EXPERTS ON EXPERT: Jennifer Newsom

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome, don't you squint your eyes.

[1] We are in a pagoda.

[2] We've named this a pagoda overlooking Lake Michigan.

[3] And I feel like we're in Hawaii.

[4] I feel like we're in heaven.

[5] And I'm getting a lot of those Hawaiian songs in my head.

[6] Well, we heard some at the beach last night.

[7] We got a little bit of that.

[8] Well, it wasn't exactly that.

[9] Well, it's very similar.

[10] Matthew's band.

[11] We were actually listening.

[12] No, there was some Matthews, absolutely.

[13] There was some whale in.

[14] But there were a few Hawaiian songs.

[15] Yeah, one of them sounded like, hop on a honey.

[16] Today we have Jennifer Newsome, and the reason that we have her primarily is because we talk incessantly about the documentary, the mask you live in that talks about male gender roles.

[17] Masculinity.

[18] Masculinity, femininity, CNN, nini.

[19] Yeah.

[20] She made that documentary.

[21] That's right.

[22] She made that documentary.

[23] She also has a new documentary called The Great American Lie.

[24] She has just dedicated her life to really trying to make this place a lot better.

[25] She's also, fun fact, married to a California governor, Gavin Newsome, who I find to be one of the most handsome guys out on the political circuit.

[26] Yeah, you were really attracted to him.

[27] I'm very, very attracted to him.

[28] He's got a real Kennedy, you know, vibe.

[29] That's neither here nor there.

[30] Jennifer Newsom is a great hang, and I hope you'll enjoy.

[31] She is today's expert on experts.

[32] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[33] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[34] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[35] So, Jennifer, welcome to The Addict.

[36] I don't think we've talked about a documentary more than the mask you live in.

[37] And we talk about a lot of documentaries, but this one gets brought up a lot.

[38] We loved it.

[39] Thank you guys so much.

[40] The kind of cool impetus for us seeing it was we interviewed Amy Schumer.

[41] Amy Schumer and I got into a sticky situation while we were talking about violence against women.

[42] Right.

[43] Women are afraid of men.

[44] I said, men are afraid of men.

[45] I was molested.

[46] I've been beat up by stepdad.

[47] We're all afraid of that percentage of men who are violent.

[48] And it's way worse for women.

[49] We both left.

[50] I was like, you know what?

[51] I'm kind of doing the All Lives Matter thing.

[52] We're like, she brought up something.

[53] I'm like, we are too, as opposed to just, yes, let's just focus on that.

[54] So I called her to apologize for that.

[55] And she's like, I really belittled what you went through.

[56] And then two days later, she texts me, you must watch this documentary, The Mask You Live in, and we promptly did.

[57] Monica and Kristen and I all watched it together.

[58] Yeah.

[59] And we talk about it nonstop on here, but we're really going to talk about it today.

[60] Awesome.

[61] About midway through, I turned to Mono.

[62] and Kristen, I'm like, what a fucking cliche I am.

[63] It's like once you list the ways to win manhood, masculinity, fighting, yep, having sex with a lot of people, yep, overconsuming alcohol, yes, make money, yes, that was the roadmap.

[64] Right.

[65] And I just worked as hard as I could to get all those things accomplished.

[66] But how could you not?

[67] Because that's how you're socialized.

[68] Yes.

[69] From the earliest of ages.

[70] And we revere men who have athletic.

[71] prowess, sexual conquest, financial dominance, right?

[72] You know, Trump's sort of the embodiment of this hyper -masculine norm that keeps being rewarded and the election sort of is a mirror reflecting back to us, our cultural values.

[73] And I think for the first time people are like, oh, is that what we're telling boys and men to be?

[74] It'd be really convenient and easy to blame him for it.

[75] Oh, no, he's not to blame.

[76] He's an example.

[77] He's an example.

[78] Yeah.

[79] I mean, he's just one of us.

[80] But if we back up to one, I mean, I'm 10 years old and I'm going to the movies.

[81] I'm watching Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[82] This man can barely speak English.

[83] That's not standing in his way.

[84] He doesn't need to communicate because he's just kicking ass and dropping dudes and everything's fine.

[85] And you're like, God, that seems the easy way to do this.

[86] Don't ever have to admit you're scared.

[87] Don't be vulnerable.

[88] Don't talk a bunch.

[89] Just get into action and handle it.

[90] So that's been happening and happening.

[91] Forever.

[92] What did you study at Stanford?

[93] I wish I studied anthropology.

[94] I think I started down that path.

[95] I was a human biology major and then became a human biology minor, but I ended up with a focus on third world development and conservation policy.

[96] Okay.

[97] It was just this circuitous path.

[98] Then I went to Stanford Business School.

[99] But I think all of my studies and experiences have informed my passion and why I am where I am today.

[100] I was always focused on helping women and their families in my work with Conservation International and African Latin America.

[101] And then back at Stanford Business School, the drama department was right next door.

[102] and I sort of was pulled back into humanity and understanding people's motives and that sort of human experience and journey.

[103] And then down in the industry, and I was here for a little while before I met my husband, I noticed that dearth of women both in front of and behind the camera.

[104] And that's my first sort of like, hmm, there's something wrong here.

[105] Which informed the making of misrepresentation, which looks at the end of representation of women in positions of power and influence in the media's misrepresentations of what it means to be a powerful woman.

[106] And that led to the representation project, the social change organization that I founded, which led to the mask you live in.

[107] Right.

[108] And drawing back the curtain on it's not just that our girls and women are staffing, but so to our boys and men and that we have a boy crisis in our country.

[109] Right.

[110] So was it difficult for you having been appropriately so focused on the feminine issues to force yourself to be empathetic and sympathetic to what males go through?

[111] It's a great question.

[112] Because we get stuck in who we're fighting for and often miss the fact that everyone's kind of a victim of some variety if you have enough compassion.

[113] Even people I fucking hate.

[114] I'll see some guy on the street and he's acting like such an asshole.

[115] I'll remind myself like, that dude wants to be loved by as many people as possible.

[116] She's just choosing the worst approach possible.

[117] But his motives, I guarantee, are the same as mine.

[118] He would like it that everyone liked him.

[119] It's so hard to see when I'm witnessing shit I don't like.

[120] Right.

[121] I would say the journey for me was I've always loved men.

[122] I was pregnant with the son at the time that I started researching the mask you live.

[123] And I grew up in a family of five girls.

[124] So I think in one hand I had a certain socialization growing up.

[125] I've always loved men, but also was curious as to why men did things that were harmful to themselves or others and had empathy but really didn't understand the depths of the boy crisis.

[126] Right.

[127] really wanted to unpack that.

[128] And that was really the birth of the masque you live in.

[129] I mean, with misrep, I would be in Abu Dhabi.

[130] I would be in Singapore.

[131] I'd be all over the world.

[132] And people obviously would thank me for making misrepresentation.

[133] But they kept asking about our boys and men and noting that they were suffering.

[134] And how can we help them be a part of the larger cultural equity solution?

[135] Yeah.

[136] People were basically asking you, okay, look at the other side too for us.

[137] Yeah.

[138] You know what's funny, though?

[139] Sorry, I'll just point this out.

[140] Yeah.

[141] Despite being a mother of two sons and two girls, When the mask you live in premiered, people actually didn't want to hear from me as a female filmmaker or the mother of sons.

[142] They really wanted to hear from men.

[143] Oh, interesting.

[144] Which is fascinating, right?

[145] Because normally when a film comes out, you want to talk to the filmmaker.

[146] There was a little of that.

[147] What I loved was I felt like the film was able to uplift all these incredible male masculinity's experts who maybe haven't gotten a lot of play and time and attention because they're minorities in this world of hypermasculinity.

[148] You know, they're trying to say that men don't have to be that way.

[149] Well, what was the coach's name?

[150] I found him to be one.

[151] Joe, Erman, I'm just thinking Joe is a perfect example.

[152] I found him to be the most compelling because I'm always suspicious of people's messages right out of the gates.

[153] It's just my nature.

[154] You're telling me some position you have.

[155] And I'm naturally thinking, why do you have this position and what's your agenda?

[156] What ulterior motive might you have?

[157] There was something about that man. For me, I was like, this isn't a guy who felt left out by all the other boys.

[158] It's not like he has an axe to grind against, you know, toxic masculinity because he was picked on or something.

[159] Like, that's not him.

[160] I'm like, no, this person is going to be very objective about this.

[161] Yeah.

[162] We've looked into getting him actually.

[163] Yeah, he's so wise.

[164] You have to have him on the show because he's just a beautiful human being.

[165] Yeah.

[166] And he speaks with such knowledge and sway so many people.

[167] He and Ashanti branch who did the masculine exercise in the school in East Oakland.

[168] And with the young boys unmasking, they're sort of the protagonist or the stars of the film, which was really beautiful.

[169] But I still thought, gosh, we still don't get women's intuition or power as mothers to share, you know, the observation of raising or socializing boys into men.

[170] I go back to that thing that I just was like, I shouldn't be surprised by because of the way we sort of devalue women and the feminine in our larger culture.

[171] But it was interesting to me that, no, boys and men, they had to hear it from a man. couldn't hear it from a woman, right?

[172] Which is just fascinating.

[173] I can tell you anecdotally, part of that for me is men have been raised by women forever.

[174] Yeah.

[175] Until recently are people co -parenting in any significant way.

[176] You saw a dad maybe for five minutes in the morning, then you saw him when he was pissed off at night, and that was that.

[177] So the mom represents almost the singular source of criticism, rules, everything.

[178] Everything.

[179] They're like, they're tasked with so much.

[180] I'm very sympathetic to my mom, single mother, raised three of us.

[181] It's a fucking hard job.

[182] So hard for single mother.

[183] If you're a man, you're like, oh, wait, now mom's going to tell me what it's like to be me. No, I'm good.

[184] So I can relate to it.

[185] I didn't mind at all because, again, I dig that my mom's a badass, but I see the validity and why some people might have been like, well, let me. It's also just mirror neurons.

[186] Like if it's a man in front of a man And they're like, that's something I relate to.

[187] Yeah.

[188] You don't really get it because you're not me, but he's me. Yeah.

[189] So there's something in that.

[190] Yeah, there's a limit to empathy almost.

[191] Like, yeah, you look like me, you understand me. Yeah.

[192] Or the same.

[193] Which is a little bit the problem we have in our country right now, right?

[194] Yes.

[195] Yeah.

[196] Yeah.

[197] Well, it's so dense.

[198] It's so complicated.

[199] There isn't a black and white anything about it, which is why it interests me so much.

[200] So let's walk through some of things.

[201] Actually, before we do, what did mom do?

[202] My mom was a stewardess.

[203] She was an interior designer.

[204] She started the Children's Discovery Museum in the Bay Area and, like, tech at home at her school.

[205] But my dad did not want her to work outside of the home.

[206] He didn't.

[207] So she raised us five girls.

[208] He was an investment bankers?

[209] Yeah, investment wealth manager and tried to retire a few times.

[210] And my mom sent him right back to work.

[211] Sure, sure, yeah.

[212] Little did anyone know, but she really was the boss.

[213] Uh -huh.

[214] And I lost my older sister.

[215] You did?

[216] At what age?

[217] Stacey was eight.

[218] I was a few days before my seventh birthday accident.

[219] I was part of it.

[220] Oh, no. My husband knows I have a anxiety.

[221] Yeah.

[222] And, of course, my seven -year -old son is wild and braves doing dangerous things.

[223] Because he's just very physical and very confident and very capable, but yeah.

[224] Do you follow Chelsea Handler at all?

[225] I love her.

[226] Her brother died when she was, I guess, 10, and she adored him.

[227] And it's easy to think of what it does to you, but it impacts your parents.

[228] parents so much.

[229] You have kids.

[230] I have kids.

[231] I mean, literally, I can't imagine continuing on if either of my daughters died.

[232] Yeah, I'm right there with you.

[233] But mom and dad stayed married.

[234] It's very rare, very painful for them.

[235] Little Nordic sort of denial, repression, move forward, have more kids, a little of that, a little bit like we don't need therapy.

[236] Right.

[237] Which is why I think I started delving back into sort of the arts and humanity because I was like, well, I need therapy.

[238] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[239] This isn't going away.

[240] I know.

[241] This is not going away.

[242] Do you have survivors guilt in the traditional sense?

[243] I have survivors guilt.

[244] And I think it was just a few years ago where my mom and I were in Montana, where my parents live right now, I think I'd had my third or fourth child.

[245] And I got sort of choked up with it.

[246] And I was like, Mom, I'm so sorry.

[247] Yeah.

[248] And she was like, I'm so sorry.

[249] She took responsibility, but shut down.

[250] And I took responsibility.

[251] And it was like we kind of both took responsibility and didn't know that the other one was in pain and suffering.

[252] Brutal.

[253] Yeah.

[254] Co -dependency was born.

[255] Yeah.

[256] Yeah, you're so right.

[257] If on my watch, my four -year -old lost her older sister, the amount of guilt I would take on about not only did I just experience loss, but now somehow I failed her.

[258] Right.

[259] But she can talk a little bit about it now.

[260] Yeah.

[261] She's really strong.

[262] Did she have aspirations that?

[263] that she regretted not pursuing, and she told you girls, you're not doing this, what I did.

[264] My mom always raised me to be a leader.

[265] Her father was in the Air Force, and they lived all over the world growing up.

[266] He was also the mayor in a small town in Montana at one point.

[267] So I think she's always sort of, like, loved that and been excited about that I am by marriage and also through just my own sort of advocacy in that world.

[268] I also think she was conflicted and torn because of being the generation where you stayed home.

[269] and you raise your kit.

[270] So there's been a push pull and I've definitely felt judged at times.

[271] Sure.

[272] But I've also felt supported.

[273] It's not been without the hurdles and pain points.

[274] So my mother's hardcore feminists.

[275] Awesome.

[276] I also see where that was a huge burden of my sister.

[277] Because my mom accomplished all this stuff in spite of being in a very misogynistic world with a very misogynistic dad, who was still great, loved him, our grandpa.

[278] And then my dad, who was like, no, you're going to hang at home and I'm going to go sell cars.

[279] She did all this in spite of all that.

[280] So now I think my mom subconsciously was like, okay, you now better become president.

[281] Yeah.

[282] Which is so unfair.

[283] For any child to inherit their parents' aspirations is just a little bit tricky.

[284] Yeah.

[285] Yeah, definitely.

[286] Well, I'm just releasing tonight our documentary, The Great American Line, I think a lot of us are kind of unearthing this sort of comprehension that money and power isn't everything.

[287] But at the end of the day, it's about relationship, it's about love, it's about empathy, it's about building and community.

[288] Yeah, yeah.

[289] The shit that's free, it's frustrating.

[290] We've gotten off track as a nation.

[291] I'm hoping that we can all be a part of this larger movement to kind of come back together and find our common humanity and recognize that we have so much more in common and then it's not all this materialistic stuff.

[292] Yes, let's start at the beginning.

[293] The first thing out of the gates in the mask you live in that both Monica and I were like, oh, wow, we would not have guessed that and that doesn't sound right.

[294] they gave a psychological evaluation to 10 ,000 girls and boys and come to find out that the psychological profile is like 90 % overlapping, right?

[295] That there's only really 10 % difference between men and women and it's like 5 % on either shoulder of this bell curve.

[296] That right there was like, oh my God, is that even possible?

[297] Because I am a big defender of like, no, boys like what they like, girls like that.

[298] You guys can try all you want, but you put some fucking girls in a room and some boys and put trucks and dolls.

[299] It's going to happen from the get.

[300] I've always been kind of of that opinion.

[301] And then you walk us through, okay, well, if we started 90 % identical, what happens?

[302] So these general stereotypes that we think of is like, guys aren't as empathetic as women, which I certainly have thought that.

[303] My wife, she has to police her empathy.

[304] You see a commercial.

[305] And then she's fucking leveled for a half hour.

[306] Oh, I'm similar.

[307] Yeah.

[308] And then I'm watching it.

[309] And I'm like, yeah, out of my hands.

[310] can't change it.

[311] I don't know.

[312] I'll move on to the next, right?

[313] And I'm like, oh, there's something different physiological about us.

[314] So in your film, boys, we kind of beat empathy out of them.

[315] Yeah, at the earliest of ages.

[316] Some studies indicate that boys are born more sensitive at birth than girls and that we socialize it out of them.

[317] I can attest you from having two boys and two girls.

[318] My sons are more sensitive.

[319] More emotional.

[320] All kids are on the spectrum, right?

[321] But my two boys are more physical than the girls.

[322] The girls can kind of sit there and da -da -da.

[323] The boys are constantly moving.

[324] It's a spectrum.

[325] Everyone's sort of on that spectrum somewhere.

[326] But the boys are so attached to relationships are really, really important to them.

[327] And when those relationships are fraught or broken or vulnerable, they're emotional about it in ways that my girls, you know, they might have a little outburst or something, but they're steadier.

[328] And I find that really interesting.

[329] Yeah, it is.

[330] I could list all the many things that I agreed with.

[331] First and foremost, So I didn't have a dad around.

[332] So I was definitely like whatever the group of boys said was the benchmark of being manly, I got it from those guys.

[333] I fought, but I was terrified.

[334] Like it was all very scary.

[335] None of it was ever not terrifying.

[336] And yeah, I remember being very emotional.

[337] My best friend broke up with me in a way.

[338] There was no conventional way for us to address that.

[339] Like I couldn't have as a boy been like, oh my God, I'm so sad.

[340] I miss you.

[341] And why aren't we friends anymore?

[342] I would have been a fag.

[343] That would have been step one.

[344] Yeah.

[345] I just want to say that when I interviewed young boys and the experts who I also interviewed who have done all this research on young boys, these boys are desperate for intimate relationships with others and with themselves.

[346] And we are socializing that out of them.

[347] We're asking them to cut off their heads from their hearts and deny real feelings, real emotions, denying parts of themselves.

[348] And so it's not natural what we're doing to them, right?

[349] And how many of these middle school boys that have been?

[350] interviewed are a feeling like they can't ask other boys for help, right?

[351] They can't express their love, their affection.

[352] And they also are kind of, I thought this was really interesting, we're irritated with the pressure to objectify women and girls.

[353] These are middle school boys I'm talking about.

[354] They were like too much, too soon, too fast, I just want to be her friend.

[355] And I thought that was so beautiful.

[356] And of course, that's not true of everyone, but all the boys that I interviewed, that's how they felt.

[357] And I felt like marketers and the entertainment industry and adults aren't listening to those boys who just want to be boys and just want to have real relationships.

[358] They don't know how.

[359] So what's really fascinating, too, is I was aware of it, but it's not to you like laid it out words.

[360] The worst thing a boy can be is a girl.

[361] So you're acting like a girl.

[362] You're being girly.

[363] You're running like a girl.

[364] You're throwing like a girl.

[365] You're a sissy.

[366] And then the only thing worse than that would be that you're gay.

[367] That's like the A bomb if you're a boy.

[368] What happens to you subconsciously, which was so mind -blowing to me to think about, is if the worst thing in the world you can be as a girl, then clearly girls are below us.

[369] It's like no one never said, hey, girls are less than us.

[370] But by saying the worst thing you could be as a girl, you're telling me they're lower than us.

[371] Right.

[372] It's that hierarchy.

[373] Yeah.

[374] The hierarchy of our gendered values.

[375] So to be strong and masculine's on top and to be feminine and supposedly weak is on the bottom, right?

[376] Right?

[377] So by virtue of that, boys that are gay and girls and people of color, unfortunately, in our country right now, are perceived as less than or inferior.

[378] Uh -huh.

[379] I think it's changing, obviously, with younger generations, but that's the historic socialization that we've all been confronted with, frankly, not just harming our boys and men, but harming us as a larger society.

[380] Yes.

[381] Because we have this stupid hierarchy that privileges the few and harms the many.

[382] Yeah, so few people can achieve the thing they're supposed to.

[383] to achieve ultimate alpha status, you know, the president or the this or the leader of the odds wise, that's a very low percentage occupation for anybody.

[384] Yeah.

[385] You're left wanting to perform masculinities and it's just this constant sort of striving to prove your masculinitys and it's exhausting.

[386] Yeah.

[387] And it's not natural.

[388] And you're being presented this and I remember as a boy going, I'm different because I feel sad and I miss. clay and I'm this but everyone else if I'm to believe everything I'm being told I'm the odd one out so probably all the boys are feeling that way like oh everyone seems to be cool with all this but I'm not but I guess I better shut up and you know painful okay I agreed with 99 % your documentary it's so phenomenal here's some interesting debates that have come out of because I've recommended that a lot of people we know watch it and many of them have universally women love it yeah it's more polarizing for men Although boys and men have said it's changed their lives and their relationships with their fathers.

[389] I don't doubt that at all.

[390] I mean, probably the most profound moment for me is interviewing the guys in San Francisco in prison.

[391] They're somewhere in the Bay Area.

[392] Yes, San Quentin.

[393] San Quentin.

[394] Yeah.

[395] Juvenile offenders, some have been released.

[396] Oh, really?

[397] Yeah.

[398] So cool.

[399] I love any moment where you see something, you're like, they're different.

[400] They look different than me. They're in prison.

[401] They're the enemy.

[402] That's why we have police.

[403] That's why we have prison.

[404] They have tattoos on their faces.

[405] They must be bad.

[406] They must be bad.

[407] They're choloed out or they're white nationalist out.

[408] They are the embodiment of what everyone's afraid of.

[409] And then you hear them start sharing and to all of a sudden be so heartbroken for them and why they're there without taking away like, of course, what they did deserves punishment and they're going to pay that and all that.

[410] But define within that compassion for why they ended up there is my favorite kind of ride to take.

[411] Yeah.

[412] And then I recently saw another documentary.

[413] I wonder if you've seen it was on front line and it was about this.

[414] doctor who was praying on Indian reservations he was like a oh I know about this thought I want to see it oh my god so I'm watching it in this fucking guy he was a doctor which they can't get doctors at these Native American reservations you know he had access to all these boys he molested hundreds of boys and what starts becoming obvious in the documentary is like there's almost no one to interview of his victims because they're all in prison and when they show the boys that are in prison they have neck tattoos.

[415] They're built like brick shit houses.

[416] They're screaming to the world.

[417] Don't take advantage of me. Don't take advantage of me. I'm not going to be a victim.

[418] Look at me. I'm scary.

[419] Stay away.

[420] I was like, oh my God, they didn't have a shot.

[421] I know masculine is a weird word to use, but let's just say for the sake of this, in the conventional way to rob the kid's masculinity right out of the gates, the attempt to reclaim it.

[422] There's only so many options to do it.

[423] And they're so extreme that it was just like, oh, this was so predictable.

[424] And especially for kids of color, right?

[425] Immigrant kids, because they don't have the traditional path to success because we have a system that punishes them inequitably, right?

[426] Because they're born in a zip code where the school system isn't great and there's no ladder to opportunity.

[427] We don't have an uncle that's calling in a favor to his buddy to interview you.

[428] There's no net whatsoever.

[429] Yeah.

[430] So all that to say, I love that part with the prisoners, because I found myself, like, wanting to hug every one of those guys so much.

[431] By the way, me too.

[432] And I remember going there and someone's like, Jen, I just want to remind you.

[433] They murdered people.

[434] And the funny thing is, I was like, well, they're actually healthier than a lot of men out there in the room room.

[435] Because they've done the work, because they've sat in a cell and they've done the work.

[436] They've read the books.

[437] They've studied.

[438] They've meditated.

[439] Group therapy.

[440] They've done group therapy.

[441] And I'm really hoping the best.

[442] for those who have been released because I think that they deserve a second chance.

[443] I think everyone deserves a second chance.

[444] Yes.

[445] Okay, now here's the part that I want to just open up to debate.

[446] Do it.

[447] Yes.

[448] If I can hit a switch on the wall and we click to Utopia, I'm all in for this.

[449] Let's have Boys Be as vulnerable and emotional and all that is possible and nonviolent.

[450] I love it.

[451] Let's flip the switch.

[452] Now, short of flipping the switch, we're not this way by accident.

[453] We've been here for 140 ,000 years, 130 ,000 of those years, other men came into camp and tried to steal the women and the kids men had to do some gnarly shit and to do gnarly shit you've got to create compartmentalization in their heads so that they can go into a zone where it's like yeah about to hit another human in the head with a club to protect all these people so that's what's a little bit interesting about the psychological profile and us being 90 % the same because we have been tasked for the vast majority of time we've been here with doing the really ugly crazy shit.

[454] It's a little dicey to now go, great.

[455] We appreciate that that's how it was forever, but now it's not.

[456] No, totally.

[457] Let me try something and see if this is a solution to kind of what you're sharing.

[458] So we're living in this modern era where the transformative leader is embrace, the leader that's more community collaborative oriented, more empathic oriented.

[459] In a global economy, you need people to be able to multitask.

[460] You need that sort of less siloed thinking, right?

[461] The sideload thinking has gotten us to in a lot of trouble.

[462] Wall Street.

[463] Look at the traders.

[464] The tribalism.

[465] And one thing that we found historically is that because women have been socialized and portrayed roles that were more communal and relational oriented and because of the nature of having to manage multiple things at the same time, that those skill sets are sort of rising as necessary in a global economy.

[466] So it's more that the conditions that we're all living in right now are requiring men to evolve and requiring women to step up into leadership.

[467] So they're requiring men to not be so siloed and requiring women to actually perhaps be a little more siloed so that they can lead, right?

[468] Because I think what we found is that we've been missing women's voices at the tables of power and without that feminine voice, which obviously all.

[469] men have, whether they're using it or not, without that feminine voice, we've gotten into a lot of trouble, right?

[470] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[471] And I know I'm combining, which is why my film series is a trilogy, is I'm kind of combining the themes of the different films and kind of pulling them together, which is just a recognition that we're all born with the masculine and feminine in us, and it's helping the men who, frankly, are suffering more now because they're missing the relationship, they're wanting that relationship.

[472] They're wanting the care and empathy and the relationship with their children.

[473] And, you know, the madmen errors, that didn't make them happy.

[474] They're left with all their secrets.

[475] They don't talk to anybody.

[476] There's no relief.

[477] Yeah, yeah.

[478] And so, whereas women are going, whoa, okay, I've got the home front down.

[479] I actually have much more to contribute.

[480] Yeah.

[481] Here's the conundrum.

[482] I count my lucky stars.

[483] I don't have boys.

[484] I'm so grateful I have girls.

[485] Because Dax Jr. comes home from school and he's been pushed down in the hallway five times by the same guy everyone laughed at him all this stuff yeah now i know from my experience the choice that dax junior can make is spend the next 10 years getting that treatment right or punch the dude because it'll stop i would i would struggle so much with the right decision because i think obviously the future is no violence utopia doesn't have violence i know that i also i don't want my son to be the sacrificial lamb on the transition until utopia how do we navigate that it's all one thing for us to recognize recognize how this is working and see the problems.

[486] But in elementary schools, they don't give a shit about what we discovered.

[487] Yeah.

[488] Hateful words and bullying isn't just something that young boys experience, right?

[489] And obviously, yes, we see fewer girls engage in physical violence.

[490] When it comes to the future, though, I think there's a lot of work incumbent upon all of us who have sons.

[491] I take this very seriously because I have physical boys who pick up a stick and it's a gun.

[492] Yeah, of course.

[493] And I'm not crazy about guns.

[494] My son, Hunter, will be Hunter.

[495] Well, I was just going to say you gave him the wrong name if you don't like guns.

[496] I totally did.

[497] I was like, hi, that was really smart, Jen.

[498] It was my favorite name.

[499] You just like Hunter Green.

[500] Yeah, exactly.

[501] I love Hunter Green.

[502] But Hunter, he's out there with the bone arrow with my dad in Montana, and he seeks adventure, and he's that kid.

[503] And so I'm trying to teach him responsibility.

[504] And at some point, soon he'll learn proper gun ownership and management and safety.

[505] I taught him at the earliest of eight.

[506] ages that care is not an attribute that's relegated to women, that I gave him a doll when he was a little kid.

[507] I taught him to be Dr. Hunter, so it was all about, if anybody got hurt, where's the ice, where's the bandaid?

[508] And I go out of my way to hug him and hold him and show him what healthy relationships look like, what empathy looks like.

[509] For me, I know he is who he is.

[510] I accept that.

[511] I embrace that.

[512] And I think it's my responsibility as a parent to teach him to care, to teach him empathy and so far he's a pretty good kid you know people say he's polite he's super kind and that's what i think we have to do then our little guy dutch so cute he's three the other day i was putting makeup on and he goes can i have some and i'm like sure dude and then he was asking me questions i can't remember what it was it was like a toothbrush or something and i was like which one do you want it's the pink or purple and he's like well pink is for girls i have to correct that right off the spot no actually but you can have the pink one and so i just let them explore and just be human i think that's ultimately what we need to do with all of our kids.

[513] Like you have your daughters out driving the...

[514] Doom buggies.

[515] Dune buggies.

[516] Raise them to be human beings.

[517] I'm just raising them to be fun to hang out with for me. It's all very selfish.

[518] But that's so far.

[519] It's probably working.

[520] At the end of the day, we all just want to raise human beings that can get along and have fun and enjoy life and be a part of a community.

[521] Yes.

[522] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[523] If you dare.

[524] We've all been there.

[525] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[526] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[527] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[528] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[529] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[530] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[531] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[532] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[533] What's up guys?

[534] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you it's too good.

[535] into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[536] Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[537] And I don't mean just friends.

[538] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[539] The list goes on.

[540] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[541] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[542] Okay, now here's the other big debate that happened.

[543] Yes.

[544] I think one thing that was left out of the documentary is this isn't going to happen from boys changing solo.

[545] Right.

[546] There's an interplay of boys and girls.

[547] Whatever girls are picking are what the boys are going to be.

[548] Yeah.

[549] So it's one thing to say like, no, cry on the playground, be sympathetic, all these things, and never have a girlfriend.

[550] That won't happen.

[551] So my wife loved it.

[552] It was like, yes, we should raise all boys this way.

[553] And I'm like, honey, that's great.

[554] You married a fucking gorilla.

[555] The other two people I was having that conversation, one's married to an NHL badass.

[556] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[557] And the other one's married to another fucking six foot three actor who's a stud.

[558] So if you all pick alpha studs, it's not going to be easy to convince the boys below us that, no, trust, it'll all work out.

[559] The girls are going to pick you.

[560] It's rewarded by girls, by society, but also by girls.

[561] And I've just met you, but the little bit I know about you in this podcast and what I know about my husband is there is empathy.

[562] There's depth.

[563] There's heart.

[564] There's soul.

[565] You can be a stud, but if you also have the heart and the soul and the depth and you stand up for those who are our most vulnerable and you out inequities in our society, I think that's a win -win.

[566] I do too.

[567] That's a really cool thing they're doing at my daughter's school.

[568] Yep.

[569] They have a thing called upstanders.

[570] Kids get upstander awards.

[571] Like the coolest thing you can be currently is someone who would get involved with a situation and diffuse it.

[572] Yeah.

[573] And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's a cool solution.

[574] Because to ask the two people who are emotionally involved in a conflict to be rational is a little pie in the sky.

[575] Yeah.

[576] But to train the community to get involved, that seems like a viable solution.

[577] I mean, I know you already know this, but it is not your guerrilla behavior that is the attractive part of you to Kristen.

[578] That's not why she married you.

[579] Yeah.

[580] She married you because of all of these other elements, the empathy and the sensitivity and the introspection.

[581] and those things.

[582] And probably same with who I think you're talking about the six -foot -three person, I think.

[583] Well, I will say my husband's really attractive.

[584] Oh, he's so fucking good look.

[585] And he's on the ground playing with the kids.

[586] This morning, he was playing a sport with our daughter at like 715, which I was really into.

[587] She was out of my hair.

[588] And I was like, oh, that's so sexy.

[589] Being a father is sexy.

[590] Being a present father, being a present father.

[591] maker is really sexy.

[592] I mean, obviously, sometimes when I hear him speak, I go, oh, I really love you.

[593] I'm proud of you.

[594] But I really love who he is inside.

[595] Yes, but I do think that that's second gear stuff.

[596] So yes, that's what got you to marry.

[597] I don't think so because they're not observable out of the gates.

[598] But I do think your point is well said.

[599] I think that some women have mixed their priorities, just as men have mixed their priorities.

[600] And I think some people want to marry someone who's rich who's going to take care of them.

[601] I remember dating guys, and if they had a lot of money, I ran the other way.

[602] I just felt like I was a piece of property or meat, and it really made me uncomfortable.

[603] So I think that's a problem in our society.

[604] I think it's something we have to address.

[605] I meet so many people, and I've met the guys that are already kind of talking down to their wife and this and that, and it makes me so uncomfortable.

[606] Yeah, yeah, it's the worst.

[607] We just have to do more, I think, with future generations.

[608] And what do they say?

[609] It takes 20 years to change culture.

[610] Okay.

[611] And we're only kind of in the beginning stages of having a national conversation around toxic masculinity.

[612] I think it's really shrinking, though.

[613] It's happening so much faster.

[614] Just the mere fact that people are in trouble for what they said six years ago, which was totally fine six years ago.

[615] Yes.

[616] We're moving so fast that people are real time getting caught in a different cultural era.

[617] Yeah.

[618] No, no, that was fine five minutes ago.

[619] But I'm cool.

[620] I'll change.

[621] But yeah, I did do that five minutes ago.

[622] And the pendulum always swings.

[623] And sometimes it swings too far on those sides.

[624] And I think that we're going to find our way hopefully back in the middle.

[625] a place where men and women and all of us can be human beings and treat each other with dignity and respect and be our true selves, but lead more with our shared humanity and not being a stereotype.

[626] Yes.

[627] And again, I'm going to probably make the same mistake again for the 29th time, but I will say any solution that involves one person, I'm apprehensive about it.

[628] Yeah.

[629] So the movement is toxic masculinity.

[630] First and foremost, 95 % of boys, I went to L .D .S. schools.

[631] 95 % of the boys are sweethearts.

[632] They're actually not these.

[633] They're the victims of the 5 % that are big alpha jock, whatever's.

[634] So already it's like, well, hold on now, many of these boys are already kind of what you want them to be.

[635] So that's not really that fair.

[636] And just the notion that the whole thing isn't one organism.

[637] It's one organism.

[638] It's like when people are like, I'm going to treat my liver.

[639] No, you're not.

[640] You got to treat your whole body.

[641] I always am a little scared when it's like, which is why it's cultural work.

[642] Yeah, we don't got to fix boys.

[643] We have to fix boys.

[644] girls.

[645] We've got to fix the whole thing.

[646] Yes, totally.

[647] But also, this was part of making misrepresentation, which is, I mean, we're both playing roles.

[648] Let's just, we're all playing roles.

[649] And we have to just shed the roles.

[650] I think if you just look at like one thing, if you isolate just sexuality, how sexuality has changed since I graduated high school.

[651] So I'm in AA.

[652] I hear young men be honest all the time.

[653] I listen to like 20 -something year old guys share about hooking up with prostitutes that have a penis and boobs.

[654] There's no declaration of like, I'm gay, I'm straight, I'm this, I'm that, I'm into trans, I'm not into this.

[655] I've just been able to observe like, wow, that changed quickly and interestingly.

[656] Like, for these group of guys, they're just sexual or not sexual, and that might include a whole bunch of stuff.

[657] So in that way, the conventional role, thank God, has kind of broken down.

[658] And then I think that can extend out to all these male, female, masculine, feminine.

[659] And I'm hoping all that becomes a little more fluid and a less binary.

[660] Yeah.

[661] I was just tying it to like current events and how afraid some of those men might be.

[662] Yeah.

[663] Or must be.

[664] They're not liking how quickly we're changing.

[665] They're trying to hold on to the old guard and the old way and the old roles of women at home and men at work and people as like either this type or that type, but not the fluidity.

[666] Well, with good reason, there's several things.

[667] One is we all look through our memory with a rose tinted viewpoint.

[668] So we all cherish our childhood for whatever it is.

[669] Like I would be defending to keep single mother status a thing because that's my child in and I loved it.

[670] People have idyllic, well, when I grew up, it was like this and it was simple and we all crave simplicity and no one wants to be taxed with working out nuance.

[671] It's just difficult.

[672] Yeah.

[673] So I understand the appeal of it.

[674] And I understand the kind of nostalgia of like, no, let's protect something that got us here.

[675] And we have made a lot of progress.

[676] And this place is a good place.

[677] Yeah, and the fear of the unknown.

[678] Change is scary for people.

[679] And I think what a lot of guys are hearing is that they're not going to be.

[680] be allowed to be guys.

[681] See, I think a lot of these movements really suffer from bad branding.

[682] Just bad advertising.

[683] Yes, I agree.

[684] For whatever reason, the GOP is kind of great at it, actually.

[685] They're the best.

[686] They're really good at it.

[687] Yes, I can see where it's being perceived as toxic masculinity.

[688] Well, hold on.

[689] Okay.

[690] So the things I like are toxic or the things I'm drawn to.

[691] So I think people start with a fear that like, you're going to try to take away the things I like, as opposed to, no, we're going to try to add all this other stuff.

[692] And hopefully through adding all this other stuff, I think it's going to make everything a lot more right size.

[693] So it's like let's add empathy.

[694] Let's add tenderness.

[695] Let's add emotions.

[696] Let's add vocalizing your fear.

[697] I'm not going to take football away from you.

[698] You want to play football go crazy.

[699] But I think people are hearing you can't drive a truck anymore or you can't go hunting anymore.

[700] So I just wish it was branded better and sold better and didn't trigger a defensive feeling that my I was at risk.

[701] Yep.

[702] I agree.

[703] 100%.

[704] I'm happy to work on the branding with you.

[705] Oh, great.

[706] I think we have a real opportunity because I agree.

[707] Look, I was raised in a conservative household.

[708] A lot of this is miscommunications, misunderstanding, labeling, stereotypes, all the stuff that we kind of have to disrupt and recreate.

[709] Yes.

[710] To your point that I'm not an alpha gorilla.

[711] Mm -hmm.

[712] What I'm trying to share is like, no, I do all those things and I really like all these other things.

[713] And it's not taking a toll on my...

[714] But that's not the toxic part.

[715] That's the thing.

[716] That's the thing with white privilege too when people get defensive.

[717] They're not hearing the real truth of what those two things mean.

[718] They might hear a phrase and then react.

[719] Yeah.

[720] Yeah.

[721] So yes, branding is good, but it's also a matter of just not wanting to hear what that really means.

[722] Being masculine isn't toxic.

[723] These aspects of masculinity are toxic.

[724] Toxic masculinity is, you know, a value system that's about power, control, dominance, and aggression.

[725] It's not being dignified, working hard, being respectful, caring for your family and your community.

[726] Those are all beautiful attributes of being men.

[727] But toxic is really when it's taken to the extreme, you know, story of harassment of women, abuse of women, the business dealings, lying, cheating, you know, bad business, that kind of behavior.

[728] The bullying, the threats, the demeaning, that's toxic, right?

[729] Yeah, yeah.

[730] If I could use a single word to describe all that, it would be dominance, like valuing dominance to be dominant over this.

[731] You're dominant over your career, dominant on the football field, dominant here, dominant, dominant, dominant.

[732] Yeah.

[733] Yeah, that is seen as something appealing to when at all cost model yeah any young boy in search of empowerment could see dominance as the metric by which they're measuring that power you know yeah which is terrible and not advisable now your new documentary let's talk about that because another topic that really fascinates me the great american lie is it mostly exploring income inequality or that's just an element of it It basically uners our cultural values that have gotten us to this place where we have as much social and economic inequality and immobility as we had right before the Great Depression.

[734] And as a result of all this, we have a crisis of connection.

[735] When the top 0 .1 % own as much wealth as the bottom 90%, there's something wrong.

[736] And obviously, when you witness the divisiveness in our society, socially, politically and culturally, we're, at a breaking point.

[737] Supposedly, Plutarch said that the end of civilization, as you know it, is when you have these huge gaps between the rich and the poor.

[738] So the film is really a wake -up call.

[739] We follow five characters across the country on their journeys, exploring the systemic inequities that are delved from the sort of mass -skillness value system in their communities.

[740] And we provide inspiration and a path forward in the third act.

[741] I'm really proud of it.

[742] Oh, good.

[743] How long did it take you to make it?

[744] I started making it when I was making the mask you live in because it was sort of to me the third film in the trilogy that looked at the social, political, and economic ramifications of the U .S. dominator system of us living in this hypermasculine country and culture.

[745] As is kind of typical, I guess, with documentaries or in my experience, I ended up then putting it to the side and finishing the mask you live in and then kind of reconvening with different characters.

[746] and I went deeper into the South and the Midwest after the 2016 election.

[747] Now, what I felt fascinating about the broken ladder was it would be very easy to just go, money's the problem, the wealth's the problem.

[748] But the very first chapter in the book is about statistics on airplanes.

[749] They have all the data for over 10 million flights, right?

[750] And the rate by which a violent encounter will happen in the air within the cabin, either first or coach, is three times.

[751] higher when people have to walk through first class to get to coach.

[752] Interesting.

[753] It's twice as high if they enter in the middle of the plane and turn left to go to first class and right to go to coach.

[754] Then the baseline is if there's no division.

[755] And so he said, you know, this is really easy to think of as a case of the haves and have -nots.

[756] And the have -nots have to witness the haves and then they feel less than.

[757] But he's like, that's not even the story.

[758] These are not have -nots.

[759] An average flight is $350.

[760] People have time to take off work to fly and travel.

[761] this is the haves and the have mores.

[762] This isn't even the have not.

[763] So there's no real objective way to analyze it.

[764] It's all comparative.

[765] Yes.

[766] That's where it's dangerous.

[767] So another great bit of data was people who feel poor achieve the lowest level of educational achievement, the lowest income.

[768] Now, there are many people who are objectively poor, but there's no example of anyone rich around them or wealthier, they don't suffer from that data.

[769] It's feeling poor is much stronger than being poor.

[770] Right.

[771] I don't think the left or right has the answer.

[772] The left's like, well, let's just chop it all up into a pot and divide it evenly.

[773] That to me is not going to solve it.

[774] And I don't think the right's going to solve it either with, well, then they can lift them up by their bootstraps and be rich themselves.

[775] I don't think that's it either.

[776] Right.

[777] I think there's a mental disease that humans have that we compare ourselves to everyone.

[778] around us and I will go to Robert Downey Jr's house and I'll look at my wife and go, we are flat broke.

[779] We are fucking poor.

[780] You know, like, yeah.

[781] You know, if that's the game we're locked into capitalism and I think it's baked into advertising and it's it's the fuel by which capitalism's running on.

[782] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[783] And I don't want to dismantle capitalism.

[784] Right.

[785] But you could have conscious capitalism.

[786] There we go.

[787] By the way, I love that you said the whole comparison bit because Joe Ehrman, who we were talking about earlier, who we love from the mask you live in.

[788] Oh, I love him.

[789] beautiful quote that he has is that comparison is the thief of all happiness.

[790] Yeah.

[791] And my husband and I talk about that a lot.

[792] We try and teach our children that.

[793] You know, my little guy is, Mom, someone who has a dirt bike, can I have a dirt bike?

[794] Like, someone who has this, can I have a thing?

[795] And I'm like, oh, again, to your point, advertising, capitalism, the whole thing.

[796] But so comparison is the thief of all happiness.

[797] Raj Shetty's research unveils that the zip code that you're born into and the family that you are born into are the largest determinants of your destiny.

[798] Only 7 % rise from the bottom economic quintile to the top economic quintile.

[799] But the rungs in the ladder have gotten so much wider that it's so much harder right to get to the top.

[800] And even if you are of among the 7 % that quadrupled the circumstance you came from and you came from a household 16 ,000, then great.

[801] You've quadrupled it and you're just lower middle class.

[802] We as a society have to and can hone in on those zip codes in particular and provide more.

[803] wrap around support to those communities to ensure that children have the best opportunities, right, to fulfill their potential and that families get the right support.

[804] So what we're trying to do in California through the governor's office and the family first agenda is really kind of wrap around focusing on how we can support parents in some cases with social services like the earn income tax credit as an example of a refund for those in the lower income bracket or paid families.

[805] leave, all these sorts of ways that we can be creative and think about addressing the affordability crisis in California, for example.

[806] Yeah.

[807] And what we can also do is go, okay, these are the zip codes where the schools are failing.

[808] And what kind of support can we provide to the educators and the children in those communities such that we address the readiness gap, right?

[809] Not just the opportunity gap.

[810] And the readiness gap, actually, even is my husband's championing, is like prenatal care.

[811] It's nurse home visits.

[812] It's all the things to make sure that the mother and the family get the best support early in life so that the children can thrive.

[813] Oh, yeah.

[814] There's a crazy data, right?

[815] If a kid sits in a diaper, like if a kid's diapers only changed once a day, they're going to be eight IQ points low.

[816] Like there's just all this crazy data on what the nurturing that early couple years results in.

[817] How critical it is to read to our kids and write to them and make sure they have the best child care at the earliest of ages.

[818] I mean, all of that, again, which is a luxury if you have well.

[819] wealth, whereas it's a pain point if you're working three jobs and living in an apartment you can't afford.

[820] No, no. I am so overly aware of the fact that we have money, we're married, my sister is full -time with us, their aunt.

[821] That's awesome.

[822] It's so hard as fuck.

[823] I know.

[824] And I have everything at my disposal.

[825] And I go like, how on earth did my mother work 65 hours a week and clean our house and cook and wash her clothes, would she sleep a half hour a night?

[826] Like, it's so hard.

[827] See, that's something I'm totally in favor of.

[828] I would also argue, even if you're like fiscally conservative, this show's very apolitical.

[829] I'm not interested at all in alienating any part of the audience.

[830] But I would say, even if you're crazy fiscally conservative, great.

[831] So many of these are wins for the economy long term.

[832] When you look at incarceration, when it costs to jail people, what an emergency room vid its homelessness, you look at you add that stuff up.

[833] And guys, it's a fucking bargain to invest in kids.

[834] Totally.

[835] So you know the stat, right?

[836] A state spend on average 45 ,000 to 350 ,000 a year incarcerating a juvenile offender.

[837] They only spend around $11 ,000 per kid, per student per year.

[838] Right.

[839] Four times more on average.

[840] To punish.

[841] At a minimum, they're spending on juvenile offenders.

[842] Yes.

[843] It's insane.

[844] And we all know you have to invest in children at the earliest of ages when their brains are just forming those critical, first few years are when you need to really prepare them, all of their senses, provide the best nutrition, the best sleep, the best sort of exposure to healthy natural environment, right?

[845] Yeah.

[846] To ensure that they get the best chance in life, the best start in life.

[847] Yes.

[848] If you invest in the beginning, it's going to pay off in GDP growth because these are going to be contributing citizens versus citizens who are dependent or unfortunately, perpetuating cycles of poverty because they're stuck.

[849] Yes.

[850] You know, the thing, though, that never seems to be a part of these plans that I wish were, that should all happen.

[851] That's great.

[852] Even if the kids rise out of poverty and they become super middle class, they're still going to feel poor.

[853] So I want a class, a mandatory class on mental health.

[854] Here's who you're allowed to compare yourself to, earlier versions of yourself.

[855] That's it.

[856] You're on a trajectory trying to better yourself.

[857] That's it.

[858] Stay in your lane.

[859] Look at yourself.

[860] Be a better you.

[861] Forget about it.

[862] Like, there needs to be an anecdote to advertising.

[863] I don't want advertising going away.

[864] It's making this possible.

[865] You and I sitting here.

[866] It's fantastic.

[867] I love it.

[868] But not on like TV when it was on the public airways.

[869] And the FCA was like, yeah, we'll let you do all this programming, but you need to do news.

[870] Yes.

[871] And you need to do child education.

[872] Yes.

[873] That's part of the deal.

[874] You get all this shit, but you got to do this.

[875] So part of capitalism is like, let's put some of that money into letting kids have some tools to, evaluate the ads they're seeing.

[876] Evaluate what it's doing to their self -esteem.

[877] Let them know that that's happening.

[878] Yes.

[879] There's a study that came out recently, a friend that is over at Kaiser, Permanente, shared that the largest group of suicide deaths currently are young girls.

[880] I'm going to get this stat slightly wrong.

[881] Monocle.

[882] But it's like ages 19 to 25.

[883] Does that surprise us with social media and the...

[884] Oh, the isolation.

[885] The isolation, the anxiety, the depression.

[886] They're not even having sex anymore.

[887] Yeah.

[888] So I was with some friends who are actually women in the legislature, who are now my friends, who were sharing with me that their daughters go to events with all their peers, boys and girls alike, and they don't actually even really stay at the event.

[889] They go to the event.

[890] They take a selfie and then they Photoshop the stupid selfie and then post it.

[891] It's all that status.

[892] Sure, sure, sure.

[893] Yeah.

[894] And it's not healthy at all.

[895] And it breaks my heart.

[896] Yeah.

[897] My daughters are going to hate my guts.

[898] It's just around the corner.

[899] So I'm just not having it.

[900] No, good.

[901] Yeah, I'm not doing it.

[902] Maybe when they're 40, they'll thank me on my deathbed.

[903] Exactly.

[904] No, I'm right there with you.

[905] I love the campaign.

[906] Actually, we want to do something at the state level that's around wait to eight, eight being eighth grade.

[907] I would even say wait till like 11 or 12, but 11th or 12.

[908] But which is really about not giving your kids access to the end.

[909] internet, a .k. not giving them iPhones until they're older.

[910] Because it's, the social media is destructive.

[911] Well, let's start by saying, I guarantee you and your husband sit on the couch next to each other staring at your fucking phones.

[912] Oh, he actually has serious issue with me ever being on the phone.

[913] And I'm like, honey, I get really mad at him.

[914] I'm like, I'm actually taking care of our children.

[915] Or I'm actually arranging for the dog who has some disease to go to the vet.

[916] I'm like, I am being the person that takes care of everything.

[917] You, on the other hand, are doing your work, which is okay, it's important, but still.

[918] But it's funny, we have this little thing about it.

[919] I can admit, I'm powerless over this stupid fucking four by six thing in my hand.

[920] I've made my world four by six.

[921] I'm doing that.

[922] If I don't have control over it and I'm wrestling to have control of it, how on earth is a 10 -year -old going to have control over it?

[923] Oh, exactly.

[924] It's like, well, try cocaine.

[925] Let's just try.

[926] Hey, do you like that?

[927] Yeah, yeah.

[928] Yeah, I couldn't manage it either.

[929] I'm so shocked.

[930] You can't either?

[931] Wow, look at this.

[932] With no frontal cortex fucking developed.

[933] It is addictive.

[934] And actually, it's irritating to me. And we have work to do to basically out what all those in technology know, which is why they send their kids to schools where Waldorf -type schools.

[935] And their children don't have access to all forms of media.

[936] We have work to do.

[937] And part of it comes.

[938] respect we were talking about earlier, which is conscious capitalism.

[939] Like, how can we inspire and hold accountable corporate America and businesses across the country to create businesses and products, products for our kids that aren't addictive, that aren't hyperviolent and hypersexual, that actually are healthy so that there's a social bottom line.

[940] There can be an environmental belt bottom line.

[941] There can be a mental health bottom line.

[942] There's so many other kind of triple bottom line models, quadruple bottom line models.

[943] We just have to be more creative.

[944] Yeah.

[945] And we just have to commit to not just be all about the money.

[946] Yeah.

[947] And there obviously is a movement.

[948] Some call it conscious capitalism.

[949] Some call it inclusive capitalism.

[950] But I know that that's where we have to go.

[951] I think California can do that.

[952] I mean, we have to.

[953] We're the home of entertainment and technology.

[954] And so we have a responsibility.

[955] As California goes, so can go to the country.

[956] Yeah.

[957] Yeah.

[958] Okay.

[959] And you chose to go by the first partner.

[960] Explain this to me, please.

[961] So first partner is just a continuation of my work at the Representation Project where we were basically unearthing and disrupting limiting stereotypes, gender stereotypes and norms.

[962] First partners, gender inclusive and first partners, gender expansive.

[963] So we will have a female governor someday.

[964] Oh, I got you.

[965] And then I wanted to put out into the world because we live in such a rugged individualistic country, that partnership is the way forward.

[966] Through partnership, we will move.

[967] move forward faster to society.

[968] And so first partner is really also recognizing that it really takes partnership to be successful.

[969] And that's really what we're trying to embody in the capital.

[970] I love that explanation.

[971] Because I was like, by you not wanting to go by First Lady, to me, is implied that somehow being lady would not be desirable.

[972] See, I didn't fill in the blank.

[973] Yeah.

[974] No, I filled in the blank and I was wrong.

[975] Right, right, right.

[976] But I love that, that it's more or less paving the road for someone else to not have to be in the murky, of what am i yeah i dig that that's that's nice okay well we will continue to promote for free the mask you live in we absolutely love it we said it so many times that at one point we said we can't say it for a couple episodes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no thank you so much it made an impact well and it's necessary though right because not enough people have been sort of socialized to go oh I don't have to be what culture is telling me to be.

[977] I can just be me. Yeah.

[978] So good to meet you.

[979] It's so nice to meet you.

[980] Thank you.

[981] Your husband's so fucking gorgeous.

[982] When he is on Bill Mar, I am like, Monica and I watch.

[983] He's good on Billmar, right?

[984] He's great.

[985] He's a student.

[986] He like works really hard.

[987] He's also got tons of swag.

[988] I want to talk more about his looks.

[989] We already know he's like smart and a good person.

[990] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[991] It's time to turn the table.

[992] Let's objectify him.

[993] I take all my desire to objectify and I turn it all on men.

[994] He does have a superpower, which is, I'll listen to that, motherfucker, talk about anything because he's just so good looking.

[995] I'll just, I'll look at him.

[996] And I'm like, yeah, I'll hang out for another.

[997] But I'll be a little packet.

[998] He delivers, but I am way more open to just stare at him talking because I'm so transfixed by his handsomeness.

[999] And Monica, you are too.

[1000] Don't even deny it.

[1001] I like his brain more than his face.

[1002] Of course.

[1003] But that face is a great conduit to that brain.

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] I think we win in actually, I think there's a good portion of us that actually like the brain.

[1006] and the heart more than the wealth and the looks.

[1007] Oh, Kyle, we're killing ourselves in the gym.

[1008] We don't have to.

[1009] We should be at the library.

[1010] You should be at the library.

[1011] It's super sexy.

[1012] That's where all the girls are.

[1013] You might as well.

[1014] I know.

[1015] It's exactly what all the girls are.

[1016] Guys, I don't think anyone's at the library anymore, but yes, point remains.

[1017] And, oh, last thing, having Secret Service is the weirdest thing?

[1018] Part of it's fun.

[1019] In the beginning, it's strange and you feel a little bit uncomfortable or trapped.

[1020] But then these guys and women.

[1021] are so cool.

[1022] They just become family.

[1023] As everyone says, you really miss them when they're gone.

[1024] Yeah.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] You really do.

[1027] You really do.

[1028] You get attached.

[1029] You got to watch out.

[1030] You don't succumb to like a my bodyguard thing because I notice is handsome and he's very like capable.

[1031] And I just, you know, I just want to caution you.

[1032] I don't know.

[1033] Well, that doesn't stop a lot of folks.

[1034] So just have your guard up, okay?

[1035] Because I could see everyone in a bedroom.

[1036] I don't know.

[1037] Well, that's that's true.

[1038] That's true.

[1039] Let's not rule anything out.

[1040] But I think should he tackle you out?

[1041] of the way of something, there might be a moment in slow motion where you're just, you glance up at and you're like, oh, wow.

[1042] I guess I didn't notice eyes were that beautiful.

[1043] Just have your guard up a little bit.

[1044] Okay, here's my little plea.

[1045] We need more women in law enforcement.

[1046] Yes, we can bring the capacity to diffuse, which is so essential.

[1047] That's a whole other topic we'll talk about.

[1048] Yeah, de -escalation and diffusing.

[1049] It's so crucial.

[1050] I'm the worst at it.

[1051] Okay, thank you so much.

[1052] It was such a pleasure to talk to you.

[1053] to speak with you too.

[1054] Good night.

[1055] Bye.

[1056] Thank you.

[1057] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1058] Monica, I have a lot of congestion.

[1059] We're dealing with lots of pollen and allergens in the air.

[1060] And even you are suffering.

[1061] I am.

[1062] And I have no allergies normally.

[1063] I take pride in that.

[1064] I brag about it.

[1065] You do.

[1066] And guess what?

[1067] You two are fallible and vulnerable to the pollen and the bounty of bird.

[1068] burgeoning life here in Michigan.

[1069] Got me. These Michiganders got me. So this is not an ad.

[1070] This is not a sponsor, but we're both pounding.

[1071] Zyrtec D. It's got that suitorifet in it.

[1072] It's nice.

[1073] It makes a huge difference, doesn't it?

[1074] Oh, yeah.

[1075] Oh, and then what was funny is you can only buy one box of something with suet in it.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] So I had to use my license to get the Zyrtec D, and then you had to use your license to get the Aleve D. Yeah, and can only.

[1078] You can only buy that one time per month.

[1079] It's so exclusive.

[1080] One time per month.

[1081] You know what they used to call that?

[1082] The cookers of meth would send in a cadre of people to buy up all the Sudafed before it was you had to show your license.

[1083] And they called that Smurfing.

[1084] Really?

[1085] Yes, so I felt like you and I were smurfing.

[1086] There it is.

[1087] There it is.

[1088] Did you hear that?

[1089] Raleigh.

[1090] Oh, boy.

[1091] We're getting interrupted by four beautiful girls.

[1092] Delta.

[1093] Say hi.

[1094] Hi.

[1095] What's your name?

[1096] Delta.

[1097] Oh, who gave you that name?

[1098] Daddy.

[1099] Say hi.

[1100] Hi.

[1101] I say I love you.

[1102] I love you.

[1103] Okay, go play on the beach.

[1104] That was a fun interruption.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] I got interrupted by the babies.

[1107] What are we talking about?

[1108] Sudafed.

[1109] Oh, yes, yes.

[1110] Smurfing, sooties, Cassies.

[1111] What have they made you show your license at Cassies?

[1112] They showed.

[1113] Yeah, because the CDC or something had determined that you would die if you had like 600 Cassie's in a month.

[1114] Cassie's is White Castle as we've established.

[1115] Yeah, yeah.

[1116] And Chrissies is crystals.

[1117] I was panicking a little bit because I actually think that I bought the Zyrtec.

[1118] And in my head a few days in, I was like, I'm going to need more of that because we were all sharing.

[1119] Yep, yep.

[1120] And I was starting to panic because I was like, oh, no, I took.

[1121] I can't get it for a month.

[1122] Welcome to drug addiction.

[1123] Welcome to addiction.

[1124] I don't like that.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] The panic.

[1127] I was panic.

[1128] Longing.

[1129] Also, today is Aaron Weekly's birthday.

[1130] We're celebrating a big day here at the beach.

[1131] Yeah, we are.

[1132] J2C.

[1133] J2C, a very exclusive club.

[1134] I know.

[1135] To my knowledge, there's only two people in it.

[1136] Aaron and I. I'm going to say there's more people in it.

[1137] I'm January 2nd, Capricorn.

[1138] Yep.

[1139] J2C.

[1140] And then Weekly's July 2nd, Cancer.

[1141] A J2C.

[1142] I wonder if the folks born in July are pissed that their sign is cancer.

[1143] It's a bad word.

[1144] Yeah.

[1145] Or do you think they feel like they might get jinxed?

[1146] Yes.

[1147] And also like, what if you were born in November and your sign was herpes?

[1148] Yeah, you wouldn't want to.

[1149] No, no one would want to be a herpy.

[1150] No, no, thank you.

[1151] Although mine is Virgo.

[1152] Which is Latin for papilloma virus.

[1153] No, for Virgin.

[1154] Oh, for Virgin.

[1155] I think.

[1156] Yeah, that's not entirely.

[1157] That's not bad, but it's not fun for your whole life.

[1158] Well, right.

[1159] You know, sex is fun and so are herpes.

[1160] That's true.

[1161] At least the Virgoes are not getting herpes.

[1162] No, but what if, you know how they say in astrology certain signs are matches?

[1163] So what if the burgos and the herpes are a perfect match?

[1164] Yeah, that'd be ironic.

[1165] It's probably true.

[1166] That's the way the world works.

[1167] The world's got a six sense of human.

[1168] Who are we talking about?

[1169] Jennifer Newsom.

[1170] Jennifer was a delight.

[1171] Absolutely a delight.

[1172] Yeah, and so smart and interesting and thoughtful about the world.

[1173] An overachiever, to say the least.

[1174] Yeah.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] I felt a little bit bad about myself.

[1177] Yes, by comparison, we felt undereducated.

[1178] Yeah, Stanford.

[1179] You know, Stanford used to be my dream school.

[1180] Oh, it was.

[1181] When I was six and I didn't really know what was going on.

[1182] You know what's so weird.

[1183] I'd never fetish -sized colleges growing up, but the one I thought I would want to go to was Stanford.

[1184] Really?

[1185] Yeah, because just my perception of it was Ivy League, but super loosey -goosey, like very progressive and not like Harvard wearing sweater vests and coats.

[1186] Well, probably because it's West Coast.

[1187] West Coast is the best coast.

[1188] West Coast, best coast.

[1189] East Coast.

[1190] Meast coast.

[1191] Meat coast.

[1192] The meat coast.

[1193] No. I mean, I didn't know what it meant.

[1194] didn't know Harvard was on the East Coast and wore sweater vest.

[1195] I just heard that name.

[1196] My grandfather probably said, I hope you go there.

[1197] And then I decided I wanted to go there.

[1198] Yeah, my second stepdad, I believe, liked Stanford.

[1199] And he at that point was maybe the smartest person I knew.

[1200] So maybe that's all that was happening to you.

[1201] You know, that guy, what's so interesting about that guy who shall remain nameless is, you know, he raced motorcycles and cars and was an engineer.

[1202] And very smart.

[1203] I love physical fitness, but a terrible know -it -all.

[1204] And I hated him.

[1205] And I think I might have accidentally become him.

[1206] Well, you took the good parts.

[1207] Yeah, yeah.

[1208] I do credit him for teaching me how to think differently.

[1209] I've said that I'm here before.

[1210] I think it's good to be able to take lemons and make lemonade.

[1211] Uh -huh.

[1212] Take stinky old rotten lemons and make some.

[1213] I've also grown much more sympathetic to his experience because the last thing in the world I would want is to be the stepdad of five kids.

[1214] I mean, two of them were his, but three were us.

[1215] Right.

[1216] That's a lot.

[1217] Yeah, it's a lot of us.

[1218] He chose that.

[1219] He did, but it's hard because you're not the parent.

[1220] You can't talk to me the way I talk to Lincoln or Delta.

[1221] She haven't earned that right.

[1222] Yeah.

[1223] So I'm like, excuse me, dude, we've known for 18 months.

[1224] I think I'll decide, you know, my brother was a fucking teenager.

[1225] My brother was like, no thanks, pal.

[1226] That would be really.

[1227] hard.

[1228] That's a hard pass for me. I have a lot of respect for people who are good step parents.

[1229] I think it's a lot harder.

[1230] She also don't have that genetic thing where it's like you're extra tolerant of their annoyance.

[1231] If I go to a restaurant and I hear kids acting exactly how my kids act, it drives me bonkers.

[1232] But when it's my kids, it doesn't bother me as much because I have a genetic.

[1233] It's the limits of empathy, you know.

[1234] Yeah, but I think it also has to do with time spent around.

[1235] I guess if it's only 18 months, it's not enough time.

[1236] No, it's not.

[1237] It's not.

[1238] But like Carly and Barton, of course, he was there very early.

[1239] Right.

[1240] And he put in the time and he took her to baseball practice.

[1241] He's her dad.

[1242] That's right.

[1243] And he's her dad.

[1244] Yeah.

[1245] That's right.

[1246] It can be learned.

[1247] It can develop.

[1248] It can be learned and turned.

[1249] So just now, I interrupted.

[1250] You were about to do a Hawaiian voice song.

[1251] A song.

[1252] Yeah.

[1253] And before we started this, you asked me to do it and I didn't do it.

[1254] Uh -huh.

[1255] You want to do it.

[1256] Yeah.

[1257] But you feel like you're going to offend Hawaiian speakers?

[1258] No. It has nothing to do with that.

[1259] Okay.

[1260] It's just when someone's asking me to do something like that, I don't want to do it.

[1261] Because there's no winning that.

[1262] Bologna.

[1263] No, there is.

[1264] Bologna.

[1265] Hold on.

[1266] Wrong.

[1267] You doing a Hawaii song right now would make me so happy.

[1268] It would be a big win.

[1269] If I did it on my own, not you asking me to do it and then me repeating what you just did.

[1270] It's not a win.

[1271] And sometimes you do ask me to do things like that and I never do it.

[1272] it.

[1273] And then I always feel like you think I'm not fun.

[1274] Well, let me ask you a question.

[1275] How do you know it's not a win if you've never done it?

[1276] That's my question.

[1277] Because I'll say to Aaron, do your thing.

[1278] And he does it.

[1279] And then everyone laughs.

[1280] And then Ryan do your, oh, boy, we.

[1281] Right.

[1282] And then that's a big win.

[1283] And then people ask me to do stuff.

[1284] Yeah, that's completely different.

[1285] If you're asking me to do something that I do.

[1286] No, half the joy is try that.

[1287] How do you think we get all these things?

[1288] It's like we're all trying him for the first time.

[1289] The hop on a honey was Ryan singing it out loud.

[1290] And then I was like, oh, I'm going to give that a shot.

[1291] Yeah, I know.

[1292] But it was organic to you.

[1293] Organically, you decided, I want to try it.

[1294] And then you did.

[1295] He wasn't like, Dax, do that.

[1296] And then you did it.

[1297] Because then look, to be honest, if he did that right after he just did it and he was super funny.

[1298] I'd try it in a second.

[1299] Okay.

[1300] Well, I'm glad that you would.

[1301] I think there's something even deeper, the pure pressure trigger.

[1302] It's deeper than this conversation.

[1303] Then what?

[1304] What do you mean?

[1305] Well, the fact that it's been a longstanding thing you've had where you do not adhere to peer pressure and in cheer camp, you didn't do it.

[1306] And you now realize that maybe something of fun happened in that room, right?

[1307] Yeah.

[1308] I don't actually regret that.

[1309] I know you don't, but you have come around to think like, oh, maybe it would have been fun.

[1310] Well, I've done things that I felt peer pressure to do that I was super not happy that I did it.

[1311] Oh, really?

[1312] Well, that's what I'm wondering.

[1313] Did you have a very bad experience where you came to peer pressure and you go never again, never forget, never forgive?

[1314] I mean, one time, this is so stupid.

[1315] One time I was at a water park with my friend and there was a ride I did not want to do.

[1316] Okay.

[1317] And it was a big slide that then dumped you into this whirlpool of water and you get spun around, whatever.

[1318] And I did not want to do it.

[1319] that looked very scary and like something I was not going to enjoy.

[1320] But then I did it because I felt like I wouldn't be fun if I didn't do it.

[1321] So then I did it.

[1322] And I hated it.

[1323] You hated it.

[1324] I was so scared and I was basically drowning.

[1325] Yeah.

[1326] So that's a pretty profound experience.

[1327] That's very profound.

[1328] Yeah.

[1329] And I had to act like I liked it.

[1330] Uh -huh.

[1331] Yeah.

[1332] So you were kind of also then fraudulent.

[1333] Yeah.

[1334] Do you think it could potentially be a step in the right direction to try it?

[1335] No. Really?

[1336] All right.

[1337] Moving on.

[1338] Okay.

[1339] Moving on.

[1340] Jennifer.

[1341] Okay.

[1342] So the rate of divorce after a child dies.

[1343] The compassionate friends, an organization that supports bereaved parents conducted a study in 2006 showing that the divorce rate among couples that suffered the loss of a child is about 16%.

[1344] Oh, that's low.

[1345] Yeah.

[1346] That's low as hell.

[1347] But it's lower than the national average.

[1348] Mm -hmm.

[1349] But on another site I was looking at, it said, in light of the significance of child death as traumatic experience for parents, research on parental bereavement is more limited than might be expected.

[1350] Most studies have been clinical descriptions of participants in grief support groups, example, compassionate friends.

[1351] So it is specific to think about that.

[1352] I would argue if you're the type of person that found your way to a support group, you're the type person that's probably going to also find your way to some marriage counseling and other things.

[1353] You work hard at it.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] That's what it's saying.

[1357] So the findings likely have been influenced both by self -selection factors that led individuals to seek this type of help and by the participants' experience in the support groups.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] I know the rate for parents with autistic kids is like two -thirds of them get to force.

[1360] It's crazy.

[1361] Yeah.

[1362] Very hard.

[1363] Very hard to stay together with that level of stress.

[1364] Yeah.

[1365] I get it.

[1366] If every, Everything's going smoothly.

[1367] There's not enough time for each other.

[1368] Then you add in something that is upping the resources and time.

[1369] Mm -hmm.

[1370] And it's coming from somewhere.

[1371] It feels counterintuitive because it should be that you would want to partner in handling something like that.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] But it just doesn't pan out like that.

[1374] I hope not to offend anyone who has an autistic kid that I'm presuming to understand something that I don't.

[1375] But I would imagine a big source of the anxiety is what should we?

[1376] do what works best and it's so unknown and it's it's not a science so now you have two opinions constantly on something that is really really hard to figure out and track is it the diet if do we do this is that help you know yeah well i did i didn't let him have the yellow pan and he was fine you know like all that stuff yeah i think it's just fertile ground for a lot of anxiety and more opinions and not a lot of confidence and yeah yeah and blame i think there's a lot of yeah yeah happens.

[1377] Sure.

[1378] Okay, the front -line documentary that you watched about the Native American doctor, that's called Predator on the Reservation, Season 37, Episode 7.

[1379] Really on the nose.

[1380] Predator on the reservation.

[1381] That really sums it up, doesn't it?

[1382] When I Googled, I felt pretty confident that was the right one.

[1383] Unless there was like a large Savannah cat in the reservation, like a lion or a leopard.

[1384] Made its way through the reservation.

[1385] Anything shy of that, you're going strong.

[1386] straight to pedophile.

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] Oh, I was thinking about this when I was listening.

[1389] So you were saying that part of this need for boys to feel like they need to be tough and strong and all of these things.

[1390] Women are part of the issue.

[1391] Girls are part of the issue because girls like guys.

[1392] Right.

[1393] Yeah.

[1394] And it's definitely true that this is an everyone issue.

[1395] But I think it's even deeper than that.

[1396] I think it's that girls in high school, we're talking about like high school age or middle school age or whatever, girls in high school want to be popular.

[1397] And so the way to do that is to be with the popular guy.

[1398] Yep.

[1399] Absorbing their status.

[1400] Mm -hmm.

[1401] So it's all a weird cycle because they're picking the popular guy so that they can be popular.

[1402] But it looks like they're picking the tough guy.

[1403] Sure.

[1404] The football star.

[1405] Yes.

[1406] But really, they might not be picking that person because they like those things.

[1407] They like that that person has status.

[1408] So this is, yeah.

[1409] And then it's just an endless cycle because it's like, why is the guy popular?

[1410] Or the guy's also popular because he's getting the cutest girl in school.

[1411] Yes, but the cutest girl probably just likes him because he's popular because of the, yeah, it's a whole problem.

[1412] But I will say, as we acknowledge on here a lot, we are a very fluid mix of our biology and our culture.

[1413] and then even those two things overlap in a way that you can't separate.

[1414] But just look at birds.

[1415] Why are male birds prettier than female birds?

[1416] The real reason, evolutionarily, is that a bird with a very loud expressive pattern attracts more attention from prey.

[1417] So the weird message being sent and they do this loud dance and they call and they're bringing so much attention to themselves from potential.

[1418] prey that the message being received by the female bird is they are abnormally physically fit incompetent so they're a great match to have offspring with because that child will be strong and fit yeah so knowing that that's what's happening with birds biologically i do think there is a biological thing that's responding to anything that is strong and fit for reproduction because it mean survival.

[1419] It has meant survival for most of our time on Earth.

[1420] I know.

[1421] I just think we're evolving out.

[1422] We're transcending that, but I'm saying you can't delete the 100 ,000 years here where your physical fitness did drastically impact the outcome of your life.

[1423] Yeah, we shouldn't delete it, but we should also be cognizant.

[1424] But not even fight against it, be cognizant of the reality of today, which is that's not true, that physical prowess doesn't eat.

[1425] equal anything anymore.

[1426] It doesn't.

[1427] You're right.

[1428] That's where culture's like battling the genetics, I think.

[1429] And now you want to get a guy who's a genius computer programmer.

[1430] That also seems like a terrible message.

[1431] Like it seems like a terrible message to send like you should be big and strong.

[1432] That's a bad message.

[1433] Also that you should be a genius because people are just born smart.

[1434] You can't aspire to it.

[1435] I don't think you should be a genius, but you should be utilizing your personal skill to the max.

[1436] Like, a lot of entrepreneurs don't have like an insane IQ.

[1437] They just have business savvy or some sort of creative.

[1438] So I think it's just know what you're good at and then just double down on it.

[1439] Yeah.

[1440] So you said that there's crazy data.

[1441] If a kid sits in a diaper, if a kid's diapers only changed once a day, they're going to be eight IQ points lower.

[1442] And I did not find that statistic.

[1443] That's a foundation that Kristen works with.

[1444] Yeah, I think eight is not accurate.

[1445] Wasn't I guessing?

[1446] I don't know the amount of points.

[1447] So there's one study.

[1448] They examined IQ reading math and neurocognitive domains of fine motor skills, language, visual, spatial, memory learning, and attention executive functions in two groups of non -sexualed abused, medically healthy, neglected children, one with DSM, post -traumatic stress disorder, and one without, and a demographically similar, healthy, non -maltreated control group.

[1449] Significantly lower IQ reading math and selected differences in complex visual attention, visual memory, language, verbal memory, and learning, planning, problem solving, and speeded naming were seen in neglect groups.

[1450] So definitely.

[1451] I didn't have any points, but it's for sure, of course, real.

[1452] An Australian study of 3 ,796 14 -year -olds found that those who had been reported as having suffered abuse or neglect scored the.

[1453] the equivalent of some three IQ points lower than those who had not been maltreated.

[1454] But there was an article I read also about saggy diapers, soggy saggies.

[1455] Okay, soggy saggies.

[1456] That it can affect their motor skills because it affects the way they learn to walk.

[1457] Oh, like if they've got a poop in their pants.

[1458] Yeah, they're like walking around with chafed buns.

[1459] Yeah, with wet butt cut.

[1460] Wet butt cuts.

[1461] From Cedar Point.

[1462] Those kids are just hanging out at Cedar Point too much.

[1463] There should be a study on all of us who went to Cedar Point so much and got these wet butt cuts.

[1464] I bet our, yes, I bet I should be smarter.

[1465] Lower.

[1466] Well, certainly.

[1467] Should you tell people what that is?

[1468] I don't think they know.

[1469] Okay, so Cedar Point, the amusement park we went to as a kid in Sandusky, Ohio.

[1470] And of course, Aaron Weekly went a ton as a kid.

[1471] your butt would sweat so bad as you walked around this park.

[1472] It's a huge park and you're running from ride to ride and your butt is sweating profusely.

[1473] So you would go into the bathroom and you would put paper towel between your butt cheeks.

[1474] Like no parents were advising this.

[1475] Just kids figured this out on their own.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] I've asked many people who went to Cedar Point a lot as a kid and at least among the males, very common for them.

[1478] I think Carly was saying she tried it though too.

[1479] Maybe, yeah.

[1480] And though throughout the day the wetness in there, at some point just create a cut out of nowhere and then now you're dealing with a very stingy cut and then you're back in the bathroom the toilet paper does not work because it's thinner than a micron and it just turns to paper mache in your buns so you got to go with the very coarse brown paper towel which also might create the cut the wet butt cut oh so it's a chicken or the egg it's inclusive yeah whether it's the rough coarse paper towel or friction and sweat that creates the cut but the cut is almost universal everyone gets a wet butt cut.

[1481] Yeah, not me. I've never experienced that, but I've never been to Cedar Point, but I have been to six flags and spent all day.

[1482] Flying over Georgia?

[1483] Six flags over Georgia.

[1484] Six flags over Georgia.

[1485] But we gave a lot of thought to that.

[1486] One theory, of course, was that you sweat less than us in the butt for whatever reason.

[1487] Genetics.

[1488] And then another one is that you didn't have enough butt cheek to create the friction.

[1489] I think that's probably inaccurate.

[1490] Yeah.

[1491] I can't all have big butts.

[1492] Well, we can if we stay here long.

[1493] No. I have a max.

[1494] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, unless you did steroids or something.

[1495] Unless I did steroid, but steroids.

[1496] Broids.

[1497] So she said that her friends, E. Kaiser said that the largest group of suicide deaths currently is young girls ages 19 to 25.

[1498] She said that she was most likely going to get that statistic wrong.

[1499] Uh -huh.

[1500] So she did preface that.

[1501] I don't think that's true.

[1502] Okay.

[1503] But then I did read in Time magazine.

[1504] This was this year or last year.

[1505] For decades, U .S. boys have died by suicide far more frequently than girls, even though girls' attempt suicide and report contemplating it more often.

[1506] In the suicide prevention world, the phenomenon is known as the gender paradox.

[1507] The paradox still persists today, but new data published in JAMA Network Open, this is Time Magazine, so I believe it.

[1508] We believe it.

[1509] Suggests the gap between male and female youth suicide deaths is narrowing.

[1510] What we're seeing is alarming.

[1511] On top of the fact that females are thinking about suicide more and attempting suicide more, now they're actually completing suicide.

[1512] U .S. suicide rates are rising across age groups and demographics and youth are no exception, but the uptick hasn't been equal across genders.

[1513] Starting in 2007, suicide rates for girls ages 10 to 14 began increasing annually by about 13 percent compared to about 7 percent for boys.

[1514] For teens, ages 15 to 19, rates among girls and boys increase by about 8 percent and 3 .5 percent respectively.

[1515] So maybe that's what she was talking about, is it's getting much worse for the girls.

[1516] Yeah, it's growing at a double the rate or something.

[1517] Yeah.

[1518] I know.

[1519] You know, and of course, in junior high and high school, we knew the kids that had tried to kill themselves.

[1520] And then they were generally girls who had tried.

[1521] Yeah.

[1522] And then there were a couple boys who did.

[1523] Yeah.

[1524] It's so horrible.

[1525] It is.

[1526] Your little brain's not even done.

[1527] I know.

[1528] I know.

[1529] Also, I learned in an anthro class, it's also contagious.

[1530] There's like some really crazy phenomenon that happened in.

[1531] Tahiti, I believe, where someone really famous killed themselves and then they saw this explosion of suicides afterwards.

[1532] It's very interesting.

[1533] I've heard that too.

[1534] Yeah.

[1535] That's why it's like there's movements to not publicize it in the media because it does have a contagious effect.

[1536] I think just, I mean, obviously psychologically you're not well if you're contemplating suicide.

[1537] So maybe when you see that, maybe it just feels like this person did it and they were much happier than me. So I should probably go ahead.

[1538] It's very interesting.

[1539] Don't do that.

[1540] Don't do that.

[1541] Teenage suicide, don't do it.

[1542] That was in others.

[1543] Oh, I never saw it.

[1544] But again, I bet I would love to find out maybe we'll do a next fact check.

[1545] I would love to find out if Heather's was so popular and the whole movie was about suicide.

[1546] I wonder if there was an uptick that year.

[1547] We should look.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] Okay.

[1550] So you said you're powerless over the four by six thing in your hand.

[1551] I'm making my world.

[1552] Yeah, four by six.

[1553] Yeah.

[1554] It's just not.

[1555] It's not 4 by 6.

[1556] Yeah.

[1557] Great.

[1558] What is it?

[1559] Well, the Galaxy 10 is 6 .2 by 2 .92.

[1560] Okay.

[1561] All right.

[1562] And mine, iPhone 7, is 5 .44 by 2 .6.

[1563] Okay.

[1564] It's even smaller than I thought is the point.

[1565] So it's even worse.

[1566] I was complaining about making my focus a tiny little dot on planet Earth instead of the planet Earth.

[1567] around me. I know.

[1568] But you know what?

[1569] We haven't done that on this trip, which has been lovely.

[1570] Yeah.

[1571] Because thank goodness we have no service.

[1572] I really recommend that people vacation somewhere where there's no service.

[1573] For real.

[1574] It is so nice.

[1575] Oh, I've loved it.

[1576] But the reason I knew that had to be wrong when you said it is because there's a four by six picture.

[1577] Yeah.

[1578] And I'm very familiar with that size.

[1579] I used to do a lot of framing.

[1580] Right.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] Well, you love.

[1583] Framebridge.

[1584] I love Framebridge.

[1585] I love Framebridge.

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] I love Framebridge.

[1588] I'll sponsor them for free.

[1589] I really You love Frambridge, and yeah.

[1590] So you're very hip to a four by six.

[1591] I know about a four by six.

[1592] And I can picture it as well.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] Yeah, you're right.

[1595] This is more rectangle than boxy like a four by six.

[1596] Yeah.

[1597] And that's all.

[1598] All right.

[1599] Great.

[1600] I love you.

[1601] Love you.

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