Kate & Oliver Hudson

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] Sitting across from me is the beautiful, talented Emmy nominated Monica Bladman.

[3] That's me. You're here.

[4] I'm here.

[5] I'm in Halloween.

[6] Oh, it's Halloween today, even though it's not Halloween today.

[7] We always celebrate Halloween five days after Halloween as a policy.

[8] Yeah.

[9] So that the streets aren't crowded and we don't have to wait in lines when we knock at the doors.

[10] That's right.

[11] We have a very tasty episode today.

[12] We do.

[13] I didn't know if we would talk about the fact that we had been in a relationship.

[14] I thought maybe we'd blow right past that.

[15] But good old Oliver, he immediately forced us to confront it.

[16] Well, you were going to.

[17] Let's be honest.

[18] We weren't going to pretend we didn't dated.

[19] Yeah.

[20] We weren't going to pretend it we didn't have dated it.

[21] But Oliver really forced the issue in a very funny way.

[22] So today, Kate and Oliver Hudson, brother and sister are here.

[23] They have a new podcast called Sibling Revelry.

[24] and that is out today it's on apple podcast Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts i think you know both kate and oliver kate is an academy award nominated actress an author a fashion designer oliver's been on a bunch of shows rules of engagements splitting up together nashville scream queens they're the progeny of a very famous woman goldie hans they're infinitely interesting and fun and i love them and have been friends with both of them and dated one of them for quite a So please enjoy Kate and Oliver Hudson.

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[27] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[28] Are you covering your chewing for people with misophonia?

[29] I'm just...

[30] What is that ASMR shit, right?

[31] That's the opposite of MISOFOR.

[32] That's people who like it.

[33] Misophonia is people who have.

[34] hate it.

[35] By the way, my kids are into the ASMR stuff.

[36] They're watching on YouTube and it's like I'm like, this is disgusting.

[37] Some dude eating spaghetti.

[38] I'm into it.

[39] You're like, yes, for certain people, I guess it induces euphoria.

[40] Wait, dads, have you ever interviewed an ex -girlfriend?

[41] I interviewed a gal I had hooked up with Andrea.

[42] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[43] But not dated.

[44] Not dated, yeah.

[45] I've never been interviewed by an ex -boyfriend.

[46] Oh, you haven't.

[47] This will be so fun.

[48] No, it's been fun.

[49] Well, again, I don't want to trigger any old memories and be controlling, but you will need that microphone quite a bit closer to your face.

[50] Okay.

[51] Oh, how quickly we fall into our old patterns.

[52] It's strangely erotic?

[53] Yeah, yeah.

[54] Like, Dad, look at this guy or this girl, sorry, eating spaghetti.

[55] And I'm like, okay, I got to go because it's weirdly erotic.

[56] I don't know why.

[57] I feel that way about those unwrapping videos, well there's something so perverse going on the way they delicately and systematically take things out in the presentation but let me ask you a question though because there is something that that triggers in the brain to make it as sensational as it has been sure what is that why do we want to watch these things i think it's intimacy i think it's you don't normally get to be a part of people's like eating spaghetti i have i have an answer okay let's hear it Not even an opinion.

[58] Straight answer.

[59] Kate Hudson.

[60] It actually stimulates the pleasure center of our brain.

[61] So like when you hear sound at a certain, it's like any kind of tone or harmony or anything that it directly hits the pleasure.

[62] Interesting.

[63] Okay, so that would explain the ASMR.

[64] I think that the unwrapping thing is who among us hasn't enjoyed unwrapping a present.

[65] So your mirror neurons are triggering as you watch this person.

[66] unwrap a present and you go straight back to the last present you unwrapped yeah for me it's been a while but it's not sensual when you're unwrapping a present it depends what the gift is that is true if it's from a lover no and you know it's gonna be very thoughtful you know what i got my mother -in -law they spent the first christmas with us because you guys have been together what 16 years 18 total 18 yeah married 13 okay and they're amazing i couldn't ask for better in -laws I got her a 12 -inch dildo.

[67] Oh, wonderful.

[68] Yes.

[69] And I knew in front of the whole family.

[70] In front of the whole family, and she opened it up, and it was a joyous occasion to watch her face.

[71] And especially my father -in -law Brooks, who lost his mind.

[72] It was, could you describe, like, in what fashion did he lose his mind?

[73] Oh, he was laughing his ass.

[74] He was actually laughing harder than she was in the beginning.

[75] Oh, yeah.

[76] She was a bit stunned.

[77] She didn't know.

[78] She didn't quite.

[79] She had to like internalize it for a second of like, what is this?

[80] What's happened here?

[81] What's happening?

[82] And Brooke started to laugh so hard and then she lost it.

[83] Oh, but the great thing about Anne, my mother -in -law, is that she then proceeded to create an elf on the shelf for the dildo.

[84] So the dildo then became, it was hiding around the house.

[85] For all of Christmas, she created an adult elf on the shelf.

[86] So let's just right out of the gates go.

[87] Some people would go like, well, why are there two people on the show and their siblings, Oliver and Kate?

[88] And it's because you guys have a podcast that you're doing, a brother and sister podcast.

[89] Is the theme overall, like siblings, or it can go anywhere?

[90] It kind of goes anywhere.

[91] I mean, we mostly are interviewing siblings, but then we're sort of tackling subjects that we're interested in or that we might disagree, certain things that we might have disagreements about.

[92] trying to talk about you grow up with the same family, you grow up with the same circumstances, but then how do you become such different people?

[93] It is curious.

[94] The one thing I immediately thought of when I thought of you guys doing this is you have an added layer.

[95] Like I talk about my mom on here a lot, but she's giving me her blessing.

[96] And then my dad is dead, so there's really no issue there.

[97] But you guys have the added layer of like both parents are newsworthy.

[98] If you say your dad kicked your ass, that's going to be a headline.

[99] Yeah, that's why there's good, you know, editing and, you know, because we honestly try not to filter anything.

[100] We will say whatever we want to say or have to say or feel like we need to say.

[101] And then, you know, there are certain instances, I think, where, you know, you have to protect your family.

[102] Well, I also think that it's also there's being honest and then there's like, you know, laying out your dirty laundry.

[103] Which to me I'm not a fan of anyway.

[104] It's like I'm not a big fan of like, oh, let's start, you know, shitslinging everywhere for the sake of an interesting.

[105] conversation.

[106] Like, I think we protect our privacy, but at the same time, we're very truthful about our experiences growing up.

[107] Yeah, because when I knew you guys were coming in here, right away, I have like three stories that I know.

[108] And I'm like, oh, my God, these stories must be told.

[109] But I often get in a weird situation where I'm really good friends with someone I interview.

[110] And I'm like, huh, I know so much about you.

[111] What stuff are we cool with bringing into the light and what aren't we?

[112] But of course, there's like three stories that I've found myself telling primarily about Kurt, of course, because what a story generator.

[113] Oh, my God, like him, Muskoka.

[114] Well, the good thing is, Kurt still doesn't know how to use the internet.

[115] Oh, wonderful.

[116] So there is really no shot of him listening to this.

[117] I have been an actor for 20 years.

[118] I think he's maybe seen two things that I've done.

[119] Sure.

[120] You know what I mean?

[121] Like, I don't think he will be tuning in.

[122] Pa once said the only time he ever knows of a new guy that I'm dating is when there's a TMZ guy.

[123] following him around.

[124] And he's like, oh, I don't know anything about this.

[125] And your dad has a couple really funny theories because he told me that had he not been married to your mom, he would have skated through life completely anonymous.

[126] Like, that's his actual theory.

[127] Which is crazy.

[128] He only gets recognized because he's with clothing.

[129] No, he doesn't.

[130] It's like this weird, like strange lack of self -awareness that he's not like this mega.

[131] Mega movie star that has accomplished so much and is a fucking badass in his own right.

[132] But there is a flip side because then Kurt sometimes gets hot and he goes, I'm fucking Kurt Russell.

[133] You know, I mean, he does have that side of him as well.

[134] So I think he uses one or the other to his advantage, you know, when he needs to use it.

[135] When the situation calls for it.

[136] Well, I've said since our tour of breakup that.

[137] Who broke up a hoop?

[138] For real, I don't remember.

[139] Well, I don't know.

[140] I think we just parted ways.

[141] It was just sort of a mutual -esque.

[142] We were in different places in our life.

[143] Oh, yeah.

[144] I think.

[145] For sure.

[146] First of all, very, very fun.

[147] Very memorable, wonderful, fun experience.

[148] Number two, when thinking about like, well, this may come up, what is my summation of it?

[149] And I guess I decided I'll really only take responsibility for my stuff.

[150] That's really all I decided I can do.

[151] Sure.

[152] Yeah.

[153] What else can you do?

[154] That's all anyone can do.

[155] Yeah.

[156] So my things probably that were very hard for me was I felt very less than around you quite often.

[157] Oh, God.

[158] I think we all do.

[159] I mean, especially Kurt.

[160] We only follow him if she's got a new boyfriend.

[161] Yeah, I think I was just in the point where I was not going to get hired for movies anymore.

[162] I had a bunch that didn't work and I'm like I don't fucking know what's next and you were at that time making the most you ever made and having the most opportunity and I felt very much like fuck I don't know what I'm doing I'm following this person around as they do things I wish I were doing it was just a rough period for me anyways and then I felt all kinds of inadequacy in that position how much do I love dax I know the the honesty you know I you know I you said something really interesting when we were dating and you were right, which is like, and it's funny, I just brought this up with Danny because I did something that I recalled.

[163] Danny's her boyfriend, by the way.

[164] Danny's, yeah.

[165] And I did something and I went, oh my God, because Dax used to say it drove him nuts is I'd always say what, but I heard him.

[166] And he's like, I know you heard me. I know you heard me, but you're asking me to repeat myself again.

[167] And I'd be like, well, no, I actually don't know what you're what you said but then I was like no I do know what he just said I don't know why I'm and I did it the other day with Danny and I went hmm and I was like oh my god dax and I looked at Danny and Danny just repeated I go honey do I do that a lot he's like oh yeah you do it all the time and I was like why don't you ever tell me that I do that and he goes because it doesn't bother me oh there we go and I thought that's really interesting because and then I told him a story I would just to drive you crazy I went straight to when we were breaking up You talked to Chris and you kind of gave him My complaints about the relationship And Chris goes It just sounds to me like he doesn't like your personality Oh Well I felt like your personality He did like each other's personality But you also said that You really wanted like a we In your life And that you felt that It was just about me Well I felt like I hooked my caboose to like a speeding locomotive, which by the way, circumstance called for.

[168] You had a child.

[169] I didn't.

[170] So that makes me infinitely more flexible.

[171] Now that I have children, I see the whole thing through a different lens.

[172] And yet you had money -making opportunities that you could not not take.

[173] There was just a lot going on.

[174] It was like the apex of busyness.

[175] It was timing.

[176] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[177] But just timing.

[178] I mean, I want to get them straight here.

[179] And also the personality issue, clearly.

[180] It's just timing.

[181] Our personalities are super compatible.

[182] It seems like it.

[183] We lost our asses off.

[184] Yeah, I bet.

[185] It started as a joke.

[186] It literally started as a joke.

[187] Wait, we need to hear that part.

[188] Let's go through the whole timeline.

[189] You and I had our first conversation in the backyard of Toby McGuire's house.

[190] Oh, yes.

[191] We were looking out over the city.

[192] The house was so nice.

[193] We both recognized that we didn't have houses that nice.

[194] And we started talking.

[195] And within the first five sentences of us meeting each other, we told each other how we had in the bank.

[196] Oh, my God.

[197] I remember this.

[198] Oh, wow.

[199] That's fucking right.

[200] I remember this.

[201] So not surprised that was what happened.

[202] And I was like, oh, this is a real dude.

[203] Like, this is a dude from Michigan.

[204] Everyone's not crazy weird about money.

[205] Like, hey.

[206] Yeah, like, I'm kind of doing okay, I guess.

[207] I'm not, I can't buy this house.

[208] What are you doing?

[209] I think you had like 70 grand in the bank.

[210] And I'm like, I think that's exactly what I have in the bank.

[211] And it was just a fast pass to becoming buddies.

[212] That's funny.

[213] But it's interesting.

[214] I'm still like that in that I don't know why people get so uptight about money and talking about money or how much they make.

[215] When I'm doing TV shows, I'm asking all the cast, like, how much you make it?

[216] And they're like, are we getting paid?

[217] I'm like, that's cool.

[218] I make this much.

[219] And they're like, okay.

[220] Well, I can say that.

[221] when I did parenthood, I made myself a mental promise.

[222] I would not find out what anyone else made.

[223] Because I was like, I think I should probably be making a little bit more, but it's plenty of money to go say lines in front of a camera.

[224] If I find out my child, who's is this his first acting jobs, making twice as much as me, it might ruin the experience.

[225] So I don't want to know.

[226] And it turned out I was much happier, never knowing what anyone made.

[227] So I also see that with coworkers.

[228] Yeah, yeah.

[229] But anyways, I would say you and I kind of fell hard.

[230] And we started playing poker a lot together.

[231] I'm trying to remember who the first person that, like, mentioned Dax, was it you?

[232] To you?

[233] Yeah.

[234] I don't know.

[235] In my memory, you guys were just all of a sudden started dating and then I have the perfect memory because there was a huge status imbalance.

[236] So I remember every detail of it.

[237] So we had played poker three dozen times.

[238] So one that you were there.

[239] Oh, the poker.

[240] You came to poker.

[241] Oh, yes.

[242] And I gave you the platinum.

[243] package.

[244] I gave you 130 % of everything I had to give.

[245] I don't know if I won any hands that night.

[246] I wasn't paying attention.

[247] I was like the almost famous girls here.

[248] She's cute.

[249] And here's my light on the brightest setting.

[250] And you were, you were laughing a lot.

[251] I don't know whether you like me not, but you were laughing a lot.

[252] And then you invited Bree and I to your Christmas party.

[253] Based on that poker experience.

[254] So we went to your Christmas party.

[255] You were still married to Chris.

[256] Yes, I remember.

[257] And then at the party, again, just like outgoing flirtiness, you were married.

[258] I was in a totally different place.

[259] Yeah, we were in a totally different place.

[260] I wasn't plotting anything, but I certainly wanted your approval.

[261] And if I thought you thought I was cute, all the better.

[262] So I, again, gave you probably about 97 % there.

[263] Then about a year went by, or maybe, I don't really know.

[264] Yeah, longer.

[265] Well, that was a Christmas party.

[266] About two years.

[267] I don't think it was that one.

[268] Yeah, because I started dating someone before I dated you.

[269] Oh, right.

[270] Remember?

[271] Yes, we remember.

[272] And we won't say.

[273] No, I remember.

[274] Jack Nicholson.

[275] So anyways, I...

[276] The one that got away.

[277] Then Brill invited me to go to dinner in Malibu, and you were at the dinner.

[278] And at the dinner, there were a bunch of paparazzi outside who had followed you because you had just broken up with Jack Nicholson.

[279] And while we were there, we said, wouldn't it be funny if we came out holding hands?

[280] and I was your new boyfriend.

[281] We were just pals.

[282] Well, then we added, well, wouldn't it be great if her new boyfriend didn't wear a shirt at Nobu?

[283] And so we did this.

[284] I almost peed in my pants.

[285] It was so funny.

[286] We exited Nobu.

[287] I was shirtless.

[288] We were holding hands.

[289] I was acting mad at the paparazzi that they were invading our privacy.

[290] And then that just led to somehow hanging out.

[291] That's great.

[292] Then I wanted to have sex with them.

[293] Right.

[294] Who wouldn't after a stuntman?

[295] It was like the perfect move.

[296] Wow.

[297] Well, really what happened, there's another thing there is that I had gone to an amateur bodybuilding contest.

[298] You remember this?

[299] Yes.

[300] In Culver City.

[301] And I had bought a string bikini top and it said, I'm not on Roy's, thanks for asking.

[302] And then I think the first time I ever came over, I was wearing that tank top.

[303] Unreal.

[304] And who can resist a dude, tank top that says, no, I'm not on Roy's, thanks for asking.

[305] How long were you guys actually together?

[306] Three months.

[307] Oh, that's it?

[308] I think so.

[309] It wasn't longer than that?

[310] It feels longer, but it is.

[311] It feels like already had a long.

[312] Wow.

[313] I didn't realize.

[314] Now, we were longer than three months.

[315] No?

[316] I thought that was longer.

[317] I don't know.

[318] I think it's three months, but I could totally be wrong.

[319] Three months committed?

[320] Well, that's another fun.

[321] So the reason that relationship, although ill -fated ultimately, was super beneficial to me, was one, I had never been monogamous.

[322] Ever.

[323] That's right.

[324] And you were like, hey, I know you've got a whole thing that you're into open relationship.

[325] but I'm not.

[326] Oh, that's right.

[327] That's right.

[328] You were Mr. Open relationship guy.

[329] Shit is all flooding back to me. Oh, yeah.

[330] And I was like, that would never, that's just not going to work.

[331] That was a, I was envious.

[332] That was a non -starter.

[333] That was a non -starter.

[334] So I, A, was monogamous for the first time in 15 years or something.

[335] So that was great.

[336] And then two, I literally learned how to say, when you do this, I'm scared and I feel this way.

[337] badly forced me to do, because you and I had fights that I really hadn't had with people.

[338] Yeah, we did have fights.

[339] We had some big old barn burners.

[340] Wait, wait, wait, what were some of these fights about?

[341] I'm curious, because I wasn't privy to these fights.

[342] Honestly, I wasn't giving Dax what he needed.

[343] And I was making choices that were not relationship focused.

[344] But again, we were a month in.

[345] I don't know that you should have.

[346] Yeah, but it was, it was a lot fast.

[347] You're taking a lot of the blame for these fights.

[348] Look, if I was to, I have to say, I was not ready for what Dax.

[349] We were selling.

[350] I was out of a relationship that was really hardcore.

[351] Then Dax and I, it was so much fun.

[352] And then it just got hot fast.

[353] It got connective.

[354] And I wasn't prepared.

[355] I was making a movie.

[356] I had writer.

[357] I wasn't in a place.

[358] You were 20, let's say also, you were 28.

[359] 20 yeah yeah I was like and I was 32 so you already had a kid you had just got divorced I was 32 going whoever I date next has to be the one I want to have kids I want to spend three years with somebody to know that I'm gonna have kids and then I want to have kids so I was definitely in a different place I also feel like I had a little bit of that it might like whatever timing and whatever that is like I feel a little bit like I was so backed out that like when he met his now wife which was not long after we broke up.

[360] No, no. Yeah.

[361] That it was like gung -ho time for you.

[362] I mean, you really, you know, were ready for a real relationship.

[363] Yeah, yeah.

[364] I was ready to have kids and do it.

[365] But so I would call Bradley.

[366] I don't even remember what a specific fight would be, but I'd be like, I'm coming back to the city.

[367] It's like, aren't you on your way out to Cape Cod or wherever the fuck you were Boston or something?

[368] No, I'm coming back.

[369] He's why?

[370] She's a fucking bitch.

[371] She said blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[372] And he'd go, wow, if she said that to me, I'd feel really kind of like emasculated and I'd feel scared that she wasn't going to.

[373] Like, he would say all these things that I was incapable of acknowledging that I really did feel.

[374] And I was like, oh my God, that is how I feel.

[375] He would translate your anger and your words into psychology.

[376] And how he processes stuff, which I didn't have practice at yet.

[377] And so what was genius about is he didn't go.

[378] Oh, I bet you feel really scared and that this and that happened because I would have been like, no, I don't, you know.

[379] He just said he would feel that way.

[380] And then through that, I was like, yeah, I feel that way too.

[381] And he's like, you got to go tell her that.

[382] And I'm like, I'm not going to fucking go tell her that.

[383] That's like basically, I felt so, I can't use the word vulnerable, but weak.

[384] It felt very weak to go, when you say this, I feel really scared, blah, blah.

[385] And I did it once.

[386] And you were like, I don't think I've ever heard a guy say something like that and i was like oh my god the reaction is positive that i'm not a wimp that that was strong so for me really like positively confirmed that that's how to do it it's not an easy thing though for men to be for men general to be vulnerable i'm i've been going through this all my life and i've had a bit of a breakthrough with this place that i went to i went to a place called the hoffman institute which was fucking phenomenal for my life it's basically breaking down in a week you're there for a week no phones nothing you are off the grid with 40 other people it's about parental patterns it's about the adoption of parental patterns negative love patterns that you have you know adopted at the age of an infant unconsciously and how they have affected your life and you can go back into generations basically and this is part of the reason why your great great -great -grandfather there's a similarity between some of the emotional scars that you all have you know and it's about breaking that i mean this is a whole other conversation but i was dealing a lot with vulnerability and it was a different kind of vulnerability it was about expressing love it was about me being able to look at my sister and say i fucking love you you're so important to me in my life and i don't know what i'd do without you if i felt that it would hurt me to say it i would go into a shell and with erin my wife it's like she doesn't even know the half of what I'm capable of giving her and that's what was an amazing thing coming back was your fear that if you say that to somebody and you give them that that that that you are now at risk or vulnerable to them now owning you or misusing you or 100 % yeah and that's all family or origin stuff I mean look we we're like yeah we're like the poster children for abandoned children.

[387] And then we have this very blessed, privileged life.

[388] So you sort of, as you grow older, you kind of tell yourself like, I'm an asshole if I allow myself to really kind of go there with like, oh, I was abandoned.

[389] And, you know, I can just pick up my bootstraps and keep going.

[390] We don't need to feel traumatized by this.

[391] We're lucky kids.

[392] And then you get older and you start hitting these roadblocks and you realize, oh, I actually have to feel something that I've never allowed myself to feel based on my circumstance.

[393] Yes.

[394] Well, that's what was interesting about going here is that I was honestly one of the more healthy people.

[395] I mean, you have majorly abused people who are here.

[396] You've got...

[397] Like unraveling severe trauma.

[398] Oh, severe trauma.

[399] One person had to leave.

[400] You also have major addicts and people who have been abandoned in ways that we could never even imagine.

[401] Yeah.

[402] But that didn't take away from what I got out of this experience because It's an individual experience.

[403] Well, suffering is actually a subjective.

[404] I mean, the truth that you can look at suffering and you can see it differently.

[405] You can try to gauge what that is for an individual.

[406] But one person's suffering isn't another person suffering.

[407] It's the same thing with happiness.

[408] But what's nice is expressing that suffering collectively in a group of 40 people.

[409] The family that I have gained in this experience has been incredible, the catharsis that we all went through together.

[410] Well, do you talk about your sobriety a lot?

[411] Oh, all the whole time.

[412] Right, so you understand.

[413] So this podcast is an AA meeting for people who aren't alcoholics.

[414] It sucks.

[415] You have to be a fucking junkie to go have this experience.

[416] Like, I kind of want this to be that experience with that.

[417] Well, it's interesting because sibling revelry, it started as what sort of Kate was talking about, which was our sibling perspective.

[418] Once we started interviewing these guests, the psychology that came out.

[419] perspective is everything because at the half of what that was sincere you thought look how good her radar is you see that well were you I just know I literally I think I made a weird movement towards my coffee and she interpreted as like me bailing out but I wasn't but his but his eyes got bigger too yeah yeah I was compensating this excited cute face I was compensating because it looked like oh I don't want to think I'm bored drinking coffee so I made my eyes extra big.

[420] I'm still listening.

[421] And then they're probably just looking insane.

[422] So, oh, perspective.

[423] It's like the same thing as like us looking back at relationship.

[424] Like you can have one circumstance and two completely different perspective.

[425] Oh, God.

[426] You know, that's what I love about sitting and talking to other siblings is because you'll sit there and you'll talk about one thing that happened.

[427] Like there was one person that we interviewed.

[428] They're talking about their father.

[429] Two completely different perspectives on their father.

[430] Raised the same.

[431] The same, but the perspectives was night and day.

[432] And it was so interesting.

[433] What one brother got from the father was this sense of security and safety.

[434] And what the other one was the exact opposite.

[435] And if you guys had, I'm sure you have, where my brother and I'll start talking about something that should be very memorable, like us watching my mom get her ass kicked by my second stepdad.

[436] And I'm like, oh yeah, I remember sitting on the stairs and the lower level watching.

[437] He goes, no, no, we were at the other apartment.

[438] I'm like, no, we weren't.

[439] I can see the carpet.

[440] I can, like, he's like, no. And I'm like, that is so fucking dramatic.

[441] How on earth are they ever doing, like, police recountings of crimes and all that?

[442] Like, just didn't know he and I were in this most significant event in an entirely different location.

[443] I think that's why a lot of therapists or psychiatrists, they talk about process versus story and content.

[444] Because, like, people's stories and content shift and moves.

[445] is why I think, like, what we're doing right now.

[446] And also we're actors, we're storytellers.

[447] We love breaking shit down, right?

[448] So connecting is everything.

[449] But then when you start getting into the story of something, you're not going to connect.

[450] I'm Malcolm Gladwell's new book is about how fallible memory is and how it works.

[451] Like how you layer on and how it just is a story that, you know, just we're very, very bad at actually memorizing everything that happened.

[452] calling it.

[453] It's scary.

[454] Yeah, that's why it's like, it's not necessarily about the details.

[455] For Oliver and I, like, we actually had like super traumatizing these acts.

[456] I like don't remember half of the things that we talk about.

[457] There are certain moments I remember and I don't remember if it's in like, in our childhood.

[458] In our childhood.

[459] Like, I don't remember if it was at the beach or if it was in England.

[460] Like, I don't remember where the fuck we were.

[461] But I do remember like, I'll have very sort of visceral moments where I'll see Oliver's face like really sad.

[462] Let me ask you a question.

[463] What is your most traumatic childhood memory?

[464] I mean there was a lot.

[465] I had a lot of, I mean, you know, if I again was not to go into story but to go into feeling, I think one of the most traumatic things growing up for me was me not quite understanding painful experiences but seeing them through you because you were older and could understand.

[466] understand them.

[467] So like looking to him to see how are we supposed to be processing this.

[468] Yeah.

[469] Yeah.

[470] And not a good example to look to.

[471] No, not.

[472] I'm like terrible.

[473] Which is why I always felt like I had to be your protector, right?

[474] In a sense.

[475] Just for the record, you're three years older.

[476] Yeah.

[477] Just about two.

[478] And then also backstory if you don't, if you're not all up to date.

[479] Y 'all's dad, Bill, left when Kate, you were 18 months old and you were four and a half.

[480] Yeah, four.

[481] Yeah.

[482] Right.

[483] And then what age did Did Kurt come into the pitcher?

[484] Three, I was six.

[485] Six and a half.

[486] Okay, so that just brings everyone up to school.

[487] Yeah, God, it was a crazy experience for me, having Kurt come into my life, who was such a man. Oh, God, the manliest man. And I was so not, you know, I was just a puddle.

[488] You were shy.

[489] Well, you weren't as a, you were goofy and you were.

[490] I used humor and my goofiness to sort of cover a lot of things.

[491] You had anxiety.

[492] Oh, yeah.

[493] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[494] You guys, I just looked to my right.

[495] Well, you know, it's funny.

[496] I was wondering if you were going to notice it.

[497] That's been hanging up since we started.

[498] Would you date, Dax?

[499] Resounding, resounding no. Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[500] We've all been there.

[501] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[502] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[503] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[504] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[505] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[506] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[507] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[508] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[509] What's up, guys?

[510] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[511] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[512] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[513] And I don't mean just friends.

[514] I mean the likes of Amy Pollard.

[515] Kelle Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[516] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[517] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[518] Yeah, so the childhood drama, I was, you know, I had my moment that really sort of defined the divorce for me. And that was when my mother was backing out of the house that my parents used to live in.

[519] And my dad is running after the car in a rage.

[520] and it was in a station wagon much like your own.

[521] I mean, for real, it was like that.

[522] And mom is screaming, and I'm in the middle of the back seat, and I see my dad running at me with his red face, and it's a steep driveway, and lining the driveway is literally a white picket fence.

[523] And she lost control going in reverse and smashed through the white picket fence.

[524] That's such a wonderful...

[525] Yeah, the allegory.

[526] I mean, and it was just...

[527] I can still see it.

[528] see it it was i don't remember any of this oh it's so gnarly in that moment when dad's running at you are you a scared or are you be going i've let my dad down i'm deserting my dad in no no i was just fear you know interestingly enough my dad and i at this point in my life we have somewhat a semblance of a relationship let now we've never had one before now it's mainly over text honestly it's because i made a post i did a post on instagram that was my dark sense of humor on father's day and it was an old picture of my sister and I and my dad when times were good yeah and the white picket fence was standing proudly and I said this was after that but no no because we had a good four or five years of you know visiting visiting and it was working out and then all went to shit but I posted a nice picture and I said happy abandonment day oh wow that is funny though it was good and a little passive it was very passive a great I called Oliver.

[529] I was like, what are you doing?

[530] Oh, because what happens is whenever I do something that's outrageous, Kate's the one who catches the heat because she's super famous.

[531] I'm always like, what the fuck?

[532] I'm so out of this.

[533] He went on a talk show and he's like, they're dead to me. Oh, boy.

[534] And then I wrote him a text.

[535] I got his number and wrote him a long text that was very sort of stern.

[536] not you know apologizing for any for anything yeah and then it's sort of to come or it just kind came around and then we had breakfast i didn't see him in 12 years we had breakfast you look a ton like him oh it's crazy like i saw a picture of him today when i was reading about you guys and i was like holy fuck yeah it's it's definitely strange i have a funny i have a different relationship to our father you know again and this is stuff we talk about a lot in our podcast but like for me it's like i don't know i went through this intensive three and a half years of like two days a week therapy sometimes two hours was this was the woman that you liked when we were dating no no this is a this man he actually he lives in miami for three months you guys that's a lot of information you guys know a lot about each other it was only three longer oh we must have known each other i'm only tipping the iceberg i'm playing my car yeah i'm sitting on ace a's and i'm acting like i'm king eight right now so for me my relationship with Bill, it's like through my three and a half years of therapy that was like all about I have to break this pattern that I have that obviously comes out in the relationships that I'm in.

[537] And I just was able to forgive him.

[538] I realized that a relationship with him is not something that I was interested in having.

[539] But I love him.

[540] I don't hold any animosity.

[541] I really recognize that it was whatever his inability to sort of connect with us was coming from a really painful place and no one picks that version of no this is the Hoffman experience that i had with my dad yeah and this is why i had a personal catharsis in how i feel about him versus how i felt about him prior yeah he had his own challenges and they were real and they were hard and i have so much sympathy and forgiveness for them.

[542] That being said, I don't have a trustful relationship with him.

[543] So I don't choose to continue that pattern.

[544] Yeah.

[545] Yeah.

[546] And Oliver is different.

[547] I think being the son, too, you know.

[548] Yeah, I didn't have a real base or foundation.

[549] Well, you're going to have what I assume I had, which is I have no memory of living with my dad.

[550] He loved when I was three.

[551] My brother had eight years with him.

[552] So he had this fondness for him and this like inner love for him that it took towards the end of his life that I could get to.

[553] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[554] But, you know, I mean, our dad's father left the house when he was five years old, never returned.

[555] My dad didn't have the tools to become a better or different or more evolved person.

[556] I mean, this is what he was dealt, and he was unable to sort of draw any other cards.

[557] You know what I mean?

[558] Like - Also, nobody talked about this shit openly.

[559] I mean, generationally, like, now all of a sudden, everybody's, the research is in.

[560] And everybody is sort of like, yeah, talking about realizing that the more we talk about it, the better, the changes.

[561] I think the whole goal is like, you're trying to understand why you do the things you do.

[562] And you have a list of things you don't want to do and you have a list of things you hope to do more of.

[563] And you start wondering, like, why am I doing that thing, you know?

[564] That was another crazy breakthrough I had when we were dating is we got in a fight over the phone when you were in Boston.

[565] And I had never connected these dots.

[566] We got in this fight.

[567] We hung up the phone.

[568] and I had this like carnal visceral emotion like horniness and I was going to text this girl that I used to hook up with and I was like starting to text this girl and for the first time ever I was like huh that's curious I got uncontrollably horny after having a fight and I was like oh my body takes care of itself like this is a distraction this is a way I can feel good right now I feel powerless and I feel little and this activity I do makes me feel powerful and holy fuck my brain's that complicated and outsmarting me and i'm like you that well sexual self -soothing sex was has always been that yeah but this is for so many people they just don't talk about it i mean like you obviously coming from a a those patterns funnel themselves and other things that's we talked about that like sex i mean what a great dose of dopamine yeah to get when you're kind of feeling a little out of control right easy it's a great way to regulate the inside of something from the outside.

[569] One of the things that my therapist did with me because I would just always find myself in a relationship.

[570] Whether I wanted it or not, my therapist basically said, done, you're done.

[571] No more relationship.

[572] You can't flirt.

[573] I was like, come on.

[574] I want to flirt a little bit.

[575] So fun.

[576] No, no, no flirting, no nothing, no texting.

[577] If a guy texts, you don't text back for a year.

[578] I think you were talking about on Stern and I was like, I was trying to imagine you.

[579] you know, just flowing through life, you know, no flirting.

[580] No flirting.

[581] I'm so fertatious.

[582] I flirt with men.

[583] So it was really interesting.

[584] And then what did you find out?

[585] What I found out was it's sort of like I think how they take people through like the love and sex, you know, where they have to like kind of shut all of that off for a second and sit with the uncomfortable moments.

[586] And then about three months in, some tech started to pop up.

[587] Pop up.

[588] And I was like, oh, shit, that, oh, fuck.

[589] Then I got down.

[590] I got depressed.

[591] It was uncomfortable.

[592] I didn't want to go out.

[593] I didn't want to, like, do anything.

[594] I found no mojo.

[595] I had no sexual feelings.

[596] I just kind of went so inside of myself.

[597] And I used to say to my therapist, I'm just feeling unattractive.

[598] I don't feel.

[599] And we would go through why.

[600] We would go through, you know.

[601] Then all of these things in my life started popping up, like, Changes of perception on certain people in my family, understanding triggers with exes, realizing all the shit that I do, not, like, really not being distracted, looking at how I am as a parent and being like, I've failed in some places that I need to, like, fix and not making me feel bad.

[602] All of a sudden, like, everything started refocusing.

[603] It's like an identity shatterer, right?

[604] I mean, it's a big component of our identity.

[605] to be attractive to get people's approval to be desired like completely yeah validation oh love it female validation oh can't get enough of it me too but then i had like the what you would say like the break the cathartic breakthrough which ended in a fetal position of feeling something that i'd never released oh i want that and i remember it was about a good hour of like bawling i consider myself an intelligent person, but I can't believe I'd never been able to actually feel what I'd known for so long.

[606] Yeah, right?

[607] And then I was happy and I was happy with my kids and I had a routine and I didn't need a relationship and I wasn't interested in calling guys back.

[608] And then I was allowed to flirt again.

[609] And I realized that I'd had no real interest in flirting the way that I did.

[610] And the guys that were interested in me were not guys that I was necessarily interested in.

[611] Well, that's what's so fucked up is like I have a female friend that's in SLA and so in this one case a co -worker of her like text her something kind of inappropriate and I said look the real answer is it feels flattering but the person knows you're married so what they've assessed is that you have low enough self -esteem that you need the validation even though you're married I'm like it's not really a compliment it's like I'm a scumbag I see that you might be a scumbag let's connect like you you attract people that are in a similar state of self -esteem I think that you are so it's like you're like you're like you're Yeah, if you're in the circus of everyone who's texting and flirting and all this shit, it's just self -perpetuating.

[612] It also takes a second for men especially, like up until you're about like 35 into that later 30s, everybody's just trying to figure it out.

[613] You know what I mean?

[614] And then when you have kids, if you're the kind of person that wants to get into it and you want the best for your kids, like you make shifts in the way that you are and you start looking at yourself differently so that you can give you.

[615] your kids that opportunity to be able to make those choices as they get older.

[616] Well, back to you being smart.

[617] I think you, like myself, are a victim sometimes of being smart because, well, A, there's a saying in A .A. that you can't be too dumb for A .A., but you can be too smart for A .A. And I lost a million arguments to you, which was a very foreign feeling to me. Like, we would argue and be able to email or whatever.

[618] And then I got to the point where, like, I would just throw in the towel, which was totally new for me. And then I could see myself through you where it was like, you won this argument, but I don't feel any better.

[619] Like, I still feel scared and all these things.

[620] So you won, but I still feel like shit.

[621] And I was like, oh, all those arguments I won with previous girlfriends, I won them.

[622] I didn't address how they were feeling.

[623] I didn't make them feel safer.

[624] I didn't do any of that stuff.

[625] And I just think so many times your gifts can also be your like Achilles.

[626] Well, you were also the first healthy relationship I probably had ever had.

[627] Now, Chris, a love of my life.

[628] Yeah.

[629] Hands down.

[630] I mean...

[631] Something cosmic.

[632] Something seriously cosmic.

[633] And our life with Ryder, I've been the subject of his hatred.

[634] I've been this.

[635] But I always am just like, you know what?

[636] Love of my life.

[637] Your soulmates, yeah.

[638] Yeah.

[639] But I couldn't be with him.

[640] And it was unhealthy.

[641] Right.

[642] There were unhealthy aspects of our relationship that would never have allowed me to be able to be in that relationship.

[643] And then I honestly think you were the first person who had healthy patterns, that you were creating healthy patterns here, the way you journaled, the way you wanted to communicate, what you wanted from the relationship.

[644] Like, everything that you were doing was going towards a healthy relationship.

[645] And I was like...

[646] But have you always been on an evolutionary path?

[647] Meaning, like, you're always constantly evolving and you know that, and it's always about sort of bettering yourself, even if you're taking 10 steps backwards?

[648] I think sobriety was the...

[649] the turning point.

[650] I don't think like with Bree, I put in the amount of self -reflection that she certainly deserved.

[651] Right.

[652] And we had maybe like you and Chris, like we just fit in this great way that was very symbiotic and easy.

[653] We didn't fight.

[654] We didn't do any of those things.

[655] Because it didn't seem like something needed correcting.

[656] I wasn't going to go out of my way to correct it.

[657] But I think it's all from having to get sober.

[658] I think it's so evolved to have the recognition that someone is my soulmate and I can't be with them.

[659] Yeah.

[660] Like, Like, almost no one can do that.

[661] People say like with Chris and I too that it was like, oh, you were so young.

[662] And yeah, I was.

[663] But like it really, I mean, I still, I just love that man. Yeah.

[664] But there's just no way.

[665] I mean, and I think he probably feels the same way about me. Well, that, that reminds me of one of the times I felt inadequate or less than was like, you were telling me about y 'all's first date.

[666] And you're like, yeah, we took the Concord to Paris.

[667] And I'm like, well, no shit you fell in love.

[668] I'd fucking fall in love with anyone who took me on the Concord to Paris.

[669] Like, how are you even evaluating this?

[670] But Chris was the first, Chris made me feel unconditionally loved.

[671] I'd never felt that way before.

[672] I still know he loves me. He was my great teacher as well as Oliver for that in terms of men, of like, showing real.

[673] And you and Chris had the most romantic relationship.

[674] Well, they were back and forth to Paris.

[675] It really was like that.

[676] They were on the road with the black crows, more of the biggest bands at the time.

[677] And they're getting clothes, like, made for themselves.

[678] And then they're in, like, Paris, like, smoking cigarettes, and it's raining and drinking red wine.

[679] And they have a photographer, Darren, who's working with us now, who was just traveled with them everywhere and took photos of them, these beautiful photos.

[680] So, I mean, I was with Aaron at the time, and I was like, wow.

[681] Yeah.

[682] We're cool, but, like, this is.

[683] We need to step it up somehow.

[684] Well, you know a story I sometimes tell.

[685] You and Chris, who was the designer's house you went to?

[686] This is one of the best stories ever.

[687] Oh, Valentino.

[688] This makes me like him so much.

[689] Even though he, I don't think, again, in reflection, now that I have kids, if I saw my daughter on someone's shoulders, I go to their house and slit their throat.

[690] So I totally, whatever animosity had towards me, totally warranted.

[691] And I get it now.

[692] I didn't get it.

[693] You're like, hey, hey, Chris.

[694] Yeah.

[695] Well, I was like, wait, what are you talking?

[696] I love this little dude.

[697] and I love giving him fucking whatever you call that shoulder rides I think you for rider was like he was so little it was like my really big strong friend yeah yeah yeah oh yeah I loved him it was so fun but yes it was a big mistake I shouldn't have ever been out in somewhere where you could get photograph with the kid on you anyways you guys went to who's designer you got invited this you've heard I've told you this story Monica yeah all right all right all right yeah all right yeah hit us with it really quick it's so good well first of all it was ben stiller he had done this photo shoot with anna winter it was a vogue it was this weird little place and somehow we're sitting there with valentino Anna winter me and ben and she says oh you must go to valentino's house and ben and i go oh okay and we were excited about it but it was just a strange it was a weird it was a little like yeah this is a strange grouping you know but but but and so we both had to go to our, you know, respective spouses and say, so we're going to Versailles tomorrow for dinner at Valentino's plays.

[698] And Chris was like, this was not what we were planning on doing in our one night in Paris.

[699] I'm like, it'll be great.

[700] It's Valentino.

[701] We have to go.

[702] Cut to.

[703] We drive an hour out.

[704] We get there.

[705] It's a mile long driveway.

[706] It's a perfectly manicured lawn.

[707] It's insane.

[708] There's literally like eight men waiting for the cars.

[709] It's just me, Chris and Ben Stiller and Christine.

[710] I mean, it's like you couldn't, you know, it was like the hillbillies coming to Versailles.

[711] They have white gloves, no joke, and they open the doors and we come out.

[712] And Valentino, there's like a moat over his chateau.

[713] And he's got these two beautiful nephews with him that are like wearing white linens.

[714] And he comes in his smoking jacket and he's like coming over the moat, you know.

[715] Hello.

[716] And we're like, oh, and all of a sudden, all of our voices change.

[717] You know, like, oh, hello, Valentina.

[718] And he's like, would you like to walk, you know, through the gardens?

[719] And we're like, of course.

[720] We always do.

[721] Ben, Ben, was like, literally no joke, which is one of the greatest moments of all time, was trying to relate.

[722] And we are in, like, we are in, like, I mean, these gardens have been growing since, like, the 13th century.

[723] I mean, it's like, you know.

[724] know he's telling this story about oh my god you know there was a red rose in the garden once and like none of us know what the fuck he was taught we're like i remember saying to valentine like what's what's wrong with a red rose he goes oh god he goes there's no red roses in real gardens because it's like i don't know it's some kind of current i don't know what it anyway so we're trying to relate to this then then starts going he's like i'm actually redoing my landscape Because this is really inspirational on Outpost It's Outpost Oh, it's so deeply funny It's an herb garden Oh my God, there's like a deer There's like it's so now And then Valentino feeds Ben a blackberry Which was even funnier because Ben hates berries Yeah he's like the berries Are so good A Ben you know try the berry And Ben's like Oh no You know it was like that moment And it's like oh And then the nephew's like, you know Oh, sometimes I come to the garden And I like to bring my guitar Like trying to relate to Chris Sure Chris goes, yeah, I like to Because I'd like to come here Sing the blues, you know I ain't got nothing I ain't gotta die And he starts singing this like blues song To this kid Now we go in, we start eating It's this table's insane It's got like sterling silver Everything and there's You know, there's serving And, but you realize slowly that Valentino, he's funny.

[725] And he really took a liking to Chris and he looked at his jacket.

[726] And he goes, what is this?

[727] And he goes, it's Gucci.

[728] He goes, he's nice.

[729] So, like, he started having this little thing with Valentino.

[730] Chris is a dandy.

[731] You know, you can tell, like he looks like a homeless person.

[732] But then when you start looking closer, you realize everything's very placed and really nice, you know.

[733] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[734] But then we sit down and it's kind of quiet.

[735] It's a little awkward.

[736] There's a lull.

[737] There's a lull.

[738] I mean, it's like, okay, it's so formal that we didn't know what to do.

[739] Are there like forks clanking?

[740] Yeah, it's a little funny.

[741] The servant coughs.

[742] Chris just sits.

[743] And it's about, I'd say about a good two minutes of silence.

[744] And Chris goes, so, Valentino.

[745] And he goes, yes, Chris.

[746] He goes, I'm glad we could all be here because, look, I need to borrow $5 ,000.

[747] $5 ,000.

[748] It's the perfect number.

[749] Amazing number.

[750] Very few numbers would have worked as well because it could be real.

[751] Anything in the hundreds is obviously a joke.

[752] Right.

[753] Anything beyond that, again, is the posters.

[754] Five grand is just...

[755] And Ben started to love and Valentino laughed so hard and that was it.

[756] It was, it just, we had.

[757] the best night we had the best dinner it was so much fun and it ended up being one of the great stories slash moments yeah oh it's so good you've done some cool shit in your life i have i mean really cool i saw i turning 40 it was interesting everybody was like oh my god like isn't it weird to be and i'm like no i've done so much in two decades it's like but do you do you find that So I've got to do a trillion things I shouldn't have ever been able to do.

[758] And they were really fun.

[759] And then also I feel super grateful to have that rare, rare gift of all that indulgence to go.

[760] Oh, but I still feel the same way when I look in the mirror.

[761] It's not the shit that makes me feel good.

[762] It's not the stuff that gives me self -esteem.

[763] Because had I not gotten it, I'd still be buying into the fantasy.

[764] Like, well, if I just had this amount of money, I'd feel good.

[765] If I went to the fucking Patriots game and walked on the field like we did, I'd feel great.

[766] You know, I do for an hour.

[767] Well, it's fun.

[768] There's no, like, there's no foundation under that.

[769] But you've built that.

[770] I, like, really go there with things.

[771] Mom always said, like, I jump in the deep end.

[772] Like, and that's emotionally.

[773] That's in the things that I'm doing.

[774] That's in my businesses.

[775] Like, I like to go deep.

[776] It's sometimes why I think friends don't like hanging out with me is because they know they have to, like, go there.

[777] with me a little bit on like the real things that are happening in life i can have a blast and go hard over here and have a blast with surface things yeah but i'm always wanting to go to that place that's a little bit more yeah it's probably much different for me because i grew up in michigan on a dirt road looking at all this and i had a fantasy of what all this felt like and they just didn't feel like what i thought it was going to which is not bad it's just i i feel lucky that i got to find out Well, those weren't the things that made me like myself.

[778] Well, it's also, I honestly, there is this weird world inside that, like, people are friends, a certain people, and it's very political, and you have to show up to these things.

[779] And it's, like, I'm not attached to that in any way.

[780] And I think because I grew up here, seeing that.

[781] With all of it.

[782] Right.

[783] Like, to me, that is not a measure of success.

[784] Yeah.

[785] To me, like, going off and living in Paris and, like, having a real experience or my experiences while I'm shooting something that's where I just it is this whole weird political world that we live in Hollywood can feel very empty yeah my shit comes from my family like I thought leaving LA going to Colorado experiencing the mountains being away from everything but can we back up for one second because you by any other measure have an incredibly enviable career like me and Michigan looking at Oliver Hudson right was on a TV show for seven years and been in many TV shows, I want Oliver Hudson's life.

[786] I try to remind myself.

[787] It's almost impossible, right?

[788] Because we are just, we are comparison machines.

[789] Well, exactly.

[790] And this is a huge part of my neurosis, which I've been working on and going through, which is that comparison, which is a fucking death pattern.

[791] I mean, especially in my situation.

[792] Your mom's a legend, your stepdad's a legend.

[793] Stars everywhere.

[794] His sister's approaching legendary status.

[795] And then now I've got my little brother who's fucking, he hurts his groin playing hockey.

[796] and he goes, yeah, I'm going to be an actor.

[797] And he's phenomenal.

[798] And then he's like, Marvel and fucking this, and it's sick actor.

[799] And I'm like, I'm going to move to Colorado.

[800] No, but it's really been a beautiful thing for me and in my growth as a man, as someone who wants to be in this business, and having to sort of recognize these things, recognize the comparisons that I make that are just so outrageous.

[801] trying to live in my truth and live in my happiness yeah and at this point in my life especially being in the mountains and especially having this time has created such stability in my self and my wife in our relationship in our family yeah and now i'm like okay money doesn't buy happiness but i'm happy so fucking back up the brink's truck sure sure sure sure you know what i don't not want it right it's just not the thing i thought it was no i totally get that and there are two different perspectives on that and that's my sort of situation right now it's like things are great i want to focus on my career now and get my shit going and i just want money to be comfortable not to make me happy just to be like yeah no worries i think too again this goes back to why the sibling thing is really interesting because you know when you do have a close connection to your siblings like you see things objectively you can witness things that of course you know they don't want to confront at times And Oliver could be looking and having comparisons as an actor to the success of like our family.

[802] I'm looking at Oliver going, do you realize what you have that none of us do?

[803] You're the storyteller that you are, the writer.

[804] I mean, he's such an unbelievable writer.

[805] I mean, it's crazy.

[806] Overwhelmed.

[807] Like when he was young, he used to win like weird a world.

[808] They'd be like, Ali, you're a really great poet.

[809] You should like enter a contest.

[810] And he'd been like the number one national junior.

[811] And he's like, oh, right, whatever.

[812] I mean, I think sometimes when you suffer from certain kind of sabotaging behaviors, you don't go after the things you're great at because it's terrifying.

[813] Again, I think you can be a victim of your intelligence, and I think you can be a victim of your charm.

[814] Like, you can float through anything.

[815] You're so fucking right.

[816] It's just what I've gotten by on my whole life.

[817] Drives me. My whole life.

[818] If I look like you, I'd be doing the same thing.

[819] I mean, he's handsome and charming.

[820] God, it's handsome a day of long.

[821] You know, I watch it as a sister.

[822] I'm like, he's so fucking, what a fucking asshole.

[823] How does he do it?

[824] No, but that's a great analysis.

[825] I've never even thought about that, but you're not wrong.

[826] I mean, I've gotten through life just sort of, hey, I can figure it out.

[827] I'll figure it out.

[828] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[829] Well, and I wonder, you know, in the midst of all that, like, the comparison stuff, Have you gotten the same pleasure out of having kids that I have in the sense that it's the first thing I've attached my identity to that's real?

[830] Mm -hmm.

[831] Like not writer, director, actor, fuck comedian, all these things that are, someone else can potentially decide whether I'm those things.

[832] But the dad thing is like, oh, I'm a fucking dad for life now.

[833] That's a real thing.

[834] I was born to be a father.

[835] It's my favorite thing to do.

[836] He's the number one priority over my career, over everything.

[837] It's literally this is it.

[838] This is all I care about.

[839] I mean, not all, but it's about being with my kids, but it's also about just making sure they're good human beings.

[840] School, fine, whatever.

[841] I just want them to be good humans.

[842] And when you talk about identity, there's a danger, though, and I fell into this trap.

[843] I did this show called Nashville for two years, and I, and Wilder was going into first grade.

[844] And I was away a lot going back and forth.

[845] And he was a confident kid all through his life.

[846] something happened in first grade where he was just shattered anxiety ridden and he couldn't drop him off at school had to sit with him for an hour and Aaron did as well for two hours and what happened was I began to attach my identity with his sure and I started to feel these things and then it became this vicious circle because he's feeling me and I'm feeling him yeah and I was losing it I had I had panic attacks in Nashville I had to go on Lexa Pro I I was, like, fucked up.

[847] Yeah.

[848] And I, through therapy, we see the same therapist.

[849] Family therapist.

[850] You know, I had to learn to detach myself from him.

[851] Yeah.

[852] And the minute I did that, it took a few weeks, but we both started to heal a little bit, which was gnarly.

[853] Well, we were talking about this study that just came out, that John Hopkins used to treat children that were going through kind of developmental issues, right?

[854] And they would treat them with therapy.

[855] And then they decided, oh, let's try to also treat the parent at the same time.

[856] got some better results from that.

[857] And then someone said, let's just treat the parent and see what happens.

[858] And that went up like tenfold.

[859] Just because you're right, they're an extension of your own ego, which is super dangerous.

[860] Right.

[861] Well, you also think when you start going, like I started remembering all these things that defined my choices in life.

[862] Like, remember one thing in particular, I always go, why did I never sing?

[863] Because that is my great passion.

[864] Like music, singing, why did I never really do that?

[865] I was terrified of it.

[866] Why do I have such terrible stage fright?

[867] And it all boiled down to this, like, one moment that was so tiny.

[868] And I'm sure it wasn't that parent's fault.

[869] I'm sure they didn't realize how defining that was for me. It was literally career defining.

[870] I was really excited to share something that I had recorded.

[871] And that parent listened to a verse and then ejected the tape and said, oh, that's great.

[872] I was like, no, but the bridge is the best part you got to see.

[873] And I was, I must have been seven or eight.

[874] And just was like, no, I got it.

[875] I heard it.

[876] And that was it.

[877] And it was devastating.

[878] Yeah.

[879] So I was left with.

[880] Oh, we certainly do that stuff all the time.

[881] We don't even know.

[882] That's what I'm saying.

[883] And I didn't even realize it until I was doing all this therapy.

[884] Because by the way, your kid's like 70 ,000 things.

[885] So if they're like, Dad, watch me climb the roof.

[886] I don't know they're an aspiring mountain climber.

[887] I know.

[888] I'm killing their fucking speed -lunching dreams.

[889] Now I communicate differently I want to hear everything I want to know everything you want to do I'm just a little in my own head right now honey and I got to like tune out for one second and then we can hear this later Right I have guilt I mean all over that I've guilt because dad left And now I'm like fucking hyperparent Oh it's crazy That's really good like do it again You know maybe you should make a career out of this I'm here to support you I'm like a fucking crazy person Oliver is truly super dad Even to my kids.

[890] Really quick.

[891] When I was, again, reading about y 'all, which is weird to read about people you already know, it lists your like three baby daddies.

[892] This is back to you going like, well, I had a great life.

[893] I feel guilty acknowledging maybe I had some things that were not desirable and that I probably need to look at them.

[894] But I was just looking at the thing today.

[895] I've never added this up in my head because I don't even know about the third child.

[896] But three children with three musicians and dad was a musician who split.

[897] Right.

[898] And you're like, well, no matter how much you think you know what's going on in the moment, like you can't see the forest, the forest is right there in a sense.

[899] My intelligence has an answer to this.

[900] I can't wait to lose.

[901] No, I'm really musical.

[902] And I think like there is the connecting to dad in terms of music.

[903] But I think there is just also musical people do like being with musical people.

[904] Yeah, yeah.

[905] I like it.

[906] Is it like chicken or the egg?

[907] Do you love music?

[908] I don't know.

[909] I can't explain it unless you're somebody who feels music the way I feel music.

[910] But you can't deny genetics.

[911] I mean.

[912] That's what I mean.

[913] Yeah, so dad, you know, that's a part of you.

[914] My connection, every time I sing, every time I write, I see feel dad.

[915] To me, that's one of the great reasons why I didn't approach that as a career.

[916] But again, you used to sing with Chris.

[917] We sang, yeah.

[918] And you loved it.

[919] Yeah.

[920] When you were singing with Chris, do you think it felt that's something you and your dad should have done?

[921] Like, that's something if your dad had stuck around forever, you would have done with your dad.

[922] For sure.

[923] Yeah.

[924] If it was a good relationship.

[925] Yeah.

[926] I mean, yeah.

[927] But I also just think like there is just the musical gene.

[928] Yeah.

[929] Yeah.

[930] Which is not necessarily the psychological part of it, you know, because yes and no. I'm just attracted to musical people.

[931] Right.

[932] You know, there's people who love to sit, intellectuals have to sit and talk about, you know, the great literature of all time.

[933] Of Valentino's library.

[934] Yeah, I like sitting with people and feeling and talking and listening and writing and singing music.

[935] So I'm always attracted to that.

[936] Would you ever, as a cathartic experiment, write an album with dad?

[937] Oh, God, all right.

[938] What if all of a sudden I was like, bring them in?

[939] with a guitar.

[940] He already had 10 songs written.

[941] He just needed vocals.

[942] Oh, God.

[943] Okay, really quick.

[944] Now, the very fun thing was, right when we met, we went to Muscoca.

[945] So fun.

[946] For like 10 days.

[947] And that was like, there was nothing to do, but have fun.

[948] Oh, dude.

[949] Muscoca has seen all of Kate's boyfriend.

[950] And it's the best.

[951] One morning I wake up in Muskoca, and I'm like, Who is that?

[952] And it's Alex Rodriguez, waist deep in the leg doing these like stretches.

[953] And he's like silhouetted by the morning sun.

[954] And I'm like, look at this man. Anyways, we got back from that trip.

[955] And right thereafter, we're at your house and you get a call that is like, oh my God, let's go.

[956] We got to go.

[957] And I'm like, where are we going?

[958] We got to go to Cedars.

[959] Ollie's having his baby.

[960] It is like, I don't know, 12 or one in the morning.

[961] It was one in the morning.

[962] We just gotten back to where we were?

[963] This is the greatest because Oliver and I have been friends for a while.

[964] And we get to the hospital.

[965] And Oliver's just like, what is he doing?

[966] Well, no, I call Kate.

[967] That's fair.

[968] That's fair.

[969] My whole family is not in town and Kate's in town.

[970] Hold on a second.

[971] She went into labor three weeks.

[972] early.

[973] Nobody was home.

[974] I am like, my type A goes into like hyperdrive.

[975] Like I got to get to the thing.

[976] I got to make sure they have a room.

[977] I got to make sure that like we got this all.

[978] But from my perspective, Kate's the only one to call.

[979] Kate, it's happening.

[980] Great.

[981] That was it.

[982] We should see it.

[983] Aaron's in the car.

[984] We pull into the parking garage and we get out and we first see Kate.

[985] We're like, hey.

[986] And then all of a sudden, Dax comes around the corner.

[987] I'm like, Dax?

[988] I was like, what's up, dude?

[989] Like, what are you, what's going on?

[990] You're like, I'm here.

[991] Listen, I remember the exact exchange.

[992] So there was the parking garage, which was, you were like, oh, goodness, you're here.

[993] And then there was the elevator.

[994] And I looked at you, like, I kind of got to like an alone moment with you.

[995] And I go, look, I don't want to be here any more than you want me here.

[996] So let's get through this.

[997] And it was amazing, though.

[998] By the way, it was one of the.

[999] Great experience as ever.

[1000] Dax was in the room the whole time.

[1001] We had video cameras.

[1002] He's all over Wilder's birth.

[1003] I mean, because Aaron, in the room?

[1004] Oh, Aaron is getting I -Gs, the whole thing.

[1005] And I'm like filming Aaron.

[1006] She got a C -section.

[1007] So the prep.

[1008] He's in the, we're in the prep.

[1009] Right, C -section.

[1010] Sorry.

[1011] So then I'm shooting Aaron and I pee him up.

[1012] I'm like, Dax, how are you feeling?

[1013] And he's like, I'm pretty good.

[1014] Oh, my God.

[1015] And then the baby arrives.

[1016] a beautiful Wilder.

[1017] And I watch him get processed.

[1018] And I had never seen that.

[1019] And so I'm watching through the window.

[1020] And they were treating him like a fucking chicken.

[1021] They were battering and about to put him.

[1022] They were like, pick him up by the feet.

[1023] And they were like slathering him.

[1024] I was like, they are so rough with that little guy.

[1025] Like he's brand new.

[1026] And they're scrubbing him and everything.

[1027] And I was telling you, I'm like, they're really giving him the ones over over there.

[1028] Yeah.

[1029] But I will say that it was, as funny as it was, it was really an amazing.

[1030] fun experience for us and it changed the whole dynamic because it's our first kid there's nerves all around that you know especially for Aaron and Dax is there to provide this comic relief and it's just this really fun crazy time were you just making jokes the whole time because it was so awkward I was there I had to relieve it's also I think one of the things for us it's like family dynamics is one thing but then it was me Oliver my day two week boyfriend yeah your third date And his wife, it was kind of like this really, it made it less.

[1031] It felt young and like a party.

[1032] Yeah, totally.

[1033] It was different.

[1034] But the strangest part is, is Kate says, okay, babe, Dax, brothers having a baby, let's go.

[1035] And Dax was like, okay.

[1036] I know, I know.

[1037] He didn't say, well, drop me off.

[1038] Yeah.

[1039] Let's do this.

[1040] Sure.

[1041] Dax is always game.

[1042] Oh, dude.

[1043] Oh, that's so funny.

[1044] Fucking great.

[1045] Okay.

[1046] Back to your, Kate, your kind of relationship with what's real, what's not, what's fun, and how to navigate all that, which you do well.

[1047] You happen to have lived with one of the greatest examples of it of all time, because I've said many times, I've met so many of my heroes at this point.

[1048] Most of them don't deliver.

[1049] You're pretty bum most of the time.

[1050] You're like, oh, they're kind of unhappy.

[1051] Kurt is the, I mean, he is the high water mark.

[1052] For me, of a guy I met where I was like, oh, his identity isn't that job.

[1053] He's his own man first.

[1054] And then that was something.

[1055] he did to make money.

[1056] There's something so healthy about him.

[1057] Very inspirational guy to me. Listen, he wooed me. Yes.

[1058] Yeah, yeah.

[1059] He loved rides together.

[1060] He loved flying together.

[1061] When we were dive bombing the dock that you guys were all on, I thought, you know, he's going to lose control of this aircraft.

[1062] We're going to die.

[1063] And I remember thinking of the many ways to go.

[1064] This is up there.

[1065] Not a bad one.

[1066] It's not a bad one.

[1067] Comic -cazing into the lake with Kurt Russell.

[1068] He's such a great pilot.

[1069] I love OJ I mean that is the greatest Oh my God The OJ story We were at Merrill We were at Merrill Street And Don were living in L .A. And they were moving to Connecticut And we went to their house To have like a go away barbecue With like the kids You know all the kids And Amy and Henry and every We all went over there And we are there The news is on And all of a sudden it was like You know we heard one person At Merrill's house going like Oh my God Turn on the True turn on the news.

[1070] He's turn on the news and it is the white Bronco on the 405.

[1071] The O .J. Chase.

[1072] Wow.

[1073] And Merrill used to live on Rockingham, South Rockingham.

[1074] And I think it was, or Burling game, one of those, like right games.

[1075] Same neighborhood.

[1076] And we're all sitting there watching and Kurt, as he does, got really excited.

[1077] It was like, this is fucking unbelievable.

[1078] Can you, we are witnessing history.

[1079] It was like he was standing.

[1080] He was so excited.

[1081] It was crazy to him.

[1082] He's like, there's a couple things that are going to happen.

[1083] He started going through everything that would happen.

[1084] He was either going to end up killing himself.

[1085] They were going to end up, they're driving to Mexico.

[1086] And then there was a moment where they're on the 405 and Kurt goes, he's going home he's going fucking home and he's like done and he turns to Merrill's husband and he's like we got to go and they walk to OJ's house they leave no they leave watching the news coverage and then mom and Merrill were like you got to be careful like we don't know what's happening right they go to OJ's house which is a couple blocks away and we're watching the news and you see like Shapiro and you see what's his name?

[1087] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1088] And all of us, it's all roped off.

[1089] No, no, no, no, no. And you see Paul.

[1090] Yes, I don't know this story.

[1091] We saw him and he's shaking hands with like Shapiro or one of those guys.

[1092] And we're like, oh, there's Paul.

[1093] He inserted himself in the biggest news story of the century.

[1094] And, you know, Kurt, he's probably like, hey, guys, this is crazy.

[1095] But that's what happened.

[1096] And then Kurt comes back and he's like, yeah, got to see, like, you know, the guy, like, you know.

[1097] And then Mom and Meryl were like, you're insane.

[1098] You know, in his worldview that, like, gunplay was a 50 % chance.

[1099] In his worldview, he's like, this thing's probably going to end in gunplay.

[1100] And I still am going to be right there.

[1101] Oh, yeah.

[1102] Of course.

[1103] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1104] Shit's going to go sideways and I need to have a front row seat to it.

[1105] Oh, my God, I've never heard that story.

[1106] That's Paul.

[1107] Like, in his mind, he's like, this is history.

[1108] I need to go towards what, be a part of it.

[1109] It's right down the street.

[1110] I'm the neighbor.

[1111] Oh, I love it.

[1112] Okay, but what's the name of the podcast again?

[1113] Sibling revelry.

[1114] Right.

[1115] Yeah, it comes out today.

[1116] Today.

[1117] Yeah.

[1118] Look for siblings today, today.

[1119] Chelsea Handler and her sister so far, our friend Tay Diggs and his brother.

[1120] Jimmy Kimmel.

[1121] Jimmy Kimmel, his brother.

[1122] And we've got a bunch of cool experts.

[1123] Dr. Sheffali from the conscious parent.

[1124] Medical medium is coming on.

[1125] We've got the mentalist.

[1126] Yeah.

[1127] You know it was great was, I don't know if you know this comedian, Bobby Lee.

[1128] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1129] Love him.

[1130] So he was on the show that I just did.

[1131] And Bobby Lee and his brother.

[1132] It was so phenomenal.

[1133] Their life growing up was so unbelievable.

[1134] Crazy.

[1135] And we had this moment at the end where Bobby told his brother, like how he felt about him Kate prompted it and you'd never heard his brother speak to him this way I said if there's one thing that you could say to your brother that you'd always want him to feel and know about himself like what would it be?

[1136] Right that he might not know what do you know about your brother that he doesn't know himself and it was so beautiful to watch these two comedians who are fucking nuts yeah yeah totally not just slow down a little bit and talk What's so nice about that is I don't know if you guys experience this But my brother will rarely give me a compliment Like to my face But I'll run into people I'll be like oh your brother said this And your brother said that Like I'll go Oh wow he's proud of me around town Or to people And that's the only way I really hear it Yeah And it is a - We're like super We're a little gushy Types Yeah no we are But it's not easy It's like we were talking about before That to be vulnerable And to say to Kate you know this is how i feel about you it's for me it's i feel i'm like oh my god am i really saying this right now i want to but i'm like there's so much potential damage even though that's a narrative and it's bullshit yeah but there is so much potential damage by speaking the truth yeah for me personally that's one of my big shit that's one of the big things i'm working on in my life you know but it's fun bringing it back it's fun to have these siblings come on and there's an openness that seems to have happened that we weren't counting on.

[1137] One of the great things that happens every time is Oliver always asks, did you ever have a moment where you were jealous of like where your sibling was going?

[1138] Because usually, and without hesitation, every sibling will go, oh no, I was like so proud, I'm so excited for them.

[1139] And Oliver's like...

[1140] Kate's like, see?

[1141] Oliver's like, oh, come on.

[1142] Come on.

[1143] I'm like, Oliver, this is your issue.

[1144] I want someone to connect with me too.

[1145] But I'm surprised that that's always the answer.

[1146] No, no, every time.

[1147] I think some of them are lying.

[1148] I do too.

[1149] No, no, no, no. No, no. I don't think so.

[1150] Mm -mm.

[1151] I think it's coming from a really honest place.

[1152] I think Oliver just particularly hold on to these things.

[1153] Someone will agree with me at some point.

[1154] I project endlessly.

[1155] Oh, it's like, that's where I start.

[1156] It's like, really, you don't have any problem with, like, drinking?

[1157] How many of you drink?

[1158] You can't be this charismatic and not have a drinking problem.

[1159] Yeah, exactly.

[1160] Come on, I mean, you have a sex addiction, right?

[1161] Everyone's sex.

[1162] You're like, you're like, right, right, right.

[1163] Right, right.

[1164] They're like, no. It's, like, hard for you not to fuck all day, right?

[1165] Our guests are like, well, no. I have some good deck stories that I didn't reveal on this year.

[1166] Oh, man, but I don't think I'm allowed to say them.

[1167] What are they?

[1168] Well, because it's kind of like, this.

[1169] climate.

[1170] I don't know we can talk about some of the things.

[1171] If it's our story, sure.

[1172] Really?

[1173] Yeah.

[1174] But give us one.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] Okay, well, one thing that...

[1177] So, so excited.

[1178] Okay, well...

[1179] There was a couple.

[1180] There's one that I'll never forget, which is one of my favorites.

[1181] There's a particular girlfriend that I have.

[1182] She always seemed...

[1183] We don't talk much anymore.

[1184] But every friend that we have, it was like, if you had a boyfriend, she was always, like, so affectionate with the boyfriend.

[1185] Oh, my God.

[1186] We were in a New York and I was cooking and there was the kitchen in the dining room and then you were watching television in the living room and Julianna my friend goes you have to go look at what your friend is doing with Dax right now and go out and Dax is sort of lying on the sofa and he's lying there as stiff as a board with his hands as if like I'm not do you remember this no oh my God I had a boner and I no no you were trying to be Your body.

[1187] Oh, my God.

[1188] No. Stip as a force.

[1189] I got so nervous.

[1190] No, he's, your body.

[1191] You were like, you were like shoved on this.

[1192] Trying not to move.

[1193] And my friend was lying on top of you.

[1194] Literally watching television with you.

[1195] And I remember coming out and I said her name.

[1196] I'll say Jane for sake of it.

[1197] And I looked, I remember I had an apron on, no joke and a cooking spoon.

[1198] And I remember going, Jane Jane What are you doing And she looked And Dax looked at me And I can't I mean I don't know how to But Jax was like I don't know what to do And she's literally like lying on top of them But you were very respectful And you were very sweet Because you didn't know what to do But I don't It's almost like when a kid You'll go to like a party with your kids Right And one of the kids You just be crazy affectionate with you And you're like I don't really know I don't want to make this kid feel weird About being so affectionate But this is way too much affectionate for us as strangers.

[1199] I think I was in that feeling that way.

[1200] Dude, so real quick, there's this kid at my daughter's preschool last year.

[1201] Every time I came in, he would run to me and want me to pick him up, so I'd pick him up and I'd hold him.

[1202] And he touched my face and be like, beard?

[1203] Beard?

[1204] And he goes, lips.

[1205] Oh, wow.

[1206] Lips.

[1207] And I'm like, uh -huh, yeah.

[1208] Okay.

[1209] And I'm trying to put him down to the same situation.

[1210] Not trigger any.

[1211] No, I don't want to feel.

[1212] But I'm like, okay.

[1213] And you don't want other people around to think you had this thing with this.

[1214] Right.

[1215] Like I've coaxed him to sort of do this.

[1216] And your own kids did to you the other night we were laying in bed.

[1217] And my four -year -old comes in and she, we're laying in bed.

[1218] And she comes up into my ear and she goes, Daddy.

[1219] And I'm like, okay.

[1220] I don't want to make her feel weird about this because it's clearly not a sexual thing for her.

[1221] I can't imagine why she wants to scratch my body off.

[1222] Sounds like a shepherd.

[1223] And I go, you know what, hon, I think I'm too insecure to let you scratch my bottle.

[1224] Is that what you said?

[1225] Wait, can I ask you, do you still have a propensity to get naked?

[1226] Because that was something that is another story.

[1227] Oh, well, I thought that was a story you were telling it.

[1228] The other time with the window.

[1229] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1230] So now we're all sitting there, the girls, we're like smoking, drinking, whatever.

[1231] I don't know where Dax was.

[1232] I don't know what he was doing at the time.

[1233] But we're dating and he's in the New York apartment, well, house.

[1234] and all of a sudden we're in like girl talk mode you know and there's about four of us something like that just literally I don't know what happened and how this ended about or where this came from or what was like I remember you saying babe show them oh oh okay maybe that's what it was that's what it was okay so we were probably having the girl talk about the peens right yeah serious serious conversation right yeah and then I pushed it up against his glass.

[1235] And the girls were like, oh my God.

[1236] And then he left and they were like, oh my God.

[1237] And I'm like, oh my God.

[1238] Oh, no. You know, when Kristen and I were first dating, like maybe six months in, she's like, you know, has there anyone you haven't shown your dick to in this town?

[1239] And she was rightly a little bummed by it that everyone we met had seen my dick.

[1240] and I like I got defensive at first and then I was like you know what I don't love how I look I've always liked my dick I showed my dick off because I wanted approval and I don't like how I look and I'm sorry and I did it to everyone and I just I really wanted that approval I'm like cry now and then she was like she went from being really mad at me to go in like okay I kind of get that it's a beautiful beautiful dick oh what a great note to handle right exactly Well, you guys, I love you.

[1241] I love you, man. You guys are always so fun.

[1242] One of the funst things of dating you was hanging out with Ali all the time.

[1243] You guys' family is so fun.

[1244] You talk about all the shit, and it's really, really fun.

[1245] I hope everyone listens to sibling revelry out right now.

[1246] So go listen.

[1247] Grazie.

[1248] Hello?

[1249] Is this Camille?

[1250] Hi.

[1251] Hi.

[1252] Camille, it's Monica and Dax.

[1253] Hi, Monica and Dax.

[1254] Hi.

[1255] This is very.

[1256] surreal.

[1257] So it was your 30th birthday, we understand, and your husband bought you a left -handed mug.

[1258] Yes, my husband and his family.

[1259] I need to throw them in there, too, because I really, I hit the jackpot with my in -laws.

[1260] So they got together and they purchased a mug, pretty much primarily to help spread awareness about my son's genetic syndrome that he was born with.

[1261] What's your son's name?

[1262] His name is Jackson.

[1263] And what is his genetic disorder?

[1264] it's called 22 Q11 deletion syndrome and it is the second most common genetic syndrome that most people have never heard of so i heard deletion so that that means we're missing some genetic material is that the case on the 22nd pair the 22nd chromosome and then it's on the q11 .2 that's the location um so it it actually has a lot more names the george is one of them velocardial facial syndrome The list kind of goes on.

[1265] And so the material that's at that low side on the 22nd chromosome, what information should be there that's not there?

[1266] Well, it's really hard to tell.

[1267] There's actually over two, there's like maybe around 200 symptoms that can go along with 22 Q11 deletion.

[1268] And that's why it's so hard to diagnose.

[1269] And so people are realizing that all of these symptoms when they, you know, go in and their kids are just having a lot of issues, they're realizing all of these.

[1270] symptoms are actually linked to one syndrome specifically.

[1271] And now that people can actually get their genome mapped, is that helping with identifying people with this condition?

[1272] To some effect, my husband and I had to go through genetic counseling.

[1273] Well, we didn't have to, but we did go through genetic counseling ourselves as well.

[1274] And the technology is definitely becoming more accessible, but it's still very expensive.

[1275] And so a lot of families are self -diagnosing on the internet and then going to their doctors because a lot of times health professionals and even teachers haven't heard of this syndrome before.

[1276] Yeah.

[1277] So it's really difficult to provide services that wrap around for a child or even an adult's care because a lot of times people aren't even diagnosed until they're an adult.

[1278] So in general, is it development, how is it displaying itself in Jackson?

[1279] There's a whole list.

[1280] And so for Jackson specifically, and it's just easiest to give one example is we found out when I was still pregnant around 24 weeks and we saw a heart defect.

[1281] And he had an interrupted aortic arch and VSD.

[1282] And because of his specific heart defect, our cardiologist was in the know enough to suggest that we might want to go through genetic testing to see if he had what she called the DeGeorge, which we later have come to find out people are trying to call 22 Q11.

[1283] Right.

[1284] And so he has a whole host of other issues that we've been dealing with.

[1285] He's followed by maybe nine to 11 specialties throughout his life so far.

[1286] He has the heart issue.

[1287] When he was born, he had low calcium and also a low immune system.

[1288] A part of his thymus was missing, which is the place in the body that really helps boost your immune system.

[1289] It essentially educates the body on how to fight off illness.

[1290] Growth hormones are something.

[1291] neuro and psychological delays are sometimes associated.

[1292] There's kidney, GI issues learning.

[1293] There's some mental health issues that come later on in life a lot of the time.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] And when you have a diagnosis, you just, you have no idea what you're going to get.

[1296] Yeah.

[1297] So it's a kind of a spectrum disorder.

[1298] And I would imagine there's not a ton of funding for research and treatment for this.

[1299] No. Because this is the first time I'm hearing of it.

[1300] Exactly.

[1301] And I fancy myself a real medical genius, as you know.

[1302] I'm aware.

[1303] I was so nervous about making sure no one had to do a fact check for me. So I would imagine there is a foundation that you believe in, that you think's doing good work for these kids.

[1304] Yes, absolutely.

[1305] So there are a few foundations, and a lot of them are popping up, but we decided that we would really like to donate money to the 22Q family foundation.

[1306] Uh -huh.

[1307] Where would people find 22Q family foundation on the internet?

[1308] It's online.

[1309] Yep.

[1310] They have a website.

[1311] You can go there and learn all about the syndrome as well.

[1312] The Family Foundation specifically, they focus on a lot of education services and scholarships.

[1313] They work with kids and adults who have 22Q for career counseling and IP counseling.

[1314] And they're also really trying to educate teachers so that teachers are well informed of the syndrome so that if they have students in their classroom, they can help with the services that need to be done.

[1315] for education as well.

[1316] Well, Camille, as you know, we will be then forwarding the $2 ,000 that your husband and family members spent on this very overpriced left -handed coffee mugge.

[1317] So we're going to go ahead and forward that $2 ,000 to the 22Q Family Foundation.

[1318] And we really appreciate you bringing attention to this.

[1319] And we wish you a ton of luck with Jackson.

[1320] And we also hope you have fun in Montana.

[1321] Thank you.

[1322] I so appreciate your kindness and helping He raised a little bit of awareness.

[1323] Yes, and happy 30th birthday.

[1324] Thank you.

[1325] That's birthday present.

[1326] Wonderful.

[1327] Well, nice talking to you, Camille.

[1328] Good to talk to you both.

[1329] Thanks so much.

[1330] All right.

[1331] Bye -bye.

[1332] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1333] Check my facts.

[1334] When you check out my facts, or are you ever like, nice facts?

[1335] uh never well the ones i get right no okay i don't think you're never that proud of me about that kind of stuff i'm not no you relish one when i come up short every now and then i'll think like oh he was right oh wow but that's really what happens oh you're shocked he was right okay next thing moving on next up i was talking to my mom last night about you and i was telling her that i am a mere player in your father's virtual reality that's what i was explaining her because Because when I sent you that text, I had accidentally sent it to my mom.

[1336] Did I tell you that part of it?

[1337] No. Think about my mom getting this text that said, oh my God, I just figured it out.

[1338] I'm an actual avatar in your father's virtual reality.

[1339] Now, her father's been dead since I was 12.

[1340] So I don't know what she thought of that text.

[1341] Whoa.

[1342] And then I wrote back, oops, sorry, that was for Monica.

[1343] And then I fell obligated last night to explain it to her.

[1344] Do you want to tell everyone about, I mean, no one knows what you're talking about.

[1345] So you have a theory.

[1346] Okay.

[1347] So generally, well, people are pretty aware of this notion of this notion of.

[1348] of that maybe we're in a virtual reality.

[1349] I think Elon Musk is the one who really got it into the zeitgeist, right?

[1350] He thinks he's in a virtual reality.

[1351] I pointed out, I doubt someone who digs latrines thinks they're in a virtual reality, right?

[1352] That was kind of my takeaway.

[1353] Yeah, people who have gotten too much good fortune feel that way.

[1354] I've gotten too much good fortune, so it seems plausible.

[1355] So, you know, I've sat around and contemplated whether this is a virtual reality because things are suspiciously good for me. Yes.

[1356] But what hit me the other day was I was just.

[1357] just sitting around thinking about Ashok, as I do.

[1358] And I was like, God, think about his life.

[1359] He grew up in India.

[1360] He came here when he was 20 -some years old.

[1361] And he created a great career for himself.

[1362] He got married.

[1363] He had these two beautiful children.

[1364] One of the children's moved to Los Angeles.

[1365] She's become rich and famous.

[1366] And her coworker might end up introducing Ashok to Amy Klobuchar.

[1367] Yeah, my dad's favorite politician.

[1368] He's obsessed with her.

[1369] And I have made it one of my goals to introduce.

[1370] him to her.

[1371] I'm not sure how I'm going to do that yet, but it's on my list of things to do.

[1372] Oh, man. So as I was contemplating how I'm going to get those two together, I was like, oh, I'm playing a role in his virtual reality, in his simulation.

[1373] And it makes so much more sense.

[1374] But what I was shocked by is like, how cool the simulation gives me a whole story.

[1375] Like, I really believe I'm alive.

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] It's a really complex simulation.

[1378] It's hard for me to wrap my head around this.

[1379] Your dad is hooked to a machine in some other place.

[1380] Right.

[1381] I don't know what that place looks like.

[1382] Is it look like a Costco with no merchandise and just humans on the shelves?

[1383] I don't know what it looks like, but your dad is hooked to this machine and it created this reality for him.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] And I'm simply one of the characters.

[1386] So you, Dax, it doesn't exist.

[1387] No, but the VR is so good.

[1388] The simulation is so good is it.

[1389] Which makes sense.

[1390] The characters would have to believe they're real to do a good job.

[1391] Sure.

[1392] So I think I'm real.

[1393] Or when they pull the plug out of his head, I'm going to disappear.

[1394] How do we know if we're in my dad's or if we're in mine or yours?

[1395] I'm inclined to think I'm in your dad's.

[1396] That's my new conclusion.

[1397] I mean, he left one place and came to another.

[1398] You know, he's got a whole like Iliatic kind of journey, a saga.

[1399] Mine doesn't.

[1400] I left Milford, Michigan.

[1401] Yeah, but you kind of escaped all this trauma and then you had sobriety.

[1402] All sounds a little too storybook now, doesn't it?

[1403] Oh, so my dad invented that too?

[1404] Yes, the architect of your dad's simulation.

[1405] So who is the architect of my dad?

[1406] One of two things happened.

[1407] Your dad either lived some other life in another area.

[1408] Okay.

[1409] And then as he was dying, they hooked him up to this machine, and now he's just living in a simulation.

[1410] That's one option.

[1411] Two, he was born in the simulation.

[1412] His body's been being used to create BTUs like the Matrix.

[1413] He's just a source of energy.

[1414] Okay, okay.

[1415] in which case he's never had a real life he's only had the virtual reality life right so I don't know who the architect is that owns the Costco warehouse yeah who is that who's owning my dad probably Elon Musk oh wow okay okay because even if he was the architect his own ego would want he'd put himself in the simulation kind of like God like he has an ego like God does wow I hope all this is true.

[1416] Wouldn't it be cool?

[1417] No, I love to think that I, like, all these things I did were real.

[1418] That you're real?

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] Who care?

[1421] What's the difference?

[1422] You're right.

[1423] Who cares?

[1424] A nihilist point of view, who gives a shit?

[1425] What does it matter?

[1426] These little monkeys stayed busy until they were died.

[1427] And not even real monkeys.

[1428] Fake virtual monkeys.

[1429] Weird, weird, weird.

[1430] So we had Kate on.

[1431] Kate and Gary.

[1432] Kate and Oliver.

[1433] Kate's middle name is Gary.

[1434] I wish I would have brought that up.

[1435] That was probably the coolest thing about her, I thought, when I met her was her fucking middle name is Gary.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] That's a cool middle name for a girl.

[1438] And do you know why?

[1439] I think after her uncle.

[1440] Wow.

[1441] Yeah.

[1442] I think she's named after her uncle.

[1443] Is her name Caitlin?

[1444] Not to my knowledge.

[1445] Her name is just Kate Gary Hudson.

[1446] I'm not positive about that, but I think so.

[1447] I know the Gary part is for sure.

[1448] Let me look it up right now.

[1449] I'm going to look it up to see if it says it on Wikipedia.

[1450] I wish you knew because you did date her.

[1451] Mm -hmm.

[1452] Okay.

[1453] It just says Kate Gary Hudson.

[1454] There we go.

[1455] It does not say Caitlin or Catherine.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] Are most Kate's a Catherine or a Caitlin or whatever?

[1458] Kate is a short name.

[1459] Yeah.

[1460] Well, yeah, there's only four letters in it.

[1461] Kate.

[1462] Yeah.

[1463] It's short for Catherine normally.

[1464] Oh, okay.

[1465] I really didn't know this.

[1466] You're saying it's like Bob and Robert, which by the way is so stupid.

[1467] You can't change the first letter of a name.

[1468] I know.

[1469] It's not like Bob and Robert.

[1470] Kate is literally.

[1471] short for Catherine.

[1472] Right, but what about back to Robert and Bob?

[1473] Okay, yeah, we don't like that.

[1474] That would be like if your name was Thomas, but you went by Tim.

[1475] Yeah, or bomb.

[1476] I guess they do it in Thomas, because you don't go by Thaum.

[1477] Well, no, but it's not Thomas.

[1478] No, but it is T -H -O -M -A -S.

[1479] I know, but that's just spelling.

[1480] It's not, you're not changing the sound.

[1481] Right.

[1482] Thomas.

[1483] I think people in Spanish -speaking countries that are Thomas or Thomas.

[1484] No, they're Tomas.

[1485] Tomato.

[1486] Tomato tomato.

[1487] Tomato tomato.

[1488] And is Gary generally the nickname for Gerald?

[1489] No, that's Jerry.

[1490] Do they switch it to a J?

[1491] Yeah, sometimes.

[1492] Oh, God.

[1493] Sometimes it switched to a J. No, I think Jerry that's a J is just Jerry.

[1494] Or Gerard?

[1495] Gerard's a G. it is yeah oh or yeah gerard butler that's gerald butler that's gerald butler that's gerald butler gerard yeah not gerald butler kate hudson and oliver hudson so isn't oliver hudson handsome yeah he is handsome he's really handsome very he's very effortlessly handsome too it's not like he looks like he manicures himself no he's not It's not like he puts himself together so well that you're like, oh, this guy's debonair.

[1496] He just is effortlessly handsome as hell.

[1497] Yeah, he was charming.

[1498] Yeah, and cute.

[1499] You can tell he's fun as hell.

[1500] Yeah, he seems fun.

[1501] I used to hang out with him a ton when I was younger and we had so much fun.

[1502] I know.

[1503] Kate, was it weird or no?

[1504] Well, what was weird is on the way here, I was like, okay, well, we dated.

[1505] I'm not going to try to pretend we didn't.

[1506] That'll get acknowledged.

[1507] But I don't think it'll be an exploration of what our relationship was like.

[1508] But then I thought, but Oliver's going to be here.

[1509] And he's a shit starter and a rascal.

[1510] And he might poke.

[1511] Which he did right out of the gates.

[1512] He said, who broke up with who?

[1513] Well, yeah.

[1514] Well, to be fair.

[1515] To be fair to him, you guys were talking about it.

[1516] She said, have you ever had anyone on you, you've dated?

[1517] A nice girlfriend, yeah.

[1518] Yeah, and then you talked about it a little bit.

[1519] And then he said, who broke up with who, by the way?

[1520] Right, which is a very inflammatory kind of question.

[1521] I don't think so.

[1522] I would never ask two people who broke up with who.

[1523] I would.

[1524] You would?

[1525] No, I wouldn't.

[1526] No, no one would.

[1527] I would if it was my brother.

[1528] I probably feel comfortable enough.

[1529] Yeah.

[1530] Exactly.

[1531] But none of our, like, friends, if we were over and they said, oh, yeah, we used to date, you would never go who broke up with who.

[1532] Because you know, someone will be embarrassed by the fact that they were the one broken up with.

[1533] That's true.

[1534] It's a very rude question, unless it's your sister and an old friend.

[1535] It's your sister.

[1536] Then it's very funny.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] I had a hunch something like that might happen.

[1539] Well, okay, here's the other thing.

[1540] Also, obviously you guys don't hate each other or she wouldn't be here.

[1541] Right, right.

[1542] So he probably felt like it's fine to talk or ask because, first of all, you guys decided to talk about it.

[1543] Uh -huh.

[1544] And you both clearly are fine being around each other, flirting like crazy.

[1545] So I might as well ask.

[1546] Did you feel, because you haven't seen each other in a long time, right?

[1547] It's been a while?

[1548] No, I bumped into her maybe a year and a half ago at the Super Cross race.

[1549] And then before that, I saw her baby to baby.

[1550] I've probably seen her once a year.

[1551] You've seen her.

[1552] But you haven't like spent a legitimate amount of time together.

[1553] No, we probably talked for five or ten minutes at the motocross race.

[1554] Okay.

[1555] And we probably talked for five or ten at baby to baby.

[1556] Right.

[1557] Right.

[1558] So I guess my question is when you're in this environment, an intimate environment, does it like trigger those old feelings?

[1559] Not in a like infidelity way, but not in a betrayal way, but in just, oh, oh yeah.

[1560] I remember what it's like to be with her.

[1561] That was fun.

[1562] Yeah, but as I discussed in the podcast, I'm more reminded of how I felt when I dated her when I see her, which I didn't like how I felt.

[1563] Yeah, I know.

[1564] So, yeah, that's how I feel.

[1565] Yeah, it's just interesting.

[1566] It is interesting.

[1567] And you don't think there's just like a little thread for both of you.

[1568] I mean, I think that's very common with people when they're knowing they're going to see an ex -girlfriend or boyfriend that there's like a, I want them to feel like I got away.

[1569] Oh, like I got away.

[1570] Yeah.

[1571] Sure.

[1572] Yeah.

[1573] On some ego level, I would love for her to feel like I got away.

[1574] Yeah.

[1575] But again, all my other relationships, this is the only relationship.

[1576] It's unique in this category that my other relationships, I didn't feel bad in them.

[1577] Right.

[1578] I never felt bad in any of the other relationships I've had.

[1579] That's the only relationship I was in that I felt bad in the relationship.

[1580] I felt less than and I felt not worthy.

[1581] and shittier than and all those things.

[1582] Yeah.

[1583] And I don't miss that.

[1584] Right.

[1585] There's no nostalgia for me about that.

[1586] I was going to say that I initially thought, oh, I will not deny we dated or acted like we didn't.

[1587] That's public knowledge.

[1588] Yeah.

[1589] We'll have to address that.

[1590] Oh, Oliver might fuck with us.

[1591] So I better actually be prepared to know what I would say about this.

[1592] If I have to sum up this relationship we had in front of the person.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] I better know what that summation is in my head.

[1595] Right.

[1596] And if I was caught off guard, maybe I would have maybe been inclined to just start listing the reasons I thought we broke up, which would have probably been very blamey to her.

[1597] And I didn't want to do that.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] Yeah.

[1600] I don't want to do that about anyone I've broken up with.

[1601] Right.

[1602] What's the point of that?

[1603] Yeah, I'm not working on them.

[1604] I'm working on me. Even now, if you asked me publicly why Bree and I broke up, I'm inclined to give you all.

[1605] all the reasons that I failed.

[1606] I have opinions of things she could have done better.

[1607] Sure.

[1608] But I wouldn't be apt to share those.

[1609] Yeah.

[1610] Or if we ever even talked about it, I don't even think I'd bring them up to her.

[1611] Right.

[1612] It's almost not my business.

[1613] My business is my stuff.

[1614] Yeah.

[1615] Anywho.

[1616] I think that's true.

[1617] So it was a very unique, interesting conversation.

[1618] Yeah.

[1619] To go through your relationship.

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] And talk about why it wasn't a match.

[1622] Yeah.

[1623] That's weird.

[1624] Very.

[1625] weird and cool but but but i found interesting i just you're really digging in because i just made a pocket i made a pocket are you playing pocket pool right now are you dittling i never no they're silky pants if i was wearing silky pants like you i would be fucking dittling and poking and squeezing my genitalia the whole day this pant didn't have a pocket and you just made a hole in it or was it sewn I think it was sewn shut and I just un...

[1626] I have that with some of my dress slack.

[1627] Is it meant to be unsown?

[1628] Yeah, so a lot of my dress slack come with the back pockets.

[1629] Sown.

[1630] Yeah.

[1631] But there is a functional pocket inside.

[1632] And then I rip that stitching out with my fingers.

[1633] And then I poke around in my butthole like you're doing.

[1634] I've always been upset about these pants that they don't have pockets and now they do.

[1635] Oh, great.

[1636] So you just solved a big...

[1637] I did.

[1638] How distracted were you with your pocket exploration?

[1639] Because we were talking and I kept looking down.

[1640] You were like digging and digging and you're really concentrating.

[1641] I could do both.

[1642] You can do both.

[1643] I do both.

[1644] So listen, it was interesting for me because I feel like I know you so well.

[1645] And then she came in.

[1646] She just represents a portion of your life that I don't know and feels weird.

[1647] It just reminds me that I don't know you at all.

[1648] Did you feel like you were time traveling?

[1649] Never met you before.

[1650] Oh, boy.

[1651] That's how I feel.

[1652] Did you feel like you were time traveling back to when I was dating her and observing us dating or something?

[1653] Well, I mean, a tiny bit, a tiny bit.

[1654] Like, oh, this is how they communicate.

[1655] Oh, uh -huh, sure.

[1656] Communicated, because this is how they communicate now.

[1657] And you guys do have a flirty energy.

[1658] Uh -huh.

[1659] So I felt like, oh, they probably had a really flirty fun time.

[1660] Playful.

[1661] Uh -huh.

[1662] But also, it's just like the stories and all these things.

[1663] And I feel so out of the loop on all of that stuff.

[1664] It all happened in another chapter.

[1665] You never read it.

[1666] Another entire chapter that I had nothing to do with.

[1667] We got to get someone in here that I partied with.

[1668] If you really want to see the other chapter of my life, we need to get someone in here who really.

[1669] Yeah.

[1670] I mean, I love learning about your life and I love hearing stories and stuff like that.

[1671] It makes me feel like I don't know you as well as I thought.

[1672] or something or something like that or I'll never know you in those ways which is fine but yeah just weird well I'm now trying to imagine being you okay so you have a guess that comes in that you dated when you were 27 mm -hmm or not even dated like even sometimes with Aaron I feel that oh it's just like these people that I've had a whole life with yeah Yeah, it's cool and weird.

[1673] Uh -huh.

[1674] Yeah, I guess I'm wondering, do you think that there are different stages that are more authentic or less authentic?

[1675] Authentic, no. Okay.

[1676] Because, yes, in the case where, yeah, you're around me and Aaron and we're telling stories about fucking trashing a house and I bet it's like, wow, that's not the person I met six years ago.

[1677] And it's not.

[1678] Right, right.

[1679] Right.

[1680] But I am being authentic in every moment I'm alive and it evolves.

[1681] Yeah.

[1682] I don't question that.

[1683] Yeah.

[1684] It's just all so interesting.

[1685] It is.

[1686] Okay, so she said, we talked about ASMR and she said that it stimulates the pleasure center of our brain and any kind of tone or harmony hits that pleasure center.

[1687] So, ASMR, autonomous, sensory meridian response is what it stands for.

[1688] there was some study on it and he said that so your brain sort of gets tricked in a way when you're watching it that somebody's helping you your brain interprets that as this person is teaching me something is helping me so you get relaxed and you get focused and then your brain is getting into a super relaxed state probably driven by the neurohormin oxytocin so then that's why you can feel like sort of euphoric then but for some people watching ASMR videos creates a feeling of raised alertness that's because the brain is releasing increased levels of norapinephrine adrenaline essentially this is something your brain releases when you feel threatened because this is a stranger in the video pretending to be your friend so you shouldn't be relaxed because you don't even know this person why are they acting like they know you Is it Nora Ephron a director?

[1689] Yeah sure Every time you say nor ephreferon.

[1690] Epinephrine.

[1691] Yeah, it sounds like norephron.

[1692] It does.

[1693] So then I was thinking about this and I was like, wow, yeah, there are just two ways it can go, obviously, which is why some people love it.

[1694] Some people don't.

[1695] Yeah, and radically different.

[1696] Yes.

[1697] And I was thinking maybe, I bet there's some sort of correlation between your number of aces.

[1698] Oh.

[1699] And if you like ASMR or not.

[1700] Because I bet if you don't have any, you're more likely to like it.

[1701] I bet you're right.

[1702] That's a good, I like that theory.

[1703] Because I in general do not like receiving instruction.

[1704] Yeah.

[1705] It just takes me right to Stepdadville.

[1706] Yeah.

[1707] So I wonder if you're watching those videos, if that's how you would perceive it as like they're pretending to know you in a way.

[1708] They're pretending to be intimate with you.

[1709] And so if you're a person that feels like people could take advantage of you, which you do often feel, then I think you'd be a little bit more on the other.

[1710] alert scale than on the calm scale during those things.

[1711] I don't know.

[1712] So you said Malcolm Gladwell's new book is about how fallible memory is and how it works and how we're bad at memorizing what happened.

[1713] The book is on strangers and the dangerous assumptions we make about them.

[1714] Something is very wrong with the tools and strategies we use to make sense of people we don't know.

[1715] And because we don't know how to talk to strangers, we are inviting conflict and misunderstanding in ways that have a profound effect on our lives and our world.

[1716] I got to order that.

[1717] That's going to be my return to hard book.

[1718] I do think I retain a lot more when I read as opposed to listen.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] And I always like to retain those.

[1721] 80 % of what I say is from a Malcolm Gladwell book.

[1722] I know.

[1723] But it's not about fallible memory.

[1724] I bet there's a chapter in there.

[1725] I saw him on a talk show promoting the book and he was going this diatribe about memory giving all these examples of people's bad memory oh yeah maybe that's a section of it so she told the story about valentino's house uh -huh he was telling some old story about how there was a red rose in that garden and that was bad and how like you're not supposed to have red roses and real gardens but then i couldn't find any like myth about that or any lore of gardens that you shouldn't have a red rose or anything.

[1726] Maybe it's his own personal opinion.

[1727] It might be.

[1728] There's some mythology around red roses in general.

[1729] Red roses, red roses, send Monica right over.

[1730] That's Red Rover.

[1731] Oh.

[1732] But there is roses are red, violets are blue.

[1733] Sugar is sweet, so are you.

[1734] Or bad ones, bad versions of roses or red violets are blue.

[1735] Yeah.

[1736] I made a toot and it smells like poo.

[1737] Oh, yeah.

[1738] But there's like mythologies, like in ancient Greek, Venus's son Cupid was stung by a bee and he accidentally shot arrows into a rose garden and when Venus walked through the garden and pricked her foot on the thorns, droplets of blood turned the roses red.

[1739] Oh.

[1740] So there's all these like blood legends.

[1741] Sure.

[1742] So maybe he doesn't like blood.

[1743] Well, I do imagine back in the olden days when you didn't have like all the pigments at your disposal and paint and all that.

[1744] Yeah.

[1745] You probably didn't see red that much other than, like, in the wild, you don't see a ton of red.

[1746] You don't.

[1747] It's a unique offering.

[1748] It is.

[1749] Oh, well, there is something that you aren't supposed to have on the rose bush.

[1750] Mm -hmm.

[1751] If the leaves turn red, if there's, like, a red leaf, that's bad.

[1752] That's bad news.

[1753] It's a really bad news.

[1754] I mean, there's a disease.

[1755] Oh, just a bone.

[1756] There's a fatal infection.

[1757] Okay.

[1758] So, I mean, it just means that.

[1759] plant is gone.

[1760] Bissert.

[1761] Yeah.

[1762] Yeah.

[1763] But anyway.

[1764] So all you horticulturists out there, keep an eye on the petals of your rose bushes.

[1765] Yeah.

[1766] The foliage.

[1767] The foliage.

[1768] The flora.

[1769] So you said there was a study at John Hopkins.

[1770] They would treat children that were going through developmental issues.

[1771] And then they said, Hela's treat the parents at the same time.

[1772] And then no, we'll just treat the parents.

[1773] And then that went up tenfold.

[1774] I don't know that tenfold's the right.

[1775] I didn't find that study.

[1776] There is a study at Yale, a experimental program called space, supportive parenting for anxious childhood emotion, space, which is a parent -based treatment that is basically for child anxiety.

[1777] But only treating the parents.

[1778] Yeah, but it's treating the parents in like basically educating them on how to deal with the kid.

[1779] Mm -hmm.

[1780] But not sending the kids.

[1781] kid into therapy so maybe that's what you meant maybe yeah but i didn't find john's hopkins one and i didn't find tenfold oh bummer that's all that was all the fact yeah the lack of fact oh you got a surgery you didn't tell people oh my lip yeah yeah i got a cyst taken out of my lip 36 hours ago.

[1782] And I have some stitchies in my mouth.

[1783] Yeah.

[1784] Four stitches.

[1785] I think I've eaten one of them out already.

[1786] Ew, you did.

[1787] I can't stop biting the, like, the stray pieces of the...

[1788] The straying.

[1789] Yeah.

[1790] And then you're swall in it?

[1791] No, I spit out the little piece of stitch.

[1792] Oh, you do?

[1793] Do you think you would gnaw on yours?

[1794] Definitely.

[1795] It's almost impossible not too.

[1796] Kind of, yeah.

[1797] And the fun thing about this cyst is it's the second one I've had taken out.

[1798] Yes.

[1799] Had one taken out six years.

[1800] ago and our good friend Ryan Hansen also has had two yeah and we both have gone to the same guy to get it taken out I know we both have photographs of our cysts that the poor doctor had to take with us holding it with tweezers yeah I've never heard of anyone else in the world who's had this and yet you have two friends who've had four of them combined that's right and I bite my lip all the time in the exact same spot and you never get a huge I never have to get it removed it was like it's like a marble inside your lip so weird but you felt like it got a lot smaller by the time you went into your surgery 100 % I was saying Monica we had suzy the day of and I said you know when you have a real bad flu or cold and you keep putting off going to the doctor and then you finally make an appointment and then on your way there you start feeling perfect and then you're in the waiting room and you feel healthier than you've ever felt and then you go in there And you're like, should I tell them my symptoms from it yesterday?

[1801] Yeah.

[1802] I'm always in that position.

[1803] First of all, well, not always.

[1804] I barely go to the doctor.

[1805] But when I do, it's generally the thing clears up.

[1806] I know.

[1807] So sure enough, yesterday I started thinking, this thing's too small to get pulled out.

[1808] It's gotten smaller.

[1809] Yeah.

[1810] But mind you, over the last three and a half months that I've had it, it's gotten smaller, bigger, smaller, bigger.

[1811] It kind of fluctuates.

[1812] Sure.

[1813] So I went in anyways.

[1814] And it was a good side.

[1815] When he took it out.

[1816] Yeah.

[1817] Yeah.

[1818] It was worth it.

[1819] And in fact, when he felt it, he goes, you want to take this one out?

[1820] And I was like, oh, it's not big enough for him to take out.

[1821] And then when he got it out, he goes, oh, yeah, it's bigger than I thought it was.

[1822] Oh, good.

[1823] So you also felt like, oh, no. Yeah, but I was really on the fence.

[1824] Like, should I stand up and leave?

[1825] But the last thing I want to do is end up in two months it's even bigger.

[1826] Yes.

[1827] And I can't find a fucking two hours for you to get it done.

[1828] Yes, it worked out.

[1829] Oh, and I wanted to tell people, the Bless This Mess Halloween episode aired.

[1830] And that was the one where your eye was popped.

[1831] out when we were recording a fact check that day and we were talking about your eye grody eye that they put on during the fact check yes and they could see it if they'd like yeah i guess on hulu we were really laughing we were it's a good show there was a lot of funnies and i told lake that you liked when she said who's there i did like that yeah i got a laugh out of you big time i reported all the laughs oh good yeah i told lennon when you laugh oh i laughed to her the whole time yeah she's so funny another advertisement for linen oh my god we were in the um we were eating yesterday's scene was um eating uh christmas dinner together oh so it was like a huge dinner table scene with like i don't know 10 of us yeah and i said hey um i know sometimes it's hard to eat a lot in these scenes because you have to eat for like two hours as they set up all these different camera angles i just wanted to wet your appetite and then i slid my phone over and it was the picture of the two hairs and the butt rain on it oh man what a good photo yeah good photo I can see a unicorn in the wild it's posted everyone if you want to see it yeah there's a safety picture as we said been a warning card yep you did a great job thank you all right well I love you love you and I hope you feel a part of the best part of my life I feel a part of your life I do of my life.

[1832] I feel, I mean, I wish I could go back in time of watch your whole life and be there.

[1833] Yeah, me too.

[1834] But I'm happy that.

[1835] I want to go to your cheer meets and scream when you win.

[1836] I would probably be going the most berserk in that audience when you won the state championship.

[1837] Oh, you should see the video of my dad.

[1838] Oh, what was he doing?

[1839] It was so, it was really embarrassing at the time.

[1840] And now it makes me really feel warm when I think about that.

[1841] But he was so excited, like jumping up and down.

[1842] Oh, Lizzie laughing uncontrollably.

[1843] He was animated I've ever seen him.

[1844] He was like, animated.

[1845] It was frantic, yeah.

[1846] Oh, wow.

[1847] Oh, I wish I had, well, not only would I want to go to see your flying act, but I'd want to look immediately at a choke when you guys won so I could see his.

[1848] Yeah, it's pretty special.

[1849] And there's a tape of it.

[1850] Yeah, there was.

[1851] Let's find that over Christmas, okay?

[1852] I'll try, I'll try.

[1853] Please?

[1854] I'll try.

[1855] Okay.

[1856] I'm asking for a Christmas commitment here.

[1857] Okay.

[1858] I love you.

[1859] Bye, I love you.

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