#642 - Rich Roll

[0] Are we live?

[1] Yeah.

[2] Oh, my goodness.

[3] Rich Roll, ladies and gentlemen.

[4] How are you, buddy?

[5] Good, man. Good to see you.

[6] What's cracking?

[7] Happy to be here, man. I'm drinking green juice.

[8] I know.

[9] I hope that's in my honor.

[10] Sort of.

[11] I drink it every day.

[12] I appreciate that.

[13] It helps.

[14] Where did you pick that up?

[15] Juicy lady.

[16] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[17] You know where that is?

[18] I do.

[19] I go there all the time.

[20] I love that place.

[21] Yeah, me too.

[22] I wish I changed the name of it, but, uh, juicy ladies.

[23] I don't know.

[24] Why?

[25] I think a lady owns it?

[26] Yeah, no, she's cool, actually.

[27] Maybe she's juicy?

[28] Yeah, the food there is pretty good.

[29] It's a little sexual.

[30] Yeah.

[31] The name, right?

[32] Is it an assault to your masculinity?

[33] No, no, I'm cool with it, but some weaker men might have an issue.

[34] Yeah, you have to be self -assured.

[35] You have to be strong enough to go in there and order vegan food.

[36] They do, but they make a good green juice.

[37] Yeah, they make a lot of good stuff there.

[38] It's a good spot.

[39] Well, there's more and more of those places that are opening up.

[40] It's true.

[41] McDonald's is going to offer a kale shake.

[42] No way.

[43] I have not heard that.

[44] The world's changing.

[45] Something's working.

[46] People are getting nutrients in their body.

[47] It's crazy.

[48] Starbucks has them now.

[49] Starbucks has what?

[50] Cale shakes.

[51] Get the fuck out of here.

[52] I didn't know that.

[53] Get the fuck out of here.

[54] Evo green things.

[55] Mix it up with yogurt and fresh kale if you want it to.

[56] But why would they put yogurt in it?

[57] I don't know.

[58] Because it's smooth.

[59] It makes it a smoothie.

[60] But Starbucks.

[61] Yeah, yeah.

[62] Makes it a smoothie.

[63] Well, you know, the market will dictate it if people want it.

[64] Yeah.

[65] It's sort of like when you talk about conspiracy theories with evil corporations.

[66] It's like they're responding to what people want, you know.

[67] That is true.

[68] If people want it, they're going to start making it.

[69] That's the whole conspiracy with, like, really shitty television shows, too.

[70] Like, people are like, man, they're trying to make us dumb.

[71] Nope, we're already dumb.

[72] Yeah.

[73] All you have to do is look at the ratings and see what people are actually watching, and they're responding to that.

[74] Well, people are tired.

[75] They get home from work.

[76] They're exhausted.

[77] They don't want to watch Cosmos.

[78] Or some of them do.

[79] I do.

[80] But some people just want to, they just want to zone out and watch Honey Boo Boo Boo or I don't think that's on anymore, right?

[81] Is it not a lot anymore?

[82] There's always a new one.

[83] but yeah we uh we got rid of our TVs what yeah like who are you like a year ago but believe me I did not want to do it it was not my idea I was uh I was quite vociferous and opposing that idea that was my wife's idea but actually it's just like anything else you adjust to it I mean I still watch Netflix and I watch the shows I like to watch and now I don't I don't miss it and I have total like when I've been traveling a lot and you know when you're in hotel rooms you turn the TV on and I have a zero tolerance policy for commercials now like I just can't even I'm like really you know and I just turn the TV off and go back online yeah commercials are fucking brutal whoever invented the idea of stopping a show every 15 minutes for three minutes or whatever the hell it is for commercials that's awful well it's crazy how you acclimate to that because as a kid you know think about how many hours of your life you know we're just basically watching commercials well you know what happened though DVRs.

[84] DVR has made commercials really stupid.

[85] But that's still, I mean, we're about the same age, right?

[86] So that's still a recent development in our life.

[87] You know, most of our formative years was terrible television commercials.

[88] Yeah, I got my first TiVo in the early 2000s.

[89] It was like a standalone unit that hooked up to direct TV.

[90] I think it was, I want to say, like, 2003 or something like that.

[91] And I was like, this is amazing.

[92] You can pause the TV.

[93] You know, you can pause it.

[94] You go take a leak.

[95] you could record things you could find search things and have them on a schedule because I fucking I had probably 10 VCRs in my life and never figured out how to record one of those bitches like flashing 12 o 'clock I never scheduled one of them I never had one of them scheduled I don't think anybody figured that out some people must have but it's it's cool how it's changing I mean you know to see how how you know what's going on with Netflix and Amazon and all that kind of stuff and most recently what Tim Ferriss has done with his show have you followed that at all which what did so so Tim had a show called the Tim Ferriss experiment and it aired on i can't remember what what yeah it was like it was a it was like another channel that was part of the CNN family like headline news or something yeah it wasn't headline news it was something like it went under right and so his show was i don't know how many episodes it aired but certainly not the entire 13 you know of the season and then it was just you know how it is an entertainment it like you're just done right they own the show and even though they were all taped and locked and and completed nobody had seen them and somehow he was able to get get his show back and he he I don't know you know through lawyering or what what have you and bought the rights back got his show and cut a deal with iTunes and it's premiered on iTunes this past week and I think it's like the top ranked TV show on iTunes now you can download the entire season I wonder their TV show rankings though or just like their podcast rankings, you know.

[96] Well, who knows how the iTunes algorithm works?

[97] Well, it does.

[98] It's definitely not based on the number of downloads.

[99] No, it's definitely not.

[100] It's based on new, like it knew, it takes precedent, new subscribers, and also comments.

[101] So like Chelsea Peretti had the number one podcast in the country, and she hadn't even released an episode yet.

[102] Right.

[103] So zero had been downloaded because people had subscribed.

[104] They over -inflate new shows, so when somebody premieres a show with one or two episodes, it's like super high up for a while before it settles into where it should be.

[105] Well, I think that's good because it doesn't keep anybody from downloading other shows that are already popular, and it does give new shows like a window, but like you'll see people, I'm number one, like you'll see like these brands, like, come on, man, like, do you know what that means?

[106] Like, what are your numbers?

[107] How many downloads are you yet?

[108] Because you're definitely not number one there.

[109] It's weird.

[110] The rankings is weird.

[111] It goes all over the place.

[112] Like my show this week, it's got a banner, you know, on the top carousel of iTunes on the iTunes homepage for podcasts.

[113] So my numbers went way up this week, you know, in overall rankings.

[114] But I know that's not real.

[115] You know, it'll settle back down.

[116] It will, but it won't.

[117] You know, it will, but it'll build.

[118] You know, I remember when we first started doing this podcast, I don't know what our downloads were.

[119] There were nothing, though.

[120] It was like, you know, a few thousand here or there.

[121] And then one day was like, oh, we're getting a million downloads a month.

[122] What?

[123] A million.

[124] And now it's somewhere around 14 million.

[125] Is it really?

[126] Yeah.

[127] What's your average download per show?

[128] Can you talk about that?

[129] It depends on the show, but there's all the different thing.

[130] There's iTunes.

[131] Then there's the raw MP3 that you can download.

[132] There's Stitcher, which is really hard to track.

[133] Yeah, you don't know what's going on there.

[134] Stitcher only takes one.

[135] They'll give you numbers, but, you know, chase it down.

[136] What they do is Stitcher is an application for cell phones that allows, they take a podcast, and they lower the bit rate, they're making a much smaller file, and then they, so they only download one episode.

[137] But then it gets distributed through their system, you know, I don't know how many times.

[138] So then there's that, then there's Ustream, which is a few thousand usually, and then there's YouTube, which is tens, if, not hundreds of thousands, usually hundreds of thousands.

[139] And then, it's never tens of thousands.

[140] And then Vimeo.

[141] So altogether, it's usually around a million an episode, depending upon the episode.

[142] That's crazy.

[143] Yeah, could be more.

[144] So crazy numbers.

[145] You know.

[146] Powerful jewelry.

[147] Well, it's just a number thing.

[148] It's just, you keep doing it.

[149] Have interesting people like, rich roll, ladies and gentlemen.

[150] Have interesting people on.

[151] have funny conversations, fun conversations, and just keep doing it, you know, and it builds.

[152] I just listened to your episode with Sam Harris from the other day, and it's just, that guy's captivating.

[153] Yeah, he's such an interesting dude.

[154] He's a very intelligent, very cool guy.

[155] I want to get him together with Abby Martin, though.

[156] Abby's not down.

[157] Get him both in the same room.

[158] I'm sure your phone rang from her after that show.

[159] I got a few text messages.

[160] We went back and forth.

[161] She's my friend.

[162] I'm very good friends with her, and I'm good friends with Sam, too.

[163] I like both of them.

[164] Well, Sam's got a next level brain.

[165] Yeah, he's very smart.

[166] Whether you agree with him or not, he has an incredible acuity to present an argument and support it and communicate it in a very clear and calm way.

[167] He's also very honest.

[168] You know, like if he's communicating an argument, he is not doing it to be deceptive.

[169] These are his actual feelings and thoughts and agree with them or not agree with them.

[170] This is his point of view.

[171] And as is hers, you know, I mean, I respect both of them very much.

[172] I'm in the middle between both them as well.

[173] I'm not necessarily 100 % her side.

[174] I'm not necessarily 100 % his side.

[175] It's a you know, you're talking about death and war and anytime you can find any way to minimize or trivialize that, it's easily open for argument or open for criticism.

[176] So that's where I see her point of view, but I also see his point of view.

[177] There's a lot of fucking crazy people in the world.

[178] A lot of awful, terrible people.

[179] There's a lot of really dangerous ideologies that are being passed around and have been passed around for a long time and the people that are embedded in these ideologies are married to them they're very very committed to it and you know i see his point of view he knows what he's talking about and so does she so it's it's crazy you know well a couple things i mean first of all i'm always impressed with how you kind of navigate the treacherous waters of having guests on that you may disagree with which may be me today i don't know but you know sort of you'll you'll have people with differing point of view, sometimes extreme, sometimes not, and the way that you kind of have to gracefully, like as a podcast host myself, that's always a challenge, you know, like how do you have a respectful, engaging conversation, but also make sure that you're asking the right questions so that you're not just people pleasing the whole time.

[180] Well, I don't think there's anything wrong with disagreeing with someone, you know, and I don't think there's anything wrong with having a pleasant conversation with someone whose views you don't share.

[181] I think two people can be diametrically opposed on certain issues, but still be nice to each other.

[182] I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[183] And I think when I talk to someone who doesn't share my opinions or has differing opinions, I try to relax whatever part of me wants to argue with that and just try to figure out, what is it, where are they coming from?

[184] You know, what's their point of view based on?

[185] Is it logical?

[186] Is it emotional?

[187] Is it objective?

[188] Is it non?

[189] You know, what, where, where, where, where are they at you know and also I like to play like sometimes people say yeah but you ask this you ask that like sometimes I'll ask people things that I don't even I don't even believe what I'm saying what I'm trying to do is either play devil's advocate or argue the counterpoint just to try to figure out where they're at right and try to cover all the bases because especially when it comes to a controversial issue you know you want you want to explore not just where a person's at like what what they're trying to say, but how did they come to that conclusion?

[190] Right.

[191] And in the case of Sam, I mean, he's traveled extensively.

[192] He has firsthand experience with all these kinds of people.

[193] So he has a basis from where, you know, for where he's coming from.

[194] I was actually a funny story about him.

[195] I've never met him.

[196] I don't know him.

[197] But we were classmates.

[198] We were in the same freshman class in college at Stanford.

[199] And I don't, like I said, I don't know him, but we have mutual friends in common.

[200] A couple guys that I'm close with that he's still close with.

[201] And I was talking to one of them recently, and he just said, we were talking about Sam because he's blown up and he's everywhere.

[202] And, you know, he's so in zeitgeist right now.

[203] And he was telling me that in some freshman, I don't know if it was a freshman English class or something like that, that he, that Sam just distinguished himself immediately, like by challenging the professor and just everybody knew that he was on a number.

[204] level intellectually you know at a young age well it's got to be very difficult if you're in college and you're taking classes from a person that you think is a dumbass which does happen right right i mean i had it happen in college i can clearly remember i forget what class it was in but i can clearly remember going oh all right well now i have to just think only of the information the the actual numbers and the data that's being presented in this class and ignore this person's opinion because they're a fucking idiot.

[205] It was, I believe it was either a philosophy class or a psychology class.

[206] I don't even remember the exact circumstance, but I remember thinking, like, yeah, this is a real issue.

[207] And then as I got older, and I started paying attention to some of the things that get taught in school and some of the, like, very rigid ideologies that some people, especially, like, really super lefties, like to impose on students and some of the ideas they try to impose on students.

[208] It's a very subjective idea.

[209] is.

[210] You know, very, very much personal opinions.

[211] They get stuffed into kids heads.

[212] And then, you know, it becomes an issue of whether or not, you know, whether or not you want that in your head, whether or not, I mean, are you going to get an A in this class if you disagree with this guy, but still present good arguments, or are you going to have to go along with the way this person is trying to portray the world in order to be graded accordingly?

[213] I don't think critical thought is really taught to the extent that it should be.

[214] in young people.

[215] You know, we're on this, you know, our education system is about, you know, getting through as much information as possible and standardized testing and, you know, getting good grades and all that kind of thing.

[216] And, you know, the idea that you should be questioning the ideas that are presented to you is really not something that is, you know, part of that world to the extent that I think it should be.

[217] I agree.

[218] And I also think that there's very little being taught, especially at a high school level, of how to think.

[219] and not just like this is mathematics this is the way you calculate things this is these are the facts of history that we're aware of instead of how do you deal with problems how do you address interpersonal relationships how do you how do you look at yourself objectively do you ever step back and try to look at yourself the way maybe someone else would and judge yourself your own actions instead of protecting yourself with your ego and all those things that people do like almost naturally to protect themselves really wind up being traps they really wind up fucking you up and you have to kind of clean up that mess as you get older well i mean i guess that's supposed to be on the parents uh but you know what i mean they don't know what i do it either good luck with that especially you know life skills what about just you know learning how to navigate this crazy world that we're living in.

[220] How about learning how to eat?

[221] For me, the most important thing, you know, as a parent, it's like, I want my kids to be excited about life and to be excited about something, to figure out a way to be passionate about something.

[222] Because if they have that motor, that drive, that is like half the game right there.

[223] It really is, right?

[224] And then also to have that ability to critically, you know, to want to learn.

[225] The desire to learn is much more important than whatever you're learning.

[226] Yeah, I agree.

[227] So how do you make your kid enthusiastic about that?

[228] that, especially when they're getting beaten down.

[229] You've got to find whatever it is that they're drawn to, right?

[230] Yeah.

[231] So you expose them to a lot of things, and then when they find something that they kind of gravitate towards, your job is to support that.

[232] At least that's how I see it.

[233] Yeah, and then give them the opportunity to switch gears, too.

[234] I remember when I was a kid, I would be into a lot of different things, and my parents would always be, like, super resistant if I got into something else.

[235] They'd be like, well, what about the other thing that you do?

[236] And I'm like, well, I want to do this now.

[237] Stop fucking with me. What were you into?

[238] Well, initially, I was really into art. Yeah, you're a crazy drawer.

[239] That's what I used to do.

[240] Yeah, all day long.

[241] When I was really young, I wanted to be a comic book illustrator.

[242] So I used to draw a lot.

[243] And then when I was in my teenage years, I discovered martial arts.

[244] And that's all I wanted to do.

[245] And my parents were like, why do you want to do that?

[246] Like, why are you doing that when you used to do this?

[247] I'm like, because that's what I like now.

[248] Can I just like the?

[249] Also, that presupposes that you have to make a choice between two things.

[250] Like, why do you have to define yourself by one of those?

[251] Why couldn't you be my dad?

[252] What happened?

[253] Where were you?

[254] When my mom was hot.

[255] Yeah, I think there's, you know, a lot of it is people, you know, they're raising their kids.

[256] They just want the best for their kids.

[257] They just maybe don't have the best ideas.

[258] You know, they don't necessarily know.

[259] And it's also like, I mean, I was born in 1967.

[260] So my parents were basically cave people.

[261] I mean, let's be realistic.

[262] Like, people that were, if you're born in 67, that means your parents were, if my parents were born in like 47, right?

[263] My mom was like 20 when she had me. So, 19447, that's fucking World War II, dude.

[264] That means that her parents were born during World War I. Her parents came over on the boat from Italy.

[265] It's, they're savages.

[266] They're basically, they might as well be Magellan.

[267] Right.

[268] Well, they're two, I mean, I was born in 66, so same, you know, same basic idea.

[269] My parents, you know, they're too old to have been part of kind of 60s subculture.

[270] So they kind of missed that part.

[271] Oh, right.

[272] But too young to kind of be 70s vibe also.

[273] So there's sort of a weird, like, light dusting of madmen era on them, you know.

[274] And they're great people.

[275] I love my parents, you know, they're, they're, they're, they did, you know, the best job that they could raising me and we're close and all that kind of stuff.

[276] But, but they live, you know, they don't understand.

[277] They have a, they have a challenge trying to understand, like, what I'm doing now.

[278] Really?

[279] They try, yeah, like, and they're happy that I'm, that I'm happy.

[280] But it's very, you know, they're coming from a generation where, you know, look, I grew up in a really education -focused household.

[281] And I tried to, my best, to live up to that.

[282] And to some extent, I succeeded at that.

[283] But the whole idea was premised on, you know, this myth of the American dream, you know, study hard, get into the best school, get into the best graduate school, get the best job you can, you know, work hard and like do as you're told and ascend the ladder.

[284] And the implicit promise, you know, at the end of that rainbow, of course, is not only, you know, sort of security and prosperity, but happiness.

[285] Yeah.

[286] And for me, I chased that without ever really, without those critical thinking skills because I never really intuited that.

[287] I was just so focused on the prize and I'm very disciplined and determined.

[288] But I wasn't able to step outside the box and look at it analytically in comparison to, you know, what would be best for me?

[289] Like I never said, what do I want?

[290] It was just, this is what you do.

[291] This is how you get ahead.

[292] This is how you have a good life.

[293] I think there's also.

[294] So it's not their fault.

[295] Sure.

[296] It's definitely not their fault.

[297] The amount of information that they had available to them back then in comparison to what we have today is unbelievably different now.

[298] There's so much more information now.

[299] And I think there's also a very, there's a real lack of understanding of the landscape of the race you're in.

[300] Like everybody wants to think of it as a race, the rat race.

[301] But if you could get an aerial view of the actual race from birth to death, from the time you're born, to the time you leave this planet and look at it as like you're looking at a Formula One racetrack and you can actually see the course you'd be like oh fucking Jesus Christ what am I doing here I'm wasting all my time doing shit I don't want to do this race is not very long this race is gonna end like this is oh fuck I thought it I thought there's like a happiness truck somewhere along the line that I was gonna refuel with and well it's this idea my tires when I get my PhD it's the idea that you're going to arrive at some point or that you're going to land in this destination that is called success or happiness and when you get to our age you realize that that's just that's an illusion right it just continues and you start to think about you know what your life means what do you stand for and what is your legacy you know it's like we're approaching 50 it's like what if i died today what was you know what did i what did i leave in my wake well even that like the bottom line is whatever you leave it's not going to matter because it's going to matter to some people that you know and they're going to leave too everyone's going to leave but are you enjoying this are you enjoying the moment everyone's working towards this like ultimate like the retirement years the golden years like you're fucking almost dead when those years come like those you see those people like holding hands and walking long they barely can walk their knees hurt they're all fucked up like that's not what you work for you don't work towards this ultimate point where you don't do anything anymore and that's ridiculous that what you should work towards is doing what you enjoy doing right now, enjoying your life right now, enjoying your friends right now, enjoying whatever hobbies you like to pursue, whatever, you know, love affairs and friendships and all that stuff is what life is.

[302] Life is the moment, being in the moment.

[303] And we somehow have turned it into this, this weird, like, journey to a very specific point, specific points of high school graduation, college graduation, good job, marriage, We have all these like milestones that are supposed to impart happiness in this race.

[304] And they're not real.

[305] They're social constructs.

[306] And we've created these social constructs and we've fed into them and pass them down from generation to generation without anybody stepping back and going, well, who set this up?

[307] Who set up graduate school?

[308] Who set up common core?

[309] Who are these people?

[310] Like, why is it this way?

[311] We're just biological organisms trying to have as much happiness and good feeling while we're here as we can.

[312] I feel like that's changing, though.

[313] I think that if you talk to somebody who's in their 20s, the idea that you would work a corporate job and stay in that job for your career and collect your pension and then ride out your 60s and 70s playing golf, is a foreign concept to a young person, whereas that was the kind of paradigm, right, for our parents' generation.

[314] Yeah.

[315] And when you look at the advent of the Internet and what that provides and allows, you see this explosion in kind of lifestyle careers where you're not wed to a geographic location.

[316] We live in a kind of subcontractor economy where people, you know, are more project -based than, you know, working for the big corporation or the plant.

[317] And certainly all that stuff exists on some level.

[318] but not to the extent that it used to.

[319] And I think that's super interesting.

[320] And I think that allows people to engage in critical thinking in a new and different way.

[321] And I think you see young people who are asking themselves those very questions, like, what do I want to do?

[322] What makes me happy?

[323] With that can come entitlement.

[324] And that's why I think, you know, the millennials get a bad rap for that.

[325] But at the same time, I think that they are much more engaged in trying to grapple with who they are and what it is.

[326] that, you know, they're passionate about expressing and then finding a way to tap into the economy somehow so that they can contribute and make a living doing that.

[327] And I think that that's really cool to watch unfold.

[328] I agree.

[329] And I think the idea that millennials are entitled, I think kind of every young kid has a distorted perception of the world that we live in, and in every generation.

[330] Well, and they're probably less so today.

[331] They're going to be in some, probably not on a podcast, but in some form of media, you know, 20 years from now talking about how, you know, you and I are out to lunch, you know, right?

[332] I mean, that's the natural order of things.

[333] But how our priorities and how we raise them, you know, is myopic in some way.

[334] Sure.

[335] I'm sure.

[336] Yeah, they'll figure it out.

[337] They'll get it better than we're doing it.

[338] Well, with the acceleration of technology, I mean, who knows where things are going to be.

[339] We just can't foresee what that world would look like.

[340] Yeah, human beings might be obsolete in 20 years.

[341] Did you listen to the last hour of the Sam Harris podcast?

[342] We were talking about artificial intelligence?

[343] No, I got into the first.

[344] I think I didn't make it through the end of it.

[345] The last hour keeps me up at night.

[346] Did you see, there's a movie called Ex Machina?

[347] Yeah, I'm going to see it tonight.

[348] I'm so interesting.

[349] It's haunting.

[350] It's very well done.

[351] It's a very small, you know, very contained independent movie, but it's so well executed.

[352] And you just leave, like, with a lot to think about.

[353] There's a lot to think about, period.

[354] You know, I had a long sit down with regular.

[355] Kurzweil and I interviewed him for the sci -fi show that I did and we went back and forth over the possibilities of this new era that we're entering into we were we went to excuse me this global 2045 initiative yeah that they were having in New York City where all the futurists got together and they were all comparing notes and talking about the different possibilities for not just artificial intelligence but symbiotic relationships with computers downloading consciousness into databases and all this kind of crazy shit and you walk away thinking like i don't i don't know if anybody knows where this is going and it's not going to stop there's there's going to be continual innovation until we reach some some event horizon of science some some point of no return you know some what they call ultimate novelty point that's what terence mccanee's to call it you know this ultimate novelty point and it's probably going to happen within our lifetime it's probably going to happen within the next 20 or 30 years you think it's going to happen that soon i mean i'm just guessing it's all it's total guessing well there's always the issue of natural disasters any real natural disaster would throw a massive hiccup into any plans that anyone has i mean if all we'd need is yellowstone to blow and it would set back civilization two three generations easily if not forever well how about just California running out of water?

[356] You know, I think if we can get oil from Saudi Arabia, how the fuck can we not get water from Antarctica?

[357] Everybody's whining about those ice caps melting.

[358] Just stick a fucking big pipe on those bitches and run them down to the almond fields.

[359] Well, you know what's weird is how you would think, like, if you didn't know better, you would think, how hard can it be to desalinate the ocean?

[360] Like, that's got to be elementary school chemistry, right?

[361] Right.

[362] But it's interesting that it's so difficult that, like, the best minds are having such a hard time figuring that out.

[363] And it's almost like the universe has rigged it that way because human beings are such idiots that if they made it easy, our oceans would be dry deserts right now.

[364] Because we can't help ourselves.

[365] We cannot help ourselves.

[366] And that is the same, you know, compulsion that is propelling technology forward and will ultimately catapult us into this.

[367] AI universe that's going to destroy us.

[368] I think whatever it is, and render us obsolete.

[369] Why we find that funny, it's weird, right?

[370] I know.

[371] But it is true.

[372] If we could fucking dry out the ocean, we would have done it a long time ago.

[373] Those houses in Malibu would be worth dog shit.

[374] His dummies have bought $20 million houses, and that's not really a $20 million house.

[375] It's just $20 million because it's right there on the water.

[376] Yeah, that house would be worth fuck all.

[377] because there would be like a few hundred yards of dirt in front of your house now.

[378] I mean, how hard can it be to separate salt from water?

[379] Apparently, it's hard.

[380] Yeah.

[381] But, you know, they just opened up a large desalination plant in San Diego.

[382] I heard about that.

[383] Spent over a billion dollars in this fucker, and they give it a run.

[384] Right.

[385] I just think it's a matter of time.

[386] I mean, it's absolutely possible to take salt out of water.

[387] So I don't think that there's been as much incentive in the past as there is now.

[388] And now that California has gone on this three.

[389] year drought where we need 11 trillion gallons of water just to bring us back to normal.

[390] Wow.

[391] Well, it's kind of emblematic of how we deal with problems because instead of trying to solve the problem that got us to this place, we're just looking for another source of water, right?

[392] It's sort of like taking, you know, it's like taking Viagra to deal with the fact that you can't get a boner instead of looking at why it is you can't get a boner.

[393] Right, but I mean, like you're dealing with the symptom.

[394] But there are deserts that didn't used to be deserts.

[395] I mean, there's...

[396] But not because of humankind.

[397] Right.

[398] That's because of natural forces.

[399] Right.

[400] So there is certainly one aspect of this that you can kind of point towards human beings, but the reality of the earth, the absolute reality of the earth is, climates change, oceans, the levels change, they always have.

[401] And even if people didn't exist, you would have to deal with that.

[402] So it's starting to sound like a climate change.

[403] No, no, no, but I'm definitely not.

[404] All I'm saying is we have this idea that once we're in a spot, we should be able to stay in this spot.

[405] Like, this is a spot.

[406] But there are spots in North America, first of all, like half of North America was covered in a mile of ice just 10 ,000 years ago.

[407] That's a fact.

[408] And we have to deal with the fact that if we want to, like, set up a house and have, we want to have five acres right here.

[409] Well, guess what?

[410] In 20 years, for whatever reason, that might not be a good spot anymore.

[411] And we have this idea that once we own property, that that spot should be livable and ideal forever.

[412] And even if people didn't have anything to do with the climate, the climate will shift.

[413] Things change.

[414] They always will change.

[415] We just have this really rigid idea of like where we should be able to put cities.

[416] I mean, when they keep finding these cities from like several thousand years ago, Like, did you ever see those concentric circles that they found in the water that they believe represents, like, something very similar to what Atlantis was described as outside of Spain?

[417] Oh, wow.

[418] Outside of Spain, they've found many, many underground cities where at some point in time, the sea level changed.

[419] And it was long before carbon emissions, long before people were burning fossil fuels and using machines.

[420] It's just things shift.

[421] It's not to exonerate large corporations, coal, our dependence on fossil fuel.

[422] It's a totally separate argument.

[423] I absolutely think all you have to do is look at L .A. from a fucking airplane.

[424] Or worse, I got photos of Mexico City.

[425] Holy shit, dude.

[426] I was in Mexico City a couple months ago.

[427] We go to Mexico City in June again for the UFC.

[428] By the way, nicest people.

[429] Very, very friendly.

[430] Like, you have this idea of Mexico City has been like horrible, crime -ridden, awful place.

[431] It's not.

[432] They're really nice people, but my God, their fucking pollution is insane.

[433] You can taste it with your face.

[434] Like when you get out of the airplane, you're like, whoa, this is crazy.

[435] And apparently it's better than it used to be.

[436] Whether it's Mexico City or L .A., you get this really kind of potent sense.

[437] You see the lights and the grid, and you realize, and the car is driving on the freeway, and you realize it's just an organism.

[438] Yeah.

[439] You know, these freeways carrying cars are the arteries and the cars are the blood cells.

[440] And we're feeding these cities like their, you know, organs in this larger, you know, unit that is interdependent.

[441] And it's interesting.

[442] And I think it, you know, what you said about this idea of human beings and this idea that we think everything is static.

[443] I mean, I think that applies across the board.

[444] Like, we think these cities will always be there.

[445] but we also think that our lives are somewhat static or that our relationships are static or our bank accounts, all of these things.

[446] You know, we kind of agree to in this social contract, but everything is fluid, man. It's true.

[447] Everything is fluid and changing, you know, all the time on the micro level that leads to the macro.

[448] And it's always going to be that way.

[449] And you also have to realize, I think we have to realize that one of the, I can't find these pictures of fucking Mexico City.

[450] I think he posted that.

[451] Yeah, I remember when you.

[452] It's on my Instagram.

[453] Yeah, yeah.

[454] But the point is that the only way a city got to be a city in the first place is things had to change radically.

[455] If you looked at where that city is, you looked at Los Angeles, where it is, 400 years ago, there was absolutely nothing.

[456] You know, there's probably some Native Americans and some Mexicans and some various people.

[457] It was back when it was Mexico, and they were wandering around and doing their thing.

[458] But there was no highways and sky rises and all that stuff was really, really recent.

[459] And in terms of the actual age of the earth, my God, it's like blink your eye and then all of a sudden cities are there.

[460] Literally a blink of an eye and then everything's polluted.

[461] Everything's fucked and Malibu Beachfront property is ridiculously overpriced.

[462] But in the history of this planet, has there ever been more change planetarily with the exception of natural disasters than there has been in the last 200 years?

[463] Well, in that sense, aren't human beings a kind of a natural disaster?

[464] We're a virus on the planet.

[465] I mean, come on.

[466] That's what Hicks called us.

[467] He called us a virus with shoes.

[468] That's interesting.

[469] While the opening of my showtime special from my 2005, I argued that if you looked at the earth as a living organism and you're flying over and you saw L .A., you'd go, well, that's cancer.

[470] That's a growth.

[471] It's growing.

[472] It's out of control.

[473] It stinks.

[474] It looks like it's a mess, and it's getting bigger.

[475] We're greedy bastards.

[476] We're lacking that gene.

[477] that prioritizes doing things sustainably.

[478] I think it's a huge problem.

[479] Like, we're predatory.

[480] We're not symbiotic.

[481] Well, I think we have an inescapable thirst for innovation.

[482] We want new and better things, and we want progress.

[483] But we're short -sighted in that regard.

[484] We are.

[485] We're unable to see the bigger picture.

[486] We don't have the foresight to make the responsible decision quite often.

[487] Quite often.

[488] Well, we err towards the side of profit and success, and oftentimes at the expense.

[489] What is that, you think, though?

[490] I mean, other animals, other animals don't have that.

[491] They do, though.

[492] They do, though.

[493] They do.

[494] The beavers fuck up dams, and they create dams and ruin rivers.

[495] But they don't make beaver cities.

[496] Because they can.

[497] If they could, they would.

[498] They could get together and, you know.

[499] If they could chew more wood.

[500] Huge giant dam in the Mississippi River If they could agree with each other And they would probably do it They don't give a fuck about you You know, I mean, bears just shit Wherever they walk They don't they don't clean up They don't have like a certain spot Where they put all their shit They just don't have enough of an impact To really change the environment around them But if they could, they would I was listening to a radio lab podcast About the Galapagos Islands And it's very fascinating Because they had to eradicate goats Because these sailors had brought goats over You know, way back in the day, and they had brought goats and they'd put them on the island so that they could come back and eat them.

[501] Like, they would have a food source.

[502] But these goats just destroy everything in their path.

[503] They just killed everything, and they fucked it all up for the tortoises.

[504] These poor tortoises were fucked.

[505] They didn't have any plant matter anymore because all these goats were coming along.

[506] So then they hired these people to kill the goats.

[507] So they flew over in helicopters, and they gunned down the goats, and then goats started getting smart so what they do was they would find goats they would capture them they would put radio collars on them they would scare them they would run over to where the other goats were and then they would find where the goats were they would kill all of them except the ones with the radio collars and so they became what they called judas goats it's really fascinating how they set this up and then it got to a point where it was nothing but judas goats that's all that was left and so then you know they tried to reintroduce tortoises really really fascinating but The argument could be made that any animal acting purely in its own interests will ultimately fuck up everything around it.

[508] And that's one of the reasons why there's got to be some kind of a balance.

[509] There's got to be some kind of a balance between humans and the plants that we coexist with and the animals that we coexist with.

[510] And the same can be said with animals.

[511] Like, you know, you can't have too many predators in an area.

[512] You can't have too many, you know, too many deer in an area.

[513] You run into them with cars.

[514] They start starving to death.

[515] You get ticks and people start spreading, they start spreading Lyme disease.

[516] And there's like humans and animals, and they all act in their own interest.

[517] It's just we're the only ones that have fingers.

[518] Well, we can manipulate shit and change the environment in ways that no other animal could even come close to.

[519] There is an infinitely complex, you know, play that's going on.

[520] And we insert ourselves into that, and we have this reductionist idea.

[521] Oh, if we insert this one thing, then that will fix the problem.

[522] and what we don't do is really understand that the extent to which the interdependency of everything else comes into play.

[523] And I think that's true whether you're introducing an animal to an ecology to solve a problem and it creates a bigger problem, or whether you're taking a drug to resolve one condition that has side effects, or whether you're overly focused on one micronutrient or macronutrient as the solution to your health problem, And, you know, everything is more complicated than that.

[524] And, you know, I don't think that we kind of embrace a more holistic approach to, you know, whether it's our problems or our health or what have you.

[525] That's another thing.

[526] It's like not part of our wiring.

[527] And it's not part of the, you know, the scientific method is by definition reductionist because you have to isolate variables and look at one thing at a time.

[528] It's true.

[529] Yeah, that's very true.

[530] That's very true.

[531] Science in and of itself is reductionist.

[532] And I think that there's also this weird hope that people have that if like we fuck something up, then our backs get against the wall, then someone really smart will invent a solution and it'll all be better.

[533] You know, that someone like right now is analyzing the who knows how many fucking trillions of pounds of plastic we've dumped in the ocean.

[534] And they're trying to figure out some way to suck all that stuff out and turn it into some sort of a fuel or some resource that we can capitalize on.

[535] that's those those kind of thinking or that kind of thinking is real common we always think that eventually someone smarter will figure out a way out of this mess yeah Elon Musk is going to solve it for all of us right and I think that he might I think that part of that is just the level of disenfranchisement that the average person has like we just don't feel like our vote counts we don't feel like our dollar counts and like fuck it you know dancing with the stars is on and like I can't make a difference so you know I'm going to throw my garbage out the window and who cares i just found out the dancing with the stars have been on for 10 years has it i've never watched a single episode i really have never i've been flipping to the channels and i saw some people dancing and everybody cheering and i was like what in the actual fuck and i change a channel again like you're watching people dance now really like nobody likes to dance like that that was like isn't that real rare isn't that what like mexican tv was dancing with the stars was it like you know you turn on like when we were kids it was like it was all song and dance, you know, on the Spanish television shows, Spanish networks.

[536] I thought it was all those crazy soap operas.

[537] Yeah, that too.

[538] But that's what reality TV is sort of, right?

[539] We've regressed.

[540] In some ways.

[541] Well, there's a part of us that really, we really love bass things.

[542] You know, we love emotions.

[543] Like, I was just thinking to this the other day, the talk show host, like a Morton Downey Jr. or a Jenny Jones or.

[544] or Geraldo Rivera, any of those shows or like Montel Williams where they would have guests and then they would go to the audience and the audience would like say something that would get everybody to go, oh, like that thing that they created, that parent, those are like the original YouTube commenters.

[545] There's like the original like social media commenters.

[546] The people that are in the audience that don't have anything to do with what's on it, but they get to interject and say something.

[547] And then that becomes a part of the entertainment.

[548] Right.

[549] But it's really just, you know, it's this weird social interaction between human beings and us, like, sitting as sidelines.

[550] What are you showing?

[551] Oh, yeah.

[552] Of course.

[553] Jerry Springer.

[554] He's the master of that.

[555] What a crazy way to make a living, right?

[556] I know.

[557] Well, that guy was a character.

[558] Yeah.

[559] Is he still alive, right?

[560] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[561] He's actually a very intelligent guy.

[562] Wasn't he mayor of Cleveland or something like that?

[563] Mm -hmm.

[564] Yeah.

[565] Yeah, and he got in trouble, some prostitution, Cincinnati?

[566] I think there was a little cocaine problem at one point.

[567] A little bit of that, a little bit of blow.

[568] But, you know, we enjoy those stupid moments that don't mean anything, you know, where someone says something and everybody goes, oh, there's nothing wrong.

[569] There's nothing wrong with a guilty pleasure, though.

[570] You know what I mean?

[571] No, not necessarily.

[572] Look, you can't fix the world.

[573] You can't be Captain Save a Ho and go out there and fix the whole world and go to the Jerry springle crowd and start hanging out kale leaves and you know pamphlets for yoga classes it's not going to work are you talking about me jo talking about everybody like i eat kale too dude i know that's a it's a thing man if you um if you've ever mocked like very uh just just just ridiculous prostitizing vegans which i have people think all of a sudden i don't like vegans they think i don't like them or i don't eat that food i eat that food almost always I eat more vegetables than I eat meat I eat way more vegetables I eat a lot of it I think it's good for you Well vegans are an easy target You guys are easy as fuck You know what I mean?

[574] So But you're not You're like You're like the if all vegans were like you There would be no target It's like people who just eat healthy That's it You're just someone who enjoys eating plants Instead of animal products And that's just your diet It doesn't become a fucking religion with you No I mean look you know, first of all, it's not, it's not my place to, to pass judgment on anybody else in their behavior patterns and their habits.

[575] And, you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to, you know, recruit people to my lifestyle, you know, if people want to ask me about it, I'm happy to talk about it.

[576] But I'm not, like, yelling from a bully pulpit, you know, shaming people or, or like, I have no, I have no, you know, air of moral superiority about it whatsoever.

[577] It's a lifestyle that I choose, but I don't think that that gives me, you know, permission to levy judgment on any other human being and their choices.

[578] So, you know, the way that I try to communicate the message is just to, you know, live my life and, you know, sort of stand where I'm standing.

[579] And if people are interested, they'll come to me and, you know, I can communicate to them.

[580] But it's, you know, it's not a proselytizing point of view that I adopt.

[581] I think some people adopt certain behaviors just because it gives them license to be an asshole.

[582] I really do.

[583] I mean, there are certain vegans that think that because they are vegans, they can go out and attack and be really shitty to other people.

[584] And somehow, I know they're acting in a positive way and they're going to enact some positive change by being really shitty to people it's like this idea of a social justice warrior falls into the same category by being really mean to people that you think think the wrong way or behave the wrong way that somehow another you're going to shame them in a changing by being really aggressive and and offensive to them I mean shaming somebody is not an effective way of trying to getting them to change it's one of the least effective ways I mean look people change when they're ready to change.

[585] You know, it's really an internal willingness that drives change.

[586] And, you know, somebody's either ready to make a change or they're not and different people receive messages in different ways.

[587] So if you look at, look at the vegan movement, because that's what we're talking about, you know, there are super hardcore animal rights activists and they have a certain way of communicating.

[588] And there's a certain population of people that are receptive to that kind of communication.

[589] There are other people that are interested in environmental issues.

[590] They want to be better environmentalists.

[591] And so there are people that speak to the vegan movement from that perspective.

[592] And there's a certain audience that's receptive to that.

[593] And the way that I communicate it or carry the message is in a different way.

[594] And there's, you know, different people that are attracted to that.

[595] So I think whatever your point of view is or whatever movement you're part of, and that we can get into the whole idea of how we're wired to be on teams and how counterproductive that is.

[596] But, you know, there's enough people out there that are, you know, there's a diversity of voices and a diversity of audiences that, you know, every, every kind of voice carries a frequency that other people respond to, I guess.

[597] I didn't say that very articulately.

[598] I know what you're saying, though.

[599] You know, there are definitely going to be, there's no one that responds well to being insulted, though.

[600] No one.

[601] I mean, if you're really trying to convey a message, being really shitty about it is the last thing.

[602] Well, look at political talk shows on Saturday and Sunday morning, and they're just shouting at each other.

[603] And basically, they're just rallying support from their base, each side.

[604] They're trying to win, right?

[605] But they're not converting people from one side to the other.

[606] No one ever gets converted.

[607] The only way anybody ever gets converted is, like, if you can say something very thoughtful that penetrates past this wall of ideology they have in their head.

[608] And they go, hmm, and then they have to consider it.

[609] But they're not going to consider it if you're insulting.

[610] They're just not.

[611] It's going to be a contest.

[612] It's going to be a you versus them.

[613] You say something rude to them.

[614] They're going to try to say something ruder to you.

[615] And you're playing ping pong.

[616] Ping pong.

[617] Right.

[618] You're just ping pong with insults.

[619] And to be clear, like, you know, I'm a member of this community.

[620] And, you know, a proud member, I would say.

[621] Are you a card carrying member?

[622] I think I have the card in my wallet.

[623] Is it a leaf?

[624] It is a leaf.

[625] It's in that juicy ladies' glass over there.

[626] We don't have cards.

[627] We just carry a sphere.

[628] I think, you know, my theory on it, the people that are kind of you would characterize as, you know, vociferous and angry and judgmental.

[629] My theory is that there's a certain percentage of the population that come out of the womb.

[630] Broken?

[631] Well, there's that.

[632] Okay.

[633] So there's that, of course.

[634] You know, there are those people for sure.

[635] And there are other people that I think are wired to be super sensitive.

[636] Sure.

[637] And from a very early age, they just find the idea of, you know, an animal dying for food to be the most intolerable concept they can imagine, right?

[638] And they're just, that's how they came into the world, right?

[639] And so, and so they kind of, you know, grow older and they navigate the world and they start, you know, becoming sort of more outspoken about this idea.

[640] and when people are not receptive to it or they're not seeing the world the way that they're seeing it, they become progressively more frustrated.

[641] And that frustration turns to resentment.

[642] That resentment can morph into anger.

[643] And then, you know, you have what you see, which is people who are, they're just incensed that other people are not seeing the world the way that they're seeing it.

[644] And I think that applies, you know, to any contingent of the population that holds a very strong point of view.

[645] I agree with you.

[646] I think that there's definitely going to be certain people that are hardwired for sensitivity.

[647] There's just no getting around it.

[648] And you realize that when you have children.

[649] You know, I have two young daughters that are so different.

[650] They're only two years apart from each other.

[651] Grew up in the same household.

[652] They could not be more different.

[653] Right.

[654] And it's just right out of the box.

[655] They're just different people.

[656] Yeah.

[657] And you realize, like, you had nothing to do with that.

[658] Yeah.

[659] I mean, you have a little bit to do with how they, you know, how they process things and how they deal with.

[660] with things based on learned but that innate core kind of perspective and whatever they're naturally inclined to is just you can see it at such a young age yeah that's the difference right the difference is like what what what is just a real part of them what is a real part of them like what what what is just inescapable like they have certain ingredients like a car is made out of aluminum and rubber and metal.

[661] There's certain ingredients that certain people have when they're born.

[662] And also inclinations, inclinations towards certain activities, like we were talking about before, like trying to find things that make your children happy, trying to encourage things that make your children happy to find a thing that they, like, that jives with their ingredients, you know?

[663] And some people, they look at animals and they just have this inescapable inescapable kinship And some of that kinship is ridiculous to the point We ever read those Tumblr blogs Where people think that they should have been born a fox No, I haven't seen that Fox kin You never seen that?

[664] That sounds like something Red Band would spend a lot of time doing What, thinking you used to be a fox?

[665] No, just being on, no, being on like weird Tumblr sites Weird Tumblr sites can get very addictive You wonder whether or not you're being trolled You know, some of them are so weird You wonder like, okay, is this, is this real?

[666] You know?

[667] Yeah, I don't know.

[668] Fox kin, you never heard of that?

[669] No, I haven't.

[670] to look around people that would they they they believe that they should have been born as foxes yes okay they believe they're a fox can well you're you're an open -minded thinker you know there's other dimensions at play you saw interstellar there is a i didn't see intercellar oh you didn't no i haven't seen it yet i'm fucking busy bro uh but the um the idea is just that's a ridiculous idea but i also think that there's also people that have this very idealistic idea of animals in nature itself which is There's some videos we've been shown recently with deer that are eating birds, eating birds alive, which apparently is a recent discovery, that deer are not really just herbivores.

[671] They're herbivores by convenience, but when they find birds on the ground, they eat them.

[672] They seek them out.

[673] They actually chase them.

[674] Is that a result of encroaching habitat by urban centers?

[675] No, no. These are wild deer in very rural areas.

[676] They've been observed, too.

[677] Apparently, they get minerals and stuff from deer, from birds, rather.

[678] And they're more inclined to do so when they're growing their antlers.

[679] They feel, you know, more drawn to eating birds.

[680] That's interesting.

[681] I didn't know that.

[682] Yeah, there's a bunch of videos.

[683] It's kind of disturbing.

[684] Because, you know, even though I'm a hunter and I eat deer, I think they're beautiful.

[685] And I always think of them as being these peaceful things.

[686] and we see them chasing a bird and just chewing it alive and this fucking thing is kicking inside their mouth and trying to get away.

[687] Well, they're just, they're part of the, you know, natural cycle of life.

[688] They're just trying to survive like everything else.

[689] Yes.

[690] And I think, you know, I think to the casual observer, you know, or somebody who's listening to this podcast, they may think that there's this, you know, giant gap between the way that you live and the way that I live.

[691] And I think there's actually a bigger gap between the way that I live and the normal human being than yourself because of, you know, look, you're a hunter.

[692] I don't hunt.

[693] You know, it's not something that I'm interested in doing.

[694] But you have a connection to where your food is coming from that is very close and primal.

[695] And in the grand scheme of things, more sustainable than the way that, you know, the average typical American.

[696] It's kind of more sustainable, but honestly, not for everybody.

[697] reality of a while.

[698] Not everybody could do it.

[699] You know, not everybody could do it.

[700] I mean, I think that right now our food system is broken.

[701] You know, our system of factory farming.

[702] It's unsustainable.

[703] I actually brought you this documentary.

[704] What?

[705] Who said?

[706] It's called Calspiracy.

[707] Oh, cowspiracy.

[708] Yeah.

[709] I was involved in producing this movie.

[710] You should check it out.

[711] But basically, it's a look at the impact of animal agriculture on our environment.

[712] It's horrible.

[713] It's pretty interesting.

[714] Did you see that video that they got off a drone video of these gigantic pig farms and just the fucking unbelievable environmental catastrophe these things create where they have lakes of piss and shit from these pigs?

[715] It's a warrant.

[716] Have you seen it?

[717] No, I haven't.

[718] You really should see it.

[719] See if you could pull that video up, Jamie, because it's insane.

[720] to look at.

[721] When you stop and think about the the amount of Smithfield Foods factory farms, that's it right there.

[722] This guy flies this drone, which is pretty fucking cool if they have these drones now that you could do this and get this high resolution video.

[723] That's interesting.

[724] If you're dealing with a place like Los Angeles, 20 million people, 20 million people and 95 % of the meat meat, you're dealing with an insane amount of flesh that needs to be consumed on a daily basis and it has to be grown somewhere and ship somewhere and conveniently we want to sort of ignore it.

[725] That is a lake of shit and piss and it's all coming from these factories right there in front of you.

[726] Those are housing units for pigs.

[727] They're stuffed into these things crammed next to each other and they stand on these metal grates.

[728] So the metal grates are porous.

[729] They piss and shit.

[730] It goes through the holes and it all goes through these two tubes that lead down into that giant lake.

[731] Apparently, the smell, if you're anywhere near there, is so bad.

[732] You literally feel like you could probably light the air on fire.

[733] I'm sure Smithfield is not too excited about this video being out there.

[734] And, you know, there's all these aggag laws right now that prevent consumers from filming this kind of thing.

[735] Isn't that insane?

[736] That's interesting that he's been able to do this with a drone.

[737] And, you know, whether you're, you know, whether you eat bacon for breakfast every morning or you eat more like me, I think we can agree that transparency is important.

[738] And these companies are not transparent about how they produce their food.

[739] And there's a lot of problems with it.

[740] And the waste that it creates and the amount of resources and, you know, what goes into this process is something that I think we could all benefit from taking a harder look at.

[741] You know, it would be interesting is if you go to the Cowspiracy website, they have all these facts about kind of, you know, every sort of environmental impact of what animal agriculture does from water use to CO2 emissions to land use to species extinction to rainforest destruction and when you look at the statistics it's it's crazy it's absolutely crazy it's like the elephant in the room you know we talk about when we talk about global climate change or greenhouse gas emissions we talk about we talk about fossil fuel use we talk about fracking and rightly so these are important things to talk about but really the thing that we're not talking enough about is the impact of our food system on all of these systems.

[742] And when you look at, for example, water use, we're talking about water, right?

[743] Well, you know, there's PSAs in California.

[744] We're not supposed to take long showers.

[745] We can't water our lawns, all these sorts of things.

[746] And the truth is that consumer water use in California is like 5%.

[747] And animal agriculture accounts for like 55 % of all water use.

[748] And you know what a big one is?

[749] You know what the really big useless one is?

[750] Well, golf courses.

[751] Well, animal agriculture Trump's golf courses.

[752] Right, but at least animal agriculture is like feeding animals that people eat.

[753] You're just feeding fucking white dudes rolling balls around the grass.

[754] It's insane amount of water.

[755] For your amusement, right?

[756] Yeah.

[757] I think it takes something like 660 gallons of water to produce a hamburger.

[758] And like a thousand gallons of milk or a thousand gallons of water to produce one gallon of milk, something like that.

[759] Like the statistics are completely insane.

[760] And that, because a lot of it is the water that's used to grow the grain that you're feeding to these animals.

[761] So when you look at it systemically, you know, it's just, it doesn't, like, if you were an alien who beamed down to planet Earth and said, take me to your leader and show me how you make your food, he would just be like, you guys are crazy.

[762] You're like killing the planet to do this.

[763] It doesn't, it doesn't make sense.

[764] It's not sustainable in the long term.

[765] If we did it exactly the way we're doing it right now forever, would that be sustainable?

[766] I don't think so.

[767] Because we can do it right now.

[768] Well, I mean, the way that we're doing it right now, I mean, we're destroying, like, rainforests, like, crazy, right?

[769] It's like one to two acres, like, every hour or something like that.

[770] But isn't that a lot of it is due to they're getting exotic hardwoods and all these different, it's all lumbering and...

[771] There's some of that, for sure, and there's palm oil and there's other things like that.

[772] But I think the gravamen, like the majority of it, goes to grazing land and growing crops for livestock.

[773] And this is other countries.

[774] This is not America.

[775] I mean, America is not one of the rainforests.

[776] Yeah, we're not cutting down the rainforests in America.

[777] And we're not getting our beef from there either.

[778] But I think, you know, like an insane amount of our total land mass is devoted to is devoted to animal.

[779] Agriculture.

[780] So, you know, it's like billions of these animals that were specifically raising to eat.

[781] you know it's a it's a huge it's a huge problem it is a huge problem that is something that is outside of your normal thinking you're getting on the highway god damn it there's traffic today you're getting to work oh great we got this new project we have to deal with and your your real existence like all that stuff is bullshit if you don't have any food all that traffic all that the work stuff like hey you're gonna die you don't have any food like this is like Like, here's a bunch of things that you need to have in place before you think about any other hobbies or projects or whatever you're trying to accomplish with your career.

[782] You've got to have a place where you can breathe the air.

[783] Okay?

[784] The air has to be clean.

[785] That's one.

[786] Well, the ocean has to be hospitable for, you know, for fish and plant life, right?

[787] Yes.

[788] Well, if you're a vegan, you really don't need to worry about anything other than the plant life in the ocean.

[789] If you're only eating kelp.

[790] But actually, kelp is like a very good source of protein, right?

[791] That goes back to this reductionist idea, right?

[792] These are complex ecosystems.

[793] So you knock one thing out in the ocean and the domino effect of that.

[794] You know, like these, the runoff that's caused from, you know, waste, animal agriculture is a big one.

[795] There's all kinds of waste.

[796] But just sewage.

[797] And it creates these massive dead zones, the algal blooms, right?

[798] That deprives them, like thousands of acres worth across the ocean that are so oxygen deprived that nothing can live in them.

[799] was a big die -off when I was in Hermosa Beach a couple of years ago.

[800] They had a giant fish die -off where it was, oh, so fucking stinky.

[801] It was so nasty.

[802] When they'd wash up on the shore?

[803] Well, I think they just died, like, in certain bays.

[804] You know, there was an area where they just hit a dead zone and a bunch of fish died.

[805] And super normal, very common.

[806] Happens all the time.

[807] And it smelled so bad.

[808] It was just, you know, probably a fucking million dead fish or something.

[809] Wow.

[810] Yeah.

[811] Awful.

[812] Yeah, yeah.

[813] But we're so, what we're getting at.

[814] But, but I mean, yeah, I mean, as, you know, as typical consumers, we're, we're divorced from that.

[815] That's not in our face.

[816] You know what I mean?

[817] Like, we're not really, we don't have to, like, reckon with that on a daily basis.

[818] Is it possible that, like, could you have an entire city of 20 million people?

[819] You couldn't have an entire city of 20 million people that lived as hunters.

[820] You really couldn't.

[821] No. You would need more animals.

[822] But could you have an entire city of 20 million people that were vegan?

[823] Oh, yeah.

[824] I mean, I think that the amount of land that you need to grow food for vegans is like, you know, I don't know, a fraction, a tiny fraction of the amount of land that is required to raise animals for food.

[825] Because the animals have to eat a lot of food in order to get to a size that you cook them and eat them.

[826] I mean, you need tons of grazing land and, you know, like if you go to, go to cospiracy .com and there's a section called facts and they kind of break it all down.

[827] It's kind of interesting to look at.

[828] But, yeah, I mean, I think that the amount of land, like, we're producing enough food to feed the planet, really.

[829] It's really like an allocation and distribution issue as much as anything.

[830] Do you mean we, like America?

[831] But most of the food that we're growing in the breadbasket of America is going to livestock.

[832] Right.

[833] It's not going to human beings.

[834] You mean like the corn fields?

[835] Yeah.

[836] They're also making that corn that's really not even edible for humans.

[837] Did you see, you saw King Corn?

[838] Yeah, I did.

[839] It's amazing.

[840] Amazing documentary.

[841] We're all, like, made out of corn.

[842] It was fucking crazy, right?

[843] When they do the tests on their body and they find out the carbon.

[844] More corn than human.

[845] The carbon in their body is coming from corn.

[846] And you find out how much, how many different things at the supermarket.

[847] When they went through the supermarket, they looked at all the different things that have corn syrup in it, corn starch, corn this, corn that.

[848] It's like, wow.

[849] Right.

[850] How did that happen?

[851] How did they hijack the entire food system?

[852] I mean, you don't need fucking corn.

[853] You know?

[854] like all that stuff that they're using corn for is not really necessary but you can profit off of it if you own the corn and if you have some sort of a relationship with the government you can get subsidies and that's what happens they're they're being fed off subsidies that's one of the things it was most disturbing about like wait a minute this is so destructive and this is and you guys couldn't even afford to grow this shit if it wasn't for the government if the government did it If they didn't pay corn farmers, they didn't have government subsidies, a lot of them would just go under.

[855] Yeah.

[856] I mean, I think that we're entrenched in this system that is dependent upon these subsidies, right?

[857] And so much of our economy, you know, functions in this way.

[858] And I think if we really want to change our food system, we have to eradicate these subsidies.

[859] And when you look at, you know, look, there's a reason why, I think we talked about this last time, I can't remember.

[860] There's a reason why, like, you know, a Taco Bell Taco is, like, whatever it is, like, $0 .89 or whatever.

[861] And it's like, it's the same price it was when we were 12.

[862] You know, it's like, how does that work?

[863] Right.

[864] You know, a McDonald's cheeseburger is like two bucks or whatever it is.

[865] But if you factor in, like if you look at it from a meta perspective, and you take into account all the subsidies, you know, a Big Mac would actually cost something like $750 or, you know, it would be like a multiple on its price.

[866] There's a book called Metanomics by this guy called David Simon, where he, I'm sorry, Medanomics.

[867] And he really breaks down how these subsidies work and how that kind of fuels this food system that really is creating, you know, it's sort of, it's making the lower socioeconomic class like less and less healthy because it's creating this wider gap between healthy living and unhealthy living.

[868] Because in food deserts and urban food deserts where there is no farmer's market, but there's McDonald's and Jack in the box on every corner.

[869] and you know you're on welfare and you got three kids like what are you going to do right you're going to eat the shitty food this is too cheap to not that's a really good point that's a really good point as far as the the amount that it costs for these things and the fact that it's because of subsidies that is a very good point of that we're in this place right now where suddenly health and wellness have become elitist ideals you know synonymous with you know spending a ton of money at whole foods and that's crazy are you opposed to to eating, like, chicken eggs, like, from someone who grows chickens and has them, like, free -ranging and, you know, like, I have chickens that they lay eggs every day, and they're, they're essentially my pets.

[870] I eat my pets food, you know, I feed them, uh, they feed, they eat a lot of, uh, they eat some table scraps, but they, they, they, they, they, they just free range.

[871] They run around, you know, eating stuff in the grass and, you know, from a, from, like, an ethical point of view, you mean?

[872] If you're raising your own chickens and they're like your pets and they're laying eggs that are not going to be, you know, turn into chickens, then I think ethically, I don't really see a problem with that.

[873] You know what I mean?

[874] Like, like, they're not going to, you know, they're not going to, they're not, those eggs are not going to turn into chickens.

[875] But PETA has this thing on their website about eggs being chicken periods and they're trying to discourage people from eating eggs.

[876] Have you ever seen it?

[877] it's hilarious it's one of those things where it just shows you like the there's there's ethical considerations when it comes to livestock and animals that are they're they're rational they make sense and then you get into this extreme animal rights ideology where they're trying to twist reality and so they have like a bloody a bloody pair of underwear and a chicken like here it is look at this eggs come from chicken menstruation so they're frying a blood pair of underwear in a frying pan don't eat eggs period and the word period is red like period blood i mean this is the reason why peter they're very effective at marketing they know see we're talking well we're talking about it right now talking about how retarded they are i eat seven more eggs today just because of these assholes that's not that's not like effective i think that if you're if you have chickens at your home and they're your pets and your kids play with them and they're laying eggs that are not going to turn into chickens and you decide that you want to eat those eggs from a morality point of view like how can I I don't really see how I could have a big problem with that now if you decide that you want to cut the head off that chicken and fry it up then then that's then it becomes it becomes it well it just becomes a different thing right becomes a different yeah it becomes a different thing what was last time you ate meat so it's been a while how many years vegan and It's been about eight.

[878] It's been eight years now.

[879] Well, coming up on nine, maybe.

[880] Wow.

[881] Do you ever smell like your neighbor cooking a steak and go?

[882] Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm not one of those people who's like, oh, it repulses me and I want to throw up.

[883] You know, like I got into it for health reasons, right?

[884] And, you know, I, listen, I've eaten more meat in my lifetime than any human being ever should.

[885] You know, it's like, I'm not, you know, I like it.

[886] You know, I drive by McDonald's or Jack in the Box, and I smell that.

[887] and that might disgust some people, but it triggers like this addictive response in me where it's like, I will crave that, you know, because there's so much time has passed between me and eating those foods, I don't have that sort of obsessive, compulsive thing that kicks in.

[888] Like, I'm also, I'm a recovering alcoholic.

[889] Like, I have, I'm like, you know, I can get addicted to things pretty fucking easy, right?

[890] So that's part of my thing.

[891] Like for me to draw a line, you know, kind of a line in the sand and say, like, no more is kind of the way, that I have to do it because otherwise it inhabits my consciousness too much but you have to put up boundaries or the unsurmountable boundary yeah like there are certain diets that say oh you can have a cheat day right so it's like if you told me that I could have in -and -out burger like once a week like I would I would spend six days thinking about the day that I could have in -and -out burger you know what I mean like in order to free myself from that prison I need time away right so you know, it's really powerful with me, whether it's a cheeseburger or a drink or a drug, you know, and that's just me, you know, that's just my experience.

[892] But when I smell that, yeah, it triggers that thing.

[893] I'm like, oh, that smells good, but it passes quickly.

[894] But if I was eating those things, I might find myself driving into the drive -thru.

[895] That's an issue with people that have eating disorders, where it's almost like the desire to have that forbidden food, overwhelms their desire to be healthy.

[896] It's like that it just becomes this thing.

[897] Like, I've got to itch it.

[898] I've got to itch it.

[899] I'm itchy.

[900] I got to scratch it.

[901] I can't help it.

[902] Yeah, it transcends logic and rational thought.

[903] It becomes psychological.

[904] It becomes a psychological issue.

[905] Way more than it is a physiological issue.

[906] It's almost beyond psychology, though.

[907] Like, it's so embedded.

[908] Right.

[909] I mean, for anybody who's truly like an addict or an alcohol, Like it goes to the core.

[910] You know, there is no overriding it.

[911] When that kicks in, it's just, it's happening.

[912] I had a friend who was on the Atkinson, my friend Eddie Bravo.

[913] He was on the Atkinson, and he would do it for six days a week.

[914] And then midnight on Saturday night, that motherfucker would go off the rails, like a runaway train, piloted by a meth addict.

[915] Oh my God.

[916] Right.

[917] So what are you intuit from that?

[918] right like he's building up a lot of ways he's building up all week yes so it worked though but why would you i'm not saying that an actin's diet is a healthy diet because i don't think it is but but what's wrong with an actin's diet if you could say so from an expert perspective i mean i'm not a nutritional scientist or a doctor you know i would you know i would say that that that um a diet that's super focused on basically excluding anything with any carbohydrates in it and eating food that are devoid of any fiber, which I think is really important.

[919] We talk about protein a lot, but I think most people, I think that conversation should really be about fiber.

[920] Like, nobody's protein deficient.

[921] I think 3 % of the population is protein deficient.

[922] Most Americans are fiber deficient, though.

[923] We just don't eat enough vegetables.

[924] But is the Atkins diet fiber deficient?

[925] I mean, you can eat broccoli?

[926] I think that there is a focus on, like, meat and dairy products, right?

[927] It's like, I mean, I'm not an expert on the Atkins diet, but it's all about sort of, yeah, it's like being in ketosis and you know that's a very you know hot button thing and you know there are people that are all about like being in ketosis and my understanding of that is that it's kind of a crisis state for the human body it's not a natural state of being it's sort of like what your body has to do when it's being deprived of other nutrients to be in this state like you put these acid ketones in your body which then are converted to some form of glucose because you're so glucose deprived right our brains run on glucose our bodies need glucose.

[928] You know, if you look at, look at, you know, the longest living pockets, pockets of civilization across the world where people live the longest and are the healthiest and are the happiest, like the blue zones.

[929] You've heard of the blue zones, right?

[930] So, Dan Boutner, who's the guy who traveled all these places, is a friend of mine, he's an amazing guy.

[931] You should have him on the podcast.

[932] He's amazing.

[933] What is his name?

[934] Dan Boutner.

[935] B -U -E -T -N -E -R.

[936] He's a National Geographic Fellow.

[937] He's so important.

[938] He's...

[939] What's he did?

[940] What's his...

[941] Well, he's the guy who wrote the Blue Zone's books.

[942] So he was like a global adventurer who set like three world records, like cycling across the planet, doing all these crazy things.

[943] And...

[944] Cycling?

[945] Well, he rode his bike across Africa, like north to south, I think.

[946] What the fuck?

[947] He rode across Russia.

[948] Like when...

[949] This was when he was younger.

[950] And then, you know, he became interested in indigenous populations.

[951] populations.

[952] He started working with National Geographic.

[953] He became a writer.

[954] And in his travels, he became obsessed with, you know, finding places where people are the happiest, live the longest, free of disease, et cetera.

[955] And that ultimately became what are today known as the blue zones, like these little sort of hidden pockets in the planet that are kind of untouched from the gestalt of our modern society.

[956] And, you know, there are little tiny places kind of off the beaten path.

[957] Icaria, which is like an island off the coast of Turkey, Sardinia, Okinawa.

[958] And ironically, Loma Linda here, like not too far from here.

[959] Loma Linda, which is pretty interesting.

[960] Yeah, and that's - How's that work?

[961] It's a cultural thing because it's a community of Seventh -day Adventists, and it's a very strong faith -based community that also basically subsists on a plant -based diet.

[962] And they live incredibly long.

[963] There you go.

[964] So the seven -day Adventists, how do you say it?

[965] Seventh -day Adventists?

[966] Yeah, yeah.

[967] That sounds a weird word.

[968] They are like...

[969] You say it, even if you're saying it correctly, it seems like you're doing it wrong.

[970] Adventists.

[971] It's a very strong, you know, faith -based community.

[972] And they sort of...

[973] Planned -based diet.

[974] Yeah, yeah.

[975] Moderate physical activity, social engagement.

[976] Social engagement is important to.

[977] Huge.

[978] It's huge.

[979] And so from studying these cultures, he extracted certain kind of guiding principles about how they live their life.

[980] And one of them, to get back to the question about kind of Atkins and diet, is, you know, they all eat a very starchy, you know, fiber -rich, essentially plant -based diet.

[981] It doesn't mean they're all vegans, like they eat a little bit of meat.

[982] But essentially, their diet is founded upon starchy vegetables for the most part.

[983] And community and accountability and kind of keeping your elders around and all these sorts of things have really, you know, distinguishes them as, you know, you know, from the way that we've live our lives now, right?

[984] Like, you know, we're just, we're isolated, we're fast pace, all these sorts of, you know, kind of principles upon which we navigate our day are just very divorced from the way that these people are living.

[985] I love that it says empowered women.

[986] Empowered women is a factor in age.

[987] That's fascinating.

[988] I wonder what that's about.

[989] A big part of it, too.

[990] I had Dan on my podcast, so if people are listening, they can they can check him out he's great but he uh a big part of it too is um is having purpose like sort of identifying early on in your life uh you know what your purpose is and and serving that purpose and these people don't retire you know they're just they're sort of you know living and continuing to be productive like way later in life than we're used to seeing enjoying your time here and that positive energy that's attached to enjoying your time here sustains your existence in a much better way.

[991] Yeah, sort of low -grade exercise.

[992] These people, you know, they're always moving.

[993] You know, they're not out running.

[994] They're not on the treadmill, but they're in their garden, and they're walking to their friend's house.

[995] And, you know, they're very engaged with their community, you know, in a very intimate way, yeah.

[996] Do you know I had Aubrey de Grey on the other day, who's a life extension scientist at the forefront of the various technologies that are being developed to extend life.

[997] He said the difference between the average and these cultures where they live far longer is four years.

[998] That's the, you know, this big goal that everybody's trying to attain, like live like these people that live the longest, and that's four years.

[999] There's a four year different.

[1000] Right.

[1001] Well, I think, you know, in these blue zones, they have the highest percentage per capita of centenarians, like people living more than 100.

[1002] But I think it's less about that age than it is about the quality of your years, right?

[1003] Like, you know, listen, go to the airport and look at how many people are like in wheelchairs and, you know, on walkers and stuff like that, people that are not old.

[1004] Go to Disneyland.

[1005] Yeah, it's crazy.

[1006] You ever go to Disneyland?

[1007] You see the people on scooters?

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] Overflowing out of the side of the scooters with their legs and their gut and just, whew.

[1010] Right.

[1011] So right now in America, you know, we can split hairs over, you know, should you take fish oil or not, or is it okay for you to eat the eggs from your chicken in your backyard?

[1012] But the truth is, this is not the problem that we need to be talking about.

[1013] We need to be talking about the fact that one out of every three Americans is going to die of a heart attack.

[1014] And 70 % of Americans are obese or overweight, and they're predicting that by 2030, 50 % of Americans are going to be diabetic or pre -diabetic.

[1015] Like, just think about that.

[1016] What?

[1017] Is that real?

[1018] By 2030, 50 % of Americans are going to be diabetic or.

[1019] pre -diabetic.

[1020] Diabetes is insane.

[1021] That's insane.

[1022] One out of every three people is going to die of heart disease.

[1023] Heart disease is a lifestyle and food -borne illness.

[1024] It doesn't have to exist.

[1025] And we're in this place right now.

[1026] There's sort of like some congenital versions of it.

[1027] There is for sure.

[1028] But that's not what we're talking about.

[1029] But if you look back through the sort of history of mankind, there are plenty of populations that existed for, you know, hundreds of.

[1030] and thousands of years without any significant incidence of heart disease, you know, especially in, you know, rural areas of China, you know, for long years until we started exporting our diet and lifestyle overseas.

[1031] And now, you know, it's sort of like the latest installment of the Avengers, you know, we're sending these fast food restaurants to these places and they're having, they're having, and as the sort of ascension of the middle class in China, you know, continues and they can afford to you know sort of purchase more meat products they're having heart problem they're having disease problems that they haven't seen you know it's unprecedented in the history of their culture so it seems also there's a real issue with human beings when it comes to patterns of behavior and habit that they're very very difficult to break and like as you were saying before like if you could have a day where you could cheat that day that would become the habit and then it would just you would be thinking about that one day like it's very hard for people who are extremely obese who just their their main form of pleasure is mouth pleasure of course they get that it's hardwired stuff it in their face and then that's what they're oh man that that fucking corn dog so good and that's that's where they're getting their pleasure from it's hard to deviate from that it's hard to change your patterns yeah you you are managing your emotional well -being through the food choices that you make that you make and there's a great book called Salt Sugar Fat by this guy called Michael Morris.

[1032] And he kind of looks at these big food companies and draws an analogy to the tobacco companies in the 70s in the way that these companies are funneling money and research and marketing dollars into devising food products that are specifically designed to activate that pleasure center in your brain.

[1033] Right?

[1034] So they're like they're trying to make that food impossible for you to just have one.

[1035] And once you kind of, you know, tap into that, that, you know, ability to trigger that response in somebody and you create a habit out of that, an addictive response, then you have a customer for life, right?

[1036] You know, it's like, why is it so hard to eat one fucking chip, you know?

[1037] There's a reason behind that.

[1038] There's something about the proportion of salt and grease, you know, that will just trigger something.

[1039] somebody do you know though this feeling that you have when you do indulge in some really shitty food that you just like after it's over you feel like such a loser right if i eat like a bag of chips you go into a shame spiral mm -hmm i feel angry at myself what you fucking dummy eat a bag of chips i know but when i eat a whole bag of chips too but when you're doing it you're like i can't even help myself.

[1040] It's hard.

[1041] I'm like a greedy, greedy monster.

[1042] Like, you know what I really?

[1043] I have a real weakness for those salt, sea salt and vinegar potato chips.

[1044] Uh -huh.

[1045] Good God, they're good.

[1046] The real thick ones.

[1047] The kettle chip ones?

[1048] Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

[1049] Oh, they're so good.

[1050] And you look at the bag and it says non -GMO on the front.

[1051] You're like, oh, okay.

[1052] GMO.

[1053] Excellent.

[1054] Right.

[1055] I don't want a GMO potato.

[1056] Mm -hmm.

[1057] I mean, are there even GMO potatoes?

[1058] I don't have to I don't have potatoes last a long time I don't think so I don't need to all right yeah storm heading in heading in that direction though do you eat potato chips that's my guilty pleasure oh it's tough the kettle chips are tough fucking real hard right I'm like oh that's vegan you know I try not to be bad I have a friend who's vegan he's fat as fuck well it's never been easier it's never been easier to be an unhealthy vegan I mean just walk the aisles at whole foods or air one like you know There's so many vegan, you know, ice creams now and, like, you know, sort of meat alternatives and pasta sauce.

[1059] Things that are tasty, yeah.

[1060] Spaghetti is totally vegan if you get it from the right place.

[1061] Oh, yeah.

[1062] Oh, yeah.

[1063] Yeah, so there's plenty of options now.

[1064] And so just because you're vegan, that doesn't mean that you're eating a healthy diet for sure.

[1065] You know, that's important, I think, for people understand.

[1066] Yeah.

[1067] And it's a lot of people also that think that drinking juice, drinking fruit juice is really good for you.

[1068] Be careful about that, folks, because, like, you're not supposed to...

[1069] If you drink, like, a quart of orange juice, that's not how that juice is supposed to get to your body.

[1070] The way the juice is supposed to get to your body is by eating a fucking orange.

[1071] Exactly.

[1072] Yeah, when you drink, like, a quart of pineapple juice, like, what a fucking shock of sugar to your system.

[1073] Just because it's attached to fruit, which we assume, rightly so, is healthy.

[1074] Just have some goddamn fruit.

[1075] Drink some water while you're having a big plate of...

[1076] pineapple and you'll be way better off than drinking pineapple juice yeah I couldn't agree with you more you know we were talking about fiber it's like why would you remove all the fiber yes on that plant exactly I think juicing has its place though but there's a there's a huge difference between that gallon of Tropicana at the grocery store and cold pressing you know some kale and spinach with some turmeric in it you know that's different you know what I mean like the sugar yeah and sugar is the real issue you can get it's I look at it as medicinal you know it's like if you want a really concentrated dose of of you know micronutrients and you know the kinds of highly compacted vitamins and minerals that you can get in some of these foods these plants then it has its place but but to you know run 20 oranges through a juicer and drink that you're getting a huge amount of sugar in that and you're depriving yourself of the digestive process and the fiber that comes with just eating the whole food.

[1077] Like, nature figured it out, man. Like, why are you trying to, you know, just like the more you focus on eating these kinds of foods close to their natural state, your palate changes and you start to desire them.

[1078] Like, I know these guys that are frutarian.

[1079] Like, all they eat is fruit.

[1080] Like, this is their whole lifestyle, right?

[1081] It's called the 80 -10 -10 diet, 80 % carbs, 10%, protein, 10 % fat.

[1082] But essentially what it means is they eat fruit all day long.

[1083] That's it.

[1084] Totally raw.

[1085] They'll eat like 30 bananas a day.

[1086] I've heard these guys.

[1087] Right.

[1088] And so, you know, somebody who is from the Atkins ketosis, low -carb camp will tell you that that's an extremely unhealthy thing to do.

[1089] Now, I'm not a fruitarian.

[1090] I don't have any direct experience with that.

[1091] I don't know what the long -term ramifications of living that lifestyle are.

[1092] But I do know people that live this way and they're super healthy people.

[1093] And some of them are amazing athletes.

[1094] Like my friend Michael Arnstein, he's frutarian.

[1095] He has been forever.

[1096] And he was like the fifth fastest guy at the New York City Marathon, not too many years ago.

[1097] Like an elite athlete, you know, who's eating this way.

[1098] That's interesting.

[1099] Literally, he'll, he has to eat so much fruit that he has, like, two giant extra refrigerators in his house.

[1100] And he would have to drive this big truck to, like, a fruit wholesaler once a week.

[1101] And, like, the guy at the wholesaler thought that he had, like, a bodega or something like that.

[1102] Like, because he couldn't believe how much fruit this guy was buying, you know?

[1103] One of the UFC fighters eats like that.

[1104] I believe Nate Diaz eats like that.

[1105] I think he's on that 30 bananas a day.

[1106] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1107] Well, uh...

[1108] But that didn't work.

[1109] He got his ass kicked his last night.

[1110] Yeah, I mean, Mack Danzig was playing around with it for a while.

[1111] Yeah.

[1112] I don't know if he's still on it, but people that I've talked to who have, like, dabbled in it, say that when they're doing it, they feel amazing.

[1113] And these people are trim and they don't have, you know, look, they're not getting diabetes.

[1114] And they're getting a tremendous amount of glucose.

[1115] They're also getting a huge amount of fiber, and they're still meeting their protein needs, which is interesting.

[1116] So when I look at that, it just makes me, you know, it gives me a different perspective on this obsession that we have with protein.

[1117] Like, everyone's walking around worried about, you know, meeting their protein needs.

[1118] And the truth is, is that, you know, the average semi -sedentary person is eating two to five times the recommended daily allowance of protein.

[1119] Like, it's just, it's a non -issue.

[1120] It's really kind of a red herring.

[1121] Just to clarify that Nate Diaz was probably injured, I think there was something wrong with him in his last fight, so I had nothing to do with his diet.

[1122] I'm just fucking around.

[1123] And he also fought Hafeld Dosanjos, which is one of the best fighters in the world, was the current champion.

[1124] So his diet, I'm sure, had nothing to do with him losing.

[1125] But is there higher dietary requirements of protein for people that, like, say, compete in powerlifting or things along those lines?

[1126] And are there any powerlifters that are vegan?

[1127] There is a guy called Patrick Babumian.

[1128] He's a German dude, German strong man. This dude is the human Wolverine.

[1129] He's insane.

[1130] And I had that privilege.

[1131] I made a YouTube video of it.

[1132] Maybe you guys can pull it up.

[1133] I was on stage with him at an event in Toronto a couple of years ago where he attempted to break a Guinness Book of World Record by being, by carrying more weight than any other human being ever had.

[1134] He put 1 ,200 pounds on a chassis that he carried.

[1135] He had to carry at 10 meters.

[1136] And he accomplished it.

[1137] It was extraordinary.

[1138] and the guy's totally vegan wow pull that up didn't that guy the mountain from game of thrones just break that though i think he did like 1600 pounds yeah he um he's like one of the strongest man in the world the guy oh the dude he's gonna be aquaman that guy no no no he's he's the mountain in the game of thrones he's from iceland i'm a little bit behind enormous enormous man yeah okay here's a guy go full screen on that can you or will to fuck us up our video's all fucking weird here because we do it off a tricaster oh i gotta tell you i met one of the guys that works at tricaster we're hooked up look at this guy so that's 1 ,200 pounds yeah why does that not look like it's kind of dark that doesn't look 1200 pounds it definitely is there are all these people there are verifying it and they have all the scales and shit that doesn't seem like it's 1 ,200 pounds why is that uh why does that look so light i assure you that it was how dare you how dare you how dare you lie about that that's like 50 pounds is it do you guys grade it on a scale because he's vegan?

[1139] Like it's not really 1200 pounds?

[1140] What do you mean?

[1141] A vegan 1 ,200 pounds, which is 120 pounds?

[1142] Well, he's enormous.

[1143] That guy's fucking giant.

[1144] And so whatever it is, like that guy got all that muscle from being a vegan.

[1145] Right.

[1146] Like a bull.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] And he, you know, he hasn't been a vegan his entire life, you know, so it's not like, you know, he was weird that way.

[1149] But I think he's been he's been that way long enough.

[1150] And he will tell you that his strength training improved in his agility and his ability to recover was significantly enhanced.

[1151] when he changed it to this mountain thousand -year -old weightlifting record yeah he put this fucking huge log on his back that guy's enormous what terrifying yeah it's a different it's a different animal especially Iceland there's something about Iceland you're hard there piece on Iceland the strong men of Iceland you the vice did a whole video on it like apparently the people in Iceland they have a long history of being like strong men competitors for whatever reason Yeah, there's fucking giant dudes out there, former Vikings or something.

[1152] Yeah, it's interesting.

[1153] I mean, I think, you know, to your point, your question was, you know, do you think that somebody who's of that ilk or, you know, like a power lifter or a strength athlete, if their protein requirements are higher?

[1154] I don't know.

[1155] I know that Patrick supplements with plant -based protein powders from time to time.

[1156] I don't know that, you know, he probably is taking in somewhere between 80 to 100 grams.

[1157] a day.

[1158] So it's not, it's not, yeah, like pea, brown rice, hemp protein.

[1159] I like hemp protein.

[1160] I think it's great.

[1161] Complete amino acid profile.

[1162] I mean, essentially, look, it's complicated, right?

[1163] It's not, we can't be reductionist about it.

[1164] But in the most general sense, when we're talking about protein, we're talking about amino acids, right?

[1165] We're talking about the building blocks of protein.

[1166] And we're specifically talking about the nine amino acids, you know, the essential amino acids that we can't synthesize on our own, that we have to get from the foods that we eat, right?

[1167] So it's a question of making sure that we are ingesting those nine essential amino acids, right?

[1168] So does it matter where they come from, in what form, you know, they are delivered to your body?

[1169] Does it matter if it's in hemp or if it's in steak?

[1170] We don't know.

[1171] We don't, yeah, we don't know.

[1172] All I can tell you is that, you know, I seem to be doing okay with it.

[1173] So, and I can just share my experience with it.

[1174] That's all.

[1175] Yeah, there was that issue where Travis Barker was in that plane crash.

[1176] Do you know that story?

[1177] Travis Barker, the drummer?

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] Uh -huh.

[1180] I see him at juicy ladies all the time.

[1181] Yeah, he's in the neighborhood.

[1182] He was in a plane crash and had to get skin grafts and got off of his vegan diet because of that.

[1183] Like, he was having a hard time healing and starting meat and he healed much quicker.

[1184] Yeah, I don't know.

[1185] I hadn't heard that.

[1186] But that's one of those things.

[1187] he's pretty sure he's you know he's he's he's pretty hardcore vegan he's partner in that restaurant crossroads have you been a crossroads no where's that's phenomenal restaurant yeah yeah a vegan restaurant it's in it's in hollywood yeah but it's tal ron who's a chef there is a mastermind he's a genius and the food is extraordinary you should check it out okay um i'm just stating what i heard uh what i don't know i don't about him after the accident i hadn't heard that is there any properties that would exist in flesh and blood and eating meat that would somehow another benefit you recovering from an injury?

[1188] Does that make sense?

[1189] Yeah, I don't, you know, that would expedite that process?

[1190] I mean, there are, there's a difference between the way I feel when I eat, like, wild game versus the way I feel when I eat steak that's like raised, factory raised steak or whatever there's just a difference in the way your body reacts to it like your body has like there's a there's a feeling that you eat especially like moose moose is very unusual for whatever reason when you eat moose you get this like you almost feel like it's a stimulant it's very strange like when you eat rare because you eat it rare it's very lean and there's this weird like who like you get a charge after it very similar to what i get when i eat kale shakes when i when i eat kale shake.

[1191] It's one of the things that I tell people, if you want to change your diet, like, here's one of the best ways.

[1192] Eat something healthy, get a positive reaction from that, and you want to repeat it.

[1193] And one of the best positive reactions I've ever gotten is I drink these kale shakes in the morning.

[1194] I call them Hulk loads.

[1195] I talk about it all the time.

[1196] It's kale, cucumber, celery, a large chunk of ginger, four cloves of garlic, coconut oil, and an apple.

[1197] Blend that sucker up together.

[1198] Blend that sucker up together.

[1199] and there is a nutrient blast that you get in there, that it's a tangible, stimulant sort of a feeling.

[1200] Like, I feel stimulant.

[1201] Yeah, that'll get it done, right?

[1202] And that's what I say to people all the time.

[1203] They're like, I'm like, look, man, don't worry about whether you're going to do this all the way or what you're going to do tomorrow.

[1204] Just like wake up and drink that salad for breakfast and make that connection with how you feel because truly nothing will make you feel better in the morning.

[1205] than drinking a super nutrient dense green shake.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] It's just, you know, I mean, whether it has, you know, you can have variations on a theme.

[1208] Like, I do something similar.

[1209] It's a little bit different and it's never the same.

[1210] You know, I change it from day to day or whatever.

[1211] But once you make that connection and you're like, oh, wow.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] You know, then that starts to change the microbial ecology in your gut.

[1214] Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it?

[1215] And I think we talked about this last time, too, like all these studies that are coming out about how important.

[1216] your microbiome is to all kinds of things that impact your health and and how and how there's some evidence to suggest that the quality of your gut biome can impact your cravings right oh for sure so sugar when you have that's a real issue with sugar right so when people say well i just crave this you know my body's telling me that i need it well that's not an objective analysis right just because you crave something that doesn't mean that your body needs it right it might though maybe it might but it might but if i yeah exactly right so how do you discern between the two yeah that's an interesting point um well that's absolutely a fact when it comes to gut microbes when it comes to sugar that if you feed those microbes a lot of sugar they become dependent upon it and they need it to survive and so they're they're impulsing you i need more of that it's not bizarre and then you're in this cycle so they analyze the gut biome of people that are like chocoholics, right?

[1217] And it was very different from people that are ambivalent about chocolate.

[1218] That's such a bizarre thing that you could have these organisms living inside your intestinal track that are actually changing the way you crave things.

[1219] So they're sending some sort of stimulus that gets to your brain and it's altering the way you want food in your body.

[1220] Well, it's an assault to your idea that you're a sentient human being who is in control of your thoughts and then that leads to you know the question of higher consciousness versus you know the sort of looping you know kind of uh thing that your brain can do right like what is that you know when you observe your own thoughts what is it that you're who's the observer right you know what I mean like so yeah yeah you can get down that rabbit hole you know what I mean like if you're having a dream and you're having a conversation with somebody in a dream and you're surprised at what somebody tells you but you're imagining that right right so because you didn't know in your dream that that person was going to say that thing to you but on some level obviously you did well that's the complex nuances of creativity right for sure and and the complex nuances of just consciousness yes yeah the idea that there could be microbes in your body that are stimulating and changing the way your brain functions is so that seems so alien to people because we like to think of ourselves as autonomous.

[1221] But we're not.

[1222] We're, we're, we're, we're far more microbe than human.

[1223] Way more.

[1224] I mean, the percentage, I don't know, I can't remember what the percentage is, but it's ridiculous.

[1225] Like, like the number of, of microorganisms like trumps the number of cells you have in your body by like a factor of, you know, some, I don't know if it's 10 or something crazy.

[1226] Well, there's more E. coli living in your gut than there have ever been people ever.

[1227] That's, that's real.

[1228] Those are real numbers.

[1229] There's also, it's not, it's not, you know, you have to.

[1230] have a healthy symbiotic relationship with this right like you need it to live it's part of being healthy yeah we talked about this i believe last time the various forms of probiotics that you engage in uh sourcrow i think you said one of them kimchi kimchi i love kimchi kimchi is great love that stuff boy my wife fucking hates it though says it makes me smell tough shit yeah kombucha i love that stuff too yeah yeah but you know it pisses me off man that they fucking that uh gt's kombucha had to pull the really good stuff and put that water down horseshit because it's more than one half of one percent alcohol because of the fermentation process of microbes yeah tiny trace of fermentation that like left a little bit of alcohol on it that caused this whole thing and they had to pull it they had to pull everything we we started we started making our own have you ever made your own yes i did just so you have the big scobie i've been a kombucha drinker since 94 oh wow and when i started drinking it um Andy dick turned me on to it And Andy Dick gave me a fucking, a slab of kombucha fungus to take home.

[1231] And I got a bowl, and I started brewing it in my refrigerator.

[1232] That's OG, man. Old school.

[1233] That was long before, you know, GTs or anybody was doing this.

[1234] Oh, you couldn't buy it.

[1235] I used to have a bowl, like a huge salad bowl in my refrigerator with a fucking living fungus in it.

[1236] And I would have the saran wrap on it.

[1237] And there was sugar and stuff in the bowl.

[1238] I forget what the ingredients were.

[1239] and it would feed off of that, and I would leave it in there for a certain amount of time, and then pour it into a glass and drink it.

[1240] It's great, but it was too much of a pain in the ass.

[1241] And then somewhere in the late 90s, I started finding it in stores, and then I got into it.

[1242] But now, you mean, I have a bunch here.

[1243] It's everywhere.

[1244] I don't go, I mean, I drink it every day.

[1245] And when I go on the road, most of the times I'll find a whole foods, and I'll stock up on it and leave it in my hotel room.

[1246] I think it's probiotics are so, I'm very rarely sick.

[1247] I mean, very rarely, and I travel a lot.

[1248] And one of the things that I attribute that to is probiotics.

[1249] I think that you really, it's one of the unsung heroes of the immune system that people don't take into consideration, the symbiotic relationship that we have with all these weird microorganisms that you ingest.

[1250] And the more of those you have, the less deficits you have in terms of, of your nutritional intake and the more positive microbes and positive bioorganisms that you take into your body, the more you're going to have, the whole system's going to function better, and you're going to be able to fight off immune or fight off disease better.

[1251] Yeah, for sure.

[1252] The example that I always give, I think I might have shared this last time.

[1253] I'm not sure.

[1254] This last time was a long time ago, by the way.

[1255] It was probably nobody saw that anyway.

[1256] But the example that I always give is from Super Size Me, the Morgan Spurlock documentary where he decides he's going to eat McDonald's for 30 days straight.

[1257] And for people that saw the movie, you might remember that, you know, a couple days in into this experiment, you know, he just, he can't imagine how he's going to make it through 30 days.

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] And there's that scene where he's in the car and he actually vomits out the window after he drinks a milkshake or something like that.

[1260] And he's just like, this is the worst.

[1261] And then fast forward, like, two weeks later.

[1262] And there's a scene where he's, like, waking up in the morning.

[1263] And he's like, oh, I feel so.

[1264] sick.

[1265] He's like, I feel terrible.

[1266] He's like, let's go to McDonald's, you know, for his breakfast.

[1267] And then he eats his whatever he ate for breakfast at McDonald's that morning.

[1268] And like, he walks out and he's like, I feel awesome.

[1269] You know, like, he had to get there's like, yeah, he had to get his fix.

[1270] And so you know, what I see in that is somebody whose microbiome has adjusted.

[1271] He has replaced, because at the time his girlfriend was a vegan chef, right?

[1272] So he was coming off of eating, essentially, you know, plant -based diet, goes into this McDonald's thing.

[1273] And by virtue of, you know, bombarding his system with McDonald's food, he repopulates his gut biome with the kind of microorganisms that feed off McDonald's food, right?

[1274] So suddenly, you know, because those microorganisms are on the food that you're eating, right?

[1275] And then they seed into your gut and then they start to propagate.

[1276] and suddenly he's craving these foods that were making him sick two weeks earlier that he couldn't imagine continuing to eat.

[1277] That's the weirdest thing about diet is you're essentially creating a civilization in your body.

[1278] It's a trip.

[1279] It really is.

[1280] I mean, you are a superorganism.

[1281] You are a container.

[1282] And human beings are the microbiome of the planet Earth, right?

[1283] Yeah.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] I mean, that's a good sign.

[1286] that our Earth is sick when you check out our ocean.

[1287] We're an unhealthy gut bacteria for the planet.

[1288] In a lot of ways, I mean, it really is.

[1289] It's almost like everything behaves in this sort of fractal manner where, you know, the bigger you get, like, I mean, and the Earth itself is probably, you know, a microbe in the greater sense of the galaxy, which is a microbe in the greater sense of the universe, and it's all sort of connected in some weird way.

[1290] and the lower you get down to gut microbes and how you fuel those gut microbes and how it impacts the health of the actual superorganism itself, the human being.

[1291] It's really fascinating.

[1292] It really is.

[1293] It really is when you stop and think about it because very few people think of themselves as being a host for life.

[1294] Like, I am just this, I'm just trying to keep my garden healthy, you know, the garden of my body, which is filled.

[1295] No, you think of it, I am rich roll.

[1296] I am this one.

[1297] I am the one.

[1298] I am one.

[1299] I am one thing.

[1300] But you're not.

[1301] No one is one thing.

[1302] But the brain thinks it's one thing.

[1303] Which is a fucker, man. It's what a weird thing that your brain doesn't realize, hey, you know, I'm getting all these signals to eat McDonald's because I've got all these weird asshole McDonald's bacteria living in my gut.

[1304] And what I need to do, I need to get some cucumber bacteria down in there to fuck with the McDonald's bacteria.

[1305] It's a very fascinating.

[1306] thing to be a human being and to be completely disconnected from that reality without externally taking it in in the form of education and knowledge and then having to internalize it, having to think about and go, okay, I need to take into consideration that I am not just a one.

[1307] I am a container for all these different organisms and the amount of positive organisms will directly affect the way the brain works.

[1308] Fuck.

[1309] That's hard to think, man. That's hard to wrap your head around.

[1310] Then factor in the emotional override that takes over that compels you to take an action irrespective of the logical choice after you've been educated.

[1311] Sure.

[1312] Because I think that's, you know, equally as powerful, if not more powerful.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] And oftentimes that can be adjusted, all of it can be adjusted with most.

[1315] Momentum.

[1316] If you can just just fucking force yourself into a pattern that's more positive, just somehow or another say, okay, you know, like some people say, I'm going to start training for a marathon.

[1317] I'm going to start on Monday and Monday I'm going to run, you know, two miles and then, you know, we're going to be on the system of recovery and this is what I'm going to do.

[1318] And you're going to go into training.

[1319] I'm going to start a training camp.

[1320] It's all written down.

[1321] And if you can do that, if you can do that with your diet, I can't tell you.

[1322] How many people have come up to me and said, I have lost a tremendous amount of weight since listening to your podcast because I started incorporating kale shakes into my diet.

[1323] That's my primary breakfast is a kale shake and it changed everything.

[1324] I mean, I'm talking about hundreds.

[1325] It's almost like a joke.

[1326] Like I run into people and they go, dude, I lost 100 pounds from your podcast.

[1327] Okay, another guy.

[1328] It's almost like a joke.

[1329] Like you guys are all.

[1330] I mean, you tweeted out that I was coming on the podcast and there's like 50, you know, comments after that about Hulkloads.

[1331] It's like all about the Hulk load.

[1332] Well, I added beats to the Hulk loads because of you.

[1333] Yeah, oh, you did?

[1334] You recommended, yeah, yeah.

[1335] Beats will get you out of bed in the morning.

[1336] Beats are fantastic.

[1337] That's the ultimate, like, pre -workout boost.

[1338] What a nutrient -rich plant that is, or root that is.

[1339] They're amazing.

[1340] Just, like, the first time you do it, though, don't freak out.

[1341] The first time you take a dump.

[1342] I know, right?

[1343] It'll be all bloody red.

[1344] Like, oh, I'm dying.

[1345] Oh, I eat beats.

[1346] I know.

[1347] Yeah.

[1348] You know what's crazy is, you go to the store and you get the beats.

[1349] right and you put them on the thing and like unless you say otherwise they they're going to cut the the beak greens off and throw them away like that's the good stuff man it's also good as well yeah it's definitely good as well i mean i don't know why people don't think that that's edible isn't that strange it's like we just have this idea that we're very rigid and like our idea like what you eat and what you don't eat like that put just throw that out chop that off beak greens are awesome yeah they don't taste bad it's not like it's uh it's weird you don't you never see a beet green salad that's not that's not common you do it at our house Joe Rogan whoa rich roll just called me out um what are what is some other like I mean here's a funny thing that I fucking saw the other day at Whole Foods bok choy is the new kale how about it's bok choy you fucks that's good too it's not the new kale it's just market but what is that why do people have to do that why have they ruin everything with their nonsense just orange is the new black we live in a commercial you know we live in a commercial you know society, right?

[1350] They've got to push something else out there.

[1351] I don't know.

[1352] You know, it's the same thing that, you know, there's a, you know, why BuzzFeed is always, you know, there's crazy headlines about crazy stuff that's inflammatory and whatever.

[1353] Clickbait.

[1354] It's like, exactly.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] Do you grow your own vegetables?

[1357] That's our next thing that we're looking into.

[1358] And we have a bunch of land.

[1359] So it's underutilized.

[1360] And so we've just started meeting with a bunch of people to start.

[1361] start growing.

[1362] Yeah, we've been doing that for a while now at my house.

[1363] And it's, it's very rewarding to have, like, we had a cucumber salad the other day, cucumber and tomato salad.

[1364] It was so good.

[1365] It was like, this, I saw this when it was a fucking seed in a little container and put it in the dirt.

[1366] And what do you use for a fur?

[1367] Oh, you don't grow.

[1368] So you don't have like, yeah, yeah.

[1369] We're, I mean, you know, we'll, we'll get into that once we start growing.

[1370] But the one thing that we are doing, which is fucking awesome is, uh, we started, um, we have, we have all these, uh, uh, beehives now.

[1371] We have like 40 hives at our house that we're hosting for a friend who is like an organic beekeeper who creates his own honey.

[1372] And that's been super interesting.

[1373] Also for the kids to like learn about, you know, what that's all about.

[1374] I mean, that is so interesting.

[1375] That's cool.

[1376] Which is really cool.

[1377] I want to do that.

[1378] And I also, I was thinking about doing that.

[1379] I was like, God, it's a lot of work.

[1380] I had to bring a fucking beehive guy and all.

[1381] But I found out about this new invention.

[1382] Yeah, yeah.

[1383] This guy in Australia has created.

[1384] You've seen it?

[1385] The tap?

[1386] It's the, yeah, he had like the craziest Kickstarter of all time.

[1387] Yeah, yeah, I retweeted it.

[1388] He raised like insane millions of dollars.

[1389] He was only trying to raise like 100 grand or 200 grand or something and he raised like $4 million in like no time because it's in his invention is so astounding.

[1390] Well, I was definitely a part of that because when I got it, it wasn't nearly that much.

[1391] I, I tweeted the shit out of that.

[1392] I thought it was amazing.

[1393] It's a tap.

[1394] You actually probably had a lot to do with him raising all the A little bit of something.

[1395] I mean, I'm sure a lot of people reacted the way I...

[1396] Well, look, the 100 % of what had to do with it was this invention is amazing.

[1397] 12 million!

[1398] Holy shit!

[1399] Dude, when I looked at it, I swear to God, I don't think it was more than a couple hundred thousand dollars.

[1400] I mean, I think I looked at it maybe a couple weeks ago, and I think it was like at four.

[1401] Which is a lot.

[1402] That's amazing, but it just shows how cool it is.

[1403] Well, a good idea, you know?

[1404] Well, let's play it, because it's really amazing.

[1405] if anybody hasn't hurt.

[1406] Well, you know, the people that are listening, you're only going to hear it.

[1407] But this guy's invented a beehive that essentially has, there's a dial that you can turn, and the dial changes the honeycombs into a flow pattern.

[1408] It actually opens up, and then the honey drips down slowly into these jars.

[1409] It doesn't disturb the bees.

[1410] It doesn't disturb any of the normal, natural processes that these bees, you know, engaging.

[1411] to make honey and it's so much less invasive and when you see it if you go to the video it's called flow hive if you go to the video online it'll do a much better job of explaining how all this is made but it's uh it's really fucking cool right it's indigo go go right it's indigo yeah but it you don't get the bee pollen and uh you don't get the uh the actual honeycomb itself which i like to eat i love that stuff yeah i mean the idea is that you're not disturbing the bees, right?

[1412] You're not really invading their, you're not impeding on their kind of habitat to extract the honey.

[1413] Was that make honey vegan now?

[1414] Because honey wasn't vegan for a long time.

[1415] I mean, look, there are, there is a hardcore, you know, vegan perspective that, that honey, you know, you shouldn't eat honey.

[1416] It's an animal product.

[1417] But it's not.

[1418] And I respect people that have that opinion.

[1419] I mean, I think that, you know, my perspective on it is, is that, you know, our bee populations are threatened and because of, you know, pesticides, human beings being fucking idiots.

[1420] And, you know, we've, we've fucked a lot of shit up, right?

[1421] Cell phones, too, right?

[1422] And so I think that, that, you know, our family is trying to be of service by helping foster, you know, the cultivation of bee populations in a, you know, in a sustainable way.

[1423] Like, by being, by getting involved, you know, there's one, there's one school of thought, like, we'll leave it alone.

[1424] right but this is a this is a threatened you know population that needs a little bit of you know graceful intervention and we're to help help them you know foster their population so to the extent that you know i can play a small part in that i think that's a cool thing no i think that's a cool thing as well and i and i agree there's there's that the very hardcore uh segment of the vegan population that don't think that you should eat honey but they don't have it like this you You know, this is like, normally when you get honey, it's like this really complicated process.

[1425] You have to pull the hives out.

[1426] You have to scrape the honey off and extract it in that way.

[1427] This is, it's totally different.

[1428] This is a different animal.

[1429] Yeah, I mean, commercial honey production, you know, there's practices involved with that that are harmful to those insects, right?

[1430] So to the extent that you can find a better way to do it, where you're still, you know, able to harvest the honey in a way that, that is not, you know, kind of overly tapping into what they need to survive and thrive.

[1431] I don't know, you know.

[1432] It's also, again, this is like, you know, it gets into, like, splitting hairs.

[1433] It's like, all right, we're going to talk about this when we have, you know, when, you know, 55 % of CO2 emissions is caused by animal agriculture.

[1434] Like, we have bigger.

[1435] Fish to fry.

[1436] Like, so, you know, I'm just trying to kind of, you know, help be populations in our tiny little way by educating my kids about it and by being a home to these 40 hives which is a trip but that's a it's a lot of hives 40 hives yeah like what is it like how much space is there they're like I think they stack them four high so there's 10 of those 10 boxes towers yeah how tall is the tower down the hill I don't know three or four feet high and it was they brought them in the middle of the night and it was like okay like are we going to have swarming B you know is there going to be like and you're we were like Don't go near them for a couple days, like let them acclimate.

[1437] You know, they have to get used to, like, their environment.

[1438] Wow.

[1439] I mean, the way the bee populations function is a trip.

[1440] It's really trippy.

[1441] The little aliens.

[1442] Do you have to plant specific flowers around your area to help them?

[1443] We haven't had to do that.

[1444] I mean, the big kind of hurdle that we had to get over was making sure that we had adequate water supply for them.

[1445] But not that I'm aware of.

[1446] We have, in our property, we have specific plants and flowers that attract bees.

[1447] and other ones that attract hummingbirds.

[1448] We have a lot of hummingbirds on our property just because of that because we put certain plants and flowers.

[1449] But the bees have a real issue, apparently, with cell phones.

[1450] I was reading this whole thing about how...

[1451] Oh, the towers, like, impact them, something like that.

[1452] The actual signals themselves, they impact the bees' ability to communicate.

[1453] They fuck with their head.

[1454] They hear that shit.

[1455] It wouldn't surprise me. I mean, the way that they have the hive mind, in the way that they sort of function in that way.

[1456] Like, you know, the frequency at which they're communicating is so mysterious and amazing.

[1457] Yeah, it's so cool.

[1458] I've told the story before, but you might not have heard it.

[1459] When we were on Fear Factor, one of the stunts they had, they had these people, they had to get handcuffed to a pole or something like that, and then we covered them with bees.

[1460] And while we're doing this, the beekeeper told us that we had to stop filming because a local population of bees had came over to investigate his population of bees and they were above us in this cloud in the air sorting it out.

[1461] They weren't fighting.

[1462] They were somehow or another communicating like who the fuck are you guys?

[1463] Oh man we're here for a TV show okay so you're not moving in no we're not moving in are you guys taking our pollen no we're not taking your pollen like and they had it worked it out they worked it out and then worked it out they disappeared and then we kept filming but it took We had to stop.

[1464] It was really cool.

[1465] It was really cool to watch because it was like, what is going on?

[1466] And I, you know, and I, everybody was, it was weird how people weren't interested in it.

[1467] Because they're like, oh, we got to stop filming.

[1468] Apparently, like, those local bee population that's intermixed with this big population, I was like, what?

[1469] First of all, I was high as fuck.

[1470] So it was super, super interesting to me. So I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, they're talking?

[1471] Like, how do you know who's bees or who's bees?

[1472] He goes, and he was like, you could tell just by the way they're swarming in the air.

[1473] They're trying to work this out and so there was this like small cloud of these bees because he had brought a lot of bees and the local bees got together with his bees and they were hovering and they but they had to disperse like they told everyone to get away they told the crew to get away everyone leave the area you know he wanted to make sure that there was nothing fucking with this interaction this strange because he has you have like the bee whisperer guy yeah he's a deep respect for bees this guy really does love bees it was really Really interesting.

[1474] It was interesting for me, too, because that was covered with bees in that episode.

[1475] I mean, they were all over my hair, my face, and my arms and everything like that.

[1476] And I never got stung.

[1477] I didn't get stung one.

[1478] A couple people got stung on the set, but I don't know, you know, what happened.

[1479] It could have been, like, you know, like, maybe if, like, a bee's in your armpit and you move your arm and it gets trapped, and it's like, fuck this, and it stings you.

[1480] Probably just accidental circumstances that came from having millions or thousands or whatever it was at bees.

[1481] Right, right.

[1482] That's pretty interesting.

[1483] Yeah, it was really cool.

[1484] It was really cool seeing them all get together and try to figure it out.

[1485] Just flying overhead, just communicating something in some way that we just really don't even have a clue.

[1486] We believe pheromones are involved.

[1487] But we also know that there's some sort of signal that they're sending out.

[1488] We just don't know what it is.

[1489] You know?

[1490] The whole insect world is a real trip.

[1491] I mean, they really are alien.

[1492] They really are some strange alien life form.

[1493] We found them on another planet.

[1494] We'd be blown away.

[1495] Yeah.

[1496] I mean, you know, just the idea that there's a queen and the fact that the hive is lost without it.

[1497] Yeah.

[1498] And that everything kind of falls into place when the queen is, you know, inserted into the population.

[1499] I mean, I can't begin to, you know, it's like, I know very little about this.

[1500] How about the queen's a murdering bitch?

[1501] She's got a fucking stinger that doesn't come off.

[1502] It doesn't, she doesn't have, like, barbs on it the way everyone else does.

[1503] And what she does is she wanders around the hive looking for female babies, and she stabs them right through the fucking honeycomb.

[1504] Yeah.

[1505] That's what the female uses her stinger for.

[1506] It's like Game of Thrones.

[1507] Oh, it's awful.

[1508] She's a fucking heartless cunt.

[1509] And, you know, one day she will be usurped.

[1510] A new female will come along and kick her ass, and that's it.

[1511] But right now, she's going to stab those babies.

[1512] So she runs around, like, sticking her needle in the honeycomb.

[1513] When she smells a female, there's a fucking girl in there.

[1514] No threat.

[1515] take my spot no threat to the throne yeah it's a very bizarre world of bugs have you ever seen the leaf cutter ant uh the documentary they did where they um they cemented they poured cement through this leaf cutter ant um hive this enormous hill and then they dug it out and revealed the structure yeah it was incredibly labyrinthine right and it went it was vast right it was huge yeah huge and incredibly complex like they had areas where these leaves would ferment and then they had pipes that led like tubes that led through to the sky or to the surface area where they would hit air so that they could the fermentation process the gases could be released yeah that's crazy like with these tiny brains Oh, fuck are they figuring that out?

[1516] Like, we don't even know.

[1517] Well, human beings would fuck that up in an instant.

[1518] For sure.

[1519] Unions would get involved.

[1520] Yeah, there it is.

[1521] Caving in.

[1522] Look at that.

[1523] Oh, right.

[1524] Yeah, I did see this.

[1525] Industry in the rainforest.

[1526] Right.

[1527] It's like they did an archaeological dig to, like, extract it, right?

[1528] Yeah, they filled it up with cement.

[1529] And, I mean, it's, first of all, it's enormous.

[1530] I mean, you look at how wide it is.

[1531] It's probably 50 feet wide.

[1532] I mean, it's insane.

[1533] It's very deep as well.

[1534] and there's so much to it there's so much going on there and how are they communicating who is the architect of all this structure how did they figure this out they all know how to do this like what in the fuck man unbelievable unbelievable and unbelievable and a huge fucking mystery until a decade or two ago we had no idea what the fuck was even below the surface we had no idea what they were doing down there i mean it really is amazing it is just absolutely amazing have you seen the ant death spiral have you ever seen that no whoa that's a trip check you're like king of the obscure animal video so i do my free free time man i love to watch uh animal nature videos because i think it's very underappreciated the the uniqueness or the just the just the eccentricities of the animal world just how amazing and fascinating complex it is.

[1535] What is that crazy rodent that looks like a...

[1536] Tapibara?

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] Do you see that one where they're climbing into a hot tub?

[1539] No. They have like this hot tub party?

[1540] There's an animal, there's an ant death spiral.

[1541] This is an ant death spiral.

[1542] And this is when the queen dies.

[1543] When a queen dies and the scent is no longer there, and they don't know who to follow.

[1544] They don't know what the fuck to do.

[1545] And they go into this spiral, and they will just do this until they run out of energy and food and they will fucking die.

[1546] I mean, I'm probably doing a really shitty job of explaining this.

[1547] They'll just continue to spin like that until they just perish.

[1548] Yeah, yeah.

[1549] They don't know where to go.

[1550] They don't know who to follow.

[1551] I mean, there's a hierarchy in the ant community.

[1552] I'm sure it could be explained.

[1553] See if you can find an explanation for it, Jamie.

[1554] I probably butcher it.

[1555] But the idea being that they're following the scent of the queen, And somehow they know they lose it, and so they don't know what to do, so they just start going in a spiral.

[1556] Maybe someone stepped on the queen or something happened.

[1557] They removed the queen, perhaps.

[1558] And a bird might have stolen the queen.

[1559] Like a dragon come down, swoop, take away their queen.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] World's crazy, mysterious place.

[1562] Well, insects in particular, we don't think of them that much because they're so small.

[1563] But ants have the almost exact same calculated biomass as human.

[1564] beings when it comes to weight, meaning that there's exactly the same amount of ant weight per the bodies of ants on earth as there are humans.

[1565] Oh, oh, I mean in total.

[1566] In total.

[1567] Like if you added up all the ants and all the humans, that the total mass would be the equal.

[1568] Mm -hmm.

[1569] Yeah, that's crazy.

[1570] Fuck.

[1571] That's how many ants there are.

[1572] How many fucking ants does it take to equal a hundred and, you know, 80 -pound person?

[1573] It's got to be a lot.

[1574] What's the average height or weight of a person?

[1575] It's probably somewhere around there, like 160 or something like that, between men and women.

[1576] Not in the U .S. Yeah, it's like 100 pounds more than that, right?

[1577] The average, who is it?

[1578] How to Make Ants Commit Suicide would go into a spiral.

[1579] You can make them do it?

[1580] Why would you do that, Dick?

[1581] Yeah, that's totally not cool.

[1582] You simply divert the ants into an enclosed space such as a plant pot.

[1583] The largest ant mill ever discovers was staggering 1 ,200 feet in diameter, with each ant, completing a circuit every two and a half hours.

[1584] Holy shit.

[1585] Whoa.

[1586] So you can make them do it?

[1587] That unable to break free, owing to their lack of sight, and they march around in a loop until they dropped out.

[1588] What does it say before that?

[1589] It explains it.

[1590] How do they remove the...

[1591] Army ants navigate by following the fernoan trails left behind by others.

[1592] However, should enough of them lose the scent, they begin to follow the ant immediately in front of them in a huge ant spiral forms.

[1593] Ah, whoa.

[1594] They follow the scent of those in front of them.

[1595] What's a fucking trip, man?

[1596] How weird.

[1597] It's weird that not only did nature somehow or another have a need for this, but it, you know, it came about, it developed, and it's been the same way, that way, for who knows how many millions of years.

[1598] What is the evolutionary purpose of that, though?

[1599] Yeah, just they follow each other.

[1600] They can't see shit.

[1601] But who the fuck is the first guy?

[1602] What does he know?

[1603] How does he know what he's doing?

[1604] You're going deep, Joe.

[1605] Cutting up leaves and making these fermentation bowls in the ground and like, what a trippy fucking world the insect world is.

[1606] The insect world to me is one of the most bizarre worlds or the, you know, most overlooked.

[1607] Because they're so small, we don't think of them as alien.

[1608] as they truly are you know if an ant was the size of a dog it would freak you the fuck out i mean it's downright prehistoric yeah oh beyond yeah i mean they're they're prehistoric even to dinosaurs dinosaurs look at ants and what the fuck is that crazy thing with an exoskeleton with unbelievable physical strength i mean the physical strength that an ant has yeah the power to weight ratio is pretty off the charts oh it's credible incredible incredible i mean you ever seen ants carry large things away just what the fuck man Yeah, the ant world is a ruthless, evil, vicious world, too.

[1609] You ever see when the female ants get a hold of, I think it's leaf cutters as well, they get a hold of a male.

[1610] Males are larger and they have wings.

[1611] It might not be leaf cutters, but whatever it is, they chop the wings off of the male, chop his arms off and legs, and then carry him to the hive to breed.

[1612] I haven't seen that.

[1613] Biches.

[1614] So rude.

[1615] I got to bone up on my nature videos, I think.

[1616] Yeah, I probably have to bone down.

[1617] I probably have too many of them in there.

[1618] Too much useless information.

[1619] I have the time, Joe.

[1620] I don't know.

[1621] I don't know where it comes from.

[1622] I just, I get compelled to research things and to follow up and to start reading and watching things.

[1623] And the next thing you know, I've gone on this crazy cycle.

[1624] Is that a, yeah.

[1625] What kind of ants it is?

[1626] The biggest ants.

[1627] Two and a half inches.

[1628] That's a big -ass ant.

[1629] Well, have you ever seen?

[1630] Ant with wings.

[1631] My friend Brian Cowan at one point in time was studying to be an ant scientist, and he had spent some time in rainforest.

[1632] I think it was Borneo, New Guinea, I forget what it was.

[1633] But they had to, everyone stayed in these tents, these elevated platforms.

[1634] They had a coat the posts with turpentine.

[1635] Yeah, yeah.

[1636] Because there were so many ants, and if the army ants found you, if they found you and one of them decided to bite you, just like they follow the same.

[1637] scent, then millions and millions and millions and they would just eat you alive.

[1638] And people would regularly get killed by ants there.

[1639] That's crazy.

[1640] How about the fact they kill elephants?

[1641] They climb up the elephant's leg, they find the ear, and they start eating the fucking elephant's brain.

[1642] And then they all follow the scent, and they all follow, go up the elephant's body, and eat his fucking brain alive.

[1643] Yeah.

[1644] From the inside out.

[1645] Ants kill a lot of things.

[1646] You wouldn't think so.

[1647] Well, it's, all you have to do is leave, like, something out on your kitchen counter for five minutes.

[1648] And out of mysterious nowhere, a line of ants will appear.

[1649] Yeah.

[1650] And then if you remove it, they disappear.

[1651] Well, have you ever seen something outside that, like, wasn't there before?

[1652] And then all of a sudden the flies find it.

[1653] And then within minutes, there's all these fucking flies.

[1654] There was no flies.

[1655] And then within minutes, they find this, and somehow in there, they go, yo, yo, yo, here we go.

[1656] We got something.

[1657] and then there's all these fucking flies.

[1658] It's very, like, how are they doing that?

[1659] Like, we don't even know.

[1660] We have no idea.

[1661] I don't know.

[1662] You got diverted.

[1663] You need, I know.

[1664] You need a insectologist.

[1665] Is that what they would be called?

[1666] Nope.

[1667] Some sort of a word for that.

[1668] What is it?

[1669] Entomologist?

[1670] Entomologist, that's right.

[1671] Is that what it is?

[1672] Yeah.

[1673] What's the study of words, the origins of words?

[1674] Etymology.

[1675] Etymology.

[1676] Don't get confused.

[1677] Don't order one and get the other.

[1678] I'm trying to.

[1679] to find out the origin of the word cunt well i know about bugs and i don't know what you're trying there's a lot of layers to that brian callan what what compelled him to want to study that i don't know he's a lot of layers to brian yeah brian's a deep dude you know you start getting to know him you dig deeper and deeper and deeper you find out his educational background and he's he knows a lot of shit about weird stuff you know yeah yeah yeah but that that freaked him out he said he could hear them marching in the ants you hear them walking at night Yeah, that's crazy.

[1680] So many of them on the floor that you just, you realize, like, oh, my God, there's millions of them.

[1681] You were talking about how you're a huge radio lab fan, right?

[1682] Yes.

[1683] Have you gotten down with this show Invisibilia?

[1684] No, what is that?

[1685] Oh, it's pretty cool, man. I think you would dig it.

[1686] Is that a different podcast?

[1687] Yeah, it's a different podcast.

[1688] It's another one of those invisibilia.

[1689] It's another kind of NPR offshoot, you know, like how sort of Ira Glass at this American Life, all these producers that have worked for him, have now started all these other podcasts.

[1690] Super interesting stories.

[1691] There was one recently about a guy who, I guess, is a pretty well -known guy.

[1692] He's blind.

[1693] I think he went blind as a, like, a four -year -old or something like that.

[1694] He lost his sight.

[1695] And he started, in school, he started making these, like, clicking noises with his mouth, like, like that.

[1696] And his teachers would say, you know, what are you doing?

[1697] Settle down.

[1698] doing that and his mother realized very early on that there was some purpose to this there were some reason why he was doing this echo location yeah and and what they realized is that he was developing over many years of practicing this like a finely attuned sonar ability like he would literally be able to figure out like where he was and what was in a room and what was going on by basically making these clicking noises and the in the sound waves bouncing off and the and the sound waves bouncing off and he developed the security to be able to discern from that the parameters of his environment to the extent that he like goes running he like rides a bike what's insane like what this guy has been able to do as a blind person he goes running and his whole thing is his whole thing is that he doesn't think that he's anything special he thinks that all blind people could develop this skill but that our education Education around blindness is sort of a vernacular of disability, right, where we say, well, you're disabled, you can't do this, so we're going to put you into this system, and this is how we do it with blind people.

[1699] And he's like, that's bullshit.

[1700] Like, everybody could learn to do what I'm doing.

[1701] We need to, like, empower blind people in this way.

[1702] It's super interesting.

[1703] It was like a long interview with this guy.

[1704] But anyway, each week they have some kind of interesting story like that.

[1705] Well, there was a video of a young kid who can do that.

[1706] A young kid who walks on the street makes clicking noises and he knows where trash cans are and stuff.

[1707] That's crazy, right?

[1708] Yeah.

[1709] So like the latent abilities that we all have, right, if we develop them.

[1710] It's sort of like how the disability unlocks some other aspect of your brain that needs to develop in order to survive.

[1711] One of the best pool players in the world is a young man named Shane Van Boning and he's deaf.

[1712] It's been deaf since birth.

[1713] And when he plays, he shuts his hearing aid off.

[1714] And it allows him to concentrate more.

[1715] Yeah, here's this guy.

[1716] Look at this.

[1717] Oh, that's the guy.

[1718] That's him.

[1719] This is a different guy than the other guy was a young black guy.

[1720] Right, so this is the guy from the podcast.

[1721] So is he clicking?

[1722] He's completely blind.

[1723] In fact, he doesn't even have eyes, say for prosthetic ones.

[1724] Daniel has never seen a tree, a car, or even the bicycle he's riding.

[1725] So how does he know where he's going?

[1726] He's literally driving on the street.

[1727] The answer can be found in the clicking sound you hear.

[1728] It's called echolocation.

[1729] Bats use it to fly around in the dark, and dolphins use it to navigate the oceans.

[1730] Daniel uses echolocation or sound to see.

[1731] Every environment has its own acoustical signature, every surface has its own acoustical signature.

[1732] Daniel was born with an aggressive form of eye cancer, called retinal blastoma.

[1733] By the time he was 13 months old, both of his eyes were removed.

[1734] You're 45.

[1735] So you lost your sight at such a young age.

[1736] You don't have any memory of vision.

[1737] I have no memories at all.

[1738] I was using echolocation from the age of two or younger, but I really didn't know that much about it.

[1739] It was just how you adapted to your environment without really understanding it?

[1740] Yes, I doubt very seriously that most sighted people give much thought or attention about how they see.

[1741] So I really didn't give much thought or attention about how I see.

[1742] Daniel uses eco -location to ride his bike, cook.

[1743] Is this a dish that you normally cook, Daniel, or are you experimenting with me?

[1744] This is a total experiment.

[1745] And even hike, alone in the mountains.

[1746] Using sound to see can be a hard concept for a sighted person to understand.

[1747] What the fuck?

[1748] But Daniel will tell you, he sees his environment as a series of images created in his mind based on what he hears using echolocation.

[1749] So you're calling out into the environment.

[1750] You're essentially asking the environment, what are you and where are you, and you're receiving those answers.

[1751] So you're getting an image in your mind?

[1752] Yes, I definitely get three -dimensional images with depth and character and richness.

[1753] And I can process those, and I can interact with those.

[1754] From his modest bungalow in Long Beach, Daniel runs a small non -profit called World Access for the Blind.

[1755] Since being established in 2000, world access has been the lone voice preaching echolocation.

[1756] In fact, every major blind organization in America does not support Daniel's mission.

[1757] So Daniel, the National Federation of the Blind will say that echolocation is just too complicated for most blinds.

[1758] people to grasp.

[1759] It's not so much the Federation that's a concern.

[1760] You have here a blindness profession, the blindness field, who by and large really kind of intractably remains committed, if you will, to a traditional approach, which is about, in my opinion, restriction.

[1761] It is about this is how you do things.

[1762] This is the right way for a blind person to do things This is safe This isn't safe Watching that guy drive his bike is a fucking trip That is bizarre Right and so you watch that And it makes you just think about Human capability in a different way Well it certainly does It certainly makes you wonder Like what What else we could do You know if we could figure that out If there's a person like him that can figure out how to see things with his sound, where making echolocations, like, what other possible senses could be developed?

[1763] And to that extent, you know?

[1764] Well, in the animal kingdom, there's, like, aren't they training these German shepherds that can smell cancer?

[1765] Yeah.

[1766] Like early onset of cancer.

[1767] They're doing similar things with, you know, rats and, you know, I mean, And obviously those animals have a more developed, you know, sense in that area.

[1768] But to the extent that human beings have unlocked, you know, potential in areas that we haven't really looked at, I think it's pretty interesting.

[1769] Well, people certainly have finely developed senses.

[1770] Like certain people that play instruments have finally developed senses of sound.

[1771] Somaliers have a finally developed sense of taste.

[1772] Like, you ever talk to someone who's like a real wine Somalier and they can, they can drink a glass of wine and have a sip of it and tell you.

[1773] you what part of the world it came from like that's real that i mean they can sip it and tell you what part of france they're they're growing these fucking grapes yeah well there are these people with uh crazy noses that work in the perfume industry that you know are highly paid to you know decipher these accents yeah it's like something i i couldn't even relate to but i think in general you know uh need is the mother of that invention like you know somebody who's not in daniel's condition is not on their own going to develop echolocation.

[1774] Right.

[1775] You know what I mean?

[1776] It also makes you really wonder if there are fields, like we were talking about how bees can tune in to the sound that a cell phone makes and it fucks with them.

[1777] I wonder if there's anything like that that's affecting us in some sort of a strange way that we're not aware of.

[1778] Because one of the things that I'm always like really aware of when I go, if I go to the wilderness, if I go to a real wild place, is the sound of it is different than the sound of silence here.

[1779] Like, if you're in a park here and it's beautiful, it's nature, it's nice, it's relaxing, but there's a certain tone to, like, Prince of Wales Island and Alaska is a perfect example.

[1780] We were there, and we were on the top of this mountain.

[1781] We're sitting there.

[1782] I was like, do you hear that?

[1783] Like, it sounds different.

[1784] It feels different here.

[1785] It's like you're getting a signal of no signal.

[1786] There's no cell phone.

[1787] there's no radio.

[1788] You're not tuning into anything other than nature itself and it has a different tone to it than a city has.

[1789] Well, for sure.

[1790] I mean, I would say that there's, you're saying there's no signal, but I think there's probably a really powerful signal.

[1791] It's just a different signal.

[1792] Yeah, I shouldn't you say no is the wrong way to say it.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] You know, listen, everything is vibration and energy.

[1795] And, you know, if you don't think that, that, you know, that isn't real, you know, go hang out with negative people for a week and see how you start.

[1796] behaving.

[1797] So true.

[1798] You know, an environment is no different.

[1799] And we tend to believe that if we can't see something, that it's not real.

[1800] So here's, you know, Daniel who, you know, is putting out sound waves into the world and he's able to figure out what his environment is.

[1801] You can't see that.

[1802] He can't see that.

[1803] But to him, it's very real.

[1804] And, you know, we're surrounded by all kinds of crazy invisible energies and waves from cell phone towers to Wi -Fi signals and all this kind of stuff.

[1805] I mean, do we know how this is impacting us?

[1806] I know people that are super sensitive to Wi -Fi and cell phones.

[1807] Like, they get headaches and all kinds of stuff.

[1808] What is this, Jamie?

[1809] Student science experiment finds plants while grow in your Wi -Fi router?

[1810] Some ninth graders in Denmark did a test where they put what they said was, where they tested it's the same radiation of cell phone gives off, so they put some water cress, I think is what it's called, or garden cress, and six trays in one room, six trays in another with two Wi -Fi routers, and it essentially as you can see in the picture, didn't grow.

[1811] So the ones in the Wi -Fi routers is no different in the environment other than the fact that Wi -Fi routers were there?

[1812] Yeah.

[1813] Yeah, that ain't good.

[1814] That's frightening.

[1815] It is.

[1816] 12 days of growth.

[1817] It totally makes sense.

[1818] I mean, there's a signal.

[1819] If your phone can pick up that signal, there's something in the air, and that something in the air is probably disruptive to other things that are also in the air.

[1820] Yeah, that's one of the - If it's fucking up the bees, what's it doing to your brain?

[1821] Exactly, right?

[1822] It feels different, man. When you go to a place with no cell phone signal, it literally feels different.

[1823] And it's so rare that we do that.

[1824] So rare.

[1825] Yeah, but it's not just the cell phone signal.

[1826] I mean, it's all kinds of things.

[1827] Mm -hmm.

[1828] Yeah, people give off a certain signal, too.

[1829] You know, people want to think that that's hippie and woo.

[1830] woo but man when you're around really negative people who's oh gotta get away from this person and it's not just you got to get away from them because they say certain things like they give off a vibe you know that that's like that's a hippie thing to say the vibes guys give me a bad vibe man but I think it's real I think there there are certain real you walk into a room and you're like well there's a heavy energy and you know there's something weird doesn't feel right to me you know I got you get you get like anxious and you got leave yeah everybody's had that experience well that's why nobody wants to buy a house where someone was killed in it right right i mean the house is awesome you find out there was like a double homicide there you're like fuck this place have you ever been up in um uh towards see me um that like dry lake bed in chatsworth yes what's that canyon uh called right there that's creepy um Topo?

[1831] No, what is it?

[1832] No, no, no, no. I don't know.

[1833] You know what I'm talking about, though?

[1834] Like, I've ridden my, I ride my bike all, you know, I can do a lot of training around here, and I've ridden up that canyon.

[1835] It's a great climb, but, like, there's something weird.

[1836] You know, you can feel like a weird energy, and it turns out that, you know, right?

[1837] Yeah, yeah, yeah, Box Canyon.

[1838] And, like, what's that?

[1839] The Manson family.

[1840] Yeah, there was, like, the Mansons were back there.

[1841] And also, there are, I think it's Boeing is back there, defense contractors, where they were doing.

[1842] like nuclear testing in the ground which is why that's a dry lake bet and there's still some people that will tell you that they're you know it's like it's not so safe there they they did some shit out there you know well they definitely did some shit there not only that there was some in in see me there were some water well test that they did that found traces of rocket fuel in the water well and there's a cleanup that's going on up there right now is it really yeah Santa Susanna pass right people are worried about that cleanup because what they're worried about is that if they start digging and cleaning up that the the dust is going to get into the air and it's going to blow through the valley and whatever trace elements of that rocket fuel apparently there was a lot of disasters up there they did a lot of shit down there in the 50s and the 60s a lot of like early testing on stuff yeah they had like some sort of a nuclear thing there as well I mean apparently there was a nuclear incidence much worse than three mile worse than three mile island really and In 1959, they had something worse than 3 Mile Island.

[1843] Huh.

[1844] In LA.

[1845] I read a study on it, though, and one of the things that said to study, like the half -life of the type of radiation that they had is very short -lived.

[1846] So it's not something that, like, lingers in an area.

[1847] The real concern that the, apparently, according to what I read, that the sober environmentalists are concerned with is the rocket fuel that's leaked into the ground and gotten into the well water into that area.

[1848] That's the real concern.

[1849] Is that why the lake bed is dry?

[1850] I don't know.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] I have no idea why the lake bed is dry.

[1853] Interesting.

[1854] I knew a dude who lived near a golf course, and the pesticides from the golf course leaked into the well, and he got cancer.

[1855] His neighbor got cancer.

[1856] Kids in his neighbor, like, all throughout their neighborhood, people got cancer.

[1857] And they got cancer because of the pesticides.

[1858] Like, they all got a very specific type of bone cancer.

[1859] Scary shit.

[1860] Like, he doesn't have a femur.

[1861] One of his femurs is, like, a metal rye.

[1862] that they replaced his femur with because he had cancer that's crazy yeah and it's from pesticides i hope there was a big class action yeah i don't know i don't know what what the fuck went down but you know bone cancer from a golf course fuck you know imagine what a rocket facility they're dumping what kind of shit they're dumping into that fucking ground yeah no kidding right i mean you know our world is getting more and more toxic right all these things we have to worry about Think about, you know, you just look on the back of, you know, the average package food that you pick up at the grocery store and all the ingredients in it and like, you know, who knows what all that stuff is, whether it's safe.

[1863] And we're entrusting regulatory bodies to make these decisions for us, right?

[1864] How about medication?

[1865] Yeah, of course, right.

[1866] All the new medications are constantly coming out, side effects?

[1867] Well, I mean, the commercials are just comedic, you know, like literally way more, you know, disclosures about side effects than actual product information.

[1868] Yeah, we played one for acne medicine the other day.

[1869] That was hilarious.

[1870] Because there was this like suicidal ideation.

[1871] Yeah, oh, not just suicide.

[1872] They were talking about bloody diarrhea.

[1873] They had these really pretty girls, and they were walking down the street.

[1874] They were bopping.

[1875] One of the girls in that commercial, the red -headed girl, contacted me on Twitter.

[1876] They had no idea what the fuck they were selling.

[1877] You know, they were just trying to be pretty.

[1878] You know, they're not talking in the commercial.

[1879] But they're bopping down the street to that Farrell song, Happy.

[1880] And they have, like, beautiful skin and beautiful hair.

[1881] perfect bone structure and they literally like bopping as they're walking like they're in some like happy music video and then as they're doing that the they start reading the laundry list of possible potential side effects that are fatal bloody diarrhea stomach cramps all these different things and then they're very specific which could be fatal just because you're getting zits and again like you're just kicking back on the couch watching this i mean we're we've signed up for this i mean the the orwellian dystopia is like like weirder than you could have ever imagined right and and again what you were talking about earlier is you're using a medication to deal with an issue that if you take a holistic approach what's causing you to have acne right what is causing your skin to break out in some sort of a horrible way that you need this fucking bloody diarrhea inducing medication to combat it yeah i mean at some point you know the side effects far outweigh you know the condition that you're trying to treat and there's i would say there's it's to bloody diarrhea that kills you there's there isn't even a single thought put into the cause like why don't we talk about what might be leading to this and maybe some choices that you could make that could alleviate or prevent this now just take this well you can't make any money with those choices enjoy your bloody diarrhea there's only one way to make the money the way to you make the money is you got to you got to you got to sell the stuff yeah you don't You don't make money by getting people.

[1882] You can, you can write a book, you know.

[1883] Book will make some money.

[1884] It's not going to make his money.

[1885] Money is acutane or something like that.

[1886] I know.

[1887] The broccoli growers need to unite.

[1888] Yeah, imagine if there was like a plant that cured zits, just one plant.

[1889] Boy, would they make that plant illegal quick?

[1890] approaching on Pfizer's profits or something.

[1891] Yeah.

[1892] What is that stuff, the benz -oil peroxide, the stuff, all that money?

[1893] Oh, yeah.

[1894] All that does is just C -10.

[1895] Drys your fucking skin out.

[1896] That's what it does.

[1897] All the puscus gets dried out.

[1898] Your skin feels like shit.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] I mean, look, you know, Western medicine is fantastic if you have, you know, an acute disorder.

[1901] I'm not like, you know, against Western medicine or pharmaceuticals when appropriate.

[1902] I just think that, you know, we're too quick to take them to, you know, deal with things that might be better addressed in other ways.

[1903] I agree.

[1904] And it's also as why does it have to be.

[1905] to be one or the other.

[1906] You know, why does it have to be pharmaceutical drugs are evil or they're great?

[1907] No, it's like sometimes they're great and sometimes they're evil.

[1908] And, you know, the problem is profit.

[1909] Once profit gets in the way, or profit gets into the mix, that becomes a sole thing you're chasing.

[1910] It's not like, let's make sure that what we're doing is the most beneficial to society and to human beings possible.

[1911] No, let's make sure we make a fuckload of money, the most money we could possibly make because getting something passed by the FDA is a huge process.

[1912] It costs millions and millions of dollars.

[1913] So by the time you actually do get a product to market, you have to protect that product.

[1914] You have to protect that money.

[1915] It's all about money, money and profit.

[1916] The best thing to do is just be proactive enough about your health so that you can do whatever's under your control to prevent you from getting any kind of, you know, acute disease.

[1917] Not to say that it doesn't happen because, of course it does.

[1918] But, you know, I think there's lots of things that could be more deeply explored.

[1919] than, you know, our culture really is, you know, sort of permissible to in kind of our, you know, what we accept as mainstream or not.

[1920] Like, I started recently going to acupuncture, which I'd never done before.

[1921] Do you think it was bullshit before?

[1922] Yeah, I've done it.

[1923] No, I didn't think it was bullshit.

[1924] I mean, you know, I'm a pretty rational guy, you know, so the idea of sticking, you know, sort of like the idea of meridians and sticking needles into my forehead and all, you know, I was like, I didn't really, you know, I wasn't.

[1925] An immediate, you know, somebody who's going to immediately jump on that bandwagon, but I know a lot of people who have benefited from it.

[1926] And I was having some things that I wanted address, like particularly sleep, like I've been challenged by sleep lately.

[1927] And so I went to see my friend who's a Chinese medicine doctor, and he started doing it on me. And it was really helpful.

[1928] Yeah?

[1929] It was really helpful.

[1930] It's so interesting, the idea of, like, balancing energy systems and, you know, kind of how it works.

[1931] I mean, it's so ornate.

[1932] And this, you know, my friend who's, he's studying Chinese medicine, and he's still kind of in his residency.

[1933] So he's working underneath, like this Chinese dude who's been practicing this forever.

[1934] And they come in and the guy, like literally this, this Chinese medicine doctor, the only thing he wants to do is take my pulse on both wrists.

[1935] And he takes it with his thumb in a couple different places.

[1936] And apparently his touch is so finely attuned that he can tell all kinds.

[1937] kinds of things about like where you're at based upon the pressure of your pulse and you know the frequency and the tempo and all these sorts of things so he wants to do that and then he wants to look at uh your tongue and he can tell by looking at your tongue like all sorts of crazy shit about where you're at do you believe it's super interesting do you believe it or do you believe in the possible placebo effect i think the placebo effect is powerful you know i'm i'm into like trying anything you know why not right like you know contempt prior to investigation That's a good way to get hoodwinked?

[1938] Yeah, something's going to happen.

[1939] Well, I mean, I think...

[1940] But is that better than saying I'm not going to explore that?

[1941] Because I think it's BS without having any direct experience with it.

[1942] No, but, I mean, it's nice to have some sort of proof or something, some sort of information.

[1943] How do you prove?

[1944] I mean, I think that, you know...

[1945] You run some tests.

[1946] Some tests on what?

[1947] Like, so, for example...

[1948] How the guy proved that he can actually do that?

[1949] Well, I mean, all I can tell you is that I was having issues with sleep and...

[1950] relaxation and this seemed to benefit and alleviate my problem to some extent.

[1951] Right.

[1952] Is that placebo?

[1953] Is that the herbs that he prescribed me?

[1954] Is that the acupuncture?

[1955] It certainly could be those things because you've got to think about like sleep, oftentimes is psychological.

[1956] Oftentimes sleep is a matter of your ability to relax and we've all been in that situation before when you know you have to be at work and five hours and if I go to sleep right now, I can get four hours sleep and you look at that clock and for whatever reason you're stuck in that thing because you know that you know that.

[1957] that you have to go to sleep right this moment and the pressure of that keeps you awake even if you're tired.

[1958] If you take action to try to alleviate that by acupuncture or whatever it is, just the mere act of taking action will shift your focus into a cure.

[1959] And you can oftentimes start thinking that whatever this placebo effect is is real.

[1960] I'm not doubting that this guy has a real app, a possible gift or whatever it is, but wouldn't it be nice if we just can prove it?

[1961] Like, wouldn't you want to prove that?

[1962] Wouldn't you want to just work with a bunch of people and find out, oh, look, you know, he's right.

[1963] This guy does have a gallbladder issue, or he's right.

[1964] This guy does.

[1965] I just met a lot of fuckers.

[1966] Yeah, or doing your TV show, yeah.

[1967] Zone healers and all these crap.

[1968] You're becoming much more cynical about this kind of stuff.

[1969] Even before that, there was a guy that was working with all these MMA guys that I know, and it was a zone healer.

[1970] And he, like, would press the back of your head and tell you from the spots that he was pressing what was wrong with you.

[1971] And but it was bullshit like he he would like press harder here does that hurt when I do that like yeah because you're pressing harder stupid What do I think I'm dumb and like we had this conversation?

[1972] I'm like how was it how exactly is this working?

[1973] And he was like well your body's ability to heal itself is dependent upon freeing your energy and is how does that work?

[1974] How does that work?

[1975] How does that work?

[1976] And after badgering him with a bunch of different questions he essentially admitted it was all placebo effect.

[1977] I was like Jesus fucking Christ and he was charging like a hundred sixty bucks to get adjusted and he would touch your head was he was this point?

[1978] Was he was this problem?

[1979] part of your show or is this is your personal dude that I knew that was in the mixed martial arts world who was dealing with all these different fighters and jiu -jitsu guys that had you know back injuries and neck and he's a good chiropractor but this zone healing thing as he was getting into it the more I would like listen to it I was like okay what what you're telling me you could touch the back of someone's head and press spots and tell if they have a thyroid condition the fuck out of here that's not true that's just not true and he kind of admitted it wasn't true he kind of admitted that it wasn't true he kind of admitted that it Ultimately, what he's doing is, if you believe in what he's doing, it will fix what you have that's wrong with you.

[1980] Because ultimately, there's another great radio lab podcast on placebo effect, and there was one of them where they were talking about this guy, they hypnotized this kid who is this insane wart problem, skin warts.

[1981] Like, you've ever seen people that have warts all over their skin where it becomes incurable by medication?

[1982] and they convinced this kid that they had hypnotized him and that it was going to go away and it went away on his arm.

[1983] His arm was like completely free of warts, which just never happens when someone reaches such an acute level of infection like this kid had.

[1984] And so in a sense, it is real.

[1985] In a sense, it's not hooey.

[1986] As long as you're gullible, as long as you're willing to wholeheartedly jump in and believe it.

[1987] And I think that might be what's going on with acupuncture.

[1988] That might be what's going on with a lot of, you know, quote unquote Chinese medicine or Eastern medicine.

[1989] I think if you believe that they have found you a cure, your body starts producing whatever it actually needs to fix whatever ailment you have and thus it becomes actually effective.

[1990] So the method is not correct.

[1991] The method is a trick, but that trick is effective.

[1992] And that effective trick does convince your brain to fix whatever the problem is, and it's really baffling.

[1993] And it only works if you're not a discerning critical person, because if you're a discerning person who's skeptical, it's not going to work, because then you're going to hyperanalyze whatever it is or the potential possibilities of whatever it is, and it just won't work, which is weird.

[1994] There's no shortage of snake oil salesman pitching all kinds of crazy healing technology.

[1995] You know, no doubt.

[1996] But I think that in fairness, you know, acupuncture and traditions of Chinese medicine, these go back, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of years.

[1997] So does witchcraft?

[1998] I think there, well.

[1999] So does slavery.

[2000] Yeah, but people are not going to see witchcraft doctors in West L .A. Well, they would.

[2001] Believe me. So I think that there is.

[2002] I think that the history and the, you know, the sort of traditions behind it, there is, there is, there is merit there.

[2003] Is there, though?

[2004] But what scientifically?

[2005] I don't know.

[2006] I mean, I'm the wrong guy to ask about that, I think.

[2007] But if you're the wrong guy to ask about that, you're probably the wrong guy to talk about it, though, right?

[2008] Yeah, probably.

[2009] Yeah.

[2010] But I think that it's a, I mean, listen, you know, I just know from my friend who's been studying this.

[2011] I mean, he's been in school, like, for crazy long periods of time.

[2012] But do you say school?

[2013] Do you do air quotes?

[2014] No, I think it's, you know, it's essentially like medical school.

[2015] It's nothing like medical school.

[2016] How about that?

[2017] You're sticking needles of people and lighten little incense.

[2018] But in terms of, like, studying physiology and studying chemistry and all that kinds of things.

[2019] but it's like on energy meridians and chakras and all that jazz right i mean isn't that like what it's kind of based on there's some aspects of that sure but there's a lot of herbal medicine i think too you know for whatever reason i thought you said urban medicine no you know herbal or the study of yeah study of herbs right i mean there's there's certainly some herbs that have medicinal values one of my favorite herbs has massive amounts of medicinal values what would that be oregano marijuana but I just think that the sticking the needles in you it's probably more that you're doing something you're doing something to deal with it and then doing something your body reacts you know the weirdest thing about drugs isn't that kind of half of what like sort of psychotherapy is to just the willingness to show up for it is you know to walk through the door and to engage somebody else is almost you know no doubt half the battle Yeah, no doubt.

[2020] There's definitely merit to that.

[2021] I mean, and also, like I said, like the idea of any, you know, fill in the blank, whenever type of modality, any type of therapy that's actually effective, even though it doesn't have any real scientific basis to it, the effect is still real.

[2022] You still get a benefit from it, like this zone healing shit.

[2023] Like if you believe in it, it will affect you, which is kind of fucking crazy.

[2024] It's kind of crazy that in some ways there's merit to it.

[2025] Well, I mean, let's just talk about meditation and mindfulness practices, right?

[2026] So if you want to apply your sort of, you know, analytical perspective to that, you can draw the same conclusions.

[2027] Really?

[2028] I could tell you, well, I mean, listen, anybody who is a consistent, who has a consistent meditation practice will tell you that, you know, it improves their life.

[2029] Right, but do you know that?

[2030] So is that a placebo?

[2031] No. Like, is there a provable, you know, thing that, you know, sort of could you apply that same?

[2032] You know, litmus test to that because this is another sort of non -Western, you know, approach to, you know, being healthier.

[2033] But there's been a lot of studies done on meditation.

[2034] I'm sure there's been a lot of studies done on the effectiveness of mindfulness and the actual effect on the mind.

[2035] But it's an ethereal thing, right?

[2036] Yes.

[2037] But it's not lying to you.

[2038] It's not saying that this frog potion that I give you is going to cure your cancer.

[2039] your body cures the cancer.

[2040] There's a certain aspect of meditation that's undeniably beneficial.

[2041] But that aspect of it has really been scientifically analyzed.

[2042] They've done all these fMRI scans on people that are Buddhist monks that have spent years and years meditation.

[2043] They've done scans on people that were in deep REM sleep and different stages of the mind.

[2044] I mean, there's just a lot of scientific work that's been done on, you know, what we call meditation, achieving certain brain waves, achieving certain states, those aren't fake.

[2045] And in a sense, placebo effect isn't fake either, right?

[2046] Because every drug that exists exists because there's a receptor for it in the human mind.

[2047] The reason why those drugs are effective is because the mind knows how to actually produce that effect in some sort of limited quantity on its own.

[2048] That's one of the reasons why placebo effects work.

[2049] that's the reason why we have opiate receptors and cannabinoid receptors and all these different things and processes that the mind can engage in with or without medication that's why those medications have an effect on the body so in that sense placebos if you believe in them work there really is something there isn't it even more than that though like the placebo effect works even when you know it's a placebo sometimes right sometimes but not as much Yeah, there was, yeah.

[2050] Yeah, there was.

[2051] And that's, I think, what we're talking about, just doing something.

[2052] The act of doing something to deal with it makes you focus on whatever that issue is.

[2053] You know, I mean, how many issues that people have health -wise are just due to a complete lack of awareness of their physical body, just stumbling through life on this drunken momentum of coffee and donuts and stress and cigarettes and traffic and pollution and stress.

[2054] and cigarettes and duck coffee, and don't, bum, ba, bum, bum, bum, bum, and then just the mere act of taking the time to reassess, like, what it means to be a person, to just stop and pause and give thought to your day -to -day existence might be enough to reset a lot of the processes that are in place.

[2055] Yeah, I mean, it's been huge in my life.

[2056] I mean, it's so counterintuitive.

[2057] Like, I would rather go out and do a four -hour run.

[2058] sit down for 20 minutes in the morning before I leave the house and engage in that practice.

[2059] And, you know, over the last six or eight months, I've really kind of dedicated myself to it.

[2060] In a, you know, by prioritizing it.

[2061] And it's really, it has been great.

[2062] What do you do?

[2063] How do you do it?

[2064] You know, I've played around with so many different techniques over the years.

[2065] And, you know, you were talking about momentum earlier, right?

[2066] Like, I've never been able to, like, hit momentum with it.

[2067] Like, I'll do it for a couple days, this version.

[2068] version and I could never find a way to really stick with it and I downloaded the Headspace app which is an iPhone app it's got guided meditation programs on it and started by this dude Andy Puddicom who have had on my podcast recently because I became so fascinated with this guy and they're very easy to follow and I put it like down in the dock you know like the bottom menu of my iPhone so I see it in the morning morning.

[2069] And it's super simple app and you just open it up and it's got a whole series of programs that you can do.

[2070] And I just put the earbuds in and he just kind of talks you through it.

[2071] So he takes the thinking out of it and it just makes it easy.

[2072] And I've been able, just something about the ease of that, I guess.

[2073] I've been able to kind of just do it and create momentum around it.

[2074] And like anything else, once you have momentum and once you start to see the benefits of it, then you're more, you know, enthusiastic about pursuing it further.

[2075] And it's been cool.

[2076] And this guy's, he's really, he's really, he's He's a cool dude.

[2077] He was like British dude, and he was in college, dropped out of college.

[2078] Andy Puttacombe, P -U -D -D -D -I -C -O -M -B -E.

[2079] He has a great TED Talk, by the way, but he grew up in London and dropped out of college and went to Nepal and started studying Buddhist meditation and became a Buddhist monk.

[2080] And he lived basically in relative seclusion for like 10 years as like a Buddhist monk, practicing meditation.

[2081] And then he had this kind of postmodern Siddhartha moment where he realized, like, you know, I need to go back to the West.

[2082] He had this calling to come back and be a teacher.

[2083] And he started this company Headspace that's become huge.

[2084] They've got like over a million subscribers on this app.

[2085] He's developed this huge business around it.

[2086] And he's very accessible.

[2087] Like he's friendly and engaging and very modern.

[2088] And, you know, he's sort of like, where does it live?

[2089] He lives here in Venice now.

[2090] He moved from London.

[2091] He lives here in Venice.

[2092] It's a cool dude.

[2093] Yeah, there he is.

[2094] His TED, and then he, right before he, once he decided he wasn't going to be a monk anymore, and before he kind of returned West, he studied circus arts at the Moscow, like, college of circus and then went to a concert.

[2095] Yeah, like he became like, face painting?

[2096] No, like the, like Cirque de Soleil type stuff.

[2097] So he's got like this crazy skill set.

[2098] And during his TED talk, he's like juggling the whole time.

[2099] Really?

[2100] He's cool, dude.

[2101] What benefits have you found from this meditation?

[2102] The biggest thing that I found is that I'm able to navigate stressful situations much more gracefully.

[2103] I'm far less reactive to people.

[2104] I'm able to kind of calmly take information out, engage it, and then respond more mindfully.

[2105] And I'm able to, you know, I've got a lot of stuff going on right now.

[2106] It's like, you know, it's just, and to be able to kind of not get anxious over that and just be able to say, okay, you know, focus on one thing at a time and not.

[2107] get worked up about the smaller stuff and just ultimately much more productive and constructive in my interactions with other people, focused when I'm working, present with my wife and my kids and calmer.

[2108] And that's impacted my sleep as well.

[2109] It's been cool.

[2110] I mean, it's been, you know, I think the benefits have exceeded what I expected.

[2111] I don't know how, you know, I didn't expect it to be any crazy difference, but it's been really great.

[2112] And it's sort of like, it's powerful too to be able to kind of stand in your space and not get rattled by things like that's a pretty potent sort of skill to develop like just imagine yourself you know you're at work your boss is coming at you he accuses you of unfairly of something and you know what do you're like your buttons are push like you're on autopilot you react in a certain way but to be able to like reprogram yourself and go oh i have a choice here you know my brain is saying this but you know you know you know I don't have to engage in that pattern.

[2113] I can actually tell a different story and react in a different way.

[2114] I think that's a pretty powerful life skill that's worth developing.

[2115] Yeah, no doubt, no doubt.

[2116] That's very cool.

[2117] I'm going to look into that.

[2118] I'm definitely going to download that app and check out him.

[2119] That's fascinating stuff.

[2120] Yeah, it's good stuff.

[2121] Do you ever fuck around with a sensory deprivation tank?

[2122] I've been wanting to do that for so long.

[2123] I want to go to the float lab in Venice.

[2124] I've got a friend who's got a tank.

[2125] I know you're big into that.

[2126] I know that I would really dig it.

[2127] Yeah, I have a tank.

[2128] I have a tank in the basement.

[2129] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[2130] So, you know, what are the, you probably talked about this a ton on your show already, but, like, what, you know, if you could, like, encapsulate the benefits of that.

[2131] Removes the mind from the body, the influence of the body, and all the stimuli of the world erodes.

[2132] It evaporates, rather.

[2133] It just, it's the mind untethered from the body in a very weird way.

[2134] And the way I always describe it is if we were having this conversation, but right next door, so there are people screaming at the top of their lungs would be very distracting.

[2135] We would want to go, let's go talk over here.

[2136] And that screaming is information.

[2137] It's stimuli.

[2138] It's stimulus.

[2139] You're constantly getting it right now.

[2140] We're sitting in, even though these are very comfortable ergonomic chairs from the Ergo Depot, Capisco chairs.

[2141] Very good for your posture.

[2142] I used to fucking, these used to my back used to kill me at the end of every show.

[2143] Yeah.

[2144] But because of these chairs, it's really fun.

[2145] fantastic but it's still you're still in a chair your ass is pushing against it you feel the weight of your body you're moving around there's there's a desk in front of you we have visual cues we're hearing things we have earphones on there's all stuff that's going on constantly that we look at it as the world but really what it is is data it's data coming into your brain that your brain has to process and that data life itself is a distraction in that tank there is no data there You mean, you have a very limited amount of sensation of the fact that you're in water that will eventually go away if you stay still long enough.

[2146] The water is the same temperature as your skin, so you will get to a point where you don't feel it.

[2147] There's a thousand pounds of salt in that water, so you'll float effortlessly, and you're in total darkness.

[2148] And as long as there's no bang around the room, as long as you're in a good, silent area, you will experience quiet in a way that is, you never get.

[2149] get.

[2150] You will experience physical quiet.

[2151] There will be no input.

[2152] And the absence of that input, your brain becomes supercharged.

[2153] It makes it so much easier for me to understand influences, objectives, all the things that I have been pushing to the back of my brain, avoiding, come to light instantaneously, highlighted.

[2154] All issues become highlighted.

[2155] Any stumbling blocks, any things that you really need to address, all come to the forefront.

[2156] And the way I describe, describe it is the first 20 minutes or so seem like like a seminar on my life.

[2157] Like my life is being explained to me. Like here's, if I went to a guru that could explain to me in no uncertain terms, like someone who really knows every aspect of my life, like if you could plug a USB drive into my head into some supercomputer that can fix things, they'd go, oh, well, look at all these issues you have.

[2158] You have to get rid of this, clean out this clutter, stop doing this.

[2159] that because you don't like it.

[2160] Don't do this.

[2161] Don't hang out with this person.

[2162] Hang out with that person more.

[2163] Concentrate on more on this aspect of your life.

[2164] Just creatively, it's an unbelievable tool.

[2165] I go over jiu -jitsu techniques in the tank.

[2166] I go over transitions.

[2167] I go over stand -up comedy in there.

[2168] I go over everything in there.

[2169] Yeah, that's great.

[2170] I want to check it out.

[2171] I mean, it sounds the way that you described that is very similar to the experiences that I have when I'm in long distance running and training.

[2172] I'm sure.

[2173] It's that.

[2174] It's that.

[2175] But, you know, it's different because your heart's beating and it's kind of an active meditation version of that.

[2176] But, you know, it's so powerful.

[2177] You know, and the more that I learn about this world of mindfulness, it's just, it's untapped reservoirs of, you know, personal potential.

[2178] Exactly.

[2179] And, you know, again, it goes back to, you know, Western culture priorities.

[2180] Like, this is not, you know, this is, that's, you know, the float lab, like your tank, that's not a mainstream idea.

[2181] you know what I mean It's becoming more so But yeah But I mean to look The typical American Right you know what I mean It's kind of a foreign idea But this idea that You know Your thinking mind is Is distinct from your higher consciousness And to the extent that you Have control And you can harness your thinking mind For your benefit And you're able to You know silence the idle negative chatter You know most people Like you said You know it's coffee You know Donuts whatever There is a looping You know And my mind loops as much as the next person.

[2182] And generally, it's not very kind things that are looping.

[2183] You know, self -defeatist ideas, negative thoughts.

[2184] Oh, my God, I'm going to do Joe Rogan's podcast.

[2185] What if the Desquad Army gangs up on me?

[2186] You know, what's going to happen?

[2187] You know, like, whatever it is, you know what I mean?

[2188] Like, and meditation allows you to understand that you don't have to engage in that and gives you a toolbox to say, let me tell a different story.

[2189] I don't have to entertain that story, that story that I've been listening to my entire life that's led me down a certain path in my life and helped sort of forge a certain trajectory.

[2190] What if I tell a new story?

[2191] And let's put that story together and see where that leads.

[2192] Like, could there be anything more powerful than that?

[2193] Very few things.

[2194] Acting on those positive thoughts.

[2195] Right.

[2196] That's just as powerful, if not more.

[2197] That's it.

[2198] Yeah, and uninstalling those buttons that cause you to react, and create, you know, negative consequences for you.

[2199] That's a good way to end this podcast, Rich Roll.

[2200] Yeah.

[2201] That was three hours of awesome.

[2202] Was it?

[2203] Yeah.

[2204] We just got it already.

[2205] Thanks, dude.

[2206] Bam.

[2207] It's done.

[2208] Thank you.

[2209] Awesome, man. Your podcast available on iTunes.

[2210] What is the name of it?

[2211] How do people get it?

[2212] The Rich Roll podcast.

[2213] Perfect name.

[2214] Absolutely.

[2215] No confusion.

[2216] Please do.

[2217] Pitch my book, yeah.

[2218] Plant Power Way.

[2219] Out this week.

[2220] Oh, is it out this week?

[2221] Oh, is it out this week.

[2222] A book and Lifestyle Guide.

[2223] Oh, excellent.

[2224] I got a couple copies for you guys.

[2225] That's right, all right, man. It's awesome.

[2226] Thank you very much.

[2227] Awesome.

[2228] Thanks for having me, dude.

[2229] Anytime, man. We're local.

[2230] So let's do this more often.

[2231] Not once every two years or something.

[2232] What was the last time we did it?

[2233] I'm down, man. I'd love to have you on my show, too.

[2234] I would love to.

[2235] I'm excited that you have a show, too.

[2236] You're a really interesting and fun guy.

[2237] Yeah, man. Thank you.

[2238] Thank you very much.

[2239] Rich Roll, ladies gentleman, you can find him on Twitter.

[2240] On Twitter, richroll .com.

[2241] Richroll .com.

[2242] And check out his podcast.

[2243] Check out his book.

[2244] The Plant Power Way.

[2245] Available right now, you fucks.

[2246] Go get it.

[2247] Peace.

[2248] Thank you, man. Yay.