Emily Morse

[0] Welcome, welcome.

[1] Welcome to armchair expert.

[2] I'm Dan Rather.

[3] I'm joined by Lindsay Buckingham.

[4] How are you, Lindsay?

[5] I'm a royal.

[6] No, no, no, no. That's from Fleetwood Mac, Lindsay Buckingham.

[7] Oh, oh my God.

[8] Well, that was a mess.

[9] Buckingham was a trick.

[10] That should have been a royal.

[11] Yeah.

[12] Oh, that reminds me of the funniest story about Ken Kennedy.

[13] You remember this one?

[14] He got pulled over in high school.

[15] The street he lived on was called Buckminster.

[16] Okay.

[17] Oh, wow.

[18] And he got pulled over for speeding and the cop asked for his license.

[19] And he looked at it and he said, do you know why I pulled you over this evening, Mr. Buck Minister?

[20] Mr. Buck Minister.

[21] Oh, Ken Kennedy.

[22] Today we have a really exciting expert on Emily Morse.

[23] She is a sex therapist and author and host of the podcast, Sex with Emily.

[24] I can't believe it took us as long to have a sex and intimacy conversation.

[25] Right.

[26] And tomorrow's Valentine's Day.

[27] Well, that too.

[28] So, wait, I don't know if it's tomorrow, but.

[29] Valentine's Day's knocking on the back door.

[30] Valentine's days on Sunday.

[31] So this was timely.

[32] Yeah, prime the pump.

[33] Listen, Emily has made it her mission to normalize the conversation around sex and she has a new masterclass.

[34] The masterclass she teaches is called Emily Morris teaches sex and intimacy.

[35] She can help you learn how to identify what you want, communicate your desires, and discover new sexual adventures.

[36] So please enjoy Emily Morris.

[37] Wondry Plus subscribers can list listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[38] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[39] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[40] He's an armchair expert.

[41] Hello.

[42] Hi.

[43] Oh my God.

[44] I'm so excited to meet you guys.

[45] We're so excited to meet you.

[46] We are for real, real, real excited.

[47] We say that to a lot of people, but genuinely, I'll speak for myself.

[48] I'm a bona fide pervert.

[49] The fact that we haven't had a sex expert on yet.

[50] How is that possible?

[51] I love your show, and I'm honored to be on it.

[52] Oh, thank you.

[53] We did have a sex addiction specialist, Dr. Alex.

[54] Catehawkus.

[55] Oh, right, right.

[56] But that was more addressing my pathologies than just the fun of it all.

[57] The fun of it all.

[58] Yeah, this promises to be the fun version.

[59] But you kind of consider yourself a sex expert, sex expert.

[60] Sure, sure.

[61] So that's probably why.

[62] I consider myself an expert on most thing.

[63] Yeah, yeah, an expert expert.

[64] But Emily, we're both from not just Michigan, but we're both from Oakland County.

[65] I know.

[66] I feel like we have so many similarities because in listening to your show, it's like I can so relate to all the Michigan things.

[67] And your accent.

[68] I love that you still have your accent, your long A's.

[69] You know, it's funny as, of course, my wife is also from Michigan, and she says I still have one, but I don't even know what that means.

[70] It's great.

[71] Yeah, apparently I still have it.

[72] Yeah, you do.

[73] It's fun.

[74] Yeah, we're both from, we have that whole experience.

[75] And do you miss Greek salad?

[76] I do miss Greek salad.

[77] Yeah, that's it.

[78] I love it.

[79] I miss a lot about Michigan.

[80] I mean, I don't go back as much, well, now in the last year.

[81] But, you know, I'm glad that I had the Midwestern upbringing, I have to say.

[82] Me too.

[83] And I just went back in the fall and went to four cider mills in one day.

[84] That's what I miss. The donuts and the bees, though.

[85] There was always so many bees.

[86] Oh, my.

[87] God.

[88] So I recorded the whole thing with my best friend, Aaron, and we kept getting chased out of everywhere by the bees because we're both allergic to bees.

[89] Oh.

[90] Yeah, to ever -present theme in the whole thing.

[91] The most exciting thing I remember in my late teens was that Elizabeth Berkeley was from Farmington Hills.

[92] Was that always on your mind as well?

[93] Always.

[94] And last week, someone's like, well, do you remember Elizabeth Berkeley?

[95] But now they talk about Kristen Bell, too, because there's not that many of us from Michigan.

[96] So you always talked about the few people that were from Michigan that made it.

[97] Yeah.

[98] And you did much better in school than I did in Michigan because I could have not have gotten into U of M, but you did get into U of M. Why did you want to do psychology?

[99] Because I have a stereotype about psych students.

[100] I wanted to do psychology because, well, this isn't such a Michigan thing.

[101] I had a cousin who was older and went to Michigan.

[102] And when I got there, it was one of those first times I didn't know it then but it was commitment issues and they were like pick a major and I got there and you're a freshman it's like okay I just got here and like you better pick a major I'm like how the hell do I know what I want to be for the rest of my life I've only worked at the shoe warehouse and I don't know what I want to be and so my cousin Liz was a psychology major and I thought that would be really interesting maybe I should do that and then come to find out that I actually love therapy I love analysis and it was the right choice for me. And then within psychology you're learning about human sexuality is covered.

[103] It's a big part of our psychology yet.

[104] So not then.

[105] Not then.

[106] No. Listen, there was no talk about sex when I was in college.

[107] Sex didn't come until much later.

[108] So for me, it wasn't until 15 years ago was when I did the switch to sex.

[109] So I studied psychology and then I was in therapy.

[110] My parents were always very pro therapy.

[111] So my parents got divorced.

[112] when I was young.

[113] What age?

[114] Nine.

[115] They got divorced.

[116] And mom's like, well, you should just, you know, go to therapy.

[117] So they were always pro that.

[118] And so the psychology part of it just made sense to me. But then I had this switch my senior year at Michigan.

[119] I was like running through the, what was it called that park that I wrote?

[120] We did mushrooms there once.

[121] You know the park where they would have hash bash.

[122] Yes.

[123] Yeah.

[124] Yep.

[125] I attended.

[126] Right.

[127] That was a big thing.

[128] I mean, we did that.

[129] There was more talk about drugs.

[130] There was weed was way more acceptable than talking about sex then.

[131] I don't even think they had a human sexuality program, at least I didn't know about it.

[132] But a feather in the cap, just not to counter your claims, but naked run they have at you of them.

[133] I do know the naked run.

[134] I forgot.

[135] Everyone gets bare naked, Monica, and goes for a jog.

[136] Wow.

[137] I was a little bit.

[138] In winter, I think.

[139] Yeah, they do.

[140] I was uptight, though, a little bit.

[141] I was much more conservative in college.

[142] I was like, if I have sex with too many guys and they're going to judge me and I never wanted to be taken advantage of by a man, it was all the stuff that I'm so against right now.

[143] about women feeling that we're defined by our sexuality.

[144] So I would never have gone naked running.

[145] Now I'd be the first one.

[146] I'd be meeting the naked run.

[147] Like, I'm a totally different person than I was in Michigan.

[148] If I asked my wife and she gives me the green light, should we go do the naked run and raise money for some needy children?

[149] No, absolutely.

[150] Don't make it about children again.

[151] I wanted to do a perverted calendar and donate the money to children, and Monica wasn't for it.

[152] No. I know.

[153] I always want to do things for kids, and they're like, well, you do sex.

[154] but I do want to do sex education.

[155] I'm like, yeah, but that's why they need it.

[156] The kids need to know about sex.

[157] I didn't have any sex education growing up at all.

[158] What's your theory on why sex is in this country the most taboo topic still?

[159] I have a bunch of theories and opinions, but one hard example I would just give is simply in movie ratings.

[160] If you lick a nipple, you're going to get an NC -17 rating.

[161] But if you hack the boob off with a machete, you're going to get a PG -13.

[162] That should tell you something very deeply about our relationship with sexuality.

[163] Oh, my God, yes.

[164] Why do I think that sex is so taboo?

[165] Honestly, it's because in some ways we're thinking, oh, America, we're so over -sexed, all these sex and movies, and we're so open.

[166] But really, we're a very puritanical society where we are so uptight.

[167] It's shame, it's religion, it's our upbringing.

[168] We are terrified to talk about sex, to be maligned.

[169] I mean, I believe everything starts because we have horrible sex education in America.

[170] And in most of the world, but only like 16 states require sex ed to be medically accurate.

[171] Oh.

[172] Medically accurate.

[173] And most of it is abstinence -based.

[174] So here we have kids being told that sex is going to be this amazing thing when you grow up.

[175] You can't really talk about it.

[176] You kind of have to giggle and it's a weird thing.

[177] Maybe you hear about giving a blow job in seventh grade, but you don't really know what any of it means.

[178] And if you do have sex education, I don't know about you, Dax, or Monica, I had one day in sixth grade.

[179] And all I remember with some kid, like, raise his hand, he's like, Mrs. Jones, can you fuck underwater?

[180] Like, that's all I remember.

[181] You can, but it's challenging.

[182] Yeah.

[183] It's challenging.

[184] And you think all the water would make great lubrication.

[185] And it doesn't, it cancels out your natural lubrication.

[186] I didn't know any of that stuff.

[187] So we have no education, right?

[188] And then you go off and have sex.

[189] and this was my experience, like my journey was that like, it wasn't that great.

[190] Sure.

[191] Lost my virginity and my boyfriend's waterbed in Farmington Hills.

[192] And it was just like, but I thought this is it.

[193] This is not that interesting, that exciting.

[194] And what I found is so many kids today, because I talked a lot of my friends, kids, nieces, it's the same exact thing.

[195] Nothing has changed as far as accurate comprehensive sex education.

[196] So it's almost like handing our kids the keys to the car and saying, well, now you can go drive, but we never give them any driver's training, we don't talk about it, and then it's shamed.

[197] Well, and I'd argue it's been compounded by the ubiquitousness of pornography.

[198] So, in fact, these kids have the illusion that they actually have more knowledge about sex because they've seen this roided out shaved guy pound a human being for 40 minutes straight, and that is what the guideline is.

[199] It's exactly it, because we didn't even have porn, right?

[200] You had like a magazine you'd look at.

[201] then you were still kind of like, oh, but this is confusing to me. But now with porn, and there was a study that just came out this week, which just pissed me off even more because it said that 18 to 24 -year -olds, like 70 % of them thought that porn is sex education.

[202] And in fact, it's the only sex that they have.

[203] No one is telling them that that's not real.

[204] Right, right, right.

[205] Well, it's as real as a fistfight you see superheroes have in movies as well, because everything in movies is some abstraction of our bizarre fantasies, whoever's writing it.

[206] Right, exactly.

[207] I talked to a friend's kid.

[208] He's like 17, and he called me because I'm very passionate about educating everyone, but definitely young people, because I realize that nothing has changed in the years that I was even in Michigan.

[209] So he's in Michigan, 17 years old.

[210] I'll call him John.

[211] Will you just talk to him, Emily, because he's got a girlfriend.

[212] He won't tell me what's going on.

[213] so we get on the phone and he's like was having problems with anxiety and his performance sure sure performance and I said well John do you watch porn I'm just curious he's like well yeah of course and I said okay no no shame because the last thing I do is tell people do not watch porn I said but just so you know it's not really accurate like I'm looking at it going you know where near her clitoris like how is she having an orgasm right there's scripts they cheat towards camera they have makeup on their body body parts.

[214] It's just not real.

[215] And he said, okay, okay, I hear you.

[216] If that's not real sex, then can you please direct me somewhere to go so I can see real sex?

[217] And then I'm like, I don't have anywhere for you to go, really.

[218] I mean, listen to my podcast or read these books or do all these things, but there's just not a replacement for it.

[219] And so it's problematic and it's also addictive and titillating.

[220] Yeah.

[221] So it's just very confusing.

[222] I'm trying to untangle that.

[223] I've said this before.

[224] I got so lucky, just dumb luck.

[225] This girl that was way older than me, liked me, and I was 15, and we hooked up in my bedroom, and she just said, like, let me walk you through all this stuff.

[226] Like, this is this.

[227] This is Mike Latoris.

[228] Don't go right at it, but start here, do this.

[229] And I was like, oh, absolutely.

[230] And I think the position of age power made her that confident, made my ego not get bruised.

[231] Like, oh, yeah, this girl's older, and she knows.

[232] knows.

[233] And I don't know, had that not happened, how many years I would have gone along before, because certainly none of my friends said, oh, by the way, this is how X, Y, and Z works.

[234] And my dad, even though he was super open, he didn't either.

[235] And if it would have happened in any household, it would have happened in mine.

[236] My dad spoke so openly about it.

[237] So I just think all the time, like, what a crazy, lucky thing that happened that probably doesn't happen.

[238] You know what's so interesting about that, Dax, is that in all the years I've been doing it, I've talked to so many thousands of people and questions.

[239] Every time a guy has had that experience of being with an older woman, it's changed the trajectory of their sex life.

[240] They're like, well, there was this one woman.

[241] And I met her in the summer and she came over and she showed me that I needed to go slow.

[242] Yeah.

[243] That I needed to pay attention.

[244] But honestly, that's probably one of the only experiences where I hear guys are like, I'm like, how did you know this?

[245] And they're like, there was an older woman.

[246] Yeah, yeah.

[247] There was a shaman.

[248] Literally a sex shaman, like a vagina.

[249] Shobman who showed up at your door.

[250] Yeah.

[251] God bless you, Lisa.

[252] I mean, you should send her some flowers or something because that was luck.

[253] I was raised to think that men got shipped off to some secret school when they were like 12 or 13.

[254] And someone sat down with them and said, this is what a woman wants.

[255] I thought they knew.

[256] So when I used to have sex with guys, I'd be like, well, they know what's up because guys know.

[257] Right.

[258] And then you come to find out they don't know anything.

[259] And I don't know anything.

[260] So we should figure it out together.

[261] And the system hurts both parties because, yes, every guy is aware of the fact that they're supposed to know.

[262] We're hip to that stereotype as well.

[263] Right.

[264] But the fact that you had a woman, you were able to be like, oh, I don't have to pretend because there's no way I could know because she's older.

[265] So that was the dynamic that, I don't know what we're saying.

[266] I guess your list is like, I should go find an older woman.

[267] And I'm not necessarily saying that, but there's other ways to learn.

[268] I think that it's a really weird cycle because the guys, no one's telling them.

[269] they don't know.

[270] And then girls also feel that they have to like it.

[271] Right.

[272] You know, like they have to please the guy as well and make it seem like they are having fun or it's good.

[273] So they never even are able to share with the guy.

[274] Oh, actually, that didn't really feel good or we should do this.

[275] Like, everyone's in this mode of pretending.

[276] Yeah, yeah.

[277] That's exactly it.

[278] And that's how I was.

[279] I was faking it.

[280] I thought it was about their pleasure, the whole thing.

[281] So I'm going to circle back now to why we don't like to talk about it because among my theories, one is, of course, the Puritanical history of this country.

[282] It is what it is.

[283] You go to Europe, clearly you see there's boobs on TV.

[284] German families are bare naked in the sauna together.

[285] It's clearly different.

[286] But I also think that because of all the things we just said, most people are entering into their sexual career with a great deal of fear.

[287] And that fear is, I'm inadequate.

[288] I cannot please someone.

[289] I'm expected to.

[290] to please them.

[291] I'm expected to know all this stuff.

[292] I don't know it.

[293] And when it comes up, all that's going to happen is it's going to expose my partner to my shortcomings or it's going to expose her shortcomings to me. There seems to be so much jeopardy in learning about it because one would have to admit that they're undereducated and we're all trying to be everything to our partner.

[294] And our greatest fear is that we're not doing it or we're failing.

[295] So I also think that's in the mix?

[296] Our greatest fear is right, that we're not lovable and we're going to be rejected, right?

[297] So then we throw sex onto the mix and you're like, well, I certainly can't, you know, mention that I don't know what I'm doing.

[298] So exactly what you're saying, it's like I'd much rather fake it or pretend I know that actually have someone ridicule me or shame me for it.

[299] My big thing is communication is a lubrication.

[300] I've been saying that for 15 years, talk to your partner about sex.

[301] That's how you're going to learn.

[302] People are starting to do it and maybe in a healthier way, I hope.

[303] But we don't bring it up because we're like, I have no role models.

[304] No one's ever talked about it.

[305] So if somebody does say to their partner, like if they venture, they're like, you know what, babe, sex last night, it was a little painful.

[306] Or I wasn't really into it.

[307] We're so afraid that if someone brings up sex that we are just the biggest, like our greatest fear that we are not good lovers or we're not lovable.

[308] And especially like giving feedback to our partners.

[309] Like people can't even get the words out of their mouth about what they wanted.

[310] Yes.

[311] I think it's so anchored in codependency.

[312] that your fear is that you will trigger in them their inadequacy, which even if you're fucking Don Juan, I still will have to adjust 15 ways to 15 different people.

[313] So there is no, you're perfect out of the gates, you know what to do.

[314] It's always going to be an evolution.

[315] Everyone's different.

[316] Everyone I've been with has been different in some degree.

[317] I'm different than my friends as I talk to them.

[318] So we all need to accept.

[319] No one's going to come out and knock a grand slam because you don't know.

[320] yet.

[321] Right.

[322] Exactly it.

[323] And there's nothing personal there.

[324] It's just you need to read the owner's manual.

[325] And we don't like asking for directions or I hate to be like gender stereotypes.

[326] We obviously like men don't want to ask for directions.

[327] So they're not going to sit down and pay attention to the owner's manual.

[328] But I love what you're saying because the truth is every partner is different.

[329] And this is the other thing I see like you'll be with a guy and he's like doing something.

[330] And you're like, clearly you got that from your last partner.

[331] And there is no part of me that is interested in that move.

[332] Yeah.

[333] But so the great news here.

[334] is that every time you're with someone new is such a wonderful opportunity to learn and to say, I'm with a new person, we are two people together that have never been together.

[335] My best advice is just to pay attention and to breathe and to be present.

[336] But when you go into autopilot, like I've seen this before, this penis or this clitoris, this is what I do.

[337] You don't know.

[338] Like, we're like snowflakes.

[339] Every penis is different.

[340] Every vulva is different.

[341] So like, if you just know that, there's no way you can, could even know.

[342] But when you're with someone new, if we could start to feel comfortable, even saying, like, does that feel good?

[343] What do you like?

[344] And be present with how we're feeling, then we'll all be great lovers.

[345] Yeah, I'm going to make a dumb analogy.

[346] But yeah, when you meet somebody, you don't go out to a restaurant and assume you could order off the menu for them.

[347] You're going to find out what they like to eat throughout this date and several others.

[348] And on the fifth one, you're going to suggest, ooh, I found an Italian one.

[349] I know you like this.

[350] You can't start there.

[351] I'd say this food analogy, similarly, that like when you go to a restaurant, you know, like you've had years of you're like, nope, whenever I go to Italian, I always get the chicken parm.

[352] I already know I don't love pasta as much.

[353] I don't like this kind of pizza, but I know because I've had years of eating Italian.

[354] So I know what's on the menu.

[355] I know what to order.

[356] With sex, we've never gotten a menu.

[357] We don't have an accurate menu.

[358] Or if we do it, there's like three things on it.

[359] And then we just feel that we're supposed to, we're always all flailing around in the dark and then we're just like having, you know, people are having pizza sex every night.

[360] They're having a pizza.

[361] They're having a pizza.

[362] They're wondering why they're bored with pizza.

[363] It's like that's how sex is for so many people.

[364] It's the same thing over and over again.

[365] And I try to give people a menu.

[366] Like what is possible?

[367] And that's the thing.

[368] It's like we're so ill -equipped to be sexually empowered.

[369] Well, there's these like layers of patriarchal fucking vestigial shit that's everywhere.

[370] But I will say this too about knowing yourself is a great start, and then what's great is if you can communicate with someone and you trust them, you could discover stuff, which is amazing.

[371] Like, if the ball doesn't get rolling, the best case scenario is that you're going to somehow figure out a way to manipulate your way into getting what you want.

[372] But if it starts with recognizing fears, being vulnerable, and then that foundation's there, then I actually think what can grow out of that is like, what do we both don't even know we like, you know, like this openness to a whole different world.

[373] Right.

[374] I mean, I would just love to see people in relationships, whether it's a one -night stand or it's a long -term relationship, constantly making their sex life part of the dialogue.

[375] Because if you're in a relationship, you decide, where do we want to eat?

[376] If we get married, are we going to have kids?

[377] Are we going to live in the city?

[378] How important is our health and our spirituality and our religion?

[379] but sex we hold on to the first three to six months of our sex life that's like the honeymoon phase oh it's about six months to two years and that's biological like you're with somebody new and you have all the love hormones are raging and it's like the best sex ever right we get really attached to that and then over time it's just either it gets stale our bodies change so rather than exploring it and getting curious we just sort of fumble our way through it and create the good old days rather than saying our sex life is going to be something that we want to prioritize in our relationship.

[380] So let's decide that it's just going to be part of our ongoing dialogue.

[381] And then it becomes fun.

[382] But I just am always trying to get people to get over that hurdle.

[383] Like the first few conversations might be weird.

[384] But to just say, yeah, I wasn't in the mood tonight and here's why.

[385] Or I listened to this podcast and I kind of got curious.

[386] You know, I realized we've never talked about our sex life.

[387] But we could start now.

[388] And what's the three most memorable times you've had sex like just easy things like that to get you both like oh yeah we can kind of figure this out but we just going back to society we're so afraid to even broach that because that it's going to point to us that we are inferior and bad lovers and bad humans yeah and do i have the biology wrong here in that yes those first few months females in particular are getting this dump of oxytocin and they're getting a lot of different hormones that make sex so wonderful and appealing for some duration, three months, six months, whatever it is.

[389] And that guys have this evil poison coursing through their veins, which is testosterone.

[390] So their ability to sustain that is a little easier in that they have that chemical.

[391] And that women in general need more novelty, right?

[392] Is this all right or wrong?

[393] Like, so it's dangerous and rightish and scary and wrong?

[394] It's right at all different phases.

[395] Like, women also have testosterone.

[396] And I think it's the chemical makeup.

[397] of when we get together with somebody, it is novel, it's exciting, it's new, it's spontaneous, you're having sex on the kitchen table, can't wait to see, you're ripping each other's clothes off in the car, and it's just like you've never been with this person, you've never done this sex act, and that's all new.

[398] And so it is novelty for both genders.

[399] So I don't know that it's more for men than women or for any gender, but when we come together in the beginning, I think it's just, they look at the brainwave patterns of people who are falling in love or in lust.

[400] I don't if you've heard this study.

[401] It's the same as people who are on cocaine.

[402] I don't doubt that for one second as an addict of both.

[403] Yeah.

[404] Yeah.

[405] Exactly.

[406] Okay, right.

[407] Of course.

[408] And then you know what happens with that.

[409] First bump is great, right?

[410] First few.

[411] And then you're like, and we don't know how to keep creating that high in a relationship.

[412] I hate to say this, but it's never going to be that newness again.

[413] But it could be something entirely different that is of equal value.

[414] Yeah.

[415] And I've seen that with so many couples.

[416] They can get into a new frontier, like go deeper into their connection.

[417] And, like, there are so many things to explore.

[418] We have so many nerve endings on our body.

[419] We have so much capacity for pleasure.

[420] We only know, like, 2 % of what's possible.

[421] We know the genitalia.

[422] We know the primary erogenous zones.

[423] Penis, vagina, breasts, anus.

[424] But, like, there's just so much more to us.

[425] And then I just, if everyone just gets curious about what is, is possible.

[426] There's just a lot to discover.

[427] Yeah.

[428] And there's a couple things I want to bring up that are specifically from your masterclass, but I wanted to get your perspective on a couple things before we got there.

[429] One is, I have noticed a pattern.

[430] It's undeniable that when male friends of mine have been cheated on, the line of questioning is so predictable.

[431] It's insane.

[432] I can imagine.

[433] And then when women are cheated on, they have a different line of questioning, or at least in my anecdotal circle.

[434] And I want to hear from both of you guys.

[435] For a guy, every time they're cheated on, the first thing is like, how big is his dick?

[436] It's the most important thing in the world.

[437] It's not where'd you meet him?

[438] Are you guys in love it?

[439] Is he rich?

[440] You know, none of the things you'd think you'd be threatened by.

[441] It's how big was his dick?

[442] And did you come?

[443] That's like the next question.

[444] Maybe they pepper in a couple of bullshit ones, but they're going to end up with did you comment how big was his dick?

[445] Yeah.

[446] And of course, what I can extrapolate from that is that is guys' biggest fears.

[447] Their biggest fears is that their penises aren't enough and that they are not giving their female partner enough orgasms.

[448] Or else, why is that the first thing they're threatened by?

[449] That's exactly it.

[450] And the thing about that is it's so male because women, they don't care about your penis.

[451] Men are obsessed with their penis.

[452] Oh, yeah.

[453] Women don't care at all.

[454] We're like, the penises are less concerned.

[455] Like, are you a great lover?

[456] Do you care?

[457] You know, all the things.

[458] But yeah, that is true that men are like, how was he in bed?

[459] Was he bigger than me?

[460] Was he better?

[461] And then maybe they'd get to how much money does he make.

[462] But it's always about the penis.

[463] If you had to stereotype what the female questions are, I've heard like, is she prettier than me?

[464] I think the first question is, are you in love with her?

[465] Oh, okay.

[466] Are you in love?

[467] I would say that would probably be a first question from a female if she...

[468] Monica, I think we almost hear that from women, if we're going to play the stereotype, you know, we'd be more horrified, like not if you had sex with her, like, amazing sex, we're like, you met her parents, you met her kids.

[469] Like, the emotional connection is what I think for many women were like, you talk to her three hours a night and you did all, you learned all this stuff, but rather than the sex, I think that some women might be more forgiving about it.

[470] So that is sort of a flip.

[471] So the fear there is I'm not going to be emotionally enough for this person?

[472] Yeah, I think the fear of that you love somebody else.

[473] Right.

[474] So I'm not worthy of love.

[475] Yeah, women, again, stereotyping.

[476] We might be more like, I don't care if you had sex with her as much as I do if you have a real heart connection to her.

[477] Right.

[478] And then for guys, they're like, yeah, it's okay.

[479] Maybe you went home and, you know, you guys went for a walk in the park.

[480] But if his dick was bigger than mine.

[481] Oh, a thousand percent of guys would way rather have their wife have a super emotional affair with a gay dude even went on vacation three months of the year and took him home to meet the parents.

[482] Then one night with a dude with a big dick.

[483] Right.

[484] Exactly.

[485] Yeah.

[486] I just think, and again, I'm stereotyping and I'm speaking very broadly because there's obviously so many more options than just male and female.

[487] But if I'm looking at male and female sex and when I was a kid, I think if we don't address these societal things that boys are taking on, which are ridiculous and completely erroneous.

[488] And no matter how many times you gals say it, it doesn't seem to get through.

[489] So there needs to be some kind of societal shift that men aren't walking around with that fear.

[490] that women aren't walking around with their baggage of fear.

[491] If there's any shot of us like having this flourishing exchange.

[492] I try because I have so many guys who call into my show and they're so terrified that their penis is too small and they're ashamed by it.

[493] I mean, obsessed.

[494] It's so embarrassing for us.

[495] Why can't they listen?

[496] They don't listen.

[497] I'll tell you exactly why.

[498] They think you're being kind and lying to them to safeguard.

[499] their feelings.

[500] Well, that is true because if we want to dismantle society, all the stuff that we believe about sex, it's because that's what you guys have been told.

[501] It's not your fault.

[502] Like, this is never even about like me, like, oh, God, I wish guys would get over it.

[503] You've been told since the beginning of time that sex is all about your penis going into a vagina when, in fact, only 25 to 30 percent of women are actually going to experience any kind of pleasure with your penis and that 70 % of women if we're talking to orgasms will have an orgasm with your mouth with your fingers with your hands like with a toy you should be more concerned about with a toy like how are those working for you how is your mouth skills how are you at pleasing a partner I'm telling you that all the time of my show I'm just like let me lay this down for you that's why porn so frustrating because I'm like she's not having an orgasm right now like he's not touching her he went write in.

[504] And so I think if we just look at the facts that I think that a woman would much rather have a guy who's a very like slow, attentive lover who's like, how can I please you?

[505] Like, let's go slow and let me discover all these ways.

[506] Let me massage your body.

[507] Let me slowly undress you.

[508] Let me go down on you.

[509] Let me do all these things.

[510] Again, they're size queens for sure.

[511] And then there's guys who want large breasts, small breasts.

[512] Like, I want to put it in that category.

[513] Like, sure, you'll find a woman who's just focused on the penis, but you're going to find way more women who are concerned with every other thing in your package than your package.

[514] Yeah.

[515] Everything else you bring to the table than your penis.

[516] I think the more people listen, they realize that that's why, again, going back to like communication and educating yourself with the partner that's in front of you.

[517] And in the other thing with penises is that there's so many guys I hear from that were like, yeah, I was in the locker room, you know, when I was 18, you know, and some guys said, it was smaller.

[518] Some woman once said, well, you've a small penis.

[519] And they're like 40 calling into my show.

[520] They're like, it's really small.

[521] You can't get it out of your head.

[522] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[523] We've all been there.

[524] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[525] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[526] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[527] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Bollin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[528] It's called Mr. Bollin, medical mysteries.

[529] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[530] Follow Mr. Balin's medical mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[531] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[532] What's up guys?

[533] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[534] Every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[535] And I don't mean just friends.

[536] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica, Fox.

[537] The list goes on.

[538] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[539] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[540] Well, this is why I wrestle with Monica hourly about this.

[541] Monica's very objectively beautiful, like crazy.

[542] Yes.

[543] Doesn't matter how many fucking people think so or how many times I tell her.

[544] She just can't hear it.

[545] She refuses facts on the surface.

[546] Whoa.

[547] Here we go.

[548] Let's hear.

[549] I want you to be able to relate to guys.

[550] You're like, no. You just like me. These people just care about me. That's what a guy's saying.

[551] Oh, she just doesn't want to hurt my feelings.

[552] She'd way rather be with it.

[553] I mean, it's the same record.

[554] It's hard to undo the childhood stuff.

[555] That is true.

[556] That's what we're here for.

[557] We are here to unpack all that stuff and you're never done.

[558] And when you're a boy, I mean, I can tell you guys as the boy here, where it starts is any group of six kids that are in fifth grade are going to show each other their penises.

[559] That happens to probably 80 % of boys.

[560] and then they are ranked.

[561] And that is a status in their peer group.

[562] And so it's very hard to imagine that that's not part of the status in your group considering that that's who it's for.

[563] So it starts as a logical, like, you know, even the dudes care.

[564] Bigger is better.

[565] Yes, yes, yes.

[566] I think if anything in these last year, it's like, who are the people that make you feel good?

[567] Who's energy, whether it's your friends or lovers?

[568] I think we just want to get to know someone.

[569] We want to be more authentic.

[570] So when someone's in your presence, I think that, again, we're growing up like it's all about your looks and all this stuff.

[571] But when someone actually meets you and sits with you and your energy and your presence, like that becomes attractive.

[572] That's the whole thing.

[573] So much about connection is about everything.

[574] The energy, how you move through the world.

[575] It's not even just about the external.

[576] I'm going to go further in my anecdotal experience, which is I've had a range of different lovers.

[577] And some of them were people that could have been on a magazine cover.

[578] Zero relationship between those two things and how pleasurable the intimacy was.

[579] The greatest lovers are the ones, this is why I talk so much about masturbation, because I truly think that that was a game changer for me when I realized like, oh, I got to stop faking orgasms and being all about the guy, like getting into my body.

[580] Like I think that's what made me a better lover of being more present was like, oh, now I know what feels good.

[581] I know how to move.

[582] I know what I want, what I don't want.

[583] That I truly think is the sexiest and most attractive thing when you're like in your body.

[584] You know what you want and you're comfortable.

[585] Like no matter what size and shape.

[586] But, you know, I think all the years that I would just sort of be a performance.

[587] Like I think women are raised to be so performative in the bedroom.

[588] Yeah.

[589] Well, again, watch a porno.

[590] So the guy thinks he has to last for an hour and just hammer away until these multiple orgasms happen.

[591] And the girl thinks she's got to scream as loud as she can.

[592] Yes.

[593] And so, Yeah, we're both getting fucked.

[594] Like, it's not even about men or what, yes, maybe men, the patriarchy puns more porn and porn is more made by the male gays for men.

[595] But that's why I want to like us all to be like, what do we all need individually?

[596] Like, put your own mask on, put your own hand down your pants first.

[597] What is that?

[598] Like, when do you feel the most beautiful, the most sexual, the most confident?

[599] And I think that for me, it's come from just truly understanding that.

[600] I mean, I had to untangle all of the stuff from being performative.

[601] So like when women call in their 20s, they're like, oh, how do I?

[602] I give a good blow job and how do I'm like okay well I'll answer that but tell me how do you get off like yeah how have you orgasms because I don't know jacks you're the penis in the room now like don't you think a woman who knows herself is oh I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna just put a little tiny finer point on what I was saying early about the range of lovers I've had the thing I want to be specific about is it's not that I think hot people are just going to lay there because they don't really have to do anything more it's probably more that I had sex with the hot person because they were hot.

[603] And then the other lovers I was attracted to because I was talking to them and we were on some wavelength.

[604] And then it turns out that that wavelength was a shared sexuality and there was a communication and there was like a creativity.

[605] And by and large, that mental connection has made for such more explosive and fulfilling physical interactions because it's the mind play that's happening, which you're not selecting for with the hot person in general.

[606] Right, exactly.

[607] You're like, I don't need to know anything else about her because she's hot.

[608] Right.

[609] So there is no other depth to it.

[610] And then, yes, to your pleasure thing, I think what I would most want in a lover would be that they love masturbating.

[611] They love pleasure.

[612] They love giving themselves pleasure.

[613] They are pursuing that goal for themselves.

[614] Because I want to be a part of that.

[615] I don't want to be a part of someone trying to.

[616] be something.

[617] I want to like lock on to the train that's steaming down the tracks and go for a ride.

[618] Right.

[619] I mean, you want someone who knows, because you don't want to be the one who's only the only one getting pleasure, but that's a growth thing because maybe younger guys are like, I don't even know that, well, this goes back to the comprehensive sex education.

[620] Guys are just like assuming younger men maybe, but some older who never get this message that it is about their pleasure and how a woman performs for them.

[621] But once you get more knowledge, you realize it, I definitely want a woman who knows her body and can.

[622] and share stuff with me. Well, I just want to say while you're on this topic, in the master class, you make the statement that you're responsible for your orgasm.

[623] You've got to stop this paradigm where my partner's got to give me an orgasm.

[624] And it's now all the powers in the partner's hands.

[625] None of it's in yours.

[626] Then you go back to why we don't talk about sex.

[627] There is so much shame around self -pleasure that it's like, oh, if you grew up in a home or an environment or culturally, religiously.

[628] And they were like, don't touch yourself.

[629] Don't masturbate.

[630] You're going to go blind.

[631] Once you get married, all of that stops.

[632] You never just go, oh, wait, maybe that was bullshit.

[633] Maybe that doesn't serve me anymore.

[634] Like, maybe I no longer believe that.

[635] And it doesn't even have to be that corrosive.

[636] So I grew up in a non -religious house with a mother who was super duper liberal and pro sex.

[637] But I didn't have a dad there to go like, hey, by the way, you're going to start wanting to jerk off and that's fine.

[638] Just that puzzle piece missing.

[639] And then whatever I consumed from media, I felt tremendous shame masturbating.

[640] I tried to stop all the time.

[641] I was always trying to quit masturbating.

[642] And I didn't even have that other shit.

[643] Right.

[644] That's exactly it.

[645] You didn't even have that, but you're like, there's probably something wrong with it because everything that has to do with sex is sort of dirty and seedy and wrong, except for procreation.

[646] Even if no one told you that, you somehow get the message from society that it's like somehow wrong.

[647] And then the other things people reach out about is like, is masturbation cheating, is watching porn cheating.

[648] I'm like, no, masturbation can be, yeah, all the time.

[649] I think I just, last night someone called in.

[650] They're like, is it cheating?

[651] My partner, or we get jealous?

[652] The thing is, I remember being like 24, and my boyfriend was watching porn, and I was so confused because I saw what he was watching and I thought, does he want me to have blonde hair?

[653] Does he want me to have bigger, larger breasts?

[654] Does he want me to have three penises in me at once?

[655] Exactly, right?

[656] Well, that's the other thing.

[657] Like, ugh.

[658] So you're like, what am I doing?

[659] What's going wrong?

[660] What do you tell people about that?

[661] Because I do think in relationships, porn is an issue for a lot of people.

[662] It is.

[663] And they think it's cheating or it's not allowed or what's your stance on that?

[664] It's a great question because it's like my stance is that like anything.

[665] So to say the extreme side of porn, yes, it can become a problem.

[666] Like if you're doing it so much, like we can go to that extreme.

[667] If you're doing it so much that it becomes you can no longer get aroused by your.

[668] partner.

[669] You have to keep escalating the kind of porn you're watching that it is like 18 million penises and gang bangs and like now your real partner is like doesn't do it for you and you're obsessively doing it and it has a consequence, right?

[670] Like that's how you know with addiction.

[671] It's a consequence and you can no longer get to work because all you're doing is masturbating.

[672] It's a problem.

[673] But like just your run of the mill masturbation watching porn is actually part of being sexually healthy overall.

[674] It's actually a really healthy thing.

[675] And I always say, like, your partner is going to masturbate with you, without you.

[676] They did it before they met you.

[677] They're going to do it in their relationship.

[678] So I think normalizing it and talking about it and even like letting your partner know, this is kind of makes me uncomfortable.

[679] I think that's okay to talk about.

[680] But then to realize that a lot of the people I hear that from is they don't have their own practice of masturbation.

[681] So I do hear it more from women than men.

[682] That one I will say that I hear it from women every day who are like, is it cheating?

[683] Is it wrong?

[684] And I understand that, too, because again, all the things I talk about, I went through that.

[685] It's just a confusing message because I was young and I thought our sex was the best ever.

[686] Like, we are having the best sex of our lives at 24.

[687] And how could you want that?

[688] Thank God it wasn't, right?

[689] Usually there's so many things underlying it.

[690] So let's say a woman calls in and I'm like talking about it.

[691] It's always like a little bit of her, maybe her own insecurities or her last partner.

[692] For every person they have their story, her last partner cheated on her.

[693] Maybe her last partner was actually addicted to porn, so it's a trigger.

[694] Maybe she felt like she actually had never had an orgasm herself, so it was confusing.

[695] Typically what is getting us with our partner, what's frustrating us, and people are like, my partner does this and that, it's always about our own stuff.

[696] Yeah.

[697] I also think even talking about porn being good or bad is the same as saying as alcohol good or bad.

[698] Well, for 21 % of America, alcohol is very destructive and terrible.

[699] And for 80, it's wonderful.

[700] So I think what happens in these conversations with couples, the ones I've been aware of, is they feel a lot safer and a lot less vulnerable and proving that what's being done is pathological or morally wrong or an addiction, as opposed to the harder course, which is, I'm threatened by that, I'm worried you're not attracted to me, I'm worried I'm not enough.

[701] Like that conversation is solvable.

[702] You giving your moral judgment on the entire world of pornography, and holding that line is, I don't think, productive.

[703] Exactly.

[704] And a lot of guys, yeah, there's a lot of guys out there regulating their emotions with pornography, and it's pathological and destructive.

[705] And that's a conversation, but it still isn't even a conversation about the morality of pornography.

[706] No, you're absolutely right.

[707] To just declare it's all bad or it's all good with anything.

[708] You're right.

[709] Some people kind of handle their porn, and that's exactly what it is.

[710] And so I love what you said about, like, if we could have those conversations and say, babe, when you watch porn, it actually makes me feel less desirable.

[711] It triggers my not enough thing that I have.

[712] You know, I have that thing.

[713] And I'm like, oh, but, you know, babe, what do you need to feel?

[714] Then you could get, like, really real and be like, it makes me feel vulnerable.

[715] Like, oh, I don't want to feel that way.

[716] And then if you could get to the next layer, it would be like, well, what would you need to feel attractive?

[717] Like, what would you need for me in this moment to feel the most lovable?

[718] Right, but if your approach is, I'm amoral, I'll fight that to the day.

[719] I'm dead.

[720] Yeah.

[721] Who gives you the right to tell me what?

[722] It's just not a winnable conversation.

[723] You will never win that.

[724] And that's why we want people to, you know, I know you guys want the same things.

[725] We'll just get into the real vulnerability of the fights.

[726] Because the fight's about good and bad and right and wrong and relationships never go well.

[727] And so many couples have those, not just porn, but everything.

[728] I like that you said one of your responses is, what are you doing for yourself?

[729] Because I think part of the reason certain women really despise the idea of their partner looking at porn is they think, like, well, I'm doing everything that you want.

[730] Like, I'm trying to be perfect for you.

[731] Why am I not?

[732] And I think if they switch their mindset to, like, what do I want?

[733] What do I like?

[734] Right.

[735] Then it kind of takes the focus off you're not able to please them.

[736] It's like, well, what about you?

[737] Well, yeah, shifts it where it should be is like, forget what you are giving him or not giving him.

[738] What do you want?

[739] Exactly.

[740] What do you want?

[741] That's exactly it.

[742] I go back every time with someone, I'm like, what do you want?

[743] Because once we fill our own cup and you're like, you go watch all the porn you want because I'm having a really good time you're getting to know my body.

[744] Like, I know exactly what I want.

[745] Yeah, fill my cup up 100%.

[746] And I'm not going to give a fuck what you do after that.

[747] Yeah.

[748] And then that's attractive too to a partner who's going through their own sexual awakening and I think we all want that.

[749] But until we really take the time to really learn to understand our own machinery and our own connection to our sexuality.

[750] It's really hard to be in healthy relationships, I think.

[751] And again, I don't think you're ever done.

[752] That's the big joke at the end of life.

[753] No matter what you do, there's always layers to pull back.

[754] Know that you never just get there.

[755] People think sex is like, I learned to golf.

[756] Like, I took a few lessons, now I can golf.

[757] Like, I learned sex.

[758] Check, you don't ever learn sex.

[759] Like, you don't ever just learn health.

[760] You're never just, I'm healthy.

[761] Check, it's a lifelong process of becoming with your body, your desires, I mean, your desires change over time.

[762] Like sometimes you may be into like kinkier things, but then you're like, can we just have vanilla sex?

[763] You know, sometimes you're into toys, sometimes you're not.

[764] You know what I'm saying?

[765] And to give yourself permission to grow and change is part of what's going to make your sex life really rich and complex and go the distance with you.

[766] But when we constantly get attached to this one place of how sex should be, that also holds us back.

[767] Yeah.

[768] Could you tell us overall, like, I think a lot of people probably de -prioritize their sexual wellness, but I would like you to tell us what the impact of sexual wellness is on your overall wellness.

[769] I do talk about this in the master class a lot.

[770] We deprioritize it.

[771] We put it on the back burner.

[772] We don't even really think it matters or it becomes messy.

[773] So we just say, well, we'll get back to our sex life.

[774] What we also don't realize is that a lot of the reasons why we're not feeling well overall, like mentally not well or, physically is because we are not sexually healthy and sexually well.

[775] You know, even orgasms, right, are really important for our well -being.

[776] Like, they also help with, you know, our overall moods.

[777] They can boost immunity.

[778] They can clear our skin.

[779] We have the burst again of those feel -good hormones.

[780] It can change your mood.

[781] Like, sometimes I'll even forget.

[782] I'm like, oh, yeah, I haven't masturbated food.

[783] Okay, I feel better.

[784] Having a healthy sexual relationship.

[785] And again, whether it's with ourselves, like, we're single, I'm single, or with a partner, it's still something that we have to put in our bucket.

[786] Like, we're going to work out, we're going to eat healthy, we're going to go to our religious place, and we're going to prioritize our sexual health and wellness.

[787] It's only in the last five to ten years that we even have industries looking at sexual health and wellness as a category.

[788] It was always like the bastard child of the health industry.

[789] And it still sort of is.

[790] So I think that we don't realize that sex is so many more things.

[791] It's connection, it's love, it's intimacy, it's our bodies.

[792] And so I just want people to unpack it and prioritize it in a way that will change your overall life because when we feel sexually confident and healthy and connected, it's going to impact every other area of our life.

[793] Well, I don't know these are wives' tales or they're backed by science, but I grew up learning that you should masturbate when you're sick because what you just said, it boosts your immune system and can help you get over a cold.

[794] And I heard that women should masturbate when they're having menstrual issues.

[795] Yes, it helps with PMS.

[796] Yeah.

[797] That's the last time we think we should masturbate.

[798] I'm uncomfortable.

[799] We're like, I have cramps.

[800] Like, I just want to sit here and eat ice cream in bed.

[801] And I am telling you like it's prescriptive, like an orgasm a day, get a toy, do whatever.

[802] It changes your state.

[803] You have that rush again.

[804] You've serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin.

[805] Yeah.

[806] Well, I like what Esther Perel says.

[807] Like, if you think of eroticism as its true Latin kind of definition, which is really zest for life, it's something that makes you flourish.

[808] Yeah.

[809] Now, I want to set you up for one of your main messages.

[810] You're very in favor of lube.

[811] Can you tell us the value of lube?

[812] Walk us through lube.

[813] I know you love lube.

[814] So I'm obsessed with lube.

[815] And I, one of my visions is a lube on every nightstand.

[816] Lube gets such a bad rap.

[817] Like, oh, I'm going to get the lube out, you know, if she's dry or there's uncomfortable.

[818] Like, it's under the bed.

[819] It's, we're hiding it.

[820] And the truth is, is that 80 % of women were more likely to orgasm when you add lube to any sexual situation.

[821] So I'm talking masturbation, any kind of sexual act penetration, anything.

[822] Because our clitoris is not going to lubricate itself is the one thing.

[823] And that's where all the magic is.

[824] But also our wetness level.

[825] So this is the other thing we're told, oh, babe, you're so wet.

[826] You're so turned on that that signals to a man, I'm doing it right.

[827] My penis was big enough.

[828] She's turned on all the things.

[829] This is the female equivalent of erectile dysfunction.

[830] Exactly.

[831] I think that's why lubes nowhere because it feels like a failure on the woman's part.

[832] Exactly.

[833] It feels like a failure.

[834] But let me tell you this to just make everyone feel a little bit better about it is that you might be really wet and not turned on.

[835] You might be super turned on and not wet.

[836] Or you might be wet at the beginning of sex, but you're not 10 minutes later.

[837] It's not a clear indicator of your arousal.

[838] Well, I don't want to get dark, but it's come up in a lot of these recent rape cases, which is that's part of the defense is like, oh, well, she was very wet.

[839] And it's like, well, she was afraid for.

[840] for her life and was aroused in all the ways a body can arouse itself.

[841] It by no means she was enjoying it.

[842] Exactly.

[843] That doesn't mean anything.

[844] That is true.

[845] Because it's a protective mechanism to get wet.

[846] But what we don't understand and what we don't have a lot of knowledge about is that our hormones play a huge factor in attraction and arousal and desire.

[847] And for different times of month as women move through different stages of their cycles, you're going to be wet.

[848] and this is different for every woman, maybe you're wet before your period, but then after you're a little bit drier.

[849] And so just to say, like, I literally do have like three different lobes on my nightstand.

[850] Get a pump bottle of lube and just put it in your hands before you do anything.

[851] You're guaranteed that it's going to feel better because also if it's too dry, this is when you can get tearing, you know, an STI infection.

[852] It's painful that when you just say, like, I will not have sex without lube.

[853] And it's funny because a lot of my listeners too are just like, I got it.

[854] They sent me pictures.

[855] Like, I got the Loub on the Nightstand.

[856] I heard one of your callers, and the guy was like, yeah, we have three bottles on the nightstand.

[857] We had to clean up before the housekeeper came.

[858] Right.

[859] Like, just put them out there and use it.

[860] So that is one of my big things to get rid of the shame in the Loub because it's game changer.

[861] It's funny because I didn't, when I started, I wasn't like, this is going to be my thing.

[862] But then I realized, oh, my God, no, people still feel this way about Loub.

[863] Well, listen, I want people to listen to your master class because I think we all are painfully in the dark when it comes to sex and sexuality and pleasing ourselves.

[864] And I think you're providing a great service with this master class.

[865] And I have one last question before we go, which is, are dudes super intimidated to sleep with you?

[866] Do you know that that's like the top question I get asked?

[867] Is it?

[868] Can I just say, we have a friend whose mother teaches tantric sex.

[869] Yeah.

[870] And I said, man, if I met your mom, I'd be very nervous to have sex with her because I don't know how to fucking have tantric sex.

[871] like it's 12 hours.

[872] It's very intimidating.

[873] It's funny because even my mom just asked me that last week.

[874] She's like, are guys intimidated to date you?

[875] So I started sex with Emily my podcast 15 years ago.

[876] And I was like, I'm just, no, it's, I'm not intimidating.

[877] I'm just like a nice girl from Michigan who loves Lou.

[878] Who loves Lou.

[879] Little did I know then how much I would love Lou.

[880] So I was like, no, I'm just, I'm like a normal chick who's in the bedroom and figuring it out.

[881] and now I do think that after 15 years and a doctorate homosexuality and then you get a master class so I'm like oh now you're the master of sex I'm like fuck it's gonna be even harder to date now yeah but I feel like that they probably are but then once you meet me I'm such a in a way it's like really is my job I talk about it 24 seven I love what I do I'm passionate about educating people and you know I think that the guys that get to my bedroom are like they're not intimidated they're at peace with the whole thing but then I've asked them afterwards I'm like Are you nervous about that?

[882] He's like, I was, yeah, I was fucking nervous.

[883] He did a good job because I didn't know you were.

[884] I mean, they pictures that I'm there with like a bullhorn, like yelling like, to left, to the right.

[885] That's not my clitoris.

[886] I'm like, no, I'm so not that shit.

[887] Fail.

[888] I give you an E. Well, your podcast is awesome.

[889] Sex with Emily.

[890] So everyone should listen to that.

[891] They should also watch your master class.

[892] And they should just embrace and explore and go into these uncharted waters because it's, It's so fun.

[893] That's what I want for people.

[894] I want to take out the shame.

[895] Yeah.

[896] Well, Emily, thank you so much.

[897] Thanks for the work you do.

[898] And I can't wait to talk to you again.

[899] Yeah.

[900] Thanks for having me. Yeah.

[901] Thank you.

[902] Bye.

[903] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[904] If you dare.

[905] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate, Monica badman.

[906] Hello, Monster Mouse.

[907] Hello.

[908] How are you doing?

[909] I'm good.

[910] It's almost Valentine's Day.

[911] It is.

[912] You know what I'm going to be doing this weekend, though?

[913] What?

[914] It's the Daytona 500.

[915] Can I just say life is really shaping up for us because Top Gear is now a sponsor.

[916] CarMax is a sponsor.

[917] And NASCAR is a sponsor.

[918] Yeah.

[919] This is slowly turning into automotive.

[920] Automotive Eden.

[921] Yeah.

[922] Can I tell you something?

[923] Yeah.

[924] Do you know who owns a NASCAR team now?

[925] Danny Ricardo.

[926] Even better.

[927] Who?

[928] Michael Jordan.

[929] Really?

[930] Yes, Michael Jordan bought a NASCAR team.

[931] Really?

[932] Your favorite, number 23.

[933] I'm in.

[934] By the way, I wonder if it's going to have 23 on the team.

[935] Let me tell you something even cooler than that.

[936] Do you know who his driver is?

[937] Oh.

[938] Bubba Wallace.

[939] Really?

[940] How cool is that?

[941] Oh, my God.

[942] I love this.

[943] Yeah.

[944] We've got to get Bubba Wallace on the show, by the way.

[945] Yeah, I really want to.

[946] Yeah.

[947] Okay, that's not where it even ends.

[948] Pitbull has a team.

[949] Jesus.

[950] All these cool.

[951] Do you have a team?

[952] You're right.

[953] Why don't I have a team?

[954] have a team for me you know it's kind of like a tradition you know what i'm saying i look forward to it it's like the super bowl like there's a nostalgia aspect for him but monica they go 200 miles an hour for 500 miles that makes sense that makes sense why they're getting incredible crashes and parts are flying up in the sky people are taking flight oh god it's so exciting so listen if you want to watch it with me okay it's on 2 30 eastern on fox okay okay meet dacks there everyone is invited to meet me there.

[955] So listen, I encourage you, Monica, to watch it.

[956] It's the Great American Race, the Daytona 500 on this Sunday at 2 .30 p .m. Eastern on Fox.

[957] And I promise you'll not be disappointed.

[958] Will Michael Jordan be there?

[959] I bet he will be there.

[960] He's the team owner.

[961] I'm going to watch.

[962] All right.

[963] 2 .30 Eastern on Fox.

[964] And that is Valentine's Day.

[965] So you're probably going to have to do something lovey -dovey.

[966] And what do you think that will be?

[967] Well, we have a bad, we have a really bad track record.

[968] I was going to ask.

[969] Yeah.

[970] Like, do you guys do stuff?

[971] We don't really do anything.

[972] Yeah.

[973] And then what tends to happen, and I don't know why this is always the case, but I generally am always out of town.

[974] Oh, weird.

[975] It started right when we started dating the first Valentine's Day, I went to Afghanistan.

[976] Oh.

[977] And then I went again in 2009 on Valentine's Day.

[978] They're romantic.

[979] Two of three years, I was in a little mountain scape during Valentine's Day.

[980] Do you believe in?

[981] You know, like some people, some people are really anti -valentine.

[982] Valentine's Day, which everyone's entitled to their own opinions on everything.

[983] But I think it's nice.

[984] And I've never, literally never had a Valentine.

[985] Oh, come on.

[986] Like my mom was my Valentine.

[987] No, not like my mom.

[988] You know what I mean.

[989] Oh, okay.

[990] Your dad never asked you to be his Valentine's Day?

[991] No. He doesn't know about Valentine's Day.

[992] Oh, that makes sense.

[993] Does he do anything for your mom?

[994] Probably not.

[995] Yeah.

[996] It's hard for a guy to wrap his head around, I think.

[997] You know why I think it can be triggering.

[998] It feels like a trap.

[999] It feels like this day that has been created by presumably Hallmark or some company to be a trap where everyone has to be evaluated on how thoughtful they are towards the person they love.

[1000] And to me, I'm like, no, no, just be thoughtful all year long.

[1001] I think it's just a nice day to be like, hey, I love you.

[1002] You're special to me. You don't have to do anything super crazy, but I just think it's a nice.

[1003] Look, we have like national, you know, popcorn day.

[1004] Like, I think it's okay to have a day that celebrates love.

[1005] Love is important.

[1006] I agree.

[1007] But can I just give it to you from the guys perspective?

[1008] Because it's this, I've had this experience like eight times and it's hysterical.

[1009] You go to the flower shop on Valentine's Day.

[1010] And in line are 30 confused guys.

[1011] Looking around going like, oh, my God, what am I supposed to get?

[1012] Like, what is?

[1013] Can I tell you something?

[1014] That's not thoughtful.

[1015] Oh.

[1016] I know everyone like that going and just getting some generic flowers and then expecting that to just cross it off the list.

[1017] Just, you know.

[1018] I got to see how I canceled the 1 ,800 flowers I sent you.

[1019] You don't have to get people flowers.

[1020] Like, you know, that's what I'm saying.

[1021] Yes, I get that.

[1022] But I just, I wish you could see.

[1023] In fact, you should.

[1024] You should go to a fucking flower shop on Valentine's Day and just look at all the dumb guys there.

[1025] They're all so scared.

[1026] They don't know what they're doing and they're panicked.

[1027] And it's hysterical.

[1028] Imagine that there was a holiday where every woman went to O 'OReilly's and bought auto, picked out auto parts for their husband.

[1029] You're making it about the woman.

[1030] It doesn't have to be that.

[1031] No guy in the world wants to celebrate Valentine's Day.

[1032] Oh, you don't like being told that you're loved?

[1033] Of course I like.

[1034] That seems like a weird null hypothesis.

[1035] No, it doesn't.

[1036] That's literally what it can be.

[1037] I love being told I'm loved.

[1038] Yeah.

[1039] Yeah, but I am not expecting someone to go out and buy me some kind of.

[1040] colorful thing to tell me that.

[1041] I don't think it's, I don't, I think that's a stereotype that women expect like a big bouquet of flowers.

[1042] It can just be a celebration of love.

[1043] Well, yeah, that'd be great if that's what it was.

[1044] I am saying no man is expecting anything on Valentine's Day.

[1045] And I do think women are expecting something.

[1046] There is a big, big gender difference here in this holiday.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] A lot of couples, I know they like do something for Valentine's Day, it's opposed to presents.

[1049] It's like, we're going to be going to be.

[1050] Yeah.

[1051] Okay, so then then becomes my next complaint.

[1052] Okay.

[1053] So you're going to try to go to a restaurant on Valentine's Day?

[1054] Yeah, too crowded.

[1055] It's just a beating.

[1056] Also right now.

[1057] It's just, it's like, why do we all pick this day to have, like, here's what I'd love.

[1058] Everyone should at least more than once a year take their honey to a nice restaurant with the sole purpose of saying, I love you and appreciate you.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] I don't love that it's coordinated.

[1061] That's my issue.

[1062] Okay, but that's just because you don't like being told what to do.

[1063] Well, I don't like trying to eat at a restaurant on the busiest day of the year.

[1064] I would never, like, if you just told me, the busiest day in the restaurant world is March 18th, I go, guess what day I'm not going out to eat March 18th?

[1065] Sure.

[1066] I'm not, no one has to do it.

[1067] Do you see any of my points I'm making?

[1068] Yes, but I, this is so far off of what I'm saying, which is some people have a really big anti -valentine's day thing.

[1069] And I think that's silly.

[1070] I think it's like, it's nice to tell people you love them.

[1071] and if today is a day that we like recognize that, that's nice, I think.

[1072] It doesn't not have to be about gifts or flowers or chocolate or whatever.

[1073] Well, then I'm in lockstep with you.

[1074] Okay, great.

[1075] Yeah.

[1076] I love love.

[1077] Me too.

[1078] It's so lovely.

[1079] I know.

[1080] It's the neatest thing that us monkeys do on this planet.

[1081] Exactly.

[1082] It's the one thing that the aliens look down on and they really.

[1083] They like it.

[1084] I think the aliens like Valentine's Day.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] I wonder if they'd just more notice like, wow, everyone went to out to eat today.

[1087] That's a weird coincidence.

[1088] Didn't that happen last year around this time?

[1089] Again, I'm saying this as someone who's never...

[1090] I should be the person who's like, ugh, Valentine.

[1091] And I do have people who feel that way.

[1092] And it reminds them that they're, quote, alone.

[1093] And I think, no, like, reinvent that.

[1094] You're not alone.

[1095] There's so many people in your life that love you and that you love.

[1096] and you can make that day about that.

[1097] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[1098] I ask my sister to be by Valentine.

[1099] I ask my daughters to be my Valentine.

[1100] Like, I ask a lot of people to be my Valentine.

[1101] It's a great day to have a Valentine.

[1102] It is.

[1103] Yeah, remember in class?

[1104] Yes, I was just thinking about that.

[1105] Yeah, you give it to everybody.

[1106] You say, will you be my Valentine to everybody in your class?

[1107] Did you like those little chalky heart candies?

[1108] Um, I did taste it terrible, but I loved reading them.

[1109] Yeah, me too.

[1110] Yeah, me too.

[1111] The white ones were pretty good.

[1112] They're bad, though.

[1113] Yeah, they're bad.

[1114] The first six you'd eat, you hated.

[1115] and then you just kind of get into a rhythm of it and you keep eating them and then you convince yourself like the 20th one was good.

[1116] In my high school, I don't remember if this was Valentine's or if this was like just a random day, but there was carnation buying.

[1117] Oh, sure, that's stressful.

[1118] So fucking.

[1119] Because then you're going to not be someone who got one delivered.

[1120] Is that how it worked?

[1121] Yes.

[1122] So there's carnations and you buy them from the school And then you give them to people.

[1123] And so then it's just like this contest of who has the most kind.

[1124] Like some girls walking around with like 20 carnations in their hands.

[1125] Just a big floral arrangement.

[1126] I just thought of one thing that you should know, which is I'm from Michigan.

[1127] So that's part of my issue.

[1128] Because in Michigan, we fucking celebrate sweetest day.

[1129] Do you know this?

[1130] No. Oh my God.

[1131] Yes, nobody knows that that doesn't live in Michigan.

[1132] Or I think maybe they do it in Ohio.

[1133] We have a fucking, we have two Valentine's Day in Michigan.

[1134] Okay.

[1135] We have Sweetest Day.

[1136] Sweetest?

[1137] Yes.

[1138] Yes.

[1139] Okay, that already makes no sense.

[1140] It was completely made up by Hallmark, and it worked.

[1141] For some reason, us, Michiganers were like, we love that.

[1142] So twice a year, you're supposed to buy something just for the sake of buying it to say you love somebody.

[1143] So I think I hit capacity between Sweetest Day and Valentine's Day.

[1144] I was like, what is all this pressure?

[1145] What does that even mean sweetest?

[1146] It's so stupid, shall I look it up for you?

[1147] Yes, please.

[1148] Because I'm telling you, it's just Valentine's Day.

[1149] It's a second fucking Valentine's Day.

[1150] Oh.

[1151] Sweetest Day is a holiday that is celebrated in Midwestern United States, parts of northern and in Florida, especially Tampa, Florida.

[1152] Oh, wow.

[1153] On the third Saturday in October, it is a day to share romantic deeds or expressions and acts of charity and kindness.

[1154] Sweetest Day has also been referred to as Hallmark holiday or a concocted promotion created by candy industries solely to increase sales.

[1155] I get it.

[1156] I get that if there could be a big expectation.

[1157] and certain relationships, and then that would be stressful.

[1158] And just women in their friendship circle, having to say what their sweetest got for them.

[1159] I remember when I was working at this for this race team when I was 15, and one of the guys had just moved up from, I think, Illinois or something.

[1160] And his wife was not talking to him that day because he hadn't gotten her anything for Sweetest Day.

[1161] And he's like, we just moved here.

[1162] I didn't even know that was a holiday.

[1163] And you're mad at me. And he was in the doghouse.

[1164] I just think it's hysterical that in her first year there, she was like, this is a holiday we're celebrating that we didn't know about a month ago.

[1165] So Emily talked to us about sex.

[1166] Can I pause you?

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] The most important fucking part of this whole day is three years, sister?

[1169] You're right.

[1170] I forgot.

[1171] This is our anniversary, armchair experts anniversary.

[1172] I was remembering it most of the first of.

[1173] the argument we just had.

[1174] I wanted to get to the part where I said congratulations and happy three year anniversary, which is so much more important than any of the things we're talking about to me. Definitely more important than sweetest day.

[1175] Let's do another high five.

[1176] It's a big high five.

[1177] That's the sound of a high five.

[1178] Thank you, arm cherries.

[1179] Yes.

[1180] You're our sweetest.

[1181] You are sweetest day.

[1182] For real.

[1183] We are so grateful.

[1184] Wow, wow, wow, wow.

[1185] Yeah, you cannot imagine what you've given us.

[1186] Also, it's been a year also since Monica and Jess.

[1187] Yeah.

[1188] Which is crazy.

[1189] Oh my gosh.

[1190] So it's been a year since that release.

[1191] And some people were asking about it recently on a comment thread.

[1192] And, you know, just putting it out that we are going to do a season two.

[1193] Yeah.

[1194] So, you know, hold your horses.

[1195] And it's - Yeah, no one wants a season two to kick off in quarantine.

[1196] I don't.

[1197] I want you guys to be able to get out on the town and do some shit.

[1198] We're doing something different with season two.

[1199] It's kind of like we learned about ourselves in season one.

[1200] We got a lot of information.

[1201] And in season two, we're kind of putting that a little more into action, even though there were action steps last time.

[1202] This is a little bit different.

[1203] It's going to be fun.

[1204] It's going to meet the road.

[1205] That's fun.

[1206] Okay.

[1207] You're going to go on so many dates.

[1208] Okay.

[1209] Okay.

[1210] So Emily talked to us about sex, sexual activity.

[1211] Never had it.

[1212] Coitus.

[1213] She made it sound like.

[1214] good though i'm thinking about trying are you okay great sex is interesting it is i think you know i've got my own uh pulpit i stand on and preach about sex yeah which is i'm always so angry it's such a sensitive topic it drives me nuts it's just i hate puritanical stuff yeah it's like this great gift everyone has it's the greatest gift that is given to humans i mean as far as like just pleasure in and transcendence and it's not a drug, you don't have a hangover, it's good for your cardiovascular system, it's good for everything in your body, it's wonderful, and then they've piled all this shame on top of it, and that angers me. It's a beautiful, pure thing.

[1215] There's shame, but there's also, it's weaponized, and it can be used as a drug, for sure.

[1216] So it's not just pure bliss.

[1217] There's a lot that goes along with sex that can be negative, which is why separate from being shamed.

[1218] It's just more complicated than I think you lay it out.

[1219] Well, I would just say, though, that I would put those things in different categories.

[1220] To me, that sounds a little bit like saying, like, when people wanted gay marriage and people are like, well, let's just legalize pedophilia.

[1221] It's like, well, hold on, pedophilia and gay marriage are not comparable in any sense.

[1222] And someone being a sexual predator, and what I'm talking about, the joy of sex between two people who love each other, those aren't the same thing.

[1223] So I'm talking about the joy of intimacy with somebody that you love.

[1224] And then there's this other perversion of it, a bastardization of it, but I don't think those aren't the same thing.

[1225] But you're not just talking about intimacy with someone you love.

[1226] You're saying there's shame around sex.

[1227] Sex does not have to be with someone you love.

[1228] No, it doesn't have to be.

[1229] But sex, consensual sex is nothing that someone should feel shameful about.

[1230] And masturbation is not something to sense.

[1231] Yeah, I agree.

[1232] And the pleasures of the self are not to be a source of shame.

[1233] I agree.

[1234] But consensual sex is one portion of the pie.

[1235] And I don't mean like pedophilia is the other portion or sexual predators.

[1236] It's like even within relationship, sex can be used negatively.

[1237] Mm -hmm.

[1238] So, but I agree that there should not be shame around it.

[1239] And that is the cause of so much.

[1240] Or secrecy.

[1241] I don't understand the secrecy.

[1242] Right.

[1243] Right.

[1244] Right.

[1245] that's true.

[1246] I don't understand our total acceptance and embracing of violence and not sex.

[1247] That to me seems like we have some pretty fucked up priorities as a society.

[1248] Yeah, I agree.

[1249] Okay, so she said how many nerve endings are there in the human body?

[1250] So, according to one of the things I found, it said over 7 trillion nerves in the human body.

[1251] The clitoris Okay, don't know what that is.

[1252] It has 8 ,000 nerve endings, and it's double than the penis.

[1253] Double the nerve endings.

[1254] I'm not surprised.

[1255] Yeah.

[1256] You shouldn't be.

[1257] Do you, this feels like a good time to retell this story.

[1258] I know I've told it before, but this is just to say how unique Laura Lebo was.

[1259] She said there's a lot of nerve endings in the anus.

[1260] Some people find it pleasurable and some don't.

[1261] Should I check how many are in the anus?

[1262] Yeah.

[1263] Well, if the anus is the clitoris, we're all ignoring.

[1264] God, my computer.

[1265] I noticed you were really pushing hard on the keys.

[1266] The end doesn't work.

[1267] Oh.

[1268] And it's like...

[1269] You need it.

[1270] I think it's because, remember that dog when we were on vacation in Michigan?

[1271] Dollard's dog?

[1272] Yes.

[1273] He ran on my computer.

[1274] Okay.

[1275] Got some sand under it?

[1276] Everything.

[1277] And like since then the thing has not been...

[1278] Do you want Dollar Devenmo you?

[1279] His wife listens to the show.

[1280] Yeah, Dollar...

[1281] Is it Dollar or Dollard?

[1282] Dollared.

[1283] Okay, yeah, dollar.

[1284] I cannot believe you remembered that.

[1285] You can't remember anyone's name.

[1286] I only remember it because so often I have to ask Kristen.

[1287] Was his name?

[1288] I always am trying to remember it because it's such a unique name.

[1289] It sure is.

[1290] Dollared.

[1291] Okay, just as the anus has a relatively high concentration of nerve endings.

[1292] Hold on, University of Michigan, ding ding ding.

[1293] Oh my God, not surprised.

[1294] Not surprise.

[1295] This curvy little Michiganders where there's sweetest date.

[1296] This is why we have sweetest dick.

[1297] Okay, 8 ,000.

[1298] We already know that.

[1299] There are two muscles that surround the anus.

[1300] These muscles are called the internal anal sphincter and the external anal sphincter.

[1301] Okay.

[1302] And the external sphincter muscle is said to be involuntary, meaning that we cannot control the muscle.

[1303] It keeps the canal closed most of the time.

[1304] The external sphincter is responsible for 15 to 20 % of control of stool leakage.

[1305] Oh.

[1306] This muscle is voluntary.

[1307] This was sexy, yeah.

[1308] It got unsexy.

[1309] Stool leakage kind of.

[1310] We do have control over this muscle.

[1311] These muscles work with the, wow, puberecta.

[1312] Puberstallus.

[1313] Ooh.

[1314] Oh, sounds like a dinosaur.

[1315] Muscle to close the anus to help prevent stool leakage when you cough, knees, exercise, etc. All right.

[1316] Wow.

[1317] So sexual.

[1318] Stool leakage.

[1319] Good job, Michigan.

[1320] I don't feel like I'm regularly fighting off stool leakage.

[1321] Well, that's because your spinker is working.

[1322] Okay.

[1323] Okay.

[1324] Don't get too coffee over there.

[1325] I'm not.

[1326] I'm not.

[1327] Okay.

[1328] A 2016 survey of 1 ,000 -ish, 11 to 16 -year -olds in Britain, of the roughly half who had seen pornography, 53 % of boys and 39 % of girls said it was realistic.

[1329] And in the recent Indiana University National Survey, only 1 in 6 boys and 1 in 4 girls believe that women in online porn were not actually experiencing pleasure.

[1330] as one suburban high school senior boy told me, this was a New York Times article.

[1331] I've never seen a girl in porn.

[1332] Was this from boys in sex?

[1333] We interviewed her.

[1334] Peggy Ornstein, no. We did a whole episode with Peggy Ornstein on a lot of the stuff.

[1335] It's worth going back and listening to if this was interesting to you.

[1336] If we didn't lose yet, stool leakage.

[1337] Yeah.

[1338] Okay, the boy said, I've never seen a girl in porn who doesn't look like she's having a good time.

[1339] It's not surprising then that some adolescents use porn as a how -to guide.

[1340] In a study that Rothman carried out in 2016 of 72 high schoolers ages 16 and 17, teenagers reported that porn was their primary source for information about sex, more than friends, siblings, schools, or parents.

[1341] So 53 % of boys and 39 % of girls said it was realistic.

[1342] I saw that stat on two different articles.

[1343] Again, not to bring it back to my original point, but that's the result of being puritanical.

[1344] The fact that parents can't talk to their kids, teachers can't talk to kids, no one can talk to kids about it because it's so shame -ridden and awkward that they're forced to learn it from there.

[1345] Yeah, I mean, I agree with that, but also this is saying more than friend.

[1346] So I think there is also just something specific about porn that can have an addictive quality and then just reshape all of your ideas of what sex should be.

[1347] For sure, but the fact that there's never been a class where they go, listen, pornography is out there.

[1348] it's actors having sex and quite often the females acting also these are all written and directed by men so this is a male fantasy you're watching like at least if that had been explained before they ever consumed it they wouldn't maybe say only one and six doesn't think they're having pleasure like they might still watch it I'm not saying people aren't gonna watch porn of course they're gonna but their their understanding of it might be different and the only thing we're really nervous about is what how what they're interpreting out of this yeah I agree We talked about how some people think watching porn constitutes cheating and was wondering if there are any statistics on how many people actually think that.

[1349] So there was a survey from you porn.

[1350] Of the over 24 ,000 women surveyed in a month, 32 % of women in relationships agreed that watching any type of porn without their significant other around was cheating.

[1351] That's about 3 and 10 women.

[1352] Yeah, I'm not in that group.

[1353] Yeah.

[1354] Do you think it's cheating?

[1355] No. I wish Kristen was watching porn.

[1356] I think everyone has to come up with their own rules within the relationship.

[1357] I'm not saying, but I personally would not care, no. Right.

[1358] I mean, look, I'm also, I also get that it brings up insecurities, of course.

[1359] Like, if you find out, you know, your partner's watching a bunch of porn to something that you don't do or don't look like or, you know, it can make you feel inadequate, I think.

[1360] Of course, and we talked about this exact thing in the episode with Emily, but.

[1361] You're missing the point that you're going to attack pornography as opposed to say, I feel less thing.

[1362] Yeah, exactly.

[1363] And so there's no productive end to you think porn's evil and I don't.

[1364] Yeah.

[1365] And also, I think it's a convenient thing to hang in on because anyone who thinks their partner is not attracted to other human beings is just very naive.

[1366] Anyone who doesn't understand that everyone has many interests and many sexual fantasies, they're just lying to themselves.

[1367] Because it's porn, it's like something specific to point out.

[1368] But if porn wasn't in the mix, the thing you're apparently worried about is still happening.

[1369] There's just no porn.

[1370] Right.

[1371] It just feels like a scapego.

[1372] I guess that's the easiest way for me to say it.

[1373] Yeah.

[1374] And you're right.

[1375] Some people have full on porn addiction as bad as drug addiction.

[1376] I've heard about people.

[1377] Dude, I saw it, you know, because I lane split.

[1378] on the motorcycle.

[1379] So I seen people's car all the time.

[1380] Yeah.

[1381] I told you this.

[1382] I saw a fucking guy at the stoplight in the left -hand turn lane watching on his phone porn.

[1383] Yeah.

[1384] My God, this guy can't even drive home without watching it.

[1385] Yeah.

[1386] Should I tell everyone my stance on porn?

[1387] Sure.

[1388] I'm not crazy interested in it.

[1389] Of all the things I've been addicted to, I certainly watched a good deal of porn in my life, but I watch it probably a few times a year.

[1390] Yeah.

[1391] And I can't buy into the notion that they're liking it.

[1392] It has to be a very specific porn for me to enjoy it.

[1393] Like, it's got to be almost a couple who I can really believe are into each other and into the thing.

[1394] Well, because they're not.

[1395] Yeah.

[1396] It's a painful experience most of the time.

[1397] But I'm actually, I want to see someone in a deep state of pleasure.

[1398] Right.

[1399] That's what is appealing to me. Yeah.

[1400] Yeah, it's complicated.

[1401] I feel lucky.

[1402] There's just been like a couple addiction things.

[1403] I've dodged the bullet on.

[1404] eating, gambling, and this.

[1405] And shopping.

[1406] I mean, yes and no. I mean, there's always a car in my head that I'm buying and redoing.

[1407] But I don't do it pathologically.

[1408] Yeah, you don't.

[1409] And you don't use shopping as a escape.

[1410] Correct.

[1411] Like I do often.

[1412] Yeah.

[1413] Happy Valentine's Day.

[1414] Happy three years.

[1415] Happy three years.

[1416] Happy sweetest day in October.

[1417] Can I tell you something?

[1418] What?

[1419] I think that we're celebrating three years because, We're best friends.

[1420] Yeah.

[1421] And I think that's a big part of this, the reason this thing works.

[1422] And I thank you.

[1423] I thank you.

[1424] And we have a connection to our arm cherries.

[1425] We do.

[1426] We've met thousands of them at this point.

[1427] They're all amazing.

[1428] I don't understand it.

[1429] There has yet to be a jerk.

[1430] There was a couple people that are too drunk, but like two of 40 ,000.

[1431] I don't even remember those.

[1432] There was one.

[1433] We had to change the format of the questions.

[1434] That was, but they were having fun.

[1435] Yeah, they weren't a jerk.

[1436] No. They were a little over -served.

[1437] It's hard to meet that many thousand people, and you like everyone.

[1438] We're really lucky.

[1439] Yeah.

[1440] Happy Valentine's Day.

[1441] Hope you're in line right now at a florist, pulling your hair out and terrified.

[1442] You're not going to do a good enough job.

[1443] Love you, bye.

[1444] Bye.

[1445] wherever you get your podcasts.

[1446] You can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[1447] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.