Armchair Anonymous: Bully

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[3] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.

[4] I'm Dan Shepard.

[5] I'm joined by Lily Padman.

[6] Hello.

[7] Oh, boy.

[8] Still reeling from the accidental orgasms episode.

[9] Well, that one was very precious.

[10] Mm -hmm.

[11] That boy in the rope, man. I'm going to never stop thinking about them.

[12] Today we have something a little less, well, sexual in nature, yeah.

[13] I'm precious.

[14] Definitely not sexual.

[15] Although, well, yeah.

[16] Did one turn sexual?

[17] I'm just trying to.

[18] No, but there was one about a relationship.

[19] I was really moved by that one when we heard it and people will hear it.

[20] And when I was editing it, I, again, really felt so strongly about.

[21] that story.

[22] And I asked for that person's email.

[23] And I'm going to send her an email just reiterating how awesome that is.

[24] Mm -hmm.

[25] All right.

[26] Please enjoy times that people stood up to a bully.

[27] All times.

[28] Come and go.

[29] Take them slow.

[30] You got to know.

[31] I'm going.

[32] Stephen, can you hear us?

[33] Yeah, I can hear you guys.

[34] How's it going?

[35] Wonderful.

[36] You just joined a conversation with Monica and I, where she was saying she could not ever become addicted to Trank.

[37] I don't know if you've heard of Trank.

[38] Have you heard of this?

[39] I mean, does it have anything to do with tranquilizer?

[40] Yeah, it's like this new drug that's replacing the opioid epidemic.

[41] Yeah, it's really sad.

[42] It's a tranquilizer, and people have to get amputations, and it's now getting epidemic.

[43] But anyway, she said she would never be addicted to it.

[44] And then after 30 minutes of arguing, right when you signed on, she goes, maybe I should try it.

[45] We should like Uber eat some Trank over and I'll try it on this podcast right now.

[46] Stephen, where are you?

[47] I'm in Toronto.

[48] Oh, wonderful.

[49] And are you a Canadian by birth?

[50] I was born in Toronto, live in a suburb outside of Toronto now.

[51] The story takes place in a suburb outside Toronto.

[52] Yeah.

[53] I just want to say, for the record, I have a few different friends that are from Ontario.

[54] And when I compare their rural childhood to mine, it's pretty damn similar, I got to say.

[55] I feel like this is probably going to be different than yours, but might have the same type of vibe.

[56] Okay, okay, okay.

[57] I think I can relate to the pressures that were surrounding place.

[58] playgrounds in these areas.

[59] Yeah, the story definitely takes place on the playground.

[60] Oh, yes.

[61] Oh, well, set the scene for us.

[62] It's 2007, I think.

[63] I was in eighth grade.

[64] So it was a suburb outside Toronto.

[65] It wasn't a rough suburb.

[66] There wasn't heavy bullying in the school.

[67] It wasn't very clicky.

[68] So the story isn't like buzz from home alone.

[69] Bullying kids.

[70] Okay.

[71] Great reference.

[72] I hate Buzz.

[73] I hated Buzz as a kid.

[74] I love buses and adults.

[75] Oh, he's the worst.

[76] Okay, go on.

[77] Okay, so this day, I was like maybe a month away from graduating elementary school.

[78] School's over.

[79] I walk home from the north side of the school.

[80] So it's like a 10 -minute walk home.

[81] But that day, my best friend stayed home sick from school.

[82] So I had to walk to his house to give him like a form to sign because we have track and field day coming up.

[83] So I go through the south end of the school, go to his house, five -minute walk, coming on my way back through a little alleyway to get back into like the school property.

[84] I'm walking through the alleyway.

[85] And as I go through, there's like a bunch of kids crowded by the playground.

[86] I hear a bunch of yelling.

[87] I'm hearing one kid being like, I'm going to fucking kill you.

[88] I'm hearing a girl being like, stop, stop.

[89] I'm seeing five or six kids crowded around like all freaking out.

[90] So like a little context, I was in eighth grade.

[91] All these kids were in seventh grade.

[92] I wasn't the kid being bullied.

[93] I wasn't the bully.

[94] I was the class president.

[95] I was generally well respected in school.

[96] And all these kids were in my little brother.

[97] grade, he was in seventh grade.

[98] So I knew all the kids that were in this situation.

[99] So he wasn't your traditional bully, but he was just an asshole that people didn't like.

[100] Sure, sure.

[101] As I get closer, I notice it's this kid yelling at a girl telling him that he's in a killer.

[102] Oh, there's like three or four kids crowded around.

[103] They're all telling him to stop.

[104] And I'm like, why is nobody handling this situation?

[105] So I'm at this time probably like five, five, 110 pounds.

[106] Like, I was the skinniest kid in school.

[107] And this kid was, I don't know, a couple inches taller, but, like, probably had 40 or 50 pounds on me. Okay.

[108] Is the Dach Shepherd in your seventh grade?

[109] Yes.

[110] So I stepped right in front of him.

[111] And I go, go the fuck home.

[112] What are we doing here?

[113] So I just yell at him.

[114] He raises his arm up and just strikes me in the chest.

[115] Oh, well, luckily in the chest.

[116] But he stabbed me in the chest.

[117] Wait.

[118] So he had a math compass.

[119] What?

[120] Oh, my God, with a needle on the end.

[121] Yeah, with a needle on the end.

[122] I had no idea what was going on at first.

[123] This stuff doesn't happen in our school.

[124] So I'm not scared about a situation where kids are yelling.

[125] I'm not scared of whatever's happening.

[126] And I have absolutely no problem growing up, just like standing up to people that are bigger than me, whatever.

[127] I had no issues in fear in that sense.

[128] And the kid just stabs me in the chest with a compass.

[129] Oh, my God.

[130] Did you recognize that right away?

[131] It took me a second.

[132] So his eyes immediately, like, get big.

[133] What have I done?

[134] And I think probably fear because my eyes, got big with rage.

[135] I felt a little bit of pain and the kid drops what's in his hand.

[136] I don't know what's a compass at this point and just takes off running.

[137] So I look down and I see it's a compass and I pick it up and I start chasing after the kid.

[138] Oh, no. Are you bleeding?

[139] I'm bleeding, but I didn't realize I was bleeding yet.

[140] So I start chasing after him.

[141] I quickly realized, I'm like, no, I can't stab this kid back with a compass so I whip it into the field.

[142] I keep chasing after him.

[143] I catch up to him after, I don't know, 10, 15 seconds and I tackle him to the ground.

[144] Right on the pavement.

[145] And in my aggression and anger, I gave him two elbows to the head.

[146] Okay, UFC style.

[147] I wasn't an aggressive kid in school.

[148] I don't know if you guys ever watched the newsroom with Jeff Daniels.

[149] Oh, love newsroom.

[150] You know how he says he's on a mission to civilize?

[151] I kind of feel like I was like that.

[152] You were the sheriff.

[153] You want to be like the good asshole, not the bad asshole.

[154] Oh, that Stacks his whole.

[155] Well, it's Monica and I are sheriffs of all security.

[156] We are.

[157] We are.

[158] Righteous indignation is powerful.

[159] You take it physical and I take it verbal.

[160] That's right.

[161] Flash emotional sabotage, but yes.

[162] No, not sabotage.

[163] In hindsight, I probably could have handled it better, but I'm in eighth grade and a kid stab me with a compass.

[164] Yeah.

[165] So what's the fallout from all this?

[166] So he starts running away.

[167] I get up and I notice blood streaking down my chest.

[168] It's not like a heavy stream of blood, but like it's bleeding through my white shirt.

[169] All the kids start coming up to me. Oh my God.

[170] Stephen, thank you so much.

[171] Oh, yeah.

[172] Hero.

[173] Hero time.

[174] Right?

[175] I can't believe this.

[176] Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do...

[177] What's that from?

[178] Rocky.

[179] Oh, do, do, do.

[180] Part of me was like, why didn't anyone stop this?

[181] Oh, yeah, here we are, though.

[182] This is great.

[183] Yeah, then I get to have my little, I guess, hero moment.

[184] Adrenalins running through me. I feel like a superhero.

[185] I walk home.

[186] I come from a Greek immigrant family.

[187] They're, like, rub some dirt on it.

[188] We're not going to the hospital.

[189] None of that stuff, right?

[190] It's not bleeding.

[191] Whatever, I tell my mom.

[192] Everybody knows.

[193] We get to school the next day.

[194] We get called down to the principal's office.

[195] My mom's there.

[196] His mom is there.

[197] Now, we're both there.

[198] And our moms are getting in a fight about this.

[199] The principal's asking if we want to press charges.

[200] His mother's saying, a cat could have done it.

[201] That's absolutely nothing.

[202] My mom's yelling at her and her son.

[203] An absolute mess.

[204] Oh, wow.

[205] How exciting.

[206] It was very exciting for me in eighth grade because this didn't happen in our school.

[207] Drama didn't exist.

[208] Yeah.

[209] There were no charges pressed.

[210] The kid got suspended a week.

[211] Okay.

[212] For attempted murder that week.

[213] I was told to stay home for a day and they were going to say it was a suspension to him and his mom, but it wasn't actually a suspension.

[214] So it was like a pseudo suspension.

[215] Oh.

[216] On his record, it wouldn't say that.

[217] Oh, right.

[218] Yeah, this is part of the hero's welcome.

[219] Sure.

[220] The brass is bending rules for you.

[221] On the record, it's funny because when you're in elementary school, you get told if you're suspended, you're never going to get a, job anywhere, but like it doesn't really matter.

[222] It's on your permanent record.

[223] The amount of times they use the term permanent record when you're in elementary school.

[224] They put me on final notice and then I exceeded that like whatever thing.

[225] And then they were like, you're on double final notice.

[226] They kept inventing in my junior high.

[227] God bless him, I think, because he liked me, Bart Montani.

[228] But man, by the time I got on eighth grade, I was on like triple final notice.

[229] Totally invented.

[230] Yeah.

[231] The irony is that he was then the kid that was bullied because of this incident, Which, like, I feel bad about now.

[232] I didn't feel bad about them.

[233] Yes, of course, not then.

[234] My brother was in seventh grade.

[235] So all the seventh graders who were friends with me and my brother started bullying this kid a little bit.

[236] The two incidents I remember was him getting pantsed in school.

[237] Oh, no. Oh, boy.

[238] I hope he had a big penis because he was so tall.

[239] I hope that was a win for him.

[240] A bottle of piss was thrown out of him.

[241] Oh, no. Yeah, welcome to Canada.

[242] Yeah, welcome to Canada.

[243] This is what I'm talking about.

[244] Were bottles of piss getting whipped around in your school?

[245] I wouldn't have been involved even if it was.

[246] It's probably going out right under your nose.

[247] It was a South.

[248] I don't have a feeling.

[249] Oh, man. I feel sad for him.

[250] Well, you know what happens when you get older is you realize kids who bully are being probably very severely bullied at home.

[251] And then you go, oh, fuck, they were victims.

[252] They made other victims.

[253] Now they got triple victim, triple final notice.

[254] He must have had stuff going on, which is why he was an asshole in school.

[255] willing to stab somebody yeah that's pretty extreme yeah in couples retreat where Vince Vaughn talks about how he survived a shark attack this is me saying I survived a stabbing it's like not really surviving a stabbing it was a math compass that probably went in half an inch and caused some blood you could have got tetanus could have got locked John died yeah I'm lucky I didn't well Stephen I'm glad you made it that was a harrowing story you'd already seen some shit by the time we got to high school saved a young woman's life and stabbed attacks somebody i felt like batman who was great well it's great meeting you stephen thanks for telling us that story it was great meeting you as well bye all right here's ashley oh god i want to hear a woman stand up to a bully what if she is talking about getting bullied i didn't think this one through very much what these could all be heartbreaking oh they will be yeah but some of them was kind of good but it wasn't because it was also sad hello hi ashley where are you i'm in bellingham washington oh Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.

[256] Is it gray and gloomy there as well?

[257] It's a little known secret, but it's actually really beautiful in Bellingham.

[258] It's in a little bit of a rain shadow.

[259] So it's been in like the upper 70s for the last couple weeks, which is actually pretty rare.

[260] We can't get out of the 60s over here.

[261] It's summertime.

[262] And it's so gloomy.

[263] So Ashley, you stood up to a bully, which is very exciting.

[264] I cannot wait to hear when and where this took place.

[265] Yeah.

[266] So it happened when I was about 20.

[267] six years old.

[268] Okay, full grown woman.

[269] Yeah, full grown woman, but I was probably only like 125 pounds.

[270] I was driving and I was pulled up at a stoplight on a four lane road.

[271] So two in opposite directions.

[272] Really quick.

[273] Is there a median separating the four lanes or no?

[274] No median, but it's busy traffic.

[275] It was right next to a Barnes & Noble randomly.

[276] Heavy traffic area.

[277] Prime time real estate.

[278] Yeah, but I looked over at a bus stop and this guy and gal we're sitting there, and this guy just punched the shit out of this woman, just, oh, bam, right in the face, knocked her down, like she was taken out.

[279] Oh, my God.

[280] And he took something from her hand.

[281] Oh, oh, oh, can you really quickly describe at least?

[282] What were the ages of these two?

[283] I would guess that I probably in their late 20s, early 30s.

[284] Okay.

[285] They were also adults like you.

[286] Yeah.

[287] She was down on the ground, and he was just back to normal.

[288] And then my light turned green.

[289] Oh, my gosh.

[290] So I'm looking and I'm watching for somebody to pull over because they were at a bus stop.

[291] There was room to pull over over there.

[292] And nobody was stopping.

[293] So I was going through my light, just watching in the rearview mirror.

[294] Nobody was doing anything.

[295] So like my heart started pounding.

[296] I was like, I can't deal with this.

[297] Yeah.

[298] So I flipped around.

[299] And I should say I was in like a white Subaru with a ton of stickers on it.

[300] So it was a pretty identifiable car.

[301] Okay.

[302] What kind of like, what were you?

[303] Like Lisa Frank.

[304] Yeah.

[305] Where I've been.

[306] What kind of beer I drink?

[307] Oh, wonderful.

[308] I'm getting the vibe.

[309] Okay, great.

[310] So I flip around.

[311] I see them.

[312] I get stopped at the light coming the opposite way and I see them across the street and go to the Barnes and Noble parking lot.

[313] And now I'm just like, oh my God, do I say something?

[314] Do I not say something?

[315] What do you do in the situation?

[316] They stay together?

[317] Is that what I just said?

[318] Yeah.

[319] She's back up and they're walking together.

[320] Okay.

[321] They're ready.

[322] Yeah.

[323] Finally, I was like, I'm doing this.

[324] I'm not stopping.

[325] Nobody's turning around.

[326] Like, this is not right.

[327] So I dialed 9 -1 -1 on my cell phone, and I didn't actually hit send.

[328] I just had it.

[329] Okay, right.

[330] Locked and loaded.

[331] I locked on my doors and rolled down the passenger window and found them in the parking lot.

[332] Looked at them, and they looked at me a little surprise.

[333] I was like, hey, hey, I saw him hit you.

[334] That was not right.

[335] This is not okay.

[336] You don't deserve this.

[337] Oh, wonderful.

[338] Good for you.

[339] And I'm just like, what do you need?

[340] Can I give you a ride?

[341] Let's get you out of here.

[342] This is incredible.

[343] Yes, you're a hero.

[344] You are a hero.

[345] The guy looked at me and he was like, well, she had the phone.

[346] He started justifying what he had done.

[347] I was like, dude, you punched the shit out of her.

[348] There is never a time this is okay.

[349] I was like, give her back her phone.

[350] Oh, you said barking.

[351] And he did.

[352] He did?

[353] I'm in charge that motherfuckers.

[354] Yeah, and I looked back at her.

[355] I was like, this is not okay.

[356] This is not normal.

[357] Get out of this.

[358] Do you need a right?

[359] where can I take you?

[360] And he's still chirping at me. I'm sure I gave him some colorful words back.

[361] And it ended with them walking in different directions.

[362] Okay.

[363] So the story's not over yet, though.

[364] So they leave in different directions.

[365] I'm like shaking from adrenaline.

[366] Of course.

[367] I call my now husband, tell him what happens.

[368] And he's like, what are you doing?

[369] They could see your car anywhere in town.

[370] I'm like, this is not okay.

[371] You could have been shot.

[372] Right.

[373] He got scared.

[374] With my dad.

[375] Call me next time.

[376] Yeah, I should.

[377] Yeah, I'll be like, go get them.

[378] It's awesome, but my dad would have said the same thing.

[379] Like, oh, look out for yourself.

[380] No, I'll clean up these streets.

[381] Let's go, Ashley, Hong Kong.

[382] I'm proud of you.

[383] So the next morning, I was a waitress at a cafe.

[384] And I went in for the morning, and there were a group of police officers that would come in, like, every Wednesday morning for breakfast.

[385] So I was serving them, I was like, hey, you'll never believe what happened.

[386] And I told them the story.

[387] and then got reprimanded.

[388] That's not what you do.

[389] They're like, here's what you do next time.

[390] Oh, what could have been better?

[391] They said call 911 first, follow them, report it.

[392] And then there's an incident.

[393] I'm sure there were a couple other pieces, but definitely don't go by yourself.

[394] I think you stated that.

[395] I mean, for the audience, I think that is the move.

[396] But I think you did the right thing because he listened to you.

[397] You said give her back her cell phone and he did it.

[398] Yeah, she was in charge.

[399] Well, you get so mad.

[400] I'm sure if she's getting hit by this guy, she probably feels worthless.

[401] and then by nobody pulling over, now society's okay with it.

[402] Exactly.

[403] But the story took a weird twist.

[404] A week later, the cops come back in for their breakfast.

[405] And they're like, Ashley, we have a story for you.

[406] I was like, oh, what happened?

[407] Like, well, we got called out to a domestic dispute call.

[408] And this woman was kicking out her husband or boyfriend.

[409] So they went out and the guy's yelling, she's yelling.

[410] And they finally start talking to her.

[411] She's like, you know what?

[412] He's been hitting me for forever.

[413] And just last week, he hit me on the side of the road.

[414] And this girl pulled over and started yelling at him.

[415] And she said, I don't have to take this.

[416] This is not okay.

[417] And I don't deserve it.

[418] And she was right.

[419] I'm kicking this guy out.

[420] Oh, my God.

[421] Wow, man. That is totally disproves what I've just recently accepted that I can't change people's behavior.

[422] That makes you want to cry.

[423] Why, you saved her.

[424] Yes, it's wonderful.

[425] So the guy apparently was like, well, that fucking girl, she was crazy.

[426] She was yelling at me. You should be arresting her and all of this stuff.

[427] They're like, she's our friend.

[428] He knows it was me. And he's like, what kind of car was it?

[429] The white Subaru with a bunch of stickers.

[430] And he was like, oh, yeah, I'll buy five of her terrifying.

[431] Uh -huh.

[432] Wow.

[433] We need them.

[434] We need more of you.

[435] That's so gangster that you got involved.

[436] I agree.

[437] trying to not get involved in other people's stuff because my therapist says it could hurt me. Now I'm going to not do that again.

[438] Well, I'm in the same boat.

[439] My therapist is like, you know, you can't change people.

[440] Yeah, exactly.

[441] Exactly.

[442] But I do believe in those moments.

[443] I will teach someone a lesson that is so...

[444] You know why?

[445] Because she's not teaching anyone a bad lesson.

[446] She's saving someone.

[447] I'm not in the business of teaching bad lessons.

[448] What are you talking?

[449] What did you just accuse me of?

[450] A couple bad lessons.

[451] One or two bad ones.

[452] Ashley, that's incredible.

[453] What a great story.

[454] Yes, that was awesome.

[455] It was pretty wild.

[456] Hopefully it stuck, you know, that's all you can hope for.

[457] Yeah.

[458] But your voice is in her head, like somebody else told her what she needed to hear.

[459] The fact that she sent it back out to the cops so that they knew it was the same story.

[460] Oh, wow.

[461] That's incredible.

[462] Great job, Ashley.

[463] We appreciate you telling us that story.

[464] It's really nice to meet you.

[465] well and thanks for having me okay take care wow i thought they were going to end up together who the interruptor and the puncher no ashley and the woman that left the man oh oh no you didn't i was hoping that's where the story was going to go that would be a beautiful i like the way that story went that woman oh man i wouldn't have thought of a story like that falling into the bully category but it does those are the best but then it made me realize if that's standing up to a boy, I've got several of these myself.

[466] Oh, okay.

[467] Like, as they're telling him, I'm like, oh, right.

[468] I remember my neighbor was getting beat by that guy, and I ran upper stairs, banged on the door, yelling, the cops are coming, trying to interrupt it.

[469] I hear him in there, shit's breaking, and then the door opens, and this dude is so big.

[470] When the door opens, he's running at me. It's like on immediately as the door opens, I'm now getting slammed into the the fire extinguisher mounted on the wall.

[471] We're at the top of a very tall staircase and we start wrestling.

[472] And the whole time I'm thinking, we're falling down these stairs.

[473] Someone's about to get paralyzed.

[474] I had him in a headlock for one minute and then something twisted around.

[475] I ended up just basically falling down the stairs a little bit, but caught myself.

[476] So I was like eight stairs below him and he's looking at me. And then the door slammed and locked.

[477] So she was locked.

[478] So then I started backing out of the thing.

[479] By the time I got to my stairwell, Bree is standing there.

[480] She's on 9 -1 -1.

[481] The cops are on their way.

[482] And then he turns and comes at our stairwell, and I just step up two steps.

[483] And as he walks by, he just looks at me. I'm thinking, like, is this going to be on again?

[484] And he's like, you wouldn't understand.

[485] She's a fucking cunt.

[486] And I was like, oh, God.

[487] And then he just wandered off down the street.

[488] Yikes.

[489] You were really proud of Ashley when she did that.

[490] You don't seem very proud of me. There's a woman getting beat on.

[491] conscious in her apartment and I intervened at great cost to my I'm not self and you do not seem very thrilled I'm not not thrilled what are you I feel like it was unexpected for Ashley and maybe it's expected for you so that's not a good or bad thing would expect it all here someone getting beat next to you're you're always going to intervene like you all yeah yeah yeah So now it's also like a rasseling story and like, you know, it's like, now it's like one of your, like, rassels.

[492] That's what happened.

[493] I got assaulted by a stranger.

[494] I know, I know.

[495] Would you have wanted Ashley to leave that part out of her story?

[496] No, but it's not the first time I've heard a rasseling or a confrontation.

[497] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[498] You know, it's just.

[499] It's par for the course.

[500] Exactly.

[501] And I don't know, Ashley, maybe that's par for the course for her.

[502] And her friends might be like, mm -hmm, mm -hmm, when they hear it.

[503] If you heard I went shopping and I bought some pants from the row.

[504] Yeah, sure.

[505] How exciting is that for you?

[506] Well, was a woman trapped inside the pants that you bought?

[507] Did you liberate her?

[508] No, but you're always to the defense.

[509] You know, it's always because.

[510] It's a damsel and distress.

[511] Yeah.

[512] It's a fable.

[513] It's a fable.

[514] It's a riddle.

[515] I've also been on the business end of your coming to someone else's defense.

[516] Mm. Oh, sure, sure.

[517] I know what that also feels like.

[518] Let's just be very clear that I've never gotten physical.

[519] See, I don't want the audience to think.

[520] You have never hit me with your hands or your body, but with your words you have.

[521] And, you know, I guess I can just sympathize with the person on the receiving end.

[522] But I'm glad you saved that lady.

[523] I want to be clear about that.

[524] Yeah, yeah, good.

[525] What's up, guys, this is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[526] and let me tell you, it's too good.

[527] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[528] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[529] And I don't mean just friends.

[530] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[531] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[532] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[533] We've all been there.

[534] Turning to the Internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rancers.

[535] ashes.

[536] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[537] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[538] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[539] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[540] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[541] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[542] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[543] Hello!

[544] Hello!

[545] My closet has a motion -detected light that I cannot figure out how to turn all the way on or all the way off.

[546] So hopefully I talk with my hands enough, I keep it on.

[547] Great.

[548] How fun.

[549] So you will intermittently go completely dark, right?

[550] imagine.

[551] Yes, it's a small little side closet.

[552] It's the smallest one in the house, so hopefully it has good audio.

[553] And are those really cute jammies behind you?

[554] It's a little matching set, yes.

[555] Oh, it's so cute.

[556] Yeah, really cute.

[557] Nice, Jess.

[558] They look comfy, too.

[559] Brooklyn?

[560] I wish.

[561] They'd be a lot softer if they were.

[562] Okay, so Courtney, you stood up to a bully?

[563] I did, and I feel like this story is meant for people who are a true heroic acts.

[564] This is a very low key, but I still did stand up to a bully.

[565] Okay, okay.

[566] You're just trying to set everyone's expectation.

[567] Okay, okay, that's fair.

[568] So I am a very proud alumni of Oklahoma State University.

[569] What's your team?

[570] The Cowboys, Black and Orange.

[571] Okay, you love your school, your alma mater.

[572] Similar to, I think, how Monica feels about Georgia.

[573] Absolutely.

[574] My grandfather went there, my mom went there, tons of family went there.

[575] So we bleed orange is what they say.

[576] I recently moved back to an area where I can go to more games and went to our first game, and we were playing Arizona State, which is where I'm from, and a lot of my family went there.

[577] And so my brother and sister -in -law flew in for the game, and we all got an Airbnb, and we're very excited for this game.

[578] House divided.

[579] Those are the best ones.

[580] Yes.

[581] And so Stillwater, Oklahoma, which is where the college is located, we are known for being very kind and friendly fans because we lose a lot, so we're very humble.

[582] Okay.

[583] We can't get coffee because as soon as we do, we lose it all.

[584] Oh, I can't relate, unfortunately.

[585] No, you cannot.

[586] I'm kidding.

[587] I'm kidding.

[588] No, no, no, no. You cannot.

[589] You can definitely brag.

[590] So we decided my husband and I had to buy a, like, mini -season ticket package.

[591] So we're going to be in these seats all season.

[592] Okay, okay.

[593] That's foreshadowing right there.

[594] It is a little bit, yes.

[595] Yeah, yeah.

[596] And so, you know, we get ready.

[597] Of course, we do a little tailgating.

[598] It's not SEC level tailgating.

[599] We are just in the big 12 So it's not crazy It is not like a wild time She needed to clarify that Because I have an image The shit you guys know Or here we go This is the car thing Oh All this old college thing Conferences 12 10 You have to come Because it's so fun Have you been to SEC Tailgate?

[600] I have not But I know that we don't do it as good I'm sure it's great Because you seem nicer than us So at least you got that going for you It's the southern nice But yes It's a very welcoming stadium.

[601] I have heard other fans get in trouble before for saying something a little too mean to an opposing fan.

[602] Like, we don't do that here.

[603] We like people to come back.

[604] So we have, I mean, really not tailgated a ton.

[605] I have just enough liquid courage for what I do, but definitely nothing crazy.

[606] I also am a very non -confrontational person in my life.

[607] So anyway, we go to this game.

[608] We're really excited.

[609] my brother and sister -in -law who are in the opposing team colors are in a different section just because, again, we bought these season tickets, we couldn't get them right next to us.

[610] So it's myself, my aunt, a cousin of mine, and my husband all in a row.

[611] First quarter starts, everything's exciting.

[612] We at least do beat Arizona State because Big 12 is better than Pac -12.

[613] So the first quarter ends, and we are going to use the bathrooms, get more drinks.

[614] So we all stand and our seats are really right in the middle of this section.

[615] And it's all bleachers.

[616] It's not like seats where the seat comes up, you know, nothing like that.

[617] And again, we've waited until gameplay has paused.

[618] So we're walking.

[619] And as you do when you're in the middle, you kind of work your way this way.

[620] If there's free space, then you go back the other.

[621] You know, you lose your way.

[622] So you can bother the least amount of people on your way out.

[623] And I'm the first one of our small little group.

[624] And I get to the very last.

[625] lady and I said oh excuse me and she said no what I said oh no we're not standing in front of you I just wanted to work our way around and she said no you are not sitting in these seats right next to us you can go back the way you came and walk around what and I was so appalled one that I was being told no in this situation and then two that she thought she could as an aisle sitter tell people they couldn't pass her right yeah that's her she has mineral rights That's part of the rule.

[626] If you book an I'll see, you know you will be asked.

[627] Your ass is up and down.

[628] Exactly.

[629] Descending as you get closer to the middle.

[630] Thank you, yes.

[631] So I, again, very taken aback by this attitude, was like, I'm sorry, are you asking us to walk all the way back through because we weren't sitting directly next to you?

[632] And she said, yeah.

[633] How old was she?

[634] Probably late 40s, early 50s.

[635] Was she by herself?

[636] She was not.

[637] Her name was probably Karen.

[638] and I had just passed her husband to speak to her.

[639] Oh, my God, the husband.

[640] I know several of these husbands.

[641] Me too.

[642] They're just sitting there.

[643] Their wife's getting them in a fight.

[644] And so there's a girl behind me who's probably either in college still or just out of college.

[645] And she says, she is not going to let you pass.

[646] She's been a bitch to everyone all day.

[647] So she has now spoken over to Karen.

[648] Yeah, she's entered the fray.

[649] Yeah.

[650] You got support.

[651] But also just.

[652] turn around.

[653] It's easier.

[654] Get over it.

[655] So she tells me she's a bitch, you're not going to get through, just turn around, enjoy your day.

[656] But I take that as a challenge.

[657] I'm like, we don't do this here.

[658] We are nice fans.

[659] And so I say to her, I'm really disappointed that you would act like that.

[660] And I said, I'm here with my family, the first game I've been back to in a very long time.

[661] My husband and I bought season tickets this season.

[662] We're just so excited to be here.

[663] I said, I am a very proud alumni, and I can't believe you are behaving like this.

[664] And really nothing.

[665] And I turned and I said, you are hurting my feelings that you would behave like this.

[666] Oh, wow.

[667] You hit her with you're hurting my feelings.

[668] And with that, her whole head sank and her shoulders slumped.

[669] And she mumbled as barely quiet as she could.

[670] I'm sorry.

[671] And with that, she stepped up onto the bleachers so that we could pass.

[672] It worked.

[673] Man, niceness work.

[674] This is a good story because you're very much.

[675] Vulnerability is what defeated the bully.

[676] It's true.

[677] Wow.

[678] This is incredible.

[679] I mean, to be honest, it sounds ridiculous what you said.

[680] Absolutely ridiculous.

[681] No, it really does.

[682] I don't know what came over me to say you're hurting my feelings because I felt like a kindergartner.

[683] Yes.

[684] But I was using my words.

[685] Yes.

[686] And then all my adrenaline was rushing.

[687] Like, this lady, she's done this to people all day.

[688] Like, what a terrible person.

[689] And what a terrible representation of our school.

[690] We do not act like that.

[691] And so I took my one step out of the aisle.

[692] And just before, I whipped my head back and said, don't worry, we will not be coming back this way.

[693] Oh, good.

[694] That's where you let her have it.

[695] Which most people have told me I should have said, I will be coming back this way all season, just to make sure you remember me. See you soon.

[696] So did you see her multiple times during the season?

[697] We didn't.

[698] So she must not be a season ticket holder.

[699] Yeah.

[700] If she was, she would have known she would have had better etiquette.

[701] I agree.

[702] She probably's not an alumina.

[703] She probably didn't even go there.

[704] She's probably a Sun Devil.

[705] Definitely a Sun Devil, yeah.

[706] Is that the name of the Arizona State?

[707] Yeah, that was very good.

[708] That was good.

[709] I only know that because it's Sun Devil Stadium.

[710] And I only know Sun Devil Stadium because across the street from Sun Devil Stadium in the 80s was Flaky Jakes, the original Fuddruckers, and we would go there.

[711] And by God, you'd build the best burger of all the time.

[712] Oh, you're from Arizona.

[713] Does any of that ring a bell?

[714] Totally.

[715] We loved fud wreckers.

[716] It was the best because all the toppings and you could do them yourself.

[717] So as a kid, it was so much freedom.

[718] And it was originally before you were eating hamburgers called Flaky Jakes.

[719] And we'd go visit my stepdad who would be working at the Arizona Proving Grounds.

[720] And we were all willing to go.

[721] And it was fine because Flaky Jakes was the reward.

[722] Yeah.

[723] That makes sense.

[724] Wow.

[725] Do you have children?

[726] I don't.

[727] Well, if you want them and can have them, I think you're going to be a great mom.

[728] Don't you think the way she handled all that?

[729] Yes, yes, yes.

[730] So it was very maternal.

[731] That's very kind.

[732] I do hope to have them eventually.

[733] Great story, Courtney.

[734] We really appreciate it.

[735] What a delight you are as well.

[736] Yeah, how great.

[737] Very nice to meet you.

[738] Thank you guys so much.

[739] I'm sweating.

[740] I've been nervous and so excited to talk to you guys.

[741] Everyone in my life knows I'm a huge fan and they've all been hyping me up all week.

[742] Oh, my God.

[743] That's so sweet.

[744] Don't mean to be one of those people to word vomit.

[745] all of my feelings do it vomit vomit I absolutely love every episode thank you for being vulnerable and giving so many different points of view it is absolutely what we need more of and I wish that everyone in the world listened oh it's so nice people can argue and still love each other and find some calm and something thank you that just bought me another couple years that single compliment right there oh you were going to give up why you're going to make everything negative.

[746] Jesus.

[747] All right.

[748] Well, thank you.

[749] Thank you so much.

[750] That was lovely.

[751] I really appreciate it.

[752] Thank you guys so much.

[753] Have a great rest of your day.

[754] All right, you too.

[755] Take care.

[756] Bye.

[757] She wishes everyone in the world listen.

[758] Super, super sweet.

[759] Do you think the world would be better if everyone in the world listened?

[760] I don't think so.

[761] Do you?

[762] No. I think it would be the same, right?

[763] I don't know.

[764] Depends on the person, I guess.

[765] Bad people listened and got better.

[766] I guess.

[767] But do people change when they?

[768] People could listen and get worse.

[769] Do people change by listening to things?

[770] Maybe they do.

[771] Have you been changed by Andy and Elizabeth?

[772] Yeah, I definitely have.

[773] I've been changed by, boy, changed or just maybe bolstered by like radio labs blame.

[774] Yeah.

[775] Because if you just know that ultimate forgiveness, if you observe that story, for me, I can actually recognize, oh, that's the bravest thing in the world.

[776] Totally.

[777] But I almost got to hear the story to recognize that.

[778] Yeah, I think that's changing.

[779] Yeah, like, oh, no, the toughest person in the world is the person that could show love to somebody in prison who caused so much pain in their life.

[780] I mean, that's crazy.

[781] Yeah.

[782] Hello.

[783] Hello.

[784] Oh, you sound great.

[785] Thank you.

[786] It's my natural voice.

[787] But your audio, it's picking up very nicely.

[788] Good to know, and nice to meet y 'all.

[789] I'm Dax.

[790] Ho?

[791] Am I saying that correctly?

[792] Exactly correct.

[793] Yeah, like that hoe over there.

[794] How many times do you have to say that to people?

[795] Anytime I go to a restaurant, I have a difficult time.

[796] They just roll their eyes.

[797] Okay, good one.

[798] Where are you at in the country?

[799] So actually, I'm in Korea right now, but I'm based in Pasadena.

[800] I was born in Guam, which is a Pacific Island, right, by Korea, kind of.

[801] And I grew up with people that look like me, who smell like me. And in middle school, my dad had to move around for work.

[802] So he said, hey, go live with your aunt and uncle in Minnesota.

[803] So I went from a hot tropical island to a freezing tundra in Minnesota in December.

[804] Oh, boy.

[805] At what age?

[806] I was 12, 13 at the time.

[807] Oh, 7th grade.

[808] Exactly.

[809] That's when the identity crisis was real and everyone looked like me and Monica and I went to a place that everyone looked like you actually.

[810] Sure, sure.

[811] Yeah, a lot of Scandinavians.

[812] Exactly.

[813] All like two feet taller than me and all that kind of stuff.

[814] So I went there in middle school and I thought I spoke English.

[815] But I had like a Pacific Islander accent, and I started to get real self -conscious.

[816] And that's when the bullying started.

[817] I wanted to be a skater, but I was terrible at it.

[818] So they called me posers.

[819] Oh, no. Oh, no. I hate this story.

[820] By the way, us skateboarders are supposed to accept everybody.

[821] That's why you get a skateboard.

[822] That's what I thought, too, but I was terrible at it.

[823] Another thing that really got me was, I guess I smelled.

[824] We obviously cook Korean food in the house, kimchi, garlic, all of them.

[825] that.

[826] So kids would make fun of me, my accent and all that.

[827] So I got real self -conscious.

[828] It was just endless.

[829] I think in middle school, it's really easy to do that.

[830] I was one of two colored kids in that middle school as well.

[831] So my aunt, who I was living with, got relocated to Denver.

[832] So I was living in Colorado for a bit.

[833] And it was my time to shine, right?

[834] I was like, I'm going to rebrand myself.

[835] We're not going to repeat what just happened.

[836] Exactly.

[837] So I bought Aquadigio.

[838] I put it on Like, it was religious.

[839] Oh, okay.

[840] I found out my classmate was like the goofball.

[841] And I realized that if you're funny and you made fun of yourself before other people, that helped.

[842] You know, every time I listen to y 'all's podcast and I listen to Monica talk about how you just want to fit in and just like blend in, that was exactly me. I had a blast, actually.

[843] I kind of rebranded, like I said.

[844] Yeah, reboot.

[845] People would laugh at me. And I realized I was making jokes about my race before other people could.

[846] so it would hurt less.

[847] So going great, popular in school, and then in 2007, the Virginia Tech shooting happened.

[848] And the morning I heard the news, that trauma of being picked on kind of kicked in.

[849] So I went to school really nervous, but it was fine.

[850] No one said a word, and I was just in class, and I was relaxing.

[851] And there's always one kid in one of my classes.

[852] We'll call him Zach.

[853] He would always say something.

[854] And he wasn't one of my closest friends.

[855] So his jokes would hurt a little bit more, but I let it slide.

[856] I was one of the cool guys, right?

[857] It was not a big deal.

[858] But that day, he started to make comments.

[859] He said, hey, hey, don't we have to check his backpack?

[860] Oh, God.

[861] We need to do a search on him and things like that.

[862] And at first, I laughed it off.

[863] Wasn't a big deal, but, you know, class is 45 minutes.

[864] And you can only take the jokes for so long.

[865] Yeah.

[866] I was a sensitive kid, lover, not a fighter.

[867] And I started to feel like all the emotions of everything come up.

[868] The rebrand didn't work.

[869] Like, I'm failing.

[870] Oh, God.

[871] I started to tear up and I could feel myself wanting to cry, you know, and I'm a senior in high school.

[872] So I don't know what came over me. After 30 minutes of the jokes, it was either I cry or I fight.

[873] And I've never fought before in my life, right?

[874] So I just stood up, I turned around, and I punched him square in the face.

[875] Oh, wow.

[876] Wow, wow, wow.

[877] First act of aggression and you went all the way.

[878] Exactly.

[879] I just went for it.

[880] And because I've never fought before and I'm just, you know, with children.

[881] dude, the class went silent.

[882] Yeah.

[883] Yeah, I bet.

[884] I had no idea what to do.

[885] The teacher just kind of stared at us.

[886] And I just sat down and he didn't fight back.

[887] I think he knew he crossed the line.

[888] Yes.

[889] I still remember this teacher so well.

[890] He did the greatest thing I could imagine and acted like nothing happened.

[891] Wow.

[892] It went on teaching.

[893] Good.

[894] You heard the jokes.

[895] Yeah.

[896] Yeah.

[897] He's like, oh, justice just got served.

[898] Exactly.

[899] And violence, of course, never cool, but sometimes an option.

[900] It's not a great option, but if it prevents your suffering permanently, to me, that's worth it.

[901] Yeah, I agreed.

[902] It worked out for me. My mom always said, because I was a softie, so she always taught me, stick off yourself, and if you get in trouble, I'll deal with it.

[903] And I have your back.

[904] That's the proverbial bully story, though, that of course, after all of his taunting, once he got put in his place, he immediately caved.

[905] Good for you.

[906] Thank you.

[907] Yeah, we talked after class.

[908] He apologized.

[909] Oh, my God, really?

[910] Yeah, and he was real cool afterwards, still had to deal with comments here and there.

[911] But word must have got out that you had belted him in class, right?

[912] The whole school had to have known the next day.

[913] Yeah, 2007, we still had cell phones at that time.

[914] So people were texting.

[915] They're like, Ho went off in science today.

[916] Exactly.

[917] It was one punch, and it was probably real soft, but, you know, the rumors spread.

[918] Really beat Zach up, you know, all that kind of stuff.

[919] Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[920] Oh, my God, that's great.

[921] Oh, wow.

[922] Oh, it's good when they can turn.

[923] That was so heartbreaking.

[924] I know.

[925] And then it doesn't erase anything.

[926] I guess that's the thing that is worth observing.

[927] It's like it feels like it takes away all that, but it's still there.

[928] Yeah, for sure.

[929] It's like you have a fantasy that you could erase everything.

[930] But maybe it prevented him from doing more harm, which is.

[931] That wasn't going to stop.

[932] And rethinking maybe in his life, anything like that.

[933] Obviously, I won't punch someone unless it got to that point again.

[934] But it did help me learn to deal.

[935] with those kinds of comments that are inevitable, they're going to come every once in a while and, you know, just having to deal with it and standing up for myself was pretty solid.

[936] Yeah.

[937] Now, look, I don't want it to sound like I'm making a case for the bully, but I will say, I bet part of the stun might have been, I know, best case scenario, in his mind, he wasn't hurting you that bad.

[938] Like, he doesn't think he's evil.

[939] He thinks this is funny.

[940] And then when he sees the level of anger and hurt, he caused, he could be startled by that aspect as well.

[941] Like it could be hitting him all at once, like, oh, fuck, he didn't like that.

[942] For sure.

[943] I definitely enabled a lot of the bullying because I was the one cracking jokes.

[944] I was the one doing that.

[945] And he wasn't a close friend, but he would observe that.

[946] And they called me the cool Asian or whatever.

[947] I was definitely a part of the problem.

[948] And I realized that that could not work in my benefit.

[949] Yeah, it was a learning experience.

[950] What a ride, man, to fucking go from Guam to Minnesota to Colorado.

[951] Yeah, I went to school in shorts.

[952] It was December.

[953] Oh, God.

[954] And it was just severely decimated, yeah, Guam, by a tropical storm?

[955] Yeah, the reason I'm here in Korea, I was in Guam visiting family last week.

[956] Through the super typhoon, still no power, no electricity.

[957] We're like, let's get out of here for a time being.

[958] Wow.

[959] Well, I'm glad you weren't there.

[960] Yeah, same.

[961] Well, oh, that is a life -affirming story.

[962] Yeah.

[963] That's like right out of Lassie or something.

[964] It's pure.

[965] It is very rare.

[966] I definitely don't tell this story a lot, but, yeah, Monica, you inspire people.

[967] It's cool seeing all the representation.

[968] Thanks.

[969] Oh, it's so nice to meet you.

[970] Thanks for telling us that story.

[971] Of course, likewise.

[972] It's nice to meet you.

[973] All right.

[974] Take care.

[975] Bye.

[976] You were a little worried they were going to be sad, which they were.

[977] One was.

[978] But then.

[979] Yeah.

[980] Worth feeling the sadness over that.

[981] I think people can listen to this one.

[982] Interestingly, right?

[983] Because we've had some innocuous ones that should not be listened to.

[984] And then bullying, you would think you'd need a lot of warnings.

[985] I guess the stabbing one.

[986] If you've been stabbed, maybe we'll say if you've been stabbed, this might be a hard episode for you.

[987] Triggering.

[988] Also, have you been stabbed with a compass?

[989] Specifically, yeah.

[990] Because if I got stabbed with a knife, and then I hear a story of someone got said, I'd be like, Motherfugger, you don't have to warn me about that.

[991] That's not the shit I went through.

[992] Yeah.

[993] And we don't want to really cause a riff between people who've been stabbed by knives and stabbed by compasses.

[994] Pro -drackers.

[995] Yeah.

[996] All right.

[997] Well, I enjoyed that immensely.

[998] Me too.

[999] That was very, that was nice.

[1000] That was good.

[1001] That was nice.

[1002] All right.

[1003] Good night.

[1004] It was nice.

[1005] Do you want to sing a tune or something?

[1006] We don't have a thing song for this new show, so here I go, go, go.

[1007] We're going to ask some random questions, and with the help of armcherry's book and some suggestions on the flyer rhyme dish, on the flyer rindish, enjoy.

[1008] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcast.

[1009] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[1010] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.