S21 E5: (1/2) [Emma] Mind Games

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences, as it discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, rape, and murder.

[11] Content warnings for each episode and confidential resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes.

[12] Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[13] pseudonyms are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection.

[14] Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, Broken Cycle Media, or Wondery.

[15] The podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment.

[16] Thank you so much for listening.

[17] According to the Cleveland Clinic, substance use disorder is a mental health condition in which a person has a problematic pattern of substance use that can cause distress and or impairs their life.

[18] The complicated behavioral patterns of substance use disorder can range from mild to severe.

[19] The severe form is classified as addiction.

[20] Addiction, however, does not appear in the diagnostic and statistical manual for mental disorders, or DSM, like substance use disorder does.

[21] The DSM -5 criteria for diagnosing and classifying substance use disorders falls under four distinct classifications.

[22] Impaired control over substance use, social impairment, risky use, and pharmacological criteria as in tolerance and withdrawal.

[23] Johns Hopkins Medicine shares that substances that have the potential to be addictive frequently include alcohol, prescription medicines, and hallucinogens among others.

[24] Substance use disorder is wide -reaching.

[25] In fact, in 2023, the National Center for Drug Abuse Statistics reported that Substance Use Disorder affects over 20 million Americans aged 12 and over.

[26] There's a striking correlation between substance use disorder and domestic violence.

[27] The American Addiction Center highlights that alcohol or drug use is involved in 40 to 60 percent of domestic abuse situations.

[28] Notably, men suffering with substance use disorder tend to exhibit more violence and aggression than women do.

[29] This is also true when it comes to substance use and domestic violence.

[30] The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration shares research findings of one -fourth to one -half of men who commit acts of domestic violence have substance abuse problems.

[31] A 2020 study found that individuals with substance use disorder have a 4 to 10 % higher risk of perpetuating violence than individuals without the disorder.

[32] Substance use disorder also affects survivors who have experienced domestic violence.

[33] A study from 2022 shares that women who have been exposed to various kinds of intimate partner violence are at a greater risk for more severe substance use disorder symptoms.

[34] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong.

[35] I'm Emma.

[36] I am from the Midwest.

[37] My dad passed away when I was 19.

[38] And prior to that, he had been ill for some time while I first started college.

[39] And so to deal with that, I started smoking weed more.

[40] Even when we would go see him in the hospital, I would get high in my car.

[41] I didn't want to feel anything.

[42] This was about four years after he passed away.

[43] And I think for whatever reason, it just started coming out in different ways.

[44] I don't want to say that's the whole reason why I was drinking and using because I was drinking and partying in high school and he was still alive.

[45] But I definitely stopped caring a lot about my life and my future and I felt like I had maybe disappointed him and like what was I even doing.

[46] I was pretty lost in what I wanted to do with my life.

[47] I finished nursing school and people think, okay, now you start your job as a nurse.

[48] and I just couldn't find where I fit in, where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do.

[49] I didn't want to give up my freedom, I guess, of partying and gambling.

[50] And a lot of that kind of goes hand in hand because when you did a nursing job, you have to do drug tests.

[51] And I just didn't want to give it up.

[52] When my dad passed away, he had left me some money and it was protected so I couldn't access it.

[53] but I would get a small amount every month for food, expenses, and whatnot.

[54] I did not have a rent for an apartment or anything at that time.

[55] And so I could live on that.

[56] If I would go to the casino and gamble, I could triple it, quadruple it, buy drugs, kind of live a pretty nice life off of a smaller amount of money.

[57] I think the bad thing about inheriting money is you definitely lose like a fire under you to really be ambitious.

[58] It took that away from me in some ways, and I'm very grateful.

[59] I know how lucky and privileged I am, but I always wonder what my life would have been like if I didn't have a safety net and had financial worries.

[60] Summer of 2012 is when I really was gambling a lot and smoking weed, and then in 2013 it escalated to cocaine and partying with alcohol, always being there, too.

[61] I started getting more into cocaine.

[62] I would do that in the bathroom at the casino and come back out and just stay up all night long, like when there's very few people at the casino, but it's 24 hours, so you could stay there nonstop.

[63] I met Joel at a casino.

[64] I had been gambling a lot, and I was spend a lot of time at the casino playing poker.

[65] I would park my car in the garage and stay there for a very long time, even sleeping in my car, just so I could gamble more.

[66] I had a gambling addiction, and I think I still do, but I don't go to casinos anymore.

[67] I love the rush of it.

[68] It was just kind of a fun, dirty place to be.

[69] There's free food, drinks, and it was just a way to escape At that time, I didn't really know what I was doing with my life.

[70] I had graduated nursing school, and for a year, didn't do anything.

[71] I felt really crappy about myself.

[72] At a casino, there's a lot of old men.

[73] I liked that feeling of being a young girl in that kind of environment.

[74] I would get high and just be at the table, drinking, no responsibilities.

[75] At first, I was just smoking weed, and there were even some people.

[76] I met playing poker, we'd go out to the cars and hotbox the car, go back in.

[77] I had this card, which is so embarrassing, and it was like the VIP card.

[78] If you gambled there a lot, you would get into this tier.

[79] And there's a special lounge for anyone who's the diamond card.

[80] You can go in there and have free drinks.

[81] They would have food, like the little mini buffet set up.

[82] And you would get one meal comped per day.

[83] I thought it was really fun.

[84] We would be up all night.

[85] and then we go bake out a car and then come back in and have this huge breakfast buffet and then just keep going.

[86] When I first met Joel, he had switched over to the poker table I was playing at and sat right next to me. You could tell he was trying to engage conversation and joke around.

[87] At one point, he's like, let's get out of here.

[88] You've been here too long.

[89] My friend's got a table down at a club.

[90] I had been there for quite a while, So I was like, okay, that sounds like a great plan.

[91] We had walked down to that club and some of his friends were there and they had drugs and he was giving that to me. And I was like, where else would I rather be other than the casino than here?

[92] I don't remember all that much, but we left the club.

[93] We went back to his apartment, maybe a couple other people and he had a whole bag of cocaine and I never seen that much at once.

[94] He presented himself as a drug dealer, and so there's just so much of it.

[95] And he freely gave it out to everybody.

[96] At the time, I was like, oh, this guy's really cool, even though that's not cool at all.

[97] We did cocaine and smoked weed.

[98] And at some point, I was really tired.

[99] And he's like, well, you can just stay here.

[100] I fell asleep on his couch.

[101] I think I slept the entire next day and night.

[102] It was like 24 hours of just sleeping.

[103] It felt like he was trying to rehab me. Here's this sad woman who's doing cocaine all day.

[104] I'm going to help her and get her out of the casino and have a real life or something.

[105] So it seemed genuine that he like cared and wanted the best for me in a way, yet he was still giving me cocaine.

[106] At that time, I was 24 and he was 32.

[107] I don't know if bad boy is the right word to describe him, but he had, like, tattoos all over, which was different than most people I had hung out with at that time.

[108] He had a lot of confidence and just acted like he was hot shit.

[109] He was really good at putting on a show and a persona and acting like something he wasn't.

[110] A lot of people around him were fooled by that, and I was too.

[111] I did not ask a lot of questions, which I've learned that you need to.

[112] I really didn't know much about him other than that he sold drugs.

[113] He knew a lot of people out and about at the club and that he had his own apartment.

[114] I don't think I really cared that I didn't know more about him.

[115] It was more, here's a place to stay.

[116] Here's somebody that has drugs.

[117] I definitely was not innocent in any of that.

[118] I manipulated him in certain ways where I could use him for my own gain.

[119] I've always felt like that's really played a big part in everything that has happened to.

[120] I was like, oh, here's another friend that doesn't think gambling's this horrible thing and likes to do cocaine as well.

[121] When I first went back to his place, I just kind of moved in with him instantly because it was the solution to my life.

[122] And it felt like this is the jackpot right now.

[123] I have a place I can crash and it's close to the casino.

[124] I have cocaine and I have some guy that is into me. I don't think I moved my stuff in immediately, but I did have clothes and stuff in my car anyway.

[125] Slowly, like I would bring a change of clothes over, an overnight bag.

[126] And then I had like a toothbrush there and very quickly I was just living there with him.

[127] I'd be able to go to the casino and he would go to the casino as well.

[128] And we'd play some poker and then leave when one of us was ready.

[129] And it was usually the fight of him wanting me to leave.

[130] I think he felt like I was choosing gambling over him.

[131] In his mind, like he thought we were going there and having fun together.

[132] And for me, it was more I'm going there gambling and then I have a place to stay with you.

[133] at the beginning he was a nice guy he took me to a baseball game and would take me to dinner was treating me pretty good when i slept over there the first night i had charged my phone on his computer i did not know at that time that you could download someone's entire phone just by charging it to a computer but you can so always be careful like plugging your phone into any computer.

[134] But I remember a couple days later, he was accusing me of this stuff.

[135] Like, I know you texted so and so.

[136] And at that time, I would kind of lie a little bit to people.

[137] I was like, no, I didn't.

[138] Because I didn't know, like, how he would know what my text said.

[139] And he had all this information almost like blackmail on me already.

[140] And I remember going through my whole phone and like deleting anything incriminating, any text from an ex, everything just to like be able to like show my phone if I ever needed to and be like, see, that's not.

[141] not true, but he had already had my phone backed up onto his computer.

[142] And so he would still say, well, I'm really good at reading people and I know you did.

[143] I'm really intuitive.

[144] I can tell him people are lying.

[145] And he had me like really convinced that he was just so good at reading people and that I couldn't really lie to him and he knew it.

[146] There's other times who'd play these games where like I didn't have a key to his apartment right at the beginning.

[147] I remember getting there once and someone else had let me into the building and his door was locked and I was in that.

[148] knocking on it, and he was acting like he wasn't there, kind of made it like someone else was in there, but no one was ever in there.

[149] And he was trying to make me feel like he had another woman in there and that she left out the window or something, which none of this ever happened.

[150] Later on, he even admitted that that never happened.

[151] But it was just these mind games.

[152] He was definitely uncomfortable anytime I wasn't with him right off the bat.

[153] I had gone to a music festival with some friends, and the tickets were sold out.

[154] He couldn't get in.

[155] Not that I ever planned to go with him or even introduce him to friends or anything, but he was just blowing up my phone the entire night.

[156] I'd run into one of his friends there, and we sent him a picture like, hey, we're together, and he lost it and would nonstop text me and I think was waiting outside of there until we left.

[157] By the time we got out, he had convinced us to all go to this club where he was at.

[158] There weren't a lot of options in the city I was in, so it's kind of where you would end up.

[159] I believe he did meet a couple of my friends that night, like casually.

[160] It wasn't like we were boyfriend and girlfriend, but that was the first real sign.

[161] That nonstop texting.

[162] And at that time, it's like, I don't owe you anything.

[163] I was just trying to put my phone away and hang out with friends.

[164] one of the other times that I first noticed him being different was I had gone home to see my family and do like a family dinner.

[165] And he was just texting me that whole time like, are you coming back tonight?

[166] And if you don't come back tonight, I'm going to have these strippers over, all this crazy stuff.

[167] And for whatever reason, I couldn't just be like, this guy's crazy.

[168] And whoever threatens that they're going to hang out with strippers if I don't come there, like I don't want anything to do with that.

[169] I was like, oh my God, I need to get back there because if I don't, he's going to sleep with someone else.

[170] Where most people, I think, would run the other way.

[171] I didn't want to lose this connection and this place to stay and this guy that was into me. I think at that point, he knew he can manipulate me with that because a lot of times that would come up where it's like, oh, I'm going to have this girl over.

[172] He was also very insecure.

[173] I was single when I met him and we weren't necessarily official.

[174] So I hadn't cut off communication with other people.

[175] And so guys would text me and it would just get him so angry.

[176] I never cheated on him.

[177] But even just texting someone else, it was this huge thing.

[178] Like, I'm taking care of you and you're talking to other guys.

[179] And it would be this huge fight.

[180] These fights would just escalate and escalate.

[181] I don't even know what they would be about half the time.

[182] I think a lot of it had to do with we were both using drugs.

[183] We were both staying up all night, no sleep, just two unhealthy people.

[184] Things would be thrown in the house.

[185] He would rip clothes.

[186] I wasn't completely innocent either.

[187] Like I remember there's one time he had this glass bowl to smoke weed out of and I threw it in the toilet and it broke.

[188] I definitely engaged with that behavior.

[189] It would just increase.

[190] So something bad would happen.

[191] And he would then want to take me out to dinner and buy me something.

[192] He bought me like a purse once as a sorry.

[193] That was a newer thing for me. I hadn't really been taken care of like that.

[194] And I liked being taken care of by a man. It felt loving.

[195] And so then everything would be fine again.

[196] I remember he bought me this Victoria's Secret, like night negligee or whatever they're called.

[197] As a sorry, he gave me that.

[198] And then that same day we got in a fight and he tore it off.

[199] body.

[200] The next day or two, he had bought me like the exact same one.

[201] So I had two of these one had been ripped up.

[202] It was almost like he just liked ripping it off of me in a way.

[203] We'd get in these screaming fights.

[204] I would kind of huddle down on the ground like because he was so angry and he'd grab my taintop by the back collar and drag me through the apartment.

[205] I've had bruises there where the tink top would pull.

[206] When I left, there's so many items of clothing that had been torn that I had to throw away from being dragged around the apartment.

[207] A lot of the fights were related to cocaine.

[208] He would basically call me a co -core and use that against me a lot.

[209] You wouldn't even be here if I didn't have cocaine.

[210] And I mean, he wasn't wrong.

[211] With this guy, I basically was high 24 -7, either smoking weed or doing cocaine and alcohol.

[212] If I was sober, I would have never given him the time of day.

[213] It's hard because I think a lot of people don't want to take responsibility.

[214] And yeah, this guy is a bad guy, whether I'm sober or not.

[215] But us together was just so toxic.

[216] Our personalities together brought out the worst in each other.

[217] I'm able to pick at people and poke the bear.

[218] And I didn't really care about anyone except for myself at the time.

[219] So like, I didn't really have any feeling like, bad for him that I was really just using him for a place to stay, shower, access to drugs, even though he did charge me a lot of the time for the cocaine, I paid him.

[220] But I definitely had a huge role in the volatility of that relationship.

[221] It's hard because I don't want to blame people when they stay, but I definitely stayed so many times when I shouldn't have.

[222] Looking back, there's so many times, or it's just like, why would you stay after that?

[223] It's easy to see now, but when we have an eroded sense of self, or we're lacking, I think, community or sobriety, there's so many nuances.

[224] I appreciate you owning your side of the street, so to speak, and still being able to hold space for the things no one ever deserves.

[225] Right.

[226] No one deserves to be treated like that or to have someone put their hand on them or yell at them in their face or any of that.

[227] But I definitely was not a healthy person at that time.

[228] God only knows how he was feeling.

[229] And I tried to understand that like I pushed his buttons also.

[230] There's this time where we had gotten in a fight and I was driving and we both had gotten Starbucks earlier that day, had like the Rappuccino cups in the center console.

[231] And he just started screaming at me. He took both of the cups from the middle and threw them at my face.

[232] I was just frozen there in shock.

[233] Like, did you just fucking do that?

[234] And there's coffee all over my car in the interior.

[235] He like jumped out of the car.

[236] He took my keys, my phone, slammed the door shut, kicked off my side view mirror and just ran down the street left me there.

[237] I had nowhere to go.

[238] I just had my car, no apartment key, no phone, and covered in coffee.

[239] The only place I could think to go was the casino of old places to rinse off.

[240] And then I started playing poker.

[241] It was the middle of the night.

[242] He ended up showing up and was behind the table and had my phone and was dangling it, like, here I have your phone.

[243] He was like, I'll pay to get your car fixed.

[244] We'll take.

[245] it to a car wash tomorrow and we'll clean it.

[246] He bought all these different upholstery cleaner things.

[247] The next day we had went and cleaned it and then he did pay for the repair, but it's hard to think about like you just threw coffee cups at you, destroyed your property, and you're going to like spend the night with him again and think you'll be safe.

[248] Maybe two and a half months into our relationship, if you want to call it that, my grandfather passed a away.

[249] My mom was out of the country at the time and it was her dad.

[250] And so she came back home and my other siblings came into town to kind of all be together.

[251] I at that point was pretty isolated from everybody.

[252] I would go days without responding to text messages from family, which was horrible looking back.

[253] But I was just basically in my own world at that time.

[254] My mom didn't even know if I was going to be coming home or what, even though I was only an hour away from where she lived.

[255] It was also getting increasingly worse and worse with Joel.

[256] Our fights were just getting more physical, more angry, the screaming, neighbors could hear it.

[257] It got to that point where it's like, if I don't leave here, something really, really bad is going to happen.

[258] And mixed with my grandfather just passing away and I wanted to get home and be with my family.

[259] Joel had went out to do like a drug run like he would do often.

[260] So I was just at the apartment alone and I'm like, I need to leave now.

[261] I started bagging my stuff up and taking trips down to my car.

[262] He was on the second floor.

[263] I didn't have that much stuff there, but maybe three trips or so.

[264] And as I came back in and packed the last of my stuff and was ready to leave.

[265] He got home and saw that I was leaving and had my bags and he just had this most angry look in his face I've ever seen.

[266] And so out of fear, I took his apartment key and just threw it into his apartment and took off running down the hall.

[267] He immediately started running after me like I looked behind my shoulder and could see him coming at me at like lightning speed with these crazy looking eyes.

[268] He quickly caught up to me. just threw me down to the ground.

[269] I, like, rolled over and heard a pop.

[270] My left arm was dangling, basically.

[271] It was obvious something happened to my arm.

[272] I was screaming and pain and crying.

[273] I was just laying in the hallway, like, what the fuck just happened and what am I going to do?

[274] There was a neighbor, a couple doors down, that opened the door, stuck their head out, and then just went back into their apartment.

[275] I think Joel was still with him.

[276] me when the neighbor opened the door and stuck their head out.

[277] He just looked at me and he's just like, you need to shut up.

[278] You're going to get me in trouble.

[279] And then he left me on the ground there and took off running back to his apartment and shut the door.

[280] When Joel ran back to his apartment and shut the door, it just kind of like added to that feeling like I'm literally alone and no one gives the fuck.

[281] I was like, what the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[282] And so I just started crawling towards the stairs.

[283] I got down to the first floor and my car was parked outside of the building.

[284] I get to my car and I get into it in the driver's seat and then Joel shows up on the window and he's like, where are you going?

[285] And I was like, I'm going to the hospital.

[286] And he's like, well, I'm going to drive you.

[287] And I'm like, no, you're not.

[288] Eventually, though, he got in the passenger seat of the car, like he cares all of a sudden.

[289] The hospital is not very far.

[290] It's like five minutes away, I think.

[291] I'm driving myself with him in the passenger seat, but he's on the phone with his mom.

[292] He, like, calls her freaking out saying that it happened.

[293] Like, he pushed me down, broke my collarbone.

[294] And she's like, well, Joel, you got to get out of that car.

[295] She's going to get you in trouble.

[296] She just started panicking that he was going to get arrested.

[297] That's when we came up with that.

[298] I was going to say that I slipped and fell because it was raining that day.

[299] So for whatever reason, I was like, Okay, I'm going to tell him I slipped and fell.

[300] I'm not a mom.

[301] So I'm trying to put myself in her shoes where this is her son, who she loves, and he just assaulted someone.

[302] She knows what's going to happen.

[303] And I understand why she did what she did because she doesn't care about me. Her priority was making sure her son would be okay.

[304] She definitely would help him with whatever he needed.

[305] After he got off the phone with his mom, he's like, I'm so sorry.

[306] Oh, my God.

[307] it was such an accident, acting like he's there for me. By the way, I am in prescribed Adderall.

[308] And so I had like a bunch of Adderall because I wasn't really taking it as I should of.

[309] And so he said to me, he's like, oh, by the way, I used all your Adderall, but don't worry.

[310] After we go to the hospital, my friend has a bunch that I'm going to buy from her and give it back to you.

[311] I don't know why that even mattered.

[312] It's such a weird thing looking back at because I feel.

[313] like, it's really hard to understand how somebody will lie and why they would stay with someone that would do that.

[314] He would say stuff like, no one's ever going to believe you because you were alone with the nurses while you were an x -ray and you never even told them the truth.

[315] And in my mind, I was like, holy shit, like he's right.

[316] I was alone and he wasn't with me and I didn't tell anyone.

[317] I look like I'm lying now by saying that he pushed me because I was so adamant about, about it to everybody at the hospital.

[318] No, I slipped and fell.

[319] They're all like, yeah, but how did you break your collarbone from slipping and falling?

[320] It didn't add up to anybody at all.

[321] And even in the X -ray, knowing what I know now, because I am a nurse, they were trying to get me to say what really happened.

[322] I just stuck to the slipping story.

[323] In my mind, I'm like, okay, we're going to leave here.

[324] We're going to get the Adderall.

[325] I was just kind of like going moment by moment.

[326] Joel and I left the ER after I got discharged.

[327] We had dropped off the prescriptions, and then we decided, let's just get fast food next door until they're ready.

[328] At that point, I had stepped away to call my brother.

[329] I wanted to tell someone.

[330] I told my brother in that moment that Joel had thrown me down and I broke my collarbone and that I was telling people I slipped.

[331] He had known that I was like lying to everybody.

[332] my mom, I put her through hell, and those are the things that are really hard to forgive myself about.

[333] She would try to call me or text me, and I just wouldn't even fucking text her back, like, yeah, I'm okay, or anything.

[334] I treated her really poorly, knowing that her dad died and, like, I already lost my dad, and I know how hard that is.

[335] Her dad died, and, like, she couldn't even be fully immersed in that funeral because I was there in a sling looking really rough.

[336] No matter how poorly I treated her, she still had that concern for me. There's certain things about this whole experience that, like, make me feel really sad and want to cry.

[337] She didn't get to grieve her father.

[338] I took that from her and made it all about me. Not that I was like, everybody, look at me, but, like, just by.

[339] even having a sling on my arm, I feel horrible that I wasn't there for her.

[340] I love her so much.

[341] I mean, she's the best mom.

[342] We talk like every day and I'm really lucky that I have that relationship still.

[343] But we went to this funeral and then after the funeral, everybody went to some restaurant that had like an outdoor little area where everybody could just go there and we didn't have to have a table.

[344] It was like outdoors.

[345] A celebration of life or trying to make it a little more.

[346] positive after the funeral, I guess.

[347] My brother, we had gone out back at the funeral and had a cigarette and he was just like, well, you need to tell people.

[348] And he was worried about me. He at least took pictures of different bruises on my arm and body.

[349] And so it was after the funeral when we were at that place.

[350] I told my aunt, she basically came up to me like, what's going on here?

[351] This doesn't make sense.

[352] Everybody was like, you slipped.

[353] The story just did not make sense.

[354] And so I finally told my aunt and my mom, and they were both like, you need to go make a police report right now.

[355] Do you want us to come with you or whatever?

[356] And I was like, no. I left from the lunch we were doing, and I went straight to the police department and walked in and said, I need to file a police report.

[357] They took me back and had me tell them what happened.

[358] It was like a very quick process, though, of giving them information.

[359] They just said someone will be contacting me, and I can't remember how that started or someone called me to get more information about where he may be.

[360] But two days later, Joel texted me and was like, the police came by and were at my door and I didn't let them in.

[361] I was responding, but I was at home with my family.

[362] Part of it was him texting me a lot, trying to get me back with undertones of making sure that I was still going with the slipping story.

[363] Eventually, he did get a copy of the police report, and then everything switched.

[364] He wanted me to drop the case or whatever, but I was never, like, suing him or going after him.

[365] Basically, the state picked it up, and the state was pursuing it.

[366] The way it was described to me was I can either be their witness.

[367] or not, but like they were going to go forward with this because an assault happened.

[368] They're going to have better odds if I'm their witness.

[369] Obviously, I was going to work with them.

[370] And so I don't really know what Joel wanted me to do, like tell them, never mind, I made it up or what, but it started this entire next chapter of nonstop texts and phone calls.

[371] There's no word that describes the chaos of that time.

[372] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[373] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[374] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[375] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[376] What happens next?

[377] Depends on who you ask.

[378] Was it a crime of passion?

[379] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[380] This was clearly an intentional act.

[381] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[382] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[383] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[384] Everyone had an opinion.

[385] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[386] To end in a mistrial, it's just a con. confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[387] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[388] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[389] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[390] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[391] I'm Sachi Cole.

[392] And I'm Sarah Hagey.

[393] And we're the host of Scam Fluent.

[394] A weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once a facade falls away.

[395] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King and no real product to push.

[396] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[397] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judici, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[398] Follow Scam Fluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[399] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[400] At first, a lot of it was just threats to get me to drop the case.

[401] He would say stuff like, well, I'm going to tell your mom everything.

[402] And he'd send me screenshots of these texts that he had typed down.

[403] out ready to send to her cocaine, pictures that I had on my phone of other guys.

[404] During our relationship, he had filmed us having sex.

[405] There was two videos.

[406] There's one where like a camera is behind me set up somewhere that I had no idea about.

[407] The other one, it's like a video of him masturbating to a sex video of us.

[408] He threatened to send those to my mom as well.

[409] He would send me these screenshots basically of the thumbnail of a video and be like, well, why shouldn't I send this?

[410] At that point, I thought no one knew that I ever even did drugs.

[411] I couldn't imagine any of the stuff getting out because he had a lot of incriminating stuff on my phone.

[412] My mom was just like, this has to stop.

[413] And I was like, okay, well, he's about to send you all this stuff.

[414] And I gave her a warning because I had enough.

[415] It's like, fine, send it to my mom.

[416] He was trying to blackmail me to do whatever he wanted.

[417] My mom opens an email, and the one is of me. I'm high.

[418] And the other one is him jerking off to a recorded video.

[419] It was just like this shock to my mom.

[420] And that's when it started getting more scary to.

[421] If you're willing to send my mom this tape, this guy's going to do anything.

[422] You're like towing a line of you don't want to piss someone off, but I was still in communication with him to some degree.

[423] I was mostly ignoring everything, but he would keep sending me emails.

[424] And then he would make all these different fake phone numbers and send me text.

[425] There was one of them where I get this text from a random phone number and it's a picture of Joel laying face down.

[426] And they're just like, listen, this is awkward, but me and my husband found this man laying in the hallway.

[427] He had a note with your name and number.

[428] The EMS took him to the hospital.

[429] I'm sorry.

[430] Hopefully he makes it.

[431] And then they texted again.

[432] We just got done talking to the police.

[433] He had no identification.

[434] It was obviously him trying to scare me, I guess, because then he also texted a picture of like all these pills in his hand.

[435] Like, if you don't answer me, I'm going to take all this Xanax and tell me why I shouldn't.

[436] Please respond and threatening to kill himself if I didn't respond.

[437] At this point, like, I was working with a detective in the state and the prosecutor also.

[438] And so everything I was getting, I was sending over to them.

[439] It doesn't put me in a good light.

[440] Let's just say that.

[441] Like, I was basically giving them everything.

[442] It's all coming out and we're going to go from there.

[443] I had to email these videos to the prosecutor.

[444] It's so embarrassing to have people like see that.

[445] Even though, to be honest, you can't see a lot in the videos.

[446] It's not like it's like a close up of my body parts, but it's still such an invasion of privacy.

[447] It wasn't like every time Joel emailed me or messaged me, I was sending it over, but it was like whenever I had enough stuff, I would put it in an email and send it over.

[448] The detective and the prosecutor, they're both older men, but it's so crazy how close I'll always feel to them.

[449] The detective was just always there to answer my calls and concerns.

[450] They had a warrant out for him, and it was really hard to find him, even though they knew he was in that same city, the detective would call me and if I thought I knew where he would be because he would text me things like, well, I'm going to go here and you should come or like little updates on what he was doing.

[451] So I would just forward that over to the detective to try to help them find him.

[452] The relationship with Joel overall in the end was how long?

[453] Less than three months.

[454] It escalated quickly and ended quickly.

[455] It really messes with so much of your thinking and it took a really long time to like get back to myself after that.

[456] I had also been trying to go to like narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous meetings during that time as well.

[457] But then it got to a point where I was like, well, I'm going to a meeting and then I would just go party during that time too.

[458] Like I would drive to a meeting and then I wouldn't go in because I just needed to do one more line and then I'd look up where the next closest meeting would be and then I would drive to that church and not go in.

[459] And it was just like this constant wanting so bad to not do this anymore, but I couldn't stop.

[460] So at this point, I was back living with my mom.

[461] To be honest, I was still going up to gamble every so often, even while I was in a sling.

[462] When I was living with her after the surgery, there was one day where I was going into her house.

[463] I didn't think she would be home.

[464] I thought she would be at work and I was going into like shower or whatever and she was coming out and saw me and I had like a bloody nose and she just called me out on it she's like we grew up in the 70s I know what's going on she's like give me the rest of it it did that thing where you like take half of it and I'm like here's everything when I talk about how I got sober I a lot of times we'll talk about Joel that relationship and how volatile it was even after he broke my collarbone, that wasn't enough for me to be like, you need to quit this lifestyle, but it was more when I had surgery for my collarbone and I still was choosing to live in my car doing cocaine with a broken collarbone.

[465] That was the low part for me. Inside, it's like, what the fuck am I doing?

[466] You just had this entire situation happen.

[467] It's still ongoing.

[468] You just had surgery and you can't stop.

[469] You have a place to go at your moms, but you don't want them to know that you're doing drugs.

[470] It got to a point where it was so obvious I needed help and I felt like if I did not get help, I would die.

[471] I went to my mom and I was honest with her and I said, I need to go to rehab.

[472] I called the number I found online and I went back and forth for a minute, but two days later, I was on a flight to go to a different state for rehab.

[473] It wasn't a secret.

[474] It was a decision I made and my mom was supportive of it.

[475] But even to go to the airport, she's like, I'll drive you to the airport.

[476] And I was like, no, no, I'll drive myself.

[477] Because all I could think about is I need to do drugs up to the last second before I get on that plane.

[478] And so she drove also to the airport in a separate car just to say goodbye to me, which is another one of those things.

[479] I was just like so loving.

[480] The rehab experience I had was really good.

[481] I planned to only go for one month.

[482] I thought I just needed to like take a break from everything and also get away from this whole situation with Joel.

[483] But it was after like a month being there is like you need more time.

[484] So I ended up being at rehab for two months total.

[485] The rehab I went to, you did not have your cell phone.

[486] They would give you your cell phone for about one hour every evening.

[487] During the day, they wake you up early and you're in these classes and group therapy and it was a really awesome experience, honestly.

[488] But that hour in the evening, you get your phone, you turn it on and it would be flooded with texts or emails and they were all over the place.

[489] This was probably the main time when he was just panicking really and in hiding and on the run.

[490] So every day when I would turn that phone on, I'd never even knew what I was going to get.

[491] Some days it would be like, I always loved you and thank you so much for the time we had together.

[492] And then the next day, it would be like, it sucks that you're choosing to do this, these long, long, long emails.

[493] It came out that he started doing meth, and I don't know if he was doing that while we were together, but there was other drugs involved.

[494] To open up, man, it sucks that I'm not going to be the one to do that with you.

[495] It could experience life at the fullest.

[496] I'm leaving tomorrow for California.

[497] I'm sorry, I'm left Wednesday, but I miss you, babe.

[498] Doesn't anybody ever know?

[499] Doesn't anybody ever know?

[500] I'm so scared.

[501] And I hope that you live well and be happy.

[502] And I wish that person could have been being.

[503] I would have done anything.

[504] I'm so sorry I lied to you.

[505] You have no idea how hurtful I feel for you.

[506] It's a shame.

[507] This is July 25th, 2013 at 5 .13 a .m. I just couldn't stomach opening up to you and having you feel sorry.

[508] I would have loved to open up to you for the right way.

[509] I have made too many mistakes to fix this.

[510] I know.

[511] I want to make amends properly.

[512] Before I go to jail preferably.

[513] Maybe you don't ever want to speak to me, and as honest and painful as that is, it's what you really deserve.

[514] Within the next week, I have to somehow get my shit out of my place, sell it and go make a run at a casino, and hire my guy to represent me. I truly miss you, and I'm very sorry, and I've made a complete fool of myself all the way around.

[515] I do want to show you, I'm sorry, and honestly, don't know how to do it under these circumstances in avoiding and ignoring you.

[516] I feel wouldn't have been the right, honest way.

[517] I left you in a bad spot and made things worse, and I could make them even more worse, but you don't deserve that.

[518] My intentions were never to end like this, ever.

[519] I'm immature, selfish, and really a fucked up person who needs honest help.

[520] I'm asking you to take that into your heart that I'm honest and responsible when I say it.

[521] My plan is not to try and harass you.

[522] I have come to the boiling point of reality that it's over, and it sucks, and I've really miss you.

[523] I get excited and overdo it, especially with you.

[524] No matter what you say or want to believe in my eyes, you were the most complete woman I have ever met, seen, and spoken to.

[525] Everything about you makes me wild, especially when you rubbed my back and made me feel special, which was rare because I never really deserved much because I played way too many mind games with you.

[526] I hope one day you can genuinely forgive me and know that I am sorry.

[527] I fucked up big time and losing you was my my biggest mistake and regret in my life.

[528] I have never felt so safe and affectionate with you.

[529] I realize in the end I was a piece of shit and still am.

[530] I'm sorry you honestly ever met me at this horrible period of my life.

[531] I will respect you and your wishes and leave you alone.

[532] I just wanted to say a few things from the bottom of my heart and I mean it.

[533] The one thing that stuck out to me on that is when he said, I left you in a bad spot and made things worse.

[534] And I could make them even more worse, but you don't deserve that.

[535] That's the one line that stood out to me. It's a veiled threat.

[536] It's a threat.

[537] That same night that he like hooked my phone to his computer and downloaded the entire thing.

[538] And so with it, he had every phone number, text, picture, email, everything.

[539] He started messaging exes that I had an STI and that they needed to get tested.

[540] One of the first things I got was a text from one of my exes saying, hey, what?

[541] what's up with this?

[542] Do you need to tell me something?

[543] And it was just like, oh my God, what the fuck is going on?

[544] Certain people like throughout our short relationship.

[545] If they texted me, it was this huge thing like he thought I was getting back with them.

[546] So he immediately like message all those people that I had an STI.

[547] He made multiple, multiple accounts.

[548] And they were able to track it to his email.

[549] He would create very vulgar, usernames that included my name that would say, I'm ready to come out with my life and hope you're ready for the show, or he would do these other ones where it would have my name spelled just like one letter wrong and saying that I have STIs.

[550] And he would friend all of my friends to follow it.

[551] And this is on Twitter and Instagram.

[552] I think he knew that that would make me really scared to know like he gave me an STI.

[553] I think part of it was, him trying to be like, well, we both have this STI, so you might as well be with me. But I think a lot of it was just to really be mean.

[554] He really made me think he gave me an STI and it would be okay if I got an STI, but I've never had one and all of my tests have been negative.

[555] And so there's just this part of me like, oh my God, I'm with someone I love now.

[556] What if he did give me an STI and then I give it to this person because it pops up all a sudden?

[557] It really messed with me. This one's from like 11 .04 p .m. I miss you and hope you're well.

[558] I'm so lonely and far away.

[559] I really don't want to do anything to expose you.

[560] I'm sorry.

[561] I know you really hate me. I'm so bipolar and I love you with all my heart.

[562] I hope you're doing well.

[563] I deleted everything in this email account will go soon and all my iPhone will go away.

[564] Every day for a few minutes, I sit back and reflect.

[565] Everything seems to be a blur.

[566] I have to make a timeline of our events.

[567] I have way too much overwhelmed.

[568] evidence, and I'm still scared.

[569] More importantly, I lost you.

[570] I would have done anything for you.

[571] I never knew in a million years these events would ever transpire.

[572] I should be so sick and hateful towards you.

[573] And I can't.

[574] I know you don't believe a word I say, but I can't help but express things to you.

[575] I hope you didn't change your email address either.

[576] I want you to know that I'm sorry I lied to you from the very beginning and caused you not to trust me. I wish I knew why I honestly did that.

[577] With all your faults, I have found they still don't matter, as I just want you to be happy.

[578] You're not the person I have read about, and the person with turmoil and vindiction towards me. I know somewhere there's a gentle little kitty waiting to be purred.

[579] I'm so sorry you can't speak to me, as I wouldn't even know what to say anyway.

[580] If I could go back into time and change anything in my life, it would be the day I used those strippers to see a sign from you.

[581] It caused everything.

[582] Caused you to hate me, not respect me, use me and hurt me, which in return caused me never to try with you.

[583] I'm mainly at fault.

[584] I'm so sorry.

[585] I sometimes get angry and try and threaten to expose you.

[586] You know that I could never go through with that.

[587] I just want to see you be the person I know you can.

[588] Good night.

[589] This is just one of, I mean, seriously hundreds.

[590] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[591] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[592] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like, like stuttering super bad.

[593] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[594] She's like, I can't.

[595] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[596] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[597] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[598] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[599] Well, you were holding something back.

[600] Intentionally.

[601] Yeah, yeah.

[602] Well, yeah.

[603] No, it's hysteria.

[604] It's all in your head.

[605] It's not physical.

[606] You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[607] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[608] Or is it something else entirely?

[609] Something's wrong here.

[610] Something's not right.

[611] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[612] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[613] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[614] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[615] Some people have brought up like, why don't you just change your number?

[616] Or why don't you just block him on your email?

[617] And I did block him.

[618] He would make new emails.

[619] and use new phone numbers, you're going to block a number and then a new one pops up.

[620] Now you're getting a text from a random new number.

[621] You don't necessarily know it's him.

[622] There's something scarier when you don't know it's him.

[623] At the time, it made a lot more sense to just keep the number, not block it, document it.

[624] For people who haven't been in those situations where someone's manipulating you, it's like, oh my God, I have all these faults and this person still wants to be with me. Especially when you have low self -esteem and low confidence, it's like, if I'm not not with him, no one's going to want me. At rehab, I really did not respond, but he would send me these long, long, long emails, making excuses for why he is the way he was and that he saw this whole future for us.

[625] When I wasn't responding to him, it was escalating and escalating because at this time, he found out that there was a warrant out for him.

[626] And in his mind, I was the only one who could stop that from happening.

[627] He'd send me screenshots of things he would say to my mom and other people that he was going to expose.

[628] One time he was like, well, I'm in Seattle and I see your cousin lives here and why don't I give her a visit.

[629] There's about a 40 % chance that you're staying with her.

[630] He would send like a GPS Google image of my aunt and uncle's house to me and it started getting to my family, which was scarier when he would start doing that.

[631] He would send me screenshots of my brother's Facebook status if he was going out somewhere threatening that he'll show up there too.

[632] And it's hard because I try to tell my family at that time, like he's watching everything.

[633] So please don't post pictures of me or anything like that because even if I'm in the background, like he's watching it.

[634] They mostly decided to stay public with their profiles.

[635] And that's their decision.

[636] But I don't think most people understand how much people can find out about you online until you go through it and how much risk you really have by just putting anything out, even if it's not to you.

[637] If they're your family member or your friend, they're going to click people that they know you know.

[638] It's really easy to find out things about people, even if that specific person has a private profile.

[639] So he would send me these things and I wouldn't respond and it was like, you need a reply or you need to contact my attorney by this time.

[640] My little brother, when he was in college, he had like a marijuana charge, which is now legal in that state, but he was on probation from it.

[641] And it was one of those things if you don't mess up during your probation, like it will be expunged from everything.

[642] He was somehow looked up that my brother was on probation and he started making threats that he would contact his probation officer and have him arrested and make sure he gets a drug tested and all these things.

[643] He also like mentioned that he was going to to be in the city that my brother lives in.

[644] He's like, now I will stop at nothing to destroy you.

[645] Your family, your sisters, your friends, your ex -friends, our current friends, your boyfriends will all know what you're about.

[646] Then I will beat this case, come out and sue you for falsifying a police statement.

[647] Then I will make a civil action ensue because of all the damage you've caused.

[648] It's said with such anger, it's just so scary when your choices affect others.

[649] It's the worst.

[650] So with my family, it was difficult because I was also going through the drug stuff.

[651] A lot of times, I don't know, your family's just sick of your shit, basically.

[652] And my mom would say things like, you let this guy into our home and he knows where we live.

[653] I'm afraid every time I get out of my car at home and walk into my house telling me how she's living in fear and all these things.

[654] I feel like my brother really didn't care if I'm being honest.

[655] Like, I don't think he was really affected by it.

[656] And I'm just basing that off of he stayed public profile and he maybe like stopped posting as much, but they're not taking it that seriously.

[657] And then almost acting like, well, why are you taking it so seriously?

[658] This guy's not going to do anything.

[659] And you're just scared for nothing, kind of minimizing the feelings I have, which was hard.

[660] Your family loses trust in you when you're using.

[661] And that's taken a long time to build back as well.

[662] And so I don't really blame them for that.

[663] But my sister's like, why would you get this guy involved in our lives?

[664] Or just my sister's like, ew, why would you even date the sky?

[665] That shit, that just makes you feel horrible.

[666] But I also knew it was true.

[667] Like, I did expose my family to it.

[668] And so it just sucked.

[669] At that point, it was harassment.

[670] And I would even say this to people I was around.

[671] I was like, I don't understand we weren't together that long.

[672] Like, I'm not that great.

[673] Why can't you just let it go.

[674] I didn't realize he was trying to intimidate me to change my story.

[675] But at that point, it was just like, dude, leave me alone.

[676] I don't know what you're wanting from me. But in his mind, he's on the run from the police.

[677] And I'm the only person that can stop that, I guess.

[678] I was still on Facebook.

[679] And there's people in my rehab that I would make Facebook friends with.

[680] Even though Joel was not my friend.

[681] He was able to somehow see my newest friends.

[682] And at one point, my roommate had gotten a message from him.

[683] This is his message.

[684] Hi, how are you?

[685] So I hear you're quite the headcase.

[686] You enjoy robbing people and heroin?

[687] That's no good.

[688] You also enjoy being a slut.

[689] That's also no good.

[690] Emma played with fire and will be burned eventually.

[691] The choice is simple.

[692] You work with her.

[693] You get burned too.

[694] He was able to know way too much.

[695] How does this person know this?

[696] I didn't have a phone during the day or anything.

[697] Like, I'd have it an hour a day.

[698] And so you check your phone if there's ways that he has an app on there.

[699] He would be like, I need to come save you from Palm Beach, and I'm coming down there.

[700] I had a counselor, therapist, at the rehab, and he said her name.

[701] And so you knew someone was talking to him.

[702] It's one thing to know where I am, but to actually know the details was scary.

[703] He started messaging other people at the rehab.

[704] One of the guy's friends told me there's people here that are getting gift cards in exchange for giving him information.

[705] And they wouldn't tell me who.

[706] I just never pursued who it was.

[707] It was just one of those things you're never going to find out.

[708] At one point, I thought my roommate and her boyfriend were talking to him.

[709] And so I also felt like everybody around me could be that person who was giving him the information.

[710] I got this one text.

[711] He says, White truck, skipping your rehab, fucking a boy from Arizona, LOL, a place where I have resources.

[712] And like, none of that happened, but I went to the beach with someone that had a white truck.

[713] And so there would be these, like, details, other texts.

[714] Romeo and Juliet style.

[715] I'm going to plan this very well.

[716] The look will be so priceless.

[717] Shots fired.

[718] You think you're the shit till I put you on fire, fire, fire, fire.

[719] A different one later on.

[720] Trust nobody, you worthless bitch.

[721] All of these things were terrifying.

[722] And I would tell the rehab, because like someone's telling you fire, fire, fire, Romeo and Juliet style.

[723] Is he about to come do something here?

[724] Because, I mean, he was a crazy person.

[725] It was secure and gated.

[726] I just wanted to make sure it felt like he was going to show up any minute.

[727] they would have these meetings and bring me in and discuss what was going on.

[728] And at the time, I just wanted everyone to maybe have his picture and know there's a warrant out and that he's sending me these threats.

[729] Would he have come to where my rehab was?

[730] I don't know how you can travel really when you're on a watch list, but it is something I believe he would have done.

[731] From the first day that I made that police report in July until when he was arrested, that entire time of these threats and feeling like you're being watched all the time.

[732] I was always looking over my shoulder.

[733] It took a really long time to stop doing that, even after he was in prison.

[734] You get in this habit of always looking who's around you and I'm not like that anymore, but it was a very scary way to be.

[735] Like you're always on edge.

[736] You don't know if he's going to pop out any minute.

[737] You almost will walk by people and they look like him.

[738] So then you do like a double take and it was just a really, really scary time.

[739] If you average the amount of times he texted or called me within those five months, it averaged, I think they said it was like two texts and one phone call every single day for five months.

[740] The day I was set to quote, graduate rehab, I was going to move to halfway house the next day.

[741] A lot of people will go to a halfway house.

[742] And it's kind of like an in -between rehab and then back to your real life.

[743] You have a lot more freedom than you just had at rehab, but you're still being drug -tested and accountable to have to go to meetings and, you know, you're around other sober people.

[744] And so a lot of times it helps people, I think, to not just get thrown back out.

[745] They took me before graduation and they said, you need to leave now.

[746] We packed up your stuff, but it's a security risk to have you here.

[747] I missed my, like, rehab graduation and then went to halfway house a day or two early.

[748] He took that from me. And it also just makes you feel bad about yourself.

[749] Like, I had all this baggage now.

[750] Even at the halfway house, you have to tell people, like, there's this person that has a warrant for his arrest, and he's sending me a lot of threats.

[751] At the time, I felt like I wasn't ready to be on my own yet.

[752] And it was a good way to still have some accountability.

[753] So I stay in the city where I went.

[754] into rehab and I go to halfway house.

[755] I did halfway house for nine months.

[756] You kind of move up to a different house if you meet criteria like every three months, you then have a later curfew and then eventually you don't have any curfew and you're not breathalized every night.

[757] He was still sending me these things.

[758] I ended up going to the police in Delray Beach.

[759] I was working with a detective there.

[760] She was the best.

[761] Her name was Detective Carney.

[762] And she was incredible.

[763] Honestly, I just felt like someone cared and took me seriously and understood.

[764] I'm actually scared because when I would tell a lot of people, he's saying he's out the window and they're just like, he doesn't know where you are.

[765] And, you know, he's not going to do anything.

[766] I went into the police department and she got all the information.

[767] She started talking to my detective that I had in the state I was from.

[768] They started working together.

[769] because, okay, now I'm in another state.

[770] There's another jurisdiction involved.

[771] And I don't know exactly how all that works, but basically now Florida was also going to establish charges against him.

[772] So she was starting to build her own case.

[773] They were like, can we subpoena your cell phone?

[774] And I was like, yes.

[775] So I gave him my cell phone willingly and let her download everything off of it.

[776] Because when I first decided to go to rehab, I was like, there's nothing else I'm going to hide.

[777] I've done really shitty things, and I'm turning a corner now, and sometimes, unless you have that exposed, it's like you're going to keep doing stuff.

[778] And so I was just like, take everything, you know, there's going to be some probably weird pictures and text, whatever, but they downloaded my entire phone, and then they were able to use that data with the detectives in my home state as well, just at least have that record.

[779] Florida was going to do charges for stalking and intimidation.

[780] They ended up dropping those.

[781] I don't really know why everything was going to be done out of my home state instead.

[782] I did see that detective's name on the subpoena list for my prosecutors.

[783] So they were going to bring her into my home state.

[784] When I made the police report, I either told them in the police report or they wrote the date wrong.

[785] But I guess the report said one day, and it was the day before when it actually happened.

[786] So the date was off by one day.

[787] And that was something he just held on to.

[788] Like, see, it's not true.

[789] That's not even the day.

[790] It was kind of scary because I was like, well, shoot, I got the day wrong on a police report.

[791] And I don't know the laws.

[792] Is that falsifying a police report?

[793] And him saying, like, you told everyone at the hospital that you slipped.

[794] And I'm going to subpoena everybody from the hospital.

[795] and I have the camera footage at the apartment of us getting outside to your car and they can see that if you're so scared of me, why'd you let me into your car?

[796] It's really crazy when you put everything out there.

[797] Like, things look certain ways that they weren't.

[798] And so in my mind, I was like, I went along with this lie and lied to multiple people.

[799] That's going to come back on me, I guess.

[800] But every time I was kind of worried or something, I would reach out to the detective and the prosecutor and they were like, none of this matters.

[801] I think that the detectives at this point felt like they were sitting on a stack of gold or whatever the saying is.

[802] And they're like, if we're ever going to get a case, like we have it, basically.

[803] There's so much here.

[804] At least that's how the detective treated me. And I really appreciate that.

[805] Because in the past, it's like, well, how are we even going to prove this?

[806] Like when he broke my collarbone, there's not really proof of him doing that.

[807] And so that's a little bit harder to prove, especially when he's saying he didn't do it.

[808] Whereas with these texts and phone calls, it's all there.

[809] And there's no trying to refute that.

[810] And a lot of his texts were really scary.

[811] Like, I'm going to be the Dexter to your life.

[812] He would talk about the show Dexter a lot.

[813] When this stuff was happening, I was in a halfway house and my world just felt so small.

[814] There was no vision of having a normal life.

[815] I didn't really, make goals for myself or anything because I really felt like he was going to find me and kill me. I think sitting day in and day out with that feeling, I just stopped really caring about anything else for those five months or so when he had the warrant and was just sending all these things.

[816] Fortunately, I was in a halfway house, so they were like drug testing me, breathalizing me. There was a curfew.

[817] You had to have a job and I was working as like a hostess a couple days a week.

[818] That really kept me safe and I'm really grateful for that structure during that time.

[819] It kept me from doing something that could really impact my life.

[820] I don't know.

[821] It kept my head clear.

[822] You just kind of go day by day and it's like there's going to be more texts or messages and then you're not going to sleep at night.

[823] But I'm still also during that time trying to figure out how to live sober and going to meetings and trying to have connections with people like I never had.

[824] and I didn't talk about this to everybody, and so it was really hard to get to know people or let people know me because there was just this huge part I wasn't telling them.

[825] I just was so isolated.

[826] I believe the detective called me because we had been contacting each other via email, and I would send him the text as they came through.

[827] And then he's like, did you guys have a place that you would go to a lot?

[828] And so we just kept trying to find where he would be and how to catch him.

[829] They flagged him at the casino and he ended up going into the casino and they were able to get him.

[830] He was arrested November 10th, 2013.

[831] That feeling was just like, is this real?

[832] You don't believe it.

[833] And so then I'm looking online to see if he was arrested and like that stuff doesn't load right away either and finally seeing that online as well.

[834] It was just really hard to believe that he was actually arrested because it felt like this was going to go on forever.

[835] my life.

[836] You can just like take a deep breath for the first time for so long.

[837] Drop your shoulders and it did feel really, really incredible.

[838] Also to be able to call my mom and my family and let them know too because everybody was living in fear around me. It wasn't just me. It was family, friends and it was just this huge sigh of relief.

[839] Next time on something was wrong.

[840] They said that he looked back as if looking maybe for me or for my family and made eye contact with my aunt.

[841] He's got these black eyes.

[842] And so they were really scared.

[843] It doesn't feel as much of a threat.

[844] But it makes you feel like, what do you want for me?

[845] After all this time, are you ever going to stop reaching out to me?

[846] The person I am when I'm using is not the person I want to be.

[847] I have a huge gratitude for all of this because it got me sober.

[848] Thank you so much for listening.

[849] Until next time, stay safe, friends.

[850] Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[851] If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast.

[852] Our theme song was composed by Gladrags.

[853] Check out their album, Wonder Under.

[854] Thank you so much.

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