Bob Odenkirk

[0] Hi, my name is Bob Odenkirk, and I feel confused about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[1] Ring the bell, brand new shoes, walking blues, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends, we are going to be friends.

[2] Hello, and welcome to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[3] I do need a friend.

[4] Who doesn't?

[5] In these troubled times, we all need a friend.

[6] and I think I'm successful getting friendly with people on this podcast, but they soon tire of me, which is why my quest continues.

[7] I must find a lasting friend, and that's why by my assistant, and you're more than just an assistant, Sona, you're also an executive assistant.

[8] No, you're a friend.

[9] You and I have been through a lot together, and we've been through thick, we've been through thin, and we've been through that sort of medium stuff in the middle.

[10] Sona, thank you for being here.

[11] It's a pleasure to be here, Conan.

[12] I thank you for having me. Okay, this is getting weird.

[13] Thank you for having me. I don't know why I said that.

[14] Sona, I know that many of you are aware of this who listen regularly.

[15] Sona is, and I think people are aware because I have people who are fans of the podcast that I talk to all the time that shout out, tell Sona we wish her the best and we're happy for her.

[16] because they know that Sona is carrying two lives within her.

[17] Yes, two children.

[18] I'm bringing life into the world.

[19] Right.

[20] It is making me feel really powerful.

[21] I'm going to say that.

[22] Right.

[23] But, yeah.

[24] You know what?

[25] You are by far the most creative part of this podcast because clearly I'm just spewing babble and foolishness all the time.

[26] As people are listening right now, you are creating two human lives that are growing within you.

[27] Are you jealous?

[28] No. Okay.

[29] Can you imagine Conan pregnant?

[30] I know.

[31] I always wonder if guys are like, what's it like to be pregnant?

[32] No, I saw my wife go through it, and I'm in awe of what women do.

[33] I'm just in awe of that whole process, but there was never a second where I thought, oh, I wish I could be going through that.

[34] And you know what?

[35] Women know that.

[36] Yep.

[37] That, that, no. You'd be terrible pregnant.

[38] Okay, let's not get into it.

[39] Yes, I'm very narrow -hipped.

[40] those babies would have to come out through my chest.

[41] I do not complain a lot.

[42] Matt, I didn't get to, I want to make sure I bring Matt on board as I'm being savagely attacked.

[43] Matt, I think I would be a fantastic pregnant man. Oh no, you don't have birthing hips.

[44] You have birthing hair.

[45] Don't, I'm saying the child would have to, they'd have to create wide double doors in my chest for a child to walk out.

[46] What?

[47] I don't have birthing hips.

[48] And I also, yeah, be very, I'd be like, I'm not going to stop drinking, you know, I'd just be awful.

[49] I'm going to go on the bumper car ride.

[50] You really shouldn't.

[51] You're nine months pregnant.

[52] Fuck you.

[53] I like bumper car rides.

[54] We really don't recommend.

[55] I'm going to drink on the bumper car rides.

[56] Well, yeah, terrible.

[57] I'd be terrible.

[58] Hats off, of course, to anyone who goes through that incredible process that has created all human life, including my own.

[59] My lawyer crafted that sentence.

[60] It's just emailed to me. Yeah, but it is funny.

[61] When I walk around, I hear from so many people, and I love it.

[62] It's really sweet.

[63] They act like they're part of like a secret society because they've been listening to us.

[64] And so they reach out to me and they shout things.

[65] I hear a lot of catechai now and I love it every time I hear it.

[66] People say, catachy and I say, yes, God made her.

[67] And then they dash, they always run away.

[68] That's about as much of Conan in person anyone can take.

[69] But I'm hearing a lot about Sona and how people are wishing her well out there.

[70] That's very exciting.

[71] Does anybody yell cockaroo to you?

[72] I don't think.

[73] Oh, one person did yell cockaroo, but they hadn't heard the podcast.

[74] That's how he got pregnant.

[75] Yeah.

[76] That's how I'm with child.

[77] Yeah.

[78] Um, and, uh, fuck you, you're not funny is not one of my catchphrases.

[79] Oh, shit.

[80] I just want to put that out there.

[81] I don't know who thinks that's a catchphrase, but I'm hearing that a lot.

[82] And, uh, I've, we've gone, I keep combing through the past episodes.

[83] I can't find any reference.

[84] No, it is.

[85] It's a catchphrase.

[86] Are you sure?

[87] Oh, positive.

[88] What about the double pumping the middle finger?

[89] Fuck you, you're not funny.

[90] That might have been something they added, but the thing is a catchphrase for me. Really?

[91] Are you sure we said that?

[92] Because I can't.

[93] Yeah.

[94] Yeah, it was like back.

[95] Oh, how about this one?

[96] You aged out of comedy a long time ago.

[97] That was a catchphrase.

[98] Really?

[99] I can't believe.

[100] I hear that a lot.

[101] And I'm like, when did we start that catchphrase?

[102] Yeah.

[103] I remember it.

[104] Yeah.

[105] I don't know.

[106] Anyway, I'm glad we're bringing joy to somebody.

[107] That's the important thing.

[108] And how are you feeling, Sona?

[109] You feeling all right?

[110] Yeah, I'm cool.

[111] I mean, I don't know.

[112] Ask me in like a month because that's when shit gets real.

[113] Well, how many, when are you do?

[114] When is the due day?

[115] date.

[116] It's early July is my due date.

[117] That's a nice time.

[118] That's a nice time for a child to have a birthday.

[119] Fourth of July.

[120] Yeah.

[121] Yankee doodle dandy.

[122] I'm a Yankee doodle dandy.

[123] Yankee doodoo a die, a real live nephew of my uncle Sam.

[124] Born on the fourth of July.

[125] My mother and father are from Armenia.

[126] Okay.

[127] That's not the lyric.

[128] They live in a part of L .A. that Conan's not been to.

[129] Oh, I mean, Is this a song?

[130] Yankee doodle dandy's parents are immigrants?

[131] George M. Cohan's parents came from Armenia.

[132] And one of them went to summer camp at Chernobyl.

[133] Anyway, I digress.

[134] Let's let that go.

[135] You aged out a long time ago.

[136] Yeah, you aged out of comedy.

[137] I don't know why people keep showing that.

[138] That must be a popular catchphrase.

[139] Yeah.

[140] Also, your early good work is overrated.

[141] When did that become a catchphrase?

[142] What the fuck?

[143] I swear to God, I must have said that on some point.

[144] podcast, because bus drivers shout that.

[145] It might be great if I just misunderstood all of these as being friendly catchphrases.

[146] What a wonderful way to go through life.

[147] I know, it is, deluded.

[148] I'm a deluded fool.

[149] I am very excited about our guest today.

[150] This is a special guest for me because we have a very long association and I've watched many miraculous things happen.

[151] in this gentleman's career.

[152] So thrilled to talk to him.

[153] My guest, of course, is a writer, an actor who currently produces and stars in the acclaimed AMC series Better Call Saul.

[154] Well, now you can see him in the new movie, Nobody, which will be available on -demand Friday.

[155] You have to check out this movie.

[156] I'm not just saying this because he's my friend.

[157] It's a fantastic action film, and I never thought I'd be announcing that this fellow has an action film, but he does, and it's pitch perfect.

[158] Bob Oden Kirk.

[159] Welcome, Bob.

[160] You've tried to kill me. Yes.

[161] How many times have you said, I'm going to kill you, you'll die, no one will know.

[162] I know, but that was between us.

[163] You know, what's weird is that, I swear to God, people will think Bob is joking, but for years, And years and years, I would tell close friends of mine in a quiet moment, I'm going to kill you, and no one's ever going to know it was me. And I even left a note to that effect to, who did I do, Mike Myers.

[164] I left a note to Mike Myers in his desk when he was, had only been working there for a week that I would murder him and that no one would ever link it back to me. And I said, and you'll have no proof.

[165] And then I signed it, Conan O 'Brien.

[166] and to this day, he'll bring that up to me. Well, you always do it to me. You always do it to me when I'm on your talk show or when you had your talk show and they go to commercial.

[167] And then as soon as they go to commercial, you lean over and say, I'm going to kill you.

[168] No one will know.

[169] While wearing a microphone as the band plays on and on.

[170] Also used to mutter, murder, sweet mather.

[171] Yeah, murder, it was the ancient form of murderer.

[172] So it's Shakespearean.

[173] So now I just call people murderers, but I used to whisper to people and to you all the time, murder, murder, murder, sweet murder.

[174] I love it so much.

[175] But we...

[176] So, you know, you can understand my trepidation.

[177] Yes.

[178] Because I like you so much, and I find you so entertaining.

[179] I will, I'm sure I will die laughing, giggling.

[180] I'll probably die of...

[181] asphyxiation.

[182] Yes.

[183] Because I can't catch my breath because you're fucking making me laugh so hard.

[184] Doing your impersonation of the alien in the movie Ah.

[185] Oh my God.

[186] What was it?

[187] Oh, it was Will Gossett, Jr. Played a...

[188] Lou Gossett, please.

[189] Lou Gossett, Jr. Who did I say it was?

[190] He said it was Will Gossett.

[191] Oh, sorry.

[192] I thought it was...

[193] Dennis Quaid...

[194] Where Dennis Quaid and Lou Gossett, Jr. play aliens.

[195] Well, Lou Gossett Jr. is an alien.

[196] And Dennis Quaid is a Earth space man. Enemy mine.

[197] Thank you.

[198] And at the end, the big twist is there these two really cool people battling each other of the death.

[199] And then at the end, you find out that Lou Gossett Jr. is pregnant because he's an alien and on his planet, men can give.

[200] And he makes this very maternal face and holds his belly.

[201] And I think Dennis Quaid helps with the delivery.

[202] And you're like, no. Oh, my God.

[203] I, listen, there are, there are.

[204] there are things that stick in your head in life, obviously shocking and horrible things that we don't want to talk about because they don't even belong in therapy, frankly.

[205] Right.

[206] Your therapist would say, can you not bring that in here?

[207] Yeah, that's off limits for therapy, yeah.

[208] But there are things that make you laugh so hard.

[209] And, of course, I used to, when we worked together at Saturday Night Live, And we used to get dinner around 1 a .m. 12 .30 in the morning.

[210] And I would get my sugar rush around 1 .32.

[211] It was some, and I would get really giddy.

[212] And then you would just spin me like a top for the next hour.

[213] And Smigel would be trying to get writing done.

[214] And I'd be giggling my fucking head off.

[215] Like deep, intense, every cell of my body laughing.

[216] And that one where you were doing, You kept impersonating.

[217] Lou Gossett Jr. Lugat Jr. And going, I'm with child.

[218] I'm with child.

[219] I'm with child.

[220] I'm with child.

[221] Well, you know, there's so much to talk about, there's so much ground to cover Bob because I have had the good fortune of being able to talk to just about everybody.

[222] I'm hard pressed to think of anybody I know who I've known for a long time who's covered more ground in their career in an impressive way than you have.

[223] I'm just absolutely stunned and so happy for you.

[224] And so it makes me all the more excited to kind of go back to the Bob Odenkirk that I met way back in the winter, February of 1988, and go on this crazy journey where we take you to now, where just last night I watched your movie, Nobody, and you're a fucking...

[225] action hero star and you're fantastic.

[226] And at this point, I'm not surprised by anything anymore.

[227] If I read tomorrow that you won a Nobel Prize because you came up with a new way to fight autoimmune diseases, I'd be like, yeah, that's about on, that's, that's on par with everything else kind of in all the other ways that Bob has surprised me, that would, that would be on par.

[228] And I know that news is coming.

[229] But I have such a. clear a memory of, I think it's February of 1988, it's a very cold winter.

[230] We came to Saturday Night Live, but we were all of the same age, and in fact, people lumped us together and called us the nerds.

[231] Tom Hanks had a nicer, I think that's what Jan Hooks called us.

[232] Didn't Nora Dunn call it like the fucking kindergarten or something?

[233] Yeah, yeah.

[234] Noradun wasn't thrilled with us.

[235] Well, we were very immature in our, in every way.

[236] Yes, we were immature.

[237] And we loved it.

[238] Yeah, we were immature cackling idiots and we didn't know how to dress and we didn't know where to eat.

[239] We barely knew how to eat.

[240] We didn't know how to eat.

[241] We didn't know where the food went.

[242] Oh, Conan, Conan, Conan, Conan.

[243] Please be there for me. Do you remember what we did to the wall at Saturday Night Live with the darts?

[244] I'm having a hard time remember.

[245] Okay, okay.

[246] hold up.

[247] This is huge.

[248] I can't believe I kept my job there after we did this, but I wouldn't have been surprised if at least two of us had been fired.

[249] Some company sent us these cush balls.

[250] They were soft gummy balls that were about the size of a baseball.

[251] And they had a netting, a nylon netting around them.

[252] And one of, and of course, these companies, you know, they send things to shows and they hope that your show will use it?

[253] Like, the ball's fun.

[254] Saturday Night Live's funny.

[255] Maybe they'll make a sketch about our fucking dumb product and talk about how great what.

[256] They've never done that, but maybe they'll change their tune.

[257] And they set a box of these and we open the box because no one else is going to open it.

[258] And we take out the balls.

[259] And of course, like good, you know, normal men, we cut the nylon skins off these balls.

[260] and then inside is this tacky, gummy ball that's about the size of a baseball.

[261] And one of us throws that ball at the giant white wall in, it's probably 60 feet long.

[262] Yeah.

[263] In Rockefeller Center, yeah.

[264] In Rockefeller Center, great, famous old building, iconic building, yeah.

[265] Stone by stone by Rockefeller himself.

[266] That's what he's known.

[267] Stone by stone.

[268] He was a very good craftsman.

[269] People don't know that.

[270] Leave me alone.

[271] You're rich, sir.

[272] You're rich.

[273] Shut up.

[274] I'm building.

[275] I've got to build this myself.

[276] And we, one of us, we cut the skins off that's a little tacky.

[277] We throw the ball against the wall from across the room.

[278] It splats.

[279] Then it sucks back into shape and slowly, slowly, slowly, sticcally rolls down the wall.

[280] And then somebody goes, this is.

[281] is fun.

[282] Wait a second, don't we have these darts right here?

[283] You throw the ball at the wall, have it go splat.

[284] I'll throw darts at it as it slowly sticky walks down the wall.

[285] And try to hit it as it makes its way down.

[286] We'll try to hit it and stick it to the wall or we'll try to throw two darts and trap it on the wall.

[287] So we did this.

[288] If you can picture it, please, I hope I've done a good job of describing what we're doing.

[289] So all night long, all night long.

[290] We're throwing the sticky balls at the wall, splatting them.

[291] They slowly rolled down and we're throwing darts at the wall to hit the ball as it moves.

[292] It was so much fun.

[293] The best thing ever.

[294] It was great.

[295] But, of course, we're destroying the wall.

[296] Yeah.

[297] I mean, there's hundreds, hundreds of holes in the wall when people show up in the morning.

[298] And they just had to replace the fucking wall.

[299] They replaced it.

[300] I remember very clearly.

[301] Lauren Michaels came in and saw it, and he was like, well, I guess I should get to work.

[302] And Lorne is very good at plastering and repairing.

[303] Do you remember this, Bob?

[304] Yes.

[305] And Lorne used to do all the repairs himself at Serenet Live, and I think still does to this day.

[306] Yeah.

[307] And he mixed up, he mixed up this plaster.

[308] And he put on these overalls.

[309] And people said, hey, you should fire Bob and Conan.

[310] You know, this is part of their process.

[311] please, I've got holes to fill.

[312] And then he would work for hours repairing the damage we had done.

[313] I think he came in and he said, ah, for the days of cocaine.

[314] Yes, probably.

[315] It's funny because Lorne, obviously, the original Cernet Live cast, it was the 70s, and people were doing Coke and, you know, famously, that was the environment.

[316] And then our generation came along later, And all of us, you, me, Robert Smigel, Greg Daniels, we didn't do anything.

[317] We didn't smoke.

[318] We didn't do drugs.

[319] We didn't drink.

[320] We were guys that worried about our cholesterol.

[321] And I think that was like this whole different era of Saturday Night Live Writer.

[322] And it's probably gone back and forth a million times.

[323] But I met you and you and I, we both loved being as silly and weird as we possibly could be.

[324] And we would cackle like idiots.

[325] And think of the wonderful sketches we didn't get out of all that.

[326] I know.

[327] We should have been working.

[328] No work was done.

[329] You know, we used to, I don't know, people like hearing about S &L.

[330] It's such a strange crucible of pressure and, uh, yes, yes, personality.

[331] And, uh, so I guess we can go on about it.

[332] But, um, nothing good was written between 2 a .m. and 9 a .m. No. I don't think.

[333] Smygel maybe could.

[334] Yeah, Smigel was, you know, is that kind of genius who he could look like he was asleep.

[335] And he'd be resting his head on a stage deli bag and his hand would be just quivering on a page.

[336] And then in the morning, someone could type it.

[337] And it would be a funny sketch.

[338] But you and I, if neither one of us had an idea, to this day, I don't know a depth of soulless depression like that.

[339] You know, in the course of all that, I learned so much.

[340] I learned so much from just osmosis.

[341] I learned so much as well.

[342] I probably learned more from the pain than the joy, but I learned a lot.

[343] And then flash forward to, we weren't there that long when there was a writer's strike.

[344] And you and Robert had the idea, well, we can't work at SNL right now, so let's put together a show in Chicago.

[345] And so you guys invited me, you found me a place to live.

[346] You found me an apartment, and you said, my friend has this place for you.

[347] He has an apartment and he has a really nice room for you.

[348] And his name is, do you remember?

[349] Jeff Garland.

[350] Jeff Garland.

[351] You said his name is Jeff Garland.

[352] And I said, great.

[353] So I drove all the way from L .A. to Chicago in a 1973 Plymouth Valiant.

[354] And I roll in and I get to the address and I meet the famous Jeff Garland, who's not famous at the time.

[355] And he's like, come on in, Butterfield.

[356] cup come in putting pop come in my little chickadee and he walks me up like nine flights of steps and he shows me my room which has no window and no air conditioning and it was the summer of 88 which is on it still one of the hottest look it up look it up folks it's the hottest summer still even with global warming it was like it was impossible yeah and I lived in this little Guantanamo cell, and, but we made this show, and I had so much fun.

[357] Yeah.

[358] I had more fun.

[359] I mean, I had a lot of fun doing the show, and you were hilarious in the show.

[360] I remember you and I going on like a double date with somebody once, and you and I just did riffs and weird characters the whole time, and the women were completely unimpressed with us.

[361] Well, they're sorry now, I bet.

[362] Oh, my God.

[363] I bet they're not.

[364] They are not sorry.

[365] They are not.

[366] Trust me. Trust me. I was on that date.

[367] I don't care how much they make.

[368] I don't care what movies they're in.

[369] It doesn't matter.

[370] It's not worth it.

[371] No, no. If they are both meth addicts, they're like, boy, did we dodge a bullet.

[372] Conan, you've somehow found a way.

[373] And I just think it's the most wonderful thing.

[374] People talk about you and your success, and they've talked to me about it for years.

[375] And for me, the greatest.

[376] joy was that the way you would make me laugh at 2 a .m. writing, there was never a sense, not would I ever think that somehow you could show that to the world and they would also find it funny and you'd get to do it.

[377] So the fact that you, over, you know, the course of a long time and a hell of a lot of hard work, were able to become, to just show that to people and and get, you know, provoke the same kind of reaction from people that you got from me was just, it's just insane.

[378] It's just the best, the best thing ever.

[379] If I could shine a light on anything in this interview, it would be you didn't become a really funny, talented person.

[380] That's the guy I met in February of 1988.

[381] I remember everything so clearly.

[382] You had one outfit, a leather jacket with some fringe around it, and you had a scarf, and you had very specific glasses and some jeans, and that was it.

[383] You didn't even own a shirt.

[384] And I heard that you were doing a one -man show in Chicago, and I wasn't performing at the time, and I went, and I saw your one -man show, and it was called Half My Face is a Clown.

[385] And I went and watched that show, show.

[386] I laughed like a crazy chimpanzee the whole time.

[387] You had so many great set pieces in half my faces and clown.

[388] Yeah, I did that show with my friend Tom Giannis.

[389] And I had seen Eric Bogosian years before.

[390] Eric Bogosian is a theater actor and a film actor.

[391] And they allow him to act anywhere he wants.

[392] Yeah.

[393] And his image shows up on film and TV.

[394] But he's in that he's actually in, he's great.

[395] In the Sandler movie, what was that?

[396] Yes, yes, yes.

[397] He was great in uncut gems.

[398] And then we had pieces that Tom and I wrote that were a story.

[399] We had stuff that was more absurdist.

[400] This thing I did where I was, oh, God.

[401] I remember very well so I can spout off some things.

[402] I don't know which one you're thinking of.

[403] I'm thinking of the guy who's just saying, Chicago, city of big shoulders, the windy city.

[404] And then he starts saying things that are like, you've never heard before.

[405] No one's ever called Chicago that.

[406] The witch's titty.

[407] The city of mustard.

[408] You know, like, what?

[409] No, no one's ever said that.

[410] Slow down.

[411] Also, here's one of my favorites.

[412] This one was really short.

[413] This doesn't qualify as just as a dumb blackout.

[414] It was a jazz guy with like a goatee and a really stark lighting.

[415] And I go, I remember back when Charlie Parker was here blowing his horn and, and, he was such a good horned.

[416] He just had to clear his voice, that's all.

[417] Well, I remember, you did a thing, you did, people used to be very highfalutin about improv.

[418] Like, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to perform improv now and create something in front of your eyes.

[419] And so you and I were both, we love anything that made fun of, pretentiousness, I think.

[420] That was something that I think you and I both gravitated towards.

[421] You did this piece where you said, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to reach into this box.

[422] It's filled with hats that everyone's put in.

[423] I don't know what these hats are, but as I put them on, I will become that character instantly.

[424] And then you took out and the first thing you pick out is this red baseball cap, and you put it on and you screw it to the side, so the lid's coming to the side and you go like, put it in here, pitcher!

[425] You know, give me some mustard.

[426] Come on.

[427] pitch it.

[428] Yeah, pitch that ball.

[429] Yeah, yeah.

[430] I'm a baseball player.

[431] And then you'd take the cap off and everyone would applaud and you'd throw the cap aside and then reach in for a new cap.

[432] You'd take out and it would be another baseball cap.

[433] And you would put it on.

[434] And then you'd be like, eh, eh, eh, zip it in here.

[435] Zip it in here.

[436] Come on, throw that ball.

[437] Batter up, batter up.

[438] You were suddenly just playing a different position and it was the worst improv.

[439] And then the third hat is a baseball hat.

[440] Same one thing.

[441] Now he's a fielder.

[442] And then the fourth hat is a fireman's helmet.

[443] Yes, yes.

[444] And he's utterly confused.

[445] He doesn't know what to do.

[446] I look at the hat.

[447] I'm totally at a loss.

[448] I throw it away.

[449] And I reach in and there's another baseball game.

[450] And I'm so relieved that I know I forget how it ends.

[451] And then, yeah, you go right back to you put it in here, pitcher, give it some mustard.

[452] And then you also had a piece where you're a guy that gets picked up for like a, I mean, for nothing.

[453] Oh, yeah, yeah, it's a story.

[454] It's a story.

[455] It was a story.

[456] Tons of credit to my friend Tom Giannis, because Tom was just the master of this kind of thing, is the master of it.

[457] But you told the story about it.

[458] Yeah, it's a guy who gets thrown in jail for a misdemeanor.

[459] And you go through, you're narrating it and you go through all of the ups and downs that say, you know, a character in the Shawshank Redemption.

[460] Shawshank Redemption would go through.

[461] You go through all of those ups and downs, but it's clear that the guy is only in jail for about 45 minutes.

[462] And so it's, you know, you get thrown in and at first you did, and then you're defiant and you're like, I decided.

[463] And then finally you said this thing that's always stuck with me. It was the way you performed it too because it got stuck in my brain, but I was in the audience and you went, but then I decided, you know, because you're raising cane and you're banging your cup against the, and it's only making things worse.

[464] And you said, then I decided to get smart.

[465] I was going to wise up.

[466] I was going to get smart.

[467] I was going to be a, and you put your hands together in a prayer position, you went, I was going to be a good boy.

[468] And I don't know, that went into my head like an ice dagger.

[469] And I was laughing.

[470] And I, to this day, if someone's, I mean, for the last 35 years, if anybody comes up to me and says, hey, could you, or if my wife says, you know, maybe you could tone it down a bit or maybe, and I always put my hands together in a prayer position and say, don't worry, I'm going to be a good boy.

[471] Conan, I had no idea that that show resonated with you at all.

[472] Oh, yes.

[473] I would never have imagined that.

[474] I remember thinking Bob's doing exactly the thing that we always told each other we were going to do, and Bob's doing it.

[475] I felt like someone had taken an, you know, an electric cable and shoved it, I'm going to just say, into my ass, into my asshole.

[476] Oh, God.

[477] It's the best place to shove anything.

[478] Yeah, yeah.

[479] And then, but I mean, repeat it over and over again.

[480] And it was erotic.

[481] And I was like, what is this?

[482] Tonin, that's so cool that that inspired you, you know, and I imagine it must have been hard for you.

[483] You know, I never knew you wanted to perform as much as you did.

[484] When you first did the late show, The thing that impressed me the most was when I came to see you, I showed up.

[485] You had me on staff for the first year, which, thank you for that.

[486] You were one of the original, I have a picture that I cherish of the original writing staff.

[487] The hell of a group.

[488] It was a really great writing group and you're there with us.

[489] It's a very small writing staff.

[490] We were all wanting to make it as weird and fun and silly as possible.

[491] and you were there pushing hard in that direction because you also believe like this has to be aggressively weird and fun and it has to be what we always wanted what we thought comedy should be on television and you played characters early on which probably some people.

[492] You had this character that kept recurring called the nicknameer who would come in and who would have a nickname for everybody.

[493] What a goof I was.

[494] Yes.

[495] Terrible nicknames, just an idiot.

[496] Terrible in what he does.

[497] But, you know, he had a bodysuit on, leggings or whatever.

[498] Anybody who puts on a body suit is automatically a superhero.

[499] So you were the nicknamer, and you would come in and nickname, and you were great.

[500] You were pushing as hard as anybody to make sure that we were true to the idea of what we wanted to do.

[501] and then flash forward not too long, you do Mr. Show.

[502] Ben Stiller's show first, but yeah.

[503] Ben Stiller, yes, I'm sorry.

[504] You did Ben Stiller Show first.

[505] I have the order slightly wrong.

[506] You did Ben Stiller Show first where you did one of my favorite sketches of all time.

[507] You did a sketch where it was a Lassie parody, but instead of Lassie, you're Charles Manson.

[508] And Charles Manson had done a bunch of interviews like in the 90s where he's like, take this, Daddy -o.

[509] I'm coming at you, knife style, see?

[510] And it's going to be sybiddy pop.

[511] There's going to be blood on the walls when this cracker hits the barrel.

[512] He would do these crazy interviews with Geraldo Rivera.

[513] And so you just played this lovable kind of scruffy Charles Manson and then the boy would get stuck in the well and you would go running home and you had the long hair and the craziness.

[514] You'd be, you'd kind of go loping home like a crazy Manson.

[515] And then the parents would be like, what is it?

[516] What is it, Charles Man?

[517] What is it?

[518] What is it?

[519] And you'd be like, take this.

[520] The inside is outside.

[521] You think you see me?

[522] You can't see me?

[523] I'm invisible.

[524] Except for myself.

[525] That's what, Jack, and you can take that to the bank and they go, Bobby's in a well.

[526] And then you led them and at the end they're all like, boy, we're so glad you're safe, Bobby.

[527] And you'd be like, and Bobby, who I think was Andy Dick, was like, well, I wouldn't be if I weren't for Charles Smith.

[528] And he's pinning you.

[529] And at the end, you're still saying, like, I'll cut you, Jack.

[530] You won't see what's coming my way.

[531] So.

[532] Well, I don't know where that shit comes from, but that was a kind of a, you know, that show, the Ben Stiller show, that was a weird.

[533] Ben started it with Judd.

[534] And they had this, I don't think it was clearly thought out.

[535] But if you looked at it, which I did, as I tried to analyze what they were.

[536] wanting us to write and make, it was this mash -up thing of mashing up one popular kind of, whatever it is, a feature, a TV show with some zeitgeisty thing or maybe just a different pop culture thing, you know?

[537] So it was like marrying up two pop culture things in a way that somehow would make this comic logic and be silly to watch and fun.

[538] and we did a couple of that Manson Lassie though was probably the most both absurdist and out there but also makes sense somehow like somehow yeah okay that's the dog barking and he's telling them something yes it makes as much sense as Lassie running and telling people as a collie running and telling people Bobby's trapped in well and them understanding which is something people accepted in the 1950s and 60s as, yeah, that could happen.

[539] It makes as much sense to have a marauding Manson telling, speaking absolute gibberish.

[540] Yeah, when a real dog comes to you to pat you and tell you, they're only telling you there's a thing.

[541] That's it.

[542] Yep.

[543] That's it.

[544] All you can say is look at the dog and go, what?

[545] What is it?

[546] There's a thing?

[547] That's as specific as they can get.

[548] There's a noise, a thing while that walk by that you want, you need to take a shit, something.

[549] Right, right.

[550] There's no specifics to it.

[551] You know, I did talk to Sandler about, we ran into each other, and he brought up little women, and we both at the same time, it was like, Oden Kirkson!

[552] And we both had the same response, which is, no one else had this response, by the way, because you did a really good job, but because I know you as a guy that would put on whiskers and say, well, hello to you, And in an ironic way, when you came into the movie, I was like, I couldn't not see you as that Bob.

[553] Fortunately for you, only me, Sandler, and about five other people cared about that.

[554] Everyone else was like, no, he did a great job in the movie.

[555] We were just like, oh my God, Bob comes in and goes like, where my little pumpkins gather around?

[556] That fucker, he took me out of little women.

[557] I'm sorry, but I know what you mean.

[558] I know exactly what you mean, but I'm not going to tell anyone.

[559] I'm just going to take the roll and try to sell it, try to do it.

[560] Because I remember you and me once, we spent a day walking around Springfield, Illinois, because I'm a Lincoln fan, and you were into it too.

[561] And I pretended to be Lincoln, and you pretended to be his law partner.

[562] And his law partner had long sideburns.

[563] And so you were walking around going, I tell you, Abe, we've got to work on the law firm.

[564] And I'd be like, well, it puts me in mind of a story.

[565] We spent the whole day walking around doing that.

[566] And when you walked in on little women, you were like, Oh, children.

[567] It's that goofy fucker that walked around Springfield with me. And now he's in one of the biggest most credible movies of the year.

[568] So I blame you for that.

[569] That's your fault.

[570] It's funny when you talk about your career in show business, it's very easy to interpret your various efforts as a string of successes.

[571] Yeah.

[572] But it's easy to forget and not mention all the dead ends.

[573] and there are many, many, many dead ends that also came, arose from the same, you know, brain and the same thought processes that maybe generated a few things that worked.

[574] And I'm so thankful that nobody has made so many people happy and it's played really around the world.

[575] It's, I credit it mostly to the writer Derek Kolstad and the director, Ilya, Nysheller, because the two guys who absolutely love and live for action films and for movies and for the movie experience.

[576] And they took this pretty small amount of money relatively and crafted this really rewarding, really crowd -pleasing action film.

[577] I think what makes your current achievement so impressive to me is you have as good a comedy credentials as anybody on the planet between all the work that you've done over the years, even before you got to be famous.

[578] And then all the work you did with, you know, Ben Stiller's show and then Mr. Show, and then you take this turn where you get on Breaking Bad and you're terrific and memorable.

[579] And I remember at the time thinking, this is fantastic and this is great that you've got this character, Jimmy McGill, well, Saul.

[580] You know, we later find out Jimmy McGill.

[581] but at the time I thought this is fascinating because Bob's really good at this and he's a good actor and he's part of this show that's going to be part of the zeitgeist and I remembered thinking this will be like some cul -de -sac and then Bob will get back to doing comedy and instead you take this thing and I think Better Call Saul it's absolutely an incredible achievement and I won't forget that so then I almost get used to well, okay, this is Bob now.

[582] Bob has morphed into one of the most respected television actors in the world.

[583] Okay, I'm going to have to accept that now.

[584] And then I remembered about, this is before COVID, like, easily a year and a half ago, you said, hey, Conan, I want to show you something.

[585] And I'm like, okay, I didn't know what you were going to show me. And you showed me a quick trailer that was a rough cut for nobody.

[586] And my eyeballs melted because I couldn't.

[587] believe it's almost not fair.

[588] It's not fair to keep shape -shifting the way you're shape -shifting because I'm still impressed with, you know, half my face is a clown show you did in 1990, and I'm still catching, and how much that inspired me. And now you're saying, oh, I want to show you something where basically I'm Jackie Chan, and you're showing it to me, and it is not just, oh, that's credible.

[589] It's fucking top -knott.

[590] action.

[591] It's fantastic.

[592] And I thought, well, what is that?

[593] Is that a joke you're playing on me?

[594] Did you team up with some special effects?

[595] People, are you screwing with me?

[596] So I almost forgot about it, especially during COVID.

[597] Then I pass a movie poster that says nobody, and it's your face being pummeled, which is a dream I've had many times over the years.

[598] Me too.

[599] And so I see the movie, and I'm trying to equate the guy who's in this movie.

[600] who's doing these fight scenes with the guy I met in 1988, and I'm telling everybody out there it is a testament to what a human being can do with hard work, obviously talent, and just determination.

[601] I defy anybody to look at that career arc and say that something can't be done.

[602] It's fantastic.

[603] Nobody is just, yeah, and it's killing it.

[604] I really wanted to scare the shit out of myself into doing a good job.

[605] because I had no choice.

[606] I better fucking sell this fucking thing.

[607] And it better be as good as anything.

[608] Or I just look like an asshole who thinks that this is easy and doesn't have respect for this genre and this form that people love.

[609] Here's one of the things that I think makes this movie quite different in this genre is that I'm used to seeing people who are martial artists or professionally buff.

[610] playing accountants, playing paper pushers.

[611] And then they get pushed too far.

[612] And so you've all seen the movie where, I can't tell you how many times I've watched a movie where someone akin to The Rock is, you know, he's working at H &R Block as an accountant, and people are teasing him.

[613] And you're just sitting there in the movie theater saying, all right, well, at some point, why doesn't he use the fact that he's this six -foot -six a dynamo who's packed with muscles and clearly works out nine hours a day and why doesn't he use that and he's wearing this tight little suit and then finally he snaps and he can't take it anymore.

[614] I think what works so well about this, Bob, is that you are playing this person that you know.

[615] You know what it's like to be the underdog.

[616] You spent part of your, a chunk of your career as the underdog, as we all did.

[617] And I just really saw this movie in a way, and I think it's what really adds to the performance is you are, in the beginning of the movie, you are someone, your character, Hutch is put upon downtrodden, things aren't going his way, and then when you start to emerge, it's not a moment where you suddenly start kicking ass.

[618] It's very believable.

[619] You have these skills that are locked within you, but it's tough.

[620] And the first scene or two, you get the shit kicked out of you, but you see you just, you just, get back up.

[621] There's a scene I'm thinking of on a bus.

[622] I don't want to give anything away, but you really get badly beaten, but then you get up and you go back in, and throughout the movie, you see your confidence grow.

[623] And when the movie was over, I thought, this resonates for me in a way that I hope you appreciate, Bob.

[624] It almost felt like, as someone like myself who's watched you, there is an arc that's not dissimilar.

[625] Like, you always had these abilities and challenges face you and then you literally kicked ass.

[626] And in this case, the ass is not the Russian mob.

[627] It's show business, which is we all know run by the Russian mob.

[628] But I think that's what made this movie different from, oh, look, it's Jean -Claude Van Damme and he's a ballet teacher and he's very meek and mild.

[629] And oh, look, he's suddenly kicking ass.

[630] And this is very different from that.

[631] This is a very There's a couple of things I thought I could add to contribute to this genre.

[632] One was to sell that thing in a way that you buy as opposed to not buying the version of this guy should not get in a fight and he's going to get his ass kicked if he does.

[633] And then I am genuinely surprised that he genuinely seems to have these skills.

[634] But also, even in the course of the fighting, even in the declarations that the character makes, this great line on the bus, which is in the trailer, so it's no spoiler, I'm going to fuck you up, which, by the way, was a monologue.

[635] It was a page and a half long monologue.

[636] And the closer we got to shooting, the more I was like, I don't, this thing scares me. I don't think people are going to sit still for this monologue.

[637] But even within that, I wanted to say it in such a way that hopefully if you look in my eyes, this guy isn't sure.

[638] He's going to fuck you up.

[639] Even he is not sure about his grand, you know, action star declaration.

[640] He's a little scared.

[641] You are getting hurt.

[642] You're afraid.

[643] You're, and you're up against incredible odds.

[644] And yes, there are moments that are just, you know, obviously beautiful action ballet.

[645] But to me, it's the stakes are high because you are a guy that really has a real family, loves them.

[646] And you're also getting hurt.

[647] You get hurt in the first scene.

[648] You get hurt throughout the movie.

[649] you could easily die at any second, which makes, you know, which makes me feel like I'm invested.

[650] Then I'm invested.

[651] And you know, I actually, that was a little hard to modulate because it's still a movie and it's fantastical and the audience wants to believe that you're special because that's part of the fun is that you're this vessel for their feelings of overcoming impossible odds and exerting your, rage in a way that is not allowed in real life and would not go well in real life, but it's a movie.

[652] So you get to do it.

[653] And then I just have to address the bigger thing, which is in the course of all this preparation and all the years I trained, some part of me just smiled at the thought that if I pull this off, people like Conan O 'Brien and Jeff Garland and people like my friends like that are just gonna shit no it's no and I'll I'll tell you I that that was my point the only thing that would have been really hard is that my wife Naomi who's so wonderful and who I love so much and as such a developed sense of storytelling and character and comedy because she's a manager of of wonderful talent she struggled with me doing an action movie you know, and the idea of the violence of it.

[654] And if I hadn't succeeded in this, that would have been the truly hard thing is she would have been right.

[655] God damn it.

[656] Your greatest triumph, as we can all understand, is proving your wife wrong.

[657] There's a hint.

[658] I mean, I'm hoping there are sequels.

[659] I'm also hoping if there is a sequel, you'll find a role for an old friend with maybe a little makeup I could not look like myself and I'd like to play a guy who's a sexual dynamo.

[660] Okay, will you start training for that?

[661] Yes, I will.

[662] Yes, I will.

[663] I'm taking the medication now.

[664] Hey, Bob, I've kept you way too long but of all the interviews I've done, this is the one I've been, I think this is one of my favorites because I'm so delighted for you and so impressed with what you've pulled off.

[665] And I'm going to end with a movie plug because you're going to really love it.

[666] Nobody.

[667] Just, it's time.

[668] The pandemic is ending.

[669] It's time for just a movie that you're going to flat out enjoy.

[670] And I think this is the movie.

[671] So check it out.

[672] Thanks, buddy.

[673] And be a good boy.

[674] Thanks, Conan.

[675] I'm sorry, I'm laughing.

[676] Why'd you laugh as you asked it?

[677] It's a legitimate question.

[678] I couldn't even get through the question.

[679] Well, no, I mean, because first of all, I think what Bob has done for people like me is he's opened a door, which is Bob was very, no, seriously, Bob was very established in comedy, and then he went this other way, and it's a huge hit, and he's a big success.

[680] I feel like people are going to come calling now, because as you can attest, Matt and Sona, I take very good care.

[681] of my body.

[682] I'm cut like a diamond.

[683] I think you could play Plastic Man. Well, you know what is funny?

[684] I was thinking, I would love to be in an action movie and play it completely seriously.

[685] And I'm just putting this idea out there if there are any producers or financiers, anything like anyone.

[686] I have very long legs.

[687] So I'd like to play an action star whose thing is that my lower half, like literally from the waist down, my legs are very long and they can do amazing things and they whip around they're almost like whips and they're doing all these incredible and and and they're zipping around and flying around and knocking bad guys out but from the waist up I'm completely immobile and I show very little emotion you're like an upside down helicopter yeah I'm like an upside down helicopter and so so I'm a guy who not unlike Bob I've got this nine to five life and women don't really pay attention to me and bullies always are sort of put upon and people tease me and I put up with it and then finally there's this gang and they're giving me a hard time and I snap and you see me take my arms and hold on to either side of those grab bars that they have on the subway I hold on so that I secure my upper body I don't my face doesn't move and then you hear a whee whee whee whee whee and my lower body starts whipping around and you see bad guys flying left and right and yeah and then later on the police show up and the coroner's like they've all been killed with size 12 feet you kill them all oh they're all dead no they're dead and then it comes out they weren't even threatening me that much they were trying to ask me directions oh you're just a murderer I'm just a guy who thought I'm overly sensitive a leg murderer it turns out it was a bunch of 17 year olds just looking for directions to the metropolitan museum of art and I was like, I can take no more.

[688] And I grab onto the grab rails and whee!

[689] Whing!

[690] And my legs just start spinning at like 180 miles an hour in every different direction.

[691] They're like egg beaters.

[692] And the kids are just massacred.

[693] And, uh...

[694] Oh my God.

[695] Yeah.

[696] It's just brutal and gruesome.

[697] Yeah, what's this movie called?

[698] Whirligig.

[699] What?

[700] It's the whirligig.

[701] This is an awful action movie.

[702] This is the best, oh, someone's jealous that I have my franchise and you haven't thought of yours.

[703] Oh, yeah.

[704] The leg killer, that's a great franchise.

[705] Well, it's just from the waist down, he's your worst nightmare.

[706] From the waist up, not much is happening, you know?

[707] But, um.

[708] Bank teller from the top, paylay from the bottom.

[709] Why can't this be?

[710] You guys know that I am, when I put my mind to something, I can do it.

[711] Much like Bob Odenkirk, I don't see any reason why I can't be Whirley Gig, the new action star.

[712] I'd pay top dollar to see that movie.

[713] I really would.

[714] What is top dollar to you?

[715] That's still way below market rates, though.

[716] It's literally a dollar.

[717] When you say top dollar, it's not the price of a ticket right now.

[718] It's the top one in my wallet.

[719] It's the top dollar, the dollar on the top of your stack of bills.

[720] Yeah, that's about right.

[721] No one's going to want to see Worla gig.

[722] I love the twist where they're not even threatening you.

[723] They're just...

[724] No, I'm never threatened.

[725] Most of the people I kill in the movie are younger and older people asking for directions or trying to tell me, I think that's your iPhone, and you should put it back in your pocket.

[726] You might lose it, being kind of helpful.

[727] And then I go, oh, we!

[728] And my legs start spinning.

[729] It's a blur of long, lanky Irish legs.

[730] And there's part of the movie where I wear short shorts.

[731] I'm playing basketball and I'm wearing an NBA uniform that I've kept in the closet since the 80s.

[732] And so it's the NBA uniform of 1983 and I've got really short shorts.

[733] And I have these long, pale, freckled legs that are super long.

[734] And I'm on a basketball court just shooting hoops.

[735] And once again, a bunch of younger people come over.

[736] and I feel threatened, but they're basically just there to say, hey, you're shooting on a hoop on a public court that has no net.

[737] Just to be helpful, there's one with a net.

[738] Oh, man. That's on the other side of the park.

[739] It's a three -minute walk from here.

[740] And we're just trying to be helpful and tell you, and I say, I can stand no more.

[741] And my white freckled legs just start zipping all over the place in my short shorts.

[742] While, by the way, from the top up, I'm immobile.

[743] And I'm actually preparing, I'm opening up one of those puddings that while I'm killing everybody, I'm opening one of those puddings that has a little seal top and I'm eating the pudding and my top is completely immobile.

[744] And then you cut two waist down and it's just two spam colored bare legs flailing a lawn around like those Toro lawnmowers that whip, that just whip furiously and edge a lawn.

[745] That's what's happening below.

[746] And kids who are being helpful or being obliterated.

[747] This actually makes sense because you're Irish and it's like Irish dancing because isn't the legend that they couldn't be seen dancing so they had to be still from the top up and they looked fine through the window but from the bottom down they were dancing and that's your origin.

[748] Is that why Irish people did?

[749] I didn't know that.

[750] I don't know if that's I thought it's just because we suck.

[751] I didn't know it was for any kind of reason.

[752] That's what I heard.

[753] It's probably a myth but but that's your origin story like your parents forced you to do this as a kid.

[754] As someone who's 100 % Irish, our torsos don't move.

[755] So anyone who, anyone who's telling you, oh, no, that was just a way to deceive the British soldiers on patrol by, no, no, our torsos don't move.

[756] We made that up.

[757] I find it disturbing that you're always beating up and killing younger people.

[758] And then earlier, you said they're either older or younger.

[759] So it's like, no one who's a match for you.

[760] Roligig is a coward.

[761] Wurley gig doesn't want to fight anybody who might quickly grab his legs or hit him in the face.

[762] So it's usually got to be people, and it can't be anyone who really threatens me because they'll be prepared to fight.

[763] It's got to be people.

[764] We're in a gig just overreacts to people that are usually asking for directions to a museum or pointing out that, oh, you just dropped $2 ,000 accidentally came out of your pocket.

[765] I think those are yours you might want to pick them up.

[766] And that's the sound that strikes fear into people's hearts, is when my egg -beater legs whip into action.

[767] Coming.

[768] Fall 2022.

[769] Yeah.

[770] Yes, Worla gig starring Conan O 'Brien Fall 2022.

[771] Don't even bother being there because it's coming to you.

[772] What?

[773] What?

[774] I don't know.

[775] It's because it's straight to home video.

[776] Don't even bother going to the theater because it's straight to home video and we'll even be hard to find there.

[777] Video not on demand.

[778] Video no one requested.

[779] You've heard a video on demand, this is video no one demanded.

[780] And in fact, the list of requests not to see it is quite long.

[781] I think that listeners out there, if you want to do a little fan or a poster artwork of Worley Gig, just to put it at Team Coco.

[782] Maybe hashtag it Worley Gig O 'Brien.

[783] Yeah, unless, of course, you have something real to do in your life.

[784] Please check every other box.

[785] You've considered for anything you're doing in your life before you sit down and draw the whirligigig art. That's my only request.

[786] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend, with Sonamov Sessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself.

[787] Produced by me, Matt Goreley.

[788] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Joanna Solitaroff, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

[789] Theme song by The White Stripes.

[790] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[791] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate.

[792] Your associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.

[793] The show is engineered by Will Beckton.

[794] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

[795] Got a question for Conan?

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[799] This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.