Richard Branson

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather.

[2] I'm joined by Mr. Mouse.

[3] There we go.

[4] Much better.

[5] Peek behind the curtain.

[6] I was hoping to have the Christmas sleighs, bells that we have, they're gone.

[7] Instead, this thing, whatever this is, what is it?

[8] That's almost like my turkey.

[9] It's a Christmas...

[10] It's the sound of Santa's sleigh.

[11] Oh.

[12] When he's got a bell.

[13] bad runner.

[14] Engine.

[15] Right.

[16] Right.

[17] He needs to take it to the shop.

[18] Yeah.

[19] And not the elf shop.

[20] They don't know what the fuck they're doing.

[21] No, they don't.

[22] Mechanical stuff.

[23] Before we tell you who is our esteemed guest, want to announce something incredibly exciting.

[24] Very.

[25] Listen, by now, hopefully you've seen some photos we've posted of the merch that we just dropped.

[26] Barring a Christmas miracle, which is possible.

[27] Yeah.

[28] Christmas miracles happen all the time.

[29] Always possible.

[30] Always surrounding Christmas.

[31] They won't arrive in time for Christmas.

[32] But you can pre -order, and you could give somebody this with the evidence of the pre -order.

[33] This is what I like to do.

[34] I like to give like a small gift, like a chocolate bar.

[35] And then tape to it is a pitcher of the sweater, sweatshirt.

[36] Yes.

[37] And this is coming.

[38] Like, you know.

[39] Oh, yeah.

[40] A little sample.

[41] Teaser.

[42] Teaser.

[43] Yeah.

[44] And again, if you look at the pictures and you're like, what is this?

[45] that, what we know about you is, you're not listening to the fact check.

[46] So, A, you're in huge trouble.

[47] B, that is the robot we hear from so often.

[48] So just really quickly.

[49] Remind us.

[50] Do you want to buy some merch dice?

[51] Do you like staying cozy with a picture of me on the front?

[52] It says, welcome, welcome.

[53] I sure hope that's true and not excluding robots.

[54] I love him so much.

[55] They're very limited.

[56] They're not going to make anymore.

[57] That's it.

[58] That's it.

[59] Oh, my gosh.

[60] So it's one and done.

[61] There's going to be so valuable.

[62] Some of the speculators on the commodities exchange.

[63] What are they saying?

[64] They're saying that this sweater may be worth.

[65] We're not promising anything.

[66] But upwards of $16 million a year from now.

[67] That makes sense to me. It does, right.

[68] Well, think about it in the four GTs.

[69] The four GTs, they sold only a thousand of them over four years.

[70] It's actually five years.

[71] They went to 1 ,200.

[72] What point is, those things already almost tripled in value.

[73] I'm getting, I feel like I need two.

[74] Two of the sweaters?

[75] Yeah.

[76] You can't take them out of circulation.

[77] We don't get any.

[78] No, yes I do.

[79] I at least get one, but I need two, maybe three.

[80] I'm going to get one to wear and one to keep on ice to sell as my retirement plan.

[81] You should too.

[82] Everyone make a run on it by three.

[83] Save two, wear one.

[84] Anywho, today we have Richard Branson on.

[85] Richard Branson, an entrepreneur and founder of the Virgin Group.

[86] Of course, that includes Virgin Records, Virgin Airlines, the hotel empire, the guy's flown across the Atlantic on a hot air balloon.

[87] He's gone to space.

[88] The guy's been up in space.

[89] Nuts.

[90] I was about to say first guy we've interviewed that's been in space, not true.

[91] Not true.

[92] He has a new master class out called disruptive entrepreneurship.

[93] So if you have master class and if not get it, and you can watch Richard Branson instruct you on disruptive entrepreneurship out right now on HBO Branson, a documentary, a multi -part documentary exploring his life.

[94] So this is a great primer for that.

[95] Please enjoy Richard Branson.

[96] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[97] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[98] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[99] Hello, Mr. Branson, can you hear us?

[100] Hi, I'm Monica.

[101] How are you?

[102] Hi.

[103] How are you?

[104] I'm good.

[105] I can see a very dark side to that face, but you can hear me, all right?

[106] This is the main thing, isn't it, on this one?

[107] We can both see you and hear you expertly.

[108] Are you in BVI?

[109] I am actually sitting in a new Virgin Hotel in New York.

[110] Ooh.

[111] Oh.

[112] Which we're opening in six weeks or so, it's just off Times Square.

[113] So this is one of our bedroom.

[114] I think, yes, it is one of the bedrooms.

[115] I like the artwork.

[116] Yes, I was going to say very cool artwork comes with this.

[117] Now, when you check into one of your own properties, do you go ahead and take the gangster suite, or do you play it middle of the road?

[118] Are you trying to figure out what the customer thinks or what you think?

[119] Well, I just flew Virgin Atlantic over here from the UK, and I booked an economy and put myself with an upgrade if there was space.

[120] Wow.

[121] A seat became available, so I ended up in upper class.

[122] Hold on.

[123] Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[124] What's so great is, you know, when you're in the terminal and they're reading like the standby passengers, there would be nothing better than hearing that you were like 10th on the standby list and you own the airline.

[125] That's so great.

[126] I'd love to see that.

[127] It's important to stand in the queues and I think there's nothing worse than seeing some pompous person jump a queue.

[128] I must tell you a funny story.

[129] We have an airline in Australia.

[130] They had a technical problem and these people were queuing up.

[131] to get refunds or something.

[132] And this guy jumped the queue.

[133] And the Virgin Australia girl said, I'm really sorry, sir, but you really mustn't jump the queue.

[134] And he said, do you know who I am?

[135] She paused and she got onto the loudspeaker and she broadcasts to the whole airport.

[136] There's a young man of Gate 13 who doesn't know who he is.

[137] Somebody would like to come and claim him.

[138] Oh, my God.

[139] Oh, that's fantastic.

[140] May we poach this?

[141] employee all of you.

[142] I feel like we need her in this organization.

[143] Seems like something I might do.

[144] You've got to let me deliver the punchline.

[145] Oh, so sorry.

[146] So he turned to her and went, fuck you.

[147] And she went, I'm sorry, sir, but you have to get in line for that, too.

[148] Oh, yes.

[149] I love her.

[150] Is her name Donette Rickles?

[151] You won't get anywhere with her, I'm afraid.

[152] She's too smart for all of us.

[153] Yeah, that person needs to be immediately promoted to head of all things.

[154] Yeah, exactly.

[155] Okay, so, you know, what's good for you, though, you're lucky.

[156] You've built companies you'd actually want to enjoy.

[157] So Ray Crock, he famously spent most of his time just dropping in on McDonald's all throughout the country and making notes.

[158] But here this guy, he had to eat at McDonald's every single meal to do that.

[159] And by the way, I love McDonald's, but I'm not trying to eat there seven days a week.

[160] You at least are enjoying something that you would otherwise be enjoying anyways.

[161] Yeah, I really ought to check out a spaceship.

[162] Pop into space and do you make sure it's all okay.

[163] I've been very lucky with our companies.

[164] They're a lot of fun.

[165] You know, I mean, like Wednesday morning, I go on a Virgin cruise ship for a couple of days, and we've got 1 ,200 wonderful staff in each of those ships.

[166] They're from 82 different countries.

[167] They're just fun.

[168] They're very virgin.

[169] It's a real pleasure to be with them.

[170] And our team create the kinds of experiences that I like.

[171] And I think if I like it, it's like the other people who like it as well.

[172] And I think that's why an airline like Virgin Atlantic survive for 38 years because, you know, people like to fly it.

[173] they get a good experience.

[174] Okay, I want to start.

[175] It's almost as if you should disclose if you're invested in a company before you promote it.

[176] We have a mutual friend, Shannon Sedgwick Davis.

[177] Yeah, I know Shannon very, very well.

[178] She's a very special person.

[179] Very special person, very good friend of my wives.

[180] I've been the recipient of her cultural capital, I guess.

[181] I got to be in Africa at the same time with her, which if you can ever overlap that, that's the way to do it.

[182] She knows how to get everywhere in land everywhere, in Africa.

[183] I love her, and I'm curious what it is about her that you feel so safe with, or that you've entrusted with such a big focus of your philanthropic life.

[184] I don't think you can say no to Shannon.

[185] She does everything for the right reasons.

[186] She is bold and she's brave.

[187] She'll go into the depths of the Congo to try to take out the nastiest individual in Africa who does the most horrendous things to kids and their mums and so on.

[188] She rang me three months ago and said, Richard, you're coming to Ukraine with me to see President Zelenskyy and to see firsthand what's going on.

[189] And three days later, I'm on a train heading into Kiev.

[190] And she's absolutely determined to sort out any problems in this world.

[191] She gives her life to it.

[192] And yet she's got kids and her own family as well.

[193] Yeah.

[194] You know, she took Howard Buffett into Ukraine and he's put up most of his fortune into trying to help people of Ukraine.

[195] And if Shannon hadn't done it, that wouldn't have happened.

[196] And I suspect if there's ever peace in Ukraine, Shannon would be one of the reasons that it comes about.

[197] So when you got there, what did you see that I'm not seen on the news?

[198] Was there anything that immediately kind of struck you that was different about viewing it from the inside than what we're seeing?

[199] Do you know, I remember when COVID was happening, we all thought, we're never going to have to fly again.

[200] We know how to do everything from our armchairs.

[201] But the truth is that going and seeing people face to face, it's a completely different experience than doing it on a Zoom call or whatever.

[202] I mean, I was lucky enough to spend two hours with Shannon with lunch with a foreign minister of Ukraine.

[203] And he told us things that you don't see on the news.

[204] But also we ended up getting a list of things that needed to be done.

[205] And we came back and we've been wading through that list, trying to be as helpful as we can.

[206] And we also built trust.

[207] We run an organisation called The Elders Together, a wonderful group of wise men and women who do try to bring peace to conflict situations.

[208] And in order to get peace, it helps if you've got good contacts, say, with the Russians.

[209] And if you've got good contact, say, with the Ukrainians, and you know people personally, ultimately, that's the only way you're actually going to be able to maybe help bring a war to an end.

[210] The eldest remit is they've succeeded in Kenya.

[211] They've succeeded in other places, and they failed in other places.

[212] But hopefully they and other organizations can contribute in this situation.

[213] Do you sit down for one of those lunches with a foreign minister and feel fraudulent at all?

[214] Do you start by going, why would I have this person's valuable time?

[215] I can run an airline in a record label and a teen magazine.

[216] Do you start with feelings of fraudulence?

[217] Or have you gone through this so many times that you are compensated?

[218] in the fact that you will see some way you can be helpful despite not being seasoned in global politics or an ambassador.

[219] Do you already have that confidence in yourself or do you start with some trepidation?

[220] So I may be being precocious in saying this, but if you look at the politicians that would normally be sitting down with other politicians, A politician is normally in his job for two years, maybe three years before.

[221] And if they're good, they're then moved on to another position in government.

[222] And if they're really good within a year, they moved on to another position and so on and so forth.

[223] So their knowledge of any particular area is limited.

[224] As an entrepreneur, I'd been at it for 55 years.

[225] I've traveled the world.

[226] You know, if you've asked me which countries is still got capital punishment or which countries and still anti -gay people or which countries have draconian drug policies, I ought to be able to answer you straight away with an accurate answer because I'm interested in what's going on in the world.

[227] And like Shannon, I want to stop some of these idiotic policies that exist in different parts of the world and see if I can use my knowledge and influence to do so.

[228] I have an advantage over some politicians in that I can pick up the phone and pretty well get through to anybody in the world.

[229] and it's very, very rare that somebody wouldn't take the call.

[230] And that means you can cut through the red tape.

[231] You know, when I got back from Ukraine, I rang the head of NATO, for instance, and he took the calls straight away.

[232] So that's one of the advantages of being well -known.

[233] And obviously, you need a good reputation as well, which is very important.

[234] Okay, so first of all, I watched your master class.

[235] It's absolutely spectacular.

[236] I really, really loved it.

[237] For many reasons, not just the advice you're giving out, but the history, watching the real footage of these eras.

[238] which you built these different industries as someone who loves history.

[239] It's just really well done and well produced.

[240] And I want to get into some of the tenants that you offer to people who watch it.

[241] But I also have like three things that I wanted to know that I didn't get answers for.

[242] So I was very selfishly motivated.

[243] First of all, I just want to bond on the fact.

[244] I was cripplingly dyslexic.

[245] So when you talk about the blackboard, I fucking love it.

[246] So the blackboard, if you're dyslexic and you're a kid, it's just a black hole.

[247] And everyone's staring at it.

[248] And everyone's somehow seeing the magic eye picture and you're not.

[249] And it's pretty fucking boring.

[250] That's the main attraction for most of schooling.

[251] And if you have no access to it, you have no purchase with it, the whole experience is kind of a bizarre void.

[252] But I think you and I both have come to really have a lot of gratitude for being dyslexic.

[253] And I think it definitely bestows some superpowers.

[254] So I would love to know, when you were in those moments, we did not have the term dyslexia.

[255] No one came, grabbed you and said, hey, you've got a great IQ, but you're going to stumble on these things.

[256] What was your own assessment of yourself in that period?

[257] I remember personally just going, I don't feel stupid.

[258] Yet the proof is quite clear that I am.

[259] It's so confusing.

[260] What was your experience?

[261] Almost identical to you.

[262] You were called stupid, but I could add up, I could subtract.

[263] could just about multiply.

[264] Just about.

[265] And I could just about divide.

[266] And then they spend years on top of that trying to teach you things which are completely irrelevant to 90 % of kids.

[267] I mean, all you need to know is add up, subtract, multiply and divide.

[268] And once you get onto the more complicated subjects, I just sat there thinking, I don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[269] And I just started planning things I was interested in.

[270] You know, I was interested in the fact that there was a unjust war going on, the Vietnamese war.

[271] I was interested in the fact that the education system was ridiculous.

[272] There are lots of things I love to learn about, but not the things that the mass teachers are teaching me or the French teachers are teaching me. But because of it, I ended up starting a magazine which gave young people a voice out of the frustration.

[273] When you're self -evaluating, right, I'm just wondering if you were doing what I was doing, which is, okay, I'm failing all this stuff.

[274] Everyone's getting this.

[275] I'm not.

[276] But on the playground when I chat with my peers, I'm not being out -maneuvered.

[277] I do think it put a heightened sense of me evaluating myself relative to other people because I wasn't getting the outside metric.

[278] Yeah, I think that education needs to be much more adaptable to the individual.

[279] There are some individuals that love geometry.

[280] They're going to be our new scientists or they're going to be building our new spaceships and the mass teachers should be concentrating on those people.

[281] They shouldn't be wasting their time on people like you or me. When I'm interested in something, I lap it up.

[282] I love the detail.

[283] I'll take notes.

[284] I'll learn more.

[285] But when I'm not interested in something, why waste my time?

[286] And why waste those people who should be spending the time with these teachers?

[287] And education needs to be more adaptable.

[288] Okay, so the item that's not discussed in the master class that I'm interested in is basically fuel source.

[289] You have seemingly an inexhaustible fuel source.

[290] And I have to imagine that fuel source has had to evolve over.

[291] over the last 55 years.

[292] And I wonder, for starters, if dyslexia is a fuel source.

[293] Again, for me, hugely so.

[294] I had a chip on my shoulder that everyone thought I was dumb, and I really set out on a mission to learn as much as I could to disprove these people and on accident.

[295] Ended up learning a lot of things, which is great.

[296] But that was one fuel source.

[297] You're such an overall generous guy.

[298] You do not appear to have a chip on your shoulder, but did you have any of that residual chip on your shoulder that I certainly did?

[299] I wouldn't necessarily say I had a chip on the shoulder.

[300] What I did realize was that I needed to surround myself with people who were better at me at things which I was not good at because of my dyslexia.

[301] And so if you're running a magazine and you're editing a magazine, oh, I'm getting some tea here.

[302] Thank you very much.

[303] Oh, see the service already?

[304] We like the service at the new hotel.

[305] Here you are.

[306] Monica, would you like some tea?

[307] Yes, I love tea.

[308] What if he spit it out right now in school?

[309] screamed at the person, this is never going to cut it.

[310] Yes, I think it forced me to get great people around me. And I'm lucky.

[311] I learned at a young age the importance of being really good with people and bringing out the best in people and praising people and all these sorts of things, which partly in my upbringing, I suspect, that's enabled me to then think about the bigger picture and I've done a lot of things in my lifetime.

[312] You know, it's been a lot of fun.

[313] And we've just thrown ourselves at a lot of different areas where we felt we had the expertise and the people around me to take them on and just put out a blank sheet of paper and give it a go.

[314] Okay, so for people who are not already historians of you, you've already mentioned it, but I think, yeah, the student magazine would probably blow people's mind.

[315] You start that when you're 15 years old?

[316] Yeah.

[317] It's called Student Magazine.

[318] Just to be original.

[319] Quite literal.

[320] They ended up copying you in the 2000s with comedies, wedding crashers, Hangover.

[321] You were way ahead of the curve.

[322] Very literal.

[323] I've been there on the Hangover, yeah.

[324] I'm sure you have to.

[325] Yes, yes.

[326] Okay, so you start that magazine.

[327] You end up leaving school very early, 15 or 16, to dedicate yourself to that.

[328] Now, again, here's the through line of your master class.

[329] Almost every piece of advice you give, there is this very predictable part of your personality that I think is quintessential.

[330] You pick up the phone and you start calling people.

[331] You don't know what the fuck you're doing.

[332] You want to put out a magazine, you start thinking, well, I got to sell some ads, right?

[333] And so you get on the phone and you actually end up selling some ads prior to actually having a magazine.

[334] Is that the order of events?

[335] Yeah.

[336] In those days, you had to have a coin box in the school where you put money in.

[337] And I'd ring Coca -Cola and I would somehow learn the art of bullshit quite early on that Pepsi had taken a full page and maybe you'd like to have one as well.

[338] And somehow I managed to get three or four thousand dollars worth of advertising sold, which enabled me to know that I could.

[339] pay for the printing and the paper manufacturing.

[340] And so I quit school at 15 and went off to run it with the headmaster saying, you're either going to go to prison or you're going to become a millionaire.

[341] I'm not quite sure which, but good luck.

[342] He was wrong about both.

[343] Wrong about, yes.

[344] Billionaire.

[345] Yes, yes, not in prison and surpassed million.

[346] You're a human, right?

[347] So you pick up the phone.

[348] You're filled with some anxiety now.

[349] Like, oh, my God, I'm 15.

[350] I don't even really know what I'm selling them.

[351] I don't know what the pricing for this is.

[352] Everyone has that voice.

[353] Or are you completely devoid of it?

[354] I guess the thing I'm most interested in is how do you talk yourself beyond the voice that says you really don't have any business calling this person?

[355] So I didn't really have any anxiety.

[356] The advantage of starting a business when you're young is you've got nothing to lose.

[357] You haven't got a partner, a girlfriend, a boyfriend, you haven't got a mortgage.

[358] You've just got the phones you're putting in the phone box.

[359] And I found a way around that as well.

[360] One day I put the money in.

[361] And I didn't get through.

[362] So I rang up the opposite.

[363] and I said, I'm really sorry, but I couldn't get through to this number.

[364] And she said, don't worry, I'll put you through.

[365] And then from then on, I just rang up the operator and said, I'd lost the money.

[366] And she put me through.

[367] So my secretary was the operator and free telephone calls.

[368] And it sounded a lot better than click, click, click, click, click as you put the money in.

[369] Has it gotten harder then?

[370] Is it gotten harder to make the calls that used to be easier?

[371] Because now you do have things to lose.

[372] No, because the calls I'm making now are more to do.

[373] with our philanthropic side.

[374] I mean, like we've been trying to get a ban on the killing of sharks and get CITES I one protection for sharks.

[375] And I was talking with President Trudeau in Canada, and he became very supportive.

[376] Two days ago, we got a ban on the killing of some of the key shark species in the world.

[377] And that's really important because shark finning, which is a horrible thing that happens to about 75 million sharks a year, is that sharks are caught, they cut the fin off, They throw the shark alive back into the water to die.

[378] And the fin goes as shark fin soup in China and Vietnam and places.

[379] This ban will make a big difference because the shark populations down to about 12, 13 % of what it was.

[380] And they should have a chance to build back up again.

[381] Can we talk for a sec about your childhood, the family you grew up in and in the modeling you received?

[382] Because I do wonder if some of this, is it nurture, is it nature, the way you are?

[383] I'm going to an HBO series tomorrow on my life, and they nearly called the series, instead of calling it Branson, they nearly called it Son of Eve.

[384] And I think they would have done if it had been not so difficult to promote, because Eve is my mum.

[385] You'll see through the TV series how big an influence my mum had on my life, as moms deal on most people's lives.

[386] She was very entrepreneurial from a very, very young age.

[387] And she never had great success as an entrepreneur, but she was always trying to get extra money to get extra food on the table.

[388] And we were always running to keep up with her.

[389] And then she would never let us watch television.

[390] We all had to be out doing things.

[391] So she had enormous influence, I think.

[392] She'd also had six years old.

[393] You'd be almost a grandma's, and she'd make you get out of the car and find your way the rest of the way.

[394] It was tough love, but it was a great way of getting us to stand on our feet.

[395] And if we survived her tough love, we'd be the stronger for it, and we somehow survive.

[396] Yeah, I don't even see that as tough love.

[397] I'm always trying to get my younger daughter, like, give it a shot, go get lost, and then get unlost.

[398] Let's do it.

[399] I think they're sort of saying about if there's two roads, one's an easy, one's a difficult one, take the difficult one, and life is generally a lot more interesting that way.

[400] Okay, a sense of humor for you is crucial, right?

[401] So the mother, yeah, she had a workshop.

[402] She used to try to sell things in London and varying success.

[403] Richard decides he's going to be a Christmas tree farmer.

[404] He goes away that he plants all the seed, the rabbit seed, all the seed.

[405] It's a big debacle.

[406] It's a disaster.

[407] So within your advice, two that are brilliant.

[408] are learning to accept and move on and learning to laugh.

[409] And I think the laughing aspect has to be a part of your willingness to call on the phone.

[410] I think there's some part of you that can laugh at yourself.

[411] And you go, okay, if I shit the bet on this, I'm going to hang up the phone.

[412] I'm going to have a good laugh.

[413] And that'll be that.

[414] Humor is so important.

[415] It can backfire on occasions.

[416] It just thought of one occasion where it really did backfire.

[417] I want to hear that.

[418] Obama making fun of Trump?

[419] Oh, God.

[420] Seriously.

[421] Every April Fool's, we would do something, and we many, many, many years ago announced on April Fool's Day that we were launching something called Music Box where we were going to store every album and every single on every label on a little box and people were going to be able to download the music.

[422] And the industry suddenly realized that it was the end of the industry, Branson's bombshell, the end of the industry.

[423] And at 12 o 'clock, I said it was a joke.

[424] But Steve Jobs saw my joke.

[425] and he said to his engineering team, let's have a look at this.

[426] And as a result, a few years later, he launches the iPod, which then puts Virgin Megastores out of business.

[427] Oh, my God.

[428] So the joke definitely backfired on me. It brought down your record store empire.

[429] It brought down our record store empire.

[430] Even despite that, I think humor is so important, but you need people who can laugh at your bad jokes around you, which I've fortunately got one or two.

[431] You yourself saying this, and I am in lockstep on this opinion, which is I can't learn much from people's successes, but boy, can I learn a lot from people's failures.

[432] I think you say specifically, it's much harder to be the pioneer than the person that follows the pioneer.

[433] I guess my curiosity is, when did that occur to you?

[434] How early into this did you recognize, oh, I should be looking at who came before me and how I need to learn from their mistakes?

[435] There was a guy called Sir Freddie Laker who was really the pioneer of low -cost airlines.

[436] He only survived a year, and I had lunch with him when I was thinking he was setting up Virgin Atlantic, and he said, look, I'm going to give you two bits of advice.

[437] He said, one British Airways will try to put you out of business.

[438] So three words, sue the bastards, which I ended up doing when they did try to put us out of business.

[439] He said the second bit of advice, Richard, is when you reach my age, which, and he was, I don't know, at 38 at the time.

[440] I was early 30s.

[441] He said, I've ended up getting prostate cancer.

[442] He said, Richard, you just got to go along to your doctor and get yourself checked.

[443] I'm afraid the doctor will use his finger.

[444] Just make sure Richard he doesn't have both hands on your shoulder when he's doing the checking.

[445] Sure, sure, when that finger goes in, yeah.

[446] But anyway, humor mixed with some really sound advice about suing the bastards.

[447] And we actually ended up suing British Airways after we had about three.

[448] three planes, they launched something called the Dirty Tricks campaign against us.

[449] We got the largest libel damages in history given to us by the court at Christmas time.

[450] We distributed it to all our staff equal, and it became known as the British Airways Christmas bonus.

[451] Our team, I think, have been hoping that they'll sue ever since.

[452] Monica, they got nasty British Airways as they were picking up some steam.

[453] They actually got into their computer system, would find out the passenger list of flights booked, call the passengers, say they were canceled, offer them fair on a British Airlines, and upgrade them to first class.

[454] I mean, like, real, gnarly illegal gangster stuff.

[455] It was very, very, very, very un -British.

[456] Yeah.

[457] The image of British anyway.

[458] Well, that's what I love about you, Brits, is, you know, no one can be that polite.

[459] There's always going to be the undercurrent.

[460] We're going to find out, like, no one's that polite.

[461] Everyone's equally terrible.

[462] When's it going to bubble up?

[463] Okay, I have a question about story.

[464] your story i would imagine sir richard has to evolve because it stops making sense if you'll hear me out you're greatly positioned as you start virgin records you're signing sex pistols that's daring that's outrageous that's dangerous you become this huge independent label the biggest independent label in the world in that story there are bad guys the bad guys are the corporate labels and as you become Virgin Atlantic, the bad guy's British airway.

[465] It's a great story.

[466] At what point do you have to acknowledge in your trajectory?

[467] This story doesn't really make sense anymore.

[468] We're the big guys.

[469] And to keep the same story would start feeling inauthentic or fraudulent.

[470] Did that ever cross your mind in this journey that you inadvertently became an institution and how you had to change the story to address that?

[471] Yeah.

[472] It's a very good question.

[473] I think I I've become an institution more from my age than from our businesses becoming institutionalized.

[474] If you look at our newest business Virgin Voyages, we've got three ships against carnivals, 300 ships.

[475] So in each of our new businesses, we're still very much the underdog taking on the bigger company.

[476] In space, Jeff and Elon are, like, trillionaires.

[477] We are relatively very small.

[478] Meager billionaire.

[479] Yeah, the two big guys we're taking on and so on.

[480] So we're not dominant in any of the businesses we're in.

[481] But I think that there's no question that people perceive an underdog being young and thrusting.

[482] Okay, great.

[483] So my follow -up question would be, if I start an airline tomorrow, Virgin is BA.

[484] To me, I'm flattered you should think that we're that big.

[485] But you know what I'm saying?

[486] If I'm starting one tomorrow.

[487] Yeah, no, fair enough.

[488] Do you find that your attention naturally gravitates to whatever project you're involved in, that you still are the underdog?

[489] Do you think the underdog story is one of the big fuel sources?

[490] Are you less interested in managing one of your companies in great success than you are in building the underdog ones?

[491] I enjoy building companies, no question.

[492] That's the most excited.

[493] It's like with the grandkids, you know, you run to the grandkids and the children that you've already grown, get the second hug.

[494] And I think the same applies to new companies.

[495] But just to sort of stand back a minute, most of my time now is spent on not building for -profit businesses, but is looking at some of the big issues in the world and trying to see how we can tackle those.

[496] And having just as much fun and a challenge trying to save sharks or trying to change the drug regulations or trying to stop people, killing people with capital punishment.

[497] And that's more where I get my satisfaction from these days.

[498] Yeah.

[499] Stay tuned for more of Armature.

[500] expert if you dare what's up guys this your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest okay every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation and I don't mean just friends I mean the likes of Amy Polar Kel Mitchell Vivica Fox the list goes on so follow watch and listen to baby this is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast We've all been there.

[501] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[502] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[503] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[504] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[505] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[506] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[507] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[508] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[509] Here's a very risky question, okay?

[510] And I don't even know that in this day and age we can do this, but I'm going to attempt to.

[511] and if it goes awry, I'll save both of us in editing.

[512] Before you ask it, let me just work out how I can cut you off.

[513] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[514] You got to act like you didn't hear the question.

[515] Yeah, exactly.

[516] I'm so sorry, you're breaking up.

[517] Not that the internet's not spectacular in this new Virgin Hotel.

[518] Again, this is a fuel source question.

[519] So I see as so much footage of you as a 15 -year -old, and you are adorable.

[520] You're absolutely adorable.

[521] There's no question about it.

[522] But you're also not the captain of the football team.

[523] or whatever the English equivalent of that is.

[524] So my sincere and honest question for you is, do you think if you are a bona fide 10 with the fucking sweater over your shoulders and the Homecoming King, do you actually think you genetically still do what you do?

[525] Most likely not.

[526] I think people who've struggled at school are apt to be the people who are trying to prove something to themselves, their parents, their friends, and get out there and succeed.

[527] whereas the captains at the school go into the more boring jobs.

[528] They might make a decent living in a bank or something.

[529] Okay, great.

[530] So I am that way.

[531] I have that belief about myself.

[532] Had I been getting all A's, I probably wouldn't have done shit.

[533] I think the unavoidable truth is mate selection is the nuclear fuel source in humans, getting the mate we want.

[534] And I think it's just this incredible propellant.

[535] It's so powerful.

[536] Let me just say historically, Monica.

[537] He starts an airline because there is a woman waiting for him at BVI in an American airline's flight is canceled.

[538] He's fucked.

[539] He has to charter a plane.

[540] He sells seats on it to the other people that were delayed.

[541] But he's got to get to that woman in BVI.

[542] Without that, we're not starting that airline.

[543] So my question is, and I love it.

[544] She's your views.

[545] Yes.

[546] What happens when you achieve that?

[547] What happens to that fuel source?

[548] You go to space.

[549] Where you're what, allowed to have affairs?

[550] That's what's left, where there's Martians that you haven't met.

[551] When you found that woman or that partner and you can no longer use that entity to chase partners, you take it out on, I mean, I've started three or four hundred businesses.

[552] I've taken it out on a lot of other areas instead.

[553] And had different kind of fun, but a lot of fun anyway.

[554] Yeah, just curious about that, because I find myself happily married and successful in my world.

[555] I'm wondering what the next fuel source is at all times.

[556] One of the reason I love being a journalist running student magazine was the amount I learned from doing it, the amount of people you meet and the research that you have to do for interviews, and that's a great fuel source.

[557] So what you're doing is a great fuel source.

[558] I'm sure you're doing some other things as well, but on the back of it.

[559] Yeah, yeah.

[560] I think what's most impressive about you is your unending interest in drive, and that's, to me, the main enigma about you that I'm fascinated by.

[561] Do you have kids, by the way?

[562] I do, yeah, seven and nine -year -old girls.

[563] That's pretty damn good.

[564] Yeah, yeah.

[565] Now, some of the great things that you advise people to do, one in particular I really, really love, which is confront your frustrations.

[566] Don't you find that frustration is almost the most compelling emotion we have?

[567] Like, to have legitimate anger and grief over something, a service, a product, an experience, is just so motivating.

[568] It is.

[569] And that's why when I'm frustrated, I want to do something about it, and it is very motivating.

[570] And I've started a number of businesses on the back of being frustrated.

[571] One does a lot of things on the back of being frustrated.

[572] But as I said earlier, I start businesses.

[573] Okay, I also just want to talk about the mechanics of you booking that flight, chartering that plane, and then what you do the very next day.

[574] Again, this is this thing I think is so amazing about you, is you have a successful music label.

[575] You chartered this flight.

[576] Next morning, you're on the phone with Boeing.

[577] Could you just tell us about why you thought you should pick up the phone and call a stranger?

[578] Yeah, so I decided, screw it, let's do it.

[579] Let's see if they'll rent me a plane.

[580] So I rang up Boeing switchboard and was put through to the sales department, Boeing in Seattle.

[581] And a guy called RJ Wilson answers the phone and tell him I want a secondhand 747.

[582] Do you have any for rent?

[583] And he just wanted to know what company I've worked for and what's the name, Virgin.

[584] Anyway, we ended up somehow managing to extract a second -hand 747 from him.

[585] And that's how Virgin Atlantic started 38 years ago, just with one plane.

[586] Are you amenable to advice?

[587] Is it easy for you to ask for guidance?

[588] Because I imagine half that call you're trying to get an airplane out of them.

[589] The other half is like you're hoping they educate you a little bit on this business.

[590] I'm amenable for advice all the time.

[591] I mean, I think one thing I'm good at is being a good listener.

[592] And, you know, if you're starting an airline and you know nothing about the airline business, you've got to be a good listener.

[593] You've got to write a lot of things down and learn fast, and I had to learn really fast.

[594] This is a stupid question, but were you interested in music before you started the label, or was it just the allure of starting a business?

[595] Or was it very specifically the music industry?

[596] I was interested in a particular album called Tuba Bell's, which a 15 -year -old had brought us the tape.

[597] I just loved it, as did a couple of my friends who were around me. And we went to six record companies, they wouldn't put it out.

[598] We thought that's ridiculous.

[599] We'll start a record company.

[600] We'll put it out ourselves.

[601] And so we had to learn, how do you run a record company?

[602] And we had to learn quickly.

[603] We put the album out.

[604] And I think our taste turned out to be better than the record companies.

[605] It sold millions of copies than showing my age.

[606] Next year is the 50th anniversary of Tupid Bells by Mike Oldfield.

[607] It was outselling Dark Side of the Moon, Pink Floyd, and Tupid Bells was buying for number one spot over two or three years.

[608] period, all those years ago.

[609] That is crazy.

[610] Number one album for a year straight.

[611] Are you living in a simulation?

[612] I'd sometimes pinch myself and wonder.

[613] I've been very fortunate and I appreciate every moment of it.

[614] If I am in a simulation, it's a nice one.

[615] Yeah, you got a good part.

[616] I'm not planning to climb out.

[617] Is tubular bells your rosebud?

[618] When you look back on the strokes of good fortune, is that for you the number one?

[619] We then quite quickly sign the sex pistols, which I think, it was the Sex Pistols more that enabled this to attract people like Rolling Stones and Janet Jackson and David Bowie and a whole lot of brilliant bands.

[620] But yeah, Tuba Bells definitely kick -started the record company.

[621] And you built this incredible place, the Manor.

[622] Prior to that, when people recorded albums, they would like have a three -hour session, they would bring their shit in and out.

[623] They were annoyed by that.

[624] And he's like, let's just do two, three weeks.

[625] You come, you leave your stuff, you make an album, you relax.

[626] And you created a culture that didn't exist.

[627] Yeah, bands love coming there.

[628] They like to just record all night and sleep all day.

[629] Whether it was Katz Stevens or Van Morrison or Paul McCartney, Frank Zappa, pretty well everybody used to come to the manor to record.

[630] How often would you hang around to get some FaceTime with them?

[631] Did you hang with Zappa?

[632] I remember picking up Zappa from the airport, and the manor was big, but there was a palace a mile away called Blennon Palace.

[633] I actually drove him down the avenues to Blenon Palace and just dropped him off and said, go and bag on the front door.

[634] He got out and walked up the front door with his long, scraggly hair, and this sort of posh, doorman of Blenheim Palace opened the door.

[635] He gets thrown out pretty quickly, and I take him to the proper manner.

[636] I was lucky enough to spend time with a lot of the musicians.

[637] Keith Richards taught me to roll a joint, so a bit of name -dropping.

[638] No, that one's worth it.

[639] Oh, God, yeah.

[640] You clearly had a lot of respect for artists and the artistic process, and you said, you know, there's all these extraneous elements associated with the artists, whether they got to figure out publishing, they got to book a tour, they need management, and you just started filling out all the things that an artist would need.

[641] When you were around them, did you have just appreciation for them, or did you also have any envy for them?

[642] I don't think I was ever envious of them.

[643] I mean, I was lucky enough to be around some extraordinary people who made extraordinary music.

[644] Kat Stevens, I was just suddenly thought of, you know, somebody who spent a lot of time at the manner making beautiful, beautiful, beautiful songs.

[645] I would love to be a musician.

[646] My son's a musician, but that wasn't in my makeup at all.

[647] You know, I would just sit and wonder where some of these beautiful songs came from.

[648] It was very lucky to be sitting in the front seat watching it.

[649] If you're lucky enough and you get to meet a lot of people that you're interested in, maybe even heroes, obviously some disappoint, some overachieve.

[650] Is there someone from that era that really just blew your mind?

[651] that you still think, well, that person was magic?

[652] Peter Gabriel, saw Collins as well, but Peter Gabriel, I've kept in touch with, he was somebody that everybody at Virgin wanted to be successful because he's such a nice person, produced beautiful songs, very moving.

[653] I mean, I remember being in South Africa with him, with Nelson Mandela, name -dropping.

[654] Mandela was unveiling a statue to Steve Biko who'd been killed by the white population in prison.

[655] After Mandela had made this in passion speech, got Peter to come forward, gave him Mandela's microphone and just said, why don't you sing the song Biko?

[656] And he just sang without any backing musicians and the whole crowd, 100 ,000 people were singing it.

[657] And I suspect if you asked him, he would say it was one of the most moving moments of his life.

[658] And it definitely was one of the most moving moments in my life.

[659] Wow.

[660] Yeah, that's magic.

[661] When a human being is just handed a microphone and then the thing that comes out of them infects everyone around them with an emotion, that's something to behold.

[662] Yeah, it's special.

[663] I just think it's really funny that you're so self -aware because you've said that you've name -dropped a couple times, but obviously you're going to name -drop because that's your life.

[664] That's what you're surrounded by.

[665] Not even your peers.

[666] They're -employees.

[667] Yes.

[668] And so I think that's really sweet and lovely, but hilarious that you have to consider, oh, I'm not name -dropping.

[669] You're not.

[670] You're just talking about the people in your life.

[671] Can I do one more bit of name -dropping then?

[672] Yes.

[673] We live for name -dropping.

[674] It's so juicy.

[675] So Archbishop Tutu.

[676] who is Nelson Mandela's right -hand person.

[677] I'm just an extraordinary man. He was chair of the elders, which was an organization that we would.

[678] Occasionally, he would name drop.

[679] And he would go, oh dear, there I go again, he would say.

[680] It's funny, only the other day I was at Buckingham Palace.

[681] The queen said to me, oh, Arch, you're such a name dropper.

[682] Oh, yeah.

[683] We have a version of that, a joke we say, which is, you know, I never name drop.

[684] Tom Hanks told me it's the grossest thing you can do.

[685] You steal mine, I'll steal you.

[686] Yeah, yeah, yeah, please, please.

[687] Okay, as a fellow adrenaline junkie, you have this whole phase of your life.

[688] I mean, really, you could just be someone who was worthy of an interview in a book and a masterclass.

[689] If you were just an adventurist, I mean, you've done enough bizarre things that were life -threatening and had very little purpose, which I respect.

[690] What one were you in your mind?

[691] You're like, okay, we finally went, too far.

[692] I'm in a situation I shouldn't have put myself in.

[693] What am I doing here?

[694] And did you have heart to heart with your ego to figure out what's happening?

[695] Pretty well every time.

[696] In my new book, Finding My Vigility, I think I write at the back, the 70, or is it 80 now?

[697] Hold on a minute.

[698] 80 times I've come close to killing myself.

[699] And every time I promise myself, if I get out of this situation, I'll never do it again.

[700] And every time somehow I find myself a few months later, forgetting those frightening moments and climbing into another balloon or climbing another mountain or whatever.

[701] But I'm not going to tell any specific stories because I'm here in New York to launch the HBO series and you're going to have to go watch it.

[702] Okay, great.

[703] I love documentary, especially biographical documentary.

[704] So I watch the trailer for yours.

[705] I am so excited for it.

[706] I got to imagine if you're going to commit to something like that, the notion that it was done at HBO has to be the safest version of that.

[707] You know the quality is pretty darn consistent.

[708] How were you approached to do that?

[709] Did you have any reservations about that?

[710] The director is called Chris Smith.

[711] He's tough.

[712] He's strictly independent.

[713] So you know that you're taking a risk in going with somebody completely independent and you're not going to have any say.

[714] I mean, for instance, the title, Branson, I didn't like at all.

[715] The last time I was called Branson was when I was at school.

[716] Other school kids all had to call you by the surname, and it just rankles with me. But you got no say on that, which is good when I'm at the premiere of it.

[717] I'll be watching it for the first time, and it'll be tough.

[718] I'd much rather take a risk with an independent director rather than just having a puffy piece, which HBO most likely wouldn't have been interested in any way.

[719] HBO are very good also at just wanting to have their credibility, and so they should.

[720] Although I'm sure you've had the experience yourself or you're either interested in some historical figure.

[721] You read a great biography.

[722] It's actually the step that you probably, Richard, are nervous about.

[723] That is the absolute most revealing, attractive, unifying, comforting.

[724] Are you able to recognize that when it's done to other people, it's so powerful.

[725] And that to not do that version would limit the power of it.

[726] Absolutely.

[727] I mean, I know that, for instance, there's somebody doing a film on the Dirty Tricks campaign and we talked about with British Airways.

[728] It's a feature film.

[729] And, you know, they haven't spoken to me, which I'm sure they will at some stage.

[730] But, you know, I sort of respect them for just getting on and doing their research and getting on and doing the film.

[731] And, you know, it being independent.

[732] They make the best films, the more independent the directors and producers can be, the better.

[733] Did you watch this five or six -part documentary on Murdoch?

[734] Are we talking about it?

[735] It's called Murdoch.

[736] Yeah, it's CNN.

[737] It's pretty recent.

[738] I just watched it maybe last month.

[739] I haven't seen it, and I'd love to see it.

[740] Do you feel like you have a perspective and an understanding on fellow kind of global entrepreneurs or people like Murdoch?

[741] Do you feel like you have some understanding of them that's a little deeper than maybe I would have?

[742] Rather than sort of talking specifically about Murdoch, I do think that people need to remember that all you have in your life is your reputation at the end of your life.

[743] And I think it's important that entrepreneurs remember that, that they're not going to be around forever.

[744] and they need to conduct their lives in a way that their reputation is as intact as possible and that they can feel proud of their life when they're on their deathbed.

[745] And there are some entrepreneurs, I won't go into names, but they built a fortune doing things which they may not be particularly proud of on their deathbed.

[746] And it's really important that your children are proud of their parents and grandchildren are proud of their parents.

[747] Yeah, I think there's something really interesting happening right now in entertainment.

[748] There's like a collective social commentary happening on wealth, class, specifically billionaires.

[749] I don't know if you're watching White Lotus, but that gets into that.

[750] Also, Glass Onion, The New Knives Out, talks about it.

[751] Triangle of Sadness is really interesting, dissecting all those pieces.

[752] And I do wonder from the perspective of you and the echelon of people you're in, if you watch those things and you're like, they don't get it.

[753] They're missing something.

[754] Entrepreneurs that I know that if I feel they're slipping up, I'm now old enough to be able to shoot a note to them or pick up a phone and have a chat with them.

[755] Maybe just have a quiet word and just say, you're in danger of damaging your reputation.

[756] And I think there are some people that will shoot things off on the internet.

[757] People need editors, you know, like a journalist needs an editor.

[758] If you wake up at 3 in the morning and put something out on Twitter or on Instagram or whatever, it can be dangerous.

[759] and then you might wake up the next morning and think, ah, what have I done?

[760] Yeah.

[761] It's good to have somebody to talk to and give you some advice, I think, on occasions.

[762] I have editors that keep me in check.

[763] Smart.

[764] Very, very grateful to them for that.

[765] Okay, from the outside, from what I've consumed, all the research, watching the master class, can't wait to watch the HBO doc.

[766] What does seem clear to me is that I don't think money was the thing.

[767] I think almost you're a billionaire on accident.

[768] And I think you could have put more of your focus into just growing the war chest, and you didn't really seem to make that your barometer of success.

[769] I think that you're absolutely right.

[770] I saw a clip from the HBO thing, which talked about me being focused on the bottom line, and I've just never been focused on the bottom line.

[771] I've been interested in creating things I could be proud of and hoping that the bottom line will fix itself.

[772] And we've never relative to considering what we've done, We haven't made vast fortunes because the businesses we're in.

[773] They're all consumer facing.

[774] They're not tech businesses.

[775] But that doesn't matter.

[776] I can afford lunch dinner and breakfast and a roof over my head.

[777] Yeah, I guess I'd imagine that if I were you, I would still be able to feel like an outcaster or misfit or punk rock because even though I'm in this group of people, I can say with certainty, I actually wasn't chasing this thing.

[778] So I do feel a little bit separate and on the outside.

[779] Even though I'm with them, I still feel like I have the outsider's point of view.

[780] Yeah, I think quite a lot of people who've done well have not thought of the money as the motive for why they set up their businesses.

[781] I doubt that Larry Page, when he set up Google, was thinking, oh, well, I could make a fortune by doing this.

[782] I heard it once say to a kid, you know, the kid asked him what he does and said, I help people find things.

[783] That summed up Google perfectly.

[784] by helping people find things.

[785] Yep, he's become a ridiculously rich person.

[786] But I don't think that was what motivated him.

[787] Well, and again, I think that's what I like most about everything I learned from your perspective on business was that everything for you is led by an emotional pull, some creative puzzle you want to solve, being loud, being fun, being bold, making a name for the things you were involved with.

[788] There's definitely an artistry to it all that's been quite fun to watch.

[789] And I sure hope there's more Richard Branson's coming down the pipeline.

[790] I like this artsy kaleidoscopic version of the Titan of Industry.

[791] It's been very fun to watch.

[792] Well, it's been great fun talking to you both.

[793] Much more fun seeing Monica than Dax, but...

[794] Of course.

[795] Fuel source.

[796] This is an isotope right here, this unstable isotope.

[797] It's my dream to be eye candy.

[798] so I appreciate that very much.

[799] I do have actually one more question, because we won't talk about the specifics of your thrill -seeking because that comes out on HBO, which we aren't quite to watch.

[800] But do you think that the impetus for thrill -seeking is potentially that your life has been so full of altered reality?

[801] You have crossed the boundaries of what so many people are able to do, could do, And so it's like dipping your toe and what's real.

[802] But there's like an arrogance building.

[803] Like I'm breaking all these rules.

[804] I can probably break this one too.

[805] And not even I probably can, but can I?

[806] Like it's asking the question, can I also do this?

[807] Can I also survive this?

[808] If somebody came to you and there was something that had never been done before, I don't know, climbing Everest or crossing the Atlantic and a hot air balloon or going to space in your own spaceship, would you say no?

[809] Would you say yes?

[810] I'd say no. So fast.

[811] I have no desire for peril.

[812] So let me ask Jacks.

[813] Yeah, that's a different answer.

[814] Well, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[815] But I know where it comes from.

[816] And I want to know what you label that.

[817] I think that, yeah, for 50 % of the population, they would definitely say no. And for 50 % they would definitely say yes.

[818] And all I can say is, you only live once.

[819] It's a lot more fun of you to say yes.

[820] It's not just the actual event.

[821] It's the planning.

[822] It's the camaraderie of a team of people trying to do something it's never been done before.

[823] It's the most incredible experience in my balloons.

[824] I was flying over Mount Everest and K2 and down the Himalaya chain and, you know, spectacular views.

[825] But it would take longer, and I've got somebody who's trying to tell me I've got to go.

[826] Kind of girl.

[827] It's been an absolute delight to talk to you both.

[828] Thank you, and well done on everything you're achieving.

[829] Thank you so much, Richard.

[830] It's been a blast talking to you.

[831] And I hope we'll somehow rendezvous with Shannon in the future.

[832] I would look forward to that.

[833] Nice to talk to you.

[834] Thanks to love.

[835] Good luck with everything.

[836] Bye.

[837] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[838] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[839] Right, right.

[840] You're just like you're searching.

[841] There's an opportunity to trick someone.

[842] And then the challenge and the is make it believable enough that it's, well, it's believed.

[843] What if I started crying?

[844] You wouldn't have started crying that Bill Gates was here, would you?

[845] No, but I was about to get upset.

[846] Okay.

[847] So to catch everyone up.

[848] This is really funny.

[849] My friends came over last night.

[850] You went to the White Elephant Party.

[851] I did.

[852] Which we'll get into, I'm sure.

[853] But you were dropping Liz Plankoff, who's staying in our pool house.

[854] Yes.

[855] And when you pulled in, you saw.

[856] A security detail leaving your...

[857] Like, it was so strange because I was about to pull in and the gates were opening at the same time.

[858] Okay.

[859] And I had to stop.

[860] This solves a mystery I had last night, which was they left and I heard Frank going apeshit.

[861] Like, someone was there.

[862] And I'm like, come on, bro.

[863] They just left.

[864] But he was responding to you guys.

[865] Liz, yeah.

[866] Okay, so he's doing his job.

[867] Anywho.

[868] So two blacked -out security details.

[869] One's worth describing.

[870] So one of the vehicles is a full -size GMC Denali, like an escalate.

[871] Yes.

[872] But it's stretched.

[873] It's like the size of one and a half escalates.

[874] Yeah.

[875] But anyway, two, what looked to me and my eyes are bad.

[876] Yeah, they're not great.

[877] It was night.

[878] And it was night.

[879] Double -o -o -a -neying.

[880] Everything's going against you.

[881] And they came out in succession, and we were like, like, what's happening?

[882] Who just left?

[883] And I got a weird feeling.

[884] Okay, run me through some of your immediate fantasies that it was.

[885] They weren't fantasies.

[886] They were all, this is so me. I mean, I was like, oh, my God, Dax doesn't tell me anything anymore.

[887] Okay.

[888] I think you're maybe going to go to, you felt left out.

[889] Well, it's connected.

[890] It is connected.

[891] Yeah.

[892] I was like, he had something.

[893] one really fancy.

[894] Marconne, like French president.

[895] Marconne over or something.

[896] Yes.

[897] Oh my God.

[898] And like he didn't even tell me that was happening.

[899] Right.

[900] What's become of us as friends?

[901] Yes.

[902] That's what it was.

[903] It wasn't like why didn't he invite me. It was, oh man. He didn't even get excited to tell me about that.

[904] That Angela Merkel was coming over.

[905] And then Liz said, oh my God.

[906] Did Biden come over to watch White Lotus?

[907] And I was like, oh my God, maybe.

[908] Like, that is a possibility.

[909] Oh, wow, that is first and foremost incredibly flattering.

[910] That that would be on the table, you know?

[911] So that seems like a feather in my cap.

[912] Yeah, so that feels good.

[913] Yeah, I said, what happened last night?

[914] There were two cars that were leaving, and then you said, that was Bill Gates.

[915] That was Bill Gates.

[916] He was over.

[917] And you go, Bill Gates.

[918] And I said, yeah.

[919] But I couldn't keep it going long because I love you.

[920] Yeah.

[921] So then I had to tell you, it was my friend Penae, who I've talked about it.

[922] a million times.

[923] Penae produced all the movies I directed and I was in a few he produced and he's a humongous marketer.

[924] He does all these great commercials that you see.

[925] And he, not that anyone cares, he was having a meeting, this might interest you, with the king of horror.

[926] Um, Blum, Blum, Blum, Blum, Blum, Blum, Blum, Blum, Blum.

[927] Jason Blum house.

[928] Jason Blum.

[929] And Panet really kind of admires blum for obvious reasons the guy's incredible and um he's the one who told andrew are you driving yourself around and Andrew said yeah he said well your job is like talking to people and communicating and so every minute you're in the car you're not doing your job and he just broke it down to him in a way what's like because of the job you have and how much time you spend in traffic in L .A. and how many meetings are you can't be driving yourself anymore well fucking George took that to heart.

[930] And I'd argue he took it to heart before he even really had the money to take it to heart.

[931] And what he got, and this will make sense for the vehicle.

[932] Yeah.

[933] I'm pretty certain, don't sue me, that he got Floyd Mayweather's old crazy stretch escalade that he drives around Vegas in.

[934] Oh, my God.

[935] Yeah.

[936] Presumably Floyd Mayweather spent a fortune building this thing.

[937] It's like building a private airplane or something.

[938] Oh, my.

[939] This vehicle that George drives around in is hysterical.

[940] What is really convenient is any time you're meeting him somewhere, you know whether he's there or not, because there's this preposterous vehicle.

[941] Well, you don't know.

[942] It could be.

[943] Oh, Biden, Biden, Biden, oh, Gerarch or Barden, and Merkel.

[944] And Bill Gates.

[945] And Bill Gates.

[946] Or Floyd.

[947] Or Floyd, Mayweather.

[948] It's gorgeous inside.

[949] There's four seats, two, and two, opposing each other.

[950] And there's a big, beautiful TV behind your hat.

[951] and he's in there with his blankets on.

[952] Like, you would, if you think Eric's eccentric, like, I'm sad you've not spent more time with Pena.

[953] He's the sweetest man on the planet.

[954] He's Yorgo, my Greek baby.

[955] Yeah, you love him.

[956] I love him.

[957] And he sits in there with his blanket on, and he talks on the phone and makes deals and does all this stuff.

[958] So anyways, yes.

[959] Oh, he's got so many blankets right there.

[960] He also, George.

[961] Probably Hermes blankets.

[962] He's very fancy.

[963] The fancies.

[964] And he brought the girls really cute fancy sweatsuits he always brings gifts yeah somewhere in malibu you know they get those high -end things out in malibu oh yeah he's he's living it and he also runs 13 miles a morning every morning 13 yes george runs a half marathon every morning every morning yes in a week he runs three and a half marathons he's a machine he's also all ad he's five years older than me and so he's often in the back of that fucking crazy car with these huge airbags around his legs um circulation yes they're like recovery bags his whole life is running and all of his investment he has everything to keep himself able to run without injury so the other part of his day is with these crazy airbags on I think he's got an oxygen chamber he's hysterical but yes I said to you it was Bill Gates and then we were reflecting on the fact that that's my That's my, and Rob really relates.

[965] He clearly does this to Natalie a lot.

[966] Yes.

[967] Is you just try to pick something.

[968] You want to fool the person, in this case you, little monous mouse, you know, in her stuffy outfit.

[969] And you think, who could it be?

[970] I was tempted to say Obama, but that's, nah.

[971] There's no chance.

[972] Bill Gates was the perfect person because there is a relationship of sorts.

[973] There's some email.

[974] Yeah, there's a relationship.

[975] He sent us his book bag.

[976] Yeah, I can comment on his Instagram page, which is hysterical.

[977] You can?

[978] Do you know I'm the only person on Instagram that's allowed to comment on it?

[979] Do you not know this?

[980] No, I know that no one can.

[981] I can.

[982] I'm the only person.

[983] I don't know how I even figured this out because I know you can't comment on it, but I tried to comment, by God, it showed up.

[984] You got like accepted?

[985] By some crazy mix -up, I'm the only, I think I'm the only person in the world that can comment on his Instagram posts, which I do all the time.

[986] And when I do, I get an immediate barrage of all the people who hate Bill Gates sending me messages.

[987] There's an explosion of activity every time I comment on his post.

[988] Wow, I'm so jealous.

[989] I think it's my crowning achievement.

[990] Yeah, big time.

[991] So, yeah, when you said that, I was like, oh, wow.

[992] And then also I was upset.

[993] Jealous and upset.

[994] Not jealous.

[995] Okay.

[996] Not jealous.

[997] The same thing.

[998] I was like, yeah, what I thought was exactly right.

[999] Like, he didn't want to tell me this really cool thing.

[1000] That Obama was coming over.

[1001] Why didn't he want to tell me that?

[1002] No, Bill Gates.

[1003] Oh, Bill Gates.

[1004] I'm getting confused.

[1005] That thing was lies.

[1006] No man's memory is good enough he can afford to lie.

[1007] Wow.

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] And I will say, I think it was.

[1010] It was compounded with Adam Grant?

[1011] Yes.

[1012] Okay.

[1013] Yes.

[1014] I think because I was prime.

[1015] I'm to teeny tiny, but not in the same way.

[1016] I could see why you wouldn't think to tell me about that.

[1017] Right.

[1018] But still, I was like, oh, oh, oh, that's interesting.

[1019] And then you're like having this weekend where you have all these like...

[1020] All of our past guests.

[1021] Yeah, and don't want to tell me, you want to exclude me from it.

[1022] Right.

[1023] No, no, no, not the case at all.

[1024] But yes, Adam Grant came over on Saturday with two of his three kids.

[1025] It was really, really, really, really sweet and lovely.

[1026] And I love that guy.

[1027] Good.

[1028] White elephant party.

[1029] Oh, I went to the white elephant party yesterday.

[1030] It was really fun.

[1031] Hit me with the highlights.

[1032] One is there was a taxidermied mouse.

[1033] Oh, really?

[1034] Yeah, and I was upset because those are my people.

[1035] Right.

[1036] And you were upset because one was being exploited for shits and giggies at a party.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] Did it look cute, taxidermied?

[1039] Yeah, I mean, everyone was pretty grossed out.

[1040] Okay.

[1041] But it did get stolen twice and then frozen.

[1042] Oh, okay.

[1043] It was dressed up, so it was just like little mouse.

[1044] A little mice.

[1045] And he's dressed up as the Grim Reaper.

[1046] Oh, that's a bummer.

[1047] I was immediately picturing an English schoolboy, like in the little shorts.

[1048] Like a cardigan.

[1049] Top hat.

[1050] Yeah, that would be an incredible mask.

[1051] You might be able to buy, because it turns out it was Audra who brought it.

[1052] Sure.

[1053] And she said they also had a Marilyn Monroe mice.

[1054] Oh, that's wonderful.

[1055] Yeah.

[1056] With like a dress being blown up?

[1057] Yes.

[1058] Oh, this is great.

[1059] So anyway, but I was offended.

[1060] And then, let's see, I brought some very nice kitchen knives.

[1061] Oh, okay.

[1062] Amy ended up getting those great.

[1063] That's the dream, right?

[1064] That's the dream.

[1065] But things were hairy.

[1066] Well, let me just back up and just say there always is a little bit of strategy at this white elephant party.

[1067] Because if you want someone to have a certain present happens quite often.

[1068] And then there's like, okay, well, you pick it and it'll get stolen from you.

[1069] And then my turn, I'll see it.

[1070] And then there's a lot of backroom dealings.

[1071] This is a great time to bring up couples versus singles.

[1072] Okay, great.

[1073] Yeah.

[1074] This is where things pop up or you don't expect it, right?

[1075] The ugly side.

[1076] Yes.

[1077] Because what always happens is couples tag team.

[1078] Uh -huh, uh -huh.

[1079] And the way they can do that.

[1080] So I'm sorry.

[1081] Another precursor.

[1082] The way this white elephant works is you pull your name out of a hat.

[1083] It says you're going to pick number 12.

[1084] When it gets to 12, you can either go under the tree and get a new gift or you can steal one you've already seen be opened.

[1085] And then that thing can get stolen two more times.

[1086] And then that's done.

[1087] It's locked.

[1088] Okay, great.

[1089] So everyone knows the rules.

[1090] Yes.

[1091] And so what will happen in couples is you just steal for each other, basically.

[1092] And because there's two of you, you have a chance of locking a little bit better.

[1093] Or someone in your couple will steal a gift and then there's one more left, one more steal, and then you'll steal from your partner so that you together have it.

[1094] Hopefully you've never been mad at me because I don't really want anything and I always end up with something absolutely terrible.

[1095] I always end up with the thing everyone's like, I don't think I've ever had anything stolen from me. No, I just feel like, ganged up on.

[1096] No, I just feel like, uh, yet another thing.

[1097] But you and Liz could have easily made that pack.

[1098] Okay.

[1099] So this year, this year, Liz came to the party.

[1100] And I said before I was like, oh my God, Liz, we can be a couple this year.

[1101] We can do this.

[1102] She had never come or she didn't know what it was.

[1103] So I had to explain all of this.

[1104] It didn't work out.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] By the way, even when working as a couple, so much is out of your hand.

[1107] Exactly.

[1108] 30 people there or something.

[1109] Exactly.

[1110] There's a lot of leeway in your strategy, you know, there's holes.

[1111] But we tried, it didn't work, that's fine.

[1112] But we both ended up with great gifts, so it's fine.

[1113] What did you end up with?

[1114] Okay, so should I talk about this?

[1115] Uh -oh.

[1116] Is it risque?

[1117] A little.

[1118] Provocative.

[1119] Not politically correct.

[1120] No, I just think maybe it makes me look really bad, but that's the thing I want to talk about, but that's also, okay.

[1121] All right.

[1122] I ended up with money.

[1123] Okay.

[1124] Which is great.

[1125] Okay.

[1126] The problem is I wanted this record player.

[1127] Okay.

[1128] We had it in our possession as a couple for a while.

[1129] Then, of course, Ryan stole it.

[1130] Yeah.

[1131] He already has one, but.

[1132] As what I was like, I think they have one.

[1133] They do, yeah, maybe even two.

[1134] Ryan stole that, and I was really angry about it.

[1135] Uh -huh.

[1136] So I was like, fuck it.

[1137] Then I want the money.

[1138] Like, there's nothing else out there.

[1139] there that I want and a big component of this.

[1140] There's a recurring gift that happens every year.

[1141] It's a drawer.

[1142] It's this like dick of, they call it dick of drawers.

[1143] Well, originally a decade ago, someone brought a big penis and it's a racked and then vertical.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] And then there were three drawers that you could pull out, right?

[1146] And that got given.

[1147] And then the next year that person brought it back and they had decorated it with veins and hair and all this shit.

[1148] Exactly.

[1149] Then gave it away.

[1150] Then someone else brought it back.

[1151] This went through like six iterations.

[1152] It now lives below our TV.

[1153] Exactly.

[1154] Because John Chu put a little fucking, put it a whole thing in a loose like bubble.

[1155] Christmas decorations, a little train running around the dick of drawers.

[1156] It's incredible.

[1157] It couldn't be topped.

[1158] It should never be destroyed.

[1159] So then Kristen had a nightstand made with titties.

[1160] That's right.

[1161] As the drawer.

[1162] Yes.

[1163] So then that became the new thing.

[1164] Someone put a keg in.

[1165] People have done such cool stuff.

[1166] I'm so glad I never got that.

[1167] I'd be so disappointed if I got it.

[1168] Exactly.

[1169] So that's the fear of my life is getting stuck with that.

[1170] I can't handle it.

[1171] Because you're obligated to do something spectacular.

[1172] Everyone knows those are the rules.

[1173] It's such a burden.

[1174] It's Russian roulette.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] Yeah, there's one bullet in the chamber.

[1177] That's right.

[1178] And so for me, I'm too scared.

[1179] Yeah.

[1180] So I don't want to go get a new present because I could run that risk.

[1181] That's right.

[1182] You just want the known.

[1183] I want to know.

[1184] The enemy you know is better than whatever they say.

[1185] The enemy you don't.

[1186] So I had to pick from what was available.

[1187] Now, I was going to steal some really cool playing cards.

[1188] Great.

[1189] But they were in the hands of a friend that I know is going through a hard time.

[1190] Okay.

[1191] So I felt dishonorable doing that.

[1192] Yeah, this is always tricky.

[1193] So I didn't do that.

[1194] And I was like, fuck this.

[1195] My record player's gone.

[1196] Give me the money.

[1197] Uh -huh.

[1198] So I took the money.

[1199] I locked in the money.

[1200] Okay.

[1201] Which I kind of imagine is a little unpopular for you to lock in the money.

[1202] How much was it?

[1203] I'm just being honest.

[1204] Dex.

[1205] Listen, it would be, can I make a good analogy?

[1206] So there's a present.

[1207] This is the conversation.

[1208] There's a present going around in their shoes.

[1209] They fit everyone magically.

[1210] And they make you two inches taller.

[1211] And then I get them.

[1212] People like, God damn it.

[1213] He doesn't need those fucking shoes.

[1214] is he's already too tall.

[1215] So, I can see where.

[1216] This is why I feel guilty.

[1217] Okay.

[1218] No, you don't need to feel guilty.

[1219] I feel guilty.

[1220] Bullshit.

[1221] But you just said why I shouldn't.

[1222] No, no, no, no. I'm guessing what the potential reaction was is what I'm doing.

[1223] Yeah, I was feeling that.

[1224] Sure, a little envy, a little ire.

[1225] Listen, it's not, it's not all limousines and free jeans when you got money and you're famous.

[1226] no one feels bad for you but listen you want that money just like and the next guy there's some downside to having some cashola and it's gonna people aren't gonna be pumped for you if you get the cash prize I know and just the nature of it I look I really like I took it there was a reaction I didn't until there was an immediate I felt it reaction and I was like oh my God what did I just do that's right yeah but then I I got angry at everyone.

[1227] Right?

[1228] I've got to walk out of there with the shittiest gift possible because I'm clearly the most privileged motherfucker there and I deserve to get the shittiest gift.

[1229] But then it just makes the whole event like, I don't go there and get a knickknack.

[1230] I come bring something great and then I walk out with like edible underwear or some bullshit and I'm like, I don't know.

[1231] You really love this game.

[1232] Well, they're delicious.

[1233] No, I know that this was the first.

[1234] God, where I felt like, oh, fuck, okay, I can't do this again.

[1235] Like, I can't, next year I can't, and I, by the way, I do bring really good gifts.

[1236] Oh, yes.

[1237] To this thing.

[1238] That's right.

[1239] You want to leave with something.

[1240] You kind of want that you're not going to have to throw away.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] But this is like, I feel weird.

[1243] I feel, I felt like blood money.

[1244] Like, I was like, I got to get rid of this.

[1245] Now you're going to give it.

[1246] You got to ask everyone.

[1247] Who's the porous in the room?

[1248] No. Then I thought, oh, maybe I'll ask the person.

[1249] Maybe I'll use it for leverage.

[1250] Like, I'll trade it for, which.

[1251] It's for somebody.

[1252] Okay.

[1253] Now you're a carpet bagger.

[1254] Well, I know.

[1255] That's like, that sounds bad.

[1256] So this seems bad, too.

[1257] Wheeling and dealing.

[1258] We need to have like a 30 -minute coffee about this topic.

[1259] No, I really have been thinking about it ever, like, it's really bothering me. Here's what it is.

[1260] I'm going to make it less grody.

[1261] Okay.

[1262] You've been made other.

[1263] And it's not a good feeling.

[1264] It's not fun to be made other.

[1265] Yeah.

[1266] Well, I know that more than anyone.

[1267] You're a triple whammy now.

[1268] Oh, my God, everyone in the house and thinks I'm a bad person.

[1269] Right, and you're greedy.

[1270] I'm greedy.

[1271] That is what I felt.

[1272] And then I thought, I just got to throw this money away.

[1273] This is bad money.

[1274] Get it out of your hands.

[1275] I felt so bad.

[1276] This is great.

[1277] And then I thought, this is fuck.

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] That's why you got to hang out with Bill Gates instead on that night.

[1280] Well, you didn't invite me. I got upset because I was like, well, I'm a competitive person.

[1281] it's part of my success and no I did think I thought like then am I not allowed to like play this game like the fun it's a fun like it's a very fun rowdy experience people are stealing people are and I'm like oh do I not get to play and can I tell you something the only fun moment I've had in that game was last year because it was very obvious I was stealing something for my daughter.

[1282] Exactly.

[1283] So I finally stole something that everyone wanted, this enormous teddy bear, and from the nicest person at the party bit.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] And so it was evil.

[1286] But I did it and I felt none of the awkwardness afterwards because it's so clear, oh, that dad's stealing for his kid.

[1287] Yeah, totally.

[1288] And it's great.

[1289] But that's the only time I've liked it.

[1290] Should have said I was stealing it for your kid.

[1291] The money.

[1292] The money.

[1293] Oh, great.

[1294] Right.

[1295] So it all went to the fucking central bank, I guess.

[1296] Listen, so then I got really panicked because Anna, our friend Anna, who we love, she picked, she got this candle.

[1297] It was a lotca -flavored candle or scented candle.

[1298] No one wanted that, obviously, you know.

[1299] And I told her, I was like, you can make that a kitchen candle, like make your kitchen smell nice, like, lockas.

[1300] Anyway, she, you know, every time everyone went up, she's like, remember there's this nice candle.

[1301] You know, this is what people do.

[1302] They try to like sell the items they don't want, hoping they'll get stolen.

[1303] Exactly.

[1304] So Anna was really pushing the candle over and over and over again.

[1305] Then I got super panicked when it was Kristen's turn.

[1306] Okay.

[1307] Because I was like, oh my God, Kristen's going to steal the candle for Anna and do the right thing.

[1308] The thing I didn't do.

[1309] And thank God she didn't.

[1310] She didn't.

[1311] But I would have thought the same thing.

[1312] I got so fucking scared.

[1313] I was like, oh no. It's like, but she's had so many years before me to learn these lessons.

[1314] Anyway, but she didn't.

[1315] She picked a gift out of the, from the tree.

[1316] Risky.

[1317] Risky.

[1318] Probably smart though, because then it's not.

[1319] It's like, hey, man, I don't know.

[1320] I just opened this.

[1321] No, but she could have got the drawers.

[1322] She could have got the drawers, but I would say even better.

[1323] Like if you open the money, you're like, oh, bummer, I got the money.

[1324] You know what I'm saying?

[1325] Of course.

[1326] You didn't have anything to do with it.

[1327] No, yeah.

[1328] I'm just worried about the drawers the whole time.

[1329] Of course.

[1330] Yeah, we kind of lost sight of the drawers.

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] We're getting there.

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] Anyway, so she opened up and she got some nice earrings.

[1335] So she did give them to Erica later.

[1336] Okay.

[1337] But that was, that is the game.

[1338] Neither here nor there.

[1339] Anyway, so.

[1340] Anyways, the drawer that we talked about.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] Someone did get it.

[1343] Yeah.

[1344] But instead of the enormous nightstand that it used to be, it had been made miniature somehow.

[1345] And then in the drawer were front row tickets to Adele.

[1346] So it was, that's a great plot twist.

[1347] But it had a blood hole at the end, at the back of it.

[1348] That's awesome.

[1349] It had a flesh like you could fuck it.

[1350] Oh, my goodness.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] Yeah, it had a doll ticket.

[1353] But that was really clever because no one wants it.

[1354] And then it was fun because, you know, who ended up with it, this couple that is the crafty.

[1355] They're the one, I think, that made it into the keg.

[1356] Like, they're extremely crafty and good.

[1357] They should have it.

[1358] That you should have it.

[1359] Yeah.

[1360] They're good stewards of that gift.

[1361] And then they get to go to a hotel.

[1362] Perfect.

[1363] Okay, that ended up too quick.

[1364] Oh.

[1365] Did you hear that?

[1366] Yeah, it sounded like, jangle bells.

[1367] Jingle bells.

[1368] A car's being stolen.

[1369] Anyway, so that was kind of a crazy ride.

[1370] I got a crazy update for you.

[1371] Tell me. So Lincoln had it in her mind.

[1372] over the last few days.

[1373] She's been tracking an animal in our yard.

[1374] Oh.

[1375] And she's been all over it.

[1376] She keeps updating.

[1377] There's scat outside and it's bigger than this and it's that.

[1378] And I think this is going on.

[1379] So this morning at 7 .15, I'm just starting my meditation.

[1380] And I hear screaming from down the hall.

[1381] And now both girls are running full pace.

[1382] Lincoln's screaming, I know it they're in the yard They're in the yard, they're in the yard I look out the window There's two coyotes Oh no need that It's fucking hanging on my grass Really?

[1383] Yes Don't they know They're not allowed To walk on the grass yet By the way That was one of the kids' grievances Because they're so pissed They can't walk on the grass And they're not supposed to walk on the grass I'm like we have bigger fish of fry We have two fucking dumb dogs here They jumped over the fence No because the gate is temporary And it is open so that you can get packages.

[1384] This morning?

[1385] This morning at 7 .15.

[1386] That could have eaten me when I walked.

[1387] I was thinking Liz leaves every morning out early.

[1388] I'm sure they watched her go.

[1389] But there were two very large coyotes.

[1390] Like I had lawn ornaments, right?

[1391] They're just in the dead middle of the lawn hanging.

[1392] And what about the dogs?

[1393] So I run to my closet.

[1394] I get my shoes on, my waterproof shoes, because it's also raining out.

[1395] Oh, right.

[1396] Get those on.

[1397] running downstairs i'm looking for some weapon there's none we're too peaceful i run outside they're clever by the way because i'm tracking through as i run through the house and i'm glancing out the windows to keep my eyes on them somehow the one knows we're stirring inside right because one starts getting on the move and then the other one's kind of looking by the time i run outside i grab the flimsyest mop in the world in fact this is a this is a side grievance i ordered this mop and dust pan from Amazon and it is so shitty and flimsy anyways I'm like here we go I was even imagining like if I'm starting swinging this thing that's gonna break this first hit and then it's hand to hand so I run out there they now take off I'm trying to catch them I'm gonna let these motherfuckers know my yard's not a place for you I have little kids here and I have two little dogs but don't you think they were seeing you is like enough no they need some kind of, I think they need to connect it with a little pain.

[1398] But what if then they attack you?

[1399] Bring it, motherfuckers.

[1400] I'm ready.

[1401] So I run out and I'm running up the driveway.

[1402] Mind you, it's been raining, right?

[1403] And my whole drive is mud.

[1404] I'm like now, I'm running through, and I'm up to my ankle.

[1405] You're slipping and sliding?

[1406] I'm sinking.

[1407] And I have this flimsy, useless weapon.

[1408] And as I'm getting within like probably 15 feet of them, they're now making their way out the gate, and I look, I drop the mop, the broom, and there's this really hard orange ball on the ground.

[1409] I snatch that up as I'm running.

[1410] I run out into the street.

[1411] They take off down your driveway.

[1412] They're running down your driveway.

[1413] I got so lucky.

[1414] I threw the ball as hard as I can.

[1415] I never played baseball.

[1416] I don't have good aim or anything.

[1417] I chucked this, because again, I want them to get a smack.

[1418] I want them to like, oh, you go in the yard, you get smacked.

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] So I chuck the ball as hard as I can.

[1421] It bounces right behind the one coyote.

[1422] Like, I'm like, whoa, that was pretty good.

[1423] And when it hits the ground, it bounces, it actually bounces up above the coyote, hits your neighbor.

[1424] He's got that metal sign hanging, the ADT, like an alarm company sign.

[1425] And so it bounces behind the coyote, goes above it.

[1426] And it's right as the coyote's passing the sign, fucking bullseye.

[1427] It bounced him smack right into that thing.

[1428] And then they shit themselves.

[1429] They, like the one just torpedoed the bush, that hedge that's in your backyard.

[1430] Like God knows, like, fuck it, I'm getting in here, no matter what it does do its face.

[1431] So then they scampered in different directions.

[1432] Whoa.

[1433] It was very exciting.

[1434] This was 7 .15 a man. That's a lot.

[1435] Wow.

[1436] And then I came back in and tried to meditate, and I was like, who's kidding here?

[1437] I just started drinking coffee.

[1438] Rock hard.

[1439] That ship is sad.

[1440] A rock hard.

[1441] so that was my morning yeah but by the way let me back up because right now you're you're in your car and you're really mad at me because i should be i should be encouraging the wild life to live in my yard literally last week all over the news guy pulls up in his driveway here in l .a his toddler hops out of the backseat have you seen this video toddler hops out of the backseat in their driveway middle of the afternoon and right as the the tahoe pulled in the driveway this coyote's already walking down down the street and comes right into the driveway, the little toddler hops out, immediately the coyote grabs it by its coat, starts dragging it away.

[1442] The dad now gets out of the car, here's something, he runs over and is able to chase the coyote off, but the coyote was dragging the toddler away.

[1443] Oh my god.

[1444] So I just saw that last week too, right?

[1445] And I'm like, also let me add, P -22, who I love, went in someone's house, House, Monica, a mountain.

[1446] I don't need to know that.

[1447] You kind of do.

[1448] What do I do?

[1449] You need to be fully armed.

[1450] You need a lady Remington, pink.

[1451] I love wildlife.

[1452] I really do.

[1453] I'm an animal nut.

[1454] I mean, not really.

[1455] I am.

[1456] No, you're not.

[1457] I studied them in college.

[1458] David is an animal nut.

[1459] You, like, can observe them, but you don't like.

[1460] I'm a season pass holder to the zoo and have been for 26 years in L .A. I've been to Africa to look at the animals.

[1461] I know everything about primates.

[1462] I got to love animals.

[1463] What I'm intolerant of is animals that are attacking humans.

[1464] I can't.

[1465] There's got to be some line.

[1466] I agree.

[1467] And so I have two little kids and I hate to tell anyone who's upset.

[1468] Two coyotes are not allowed to live in my yard when I have two little kids outside playing.

[1469] Not an option.

[1470] Definitely not.

[1471] That was DefCon 5.

[1472] Well, we were at DefCon 5, no alert.

[1473] We went up to DefCon 4.

[1474] And so today was a ball, you know.

[1475] The.

[1476] P -22?

[1477] So they're going to move P -22.

[1478] Okay.

[1479] Because they tracked Pete 22.

[1480] And the fact that he entered someone's house and got a dog.

[1481] Oh, he ate a dog.

[1482] He ate a dog.

[1483] But he didn't eat a person?

[1484] No. And they left the door open or it was like a flint.

[1485] So it's probably through a dog door.

[1486] Yeah.

[1487] I don't know this.

[1488] I'm just guessing.

[1489] Don't leave your door open.

[1490] Well, what if you have a dog door, though?

[1491] P -22 can't fit through a dog door.

[1492] The fuck he can't.

[1493] It's pretty big.

[1494] I mean, if you've got, no, well, if you've got a moderate -sized dog, your dog door is going to be big enough for an 80 -pound dog, it's big enough for P -22.

[1495] Anywho, they've been tracking it, and he's been doing a lot of erratic stuff, that being one of them.

[1496] And they've now gotten to the realization that they have to move him.

[1497] He's about to kill some human.

[1498] That's clear.

[1499] Like, that's what's coming next.

[1500] So they've already decided they're going to move them.

[1501] Where?

[1502] To your house.

[1503] Yeah, yeah.

[1504] Oh, my God.

[1505] Okay, Dick Branson.

[1506] Okay, yeah.

[1507] Okay, so there really aren't that many facts, so it's good that we talked about all this other stuff.

[1508] Yeah.

[1509] I mean, there's, like, none.

[1510] I even love stuff out.

[1511] Like, I have stuff for next carryover, yeah.

[1512] Okay, but this is our last armchair expert of the year.

[1513] Wait.

[1514] No. Every time I say this you get in.

[1515] I don't like it.

[1516] I don't like it at all.

[1517] It's like a week off, though.

[1518] It is one week off.

[1519] That's one week we're not in here talking like this.

[1520] I know.

[1521] I hate it.

[1522] Yeah.

[1523] I think we should just put out a fact check.

[1524] Anywho.

[1525] We're also going to have to get together for the Christmas episode.

[1526] Yes, of course.

[1527] No, and there are episodes.

[1528] There's the Christmas episode.

[1529] There's the best of.

[1530] There's a flightless bird.

[1531] There's a race to 35.

[1532] Okay.

[1533] So maybe we'll have a fact chat.

[1534] Whatever.

[1535] Let's not worry about it now.

[1536] Okay.

[1537] You're stressed.

[1538] But I'm stressing.

[1539] Monica says this is the last you're going to hear from us.

[1540] And I'm saying maybe not.

[1541] It's not the last you'll hear from us.

[1542] It's the last armchair expert interview of the year.

[1543] Okay.

[1544] Last fact.

[1545] Yeah, that I can.

[1546] No, he doesn't want to agree to that.

[1547] I can't agree to that.

[1548] These are terms I can't.

[1549] But it's the last armchair expert interview of the year.

[1550] Okay.

[1551] I can accept that.

[1552] Okay.

[1553] All right.

[1554] And we have Viva Magenta, 2020.

[1555] Oh, you're not, are you really, are you all in now?

[1556] Yeah, I'm all in also because this rowing company, uh, is sending me a rower in Viva Magenta.

[1557] I'm so excited.

[1558] I imagine.

[1559] What are you going to do it?

[1560] You have an oar?

[1561] No, like, you know, the machines.

[1562] Oh.

[1563] I thought you were getting an oar.

[1564] I'm like, what are you going to hang this on your wall?

[1565] That's going to look crazy.

[1566] You weren't on the road team or anything.

[1567] No, no. No, exercise machine.

[1568] Okay.

[1569] Okay, if you don't use that rower, I'll take it.

[1570] Like, get it.

[1571] Yeah, why don't you use it until my house is ready?

[1572] Okay, because I kind of want one.

[1573] Yeah, you can definitely use it.

[1574] Okay, great.

[1575] Oh, my gosh.

[1576] Okay, so the fact I did look up, I thought this was an endearing part of him that he considers himself to be an underdog.

[1577] Yes, yes, yes.

[1578] It's ding, ding, ding, ding why elephant party.

[1579] Like, no one wants to be at the party and not be able to take the cash.

[1580] Right, true.

[1581] Like you want to be able to play.

[1582] Okay, but I looked up British Airways Net Worth versus Virgin.

[1583] Because remember you...

[1584] Like market cap?

[1585] Yeah, I didn't really...

[1586] I just put British Airways...

[1587] It says $3 .21 billion.

[1588] Was there a yearly revenue, probably?

[1589] Net worth as of December 5th, 2022.

[1590] Okay.

[1591] Now, Virgin is tricky because it's not...

[1592] It's five different airlines, right?

[1593] It's talking about the Virgin group.

[1594] So it might also include the record.

[1595] Like I don't.

[1596] The hotels?

[1597] Exactly.

[1598] Um, and that's $5 billion.

[1599] But it's all the things.

[1600] Right.

[1601] So he's right that British Airways is bigger than Virgin Airlines.

[1602] Well, maybe because we're not quite sure what that pie is a virgin.

[1603] My guess is an Alaska Airway acquired Virgin America for $4 billion.

[1604] Hmm.

[1605] But that's.

[1606] It's just Virgin America.

[1607] Yeah, and then you got Virgin Atlantic.

[1608] You got Virgin.

[1609] For $4 billion?

[1610] Approximately $4 billion.

[1611] $4 billion.

[1612] Huh.

[1613] Okay.

[1614] I think the point is, it's like, he's a big guy.

[1615] He's a big boy.

[1616] Of course he's a big boy.

[1617] Yeah.

[1618] It's like, is McDonald's bigger than Taco Bell?

[1619] Yeah.

[1620] But is Taco Bell not an under?

[1621] No, it's not on any other.

[1622] Why does Mark Cuban have so much money?

[1623] Mark Cuban invented, I want to say, It was called like real player or audio player.

[1624] He sold it to AOL for about a billion dollars back in the day.

[1625] But then he invested it really well.

[1626] And he bought the Dallas Mavericks.

[1627] Right.

[1628] Is that, are you seeing that?

[1629] Micro Solutions was his, he sold for $6 million.

[1630] Six million, but go to the big boy.

[1631] And then he starts audio net.

[1632] There we go.

[1633] I think that might be.

[1634] No. It still doesn't ring the bell.

[1635] I think he invented an audio player, I believe.

[1636] Quick time?

[1637] No, but something like.

[1638] like that audio net and broadcast .com what did he say to sell to aOL for a billion dollars in the late 90s that's what we're that's where his real fortune oh my god Elon must 188 billion dollars down from 300 billion he had 300 billion for a minute I can't believe it what do you got a list of top billionaires or something yeah I mean just showing up all these all these other billionaires are showing up.

[1639] Oh.

[1640] So web logs?

[1641] No. It was acquired by AOL.

[1642] Oh, how much?

[1643] It doesn't say.

[1644] Okay.

[1645] Weblogs, that's a rough name.

[1646] Maybe they changed it.

[1647] Ice rocket.

[1648] No, it's not a new the audio, I thought.

[1649] Red Swish.

[1650] Maybe AOL changed the name.

[1651] Maybe it wasn't even AOL that bought it.

[1652] Well, good for him.

[1653] Anyway.

[1654] Fun guy.

[1655] Fun guy.

[1656] I mean, if Richard, Sir Richard, was at the White Elephant Party, If he wants to take the cold heart cash, let him.

[1657] Okay, now what if he did?

[1658] How would you feel personally?

[1659] I would feel like, oh my God.

[1660] Mm -hmm, mm -hmm, mm -hmm.

[1661] I know.

[1662] That's why, again, I'm a few years deeper into the thought of this.

[1663] You have to be compassionate and realistic about the limits of a human being.

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] And there's no way we're going to be excited that Richard Branson got the, you know, it's beyond the capacity of a human.

[1666] I get, I do.

[1667] So it's like, well, they're not all going to change.

[1668] How could they?

[1669] No. And so, no, what's my move within this paradigm?

[1670] Yeah, I get it.

[1671] Sympathy is, for the most part, off the table for you and will be increasingly so, which is a weird dynamic in life as a human.

[1672] But I only got two eggs.

[1673] Well, on your first go -around.

[1674] I think now that you've been off the pill for seven months, you might shit out 20 plus eggs.

[1675] That's nice of you.

[1676] It's not, that's not going.

[1677] Is that how you do what you shit about?

[1678] Yeah.

[1679] Everyone knows that.

[1680] Rob, this is known.

[1681] Yeah, when I was listening to that today, I was like, oh, man. I'm really sad.

[1682] That episode.

[1683] Oh, it reignited the sadness, yeah.

[1684] It sucks.

[1685] That'll be out by the time this airs.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] I just want to say I'm so proud of you.

[1688] Thanks.

[1689] Yeah.

[1690] If you remember when it happened, I urged you to talk about it?

[1691] To talk about it.

[1692] And you completely understandably were like, I don't think I can.

[1693] So I just think it's really brave of you that you did.

[1694] And it's the best kind of bravery.

[1695] It's the Jonah Hill bravery.

[1696] Yeah.

[1697] It's the kind we like the most.

[1698] It definitely made me feel very inadequate.

[1699] Uh -huh.

[1700] But, yeah, it wasn't an option to bring people on this journey and not give them the full story.

[1701] Yeah.

[1702] Yeah, ethically, that was nice of you, and integrity and greedy.

[1703] And greedy, yeah, because I'm so really greedy.

[1704] I feel like I got to give that money to charity.

[1705] I mean, I do give money to charity.

[1706] Yeah, and you have to put that on top of whatever.

[1707] Okay.

[1708] How much was it?

[1709] It was $220.

[1710] Wow.

[1711] That's a good amount of life.

[1712] You're mad about that much?

[1713] I know.

[1714] Well, they'll be, yeah, people hate you over.

[1715] by a bug.

[1716] The way you're talking about it, I thought it was like a grand.

[1717] Who gave that?

[1718] No, he did a cool thing.

[1719] He put it like in a box.

[1720] That was in a box.

[1721] I was in a box.

[1722] So it was fun unwrapping experience.

[1723] Oh, okay.

[1724] And then it was.

[1725] And then pot kept growing.

[1726] Yeah.

[1727] And I mean, Amy, who opened it first, I didn't steal from her.

[1728] I would never steal the money from her.

[1729] But she got stolen from a lot.

[1730] People weren't playing by the rules.

[1731] But she opened it first and she ruined a lot of the boxes.

[1732] But I would have been happy to keep the box.

[1733] as well for my gift wrapping station.

[1734] Like, I'm just...

[1735] Maybe even bring it home from your mom to put some presents in because she's lazy as fuck.

[1736] So lazy.

[1737] When do you...

[1738] Go home?

[1739] Yeah, what date do you go home?

[1740] The 21st.

[1741] Okay.

[1742] And then I'm back the second on your birthday.

[1743] Yeah.

[1744] Me too.

[1745] Maybe I'll see you at the airport.

[1746] Oh, maybe we could ride home together.

[1747] I can plan on that.

[1748] Depending...

[1749] I want to use that 220 you stole from everyone.

[1750] To get a car service.

[1751] To get a car service.

[1752] All right, well, Merry Christmas.

[1753] Merry Christmas.

[1754] Merry, Merry, Merry, Merry.

[1755] Happy holiday.

[1756] I hope everyone's really warm right now and drinking something cozy and in a stuffy costume.

[1757] Watching a movie.

[1758] Snuggling.

[1759] Yeah, snuggling.

[1760] Feeling warm.

[1761] Coming back from chasing a coyote, fully engorged.

[1762] I do not wish coyotes upon anyone listening.

[1763] Unless, like, there is a segment of our country that they would love it.

[1764] And that's great for the.

[1765] those people.

[1766] No, they would actually love that they live there.

[1767] Oh, I see.

[1768] Maybe even kill deer and bring them back to the yard and eat them in the yard and just really set up shop in their yard.

[1769] Those would be people presumably without small pets or people in their house.

[1770] But there is a group that wants coyotes in their backyard.

[1771] I wish we could figure out how those people could label their properties and then we could figure out a system to like, if you want them, take them.

[1772] If you don't want them, get out of my yard.

[1773] Do you think though, even if you didn't have the kids, Wouldn't you be protective of Kristen?

[1774] Well, the dogs, which...

[1775] And the dogs.

[1776] But you hate the dogs.

[1777] But I will deal with very sad kids.

[1778] For a very long time, a very sad wife.

[1779] My whole house will be in mourning for a very long time.

[1780] That's true.

[1781] That would make me really sad, too.

[1782] If one of the dogs died.

[1783] Yeah, I do like those dogs.

[1784] One more than the other, but yes, for me. Yeah, and surprisingly for me, it's...

[1785] Opposite.

[1786] Yeah.

[1787] Like, Frank is...

[1788] damaged, but he doesn't look it, so people don't give him as much compassion.

[1789] A beautiful mess, like these girls who tattooed.

[1790] No, I hate that.

[1791] No one can see that.

[1792] This curious position you've taken on, Frank, it really is.

[1793] It seems to violate other tenets of your...

[1794] Really?

[1795] Yeah, but that's fine.

[1796] It does it!

[1797] Yeah, he's got all the advantages.

[1798] He's like cute.

[1799] He could be the most likable dog ever.

[1800] But instead, he tries to bite someone once every two weeks.

[1801] Well, someone hurt him.

[1802] No, I don't think so.

[1803] He's had a pretty He was at a shelter.

[1804] Yeah, because the person who had him before didn't want to get bit.

[1805] Is that why?

[1806] Yes.

[1807] I think they hurt him.

[1808] Okay.

[1809] Chris says the reason he puts his paw up like this is because he has anxiety.

[1810] I mean, that's a lot of your, that's a lot of assumptions that are being made.

[1811] Maybe that's the case, but that's, that's out there.

[1812] That wouldn't hold up in any social science.

[1813] You know what it is?

[1814] Frank's like nice to me. Yeah.

[1815] And he's soft.

[1816] And you've even admitted it.

[1817] It's like being horny for a serial killer He doesn't bite you Exactly He protects me Even though he might hurt others Warning The rest of this fact check Contains spoilers about the season finale Of White Lotus Did you watch White Lotus last night?

[1818] Yes What did you think?

[1819] Loved it You did Yeah I liked it a lot It left me feeling a little Like Huh Like did I like You know, I really had to think.

[1820] Of course you feel bad for Alby, right?

[1821] Like, that's going to happen.

[1822] Yeah.

[1823] But in some weird way, when that's that last shot...

[1824] Did you watch it?

[1825] Yeah.

[1826] Yeah.

[1827] The last shot of the hookers walking down the street.

[1828] I'm like, that's right, girls.

[1829] Like, you got it.

[1830] You got everything.

[1831] You got the job at the thing.

[1832] You got rid of the bad guy.

[1833] You got all the money from the rich people.

[1834] I don't think Albie cared either.

[1835] He didn't seem to care.

[1836] Yeah, I think he knew it was a possibility and it came from his dad.

[1837] So...

[1838] I'm still not, like, I don't like having to fuck over.

[1839] over someone in order to win.

[1840] Right.

[1841] But I will say this.

[1842] It actually caused a really interesting debate.

[1843] I paused it when he was asking his dad for the money.

[1844] Yeah.

[1845] And I said, boy, this would be really tough for me. Because my thoughts as a parent is like, my job is to turn you over to the world prepared.

[1846] Yep.

[1847] And I can't enable you to be fooled.

[1848] This reckless.

[1849] And I know you're getting screwed.

[1850] I mean, that's what the dad was saying.

[1851] Yes.

[1852] And so Kristen said, no, you just give them the money.

[1853] They're going to find out they were the mark.

[1854] And then when they find out, they're also going to know you knew they were marked and you gave them the money anyways because you love them.

[1855] So they're going to learn their lesson.

[1856] That's unavoidable.

[1857] And they know that you help them even though you disagreed with it, which is powerful.

[1858] And then the way it all shook out, when I saw it play out in real time, I was like, wow, that was the right move for the dad.

[1859] Because he, He knows his dad violated his own sense of it on his behalf.

[1860] It wasn't, though.

[1861] It was for him.

[1862] It was a selfish move.

[1863] That's true.

[1864] In that situation, it's true.

[1865] If it had happened to me, again, it would be so hard for me to give Lincoln 50 grand to throw at some scammer.

[1866] Yeah.

[1867] Yes, yes.

[1868] But having seen how it all ends up, like fast forwarding six months later, I do think probably the right move.

[1869] I don't know I really don't know You learn the lesson More significantly If you're the victim of it Then I tell you you're getting screwed And then for the rest of your life You have the question mark Was I?

[1870] I think I was right Maybe he's wrong Yeah I guess that's That part is true But people don't always learn Their fucking lessons Like they at all People that are gullible Are pretty gullible And then it didn't cost them anything Yeah it didn't cost that motherfucker At all So why What lesson is he He's not feeling the weight of that money gone.

[1871] True.

[1872] It's just kind of a 30 ,000 foot view of it where you go, like, what's my mission with these kids and when on my deathbed, what was it?

[1873] Well, my mission was just to love them blindly whether they're...

[1874] Yeah, I guess to me, loving someone blindly should be so disconnected from money or things.

[1875] To me, that's like giving your alcoholic kid booze.

[1876] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1877] No, that's bad for them.

[1878] Which my dad did do.

[1879] Right.

[1880] All right, well, stay warm out there.

[1881] Peace and love.

[1882] Happy holidays.

[1883] Love you.

[1884] Hold on a second.

[1885] Oh, yeah.

[1886] Bells?

[1887] Yeah, I thought.

[1888] They're in here, some.

[1889] Every other thing in the world is over in that corner.

[1890] It's a fun corner.

[1891] Listen to all that.

[1892] It's like when Snoopy goes into his dog house and he has every single thing in the world inside of his doghouse.

[1893] Oh, this is kind of like, this is, um, a Hawaiian Christmas.

[1894] You know, Mechakaliki, maho is the thing you say on a boy, Hawaiian Christmas day.

[1895] Oh, my Godaliki.

[1896] Oh, my God.

[1897] So we don't have the bells, but we have every other thing.

[1898] We do have so many noise.

[1899] just not the Christmas What's this one?

[1900] It's like thunder.

[1901] Oh.

[1902] Well, that was a misfire.

[1903] All right.

[1904] Well, I hope everyone has to...

[1905] I hope that's on a harbinger of the Christmas to come.

[1906] No, don't say that.

[1907] Don't say that.

[1908] We'll have bells for the holiday episode.

[1909] Oh, okay.

[1910] I love you.

[1911] Happy holidays.

[1912] Have so much fun.

[1913] And happy New Year.

[1914] Ashok.

[1915] Nimmie, I love you guys.

[1916] Neil, I love you.

[1917] All the Padmans.

[1918] All the Shepherds.

[1919] all the haunchels.

[1920] Let's give a shout to the honchels.

[1921] And the honchels.

[1922] All right.

[1923] Love you.

[1924] Love you.

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