#1353 - Rob Zombie

[0] Here we go.

[1] Rob Zambi, ladies and gentlemen.

[2] How are you, sir?

[3] Good, good.

[4] Thanks for being here, man. Appreciate it.

[5] Yeah, it's awesome.

[6] Three from hell comes out tonight.

[7] Yes, finally.

[8] It's such a crazy leap that you've made.

[9] I mean, people know you as much now for your films as they do for your music.

[10] Yeah, pretty much.

[11] Especially, I've really noticed that when I'd be like in an elevator.

[12] Like, the music fans, I can pretty much spot them.

[13] You know, but like when some guy comes up to me in elevator, it looks like he's a lawyer.

[14] or something which I have to get to grips without because I'm not you know I'm old every time a cop comes up and like what does this guy want I'm like oh he's like a fan because he's 30 years younger than me but like yeah when normal people like oh man I'm so into this or that because you know I figure like you know heavy metal music is very specific but everybody likes movies right so you can never spot the fans yeah yeah yeah that I can pretty much spot them what do you look for metal fan like what do you see it like what's coming your way Well, it's changed, but now it's always a guy with a shaved hit and a long goatee.

[15] That's very similar to anime fans.

[16] Nobody has hair anymore.

[17] It's like, I swear sometimes, I'm on stage the fans like, what's with the long hair?

[18] That's funny.

[19] Yeah, right?

[20] That was rock and roll.

[21] It was synonymous.

[22] Yeah, it's like not anymore.

[23] What made you make that leap in the horror films?

[24] Well, I always wanted to make movies.

[25] That was always my main goal in life.

[26] Really?

[27] Before music?

[28] Well, it was, well, let me back it up.

[29] I loved everything equally.

[30] But as a kid, it all seemed unattainable.

[31] So it was all a fantasy.

[32] Like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go to Hollywood and make movies.

[33] Oh, yeah, I'm going to have a band.

[34] Like, no, you're not.

[35] You're just living in some crap town.

[36] You're going to do nothing is what it felt like.

[37] You grew up in Haverill?

[38] Yeah.

[39] Yeah, I grew up in Newton.

[40] Newton number falls.

[41] Yeah, it's so funny.

[42] I think when I was a kid and played ice hockey, we would play against New England.

[43] I think we wrestled you guys.

[44] Yeah.

[45] Oh, God, wrestling, man. I hated having to wrestle.

[46] It's fucking horrible.

[47] It's so exhausting.

[48] It's the most exhausting.

[49] It's the most exhausting.

[50] It was like 30 seconds.

[51] I'm like, that was the worst 30 seconds in my life.

[52] What was I saying?

[53] Oh, yeah, no, I mean, growing up, I mean, it's like you can have a crappy band in the garage with your friends, but it's not going to do a thing.

[54] And then we had a Super 8 camera, so we'd make crappy Super 8 movies.

[55] But none of it seemed realistic.

[56] I thought my life was going to be, you know, world's worst bike messenger in New York City.

[57] That seemed to be what I was destined for.

[58] But then as the band started taking off, which seemed odd on its own, and there was a chance to make music videos.

[59] Like, fuck it.

[60] I'm directing these music videos.

[61] because this will be film school for me, and that's what it sort of became.

[62] Did you have this thing that a lot of people have, when things start going well for them, you have sort of like imposter syndrome, like you're like, is this, what the fuck?

[63] Are they going to find out?

[64] Oh, yeah, my whole life is like, ah, fooled them again.

[65] I think everybody feels like that.

[66] I think so, too.

[67] I mean, because I was always so, I was so shy.

[68] I wouldn't even, like, want to talk to people on the phone when I was a kid because that was too much.

[69] that one day I realized I just this is how I realized it one day like in high school I didn't associate with anyone like no one remembers me because I was just invisible but me and my friends were sort of like into punk rock like in a place where like no one knew what that was that was just like and then the day we graduated we were at like hanging out around McDonald's and the main asshole jock kid came up who would be the worst your worst enemy and you suddenly like hey man I'm going to college where do you guys get like your cool clothes and stuff.

[70] Like, wait a minute.

[71] It was four years of torture from you and your douchebag friends and now the day we graduate like, hey, you guys were...

[72] So that's what I knew.

[73] Everyone's so fucking insecure.

[74] It doesn't matter.

[75] And then next day I was like, I don't care anymore.

[76] Oh, that's crazy.

[77] I'm a different person.

[78] Yeah, it's hard to forgive those people.

[79] You know, the people that fucked with you in high school, it's hard to let that go and realize they just were probably tortured at home.

[80] Well, you can't let it go because that's your motivation.

[81] I'm always motivated by probably by anger and revenge and things of that nature.

[82] That's why when people want anti -bullying, I go, well, might be anti -success later on in a life.

[83] Because, you know, people to get fucked with tend to make it.

[84] Yeah, Chris Rock has a bit about that.

[85] Yeah, it's true.

[86] It's certainly true for fighters.

[87] Almost all the best fighters in the UFC have some story where someone was fucking with them when they're young and they had to figure out how to fight.

[88] Yep.

[89] What's the first thing we all do?

[90] Take karate lessons.

[91] Yeah.

[92] Well, even Chris Rock's bit involves Steve Jobs and a lot of other people.

[93] Like, do you not want Microsoft?

[94] Yeah, no, it's super true.

[95] It is super true.

[96] And it's also, it's interesting that you said that you had social anxiety.

[97] So many people that become entertainers also had some form of social anxiety when they're young.

[98] Yeah, I had to do this thing last, no, the night before last, I was presenting this award to somebody at this event.

[99] And, you know, I'm picturing, oh, the stage will be really big and high.

[100] get up there.

[101] It's super impersonal.

[102] It doesn't matter.

[103] And I get there, the stage is, like, lower than this desk.

[104] And it's like, all the tables with people eating dinner right there.

[105] I'm like, oh, man, this is a nightmare.

[106] I can't do this.

[107] Yeah.

[108] You know, because you have to sort of be normal.

[109] I used to freak out when I had to talk to bank tellers.

[110] I used to like, you know, you're in the line.

[111] It doesn't make any sense, right?

[112] But the line of, like, I'd have to deposit my check.

[113] And I'd be in the line.

[114] I'm like, four more people and I got to talk.

[115] I totally know that feeling.

[116] Fuck, it's so crazy.

[117] I was like that about every I was like that with my own not my family that lived in the house but like an uncle came over like I can't deal with Dylan so I got Uncle Bill I'll be upstairs call me when he leaves yeah and then it's crazy that a guy like you winds up singing in front of fucking thousands of people playing guitar in front of thousands of people I wish I could play guitar but I will sing in front of the people um it doesn't bother me it doesn't matter like oh it's a festival it's a hundred thousand people I'm like who gives it crap it's crazy so there's Two people out the other one that's say hi.

[118] I'm like, oh, that's weird.

[119] Yeah, especially if they're right in front of you.

[120] Like, one of the weirdest shows that any comic ever has to do is shows where there's a really tiny audience.

[121] Like at the comedy store at 1 o 'clock in the morning.

[122] And there's like five people.

[123] That's brutal.

[124] It's just so weird.

[125] It's like 500 people, no problem.

[126] Yeah.

[127] Five people.

[128] That's why starting, like, when people like, oh, do you ever want to go back and play clubs and more intimate saying?

[129] I'm like, no, no. I want the shows to be bigger as impersonal as humanly possible because I hated playing clubs and the people like right in front of you like doing that and I'm like I know we do kind of suck but can't you just go with it?

[130] I'll give you a break man you know let us get our feet I don't know what kind of music did you guys play in the very beginning well when I started I was living in New York City, and when my first band, White Zombies started, I was working at Peewee's Playhouse, actually.

[131] I was a production assistant for Peewe's Playhouse for the first season.

[132] Did you know Phil Hartman?

[133] No, I was a production assistant.

[134] I knew.

[135] But did you see him?

[136] I saw people around because it was Phil Hartman, and it was Paul Rubens, obviously, and it was William Marshall who played Black Gila.

[137] He was the cartoon king at that point.

[138] And it was all these great people.

[139] Larry Fishburn, was Cowboy Curtis.

[140] That's right.

[141] I'm trying to think who else was there.

[142] Wow.

[143] I forgot he was on it.

[144] The only interaction I ever had with anybody was Paul Rubin's, and I was standing there, and he walked by, and he goes, where's the bathroom?

[145] I was like, it's right there.

[146] That's it?

[147] That was it.

[148] So, I forgot it was.

[149] Oh, but anyway, yeah.

[150] I was hit sidetracked.

[151] It's crazy that white zombie was your first band, too.

[152] Yeah.

[153] And one of the odds.

[154] It was weird because we didn't play any covers, and we sort of, nobody really knew how to play when we started, and we sort of invented sound based upon completely not knowing what you're doing.

[155] Really?

[156] Yeah.

[157] Because that's like any band, like the Ramones.

[158] It's like, well, we know these three chords, but we understand, they instinctively understand catchy pop songs, even though it doesn't make sense.

[159] Because when you try to learn a Ramon song, it doesn't make sense.

[160] Even though it seems like, oh, these are really simple songs.

[161] Because I've played them before because I've done this Ramones tribute thing.

[162] Like, oh, verse, chorus.

[163] Wait, verse again, two choruses, then another.

[164] Like, they're so catchy, but the structure is so odd because you could tell they were just sort of inventing this thing they were doing.

[165] And that's how I felt with us.

[166] Because I had this weird idea like, let's never play conventional drum beats, which is like saying, let's never make the song fun for anyone to listen to.

[167] Like I was, you know, I got over that, but it just, yeah, you just, I don't know what I'm talking about.

[168] Did you take any classes in the early days?

[169] Or did you just?

[170] Well, I went to New York originally to go to Parsons School Design for fine arts.

[171] But I got kicked out because my grades dropped too low because I went from Haveral to New York.

[172] So I was like, I'm just hanging out.

[173] I'm not dance at Terry all night.

[174] I'm not going to school because dance at terror was amazing because one night it would be, you know, run DMC, like before anyone knew who they were.

[175] And then it would be like Nick Cave, then it would be this.

[176] It was like I stayed there every night till 4 a .m. And then we'd go to school and just, you know, fall asleep or fall asleep on the train ride home to New Jersey, then try to get back.

[177] So you never went to school like for classical musical instruments or anything?

[178] No, I never went.

[179] I can't learn anything.

[180] I think I'm incapable.

[181] I just have to do it and figure it out and do it wrong a thousand times.

[182] I can't.

[183] I just incapable.

[184] Even as a little kid, if we got a game, I was incapable of reading the directions.

[185] We were just, let's just make up our own rules.

[186] We got a spinner and these little guys.

[187] Let's just, you know, it's like three lines of directions to learn how to play the happy days game.

[188] We wouldn't bother.

[189] You're giving so many kids out there hope right now listening to this.

[190] They're like, that's me. I mean if you can make it you can be you can be Rob Zoppy you can be an idiot and make it I mean I remember when I got kicked out of school I was sitting in New Jersey I was probably 19 maybe 20 and I was just sitting there thinking well I did it I'm a fucking loser because I had you know I was making like a hundred bucks a week I got kicked out of school and I was sitting there this crappy ghetto neighborhood in Jersey City and you're just like what did I do to my life it worked out yeah it worked out yeah it worked worked out somehow.

[191] Isn't that crazy?

[192] Things just eventually get better.

[193] You keep going.

[194] I don't know how.

[195] I guess I don't know how because it never, they would never seem like it was going to.

[196] Like, White Zombie was a band.

[197] It seemed like everyone hated and no matter what, we had to be literally the last band in New York City to get a record deal.

[198] Maybe that's why we got it.

[199] They're like, we're literally out of bands.

[200] We have to sign them.

[201] But even when that happened, there was always this weird thing and maybe you could really, we got to offer to a record deal with RCA records.

[202] Now, we're a band that hasn't got anything.

[203] And I was like, nah, it doesn't seem right.

[204] I turned it down.

[205] And then we got MCA and I turned it down.

[206] I was like, I think we should hold out for Geffen Records.

[207] Now, we have nothing.

[208] There's people holding out for Geffen records because they were the biggest at the time with no reason to be holding out.

[209] But we got signed a Geffen eventually.

[210] How did you have those kind of balls?

[211] Because that seems like you would...

[212] Well, I think it's balls mixed with stupidity at the same time.

[213] Because I know I can be my own worst enemy because even when I signed to Geffen, you know, I come up with an album title.

[214] They're like, really?

[215] You're going to call it Les Exorcisto, Devil Music, Volume 1?

[216] Is this just a guarantee we don't get any good placement on the album in stores?

[217] I was like, I guess.

[218] And then they're like, well, we're going to hire so -and -so to direct a video.

[219] Like naming, you know, he just did the naming some big, the White Snake video.

[220] I'm like, no, I'm going to do it.

[221] And they're like, oh, God.

[222] It's an idiot.

[223] But it all worked.

[224] it's crazy though that you passed on two legitimate record companies i wouldn't mean most kids when they're starting out are so you know you're like holy shit this is our chance i didn't think they were good enough wow even though we weren't good enough for anything either i don't know what that thought was well maybe you just i don't mean i'm not a believer in fate but if it kind of seems to fall into place for you it yeah i don't know it's like i feel like my whole life is just like i could have gotten hit by that car i just didn't you know because i just stopped one second short from actually stepping in front of the speeding car and made it so you always wanted to make movies though that was always something that was always the thing i wanted to do for sure but that seemed completely undoable because it was just like hollywood and movies i mean it just it feels so far far removed i mean living on the lower east side playing CBGBs like and being broke that seems doable like right you know and that actually would inspire me there as i would see so many bands like oh well they suck i mean we at least better than they are you know that was like i guess the motivation i had but like movies just seem like no way that works for comics too that's one of the best thing richard jenny once said that about open mic nights that really bad comedians are great because they inspire people to try it yeah yeah yeah i get it i mean because there's such a record i think i have i have so many friends that are comics that i've always um become good friends with over the years and I think it's so similar I can't imagine staying there trying to tell jokes that people are laughing but I also can't imagine staying there playing songs that nobody wants to hear and they're just looking at you like yeah you know yeah kind of similar well the thing is I think it's probably even harder maybe with songs that nobody knows because people will listen to jokes because they make them laugh but songs that that's true knows and a band that no one knows It was like, man, you got to figure out a way to rope these people in.

[225] Yeah, that's why I always figured like, I was always visually oriented.

[226] So I always would make sure the band had to look a certain way and act a certain way the way I wanted them to be.

[227] You know, so I thought at least there's that.

[228] At least you can go, this is awful.

[229] But look at these maniacs where, you know, everybody's hair is down to here and they're going crazy and no one else is going crazy in the club.

[230] but they are, at least it's, you know, an entertaining train wreck to watch, at least, you know.

[231] What kind of films did you like when you're growing up?

[232] I mean, when I was a kid, I would literally just get the TV guide because we're talking like, you know, the early 70s.

[233] And I would circle everything that I was going to watch for the week.

[234] Like I would plan it out.

[235] It wasn't random.

[236] It was like, okay, one o 'clock white heats on.

[237] I'm going to watch that.

[238] Beneath the Planet of the Apes comes on at 4.

[239] We're going to jump to that.

[240] Then, you know, we're going to take a break to watch Gilligan's Island.

[241] then I want to come back because good and the bad and the ugly he's on tonight because it's Clint Eastwood week and I would just plan it out the whole week and that's I would just watch everything kids today will never understand TV guides never understand and the ones that would come with the Sunday paper you'd get the guide with the paper and you'd figure out what's going to be on you look forward to stuff we would look forward to what was going to be on TV remember as a kid like you knew Planet of the Apes was going to be on like the whole neighborhood was on fire because Planet of the Apes was going to be on now it's like whatever it's on my phone right now it's always But I think there's something Don't you think And I don't know how this figures into comedy But I'm sure it does There was something about Having to be exposed to everything Because there was nothing else That I know as much about John Wayne movies As I do about horror movies Right, you didn't get to choose Whereas now everything's so compartmentalized That people just like If you hear a band you go Let me guess what your favorite band is The band you sound exactly like Because you have no other influences As opposed to a lot of metal bands I know that are huge they go, well, my favorite band was actually ZZ Top.

[242] So we just decided to play ZZ Top Riffs really fast.

[243] And that's how we created this.

[244] But now everybody's just so like, I only like this.

[245] Yeah, that you get in those confirmation bubbles where everybody else likes what you like and you just operate in the same circles.

[246] And yeah, you can get real weird that way.

[247] Where it's weird, like you just, but if you're taking influences from stealing things from everywhere, you can put them together a new way, but if you feel like, I only like metal.

[248] I only like, yes, you sound like metal.

[249] Well, that's a cool thing about the radio, right?

[250] That, I mean, I've been recently listening to Spotify, which I never listened before, but listen to streaming services.

[251] I get exposed to, you know, there's like a channel.

[252] Like, there'll be a Rob Zami channel, and there'll be a bunch of other shit on it as well.

[253] Like, you know, like, there's a Laude Zeppelin channel, and you'll hear some weird music that you didn't expect from some bands you didn't even know of, and I missed that from radio.

[254] Yeah, I mean, I just want to, because you want that moment of like, oh, whoa, what's this?

[255] Yeah.

[256] Wow, that's fucking cool.

[257] I'm going to listen to that.

[258] I didn't know what it was five minutes ago.

[259] Yeah.

[260] You know, because even as a kid, I mean, I hate talking like this, but I can't help it.

[261] It's like, you know, like just FM radio's like, okay, the Allman Brothers, then Diana Ross, then Kiss, then Abba.

[262] I'll just listen to all of it because it's on the radio.

[263] Right, right.

[264] You know.

[265] Yeah, I remember growing up in Boston, remember WBCN.

[266] Oh, yeah.

[267] Yeah.

[268] They played one time, I forget who it was.

[269] It might have been Mark Parento.

[270] I forget who it was.

[271] who was the DJ was saying Yeah, right?

[272] He was saying that this, look, this is not might have made actually, it might have been COZ, it might not have been BCN.

[273] Anyway, whoever the DJ was, it was a rock station.

[274] And they were like, look, this isn't rock, but it's fucking good.

[275] They didn't say fucking good.

[276] It's really good.

[277] And that's what we're playing.

[278] And they played Michael Jackson.

[279] And I remember thinking, wow, this is so crazy they're going to play a Michael Jackson song, but it was really good.

[280] Yeah.

[281] And so you're like, okay, I'll take it, you know?

[282] Yeah, still, it's funny I remember that because I still remember the one morning brushing my teeth and they're like, oh, we're playing this new band The Police, his song Roxanne.

[283] I thought it was like this, you know, black reggae band until I saw a picture of him.

[284] Rest in peace, Rick O 'Casek.

[285] I know, right?

[286] I lost him today.

[287] Rick O 'Casick from the cars.

[288] That's a bummer.

[289] That was a bummer.

[290] Those guys are so, the cars is one of those bands where whenever you don't know what to listen to, you can always listen to the cars because of so many good songs and it's so good.

[291] Yeah, he was such an interesting.

[292] seen guy too such a an oddity yeah tall and lanky with the sunglasses and the supermodel and every song's awesome yeah they were weird yeah man he was he was brilliant that's a bummer man that's a bummer and he was cool too because i remember when he um produced the bad brains record rock for light and i was like rick oh kasek he's hipper than i thought it's cool yeah um so like movies wise movie wise like when you were a kid do you in hard films back then?

[293] I was into everything, but I love that for sure, but I, like, I don't even know if we, we definitely didn't call them horror movies.

[294] We thought everything, everything was a monster movie.

[295] Like, oh, man, check this monster movie.

[296] Like, that's just what we'd call it.

[297] Because it was always like, you know, we had creature double feature on Channel 56.

[298] Do you remember that?

[299] Sure.

[300] Yeah, well, that was like the, every weekend's like, oh, fuck, it's destroy all monsters and, you know, whatever, son of...

[301] Creature Double Features.

[302] Yeah.

[303] On Channel 56.

[304] Yeah.

[305] So that That was, yeah, so big time.

[306] That ruled our world.

[307] So watching them back then, that's when you got the idea?

[308] Well, it got the idea that I loved it and I wanted to do it, but it was always, it was the idea like, yeah, I want to be an astronaut too.

[309] Like, it didn't seem like an idea that was ever going to happen.

[310] Right, it was just something that you were really into.

[311] Yeah, and it's really funny, too, this funny weird things, because at one time in high school, me and my friends filmed a sequel to escape from New York, the John Carpenter film.

[312] I don't know.

[313] I don't know.

[314] I don't know better to do.

[315] And then to be like, you know, however I meant 20 years later that I remade a John Carpenter film, Halloween, was just so bizarre.

[316] I guess I'd been thinking about it for a long time.

[317] But, you know.

[318] That is kind of crazy.

[319] It's weird, yeah.

[320] It's weird shit like that.

[321] When your first actual film film was what, like 2004?

[322] 2000.

[323] 2000?

[324] Yeah, because the way it went down was, this is a funny story, too.

[325] I made my first movie house of 1 ,000 corpses at Universal Studios.

[326] and it was 2000.

[327] It could have been even the tail end in 1999, I'm not sure.

[328] The only reason I know it was 2000, I had a rap gift somebody gave me and they put a date in.

[329] I was like, oh, shit, it was 2000.

[330] So I made the movie with Universal Studios.

[331] And once they screened it, we had our test screening, which I thought went, I thought went great.

[332] What do I know?

[333] The head of Universal at the time came up and was like, we have to talk tomorrow.

[334] I was like, oh, man, that was not a good tone.

[335] That wasn't a, you're so great.

[336] We want to give you a five -picture deal.

[337] voice so the next day they dumped the movie and you know just basically booted us out and then what was the conversation they were like we basically this is unreleasable i don't remember word for word but that was the conversation in a nutshell but at the time too you figure there was no horror coming out of universal they were making like the flintstones movie and that was not the image they wanted this really vile sort of backwoods hillbilly murder fest where the bad people win essentially I mean horror films were sort of like not even a commercial thing at that point in a way so then um which is funny now if you go to universal studios Hollywood or Orlando there's a huge house of a thousand corpses thing event going on in both theme parks that's hilarious I was there for the grand opening like that's funny again like it's like a train it's like I get fired from here and now you know 20 years later it's a theme park attraction in the exact place I got fired from wow which is so weird what was the conversation like before you decided to do that film I mean how did how did they let you do it I don't you know I again I think getting to make a movie for Universal Studios was such an amazing experience but I think I was too naive to understand what was happening it'd be like you did one set of comments I was like hey we're going to put you on tour George Carr and you're like cool I guess this is the way it has happens man you know and then it's after like wow well i didn't really appreciate just went down did i not that i was took it for granted but i had i had met with someone at the theme park about doing a haunted maze during their horror Halloween horror nights based on my album and then sort of by being in the offices was meeting meeting people and having just meetings about stuff or i just didn't want to leave once i got in the studio i just love being there even and I had no business being there.

[338] And somehow, I remember being in the guy at times, his name was Kevin Misher, his office, pitching him a movie I didn't have a pitch for.

[339] I had a title, but nothing else.

[340] And somehow it progressed from there.

[341] I was like, really?

[342] I told them kind of a cool title with a completely half -ass idea that I was making up as I was talking to him.

[343] What did you say?

[344] What was the conversation?

[345] I don't even remember.

[346] It was weird.

[347] I don't even, I can't, I wish I could remember it well because it, after the, the fact.

[348] I'm like, how did this happen?

[349] I don't remember.

[350] This is like, your story is like the anti -ambition story.

[351] It's like the anti -preparation story, but super successful nonetheless.

[352] Yeah, I guess the goal is just be vague with people.

[353] Be vague and look cool.

[354] And act like you don't care.

[355] And I had that attitude too.

[356] I remember once the movie was rolling, I was like, this is who I want to cast and this is exactly what I want to do.

[357] And if you guys don't want to do it, that's cool let's just not work together and they did it wow like that's great pitch on my part right and i we shot it on the universal backlot we're like right there like doing the whole thing and big production and it was weird wow when when it wrapped like final day final scene and that's a wrap where you're like what the fuck just happened well the funny thing is like after we wrapped the first time we had a little test screening within the studio like friends and like oh we could we should probably punch up the ending so they gave me like they gave me more money to reshoot the ending than I actually made my newest movie with it was like money was nothing like you know there's throwing money around like it's like nothing I was like oh my god this is insane we were building these giant sets doing those crazy stuff it was after that that you know the problem started but um I don't I wish I can remember these things better it's weird that I don't But what attracted you to this ultra -violent psychopath, like outcast, murderous style of movie that you do?

[358] Because you have like these almost like mutant society, psycho -murder people that people, but people fucking love it, man. I've always dug like outsider mentality.

[359] Like anything that involved like out, I think it started as a kid as a kid because like a lot of people can relate.

[360] this.

[361] I didn't feel like I fit in.

[362] Like I was like weird.

[363] I didn't fit in.

[364] I didn't get like what were the cool shoes to wear or the right freaking eyes odd shirt.

[365] I didn't understand.

[366] I wasn't trying to be, you know, no one's trying to be weird and like, oh yeah, I want to be weird and hide away because I'm weird.

[367] No, it's like, I don't understand.

[368] And I think when I would watch the monster movies, the monster was always that mentality.

[369] Like King Kong's like, hey, man, I'm just trying to get along.

[370] Why is everyone shooting at me?

[371] And Frankenstein's like, hey, I was just born yesterday.

[372] Why are you trying to kill me like and i think as a weird kid you relate to the monster so as life went on and you know the i would always relate to the outsider then i would always relate to movies like taxi driver bonnie and clyde and be like yeah Travis bickle you know he's he's the fucking man you know and i would always be like anything anti society and the fuck you fuck everything that's normal right like revenge yeah i was just into it and i felt real similar when i was a kid i was always into monster movies i was always into something that to just tore all the normal people apart and just ripped apart all the preconceived notions of what everybody thought was going to happen.

[373] And then around, towards the end of high school, when I discovered punk rock and you figure out there's an entire form of music where they're just like, go fuck yourself.

[374] Yeah.

[375] That's what we're here.

[376] I was like, I'm in.

[377] And so many other people as well.

[378] Yeah.

[379] And it's just like, it just flips your whole idea of what life is.

[380] And then when I moved to New York, I was like, wow, this is an entire city of people who don't give a fuck.

[381] Yeah, that's where they come.

[382] Yeah.

[383] Nobody gives this shit about anything here.

[384] It's amazing how your movies resonate with people, like to, like, in a fanatical way.

[385] Like, you read the comments on just a trailer for three from hell.

[386] You know, just people are so fucking pumped.

[387] Yeah, it's great.

[388] And, I mean, it's been a long journey because, like, when my.

[389] first movie came out I think every review basically said something along lines of worst movie ever made I hate this movie and now people do look that's your best movie you know like you've been chasing it ever since so it's just weird how same with white zombie when our first geff I still remember this our first Geffen record came out I saw the first review it was this magazine alternative press who two years ago gave me this lifetime achievement award and I had to read the review while except the word the review said this is the worst band ever I was like ever come on and it said this is the worst band ever ignore this band so there was something you know there must have been something did you ever contact the person who wrote that no I didn't I back then I was just like I mean like I felt like maybe a few years later once you were really successful I can't remember who was I used to be upset by reviews until I saw who wrote them Yeah You know Yeah That's a problem That guy A lot of critics Or critics or critics Because they really wanted to be writers They just don't have a lot to contribute And so they just shit on things And it's just like When you're young And you're new and you're reading it You think that the guy is writing it Writing all badass You'll think Oh this dude must look like Lemmy He must be this hard ass guy And then you see a guy Like that guy wrote it Oh fuck him And fuck everyone else Who ever writes anything again I don't give a shit But the thing is about music is it's so subjective and you know someone who grew up wearing the right eyes odd shirts hanging with the cool crowd they're not going to it's your music's not going to resonate with them the same way it's going to be with other people that felt like they were outsiders i mean i can only do what i do and i don't know what would be popular i don't understand popular culture in a way because when people are like gushing over something a movie or something i say i go i hated that movie i know it made 500 million dollars and it's everyone's favorite movie i go i could barely sit through it yeah there's a lot of those being made same with music like i'd be like oh i love the velvet underground everyone's like but what about and they'll name something like you know i don't want to bash anybody but something so popular like that makes me want to kill myself when i hear that literally it's sickening do you like like do you like any films today is there anything that oh yeah i'll see stuff all the time and i you know i mean what kind of shit do you enjoy i'll watch every everything i mean whenever there's something that's more like um smaller movies i really like like i was thinking about the other day about this time in the 90s where like you got movies like napoleon dynamite and american splendor which i thought you ever see that with yes i thought paul giamadi is heavy pcar this is like the greatest movie ever made it's a great world those early terry swigoff films was like that's where i kind of my head was at just weird movies like that yeah it's um look depoleon dynamite to this day is one of the comedies of all time.

[390] As soon as that movie started and the credits were food, I was like, this is like the greatest thing I've seen in a theater in like 20 years.

[391] What is going on here?

[392] Well, I just don't understand why they never made a second one.

[393] I don't know.

[394] That didn't make any sense to me. I'm like, this is a fucking franchise waiting to happen.

[395] Like him and the other dude, the who was the guy who played his, was his uncle?

[396] Uncle Rico.

[397] Yeah.

[398] I mean, the fucking guy was amazing.

[399] I know.

[400] They were so like over the top, but believable.

[401] like everything about it When he's feeding Tina Come on Tina It just doesn't seem I just It doesn't seem like it could miss I love that movie Yeah well I can see them doing it now Yeah 50 years later They try to do that with dumb and dumber Remember they did it way way Way too late And Jim Carrey's like 50 And everybody's like This is just weird You're not young anymore You can't be a buffoon That's hard lightning in a bottle To recreate Dumb and Dumber Yeah, right, right, right.

[402] It's like stepbrothers.

[403] There's certain movies that just...

[404] Right, you've got to kind of leave them alone.

[405] I remember seeing stepbrothers and I was like, is it my imagination?

[406] It was every single fucking thing in this movie, hilarious.

[407] Well, those two guys together seem like they can't miss. You know, in Talladega Nights, they were fucking amazing in Talladega Nights.

[408] I love when a comedy's made well.

[409] Yeah.

[410] Because so often they're not.

[411] Yeah.

[412] You know, that's why I liked about the hangover.

[413] If you turn the sound off and you just looked at it, it's a really good -looking, well -made film.

[414] And then you turn on it.

[415] the sound you realize it's hilarious but so many comedies are just so shitty what's that new set rogan produced film with kids the good boys yeah yeah i didn't see that yeah my fucking wife said it was amazing she said it was like like piss your pants laugh oh really yeah oh that's i got i need to go see it you never you didn't see it i like it was like a live action like south park that's a good way to describe did you see it yeah yeah i watched it you like it yeah because it's r rated yeah set rogan can't miss he's hilarious now when you were at kid like you liked all kinds of stuff but did you think if you wanted to make films that you would be making the kind of films that you're making now these like butchers well i guess since the first thing i made was that and i was into it i mean i liked because what happened too was when i moved to manhattan in like 1982 or something i discovered when when new york city was all second run theaters and double features so i could finally see the long list of films I'd never been able to see.

[416] I remember the first time I, like, Eighth Street Playhouse was a good example where the first time I saw Texas Chainsaw Masker was on a double bill with Jimmy plays Berkeley, the Jimmy Hendricks movie.

[417] I don't know why that was the double bill, but...

[418] I forgot about double bills.

[419] Yeah, and I would go see like, oh my God, Ilsa She Wolfs over the SS is playing with Faster Pusigat.

[420] Oh my God, and I could, because I could never see them because there was no VHS yet, or was so new that those movies weren't around, that I just had books.

[421] and I was just staring at books because back in the day you know it's kind of because with the this new movie 3 from hell you know it's playing on about a thousand screens so it's not like everywhere like you can't walk two feet and it's on five screens and people like fuck man it's like 15 minute drive from my house I was like I would literally drive for five hours as a kid if there was a movie I wanted to see it didn't matter I'd ride my one time I rode before I could drive I rode my bike for like three hours to see Night of Living Dead at a midnight screening because I'm like I'm going to see no matter what.

[422] Because if you didn't see it, it was just going to evaporate.

[423] That's one of the things I love about people from Canada.

[424] Canada, they drive everywhere.

[425] Like, I have friends in Alberta.

[426] They'll drive seven hours to go see something.

[427] Yeah.

[428] Because that's what you have to do.

[429] You get up in the morning and that's your day.

[430] You're driving somewhere.

[431] And when I was younger, that was like part of the fun.

[432] I didn't care.

[433] Yeah, it's an adventure.

[434] So the concert's 30 hours away, so.

[435] Yeah.

[436] Did you study or have you watched a lot of like really old horror?

[437] Yeah, I mean, I watch, sometimes I feel like I'm searching for things to watch because I try to watch literally everything and I want to own everything.

[438] So I have like a vault at home that has, you know, 20 ,000 movies in it because I never, if somebody mentioned something and I don't know what it is, I'm like, fuck.

[439] And I like write it down and I immediately have to go like investigate it.

[440] So you say a vault, like an actual vault, like a bank vault?

[441] No, no, I just, I call it a vault.

[442] It's just a room that I built that just is nothing but like a movie library because I want to own everything.

[443] So you have a physical copy of all these?

[444] Yeah.

[445] What format do you put them in?

[446] Well, now they're DVD.

[447] I mean, they were Laserdisc and VHS and then I started trading them out because what happens now, it's great that everything's digital.

[448] But if you go to iTunes, 99 % of the things I want to see aren't there because they're not, you know, so you can do that thing now that was nice on Amazon where you can, they will burn the movie on CD to own.

[449] Because it would be like weird movies Like I was spent forever trying to find I mean I got it many years ago But like there was this movie called Dirty Little Billy With Michael J. Paul at his Billy the Kid And I was like Where do I see this?

[450] Dirty Little Billy Yeah it's this amazing movie From the 70s And finally you can get it Like they'll You know It's made to order CDs I mean DVDs on Amazon and stuff So When I was a kid I was gigantically in the horror films And I used to read Fangore all the time.

[451] And I remember they were getting into these, there were slasher movies from like, I guess like the 60s that I'd never heard of that were like ultra gore fest movies.

[452] God, I'm trying to remember who was the director, but there was a guy who was famous.

[453] Probably Herschel Gordon Lewis.

[454] Is that what you're thinking?

[455] I think that is.

[456] Like 2 ,000 Maniacs and Blood Feast and stuff like that, yeah.

[457] Like that stuff, I never was exposed to that.

[458] I've still to this day, I've never seen one of those films, but the magazines were covered.

[459] with like people with axes and yeah i mean because things would play it at the drive in and then go away yeah you know that was like that's how i felt when the first time um when i loved when 40 second street new york was the real 40 second street right and i remember it's so funny me my friend my roommate back then we'd always go to 40 second street to see movies could be like cannibal holocaust i would just see the post what the fuck is cannibal holocaust and you go see this Italian cannibal movie this is literally the most I cannot believe another human made this movie and it blows your mind but I remember every time I went to 42nd Street I saw a really bad incident happen like you could not go there like we'd be like wait in a line and like oh let's go get some French fries before the movie two guys would start fighting at McDonald's one guy would just pummel the other guy it'd be blood everywhere go it happened next time we'd go we'd see a guy stab another guy in the theater while watching there it is like literally i never went there once and even right till i was recording my album before i moved i remember walking to the studio which was like maybe 43rd and there was a dead body lying there and they had just found him and they were just starting to put the sheet so i actually didn't see the violent act but i saw the dead body but you didn't care like new york it was like new york when i moved to new york and 82 still seemed like you know taxi driver new york yeah well that was when it was.

[460] It was coming from Haverill Wild fucking West.

[461] So exciting because Haverill was so boring in comparison.

[462] Yeah, it couldn't be more boring.

[463] If its goal was to be boring, it was gold medal.

[464] Yeah, it succeeded.

[465] I remember, Haverill was so bad that when we were kids, I remember, I don't forget, maybe this was maybe the Bisonan, around the bicentennial.

[466] I think they were trying to drive business because Main Street and they can't even blame Walmart back then.

[467] It was dead.

[468] There was nothing there.

[469] It was just a ghost town.

[470] And they're like, they just put all these banners up.

[471] behavioral the all -American city but it was like the catchphrase is going to matter that's going to make people open businesses oh i didn't know this is so bad time to sell flags yeah exactly yeah i i went to new york city for the first time in the 80s as well i'm trying to remember what year it was it was like somewhere probably around 82 or 83 and uh when we were in in the city driving around i remember thinking like this is the craziest fucking place i've ever been in my life.

[472] The buildings were so big, it didn't make sense.

[473] Pulling up to it, I remember we drove up on the West Side Highway and you see the city coming up in the distance.

[474] Like, see the buildings get larger and larger as you get closer.

[475] It's mental.

[476] Didn't seem real.

[477] I remember being on the sidewalk.

[478] Now, this is coming from a place where a sidewalk means there's literally no other person on the sidewalk as far as you can see.

[479] Right.

[480] And they were standing on the sidewalk and must have been uptown somewhere.

[481] And it was like, you couldn't move with people.

[482] I was like, what is happening?

[483] like I've never seen like this is how it is all the time like I live in a street in Haver like a car drove drove down it like once a day and it was probably your dad coming home from work like there was just nothing if you could have if you had a time machine though and you went from 1982 and you said hey what do you think it's gonna look like here in 2019 you'd be like fuck man it's gonna be Matt Max yeah like there'd be fucking cars driving with black smoke coming out of them people shooting people shooting people right on the street it's going to be though it's going to get worse it's not going to get better yeah the only thing i remember right towards my end of being there there was the tomkin square you know downtown and that was where it's just like wherever homeless people lived it was alphabet city it was like the worst um well wait on a back it up when i first moved to york the first night i was there this sounds like i'm making it up and i'm not the first night i was there the dorm that i was in with all my roommates overlooked um union square park which is like needle park You just went there to buy dope, and that was it.

[484] It was now you go there because it's a farmer's market, and it's beautiful.

[485] And I heard this guy screaming and screaming and screaming.

[486] I was like, Jesus Christ, what's going on?

[487] Because it was like 100 degrees.

[488] And, of course, there's no air conditioning.

[489] I look at the window, and I watch these cops beat up this guy.

[490] And I was like, and then they dragged him down to the subway.

[491] And the next day, all these cops showed up at the dorms.

[492] And it was this guy, Michael Stewart.

[493] It became a really famous case.

[494] They called him a graffiti artist And he had been beat to death by the cops And me and all my roommates saw it And the next day they came and took our statement And we all had to testify in front of the grand jury This is my first day out of Haverill Wow I witnessed a murder But again it's like the same thing with like my deal at Universal I was like too Not even where to really comprehend what had seen Like wow things are happening I'm so jaded It didn't disturb me Or seem like I don't know I don't know what's wrong on me But I am desensitized by all the violence I've witnessed as a child I guess Well that would you see more violence before that Well There's one famous thing I remember as a kid There's two famous things I just thought I don't know When I was a kid The family business That my mom came from was like carnivals Like you ever see that movie Karnie?

[495] Yeah with Gary Busey.

[496] That's exactly the life as a kid that I remember.

[497] When I saw the movie, I was like, this is, this is what, this was our life.

[498] We were at.

[499] So that makes sense, this attraction you have, these drifters.

[500] Yeah, it was always what I was surrounded by.

[501] So that was the thing I remember as a kid, except it was around 1977, I think, because I remember Kiss Love Gunner just came out.

[502] Because I was all pumped about it.

[503] And the family worked there, my mom and dad.

[504] And me and my brother had at work and sell food and stuff.

[505] And I hated.

[506] We used to have to dip the candy apples and handle them to people.

[507] And they've healed now, but I had burns all of my hands because the apple candy would be so hot.

[508] It would drip on my hand and burn my hands.

[509] Anyway, I digress.

[510] But one night there was the gambling tents, which were all rigged, of course.

[511] And someone had some guy getting fleeced for all of his money and came back and lit the tent on fire.

[512] And then suddenly, shit hit the fan.

[513] Everybody that me and my little brother had been around all the time, it's like, all these guns start coming out.

[514] And you start hearing guns popping up.

[515] And then the tents just went, like nothing was fireproof.

[516] So everything's on fire.

[517] It's complete chaos.

[518] And I was probably in fifth grade.

[519] My brother was probably in second grade.

[520] And everybody screaming to run around.

[521] And this guy was like, that I don't remember his name, but he worked there.

[522] He was like, hey, you guys should come over here.

[523] And before he finished his sentence, somebody, ran up and hit him in the face with a hammer and broke his whole face open and it was just gushing blood and we're like and then eventually my parents got us in the car and we left which was that was my parent my mom's like we're done this is we're not doing this anymore that was the last time we ever did um wow what a great way to go out though but the best was going to school on september like what did you do this summer and that was my story wow we didn't go to cape camp in a pasaki we when we're in a carnival riot.

[524] What was the gambling tent?

[525] Like, what kind of games are they rigging?

[526] I don't know.

[527] I mean, everything's rigged.

[528] Like, anything from, and it's even a great scene in Carney where a friend of mine who's in a lot of my movies Meg Foster plays the one when she's holding all the long strands of rope.

[529] And Johnny Fawkes, she's training Jody Fawes, like, you pull the rope and it's connected to a prize.

[530] Or, like, and everything's rigged.

[531] Like, the weighted, lead, milk bottles, you're supposed to knock down the softball.

[532] I mean, everything's rig.

[533] I mean, there's certain ways that you know how to cheat them, so when the guy's showing you how to do it, look, it's so easy to throw it like this.

[534] But it's a certain way you can throw it to work, but other ways it won't.

[535] I would never be in the gambling tents because they were actual gambling.

[536] We were like little tiny kids, but it was probably roulette wheels, I'm guessing.

[537] Things like that.

[538] You know, the guy spins it and probably gets something with his foot, and it never stops on the number that the guys got all of his money on because he let him win a bunch of times or something.

[539] So when the fire broke out and people started shoot, who was shooting at who?

[540] I don't know what was going on.

[541] Just chaos.

[542] We're little kids.

[543] Like, you don't really comprehending this going on in, like, fourth and fifth grade.

[544] You're just like, that guy's now got a gun.

[545] I hear gunshots.

[546] Everything's on fire.

[547] There's smoke, people screaming.

[548] This guy's now gushing brains out of the front of his head.

[549] And so, fuck.

[550] I said there were two stories.

[551] Oh, the second story.

[552] The second story I kind of put in this, the new movie Three from Hell.

[553] This was like when I was in high school, I was in the backyard, rehearsing with my two friends, or your band or whatever.

[554] and we heard this screaming and it was a bright sunny day that seemed like a david lynch movie suburbia and this fat naked guy was running down the street covered in blood he'd been stabbed a whole bunch of times like people are mowing their lawns and looking out and i just remember a bloody naked guy running down the street screaming like a weird scream people scream weird when they get stabbed and um so i put some there's something like that in the movie but it just yeah what happened to him I don't know.

[555] I don't know.

[556] He was like, ran out.

[557] He was knocking on people.

[558] So I was like, ah, help me, let me. And again, I was like, oh, it's weird.

[559] And I just went back and we continued rehearsing.

[560] Whoa.

[561] Like, again.

[562] That must have flavored the music a little bit.

[563] Yeah, I don't know.

[564] That day.

[565] I should be, I should be really bothered by things like that.

[566] But I'm not.

[567] Wow.

[568] I mean, there's a thing that happens when you see too much.

[569] It's one of the reasons why cops and soldiers have some of the oddest sense of humor.

[570] I can see that.

[571] Yeah, they've just seen too many bodies.

[572] They've seen...

[573] Yeah.

[574] I mean, imagine the guys that have to come scrape up all the stuff off the road and put in the bags.

[575] Yeah.

[576] Yeah, I mean, after, you know...

[577] Yeah.

[578] But yeah, that was the life I remember.

[579] I remember my mom's brother, he would always...

[580] He didn't always do this, but sometimes he was a biker, so he'd come over to the house and he had a chopper with iron crosses on it.

[581] He kind of looked like, let me have a big mustache.

[582] And I was like, this guy is bad ass.

[583] Like, drives around the neighborhood so everyone can see us.

[584] you know there's a lot of that stuff so when you were saying that you collect films and you have films did you go back to like the really old ones like nosferado oh yeah I love silent movies and now they're easier to get because I always love Lon Cheney but so many of the films are hard to get I was showing my kids Lonchaney two nights ago what movie did they much?

[585] Well I was showing them the original Wolfman and I was showing him Jekyll and Hyde I was showing him some of the Lawn Cheney Jr. Well La Cheney Jr. was Wolfman but his dad who's in like Phantom of the Opera and Hunchback in Notre Dame.

[586] Wasn't he Jekyllen Hyde as well?

[587] That was Long Cheney, right?

[588] No, Frederick March.

[589] Oh, what?

[590] Well, it depends.

[591] There's the John Barrymore.

[592] Silent Jekyllyn Hyde, but you're probably true.

[593] The Frederick March one is great.

[594] It's so perverted.

[595] Is it really?

[596] The prostitutes and stuff.

[597] Isn't that the one you showed your kids?

[598] Like from the 30?

[599] Oh, yeah, for sure.

[600] From the 30s?

[601] After they watch porn.

[602] Well, there's the boring one with Spencer Tracy has Jacklin Harry.

[603] Is it boring?

[604] It just compared to the other one.

[605] The other ones are.

[606] Because anything that's sort of like, The pre -code stuff is really amazing.

[607] We watched the beginning of the Spencer Tracy one because it was so strange.

[608] There's actually, when, you know, on iTunes you can watch a preview, but it's not really a preview in its old films because they didn't have previews back then.

[609] So it's just a scene.

[610] And it's a scene when he's becoming Mr. Hyde, but he doesn't look any different.

[611] Yeah, he just kind of messed up his hair.

[612] It looks a little meaner.

[613] The Frederick March one is one of the best ones ever made.

[614] It's so good.

[615] But Lone Chaney was like It was Phantom of the Opera Which is a really interesting one Because he like that He put on some really painful makeup for that film I mean he just invented everything Yeah The things he'd do I mean I don't know how much The stories have been exaggerated by Publicity departments over the years But yeah I mean it's just incredible And movies like the unknown Or the unholy three Like you can get everything now Forever it's like impossible To see these movies For a long time I don't do it anymore But I used to collect vintage movie posters And that's what I would go after the the laun cheney silent movie posters because a lot of times we're like there's only one of these in existence and i was like i got to have it then i realize i'm spending too much money on things those old films um you know when i'm i was trying to show them to my kids i was just trying to we were we were going from the 20s to the 30s there's a movie that's the original horror film that i found out was 1920 it's actually two years older than nosferado it was uh doctor something Caligari.

[616] Caligari.

[617] Yeah, that's a good one.

[618] Yeah, we watched a little bit of that too.

[619] But I just wanted to show them how weird it is, like the progression of film, particularly like scary films, because when my kids were real little, my wife was out of town, and I said, do you guys want to watch a scary movie that's not really scary?

[620] And they were nervous.

[621] How old were they?

[622] At the time, I think they were five and three, or maybe six and four, somewhere around there.

[623] So I'm throwing down the test.

[624] Do you want to watch it?

[625] But I knew what.

[626] wasn't going to be really scary.

[627] So I put on the original King Kong from, what was that, like, 30, 33, I think, yeah.

[628] And we were laughing.

[629] I was like, let me tell you something.

[630] We're going to watch this.

[631] And it's so fake.

[632] It looks so dumb.

[633] I go, we're going to laugh.

[634] And so we're cuddled up on the couch.

[635] They were nervous.

[636] And then once they saw the thing, they're like, that's it.

[637] That's the monster.

[638] I was like, let me tell you something, kid.

[639] In 1933, this was scary for people.

[640] They really thought this was realistic.

[641] They thought this was amazing.

[642] Do you ever have that moment you watch something, like, say, I'd do this, like, Frankenstein.

[643] Like, you've seen it so many times that it's hard to watch it like you've never seen it before.

[644] But sometimes I'll be watching something, and there'll be a scene where, like, Frankenstein is killing Fritz.

[645] And there's no music, and he's just screaming.

[646] I was like, this must have fucking been so intense because no one had seen anything like this.

[647] They're watching this creature who they don't understand the makeup because no one knew who I was done.

[648] Like, especially because he kind of, the first appearance of Carl off his Frankenstein.

[649] He kind of backs in and turns.

[650] His head's flat.

[651] He's got bolts on his neck.

[652] The Jack Pierce makeup is so incredible that I was just like, people must have been like running for the door.

[653] Pull up a picture of what Boris Karloff looked like in that movie.

[654] I haven't seen that in forever.

[655] It's so good.

[656] It was so good.

[657] I mean, also, it's so difficult for us to understand perspective.

[658] Like to put yourself in their place back then.

[659] Yeah, look at that.

[660] The lighting was incredible.

[661] Now, we're used to seeing that.

[662] It's so iconic that, like, or that it becomes like, but if you never, I mean, never seen anything like that before.

[663] I mean, I guess going back to what we said a second ago, like Lon Cheney and Phantom of the Opera and his Quasimotor, you kind of.

[664] The bolts on the neck.

[665] But that must have just been like.

[666] Fucking cables for a battery.

[667] That's so crazy.

[668] The posts on his neck.

[669] Do you remember when they did a remake with De Niro?

[670] I do.

[671] I don't remember it movie very good.

[672] I don't remember it either.

[673] remember of being terrifying looking like they're updated yeah he looked cool in that yeah it's a tough one though with those movies because they got it so right the first time yeah and the performances are like when i watch like i i really like legosi in dracula and when you watch it i always feel like he's like brando of that time because everyone else is like talking like yeah well you like they're still doing vodkaville and they're way over the top and then too much and he's like this in this doing this thing where sometimes he almost can't understand him because of his accent like wow he's like in this whole weird head trip and they're like doing play hey listen buddy you know like the way they're talking yeah it's and that's why nobody can remember david manners who got paid 10 times with the go see but but legosi's like this iconic thing like Marilyn monroe i mean it just was so out of time with so special what they were doing yeah even in when in the film there's a scene where the woman had been bit and he's like well it's right what's going on he's so corny and over the top in that you know the style of that era but Lagosi is on another level and the and like everybody like a lot of those actors then seemed very much like they were in the closet and they were trying to like play with the woman and Lagosi has that vibe like I'm gonna fuck everything on this set before I leave this movie you know he just reeks of like I'm from I'm Hungarian and I'm gonna nail every actress in this film yeah and he's a fucking powerful vampire like you bought into it like he was in the role he was yeah in the headspace and a lot of those movies another good one's like the black cat where like the same guy was in the draculas in and he's so like swishing over the top and lagosi and carloff together is so intense it's like this two different movies going on the this weird Hollywood and this weird thing these other guys are doing man it's like brando and apocalypse now like he's making a whole different movie him and this hopper you know it's cool to just go back in time and see the progression of of horror to go from those films like i still think nosferado to this day is one of the coolest vampires ever it's so incredible looking there was no there was no sort of benchmark before him right i mean and he looked so fucking weird with the long fingers and he looked creepy and the way he would rise remember when they had him on a board oh yeah it just was like straight up it's so it looks incredible and i still let and i love the um Um, the Herzog remake with Klaus Kinski.

[674] Oh, that's right.

[675] Warner Herzog did that.

[676] Yeah.

[677] And Kinski's so, like, so perfect.

[678] Wow.

[679] Because he's like another crazy actor that just reeks of crazy right off the screen.

[680] Yes, yes, yeah.

[681] It's just hard to do a good monster movie these days.

[682] I mean, I'm a gigantic Rick Baker fan.

[683] Obviously, you see the...

[684] Yeah, Rick's amazing.

[685] He's coming on here, too.

[686] Oh, is he?

[687] Super pumped.

[688] Oh, yeah, his new book looks amazing.

[689] Yeah, I'm so excited.

[690] I'm getting him to...

[691] promote that but I'm just I was when I was a kid I wanted to be a makeup artist it was one of things that I wanted to do yeah so I studied Rick Baker and I studied you know the the early long Cheney days like we were talking about and I just love the prosthetics and like Star Wars and shit like which by the way I went to the Star Wars attraction yesterday oh you did Disneyland it's the shit oh that fucking Star Wars ride the ride is incredible man you're actually simulated though right yes I can't do it but you're simulated rides make me want to just I won't throw up, but I'll feel like I want to for the rest of the day.

[692] It's awesome.

[693] It's awesome.

[694] So my kids were steering.

[695] They got a chance to steer the, they were the pilots, and you're slamming into fucking, because they have to coordinate.

[696] One goes up, one goes left and right.

[697] So up and down is one kid and left and right.

[698] Are they next to each other in the cockpit, or are they separate?

[699] Next to each other.

[700] Pretty close.

[701] But they're screaming at each other.

[702] Don't hit it.

[703] Oh, my God.

[704] But they're like asteroids flying.

[705] Boom.

[706] Things are hitting shit.

[707] But just.

[708] the ride is fucking incredible.

[709] I mean, you could see there's so much money poured into there, and apparently there's a bunch of other ones that are, they're in the process of developing, too.

[710] Oh, really?

[711] But I loved those movies, and a big part of it was like, like the canteen scene, if you, if you went to that now, you'd be like, oh my God, it's obviously a mask.

[712] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[713] Like, their face doesn't be like, ah.

[714] It's like that weird, weird wolf guy.

[715] Yeah, no, but they're not moving.

[716] Yeah.

[717] But back, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[718] But back down i was like this is amazing this is the crazy thing i've ever seen i can so clearly see that remember seeing that movie for the first time because i was like it like you come out of i remember coming out of the movie like shell shock like everything i thought about everything just changed yeah life will never be the same that's another movie that's so hard to put in perspective i've watched it with my kids now and it's like you got to bring them back to the 1970s when this movie came out you don't get it like back then this was fucking insane how good it was Yeah.

[719] People would watch, I mean, I watched it like, I think we had like little competitions with our friends to see who could watch it the most amount of times.

[720] I think I saw it like 13 times.

[721] Yeah, I mean, it's crazy.

[722] And I, someone gave me a laser, not a laser performance, a Blu -ray of the original before Lucas did all the extra stuff and ruined it.

[723] Somehow they had cut together, somebody went to all the trouble of getting like a Japanese lasers and they cut together a Blu -ray of exactly the movie as it was in 1977.

[724] What did you do differently in the new?

[725] version.

[726] Enhance some of the special effects.

[727] He added that scene with the digital, you know, job of the HUD and just like, they'll be like the tauntan.

[728] It's like, there's just little robots and bullshit everywhere that wasn't there in the original.

[729] And now what seems so badass for effects and whenever it was 2000 now looks super bad.

[730] Cheesy.

[731] But the stuff from 77 still, that's why I always want to, like you watch 2001, you go like, how can this still look better than everything?

[732] These are literally models shot in 1968.

[733] or something.

[734] Well, Kubrick knew the limitations of the visual format.

[735] And so he shot things in a way where he didn't he wasn't willing to compromise the way something looked to show you something that like, like, sort of like the King Kong animation.

[736] Like, that's the best they could do back then.

[737] Yeah.

[738] But Kubrick figured workarounds.

[739] I just read this new book that came out well maybe six months ago that's all about the make him 2001 and it's, the book is so detailed.

[740] I wish you could remember the title of.

[741] And It's amazing the amount of time, like stuff you take for granted now, just how they had to make the digital readouts on the computer screens.

[742] Because that stuff did not exist at all.

[743] So the amount of time that went into just simple background things that nobody cares about, it's just mind -blowing.

[744] Just the weightlessness scenes and how they did all that stuff, which still look amazing.

[745] No, it's still an incredible movie.

[746] And it's also a time capsule, right?

[747] It's like it's one of those films that it's great, but it's also great.

[748] a time caps.

[749] Yeah.

[750] It's, I love it because, I love all of his movies for the same reason.

[751] Because they take over the viewer.

[752] Like most movies there are like, you watch it and it's doing what the movie thinks will make you happy.

[753] Whereas Kubrick's doing stuff like, well, this is what it would be like to be in space.

[754] Yeah.

[755] This is the pace it's going to unfold at.

[756] Yeah.

[757] Like, which is painfully slow at times.

[758] Well, you can't get away with that today.

[759] No, because people are too, they're I don't know they don't have their attention span I don't think and same thing with Barry Lyndon or Clockwork Orange doesn't matter what movie it is his to the shining yes like now if someone made the shine and it'd go it's great you got to cut the first hour out of it you know we're gonna start it with the red rum scene yeah started with a hatchet slamming into somebody yeah the opening shot would be and then go three months earlier yeah they'd get with his axe yeah they would do that they would go three months earlier you know they would do that it's um it's It's cool to see, though, like, those films, they did what they could do with what was available.

[760] Whereas with now, the problem with CGI is they use it.

[761] And they overuse it.

[762] And I think that I don't, I mean, CGI can be phenomenal.

[763] For sure.

[764] But it's a tool and it's turned into a crutch.

[765] And I see it with actors.

[766] Like, you see actors a lot of time.

[767] And I feel bad for the actors.

[768] So you see actors that you go, I know these guys are great.

[769] But they're awful in this movie.

[770] because they didn't train to stand in a warehouse that's green and pretend to look at stuff.

[771] Yeah, right?

[772] So they really, like when you watch the Phantom Manish, you go, why does it suddenly seem like Liam Neeson can't act?

[773] Right, right, right, right.

[774] Because he's like, they're like, look at that dot on the wall.

[775] I mean, and you know these guys are incredible actors.

[776] I was talking to somebody once a kid that was in my movie, he was in all the Spy Kids movies, and he said it was so hard because they'd be on a green screen, they'd be like, you're looking at that, well, we're not sure what you're looking at, but just stare at that dot and react he's like what is it is it a dragon or is it my mom what am I reacting to like we haven't figured it out yet and he said he was always in a constant state of confusion as to what he was reacting to well it's hard too when you go back and you look at some of them like you know what movie got it right that sort of didn't get enough respect in its time but in in time like as time passed it's become more respected as Starship Troopers yeah I don't I don't remember that movie that well.

[777] It's a, you know, it's all like, killer bumps.

[778] No, but like they're like removing Major Dan's legs.

[779] I mean, that's like when CG's awesome.

[780] I thought, oh, shit, they found a guy with no legs who's a great actor because I don't know who Gary Sinise was back there.

[781] How about the ping pong scene?

[782] Yeah, right.

[783] There's a lot of, like, CGI shit.

[784] The, um, what it was getting out with, with monster movies, though, it's, um, Pat McGee.

[785] He's a guy who did that werewolf, the one that's out there.

[786] He'll make them for you, like he makes problems.

[787] Oh, really?

[788] And we had this conversation about it.

[789] We were saying that you can see CGI.

[790] And even if it's awesome, your brain knows it's CGI.

[791] That's funny.

[792] I have that same thought that it's something subliminally your brain knows it's all fake.

[793] Yes.

[794] Like Godzilla.

[795] Whereas like, yeah, like Godzilla, like when you know it's a guy in a rubber suit crushing things.

[796] Like if you watch the original one like when they cut in Raymond Burr, there's something so dark and fucked up about that movie.

[797] Yes.

[798] Because everything's that's real.

[799] fire there's actually three -dimensional objects blowing up but when it's so big and fake like i always say like what's scarier uh a giant cg creature that you know you will never see or like a maniac with a pillowcase over his head holding an axe coming at you like your brain goes that could happen i get it yes the other thing's like well that's i'm not gonna that's like roger rabbit that's not gonna happen you know it's not it might be cool or it might be big but it's not like well like one of the scariest horror movies of all time is alien.

[800] And in the first few encounters they have with the creature, you don't even see the damn thing.

[801] No, because it's, you couldn't show it that much like the, you know, like the shark and jaws.

[802] But when you see it, it's like it's actually there.

[803] Yes.

[804] And you can feel that its jaws are right in front of Sigourney Weaver's face.

[805] Yes.

[806] It's not like she's looking at nothing and her eye line's a little off because it's a, you know, a tennis ball and a stick she's looking at.

[807] There's something about it really happening in the space that I think people can feel it.

[808] And Sigourney Weaver.

[809] I think Sigourney Weaver and Alien is the greatest female action hero star ever.

[810] Because you bought it, hook, line, and sinker.

[811] She was a scientist.

[812] She wasn't supposed to be this heroin that's out there just fucking things up and killing everybody.

[813] And she wasn't supposed to be super hot and sexy and young.

[814] But she was hot enough.

[815] Because she became tough and it made her, but like the whole, I remember when Alien came out.

[816] It was kind of like when the thing came out and all the reviews were bad.

[817] if you remember.

[818] Was it really?

[819] I mean, the rooms are everything are bad when you go back and they're like, oh, there's no redeemable characters or they're all cartoon these cardboard characters.

[820] They rip everything apart.

[821] But like, it's like Harry Dean Stanton Yaffat Koto and every great character actor doing these great roles but it was like, now if they re -made that it'd be like everybody would, you know, but that's the thing.

[822] The reviews never mean anything.

[823] They're just like so crazy.

[824] The first time, was it Harry Dean Stanton that saw it the first time?

[825] Who was it that saw it the first time where they climbed down into the uh they climbed down the stairs and it's it's right there i don't remember you'll see it for like a second but it was a physical thing but the point is it was an actual guy in a suit yeah and you knew by the way it was moving that it was an actual guy right in front of it and it took up three -dimensional space in real life and you could feel it you could yes and you know yeah i mean just like when the chest burst thing yes it's a it's an actual thing it's a thing you know it's like it's fucking bizarre or an american we're off in london same exactly you see brief glimpses of this thing like really quick like one frame one second of it you know and then at the end of it you you see it even when they murder they kill it in the hallway or in the alleyway spoiler alert um that you know you only see it for a couple seconds when it when it stares at her and then they gun it down yeah that was like the heyday for effects Everybody I know who does effects, it was like the thing, American Werewolf in London, or the howling was like the thing that made every, and Fangoria when that started.

[826] And you started really getting articles and stuff and like Rob Boatine and Rick Baker became like rock stars to the horror nerds.

[827] Well, the Rick Baker scene, um, when he transforms into the werewolf in the chick's apartment, when he's in the nurse's apartment for the first time.

[828] And he's like, I'm fucking burning up.

[829] His back is popping.

[830] And it's like bright.

[831] It's a bright lit apartment.

[832] That's what makes it weird.

[833] Yes, and the hand stretch.

[834] Fucking wild man to this day.

[835] So weird.

[836] And then he tried to kind of recreate like the actual makeup style werewolf with the wolf man with Benicio del Toro.

[837] Yeah.

[838] But it just wasn't there.

[839] The movie wasn't there.

[840] It just wasn't quite good enough.

[841] But there's one fucking badass scene where it becomes the wolf man when they're in the insane asylum and they're doing tests on them?

[842] Do you remember that film?

[843] I don't remember that film that much.

[844] I remember I don't, I hate saying things because this was my thought at the time.

[845] I remember watching it thinking Benicio de Toro seems like he doesn't want to be in this movie.

[846] Which is such a stupid thing for me to say because I don't know what the fuck he wants.

[847] I think he's a brilliant actor and I really like watching but it just had that feeling like I don't know what it was and I I've talked to people connected with that movie and I don't think it was a great experience for people for some reason.

[848] Maybe there's a lot of meddling.

[849] Probably a lot of meddling.

[850] Is that something that's a difficult thing to manage or do you not have to deal with that anymore?

[851] I had to deal with that a lot when I made the two Halloween movies for Weinstein Company.

[852] Because they're this gigantic franchise.

[853] Well, there was weird meddling.

[854] It was just like kind of psychotic meddling.

[855] How so?

[856] Just weird like, like my phone was ringing all the time when I'm on set working and it'd be like, we think it should be this.

[857] I'm like, well, if I did working?

[858] Yeah.

[859] Well, if I did that, then everything we shot doesn't match.

[860] And it makes no sense.

[861] It's just like...

[862] They're doing Coke and just coming up by this.

[863] I don't know.

[864] It's just weird thoughts all the time.

[865] But I mean, a lot of times, I don't want to like name all these names of people, but I remember working on one movie that never happened.

[866] And whatever was the number one movie from that weekend was exactly the notes I would get for what we're working on.

[867] It didn't.

[868] And I swear to her, because it was around the time of private parts.

[869] And private parts was number one.

[870] I go, I guarantee you when I walk in the office, they're going to say, can we get Howard Stern in this movie?

[871] And they did.

[872] No!

[873] Yes, it didn't matter what it was.

[874] If it was Starship Troopers, they go, can we get giant bugs in this movie suddenly?

[875] It wasn't a Halloween movies.

[876] There's another movie that never actually happened, but, and you're just like, this is insanity.

[877] The uncreative executive that wants to be creative is that is a classic story in Hollywood.

[878] I mean, that's really like a villain in a film about a movie, about a guy trying to make a movie.

[879] Yeah, I mean, I always thought, I will give credit for things.

[880] like I remember working with Bob Weinstein and I always thought like the first thing he would say was spot on like they love movies and they have a good sense of movies and he would say something he'd be like and what happens between the second act and the third act it's a bunch of bullshit that doesn't work and you go yeah you're right it is but like when he went to the next level of the detail of what's wrong with it it's kind of like someone going like that joke's not funny here's how it would be funny you're like no no right the first part of your sentence was I don't need you now to tell me how to make it funny And that's what happens I don't do them anymore But back when I would be forced to do test screenings With an audience You could just sitting there you'll know You'll go okay they're bored during this part It's boring or they're not laughing It's supposed to be funny I don't now need That kid to get up and explain to the studio How to save the picture Because he watched a movie once So the process is like half good Half insanity Do you get any people upset that in some way you might be glorifying violence?

[881] Maybe, but I never hear about it, because I don't think that's true.

[882] I mean, or if it is true, it doesn't, I don't think it matters.

[883] Really?

[884] Because it's fake, it's not real.

[885] Right.

[886] I mean, it's like, I don't think the rules of real life apply to art. I just don't.

[887] Right.

[888] Because that's why art exists.

[889] just like, you know, that you just, and you just have to feel that way because it's like, okay, well, if we're going to run every movie through the PC filter, then in American History X, Edward Norton can't be racist.

[890] Sure.

[891] And now we actually, we don't have a movie or, you know, Travis Bickle can't kill anyone.

[892] He just has to save Jody Foster because he's a nice person.

[893] You know, like it ruins everything.

[894] I mean, but the rules of real life are different.

[895] But for fiction, I mean, They can't be rules.

[896] Right.

[897] And how else are you going to depict these absolutely possible scenarios?

[898] Like if we're saying that there isn't suicidal maniacs in real life, like, well, that's nonsense.

[899] So if you're allowed to make a depiction of real life, of course, it's going to have to include racists, murderers, psychopaths, everything.

[900] And I just think it's, you know, it's art and it can go anywhere.

[901] And it's always, if it's shocking, that's probably good.

[902] And it won't be shocking next year.

[903] Like how whatever you're showing your kids That at one point was shocking Now they're like seriously dead Yeah we were talking about jaws That jaws today apparently Would be PG It was PG then Was it?

[904] Can you believe that?

[905] No Yeah Was it?

[906] It was Oh my God It was just shocking Especially Scared the fuck out of everybody But that's Because my parents took us to see it Which was awesome But I was traumatized For sure Yeah that was a crazy movie I didn't want to have Anything to do with the water after that movie.

[907] Yeah, I still don't.

[908] But the special effects as well, man, when that shark rises out of the water for the first time, he's like, fuck.

[909] When he's throwing the chum in the water, don't you come on down here and chump some of this shit.

[910] We're going to need a bigger boat.

[911] Like, it's hard to believe those lines were like once just lines in a script.

[912] Yeah, I know they're iconic.

[913] They're a part of culture now.

[914] It's amazing.

[915] Yeah.

[916] Do you think that there, is there a style of film or a kind of movie that you want to do that you haven't done yet, that you're thinking you'd like to get into?

[917] I mean, there's two different projects I tried to develop for a long time and they both failed to get off the ground.

[918] One was this movie called the Broad Street Bullies and it was about the 1974 Philadelphia Flyers and the movie is, the true story is so insane that you can't believe it's real.

[919] Just the way that they decided, you know, they were a fledgling team, nobody cared so they basically built a team of tough guys which is kind of like slap shots almost like the same.

[920] One the Stanley Cup twice based on just being so scared and so terrorizing other teams would be scared to play them and they'd be like oh you get the Philly flu because major players be like I'm too sick to play when we get to Philly because and you go back and you watch the fights that took place during those those seasons they literally go into the crowd and they're fighting with fans they come off the ice they break up I mean when the guys are fighting it's not and it doesn't seem like good nature like okay we're going to go we're going ago it seems like gripping someone's hair and punching them in the face till their teeth are all gone type fighting cops are breaking up the fights on the ice cops cops with skates no uniform policemen come onto the ice and start breaking things up but they're sliding around with their yeah trying to it's all on youtube it's amazing i mean i just i research this for for years and um and then they just you know and bobby clark at that time was like the most hated man and hockey i don't know if you're a hockey fan or all but he was just like another one of those guys who he had i don't know i could go on forever for a movie that didn't make but but i kept trying to make it go and go and just could it just never you could just never and i was in went to philadelphia i was hanging out with the team and i was in their archives and having access to everything i thought this is going to happen and just couldn't it wouldn't move why why not i don't know i don't know if the team and the team owners want to glorify that time in the and if there's an amazing documentary on it that was on HBO maybe like five years ago.

[921] You got to watch it.

[922] Do you remember the name?

[923] It might have been called Broad Street Bullies because the spectrum was on Broad Street.

[924] So that's the other good name.

[925] But it's nuts.

[926] And it was like, you know, Dave Schultz and he's wearing like a Nazi helmet and he was the tough guy on the team that everybody was pet fried of.

[927] And these guys that like had really long hair and big beards.

[928] I mean, it's not like hockey.

[929] You know, it looked like a maniac.

[930] And they'd get stuff like, you know, you'd see him get stitches.

[931] get hit get stitched go back on the ice with the stitches there's jerseys covered in blood and they don't even change their jersey they're playing covered in blood well it's such a crazy something they never do now well that sport still to this day is such a throwback because it's the only sport where you're allowed to fight in the middle of the sport imagine if they had that with basketball hockey players are the toughest motherfuckers because i always love hockey i want to be a hockey player when i was little kid and that was my thing and for a long time me and my wife we had season tickets for the king so we'd go go to every single game year after year after year and we'd always hang out with the team and they'd come to our house and then party and we'd always be with them in Vegas and they're like football players on skates and they're all for like these guys from like Moose Jaw Saskatchewan and like they get their teeth out and they get crazy in the bar and they're like mental and they're just like who else is skating at 90 miles now crashing into boards that are just have no give but it's so interesting that it's the one sport where it's written in that you can fight They fight.

[932] I mean, it's so funny.

[933] It's so crazy.

[934] Like, that would make so many sports so much more interesting, but nobody would ever do it.

[935] Yeah.

[936] It's literally the tough guy sport.

[937] It is the tough guy sport.

[938] And the thing that always drove me crazy, like, drove me crazy like it involves me. But they would always advertise the L .A. Kings as like, it's like this family thing.

[939] Like, oh, come on down and cheer for the Kings.

[940] And it'd be like a girl in a hockey jersey on the billboards around time.

[941] I'm like, you should just put up mugshot style portraits of the players, like smiling.

[942] with their teeth missing and it just says you think you're fucking tough kings because they're and then it's not like the old days where they're kind of like skillful they're like this guy's like six foot five and you put them on skates and they're huge and they're all jacked up and big like football players except they're on skates they're fucking scary dudes for a hard sell for a lot of people but what's not a hard sell is MMA which is weird right?

[943] Because that's like the darling of so many you go to the fights and that Damon will be there and Leonardo DiCaprio and everybody wants to be seen there and Kanye's in the crowd and it's one of those things where people have decided like that's okay meanwhile they're smashing their faces open with elbows on the ground mental man heads trapped against the cage and they're pummeling each other and it's okay and you watch it they break it up like I'm pretty sure that guys already got brain damage you need to stop that punching yeah seconds earlier well it's it's okay though because it's become except like like that's what I'm saying that's weird like a fight in a basketball came is a giant deal like oh my god that guy shoves another guy and it's like a big deal this is crazy yeah if a guy you know like judo tossed a guy and landed on his head somebody did that recently in a hockey game was awful like Robin Black did a breakdown of it where some guy got a guy in a clinch and hit him with a hip toss and slammed his head onto the concrete it was horrible it's weird I mean I can see why they they want I think they probably like hockey being more family friendly because the arenas are so nice you know bring the kids and they don't want a bunch of maniacs beating the shit out of each other but they can still fight they can still fight but it is watch this this is crazy boom oh that's bad that's horrible that's an asshole move because like that's not even fighting like and plus that guy landed with both of their weights guys on his head he's out cold i mean that's like serious serious fucking brain yeah i remember one time one particular incident of king's game where the guy was out of and it went on forever and the vibe was so heavy in the arena because we're like, is he dead?

[944] Because, you know, when someone hits and they just stop moving in that way.

[945] They stiffen up.

[946] Freaks you out.

[947] You pull up some Broad Street bullies fighting from 1974.

[948] Pull up some of that.

[949] Yeah, I've seen so many.

[950] Dave Schultz.

[951] Oh, that's this thing.

[952] Yeah, this is the documentary.

[953] It's amazing.

[954] Oh, look at the way they look back then.

[955] Everything, it's like back in the day.

[956] It's just such a weird thing to see people from that era.

[957] Oh, here they are.

[958] They don't, this is like early days before they became insane.

[959] Oh, so it built up.

[960] Because what happened was when they were starting as a team, they got really manhandled one time by a certain team.

[961] And they were like, this is never going to happen again.

[962] And they rebuilt the team with basically like thug type guys.

[963] I'm always amazed that anybody could punch while they're on skates.

[964] I can't even skate.

[965] How the fuck do you maintain your upright position?

[966] I don't know.

[967] These guys are amazing athletes.

[968] One time I went, I went down and got to skate at practice with the L .A. kings with the guys who were injured and man that rink seems small when those big guys are all getting on their ice it seems like wow there's no room up here but it's also they collide into each other against the wall which the amount of shock on your body i know it's amazing that i mean they just go and go and go well maybe we can reignite some interest with this conversation because i think that would be it he's pulling his fucking hair yeah it wasn't it was i'm gonna wash that it's amazing so have you tried again recently or do you really think that it's just like they just don't want to be connected to this story well there's this guy ed schneider who was the guy who started the whole team and that's where and i met with i thought he was the reason it wasn't going to happen and then he passed away because i mean he was pretty old and then we started talking to the newer people and it just i don't know you like how many years am i my life am i going to dictate you know right right right right and you don't know and someone said to me one time well you got further than anyone else ever did i'm like how many times are they tried to make this movie i didn't you warn me about that five years ago is there any other kind of movie that you're you're interested in other than something like that well yeah there was this other one that i worked on for a long time that never went either i had bought the rights to this book called raised eyebrows which was a light that about the last few years of groucho marks's life this guy steve stolia wrote it and he was a 19 year old college kid who started this petition drive.

[969] Do you like the Marx Brothers?

[970] Love them.

[971] Yeah.

[972] And because animal crackers had been lost.

[973] That was the lost film.

[974] And at UC, I think it was at UCLA.

[975] Sorry, Steve, I can't remember your college.

[976] He started this petition drive to get Animal Crackers released from the vault and released, because it hadn't been seen since like the 40s or something.

[977] And he did.

[978] This was in the early 70s.

[979] And through that, he became Groucho's assistant.

[980] But Groucho's final years are really dark.

[981] Because he kept having strokes and he was ill and he had this woman erin fleming who was supposed to be his they kind of played it like it was his girlfriend but she was so the caretaker and it was turns into sunset boulevard inside his house you know and steve eventually is put in charge of groucho because it's a really dark story turns in the sunset bill of our house oh because he groucho was being abused and drugged by this woman she isolated from his family and it's like happening in his beverly hills home and it's just dark it was dark towards the end for groucho really and And, but the book is fascinating because the guy wrote it, Steve, who's, you know, still alive and we're friends.

[982] I was just like, it was one of those books you're reading like five seconds.

[983] And I just happened to find it by accident.

[984] I was like, this is an amazing movie.

[985] But again, years and years going on and trying to get it made and just can't get it going.

[986] Groucho was such a controversial character.

[987] He had one of the greatest lines ever on you bet your life.

[988] He's talking to this guy and he's asked the guy like, you're married, yes.

[989] How many kids are the cigar line?

[990] The guy says he got a gang of kids.

[991] He goes, geez.

[992] he goes he goes oh i love my wife he goes i love my cigar too but i take it out of my mouth every now and then yeah that is that was a hugely controversial line yeah he's was amazing and he was like and he was very outspoken he was like on nixon's shit list and stuff and he didn't give my years inside groucho's house yeah it's really fast if you get that book you'll read in like two seconds that's it's always sad when some iconic old figure like is being taken care of as he's older and you know he's getting fucked over and someone's waiting for him to die so they can get the money.

[993] Yeah, and she kept kind of doing saying, like, we're going to make your comeback Groucho and we're going to do us TV special.

[994] It's going to be, you know, like, you and Frank Sinatra.

[995] And Groucho's like, you know, had on his like third stroke and it's like, can't really talk or, you know.

[996] And it's just like, and a couple of the final appearances of him are pretty rough because he was pretty sharp and good, even when he was older.

[997] We watched him on Dick Cavett or something, but then it got bad.

[998] And then how did this lady get into his life?

[999] How did that go down?

[1000] I'm trying to remember.

[1001] She was, I think she was a secretary at first and just kind of weasled her way in.

[1002] I can't remember exactly.

[1003] I should, I should be able to remember.

[1004] I read the book so many stories like that of like, oh, I think there was a Stan Lee story like that in his last few days.

[1005] That happens a lot.

[1006] Yeah, people were trying to get his money.

[1007] I remember, remember that one, Martha Ray?

[1008] Yes.

[1009] That was like the thing towards the end with her.

[1010] Like, he was like, oh, and her boyfriend.

[1011] And she's like this in a wheelchair.

[1012] oh that's right yeah yeah weird shit and i was like yeah oh yeah that is sad shit and their kids are done with them and so someone else is taken care of them well they're so old their kids have all died of old age you know and this was like you know so you wanted to do that film yeah what happened with that it just it just couldn't get it going we thought we'd every time it seemed like we were on the move it just would stall and then i had a falling out with the producers and And I was like, you know, five years spent with this, I'm out.

[1013] Oh, my God, the dream of time.

[1014] Yeah, that's the thing.

[1015] Like, for every movie I've ever gotten made, there's probably five others that I tried to get made that couldn't get made.

[1016] So it's a real time suck.

[1017] Yeah, that's a fucking huge drag, man. Now, when you do get a film made, is it generally that you come to the studio and you have this idea and you bring it to them?

[1018] Yeah.

[1019] it's usually like well the Halloween movies were different because I remember I had no thought I wasn't thinking about Halloween I wasn't thinking about anything like that and I got the thing like oh you know the Weinstein company wants you to go have a meeting with him Bob Weinstein he's in L .A. Yada yada yada so I go in to meet him and he's just like Halloween what do you think it's a great fucking movie I mean I didn't know what he was getting at he's like we own the rights and we want to do something with him we don't know what to do because they didn't know if they wanted to make another sequel or just call it Halloween but not have Michael Myers and like there was no preconceived idea and it was my idea to basically try to reboot it start over with new people playing all the same roles and do that and that was I don't know it came out 2007 so it was per 2006 when I did that who was involved in the more recent one Lionsgate is the company that did three from hell because I had done after Universal booted me with House of a Thousand Corps it was eventually acquired by the Lionsgate and Lionsgate made the sequel Devil's Rejects and then which was already 15 years ago and a couple years ago I got a real bug to make another one I just went into the Lionsgate and it was the same executive still there and I was like what do you think about doing this and they're like they were saying like you know what that was the last really fun time we had making a movie let's do it that's kind of feel good yeah it was great I was like wow that's sad but okay now do you have long -term plans like in terms of like what you want to accomplish a guy who makes movies?

[1020] Well, yes and no. I mean, I don't have a, I'm not trying to gear up towards making bigger films because I know I wouldn't work in that system because it's just not, I don't want to make things by committee.

[1021] I want to go like, this is the fucked up crazy thing I want to do and I don't want to water, because I know so many people that'll be like our friend Tom Papa.

[1022] I remember him telling me about his TV show, come to Papa.

[1023] That, um, it was like this certain idea.

[1024] He said, by the time the TV people watered it down and changed it, and he gets on the air, he's like, well, so far removed from the original idea that I don't, you know, and I don't want to do that, you know, and so I would rather, my goal is just get it made, whatever it takes, not worried about.

[1025] Don't try to be blockbuster guy.

[1026] I don't care.

[1027] I mean, you know, the Halloween movies were on 4 ,000 screens.

[1028] It was like the number one movie made up, but it didn't make me any happier.

[1029] It's just about making the thing where I can look and go like, I love it, I'm done.

[1030] Because, you know, that's at this stage, that's what I want to do.

[1031] Yeah, the genre is still so attractive, but there's just not a lot of those examples other than, like, well, your films are probably the most prominent currently.

[1032] Well, I mean, everything's meant, I mean, horror movies are big business, but if they look at it that way, then they start making them overly palatable to a wide audience.

[1033] There's types of horror movies, though, you know, there's like supernatural horror movies.

[1034] There's monster movies, but then there's like homicidal mediac movies.

[1035] And you kind of own that shit.

[1036] Redneck homicides.

[1037] I mean, who's got it?

[1038] You know, it's like the hills have eyes.

[1039] Yeah, right.

[1040] And then you.

[1041] There you go.

[1042] Right.

[1043] You know what I mean?

[1044] It's like that kind of psychopath, chainsaw massacre type shit.

[1045] I love white trash type stuff.

[1046] Well, the Carney background.

[1047] Because that's just, yeah.

[1048] I was that typical kid who worshipped evil, Caneval white trash kid I mean that's Maybe that would be a fucking movie That would be a movie man That'd be a fucking movie man I worked with his son I worked with Robbie Caneval Yeah During the Fear Factor days Oh really Yeah he did something On Fear Factor Yeah it was cool He's a nice guy But you know I was like damn dude Your dad was a fucking psycho Yeah shit that that guy subjected his body to It's crazy And when you watch that shit And you watch the Philadelphia Flyers That time in the 70s It was fucking mental.

[1049] It was mental.

[1050] You're just a little kid watching Evil Knievel and listening to Alice Cooper and watching hockey fights and that determines who you become.

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] Evil Knievel was just, I mean, there's a, I think it was a Rolling Stone piece of his body where they showed all of his x -rays and all of the bone breaks and steel rods that were in various bones that were screwed together.

[1053] I'm like, fuck, man. What kind of pain was this guy in?

[1054] I don't know.

[1055] I mean, did you see the, there's a fair.

[1056] really new documentary.

[1057] I think it's called Being Caneval.

[1058] I think it's amazing.

[1059] Well, it's maybe a couple years old actually, but yeah, just any one of those crashes.

[1060] I think this is a famous one in London and he jumps over the double -decker buses and you can see him land and the bike looks like it's made out of rubber and he looks like he's made out of rubber and he looks like every bone in his body just broke.

[1061] And that's going to do it again and do it again.

[1062] Oh, God.

[1063] I mean, that was his thing.

[1064] Imagine that being your thing.

[1065] Your thing is you fly through the air on something that's supposed to stay on the ground.

[1066] A full -size Harley that's not made for jumping or doing anything.

[1067] At all.

[1068] Or landing, for that manner.

[1069] Doesn't have any particularly like bouncy shocks or anything?

[1070] It's just hitting like, boom, kadunk.

[1071] And just, oh my God.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] It's, it's a weird thing to be that guy because there was, I mean, there was some people in the past that had done some pretty interesting shit and their lives but he was doing it consistently with an engine that was like the thing about him it's like and he was like one of the most famous people in america yeah with like like an american flag suit yeah it's like the fawns and evil can evil you know there you're being caneval you got to see that if you haven't seen wow it's amazing wow yeah what a crazy and there's stuff in there that kind of blew my mind because we all remember the snake river canyon thing yes but they were showing how out of control it was with the people that showed up and were so drunk and the crowds were fighting and crazy just on their own it's mental like just what was going on around the event that's one of those things you can't really do today the same way like if someone jumps over things today it's like so many people are jumping like you're not going to get famous that way because like you think about the just the bananas shit those BMX guys do They're flipping three times in the air.

[1074] It's commonplace, almost.

[1075] No, watching Evil Knie was like watching the original King Kong with your kids.

[1076] Right, right.

[1077] Like, oh, that was a big deal once?

[1078] He jumped seven buses.

[1079] Whatever, I did it on my bike.

[1080] Yeah, that would be a great film.

[1081] I don't know what you have to do now.

[1082] Catch bullets with your bare hands or something.

[1083] Like, for people, go, that guy's rad, bullet man. You know.

[1084] Well, now there's people doing parkour and climbing buildings with no ropes.

[1085] It's like, you ever watch that kid, Alex Honnold?

[1086] do you know who he is no he's the free solo guy oh the free solo guy yeah oh i still haven't seen that yet but he's so nice and so normal when you talk to him i've had him on the podcast a couple of times and i'm like how are you the guy that's wanting to climb the face of these fucking cliffs and some of them they're they're not straight up and down they're leaning backwards they're holding on by a finger has got like hands wedged in these crack look at that picture yeah that's man that doesn't make you shit your pants and he's getting older and he's starting to get injured now too.

[1087] Oh.

[1088] And, you know, he's, for the first time in his life, he's had, you know, for a long time.

[1089] He had no injuries, no problems and he's, you know, he's been doing this a long time now.

[1090] His body's not holding up the way it used to.

[1091] When do you retire?

[1092] Like, when are you, Mohammed Ali?

[1093] You retire when the, you can evil and you know it's done this stuff.

[1094] And the finger slips, son.

[1095] Yeah.

[1096] That's when you retire.

[1097] I mean, that's what all of the people that have done it before him think.

[1098] They think, look, this is going to end badly.

[1099] Yeah.

[1100] You know, it's crazy to be known as the guy who's doing something that scares the fuck out of everybody.

[1101] Yeah.

[1102] You're the guy that everybody's watching to eventually fall.

[1103] Look at that.

[1104] Like, look at the angle.

[1105] Yeah, that doesn't even seem possible.

[1106] Well, he's incredibly strong.

[1107] His hands, like, he's a slender, thin guy, but he has gorilla hands.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] The fat -ass fingers.

[1110] And he just can shove them into these cracks and hang on in place.

[1111] He was telling me a story about how he was free solo climbing.

[1112] one mountain when he realized you know like fucking 300 feet up that he forgot his powder so he's got no chalk so he's you know things are getting slippery he's climbing and he finds these guys that are connected to ropes halfway up and he says hey I don't have any powder can I borrow your chalk so the guy gives him his chalk bag he makes it all the way to the top and leaves the chalk bag at the top for the guy it's like what if those guys are like that guy doesn't have any ropes as he's going by No robes or chalk.

[1113] He doesn't have any fucking chalk.

[1114] Like, you know, like, if you ever lifted weights, like, with that bar gets slippery, it sucks.

[1115] Like, you need chalk to grip things right so you can really get a hold of stuff.

[1116] But that's just weights.

[1117] You could put the weights down.

[1118] The worst fall is going to be three feet to the floor.

[1119] Oh, fuck.

[1120] I can't, I can't even watch his stuff.

[1121] I'm, like, my hands are sweating right now thinking about it.

[1122] I haven't watched that, but I got to, and everyone's always talking about it.

[1123] No, it's an amazing documentary.

[1124] but he's just a fascinating guy because it doesn't make sense.

[1125] He's not like some Stevo type guy who's just a maniac and just like always trying to freak people out and do the next thing.

[1126] Like, no, he's a real.

[1127] I'm putting a rocket on a sharpen cart.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] Crash him into a brick wall.

[1130] Exactly.

[1131] Like when Steveo comes up with ideas, like he'll tell him to me. I'm like, don't do that.

[1132] Don't do that, man. You know, like, stop doing that.

[1133] But I get it.

[1134] That's who he is.

[1135] He's a legitimate bona fide maniac.

[1136] Alex Honol guy's so calm and peaceful.

[1137] You know, and he said, like, he's like, well, you know, I'm pretty mellow.

[1138] You know, it's like when the whole thing is pretty mellow.

[1139] It's like, when things go wrong, that's when it's not mellow.

[1140] I'm like, oh, God.

[1141] Yeah, that's kind of how everything is.

[1142] So do you see things like that, like current event stuff or like a person like him and think, hmm, is that a movie?

[1143] Is there a movie in that?

[1144] like sometimes I see things I'm trying to think the last time I thought that and I'm always late like you'll go oh I just saw that oh it's already in production I'm never ahead of the curve enough to be on top of it's a bummer you know yeah but no there's all kinds of things like that that I would love to do but it's like it just I don't know it's time sometimes I just I've like I said I told you two projects that took so much of my life I mean I sat there and watched the because the whole Flyers movie ended with them winning the cup the first time and I watched that series I got all the games with all the original commercials which were incredible commercials is Salvador dolly selling house paint like weird shit and I had the whole series like memorized I could have called a commentary on it I watched thousands of hours of watching this hockey because I was like if I'm going to make this movie I'm going to be the number one Phillies expert on everything I don't want anyone to say anything.

[1145] I'm like, oh, gee, I don't know.

[1146] Now, I can't remember anything.

[1147] And then it was all for nothing.

[1148] Oh.

[1149] But that's what things are anyway, though.

[1150] So you had invested too much.

[1151] Yeah, but you kind of had to because it's like I figured with a topic like that, they have such, the fans are, I mean, they're like that.

[1152] They're like gods in Philadelphia.

[1153] I mean, the best thing about this, just think of this as a movie.

[1154] Okay, just this one scene.

[1155] when they introduced the team in philly i think it was in 1967 they had a parade to introduce them because hockey was coming to town they said they had a parade with the players and it was like maybe no one there to watch the parade and even one of the guys goes all i remember is a guy leaning on the lamppost giving me the finger as the parade went by and then when they won the Stanley cup they had a parade two million people showed up in the streets of philadelphia and the footage of that if you can find it while you're over there the entire you know like a hundred thousand people show up for the Lakers and everyone was crazy.

[1156] Two million people is four woodstocks.

[1157] In the streets.

[1158] In the streets of Philadelphia to watch a team drive by in the back of like, you know, convertibles and they're all, they all look like porn stars because they're on fur coats and big moustaches and big afros.

[1159] They're amazing.

[1160] It's like, you're just the, and that was such a short period of time.

[1161] That was maybe like seven years from go fuck yourself to like you guys are Philadelphia.

[1162] Wow.

[1163] And it was all during that time period of like, you know, when they made Rocky, so Philadelphia was like the shithole of America you know and then every sports team was bad and the the real life story just reads like fiction I mean holy shit look at all those and that was the entire parade road people were hanging out of buildings it was just it was it was oh that's when they won the game it was just incredible wow well growing up in Boston um believe it or not I wasn't a hockey fan oh my guy I love I worshiped the Bruins I didn't I was just in a martial arts and I didn't even like sports.

[1164] I just was, I found out about martial arts, really the school that I wanted to because I was coming home from a Red Sox game.

[1165] I was in a baseball at the time.

[1166] And I went up to this gym and this martial arts, this Taekwondo school.

[1167] And I happened to be going there right when this guy, his name was John Lee, was practicing.

[1168] And he was a national heavy, and light heavyweight champion at the time.

[1169] And just is incredible.

[1170] And I got to see him hit this bag.

[1171] And I remember thinking, I can't believe someone can do that.

[1172] Yeah.

[1173] Like he, he, hit it so hard.

[1174] He was kicking this bag.

[1175] And I was like, fuck, I want to learn how to do that.

[1176] What year was that?

[1177] This was 19, I was 15, 14, 15, so 81, 82, somewhere around there.

[1178] Okay.

[1179] And when I was 19 years old, so I really wasn't paying attention at all to sports, I was balls into martial arts.

[1180] But I was working at the Boston Athletic Club.

[1181] And Bobby Orr, who was long retired, used to come there to work out.

[1182] Oh, yeah.

[1183] And he had had so many knee surgeries that I used to have to help him.

[1184] I mean, everybody was like, holy shit, it's Bobby Orr.

[1185] Bobior's here.

[1186] Bobby Orr, it's fucking Bobby Orr.

[1187] I kind of knew he was Bobby Or, but it didn't, it wasn't like I was meeting Bruce Lee or something.

[1188] Like, I was meeting Bruce Lee.

[1189] I probably would have fainted.

[1190] But it was this hockey player guy.

[1191] And I used to have to help him to get on the Versa climber.

[1192] You know what a Versa climber is?

[1193] No. There's one of them out there in the gym.

[1194] You climb on it.

[1195] It's an amazing cardio machine, but you put your feet in these things.

[1196] It was in Rocky.

[1197] Like Drago.

[1198] Oh, yeah, he's in Russia.

[1199] Yeah, Drago was working on it.

[1200] But Bobby wanted to get on this thing, so I used to have to help him because he couldn't bend his knees.

[1201] His knees, like the range of motion, like here's a leg, here's a normal range of motion, right?

[1202] His knees would go like this.

[1203] They wouldn't lock all the way out.

[1204] They would bend slightly, and they would move from this bent slightly to this.

[1205] That's all he had.

[1206] That's crazy.

[1207] a little bit of bend in his knees that's it yeah he would play racquetball and he would just fall over so he like he'd play racquet but the ball was over here he would just tip and fall over over it was like he was on these legs that weren't legs it was like he was on sticks they just didn't work you know and i remember seeing the scars up and down the sides of his legs yeah i remember seeing those as a kid like that you'd see pictures i followed the brun so i was always into Bobby Orr and yeah he probably always was back on the ice too soon another injury stitch him up rip moat yeah they didn't know how to fix things back then either and he's so incredible Bobby Orr was like at that time like if young Brad Pitt was the greatest hockey player of all time I mean he didn't even seem real right you know he's like the golden boy and I don't keep him making you pull up hockey clips but like you see some clips and it's like the way he's skating compared to everyone else it's like did everyone else just learn that day like he's just skating around him like they don't even exist it's just like and as a kid you're like this is the greatest person alive well that's probably evil can evil also why he blew his knees out right because he was just it was taking these crazy risks and moving so fast probably yeah I mean he was just and people are probably trying to take him out left and right too yeah I mean he would and well the thing with him too he was a defenseman not a forward so he would play like a forward but he would be a defenseman so he's supposed to be the tough guy defending the goalie yet he's like a leading score so he was sort of too good for everything so he's like yeah so he's taking all the hits and scoring all the goals he was such a nice guy I remember thinking that too when I was a kid I always used to be intimidated by people who are really nice guys I was like how is he so nice because I was kind of a prick because it was driving me crazy like that he was so I felt inferior I was like God I wish I was that nice you know Yeah, every, I get, I know, I was mean.

[1208] I was a mean kid because I was fighting and I was like, the way to fight is to be mean.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] Like, you want to get good at fighting?

[1211] You got to be fucking mean.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] By then, I'm five years into fighting and that's all I want to do.

[1214] And so I'm around this guy.

[1215] I feel like, God, he's so, he's so nice and he's like the greatest hockey player of all time.

[1216] Like, fuck.

[1217] I'm such a loser.

[1218] Yeah, I remember, it's funny.

[1219] I remember in high school, the kids that would always be in the fights and kick everyone's ass, you're like, you can't compete with that.

[1220] he's just born crazy he likes to fight if you punch him in the face it'll probably make him happy after he smashes your head into the sink and you know kills you it's just like it's just yeah it's a different way people well i never got into i wasn't really a street fight person at all i was scared of it that's how i got into martial arts because i was scared of fighting but the the difference between people that were like a bobby or or a regular player always fascinated me i was like how is one guy Michael Jordan, right?

[1221] How is one guy?

[1222] How's one guy, you know, Reggie Jackson?

[1223] What is he doing different?

[1224] How does this guy rise above everybody else?

[1225] They're just special because I would read about him and be like, you know, they knew he was good when he was a kid.

[1226] They'd be like, come watch this eight -year -old out skating people.

[1227] Like he was, I think, I forget, I'm not a Bobby Hore expert, I can't remember things, but I remember that like, you know, being scouted at 14, like he was an adult.

[1228] He was so good.

[1229] But that's what you have to be, I guess.

[1230] You know, I mean, there are just some kids.

[1231] I mean, we all remember kids from high school that's like, why are you?

[1232] Right.

[1233] You're like a professional athlete and we're like stupid kids.

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] Like, you know.

[1236] Right.

[1237] Like, why are you shredded?

[1238] And we're just like dopey kids.

[1239] Like, what's going on here?

[1240] Well, kind of musicians too, right?

[1241] Remember when Prince first came out?

[1242] Wasn't he like 19 when he came out with I want to be your lover?

[1243] Yeah.

[1244] Some people are just special.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] They're just Mozart, but in fighting or hockey.

[1247] It's so humbling.

[1248] Well, that's where it goes.

[1249] back to the thing we said like an hour ago fooled them again because like those guys are actually special well there's always going to be people like that right they just put it all in a perspective for you and make you realize like wow just okay I'm a regular person it's fun watching people like that but yeah but then there's people like that sometimes that they just self -destruct because they don't care that they're good right you know and I remember people like that too and they do nothing with it that's true too you know which is weird yeah there's sometimes people can be too talented where things come too easy.

[1250] It doesn't mean anything.

[1251] There's a thing like, you know, when you were talking about earlier, about being bullied, like maybe if we get rid of bullying, we're going to get rid of a certain amount of success, too.

[1252] I mean, it's not like I don't want anybody to hurt their feelings, but I understand that there's something that comes out of that, right?

[1253] Well, there's something that comes out of it being really hard for you to do.

[1254] Like, when you figure out how to do it, you've developed this indomitable spirit because you've managed to make your way through the hardest levels of the game to get to the top.

[1255] It's not like you were just faster than everybody.

[1256] You have bigger muscles and your fucking heads thicker or something.

[1257] Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can't be like pro -bullying because that's weird.

[1258] But there is something to it because like real life just bullies you anyway.

[1259] There's something to adversity.

[1260] Like you have to be able to like, like when people, like whenever someone says like, what's your advice for like, you know, doing this, like being in show business or something?

[1261] I go, if being told by complete strangers that you suck all day long does not bother you in any way, you know, then maybe it's the business for you, you know?

[1262] But maybe it's not because I think it bothers everybody who wants to do well.

[1263] But there's a difference between bothering like, oh, that's a drag or like, I quit.

[1264] Right.

[1265] Because there's always, this is funny, whenever someone comes to me and they say, like, hey, I wrote this short story, be brutally honest.

[1266] I mean, brutally honest.

[1267] That person's, like, secretly saying, please say something nice about this.

[1268] Of course.

[1269] Yeah.

[1270] Come watch my show and be brutal.

[1271] Brutely honest, you're hideous to look at and you're the least talented person I've seen in my life.

[1272] That's such a request.

[1273] Like, I've had people ask me to read their scripts.

[1274] I'm like, hey, bro, you're asking me for an hour and a half of my time.

[1275] Yeah.

[1276] I don't even know you.

[1277] Do you know how valuable an hour and a half is?

[1278] I have children and three jobs and a lot of hobbies.

[1279] I don't have an hour and a half to watch a movie.

[1280] I don't even want to read a script when my agent sends it over.

[1281] I don't want to read yours.

[1282] I mean, it's a lot of time suck.

[1283] If I can just get this Rob Zombie, if I could just get this Rob Zombie, he can make it, then it all work out.

[1284] It's so funny.

[1285] The people that always make it never talk about themselves.

[1286] No. People that can't tell you about their great idea.

[1287] It's very rare.

[1288] It's very rare.

[1289] It's very rare that that idea is actually great.

[1290] Yeah.

[1291] It's like there's certain qualities that someone has to have to make something that's truly exceptional.

[1292] And very rarely do they want to tell you that it's truly exceptional.

[1293] Yeah.

[1294] I mean, it's weird.

[1295] Like, maybe it's the insecurity thing that you don't want to tell anybody what you do because you never think it's good enough as opposed to people that are not good enough and they always want to tell you about themselves.

[1296] Right.

[1297] Yeah, that's a problem.

[1298] The wrong people are talking about themselves.

[1299] Well, it's like it's human psychology, but I think the thing about, like I was saying about Richard Jenny would say that looking at shitty comics is what inspires people to do comedy.

[1300] We learn from all of the psychological disasters, all the people that think, like all the guys that think they're better looking than they are you know what I mean like then they walk up to a girl and the girl's like what the fuck are you talking on get out of here like there's something there's something to be learned from that like you know I had a friend growing up that would swing at every pitch this guy would go up to every girl and he didn't he wasn't a particularly good looking guy he wasn't smart he wasn't funny he but he was bold yeah and you know he and I would learn from him like girls would be angry at him like angry that he had the balls to ask them out and then they probably would go right because they're very few he got very few so his strategy just didn't work it didn't work at all i thought that to find girls with something wrong with them like there's something wrong with that they have a screw loose i thought the end of that story was going to be his boldness paid off no no he's just dating paraplegic he became an alcoholic his fucking life is a disaster you know i've lost touch with him 15 20 years ago that's funny he's out of his fucking mind but i remember when we were kids i'd be like Jesus Christ, because I One of the things about getting the show business that helped me is I was always super insecure to talk to girls but then when you would I would do stand up, you would do work at clubs and you'd be the guy on stage making people laugh like they wanted to talk to you like you actually want to talk to me this is crazy.

[1301] You know, I couldn't believe it but that guy would just fucking anybody like look at that hot bartender, I'm going every flight attendant on this flight Just buy cocktails and take chances and ask for phone numbers But you can learn from people that fuck everything up Yeah, you can't You can learn from everything, man But I have this theory that nobody can learn from other people's mistakes Really?

[1302] It's a very it's the, maybe it's just the way you think and I think But it's the rare person who learns from other people's mistakes Yeah, it's rare, but it's possible Because I always think like heroin Right Didn't Lou Reed Finish that one for everybody we're still going to give it a go because it's different when you do heroin or just anything.

[1303] I mean, I never know anyone that learns from anyone's mistakes because even if you're in the business and you go, look, here's my piece of it.

[1304] Don't spend that money on that because it's the only you're going to see, put it away, do this because that's an advance, that's not coming every month.

[1305] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1306] And then, you know, two minutes later they're broke.

[1307] Right.

[1308] You know, it's like, I don't give people advice because they don't want to hear it.

[1309] I don't care.

[1310] Be broke, I don't care.

[1311] The people who really want advice and they're going to use it that's like one out of a hundred but they do exist yeah but it's rare yeah and those are the people that are smart and they're like aha yeah i try to learn as much as i can from other people's mistakes but they don't feel as bad as they feel to those people that's part of the problem is like mistakes have to hurt too yeah have to fucking hurt man like bombing like bombing on stage is like sucking a thousand dicks in front of your mother it hurts so bad that you learn And you're like, okay, I am going to figure this out.

[1312] I'm never having that happen again.

[1313] I got to get better.

[1314] That must be so bad.

[1315] I mean, I can relate to it because, you know, I've done a different sort of bombing in front of people on stage.

[1316] But you can't really learn from other people bombing.

[1317] I think you kind of, that's one of those things you kind of got to do yourself.

[1318] How long does it take, because I'm always fascinated by it, how long do you feel it takes?

[1319] I mean, this is not really a question, I guess you can answer, but until you find your voice and you go, okay, this is me. I'm this guy I'm not I'm not Richard Pryor I'm not Jerry Seinfeld It depends on how much time Maybe never find it I guess but a lot of people never find it There's impossible comics Whereas like you see them and you go Oh my God This poor bastard He's trying to do something That he's never going to be able to do There's people that just They're never going to be able to do it For whatever reason Whatever Whatever psychological Ingredients that they have It's not enough to make chocolate cake Like you don't have any eggs You know what I mean?

[1320] Flower?

[1321] Yeah.

[1322] You're fucked.

[1323] Yeah.

[1324] I know, yeah.

[1325] But then there's other people that their ego protects them where they, they believe that they did well when they didn't do well.

[1326] They're delusional.

[1327] And that's the worst thing because they're trying to protect themselves from the bad feeling.

[1328] But they don't understand the bad feeling is your friend because that's, it sucks hard.

[1329] But that's the fucking medicine.

[1330] That's, that's, that's, you take that medicine and you've got to go, okay, okay, okay.

[1331] What did I do wrong?

[1332] This is what I did wrong.

[1333] I've got to not do that again.

[1334] And you've got to put more time and focus and effort.

[1335] It's really dependent almost entirely on how much you do that objectively and your focus, like how you can look at it.

[1336] Some people just don't ever want to, no matter what they're doing, whether they're painting or making comic books, they don't want to ever look at it the way other people look at it.

[1337] They want to think that everything they do is amazing, you know?

[1338] That's true.

[1339] My kids will show me something and sometimes it'll be funny.

[1340] Like, you know, my daughter will make something on an iPad.

[1341] sometimes it'll be funny and sometimes it's like look you gotta edit this there's too much shit going on this is boring but they think it's great why because they're she's fucking nine okay but when you're 28 and you think everything you do is amazing it's like okay but do you think that's worse now because of things like instagram oh for sure where everybody puts up anything and you want to go you look like an idiot but their friends like you are so hot or something you know like everyone's can they can feed their delusions.

[1342] That's certainly, but you also could take the sting of criticism and you get it from way more people than you've ever have before.

[1343] Like if you're someone who puts something up on Instagram and you think it's funny and then the people come at you hard, like, whoa.

[1344] Like you might, you know, if you're a comic and you've been doing stand up for five years, you're never going to work in front of, not in normal circumstances, you're never going to work in front of 5 ,000 people.

[1345] But you might get 5 ,000 people saying you suck if you put something up on Instagram.

[1346] That's true.

[1347] you know yeah i mean you can tell when i mean i'm sure you can tell when somebody's funny almost instantly you can tell but some people surprise you like some people in the beginning like wow this guy's got it rough but then one day they it just clicks and they just keep working at it and but it's a matter of whether or not they're willing to put the building blocks in the right place and whether or not they're going to admit that the structure that they have currently is not viable right and some people aren't but some people are it's like it doesn't and also it's it's just like movies right it's like everybody's got a different style you know your films are your kind of films whereas like there's other people that are doing like these really simple sweet you know chick flicks and that's for them that's what they like and there's people that find that and they think it's amazing it's so good it's like you've got to find whatever the fuck it is that you do that you would like to see yeah because that's hot that's the only way you can judge it yeah i mean i do what i do because that's what i like so what i'm doing i go okay but if i was trying to do something else that i didn't get i'm like what do i judge it against like what you're telling me is good then i'm lost well you'd be like the executive asking you get howard's turn the movie like they don't know why they want him in the movie they just know he's famous like oh he's a movie just came out get him let's get Howard and that's what happened when when I was doing the Halloween movies a lot because they'd weigh in so often that it can start messing with you because you don't know which end is up because you just want to go, Jesus Christ, can I just fucking focus for five seconds before you send her another 18 pages of weird notes that I was fucking with me and you really don't know which end is up anymore.

[1348] God, I've been there.

[1349] I've never been there for a film but I've been there on TV shows.

[1350] It's a drag.

[1351] It's very confusing because you don't know anymore because you're so spun out from too much information.

[1352] because most of the time and that's why I'll defend like a filmmaker like Ed Wood and why people still talk about Plan 9 from outer space because yes, technically it's inept but there's something so specific about this guy's bizarre vision that you're still talking about it and that someone like Tim Burton makes a movie about it or is this a million far superior made films from back then that nobody gives a shit about it it's just like there's something about keeping that weird bizarro vision alive and not having the committee ruin it yeah if enough people know that it's going to be an edwood movie they're going to go see it there's enough people that find out about they're like yeah this guy's just weird shit yeah and you're like how did he make a movie more entertaining in six days with like three hundred dollars and you made with two hundred million dollars well especially in the after the test the taste of time because if you look back at it now i mean people will gather around and watch it, especially after the Johnny Depp movie.

[1353] Yeah.

[1354] Because Johnny Depp was such a weird Ed Wood.

[1355] So great in that.

[1356] So great.

[1357] There's such a fucking strange character for him.

[1358] I think Ed Wood and like Young Frankenstein had two times were like, that's like the perfect comedy.

[1359] They're just such perfect films.

[1360] Ed Wood is so weird.

[1361] The Johnny Depp version of him is like what kind of character are you?

[1362] I know.

[1363] Yeah.

[1364] I remember right when it came out, no, it was right it was right when Martin Lando got nominated for an Oscar.

[1365] I ran into him in a newsstand.

[1366] and I never go up to people because I don't want to bother anybody but I couldn't resist and it was like one of those cases where he was so nice that of like oh my God which was great but he was great and he seemed so shocked that like some young weird dude was like so excited to meet Martin Landau because you know he's pretty old and yeah that's cool when a movie like that sort of reignites people's appreciation for someone too because I always liked him yeah I mean because I was like a space 1999 dork and stuff back of the day is there ever a guy that you like you are such a big fan of as an actor that you would kind of try to, like, make a movie around them?

[1367] Probably.

[1368] I mean, the sad part is so many of the people that I love are gone.

[1369] You know, like, I've tried to put a lot of people I really loved in all my movies.

[1370] A lot of, like, just weird character actors from the 70s that you'd see in, like, Clintieswood movies and stuff.

[1371] But, like, Jeffrey Lewis, you know, who's in, like, you know, his sidekick in every which way, but Lewis and is in high plains drifter.

[1372] You know, Juliet, Lewis's dad.

[1373] Jeffrey Lewis.

[1374] Oh, yeah.

[1375] And he was like the greatest.

[1376] I worked with him twice.

[1377] And he would have, he told me the funniest story once.

[1378] He goes, this is what I learned from, I can't imitate him, but this is what I learned from working with Clint.

[1379] Whenever I was in the scene with Clint, I'd make sure I put my hand on his shoulder.

[1380] That way, I knew he couldn't cut me out of the scene.

[1381] He had all kinds of, but he was, he was an amazing guy.

[1382] I remember when I did this animated movie with Tom Papa called The Haunted World of El Super Beast, and Jeffrey Lewis was in.

[1383] He had just come from boxing.

[1384] point he was in his 70s but he was like little but he was like he had that eastwood body where he's still like ripped you know Clint Eastwood you don't think him is like but then he has that charles bronson body back then where he was boxing in the 70s yeah he came back and he was like don't be fooled i can still kick your ass oh yeah i'm sure you can okay man relax he's a hilarious guy you know the movie that i fucking loved that it hardly gets talked about anymore is bad lieutenant yeah harvey kytel you don't hear from harvey kytel anymore more for whatever reason.

[1385] Well, I think, is he in the new thing that Irishman, the Scorsese thing?

[1386] I don't know.

[1387] He seems like he should be.

[1388] That fucking guy has depth.

[1389] He's amazing.

[1390] When he gets, there's scenes in movies when he gets angry, you're like, Jesus Christ, like this, this is real.

[1391] Like, he's hit this weird place where he might murder the person he's in the film.

[1392] I know.

[1393] He's, I always wonder what, this, I've heard different weird stories of why, because he was in eyes wide shut.

[1394] Right.

[1395] And Kubrick filmed him for a long time and then replaced him with Sidney Pollock.

[1396] Why?

[1397] I don't know.

[1398] But I would always hear these different weird, like that weird, that there was weird shit that he did.

[1399] And I don't know if any of it's true, so I don't repeat it, but I always wonder, because he's so great.

[1400] Yeah.

[1401] But to shoot for six weeks or two months and then be replaced, it was such a weird thing.

[1402] Well, he's, his scenes, there's something about him, like Pulp Fiction.

[1403] He's so authentic.

[1404] Like, you believe he's the cleaner.

[1405] You know, like he's so great.

[1406] as like sport and like you know taxi driver yes i think that might be the first thing i saw him in so i was he just seemed so authentically sleazy i used to have a um bad lieutenant poster what the fuck happened to it but somewhere along my travels moving from place to place i lost it but i remember that fucking movie was so crazy because it was like a bad cop like he was a movie really bad cop really bad over the top bad but probably fairly fairly realistic probably unfortunately did you ever see the documentary the seven five no it's a great documentary about corrupt cops in new york oh really yeah and uh michael dowd who was uh one of the guys who was one of those corrupt cops one up going to jail and now he's out and you know i had him on the podcast we talked about it and the it's fucking all of it is true all of it's documented and all of it's insane what year was that all happening was that like i was the 70s right what year was i always assume corruption happened in the 70s.

[1407] It's a lot of it.

[1408] Like he was showing up at the precinct with a fucking Corvette.

[1409] Like, what is going on here, man?

[1410] They were knocking over.

[1411] 80s and 90s.

[1412] Oh, it was.

[1413] Oh, really?

[1414] Oh, wow.

[1415] I just assumed it was a surpo time period.

[1416] Yeah, but he's out now, man. And it's just one of those stories that's so fucking crazy.

[1417] Just, you know, knocking over drugs, hits out on him.

[1418] And they were putting hits on other people.

[1419] It's like, whew.

[1420] it's it's just maniacal was that in new york yeah yeah yeah it's like the wild west but he talks about like first day on the job being exposed to corruption like they threw some guy out of a fucking balcony and he's like you know like like this guy jumped right and he's like oh okay i think i forget what the exact story was but some ridiculous shit like that where they were he was i mean it's like it was corrupt long before he got there yeah he just sort of stepped into the the mess of it you know it's Like what you're talking about, like, your early days in New York City, like, seeing that guy get beat to death by a cop, like, that was kind of how police had total autonomy.

[1421] They, I mean, they had so much power and authority back then.

[1422] Yeah, it was crazy.

[1423] I remember another incident.

[1424] This was right before I left that, I think I started talking about this, but I didn't finish.

[1425] It was like they had Tompkins Square Park, and they were trying to, that's when it was, that area was getting gentrified.

[1426] That was the big word.

[1427] And there was like kind of a riot.

[1428] There was all the people protesting the gentrification of the lower.

[1429] side.

[1430] This was probably like, I don't know, fuck, I forget, maybe early 90s, late 80s.

[1431] And the cops showed up on horseback.

[1432] And I was, I was, I had just walked out to go to the deli.

[1433] I didn't even know this was happening.

[1434] I just walked right into the middle of like, what's going on here?

[1435] And then the cops just started racing through the crowd and I just started running.

[1436] And I saw a friend of mine, he, he died now.

[1437] He was as a singer of this punk rock band and Reagan youth.

[1438] And I saw this cop just jump on him and start pounding on him.

[1439] So bad, he had really long dreadlocks.

[1440] The next time I saw him, his head was shaved and it was all stitched up because he just had so much damage to his head.

[1441] He had been in like a coma or something.

[1442] And then it was a big scandal.

[1443] You could probably find this easy because the cops all put black tape on their badge numbers so that no one could tell who was who while they did all this shit.

[1444] And it was like on the front cover of the New York Post, a picture of like a, I think the post, the badge with the black tape.

[1445] that shit was wild back then see if you can find well the the Chicago elections and the riots during the 1960s was like a turning point in Hunter S. Thompson's life because he was there and he watched these cops just beat the fuck out of people and he said that he saw far worse beatings by the Chicago police than he ever saw for the hell's angels because you know his first book was that the hell's angels book so he was around those guys for year watching them get into biker brawls and shit he's like this fucking paled it paled i mean it's yeah but uh it's crazy too but sometimes i being a cop must be a crazy job horrific because i can't imagine i mean doesn't justify any of this stuff we're talking about but i can't imagine how you couldn't go crazy in that job right you see every day and what you most of them i think have PTSD and they don't it does it's not addressed most people have disdain for them almost everybody they meets a liar yeah because you meet me and a guy like i didn't know how fast i was going oh this is my house oh i just can't find my keys like everyone's lying to you and you're the enemy you are a professional enemy and you're an enemy outfit right for all these criminals you're the enemy it's a terrible way to live yeah we need them badly right it's and it's and it's i don't know you can't win on that job i don't think no no you can't and it's and people don't you don't get paid enough people don't respect you they don't appreciate you you know i don't want you around no they want you around yes and then you're not there fast enough exactly and then you suck yeah yeah it's uh i mean and cop movies that's what's crazy is like cop movies people love people love cop movies and the cops are the good guys yeah it's so strange you know but like their interactions with humans in real life like boy if people treated them the way they think about them in the movies it would be a wonderful time to be a cop it's weird though because i remember that time period in new york like so like i have a different relationship now when i see cops but um but as a as like a bum kid at 19 like i remember walking down the street and the cop would cruise alongside rolled down the window and they'd start taunting me saying shit like you know because bullies and we're cops but they're just like waiting for you to say something back right and i was like wow this weird you know i was just walking down the street i wasn't you know even jay walking down the street now whenever a cop comes up to me like oh no what's happening he'd be like dude i saw you in slayer it was fucking awesome oh like that's weird yeah it's got to be super strange yeah i mean they're more accountable now than ever before i think that's one of the great things about body cameras and cell phones cops are you know you just can't rock it that way before but i don't think they get enough counseling and i don't think they get enough money and i don't think that's i don't think it's a stringent enough screening process i think there's a lot of people that are they're you know they're powerless twats when they're young and they want oh i just wish everybody's gonna fucking pay if i could be a cop and they become a cop for all the wrong reasons and then they're the ones that give the good cops a bad name and if you think about the amount of interactions that people have with police and this is what perspective is so important there are fucking 320 million people in this country and cops have millions and millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of interactions with people all the time but how many of those interactions are positive the vast majority of them are not police brutality the vast majority of them are not shooting someone and planting a weapon on them or planting drugs on them of course the vast majority of them are cops doing a really hard job and doing their best but nobody gives a fuck about that you only care when the cops go bad you know and you know it's just perspective which uh You know, nobody has.

[1446] No, nobody does.

[1447] That's too nuanced of a conversation with the world now.

[1448] It is.

[1449] There's no perspective on anything.

[1450] Well, listen, man, I appreciate you coming in here, and your film is out tonight.

[1451] Tonight.

[1452] Three from hell.

[1453] Three from hell.

[1454] Tonight.

[1455] And everywhere.

[1456] Well, somebody will tell me they couldn't find it, but it's trying to be everywhere.

[1457] So, and then when will it be available?

[1458] Like, if someone wants to get it off Apple TV or Amazon.

[1459] I don't know exactly.

[1460] I mean, it's a three -night fathom of it.

[1461] event and then it'll be in theaters here and there and then it'll be out probably october will be most accessible for people okay i should have brought that information no worries thanks man they'd be professional here brother thanks for having me man thank you rob zombie ladies and gentlemen