EXPERTS ON EXPERT: Sanjay Gupta

[0] Welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert.

[1] We have a very fun, exciting guest today, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

[2] You probably recognize Sanjay from his work on CNN.

[3] He is their in -house medical expert.

[4] He covers an array of topics for them.

[5] He's won an Emmy doing that.

[6] Do you know that, Monica?

[7] I didn't know that, but I'm not surprised at all.

[8] He also does cool specials.

[9] And, in fact, he's here to talk about a docu -series that he's doing on who is.

[10] is crushing it around the globe with different health aspects.

[11] There are people that are doing it well, and we would be wise to model ourselves after them.

[12] It's called chasing life.

[13] Chasing life with Dr. Sanjay Gupta on CNN.

[14] It's going to be a fantastic program.

[15] Now, in all honesty, we had a small window with Sanjay.

[16] Oh, too small.

[17] And then traffic intervened.

[18] Yeah.

[19] And it cut that down even shorter.

[20] So just know, this was a thrilling 50 -minute interview for us that we wanted to go on for two, three hours.

[21] And I'm going to, I'm going to be the first to say he's coming back.

[22] Yeah, our apologies for it being too short.

[23] And because you are definitely going to be wanting more.

[24] Yeah, because he is juicy.

[25] Yeah, he's great.

[26] He's really fantastic.

[27] So please enjoy Sanjay Gupta.

[28] Also, just a reminder tomorrow tickets for our live show in Seattle go on sale at 10 a .m. Pacific time.

[29] Go to our website.

[30] There'll be a link there to get tickets.

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[32] Please enjoy The Good Doctor.

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[36] Sanjay, welcome to Armchair Expert.

[37] Experts on Experts.

[38] You fall into the experts category, which is very distinguished.

[39] I'm honored by that, yeah.

[40] Yeah, as you should be.

[41] Wow, I didn't think of it like that.

[42] So what was so fun for me is that your folks in 1960 moved from India to Livonia.

[43] That's right.

[44] Where in Livonia did you live?

[45] Right by the Wonderland Mall.

[46] Oh, okay.

[47] There was an Arby's there.

[48] So Harrison, yes, that's right.

[49] And a ponderosa across the street by Kmart.

[50] You really know the B &B, a little drugstore?

[51] Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[52] So if you went down that street, that's where our house was.

[53] Now, it's interesting, they moved to just outside of Dearborn first.

[54] They worked at Ford, right?

[55] They're both engineers.

[56] Yeah.

[57] Both?

[58] Both of them.

[59] That's really unique and cool.

[60] Yeah, my mom was a mechanical, my dad electrical, and my mom was the first woman ever hired as an engineer.

[61] Really?

[62] Ford Motor Company.

[63] Wow.

[64] Isn't that great?

[65] That's awesome.

[66] Yeah, it's pretty cool.

[67] Yeah.

[68] And she was a partition child in India.

[69] So in 1947, there's this gigantic partition.

[70] India is broken up into India in Pakistan.

[71] Uh -huh.

[72] He's four or five years old.

[73] Flees from what is now Pakistan to India.

[74] Uh -huh.

[75] And 12 years lives as a refugee.

[76] Lives in refugee camps.

[77] Gets into a cargo boat, right?

[78] Exactly.

[79] A cargo ship to India.

[80] Goes down to Karachi.

[81] And it's funny when you live this life.

[82] with her and it's just so part of your thing and you never really talk about and then i hear someone like you actually know the story it's all bonkers right it's bonkers yeah because it's just such a part of our life but yeah so she then then decide she wants to be an engineer one day which is uh what what do you know what uh cars she worked on in particular was she assigned to a platform or anything yeah she did a bunch of they they had various cars so the tourists and the torus chassis uh -huh was a big one shared with by the with the sable the mercury sable You know, your cars, yes.

[83] They had a very exciting edition called The Show, the Show Taurus, which had a Yamaha engine.

[84] The super high output.

[85] Yes, Marine Engine.

[86] Yeah.

[87] And every now and then she'd get to bring these cars home just as a test thing.

[88] Yeah.

[89] And I was, you know, turning about 15, 16 at the time.

[90] It was fantastic.

[91] Similarly, we had a stepdad for a few years who was the ride and handling engineer in the Corvette group.

[92] So he not only brought home Corvettes before they came out, but they also owned.

[93] all these competitive vehicles, so he would have Lotus of Spree, Ferrari, a Lamborghini Kuntash.

[94] That's cool.

[95] Yeah.

[96] Was it worth it in the end, but it was very cool.

[97] Right.

[98] But now, so Livonia, now, so my grandparents lived at, off a merriman between five and six.

[99] Yep.

[100] And I spent all my summers there.

[101] And my grandma taught at Stevenson High, but you didn't go there.

[102] You went to Novi, huh?

[103] I went to Novi.

[104] We moved at some point in their eighth grade.

[105] end of eighth grade.

[106] We moved a few times because it was Dearborn.

[107] We were in Livonia.

[108] And even with Livonia, we moved a couple times.

[109] And it's funny because I still go back and no family there anymore.

[110] My parents left, but I still go back and check out the old neighborhood.

[111] And it's wild to go back.

[112] It really is, right?

[113] Well, first of all, there is such a specific atmospheric feeling in Michigan, especially if you're there like late spring, early summer.

[114] There's just a quality to the air for me that is so nostalgic.

[115] Yeah.

[116] And I just, I find it intoxicating.

[117] So I, too, go back just to get that kind of high of that late spring, early summer feeling.

[118] I totally know what you mean.

[119] And it's funny because people talk about the Midwest and they, you know, the values and it's just a good place and all that.

[120] Mm -hmm.

[121] And you can, you can talk about all that.

[122] But you're right.

[123] There's something that's less, less easily, you know, defined.

[124] Yes.

[125] Smell, it's the feel of the place.

[126] And there's something visceral there for me. Yeah.

[127] Now, Novi High, not a ton of diversity.

[128] I can't imagine that you had a ton of...

[129] I think I was the only Indian kid.

[130] I think I may have been the only kid that had any color in my skin at all.

[131] Sure.

[132] When I was going to school there.

[133] Interesting, I have a brother who's 10 years younger than me. He also went to school there, and it had started to change at that point.

[134] Yeah.

[135] But, yeah, I mean, and it's funny when you're the only person who's a person of color, you then are ascribed every ethnicity.

[136] Oh, absolutely.

[137] Yeah, you just fill in for all of them.

[138] He's like, is he Iranian?

[139] Sure.

[140] Well, we have a huge our population in Detroit, so I'm sure people thought you were Kaldian sometimes.

[141] Exactly.

[142] It was all that.

[143] And it was a good school.

[144] I had a good experience.

[145] But I think no matter what, when you're the only guy that's different, there's, I don't know what I would call it.

[146] I guess it's more xenophobia because it's not even, like, racism would imply that they somehow even knew what my race was.

[147] Sure.

[148] And then felt superior to that, you've been race.

[149] this was more like he's another yes other yes you know and so i'm going to have a fear of others you know and so there was a little bit of that and then you know everything so it's your name it's a type of food you eat it's your religion your parents names you know it's it's weird well as well is first generation i know and a half yeah we don't really know how to say her mother did grow up in savannah but dad did move from india gotcha but she's indian your mom yeah yeah yeah Yeah.

[150] But they moved when she was six, so she really grew up there.

[151] Oh, Monica's 100 % pure.

[152] We did the 23 and me, and she is as pure as it gets.

[153] Yeah.

[154] Nothing else in there.

[155] Yeah.

[156] Proud of it.

[157] But she similarly grew up in Atlanta, Georgia.

[158] And so she very much wanted to be white.

[159] Did you.

[160] That true?

[161] Oh, yeah.

[162] Did everything I could to be as white as possible.

[163] Just to fit in?

[164] Yeah.

[165] I mean, I assume.

[166] I mean, it happens so early that I wouldn't really be able to pinpoint like, oh, I'm doing this.

[167] now, but I'm sure it was just wanting to fit in with everybody else and being accepted.

[168] How did your parents, how do those conversations go with them about that?

[169] Or did you even have conversations?

[170] If I could say from as an outsider, very progressive, not as traditional as you would imagine.

[171] Oh, they're not traditional at all.

[172] But, I mean, of course, when I would come home and say, like, I wish I had blonde hair or something, like they'd be like, my mom would just roll our eyes at most of those comments.

[173] but she wouldn't really, we didn't really have many big conversations about it.

[174] I mean, I wish we had, because she probably could have said, like, why that was wrong, but she was just like, okay.

[175] Just watch friends and, yeah, do all the white girl stuff.

[176] Yeah.

[177] But we had another, we had a guest on here, Rushma.

[178] Kind of similar dynamic as Monica, and then went the other way.

[179] So it's kind of like you can either really assimilate or you can attempt to assimilate and it doesn't work, so then you find your tribe.

[180] And in Rushma's case, she ended up hanging out with other Southeast Asian, folks that she assembled kind of a crew of some Asian kids and so you know so what was your method?

[181] Well, so it's interesting I don't know how old you were when you wanted to be white but when I was a kid Well she's 31 Stage one probably But I wanted to change my name Oh sure I wanted to be Steve Sure That's as American as it gets Yeah and it was Steve Austin Yeah A $6 million man You're too young for that You don't remember I know it.

[182] Okay, all right.

[183] But Steve Austin.

[184] So my name started with the desk.

[185] Steve, you know, it seemed like a very, and that was going to fix everything.

[186] Oh, sure, sure.

[187] Went to my mom.

[188] And it's interesting, I told my mom, and I think it was probably six, seven years old.

[189] And interestingly now, especially when I look back on it, her immediate response was, all right, let's do it.

[190] Uh -huh.

[191] Like maybe that was a thing she could give me. Sure.

[192] Because she maybe recognized that maybe it is hard for, you know, a little Indian kid.

[193] in a very, very homogenous small town.

[194] I'm going to add blue collar to that mix, too.

[195] We live in a very blue -collar town.

[196] I mean, where we lived on Harrison Street, that street, you know this area, but that was, that was blue -collar town.

[197] Oh, my grandpa was in the Wonderbread Bakery Union, you know.

[198] You know, it was a lot of union workers, a lot of line workers, you know, wonderful place to live.

[199] But that's what it was.

[200] And then she said to me, are you sure you want to do this, you know, I mean, because, you know, maybe you shouldn't try and be like everybody else.

[201] It was sort of that same thing that your friend, Reshma, I guess, went through, do I assimilate, do I not?

[202] And I decided that I did not want to assimilate.

[203] And I'll tell you, I think that was like a really pivotal point in my life.

[204] Because the idea then of embracing your differences, I didn't really necessarily go hang out with a lot of South Asians after that or anything in particular.

[205] But I think for the first time I saw myself as an individual.

[206] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[207] Which I know it's kind of a weird thing to say, especially when you're five or six years old, but it was, but I still remember that really.

[208] Well, no, as a comedian, that's the end goal.

[209] And it can take people 30 years to find their voice, basically.

[210] And to be distinctive.

[211] Yeah, yeah, to own what their difference is and not run from them.

[212] Here's another thing, and I'll just throw a hypothetical at you.

[213] You're obviously an incredible student, right?

[214] You ended up going to U of M. And do you believe that had you been super embraced in busy riding bikes and building forts with all the blue -collar white kids, would stay?

[215] Studies have had the same priority.

[216] Is your life on a different...

[217] Are you at a vantage point now that you could go, oh, well, that thing that was challenging probably defined me and made me the person I want to be.

[218] That's a really good question.

[219] I think that what I would say is that I think the difference was I was able to dig deep into topics that interested me because I wasn't out building forts, riding bikes and stuff like that.

[220] Yeah.

[221] I think I could have done well in school without having to dig deep into those topics.

[222] And just saved all that for college, maybe?

[223] Yeah.

[224] Right.

[225] And so I was able to have more interests.

[226] You know, some of them were academic.

[227] Some of them were just interests.

[228] I got interested in history.

[229] I got interested in, like, I was thinking about medicine, but I wasn't sure, but I got interested in the history of medicine.

[230] Just like, how did it happen?

[231] It's a pretty gory history.

[232] It is a gourd.

[233] Like, at what point do you think, okay, it's okay for me to cut somebody open and try and heal them?

[234] Be sure.

[235] Like, it's just that pivotal inflection point in medicine was so interesting to me. Or even didn't they, like, during the, you know, enlightenment they would take they were like paying grave guys to get in there and open up some bodies because they really weren't allowed to that's how you that's how they started to learn anatomy the early stuff's based on like equestrian stuff right like they could they cut up horses and they're like I guess this is probably maps on pretty well right body body yeah the yeah it was all it was all animals I mean it was considered you know just absolutely sacrilegious to to think about opening the body some of the first operations where they would take these flints these kind of sharp, hard rocks and basically hit the skull to basically let out these bad humors and rhubors and dolors.

[236] But what's amazing about that is they were successful because there is, if you're forensic osteologists, they healed.

[237] That's right.

[238] Isn't that nuts?

[239] How do you know all that?

[240] Anthropology.

[241] That's amazing.

[242] And it was down in the Aztecs, right?

[243] They could open up the skull and it healed.

[244] We don't know how those patients did.

[245] We don't have a lot of medical records from back then.

[246] Right.

[247] But, you know, when, when you're something, Somebody has trauma, which is how most people died early on.

[248] If you had trauma to the head, you got bleeding.

[249] And the whole thing about the skull, unlike any other place in the body, is it's hard.

[250] So if you have bleeding, the blood has nowhere to go.

[251] If you open up the skull, you just relieve some of the pressure.

[252] You can actually save somebody's life.

[253] So when that pressure builds up, does it start constricting the brain itself and preventing oxygen from getting?

[254] Like, what's actually killing it at that point?

[255] There's three things that are basically in the intracranial cavity and the skull.

[256] all cavity.

[257] The brain, blood vessels, and cerebral spinal fluid.

[258] And they have a, you have a fixed ratio of these things any given time.

[259] Right.

[260] When you start to add something else, in this case, blood, which is pushing on the brain, the brain itself starts to get inflamed and there's no place for it to go.

[261] So the blood vessels that are providing blood to the brain, they get, they get constricted.

[262] Okay.

[263] And so you start losing oxygenated blood to the brain.

[264] And also the blood that's trying to get out of the brain can't leave right so the brain starts to swell yeah and that's the real problem the brain swells eventually it pushes down into the spinal canal and that's what's called herniation that's a term that people use in the medical community but when some when the brain is herniated it means it's pushed down into the spinal canal oh interesting that's how that's what direction it moves that's that's that's right oh wow pushes on the brain stem and you lose your ability to breathe on your own to regulate your heart rate and it just occurred to me you know everything about brains, obviously.

[265] I love the brain.

[266] theoretically, you should.

[267] Yeah, you're a neurosurgeon.

[268] When I decided to keep my name, that's when I decided to study the brain.

[269] Let's quickly, because I think most people don't know this, and this was one of my more fascinating things I learned in Anthro was that Neanderthal, that their brain was about 1650 cc's in size, and that the modern Homo sapiens sapiens, like 1 ,500.

[270] And then, so it's quite conceivable.

[271] that they were smarter than us it's supposed to be a pejorative to be called a Neanderthal but it's kind of weirdly a compliment right you were smarter than me no no no no no no no he just wants you to think so so that's right I had four things I thought about and I'm already through two of them so I'm gonna pace myself yeah you've already stumped me twice I did not know that but you know big size of brain the density of the neurons and certain parts of the brain there's parts of the brain that are called eloquent parts of the brain.

[272] That is what they're called, and that's because they are the most functional parts of the brain.

[273] So not all of your brain is super functional.

[274] I mean, it's more like you have a bunch of cities, and then you have a bunch of roads to allow those cities to connect, and much of the brain is the roads.

[275] But there are some cities, and you want those cities to be the most densely packed, eloquent parts.

[276] And so it's more about those areas than the overall size of the brain.

[277] Okay.

[278] Um, now, uh, also really fun too, right, is, is convolutions, right?

[279] Explain that.

[280] Because it's also about surface area, right?

[281] That's right.

[282] You could have a gigantic brain, but if it was smooth, you, you, you wouldn't have nearly the same, the same surface area.

[283] So you have all this cortex.

[284] If you unravel it, it's, it's much, much bigger than the brain itself.

[285] It's because you have the ridges and valleys.

[286] And this was interesting.

[287] Everyone always looked at, thought about Einstein and they said, you know, when his brain was actually examined and it was, um, they don't know.

[288] know this for sure but he seemed to have a lot more of these ridges and valleys these convolutions within a particular area the right parietal lobe as it turns out oh really which is really responsible for spatial relations like how we actually can place ourselves in space and time oh that kind of makes sense what's relativity right maybe maybe that's where you know it came for for him and he just he just got some of these concepts much much more easily yeah than other people i remember that concept being explained when looking at elephant brains because they're highly convoluted Right.

[289] That's right.

[290] That's right.

[291] They say they have incredible memory.

[292] Yeah.

[293] And then there's, you know, if you go to the reptiles, you do get much smoother brains.

[294] They're much more animals of reflex, you know.

[295] Right.

[296] And the reflexes are what drives most of their function as opposed to actually conscious awareness.

[297] I mean, they have conscious awareness, but, you know, that's not as big a part of their brain.

[298] Yeah.

[299] What kind of things promote and or diminish brain health?

[300] Is there any, because I was taught in biology, that's gray matter, right?

[301] Those aren't somatic cells.

[302] They don't go through mitosis.

[303] It can't really heal itself.

[304] Is that all true, or is there anything that can be promoted with your brain?

[305] I think, you know, the long -held belief was that, you know, neurons as well as cardiac cells, once those died, you weren't going to get them back.

[306] And I think over the last 20, 30 years, people have realized that that's probably not the case.

[307] Oh, really?

[308] That you can have regrowth, and you can also have different areas the brain take on different purposes, which is called plasticity.

[309] The idea that your brain can become plastic and malleable.

[310] You know, we can point very specifically to a part of the brain, and I can tell you that this is your right hand function.

[311] It would actually be on the left side of the brain, left hand, left side of the brain controls the right side of the body.

[312] And if someone has a stroke right there and they lose upper extremity function, at some point in the future, they could regain that strength because other areas of the brain close to that motor area could take over.

[313] So the motor area does grow back, other areas start to chip in and that's sort of relatively new thinking over the last few decades.

[314] Yeah, well, that's kind of comforting.

[315] It is.

[316] It's totally changed the way we think about stroke rehabilitation, brain injury overall, even things like concussions that have led to some sort of longer -term problem.

[317] Yeah, CTE.

[318] Exactly.

[319] So, CT is a big deal.

[320] It is, right?

[321] Yeah, yeah.

[322] 10 years ago, most people in the scientific community and even the neurological community didn't think it really existed.

[323] Really?

[324] So we have had a new neurological disorder in our lifetime that's been defined and now accepted, which is kind of, that doesn't happen very often.

[325] Right.

[326] But CTE due to concussions, typically from, you know, significant blows to the head, is a new thing.

[327] Now, is it that the damaged brain itself in CTA is coming from each specific impact, or does it reach a critical mass where it now starts just destroying brain on its own?

[328] It appears to be due to this repeated blows to the head.

[329] So some people seem to be more vulnerable than others.

[330] So even with fewer hits to the head at a younger age, they've already developed evidence of CTE in the brain.

[331] I personally have seen this tragically in the autopsy of a 17 -year -old.

[332] really football player he died he had taken a blow to the head while playing football and then took a second blow to the head and that's called second impact syndrome and that's probably what led to his death but they you know the family asked for an autopsy and within his brain he had these deposits of of these plaques you know like amyloid and things that you'd see in an alzheimer's patient uh -huh you saw it in the 17 year old's brain is that because there's just pooled blood in there that kind of gets uh viscous or something they're not They're not sure.

[333] They think that the proteins, the amyloid and the tau that they're called, are responding probably to some sort of injury.

[334] They're not blood per se.

[335] They're proteins, you know, but they're coming probably in response to the brain being injured.

[336] There's been a belief that if we have these infections early on in life that may not cause us to be sick, we wouldn't even know that we had them, but that the brain responds to that infection and lays down all this amyloid and tau, these proteins.

[337] And then later on in life, that leads to symptoms of Alzheimer's, you know, memory loss and functional problems.

[338] So is it an infectious disease early in life that leads to Alzheimer's later on?

[339] We don't know, but that, I mean, they're starting to look at all these different possibilities.

[340] I've also heard people talking recently, too, about like gum health and that that can migrate and cross the blood barrier.

[341] Is that true?

[342] That is, your mouth and your gums are a potential large source of inflammation.

[343] in the body.

[344] And so when you have inflammation, you know, you're basically, you're, you're telling your body's immune system, release the hounds, release all the inflammatory cells.

[345] And when those inflammatory cells now are in the bloodstream, they can go anywhere.

[346] So they cross the blood brain barrier.

[347] They can make plaques in the heart worse.

[348] So, you know, people say gingivitis associated with heart disease.

[349] Oh, wow.

[350] Explain that to me. Well, the common denominator is inflammation.

[351] Uh -huh.

[352] So, yeah, that's, that's a huge thing.

[353] And it's such a simple problem to sort of, you know, address.

[354] Yes.

[355] Inflammation in the mouth.

[356] This is discomforting as someone with an autoimmune disease and inflammation.

[357] You have autoimmune disease?

[358] Uh -huh.

[359] I have psoriotic arthritis.

[360] My wife suffers from that.

[361] She does.

[362] Yeah.

[363] I would love to hear your opinion because I have a total just armchair layman's theory on all these autoimmune things, which is I think we're all allergic to a bunch of food.

[364] We just don't know what it is.

[365] And then it manifests itself in all kinds of autoimmune things.

[366] Oh my God.

[367] Oh, my God.

[368] So, look, we need like another hour, okay?

[369] I just tell you really quickly.

[370] And this may sound familiar to you.

[371] For her, steroids, methotrexate, emerald, humera, o tesla.

[372] She's been on all these drugs, right?

[373] She did the TNF inhibitors, you know, all these things.

[374] And there were times when the doctors said, look, this is a medication that is probably going to shorten your life.

[375] It's cardiac toxic.

[376] It's toxic to the heart.

[377] But we think it's the only thing it's going to work.

[378] But here's the reason I'm bringing that up, to your point.

[379] In the end, it is quite possible that she has an allergy to something known as Basalm of Peru, which is a naturally occurring substance in Peru and trees, but it's used as a food additive to all sorts of different things.

[380] It's so ubiquitous you don't have to label for it.

[381] Oh, wow.

[382] And they believe that it is an allergy that subsequently has caused her immune system to flare up and look like psoriotic arthritis.

[383] So she gets the joint symptoms and we'll get rashes in these sort of odd places and the whole thing.

[384] And it's been really wild.

[385] And by the way, I got to tell you, I'm a doc and I'm a medical reporter, so I kind of know the medical system.

[386] I don't know what it was like for you, but that was the most challenging thing to navigate and figure out how to get her care.

[387] And I am so skeptical and cynical on everything.

[388] And it took me going through every single Western medical option before my wife finally forced me to go do.

[389] to Poncha Karma cleanse with an Aravadic.

[390] I never say that correctly, but - Ayurvedic, yeah, yes.

[391] And lo and behold, after 10 days with them on mung beans and rice, I had no inflammation.

[392] They gave me a diet.

[393] When I follow that diet to the letter, I'm pretty pain -free.

[394] It's very hard to follow, but by far of anything I've tried, that's been the most successful.

[395] And that's why I was just like, I mean, I don't think the Aravics know scientifically why it's working.

[396] It doesn't really matter to me. but it worked for me. It's maybe a restrictive diet.

[397] It's insulating you from the things that maybe you were reacting to in some way, I guess, you know?

[398] Yeah, and again, they didn't do blood samples, which is where I'm saying, I don't think they were looking for markers of anything, yet here we are.

[399] This woman said, here's what you're going to eat.

[400] I did it, and it worked.

[401] So what am I going to do?

[402] Look, I mean, some of that stuff has just been around for a thousand years, right?

[403] We always want the double -blinded, randomized trial, the evidence.

[404] And look, I'm all for that.

[405] But the thing is that who's going to do the trial on the beans and rice diet for psoriatic arthritis?

[406] Are we going to take 10 ,000 people and say, you eat this, 10 ,000 people, you eat this, and then follow them for years and that's never going to happen.

[407] Also, to your point, they've been recording.

[408] Now, whether or not they're getting into the theoretical end of what they're recording, they have been recording the health of people for a thousand years, the Arvetic.

[409] So it's kind of like Marconi coming up with the wireless transmitter.

[410] He didn't know scientifically on a physics level or chemical level what he was doing, but by his trial and error, he did figure it out.

[411] That's right.

[412] I kind of file it under that category.

[413] It's like, well, they might not know, but they know.

[414] I think so, and I think it's too easy to, you know, frankly, and I'm not saying this, you know, I grew up in an Indian household, so there was a lot of sort of Ayurvedic teachings, even though my parents are not doctors.

[415] But, you know, in some ways, people are very dismissive of these things.

[416] and there's a sentiment sometimes if it's not made in America, if it's not stamped, made in America, that it doesn't have value or it has less value.

[417] And first of all, some of these traditions have held up for hundreds, if not thousand years, and that's gotta mean something.

[418] Yes.

[419] And then Carol, I don't know if you went to Carol when you were doing the cleanse and stuff, but that's where a lot of this stuff happens and you have some of the highest literacy and health and overall, you know, sort of wellness rates in the entire country.

[420] So there's evidence, you know, of living that sort of Ayurvedic life can be beneficial.

[421] And I've seen it.

[422] I got a chance to go to Carol and see that.

[423] And it's pretty...

[424] Where's Carol?

[425] Carola.

[426] That's where my parents are from.

[427] Oh, really?

[428] Mm -hmm.

[429] Oh.

[430] I had never been to...

[431] You know, it's funny.

[432] India's country, and then it's like 20 countries because you can go to different places and it's like, it doesn't even feel like India.

[433] Yeah.

[434] Carol is on the southwest coast.

[435] It's beautiful.

[436] Uh -huh.

[437] It's just this really...

[438] Yeah.

[439] Well, ironically, her parents, when they visit Santa Barbara they said to her oh my god we feel like we're home i'm like what that's that when i think of when i think of india they do think of like water and beach and yeah yeah and then probably like you know people who are healthy yeah like we think of health as like being this necessary evil thing we have to like think about her health and over there it's just part of how they live yeah you know it's just which may not be that different santa barbara i don't know right yeah yeah and like you know you like you eat and you think like i'm really going to think about what i'm eating right but like is that food functional for me is it going to provide something that I need later in the day and you know like you may think about it with regard to a workout like I'm going to be working out later so I should have some more protein now but that's just the way of life in carola yeah food had function right like a diet is created for a society typically on because of palate right it tastes good and it's got good mouth feel but for for carola and the in the irovedic diet the diet was created because we're looking at food and we're saying okay this food has this function.

[440] This food has this function.

[441] And here's what you should eat.

[442] And here's the time of day you should eat it.

[443] And then we'll do the palate stuff after.

[444] I mean, the food's delicious.

[445] But what drove it was not palate as much as function.

[446] Yeah.

[447] Which is just how I think people should eat, how human should eat.

[448] Yeah.

[449] Yeah.

[450] No one would fill their car up with cough syrup.

[451] You know, you understand that this thing has, it requires fuel, a certain type of fuel to perform the function that was designed.

[452] You know, but you don't really approach your body that way.

[453] And probably should.

[454] And also, So it's stacked against us.

[455] They make it so easy for us to just satisfy that palate and the texture.

[456] I know.

[457] Eat pasta all day.

[458] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[459] We've all been there.

[460] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[461] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[462] but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[463] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[464] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[465] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[466] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[467] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[468] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[469] What's up, guys?

[470] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[471] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[472] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[473] And I don't mean just friends.

[474] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes.

[475] on.

[476] So follow, watch and listen to Baby.

[477] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[478] I got young kids.

[479] Yeah, we have all daughters.

[480] Yeah, all daughters.

[481] Yeah.

[482] Sweet.

[483] I mean, it's the best thing in the world.

[484] And I don't know how it's with Kristen, but, you know, I kind of get to be the hero, you know, especially when I'm gone.

[485] I come home and I'm the hero.

[486] And I feel bad because, you know, they've been at it with mom for a couple days when I'm gone.

[487] I swoop in.

[488] I don't need to, like, cut her legs out from her.

[489] Fresh patience.

[490] She just gives me this look like, really?

[491] You're going to come in and be fun, dad, all of a sudden, you know?

[492] They've been arguing for three days, right?

[493] But it's just the way it goes.

[494] I know that relationship changes, you know, you know, there's ups and downs with, you know, moms and dads with the, but right now, it's awesome.

[495] What ages are they?

[496] 13, 12, and 10.

[497] Oh, wow, that's supposed to get, that's supposed to be, like, really on the precipice for you of craziness.

[498] I'm holding my breath.

[499] Right now it's good.

[500] Oh, good.

[501] Yeah, I have one friend who's an older friend of mine who has daughters that I witness go all the way through high school, stayed best friends and kind to each other.

[502] I'm like, it can happen.

[503] It can happen.

[504] I just know that all I needed to know is that is possible.

[505] I have a brother.

[506] I had no sisters, so I never knew little girls, you know, just wasn't something that I knew.

[507] What has shocked me sometimes, and I don't know if this, your kids are still.

[508] Four and six.

[509] Four and six.

[510] Yeah.

[511] So they're still young, but I'm amazed sometimes the way my girls and my wife talk to each other.

[512] Like, I mean, it's just, you're the meanest mom ever.

[513] I hate you.

[514] I'm like, whoa, whoa.

[515] And I will take them aside sometimes.

[516] And I will say, hey, look, first of all, we're not friends.

[517] You know, just we're your parents.

[518] Just let's be clear on this.

[519] There's no equivalency in this relationship.

[520] Number two is that that woman over there will be your best friend one day.

[521] So please don't say anything that you're going to like.

[522] kick yourself 10 years from now and say, I wish I hadn't said that.

[523] You know, just don't, don't say anything you're going to regret, I guess.

[524] But it's amazing.

[525] Well, there seems to be a predictable pattern.

[526] There's moms and daughters.

[527] And then dads and sons, for me, that was a very dicey.

[528] You know, there's a lot of like alpha jockey.

[529] Right.

[530] You know, really?

[531] Are you the man?

[532] I'm a little bigger than you now.

[533] Is that still, we're still going with this?

[534] Yeah, but I'm still growing.

[535] I think it's easy to make that.

[536] person, the same gender person, feel like you are going to be that?

[537] Yes.

[538] So then whatever they do that makes you feel crazy or annoys you, it triggers you to feel like, now I'm going to be that or I might be that and I don't like it.

[539] So then it's really heightened.

[540] That's interesting.

[541] Yeah, I do.

[542] I think that's a good point.

[543] I agree.

[544] See yourself a bit.

[545] Exactly.

[546] And in like maybe a scary way.

[547] And you're almost defining yourself against mom or or dad going, I don't want that life.

[548] You know, so now you're kind of attacking.

[549] it or being critical of it.

[550] Maybe this gets back to the whole wanting to be different, right?

[551] I mean, I don't know.

[552] Like, I love my parents, but the idea that I will become my parents, that doesn't, that shouldn't happen.

[553] I should be my own, my own man, my own person, you know, so.

[554] I think you have a very interesting life.

[555] And I feel like you have, so just in a nutshell, you graduate from Novi High, you go to U of M, you then get your degree in neurosurgery from U of M. Yeah.

[556] Then I find this very, so then you're pretty immersed, I imagine, in the world of academia and then the world of medicine.

[557] Yeah.

[558] And then in 2003, you go to Iraq with the invasion of Iraq and become a doctor there.

[559] How did that come about?

[560] I had been practicing medicine.

[561] I was writing a lot on health care and I'd become a journalist, you know, mainly going to talk about health care policy.

[562] That was my interest.

[563] I worked at the White House writing about those issues.

[564] Before 2003.

[565] Before 2003.

[566] Yeah.

[567] Back in night, I worked for the Clinton administration.

[568] In late 90s, I worked to the White House.

[569] Oh, wow.

[570] And it was all health care.

[571] Health care was a big, big issue for the, for the Clintons at that time.

[572] And when I was going to, when I started working as a journalist, I was thinking it was going to be health care policy.

[573] That was my interest.

[574] And then 9 -11 happens and the invasion into Iraq and Afghanistan.

[575] And I was always interested in how people get cared for in war zone settings but all of a sudden i was there as an embedded reporter or you know and and as it turns out the only neurosurgeon also within the area that that i was reporting so people get injured they got shot and uh they would say to me hey man you know we know you're here as reporter but would you take off your journalist cap and put on your your surgeon's cap and help us out and yeah of course you know of course you do that's that's what you do and so that's how it Now, I have been in an operating room in Afghanistan when soldiers were just brought back from being shot.

[576] Yeah.

[577] And it is not like a hospital at Cedar Sinai.

[578] It's plywood walls.

[579] The kind of calmness that existed with those guys, I was just real, because for me, of course, it was just chaos.

[580] Right, right.

[581] And dudes are screaming and there's blood everywhere and the x -rays are coming real quick and, oh, we have metal here.

[582] But just to see the chill mode of the surgeons, I was like, they're fucking gangster.

[583] Like, look how calm, methodical.

[584] It was really cool.

[585] I really, I mean, it wasn't cool to see people hurt.

[586] It was cool to see how proficient.

[587] They could take care of people in that setting.

[588] Yes.

[589] No, it was amazing.

[590] I mean, like you have tremendous respect for those guys.

[591] I mean, I watched the golf war on TV, and I remember seeing the lights and the green screen.

[592] I was like, I don't even know what I'm looking at.

[593] Is that a missile going up?

[594] Is that a bomb falling?

[595] I don't know.

[596] But you knew people were getting hurt.

[597] and you knew that there were people rushing in to help them and the people that were helping into rush them were total strangers and they were risking their lives and I thought God it's the most human story I mean I operate every week at a hospital Atlanta I'm not risking my life to take care of somebody right those guys are doing that and so when I covered the conflict in 2003 and saw that and it was real that I thought I will spend my entire career covering those those stories you know I have tremendous respect for what the nurses and doctors do in those situations.

[598] Was there something liberating about it getting, and this is not to say that the care there in that situation isn't on par, but it is a different environment altogether.

[599] To me, it look way more like survival, down to the basics, just the hardcore getting in there.

[600] There's not all these administrators, there wasn't all, you're not filling out computer work.

[601] You know what I'm saying?

[602] Yeah.

[603] There was something more primitive about the healing.

[604] You just got to do your job.

[605] Yeah, and I wondered if that was at all neat or a alien about it.

[606] It was very, very neat.

[607] I mean, you know, there's certainly, you know, this feeling that you're going to take care of somebody, that if you don't take care of them, they're going to die.

[608] If you do take care of them, they could be just fine.

[609] So there's that, it's that real sort of tension.

[610] It's more game day plays, right?

[611] Yeah.

[612] It's like, it's not planned out.

[613] You didn't have six consultations.

[614] It's like, it's now you do the right thing right now or not.

[615] That's right.

[616] They need you right now.

[617] You don't have to fill out paperwork.

[618] and talk to the administrator, get approvals, you know, try this medication for a while.

[619] Yeah.

[620] This medication for a while.

[621] It just do your thing.

[622] It was very gratifying.

[623] And the other thing was, I think it showed, it reminded people a little bit of how much you could do with how little, you know?

[624] I mean, we have so many resources and it's wonderful.

[625] Cedar, Sina, you see, all these hospitals, it's great.

[626] But it does make you realize that we probably use a lot more than we really need.

[627] Yes.

[628] You can get things done with a lot less.

[629] And frankly, in most parts of the world, that's what they do.

[630] And again, and this gets back to American made or not, you know.

[631] Yeah.

[632] And is that why, I imagine there's many facets to it, but is that why our health care costs per person are so outrageous?

[633] Is it the endless layers on top of the procedure itself?

[634] I think if you had to boil it down to one thing because people say, well, we have too many specialists.

[635] We do too many of these operations, whatever.

[636] It's cost.

[637] It's price.

[638] We charge a lot more money for these same exact things.

[639] your hospitalization, the doctor's fees, pharmaceutical costs.

[640] I mean, they're ridiculous.

[641] You've seen the headlines.

[642] People jacking up costs in these drugs suddenly thousands of percent.

[643] And these aren't drugs that are brand new drugs that have gone through all this innovation.

[644] Some of these have been existing drugs that have been around for years.

[645] And some pharma company suddenly says, I know a lot of people are dependent on that drug to make their lives better.

[646] Yeah.

[647] But I'm still going to go ahead and raise the cost by 1 ,000 percent.

[648] Yeah.

[649] And that shouldn't be allowed.

[650] It's the price of these things more than anything.

[651] And is the price artificially high, or is the price it is?

[652] It is.

[653] I was going to say, is it to cover all the uninsured folks that are coming through the system?

[654] No, I mean, because this is the private side of the system.

[655] You know, the uninsured folks that are coming through the system oftentimes are paid for if they're getting care by the public side of the system, through Medicaid or Medicare, whatever it might be.

[656] Right.

[657] You couldn't identify who the buyers and sellers are of products.

[658] Like if you were running the system, you'd say, well, you're charging me too much for that.

[659] that here's how much I can get for it over here give me a better price yes problem is in health care we don't know who the buyer is exactly we don't know who the seller is I was doing an operation on Monday and I asked because I knew I'd be talking about this a little bit I was doing a spine fusion I said how much does this spine fusion hardware cost a very simple question yeah and I got some answer that was a version of well that's complicated it depends I go no no that thing right there that how much is that cost I guess it five $5, $500, whatever.

[660] Well, it depends on which hospital it is, which surgeon it is, which department is doing the operation.

[661] It is so opaque.

[662] And then who's the buyer there?

[663] Is the patient the buyer?

[664] Am I the buyer?

[665] Is the hospital the buyer?

[666] Yeah, I should be able to go online and order my device, myself, and roll up with it and a sealed bag and go, hey, I bought the thing.

[667] Ultimately, I think the consumers or the patients in this case will probably be people who drive that change in ways that, like you just described.

[668] If you're suddenly the one who's, you know, like I actually seeing a bill here, you may go out and negotiate that price and you're going to be able to do that better than a hospital system could, better than a doctor could.

[669] Because we're not, you know, Medicare can't even negotiate drug prices.

[670] They just pay whatever the pharmaceutical company tells them to pay.

[671] Yeah, that aspect or even like the way, you know, the numerous times they've been taken to the cleaners in Florida with the pain mills and all the stuff.

[672] the way medicine.

[673] And again, in theory, the policy is great because my understanding of why they do that is that they've made a decision we're never going to be standing in the way of someone getting the medicine they need.

[674] Right.

[675] So in theory has kind of an altruistic policy underpinning that just very easily exploited.

[676] Right.

[677] There can be good things, certainly, that come out of these sorts of decisions.

[678] But the problem is that the ramifications overall for our health care system is that there are a lot of people who don't get what they need as a result.

[679] If the decision was made to say, hey, look, we don't want to get in the way of people getting their medications, great.

[680] I appreciate that it was not malignant motives that started this.

[681] The problem is that you've got tens of millions of people in this country who don't have reliable access to health care.

[682] And look, if you and my wife didn't have reliable access to health care with this autoimmune thing, somebody's drugs with $30 ,000 a year.

[683] I mean, it was ridiculous.

[684] I mean, there's no way we could have possibly afforded that.

[685] And that is the reality for tens of millions of people.

[686] So, you know, we have a health care system where 100 years from now people are going to go so let me get this straight.

[687] You guys were so good at innovating and creating these new drugs and these new treatments and procedures and you can scan things from the moon and whatever.

[688] And then the people who really needed it couldn't have access to it.

[689] Yeah.

[690] And somebody thought that made sense.

[691] That was a good idea.

[692] These same geniuses, yeah, that could create that stuff.

[693] Right.

[694] They're so good at innovating.

[695] But the idea of actually making it valuable to people, having relevance in their lives.

[696] Well, I want to ask now a very, very provocative question.

[697] And I've now firsthand witnessed, I've done this twice with my dad and then my stepdad.

[698] As part of this issue that we have a hard time accepting that people are going to die, to me it seems like we spend a really disproportionate amount of money, resources, and time on people in their last year of their life.

[699] like we just throw the kitchen sink at someone with in my dad's case small cell carcinoma well he was going to die in three months really no matter what anyone did and at best maybe we were going to get six months out of but i was just watching the fucking dump truck of of money and options and all this and i thought he's now consuming more medical money than i will probably my whole life until i'm in the same situation could we clean up a big chunk of this by just getting more realistic about hey people die can you even and vocalize on them?

[700] Yeah, no, I mean, we spend most of our healthcare dollars in the last couple of years of life.

[701] That's very true.

[702] You know, that's, that's, uh, I think what is, what is interesting is that it's such an emotional decision, right?

[703] I mean, this is gonna, this, this example I'm giving, I don't mean it to minimize in any way, but I have, I love animals.

[704] I have dog and my dog, 14 years old, uh, got lung cancer.

[705] Uh -huh.

[706] And, and we did everything heavy smoke.

[707] yeah i was i did wonder why i got like what is it in the house yeah it's a little scary but the uh but he had lung surgery and people friends of my looking you got a dog got lung surgery sure sure chest tube you know he had a chest tube and we did everything for for a dog and we knew i mean that that that it probably wasn't going to really extend his life but we also felt like we couldn't not do it and i'm just i'm just being totally honest with you this isn't a health care a policy comment this is more just a personal comment sure and and maybe you know i haven't gone through this with my parents but you know part of me i do wonder like you just don't you want to try everything i mean hope is a very powerful sentiment you know when it comes to this and you always feel like there might be something right around the corner that could help them but do the adults have to say guys were spending 45 % of our resources on people that live one more year well this is untenable let me let me tell you something that i think was really interesting you may know this but you know when the Affordable Care Act got passed in 2009, one of the things that was originally in there was a completely paid for visit with people over the age of 65 and end -of -life counselors to sit down and say, okay, here, let's go through things.

[708] If you have this diagnosis, if you find yourself in this situation, it was like a living will plus a lot more.

[709] Yeah.

[710] And it was an opportunity for these patients while they're still healthy and in their right minds to really lay out with their families and their doctors, how they would.

[711] would want to be treated if they really got sick.

[712] And there were studies that found, and they did this in other countries, that had dramatically lowered health care costs, that people were much less likely to seek aggressive care, and when they were told what the likelihood of their outcome was going to be.

[713] You know what those things ended up getting called?

[714] They got called death panels.

[715] Oh, yeah.

[716] That was the death panel, right?

[717] When you're heard, you're going to pull the plug on grandma, that's what Obamacare is going to do.

[718] It's going to pull the plug on grandma because of these visits that were going to be covered to allow people to talk about it.

[719] Start processing.

[720] that situation before they're in the middle of it and coming up with a game plan that that side is the masters at titling things i got to give it up i'm four death panels no one's going to say that right right or even the estate tax changing the term to the death tax and all of a sudden you see poor people going yeah don't take away that billionaire's money and you're all the messaging yeah it's really really stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare um i am i am heartbroken that you and I don't have enough time.

[721] I think I could talk to you for three hours.

[722] So you have a new docu -series.

[723] Yeah.

[724] It's called chasing life, travel all over the world, looking at what I think are interesting health practices.

[725] You know, it's based on this idea that we spend, you know, trillions of dollars on health care in this country.

[726] And our life expectancy has gone down three years in a row.

[727] We're 23rd in the world.

[728] We're expected to continue to drop.

[729] And yet there are places around the world that live happier, healthier, longer lives than we do.

[730] And I kind of want to know what they're doing and what we can learn from them.

[731] So I traveled the world finding those things and immersing myself and them.

[732] That's always a very frustrating thing for me is that we can visually see people that are doing something better than we're doing and then no willingness to adopt that.

[733] Yeah.

[734] Even I look at like in Scandinavia, right, your health records are not public yet they're not closed, right?

[735] So they can do these epidemiological studies in five seconds.

[736] Like we're over here debating whether or not this certain vaccine gives results in autism and they figured out, 20, oh, let's just look.

[737] We can look.

[738] Oh, no, it doesn't.

[739] You guys have been arguing about that for years.

[740] It's, it's pretty amazing.

[741] You know, how they approach healthcare overall, the types of, the types of data like that that they can give the people.

[742] But just, you know, you go to these places that people live a lot better than we do.

[743] Yeah.

[744] And, and it's true.

[745] Even Carola in India, it's amazing when you look at what is possible and what we could reasonably adopt into our own lives here yeah it's not that hard some of it i mean we we love the home run we love the touchdown we love the big play sure but sometimes you ignore the little plays that can have that huge huge impact on your life is there one thing you would say that everyone should be doing daily that would help within these long -term effects i i'll say i'll give you two because there's like a million of them right okay one is i think you just when you think about your diet uh this isn't necessarily about being vegan or not being vegan, but eliminating processed foods and added sugar.

[746] I mean, people say this all the time, but when you look at countries where they have far less heart disease, far less diabetes, far less dementia, the diet is such a big part of it.

[747] The other thing I'll tell you, and this is going to sound a little squishier around the edges, but there's a lot of other countries like ours, right?

[748] They eat the same foods.

[749] They've had the same economic challenges.

[750] They've had the same labor force and immigration issues.

[751] And yet they continue to increase in life, expectancy and we continue to go down and i think it's it's places that have really invested in the social fabric of a place where people found their tribes like you said earlier you know you have your people and i think in the states you know it's become the sort of rugged individualism that has become the mantra and loneliness and social isolation is a really toxic thing and we we haven't really known how to define that yeah but you see places where people live similar lives to us but they have the social cohesion and it really seems to buffer them from the problems.

[752] Well, we're a social priming.

[753] We were designed to live a very specific way.

[754] Yeah.

[755] And we've made it easy to not live that way.

[756] Right.

[757] Right.

[758] When does this air?

[759] This air starts April 13th.

[760] April 13th and it's called chasing life.

[761] Chasing life.

[762] And it's on CNN?

[763] CNN.

[764] Yeah, because you are deep in bed over there and we're happy about that.

[765] Yeah.

[766] It's really fun to hear your opinion and you're very trustworthy and Thank you.

[767] You got to come back.

[768] You got to come back.

[769] Yeah, yeah.

[770] I think we could do two hours.

[771] I feel like we're just settling in.

[772] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[773] But that's the Livonian, yeah.

[774] It's really shining.

[775] It's shining strong.

[776] So, Sanjay, thank you so much for coming in.

[777] And please watch the docu -series.

[778] I'm sure it will be fantastic.

[779] Thanks.

[780] Thank you.

[781] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[782] Man, man, man, man, man. Man, man, man, ma, ma, ma, man, man, man, man, man, man, boy, that can't be done.

[783] Do you think you could do it?

[784] No. Oh.

[785] I don't.

[786] You'll never do it.

[787] Never.

[788] But that was a nice try.

[789] Why did you do that?

[790] I don't know.

[791] I'm nervous.

[792] You're making me so nervous.

[793] What?

[794] About what?

[795] I'm waiting for you to flip.

[796] Why are you far?

[797] You're very mercurial.

[798] You're very mercurial.

[799] I'm waiting for you to slash out at me. Don't say that.

[800] Look at that.

[801] even made you mercurial.

[802] Yes, because you, okay, you push people and test people and trick people and also trap people.

[803] Intrapment.

[804] That's mainly what you do.

[805] Okay.

[806] And then you act like, you're right.

[807] But then now you're here to point out what I'm not right, which is quite frequently.

[808] Yeah.

[809] Oh, before we get into this yummy fact check, I need to apologize to our Mormon listeners.

[810] Yeah, we made a mistake.

[811] was cavalier with my details and I made a mistake.

[812] Yeah.

[813] It was pointed out to me by a lot of people that Mormons do not believe Jesus was born in the USA.

[814] Now, a Mormon did tell me, they believe everything the Bible says in that when Jesus died, when he ascended into heaven, they believe he then appeared to Native Americans and prophesized in North America.

[815] Right.

[816] So I just want to say I was wrong, but I didn't pull it completely out of nowhere.

[817] I got confused.

[818] It was the visit after the resurrection.

[819] You knew there was some North American Con -Omen.

[820] But again, I definitely was wrong.

[821] Also, I hope that I do not wish to offend anyone of any religion.

[822] I think I'm, I try to be balanced in my critique of all religions.

[823] I'm very open about the fact that I don't believe any of those texts, any of the religious texts.

[824] But I certainly didn't mean to single out Mormons.

[825] And I apologize.

[826] Great.

[827] And I apologize for not fact -checking it.

[828] Oh, okay.

[829] Great.

[830] That's really my job and I didn't do it.

[831] So, sorry.

[832] What did we do this weekend?

[833] We watched.

[834] Oh, we're watching the O -A.

[835] We're watching the O -A.

[836] Yeah.

[837] With our friends.

[838] And then, of course, this weekend, Game of Thrones starts.

[839] Yeah.

[840] So life really takes a turn this Sunday.

[841] Yeah.

[842] It's very interesting because I don't remember.

[843] anything that's happened in that show.

[844] No. And in fact, two nights ago, I started rewatching season seven.

[845] And boy, it was like I was watching it for the first time.

[846] I kept thinking like, I'm probably going to get bored because I know what's going to happen.

[847] I don't.

[848] I don't know what's going to happen.

[849] Yeah.

[850] It's so dense.

[851] You just forget it all.

[852] Are you watching with subtitles?

[853] No. If I go back to rewatch, which I would like to do, I'm going to watch with subtitles.

[854] That might help with all the confusing names.

[855] Names.

[856] I think it will help with that.

[857] Yeah, I'll tell you what I was reminded of, which makes me so happy, the hound.

[858] Oh, the hound.

[859] So I got obsessed again with the hound.

[860] I was reminded that the hound's my favorite character.

[861] Right.

[862] And then I was by myself in bed.

[863] I googled what he looks like in real life.

[864] Oh.

[865] He's a handsome guy.

[866] He is?

[867] Yeah.

[868] Yeah, he's good looking and he's a big gentleman.

[869] Right.

[870] That's why you like him.

[871] I do like him.

[872] And he's, yeah, I think he's like he was a painter in Scotland or something.

[873] Oh.

[874] Yeah, you know, with his hand.

[875] and stuff you know what i'm saying like he did sexual stuff no no no no like he's he can build things and stuff you know i like that i like when guys can like build things and handle their business sure sure yeah yeah i could care less about that that's not true i could care 25 % you think it's hot when a guy's like building some shit yeah yeah but i don't i don't yeah you're right i do okay i do it won't be a mass escalating to people who aren't building.

[876] Is that your fear?

[877] Well, yeah, because I don't want it to be like, that's the hot thing.

[878] It's like a guy who can, like, build a shed.

[879] But let's just say this.

[880] So I see what you're saying.

[881] But let's just say you find cyclists hot.

[882] You would no problem say I find cyclist hot without fearing that everyone who doesn't cycle now feels less now.

[883] So it should be the same with building.

[884] Yeah.

[885] That's true.

[886] Do you like cyclists?

[887] Not particularly, no. They're generally in your way here in L .A., right?

[888] Yes.

[889] In fact, I'm pretty annoyed.

[890] by them often.

[891] And mostly just because you're nervous, you're going to hit them, right?

[892] Yeah, and they're going slower than my car, and I don't want to pass them because I'm nervous, but I'd like to get to my destination.

[893] And what sucks is in L .A., they're going slower than your car at times, and they're going faster than your car at times.

[894] So have you ever found yourself in the position where you're like, God, I want to pass them right now because I have a little window.

[895] But then I'm going to get up to this light, and they're going to pass me, and I have to do it all over again.

[896] Yep.

[897] And sometimes they're riding right in the middle of the street.

[898] Yep.

[899] They sure are some of them.

[900] And that's illegal, right?

[901] I have to, I don't know the rules on it.

[902] But when I ride my bicycle on the street, I am hugging the curb.

[903] I'm not trying to get anyone's way.

[904] You know, what is illegal is you can't ride on the sidewalk.

[905] And I, I don't understand that long.

[906] Well, I'm real confused.

[907] And you know I've got a real issue about this.

[908] I can't stop talking about it.

[909] It's these fucking scooters you can rent to all over the city.

[910] You are so old man about this.

[911] I'm so preoccupied.

[912] They're just, they're littering up the whole city.

[913] You can't look at a corner in L .A. that doesn't have like four or five fucking discarded scooters.

[914] I just don't know like, but because it's transportation, it's cool that they're just littering every corner.

[915] I think there's, you got a bunch of bozos out there renting these things that have, A, never even been on a scooter.

[916] B, they don't know if they're supposed to be on the sidewalk or the road.

[917] I see them everywhere.

[918] Sometimes they're in the middle of the road.

[919] Sometimes they're on the sidewalks.

[920] People are jumping out of the way.

[921] I mean, it is pandemonium these scooters.

[922] Yeah, I do think maybe they should require some sort of license or something.

[923] Something, because it's total chaos with these guys.

[924] They're jumping curbs.

[925] Half the people I see, I can tell they are not comfortable on them.

[926] They're like out of control.

[927] They go like 25.

[928] Yeah, they go too fast.

[929] Yes, it's too fast for someone who's not adept at a scooter.

[930] Yeah.

[931] In L .A. traffic up and down the sidewalks.

[932] But I like what it represents.

[933] It's like anyone can get anywhere.

[934] That part's cool.

[935] It's democratizing, I guess.

[936] Conceivably, it's cutting down on traffic.

[937] I think that probably was.

[938] the original point to it.

[939] I'm sure that was the sales pitch where the city said, sure, you can litter these fuckers all over.

[940] Just leave them in the middle.

[941] I'm waiting for some asshole to get off at a stoplight in the middle of the road.

[942] Just leave it in the center of the street.

[943] I guarantee you'll see it.

[944] No. It's so funny that you care about that.

[945] Isn't it?

[946] Like why do you care about that?

[947] There's also other things littered all over the street that you don't care about.

[948] Like what?

[949] Homeless people.

[950] Oh boy.

[951] Okay.

[952] Well, I do care about them.

[953] And I'm concerned about them.

[954] You're really not championing that cause.

[955] Well, no, I work with PATH.

[956] I've donated money to PATH.

[957] I've done move -ins for PATH, so you can't say I haven't.

[958] You're adjacently.

[959] Yeah, yeah.

[960] I mean, I've done it to make my wife happy.

[961] Yeah, me too.

[962] It doesn't take away the fact that I gave money and stuff to them.

[963] Right.

[964] I'm not taking away that.

[965] Why, you're trying to take away my contribution.

[966] I'm not, but do you think you're an advocate for homelessness?

[967] I don't know how I feel about homelessness, to be totally honest.

[968] Exactly.

[969] Well, Ethan at work last week brought up.

[970] guess apparently some some thought experiment by jonathan hate who we love height height yeah um that if people want to live on the street is it is it up to us to impose our will on them that they shouldn't be living on the street like if there are any kind of um uh proposals where there will be housing bill and then there'll be mandatory that they leave the street and get into of those houses his thought experiment is like morally is there anything wrong with living outside i guess i'm probably fucking up his whole point but this this is what the conversation ended up being at work okay which ethan was saying look if if someone loves living under the overpass who are you to say that they shouldn't be doing it like what ground are you standing on what's your moral high ground here you'd have to probably say they don't know what's best for themselves so it gets into a big liberty thing and i don't know i wish i knew that the exact numbers, but many of the homeless population here is probably not with a mind that they could make that decision.

[971] Well, I can say this because in an anthro class, I had to do ethology on Skid Row.

[972] So I hung out there for a couple weeks and I interviewed all these people.

[973] And I can just tell you my thing, I mean, 90 % of the people I talked to were either addicts.

[974] That was the vast majority.

[975] They're just addicts.

[976] If you're an addict, I know addicts in housing's not the issue.

[977] Yeah.

[978] And then another significant percentage, of course, with people that had been in hospitals or institutions for mental illness that were now just roaming around the streets.

[979] Yeah, that's a problem, I think.

[980] I don't think those people are choosing, like, if I could pick anywhere in my life to live and I'm doing pros and cons, I'm going to pick under the overpass.

[981] I don't think that's happening.

[982] I can't imagine making that decision, but I can't presume to know if someone might not prefer that.

[983] But you're walking down the street here.

[984] You see the, you see them.

[985] You see.

[986] Oh, I see a ton.

[987] Yeah.

[988] They're all over right by my house.

[989] Yeah, they are.

[990] Most of the ones, because I often will give them food.

[991] Like when we order food for a party, I'll go under that Vodok and drop off like a shitload of sandwiches, you know.

[992] Generally, the person I give it to is pretty high.

[993] And I'm like, hmm, I don't know if they're really.

[994] hungry for a sandwich or they're really hungry no they get hungry oh no they're hot yeah they're not smoking weed you're still hot yeah here's well here's the crazier one you know the feeling i had after watching um wild wild country when the rajneeshis invited all those homeless people from all over the country yeah to live on the compound and they it couldn't be done they started having to drug them because people were getting violent and they was not the right decision but but they decided to drug them.

[995] Eventually, a couple of them choked Ma Nod Sheila, my girlfriend, almost killed her.

[996] And my conclusion after seeing that, I was like, okay, well, the history of why we have so many homeless people, one of the big reasons is there were all these exposés in the 80s about mental institutions and how they were just like worse than solitary confinement in prison.

[997] They were just horrendously run and people were just chained a wall.

[998] I mean, it was so terrible that the answer was just to shut them all down.

[999] think like oh well let's let's make them fix them yeah so they shut them all down then they just dumped all the people onto the streets yeah so then i was thinking okay well it's not better for them to be in some leaky damp fucking isolation in a mental hospital the streets are a better option for that in l .a at least it's warm i'm driving around all day long i'm seeing thousands of them a week i don't see any violence you're not seeing it in the news all the time it's not like a huge violence problem.

[1000] And then I was like, well, even if you built a beautiful compound up in Oregon like the Rajneeshis did, you send them there.

[1001] That won't work.

[1002] And I started thinking, is this the best solution?

[1003] I think the solution is you can make those places better.

[1004] Make those places livable and rehabilitative as opposed to a horrible place.

[1005] That I just don't wonder if you have to be that.

[1006] Well, I guess the big thing is can they leave?

[1007] And if they can't leave, then they're in.

[1008] incarcerated.

[1009] And if they can leave, would they just leave?

[1010] I have a hunch that a big chunk of people would just leave and choose not to live in an institution.

[1011] They'd rather just be walking around downtown LA.

[1012] I don't know if they would rather.

[1013] We don't know if we haven't had the option of having good care.

[1014] Yeah.

[1015] I also think a lot of cities have built the housing.

[1016] And I think there's like, fiscally conservative people are opposed to that.

[1017] Like, why would we give these people all these, all these resources and not people who are like working but they're under the poverty level but they're actually working so great that that's a logical thought but in those cities where they've built lots of housing for them the toll that they take on the emergency room visits on the police department on the arrests when you add up all the expenses of someone incurs living on the streets It's much cheaper for us to actually just have housing for them.

[1018] So in that case, it's still more, or some of these cities at least, it's more fiscally responsible.

[1019] Also, those people are complaining about the problem.

[1020] Those people are complaining.

[1021] Like they don't like seeing homeless people.

[1022] Yeah, they don't like that there's a bunch of homeless people everywhere.

[1023] Sure.

[1024] So if you want a solution to that, that's the solution.

[1025] It's going to cost money.

[1026] If you're fine with your city just having homeless people everywhere, then.

[1027] Well, that's where I'm actually.

[1028] myself, I've been exploring that thought.

[1029] Like, is it time for me to just be fine with this?

[1030] It seems weird, right?

[1031] And it seems defeat us, like I've surrendered.

[1032] I don't think it's a good place to get to, no. That you're okay with seeing people on the brink of death, basically.

[1033] Only if you know they have...

[1034] Well, only if you know they have options.

[1035] That options exist and they're not taking them.

[1036] then it's a pretty guilt -free assessment, I think.

[1037] No, that person wants to live under a bridge.

[1038] Yeah, I just don't think we have that.

[1039] Right.

[1040] Only after we would have all those services, would we know?

[1041] I think so.

[1042] Okay.

[1043] Well, that was a big tangent.

[1044] So he was talking about his mom was a partition child.

[1045] The partition was in August, 1947, British India wanted independence from the British and split into two new states that would rule them.

[1046] themselves.

[1047] The two new countries were Indian Pakistan, East Pakistan, has since become Bangladesh.

[1048] The partition of India forced millions of people to leave their homes to move to the other state.

[1049] This was the largest forced migration of people that had ever happened, which was because of war or famine.

[1050] His mom was all caught up in that.

[1051] Yeah.

[1052] I watched a little bit of his, a little episode of his CNN show where he went home with his mom, who had not been there since she was eight years old.

[1053] Oh, really?

[1054] And she, like, knew the house she lived in it.

[1055] Yeah, it was really wild what she remembered.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] And she said that, which came up on the podcast that she left on a cargo ship just packed in with people.

[1058] Oof.

[1059] Steve Austin, Stone Cold Steve Austin, professional wrestler.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] He acted like, I didn't know who that was, but I acted that way?

[1062] No, he did.

[1063] Oh, he did.

[1064] He just said you're too young.

[1065] Oh, but you know.

[1066] Stone Cold.

[1067] Yeah, I think that's just like a name in the zeitgeist people know.

[1068] You think he's reached the Hulk Hogan status?

[1069] I think.

[1070] You know Hawke Hogan, Andre the Giant.

[1071] Yeah.

[1072] Stone Cold.

[1073] Yeah.

[1074] Dwayne the Rock Johnson.

[1075] Sure.

[1076] There's one other one.

[1077] Goldberg?

[1078] I feel like I know that one even though I didn't watch.

[1079] Goldberg.

[1080] I don't know.

[1081] That's a guy.

[1082] He's a big one, right?

[1083] Yeah, WCW guy.

[1084] But he's not, no, he's not a name that everyone knows.

[1085] Well, you also know there's a lot of Stone Cold Steve Austin jokes on Good place.

[1086] Oh, that's true.

[1087] Yeah, so you're hearing that there.

[1088] But that's why they can make that joke because it's so ubiquitous that they can do that.

[1089] If someone did Goldberg, that would not hit.

[1090] And you know Stone Cold Steve Austin's thing is he'd come into the ring and he'd have two beers, he'd fucking pop them open and slam 24 ounces of beer right in front of everyone.

[1091] Yeah.

[1092] And then get to wrestling.

[1093] That's a cool move.

[1094] Yeah.

[1095] Yeah, I wish, you know, I just don't like wrestling.

[1096] You don't like wrestling?

[1097] Oh, you don't like wrestling.

[1098] I just don't.

[1099] That John Oliver piece was really funny, though, where he's like, it's just good, okay?

[1100] It's just good entertainment.

[1101] He kept showing clips of all the things that were happening.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] It was critical of Ed McMahon.

[1104] That's not his name.

[1105] Vince McMahon.

[1106] Ed McMahon was Johnny Carson's side, side, well, that too.

[1107] Publishers clearinghouse.

[1108] I think that's what he's most known for.

[1109] If you're your age.

[1110] But he was the sidekick on the Tonight Show for.

[1111] 15 years.

[1112] Well, his legacy is that he brings checks to people's houses.

[1113] He was on an episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous when I was younger.

[1114] And he had built his daughter a complete replica of their mansion, but miniature size in the backyard.

[1115] Like a doll house?

[1116] That she could walk around in and stuff.

[1117] What?

[1118] Yeah, it was probably like a thousand square foot miniature version of their big house.

[1119] It was on lifestyles of the rich and famous.

[1120] Makes no sense.

[1121] Why would Would you build a small house of, it's not like she doesn't live there.

[1122] She lives in the big house.

[1123] It should be a different house.

[1124] Maybe he wanted to give her the experience in pride of owning the house and being almost to the ceiling in the house.

[1125] Maybe being a giant.

[1126] I do wonder when the people, because certainly that they don't live in that house now, someone bought a house and there was a miniature version of the house in the back air.

[1127] Do you keep that?

[1128] I'd be creeped out.

[1129] I probably would keep it though because someone put a lot of effort in that.

[1130] That's right.

[1131] Maybe turned into some kind of an animal shelter.

[1132] But I'd be scared that a girl ghost would be living in there.

[1133] Okay.

[1134] And a little white dress.

[1135] Yeah.

[1136] Scary.

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] Was that like cribs before cribs?

[1139] Yes.

[1140] Robin Leach was the host of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

[1141] And I loved that show.

[1142] Oh, my God.

[1143] Did I love it?

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] Seeing all those lifestyles of those rich and famous.

[1146] I know.

[1147] There's something so titillating about that.

[1148] I know.

[1149] It's just, you're just dreaming like, oh, my gosh, if I had a mansion and a miniature version of the mansion in the backyard for my child.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] Okay.

[1152] So you said something about the Aztecs and I couldn't find anything.

[1153] About brain surgery?

[1154] Yeah, but you said like the hitting on the heads and then it was cured.

[1155] Well, it's not that it was.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] So they've found all these skeletons that date back 15 ,000.

[1158] years and they have found skulls that have clear incisions in them, which would be one thing.

[1159] That could be an axe wound or whatever.

[1160] But then they see that the bone healed itself.

[1161] So the person survived that brain procedure, that skull procedure, that the bone grew back over where the incision was, which proves that they were doing it and the patients were living.

[1162] I see.

[1163] They were successful at these brain procedures.

[1164] Got it.

[1165] Yeah, I couldn't find anything about the Aztex.

[1166] and medicine.

[1167] I found a little bit, but it wasn't what you were talking about.

[1168] I could be wrong.

[1169] It was a, it was a, an Amer, we would have said Amor Indian.

[1170] I don't know if we still do.

[1171] Oh, Native American.

[1172] But South America, Machu Picchu, the Mocha, all these groups.

[1173] I think it's more the Machu Picchu folks, whoever inhabited that.

[1174] Okay.

[1175] Neanderthal.

[1176] I say Neanderthal.

[1177] Yes, you do.

[1178] Neanderthal.

[1179] Brains.

[1180] I can't do it.

[1181] I won't do it.

[1182] It's fine.

[1183] I don't want you to.

[1184] I know.

[1185] I'm that way about a lot of words.

[1186] I just won't do it.

[1187] Yeah, don't do it.

[1188] Okay.

[1189] Neanderthal brains, you said, were 1650 cc's in size.

[1190] And the modern Homo sapien, sapien brain is 1 ,500.

[1191] Yeah.

[1192] From what I could find, Neanderthal is known for their large cranial capacity, which at 1 ,600, the average cranial.

[1193] capacity of Homo sapiens is roughly 1 ,300 cubic centimeters.

[1194] Oh.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] So an even bigger.

[1197] Gap.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] That's changed because when I learned it, it was 15, but that's fine.

[1200] Yeah.

[1201] Yeah.

[1202] But it's a big gap.

[1203] Yeah.

[1204] It is a big gap.

[1205] The question is, is the brain or the right parts bigger?

[1206] Right.

[1207] That's what he was sort of saying is it doesn't, size isn't really what matters.

[1208] I have a very provocative theory that's not good.

[1209] The majority of Neanderthals lived in.

[1210] Gaul and Germany, you know, Eastern France and Germany.

[1211] Okay.

[1212] And is now known that they didn't go extinct.

[1213] They interbred with Homo sapiens.

[1214] So they were absorbed into Homo sapiens, sapiens.

[1215] Germans, they're great at engineering.

[1216] They really are smart.

[1217] You look at Einstein and a lot of our chemists and engineers.

[1218] They got a real, they got something going on over there.

[1219] And I think that 1600 brain CC is.

[1220] has been absorbed in that population.

[1221] That's why they're so good at math and engineering.

[1222] Yeah, I don't think.

[1223] When you go to Germany, like, those guys are a little stouter and their forearms are bigger, which are all signature signs of Neanderthal body type.

[1224] Okay.

[1225] So I think that the Neanderthal is really alive and well in Germans.

[1226] Okay.

[1227] He said that size does not, is not an indicator.

[1228] It's not the only indicator, right.

[1229] Right.

[1230] But if their brain was the exact same design as ours, but just bigger, it would, they would be smarter.

[1231] If like the neocortex was the same proportionally.

[1232] If their cities were denser, then yes.

[1233] But there could be, there's plenty of gray matter and all of that.

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] I'm just saying if the brains are all being equal and one's bigger, then they're going to be smarter.

[1236] And there are tons of people in Asia who are amazing at math.

[1237] I would say the majority of the good math, people are in Asia.

[1238] They're good at practicing math.

[1239] They're not great at inventing new theorems and driving.

[1240] the discipline forward.

[1241] That's not the same thing then as being, your creative portions are not necessarily the same thing as your math portions.

[1242] If you're creating within math, yes, then that part of your brain is not only understanding all the current math, but able to comprehend a math that no one else is even comprehended yet.

[1243] Yeah, that's true.

[1244] Yeah, I just don't think, I don't think that's true.

[1245] Like, I guess my point would be you could get a computer to do math better than any human, but you can't get a computer to invent a new math or the theory of relativity or...

[1246] I mean, some people would say otherwise in regards to AI that eventually that AI will be able to...

[1247] In the future, it might be able to.

[1248] I'm just saying currently it can't.

[1249] Right.

[1250] Currently, yeah.

[1251] Okay.

[1252] Balsam of Peru.

[1253] Ooh.

[1254] Yeah.

[1255] Also known and marketed by many other names is grown.

[1256] in Central America, primarily in El Salvador and South America, used in food and drink for flavoring, in perfumes and toiletries for fragrance, and in medicine and pharmaceutical items for healing properties.

[1257] It has a sweet scent.

[1258] In some instances, it's listed on the ingredient label of a product by one of its various names, but it may not be required to be listed by its name by mandatory labeling conventions.

[1259] It can cause allergic reactions with numerous large surveys identifying it as being in the top five allergens most commonly causing patch test reactions may cause inflammation redness swelling soreness itching and blisters including allergic contact dermatitis inflammation and soreness of the mouth or tongue yeah lots of gross that's a yucky stuff and he was saying this was the thing that was triggering his wife's sarietic arthritis right yeah i'm so glad that he um was up for that theory because i think I really think that's what's going on with everyone.

[1260] So we talk a little bit about Ayurvedic medicine.

[1261] And you say like, you don't really, you don't know if they know the science behind it.

[1262] Right.

[1263] But I feel like they do.

[1264] Like, I think in the same way that the way that we're measuring things out based on chemical pills, basically.

[1265] I think they're doing that with herbs.

[1266] Like they know, oh, this causes when I see this.

[1267] Yeah.

[1268] I think they're essentially doing the same thing.

[1269] I agree with you.

[1270] The result is the exact same.

[1271] But their explanation of why this ingredient may trigger inflammation might actually be a metaphysical reason or a spiritual reason.

[1272] Yeah.

[1273] As opposed to the chemistry, they'll never say, oh, well, this binds to this receptor and this hemoglobin then does this.

[1274] Yeah.

[1275] It doesn't matter because the results, the same thing.

[1276] same, but they might give it more of a metaphysical reasoning for why it's doing that thing.

[1277] So that's kind of my point is that they might think, like there's all these, it's a, it's a Brett Weinstein thing that you can have a truth that is founded in an error, but by doing it, you can have a result that's positive.

[1278] Remember he was talking about that?

[1279] Yeah, but I guess that's what, that's what I want to maybe not say.

[1280] We don't know that what they're basing it on is an error.

[1281] It could be in total...

[1282] We don't.

[1283] It's just not done in a laboratory.

[1284] They're not breaking down chemicals and explaining to you why it's happening on a biochemical way.

[1285] They're not, but they are in some ways, like more turmeric is anti -inflammatory.

[1286] It is like these herbs and these things do this to your body.

[1287] Yes.

[1288] So in that way, to me, it's like the same.

[1289] And theirs is just over so long of obfarmatory.

[1290] observation to figure out those things.

[1291] Yeah, their approach is all trial and error.

[1292] Yeah.

[1293] That's why I paralleled it with Marconi, which is like he did create long wave, a wireless radio.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] But he didn't understand what was going on with the physics.

[1296] Like when he was designing towers, he could have, had he understood the physics, he could have started by designing a tower correctly, but instead he had to do 10 towers to stumble upon the right.

[1297] Right.

[1298] Yeah.

[1299] My dad said that once, when he was younger, late teens or early 20s or something, he had some weird, like, face thing on his face.

[1300] Like a fungus?

[1301] Like, maybe, yeah.

[1302] And then he went to, so he went to the real doctor and then nothing, like a dermatologist, nothing was happening.

[1303] And then a friend recommended that he go to this Ayurvedic doctor.

[1304] So he went and the guy who, like the owner of this.

[1305] place wasn't there but his son was there and so his son like gave him medicine it was a pill it was in like a capsule oh wasn't a sab it wasn't a topical no it was a real pill a digestive pill yeah you know he went in the back and mixed something up and then made it into a pill and then gave it to my dad and then it didn't work so it was like oh this is bullshit this is bunk yes but then he so he He was like still having these face issues.

[1306] So then he went back and then the original, the real guy was there, the dad.

[1307] The OD, the original dad.

[1308] The original doctor was there and he, he saw it.

[1309] He looked at him for like one second, then went in the back and did his thing.

[1310] Okay.

[1311] And then my dad took it and like the next day.

[1312] The next day it cleared up.

[1313] Clearing up.

[1314] So, but he took this pill and by gosh, it just did.

[1315] disappeared.

[1316] Now, did he ever have to go back for more of those pills?

[1317] Or does he keep a little long?

[1318] Gone forever.

[1319] Gone for one -time treatment forever.

[1320] He might have had to take it for like a week or something, but he never had that issue ever again.

[1321] I want to go see that person about my arthritis.

[1322] I know.

[1323] I thought that when he told me that story, I was like, I would like for all my friends who have these chronic ailments.

[1324] Yeah.

[1325] To see this.

[1326] He's probably not a lot.

[1327] Although maybe he is a lie.

[1328] He's probably going to live to 200.

[1329] If he can just go back and whip the shit up.

[1330] I know.

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] Yeah.

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] Anywho, so I believe in it.

[1335] Hey, I was the first to say it worked for me, you know?

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] And did I sound derogatory towards them?

[1339] Just by saying I don't know if they understand exactly what's going on.

[1340] No, I just, I just don't know if that's true.

[1341] And I want to be clear about that.

[1342] Like, I think they do know because I think in the same way that he looked at my dad and was like, oh, I know what this is and I know the things that will add together.

[1343] Like, it's.

[1344] It's still chemistry, I think.

[1345] It's just using different ingredients.

[1346] Mm -hmm.

[1347] I think.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] I don't really.

[1350] I don't know enough about it either.

[1351] Right.

[1352] But I do believe in it.

[1353] Do you like acupuncture?

[1354] No. But I know a lot of people that get a lot out of it.

[1355] Mm -hmm.

[1356] I tried it a couple different times and I didn't find it to really do anything for me. Yeah.

[1357] I've gotten in.

[1358] I liked it.

[1359] You did?

[1360] Yeah.

[1361] And did you feel like burning or anything fun at the sites?

[1362] Oh, no. Oh, that's what I would want to feel like.

[1363] If you put a needle in my back.

[1364] Uh -huh.

[1365] And I felt an intense heat coming from the needle.

[1366] I'd be like, ooh, something's actually happening.

[1367] Oh, no, I didn't feel that at all.

[1368] Okay.

[1369] I have a really funny story about one of the times I did it.

[1370] Okay.

[1371] So my friend's wife is a doctor, an ER doctor, but she also does acupuncture and believes in it.

[1372] Oh.

[1373] And I was having back problems, right?

[1374] And at the time, they had three little kids.

[1375] And she said, okay, well, go into the living room and lay on the couch and pull your pants down.

[1376] And I was already like, okay, well, all right.

[1377] Right.

[1378] She's a doctor.

[1379] So I'm laying on the couch and I have like my shirt pulled up.

[1380] And then I have my pants like halfway down.

[1381] My butt cheeks are showing.

[1382] Right.

[1383] And in the middle of it, one of the daughters came in and my buddy's wife was like, well, this is great.

[1384] She's interested in this.

[1385] I'd like to show her how all this works.

[1386] So the little girl is like kind of helping mom out.

[1387] Mom's putting needles in me. And then the little girl starts gently just touching my butt cheek saying, it's okay.

[1388] it's okay and my buddy walked in and basically his whole family is just at my butt cheeks and his daughter is petting four, she's probably like Delta's age saying it's okay and my friend walks in and he goes oh my wrong look at what is happening in here and then just turned around and walked out and I was like I don't want to be in this position either whoa that's really funny oh wow yeah okay how much money is spent on end -of -life care.

[1389] Turns out there's some controversy on this.

[1390] According to health affairs .org, although end -of -life medical spending is often viewed as a major component of aggregate medical expenditure, accurate measures of this type of medical spending are scarce.

[1391] We use detailed health care data for the period 2009 to 11 from Denmark, England, France, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, Taiwan, the United States, and the Canadian province of Quebec to measure the composition and magnitude of medical spending in the three years before death.

[1392] In all nine countries, medical spending at the end of life was high relative to spending at other ages, spending during the last 12 months of life made up a modest share of aggregate spending ranging from 8 .5 % in the U .S. to 11 .2 % in Taiwan, but spending in the last three calendar years of life reached 24 .5 % in Taiwan, three years.

[1393] This suggests that high aggregate medical spending is due not to last -ditch efforts to save lives, but to spending on people with chronic conditions, which are associated with shorter life expectancies.

[1394] So, I guess it's...

[1395] I don't, but that's their conclusion.

[1396] I wonder if I agree with that, just based on the numbers they just threw at us.

[1397] Why?

[1398] Do you think I have the ability to disagree with the conclusion.

[1399] I don't know.

[1400] I've witnessed it twice where it's like there's no way.

[1401] My dad gobbled up like of his lifetime expenditure on medical stuff.

[1402] Yeah.

[1403] I feel like the last six months of his life was half of his whole life expenditure.

[1404] And same with my stepdad, maybe even more for him.

[1405] He was never at the doctor.

[1406] And then, you know, just hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[1407] Yeah.

[1408] In the last two years.

[1409] what I'd love to see is a study of the total amount of money spent last year in America on health care, right?

[1410] Let's say it was a trillion dollars.

[1411] And then what percentage of that was spent by people in their last year of life?

[1412] And if it were like 20 % of that trillion dollars was spent, that would, that's what I am suspicious is the case.

[1413] Yeah.

[1414] And I think that's what a lot of people say.

[1415] And I do think the numbers between 20 and 25 people say.

[1416] But it says here, spending during the last 12 months of life made up a modest share of aggregate spending ranging from 8 .5 % in the U .S. to whatever, that's Taiwan.

[1417] But they're saying 8 .5 % of the total amount spent.

[1418] Yeah.

[1419] But then you're going, okay, well, how many people died under care in the U .S. last year?

[1420] I don't know it was 100 ,000.

[1421] There's 300 million people that are getting normal care.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] It's pricey.

[1425] Yeah, it is.

[1426] We throw a lot of money and resources at it.

[1427] We do.

[1428] I mean, I don't know that I think it's bad to do that.

[1429] I just don't think it, again, this is just having gone through it twice.

[1430] I don't know that it has a ton of impact in many cases.

[1431] Yeah.

[1432] You know?

[1433] Yeah.

[1434] There are certainly, even with Barton, there were a couple different medical options offered where it was going to be $60 ,000 a month.

[1435] Oh, my God.

[1436] And at best, the best.

[1437] case it said it added nine weeks of life and then i read this crazy article in new york times about like these kind of decisions you're making where it's like 180 000 for 12 more weeks in the best case scenario and people having to make that decision i know what a decision to make a lot of people end up having to make it and i just i guess for me if i'm in that position i hope that i go guys let's not just blow a bunch of money for 12 more i know the thing is i don't think it's the the person, it's the people around them that want 12 more weeks.

[1438] Yeah, of course.

[1439] Yeah.

[1440] And in that moment, you're like, yeah, I'll pay at everything I got to spend 12 more weeks with you.

[1441] But then a year later, you're like, hmm, I spent every something I had.

[1442] It was those 12 weeks really.

[1443] Yeah, because also my experience, they're bad 12 weeks.

[1444] Yeah, I know.

[1445] I know.

[1446] I mean, he had fucking radiation on his brain like weeks before he died.

[1447] I was like, dad, why are we?

[1448] Right.

[1449] And he wanted to keep going.

[1450] He did.

[1451] They came in and the guy was like, look, you know, you have considered.

[1452] cancer in the brain and I said to the doctor I said is it the only reason I would say yes to this is it more painful for him to die of the brain cancer than it would be the lung cancer or whatever one of these cancers sure and he said no that's not like one's more or less and I was like then I don't see why you'd want to go through radiation and then he went through all that radiation and all it did is just he he slid downhill very fast after the radiation and it was all this money and I don't think it helped anything and he died weeks like that.

[1453] You know, I know.

[1454] So for me, that was like a bad version of that.

[1455] Right.

[1456] And when you're, it all depends like under what lens are you evaluating it.

[1457] So it's in a bubble on its own in a vacuum.

[1458] Yes, you just do it.

[1459] Right.

[1460] But then when you start looking at the fact that maybe there's 300 million Americans and that we have finite amount of money we're going to spend.

[1461] And are we going to spend, you know, a big chunk of that on people that, you know, going from 12 more weeks to 16 more weeks versus shift that money over to a kid who.

[1462] who's going to get a ton of preventative care.

[1463] Yeah.

[1464] Then now it is a real moral quandary.

[1465] I know.

[1466] It's not a moral quandary if you're rich and you want to throw money at that, whatever.

[1467] Yeah, you can do whatever you want with your money.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] But when you look at the fact that most of the health care in the country is subsidized in some fashion or another, is that how we want to spend money or do I want to spend it on younger people who have their whole life ahead of them?

[1470] Well, yeah.

[1471] I mean, it's also weird.

[1472] It's also tricky because in our system, like the young people are paying for the old people to have that.

[1473] So I guess you.

[1474] Yeah, that's how the pool works.

[1475] And is that fair, I guess.

[1476] Estate tax.

[1477] Death tax.

[1478] An inheritance or estate tax is a tax paid by a person who inherits money or property on the estate of a person who has died.

[1479] The term death tax was first coined in the next.

[1480] 1990s to describe a state and inheritance taxes by those who want the taxes repealed.

[1481] Frank Ian Luntz is an American political consultant, pollster and public opinion guru, best known for developing talking points and other messaging for various Republican causes.

[1482] His work has included assistance with messaging for Newt Gingrich's contract with America and public relations support for pro -Israel policies in the Israeli -Palestinian conflict.

[1483] He advocated use of vocabulary crafted to produce a design.

[1484] fired effect, including use of the term death tax instead of a state tax and climate change instead of global warming.

[1485] Interesting, right?

[1486] Very effective, both.

[1487] Yeah.

[1488] Both of those.

[1489] And you know, it's funny for me is I am personally opposed to a state tax because I already paid taxes on this money.

[1490] I made the money.

[1491] I gave half of it to the government.

[1492] This is now my money.

[1493] You took your half.

[1494] And now you're going to take half again, if I want to give it to me. my kids so i hate it right with that said i also recognize where the country goes if we're just passing on multi -generational wealth to people who don't have to do anything and other people are born and they they don't have that so i think the system invariably would become hugely lopsided if we weren't taking back half that yeah yeah so ultimately i think for society in the country it's a good thing even though i personally don't want to my kids to pay it yeah that makes sense That's all.

[1495] That's it?

[1496] Yeah.

[1497] All right.

[1498] Well, I sure hope he comes back.

[1499] Me too.

[1500] We did not get enough time.

[1501] No, he was yummy like you've all.

[1502] Yeah, exactly.

[1503] Yeah.

[1504] Like time just buggyed by with him.

[1505] And he kept dropping these little nuggets like he worked for the Clintons and all these things that we could have just talked to about for so long.

[1506] Went to war.

[1507] Yeah.

[1508] We talked a little bit about that.

[1509] Yeah, but how cool to be there as a journalist and then just start operating on people.

[1510] I know.

[1511] They have a real skill like that.

[1512] Yeah.

[1513] That no matter what you're in town doing, you're on vacation, you're there as a journalist, and the need arises and that you've got to spring into action.

[1514] It's kind of like a superhero.

[1515] I like it.

[1516] I know.

[1517] I always think that on the airplane, like when they have to be like, is there a doctor on here?

[1518] And I'm like, oh, my God.

[1519] And I'm always so happy when there's a doctor and there's always one.

[1520] They're flying everywhere.

[1521] I'm so happy about that.

[1522] And I do feel like that.

[1523] I'm like, thank God there are people out in the world with that skill that can save.

[1524] someone on an airplane.

[1525] Yes.

[1526] Has I never happened to this?

[1527] I have to imagine a lot of them are in a dicey situation though because like if you're an oncologist and they say is there a doctor on a plane, you have to say yes, you're a doctor, but you might not know shit about clearing an airway.

[1528] But they know, they do.

[1529] They all have some basic knowledge.

[1530] Better than us.

[1531] Way better.

[1532] Okay.

[1533] And I think I would be willing.

[1534] What if they've been drinking though?

[1535] Those most certainly have been drinking, you know, they're on that airplane.

[1536] They're not expecting to see any patients and then all of a sudden they have a patient.

[1537] They're probably, again, still better.

[1538] Still better drunk than a regular person.

[1539] The me dead sober.

[1540] Although I do think I could perform a tracheotomy if necessary.

[1541] You hollow out a ballpoint pen, a bick pen, and then you just slam it into the esophagus to get that air in there.

[1542] I'm willing to do it to save your life.

[1543] Well, please ask around if there's a doctor before you start.

[1544] No, I also have the fantasy.

[1545] You know, I also have the fantasy that they're going to go, is there a pilot on board?

[1546] and there's not.

[1547] And then I will volunteer.

[1548] I think of anyone on the plane that's not a pilot that might have the best chance of landing it with instruction from air traffic control.

[1549] I think I'm the guy.

[1550] I have this fantasy all the time.

[1551] I'm like, I'm so good with mechanical devices.

[1552] I could definitely land this plane if coached to do so.

[1553] So confident.

[1554] Well, let me ask you, would you rather you land it or me?

[1555] Definitely you.

[1556] Of course.

[1557] But I don't know who else is on the plane.

[1558] I'd have to hear everybody else's story.

[1559] Oh, we don't have time for that, Monica.

[1560] We'll just go, oh, this guy races, motorcycles and cars.

[1561] He's certainly the next in line to land this airplane.

[1562] I don't know that those things are in the thing.

[1563] I actually probably would.

[1564] No. Somebody who's on a plane all the time.

[1565] They're being on the plane does, no, no, no. They need a feel with throttle, with thrust, with breaking.

[1566] You know, all these kind of things.

[1567] I'm just saying, If I'm on a plane and they need a pilot, I'm the guy.

[1568] If there's no pilot.

[1569] Also, I flew in a helicopter in the passenger seat and he let me fly for a minute when I was on without a paddle.

[1570] And I did a darn good job without any instruction.

[1571] And I was like, I could, if all hell breaks loose, I'm the guy out of Lillard, Seth and I, I'm going to fly this helicopter.

[1572] Yeah, helicopter.

[1573] I think Seth, because he's been, he sits in that cockpit all the time.

[1574] He says he likes doing that.

[1575] Remember he said that when he was on the hand?

[1576] sit in the jumper seat of the airplane.

[1577] Yeah, jump or yeah, yeah.

[1578] I still think, I've driven with him.

[1579] I still think you'd want me to land the helicopter.

[1580] And that's no disrespect to Seth.

[1581] He's an amazing person.

[1582] But it's not the, how do you know, it's not, I'm going to ask Kalen.

[1583] We have, we have a friend who's a pilot and I'm going to ask how similar is to driving a car.

[1584] No, no, I make no claim that it's similar to driving a car.

[1585] I'm just saying I've raced.

[1586] I don't get, I don't get nervous.

[1587] Okay.

[1588] I've been in the shit.

[1589] Off road racing is there's a river where there wasn't one when you, when you, when you, when you, when you, when you're pre -ran.

[1590] Yeah.

[1591] I'm used to.

[1592] like shit's going sideways and I'm staying calm.

[1593] That's the ingredient you need to land the plane with no training.

[1594] Okay.

[1595] My heart rate would be a steely 87 beats a minute while I brought down the 747.

[1596] But there might be a skill that better parallels than driving a car that I would prefer over the calmness.

[1597] Like an actual skill.

[1598] Calmness is number one.

[1599] Well, I'm calm under pressure.

[1600] Are you?

[1601] You think if you're landing a sense?

[1602] 747 and you're listening to air traffic control and they're like there's a there's a knob on your right turn that 80 degrees pull this back you you would be your heart rate would be good yeah then I nominate you you don't think I'm calm under fire I've not seen you under fire I know that you're afraid of people in the street and stuff you tell me you have a lot of fear so I'm my my hunts I also did tricks high flying ass yeah that was a lot of pressure yeah that's true and I stayed calm You were also on beta blockers.

[1603] No, I wasn't.

[1604] I've never done that.

[1605] I'm teasing.

[1606] All right.

[1607] All right.

[1608] I love you.

[1609] I love you.

[1610] You're on the fence today.

[1611] I love you.

[1612] Okay.

[1613] Good night.

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