S4 E3: A Constant Evolvement of Power

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of Histerical Early and Ad -Free.

[10] on Wondry Plus.

[11] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that could be triggering to some.

[12] Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast.

[13] I am not a therapist or a doctor.

[14] All resources, books, and sources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes.

[15] If you or someone you love is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 -7233.

[16] If you or someone you love is struggling with a suicidal crisis or emotional distress, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 24 -7 at 1 -800 -273 -8255.

[17] Some of today's episode involves suicidal ideation or thoughts of suicide.

[18] Please take care when listening.

[19] Thank you.

[20] I am so freaking pumped because this week I get to feature our, well, technically second because Sarah and Alyssa, if you didn't hear, did a little acapella cover of our theme song on our birthday episode.

[21] But today is our first official listener cover.

[22] It's by Cat White.

[23] She's incredible.

[24] She's a children's music artist.

[25] Her album in the Eye of the Owl is out now.

[26] So after you hear it, you're going to want to know how you can hear more of her amazing music.

[27] To do that, you're going to head to catwhitemusic .com.

[28] And of course, I'll link it in the episode notes.

[29] Thank you so much, Kat, for not only being a listener, but for taking part in this really fun project.

[30] A quick note, the formatting of season four is slightly different due to the unique nature of the story, interviews, and historical significance of the People's Temple and the murders at Jonestown.

[31] In order to shed more light on the Bogue family story as a whole, narration based on and including content from books, essays, media coverage, and FBI documentation will be included to further round out the story, provide background information, and explain the context of some interviews.

[32] Additionally, it's sometimes easier for trauma survivors to write about specific parts of their story, and that is okay.

[33] I respect that not all survivors want to verbally record all aspects of their experience, and the last thing I ever want to do is ret traumatize anyone.

[34] It is truly an honor and a privilege to get to tell these stories.

[35] P .S. You may notice a tapping sound in some of today's recordings.

[36] Not to worry, the bog men just like to emphasize when they talk.

[37] Thank you, friends.

[38] It's often difficult for those who have not been under the influence of mind control to understand how everyday people can find themselves in destructive cults.

[39] On the topic of cult psychology, Stephen Hassan, author of Combating Cult Mind Control, writes, since there are so many different types of mind control cults, It would be impossible to describe the beliefs and practices of each one, or even each type.

[40] The best way to learn about a specific group is to locate a former member or a former member's written or video account.

[41] X members are a great source of information.

[42] Still, certain themes of cult membership are more or less universal.

[43] Here are nine of the most common ones.

[44] The doctrine is reality.

[45] There is no room in a mind -control.

[46] environment for regarding the group's beliefs as mere theory or as a way to interpret or seek reality.

[47] The doctrine is reality.

[48] Some groups go so far as to teach that the entire material world is an illusion.

[49] Therefore, all thinking, desires, and action, except of course those prescribed by the cult, do not really exist.

[50] Doctrine is to be accepted, not understood.

[51] Therefore, the doctrine must be vague and global, yet also symmetrical enough to appear consistent.

[52] Its power comes from its assertion that it is the one and only truth, and that it encompasses everything.

[53] Reality is black and white, good versus evil.

[54] Even the most complex cult doctrines ultimately reduce reality into two basic poles.

[55] Black versus white, good versus evil, spiritual world versus physical world, us versus them.

[56] Devils vary from group to group.

[57] They can be political or economic institutions such as communism, socialism or capitalism, mental health professionals, entities such as Satan, spirits, or aliens, or just cruel laws of nature.

[58] Devils are certain to take on bodies of parents, friends, ex -members, reporters, and anyone else who criticizes the group.

[59] Some groups cultivate a psychic persona, telling members that spirit beings are constantly observing them and even taking possession of them whenever they feel or think in non -cult ways.

[60] Elitist mentality.

[61] Members are made to feel part of an elite corp of humankind.

[62] This feeling of being special or participating in the most important acts in human history with a vanguard of committed believers is a strong emotional glue that keeps people sacrificing and working hard.

[63] As a community, cult members feel they have been chosen by God, history, fate, or some other supernatural force to lead humanity out of darkness into a new age of enlightenment.

[64] Colt members have a great sense not only of mission, but also for their special place in history.

[65] They believe they will be recognized for their greatness for generations to come.

[66] The group will over the individual will.

[67] In destructive cults, the self must submit to group policy and the leader's commands.

[68] The whole purpose or group purpose must be the focus.

[69] In any group that qualifies as a destructive cult, thinking of oneself or for oneself is looked at as wrong.

[70] The group comes first.

[71] Absolute obedience to superiors is one of the most universal themes in cults.

[72] Individuality is bad.

[73] Conformity is good.

[74] A cult member's entire sense of reality becomes externally referenced.

[75] They learn to ignore their own inner self and try.

[76] trust the external authority figure.

[77] They learn to look to others for direction and meaning.

[78] Leaders of different cults have come up with strikingly similar tactics for fostering dependency.

[79] They transfer members frequently to new and strange locations, switch their work duties, promote them, and then demote them on whims, all to keep them dependent and off balance.

[80] Strict obedience, modeling the leader.

[81] A new member is often indoctrinated and groomed to give up old thought and behaviors by being paired with an older colt member who serves as a model for the new member to imitate.

[82] In Bible groups, this is sometimes referred to as shepherding or discipling.

[83] The newcomer is urged to be this other person.

[84] Mid -level leaders are themselves urged to act like their superiors.

[85] The cult leader at the top is, of course, the ultimate model.

[86] What the outsider is seeing is the personality of the leader passed down through several layers of modeling.

[87] happiness through good performance.

[88] One of the most attractive qualities of cult life is the sense of community it fosters.

[89] The love seems to be unconditional and unlimited at first, and new members are swept away by a honeymoon of praise and attention.

[90] But after a few months, as the person becomes more mesh, the flattery and attention are turned away toward new recruits.

[91] Most members continue to believe that the group has the highest level of love on earth.

[92] However, the cult member learned that in the group, love is not unconditional, but depends on good performance.

[93] However, experientially, the cult member learns that in the group, love is not unconditional, but depends on good performance.

[94] Behaviors are controlled through rewards and punishments.

[95] Competitions are used to inspire and shame members into being more productive.

[96] If things aren't going well, if there's poor recruitment or unfavorable media coverage or defections, it is always individual members' faults and their ration of, quote, happiness will be withheld until the problem is corrected.

[97] In some groups, people are required to confess sins in order to be granted happiness.

[98] If they can't think of any sins, they are encouraged to make some up.

[99] Many people come to believe that they really committed these made -up sins.

[100] Real friendships are a liability in cults.

[101] A cult member's emotional allegiance should be vertical, up to the leader.

[102] not horizontal toward peers.

[103] Friends are dangerous, in part because if one member leaves, they may take others with him.

[104] Of course, when anyone does leave the group, the love formally directed to them turns into anger, hatred, and ridicule.

[105] Manipulation through fear and guilt.

[106] Colt members come to live within a narrow corridor of fear, guilt, and shame.

[107] Problems are always their fault, the result of their weak faith, their last, of understanding their bad ancestors, evil spirits, and so forth.

[108] They perpetually feel guilty for not meeting standards.

[109] The leader, doctrine, and group are always right, they are wrong.

[110] They also come to believe that evil is out to get them.

[111] Fobias are the ultimate fear weapon of mind control.

[112] Shame and guilt are used daily through a variety of methods, including holding up some member for an outstanding accomplishment or by finding problems in the group and blaming members for causing them.

[113] Fear is a major motivator.

[114] Each group has its devil lurking around every corner, waiting for members so it can tempt and seduce them to kill them or drive them insane.

[115] The more vivid and tangible the devil, the more intense cohesiveness it fosters.

[116] Emotional highs and lows.

[117] Life in a cult can be like a roller coaster.

[118] Members swing between the extreme happiness of experiencing the truth with an insider elite and the crushing weight of guilt, fear, and shame.

[119] Problems are always due to their inadequacies, not the groups.

[120] They perpetually feel guilty for failing to meet objectives or not conforming to standards.

[121] If they raise objections, members are likely to get the silent treatment or be transferred to another part of the group.

[122] These extremes take a heavy toll on a person's ability.

[123] ability to function.

[124] When members are in a high state, they can convert their zeal into great productivity and persuasiveness, but when they crash, they can become completely dysfunctional.

[125] Changes in time orientation.

[126] An interesting dynamic of cults is that they tend to change people's relationship to their past, present, and future.

[127] Colt members tend to look back at their previous life with a distorted memory that colors everything dark.

[128] Even the most positive memories are skewed toward the bad.

[129] The cult member's sense of the present is manipulated too.

[130] They feel a great sense of urgency about the tasks at hand.

[131] Many groups teach that the apocalypse is just around the corner.

[132] Some say they are preventing the apocalypse and others merely believe that they will survive it.

[133] When you are kept extremely busy on critical projects all of the time for days, weeks, or months, everything becomes blurred.

[134] In most groups, the leader claims to control, or at least have unique knowledge of the future.

[135] He knows how to paint visions of future heaven and hell that will move members in the direction he desires.

[136] In a destructive cult, there is never a legitimate reason for leaving.

[137] Unlike healthy organizations, which recognize a person's inherent right to choose to move on, mind control groups make it very clear that there is no legitimate way to leave.

[138] Members are told that the only reason that people leave are weakness, insanity, temptation, brainwashing, pride, sin, and so on.

[139] Members are thoroughly indoctrinated with a belief that if they ever do leave, terrible consequences will befall them, their family, and or humanity.

[140] Although cult members will often say, show me a better way and I'll quit, they are not allowed the time or given the mental tools to balance the evidence for themselves.

[141] They are locked in a psychological prison.

[142] violent colts may take this to an extreme to justify the killing of former members and reinforce the notion that people have to stay they must work fight and follow orders or else they will die not just symbolically people who do actually leave colts are extremely courageous and they can have a very important role they can provide inspiration to those who are under mind control especially if former members are happy, accomplished, and open about their cult environment.

[143] These people, by speaking out about their experience, are a potent and dangerous force to cult leaders and mind controllers everywhere.

[144] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is, something was wrong.

[145] Know me, you don't know me well at all.

[146] Know me, but you don't know me. You know me, but you don't know me. Well, you don't know me, but you don't know me. She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[147] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[148] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[149] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[150] What happens next next?

[151] depends on who you ask.

[152] Was it a crime of passion?

[153] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[154] This was clearly an intentional act.

[155] And his cause of death was blood force trauma with hypothermia.

[156] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[157] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[158] Everyone had an opinion.

[159] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous.

[160] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[161] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[162] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[163] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[164] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[165] I'm Sachi Cole.

[166] And I'm Sarah Haggy, and we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once a facade falls away.

[167] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[168] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together, while stealing from them behind their backs.

[169] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judici, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[170] Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[171] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[172] A fellow in San Francisco, he got a hold of a bunch of this government foods, and they moved them up to Redwood Valley and then somehow the leak got out and I was driving a truck loaded with this food and all to take it to a house and this place where we was going to hide her and the county woman somewhere pulled us over and I had to accept that it was my job right you know it was my thing separate from the group right you could be held responsible I was held responsible and so so then they gave him a choice faith prosecution or because of your your carpenter skills and your overall skills you can go to south america and help start building that place for newcomers and at some point you'll see your kids again it's your choice well so what was the real choice be in prison for many many years or go down there where at least you still had some level of freedom and the hope that you would see your kids again.

[173] He was blackmailed.

[174] He was blackmailed into moot.

[175] Like they're just straight up.

[176] We will, we're going to make your life miserable if you leave.

[177] Well, considering that the district attorney of Minnesota was one of the church members, as was many of the sheriff's department, police department.

[178] Oh yeah.

[179] Wow.

[180] And when I say many, I don't mean most.

[181] I'm just saying many.

[182] But the most powerful one was the district attorney.

[183] And then you have a sheriff, you know, some of the deputy sheriffs going there too.

[184] Well, guess what?

[185] They got the whole thing laid out.

[186] You're going to prison.

[187] And with that mind control, I mean, people are already so easy to influence at that point probably.

[188] Yes.

[189] And, you know, segregated from the rest of the world in their life, that it's hard for them to see a lot of options beyond the blackmail in front of them.

[190] Absolutely.

[191] And let's not forget, too, that was still during the time of social unrest.

[192] Maybe, like I said, many people back then joined just for some normalcy in their life.

[193] in terms of things were the same.

[194] And yes, we were a very reactionist type organization also.

[195] You know, we'd go out and do protest.

[196] And a lot of those based in civil rights protests?

[197] Yes, civil rights protests.

[198] And also we would go around on our trips and everything else, picking up garbage and paper every place we went and doing clean, doing good works, provide some other services to the Redwood Valley area that wouldn't otherwise be available to them.

[199] everything from attorney to to medical care all a mechanism to draw more people in of course right and it's like gives you in this invisibility cloak look how great we are look look what we're doing for your community it's the same tactics abusers use they're not abusive all the time there's those times where they're like look at this fabulous impact we're making not only to those in it but also to the city yes if people see these this group of amazing people cleaning up trash on the side of the road they're going to say wow look at that those people oh yeah you know they might be really, really good people.

[200] Oh, definitely.

[201] Or some department within the city that maybe the city was short -funded on.

[202] I don't know if this happened, but I'm just using it as an example.

[203] Okay, was short -funded on something and they need a bunch of their vehicles worked on or something.

[204] So the churches say, yeah, you know what?

[205] We have an auto repair place right over here that services are, vehicles bring them on in.

[206] We'll just take care of them.

[207] Don't worry about it.

[208] Now you have government agencies backing you up and supporting you.

[209] No, they're a fantastic group.

[210] Look what they did for us.

[211] again it was a buildup on power and they were always out catering to elected officials trying to draw them in i could i tell you um most of the civil activists of that era i have met i've personally met person eras them speak they came to the people's temple people's temple supported them so you know the angela davis is the the the hughy newtons dennis banks i mean the list just goes on and on and then as things developed they um started anymore towards the political leaders you know the georgia moscones um all of that i mean we got pictures with with jim jones and jerry brown walking down the street him meeting with with rosling carter you know he becomes appointed of of the one of the housing authorities i think the oakland housing authority jones does either oakland or san francisco that's all political favor why because they started using the church as a political machine too going out and pushing for their votes to get people to vote for this particular person.

[212] Everybody in the church would vote for the same person.

[213] They were told to.

[214] So, yes, they became a political machine also.

[215] This was a constant evolvement of power.

[216] And that's why certain things would happen.

[217] Many of the ones who were supposed to be digging into this, you know, when reports of abuse are occurring and everything else, just turned a blind eye because there was just so much political capital built within that Temple.

[218] After the fruit truck incident, Jim was told he had two options.

[219] Go to jail or go to Guyana with a small group of other church members begin building what would later become Jonestown, the Colts compound in South America.

[220] In Julius Shear's book, A Thousand Lives, she writes of the conversation between Jones and Jim on his moving to South America with the other settlers.

[221] He knew that the appointment would make Edith proud.

[222] Here was the man she admired most in the world asking her a husband.

[223] husband for a crucial task.

[224] He knew he was expected to assent, but he also felt oddly honored that Jones asked him.

[225] Don't worry, Jim, Jones assured him, as soon as you get settled in, I'll send Edith and the kids down to you.

[226] Jim Bogue cast his hopes and dreams on the project.

[227] It represented for him, a clean start for his family, a place where he'd regain the rightful place in his household, a place where his children would look up to him, and his wife would cherish him again.

[228] When he first arrived at the jungle plot, he thought of his wife and kids with each stroke of his cutlass, each chop, of his garden hoe.

[229] They were his motivation as he labored in the searing equatorial heat and brushed away malarial mosquitoes.

[230] He was preparing a new home for his family.

[231] He imagined giving them a tour, his kids bubbling with excitement.

[232] Edith's heart defrosted at last as she saw the utopia he'd built.

[233] Twenty years after they met, he was still inspired by schoolgirl smile, so full of hidden Edens.

[234] He wanted her to feel the callous pads of his hands, his bronzed, and muscled arms.

[235] They were proof of his love.

[236] He built Jonestown's first structure, a dock for offloading cargo from trucks, fashioning the floor with wooden poles and the walls from tree bark.

[237] It later became the banana shed.

[238] He laid the foundation for the kitchen using a garden hose as a level.

[239] He fixed the caterpillar and the backhoe when they broke and worked came to a standstill.

[240] He eventually dug three wells for the settlement, providing the entire community with fresh water for drinking and bathing.

[241] The greatest challenge for Jim Bog, who was quickly named farm manager, was the soil.

[242] The rainforest dirt surprised him.

[243] It was completely different than the abundant, soft loam in California.

[244] The topsoil was acidic and only a few inches thick.

[245] Underneath lay impenetrable red clay.

[246] If he scooped up a handful in his fist, squeezed it and let it dry, it turned into a rock -hard ball.

[247] The United Nations classified the jungle soil as non -productive.

[248] Nevertheless, he threw himself at the challenge.

[249] He spent all day, every day, learning the rhythms of tropical agriculture from the natives, resorting to hand gestures when their broken English failed.

[250] Despite all of his hard work, Jim Bogue remained the low man on the totem pole.

[251] Everyone knew that he'd tried to leave the church, and the community had a long and unforgiving memory.

[252] Jones certainly never let anyone forget his trespass.

[253] As soon as he assembled the shortwave radio and got it working, for example, the two shets banned him from using it, saying the order came from Jones himself.

[254] In the evenings, he smoldered as he heard the two shets laughing with their children or folks back home.

[255] To appease him, they allowed him to.

[256] short calls back to California.

[257] Both left him disheartened.

[258] The connection was poor, Edith sounded aloof, and the Touchette sat at his elbow, listening to make sure he didn't say anything negative about the project.

[259] Tom and Jim Bogg both told me repeatedly about Tom's uncanny ability to find trouble to get into.

[260] He was born with a strong will, and hating the church and its abusive environment only made living within its confines even more torturous to his adventurous his spirit.

[261] The first time Tom tried to run away from the people's temple, he was nine.

[262] The second time, he was around 12.

[263] He was on another one of the church's infamous bus trips when he tried to run away for the second time.

[264] All those times, I've received punishments and everything else growing up.

[265] All that really did was develop a part of me that paid dividends later in life.

[266] You know, little that I know that, in a way, it was training me to be ready to run.

[267] I only truly had one friend.

[268] Just one.

[269] That's it.

[270] Sure, I knew them all, but I really only had one friend.

[271] And I didn't meet him, I guess, until the age of 12, 12, 13.

[272] In 2013, Tom wrote an essay about his friendship with Brian, which is published on the alternative considerations of Jonestown and the People's Temple website, which I will link in the episode, notes.

[273] In part, he reflected, Brian and I met in San Francisco.

[274] He was already staying within the church on Geary Street.

[275] I had been moved there because I kept running away, and at the young age of 13, I already hated the church.

[276] The church elders decided I needed a more controlled environment.

[277] They had actually taken me from that family.

[278] After, you know, finally got the point of her, she was like, you know, even, you know, even I can't break him.

[279] If she didn't say what she was doing trying, He just won't listen to me, right?

[280] Yeah, I mean, a rubber hose was a normal event with her.

[281] And she was an old Southern lady, and she's strong and believed in, you don't spare the whip.

[282] So anyway, they ended up moving me into the actual San Francisco Temple building at 15.

[283] I was shown my new accommodations, which was a small upstairs room in the back of the church.

[284] I was introduced to a red -headed kid about the same age as myself.

[285] I was told he was to be my roommate.

[286] His name was Brian Davis.

[287] We hit it off right from the beginning.

[288] We both enjoyed the TV series Gallery and Twilight Zone, our favorites.

[289] And we both played musical instruments.

[290] And we were both to start the ninth grade in the fall at Presidio High School.

[291] Since we lived out of district for Presidio, we had to be dropped off at this older lady's house across the street from the school.

[292] We learned to make lie soap there, and we were told, if anyone asked, to say that this is where we lived.

[293] Behind the school was a steep hill.

[294] After school, while we waited for a ride to show up, we would ride our skateboards down this hill.

[295] Could Brian ride a skateboard?

[296] His skateboard was a bonsai, a top -of -the -line board, and he showed no fear.

[297] A lot of tricks you see today he was doing back then.

[298] Eventually our ride would show up and back to the church we went.

[299] It didn't take long for both of us to discover how much disdain we had for the church and its rules.

[300] He often spoke of how much he wanted to go back home to his mothers, but his dad wouldn't let him.

[301] That saddened him greatly.

[302] During the year, Brian and I lived at the church, we formed a very strong bond.

[303] For a place to try and get two people to conform to their mentality, they could not have put two more strong -minded, non -conformist people together than the two of us.

[304] Before long, we were sneaking out of the church through a side door and a hole in the fence.

[305] Avoiding security became a new game for us.

[306] The freedom we felt once outside the fence was exhilarating.

[307] We just enjoyed it like nothing else.

[308] We would explore all over San Francisco, ride the buses by sneaking in the back exit door.

[309] Rarely would the bus driver spot us.

[310] After several hours, we would have to face the fact that we had to go back to the church.

[311] And this was the tricky part.

[312] We had to sneak back in, go and find an out -of -the -way spot to hide in, but not so hidden that we couldn't be found.

[313] And wait.

[314] Sooner or later someone would find us, all pissed off, asking where we had been.

[315] Right here, we would tell them.

[316] We didn't know anyone was looking for us.

[317] This was a lot of fun for us.

[318] We fooled the adults and we were free for a little while.

[319] One time when we were out, we tried smoking weed for the first time.

[320] We didn't like the effect it had and, wouldn't you know it, we were caught sneaking back in.

[321] For our discipline, we had to do exercises for an hour, and then we had to pick lint and whatever little pieces of whatever you find in the carpet for the rest of the night until morning and then go to school.

[322] When they caught us, me and me and my buddy Brian, one of the disciplines is we had to sit there and pick lint out of the main area rug all night on our hands and knees.

[323] Yeah, lint, any little pieces of paper, anything, all night long.

[324] Another time we were caught smoking cigarettes.

[325] For this, we had to chip up ancient linoleum from a floor on our hands and knees all night.

[326] It made us miss the carpet.

[327] We had pimples on our knees by morning from the glue and dirt forced into our skin.

[328] It took a couple of weeks to heal.

[329] We had to scrape linoleum off a floor with a putty knife on our hands and knees.

[330] Where other people had like those shovel scraper things to pop it up?

[331] Nope, not us.

[332] By next morning, our knees were infected and everything else.

[333] glue and everything, getting shoved into our knees.

[334] Yeah, it became quite a mess.

[335] It took a while to get it to heal up.

[336] Still, we were not deterred from our ways.

[337] On the contrary, all it did was strengthen a resolve in our feeling for the church.

[338] We started planning to run away.

[339] Brian, to his mother's house and me, well, I don't know where to go.

[340] To my uncle and aunt's house, I guess.

[341] I would have to check with them.

[342] School was out now, and now, at the age of 14, we had more spares.

[343] time to plan our escape.

[344] Brian needed money for a bus ticket to his mothers, but we had none.

[345] On Saturdays, we would go out and beg for money for the church, and that gave us our idea.

[346] Each Saturday when we went out, we would take $2 each from the can and hide it for Brian's ticket.

[347] It took months.

[348] Finally, the day came that we had enough money.

[349] The following week, we decided to make a run for it.

[350] The plan was, I would go with Brian to get his bus ticket, and then we would go to my uncle's house and talk to them, and then Brian would go catch Greyhound.

[351] The plan was flawless for two 14 -year -olds.

[352] If it didn't work, we decided we'd just run somewhere, didn't care where, just gone.

[353] The day came for the big escape.

[354] We slipped out through the side door of the church and went for the hole in the fence.

[355] But what?

[356] They had fixed the hole.

[357] This should have been our first warning that things weren't going to go well.

[358] Brian came up with a distraction for the guard at the back gate.

[359] He was good at coming up with distractions.

[360] He was just so damn smart.

[361] And he told me to go hide next to a car by the gate.

[362] I did.

[363] Then I heard this bang and blood -curdling scream coming from Brian.

[364] I remember thinking, oh my God, what happened to him?

[365] The guard goes running in that direction.

[366] I'm about to do the same when Brian comes running around the corner of the car I'm hiding behind saying, let's go.

[367] We peel out through the gate and around the corner.

[368] We start laughing with excitement.

[369] We made it.

[370] Never to return.

[371] We walked from Geary Street to the Greyhound bus station on mission, bought Brian his ticket, and then headed to my uncle's house at 22nd and Folsom Street.

[372] We told my uncle and aunt everything which occurred to us.

[373] They were shocked and more than willing to help.

[374] I couldn't believe my ears when they said I could live with them.

[375] All they had to do was contact my mother and work out the details.

[376] My father had been shipped off to Jonestown two years earlier for trying to leave the church.

[377] And they would drop off Brian at a bus station.

[378] great.

[379] We are really getting out and away from the church.

[380] They called my mother on the phone, telling her what had happened and what they were willing to do.

[381] My mother asked me if this is what I wanted.

[382] I couldn't believe my ears.

[383] I had a choice?

[384] I told her, yes, it's what I wanted.

[385] She told me she would get my clothes and bring them over.

[386] She spoke to my aunt in confirmation and hung up.

[387] I remember I almost cried.

[388] I was so happy.

[389] Our plan was working.

[390] Brian and I were both very excited.

[391] we were on our way.

[392] About an hour later, my mother shows up, followed by two of the church goons.

[393] My gut clenches, and Brian runs out the back of my uncle's house, as we both knew what this meant.

[394] I was held isolated in the church for about two weeks, and then I was sent to Jonestown, escorted by Jim Jones himself.

[395] Some ways I think I might have been very dumb as a kid, you know, because all these things that, you know, all this mischief I'd get into and the disciplines that I received, I never really learned a lesson from it or maybe just because it became such a norm.

[396] And the connection between bad and discipline didn't matter because actually, because even when you weren't in trouble, people watched you so close all the time.

[397] It was just, it was just another step in the process.

[398] Of course, by then, some other people already died who left.

[399] Next time on Something was Wrong.

[400] Something Was Wrong.

[401] If you'd like to help support the growth of Something Was Wrong, you can help by leaving a five -star review on iTunes, sharing the podcast on social media, signing up to support on patreon .com, supporting our sponsors, or simply telling your friends, or your family, or your teacher, or your therapist, librarian, male person, Valentine, football coach, barista, bartender, barber, Girl Scout troop leader, your life coach, your sponsor, You get the point.

[402] You think you know me, but you don't know me well.

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[405] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.

[406] I'm Dan Tibersky.

[407] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[408] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[409] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[410] She's like, I can't.

[411] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[412] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[413] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[414] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[415] Well, you were holding something back intentionally.

[416] Yeah, yeah.

[417] Well, yeah.

[418] No, it's hysteria.

[419] It's all in your head.

[420] It's not physical.

[421] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[422] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[423] Or is it something else entirely?

[424] Something's wrong here.

[425] Something's not right.

[426] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[427] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, hysterical.

[428] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[429] You can binge all episodes of Histerical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[430] Thank you.