198 - Live at the Bord Gáis Energy Theatre in Dublin

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Amazing.

[2] Wow.

[3] You guys are so loud.

[4] Thank you.

[5] It's the best.

[6] It's the best hearing loss I've ever had.

[7] Oh my God.

[8] We love to be screened at.

[9] That's right.

[10] Public venue.

[11] Directly.

[12] Yes.

[13] Thank you for being here.

[14] What an exciting time.

[15] It's jet lag season for us.

[16] I slept in so late this morning.

[17] I was like, what day is it?

[18] It's very extravagance.

[19] That's true.

[20] We've been to a couple places and we've had so much fun and not seen a single vegetable.

[21] Oh my God.

[22] You fucking hate lettuce here.

[23] It's crazy.

[24] Will you please talk briefly about your Caesar salad?

[25] I would love to.

[26] Last night I ordered a Caesar salad to try to be like somewhat healthy and it was just a pile of bacon on like resting gently on some like what looked like lettuce -ish and I ate it it was great I wasn't mad at it at all in your food diary right um one Caesar salad no dressing yeah it's the thought that counts right absolutely yeah so I'm healthy no one's mad about it not at all you're like well the whole country made me stop eating vegetables I I tried my best But then we eat today, Vince and I walked around, and we took 5 ,000 steps.

[27] So I think I made up for the bacon by stepping.

[28] Half those steps were to pubs.

[29] Where then you got, you made back up for that stepping by eating toasties.

[30] Want to see what I had for breakfast?

[31] Would you please show me?

[32] Why wouldn't you?

[33] Why not?

[34] Yay.

[35] Shit.

[36] We went to Brogan's pub.

[37] place was fucking legit like the bartender had jokes and jokes he was so funny it was amazing and then they're all funny I know I swear to God every last fucking one of them it's so irritated it's so I mean it makes me proud I'm Irish American so it kind of doesn't count as much I'm not trying to get you to clap for me we have a lame aspect to it here though everyone is like, like, every person we meet has a little thing to stay out of the side of the remote, it's just the most entertaining.

[38] It was so good.

[39] Okay, wait, what time of the morning was this?

[40] Well, I woke up at 11.

[41] So by morning, I mean like noon.

[42] Okay, but still.

[43] Yeah, it was good.

[44] You got your iron in that Guinness.

[45] That's right.

[46] Pregnant mothers love it.

[47] Sorry, you want to keep talking about it?

[48] Yes, I do.

[49] That toasty looked to me. Amazing.

[50] What's in there?

[51] Ham and cheese?

[52] Yeah, it's a ham and cheese toasty.

[53] I don't know where it went.

[54] Yeah, it's fine.

[55] Okay.

[56] We all remember it in our mind's eye.

[57] That's right.

[58] So good.

[59] Yeah, and we walked around, and I got some pseudo -cream.

[60] That's the stuff you put on wounds.

[61] Okay.

[62] Because, so we like to stay in pretty okay hotels, like three to four stars, you know.

[63] I mean, no brag, but yeah.

[64] We're not like, we're not posh, but we're not like trying to.

[65] you know, I don't know.

[66] Save money.

[67] Yeah.

[68] So that first night when we were in Manchester, I roll over in bed and just opened a wound on the sheets.

[69] They were not thread count high.

[70] Not an Egyptian sheet.

[71] No, and I bled.

[72] Yeah, that's serious.

[73] That's serious.

[74] It's like, you fell down and scraped your knee, but on a sheet in bed.

[75] At like a four -star hotel.

[76] So they'll be hearing first.

[77] me and Yelp.

[78] Now, tell me about this pseudo -cream, everyone's so excited about, because it sounds like, hold on.

[79] It does not mean it's not really cream.

[80] If we were to break it down.

[81] Sudo -science.

[82] It sounds a little pseudoscience -y to me. I don't know.

[83] I read one thing about it and then bought every single person I know a bottle, a jar of it, including you last time over here.

[84] Yay.

[85] Oh, is it that stuff?

[86] Yeah.

[87] Okay.

[88] I'm on board.

[89] Yeah.

[90] And I don't even know if it works, I'm just like covered head to toe in it.

[91] Before you go to bed at night, you're just like, I can't have the she thing happen again.

[92] Sudo cream, help me. What's up with you?

[93] Not much.

[94] Stayed in the room all day.

[95] That's what I like to do.

[96] When I'm on tour, people are like, oh my God, it's amazing.

[97] You get to go to Dublin.

[98] I'm like, I know.

[99] It's so great.

[100] Then I'm just standing at the window like a fucking psycho.

[101] Look at all the people passing by.

[102] Oh, by the way, This is the true crime comedy podcast, my favorite murder.

[103] This is Georgia Hard Star.

[104] We're so proud to be here with you tonight.

[105] We are.

[106] We actually should call it my favorite murder.

[107] So that they understand what we're talking about.

[108] Stupid.

[109] I feel like I want to tell you guys about how we saw a Fox last night, but I don't think it's that interesting to you.

[110] But to us, it was like, Georgia screamed.

[111] Screamed in the car.

[112] Scream.

[113] There's a fox!

[114] There's a box!

[115] On the stream!

[116] It's very exciting.

[117] And then Brendan, our driver, was just like, ugh.

[118] You don't want any part of that.

[119] You don't want to get any of those.

[120] We're like, there's a fox, though.

[121] Oh, they eat garbage.

[122] So don't want to do it at all.

[123] I wanted to look up what, like, Fox, you know, spirit guides meant.

[124] You know, like, oh, we're.

[125] We're seeing a fox on the road that must mean we're wily and use our wits or whatever.

[126] And then I was like, I didn't even see it.

[127] I just heard her scream.

[128] I didn't see it at all.

[129] I've taken to not wearing my glasses ever.

[130] So when things happen around me, I'm like, well, I'm not a part of this.

[131] I'll just keep moving along.

[132] Don't get involved, I say.

[133] Tell them about your, let's tell them both about our pocket.

[134] Thank you.

[135] We realize, oh.

[136] Yes.

[137] I might as well just tell them.

[138] I put my dress on tonight here at the theater and pulled out a little bag of weeds.

[139] Someone gave me at the meet and greet last night.

[140] She went right up and then whispered in my ear.

[141] She's like, here, take this.

[142] You can smoke it at your hotel and you can have the best tell you, but it's not as good as your Cali stuff, but it'll get you.

[143] And I was just like, oh my God, thank you.

[144] Put it in my pocket and entirely forgot about it.

[145] It would have been nice going into Heathrow.

[146] I'd be like, um, here's, please don't arrest me now at the height of my career.

[147] Please.

[148] I don't know.

[149] That might boost your presence.

[150] My cred?

[151] Online presence.

[152] That's right.

[153] Then there's me on the cover of high times.

[154] What's up?

[155] True crime and chill out.

[156] What?

[157] Shall we sit down?

[158] You want to?

[159] Sure.

[160] Okay.

[161] Sit down time already?

[162] I mean, this is a, these are Victorian.

[163] Yes.

[164] These are straight from.

[165] Rogan's pub.

[166] Whittled by hand at Grogan's pub.

[167] Sorry, that's offensive.

[168] No, they love being mocked.

[169] Do you want to tell them about the podcast?

[170] You guys don't know this, but this is a true crime comedy podcast.

[171] Because of that combination, there are people who get very offended, non -listeners.

[172] They don't like the They think it's disrespectful.

[173] They assume that we are laughing at murder.

[174] And so we always feel it's important on our live shows to tell people, especially those, that the listeners insist upon dragging along to the shows against their will.

[175] We like to tell them that actually we don't think murder is funny.

[176] We've both just been obsessed of true crime since we were very young.

[177] And along with that, we've coped with the horrible things in our life through humor, something you might know a little bit.

[178] it about.

[179] So, when we do this podcast and we talk about these horrible things, we also talk about funny things to kind of let off a little steam in the middle.

[180] It's just our process.

[181] It's the way we like to do it.

[182] And if you don't like it, you can get the fuck out.

[183] Kindly.

[184] Kindly get the fuck.

[185] I mean, it's not like we're aggressively, no one's going to boo you, you know?

[186] No, we've seen people storm out tons of times in our live shows.

[187] Have you guys ever heard the story of the two old gals that came to our show in Texas because they thought it was the sequel to the Phantom of the Opera.

[188] Or the other old gals.

[189] Maybe it was the same.

[190] Who knows?

[191] Who thought that this was a murder mystery show?

[192] Like a dinner theater show with no dinner, I guess, is what they thought it was.

[193] We should start eating dinner on stage on the movies.

[194] That'd be kind of amazing.

[195] That'd be really good for the audio element.

[196] The listeners.

[197] One of those two groups stayed and then became fans, but I can't remember which one if it was Phantom of the Opera I bet it was as Phantom of the Opera people.

[198] They were super disappointed.

[199] Stuffy.

[200] We did discuss wearing masks after that show just for the drama.

[201] But we decided not to.

[202] Do you know I've never seen that movie or play?

[203] The Phantom of the Opera?

[204] It's like a guy that lives in the sewer.

[205] I know that.

[206] Georgia, what if I told you we could be transported to the 1920s to solve a murderer.

[207] I'd say my entire life and wardrobe have led me to this point.

[208] If you want to escape to a bygone age of mystery, danger, and romance, then check out June's Journey, the Hidden Object Mystery Game that tests your detective skills.

[209] June's Journey is a mobile mystery game that follows June Parker and New York socialite living in London.

[210] As June Parker, you'll investigate beautifully detailed scenes of the 1920s while uncovering the mystery of her sister's murder.

[211] There are twists, turns and catchy tunes, all leading you deeper into the thrilling storyline.

[212] And if you play well enough, you could make it to the detective club where you can chat with other players and either team up with them or compete against them.

[213] June needs your help, but watch out.

[214] You never know which character might be a villain.

[215] Find out as you escape this world and dive into June's world of mystery, murder, and romance.

[216] Can you crack the case?

[217] Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[218] Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[219] That's June's Journey.

[220] Download the game for free on iOS and Android.

[221] Goodbye.

[222] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[223] Absolutely.

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[241] Goodbye.

[242] I'm first.

[243] Oh, mine's short and sweet, but I did do some research and go to the pub that is mentioned in this story.

[244] Just to, you know.

[245] Research.

[246] Research.

[247] I had an Irish coffee, which the bartender seemed really annoyed with me for ordering.

[248] I bet it's a tourist drink, isn't it?

[249] Yeah, no one fucking drinks that.

[250] It was delicious, though.

[251] It's just coffee with Bailey's in it?

[252] Coffee with Irish whiskey in it.

[253] And, like, cream on top.

[254] It's fucking good.

[255] Don't be mad at that.

[256] But he, like, had to do a whole fussy thing to make it.

[257] And I was like, oh, man. Oh.

[258] It sucks to him.

[259] Yeah, just drink a beer and get out, ma 'am.

[260] please but the bar I went to and the story I'm telling tonight is that of Darkie Kelly you guys didn't seem that stoked on it I mean what do you want they've been clapping for 10 minutes straight yeah how are you I got information about this from the Irish Central and a web blog called fringe rebels oh that cool Yeah.

[261] The podcast Killer Cocktails, and then this broadcast called No Smoke Without Hellfire by Amon McLaughlin.

[262] There you go.

[263] It was good.

[264] He's good.

[265] Okay.

[266] Do I have photos in this?

[267] There it is.

[268] That's okay.

[269] Stephen, I'd mark that.

[270] He's listening to you right now.

[271] He is.

[272] But in the future.

[273] Yeah.

[274] Did you ride your bike there?

[275] I did.

[276] My flower bike.

[277] Like, I wrote it there.

[278] So nice.

[279] Yeah.

[280] That's that.

[281] Okay, but the bar and the pub, basically, it's called Darkie Kelly's pub on Fishamble Street in Christchurch, Dublin.

[282] Okay.

[283] And if you'll find, when you go there, you'll find a plaque with an inscription that reads, this building was an 18th century brothel run by Madame Darkie Kelly, who in 1746 was publicly executed for the alleged murder of her child.

[284] Oh, shit.

[285] Yeah.

[286] Okay.

[287] But the real story is a little bit different than that.

[288] Okay.

[289] And I'm going to tell it to you.

[290] Great.

[291] So her real name is Dorkas Kelly.

[292] No jokes.

[293] Okay.

[294] We don't do that.

[295] We don't make fun of people's names.

[296] It's weird.

[297] It's just weird, though, that that name hasn't survived the test of time.

[298] This is my son, McKenzie, and my daughter, Dorkas.

[299] What?

[300] What's the problem?

[301] I bet it sounded great with an accent.

[302] Yes.

[303] Sure.

[304] You know?

[305] So, but her nickname was darky, which is problematic as well.

[306] So, I mean, that's the thing about history.

[307] It's pretty problematic.

[308] It's pretty problematic.

[309] Some really fucked up shit's happened.

[310] That's right.

[311] To many, many people.

[312] Here's one of them.

[313] Okay.

[314] So I'm going to call her Dorcas because she deserves that.

[315] Okay.

[316] She ran a brothel called Maiden Tower in the late 1750s.

[317] An ironic name.

[318] Which is the tower part?

[319] No. No. In Copper Alley in the southwest part of Dublin.

[320] Okay.

[321] She ran it, so 1750s, you saw it.

[322] Yeah.

[323] She had retired that puss by the time.

[324] This story.

[325] I don't know how else to say it.

[326] Hang it up.

[327] Hang it up.

[328] You're done.

[329] Lucky gal.

[330] Let the maidens come into the tower.

[331] That's right.

[332] She's like, I'm going to run this shit.

[333] Good for her.

[334] I did it.

[335] I'm done with it.

[336] Now I'm in charge of it.

[337] Yeah.

[338] Hanging it up.

[339] Yeah.

[340] So she had retired by this time and was just the woman who ran the, you know...

[341] The proprietress.

[342] The proprietress.

[343] The proprietrix.

[344] But so it said that...

[345] Uh -huh.

[346] Yeah, night too.

[347] But it said that she had one customer that she was loyal and that's the only person she saw.

[348] And he happened to be the sheriff of Dublin named Simon LaTrell.

[349] Oh, let's see.

[350] Here's a photo of her.

[351] Ooh, a little Demi Moore going on there.

[352] For real.

[353] I'm always so jealous of people that can do a center part.

[354] Oh yeah.

[355] Yeah.

[356] Those of us with the big Irish moon faces cannot.

[357] I'd part my hair right above my ear like Donald Trump if I could.

[358] I'm jealous of people who can look over it, even in a painting.

[359] You know what I mean?

[360] Like, she must have looked so over it that the painter was like.

[361] Just like, fuck this.

[362] Paint me all you want.

[363] This is bullshit.

[364] Okay.

[365] And then here's her lover.

[366] I could never give up Simon LaTrell.

[367] Well, he was the sheriff of Istanbul.

[368] Look at this shit.

[369] What's he doing?

[370] Is it Christmas?

[371] Well, here's the thing about him.

[372] he was a fucking crazy person Okay So he was a bad dude His nickname King of Hell Oh jeez I want to party with that guy Yeah You do And there was even a poem written about him Which I guess in those days If someone wrote a poem about you To slam you It was like super duper slam It wasn't just talking shit It was like I wrote a poem about it Well yeah because I also think back in those days It might be wrong But that you would get up and recite often times.

[373] So it's like, it wouldn't just be a poem in a book, but he'd be like, are you ready for the King of Hell Palm tonight?

[374] Have we all out our six Guinnesses?

[375] Let's do this thing.

[376] Here ye, hear ye, or whatever.

[377] Spread it around.

[378] So the poem was that if Satan never needed to retire, he could just hire Simon to take over for him.

[379] But he was, because he was a member of the notorious Hellfire Club.

[380] Do you know about it?

[381] A tad.

[382] Okay.

[383] Tell me, tell me. It's bad.

[384] Okay.

[385] Bad good, bad, bad.

[386] So, they're dicks.

[387] Okay.

[388] It was a name for several exclusive clubs for high society rakes.

[389] And I was like, what's that?

[390] It's short for rake hell, which also means hellraiser.

[391] So it was all these, like, rich, fucking high society dudes who just wanted to, you know, cause some trouble and be rich high society dicks.

[392] I mean, what else do they have to do, though?

[393] Those poor men.

[394] After you buy a bunch of boats, what is there for you to do?

[395] Meet up with other dudes and raise hell.

[396] They're so sick of doing whatever the fuck they wanted to that they needed a club so they could do whatever the fuck they wanted to in a club.

[397] With the devil.

[398] With the devil.

[399] So it was, okay, so these men were habituated in moral conduct, particularly womanizing.

[400] And it was established in Britain and Ireland in the 18th century, and they were rumored to be meeting places of persons of quality who wish to take part in socially perceived immoral acts.

[401] So I think there's just like a ton of boning and drugs and fun stuff like that.

[402] So it's just kind of like the internet of the past.

[403] Yeah, the dark web.

[404] Yeah, it was a dark web.

[405] It was a dark web of the past.

[406] The Dublin chapter was headed by Richard Parsons, who was a founding member of the Hellfire Club.

[407] He was known to be into black magic.

[408] Me too.

[409] and club members were known to be super into partying and having to botch our sex and there were rumors that the members were all Satanists like they were so bored by just being bad that they were like, let's bring Satan into this party Satan was like, y 'all are boring me and they would have these crazy rituals wear and then I wrote earmuffs Stephen they would sacrifice cats I know so we don't like them at all someone's fucking clapping for sacrificing cats you're at the wrong place it's so bold though I love it Fox we turn the light on it into the fuck Street Fox shit Street Fox bought a ticket He's just eating garbage and I see Like a popcorn thing but of garbage I love this show and I love the devil and that they would set a place for the devil at their table which is like that's not very scary.

[410] The devil is a foodie, for sure.

[411] No, the fork goes on the other side.

[412] Where's the treble oil, I ask?

[413] That's not evil.

[414] So this dude that Dorcas would only bone down with.

[415] Yes.

[416] She then allegedly became pregnant with his baby.

[417] And according to Simon, the dude, she came to him and demanded money, and we don't know if it was either for helping with the child or to keep it quiet.

[418] And so, you know, his response to that was a very sane and normal saying she was a witch.

[419] Oh.

[420] Problem solved.

[421] And he convinced, you know, all his higher -up friends in the law space to...

[422] In the law ecosystem?

[423] Yeah.

[424] Of back then?

[425] You know.

[426] Sure.

[427] To try her for being a witch.

[428] Problem solved.

[429] So he...

[430] accused her of witchcraft and accused he said that she sacrificed her baby but then it's rumored that he actually sacrificed her baby but then it's rumored that she also maybe wasn't pregnant at all so let's go with that one okay so um at the trial she was like you can't kill me because i'm pregnant and then um because it was true that you couldn't kill you know sacrifice someone if they were pregnant but um not sacrifice you know assassin uh hang yeah drown yeah whatever they were going to do yeah Put under a rock.

[431] That was the thing they did back then.

[432] Just kind of smash you.

[433] But hold on.

[434] Can I ask a question?

[435] I don't mean to question you.

[436] I wish you would.

[437] How was she on trial for sacrificing her baby?

[438] And then she said, but I'm pregnant so you can't kill me. Well, a bunch of midwives were like, she's not pregnant.

[439] Oh.

[440] So it's not known if she was or wasn't or what, but the witchcraft thing was.

[441] Got it.

[442] Got it.

[443] Okay.

[444] Simon testified that she had been casting spells on.

[445] on him to extort money and to make him fall in love with her.

[446] That's sad.

[447] He doesn't know how love works.

[448] I know.

[449] Or spells.

[450] How spells works?

[451] It's not witchcraft, dumbass.

[452] You have feelings and you have to deal with it.

[453] No, he doesn't.

[454] He actually doesn't.

[455] Be friends with the devil then.

[456] Whatever.

[457] So, even though the body of this alleged sacrifice child was never found, Dorkas was found guilty of witchcraft, and her punishment was death.

[458] So in 1746, this is how they put her to death.

[459] She's partially hanged and then publicly burnt alive at the crossroads of Bagot and Fitzwilliam Street in Dublin City Center.

[460] Great job, guys.

[461] I think there's an H &M there now.

[462] Which, again, great job.

[463] So they hang her first, and they said that it was like women didn't just get burnt at the stake.

[464] They also, like, did something beforehand.

[465] But then I was like, I saw another thing that was like they half killed her so she'd be unconscious when they burnt her because the people who loved to watch public executions didn't want to hear the screaming of the people being burnt at the stake.

[466] So they were unconscious, which is actually like better than being burnt at the steak, I would guess.

[467] And not that, you know.

[468] The specificity of that poor hangman having to hang a person so that they're only unconscious is a lot to ask.

[469] aside from the fact of what a bummer it'd be to be a hangman anyway.

[470] But then you're like, you have to get it just right.

[471] Yeah.

[472] I love that your empathy lies with the hangman.

[473] Always.

[474] Always.

[475] He's just trying to do his job.

[476] Yeah.

[477] And then go to Darkie Kelly's after and get a beer.

[478] But no. Yeah.

[479] Okay.

[480] But so...

[481] Okay.

[482] Questions.

[483] They were worried about the people that they love to see a neck snap.

[484] They don't want to hear screaming.

[485] Sure.

[486] They love to see a person on fire.

[487] They don't, it's really, like, bothering them that that person keeps shrieking.

[488] Okay.

[489] And no one can go, have you ever tried this?

[490] It's been around for years.

[491] But, okay, so that was like the story that everyone knew.

[492] It was like legend.

[493] Okay.

[494] Maybe a quarter of the people here know it based on the clapping.

[495] They're scared to clap now.

[496] There are not.

[497] There are historians that think that Dorcas might have actually been a serial killer.

[498] What?

[499] and they be the first serial killer in Ireland.

[500] Okay.

[501] I'm open to this as well.

[502] Good.

[503] And that the witchcraft story might have just been a cover -up so that the authorities could save face and not have not known that there was a serial killer working this whole time because this researcher recently named Philo Grady, he made the discovery while examining contemporary newspaper accounts in the National Archives.

[504] He was trying to find this account of her being hanged as a witch, But he couldn't.

[505] Instead, he found a woman named Dorcas Kelly, who was accused, who was the person who ran the maiden tower, who was accused of murdering a shoemaker named John Dowling on St. Patrick's Day in 1760, which was like 15 years after she was supposed to have been hung.

[506] Oh.

[507] So he sees that.

[508] She's found guilty, and that's the reason for her execution.

[509] Same fucking half -hang.

[510] Full fire.

[511] The worst combination, truly.

[512] Yeah.

[513] So it was tradition.

[514] Okay, so, wait.

[515] So he finds out that that's why she's actually hanged is because she killed this guy.

[516] Okay.

[517] And then after an execution, it was traditional for the corpse to be buried in the pit by the gallows instead of a proper burial.

[518] It was like your last shame on you.

[519] Okay.

[520] Okay.

[521] The kind you can't feel or know about it in any way.

[522] But great.

[523] So instead, these, sex workers at Maiden Tower were like, not our fucking dork as Kelly, motherfuckers.

[524] They steal her body away, and they seized her remains and stormed her broth, the brothel with her body to give her a proper wake.

[525] They're like, we're like, she's not getting buried there.

[526] We're going to take care of this.

[527] Was it the burned body?

[528] Yeah, I guess I didn't think about that.

[529] Damn!

[530] Maybe it was somehow the remains.

[531] Well, an urn.

[532] Either way.

[533] Good for them.

[534] but god damn and it got so boisterous this wake of hers with all these amazing sex workers that it turned into a riot that's happened in my family though too I swear to God I've watched my uncles outside a wedding punch strangers in the face very intense the Irish with their wakes and their weddings that sounds like fun it is very fun and a little upsetting well this one yeah I guess 13 women were arrested for disturbing the peace and damaging property They're just going out and fucking punching lamp posts and stuff Do it So then authorities were like All right let's search the Like she's dead now Let's search her vaults Which I don't know what that means Could have looked it up Sounds dirty Didn't But they go through I guess her house And they find The bodies of five murdered gentlemen Oh.

[535] So she's fucking killing people.

[536] Really?

[537] Left and right.

[538] Maybe it was customers who got unruly.

[539] Perhaps.

[540] Still.

[541] Yeah.

[542] Not the best solution.

[543] No. So she might have been the first serial killer.

[544] Oh, my God.

[545] So these rioting women are like fighting for their hero and then they come back and they're like, oh, no. Just close that and latch it.

[546] And then maybe build another door over it.

[547] I tried really hard when I was sipping my Irish coffee and later peeing in the bathroom to conjure up the spirit and be like, all right, I'm ready for a ghosty experience.

[548] Let's fucking do this.

[549] No?

[550] No. So I didn't wash my hands.

[551] Oh, I'm kidding.

[552] I'm kidding.

[553] As well, fuck you.

[554] To me, that's not true.

[555] In modern -day Dublin, there are still rumors about Dorcas Kelly's ghost stalking.

[556] the streets of Dublin.

[557] But that's middle part, man, just coming up the street at you, like, are you fucking getting me?

[558] I'm over this.

[559] Yeah.

[560] She's thought to be the green lady of St. Audens Church.

[561] You guys are sinners.

[562] Or I got that right.

[563] At Corn Market in Dublin City Center, it's a beautiful 12th century church, and there are reports that a spirit of a woman haunts only the outside of the church, never stepping foot beyond the steps of the entrance, and it said it's her because she's a woman of ill repute, so she can't go into the church or even step within the holy sanctum of the church.

[564] But who knows, let's go find her and party with her to my head.

[565] Yeah, for real.

[566] That is the story of Dorcas Kelly.

[567] Amazing.

[568] Thank you.

[569] Can you imagine how badass you'd have to be as a ghost to haunt the inside of a Catholic church?

[570] I mean, fucking intense.

[571] I bet it's like, it's pretty crowded in there for ghosts.

[572] out of my way.

[573] God, I want to know the true story of that now.

[574] I think that's the true story, because if there's accounts of her in 1760 when she was supposed to have been put to death in 1746, then that means do the math.

[575] I can do that.

[576] She's a lot.

[577] Do the math.

[578] She's a serial killer at the end.

[579] Awesome.

[580] That was great.

[581] Thank you.

[582] I tonight have decided to do the story of lying eyes Sharon Collins, and they hitman for hire.

[583] Ooh.

[584] I don't know what that noise means.

[585] Like you're all on her side.

[586] The sources for this are the Independent, the Guardian, the Irish Examiner, the Irish Times, the Los Angeles Times.

[587] Oh, all the way to Los Angeles.

[588] International story.

[589] Oh, yeah.

[590] This is a very basic version because there is so much like conspiracy and detail and stuff that basically goes on but then it actually leads to nowhere so I just didn't cover it.

[591] If you want the full, very perfectly researched and great version of this, please listen to episode 30 of the Mens Rea podcast by our friend Cheneid.

[592] It's a great podcast that's hosted from right here in Dublin and she actually tells you the information you might want to know.

[593] But if I did it, it would literally take me like an hour and a half.

[594] Because I have to do sidebars about, like, my going to junior high while I talk.

[595] So, okay, this all begins in November of 1998.

[596] So 35 -year -old Sharon Collins is a divorce mother of two from Ennis and County Claire.

[597] Here she is.

[598] It's here for County Claire.

[599] Oh, we've got a cleavage window.

[600] She went ahead.

[601] I dig it.

[602] Okay.

[603] Yes.

[604] It's like, I'm modest, except...

[605] I'm modest, but check it out.

[606] They're there.

[607] Don't forget about them.

[608] Okay.

[609] So, Sharon is working at a local furniture shop in Ennis when in -walks 45 -year -old...

[610] I'm sorry, 49 -year -old multi -millionaire, P .J. Howard.

[611] Oh, yeah.

[612] Oh, my God.

[613] Is that the guy from your story?

[614] Oh, shit.

[615] Can someone Photoshop a turban on this guy?

[616] I think...

[617] I think we know.

[618] Millionaires.

[619] Millionaires.

[620] They all look alike.

[621] So, the two hit it off immediately.

[622] And so he decides to ask her to dinner in Spain.

[623] Oh, that is a fucking baller move.

[624] That's right.

[625] Oh, God.

[626] That's pretty gross, though.

[627] You know?

[628] Oh, do you want to go to dinner?

[629] In Spain.

[630] I'm rich.

[631] I'm really rich.

[632] Yes.

[633] I'm rich, rich, rich.

[634] Yes.

[635] Oh, okay.

[636] It's all yes.

[637] Take me to Spain, for Christ's sake.

[638] I don't care if you're a creep.

[639] Get me into this furniture store.

[640] This fucking furniture store smells like pledge.

[641] Get me out of here.

[642] I'm sick of couches.

[643] So they go to Spain for dinner.

[644] And they make a weekend of it.

[645] It's a whole thing.

[646] So PJ's a widower.

[647] His wife had died two years before in 1996.

[648] Since that time, he had dated several young, blonde women.

[649] And, like, no judgments, like Sharon, PJ also had two sons.

[650] They're named Nile and Robert, and these are the sons.

[651] Oh, there's this mansion, shit.

[652] Here's this beautiful mansion.

[653] Wait, I'll leave that up.

[654] Because within a month, Sharon and her two sons have moved into this house with PJ in his, quote, plush and luxurious mansion by a lake in Enners.

[655] What's hard is when you don't know the story, so you don't know who you can talk shit on yet or you like shouldn't because like that's the victim and you don't want to be like, oh look at her cleavage window if she's like, Deb and you feel really bad about it?

[656] No, no, she's not the victim.

[657] Okay, great.

[658] Cleavage window.

[659] Look at that house.

[660] Yes.

[661] All right.

[662] Look at what a cleavage window can get you ladies.

[663] Come on.

[664] Until you lose it.

[665] So it's a romance made in heaven, right?

[666] Great.

[667] In a month.

[668] In one month.

[669] At the time, P .J. is worth about 12 million euros, or 9 .6 pounds.

[670] All meaningless.

[671] He also owns other homes in West Ireland.

[672] He also owns homes in Spain.

[673] In 2000, he decides to buy himself a boat, and he names it heartbeat after having quadruple bypass surgery.

[674] So, again, it's an Irishman with a great sense of humor.

[675] take me to Spain.

[676] Millionaires are fun and immortal.

[677] So they actually end up staying together for seven years.

[678] And pretty much the whole time Sharon would like to get married.

[679] Now the thing is, PJ is not interested in getting married because apparently the Irish law is that automatically when you get married, no matter what any kind of pre -agreement is or pre -nup or anything like that, This spouse, upon divorce, gets a third of the estate, of whatever the estate is.

[680] So PJ was like, love you, mean it.

[681] Not happening for you.

[682] Wow.

[683] You and your cleavage window get nothing.

[684] How's fucked up?

[685] Well, his whole thing is he wants to protect his son's inheritance.

[686] And he probably also wants to protect any kind of, if just in case, you know, God forbid, she might be a gold digger of some kind.

[687] So, so he just, she basically, in 2005 is like, I'd really like to get married.

[688] And he's like, I'm not going to marry you, right to her face.

[689] So they end up having, they go to Italy and they have basically kind of a ceremony, but it doesn't count.

[690] It's like, it doesn't matter.

[691] He's like, well, we can actually go through the motions and hold hands and say words.

[692] But I'm in a church.

[693] But I'm going to say, I don't take this one.

[694] Let's write our own vows.

[695] You do whatever you want.

[696] My vow is I don't.

[697] Okay, so of course, this piss is Sharon.

[698] She wants revenge.

[699] Knowing PJ's a very private, multimillionaire, she attempts to smear his reputation by sending a bunch of emails to RTE Radio in Dublin, claiming that Pete...

[700] Sure.

[701] One of the better...

[702] Better radio companies.

[703] She claims PJ sleeps with sex workers She's not doing a great job of not seeming like a gold digger at this point Yeah, that's not a good...

[704] If you're trying to prove your love is real This is not the move to me Absolutely not To the man you love so much Yeah Here's, this is my favorite part of this story When these stories break PJ either ignores them or never hears about them at all And nothing happened No one gives a shit He doesn't care You guys don't care like nothing happened the whole thing it like there was like a little murmur about it and then it all went away he's like guess what I'm still a millionaire yeah you know what I'm gonna go cry into my pool in Spain so okay so when that doesn't work she decides to take it about 1 ,000 steps further and on August 2nd 2006 oh by the way I guess I should say right here and this is the kind of thing where you know we read these stories we get these stories and because it's already happened, you tell it with a great amount of bias.

[705] Wherever you see fit, alleged.

[706] Alleged?

[707] Steven, I'm going to give you a clean alleged right now or an allegedly, and you just pop it in.

[708] Allegedly?

[709] Okay, great.

[710] Thank you.

[711] Thank you for giving me room tone on that.

[712] Thank you.

[713] It's all alleged, but this happened so long ago.

[714] Okay, so here's what she does.

[715] on August 2nd, 2006.

[716] She goes online.

[717] She finds a website called Hit Men for Hire.

[718] No. No. I'm telling you.

[719] And she uses on it, this pseudence, she logs onto it with her email address, lying eyes 98 .comyahoo.

[720] Wow.

[721] That's a reference to the Eagle's song.

[722] You can't hide.

[723] You're lying.

[724] guys, it's a wonderful ballad about a woman who chooses money over love.

[725] Again, she's just creating her of the argument against herself the entire time.

[726] Definitely.

[727] I feel like at the holidays this year, you're going home and you're worried about, and I don't know if you guys have as much of this problem here as we do in America.

[728] But a lot of times these days, young people go home and they're worried about having to have the holidays with their parents who have become politically insane.

[729] Instead of arguing about politics, why don't you take an hour and just explain to your parents how the internet actually works, how it is a permanent digital record that never goes away.

[730] There is no secrets.

[731] There is no hiding.

[732] You can't just do stuff.

[733] Making up an email and using a fake name doesn't mean it's never going to get traced back to you.

[734] Listening to the Eagles isn't a great idea.

[735] There's all these things you should tell your parents that they don't know.

[736] The word password is not a great password.

[737] Yes.

[738] Your cat's name, your grandchildren's name.

[739] One, two, three, four, five is not a good password.

[740] Um, okay.

[741] That's just editorializing.

[742] She contacts a man named Tony Luciano.

[743] Oh, come on.

[744] It's like, if you, what's it called when you mash it up and it says, police officer.

[745] We're the guard.

[746] Hey, what's up?

[747] It's the Garty.

[748] Let's see, I want to hire a hit, man. Should I pick Carmela Soprano?

[749] No. I mean, Jesus.

[750] Okay, so she starts talking to this guy online.

[751] Again, a great thing to point out to your parents.

[752] If you meet someone online, just because they have a picture and a name doesn't mean that that person is that picture or that name.

[753] Dad, if you're listening to this right now, Please listen to what Karen just said.

[754] Marty, this message is for you.

[755] Break it to your parents that there are liars.

[756] Okay.

[757] So she proposes a plan to Tony Luciano.

[758] She wants a hitman to kill PJ's son, Robert and Nile.

[759] Wait, they're not together anymore, right?

[760] They broke up?

[761] No, no, they're still together.

[762] What?

[763] Yeah.

[764] But he's just like, I love you, hang out in my multi -room mansion by the lake.

[765] but I just don't want to marry you because I don't want to have to give you tons and tons of my money that belongs to my sons.

[766] Got it.

[767] And she's like, okay.

[768] And then goes right into the computer room and all hell brace loose has three glasses of white wine.

[769] And then she's like, I'm talking to Tony Luciano.

[770] You'll pay.

[771] But with a brogue.

[772] Okay, so she wants this hitman to kill PJ's sons.

[773] And then by poisoning them, and then push PJ out the window of his 14 -story Spanish apartment at penthouse.

[774] Oh, God.

[775] So it looks like he committed suicide.

[776] All in an email.

[777] An email.

[778] Emails are forever, Dad.

[779] Okay, so Tony Luciano and Sharon, they write back and forth for like two months plotting out this hit on the Howard family.

[780] She confides in Tony, a stranger she's never met in person.

[781] who she's talking to online recording her illegal activity telling him she yes she does want his money but that's not her main motivation she says PJ keeps trying to get her to sleep with strangers and she doesn't want to and there's one email she writes quote I've no conscience about my husband he's a real asshole and he makes my life hell but I do feel bad about the others the sons his son his two sons Yes, the others.

[782] However, I thought about it long and hard, and I realized it's necessary, or there's no advantage to getting rid of my husband, other than not having to look at his miserable face again.

[783] Oh, my God.

[784] But I must be sure that I will be okay financially.

[785] End quote.

[786] Now, this makes me think of every horrible email I've casually written to a friend about someone else that I don't like.

[787] It's forever.

[788] And eventually there will be a data breach on either Yahoo or wherever the hell you have your emails.

[789] And you know there's, I don't know if you guys remember, but there was a data breach at Sony like two years ago where every email in the Sony that had like Sony .com basically became public.

[790] And I have friends, that's what they do at night for fun, is read Sony emails.

[791] No joke.

[792] And then every once in a while someone will find a really bad one and they'll put it online.

[793] And it's just like, can you believe how that Julia Robb?

[794] It's some bullshit that some dumb, you know, executive wrote.

[795] And it's permanent.

[796] Okay.

[797] This is why if we're going to talk shit, do it face to face.

[798] You've got to meet at a pub.

[799] We don't have to tell you this.

[800] Go sit at the kitchen table and invite someone over.

[801] These email exchanges continue for two months over the, because she's really making friends with Tony Luciano.

[802] She, at certain point, wires 15 ,000 euros to him to pay for, like, as a deposit for this hit.

[803] Then she goes on another dark website and buys herself a fake marriage certificate, naming herself Sharon Howard for a thousand euros.

[804] So she's basically trying to set up a thing of like, well, I didn't do it.

[805] We're already married.

[806] Even though, so if he was dead, they would be like, oh, they had a private secret ceremony.

[807] Yeah, here's your check.

[808] Yeah.

[809] Okay.

[810] Oh, I just wrote here, this part of the story made me want to make a TV show called Old People on the Dark Web.

[811] And it'll just be about a bunch of old people who don't understand how the Internet works, making terrible decisions, and immediately getting caught for them.

[812] I'd watch that.

[813] That's some fucking TGIF right there.

[814] I had no idea.

[815] They were tracing my email.

[816] No, it doesn't work.

[817] It's all traced.

[818] Okay.

[819] So everything looks like it's coming together for Sharon.

[820] But at the end of September of 2006, Tony Luchin, he has a change of heart.

[821] So instead of caring, and this is the part where it gets very intensely confusing.

[822] So I'm just, this is so oversimplified, it's crazy.

[823] But instead of carrying out the murders as agreed, he flies to West Ireland and hatches a plan to blackmail Sharon Collins and her rich boyfriend.

[824] So Tony manages to steal two laptops from.

[825] PJ Howard's home and the next day he anonymously contacts the sons Robert and Nile and tells them there's an assassination plot in place to have them killed and that he he's being paid 130 ,000 euros to kill them but he will cancel the plan for the low low price of 100 ,000 euros that's right I'll knock off 30 ,000 euros and not kill you Because I'm Tony Luciano That's what we do here, Luciano Today only, today, today, today, today.

[826] Call right now to not get killed.

[827] So, of course, immediately after receiving this message, PJ's son Robert calls the police and he's like, guess what, a crazy person has contacted me. They traced the message back exactly to Tony and...

[828] Right?

[829] How it was.

[830] actually works, the dark web is a fantasy, and they set up a surveillance operation to find him.

[831] So in September of 2006, the police actually undercover officers pose as the Howard's sons, and they make arrangements to meet Tony Luciano at the Queen's Hotel and pay him the ransom money.

[832] And of course, when he shows up, also not a great hit man to make a plan like this.

[833] Are you like, yeah, can we do it out in the open?

[834] Hopefully, do you have CCTV there?

[835] Oh, good, yeah, yeah.

[836] Let's do it under one of those.

[837] Meet me at the CCTV camera on the corner of dumb and ass.

[838] So, when the hitman with the heart of gold shows up, they immediately arrest him, of course.

[839] And that's when they discovered that his name is not Tony Lucciano.

[840] He's 51 -year -old.

[841] I think, wait, we have the son's picture, I think, yeah.

[842] Okay.

[843] Okay.

[844] So Nile and Robert basically now have to be involved in their own anti -murder plot.

[845] They all look real happy about it.

[846] Yeah.

[847] That's how it is, millionaires.

[848] Get used to it.

[849] So actually, totally Luciano, is 51 -year -old Las Vegas poker dealer, Assam Eid.

[850] All right.

[851] He's stoked, too.

[852] He's stoked, too.

[853] Yeah, he loves it.

[854] He's loving life.

[855] He's like, I got my awesome windbreaker on, and I'm ready to go to court.

[856] Tony, Lucian.

[857] So he's originally from Egypt, but he moved to Las Vegas to work at the Blasio, hotel and casino.

[858] Gosh.

[859] That was a loud art. He has a wife and a daughter in college, seemingly just kind of a regular old poker dealer.

[860] So the Gardee contacts authorities in America, federal agents go to EAD's Las Vegas home.

[861] They seize his computer, and of course, is poorly crafted and laughably, obvious website, hitmanforhire .com.

[862] Oh, it's his?

[863] He started?

[864] Yes.

[865] It was paid for with his credit card.

[866] Oh my God.

[867] I told you to ask me before you set up your hitman website.

[868] That's embarrassing.

[869] It's so nerdy.

[870] Okay, so when the police search the messages, they find people from all over the world have contacted Eid to try to pay him money to carry out their desired hits.

[871] So many old people.

[872] Hirehitman .com.

[873] I just can't take her anymore.

[874] Oh, my God.

[875] I know I'm 75, but God damn it, she bugs me. Okay.

[876] He had actually been wired money from some of the people.

[877] Wow.

[878] So hit men for hire was a great idea.

[879] I mean, it was like the new YouTube.

[880] The Irish police, of course, zero in on Eid's Irish contact, someone with the email address, lyingeyes98.

[881] Yahoo .I .E., and they easily trace that email back to Sharon Collins.

[882] So she is arrested in July of 2008 on conspiracy to commit murder and soliciting the hitman.

[883] As it turns out, just because you're in your den, sending emails doesn't mean that you're not actually committing a federal crime.

[884] It's a big deal.

[885] So throughout the course of the trial, Sharon actually suggests that, you're not maybe it was Nile and Robert who were setting her up to keep her away from their dad's money which is a little, it's pretty fucked up.

[886] Yeah.

[887] She never directly accuses them but basically her defense is based on them, the defense asking the sons like, didn't you set up this email and like all this shit that's really fucked up?

[888] She basically, she doesn't do it directly herself, but she is asked, do you think they did it?

[889] And she says it's possible.

[890] so yeah basically I'm I just got caught for a bad thing I did therefore you did it the Donald Trump story okay that's the new thing that's the new thing everyone's doing these days oh did we get proven that we did a bad thing you did it yeah you did it and you're doing it every day oh okay okay so PJ sons Robert Nile both give witness statements and they basically tell the court that this whole ordeal has been horrible for them and impacted them very badly but when PJ takes the stand he surprisingly stands by Sharon.

[891] Oh no. In court he defends her he says she's a good woman who takes care of him.

[892] He believes she would never do anything to harm him and when he comes down from the witness stand he crosses the courtroom and kisses her on the lips.

[893] I mean you'd think at what point is he going to be like I'm going to break up with her You know what I mean?

[894] Like, you got to...

[895] I don't know.

[896] After 32 days of testimony, 90 witnesses, 10 hours of deliberation by a jury of eight men and four women, Collins is found guilty on all counts.

[897] So on November 3rd, 2008, Sharon Collins is sentenced to six years at Mount Joy Women's Prison.

[898] Right?

[899] Is that the best one?

[900] Of all the women's prison, that's the one with the spa.

[901] Mount Joy.

[902] Assam Ed is found guilty also of extortion and burglary, but he's acquitted of the solicitation of murder charge.

[903] Because he was like, I wasn't going to do it.

[904] Well, he didn't.

[905] Yeah?

[906] Like, he was like, I did decide not to do it, everybody.

[907] Can I have some credit for that?

[908] I mean.

[909] No. He cannot.

[910] He sentenced to six years in Irish prison, after which he's extradited to the U .S. to serve another three years there for all of his other website dealings.

[911] where he's in Vegas prison and he's the car dealer so everyone loves him there was a rad poker game going in that prison he's like good luck players don't shiv me Sharon Collins ends up serving three years and nine months and is released in September of 2012 okay yeah she's out since she has been released she's moved to Belfast she's working different reports as a massage therapist dog walker according to latest reports she's taken up salsa dancing there's a lot of coverage about Sharon Collins she's living her life she's like you know what now that I'm out I'm really gonna go after what I've always wanted to do salsa dancing yeah which is like okay well seven reporters are going to follow you to that salsa dancing class and then talk about it she's been hounded and by continued press coverage since her release she's had to rename her dog walking business twice And then she's like, damn it, I love that name.

[912] I'm sorry for this joke, but what if she named it hire a shit man?

[913] And that is her holding one of those little doggy bag, pickup bags?

[914] I'll be your shit man. Do not clap her a joke like that.

[915] That was terribly done by me. I love it.

[916] Getting mad at your joke.

[917] You're supposed to be better than that, Ireland.

[918] Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

[919] So in 2015, she gave an interview to the Sunday Independent, and she told them, through, quote, tear -filled eyes, everyone deserves a second chance.

[920] I should be able to get on with my life.

[921] But Asam Eid does not agree.

[922] He told this Sunday World newspaper, second chances are for people who admit what they have done.

[923] Sharon never admitted what she did.

[924] So for her, there should be no second chance.

[925] I admitted what I did.

[926] So yes, I deserve a second chance.

[927] We're asking for second chance is going to decide.

[928] It's like a nickname.

[929] You don't give yourself a nickname and you don't decide if you get a second chance.

[930] Yeah, you're exactly right.

[931] That's exactly right.

[932] So, right?

[933] promo code murder.

[934] After serving eight years in prison, Assad Eam returned to his native Egypt and now he's getting a second chance with his new job.

[935] as a cattle farmer.

[936] Ooh.

[937] And that is the insane story of lying eyes, Susan Collins, and her hit man for hire.

[938] That was great.

[939] Highly oversimplified.

[940] Highly oversimplified.

[941] I mean, I can't imagine what more, like what more there is to tell.

[942] Well, there's other people, and there's accusations, and it's a really genuinely crazy story.

[943] Okay.

[944] That was great.

[945] Thank you.

[946] Thanks.

[947] I had fun doing it.

[948] Do we have time?

[949] I think we do.

[950] It's time.

[951] Tour has been.

[952] He's the band who got us here.

[953] He makes these tours work.

[954] Yes.

[955] And several ladies and gentlemen.

[956] But this whole time, so we have to have like a tag for people who are allowed to come backstage in this whole tour.

[957] It's been a photo of Mimi, my cat.

[958] Elvis gets all the heat.

[959] Mimi needs a little, you know.

[960] She deserves some.

[961] That's right.

[962] Yeah.

[963] Well, with all the opportunities to get shit -faced in this town, I made it here tonight without getting shit -faced.

[964] Thank you.

[965] I'll be right over there.

[966] Okay, thank you.

[967] Thank you.

[968] Bye.

[969] Pick for the hometown.

[970] I'd just like to do, I'd give a warning, actually.

[971] Because when we were in Glasgow, Georgia picked someone and it turned out to be an American.

[972] No one wants that.

[973] Americans who have flown over.

[974] We know it's special and a big deal.

[975] And you went out of your way and you're here with us.

[976] We love you for coming.

[977] stay away.

[978] They booed her.

[979] They booed her, but then she brought up her...

[980] I kind of made them boo her, though.

[981] She brought up her husband.

[982] We couldn't understand a fucking word.

[983] He said, it was great.

[984] It was perfect.

[985] We got a real Scotsman up there and everything worked out.

[986] So please, if you have a hometown and you are from the Great State of Ireland, I don't know what that fucking accent is.

[987] That was total insanity.

[988] Please make sure it has a beginning.

[989] middle and end and being the most important part um and please make sure that you're not so drunk that you can't tell your own story that's happened a couple times yeah and um and just you know make it good make sure that you're the one that has the good one yeah and a good one okay george will pick does anyone have a hometown murder that they would like to share with us yeah you get that yeah sure let's do it but yeah there's Vince I love this goddamn play oh my god hi guys Hi.

[990] All good up there, everything.

[991] On the sides.

[992] Guys, we're having so much fun here.

[993] I bought two vintage dresses today.

[994] Oh, yeah?

[995] Brought them home, neither of them fit.

[996] What's up?

[997] That's what it's all about.

[998] Okay, can we get the lights on?

[999] Rebecca, where are you from?

[1000] At Dublin.

[1001] All right.

[1002] Oh, that's a good sweater.

[1003] I know.

[1004] I like this outfit.

[1005] Sorry, I didn't wear any makeup as a therapy.

[1006] It looks great.

[1007] Yeah, you look great.

[1008] You look great.

[1009] I actually kind of hate you that you don't have makeup on right now.

[1010] Okay, tell your story.

[1011] Okay, so my little sister and I listen to my older sister, she's not here, listen to podcasts, so we wrote my man with us.

[1012] Oh, hi.

[1013] And she now listens to her, too.

[1014] We brought her last time, and she really wanted us to get and say the hometown early that she used to say to scare us.

[1015] Oh.

[1016] Oh.

[1017] She didn't want us to walk out through the park on our own when we were coming back in town and stuff.

[1018] so basically when she was on holidays when she was younger in the 80s someone came up to her and said Denise Flanagan has been murdered and my mom was like what so she was a girl who went to school with my mom so basically when Denise was out one night she was out with a bunch of friends she got separated from friends and she got a taxi home with a man that she didn't know she never arrived home and on the Sunday morning she was found dead, not very happily raped, mutilated and murdered at the end of an alleyway right next to the primary school that they'd gone to.

[1019] So it was Sunday, so no kids found her or anything, it was an adult.

[1020] But there was no DNA, there was no cameras, they didn't know how to find him, but he left his glasses behind.

[1021] And in one episode, Karen, I think it was in the 70s you said that's how you would get called for murder.

[1022] you get your glasses.

[1023] It's very true.

[1024] I left three pairs of glasses on planes.

[1025] Not good.

[1026] That's exactly how they called him.

[1027] There, you know, there was no spec savers at the time.

[1028] It was only family.

[1029] It was just like, it was just family opticians.

[1030] So they went round to them.

[1031] They brought the glasses.

[1032] They had the prescription and they found him through his prescription.

[1033] Oh my gosh.

[1034] So now he did have some kind of mental illness, unfortunately.

[1035] So he did serve six years in kind of a mental institution.

[1036] And he was released afterwards.

[1037] But, yeah, unfortunately, that was the murder of Denise Lannigan that my mom used to tell, so we wouldn't tell.

[1038] Oh, my God.

[1039] That's so good.

[1040] Beautifully done.

[1041] Great job.

[1042] Rebecca, everybody, hometown.

[1043] Mending Dublin.

[1044] Rebecca nailing it.

[1045] I'm going to steal that sweater from her.

[1046] I swear to God.

[1047] Thank God for mothers telling their children horrible stories, or we wouldn't have the podcast.

[1048] That's true.

[1049] Real.

[1050] For real.

[1051] Also, that's kind of one of the more beautiful things when we do meet and greets.

[1052] We get to meet some people up close.

[1053] There's nothing better than when two girls walk in and are like, this is our mom.

[1054] She was the original murdervino.

[1055] It's the best.

[1056] This has been going on so much longer than we have been a part of it.

[1057] But the fact that we get to do these tours, the fact that we get to travel internationally and do this bullshit for an hour and you pay money and you sell out two nights at this gorgeous theater.

[1058] We are so lucky.

[1059] Thank you so, so much for participating in this with us.

[1060] We're truly honored to be here.

[1061] Thank you guys.

[1062] It's an honor.

[1063] It's a real honor.

[1064] It's so fun.

[1065] Stay saved and do God's missions, of course.

[1066] Especially this time of year.

[1067] It's very important around the holidays.

[1068] But more than that, stay sexy.

[1069] And don't get