S21 E8: (2/2) [Krystyn] I Feel the Need to Fight

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences, as it discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder.

[11] Content warnings for each episode and confidential resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes.

[12] Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[13] pseudonyms are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection.

[14] Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media, or Wondery.

[15] The podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment.

[16] Thank you so much for listening.

[17] The day I got taken.

[18] That was my day of freedom.

[19] The counselor called my grandma.

[20] She flew all the way from Indiana, my grandmother on my mom's side so that she could come get me. She didn't want me to be alone.

[21] My dad, he was in jail, he was on a sex offender registry or something, but he has no record.

[22] So I am happy to hone in on as much details just so people understand how truly evil he is.

[23] I had reached out a couple years ago to try to get the records.

[24] My CPS records, and they said, like, fill out this form and they'll take three months to get them.

[25] And I was like, okay, I don't know if I really need them right now.

[26] But once you confirmed, we're doing this, I filled it out.

[27] It came back pretty quickly.

[28] It was 38 pages long.

[29] In that report, it essentially states that the day after I was taken, my CPS worker met with my dad.

[30] And she explained everything to him.

[31] And then he goes on to say, the allegations were completely false.

[32] and that Kristen was just angry, that he will not let her date, and he took away her crimping iron.

[33] Mr. Blood said that he has caught her sneaking and having boyfriends at school.

[34] He said that he had a whole box full of notes she was written talking about boyfriends.

[35] Mr. Blood said that all the children have had a difficult time with their mother's death because her boyfriend did it and got away with it.

[36] Mr. Blood said that Kristen holds him partially responsible for her mother's death because when Kristen was with her mother, her boyfriend did not beat her as much.

[37] Mr. Blood said that the court awarded him custody of the children because their mother was using drugs.

[38] She asked him about the allegations, and he said that the child's grandmother, my lovely grandma, put the ideas in my head and made me say these things that it was all false.

[39] And Mr. Blood said, he's talking about the 15 -year -old that was babysitting me. He said that she was asking about having sex with him, and also Mr. Blood said he never purchased alcohol for her.

[40] He would not make eye contact when, like, she asked him any questions about.

[41] sexual abuse.

[42] Mr. Blood said he was arrested in 1992 and charged for child molestation.

[43] It went to trial and he was not convicted.

[44] Mr. Blood did not ask one time how's his daughter doing that's been taken.

[45] Even if I had made this all up, this elaborate story about him, wouldn't you care how your daughter's doing?

[46] And then it says my interview, Kristen said her father, Wanner and Blood made her have sex with him.

[47] As she got older, he would offer her money to do it.

[48] She said that this last time she made a deal with him to have sex at least once a week for six months in order to stay with her friends.

[49] She said that he took all her stuff because he wanted her to on his birthday, but she said no because she was tired.

[50] Seeing the interviews with the police, I remember them getting frustrated, it's not in here, but them getting frustrated that I didn't want to use the words penis and vagina because I'd been getting conditioned to not say them.

[51] It, like, grossed me out.

[52] My grandma didn't know.

[53] She's like, Kristen, did he put his penis in your vagina?

[54] I was like, Grandma, no, stop.

[55] I couldn't stand the words.

[56] Now I can say them, okay, but in the beginning, for a long time after that, it bothered me to no end.

[57] If you look through this report, you'll see they did not rush this investigation whatsoever.

[58] I don't think it was handled anywhere near what it would be handled like today.

[59] I would hope at least, but it was handled pretty awful.

[60] I remember him recording and like, how.

[61] having videos.

[62] So if I'm somewhere on the dark web, it would not surprise me. I had mentioned it to a police officer in the interview and they're like, oh, this could potentially be a federal case.

[63] But by the time they went and searched my dad's house with a warrant, several, several days it passed.

[64] Like, so of course, any evidence of that after knowing he had been caught is going to be disposed of unless you're an idiot.

[65] If you read the medical exam, it's very telling.

[66] I'll just read that verbatim.

[67] On 11 -208 at 9 .40 a .m., my caseworker picked me up at school and transported her to KAC for her medical appointment.

[68] She was seen by a doctor, and then the assistant spoke with caseworker.

[69] She reported to caseworker that there was no question that the child had been repeatedly raped.

[70] She said that her vaginal area had the appearance of a sexually active woman in her 30s or one who had given birth.

[71] C .M. had to take Kristen to the hospital next door to have blood drawn.

[72] Kristen had never had blood, given blood before, and was very nervous, but did very well.

[73] C .M. took her to lunch afterward.

[74] She did not talk much the entire day.

[75] She would listen to the radio in the car and only talked a little at lunch.

[76] C .M. did tell her that C .M. was proud of her for how well she had done and how brave she was being.

[77] That's the extent of the medical exam.

[78] Did he really think, like, what he had done to me day in and day out for years?

[79] didn't do a toll on my body.

[80] The medical exam, reading it verbatim, I, like, bawled my eyes out when I got it.

[81] It was just, like, I couldn't understand, like, how someone who's going to father do that to, like, their child.

[82] I look at my children.

[83] I love them so much.

[84] And my daughter's age I was when he started.

[85] I can't imagine, like, the pain.

[86] Her being so afraid of her own parents.

[87] When I had to get my medical exam done, they had a male doctor do it.

[88] That should not be a thing.

[89] Like, if a girl's coming in for sexual assault, when I let's say, especially by a male, you would at least maybe ask.

[90] And I remember he did like a full breast exam.

[91] He was like squeezing my breast.

[92] This is what y 'all are putting me through right after.

[93] It just seemed very wrong.

[94] Or at least ask.

[95] He didn't even ask.

[96] He was just like, yeah, I'm going to do this now.

[97] When I tell people there, they're like, are you like fucking serious right now?

[98] Did they ever give you a court victim advocate?

[99] No. I wasn't allowed to sit in the trial.

[100] I asked me in about it recently, and she said that I didn't want her to sit in the trial, so she didn't.

[101] I lived with her that was about to live with her.

[102] I was embarrassed for her to, like, know what I went through.

[103] I didn't want people to know about it.

[104] But my grandma did sit in.

[105] She was the one who told me a lot of the details.

[106] The counselor who helped me, one of her friends was in the jury.

[107] Did she testify?

[108] Like, who else testified?

[109] Do you know?

[110] I know the police officer did.

[111] I know I did.

[112] and my dad did.

[113] I even told the place about where we would go with the UPS trucks and stuff.

[114] When the cop was asked about it in court during the trial, he essentially said he never went to check to see if it was a possibility for him to do what I had said.

[115] Like he didn't go check out the area, see if you could park between them, which I don't know, it doesn't surprise me anymore, but it is sad that you finally have the courage to tell someone who finally does something and then like it still doesn't matter.

[116] It was horrible.

[117] The biggest thing, which was used against me later in court, was that I had this idea of love.

[118] I never had a boyfriend, really.

[119] The closest thing I had was my boyfriend quotation marks in my last year.

[120] I lived with my dad in the sixth grade.

[121] The most I did was like hold their hand.

[122] That was it.

[123] And that was a lot for me. Like I was obsessed with the idea of love.

[124] I would watch all the romantic comedies in the world.

[125] I would read all of those books too by Nicholas Sparks.

[126] I would just think I was in love with every boy I had a crush on.

[127] He called me boy crazy in the CPS records.

[128] I'm like, yeah, that was true.

[129] But also, he was claiming that why my physical exam looked the way it did is because I just had so many boyfriends that I was just having sex with.

[130] In the sixth grade, I was like, sir, you didn't even let me leave the house to go to church.

[131] When am I having time at 10 years old and 11 years old to go have sex with a billion boys?

[132] I did not say the things I would say now.

[133] I was 14.

[134] I had dyed my hair black, and they used that against me. His lawyer was saying, like, oh, so you wanted to move to Indiana and dye your hair black, so that's why you made this up, because you want to date boys.

[135] For them to get to not guilty, that means the jury believed his side, or at least somewhat did, that, like, I was so sexually active and that I just wanted to be free.

[136] It's truly disturbing that a jury could find him not guilty.

[137] I kind of hope doing this podcast makes people come out of the woodwork and be like, hey, I was a jury on this trial.

[138] And this is why we didn't convict him.

[139] And I tried to get the records from it.

[140] And I guess because he was not guilty, he was able to get it expunged from the records, the whole court trial, all of it.

[141] Which I find ridiculous.

[142] He's gotten away with it.

[143] How many times?

[144] Like, if you look up his criminal record, the only thing you find on there is, I think, domestic violence.

[145] And, like, he had a charge from when he escaped prison.

[146] with another pedophile.

[147] There's nothing that shows he's an actual pedophile.

[148] At least it's in CPS record.

[149] If he were to apply to work at a daycare, they would see it was proven that he did do it to me. But it's just crazy to me that if someone looks up his records, like a background check, it's not going to come up unless he's trying to work at a place that has kids.

[150] He can live right next to a school.

[151] He can babysit children.

[152] I had a very guilty conscience about telling on him for the next few years.

[153] During the court case, I didn't lie.

[154] But they would ask me, like, did he touch you there?

[155] And I would say, yes, he did.

[156] But he was a good dad.

[157] You love your dad when you're a kid.

[158] Like, you want to believe that they love you.

[159] He told me if I told I would lose my brothers.

[160] And I did.

[161] So it was like, oh, he was right all along.

[162] I should have just dealt with it.

[163] For a few years, my brothers could have been happy.

[164] I hated myself for telling.

[165] For the next two, three years, I would, like, cry every night because my brothers had to go live with my dad's mom, who's like a terrible person.

[166] I felt so bad for them and they hated me. Like, my brothers didn't talk to me for probably four or five years after.

[167] They were mad at me because they were brainwashed into thinking that I made up what was happening to me. I don't necessarily blame them, but I remember reaching out to the pastor of this church that we went to.

[168] I was like, I really need help connecting with my brothers.

[169] I miss them a lot.

[170] And I wanted to know if you thought it would be a good idea for me to come to the church.

[171] I really enjoyed it there and I miss everybody there.

[172] The pastor of this church was like, no. I don't think you should come and was not apologetic to anything that had happened to me. It kind of seemed like he didn't believe it happened to me either.

[173] Like he was angry that I said something.

[174] It just gives me a very sour view of that church specifically, but also of religion.

[175] Because people like my dad to this day is like, God forgives me. So whatever I have done in the past doesn't matter because my God has forgiven me. After this happens, you're with your grandmother?

[176] Where are you living?

[177] I lived with my grandma and my grandpa.

[178] I think it was 2008, 2009, potentially 2010.

[179] Whenever I was freshman in high school, when I lived with my grandparents, they didn't have a lot of room.

[180] Their house is like a summer home that was never meant to be lived in full time, but they made it work.

[181] And they had a closet that they had renovated to be my bedroom.

[182] And they let me paint it whatever color I wanted.

[183] So I picked lime green, which it like sounds sad.

[184] But that was the best that they could do.

[185] They didn't have a lot of money.

[186] I ended up actually getting like pretty bullied at some point while I live there.

[187] Everyone found out what happened to me because I started telling people and it got to the point where like an ex -boyfriend, he would message people and be like, don't date her.

[188] You'd have to have a 10 by 4 put in so you wouldn't fall into her vagina.

[189] She's so like stretched out or something like that because of her dad.

[190] So then I went to live with my aunt and uncle, which is my mother's brother and his wife.

[191] I lived with them until I went to college, but I made to Texas when I was 17 because my uncle's job relocated from Chicago.

[192] It was difficult.

[193] We have a much better relationship now.

[194] My aunt and I are very different people, and my uncle's very timid and doesn't like to talk about things that much.

[195] I love them both, but at the time, I was very traumatized, quiet, and like would get very easily upset.

[196] I cried at the drop of a hat.

[197] It took me a very long time to get remotely healed from everything because I was so unwilling to be healed to.

[198] Like I was not willing to do a lot of work at that age.

[199] So I was probably not a fun teenager to have.

[200] Now we're closer and we get along now that I'm not like a traumatized 16 year old in her home.

[201] The last time I went to visit her, because she has a couple kids and they're kind of close to my kids age.

[202] She told me that apparently my father, when they still lived in Indiana, had showed up at my school.

[203] I had seen him and I was freaked out.

[204] I don't even remember that.

[205] And she had to go to the police station and get a restraining order put on him.

[206] And there is evidence.

[207] The invasion of privacy charge in Indiana, that's actually what that's from.

[208] And I didn't know that until a couple months ago.

[209] She's protective.

[210] She was always a bit angry at my brothers because of the way they ostracized me for the first few years.

[211] She had a lot less forgiveness to give them than I do because I was in the home with them.

[212] So I understood it a bit better.

[213] Then I went to college, got married, got divorced, had a baby in between there.

[214] I am Kelly.

[215] Kristen, she's so genuine.

[216] She is very, very down to earth.

[217] She's so easy to talk to it.

[218] She's very demure, kind of self -effacing.

[219] So she might be a little quiet at first when you meet her.

[220] She's a little soft -spoken, but she just has this cold.

[221] People just open up to her because she's an excellent listener.

[222] We're both also just a little awkward.

[223] Similar sense of humor.

[224] If you get us together, we'll just giggle for hours at hours.

[225] I see what happened to her in childhood affecting her in adulthood.

[226] You kind of have to cope and learn things the hard way, especially if you don't have the support that you should, but you have harm.

[227] You just don't have those specific like infrastructures in your brain to allow you to develop those healthy relationships.

[228] So I see her in these patterns.

[229] I met Kristen in the fall of 2014.

[230] We were both going to school together in undergrad.

[231] We sat down together and we clicked in a way that was so immediate.

[232] We lived together for a couple of years.

[233] We were roommates.

[234] I had moved back with my parents and she was looking for, honestly, just like a way out of her current situation.

[235] I was like, hey, let's just solve that together.

[236] When did Kristen first start sharing with you about her past?

[237] I think it started out with her telling me stuff about her relationship with her ex -husband.

[238] She had gotten pregnant.

[239] She had had a baby.

[240] She was living in Houston at the time, and she would just call me when shit was going down.

[241] She had to lock herself in a bathroom to, put a wall between her and him, and that was opening of the door to me kind of like seeing that ongoing trauma that was happening.

[242] So I guess maybe after like six months of hanging out together and getting closer, we would just like hang out in my apartment.

[243] It would just come up naturally.

[244] I'd talk about my parents and then she would just be like, my mother passed away.

[245] And then she would talk about how she doesn't talk to her daddy more.

[246] When you find someone that you establish that sense of safety, you kind of open up.

[247] You see that effect.

[248] You see that effect.

[249] her in other ways.

[250] Like, she used to have panic attacks when we live together.

[251] She was just, like, knocking my door and asked to, like, crawl into the bed and we would just lay there.

[252] And it's just the companionship of not being alone.

[253] I think the, like, more detail that she would give about what happened with her and her dad, it's just stuff that you can't imagine.

[254] She would listen to these podcasts that take you to those dark places.

[255] And she'd be like, you know, since I have lived through it, it makes me feel like there's a connection between my story and their stories.

[256] Her experience is just so much more than you ever here watching like an episode of some murder mystery show or something like that.

[257] It's just so explicit.

[258] That's probably the most shocking part.

[259] And then also the fact that he still has kids that live with him and the fact that he got off totally scoffrey, even though they had like physical evidence and she testified at such a young age.

[260] At this point in my life, I'm like, yeah, that's not shocking the way the justice system.

[261] It's just set up and how laws are always written from the perspective of men and never from the perspective of a woman or a child.

[262] But you just think that there had to have been something that could have happened to stop it for going on for so long.

[263] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[264] I'm Sachi Cole.

[265] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[266] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[267] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[268] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[269] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judici, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[270] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[271] You can listen to scam influencers early and ad free right now on Wondry Plus.

[272] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[273] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[274] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[275] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[276] What happens next?

[277] Depends on who you ask.

[278] Was it a crime of passion?

[279] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[280] This was clearly an intentional act.

[281] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[282] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[283] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[284] Everyone had an opinion.

[285] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[286] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[287] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[288] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[289] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[290] I think it was 2021.

[291] I found out Arthur, he was dating a new woman, so I found her on Facebook, found her son, messaged him, told him everything like your mother's in danger.

[292] If you don't believe me, I'm sorry.

[293] And he was like, oh, I had heard that there was a rumor that he had killed someone, but it really bothered him.

[294] And then I called the detective on the case, and I recorded that.

[295] The steps that the prosecutor indicated were necessary to file charges.

[296] Following the investigation, I signed your mother's death certificate as a homicide.

[297] To this day, I still believe it was a homicide.

[298] We hired a bloods matter expert from the Kentucky New County Sheriff's Office.

[299] who specialized and had given lectures all across the country on proving what happened in the death scene by analyzing the blood cast off or the blood spatter on the walls in the surrounding area.

[300] We actually removed the door and the chair from the scene and it was taken to the prosecutor's office.

[301] This blood spatter expert met with us in the sheriff's office.

[302] the prosecutor's office presented his case.

[303] And at that time, the prosecutor was Terry Martin.

[304] He told us he just needed this much more for him to move ahead.

[305] We actually purchased a black powder pistol like Arthur bought in downtown Attica just a day or two before your mother's death.

[306] So that we can do ballistics on it and do a comparison.

[307] And in the meantime, we could never take enough evidence of our office, the coroner's office, or law enforcement couldn't supply him with enough evidence that he would file charges against Arthur Bans.

[308] I was contacted by the chief of police in Attica that Arthur Manz had been arrested and was being held in the Lake County Jail.

[309] We made arrangements for me to go up and interview him at the jail to try to get more information.

[310] And he was just a puke.

[311] He would not give up anything.

[312] He was just stone cold and uncooperative.

[313] I think that interview was recorded.

[314] We suspect Arthur did this, but your mother just.

[315] And so I contacted Harrison Steele benefits.

[316] about the beneficiaries and he told me when he murdered his girlfriend and he's still there up with a document that he would sign off on and have that life insurance out to the current prosecutor a suit of limitations for homicide truly believe arthur mans have any recollection of that night were you in the house when it happened no i wasn't but uh my mom had called me that same week and she was she had to hide outside of the house to talk of on the phone because if he was listening, you know, he was abusive.

[317] So she was telling me that she was going to pack up that week and leave, but she had to do it in secret.

[318] So that's how I knew like he had done it.

[319] I think he might be in jail in Lake County again right now.

[320] He's actually not.

[321] I found out he's not because a man messaged me on Facebook and we talked on the phone and I guess he's dating his mother and he's concerned and he wanted to know like my story and find out if It was true, and he wants my help, like, protecting his mother, essentially.

[322] Well, ask him if his mother's changed her life insurance, if his mother has life insurance, and make sure she hasn't changed the beneficiary over to him.

[323] Okay, I will.

[324] And here's the biggest problem.

[325] The expert that we have some blood spatter that died from cancer a few years ago.

[326] Oh, okay.

[327] Anything I can do personally to help for course.

[328] Okay.

[329] And if you could keep me updated, I would appreciate it.

[330] You have myself.

[331] The number I gave you is my cell phone number I'm in the next office.

[332] I don't if you haven't sought to tell you.

[333] Any like files that I could personally have that I could look at?

[334] I think you can read the apartment.

[335] I mean, there are some things that are there.

[336] Okay, thank you.

[337] The conversation essentially was Arthur, he bought the gun that killed my mom like a few days prior.

[338] He had tried to change her will to be where he was the beneficiary.

[339] a few days prior.

[340] And I guess she had a necklace and it had been ripped off her neck that night as well.

[341] And my grandpa says they still have it at the police station.

[342] They haven't given it back to him.

[343] He's asked for it time and time again from them.

[344] Everything pointed to murder, even on the death certificate, which I have, says murder.

[345] And all these things that apparently when that detective brought it to the DA at that time, the DA said, this isn't enough.

[346] What do you mean that isn't enough?

[347] I could not understand it.

[348] And then I was crying on the phone.

[349] I guess the detective probably felt bad.

[350] He was like, you know what?

[351] I'm going to bring this back to the DA.

[352] And I bet you we can get this taken care.

[353] But then I reached out the detective several more times because I was telling people like, he's reopening it and things are going to be taken care of.

[354] I even posted about it on Facebook.

[355] I had said after 10 years, my mom is finally getting justice.

[356] I reached out and I was like, so did you talk to him?

[357] He was like, I'm going to get to it.

[358] I would text him and text him and he just stopped responding and ghosted me. That's just really disappointing to get someone's whole.

[359] hopes up their mother is finally going to get some justice, and this man's finally going to go to jail, and he doesn't.

[360] My grandma had died by that point, and I was like, no one else is fighting for her, and I feel the need to fight.

[361] I could fight it some more.

[362] I definitely could.

[363] I don't know where you're supposed to go when the people who are supposed to help you and do their job aren't doing their job.

[364] The case is still open, yet they're not working on it.

[365] He's just free.

[366] The only thing I've seen is him get arrested for, like, drug or domestic violence.

[367] He's just there.

[368] Live in his life.

[369] What justice is there in the world when people like that just live free, no consequences.

[370] His name is very common.

[371] There's like a million Arthur Manns out there, but he's either in Indiana or Illinois right now.

[372] I'm pretty sure unless he moved.

[373] They're saying that they can't charge him.

[374] Why?

[375] Is it because of her history?

[376] They don't find her to be like a worthy enough victim.

[377] Potentially because she was like a drug addict.

[378] She had been arrested with Arthur for possession.

[379] At the end of the day, if no one's really pushing you to do it, some people aren't going to do it.

[380] My name is Jake.

[381] Me and Kristen met about four years ago.

[382] I got a job at a pizza shop.

[383] She was working there.

[384] She helped to train me. Maybe four months later, took her.

[385] and her son fishing, and after that, we were together.

[386] Chrison graduated college right before we got involved romantically.

[387] I was actually just an actual loser.

[388] I wouldn't doing anything with my life.

[389] I don't think I'd be here if it wasn't for her.

[390] I was a drug addict.

[391] Meeting her kind of gave me the motivation that made me want to actually build a life with somebody.

[392] She really is the most inspirational person I've ever met.

[393] She's such a good mom.

[394] The hardest working person I've ever met.

[395] I mean, I thought I was a hard worker and she just makes me feel ashamed.

[396] I had great parents growing up.

[397] Mine was more mental illness stuff.

[398] But I was in and out of like mental facilities, juvies, and correctional facilities when I was a teenager.

[399] First time I never went there.

[400] I was 14, so it's been over 10 years.

[401] In my opinion, maybe 75 % of the kids that were in there had very troubled homes.

[402] And then maybe the other 25 % there were people like me that just struggled with mental illness.

[403] or we're either self -medicating or hurt somebody.

[404] You run into a lot of people that have bad childhoods there, but nothing like Kristen, nothing even close to that.

[405] Kristen is like the exception to all that.

[406] I don't understand.

[407] Like she's a one in a million chance of someone having the life that she had and also turned out to be the most amazing person I've ever met.

[408] It's kind of hard to believe.

[409] The first time I remember she ever mentioned her dad, we were folding pizza boxes and just kind of in passing she had mentioned that her dad was a piece of shit and just probably like on the lookup on her face I could tell that she really meant it and that it was something that troubled her I don't think she got to too much detail about it I think she just kind of like wanted to tell me because we were getting more serious how did your communication continue after you no longer lived with your dad did you have periods of time where you wouldn't speak and then reconnect.

[410] I had reached out to him initially.

[411] I think I was like 13 or 14.

[412] He was so happy I was talking to me with posts pictures of me from my Facebook on his Facebook.

[413] He'd be like, my beautiful daughter.

[414] And he'd put my brothers in like my brother's daughter.

[415] I got to the point where I was like, I'll continue talking to you, but I want you to tell my brothers the truth.

[416] I don't care if you tell the police or anything, but I need them to know what you did to me was true.

[417] I don't want them thinking I'm a liar.

[418] Like it's ruined our relationship.

[419] And he just refused.

[420] he avoided the topic.

[421] He didn't want to reply in a way that made him look guilty.

[422] He'd be like, we need to leave the past in the past.

[423] And then I would stop talking him.

[424] Then I would talk to him again because I found out he had his son.

[425] I couldn't afford another child, but my dad was going to let him come live with me. That was most of the reason I stayed in touch.

[426] I was working three or four jobs at one point to support myself and my son at the time because his dad wasn't helping at all.

[427] I wish I would have done it even though I couldn't really.

[428] Is his mother in the house too?

[429] No, his mother, according to my father, is a drug addict.

[430] So he's solely raising this child?

[431] Solely.

[432] And that's horrific.

[433] I would FaceTime him with my son when my son was like three or four.

[434] And he seemed happy, but you just don't know.

[435] I worry for him.

[436] Like, I hope he's okay.

[437] Right before my second child was born.

[438] So, 2022.

[439] I had actually made a plan to go up there to, like, meet my brother for the first time in person.

[440] potentially bring him back.

[441] I ended up not wanting to like bring my child around him.

[442] So he was trying to guilt trip me, which didn't work.

[443] He's like, my son is so disappointed.

[444] He was crying because his sister didn't come.

[445] And I just kind of stopped responding after a while.

[446] Six months before she was born, my daughter, he said, congratulations on the soon -to -be new arrival.

[447] We love you all.

[448] His son, spend video chatting a lot, but turns out he missed you guys.

[449] So when are you guys available?

[450] Let me know.

[451] Five days later, it looks like I said, thank you.

[452] I would like to speak with him more, but have a harder time speaking to you these days than others.

[453] I have a son who is as old as I was when I was starting to be horribly abused for years and will soon have a daughter.

[454] I would find it easier to do so if I thought you would stop, but I don't know what would make you.

[455] I wish I did.

[456] I hope one day you do.

[457] It does so much more damage than you can even imagine.

[458] I know you don't like to think about it, but I still have nightmares to this day to the point where I have to take medication to help prevent myself from waking up and sweats and screams.

[459] I tell you this in the hopes that you think twice before doing it again.

[460] And maybe when I feel like you're truly sorry and ready to be a better person, I'll be ready to talk more.

[461] I hope the best for my brother and hope you'll do what's right.

[462] And he responded a month later and said, busy with trying to get in hours at work and dealing with health issue in case it progressed further.

[463] Been a tad peaceful since his mother got six months in jail.

[464] I've dealt with switching B -day party dates to accommodate her and foster grandparents and family causing none of his friends to be able to make the change, and it's happened more than once.

[465] His mother even tried to get me to forfeit my rights to sell him to her foster sister and her brother for a mere $2 ,500.

[466] He was such a sweet boy until she took off with him and his sister for nine months before.

[467] I got him.

[468] She abandoned the sister after only three weeks.

[469] Now she tried to make a deal with a friend of hers who took her younger two from her to try to help her to get the other two.

[470] But it backfired since she wasn't supposed to be living under the same roofers her children that were taken away.

[471] I may not make the kind of money I once did or have a lot of the luxuries, but we get by.

[472] He loves school and really enjoys boys and girls club.

[473] I'm trying my best to be the best parent I can be for him.

[474] Been a long road getting to where I'm at.

[475] How I'm not interested in living in my past, as future is keeping me pretty busy, trying to believe I won't lose my battle with cancer, as so many of my family has done.

[476] But when it's my time, it's my time, and nothing will change that.

[477] My response was, this response with no accountability does not surprise me, I expected it.

[478] You choose not to live in the past because no one who has done what you have done can think they're a good person.

[479] You raped your own daughter since she could walk while she cried and begged you to stop, among other girls, some of which you made me hold their hands.

[480] You can live in your future, but the truth is you should be in jail for the absolute hell I went through because of you and solely you.

[481] The father should protect their children, not hurt them, and then pretend they never did the horrendous abhorrent things you have.

[482] I don't care for your pity party.

[483] But I love how he tried to, like, oh, I have cancer.

[484] He definitely doesn't have anything.

[485] If you truly didn't do those things, he'd be like, I can't believe you're still lying about this, Christa.

[486] He doesn't even have the nerve to do that.

[487] When I read that message, I'm like, no, we're in there.

[488] Is there any accountability?

[489] I'm not surprised at all.

[490] I'm Dan Tibersky.

[491] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[492] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[493] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[494] She's like, I can't.

[495] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[496] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[497] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[498] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[499] Well, you were holding something back intentionally.

[500] Yeah, yeah.

[501] Well, yeah.

[502] No, it's hysteria.

[503] It's all in your head.

[504] It's not physical.

[505] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[506] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[507] Or is it something else entirely?

[508] Something's wrong here.

[509] Something's not right.

[510] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[511] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[512] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[513] You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[514] What made you decide to share your TikTok and what was that experience like for you?

[515] It was because of that message I sent him where he took no accountability.

[516] That was my last ditch effort to be like, let's see if you have some humanity in you.

[517] And I was like, you know what?

[518] I'm just going to put it out there.

[519] People need to know.

[520] I put it out there like, hey, please stop letting this man watch or come near your children.

[521] I know he seems like the most wonderful man in the world because he's very charming and manipulative.

[522] but he's not.

[523] You need to be so careful with him.

[524] You used his real name in the TikTok?

[525] Yes.

[526] And I put a picture of him.

[527] Did he respond when you sent the message and you're just basically like, of course, you take no accountability?

[528] No, that was it.

[529] And I don't think he saw my TikTok originally because I unfriended him and all that.

[530] But then my friend, who I loved dearly, she went and found all of his friends on Facebook and sent my TikTok to all of them, including his long -lost sister he had just gotten in contact with to.

[531] years prior who he was so excited to be in contact with.

[532] I'm sure he got some messages.

[533] So he blocked me after that.

[534] I don't think he expects me to go on this podcast or he definitely didn't expect me to make a TikTok.

[535] So I'm glad that he blocked me after that because I'm like people are going to know who you are.

[536] That only got like 13 ,000 views.

[537] I hope he's scared.

[538] I hope he doesn't even know about it.

[539] So he doesn't have time to somehow make up some lies to counteract this in advance.

[540] I've kind of been an open person, but like I wasn't one to really put that out there.

[541] I used to be really embarrassed.

[542] And that's why I applied.

[543] Something was wrong.

[544] I need him out there.

[545] People need to know the truth about him because otherwise what happened to me will have happened for nothing, essentially.

[546] Like, yes, I'm a good mother, despite all that.

[547] And I love my kids.

[548] And that made me probably a better mother because of what I went through.

[549] I did what I could.

[550] I just feel like I'm not doing enough.

[551] He's on no sex registry, yet he has this prevalent history of doing this over and over again, but if you were to look him up, there's nothing that would really tie him to that, except the charge.

[552] You can see the charge of child molestation, but you see that it was dismissed, so you could look at that and be like, oh, it was a misunderstanding.

[553] In the CPS report, it says, my grandma, Miss Roberts said that she is willing to petition for custody and will do whatever it takes to keep her granddaughter safe.

[554] Miss Roberts said that Ronnie has been in trouble before.

[555] She said that the victim was six years old, and there was a hung jury, so he got away with it.

[556] Ms. Roberts said that there was a 15 -year -old girl that Ronnie would write letters to while misblood, my mom, was pregnant with her youngest child.

[557] Ms. Roberts said that Ronnie's cousin's daughter, the one who was 10, said that Ronnie touched her, but that uncle said that he did not believe it.

[558] Kristen's mother wanted custody of Kristen because she was afraid that Ronnie would do that.

[559] So my mother, she definitely had an idea that it was happening.

[560] Miss Roberts said that Kristen's mother was murdered because she was trying to leave her boyfriend so she could get Kristen back.

[561] Ms. Roberts said that the judge ordered Mr. Blood not to take the children out of Lake County, which he did.

[562] I guess they tried to reach out to the caseworker for the 2002 case, but they were never able to get in contact with her.

[563] I had talked to the police officer a few weeks ago at this point, who was in charge of my case.

[564] He did a horrible job.

[565] He didn't own that, but that's what my family who was in the courtroom said.

[566] They asked him, like, did you investigate this instance that she said happened?

[567] And he was like, no. I called him.

[568] He finally calls me back.

[569] I'm like, oh, do you remember me?

[570] And he, like, pretended to remember me, which becomes very obvious, five seconds into the conversation.

[571] So I was like, okay, do you remember what happened with that case?

[572] And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[573] I was like, do you remember why he didn't get convicted?

[574] And he was like, oh, you know, I think we had the wrong guy.

[575] And I actually ended up being somebody else who did it.

[576] I was like, no, no, no, no. I'm going to be understanding because this was a long time ago.

[577] But no, this was my dad who did it, and yes, it very much was him.

[578] I told him to look into it, and he said that he did some research, who knows if he did, and he said that because my dad wasn't convicted, in Tennessee, you can technically have any court records expunged on your case after a certain amount of time.

[579] So there's absolutely no record of my case, which I find so weird.

[580] I understand he wasn't convicted.

[581] How is he allowed to just have that wiped clean?

[582] How did you feel after the conversation with him?

[583] I don't know.

[584] I didn't sit right with me. If you don't remember me, don't try to like pull something out of your ass.

[585] He just didn't sound too concerned.

[586] I was like, you know, he's still doing this to this day, right?

[587] This just happened to another little girl that he watched.

[588] And he was like, oh, no, I was like, oh, no, you don't work in whatever county it was.

[589] I think my dad lives in Madison, Tennessee now.

[590] And I was like, it's happening there.

[591] And he was like, oh, no, but I have contacts there.

[592] And I was like, well, if he could look into it, let me know.

[593] And he kind of like disregarded that when he called.

[594] me back a few days later.

[595] And he's like, oh, no, I haven't really looked into that just yet, but I will.

[596] Just was not concerned.

[597] It was like, sir, be concerned if I'm telling you this is still happening.

[598] One of the most incredible pieces about your story and your resilience is your career in child advocacy and the work you do now.

[599] Can you explain a bit to the listeners about what it is that you do?

[600] I went and got my undergrad in psychology and criminal justice.

[601] I originally tried to become a cop.

[602] and wanted to be eventually in a detective role where I'm specifically helping domestic violence or children.

[603] That didn't work out.

[604] While I was in college, I ended up working at mental hospitals with my history with eating disorders.

[605] I also ended up working at an eating recovery center for a while, which was actually my favorite job to this day.

[606] I loved working with the kids there.

[607] And if I could go back there, I will.

[608] The youngest we ever had there was 10 and the oldest 17.

[609] I also worked with adults, but the kids is where I really loved being during the meals, because you know those can be the hardest times.

[610] I would just do like goofy things with them.

[611] I would just sing this song to them.

[612] I sounded ridiculous, but like it made them laugh.

[613] So it was nice to like be that little bit of sunshine for the children there.

[614] And I end up only leaving there because I got into APS, adult protective services.

[615] It was hard because the hours were long when you have kids and you're trying to do another job at the same time.

[616] I just was so burnt out from working the three or four jobs and doing my undergrad at the same time.

[617] I was like, I should really take a break.

[618] I started doing antidepressants around that time and I ended up getting serotonin syndrome.

[619] So I was working my fifth 12 -hour shift straight and I was just going insane.

[620] I almost thought about checking myself into a facility because I just felt so awful and it turned out that's what it was.

[621] I went to APS.

[622] I did that for a little bit, but again, it wasn't exactly what I wanted.

[623] I did work CPS right before I got pregnant, all my pregnancy, and right after I had her, and I really tried.

[624] But there was just some things with it.

[625] CPS just needs more funny.

[626] People would tell me left and right, like, you get paid to take away my kids.

[627] I'm like, no, I really don't.

[628] There was a girl.

[629] She was nonverbal and autistic.

[630] The report was that she got punched in the face by her dad.

[631] And I interviewed all the kids.

[632] And they were all like, yep, that happened.

[633] It's happened more than once.

[634] They were like, well, does she have any marks or bruises?

[635] I was like, no, because this happened last week.

[636] Well, did she make an outcry?

[637] No, she's nonverbal.

[638] And because of that, there was nothing they would let me do, which I just found insane.

[639] And then from there, I went to interview the mother, and the mother said, the kids are remembering it wrong.

[640] Like, a lot of my kids have chronic nose, please.

[641] I interviewed the dad, and I guess she forgot to tell him the lie she made up because when I asked him about that, he said, no, none of my kids get chronic nose please.

[642] Even with that information, they had me close the case because there was nothing that they could let me do.

[643] So CPS, there's something I has to change there.

[644] I was freshly postpartum having a newborn with how little I was actually able to do to help the children that I was working with.

[645] I ended up being like, I need to prioritize my family.

[646] And now I'm kind of just trying to figure out what I want to do.

[647] I would like to find another path where I'm helping children again.

[648] I wouldn't mind going back to the eating recovery center.

[649] Since I am a surrogate, I'll have a bit more freedom to, like, kind of do what I want to do and not have to worry about money as much.

[650] I also might go and get my master's, but that's kind of where I am career -wise.

[651] I just want to do something where I'm able to actually help.

[652] How do you come to terms with a childhood like what you experienced?

[653] what was your healing journey like?

[654] It was very long.

[655] I was definitely not the best person at times.

[656] I had a very bad attachment.

[657] I'm very anxious.

[658] So that made me a very bad girlfriend at times.

[659] And I schools I would be very suspicious because that's all I saw.

[660] It was my dad being suspicious as my mom growing up.

[661] And that made me very even anxiously attached to my friends.

[662] I felt easily ignored, even if they weren't doing anything to me. Like I would feel like they were.

[663] when I moved my grandma, she was like, you need therapy, you need to go.

[664] And I just did not want to go.

[665] I did not want to talk about it.

[666] It wasn't until after I had kids that I really started to heal.

[667] I don't know what it is about becoming a mom, but that turned me into a way better person.

[668] Eventually, I did become a better partner.

[669] I still have some anxious type things, but I'm a lot better than I used to be.

[670] I'm more calm.

[671] Antidepressants definitely helped.

[672] I got married young.

[673] And that's, That was not a good marriage, and it was also traumatizing in its own way.

[674] But at least I learned what not to look for in a partner.

[675] And now being with someone who is a loving father and literally loves their child more than anybody, that's also healing to see someone love their children the same way I do.

[676] And doing this, honestly, is very healing.

[677] Because I didn't really understand certain things about myself until I did this.

[678] Things that should have been obvious, but they weren't.

[679] Whenever you hear these stories and think about people who have gone through these things, you're not like seeing it like, oh, as a person that just has to take it day by day.

[680] I've seen like a shift in how she perceives herself and how she's really come into her own and gain this agency.

[681] I just love seeing my friends blossom and grow like that.

[682] Whenever I moved out here from Texas, I was like, I hope she's okay.

[683] I hope she can stand on her own.

[684] We had been rocks for each other for so long.

[685] I think she's more open about it than she used to be.

[686] She's definitely a fighter.

[687] She has that renewed sense of, like, energy to proceed the case than she did.

[688] Whenever I first met her, she was definitely going through a lot, watching her, like, meander, and then finally get to this place where she's really being valued in her current job.

[689] And I think she's always wanted to give back as best she could to kick.

[690] kids are experiencing the same as she was, but it's great to see that she is making progress in that aspect.

[691] She's thriving.

[692] I was conditioned where this is normal.

[693] This is what parents do to their kids.

[694] If I would have had someone to say like, hey, this isn't normal.

[695] This is abuse and you need to tell someone and it's not your fault, then it could have been completely different.

[696] I'm always going to be a little fucked up, but I'm always going to have a little bit of trust issues.

[697] While it's a lot better than it used to be.

[698] The way we were wired as a kid, it takes a lot to unlearn certain things.

[699] I've never viewed myself as a survivor until I talked to you, so it is nice to have a different way of putting it.

[700] I started listening to Something Was Wrong probably three years ago.

[701] What really got me going to send in my submissions to something was wrong and other podcasts was actually Sarah Turney, her Voices for Justice Podcasts.

[702] A lot of different podcasts are not victim focused.

[703] You and her very much are.

[704] Y 'all are drawing attention to people whose voices really do need to be heard.

[705] So I just really appreciate that.

[706] I appreciate you so much for saying that.

[707] I don't know how to thank you for the amount of emotional energy and vulnerability that you have given, what you've lived through.

[708] It's absolute hell.

[709] It makes you question humanity itself.

[710] I just think about all of the people that you're going to help by sharing and by outing this person.

[711] And I'm very, very grateful to you for that.

[712] Thank you again.

[713] You're one of the reasons I do this.

[714] You made me more brave.

[715] Your podcast is always going to be one of my favorites for that very reason, even if you hadn't given me the opportunity to tell my story, but I really appreciate it.

[716] Next time, on something was wrong.

[717] I opened up to her and I told her what I had done over the summer.

[718] I was crying because I was in a really dark place.

[719] I just remember her looking at me and being so stone cold.

[720] She honestly looked at me like she hated me. I just wasn't expecting that sort of reception from somebody who is a Christian leader at Bethel.

[721] I thought we were supposed to be loving and she looked at me like she was disgusted.

[722] And I was crying and she said, you're crying and you want me to feel bad for you.

[723] You are trying to manipulate me, and I don't feel bad for you at all.

[724] The entire congregation got totally silent because a lot of people knew that we were dating.

[725] Ted said, well, yeah, my girlfriend's name is Jubilee.

[726] And the prophet started laughing, and he said, well, God is giving you this girl.

[727] And cheers erupt throughout the entire auditorium.

[728] The residents who were from Reading really hated Bethel.

[729] They hated that we were taking over their city.

[730] And in hindsight, I totally see it because you couldn't go somewhere without running into a Bethel person.

[731] There's Bethel students everywhere.

[732] He ended up emailing everybody saying that he was also somebody who was supposed to be a student and that he had arrived to Bethel a few weeks early because he wanted to get settled in the area and that he had seen a lot of questionable things at Bethel.

[733] He sent out a mass email, essentially accusing Bethel of teaching false words and saying that everybody should cancel being a student and go back home.

[734] He basically accused Bethel of being a cult.

[735] Thank you so much for listening.

[736] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[737] Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media Production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[738] If you'd like to support the show for you.

[739] further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[740] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[741] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[742] Thank you so much.

[743] If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.

[744] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon music.

[745] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.