#761 - Bas Rutten

[0] Dum, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, and we're live.

[1] Unfortunately, Marl Rinalo is deathly ill, and he cannot make it here.

[2] But the great boss Routin, boom, Basito, yes.

[3] El Guapo, is here.

[4] Former UFC heavyweight champion and your friend Kevin Randleman.

[5] Unfortunately, the guy you won the title from passed away recently.

[6] Yeah.

[7] That was sad, huh?

[8] Yeah, the conspiracy theory was already, I saw online because he didn't, Maro didn't do W. yesterday evening so they said he was at the funeral of Kevin Rennelman I said no that's not true he's really sick at home but yeah that was the that was the craziest news we found out after we just did our podcast yeah and then we went online and um what happened to him he got sick he got sick pneumonia and then his heart gave out they couldn't go to revive him well he had staff infection worse than anybody I've ever seen in my life did you ever see some of the pictures you know what I said to people if you if you use smokeless the You know, that little box, you could literally put in that hole that he had in his chest.

[9] Remember that?

[10] Oh, yeah.

[11] It was insane.

[12] Well, we'll show the picture.

[13] Jamie, see if you can find the picture, Kevin Randleman, Staff Infection.

[14] I never knew that he could get this bad.

[15] But he had holes in his body where you could look in and you see all the tissue and tendons.

[16] I mean, it's just incredible.

[17] Did you see it there, Jamie?

[18] I mean, I'm talking like a fifth -sized hole.

[19] It was crazy.

[20] You know, this guy survived him.

[21] It's good thing as well.

[22] Look at that.

[23] Oof.

[24] It's just incredible.

[25] I just don't.

[26] And he fought after this too, by the way.

[27] Yeah.

[28] He got that fixed up and he fought afterwards.

[29] But when your body is that compromised from something like that, I'm assuming that was Mersa, the medication -resistant self -infection.

[30] That stuff is real dangerous and people die from it all the time.

[31] Look at his leg, too.

[32] Look how swollen his ankle and his foot is.

[33] Oh, my God.

[34] Very scary.

[35] God, and Kevin Renneman, in his prime, I mean, what a stud, what a specimen that guy was, to see him that compromised.

[36] I mean, I don't know if he just ignored it and it just kept getting worse and worse.

[37] I don't know what happened.

[38] I don't know either, you know, but I have the feeling that it's like with all the fighters that were pretty much the same.

[39] You probably is the same as well.

[40] You know, you have something.

[41] You feel bad.

[42] You know, your lungs.

[43] Oh, everything is hurting.

[44] Whatever, man. You know, I'll take care of that tomorrow once it gets worse.

[45] not realizing because we're pushing all the limits all the time that at the moment you're feeling it's probably really bad already you should check it out but you know just push it away let's get rid of my let's do my work first and then we'll take care of that later and it was too late that's that's the feeling I have that that is a problem with mental toughness and some fighters they just keep pushing through injuries and I've always suspected that that might be the case with Kane why Kane keeps getting injured over and over again and now that you know he's starting to get some serious injuries where he's had back surgery now, both shoulders surgery, knee surgery.

[46] I mean, this is a guy in his prime.

[47] I mean, I think Kane is only like 33 or something like that, right?

[48] He should be regenerating like this, like nothing.

[49] As a heavyweight, that's your prime.

[50] The early 30s for heavyweights are generally when they really come into their own.

[51] And to see him constantly injured, I've always suspected it's just his mental toughness is almost like a burden because he pushes through everything.

[52] You know, Chris Weidman, I think the same thing with his knees.

[53] He's had some serious knee problems.

[54] It's because they, you know, they have the problem.

[55] They just go, fuck it.

[56] Let's just keep going.

[57] And they can block out pain in a way that, you know, most people, they get a serious knee injury.

[58] They go, boy, I got to go to the doctor, got to get this checked out.

[59] Not when you're in the middle of camp and you're defending your title.

[60] You fucking keep pushing through it.

[61] Yeah, I'm telling all my students now, because I used to be exactly like all the other guys.

[62] I say, if you have an injury and the doctor tells you, take two months out.

[63] Take four months off.

[64] That's my advice now.

[65] Take double the amount of everybody does the opposite.

[66] Two months becomes one month or three weeks.

[67] Don't do that because later in life, like what happened with me, it will backfire for you.

[68] It's such a good piece of advice right there because so many guys, especially ACL surgeries, how many times have we seen guys get their knee reconstructed and then they try to get back on the mat too quick and pop?

[69] And the new knee blows out again and you're looking at another six to nine months.

[70] it's so so common Dominic Cruz and Benji Reddack he had like also like from a corpse from an illegal corpse he had something in his knee An illegal course They had the FBI Yeah It was illegally obtained It was He got a letter from the FBI He almost lost his leg And then he had this He went to dinner with him One time he had a machine on him That filtered his blood Everywhere he went He got this crazy infection And then years later He gets a letter from the FBI and it was a guy who was illegally handled in donors in whatever they need for knees and for everything like organs and they found that guy yeah and it was from a cadaver that was infected and that's why he had all that problem yeah it was really crazy did he get a discount or something like that yeah maybe later you know just write it down rain check for if the other knee happens benjuratic is a guy a lot of people forgot about it was a fucking talented guy you know I was talented I At the time when they called me crazy, when Anderson Silva was at his peak of his career, I said, if I have six months with Benji and he would listen to me because sometimes he gets that ego that, oh, I can strike with him.

[71] No, you know, you don't need to.

[72] Take him down, then strike him, you know, because he would knock people out with one punch.

[73] This guy hit so hard, he would hurt my hands on the focus mitt.

[74] Wow.

[75] I'm the craziest power he has.

[76] And I'm telling you, his wrestling was so good, and he would just take him down and just beat him up.

[77] I guarantee that.

[78] That's how powerful he was.

[79] Wow.

[80] You know, there's a lot of guys that don't realize their potential.

[81] And Benji Radick was one of those guys that people would always talk about in the gym.

[82] You know, they say, like, boy, if he could figure out how to put it all together.

[83] We did a few times at the IFL.

[84] And when he was training for the anacondos, he was there.

[85] Yeah.

[86] And then he started listening.

[87] And people go like, man, you transformed him into a kickbox.

[88] You know, he's just listening at this moment.

[89] But when you phase another guy, like, for instance, he fought Scott Smith, you know, And I told him, I said, don't brawl with the guy.

[90] Yeah, but are people going to think I don't want to?

[91] I said, well, blame it all me. Tell him that I said, so otherwise I'm not going to train you anymore.

[92] And, of course, the fight starts, Smith comes out, and he starts brawling with the guy.

[93] That's what the guy does.

[94] Don't do this.

[95] It's like with Van der Leigh Silver.

[96] Don't brawl with the guy, you know.

[97] You've got to pick him apart from the outside and shoot, take him down.

[98] He got in trouble at the end of the first round.

[99] Then he took him down, hit him once.

[100] It was the end of the round, but almost had Scottsmith.

[101] Second round, exactly the same thing.

[102] I lost my voice.

[103] I just stopped yelling.

[104] I said, why don't you take him down?

[105] Take him down.

[106] Beat him up, knock him out.

[107] It's really that easy for you.

[108] Do it.

[109] But he didn't.

[110] He goes a funny thing when guys want to beat guys at their own game or they want to show that they're not afraid to stand with people.

[111] It's hard.

[112] It's hard to, you know, that fucking thing that makes you great in the first place, that makes you a fighter in the first place, a lot of times can bite you in the ass.

[113] Just don't do what the other person is best at.

[114] If there's one thing he's weaker than yours, go to that, whatever it is.

[115] Whether it's ground, whether it was striking.

[116] Well, that was one thing that GSP was always so good at.

[117] He was always so good at imposing his strengths.

[118] Like, whatever the guy was, if a guy was good at wrestling, he would try to keep the fight standing.

[119] If a guy was good at standing, he would take him down.

[120] You know, I mean, GSP was so good at that.

[121] And being unpredictable, too, as to what his approach was going to be, he thought he was going to strike, and then he's going to take you down.

[122] You think he's going to take you down.

[123] and then he's going to kick you.

[124] He was like the La Jolla.

[125] The La Jolla, every time when he fought, he had new techniques.

[126] He used new combinations.

[127] And the same thing happened with GSP.

[128] Every time you saw him, Josh Koshak, I remember the fight.

[129] It was a jab and was a spinning back kick to the body.

[130] Yeah.

[131] You know, and he nailed it over and over again.

[132] You knew that for the six weeks, eight weeks, whatever he was training, they worked on that.

[133] You know, for the rest, you ad lib a little bit, what you normally do.

[134] But, you know, just pepper them.

[135] Yeah, the Josh Kostek fight, man. And that was an ugly one that when his eyes swole up like that, Josh was in a seriously bad shape after that.

[136] He couldn't fly after that fight.

[137] Yeah.

[138] That was, you know, that was one where they had a drive from, I think they had that fight in Toronto.

[139] Was it Toronto or Montreal?

[140] I think that was Toronto, right?

[141] No, no, that was, I believe it was Montreal because I think Toronto was Jake Shields.

[142] That was the big one at the Roger Center, right?

[143] I have no clue.

[144] I think so.

[145] Either way, he was in Canada, and he had a drive down to Boston, and I believe he had a stay, there for a couple weeks before he could even fly back home to San Jose.

[146] Wow.

[147] So you think that will blow up in the air as well?

[148] I guess, I don't know.

[149] It was so bad.

[150] It was an orbital fracture.

[151] There's a picture of it right there.

[152] And that's after the fight.

[153] But it was so bad that they had to operate on it.

[154] And those blowout fractures of the eyes apparently are extremely painful and very dangerous too because it's the bone behind the eye that gets broken.

[155] So they have to go in behind the eye.

[156] and repair that bone.

[157] And sometimes when they do that, your eyeball is never the same again.

[158] It looks different.

[159] Like, do you remember Bob Sapp after K -K -O -K -P hit him?

[160] In Pride, I believe you called that fight.

[161] I called that fight.

[162] Yeah, I was there.

[163] Remember K -K -K -K -Wop?

[164] Was it Pride or was it K -1?

[165] No, that was Pride.

[166] Oh, wait a minute.

[167] Maybe it was King Boxing.

[168] You know, it was because I was actually training Bob Zabal, whatever you call it training.

[169] I trained him one and a half time.

[170] The rest he was doing interviews.

[171] Oh, really?

[172] I go, dude, this guy, right?

[173] Now in Croatia, he's kicking her back.

[174] He wants to kill you because you're on the top of the world right now.

[175] He just beat Host twice.

[176] Yeah.

[177] Ernesto Hoost.

[178] That is crazy that he beat him.

[179] So, yeah, then he came to train with me because I told him before the fight with Hoost.

[180] He said, if you would fight me, where would you go for?

[181] I go for body shots because your stamina.

[182] And I kick your knees instead of your legs.

[183] I kick your knees because you have to carry their weight all the time.

[184] Huss dropped him two or three times with the liver shot.

[185] so after that he came he said I really want to train with you I said okay well then I'm going to be in Japan anyway so let's work out but yeah he was too busy doing media I said don't do that he was such a superstar in Japan he had to capitalize the amount of money he was able to make I don't think people in America realize how big for those few years Bob Sapp got in Japan you have no clue we went out to dinner with him and they have to close the the restaurant and have to let him out at the back because you see one person in the front, two, four, boom, and there was a whole group, couldn't get out anymore.

[186] You couldn't go through the lobby of the hotel.

[187] And it's not like he can blend in.

[188] No, a 375 pound man. He was huge.

[189] He was, this was in the Tokyo Post.

[190] They had a picture of him on the cover coming out of like a massage place.

[191] And he saw these little girls like him, and he's the mountain of a man stands there.

[192] And all these little They had that little black thing in front of their eyes.

[193] You know that they do so you don't know who that person is.

[194] Right, right.

[195] And he was upset.

[196] He said, why didn't they put one in front of my eyes?

[197] I go, yeah.

[198] Even if they blocked your whole ad off.

[199] That's what I mean.

[200] People got to go, uh, what do you think that is?

[201] It was hilarious.

[202] Well, when he was fighting in pride, I mean, he was like a character from a movie.

[203] He was like the boss in a video game.

[204] Remember?

[205] Oh, yeah.

[206] God.

[207] It was so hilarious.

[208] He did all these dances, the Bob Saab dance, and they got every show.

[209] He was in every show.

[210] And, yeah, they just love him.

[211] He's a freak.

[212] And you know what?

[213] The first time when he fought against Nogera, I go, dude, we're going to hear from this guy.

[214] He was doing really well against a season guy like Nogera.

[215] Oh, yeah.

[216] Eventually, okay, he lost, but he just started.

[217] Yeah.

[218] I think if he would have kept focusing on the same training that he did at the time, it would have been a much, much tougher guy.

[219] because he had a lot of talent, physically, at least.

[220] Well, he was just so fucking big, too.

[221] He was so big.

[222] Maurice was training him at that time.

[223] Maurice Smith was working with a...

[224] Medium and Marikers.

[225] They were working with his kickboxing, and they were really trying to put some technique to all that muscle.

[226] But, you know, you're talking about a guy who legitimately was 375 pounds with abs.

[227] I mean, he was, like, the greatest science project in the history of performance -enhancing drugs.

[228] Right?

[229] Yeah.

[230] I mean, is there ever been a project?

[231] He has the blueprint.

[232] He's like, this is as far as you could push it before you fucking explode, before your skin just explodes like a water balloon.

[233] Oh, man. He was so big.

[234] In the past, you see them with these guys who use a lot, you know, they always are around the fighters.

[235] They start to become purple, you know?

[236] And then suddenly you hear they died of a heart attack or something.

[237] I wonder what happened there.

[238] You know?

[239] Well, he made it through.

[240] He survived.

[241] And then he started just quick tapping.

[242] He started doing all these fights where he would get hit.

[243] He would go in hard, and if it didn't work out, he would just tap.

[244] He fought a bunch of guys like that, where he would start off the fight really well and then wind up tapping out.

[245] And then he would fight again in like three weeks and do the same thing.

[246] It just kept doing it, living off of the name that he had created while he was in pride.

[247] That's a very sad thing.

[248] For me, that's almost the same as going on the street and back for money.

[249] It really is to me. I think that is, and he's such a good guy.

[250] If you meet him also, it's very, very nice, trying to help people, a great guy.

[251] But, yeah, I don't like that.

[252] It's the same when Kerr, you know, I saw that special or a thing that they did on him that he sells cars now.

[253] You know, it's hard to look at that because especially he knew where he was in the past.

[254] And that all is gone now.

[255] You know, it's, you can be really high, but you can fall really low.

[256] Yeah.

[257] You know, so fight us saying that.

[258] They said, it's so great to fight.

[259] He says, but when you're high, you're high, you know, when you're high, you know, when you win but when the lows are there it's really low as well the difference is too much well actually look what just came out with Alan and Rhonda yeah I mean she broke down just thinking about and I know it's a moment that they're there so everybody would have that for a few seconds but yeah it will get you down a big loss like that I know that after the fight like that night she was just devastated but of course I mean that was a brutal, brutal knockout, and it was a fight where nothing worked.

[260] I mean, just nothing worked.

[261] She went after Holly, and she tried to bully her, and Holly just great footwork, countered her, and that kickboxing and her movement, Holly's movement is the best in all of women's MMMA.

[262] Her footwork and movement, she's so good at getting out of the way, at countering when you're coming in, and the style, the bulldog style of Rondas, especially the way she fought that fight, that night just played right into Holly's hands.

[263] That's it.

[264] She knew exactly where she was going to be all the time, because she just once beat forward.

[265] And that head kick, who, you know, that was one of the things I said after that fight, I'm like, this is, she should take a long time off after that fight.

[266] Because that's the kind of head kick, that's the kind of chaos that it takes a long time to recover from.

[267] You might look fine.

[268] Yeah, you know, you might be able to talk about.

[269] But mentally, and also the brain itself, that kind of an impact, like a high kick like that can really take a long time for everything to heal, for everything to normalize.

[270] Well, Kenny Rice said, he says, now we, because I took my words back, because we're talking about Floyd Mayweather versus Ronda.

[271] I said, well, if it goes to the ground, you know, yeah, I truly believe.

[272] But Kenny said, food work will make sure it's not going to go to the ground.

[273] I go, no, no, no, five rounds, five minutes, 25 minutes, a long time, you know, there will be a clinch one time, but that's exactly what happened.

[274] Yeah, there's a difference, first of all, in fighting in an octagon, which is a huge surface.

[275] Like, if you look at a boxing ring, most people...

[276] Yeah, you can look them up.

[277] Much, much smaller space.

[278] And also, I just don't think Rhonda would try to box a Floyd Mayweather.

[279] I think she thought that she could stand with Holly Holm.

[280] And I think a lot of it's based on Holly's previous performances in the UFC, especially the Raquel Pennington fight.

[281] Raquel Pennington, who's very tough, very, very durable.

[282] And Raquel, I always give her...

[283] I gave her the nickname of the Ear Exploder because she's had so many moments in the fight where you're like, Oh, you scream so loud that you blow people's eardrums out.

[284] Like when she fought Ashley Evan Smith and Bulldog choked her.

[285] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[286] Blood everywhere and she choked her like one second to go.

[287] We were screaming at the end of that fight like, she's out, she's out!

[288] And then she's not.

[289] Yeah.

[290] But Pennington's so tough and fought conservatively against Holly Holme and almost won.

[291] Like that was a split decision, right?

[292] So you look at that fight and you go, oh boy, man, maybe Rondi could stand with her and just go after her the way she went after bitch, go.

[293] Hey, the race she went after Alexis Davis.

[294] But, man, Holly was just on point.

[295] I think it's game planning also.

[296] You know, after that fight with Raquel, that's perfect for her.

[297] Because that means, okay, stay away from the big bombs.

[298] You know, and they know that Rhonda, she's an athlete.

[299] She can hit.

[300] She hit you.

[301] When I saw that, what is the open workout in Brazil.

[302] And I'm one of these guys.

[303] I have always things to say.

[304] Oh, that's not good.

[305] You should prove this.

[306] I'm very critical, and I always, I think to myself, am I too much, is that what am I doing?

[307] But at the moment I saw her training there, and this is not fighting, and I know this doesn't translate to fighting, by hitting the focus mid and hitting the bag, or all that stuff, it looked nearly perfect to me. The rotation of her upper body, the movement afterwards, the move, very Tyson -like also, I really thought, man, yeah, okay, I have nothing to say now.

[308] This looks really good.

[309] I felt the same way.

[310] Yeah, I felt like our hand techniques were on point.

[311] And then when she polished off Betch Koha in the first round, it sort of spoke to that.

[312] Like, okay, well, look, obviously she hits hard, her technique is improving, and she's an elite athlete.

[313] You're talking about an Olympian, you're talking about a person that has that mindset to push forward and figures out a way to get better at everything she does.

[314] But so does Holly.

[315] Yep.

[316] So does Holly.

[317] And Holly has got way better kickboxing skills and way better.

[318] She's got way more diversity in her striking game, whereas Rhonda's just punching.

[319] Knees to the body when she gets close with the clinch, knees to the body, but on the outside, it's just punching, whereas Holly, Holly can head kick you and knock you the fuck out.

[320] And she sets those kicks up, but kicks to the body, she'll throw kicks to the leg.

[321] That Jackson camp, they all like that oblique kick to the thigh.

[322] This is a dangerous kick.

[323] Yeah, it's going to be outlawed, and when somebody's going to snap their knee, it's going to be over.

[324] Do you think so because knee bars aren't outlawed, heel hooks aren't outlawed?

[325] I know, but that's a different thing, you know.

[326] This is, once your leg is a little stretch, and you get hit there, that's it.

[327] A knee bar, or you have to be in Poliaris, you know, but anybody else would just put the knee bar on and give you time to tap.

[328] You won't have that with an oblique kick.

[329] Yeah, I agree.

[330] I mean, but it's so effective right now.

[331] When it's legal, I understand why they're using it because John Jones is so good at it.

[332] You know, Winkle John is one of the best triking coaches in the world.

[333] He really is.

[334] He's so good and so underappreciated because he's such a humble guy.

[335] He's not talking a lot.

[336] he's not bragging he's a very down to earth normal humble guy yeah but the results that that guy's been able to i mean holly's probably one of his best students but of course john jones john jones it's yeah not a freak yeah you know he can change the world he he could be if he's everything if he's now on the straight and narrow and he's just fighting i see this guy nobody's going to beat this guy it's going to be it's going to be hard that's for sure but you know the worry about john is that john's going to fuck himself up because like recently he just got caught driving with no license and no insurance and no registration and you know he lost his license he's got millions of dollars get a fucking driver man and driver yeah but look at tiger woods what happened to him because when all the crap happened with him he mentally he didn't come back from that and i understand this is golf you know but the same as fighting it's a it's a mind game it's really a mind game so can he overstab that i i think he can because jones is young and he knows how good he is but if i were him i would say fight four or five more years, stop.

[337] You're going down in history.

[338] Like, a thousand years from now, they will still talk about you.

[339] If you do it correctly.

[340] Yeah.

[341] Or, you know, he sidetracks and something bad's going to happen to him.

[342] Let's not hope.

[343] Yeah, I hope he pulls it together.

[344] He's a great guy.

[345] I really like John as a person.

[346] I mean, he has his flaws like most people.

[347] And he's young and the amount of pressure that he's on to be the youngest ever UFC champion to have this spectacular career so early in life.

[348] The only loss he had was a disqualification.

[349] That was a bullshit disqualification.

[350] I mean, this stupid rule of 12 to 6 elbows, they got to get rid of that rule.

[351] It's so dumb.

[352] If we don't know what I'm talking about, folks, in the UFC, there's a rule, and it's a crazy rule, that you can't strike someone with an elbow from 12, 12 p .m. to 6 on a clock dial, like going straight down.

[353] And the only reason why you can't do it is because when they were setting up the athletic commissions, the athletic commissions had seen those karate demonstrations on TV where a guy would break a brick with his elbow.

[354] And they said, well, you can't do that.

[355] got to be illegal because someone could die and this is what big john mccarthy told me that he had to talk to these people and he's like okay all right then that one's illegal so that's the only reason why that's still illegal but the great thing is if you're on your back you're allowed to do it because that is north west to east i mean yes it's so stupid it's the dumbest thing ever it's so stupid it's one of the dumbest rules that's still in place yeah oh well that's uh we had a guy in Holland, Hippolyte and Wheat, Orlando Wheat.

[356] These two guys, when they fought each other, they would sell out all the time.

[357] I saw three fights of them, live, because these guys were crazy.

[358] Full tie rules.

[359] And Orlando Wheat and both of them, they would in the clinch, like, jump all the way up and then come down with the elbows to the collarbones, to the head.

[360] They would go, full blast.

[361] Orlando Wheat, who fought in the UFC, fought in the early.

[362] I think UFC 2?

[363] Was it 2 he fought in?

[364] Yeah, against Remcoe Pardul.

[365] Remko Pardul, yeah.

[366] Remko got him in a scarf hole and pounded him out with elbows.

[367] With illegal elbows now.

[368] It is illegal.

[369] It's so true, right?

[370] Well, it might have been legal because it was kind of coming from 12 around the side.

[371] Maybe it was like 12 to 7 or something like that.

[372] Yeah, 11.

[373] 11 to 5 or 1 to 7.

[374] It's up to you what you want to call them.

[375] It's so dumb.

[376] It's so dumb.

[377] You know, I have a problem with a few rules of the UFC, but that's the number one.

[378] That's the number one.

[379] I have also a problem with putting the hand on the ground to stop knees to the head.

[380] I always go, if you have somebody, lift him up and the knee him in the head.

[381] Well, I feel like to a downed opponent, maybe that's a problem when they're up against the cage because you can't get your head out of the way.

[382] Like in pride, one of the crazy things about pride, which I think to this day, and one of the reasons why I was so excited to have Morrow here, too, you guys called the Glory Days.

[383] Oh, man. I mean, some of the wildest fights in the history of the sport where you have stomps, soccer kicks, everything but no elbows no elbows to the ground yeah no I remember fights that they literally have vanilla silver in the corner of or ninja or a shogun you know and they would hold the ropes and then just stomp somebody sculling pretty much it's scary I think that that shouldn't that shouldn't be legal it's like what happened in the past with the Hojir Werta you know at 1FC it's now one championship when you look at that fight you go that was the referee really messed up on that one.

[384] He literally dropped on all fours because he was exhausted and then he got penalty kicked in the face.

[385] That could have been really bad.

[386] Well, I think it was really bad.

[387] I mean, I don't know how much he recovered from that.

[388] I mean, that was a devastating knockout.

[389] And it was also Roger fighting at 170, which is not really his weight class.

[390] It really should be a 155.

[391] And he fought a big...

[392] Who's the Brazilian guy that he fought?

[393] I don't remember his name.

[394] But that guy's a big guy.

[395] And he had Roger Hurt, and then that soccer.

[396] They have, like, a rule at one FC.

[397] I don't know if they still have it, where they'll say, like, open, like where you're allowed to do a stomp or a kick to the downed opponent?

[398] Well, this was a closed.

[399] They should have said.

[400] There's the guy's name, Zoro Babel, Moria.

[401] Man. Zoro Babel.

[402] It was a devastating, devastating, devastating soccer here.

[403] He said, I did not want to throw the kick.

[404] Wow.

[405] Well, then don't.

[406] Why would you do it?

[407] Do it to the body, which will be very dangerous at that moment as well because you're breathing, you're going to crack some ribs, so it could be very dangerous as well.

[408] But you can recover from the crack ribs a lot better than you recover from that.

[409] Step away.

[410] There's no need for that.

[411] I never had that, you know?

[412] It means being aware in the cage and know what you're doing.

[413] You know, if I see a guy's out, it's guys out.

[414] They're not going to hit them extra.

[415] Yeah, well, good for you, man. There's a lot of debate about the old rules of progress.

[416] versus the rules of the UFC, and that was one of the things that happened when Crow Cop started fighting in the UFC and then fought in a cage for the first time against Gonzaga.

[417] Well, you know, he fought Eddie Sanchez first, won that fight, but it's not on his level.

[418] It was not on his level.

[419] And then he fought Gonzaga, and Gonzaga took him down, held him up against the cage, elbowed the shit out of him, and then stood him up and high kicked him.

[420] But he was saying, like, the elbows confused him, like he wasn't used to that, and he also wasn't used to the cage being trapped, whereas the pride ring you could move around like the ropes were there you can get under the ropes you could you never were pinned but you can lock somebody up also in a corner which you cannot do in a cage when I stepped for the first time in the cage I was like oh dude this is this is awesome they can never lock me up this is the biggest thing I've ever seen yeah yeah so yeah I think Gonzaga that fight and I always come back to this I thought it was so smart what he was doing he was constantly throwing a right hand and it didn't even come close to his face like this far and I'm constantly thinking why is he doing that and then it really you know I got oh he's shutting his kick down because Krookop he might think if I just throw right straight like every 20 seconds in front of your face he's going to think if I throw my left at the moment he throws that right straight he's going to knock me out so he shut his whole game down and then he was moving to the left and that was the blueprint to Krookop because after that, everybody started doing it.

[421] Yeah, and it's interesting how Krokoop got his revenge in the rematch in a big way.

[422] Yeah.

[423] With elbows on the ground.

[424] It was kind of ironic.

[425] You know, one of the things that Krokoff was saying before that fight is that he didn't particularly like grappling and he didn't particularly like elbows on the ground.

[426] Meanwhile, that's what won him to fight.

[427] Yep.

[428] The second fight, he won by being on top and the elbows that a real talented striker can throw from the guard.

[429] The difference in those elbows is just unbelievable.

[430] unbelievably devastating.

[431] We saw that in the crow cop fight.

[432] Yeah.

[433] No, he did a really good job with that.

[434] I had a one time, also, somebody armed me, and I got out.

[435] And when I fought him the second time, I didn't want to knock him out.

[436] I wanted to arbor him first.

[437] And I remembered that arm bar him, but it was with the rope escapes there.

[438] I had him, and then he rober escapes, and I told him, I said, Oh, so this is pancreas.

[439] This is pancreas.

[440] I said, now you got it back.

[441] And then later on, I heel -hooked him, actually.

[442] Well, pancreas had crazy rules.

[443] and you were the first guy to figure those rules out and I loved watching you fight back then because it was open hand striking with the hands but kicks so like you were the first guy that I ever saw a fight in that first of all that kicks so fucking hard you could see when you would slam these guys with these kicks they'd be like oh this is a completely different experience but also you weren't slapping you would how the fuck do you pull your hand back so far yeah I got very limber hands hit the bone yeah you were pulling your hand way back and throwing straight punches and hooks and uppercuts.

[444] Like when you fought Funaki, you were throwing uppercut palms strikes like a punch, like with the same motion.

[445] Nobody does this still.

[446] Look, if I'm in the guard and I just leave my hand like this, see?

[447] Mm -hmm.

[448] Just slide over his chest in the face.

[449] Why is nobody doing this?

[450] Why is nobody doing this?

[451] Just leave it here, just hit him a little bit, look away.

[452] Because most of the time when you look away, they think, and then bunk, just hit him in the face.

[453] Yeah, like flat hand on the center of the chest and just shove it up.

[454] Shove it over the chest.

[455] Yeah, that does make sense.

[456] That does make sense.

[457] But wouldn't that work with a punch as well?

[458] Yeah, but you have more space with a palm.

[459] Right.

[460] Like on this distance, this is much shorter than this.

[461] This is like an extra 15%, which will make a lot of difference on that distance.

[462] That's a very good point.

[463] Like, it's another five or six inches at least.

[464] Listen, that's why I never understood nobody's throwing palm strikes now.

[465] A left hook right straight combination, right in boxing.

[466] It's a dumb combination if you really think about it.

[467] If it's a short left hook, I'm way too close for my straight punch.

[468] It has no power.

[469] I can't stretch my arm.

[470] But if I do a palm strike and then a straight punch, now I got space for my straight punch.

[471] It's much harder.

[472] So why is nobody doing that?

[473] Now I do clothes lines.

[474] I posted a thing on Facebook like a year ago.

[475] When I hit a bag with a clothes line, I don't think people can imitate me my weight with a kick like that.

[476] They can kick, and then I say, okay, now I show a close line.

[477] You see the back folding around my whole arm is the craziest thing.

[478] You can try to block whatever you want.

[479] If I close line you, if you stand still, it goes straight through everything.

[480] I guarantee you to knock you out.

[481] Why is that?

[482] Why is a close line so powerful?

[483] It is so powerful because you can really lock it up.

[484] Don't stretch your arm because if you miss time and you hit your, you're going to hyper -extant.

[485] But you can drag your whole body weight in there because you can lock it up.

[486] And your legs are planted on the ground.

[487] Oh, yeah.

[488] So you're getting all that hip torque in there?

[489] It is such a powerful strike.

[490] And also with the clinch, even when they stand like this, if I do this, it loops around the defense and it's the back of the head still the legal part because it's outside the Mohawk.

[491] Well, even the back of the head standing never seems to get, like in boxing, they get penalized for punching the back of the head.

[492] Like people say no rabbit punches.

[493] But when you think about a head kick, a lot of head kicks, especially the ones that go over the shoulder, they're the back of the head.

[494] And it's legal.

[495] And that's why they're effective.

[496] And that's why it was so effective with me, with pancreas, I hit behind the ear.

[497] If you look at Mike Tyson's fights, you know, I don't know how he did it, but he did it.

[498] He was always the shorter guy.

[499] But if you see him hooking somebody, he hits almost the back of the head.

[500] He's got very short hooks.

[501] Now, the body, it's ready for impact from the front and from the side because you're used to it.

[502] Well, if you can see the punch coming.

[503] The behind, I always tell people, just do with the palm, just do this to the back of your head and see what happens.

[504] Like just me doing this, it's already going to go, you're not ready for that.

[505] So you can only imagine if you go, it hit as hard as you can behind the ear, it's a sweet, it's a sweet punch.

[506] I can't understand everybody's doing it.

[507] Is the back of the head that much more dangerous?

[508] Oh, do this, do this.

[509] But I mean, is it that much more dangerous?

[510] I mean, should it be outlawed?

[511] Just behind the ear.

[512] Just do that.

[513] Oh, yeah.

[514] Right?

[515] You got, mm -hmm.

[516] Yeah.

[517] Remember when Henzo fought in WorldCom combat against that judo guy I forget Oh the touch guy Yeah He got his back And spikers Spikers Spikers I train with him also He got his back and just If you can elbow the back of the head Rear naked chokes are out the window Yeah yeah Everybody's just going to bang Bang bang To the back of the head And it's almost more effective than a rear naked choke Because guys are just going to They're just going to try to cover up Yeah and eventually One will slip through It's interesting to me that there's some really effective martial arts techniques that are outlawed, and that's one of them.

[518] I mean, you can't hit that spot.

[519] It's kind of strange because in a self -defense situation or in actual martial arts, if you think about what is the most effective technique to use, knees to the ground are very effective to a head on a down opponent, elbows to the back of the head are very effective.

[520] But are they that much more dangerous?

[521] Should they be outlawed?

[522] Oh, here's the video.

[523] Yeah, Henzo got it.

[524] Oh, look at this.

[525] Boom, boom.

[526] I mean, no need to change.

[527] choke but he me he choked him anyway i think yeah and i was gonna step on his head right yeah he smashed him he smashed that dude well that guy here's the deal henzo who's a very nice guy by the way this fucking guy was calling henso all throughout the night and fucking with him look at he stepped on his head as he walked off of him yeah he's out cold hensow uh was in his hotel room and this guy kept calling him and fucking with him he just didn't want him to have any sleep so he just kept ringing his phone and henzel was like oh okay all right yeah just wait mother Yeah.

[528] It's so funny when you see a guy like Hansen, he's always smiling, you know, don't, don't do it.

[529] What's wrong with people?

[530] He's really nice.

[531] He smiles all the time.

[532] Yeah, but he does the same thing when he kicks you in the bowl.

[533] You know, he's, I mean, watch out.

[534] Did you ever see that Twitter sequence that Henzo put online where he beat the shit out of these muggers in New York City?

[535] These guys in New York City tried to mug Henzo Gracie, not knowing who was.

[536] So Henzo, not only beat the fuck out of him.

[537] of them.

[538] He fouled them and kept beating the fuck out of them and was making all these pushes.

[539] Thank you Mayor Bloomberg for making so safe New York City.

[540] So I don't have to worry about guns.

[541] This to me is a pleasure.

[542] No, you already starts with, there's two guys following me. They probably want to rob me or something.

[543] And then he makes it into a game.

[544] He's like, oh yeah, this is really happening.

[545] I'm so excited.

[546] What a huge fuck up on their part.

[547] Yeah.

[548] Well, he had one.

[549] We were, Kenny Reisen and I, we were somewhere.

[550] This is not that long ago.

[551] And he was also, he was walking on the street and two guys, same thing.

[552] He came to tell the story.

[553] And he dropped the biggest guy where he said, I just picked the biggest guy, knocked him.

[554] And while he kept walking, the police came.

[555] They stopped.

[556] Is there any trouble?

[557] And he looks at the guys.

[558] And the guys go, no, no, there's no any trouble.

[559] And he just got fucking.

[560] He said, you just picked the wrong guy.

[561] That's what he told him.

[562] They fucked up.

[563] Yeah, well, he looks so friendly and nice.

[564] I mean, when he's got his game face on, he looks like a killer.

[565] But most of the time, Hensow's smiling.

[566] He's like one of the smiliest, happiest guys you're ever going to run into.

[567] And look at him there.

[568] Big smile.

[569] Is that an IFL ring?

[570] It's an IFL ring.

[571] But this is the paperweight.

[572] This is not a fake one.

[573] It's a paperweight that they gave to us.

[574] Yeah.

[575] Henzel couldn't be a nicer guy.

[576] Couldn't be a nicer guy.

[577] And it's so nice to see how well he's done with his school, too.

[578] He has one of the biggest jiu -jitsu schools in the world.

[579] And in Manhattan, where it's so hard to be successful because it's so expensive, real estate.

[580] I think the IFL had a big part in that because they did that thing on 2020 for him or 15 minutes, one of the two.

[581] And after that, it just exploded.

[582] Because once you get into the world of Anzo, about what kind of person he is, everybody likes him.

[583] Even the guys like him.

[584] So the people at home, they saw that guy, and then they saw the technique and the, you know, talent, yeah, put hand and hand together, and boom.

[585] Anthony Bourdain trains there also, his wife trains, everybody trains there.

[586] Yeah, well, he's done an amazing job of putting together a fantastic gym in New York City with Gary Tonin, Eddie Cummins, so he's got these guys that are, and John Donahur is a big part of that as well.

[587] He's got these guys that are training there that are so successful in these jiu -jitsu competition, so it's not just the legacy of being one of the graces and being one of the most famous jujitsu practitioners ever, but it's also on top of that, it's the product, like the results that they've gotten in competition.

[588] Yeah, he's very smart.

[589] You know, he's got a really good staff as well teaching there, which is a very important thing because most of the time guys who are really good, they want to control it too much, you know, and then it goes down.

[590] Like, he did a great job, just getting the right guys for the job.

[591] Well, it's also you see extreme loyalty from the people that train there because they love Henzo so much.

[592] Like, there's like a real bond with Henzo Gracie.

[593] Of course, you know, Matt Serra, who came from that lineage and then, you know, a lot of his guys as well.

[594] Just can't say enough good things about him.

[595] Yeah, he's funny, Matt.

[596] He's so hilarious.

[597] The one when I's the first time looking for a fight.

[598] Yeah, you've seen that show, the Dana White show?

[599] You're a bone model, you know, and Dana sits there.

[600] And then he gets all uncomfortable about sitting a certain way.

[601] It's so funny.

[602] If you haven't seen it, there's a show called Looking for a Fight, and it's Dana White, Matt Sarah, and Nick the Tooth.

[603] And what they do is they go to small MMA shows all over the world.

[604] and they see fights and find talent.

[605] And that's where they find that kid, Mickey Gal, staged Northcutt as well.

[606] And then the guy who they were setting up to fight...

[607] Punk.

[608] Yeah, CM Punk, which is, I don't know what's going to happen with that guy.

[609] I don't understand this whole thing.

[610] He's got a lot of injuries.

[611] Well, I also think it's ridiculous for him to fight in the UFC.

[612] I think he should fight in a small organization.

[613] Take a fight in a small organization, build yourself up.

[614] I have always said that that's what should have happened with Brock Lesnar.

[615] I mean, if you look at Brock Lesnar as an athlete, I always said, if you took Brock Lesnar and got him to a guy like Matt Hume or Farras, a hobby, and said, okay, make this guy a champ.

[616] You're dealing with a freak athlete.

[617] Unreal.

[618] Just train him correctly, build him up slow, get him through the rank.

[619] But he wanted to fight right away in the UFC.

[620] One fight in K -1, right to the UFC, fought in that K -1, L .A. show.

[621] Yep.

[622] And then right to the UFC.

[623] Yeah, it's a shame, you know, but it's his name.

[624] And, you know, of course, they understand that once he fights for a pay -per -view, there's going to be a lot of people, he's going to have a gun on the pay -per -view, you know.

[625] But that is short.

[626] It's always short, like the money.

[627] Later in your career, you regret all these things.

[628] I'm happy I never did that.

[629] Yeah, I feel like...

[630] You make big mistakes.

[631] Well, I feel like he definitely had massive potential.

[632] I mean, he beat Randy Couture.

[633] Yeah, I mean, that's just...

[634] It started there, yeah.

[635] Unbelievable.

[636] I mean, he beat the shit out of Frank Meir.

[637] I mean he beat Shane Carwin in a fight We really had to show his resilience Got the fuck beat out of him in the first round Came back, submitted him in the second round So he had some legit wins Against legit guys But just wasn't ready for guys like Kane Or especially Alster That was a bad fight Yeah that was a bad fight Well if he could have taken it to the ground It would have been different Against Couture That was the first time that I thought Oh hopefully now more people start doing it That was that crazy punch And with him it was because he was not super technically Yet in striking but he hit an overhand and it hit with this part of the hand with the fist the back of the head and Couture went down then with Junior Dos Santos knocked out came Velascus like that I go okay we got it people finally now they start getting it to it and then Velascus did the same thing to Junior coming back so I figured oh they looked at it so now we're going to see this more often but that was pretty much it you see it here and there one time but it's not a real overhand or they throw a real overhand not with the side that hits the back of the head again what we just talked about.

[638] Yeah, almost like a ridge hand strike.

[639] It's almost like a rich hand, yep, that is.

[640] Well, you remember when Chuck Ladele used to throw that crazy, you got a Chuck Ladell sweatshirt on now?

[641] There's new roots -of -fight ones, right?

[642] Yeah, I got a Boston t -shirt at home.

[643] Oh, you got it.

[644] I just got one.

[645] But Chuck Ladell used to throw it, like, over the top of his head.

[646] Like, he would throw this crazy one, and that's how he hit Alster when they fought in pride.

[647] Yeah.

[648] He threw it like not a, not circular at all, but like a 12 -6.

[649] punch.

[650] You know, it's a complete different punch.

[651] That's what I tell people.

[652] I said, how do I say?

[653] I always really liked the technique from Chuck.

[654] He's also wide open, which gives him almost power equal left and right.

[655] It's just like Tyson.

[656] I like the fight like that as well.

[657] And he can hit really, really hard.

[658] And he's not afraid about opening up.

[659] Sometimes, though, with him, you know, if he gets too excited, instead of stepping back, he goes in for the kill and that got him in trouble later in his career.

[660] Because If you would simply step back and come back.

[661] But that's why every person, every guy, everybody likes Chuck Ladell.

[662] You don't look at Chuck Ladegh say, oh, he lost a couple of times by knockout.

[663] Nobody will say that.

[664] He did not lose one fan because he's always there to fight.

[665] That's why I really like Chuck.

[666] Yeah, he had one of the most exciting attitudes ever in fighting.

[667] He was always due or die.

[668] And early in his career, he had an incredible chin.

[669] I mean, his chin was just iron.

[670] You ever see the Pele fight when they fought in Valle Tuto in Brazil?

[671] Oh, no, no, I heard about it, though.

[672] Jesus Christ.

[673] Crazy fight.

[674] And that was a fight where they had a net under the bottom rope.

[675] They fought in a ring, but it was modified for Vali Tuto where the bottom rope from the bottom to the floor of the ring was a net.

[676] So he couldn't get out.

[677] They're trapped, bare knuckle, and Chuck's got them trapped in there and just beating a fuck out of them, like smushed up there.

[678] And this was back when, you know, Chuck was known.

[679] for his striking, but he was a very good wrestler.

[680] Yeah, before that.

[681] Yeah, that's why he stopped everything then.

[682] You know, that was one of the things that, what the fuck was his name?

[683] The guy who was the matchmaker for the UFC, John Perretti.

[684] John Peretti told Chuck right before he fought his first fight in the UFC.

[685] He said, if you take this guy down, you'll never fight for us again.

[686] Oh, wow.

[687] He said it to Chuck right before he fought.

[688] They didn't want him to try to wrestle fuck his way.

[689] So Chuck's like, oh, Jesus.

[690] All right.

[691] Mark him out.

[692] That's the debut of Chuck Liddell, you know?

[693] Who knew?

[694] You know, hey, I got great handpower.

[695] Well, you know, Hackleman, you know, his trainer is also a legend, you know, and a great guy and a real wild man, too.

[696] They were a perfect combination, you know, Hackleman and Chuck.

[697] You know, with Chuck's early days, you know, you watch some of those fights, like the Babaloo fight.

[698] I mean, he was just a fucking destroyer.

[699] That's the kick, right?

[700] Yeah.

[701] Yeah.

[702] That was the second time they fought, right, wasn't it?

[703] I don't know.

[704] If we have Morrow here, he'll tell the dates, everything.

[705] Well, when Morrow gets better, we'll definitely have him back here.

[706] I would love to talk to him.

[707] I love Morrow.

[708] He's such a great guy.

[709] He really is.

[710] We have some crazy stories in Japan also, because everything with us is fun.

[711] We would come home or we would come home.

[712] We would breakfast in Japan.

[713] You know, you wake up early because of the jet lag.

[714] We're there at 5 .30 when the breakfast place opens, we sit down.

[715] And our table, we start with two.

[716] It would be at the end, 25 guys.

[717] guys are there.

[718] Everybody jumps at there because it's Comedy Central all morning long.

[719] All the fighters, you know, everybody's laughing, everybody's having a good time.

[720] Well, you guys did a lot of comedy sketches, too.

[721] There was like a lot of fun with pride in those early days.

[722] In the early days, yeah.

[723] This was just that was with Quadros, Stephen Quadros, yeah.

[724] They allowed us to do this.

[725] And it all happened because I forgot my suit.

[726] I didn't know that as a commentator you needed to wear a suit.

[727] So they thought I was messing with them.

[728] And I go, No, I really didn't bring us.

[729] Nobody told me to bring a shirt.

[730] So I was in my shorts, flip -flops, and I had this Hawaiian shirt on.

[731] And that was the first one that I'm leaning back.

[732] And there's a bunch of these geishas.

[733] They're fanning me down and feeding me grapes.

[734] And I'm doing, I'm talking to Stephen, who is in the event.

[735] You know, we're going back and forth.

[736] And they say, man, we really like that.

[737] Maybe we should keep doing this.

[738] And then we start coming up at this crazy opening.

[739] Well, a lot of what you were doing, it was, I don't even know if I was working for the UFC back then.

[740] But guys from Jiu -Jitsu, we would all get together.

[741] We'd either go over my friend John's house or we'd go over my house.

[742] And we'd get together with a bunch of guys and we would watch Pride.

[743] Yep.

[744] And, oh, those were the days.

[745] Those were the days.

[746] Those were the days because it was the early days of MMA.

[747] And, you know, we had had in the 90s, you'd have the UFC, which was kind of struggling at the time because they were kicked off a cable.

[748] And the only way you could get it was on direct TV.

[749] This was pre -ZUFA.

[750] It was before Zufa bought it.

[751] But that's like right up around the time.

[752] where pride started to take off with the first Hickson fight.

[753] Hickson, a lot of people don't know.

[754] Hickson started off Pride.

[755] Yep.

[756] Hickson was in Pride 1.

[757] Yeah, Takata.

[758] Yeah.

[759] That was the first fight.

[760] And then Sakuraba put him on the map by beating the Gracies.

[761] Yeah, yeah.

[762] That's when it became big.

[763] That's why I always say, you know, for risen, for that new organ is rising.

[764] They need a Sakuraba -like guy.

[765] They need a Japanese guy.

[766] They can do a few shows like this with a fader of me and ankle.

[767] and now van der Leis Silva coming back and they can do a few shows but eventually people want to root for their own you know they need a Japanese guy like Satake you remember in K1 he was forgetting very good I think he won the first one but that was before all the foreigners came and once the you know Bronco Siketiju and all the that was an animal that guy also Bronco knocked out Hust remember that?

[768] Man that guy could fucking punch we saw I saw a fight in the Yop Aida Hall in Holland that was the famous place every fight was there always that was one One night, we had four guys from Thailand were there, and they were fighting all guys from a Giro Gym, like Rob Kamen, Miloel Goebly, I mean, all the great guys, all the great strikers from Meng Ho, and they were all title fights, and they were broadcast live to Thailand.

[769] Wow.

[770] They all got knocked out.

[771] Wow.

[772] Yeah, that never happened again after that.

[773] Wow.

[774] They destroyed him.

[775] It was awesome.

[776] What a night.

[777] Well, that was, you know, the Holland days of, you know, the top Holland guys, when right.

[778] Right around the time where Ramon Decker started dominating and Rob Kamen started dominating, so much talent came out of Holland.

[779] I mean, Holland is a small country.

[780] If you look at the size of Holland, you look at the amount of high -level kickboxers that have come out there, it's pretty incredible.

[781] It's incredible.

[782] You know, the K -1, for instance, at the end, from the final eight, they fight all year they make a final tournament for the people who don't understand it.

[783] They fight 10 times a year, or there's 10 shows a year.

[784] And then in December, there's the final eight, like the UFC started, eight fighters, the best from the whole year, compete against each other, whoever wins gets like $450 ,000, whatever the price money is.

[785] But they start realizing that the final eight were six were Dutch, seven were Dutch.

[786] So now, if you're, for instance, a guy who was born in Morocco but lives in Holland, or even when you were born in Holland with Moroccan parents, you know, suddenly you come up with the Moroccan flag.

[787] Right.

[788] Because they say, we can't have the Dutch flag.

[789] Like Butterhari.

[790] A lot Bader Hari.

[791] Perfect example.

[792] Roman Deccas, the first time I saw him fight, I wasn't the same card.

[793] I was fighting as well.

[794] So this is a long time ago.

[795] It was just C class.

[796] You know, in Holland you have new C class, B class, A class.

[797] And I just started.

[798] So I probably was new.

[799] And he fought C class, I believe.

[800] And a friend of mine calls me. He says, you're going to watch.

[801] I said, no, I got a fight.

[802] I got to warm up.

[803] He said, you want to watch this kid.

[804] Watch this kid.

[805] And I see him.

[806] And he's with a little mullet.

[807] And he is skinny, and he fights this guy who's much older.

[808] He's like 16, 17 years old.

[809] An older guy with tattoo, so automatically you go, oh, man, he's going to get killed.

[810] And my buddy goes, just wait until he starts, you know.

[811] And the first kick, I still remember, he kicked a guy, a low kick, and the guy went horizontal and fell on the ground.

[812] I'm looking at my body, I go, this is the craziest power I've ever seen.

[813] It was so explosive, and he was so skinny at the time.

[814] But his technique was perfect.

[815] His technique was perfect, and he was so ferocious.

[816] Yeah.

[817] I mean, he didn't kick.

[818] Like, when, towards the end, his ankles were so fucked up that he wanted to fight Southpaw because he didn't want to throw the right kick, but he would kick a few times, he would go, fuck it.

[819] Yeah.

[820] He'd go right back to it with his bad leg.

[821] I mean, they were telling them, like, we're close to amputating your leg.

[822] You've broken your foot so many times.

[823] You've broken your shin.

[824] Your whole leg is just a series of, and he would wrap it up tight and just still.

[825] Once the fight started, he didn't give a fuck.

[826] He would just throw it right into elbows.

[827] He'd kick everything.

[828] Arm out of socket.

[829] He would just place it back in the corner.

[830] Yeah, he was an animal.

[831] And Core Hammers, his trainer, he told me, I never heard him complain.

[832] Like he would say, oh, you know, I hurt my ankle or I hurt my hand.

[833] He said, I never heard him say anything when he comes back like that.

[834] He just goes like, what are you doing?

[835] I'm putting my shoulder back in place.

[836] It's out of the socket.

[837] It was almost like it wasn't his body.

[838] Yeah.

[839] Like he was using a borrowed body.

[840] Yeah.

[841] Yeah.

[842] Crazy guy, man. Super good.

[843] You know, that's Kevin, Kevin Redelman.

[844] Look at freaking nature.

[845] I mean, he could have done any sport.

[846] Yeah.

[847] You know, guys like that.

[848] And that's where Roman Decker's too.

[849] I'm happy they found fighting, though.

[850] Yeah, well, Ramon Decker's really set the standard.

[851] He really set the standard.

[852] I mean, for ferocity.

[853] And he sort of embodied that Holland style, the Dutch style of Muay.

[854] Where they just, I mean, he was just a crusher.

[855] A crusher.

[856] Yeah, he was like Rob came and all these guys, they started.

[857] What they did, what they.

[858] But the reason was they started winning fights in Thailand was because they had better hands.

[859] They tied the hands and the kicks together.

[860] And they didn't do that in Thailand yet.

[861] It was predominantly only kicking.

[862] Kicking and a lot of clinching.

[863] And then you had like Rob Kaman who was what are the greatest kickboxers ever.

[864] And then you suddenly, that's the technical version.

[865] The more smooth one, probably he had the slow twitch fibers, you know, because don't get me wrong, he knocked you out with every punch.

[866] But then you had Roman Dacres, who was the explosive guy.

[867] He had that technique, and he added the explosiveness to it.

[868] It's like dyson.

[869] We had recklessness, too.

[870] Just crazy power.

[871] You know, when he fights Coban the first time, you know, and he hits him with 26 punchy.

[872] You got to see the shots that Cobon.

[873] He was never, had 200 fights, never been knocked out in his life.

[874] He was the first guy to do that.

[875] And then you see, after the fire, when he's down, the whole place is quiet.

[876] Nobody moves.

[877] And then Rob Cameron.

[878] jumps in the ring with a Dutch flag and he starts parading around.

[879] Hey, pull that fight up, man. Rob Kay, no, Rob Cameron.

[880] Ramon Decker's versus Coban.

[881] Coban Laksam Choy Tong, right?

[882] Is that how you say it?

[883] Yeah, just do Cobon.

[884] Just Cobon.

[885] I always did it with these Pauli's names, you know.

[886] It's come and a clue.

[887] I say, okay, I call him mine's first name.

[888] The Thai names are pretty crazy.

[889] The amount of adverbs and the adjectives they have in there.

[890] It's like whatever.

[891] It's so strange.

[892] Yeah.

[893] The amount of consonants all just lumped in together and all these crazy names.

[894] Yeah, here it is.

[895] Oh, this is a different guy.

[896] But just take a little look to see what kind of power he has.

[897] Look at that hook.

[898] The kick bonk.

[899] Oh, yeah, look at that left hook.

[900] Look, man. What Rob Kamen, the difference between Rob Kamen was, yeah, here it is.

[901] Rob Kamen was just more technical.

[902] He didn't take as many chances.

[903] He didn't get hit as much.

[904] He was very smart, very technical when he fought.

[905] And he's a great trainer, too.

[906] You know, Rob Cayman was really one of the guys that was responsible for Brandon Verre early in his career.

[907] You know, when Brandon Verra was knocking everybody dead in the UFC early in his career, he was training with Rob Cayman.

[908] And when he stopped training with Rob Cayman is when things started, like, not going so well for him.

[909] Yep.

[910] Oh, this is Cobon.

[911] This is a slow motion for some reason.

[912] They show Cobar now knocking people out, I think, so they know who Cobon is.

[913] They called him the Bufflehead.

[914] That was his nickname because he never went down.

[915] Well, he had a giant head.

[916] and then this is see if they can show yeah go a little further away I don't want to see it in slow motion maybe that's it where you are now yeah but I don't want to see slow mo I want to see them there we go now they're actually fighting this is going to be so crazy the way he gives him the extra punch what's in the bed you'll see it so Ramon like most of the time fought Southpaw is that what it was no he fought Orthodox yep fought both so most of the time when he fights different is because he has an you like you said oh this is laurence kenschen uh who's uh an amazing uh analyst he does a fantastic job of breaking down fights his his fight breakdowns are amazing but he does a lot of it in slow motion to show technique so see if you could find just the actual fight instead of that video because long you should definitely if you're a fan of striking and you want to understand it a little bit a little bit better watch lawrence's stuff what is the uh his youtube channel lawrence's YouTube channel because I should give him some props.

[917] Just his name Lawrence Kenshin.

[918] He's amazing.

[919] Lawrence is amazing.

[920] He does such a great job of breaking down fights.

[921] His videos are incredible and he really deserves a lot of credit for that.

[922] I love watching his breakdowns, especially Thai.

[923] He loves a lot of Muay, a lot of Muay breakdown.

[924] So here's the actual fight itself.

[925] Man, these are like in a lot of ways, like unprecedented times because the ties back in those days we were used to karate and we were used to PCA kickboxing.

[926] Yeah, yeah, 10 kicks, WKA into the head first.

[927] People didn't know.

[928] And then when Westerners started going over to Thailand and competing against the ties, we started seeing what high -level Moytai they had and their kicking technique and especially the low kicks was just devastating.

[929] That was the first, the American champions here.

[930] When they came, when they lost, it was low kicks.

[931] Yeah, but remember when Gruffis, went and fought, and it's kind of funny because Duke Rufus talks about it, he kind of laughs about it now, that they were saying when his brother got fucked up, I forget who his brother fought, but he got lit up, leg kicks, and stopped, and Duke was like, well, there's not a lot of technique to that, and, you know, I don't think there's doesn't take much talent.

[932] It takes a lot of talent.

[933] They didn't know you.

[934] Now, watch this.

[935] Look at his hands.

[936] Look at his hands.

[937] Oh, my God.

[938] This is it.

[939] Ramon Decker's in his prime, man. And now the...

[940] Look at Cobon gets up.

[941] Wait, the finishing point she's going to Watch, one, two, three.

[942] Oh, my God, the fucking power in his hands.

[943] How tough was Coban?

[944] Look at him.

[945] He's out on his feet, he's walking forward.

[946] They're giving him a standing eight count.

[947] The last right hand, watch that in the, this is going to be so badass.

[948] It's amazing how much Coban could take, though.

[949] Boom, move, this one.

[950] Oh, that's it.

[951] Incredible.

[952] Look at the audience.

[953] There's only Dutch guys, everybody is quiet.

[954] Yeah, man. And you see Kaman coming in?

[955] Oh, that's Keman, and he's going to get the flag.

[956] I remember.

[957] Man, how fucking tough was Koban, too, to take those shots.

[958] A lot of people lost a lot of money there.

[959] I mean, there's not a whole lot of people on the planet that are his weight.

[960] They would have taken those punches.

[961] As many as he took, clean to the face.

[962] And you saw, yeah, he's got the flag.

[963] And Ramon Decker's was just teased.

[964] and off, full power.

[965] I mean, winging those shots in on him, too, man. You know, this core hammer.

[966] Such a scary guy.

[967] Yeah, man. The glory days.

[968] Well, he's up there now with Kevin, so they're having a blast.

[969] Yeah, yeah.

[970] Sean Tompkins.

[971] He died young as well.

[972] He died a heart attack while he was riding his bike.

[973] His bike, yeah.

[974] What was that?

[975] Do they know what happened?

[976] No, they first thought maybe it fell, but it was his heart.

[977] And he's also, because we've been crazy.

[978] We all liked going, pushing limits, you know.

[979] Yeah.

[980] We were drinking with everything.

[981] but he was totally like a year nothing we started cycling and I knew you know once he starts something and he loved cycling I mean this guy is gonna go 50 miles an hour I know he's going to because that's how he is he can't stop being the best at everything he does so I thought he wasn't just riding his bike no no no going crazy with it yeah that's his attitude you know he's such an animal such an animal yeah he probably pushed himself to his heart broke and also when you see him you know all the punishment he got in the tie with all the cuts on his forehead, you know, he looks really badass.

[982] When you look at it, you go like, oh, yeah, that's, yeah, I want that.

[983] Well, I remember when he fought Dwayne Ludwig towards the end of his career, I mean, his face was flattened out, his massive scar tissue all over his eyes, his nose was flattened out.

[984] Yeah.

[985] I mean, he took a lot of pun.

[986] I don't think anybody's face changed more than Vanderlays, though.

[987] Yeah, that, yeah.

[988] His face got flattened.

[989] I mean, you look at Vandalay during the old.

[990] Valley Tudor days and then Vandlea towards the end in pride.

[991] I mean, it changed his face.

[992] Didn't they do surgery but the cheap bones like Nick Diaz did, you know, to make him flatter or something that he was in the UFC?

[993] They not only did that, they took cartilage out of his rib and reconstructed his nose.

[994] And Vandle had his nose made big so that he could get more air in.

[995] He, I mean, it looked crazy because his nose looks very different than it used to look.

[996] Like I remember the first time I saw him was on the way.

[997] He was like for the way -ins.

[998] He wasn't fighting.

[999] he was with someone else, and he came up the stage, and I didn't know who the fuck it was.

[1000] I didn't know who it was.

[1001] Oh, that's scary.

[1002] And someone said, that's Vandalé.

[1003] And I went, what?

[1004] What?

[1005] Because he had just gotten the surgery.

[1006] So his face was pulled tight.

[1007] His eyebrows were pulled tight, and his nose was big.

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] It was like he had his nose made much larger with a big piece of cartilage so that they could take punches.

[1010] Oh, yeah.

[1011] You see, that's the same with the stupid ears, you know, with those cauliflower ears.

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] I sucked them out.

[1014] Three times a day you got a stab through it and you need a big syringe and a large needle because I do not want to have those ears and they go oh no they're considerate trophies I go okay good for you not for me I always wear ear guards I have a little tiny pieces of it here and there but I always wore ear guards it's just not smart it affects your hearing like it looks cool but it affects the way the reason the ears designed that way so the sound echoes off the outside of the ear and you can hear better Yeah, like if you take your ear, like folks who don't have cauliflower ear, take your ear, go over the top of your ear and bend it down.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] That's what those guys are hearing like all the time.

[1017] Like Randy, Randy can't even use iPhone ear pods.

[1018] Those ear, ear plugs, those little things.

[1019] I had a guy also, yeah.

[1020] They walk around with the Bluetooth and I say, how can you listen to that thing?

[1021] I mean, it's a thing.

[1022] It's not even an ear.

[1023] Well, Randy told me, too, his, you know, what happens with what it is is calcification.

[1024] So when your ear breaks and bleeds, if you don't drain it, it actually turns to calcium.

[1025] Yeah, what turns hard, eh?

[1026] So it's like a bone.

[1027] So what Randy would do is get on top of guys and grind his ear into their eyeball.

[1028] He would get his ear, like when he's taking guys down, he would shove his ear, right?

[1029] It's like he had a rock on his head.

[1030] There's something very wrong with this guy.

[1031] Look at that, yeah.

[1032] And just that the people know at home, a really tiny surgery can fix this right away.

[1033] I mean, they can't fix this in 10 minutes.

[1034] One of Eddie Bravo's black belts, Brent, he had it done.

[1035] He had his ear cut, and then they pulled it back, and they pulled the stuff out.

[1036] But it can get very dangerous, too.

[1037] You can get some infections in there.

[1038] Like, you remember Dave Terrell?

[1039] Yeah, I remember.

[1040] Dave Terrell had his ear fucking removed because he had his ear removed.

[1041] They had a cauterized the inside of his ear because his infections were so bad that it was fucking with his equilibrium, his balance was off.

[1042] Like the whole inside of his ear was just pus and infections.

[1043] The Kimbo against Thompson, James Thompson fight, when they called it like a satellite was hanging and he hits it and you see the blood.

[1044] Well, he went in there with, I mean, he didn't, not only did he not drain it.

[1045] It was like a recent blood.

[1046] It was like he had a mouse living in his ear.

[1047] Yeah, it was big.

[1048] Oh, that was nasty.

[1049] Yeah, and then he hits it.

[1050] That was nasty.

[1051] Yeah, splatter.

[1052] Well, probably no one's worse than Jessica I versus Laura.

[1053] Laura Smith?

[1054] Was it Laura Smith?

[1055] What was her name?

[1056] The gunstler, Leslie.

[1057] Leslie Smith, thank you.

[1058] And Jessica I hits her an ear and you see the blood shoot straight up in the air from her ear.

[1059] It was insane.

[1060] It would be crazy if she hits.

[1061] She's the blood flying and I go, try to catch it.

[1062] Here's the punch.

[1063] That means your opponent is crazy.

[1064] You can see it right there.

[1065] Look at that.

[1066] It's insane.

[1067] And half of her ear was hanging off her head.

[1068] And by the way, how tough is Leslie Smith?

[1069] Because Leslie Smith was mad that they stopped the fight.

[1070] She had a fucking hole that you could see her brain.

[1071] Oh, I'm always been a big fed of Leslie Smith.

[1072] That's her nickname, right?

[1073] The gunslinger or something?

[1074] It's a, what is her nickname?

[1075] Something like Western.

[1076] I don't know.

[1077] I don't know her but it fits her because she's that tough.

[1078] And Jessica just started targeting that one spot over and over again.

[1079] Oh, it's disgusting.

[1080] That was a nasty ear, man. That was a bad.

[1081] Yeah, I never got that people.

[1082] You see, I will be too nice at that moment.

[1083] I won't hit that ear anymore.

[1084] Because people go like Hit the air again They go by The peacemaker See Well that's Clint Eastwood I thought about Clint Eastwood The Peacemaker Yeah I got a sick shot here Well women's MMA is really heating up right now Right with Yohanna Junjecheck Oh I love her Whoo she's fun Ernesto Hoost again Yeah She's fun man That chick is wild She breaks her hands a lot too Unfortunately She's broke her hands In two UFC fight so far Yeah yeah In the first round right the last fight that's why she couldn't finish she said yeah total animal yeah she's tough I love also the way she gets in in the in their head you know at the way in the looking that story behind it she gets low and looks out from below she's dangerous she's dangerous but claudea is a fucking beast too yeah that's a great fight and they're gonna coach alongside each other they're gonna coach on the ultimate fighter and then they're gonna fight yeah and they're gonna fight the day before the big july ufc 200 card oh wow yeah so They're going to have the finals on Friday where the Ultimate Fighter Finals and then they're going to fight for the title.

[1085] Juana Yon Jacek and Claudecadilla and then they're going to have the big 200 card which they don't even know exactly who's going to fight in the 200 card and I mean that's July.

[1086] So a lot depends on Connor McGregor v. Dos Anjo.

[1087] Now, this, just for Joanna, I want to see the ultimate fighter now.

[1088] You know, because that's going to be interesting because her personality, I think, Oh, yeah.

[1089] It's going to make it.

[1090] Well, you know.

[1091] And Godella also.

[1092] Yeah, it's an animal.

[1093] Well, they fought, and it was a split decision.

[1094] Very close fight.

[1095] And the way, Cadilla, Luke's, right?

[1096] Her body, it's like an, also like a machine.

[1097] Very good Muay Thai, too, but really good ground game.

[1098] Yep.

[1099] So the question is, was she going to be able to get it to the ground?

[1100] Because Joanna heard her in the first round, knocked her down, and won that round, but a lot of people thought that Claudia might have won the second and third.

[1101] So it was a very close fight, very close fight, very controversial, and, Very tightly disputed fight.

[1102] So I think the rematch is going to be very exciting.

[1103] I'm looking forward to that.

[1104] Who's the J. Drechik work with for wrestling?

[1105] That's a good question.

[1106] That's a good question.

[1107] I don't know who her wrestling coach is.

[1108] But I think she does a lot of her work in Poland, you know, because she lives in Poland.

[1109] So, I mean, there's so many good European wrestling coaches.

[1110] You know, Europe and wrestling, there's a lot of great, like, especially they bring in a lot of Eastern Bloc wrestlers, a lot of the Russian wrestlers.

[1111] It's like, that's how George St. Pierre got so good.

[1112] The Russian nationals who are training up in Montreal.

[1113] You go try.

[1114] I go train with you.

[1115] So technical, too.

[1116] You know, those guys, the Russian style of wrestling is so technical, so drill -oriented, you know.

[1117] There's so many really high -level, I mean, look at what's happening now in the UFC with all these Samba guys, these high -level grapplers.

[1118] Like, well, first of all, you've got Habib, Nirmagamatov, who's one of the best in the lightweight division.

[1119] But he's another one that has a hard time staying healthy You know, but you think it's a training or you think it's just the person?

[1120] Who knows?

[1121] Yeah You know, it could be both, you know?

[1122] I mean, he's such a fucking animal.

[1123] You see the way he fights.

[1124] You've got to think he trains that way.

[1125] And the way he fights is he's just so grinding.

[1126] He's so fucking attacking and relentless, like a badger, you know?

[1127] So who knows?

[1128] Yeah, I always, I was, I was guilty of that as well.

[1129] I trained really hard.

[1130] Like, but when I hear stories, I hear fighters saying, Oh, we go, like, on Fridays we spar, like 70%.

[1131] And I go, and they said, no, that's it.

[1132] I say, that's it for sparring, yeah.

[1133] I go, wow.

[1134] And they always ask you, so how many times you do?

[1135] I say, every workout, because that's what we're going to do, you know, and we're going to try to, I'll try to hurt your legs.

[1136] Well, if you have to fight, I won't.

[1137] And your body, I will go with kickster.

[1138] I expect them also to go hard with me. And the head, you know, yeah, of course, we watch out for the head.

[1139] we don't knock each other out too much too much because it happens as well right it's inevitable but that's why what i i didn't fight for seven years when i did that 2006 fight i felt great they say no ring rust i said no because we're doing it two times a day we're trying we're training hard you know and if you're used to it it's the same as a fight i mean if they go hard well that's a fight yeah it's well it's very similar if you train like that some people feel like i mean that's one of the ideas behind hard training is that when you train hard, you fight hard, and it becomes normal to you.

[1140] But then other people think, well, you really should just train technical like a lot of the ties do.

[1141] They train more technical and more light with their sparring.

[1142] The hard work is all pad work and bag work.

[1143] So, there's people to think, like, that's the way to save yourself.

[1144] Like, Wonderboy says that.

[1145] He says he spars very light because he wants to preserve his chin, wants to preserve his head.

[1146] He's like he saves the hard work for the bag and for fights.

[1147] I used to train a lot with my buddy, Amir, Amir Peretz, the Navy SEAL guy from Israel.

[1148] And he's the one guy who could hang with me, I mean stamina -wise, because I will not get in mind.

[1149] But we will go hard.

[1150] People who see us, they think it's out of control.

[1151] But it's not at all.

[1152] So it's also about who you train with.

[1153] Right.

[1154] If one day your steady sparring partner is sick and somebody else pops up and you don't know that guy, and that guy tries to make a name for himself, you know, that's when you get the injuries.

[1155] But I truly believe in going hard.

[1156] How many times do you see it really angers me if I see guys in a clinch kneeing other people and they knee them like they knee in training.

[1157] They just lift their legs.

[1158] Nobody gives a real knee.

[1159] Look at Joanna when she makes a knee.

[1160] Now that's a different story.

[1161] Or Alistair.

[1162] Explode in there.

[1163] Yeah.

[1164] Go full blast.

[1165] They go, hey, hey, he's stupid.

[1166] Or the knees to the thighs.

[1167] It's not going to do anything if you do it like that.

[1168] If you do one hard one, it's worse than a lower.

[1169] kick because they don't expect it.

[1170] The muscle is so relaxing go straight through.

[1171] But nobody does it.

[1172] There's a few.

[1173] I mean, we're talking about 1 % of the fighters.

[1174] But isn't it, though, like all techniques?

[1175] Like, some guys just aren't that good at certain techniques.

[1176] They just don't have the kind of pop.

[1177] Like, you'll see guys throw kicks, and there's just nothing to them.

[1178] And it's not that they're not trying.

[1179] They don't have the looseness of the hips.

[1180] They don't have that sort of snap into the kick.

[1181] No. Most of the time, it's just technique.

[1182] If you train your legs and you put like 10 pound ankle weights and you just start throwing knees from zero.

[1183] Don't make it a bouncing, like sit -ups.

[1184] I can do a thousand sit -ups as long as I use momentum to get back up, right?

[1185] That's the problem what a lot of guys do.

[1186] They do the knees.

[1187] It's all momentum.

[1188] Stand still, explode.

[1189] Stand still, explode.

[1190] And the trick also with knees is to move your hips away from your partner, same as with a straight punch.

[1191] The longer the knees on its way, the more power it's going to have.

[1192] And these guys, they don't.

[1193] They actually, they teach, throw your hips in with a knee to the body.

[1194] It's the dumbest thing to do.

[1195] It's like me giving you a straight punch and closing the distance.

[1196] I'm jamming myself.

[1197] You don't want to do that.

[1198] Free it up.

[1199] Let the hip flexor do the work.

[1200] And at the moment you connect, yeah, that's when you want to push your weight in.

[1201] Right.

[1202] You see?

[1203] But a lot of guys don't do it like that.

[1204] They just knee like they do in training and sparring.

[1205] Do you get frustrated at when, I mean, obviously there's some very high level training going on in MMA, some very high level training.

[1206] But there's also some training where you see these guys like they're just not really prepared correctly.

[1207] Yeah.

[1208] Well, kicking in the balls, you know, the inside low kick.

[1209] 90 % when it happens, it's just because the guy doesn't know how to kick.

[1210] Because he's kicking up.

[1211] He kicking up.

[1212] His right foot, if he kicks with the left, his right foot, his toes, I guarantee you pointing straight to the opponent.

[1213] What they need to do is open that foot.

[1214] Let the toes point to the side.

[1215] And then the angle is much easier to kick.

[1216] You will never have that problem.

[1217] These are just guys who don't know how to kick, and that's why they kick in the pills.

[1218] Well, it's interesting because that kick to the balls is so much more common in MMA than it is.

[1219] or in glory.

[1220] Because they know.

[1221] Exactly.

[1222] They're throwing the kick kicks.

[1223] You know, we were talking about glory getting, before this podcast started, we're talking about glory getting picked up by Fight Pass.

[1224] Oh, man. Yeah.

[1225] Glory right now is so good.

[1226] There's so much high -level kickboxing talent in the world.

[1227] And now that, you know, glory picked up its showtime and K -1's not really around anymore.

[1228] I mean, glory is the game.

[1229] It's the game.

[1230] That's it.

[1231] You got the best guys on the planet.

[1232] You know, Gokon Sakhi even, yeah, he got injured now.

[1233] but I don't know I don't know I just found out you know Maro told me because he was gonna maybe do that show I think maybe now it's Ron Krug falling in for him but Saki that's a guy who was like Tyson and that's what I teach a lot double rights double left punches you know everybody has a pattern the fight that really upset me is Pachiao against Mayweather Wayweather is hanging against the ropes Pacio is just unloading but everything is left right left right left right, left, right.

[1234] Now, if you take a Mike Tyson, suddenly throws in a left uppercut, liver shot or a spleen right uppercut, double right, double left, you mix that into a pattern.

[1235] Because if you throw a boxer in the corner and you start unloading on him with right, right, left, right left punch, that's a pattern.

[1236] They just punch, yeah.

[1237] Right.

[1238] But if you go left right, right, right, left, and you change the second punch as well.

[1239] Like a three shot with a left hook and then you go to the body while keep looking in his eyes or a left uppercut.

[1240] Right.

[1241] Change the angle of the punch but use the same arm.

[1242] That's when get really effective and you see this in boxing and tie boxing everybody who does it is really effective at it yet he didn't do it they got paid 80 million dollars and 180 million dollars you would expect to do that you had a shoulder injury that doesn't prevent him from throwing a double left or double right mike dyson spleen right up a cut i think he knocked six out guys out like that oh yeah bang bang over unusual patterns yep that's it yeah did you ever see the uh well john wayne par has got a fucking amazing highlight real but i'm i put one of them on my instagram page the other day where he hits this guy with like seven uppercuts in a row with the right side.

[1243] Just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

[1244] Like, you can't prepare.

[1245] You don't know the guy's going to do that.

[1246] I do this.

[1247] Yesterday in my class, double right uppercut left left.

[1248] People don't know.

[1249] Double left.

[1250] I had Hector Pena.

[1251] He had three left uppercuts.

[1252] And the third one, the guy fell already down and he hit him on the way down.

[1253] Three left uppercut.

[1254] Here's the John Wayne Parr highlight.

[1255] I love this highlight.

[1256] He was such a, look at this.

[1257] Boom, boom, boom.

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] He's an animal.

[1260] If one is good.

[1261] do is better.

[1262] John Wayne Parr is a wild motherfucker.

[1263] Yeah, he really is.

[1264] Great guy, too.

[1265] Total animal.

[1266] He also came up at that striking organization where he lives with the M .M .A. Gloves pretty much, right?

[1267] It's his.

[1268] Cage, Muay Thai.

[1269] I love that combination.

[1270] I never got anybody who doesn't do that.

[1271] Why they don't do that here?

[1272] Well, they should, and maybe he can bring it to the United States.

[1273] But, you know, what he wanted to do is have, like, Cage, like, he likes the cage.

[1274] He likes the fact that you're trapped in there, and he likes the small gloves.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] So he's like, let's just do this and fuck the ground game.

[1277] It's just a strike like this.

[1278] I love a guy like that.

[1279] Yeah, he's a wild guy, man. He's fun.

[1280] Have you ever seen the pictures of his face, like how many times he's been stitched up?

[1281] Oh, no, I can only imagine.

[1282] There's a picture of John Wayne Parr's face after one of his fights where his entire face is like a roadmap of stitches.

[1283] It's fucking crazy.

[1284] See if you could find that picture because it's one of those pictures you just look at it.

[1285] You start shaking your head and blinking.

[1286] Like, what the fuck?

[1287] His whole face is like patched together.

[1288] Look at this photograph.

[1289] Look at this.

[1290] Oh, Jesus Christ.

[1291] It's real.

[1292] Yes.

[1293] That is the craziest thing.

[1294] It's one fight.

[1295] It's one fight.

[1296] His entire face.

[1297] Oh, yeah.

[1298] He got just a shit elbowed out of him.

[1299] Wow.

[1300] It's such an insane photo.

[1301] Lever face.

[1302] He's over 300 stitches in his face.

[1303] 300.

[1304] Wow.

[1305] Yeah.

[1306] Well, and he's, well, the ears are still good.

[1307] At least he doesn't have the cauliflower.

[1308] He's got a little cauliflower on his left one.

[1309] He's been hit there as well.

[1310] It's from shots, not really from grappling.

[1311] He fought one MMA fight, but, you know, he's just never really trained grappling.

[1312] It's not really his thing.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] You know, but just fucking as Maitai goes.

[1315] I trained with him.

[1316] I got a chance to work out with him and learn some techniques from everything he throws is with power.

[1317] Yeah.

[1318] The way he throws a jab, he pulls the right hand back as he throws the jab.

[1319] Like, he doesn't just jab like a boxer would throw a jab.

[1320] The way he jabs, he's like pulling back the right and stepping forward.

[1321] He's like, ah!

[1322] Yeah.

[1323] Everything he throws is designed to kill you.

[1324] Yes, but it's been my thing also.

[1325] I like it like that.

[1326] Everything you throw, make them...

[1327] When you said in the beginning, I kick somebody and you see their faces, and I don't care if they block it.

[1328] I just kick as hard as I can on the defense.

[1329] Just to get inside their heads that they know that, you better block this kick.

[1330] Yeah.

[1331] Because next time, if you're not blocking it, you're going to have...

[1332] It's going to be a problem.

[1333] You know, and then you start breaking your opponent down mentally.

[1334] Hit him.

[1335] Or they hold the hands up high.

[1336] Just hit as hard.

[1337] as you can on their hands.

[1338] A lot of guys don't do that.

[1339] They truly believe that this is enough defense for like a right hook.

[1340] It's not.

[1341] It's like me putting on a helmet.

[1342] I say this in seminars, at seminars.

[1343] So, okay, imagine I would tape a focus mitt to my face and you can give me a straight points or a hook.

[1344] You think I go down.

[1345] And everybody goes, yeah, of course you're going to go down.

[1346] I say, so why is everybody doing this?

[1347] You make yourself one with your head.

[1348] I'm just going to hit your hand as hard as I can.

[1349] you will still go down.

[1350] But what happens in the mind of a fighter, as soon as I hit you and I see your hand going up, automatically I let my power off because it's like, oh, it's defended.

[1351] But if you just don't care or close line him, like I said in the beginning, it'll go straight through.

[1352] Yeah, well, you started throwing kicks in the pancreas days.

[1353] I remember, you know, because I came from a kicking background, there was not that many good kickers in M .A. Before Mory Smith fought Conan, we really didn't see that many head kickers.

[1354] chaos in M .MA.

[1355] And especially against a black belt.

[1356] When Maurice fought Conan Silviera, it was the first time.

[1357] That was in, um, um, um, no, it was in that other one.

[1358] It was in the John Paredi organization, wasn't it?

[1359] Like, John's, Battlecade?

[1360] Battlecade?

[1361] Extreme fighting?

[1362] Yeah, extreme fighting.

[1363] Yeah.

[1364] And that was the first time I was like, oh, okay, now we're finally seeing a guy who can throw some kicks in MMA.

[1365] Yeah.

[1366] But the first time really was you in Pancras because you would, and they make you wear those crazy boots.

[1367] Yeah.

[1368] You had like wrestling shoes on with a big boot shin shin and instep slash thing yeah yeah but you still would slam that kick into their arms and you'd see like nobody wants a whole pads for a guy like that no forget about like getting it on your raw arm but you know it's a it's a great way to go and into a fight because you know you can you're capable of doing that yeah so you only have to connect you know and if you know that you only have to connect just wait and connect and i also i'm not the guy who likes to get hit you know i don't mind but i'm i rather not so i just use movement right you know and then and then just explode at moments that you need to explode.

[1369] How many fighters are you training right now?

[1370] Do you train any active guys?

[1371] No. I train a few guys at my gym, but I've been traveling a lot now.

[1372] So the coaches that I have at my gym are training them.

[1373] But we got only three pros and then a bunch of amateur guys.

[1374] So you're still doing Inside MMA with Ken?

[1375] Kenny.

[1376] And you do World Series of Fighting still?

[1377] World Series of Fight.

[1378] Actually, this weekend coming up.

[1379] on, what is it, Saturday, this Saturday on NBC is on.

[1380] Really?

[1381] Okay, nice.

[1382] Yeah, Morales is fighting again.

[1383] He's very talented.

[1384] I like his footwork, too.

[1385] That's a guy that people sleep on.

[1386] Yeah, they don't really realize how talented.

[1387] That guy is, and it's unfortunate that World Series of fighting is not getting as much attention as it deserves.

[1388] Yeah, well, there's a lot of M .M .A. out there now.

[1389] You know, it's very hard to pull eyeballs to it.

[1390] But it's the same with Glory.

[1391] Glory doesn't have the eyeballs, which blows me away, because if there's something exciting, you know, it's a glory event.

[1392] And that Justin Gagie kid, too.

[1393] Oh, what an animal, eh?

[1394] Fucking savage.

[1395] Yeah, he's, uh, pool.

[1396] He's fun.

[1397] That guy's fun.

[1398] Fun to watch.

[1399] I, you know, he should tone a little down, I always say.

[1400] But, you know, maybe it's his fight style and he just wants to go.

[1401] Because sometimes he gets hit hard, and I think eventually, we had that with Clay Gidowls, you know, like fighters, eventually it's going to break.

[1402] Yeah, something's going to give.

[1403] Yeah, you can only get hit hard and just walk through things so much.

[1404] much until eventually your body doesn't cooperate anymore.

[1405] And then, most of the time once that happens, it's going to happen a lot.

[1406] So there's a lot of crazy shit going on right now in MMA.

[1407] The big one to me, the one that I'm most exciting about is March 5th.

[1408] Connor McGregor versus Dosanjans.

[1409] That is a fucking crazy fight.

[1410] First of all, who the hell has ever been like Connor?

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] Well, I mean, the best shit talker of all time, hilarious.

[1413] I'm a love with the guy.

[1414] I love him.

[1415] I love everything about him.

[1416] We had him on the show.

[1417] He's funny.

[1418] You know, everything he does.

[1419] Every speech he does, it's different.

[1420] It's not like he's repeating everything I do.

[1421] Like, if I do an interview before and it's about, let's say, a movie, you know, you say the same thing over and over again.

[1422] But he doesn't.

[1423] No. And he doesn't really use profanity as well, so it keeps it clean, but very imposing.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] You can use it on television.

[1426] Oh, so great, you know.

[1427] How about when he wore the El Chapo shirt?

[1428] Oh, how crazy is he?

[1429] Who does that?

[1430] But you see, but he's make gets in everybody's head yeah that's why he beat the although you could tell you could simply tell everybody can say oh no I'm I'm used to that I grew up on the street Rafael those aren't just says that also I said eventually it's gonna come through you know you got to start doing something back you know there's a few fun things that you always can do Sanjos is not engaging him I like the way Dosangos is handling it he's just letting him talk and he's like when we fight this will not matter yeah you know he's just like solid and stoic I think he's also learning the lesson of how Aldo sort of got rattled by it, and he's not going to get route.

[1431] I think D 'Ozangos is a different guy.

[1432] Dosanjas is...

[1433] He's even doing the Chapo pose.

[1434] Chopo is shaking hands with Sean Penn in that picture.

[1435] He's so fucking crazy.

[1436] I love him.

[1437] God, that guy's fucking awesome.

[1438] It's hilarious.

[1439] And he can fucking fight.

[1440] He can fight.

[1441] He's got great reflexes.

[1442] I mean, his timing is really good.

[1443] He's using his reach really well.

[1444] And the way Faras is a hobby described his left hands.

[1445] Farasa Hobby, by the way, did an amazing breakdown.

[1446] If you're listening to this, go to YouTube.

[1447] Ferasa Hobby, who, in my mind, is one of the true great masters of MMA training.

[1448] He does an amazing breakdown of this fight.

[1449] But the way he describes Connor, he's like he's got the touch of death in that left hand.

[1450] And it's true.

[1451] He just lights guys up with that left hand.

[1452] Plus, it's laser guided, you know.

[1453] It's on target.

[1454] It's not just, he just doesn't hit the head.

[1455] He won't hit your jaw.

[1456] Yeah, he's so accurate.

[1457] So accurate.

[1458] So accurate.

[1459] And so.

[1460] and so beautiful with his footwork, the way he slid out of the way of all those advance and just drop that left hand in.

[1461] But, you know, RDA, this guy, you know, in the beginning, I go, he's always under the radar, right?

[1462] And suddenly he's, boom, he's there, and he's just beating everybody.

[1463] I mean, Caroni, I'd ever expected that.

[1464] He's a monster.

[1465] Yeah, he really is.

[1466] Well, a lot of what's going on, too, is his conditioning is off the charts.

[1467] He's working with Nick Kerson, who's one of the disciples of Marvarenovic, and they've got him doing these crazy explosive pliometric drills and all these footwork drills and if you've ever seen his training routine, you're realizing they got a fucking oxygen mask on him and he's throwing body shots on the bag.

[1468] It's all this incredible, brutal breakdown for strength and conditioning so that he could really go five rounds like that.

[1469] There's no such thing as having enough stamina.

[1470] That's what I always tell everybody.

[1471] There's no such thing.

[1472] You've got to go all the way.

[1473] That's why I trained so hard because I don't want to have that.

[1474] I had the experience in tieboxing one time when I ran out of gas.

[1475] It's not fun.

[1476] And especially, you know, with longer rounds and with an opponent seeing, you know, or he goes, is he getting tired?

[1477] Now they get wings, you know, they turn it on.

[1478] And you're in a bad spot there.

[1479] Yeah, it's the worst thing in the world to see an opponent notice that you're tired and he's not.

[1480] And he's coming after you and he starts dropping low kicks on you and punching you in the face and you can't do anything.

[1481] Your body's not cooperating.

[1482] And it's get worse because then your breathing starts going wrong.

[1483] The breathing pattern is not relaxed anymore.

[1484] You have to start flexing because the punches are coming.

[1485] It'll take your stamina even more away.

[1486] Stamina is a weapon.

[1487] Stamina is a weapon.

[1488] It really is.

[1489] I mean, look at Nick Diaz, who is a guy who fought so many guys and outworked them.

[1490] I mean, the Frank Shamrock fight is a perfect example of that fight.

[1491] He just kept popping him with punches, like 50 % punches, but he's hitting him and he can't breathe.

[1492] Because when a person is punching you, even if they're punching you, even if they're you and it's not full blast, you're still tightening up.

[1493] So you don't get a chance to breathe, and Nick Diaz just doesn't get tired.

[1494] He does ultramarathons.

[1495] The fucking guy swam from Alcatraz twice.

[1496] He's in incredible shape.

[1497] He's done triathlon.

[1498] I don't know if he's done ultramarathons.

[1499] You probably take that back, but swimming from Alcatraz is a fucking crazy endeavor.

[1500] He's done it twice.

[1501] Well, Pettis, for instance, I thought he was never going to lose, and the only times he was losing was against guys with great stamina, you know, Clay Gita and an RDA, who just keep pushing to fight.

[1502] You know?

[1503] Or the grappling.

[1504] The grappling with weed.

[1505] Yeah.

[1506] I think physically Pettis is not strong enough for those guys.

[1507] Guys like Dosanjos that just put it to him or Eddie Alvarez who just put it to him.

[1508] The physical, like they turn it into one of those grueling wrestling matches.

[1509] I mean, I think his take -down defense is pretty good.

[1510] And I think his grappling is not bad.

[1511] I mean, he won the title with an arm bar.

[1512] With an arm bar.

[1513] But I just think physically, when it comes to these grueling exchanges, I just don't know if he's physically strong enough to fight that kind of fight with Legga Dosancho.

[1514] Yep.

[1515] Or even Eddie Avros in that fight.

[1516] Yeah, well, footwork again.

[1517] He's going to need a lot of food work.

[1518] Like a Morias.

[1519] He stops takedowns, but he doesn't even stop and just moves out the way.

[1520] Moves out of the way and lights guys up too.

[1521] And his power too, that's a big thing.

[1522] And Pettus has a lot of power too.

[1523] I mean, I'm not counting Pettus out.

[1524] Pettus could easily come back and win the title again.

[1525] I mean, he's a monster.

[1526] Yep.

[1527] But I never expected him to lose.

[1528] I thought, because he's this complete package.

[1529] He will see a great striker, great submissions, take down the fence.

[1530] I go, okay, this is the guy.

[1531] Put him on the weedy box.

[1532] He put away Soroni even better and more impressive than Dosanjos.

[1533] Yeah, that was the craziest thing.

[1534] Dosangos, he hurt Soroni and battered him up against the cage.

[1535] But I thought the stoppage was so weird because he looked at the referee and he's telling the referee to stop the fight.

[1536] And Dosanos has Soroni.

[1537] Soronis turtled up and he's still covering up.

[1538] I don't know when a fight should be stopped in that situation.

[1539] When a guy's, a guy gets hurt to the body.

[1540] He's obviously hurt.

[1541] But Dosangos is hitting him and Cowboys.

[1542] covering up.

[1543] Like, when do you stop a fight?

[1544] Like, if a guy's covering up and you're hitting his arms, like, he's trying to get back up to his feet, like, when does a fight get stopped?

[1545] When is it okay?

[1546] Because some referees wouldn't have stopped the fight.

[1547] Yeah, no, you're right.

[1548] Here's a perfect example, right?

[1549] Chris Wyden versus Luke Rockhold.

[1550] When Luke Rockhold got on top of Chris Wyden at the end of the round, was beating the fuck out of him, I was saying they should stop that fight.

[1551] I'm like, he's not defending himself.

[1552] But I, like, that's not the same as like the cowboy Saroni Los Angeles fight.

[1553] I'm like, man, that's, That was a little bit of a more controversial stop.

[1554] Yeah, because it's still under the defense.

[1555] Yeah.

[1556] No, they shouldn't stop.

[1557] What else is he going to do?

[1558] If he doesn't cover up, he's going to get hit with a punch.

[1559] So he's got to cover up.

[1560] And when you're covering up and the guys, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, there's not a lot you can do.

[1561] Because you've got to put your hand down to get up.

[1562] And if you put your hand down to get up, you're going to get tagged.

[1563] Yep.

[1564] So it's kind of, it's almost like a guy can have a fight stopped without you being in real trouble.

[1565] Although Cowboy was certainly in trouble.

[1566] Yep.

[1567] But it's a weird little.

[1568] kind of a, it's up to, it's so subjective, you know, it's up to the referee to the side.

[1569] It's a very hard decision.

[1570] That's why I don't want to be a referee.

[1571] It's a very hard It's a worst decision to make.

[1572] It really is.

[1573] It's never good.

[1574] You're never great.

[1575] But you're there for the safety of the fighters.

[1576] If they don't, you know, they're on the ground, they don't defend them.

[1577] I say stop right away.

[1578] If they really, because they don't, that's why they're doing it.

[1579] Right.

[1580] I mean, you know how like a big Johnny tells me, and I I've seen him doing it against the fighters in the dressing room, he'll tell him, do not come to me after the fight that if you lay on the ground and a guy hit you and you're just bogging up, I will stop the fight.

[1581] And he says it two or three times.

[1582] Do not come to me after the fight and complain about it because you know right now improve your position.

[1583] And sometimes you don't see that.

[1584] Also with, for instance, guillotine attempts or you see guys who defend the guillotine, like you're standing still.

[1585] And I go, don't defend the guillotine, you know, go for position.

[1586] Make sure that you get close.

[1587] You hold a head to make sure he doesn't jump guard because if you defend, Well, look at Pat Militage against Hansel in the IFL.

[1588] He was defending the choke, and he's a jumps guard.

[1589] Now he's got him.

[1590] Rhonda Rousey against Karmouche.

[1591] You know, she's got that crazy crank on her head.

[1592] And instead of defending, well, people say, oh, defend the defendant.

[1593] No, no, she didn't.

[1594] She's in the position.

[1595] She grabbed the foot, feet, unlocked the feet, and she got out.

[1596] She took a chance.

[1597] She took a chance.

[1598] And that's what people should do.

[1599] On the ground also, they say to me, yeah, but if they hit you, I say, escape.

[1600] Buck up, move to this.

[1601] If you buck up, they're going to have to look for balance.

[1602] Make sure they never sit on your chest.

[1603] Push them always to your belly.

[1604] If you can push him to your belly, you hold the knees and you push yourself upwards.

[1605] Same result.

[1606] He's sitting on your belly.

[1607] But you got to move.

[1608] How easy it is for you, if somebody mounts you to put him in at least a half guard?

[1609] Well, you got to train that.

[1610] It's really easy, right?

[1611] I think a lot of guys don't train off their back that much.

[1612] It's the craziest thing.

[1613] It drives me nuts.

[1614] Get him in the guard, man. A mount position, it shouldn't even be happening.

[1615] You never go to the side.

[1616] Mount position, when they can stop you, is only when they can stop you.

[1617] They stretch you out, they hook their feet, you know, but then there's not a lot they can do because you just stop their arms.

[1618] Well, it's interesting when you see different levels of their game off their back, like Brian Ortega.

[1619] Have you been watching that guy fight?

[1620] Jesus, fucking Christ, his triangles are good.

[1621] His guard game is so good.

[1622] And he's one of those guys.

[1623] He's like a gold standard for how to fight off your back.

[1624] When they get him on his back, he is just attacking, attacking.

[1625] You're not going to get him stagnant where he's just lying there.

[1626] waiting for the referee to stand them back up.

[1627] That's it.

[1628] And when you've got that kind of a ground game off your back, it's a totally new dimension for your opponents.

[1629] They're used to taking a guy down and maybe throwing some body punches.

[1630] With him, you're fucking defending the whole time.

[1631] Legs are up on your neck and you've got to try to posture up and get out of there.

[1632] That's the gold standard, and that's what everybody should aspire to to have that kind of a dangerous ground game.

[1633] Yep, that's why I thought, for instance, Johnny Hendricks versus Wonderboy?

[1634] No, no, no, no. Oh my God.

[1635] How can I forget him?

[1636] Carlos Caldardt.

[1637] The National Bullkinner was going to say.

[1638] I mean, I thought Condit won that because he's constantly attacking on the ground.

[1639] You know?

[1640] And if somebody's on top of you and you hit you once every what time, that shouldn't count.

[1641] If the strike on defeat, if it goes to a decision and nobody gets really hurt, but the guy who's constantly attacking is going to win the fight, right?

[1642] Right.

[1643] Okay, so why doesn't that count on the ground?

[1644] Yeah, I agree.

[1645] Just because the guy's on top doesn't mean he's winning.

[1646] No. How about the fact that that's how you won the title versus Kevin Raymond?

[1647] Oh, yeah.

[1648] Random took you down.

[1649] That was not even with submission at that.

[1650] But like, man, there was...

[1651] Well, Randomly took you down and you just kept attacking from your back.

[1652] Yeah, that's what McCarthy said later, I didn't put him back on the feet because boss was working from his back.

[1653] That was the reason they didn't put us back on the feet.

[1654] But, you know, if you have a guy like Carlos Connett, or what you saw a lot at pride, also great groundwork and a constant.

[1655] attacking and then they get rewarded for that after the fight they actually win the fight and it should be because people go yeah but the defense is also no no it's not about the defense same as the strike it's not about that you know it's about the guy who takes the chances because we all know if you have somebody in the guard you go for an umbar there's a high possibility there's going to be a side mount now that's a worst position for you so you're taking risks and if you're willing to take those risks they should be rewarded well i also like pride i like that 10 minute first round that was good uh makes it makes it more strategical Yeah.

[1656] You really can't burn out in the beginning.

[1657] That was the thing with pancreas in the beginning, but 30 -minute fights.

[1658] That's why the ars came on my hand, because that means rustic, which is relax, because I was such a hot hat in Thai boxing, like somebody hits me. Oh, dude, my, I just knock them out, you know.

[1659] And I go, man, these Japanese guys are known to for being tough.

[1660] If this happens the first three minutes, I get 27 more minutes to go.

[1661] You know, if I'm empty, that's not a good thing.

[1662] So stay calm, stay calm.

[1663] You start being more strategical.

[1664] So pancreas, was there any rounds Or was it just 30 minute?

[1665] At the end In the end There were a few Like the undercutter were 10 minutes fights But most of the time Everything was 15 minutes And the title fights in the end was 30 In the beginning, the first year and a half It was all 30 minutes, one round Yeah Wow Yeah Yeah, that's a real strategic fight I'm a fan of that though I like that I like that too But you know And again if you look at some UFC fights Red Age is lay LA LA LA LA Then, you know, in the old days, you remember, without the stand -ups, yeah, then it becomes kind of boring.

[1666] But that was one of the things when I moved to Pancras, I always tell this story.

[1667] But when I saw my opponent, he was 45 pounds a year.

[1668] And I asked when the weigh -in was, he says, there's no way in.

[1669] He said, we, everybody fights everybody.

[1670] I go, oh, that's great, nice.

[1671] I was just bluffing, of course.

[1672] And I go, okay, so how many rounds we got?

[1673] One round, one round, awesome.

[1674] How many minutes?

[1675] 30.

[1676] You go, awesome, awesome.

[1677] And I look at my manager.

[1678] I go, dude, 30 -minute fight.

[1679] 45 more pounds of me. As opposed to a three -minute kickboxing fight.

[1680] That's what I was thinking.

[1681] Three -minute round for kickboxing.

[1682] I came from kickboxing, yeah.

[1683] So, yeah, that opened my eyes a little bit there.

[1684] And you become more strategical.

[1685] That's a good thing.

[1686] Well, it's also good for grapplers.

[1687] When they work, like, say if you have a five -minute fight or a five -minute round, and you work for four minutes and 30 seconds to get the fight to the ground, you only have 30 seconds to try to secure a submission.

[1688] Whereas if you take a guy to the ground at a 10 -minute fight and you're four -minute and 30 seconds, now you have five minutes and 30 seconds to.

[1689] to try to finish them, which is a lot of time.

[1690] Yeah, but, you know, there's always the other side of the medal, you know, you can say, well, they should have taken them down sooner.

[1691] Yeah.

[1692] Or these guys say, yeah, but I just need more work on the ground.

[1693] Well, just go faster.

[1694] This is the game.

[1695] You have to adapt, not the other way around.

[1696] Yeah.

[1697] Well, you can definitely look at it that way.

[1698] What do you think about Fabricio Verdom returning against Kane?

[1699] I think it's going to be a great fight.

[1700] I think, again, okay, we know that Staminaw played big factor.

[1701] But for Doom, man, he's only been on an arrow that's going straight up since pride.

[1702] Yeah.

[1703] I mean, always that fight that he lost against Alistair, really lose.

[1704] I think if you would count the punches and the kicks that Alistair get in, because I was afraid at that time, because I was at Alster's, he was a big friend of mine at the time.

[1705] And I go, oh, because Verdum hit him more.

[1706] Yeah.

[1707] Connected more.

[1708] Only, you know.

[1709] Well, Verdum blew his knee out too in that fight.

[1710] Yeah, see, so.

[1711] And Ferdum's striking now with Cordero.

[1712] They're just working really well together.

[1713] Same with RDA and everybody there.

[1714] They're doing just a phenomenal job.

[1715] O 'Field Cordero is just what a great striking coach that guy is.

[1716] He's done an amazing job.

[1717] Yeah, because you can talk to the guy.

[1718] They barbecue together today.

[1719] You know, he's there in your best interest.

[1720] That's Dwayne Ludwig.

[1721] Same guy, the late Sean Tompkins.

[1722] All these guys there are all the way there.

[1723] I remember stories with Sean.

[1724] We would come home partying five, six in the morning.

[1725] He would go straight.

[1726] If it was the day of the way in, straight to the sauna with the guys, putting him, helping him focus mitts if they wanted to lose, right?

[1727] He never, ever missed the beat, you know?

[1728] And like, Dwayne has it also.

[1729] A lot of trainers have that, but there's a whole bunch of trainers you know as well as I do who don't have that.

[1730] Yeah, well, you've got to be completely obsessed to be a great train.

[1731] I mean, that's what makes Ludwig so good.

[1732] He's completely obsessed.

[1733] Yes.

[1734] And that those are the, I mean, it's the same with a fighter.

[1735] It's the same with anything.

[1736] If you're not completely obsessed, you're just not going to reach your potential.

[1737] That's it.

[1738] You need to like it all.

[1739] Also, I was talking about that yesterday.

[1740] It's, you can have all the talent if you don't like it.

[1741] If you hear fighters, which blows my mind always when I hear Quentin, for instance, says, I hate training.

[1742] And I go, wow, I love training.

[1743] I want to get tired.

[1744] I want to try new stuff.

[1745] I always loved it.

[1746] Until the end, when I got my tendonites and everything started hurting really, really bad.

[1747] You know, then you can't even think straight anymore.

[1748] That's when I stopped.

[1749] But before that, I always loved it.

[1750] And if you love something, you know, same in school.

[1751] you were a kid.

[1752] You know, math?

[1753] Well, I don't even math, but you were good at the things that you liked.

[1754] Your biology, oh, I love biology.

[1755] Boom, ace.

[1756] You know, it's all the things that you like, you automatically do your best for.

[1757] It's simple.

[1758] Yeah, if you're a passionate person, if you're passionate about what you're pursuing, you're going to do better than a person who's just doing it as a job.

[1759] And Quentin has so much talent.

[1760] I mean, and unbelievable power.

[1761] He's got a fantastic chin.

[1762] Yeah, right away, erona pops up, right?

[1763] Always.

[1764] Oh, my God.

[1765] Always.

[1766] When you talk about Quinn is the first, and he arched even back He didn't go straight up.

[1767] He actually went a little further and then he slammed him.

[1768] That was the most spectacular slam -cao in the history of MMA.

[1769] Ricardo O 'Rona had him locked up in a triangle and Quentin slammed him into oblivion and headbutted him too on the way down.

[1770] I mean inadvertent headbutt.

[1771] Yeah.

[1772] But slammed him and then bam boom.

[1773] Then his head slammed into him too.

[1774] Oh my God.

[1775] That was a horrific fight.

[1776] Ricardo never recovered from that fight.

[1777] Well, Ricardo, I read a cool story about Kevin Rendellman.

[1778] He was talking, I read it on Sherdog that he said, he just fought Kevin, and he won.

[1779] He says, I was in the dressing room by myself.

[1780] In Japan, there was nobody there.

[1781] And, you know, I was just taken in.

[1782] He said, because I would just won the most important fight of my career.

[1783] And he said, suddenly he sees his shadow, and he thinks it was Renalman.

[1784] So he automatically, he said, at that time, everybody was fighting.

[1785] It was before, after, it didn't really matter.

[1786] It was this fighting thing.

[1787] And Rendleman came in, and he thought there was going to be a fight.

[1788] And Rennelman walked up to him and he said, dude, great job.

[1789] Congratulations.

[1790] You know, you're awesome.

[1791] And he blew me away, he said, right away I saw the monster as a different person.

[1792] That's so hard now also with Rennelman.

[1793] You know him.

[1794] Everybody who knows him is such a good guy.

[1795] Yeah, he was a great guy.

[1796] He was a really friendly, happy -go -lucky guy.

[1797] It's so unfortunate.

[1798] You know, I don't know what happened with him.

[1799] And what happened with Sean Tompkins?

[1800] How did Sean wind up dying?

[1801] You know, this was the saddest thing ever because when I went to the funeral, he was in the coffin.

[1802] I didn't want to see that.

[1803] I did that one time with a friend of mine.

[1804] I didn't like that.

[1805] So I said, I don't want to do it.

[1806] And his mother, it was so sad, man. She came to me crying.

[1807] And she said, he was home.

[1808] And that weekend, she was going to tell him that he had to go to the doctor because in the family, it runs in the family that I have enlarged hearts.

[1809] And he needs to check that out.

[1810] And that was what was going down there.

[1811] It was no drugs, no, not because people started, of course, the conspiracy theories didn't find anything, find anything.

[1812] And the crazy thing was I talked the day before with Sean.

[1813] It was so weird because then you guys announced it on USC.

[1814] And it was, I go, whoa, Sean.

[1815] So I started Googling.

[1816] But it was so weird.

[1817] He texted me something.

[1818] And I thought, for some reason, I thought, oh, he wants to talk to me. Because normally we would text.

[1819] So I picked up the phone and I called him.

[1820] and he was going out with Muscle Beach one of our friends that we call him Muscle Beach and he was he, Muscle Beach was drunk and he says, I can't leave a man behind I'm going to stay with him, you know, I'm going to make sure he's going to be okay.

[1821] Boom and he kept going boss, Buzz and the problem that I was reading about didn't even come up.

[1822] We started talking about everything.

[1823] It was a great great time.

[1824] He says, boss I love you.

[1825] You know that I really love you and then finally when we hang up he starts texting you know that I love you the whole team Tompkins loves you.

[1826] It was really weird.

[1827] He never did that.

[1828] And the next day he passed away.

[1829] Wow.

[1830] So it was almost like he felt that it was going to happen.

[1831] Wow.

[1832] Yeah.

[1833] That's crazy.

[1834] That's crazy.

[1835] Yeah, he was another guy that was really loved by the guys that he trained.

[1836] Those relationships between trainers and students, trainers and fighters, they're so important.

[1837] You know, and it's so hard for a fighter to find the right trainer, the right trainer that fits their personality, someone who's technical.

[1838] You know, someone who has also that emotional bond.

[1839] That's the thing.

[1840] The 100 % commitment.

[1841] That's the thing.

[1842] Being a fighter, it sounds cool, and that's why a lot of guys don't make it because they only want to look cool.

[1843] You don't really fight for to fight.

[1844] Like once the fighters start fighting for money, you know, don't do that.

[1845] Then it's going downhill.

[1846] Yeah, but I need a paycheck.

[1847] Then don't fight.

[1848] Find another job.

[1849] You need that commitment.

[1850] You need 100%.

[1851] And that's the same with the trainers.

[1852] You know, you can be off for a little bit because this guy.

[1853] is going to go in the ring or in the cage.

[1854] Yeah.

[1855] And you have to make sure it's going to stay safe.

[1856] Yeah, when you see a fighter that's only fighting for the paycheck, it very rarely works out, which is very rarely work.

[1857] Not at a championship level.

[1858] You know, I mean, it might be okay at a journeyman level.

[1859] You might pull it off if you're tough and you're skilled.

[1860] But to beat the best guys, you have to be obsessed.

[1861] Like the best guys are obsessed.

[1862] Yeah, you want to be the best.

[1863] It's not about the payday.

[1864] I said, that will come if you are the best.

[1865] The payday will be better But focus on getting good And fighting for yourself, I always say You know, don't put your family Of number one spot I understand you want to do that But you know, once you start That means that you care, care, care It's a very How you say it?

[1866] It's selfish, it should be selfish You should be, I fight for me I don't care The way I explain it to my students When they, for instance, they're nervous I say, okay, let's take a step back imagine your opponent now and you go in a room they lock the room and you guys are going to compete against each other whoever wins it doesn't matter who wins but the door opens you both of you are not going to say who won or lost nobody's going to say do you really care if you lose at that moment and he goes like no yeah because no because yeah he's just a better fighter right I said so why do you care and then they start realizing ah it's because the people oh but he might think this and he might think this and see and that's why I always say fight for yourself.

[1867] If you lose, you give it you all, you are always a winner.

[1868] It doesn't matter.

[1869] You know what bad is?

[1870] Not going all the way, not using all your potential and then lose because you didn't do that.

[1871] That's something that after a fight you're going to say, oh, man, I could have gone harder.

[1872] So why didn't you?

[1873] Just leave it all out there.

[1874] And if you leave it all out there, there's no excuses.

[1875] And every other fighter will really enjoy you.

[1876] Winning or losing.

[1877] How many fighters you have who never became a champion, but I'll hear all the other fighters.

[1878] us talking about them, say, oh, you fight him?

[1879] Oh, dude, really?

[1880] That guy's crazy.

[1881] Yeah, you better prepare now because it's going to be a nightmare to fight that guy.

[1882] You see, that's what I think is the most important.

[1883] If you pierce, like it the way you fight, you're good.

[1884] You can't really lose.

[1885] Yeah, like a guy like Chuck Lidale, like where he has that incredible fan base because he always fought with everything he had.

[1886] Yep.

[1887] And whether he lost by knockout or won by knockout, people still loved him.

[1888] That's it.

[1889] Didn't lose a fan.

[1890] I always used Chuck as an example.

[1891] And that's what every, and I tell my students, look at Chuck L. I want you to be like that.

[1892] Leave it out there, you know.

[1893] I just want you to listen a little bit more, because if I would get in Chuck's head, you know, as soon as Chuck hits somebody, that's the same with Benji Raddock, they have one vision, and that's the knockout.

[1894] And they forget about the rest.

[1895] Defense.

[1896] Defense.

[1897] And I say, as soon as you hit somebody, step back.

[1898] You're going to have some time.

[1899] Don't worry.

[1900] but you just hit the head okay what is he going to protect now the head go for the body do a cross who cross to the body nobody does that but do it as hard as you can cross through cross and then left hook to the head bah bah boom suddenly there's a left hook to the head if you do the cross who cross as hard as you can you will force them to block it which will open up for the left hook to the head same as with the body body head you know buddy buddy buddy head and they go p p p p p p p boom I said yeah it won't work like that you see a rickover hoover who does his first mixed martialist fight, body, boom, body, boom, and then the head.

[1901] Now, with the first two body shots, if this guy doesn't block him, he's going to get knocked out to the body.

[1902] So now he respects your power.

[1903] That's what Mike Tyson did.

[1904] Spleen might uppercut.

[1905] He hits you so hard on the spleen that the second time when he loads up, he thinks it's going to be the same punch, but then he changed his angle to an uppercut, and his defense is here for the spleen shot.

[1906] If you do it powerful and hard, it will work.

[1907] but if you do a body body head it's not going to work make everything count yeah a lot of guys are trying to conserve their energy yeah I did after a workout I would put the back on the ground and I would 30 minutes just go punching on a back on the ground rolling in the guard keeping hit you don't get tired from that come on guys you don't really get tired there's nothing there you can just go what is you going to do if he's on his back he's going to hit you back he's not going to hit you back you got to watch out for submissions but that's not going to get you in trouble with your stamina, just go, just go.

[1908] Do you think now, like looking back when you have these tendinitis and all these other issues, were you too tough for your body?

[1909] Is that what it is?

[1910] No. What I think is that because I was so sick as a kid that they overflowed me with cortisones.

[1911] I had so many cortisones.

[1912] I believe it was like 46 pills a day I took.

[1913] You know, I had really bad skin disease, asthma.

[1914] So I had a lot of stuff that I took for that.

[1915] And the test they did on me. I mean, every week I had to go get 20 shots, 10 shots in each arm.

[1916] What they would do, they would inject a little tiny bit of where you were allergic for.

[1917] And then hopefully, it's like the flu vaccine, hopefully the body finds a way to counterattack that.

[1918] But every time when they do that, I'll be sick.

[1919] So I needed to recoup from that the whole time.

[1920] And I think eventually the cortisones, because they're really bad for the bones.

[1921] tendons.

[1922] I think the cortisones really got my tendinitis.

[1923] That's the reason.

[1924] Wow.

[1925] That's interesting.

[1926] I never heard that before.

[1927] I never heard of anybody having, well, I never heard of anybody having that many shots as a kid and then going on to be a world championship fighter.

[1928] Yeah, me neither.

[1929] And the craziest thing is that when I was young, I did track and field, and I did it at a pretty high level already, because I wanted to be the next Bruce Jenner at the time.

[1930] He was my hero.

[1931] You know, I mean, that's how old I was.

[1932] He was the guy, the decathlon guy.

[1933] That's what I wanted to do.

[1934] And I remember, in the end, every time with Javelin, I had, I already had that tendonitis.

[1935] And I started recognizing that.

[1936] And I don't know why it stayed away my entire career and came back only at the end.

[1937] It's got to be the gods of God telling me, okay, it's good.

[1938] You become a fighter, you know.

[1939] But for some reason, at the end, it came back.

[1940] But I remember the pain when I was 14 years old.

[1941] Do you have a desire to train, like, championship level fighters?

[1942] because I see, like, you're talking about what guys don't do correctly and what you would like to see them do.

[1943] Like, do you have this desire to get involved with someone who's, like, really trying to make a run out of the title?

[1944] No, you know, I enjoy things like, for instance, Rico Verhoover came in last week.

[1945] Love that guy.

[1946] You know, yeah, because he's an athlete, not just the martial arts.

[1947] Glory heavyweight champion.

[1948] An athlete, glory heavyweight champion.

[1949] Amazing kickboxer.

[1950] So when he said he was going to do MMA, I sent him an email right away, I said, listen, Rico, come to me. Give me two hours of my time.

[1951] I'll show you things that's going to be very, very helpful for you.

[1952] I'm not looking to be a coach because I don't have the time for that.

[1953] I'm way too busy for that.

[1954] But I can get you in two hours.

[1955] I can get you a lot of information.

[1956] Or like, for instance, John Jones, a while back, I was interviewing him and then he said right away, I was in Albuquerque, what are you going to do after this?

[1957] I said to my hotel, he said, man, do you want to train me?

[1958] You see, those are guys who really want to learn.

[1959] Then once you start learning, and these guys listen, and then suddenly they start being more explosive with kicking and punching, they go like, dude, this is crazy.

[1960] you know like sound effects I do a lot at high -pitched sound effects if you see somebody for instance if you do the focus mitts or you hit a bag you go bum -pam -pam -pam one two three four like that punch and so if you just stop and you go in your mind you go just do that and then just by doing that your body automatically will adapt and will get more explosive and he realized that and he goes wow and the next week or two weeks later we had Greg Jackson on the show and Greg tells me he says man what what have you been teaching and I said what do you mean he says everybody makes these crazy son I said do they hit faster and harder and he goes yeah I say so be it you know so it really works to get in people's heads yeah and then if you have an athlete like a subal athlete like Jones who will listen to you yeah that's that's gold but if a guy like that came to you if a guy like that came to you and said listen boss I want you to train me Is that something you would be interested in doing?

[1961] Yeah, it's going to be hard.

[1962] It depends.

[1963] You know, the Division, now, the new podcast, all the gym.

[1964] I mean, there's so much stuff the World Series of Fighting that I suddenly cannot do because then we've got to have the 100 % commitment.

[1965] Right.

[1966] You know?

[1967] I like a lot because I'm a very basic guy.

[1968] Everything is the basics with me because everybody forgets the basics.

[1969] So most of the time when somebody comes out, like Tim Sylvia a while ago, he came to my gym and he threw the left hook wrong and I tell him I said man this can be way harder and he started learning to throw the hook without loading up and he won his fight in 15 seconds with the left hook he goes this is crazy it works that I enjoy to give him an hour time and show them what they do wrong and then if they actually listen to it they realize why wait a minute I got more power you know I don't try to change the style I just show them how you get maximum power and if you mix that up between your styles that's up to you but I see you have this incredible passion about this.

[1970] Oh, yeah, I love it.

[1971] About improving guys and about working on technique.

[1972] That's why I'm curious, like, have you ever thought about, like, just going into training?

[1973] Yeah, it's...

[1974] It's too busy?

[1975] Too busy, but also, I don't know anymore, but, you know, a lot of guys that you do over the years, and you put a lot, you invest a lot of time in.

[1976] And it doesn't work out.

[1977] And it doesn't work out, or they get a better deal somewhere else, and they just leave you.

[1978] And you see this with a lot of fighters, you know, and trainers.

[1979] And finally the trainer has something, or a manager, and then they just kick out.

[1980] him to the side because I'm going to save 10 % here I'm going to do it.

[1981] You know then but then again those guys most of the time you see him losing you know because you broke the winning combination.

[1982] If you have something my stretching routine and everybody always says please post it because you always talk about this.

[1983] My stretching routine is the same as it was when I started in 93 well that's probably even before with my karate and they say you never changed that I said no I never changed that why wouldn't you do more?

[1984] I said because with that stretching routine I never had a problem Why would I change it?

[1985] They never give me a problem in training.

[1986] You see?

[1987] So now if I start adding things or subtracting things and suddenly I get injured, it's just my own fault.

[1988] I had a winning combination, always helped me. Let's not break that.

[1989] Let's keep it the same.

[1990] And that's with everything.

[1991] Yeah, it's just, I know that you have your gym in Thousand Oaks.

[1992] Yep.

[1993] You know, what's it called?

[1994] The Westlake Village, a boss -ruthan's elite MMA.

[1995] And it's mostly recreational people.

[1996] Is that what it is?

[1997] That's it.

[1998] Yeah, Tuesdays, Thursdays.

[1999] I'm there at 6 o 'clock.

[2000] What kind of class do you teach up there?

[2001] Tuesdays is mostly striking.

[2002] Only striking.

[2003] On Thursdays, I start with ground, but only like for 20 minutes because people want to work out.

[2004] Right.

[2005] Like the fighter, if I do fight classes with the fighters, yeah, we do a lot of grounds with escapes and reversals.

[2006] I always start like that.

[2007] That's how I trained.

[2008] I never started on my knees with grappling.

[2009] I always lay on my back and I tell my partner, you can take any position you want.

[2010] That's so important.

[2011] It's so important.

[2012] It's the most important thing for a striker.

[2013] spot, put yourself in a bad spot and figure out how to be comfortable in those bad spots and work out of them all the time.

[2014] That's it.

[2015] You know, and with basics, I had a student one time coming over to me and after class and he said, boss, you know what's funny?

[2016] I said, tell me. He says, I've been working here now for three years and you're teaching the same stuff.

[2017] I say, yeah, that is funny.

[2018] I say, you want to hear something more funny.

[2019] And he goes, yeah, I say, you're still not doing it.

[2020] And the reason I'm doing this is because of people like you.

[2021] Because you guys don't listen.

[2022] That's funny.

[2023] around yeah they don't they don't do it everybody forget the basics they all want to do the spinning backings to the head and the back fist and the crazy elbows and doing that forget about basic stuff a simple one two how many times in boxing you see a knockout highest level on the planet yeah a one two will do the trick it's just the timing and when you throw it the timing the efficiency of the technique and having it down where you own it yeah that's it yeah so you're enjoying teaching you enjoy teaching a couple times a week you enjoy doing that that's why I'm doing it.

[2024] And your striking class are guys sparring in there?

[2025] Are they mostly just working on technique?

[2026] It's all technique.

[2027] And my classes, you go, like you see girls that have in my class when I saw the double left, double right, I can tell them any combination.

[2028] And people who are watching, they go like, whoa, what is this?

[2029] But they've been with me for a while.

[2030] And they're very technical, you know, and they do really well with the striking.

[2031] Like yesterday, again, they were laughing about it.

[2032] These two girls always work together.

[2033] Laura and Dana, they're really good.

[2034] They're probably going to listen to this also.

[2035] But I said, listen, everybody throws a low kick at the end, for instance, a combination with the low kick.

[2036] But once you do that in a class, the low kick, they have their hands always down.

[2037] So I let them do it to me that combination.

[2038] And just before they make the low kick, I stretch my hand in front of the face.

[2039] And I say, I want everybody to do this because I just walked around, I said, and there were only three people from the like the 22 or 24 people there were doing it.

[2040] You know, just keep your hands up.

[2041] You don't have to hit him.

[2042] Just make him be aware that that could be a punch.

[2043] You know, keep your hands up.

[2044] And I walked over and they said, were we one of the three?

[2045] I said, you know you were one of the three.

[2046] Because you guys are always doing it.

[2047] You see, it's just a habit.

[2048] Make a good habit and don't lose the habit.

[2049] But unfortunately, a lot of guys lose it.

[2050] Now, what is this podcast you're doing with Morrow?

[2051] I mean, that was one of the reasons why you guys wanted to come in here together.

[2052] And like you said, unfortunately, Morrow got sick.

[2053] But you guys are doing a podcast together.

[2054] We're doing a podcast, Rutan and Ronello.

[2055] It's called Rutan and Ronello.

[2056] And it's on iTunes, SoundCloud.

[2057] It's everywhere.

[2058] It's a really fun.

[2059] People have no clue who Morrow really is.

[2060] You know, they start now because that pickpies on Shurdoch, you know, he's bipolar, you know, and he goes up and down.

[2061] But the guy is a genius.

[2062] Like there's no prompters, no nothing.

[2063] He just shoots, like Kenny Rice, for instance.

[2064] Same, you know, they have a brain.

[2065] You can ask him about a horse in the 19, freaking 89, and he will know in the name and it is.

[2066] That's it with Morrow.

[2067] And I told you the story before here with the.

[2068] pro wrestling the gig that he now has and the people are raving about him everywhere all even the pro wrestlers say did you're the best guy i ever had and i told access tv when once they hire mowro and george burnett to do the pro wrestling new japan pro wrestling on access tv uh i told him i say you watch maro's going to work for the w w after they hear him doing this he's going to get a job mark my words well he's doing everything now he's not just doing that he's doing showtime boxing he did a bunch of glory fights.

[2069] Oh, this is your, uh, this is our landing page.

[2070] Beautiful.

[2071] Yeah.

[2072] Root and Rinaloa.

[2073] Routen.

[2074] How many episodes have you guys done so far?

[2075] Seven tomorrow.

[2076] Tomorrow's the seventh and tomorrow is dedicated to Kevin.

[2077] Kevin Rennelman, we're going to have his wife on, Mark Coleman on, and we're going to talk about his life and all the funny things.

[2078] I mean, I got such a crazy stories with Kevin.

[2079] I mean, I went to his wedding with my whole family and it was so my family to destroy it.

[2080] I mean, they want to go with us to the funeral everything was you know it was so sad the next day after the wedding we were all at the pool people laying there a little hung over you know and then suddenly there was a volleyball net and somebody started to play volley and you know all these competitive guys there suddenly there's big teams on each side with the kids you know and we're going to town and everybody's waterfilling it was such a good time we had such a great time and then you know things like a thing like this happens it's really upsetting it is yep it is he was truly was a great guy I mean all my interactions with him where he's always laughing and smile and hugging people and I remember I ran into Kevin once we were at the fights it was a smaller organization there was some fights going on in Vegas and Kevin and I ran into each other at the concession stand and he gives me this big hug what's up man how you doing man and then other people were coming over and it's just fans fans coming on hey what's up Kevin he was like hey you doing man hugging everybody and smile I'm like, what a fucking jovial guy.

[2081] You know, the first time I fought him, right?

[2082] We fought and only met one time the fight before when he beat Maurice Smith for to make the picture in the case and it became the poster later.

[2083] That was the only time I met him.

[2084] So now I'm in the hotel and I think it's before the way in.

[2085] I'm waiting for the elevator.

[2086] I'm by myself.

[2087] The elevator door opens and there is, he is, and he doesn't go out.

[2088] He needs to be in there.

[2089] So I get in and the elevator close.

[2090] Now we're with the two of us in the elevator.

[2091] And I'm looking, but I can't see his face, you know, in the mirror reflection there.

[2092] and he already has a smirk on his face and I'm smirk and I look at him and I go you know good luck tomorrow and he goes thank you he says you too and I go yeah thank you and I will look and he says if you keep your feet on the floor I promise you I won't take you down and I go really yeah okay okay you know so the door opens and he gets out no I don't know this crazy guy so I do if you keep your feet on the floor so no kicks That's a crazy deal.

[2093] Yeah, right?

[2094] That's a strange deal.

[2095] And so in the fight, the fight starts, and you'll see in the fight once it starts, the first thing he does, he slaps his tie, like, kick me. Right.

[2096] So now I'm confused.

[2097] So I go, oh, wait, he's going to think I gave him a low kick.

[2098] So I'm going to act like he give him a low kick, but gave him a front kick to the face.

[2099] So if he wants to time it to take me down, I'm going to get him square in the face So I I make a front kick and it goes Just in front of it and he's backing up I just miss him with the front kick to the face And I see something in his eyes And I till this day I couldn't Or till this day till a while after I couldn't figure what it was But in his mind he of course thought I thought we said we're not going to kick You know but he did that Slapping thing on his tie So it threw me off I thought like oh now he wants me to kick him Okay so I guess that whole thing was Not real, let's start kicking, you know?

[2100] But he got me because I kicked, he took me down.

[2101] And then only that front kick, it missed.

[2102] He backed up, like, oh, it would have been fun.

[2103] Well, there's always gamesmanship, you know.

[2104] Yeah.

[2105] It's definitely a lot of that.

[2106] Oh, I was talking to him the whole time, Big John wrote it in his book, because that was literally, people were booing because laying on the ground, I say, listen, man, I think the defense would like it much better if he'd stand back up.

[2107] I'm trying to negotiate with him.

[2108] to go back on the feet, you know?

[2109] And he goes, nah, let's stay here.

[2110] That's hilarious.

[2111] Yeah, it's a good guy.

[2112] Yeah, he was a great guy.

[2113] Yeah, he was a great guy.

[2114] You know, you guys were a part of the early days of MMA.

[2115] I mean, you are one of the original pioneers of this sport, without a doubt.

[2116] I mean, your fight with Tiosha Kosaka, for the longest time I had that poster.

[2117] There was a poster for the, you're announcing your fight with Toshu Kossaka, said the world's greatest martial artist, boss rooting.

[2118] That's how they announced you.

[2119] I mean, they were building you up because you were like one of the first really elite strikers to fight in MMA, you know?

[2120] Yeah, they always said, I said they messed up right there on that post and they forgot the world looking, the world's greatest looking martial arts.

[2121] I told them that, but they forgot that word.

[2122] El Guapo.

[2123] Yeah, it was a good time.

[2124] Oh, man, when you look back on it, I mean, it's got to be pretty amazing.

[2125] The time that you came along, I mean, from becoming the king of pancreas, from entering into the UFC and being the UFC heavyweight champion like what what number was that UFC 18 and 20 20 I became the champ wow yeah almost at 200 now that's incredible it's crazy you know that that why it was such a great honor the the Hall of Fame when they said also the pioneer section yeah because the pioneer section is a section that will only grow so far yeah it will not meet so even in 2 ,000 years from now if this keeps going and it comes whatever it becomes a new olympics but it doesn't matter we were always the one of the ones that started it, you know, and that's a cool thing.

[2126] It is a cool thing.

[2127] I mean, it's crazy also that this is the oldest sport in the world, really, fighting.

[2128] It is.

[2129] It is the oldest form of competition, but it's also the newest sport, because there's no sport from 1993, which is when the UFC first started.

[2130] There's no sport from then that has exploded, a new sport that came along in 1993 that's exploded, and now in 2016, I mean, you have Rhonda Rousey, who's on the Ellen show that we've talked about today, the Connor McGregor Dos Angeles fight, is probably, probably going to get close to 2 million pay -per -view eyes.

[2131] I mean, that's going to be fucking crazy.

[2132] You're dealing with this sport that's exploding, just exploding now.

[2133] So it's so strange that this combination of things.

[2134] The oldest sport is also the newest sport, and you, from the time you started competing, you caught it like right at the beginning of the wave.

[2135] Yeah, it's really cool.

[2136] It's an amazing feeling.

[2137] Many times fans ask, wouldn't you want to be born like 20 years later?

[2138] I say, no, I'm perfectly happy right now.

[2139] I mean, also the way I wrapped it up, I didn't lose in my last 22 fights, it's a great way to stop, you know, while I'm ahead.

[2140] Every guy, keep going, see if I can win one more, you lose.

[2141] You win one more, oh, you lose.

[2142] You know, that's not a great way to wrap up a career.

[2143] You know, of course, injuries with me played a factor.

[2144] You know, maybe I got the injuries because they said, hey, it's been going really well.

[2145] Maybe you've got to stop now, you know, because you're getting older.

[2146] And you don't want to admit that you get older.

[2147] Because you're still explosive and you still want to do it, and you're still train with guys.

[2148] When I came back, I trained with the guys in Vegas, and I go, dude, everybody looked at me. They said, then you have a second career.

[2149] This is the craziest thing.

[2150] I say, yeah, this is crazy, right?

[2151] I'm feeling so good.

[2152] You know, I couldn't do the warm -up.

[2153] I couldn't do 20 minutes warm -up when I started because I didn't train for three and a half years.

[2154] And six weeks later, I'm not taking breaks anymore.

[2155] I just go into the next opponents.

[2156] I was, even myself, I amazed.

[2157] I'm, man, this is great.

[2158] And then all the injuries started coming back.

[2159] you know and now i go okay now i got it my knees my tendonitis i tore a hamstring i go pull the rip put the rip out at the place at uh dan henderson's place you know they took me down in the mid air i reversed the takedown but with that i used so much upper body strength that i popped the rip out so now that was 12 days before the fight i couldn't punch anymore can't punch you back the only thing i did was the workout i have the audio workout in the air There's the only thing I could do.

[2160] Wow.

[2161] Yeah.

[2162] But you got out of the sport with your faculties 100 % intact.

[2163] That is the ultimate goal of any fighter to retire, and especially you, because you're now a commentator, you're also an analyst.

[2164] I mean, you do a fantastic job of breaking down fights.

[2165] I really enjoy you on Inside MMA because you have such a knowledgeable perspective, but also you're very honest.

[2166] You don't play politics.

[2167] You're very honest about how you feel about a fight coming up, about where a guy fucked up, or where a person's chances lie.

[2168] And I think it's amazing what you've done.

[2169] It really is amazing.

[2170] Thank you.

[2171] I mean, you're sharp as ever.

[2172] You know, I'm always trying not to get hit.

[2173] You know, it didn't really work in my title fight against Kevin because he beat the crap out of me for the first four minutes.

[2174] But, you know, but after that, it was okay.

[2175] For the rest, I don't think I ever got hit.

[2176] You know, I always try to, you know, slip and move.

[2177] Well, fighting intelligent is the most important aspect of fighting.

[2178] To use your mind, to use your mind and proper tactics and techniques.

[2179] That's why I love Mighty Mouse.

[2180] Yep.

[2181] Mighty Mouse is...

[2182] It's pound for pound the best guy.

[2183] I agree.

[2184] Yeah.

[2185] I mean, I don't think there's any competition.

[2186] I think John Jones is a phenomenal talent, and he's an amazing fighter.

[2187] But I think it's almost disrespectful to put him as pound for pound the best.

[2188] When you look at some of the wars that he's had with Gustafson, I mean, the war that he had with Daniel Cormean was a great...

[2189] I mean, Daniel, obviously, he's a great fighter.

[2190] is a really good fight and you know John won the fight of course clearly but you look at what Mighty Mouse is doing to the competition he doesn't even get hit Dodson is a fucking freak I mean Dodson's a freak and Dodson just couldn't touch him yeah Dodson I always said in the beginning it's like he's glued to the ground yeah like he moves back he never slips he never just gets great footwork but man DJ who Matt Jim did a really good job that's really that's a whole new level well he's got so much going on His mind, he's very smart, he's very dedicated, he's got a great control of his ego, he doesn't fight like a fool, he fights very, very technical, his footwork is fantastic, his choices that he makes in a fight, his unpredictable in his movements, he's just, I think he's the best ever, I really do.

[2191] He needs a guy to fight like a Conner McGregor, though, because he has a big payday one time, because Raphaeldo Zangers is going to make a lot of money this fight.

[2192] Oh, yeah.

[2193] You know, if a two million, if that's really going to hit it, yeah, and you watch, that will probably.

[2194] get up also if he if for some reason McGregor wins this it's going to be very hard fight for him because I think those are you yeah it's going to be very tough fight because we saw with mandez yeah well we all we all know the same thing you know if once it goes to the ground but she still don't know in in that fight he's so aware or where he is when he fought Mendez and I'm talking about McGregor he was just laying on the ground yeah you know he didn't even try to escape it was almost like he said oh he's going to run out of gas Mendez took that fight though on two weeks that's what I mean just different animal but if he could have done that But he knew that.

[2195] That's what I'm saying.

[2196] He knew, oh, I'm just going to carry it into the second round and I'm going to get him.

[2197] You know, it didn't even try.

[2198] Yeah.

[2199] So I think once against Rafael Dos Angeles, yeah, he's going to need this guy in the guard.

[2200] That's one thing for sure.

[2201] Well, it's a different animal.

[2202] He'll be there every minute of every round.

[2203] He'll be there for 25 minutes trying to kill you.

[2204] Yeah.

[2205] Dosangos is a fucking animal, man. He's an animal.

[2206] He's a different animal.

[2207] Totally different kind of a fight.

[2208] So I'm so curious how that's going to play out.

[2209] When you look at how obsessed Connor is with.

[2210] footwork and movement and being smooth and fast and laying, like one of the things that he said when I was interviewing him after the fight, he's like, no power.

[2211] They see that, no power, just precision, just precision.

[2212] Like all those coming out of him, he just drops that punch in.

[2213] I mean, he's not grunting, he's not, he just drops it in and boom, takes him out.

[2214] The thing is, I see him everywhere, so I hope he's not going to make the Rousie mistake because I said it two weeks before, I think what Rousey is doing is not good.

[2215] Every talk show, every magazine.

[2216] I go to the supermarket, three magazine covers.

[2217] I mean, it's insane.

[2218] Stop doing that, you know.

[2219] Fight first.

[2220] Fight first.

[2221] That makes you big.

[2222] You know, once you lose that, all the other stuff that you're doing right now is going to go as well.

[2223] Yes.

[2224] Because they want that champion.

[2225] Yes.

[2226] You know, so McGregor, I hope that he stays focused and only, you know, picks the ones that he needs to do contractually.

[2227] And that's it.

[2228] Yeah, I think he's going to be a lot smarter about it.

[2229] I think Rhonda just got overwhelmed with the.

[2230] the amount of superstardom that came her way.

[2231] Unprecedented him.

[2232] I mean, there had never been an athlete like that before, this female ass kicker who's on top of the world.

[2233] Yep.

[2234] I mean, she was a new thing, and because of that, there was so many temptations.

[2235] And that's why for her it also was also so hard when she lost.

[2236] She was such a high, you know, and then boom, there you have such a low.

[2237] Well, this is the other way.

[2238] This is how your opponents could have felt, you know.

[2239] And I think that kind of stuff, you know, on one side it's really good for her, because now she understands that.

[2240] now she's going to go oh okay now i tasted the other side you're going to make you a better person and you start reminiscing about all the things did i you know was i oh in that interview i wasn't really that wasn't really cool you know those things start backfiring once you start losing it's with mcgregor the same thing although with him there's always it's a funny thing yeah you know with ronda it's real like like real but mcgregor is it real he's the reason he's so unbelievably good is he in his mind he truly loses there's no way he can lose yes you know and a guy to beat a guy like that Mendez hit him hard I mean heart and he didn't even flinch there was no zero no movement crazy it was the craziest thing we see how Mendez took out Ricardo Lopez I mean Ricardo Lamas rather yeah yeah I mean with Mendez it's fucking hard yeah it's a hard area but Connor just eats it eats it on the tip of his jaw also it was not like just that no it's crazy his jaw is incredible his mind is incredible.

[2241] I'm so fascinated by that fight.

[2242] So fascinating.

[2243] And he says one of us goes to war, we all go to war.

[2244] All the way back when he said that, remember in Boston was I believe, right?

[2245] That was, that's where he got me. That's went right way.

[2246] I said, okay, this guy.

[2247] That's why we got on the inside of the way.

[2248] And then the next time he was on inside of MMA, he says, man, I got my monograms.

[2249] Look, in my suit.

[2250] How cool is that?

[2251] He was so happy.

[2252] He's got his name.

[2253] Did you ever see the video?

[2254] Oh, I did some homework on him because we were going to interview him.

[2255] And I saw this video that he's in a hotel in Dublin, I believe, and there's coconuts.

[2256] Did you see that part?

[2257] No. Okay, so he's talking into the camera.

[2258] They're shooting this, whatever, you know, they're following him around.

[2259] And suddenly hear his wife going, no way, right?

[2260] And he goes, he's talking to the camera, he looks at the side, he says, what?

[2261] He said, no way.

[2262] And he says, one second.

[2263] So he walks over and she comes with a coconut.

[2264] And there's a hole in there, and they put a little cork thing in there.

[2265] So he goes, no way.

[2266] You know, it's like they never saw a coconut.

[2267] So they pulled the thing and they put the straw and they go Oh no way You think they did this Because I have to fight a Brazilian guy And that's why they start Reminiscing And that is a knock on the door So he opens the door And he has the coconut And he has his trainer And the trainer sees the coat He does Huh And the trainer goes No way Everybody does the same It is so funny And then you see him at the attic He lives at the attic From his mom and dad With his wife on the attic and he's putting a suit on and he's trying to figure out that thing in the pocket and he goes I don't know how to do it but you know I think in a few years from now I will you know this becomes sick at nature and then you see him now how cool is that you see him really there and now all the way up there good guy well he's making so much money now it's unprecedented you know I was talking to Dana on the phone today and Dana was saying he's going to be the first guy to make a hundred million dollars Yeah I heard that Aldo made $5 million from that last fight.

[2268] Aldo did.

[2269] Five million.

[2270] And Aldo's going back to Brazil with that money, where it's worth probably like, who knows how much.

[2271] 50 and 20.

[2272] Yeah, probably something like that.

[2273] I mean, and for a guy like Aldo who loves Brazil and loves to be in Brazil, that money goes a long way in Brazil.

[2274] Yeah.

[2275] You know, and he can help a lot of people in Brazil with that money too.

[2276] Whereas, like, if you bring that money to America, I mean, $5 million in Los Angeles.

[2277] Yeah.

[2278] You know, you can get a decent house and then it's gone, you know.

[2279] But in Brazil, he can hold on to that money for a long time.

[2280] Yeah.

[2281] Well, who knows how much Conner's going to make in this Dostangos fight?

[2282] And even if he loses, he still defends his featherweight title.

[2283] Yeah.

[2284] Which is crazy.

[2285] Yeah.

[2286] What if he fucking wins?

[2287] If he fucking wins, then he goes up and fights Robbie Lawler at Welterweight, Jesus Christ.

[2288] Yeah, Wonderboy.

[2289] It's going to be insane.

[2290] Wonderboy has the same kind of timing that he has.

[2291] Wonderboy's different.

[2292] I always say, I always talk about distance.

[2293] Yesterday in my class, I said again, the most important thing in fighting is Keep your nose pointed to your opponent Because if you say eyes That they think look in the way This is eyes on your point It's not Keep your full vision And distance You know If you if you manage To stay just outside this reach And then you can counter It's gold And that's what you know Wonderboy did also talk to What Wonderboy has That no one has Is karate kicks Yeah He's got the front leg side kick to the body The front leg roundhouse Kick to the face When he was fucking Johnny Hendricks up with that He front leg side kicked him to the body And then front leg, Roundhouse kicked him in the face.

[2294] You can see Hendricks was like, whoa.

[2295] What is this?

[2296] Yeah, he kicks in a way that no one does.

[2297] Yep.

[2298] No one, like, when he wheel kicked Ellenberger, Ellenberger was saying before that fight, those kicks him a waste of time.

[2299] He's like, I think it's a waste of energy, all that spinning stuff.

[2300] Whack?

[2301] He'll real kicks him.

[2302] Twice.

[2303] Twice in the head.

[2304] Hope Solo is a big fan.

[2305] Did you read to see that?

[2306] No. Hope Solo made a video message for Wonderboy.

[2307] Loves him.

[2308] How cool is that?

[2309] He's amazing, man. His fight with Hendrix was his coming out moment, like where you really got to see.

[2310] him with all of his work that he's done with Weidman and his take down defense and his wrestling.

[2311] And you're seeing that kickboxing that we always knew he had with the 57 and 0 kickboxing record.

[2312] That's a crazy thing.

[2313] You're seeing it come together inside the octagon where all those other MMA skills have caught up with his kickboxing.

[2314] And fuck man, that guy's good.

[2315] Yeah, he's something.

[2316] I was so impressed with that fight with Hendricks.

[2317] I was so impressed.

[2318] When his father said it before, the father was talking about the distance.

[2319] You know, I go oh, well, let's see.

[2320] And then when I saw it, the footwork.

[2321] But he's like a snake.

[2322] He's like in and out and in and out.

[2323] Did he wrestle?

[2324] Did he has to be, right?

[2325] I mean, how does he stop those state dance?

[2326] Well, first of all, he's done a lot of work with Weidman.

[2327] Him and Weidman trained together a lot.

[2328] And also he's Carlos Machado's son -in -law.

[2329] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I read that.

[2330] So, I mean, he's learning jujitsu, I'm sure, from, I mean, I don't know what belt he has under that, but Jesus Christ, that's a high level.

[2331] That's a beautiful thing to be connected to that guy.

[2332] How, did I hear something that he was going to be like family of Whiteman?

[2333] No, no. So what was the connection there?

[2334] Is he going to live there now?

[2335] Well, he trains with him a lot.

[2336] Okay.

[2337] It's a big, like, Widman, of course, is an elite wrestler.

[2338] You know, NCAA, All -American, I mean, one of the best wrestlers right now in MMA.

[2339] So to have a guy like Wideman training, I knew they do a lot of training sessions at Hofstra.

[2340] They go down there and do a lot of work with a wrestling team.

[2341] But that's what he needed.

[2342] He needed to be able to confidently stay on his feet and not worry about executing the kicks because you see him earlier in his career, he just didn't, it wasn't, wasn't loose.

[2343] It wasn't loose the way he is in a kickboxing fight.

[2344] Did you ever see him in the World Combat League, Chuck Norris' organization?

[2345] Oh, my God.

[2346] You see him in pure kickboxing.

[2347] You see what a talent this kid is.

[2348] It's incredible.

[2349] I'm not going to watch it now.

[2350] But it's so unusual because it's hands down and loose and in and out like a snake.

[2351] Trying to find a guy who emulates those.

[2352] I mean, Leoto Machita is obviously got great karate skill.

[2353] But Wonder Boys on another level.

[2354] It's like several levels past that.

[2355] the combinations that guy throws.

[2356] Like when he hit Hendricks, he's tagging him, and then as he's sliding out, he roundhouse kicks him in the body.

[2357] And then he slides back in and hits him with another combination.

[2358] And then he slides out and slides back in again.

[2359] And Hendricks is just overwhelmed.

[2360] We never saw anybody do that to Hendricks.

[2361] Yeah, I think what's interesting to try with guys like that, I always said this with Michita also, and even with Connor McGregor and when he fought Aldo, and in this case now as well, because their stance is so karate -wide, right?

[2362] But it's a karate without low -kicks they're used to here in America.

[2363] So I said to my buddies, imagine that the camp from Aldo said four months ago, listen, you're going to face McGregor.

[2364] Eventually this is going to happen.

[2365] Let's switch you to South Pole so we can use your left low -kicks.

[2366] Because the way they stand, it's going to be very hard for them to get away from low -kicks on the outside.

[2367] Right, right.

[2368] Inside is easy because what McGregor does, he lowers himself and once his knee goes in the same line as his butt, so to say, you don't have any space to land that inside low kick.

[2369] It's really weird if you angle it up, the angle is gone.

[2370] But low kicks in that stand, the outside low kick.

[2371] Outside low kicks.

[2372] From the south paw stands.

[2373] From a south paw stance, powerful low kicks to that leg because if you stop the legs, you're going to stop everything.

[2374] Well, Nikki Holtz, in Raymond Daniels, because Raymond Daniels is a very similar style.

[2375] Daniels, of course, was a karate champion.

[2376] It has an unbelievable kicking talent.

[2377] But Nikki Holskin stays glued to him and throws leg kicks.

[2378] He just chops him down, chops him down, chops him down, chops him down, and then Raymond Daniels.

[2379] Chop him down with low kicks, chop him down with low kicks, and then he had kicked him and knocked him out.

[2380] Yeah, Votelini is also something, yeah?

[2381] Wow, yeah.

[2382] But he's another guy that he had to relinquish his title because of concussions.

[2383] And he's going to do the podcast soon We're talking about him coming on the podcast Because he wants to talk about You know Some of the situations he's gone through Dealing with Concussion Syndrome Wow Yeah And he's young Yeah Yeah Just hard training, hard fights Yeah The Nicki Holskin fight was hard You know He's had he sent some fucking wars You see in training we never Like I never get knocked out Thankfully But I get hit a few times But never You know Not every workout for sure Like once it for so many time, you know, because they have good sparring partners.

[2384] It always happens when you go somewhere and then one of these, the boxing club, and suddenly a boxer jumps up, hey, want to go a few rounds?

[2385] And then it goes harder, harder, harder, harder, and then you're in the fight.

[2386] Yeah.

[2387] Well, that's one of the smart things that Connor does.

[2388] Connor keeps all of his training partners very close.

[2389] You know, he's got all these, he's got Gunner Nelson, he's got a bunch of different guys that he trains with on a regular basis, and he keeps those guys very close to him, and everybody's got a common goal.

[2390] everybody's trying to help everybody else everybody's trying to get themselves healthy so that you know they're going to be stepping into that cage at 100 % that's it winning combination see he doesn't break it winning combination he takes everybody from Ireland but just come with me very smart very smart I got to get the fuck out of here boss rude all right you're the best I appreciate the fuck out of you you're awesome anytime you got an open invitation with Maro we're going to talk about some crazy some crazy pride stories people are going to like it just let him heal up or you You know, get over his illness, and we'll reschedule it soon.

[2391] I would love, love, love to do that.

[2392] And please check out Rootin and Renalo.

[2393] It's available on SoundCloud.

[2394] It's on iTunes as well.

[2395] It's on everything.

[2396] Yep.

[2397] And, of course, Inside MMA, it's on Access TV.

[2398] Boss Routen, El Guapo, the great one.

[2399] Got speed party on.

[2400] Thank you, sir.

[2401] Thank you.