S13 E9: [Sage] The Hinge Hustler

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes discuss topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] If you're in need of support, please visit Something Was Wrong .com slash resources for a list of non -profit organizations that can help.

[13] I'm not a therapist or a doctor.

[14] Most names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent my views.

[16] Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] Hey friends, before we jump into today's episode, I wanted to share a few quick updates with you.

[19] Going forward, all of our content warnings and resources for each story will be listed in the individual stories notes section.

[20] So on Apple podcast, for example, if you want to see the episode notes, you click on the episode and then you swipe up.

[21] And it'll say like content wording for this episode and then it'll also list any helpful resources or non -profits that specifically have to do with that week's story.

[22] Shout out to the something was wrong internal team for their hard work on our resources page, which has been updated with all of this fantastic free information, non -profit resources, legal resources, marginalized.

[23] community resources, it's fantastic.

[24] So if you are looking for support, please check out something was wrong .com slash resources to view the newly updated library of support.

[25] For more resources and podcast updates, you can also follow us on Instagram at something was wrong podcast.

[26] If you want to submit your story, the best way to do that is to go to our website.

[27] something was wrong .com slash submissions.

[28] Thank you so, so much.

[29] After you met his brother and his girlfriend and you had that strange feeling and that strange interaction, did you talk to him about it?

[30] I had asked him even if they had liked me or what that was, how his relationship was with his brother.

[31] I think he knew I knew something was wrong.

[32] because he started saying, oh, no, I think they like you.

[33] It's just my brothers and I relationship is really iffy.

[34] We disagree.

[35] He took my dad's side in the divorce, and I took my mom's side, and he gets along more with my stepmom than I do because my stepmom doesn't like me because I don't like her like pet snake.

[36] And I was like, okay, well, we're worried.

[37] And he's like, we're working on a relationship.

[38] He was the one that did everything right.

[39] He was the straight -A student.

[40] I was more of like the kid that slubbed up.

[41] My brother is this like super smart guy, went to the top schools, has engineering type mind to him.

[42] And then there's me who's like the nine to five basic guy.

[43] I was never as good in football as he was.

[44] So he pitted his brother against him.

[45] It was another sob story, which victim services is like, Yep, that was another one to make you want to wrap them up in like a big hug and be like, oh, it's okay.

[46] He used sob stories to make me more protective and, I guess, endearing towards him.

[47] He just wanted me to be completely loyal and at his defense if anything came up.

[48] And, of course, I never knew Lee's side of the story to this.

[49] It was more of another big sob story, and I was like, oh, he comes from this extremely broken family.

[50] I tried talking to Della, Austin, and Ethan, who all come from divorced families about it.

[51] And all of them were like, the way he described it to me, they told me seems a little too dramatic, almost.

[52] But I was like, no, it can't be too dramatic because he, again, is showing like no emotion, no emotion at all.

[53] And it was, again, just rolling off his tongue.

[54] If he said it a million times, I was like, okay, Della especially was someone I should have listened to.

[55] She was like, that's not how divorces work even when he was, like, telling me about it.

[56] She's like, it just doesn't sit right with me that they don't look alike either.

[57] I'm like, oh, well, he told me this.

[58] But I should have picked up on the fact that his brother had nothing to add to the conversation either.

[59] In my head, it made sense what Carter said.

[60] Maybe his brother doesn't dislike me. Maybe he still dislikes Carter.

[61] And maybe he didn't want to talk about their family because I was asking a lot of family questions.

[62] Maybe he was like, you know what, I'm not going to get into this because it might end up being a fight between me and Carter later.

[63] So I was like, okay, well, that makes sense.

[64] The past two weeks before this event had happened, Carter was showing up at places around me where I was, like, we were in the same target.

[65] Or he was walking around the mall where I was walking around.

[66] He's like, oh, no, I was just running errands.

[67] We're so synced up together.

[68] We are so attached to each other that I guess this is just how.

[69] happening to us.

[70] We're on the same wavelength.

[71] And I was like, oh, yeah, maybe we are in sync that much as a couple that we're doing the same things at the same time.

[72] Like how sometimes couples dress the same without planning it.

[73] I was like, maybe this is our thing.

[74] Then tension and my weird gut feeling about Carter not really being who he says he was came to a breaking point a few days later.

[75] My friends and I always have a night of the month that we all make sure that we get together.

[76] Sometimes we'll be like, hey, no one bring their significant other.

[77] So Carter did not know where I was supposed to be.

[78] All he was aware of was that I was going to hang out with my friends that night.

[79] And leading up to this point, he was making it more and more clear that he didn't like the fact that I had guy friends, especially guy friends that were not going to the church group.

[80] And he didn't necessarily like the girls that I hung out with.

[81] He thought I should only hang out with the girl church group people, or really just hang out with him and have him take up most of my time.

[82] He definitely always wanted to be invited any time I was with a guy who wasn't a relative of me. And he knew from the start that I'm not okay with that.

[83] Everyone has different relationship rules.

[84] If you can't trust someone, if you have rules like that, then there's something wrong with your relationship in the trust department.

[85] but that's just my personal view on that because I would never do anything with my guy friends.

[86] But anyways, I was with them and the rest of the friend group and Carter was not supposed to know where I was.

[87] He ends up not just showing up where I am, but showing up already drunk and wasted.

[88] The most I had ever seen him drink at one time, I think was two beers.

[89] Never seen him drink a cocktail.

[90] Never.

[91] It was a very awkward corner booth that we were at.

[92] He made people move and he's drunk, so he's sloppily trying to climb over one of my gal pals.

[93] She's staring at me like, who are you dating?

[94] And I was like, yeah, good question.

[95] I'm very appalled at how he just came.

[96] I get a message on my phone from Austin.

[97] I don't blame Austin for this.

[98] Austin got a little pissy that night because he didn't bring his girlfriend and I was one of the people that was like no one bring their significant other let's go out and have a fun friend night Austin's like your boyfriend shows up now what's this about I was like no I didn't know like honestly I did not know he was coming he starts ordering cocktails I'm like okay this is the first and you probably don't need that he's mixing his alcohol which I highly advised people not to mix alcohol if you don't want to feel sick the next day.

[99] I also get a message from Ethan later on being like, this is the guy you're dating, really?

[100] Ethan starts questioning him more and more.

[101] Because this is actually one of the first times Ethan gets to sit down and really talk to this guy.

[102] And Ethan's like, what do you do?

[103] Kind of interrogation style.

[104] Austin's kind of looking at him as well because Carter's saying stuff that he never had said to Austin about what he does.

[105] And Carter's very sloppily saying what he does, but he also didn't stop talking and he kept backtracking because Ethan would be like, no, no, no, wait, back up.

[106] You said you deal with this in your work, but now you're also in this department in your work.

[107] How do those two even work together?

[108] And then now you said you're from here, but then you're technically not from there.

[109] You said that you went to college here, but then you didn't go to college.

[110] Ethan was really going at Carter.

[111] I was getting a little angry with Ethan only because I was like, I think Carter's.

[112] a little drunk here too, so I don't really know if he knows what he's saying, which in my head was an excuse.

[113] By the time the bill comes, he had probably consumed like, I don't know, five or more drinks.

[114] And he, very minimal food, he'd been eating off my plate and eating off my galpouse plate, which that was very gross.

[115] And I was getting looks, like the dirtiest looks that I gotten from my friend.

[116] This is very embarrassing.

[117] That's what I'm thinking in my head.

[118] I get my bill and his comes and he hands me his bill and he's like, it's your turn to pay because I was one of these girls that insisted that we do every other.

[119] And normally Carter actually didn't even follow this rule.

[120] Normally he paid for everything no matter what.

[121] We were at a semi -fancy restaurant as well, so it's not like the cocktails were cheap.

[122] They were very expensive.

[123] My bill was literally the past probably three or four dates tab combined to what he normally paid.

[124] I'm like, well, first of all, you're not even supposed to be here.

[125] I didn't know I was going to be paying for your cocktail, especially as someone who doesn't drink and wasn't drinking.

[126] I'm like, okay, I guess I'll pay.

[127] I get a message from my guy friends.

[128] They had beenmoed me money and they were like, here's some cash for, that blank -y -blank you're dating.

[129] Now, get him out of here.

[130] I'm like, okay, noted as to what you guys all think of him.

[131] Got the message loud and clear.

[132] I'm not going to lie, I was very angry because I was already unsettled about his family.

[133] I also had gone to his place that week, and when I got to his apartment door, which I had never been in, it completely smelt like weed.

[134] When he opened the door, he quickly almost toppled me over and slammed the door behind him.

[135] He smelled completely of weed.

[136] He said that it was his roommate, and I was like, oh, okay, he again played it off.

[137] But that building up to this friend group event that he just randomly showed up at, I reached my breaking point by then.

[138] And I had already had a week at work, too.

[139] It was like a perfect storm of events.

[140] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[141] I'm Sachi Cole.

[142] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[143] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[144] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment but soon faced mounting bills an active lawsuit followed by Larry King and no real product to push.

[145] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[146] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[147] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[148] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[149] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[150] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[151] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[152] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[153] She's like, I can't.

[154] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[155] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[156] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[157] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[158] Well, you were holding something back intentionally.

[159] Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.

[160] No, it's hysteria.

[161] It's all in your head.

[162] It's not physical.

[163] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[164] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[165] Or is it something else entirely?

[166] Something's wrong here.

[167] Something's not right.

[168] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[169] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[170] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[171] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[172] I was like, let me walk him to my apartment, sober him up enough that he can drive home.

[173] And then I'll meet all of you guys back downtown because we were supposed to go to some of the clubs downtown.

[174] My friends are like, okay, we'll call you in an hour if you're not here yet.

[175] And I'm like, okay, I walk with Carter to my place and have him come in and immediately he starts stripping down.

[176] He kicks his shoes off, throwing him, taking his shirt off, and immediately he goes to the bedroom and flops down on the bed.

[177] And I'm like, this is not your home.

[178] This is my home.

[179] I love my personal space.

[180] I really do.

[181] This is my home, buddy.

[182] You don't just walk in.

[183] I knew he was drunk, but you don't walk into someone's house and start stripping down.

[184] I was like, no, no, no, no. You need to have some water and you need to have some food.

[185] He started getting very aggressive and very angry.

[186] with me. I've been in some abusive relationships and so I was like, be careful he's getting angry.

[187] And he started getting more and more aggressive and he got to a point where he slammed me into the wall, took my shoulder and slammed me back into the wall.

[188] I was trying to give him water and he's like, I don't need water and he pushed me a little bit too hard.

[189] I was like, okay, well, he's drunk.

[190] Maybe he doesn't know his own strength.

[191] But I'm like, I'm going to call, I'm going to get Della on speaker here, just in case.

[192] Della picks up and she's like, It's like super late.

[193] Why are you calling me?

[194] Because by now an hour and a half had gone by from the time I was with my friend.

[195] And she was like, what's going on?

[196] She heard him in the background.

[197] And I was like, look, this is getting a little bit intense.

[198] He's very angry.

[199] Can you stay on the phone with me until I get him more sober?

[200] Again, he comes over and he pushes me and I tell him to stop.

[201] And like, I grew up in Jersey.

[202] I can get loud.

[203] And you push me a little bit too hard.

[204] I can get aggressive.

[205] And so I'm like, oh, go, don't touch me. I'm like, don't yell at you don't touch me. He did not listen.

[206] He's trying to usher me towards the bed because he wanted me to have sex with them.

[207] In my head, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm about to get raped by my boyfriend, which does happen.

[208] I was getting more and more scared, and she was still on the phone, and she was listening to a lot of it.

[209] She's like, you got to get them out of your apartment, says it loud and clear.

[210] In my head, I'm like, how do I get him so that he's not trying to force me to have sex with them?

[211] I love Law & Order SVU, and I do accredit it to Olivia Benson for some of the skills I picked up on as a kid of how to deal with aggressive men.

[212] SVU does more than they know of helping and warning girls.

[213] Big shout out to Law & Order.

[214] I saw an episode where the girl reverted to pretending to like the God.

[215] and being like, oh, everything's okay.

[216] But then she goes out of her apartment and he follows her and then she runs back in and slams the door.

[217] And I'm like, okay, we got a plan.

[218] That's what we're going with.

[219] I end up being like, oh, come on.

[220] Like, we're going to go meet my friends downtown.

[221] Come on, you can come with me. We'll go have fun.

[222] I coax them out the door enough and I start walking very quickly down my hallway.

[223] It's a very small, narrow hallway that I was in.

[224] and he ends up falling me, tries to catch up with me, to grab me. But when he gets close to me, as hard as I can, and I'm, again, super tiny, but as hard as I could, I just rammed my elbow straight into his side and pushed him as hard as I could against the wall to make him fall over.

[225] I don't know if he fell over.

[226] I don't know really what happened to him.

[227] All I was concerned about is I got him off his wits enough that I had enough time to run as fast as I could, back to my door, and I remember slamming the door as hard as I could and locking it and holding myself against the door for the first two seconds and staring at my Labrador who's staring at me like, what is going on?

[228] And I'm like, good question.

[229] I don't really know.

[230] Della was on the phone.

[231] She's like, well, is he gone?

[232] Is he there?

[233] She could hear him pounding on the door shouting.

[234] He was there for like an hour.

[235] Neighbors don't care.

[236] do anything, didn't come out, didn't want to see if anything's okay.

[237] If you ever hear something like that going on, highly encourage you, call the cops because most likely no one did.

[238] In my case, no one did.

[239] I should have called the cops, but I didn't.

[240] I was like, you know what, this is just another one of those bad guys that you ran into.

[241] I stayed on the phone with Della for a while.

[242] I was crying.

[243] She's like, you're okay, you're safe.

[244] That's what matters.

[245] She did tell me to call the cops.

[246] Austin, Ethan, and also messaged me what was going on.

[247] I typed a message to them, and they're like, well, we can come and get you.

[248] And I'm like, no, it was one of those things for, like, when that happens and how aggressive he was being with me. I don't know.

[249] I didn't want people to see how not put together I was.

[250] I grew up in the dance world, too.

[251] Like, you've got to be perfect all the time.

[252] But no, you don't, if you need help, reach out to those people.

[253] Della was like, okay, pack a bag right now.

[254] And when he's gone, and the noise is stopped, wait an hour and then head to your parents' house.

[255] And that was the best piece of advice I think I ever got from her and that I actually listened to.

[256] I packed a bag, grabbed my Labrador puppy.

[257] When I knew Carter was gone, I even poked my head out and was looking around.

[258] I remember running to my car, getting in the car and locking the door right away too.

[259] Because when someone comes at you physically and is pounding you against a wall and shouting, it scares you.

[260] Where are they?

[261] I head home, and I was at my home at 4 .30 or like 5 o 'clock in the morning.

[262] My dad is an early, early riser, and he was up in his lazy boy chair drinking his coffee, and he looks at me, and he's like, you're here early.

[263] I still had all my makeup on.

[264] He could tell something was wrong.

[265] he pours me a cup of coffee and is like I didn't know you were coming here it looks like you're going to be here for a while I have a huge duffel packed with a ton of stuff I was like yeah he gave me some coffee but he's like just go rest up I went to my room I couldn't sleep at all but I tried I come out and my mom was up by now and I kind of tell them what went on not fully you never really want to tell your parents that you were almost raped, especially my family.

[266] I grew up in a family that didn't really talk about that type of stuff.

[267] It's also just an uncomfortable conversation to have with them.

[268] So I just told them that it was a night where he got super drunk.

[269] I didn't really like him and that I don't want to be his girlfriend anymore.

[270] I sent him a big, long message breaking up with him.

[271] In my head, I'm like, I'm not going to go meet this guy in person.

[272] again because he was physically, physically aggressive.

[273] I don't want to be around him again.

[274] I had bruises on me. The guy is not who you want to be in a room alone with.

[275] So I ended up sending him that huge message.

[276] He tried calling a million times, tried sending me a ton of messages, and I never replied.

[277] I get a call from one of the girls at church because it was Sunday the next day.

[278] She said, hey, where are you?

[279] Carter's looking for you.

[280] I'm like, Carter and I broke up.

[281] up, he doesn't need to know where I am.

[282] She's like, oh, he's really concerned about you.

[283] I'm like, okay, well, he got my message so he knows.

[284] Because I didn't really want to talk about it with them.

[285] I'm like, look, it's no one's business.

[286] What went on between us?

[287] I knew he had friends in the church, so I was like, I'm not going to bad mouth him.

[288] They can make up their own minds about him.

[289] And let me tell you, if something that bad happens to you, you have every right to tell people what happen because they should not be around him either.

[290] So I stayed at my parents for the next few days, kept getting constant messages from Carter.

[291] And then finally I was like, okay, it's time to go home.

[292] I was also getting message from Austin, Ethan, being like, girl, where are you?

[293] Don't stop living your life because of this creeper.

[294] I go back to my apartment and there's tons of handwritten note and different gifts, a few Starbucks there that had been, I guess, days old, but he left it there.

[295] There's a ton of crap on my welcome mat, all from him.

[296] And what's really strange is he shouldn't have been able to get in without a key anyways.

[297] That was weird that he was getting into the apartment complex because you have to scan in and I never gave him a key.

[298] I was like, oh, I guess someone must have let him in or maybe the door was cropped open or something.

[299] I should have reported it though right off of that, but I did not.

[300] I continued to receive messages from him and then all of a sudden everything went silent.

[301] Everything just went silent.

[302] I was like, okay, he must have moved on.

[303] About a month goes by and then at night, someone tried to break into my apartment.

[304] Someone was at the back door.

[305] My dog's going nuts and there's like pounding.

[306] and whoever it was couldn't get in.

[307] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[308] She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

[309] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[310] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[311] What happens next?

[312] Depends on who you ask.

[313] Was it a crime of passion?

[314] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[315] This was clearly an intentional act.

[316] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[317] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[318] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[319] Everyone had an opinion.

[320] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[321] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[322] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[323] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[324] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[325] I freaked out.

[326] I called Della.

[327] She didn't pick up this time.

[328] But I was like, someone tried to break into my place last night.

[329] And I did report it to the apartment complex the next day because what I found at my front door was this long, long handwritten note again from Carter.

[330] It was just this long note saying how much that we should be together, how much we need each other, that he thought we were going to get married, all this.

[331] I was like, oh my gosh, no, he shouldn't have been able to break in.

[332] And so I reported that and the complex didn't do anything about it.

[333] were like, okay, whatever.

[334] Then another day or two goes by and he tries to break in again.

[335] And this time it was a lot more aggressive.

[336] They tried the front door and the back door.

[337] Now I'm getting scared.

[338] And another note was left.

[339] So that morning I called my mom and tell her what's going on.

[340] And she's like, you need to call the cops.

[341] I go out first to let my dog go to the restaurant in the park.

[342] But there's security guards there.

[343] And I go up to them.

[344] And I go up to And I kind of start crying because I was just emotional.

[345] I was scared to call the cops because cops are scary.

[346] I'm the girl that starts shaking if a cop pulls me over for speeding.

[347] They were even women's security guards.

[348] I told them what was going on and I'm crying.

[349] And I have the note in my hand of what he sent me. And they literally were like, we can't do anything for you.

[350] You just need to call the cops.

[351] They just leave.

[352] And I'm like, well, thanks for that.

[353] So I end up calling the cops.

[354] The cops come and I tell them what's going on.

[355] They look him up in the system and I give him his name and they're like, ah, that can't be it.

[356] I show them a picture and they start doing more and more research.

[357] They scan the note and all this stuff.

[358] Then the guy, the one detective, turns his little computer and he's like, is this the guy you were dating?

[359] I look and I was like, yeah, that's Carter, because a picture of him was pulled up.

[360] And he's like, well, his name's not Carter.

[361] And he told me Carter's real name.

[362] And I'm just staring at him.

[363] And I'm like, what do you mean?

[364] That's not his name.

[365] He's like, why don't you tell us everything you know about this guy?

[366] In my head, I wanted to respond with the sassiest thing possible.

[367] Like, well, clearly nothing.

[368] Clearly, I didn't even know his name.

[369] So why don't you tell me about him?

[370] But I ran them through our relationship and what happened.

[371] There's two cops there.

[372] And the one guy is taking pictures of the notes and everything and scanning it.

[373] And he's like, well, your boyfriend didn't go to college.

[374] He didn't even do high school.

[375] His parents don't live where he said his parents live.

[376] That's not his brother you met.

[377] They told me that neither of those two people were anything to Carter.

[378] It was not his brother, and that both those people had been hired to play his brother and his brother's girlfriend.

[379] I was very caught off barred on that one.

[380] I was like, who does that?

[381] Harry and I were even friends on Instagram, and I had looked at her Instagram, and Lee wasn't anywhere on it.

[382] He wasn't in one photo, and they had been apparently dating for like three or four years.

[383] I was like, well, maybe she just doesn't want her relationship on her Instagram.

[384] I should have picked up on that.

[385] Big red flag I ignored there.

[386] I even messaged Carrie and I was like, hey, did you even know these people?

[387] Were you hired?

[388] I'm not here to judge you.

[389] I don't know your circumstances or what's going on in your life that you would have to do this.

[390] But can you just tell me what Carter said to hire you?

[391] I'm also wondering, where do you find people to hire to play fake people?

[392] Is that like a Craigslist thing?

[393] I don't even know how that works.

[394] And that's why I messaged her.

[395] But right away, she just blocked me. So I'll still never know the answer to that one.

[396] They ended up telling me who I thought Carter was, was actually a guy who had been in Juvie since the eighth grade.

[397] He had multiple substance abuse things against him, even as a dealer.

[398] And he had gone to prison a few times.

[399] He had told me at one point that he had been in, prison for like overnight or like two days because of his drug thing back in high school but no he had been in prison for almost a year it was substance abuse but also he had beat a guy to the point where the man had to go to the hospital so he's very aggressive and violent I also found out he had done this to a previous woman and she had an ongoing relationship with him for about a year and a half The cop was like, well, kudos to you for figuring him out in two and a half month.

[400] And I'm like, thanks for the praise.

[401] I guess I deserve a round of applause.

[402] Like, no. And I asked if I could speak to the girl.

[403] And they're like, well, no, you can't talk to her because if anything ever happens to another girl or if you're able to get a case against him, then you can't have collaborating stories or however that really works.

[404] And I was like, well, right now I really just want someone to relate to.

[405] The cops came a few times to question me. I had to go into victim service counseling.

[406] I asked for a restraining order, and I was not allowed to get one.

[407] I tried multiple ways.

[408] I submitted it to the courts, the proper way that you're supposed to do it.

[409] Victim services tried to get it for me as well.

[410] But the only way I can get a restraining order, even to this day, is if Carter is in the same room as me, or I see him personally, and he's like in the same space as me. I have all the paperwork ready to go.

[411] You need to have another encounter in order to get a restraining order in Texas.

[412] You can get arrested for jaywalking, but a man who tries to break into your apartment ended up being a total of three -time, a person who put a tracker on my phone, the cops figured out that he was tracking my phone and where I was moving around.

[413] and a person who threw you into a wall, like, no, you can't get even a restraining order nonetheless have them arrested.

[414] But you can for jaywalking.

[415] I also found out he did not work where he said he worked.

[416] He did not live where he said he lived, and the car he had was not actually registered to him.

[417] So everything I knew about him was a lie.

[418] At first, I didn't know how to take that at all, especially before going through victim service counseling, I was just kind of like, what do you mean?

[419] I dated a con man. No, no, no, no, no. I almost didn't want to believe it.

[420] I was like, no, you don't understand.

[421] I saw a profile.

[422] We talked.

[423] He said it was this, this, and this.

[424] My parents thought he was fine.

[425] Sure, like, there's some weird quirks about him.

[426] He got too drunk that night and was it like he's an aggressive guy that I don't want to be in a relationship with.

[427] But no, no, no. I didn't date someone who created a fake name, created a fake brother, an entire fake life.

[428] That's not the guy I dated.

[429] Like, there's no way.

[430] I started getting creepier and creepier that I was like, I was envisioning marriage with a guy who was secretly tracking everywhere I went, going by a name that wasn't his name.

[431] I had a whole Pinterest board ready to walk down the aisle to a guy who wasn't real.

[432] They just said all the right things and did everything by the book.

[433] He even met my niece and held her and walked her through her around, played with her.

[434] He met my uncle as well.

[435] My uncle was also one who warned me about him.

[436] My uncle, he's a pastor, but he also was a counselor, and he diagnosed personality disorders in the Air Force and even in Guantanamo Bay for the United States.

[437] States military.

[438] So his job is to read personalities and to figure out when people are con men.

[439] He had told me that something didn't even feel right or add up with this individual.

[440] I ignored it.

[441] I even ignored that warning.

[442] Looking back, I started feeling more and more dumb.

[443] I was like, why did you believe this?

[444] Then I learned through victim services.

[445] It's not, like, I'm not the only girl they said that goes through this.

[446] Most people, they said, when they're on dating app, they end up dating someone who is no more real than their favorite book character.

[447] They create this false image of an individual.

[448] For me, I picked an actual con man. I excused it because in my head, I saw this profile.

[449] And I was like, okay, he checks the box of Christian, checks the box of same age or age, same activities.

[450] You're a paddleboarder, but no, you're not.

[451] I found out that basically it's how people describe your Instagram account.

[452] You create a fake life.

[453] You want the world to know of you.

[454] But there's people out there, and we even do it ourselves to everyone does it to some degree.

[455] We're creating a fake persona.

[456] And on a dating app, you find a fake persona or a fake version of a person.

[457] And you already start falling in love with them.

[458] They check these boxes.

[459] So by the time, and especially if you go to the conversation level and start having conversations with them, you already feel like you've got to know them to a certain point.

[460] In your head, you're like, I feel like I've known this person, kind of like a book character almost.

[461] So when you meet them, your guard is already down because you already, to some degree, feel like you know this person.

[462] It's very different than going to a bar or even a coffee shop and meeting someone for the very first.

[463] time and doing introductions that way where you get to actually know them on the spot in reality with the dating profile you start falling in love with a screen and you create you box this person into your own reality and let's all be honest you can be a very different person typing and texting someone i know this from even just being angry like i can type a very angry heated message but would i ever actually say it to the person's face i probably wouldn't have the balls to say that to someone face.

[464] Same goes for when you're flirting online or through dating app.

[465] You can say things, but you don't actually mean them.

[466] I was definitely someone who started falling in love with a version of someone I created.

[467] Yes, I went off of a profile, but I boxed him in to a fake reality.

[468] And the fact that he also was a con man escalated that even farther.

[469] I don't know what would have happened to me if I had continued that relationship.

[470] I know he had tax evasion, things against him.

[471] I know he got money out of the other girl, but that's as far as I know about her.

[472] My friend's laugh because we've been calling him the hinge hustler from the time the cops came basically the first time and told me that I didn't know who this individual was.

[473] Even after the cops and I tried to get that restraining order filed, I didn't know that he's tracking my phone until later.

[474] they did run tests on my car and stuff like that, but the phone thing was a little bit later.

[475] People would tell me that he came to the church looking for me when I told the church exactly what had happened and that he was a con man. I'm like, oh, well, I better tell the church this.

[476] They didn't care.

[477] No one surrounded me. So that really turned me off of organized religion for a long time.

[478] I had some issues with it in the past.

[479] I grew up in a Christian private school.

[480] I never had necessarily great experiences with organized religion.

[481] This kind of like put me back to my original thoughts on it.

[482] We're still experimenting where I fall and organize religion.

[483] But this definitely brought to light.

[484] I had Ethan Austin and Della who were really, really there for me. Della's mom was there for me. My own parents were there for me. My work boss was really there for me. Shout out to my work.

[485] They were very sweet in handling this.

[486] I was able to tell them what was going on.

[487] But even if you only have a few people that you can really open up to, definitely do that, definitely find help through victim services.

[488] I remember Ethan, who really, really was against Carter.

[489] It helped me think through a lot of the red flags that victim services asked me to document.

[490] I remember him calling me almost every day being like, hey, let's go to a yoga class, let's go get lunch.

[491] And if he wasn't able to take me and do something with me that day, Austin would come and knock on my door because he lived in the same complex and was like, let's go make cocktails or let's go do this.

[492] I don't know what I would have done without Della, Austin, Ethan.

[493] They definitely pulled me up from being in some dark places.

[494] They definitely found me on the kitchen floor crying multiple times.

[495] Della even flied out the next week when we found out he was a con man and she, She stayed with me for about a week.

[496] Then I had a girl's trip as well to Nashville because that was when I found out about the phone thing, essentially, was that he was tracking my phone.

[497] And because of the multiple break -ins, just to shed light on what happened when someone's tracking you and multiple break -ins, I've had to move twice now.

[498] I lived with my parents.

[499] There was talk of me going to another city.

[500] There was talk of me moving out just to a whole different state for work.

[501] because I was scared.

[502] I was scared of my core that I was going to run into this guy, especially after learning he'd gone to prison for like beating up a guy.

[503] I didn't really know what to do and my mind was not in a good space.

[504] I had my master's degree.

[505] I had everything in line.

[506] I had my whole life together.

[507] I thought I was mature enough to have a dog and raised a puppy.

[508] And the fact that I let someone so close into my life, we're intimate, we were so close with each other.

[509] And I didn't even know his name.

[510] I didn't even know his name.

[511] This guy who held me, kissed my face, I thought I was safe with, was the most unsafe person I probably could have been around.

[512] That really messed with my mind.

[513] You can tell yourself so many things.

[514] Like you're not smart.

[515] Lilo, like you can be your own biggest critic.

[516] And when you go through something like that, you can be really mean to yourself.

[517] Going on a girl's trip and everything, having my dad be like, don't stop living your life.

[518] You can do this.

[519] Having those people and those voices in your life will get you through it.

[520] Also having a Labrador will also get you through it.

[521] Just hugging them multiple times.

[522] They know when you're sad, but having some sort of support system, if that means moving or going on a trip, Do whatever it takes to make yourself feel safe and to get yourself back on track.

[523] Also, they always said that he might always be in the dark stocking.

[524] So the latest incident we had was he showed back up at the church this past year for Easter.

[525] He had gone to Easter with my family at that church.

[526] My brother actually saw him.

[527] Carter ended up not seeing my brother, but he was told to leave.

[528] He left the church, but he's still out there.

[529] He hasn't been caught by the cops either for his tax evasion because by the time the cops were aware of him, he wasn't in the car.

[530] He had quit his job, like the supposed job he had.

[531] Apparently they couldn't find him there and he had left.

[532] He disappeared for a while.

[533] I guess he's back because even Della went back on the dating app pretending to be me and he tried messaging me through a dating app because she wanted to see if he was still in the area.

[534] He's still in the area, but after going through victim service counseling, moving a couple times to a very secure apartment now, I actually do feel safer.

[535] I feel more confident going through this, definitely with the help of the counseling I got through victim services, being able to talk with my friends about it and having the family support that I have.

[536] It's definitely something that I know will always kind of be around unless he actually is caught, but it's more soothing to know that I've thought about it.

[537] I know what I would do.

[538] If I saw him, I already know that I'd be calling the cops right away.

[539] At the end of the day, you have to know that you have to be able to protect yourself.

[540] Knowing that you've got yourself is definitely something big.

[541] you have to tell yourself you're not stupid and then you can handle it and yeah the cops weren't able to do anything they weren't necessarily helpful my self -defense coach was probably more helpful he's like i'll go get him for you he even showed up he went to the church a few times to make sure he didn't show up when i was there but if you have to go self -defense classes do whatever you need to in order to feel that way because no one is really coming to save you sometimes so feel confident in yourself, know that you can accomplish things and that you can save yourself.

[542] You're smart enough to figure something out if it's running down a hallway and shoving a guy into a wall.

[543] Your gut instinct is what's correct, and I wish I would have listened to my gut sooner than I did.

[544] Because if I had listened to my gut feelings, I never would have had to run down that hallway.

[545] That's one of the biggest takeaways leading up to that.

[546] And if you do go through this, which I hope none of you do, document every single thing because the cops will not document everything.

[547] You need to never delete a voicemail, never delete a text message, screenshot everything, send it to your email, keep a record because you need to have enough stuff for restraining orders.

[548] You need to have enough stuff documented.

[549] I even reported it to the cops that he showed up at my church for Easter.

[550] document everything because it's going to be necessary.

[551] That way, if something does happen to you, which I hope nothing does, I hope nothing happens anyone ever, but you have it all ready to go and you can just hit send and get things done fast because things take a while as well.

[552] You'll be waiting for responses for a while, but if you have everything documented, you're good to go.

[553] If you are on the dating app, my personal recommendation is don't be on the dating app.

[554] don't need it.

[555] You can meet people the natural way.

[556] Don't box someone in and don't box yourself in either.

[557] Don't think you know someone based on a few pictures and a few words.

[558] That's how you meet hinge hustlers or as Netflix found the Tinder swindler.

[559] We don't want any of that.

[560] I'm so incredibly sorry that you experienced this and went through this.

[561] I'm also so incredibly thankful that you were willing to come share your story.

[562] I really appreciate all of the nuggets and the hindsights that you offered and the things that victim services were able to help you understand how this happens and have a better awareness of the tactics that these kind of predators use and those really helpful safety tips because I think it's extremely valuable.

[563] So thank you so much.

[564] I truly believe sharing stories like yours helps save lives, especially given how prevalent dating apps continue to be and quite frankly how they continue to refuse to add safety features that already exist, but they don't want people to associate dating apps with not feeling safe.

[565] I mean, it took the Netflix documentary for the Tinder swindler guy to get kicked off.

[566] Then I saw it in a bunch of articles coming out and people were praising it.

[567] I'm sorry, I'm not excited that it took a Netflix documentary for him to be kicked off.

[568] Safety first, it's not about questioning people.

[569] It's about protecting yourself and making sure that you're taking the extra steps towards safety.

[570] And I love that you have a self -defense coach.

[571] I think that's so badass.

[572] I think knowing, like you said, being prepared, knowing that you can defend yourself, makes you more confident in those situations.

[573] I so appreciate all of your energy and helpful information that you shared.

[574] And I just can't thank you enough for your time.

[575] Well, thank you for taking time to do it, too.

[576] Yeah.

[577] It definitely helps put a closure to some of it.

[578] So it's definitely also helpful.

[579] So thank you.

[580] Thank you so much for listening.

[581] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[582] Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[583] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[584] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[585] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[586] Thank you so much.

[587] If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early.

[588] and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[589] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

[590] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.