Build a Life You’re Not Exhausted By

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] I am your host, Jade Warshaw.

[2] I am joined by your co -host, George Campbell.

[3] We're hosting together, so give us a call.

[4] The number is 3 ,8 -825 -5 -2 -25.

[5] We'll take calls all afternoon about your life and your money.

[6] Let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Brian from Des Moines, Iowa.

[7] What's going on, Brian?

[8] Hi.

[9] Yeah, I'd emailed you guys a little while.

[10] ago, three, four weeks ago, about, I lost a bunch of money in a cryptocurrency romance scam.

[11] And my current state is I've had to, as part of my divorce decree, I had to pay my wife property equalization payment of almost $98 ,000, which I was able to do last week.

[12] I ended up having to get three loans to cover it, and now I am saddled with almost $98 ,000.

[13] and loan debt.

[14] Got it.

[15] Okay.

[16] Are these personal loans?

[17] How did you get the debt?

[18] One's a personal loan.

[19] One is an unsecured loan, and one is a loan against my pickup.

[20] Oh, boy.

[21] Wow.

[22] Okay.

[23] So tell us more about your financial situation.

[24] What are you bringing home?

[25] What's your income?

[26] Is there anybody?

[27] Tell us more.

[28] I make about 80.

[29] 80 ,000 a year.

[30] My take home is, I think it's 2011 every, every, it's biweekly.

[31] Do it for a random month?

[32] I just put the math on, yeah.

[33] So help us understand how the crypto romance scam plays into all of this.

[34] Well, my intention for email on you guys was just to find out, is there any resources for scam victims?

[35] I mean, is there any, you know, support groups, you know, where you can talk with other victims and, you know, to share your feelings and what have you.

[36] Is there any financial help?

[37] Well, so how long ago did it happen?

[38] Let's kind of get our bearings around it.

[39] How long ago was it?

[40] It took place over between September of 2022 and it concluded, you know, late January last year, 2023.

[41] And how much, how much money was involved?

[42] Over 230 ,000.

[43] Whoa.

[44] Oh my goodness.

[45] And I'm guessing this is over a period of time where it was just a little more and a little more?

[46] Yes.

[47] Wow, gracious.

[48] So you're out the $230 ,000 plus the $98 ,000 for your ex -wife?

[49] Yeah.

[50] I mean, you know, I started off with a couple hundred bucks investing into what turned out to be a fake site.

[51] I mean, it was just flat out stolen.

[52] Oh, my goodness.

[53] You know, and then I, you know, I went from 200 to 1 ,000 to 3, and then, you know, I just kept putting more in there.

[54] Yeah.

[55] And I pulled that out of my retirement funds and 401Ks and what have you.

[56] And so...

[57] You just drained your entire life to keep up this House of Cards.

[58] Yeah.

[59] And so obviously it's like if you, the normal things to do, right, you notify your bank, you file a complaint with FTC.

[60] When you did all those things, what came of that?

[61] I didn't do those things when I realized that it was a scam the first thing I did was I contacted my divorce attorney and he reached out to his network of attorneys and see if there was somebody that knew anything about crypto investing and recovery and what have you and they did find a guy in Des Moines that traced my funds all of it ended up over instead of going to this crypto site it ended up at an exchange in Singapore.

[62] Okay.

[63] And along with a lot of other victims' funds, there was, he said it was over a million dollars in this account at the time when he traced it.

[64] So he put together all the information.

[65] So it's all well documented.

[66] Yeah, yeah.

[67] And he actually filed a federal lawsuit against, we don't know who was involved with this, but there was a lawsuit in process, you know, against the unknown scammers.

[68] the first one of it's kind of in Iowa, is what he told me. So what are the next, what's he telling you are the next steps?

[69] Basically, just to wait and be patient, the process of serving documents and waiting for responses is ongoing.

[70] He thinks it'll conclude some time late this summer, early fall, you know, probably around Labor Day, I'm guessing.

[71] So you feel like legally there's kind of a handle on it, and so now you're really just looking for emotional support?

[72] Is that?

[73] Yeah, I think.

[74] He's got a handle on it legally.

[75] But yeah, I mean, just the whole process is there, I was mainly inquiring, is there any organizations out there?

[76] I know there are fun to recovery places.

[77] There's some that are scams that will take advantage of you.

[78] There's some other ones that actually do try to help victims.

[79] I see one on here.

[80] I see one on here by FINRA.

[81] It's just, let's see, it's fight cybercrime .org.

[82] You can go on there.

[83] And there's, it literally is a romance scam recovery.

[84] group.

[85] So that's literally what it's for.

[86] So you could check into that.

[87] And again, that's fight cybercrime .org.

[88] We don't endorse them or support them.

[89] It was just, I just kind of looked it up real quick.

[90] So I don't know anything about the group.

[91] It's just something that popped up.

[92] So to answer your question, and there's a couple others out here that I can see.

[93] So to answer your question, they are out there.

[94] There's another one called, if you go to againstcams .org, Society of Citizens Against Relationship Scams, Scars is the acronym.

[95] You can look that one up.

[96] Again, we don't have affiliation, we're just Googling like the rest of you.

[97] But I think we have to just start to rebuild, Brian, and go, let's pretend we never get this money back because the chances of you getting this money back, slim to none, and it hurts.

[98] And you're going to have to let go of the shame and guilt and the fact that your life, you know, has imploded over the last few years.

[99] That's a very, very difficult thing.

[100] I would highly suggest you get one -on -one counseling and therapy to deal with this regardless of what happens with the groups.

[101] And we would recommend better help for that.

[102] That's a great online one.

[103] would endorse a recommendation.

[104] I'm already involved with better help for this right now.

[105] Okay.

[106] And on the financial side, I wouldn't try to, you know, no one's going to just go give you $100 ,000 because you were a victim here.

[107] So you're going to have to figure out how am I going to get rid of this debt as fast as possible?

[108] How do I get my income up in order to knock this out as fast as possible?

[109] I'm guessing this $100 ,000 isn't the only debt you have?

[110] Currently, yeah, currently it is.

[111] I have no credit card debt because I use debit cards.

[112] Okay.

[113] Was the pickup paid off and you took a loan against it?

[114] No, I had a balance of about $5 ,700 on it, and I just had to borrow more against it to cover that equalization payment.

[115] So I already know you guys are going to tell me to sell the truck, get out from under the one loan, and drive something cheap for a while I work on the next one.

[116] Yeah.

[117] How much is borrowed against the truck specifically?

[118] 13 -5, and I think it's valued about 17 -something.

[119] Okay.

[120] So you're underwater by a little bit?

[121] No, it's valued more than what I owe on it.

[122] Because you owe the 5 ,700 still on top of the 13 -5, or is that total?

[123] 13 -5 is total.

[124] Okay, great.

[125] So that'll give you a little bit chunk of change to get something to beat her car to drive around.

[126] That'll lower your debt by a little bit.

[127] And then just focus on attacking these debts.

[128] I mean, I think you can get out of this within my guess is two and a half years, max, with some hustle.

[129] And then just rebuild and get the help you need.

[130] This is a hard lesson to learn.

[131] I appreciate you sharing with everyone, with all of America, to warn them that this stuff is real.

[132] Never send anyone Bitcoin, whether you know them or not.

[133] Never, never, never.

[134] These games are real.

[135] It hurts my heart.

[136] My heart goes out to him.

[137] That's so much money.

[138] That was no doubt his retirement.

[139] I mean, he was in, gosh, almost $400 ,000 on this.

[140] That's painful, painful stuff.

[141] This is the Ramsey show.

[142] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[143] Hey, good folks.

[144] Back to school madness is upon us.

[145] It's hitting us right now.

[146] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[147] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[148] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[149] Here's what I've learned.

[150] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[151] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[152] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[153] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[154] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

[155] BetterHelp is 100 % online therapy staffed with licensed therapists.

[156] It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.

[157] And therapy can help you learn positive.

[158] of coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos.

[159] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[160] Never skip therapy day.

[161] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[162] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloni today for 10 % off your first month.

[163] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[164] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[165] I'm Jade Worshaw, your host.

[166] You are joined by George Campbell, your other host, author of Breaking Free from Broke, best -selling author.

[167] Love that, George.

[168] All right, I'm excited.

[169] It's not very often that I get to announce the 20th anniversary edition of the Total Money Makeover.

[170] It's now available, guys.

[171] Let me tell you something.

[172] This is the book that changed my life.

[173] It has changed millions of people's lives.

[174] Over 7 million sold.

[175] the total money makeover, I'm telling you, it's the simplest, most straightforward and proven plan to change your finances.

[176] You can solve your hardest problem with the least complicated money book you'll ever read.

[177] I love it.

[178] I love that they updated the font, but not Dave's face.

[179] So he still looks 20 years younger on that cover.

[180] It's like a time machine.

[181] That was a nice editorial choice by Dave.

[182] You go, nah, keep the old photo.

[183] I look great.

[184] But it really is.

[185] It's what we all recognize.

[186] And it's not the same, it's the same heart, but we've updated an expanded the stats in there, the advice on mortgages, car loans, investing for retirement, paying for college, buy now, pay later, all of these more recent traps that have popped up over 20 years.

[187] And here's the best part that I'm excited about.

[188] What's that?

[189] Dave re -recorded the audio book.

[190] Love that.

[191] So for the first time ever, it's crispier, you know, he's a little older, a little more rugged, a little more wise.

[192] Yeah, a little rasp in the voice.

[193] That's right.

[194] I like that.

[195] All right.

[196] Plus every book includes three months of every dollar premium for free.

[197] The best budgeting app ever also included.

[198] I love that.

[199] New users only.

[200] Good call out here.

[201] Yeah.

[202] Yeah.

[203] Of course.

[204] If you're already on there, you don't get to stack it.

[205] So if you're a new user to every dollar, take advantage of that.

[206] But I'm excited about this.

[207] I'm excited to get my hands on that audio book and follow along in the book.

[208] That's my favorite way to read.

[209] I love it.

[210] I'll definitely listen to it again.

[211] It's a banger.

[212] It never gets old.

[213] All right.

[214] So go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash store and get the total money makeover 20th anniversary edition so that you can become one of the millions who have said goodbye to debt and built well 20 years worth of success and stories cheering you on.

[215] I wish I read the book when it came out.

[216] Like, I'm sad that I only, I learned about the book way later.

[217] What, nine years later, I finally learned about it and read it.

[218] Listen, I never actually bought the total money makeover.

[219] I bought the workbook.

[220] The total money makeover workbook.

[221] And it's like you can fill in all the things.

[222] Listen, when you go through, when you're indebting you go through when you put in your income and then all the debt, not going to lie, you feel a little bit sad.

[223] It gets real.

[224] The hope is on the other side.

[225] Amen.

[226] There you have it.

[227] Let's go straight to the phone lines.

[228] We've got Aaron in Toledo, Ohio.

[229] What's going on, Aaron?

[230] Hey, good afternoon.

[231] Thank you for taking my call.

[232] For sure.

[233] How can I hope?

[234] My wife and I are in a position to purchase a investment home property at 25 % of a home market value.

[235] Our question is, what would be the best loan option to purchase this investment property?

[236] We do have the cash in hand to pay this 25%, but that would totally.

[237] fully liquidate our funds in the bank account and put us at net zero in checking and savings account.

[238] How urgent does this purchase?

[239] I'm sorry, what's that?

[240] How urgent does this purchase?

[241] Like, if you don't do it today, is it over?

[242] Can this be done six months from now?

[243] It's going to be probably, I haven't done it in the next probably one to three months.

[244] Is your personal residence paid off?

[245] Yes.

[246] Awesome.

[247] So you're saying in order to do this, you'd be liquidating all of your three to six months.

[248] months of expenses.

[249] Correct.

[250] Plus some.

[251] What's the number on this?

[252] What's this place going to cost?

[253] $55 ,000.

[254] Why are they selling at 25 % of the value?

[255] My wife and I acquire 75 % of the home based on a family's death, where we're purchasing the 25 % from another family member.

[256] Oh, you're buying the house for, correct.

[257] That makes more sense.

[258] So you're not really getting it at 25 % of the value.

[259] still, you're putting in the extra 25 to own it free and clear.

[260] Correct.

[261] Cool.

[262] How about this?

[263] Because there's now urgency on this, I would love for you guys to maintain three months of expenses, then make the purchase once you have the money beyond that.

[264] How long would it take you to save up another basically three months to put with this is cash?

[265] Quickly.

[266] I mean, we have no car payments, no debt, no home payment.

[267] So, for us have to three, six months of bills paid up.

[268] have had that done pretty quickly in six to eight weeks.

[269] I love that.

[270] So that's the plan.

[271] Is there a reason that wouldn't work?

[272] I would talk to the family and say, hey, here's the plan.

[273] Three months from 90 days from now, we're ready to do this deal.

[274] We'll have the cash at closing.

[275] It's going to make things simpler.

[276] It's not going to put you guys backwards into debt.

[277] Because what happens is you take on this loan and then all of a sudden you have this pile of money in the bank and you go, ooh, what else could we do with this money?

[278] And so that's what worries me about taking on the debt even for a short time.

[279] So I would try to avoid that at all costs.

[280] And it sounds like you can.

[281] They've got the income where they can do that.

[282] And so you're logical.

[283] I love it.

[284] I'm happy for them.

[285] I was like, are they about to get scammed?

[286] Who's selling 25 % of market value?

[287] That makes more sense.

[288] It does make more sense.

[289] Love that.

[290] All right.

[291] Well, let's go to Will, who's in Birmingham, Alabama.

[292] Will, how can we help you out?

[293] Hey, guys.

[294] I just want to say thanks so much for taking my call.

[295] I've listened for a long time, and I'm glad to be here.

[296] We're glad you're here.

[297] How can we help?

[298] um so you know i have a million questions but obviously i can just ask one my main question is i have my wife and i have 111 000 in student loans um but 75 000 of that is high interest and it's 8 % and 14 and a half percent and i was wondering yeah i know it's uh sorry dude yeah you're not kidding I found out, right after I told her I wanted to marry her, she didn't know.

[299] Her parents took it out, and, yeah, that was, it's been a huge trial, but...

[300] Are these parent plus loans?

[301] Are these in her name, and she had terrible credit?

[302] Like, how do you even get a 14 % student loan?

[303] Well, I mean, as y 'all know, they like to screw, you know, anyone they can.

[304] So what it was, at the time, her mom literally Googled and just picked the first student loan she found.

[305] a private loan.

[306] Yeah, so it's private.

[307] And so she borrowed more than she needed to to pay for housing, food.

[308] Covered her lifestyle.

[309] I did the same thing.

[310] Here's the good news.

[311] The good news is with private loans, you do have a little bit more leeway and wiggle room because they're not, it's not the federal government, right?

[312] So if you come in here and you try to make a deal with them, many times they have the ability to make deals on payments.

[313] So what my husband and I did, because the last bit of debt that we paid off was all private loans.

[314] And so what we did is we stacked up a good percentage.

[315] We stacked up about 60 % of what the real value was and we offered it in cash and they took it.

[316] There's an idea.

[317] Okay, well, I guess then my question is so, man, we got married in January and, you know, your boy saved up a lot of money and we not, all in all, both of our debts was 1081 ,000.

[318] Okay.

[319] What was the 81 ,000?

[320] 11.

[321] Oh, so you knocked it down already.

[322] Yeah, I mean, we've knocked 60K down and we've only been married for five months.

[323] And not only that, I've got $37 ,000 in stock.

[324] And half of it's short term, half of it's long term, but had a ton of gains.

[325] My dad wants me to keep it, and I'm tempted to sell it.

[326] But then, you know, we won't really have a nest egg.

[327] You know, I'm preaching the choir here with you guys.

[328] Yeah, but that's not your nest egg.

[329] George and I, you know, I know your dad wants you to keep it, but I can speak for George.

[330] George and I want you to sell it.

[331] Number one, that's not the place where a nest egg would lie in single stocks.

[332] So that's thing number one.

[333] And thing, too, is you need this money.

[334] You're at 8 and 14 % interest.

[335] You're losing money hand over fist.

[336] Like, you got to get something in there to knock that out, you know?

[337] I'm not worried about you getting another 37 ,000 investments one day.

[338] We'll get there.

[339] But right now we need a priority of getting.

[340] and this debt knocked out.

[341] And I'll tell you, Will, I did the same thing, not at this scale, but I had some Apple stocks from when I worked at the retail store back in my day.

[342] And I sold them, and I used it to pay down my debt.

[343] And, you know, I had people going, dude, are you serious that money could have turned into?

[344] And you can play the what -if game all day long about what your investments could be.

[345] But I'll tell you, you have a guaranteed return when you get rid of this debt and get it out of your life.

[346] That's so true.

[347] The thing to remember here is when it comes to getting out of debt.

[348] I mean, we just talked about the total money makeover.

[349] When it comes to getting out of debt, there's a way to do this, and it's walking those baby steps in order.

[350] Baby step one, you get the $1 ,000 saved.

[351] If you had money saved, you knock it down to $1 ,000 so that you can do baby step two, which is you're paying off all of your debt using the debt snowball method.

[352] It's smallest to largest guys by balance.

[353] We're not talking about the interest rate, although it could be tempting in a situation like this.

[354] You do the smallest loan first, and then you turn around and you stack back up that three to six months of savings.

[355] But here's the thing.

[356] We're not putting it in single stocks.

[357] We're not putting it in the stock market at all.

[358] We're putting it in a high -yield savings account.

[359] It's liquid.

[360] You can get to it.

[361] And it's great that right now they've got pretty high interest rates.

[362] And so that's the way this works.

[363] Those are the first three baby steps.

[364] That's your quickest, most risk -free path to debt freedom.

[365] This is The Ramsey Show.

[366] I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

[367] Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially, the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible.

[368] People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

[369] When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills?

[370] I'm going to eat next week.

[371] Yeah, in the middle of all that grief.

[372] Like, it's just, it is.

[373] It's terrible.

[374] So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

[375] Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

[376] And it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies.

[377] It doesn't cost much.

[378] You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

[379] You've got to say it out loud and you've got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place.

[380] The cost of stinking pizza.

[381] To get a free quote, call 800 -356 -42 -82.

[382] That's 800 -356 -4282 or go to zander .com.

[383] Well, what's going on, everybody?

[384] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[385] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[386] Next to me is George Camel.

[387] And if you ever come and visit us here at Franklin, Tennessee, you will come into a beautiful lobby.

[388] We will greet you with warm cookies and coffee and probably the nicest human beings you'll ever meet out there.

[389] And you'll see the debt -free stage, which is where people come from far and wide to do their debt -free scream.

[390] And that's what's going on today.

[391] Today on the debt -free scream stage, we've got Raphael and Candice.

[392] Good to have you guys here.

[393] Where are you from?

[394] Dallas, Oregon.

[395] Dallas, Oregon.

[396] Okay.

[397] There's a Dallas and Oregon.

[398] What's that next to?

[399] Salem.

[400] Okay, I know Salem.

[401] Very, very cool.

[402] And you're here to do your debt -free scream.

[403] So the people want to know how much did you pay off?

[404] We paid off $28 ,0 .3874.

[405] I like it.

[406] I like the detail.

[407] I love that.

[408] How long did it take you to pay off this debt?

[409] 49 months.

[410] 49 months.

[411] Okay, I'm tracking.

[412] And what were you earning during that period?

[413] We started out with $188 ,000, and then we're currently at $220 ,000.

[414] What do you guys do for a living?

[415] I'm in security engineering.

[416] And I'm a public school administrator.

[417] Okay.

[418] So can we ask what kind of debt this is?

[419] So this was everything.

[420] We were very normal.

[421] We had a 401k loan.

[422] We had credit cards, personal loans.

[423] A horse trailer.

[424] Okay.

[425] Which I'm guessing there's a horse involved somewhere.

[426] And a mountain of student loans.

[427] Wow.

[428] How much student loans?

[429] $200 ,000.

[430] $1 ,000.

[431] Wow, my goodness.

[432] So the question everybody wants to know is you sold the horse trailer.

[433] Did you get to keep the horse?

[434] We kept the horse trailer.

[435] We paid it off.

[436] Kept the horses.

[437] Love it.

[438] Oh, multiple horses.

[439] Yes, yes.

[440] Wow.

[441] So now the whole, is the whole farm paid off now?

[442] The mortgage is not paid off yet.

[443] That's the next to go.

[444] Correct.

[445] I love it.

[446] You got to make some serious headway in 49 months.

[447] What was life like before this?

[448] Like take us back four plus years.

[449] years ago.

[450] Yeah, we were really a little reckless with our spending.

[451] We made good money and so we continually just tried to live and spend that.

[452] We sat down one day and we were looking at our budget and Raphael said, what are we going to do about all of this debt?

[453] And I said, well, we could do that that Ramsey stuff.

[454] And he's like, what are you talking about?

[455] And I was like, oh yeah, well, I know about it, but I haven't done it.

[456] I had been listening to Dave for about 10 years, but I would actually turn off the debt -free screams because I felt like I would never - Was it too convicting?

[457] Be in that space and I would tear up and be sad.

[458] Wow.

[459] So this will never be me. Why even get my hopes up and listen to these stories?

[460] Yeah.

[461] Oh my goodness.

[462] And so to be here is just the most amazing.

[463] So, well, what change that made you go, I am going to listen to this and I am, maybe I can be that person?

[464] Having a partner and a husband on this journey with me who said, we can do this, right?

[465] We can do anything.

[466] We're amazing together.

[467] We can tackle this.

[468] And so we've, been married for four years and just started this this journey oh so you were newlyweds at the time yes and you combined all of your deaths you're like oh my gosh how are we going to live yes yeah and this was during pre -covid i was actually traveling from california so i moved up from california um and i used to travel back and forth from california to oregon every week for eight months and so all the airplane flights the lodging the food i mean my company wasn't paying for because i made the choice to move to Oregon.

[469] It wasn't like, hey, would you like to move to Oregon?

[470] So we were paying out of pocket with all this.

[471] And so I just started seeing the bills just stack up and stack up.

[472] And I didn't even finish, when she told me about the total money makeover, I didn't even finish the book.

[473] I think I got through the first chapter.

[474] And when I landed and she picked me up, I'm like, we're going to do this.

[475] You're like, we got to go.

[476] I can't take it.

[477] It's one chapter and you're like, I got it.

[478] Game on.

[479] That's right.

[480] That's right.

[481] And the first year, we were pretty davish we had a couple things still we were doing and trying to still live but kind of do the plan yeah and then we started financial peace and we were the second class in and he was like we can't be davish anymore this is it we've got to completely commit tell us what was your davish thing because everybody's everybody got there something everybody's got something so tell us what your davish uh we definitely ate out quite a bit and we would still do vacations and you know we'd set decide well it's this is enough going to the debt we're okay instead of committing and saying everything extra goes to the debt so was there a day when you were like we're going all it yes and you made what was the biggest sacrifice during that time you remember going oh that was a hard thing but it was the best thing I think for for me well during the whole baby step two period the hardest part for me is I'm not so I'm the nerd obviously but I have a free spirit in me and and it only comes out with my beautiful wife here And so there are times where I wanted to be like, sweetheart, you need new shoes or like, you need new pants or, you know, let's, let's, I just wanted to just throw things at her.

[482] But at the same time, I'm like, no, I can't because we're going to do it.

[483] Okay, all this is to go to the credit card.

[484] So you could justify in your mind because you're like, I'm being a good, I'm a hero.

[485] She needs new shoes.

[486] That's right.

[487] Or really, it was just your way of getting your inner child out to spend some more money.

[488] Yeah.

[489] You hush the inner child and you guys did some hard things for, I mean, four years is a long time for a lot of people to sacrifice.

[490] Yes.

[491] Yes, it was a long time.

[492] What was the hardest part?

[493] The horse trailer.

[494] That was the hardest thing to get rid of.

[495] Well, it was a month into when we got serious, really got serious and stopped doing Davis.

[496] It was a month into it, all of a sudden I hear that there's a horse trailer coming.

[497] There needs to be a trailer when you have horses.

[498] That's the problem with horses.

[499] They need a lot of accoutrements.

[500] That's right.

[501] Land and trailers.

[502] How much was the trailer?

[503] It was only $5 ,500 out of this big mountain.

[504] Okay.

[505] But it was already a big mountain.

[506] But it was more emotional than the financial.

[507] It's a principle of it.

[508] Another five grand we got to pay off at this horse trailer.

[509] So it took us getting on the same page together and really being committed to our goal, what we wanted to change all those behaviors and to change that pattern of how we were acting.

[510] And so what would you say to that person that was you?

[511] You know, you've got $281 ,000 of debt, 200 of it student loans.

[512] You're listening to people like yourself now on the radio going, I know they're doing it, but this is not for me. What would you say to them real quick?

[513] That it's possible.

[514] This is, it feels like a mountain when that student loan debt is so big.

[515] And you think I'm just going to have this forever.

[516] But you just start taking steps a little bit at a time.

[517] And it starts to go away.

[518] And then you build momentum and you feel this energy.

[519] And all of a sudden you believe at some point through it that it can really happen.

[520] I think it also takes love to, you know, when you, I mean, her and I used to talk about when it was the last.

[521] thing that we had was that student loan because that was the biggest.

[522] You know, just the way she would talk about it, I knew there was a little bit of guilt and shame behind it, but she would tell me how she used the money and everything.

[523] And I'm like, you know what, I would have done the same thing if I were in your shoes.

[524] But it's okay.

[525] So we are, you know, because it's our debt.

[526] Like, we're just going to get rid of it.

[527] I love it.

[528] I love the language.

[529] It's ours.

[530] Everything's ours and we.

[531] I love it, guys.

[532] All right, let's get ready to do this thing.

[533] We've got Ralph and Candice from Salem, Oregon.

[534] You guys paid off $281 ,000 in 49 months, making $188 ,000 to $220 ,000.

[535] Let's count it down.

[536] Let's hear that debt -free scream.

[537] Three, two, one, we're debt -free!

[538] That's a good one.

[539] What a sweet couple.

[540] Raphael and Candace are, they're an inspiration.

[541] And we also have a gift for them, Jade.

[542] We've got two every -dollar premium subscriptions that they can use.

[543] They can pass it on to the person who says it's not going to happen for me. Pass it on.

[544] It can happen.

[545] I love stories like this because all the time we get people who call in the show, George, and they say, you know, I'm just being buried.

[546] I don't think that I can pay off my debt.

[547] Can I really do it?

[548] Can I really do it?

[549] And this right here, you know, Raphael and Candace, they are, you know, the epitome.

[550] You can see that this is possible.

[551] Yes.

[552] And you support each other.

[553] I love how Raphael is like, I know that I'm a nerd, but there's a free spirit somewhere inside of me. And they kind of really just compliment each other.

[554] And that's the way this works.

[555] It's $200 ,000 of student loans.

[556] That's amazing.

[557] And I don't know how, I mean, they're the sweetest couple.

[558] They may have been like this from day one.

[559] But it seems like there is a connectivity that happens once you go through this process together that makes their marriage even sweeter.

[560] I feel like they're in a new newlywed phase again.

[561] Yes.

[562] In this debt freedom phase.

[563] And let me tell you guys out there, there's nothing more romantic than debt freedom.

[564] Okay.

[565] The last thing she wants is you to rack up some more debt to get her more crap.

[566] Get rid of the debt and see if that doesn't, increase the joy and love in your life.

[567] That's a fact.

[568] I love that.

[569] I love that so much.

[570] It just goes to show changing your habits, you do work to change your mind, and you can completely change your life, change your family tree.

[571] That's what they've done.

[572] There's no shortcuts.

[573] Don't tell me you can't pay off these student loans.

[574] Don't tell me it's not possible.

[575] You can tell me home.

[576] And if you're living Lovita Loka, it's time to hold your horses and make some changes before you go further into debt.

[577] Live in La Vita Loka, huh?

[578] I haven't heard that in a while.

[579] I always try to bring it back.

[580] Don't forget about Ricky.

[581] I love it.

[582] This is The Ramsey Show.

[583] So here's a quick math refresher.

[584] There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money.

[585] So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud financial system.

[586] NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform.

[587] So join the more than 37 ,000 smart businesses like Ramsey Solutions that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite.

[588] And right now you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at NetSuite .com slash Ramsey.

[589] That's netsuite .com slash Ramsey.

[590] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[591] I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by George Camel.

[592] We're taking your calls all afternoon long.

[593] We're talking about your life and your money.

[594] So be sure to give us a call.

[595] The number is Triple -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[596] Hit us up and we'll help you out.

[597] All right, let's go to Tampa, Florida.

[598] We've got Desiree on the line.

[599] What's going on, Desiree?

[600] Hey, thank you for taking my call.

[601] No problem.

[602] How can we help?

[603] Hey, so my parents recently passed away, and they left me with a house and two cars, and I don't really know what to do from here.

[604] My dad really wanted me to sell the house and have money set me up for my feet.

[605] future, but I know a lot of people at my age would kill to have a paid -off house in their name, so I was just calling for advice on what I should be next.

[606] I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

[607] Awful.

[608] How recent was this?

[609] My dad had passed away about like two weeks ago, and my mom passed away when I was younger, so it was just me and my dad for a while.

[610] Oh, I'm so sorry.

[611] Was this sudden?

[612] He had been diagnosed with cancer, so he was given about like a couple months.

[613] to live so like we knew it was coming we just didn't really know like how soon it would be and yeah so it was sudden but i had time to like process it well it's still fresh and i want you to be able to grieve and not make any big financial decisions now so we'll help you take the right next step but i want to give you permission to not do anything as well okay there's no urgency here there's nothing on fire right no you're living in the house yeah i'm living in the house So I still have to, like, pay the bills and stuff like that.

[614] And as far as, you know, settling the estate, do you have help with all of that?

[615] Did he have a will?

[616] Yeah, he had, like, a will and all that stuff.

[617] It was all left to me. There's nothing really to deal with the courts about it.

[618] I know it's going to be a little bit of paperwork, but it was pretty much clear and done that it was all for me. Okay.

[619] And there were no debts or anything like that.

[620] All of this is you will be getting all of this.

[621] He did have about 8K and credit card debt that does need to be paid off.

[622] And I was thinking about it's just paying that from my savings or selling the house and using that to help pay off the debt as well.

[623] What about the cars?

[624] What are they worth?

[625] The cars were paid off.

[626] I have a 2017 Jeep that's probably worth about like 15 to 20 now in that range.

[627] And then there's like an older model B &W that I don't think I'd get more than like three or four grand for.

[628] And you said you would, you said you might sell the house to pay off that little bit of debt.

[629] Why not one of the cars?

[630] Um, just because, um, I don't really know if at this age I could like be a homeowner.

[631] I'm only 21 and I only make about 25k a year.

[632] And I know in the area of Tampa I live in, you have like a required flood insurance and that's like a couple grand a year plus like property taxes and all that stuff.

[633] I just don't know if I'd be able to afford like living in a home at my age.

[634] Yeah.

[635] The insurance and taxes alone.

[636] Yeah.

[637] Okay.

[638] Well, what George said is true.

[639] I mean, if you have the, the money to.

[640] kind of keep things as they are.

[641] You don't have to make any decisions right away.

[642] But if you're finding that, okay, I need to start thinking about what's going to happen, who's going to take care of these taxes, who's going to take care of this insurance, that sort of thing, then at what point do you think you might be starting to feel it?

[643] I really have no idea.

[644] Maybe about like a couple months.

[645] I've already had to like start like setting up all the bills in my name and then I have to go to the DMV and get the titles transferred and all that stuff.

[646] So it would probably be like about a couple months until everything's like said and done, but I don't really know for sure exactly.

[647] Have you notified the lender that your dad has passed?

[648] I don't believe so.

[649] Okay.

[650] I would do that.

[651] And here's the, I don't want you to go rush and pay this because you may not be responsible for this.

[652] This isn't, the credit card debt is unsecured and therefore they're not going to, they're not going to liquidate your car or home in order to pay this.

[653] They'll just have to eat that cost most likely.

[654] So I would look into the laws in your state and what will be required, but I would at least notify them that he's deceased.

[655] Okay.

[656] I gotcha.

[657] Is the home paid off completely?

[658] Yeah, it's completely paid off.

[659] What does it cost per month to keep this home afloat with all the insurance, property taxes that are involved?

[660] I know the bills come out to be about like 800 a month, but I haven't really done the math on like the property tax and insurance but I know that would add about like 10 to 15k a year okay that's the math I want you to do to see if this is reasonable for you to stay because there's no reason to go out and rent for 1 ,500 bucks if keeping this house afloat and you staying there is going to be $1 ,200 a month so I would crunch the numbers on that and if it's unsustainable if it's much bigger than 25 % of your take -home pay which I personally hope your income goes up very soon because you're making about $12 an hour right now?

[661] 15, but yeah, pretty much.

[662] Okay.

[663] So if we can get your income up to 30, 40, 50, 60, now this becomes a much more reasonable expense in your life.

[664] Okay.

[665] What's the house worth if it were to sell?

[666] If it were to sell, it probably sell for about 350.

[667] I'd probably gross about like 300 after like I'm paying off everything.

[668] Okay.

[669] Was there any other accounts involved here that you were a beneficiary?

[670] of retirement or otherwise bank accounts no he no he just had debt that he had to pay off he didn't have any like money to his name and that's why i heard like it's going to get taken out of the estate for his like credit card debt so that's what i was worried about what's a situation with your personal vehicle well i was driving a car under his name and now it's like now it's mine okay so that's this yeah is that the jeep or is that the other one that's the jeep okay so you'll keep the Jeep.

[671] It's paid off.

[672] I mean, when you're ready, the other car, I'd probably go ahead and let that go because the longer it sits, it's just losing value.

[673] So I'd probably sell that one off sooner than later whenever you feel up to it and just kind of clear that out and simplify this a little bit.

[674] Now you got a house in a car that your dad left you, both paid for.

[675] Really, really great gift.

[676] Really great.

[677] Do you have any community?

[678] Do you have any other family or friends in the area?

[679] Yeah, I had friends a while, like a little bit away that were offering to move me. in for $575 a month.

[680] And I thought that was like a pretty good deal because it'd be less than my monthly expenses like owning a house.

[681] Yeah.

[682] I just know that like, you know, owning property at 21 is a pretty big deal and I would regret selling it if it wasn't the right decision.

[683] Sure, but if you sold this and you put that money, let's say in a high -yield savings account for two years to kind of just restart your life and go live with friends and have that community, I think that's well, that's money well spent to do that.

[684] And you're still going to have a giant chunk of change to go spend on a house later on when you're ready when you're in that next phase of life maybe you get married and so I don't want you to feel like this is kind of a golden handcuffs it's a huge blessing to have a paid for a house that you get to live in but I also know there's a lot of emotions attached to it yeah I don't think I mean I don't know your dad but my guess is that he wasn't thinking you're going to live in this house for the rest of your life where you have to live in this house he left it to you as a gift and you get to decide what you want to do with that I like George's idea.

[685] I think that this is a really cool gift.

[686] It allows you a certain level of freedom and you let that money grow and you'll be able to buy the home that you want that you're ready for when the time comes.

[687] And if you want to get connected with a trusted, Ramsey trusted real estate agent, you can do that at Ramsey Solutions .com.

[688] They can help you list this get top dollar for it so it'll set you up for the next house in the best way possible.

[689] But Desiree, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[690] That's not something any 21 -year -old should have to suffer through and losing both parents.

[691] I can't imagine.

[692] Did we help you out?

[693] Did we answer everything?

[694] Yeah, I really appreciate you you guys taking my call.

[695] Thank you.

[696] Absolutely.

[697] Thank you so much for the call.

[698] We're going to give to you a year of Financial Peace University to kind of give you financial literacy as you head into adulthood at 21.

[699] And there's going to be a lot of traps.

[700] And you're going to be a target because you have no debt and you got money to spend.

[701] And as you get your income up, I want to make sure that you do the right things with it to build wealth with confidence.

[702] So hang on the line.

[703] Eboo will pick up.

[704] will get you a year of Financial Peace University on us.

[705] That's great.

[706] And that includes every dollar, by the way, which is the best budgeting app out there.

[707] I love every dollar so much, I have to say.

[708] It's changed my life.

[709] It's a game.

[710] It just gives me peace to look at the numbers.

[711] So I'm not just stuck with emotions and opinions and what I think is going to happen with my money.

[712] It puts the roadmap right there in front of me. That's very good.

[713] It takes it out of your head and gets it on paper, which I love.

[714] Every dollar is the best way to make the most of your money.

[715] And you do that by creating and sticking to a monthly budget.

[716] Every dollar makes it simple to plan and track spending.

[717] You track your expenses and you can save for what matters most to you all in an easy to use app that fits into your busy lifestyle.

[718] I also love that.

[719] It fits in your pocket because it's an app on your phone.

[720] You can do the desktop version, but I love the phone.

[721] And it helps you keep a pulse on your spending and make progress on your money goals.

[722] And you can do that with every dollar.

[723] So if you don't have it, get it.

[724] You can download every dollar for free in the app store.

[725] or Google Play today.

[726] That's every dollar.

[727] All right.

[728] Thanks for hanging with us.

[729] That does it for this hour, but we'll see you next hour here on The Ramsey Show.

[730] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[731] I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by George Camel.

[732] We're taking calls all hour long about your life and your money.

[733] So if you want to speak to us, If you want our advice, you can give us a call.

[734] The number is Triple -8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -25, and we'll give you our best take.

[735] And listen, you're grown so you can take it or leave it.

[736] No one has to do what we say, George.

[737] Let's get that straight.

[738] I rarely think they actually do, Jade.

[739] But at least I sleep well at night knowing I told them exactly what I think.

[740] That is correct.

[741] Brutal honesty.

[742] We'll give you our honest opinion.

[743] And then what you do with that is up to you and...

[744] It's between you and God.

[745] It's between you and God, really.

[746] Let's go straight to the phone lines.

[747] We've got Priscilla.

[748] in Pensacola, Florida.

[749] What's going on, Priscilla?

[750] Hi, Jade and George.

[751] Thanks for taking my call.

[752] You bet.

[753] Hi.

[754] I am two weeks in, rather, to this program, and I'm a little bit older.

[755] I'm 48, my husband 55, and so we're trying to figure out after we have the $1 ,000, we're on step two.

[756] We have a lot of assets, but obviously we have a lot of debt too.

[757] So I'm trying to figure out how to death do this.

[758] So we have three homes.

[759] One is out of state.

[760] There's nine years left on the mortgage.

[761] We owe about 450 on it.

[762] It's worth about 900 ,000.

[763] It is fully rented.

[764] The rent covers the mortgage on it.

[765] So that's about 65 ,000 a year.

[766] And then we have another home that is worth about 450 to 500 ,000.

[767] And we owe 135 ,000.

[768] And we owe 135 ,000.

[769] on it.

[770] We use that one as an Airbnb, and it brings in about 50 to 55 ,000 a year.

[771] Okay.

[772] We have another property, our lake house, that actually doesn't have a mortgage on it, but it sort of does because we took out 190 ,000 on zero percent cards for 18 months.

[773] Yikes.

[774] Okay.

[775] So, um, what's it worth?

[776] And, uh, it's probably worth four and a half, like $450, something like that.

[777] Is it rented or is that a vacation property?

[778] No, we're currently living in it because we renovate our homes.

[779] And so we got to that 190 and we're like, we've done this before.

[780] Not that this is the right way to do it, but we'll get to a certain point.

[781] And then we take out 0 % cards and then we take like two years and we just pay it off.

[782] So we were like, okay, actually we're at 175.

[783] I'm being corrected.

[784] But we get to a certain point where we're like, okay, that's too much.

[785] let's let's just pay that off and then we have a three cars only one has a no on it but it's like 50 ,000 and then we have a personal loan for 20 from a family member our income is like without the rental properties it's 275 a little bit more during bonuses or whatever but just say 275 is that from Both of you?

[786] Yeah.

[787] Plus the income that we received from the Airbnb and the property that's out of state.

[788] So what I'm trying to do is, and when we pay all of this, we have, you know, extra money.

[789] It's not like when we did that every dollar budget.

[790] I mean, we have money left over, but I was just, I never paid a bill.

[791] I've been married a long time, but I never paid anything, so I had no idea.

[792] And our last kid just got married.

[793] And I'm like, well, maybe.

[794] maybe I should look at the bills and see what we have.

[795] And I was like, wow, I spend a lot of money.

[796] So really, I was just spending it.

[797] Just, you know, I never paid anything.

[798] I never, I just swiped my card and my husband paid it.

[799] So, um, but my question is, is do I just pay off the credit cards next?

[800] Or should I sell the house that's out of state?

[801] It would actually pay off everything that we own and start again.

[802] But my husband's concerned because we don't have a lot of like, in our 401K like investments, we have less than 100 ,000.

[803] And he's like that house out of state, which will be paid off in nine years.

[804] I mean, we could make $7 ,000 a month.

[805] And so since it's paying for itself, so that's what he said, we're going to listen to you guys.

[806] Just listening to you, you're all over the place.

[807] I mean, I'm exhausted.

[808] It was a lot.

[809] Priscilla, are you not exhausted?

[810] Playing the zero percent games and this is all going to work out?

[811] And moving stuff on credit cards.

[812] You've got whole mortgages on credit cards.

[813] So just let me understand the credit cards.

[814] So you've got the 190 from House number three on cards.

[815] Did I hear that right?

[816] Yeah, it's 175.

[817] 175.

[818] What else do you have?

[819] Of the house that doesn't have a mortgage on it.

[820] Okay.

[821] What else do you have on credit cards?

[822] That's it.

[823] That's it.

[824] So you've got the personal loan for 20, car loan for 50, 175 across a bunch of cars, 135 on a rental and $4 .50 on the other rental.

[825] Yes.

[826] Which house do you want to be living in?

[827] Like, are there, of these three houses, are there any that you're like, you know, this is the house that we're retiring in or is the goal to ultimately buy someplace else and live there?

[828] Yes, that's it.

[829] So where we live, we want to be, we're on a lake right now, but we'd rather be on the ocean.

[830] So our ultimate plan was just to finish this, rent it, and then move to another property.

[831] So what would it look like if, so the out of state one, I'd love to get out, I'd love to get rid of the out of state one.

[832] But if eventually you guys are going to, you're going to stay in Florida.

[833] You're just going to a different location in Florida?

[834] Yeah, probably in the same general area just on the ocean as opposed to like on a lake.

[835] And the only other thing about that other house is out of state is that the state that it's in because we don't live there charges, I think it's like 6 % sales tax as like a penalty for living out of state and owning a property and selling them that state.

[836] Well, if I'm you, I'm still getting rid of this out of state property.

[837] We never recommend out of state rentals because of the hassle factor.

[838] you don't have your eyes on them, and you wouldn't choose this place in Florida where you are now.

[839] You're not going to go, hey, what if we bought this rental way over here in this part of the country?

[840] And you need the money.

[841] I mean, what are you going to get net out of that?

[842] I just did the math here.

[843] You guys would knock out both rentals, the car loan, and the personal loan, and the credit cards.

[844] You'd knock out everything and have money left over.

[845] Yeah, I know.

[846] That's what I was trying to say, but my husband is just, I don't know.

[847] Here's what he's not thinking about.

[848] Now you have these cash flowing properties.

[849] right you have the cash flowing property that's worth 450 the Airbnb so you have 55 a year coming in from that is that after you pay the mortgage because it would it increase if we got rid of the mortgage on that yeah but not not by a lot because 135 it's the industry is so low it's only like $500 a month so it's not really anything to speak up but okay let's say one up to 60 then the lakehouse you're now going to rent out right that's paid off yeah I would rent that so that's going to cash flow you have no debt payments to make, and you're making over 300 ,000.

[850] I think we can pick up a nice little nest egg fairly quickly if we didn't have debt in our life.

[851] Agree?

[852] I agree.

[853] Imagine being able to put away 50 % of your income into investments.

[854] That's what you'll be able to do.

[855] Like if we sold that house, you would just put 50 % away.

[856] Is that what you're saying?

[857] I'm saying you could.

[858] With your budget and your income, could you live off 150 and put another 150 into investments?

[859] I think the answer is yes.

[860] You can max out your retirement accounts, put money in a brokerage, heck, you might be able to pay cash for more real estate later if you so choose.

[861] I'm just saying you're going to have way more options and you said you're old, you're 48.

[862] You might have another 50 years in the can here, Priscilla, and so you've got lots of time to build wealth with this income and I want you put to good use instead of continuing to play games with debt.

[863] And that's going to be hard.

[864] Your husband needs to watch this call.

[865] I don't know that we can convince him, but this has to be a unified decision.

[866] 100%.

[867] Yeah, I think he's got to understand how you're feeling about this because all of, again, it's not always just about the numbers.

[868] I mean, George laid out a really great numbers plan, but when you called in, it was exhausting.

[869] It was a lot going on.

[870] And you don't want to have that stress and that hassle, especially into your retirement years.

[871] So this is going to simplify your life and find you the money you need to get death free.

[872] Build a life you're not exhausted by.

[873] That's the new American dream.

[874] This is the Ramsey Show.

[875] You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial gameplay.

[876] But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance?

[877] Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill.

[878] And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work.

[879] That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help.

[880] They work for you, not the insurance company.

[881] So they find you the right health insurance and they save you money.

[882] Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts.

[883] And whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things.

[884] Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't.

[885] Health Trust Financial is your one -stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options.

[886] They could save you hundreds of dollars a month.

[887] So make sure you're not overpaying.

[888] Go to health trustfinancial .com today.

[889] Healthtrustfinancial .com.

[890] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[891] I'm Jade Warshall, your host.

[892] Next to me is George Camel, your other host.

[893] We're taking your calls all afternoon long.

[894] So that means you can give us a call.

[895] The number's triple 8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -25 call in, and we'll do our best to help you out with your situation.

[896] Remember, let it be about life and money, career.

[897] Like, you can throw some family stuff in there, helps.

[898] Don't go too far in the weeds.

[899] All right, let's go to the phone lines.

[900] We've got Tiffany in Denver, Colorado.

[901] What's going on, Tiffany?

[902] Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

[903] So I started the total money makeover about four months ago.

[904] About a year and a half ago, I had $70 ,000 in debt.

[905] I bring in about $120 ,000 a year.

[906] And I had approximately $20 ,000 in savings.

[907] I wasn't aggressively trying to pay down the debt.

[908] I was just paying what was due.

[909] and my aging dog, who I've had for a very long time, fell ill, and I spent more than that $20 ,000 that I had saved on his care.

[910] So since then, really grateful he's been in quality health, but he is aging, and he's aged out of being eligible for pet insurance.

[911] And so my question to you is, over the last four months, I've managed to tackle about $12 ,000 of this debt, and, you know, I've took on a part of.

[912] time job and a roommate and really just been very aggressively trying to pay down this debt.

[913] But as part of the total money makeover, I reduced my savings to about $1 ,000.

[914] My concern is some of these medical expenses for my dog are going to be upcoming and they're going to be big.

[915] And so we're talking probably over the course of the next couple years, probably $10 ,000 to $12 ,000 to get him the treatment that he needs.

[916] I know.

[917] How old's the dog?

[918] my life.

[919] He's 11.

[920] He's 11.

[921] But he's got good life in him.

[922] What's the breed?

[923] I'm not trying to he's a great dane.

[924] Oh wow.

[925] Listen, I get it.

[926] I have a Rottweiler.

[927] He's 12 years old and I mean, they don't usually live that long, so I totally get it.

[928] Okay, great Dane.

[929] Wow.

[930] He's doing good.

[931] He is.

[932] I'm very, very blessed.

[933] But I want to continue to be, you know, a good steward of this pet.

[934] and I know that that's going to be costly.

[935] So I'm curious what your advice is.

[936] Do I scale back the, you know, vigor with which I'm paying down this debt?

[937] I'm really hesitant to re -engage with those lines of credit in order to pay for his care.

[938] No, we're not doing that.

[939] Here's the thing.

[940] Let me just get a handle on the numbers because some of it was in the past and some of it's in the future.

[941] So you cleared out all the money you had saved.

[942] You're down to 1K and you now have 70 ,000.

[943] Is that where you're at in debt?

[944] I started at 70, and that's including all of my student loans, car, credit cards, and some of the debt that was incurred on his initial treatment.

[945] Okay.

[946] And now I think I'm at, like, 52 or 53.

[947] 52 or 53.

[948] Can you tell me how much is on the credit card?

[949] It's spread across various credit card.

[950] So I think there's 5K, approximately 5 .5.

[951] Okay.

[952] on one card.

[953] There's a care credit line, which I think I have three on, and then there's a separate revolving credit that has, I think, two on it.

[954] And how much do you owe on your car?

[955] 18.

[956] 18, I think.

[957] And what's the student loan?

[958] The remainder is the student loan.

[959] What's the car worth?

[960] Probably approximately 18.

[961] I've been kind of impressed with the value that it's held.

[962] Okay.

[963] Listen, okay, we can attack this in a couple of different ways.

[964] As I mentioned before, you know, our advice is our advice.

[965] You can do what you can do what you want to do on this.

[966] If you choose to put 10 or 12 or $15 ,000 aside to take care of this pet, that's your prerogative, it's really going to set you back time -wise.

[967] Now, you've got a nice income, $120 ,000.

[968] You really get to decide how extreme you're going to go on this.

[969] If you say, you know what, this pet means everything to me. I'm forfeiting the $15 ,000.

[970] for the pet's care, then that's just more.

[971] I'd try to make that up in side hustling.

[972] I'd try to make that up in any way possible.

[973] Sacrifice and lifestyle.

[974] Sacrifice everything.

[975] So the way I would look at this is I want to be debt -free as soon as possible, so I'm able to cash flow all of the upcoming pet expenses.

[976] So let's say you have 52 left.

[977] You make 120.

[978] What if we could tackle this debt in a year or less?

[979] So in one year from now, you're debt -free and you're able to cash flow all the expenses.

[980] Until then, I would create a sinking fund if this is a priority for you and say, all right, I'm going to put 500 bucks away every month for this dog.

[981] That will slow down my debt pay off by 500 bucks a month.

[982] And you just have to eat that and go, all right, I'm willing to make, you know, it's going to take a little longer.

[983] Or like Jade said, what if we could find a way to make an extra 500 that now goes toward the sinking fund so we don't slow down our debt snowball?

[984] That would excite me more about this process.

[985] but the thing is we are not going into debt ever again to cover a medical expense for the dog or you for that matter okay that makes total sense and just to be clear when i started the money makeover i did take on um a part -time job and a roommate and so that is part of that 120 i make an extra $2 ,500 a month um so i think a sinking fund sounds like a good idea in the short term had you projected your actually prepare for that you projected your debt -free payoff?

[986] June of 25, if I keep paying at the rate that I am.

[987] I keep my living expenses as low as I possibly can.

[988] So you're on track to do a year from now.

[989] So this 10 to 15 ,000.

[990] Now, I do think, and you know, I might get canceled for this, but I do think that you should set some sort of a boundary.

[991] Don't tell her to sell the dog, Jane.

[992] No, no, no, I'm just saying, set some sort of boundary or limit and say, okay, what am I willing to, what more am I willing to invest into this?

[993] because these things can go, they can go crazy.

[994] It can be unlimited.

[995] I mean, people have spent $30 ,000, $40 ,000 to keep their animal alive.

[996] And at some point, you know, people have different feelings about this.

[997] Dave will go, well, it's sad, but there's another dog out there.

[998] And Dave loves animals.

[999] Let me tell you that.

[1000] He's not an animal hater.

[1001] There may be no amount of money I would not be willing to spend to keep my two French bulldogs alive, Tiffany.

[1002] And see, I have a limit.

[1003] I get it.

[1004] I love my dog.

[1005] You know, I've had Boutu since he was five weeks old, but I do have a limit on what I would spend, especially at his age and I think going into it it's good to have that so that if you do hit it hit that barrier it's like okay there's a little bit of I mean there's guardrails everybody needs guardrails so I think it's worth it to think through that I hope it never comes to that but you know that's what I would do if I were in your shoes there's also there's also that spot where you go all right this animal has had it its best of its life and I have to do what's right for the animal yeah and that might mean letting the animal you know continue on with its poor health and yeah and eventually it goes and it's sad but at some point it's selfish to keep an animal alive for our benefit when it's not doing well and it has a miserable quality of life now that's not this situation although a great dane did she say he was 11 11 that's he's he's on he's getting old he's gray i found the the the smaller you know french bulldogs don't have a super long life but the small dogs can just keep going oh man those guys they they hang in there for life but the bigger the dog you know it's it's harder to sustain life yeah With those big bones.

[1006] My Rottweiler is, what is he, is it 12 or 13?

[1007] And he's showed no signs of flowing down.

[1008] Although I recently, I'm thinking that his left eye is starting to cloud up a little bit.

[1009] He's not seeing his treats as well.

[1010] And so he's getting old.

[1011] Listen, I took my French bulldog to the vet and they did x -rays and everything.

[1012] They're like, oh, yeah, she's got a few spinal bone.

[1013] She's got the inverted tail.

[1014] She's got hip dysplasia.

[1015] And I went, how did this all happen?

[1016] She was like, oh, she was born like this.

[1017] And I was like, oh, okay.

[1018] French bulldogs.

[1019] They're just born broken.

[1020] And you're just, that's why they're so expensive, Jade.

[1021] It's just.

[1022] My dog's eyes don't make tears anymore.

[1023] That's how old he is.

[1024] Just cries on the inside?

[1025] He has to have drops in his eyes.

[1026] And, okay, you guys can sound off on this.

[1027] We went to the vet two years ago for his eyes, or maybe it was a year and a half.

[1028] And they said he's old.

[1029] His eyes don't make tears anymore.

[1030] So you have to have these drops for the rest of his life.

[1031] And I'm like, okay, that's great.

[1032] But every six months, they want to.

[1033] to bring him back in so they can rewrite the prescription, but he has to pay for a visit.

[1034] I'm like, you already said this is going to be it for the rest of his life.

[1035] That's a scam.

[1036] That's messed up.

[1037] I don't like when they do that.

[1038] I'll just tell you right now, well, what do you feel about the pet insurance, George?

[1039] Would you do it?

[1040] You know, I rarely find that it's worth it, but, you know, it's kind of a piece of mind insurance for some people, especially if you have a higher risk dog.

[1041] So I'm not mad of people for it, but we would tell you, hey, get a sinking fund and put away that same amount of money.

[1042] You'll usually end off, you know, better off financially.

[1043] That's what I would do.

[1044] But most of them are overpriced for what you get.

[1045] Well, don't get caught up.

[1046] That's the moral of the story.

[1047] Don't get caught up and don't go into debt for these pets.

[1048] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1049] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[1050] Live from the debt -free stage, we have Will and Katie from Greenville, South Carolina.

[1051] What's going on, guys?

[1052] Good.

[1053] Hey, how's it going?

[1054] We're doing pretty good.

[1055] So what brings you in here?

[1056] We are debt free Awesome Good reason Tell us how much you paid off Well I paid off 102 ,000 I did it separate And Will did it separate And we just got married A month ago So we made a promise to each other To start our marriage Debt free That's This is a dual debt free scream You guys did this individually Became dead free And then got married Correct Okay so yours was 102K KD And Will what was yours again?

[1057] I was right at $45 ,000.

[1058] Okay, so what kind of debt?

[1059] What kind of debt was it?

[1060] Mine was all student loans.

[1061] I knew it.

[1062] Will, what was yours?

[1063] Same thing.

[1064] Student loans and I had a car payment for a little while.

[1065] Wow.

[1066] And how long did this take?

[1067] Well, Katie, we'll start with you.

[1068] How long did yours take?

[1069] 30 months.

[1070] 30 months?

[1071] Will, what about you?

[1072] It's 18 months.

[1073] Was this a competition?

[1074] Did you guys start at the same time?

[1075] I see who gets there first.

[1076] Obviously, Katie had the bigger number.

[1077] So I found the Ramsey and the baby steps, The Ramsey Show, and the baby steps first.

[1078] And we were dating.

[1079] And I brought it to his attention at dinner one time.

[1080] And how long, how long are you been dating?

[1081] Five years.

[1082] Oh, wow.

[1083] Okay.

[1084] So this was just, it wasn't in the beginning.

[1085] No. We had been dating for probably a year or two.

[1086] And I've again, found the baby steps.

[1087] And I was like, I can do this.

[1088] And I've always been very budgeted and had an Excel spreadsheet.

[1089] But this really made me find.

[1090] tune it and I was like I can really get through my student loans and so I brought it to the table and I was like we really shouldn't get through our debt independent you know because we started and after two years we're like okay we're going to make this a future thing and let's independently pay off our debt and start marriage so was it a goal to do you have all your debt paid off before the wedding yes was it like a race to the finish here how close was it um we did it so I paid off mine first and then he was a little Dave ish and there were a lot of arguments about, you know, really kicking his butt in gear.

[1091] It was some debates.

[1092] Spirited conversation.

[1093] But he made me a promise.

[1094] It was the start of 2023.

[1095] And he was like, by the end of the year, I promise you, I will have my debt paid off.

[1096] And he kept that promise.

[1097] I think it was the 23rd of December.

[1098] Wow.

[1099] Just in the nick of time, you swung in there.

[1100] Exactly, yeah.

[1101] Will, how did you feel when she brings us up at dinner?

[1102] You're like, listen, I'm trying to have my stick.

[1103] and here you are.

[1104] How did that feel?

[1105] I mean, it was, it was interesting.

[1106] I was new to the whole thing, but it made sense once we got into it and then you start thinking about it in the future.

[1107] It's like, okay, like a lot of problems you hear in marriage derive from the finances, right?

[1108] That's right.

[1109] The spender, the saver, clashing heads.

[1110] I didn't want that stress.

[1111] I wanted to go into this, you know, on the same page.

[1112] That way, the worst thing we argue about, I forgot to take out recyclables.

[1113] I love that.

[1114] That's, I mean, that's a smart way of thinking.

[1115] Like, you don't want these big problems.

[1116] Like, if you can tackle the big things, yeah, let it be about taking out the garbage.

[1117] I love that.

[1118] What was the range of income during this time for each of you?

[1119] So mine was 63 to 87.

[1120] And I started right around 50, ended up about 55.

[1121] Nice.

[1122] Awesome.

[1123] What do you guys do for a living?

[1124] I'm an architect, commercial architect.

[1125] Cool.

[1126] I work inside sales at a distributor, and then I work part -time at FedEx package handler.

[1127] Nice.

[1128] It's awesome.

[1129] So he picked up that job to pay off debt.

[1130] And I also talked him into selling his car.

[1131] So, I mean, he's put a lot on the line.

[1132] Katie, you're a persuasive woman.

[1133] You should be in the sales role.

[1134] You're crushing at this.

[1135] So what was the hardest part?

[1136] I mean, for each of you, I had to have been a little bit different.

[1137] I mean, obviously, Katie, you had more debt, but you were earning a little bit more.

[1138] Will you had a little bit less.

[1139] Like, tell us how.

[1140] that dichotomy like?

[1141] I mean I struggled like early on because I picked it up first so he was out there spending spending spending and I'm like I'm following this plan man and if you're gonna you know be in my future you better get on board and yes I mean he finally realized that he was like he was like I was going to lose you if I didn't get on board I was like yep you were exactly wow that was a big fear for me and just my background you know we didn't really have much growing up so I finally get a job I'm finally starting to see some income and it's like, hey, by the way, we should use all of your money to pay off your debts.

[1142] Right.

[1143] Oh, really?

[1144] It makes you feel some type of way.

[1145] Exactly.

[1146] Now you enter your marriage completely debt -free, which changes everything.

[1147] Yeah.

[1148] Like, sky's the limit.

[1149] We just had our first joint budget meeting, which is very different for us because we've been so separate.

[1150] So, I mean, that was like easy and fun and where's our money going to go?

[1151] I love that.

[1152] We got to pick that out.

[1153] Well, some couple's first budget meeting is like, oh, shoot.

[1154] We got to pay off your 100 ,000 in student loans.

[1155] Like, there's some resentment, there's some frustration, there's some anger, some sadness.

[1156] And so I love that you guys entered this season with just joy and freedom.

[1157] That's beautiful.

[1158] You have the honeymoon already?

[1159] Yes.

[1160] Where did you guys go?

[1161] We went to St. Lucia.

[1162] Oh, nice.

[1163] Paid in cash, I have to hope.

[1164] Exactly.

[1165] Yeah, that's one of the beauties of this is you can do trips like that and you don't have to worry about the repercussions when you come back.

[1166] No credit card payments to make after this trip.

[1167] Oh, look at the photos.

[1168] That's beautiful.

[1169] They had their little fancy drinks.

[1170] Thanks.

[1171] How did you guys?

[1172] How'd you play in the cost of the wedding?

[1173] Did you have family help or was that part of the debt payoff?

[1174] Like, how did you do that?

[1175] So we cash float it.

[1176] My parents paid for half of it.

[1177] They were going to put in all of it.

[1178] But I was like, no, we're grown up.

[1179] Like, we can do half of it.

[1180] And we cash flowed it.

[1181] We cash flowed the honeymoon.

[1182] He cash flowed my engagement ring.

[1183] So everything has been cash flowed.

[1184] Cash flowed a new HVAC system.

[1185] I mean, so everything, once I got on board the steps, It was just, I mean, all in.

[1186] That's something.

[1187] So what do you say to the folks who are in your shoes, right?

[1188] Maybe they're newlyweds.

[1189] They haven't started on their debt yet.

[1190] Maybe they're engaged.

[1191] And, you know, they're starting to have those preliminary money conversations.

[1192] What would you tell them?

[1193] For me, Bogo groceries.

[1194] You got to get the deals.

[1195] And then take advantage of the free tools that are out there.

[1196] You guys have a great app that it's completely free.

[1197] What's it called?

[1198] It's every dollar, every dollar budget and app.

[1199] The tools are free.

[1200] hustle, on the other hand, it's sold separate.

[1201] You've got to put the work in.

[1202] Hustle sold separately.

[1203] This guy.

[1204] I love it.

[1205] So, yeah, and just don't let other people get in your head.

[1206] People will tell you all day their financial advice.

[1207] That's fine.

[1208] If it works for them, it works for them.

[1209] Do what's going to work for you in your future.

[1210] And once you get to this point, it's so magical.

[1211] I can't explain it to you.

[1212] I just hope that you can experience it one day too.

[1213] And you can't.

[1214] I love that.

[1215] That's beautiful.

[1216] Oh my goodness.

[1217] What an exciting time, guys.

[1218] Yeah.

[1219] So what's next for you guys?

[1220] We are going to get a new car.

[1221] Well, new car to us.

[1222] So we talked to the other night that we're going to, his car is really old.

[1223] So we're going to save up for a couple months.

[1224] And in the fall, purchase a used new to us car with cash, of course.

[1225] Buying cars and cash.

[1226] And you guys now have the muscle built of going, we know how to save up in cash flow things.

[1227] Vacations, HVACs, cars.

[1228] Nothing scares you once you've done the hard work of paying off, you know, six figures in debt.

[1229] Right.

[1230] And we do have a mortgage.

[1231] So I got into a mortgage on my own prior to the baby steps.

[1232] But now it's our mortgage.

[1233] And we've got a goal of December 2025.

[1234] So we are back in gazelle intensity.

[1235] Wow.

[1236] Y 'all are going intense on the mortgage too.

[1237] I'd like to get it done.

[1238] That's also on our horizon.

[1239] Well, we're proud of you guys.

[1240] We're going to make sure you have two every dollar gift cards since every dollar worked so well for you.

[1241] We've got two that you can share with the people in your life, hopefully inspire them to get down the right track as well.

[1242] But let's get ready to set up that screen.

[1243] So we've got Will and Katie from Greenville, South Carolina paying off separately before marriage, 102, and 45 ,000 and 18 to 30 months making $55 to $87 ,000.

[1244] You guys are rock stars.

[1245] Let's count it down.

[1246] Three, two, one, we're dead free.

[1247] He said the hustle is sold separately.

[1248] Hustle sold separately.

[1249] That's going to be living in my I hadn't rent free for a while.

[1250] I mean, that's real.

[1251] Like, we'll give you the plan.

[1252] And here's the other life hack.

[1253] Threaten your fiancé into debt freedom.

[1254] That's a strategy.

[1255] It worked for Katie.

[1256] I'm just saying.

[1257] She was like, if you don't do this, this deal is off.

[1258] He's like, you want to get with this?

[1259] You're going to have to get rid of that debt first, all right?

[1260] I love it.

[1261] And I love that they did it the right way.

[1262] They're like, listen, you do yours.

[1263] I'll do mine.

[1264] We'll come together.

[1265] We'll cash flow this wedding.

[1266] And then we'll go to St. Lucia to celebrate.

[1267] Wonderful stuff.

[1268] It doesn't get any better than this.

[1269] Wow.

[1270] This is the Ramsey show.

[1271] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[1272] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[1273] This is George Camel.

[1274] We're taking your calls.

[1275] So give us a call of the numbers.

[1276] Triple 8, 825 -5 -2 -2 -5, and we'll get you on the board.

[1277] Hey, we've got a great event that's coming up soon.

[1278] It's called Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials, of which, George, you're a big part of this.

[1279] I am stoked for this event.

[1280] We are preparing.

[1281] There's so much in the weeds in the best way possible.

[1282] I'm like, Dave, you've never shared this stuff publicly.

[1283] He's like, no, this has been the recesses of my brain.

[1284] for 20 years.

[1285] So it's going to be very interesting as we deep dive on, of course, the investing 101, the basics, but very quickly getting into some more nuanced pieces.

[1286] How do you choose mutual funds?

[1287] What's the formula that you use to buy real estate property?

[1288] He's going to do some deep dives on that.

[1289] I'll be covering a lot of the investment traps.

[1290] We're taking questions live, pre -submitted questions from the audience, and we've already got thousands signed up for this.

[1291] So it's going to be a great two nights.

[1292] I've been asking some questions from some of the folks who have helped put this together and it sounds like the first night is mostly investing like stock market investing and night two is is the real estate stuff yeah i love this okay so at the event dave's going to go into deep diving into investing and for the first time ever he's sharing his personal playbook on investing including exactly how he buys real estate this is a two -night virtual event again it's happening may 21 through may 22 and because it's online you can watch it in your snuggie.

[1293] That's what I'm talking about.

[1294] And here's the best part.

[1295] If you can't make the exact time on those days, you have 48 hours after the event to catch the replay.

[1296] And if you do VIP, I think you have 14 days.

[1297] And so this is a great option for those that are going, hey, I can't make it.

[1298] Still sign up because this information is well worth your time.

[1299] It's tickets are on $199.

[1300] And you can bring your spouse on board.

[1301] You don't have to pay for an extra ticket for them.

[1302] $199.

[1303] You'll have access to the stream.

[1304] I love that.

[1305] Investing is something that you guys have asked us about.

[1306] You've said, hey, we want to go deeper into this.

[1307] We want to know more about it.

[1308] And so this event is for you.

[1309] We're starting with the basics.

[1310] Okay.

[1311] But then we're diving into the specifics.

[1312] Like George said, things like mutual funds, real estate.

[1313] You'll learn specifically how to maximize your 401k and your mutual funds as it's related.

[1314] You'll learn Dave's personal strategy again for his investing and which investing trends to follow and which ones to avoid.

[1315] So again, tickets there $199.

[1316] If you do, let's invite me to your house.

[1317] I want to watch it.

[1318] I will be taking notes and I'll be standing there the whole time.

[1319] Like, okay, what was that, Dave?

[1320] One more time?

[1321] I'll watch the replay.

[1322] I know, right?

[1323] Visit Ramsey Solutions .com slash events to get your tickets today.

[1324] Love that.

[1325] I can't wait for that.

[1326] That is so, so valuable.

[1327] All right, let's go to Birmingham, Illinois, and go to Missy.

[1328] What's going on, Missy?

[1329] Hey, guys, I'm so happy to talk to you.

[1330] You as well.

[1331] How can we help?

[1332] Okay, so I want educated today.

[1333] I want to know.

[1334] about my whole life insurance.

[1335] I know that Dave doesn't like it.

[1336] So I want to just cash it out and put that money onto our debt and get out of debt a few months faster.

[1337] But Dave also says don't do things that you don't understand.

[1338] So I want to understand these policies.

[1339] And I just don't understand what I would get or what my husband would get.

[1340] If I passed away, I know Dave says like some of it the insurance company is just going to keep that's right with most policies yes the way it's so so first off i mean i would say i love that you're digging into this i love that you're getting the sense that whole life isn't the way to go however i wouldn't just up and cancel it cash out get your cash value and run we want to make sure that you're covered um that you have the right life insurance in place and we kind of like to bridge that gap and get one in place before you cancel the other one so if you're thinking about term life that's what we would suggest it's a whole heck of a lot cheaper and you get you know the coverage for the term that you choose 15 or 20 years and that frees up a lot of money that you could do your own investing with as opposed to a whole life situation my question though because my I have two policies two whole life policies and I only pay $207 a year on one $39 a year on the other one.

[1341] So they're not breaking me by any means.

[1342] But what are these policies worth?

[1343] One of them, the benefit amount is $20 ,000.

[1344] The other benefit is $5 ,400.

[1345] And see, that's why you're not paying much.

[1346] You ain't got no insurance.

[1347] We want your insurance coverage.

[1348] The whole purpose of it, let's go back.

[1349] The whole purpose of it is to cover your income for the people who depend on it.

[1350] So if you were to pass away, you have a level of income, you know, your spouse is dependent on that and vice versa.

[1351] And so we would usually say 10 to 12 times what you earn in a year is what you're looking for.

[1352] That's the coverage amount.

[1353] Maybe if you're a stay at home mom, George, what is it, three to four times or four to five times?

[1354] We generally say at least a, you know, a $500 ,000 policy, assuming that a stay at home, you know, spouse, it would cost at least 50 grand just to cover some of the duties.

[1355] That's right.

[1356] Like child care and some of the other things involved.

[1357] So that's why this is so.

[1358] And I I guess that's where me and my husband, we haven't talked fully about how much life insurance I should have on me. Like, he has a ton.

[1359] So if something happens to him, I'm set all as well.

[1360] And I guess, like, I guess we kind of feel like I don't need as much as he has on himself.

[1361] If I were to pass away, like he would go pay with his income fully.

[1362] The rule of thumb to tell him is 10 to 12 times your income and 10 to 12 times his income.

[1363] That's what we're looking at.

[1364] And then at least half a million if it's a state home spouse.

[1365] else.

[1366] So that's the rule of thumb.

[1367] And what we're here's here's the crux of this entire argument.

[1368] And you said it before.

[1369] You know, in these whole life packages, part of part of the money that you're paying is going to your premium and part of it is investing into your cash value.

[1370] Right.

[1371] And when you die, if something, if something happens and you pass away, you don't get to keep the cash value.

[1372] That's what we always say.

[1373] And so the insurance company, that's the part that they keep.

[1374] Okay.

[1375] So we always say, well, that's not fair.

[1376] If you've been investing into this for all this time, shouldn't you get to keep it and you don't?

[1377] So that's thing one.

[1378] And thing two is if you really think about it, a lot of those whole life situations, the rate of return is really, really bad, like two to four percent bad.

[1379] Like it's really bad.

[1380] So the idea is, hey, you could get a term life plan and pay a fraction of the cost.

[1381] And with all that extra money, you could invest into the good growth stock mutual funds and get a rate of return that's 8 to 10 % and it's invested in what you wanted in.

[1382] You've got a lot more choice in the matter.

[1383] And so that's why we say that.

[1384] Plus, then there's the idea that, you know, if you work the baby steps and you keep on going, at some point you're going to be self -insured and you're not even going to need a policy like this unless you don't need insurance for your whole life.

[1385] You need it until you're self -insured.

[1386] And that's the problem is you pay this thing forever and it's so expensive.

[1387] expensive.

[1388] Here's the deal.

[1389] If I told you, hey, buy my auto insurance, but I'm going to make you pay an extra few hundred bucks and you can invest through your auto insurance.

[1390] You would, you'd be like, you're an idiot.

[1391] I'm not buying that.

[1392] And yet we do it with life insurance every day.

[1393] And so that's one more reason to go, this, don't mix your insurance with your investing.

[1394] Let your insurance do what it's supposed to do.

[1395] So let's say just hypothetically, you know, I drop dead tomorrow.

[1396] What like, is the benefit amount or the death benefit is my husband actually going to get that or they would write him a check for the benefit you said it's 20 ,000 and one was 5 ,400 so he'd get you know 25 ,400 okay but he may not get the cash value most policies are set up to where you don't get the cash value if you die you only get the benefit amount the face value of the policy and let's just pretend let's pretend you did get the death benefit let's pretend you did get the the cash value how much cash is in this thing oh it's not much of anything.

[1397] One of them, one cash value is $1 ,700.

[1398] The other cash value is $970 ,000.

[1399] I'll buy some flowers for the funeral, I guess, with that kind of money.

[1400] I'm like, you could take that money, like I said, and invests at a far better, I mean, this, like I said, many of them are like 2 to 4%.

[1401] So you could do better in a high yield savings account is my point.

[1402] Here's the spark notes.

[1403] Get term life in place.

[1404] Make sure the policy is effective and running.

[1405] Then cancel the whole life.

[1406] There's going to be surrender whatever fees and you're going to eat crow on it.

[1407] But you know what?

[1408] You're going to set yourself up for wealth building the future the right way.

[1409] And I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

[1410] I want you to read the Investing Traps chapter with your husband because I cover permanent life in detail explaining with the numbers and covering the different types.

[1411] And I think it will give you some peace that you guys are doing the right thing.

[1412] Okay, great.

[1413] That's awesome.

[1414] Thank you so much.

[1415] You're welcome.

[1416] You hang on the line and Austin will make sure you get a copy of Breaking Free from Broke.

[1417] What a great call.

[1418] We get that all the time.

[1419] I think there's a lot of confusion around that because people for some reason like to use their insurance as investing tools.

[1420] And it's peddled so hard because people make so much money by selling it.

[1421] There's a reason Gerber's got life insurance for the babies on there and you think you're being a good parent.

[1422] Your baby doesn't have income.

[1423] There's nothing to replace your people.

[1424] That's a very, very good point.

[1425] Although my baby hopefully will with some modeling gigs.

[1426] Your baby is very cute.

[1427] Baby Mia is too precious.

[1428] Yeah, she's cover, front cover worthy.

[1429] Definitely.

[1430] All right, that does it for this hour of the show.

[1431] Thanks for hanging out with George and I. We'll see you next hour on The Ramsey Show.

[1432] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1433] I am your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by George.

[1434] Camel, good to be here with you, George.

[1435] It's so great.

[1436] You know what, Jay, this is a special day.

[1437] As we get started this hour, special shout out to producer James Childs 13 years at Ramsey today.

[1438] Congratulations, James.

[1439] The haters doubted.

[1440] None of us thought you'd still be here.

[1441] and you've done excellence in the ordinary for 13 years now and another shout out to associate producer Austin Selby who is last day at Ramsey's tomorrow he's moving away from us and he's served us with excellence now for almost three years and moved on to producing the Entree Leadership podcast with Dave and he will be sorely sorely missed so thank you Austin and congratulations James a happy and sad day around here I feel like we should be singing like boys to men into the road I won't do that can I be honest I do that when Any team member leaves, I play that song and follow them out the door.

[1442] Although we've come.

[1443] That's it.

[1444] That's all you get.

[1445] That's good.

[1446] Let's go to a call.

[1447] These are very important announcements that we do have to make.

[1448] We've got to celebrate the team behind the show.

[1449] Of course.

[1450] They make it happen.

[1451] We were the number 16 show in the nation.

[1452] That's legit.

[1453] And it's, you know, it's not because of us, Jade.

[1454] Definitely not.

[1455] It's because of the amazing team that pulls this show off every day.

[1456] Otherwise, we just, listen, without them, we're just nerds that think a lot and talk to ourselves in the car.

[1457] All right.

[1458] Let's go to the phone lines where we've got Martin in Charlotte, North Carolina.

[1459] What's going on, Martin?

[1460] Hey, everyone.

[1461] My question is, I have an RV that is my primary residence, and I was wondering if I should treat that loan as bad debt or as like if it's my, like if it's a house loan.

[1462] Well, as I'm working on the snowball effect.

[1463] Here's the thing.

[1464] It's on wheels, and therefore it's a depreciating asset.

[1465] And therefore, we would put it in the boat or in the RV of bad debt.

[1466] Because that thing is going down in value every day you live in it, unlike a traditional home, which would go up in value over time.

[1467] Okay.

[1468] So what's your long -term game plan?

[1469] The long -term game plan was to pay down debt, obviously, then purchase a plot of land and build a house.

[1470] Okay.

[1471] How much debt do you have left outside of the RV?

[1472] Outside of the RV, under $30 ,000.

[1473] Okay.

[1474] What's left on the RV?

[1475] I think roughly 40 ,000.

[1476] And what's it worth?

[1477] It's worth about 37, give or take.

[1478] You've made my point.

[1479] We're already underwater on this thing.

[1480] And so hanging on to it just means you're still going to owe 40 or 39, and that thing's going to be worth 36, 35, 34.

[1481] You see where this is going?

[1482] Yes, sir.

[1483] How quickly are you going to be out of debt, the 30K?

[1484] roughly in eight months in eight months so the plan is in eight months we're debt -free we're thinking of a way to sell this RV and figuring out what it takes to get in another rental that's not going on and going down in value so that you can start saving up is that what you're thinking yeah either that or save an emergency fund and then go that route because the rental is going to be more expensive how quickly can you get your emergency fund I already have the first up the thousand dollars it's it's the the 36 months yeah it would roughly be four months four and a half months for that okay and that's does that get you three or does that get you six that gets me six ma 'am okay i'm wondering if you go three and then start saving up to get out of this RV because you're you're upside down and so i'm trying to mitigate the loss we want to get rid of it as quickly as possible okay i'm even wondering could you sell the RV i know you're underwater by a few grants So you save up the difference, sell the RV and just go rent and get a roommate.

[1485] I mean, that is a possibility.

[1486] What's your RV payment?

[1487] Nothing's off the table.

[1488] It's $400.

[1489] Okay.

[1490] I'm just wondering your area, could you get a roommate and you split the cost of rent and you're paying $500 or $600 and rent?

[1491] But you've got this debt out of your life.

[1492] Now we can focus on $30.

[1493] It's not going to slow you down by all that much.

[1494] Yeah, there's definitely a possibility.

[1495] I just have to look around, but nothing's off the table.

[1496] I'd probably go that route simply because this thing is kind of dropping like a rock.

[1497] And if we're talking about, you know, a year and a half from now being ready to rent after the debt is cleared, after the three to six months, after you save up first and last month's rent, like I feel like a year from now, you could look up and be $5 ,000 upside down or more.

[1498] Yes, ma 'am.

[1499] Because for the next eight months, you'd be making minimum payments on the RV while throwing the rest at your other debts.

[1500] And so now your balance hasn't moved all that much, but that interest is still climbing while your car is depreciating.

[1501] So you kind of have a few things happening all at once, converging, that make this a bad plan.

[1502] Okay.

[1503] So I hope that helps.

[1504] Get out of this thing, rent for a while.

[1505] That's what I would do if I was in your shoes.

[1506] But yeah, the RV life, it seems like a wise move, but long term, it's not going to help you out because that thing is going down in value so quickly.

[1507] It's definitely not the move.

[1508] But thank you for the call.

[1509] We got Nate, who's in Dallas, Texas.

[1510] Let's see what Nate's talking about.

[1511] What's up, Nate?

[1512] Hey, how are you all?

[1513] Doing good.

[1514] How can we help?

[1515] Yes, I was just calling.

[1516] I'm 21, and I haven't been back to school yet, and I plan on going back this fall.

[1517] I've been working full -time, and I, you know, I'm in a job that I really enjoy and that I like and that there's some pretty good potential.

[1518] And my girlfriend just recently decided that she's going to move and transfer to Alabama, which is about nine hours away from where we are.

[1519] And I'm just kind of thinking about moving with her or finishing up this coming year and then transferring.

[1520] Are you guys getting married?

[1521] Well, the plan was within the next two years, yes.

[1522] How long you've been dating?

[1523] Two years.

[1524] Okay.

[1525] Are you engaged?

[1526] Are you looking to get engaged in the next few months?

[1527] Yes.

[1528] yes okay um can I run this was the plan and then now you know with if this if she you know she moves that far away and why is she moving I'm not able to follow her I don't really for college for college okay so she still has a few years left and she's going to finish where at in Alabama the university of Alabama okay so would you be able to find a job in that area I mean ideally yes what kind of work do you do I work at a a small engineering firm, and we pretty much just do bridge inspection on the side that I work on.

[1529] So you said earlier in the conversation, you were like, I'm 21.

[1530] I haven't had a chance to go back to school yet, and you said that you were working full -time.

[1531] You had a job you really liked.

[1532] Can you talk a little bit about that?

[1533] Were you in school, and did you stop?

[1534] Why did you stop?

[1535] And what are you going to go back and do?

[1536] Yeah, so I got a semester of hours under my belt right now, and I've just been working, you know, since high school for two, about two years or two and a half years.

[1537] And I just kind of decided that I need to go back sooner and later.

[1538] So I'm starting up this fall.

[1539] I'm already registered and everything.

[1540] Are you paying cash?

[1541] And I'm going for accounting.

[1542] Yes, ma 'am.

[1543] Okay.

[1544] So you're going for accounting.

[1545] So you're going to switch fields entirely?

[1546] Well, yes.

[1547] I mean, I'm not, I was never really for engineering.

[1548] It was just kind of the job I landed.

[1549] Okay.

[1550] But you know, you know, you know, you know, want to do the accounting deal?

[1551] Yes.

[1552] And you can pay cash semester by semester.

[1553] Have you looked into what that's going to look like in Alabama?

[1554] Since for you, that's going to be an out -of -state school.

[1555] Exactly.

[1556] Exactly.

[1557] And it would, and it would, it's, I'm going to a community college this fall and I've looked at the one in Alabama and it's, it's almost double, which, you know, that's only 6 ,000.

[1558] Here's the thing.

[1559] Here's the thing.

[1560] I want you to think clearly about this because I don't want, even if she's going into debt for school, I don't want you going into debt for school.

[1561] You guys might have a long distance relationship for a while.

[1562] Here's the thing.

[1563] She decided to go to Alabama.

[1564] That doesn't mean you have to follow her.

[1565] You know, you'll see.

[1566] You might have to ride this one out and see where it ends up in the next couple of years, but I don't want you going into debt and I certainly don't want you sacrificing to chase a girl who's not your wife.

[1567] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1568] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[1569] I'm your host, Jade Warshaw.

[1570] I'm joined by George Camel, author of Breaking free from broke.

[1571] If you don't have a copy, make sure you pick up a copy.

[1572] It'll change your life.

[1573] It's this generation's total money makeover.

[1574] And speaking of that 20th anniversary, that's what I'm talking about.

[1575] Make sure you get one.

[1576] That's apt timing for Dave to go.

[1577] You know what?

[1578] Time to update this book.

[1579] I'm not going to let George compete with me. George was taking some of the, he was taking some of the smoke.

[1580] That's all right.

[1581] There's enough.

[1582] It's a honor to take smoke from Dave Ramsey.

[1583] There you go.

[1584] There you go.

[1585] All right.

[1586] Let's get into this question of the day, George.

[1587] the Ramsey Show question of the day comes from Lauren in Indiana.

[1588] Here's what she had to say.

[1589] After years of living paycheck to paycheck, I'm finally getting my life together, have paid off all my debt, and I'm in Baby Step 3.

[1590] But now I have a debilitating problem with anxiety around spending money.

[1591] Aside from regular spending on groceries, gas, and medications, I am terrified of the idea of spending money on other things I need.

[1592] For example, I need to buy a new car and repair the one I have in order to sell it.

[1593] And I'm scared of spending money on rent once I'm able to save enough to get my own place.

[1594] I always thought I would have peace once I no longer had debt, but this anxiety is holding me back.

[1595] How do I get used to the idea of spending money now that I have that cushion that I've worked so hard for?

[1596] This is a common problem.

[1597] So number one, Lauren, you're not alone in this.

[1598] This is like a new muscle you're flexing because for so long you've been in sacrifice mode.

[1599] And what we say is once you get out of baby step three, you move from intensity to intentionality.

[1600] So you're on the cusp of that.

[1601] And I do think once you have that emergency fund, it changes your anxiety around money because you're still not at safety quite yet until you get through baby step three.

[1602] I agree.

[1603] I also think there's, you know, depending on what your background is, she doesn't tell us much of her background.

[1604] But if you've, if you've experienced the things that go along with being broke, like I can think about times coming home and the water's been cut off and you're like, shoot, like the water's cut off.

[1605] you come home and the electricity has been cut off and you're like shoot the electric like those little things or you go you know I talk about in my book um the feeling of being you know at the register and you're you're you go to slide your card and you think it's going to be declined you don't know is it going to be declined is it going to go through like all of those things that make your heartbeat fast and make your your armpit sweat that all still lives inside of you and you know whether it's debt collectors calling your phone like to this day keep my phone face down like nobody's calling me but I feel that.

[1606] It's in my body and it doesn't go away.

[1607] And my guess is that there's probably something.

[1608] I mean, she literally says, I'm terrified at the idea of spending money and probably there's something inside of you that is fearful of one wrong move putting you back to where you were.

[1609] It's a scarcity mindset.

[1610] And what we have to move toward is an abundance mindset.

[1611] And this is not hebi -gib power of positive thinking.

[1612] This is getting a financial foundation under you, sticking to the budget to where you know, I've got the money to make the car repair.

[1613] So I don't need to freak out.

[1614] I'm paying cash.

[1615] for this used car so I don't need to freak out I've worked hard for it I'm going to enjoy the money and that takes time truthfully it may take months for you to finally get into that rhythm where you know I bought this thing it's going to hurt a little bit emotionally but I don't have debt hanging on the back of it and honestly it's for me a thing that helps a lot is when you do have your every dollar budget and you can look at it and say I budgeted for this the money is here and going and looking like honestly looking and saying okay the the the the thing that you talked about.

[1616] Are you, do you have a sinking fund that you're putting away for those repairs?

[1617] And just putting your eyeballs on it and going, okay, I'm being a responsible person.

[1618] And when you get ready to spend that money, just working with your brain and just telling yourself, hey, I'm a responsible person.

[1619] I'm not in debt anymore.

[1620] I'm safe.

[1621] Life is good.

[1622] I can't tell you, George, to this day, your girl, I talk to myself is all I'm telling you.

[1623] This reminds me up.

[1624] Whenever I go to the airport, I always go straight to my gate to make sure it exists.

[1625] Y 'all ever do that?

[1626] My husband drives me crazy with that.

[1627] You just walk over, yep, it exists, and then you turn around and go get some food.

[1628] That's kind of what it feels like with money for a while and like, I'm going to check the bank account just to make sure the emergency phone is still there.

[1629] Okay, it's still there.

[1630] I can go to bed now.

[1631] It hasn't moved.

[1632] No one took it.

[1633] And that takes a while to go, like there's no monster under the bed.

[1634] Yeah.

[1635] Like, no one's coming for me. I'm safe.

[1636] I love to hear in the comments.

[1637] I'd love for people to comment the thing that, you know, once they became debt free, it was like, this is the thing I struggled with or I still, you know, I still pay my, my, my, some people still pay their electric bill for the whole year.

[1638] just in case, you know, like, those kind of just in case things that you do.

[1639] I know, I've heard Dave talk about the Sharon wants it category.

[1640] SWI.

[1641] It's just there because it gives her a sense of security.

[1642] And I think we all have those things that if you build it into your normal life and into your budget, it will help out with that anxiety that you feel.

[1643] It's like, okay, some people, you know, we recommend three to six months of expenses.

[1644] Some people have seven or eight, and I'm not faulting them for that because there's something that's making them do that.

[1645] And it's like, listen, you do you, there is a personal part of personal finance.

[1646] And I think those sorts of thoughts will help her.

[1647] And the last thing I would say is force yourself to give, force yourself to spend.

[1648] So put that in the budget and it will release.

[1649] Once you have that open hand and you're giving more, I just talked to this happiness expert this morning, Jade, Arthur C. Brooks, some fascinating guy.

[1650] He said that there is an actual science to people that give, they actually make more money.

[1651] And it's not this karma thing.

[1652] He said, if you give a dollar, you get back one.

[1653] 160.

[1654] And he said it's because you are a problem solver.

[1655] And those people tend to work harder, to be more successful, to serve others more, and that ends up causing more success.

[1656] So it was a fascinating principle that unlock something.

[1657] And I think that's behind the spirit of giving and even spending.

[1658] Forcing yourself to have some fun money in the budget is a good thing.

[1659] And you have to spend that 50 bucks.

[1660] Lauren, no matter the month, I'm going to spend it.

[1661] I'm going to get a little massage.

[1662] I'm going to go out with friends.

[1663] I'm going to go play some mini golf.

[1664] Go buy a book, do something that brings you joy, and you'll realize that spending isn't this evil thing.

[1665] That's right.

[1666] We've kind of villainized spending when you're in debt to go, don't spend a dime.

[1667] Once you're out of debt, spend.

[1668] Live like no one else, so that later you can live like no one else.

[1669] That's good.

[1670] So don't forget that part.

[1671] You know, have a little something that you say to yourself, like a, I don't know, something that triggered.

[1672] Remember on anger management?

[1673] Goose Fabha.

[1674] Remember that?

[1675] Like you need a little something that you say, not Goosefaba, but you need like something that you're like, this is like, I'm safe.

[1676] Like, I worked for this.

[1677] It's in the budget.

[1678] Whatever that is.

[1679] Like it, George.

[1680] All right, let's go to the phone lines.

[1681] Cole in Salt Lake City joins us next.

[1682] What's up, Cole?

[1683] Hey, thanks for taking my call.

[1684] Sure.

[1685] No problem.

[1686] How can we help?

[1687] So about a year ago, I kind of fell into, my parents convinced me that they wanted to buy me a car, kind of as a gift.

[1688] Okay.

[1689] Instead of just getting a beater, like a beater.

[1690] Okay.

[1691] And it was supposed to be just a gift, but I've since gotten married, and they've now come back and said, well, you should take over his payment.

[1692] We want to give this to you.

[1693] Oh, that's messed up a little bit.

[1694] That's not a gift.

[1695] Yeah, yeah.

[1696] So I'm kind of scrambling.

[1697] I'm a full -time student, so I have one with working hours.

[1698] Is the debt in your parents' name or your name?

[1699] as right now it's in their name but they're wanting to transfer over my wife is actually international and so she's not able to work yet until all the green card stuff goes through what do you make i make so i work part -time i think gross it's about uh 1700 a month and we just moved into a new apartment i was paying student housing for about 500 months but now it's a little over a thousand a month.

[1700] And you make $1 ,700.

[1701] Hey, can I ask you a question?

[1702] Did, is there something going on with you and your parents?

[1703] Like, is this a spite thing?

[1704] Like, they didn't want you to get married.

[1705] And so now you're, we have, now you got to pay the car note.

[1706] Like, is there something going on?

[1707] No, I think it's just, you know, that's just what like married people do.

[1708] And it's like, if I'm old enough to be married, I'm old enough to have a car payment.

[1709] Do they know that you're broke?

[1710] Be a grown up.

[1711] I've, I've explained.

[1712] and we kind of have this conversation, but...

[1713] Like, if you take over this car, it's going to get repoed.

[1714] That's what, yeah.

[1715] Because what's the payment?

[1716] My question was, the payments, so I'm about, there's about 20 ,000 left on it.

[1717] Okay.

[1718] Payments about $4 .70 a month.

[1719] Ooh, and what's it worth?

[1720] I think I'm underwater.

[1721] I think it's only worth about $16 .70.

[1722] Yikes.

[1723] Dude, you make $20 ,000 a year.

[1724] This is a problem.

[1725] You can't afford this car.

[1726] Right.

[1727] And it sounds like it's now.

[1728] their problem because that debt is in their name and so if i were you i'd say mom dad i appreciate you buying me this gift but it's no longer a gift and you're going to sell it and you can do what you want yeah just give it back to them it's their car they decided on the payment and that payment is what got it upside down you didn't decide any of this you took a gift that they gave you and if they don't want to give you the gift anymore then you just give it back and that's how this works and you'll need to save up and buy yourself a car a little beater car maybe five six grand for now until you can upgrade that car but this is not cool man and there's a lot of parties to blame here but your parents calling us a gift and then turning it into a loan is not how this should have gone down agree ooh this is the ramsie show you're listening to the ramsie show i'm jade warshaw this is george camel we're taking your calls for the next hour or so give us a call the numbers triple eight eight two five five hey let's go straight to the phone lines we've got sarah who's in Dallas, Texas.

[1729] What's going on, Sarah?

[1730] Hi, Jade.

[1731] It's a pleasure to speak with both of you today.

[1732] I really appreciate you taking my call.

[1733] We're glad you're here.

[1734] How can we help?

[1735] So my husband and I, in January, officially became completely debt -free, we paid off the house.

[1736] Nice.

[1737] Whoa, congrats.

[1738] Yeah, it felt great for about two seconds because in December of last year, he was diagnosed with breast cancer.

[1739] And in February of this year, I was diagnosed with breast cancer.

[1740] Whoa.

[1741] So in the last three months, we have literally, every time I turn around, it's another $5 to $10 ,000, hey, you need to meet your deductible.

[1742] We need this up front.

[1743] You'll be paid back.

[1744] I mean, and I feel like I'm drowning.

[1745] He needs a new vehicle.

[1746] He has nearly 400 ,000 miles on his vehicle, and it's breaking.

[1747] And although we're debt -free, and we have more than, I mean, I have tons of an emergency fund, I guess, relatively speaking, I feel like I'm drowning still.

[1748] matter what I do.

[1749] And every time we turn around, it's $7 ,000 here or there.

[1750] What is your deductible?

[1751] We have a, our family deductible is $10 ,000.

[1752] Okay.

[1753] And once you hit that for the year, are you done?

[1754] Is that your out -of -pocket max?

[1755] That's my out -of -pocket max.

[1756] Okay, that's good.

[1757] And what's your income?

[1758] Before taxes, between $10 ,000 and $12 ,000 a month.

[1759] That's before taxes.

[1760] It varies.

[1761] Yeah, before taxes.

[1762] We're both self -employed.

[1763] Oh, okay.

[1764] And so I have to keep some back from for taxes.

[1765] That's right.

[1766] And some of that goes to investments.

[1767] And how much are you investing?

[1768] I calculated it.

[1769] You're going to laugh at this.

[1770] Usually close to about $50 ,000 a year.

[1771] Okay.

[1772] Is what percentage?

[1773] Is that about 40 % of your income?

[1774] That's about 30 % of our income.

[1775] Okay.

[1776] So, you you've been going hard.

[1777] Okay, so that could be some of the reason you're feeling it, because we'd say be at about 15%.

[1778] Now, you've got the house paid off, so you can invest more, but if you're in a season like you're in, I might dial it back to get some breathing room for a sec, and then dial it back up to, you know, 30 % once you're in the clear, and let your time and energy and money be focused on your health right now.

[1779] Okay.

[1780] Does it matter?

[1781] Does our age matter?

[1782] He's 60, and I'm 52.

[1783] 16 and 52.

[1784] Okay, well, I kind of wanted to ask you, not, you don't have to go too far in it, but like, what's the nature of the diagnosis?

[1785] Like, is it, is it, hey, we're going to go through radiation and this is going to be seven months that are really tough, but we have a great prognosis at the end, or is this looking like a battle, like a big, a long -term deal?

[1786] He had surgery and it's breast cancer for both of us, like you said.

[1787] And the surgery was considered curative for him.

[1788] He's just thought.

[1789] on oral medication.

[1790] Great.

[1791] I did not have a complete mastectomy.

[1792] I had only a partial mass removal, basically.

[1793] And we're still waiting on final results on that to find out if I have to go through chemotherapy and radiation or just radiation.

[1794] Understood.

[1795] Okay, praying for just radiation.

[1796] Okay, so with him, let's kind of, what I would do is I'd kind of try to project some of the timelines on this.

[1797] if his surgery was considered curative, what's it going to look like health care -wise for him?

[1798] Now that he's had his surgery, it feels like you're a little bit out of the woods as far as him having surgery, massive bills coming in for him.

[1799] But we don't know yet what that means for you.

[1800] But it looks like you're going to, you know for sure you're going to be hitting that $10 ,000 out -of -pocket max.

[1801] What does it look like to make sure that that money is piled up for you?

[1802] And is there any part of this that you would be having to go out?

[1803] outside of your normal insurance provision in order to receive care.

[1804] So those would be the two questions and the two kind of boxes I'd want to check right away to just to put a little bit more information around what's going on.

[1805] Because if we say, listen, it's $10 ,000, just be prepared for $10 ,000 a year, then that's something that you guys can put away for and start thinking about what that looks like and start working out plans with your provider in order to make that work.

[1806] Is this a high deductible health care plan?

[1807] Yes, it is.

[1808] And do you have an HSA attached to it then?

[1809] I do.

[1810] Okay.

[1811] You may want to max that HSA out every year as a part of your wealth building strategy, as a part of your sort of tax advantage strategy, because of the triple tax savings with that HSA, and the fact that you guys are probably going to use it every year.

[1812] Okay.

[1813] And so that will at least, you know, you'll basically save your tax rate on your medical bills by putting it through the HSA and spending out of it.

[1814] there.

[1815] Okay.

[1816] Do both of you have life insurance?

[1817] We only have it on me. Unfortunately, we married a little later than most people, and his health did not allow him us to get anything that actually could be affordable for life insurance.

[1818] Okay.

[1819] And because I'm the primary income for the family, we got life insurance on me. It is term life insurance.

[1820] Okay, good.

[1821] It costs about $60 a month.

[1822] Are you guys self -insured at this point?

[1823] aside from my life insurance yes so you have the house paid for how much is the house worth 350 great and what's in your nest eggs combined all the retirement accounts I was adding it up I believe it's somewhere close to about 900 great okay excellent and that's on top of your emergency fund how much is in there um that was including the emergency fund.

[1824] I have a money market account that has about 100 in it, and that's more than enough of an emergency fund for an entire year.

[1825] So I want you to breathe easy knowing that you guys have done such an incredible job setting yourselves up for a chaotic life moment like this.

[1826] And so while it's scary, the actual financial part, I have total faith in hoping.

[1827] You guys have done an amazing job on that front.

[1828] And so nothing's going to, as long as you have this health insurance in place, Nothing's going to tank you guys financially.

[1829] So only to sleep easier knowing that financially, you're going to get through this.

[1830] I mean, you guys are baby steps millionaires.

[1831] You've done a really good job on that front.

[1832] Do you guys have kids?

[1833] No, we can't have kids.

[1834] We've never blessed, but that's okay.

[1835] We have each other.

[1836] You do.

[1837] Listen, to George's point, financially, you guys are okay.

[1838] You guys are going to be in our thoughts and prayers for sure.

[1839] This is a really tough season, but it's just a season.

[1840] and there's going to be some joy on the other side of this.

[1841] I'm believing that for you guys.

[1842] And we're going to give to you a year of every dollar premium.

[1843] I hope that helps with your budgeting experience as you lay out all of your expenses and the income and you have all the bank transactions coming in and the paycheck planning tool.

[1844] I hope that gives you some peace just to look at the numbers and that becomes your sort of safety to go, we're going to be okay.

[1845] The budget said so.

[1846] And that's a big help.

[1847] So hang on the line.

[1848] Austin will hook you up with a year of every dollar premium.

[1849] wishing the best for you guys.

[1850] yes definitely that's tough but this this is why we do and this is a huge part of why we teach what we teach because it's not if a storm's going to come it's when a storm is going to come and you don't know what the nature of that storm is going to be you don't know if it's going to be with your marriage or with your health or with your children or with your job but we do know george that money touches everything like it touches every part of our life and when your money is in disarray and then you face one of those storms in life, it just causes more and more chaos, right?

[1851] It makes something just feel like you can't get through it.

[1852] But when your money is on point, that's one thing that you can go, okay, I've done that, check that box.

[1853] Now we can focus on the things that matter.

[1854] And in this case, it's their health, you know, focusing on getting well and doing what they need to, you know, see it through to the other side.

[1855] Yes.

[1856] And a lot of people, Jade, they go, well, I'll get the will done next year.

[1857] I'll pay off the debt someday.

[1858] But man, life is short.

[1859] You only live once.

[1860] Yolo is true.

[1861] And so get your act together now because you simply don't know what's coming down the line.

[1862] So if you don't have a will, if you are an adult and you don't have a will, get it done today.

[1863] We have friends at Mama Bear Legal Forms.

[1864] You can knock this out in 20 minutes.

[1865] They give you six months to complete it.

[1866] It's affordable.

[1867] We've got our code.

[1868] So you can check them out when it comes to term life insurance.

[1869] It's very affordable.

[1870] Get it while you're healthy.

[1871] Get it while you're young from our friends at Xander Insurance.

[1872] All of this stuff matters.

[1873] financial if you need good health insurance in place they can help you find that ramesyslution dot com slash health don't leave this up to chance your life is too important you only live once so let's make the most of it and get our finances in order and uh sarah's a great example of that we're we're praying and thinking of you guys as you go through this and we hope that you call us back with some great news yeah and all that you said george that is really you loving your family well this is how you take care of the people who love you and you love them and they depend on you to do this.

[1874] Do it today.

[1875] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1876] You're listening to the Ramsey Show.

[1877] Thank you for listening to the Ramsey Show.

[1878] I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by George Camel.

[1879] Our scripture and quote of the day says this, walk with the wise and become wise.

[1880] For a companion of fools suffers harm.

[1881] That's Proverbs 1320.

[1882] Then Bon Jovi said this.

[1883] He said, don't get too comfortable with who you are at any given time.

[1884] You may miss the opportunity to become who you want to be.

[1885] I dig that.

[1886] And by the way, hey, thanks for listening to the show.

[1887] When you guys listen, obviously, it gives us jobs, George, because if there weren't listeners, we wouldn't be here.

[1888] But if this show's done anything for you, be sure to like it, subscribe it, share it with a friend, share it with a family member.

[1889] It just spreads that life change all over the place and honestly all over the internet, because there's a lot of crap on the internet, George.

[1890] We got to displace a lot of filth and tomfoolery out there, Jade.

[1891] I know, that's right.

[1892] We need to take up space is what I'm talking about.

[1893] So if you listen to us on a podcast, share it with somebody.

[1894] If you like the YouTube, you know, make sure you like it.

[1895] Make sure you subscribe it when you do that.

[1896] It just fluffs it up and everybody gets to see it.

[1897] And it takes up more space and we want something positive out there.

[1898] Spread the love.

[1899] Something that's giving you hope, something that will give other people hope in this crazy world, this madness that's going on.

[1900] We need a little bit of light, a little bit of hope.

[1901] All right.

[1902] Let's go over to Becky, who's in Kansas City, Missouri.

[1903] What's going on?

[1904] Becky.

[1905] Hi.

[1906] Hey, what's up?

[1907] Hi.

[1908] So, I have a question.

[1909] My husband has been transferred to the West Coast with his job, and we have a home that we just love, and we are about two -thirds paid off.

[1910] Okay.

[1911] And we're struggling with, do we keep it?

[1912] Because this is essentially where we want to retire.

[1913] But the rent on the West Coast, which the rent is like twice our mortgage.

[1914] Yikes.

[1915] Or, yes.

[1916] Or do we pay it off?

[1917] Because we have money in investments to pay it off, but our stock market right now is doing really well.

[1918] And it has more a higher rate of return than the interest on our mortgage payment.

[1919] What kind of money is that?

[1920] Is it your retirement that you're talking about?

[1921] No, it's not a 401K or anything.

[1922] It's we received an inheritance and a small one and we invested it.

[1923] And it's getting a good rate of.

[1924] return.

[1925] How much is it?

[1926] What's it at?

[1927] It's at how much is the inheritance or the rate of return?

[1928] The inheritance?

[1929] Inheritance, it was half a million, and we invested half of that and left the rest in cash.

[1930] Okay, so you've got 250 invested in $2 .50 in cash, just in high yield?

[1931] Yeah.

[1932] Okay.

[1933] What's left on the mortgage?

[1934] 290.

[1935] Wonderful.

[1936] Well, I don't love the idea of hanging on to a residents across the country when you don't even know what life's going to look like and are you going to be purchasing on the west coast this a long -term move no it's we're here for six to 10 years at the most that's long term and then I mean I feel like on the west coast you're going to be in the west so let's say you're in the west coastal 2034 yeah I would want to purchase a spot over there and in that case I would just I mean you because you're going to move is this happening you you know, next week?

[1937] It's happening within the next few months, yeah.

[1938] Okay.

[1939] Well, because of that, I mean, paying off the mortgage versus not is, you know, I would sell the property regardless and use all of that plus your savings in the investments to purchase a property on the West Coast.

[1940] I would do the same.

[1941] Versus renting and paying double your mortgage for that because the same thing's going to happen.

[1942] The real estate on the West Coast, it'll probably appreciate too.

[1943] And later on, when it comes to retirement, you can buy whatever dream home you'd like back in, you know, the Kansas City area.

[1944] It may not be the exact home, and I know you love this home, but you're going to be a different person 10 years from now.

[1945] Exactly.

[1946] And what's desirable will be totally different.

[1947] I mean, there was a time where we liked Formica countertops and lots of walls.

[1948] Yeah.

[1949] Wood paneling, you know.

[1950] So you'll still have to grieve it.

[1951] You know, a home is still a real special place and the memories that were made there.

[1952] But the actual, the countertop and the layout, I mean, you, we can always find something beautiful down the road.

[1953] So I would sell the property.

[1954] I would not hang on to it.

[1955] And I would put all of that money, the equity from the sale of your home plus the investments and buy a property to lower your mortgage or even paying cash.

[1956] That would be my goal and to get that next property paid for.

[1957] That's going to set you guys up really well over the next several years.

[1958] Very good question.

[1959] Thanks for the call.

[1960] That's a good one.

[1961] Yeah, whenever you're moving, I think that's the hard part, George.

[1962] People want to keep, it's like, oh, but it's doing so well.

[1963] or maybe you even fixed it up like you put money into the property that's the hardest and you have to let it go we can rent it and make great money yeah and then you come back to it 10 years later you're like this is not the house that i left as dave says some guy changed the oil on the harley in the living room oh 100 % you're like oh gosh listen before sam and i moved here to nashville you know we were living in south florida and we had put so much money in renovations cash renovations too into our home we made it just the way we liked it and of course we moved here and it was so hard to get rid of it and there is that piece in your brain that's like, oh, I wish I could keep it.

[1964] You know, maybe I could rent it out, which, I mean, no way.

[1965] But just six months later, we went back to visit South Florida and saw the house.

[1966] And I was like, this is not her house anymore.

[1967] Like, already, whoever bought it was renting it out.

[1968] And already it was a different house.

[1969] Like, already the weeds were all grown up.

[1970] Like, I was peeking the window and you're like, why would you buy that couch?

[1971] Like, why would you put that couch in there?

[1972] So it just, it's not the same house as all what I'm saying.

[1973] George, let's go take another phone call.

[1974] I think we can make it.

[1975] Let's see, we got Mary, who's in San Antonio, Texas.

[1976] What's going on, Mary?

[1977] Hi, hi.

[1978] Yes, I just have a quick question.

[1979] I'm getting ready to do a bunch of renovations in my home, painting and exterior and interior and some flooring in my kitchen.

[1980] And so I'm just wondering which is the best route for me to go to get that money to pay for it.

[1981] So I didn't know.

[1982] whether to go helock or pull for my retirement and then pay taxes on that because it'll be marked as income.

[1983] Yeah, you're not 60 yet?

[1984] I am 63.

[1985] Okay.

[1986] So what do you mean marked as tax?

[1987] You're saying because it's in a traditional account?

[1988] Right.

[1989] I rolled over, because I am retired, and so I rolled over about $50 ,000 into a retirement fund that it's gain, it's in the market, I guess.

[1990] So it's growing.

[1991] Well, I definitely don't want you to do the HELOC because that's, you're taking on debt, you're moving backwards, you're putting the home at risk.

[1992] And so that's a real bad move, even though it looks real attractive for a lot of people who have equity in their homes to go, I'll just make, have a credit card attached to my house and go back into debt.

[1993] So that's not a good option.

[1994] Do you not have the money to cash flow this and just pay for the renovations outright without tapping into retirement?

[1995] No, because I'm probably looking at around 15 to 20 ,000.

[1996] Do you have an emergency fund?

[1997] What do you have in savings?

[1998] That what I have, that 50 ,000 is probably about what I have.

[1999] What's in your nest egg?

[2000] Like, what are you planning on retiring off of?

[2001] Well, I receive a pension.

[2002] So, I mean, I'm living off my pension and then social, So, I mean, I get a good monthly income.

[2003] So between those two, how much do you get a month from the pension and Social Security?

[2004] About 45 a month.

[2005] $4 ,500.

[2006] And then what are your monthly expenses?

[2007] Oh, gosh.

[2008] What's the house and everything else?

[2009] Food, utilities, insurance.

[2010] Well, can I just clarify real quick?

[2011] I'm like $3 ,000.

[2012] Okay.

[2013] Okay.

[2014] Do you still have a mortgage?

[2015] Do you still have a mortgage payment?

[2016] I do.

[2017] I do.

[2018] I refinanced a few years ago.

[2019] And, I mean, it's a long story why I had to do that.

[2020] But, you know, divorce and, you know, things happened.

[2021] And I needed the money.

[2022] So what do you owe?

[2023] What do you owe?

[2024] On this mortgage?

[2025] About 100 ,000.

[2026] Okay.

[2027] And can I just ask what you're wanting to do?

[2028] These are just, these are cosmetic things that you want, right?

[2029] They're not necessarily.

[2030] city.

[2031] It sounds like painting, floors.

[2032] Well, like the house is 30 years old and I haven't painted it at all.

[2033] So it's, it needs the upgrades.

[2034] Plus the flooring in my kitchen, I had to have my house leveled.

[2035] Okay.

[2036] Because it's on a cement foundation.

[2037] So I had, so right now I have patches of cement in my kitchen floor because they had to drill through it.

[2038] I would only do whatever's necessary and I would use your cash flow.

[2039] If your expenses are three grand, you got an extra $1 ,500, start saving that, putting that aside, and start cash flowing these as you can.

[2040] But I wouldn't tap in to anything else.

[2041] This is a cautionary tale, guys.

[2042] We never want to, we never want to borrow against our home.

[2043] The goal is to have that home paid off by the time we enter into retirement so that we have that peace.

[2044] And we're really just able to live our life and enjoy it to the fullest.

[2045] All right.

[2046] Cautionary tale, guys.

[2047] This is The Ramsey Show.

[2048] Hey, guys, I'm Rachel.

[2049] And I'm George.

[2050] And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show.

[2051] And do we have a surprise for you?

[2052] Yep.

[2053] We have our very own show, Smart Money Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and of course, money.

[2054] George, it's a great show.

[2055] And what else do we talk about?

[2056] So much, Rachel.

[2057] Not enough.

[2058] And yet too much.

[2059] We talk about guilt tipping because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting.

[2060] I'm glad you're taking such a stand.

[2061] And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about Disney adults.

[2062] Oh, George.

[2063] Why is it a thing?

[2064] Listen, some adults still find the magic.

[2065] Sure.

[2066] We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math.

[2067] And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast.

[2068] Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys.

[2069] It's pretty fun.

[2070] We keep you relevant, is what I'm trying to say.

[2071] We help you out.

[2072] So pull up a chair to the happy hour.

[2073] You wish your friends we're having.

[2074] We promise you won't regret it.

[2075] And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.

[2076] We will.

[2077] We're great friends.

[2078] So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.