Lennon Parham

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Prathers, and I'm joined by Monica Monsoon.

[2] I didn't know what was going to come out.

[3] Oh, no. What were some of your thoughts?

[4] I didn't know.

[5] I thought maybe you were going to do like a sound effect.

[6] Foley.

[7] We haven't done Foley in a long time.

[8] Yeah, my beard isn't long enough.

[9] I've kind of got a shorter shear right now.

[10] If you watch Bless This Mess, which I hope you do, one of my favorite characters, on the program, Kay, who's played by the wonderful Lennon Parham, is here today.

[11] Yeah.

[12] And aside from all the things you know her from, which I'm sure you've seen her on Parks and Rec and Veep and Curb Your Enthusiasm, she had her own show called Best Friends Forever and her other own show playing house.

[13] But I know her mostly from Bless This Mess, and she's just my favorite person that's spend the day with.

[14] I've known her forever because she's a superstar at UCB.

[15] She's a legend and a hero.

[16] legendary improv.

[17] Yes.

[18] And so I've been an admirer of her from afar for a long time.

[19] But then she's an admirer of yours from afar.

[20] And then you guys became friends.

[21] Look at that.

[22] So please enjoy Lenin Parham.

[23] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and add free right now.

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[25] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[26] He's an ultramidstack's in the calendar I designed.

[27] You designed a calendar.

[28] Oh, yeah.

[29] I cannot wait.

[30] Can you guess who's abdomen that is just by looking at it?

[31] Because here's the fun part.

[32] Oh, these are just apps?

[33] Well, different body parts.

[34] Different body parts.

[35] I haven't listened to the episode where you talked about this.

[36] I was saying a great thing for charity for kids would be celebrities' private parts.

[37] Just their private parts.

[38] You don't know who's is who.

[39] On the front of the calendar, you'll have all these famous faces.

[40] And then inside is their genitalia.

[41] But we don't know.

[42] But it is a narrow downable thing, right?

[43] If you know that it's out of these 12 people, I think I'm going to be able to pick out whose to Tays are photographed.

[44] I think it's still guess, though.

[45] Because if, let's say it's 12 men.

[46] And then inside is just 12 closeups of penis and testicle.

[47] I don't know, number one, who's going to buy that because women, women don't want to close -up of a D. I agree.

[48] It's for gay males, primarily.

[49] And you.

[50] That's true.

[51] That's true.

[52] And that's true.

[53] And Rob McElheny.

[54] That is true.

[55] Yeah.

[56] And again, it's to support and further the thriving of children.

[57] It's for a good cause.

[58] Yeah.

[59] It's for a kid's charity.

[60] I said no. That seems problematic.

[61] Exactly.

[62] I mean, yeah, maybe it would raise a bunch of money, but then.

[63] Then we give that right to the kids who need it, you know, just hand it out.

[64] Don't tell them where it came from.

[65] No, no. So the men would buy one.

[66] There's 12 famous female faces on the front.

[67] Yeah.

[68] And then inside is Minora Majora, Majora, all the parts.

[69] Labia, everything we've come to know.

[70] Are we talking like...

[71] Random breasts.

[72] Just like, I don't know, like an Annie Leibowitz, like from the front.

[73] Like an artistic version.

[74] Or is it like...

[75] No. It's full spread bent over doggy anus style.

[76] Yeah.

[77] What is it?

[78] It's more like an iPhone photo.

[79] Doggy anest style.

[80] Like a portrait.

[81] mode of correct no the calendar is called doggy anestide for children that is the name of the calendar the much bigger point is it's so it's so narrowly focused on the genitalia that there's everyone's safe that's on the cover no face there's a high probability of deniabilities there's a level of anonymity it's only a one in 12 it's got to be all white women you know what i mean like you're gonna way narrow it down if you have people of color or all black we could do a half and half Which would be best.

[82] Now, that's an even better layer is that we have different ethnicities.

[83] So we're also dividing up ethnicities in the calendar, which will be embraced.

[84] That's even worse.

[85] That's way worse.

[86] Oh, my God.

[87] Black and white?

[88] Well, I don't think that's got a steepia tone.

[89] You'd still be able to tell.

[90] What if it's, to me, it's like if it's a page a day calendar is 365.

[91] Oh, page a day.

[92] Then just so many more people to choose from.

[93] Then I really am not sure at any day who's what.

[94] That's true.

[95] We don't have to include the faces on the front.

[96] It can just be like the counter I made based off of this.

[97] There's no faces on the front.

[98] It's just body parts so you don't know.

[99] But I knew.

[100] But Dax did guess all of them.

[101] He did.

[102] Except like two.

[103] In one of them.

[104] All men?

[105] All men.

[106] Of course.

[107] I'm not a pervert.

[108] This is great.

[109] I want to show you one that I'm so proud of guessing just a specific one.

[110] Oh, man. man here we go this was one of them oh isn't that great Monica is so clever it's an x -ray yeah well it's a self -body scam from an iPhone we had this doctor Eric Topol on uh -huh who is promoting people getting involved with their health with their own iPhone there's all these different apps and you can track yeah yeah and he's given himself many body scans and diagnosed himself with some stuff I don't think the normal iPhone can right now, but he's like, that's where technology is going.

[111] And he has that access.

[112] And this is from his iPhone.

[113] That's his inside of his body.

[114] Wow.

[115] Yeah.

[116] And I got it.

[117] And it felt great.

[118] Anyways, that's Rob McElhenney.

[119] Okay, got it.

[120] Weirdly enough, boldly going nowhere.

[121] Yeah.

[122] Same boldly going nowhere that Rob McElhenney wrote.

[123] Yeah.

[124] That was like my first thing ever.

[125] I mean, really, it was like a big.

[126] deal.

[127] Yes.

[128] Okay, so I think that's one of the funniest screenplays I've ever read in my life.

[129] It was so fucking funny.

[130] And the pilot was, I mean, the produced pilot was hilarious.

[131] It was great.

[132] Yeah, Tony Hale was in it.

[133] What the news I had heard was that they did the pilot and Fox wanted them to redo it.

[134] Oh, okay.

[135] And then they were like, no. No, thank you.

[136] But thank you so much.

[137] Yeah.

[138] I think after you do your own show, your own way for so long, and then somebody comes in and says like, hey redo this for another three million dollars you're like no we just did it that's what we wanted to do and we've done it if you don't want that then move on dot org yes yes move on dot org for sure but it's also like the chemistry of it right like when jess and i did all of our shit like that was cooked in you know what i mean yeah and when we would go out people were like this is electric you know in the room it's electric because this is who we really are yeah I'm cutting her off.

[139] I'm correcting her.

[140] She's punching up my stories.

[141] Uh -huh.

[142] And we know each other super well.

[143] So it's like baked in and that's how we write as well.

[144] And I think that you get that.

[145] That's part of the package.

[146] Whereas if you're casting a comedy and you're like, I hope these people feel like they're married and that they love each other and that there's a connection we can hang a whole show on.

[147] You know?

[148] There is an intangible magic thing about chemistry that I couldn't define for anyone.

[149] Yeah.

[150] Like Kekner and I, we're so different, right?

[151] We have the same though comedy vocabulary.

[152] So when we start playing, I mean, part of it is just we're having such a good time together.

[153] And he's always trying to make me break because he knows if I laugh.

[154] It was really funny because I'm not going to give him like a courtesy laugh.

[155] And vice versa.

[156] Like I'm always trying to make him break or, you know, say something that he didn't expect.

[157] So that feels good, I think, to watch and be.

[158] witness to.

[159] Well, I also think that when people are having fun, it's palpable.

[160] Yeah.

[161] How did you meet Jessica?

[162] We both did the Upper Citizens Brigade in New York, but she was already on a team when I started taking classes there.

[163] Jessica St. Clair, we should say.

[164] Yeah.

[165] Jessica.

[166] She was on a team already, and then I started, when I moved to New York, I did Second City first.

[167] There was like a sort of like a satellite.

[168] Yeah, a program.

[169] And so I did that first and then.

[170] And then, Then everybody was like, you got to get on a team at UCB because that's where it's at.

[171] That's the fast track.

[172] Yeah, that's the fast track.

[173] That's where there's a home theater where you're going to be performing every week.

[174] That's where all the good people are going.

[175] And I was like, sign me up.

[176] So I went and saw, I saw her do mother, which was her, like, improv team, her legendary improv team.

[177] Oh, it's a legend here?

[178] Yeah.

[179] It is.

[180] Oh, okay.

[181] Scott Armstrong, Mansookas, like all these great people.

[182] Big dogs.

[183] Yeah.

[184] The bigans.

[185] And she was.

[186] also did two -person stuff with Jason like they had a couple written scripted shows and then they had a pilot for HBO as well.

[187] Oh.

[188] Yeah.

[189] Oh.

[190] I think the first time I like spoke to her she was getting a haircut in the back of the stage.

[191] That feels very...

[192] By one of our teachers was giving her like an asymmetrical and I thought all right this is, it's very dark back here like how is he even seeing it?

[193] And then it's kind of an alpha move though right to get your hair styled backstage by your teacher isn't that kind of like a dark feels very vulnerable to me i feels queen of the roosty to me like can you imagine if you went into a studio like it took a medium with a studio president and he was getting his hair trimmed or she was getting her hair trimmed during the media have a scene i'll be right with you so tell me about your project looks good let's go shorter on it and and you said there was a secondary character that reminds me of Mike judge one time told me he Mike judge has the longest list of complaints and they're all wonderful they're all things that like he's putting a voice to you know yeah and one of them is like you ever take a meeting with um like a dog lover and then the dog's all on you and then they make you feel bad for not being into dogs and I was having a anaphylactic shock and the woman said oh are you not a dog person and I did think It is comical to just have a fucking 100 -pound dog in your small office.

[194] And I thought, what if you had a chimpanzee as a pet?

[195] Like, if dogs are on the table, why not anything?

[196] Anything.

[197] The snake squirrels up in between your legs.

[198] Yeah.

[199] What the half, man. Jess and I did have a meeting.

[200] We were pitching our show at the time we were calling it to ladies and a baby.

[201] It changed names to playing house.

[202] But we pitched it to this guy who sat like open, crotch to us like legs akimbo man spreading yeah feet up on the coffee table and there was direct in his crotch a worn down patch where you can see right through oh whoa whoa yeah this is a big time guy too a big time producer name on a lot of shows okay and i was like and then he was like after we did our whole pitch which involved like scenes and stuff like that that we act out in front of you which i don't know maybe five minutes and i was like i don't want to do this anymore like this guy for sure is not going to be a partner that I want to continue with.

[203] Yeah.

[204] But afterwards, he was like, sounds like a multi -cam to me. And I was like, but it, like, it isn't.

[205] Like, we didn't pitch that.

[206] We're not pitching that.

[207] He was like, well, but it would be a great multi -can.

[208] And I'm like, dude, get your dick out of my face.

[209] Can I ask some follow?

[210] Is it your theory that he scratched so much that he had worn the fabric down?

[211] Is that why the fabric was so thin?

[212] I don't know.

[213] It was a light wash. Gene.

[214] I'm guessing his fave pair.

[215] Sure.

[216] There were patches all throughout.

[217] Okay.

[218] So was threadbare in there?

[219] In the gusset?

[220] I think it was both.

[221] I think maybe it was like a fashion choice to have it kind of on the inner thigh.

[222] But then maybe he'd worn them so much and like the friction of it had made the whole move up and up.

[223] Migrate north.

[224] You could see through to thigh slash undies.

[225] Okay.

[226] Just pieces.

[227] Don't put that on a calendar.

[228] Okay, okay, good to know for next year.

[229] It immediately makes me thinking I'm going to not say his name.

[230] A friend of mine did a movie with Matthew McConaughey, and Matthew invited my friend and my friend's cousin to come over to his trailer up on the PCH just to hang for the afternoon.

[231] Yeah.

[232] And when they got there, McConaughey was wearing like a very short cutoff denim shorts.

[233] Yeah, yeah.

[234] And my friend and his buddy get in the car to live.

[235] leave and the buddy says did you see mconehays nuts and he goes oh my god it's all i could see and he goes weren't they fucking beautiful and my friend goes they were so beautiful like they were tan and beautiful and they both just couldn't believe how beautiful his testicles were that's the only reason i tell the story because ultimately they were fucking thunderstruck with how good looking the because the scrotin is ugly now i want to see a photo of that because I'm like I don't believe that I have a perfect picture in my head of it I'm picturing very little wrinkles just taut balls yeah and very tan and smooth are there exercises you can do to tighten up your scrotal sack like I don't if there are you know McConaughey knows them that's true I do imagine like it does like a lot of squats yes and I imagine them like bowl balls just real big testicles were they hanging below the shorts yeah because he was like he was sitting up like this and they were big gapy yeah gapy cut off jean shorts no no panties right and just testicles drooping out so they were long enough that they were hanging below the shorts not necessarily because you know those shorts they pick aside yep that's right well they're gonna land one year being very generous because this is a man short but these are short shorts right these are shorts very shortaneh short shorts textbook McConaughey short shorts textbook McConaug Donna Hayes.

[236] Wow.

[237] That makes me understand his confidence.

[238] Oh, God.

[239] Yeah.

[240] A little bit more.

[241] Does he have kids?

[242] Yeah, yeah.

[243] He's got kids.

[244] A beautiful wife.

[245] Yeah.

[246] I don't think many.

[247] I think like three.

[248] Oh, really?

[249] That's possible.

[250] I don't know.

[251] But I think.

[252] Can't wait to hear the follow up on the Yeah, exactly.

[253] So we know.

[254] Well, we'll find out.

[255] We'll find out.

[256] So, Jess.

[257] So back to Jess.

[258] So then.

[259] Haircut in a dark back room.

[260] Yeah.

[261] So we knew each other like we were in the world together, but she was sort of of a legendary status, right?

[262] And then she, you can check her black and white headshot on the streets of Soho for this.

[263] But she went for pilot season, like ready to get plucked out because she was the singular beauty and all so funny as hell.

[264] And I stayed in New York still doing my thing, right?

[265] And then when I came out for a pilot season, boldly going nowhere, et cetera, we went out to lunch.

[266] I did my one woman show.

[267] She saw it.

[268] We did a yoga class together that was in.

[269] insane, like an advanced teacher.

[270] And we were upside down with like our head on a block, like looking at each other.

[271] Like we'd never, neither one of us ever done yoga and somehow ended up in this level three.

[272] And we just locked eyes and we were like, this is it.

[273] This is forever.

[274] And then we started just improvising while we were eating turkey chili and then came up with an idea.

[275] We were like, should we do this?

[276] Do we want to do this?

[277] Yeah.

[278] We pitched an idea for script and we sold it to HBO and we wrote that for like a year.

[279] And then we were both on.

[280] And then we were both sitcoms at the time.

[281] She was on a show called In the Motherhood, which was Megan Malalley and Cheryl Hines.

[282] Okay.

[283] And her about moms.

[284] That's a lot of firepower.

[285] Yep, yep.

[286] And I was on a show called Accidentally on Purpose where I played Jenna Elfman's weird sister.

[287] But it was a multi -cam.

[288] Oh, okay.

[289] And so for me, it was like a perfect segue into show business.

[290] Because I'd just been doing live shows like four times a week, teaching improv.

[291] And here I am, like, getting to do, like, full monologues in front of a studio audience.

[292] Can I ask, like, so when you met Jessica, she was already on a team.

[293] Yeah.

[294] I'm kind of ignorant on how UCB works.

[295] So how long would it take from the day you walk in the door there until you could be on a team?

[296] Or in, and then your case, and then teaching.

[297] I think this is different now.

[298] But at the time, you had to complete at least three levels before you could even audition for a team.

[299] and they had auditions maybe once or twice a year.

[300] So I was in the fourth level, basically, which was 3B at the time when I auditioned for a team and got on a team.

[301] How long have that taken to go through those three and a half levels?

[302] I started taking classes in 2002, and maybe I got on a team in 2003 at some point.

[303] Oh, okay.

[304] And do women move faster through the program than men?

[305] There are fewer of us in general, but I don't think so.

[306] They're like eight weeks, I think.

[307] Yeah, the classes are eight weeks.

[308] They have intensives now, so you could, like, do a class in two weeks.

[309] Oh, wow.

[310] Like, if I went through the program now, I'm not sure I would have gotten on a team so quickly.

[311] Okay.

[312] Now, I would say the chances of getting on a team never are very high.

[313] But at the groundlings, it was so lopsided with people entering the groundlings.

[314] I don't know what it was, but probably three.

[315] to one men to women yeah so like my sister went through three times faster than I did oh yeah yeah like I was always waiting around for next levels and stuff oh I see yeah yeah no they didn't segregate there just were less women doing it right what I mean but they didn't like hold men back you had to prioritize it like you had to wait on the sidewalk to sign up for classes and you have to be one of the first like whatever 20 people in line to get in the class uh -huh for the whatever you wanted and you have cash in hand yeah uh -huh and your form filled out and all that jazz in that wild it is and then i was on a team for a couple years i was on an eight -person team called dillinger which was a herald team jack woods anthony king another legendary team she can't say that but i can and we had i think we had three women to start with i think it was one of the first teams that had more than one woman on it and So that was fun to do.

[316] Yeah, but people might not know, but I know, which is so exciting, is that you and Monica are Georgia's sisters.

[317] Yeah.

[318] Mirietta.

[319] No. No. It's wrong on Wikipedia.

[320] You're Duluth, right?

[321] We're both Gwinnett County.

[322] Gwinnett County.

[323] Beautiful county.

[324] I grew up in Lilburn.

[325] I was born at Northside Hospital in ATL proper.

[326] My mom works for Northside.

[327] There you go.

[328] Yeah.

[329] And then we moved when I was four to Gwinnett County to Lilburn, which is adjacent to Stone Mountain.

[330] Oh, sure.

[331] Laser show.

[332] Estaging of the Ku Klux Klan comeback.

[333] That's right.

[334] That's right.

[335] Proud history.

[336] Did you go hang there ever, like in your teen years?

[337] Stone Mountain a destination to go like have some cocktails and make out and stuff?

[338] I wasn't part of that hang crew, as it were.

[339] It would be more like we're like making best friends with the dude at Dairy Queen.

[340] or yeah i mean i was at a youth group i was going to the united methodist youth fellowship okay like a christian youth yeah multiple times a week okay and so i had a totally separate friend group from my church to my school that you would meet at the mall yeah yeah i guess we did go to guinette mall oh that was my mall oh wow that's your mall too also the stranger things mall oh it is i didn't know that The ice cream shop and the...

[341] The ice cream shop and the...

[342] Spoiler alert where the creature destroys.

[343] I didn't even...

[344] How the hell did you not recognize that?

[345] Listen, the mall has changed since when I was attending.

[346] It was familiar to me. It looked similar to when I was growing up.

[347] Because they dated it a bit.

[348] Yeah, they made it like an 80s mall.

[349] Yeah.

[350] But some of the pillars, I was like, oh, yeah, I remember that center cut.

[351] I get a feeling, just from watching that stranger thing.

[352] Yeah.

[353] I get a warmth when I see a mall.

[354] like that.

[355] I spent so much time at the mall.

[356] It was so fun.

[357] A lot of walking around, a lot of like window shopping, contempt of casuals.

[358] I definitely was boy crazy, but it wasn't reciprocated.

[359] Okay, no paddy cake.

[360] No, no. So I was, there was a lot of like leering and like, but like every time dances would happen, I would be like, Scott, will you go to home coming with me?

[361] And then he would be like, no. I got three.

[362] No. No. from three different guys for my senior prom.

[363] No. Yes, my friend.

[364] Lennon, I hope they all watch Bless This Mess and fucking cut themselves at they're watching it.

[365] It's, you know, it's not surpriseable.

[366] It's not surpriseable.

[367] Well, it is quite surpriseable.

[368] It's quite very surpriseable.

[369] It really went to seventh grade right then.

[370] No, I looked like I was 12 until I was 24 and then I looked like I was 18.

[371] Yeah.

[372] You know?

[373] You still look 18.

[374] Thank you.

[375] Oh, no. Congrats.

[376] What lane were you in?

[377] Were you funny in, like, junior high in high school?

[378] Yeah, I was always a real weirdo.

[379] Okay.

[380] I always like freak flag fly.

[381] I was like Halloween was my time to shine.

[382] Oh, really?

[383] I would do like seventh grade.

[384] I made my own.

[385] I was inspired by putting on the hits.

[386] Do you remember that show was a lip sync competition show?

[387] No. Oh my God, Google it.

[388] Was it a plan putting on the writs?

[389] Probably.

[390] Sounds like it.

[391] Yeah.

[392] That show has stuck with me in so many ways.

[393] but people would do a lip sync performance.

[394] Like one guy did endless love and painted half of his body, Diana Ross and half of his body, Lionel Richie.

[395] And he would just turn to sing each part.

[396] Oh, I have a visual of that.

[397] So there was a costume on putting on the hits that I was inspired by.

[398] And so in seventh grade, I came as Carmen Miranda, you know, the like Chiquita Banana Lady.

[399] Oh, we know all about her.

[400] Coochee, Coochee.

[401] No, that's Charo.

[402] That's Charo.

[403] Okay, sorry.

[404] Writing on the back of a man. So I built a cardboard box, right, with the head and torso of a man. And then my legs were his legs.

[405] And then I built fake Chiquita Banana Lady legs that hung over his shoulders.

[406] Oh, my goodness.

[407] This sounds overt.

[408] Like, did your parents at all look at it and go like, oh, my God, sweetie.

[409] It's so great.

[410] And in their mind, they were like, what the fuck.

[411] is this what is this no they let me go for it they did they leaned into the weird the weirdness of it i was like i know that this is unusual yeah yeah was this costume a hit i got a photo in the yearbook but i don't i don't think anybody else was as proud of me as i was you didn't like pass a group of people that were in the middle of talking about what a great outfit it was definitely not okay if anything they were snickering about how weird i was did you get a superlative in your yearbook?

[412] No, I was really gunning for the funniest.

[413] Yeah, class clown.

[414] Yeah, and I didn't get it.

[415] Who got it?

[416] I get it.

[417] No, I don't know.

[418] Okay, I hope she's watching Bless this Miss too.

[419] I don't know.

[420] I don't know who that bitch was.

[421] But you probably went out with Scott is my hunch.

[422] Yeah, Scott owns a wine shop in Atlanta now.

[423] Oh, he does.

[424] Yeah, he's doing great.

[425] Yeah, he's doing great.

[426] Yeah, he's doing great.

[427] Yeah, he's doing great.

[428] Yeah, he's doing great.

[429] Yeah, he's doing great.

[430] Good for him.

[431] Yeah, good for him.

[432] He could be in Sunny California with a...

[433] I named a character after one guy asked out, Mark Rodriguez.

[434] That's his real name or that's the name you created for the character?

[435] That's his real name.

[436] Oh, okay, good.

[437] Well, there's so many Mark Rodriguez's.

[438] Yeah, but that was Keegan's character name on Playing House.

[439] Oh.

[440] And we said he was Dominican because my husband is Dominican and so we thought he's past as Dominican.

[441] Sure, sure, sure.

[442] It shows so good.

[443] Thank you.

[444] Now, what did Mom and Dad do?

[445] My mom was a social worker.

[446] So she worked in private practice and out of churches and stuff in marriage and family therapy.

[447] And then got a more corporate job like managing mental health care for bigger companies like Home Depot, et cetera.

[448] Whenever there was a crisis at a home depot, like a employee, a seasonal employee went bananas.

[449] She would swoop in.

[450] They deploy her.

[451] Yeah.

[452] And not to get into any kind of disparaging situation.

[453] with Home Depot, but how frequent was she deployed?

[454] I don't remember.

[455] I think because Home Depot employs so many, I don't want to get a slander against me or whatever, a letter, a cease -and -is letter from HD, but yeah, I think because they employ so many seasonal employees.

[456] Right.

[457] I don't know, there's not a lot of either loyalty or, like, overarching care.

[458] Right.

[459] It's like H &R block all over again.

[460] It's a disposable, you got it.

[461] The opposite of Costco employees, which are the happiest employees in the world they pay them very well they never quit the yeah the managers i remember we were shooting in one in new mexico and this guy was pulling down four 50 a year as the manager of costco and i was like this is phenomenal for everyone i hate Costco oh my god i can't i can't it's a lot too much it's overwhelming well have you ever gone on off hours when it's not uh it does it's not the people it's the products oh it's too it's too much it's too much it's overwhelming stuff.

[462] Oh, okay.

[463] Boy.

[464] Yeah, we're opposite.

[465] And then like the idea that I'm going to have to consume three breadloaves quickly.

[466] Like I just kind of can't handle it.

[467] I don't recommend for perishables.

[468] It gives me anxiety to think about.

[469] But shampoo, mayonnaise, uh, Ziploc bags buying that big fucking thing go, oh my God, I won't be out of these for a year and a half.

[470] What do I do with the other like I don't have enough space in my house to have a second place for Ziplocs?

[471] I didn't either.

[472] I shopped at Costco when I in a one -bedroom apartment.

[473] There were stuff stacked up under tables.

[474] Yeah, no, no, thank you.

[475] Okay, that's not for you.

[476] No, thank you.

[477] And what did your old man do?

[478] He did a couple of things.

[479] When I was born, he worked at DeKalb County Department of Recreation.

[480] And he would like help manage the pools and the softball program, baseball program.

[481] And then he worked for air conditioning company.

[482] HVAC.

[483] Yeah.

[484] And then he worked for Goodman painting and decorating.

[485] They did like IBM Tower downtown when it was like first.

[486] They did the Atlanta airport when it got remodeled.

[487] Career airport.

[488] Yeah.

[489] And he was like an estimator.

[490] So he would go in and do the bid on the project.

[491] Okay.

[492] In all this movement, was it driven by an opportunity to present itself or was he just restless?

[493] Both, I think.

[494] Okay.

[495] I could be wrong.

[496] But I feel like he was taking jobs that would pay him more money that would give me more opportunity.

[497] Right.

[498] Right.

[499] So everything was like.

[500] like an upgrade yes for his salary not necessarily like was it satisfying did it give him joy yes he started to get really into bluegrass music he'd always been a musician he played the drums that's how he paid his way through college playing in a group called the sweet youngans that did like covers of like late 60s songs does that title work today sweet youngens yeah yeah I'll buy it on the fence I mean if we're going to do a calendar for a children's hospital that's true that's the world Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[501] But a dude -heavy band called Sweet Youngens, I think, I don't know, I just think today.

[502] Oh, I see, I see.

[503] You know what I'm saying?

[504] Yeah, maybe.

[505] But, I mean, they were in matching, like, Sergeant Pepper, like, jackets.

[506] Do you know what I mean?

[507] Sure.

[508] So it worked at the time.

[509] Yeah, yeah.

[510] It wasn't overtly sexual or aggressive.

[511] Okay.

[512] But I mean, this is also the era of, like, young girl, get out of my life, you know, which is about a dude having an obsession with a teen girl.

[513] And there were so many songs about that.

[514] that.

[515] Most songs were about that.

[516] Yeah.

[517] I'm a girl watcher.

[518] She was 15 years old.

[519] I don't even know what the song's about, but I have to imagine it's not great.

[520] What are you singing about a 15 year old girl?

[521] Don't say the age.

[522] Why do you have to say the age?

[523] And then that police song references.

[524] Oh, teacher.

[525] Young teacher.

[526] I love that song.

[527] Yeah, it's an older.

[528] And I remember it being rumored growing up because Sting had been a teacher before he was staying that this was some kind of personal situation, right?

[529] The student, she watches.

[530] Like, he's basically saying he's being seduced by...

[531] He wants her.

[532] So badly.

[533] Knows what he wants to be.

[534] And we love...

[535] She is waiting.

[536] Dark bus stop.

[537] Oh.

[538] Oh, gross.

[539] Yeah, she's like at a bus stop and he's in his car.

[540] It's warm and dry.

[541] Oh.

[542] Oh, my gosh.

[543] Yeah, it's problem.

[544] But also like the stuff that all of my romantic dreams were.

[545] Of course.

[546] Monica, too.

[547] I mean, she never was attracted to anyone less than twice her age until recently.

[548] Well, even still.

[549] Mm -hmm.

[550] Mm -hmm.

[551] I had to up my age on Raya so that Brad Pitt could fit nicely in the range.

[552] Oh, God, Pitt.

[553] Well, I got to keep him in.

[554] She saw Hollywood confidential.

[555] Yeah, yeah.

[556] And I always time.

[557] And she immediately got home and changed her Raya to include his age.

[558] That's a real story.

[559] Just in case.

[560] Are you, you want to have a family?

[561] Maybe.

[562] Okay.

[563] Yes and maybe.

[564] You're 32.

[565] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[566] I have some time.

[567] A couple of years.

[568] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[569] For sure, you have time.

[570] Yeah, you have time.

[571] I've offered to freeze her eggs and pay for it, by the way.

[572] Armchair expert as a company has offered to pay for her egg freezing because Netflix does.

[573] Because Netflix pays and my friend got it done because I think it's so cool.

[574] Yeah.

[575] You don't want.

[576] You don't think the employer should be involved with her eggs?

[577] Is that what you're?

[578] I mean, yeah, it was nice that it's covered if the person wants it.

[579] But the sort of underlying lesson there is like, you can keep working.

[580] No, that's not mine.

[581] That is not my.

[582] That is not Netflix.

[583] No, I don't think that's your intention.

[584] Oh, right, right, right, right, right.

[585] But like, you don't have to do this right now.

[586] You have to stop working.

[587] You're just a good job.

[588] Just keep going.

[589] Just keep going.

[590] We'll just plan them up a little later.

[591] Being 16 and coming home from the hospital with your brand new little baby.

[592] You don't want to interrupt your career right now.

[593] You know, you're doing such a great job.

[594] You're climbing the shit out of this ladder.

[595] Yeah.

[596] Do you realize what running?

[597] Look at that glass ceiling.

[598] You're almost there.

[599] You're almost banging her head against that glass ceiling.

[600] Yeah.

[601] I'm not certain about the children.

[602] Okay.

[603] But I want a partner, yeah.

[604] I'm just saying someone in your age range is going to be better to parent with, like, someone within.

[605] Well, let's just start by saying dudes probably are like half is involved when they're your age.

[606] Yeah.

[607] Now you add in some near retirement.

[608] It just gets a little scarier.

[609] Not going to be a full parent partner, like squatting down on the floor and doing tummy time.

[610] Yeah, no tummy time for a 60 -year -old man. I don't know if I'm going to be doing tummy time.

[611] Well, then all the more reason you've got to get even younger.

[612] Yeah.

[613] Is your husband older than you or your age?

[614] He's 11 months older than me. Okay.

[615] First of all, her husband, Javier.

[616] Yeah, Javier.

[617] I asked him not to pronounce it like that.

[618] So I'm sorry.

[619] I kept saying his name this morning in the kitchen.

[620] I kept saying, Habiar.

[621] You say it with a B. I know.

[622] Because I like that Benifuela.

[623] Like I like these letters that are other letters.

[624] Like Barcelona.

[625] Yes.

[626] And I just made the V a B. I feel like it could be Javier.

[627] Like, did he say B or V?

[628] And she was getting offended for you.

[629] Yeah, on your behalf.

[630] But he was on an episode of Bless This Mess and he's a fucking babe.

[631] He's a smokes show.

[632] I'm not surprised.

[633] It's not surprising.

[634] And they had sexy chemistry.

[635] I could feel it.

[636] I was impressed that he was so confident because he's not an actor.

[637] He's never acted.

[638] No, no. And you throw him right into the fire pit.

[639] Wow.

[640] That's impressive.

[641] He's very shy.

[642] He's a true introvert.

[643] Okay.

[644] He's an educator.

[645] He's an educator.

[646] Works for a company called Big Picture Learning.

[647] So he helps schools change models.

[648] Right now he's working with a lot of continuation schools, vocational schools, alternative education.

[649] And they're sort of rerouting like what school looks like, reshaping it reforming it yeah so lake was like you're gonna have to kiss somebody in this scene would your husband want to do it i was like well i don't think so i don't but i'll ask him i'll ask him but i really didn't think he was going to do it and then he said yeah sounds good i was like i'll let you think about it like overnight like let me know what you think in the morning um so like a big question you know you have to take a whole day off from work and and then he was like no i want to do it and i was like i was so nervous i was nervous for him to have a good experience I was nervous for Lake and for the show to get what they wanted.

[650] Yeah, that's a whole thing.

[651] And I never thought in a million years he was ever going to say, yes.

[652] What if he now rocketed past you career -wise?

[653] Oh, my God.

[654] No, thank you.

[655] I want to support him in what he's doing now.

[656] Right.

[657] Not anything beyond that.

[658] Radical career change.

[659] He's so good at what he does too.

[660] Our costume designer was like, like, what's your dream man?

[661] Like, what do you want him in?

[662] And I was like, throw him in a bowl of tie.

[663] I give him some cowboy boots and some tight wranglers.

[664] She did it.

[665] And he did look very handsome.

[666] Yeah.

[667] And a blazer and a bowler.

[668] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[669] What's up, guys?

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[671] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[672] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[673] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real.

[674] conversation, and I don't mean just friends, I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[675] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

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[687] Being from Georgia.

[688] Yeah.

[689] Maybe cowboy boots.

[690] Can you get into that?

[691] I guess.

[692] Like, I think I rebelled against it because it was so prevalent everywhere.

[693] And I felt like it wasn't who I was.

[694] Yeah.

[695] And so I, like, actively did not listen to country music.

[696] I hated it.

[697] Like, I was vocal about not liking it and not liking that sort of, like, like redneck.

[698] Mm -hmm.

[699] Culture.

[700] E -Haw lifestyle.

[701] But I mean, all of my family is from rural Alabama, rural Georgia.

[702] Like, it's as southern as you get.

[703] It's deep south.

[704] And so when I went, when I did teach for America after college and I lived in, like, in the deep, deep south in Mississippi, it was only country radio stations.

[705] Mm -hmm.

[706] And I fell in love with country music.

[707] Did you assess that like, okay, here's the going thing in Georgia.

[708] yeah big blonde hair fat naturals yeah yeah all this stuff like a walking guest ad yes i'm not going to be able to play that game so i'm going to pick another game do you can you remember what was motivating you to kind of reject that did you think just you weren't going to be included in that i mean i think i was trying to be that but like it felt so weird anytime i would do any of that like try on sexuality felt like very foreign and not good But I knew I was funny.

[709] Like maybe because my parents, in my like growing up education, there was not like a separation between adults and children.

[710] Like my mom was very like, I want you to feel like you're on an equal playing level.

[711] And in the South, in the 80s, that wasn't necessarily like cool.

[712] Yeah, kids were so say ma 'am.

[713] So like if I were to have like an adult conversation with an adult as a seven -year -old, that would make the adult very uncomfortable.

[714] Right.

[715] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[716] But I had that sort of, like, weird confidence in my weirdness, like, very early on.

[717] Right.

[718] And it made everyone uncomfortable.

[719] I just felt like I hadn't found my people.

[720] Like, I felt like I needed to go seek those people.

[721] Elsewhere.

[722] And the only thing I could see that it was was theater.

[723] Because that's where I kind of felt like I fit in in my high school, even though it wasn't exactly.

[724] And then senior year, we did comedy sports competition.

[725] and we won.

[726] My school won.

[727] Oh, wow.

[728] And I had like the blow of the whole thing.

[729] Oh, you do.

[730] Yeah.

[731] The big, big blackout line.

[732] Yeah, yeah.

[733] It was one of these improv games where you like, say, freeze and then you add on.

[734] And so you have to like make whatever physicality, the people who are already in the scene doing makes sense with your initiation.

[735] Yeah.

[736] And I was the very last person.

[737] So it was like a lot of freeze.

[738] And then it would be three people, freeze.

[739] And then it would be four people.

[740] And then I was the eighth person and I said freeze and everybody was like washing it.

[741] Hey.

[742] And I think I came out and leaped and started singing, fame.

[743] I'm on a lid.

[744] And then everybody could do it.

[745] And it was like bananas.

[746] Oh, wow.

[747] What a moment.

[748] That's kind of like Monica State Championship.

[749] Oh, I've had a few.

[750] Yeah.

[751] Well.

[752] Just a couple.

[753] So yeah, you went to college and you majored in theater.

[754] Yeah.

[755] You don't have a, this guy has to be wrong on Wikipedia.

[756] You don't have a BS.

[757] Yeah, I do.

[758] Why?

[759] So our school had.

[760] like BS would be like the performance major, like if you did scenic design or something very specific, but I was accepted into the program as what's called a generalist.

[761] And that was someone who could kind of do all of the things and had like good grades in high school.

[762] A Jane of all trades.

[763] Yeah.

[764] What school is this?

[765] University of Evansville in southern Indiana.

[766] Oh.

[767] And so they had like a very good liberal arts theater program and it was like eat sleep and breathe theater.

[768] But I did costume design.

[769] I did directing.

[770] I did acting.

[771] I, you know, I was really pushing the acting thing.

[772] I was like, I know you're accepting me. I said, wait don't you see this.

[773] Yeah, yeah.

[774] I'm actually a specialist, not a generalist.

[775] But, I mean, it was a good overall education.

[776] Yeah.

[777] I felt like, and I think that's why I got a BS.

[778] But that also enabled me to do things like minor in French.

[779] Yeah, so when you got out of college, you went and taught French for two years.

[780] Yeah, yeah.

[781] I auditioned for like a bunch of grad schools for theater.

[782] Like I wanted to get a master's in theater at like Yale Rep or something.

[783] Right.

[784] But they didn't care for that idea as much.

[785] They thought you were more of a generalist.

[786] And I hadn't honed in on the comedy piece, you know?

[787] Right.

[788] Like I had always thought about doing something like a Peace Corps, but that felt real scary to me. And AmeriCorps and Teach for America was like a new program at that time.

[789] It had only been around a couple of years.

[790] And I had been teaching on and off in different various.

[791] ways all my life and I thought maybe this would give me a couple years of growing up that I felt like I would need fortitude before I like hit the main streets in New York and try to sell my wares you know yeah yeah and then so after two years of teaching which was that any sting situations no you know it was interesting because it is the language of love no I was at the time maybe three years older than some of them you know what I mean I'm waiting two years old and I've got seniors who are old who are for seniors, like 18, 19 year old young men who were like on the football team.

[792] Big male bodies.

[793] There was a gentleman named Theodric Scott.

[794] Tell me more.

[795] They also called him Noddy Rock.

[796] Fuck, yeah, they did.

[797] He was a delight, but also a challenge in the classroom.

[798] And so if I did wear like, they noticed everything.

[799] So I was very generic.

[800] I tried to not like instigate anything.

[801] Again, you're three years.

[802] older than them.

[803] I know.

[804] But they don't know that.

[805] They were like, Ms. P., how old are you?

[806] How old are you?

[807] And I was like, I'm not going to tell you that, but I'm 83.

[808] And they would be like, oh, she's 38.

[809] Flip the script, you know.

[810] And I would be like, that's great.

[811] Let them believe what they want to believe.

[812] I'm not available to them in that capacity.

[813] Right.

[814] Notty rock.

[815] He blurred the lines.

[816] He did do some like suck in his teeth and like, but mostly it like.

[817] Suck in his teeth.

[818] No, I kicked him out one time because a student was giving a presentation and he was like oh like looking at looking her looking her up and down and i was like i was like no no no hon out you're out and then he he's like that's just a naughty rock dude yeah and then he goes outside and i was teaching my mine i had half of a double wide trailer t l west in high school in greenville mississippi and so he goes out the door and like five minutes later, I just see the top half of him jumping up above the window.

[819] And he's like, Miss Pete, you're prejudiced against men.

[820] Your prejudice against men.

[821] I was like, no, no, no. Anyway, it was like when I got to New York after teaching high school for two years, I was like, bring it fucking on.

[822] Yeah.

[823] There is nothing harder in the whole world than teaching and teaching high school.

[824] And you were not.

[825] living in rural Mississippi by yourself?

[826] When I moved there, I had a roommate, other people, other teachers.

[827] So we got like a little tiny house, which was like the nicest place I'd ever lived.

[828] It was like the cost of living there is nothing.

[829] Yeah.

[830] I did start dating while I was there.

[831] One of the other teachers?

[832] No. Well, I met him doing community theater.

[833] Oh.

[834] Yeah, yeah.

[835] Wonderful.

[836] Wonderful.

[837] So like after the first semester, when I was like drowning in depression, I was like, I got to do something that's for me because I can't just like chain smoke on my paddy.

[838] to get over this shit because it was hard it was very hard did the teachers party hard like in this house you guys get home from that day of school my my roommate was not not of that ilk like she would more like work her anxiety out through like stuffed peppers or whatever sure but i yeah i mean we would go out there was like a place called the howjoy chinese restaurant that had a lounge attached oh this yeah yeah and uh and there was karaoke every Friday and saturday night so you could find me there very frequently.

[839] This is a weird mix of like it sounds depressing and it sounds like heaven to me. Until I found that outlet and then I was doing like the community theater productions of Narnia except smoke on the mountain.

[840] And you had a lover.

[841] Yeah, yeah.

[842] You had some good strong drinks at the Chinese restaurant.

[843] And then I had like my go -to karaoke songs.

[844] Journey.

[845] Fancy by Reba McIntyre.

[846] Oh.

[847] Yeah.

[848] I was doing a lot of Pat Benatar.

[849] Oh, sure.

[850] Wait, was this boyfriend your first real boyfriend?

[851] No. In college.

[852] College, yeah.

[853] My first love was in college.

[854] Where did he go on to?

[855] He's a working actor.

[856] He is.

[857] He's very successful.

[858] He's very successful.

[859] He works.

[860] Yeah, he works.

[861] Have you ever bumped into him at work?

[862] At audition?

[863] At a Chipotle in Union Square.

[864] Okay, well, that's a little different.

[865] I was imagining you get to work and you find out your scene.

[866] partner is your ex.

[867] Oh, no, no, no. Amicable split or a heartbreaking split?

[868] Broke up and then we got back together, but he was with my friend.

[869] It was not, it was nasty.

[870] Well, I hope he's watching Bless This Mess and is also upset.

[871] Oh, I'm sure he's giving it a toss.

[872] Everyone's upset when they're watching Bless This Mess.

[873] There's so many people are pissed when they watch Blessess Miss. So really quick, the big choice to move to New York.

[874] Was there like a moment where you're like, I'm fucking doing this Laverne and Shirley style?

[875] I knew it was going to be either New Yorker.

[876] L .A. for a long time.

[877] I got a U -Haul.

[878] My mom and I actually drove the U -Haul up the coast and like drove across like the Verrazano Bridge.

[879] It was so nerve -wracking.

[880] Was she scared for you?

[881] She was terrified.

[882] Yeah.

[883] But she never let on.

[884] Oh, that's nice.

[885] That's one thing that I hope to be able to do because I think about what it must have felt like for her to let me go.

[886] To turn your little country girl over to Oh my God.

[887] Thinking about letting my children go do something like that.

[888] I mean, I'm so like before she goes out the door to an ice skating lesson, I'm like, okay, let's talk about this.

[889] Let's cover some bases.

[890] If this happens, let's do, you know, and there was just none of that fear.

[891] I didn't feel that fear from them.

[892] There was something in me that was just like, let's do this.

[893] So how long in total was that stretch.

[894] I was in New York from 2000 to 2010, but in 2008 I started coming to L .A. And then I got a job here, so I would be here for like three weeks and then go back to Brooklyn for a week.

[895] And when did you meet Javier?

[896] Like a month after I moved there.

[897] No way.

[898] Yeah.

[899] Doing what?

[900] Teaching.

[901] So I got a job as an advisor to a group of incoming teachers for the New York equivalent of the Teach for America program.

[902] Okay.

[903] And it was a bunch of TFA alumni.

[904] I that were running it.

[905] And so they knew me and they knew that I knew what I was doing.

[906] And so they hired me. And I would like for a month in the summer in July and August, we would go to grad school level classes and I would do like two hours of lesson planning and grade books and classroom management stuff.

[907] And we would do role playing and practice lessons and all this stuff.

[908] And he was one of the 25 teachers.

[909] Most of them were like in their 20s and 30s and they were like leaving whatever job they had to go teach public school.

[910] Or in his case, he'd been teaching private middle school, and now he was going to be teaching public school.

[911] And the program paid for you to get your master's.

[912] So all these people were going to Brooklyn College at the same time and getting a master's degree in, he got it in poetry.

[913] We took enough education credits to make it count.

[914] Uh -huh.

[915] That makes sense.

[916] Uh -huh.

[917] So when you guys decided to move to L .A. permanently, was that hard for him?

[918] He moved to New York when he was five from the Dominican Republic, and he'd been in Brooklyn 25 years at that point.

[919] Oh, wow.

[920] Yeah.

[921] So we got married.

[922] I think we were like 30, 31 when we got married, and we met when we were 25.

[923] And, I mean, that was where all his family was, got four brothers, mother, like cousins, I have to imagine a very tight family.

[924] Yeah.

[925] And I felt like it wasn't allowed to ask, really.

[926] but I knew my career was like bringing me out here and at the same time that I got my first like accidentally on purpose series picked up to series and Jess and I were writing the script he became a principal of a brand new high school that he had created in Brooklyn.

[927] This has divorce written all over it.

[928] And so we're both like having these big moments.

[929] Our relationship was never.

[930] built on really being together all the time.

[931] Like even when we were living together, I was waiting tables three nights a week, doing shows one night a week, teaching one night a week.

[932] There was maybe like a Tuesday night, maybe then like the four hours that we overlapped in the bed because I would get home at 2 a .m. from waiting tables and he would have to leave for school at 6 .30.

[933] You know, so we never said to each other, like, you got to change what you're doing for me. And any time that that happened or that leaned into I think we both were like hey this is who I am this is what makes me happy this is what I have to do right don't make me feel guilty for needing to do this yeah now I couldn't do that I'm too needy it was really really hard for both of us we're not good on the phone and we would Skype and we would just be like it was just so much to catch up on too like so much it happened in my day and to catch him up and it seems so minuscule my problems and like which agent should I pick?

[934] And he's like dealing with like these kids every day, you know, like real shit.

[935] But I would go home.

[936] I would be home for like a couple months at a time, sometimes, you know.

[937] But it looked like everything was leaning towards this is where my work is going to need to be.

[938] But if he had said to me, I can't move to L .A., like I have to be here.

[939] I would have been like, okay, we'll make it work.

[940] Okay.

[941] I'll get a job here.

[942] I'll just say no to L .A. stuff this we interviewed this guy too who's a negotiating expert yeah FBI hostage negotiator yeah like just giving someone immediately the opportunity to say no yeah can somehow make every like like like if Kristen comes on us we're going to Atlanta for four months I'm like I'm not but if she comes up as like they offered me to go to Atlanta for four months we don't have to do that yeah then I'm like okay well then I start trying to find my way into how we could yeah that makes sense yeah there's some there's some kind of magic power like so maybe just the fact that he knew you wouldn't have picked it over him yeah he said like maybe we should go like maybe we should move this seems like it's going to keep happening and i want to be near you and i was like and i want to be near you like we love each other yeah and then after he made that decision and he had given his notice i could not stop sobbing because i was like i'm forcing him to do this and i call my mom and my mom was like have you ever known him to do something he doesn't want to do like good mom he has his own choice here yeah he wants to go he's trying this thing maybe he wants to leave brooklyn who knows why but he wants to go so stop carrying that because that's not yours to carry and i was like okay okay and then i i thought his family was going to be really upset and his mom kind of sets the tone for all of that his mom has passed away since but she was amazing the matriarch yeah when we told her that we were leaving was like good you should be together you're married and i was like good moms and so we came out here and i was so nervous he was going to hate it well i would be nervous at two things one one he's going to hate it be um oh my god now i have to succeed at this right the pressure is like i moved us all the way out here and now if i don't get work well interesting enough literally he'd given his notice two weeks and they passed on my HBO pilot and my TV show got canceled.

[943] Oh, oops.

[944] And I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

[945] And so Jess and I were like, okay, what's the next thing?

[946] What's the next thing?

[947] And then we just were moving forward with it.

[948] And then he worked for big picture at the time, the high school that he started in Brooklyn was a big picture learning model high school.

[949] And so when they found out he was moving to L .A., they were like, we have a high school in L .A. when you come and visit.

[950] And so he went and visited.

[951] It's this all -girls charter school that was at the time about 40 % pregnant or parenting girls.

[952] It's in Filipino town.

[953] It's like a phenomenal high school.

[954] And so he flew out and fell in love with that.

[955] And so that helped a lot.

[956] And then we came out to look for apartments and Jess and I took our new idea around a production companies and that was what became best friends forever.

[957] Yeah.

[958] And so a pretty crazy thing for you guys to get your own show at that point.

[959] On NBC?

[960] And they order it?

[961] Yes.

[962] That's pretty bonkers.

[963] Yeah, it was for ourselves to star in.

[964] And that was after a couple pilot seasons of us both going out for like me, the weird one and her the like bitchy girlfriend.

[965] And we were like, ah, this doesn't feel right.

[966] Like women aren't just these two things.

[967] We're all of those wrapped up in one.

[968] Yeah.

[969] I'm all of those things at any given time.

[970] So we turned it in and they.

[971] really liked it but it was like the last thing to get picked up of all the pilots and they were like we only have 500 ,000 dollars left so will you make like a seven minute sizzle reel and we were like we'll make a pilot and they were like we can't do that it's only 500 ,000 dollars and we were like we've been doing comedy for free in a basement we can do it yeah and so we did we made the pilot and they loved it and then they picked it up to series but also like it was kind of kind of a low budget series.

[972] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[973] Now, the pressure of running a show...

[974] Yeah, nearly killed us, the first season.

[975] I was just going to say, that's a huge learning curve.

[976] I didn't have kids yet, thank God.

[977] I had a husband that I just moved across the country and was ignoring to write a television show about best friendship.

[978] Yeah, it was hard.

[979] Our studio was actually next door to his school.

[980] it was Occidental Studios, which is literally next door to his high school.

[981] That's helpful.

[982] So there were times I would like walk out and go like, I need to see, you know, let me get eyes on you.

[983] It was hard.

[984] Like I don't know what I'm good at.

[985] I just wrote a pilot for the first time.

[986] Like before that, I only had written like essays and like a one woman show.

[987] Yeah, and some sketches.

[988] So like I don't know what makes a compelling story.

[989] Jess's husband, Dan is a playwright and studied playwright.

[990] So he would be like, guys, this isn't a scene.

[991] This doesn't have a conflict in it.

[992] You know what I mean?

[993] And we would be like, but it's funny.

[994] Look at this.

[995] And he was like, yeah, but nobody's going to care if it doesn't drive forward a character moment, you know.

[996] Right.

[997] And so he was super duper helpful to us and patient.

[998] We were there insane hours.

[999] We were there every weekend.

[1000] Both of us ended up in the ER at one point for food poisoning or in my case all over body hives.

[1001] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[1002] Which I think was just like.

[1003] adrenal fatigue.

[1004] I don't know.

[1005] I mean, at the time, I was like I had gotten a massage and I blamed it on the expired Victoria's Secret Body lotion.

[1006] I think it was just because we were two times in the ER for that.

[1007] Two times.

[1008] Yeah.

[1009] Set doctor came.

[1010] I started to get them all over my back and my arms.

[1011] And he gave me three days of prednisone, which took me through.

[1012] We got to Brooklyn to shoot for a week.

[1013] And the prednisone wore off.

[1014] And they came back worse all over my entire body fevered chills spent the afternoon in the urgent care slash ER at an upper east side hospital because that's where Jessica's brother who was an eye surgeon told us to go worked the next day and then the next day they came back even worse all over my face and my mouth oh oh oh and that's when we went back to the ER and I was like in the ER overnight yeah on on IV's et cetera.

[1015] How, I don't want to get too far in the weeds, but how do mouth hives feel horrendous?

[1016] It's like, it just feels swollen.

[1017] It feels like everything is swelling up.

[1018] And that's the fear is that your throw is going to swell shut and you're not going to be able to breathe.

[1019] And this is clearly just stress, right?

[1020] I think so.

[1021] Yeah.

[1022] I have found, like, I hate to acknowledge it, but when I have bouts of arthritis, I'm always so focused on my diet, which certainly does impact it.

[1023] Yeah.

[1024] But really, I think it's more related to stress.

[1025] Yeah.

[1026] Was it New York Presbyterian?

[1027] I don't know.

[1028] I don't honestly know.

[1029] It could have been.

[1030] Upper East Side?

[1031] Yeah.

[1032] Like 70 of something.

[1033] Oh, right.

[1034] For your seizure, you went there.

[1035] You liked it, right?

[1036] I loved it.

[1037] Yeah.

[1038] It's my favorite.

[1039] You know, slice a pizza and good bagel.

[1040] Is this how it works?

[1041] I don't go to, I don't frequent my hospital.

[1042] So I was really like.

[1043] You're an ER situation?

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] I was like on a cot in the middle, like by the nursing station.

[1047] Yes, that's, yes.

[1048] It was like all the people that like were dying were like in the cordoned off like curtains rooms.

[1049] And I was just like in the hallway, like with Benadryl surging through my.

[1050] Oh, wow.

[1051] And you were in the hallway too.

[1052] Because they didn't think you were going to die.

[1053] They decided I wasn't going to die.

[1054] But you don't feel that way.

[1055] At the time, you feel like I'm for sure going to die.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] I just died.

[1058] and got brought back to life.

[1059] And you're there?

[1060] By yourself.

[1061] No, mom's there.

[1062] Kristen was with me. Thank God.

[1063] Yeah, I remember reading a Bill Murray interview, I don't know, 12 years ago.

[1064] And, you know, he generally doesn't love being famous.

[1065] His quote is always like, if you're thinking about becoming rich and famous, I just recommend the rich part.

[1066] But he said the one really nice thing about being famous is you do get treated really nice at the hospital.

[1067] And especially when you go with your kids, they kind of tend to really give you that attention.

[1068] And I always remembered that.

[1069] And I've found that to be.

[1070] true a couple different times.

[1071] Yeah, one of the neurologists did like this show.

[1072] Oh, really?

[1073] It told me so, which I appreciated that.

[1074] And then you feel like, oh, they're really going to care.

[1075] Now they care about my well -being because she likes this show.

[1076] She wants it to go on.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] And then another one came and said, I'm like, I heard I'm supposed to listen to your podcast.

[1079] Yes, leave the room, go listen to a few and then come back and tell me what's going on.

[1080] Okay, so now when it got canceled then, were you relieved because it had been so stressful and so much work or were you heartbroken?

[1081] I was devastated.

[1082] You were devastated.

[1083] Totally devastated because I think I believed so much in it.

[1084] And, you know, it was the first time I was getting fan response.

[1085] When our fans like our stuff down into their deepest cells, like they recognize themselves in it.

[1086] They've never seen this on screen portrayed in such a way.

[1087] So like we were getting these like love letters.

[1088] And I was like, Like, well, if this is the case, and, you know, it must be widespread or whatever.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] We were placed after Off Their Rockers, which was the elderly prank show hosted by Betty White.

[1091] That was when we aired.

[1092] Of course.

[1093] The show did not do well after that, a nuanced best friend comedy.

[1094] Right, right, right.

[1095] Did not do well.

[1096] I was really proud of the show.

[1097] We did end up putting out, I think, what, like, the best version of that at the time that it could have been.

[1098] And what you set out to do.

[1099] Yeah.

[1100] The first thought, honestly, that crossed my mind was I got to have something else in my life besides this.

[1101] Oh, yes.

[1102] My happiness cannot depend on someone else making a choice for me. Yes.

[1103] And I was like, I'm going to get pregnant.

[1104] Oh, so that was a response to that.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] And it works, though, right?

[1107] It totally works.

[1108] It does, right?

[1109] I mean, it's still there.

[1110] Those things that your anxieties, they are all there, but they kind of get.

[1111] checked like the first audition I went on after having Soraya felt so good because the priority was like I'm going to go in I would have like spiraled after that I would have like second guessed all of the choices that I made in that audition before I had her yeah right but this it was for Fargo I remember I went in somewhere off sunset casting office weird place and then I I went in the first season of Fargo yeah first season I did the audition it went well.

[1112] I left.

[1113] I got on my car.

[1114] I checked my phone to see if I gotten any alerts about my daughter.

[1115] I drove straight home.

[1116] I wanted to see her.

[1117] I couldn't wait to see her.

[1118] Yeah.

[1119] I didn't think about Fargo again.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] So I went to Home Depot when Lincoln was about eight weeks old.

[1122] And I had been sitting in a bed staring at her for eight weeks.

[1123] And when I went to Home Depot, I was like I felt like I was at Montegro.

[1124] Like I was fucking out of this house.

[1125] It was like a party just cruising the aisles and looking at shit.

[1126] I remember being elated there.

[1127] because I had just left this responsibility.

[1128] So also like even going to an audition when you have an eight -week -year -old, it's a little bit of a like, ooh, I'm on a little break here.

[1129] Yeah.

[1130] So you're just kind of in a better mood.

[1131] Then it's just about you got to go and do that for 20 minutes of your day, which is, that's its own reward as opposed to before.

[1132] It's the only point of it is to get the job and everything.

[1133] Right, right, right.

[1134] Yeah, no, I think there was some of that.

[1135] And also like, I was nervous that I wasn't going to be funny anymore or that I wasn't going to like care about it or that I was only going to want to be a mom now.

[1136] And that totally, I mean, things got crystal clear.

[1137] Like, I remember when I had a two or three day old, before I gave birth, I had auditioned for Eastbound and Down, which is one of my all -time favorite shows.

[1138] Mm -hmm.

[1139] I feel like you're made to be with Danny McBride in some capacity.

[1140] I'm going to find him and attack him.

[1141] I did, I'm going to digress for a second, but Owen Burke, who works for the Will Ferrell Adam McKee Company, Gary Sanchez.

[1142] He was a UCB, old school UCB guy.

[1143] And I had been here for a couple weeks, I think, just going back and forth.

[1144] And he called me and he was like, hey, can you come do this table read?

[1145] Here's the address.

[1146] It's tomorrow morning at 9 .30.

[1147] I roll in thinking it's like a play table read.

[1148] Like we're just going to hear it out loud for the actors, right?

[1149] Not even like full hair and makeup, just like an old ratty dirty t -shirt.

[1150] I walk into the room and it's the table read for Eastbound and Down episodes two and three.

[1151] Oh, my goodness.

[1152] Will Ferrell was there, the president of HBO, Chris Rock at one point walked in, but I had not even seen the scripts ahead of time.

[1153] He was like, I just need you to read it like some of the auxiliary roles.

[1154] Well, the auxiliary role that he needed me to play was the super white trash girlfriend, the one that's like topless on a jet ski.

[1155] Yeah.

[1156] And I have the very first scene of the episode, and it's me screaming it, Kenny Powers.

[1157] How dare you fucking leave me, you piece, trash you asshole you know and then i like i start looking and it's just like a four -page scene with just me and danny mcbride and i was like what am i going to do like i have to do it yeah yeah anyway it was it went well yeah and i was like at home and it felt like amazing so they offered me a part i had like a three -day old and i was going to have to go for five weeks oh and i and i was like no like immediately just like without hesitation i can't do that yeah And that was the first time ever I had an easy know.

[1158] And on a something that I was like, you know, obsessed with.

[1159] And he had been like actively seeking out.

[1160] But I was like, I just know this is more important right now.

[1161] This is where I have to be.

[1162] But by the way, isn't it interesting?

[1163] Like it takes caring about some little things so much that you'd treat yourself in a way that maybe you could have treated yourself.

[1164] It's like it gives you this weird confidence to do that.

[1165] There's something more important than me. Yeah, yeah.

[1166] And I am charged with making sure that this person is okay in the world.

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] And I can't do that if I'm, like, laughing my rocks off in Wilmington, North Carolina, or wherever.

[1169] Right.

[1170] And Jessica also had a kid of a similar age.

[1171] She got so mad at me when I got pregnant.

[1172] She was, like, pissed off because I think she felt tied to me, right?

[1173] And that this was going to make me essentially unavailable to her.

[1174] She also had the fear that I was going to just drop.

[1175] off the face of the earth and only want to be, because I was like super into being pregnant.

[1176] Yeah, yeah.

[1177] I was like midwifing it up, obsessed.

[1178] Like totally like, oh my God, you guys, you know that your body temperature changes.

[1179] Like if the baby gets cold, you're like body temperature will raise to help the baby's temperature.

[1180] Like I was just into all the details of it.

[1181] Oh my God.

[1182] Amazing.

[1183] Okay.

[1184] So then you do, you do 26 episodes of playing house.

[1185] Yeah.

[1186] And do you get into a rhythm and learn how to work and learn how to manage all that stuff?

[1187] Yeah, I think we got better and better every year.

[1188] We got better at like hiring people to support us, like better at delegating, like trusting people to do their job.

[1189] And you know, like you just have this feeling like you want them to know exactly what's in your brain.

[1190] You know what I mean?

[1191] But then if you don't leave them room to do what they're great at, there's something missing and you're like, why do I have this amazing person who's great at their job?

[1192] So that takes a while to learn.

[1193] Yeah, I agree.

[1194] Yeah.

[1195] It is hard to trust people.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] Now, I'm I want to talk about the fact that I'm jealous of you in a couple ways.

[1198] What?

[1199] Because you're in all the fun comedy clubs.

[1200] Like, you're on curb.

[1201] That just happened, though.

[1202] I don't care.

[1203] I'm not on curb.

[1204] And then Veep, you're in Veep, which is the greatest cast ever assembled in a comedy.

[1205] Yeah.

[1206] The first time I auditioned for that, Jess got the part.

[1207] Okay.

[1208] Yeah, to playing Tony Hale's girlfriend.

[1209] Uh -huh.

[1210] And then I auditioned again.

[1211] And that was like the first time I ever had an audition.

[1212] where I was like, if I don't get this, I'll be okay, because this audition was better than anything.

[1213] It was Julia, Louis Dreyfus was there.

[1214] She was there.

[1215] I knew the script, right?

[1216] But then they were like, can we just play around?

[1217] And I was like, yeah.

[1218] But it was in character as this woman who's like super wishy -washy.

[1219] And so it was like hard to improvise that.

[1220] Because like a lot of times improv is funny for me and the specifics.

[1221] And like her game is that she never gives specifics.

[1222] She won't commit to anything.

[1223] And so I left there like on such a high.

[1224] And I was like, if I don't get this job, I will have had that moment.

[1225] Yes, yes, yes.

[1226] Like where I was like playing with the big dogs and like able to hold my own.

[1227] And it felt like so electric.

[1228] But ego wise, how is it to have be the creator and runner of your show and then come in and play K. Is that hard ego -wise initially or you don't care?

[1229] It's not hard for me ego -wise.

[1230] I don't think.

[1231] I think we had just wrapped like season two or something and I did horrible bosses too.

[1232] I play like the sex therapist that's leading the like sex obsessed group.

[1233] And they were setting up the chairs or something and I was there and the AD asked somebody a question and I was like, oh, there's there should be nine chairs in here.

[1234] There's nine people in this scene.

[1235] and he looked at me like what the fuck are you like what you know what I mean like I I thought oh right right right right this isn't my show like it was it's hard to turn that off yes but it had been long enough when I started bless this mess I hadn't been like telling everybody what to do for a while you know so it wasn't super hard yeah but like when I directed yes the first one I was a little nervous about like after the table read and they're all sitting around doing notes I'm like most of the directors I think they leave and then certainly like I'm not sure if they're asking those people about the story the guest directors yeah and they weren't asking me either but I just started talking like because we were talking about your the mic storyline and like tracking it and how it's so internal and I was like I'd really love to see that physicalize so I can tell that story to the audience because they're not going to be in his head and as I was talking And I was like, is this my place?

[1236] Right, am I out of, like, my director role here?

[1237] Yeah.

[1238] Afterwards, after I spun out for a little bit.

[1239] I was like, no, like, that's my superpower.

[1240] I think I did this, like in this role of EP, story, creator, and actor, like, and director.

[1241] So I think that you would want that.

[1242] And if they don't want it, they can always say, like, we're good, no thanks, you know.

[1243] For sure.

[1244] But you like it.

[1245] You like directing our show.

[1246] I love it.

[1247] You love it?

[1248] I love it.

[1249] I love our crew.

[1250] Like, they're my family.

[1251] And I love all you guys.

[1252] Uh -huh.

[1253] And everybody's so good and they come prepared.

[1254] Well, you and Kekner's stuff is by far my favorite stuff in the show.

[1255] It's always the thing that'll make me laugh out loud is you and Kekner.

[1256] So are you going to do a bunch next season?

[1257] Direct?

[1258] Yeah.

[1259] If they ask me, I'll do as many as they let me. You will?

[1260] Yeah.

[1261] I also like my weeks off when I'm just an actor.

[1262] There we go.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] yeah yeah yeah right now jess and i were thinking about what is the next project we're going to do and we just come off playing house i was so tired yeah i mean when we started season three i had a two month old hey oh okay and it was the whole season was about jess's real struggle with cancer which we had just gone through in real life and when we wrote it i was eight months pregnant so like I was tired.

[1265] Now, when you think of your identity markers, the things that you're proud of, is UCB a UCB person right at the top?

[1266] Yeah, UCB for life.

[1267] UCB for life.

[1268] Yeah, I think I was saying this to you the other week.

[1269] If any of those guys that I was like in a van across country, like doing shows in middle and nowhere, Ohio were to call me and say, I wrote something for you, I would not read it.

[1270] I would not look at the contract.

[1271] I would just be like, where and when.

[1272] Yes.

[1273] Like we just, we went through it.

[1274] Like, some of those people make me laugh harder than anybody in the whole world.

[1275] And so when we write, too, we're writing those people like Zach Woods.

[1276] I write for him.

[1277] Like, he was on my very first improv team.

[1278] I feel like he is my brother.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] He's so fucking funny.

[1281] He's a genius at improv.

[1282] He's a genius at everything.

[1283] He was going to be a jazz trumpettist.

[1284] Oh, my goodness.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] That was like his thing.

[1287] And then he found UCB and he was like, oh, no, I'll do this instead.

[1288] And he was 18 when he got on Dillinger.

[1289] Like he had been coming after high school to take UCB classes, getting on the transit from Trenton, New Jersey or wherever.

[1290] He was, yeah.

[1291] Ronan, he's a real wonderkin.

[1292] A wonderkin.

[1293] Like Vonn and Ferro.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] So, like, writing for those people.

[1296] And for playing house, it was just like wriggle, McBrere, you know, just all of them.

[1297] Manzukas.

[1298] Yeah.

[1299] Who you shared drumming with.

[1300] Yes.

[1301] We did a whole scene where we like.

[1302] had a conversation in snare drum so like and were you falling in love in the scenes he was like my high school crush uh -huh which is also based on a real person in my high school that was on the drum line that i was like obsessed with he was his own trench -coated man oh wow he was a mormon and so my dream was because every friday night their youth group would get together and do like swing dancing and I was like oh my god like if he asked me to go I could show him I know how to swing dance and then I'm the perfect girlfriend that never happened he went on to do whatever I guess get a family as you said you went to Christian youth and all that stuff and then you went to New York and did UCB any mismatch of kind of hard partying a lucy -goosey lifestyle did you ever feel like oh i don't know if i can join this club it's a little too fast or you were ready to put it in fourth gear and stand on it as well i wasn't like my group was really like we were nerds about improv and like our parties were like rafting down rivers together do you know what i mean like it was not i waited tables like one night that i went out like hard hard was it was just drinking though uh -huh and i went out after work with the crew the bartender and we went to China Club.

[1303] Do you remember that?

[1304] It was like a club was terrible.

[1305] And we were in the VIP section and I was like, this is amazing.

[1306] Like, I think it was just like a lot of cranberry vodka or so, you know what I mean?

[1307] I was always too terrified that I was going to lose control.

[1308] I just, all I wanted was a little bit of lubricant and get this body move and all the dance for.

[1309] I was always worried I was going to do something that I would regret.

[1310] But we did that night, we went out we closed it there was four of us four women and our manager this sounds like an ideal sting song and so we we went to the china club and then we went back to our bar he he opened up and then we just drank there oh fun ended up doing body shots off of each other oh my goodness i i don't think i did the body shot but there were body shots happening in front of me because I was in a committed relationship with my now husband.

[1311] And so I got in a cab but don't really remember it.

[1312] When I got home, the sun was coming up and I was like that stumbling up the stairs zigzag style like rolling into the wall and the staircase and then open the door and he was up getting ready for work.

[1313] It did not go well.

[1314] I can't imagine.

[1315] Did not go well.

[1316] Because I got to get I got to get about to Javier for just having the confidence to date you and marry you because you're, I'm being serious, there couldn't be anything more threatening than someone engulfed in comedy world.

[1317] Why?

[1318] Because how are you going to compete with that?

[1319] Like it's such an insular inside jokes, doing bits, making each other laugh.

[1320] He's not, he doesn't care about that.

[1321] He's not of that.

[1322] I know, but that takes a lot of confidence.

[1323] Anytime we hang out, it's like we just, it's like we keep that separate kind of.

[1324] Like, we don't all hang out together.

[1325] It's, you know what I mean?

[1326] Yeah, to spare him.

[1327] Yeah, yeah.

[1328] Partially, yeah, and me and also everybody.

[1329] I mean, we do go out now in groups more so, but like at that point, it would have been annoying.

[1330] I think of poor Brie, my girlfriend.

[1331] Four fucking improvres in the kitchen post show talking about every line they said.

[1332] Oh, what could be more nauseating?

[1333] God bless her.

[1334] God bless Javier.

[1335] But I just think, yeah, I just think that the person I loved was in love with some other thing that I had no inroad into.

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] That takes confidence.

[1338] But he is also quite funny.

[1339] He is.

[1340] He's not just like a serious kind, foxy educator.

[1341] He is also super weird and funny.

[1342] Uh -huh.

[1343] And I think I help him unlock that.

[1344] And so to our kids.

[1345] And a lot of times his family and friends will see that and be like, who is this?

[1346] this guy.

[1347] And I'm like, this is who he always was.

[1348] You know what I mean?

[1349] Yeah, yeah.

[1350] And it's funny because my kids say he's the funny one.

[1351] Oh, they do.

[1352] And I'm like, okay, and who's getting paid to do funny?

[1353] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1354] Well, Lennon, I love you.

[1355] I think you've been the most exciting new person I've met in like three years.

[1356] Yeah.

[1357] Yeah.

[1358] Getting to know you on that show, I love it.

[1359] We have so much.

[1360] I was nervous when I first, you're, I don't believe.

[1361] You were intimidated?

[1362] I don't believe.

[1363] Yeah.

[1364] I would have never been friends with you.

[1365] I was.

[1366] I was you in high school like you know like you're well hold on though we probably would have been uh -uh i'll tell you why no way i'll tell you why if you were weird i was captain weird so if we were in a science class together this is what i had a lot of friends that were in the marching band world i didn't go out on saturday nights with them but i had a lot of friends in class because if you were weird and funny then i was with you this is what happened in the ninth grade there was a you at my lab table okay and he came over to study just you too just you too only that's correct okay he's a very handsome he um and we were giggling and like sort of studying or whatever and i think like something was about to happen and we sort of like toppled over onto the love seat and then i was just like oh my god you know like just like immediately made it so weird and like what was that what are we just doing here like so unsamely.

[1367] sexy and like oh and then never like never it was just not yeah yeah oops not ever happening he's watching bless this mess and he's also upset yeah we know I have this affinity for you because you remind me so much of my two girl cousins Mandy and Kelly who are sisters who I spent every summer with yeah and they were fucking weird as hell like I was and we were all weird as hell and I think when I met you I was like oh my god this she's one of the McGoldrick sisters.

[1368] She's like very genuinely funny and weird and voice.

[1369] So you and I really we have quite a good time on that set, don't we?

[1370] I do.

[1371] I have a great time with you.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] And I really had phone with Jessica visited.

[1374] Yeah.

[1375] I was like this dynamic here.

[1376] Yeah.

[1377] Like we had this, uh, that fucking dinner table scene.

[1378] Kitchen dinner table scene.

[1379] Yeah.

[1380] We just went on and on and on.

[1381] Some of the takes were 20 minutes long and it was, I felt like I was back at the ground.

[1382] We were like in a play together.

[1383] Yeah.

[1384] But laughing.

[1385] so it was electric it was it was so fun and it really did bring me back to like oh the joy of being funny together with people yeah without any of the other thoughts yeah it's wonderful yeah that's a good feeling well i love you and um i'm very excited i'm on a show with you and i'm it looks most certain that we will come back and do more together yeah and you'll direct a bunch yeah it'll be great okay all right i love you love you guys and now my favorite part of the show the fact with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1386] Okay, I'm recording, and you can hear me?

[1387] I can hear you.

[1388] Oh my God, this is so exciting.

[1389] Our first intergalactic fact check.

[1390] Wow, it's really 2020 that we're able to do this.

[1391] And this is going to be virtually how we do everything going forward.

[1392] For the next couple months, probably.

[1393] The next couple years, yeah.

[1394] Do you think we'll all just be in pods?

[1395] I will say that the response is bigger than I was expecting.

[1396] I didn't think this country would, like, cancel the March madness.

[1397] I know.

[1398] That seems big.

[1399] People are taking it seriously, which seems good.

[1400] I saw a graph today that was sort of showing that we are at, like, the exact inflection point for whether we can sort of flatten out this coronavirus or it's going to spike.

[1401] So now is the time to be acting.

[1402] Well, we're doing our part, Erin and I. We've gone to a public AA meeting and then we went to a public gym and then we went to Salt Lake.

[1403] Can you please be more careful?

[1404] Listen, listen, listen, first of all, shut up.

[1405] Secondly, we are spraying our hands every five seconds.

[1406] It's preposterous.

[1407] We're laughing so hard.

[1408] We're washing our hands everywhere.

[1409] We're not touching anything and we're spraying our hands.

[1410] You're not touching anything at the public gym?

[1411] Well, we're touching all the equipment, but then we're scrubbing our hands with Purell before we touch our mouths and eyes and noses.

[1412] All right.

[1413] And anuses.

[1414] Do you think you can get it anally?

[1415] Are you guys doing some anal play?

[1416] We're doing a little anal work for our sobriety.

[1417] Can I tell you something?

[1418] Because this is just reminding me. Well, first of all, I don't know if we were clear and we can be now.

[1419] We're doing a remote fact check.

[1420] I'm in the attic and Daxas in Austin.

[1421] My favorite city in the world.

[1422] Your favorite city.

[1423] And we're trying this out.

[1424] This is the first time we've ever done it.

[1425] And I miss seeing you across from me. Me too.

[1426] But this is also very fun.

[1427] Mm -hmm.

[1428] I agree.

[1429] Yeah.

[1430] I feel like we're in the future.

[1431] But when you were just talking about anal play, it reminded me of something that I wanted to talk about.

[1432] So I did something bad today.

[1433] Uh -oh.

[1434] Not involving anal play.

[1435] Oh.

[1436] I know.

[1437] I got so excited.

[1438] I went on to our podcast page, not on our website, on the Apple podcast page, because I was trying to screenshot some things to post.

[1439] And when I did that, I saw there were comments.

[1440] Oh, no, no, no, no. It was a bad idea.

[1441] No, don't ever look at comments that aren't on Instagram.

[1442] It's the only safe place.

[1443] Which big shout out to Adam from last week for that, because I guess I didn't realize that because I'm not on Twitter.

[1444] So I only see Instagram comments.

[1445] Oh, that's very misleading.

[1446] Most comments are cancer.

[1447] Which is what I received.

[1448] Yeah.

[1449] Oh, okay.

[1450] Were you specifically on Monica and Just Love Boys?

[1451] No, no. Oh, just general armchair grievances?

[1452] It was for all armchair, yeah.

[1453] Did you sort by like negative?

[1454] I didn't need to sort.

[1455] There were so many mean comments very specifically about me. What?

[1456] I mean, a lot.

[1457] A lot of lot.

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] Well, people hate smart, independent, outspoken women.

[1460] That's just a global misogyny.

[1461] Well, thank you.

[1462] for saying that.

[1463] I mean, we are, Kristen and I and Jess are watching the Hillary doc.

[1464] And whether you agree with her politics or not, that is a really fascinating documentary to watch to just see the level of patriarchy and misogyny that she's been up against her whole life.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] It's so good and heartbreaking and fantastic.

[1467] I would recommend it, but.

[1468] Well, I love the woman that brought her out on stage at one point and she basically just broke it down which is if you speak up you're bitchy and opinionated if you don't speak enough you're a pushover like she just goes through every single thing you could be and there's no real right way for women to do it yeah so i i was trying to screenshot and i saw so the first comment was something about our fact check from men's bodies and it was saying like, it was criticizing me for one, like, shaming doctors, and two.

[1469] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[1470] When did you shame doctors?

[1471] Because I was talking about my experience with my doctor, which was poor.

[1472] And I'm allowed to say that.

[1473] Sure.

[1474] Anyway.

[1475] By the way, here's my frustration with some negative comments if I can just air my grievance, which is, guess what?

[1476] I pointed that out.

[1477] So, you know, like people were mad at.

[1478] in that episode that I was saying the pressures on men are real.

[1479] Now, people interpret that as me saying they are worse, which I never said.

[1480] I don't think they're even nearly as bad as they are on women.

[1481] But I was trying to make the point that I think women drive women's insecurities and men drive men's insecurities.

[1482] And you can not agree with that.

[1483] But luckily, you disagreed with me. So did Rob.

[1484] So did Kumal.

[1485] So it's not like that voice has been stifled on our podcast.

[1486] It's, yeah.

[1487] So when people go on Instagram to make the same argument that someone already made in the room, I think, did you not hear that side of it?

[1488] Yeah, that's the whole point of this is us having a discussion and a dialogue and tossing ideas out into the world.

[1489] And, you know, they're not going to be perfect every time.

[1490] That's life.

[1491] I also, a couple of people came to our defense, or I guess my defense, not your defense.

[1492] And I appreciate it, which someone said, like, we keep asking men to be more vulnerable and be more out.

[1493] spoken about their fears and insecurities, and then the second it happens, it becomes some kind of gender war.

[1494] Right.

[1495] I know.

[1496] I know.

[1497] Again, feels like a lose -lose.

[1498] So I guess we just have to not pay attention and just keep moving forward in the way that we know is right.

[1499] Also, 99 % of the comments, at least on Instagram, are positive.

[1500] Yeah.

[1501] But yeah, so he said I was shaming doctors and that there was like poop talk or something for me. And I was like, Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[1502] The level of misogyny in that one sentence is like, I am getting shamed for poop talk when, I mean, this is why I love you, but that's 90 % of what you talk about.

[1503] Well, it's objectively a fact.

[1504] It's my main topic of thought.

[1505] Well, sex and poop.

[1506] Sure.

[1507] Yeah.

[1508] Boners, Manora, Majora, do -do.

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] your faves.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] Yeah, but the fact that I'm getting called out for that felt so absurd to me. And I read that.

[1513] That was the top comment.

[1514] And I was like, oh, man, that is rough.

[1515] And then I kept going.

[1516] And then that was so bad.

[1517] Because so many people just, they don't like the sound of my voice.

[1518] They hate my laugh, many people.

[1519] Oh, wow.

[1520] I love your laugh.

[1521] Thank you.

[1522] Some people think, like, they're like standing up for you like i'm always arguing with you yes that's the point well i like those people okay let's no no okay so those were the good comments and then we'll get back to the bad ones anyway it just really hurt my feelings i know it's hard to acknowledge this but you haven't gone through the experience of being famous and this is you're going through it and it is a learning curve and no one can you can't practice for it and you can't be above it people say mean things about you and it hurts your feelings and to think like i could tell you right now logically does anyone in your real life who knows you think that about you no not one person i'm friends with all your friends that's not a real opinion that exists with people who know you but i can easily see that but i think it it does take time to get there i don't think any human could just jump to the point where you're unaffected by that.

[1523] Right.

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] I mean, another way to look at it is they're writing about you and you're not writing about them.

[1526] So that's everything.

[1527] I mean, I hate even really even.

[1528] I like it.

[1529] I think it's vulnerable to admit you're human and that stuff bothers you.

[1530] And even that you read it.

[1531] I think a lot of people lie about it.

[1532] Oh, yeah.

[1533] I mean, I couldn't stop.

[1534] Oh, yeah.

[1535] Once you get that tasty, tasty anger.

[1536] Oh, my God.

[1537] It's such a specific feeling of.

[1538] sinking and just continuing to sink and sink and sink.

[1539] It's so true.

[1540] I know everyone who's come in here and has said it.

[1541] And exactly what you're just saying is you don't know it until you feel it.

[1542] But there, of course, were beautiful comments.

[1543] And like wonderful comments also specifically about me. And those can't compete.

[1544] They just don't.

[1545] And a lot, yeah, like people coming to my defense, which is so lovely and wonderful.

[1546] But yeah, I can read that with this like filter up of just like, okay, okay, they're saying this.

[1547] They're saying this.

[1548] But as soon as somebody says something negative, it just feels like, oh, they, I don't, I don't know.

[1549] Well, no, I can give the perfect example is that gorgeous six foot five army guy who came to two shows to express his love for you.

[1550] you are unable to accept that that could be real that that person's in love with you yet you can accept that someone hates you and it's just i think a human yeah i'll tell you the one i uh is funny is um yeah this was like seven eight years ago on twitter someone wrote this dude is just sucking off of christin bell and he you know she supports him and in my mind i was like okay well that's objectively not true.

[1551] I make plenty of money and we split everything.

[1552] But then, like four hours later, I was driving down the 101 and I found myself mounting my argument to that guy again.

[1553] And I'm like, this is objectively not true.

[1554] And yet I really feel like I need to defend it now four hours later.

[1555] It really eats at you.

[1556] And does it get easier?

[1557] Yeah.

[1558] Yeah.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] It really does.

[1561] Well, first and foremost, I do think you get really better at, like, I would never look at comments on YouTube.

[1562] I don't look at comments on Twitter.

[1563] I don't have Facebook up, but I would know better.

[1564] Instagram's the only place I'll read feedback.

[1565] And by the way, some of the feedback is critical, but it's not mean and I can accept it.

[1566] But, like, you hate my laugh.

[1567] Well, okay, let me change my laugh for you.

[1568] Yeah, I don't want to change myself, but I am, of course.

[1569] I then am editing five minutes after that.

[1570] And I'm like trying to adjust.

[1571] Don't you dare because I guarantee 99 .9 % of the people love your laugh.

[1572] And that's the problem.

[1573] You start reacting to people that don't represent anything close to consensus.

[1574] Yeah.

[1575] Also you have to remember you like you eat a good meal.

[1576] You don't call the manager over to tell them ever.

[1577] Right.

[1578] You eat a bad meal that was cold and you call them over.

[1579] It's just people aren't, you're not even.

[1580] even hearing from the masses of people who enjoy you because they don't feel compelled.

[1581] But if you've angered them, then there's a lot of motivation to be vocal.

[1582] And a lot of people are going to hate us.

[1583] Anyway, well, that was that.

[1584] Okay, Gray, good piece of housekeeping.

[1585] That's some housekeeping.

[1586] We should probably recommend Sam Harris' episode on coronavirus.

[1587] It was really, really good.

[1588] It was so good.

[1589] Newest episode, I think, or maybe two ago with Nicholas Christakis.

[1590] about coronavirus, it's really interesting and insightful.

[1591] And they break down sort of point by point.

[1592] Yeah, a lot of the points they were refuting were my points.

[1593] But that's not, they're not just your points.

[1594] There are obviously a lot of people's points or they wouldn't even be talking about it, you know.

[1595] And what I thought was generous of them is that at no point where they like, no, that's wrong and stupid.

[1596] It's just like, no, that is correct, but we do have more control over the rate at which it happens than you might think.

[1597] So, you.

[1598] Yes, everyone's probably going to get it.

[1599] But if we can control the speed...

[1600] Well, well, well, well, he did say very specifically, don't say, well, everyone's going to get it because not everyone's going to get it.

[1601] So if you go into the world being like, we're all going to get it, I'm going to get it eventually.

[1602] I might as well get it now.

[1603] Like, that's a very silly thing to think.

[1604] So he did say that specifically, I have to point out.

[1605] Yeah, yeah.

[1606] Even though I just confirmed that that person was right that all I do is argue with you.

[1607] Good.

[1608] give me a big laugh now what if you laugh like a witch i guess i would have had to tell you i probably would have had to tell you like hey buddy um you're so good at everything your laugh um well let me ask you this do you know what a witch's laugh sounds like oh my god yeah well one somebody said that the laugh was so fake which i was like if it was fake then i would have picked like i guess a better sounding one if I was deciding what the laugh was, which I don't even understand what that means, but I think I would be interested again because it wasn't me that was attacked in this certain situation.

[1609] I immediately go to, huh, what would be going on with somebody?

[1610] Yeah.

[1611] That that would trigger them.

[1612] And I'm genuinely curious.

[1613] I think it's a fun like riddle.

[1614] Like, okay, what kind of insecurity would you have where people's, let's just say you have a fake laugh.

[1615] Right.

[1616] Why, would a fake laugh bother you?

[1617] Is it that you think people are fake laughing at you?

[1618] Do you think you're not as funny as you want to be?

[1619] Do you feel like you're not good at being encouraging to people in conversations and you just wish you could have the social lubricant of a gentle, gracious laugh?

[1620] Like what would be going on that that would be a big?

[1621] Because in the gym today, oh my God, let me just unpack a little bit.

[1622] This gal I was listening to at the gym.

[1623] She was with her boyfriend and they were taking turns filming each other exercise.

[1624] And I was like, oh, I wonder if they have like an Instagram workout account or whatever.

[1625] And then she just went on this tirade about, oh, you know what?

[1626] I hate these fucking people who are at the gym and they're lifting way too much weight.

[1627] And their posture is terrible.

[1628] Their form is horrendous.

[1629] And it's like, just do it right or don't do it.

[1630] And these other guys are at the gym for three hours and they're doing a set like every 20 minutes.

[1631] and in my head, I'm like, how could all of this anger you?

[1632] Like, who gives a flying fuck about how other people work out?

[1633] And I was like, oh, she must work out with low weight so that her form is perfect.

[1634] And she's so pissed that it looks like other people are stronger, but they're not stronger because their form sucks.

[1635] I'm like, is that it?

[1636] What is going on with this person?

[1637] Because you can't be that mad that other people you don't know are doing something that has no impact on you or society.

[1638] I do.

[1639] I mean, I just think it's part of this general.

[1640] human fault that we all have, which is that we feel like negativity breeds community or something, which it doesn't.

[1641] But in some cases, Sally, I guess that's part of it when I saw on the comments.

[1642] I think that's part of what irks me about it is like, these people in some ways are winning.

[1643] But I also have to remind myself, they're also not winning in life if that is how they operate like I can't I definitely don't want to trade with them so I have to remember that yeah well let me now own something too because this could be another explanation for her so I realized that I would do this at work right I would say like oh are they here yet talking about another actor basically pointing out that they're late all the time and then I thought well why did I do that and I was like oh I did it to point out that I'm on time yeah I mean if you want to really get down to it so I think maybe that gal was in a way pointing out that she has perfect form and that she goes straight from exercise to exercise with no rest.

[1644] Like it was just a reverse way to brag maybe.

[1645] Yeah, I think everyone wants to feel like an expert in some way, you know, like that they have the keys.

[1646] They have control.

[1647] It's just maybe a way to get that.

[1648] Yes.

[1649] Now let me counteract.

[1650] And again, this should have been the first thing I said.

[1651] So before the gym, we were at an AA meeting.

[1652] And a gal came up to me and said, oh, my God, I'm at this meeting because of your podcast six months ago from listening to the podcast, I decided to come to AA.

[1653] And I was so happy.

[1654] Yeah, that's incredible.

[1655] Like, that is the whole point of this.

[1656] So the other stuff should be able to just get washed away.

[1657] Like a little duck swimming in poop.

[1658] Who are we fact -checking today?

[1659] Lennon.

[1660] Oh, Lenin Parham.

[1661] We love her.

[1662] What a catch.

[1663] What a catch.

[1664] She is.

[1665] Because in her episode, she talks about many guys who she encountered in her young life who she felt rejected by.

[1666] And I was like, God, those guys just missed out on this beautiful, wonderful soul.

[1667] Well, they did.

[1668] But what I heard is a little bit what I hear in your story, which is I, I don't.

[1669] don't know that these guys didn't want to plow her.

[1670] Well, she said she asked three people to prom and they all said it.

[1671] Well, yeah, that's rough.

[1672] But remember, she also had this story about having the guy over to study.

[1673] Oh, yeah.

[1674] Yeah, and I think she just, like, it was her lack of confidence.

[1675] I'm sure that guy would have loved to have pounded her.

[1676] Yeah, yeah.

[1677] We're all kind of self -sabotaging a little bit.

[1678] But it all makes us who we are, all of it.

[1679] Yeah, you would probably suck at this job if you had been banging.

[1680] a ton.

[1681] I probably have a much better laugh, though.

[1682] You would.

[1683] You would never talk about poop.

[1684] Never, never.

[1685] Okay.

[1686] Oh, we were talking about Matthew McConaughey, his balls.

[1687] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1688] We were talking about how many kids he has, and I said, I think, three, and he does have three.

[1689] Oh, great.

[1690] So, Lenin loved the show putting on the hits, which was an American syndicated music variety competition show hosted and written by Alan Foss.

[1691] it.

[1692] The show featured amateur acts lip syncing to popular songs.

[1693] The show aired on weekends from 1984 to 1988.

[1694] I watched a couple clips on YouTube.

[1695] It's worth doing a little Google on that.

[1696] Oh, really?

[1697] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1698] It's pretty interesting.

[1699] Doesn't that seem like something no one should be competing?

[1700] Like, doesn't it seem like everybody can lip sync?

[1701] That's my knee -jerk reaction.

[1702] Well, I wouldn't be so arrogant.

[1703] It'd be like having a contest of people dribbling a basketball standing still.

[1704] Like, okay.

[1705] Okay, but some people would be much better than others at that.

[1706] Well, but if you put them in a box where all they could do is nothing between the legs, you can't move your legs, just dribbling.

[1707] I still think there's going to be some variety.

[1708] Okay.

[1709] Maybe we should pitch this.

[1710] The big dribble.

[1711] So she said, you know, she really wanted to be on eastbound and down, but then she had a baby, so she couldn't.

[1712] But she said she thought it filmed in Wilmington.

[1713] But what I saw on the Internet was that it was filmed in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

[1714] Okay.

[1715] But maybe it was back and forth.

[1716] We can't really trust the Internet completely.

[1717] No, no. But that is what it says on the Internet.

[1718] I went a day or two to Spring Break in Myrtle Beach.

[1719] And did you enjoy it?

[1720] No, I don't think I felt cut out for that scene.

[1721] I did have one perfect spring break, which was in Cancun when I was in 11th grade.

[1722] I mean, that's one of the best weeks of my life.

[1723] But some of the other spring break experiences, I just didn't feel jacked enough and I didn't drink.

[1724] Ah.

[1725] I did drink in Cancun, but then I didn't drink in 12th grade because I was already exhibiting some issues.

[1726] Oh, yeah.

[1727] Speaking of that, so, you know, I'm on this new medication and my doctor said it was okay to drink.

[1728] I think I probably should have been more clear when I asked him.

[1729] He meant it's not going to interfere with the medication.

[1730] which it's not.

[1731] But I also had a conversation with another neurologist.

[1732] I brought up drinking again, and he said he would advise me to pretty much cut it out completely.

[1733] Why?

[1734] Because of the dehydration or something?

[1735] It can be a factor in seizures.

[1736] One, he said it excites the brain.

[1737] Two, it interrupts.

[1738] And the crotch.

[1739] Well, yeah.

[1740] It excites the whole.

[1741] bod, really.

[1742] I feel a full body tingle.

[1743] And he said that it also, which this is for sure, disrupts sleep.

[1744] And sleep is a huge element of this.

[1745] And yours in particular.

[1746] The fact that you had both seizures while asleep.

[1747] Sure, exactly.

[1748] But apparently that's like a big trigger is the sleeping stuff.

[1749] How drunk were you the night before the seizure in New York?

[1750] That's what I was trying to think.

[1751] I mean, definitely not drunk at all, but we were drinking throughout the day.

[1752] There we go.

[1753] But not a lot.

[1754] Like I had a mimosa in the morning.

[1755] At breakfast, yeah.

[1756] Go on.

[1757] Go on.

[1758] First thing up.

[1759] Brush your teeth.

[1760] No. First I had a massage and then I had a mimosa.

[1761] What if you were allergic to massage?

[1762] I kind of already, of course, had that thought.

[1763] Like, I wish I could go back in time to the first one.

[1764] What if I had a massage the day before?

[1765] What would you, well, you'd rather quit massage than drinking, right?

[1766] Yeah, both be really hard.

[1767] I love massages.

[1768] Ammosas.

[1769] God, I love mimosa.

[1770] This is horrible.

[1771] Anyway, I started off, I had a mimosa, then I had wine at lunch, and then I had wine again midday.

[1772] Great.

[1773] Well, between lunch and dinner.

[1774] Sure.

[1775] And then I had a cocktail, but I didn't finish it at dinner.

[1776] Well, and wine.

[1777] A wine and then a cocktail at dinner?

[1778] No. Only a cocktail, and I didn't even finish it.

[1779] So I had.

[1780] That's not a lot.

[1781] Five drinks?

[1782] Four, five -ish drinks throughout the whole day.

[1783] But were you not drinking water?

[1784] Were you meeting all of your thirst needs with alcohol?

[1785] I mean, if I know myself, I'd say probably.

[1786] I doubt I was drinking enough water.

[1787] And we were, like, moving around the city.

[1788] A bunch of it was also probably exerting energy.

[1789] So I probably was dehydrated.

[1790] That makes sense.

[1791] Yeah, yeah, it was an oopsie.

[1792] And, yeah, but he said I could maybe have, like, three ounces of wine and then maybe another glass of three ounces of wine, but that's, like, kind of it.

[1793] And that is no amount of alcohol.

[1794] No, that's...

[1795] That's a sip.

[1796] So I'm kind of trying to grapple with that.

[1797] A lot of things are feeling pretty out of control, I will say.

[1798] Now, if it were me, I would just be like, well, I'm just still going to drink.

[1799] Is that how you're feeling or you're really considering not drinking?

[1800] No, I'm really considering it.

[1801] Yeah.

[1802] I mean, it's not the end of the world if I have to cut it out.

[1803] It's okay.

[1804] You did.

[1805] I'd hate to see you quit.

[1806] Well.

[1807] I hate to see someone with a great relationship with it, not do it.

[1808] Well, I obviously don't have a great relationship because this, news was a little bit earth shattering sure sure yeah anyway that's all for lenin sorry if i was a bit of a downer in this no i like it i like it i like your honesty yeah the problem is people pretending that everything's perfect and then other people are hearing that and they're like hmm i i don't feel that way am i broken i would that would suck i don't know i i don't think being honest is uh has ever really long term sure that's true yeah it's a good way to live i immediately went to a pull -out joke in my head but i couldn't frame it in time all right well on that note oh man this was so fun all right bye follow armchair expert on the wondry app amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to every episode of armchair expert early and add free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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