

[1350] When you give someone a gift and then you try to take it back, that's not a gift.

[1351] And there's some politically incorrect things we used to call that, okay, that you can't say anymore.

[1352] But the, and shouldn't.

[1353] But anyway, you're taking something back after it's a gift, you shouldn't do that, right?

[1354] and so the uh and i would never recommend to someone to do that yeah so for the mom so so the mom is who called you you tell the mom i would advise the daughter to sell the tickets though yes so if it was the different person in the situation calling so daniel called and said i'm in debt and i can buy this for three times no and i can sell these tickets from a trip that i have planned with my dad and my son should i yes yes yes because that let me just tell you I mean what is more important in the scope of your entire of the next 50 years of your life getting a student loan paid off or going to a Taylor Swift concert I don't know the memories are forever no they're not yeah they are I remember I don't remember a lot of the concerts I went to I went to for other reasons for other reasons Dave no just because it was a long time ago I can't even tell you that all the concerts I didn't go to.

[1355] But I remember my first concert with my, with mom and Denise.

[1356] Okay.

[1357] That's wonderful.

[1358] And then you still think about it to this day.

[1359] Oh, yes.

[1360] What a woman.

[1361] And that's worth how much?

[1362] Not much.

[1363] Probably not even what we paid for Celine at that time because that was a Vegas thing.

[1364] If I remember.

[1365] No, no, she came to, she came to Nashville.

[1366] Oh, she was.

[1367] Yeah, this was way back in.

[1368] Yeah, my heart will go on days.

[1369] Okay.

[1370] Okay.

[1371] I know.

[1372] But, okay, but, but, but there, that's what's hard about life.

[1373] That's what's hard about life.

[1374] There's a tradeoff.

[1375] There's always a trade off.

[1376] tradeoff and you just have to make a value decision and one way you make decisions is if I had that amount of money in the middle of the table if I have $24 ,000 in student loan debt and I wake up and there's $12 ,000 lay in the middle of my kitchen table do I go buy Taylor Swift concerts or put it on my student loan you put it on your student loan that's not it's a no -brainer for me now that's talking to the daughter but I'm never going to tell the mom to go back so I'm not really going to say your all's advice was wrong yeah but it's a great it's a great discussion particularly because we get to discover that, to my great disappointment, Ken Coleman is a Swifty.

[1377] This is the full letdown of the call right here.

[1378] I'm just saying.

[1379] He just jumped right on it.

[1380] He didn't even let you do it.

[1381] He's like, you should go.

[1382] Just go.

[1383] I couldn't believe it.

[1384] It's Taylor freaking Swift.

[1385] You should go.

[1386] It was so great.

[1387] It was so great.

[1388] And by the way, by the way, we all are fans of Taylor in one way or another.

[1389] Rachel is a worshipper of Taylor.

[1390] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1391] Buying a home, selling a home in this market, if you do it wrong, it could be a curse and not a blessing.

[1392] And real estate's not always a blessing.

[1393] It's only a blessing if you do it right and you do it in the right way within your own finances.

[1394] We'll help you do that.

[1395] And one of the things we've learned to do is to identify high -octane, high -protein get -or -done real estate agents.

[1396] Now, this is not your Uncle Charlie who got his license three weeks ago.

[1397] It hadn't sold a house yet and wants to sell your largest asset.

[1398] No, you don't use Uncle Charlie.

[1399] Not if you're smart.

[1400] You just say, Uncle Charlie, I love you, but you're not my real estate agent.

[1401] No. Or your little friend down at church who's never done anything.

[1402] You've got no, no, no. You get someone that knows what they're doing and has done a lot of transactions to help you with your deal.

[1403] And then you'll get your deal done and you'll do it right.

[1404] that we call them Ramsey trusted because we have vetted them and they are trusted by us.

[1405] So if you want to find the Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, that'll help you buy or sell the way Ramsey teaches and that are professionals and that are high producing agents, just go to ramsysolutions .com slash agent.

[1406] Catherine's in Salt Lake City.

[1407] Hi, Catherine.

[1408] How are you?

[1409] Hi, Dave and Rachel.

[1410] Thanks for taking my call.

[1411] I'm excited to talk to you.

[1412] You too.

[1413] What's up?

[1414] Okay.

[1415] My question is, should we, well, I hope this isn't my inner child coming out, and maybe you'll have to talk to the sentencing to me, but my husband and I would like to buy a vacation home.

[1416] And I'm wondering, in order to do that without debt, we would need to sacrifice part of our retirement for this.

[1417] Okay.

[1418] So I wanted to get your take.

[1419] Okay.

[1420] It would depend on the ratio.

[1421] Okay.

[1422] Okay, because whatever we put into the toy is going to stop producing income, and what we have left has to produce enough income to make us all smile.

[1423] So what's the size of your nest egg?

[1424] Total our net worth is $3 .6 million.

[1425] Good.

[1426] Okay.

[1427] And how expensive a toy are we buying?

[1428] Probably $4 ,000 to $500 ,000.

[1429] I would buy it.

[1430] So you would sell an income producing piece of real estate.

[1431] and buy it or an income producing mutual fund and buy it and by the way i have okay i have a nice lake house really nice lake house and uh it's one of my favorite it's one of my favorite places on the planet and um not only that i'll go back further we bought that house for a hundred and four thousand in two thousand the lake house um the kids grew up skiing off of the dock we put on at that time and later on we bought the little house next door which was the same size gave pick them up and moved them and gave them the local sheriff's department for rehab houses and built a big house across where those two used to sit and that's where we are now we've been in that house since 2012 so we upgraded so I've done it twice the 105 ,000 felt like it was a lot more than the big house did but it was a big bigger percentage ratio wise your ratios are fine.

[1432] What's the, I'm curious, Catherine, the 3 .6.

[1433] I'm just curious, what are they in?

[1434] Is it?

[1435] Because you mentioned selling an income producing all real estate, or is it some mutual funds?

[1436] 2 .2 is investment real estate.

[1437] And then our home is about 530.

[1438] And then 401Ks IRAs is 770 and about 160 and about 160 in the bank.

[1439] How old are you?

[1440] We're 54.

[1441] Okay.

[1442] So the only way to get out the money sell one of the pieces of real estate because otherwise you'd be penalized on the 401k money.

[1443] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1444] I would do it.

[1445] I would do.

[1446] Where's the property?

[1447] Just curious.

[1448] It's in St. George, Utah.

[1449] Okay, so it's a mountain property?

[1450] No, it's the red rock kind of desert.

[1451] Oh, got it.

[1452] Oh, okay.

[1453] That's fun.

[1454] That's cool.

[1455] Yeah.

[1456] Because, I mean, yeah.

[1457] But I'm looking at ratios, all right?

[1458] So if you call me up and you told me you had a net worth of $1 .5 million.

[1459] and your house was 500 and you want to put 400 into a toy I would say no because it would leave you with only one third of your whole net worth working for you the rest of it's sitting your house and your toys are sitting that makes sense yeah that's what that's why I answered it by ratios and so it's a small enough percentage of your world that it won't keep your it won't burn your world down okay and um yeah Yeah, you guys have done a very, very good job.

[1460] Did you inherit a bunch of money?

[1461] How'd you end up a 3 .6 at 54?

[1462] No. We bought the total money makeover probably 15 years ago, highly in debt, and we worked our way through it.

[1463] And, yeah, so we came actually a year and a half ago and did our debt -free scream, and we just, we never will go back.

[1464] So your baby steps millionaires.

[1465] Way to go.

[1466] What do you guys do for a living, Catherine?

[1467] I'm just curious.

[1468] Um, we both work at a university.

[1469] Okay.

[1470] It's great.

[1471] Good for you.

[1472] Well done.

[1473] Yeah, excellent.

[1474] You're heroes.

[1475] So again, it's the ratios.

[1476] That's what we're looking at.

[1477] And another way of looking at that folks for Catherine is, um, if you're going to buy a toy, if you're going to consume the money, okay, which is what you're doing when you buy a vacation property because it does not create income.

[1478] Unless you rent.

[1479] And if you have to rent it out, you probably shouldn't do it because it's going to drive you nuts.

[1480] If you want to own rental property, on rental property.

[1481] If you want to own a beach house or mountain house, buy it.

[1482] Okay.

[1483] But this idea I have to rent it to justify it means you're probably too broke to buy it.

[1484] So, um, anyway, the, the rule I use on stuff like that, if I'm going to buy a car or I'm going to buy a toy of a property or something like that that, that's not going to create money is, uh, if I put that my amount of money in the middle of the fire pit and burned it, does it destroy my life?

[1485] In other words, if we took 400, k of your 3 .6 and burned it your life doesn't even change other than the tears right yeah and that's that's the way i'm looking at it i mean it doesn't your life does not change i mean it does not substantially change you're 54 you have 3 .6 which means when you're 74 you're probably have 20 to 25 million dollar net worth and that's not going to change dramatically by this one purchase And this purchase will go up in value.

[1486] It just won't create income while it's going up in value.

[1487] You know, the lakehouse has gone up dramatically.

[1488] It's crazy how much money I've made on that.

[1489] And, yeah.

[1490] And you just add Dave Ramsey rumors to it.

[1491] It even gets better.

[1492] Or worse.

[1493] I don't know.

[1494] Well, I mean, it's just people just make up stuff.

[1495] I mean, my neighbor told me the day he heard I sold it for $22 million.

[1496] And I said I would because it's not worth anywhere near that.

[1497] sold sold so but it's the rumors going around you know so anyway yeah catherine do it you're in a good shape great job buy the taylor swift tickets do it day's in a giving mood i'm just i'm just unbelievable i'm just being so kind today oh my gosh everybody do whatever you want um but is there is there an element though that you run numbers i mean because you didn't hear in this scenario but to say okay by the time you're 62 you're going to be in retirement age uh you want to be a able to have X amount coming in like that four to five percent you don't mean like do you get granular with it though like this was a little flip it but the ratios will take care of that for you so in this case she said they had 780 ,000 or whatever 800 ,000 in their 401 case okay if that's in good mutual funds it's going to double every seven years she's 54 so it's 61 that'll be 1 .5 at 68 that alone will be 3 million just her 401k money yeah and the bulk of theirs is not in their 401k bulk of theirs in real estate.

[1498] And the real estate's going to continue to go up to and create income.

[1499] So you just run those numbers out and that's how I can get to 25 million pretty quick with them or 20 million.

[1500] And they're also savers.

[1501] They're going to continue to save.

[1502] And they obviously, I'm guessing also that they have a pretty substantial income to create that in 13 years.

[1503] Right.

[1504] Right.

[1505] Yeah.

[1506] They turned that around very quickly, pretty dramatically.

[1507] So they're, they're rock stars, man. They're just, they, they touchdown.

[1508] You win the Super Bowl.

[1509] That's what it's for.

[1510] and so you live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else you don't drive a hoopty because it's fun you drive a hoopty so you never have to drive one again it's not a badge of honor you drive a hoopty so you get a good car later this is the ramsie show our scripture of the day ecclesiastes 1010 if the axe is dull and its edge unsharpened more strength is needed but skill will bring success tom brady said to be successful at anything the truth is you don't have to be special you just have to be what most people aren't consistent determined and willing to work for it i i would say that i'm probably 80 to 90 % in agreement with that, but it's hard for me to say out loud that Tom Brady wasn't special, one of the best quarterbacks to ever live in the NFL.

[1511] I mean, there's no question he was special.

[1512] So, but his work ethic, and, you know, I don't know Tom personally.

[1513] I know Peyton, and I spent time with him, and what was special about Peyton, not only is he a physical specimen, but I mean, he's huge, but he's got hands like a ham.

[1514] And so he has a different grip on a football than I do.

[1515] I can just tell you that, okay?

[1516] But he also had one of the, he and Tom were both renowned for their film work, their commitment to proper exercise and proper care of their bodies, their commitment to the mental aspects of the game.

[1517] They both had a work ethic that shamed everyone else on the team in both cases.

[1518] And they were both iconic, some of the best quarterbacks to ever live.

[1519] And again, I don't know that as much of.

[1520] about Tom as I do about Payton, but just looking in from the outside, I suspect that's true.

[1521] Malcolm Gladwell said it in the book Outliers.

[1522] He said, you need to spend 10 ,000 hours of excellent practice, meaning getting better each time you do the repetition, not just doing it over and over wrong, but 10 ,000 hours at something and have a little bit of a gift at it to get to be Tiger Woods, to get to be Brad Paisley at a guitar.

[1523] to get to be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady with the football.

[1524] You have to spend 10 ,000 hours to get to world class.

[1525] Yeah, because I think the argument would be you could spend 10 ,000 hours and never be that.

[1526] Yeah, I could spend 10 ,000 hours and never be that in the NFL.

[1527] Right, right.

[1528] But then I would also say that there's like, you know, athletes, athletic people in the world in the history, but because of the work ethic and mental game, they never got there, right?

[1529] That they had the - Because they didn't have the work.

[1530] Exactly, exactly.

[1531] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1532] I mean, like, so it's a both -and.

[1533] It's aggravating as crud for coaches.

[1534] You know, somebody who's got the talent and won't apply themselves.

[1535] It drives you nuts.

[1536] So, but, yeah, you have to spend.

[1537] And, you know, our situation is not different.

[1538] I've got way more than 10 ,000 hours on this microphone.

[1539] You're probably approaching 10 ,000 hours on the microphone and on stages and so forth at this stage.

[1540] And, you know, again, major nationally known brands.

[1541] You look at our social footprint, the number of people that brand recognized one of us, if you were to do a survey on branding and so forth, we know what our numbers are.

[1542] But I've done this for 30 years.

[1543] So in this space, which is a fairly little tiny space, but that's where I've applied myself.

[1544] And that's where this comes out.

[1545] So it's interesting.

[1546] It's an interesting discussion.

[1547] There's a combination between talent and sweat.

[1548] And I think there are people that you could put them in front of a microphone for 15 years, and they still would suck.

[1549] I mean, I think that's true.

[1550] I think that's true about me. football, right?

[1551] I'd still suck.

[1552] And I don't have that natural physical building.

[1553] Never did.

[1554] I had a little bit, but nowhere near that stuff.

[1555] Paul is in California.

[1556] Hi, Paul.

[1557] What's up?

[1558] Hey, David, it's a pleasure talking to you.

[1559] How are you guys doing today?

[1560] Better than we deserve.

[1561] How can we help?

[1562] So, first of all, I just want to say, I took care of my mom for about seven years, and I used to listen to your show every day when we were going through chemo and all the stuff, and we had a ton of debt at the time and your show seriously got me through it just because I could see a light at the end of the tunnel of what to do in the future and so I just want to say thank you genuinely where I stand today and I want to hear your thoughts so I'll keep a brief is I'm 30 years old, I'm getting married in August I currently live with families and not paying any rent.

[1563] I'm purchasing a home in August and putting $150 ,000 down my gross income is $180 a year I have a $45 ,000 emergency fund fully funded for six months or even longer.

[1564] I have, in terms of investments, I have only one real investment, which is Apple stock.

[1565] I have about $50 ,000 that I just never touch.

[1566] It was something that, you know, I just wanted to purchase and I keep.

[1567] So my question is, now that I'm buying a home and putting a significant down payment and I followed all the rules, I don't know where to start with investing and doing it with mental peace because a few years ago I made some money on Tesla and that was, although it worked out great, I look at it now and it was just a super stressful, you know, time and it almost kind of affected my own relationship, which is she's amazing now we're getting married.

[1568] But my question is, where do I start with investing and how do I know how much to put towards paying down my mortgage versus investing versus retirement?

[1569] Yeah, I mean, it's a great question.

[1570] the the bulk of the stress came, Paul, because all your eggs were in one basket.

[1571] I'm like, you're not diversified when you were investing and still aren't with the Apple stock, right?

[1572] The single stock way, it is going to be more volatile and it will be more stressful.

[1573] And so when we look at investing in general, but specifically with retirement, it will be in more of a mutual fund aspect, which is 90 to 200 of those stock.

[1574] So your diversification through it is going to give you more peace and your outlook on it has to be different.

[1575] You're not worried about what it's doing today or next year or in 10 years.

[1576] You're really saying, hey, I'm putting this money in and I'm not going to see it until I'm 59 .5 when I can take it out without penalty.

[1577] And so it's a long game you're playing when it comes to investing where it kind of just sounds a little bit like you've played the short game.

[1578] And so that mentality I think would shift and I think would lower your stress too.

[1579] so Paul you're getting married in August yeah congratulations and you're closing on a house in August yeah 10 days before the wedding did she pick out the house it was a mutual decision we both wanted the we both wanted the house okay so you didn't buy a house and then tell your new bride ta -da no no no it's been uh it's been it's been a journey we've been on to find the right home.

[1580] It's a new construction, so it just ends up closing 10 days before the wedding.

[1581] Gotcha.

[1582] Okay, good.

[1583] That solves number one problem.

[1584] Dave thought Paul was just taken over.

[1585] Well, he's a man on a mission.

[1586] I can tell that.

[1587] So the, now you've been listening to us for years.

[1588] Yeah.

[1589] So you know the baby steps, right?

[1590] Yes, I do.

[1591] Yes, I do.

[1592] So you know that you don't have any debt and you have your merchandise.

[1593] fund in place.

[1594] And so that baby step four, we would tell you to do what?

[1595] Fifteen percent for retirement.

[1596] Tudda.

[1597] There you go.

[1598] That's your answer.

[1599] You and your spouse are going to sit down and start putting 15 percent of your new combined household income.

[1600] Yeah, how much will she make, or is she making?

[1601] She's a florist and she's starting your business.

[1602] It's going to be about 25 ,000 initially.

[1603] Okay.

[1604] Okay.

[1605] So whatever your household income is, 15 % of that at Baby Step 4.

[1606] goes into retirement.

[1607] You don't have children yet, I assume.

[1608] No. Then baby step five is moot, and anything above 15 % going into retirement, you either consume it, you give it, or you put it on the house, and you probably ought to do some of all three with the money above 15 % of your income.

[1609] You should not put 20 % in, and you should not be doing any investing other than retirement until your house is paid off.

[1610] Okay.

[1611] Okay.

[1612] So I appreciate that.

[1613] I know you talk about smart investor pros.

[1614] Is there a specific book?

[1615] Because I follow all you guys and I watch.

[1616] There's just a lot of content to consume just busy with life.

[1617] But is there a place to go to understand what to invest in and kind of where to start doing it the right way, I guess?

[1618] Yeah, it's pretty basic.

[1619] I mean, again, if you've listened to us this much, you've heard me talk about the four types of mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth in international.

[1620] and I picked mutual funds that hopefully have a 10 -year or longer track record inside your 401K.

[1621] We're looking for Roth.

[1622] We're looking for match first, Roth, second, traditional third, and good mutual funds, long track record.

[1623] And that's how I do it.

[1624] It's really not much more than that to it.

[1625] I'll send you a copy of the Baby Steps Millionaire's book, which has a lot about investing in it because it shows you what the millionaires have done.

[1626] And it'll help you because you're going to be one pretty quick at the rate you're going.

[1627] And well done, Paul.

[1628] I mean, even with your mom's sickness.

[1629] And you've done a, you've been a stand -up guy across the board.

[1630] Yeah, well done.

[1631] That puts us out of The Ramsey Show and the books.

[1632] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1633] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace.

[1634] Christ Jesus.

[1635] Hey, guys, I'm Rachel.

[1636] And I'm George.

[1637] And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show.

[1638] And do we have a surprise for you?

[1639] Yep.

[1640] We have our very own show.

[1641] smart money happy hour where we talk about pop culture current events and of course money george it's a great show and what else do we talk about so much rachel not enough and yet too much we talk about guilt tipping because tipping is out of control and i won't stand for it anymore which is why i'm sitting i'm glad you're taking such a stand and we also talk about something else i'm passionate about disney adults oh george why is it a thing listen some adults still find the magic sure we also talk about toxic money traits and girl math If you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast.

[1642] Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys.

[1643] It's pretty fun.

[1644] We keep you relevant, is what I'm trying to say.

[1645] We help you out.

[1646] So pull up a chair to the happy hour.

[1647] You wish your friends we're having.

[1648] We promise you won't regret it.

[1649] And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.

[1650] We will.

[1651] We're great friends.

[1652] So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.